Vulkan was my desired second lynch, after the_ferrett. So I think you need to rethink things for a moment.
I know I said I'd put more pressure on the_ferrett, as I fully beleive there is very little difference between doing nothing, and doing nothing useful. But I'm not really sure about it atm. As I'm not sure about someone else now.
Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:lol, Thor what game are you playing?
Vulkan was my desired second lynch, after the_ferrett. So I think you need to rethink things for a moment.
You are correct, when I was going back and getting people's second lynch choices I made an error on yours (I choose to blame Gornall since he's not likely to defend himself)
I still think you're scum, though admittedly now my connection from you to DDRE is weaker - what is your opinion of what he said about you here and here?
Thor665 wrote:
Brother Stynier. (Drk_O as second lynch - well, first really)
Could each of you restate why you were voting for Vulkan?
Honestly I voted for him because we needed someone to be lynched otherwise the day would have been wasted, something that would have been less helpful than the sacrifice of Vulkan. This will no doubt make me appear the most scummy but its honest that's why Im going with it.
I still hold Drk_O as one of my "main" suspect, followed by The_Ferret who so far has been using the same tactics Drk_O generally uses, and I have to say Thor sits high up on my list of suspects despite what many of you would call an "Alliance" between us due to our similar votes. As aware as I am that Thor regardless of whether or not he is a Genestealer or not would be vocal it seems that the best place for a genestealer to hide would be in the open rather than hiding in the shadows. My counter point to my own argument is the killing of n0t_u, something which he believed would be a bad thing for the genestealers to do.
BrotherStynier wrote:My counter point to my own argument is the killing of n0t_u, something which he believed would be a bad thing for the genestealers to do.
I do not actually think I said this at any point. It makes perfect sense for the Genestealers to kill an Inquisitor, it's just not what I necessarily expected them to do.
feel free to pursue your 'spotlight' concept if you wish. I will point out that if you, as you have already said, believe that I would be just as talkative whether I was town or a Genestealer that means you really need to find some sort of evidence other then the fact I'm being talkative to suggest I'm a Genestealer. I think being talkative helps town but I will admit it is not proof of being town.
I may have interpreted in a different manner, or misread what you had said at the time.
Being talkative is very helpful to the town role, but someone could also use that position to try and steer people the way they want. Which obviously hasn't worked too well as most people seem to be challenging you. Its a flawed theory and one that gives little evidence as the people doing this generally say things that make sense yet lead to conflict with others.
I may be going off of this because of Manchu's proto-type game and how we worked together as the heretics.
BrotherStynier wrote:I may be going off of this because of Manchu's proto-type game and how we worked together as the heretics.
Fair thought - I will admit my scum game and my town game are intentionally similar so that I'm not easy to catch when I play scum (after all, you don't want it to be an obvious switch otherwise you'll never win when you're scum). However, as a counterpoint I will point towards Drk_O's Genestealer Game 1 wherein Manchu used the "you're so talkative you're trying to control town" case on me. He was scum, I was town. In general I disagree with the case premise since I'd rather have us all talking and being aggressive and will yet again point out that any 'control' I have (again, even though Drk_O wasn't lynched yesterday) is only there if town sits back and just believes everything (or most of) what I say.
Not relevant to this game, but I think in future, this shows it is at least best for the Inquisitor to wait until the second Day Phase before revealing themself.
I am not really sure we learn anything from not_u being killed. After all, even if he was looking at certain people, he still made himself a target for other people if they are the 'stealers.
As for Thor, and those who are saying he may be Hiding-In-Plain-Sight, well, that is possible. However, even if it is true, right now he is the main person driving conversation. I'd advise anyone who does suspect him to save their suspicion for at least two more day phases (including this one), as there is a small chance of him being a 'stealer, which would be a great gain if we lynched him, but a certainty of losing a lot of conversation, which would be a significant loss. Based on risk analysis, you/we should lynch him later, not sooner. Don't necessarily dismiss your suspicions, just save them for a while...
(And before you seize on my phrasing, "you/we", I only say that because I don't want to lynch him at all)
Thor665 wrote:I still think you're scum, though admittedly now my connection from you to DDRE is weaker - what is your opinion of what he said about you here and here?
I heart you too . I've given up trying to convince you otherwise, hopefully it'll come naturally. I think it's a waste though, as I feel you're barking up the wrong tree. The princess is not in this castle.
The two things he said seem to contradict themselves. But I think he means well, but it seemed like he said "Well, we know Drk_O is a Genie, so we'll go find his buddy". While getting over the feeling of deja vu, I feel it never seems to be a good idea, no matter how sure you are. I don't think he was as sure as he sounded though. We'll just have to keep an eye on him for now, like mostly everyone else. "OTL
BrotherStynier wrote:I may be going off of this because of Manchu's proto-type game and how we worked together as the heretics.
Fair thought - I will admit my scum game and my town game are intentionally similar so that I'm not easy to catch when I play scum (after all, you don't want it to be an obvious switch otherwise you'll never win when you're scum). However, as a counterpoint I will point towards Drk_O's Genestealer Game 1 wherein Manchu used the "you're so talkative you're trying to control town" case on me. He was scum, I was town. In general I disagree with the case premise since I'd rather have us all talking and being aggressive and will yet again point out that any 'control' I have (again, even though Drk_O wasn't lynched yesterday) is only there if town sits back and just believes everything (or most of) what I say.
That is a fair point as well, a genestealer could make the claim that I am now making. I have pointed out I believe that you don't really have control otherwise Drk_O would be dead, of course I feel that I may have put people off of that on day one due to my 'attacking' him as some people have claimed.
I can't believe not_u died... He took a heck of a gamble, but I'm shocked the doctor didn't save him, assuming there is one down here.
I really don't know where to go today. I was completely wrong about Vulkan, so now it's time to see if anyone else changed their game after mekboy's death. Or to face the fact we probably have a clever genestealer who won't be so easily discovered.
I agree that Thor does NOT have control of this group. His aggressive use of talking and logic in this game so far have done mostly good for the pro-town, but he has not steered us in the direction he wanted, the Drk_O lynch and indeed joined those of us he thought was wrong at the end, showing he's as much a follower as a leader.
In the back of the Interrogation book is a bunch of notes written down which reads
"Despite my suspicion....lead t.....invest.......ead....innocent" The message hidden forever by claw marks.
OOC: My experiment is done, it is never a good time to reveal yourself to be the Inquisitor. Dispite knowing for certain who is who the information is fairly useless. I guess the best thing to do with your findings would be to subtly guide everyone in the right direction. Go loyalists
My suspicion of Dark_O was rather unfounded, in all honesty I based it on previous experience with him. I thought he would degenerate into posting gibberish and generally clogging up the conversation. While I'm still suspicious of him, he is somewhat in the back of my mind as of now. I'm slightly less convinced he is scum because for the most part he has been helpful thus far.
Call it a vibe perhaps, but I am highly suspicious of Arheiner. He has kept posting fairly regularly in the other genestealer game, yet he has contributed nothing of use to this thread. He seems to be hiding in the shadows, king of the lurkers if you will. Now, being quiet on its own surely doesn't make one guilty however, I feel he has contributed nothing to the conversation thus far and shows a dangerous disinterest in the game. He didn't scum hunt yesterday, nor did he actually help lynch Vulkan(which was a mistake).
So both Arheiner and Shas'o are now my prime suspects, yet I have nothing much to go on.
n0t_u wrote:In the back of the Interrogation book is a bunch of notes written down which reads
"Despite my suspicion....lead t.....invest.......ead....innocent"
The message hidden forever by claw marks.
OOC: My experiment is done, it is never a good time to reveal yourself to be the Inquisitor. Dispite knowing for certain who is who the information is fairly useless. I guess the best thing to do with your findings would be to subtly guide everyone in the right direction. Go loyalists
Edited to fit in more with the death scene
As far as I know you could tell us who you investigated, but your one post is up now we are on our own.
OOC(obviously): Actually its against the rules for me to so you'll never know until the game is over. And with that I can definitely not post until the game is done.
Thorr: Vulkan is dead and I was going with my gut (which was right), My gut still days Drk_O is innocent (no evidence obviously) as for Shas'o. I think he dies too early in each game I've seen him in for me to get a gut reading. Meanwhile, I've seen enough DDRE to know he's not 100% on what he usually is. Perhaps its cause he tends to be more confidant in his non game posts.
I think if the Doctor protected N0t_u it would be a gamble, he could have been scum in diguise and protecting someone like Thor, Bishop or Stynier could have been a better choice, they post regular logical posts and are the backbone of the town.
You are assuming there is a doctor. Or if there is one, he may have just protected himself, the coward!
I still can't get away from thinking that despite Shas'o vera being new to this game, he is still acting scummy with his lack of participation and lack of useful contributon when he does participate. I would urge everyone to consider a vote for him to see if he becomes more involved, as that may allow us to get a better idea of whether he is or is not a 'stealer.
As it is, he may think "Well, only Fifty has voted for me. This saying nothing strategy is working for me with everyone else, so I'll keep saying nothing, and play the wolf-in-lamb-skin amongst the lambs..."
I am not sure I want him lynched yet, but I want him to know it is a strong possibility.
Fifty wrote:Not relevant to this game, but I think in future, this shows it is at least best for the Inquisitor to wait until the second Day Phase before revealing themself.
In my opinion the Inquisitor should generally wait till they have multiple investigation results before reveling themselves (though they should subtly work in the results of their investigations to their posts so in case they die early the info is still there for town to find)
Fifty wrote:As for Thor...I'd advise anyone who does suspect him to save their suspicion for at least two more day phases (including this one)
Eh, in the sens I'm town I agree with this because I'd rather not be mislynched, but in the general sense of the best way to lynch people you shouldn't be setting up 'safe periods' for people. If you find my contributions and activity useful then you should try to also be active and encourage others to be active - that way it doesn't matter if I'm killed because everyone is participating.
===================================================
DRK_O
Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:The two things he said seem to contradict themselves. But I think he means well, but it seemed like he said "Well, we know Drk_O is a Genie, so we'll go find his buddy". While getting over the feeling of deja vu, I feel it never seems to be a good idea, no matter how sure you are. I don't think he was as sure as he sounded though. We'll just have to keep an eye on him for now, like mostly everyone else. "OTL
If you actually came out with an opinion here about DDRE I cannot find it. Other then ferret whom do you suspect (just one or two names) and why?
Also, what are your thoughts of me claiming that BishopGore and LL are townish and I don't suspect them currently?
===================================================
BISHOPGORE
BishopGore wrote:[Thor] joined those of us he thought was wrong at the end, showing he's as much a follower as a leader.
Just to clarify, I didn't consider Vulkan a 'wrong' lynch, I simply considered him as less likely to be a Genestealer then Drk_O. I stand by that vote.
===================================================
DEFF DREAD RED EDITION
Deff Dread red Edition wrote:Call it a vibe perhaps, but I am highly suspicious of Arheiner. He has kept posting fairly regularly in the other genestealer game, yet he has contributed nothing of use to this thread.
This is actually an interesting point - he was active in the other thread while not saying anything in this one.
@ARHEINER - please respond to this accusation.
===================================================
FERRET
the_ferrett wrote:Thorr: Vulkan is dead and I was going with my gut (which was right)
Genestealers would also know that Vulkan wasn't a Genestealer. If you so believed your gut why did you wait so late to say you disagreed with the votes, and why didn't you offer up an alternative? I'll agree with you on shas'o, but I've been saying that before you so really you're agreeing with me. I disagree about Drk_O.
the_ferrett wrote:Meanwhile, I've seen enough DDRE to know he's not 100% on what he usually is. Perhaps its cause he tends to be more confidant in his non game posts.
By non-game posts do you mean posts in the rest of the site? Why would his level of confidence in discussing Ork tactics be applicable to his confidence here in this game? What do you see as his uncertainties that are cluing you into him? Also, do you think I should be concerned that I listed you and him as major suspects of mine Day 1 and now you're suddenly all about investigating DDRE? Are you trying to redirect me?
=====================================================
LORD-LOSS
Lord-Loss wrote:Can a doctor even protect himself?
No, the doctor (Psyker) cannot self protect.
Lord-Loss wrote:Is it me, or has Ferret dramatically changed his play style since last day phrase?
He's talking more now, but I feel he started that near the end of Day 1 - do you see something else?
the_ferrett wrote:I'm just using logic. The more 'pro-town' you are the more you are in the spotlight directing the questions, essentially LL or BG could keep themselves safe by drowning themselves in attention.
DDRE is more suspicious to me based on his relative silence.
And yes, I realise that what I'm saying is middle ground posting is the least guilty looking based on my experience.
Okay, I can logically admit you have a point if you were to make these assumptions. But then again that assumes that all the genestealers were working in concert. A good stealth would be for LL, Bishop or yourself to be highly pro-town and guide the group while the others worked on claiming innocents or pro-town roles.
Between the two that you suggested I'd be more likely to believe in DDRE more than Drk_O though. Is there any secondary proof to back up this logic?
This kind of suprised me, he seems to have ditched the riddles and constant metaphors and may be using logic and trying to catch scum the normal way. It just seemed like a big shift in playstyle for him.
Gentlemen, something has occurred to me, I implore you to look back upon the manner in which n0t_u was killed. Is it just me or does it look like someone other than the genestealers killed him?
There is no evidence to point to the fact that those foul creatures came in the night and killed him, no claw marks, nothing that would suggest they killed him.
So I now come to you with this theory, perhaps the Doctor did do his job and protected someone other than n0t_u because as LL has said maybe he didn't want to take a gamble that the Inquisitor was actually scum.
So perhaps the genestealers attempted to remove someone else, yet the Doctor stepped in and prevented that while a Cultist or Assassin removed the Inquisitor silently in the night out of fear that he may be discovered.
I know when I do the night kills I tend not to differentiate, but you could be correct.
Gornall - do you absolve your story posts of any in-game hints, or is it fair to suppose that by the write-up it suggests that Genestealers did not kill n0t_u?
Thorr and LL: I'm responding better now because you're giving me actual decent questions to work with "Who do you think is guilty? And give proof whether you're sure or not." is as vague as it comes.
Secondly - if I wanted to redirect you, as most people who know me can tell, you'd know you were being redirected. At the moment you're just suppositioning. Why DDRE? Because you gave choices in your previous posts. I've been answering your questions, and each question has been akin to "Between X and Y who is more guilty and why." the difference between that and previous times where I was speaking in 'riddles' is the fact that you now go "This is the evidence collected against hiom so far." This allows me to weigh up the facts instead of stumbling in the dark. Its still alot of guesswork, but the method currently being employed is a good one. That said, LL and BG, apart from being nigh on confusing - why am I suspicious to both of you.
the_ferrett wrote:Why DDRE? Because you gave choices in your previous posts. I've been answering your questions, and each question has been akin to "Between X and Y who is more guilty and why." the difference between that and previous times where I was speaking in 'riddles' is the fact that you now go "This is the evidence collected against hiom so far." This allows me to weigh up the facts instead of stumbling in the dark. Its still alot of guesswork, but the method currently being employed is a good one.
This is interesting. I think your claimed mental leap here is the different methods used during Day 1 (low information Day) and Day 2 (higher information Day). As a basic learning idea I would like you to consider why we have more information today (I submit it's the lynch flip result, plus who voted for said lynch, and also statements made about who people suspected 2nd most). Consider that and then ask yourself again why I was asking "vague" questions yesterday and also why today I feel you are scummy because you were avoiding those questions. I have better reads on many players today because they were able/willing to offer their thoughts on the "vague" stuff, meanwhile you still sit in a lot of the vagueness of Day 1 for me.
Day 3 will be better yet, as we'll have more info to work with.
Now, a vague question - if you had to, by yourself, choose someone to lynch today; who would it be and why?
Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:The two things he said seem to contradict themselves. But I think he means well, but it seemed like he said "Well, we know Drk_O is a Genie, so we'll go find his buddy". While getting over the feeling of deja vu, I feel it never seems to be a good idea, no matter how sure you are. I don't think he was as sure as he sounded though. We'll just have to keep an eye on him for now, like mostly everyone else. "OTL
If you actually came out with an opinion here about DDRE I cannot find it. Other then ferret whom do you suspect (just one or two names) and why? Also, what are your thoughts of me claiming that BishopGore and LL are townish and I don't suspect them currently?
I'm 100% sure Deff Dread is a townie so we should keep him around. Whether he makes it to tomorrow is under doubt with me though.
I agree with you, I don't find either of them suspicious. Although, I find the fact I don't find them suspicious makes me a little suspicious of them (see too good to be true)
Besides ferrett, I find Fifty suspicious, as I don't think I remember him posting yesterday
Thorr: You actually. I find that without outside influence, my estimates rely stongly upon who would be least effected by a 'guiding' force like an inquisitor. Obvious choice is the one already guiding the ship. Which means you. Sorry mate.
@Thor/DDRE-I have been inactive here, yes but thats because I forgot this was playing too for several days, and now i'm back. Just looked over the thread and it looks very blurry right now to me, and no obvious suspects at all. Also interesting is the amount of comparisons with other parts of the forum, Seems more tactics are coming into this game than other ones.
OOC: If I run the next game, how about a reverse of roles with a cult being infiltrated by an Inquistor?
Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:I'm 100% sure Deff Dread is a townie..
I agree with you, I don't find [BishopGore and Lord-Loss] suspicious. Although, I find the fact I don't find them suspicious makes me a little suspicious of them
Fifty posted a fair bit during Day 1, though he was quiet towards the end.
I want you to look at the two parts of your post above and consider them for a little bit. Then I want you to tell me why you're 100% certain on DDRE but that you trust LL and BG so much that you now don't trust them. This makes no sense to me. Theoretically you don't find them suspicious because they haven't done anything suspicious and consequently that suggests they are more likely to be townish, not less likely. If you find them suspicious it should be for a reason other then that they appear to be very townish, yes?
the_ferrett wrote:Thorr: You actually. I find that without outside influence, my estimates rely stongly upon who would be least effected by a 'guiding' force like an inquisitor. Obvious choice is the one already guiding the ship. Which means you. Sorry mate.
If I'm reading you correctly you're saying I am most suspicious because I don't appear to need an Inquisitor to lead me around? Isn't that a state we want all of the town to be in? Presumably my self-confidence in not needing to follow the Inquisitor comes from me having played more games of Genestealer/Mafia then many of the other players here - this in no way seems to then suggest that I am either town or scum - why do you think it's worth making that logical leap to deciding my experience then means I'm a Genestealer?
Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:Besides ferrett, I find Fifty suspicious, as I don't think I remember him posting yesterday
If you look closely, you'll see I didn't post in the run up to the lynch, due to a variety of facts. I was filling in application forms, so was online on the forums, but did not have time to read this thrad sufficiently well to post. Once the ban was in, I could not post, ((except my OOC post to point out it was the night phase to some people)). Since then I have posted again. I'd like to see a breakdown of who has posted the most in this thread, not including filler posts and weasel posts that add nothing.
If my lack of activity was a smoke-screen for a suspicious vote, I would agree with you that it was scummy. As it stands, I was voting for you at the time, along with a few others... Can any conclusions be drawn from that, other than the fact you do not like being voted for? I do not think so.
Arheiner wrote:@Thor/DDRE-I have been inactive here, yes but thats because I forgot this was playing too for several days, and now i'm back. Just looked over the thread and it looks very blurry right now to me, and no obvious suspects at all. Also interesting is the amount of comparisons with other parts of the forum, Seems more tactics are coming into this game than other ones.
I'm not buying it.
"Whoopsy daisy, didn't see you lot were still about and talking." Is an extremely poor excuse. It says to me, either you show disinterest in the game, which is never good or that you were trying to blend into the back round. Perhaps you have something to hide, perhaps not. Yet I can't help but feel it is unlikely that you missed this thread when you were still frequently having looks at the other. They are both in the same forum section, thus missing this one seems unlikely. Plus, your post was a perfect example of talking but not really saying anything.
So, just to get you talking a bit more, whom do you find suspicious?
Ferrett, I find you suspicious because you answer most questions with a question. You don't want to answer vague questions but are happy to be given direct questions. Vague questions are a good way of interacting, you can't ask specific questions until some comments made in a vague question require specific answers.
So you wanted a question from me? Why, when faced with a choice between 2 people and knowing that a lynch is important on day 1 to gather evidence to make Day 2 worthwhile, did you fight it so hard?
I'm impressed that LL thinks I'm a backbone of the town, since I have to admit that I've been so confused by the circles run in this game so far that I've not been posting nearly as much as I otherwise would. That and starting a new job.
Right now I am suspicious of Ferrett (see above) and the comment of Drk_O's of him being so sure DDRE is a townie... I'm unsure what he has done to be so definitely pro town. It's the first really suspicious thing I feel Drk_O has done this game.
I get the feeling that Drk_O is pointing at DDRE and saying "townie" so that when Drk_O gets caught, everyone will think DDRE is a 'stealer too, and lynch DDRE instead of the real 'stealer.
Bishop. Tell me: Which one of these would you be able to answer more easily? "How does diamond work?" or "What is the molecular structure of diamond?" For me, its the second. The first enables me to guess what you want given context, but even then its mostly guesswork, the second enables me to make a thought out and logical decision and points me to the starting point of my search. Sometimes all you need is a good question.(And no this isn't a filler post, this is answering a direct question).
If you asked me how diamond works, I would ask what precisely you meant, but also give you a few snippets of what I thought you might be asking. The idea here is to give out information to let people get a handle on you, to be honest enough to know that sometimes people aren't asking "How does diamond work" but are actually asking "Are you trustworthy? Are you keeping your cards close to your chest or openly talking with us?"
You don't come across as trustworthy. You seem paranoid and uncooperative. That's not pro-town from my point of view.
And who said weasel? Oddly enough I was trying to work that pun into my post on the other thread, but it didn't come across as funny in my mind, so I dropped it.
The weasel thing came from Fifty - saying weasel posts shouldn't count for a post count. I'm not sure what a post count would give us (other then proving I spend too much time on this site) but if someone wants to undertake it more power to them.
the_ferrett wrote:Because I can't see snyone else and saying so would be an admission of inexperience.
Why is it important to you not to admit inexperience (especially since you just did so)?
I'm going to drop down my vote now;
Vote: Drk_O
Yeah, it's nothing shockingly new from me, I know, but I still think he looks scummy. Also, hopefully the vote will encourage him to come explain his DDRE read and how it relates to his LL and BG reads as well. Drk_O's lynch will also give us more info on DDRE, whom I consider pretty scummy in connection with Drk_O but I'm not sure I see evidence of either of them being scummy with anyone else. Also, Drk_O's flip will give us more information on everyone who was/wasn't on the Drk_O bandwagon yesterday.
ferret is probably my second most scummy at the moment. It's hard because I'll admit he might just be really unsure of what to do, but when his unsureness manifests as multiple players (certainly more players then there are Genestealers) requesting he does more 'A' and his response is to immediately do more 'B' I am forced to wonder why he's being so intentionally obtuse about the whole thing. Either he's inexperienced and should be willing to take the lead a little from others, or he should have his own method and be able to explain them. Instead he mostly seems to be sitting around and telling us our methods are weak/bad but he has no alternatives and doesn't want to help us. That's terrible and could very easily be a way for a Genestealer to try to stay under the radar.
I still disagree with the shas'o lynch idea - other then just not posting much I can't think of anything he's done that's scummy. I would like to ask anyone rooting for a shas'o lynch to ask themselves why they're choosing shas'o over Arheiner. If you can't answer that then you need to reexamine your decision.
Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:I'm 100% sure Deff Dread is a townie..
I agree with you, I don't find [BishopGore and Lord-Loss] suspicious. Although, I find the fact I don't find them suspicious makes me a little suspicious of them
Fifty posted a fair bit during Day 1, though he was quiet towards the end.
I want you to look at the two parts of your post above and consider them for a little bit. Then I want you to tell me why you're 100% certain on DDRE but that you trust LL and BG so much that you now don't trust them. This makes no sense to me. Theoretically you don't find them suspicious because they haven't done anything suspicious and consequently that suggests they are more likely to be townish, not less likely. If you find them suspicious it should be for a reason other then that they appear to be very townish, yes?
With Deff Dread, I think I may have read too much into n0t_u's "Gah, you fools" post. In the scrambled part, there was "ead" amongst it, and figured it meant DDRE. While I know posting useful info in such a post is against the rules, I don't think it'd matter much because he was dead anyway.
It makes less sense to me when you explained it. But I think it's something similar to what the_ferrett is talking about. Making themselves look like up standing townians, as a cover for something more sinister. I'm just keeping an eye on them for now.
Of course 'ead' could also be 'dead' or 'read' just as easily. I'm not sure what to think of you trying to base a read of 100% off of n0t_u's post. Even if we were going on the presumption that his message was about DDRE what makes you think the scrambled message was DDRE is innocent as opposed to DDRE is a Genestealer? <--very serious question.
So your 100% clearing of DDRE is based on the concept that n0t_u broke the rules and left us a clue in his death post and that also Gornall missed it/didn't care?
Yeah...I may just stick with the possibility you're a scumpair considering DDRE's commentary about you yesterday.
@ferret - what are your thoughts on this conversation?
@Drk_O - do you still find Fifty suspicious now that he has explained why he posted less during the end of Day 1?
@DDRE - what is your read on Drk_O clearing you? Do you agree/disagree with his logic?
My read would be that not_u said "lead innocent" So he either cleared someone or found nothing in the way the syntax of his sentance read. Either that or his death message has ALOT missing.
I am of course rather grateful, that at least one person believes in my innocents. However, basing it off a disjointed death blurb isn't overly wise. Looking back I do seem scummy, it would be hard for one not to say at least one thing that could be taken as scummy(IMHO).
As for you considering me and Drk_O a scumpair because of what I said about him, and(I'm assuming)the drastic change it has taken. I now have other suspects, and while I still hold Drk in great suspicion(perhaps he is scum, trying to merely make us look like a scum pair), Ferret and Arheiner are now top of my suspect list.
Thor665 wrote:The weasel thing came from Fifty - saying weasel posts shouldn't count for a post count.
Well, that would be in an ideal world. I am nto sure it is really possible to distinguish weasel from worthy in a black-and-white way. It will all be shades of grey, sadly.
I still disagree with the shas'o lynch idea - other then just not posting much I can't think of anything he's done that's scummy. I would like to ask anyone rooting for a shas'o lynch to ask themselves why they're choosing shas'o over Arheiner. If you can't answer that then you need to reexamine your decision.
For me, it is that he has been called on his lack of activity and been asked to explain it, but each time he posts (very infrequent) it is to either say he is inexperienced, or to really add nothing. He just seems to me to be someone who is trying to stay under the radar by being uncontroversial, and needs to be more active so we can make a judgement of whether he is town or 'stealer. With the posting he has done so far, I don't think we have enough to go on, and that desire to hide himself is quite scummy.
I have not been looking as closely at Arheiner, but if what you say is true, I would feel a similar way about him.
I worry that Dark_O has achieved the same as he did in the last game - lots of pressure in the first day phase, followed by attention drifting away. I do feel pressure needs to stay on him too, and I see him as a possible vote towards the end of the day.
Thor665 wrote:So your 100% clearing of DDRE is based on the concept that n0t_u broke the rules and left us a clue in his death post and that also Gornall missed it/didn't care?
Yeah...I may just stick with the possibility you're a scumpair considering DDRE's commentary about you yesterday.
Well, if you put it like that it sounds like I'm crazy. But I never said Gornall missed it/didn't care. I just figured there wouldn't be much he could do about it, or at least n0t_u thought so, or it didn't matter cause he was dead anyway..
@Drk_O - do you still find Fifty suspicious now that he has explained why he posted less during the end of Day 1?
I didn't find him suspicious because he posted less at the end. I found him suspicious because I didn't remember him posting. He didn't leave a lasting impression. Although, that could probibly be our (Thors and I's) fault because of our interactions yesterday.
the_ferrett wrote:My read would be that not_u said "lead innocent" So he either cleared someone or found nothing in the way the syntax of his sentance read. Either that or his death message has ALOT missing.
I didn't consider he would have said "lead" and "lead" in the same sentance.
shas'o vera wrote:well, i know that most of you would call this voting without reason, but im not exactly good at this sort of game, but still, i'll voice my opinion.
vote: Drk_O
It's not really an opinion, you're just doing something.
Most of us would call it voting without reason, because of a couple of things...
1. You didn't state or outline your reason. You didn't even say there was one.
2. You didn't explain your reason.
3. I like fish.
So, with the exception of the 3rd thing, you had none of the above things. (Not that you did, or could do the third)
translation: Look at me post. But don't look too closely. Nothing to see here.
shas'o vera wrote:in my opinion, i think its the one who tries to use as much logic as possible to try and make everyone else seem guilty
Not quite scummy, but certainly very misguided, and possibly a ploy to discredit the use of logic from the outset...
shas'o vera wrote:damn, this may be my second game but im still a bit of a noob at this, sorry about not saying anything that helps anyone in any way.
But not sorry enough to do anything about it. Just a post to say "don't look at me, don't look at me. The reason I am quiet is that I am new, not because I am a genestealer." This is my second game too, and I can post plenty. I think you know exactly how to play, and your chosen method in this game is to play the n00b
shas'o vera wrote:
n0t_u wrote:No, it's not quite that simple. Plus I wasn't doing something to avoid looking scummy I was avoiding doing the very thing that would look scummy which was bandwagoning. I came back to the game today after thinking it through and decided to vote for Vulkan, yet there were a few people before me and if I did it would appear to be bandwagoning, as there would be three in a row.
Thus I simply did a filler post to try to avoid the headache of trying to convince everyone that I wasn't simply jumping on the bandwagon >_>
ah, you decided to stop bandwagoning to avoid looking scummy? in my opinion, this seems like your just trying apease the one's who think that bandwagoning is scummy, but if you tried bandwagoning with those who thought you scummy, then maybe they would give a slightly different opinion of you wouldn't they?
Well, here we see a coherent post that proves he can challenge people when he wants to.
shas'o vera wrote:
n0t_u wrote:Maybe, but being one that sees bandwagoning as scummy it would be a hypocritical move for me
As I've clearly demonstrated in this game, I'm not really looking to be subtle.
So, you quoted not_U, but added nothing...
shas'o vera wrote:yeah, it failed, i know.
shas'o vera wrote:well, what happened was that i was going to comment on his quote, forgot what i as going to say and on top of that my computer crashed halfway through, so what you see was the result of a bad head and a rubbish computer
And when, questioned you just announced that it (the unsuccessful quoting?) failed. Why not explain why you quoted it - what you found interesting about it, or what suspicions it raised? Did you quote it by accident, but know you are not allowed to edit posts? You must have some sort of idea about the post and what it was you wanted to say, even if you can't remember exactly.
shas'o vera wrote:well, as you all can tell im kind of inexperienced at this sort of thing, so i'm not entirely sure who to vote for now, everyone seems to be using logic to stop people voting for them, in my opinion, they all seem scummy to me
Thor already addressed this. I think you find it hard to use logic, because you know you are the 'stealer and thus find it hard to apply logic that proves you aren't, because you are!!
shas'o vera wrote:hmm, well, i was thinking of not casting my vote untill the second dayphase but i guess your plan works as well.
But still, despite acknowledging that voting is a good idea, you don't do it. Is this because you don't want to antagonise people, because it will make people want to vote for you? That doesn't mark you as a 'stealer automatically, if so, but it does make me think you are not thinking from a town perspective, because you should be thinking as part of a large collective, and your methods seem to point to a lone or a small group mentality.
shas'o vera wrote:hmm, by the looks of things, everyone seems to be going to lynch Dark_O personally i woulud vote for him because he hardily tries to contribute to the disscussion at all, and because he hardily ever posts anyway. but i only wish for him to explain himself, nothing more.
Vote: Dark_Obliterator
but on one condision, that my vote doesn't lead to his lynching.
Did you target Dark_O because he already looks like getting lynched, so if he does then even if he votes against you, it won't matter 'cos no-one will side with him? I mean, the funny thing is about this post, is that I feel a similar way about you. I am voting for you to make you write more. You almost started interacting with someone in one of your earlier posts (not_u), but then you backed away from that approach again. I want you to do more of that. If you do, you, then you may convince me with what you write that you are innocent, or you may convince me you are guilty. As it is, I would be perfectly happy for you to be lynched.
shas'o vera wrote:may i ask, what exactly leads you to believe that i have an anti-town role in all this? for all you know i could be the inquisitor or another one of those type of roles.
He already answered that. He said that it was because of your posting patterns after a townie got turned 'stealer. Did you ask a question in return to avoid answering his question?
shas'o vera wrote:A night time post Shas made that he shouldn't have, so I won't comment on it
shas'o vera wrote:hmm? what have i missed? my computer is really gakky today, and i cant be on very much do to the damn GCSE's and the exams and the course work
What have you missed? I can understand that it is hard to keep up sometimes, and you want to post just to show you exist. As a teacher I also know GCSEs are a hard time, and that when I was filling in job applications I was a bit absent too, but cmputer gakkiness should not be a factor. This doesn't mark you out as scummy, I will admit.
shas'o vera wrote:well, i know that most of you would call this voting without reason, but im not exactly good at this sort of game, but still, i'll voice my opinion.
vote: Drk_O
You keep saying you are not good at this game, and yet you are good enough to know we will say this is voting without reason. I think you know exactly why you are voting Dark_O - because you know he is likely to be the next lynch. But, you can't admit your reason, so you just say "I don't know why".
I'll tell you one thing, everyone - If Shas does turn out to be a 'stealer, I don't think Dark_O would be one too.
In summary of the previous posts, I believe Shas'o vera's strategy is to stay quiet so as not to antagonise anyone, hoping he thereby avoides getting voted for. If anyone challenges him, he claims n00b status, admits his failings, but does nothing to address them, as this would involve pointing a finger, something he heas decided not to do to avoidn getting any pointed back at him.
Fifty has a good post, also Drk_O (though I almost rue having to admit it) did a very townish and sensible reply to shas' post as well.
I would personally like to see another 2-3 votes on each of them, or for someone to present a case on a third party. I think more votes will help pressure shas to do...well, anything, and also I'd like more votes on Drk_O for my aforementioned theory concerning him and DDRE - at the very least I think people ought to be willing to offer their opinions on the connections I'm seeing and also their opinions on Fifty's case against shas.
Shas was my number two suspicous and I wanted to give him a chance to clear his name. I doubt he will provide an explanation for his behaviour. I'll vote now, but as a pressure vote. Not sure about lynching him yet.
3 Things I found interesting about that above long post:
1- While he did pester not_u, Shas has only ever voted for Drk_O. That is if Fifty got all of Shas's posts. If so, Thorr might have a fan
2. Fifty never loses sight of the fact that he sees Shas as innocent, that in itself is more syntaxly curious than scummy curious, but is something to consider as most posters at least doubt the guilt of their target when going through every single post made by them
3. For what amounts to a very righteous post, he does have a point.
1. I am almost certain I got all of his posts. I went back through his list of posts in his profile.
2. Do you mean "never lose sight of the fact I see him is guilty"? I am not 100% sure he is guilty, but I am a lot more than Fifty/Fifty. (See what I did there? ) I am willing for him to convince me he is innocent, I just can't see it happening. Right now, he is someone we can afford to lose if I am wrong, because as a townie, he adds nothing other than a warm body. There would be no reason for 'stealers to consider targetting him, because there is no way he would find them. If Thor, for example, is pro-town, then eventually we can expect him to find some 'stealers. I really do get the vibe that he is "acting n00b" though, as a strategy rather than a fact.
3. I don't think I have a cast-iron case, but I think the case for Shas is stronger than for anyone else at the moment.
If Shas'o does post something, anything that makes sense tomorrow, I shall unvote him. As I will vote for him in a sec because he is...
a)voting without visible reason
b)posting without saying anything useful (opinions and such)
As Fiddy pointed out last page you voted for me for the reasons that I'm going voting for you now. So I shall put it into words I'm sure you can understand
hmm, by the looks of things, everyone seems to be going to lynch Shas'o personally i woulud vote for him because he hardily tries to contribute to the disscussion at all, and because he hardily ever posts anyway. but i only wish for him to explain himself, nothing more.
Vote:Shas'o
but on one condision, that my vote doesn't lead to his lynching.
We need to hear more from Arheiner, shas'o, BishopGore, and Brother Stynier.
A good starting point for all of you would be weighing in on the Drk_O, shas'o, and DDRE suspicions.
It also feels like ferret is slipping out of focus - but I'll admit this is happening for me as well. I think the Drk_O/DDRE connection is one of the most valid and functional connections we have at the moment. Also, ferret isn't being very helpful, but sadly enough he's more helpful then either Arheiner or shas which does put him below them on my scumdar at this particular point.
I see the case on shas now, but I'm not sure why it seems more popular then the case on Arhenier (except maybe insomuch as DDRE is starting the Arheiner case and I see a high likelihood he is scummy - but lots of the pro shas wagon players don't seem to share this belief). Both of them need to start participating if they're pro-town roles as otherwise they are hurting us with their silence.
Thor665 wrote:We need to hear more from Arheiner, shas'o, BishopGore, and Brother Stynier.
A good starting point for all of you would be weighing in on the Drk_O, shas'o, and DDRE suspicions.
It also feels like ferret is slipping out of focus - but I'll admit this is happening for me as well. I think the Drk_O/DDRE connection is one of the most valid and functional connections we have at the moment. Also, ferret isn't being very helpful, but sadly enough he's more helpful then either Arheiner or shas which does put him below them on my scumdar at this particular point.
I see the case on shas now, but I'm not sure why it seems more popular then the case on Arhenier (except maybe insomuch as DDRE is starting the Arheiner case and I see a high likelihood he is scummy - but lots of the pro shas wagon players don't seem to share this belief). Both of them need to start participating if they're pro-town roles as otherwise they are hurting us with their silence.
as far as i can tell, you seem to be leading all the others just to try and take suspition off yourself, do you have an explaination for this?
Single sentences without any actual evidence for why Thor is suspicious is not enough.
He is taking a prominent role, yes, and time may show him to be a 'stealer, but he is not leading us, as hardly anyone is voting how he wants them to.
His explanation for taking a leading/prominent role is that he is trying to encourage other people to think for themselves and to actually put work into uncovering the 'stealers.
Please tell us what he has done that is scummy other than try to encourage people to find genestealers, which does not seem all that scummy to me. It may well be there, but someone will need to point it out.
Fifty makes a very good point that Shas'O is a doofus. He's horribly all over the place and not hugely interested in the game.
I'm really undecided on Drk_O, with this seeming connection to DDRE which doesn't seem to stem at all from DDRE himself, but from Drk_O making a weirdly suspicious comment and then not qualifying it at all.
Ferrett remains suspicious to me, he's started to get a bit more involved, but is still avoiding making any firm commitments in any direction.
That being said, putting further pressure on Drk_O has to be a priority for us, we need to understand more of what may be going on and I think Drk_O may be the key role.
Shas. Thorr already responded to this question a couple of pages back when I asked it. He said that although he's like not to have to, the silence of people forced him to try to keep the momentum going. That you've asked this question when its already been asked twitches my brain a little.
BishopGore wrote:I'm really undecided on Drk_O, with this seeming connection to DDRE which doesn't seem to stem at all from DDRE himself, but from Drk_O making a weirdly suspicious comment and then not qualifying it at all.
That being said, putting further pressure on Drk_O has to be a priority for us, we need to understand more of what may be going on and I think Drk_O may be the key role.
Vote: Drk_O
I'm pretty sure I did.
Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:With Deff Dread, I think I may have read too much into n0t_u's "Gah, you fools" post. In the scrambled part, there was "ead" amongst it, and figured it meant DDRE. While I know posting useful info in such a post is against the rules, I don't think it'd matter much because he was dead anyway.
It might not be a really good reason, but it's the right answer.
Well, Dark_O is at least explaining himself. Although, the last game he did a good job of trying to explain himself only after we already knew he was a 'stealer, so that doesn't rule it out this time...
I don't see much of a link in all honesty, Drk_O thinks I'm innocent, yet I still hold him in suspicion. Yesterdays comments where I affirmed he was indeed at least in my mind 100% scum, are starting to get less sure. He seems like he is trying to contribute and help. However as Fifty has pointed out, he did indeed do a good job of explaining himself last game, as well as being rational and clear when he wanted to be. So this bout of seeming rationality and helpfulness on his part might all be a clever stealer ploy.
Moving along, I think that I am ready to say Vote:Arheiner. He again posted in another game, and yet ignored this one. While the post was a short one, it shows to me that he is either disinterested in this game(having divided attentions might be the cause, yet Lord Loss is to engaged in another game yet he frequently posts here) or perhaps he is trying to skirt around this game, passing just under the radar. I feel he is, as stated before,"King of the lurkers," his remarks always add little and he never speaks much. My first thought was to vote for Shas, however he seems at least as if he is trying to post, plus putting him two away from a lynch wouldn't be overly wise(IMHO)when we still have some discussion going.
shas'o vera wrote:as far as i can tell, you seem to be leading all the others just to try and take suspition off yourself, do you have an explaination for this?
Personally I don't think there has been much suspicion of me. If you'd like to keep me in the spotlight of discussion then vote for me and say why you see me as suspicious and we can discuss it. I can only shift suspicion away from myself i nobody is talking about how suspicious I am. If you're town I'd rather have you voting me and being active then doing whatever it is you think you're doing.
Deff Dread red Edition wrote:I don't see much of a link in all honesty, Drk_O thinks I'm innocent, yet I still hold him in suspicion.
I'll re-state the case again.
You announce Drk_O as very suspicious to you, but say you want to keep him alive longer (translation; he's my stealer buddy, I know he looks guilty, but let's focus on lynching some other people first, m'kay?)
Drk_O, when questioned about you, announces you are 100% town in his eyes, and uses n0t_u's death post as his only evidence for this belief - meanwhile he also lists off some other townish players like Fifty and LL and declares them as maybe suspicious because they look so townish.
Both of you are being *very* odd in how you talk about the other. That's why I want to lynch one of you. I personally think Drk_O has looked more scummy other then this so he's my preference of the pair since I have only seen DDRE act odd when talking about Drk_O.
Thor makes a good point, but I need to either look back through Dark_O and DDRE's posts myself, or hope that someone will do the job for me...
((ooc, as a warning, I have the four busiest days of my working year coming up from tomorrow, followed by a big Friday night out. I should still be able to post once a day or so, but I would be grateful if people could cut me a little slack if I fail to post much until the weekend. I am warning in advance incase something happens to make my quietness look suspicious.))
edited to correct botched italics within seconds of posting.
Well I can see your point, however I do think that paraphrasing as such makes it sound a little more suspicion then it was. Now, I will not dispute that my actions on that night were strange, I explained it by saying that I was tired and rectified my statement saying that I did believe him scum, yet would like to confirm it through more conversation. Stating that I thought he was scum and would like to keep him around, sounded less scummy in my head. To my logic at the time, keeping him about while trying to find his partner seemed a fair idea. In hind sight, keeping around scum is not a good idea, and I see that now. However, I now have another prime suspect and am less suspicious of Drk_O.
I just can't seem to spell tonight, edited to fix a spelling mistake.
Harder being scum then I expected. (Not talking about this game before I get jumped on )
I'm getting more suspicous of Arheiner and his lack of posting. I've seen him talk in the other current game and this thread hasn't been on page two since it started.
Actually it was on page 1 at the start. I'll see what I can do for posting tonight, tomorrow is my Birthday and i'm gaming then anyway so not much of a chance then.
As for the Links between DDRE/Drk_O and me being scummy, then expalain to me why DDRE would put pressure on me and try to clear Drk_O. I can understand people being suspicous of me but doesn't that mean 1 side or the other has to be innocent, or both sides if they are pro-town
I do not see a link between Drk_O, DDRE and you, nor have I said as such. I see a link with DDRE and Drk_O.
DDRE suspects you for ducking this thread whilst posting in the other Genestealer thread, I actually agree with his suspicions, but am somewhat reserved in that regard because I have suspicions of him.
Frankly right now I still want to see Drk_O or Ferret removed, Shas is up there as someone that needs to go and I'm still having a wary feeling towards Thor but its just a feeling.
but maybe Arheiner just doesn't have the time to post in both threads? maybe he has set his priorities and has chosen this game second to the other one? couldn't that be the case?
Stinner, what makes my guilt anymore?
Arheiner - If DDRE is guilty due to defending Drk_O, what does that make Shas when he's defending you? Aren't the two synonymous?
The link I think, stems from Drk_O rather than myself. I did indeed make a rather silly claim earlier yesterday, stating that I thought him scum and would like to keep him around and find his partner. Which I know see is a horrible idea, yet I must say that my need to keep him around was based on the fact that I wasn't 100%. I still find Drk highly suspicious, and most of the link now seems to stem from him.
As for Shas's question, I find the excuse that he has more vested in another game to be a silly one. Drk is running that game, yet he still posts in this one regularly. Arheiner having his priorities elsewhere is a large part of my argument, this disinterest in the game can only hinder us and even when he posts, nothing much is ever add by him.
I don't think Shas is defending Arheiner specifically, so much as being generally against lynching anyone at all.
Wrt to DDRE's post just above mine...
Maybe Arheiner is scum in that game, and therefore finds it more interesting, whilst he is a regular cit in this one, so is bored by it? Personally I find being a regular powerless cit more interesting, as it is a more challenging role in many ways, due to having less personal influence and having to work with others, but I suspect many people prefer to be scum so that they can be "cool and different".
The other logic is that he does not need to post here, as he already knows who the 'stealers are (ie him) whereas he is posting a lot in the other game as he is scum-hunting...
I'd like to hear people's opinions on both possibilities.
Really, until we have a flip in either game it's difficult to guess at. I do consider Arheiner's activity level in this game less then his activity level in another game wherein he was town - which makes him more suspicious to me.
Clearly everyone in the other game should lynch him so we have a better value call to assess him at for this game.
@shas - how would you feel about lynching arheiner today?
@Arheiner - how would you feel about lynching shas?
well, i may just sound like some of the other players that have commented on the way i have posted, but i think that he doesn't really contribute anything, also because of his lack of interest, i dont really think that there is any reason for him to still be here.
also, i do agree with the point that Fifty made earlier, maybe he could be one of the genestealers.
just out of interest do we have anything that discredits what Fifty said?
OOC: I have to say that playing in 2 games at once is very difficult, especially with several players being alive in both. I keep almost quoting Ferrett from this game in that one >.<
IC: I'm feeling awful, I can't seem to get a handle on anyone and I know I'm letting the side down because most of my posts lack any real depth or substance. I completely forgot that Drk_O had indeed come up with an excuse for his comment, as ridiculous as it was, but the more ridiculous the excuse the more sense it seems to make... why make up something that silly when you could make up something cleverer, Drk_O is an intelligent guy, he'd come up with something better...
However, the day is wearing on and I'm not seeing any other concerted movement anywhere in the game, so my vote is staying put. Thor has made so much sense for the last Day and a half that I feel he deserves some support, and Drk_O is definitely fishy, whether the link between him and DDRE exists or not.
shas'o vera wrote:but arn't i contributing right now? i explained my reasons for thinking that Arheiner should be lynched.
Well that was a quick turn around, one minute he might be innocent, the next you want to lynch him. Anyway, as to you contributing, you are, sort of. You are indeed showcasing an opinion however it isn't overly thought out, and is basically an exact mirror of my case. Yet what I find more frustrating is the lengths other posters have to go just to get you to post something, or share your views. It feels as if we have to use some sort of slow water torture to erode your wall of apathy just to get the smallest morsel of thought from you. You never really contribute much, and have to be beg just to share said opinions, I mean you didn't even try to counter what Fifty said about you earlier in the thread. Even your said contribution post wasn't much, Thor's post actually asked how you'd feel about lynching him, you then basically described why you think he should be lynched, yet said nothing about how you feel about it. So it came of as a bit of a,"Yeah, lets do that then," kind of post.
Your radical flip from questioning my post on his guilt, and now your apparent want to lynch him now is suspicious. You seem just to follow the general voting trend or opinion, while this could be that you just agree with the opinions, the radical flip speaks otherwise to me. Perhaps scum trying to blend in just a bit too much.
Thor665 wrote:Really, until we have a flip in either game it's difficult to guess at. I do consider Arheiner's activity level in this game less then his activity level in another game wherein he was town - which makes him more suspicious to me.
Clearly everyone in the other game should lynch him so we have a better value call to assess him at for this game.
@shas - how would you feel about lynching arheiner today?
@Arheiner - how would you feel about lynching shas?
I find that as in the previous game, Shas'o makes himself suspicious but is impossible to get a read on, although if we lynch him at worst it simplifies things for us, so I don't have a problem with it.
If he makes himself suspicious - isn't that a read on him?
I asked both shas and Arheiner for their reads on each other because of shas' odd defense of Arheiner on Page 13. This was the only time shas really came out with any sort of defense and it was on Arheiner of all people(!?!).
Now shas is clarifying that he's okay with lynching Arheiner and Arheiner says shas is hard to read but that he looks guilty(!?!).
I had previously said I thought shas was just playing his usual town game, but will accept this is a little odd. I personally am getting more of a negative vibe from Arheiner, also I have the most negative energy towards Drk_O and shas is voting Drk_O. So of the pair I would prefer to lynch Arheiner first.
My lynch preference Drk_O
Arheiner
some other player yet to be named but I'm sure it will be brilliant when I do so.
@ferret - what's your read on the shas/Arheiner situation? Are you still unsure about what to do with your vote?
Can we please get a vote update? Also, when is our lynch deadline, please?
I will probably be sticking to a Shas vote this time around. If something huge happens, I will be prepared to switch my vote, but otherwise I am solid until we see who gets lynched and what happens in the ensuing night phase.
People quote me? I'm getting a little concerned about that. Especiall as Shas used my logic in the hatemobile on Thorr. I mean, if I had a stronger case, sure, go ahead.... but with the gut feelings I've been pulling? Then you have the Shas/Arheiner contradiction (go me?).
@ferret - in the past you've expressed extreme doubt about voting before enough evidence appeared to make you feel comfortable. Has such evidence appeared now for shas'o?
First: He joined on my suspicion of you, when I hadn't provided a compelling arguament.
Second: Shaso defends Arheiner, even after Arnheiner says that doing so looks suspicious.
Third: There was already suspicion in his direction, enough for him to be in the running.
I'm sticking to my position against Shas'o, I feel that he's still the best option to lynch at the moment.
Other than that, I'm not sure who else should be lynched. The other bandwagon is against me, so none of the arguements jump out as something I'd agree with. And it's spearheaded by Thor and Stynier. Both of which I'd rather have around as they're usually, hell they are, good for town. But as I said before, the Princess is not in this castle.
However, I would like to know why Arheiner and DDRE aren't voting.
You want me to reiterate the entire argument I have made from pretty much the start? How about you go back and read some of my other arguments, because they haven't much changed.
I feel that over the past 5-6 days, DDRE has been contributing a lot, Thor a bit less than normal, but still very reasonable, some from Bishopgore, some from Dark_O, more than normal from Ferret, but very short posts...
I'll clarify that I'm contributing less because others are contributing more - but other then that I think your reads are correct.
Conversation has been slowing down again and I think it's time we had another lynch and flip. The battle lines are pretty obvious on the shas/Drk_O fronts, and I think Arheiner is a fair option as well.
Of the three my lynch preference is;
Drk_O
Arheiner
shas'o
in that order. I'm actually still fairly lukewarm towards shas'o but less then I was, I feel Drk_O is scummy and I think Arheiner is a better option to lynch to figure out the shas/Arheiner connection I've mentioned.
I'd like for people to start talking about who they'd be willing to lynch or to start up another discussion topic. If we have nothing better to discuss/ask then we ought to get on with the lynching to keep the game moving.
I'm pretty set on a Shas lynch, no one I find particularly suspicous besides him. I guess Arheiner is my second most suspicous cause of the lack of posts mainly. Not sure what to make of the DrkO, Dread link. Apart from the one comment from Dread is there much to go on?
No, there really isn't. But unless you think they're incredibly dumb they wouldn't be likely to make a lot of mistakes, especially after I called them on it. I don't think either player is dumb.
You could - but I'd want you to differentiate why shas is so lynchable as compared to Arheiner. The bulk of the shas case still seems to be - he's lurking, which is not an unreasonable scumtell but makes me wonder how you differentiate him from Arheiner who has done the same thing and has, as DDRE pointed out, been posting in the other game while lurking here. Does that not tingle your scumdar at all as a more obvious scummy avoidance of posting as opposed to a perhaps more benign shas lurking due to workload?
The whole argument I think, may be summed up as such,"He never much posts, and even when he does, it is either scummy or not of any use."
The day is coming to a close, my current vote for Arheiner is not helping the group at all.I feel I must...
Unvote:Arheiner
and
Vote:Shas'Overa
His lackluster logic, nonsensical play style, coupled with him never contributing anything of help and us having to pry every bit of information out of him, make him suspect. Perhaps he is a sort of stealer smoke screen, perhaps just a frightened newbie, however he isn't much helping anyone and is being mighty confusing and scummy along the way.
Thor665 wrote:You could - but I'd want you to differentiate why shas is so lynchable as compared to Arheiner. The bulk of the shas case still seems to be - he's lurking, which is not an unreasonable scumtell but makes me wonder how you differentiate him from Arheiner who has done the same thing and has, as DDRE pointed out, been posting in the other game while lurking here. Does that not tingle your scumdar at all as a more obvious scummy avoidance of posting as opposed to a perhaps more benign shas lurking due to workload?
Or am I missing something?
I think that for me personally Arheiner seems to have a low post count, whereas Shas seemed to be trying to avoid posting, make excuses for it and generally put too much effort in seeming like his low post count was natural as he is a n00b.
I will take a closer look at Arheiner next Day Phase, if you like, but I put quite a lot of time and effort into a close look at Shas, so maybe someone else could do Arheiner?
I will say though, that now Arheiner is not voting at all, that makes me feel a bit suspicious about him, and that he may well warrant another close look.
Yet again Arheiner both posted and voted in another Genestealer game, surely he couldn't have missed our appeal for him to vote. He seems to be skirting around the issue a bit too much, which makes him highly scummy.
On the voting, I'm happy with my vote for the moment, yet we need to get a lynch today, if only to thin the pool of possible stealers. So, if it comes down to me having to switch votes for a lynch I'd do it.
the_ferrett
Drk_O
Arheiner
Shas'O
Other people who as yet I cannot differentiate
I think ferrett's actions so far have been anti-town and generally caused more hassle than anyone else.
Drk_Obliterator has been generally scummy/hard to read, but most of that is gone through in Thor's posts
Arheiner, as quoted, has been generally lacklustre in posting here, whilst fairly interested in the other game.
Shas'O... sorry, but you're either scum or incredibly bad at discussing what is going on.
Okay, conversation has all but stalled, we need to end day 2 with a lynch. Since most of those voting for shas'O seem to be fairly set on the idea, do any of those of the Drk_O wagon feel the case against shas is enough to lynch him over? If so, would anyone of them consider switching sides?
I'd rather kill of Drk_O as I feel he is scummy, something Thor and I have stated since the start. Shas I feel is suffering from not knowing exactly what to do as he is relatively new to this and hasn't picked it up as quickly.
That being said that will pose an issue to us later, so if need be I can vote for him, but I implore one of the other to switch their vote and remove Drk_O.
Its Saturday, we need someone by Monday. _Noone_ claim this vote is for anything but getting a town lynch. I don't like this, but I'm not letting us sink because we have some stubborn fools.
If you vote for someone - yes, it counts and people will and should hold you accountable for it. Second, what's up with the dramatic speeches - we have till Monday, that means there's still a couple of days to sort out the whole affair.
Unvote: Drk_O
It's a little too late at night for me to consider this right now. I want to do a re-read and will hopefully come back with some other thoughts. I'm worried now that both of our choices are wrong.
I'll be back by Saturday with a vote and some thoughts
BrotherStynier wrote:Im a little worried that no one bothers to challenge us and some even automatically assume we are pro town Thor. Shouldnt they look into it more?
Eh, this is hard to make any flat declarations on. At the most basic level we are all looking for scum (well, except for the scum, of course, they are just fake looking). To look for scum you have two tools available to you in the most absolute sense. One of them is looking for things that are scummy or that scum would be more likely to do. This gives you a list of people who are more likely scum. The second is looking for things that are townish or that town are more likely to do, this gives you a list of people who are less likely to be Genestealers and consequently hopefully helps make your scum list even more accurate.
At the moment I have no less then four players who I am currently not worried about at all because I do not believe them to be Genestealers. Hopefully this will make my hunting more accurate. As each day proceeds you have to be willing to keep reassessing your beliefs about who is town and who is scum, and of course as the suspect list becomes shorter the more 'townish' people will need to be more and more townish to not have themselves on a suspect list.
That all said, I of course encourage everyone to scumhunt in the manner they feel most comfortable with just so long as they can explain their methods to some degree or other.
Have I been posting less lately? I've spent all week trying to think of 5 things I'm good at as part of filing out an app for GW, which is more difficult than it sounds...
Hmmm... So... I'm almost lynched again, and the ferrett thought he was the lynching vote...
I'm perfectly fine with being lynched this DayPhase now, well, other than losing a towny, of course. I've been too much of an attention vacuum this game, and with me out of the way, the focus can redirect towards others. Like that Weasel guy.
So if it looks like we're going for a no-lynch situation, I'll vote for myself if it's a decider.
So, my current lynch preferences are
1. Shas'o: shows a massive disinterest in the game
posts without saying anything
Votes without reason
I see a possible connection (albeit very weak) link between him and the_ferreeettt, based on his quick rewording of teh_ferrett's suspicions of Thor.
2. The_Ferrett: While he has started doing abit more, I feel he should pay attention abit more when voting!!(current number voting required for lynch is 6 bro)
3. Arheiner: Is hazardously neglecting this game, but he just doesn't jump out at me to be of any importance at all.
4. Drk_O, for the reasons stated above.
I would like to hear more from Lord-Loss though...
I must agree with LL on this, conversation is all but done for today, we need someone to either switch to Shas or Drk, we've got nothing much left to say. It will only hurt the town if we don't lynch our suspected scum.
Okay, I've thought this over and here are my thoughts.
My big concern of the day is ferret's last minute shift with the belief it was a hammer vote. Considering ferret was also sitting on shas for so long and made such a big deal out of needing evidence for a vote his sudden shift to Drk_O strikes me as odd since I'm pretty sure we're still trying to lynch Drk_O on the same case I had yesterday, as I don't recall thinking anything Drk_O did today was particularly scummy. My big concern now is that ferret is scum and neither Drk_O or shas are scum (I personally don't really buy the shas=scum case myself, so now that ferret is okay voting Drk_O and, in fact, thought he hammered him I really don't see a ferret/Drk_O scumpair and that has me worried about my reads.
This all said, I'm going to;
Vote: Drk_O
Because I still don't like that spot's actions and also I really want to flip either it or DDRE in order to alleviate some suspicions of mine.
@ferret - what was the evidence change that happened to now make Drk_O a viable lynch for you?
@Drk_O - if you're town please do not self-hammer. Town wants to lynch scum, a no lynch is better then a town lynch, and since you would know whether or not you are town you shouldn't self vote.
I was considering moving over to Shas on Sunday if there had been no movement in the ranks, but with Ferrett, my top suspect suddenly flinging himself dramatically onto the guns (I love big dramatic posts which fizzle dramatically within moments when everyone looks at them and says "urrr, what?") I'm really not sure what to think.
Shas is one step further from a lynch and Drk_O is one step closer. However we now have 4 people on Shas who don't want to move rather than 4 people on Drk who don't want to move. And of course Arheiner.
A few things have been said towards the end of this day phase that are going to make me change the way I am thinking about a few people tomorrow. Shas will still be on my list if he doesn't get lynched today, but a lot of other things will change.
I am pretty firm on my vote for Shas right now, and do not wish to change, but I will make my final decision on whether to switch closer to the deadline.
I will say this though - Drk_O is a huge bluffer, but maybe hasn't bluffed so well this time. He has said he wouldn't mind dying if it helps the town, presumably on the basis he wins whether he survives or not if town wins. However, I think that most people still want to survive even if town wins. People like to win and survive. Is he thinking-like-a-'stealer-thinking-like-a-cit? Or is he just the ideal cit?
*sighs* I made the comment because I _still_ don't see Drk_O as guilty.... but with less than 24 hours left I'm concerned we'll be wasting a whole day phase because people are stubborn.
By the way, this is the 3rd time I've been accused of not being able to count in one of these games. I assumed those on the Shas team were less stubborn and arrogant than those on the Drk_O team. I have been proven wrong. And now Thorr is talking about how well it is to not get a lynch at all. Thankyou Thorr.
There is a difference between having a no lynch, and having a lynch through a townie lynching himself - I can explain it more if you wish, but I feel the logic is evident.
Also, you have just admitted you don't think Drk_O is scummy...why would you try to hammer him then?
Thor665 wrote:@Drk_O - if you're town please do not self-hammer. Town wants to lynch scum, a no lynch is better then a town lynch, and since you would know whether or not you are town you shouldn't self vote.
I know, but as I said previously, I'm too much of an attention vacuum this game.
I've thought this over. Say we lynch Shas'o today...
1. He turns out to be scum, everyone suspects me because I almost stopped him from being lynched. Some of you aren't sure whether this was to try and protect him, to stall for time for a "no lynch" result, or whether it was all a coincidence. But I get lynched none-the-less.
2. He turns out to be town. (See today, replacing Shas'o with Arheiner). Or Arheiner doesn't post, and gets modkilled. Everyone votes for me and I get lynched.
So, we got with a no lynch...
1. DayPhase3 mirrors DayPhase2, unless Nightlynching takes someone interesting, not including myself.
2. Shas'o or I get Nightlynched. The most unlikely of all the situations I have, as we're more likely to be lynched by voting than other players. If either of us get Nightlynched, it'd mean the other will likely be voted off. Or DayPhase3 is like today, replacing the dead one of us with Arheiner.
We still have a day, so I'll wait it until tomorrow.
There's a much bigger logical flaw in killing off town for the sake of it. Maybe it will point some vague fingers at those who voted for him, but it's not worth one of us dying if we're definitely town.
Better to have ABSOLUTELY nothing happen. Yes, sense that makes. Complete sense, I can see that now! More sense to have everyone repeating this lynch idea in 24 hours. Congratulations geniuses. You've officially got me attempting sarcasm!
In all honesty I feel nothing more can come of today, Drk has been highly suspicious throughout and I did promise that if the time came that I felt it necessary to incur a lynch, I would do so.
the_ferrett wrote:Better to have ABSOLUTELY nothing happen. Yes, sense that makes. Complete sense, I can see that now! More sense to have everyone repeating this lynch idea in 24 hours. Congratulations geniuses. You've officially got me attempting sarcasm!
Yes, if Drk_O is town it is better to have no lynch then have him lynch himself. The reason why having a lynch is preferable to having a no lynch is because with a lynch you have a chance to hit scum. If Drk_O knowingly helps us lynch town (himself) then he is helping the Genestealers by killing townies and also helping a lynch that has no chance to hit scum and is thus not helpful to town. Do you understand the reasoning now?
Deff Dread red Edition wrote:In all honesty I feel nothing more can come of today, Drk has been highly suspicious throughout and I did promise that if the time came that I felt it necessary to incur a lynch, I would do so.
This is unexpected and it will be quite interesting to see how Drk_O flips now. If he flips scum then this does *not* clear DDRE as this could have been a last minute bussing attempt in order to gain some town cred. If Drk_O flips town...eh, things become more muddled. In any case, if I'm not around tomorrow please keep an eye on this action.
================================
End of Day 2: Story Post ================================
Today was much easier than yesterday. The sleep deprivation and hopelessness brought on by Not_U's death made today's decision to lynch one of the survivors seem less out of place. In any other situation, the practice of voting on who gets killed might be barbariac, but now it seems almost completely rational and acceptable. Acceptable to everyone but the victims...
Like yesterday, once the last vote was cast, the group descends on the victim, bloodlust in their eyes. Unlike the previous day, the victim has no intention of going quietly into the night. As Dark_O understands his fate, he immediately pounces on Shas'O, screaming, "I should have voted for you when I had the chance!" and begins beating him with his fists. Dark_O's last stand only lasts a moment, as one of the mob knocks him off of Shas'O with one of the mess hall chairs. The impact sends shards of the chair flying across the room while Dark_O is launched clear of Shas_O and into the wall. Stunned, and unable to clear his head long enough to climb to his feet, he can only watch as the mob once again approaches him, this time armed with the broken remnants of the chair...
Upon searching DarkO, the group finds a book titled "How to Always be the Center of Attention"
Dark_O was a loyal Imperial Citizen!!!!
With another innocent dead, the walls feel that much tighter and the air that much heavier and oppressive. It will be another long night....
================================
Night Phase 2:
Please everyone send me your Night Phase Actions before 6:00 PM EST on Wed. If night actions are sent earlier, then I might start the next day phase before then. Also, feel free to send me PMs with guesses of the culprits and whatnot, so I can have a private chuckle at what everyone is thinking and so you can show everyone that you "knew it all along!" (I won't reply to any of them, simply to avoid giving out any sort of tells)
Friendly reminder, don't PM anyone during the Night Phase unless your role specifically allows it. Also, no posting in the thread either.
==============================================
START OF DAY 3 STORY POST
==============================================
Once again the night passes ever so slowly. Sheer exhaustion makes it impossible to keep completely awake... but sleep does not come easy either. Whether one dozes off while trying to keep an alert vigil, or is able to fall asleep intentionally, the result is the same. Almost as soon as their eyes close, a creak, a drip, or even the subtle feeling of a watching, unseen evil brings each survivor out of their fitfull rest with a start, blindly flailing to ward off the imaginary claws closing around their neck. It's enough to push many to the point of wishing they had been the one killed the previous day, simply to end the fear and madness...
As "morning" breaks, once again the survivors gather together in what is becoming a grim ritual of watching and waiting to find out who was slaugtered in the night. Very quickly it becomes clear that Lord Loss is not coming to join them. Everyone slowly walks to his room, wondering what horrible fate the xenos inflicted on him. As they near his room, a terrible stench of mold mixed with boiled leather permeates the air. That sickening smell is what is left of Lord Loss... A hot water pipe running through his room was punctured in the night, letting hot water and steam into his room, which is sealed from the outside. The steam turned the room into a giant pressure cooker, boiling Lord Loss like a lobster in a pot. And scrawled on the outside of the door is the phrase. "The Psyker (Doctor) is IN"
Lord Loss was the Imperial Psyker!!!
===============================================
Day 3 has now begun!!! With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch. The Day Phase will end at 1800 EST on Monday, May 24th.
I am really sorry about the delay guys. RL has been crazy.
Wow. Lord Loss has been both very fortunate and very unlucky in 2 games running. First game he was the Archon and was lynched Day 2, this time he was the psyker and murdered on Night 2.
So Day 3 leaves us with 4 dead imperials and not a crust to show for it. Our psyker must have found little of value in the first night. Wonder if the death was lucky for the genestealers or if he gave himself away somehow.
Eeesh, I was banking that we didn't even have a Psyker after n0t_u bought it (by the way, LL, sorry about the Psyker = stupid stuff at the beginning of Day 2, I know you were probably just trying to out think the Genestealers with whomever you chose to protect, sorry it didn't work for you and sorry I helped self-flagellate you)
shas becomes a player of higher concern for me now because LL was clearly big into wanting to lynch shas. Now, scum may have just killed LL to make us think that, but scum may also have been trying to protect one of their own.
That all said;
Vote: the_ferrett
I really didn't like how he got onto the Drk_O wagon after fighting it for so long. Also, by dint of him shifting off of shas who he was working on for so long it makes me feel it's unlikely for ferret/shas to be a scumpair together. I don't care for either of them much, but I've had a townish read on shas for a while now so I figure I'll stick with that gut read and aim at the more overall skeevy slot.
Hmmm. Right off the bat, ey? I'm looking at 1,3,X if that's the case. (Round voted off the island). As to why the switch? Because I immensely dislike wasted days. Even if there is a 99% chance someone is innocent, it is better to convict them and hope for the 1% than to do a 0% benifit action. (OOC: Excuse the maths, currently running heurustics on distilation columns in the backround.) 1%>0% and a no lynch is 0%.
Seeing as I look to be the obvious next target, I'm going to pose a question to each of the following.
Thor - On the condition of assuming me scum, who would you partner me with based purely upon MY actions?
DDRE - What are your thoughts on your voteswitch, given that you performed similar actions to me and have not been noticed for it.
Fifty - Your aim was on Arheiner due to his low post count, has this continued?
Arheiner - Do you have anything to say?
BishopGore - Now that this has turned out, and you've been gunning for my blood since day 1, will you follow through on your aim to kill?
Brother Stynier - .... Where is your god now? ()
Shas O'vera - Are you feeling lucky punk? Statistics say its either you or me.
Right off the bat? We're in Day 3, theoretically everyone's suspect list is getting shorter and their ability to point out the scummiest seeming player who is left should be easier.
the_ferrett wrote:Thor - On the condition of assuming me scum, who would you partner me with based purely upon MY actions?
An interesting question and an interesting way to choose to phrase it. Any particular reason I can't/shouldn't use other player's actions?
As to your likely scum partner I will rule out myself, for obvious reasons, and will note that I do not believe you would be a partner with shas'o considering your actions yesterday and I feel it's supported by the phrasing of the question you asked to him just now. I do still suspect DDRE but am not sure if I see a likely DDRE/ferret connection, that said, considering he's my second top suspect I'll list him just for my own sanity's sake. I would also probably posit either Arheiner or Fifty as up until this last post you seem to have made a solid goal of not mentioning either of them really at all which is interesting considering how much Arheiner has been discussed for his lack of contribution (especially considering your reasons for being on the shas wagon) and Fifty because to my recollection he's the most talkative player in the game whom you haven't made a dig at and claimed persecution from. Everyone else who I feel has been active has been attacked by you on some level or other except him. Maybe he's just below the activity level that bugs you, but it rings odd to me. I'd probably point at Arheiner as the more likely of the pair.
So in quick list format, in order of what I feel is the likelihood;
Arheiner
DDRE (though individually I find him scummier then Arheiner, and I don't see Arheiner/DDRE as that likely)
Fifty
Arheiner - Do you have anything to say?
And suddenly ferret really likes commentary? That quibble aside, this is an otherwise good point...
Gornall could we please have Arheiner prodded?
the_ferrett wrote:Hmmm. Right off the bat, ey? I'm looking at 1,3,X if that's the case. (Round voted off the island). As to why the switch? Because I immensely dislike wasted days. Even if there is a 99% chance someone is innocent, it is better to convict them and hope for the 1% than to do a 0% benifit action. (OOC: Excuse the maths, currently running heurustics on distilation columns in the backround.) 1%>0% and a no lynch is 0%.
Brother Stynier - .... Where is your god now? ()
If I remember correctly from the beginning I have allotted for the chance that Drk_O could be an Imperial, and stated that regardless of whether he was or wasn't loyal I would prefer him removed from play, as his style of play is never beneficial to the town. So when you say where is my god now? All I can say is this outcome had occurred to me, and Drk_O's removal allows me to focus more on someone else.
I would also hope that when you said where is your god now, you meant where is "OUR God-Emperor?" This is not the first time you have referred to the God-Emperor as mine and not yours.
Ferret, why do you say I have my aim on Arheiner? I said he is someone I would be looking at, but I am far more interested in Shas'o vera.
On an unconnected note, I'll be going back and looking through the last couple of pages before the last night phase before deciding whether to stick on Shas' or whether anyone else has snuck into first place in front of him. I still think Shas is a good bet, but reckon I have changed my mind about a few other people a bit and maybe I can find a better one...
What are your thoughts about ferret and his vote shift at the end of day yesterday? Do you think there's any chance ferret is scumbuddies with shas? Depending on your answer there you should have an opinion about my own vote on ferret.
Ferret is one of the people I was getting a very bad scum vibe from at the end of the previous day, but I didn't want to mention then as he was clearly not going to get lynched, and I think I am best off alive rather than dead during the night phase. Ferret just seemed too desperate for a lynch on one or other of Dark_O and Shas... That could be town or 'stealer thinking, but is more of a scum-tell than most people were posting.
Therefore, I don't think Shas and Ferret are working together. Ferret had his vote on Shas too long at lynch -1 for that, I think.
I would not be surprised at a DDRE/Ferret alliance, but personally I have not been picking up buddy-vibes from them the way you have, just getting scum vibes from both of them. I do seem to recall some evidence you picked out about them being a team early on, but I can't remember it properly - am I right, and if so, can you repost it?
After all the effort I put in to convincing myself that Shas is scum, it seems a shame to have to unconvince myself. However, maybe he is just not very useful and Ferret is actually a better bet.
So far we have not struck lucky, and I think we need to find a 'stealer very soon, or we will be in super-trouble. I am strong for either Shas [i]or/i] Ferret, but I am not sure which yet.
As far as DDRE goes, I think I was only ever connecting him with Drk_O because of that weird comment near the end of Day 1 where he said he thought Drk_O was scum and voted someone else. I'll agree that I still have bad vibes from DDRE but I think it's just that he seems to be going after 'safe' lynch targets. I mean, pressuring Arhenier - that's a safe bet for scum. The problem is I agree with his case on Arheiner so it's hard to clarify for myself if I think DDRE is scummy because of that.
Don't let yourself get too trapped by pre-conceived notions of who is or isn't scummy, you should always be willing to reassess. I do agree that a ferret/shas team is highly unlikely and I tend to believe ferret's sudden shifting at the end of the day reads more as scum looking to ensure the lynch rather then town trying to lynch someone they think is scummy.
the_ferrett wrote:
DDRE - What are your thoughts on your voteswitch, given that you performed similar actions to me and have not been noticed for it.
My actions were in no way similar to what you did, IMHO. You seemed to hop on the Drk wagon near the end of the day, when you were at a lose for what to do. I maintained a high level of suspicion for him during the entire time he was with us, and finally voted for him when it was clear no on else would be lynched that day. My suspicions were misplaced, however I believed I was in the right.
Moving along, I'm still every suspicious of Arheiner, he yet again posted on the day our day phase began a new, yet in another thread. Now, perhaps he is simply more invested in the other game, or has much more sinister motives and is trying to hide in the shadows. Either way he is becoming irksome, he almost never posts, contributes little and has generally been strange. Therefore, I must say...
Vote:Arheiner
Also...
Gornall, I must add my voice to that of Thor's, would you mind giving both Shas and Arheiner a prod?
There are only two people I am confident of right now, and one of them is me...
Thor - Very posty, helps drive things forward. If he IS a stealer, then he is doing a damn good job of keeping attention from him and his buddy
DDRE - Odd behaviour towards Dark_O
Fifty - A fine pillar of the Imperial Community, without question Arheiner - Too quiet by far, but does that make him a useless uninterested townie, or a clever 'stealer who has seen quietness so far keep him unvoted for, and no clues as to his partner given away? I am tempted to support him being lynched, just to see if we can get him talking a bit, like we did for Shas.
BishopGore - Not sad much, but pertinent when he does... A possible "sleeper" to partner a more active 'stealer?
Brother Stynier - Again, not sad much, but not silent either.
Shas O'vera - Little contribution, but since I made the case against him, has done nothing to make that case stronger... The death of Lord Loss could just as easily have been a 'stealer trying to frame him.
Ferret - Moving up the list? Some very odd actions at the end of the previous Day Phase. May have night-killed Shas to make him look guilty, particularly in light of the fact he was voting for Shas for most of the day, so obviously wants him gone...
You know what, in light of the long-term voting for Shas, the switch to Dark_O and the night kill of Lord Loss... I am convinced that there is enough of a case for a Ferret lynch.
I started out saying alot, after that there wasn't much needing to be said. Right now I am wary of Thor, I just can't shake the feeling that he is trying to bend us all to his whim. Ferret seems odd as well, he goes from timid to attacking in a heart beat.
Why am I not surprised by how Mother's day has rewarded me? At least all you lovely people are doing the right thing and voting. Shame its for me, but once I'm gone nothing much I can do about it.
For those left - note the non-alliances. They're more telling than who is fighting or who is alliancing. You'll also note that this can change depending upon heat levels - for example if someone scummy is voted for, their allies should either become silent or be a 'voice of reason' by voting for the 'obvious scum'.
And whom are you referring to Ferret? If it is I you speak of, I've voiced concern towards Thor since day two. You are yet again speaking and not doing much else. If you are so concerned vote.
VOTE Thor
I am afraid I don't have much to go on with this, but something isn't sitting well with me.
I'm speaking instead of voting because I'm quite certain my ship is sunk. If I were to vote it would be shas or Thor. Partner possibilities are - Thor/Fifty or Shas/Arheiner or Gore.
I'll also note that ferret's revelation on non-alliances came after I broached my own belief that he was potentially scummy partners with Arheiner or Fifty based on how little interaction he had with them. Then, suddenly, his other favorite wagon from yesterday (shas) and the guy who voted for him (me) are paired with those two as part of silent alliances.
Yeah, ferret, really explain the potential connections as you see them, my scumdar is pinging like crazy right now.
Edit - changed the italicized name above from Arheiner to shas as it was meant to be.
I enjoy this part of any arguament. How I'm asked for 'suspicions' based on 'feelings' to help 'proove' that I might be right..... and then the opposition uses said me answering their questions to twist what I say into "Oh look you're wrong"-isms. It makes me feel.... special. Like what I say actually matters. And if you can't tell I'm trying that sarcasm thing that I never can understand.
As to Shas: My above pairings were givens. On the condition that either Thorr or you were guilty, who would be second. Ironically I was asked to give examples. Look where that got me.
You know Thorr why people shut up in games with you? Because they can't voice an opinion with you jumping at every syntax, every hint of 'oh look he worded that open endedly'. People are allowed to look at the evidence - AND THAT INCLUDES YOUR POSTS - and then make a judgement. We don't live in a vaccuum so stop acting like I'm not allowed to see sense in what you say!
I've voiced an opinion that is slightly open and he hasn't jumped on me ferrett, I think he's hitting you because;
A) If he is loyal to the throne, you seem rather scummy. Something we all see and he is persecuting you for it.
B) He is one of the Genestealers and he is picking on you because you are a weak link. So he and his partner are picking on you in order make you slip up more and get the rest of us to vote for you.
Or
C) You and he are both genestealers and this is a distraction until someone makes a different vote that everyone can get behind.
the_ferrett wrote:As to Shas: My above pairings were givens. On the condition that either Thorr or you were guilty, who would be second. Ironically I was asked to give examples. Look where that got me.
Well, you did open up with a vague accusation (that had Brother Stynier think you were talking about him, for one) then, when asked to clarify you provided the names of the 'non-alliances' you saw. I *specifically* described why I found those non alliances to be suspect considering the timing (seriously, of the four people named two of them just happened to be two people who were now voting you...really?). Please climb off the cross and feel free to blast my reasons for finding it scummy. But simply throwing up your hands and saying 'woe unto me for answering questions' is not a valid defense.
You know Thorr why people shut up in games with you? Because they can't voice an opinion with you jumping at every syntax, every hint of 'oh look he worded that open endedly'. People are allowed to look at the evidence - AND THAT INCLUDES YOUR POSTS - and then make a judgement. We don't live in a vaccuum so stop acting like I'm not allowed to see sense in what you say!
So by this you're saying the logic of you picking Fifty and Arheiner as likely scum was based solely off of me predicting who I felt were the most likely scumbuddies to you? I appreciate the compliment, but will note that my top three scummy players are not exactly lined up with my most likely to be partners with ferret list and they should be treated as different lists with different values to them.
I also disagree that people are any more/less quiet in games with/without me then they otherwise are (except maybe Arheiner)
BrotherStynier wrote:I've voiced an opinion that is slightly open and he hasn't jumped on me ferrett, I think he's hitting you because;
A) If he is loyal to the throne, you seem rather scummy. Something we all see and he is persecuting you for it.
B) He is one of the Genestealers and he is picking on you because you are a weak link. So he and his partner are picking on you in order make you slip up more and get the rest of us to vote for you.
B is flawed unless you seriously believe Fifty is a genestealer with me since I'm pretty sure he's the only other vote on ferret. I could or could not be a Genestealer regardless of Fifty being a Genestealer.
I don't necessarily feel him to be good, but so far I don't see him being too 'scummy' at least not for the moment. Right now I feel like attacking this one person at a time, though through out the day I'm sure that will change.
You aren't being too different in your attacks on Ferret, but like I said one suspect at a time.
How exactly are you expecting this attack to ed-ju-ma-cate you about me considering this current conversation was initiated by me? Theoretically if you're attacking me you're trying to get a better read on me, and I don't see how you're trying to do that. What am I missing?
I was mainly trying to gauge your response. You see, ferret has his heart set on some idea that you push other people into not talking out of fear of some sort of rebuke from you, I wanna see what he's talking about.
I am trying to read you by being more passive. I am curious how ever why you really felt it necessary to kill Drk_O was it like why I wanted him gone? To free us up from pointless discussions? Or did you have something else?
BrotherStynier wrote:I am curious how ever why you really felt it necessary to kill Drk_O was it like why I wanted him gone? To free us up from pointless discussions? Or did you have something else?
I specifically said why I wanted Drk_O lynched. There was something he said on Day 1 that I called scummy (honestly off the top of my head I don't remember what, and am too lazy to go back and look) I also found his potential association with DDRE over the 'Drk_O is scummy, let's not lynch him' comment to be suspicious and that made me want to lynch one of the pair. I've said all of this before.
Arheiner yet again posted in the other thread. I ask that some of you help me put pressure on him, because as is I'd like to hear what he has to say. Failing that, and if he doesn't post in a few days, I'll change my vote.
Can we instead ask Gornall to give Arheiner the boot? He has not posted since the 26th. Whether he is 'stealer or town, I don't particularly want him in the game if that is the interest he shows.
That was indeed going to be my first suggestion, however I though it might come of a bit too TFG. In all honesty he could just as well be dead, as he isn't contributing.
Unvote:Arheiner Pressuring him doesn't seem to work at all, so I'll rather change my vote.
and
Vote:The_Ferrett
His little,'my goose is cooked,' routine is strange to me. Perhaps the act of a guilty conscience, wanting to atone for his sins as genestealer scum. If it goes to 4 votes however, I'll unvote, we don't need a really short third day were nothing is discussed.
Because I thought I could pressure him into contributing, if even just a little. Yet, thinking of it now, pressuring him as such is what I've been doing since yesterday. This hasn't achieved overly much and I feel my vote could do better else were. It is also clear that no one was really going to get behind my call to put pressure on him, as we have scummier targets to contend with.
I mean, why vote for Ferret if you are going to unvote him if anyone else votes for him? It seems kind of pointless voting for him, that being the case.
I am really sorry guys, there's no real excuse for my absence, so I'll try to comment on the questions asked of me.
Ferrett wrote:BishopGore - Now that this has turned out, and you've been gunning for my blood since day 1, will you follow through on your aim to kill?
Yes, yes I will. You've been difficult and argumentative at every turn. Now you're being overly aggressive/whiny in every post and then complaining that people are picking on you.
Vote: Ferrett
Enough said.
BishopGore - Not sad much, but pertinent when he does... A possible "sleeper" to partner a more active 'stealer?
You're right, I'm not sad much, I'm generally chirpy. No emo am I! But you're right, since the first couple of days real time of this game I've been quiet. It's partly due to the other game, which is crazily exciting and partly because I'm working my moobs off at my new job, which is awesome but a lot more time consuming. But that's OOC stuff, which shouldn't get in the way of this commitment. I solemnly swear to post every other day (unless something awful happens), or I'll give Thor the Bishop-whip.
Anyway. Wow. Lots going on. Thor is being pointed at by a couple of chaps, but only one vote on him. I'm tempted to think of him as clever evil, but then again I think this game would sink without him. Or maybe without him we'd all flourish as we'd be forced to think for ourselves rather than posting ideas for Thor to think through for us.
"Thor, I had a thought that maybe if I wore my underpants on my head, the extra warmth might make it blatantly obvious who was evil"
"Well yes, you could do that, but that doesn't mean we'd all follow your lead. Unless you've got some form of underpants clique who're all also playing this game. I must investigate this underpants clique now..."
I think I'm going to find Thor some theme music. Somewhere between Poirot and the Pink Panther.
Fifty wrote:I mean, why vote for Ferret if you are going to unvote him if anyone else votes for him? It seems kind of pointless voting for him, that being the case.
After considering it, I think that I'm not going to change my current vote. His mopey demeanor and strange vote switch are my main reasons for doing so. He is the best suspect we have for now, and I feel that sticking with my vote would be best, at least for now.
Sneaking in before night falls - with ferret's self-vote he is more then likely town as there was no reason for scum to have done what he did and usually self-votes come from an annoyed town player rather then scum.
If this is true I have serious doubts about DDRE for his odd floating on to the wagon with his odd 'not sure if I'll want to help lynch him' commentary. In any case, there is a *high* probability scum is on the ferret wagon if ferret is town, and that should be investigated tomorrow.
*attempts to wrest the gun from Ferret before he fires, but (probably?) fails*
Funny thing is that Shas is not on the Ferret wagon, and I would now look back toward him.
Ferret, I wondered if you realise your objective is not to survive, but to kill the 'stealers? If you die and we still catch the 'stealers, you still count as winning. Sure, it is nice to survive, but this way out just means you have;
A) Denied us a chance to keep talking
B) Denied us a chance of seeing who else would vote for you.
Fair enough Ferrett, at least your actions here convince me of my right-nous of thought in the other thread. It would seem that a town role is not really your strong suit
Ok, so we were all piling onto you, but turning the gun on yourself? I'm a little disappointed. We need gumption if we're to get through this ordeal and find the ones who trapped us... 40K LEAGUES UNDER THE SEA.
====================================
END OF DAY 3 STORY POST
====================================
The stress is simply too much for Ferret to take and in a fit he blindly flees to a pressure lock and closes the door behind him. Before anyone can react, he opens the outer door, letting the ocean flood in and crush him into a tiny, greasy ball of meat. Hardly the work of a cold-blooded killer...
Ferret is a loyal, but suicidal Imperial Civilian!!! ====================================
Get your night actions to me by Monday at 1800 EST. Sorry the story was rushed, but I'm still on the road.
====================================
BEGINNING OF DAY 4 STORY POST
====================================
Once again the dawn brings only the promise of more suspicion, terror, and death. Even a Pysker and an Inquisitor were not enough to hold the xenos at bay... when the loyalists easily outnumbered the alien scum. Now that your numbers have been thinned over the past 3 days and nights, all hope seems lost. The discovery of Stynier only adds to the despair....
From the looks of his room, he had at least put up a valiant fight, as the remnants of broken furniture and and dried sprays of blood are scattered across the room. In the end, it was futile, as you survey the scene and see the torn and rent bits and pieces of Stynier thrown amongst the wreckage. Once the beasts had overcome Stynier, they had slowly torn him apart piece by piece.... death by a thousands cuts.
Stynier was a loyal Imperial Civilian! ====================================
This is a Lynch or Lose situation. With 2 Genestealers, if you do not lynch one, they can nightkill a townsperson, leaving 2 stealers and 2 townies. That means no lynch the next day and the stealers can night kill and lynch the last townie. Take your time and make the most of this day, which ends on 1800 EST Monday May 31st.
Right, so, Thor has been very good at keeping the game moving, but his ideas about who to go for have been mostly wrong. But so have mine, so I certainly can't assume he's evil because of that.
Arheiner is playing the game similarly to how he has in the other game, so unless he's using psychology I reckon he's a loyalist. A bored loyalist with nothing much to keep him interested.
DDRE and Fifty? They're kind of similar... both very good at being involved, both voting sensibly each round. Not sure if they've been backing each other up.
Shas'O seems bored. Part of me is beginning to wonder if Shas and Vulkan are the same person, they are generally quiet and don't make much sense and get lynched either at the beginning or end of the game and will turn out to be innocent. Not saying he is innocent, but I don't see him as a likely candidate.
So my new list of who I think is most -> least suspect:
1. Thor
2. DDRE/Fifty
3. Arheiner
4. Shas'O
It's very late now, I will try to get on soon and investigate/explain further why I think Thor may be the most likely genestealer...
I'm actually frustrated that I'm still alive as it suggests that I've been very off on my reads to the point the Genestealers have been content to let me live since I'm barking up all the wrong trees.
The problem of course being that I've been pretty loud and proud of my beliefs and I've been quite wrong thus far this game. I'm going to go back and do some re-reading of yesterday and the first day phase as I suspect there should be easy connections to make between voters from the first lynch wagon and voters from this last one (though ferret did deny us a read on at least one person which is quite aggravating)
Also (and nobody freak out, I'll explain this in a moment);
@Gornall - could we get a prod or a modkill on Arheiner please?
The reason I'm asking for a possible kill of Arheiner is quite simple. Right at the moment if we mislynch town we lose. However, if we lynch no one we don't lose, because scum will kill one target and leave 5 alive for the next day - which doesn't give them the win. This leaves us the possibility to play statistics and not lynch today in order to have a better chance of lynching correctly tomorrow. The problem is scum will usually NK people that you town doesn't suspect or are useful townies. By requesting a prod or modkill what I'm doing is stealing the Genestealer NK and using it on a player who is either not productive in helping us find scum and/or is scum himself.
My goal is to kill Arheiner via Gornall or to get Arheiner talking today. If he talks - great, we can try to read him that way. If Gornall kills him, great, we'll learn whether he was a Genestealer or innocent and it will increase the statistical likelihood of us catching scum with our lynch today.
Or perhaps you're a genestealer who wants a modkill to kill off a townie, we have no way of telling, even if modkilling me is within the rules. As for my opinions, Bishop seems easily persuadable, I want to look at the opinions he believes and hope we can find something by that, I'm not really expecting him to be a genestealer but I could see them trying to mess with him.
Arheiner wrote:Or perhaps you're a genestealer who wants a modkill to kill off a townie,
I've actually already explained why this tactic is against the Genestealer's best interest.
6 Players are alive - 2 are Genestealers, we have a 1/3 chance of lynching a Genestealer today via picking totally randomly.
I get you modkilled. You flip town.
5 Players are alive - 2 are Genestealers, we have a 2/5 chance of lynching a Genestealer today via picking totally randomly. (this is better odds)
If we lynch wrong in either situation we lose, so better odds are better.
I get you modkilled. You flip scum.
5 Players are alive - 1 is a Genestealer, we have a 1/5 chance of lynching a Genestealer today via picking totally randomly.
We can afford to mislynch, so we'll get a second chance to lynch the last Genestealer. Two chances to lynch a Genestealer are better then one, so better odds are better.
I'll also add that I was acceptable to the idea of you actually showing up and commenting as well - welcome to the game.
we have no way of telling, even if modkilling me is within the rules.
Gornall explained the way his prods would work this game - it is within his stated rules.
As for my opinions, Bishop seems easily persuadable, I want to look at the opinions he believes and hope we can find something by that, I'm not really expecting him to be a genestealer but I could see them trying to mess with him.
Have you already seen examples of BishopGore being persuadable? I'm not saying you're wrong (though I'll admit I do disagree with you) but for you to think he's easy to persuade you must have already seen him easily persuaded of something, yes?
Arheiner wrote:Or perhaps you're a genestealer who wants a modkill to kill off a townie, we have no way of telling, even if modkilling me is within the rules. As for my opinions, Bishop seems easily persuadable, I want to look at the opinions he believes and hope we can find something by that, I'm not really expecting him to be a genestealer but I could see them trying to mess with him.
((ooc Why do you even care? This is your first post since the 26th of last month. That is TWENTY-TWO days. I don't even care if you are a townie or a 'stealer, I just want to try and play the last bit of this game without your complete lack of posting muddying the waters. You either don't have any interest in this game, or you are using a tactic that should have already seen you thrown out.))
IC I agree with Thor's logic, and whereas he is happy to see you post, I'd rather see you modkilled.
The fact that it was only when yet another person asked for a modkill on you makes me think that your silence was a tactic to avoid lynching, and it is only when it looks like finally floundering that you come out of it. On the other hand, your complete lack of interest suggests, as BishopGore said, that you are probably a bored loyalist. Either way, you are more use to us dead.
(This is all on the assumption that a modkill would deny the 'stealers a night kill. If it wouldn't, I want you alive)
If Arheiner is not modkilled, I suggest going with Thor's suggestion of not lynching. We'll have a 2 in 5 chance of finding a 'stealer instead of 2 in 6. (On the the other hand, that would drag the game out for a LONG time. If we all agreed, could we skip straight to a night phase once we were ready? I'd rather have worse odds than wait 2 whole weeks.)
We have a 1/3 chance of finding a stealer today. That is assuming that no stealer has made a slip all game, or that it's been so lost in the maddening amount of posts that we've no hope of finding it.
I don't like the idea that we let another Imperial die tonight simply so we have slightly better odds. These genestealers are smart. They're working together so well that we have no clue who they might be. I honestly think that the more people are whittled away, the less chance we have.
Assumption 1:
we lynch a genestealer today.
Tonight an imperial dies and we have 3 imperials and a genestealer.
Assumption 2:
we vote no lynch today
Tonight an imperial dies and we have 3 imperials and 2 genestealers.
Either way, we have to find both of the genestealers in 2 days. I can see how the odds would make it a little more in our favour, but I don't like it much.
If we are going to vote no lynch, I ask that we do it later this week so we all have a little time to really get to grips with the others present.
As another point about Arheiner, when Mekboy went quiet for a little while, Gornall quickly modkilled him, because he was a stealer. Arheiner has been very quiet and Gornall hasn't bothered doing anything about it. Likelihood of stealer is not high.
And his comments about being easily led probably stem from the game he just died in. I'm not sure if he's frustrated with me not being on his side or because I was absent in the few hours the Dark Kin needed to persuade the other non-Dark Kin to lynch him. But I see where he is coming from, I have a tendency to trust people I shouldn't.
BishopGore wrote:
As another point about Arheiner, when Mekboy went quiet for a little while, Gornall quickly modkilled him, because he was a stealer. Arheiner has been very quiet and Gornall hasn't bothered doing anything about it. Likelihood of stealer is not high.
I actually think this makes him likely to be a stealer. You see, Gornall(at least to my memory)had said that the promotion to a stealer was a one time thing. Gornall couldn't this late in the game promote yet another stealer, so he's keeping Arheiner around.
Because I don't want people metagaming my lack of action too much, my full disclosure is that I haven't been prodding/mod-killing because I've been lazy and traveling. It has nothing to do with any roles any of the quiet ones may or may not have. I simply have been swamped at work so I have not been able to dedicate the time to this that I could earlier on.
So, BishopGore, if you were going to lynch, who would it be?
Arheiner, rather than just asking what Bish thinks, why not give us your opinions?
DDRE, rather than ignore you, I'll ask the same of you.
I've been quite vocal about my opinions so far, and I've been ignored once, with regards to Shas, and got it wrong once, that was Ferret. I can't even remember if I voted for the other lynchee - I think I either did, or would have done if someone else had not gotten him first, but I was following others on that one.
It would be nice if someone other than myelf or Thor championed a lynch then followed through on their case with some evidence and/or persuasion.
Right now I'm heavily suspicious of Thor because I'm not suspicious of him. I generally find I'm dead wrong about people, so it seems logical to me! However that's not logic, that's just being foolish. I've just got back from our weekly Games Club where my Space Marines got beaten into a bloody pulp by Tyranids, so again I'm going to plead off with not having the energy to go back through and make logical arguments based on actual facts, but I promise I will do so very soon.
Fifty wrote:(This is all on the assumption that a modkill would deny the 'stealers a night kill. If it wouldn't, I want you alive)
It denies them a NK insomuch as it lets the town dictate who the NK is as opposed to letting the Genestealers choose the NK. If we lynch wrong today (unless Arheiner is scum and is modkilled) then we loose no matter what.
That all said, I think your current desire to have Arheiner modkilled at this point is going to head nowhere since I doubt Gornall will kill him if he's posting.
@Everyone - BishopGore and I have both offered up our suspect/town lists. I encourage everyone to do so at this point. Again, if we mislynch we lose, so we ought to try to get on the same page as far as who we all agree is town and who we agree is suspicious. I'm also planning to get together a list of who voted for each individual lynch, but I am lazy, so if anyone wants to do so before I get to it - awesome! If not, expect me to have it up by tomorrow night.
Anyway, I am waiting to see a bit more posted before I say a lot more. I know who/what I will be voting for if no-one says anything between now and the deadline.
The numbers are off because Gornall doesn't repost the vote count at lynch, so I was adding in the correct names. I also included everyone who had a vote at the time of the lynch and also made sure to include the info from the person who was lynched the next day as well just to see what connections were there.
Were the people who cast all the lynch votes. I'll now take out everyone who's dead;
DDRE, BishopGore, Thor
ShasO, BishopGore, Thor, DDRE
Thor, Fifty, DDRE, Bishop Gore (ferret denied us a name here)
I'll rule out myself (the rest of you can feel free not to, but I don't feel like trying to make a faux case on myself) that leaves us Bishop Gore and DDRE as in on every single lynch. Since, generally speaking, scum will be present on a wagon if it's not a scum wagon that is immediately popping the both of them up higher on my scumlist. I generally feel scum tend to prefer to be near the center of the votes (being the first and the last gets you noticed more but that might be too high end of a tactic to expect with relatively newer players. I've been expressing doubts on DDRE for a while now, so seeing his name pop up like this is reassuring. I've had Bishop Gore relatively cleared in my head for a while, so I'm less certain what to think about him showing up. shas'o probably also deserves mention since he never voted yesterday so he's denying us some evidence to use on him.
I think I'll put DDRE and Bishop Gore as my top suspects currently. I'm going to reread some more to see if I can get a clearer picture. I know I cleared DDRE after Drk_O was lynched and I need to see if I still think he looks scummy separate from Drk_O. Also, Bishop Gore needs a reread from me as well since I've been feeling him as town all this time and now I need to remind myself why.
*sigh8 Okay, then feelings could you please share your feelings about the other players. Whom do you suspect, whom do you clear (maybe if you feel wild and crazy toss in a reason or two why)
Please don't be obtuse about this - if you have time to post you ought to have time to at least point a finger and say 'Bob is suspicious because he voted Ed like he did' or something like that.
I went back through 15 pages of posts making notes in notepad, then I got a phone call and when I came back my computer had rebooted itself. Somehow. Usually I remember to save, but not this time. So I've lost all the quotes I was going to post up and now I'm trying to remember my reasons why Thor is still my number one suspect with Fifty as my suspected partner.
Thor's main activity this game has been to keep people talking. More occasions than I can count he has brought the thread back on track, prodded people to give their thoughts. But I felt there were also steering currents in his posts. The people he put at the top of his list were hit sometimes, but usually Thor would be throwing doubts on specific others out who usually did end up going down. The people who've died each night have been either nobody's or people I would class as equally committed to furthering this thread as Thor is. Each death has led to Thor being more and more the most vocal member of the party left. I had a couple of quotes, but I can't remember where they were and I'm too annoyed to go back now and look.
The case against Fifty had a couple of key quotes I found, but without them it's not very convincing. it stems around the genstealer pair idea, there is no link between the two except in the empty spaces, they have voted opposite sides (or did until Ferrett, that may ruin the idea, but maybe not), they've disagreed a few times, but not in any way as to make people notice.
I realise that these comments are worthless without quotes as neither party can really defend themselves against such vague arguments, so I ask your leave for a couple more days to restore my desire to go back through the quagmire.
As to your suspicions Thor, I agree I have been a key voter in each case, but I have generally been firm in my stance, not swapping and changing to further any aim. Since the very beginning of the game it has been said that we must lynch each day to learn new things and further the aims of the town, yet now you use the fact that some of us have been involved in pro-town lynchs as suspicious. We have all been unlucky each day to be constantly striking down those who are Emperor-fearing and good, but that has been part of the design. The design to keep the game moving, since we have to reach the lynch value to lynch and if any abstained from voting or if a vote limit was not lynched people began urging others to move and make sure someone died. So using voting patterns of who voted for the one who happened to die seems a less than adequate way of finding a guilty party. This makes sense in my head, but not so much in typing.
Anyway, I'm not sure if this will be seen as retaliatory, but I honestly feel Thor may be the threat we must guard against.
BishopGore wrote:using voting patterns of who voted for the one who happened to die seems a less than adequate way of finding a guilty party. This makes sense in my head, but not so much in typing.
I understand where you're coming from, but this is silly - let me break it down.
YES - it is absolutely pro-town to generate lynches pretty much everyday because lynches are the *only* way we'll kill scum (barring certain special roles that are irrelevant for this discussion) But, yeah, you need to lynch to kill town hence lynching is good and voting is good.
NO - it is not strange that suddenly I wish to explore the people who were consistent lynch voters. Why? Because scum need to vote too - and scum want to lynch town, not scum. Therefore it is highly likely that scum will vote to lynch and the chances of zero scum being present on a lynch wagon targeting an innocent town player is pretty darn minimal. Therefore, it stands to reason that if you look at voters who appear multiple times wanting to lynch town targets you do indeed come up with a list that is highly likely to contain scum. The only real question is whether both scum are on the wagon or only one, but the likelihood of zero? Highly unlikely.
Needless to say I disagree with your case on me but will await you pulling together your evidence before I show up with the battering ram and torches to rip it down. I'll agree that the worst Fifty and I ever really disagreed on was concerning his desire to lynch shas'o which I was never a particular fan of since I had a town read on shas. I also had a town read on Fifty and you. When you go back and look during your re-read I imagine you'll discover that I'm equally quiet about you, Lord-Loss, and shas as I am Fifty because I had pro-town reads throughout the bulk of the game on all four of you (I think Fifty and Lord-Loss were my specific call outs at the start of Day 2 as being very townish in my mind). Of course I scumhunt less on those I'm not suspicious of at the time, that's just basic sensible play.
shas'o vera wrote:well, my best suspitisions (sorry, cant spell) are still with Arheiner but he hasn't really said anything this day, son untill that time.
Is there anyone you do not find suspicious?
Since most of the suspicion on Arhenier is because of his lurking how do you feel suspecting him since you've done a lot of lurking as well? (in other words - do you suspect him because of his lurking, and if not do you have any idea why you're suspecting him?)
The only possible night phase abilities left at this stage are an Imperial Assassin (who should have acted last night if he's around) and scum (there's also a possibility for a *very* poorly played NLA, but I think that we can safely rule that one out).
To sort of rephrase my earlier question - you have also lacked participation. By your own logic that suggests that you have a night phase ability. Why does your suspicion apply to Arheiner and not yourself? Couldn't Arheiner be not participating for the same reasons you aren't?
Personally I do not because I had a town read on you earlier in the game and I haven't had that with Arheiner. That said, I have to be asking myself why it was I was left alive so long and a reasonable argument is that I was clearing scummy players so they left me around to keep clearing them - hence I am obligated to reassess my beliefs.
I do think it's a reasonable question of why you ding Arheiner for lack of participation considering your own lack of participation. If you're town then clearly you understand that sometimes town doesn't participate.
Do you have any reads (feelings) other then Arheiner at this moment? I wouldn't mind seeing a listing of all the players in the game in order from most to least scummy in your opinion.
We've gone past the point of playing anything close to the chest. I've been pretty open about my top two or three choices all game, but that has only resulted in me lynching the wrong people. At least I am still alive, but frankly, with my voting record this game, and my failure to find the final 'stealer at the end of the last game, I am not sure that is such a great thing for a town victory...
1. Thor - Very surprised he isn't dead yet. Increasingly likely that he is a very very competent 'stealer. Either that or a vocal, but rubbish townie (much like myself, I realise). I have had a town read all game though, and would hate to be wrong.
2. DDRE - No particular scumtells. But... I have to wonder why I myself am still alive, as I have been quite vocal myself. Perhaps the people I have not pointed a finger at are therefore good candidates for 'stealery.
3. See previous.
4. Arheiner - Complete lack of interaction with the game seems more likely to me to make him a townie who simply doesn't care, as a 'stealer would not have been able to rely on Gornall not being around enough to chuck them out of the game.
5. Shas'o Vera - I still get a scum feeling here, but nothing he has done since my mega-post on him to make him seem any more scummy - it is all just more of the same. I do still feel that he has been using inexperience as an excuse to not say or do anything.
The other thing to consider is the voting patterns. DDRE and Bishopgore have both been on every single lynch so far, according to Thor's list. One of them, I can't remember which (Bishopgore?), is now voting for Thor... Has Thor finally got it right and drawn their ire?
I find myself in pretty much exactly the same situation as the last game - one of the last few townies, but with less and less idea about who are the 'stealers as time goes on.
I think I still support a no lynch vote, but I think I may be the only one, so I will probably have to vote this turn. People speaking out against what seems to give us the best chance of finding a 'stealer also worries me...
Hmmm... Thor has also been on every single lynch vote. I'll point out that I myself have only been on one lynch vote, as a way of encouraging the rest of town to trust me...
Shas has been on one, Arheiner on none...
(I mean trust me to be town, not trust me to be getting things correct, obviously, because I haven't been, unless Shas IS a 'stealer. which I am thinking now looks less likely... I'll stop wittering now.)
(ooc: Sorry I haven't posted a lot guys. Had a busy week.)
Mmm... considering it now, and looking at the votes as Thor has put them, I can see how I look suspicious. Although, I know myself to be a townie. Perhaps a misguided one, yet none the less a townie. So anyway, getting back to who I find to be suspicious...
1)Thor-I'm surprised he lived this long. He has generally tried to steer the conversation his way, and mostly has been unsuccessful as such. So perhaps he is a townie, whom simply fits in well with the stealers needs or a stealer himself. Neither is good for us.
2)BishopGore-On every single lynch vote, and now voting for Thor. Perhaps a stealer, finally shoved into the spotlight. Yet, maybe this is a stealer ploy, one making himself more obvious while his accomplice(Thor) comes out the hero.
3)Arheiner-I've been highly suspicious of him the entire game. His lack of posts, coupled with his unhelpful manner though, now point me more toward a bored townie. At least for the time being.
4)Fifty and Shas-Not much to say about fifty or Shas really. They both have been giving me town vibes. Fifty has been generally helpful, and wants to catch the stealers. Perhaps, just a bit misguided.
Shas has also given me a town vibe, even though he doesn't post much. He is generally rational, yet never adds much to the conversation.
Since my posts, two people have come out to put Thor at the top of their suspicious list.
The scum pair of Thor and Shas'O seems laughable, Thor and Arheiner is a vague possibility, but it doesn't feel right, so I am inclined to believe that either Thor is innocent or else Fifty/DDRE is putting Thor at the top of their list to make him look less suspicious.
Because we're up against a very competent pair of scum, I have to think that anything I think of, they've thought of already and have not only bluffed, but double bluffed, triple bluffed and then added a little whipped cream and made a very fancy cake.
unvote: Thor
Vote: no lynch
The likelihood of us choosing the genestealer by chance is minimal. I will get those quotes together if I survive the night, but I think Thor is probably right, no lynch is the only way for us to secure the slightest possibility of a town win.
That is difficult, as it hinges of pairings, but I will do my best, then try to explain...
1) Bishop Gore. Presence on so many lynch votes is a big factor here. Sudden turn on Thor makes me suspicious too.
2a) IF Bishop Gore is a 'stealer, Arheiner or Shas is my choice for his partner, despite sharing his voting pattern with Thor and DDRE.
2b) If Bishop Gore is town, then I feel Thor is a stealer.
3) If Thor is a stealer, I think his partner is either Shas'o or DDRE. The potential Thor/DDRE alliance is based on sharing all of the same lynch votes.
4) Shas'o is moving down my list, but could still be a 'stealer with either Bishop Gore OR Thor.
5) I don't think Arheiner is a 'stealer. I just think he is a bored townie.
An outside bet would be Thor and Bishop Gore as the pair. I can imagine Thor is clever enough to suggest they get one or other killed so that the survivor looks innocent, but to save that tactic until the end of the game. Still seems high risk though...
If Thor/DDRE is based on us being on the same votes then how come Thor/BishopGore is less likely? We've also been on the same lynches as well.
I guess I can see Thor/shas since I have been defending him for so much of the thread - but I did (and probably still do) have a pretty solid feeling town read on him. He just hasn't done anything that felt scummy and mostly just feels a little lost to me.
Thor665 wrote:If Thor/DDRE is based on us being on the same votes then how come Thor/BishopGore is less likely? We've also been on the same lynches as well.
I guess I can see Thor/shas since I have been defending him for so much of the thread - but I did (and probably still do) have a pretty solid feeling town read on him. He just hasn't done anything that felt scummy and mostly just feels a little lost to me.
I would not rule out a Thor/Bishop Gore combo, but the interactions between the two of you seem to have just the tiniest amount of needle in them. Not genuine nastiness or anything, just a little bit of niggliness that I don't think could be faked. Nothing I can pin down, just general tone.
Since my mega-post on Shas, I've seen little to think him more scummy, so my feelings on him are mixed. However, if he were your partner, I believe you are doing quite enough talking for the both of you, and his neutrality could easily be part of your plotting each night.
Like I said though, I can come up with about a thousand different scenarios, just like the last game. I struggle rather more with narrowing it down to one scenario.
To be honest, I do not think you are a 'stealer, Thor, but I won't rule it out 100%. You seem to be too competent at the game in general to be completely free of suspicion.
I'm not seeing much discussion happening, Fifty, do you have any particular topics you'd like to have aired at this point? If not I'm more for just doing the 'no lynch' and assessing our situation after the NK.
At that point we can start serious discussion of who the likely pairs are that are left and try to reason out who amongst them is a good lynch.
Tbh, I don't think there is likely to be much more discussion after all. I agree and suggest we try and proceed to "no lynch" if anyone will take that step.
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END OF DAY 3 STORY POST
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An uneasy silence settles in over the group. With nothing productive gained today, everyone departs to their rooms knowing that tomorrow will hold the last chance for the loyalists survival... if they manage to survive the night.
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Get your night actions to me before 1800 EST Friday. I may have limited connectivity, so be patient if I don't get everything posted right away.
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BEGINNING OF DAY 4 STORY POST
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The dark figure slowly stalked his prey through the corridors, matching each step with his own. Days of careful planning, watching, and waiting were finally about to come to fruition. He had patiently waited for overconfidence to set in, allowing him to catch one of his targets alone where he could be safely dealt with. Now it was time to reveal that more than one evil stalked this tomb!
Fifty leaps out from the shadows, a jagged, makeshift shank in his hand, spinning his target to face him. With a quick, sure thrust, he burys the blade into the stomach of his unsuspecting victim. Rather than the green ichor he was expecting, the wound gushes bright red blood. As the body falls to the floor, Fifty realizes that Bishop Gore was a loyal Imperial Citizen. He only has time to think "Oh Shi..." as a blow from behind knocks him unconsious.
Fifty wakes to find himself tied up facing Arheiner and Shas'O, both of which are tied up to the far wall. Thor and DDRE both grin manically as they watch Fifty come to his senses. Thor says, "We're going to show you how to really instill fear in someone as you watch us slowly kill your "friends"... and know that we're saving something far worse for you."
Fifty was a Night Lords Aspirant ====================================
In case anyone hasn't figured it out, Fifty targeted Bishop Gore and the Stealers targetted Fifty.
Well I know you were getting suspicious Stynier - that's why we killed you deader then a doorknob before you could pollute the town with all your evil mumbo jumbo.
I'm actually surprised Fifty was a NLA - I didn't see that coming. The hiding trick was ballsy, shame it didn't pay off better for him.
Here are all of my Night Phase messages to Gornall...
Fifty wrote:In my first night phase, I do not wish to kill anyone.
I haven't got many ideas yet about who the 'stealers are. I want to get rid of a few townies and make things clearer, maybe then I will start using my night-kills. Or maybe I won't! Let them think there is no NLA. Mwuahahaha!
I voted Dark_O, but that was purely because he is a better bet than most others due to being crazy, not because I think he is much more likely. If I was forced to pick a 'stealer, it would be Shas, I think.
Fifty wrote:Once again, I think I will pass on taking any Night Phase actions. I do nto want to alert either townies or 'stealers to the existence of an NLA yet. I am planning, at the moment, to wait until we get down to 4 or 5 players and then start offing folks.
I just have to hope that in the meantime the 'stealers do not target me, which, unfortunately, I think is a very real risk, as I have been very active. If Shas is a stealer, I am probably in trouble, but, truth be told, I think he is just not very good, and see him as a good lynch to thin out the numbers of townies before the end! Losing a 'stealer this early would probably be bad for me.
Fifty wrote:After much deliberation, I have once again decided not to kill anyone in this night phase.
Although there is the very real risk that Stealers may kill me this night phase, as well as the risk I may get lynched tomorrow, I think I will save my first murder for the next phase. If I night kill someone now and I did not get a 'stealer, it could be disastrous as there would be very little tme left to find both stealers, and few to help do so. I would also be exposing myself and revealing the existence of an NLA.
Right now, I have to hope town + me can find a stealer in the next day phase. I also have to hope I do not get lynched tomorrow. I don't think I look too scummy, but with two 'stealers who may try to pin it on me, they won't need to sway many people to vote for me.
I still do not have many ideas who the 'stealers may be. As we go along, I think Thor looks more likely. I'd have thought 'stealers would have killed him by now. If he does not get killed tonight, I will kill him tomorrow for sure, if I do not get lynched. He is either a 'stealer or a competent townie, and either way, I need him dead. I think the Lord Loss death could easily be a Thor murder.
If Thor is a 'stealer, I think Bishop Gore is his buddy.
... a couple of posts about win-loss mechanics, but nothing interesting, so I won't bother posting...
Fifty wrote:Sorry, but there is no-one else to point this out to...
I am top of Thor's town list, and yet he regards me as a poorly played NLA. Hehehehe!!
Do you know why he says that? I assume it is considered unwise to not night-kill as an NLA, but I do not see how it is to my advantage to do so from the beginning. Doing so immediately would have just sent people looking for me. Maybe last night I should have killed, but even if I had, it would just have left me in a very similar situation to what I am in anyway.
Is there some strategy out there I should have read to know what I was doing?
Anyway, just making idle chit-chat.
Fifty wrote:I would like to night-kill Bishop Gore.
He has gone by with relatively little attention through this game, and I have a feeling he is a good target, based on his voting record and his posts over the last week or so. Suddenly targetting Thor makes him seem suspect. I hope I am right, 'cos if I do not hit a 'stealer, then 'stealers win.
If he is a stealer, I will still not be otally sure who his partner is. I don't think Thor is a 'stealer, but if he is, I think he will get rid of me tonight. He has known I do not suspect him, so would not have targetted me until tonight, but at this stage, I think he would take me out.
I bet it comes as a hell of a big surprise when two people die tonight...
(Unless, of course, BG is town, and he gets killed by the stealers as well as myself. If BG is not a 'stealer, I am banking on DDRE being one. I would not be surprised if they are the team.)
I don't think Shas'o is a stealer anymore, but I will be well cheesed off if it turns out he is! For one thing, if I had been able to expose a 'stealer early game, I'd have guaranteed having the town trust me, and had it easier to pull of an NLA win!! I think Arheiner is just a bored townie, but he could be the inactive half of a 'stealer team.
Damnit, I should have followed my own advice from the Third Night Phase and killed Thor in the 4th phase. I never actually felt sure he was a 'stealer though, just a small chance of being a 'stealer and definitely a townie who needed to die. Mind you, I would still have been dead, so it would not have mattered.
Btw, I made a VERY real effort to think throughout the game as if I was a townie, and really align myself with them until the last possible moment (except, I admit, when I was trying to get Shas lynched. I only though he was a 'stealer for a little while, then just decided to get rid of a townie, figuring town were sure to find a 'stealer soon). I figured my best chance of winning was to wreck it at the last minute for the town as they came close to a win, rather than steal it from the 'stealers as they came close to a victory.
Unfortunately, town incompetence, myself included, meant that I had to alter my position to try and steal the win from the 'stealers, and that was always going to be more difficult.
I think Arheiner's inactivity, and Shas's flitting in and out of the game was a major detriment to our chances. Arheiner was reasonably active in the game he joined part way through, and it sounds like he was very active in the game running concurrently with this one. Although, numerically, it would have harmed town's chances, I'd have liked to have seen Arheiner mod-killed for his inactivity. That was not just posturing during the game to try and gain an advantage, it was a genuine real-life preference for playing with/against players who are interested. I would urge anyone and everyone to only play in one game at a time if they can only maintain interest in one at a time. I had a few very short phases where I did not post for a bit, but even the longest was only a few days, and that was exacerbated by a night phase.
Shas'o obviously was just genuinely inexperienced, but, ironically, would have been much more use to us if he had followed some of Thor's advice more often.
DDRE should probably have been further up my suspect list than he was, as he was a bit too quiet. He and Bishop Gore were in the same slot in my brain, and I probably reacted wrongly when Bishop Gore came out against Thor. Why would he do so as late as he did if he were a 'stealer? He could have just lynched him any time. DDRE's silence towards Thor was, with the benefit of hindsight, more suspicious than BG's attacks. I overcomplicated things in my own mind by thinking that BG and Thor could have cooked up a little scam to make one look more innocent by lynching the other.
Yeah... I am kind of glad this didn't drag on for another night. I made the mistake of trying to play in 2 games at once and it meant I had to choose a game to get into, I chose the other game. By the time that one ended I didn't have a clue what was going on here and just decided to flail blindly.
I apologise to the other townies who died on the run up to the end, I feel I should have made myself a target and died sooner so that someone else could have stayed alive.
Hats off to Thor and DDRE. Thors constant aiming at DDRE after so many incorrect guesses made everyone assume there couldn't be a link there. Well played guys
Interesting game to watch was that. I knew Thor was a stealer by about day 3, for the simple reason he wasn't dead yet. Any competent stealer would kill him off first night if he wasn't a stealer himself. He was also cleverly leading the group into lynching innocents, and using that as a reason he wasn't being killed by the stealers. In my mind, that excuse didn't really hold water.
As for who his partner was, I completely thought it was fifty tbh. I certainately wouldn't have put him as being a NLA. I barely suspected DDRE at all.
Overall, I think the game was well played all round, apart from a few slip ups here and there.
Anyway, who's running the next one and when? I'd quite like to sign up.
I really thought Fifty had a good chance of pulling off a win or a tie. My only knock on his play is that he should never have voted for the "No Lynch". He should have really focused on getting a lynch to make his night kill more likely to land on a stealer. However, with two of the remaining townies being super quiet, he was kinda hosed.
Speaking of quiet townies. I am not happy with the number of people who signed up for the game and didn't follow through. The game doesn't work with so many people not checking in and making statements, so if you're not going to actually play, I would ask that you don't sign up so everyone else can still have fun.
@ Lord_Loss: Can you explain if you read this why you didn't protect Not_u first night? Anyone with the balls to declare themselves inquisitor first post deserves to be protected, Stealer or no.
@ Thor/Deff Dredd Red Edition: Which one of you was promoted to stealer mode? Not that it matters much, I'm just interested as to how you reacted to a sudden role-switch.
I didn't protect N0t_u because I didn't believe he was an Inqusitior. Errr I actually protected Thor Night 1,2.
I started to get suspicous about how he hadn't been night killed and was going to give it a few (ingame) days before I posted about it. I havn't actually read the thread since I died (I'm lazy like that)
I also though that Thor was more valuable to the town then N0t_u (No offense) If he was night killed, I don't think It would have been good for the town and our stealer hunting. I thought my decision was right, shame Thor was like a Stealer though.
I'm also going to say that I found out I was a Doctor only when Gornall PMed me asking why I hadn't PMed him my decision. For some reason the Role PM didn't get through...
Dastardly Dave wrote:Interesting game to watch was that. I knew Thor was a stealer by about day 3, for the simple reason he wasn't dead yet. Any competent stealer would kill him off first night if he wasn't a stealer himself. He was also cleverly leading the group into lynching innocents, and using that as a reason he wasn't being killed by the stealers. In my mind, that excuse didn't really hold water.
Honestly I thought it did. If I'm scum and there's a very pro town guy who everyone trusts and he thinks I'm town - I'm not killing that guy at night. Please reference Brother Stynier, I let him live as long as he was singing my praises pretty much. I did the same for Fifty, the only reason he lived so long was because he was always talking about me in a pro town manner and seemed easy to get onto the lynches I supported. The first night was decided for the stealers - we had to kill N0t_u, he was the Inquisitor - I was happy about that because it was an automatic night where there was no suspicion in me not being NKed.
shas'o vera wrote:huh, the second genestealer game and i managed to survive to the end.
I will toss a bit of water on your joy - the Genestealers never tried to kill you because we were certain you weren't going to accurately spot either of us, and even if you did we doubted you'd get any support from the rest of town.
Dastardly Dave wrote:@ Thor/Deff Dredd Red Edition: Which one of you was promoted to stealer mode? Not that it matters much, I'm just interested as to how you reacted to a sudden role-switch.
DDRE was the replacement stealer - I was scum from the very beginning.
I will note that I told Gornall I was worried the replacing Stealer was going to hurt town, but in retrospect with both a Psyker and Inquisitor on the town side and no role block power for the Stealers I think it was more balanced then I had first thought.
Lord-Loss wrote:I've just realised the game is over.
I didn't protect N0t_u because I didn't believe he was an Inqusitior. Errr I actually protected Thor Night 1,2.
Awesome.
I will apologize for the harshness I was tossing at the "stupid" Psyker role. This was actually because when we didn't have a roleblocker and n0t_u declared Inquisitor I was planning to set myself up as the Psyker - so all my moaning and grumping about a "stupid" Psyker was going to be used later when I would claim that I'd protected some other pr town player because I was trying to outguess the Genestealers.
Dastardly Dave wrote:Anyway, who's running the next one and when? I'd quite like to sign up.
Not_U is running the next, his sign up thread is already up and running. He's got the 12 he wanted, now he's looking for more, he has quite a massive project idea in mind.
Gornall wrote:I really thought Fifty had a good chance of pulling off a win or a tie. My only knock on his play is that he should never have voted for the "No Lynch". He should have really focused on getting a lynch to make his night kill more likely to land on a stealer. However, with two of the remaining townies being super quiet, he was kinda hosed.
Speaking of quiet townies. I am not happy with the number of people who signed up for the game and didn't follow through. The game doesn't work with so many people not checking in and making statements, so if you're not going to actually play, I would ask that you don't sign up so everyone else can still have fun.
Speaking for myself, I am very sorry about that Gornall. I know I would have enjoyed this more if the other game hadn't been going on. I have learnt my lesson though and hope next time you'll let me join in again, this time with a more active and hopefully insightful mode of play
Thor665 wrote:Well I know you were getting suspicious Stynier - that's why we killed you deader then a doorknob before you could pollute the town with all your evil mumbo jumbo.
I'm actually surprised Fifty was a NLA - I didn't see that coming. The hiding trick was ballsy, shame it didn't pay off better for him.
I wasn't sure how to go about convincing them that you were one of the stealers, other than saying he's controlling everything don't trust him. Well played though.
I'm going to be out of town mid July and all of August so I'm ducking that one. When I get back I plan to run one themed on the Battle of Prospero with a lot of different/new roles.
I'm going to be out of town mid July and all of August so I'm ducking that one. When I get back I plan to run one themed on the Battle of Prospero with a lot of different/new roles.
. I've given up trying to convince you otherwise, hopefully it'll come naturally. I think it's a waste though, as I feel you're barking up the wrong tree. The princess is not in this castle.
) I am willing for him to convince me he is innocent, I just can't see it happening. Right now, he is someone we can afford to lose if I am wrong, because as a townie, he adds nothing other than a warm body. There would be no reason for 'stealers to consider targetting him, because there is no way he would find them. If Thor, for example, is pro-town, then eventually we can expect him to find some 'stealers. I really do get the vibe that he is "acting n00b" though, as a strategy rather than a fact.
