Arctik Firangi wrote:"An Imperial Commissar watching me study xenos is surely shirking his own duties,"

Not_u wrote:Chaos can take root anywhere, he would keep watch on all in his presence. But, I digress, it's not the time to debate this. If we do it mearly gives the enemy an edge over us.

He appeared to simply be saying it wasn't the time to debate about whether or not the Commissar in question was shirking his duties - the implication being that we should discuss matters more at hand, like finding traitors.

It feels like you're taking his comment out of context.

Oh, didnt see that.

Well then:

Unvote: Not_u

But we must make a decision soon, its better to lynch anyone then no-one.

ghosty wrote:i change my opinions.

i unvote thor

and i vote LoG

Why?
If you give no reason, I will vote for your death.

In fact, vote ghosty
No reason, I think you don't care who dies, making you a genestealer.

Owain wrote:I maintain my vote for lord of ghosts. He bluntly declares his innocence, begs and grovels when cornered, and his excessive abuse of the Eldar is an overplayed attempt at appearing xenophobic when he is a xeno himself.

You act like you would kill me as if I was a xeno, I am trying to kill the REAL xenos also. I am cornered, but I think we should focus on somebody else, I am distracting your xeno-killing cause.

LoG, earlier this age, you voted for thor without a reason.

Lord-Loss wrote:LoG, earlier this age, you voted for thor without a reason.

I did?
sorry thor.

ORKEO STILL DON'T KNOW WHO ALIEN IS.

ORKEO NOT THINK JOAN OR THOR ALIEN, BOTH TOO PARANOID. ORKEO HAVE NO OTHER IDEA.

OCC: You shouldn't look too much into my lack of contribution at times. Firstly I live in a different time zone so there will be fairly big gaps at times if there are multiple people in the same time zone (diffrent from mine same for them) having a discussion. Other than that either I have nothing to say and don't feel like simply writing up random space filling crap or I'm busy as my finals actually end tomorrow.

I simply thought that restricting my voting would help with how much I change my mind at times, but I guess it was a pretty stupid idea

lord of the ghosts wrote:

Lord-Loss wrote:LoG, earlier this age, you voted for thor without a reason.

I did?
sorry thor.

That was due to an error on my part, remember?

In these last desperate few hours, I really must insist that we put an end to petty matters of "you voted for me, you're a traitor". It is an idiotic line of argument, and anyone who continues, without further justification, to do so is being a deliberate distraction.

OOC: Just a notification; I'll be leaving for Thanksgiving on Tuesday night and may not have Internet access while I'm there-- If not, I'll be back on Sunday at the very latest.

Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:

lord of the ghosts wrote:

Lord-Loss wrote:LoG, earlier this age, you voted for thor without a reason.

I did?
sorry thor.

That was due to an error on my part, remember?

((OOC my recorded vote on him was due to your error - his vote on me was an actual one. I hold no grudges in any way shape or form, of course. This is a game and people will vote for other people - that's part of it. I will note lotg, that Lord-Loss might not have been seeking an apology for me, but perhaps more of an explanation from you.))

::scoops out a fresh wad of chaw and inserts it into his mouth and sighs deeply as he begins to chew.:: We are starting to get closer to the deadline and I don't see much activity in the Sister Joan area. This is probably my fault for not managing to properly or clearly convey how scummy I feel her actions have and continue to be. However I will admit I am at a loss as to what else to say and no one has asked for any clarification on my thoughts either - so I presume you all feel I'm grasping at straws or somesuch. As we approach our deadline it becomes fairly clear that I'm not going to manage to convince any sort of plurality of you to vote for her. Since I feel a no lynch is our worst possible vote choice I feel it's important at this juncture to take steps to assure that we at least lynch somebody even if it's not who I think is most guilty.

The two available candidates with any particular traction are lotg (4 votes) and n0t_u (1 vote). (My vote on Sister Joan has garnered no support, and since I know I'm innocent I have little interest in supporting the vote on me). Though I managed to talk Lord-Loss out of his vote for n0t_u I am hardly convinced of n0t_u's innocence. Also, in the most simplistic sense, though I don't particularly think n0t_u is overly scummy I do think he is more scummy looking then lotg.

Unvote
Vote: n0t_u

For the record I am not happy with my vote. To be honest if anybody else wanted to vote for the Sister ((Manchu)) or someone who never bothers to explain their vote but often hops on active seeming lynch targets ((ghosty)) I will happily back that play as I feel those I have listed are more likely to be scum then n0t_u. But, due to the lack of voting and the fact I feel lotg is less scummy than n0t_u that is where my vote is going for the nonce.

We really need to get some votes on the table and hopefully some final discussion soon.

Owain wrote:OOC: Just a notification; I'll be leaving for Thanksgiving on Tuesday night and may not have Internet access while I'm there-- If not, I'll be back on Sunday at the very latest.

((OOC - enjoy the feasting upon various foodstuffs whilst you are gone.

But, with your departure are you comfortable and confident with your vote on lotg as the most likely scum? In my assessment we have seen a paucity of true evidence for that particular bandwagon.))

((Re-reading I realized that lotg has a vote on ghosty that came in after Drk_O's last count - therefore))

Unvote
Vote: Ghosty

nevermind.

lord of the ghosts wrote:Why thor?
This is why I voted for ghosty.

My vote is for half of your stated reasons. You cited his lack of explanations - which is true. I've asked him on a few occasions to explain or discuss his logic for a vote and he's never deemed it worthy to reply. However, as I noted above, I would add that he often zips in with his vote after one or two other people have leveled accusations against the person he's voting for. It just seems potentially opportunistic - as though he's attempting to help a lynch happen without having to sweat the detail work. He might simply be a lazy loyalist, but the pattern seems reasonable to suspect that he also might be a heretic hoping to fly slightly under the radar. Because of that I feel he looks like the most scummy of any of the people with votes (that are not my vote) on them.

lord of the ghosts wrote:I might change my vote.

That is up to you and at the moment has no particular bearing on my vote.

Thor665 wrote:
He might simply be a lazy loyalist, but the pattern seems reasonable to suspect that he also might be a heretic hoping to fly slightly under the radar.

If he is a loaylist, he is too lazy to care about other's lives.
But he is a heretic.

lord of the ghosts wrote:If he is a loaylist, he is too lazy to care about other's lives.
But he is a heretic.

If you're that sure of his guilt why would you discuss the possibility of changing your vote?

Just to reiterate, I don't Thor's reasoning is petty. It's suspicious to me, but I think I understand his strategy.

Manchu wrote:Just to reiterate, I don't Thor's reasoning is petty. It's suspicious to me, but I think I understand his strategy.

Though I dispute where your logic takes that strategy and turns me into a traitor.

Since we are near to deadline now and since you have agreed that any lynch is superior to no lynch you're not helping by simply voting and sitting on a bandwagon with no traction. You could at least be working to convince others to vote for me as opposed to sitting quietly on your vote.

Let me blunt. If you want a lynch, we could both switch our votes to LotG. I have moderate suspicions of his actions but they are somewhat related to my suspicions of you. If you voted for him, I would feel reassured about your intentions generally. As you have said, LotG could just be all over the place but (OOC: he's done it before to poor effect and surely learned a lesson from that) I wonder if it isn't an act to distract us from more sinister leanings. As I said, if you vote for LotG then I will, too, and you'll have your lynch.

OOC: The deadline is in three or four days (Not sure how long I forgot alot ) we need to decide very SOON.

I honestly believe that Lynching LoG, would be better then no lynch.

Manchu wrote:As I said, if you vote for LotG then I will, too, and you'll have your lynch.

Says the woman who accuses me of trying to control votes. I do want a lynch - I see no reason to make a deal with you in this situation to achieve a lynch I feel is an inferior lynch. I have openly stated my beliefs as to when a lotg vote will be a good one and have openly stated why I am currently voting ghosty and what will make me vote lotg. Nothing has happened to change those beliefs thus far and I will stand by them until such happens.

@Lord-Loss - I agree, we do need to decide soon. You requesting that we decide "SOON" while not currently voting for someone seems counter-intuitive though. I would advocate putting your vote on either the person you feel is most guilty and loudly proclaiming why that is so - or to put it on a person who currently has some votes who is the most guilty seeming of all those currently being voted for. Both actions are more proactive to your stated goal.

I also feel LotG is an inferior lynch. I was merely responding to your criticism, which seemed aimed at making me appear that I was basically voting no lynch by voting you. (A very convenient interpretation, I might add.) It seems you are the only one who is allowed to be stubborn? I have stated the reasons for voting for you and am not willing to jump down everyone else's throats to convince them like you want (hence my vote against you). Everyone knows how I feel about this, no need to badger them. For the sake of being realistic and getting a lynch--which we all agree is a benefit those of us who are citizens--I offer the aforementioned compromise.

Thor665 wrote:

lord of the ghosts wrote:If he is a loaylist, he is too lazy to care about other's lives.
But he is a heretic.

If you're that sure of his guilt why would you discuss the possibility of changing your vote?

You started the possiblity of changing my vote as a threat to you, giveing a possible slip-up saying that you are a heretic.
If my death comes soon, I shall laugh at lord-loss for killing a loylist.

I will note that I have taken a proactive step to avoid a no lynch situation that does not entail trying to work deals with other people (i.e. you vote for them and I'll do this). I encouraged you to do the same as, because of aforementioned reasons that I have changed my own vote, I do feel sitting on a vote that will accomplish nothing is not too helpful to the town. Your opinion may vary but I am doing nothing hypocritical. I am critical of you choosing to stay on that vote with zero proactive action either to get me lynched or to seek avoidance of a no lynch situation.

I do not think you can take the moral high ground of 'I'm not jumping down throats and will keep my vote on the most guilty person while avoiding loose lips' if at the same time you're trying to offer a deal to me to try and lynch lotg, a person you *agree* isn't the best lynch option.

If you offer was truly as honest as you wish to make it seem I submit you would have changed your vote already and then asked me to follow suit. You did not do this for reasons that are certainly your own but which appear scummy to me.

Since you agree with me that lotg is a sub-optimal lynch maybe you want to consider ghosty or n0t_u? I'm voting ghosty for reasons already stated and would much rather lynch him then lotg.

lord of the ghosts wrote:

Thor665 wrote:If you're that sure of his guilt why would you discuss the possibility of changing your vote?

You started the possiblity of changing my vote as a threat to you, giveing a possible slip-up saying that you are a heretic.

((OOC - I've got to be honest with you, lotg, I have no idea what you're saying here.))

Thor665 wrote:

lord of the ghosts wrote:

Thor665 wrote:If you're that sure of his guilt why would you discuss the possibility of changing your vote?

You started the possiblity of changing my vote as a threat to you, giveing a possible slip-up saying that you are a heretic.

((OOC - I've got to be honest with you, lotg, I have no idea what you're saying here.))

{OOC: mostly everybody doesn't}

lord of the ghosts wrote:

Thor665 wrote:

lord of the ghosts wrote:

Thor665 wrote:If you're that sure of his guilt why would you discuss the possibility of changing your vote?

You started the possiblity of changing my vote as a threat to you, giveing a possible slip-up saying that you are a heretic.

((OOC - I've got to be honest with you, lotg, I have no idea what you're saying here.))

{OOC: mostly everybody doesn't}

[OOC: Then mostly STFU]

Unvote: n0t_u

Vote: Ghosty

[The hour grows late, and I'm jumping on the ghost-train. Anyone else coming?]

"Ghosty has contributed little, which can actually be interpreted as somewhat suspicious in itself, especially due to the fact that his lynch-follows constitute the better part of his contributions overall."

I would vote for him as he does indeed seem to be suspicious. But, also the votes for him only started after LoG voted for him because Ghosty voted for LoG without any reason to it. At the moment he has three votes and we have two days until the first day phase is finished. Just seemed to stand out to me for some reason.

Although LoG still seems suspicious to me, Ghosty's silence seems even more so; causually cruising by hoping to be unoticed. But this raises another problem. If he is doing it as a way of not getting lynched, is he a traitor or an important loyalist character? We don't know who he is trying to avoid. When this is cleared up a little bit I'll think about changing my vote to him. As I have rejected my idiotic idea of restricting my votes a few posts after I thought of it

n0t_u wrote:I would vote for him as he does indeed seem to be suspicious. But, also the votes for him only started after LoG voted for him because Ghosty voted for LoG without any reason to it. At the moment he has three votes and we have two days until the first day phase is finished. Just seemed to stand out to me for some reason.

Although LoG still seems suspicious to me, Ghosty's silence seems even more so; causually cruising by hoping to be unoticed. But this raises another problem. If he is doing it as a way of not getting lynched, is he a traitor or an important loyalist character? We don't know who he is trying to avoid. When this is cleared up a little bit I'll think about changing my vote to him. As I have rejected my idiotic idea of restricting my votes a few posts after I thought of it

{OOC: If there was a robbery on dakka, I'd be the first to be questioned. }

n0t_u wrote:When this is cleared up a little bit I'll think about changing my vote to him.

There is no true way to clear that up except in your own mind. I submit his desire to hop onto whatever lynch wagon seemed to have the most steam suggest less of a likelihood of him being loyalist then it does him being scum. You have to draw your own conclusions as there is no way to guarantee at this point.

(OOC:No you wouldnt your not smart enough to rob something)

LoG is now constantly confusing people, he's been suspicous earlier in the game and he he been taking things out of context alot.

Vote: LoG

Lord-Loss wrote:(OOC:No you wouldnt your not smart enough to rob something)

LoG is now constantly confusing people, he's been suspicous earlier in the game and he he been taking things out of context alot.

Vote: LoG

{OOC: I wouldn't rob anything, I would just be so flakey that everyone will think it would be me, but you are right.}
Yet, no one understnds me, but they have to try. I realy am not trieing to confuse MOST people. Just the ones I think are genestealers.

lord of the ghosts wrote:Yet, no one understnds me, but they have to try.

Communication is a two way street last I checked. ::spits on floor.:: Now that Lord-Loss has put you at L-1 (1 vote away from being lynched) do you have anything to say to perhaps clarify why you shouldn't be lynched?

Thor665 wrote:

lord of the ghosts wrote:Yet, no one understnds me, but they have to try.

Communication is a two way street last I checked. ::spits on floor.:: Now that Lord-Loss has put you at L-1 (1 vote away from being lynched) do you have anything to say to perhaps clarify why you shouldn't be lynched?

No, I can't think of anything. Lord-loss will regret it.
Manchu DO NOT THINK ABOUT voting FOR ME!!
OR ULATRAFOOL!!!
OR ANYONE ELSE!!!

LoG, take some time and think up a reason for you childish and silly actions.

(OOC: Arctik, ghosty has some good reasons why he isn't posting often which he explained to me previously)

24 hours remain in day phase one (roughly)

Lord-Loss wrote:LoG, take some time and think up a reason for you childish and silly actions.

{OOC: but I am under 16!!}

Actually now that you mention it Ultrafool kind of disappeared right after this on page 11 roughly 10 days ago:

Thor665 wrote:

Ultrafool wrote:No one has a clear thought on who to vote for.

How about you then simply express perhaps who you would vote for if you had to vote ((OOC - to prevent a deadline no lynch))

Or maybe you could offer up some thoughts about what you'd like to see happen to make a vote from you more reasonable. Certainly if you're unsure who to vote for it might behoove you to try and ask a few questions or put some pressure on someone to see if they appear more or less guilty via their reactions to you.

Also a few pages back Ghosty explained his lack of posts:

ghosty wrote:ooc: sorry ive been having real life difficulties. stuff that really sucks. and exams. sorry :(

LoG does seem to be acting suspiciously.... i mean, hes penalised everyone by his actions..

This makes Ghosty seem less suspicious to me and makes Ultrafool look more likely to be a traitor. Even look at Drkys last vote count. Out of date now, but both of the non-voters have still not cast their vote yet.

Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:Voting Count

-Ultrafool (-)
-Orkeosaurus (-)
1-Thor665 ( Manchu)
-Arctik_Firangi (-)
1-Manchu ( Thor665)
-Lord-Loss (-)
1-n0t_u (Lord-Loss, Arctik_Firangi)
-Ghosty (-)
-Mekboy (-)
4-Lord of Ghosts- (ghosty, Owain, Orkeosaurus, n0t_u)
-Owain (-)

No Lynch-
Not Voting- Ultrafool, Mekkboy

6 to lynch
96 hours remaining

Two people do not want to vote and that is not suspicious, why? LoG is childish, Ghosty has exams. But a traitor might want a no vote so as to lower the chance of being removed early on. A no vote gets the loyalists nowhere, therefore I would change my vote from LoG to Ultrafool. But, it is very likely that it is too late and will just end up giving the traitors the no vote they want. We still have a day left, hopefully that's enough time for everyone to see this and have a last good think about their votes before the day is finished. Besides if Ghosty was suspicious because of his lack of votes, by that logic wouldn't Ultrafool seem even more so given the fact that he currently hasn't voted and the last post that made him vanish. Either he was scared off by Thor, or Thor asked the right question to the right person but failed to really follow through.

Unvote
Vote: Ultrafool
If it gets to close to the deadline though and a no lynch is likely I will change my vote back, LoG is still suspicious just not the most at the moment.

I forgive ghosty.
Unvote
BUT a genesteeler would be more active in the game. Still no vote isn't good this late in the day.
Vote:Ultrafool 20% chance of him being a traitor + suspension, so about 25%
{OOC:BUT I ARE A CHILD!!!}

Unvote: Ghosty

Vote: Lord of the Ghosts

"This is ridiculous. We have no strong evidence against anyone that is likely going to get lynched today, so I can only see one feasible option. His distraction is too painful to bear."

((OOC - lots of meta game babble in this post and I don't think I edited it all into OOC quotes so this is an early apology for that. Also, to all the players I sort of needle for not posting - there is no personal hurt on my end. It's just a rational breakdown of what does or does not serve the loyalist faction and inactivity or abbreviated votes do not. I am certain you have good reasons and do not presume to suggest you overlook RL issues for a game. Hopefully this will excuse any perceived rudeness that comes across from me in this post, and if not I do apologize because I'm not trying to be impolite I just couldn't think of a way to phrase what I felt needed to be said in any nicer terms.))

n0t_u wrote:if Ghosty was suspicious because of his lack of votes, by that logic wouldn't Ultrafool seem even more so given the fact that he currently hasn't voted and the last post that made him vanish. Either he was scared off by Thor, or Thor asked the right question to the right person but failed to really follow through.

ghosty is suspicious because of when and how he votes and with what lack of explanation. Not because he hasn't voted. Not voting is an anti-Imperium action in my mind but is not a guaranteed scum tell. (also, both Mekboy and Ultrafool certainly appear to have a habit of spotty posting in these games even when playing loyalists.) For the record I don't think Ultrafool was scared off - I think he just stopped posting. that said, just in case we don't lynch either of them;

Requesting prod on Ultrafool
Requesting prod on Mekboy

((OOC - Holidays aside they should have told us if they weren't going to post for 10+ days. If they can't post a bit more regularly it would behoove us to have Drk_O replace them with players who'd be able to participate more regularly))

If it gets to close to the deadline though and a no lynch is likely I will change my vote back, LoG is still suspicious just not the most at the moment.

Good, if it comes down to it I will certainly join you in that action to assure at least a lynch, even a sub-par lynch that I feel is pretty much an assured loyalist. I do still submit ghosty has had more obvious anti-Imperium actions by choosing to vote without explaining why and always choosing to vote for whomever seems the most likely wagon at any given time. ((OOC - I am sure he has reasons that make it hard to post often, but that doesn't excuse him from posting information when he does post. If it's too exhausting to do that he should probably ask for a replacement. Since he hasn't I have to presume his reasons for not posting deeper thoughts and always going with the flow are either because he's scum or he considers it too much work to do so (or perhaps that it's totally unneeded). In either case he is more dangerous to us then someone who just isn't posting in my opinion.))

lord of the ghosts wrote:20% chance of him being a traitor + suspension, so about 25%

Your concept of math and probability makes my brain cry. ((OOC - also, please stop screaming repeatedly about your age. Fifteen is more then old enough to be able to manage an internet chat game. If you just want out of the game or legitimately believe your age prevents you from playing it properly you can always ask to be replaced. If you want to stay in the game you owe it to your fellow players to actually play the game without random excuses.))

Arctik_Firangi wrote:"This is ridiculous. We have no strong evidence against anyone that is likely going to get lynched today, so I can only see one feasible option. His distraction is too painful to bear."

::The old hiver drops into a sitting position and toys with some scar tissue on his forearm.::
Can't fault your frustration, if something doesn't shift soon I'll join you in that vote ((OOC - since I'll be quite useless Thursday if no worthwhile shifts happen tomorrow morning I'll put my vote on lotg at around noon EST. I do believe that will put him back at L-1 (we had two people stop voting him and then Arctik went and voted for him, yes?) After that we can maybe afford a bit of conversation, but someone should definitely be able to verify they can show up to drop the hammer before deadline.))

OCC: Don't forget Drky is in Australia so it will be around 14-15 hours ahead of American time. Hopefully he'll finish this on the 27th over here that way over there you get the full 26th.


Also I didn't know that Ultrafool and Mekboy have spotty posting habits in these types of games, but it still looks suspicious to me. Ghosty and the others that have been unable to post have at least given a reason for it. If Ultrafool had left a reason for his absense in this thread then it wouldn't have seemed as suspicious when he vanished. Drky said that he will prod every three days with a weekend counting as one day so he has at least been prodded twice already. On second thoughts he might just be gone for a good reason, I checked his posts and the one he made last here turns out to have been the most recent post that he has made on Dakka. It doesn't seem like he is avoiding any attention. It looks more like something important has come up and kept him away from Dakka instead. Thus, Mekboy's lack of voting seems more suspicious now, but he could also just be waiting for a last minute vote. At least Ultrafool seems to have an excuse though. I actually thought I had found one of the traitors as well

UNVOTE: Ultrafool

So Mekboy any reason why you haven't voted yet? Indecisiveness aside there should at least be a few people you might want to vote for. We shouldn't lynch LoG yet until we are certain or run out of time.

((OOC - we do get the full 26th, but since it's Thanksgiving don't expect me to post or if I do post to be fully functional considering the amount of turducken I will have eaten))

Vote lord of the ghosts

That puts him back at L-1 which will enable us to vote for his lynch when we need to. I don't forsee us managing to lynch anyone else today.

Are you accepting my deal or just making sure we have an option?

I reckon Thor's doing a bit of both, we now have the option to lynch someone, but he has somehow gained your trust.

Not trust. He has accused me of basically stalling the lynch and so I offered to switch my vote to LotG if he did because it had seemed to me that he was formerly protecting LotG. Now he has switched so I want confirmation that I should cast the lynching vote from him now so he cannot shift his accusations again, this time to me bandwagonning LotG or otherwise criticize me for casting the last vote.

((OOC - page 12, My 6th post (right after Arctik and I use a laughing emoticon) I outlined how I would do exactly what I am doing *long before* you ever made any offers of a deal with me. I am acting this way for reasons I stated in that post))

::Spits towards the Sister:: I am making no deal with you. I do think you're stalling and I do think your offer is more scummy seeming then a pit full o' plague zombies.

Make whatever vote you wish and justify it however you wish - but don't claim it's because we came to an understanding. I still think you're the most scummy person here.

It seems to me that you've just exposed yourself for the scum you are--and according to your own logic, no less. You've criticized everyone--me most recently--for voting a second-choice lynch and now here you are doing it. Not only are you doing something that you yourself have said is scummy in others, you're doing it for the same reasons that underpin my offer--which you just called "more scummy seeming then a pit full o' plague zombies"! The fact that you had it planned from pages ago doesn't make it any better. Of course you had a plan all along, as I've been saying all along.

This move against LotG when you formerly protected him and overlooked in him what you severely criticized in others is, to use your own words, the scummiest action yet. By convincing everyone to use LotG as traitor-bait, you hope to pin the blame on whoever fulfills your plan by finally doing him in.

I'm now convinced LotG is innocent by virtue of Thor's tossing him under the skimmer. I'll take it all back if the group kills LotG and he turns out to be a heretic. But, religious vows aside, I'd bet a fistful of creds that LotG turns out innocent and we'll have an indictment written in his blood against Thor once and for all.

I urge everyone to consider Thor's actions in this light. Vote for him now or let an innocent die to prove that you should vote for him tomorrow.

That makes no sense whatsoever.

I have explained why I believe lynching someone is preferable to no one. Other people (yourself included) have agreed with this logic that a lynch is better then no lynch. I have also worked very hard to try to lynch anyone but lotg.

OOC: sorry for lack of posting, but its a bit difficult to stay in my house at the moment. stuffs getting steadily worse :( really sorry.

Hmmm what if knowone was lynched? surely in the mornig their would be a body count? risky, but we would be able to determine whom it was

How would you determine who had killed the dead person? There's no real way to do so - therefore it behooves us to try and lynch them which at least gives us random odds of catching them or slightly better then random odds if we can spot suspicious behavior.

Thor665 wrote:
Requesting prod on Ultrafool
Requesting prod on Mekboy

I prodded Ultrafool 4 days ago to which I have had no reply. I'll send a PM to the player I was going to introduce at the beginning of Day Phase 2 to replace him momentarily

(OOC: Also I'd like to apologise to those who I have prodded so far, as I have made a mistake with the PMs where I have said

Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:It has been brought it to my attention that you haven't posted since November 8th.

This is incorrect due to some of you posting after November 8th. I got lazy and copy-pasted the first prod I sent out. However, this shouldn't happen again)

pg#15=+=Voting Count

1-Ultrafool (lord of the ghosts,)
-Orkeosaurus (-)
1-Thor665 ( Manchu)
-Arctik_Firangi (-)
-Manchu (-)
-Lord-Loss (-)
-n0t_u (-)
1-Ghosty (lord of the ghosts)
-Mekboy (-)
6-Lord of Ghosts- (ghosty, Owain, Orkeosaurus, Lord-Loss, , Arctik Firangi, Thor665)
-Owain (-)

No Lynch-
Not Voting- Ultrafool, Mekkboy

6 to lynch

With Thor665's vote it's been decided, I'll put the story post up in a moment.

ghosty, Owain, Orkeosaurus, Lord-Loss, Arctik Firangi and Thor665 all slowly approched the traitor.

Metal Pipes in hand, head throbbing from the techno.

The light flickers. The Eldar smirks.

In a moment, it was over, and lord of the ghosts fell to the ground.

On his body you find the broken remains of his techno, upon closer inspection it was playing a song entitled "Techno for the Emperor (BURNTHEHERETIC remix by CREEEEEEEEEED)"

lord of the ghosts was an imperial citizen

Night Phase 1 starts now, and due to the holiday, It'll finish on the 30th or after all Night Activites are finished.

Also, during the night phase, you can offer to make deals with the Eldar by PMing me. I won't PM you back whether I accept or not, and it shall be known at the start of Day Phase 2. These PM's don't count as Night Activites, so if you don't send me them in time then they won't happen. Also, you can still PM me if you still want the bolt pistol.

A nightmare haunts those who killed lotg.
As I said, I had psker powers to an limit,
I have learned the warp scream, and have converted it into techno. Enjoy.
You have been forever cursed with techno, heretics.
HAHAHAHAHAA

We'll get them next time.

Also LoG when you said you had psyker powers, did that mean that you were the loyalist special character that's able to figure if someone is a traitor? If you are this is a pretty big loss for the loyalists.

EDIT: Don't worry I just had a stupid moment
Drky already said that he was a citizen

Sorry I haven't been posting. I've had several exams. The reason I didn't vote was because:
A. I wasn't here.
and
B. I wanted to be sure, andso was going to wait till the end of today.

EDIT: Oops, night.

=======End Of Night One=======

You all wake up, suprisingly at the same time. Even more of a surprise, the Eldar is laughing, and laughing and laughing.

"Wow, looks like things are going alot faster than I thought" laughed the Eldar

You look around, everyone seems to be there (including lord of the ghosts, who is still dead, but no one has bothered to move him yet) except for two people. Orkeosaurus and Thor665 are missing. After a small search, you find them both in the same place. Thor665 had been torn into shreds in what could politely be called as a big mess. Orkeo was next to Thor, claws extended from his big Orgyn hands. He has a nice, clean, almost surgical cut along his neck.

Thor665 was an Imperium Sanctioned Psyker
Orkeosaurus was a Genestealer

The Eldar is still laughing, almost hysterically, when you come back.



======Dawn of Day Phase 2=======
---504 hours remain---


Aliving
1. typhus
2. Arctik_Firangi
3. Manchu
4. Lord-Loss
5. n0t_u
6. Ghosty
7. Mekboy
8. Owain

With 8 alive it requires 5 to lynch.

How do we know Orkeo a genestealer?

Is that what a pysker does?

When someone dies you automatically find out what they were.

EDIT: At least, I think so.

WTF?? Rules clarification is pretty necessary at this point.

Oh, we must have a serial killer onboard.

::Looks around suspicously::

[Edit]

((OOC - I shall now take my obligatory bah post.

Bah!

Good luck to all sides involved, I hope you can achieve your wins!))

Preliminary warning post:

Textwall to follow.

:: Firangi opens his tome and solemnly begins to enscribe the notable things that the fallen Lord of the Ghosts achieved in life... two seconds later he concludes with 'died'. Striding over to Thor and Orkeo, he closes open eyelids and takes down identification numbers. After a minute he stands, a dour expression upon his face::

"That was unfortunate, but likewise, his distraction was as I stated - unbearable. I'm sure that those who would betray us were glad to have him diverting our attention. The loss of the Psyker was a blow as well... who can say to what degree he could have aided us? I am surprised that my first guess at a potential traitor - the ogryn - indeed turned out to be one. I am quite confident now. My companions, if we can return focused to the matter at hand, I have been compiling the voice logs I collected yesterday. "

Manchu wrote:L-L, I find that proposal utterly repugnant. I have hypothesized since we found Smash dead that any traitors among us would work with the xenos. The correlating hypothesis is that the xenos would work with the traitors. Only in a traitor will the alien find an ally among Emperor-fearing citizens. Every loyal and faithful human, conversely, fights nausea just to gaze upon these creatures. We certainly know that it is total folly to heed the lies of an alien. This thing, may it yet be smote upon Holy Terra, knows it's only chance to survive is to cooperate in the murder of its loyal, human captors. The best strategy for it is to ally at least temporarily with any treacherous elements among us.

"Here we see one of many examples of our Sister Joan commenting on the xenos witch. I understand that one of her background would be incapable of recognising nobility in an alien, but truly we have no actual reason to distrust it. If there is an influence it has brought upon us thus far, it has been entropy, but only insofar as it has not been forthcoming with helpful information. It did, however, mention a weapon in our midst..."

Lord-Loss wrote:Well If you let me have it, then we will kill a traitor.

You will be amused and not bored by our endless squabbaling.

Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:"But how do you know the person you'd kill be a traitor?" said the Eldar, rasining an eyebrow

Lord-Loss wrote:When you vote for someone you believe there a traitor. So I believe Thor to be a traitor.

"...which our companion Lord-Loss was immediately eager to set his hands upon. Now I understand the fear that is rightly lurking in our hearts... for on this vessel, on our mission, this Good work in the name of humanity, we are beset by treacherous foes. What better than a gun by which to defend thyself? Who would be seen as unreasonable to wish to take it up? Perhaps none... but Lord-Loss also claimed that he would kill a traitor, and I must wonder from whence he gathers such assurance..."

Lord-Loss wrote:Thus I believe that the Bolt Pistol should come into the possession of a more sensible fellow.

Thor is too hot headed, LoG is too unpredicatable, Orkeo is too......special and Owain is not involved enough in the investigation.

So that leaves, me, Joan ((Manchu)) and Arctik_Firangi.

"This little circle strikes me as odd... partially because I am in it. I find the accusation that Thor has been hot-headed very strange, considering the pistol-related comments that immediately preceeded it. Thor is fallen - his manner was crude but his tactics are infallible... he had been actively opposed to Joan, however. I am interested to see that neither our good sister, nor Lord-Loss have seen fault in each other thus far, and it is for these initial reasons that I do not trust either of them."

Manchu wrote:@Thor
"Your hastiness is rather damning," Joan replies without anger, "especially considering that I did explain my 'methods' . . . by which I suppose you mean my formal training in the subtleties of diplomacy and intrigue as a sister of Order Famulous."

She sighs.

"As much as I would like to believe that you are merely a simple-minded layman ham-handedly playing at being an Inquisitor, your desperately attempts to throw suspicion on anyone and everyone else is the most suspicious thing I have witnessed so far. I suppose we will see."

"It is true that our Sister has composed herself well - she did not even see fit to vote constructively yesterday... but less can be said of Lord-Loss. He has acted hastily, and brought much suspicion on himself... if I may quote myself..."

Arctik_Firangi wrote:"Other ships?" Arctik asks incredulously; "What in the Warp are you talking about?"

Turning to Lord-Loss; "I have three other minor reasons to suspect you. Unless you are suffering from an attention disorder, you have not bothered to defend yourself properly until I specifically asked you. Secondly, you seem to have trouble describing yourself... you have given us more than one story about your background, neither of which you have really followed up. This may be an internal personality conflict, or you may be suffering brain damage. The other reason involves another on this ship, and I do not wish to bring up this subject at the present time based on the fact that I am only speculating."

"The 'another on this ship' that I mentioned at the time was none other than Joan, and I am now more convinced than ever that these two are in league. Several times yesterday our sister saw cause to rebuke his actions... where she would normally cast suspicion on hints of rash behaviour. I will make yesterday's vox-recordings available to everyone... see for yourselves how often they speak directly to one another. I believe that Lord-Loss is truly the henchman in this situation, which is why I believe that Joan must die first."

Lord-Loss wrote:He votes for me cause I believe the Eldar that there are two traitors. But then votes for LoG cause the Eldar said something......

"Lord-Loss, please quote when we were told that there are two traitors."

Lord-Loss wrote:Idea's are Idea's that why there are ideas.

If I had some evidence it would be a theory, but using an idea as a reason to lynch someone, thats just wrong.

Bullying is bad, your trying to force people to vote too quickly. While just four posts ago you asked people to slow down and think before voting (Even after some explained there votes with logic)

"Lord Loss, please explain how this logic ties in with your voiced intent when the option of a deadly weapon was offered? I put it to you that you were trying to emulate Joan's strategy, yet you are personally incapable of controlling your headstrong attitude."

Lord-Loss wrote:

lord of the ghosts wrote:I say we should kill somebody who wants a bolter, as they know who is a xenos, and will kill anybody.

::Sigh::
Thats silly and a very bad idea.

"Ha! You should certainly think so... and I shall say no more..."


Vote: Manchu

Lord-Loss wrote:Oh, we must have a serial killer onboard.

::Looks around suspicously::

Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:Thor665 had been torn into shreds in what could politely be called as a big mess. Orkeo was next to Thor, claws extended from his big Orgyn hands. He has a nice, clean, almost surgical cut along his neck.

Thor665 was an Imperium Sanctioned Psyker
Orkeosaurus was a Genestealer

To me it sounds like the loyalists have a very lucky assassin. Whoever it is good job that's one less threat to worry about.

There was only one Genestealler attack, meaning that the other traitors are likely to be someone that hasn't been around lately to pm drky who they were going to kill. That probably leaves us with Ultrafool, Owain and possibly Mekboy . I think it's probably one of those three, but that's just based on their general disappearence around the time of the night phase. Owain said he would be away for a bit, Ultrafool just disappeared. If there was only one Genestealler attack and we haven't won it's likely that its either one of them or both of them. I belive that Manchu is actually an Inquisitor, but that's just what I think. We still have no idea if anyone has taken the bolt pistol or even who has if it's gone, we'll have to watch out for that.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:"Thor is fallen - his manner was crude but his tactics are infallible... he had been actively opposed to Joan, however.

Thor's manner was not crude and his tactics were far from infallible. The fact that you are adopting those same tactics is extremely interesting to me, however, and the way that you are labeling them as infallible is the most interesting point of all. Let me explain why before moving on to your other comments.

Here are the facts and my conclusions so far (let everyone see exactly how I am thinking about this):

- Thor suspected me more than anyone else. Even when he voted for another to die, he still made it clear to everyone that I was his primary suspect.

- His logic was extremely shaky and no one else was convinced. No other person voted for me for the reasons that Thor laid out.

- Thor is now dead and it turns out that he was a loyal citizen.

- Since Thor and I disagreed more vocally than any other two people, I would be the most natural suspect to have murdered him.

- But I know that I didn't murder him.

- Therefore I am being framed by the person who really did murder him.

- The person who really did murder him would look for other ways to make the frame look more plausible.

- A great way to do that would be to say that Thor knew all along who was going to kill him--namely me.

- The real murderer had no reason to try and lynch me on day one since I didn't have enough votes against me at any point to be an easy kill.

- The real murder would have been a bandwagon killer, voting not at the very last minute but close enough to prime the kill, waiting for a real innocent to take the fall.

- I thought that Thor was trying to do that to me--which is why I wasn't going to vote LotG unless I had a public deal with Thor so he couldn't blame a bandwagon kill on me later or claim--as Arctik Firangi already has today--that I "did not even see fit to vote constructively."

- Turns out that someone betrayed Thor in the way that I thought he would betray me. That person was Arctik.

- The real murderer would also want to make me look guilty by playing up Thor's accusations of me before his death, reminding everyone that we argued a lot so that it would look like I had the greatest motive to kill him.

- The real murder would therefore claim that Thor's methods were the most reliable.

- Arctik now calls Thor's method's infallible when he didn't find them convincing enough to support yesterday.

- As I've said: Only a traitor would work with the perfidious alien. Only a trader would want a weapon that would deprive us of the chance to think, discuss, and vote carefully--or at last as a safety to kill as many of us as possible before he is caught. Arctik both defends the xenos witch and wants to use the bolter.

I do not care if this looks like vendetta voting. I held back from voting too much yesterday and made a bad decision to focus on Thor when I should have been looking more closely elsewhere. Unfortunate as it is, the loyal citizen Thor is dead. But he can no longer distract me from paying attention to the facts.

Vote: Arctik Firangi

Let him try to run some distraction regarding Lord-Loss and I working together. I challenge him to post the evidence. I've made my decision, until Arctik can refute my conclusions above, but I think you should consider the points I've made very carefully before getting sucked into this sideshow cover-up Arctik is trying to pull.

Wow... That was awesome Manchu

Watch out, n0t_u, Artick will say we are working together.

Well at the moment I'm still staying with the three suspicious people I pointed out. I'll think about it a fair bit more then vote. But, both of you have a good points against the other. Artick's though seems to be going on about Lord-Loss for a fair while before somehow making it turn out that he is just a puppet. We only had one Genestealler attack, does no one find that suspicious in itself. The Genestealler was found dead next to Thor, Drky hasn't said if killing a Genestealler duing the night phase will cancel out it's kill. Therefore I think that Orkeo was actually the one to kill Thor as he would have known that he isn't a traitor and because that he had a solid strategy going on.

I don't belive that either one of you are actually traitors.
Because if one of you were there would have probably been more than one kill. We have to look at the ones that weren't around to pm a kill to Drky before we start pointing at each other.

((OOC: Why do you think that there was only one attack? I thought in past games, bad guys could only kill one per night anyway.))

OCC: I thought the traitors get one kill each.

((OOC: Looking back to make sure, Thor ran it so there would only be one kill per night barring any extra power roles. Unless Drk_O has changed the rules . . . ?))

OCC: Alright then, I might have made a mistake. My theory is thrown out the window

Manchu wrote:

Arctik_Firangi wrote:"Thor is fallen - his manner was crude but his tactics are infallible... he had been actively opposed to Joan, however.

Thor's manner was not crude and his tactics were far from infallible. The fact that you are adopting those same tactics is extremely interesting to me, however, and the way that you are labeling them as infallible is the most interesting point of all. Let me explain why before moving on to your other comments.

Before I allow my breakdown to continue, let me clarify that his strategy was a perfectly sound one, which you argued against with great zeal and very little good argument.

Here are the facts and my conclusions so far (let everyone see exactly how I am thinking about this):

- Thor suspected me more than anyone else. Even when he voted for another to die, he still made it clear to everyone that I was his primary suspect.

Thor abandoned his vote on you because he could see that it had no traction yesterday. I have been suspicious of you for some time, but had to see what transpired between you and Thor before I could make up my mind.

- His logic was extremely shaky and no one else was convinced. No other person voted for me for the reasons that Thor laid out.

Thor's logic was that your method was unhelpful at least, and treacherous at worst. Yet I do not even base my grounds for accusation on that fact. The extensive argument that ensued concerned you and he alone.

- Thor is now dead and it turns out that he was a loyal citizen.

Precisely. It was you that accused him of acting like an Inquisitor, and therefore I was not surprised that it was he who was killed.

- Since Thor and I disagreed more vocally than any other two people, I would be the most natural suspect to have murdered him.

Again, I do not even base my grounds for accusation on that fact.

- But I know that I didn't murder him.

That is not an argument for you to make. No one accused you of murdering him alone, besides.

- Therefore I am being framed by the person who really did murder him.

That is neither a fact nor argument, and hence a rash and inculpative conclusion.

- The person who really did murder him would look for other ways to make the frame look more plausible.

I think it much more likely that the person who murdered him would only be defensive of the fact, and none too quick to theorise on the matter before observing the behaviour of the rest of the party.

- A great way to do that would be to say that Thor knew all along who was going to kill him--namely me.

I didn't know that. I knew that one of you was likely going to die though. Your argument would not have been so heated if both of you had been innocent. It turns out that Thor was killed.

- The real murderer had no reason to try and lynch me on day one since I didn't have enough votes against me at any point to be an easy kill.

This singular 'murderer' you refer to did not attempt to kill you at night either. What an odd conclusion.

- The real murder would have been a bandwagon killer, voting not at the very last minute but close enough to prime the kill, waiting for a real innocent to take the fall.

Of course... you didn't vote for anyone. Of course you would try to forge this questionable 'merit' into an argument. Unfortunately, this statement holds no credibility from the unactuable position you have taken.

- I thought that Thor was trying to do that to me--which is why I wasn't going to vote LotG unless I had a public deal with Thor so he couldn't blame a bandwagon kill on me later or claim--as Arctik Firangi already has today--that I "did not even see fit to vote constructively."

Those who have no need to question their own loyalty have no need to strike 'deals' in order to ensure their survival. You were not even threatened with a lynch. I am interested to hear what 'deal' you would like to bargain with me.

- Turns out that someone betrayed Thor in the way that I thought he would betray me. That person was Arctik.

How did you think Thor would 'betray' you? There was no alliance between you two - that much was obvious.

- The real murderer would also want to make me look guilty by playing up Thor's accusations of me before his death, reminding everyone that we argued a lot so that it would look like I had the greatest motive to kill him.

You have already stated this point in different words, and it does not need to be addressed again.

- The real murder would therefore claim that Thor's methods were the most reliable.

In retrospect? Are you not about to state that I did not support his method?

- Arctik now calls Thor's method's infallible when he didn't find them convincing enough to support yesterday.

I have supported Thor's method in word and in deed. His personal decision to vote for you had nothing to do with me supporting that method, and calling me out for not also voting for you is therefore a void statement.

- As I've said: Only a traitor would work with the perfidious alien. Only a trader would want a weapon that would deprive us of the chance to think, discuss, and vote carefully--or at last as a safety to kill as many of us as possible before he is caught. Arctik both defends the xenos witch and wants to use the bolter.

So you have said, and still remains the fact that you have no evidence to base that on, other than your desperation to restrict the flow of information. You may, for that reason, be horrified to know that I have entered a bargain with the 'xenos witch' to disclose to me the identity of any who have approached it in private, wanting the weapon for themselves.

I do not care if this looks like vendetta voting. I held back from voting too much yesterday and made a bad decision to focus on Thor when I should have been looking more closely elsewhere. Unfortunate as it is, the loyal citizen Thor is dead. But he can no longer distract me from paying attention to the facts.

Moreso that anyone else, you have shown that you react with utmost hostility to being accused. There is only one precedent to this - yesterday - but it is noted nevertheless. You clearly did make a bad decision, and I'm sure that you regret it sorely. I am grateful that you did not kill me when you had the chance. Should I, then, expect to turn up dead tomorrow?

Let him try to run some distraction regarding Lord-Loss and I working together. I challenge him to post the evidence. I've made my decision, until Arctik can refute my conclusions above, but I think you should consider the points I've made very carefully before getting sucked into this sideshow cover-up Arctik is trying to pull.

As with in your pathetic arguments against Thor, your calling me to 'post the evidence' does nothing to hide the fact that I ALREADY HAVE. Are suggesting that the others should not even look into this and make their own decisions, regardless of if it is based on the evidence I have presented and referred to or not? Or are you suggesting that they blindly obey your directive to lynch me, based on no evidence but the petty personal judgements you have managed to scrape together?

Fellow passengers - loyal fellows - demand evidence of this woman or damn her and her blood-soaked lies.

But, them working together could mearly be coincidence and it looks like your vote is relying almost entirely on Lord-Loss and Manchu working together. Without proof that they are it's all just suspicion. What I think we should be looking at is if anyone seemed to be working with Orkeo rather than start throwing out votes we can leave for later if nothing turns up. Just like Manchu seems to have no proof that you actually killed Thor and seems to be relying on that as well.

Your tirade is nothing but smoke and noise. I am confident that all who consider our juxtaposed thought processes will find yours utterly unconvincing. Rather they will find a jumble of near schizophrenic ramblings unconnected by reason or logic. I therefore again stress (although you baselessly accuse me of being desperate to restrict information) that everyone should carefully consider this exchange. I know I have nothing to fear from your kind, at least during the day.

Furthermore, you will soon find from what is most likely your fellow xenos conspirator, the Eldar witch, that I have not attempted to bargain with it or in any other way consort with the damned thing. As is characteristic of your entire convoluted thought process, you attack me with the very thing of which you yourself are guilty.

((OOC: I consider this kind of argument a very strong tell of your guilt))

If you are a loyal human like myself then I pity us terribly. Thor was distraction enough from the real threat and he's gone now. Frankly, your shrill accusations are not arguments just because you claim they are. And they are not worth losing my life over. (Since you have basically suggested that with Thor gone, I'm next.)

But my strong hunch--for the reasons I have openly and clearly explained (again, is this my desperate attempt to restrict the flow of information?)--is that you're guilty. If we lynch you today, barring some third hidden enemy, I think we could be done with this and finally take that foul creature to Terra for its just execution.

n0t_u wrote: Just like Manchu seems to have no proof that you actually killed Thor and seems to be relying on that as well.

I have no proof, but I think I have a pretty strong argument.

Both of you do.

Manchu wrote:Your tirade is nothing but smoke and noise. I am confident that all who consider our juxtaposed thought processes will find yours utterly unconvincing. Rather they will find a jumble of near schizophrenic ramblings unconnected by reason or logic. I therefore again stress (although you baselessly accuse me of being desperate to restrict information) that everyone should carefully consider this exchange. I know I have nothing to fear from your kind, at least during the day.

"The first statement I made today contained and referred to my evidence, so listen up, scum:

Do not continue to insist that my argument is baseless.

Your insistence does not make it so, nor does it hide what I have already said, nor does it disguise the fact that your personal musings are not actual evidence. I once referred to Lord-Loss as schizophrenic - how appropriate that you should try that outfit on me.

Your claim that the others would find my arguments 'utterly unconvincing' can be nothing other than an attempt to manipulate people, because again you have no evidence to base it on. Those loyal among us will make up their own minds, and no one will tell them who to believe."

Furthermore, you will soon find from what is most likely your fellow xenos conspirator, the Eldar witch, that I have not attempted to bargain with it or in any other way consort with the damned thing. As is characteristic of your entire convoluted thought process, you attack me with the very thing of which you yourself are guilty.

((OOC: I consider this kind of argument a very strong tell of your guilt))

Yes, I'm sure you wouldn't have spoken to the xenos - you would not even encourage it to assist us if you knew that it would assist us truthfully. You have nothing to gain, and everything to fear of any revelation it may grant us."

[OOC: This line of argument is also silly, and I thought that much would be obvious. In case no one had noticed, Drk_Oblitr8r is actually running this game. If he was on side with the traitors it would be an irrevocably broken situation. Manchu has been spouting this throughout the entire game, and I have been suspicious of it from the beginning.]

"I am as suspicious of Lord-Loss as ever, but I am going after you because frankly I thought that Lord-Loss had too been sloppy. Ironically, you are proving to be far less adept at hiding your guilt than I had thought."

((OOC: It would be pretty broken to have a pro-Imperium special character, too. My hypo has always been that the Eldar is meant to mislead us. Ignoring it seemed the best way to keep it from being a factor. If it did us pro-Imps a favor, it'd have to do the bad guys one, too, I think.))

I'm done honoring your ravings with a response--which led me to be distracted when dealing with Thor. My argument stands and nothing I do can prevent people from making up their own minds so continue making all the weak, totally baseless claims you like. You're your own worst enemy--right after me, that is, you xenos scum.

Manchu wrote:((OOC: Looking back to make sure, Thor ran it so there would only be one kill per night barring any extra power roles. Unless Drk_O has changed the rules . . . ?))

I don't think I changed the rules, I think it's more I used slightly different ones. I made this a closed game, so there maybe a number of roles that can kill at Night.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:

Manchu wrote:- Turns out that someone betrayed Thor in the way that I thought he would betray me. That person was Arctik.

How did you think Thor would 'betray' you? There was no alliance between you two - that much was obvious.

"I wouldn't be so sure," Laughed the Eldar "Thor665 protected Manchu from a Nightkill, should he had been targeted for one. I would argue so much as to say Thor may have even considered you a friend"

I refuse to listen to you, xenos scum. The fact that Thor was a loyal citizen made him your enemy. There is no way I will ever trust your word about your enemies. As we pray in the Litany of Intolerance, the way of the alien is deception and all its paths are snares of ruin.

Manchu wrote:I refuse to listen to you, xenos scum. The fact that Thor was a loyal citizen made him your enemy. There is no way I will ever trust your word about your enemies. As we pray in the Litany of Intolerance, the way of the alien is deception and all its paths are snares of ruin.

"Beleive me, don't beleive me" said the Eldar "in the end, it doesn't matter for me. I die anyway, remember?"

That is exactly what I have been trying to remind everyone--with the qualification that it doesn't make this creature somehow "neutral." At best, it's on its own side and would like to see us slaughter each other endlessly.

Manchu wrote:That is exactly what I have been trying to remind everyone--with the qualification that it doesn't make this creature somehow "neutral." At best, it's on its own side and would like to see us slaughter each other endlessly.

"And to a certain extent, my want of everyone else to be dead can be useful." Said the Eldar "Any remain Genestealers will want all the Imperials dead, and the Imperials want the Genestealers dead. Everyone here wants at least one other here dead"

::Firangi ignores the Eldar::

"Most of what the creature says is nonsense, or irrelevant, but it did answer my specific question yesterday, confirming that there is only one faction of traitors we need to concern ourselves with."

[OOC: Since you're online atm Drky, can you please confirm or deny if we're supposed to know what Thor's role was?]

Arctik_Firangi wrote:[OOC: Since you're online atm Drky, can you please confirm or deny if we're supposed to know what Thor's role was?]

When anyone dies, their role is revealed. I thought there was a rule for it, but there isn't.

[I mean are we supposed to know what a Sanctioned Psyker role specifically does?]

[They get smashed by Ogryns.]

Arctik_Firangi wrote:[I mean are we supposed to know what a Sanctioned Psyker role specifically does?]

I'm not sure really, I don't think it matters either way tbh.

[wut? Are you or are youy not running this gamer?]

Arctik_Firangi wrote:[wut? Are you or are youy not running this gamer?]

I'm running this game, I don't really mind either way.

[Look, I'm sorry to harp on, but I'm asking you, the person who is running the game, a simple question.

What was Thor's role?

We know what his role was called, but we don't know if it's the equivalent of a Mafia doctor or something else.
Alternatively, if we're not supposed to know, tell us that we're not supposed to know. That is all I want clarification on -

I don't really mind either way.

((Its the equivalent of a Doctor))

Arctik_Firangi argueing has made me very suspicous of him.

Vote: Arctik_Firangi

So we've got a serial killer here?

The fun never ends...

whoever killed Thor was doing it probably to remove his clear and sensible thinking from the game....therefore, im thinking that manchu is to blame. you had arguments that lead to me believing something was up....therefore i believe you are behind it, sister.


[b]VOTE MANCHU

Lord-Loss wrote:
Arctik_Firangi argueing has made me very suspicous of him.

Vote: Arctik_Firangi

As expected.

No argument or evidence then? As scum, you obviously have no cause other than to attempt to summon a general air of 'suspicion' around me. Of course you have no solid reasoning behind what you're saying... no reasoning at all, in fact.
The fact that I can present an argument does not automatically present me as guilty. The fact that you did not, does.

Well your argument is based on me and Manchu being partners, because we we're voting for the same person who is now dead, this could all be part of your plan. Kill Thor and frame me and Manchu as the culprits.

You said you suspected Orkeo and you "didn't like him", then he turns up the next day, he's scum but someone must have killed him. ::Spits on the floor::

ghosty wrote:you had arguments that lead to me believing something was up....therefore i believe you are behind it, sister.

Why would I want to remove clear and sensible thinking from the game? I believe that Thor and I have actually been the only two players to engage in protracted explanations of why we have voted the way we have. To be quite honest, Thor (and now Arctik) both use multiple quotes from my arguments to make theirs look longer/more structured, a pretty simple visual trick that many of you seem to have fallen for. Ghosty, people like you have been freeriding lurkers. It still puzzles me that Thor would go after me for being a lurker after pages and pages of responding to his accusations when people like you have barely spoken at all.

If the Eldar spoke truly, which I have no reason to believe, Thor going after me and then shielding me probably meant that he actually suspected that I was innocent but was setting me up as bait for the traitors.

Moreover, what arguments have lead you to the conclusion that I murdered Thor?

Manchu wrote:Moreover, what arguments have lead you to the conclusion that I murdered Thor?

Let him try to run some distraction regarding Lord-Loss and I working together. I challenge him to post the evidence. I've made my decision, until Arctik can refute my conclusions above, but I think you should consider the points I've made very carefully before getting sucked into this sideshow cover-up Arctik is trying to pull.

To be quite honest, Thor (and now Arctik) both use multiple quotes from my arguments to make theirs look longer/more structured, a pretty simple visual trick that many of you seem to have fallen for.

Why would I want to remove clear and sensible thinking from the game? I believe that Thor and I have actually been the only two players to engage in protracted explanations of why we have voted the way we have.

"Which of these contradictory methods and examples would you like your fellows to adhere to, dear Sister?"

[OOC: I've always hated the whole quote-to-pieces thing, but you sort of asked for it]

Lord-Loss wrote:Well your argument is based on me and Manchu being partners, because we we're voting for the same person who is now dead, this could all be part of your plan. Kill Thor and frame me and Manchu as the culprits.

You said you suspected Orkeo and you "didn't like him", then he turns up the next day, he's scum but someone must have killed him. ::Spits on the floor::

"The latter was a brilliant statement, fool. Was there a point? I said that an Ogryn would be dangerous indeed if he were the host of a malevolent alien insurgent. I, for one, am glad he is dead. You seem almost spiteful of the fact.

Neither of you can be linked directly to the death of Thor, but it makes sense that you would want rid of him. Thor was very clever in attempting to protect Joan, as the witch has kindly informed us... supposing he was wrong about Joan's guilt, should the xenos kill her off, he would be very suspect himself. Given his important role, and given that he had no better target, covering himself in that fashion was extremely prudent.

It was fortunate for you two that the target of your wrath was very important to we loyalists. Joan probably thought him an Inquisitor, or at least feared another day of argument against her. Fortunately, he is almost no longer needed. Had I announced my suspicion of Joan yesterday, I would have been a much smarter choice for her to kill, rather than sloppily knocking off the one giving her the most grief. For a very relevant reason that should be frighteningly evident to you by now, I am absolutely assured of Joan's guilt. Any further questions?"

Looking over the current votes for anyone interested.
Manchu 2
Arctik 2

My vote is leaning towards Arctik, but I haven't made up my mind yet to vote. Don't want to accidentally get a lynch when I come back to change my mind after thinking it through a bit

@Arctik: I have no idea what you mean by contradictory methods. I think people should be free to make up their own minds after reviewing each person's statements rather than constantly harassing them. That last part is what Thor and I seemed to disagree on. This lead him to denounce me in public and (paradoxically, so I'd be surprised if the xenos was telling the truth) protect me in private.

Here is what seems to be your argument:

- Thor voted for me for most of the first day. Then he changed his mind and voted for someone else.

- This made me, according to you a genestealer, frightened so I killed him.

- You, in a stroke of genius, figure out that I had a motive to kill Thor.

I have to say, that's pretty pathetic. If I was a traitor why would I kill the person who's death would draw the most attention to me?

Having asked that question, allow me to summarize my argument against you:

- My argument with Thor makes me look bad once Thor is dead.

- The person who killed Thor would divert suspicion from himself by blaming me for Thor's murder.

- Arctik desperately blames me for Thor's murder on the basis of no evidence other than I argued with Thor yesterday.

What a coincidence! I think not. Clearly, you murdered Thor and are blaming me on a pretense.

I think my argument holds a little more water. I think that's doubly apparent to everyone who realizes how stupid it would be if I were a genestealer and killed Thor. You yourself even recognize that, calling it "sloppy":

Arctik_Firangi wrote:Had I announced my suspicion of Joan yesterday, I would have been a much smarter choice for her to kill, rather than sloppily knocking off the one giving her the most grief.

So, you basically admit that the most crucial premise of your argument--that I would kill Thor for arguing with me yesterday--is stupid? Well, I agree. That is very stupid and I'm afraid it exposes just how unsound you're entire argument is.

But you basically admit that, too:

Arctik_Firangi wrote:Neither of you can be linked directly to the death of Thor, but it makes sense that you would want rid of him.

Right, so your argument that I killed Thor is not based in any kind of fact but rather on the shakiest of arguments. Furthermore, this ridiculous statement could be applied to anyone suspected of being a traitor, including you. For example: I cannot "directly" link you to Thor's death (no one can be, none of us--except the murderers themselves--have that kind of evidence), but it makes sense that you'd want him dead.

"You were contradictory in the quotes I provided in that you asked me to refute your claims, then attacked me for doing so, and yet you have no issue with engaging in 'protracted argument' yourself. Your claim that you would not have lobbied for Thor's death on the basis that he was your strongest opponent seems strange, when you are so opposed to me arguing against you.

Ultimately, I was nothing more than suspicious of you yesterday. My actions last night dramatically reinforced my perspective. Now the evidence adds up perfectly, and I believe that Lord-Loss has damned himself in defending you."

::Firangi stands up straight and tosses back his heavy black robe, to reveal a gleaming suit of silver-lined carapace armour, and a shining broadsword at his hip. His 'mechanical' right arm folds back and over his shoulder, snapping agressively, and the calipers on his mechadendrite limbs lock together into sharp, deadly points. Hanging from his neck is a glowing penant, wrought into the symbol of the Inquisition. His right arm, previously hidden, wrenches the sword from its scabbard, and he points its damning tip at Joan::

"You are not entirely mistaken in entitling me 'xenos', but I will clarify it for you - I am an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor. I have seen what you have done. You are undeniably a traitor to us all.

Companions, join me in destroying our dear Sister, for they will come for me tonight, and I will be able to provide you with no more aid."

.........

I am not sure about this, you reveal this to us now?

Surely If your case was strong enough you could just convince people to vote for Joan, you will have to convince me to vote, Inqusitior or not, you must make a strong case.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:My actions last night dramatically reinforced my perspective. Now the evidence adds up perfectly, and I believe that Lord-Loss has damned himself in defending you.

First, Lord-Loss has never defended me. He merely defended himself against YOUR accusations of working with me. The fact that you call that "defending me" in order to link him to me as a traitor shows how desperate and threadbare your argument really is.

Attention, everyone! I would suggest being careful around Arctik: if you defend yourself against his accusations, that constitutes automatic proof that you are a traitor.

Moving on, I have no doubt that your actions last night--murdering Thor--rendered you "suspicious" of me. I have also shown how the "evidence" does add up perfectly: against you and your shallow attempt to blame me for your misdeeds.

I laugh--laugh--at your claims to be an Inquisitor. I am entirely sure that you are not an Inquisitor. Besides, no true Inquisitor would reveal himself at this juncture. Every loyal Imperial Citizen knows the penalty of impersonating an Inquisitor is ipso facto excommunication and death by burning "or method most expedient under the circumstances." You are xenos scum and this facade of Inquisitorial authority proves it.

How convenient that the penalty for impersonating an Inquisitor so neatly coincides with that for being an alien-fething traitor. I suggest we loyal citizen get around to executing the penalty.

Lord-Loss will reveal his vote for now, but remains supicous of both Manchu and Arctik_Firangi.


Unvote:Arctik_Firangi

"Where's a bolt pistol when you need one?" laughed the Eldar

Arctik_Firangi wrote:"You are not entirely mistaken in entitling me 'xenos', but I will clarify it for you - I am an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor. I have seen what you have done. You are undeniably a traitor to us all.

"Ohh yes Arctik, and I am the big mon keigh leader guy person" Laughed the Eldar "I don't believe they will beleive you unless you can find some proof."

"Also, as the big mon keigh leader guy person, I would like someone to clean the Gaunts of the windsheild of this ship, do we have any volunteers?" Laughed the Eldar, pointing towards the control room

Manchu wrote:

Arctik_Firangi wrote:My actions last night dramatically reinforced my perspective. Now the evidence adds up perfectly, and I believe that Lord-Loss has damned himself in defending you.

First, Lord-Loss has never defended me. He merely defended himself against YOUR accusations of working with me. The fact that you call that "defending me" in order to link him to me as a traitor shows how desperate and threadbare your argument really is.

Attention, everyone! I would suggest being careful around Arctik: if you defend yourself against his accusations, that constitutes automatic proof that you are a traitor.

Moving on, I have no doubt that your actions last night--murdering Thor--rendered you "suspicious" of me. I have also shown how the "evidence" does add up perfectly: against you and your shallow attempt to blame me for your misdeeds.

I laugh--laugh--at your claims to be an Inquisitor. I am entirely sure that you are not an Inquisitor. Besides, no true Inquisitor would reveal himself at this juncture. Every loyal Imperial Citizen knows the penalty of impersonating an Inquisitor is ipso facto excommunication and death by burning "or method most expedient under the circumstances." You are xenos scum and this facade of Inquisitorial authority proves it.

How convenient that the penalty for impersonating an Inquisitor so neatly coincides with that for being an alien-fething traitor. I suggest we loyal citizen get around to executing the penalty.

"Where shall I begin to pull apart your lies? Let's start with the idea tha defending yourself against my accusations is proof that your are a traitor... and I'll ask you to tell me where I have done so. My suspicion of Lord-Loss has been long-running, and I have given many reasons. His blundering attempts to refute what I say about his actions barely need to be pointed out for what they are, but as long as he does so whilst defending the one I know to be guilty, he will be reprimanded.

I was right on my gut feeling about Orkeo, and turned out to be correct in my decision to investigate you, Joan. Should there be a third traitor, I am quite confident that it will be Lord-Loss. I have provoked him thus, and his reaction has been to stumble and jabber contrary nonsense. There is no doubt that you are an alien insurgent, Joan, and if the best defense you can manage is to laugh in my general direction, then you are laughable yourself.

I am the Emperor's Hand - I am your doom. You need not quote me doctrine, scum. You need not criticise my strategy, because there is no way you will reach Terra now that you have been revealed. Just as you spitefully disposed of Thor, so you would do the same of me. Should you not be executed this day, my death overnight would damn you anyway. If you or any allies you may have do not kill me tonight, I will be keeping a close eye on your suspicious comrade. You cannot afford not to dispose of me, xenos traitor. This is not the first genestealer infestation I have purged, but I fear it will be my last. Martyrdom was probably a concept you once held dear, Sister... how delicious that mine will spell doom for your wretched cause."

I will once again openly outline what is going on so that everyone can know my thought process:

- Everything Arctik said previously was based on one fact, that Thor is dead and not a traitor.

- I showed how that fact does not actually support Arctik's argument and, if anything, that basing his vote against me on that argument made a better case against him being the traitor.

- Seeing that his argument was indeed very weak, Arctik needed to come up with something to give his accusations charisma.

- Suddenly, he claims to be an Inquisitor who just happened to investigate me. Why would he, you might ask, investigate me? Why because QUITE CONVENIENTLY he suspected Orkeosaurus yesterday (oh, but did NOTHING about it except for cover himself by passingly criticizing Orkeo).

- There is no reason why Arctik's suspicions about Orkeo have anything to do with me, no logical connection whatsoever. But that doesn't matter . . .

- . . . because this is just a little trick to distract all of you you from the OBVIOUS LIE that Arctik is an Inquisitor. He wants to look like he's putting the pieces together, thinking that will make him seem more Inquisitorial.

In summation, Arctik's arguments against me have gone from relying upon a faulty argument to relying upon a very bad lie. I reiterate, I am entirely confident that Artick is lying about being an Inquisitor. With the discovery of a possible serial killer, a real Inquisitor would not be so quick to show his or her hand.

Yeah, there's a time to reveal who you are. This obviously wasn't the right time because people don't seem to belive you. Are you able to prove that you are?


What is it with everyone about this "serial killer"?

Manchu wrote:I will once again openly outline what is going on so that everyone can know my thought process:

"Sister Jones [sic]. Again we see that there is nothing you can claim, that I cannot refute."

- Everything Arctik said previously was based on one fact, that Thor is dead and not a traitor.

- I showed how that fact does not actually support Arctik's argument and, if anything, that basing his vote against me on that argument made a better case against him being the traitor.

"An interesting point, other than the fact that you are blatantly lying. The fact that Thor is dead helps me to explain to the others what I already know. It is not the only point that I made, and in saying so you give weight to my argument that you have been trying to restrict information. Everyone else can go back through the voice logs for themselves and see that you are lying. You will win no friends by treating your companions like fools. I hardly need to point out your pitiful attempts at deception when you make them so obvious."

- Seeing that his argument was indeed very weak, Arctik needed to come up with something to give his accusations charisma.

- Suddenly, he claims to be an Inquisitor who just happened to investigate me. Why would he, you might ask, investigate me? Why because QUITE CONVENIENTLY he suspected Orkeosaurus yesterday (oh, but did NOTHING about it except for cover himself by passingly criticizing Orkeo).

"In my mentioning Orkeo and his death, I spoke only to the matter of my confidence in exposing my true identity. You are clearly very threatened by this. I repeat, if I am killed today or tonight, you are exposed. So just go ahead and try to get me lynched - you will bring about your own doom. Why not offer yourself up as a sacrifice in order to prove my supposed guilt? You would never even hint at such a thing, because you are scum, and your cause would be placed in the hands of your inept companion."

- There is no reason why Arctik's suspicions about Orkeo have anything to do with me, no logical connection whatsoever. But that doesn't matter . . .

- . . . because this is just a little trick to distract all of you you from the OBVIOUS LIE that Arctik is an Inquisitor. He wants to look like he's putting the pieces together, thinking that will make him seem more Inquisitorial.

"One way or the other, you will die very soon, because there are two very simple ways to prove my identity, both of which are obvious and inevitable. Again, I challenge you to martyr yourself, confident that you cannot afford to, because you are a traitor. I can also predict that you will try to avoid my death... a logical loop in your favour, and one that I will be most certain to point out when you try. No doubt you will pretend I had never said it, and try to compare my entire case against an irrelevant matter."

In summation, Arctik's arguments against me have gone from relying upon a faulty argument to relying upon a very bad lie. I reiterate, I am entirely confident that Artick is lying about being an Inquisitor. With the discovery of a possible serial killer, a real Inquisitor would not be so quick to show his or her hand.

"Etcetera, etcetera, you will be exposed one way or the other and so on. Now, if you like to actually address an actual topic, tell us about this 'serial killer'. It is hardly a pressing matter in the given situation - we are expecting assassinations - unless this 'killer' is targeting scum, in which case you have a lot to worry about, Sister. Mekboy has mentioned it too... or simply coined the term you have used to describe the mystery killer. There has been no discussion so far about how Orkeo was actually killed, and I for one have to admit that I have no theories on what could have resulted in his death."

n0t_u wrote:Yeah, there's a time to reveal who you are. This obviously wasn't the right time because people don't seem to belive you. Are you able to prove that you are?

[OOC: There are only two ways to prove a character's identity in this game. One is to be killed, and the other is to be investigated by an Inquisitor. It is up to you whether or not you believe me until then, because it simply cannot be proved. For example, I have proved to myself that Manchu is a genestealer through investigation, but of course it is impossible to actually 'prove' to anyone. I have brought many strong theories to light in order to back up my claim, and Joan has nothing with which to reply but excuses and denial.

Her insistence on proof in either matter (that I am an Inquisitor, or that she is a Genestealer) is another strong case against her reasoning. Joan will continue to ask for 'proof' which cannot logically exist, and I will continue to critique her methods. If you can understand this, you can understand why Thor was absolutely correct to damn her for her 'do nothing' method - she has only voted against people who have threatened her, which does not even match the method she has claimed to be using. Biding time only works in the traitor's favour at the beginning of the game. As an example of Thor's method, I have been provoking Lord-Loss, and sure enough, he has been making mistakes. Whether or not he is scum is unproven, but should the game continue after Joan's death, it is a good start.

On the other hand, since we have a dead traitor and I have exposed another, exposing myself early is fairly prudent. I am aware that Joan had a reasonable amount of support yesterday, and cannot allow that to build up. Whether Joan or I are lynched, she will be exposed as guilty. The sooner this is sorted out, the better, and the less scummy influence she will have on everyone else.

Now, when you say that people don't seem to believe my claim to be an Inquisitor, surely you have noticed that Joan is actually the only one who has denied my claim? Drk_Obllitr8r is a neutral NPC, and is misleading you in this case. As gamesmaster, he knows perfectly well that I am telling the truth. Joan is also probably the most convinced of the fact that I am an Inquisitor, but it is against her interests to promote that belief. No one else could be so assured of her guilt.]

If it is so clear from the "voice logs" that I am lying, why don't you make a little list of this evidence. You keep insisting that you have this evidence and that anyone only need reread everything that has already been said (knowing that few to no people will actually do this) but when it comes to it you only have two arguments:

(1) That Thor, the dead loyal citizen you killed, and I argued before he died

(2) The ridiculous lie that you are an Inquisitor

Your demand that I be martyred is nothing more than a and transparent attempt to set me up for an easier lynch so that you can do away with another loyal citizen at night. You're own death would prove more than mine. It would prove either that you are an Inquisitor (which I am certain it would not) or that you are a traitor--genestealer of serial killer . . . and I am beginning to suspect the latter.

You're getting pretty desperate, Arctik. What's the matter? Are you starting to suspect that the Inquisitor lie was a bad move? Are you starting to suspect that I might be the Inquisitor?

What do you think,n0t_U? Surely you can see that Arctik is trying to worm his way out of my arguments with mere smoke and mirrors. The smoke is rhetoric and the mirrors are lies!

((OOC: It's getting kind of annoying to be the only one beside Arctik who is actually contributing to this game. Others really need to pitch in more than two or three sentences here.))

You should be careful, no telling if anyone has that damn Bolt Pistol or not. I might not vote for you, but also might not vote for Manchu. If you can tell me what my character is through investigation next chance you get, I'll belive and assist you. That's if the traitors can't do the same thing

Hopefully you won't be dead before you can prove it.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:Her insistence on proof in either matter (that I am an Inquisitor, or that she is a Genestealer) is another strong case against her reasoning.

That's your best line yet! You go on and on about how there is so much evidence that I am guilty and then you say that me asking you to show everyone that evidence is itself "proof" of my guilt??? Utterly ridiculous!

I ask you, fellow citizens, is this a convincing argument?

And I have never and will never ask you for proof that you are an Inquisitor. No such proof exists because you are not an Inquisitor. The only person who has asked for that proof is n0t_U . . . so are you saying that him asking for proof is an argument for me being a traitor? Or are you going to accuse him of being a traitor next?

Manchu wrote:What do you think,n0t_U? Surely you can see that Arctik is trying to worm his way out of my arguments with mere smoke and mirrors. The smoke is rhetoric and the mirrors are lies!

I think I know who killed Orkeo.

@n0t_U: Your reluctance to do anything is the same thing that Thor criticized me for and now Arctik is criticizing me for the same reason. Funny that he is not criticizing you . . .

So who killed Orkeo? And how did you come to this conclusion?

Well theres a lot to take in, plus I want my vote to be hiting the right target.

If anything the people who haven't contibuted for a fair while (Ultrafook, etc) are probably the traitors rather than Arctik. Besides if he's guilty the serial killer would probably get him anyway. The way I see it is that if one of you two gets lynched the other will probably be killed anyway, I think that you're both loyalists so this arguing is kind of dumb. We should target the ones who have vanished from the game, perhaps they're hiding from the real Inquisitor.

n0t_u wrote:You should be careful, no telling if anyone has that damn Bolt Pistol or not.

Actually, Arctik claims he has made a deal with the xenos witch to use it as an informant to find out things like this.

Remember how he was trying to convince you that I had made a deal with the xenos and he would bring it to light so as to prove that I was a traitor?

Notice how he shut up about it? Well that means one of two things, or maybe both:

- I didn't make any deals with the xenos (Artick is the only one who claims to have)--which I know to be true

- Arctik actually has no deal with the xenos and this was a lie just like the Inquisitor lie--which I don't know one way or the other

@n0t_U: Arctik would have made a better impression on me as a loyal citizen if he had not lied about being an Inquisitor and done exactly what any traitor would attempt by framing me. How do you respond to those arguments?

Also, you still have not mentioned who killed Orkeo or why you think this . . .

Manchu wrote:So who killed Orkeo? And how did you come to this conclusion?

Obviously I'll explain it later in case Arctik decides to convince everyone to vote for this important loyalist tool.

Manchu wrote:@n0t_U: Arctik would have made a better impression on me as a loyal citizen if he had not lied about being an Inquisitor and done exactly what any traitor would attempt by framing me. How do you respond to those arguments?

This deal is interesting. Well Arctik if you found out who has the pistol tell us.

n0t_u wrote:Obviously I'll explain it later in case Arctik decides to convince everyone to vote for this important loyalist tool.

What? You suspect that there is yet another pro- imperial power role (I mean other than Inquisitor) rather than a serial killer? Surely you can explain something about this without compromising the identity of the person. And if you're so convinced that Artick is a loyal citizen or even Inquisitor, why would you think he'd lead a lynch against such a person?

Manchu wrote:

n0t_u wrote:Obviously I'll explain it later in case Arctik decides to convince everyone to vote for this important loyalist tool.

What? You suspect that there is yet another pro- imperial power role (I mean other than Inquisitor) rather than a serial killer? Surely you can explain something about this without compromising the identity of the person. And if you're so convinced that Artick is a loyal citizen or even Inquisitor, why would you think he'd lead a lynch against such a person?

I thought you were an Inquisitor as well before it, I mearly gave him a chance to prove it to me later. It isn't 100% that he is a loyalist, this loyalist tool might just kill him just to see what he is, that's all I was saying. If he is loyalist he has nothing to fear from them and probably won't even know about them until the end of the game.

n0t_u wrote:I thought you were an Inquisitor as well before it, I mearly gave him a chance to prove it to me later. It isn't 100% that he is a loyalist, this loyalist tool might just kill him just to see what he is, that's all I was saying. If he is loyalist he has nothing to fear from them and probably won't even know about them until the end of the game.

Where are you getting this information?

((OOC: Is this the xenos thing? Thor was right, very frustrating if so.))

OCC: Just a guess actually.

((OOC: Oh, okay. The Eldar thing constantly throws me on top of this being a closed game.))

Manchu wrote:

n0t_u wrote:You should be careful, no telling if anyone has that damn Bolt Pistol or not.

Actually, Arctik claims he has made a deal with the xenos witch to use it as an informant to find out things like this.

Remember how he was trying to convince you that I had made a deal with the xenos and he would bring it to light so as to prove that I was a traitor?

Notice how he shut up about it? Well that means one of two things, or maybe both:

- I didn't make any deals with the xenos (Artick is the only one who claims to have)--which I know to be true

- Arctik actually has no deal with the xenos and this was a lie just like the Inquisitor lie--which I don't know one way or the other

"I am perfectly happy to correct you again, Sister. I said that I had entered into a bargain, and nothing more. I certainly made no mention or inference about you bargaining with the other xenos, and I am glad that you have taken this bait. Your point is utterly redundant, and your desperate protests are noted. The Eldar can confirm himself that he did not acknowledge my request.

I have never claimed to have tangible proof of your guilt, only evidence. There can be no proof until one of us are dead. I would a fool to expose myself this early if I was not an Inquisitor, because I would be killed tomorrow when it was clearly proven that I was not. I have no need to provoke n0t_u at the present time, because I am assured of your guilt.

Joan - cease your endless calls for 'proof'. There can not be proof, save on our dead bodies. My evidence, however, is present despite your attempts to brush it aside."

OCC:So my guess is right?

So I take it, n0t_U, that your strategy is either to not vote or to vote no lynch? If there was one thing Thor and I agreed on thoroughly it was that those were both pro-scum ideas.

"I can put up with you trying to get me killed, but don't even try to foist your guilt off onto someone else, Joan. I told you I would watch out for this, and here you are, immediately trying to shift the focus... and with a point that you conceded to the man you killed, no less."

No my strategy is to vote for the right person. I will vote and we still have a while before this day phase ends. Besides the votes are basically tied at the moment. I'm waiting to see what Arctik says then I'm voting. I want to see who has the Bolt Pistol, finding out who has it was part of his deal with the xenos wasn't it?

"I have already stated the nature of my 'deal' - I never made such a deal. The xenos has not given me any such information, either because no one has asked for the pistol, or because he has refused to enter into the bargain himself. Those are Joan's words, not mine.

Judging by the way the ogryn's throat was cut, I sincerely doubt that this involved the pistol [OOC: Unless Drky had a lapse]. I still don't understand these cries of 'serial killer'. The only serial killers here are the genestealer element. A single kill, of a traitor, does not make a serial murder."

Arctik_Firangi wrote:"I am perfectly happy to correct you again, Sister. I said that I had entered into a bargain, and nothing more. I certainly made no mention or inference about you bargaining with the other xenos, and I am glad that you have taken this bait. Your point is utterly redundant, and your desperate protests are noted. The Eldar can confirm himself that he did not acknowledge my request.

Lies, lies, lies. Tsk, tsk. Your story is FULL OF HOLES!

Here is what you said when you disclosed your little deal:

Arctik_Firangi wrote:So you have said, and still remains the fact that you have no evidence to base that on, other than your desperation to restrict the flow of information. You may, for that reason, be horrified to know that I have entered a bargain with the 'xenos witch' to disclose to me the identity of any who have approached it in private, wanting the weapon for themselves.

You clearly implied that I approached the witch for the gun by claiming knowledge of your attempt to deal with it would "horrify" me.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:I have never claimed to have tangible proof of your guilt, only evidence.

And again:

Arctik_Firangi wrote:The 'another on this ship' that I mentioned at the time was none other than Joan, and I am now more convinced than ever that these two are in league. Several times yesterday our sister saw cause to rebuke his actions... where she would normally cast suspicion on hints of rash behaviour. I will make yesterday's vox-recordings available to everyone... see for yourselves how often they speak directly to one another. I believe that Lord-Loss is truly the henchman in this situation, which is why I believe that Joan must die first.

(my bolding)
Well? I asked for it and you said:

Arctik_Firangi wrote:As with in your pathetic arguments against Thor, your calling me to 'post the evidence' does nothing to hide the fact that I ALREADY HAVE.

But you most certainly had not.

So I asked for it again and now you claim it doesn't exist? *sigh* The xenos did not send their brightest agent.

And do not attempt to worm out of this by citing the difference between proof and evidence. I have used the word "EVIDENCE" every single time I've asked you for it.

You are the one who keeps talking about "proof." You talk about "proof" that I am a traitor and then you say there is no such "proof." You talk about "proof" that you are an Inquisitor and then you say there is no such "proof." Well, we can agree on those points.

So what evidence is there?

I maintain that you have two claims:

- I must have murdered Thor because we argued yesterday. (This is your attempt to frame me.)

- You know I am a traitor because you are an Inquisitor and you investigated me last night. (This is you lying to me and everyone else.)

I see, well that sets back my plan on who to vote for back a bit. I just can't decide what one to vote for out of you two
One or both could be a loyalist and that's what is making me take my time with my vote, I don't want to kill off a loyalist. Also, I do not want to risk killing an Inquisitor either.

EDIT: Manchu's post wasn't there when I made this.

After reading through the evidence Manchu just presented I think I'll vote for Arctik. If he has lied about the deal with the xenos, then he might be be lieing about being an Inquisitor and possibly even a loyalist as well. Hopefully you are not actually an Inquisitor.

Vote: Arctik

"ENOUGH, FOOL!

I have not spoken of proof. It is you that has insisted on proof. You hide behind a veil of circular logic that cannot possibly be factored into this situation, and use it to refute everything I have brought against you.

I never mentioned a deal. Those are your words. I very carefully stated that I - ALONE - had entered into the bargain, and inferred that you 'may be horrified' in order to provoke you. It has worked. You walked right into a trap. Of course you would try to misconstrue this as a lie I am telling, but I have the advantage of the fact that the Eldar can confirm what I am claiming. There, if nowhere else, is absolute proof.

I have said that you did not murder Thor alone. You claim that I have said exactly that, but obviously it was a concensus between yourself and your companions. I have presented your animosity against Thor as evidence. I have responded to your posts demanding proof by referring people to what has been said, rather than what you would prefer - [OOC: that is, only reading the crap you post on the current page, flooding the thread with rubbish and cries of 'liar!' that rarely address actual points and refuse to acknowledge points that have been made in the past]

I brought many other matters to light that point towards your guilt. You have only ever voted for your direct opposition, despite conceding to Thor that non-voting was an error. You spent much of yesterday arguing to the contrary. You have attempted, in many various ways that I have continually pointed out, to mislead the others by neglecting to address valid points (except by saying that I am 'lying' - a tired line), and denying that they exist. You have been authoritative and reprimanding in a neutral manner with Lord-Loss, who has behaved suspiciously himself. You will never address the option of martyring yourself because it is too risky at this early stage... despite the unarguable fact it makes perfect sense to do so early, if you are a loyalist.

I know that you are a traitor, and no amount of 'you're lying' and 'I sincerely doubt' constitutes an argument against the claim."

[OOC: My comment on posting the vox-recordings was roleplaying - suspension-of-disbelief. Everyone is capable of going back through the thread, and I was only referring to the matter in a way that would make sense when speaking in character.]

n0t_u, you will feel very foolish when I am killed today and Joan stabs you in the back tonight. Kill her now and the best they can hope for is to kill me. You will notice that no-one else has claimed to be an Inquisitor, which is what a loyalist would sensibly do if someone falsely claimed to be one.

"Joan has NO evidence that I am a traitor other than weak theories, naysaying and more recently, her desperate insistence that I am not an Inquisitor. If you have been given any other impression, you have been seduced by her rhetoric, and I challenge any third party to refute that or provide reasonable evidence that she has presented."

[Drky, I am also requesting a bump of inactive players. Has typhus even posted once? I'm getting tired of contant banter between two-and-a-half people.]

My desperation? When you have just ranted and screamed in the face of logic? I think you feel the walls of your lies and qualifications closing in.

I have consistently posted clear and concise responses to address all the points you have raised (including your ridiculous request that I save you the time of murdering me by somehow martyring myself--although you have just LIED about me not responding to that.)

You also lied about (on two occasions now) about me not voting yesterday. I did vote. I voted for Thor because I thought he was the most suspicious person. I was wrong that he was a traitor but I don't think that means that he could not have been acting suspiciously in my eyes. I agreed with Thor that everyone should vote for the person they felt was the most suspicious. I also agreed that I would change my vote if he could assure me he wasn't just trying to bait me into looking like a bandwagon voter.

No one else has claimed to be an Inquisitor because the real Inquisitor--if indeed one is truly present--would noy reveal himself to early and is counting on other loyalists like myself knowing that and recognizing you as an impostor.

By all means, continue to rave. It will do you no good, traitor.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:I never mentioned a deal. Those are your words. I very carefully stated that I - ALONE - had entered into the bargain, and inferred that you 'may be horrified' in order to provoke you. It has worked. You walked right into a trap. Of course you would try to misconstrue this as a lie I am telling, but I have the advantage of the fact that the Eldar can confirm what I am claiming. There, if nowhere else, is absolute proof.

So the Eldar didn't tell you who has the Bolt Pistol then? I was hoping that you did know.

Arctik_Firangi wrote: n0t_u, you will feel very foolish when I am killed today and Joan stabs you in the back tonight. Kill her now and the best they can hope for is to kill me. You will notice that no-one else has claimed to be an Inquisitor, which is what a loyalist would sensibly do if someone falsely claimed to be one.

Maybe I will, maybe us loyalists will win at the small sacrifice of your life, Machu's and mine.

"'Clear and concise responses' do not, however, make evidence against me, and I can only applaud you for having somehow convinced anyone that it does. You have only barely responded to my accusations, and the mere fact that you are suspicious of me does not constitute good evidence at this point...
[Early game maybe, but you have had the game thrown at you, and now you actually have to deal with the consequences of being unconstructive]

I have referred to your first mistake - presenting yourself as a 'non-voter'. You said yourself that you would not vote without clear reason, which Thor repeatedly and correctly pointed out as effectively deciding to not vote. Ultimately, you withdrew your vote against Thor, as part of your failed attempt to make a 'deal' with him.

I have given strong reasons for revealing myself as an Inquisitor. Among those reasons is the fact that since I am likely to die tonight if not today, it is guaranteed to prove that you are guilty.

Tell me, traitor, what do you hope to achieve by surviving today when you seek my death anyway? Who is your target should I be lynched? Answer theoretically, if you have not the stomach to talk about actual, useful strategy."

I've been thinking though, what if neither of you are actually traitors and the real ones are off laughing at the three of us?

Arctik_Firangi wrote:Ultimately, you withdrew your vote against Thor, as part of your failed attempt to make a 'deal' with him.

Wrong -OR- lying once again.

Arctik wrote:I have given strong reasons for revealing myself as an Inquisitor. Among those reasons is the fact that since I am likely to die tonight if not today, it is guaranteed to prove that you are guilty.

If you're so eager to prove me guilty by dying, let's just kill you now--since you think martydom is such a good idea for me--and we'll see what it proves. My bet is that it proves you're an alien scumbag or else some sort of serial killer.

As for the rest of your drivel, I am finished dignifying insults with a response. If you have any actual concerns that I have not already addressed time and time again, I will answer them AS USUAL with clear, concise answers that expose my thought process for everyone to consider.

n0t_u wrote:I've been thinking though, what if neither of you are actually traitors and the real ones are off laughing at the three of us?

At this point, I am feel certain that Arctik is the traitor. You'll have to guage my arguments for yourself, however. I was wrong about Thor and could be wrong about Arctik. But the way that Arctik has recently lied about so much (or gotten an awful lot of important things absolutely wrong by chance) and the fact that his desperate arguments against me are so weak AND given that he is almost certainly lying about being an Inquisitor, I will not be changing my vote unless someone else basically confesses.

Yeah, I guess that the real Inquisitor might reveal themselves. But, if Manchu is the real one then revealing it would actually be a bad idea. I'll probably change my vote if the same thing happens. I'm interested to see where this Bolt Pistol turns up. Obviously it will have a huge effect on the game, I only hope it's on the loyalist's side and hits the right target. How many traitors were there anyway? Has it been revealed yet?

BIG OOC:
[[{{
1. typhus
2. Arctik_Firangi
3. Manchu
4. Lord-Loss
5. n0t_u
6. Ghosty
7. Mekboy
8. Owain

If I am lynched, Manchu and any other genestealers will kill one of:
typhus (unlikely since he is not actually in the game,) Lord-Loss (cough)
n0t_u
Ghosty
Mekboy
Owain

This will leave at least four loyalists (I doubt that there would be more than three genestealers, if there are even that many). Lord-Loss may be a loyalist, but I have my doubts, most recently because he dropped his vote against me, and since Joan will die anyway, this could be an attempt to get in under the radar.

Three votes will be required to lynch tomorrow, which means that Joan can be easily disposed of once my death proves her guilt. If our mystery killer strikes again, there will still be 3 votes required but it will be out of four players. Since typhus is not even in the game, this can not possibly even occur. So if the mystery killer is a loyalist ally, it is very important that typhus be killed... Or if there is no mystery-killer-kill then we will b on 5 players, still requiring three votes to lynch. This is impossible if there are two traitors because typus is not active.

If there is another traitor, he can take the number of loyalists down to 2 or 3 that night. 2 or 3 votes will be required to lynch, again impossible if typhus is alive because the game will time out with an impossible lynch.

By that logic, if the traitors manage to fluke and knock off the mystery killer, they will auto-win. If I am lynched today and there is a traitor other than Joan, the traitors are very likely to win.

I see that Owain and Mekboy have been posting elsewhere in the forum as recently as today, but are not contributing.

On a personal note, Manchu, this is pretty much down to you, me and this day phase as far as my enjoyment of this game goes. May the best man lynch! }}]]

"Joan, I have not lied and I am not wrong. I have already addressed those claims, and I grow tired of being required to state that nay-saying does not make an argument.

You constantly state that you are certain I am not the Inquisitor, but this is not an argument either. I simply say in reply that you are a traitor and are lying. You should know that you cannot possibly prove that I am not, so it is more likely that you are lying. You also cannot be 'almost certain', because you would have to be a loyalist to know that I am lying... and I know that you are not.

Unless someone refutes that I am indeed the Inquisitor, you can make no claim that I am not."

The only way to be so sure that someone isn't the Inquisitor would be to actually be the real Inquisitor. Loyalists aren't allowed to reveal their identities to each other, that's why this mystery killer is so mysterious. Both loyalists and traitors wouldn't know who the Inquisitor is, only they would know.

[To the contrary, loyalists may reveal whatever they wish, as long as it is within the game thread. The only other communication that is allowed is between the traitors at night-time.]

I see, then how would the loyalists even know it's true at all? Everyone could just start claiming to be the Inquisitor. Especially traitors, as it seems as if it would make the perfect mask. But, then again it might also be a very bad idea as it's sure to draw way too much attention to them.

At this point, it is pretty much necessary to expose myself, as we have an extremely manipulative traitor, no way of knowing if there is another, an inactive player that makes the game very difficult to win if we make a mistake, and no doctor.

Since my accusal of Manchu was going to bring his wrath either way, I am hoping that we can at least get rid of the confirmed traitor and have an okay chance of winning.

Confirmed?

Arctik_Firangi wrote:You constantly state that you are certain I am not the Inquisitor, but this is not an argument either. I simply say in reply that you are a traitor and are lying. You should know that you cannot possibly prove that I am not, so it is more likely that you are lying.

*sigh* That's completely ridiculous.

- You say you're an Inquisitor.

- I say you are not.

- I say an Inquisitor would not reveal himself at this point.

- I say that only someone who was desperately trying to bolster a failed attempt to frame someone else would claim as much.

- I further suggest that the real Inquisitor will not reveal him or herself at this time and certainly won't expose him or herself to refute you because any rational person can see that you have WEIGHTY MOTIVES to lie about this and can offer NO REASON WHATSOEVER why anyone should believe you.

Given this, you somehow conclude that I am more likely to be lying than you??? Pfft.

n0t_u wrote:Confirmed?

Yes. I am the Inquisitor. I investigated Manchu. Manchu is a genestealer.

I confidently present whatever evidence I can find for him and set a couple of traps (the one sided bargain and the Inquisitor reveal if necessary).

Naturally Manchu denies everything. Naturally Manchu has no evidence against me, and can only react with hostility to his accusal. Naturally Manchu misrepresents what I say and ignores what he cannot.

I have given concise reason for revealing myself at this point, and once again it is being ignored, or denied for the sake of denial, by the guilty party.

Well, I guess we'll just find out during the night phase then. I know the three of us are probably going to be dead before the next day anyway, we're the most active at the moment, thus the only current targets for the traitors. The mystery killer will probably hit one of us, the lynch will take the other and the Bolt Pistol wherever it is will take the last.

- You say you're an Inquisitor.
- Correct

- I say you are not.
- Of course you do.

- I say an Inquisitor would not reveal himself at this point.
- I explain exactly why I did.

- I say that only someone who was desperately trying to bolster a failed attempt to frame someone else would claim as much.
- ...and hence prove that you are unable to regard evidence.

- I further suggest that the real Inquisitor will not reveal him or herself at this time and certainly won't expose him or herself to refute you because any rational person can see that you have WEIGHTY MOTIVES to lie about this and can offer NO REASON WHATSOEVER why anyone should believe you.
- I have an extremely good reason why people should believe me, and your only case is that you can deny it. You are the only one actively attacking the premise. If you are killed and innocent, it just proves that I am guilty, does it not? The consequences are not so dire, if you are loyal, that you would take it so incredibly personally. I am not afraid to die for this cause, but I would rather see you twitching on the end of my sword.


[getting toward 1am here, gotta go to work early so crashin', it's your forum, Manchu ]

Your "reason" for FALSELY announcing yourself is "Joan is a genestealer." That's not an argument. That's a confirmation of why I said you announced yourself--to prop up your failing attempt to frame me for Thor's murder.

I saw no benefit to addressing it again (and more explicitly) since you are basically confirming my argument against you.

***For those of you who can't be bothered to read these pages of text, here is the sum total of Arctik's argument against me:

Arctik_Firangi wrote:Yes. I am the Inquisitor. I investigated Manchu. Manchu is a genestealer.

Oh, also I argued with Thor yesterday.

And a reiteration of my argument:

- Arctik killed Thor knowing he could blame me because I argued with Thor.

- This would look convincing because Thor was innocent, a fact known to Arctik because he is a genestealer.

- He immediately started on this as soon as day began. He also bafflingly accused Lord-Loss of being my co-conspirator. He claimed there was evidence for this but has refused to show examples THREE times.

- When this argument turned out to be very weak--because I saw straight through it--Arctik got nervous.

- Arctik then claimed to be an Inquisitor. He claimed to suspect Orkeo and claimed that this somehow led him to suspect me. He never explained the connection. (He seems to have given up on the Lord-Loss issue now that Lord-Loss is not voting for him.)

- He proceeded to at best misrepresent but more likely lie about about different things he and I had done. I proved him wrong in each instance.

- With n0t_U voting against him, Arctik is sweating hard and desperately trying to obscure these simple arguments. Doesn't look good, Arctik.

((OOC: @n0t_U: I think you are obsessing too much over this bolt pistol. From what I can tell, Drk_O saw my laspistol mechanic in Honoris Causa and offered it for use in this thread. Thor and I both saw that this would be an advantage to the traitors and decried its use. Unless someone has secretly gotten it from the alien and is using it as a night weapon, the chances are that no one has it. If Arctik is killed and turns out to be a genestealer and we do not win, we'll know there is a serial killer. If Arctik turns out to be the serial killer we'll know there is at least one genestealer out there--unless Srk_O changed that, too--and if two people are killed during the night, we'll know that someone is either a vigilante or is using the bolt pistol to act like one.))

OCC: I see, he did say it could be used in the day if I remember right. But, it should be considered a fair bit because it gives someone a free kill. I see it as being as important as lynching.

[Okay, one last post:]

1: I did not kill Thor, but was prepared to be initially suspicious of him if you had turned up dead instead. I still thought you were a better investigation subject, and I was right.

2: I had prepared ahead of time for my assault on you, all of which was based on activity the previous day. There would be no reason to post it if you were not guilty, but lo and behold, you were. You seem to regard that post as if it sums up my entire argument, but there would be no debate between us two until you actually replied. I had intended to test Thor should I have been wrong, but this scenario is irrelevant.

3: I am still unsure about Lord-Loss, but I am sure about you. If there is another traitor, I would go after Lord-Loss, and wanted to make this clear given that I would likely be killed tonight. I also insisted that you were a priority threat, but at this point had obviously not revealed that I was an Inquisitor.

4: You are unable to say with authority that I 'got nervous' - you are only saying so because once again, you are treacherously reprieving your fellows of the advantage of seeing for themselves. You are the one who has reacted with spite and malice, whilst I have pointed out the holes in your arguments. You childishly reply tit-for-tat, and invent false representations of my intent and manner.

5: In the midst of your most unreasonable and raving argument, I announced that I am the Inquisitor. I explained once, and then again, what I said about Orkeosaurus, which was as simple as it was originally stated. I had a gut feeling,and it was right. I did not attempt to make an argument out of it, I merely used the fact as a lead in to my initial explanation of why I was confident to expose myself at that time. I have also recently postulated on my current thoughts about Lord-Loss [previous page] since he stopped voting for me.

6: You are unable to prove me wrong, fundamentally because you are lying, and logically because your precious 'proof' is an irrelevant concept in this context.

7: With n0t_u voting against me, I have calmly addressed the matter, and congratulated the traitor on her success at manipulation so far. I have again refuted every one of your arguments, and you will no doubt bring them up again as if I never did. Lookin' good, Joan.

Unvote: Arctik

Although this will seem foolish to some, I have decided to rethink my vote. Both of you are basing your arguements on the same thing, that the other killed Thor because he was a loyalist. Arctik says that Manchu is a traitor because he is an Inquisitor and investigated him, something they would only no and be unable to proove it to others without first revealing themselves as an Inquisitor. While Manchu seems determined that Arctik isn't the Inquisitor as well, something only the real Inquisitor would know for certain. At best you can really only assume he isn't because he seemed to use it as an attempt to bring people over to his side of thinking. Both side's arguements are actually very simular. Arctik is/isn't the Inquisitor because he didn't/did kill Thor because he was a loyalist, Manchu is really a traitor/loyalist.

No matter how much you stretch it out to look more reasoned, you're argument is essentially "believe me, not Manchu!" and that doesn't refute a thing I've said.

Your statements continue to be riven with problematic holes that indicate that you are lying. But rather than simply say as much, let me provide YET ANOTHER example.

In your fifth point above, you say that you announced that your were an Inquisitor in the midst of my "most unreasonable and raving argument." If my argument was so unreasonable, why did you feel the need to blow your "cover" to refute it? A real Inquisitor would not have wasted that announcement on an "unreasonable and raving argument" that logic alone could have refuted. But you have no logic. At best you have excuses.

@n0t_U: I see your point but I have to insist that our arguments are different in at least one key respect. Mine is not based on at outrageous claim that is MOST LIKELY to be a lie. All I am claiming at this point is to be loyal. Arctik by contrast claims to be an Inquisitor who knew it was me the whole time. That's a lot to swallow, especially considering that Arctik started to make these claims when his first nonsensical theory about me working with Lord-Loss didn't convince any one. Also, unlike Arctik, I have not constantly misled you and contradicted myself. Honestly, I think you are prevaricating in order to be as sure as possible but--and here is the one thing that Arctik and I agree about, despite his accusatory claims to the contrary--you simply aren't going to get any better proof one way or the other about this. Either you find my arguments or his more convincing.

Well, I guess when I think about it if he was going to claim to be the Inquisitor this whole day phase would have been a bad time. If he claimed it before he started his attack on you it might have been more believible, but suspicious that he would even mention that. So I guess this is my shortest unvote ever. It's the holes in his arguement that gives it away. If it was truely a trap, it would have been set out good I guess but executed poorly. Also I guess if a traitor was killed off all the remaining ones would become a bit on edge seeing as there's supposed to be more loyalists then them. It would be good to hear from the others though, they might be traitors as well, but hopefully there is only one left. I guess we'll just have to see how it goes. But, like I said it is very likely that all three of us will be dead before the next day starts, if I'm lucky I might be the only one to survive.

Vote: Arctik
Yes I did read over the last few pages

I was not necessarily going to expose myself at all, and obviously spent a lot of time considering it. My recent breakdown of what will be required to lynch the remaining traitors in the situation where I am lynched today is very grim, and I calculated for that and my other provided reasons (it would be bad for a traitor to counter-claim this early in the game, I felt that more convincing of my case against Manchu was required, and it was a preferable alternative to replying to another of Joan's incessant nay-saying counter-arguments) that it would be for the best. You have ignored my explanations and logic once again, stated that I simply had none, and hence you are lying and misrepresenting me - again.

Likewise, Sister, your habit of making acute points does not disguise the fact that you are arguing in your own defense and no one else's, nor does your penchant for literary invention result in literal proof.

You are unable to address my challenges in any other form than turning them back against me unchanged, and you will not even regard matters that specifically concern you. So excuse me if this sounds familiar, but you have not answered the following... bear in mind that you know perfectly well I am an Inquisitor, and I will not tolerate another contrary or disregarding answer. Answer the question itself, for if you are innocent you have nothing to fear:
Why should you not be killed in order to prove my innocence or guilt when it is more likely that I am an Inquisitor than you?

[aaaaand I'm going to bed]

It's actually not more likely that you're the Inquisitor than I. You clam to be the Inquisitor and I don't--is that what's supposed to make you being the Inquisitor more likely?

If you are killed and I am lying then I get lynched the next day.

If I'm killed, everyone finds out that I'm innocent BUT finds out nothing about you. So one more innocent dies AND, if you are a traitor as I believe, you will be alive and well to continue misleading people.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:(it would be bad for a traitor to counter-claim this early in the game, I felt that more convincing of my case against Manchu was required, and it was a preferable alternative to replying to another of Joan's incessant nay-saying counter-arguments)

Thank you for admitting that you "revealed yourself" out of desperation but you're still lying about it. To wit, I don't know why it would be a bad time for a traitor to counter-claim against you. I can see, as I have already explained, why a real Inquisitor would not counter-claim against you, the FALSE Inquisitor and traitor. To reiterate this is because a real Inquisitor would have nothing to gain from revealing so early (especially against "unreasonable and raving argument") AND he or she could count on the other loyalists knowing this and NOT believing the inevitably false claims that would come out early.

That bolt pistol would actually be quite handy. We could shoot Manchu or Arctik, and then vote depending on their role.

((OOC:We need a prod on Owain))

[vote:Artick]


His he has no evidence, well he has some evidence but it's crappy. His whole argument in based around him being a Inqusitior. I bet he is a traitor, who realised that he couldn't get Joan lynched through reason alone, so he decided pretending to be a Inqusitior would work. But I suspect you all, as we have a traitor and a serial killer in our midst.

Lord-Loss wrote:
His he has no evidence, well he has some evidence but it's crappy. His whole argument in based around him being a Inqusitior. I bet he is a traitor, who realised that he couldn't get Joan lynched through reason alone, so he decided pretending to be a Inqusitior would work. But I suspect you all, as we have a traitor and a serial killer in our midst.

- Because I know that Joan is a traitor, the fact that you also disregard all of my perfectly valid evidence puts you in a bad position for tomorrow. It will be evident either way.
- The fact that you are worried about this 'serial killer,' who has only proven to have killed a traitor thus far, is interesting to say the least.
- My argument is not based around me being an Inquisitor, and you are either a pawn of Joan or ignorant in order to say that it is so.
- Joan, I am more likely to be an Inquisitor because I have claimed to be an Inquisitor. You have not, and no one else has either. I have explained perfectly why is was prudent for me to reveal my identity. It is not an early claim, and I have already explained why. If there are two traitors and I am lynched today, the xenos win, and you know it.

-If the mystery killer does not/cannot successfully eliminate either Typhus (inactive) or Joan/another traitor tonight, we will probably not even make it through tomorrow's day phase.

All this time I have called for an end to distraction, and that we not be made fools of.
Joan has misled all of you, but can not mislead me.

Loyalists beware: If there are two traitors and I am lynched, the loyalists cannot possibly win, because Typus has been completely inactive and cannot provide the vote required to lynch the second traitor following the third night kill.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:Joan, I am more likely to be an Inquisitor because I have claimed to be an Inquisitor.

But . . . gasp . . . I'm the real Inquisitor!!! Dum dum dum! There, now we're even. (According to your logic, we are now each as likely as the other to be the Inquisitor--do you see why this is a poor argument yet?)

Just joking, OF COURSE. If I were the Inquisitor, I would never reveal this early in the game. If I were a traitor, however, and making a lot of weak arguments, I might consider claiming to be the Inquisitor . . . just like "Inquisitor" Arctik here.

Manchu wrote:

Arctik_Firangi wrote:Joan, I am more likely to be an Inquisitor because I have claimed to be an Inquisitor.

But . . . gasp . . . I'm the real Inquisitor!!! Dum dum dum! There, now we're even. (According to your logic, we are now each as likely as the other to be the Inquisitor--do you see why this is a poor argument yet?)

Just joking, OF COURSE. If I were the Inquisitor, I would never reveal this early in the game. If I were a traitor, however, and making a lot of weak arguments, I might consider claiming to be the Inquisitor . . . just like "Inquisitor" Arctik here.

You may call my arguments weak, but you have no other defense against my claim that you are a traitor. You have no actual evidence that I might be guilty other than that you are presenting a contrary situation to mine.

Are you disappointed that you missed your chance to pretend to be an Inquisitor? You have been constantly repeating that I have revealed too early, whilst saying that I revealed too late in the day phase. I have had to state again and again that under the circumstances, revealing myself now is not early, it is practically necessary.

Why don't you address my argument of the outstanding fact that a mis-lynch today will guarantee your victory, scum?

Unlike you, I am actually trying to help people other than myself. 'typhus', the loyalist who has not yet contributed, is our downfall, because he will likely never do anything. If I had not revealed myself in order to damn you, the loyalists may have been tricked by you into thinking that they had time on their side. We do not. Were it not for that factor, I would be comfortable to martyr myself in order to prove my guilt.

If you cannot swallow this, at least try to pathetically explain exactly how it is that I revealed 'too early'.

Manchu wrote:((OOC: @n0t_U: I think you are obsessing too much over this bolt pistol. From what I can tell, Drk_O saw my laspistol mechanic in Honoris Causa and offered it for use in this thread. Thor and I both saw that this would be an advantage to the traitors and decried its use. Unless someone has secretly gotten it from the alien and is using it as a night weapon, the chances are that no one has it. If Arctik is killed and turns out to be a genestealer and we do not win, we'll know there is a serial killer. If Arctik turns out to be the serial killer we'll know there is at least one genestealer out there--unless Srk_O changed that, too--and if two people are killed during the night, we'll know that someone is either a vigilante or is using the bolt pistol to act like one.))

(OOC: While I had read Honoris Causa, I had the idea for the bolt pistol before I had the idea for the Eldar)

Arctik_Firangi wrote:[Drky, I am also requesting a bump of inactive players. Has typhus even posted once? I'm getting tired of contant banter between two-and-a-half people.]

(OOC: I'm getting tired of bumping inactive players. There are so many inactive players.)

Arctik_Firangi wrote:

n0t_u wrote:Confirmed?

Yes. I am the Inquisitor. I investigated Manchu. Manchu is a genestealer.

I confidently present whatever evidence I can find for him and set a couple of traps (the one sided bargain and the Inquisitor reveal if necessary).

Naturally Manchu denies everything. Naturally Manchu has no evidence against me, and can only react with hostility to his accusal. Naturally Manchu misrepresents what I say and ignores what he cannot.

I have given concise reason for revealing myself at this point, and once again it is being ignored, or denied for the sake of denial, by the guilty party.

"Arctik, you say you're an Inquisitor, but you don't really have any proof." said the Eldar

======Voting Count pg19======
Aliving
-typhus
3-Arctik_Firangi (Manchu, n0t_u, Lord-Loss)
2-Manchu (Arctik_Firangi, ghosty)
-Lord-Loss
-n0t_u
-Ghosty
-Mekboy
-Owain

With 8 alive it requires 5 to lynch.

"Ahhh it's come to a good old fashioned 'You're wrong, NO you're wrong' style arguement" sighed the Eldar "Wake me up before someone uses the Bolt Pistol."

(bumping inactive players now)

Arctik, if you are in fact the Inquisitor and are killed that should be enough to galvanize everyone into voting against me. The fact that you fear death so much just confirms my opinion that your lynching, should it happen, will reveal you to be either a traitor or a serial killer.

((OOC: And if people are inactive it means we don't have enough people to play--no one can win or lose, we just have to disband the game.))

Manchu wrote:Arctik, if you are in fact the Inquisitor and are killed that should be enough to galvanize everyone into voting against me. The fact that you fear death so much just confirms my opinion that your lynching, should it happen, will reveal you to be either a traitor or a serial killer.

((OOC: And if people are inactive it means we don't have enough people to play--no one can win or lose, we just have to disband the game.))

"You state that I fear death, and yet the fact remains that I have mentioned it before, and again just prior to your baseless comment, that were our companions contributing, that I would have no fear of my death.

I call for the third... possibly fourth time for someone to explain how we have a 'serial killer'. A single unexpected murder is not a serial killing."

((OOC: Hence you understand why my interest in this game is all about today's result - you can see that the game is broken and you can't lose if I die today. The day clock will time out and you will get your free night kill.))

((OOC: If more people don't get more active then I think we all lose.))

The fact that a genestealer died means one of three things:

(1) The other genestealer(s) killed him in order to confuse us--seems unlikely as there are so few ((active)) people in this game, purposely disposing of one of your allies--perhaps the only one--makes little sense.

(2) Someone is a pro-Imperium vigilante character or is using the mysterious bolt pistol as a night weapon. This seems just as likely as not as this is a closed game with unfamiliar rules.

(3) There is a second classification of traitor, the serial killer, who is not aligned with the genestealers and wants to kill everyone. This seems like the most likely explanation to me.

Manchu wrote:((OOC: And if people are inactive it means we don't have enough people to play--no one can win or lose, we just have to disband the game.))

I won't let that happen, I'll replace people with players who have been lynched so to get a conclusion to the game, should the need arise.

OOC: I think people are starting to lose interest.

Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:I won't let that happen, I'll replace people with players who have been lynched so to get a conclusion to the game, should the need arise.

((OOC: That seems to defeat the purpose . . . wouldn't people just rely on who people were before to attack each other. I think it would destroy the game logic, which is ONLY based on what has already happened and which is all we have to rely upon.))

(We certainly agree on that! [Ooh, replace typhus with Thor! That'll be a barrel of fun!])

Manchu wrote:

Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:I won't let that happen, I'll replace people with players who have been lynched so to get a conclusion to the game, should the need arise.

((OOC: That seems to defeat the purpose . . . wouldn't people just rely on who people were before to attack each other. I think it would destroy the game logic, which is ONLY based on what has already happened and which is all we have to rely upon.))

It would if I ressurected them. It's more of an exchange. If I replaced Orkeo with say, lotg, Orkeo wouldn't be a Genestealer, he'd be an Imperial Citizen as lotg was.

Owain wrote:OOC: I think people are starting to lose interest.

I tried to avoid that as much as possible.

((Im going PM Emperor's Faithful, and ask him to join, I'l PM some others too, who I think would be interested by this, Im very pissed off by the lack of activity, I dont think we should disband the game, but maybe re-start it?))

((I think we should restart the game, but not with Ultrafool and Airmen, replace them with new people. ))

I'm going to add some penalties to the prodding system for Power Roles, because they're vital and should be more active in the game then regular Roles

Power Roles including but not limited to Imperial Sanctioned Psyker, Imperial Inquisitor, Genestealer Magnus, Night Lords Assailant and Agent of the Officio Assassinorum, who are inactive for 3 days or longer will become demoted to their sides lowest role (Imperial Citizen or Genestealer, Night Lords Assailants will become one of the two)

Dont make anymore Genestealers!, it will screw the game up.

Lord-Loss wrote:Dont make anymore Genestealers!, it will screw the game up.

It's not likely to happen.

"Hmm?" The Eldar looks up. "Seems like we have a visitor"

Another ship arrives and boards the ship, the doors open with steam comming out of the door way, and a shadow fills the steam.

"Um, I've got a delivery here for a...Smash? C. Smash?"

EF looks around.

"Oh feth. What the feth is going on around here?"

Behind him the other ship leaves, realising the situation is out of hand.

Emperors Faithful wrote:"Um, I've got a delivery here for a...Smash? C. Smash?"

EF looks around.

"Oh feth. What the feth is going on around here?"

Behind him the other ship leaves, realising the situation is out of hand.

"Do you have anything for me? Issac Matthew David Andrew Heretic?" laughed the Eldar

@Creepy Eldar thing in cage: "Um, no. But if you could just sign here, seeing as the recipient...can't?"

(I have gone back and read as much as I can (16+) )

I find it suspicous that as soon as Arctik_Firangi proposed that Lord Loss and Manchu were in cahoots Lord Loss voted for his lynching.

When Lord Loss withdrew his vote to lynch Arctik_Firangi, I think that he was trying to lay a red herring, becuase it became obvious that Arctik_Firangi was not going to be lynched immediately.

Also, I'm looking at that Inquisitorial Rossette.

[Vote Manchu]

Emperors Faithful wrote:@Creepy Eldar thing in cage: "Um, no. But if you could just sign here, seeing as the recipient...can't?"

"So, you DON'T have anything for a I.M.D.A Heretic?" questioned the Eldar "Well ok, you let me out of this and I'll sign for the package."

EF looks around the room. "Can I do that? You know what, how about I just hand you the clipboard and pen through the bar?"

*moves to give Xenos the pen and clipboard with paper*

The entire room (some slower than others ) shouts "NO!"

As requested by EF by PM

======Voting Count pg20======
Aliving
-typhus
3-Arctik_Firangi (Manchu, n0t_u, Lord-Loss)
3-Manchu (Arctik_Firangi, ghosty, Emperor's Faithful)
-Lord-Loss
-n0t_u
-Ghosty
-Mekboy
-Owain
-Emperor's Faithful

With 9 alive it requires 5 to lynch.

"Tie +1, success" Sighed the Eldar

I have a cunning plan.



It is suspected that either Manchu and Lord Loss are traitors, or that Arctik_Firangi is a traitor.

I propose this. We lynch Manchu. . By lynching Arctik_Firangi we expose ourselves to a powerful alliance of Manchu and Lord Loss (if they are traitors).

By lynching Manchu two situations evolve.

A) He is innocent. Which means the only reasonable conclusion is that Arctik_Firangi is a traitor. In which case the loyalists immediately lynch Arctik_Firangi.

B) He is a traitor. This brands Lord Loss to be in cahoots with him as well. And also proves Arctik_Firangi's innocence.

The only situation where a real problem occurs would be if BOTH were innocent. And in that case we'd be royally screwed.

Who's with me?

I already have a plan, but either can be lynched for it to work.

And why's that?

I'm just assuming that this "serial killer" will kill whatever one is left over, if the one that dies is a loyalist. Makes sense as there doesn't seem to be any worthy targets for them around.

Why don't we kill both of them?

(Manchu first though, lol)

Both will probably die

Then let us aid them.

Come, n0t_u, surely you have not fallen for the busty sister Manchu and her well endowed friend Lord Loss?

Vote to purge the Silly Sister!

EDIT: This is pretty ridiculous. I'm thinking of resigning from this game.

Why?