The last time stickmonkey saw anything (that he could talk about) was MONTHS ago. Again, pretty much calling someone a liar isnt really cool in my book, unless he's been proven to be a liar.

He's said that he works with GW early in the process, and then NDAs kick in, and he can no longer talk about what is upcoming.

I'll wait, and compare what he said with the early set of rumours back in November. He said that they would be pushed back from Q1(Where he originally put them)... Well... April is the beginning of Q2.

If we get the walker, along with really ornate GKTs, and nice looking PAGK.... I'll consider him pretty reliable at that point.

(Edit: For those who can't be bothered, this is the substance of what SM posted months ago, re-iterated recently)

1. Expect a new codex which expands the fluff greatly.
2. Expect plastic Terminator GKs, in scale and compatiable with current plastic Teminators
3. Expect plastic power armor sized GKs, whether this armor is actually aegis, annointer, artificer, etc is a mute point, they will be in scale and compatible with all other standard sized marines
4. Expect new sculpts of existing metal character minis
5. Expect a few "new" plastic kits and metal blisters (for the specific rumored kits see the numerous other threads, I'm not going to reveal anything specific here)
6. This will be a wave release, not all of the units of the codex will be represented by models in the release or current ranges
7. IMHO, the models are some of the best sculpts I've ever seen out of GW

The only problem is that I could have made that same list. It feels like a lot of pussyfooting around and vague enough that most of it will turn out to be right and he could claim vindication.

What about that list of Tyranid rumors from Stickmonkey that I linked to the on last page? It'd be one thing if maybe a quarter of those were wrong, or something got lost in translation, but not one of those has turned out to be true in the slightest. The only thing that might be true is the bit about a biomorph sprue being released in late January, and only because we're still in the middle of January.

EDIT: Actually, while Stickmonkey's rumors have influenced discussion of the upcoming GK codex and is somewhat on-topic, I feel like this deserves it's own thread. Question is whether it should go in Rumor discussion or General chat.

I'd say General, if you're talking about discussing the rumour feed.

EDIT: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/339348.page#2321112

RustyKnight wrote:Just rename the SC.

No.

I don't see why I should have to use a character I don't want to play the army I could play yesterday without him. If it is 'Inquisitors unlock XYZ' then fine, but 'Inquisitor Named McSpecialCharacter unlocks XYZ', then the book can go to hell.


As I said, would you say the same thing to a Blood Angel player if Blood Angel players had been told that they wouldn't be getting a Codex and they had to 'counts as' the Special Characters in the Marine Codex to make their army? No you wouldn't. Because that would be stupid. So don't tell those of us with Ordo Malleus armies that we can keep playing them if we play something different.

Kanluwen wrote:

Jaon wrote:

bhsman wrote:
EDIT: Quick change in topic, but what do you guys say about the metal vs. grey debate, ie, how to paint your GKs? I've been going back and forth on it.

ignoring the price for a second, I would like to say I hate metal miniatures, and would happily see every metal mini changed to plastic any day, there's no advantage.

Plastic is easier to glue and to paint IMO, YMMV. I welcome the change, since I plan to be termie heavy.

He was actually referring to the paint colors for Grey Knights...
I.E. "Do you paint your Grey Knights silvered metal or flat grey?"

....*headdesk*


Automatically Appended Next Post:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

RustyKnight wrote:Just rename the SC.

No.

I don't see why I should have to use a character I don't want to play the army I could play yesterday without him. If it is 'Inquisitors unlock XYZ' then fine, but 'Inquisitor Named McSpecialCharacter unlocks XYZ', then the book can go to hell.


As I said, would you say the same thing to a Blood Angel player if Blood Angel players had been told that they wouldn't be getting a Codex and they had to 'counts as' the Special Characters in the Marine Codex to make their army? No you wouldn't. Because that would be stupid. So don't tell those of us with Ordo Malleus armies that we can keep playing them if we play something different.

You are getting up in arms about something that is inevitable and needed. Its impossible to make a competitive 5th edition army from a 3rd edition army without major change. I doubt it will take you long to look past its failures when the new codex comes out. GW cant please everyone.

I agree with HBMC. Even with counts-as, it is ridiculous if the only Inquisitors who ever operate without GK assistance are those that carry Daemonhammers, wear Terminator armour and know two specific psychic powers.

Jaon wrote:You are getting up in arms about something that is inevitable and needed. Its impossible to make a competitive 5th edition army from a 3rd edition army without major change. I doubt it will take you long to look past its failures when the new codex comes out. GW cant please everyone.

It is not needed. That's the problem. It is an arbitrary restriction that does not make for a better game.

AlexHolker wrote:It is not needed. That's the problem. It is an arbitrary restriction that does not make for a better game.

It's also an unconfirmed problem. Why worry about it now - it mmay never happen.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
No.

I don't see why I should have to use a character I don't want to play the army I could play yesterday without him. If it is 'Inquisitors unlock XYZ' then fine, but 'Inquisitor Named McSpecialCharacter unlocks XYZ', then the book can go to hell.

Why would you be so opposed to counts-as'ing the special character for one of your many inquisitors? There's a pretty damn good chance that the SC inquisitor would have a power weapon or a daemon hammer, and I'm sure at least one of your inq's has that. What's the harm in using the named SC's rules? Nothing changes except you get a more updated army.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
As I said, would you say the same thing to a Blood Angel player if Blood Angel players had been told that they wouldn't be getting a Codex and they had to 'counts as' the Special Characters in the Marine Codex to make their army? No you wouldn't. Because that would be stupid. So don't tell those of us with Ordo Malleus armies that we can keep playing them if we play something different.

They're moving all of one unit to a different force org slot (maybe). This is no way similar to removing an entire army. Does the new book look to have an even greater GK focus? Yes, but the non-GK offerings in the current codex are miniscule already. I listed them all in my last post (which you seemed to ignore), and the daemonhost is the only thing that might not make the transition.

warboss wrote: guess that's true if you only play 1000pt games or less but most people don't. Leman Russ tanks with sponsons only cost 170pts each so 340 there... most common platoon i've seen is with 4 squads and a heavy/special squad each = 410pts depending on the loadout (this is with flamers/grenadelaunchers/misslelaunchers). You can take 2 tanks and a decent sized platoon for 750pts which is half the size of the "standard" 1500pt game (most people around here play 1750-2000). In fact, you can fit in a GK grand master, a terminator squad, and two additional gk squads into 1500pts along side it. with the allies gone, this person now has a 750pt too-small-to-play separate IG army and GK army. if this change is true, it does affect people out there (not me personally) and denying that is foolhardy. is it a change for the better for the rest of us? who knows until the codex comes out.

The community has known the "Allies" rules were going for years now; it's the necessary and ineveitable change. A 750 point guard army could bloom into a full fledged 1500 point force with the addition of some transports and another battle tank or two.

AlexHolker wrote:I agree with HBMC. Even with counts-as, it is ridiculous if the only Inquisitors who ever operate without GK assistance are those that carry Daemonhammers, wear Terminator armour and know two specific psychic powers.

As long as you're taking multiple Inquisitors or your current inquisitor has that load-out, it won't be a problem. If you're taking only one inquisitor without the really unique Daemonhunter stuff, why not just play IG? That codex will give you more options than the current one.

I was unaware of a restriction, but I see what your saying. Yes, the restriction is entirely unnecessary.

Just give a HQ option that unlocks Inquisitorial Stormtroopers at the cost of maybe one or two units; yet still allows Grey Knights in a more elite, more rare role. Your army will still have to have Grey Knight units in it, while giving Inq Storms as an option; a real Demon Hunters army.

Would that solve things? For me, it would and I tend to lean more to the Inq side than Ordo Militant.

Jaon wrote:
I would like to say I hate metal miniatures, and would happily see every metal mini changed to plastic any day, t

I shall agree. I dont hate metal, but i prefer plastic by far. Most plastic cinversion work I can do with a hooby knife, sandpaper, and my hobby saw. Metal most times requires the use of my dremel...and cleaning thousands of tiny metal shavings is a pain. Theres also the lack of fine control.

RustyKnight wrote:As long as you're taking multiple Inquisitors or your current inquisitor has that load-out, it won't be a problem.

So if you were already planning on spending 150+ points on a Coteaz lookalike, spending 150+ points on a Coteaz lookalike isn't a problem? What if you aren't planning on spending that much on a Coteaz-lookalike?

If you're taking only one inquisitor without the really unique Daemonhunter stuff, why not just play IG? That codex will give you more options than the current one.

Because the codex has more than one set of unique Daemonhunter stuff. A Psycannon or Annoited Weapon is just as valid a choice as a Daemonhammer.

What?

BoyMac wrote:

Clad in baroque Terminator armour and wielding powerful weapons such as storm bolters and Nemesis force weapons, the Grey Knights tear through the enemy, unleashing an onslaught of psychic powers and sorcery to sunder the foe.

Sorcery?
WTF?
Since when did anyone loyal (besides pre heresy 1000 sons) use sorcery?

I call SHENANIGANS on this writer!!

Because there's zero difference between sorcery and psychic powers. They're both the same thing when you get past the Imperial bias.

bhsman wrote:but what do you guys say about the metal vs. grey debate, ie, how to paint your GKs? I've been going back and forth on it.

Dusty light grey for me to get a nice battle-worn look. Not a fan of the pure silver look, I find it boring.
Hopefully before the release GW will put up some painting/color scheme articles for the knights like they did with the Dark Eldar.

Since when did anyone loyal (besides pre heresy 1000 sons) use sorcery?

Even a casual reader of the 40K background material knows that the two things are the same thing in 40K. In that background lore, there are "unregistered" psykers and "registered, trained" psykers. The unregistered ones are labeled as witches, sorcerers, heretics, etc. and hunted down by Imperial officials.

Vhalyar wrote:
Hopefully before the release GW will put up some painting/color scheme articles for the knights like they did with the Dark Eldar.

Well if the release is in April, then Id say we should start getting teasers sometime in Feb, or early March at the latest. My guess would be teasers in Feb, full on previews in March. Basically look back at what they did leading up to the DE release, and transfer that to GK. You know GW...they like to keep the interest going and build up the "gotta have it, gotta have it" real good before a major release.

BrassScorpion wrote:

Since when did anyone loyal (besides pre heresy 1000 sons) use sorcery?

Even a casual reader of the 40K background material knows that the two things are the same thing in 40K.

Yeah thanks, it's not my first day...

That was my entire point, why would this writer refer to them as using "psychic powers AND SCORCERY " unless this writer was a complete tool.

NagothDaCleaver wrote:That was my entire point, why would this writer refer to them as using "psychic powers AND SCORCERY " unless this writer was a complete tool.

Because the recent rumors are indicating that the Grey Knights make massive use of psychic powers, down to their vehicle pilots using them. So the writer is putting a double focus on the psyker aspect of the army. I guess he's a tool for trying to describe the feel of the updated Grey Knights?

Vhalyar wrote:

NagothDaCleaver wrote:That was my entire point, why would this writer refer to them as using "psychic powers AND SCORCERY " unless this writer was a complete tool.

Because the recent rumors are indicating that the Grey Knights make massive use of psychic powers, down to their vehicle pilots using them. So the writer is putting a double focus on the psyker aspect of the army. I guess he's a tool for trying to describe the feel of the updated Grey Knights?

No, he's a tool because he worded it incorrectly if that was his intent. Sorcery has a tremendous negative connotation in the Imperium.

So do psychic powers. "Psychic powers and sorcery" may be a bit redundant, but I don't see how it makes the writer a tool.

I'm scared now, ANOTHER army that can beat orks into the ground in assault! I wish orks still had plasma cannons!

The Dreadnote wrote:So do psychic powers. "Psychic powers and sorcery" may be a bit redundant, but I don't see how it makes the writer a tool.

That's because your not a jerk like me. My point, which i have utterly failed to convey, is that GW never refers to the Psychers in the the Imperium as Sorcerers or as using sorcery.

That is a term they only use to describe the Psychers of the Xenos races and of the Chaos legions.

Wording often makes a big difference, and the word "sorcery" has indeed almost always been used in a negative sense in 40K background, so I agree it is at least rather odd to use this specific word for the Grey Knights.

I'm not sure why people feel the need to argue against this. So the writer screwed up here. Big fething deal.

NagothDaCleaver wrote:

Vhalyar wrote:

NagothDaCleaver wrote:That was my entire point, why would this writer refer to them as using "psychic powers AND SCORCERY " unless this writer was a complete tool.

Because the recent rumors are indicating that the Grey Knights make massive use of psychic powers, down to their vehicle pilots using them. So the writer is putting a double focus on the psyker aspect of the army. I guess he's a tool for trying to describe the feel of the updated Grey Knights?

No, he's a tool because he worded it incorrectly if that was his intent. Sorcery has a tremendous negative connotation in the Imperium.

I, at least, understand completely where you're coming from. Heck, the entire purpose of the Council of Nikaea was to ban sorcery, which was anything undertaken by an unsanctioned Imperial psyker.

zilegil wrote:I'm scared now, ANOTHER army that can beat orks into the ground in assault!

Nothing a liberal application of Ork Boyz can't solve.

Fafnir wrote:

rodgers37 wrote:Fail GW I'm sure many people could run that company better

I'm sure that a blindfolded monkey with a stapler jammed up his ass could run the company better, but what exactly are you getting at?

Fafnir, that is sig quotable. lol

Fafnir wrote:
I'm sure that a blindfolded monkey with a stapler jammed up his ass could run the company better, but what exactly are you getting at?

wait, you mean this isn't who's running GW?

There used to be a clear distinction between Sorcery and Psychic Power in 40K.

Apparently, that's no longer the case?

If so, that's too bad...

Other than how it's applied, I'd say that's no longer the case.

Sorcery is only ever used in regards to the baddies - typically Chaos Space Marines.

Psychic Power refers to any Psyker, including those who use Sorcery.

Maybe Sorcery is Psychic embrace of the Chaos gods? Whereas Psychic Power is just using the warp?

Alpharius wrote:There used to be a clear distinction between Sorcery and Psychic Power in 40K.

Apparently, that's no longer the case?

If so, that's too bad...

I completely agree, the trend has become that there is no difference between Psychers and Sorcerer's and i dislike that approach. I liked it better when Sorcerer's had a more ritualistic/demon-worshiper feel, instead of being just a psycher the Imperium doesn't like.

But it does fall right in line with the blatant hypocrisy that the Imperium was built upon.

That used to be the distinction.

Sorcery was bargaining for powers with some Warp Entity whereas psykers used the 'raw' warp to fuel their powers.

Psykers could be tricked, duped, fooled, etc. into trouble, but IF you were disciplined and kept your wits about you, you should be OK...

So yeah, having Grey Knights employ Sorcery?

No.

That sounds like a correct distinction to me actually.


I guess the Grey Knights/Sorcery thing was just a typo. Who would've thought GW were capable of such a thing?

RustyKnight wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:
No.

I don't see why I should have to use a character I don't want to play the army I could play yesterday without him. If it is 'Inquisitors unlock XYZ' then fine, but 'Inquisitor Named McSpecialCharacter unlocks XYZ', then the book can go to hell.

Why would you be so opposed to counts-as'ing the special character for one of your many inquisitors? There's a pretty damn good chance that the SC inquisitor would have a power weapon or a daemon hammer, and I'm sure at least one of your inq's has that. What's the harm in using the named SC's rules? Nothing changes except you get a more updated army.

A stupidly unfair and bias points cost?

H.B.M.C. wrote:
As I said, would you say the same thing to a Blood Angel player if Blood Angel players had been told that they wouldn't be getting a Codex and they had to 'counts as' the Special Characters in the Marine Codex to make their army? No you wouldn't. Because that would be stupid. So don't tell those of us with Ordo Malleus armies that we can keep playing them if we play something different.

They're moving all of one unit to a different force org slot (maybe). This is no way similar to removing an entire army. Does the new book look to have an even greater GK focus? Yes, but the non-GK offerings in the current codex are miniscule already. I listed them all in my last post (which you seemed to ignore), and the daemonhost is the only thing that might not make the transition.

AlexHolker wrote: So if you were already planning on spending 150+ points on a Coteaz lookalike, spending 150+ points on a Coteaz lookalike isn't a problem? What if you aren't planning on spending that much on a Coteaz-lookalike?

I've hit the cost point below.

Because the codex has more than one set of unique Daemonhunter stuff. A Psycannon or Annoited Weapon is just as valid a choice as a Daemonhammer.

I'd be surprised if Psycannons stay as an option for Inquisitors. Imperial doctrine insists that leaders of any kind must carry swords. The Anointed weapon is a power weapon with an absurdly narrow band of targets for it's special rules (a band of targets that mostly hit before an Inquisitor and instant kill him anyways). Ultimately, the difference between an all IST army and an IG one will come down to a couple of names and the fact that one of thos two will have more and better equipment.

alphaomega wrote:A stupidly unfair and bias points cost?

You're complaining that the point cost on a SC that may or may not exist may or may not be too high? For all we know generic inquisitors will unlock IST's as troops. Hell, IST's might end up troops normally. Regardless, at 150+ points, this SC would be doing a lot more than just allowing IST's as troops. Look at the DE codex and all the rules their IC's bring. Even if the guy costs more, the massive decrease in costs all the transports will be getting should cover the difference in cost between SC inquisitor and generic.

alphaomega wrote:Grey Knight Hero
Grey Knight Terminators
Grey Knight in Power Armour
Grey Knight Land Raiders
Grey Knight Dreanought.

This list is actually smaller in the Deamon Hunters codex than the Ordos Malleus units...

You're right. I shouldn't have used "even greater." Course, my point still stands. Reshuffling how one gets IST's won't be destroying armies.

RustyKnight, You do make a valid point. My Original post was that I hope it doesn't invalidate the 60 IST and Inquistors that I already do own, as I do tend to play DH more than WH with my models.

Fingers crossed all will still be okay.

My point about bias points cost was that, most special characters do seem a bit points heavy (Current Cortez springs to mind) so if the points are balanced then it will not be so much an issue, just more Inquisitors for my collection I guess.

I am quite happy to be wrong about all this, but past experience with GW has taught me that when an entire Codex gets a massive paradigm shift in its focus, those that aren't part of that focus get left behind.

If a non-GK Ordo Malleus army is possible once this Codex is out (and without the need for Special Characters) then that's fine, but I don't expect that with a Codex called "Grey Knights".

Nice, grey knights. It'll be interesting to see what the codex will mean for these guys.

H.B.M.C. wrote:(and without the need for Special Characters)

A more cynical man than I might attribute an ulterior motive for avoiding all of my explanations of why needing a special character is no biggy.

Wow, Daemonhunters makes me want to comeback to the game, but if you lot(a few of you) are the local meta, then no thank you. What a bunch of whiners, boo hoo i may or may not be able to play my army exactly as i was and now i want to cry about it.


Play Lost and Damned and get over it

fire4effekt wrote:Wow, Daemonhunters makes me want to comeback to the game, but if you lot(a few of you) are the local meta, then no thank you. What a bunch of whiners, boo hoo i may or may not be able to play my army exactly as i was and now i want to cry about it.


Play Lost and Damned and get over it

This doesn't earn you any points with them, or anyone else, as you're basically answering complaining with more complaining. And they're a bit more entitled to it than you

It does bode badly for some who thought this release was Codex: Inquisition/Ordo Malleus.

Destrado wrote:It does bode badly for some who thought this release was Codex: Inquisition/Ordo Malleus.

I'd have thought that of the people complaining here would at least have steeled themselves for the possibility, what with every single relevant rumor saying that the Inquisition would be downplayed in favor of Grey Knights.

Destrado wrote:
It does bode badly for some who thought this release was Codex: Inquisition/Ordo Malleus.

In all fairness...it has been pretty well known that it would be Codex:Grey Knights for a while now. That should make it pretty obvious who was going to be focused on. Sure, it sucks for Inq/OM players, but at least theyve had some warning and didnt find out when the book was released.

It also shouldnt be a surprise. Think about it, GW had a choice...focus the codex on a group that very few people play and would likely draw in few new players...OR...focus on their bread and butter, Space Marines. Add in the fact that the current metal GK are widely praised as some of GWs best work and new versions would likely get a huge amount of attention...it was almost a given GK would win out over Inq.

Another point to note...GW invalidates old armies on purpose. Making a book that allows you to use all the minis you already own doesnt make them nearly as much money as releasing a book that causes you to have to buy a bunch more.

Its been their MO for a good long time. If you really dont like it, stop playing their games and buying their products. Contrary to what they would have you believe there are other games out there, and some are pretty good.

I think it comes down to people complaining just so they can be heard. Some people might be a little miffed or embarassed that they were wrong about the title or the units in it or heck that it would or would not come out. Most important thing right now, is that the book is coming out in April (God help GW if its an April Fools joke). With the coming of the new book there will be several sides taken:

New Guys: Band wagoners, new players, etc. Who love it cause its new, shiny and ultra awesome.

Old Guys: Daemonhunter codex hardliners. Hate it cause its been tweaked, updated, etc.

Complainers: Hate it cause it makes their armies less likely to dominate games, not realizing that its balanced and the game ultimatley comes down to one important thing...random....thats RANDOM...dice roll.

GW Enthusiats: Love the game, love the models, etc. They dont care which side is right or wrong, just want to enjoy the game, paint and convert some minis.

Im sure there are other groups but thats it for now. Im hoping the book will not be stagnant and a lot of the "confirmed" rumors end up being true. I love the idea of versatility that the army is shaping up to be. Though I have waaaay to many armies to start yet another, I will probably buy some of the new shiny stuff for the hobby aspect.

Father Gabe wrote:I think it comes down to people complaining just so they can be heard. Some people might be a little miffed or embarassed that they were wrong about the title or the units in it or heck that it would or would not come out. Most important thing right now, is that the book is coming out in April (God help GW if its an April Fools joke). With the coming of the new book there will be several sides taken:

New Guys: Band wagoners, new players, etc. Who love it cause its new, shiny and ultra awesome.

Old Guys: Daemonhunter codex hardliners. Hate it cause its been tweaked, updated, etc.

Complainers: Hate it cause it makes their armies less likely to dominate games, not realizing that its balanced and the game ultimatley comes down to one important thing...random....thats RANDOM...dice roll.

GW Enthusiats: Love the game, love the models, etc. They dont care which side is right or wrong, just want to enjoy the game, paint and convert some minis.

Im sure there are other groups but thats it for now. Im hoping the book will not be stagnant and a lot of the "confirmed" rumors end up being true. I love the idea of versatility that the army is shaping up to be. Though I have waaaay to many armies to start yet another, I will probably buy some of the new shiny stuff for the hobby aspect.

Truth right there. I know im in it for the painting and converting.

RustyKnight wrote:A more cynical man than I might attribute an ulterior motive for avoiding all of my explanations of why needing a special character is no biggy.

And a man such as myself doesn't care if you think I have an ulterior motive or not.

I don't mind characters unlocking elements of the army (eg. Marine Captain + Bike = Bikes as Troops). I do mind Special Characters, because Special Characters come with their own fluff and their own background stories and their own reasons for existing. I'm not a tournament player. I make army list choices that are logical and certainly do take things because they are effective during the game, but I always start with the fluff. Were I to play a Vulkan Marine army I would do so first because I want to play an army with Vulkan at its head, not because I want the abilities he confers. If my fluff said that my Sallie army* was led by a Librarian I wouldn't take Vulkan (rather than saying that Vulkan is the Libby) and just suffer without the Salamander special rules and I'd much rather there were Salamander special rules that weren't tied to a Special Character.

Imagine if the situation were reversed and we were about to get a Codex: Inquisition, and Grey Knights were in it but could only be taken as Troops if Captain Stern was taken. I wouldn't want all my GK forces** to be led by Captain Stern. That would be dull. And nonsensical. And just 'Counts As'-ing him as someone else doesn't help matters. And I'd feel very sorry for the GK players that were losing their army. I wouldn't browbeat them and explain why they still can field their army and to just suck it up and use the Special Character.




*I don't have a Salamander army, I'm just using them as an example.
**I don't have a GK army either. Again, it's just an example.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Alpharius wrote:Sorcery was bargaining for powers with some Warp Entity whereas psykers used the 'raw' warp to fuel their powers.

To further clarify (as taken from the descriptions given in Dark Heresy and its supplements), Sorcery in 40K isn't 'magic' in the Fantasy sense of the word, but the use of psychic and other Warp-based powers via non-natural means.

For example:

- Someone who has a natural ability to draw power from the Warp is a psyker.
- Someone who needs some alien/Chaos artefact or a bargain with a Daemon to draw power from the Warp is a Sorcerer (ie. their ability is not innate, and without the object/pact they would not have this ability).

GKs are all natural psykers. They should have no need for sorcery whatsoever.

Maybe it's just...indistinguishable from magic.

I wouldn't worry too much about the use of the word 'sorcery' in the article. If they can bring the Dark Eldar back with some minor fluff changes while keeping the whole ideal the same, I can't see them doing things differently with Grey Knights.

I guess my point is that there's no such thing as 'magic' (in the classical sense) within 40K. Everything, even Acts of Faith, has a warp-based or warp-originated explanation.

How that relates to the GK's is largely unimportant. They're psykers, but it's not unusual to hear people substitute 'psychic power' with 'spell' when talking about 40K psykers.

H.B.M.C. wrote: I don't mind characters unlocking elements of the army (eg. Marine Captain + Bike = Bikes as Troops).

But what if you want to only run a bike libby? Isn't this just as bad as giving the unlock to a SC? In both cases people are being forced to take certain units.

H.B.M.C. wrote: I do mind Special Characters, because Special Characters come with their own fluff and their own background stories and their own reasons for existing.

That reason being the provision of templates to access special rules. The idea of SC's as not so much the character but as templates was introduced in C:SM. That's how GW (and many) are looking at Vulkan; he's not just Vulkan but also a template to make an artifact wielding Salamander commander.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
If my fluff said that my Sallie army* was led by a Librarian I wouldn't take Vulkan (rather than saying that Vulkan is the Libby) and just suffer without the Salamander special rules and I'd much rather there were Salamander special rules that weren't tied to a Special Character.

What if you wanted a Salamander biker army with a librarian at its head? Would you complain that forcing you to take a captain was too strict?

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Imagine if the situation were reversed and we were about to get a Codex: Inquisition, and Grey Knights were in it but could only be taken as Troops if Captain Stern was taken. I wouldn't want all my GK forces** to be led by Captain Stern. That would be dull. And nonsensical. And just 'Counts As'-ing him as someone else doesn't help matters. And I'd feel very sorry for the GK players that were losing their army. I wouldn't browbeat them and explain why they still can field their army and to just suck it up and use the Special Character.

Stern and a GKGM/GKBC will have almost identical loadout. That's pretty much a perfect counts-as situation. Noone would be losing an army.

Vhalyar wrote:
I'd have thought that of the people complaining here would at least have steeled themselves for the possibility, what with every single relevant rumor saying that the Inquisition would be downplayed in favor of Grey Knights.

Mad4Minis wrote:
In all fairness...it has been pretty well known that it would be Codex:Grey Knights for a while now. That should make it pretty obvious who was going to be focused on. Sure, it sucks for Inq/OM players, but at least theyve had some warning and didnt find out when the book was released.

Was this announced before or after they bought their armies?

I don't have a GK or Inquisitor army, or SOB, but I think it's a bit odd introducing Grey Knights on their own (they are rarely, if ever, commited to a battlefield the same way SM armies are; they were generally associated with Imperial Guard armies). I think that this is what pissed some people. If not, then I apologize.

Mad4Minis wrote:Another point to note...GW invalidates old armies on purpose. Making a book that allows you to use all the minis you already own doesnt make them nearly as much money as releasing a book that causes you to have to buy a bunch more.

Its been their MO for a good long time. If you really dont like it, stop playing their games and buying their products. Contrary to what they would have you believe there are other games out there, and some are pretty good.

I'm sorry, while to a certain extent I agree with you, I feel for the player that collected an army and being unable to field it without "extreme makeover". They have supported the hobby as much as the next guy, built it around a theme - a Dark Angels player who had a 10th company scout army (granted, extreme, probably didn't happen ), players who bought Leman Russ Exterminators for their Space Wolf armies (3rd Edition), or heck, fielded Sternguard thanks to Kantor or Loganwing thanks to 6th edition codexes, should these players have their armies invalidated?

Losing costumers because of bad practice (IMHO) means they sell less, which in turn will mean they will raise prices to compensate. So, in a way, this affects us all, even if our armies aren't themed.

Actually Grey Knights operate on their own without support most of the time.

if they are being used then it means the threat is so great that other forces can't be used for fear of corruption(in the case of an active infestation), no other forces are avaliable, prehaps the target is a artifact in the posession of a Xeno or IG force that won't be handing it over and ISTs simply wouldn't be able to accomplish the task.


ISTs are actually a 2nd string force, not the primary one. Their job usually involves guarding Inquisitors and Inquisitional property, something that would waste a GK's skill. rarely will they be used to activly go after something when there is ample time to gather the needed supplies.

an Inquisitor using inducted IG is truly desperate.

Inducted Space Marines are usually used just like GKs would be.

Alpharius wrote:That used to be the distinction.

Sorcery was bargaining for powers with some Warp Entity whereas psykers used the 'raw' warp to fuel their powers.

Psykers could be tricked, duped, fooled, etc. into trouble, but IF you were disciplined and kept your wits about you, you should be OK...

So yeah, having Grey Knights employ Sorcery?

No.

I agree with the distinction, psykers use the raw warp, sorcerers use spells and a warp entity as an intermediary so they can do more subtle things.

BUT it could be that they are using sorcery with the Emperor as their warp patron.

Where's my no-prize?

Grey Templar wrote:an Inquisitor using inducted IG is truly desperate.
Inducted Space Marines are usually used just like GKs would be.

Actually... Dark Heresy's Ascension book contradicts you on that little bit. Inquisitors are more likely to take Guard troops as they are more numerous, can directly requisition them without anyone having any option and can easily be purged afterwards if the inquisitor deems the situation necessary.

For Space Marines they have to go and try and make some form of arrangement with the chapter. If the Chapter Master refuses the Inquisitor has no power to change his mind. "Please sir, Mr Chapter Master, Can I please borrow some of your highly prized and expert Brother Marines? No? Darnit!" An arrangement, especially a long term partnership, between an Inquisitor and a Space Marine Chapter is a highly prized and rare thing.

Grey Knights would only be brought on board for daemonic incursions, so their usage on the battlefield is rarely more than a few squads at a time

Oh and all the Inquisition players have my sympathy if their fears do come true. I've been through losing my army due to codex updates twice now (GS Cult, LatD). Technically 3 if you could the original Tyranid list in White Dwarf with the Zoats and mind slaves as a valid list. Damn. That makes 3 of the 6 40K armies I've ever had being demolished so much they had to be abandoned. :(

Grey Templar wrote:an Inquisitor using inducted IG is truly desperate.

Hardly. That's what they use most of the time, assuming they're even requisitioning an army at all.

If the Codex: Grey Knights places more focus on Grey Knights, and Codex: Sisters of Battle does the same...will there be a Codex: Inquisition for more Inq focused armies? or will they just increase the size of both those codexes and split the Inq army options between them to get more sales?

For Space Marines they have to go and try and make some form of arrangement with the chapter. If the Chapter Master refuses the Inquisitor has no power to change his mind. "Please sir, Mr Chapter Master, Can I please borrow some of your highly prized and expert Brother Marines? No? Darnit!" An arrangement, especially a long term partnership, between an Inquisitor and a Space Marine Chapter is a highly prized and rare thing.

This sort of reminds me of that Inquisitor movie where an Inquisitor works with Dark Angels.

Mr Hyena wrote:If the Codex: Grey Knights places more focus on Grey Knights, and Codex: Sisters of Battle does the same...will there be a Codex: Inquisition for more Inq focused armies? or will they just increase the size of both those codexes and split the Inq army options between them to get more sales?

Ha. As if. The Inquisition will always be 'second fiddle' to everything else. Even Jervis thinks that they got 'carried away' when they did the Daemonhunter/Witch Hunter Codices.

Look on the bright side though. You could be someone who owns an AdMech army or a Deathwatch Army - two things that don't even have rules. Wait...

It's really funny though, when you consider just how important the Inquisition is to the entire 40k universe, yet GW hates it so much.

Destrado wrote:
I don't have a GK or Inquisitor army, or SOB, but I think it's a bit odd introducing Grey Knights on their own (they are rarely, if ever, commited to a battlefield the same way SM armies are; they were generally associated with Imperial Guard armies). I think that this is what pissed some people. If not, then I apologize.

Umad? MOST of the time GK can deploy nothing BUT GK because the battlefield is far to daemonic for imperial guardsmen. Unless I am interpretting you wrong and you mean to say space marines are the ones who deploy IG?

Jaon wrote:

Destrado wrote:
I don't have a GK or Inquisitor army, or SOB, but I think it's a bit odd introducing Grey Knights on their own (they are rarely, if ever, commited to a battlefield the same way SM armies are; they were generally associated with Imperial Guard armies). I think that this is what pissed some people. If not, then I apologize.

Umad? MOST of the time GK can deploy nothing BUT GK because the battlefield is far to daemonic for imperial guardsmen. Unless I am interpretting you wrong and you mean to say space marines are the ones who deploy IG?

Exactly. Best to think of them like US Navy SEALs. They do missions that no one else can. With GK its the daemon angle. When its just to hot for anyone else, they go in. Although somewhat related GK and the Inq would have different missions. Inq would be more the seekers, GK more the destroyers. Sure there is overlap, but each is a bit specialized to a certain function.

GW have said in literature that an Inquisitor's authority is second only to the God-Emperor and that an Inquisitor has the authority to order a Space Marine Chapter to act.

Of course it mentions in the same place that no sane Inquisitor would ever order the Astartes to do anything, even though they technically could do.

Still, that leaves half the Ordo Malleus...

close account

ranger1977 wrote:as a non player, but avid painter i am really looking forward to this as it hopefully means plastic GK terminators and marines.
Can the GK's have Assassins ?.

First of, you can absolutely be sure to be getting plastic terminators and grey knights in power armour.

Second, yes, they may take assassins.


This is all pretty much confirmed. The plastic part is 100% confirmed by GW.

Miraclefish wrote:GW have said in literature that an Inquisitor's authority is second only to the God-Emperor and that an Inquisitor has the authority to order a Space Marine Chapter to act.

Of course it mentions in the same place that no sane Inquisitor would ever order the Astartes to do anything, even though they technically could do.

Still, that leaves half the Ordo Malleus...

Actually no.


Inquisitors answer to no one, but the God Emperor.

Space Marines answer to no one, but the God Emperor.

they are equals and an Inquisitor has to approach a Space Marine as an equal.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Mr Hyena wrote:If the Codex: Grey Knights places more focus on Grey Knights, and Codex: Sisters of Battle does the same...will there be a Codex: Inquisition for more Inq focused armies? or will they just increase the size of both those codexes and split the Inq army options between them to get more sales?

Ha. As if. The Inquisition will always be 'second fiddle' to everything else. Even Jervis thinks that they got 'carried away' when they did the Daemonhunter/Witch Hunter Codices.

Look on the bright side though. You could be someone who owns an AdMech army or a Deathwatch Army - two things that don't even have rules. Wait...

The only bright side I see is that Jervis isn't really working on codices anymore, so maybe we WILL get an Inquisition Codex... someday...

Grey Templar wrote:

Miraclefish wrote:GW have said in literature that an Inquisitor's authority is second only to the God-Emperor and that an Inquisitor has the authority to order a Space Marine Chapter to act.

Of course it mentions in the same place that no sane Inquisitor would ever order the Astartes to do anything, even though they technically could do.

Still, that leaves half the Ordo Malleus...

Actually no.


Inquisitors answer to no one, but the God Emperor.

Space Marines answer to no one, but the God Emperor.

they are equals and an Inquisitor has to approach a Space Marine as an equal.

Yep, Space Marine chapters are petitioned into combat by the likes of the Ecclesiarchy, Inquisition, Planetary Governors and others. They are under no authority on who and where to engage save for themselves.

The one exception however are the Grey knights who are the Chamber Militant for the Ordo Malleus. And being such they are under direct control if the Inquisition. Only known radical Inquisitors will be denied the services of the Grey Knights.

Alpharius wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Mr Hyena wrote:If the Codex: Grey Knights places more focus on Grey Knights, and Codex: Sisters of Battle does the same...will there be a Codex: Inquisition for more Inq focused armies? or will they just increase the size of both those codexes and split the Inq army options between them to get more sales?

Ha. As if. The Inquisition will always be 'second fiddle' to everything else. Even Jervis thinks that they got 'carried away' when they did the Daemonhunter/Witch Hunter Codices.

Look on the bright side though. You could be someone who owns an AdMech army or a Deathwatch Army - two things that don't even have rules. Wait...

The only bright side I see is that Jervis isn't really working on codices anymore, so maybe we WILL get an Inquisition Codex... someday...

I dunno. It wasn't just Jervis(I'm not sure why he's being singled out for this, since he actually had nothing to do with those two books but whatever) that felt they got 'carried away' when they did the Daemonhunter and Witchhunter codices. Andy Chambers, Phil Kelly, and Graham McNeill(aka: the people who actually did those two codices) had stated at Games Days they felt that they got carried away.

Jaon wrote:

Umad? MOST of the time GK can deploy nothing BUT GK because the battlefield is far to daemonic for imperial guardsmen. Unless I am interpretting you wrong and you mean to say space marines are the ones who deploy IG?

I meant GK fighting as a SM fBattle Company. The only real time when a full company was deployed was against Agron and that was sort of an oddity, with 100 Terminators taking the field.

I was under the impression that the GK are called upon for help by an Inquisitor, or otherwise only participate in such events as backup to an Imperial Army, as they were far too valuable to use in large-scale offensives.

close account

I dunno. It wasn't just Jervis(I'm not sure why he's being singled out for this, since he actually had nothing to do with those two books but whatever) that felt they got 'carried away' when they did the Daemonhunter and Witchhunter codices. Andy Chambers, Phil Kelly, and Graham McNeill(aka: the people who actually did those two codices) had stated at Games Days they felt that they got carried away.

How did they get carried away? I mean, if the Inquisition is as powerful as it is; it obviously must have its own forces of considerable size (though not enough to field a IG sized army likely.)

yay...grey knights!!!

Mr Hyena wrote:

I dunno. It wasn't just Jervis(I'm not sure why he's being singled out for this, since he actually had nothing to do with those two books but whatever) that felt they got 'carried away' when they did the Daemonhunter and Witchhunter codices. Andy Chambers, Phil Kelly, and Graham McNeill(aka: the people who actually did those two codices) had stated at Games Days they felt that they got carried away.

How did they get carried away? I mean, if the Inquisition is as powerful as it is; it obviously must have its own forces of considerable size (though not enough to field a IG sized army likely.)

Think it’s a reference to retinues. There was an interview where they said they got carried away after the devolvement of the 54mm inquisitor game and tried to add too much wacky stuff.

Well, retinues are very fitting and make sense for Inquisitors. They need skilled allies with them; as too much IG stuff gets boring.

Not everyone wants to play a SM Variant

That’s the thing, the strange things in the retunes is what made the inquisition for me. You need the wackiness in 40k.

Mr Hyena wrote:

I dunno. It wasn't just Jervis(I'm not sure why he's being singled out for this, since he actually had nothing to do with those two books but whatever) that felt they got 'carried away' when they did the Daemonhunter and Witchhunter codices. Andy Chambers, Phil Kelly, and Graham McNeill(aka: the people who actually did those two codices) had stated at Games Days they felt that they got carried away.

How did they get carried away? I mean, if the Inquisition is as powerful as it is; it obviously must have its own forces of considerable size (though not enough to field a IG sized army likely.)

From what I'm remembering:
1)They felt they went way too far in how they did Retinues. They, as mentioned, tried to make things that worked in Inquisitor work here and said damn the consequences.
2) It was a rushjob. They only did Daemonhunters as a "proof of concept" so that Chambers could do Witchhunters and get his Sisters ideas okayed as fast as he could. The end result, however, was that Daemonhunters had some glaring imbalances that were just left sitting there while Chambers and Kelly moved on and did Witchhunters.
3) As above: they were trying to capitalize on the "success" of Inquisitor 54mm. But, again, they didn't really follow through on what they were doing or look at the "big picture". They also tried a smidge too far to emphasize the way the Inquisition worked according to the Eisenhorn novels.

That’s the thing as well I‘ve never felt the Eisenhorn novels represented the inquisition as they were portrayed in 2nd edition. I see them as more deciding the fates of worlds and planetary hierarchy than chasing down one lone heretic.

Mr Hyena wrote:
How did they get carried away? I mean, if the Inquisition is as powerful as it is; it obviously must have its own forces of considerable size (though not enough to field a IG sized army likely.)

I thought it was just an opinion that the Inquisition, while powerful and a cool background element, isn't (generally) considered a true military at the same level as the Space Marines, IG, or even Sisters and Grey Knights.

Still, the Deamonhunters and Witch Hunter Codices deserve credit for Retinues, a cool idea if not used perfectly (I had the idea that this is where FOC-changing stuff should go... So an IG Commander might take a "Adeptus Mechanicus Envoy" retinue character, and get Tank Squadrons as troops, some other weird stuff, and maybe a Command Tank option. Or maybe the Retinue would have a regular Ecclisarchy rep that would unlock priest characters that would be assigned to squads. The 'Default' would probably be a Commissar, but it would allow for interesting tweaks without the disliked 'Special Character-based armies.'

These codices also had Adversaries, a cool idea and a neat way to provide some 'generic' troops. I was painting a block of adversaries (250-500 points I think) that, were I playing more often, I'd probably offer to let opponents use just for the fun of it... If you're playing against Sisters of Battle, wouldn't it be cool if you were offered a couple squads of mutant traitors to use as cannon fodder?

johnstewartjohn wrote:That’s the thing as well I‘ve never felt the Eisenhorn novels represented the inquisition as they were portrayed in 2nd edition. I see them as more deciding the fates of worlds and planetary hierarchy than chasing down one lone heretic.

Background evolves. But even so, the Inquisition has never become a full on "WE'LL TAKE YOU ALL ON!" faction. They always need to call in support, pull strings, etc. Which isn't bad, mind you...but it just limits what can really be done with them.

Also, one thing that is always glossed over:
Eisenhorn was, at the start of 'Xenos' a very 'junior' Inquisitor. He was a full Inquisitor, but not one who'd made his mark enough to be afforded the kinds of respects and accords we see with Coteaz and the like.

Balance wrote:
I thought it was just an opinion that the Inquisition, while powerful and a cool background element, isn't (generally) considered a true military at the same level as the Space Marines, IG, or even Sisters and Grey Knights.

Still, the Deamonhunters and Witch Hunter Codices deserve credit for Retinues, a cool idea if not used perfectly (I had the idea that this is where FOC-changing stuff should go... So an IG Commander might take a "Adeptus Mechanicus Envoy" retinue character, and get Tank Squadrons as troops, some other weird stuff, and maybe a Command Tank option. Or maybe the Retinue would have a regular Ecclisarchy rep that would unlock priest characters that would be assigned to squads. The 'Default' would probably be a Commissar, but it would allow for interesting tweaks without the disliked 'Special Character-based armies.'

These are also very good points. And what pisses me off to no end regarding the way they decided to go for the current Imperial Guard codex.

Yeah I suppose the original fluff doesn’t translate very well to the table top.

I think what they should do really is put focus on lower ranked Inquisitors as being the people who lead Inquisition armies after heretics; with the Lord Inquisitors being focused on a purely Investigation-based role (Information may be too dangerous for younger inquisitors). The Inquisition will still need to field armies to chase down dangerous heretics or to subdue plots before they get out of hand and they will not always be able to get the Ordos Militant; so it still would be important to keep a standing force.

Junior and slightly higher Inquisitors will be able to do the 'tedious' job of hunting down the heretics; the higher Inquisitors would learn the info that they feed to the younger ones as they need.

I expect it will go something like this. We won't see the Inquisition phased out as an army. Its too integral; heck they can only get bigger.

Mr Hyena wrote:I think what they should do really is put focus on lower ranked Inquisitors as being the people who lead Inquisition armies after heretics; with the Lord Inquisitors being focused on a purely Investigation-based role (Information may be too dangerous for younger inquisitors). The Inquisition will still need to field armies to chase down dangerous heretics or to subdue plots before they get out of hand and they will not always be able to get the Ordos Militant; so it still would be important to keep a standing force.

Junior and slightly higher Inquisitors will be able to do the 'tedious' job of hunting down the heretics; the higher Inquisitors would learn the info that they feed to the younger ones as they need.

I expect it will go something like this. We won't see the Inquisition phased out as an army. Its too integral; heck they can only get bigger.

Completely agree. Inquisition is a popular thing in 40k, and if the grey knight codex doesnt expand upon it, I imagine we could even see a stand alone inquisition codex (or, it could, oddly enough, appear in Ssters of Battle)

Mr Hyena wrote:I think what they should do really is put focus on lower ranked Inquisitors as being the people who lead Inquisition armies after heretics; with the Lord Inquisitors being focused on a purely Investigation-based role (Information may be too dangerous for younger inquisitors). The Inquisition will still need to field armies to chase down dangerous heretics or to subdue plots before they get out of hand and they will not always be able to get the Ordos Militant; so it still would be important to keep a standing force.

Junior and slightly higher Inquisitors will be able to do the 'tedious' job of hunting down the heretics; the higher Inquisitors would learn the info that they feed to the younger ones as they need.

This seems weird to me, as leading an army is a 'big deal' and seems like something the more experienced inquisitors would be better at.

Then again, this is 40k where the smartest, toughest fighting force uses their rookies as scouts, a lonely, highly-soecialized job with a ton of responsibility in real-world militaries from what I understand.

Balance wrote:

Mr Hyena wrote:I think what they should do really is put focus on lower ranked Inquisitors as being the people who lead Inquisition armies after heretics; with the Lord Inquisitors being focused on a purely Investigation-based role (Information may be too dangerous for younger inquisitors). The Inquisition will still need to field armies to chase down dangerous heretics or to subdue plots before they get out of hand and they will not always be able to get the Ordos Militant; so it still would be important to keep a standing force.

Junior and slightly higher Inquisitors will be able to do the 'tedious' job of hunting down the heretics; the higher Inquisitors would learn the info that they feed to the younger ones as they need.

This seems weird to me, as leading an army is a 'big deal' and seems like something the more experienced inquisitors would be better at.

Then again, this is 40k where the smartest, toughest fighting force uses their rookies as scouts, a lonely, highly-soecialized job with a ton of responsibility in real-world militaries from what I understand.

"Rookie"; a term recently used to define a person who is one of the toughest men ever known, already better than some veterans of imperial guardsmen.

Space marines employ scouts because power armour isnt very stealthy.

Balance wrote:

Mr Hyena wrote:I think what they should do really is put focus on lower ranked Inquisitors as being the people who lead Inquisition armies after heretics; with the Lord Inquisitors being focused on a purely Investigation-based role (Information may be too dangerous for younger inquisitors). The Inquisition will still need to field armies to chase down dangerous heretics or to subdue plots before they get out of hand and they will not always be able to get the Ordos Militant; so it still would be important to keep a standing force.

Junior and slightly higher Inquisitors will be able to do the 'tedious' job of hunting down the heretics; the higher Inquisitors would learn the info that they feed to the younger ones as they need.

This seems weird to me, as leading an army is a 'big deal' and seems like something the more experienced inquisitors would be better at.

Then again, this is 40k where the smartest, toughest fighting force uses their rookies as scouts, a lonely, highly-soecialized job with a ton of responsibility in real-world militaries from what I understand.

Its actually more to do with classified information. Stuff kept from lesser ranked individuals. The big stuff would probably only be known to the higher ranking Inquisitors; the ones with the contacts and such to follow up on this. Lesser inquisitors probably haven't gathered a sufficient retinue or formed contact networks to properly investigate something like, say, a possible Alpha Legion splinter cell in a world dangerously close to Terra. Of course, theres nothing to stop an Inquisitor of this level from doing something like investigating supposed Chaos artifacts that have been found or dealing with a small outbreak of cultists.

I'd just expect lower ranked Inquisitors to deal with the most combat situations unless it requires the attention of the Ordo Militant too. Of course this is all conjecture but its my opinion really on how things should be done to make the Inquisition a more plausible army.

So if they are being released in April, how long until we get a really good idea of what units are in, what they do, pts costs etc.?

Ala the Space Wolf and Blood Angel codices, where they were basically spoiled X weeks before the actual release? (and just how long was X time?

they normally do an "incoming!" about 3 months before hand. I didn't pay attention to the release of SW & BA.
april 16th is my guess for when GK models come out.

shrike wrote:they normally do an "incoming!" about 3 months before hand. I didn't pay attention to the release of SW & BA.
april 16th is my guess for when GK models come out.

Is that a joke or ?

Their codex is released on april the 1st is it not (April fools day...) ?

THEY SHALL BE MY HAMMER.

Man I am excited. They have only been working on it for ten years.

Tacobake wrote:THEY SHALL BE MY HAMMER.

Man I am excited. They have only been working on it for ten years.

The models, maybe.

The rules? 6 months tops

I kid!

Jaon wrote:

shrike wrote:they normally do an "incoming!" about 3 months before hand. I didn't pay attention to the release of SW & BA.
april 16th is my guess for when GK models come out.

Is that a joke or ?

Their codex is released on april the 1st is it not (April fools day...) ?

So it's confirmed? 1st april?
Cool!

Balance wrote:

Mr Hyena wrote:
How did they get carried away? I mean, if the Inquisition is as powerful as it is; it obviously must have its own forces of considerable size (though not enough to field a IG sized army likely.)

These codices also had Adversaries, a cool idea and a neat way to provide some 'generic' troops. I was painting a block of adversaries (250-500 points I think) that, were I playing more often, I'd probably offer to let opponents use just for the fun of it... If you're playing against Sisters of Battle, wouldn't it be cool if you were offered a couple squads of mutant traitors to use as cannon fodder?

"I am sorry, Cannoness. These beings are under the protection of Shas'El Fal'Shia Hana for The Greater Good, and we can not allow your short sightedness to interfere. They will defend themselves if necessary, and so shall we. You can see that our technological and philosophical might exceeds your own. Will you not join us as well, for the Greater Good of all beings?"
-Last words of Por'ui Fal'Shia Ko'lash Ni to Cannoness Alexandrea del'Mossa. Glass Mines Incident, 946 M41

Nagashek wrote:

Balance wrote:

Mr Hyena wrote:
How did they get carried away? I mean, if the Inquisition is as powerful as it is; it obviously must have its own forces of considerable size (though not enough to field a IG sized army likely.)

These codices also had Adversaries, a cool idea and a neat way to provide some 'generic' troops. I was painting a block of adversaries (250-500 points I think) that, were I playing more often, I'd probably offer to let opponents use just for the fun of it... If you're playing against Sisters of Battle, wouldn't it be cool if you were offered a couple squads of mutant traitors to use as cannon fodder?

"I am sorry, Cannoness. These beings are under the protection of Shas'El Fal'Shia Hana for The Greater Good, and we can not allow your short sightedness to interfere. They will defend themselves if necessary, and so shall we. You can see that our technological and philosophical might exceeds your own. Will you not join us as well, for the Greater Good of all beings?"
-Last words of Por'ui Fal'Shia Ko'lash Ni to Cannoness Alexandrea del'Mossa. Glass Mines Incident, 946 M41

"Fire! Fire! Fire!"
-Canonness

Mad4Minis wrote:

Destrado wrote:
It does bode badly for some who thought this release was Codex: Inquisition/Ordo Malleus.

In all fairness...it has been pretty well known that it would be Codex:Grey Knights for a while now. That should make it pretty obvious who was going to be focused on. Sure, it sucks for Inq/OM players, but at least theyve had some warning and didnt find out when the book was released.

It also shouldnt be a surprise. Think about it, GW had a choice...focus the codex on a group that very few people play and would likely draw in few new players...OR...focus on their bread and butter, Space Marines. Add in the fact that the current metal GK are widely praised as some of GWs best work and new versions would likely get a huge amount of attention...it was almost a given GK would win out over Inq.

Another point to note...GW invalidates old armies on purpose. Making a book that allows you to use all the minis you already own doesnt make them nearly as much money as releasing a book that causes you to have to buy a bunch more.

Its been their MO for a good long time. If you really dont like it, stop playing their games and buying their products. Contrary to what they would have you believe there are other games out there, and some are pretty good.

The other big issue is that Codexaemonhunters was a failure,from a sales standpoint. GW had to take a step back and completely retool it to make it a viable army. What they decided was that there were more people that thought a GK army was cool than people who thought an =I= army was cool. Realistically,DH was almost like one of those campaign books like Armaggeddon and EoT that they came out with in regards to it's army structure. Here's rules for a GK army,an =I= army,a mish-mash of the two,=I= with IG,and =I= with normal SM's. In the Armaggeddon book,BT's took off and got their own codex. Salamanders didn't,and got lumped back in with the SM 'dex. Nothing out of EoT sold well enough to warrant continued support. From a buisness standpoint,GW feels it can sell more models if they do a GK focused codex than if they do an =I= codex or another hodge podge book,so that's the direction they're going.

Like you said,GW phases stuff in and out all the time. Did my buddy's SW army get "invalidated" because he usually fielded a Leman Russ Exterminator and it got dropped from their latest codex? Of course not. I feel for anybody that truly has their army "squatted",but that really isn't the case here. Either hardcore =I= players care enough about their army to set aside their dislike of SC's and/or "Counts As" to play their army or they don't. Most 40k players don't mind using SC's or Counts As models,so GW probably thought that was a reasonable enough compromise.

Whatever1 wrote:The other big issue is that Codexaemonhunters was a failure,from a sales standpoint. GW had to take a step back and completely retool it to make it a viable army. What they decided was that there were more people that thought a GK army was cool than people who thought an =I= army was cool.

Then they are fools. It doesn't take a genius to work out an underpowered army with zero plastic support is going to sell poorly.

agreed. Making a underpowered all-metal army with limited fluff and virually nothing vs high-armour tanks=not going to sell.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

BrookM wrote:A confirmation is fine and dandy, but a preview is always nice. Who is writing it by the way?

Let's hope it's Matt Ward.

If us Inquisitorial players have to lose our armies, the least we can get is payback via a Wardish nonsense Codex.

\

Feth that man, I hope Matt Ward gets no where near the Grey Knights. Get someone like Robin Cruddace (so far a competent author of the Imperial Guard codex) or Ben Counter (the author of the Grey Knight books), just as long as its not Matt Ward. I'd perfer what few of the Knights I have to not have Rowboat Girlyman as their "spiritual liege". In all seriousness though, I'm glad the Knights are finally getting their dex because this puts an end to rumors that have been running rampant for years, and others as well:
1. No codex: Inquisition :(, but at least this means the sisters will get their own dex , and if GW is clever they "could" pick up on the popularity of Deathwatch from FFG and release a dex for them.

2. This at least means that first new dex of the year is confirmed. It's a marine dex (technicaly), so if the popularized pattern persists, next dex is likely to be NOT MARINES (I personaly hope its crons so that my local cron player will kinda stay in the loop). Really it SHOULD be crons, cuz they now have the oldest dex right before sisters, tau, and eldar (as far as NOT MARINES).

Inquisitor N wrote:Get someone like Robin Cruddace (so far a competent author of the Imperial Guard codex)

...and incompetent author of the Tyranids codex. But we're pretty sure it's going to be him.

or Ben Counter (the author of the Grey Knight books)

Counter might be a fine writer, but from all I've heard he doesn't "get" Grey Knights (or SoB for that matter).

1. No codex: Inquisition :(, but at least this means the sisters will get their own dex , and if GW is clever they "could" pick up on the popularity of Deathwatch from FFG and release a dex for them.

They've had a hard enough time giving the Sisters a proper fluff treatment as is, without shoving them in with the Grey Knights. As for Deathwatch, they're not much different to any other Space Marine. Just give them a web article with rules for Ordo Xenos Inquisitors (that let you take Sternguard squads as troops) and you're pretty much done.

AlexHolker wrote:As for Deathwatch, they're not much different to any other Space Marine. Just give them a web article with rules for Ordo Xenos Inquisitors (that let you take Sternguard squads as troops) and you're pretty much done.

actually, some dakkaites have started movements to make a DW fandex:
http://wh40k.tk/

AlexHolker wrote:
They've had a hard enough time giving the Sisters a proper fluff treatment as is, without shoving them in with the Grey Knights. As for Deathwatch, they're not much different to any other Space Marine. Just give them a web article with rules for Ordo Xenos Inquisitors (that let you take Sternguard squads as troops) and you're pretty much done.

DW have a lot more options than Sternguard and other different ammo types.
HB with suspenders and hellfire ammo, power weapons, fists lightening claws etc.
Sternguard and Vanguard for that matter serve a specific role. DW are able to do both.

Let alone have an apothecary, librarian, jet pack assault marine, and devastator in one squad...

tldr wrote:

Let alone have an apothecary, librarian, jet pack assault marine, and devastator in one squad...

Just the rest of their goodness

Hey in an attempt to bring this tread back to topic:

If I were to be starting a Grey Knights army, and wanted to prepare my purchases so I can get the essential plastic kits when they come out, and not worry about buying things availiable now... what kits availiable now should I pick up? Razorback kits? Rhinos? Drop pods?

Who knows.

They may or may not have options for trasnports (which is how they should be, different and unique...) Going to have to wait for more information really :/

Too much speculation right now.

I would wait on buying Transports.

Stockpile $$... THats what I'm doing.

Miraclefish wrote:GW have said in literature that an Inquisitor's authority is second only to the God-Emperor and that an Inquisitor has the authority to order a Space Marine Chapter to act.

Of course it mentions in the same place that no sane Inquisitor would ever order the Astartes to do anything, even though they technically could do.

Still, that leaves half the Ordo Malleus...

literature also said that chapters only ow do to the god-empere and no outher man even inq dosn't have the power to order them. they can make there life harder. but blood angels have refusede to give gene seeds to the bank ans still nothing has been don.

There really isn't a need for TWO of these threads, so...

Please go here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/334488.page

This one's done!