puma713 wrote:Right. Instead, they said the exact opposite. But. . . that's okay? We should just accept it because, "big companies lie all the time"?
No. I would't say "accept it". But I wouldn't use "they said" when we all know that the truth usually is pretty far from what a company says in a press release about their new product. Especially Games Workshop...
Some posters in this thread act kinda surprised when the press release isn't holding up to it's promises. Might be just me having to read through a ton of press releases & corporate publications and getting used to it / getting bitter? I wouldn't rule out the latter tbh
So its okay to lie in a press release now? Someone should tell Sony that. To say a company shouldn't be held accountable to what they publish is pretty silly imo
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bushido wrote:I don't get it. People are upset because a product can't possibly live up to its hype? Do you watch a movie trailer and think it's a perfect representation of the quality and plot of the film? Yours must be a wonderful, magical world to live in.
It's been this way since there were guys selling their "Cure-Alls" from the back of their covered wagons as they traveled from town to town. A company isn't going to say, "Buy our product! It's pretty average!"
blasto0341 wrote:Holy crap people the Finecast is not released yet hahaha. The mini in the pic could be from a pile the quality control set aside as "not good" and someone got ahold of one. How else are these people getting finecast so early??
Ever been to a video game store with the back room door open? You will seen boxes upon boxes of new games with a labeled sticker saying do not sell until said mm/dd/yyyy
As for finecast I want to get my hands on some wracks for my DE but im hesitant over how flimsy they could be i must say im not a cold handed man, im pray the heat from my fingers in a hot room wont warp these things as it is almost summer. Well here's hoping right
No it's not ok to "lie". But it sure is OK in the corporate world to exaggerate as much as you can and put your new product in the best light possible.
I put "lie" in quotationmarks in my original post in order for you guys not to take it literaly. Apparently it didn't get through. I'm sorry for that and will make sure to flag it better next time.
I think that we have seen this type of thing before.
It was called Windows Vista!
We were promised the world...ie faster, better, better looking, and when the final product didn't live up to the hype.
The Megacorp that is Microsoft, had to fix/re-image the product. I think I see this happening to the finecast stuff.
pixelpusher wrote:No it's not ok to "lie". But it sure is OK in the corporate world to exaggerate as much as you can and put your new product in the best light possible.
I put "lie" in quotationmarks in my original post in order for you guys not to take it literaly. Apparently it didn't get through. I'm sorry for that and will make sure to flag it better next time.
Is it OK for consumers to say, "Stop lying to us and feth off, GW."?
But if my only two choices are being a cynic or foaming at the mouth because big-bad-GW has sacrificed my first-born on the altar of profit margins... I think I'll be a cynic.
But if my only two choices are being a cynic or foaming at the mouth because big-bad-GW has sacrificed my first-born on the altar of profit margins... I think I'll be a cynic.
Yes, because those are the only two options, and that latter sentiment accurately characterizes the sentiments everyone here who is not a cynic has expressed.
But if my only two choices are being a cynic or foaming at the mouth because big-bad-GW has sacrificed my first-born on the altar of profit margins... I think I'll be a cynic.
No foaming at he mouth here, just trying cut through the PR spin and find out the real skinny on finecast
I heated the staff with my girlfriend's blowdryer. It only took ten seconds for the staff to go from flexable to cooked spagetti soft. The staff went limp as soon as i picked off the desk to move to a plate. This requires extreme care. The resin stuff got mushy real quick. Weird. placed in freezer for 5 minutes. Staff is now straight. Foreworld resin will fight like a bastard to get soft, and even then it is brittle when bent. Not a good sign.
bushido wrote:I don't get it. People are upset because a product can't possibly live up to its hype? Do you watch a movie trailer and think it's a perfect representation of the quality and plot of the film? Yours must be a wonderful, magical world to live in.
It's been this way since there were guys selling their "Cure-Alls" from the back of their covered wagons as they traveled from town to town. A company isn't going to say, "Buy our product! It's pretty average!"
I chuckle at those who say they rushed out and ordered 342039423 pieces of an untested product...sight unseen. Give it a little time for them to work out the kinks. Otherwise, caveat emptor.
People are upset because not only does finecast cost more, but it has more flash, it has MISCASTS EVERYWHERE.
Sarius wrote:About whoever said they probably "cherry-picked" the best model for their finecast articles on the website,.. anyone else notice this?
A rather big hole... I've got a skulltaker next to me (metal) and it's meant to be solid...
I'm kinda worried about this new material.
Is the detail on this model otherwise better, worse, or about the same, if you have one? Resin photographs better, but I wonder what the difference actually is, if any.
Honestly, it's about the same... The "Finecast" ones will be about 1/3rd of a milimetre bigger in all aspects. The flames in the hand and the teeth on his stomache-plate area look a TINY bit better in the photograph but I don't think it's worth the other problems.
Then again, metal models chip and break a lot easier, and definately in terms of assembly it's far easier with these new ones.
If you're in it for gaming, it's probably an okay move, I rarely see fully-painted miniatures at my store.
Yet if you're a decent painter, or someone who really prides themselves in their mini's and not just their "army" as a whole... you're probably not going to like the change. Unless you're patient and find the best possible mould results for the models you're after.
Actually, I think you might come up a winner in a situation where most people don't paint. If they don't prime either, these look not too bad as-is vs bare metal or black primed plastic.
Ouze wrote:Actually, I think you might come up a winner in a situation where most people don't paint. If they don't prime either, these look not too bad as-is vs bare metal or black primed plastic.
If true I think it's great that GW are advancing the HHHobby by providing less reason to paint an army.
A much better idea that multi-colour plastic models.
I think most of you guys need to buy some damn tissues, take a shower to cool off and grow the feth up. If the finecast line fails so what, HOPEFULLY GW learns its lesson and wont screw up so badly next time. I doubt itll go that far though. They have done awesome on other ventuers. APOC was a gamble for them, and we simply cant get enough of the giant tanks/stompas/titans and every army redue they have done lately has been simply fantastic looking. Who wants to really try and argue that the DE resculpts are anything but awesome? Go ahead and try, Ill mail you a fist in the mouth for trying to look cool on da interwebz.
i think someone is ignorant and needs a history lesson on GW. Apoc was NOT much of a gamble for them. Folks, even at events, we're playing large scale gams of GW with lots of tanks and titans long before Apoc came about. They just now benefit from it.
I just can't help but feel that this is a blatant attempt by GW to massively cut their manufacturing costs and pass it off as a huge leap in quality instead.
I predict it won't be long before 'finecast' becomes the norm and metal GW figures disappear.
How about an Emperor's Champion that has a miscast Iron Cross medallion right on his chest? The one that was the very first one GW showed us in Monday's blog post introudcing Finecast?
Or an Autarch with several bubbles the break the shape of things like gems and feathers? From that same post?
Or the Blood Knight with a nice bubble in his gorget? Right in that post, too.
Or the horse for the mounted Gandalf that has had detail sanded right out? Same post.
Or the Skulltaker who has bubbles obliterating the sharp points on on his shoulder armor? The one GW is using to showcase how wonderful these are to work with in today's blog post.
This is what really concerns me. A couple of duff miniatures turning up from unknown sources is not a good sign, but doesn't mean the sky is falling. But the fact that GW's own showcase miniatures, presumably cherry-picked to be shining examples of the very fine quality on offer, are so demonstrably flawed, with bits of detail missing or mishaped due to air bubbles and miscasts... well that seems to show that 'finecast' is inherently bad quality.
Also, I hate the sound of how soft and bendy they are. The latest What's New Today contains an image showing Skulltaker's sword being bent almost double, seemingly with little effort. You have to click on one of the other images to see it, it's supposed to demonstrate how durable these models will be. It just made me cringe, it's gonna feel like dealing with cheap soft rubbery plastic toys. Finecost models will be easy to accidently bend after being painted, and then the paint's gonna crack. Pieces cut in two will probably curl at the ends (this happens sometimes with Forgeworld resin) and parts that come out of the blister already crooked (which I get a lot, most recently the DE Archon's sword) are going to be difficult to fix.
I will, as ever, wait and see. But I can't really see myself parting with money like this for products like these.
Kanluwen wrote:
I wouldn't accept subpar manufacturing from a car company because subpar automobiles can cause accidents which kill people and I wouldn't accept it from a local dining establishment because there's standards that have to be upheld.
So you think that airbubled, bended, something that need a lots of additional work (in comparison to metal) - are standarts for more superior product (again in comparison to metal)?
You logic or standarts are highly flawed...
Tailgunner wrote:Unlike, say, HBMC, I am prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt...
While I don't think GW is deserving of any benefits, 'the doubt' or otherwise, I did say, in the same post:
"... I agree that judging an entire line from from some pictures of four different products is a bad start..."
That's what some people might call a 'wait and see' attitude.
I know it's fun - and easier - for you, Tailgunner, to immediately assume that I go straight for the jugular and never even try to see the (potential) good in anything, but please don't misrepresent me.
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Kanluwen wrote:I'm not saying it's a conspiracy, but I'm saying it's dang fishy.
So not only does your pathological need to defend GW against any and all criticism see you here, once again in the trenches, fighting bitterly against anyone who would DARE to question the quality of Finecost - but now you're even going so far as to insinuate that the guy who did the original review did so with the express purpose of defaming/mocking/criticising GW?
Samus666 wrote: Finecost models will be easy to accidently bend after being painted, and then the paint's gonna crack.
While that may turn out to be true, I also might not. Zuzzy mats painted in acrylics roll up and fold in half without cracking. I own one and abuse the hell out of it, and the paint hasn't cracked or flaked off.
Of course, I didn't prime my mat. So, we'll see.
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H.B.M.C. wrote:So not only does your pathological need to defend GW against any and all criticism see you here, once again in the trenches, fighting bitterly against anyone who would DARE to question the quality of Finecost - but now you're even going so far as to insinuate that the guy who did the original review did so with the express purpose of defaming/mocking/criticising GW?
I think it's pretty clear and both sides were considered equally and fairly. When this guy posted them, he had obviously carefully picked out the worst looking miniature so he could make GWS look bad, and when GWS posted them up on the site, they just closed their eyes and randomly fished in the barrel for whatever they got, and it just so happened they were all flawless (because they all all, really - that one that was posted that showed a hole in in was obviously photoshopped by some hacker who jacked into the GWS mainframe and posted it there to embarrass them).
GWS is obviously going to paint their products in the best light possible, and the ingrates they sell them to will always make them look terrible because, well, ungrateful whiners are going to whine. I don't see why you find this confusing.
I heated the staff with my girlfriend's blowdryer. It only took ten seconds for the staff to go from flexable to cooked spagetti soft. The staff went limp as soon as i picked off the desk to move to a plate. This requires extreme care. The resin stuff got mushy real quick. Weird. placed in freezer for 5 minutes. Staff is now straight. Foreworld resin will fight like a bastard to get soft, and even then it is brittle when bent. Not a good sign.
Weird. Thats not what he said orginally.
Even still, to make a staff/weapon straight , I have to melt it down then freeze it so its straight? I usually dislike having to bend metal back in place, but at least i can do that without having to melt it down and then freeze it. We'll see how the models looks when they go into big production and we all start collecting and giving our own reviews.
So wait, if I bought a Finecost product and was disappointed with the quality (because I ended up with a gak model like these other guys did), then I'm just being "ungrateful"?
Sidstyler wrote:So wait, if I bought a Finecost product and was disappointed with the quality (because I ended up with a gak model like these other guys did), then I'm just being "ungrateful"?
No, you'd also being lying, because there is no way you got an awesome finecast model with any flaws in it. It's got fine right in the name, for pete's sakes.
I'll say this just now, especially to GW white knights.
This is a GIANT and arrogant step taken by GW. If they want to convince anyone to accept the price increase , and the supposed "upgraded material" you bet they'll do as much as they can to make sure their first release will go as smoothly as they can.
Why are people saying they'll get better as time goes on? Umm , GW isnt new , they certainly have FW for a long time. And they certainly have done enough tests to be confident enough to release this product line.
So far , no one can spot a difference in detail between the 2 materials , remember , metal reacts different to light and photography which gives the illusion they are more rounded than resin. This is NOT true , the edge of the light they catch just diffuses the light making it look more rounded aka less detailed.
"Less preparation" , not true. The time you spend getting rid of the flashes , filling in the bubbles , bend back the warped resins , im sure its more time consuming than just filling what little flash metal has. Infact , metal miniatures almost have no flash AT ALL. the lines most of the time are misaligned parts of the 2 sides.
Pricing: They cost more than metal thats for sure. But how about their durability and worth? Metal can stand up to lots of beating, and can be stripped down easily by almost any chemicals. With resin you have to be more careful , not to mention while scrubbing them.
Fine cast is a gimic. The whole GW's sale strategy now is tailored towards compulsive buys. Why?
because.
compulsive buys can over come reasoning and logic. Aslong as something is hot , people will flock to it. Thats why GW stopped previews, less time for people to come to their senses / debate / criticize about the product.
Gimic , again, claiming their product to be superior , no dout justifying the expensive Fine Cast line , while attempting to give illusion that GW is a company with surperior products.
Here's my question. Suppose I get q mini like the one in the photo above or with worse holes but not miscast as in half a head missing or a "melted" sword blade. Will GW replace the mini for me ?
shinzuer wrote:Here's my question. Suppose I get q mini like the one in the photo above or with worse holes but not miscast as in half a head missing or a "melted" sword blade. Will GW replace the mini for me ?
No, according to a recent assinine post you are an ingrate and an ungrateful whiner.
I would just like to say that Miscast will revolusionise Customer Services in the Hobby Industry.
Vast quantities of scrap plastic resin will not cause environmental harm as it will not break down until the year 41,000. Nottingham City Council have allocated a new landfill site specifically for our use to be paid for by council taxes, and in no way has anything to do with the 2012 Olympics 20.12% price rise on all GW products to celebrate this great sporting event.
If GW have QC problems that will add a big chunk to the costs if lots of miscasts need replacing. GW will not wish to disappoint the Shareholders.* Guess who will be coughing up the cash for the wonderful customer care returns service if the worst case scenario does become reality?
* I used to think shareholders were her bras until Sonny put me to the wise.
I just picked up a Finecast Hive Tyrant and a Zoanthrope. I guess my FLGS did not get the memo about the release date. All I can tell you is that these are just lovely! Great details on both, zero flashing on the Zoanthrope, some minor mould lines. I was worried about the boxed Tyrant, since I could not see inside, but it is just fine. Just minor flashing around the very small spikes, all other pieces flash free. All the sprues are straight. I could not see any bubbles or imperfections. I will take a closer look later tonight when I get home. I am so happy with these.
Kanluwen wrote:
I wouldn't accept subpar manufacturing from a car company because subpar automobiles can cause accidents which kill people and I wouldn't accept it from a local dining establishment because there's standards that have to be upheld.
So you think that airbubbled, bended, something that need a lots of additional work (in comparison to metal) - are standards for more superior product (again in comparison to metal)?
You logic or standards are highly flawed...
I'm not saying that airbubbles are acceptable. But bends are a ridiculous thing for people to whine about considering how easy they are to fix. The airbubbles in the photograph that GW posted were practically non-existent.
They're the kinds of stuff that you can fix with simply running a bit of Mr. Surfacer, Cyanoacrylate superglue with gap filling properties or Squadron Putty onto it.
And frankly: anyone who says that resin needs "a lot of additional work (in comparison to metal)" is full of gak. I'm not meaning "oh you're full of it you silly goose!", I mean you're so freaking full of it it's leaking out your ears.
Metal is stupidly annoying to work with and anyone who says it's a breeze is lying through their teeth.
H.B.M.C. wrote:So not only does your pathological need to defend GW against any and all criticism see you here, once again in the trenches, fighting bitterly against anyone who would DARE to question the quality of Finecost - but now you're even going so far as to insinuate that the guy who did the original review did so with the express purpose of defaming/mocking/criticising GW?
Yes, because that's so unbelievable in the week after they practically pimpslapped the gamer population. And considering the fact that the guy's blister had no sales tag on it, and he posted it almost three days ago when the shipments were supposed to start arriving and it starts to not actually seem too ridiculous.
Maybe I just need to cut back on working with Squadron putty. That Toluene will get to your head.
What fantasy land do you live in Kan? Really???
One where I prefer to remain as optimistic as possible and haven't been completely screwed over by the company that is responsible for a hobby I've sunk most of my time into.
It's kind of nice. And involves a lot of booze.
Ouze wrote:I think it's pretty clear and both sides were considered equally and fairly. When this guy posted them, he had obviously carefully picked out the worst looking miniature so he could make GWS look bad, and when GWS posted them up on the site, they just closed their eyes and randomly fished in the barrel for whatever they got, and it just so happened they were all flawless (because they all all, really - that one that was posted that showed a hole in in was obviously photoshopped by some hacker who jacked into the GWS mainframe and posted it there to embarrass them).
I had to actually look for the hole you're talking about. Are you sure it's supposed to be solid on the metal?
I will agree though that of course GW was looking for the best sculpts possible. But I'd prefer to remain optimistic and put it down to some jerks on the internet trying to stir up shenanigans.
GWS is obviously going to paint their products in the best light possible, and the ingrates they sell them to will always make them look terrible because, well, ungrateful whiners are going to whine. I don't see why you find this confusing.
I didn't say ingrates or ungrateful whiners. Like I said though something just seems really off about this.
thebadabwar wrote:I just picked up a Finecast Hive Tyrant and a Zoanthrope. I guess my FLGS did not get the memo about the release date. All I can tell you is that these are just lovely! Great details on both, zero flashing on the Zoanthrope, some minor mould lines. I was worried about the boxed Tyrant, since I could not see inside, but it is just fine. Just minor flashing around the very small spikes, all other pieces flash free. All the sprues are straight. I could not see any bubbles or imperfections. I will take a closer look later tonight when I get home. I am so happy with these.
Another person with two posts extolling the virtues of Finecost. This keeps happening.
I don't want to scream 'plant' yet... but it is weird.
Kanluwen wrote:, because that's so unbelievable in the week after they practically pimpslapped the gamer population. And considering the fact that the guy's blister had no sales tag on it, and he posted it almost three days ago when the shipments were supposed to start arriving and it starts to not actually seem too ridiculous.
You are mad. The review is a positive review.
That said, it's not 100% positive though - it's a review that involves a level of criticism - and this must be why you're making accusations of the OP, because GW is 100% infallible in your eyes and can not and should not be criticised ever.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Another person with two posts extolling the virtues of Finecost. This keeps happening.
I don't want to scream 'plant' yet... but it is weird.
I will agree with you on that.
Just like someone with 22 posts somehow being the first US member to post photos of Finecast stuff, who miraculously missed the stupidly deformed storm bolter in a clear package on the biggest sprue in the package.
thebadabwar wrote:I just picked up a Finecast Hive Tyrant and a Zoanthrope. I guess my FLGS did not get the memo about the release date. All I can tell you is that these are just lovely! Great details on both, zero flashing on the Zoanthrope, some minor mould lines. I was worried about the boxed Tyrant, since I could not see inside, but it is just fine. Just minor flashing around the very small spikes, all other pieces flash free. All the sprues are straight. I could not see any bubbles or imperfections. I will take a closer look later tonight when I get home. I am so happy with these.
Update:
There is a 1mm mould shift on the sprue with the Tyrant’s head and all those pieces are messed up, especially the head. ARGH!!! We’ll see if customer service is open tomorrow and what their response will be. The Zoanthrope is perfect on all accounts.
thebadabwar wrote:I just picked up a Finecast Hive Tyrant and a Zoanthrope. I guess my FLGS did not get the memo about the release date. All I can tell you is that these are just lovely! Great details on both, zero flashing on the Zoanthrope, some minor mould lines. I was worried about the boxed Tyrant, since I could not see inside, but it is just fine. Just minor flashing around the very small spikes, all other pieces flash free. All the sprues are straight. I could not see any bubbles or imperfections. I will take a closer look later tonight when I get home. I am so happy with these.
Update:
There is a 1mm mould shift on the sprue with the Tyrant’s head and all those pieces are messed up, especially the head. ARGH!!! We’ll see if customer service is open tomorrow and what their response will be. The Zoanthrope is perfect on all accounts.
Post some pics if you can, I know I'd be interested in looking at them
Kanluwen wrote:Just like someone with 22 posts somehow being the first US member to post photos of Finecast stuff, who miraculously missed the stupidly deformed storm bolter in a clear package on the biggest sprue in the package.
People don't see what they're not looking for Kan. It's not reasonable to expect such a miscast, so you wouldn't notice it just in passing. What's far more likely is that the OP got the clamshell and immediately opened it to see what it was like rather than scouring the racks to find one that was horribly miscast.
Saldiven wrote:
. . . what will happen if you leave your carry case full of minis in your car on a hot summer's day?
That tends to be a bad idea in general. I've seen plastic models get warped from being left in cars during hot summer days, not to mention paint chips off/rubs off metal more easily if it's been left in the heat for too long.
I'm glad someone pointed this out. I've had a plastic base that slipped out of a box get warped in a few hours on a summer day in a car. No one suggested that there should be no plastic models because of this, did they?
Also, as I understand most resin, the resin softens when heated, and then hardens into the new shape when cooled. That is not a single one-time change. If you forget a resin model in the car (UNLIKE A PLASTIC ONE), then you can heat the model again, move it back into the proper shape, and cool it down. Fixed.
I'm not a total defender of this new resin, but the fact that you CAN find bad casts doesn't tell you how many bad casts there are.
I'm just skeptical about the new material. I'll gladly buy it if it corresponds to the quality I'm used to getting, but the prospect of possibly having more trouble than I used to with metal miniatures bugs me.
Obviously the reviews we've had so far do not constitute enough sample for us to say outright how bad the casting quality for Finecast, but they do show some problems that could possibly stop me from buying if they aren't properly sorted out.
Looking at things my way, I don't have an FLGS or any official stores around. I have to buy from online sites, and I'm not too keen on having to wait some more for a miniature that was badly cast. What if I get another miscast? That's just some of the stuff worrying me.
puma713 wrote:
What's more alarming to me is that I have to inspect a new product for miscasts anyway. What about items that aren't blisters? How would one go about making sure they're not buying a defective product? I, as a consumer, should not be worried about the new product I'm going to buy before I've even bought it.
While I agree that this is in particular is probably a storm in a teacup, it doesn't make it any less alarming or frustrating.
Seriously? You, as a consumer, should not have to inspect a product for flaws?
I'm all for a quality product. I am willing to believe that Finecast may be such, or may not be such. It may be the case that Finecast has too many bad castings, or that GW will not replace bad castings as they have in the past. Those would all be valid things to complain about.
But to argue that as a consumer, you deserve companies able to produce items with ZERO flaws? Ridiculous. As a consumer, you should recognize that you might buy something that is defective, even if it comes in a case. You might buy a busted LCD TV. You might get a car with a bad sensor or computer. You might order some shoes off the internet and they are the wrong size. It happens all the time in every industry. The company should replace it. The company should minimize those occurreces.
But to argue that GW, as a company, should be able to produce 100% perfect models every single time (so you don't have to inspect them for miscasts) is totally unrealistic. They have NEVER produced models which were always 100% perfect. Why should they be able to do so in resin?
I am sure there is nothing suspect about someone who orders 20 Finecast models before seeing a single one.
Very trusting of GW unlike certain cynical Dakkanauts I could name.
Yes Chibi I am looking at you!
Who sir? me sir?
Ah if only I had sufficient rhino to consider such an act, why all the useful stuff I could do with such tin.
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But to argue that GW, as a company, should be able to produce 100% perfect models every single time (so you don't have to inspect them for miscasts) is totally unrealistic. They have NEVER produced models which were always 100% perfect. Why should they be able to do so in resin?
H.B.M.C. wrote:Another person with two posts extolling the virtues of Finecost. This keeps happening.
I don't want to scream 'plant' yet... but it is weird.
I will agree with you on that.
Just like someone with 22 posts somehow being the first US member to post photos of Finecast stuff, who miraculously missed the stupidly deformed storm bolter in a clear package on the biggest sprue in the package.
Perhaps because nobody ever actually takes a storm bolter on that unit in game? I honestly didn't even know the kit came with one until now.
1. The OP went out of his way to find a faulty demo piece specifically so he could show the world how terrible Finecost is... and then wrote a generally positive review.
2. The OP got a standard off-the-shelf model early and did a positive review.
puma713 wrote:
What's more alarming to me is that I have to inspect a new product for miscasts anyway. What about items that aren't blisters? How would one go about making sure they're not buying a defective product? I, as a consumer, should not be worried about the new product I'm going to buy before I've even bought it.
While I agree that this is in particular is probably a storm in a teacup, it doesn't make it any less alarming or frustrating.
Seriously? You, as a consumer, should not have to inspect a product for flaws?
I guess I should've been more specific. Flaws are one thing. Too much flash, a metal staff bent a bit, a little warping on the sprue, etc - those are forgiveable and can be remedied fairly quickly. But to have to inspect an item because half of a storm bolter is missing? Having to inspect an item that I may have to heat up with a blowdryer, then freeze again? They can do better than that and to say that they can't because they're not perfect is somehow justifying their poor quality control.
puma713 wrote:
What's more alarming to me is that I have to inspect a new product for miscasts anyway. What about items that aren't blisters? How would one go about making sure they're not buying a defective product? I, as a consumer, should not be worried about the new product I'm going to buy before I've even bought it.
While I agree that this is in particular is probably a storm in a teacup, it doesn't make it any less alarming or frustrating.
Seriously? You, as a consumer, should not have to inspect a product for flaws?
I guess I should've been more specific. Flaws are one thing. Too much flash, a staff bent a bit, a little warping on the sprue, etc - those are forgiveable and can be remedied fairly quickly. But to have to inspect an item because half of a storm bolter is missing? Having to inspect an item that I may have to heat up with a blowdryer, then freeze again? They can do better than that and to say that they can't because they're not perfect is justifying their poor quality control.
They can do better, but they haven't been doing that good even in metal. To pretend that this is somehow 'omg how could this happen!' when it's a new medium is ridiculous.
GW's quality control sucks. This is not new. It is not acceptable either...But it is what it is, and it's easier to just deal with it and be optimistic.
I don't like working myself up into some murderous hatefrenzy about what is supposed to be my relaxation technique.
They can do better, but they haven't been doing that good even in metal.
Nope, the point was their metal is atleast better than the supposed "new and improved magic resin"
To pretend that this is somehow 'omg how could this happen!' when it's a new medium is ridiculous.
Again nope, you are missing the point of the Zomgness. Ppl arnt surprised about the medium change itself.
They are ZOmging about it changing into something with worse results.
GW's quality control sucks. This is not new. It is not acceptable either...But it is what it is, and it's easier to just deal with it and be optimistic.
Well thats why you are a GW apologist, customers should never "deal with" flaws or be optimistic or content about subpar casts. That kind of attitude is reserved for parents.
I don't like working myself up into some murderous hatefrenzy about what is supposed to be my relaxation technique.
Well , it MIGHT BE JUST ME, but.... when i want to relax, the last thing i want to see is tons of flash , air bubble , bent stuff.
INFACT all those extra prep time i need to take care of , is rather hatefrenzy murderous inducing.
Kanluwen wrote:
They can do better, but they haven't been doing that good even in metal. To pretend that this is somehow 'omg how could this happen!' when it's a new medium is ridiculous.
Wow, you folks must have had some bad experiences with their metal miniatures. There have been 2 flaws in recent memory with any of my metal models. One was a lictor that came with two left legs. Another one was a box of Howling Banshees that had a Legion of the Damned marine in it as well.
In neither case did I have to green stuff or rebuild any piece of the models. Other than that, I've had more trouble with the plastics than I have with the metals.
Kanluwen wrote:
They can do better, but they haven't been doing that good even in metal. To pretend that this is somehow 'omg how could this happen!' when it's a new medium is ridiculous.
Wow, you folks must have had some bad experiences with their metal miniatures. There have been 2 flaws in recent memory with any of my metal models. One was a lictor that came with two left legs. Another one was a box of Howling Banshees that had a Legion of the Damned marine in it as well.
In neither case did I have to green stuff or rebuild any piece of the models. Other than that, I've had more trouble with the plastics than I have with the metals.
Agreed, and the problem you have listed isnt casting material's fault , its the human's fault that packaged it wrong.
UNLESS, some how the howling banshees were miscasterd so badly, it magically turned into Legion of the Damned marine. Then thats a MIRACLE!
Sarius wrote:About whoever said they probably "cherry-picked" the best model for their finecast articles on the website,.. anyone else notice this?
A rather big hole... I've got a skulltaker next to me (metal) and it's meant to be solid...
I'm kinda worried about this new material.
Did you notice the broken spine piece between his fingers, and the air pots along the cape edging. . . Oh, gah, and the damage to the trophy skull on his right hip?
Fetterkey wrote:Perhaps because nobody ever actually takes a storm bolter on that unit in game? I honestly didn't even know the kit came with one until now.
Why does this matter? It's part of the kit so regardless it should be a good cast. Am I to assume then I don't deserve to have a few extra well molded bits for conversions because it's not ever used on the unit it came with? I find it ludicrous that the apologists are vehemently attacking the OP yet they are 'holding judgement' on finecast because they don't want to waste their 'energy' being negative towards GW?!? Number of posts shouldn't dictate/validate a persons' opinion and for the OP he gave a pretty even handed review while overall pointing out both flaws and benefits.
GW is the one that set the bar on their product and if it doesn't live up to their hype they are dead and buried. So far, it's impossible to judge how the product will perform in the real world; however, we'll know within the next week. There are very valid issues with this product, certainly enough that would prevent me from buying it, if I were inclined to give GW any money in the first place.
This is straight from the GW website, about the Skull Taker model from last page. . .
"Bubbles: Sometimes you will see small bubbles on the surface of Citadel Finecast models. These are easy filled with a dab of Super Glue or, if small enough, will disappear when you undercoat the model."
They have NEVER produced models which were always 100% perfect. Why should they be able to do so in resin?
Then perhaps they shouldn't hype the gak out of the new models and all but come out and tell us that they're fething perfect?! No wonder people are upset and had high expectations, GW gave us those expectations by saying gak like:
"There are no other miniatures that exist of this quality and manufactured on this scale in the world"
Then perhaps they shouldn't hype the gak out of the new models and all but come out and tell us that they're fething perfect?! No wonder people are upset and had high expectations, GW gave us those expectations by saying gak like:
"There are no other miniatures that exist of this quality and manufactured on this scale in the world"
It's their own damn fault.
Is this the same Sidstyler that posted like mad back at the good o' days at Tau Online?
lol, yeah probably. That won't always be the case though because I've found the name is more popular than I thought, it gets taken a lot on most websites.
I kinda moved to Dakka not long after the site got messed up. Tried posting on the new one for a while but it wasn't the same.
Adding to the general comments ... yeah. I was in my LGS today, and I noticed they had some of the new Fine Cast minis for sale. On a lark, I bought the Lelith mini and brought it home to compare against a metal one I bought a month or so ago. Basically, the detail is mushy, there is a lot of flash to contend with and (as I had expected from the start) bubbles ... lots and lots of bubbles. I've uploaded images showing a side by side comparison. The minis are both straight out of the blister with no clean up. In image 2 I've highlighted spots where details are almost entirely missing. In short, this is in no way an improvement over the metal.
necron2.0 wrote:Adding to the general comments ... yeah. I was in my LGS today, and I noticed they had some of the new Fine Cast minis for sale. On a lark, I bought the Lelith mini and brought it home to compare against a metal one I bought a month or so ago. Basically, the detail is mushy, there is a lot of flash to contend with and (as I had expected from the start) bubbles ... lots and lots of bubbles. I've uploaded images showing a side by side comparison. The minis are both straight out of the blister with no clean up. In image 2 I've highlighted spots where details are almost entirely missing. In short, this is in no way an improvement over the metal.
They have NEVER produced models which were always 100% perfect. Why should they be able to do so in resin?
Then perhaps they shouldn't hype the gak out of the new models and all but come out and tell us that they're fething perfect?! No wonder people are upset and had high expectations, GW gave us those expectations by saying gak like:
"There are no other miniatures that exist of this quality and manufactured on this scale in the world"
It's their own damn fault.
I'm guessing by that quote they mean crappy quality at a large scale.
Fetterkey wrote:Perhaps because nobody ever actually takes a storm bolter on that unit in game? I honestly didn't even know the kit came with one until now.
Why does this matter? It's part of the kit so regardless it should be a good cast. Am I to assume then I don't deserve to have a few extra well molded bits for conversions because it's not ever used on the unit it came with? I find it ludicrous that the apologists are vehemently attacking the OP yet they are 'holding judgement' on finecast because they don't want to waste their 'energy' being negative towards GW?!? Number of posts shouldn't dictate/validate a persons' opinion and for the OP he gave a pretty even handed review while overall pointing out both flaws and benefits.
I'm not trying to justify the errors in the model, I'm trying to explain why the reviewer might not have noticed the miscast at first. I agree that GW should cast their models correctly, even for unpopular options, but I can see why the reviewer might not have noticed that on first glance, since it's a relatively obscure bit in that kit.
GWr wrote:"There are no other miniatures that exist of this quality and manufactured on this scale in the world"
They never said that 'this quality' was good. Being the only mass producer of a lower quality miniature is not something to brag about...
In all honesty, we probably haven't seen enough yet to dismiss the entire line. No quality control process checks every single model - more like one in every hundred. The QC people also probably aren't die-hard hobbyists, are getting paid minimum wage and don't want to use a microscope to determine flaws.
I wouldn't worry about flash or vents or mould lines; there may be more, but I bet you'll spend less time removing them that you do for metal simply because resin is softer.
Not that any of that is an excuse, considering the price hike and the claims of being the best miniatures maker in the world. The number of minis used that GW is using as advertising which have defects is worrying. That huge bubble on the storm bolter should never have happened and (having some small experience in resin casting) if a bubble that big happens once you can guarantee that it will happen again. Whilst I do think that GW's models are far more highly detailed than offerings by many other companies, if they advertise as a premium product I should NOT have to deal with miscasts in any way, shape or form.
lol, yeah probably. That won't always be the case though because I've found the name is more popular than I thought, it gets taken a lot on most websites.
I kinda moved to Dakka not long after the site got messed up. Tried posting on the new one for a while but it wasn't the same.
Agreed. Did an article over there, then got severely ill and when I returned it had fragmented to what it is now. Checked out a few other "cough" premier "cough" sites, got disgusted with them and finally wound up here.
I think I'm going to see if I can get some left over sprues so I can run some tests on it. My concern is the material itself and what are its true strengths and weaknesses.
Acrylic tends to be more flexible oils or enamels.
But if it is not as flexible as the resin it may well crack and flake off.
It also depends on how well the polymers bond with the surface. They are saying a primer is not needed so it may be okay. In fact am wondering now how flexible the primer would be and it maybe better not to prime!
only time and experience will tell. Which is of no comfort if your super paint job starts falling off.
Would be good if one of the guys with the Finecast would do some tests on the sprues to see please.
Primed and unprimed
Also interesting thatthey say you don't need to wash. (the resin, gamers please not that washing IS compulsory)
Raging Heroes also made the same claim so that may be the case.
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Acrylic tends to be more flexible oils or enamels.
But if it is not as flexible as the resin it may well crack and flake off.
It also depends on how well the polymers bond with the surface. They are saying a primer is not needed so it may be okay. In fact am wondering now how flexible the primer would be and it maybe better not to prime!
I'd honestly be less worried about the paint and more worried about any varnish you apply.
thebadabwar wrote:I just picked up a Finecast Hive Tyrant and a Zoanthrope. I guess my FLGS did not get the memo about the release date. All I can tell you is that these are just lovely! Great details on both, zero flashing on the Zoanthrope, some minor mould lines. I was worried about the boxed Tyrant, since I could not see inside, but it is just fine. Just minor flashing around the very small spikes, all other pieces flash free. All the sprues are straight. I could not see any bubbles or imperfections. I will take a closer look later tonight when I get home. I am so happy with these.
Update:
There is a 1mm mould shift on the sprue with the Tyrant’s head and all those pieces are messed up, especially the head. ARGH!!! We’ll see if customer service is open tomorrow and what their response will be. The Zoanthrope is perfect on all accounts.
Post some pics if you can, I know I'd be interested in looking at them
Here is the messed up head, see the line on his tongue and the back of his head?
I really don't like what I'm seeing. That Lelith model looks pretty inferior in comparison to the metal, the spikes look more like buttons as it was pointed out, and if I'm not mistaken the tip of one of the blades is even chipped off?
Kanluwen wrote: I wouldn't accept subpar manufacturing from a car company because [i]subpar automobiles can cause accidents which kill people
no, you have saftey critical systems on a car, but you also have systems which are not safety critical like your I.C.E (In Car Entertainment) things like Screens in your rear head rests which don't display, or excess noise on your audio system becuase of EMC (Electro Magnetic Compatibility) issues.....these things won't kill you, but they will piss you off.
I'd put these in the same category as me trying to get a replacement part or the like from GW directly(my LGS doesn't stock metals, and it takes the same amount of time for them to get their shipment as it does for me to buck the feth up and file a bit of flash away, then resculpt it).
In both cases, there's people you can talk to and get things fixed. To pretend that because your I.C.E. won't function correctly there's no choice but a replacement car(which in some cases might be true) is the same as a single miscast piece on a sprue is ridiculous.
Further to your point. While I have certainly read that "miniatures come unpainted and require assembly" i don't believe I've ever read, anywhere that I would need to resculpt my miniature....would you care to cite where you have read this and provide proof. I will humbly stand corrected if you can, seriously.
You and I both know damned well that they haven't said that you'd need to "resculpt your miniature", just like none of these "HIDEOUS MISCASTS" would actually require someone to sculpt the entire miniature again. Overreact more please.
Ahh, the age old question....why do I bother? You know what, thank you for stating that I'm overreacting....you're absolutely right, I am.....I'm not even purchasing GW products anymore, so what do I care if people like you defend their crap quality and allow GW to prosper....go ahead, keep spending the Dollars dude, have at it.
As far as doing you the courtesy of answering your point, I believe that the car and miniature example are relative to one another, both are products that hold a certain amount of expectation from their customers, when those expectations are not met, people have a right to complain or ask for a replacement.....not get their hands dirty fixing the problem themselves.
Now even a GW apologists like you can understand that very simple point. Now, you can respond to this, if you feel it necessary to do so, but I woun't be responding back, as I'm pretty bored with this round-about conversation, with the same people saying the same thing they always say in a thread of this type.
Sarius wrote:About whoever said they probably "cherry-picked" the best model for their finecast articles on the website,.. anyone else notice this?
A rather big hole... I've got a skulltaker next to me (metal) and it's meant to be solid...
I'm kinda worried about this new material.
Did you notice the broken spine piece between his fingers, and the air pots along the cape edging. . . Oh, gah, and the damage to the trophy skull on his right hip?
Not only that but I can see at least one more hole, 4 o'clock from the one that is circled, and it looks like there's a hole next to the right thumb of the person holding the fig on the hem of the cloak.
Not really impressed at all. What bothers me is I'm going to be forced to buy this stuff when the new Necron codex comes out to get the new figs that are included in the codex.
Just looked at the list of models on the website that they finally fixed. I, for one, welcome our new Finecast overlords. The only model I want is the Nurgle Daemon Prince, and it really doesn't matter if it is miscast, who would be able to tell with something Nurgle anyways? Bravo GW, you did me good on this one and it only went up .50 USD.
But I shall return to slagging the rest of the line in due time.
Goddard wrote:To be perfectly honest, I think in 3 months time the Finecasts will be awesome. As of now, I think quality control has some tweaking to do.
Till then, if i decide to purchase any, I will be opening any blisters/boxes at the counter before I pay for them.
I wasn't impressed. Some of those models looked like crap...the tyrant guard in particular, where the left arm under the armor plating is just a mess (instead of being...well...an arm) and it was covered in mold lines. The succubus had a messed-up blade and one of the spikes on the agonizer didn't form right, looked like it was just a hole where it should have been. For the tyrant they used all the plastic arms instead of the resin ones, and some of the older kits like raptors didn't even have new pics, just the same old metal models with the same paintjobs they've always had. No pics of incubi either. Lelith didn't look as bad as the one posted here but still worse than the metal in my opinion...
Maybe I'm just trying too hard to find things to nitpick, it's entirely possible, but like I said...GW promised us these would "revolutionize" the hobby, that these were the "finest quality models ever produced", so I don't think I'm being exactly unfair when I hold them under the microscope and point out all the little ways they're inferior to the metals.
And is it just me, or are they being more than a little deceptive by using the painted metals for all the display pics? I realize they don't have time to paint up a whole new batch of crap, but still, it's pretty much an outright lie.
@Sid
No, I agree with what you're saying, some of the paint jobs look rather. . odd. I think I may have caught instances of Photoshopping as well. Also, I hadn't realized they were using plastic arms for the tyrant. . .wow. The product is inferior. Tomorrow, I'm going to pick up 1 blister to see what they're doing. Perhaps, a Succubus, and I'll throw up a review.
lol, I was thinking the same thing...buy a succubus as a "test" to see it in person. Either that, or another archon (which I already have two of) or Lelith which I might never use.
God man, I keep looking at these pics and I keep seeing the same thing: little bits missing off of the end of a blade. It's a really minor thing to complain about, but it still annoys me to no end, I HATE that gak. You're pretty much forced at that point to take your damn knife and carve into the end (shortening the length of the blade even more) so that it actually looks like a sharp blade, like it's supposed to, and like it did when you bought the same model in metal. I think I made my point clear enough already but the fact that these were the examples deemed "good enough" to feature on the website, I am not filled with confidence and I'm pretty sure the $20 I waste on that figure tomorrow will be just that: a waste.
At best i see finecast benefiting nids and Dark eldar the most when done correctly since the edging is what creates the detail but these pictures don't fill me with the most amount of confidence im buying a archon today and ill let you guys know how i get on tomorrow hopefully i can bring some good to this bad situation xD
Even the Succubus on the website has a decent chunk missing from the end of the spear, and a few divets from accidental knife strokes. Not to mention, you can catch a few bubbles by the feet. They didn't even clean the damn mold lines off! WTF. Wheres the professionalism?
They have NEVER produced models which were always 100% perfect. Why should they be able to do so in resin?
Then perhaps they shouldn't hype the gak out of the new models and all but come out and tell us that they're fething perfect?! No wonder people are upset and had high expectations, GW gave us those expectations by saying gak like:
"There are no other miniatures that exist of this quality and manufactured on this scale in the world"
It's their own damn fault.
And perhaps BMW shouldn't claim their vehicles are "The Ultimate Driving Machine", but they do, and are quite well known for things breaking on their cars all the time. Which in many cases, they don't fix for free. Welcome to the world of marketing. At least GW has a very good reputation for replacing defective products at their expense.
LunaHound wrote:@Delephont
Why would GW hire people to quality check their product lines when they can have GW apologist telling the complaining customers to ***** off for free?
Thats what i hate about GW fan boys. Its not just the audacity of what they say, but they help prolong GW's shameless actions.
Perhaps because in any industry quality control will never be 100% perfect, and most companies have no problem rectifying these issues when they arise, and that's easier than trying to achieve total perfection that a small percentage of the community demands? You act like if you contacted GW about a defective model they would tell you to deal with it, rather than send a free replacement, like they do for everyone who has ever bothered to let them know they received a defective product.
What prolongs GW's "shameless" actions is not the fanboys, but their customers as a whole. And I would hazard a guess that includes 99% of the people bitching about GW's shameless actions, but continue to still buy their products despite their apparent hatred for the company they support. If you don't like how they run things, vote with your wallet. That's the only reaction that matters on any level. But don't single out the "fanboys" when the critics are still buying the products as much as anyone else.
necron2.0 wrote:Adding to the general comments ... yeah. I was in my LGS today, and I noticed they had some of the new Fine Cast minis for sale. On a lark, I bought the Lelith mini and brought it home to compare against a metal one I bought a month or so ago. Basically, the detail is mushy, there is a lot of flash to contend with and (as I had expected from the start) bubbles ... lots and lots of bubbles. I've uploaded images showing a side by side comparison. The minis are both straight out of the blister with no clean up. In image 2 I've highlighted spots where details are almost entirely missing. In short, this is in no way an improvement over the metal.
yakface wrote:
Hmmm 'Failcost' now? First it was 'Finecost' or 'Failcast', but now they've been combined into a word which now shares no similarities with the actual product...fantastic! I suggest we take it even further and choose a completely random word to describe this miniature line. Fzorgle perhaps? Or why stop there, let's use a whole SERIES of words to describe it. How about CRASSUS ARMORED TRANSPORT?
Cadaver wrote:Perhaps because in any industry quality control will never be 100% perfect, and most companies have no problem rectifying these issues when they arise, and that's easier than trying to achieve total perfection that a small percentage of the community demands? You act like if you contacted GW about a defective model they would tell you to deal with it, rather than send a free replacement, like they do for everyone who has ever bothered to let them know they received a defective product.
Arnt you forgetting something? If i want to start working on a project , and its defective , you know i have to call them and wait 2-3 weeks for replacement to arrive?
Maybe you are the type that drools over the free extra bits from replacement , but i rather not have a defective one in the first place.
Also the GW in Canada dont send the whole kit. They only send me the part that i describe was defective.
It doesnt need to be 100% perfect , but it sure seem to have a rather high % of defects especially for a product that just LAUNCHED.
If GW is seriously trying to win its customers over for a supposedly superior product , then by all means they should be EVEN MORE SO careful.
yakface wrote: Hmmm 'Failcost' now? First it was 'Finecost' or 'Failcast', but now they've been combined into a word which now shares no similarities with the actual product...fantastic! I suggest we take it even further and choose a completely random word to describe this miniature line. Fzorgle perhaps? Or why stop there, let's use a whole SERIES of words to describe it. How about CRASSUS ARMORED TRANSPORT?
Given what we've seen so far I vote for Miscast.
Given what I've seen so far, combining two snarky portmanteaus into one is just what this product deserves. Failcast it is.
H.B.M.C. wrote:I know it's fun - and easier - for you, Tailgunner, to immediately assume that I go straight for the jugular and never even try to see the (potential) good in anything, but please don't misrepresent me.
Oh come on - there's more than a whiff of hypocrisy in that. Your record on this site, over many years, speaks for itself. You are invariably all over any thread in which GW is being criticised (whether or not they deserve it). This one is a good example - how many times have you posted in this thread already? You have even begun suggesting that the few positive comments about Finecast in this thread have been 'planted'. So don't pretend that my comment misrepresented your attitude. If there was any misrepresentation, it was your own pretence at open-mindedness. As for not 'going for the jugular' (your words, not mine) - the ferocity with which you attack posters who don't jump on your bandwagon (such as Kanluwen) speaks for itself.
In this case, HBMC, I am inclined to share your and others' view of both Finecast and GW's bad handling of its roll-out. But your self-righteous grandstanding and nasty attitude to those who disagree with you make it difficult for me (and, I suspect, others) not to seek to defend GW even when, as here, they seem to have screwed up.
Seeing as though this is turning into the de facto review thread, I'll post one I've found here. Dark Elf Bolt Thrower review. He stays pretty neutral, but the flaws are unfortunately obvious and many. I guess it's to be expected when even the GW picture of the thing has a chunk missing from two of the arrowheads and a bit of what appears to be a piece of the mould on the face of one of the crewmen.
Just been to the shop, bought my first Hive Guard, the detail does look a little better, but the whole tounge is miscast and looks like flash....
The rest looks ok, but not a good first impression, and not for £15.50. I'm considering returning it, but have a feeling it will now be 'can I find the lest mis-cast model' and don't want to end up with a worse one. The price they charge though, surely someone would be having a look over the damn thing before it was being shipped off?
Oh my... each new review and each new picture about the Finecasts is a slap in the face for those that had some kind of respect for the sculpts or miniatures in general... I'm really really sad to see this huge downgrade in quality, Im speechless.
AngelGrinder wrote:Just been to the shop, bought my first Hive Guard, the detail does look a little better, but the whole tounge is miscast and looks like flash....
The rest looks ok, but not a good first impression, and not for £15.50. I'm considering returning it, but have a feeling it will now be 'can I find the lest mis-cast model' and don't want to end up with a worse one. The price they charge though, surely someone would be having a look over the damn thing before it was being shipped off?
I hate to add to your woe but the vertical spines on the tail are clearly miscast too.
Indeed, but atleast they are fixable. The tounge is a GS only repair....
The rest of the model looks fine, no air bubbles I can obviously see. The back main armour looks a little pitted, but the metal one was similar. Not a great start to my introduction to 'the worlds most amazing models ever!!11oneone!1!!.
So many miscasts! This is really concerning. I don't want to be wasting my time replacing parts, and filling holes on miniatures that I'm already paying a premium for.
What Kilkrazy said, surely there must be some people who've bought some Finecasts without flaws?
AngelGrinder wrote:Indeed, but atleast they are fixable. The tounge is a GS only repair....
That's not the point. I shouldn't have to be re-sculpting whole parts of my model like that, especially one that I paid $25 for (I think the hive guard is $25.50 now?). Miner clean-up, sanding, and filling bubbles I can take, but when entire parts of the model are missing? I don't care how "easy" it is to fix, GW failed to deliver and I'm getting a replacement for it, hopefully one that was actually cast right in the first place.
Why is it small garage outfits can cast models with little to no flaws but GW's "Finecast" models look like that? I'm hoping they just rushed these out the door and that this isn't the kind of quality we can expect in the future, but still, how long are we going to have to wait before the product is finally as good as they claimed?
I hope my first Failcast purchase doesn't look like this.
I bought a (possibly slightly dubious) alternative Vulkan He'Stan model from a seller in Russia on eBay - That was cast perfectly except for one flaw in the socket where the halberd blade joined the shaft, which was easily fixed.
I am a bit worried by all these pics - I for one don't actually want GW to utterly fail, but the quality is looking patchy so far.
htj wrote:So many miscasts! This is really concerning. I don't want to be wasting my time replacing parts, and filling holes on miniatures that I'm already paying a premium for.
What Kilkrazy said, surely there must be some people who've bought some Finecasts without flaws?
Not one bought at the GW Cairns today could be shown without flaws.
The display items in the window were clearly the "best" they could find, and even those were not flawless.
To be honest, the new resin hybrid seems to be taking the assembly to new skill levels while the sprues themselves seem to make the initial clipping and cleaning mroe painful.
Gamers and hobbyists should now be asking themselves:
Getting reports from other forums of people being informed they have to send back the miscast models to get a replacement, they can't just ring up Direct and get a replacement sent out.
Those phones lines are going to be red hot this coming week....
H.B.M.C. wrote:I'll be presenting the Commissar Calgar review of the 'Finecost' Ork Shokk Attack Gun later on...
I'm not sold on Finecost as a term of derision. To me it implies that the cost is fine. Which, well, it's not.
AvatarForm wrote:
Not one bought at the GW Cairns today could be shown without flaws.
The display items in the window were clearly the "best" they could find, and even those were not flawless.
To be honest, the new resin hybrid seems to be taking the assembly to new skill levels while the sprues themselves seem to make the initial clipping and cleaning mroe painful.
Gamers and hobbyists should now be asking themselves:
"Are these premium prices really worth my time?"
Bad tidings indeed. I really don't want the answer to be no.
Grimtuff wrote:Getting reports from other forums of people being informed they have to send back the miscast models to get a replacement, they can't just ring up Direct and get a replacement sent out.
Those phones lines are going to be red hot this coming week....
So not only do I have to wait even longer to get the product I paid for, now I have to ship it to them on MY dime? Paying even more money, and probably ending up with something of comparable quality to the miscast crap I bought in the first place?
If that's true then GW will have really hit the gakker, their customer service isn't even worth praising anymore.
Personally I am dismayed by what I have read and seen so far. I have only been building models for a few months and absolutely HATE the metal ones. Reading these reports about fine cast has prompted me to go buy all the figures I need in metal.
For the price they are charging there is no way they can't afford to have staff QC these things properly. I find it hard to believe that GW are not aware of the state of their "finecasts" when they released them.
Unix wrote:I guess the real question GW should ask is;
What will be your first returned Citadel Finecast Model?
Haha.
This all seems rushed, which would explain the problems.
I think that's probably what happened, they were rushing to try and get all these things cast and sent out to stores. Things should get better over time, or one would hope anyway.
I know everyone is eagre to write this off as a failure, but can we actually wait til more than 3 hours after launch before we start hailing annedotal evidence as the norm?
For instance at GW Milton Keynes the staff were nice enough to let me break open a Seer Council box to see the model quality and how it was like to assemble; the only issue I could see was that the Warlocks Staff was ever so slightly bent if you looked at it from a specific angle - you always see this in metal figures. The material itself was fantastic, but of course like some of the doomsayers on this thread I'm also biased, since I don't like metal.
So basically my annedote is that there is no miscast issue from what I saw; I could have been lucky, or it could be the norm. I'll be interested to see what the picture is like over the next few days before drawing any further conclusions.
AngelGrinder wrote:Just been to the shop, bought my first Hive Guard, the detail does look a little better, but the whole tounge is miscast and looks like flash....
The rest looks ok, but not a good first impression, and not for £15.50. I'm considering returning it, but have a feeling it will now be 'can I find the lest mis-cast model' and don't want to end up with a worse one. The price they charge though, surely someone would be having a look over the damn thing before it was being shipped off?
I hate to add to your woe but the vertical spines on the tail are clearly miscast too.
FYI: The tongue on the metals of these was the same, and had to be filed down. (Something I did very recently). The 'miscast vertical spines' are actually vents, and simply need to be clipped off.
I'm reserving any judgement on these until a little later today, when I hit GW and see them for myself. I'll post my thoughts later.
I bought the Coteaz, Commissar and the EC. I think my local store must have got a good batch because mine are seriously nice models with no flaws what so ever. Detail is really crisp and there is minimal flash and virtually no moldlines.
The Coteaz model has now got to be my all time favourite GW model.
It does seem that a lot of people are getting duff models though which is a real shame.
AngelGrinder wrote:Just been to the shop, bought my first Hive Guard, the detail does look a little better, but the whole tounge is miscast and looks like flash....
The rest looks ok, but not a good first impression, and not for £15.50. I'm considering returning it, but have a feeling it will now be 'can I find the lest mis-cast model' and don't want to end up with a worse one. The price they charge though, surely someone would be having a look over the damn thing before it was being shipped off?
I hate to add to your woe but the vertical spines on the tail are clearly miscast too.
FYI: The tongue on the metals of these was the same, and had to be filed down. (Something I did very recently). The 'miscast vertical spines' are actually vents, and simply need to be clipped off.
I have the new Marneus Calgar with Honour Guard kit and I can say that there are very few flaws. Probable the same as metal, but they are more obvious in resin because of the colour. I took some close up pics and HD video for a review video and posted it on my blog (http://itslikewatchingpaintdry.blogspot.com/)
FYI: The tongue on the metals of these was the same, and had to be filed down. (Something I did very recently). The 'miscast vertical spines' are actually vents, and simply need to be clipped off.
O'RLY? ...
I stand corrected. I did not actually pull mine out for comparison and those look so bad I just figured it was smooth carapace all the way down. Wow, that is bad.
Are miscasts really that common or is this just a case of all the people with miscasts exploding all over the internet, while the people with decent models are off painting theirs?
This actually has me worried, I was planning on buying a few of the Eldar sets from Malstrom before the embargo.
FYI: The tongue on the metals of these was the same, and had to be filed down. (Something I did very recently). The 'miscast vertical spines' are actually vents, and simply need to be clipped off.
O'RLY?
...
I stand corrected. I did not actually pull mine out for comparison and those look so bad I just figured it was smooth carapace all the way down. Wow, that is bad.
That leads to another problem, if you are not aware of all the details in the sculpted model you can by accident confuse flash or bursted bubbles with the actual sculpt... this is a clear sign to how bad this cast is, when you can't figure out whats the model and whats the flash/gates/bubbles/sprue ...
I think most of you guys need to buy some damn tissues, take a shower to cool off and grow the feth up. If the finecast line fails so what, HOPEFULLY GW learns its lesson and wont screw up so badly next time. I doubt itll go that far though. They have done awesome on other ventuers. APOC was a gamble for them, and we simply cant get enough of the giant tanks/stompas/titans and every army redue they have done lately has been simply fantastic looking. Who wants to really try and argue that the DE resculpts are anything but awesome? Go ahead and try, Ill mail you a fist in the mouth for trying to look cool on da interwebz.
i think someone is ignorant and needs a history lesson on GW. Apoc was NOT much of a gamble for them. Folks, even at events, we're playing large scale gams of GW with lots of tanks and titans long before Apoc came about. They just now benefit from it.
Ignorant on some things sure, but not on this. You are the one that not only needs a history lesson, but also a lesson in manners. Just because people made cardboard titans didnt mean it was a sure thing for GW to make massive plastic models and price them at over $100 each. That was a pretty big gameble for them at the time, they didnt know how well the APOC set was going to sell, if its numbers were too soft they would had to of pulled the plug and take the loss. You cant look at how well APOC sells NOW and say nope, your a stupid head for saying it was a gamble then. So enjoy that high horse your sitting on and keep pretending your the king of right
KingCracker wrote:I think most of you guys need to buy some damn tissues, take a shower to cool off and grow the feth up ... Go ahead and try, Ill mail you a fist in the mouth for trying to look cool on da interwebz.
KingCracker wrote:You are the one that not only needs a history lesson, but also a lesson in manners.
I've just bought the Harlequin Death Jester and the Empire Captain w hammer & pistol at my local GW store:
Both are perfectly fine, except for one of the two small knives sticking out of the Captain's helmet which is missing. I already noticed that before buying it though, and since I was planning on removing those knives anyway I didn't mind.
As far as the blisters go, just inspect the content even more carefully than before to make sure you don't get flawed items. I checked out a lot of the blisters and I did indeed see a lot of questionable casts/bent stuff/pieces missing/extravagant amount of flash. Likewise I also saw some very beautifully looking miniatures with no flaws at all.
They had several models built and were building a handful more while I was in, and for example the Ghazghkull that was on display (unpainted) had a crazy amount of flash & some deformed parts. I don't know why they didn't remove all the flash before putting it together, because right now it looks like crap and makes it an absolutely horrible way to advertise the product. Also one of the employees was building the Shaggoth and was trying to straighten the axe which was bent in a cup of hot water. The axe blades were awfully crooked too. Of course the metal has (had) it's fair amount of flash & bendyness, but I've never seen it as bad and widespread as this.
- Check out the stuff in the blisters really carefully before buying.
- At the moment I wouldn't buy any finecast unseen, so no boxes for me until further notice.
- The store staff claimed these are most likely starting up problems because they had to fill all the stores so quickly. I guess we'll have to wait and see. Let's hope it is true, otherwise this is a definitive step backwards and very much a deal breaker considering the increased prices.
- On the positive side, the material does feel & look good. If you get an item with nothing wrong with it you do get a very fine looking, light miniature.
And last but not least the prices:
Some items did not get a price raise at all (Emperor's Champion, DE Archon, IG Lord Commissar which supposedly is not mail order only anymore now just like the Empire Captain), and others did. There seems to be no clear logic behind this. The Ork Painboy (+ 3,50 I think) got a higher raise than the Techmarine box (+ 2,50). Very weird. The Terminator armoured Librarian now costs 20,25 (euro). I'm perfectly sure it cost 15,- before. Marneus Calgar went from 40,- to 50,-.
In general I don't consider this stuff worth the extra amount they now ask for it, so the only thing GW achieved is that I'll be extremely selective in which finecast items I'll buy. A lot of kits I will not even consider anymore. The new prices compared to the new (current) quality are simply unacceptable.
At least GW has a very good reputation for replacing defective products at their expense.
GW will have to write off these losses.
That will eat into GW profits.
They will either take the hit on the chin, which is going to be unlikely as the management are a bunch of chinless wonders or more likely prices will go up so the customer ends up paying in the long run.
I guess at least with replacements we can't say GW never do bogof deals!
Sorry AFAIK BMW don't claim that it is the best drive ever due to revolutionary and cheaper materials so we are whacking the price up 25%
And if they did I don't think there would be a bunch of apologists saying how cool that will be, can't wait!
doghouse wrote:I bought the Coteaz, Commissar and the EC. I think my local store must have got a good batch because mine are seriously nice models with no flaws what so ever.
I was looking at several of each of those exact three models too today, and all of them were of very good quality & without any noticable flaws. Maybe some miniatures/molds lend themselves better for the new material than others, Idk.
Watching Paint Dry wrote:I have the new Marneus Calgar with Honour Guard kit and I can say that there are very few flaws. Probable the same as metal, but they are more obvious in resin because of the colour. I took some close up pics and HD video for a review video and posted it on my blog (http://itslikewatchingpaintdry.blogspot.com/)
These look very nice. thank you for putting up a video review!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
somebody posted a review on youtube in German. Looks nice.
I bought a chaplain and jump pack and some sterguard vets for my brother this morning, I had read a few negative reviews so i got the Manager, who i know to let me check them before buying,
He also said he had only had a handfull of returns so far, all for miscasts, but compared to the amount sold, this was about normal.
I had a pretty good look at them and i could see no miscasts, just alot of lines and quite a bit of extra material hanging around some of the parts, (not sure what the word is for this).
All in all i was very happy, i would provide photos but i had to wrap them up and give them as a gift, I will definatly be picking up some for myself at a later date.
@ Miss Dee - The vast majority of the finecast models are simply recasts of the original sculpts. So no new Techmarine model with conversion beamer - just the same old Techmarine model made out of cheaper easier broken material that costs you more money!! (forgive my bitterness)
So am I right in assuming that GW are still selling metal models from their website as long as they haven't replaced that model with failcast? Now I can just hope that they don't replace my fabourite metals before I get the chance to buy them!!!
doghouse wrote:I bought the Coteaz, Commissar and the EC. I think my local store must have got a good batch because mine are seriously nice models with no flaws what so ever.
I was looking at several of each of those exact three models too today, and all of them were of very good quality & without any noticable flaws. Maybe some miniatures/molds lend themselves better for the new material than others, Idk.
Yeah certainly seems that way. I must admit I'm over the moon with mine but a lot of people I know are saying they have quite a few miscasts so I figure I must have been quite lucky. A mate of mine bought the commissar as well and said he had quite a few little air bubbles where as mine is honestly flawless and looks like a plastic model.
I toyed with getting the techmarine but as it is a boxed set and you can't see the model I decided against it. I think they should stick a transparent window on the back of boxes so you can check them out before you buy if this is the way forward or they'll end up with load of angry customers sending stuff back.
doghouse wrote:I think they should stick a transparent window on the back of boxes so you can check them out before you buy if this is the way forward or they'll end up with load of angry customers sending stuff back.
I hear what you're saying - but surely their quality control means that no miscast models should even be boxed, let alone sent out to the shops! Its the manufacturers job to make a working product, not the customers job to avoid a broken product.
I've had trouble with GW mail order in the past. Loads of trouble. Key examples include a box of nine Valhallans and one Ork Burna arm and a LotR human with banner and on foot instead of a single, bannerless, ork. Because, you know, those things look similar. If GW mail order can't spot the difference here, then their QA spotting miscasts seems unlikely.
htj wrote:I've had trouble with GW mail order in the past. Loads of trouble. Key examples include a box of nine Valhallans and one Ork Burna arm and a LotR human with banner and on foot instead of a single, bannerless, ork. Because, you know, those things look similar. If GW mail order can't spot the difference here, then their QA spotting miscasts seems unlikely.
I just got home from GW. I bought four models, the terminator librarian, ork mek w/ forcefield, ork painboy, and Ababadbabdbadon. Having read the thread before going there, I opened all packages at the counter.
Nothing glaringly wrong on any of the four. I'm now looking them over more closely, as I remove parts from sprues. Unless there's demand, I'm not going to photo this, because there's not much to see. I may post pics when I have got them all desprued and gone through the mold-line removal process (which I do for metals, plastics, FW and whatever else). But so far, no problems.
Also, the store manager was casually throwing one of their demo models around the store, tossing it to customers. It dropped a couple of times with no ill effects, not even glued-on components were damaged. So I thought that was interesting, it's apparently not a fragile material.
LunaHound wrote:
Arnt you forgetting something? If i want to start working on a project , and its defective , you know i have to call them and wait 2-3 weeks for replacement to arrive?
Maybe you are the type that drools over the free extra bits from replacement , but i rather not have a defective one in the first place.
Also the GW in Canada dont send the whole kit. They only send me the part that i describe was defective.
It doesnt need to be 100% perfect , but it sure seem to have a rather high % of defects especially for a product that just LAUNCHED.
If GW is seriously trying to win its customers over for a supposedly superior product , then by all means they should be EVEN MORE SO careful.
Fair enough, but if the purchases are made in a store, you can examine the models before purchasing, which I've always done for metal blisters as well. I would also argue the few pictures posted here are not indicative of quality across the range. I'm sure most people who have received perfectly fine models aren't going to bother posting up pictures of them. With the recent announcements in policy changes and prices rises, I think alot of people here are looking for anything else they can find to criticize GW. However, if there is a widespread issue of quality issues, it should certainly be addressed, and GW has a pretty good track record in that regard.
Been needing to buy a libby specifically and I hate metal models so this is superb news to me. Thanks for the review. I was very fond of the liberal use of "BAM" throughout.
I'm hoping the 10-15 or so people complaining about miscasts are just being outspoken and the several thousands who bought them and aren't complaining got perfectly fine models.
It makes sense if you got a nice model you'd just happily build it, where if you got a miscast you'd be understandably furious and want other people to know.
I'm pretty excited about the Hive Tyrant and Hive Guard. I've always had to buy them assembled (or not at all in case of the Tyrant) because I wasn't willing to drill into $20+ metal models and "see how it works".
Griever wrote:I'm hoping the 10-15 or so people complaining about miscasts are just being outspoken and the several thousands who bought them and aren't complaining got perfectly fine models.
It makes sense if you got a nice model you'd just happily build it, where if you got a miscast you'd be understandably furious and want other people to know.
I'm pretty excited about the Hive Tyrant and Hive Guard. I've always had to buy them assembled (or not at all in case of the Tyrant) because I wasn't willing to drill into $20+ metal models and "see how it works".
Pics or it didn't happen. If there are literally so many people w/ perfect product, there is no reason they can't take 5 minutes to post a pic of said perfect product. As far as I'm aware only the poster who purchased two Tyrannid models has posted pics of a nicely molded model. And I'm seeing way more than 10-15 people complaining.
Ignorance may be bliss for some as they won't be able to spot the issues.
As much as we may know what to look for there will be a lot more buying a model they can feel more confident in working with and the minor problems will simply be ignored.
Not a great shot because my camera is a bit rubbish but they are really nice in person. The commissar genuinely looks like he is a plastic model now that I've cleaned the flash off and they convert like a dream.
Griever wrote:I'm hoping the 10-15 or so people complaining about miscasts are just being outspoken and the several thousands who bought them and aren't complaining got perfectly fine models.
It makes sense if you got a nice model you'd just happily build it, where if you got a miscast you'd be understandably furious and want other people to know.
I'm pretty excited about the Hive Tyrant and Hive Guard. I've always had to buy them assembled (or not at all in case of the Tyrant) because I wasn't willing to drill into $20+ metal models and "see how it works".
Pics or it didn't happen. If there are literally so many people w/ perfect product, there is no reason they can't take 5 minutes to post a pic of said perfect product. As far as I'm aware only the poster who purchased two Tyrannid models has posted pics of a nicely molded model. And I'm seeing way more than 10-15 people complaining.
Well, it was nicely moulded apart from the bits that were badly moulded.
Rymafyr wrote:
Pics or it didn't happen. If there are literally so many people w/ perfect product, there is no reason they can't take 5 minutes to post a pic of said perfect product. As far as I'm aware only the poster who purchased two Tyrannid models has posted pics of a nicely molded model. And I'm seeing way more than 10-15 people complaining.
Okay, here are high res (4x actual size) photos of my librarian. I just finished prepping it - maybe 20-30 minutes.
My review:
There are several smaller bubbles. These aren't a big deal, and will fill easily. They're almost all on the underside of the model, so even if not filled, would be hard to notice.
My shoulderpad on the staff arm had a clump of excess resin in between the edge and body of the shoulderpad. This was the only place I needed to use my dremel to clean out. (Compared with using 2 or 3 times on my metal version of the same model).
The material is VERY easy to work with. I did all my prep with just my hobby knife, except the aforementioned single dremel use. It's almost too easy to work with - I think I trimmed away something I shouldn't have, although no one will notice it. It also cleans nicer than metal, there were places that I could get my hobby knife that on a metal model, I'd have been unable to get the file.
It cleans up in reasonable time. I don't know if it was faster to prep this than the metal one, but it certainly didn't take longer.
Detail really stands out. I didn't realize there was a lightning bolt under the book on his shoulderpad.
It's very slightly bigger than metal - the staff is roughly 1mm taller on the finecast. Not a big deal, as 1mm over a 55 cm staff is maybe 2% difference.
Anyhow, I'm not at all upset, I don't see any huge problem, and the pics are here, because it did happen ;p
They do look very smooth. Just looking at the writing on the tab, which is nice and sharp too.
I think a lot of early casts have had problems, hopefully future casts will be consistent. I think GWS have just rushed the first lot out. I'm not entirely sure why though. Surely they still had metal miniatures on the shelves?
I think they should of taken their time doing it. Hell, they should of stuck a free Finecast miniature on the front of WD before switching. Everybody likes free stuff
Ghazkulls bolter arm had a ton of mold release left on it plus some air bubbles that will not be fixable. I plan to use the return policy for that one tomorrow. All the other sprues (3 out of 4) was without any unexpected flaws or missing details.
From what Watching Paint Dry said on a video review (in another thread? I'm getting confused) there is a bit of shrinkage with metal as it cools.
Plastic resin doesn't which is why it retains the crispness of detail, and maybe why the staff is a tad taller.
I constantly see the same problems in ALL these reviews... You dont even need to read, just looking at pictures you are clarified.
Damn.
Edit: on the review he refered something about the ratio and mould material on blisters
It took 6 packs to get this model, which was the least affected of the bunch. Several of the rejected models actually had mould material stuck to them
Still I have to wonder why this guy paid the money for it. Whether it takes 1, 6 or 20 packs, you can clearly look inside to check out the quality of the front & sides of the miniature at least, so if there is no acceptable cast among them then don't buy any at all. And don't buy anything unseen if you want to be sure you don't get a miscast. Simple as that.
Obviously it sucks, but it's his own fault that he still made the purchase.
If he bought it for reviewing purpose only, then why would anyone want to waste their money just to review a miniature you know is defective before buying it. I'm sure there were miniatures other than 6 defective Sterns around @ Warhammer World which were cast perfectly fine, but yet he chose to review a flawed one instead.
H.B.M.C. wrote:I'll be presenting the Commissar Calgar review of the 'Finecost' Ork Shokk Attack Gun later on...
I'm really excited about this review in particular since the SAG was one of the first metal minis I ever got, and I am intimately familiar with the details on it.
pixelpusher wrote:Ghazkulls bolter arm had a ton of mold release left on it plus some air bubbles that will not be fixable. I plan to use the return policy for that one tomorrow
What are you referring to by mold release - silicone grease or similar? I had read you'd be able to paint these right out of the blister without priming, but doubted that could possibly be true. That really would be revolutionary.
TBD wrote:Still I have to wonder why this guy payed the money for it. Whether it takes 1, 6 or 20 packs, you can clearly look inside to check out the quality of the front & sides of the miniature at least, so if there is no acceptable cast among them then don't buy any at all. And don't buy anything unseen if you want to be sure you don't get a miscast. Simple as that.
TBD wrote:Obviously it sucks, but it's his own fault that he still made the purchase.
Well, that's one perspective. Myself, I'd tend to blame GWS for shipping substandard merchandise in the first place. But it is a valid point that by buying this crap, you're perpetuating it.
Hm, with these guys I might be worried about warping, no matter how cool you run it. I tend to wash all my models in this rectangular tupperware thing I have with lukewarm water and dish soap, let soak for a few hours then wash. If they are metal or resin I also hit them with an old soft toothbrush a little (I skip this step on plastic).
Hm, with these guys I might be worried about warping, no matter how cool you run it. I tend to wash all my models in this rectangular tupperware thing I have with lukewarm water and dish soap, let soak for a few hours then wash. If they are metal or resin I also hit them with an old soft toothbrush a little (I skip this step on plastic).
I cheat these days. I have an ultrasonic cleaner that I bought myself for Christmas and I use that. Little bit of cool water and dish soap and voila, everything's clean in a 5 minute cycle.
Redbeard wrote:Abbadon: (even easier to clean up than the libby, and no issues I noticed)
The saddest part of this whole business was that when the rumors started, but before they started materializing into this, I began hoping that, among other things, Abbadon would finally get the model he deserves. :(
TBD wrote:*snip* If he bought it for reviewing purpose only, then why would anyone want to waste their money just to review a miniature you know is defective before buying it. I'm sure there were miniatures other than 6 defective Sterns around @ Warhammer World which were cast perfectly fine, but yet he chose to review a flawed one instead.
Hmmmm let me see.... because he wanted a new Stern maybe??!!
@KK, there was a post somewhere else that said there was bright pink mould on the model that had to be removed. But after that the mini was ready to paint (sans primer) after a quick wash.
@Redbeard, the sword is warped i think, or at least not particularly straight.
Kanluwen wrote:I cheat these days. I have an ultrasonic cleaner that I bought myself for Christmas and I use that. Little bit of cool water and dish soap and voila, everything's clean in a 5 minute cycle.
Hmm, there's one I never heard of. Looks like they run about $36 on Amazon, right? Have you tried greasy resin in it? Because that sounds like a worthwhile purchase.
Ouze wrote:The saddest part of this whole business was that when the rumors started, but before they started materializing into this, I began hoping that, among other things, Abbadon would finally get the model he deserves. :(
After all those failures? He's got the model he deserves.
Kanluwen wrote:I cheat these days. I have an ultrasonic cleaner that I bought myself for Christmas and I use that. Little bit of cool water and dish soap and voila, everything's clean in a 5 minute cycle.
Hmm, there's one I never heard of. Looks like they run about $36 on Amazon, right? Have you tried greasy resin in it? Because that sounds like a worthwhile purchase.
Oh yes. It works pretty nice on greasy resin. Sometimes if it's really really greasy though, it's best to put a little Simple Green in and go from there.
pixelpusher wrote:Ghazkulls bolter arm had a ton of mold release left on it plus some air bubbles that will not be fixable. I plan to use the return policy for that one tomorrow
What are you referring to by mold release - silicone grease or similar? I had read you'd be able to paint these right out of the blister without priming, but doubted that could possibly be true. That really would be revolutionary.
Dunno what this gunk is. I don't want to speculate... it looks much like something entirely different ^_^ (I need to clean my lense as well... the black spots are dust not air bubbles.)
The mold itself is pink-ish. Found some under Ghazkulls feet.
I wouldn't paint these – or anything really – out of the box. You'll add enough grease and stuff just by handling the mini while assembling. I clean and degrase with some simple green before and after assembly.
That looks like an old mold that was wearing out----was coated with Mold Release to extend its shelf life (then poured too quickly after the release was sprayed in the mold)----yet degenerated/broke apart when the model was demolded. If you pour resin into a recently Quick Release sprayed mold----it will cause some setting issues (along with cellophane looking resin).
It's Ghazkulls bolter arm. Blown up fullsize with a macro lense and flash.
That sprue really is bad. The rest of the parts haven't got the gunk, but are severely misaligned. Only on that sprue though. Guess it was the last lemon of the batch or something.
EDIT
I spoke to the salesdude about just this thing. He was very upfront with me taking it back if I found anything I wasn't pleased with. Just as usual. If I hadn't been in a hurry (had all of 5 minutes in the GW-store before I had to run to the train) I would've opened it up in the store.
I constantly see the same problems in ALL these reviews... You dont even need to read, just looking at pictures you are clarified.
Damn.
Edit: on the review he refered something about the ratio and mould material on blisters
It took 6 packs to get this model, which was the least affected of the bunch. Several of the rejected models actually had mould material stuck to them
Still I have to wonder why this guy payed the money for it. Whether it takes 1, 6 or 20 packs, you can clearly look inside to check out the quality of the front & sides of the miniature at least, so if there is no acceptable cast among them then don't buy any at all. And don't buy anything unseen if you want to be sure you don't get a miscast. Simple as that.
Obviously it sucks, but it's his own fault that he still made the purchase.
If he bought it for reviewing purpose only, then why would anyone want to waste their money just to review a miniature you know is defective before buying it. I'm sure there were miniatures other than 6 defective Sterns around @ Warhammer World which were cast perfectly fine, but yet he chose to review a flawed one instead.
Nope - I went out, explicitly to pick up a Stern. I have a metal GKT squad and two full squads of metal PAGK that I neglected to get an HQ for. Stern 'completes the set'.
The mini I picked up has flaws, sure - but nothing I wouldn't actually expect in a high-end aimed resin (eg Forgeworld). After 20 years modelling I know more than enough tricks to fix it without tears. It's in a state out of the pack where taking it back would be more effort than doing the fixes.
Incidentally I reckon about a 90% 'fail rate' (to my somewhat exacting standard) on what was on the shelf. Sure there were things like the Commissar that seemed quite nicely cast, but at the end of the day, I don't need a Commissar.
Edit: I did not buy 6 minis to get this one. The clear packaging is good like that - you can take a look and see if it's duff. However when I told the shop guy that the rest were miscast he said he'd have a look later. This said the store was rammed, (as it often is on a Saturday) and I doubt he had a chance.
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:From what Watching Paint Dry said on a video review (in another thread? I'm getting confused) there is a bit of shrinkage with metal as it cools.
Plastic resin doesn't which is why it retains the crispness of detail, and maybe why the staff is a tad taller.
Totally agree Mr P
Yep, this thread.
I didn't see any sign of mold release on my stuff or anything bad other than a few bubbles. Compared to metal its light years ahead. Hopefully everybody who got a bad one gets a refund or exchange. From the models I've seen opened the quality is really great.
The mek had the most air bubbles of the four models I bought. Nothing that can't be filled though.
The doc had a lot of pipes for resin to flow through. I cut off the tip of the syringe on the buzzsaw arm accidentally, thinking it was another pipe. Easy enough to fix with a pin, but I didn't want people to think it was miscast and missing the needle.
There's a lot more flash in the slottabase with these finecast models...
I don't know if I got super-lucky with the ones I picked, or if the miscasts are more vocal. I didn't even really check the packs before I bought them (though I did make sure to open them before leaving the store), and I have no issues that cannot be addressed simply with a little model prep.
I got Grimgor Ironhide and the Chaos Khornes Exalted Hero. The skull on the pommel of Grimgor's short sword is missing a little bit at the side and some of the skulls on the Chaos Hero are a bit iffy but I think that's down to the medium being more unforgiving than metal. I was never that fussed about metal casts and neither of these issues are enough for me to ask for an exchange. some of the extreme pics here are a little worrying but I'd expect to see a few problem miniatures on the launch day. If it was 10% I'd be concerned but it does't seem that way. I will be looking carefully at any future purchases but I am not overly concerned. As long as the major detail on faces, weapons and shields are ok then I'm not that fussed.
Redbeard wrote:
I don't know if I got super-lucky with the ones I picked, or if the miscasts are more vocal. I didn't even really check the packs before I bought them (though I did make sure to open them before leaving the store), and I have no issues that cannot be addressed simply with a little model prep.
QFT.
I had the same experience with the Marneus Calgar box.
I have had some trouble with Chaplains -1 Had bottom of Crosiarch (wrong spelling. Should have just put power weapon) missing.
So the GW manager Gave me a Second and that had some problems with the shoulder pad and the Crosiarch (Seriously) but They where sorted by some green stuff.
People who whine about the Finecast models - Why? So what you have to spend a few more minutes fixing something but A - These are GW first Batch so they are a test Run. B - YOU will buy these models when you want a character or something so deal with it. And C - Stop finding the bad stuff and thinking its the end of the goddamn world.
KnightOfTheRaven wrote:People who whine about the Finecast models - Why? So what you have to spend a few more minutes fixing something but A - These are GW first Batch so they are a test Run. B - YOU will buy these models when you want a character or something so deal with it. And C - Stop finding the bad stuff and thinking its the end of the goddamn world.
bs my boy. When I want a mini I want a good one, as advertised, none of that "oh please, have mercy on us, this is a rushed product and a TEST batch so here have a new blister that might be better or not" gak. This is goddamn Games Workshop we're talking about, not melon-fething Forge World.
Well my friends the far away or blurred pictures on the folks claiming the casts are "good" ( actually everyone on those seem to say its a good cast and then say but the bubles in it ) and the in your face HD pics on the folks claiming the casts are not that good doesnt really leave me much space for doubts IMO.
The thing I was most afraid off with this switch was that if these would look like FW stuff and guess what, they do and in some pictures they are even worse... I'm trully gutted here, really sad day.
Getting these on a online store would be an all new nightmare since I cant check the blisters in person, guess I will skip these as much as I can.
I go back to my collection and see stuff 8 or more years ago in resin crispy clear from other manufacturers, today the crispy resins are the standart not the exception... Dont know what else to say but I'm a sad bug here looking at those nids in finecast.
These models, the clients and GW deserved better than this quality standart... or lack of it.
Brook - I felt annoyed when i had problems with the finecast. And I know GW should have done better But your saying FW is bad. facepalm I havent had anything bad from them yet.
The point im trying to make is If you think its so bad. Make your own models and then say that its rubbish.
KnightOfTheRaven wrote:Brook - I felt annoyed when i had problems with the finecast. And I know GW should have done better But your saying FW is bad. facepalm I havent had anything bad from them yet.
The point im trying to make is If you think its so bad. Make your own models and then say that its rubbish.
Did you join this site just to complain about people complaining?
Kanluwen wrote:I cheat these days. I have an ultrasonic cleaner that I bought myself for Christmas and I use that. Little bit of cool water and dish soap and voila, everything's clean in a 5 minute cycle.
Hmm, there's one I never heard of. Looks like they run about $36 on Amazon, right? Have you tried greasy resin in it? Because that sounds like a worthwhile purchase.
I use mine to clean pistols with, so gun oil, grease, spent powder works like a charm.
KnightOfTheRaven wrote:Brook - I felt annoyed when i had problems with the finecast. And I know GW should have done better But your saying FW is bad. facepalm I havent had anything bad from them yet.
The point im trying to make is If you think its so bad. Make your own models and then say that its rubbish.
I HAVE made my own models, and these look like rubbish to me. Anybody with some resin, a pressure pot and half a brain can do a better job than that. The reason people are angry is that they hiked the price on already ridiculously expensive models, and the quality is far, far worse. You're paying GW to kick you in the balls.
xxvaderxx wrote:From what i read so far, this models are terrible.
They are soft plastic, which means a- they are not going to last, b- bent parts cant be straightened and c- paint is going to fall off them.
A Dunno about that
B Absolutely wrong. I just recently straightened the sword on my Emperors Champion with some hot tap water. No sort of memory effect and it turned soft pretty quick. Very easy to work with.
C depends a lot on your prep-work and/if you chew on your painted minis (Eldar taste a little better than Chaos Marines, usually)
I think as so often there is a bit of extremism going on from both ends of the spectrum.
Clearly there are some defects in some of the examples but overall the models are not "terrible". Metal also suffers from occasional casting problems and sometimes needs to be filled with putty. People should check their purchases and return badly defective samples for a refund.
The resin will cement easily and is much softer to cut for conversions. It may flake paint if flexed during games, only experience will tell us.
I'm not convinced about the claim that detail is much superior to metal. I have too many Infinity and Studio McVey models to think that metal and resin can't display equally good detail.
GW are uping the price of their models, yet you have to do more work with them!?! Since when is it ok to have to "filll in the small air holes" or "wash the model" before painting? Why should people even feel the need to suggest an ultrasonic cleaner, even though it is a useful tip.
I'm absolutely gobsmacked that people are even saying these things. "A little bit of filler and it will be ok". Are you bloody mad? They tell us it's a cheaper material, but up the price and then produce models that have more flaws than the metal figures.
Came back from the local gw store a bit earlier, got Coteaz, the jump chaplain and the shokk gun big mek. I was hoping for a sm captain in termie armor since i have a metal unassembled one in order to compare but the store guys couldn't tell me when they'd receive the other models at all.
I'm kinda new at this and only had plastic/metal minis until now so I don't know what to look for in resin flaws but the details do stand out more on the finecast side (thought i lack the side by side shot). What I can say though is the big mek has holes in the shoulder that holds the gun itself. I suppose it's fixable but still, a friggin 32,5€ mini. The chaplain's crozius is slightly bent, there's white residue on a few pieces, mainly Coteaz and a few bits here and there on the others, i guess cleaning is in order. Speaking of the lovely inquisitor, the store owner replaced the one I had picked up initially as the eagle was missing a beak. The new one I got has it sporting a 3rd wing made of flash There's LOOOTS of it all over.
I took some macro shots of the untouched sprues I could upload if people want those models but would rather look at them first.
I wanted those models and do not like metal, but I expected more of this new line of products. The price hike and the ridiculous amount of chest bumping GW makes of this release adds even more ridicule to it imo.
Kilkrazy wrote:It's not unusual to have to fill and clean metal, resin or plastic models, especially GW kits which often aren't very well designed and moulded.
I don't think the Finecast resin is significantly worse in that respect.
I agree there is an issue with them describing the models as the best in the world. They aren't. But they aren't terrible, either.
Are you sure? In all the time that I played with GW models I think I must of come across about half a dozen faulty models and they were proper miscasts. The only time I've had to fil a model was if it was resin. Which is fine, as you except that this is the case with resin, but given the decription so far on these models and what they are supposed to represent, I'm not impressed.
Even back when I bought RTB01 you were advised to clean your minis before painting them. As well as filling any gaps or defects with Milliput (no green stuff back then) or similar. It's weird you haven't heard of that until now.
Kanluwen wrote:
They can do better, but they haven't been doing that good even in metal. To pretend that this is somehow 'omg how could this happen!' when it's a new medium is ridiculous.
Really? Because I have 200 sisters of battle that say otherwise. Painted even. I say they are doing better in metal then you claim.
Kilkrazy wrote:It's not unusual to have to fill and clean metal, resin or plastic models, especially GW kits which often aren't very well designed and moulded.
I don't think the Finecast resin is significantly worse in that respect.
I agree there is an issue with them describing the models as the best in the world. They aren't. But they aren't terrible, either.
Are you sure? In all the time that I played with GW models I think I must of come across about half a dozen faulty models and they were proper miscasts. The only time I've had to fil a model was if it was resin. Which is fine, as you except that this is the case with resin, but given the decription so far on these models and what they are supposed to represent, I'm not impressed.
Krootoxen, Tau Devilfish and Hammerheads. Tau Battlesuits and SM Land Speeders are notorious for the poor quality of moulding. It's a pretty widespread problem.
The Zoanthrope and Venomthrope models need some filling though you can get away with just Araldite if you are careful.
I think any long time modeller must have had to deal with some kind of issue. Some companies like Tamiya are top notch but GW, old time Airfix and some of the new eastern bloc companies are fairly poor.
I agree with the point about the description being misleading.
People who whine about the Finecast models - Why? So what you have to spend a few more minutes fixing something but A - These are GW first Batch so they are a test Run. B - YOU will buy these models when you want a character or something so deal with it. And C - Stop finding the bad stuff and thinking its the end of the goddamn world.
A: Depends what it is that is wrong and whether or not someone has the necessary skills to fix it.
Why are GW selling a test run at more than the metal cost ? That raises more questions about GW than you have answered. Including, if I spend 15 smackers on a single figure, I "goddam" expect better than having chunks missing and it shouldn't need fixing in the first place.
B: I WON'T buy these models if I want a character and don't tell me to deal with it Sonnyjim
C: If GW were not selling rejects at full cost there would not be anything to find
D: Why is it, that people,on seeing something they disagree with, feel compelled to dismiss the statement by calling it whining/bitching etc?
E: In any case I never whine, I grump. At my age it is a pre requisite, so "deal with it" and stop finding BAD STUFF to whine about.
We had the start of the end of the world last week. Pity you weren't here in time for the party. It was a hoot!
I got a Finecast techmarine today and and was really impressed with the detail but also how easy it is to convert. The only problem was mine was a slight loss of detail on the servo-harness's flamer, however the store manager swiftly opened a whole new pack and presented me with a new flamer.
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:
C: If GW were not selling rejects at full cost there would not be anything to find
Yeah, right.
GW could be giving them away and people would complain about it.
Just like if they had done what someone suggested earlier and given White Dwarf subscribers a free FineCast model--it inevitably would have been people complaining "I don't play X, they gave me X! They should have given me Y, the tools!".
Kilkrazy wrote:It's not unusual to have to fill and clean metal, resin or plastic models, especially GW kits which often aren't very well designed and moulded.
I don't think the Finecast resin is significantly worse in that respect.
I agree there is an issue with them describing the models as the best in the world. They aren't. But they aren't terrible, either.
Are you sure? In all the time that I played with GW models I think I must of come across about half a dozen faulty models and they were proper miscasts. The only time I've had to fil a model was if it was resin. Which is fine, as you except that this is the case with resin, but given the decription so far on these models and what they are supposed to represent, I'm not impressed.
In over 10,000pts of metal models (at least 6,000pts of which I still own), I've never had a casting defect with a metal GW model. While I've consistently complained about their price increases and business decisions, I've never complained about the quality of their metal casting (the sculpting is occasionally ugly but the casting of that ugly sculpt has always been dead on). The only thing that ever bothered me with one of their metals was the large amount of the little metal tags/pips that are easily removed but also easily missed (I tend to notice a third of them only AFTER priming). My 80 fig 2nd/3rd edition metal marine army has no plastic figs and no defects... my old 60 fig 2nd edition IG army had no defects. I'm glad that not *ALL* the figs have FW level defects in casting (which should have been caught during packaging or some other QA step), the pics I've seen posted in these threads indicate a definite decrease in the overall level of quality. It may not be the end of the world but that aspect is certainly worse. Is the increased chance of a miscast plus higher cost counterbalanced by a material that is easier to work with and more accident resistant? That's an individual decsion with no right or wrong answer globally.
The line that people will complain if GW gives things away is not going to wash. It does not counter the fact that if these are indeed only the product of a test run, then GW are being disingenuous and fraudulent knowingly selling faulty goods as being in good order.
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Read the post that I quoted.
These are GW first Batch so they are a test Run
The line that people will complain if GW gives things away is hypothetical.
People complained when the two free AoBR models were in White Dwarf. People complained about the 'free' veteran sergeant(powerfist raised over his head, beaky helmet, storm bolter and wearing 'Sternguard' styled armor) that came free with every $60 or more order from GW's webstore a few years back.
It does not counter the fact that if these are indeed only the product of a test run, then GW are being disingenuous and fraudulent knowingly selling faulty goods as being in good order.
If they were in fact the product of a first test run that should not have been sold, then yes GW will have to put up with the bad press. I'm not thinking that's the case here, however, and it simply just results from a perfect storm of overworked packers, GW painting themselves into a corner with a ridiculously stupid deadline for revamping their entire range of metal models currently in full scale production, and not properly doing test runs before full casting runs were started.
TL;DR version for you lot who will love to quote me out of context: GW's too stupid to do test runs and is more likely to just push product out the door to ensure the shinies get out to the masses.
Of course I don't think that is the case either Kanners and the problem is you were quoting me out of context, which suggests that I do.
I am in agreement with the rushed deadline issue and GW not going through the process more methodically than they seeemed to have done.
People complained? How many? rhetorical question as am sure you weren't counting. People can be lots or a few. There will always be some complaints, just don't drag the argument out everytime.
If some did complain at freebies then for shame. Let them send the freebies to me, I ain't so proud as to look a gift marine in the helmet
(Why does that sound so wrong?) or is it better that I don't look a marine in the helmet?
I don't know about the stripping, you might find that the resin is discoloured from the primer but I can't see there being too many problems using poducts safe with plastic. I picked up an Astorath and it has no problems what so ever. WHW was pretty spare of blisters by the time I left today.
I can't wait for the finecast range! Loads of models that I haven't bought due to them being metal and hard to assemble have been re-made into this, hopefully easier to assemble, resin. Also, the detail is stunning! They're not as expensive as I thought they'd be either
KnightOfTheRaven wrote:
The point im trying to make is If you think its so bad. Make your own models and then say that its rubbish.
This is one of the most ridiculous defenses of the GW apologists I have read. And it almost always comes up at least once.
You bought a lemon off a car lot? Well, make your own car, then you can complain! Really? I don't want to make my own miniatures. I want to pay someone a premium price to make nice miniatures for me. That means I can't be unhappy with the result because I don't make my own? Welcome to Logic 101.
And what is all the crap about it being a 'test batch'? Did we hear any of that from GW.com? No, you know what we heard? We heard about the most detailed, finely crafted models that will revolutionize the industry. And you're defending it as if it were a 'test batch'. Why would a 'test batch' be sold as product anyway? Do video game companies sell Alphas in the box? If you bought Dawn of War II Alpha and nothing had skins on it and the controls didn't work, would you say, "Well, it's just the Alpha batch. I'm sure it'll get better."
That's right, you can't complain because you don't program video games.
As promised, some pics and words on the finecast carnosaur. (i will also post this in the other thread)
First, the pics:
Ok i hope i did that right and the images show up
So thoughts from that.
The good:
* Looking over the carnosaur, fairly quickly, while I did notice a couple mold lines, nothing big that I can't fix up. Similar to mold lines on FW stuff and other resin models I've gotten before (although not as clean as the Ilyad resin minotaur i got some time ago)
* the scales and teeth ARE better defined and the edges are sharper (see note below in "the bad" section)
* model is of course lighter (big plus for those of us who carry lots of models around whenever we go play)
* the ropes that hold some of the armour onto the dinosaur ARE better defined (see note below in "the bad" section") which is good
* areas before, where metal filled in gaps between claws, and thus it was hard to remove it to make the claws defined individually have the same issue BUT now can easily be fixed since this plesin is much easier to cut/remove/sand, etc (plesin = plastic resin)
* the teeth and eye area on kroq-gar himself are very well defined (his teeth are very sharp, where the metal ones just aren't as sharp, but they are still fairly well defined on the metal version)
* NO miscast areas, NO distorted areas (even the weapon shaft is the same as the metal one, which already had slight bend in it so this is the same), and no missing areas (like the librarian foot area) -- probably the best finecast model reviewed so far in terms of damage/distortion/etc
the bad:
* while the teeth, scale edges, etc are better defined, i'm not sure this matters. Most animal scales aren't as sharply defined as a metal blade... i don't think this will matter to most people
* there is one small air bubble area below the nose plates, above the teeth/gumline. BUT due to the textures on the carnosaur face area, it actually doesn't look out of place so I may just leave it
* there was a bit of rubber stuck in that air bubble gap. wasn't easy to remove it...it kept elastically springing back (had to use 2 sharp knife blades as chop sticks to remove it)
* the ropes on the metal version were already well defined; i can see each rope strand already, so while this is sharper, it won't make much difference to most people (ie. if you enter golden demons, I would suggest using this finecast carnosaur instead of the metal one; if you play games and just games, get whichever is cheaper, unless weight is an issue for your carry case)
* the way the sprues are made, lots of areas to cut and sand but the actual gates, etc do not go into the detail so once you cut/sand it off, no issues
I can add more comments later, if people ask for specifics -- from someone who is more of a painter, commission painter, and D&D player (ie. i like monsters) , I think finecast is great for larger models. monsters, etc don't have as much fidly details that can get ruined (as we see with stern, librarian, etc) and the sharper details on teeth, eye sockets, etc does make that slight difference. Being lighter makes me along happy with this plesin version.
BUT, I did check out an opened nurgle daemon prince (the cool fat one from few years ago)...while I could see some better details on the arms, etc (I've painted 2 metal ones before, so am familiar with the model), there were some areas where cleaning up mold lines, etc, unless you are very experienced, will cause model damage.
A final comment: I do not think this is for inexperienced modellers. The very fact that the store kept stressing to me, not to use files, etc (NOTE: i tried a file on it, it's fine as long as you are gentle) makes me feel that you have to be very careful with these. Some models people had, mold lines were in areas that a slight error and well, you better be a decent sculptor I would not give this to a younger sibling to work from scratch. I would clean it up first; wash it, etc, sand it, file it, whatever you want...THEN cut it up and modify as they want and give to them to paint instead. The risk of damage, IMHO, is too high, for those who aren't used to cutting up costly FW models or other european collector company models. (for example, mine has a mold line over the nose armour and snout area...if you screw that up, you can damage part of the head as it's quite a visible and large mold line. For me, it's easy to remove and any damage, I can easily resculpt it (Note, I'm not a good sculptor like Allan C or Remy Tremblant or something, but I'm sure I'd be considered an advanced modeller/painter), but i'd feel bad if due to my comments, someone thought it was ok to buy the model and started working on it in a rush without assessing it completely first with close inspection and planning what to do and how to do it. PLEASE ASSESS THE MODEL FIRST...ALL ANGLES, etc. The way you would a hot girl hehehe
So, I would like to pick up some more models, but will only due so online or from retailers with the normal discount. i really think I got one of the better casts here; as most people seem to be having issues but again, i think that is cause large monsters probably cast easier.
Ask away if you need more details...I'll check again incase I missed a huge error in the cast, but i didn't see one yet.
NOTE: the mold line over the nose, I didn't label that as a BAD, cause with all the mold lines I've seen in different types of models, it's almost always gonna go over some important section; the fact that mold lines exist, we can't really help, so that to me is nothing extra bad.
Ouze wrote:It looks like at least some of the worst miscasting was on the backs of the feet, which are obscured by the front of the packaging. Also, I think you're assuming he bought 6, and I think what he meant was, he had them open 6 until he found this one, which was the best.
Lmao, that is not what I assumed at all
He obviously inspected 6 blisters and bought the "best" one. What I said is that is doesn't matter if you check 1, 6 or 20 blisters, if they are all unacceptable then there should be 0 purchases IMO. Those pictures show so much wrong with the front of that miniature to make it's backside irrelevant.
If everybody will just refuse to buy and/or send back unacceptable casts, and there really are that many of them as claimed, then GW should definitely take notice.
I've seen two boxes of Incubi that were missing an entire model. Fortunately the Bunker gave me one of theirs as a replacement. No miscasts in them that I've noticed, so that's good.
I got Astorath today, and I have to say that I'm absolutely blown away by it! The details and crispness of the ridged armour is like nothing I've ever seen before. I didn't check the model before I bought it, but I have to say that I honestly can't see anything at all wrong with my purchase. I'm really really pleased and certainly look forward to getting more Citadel Finecast models.
However, I do happen to know that of the 6 clam packs of the Jump Pack Chaplain which my store received, they were all bought and subsequently returned by the same person due to casting defects. In the end the store let him keep the model and replaced it with the Librarian. He wasn't at all happy.
im lost for words as i hang my head in disapointment.
so heres what im gathering, go to your local store, find the model you whant and the other five blisters of the same model, go through them make one complete model from your findings in those 5 blister packs.
at this point, you should have a good model,take the other shotty models to the front desk tell the clerk to send them back due to failed molds.
so.....buying gw products have become a war game in themselves.
hope this is just a first batch flaw,and they get better.
thanks for this thread
im a very sad ork player was really hopeing to get gaz in a light weight resin............ :(
pixelpusher wrote:Even back when I bought RTB01 you were advised to clean your minis before painting them. As well as filling any gaps or defects with Milliput (no green stuff back then) or similar. It's weird you haven't heard of that until now.
That was nearly 25 years ago, this is now! GW are now (if you have not heard of this until now ) a huge billion-pound multinational company with over 30 years of reputation to live up to. These defects should have been sorted out ages ago.
Also, if I hear one more mention of "crisp" i'm going to storm GWHQ with a sock full of several metal Stegadons and 6th ed. Steam Tanks. Iverald on Warseer explains the scoptoma going on here:
mechanicalhorizon do correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the impression of "crisp" detail (sorry, Korraz ) is caused by three factors:
1) Remade moulds (just an assumption of mine) this may be true in the case of older models which had not their moulds replaced, resulting in decreased detail definition. My Coteaz, repackaged for the release of new C:GK had awfully grainy/rough surfaces where they should be smooth. New Failcast moulds fixed this problem, hence one impression factor.
2) Probably the most important one, the colour. Grey is, for all intents and purposes neutral, giving a much better contrast than unpainted metallic surfaces and therefore creating an illusion of increased depth and making details more visible. Many world-class miniature painters use grey primers, one of the reasons for this is exactly the increased contrast making it easier to give the model the desired lighting.
3) Inextricably connected with 2), the porousness. A resin miniature refracts light very differently than a metallic surface, which sometimes comes out smooth, reflecting light rather than refracting it. Result? Same as in 2).
In conclusion, probably the most fair way to compare metal and resin miniatures (that are not miscast) is to lightly prime them grey (not obscuring detail), so we can get an uniform colour and similar visual properties.
If there is any physicist out there please feel free to bash me for any misconceptions above.
Agreed with that quote from warseer. As I was reading the lizardman model review I was thinking to myself how much easier it would be if it was primed grey.
ph34r wrote:Agreed with that quote from warseer. As I was reading the lizardman model review I was thinking to myself how much easier it would be if it was primed grey.
Agreed, take a look at this Warseer thread about a frigging Piscean Warrior from RT. One of the posters notes how much detail on the model was unseen until a painted version was shown.
So much for "crispness" if a near 25 year old metal model simply looks less detailed due to being made of a reflective material. Go figure.
ph34r - yes, as i took the shots, i realized that metal doesn't photograph well.
What I did for the edges, was i ran a brush and blade against the scales and then with a quick nudge, it feels like it was almost catching on the edge. That implied, to me, a sharper edge than a rounded, softer one.
and looking VERY closely at it, you can see that they are sharper even though the pics don't shot it well.
However, while I like that added, detail it's not THAT big a deal i think. It can be if all you care about is the best possible cast/detail. Overall, if you like metal, this won't make you change your mind. The models aren't THAT different.
All these reports about miscasts make me seriously want to stay away from these at least until the situation goes back to normal. I just cant imagine the hassle I'd have to go through if I wanted to return a mini to them if it was miscast, since we don't have an official GW shop here.
@StarFyre Thanks for the review mate, got to be the most informed review so far and it gives me a bit of hope in the future of this line... In a world of bad reviews is good to see a decent cast and a positive transition from metal to resin ( I believe bigger and bulkier miniatures are the way to go with this material).
I like to see that the other side of the coin is still present on this range and that not everything was badly casted.
size compare: maybe it's just me...but they appear the same size... i don't have proper tools for fine measurement here, so can't help for exact measurements.
I would say they are the same size or VERY close.
Oh, another BAD:
I kinda got this pt across but diidn't say it outright.
As i clean up the mold lines, this plesin is even more fragile than i thought. No, i did not mess up, but it takes so little force, even for the thicker mold lines. This is good for me, easier to clean up mold issues, but bad for those who are impatient or inexperienced.
People like Navarro prob won't care - good enough to be able to deal with any material he is given.
KnightOfTheRaven wrote:People who whine about the Finecast models - Why? So what you have to spend a few more minutes fixing something but A - These are GW first Batch so they are a test Run. B - YOU will buy these models when you want a character or something so deal with it. And C - Stop finding the bad stuff and thinking its the end of the goddamn world.
Troll. He's got four posts and he's spewing garbage like this? I'm calling it.
Either that or he's a kid, and doesn't understand that companies are required by law to replace faulty or defective product, and that as a paying customer I have a right to complain if a product doesn't live up to it's name and the quality isn't up to the level promised to me. This isn't a case of poor little GW getting picked on by the big bad fanbase, they aren't worth sticking up for here and we're not the bad guys.
Tried to keep up with this thread, read every post up til page 15 but, after that I've just skimmed to pictures.
There's something I'd like to see, that, I would do if I didn't have to wait to get paid, but if someone *could* (Don't go out of your way) - Could you post up a cleaned up + primed black (or white) miniature in both Metal + "Finecast" - Don't tell us which one is which, just call it Model A and Model B. See how many people can guess correctly.
I'd be interested to see, once the pictures are "fair" being the same colour, if there is enough difference that we can tell, or whether they are the same.
I found the emphasis by GW not to use metal files on the Finecast product to be a little perplexing. I use a metal file on both their plastic and metal models so when I read that I was disappointed because I find a file to be the best way to get rid of certain types of mould lines. I picked up a Hive Guard model today from my LGS and tested out the file I had on the extra resin sprue. Didn't seem to do any major damage to the sprue so I tried it out on the model itself and it worked like a charm. I mean, I used way less pressure than I would on metal (and probably plastic too), but I don't understand why they emphasis not to use a metal file.
Otherwise, sort of a mixed bag for me. The lightness of the product is crazy - I am thinking four resin HGs would weigh less than one metal one. I noticed two bubbles/missing resin on the FC one and I don't recall any such issues with the metal one. Clean up was way faster on the FC one, and I only noticed about half as many "burrs" on the FC one. So well I don't mind the product, I don't know how GW is going off on how amazing it is. I guess they are trying to justify the insane price increases? The cost of the Hive Guard has gone from $24.00 to $29.75 which I think is a little insane.
It's like lipstic only you put it on your a...nyway you get the idea
Was invented by Mr Wells because he was so used to having people kiss his a...s before you get the picture.
I actually met Mr. Wells today... no joke,.. dropped into the Games Workshop Burton store because he didn't want to bother with the hassle at Warhammer World, and the manager at the Nottingham store was ill, so Burton was his 2nd closest. He's a real down to earth, genuinely nice guy. Bought a bunch of stuff too .
Kilkrazy wrote:
Clearly there are some defects in some of the examples but overall the models are not "terrible". Metal also suffers from occasional casting problems and sometimes needs to be filled with putty. People should check their purchases and return badly defective samples for a refund.
Yeah, having just done a bunch of metal models, I think that these are really a wash in terms of overall quality. Metal has some issues (pitting is one that I've noticed quite a bit of late in GW casts), resin has bubbles. You can work with either.
I'm not convinced about the claim that detail is much superior to metal. I have too many Infinity and Studio McVey models to think that metal and resin can't display equally good detail.
Looking side-by-side at the same model in new resin and old metal, the detail on the resin models is clearer. I have no qualms about making this statement. The detail on the new resin is sharper than on the same metal model painted too.
Wolfstan wrote:GW are uping the price of their models, yet you have to do more work with them!?! Since when is it ok to have to "filll in the small air holes" or "wash the model" before painting? Why should people even feel the need to suggest an ultrasonic cleaner, even though it is a useful tip.
I'm absolutely gobsmacked that people are even saying these things. "A little bit of filler and it will be ok". Are you bloody mad? They tell us it's a cheaper material, but up the price and then produce models that have more flaws than the metal figures.
They do not have more flaws, they have different flaws. I'm pretty experienced with modelling, it took me less time to prep the resin model than the metal one. Filling small air holes isn't a big deal. On metal models you have to drill pin holes. I wash all my metal models to get rid of mold release agents. The switch to resin here is a non-factor.
Kilkrazy wrote:I agree there is an issue with them describing the models as the best in the world. They aren't. But they aren't terrible, either.
They've got the sharpest detail on any mass produced figures that I've seen. McVey limited edition resin models and some FW models are roughly equal, in my opinion. If the definition of 'best of the world' is sharpest detail, then so be it. I think that avoiding casting errors should be considered though, and on that level, these aren't the best in the world. But, they're good. My friend picked up an ogre shaggoth (or some such thing) and he had no casting issues either, I got to see it when he stopped by for some gaming.
warboss wrote:
In over 10,000pts of metal models (at least 6,000pts of which I still own), I've never had a casting defect with a metal GW model. While I've consistently complained about their price increases and business decisions, I've never complained about the quality of their metal casting (the sculpting is occasionally ugly but the casting of that ugly sculpt has always been dead on). ...
Lucky you. I've had several. I've had pitting, most recently on the bottom of capes for crusaders. Pitting was also a problem with the metal juggernauts, behind the shoulderblades. They moved those to plastic though now. I've had molds that didn't fill in right, wires that did not fill or swords that had no tips. It happens. I never once had a problem that GW did not correct at their own cost. I've had miscasts from FW which they replaced without question. I've had missing parts in metal kits, and have been sent replacement kits at no cost. I've had miscasts replaced at no cost. I have no reason to believe that their policy will change in this regard.
Sarius wrote:Could you post up a cleaned up + primed black (or white) miniature in both Metal + "Finecast" - Don't tell us which one is which, just call it Model A and Model B. See how many people can guess correctly.
I am also curious, especially after seeing the Carnosaur..
I apologize if it was mentioned in one of the previous 19 or so pages of this topic (I have read up to about 10 give or take), but has anyone done a heat test on a FC model? Some of the concern of warping in a car or high heat has me a little worried. :-(
I apologize but I can't prime the metal carnosaur. It's for sale as an unpainted, basically new model...
BUT, if you live in Markham (toronto suburb), i can meet you sometime at a hobby shop (ie. Heroes World at hwy 7, warden) and show you the plesin version (yes, i shall keep saying plesin DAMNIT!)
Picked up a few models, will try to have pictures later, but the immediate post-mortem:
Draigo: Left arm had a wisp of essentially flash where the armored ridge across the top of the shoulder should be, and the top of the tilt wasn't fully formed. Storm bolter had a huge bubble obliterating one of its forward edged. Banner had multiple bubbles on the ]I[ icon. Body had bubbles along the feet and book, a bubble instead one one of the rivets in the chest reliquary, and another such rivet replaced by a fat needle vent.
Marneus Calgar and Honor Guard: Bubbles, tear out, and scrubbiness everywhere. MC's legs had a huge cluster of bubbles removing part of the armor plate on the left hip, and one of the reinforcing ribs in the leg was just a wisp. One honor guard had a mm or mote of mold shift along his arm. Banner bearer has by bubbles in the banner that destroy the shape of detail, and some of his rope detail was more like thin string. Just some of the highlights there.
Canis Wolfborn: opened two myself, store opened the other two, all bad. Huge air bubbles (as in as much as a half-inch long) on the underside of the wolf. Armor ridging with gaps and breaks. Significant shift across detail (face, the skull on one of the wolf's shin plates). Blank junk material trapped in one of the blades of a wolf claw. The gem on Canis's belt disappearing into a wedge of tear out. The bones on one backpack not completely filled, and on the other the interior part of the "bone halo" is this filled in mess of junk. A brief perusal of blisters on the shelf turned up plenty of other significant issues: Huron with the bottom third of the round vents on his backpack gone. Logan with air bubbles destroying parts of his wolf bling and the arm of the wolf belt across his chest. Astorath with a torn out lump for his left eye. Stern with a solid lump between the back of his head and his armor, in one case with a nice lump of mold rubber wedged in there. In fact, I'd say at least 1 in 4, if not 1 in 3, of the models I looked at had at least some bit of mold material stuck to them.
You know what? I can just imagine the consternation if my wife were to read this thread. She already finds the hobby baffling (despite my best efforts) but to countenance paying £10-£15 for a single model? Even if it were sculpted out of solidified unicorn tears, it would make the parting of money difficult.
I know its trite and a terrible cliche but if I were 11 years old again, I would be saying 'feth this, I'm getting an xbox game instead'. Not sure how GW can justify growth in the business at these prices, quality of casts notwithstanding. Its fething plastic for crying out loud....
filbert wrote:You know what? I can just imagine the consternation if my wife were to read this thread. She already finds the hobby baffling (despite my best efforts) but to countenance paying £10-£15 for a single model? Even if it were sculpted out of solidified unicorn tears, it would make the parting of money difficult.
I know its trite and a terrible cliche but if I were 11 years old again, I would be saying 'feth this, I'm getting an xbox game instead'. Not sure how GW can justify growth in the business at these prices, quality of casts notwithstanding. Its fething plastic for crying out loud....
According to GW, video games core console + game = $500, which you can have warhammer full army for that same price.
And each game you play for 1 month before you dont need it anymore , but warhammer you can play it forever.
Which makes no sense to me. How do they assume that?
Maybe i can play my video game forever and i get bored of my warhammer army in 1 month?
filbert wrote:I know its trite and a terrible cliche but if I were 11 years old again, I would be saying 'feth this, I'm getting an xbox game instead'. Not sure how GW can justify growth in the business at these prices, quality of casts notwithstanding. Its fething plastic for crying out loud....
Video games are in no way cheaper. Most of them offer only a single player campaign around 7-8 hours long, which is not worth replaying. Very few offer multiplayer worth playing. Once you figure out that you're buying a video game at least once every month because these days they have no losting value whatsoever, you notice it is expensive. I should know, after spending about $10,000au on games and systems over the last 3-4 years.
Wargaming, even GW wargaming, does have some pretty good value for money, considering that 2000 point army in your cupboard doesn't have to be completely replaced regularly.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
LunaHound wrote:
filbert wrote:You know what? I can just imagine the consternation if my wife were to read this thread. She already finds the hobby baffling (despite my best efforts) but to countenance paying £10-£15 for a single model? Even if it were sculpted out of solidified unicorn tears, it would make the parting of money difficult.
I know its trite and a terrible cliche but if I were 11 years old again, I would be saying 'feth this, I'm getting an xbox game instead'. Not sure how GW can justify growth in the business at these prices, quality of casts notwithstanding. Its fething plastic for crying out loud....
According to GW, video games core console + game = $500, which you can have warhammer full army for that same price.
And each game you play for 1 month before you dont need it anymore , but warhammer you can play it forever.
Which makes no sense to me. How do they assume that?
Maybe i can play my video game forever and i get bored of my warhammer army in 1 month?
Ohh~ see what i did there GW?
Honestly, they have it right. See above. But then, I don't find any value at all in replaying a single player game I just finished.
filbert wrote:I know its trite and a terrible cliche but if I were 11 years old again, I would be saying 'feth this, I'm getting an xbox game instead'. Not sure how GW can justify growth in the business at these prices, quality of casts notwithstanding. Its fething plastic for crying out loud....
Video games are in no way cheaper. Most of them offer only a single player campaign around 7-8 hours long, which is not worth replaying. Very few offer multiplayer worth playing. Once you figure out that you're buying a video game at least once every month because these days they have no losting value whatsoever, you notice it is expensive. I should know, after spending about $12,000au on games and systems over the last 3-4 years.
Wargaming, even GW wargaming, does have some pretty good value for money, considering that 2000 point army in your cupboard doesn't have to be completely replaced regularly.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
LunaHound wrote:
filbert wrote:You know what? I can just imagine the consternation if my wife were to read this thread. She already finds the hobby baffling (despite my best efforts) but to countenance paying £10-£15 for a single model? Even if it were sculpted out of solidified unicorn tears, it would make the parting of money difficult.
I know its trite and a terrible cliche but if I were 11 years old again, I would be saying 'feth this, I'm getting an xbox game instead'. Not sure how GW can justify growth in the business at these prices, quality of casts notwithstanding. Its fething plastic for crying out loud....
According to GW, video games core console + game = $500, which you can have warhammer full army for that same price.
And each game you play for 1 month before you dont need it anymore , but warhammer you can play it forever.
Which makes no sense to me. How do they assume that?
Maybe i can play my video game forever and i get bored of my warhammer army in 1 month?
Ohh~ see what i did there GW?
Honestly, they have it right. See above. But then, I don't find any value at all in replaying a single player game I just finished.
-Each warhamer Unit cost the same as 1 brand new game
-7 to 8 hour game play? Wow the game i've played are over 50+ hours atleast , with Team Fortress 2 100+ hours
some people on Dakka played TF2 for 742.2 hrs on record. So yes i raise the 742 hours to counter your 7 hours.
LunaHound wrote:-Each warhamer Unit cost the same as 1 brand new game
Really? I mean, a Tactical squad is half the price of a video game over here. Horde army units tend to cost about the same though.
LunaHound wrote:-7 to 8 hour game play? Wow the game i've played are over 50+ hours atleast , with Team Fortress 2 100+ hours
some people on Dakka played TF2 for 742.2 hrs on record. So yes i raise the 742 hours to counter your 7 hours.
The same argument can be made for a unit of dudes in Warhammer. After you've played 20 or so games, you've got the same value to time spent using it ratio as you did spending 50 hours sitting there playing Team Fortress 2. The difference is every unit in your army gets that value, unlike video games only getting that out of multiplayer titles. Plus the hobby side, building and painting them, and you easily get more value out of a unit of warhammer dudes than a video game.
And, I also did mention multiplayer only titles being the exception. The very rare exception. The most recent Battlefield and Call of Duty titles, and the Valve multiplayer only titles, keep a healthly online community. Considering how many games are released per month, that's not a good percentage of games. Most are 7-8 hour single player games with no, or completely forgettable, multiplayer. The occasional open world game or RPG lasts about twice a normal game. And still, they're not as common anymore as the same old 7-8 hour shooterfest.
Really? I mean, a Tactical squad is half the price of a video game over here. Horde army units tend to cost about the same though.
Im glad you brought this point up because , Tac Squad in AUD is $62 , and why im glad? see below.
And, I also did mention multiplayer only titles being the exception. The very rare exception.
Which is very interesting since mostl single player focused games are infact CHEAPER than Tac squad ,
with the exception of Mulitplayer intended games which to be accurate with your "half the price of a video game"
Which you mention to be "rare exceptions" which again, are the ones with incredibly long hours of game play.
You cant simply substitute in the price of those rare exceptional games , and leave out the game hour's worth by then suddenly using a cheap single player game for comparison.
By doing that, it seems like you are conveniently subbing in and leaving out vital points just to attempt to favor GW.
LunaHound wrote:Which makes no sense to me. How do they assume that?
Maybe i can play my video game forever and i get bored of my warhammer army in 1 month?
Ohh~ see what i did there GW?
Idiots who don't know crap about gaming. A good game will last you more than a month, some of them you could potentially end up playing for years after the fact.
And yeah, not hard to get bored with 40k. I have almost no desire to play the game anymore after the many "FAAC vs. WAAC" debates that never stop, rules arguments which never stop because the game is poorly written and GW clearly doesn't give a damn (because they already have your money, it's all business remember?), the feeling of sticker shock every single time I browse the models at the store which ultimately leads to me walking out with nothing or cheap, used D&D 4th edition books or Magic cards instead. Literally the only thing keeping me in right now are the new Dark Eldar models, which were apparently so damn good it kept me around longer than I really wanted to be.
-Loki- wrote:
Honestly, they have it right. See above. But then, I don't find any value at all in replaying a single player game I just finished.
If only there was such a thing as multiplayer. But there's not, so every game I ever purchase is one player only...sad times.
EDIT: And if you seriously think that no single player game is worth playing for more than 7 hours then you need to look for better games, there's more than just movie tie-ins out there.
And as far as replacement goes, just wait until GW brings back that old rule about having to play with the latest models in order to play in their stores. And wait until everyone online tells you to shut up and deal with it because we owe GW sooo much.
Sidstyler wrote:If only there was such a thing as multiplayer. But there's not, so every game I ever purchase is one player only...sad times.
Which I mentioned. Good multiplayer games are an exception, not the rule, with video games. In fact, the good multiplayer games with healthy communities can be counted on two hands. There aren't many.
Sid, i took the time to compare to prices. see my edit before your pots.
Loki's example is flawed.
He used the multiplayer game's pricing , but leaves out multiplayer's game time ( he used the single player's 7-8 hour example ) which then is wrong since those games are again CHEAPER than a tactical squad.
Really? I mean, a Tactical squad is half the price of a video game over here. Horde army units tend to cost about the same though.
Im glad you brought this point up because , Tac Squad in AUD is $62 , and why im glad? see below.
And, I also did mention multiplayer only titles being the exception. The very rare exception.
Which is very interesting since mostl single player focused games are infact CHEAPER than Tac squad ,
with the exception of Mulitplayer intended games which to be accurate with your "half the price of a video game"
Which you mention to be "rare exceptions" which again, are the ones with incredibly long hours of game play.
You cant simply substitute in the price of those rare exceptional games , and leave out the game hour's worth by then suddenly using a cheap single player game for comparison.
By doing that, it seems like you are conveniently subbing in and leaving out vital points just to attempt to favor GW.
:3 see what i did thar?
Recommended retail price for video games for PS3 and 360 in Australia sits at $110au. Wii games for $100au. PC games at $90au. I realize now the recent price hike made Tactical squads $62au, but they're far from cheaper at RRP.
About multiplayer games - you keep overlooking the fact that Wargames are multiplayer games as well. All of the value perks you give multiplayer games can be applied to wargames, even GW games, with the one beneficial exception that wargames get - your whole collection gets those value perks you list, unlike just the rare, good multiplayer games.
I wasn't overlooking the value perks of multiplayer games because I assumed you understood that wargamers were multiplayer as well.
Recommended retail price for video games for PS3 and 360 in Australia sits at $110au. Wii games for $100au. PC games at $90au. I realize now the recent price hike made Tactical squads $62au, but they're far from cheaper at RRP.
Loki , i looked through your EB AUS price list.
Unless you are telling me they priced it wrong? Then im right.
About multiplayer games - you keep overlooking the fact that Wargames are multiplayer games as well. All of the value perks you give multiplayer games can be applied to wargames, even GW games, with the one beneficial exception that wargames get - your whole collection gets those value perks you list, unlike just the rare, good multiplayer games.
I think you are misunderstanding something. Nowhere did i ever mention warhammer isnt a multiplayer game ( whens the last someone played with themselves? lol )
My POINT IS, to a videogame , thats where the price difference and extra values came from.
You conveniently quotes a video game's price ( which is higher for multiplayer purpose games )
and conveniently left out the game time multiplayer have ( which is significantly GREATER than a normal single player game )
Well if we're going to keep this up then I'm going to say the single player for wargames sucks. At least with PC games I get to do something, with models I get to sit hunched over in a chair for hours at a time with a knife or brush cleaning/painting them, ruining my back and my eyesight, just so I don't get bitched at when I try to do the multiplayer.
Which is pointless because there's always something to get bitched at for. "You're playing _____, they're so broken!", "You're taking _____?! Cheese!" "You can't do that, that's not in the spirit of the rules, I don't care what the rulebook says!"
Anyway, I haven't had a chance to leave the house yet today, and I'm not sure if I'm going to after all since it's getting late so I probably won't be picking up that model after all.
This whole wargames versus videogames diversion is really boring. Somebody post comparisons of primered metal and finecast of the same mini, and get this thread back on track.
Commissar Calgar takes a look at the 'Finecost' Ork Shokk Attack Gun
Listen up men!
Central command and the Departmento Munitorium has seen fit to issue us all with our new 'Finecost' range of tactical planning miniatures. A whole range of these - Imperial paragons of virtue, heretics and aliens alike - all released in a rush of new pieces all on a single day with odd sales restrictions and enhanced levels of secrecy that puts even those Khorne-worshipping Grey Knights to shame!
But now that we have quite a few of them I thought it best to take a look at the one that was granted to a fellow Commissar of mine - a piece representing a vile Ork, this time one of their hideous 'Mechanics' with the vile Warp-magik cannon they call a 'Shokk Attack Gun'.
Upon receiving the piece both my comrade and myself were somewhat shocked to see that it was contained within a windowless package. We had heard stories and seen evidence that the forces of Chaos had been warping and air-bubble-ing and miscasting various other pieces within this range and wanted to see it before we bought it. None the less, my valiant friend said it was time to "put his Bolt pistol where his mouth is" and see if the new piece was as bad (or as good) as previously claimed. I readied my own Bolt Pistol in case I needed to enact summary execution upon him.
With the package opened we were greeted with three separate 'frames' made of this bizarre plastic-resin hybrid. Hybrids are naturally an enemy of the Emperor, so already our Bolt-Pistol fingers were twitching over the inherent Heresy, but a quick recital of the Emperor's Words of De-Spruing girded us against the machinations of the Enemy and we continued on.
What we found immediately was that the parts of this kit came away from the frame quite effortlessly. My fellow Commissar had spent the previous night removing full plastic parts from multiple Ork kits, and the strain was weighing upon his wrist. I offered to cut his hand off and replace it with a bionic at my next convenience, but he declined the offer. I'm unsure as to why. Does he doubt the purity of the machine?
With the parts removed from the frames, we looked at how flexible this ‘plastic-resin’ hybrid was by examining the sprues. The answer is that it was quite flexible – too flexible – as if Tzeentch himself were contorting and controlling every molecule within it. This extended to the pieces of the kit itself, and there was a certain level of ‘cheapness’ to the whole affair that lowered our spirits. Fear not, men, our faith in the Emperor did not waver – and we carried on.
Using a sanctified blade to clean the various parts was an easy enough task, and we were careful not to use too much pressure lest its clean surface be marred by imperfections. As far as general imperfections go the kits detail was crisp and clean, but we both acknowledged that the detail levels were not unexpected and comparisons to unadorned metal pieces would be unfair as metal pieces often reflect the light at odd angles making true inspection without ‘primer’ impossible. Our final verdict was that this pieces well detailed, but no more or less detailed than its previous metal counterpart.
The sacred unguents of adhesion were applied soon thereafter, and as the originator of this thread did comment, these pieces ‘loved’ the adhesive agent. Pieces went together very quickly – too quickly – as if Nurgle himself were causing the unguents to break down and lose their watery purity and become dried and hard. We asked our local Tech-Priest for some advise and he just shrugged his shoulders (I think they were shoulders…) and told us to move on. Cleary under the influence of some malevolent force, I executed him on the spot.
With the piece fully constructed we took note of the lightness of the piece – it weighs hardly anything. It is very light – too light – as if Slaanesh itself has removed the sense of gravity from our minds to create something that appears almost lighter than air. We consulted our local Preacher, and he led us in a seventeen-hour prayer ritual to cleanse the piece and ourselves of any taint. Satisfied that any taint had been removed, yet fearful that said taint may have passed onto the Preacher, I executed him on the spot.
With the piece complete we looked at it compared to other pieces. The detail was fine, as I mentioned, the weight was still somewhat disturbing, and there were hardly any defects beyond air-bubbles in various places (enough to be annoying, but not enough to warrant a return to the Munitorium Office at which it was purchased or to summary execute the staff that sold it to my friend). Our general feeling – and an Inquisitress in service to my comrade shared this feeling – is that these new pieces of a feeling of lower quality. ‘Tacky’ was the word used. Combined with central commands insistence that these tactical planning pieces are akin to the return of the Emperor I do have to question the loyalty (and sanity) of the scribes that constructed those release documents.
These pieces are in no way superior to what came before, the material being used is cheap and nasty, I doubt it will stand up to the rigours of temperature variation, and even if the pieces themselves do not distort what happens to the bonds between the pieces when it gets too hot or too cold?
The benefits of course were the weight. The old Shokk Attack Gun is a notoriously heavy piece, and the single join between the main body and the gun puts a lot of strain on itself simply due to the weight. No such problems exist here, meaning that aside from miscast and other cleaning issues, these new ‘Finecost’ pieces are tremendously easy to put together.
But, men, we were not done in our tests. One of the fallacious ‘What’s New Today’ missives mentioned how they had conducted a routine manual input stress test upon one of their new pieces – that is to say they had dropped it to see if it broke. We decided to do the same test.
First I took it upon myself to drop the Shokk Attack Gun from a height of about three feet onto carpet. It bounced with a slightly clicking noise, but did not come apart. My comrade then took the piece and dropped it onto hard tiles from a height of about five feet. It landed and clattered upon the ground and the total damage was that the piece was removed from the base, but the rest of the miniature stayed solid without breaking.
It means that these pieces, once stuck in place with simple adhesive unguents (not a single piece of Holy Green Stuff was used), will stay quite strong – too strong – as if Khorne himself was supporting the small plastic-resin hybrid and confounding our efforts to defeat him at every turn. As we had executed all that we could seek guidance from, and because neither of us really wanted to execute each other, we decided to move on.
Our final verdict:
This product is naught but an over-sold and over-hyped effort by Departmento Munitorium to push new models for a higher price point whilst they reap the substantial benefits of the cost cutting. The ‘resin-plastic’ hybrid substance feels cheap and tacky, has no weight or presence to it, and purchasing any more of these products would make me unclean in the eyes of the Emperor.
The benefits of this line though are obvious. The detail is not lost from the conversion from metal to this new substance, and the weight and its love of ‘super-glue’ make them very easy to assemble. I cannot stress that last part enough. The two of us spent the remainder of the day assembling full metal playing pieces and they took time, patience and a lot of Holy Green Stuff to complete. Had they been made of ‘Finecost’, they would have been completed within no time at all (at the expense of our souls, of course).
On a more neutral note, there were no serious defects within the kit we had. Some bubbling around the joints, but otherwise everything was well cast (even the banner pole was perfectly straight). None of that takes away from the serious issues we’ve seen in other pieces, but it does make us question if these defects are a normal facet of this new hybrid substance and production process or if it is simply a by-product of the Departmento Munitorium’s rush to release these so that they can make as many credits in the short term (as they always do) rather than focusing on the long-term growth and prosperity of the Imperium.
Final rating out of 10, if I have to give it a rating, is a solid 6: Above average. It is a perfectly serviceable playing piece marred by the cheapness of its material, the needlessly high cost point, and the fact that this new hybrid substance does not herald the return of the Emperor as the Departmento Munitorium would have us believe. It gets a point above average for the weight and strength – it will go together easily and is quite strong once together, though I doubt that strength will hold once environmental factors come into play.
And that is all I have to say on the matter.
Heresy abounds, and I have to reload my Bolt Pistol! - Commissar Mathias Calgar
Ignorant on some things sure, but not on this. You are the one that not only needs a history lesson, but also a lesson in manners. Just because people made cardboard titans didnt mean it was a sure thing for GW to make massive plastic models and price them at over $100 each. That was a pretty big gameble for them at the time, they didnt know how well the APOC set was going to sell, if its numbers were too soft they would had to of pulled the plug and take the loss. You cant look at how well APOC sells NOW and say nope, your a stupid head for saying it was a gamble then. So enjoy that high horse your sitting on and keep pretending your the king of right
While you whallow if your complaining and ignorance, let me give you a word: Armorcast. Back in the 90's they made all sorts of large vehicals from eldar titans to warhounds to reavers(and in a very very very limited run, imperator), along with great gargant, stompa, several Khorne vehicals and ork ones.
It was NOT a pretty big gamble at the time. Folks HAD large vehcials and models and were tapping into a market already there- they canceled the armorcast contract and then came forgeworld. perhaps you should look up history before making claims and being ignorant, instead of being insulting.
Funny that according to the reviews here it seems that the various SM armies are the ones with most defects. Rushed job when making the new molds or when casting them? Perhaps the other examples checked being bigger figures (UO, Carnosaurs) took better to the new material?
To me the quality it´s the most important point, I´m past the point where I got GW figures for gaming I went for substitutes long ago . Now I buy them because I fancy the sculpts like the new DE but if I have to deal with miscasted figures in a regular basis (especially with the high official prices in Japan) I´ll stop buying even those few.
pixelpusher wrote:Even back when I bought RTB01 you were advised to clean your minis before painting them. As well as filling any gaps or defects with Milliput (no green stuff back then) or similar. It's weird you haven't heard of that until now.
I still have a handfully of RTBO1 on sprue. I remember those days, dont remember alot of flaws that needed fixing.....but then again its 20 years ago....
I got a question what about
Ragnar Blackmane
Njal Stormcaller (Classic)
Wolf Priest Ulrik
Bjorn the Fell-Handed
Mephiston, Lord of Death(and Hugs)
Brother-Captain Tycho
Greater Daemon of Khorne, Nurgle, Tzeentch, and Slannesh
Ahriman of the Thousand Sons
Fabius Bile
Kharn the Betrayer(and pretty fun guy all round)
and all of the Witch Hunters
Are not finecast are they going to get new minis? Or are they the second wave? Most of these listed are old(like 2nd) Minis I'm hoping they will get some love.
And give GW some time they will get this right if not well that will suck. But if you hate Finecast and the other things everyone crying about just quit no one is stopping from playing warmachine. The new way GW is going my not be the best way, but that's the way they are going. You as a gamer should take a look in a mirror and say how can I fix this and do proactive things like support the
http://www.thecodexproject.com/ and your gaming clubs. And stop acting like kids. We mite play with toy army guys but we are not kids.
Just returned from my Failcost adventure... bought Eldar Shadowseer and Azhag. Opened both in store.
Shadowseer had a hole in the head (miscast), affecting about a quarter of it, which I filled in with glue. Not happy I had to do it, but I decided to suck it up on this one. Otherwise, model is very nice. I've primed it black and it seems the details are crisper than I expect from metals, however, I do not have a metal Shadoseer to compare. The other Shadowseer in the store had the same miscast.
Azhag. Oh Azhag. First thing, I don't have the metal version. On opening, I was pleasantly surprised that I could make out a thumbprint from the sculptor on the back of the big orc face shield... don't know if it is visible on the metal. Now the bad. The box had 2 right wings but no left wing. Both right wings were tissue thin in several areas with many holes. So the other two boxes in the store were opened, all had the same flaws (all told, 3 boxes, 6 right wings all quite thin and porous). I returned Azhag because I was not happy with the quality of the wings, and did not want to wait with half a model for my correct wing to show up.
So, my overall impression: disappointed. These are not worth the cost. If they were half the price, I would be totally happy. But at this price, I expect a product without flaws.
-Loki- wrote: The difference is every unit in your army gets that value, unlike video games only getting that out of multiplayer titles. Plus the hobby side, building and painting them, and you easily get more value out of a unit of warhammer dudes than a video game.
And, I also did mention multiplayer only titles being the exception. The very rare exception. The most recent Battlefield and Call of Duty titles, and the Valve multiplayer only titles, keep a healthly online community. Considering how many games are released per month, that's not a good percentage of games. Most are 7-8 hour single player games with no, or completely forgettable, multiplayer. The occasional open world game or RPG lasts about twice a normal game. And still, they're not as common anymore as the same old 7-8 hour shooterfest.
Uhm no. Not in the least. I think I'm up to 40ish hours on Dragon age I w/ exp[ansion pack. I would expect easily to hit 60-100 depending. Depends on the player and game. I dont play online nor multiplayer ever.
At least 
) and the in your face 
