The things I'm not sold on are the things I wasn't considering using.
The Crypt Horrors are nice, but I'm not a fan of Ghouls. The Mortis Engine and Hexwraiths... I dunno. Not sure why, but there's something about them that does't tickle me. I know the Mortis Engine is 80% the same as the Coven Throne, but the unique part just doesn't interest me.
Now, the Black Knights, Vargeists, Coven Throne, Krell, plastic Wight King and Isabella? Downright jaw dropping.
Crypt Horrors are fun. Vargheists? Not so much.
Mortis Engine is fun. Hexwraiths are fun.
Coven Throne is meh.
Black Knights are gorgeous.
Krell is gorgeous.
Wight King is being bought in duplicate, as with a hand swap for his right arm and a head swap--I can finally have a bulked up looking Vampire Count dismounted from a Zombie Dragon!
Isabella looks now BETTER than Vlad, and is in a different scale.
Coven throne/mortis engine: wow that's OOT, with so much stuff going on with the base and engine itself, never expect to see a painted one at a tournament *ever*
Vargheist/Crypt Horror: Vargeists are meh, static poses, boring paintjob. Like the minotaurs/stormraven, expect them to look much better in person and blame GW for bad marketing. Crypt Horrors look awesome, but need more dynamic posing.
Wight King: Awesome, and for £8 a steal (though still horribly overprices in AUS)
Black Knight/Hexwraiths: Wow, they've gotten the kind of detail the Bloodknights had and made them plastic, well done GW. All we need now is a decent ruleset for them and they might be useful.
Krell/Isabella: Krell looks cartoonish, Isabella is a well sculpted model. Krell is already a freakin' skeleton, he doesn't need a trophy rack GW! Also, what the is the handle of his axe supposed to be made of? Crystal? Ethereal matter? Rock candy?
Von Carstein Upgrade Pack: Too bad I play Blood Dragons.
Still doesn't inspire me to pick up a new game. I've liked VC for almost two years, and I thought the old models were fantastically vintage and full of charm. New stuff is great, but doesn't feel like the same VC.
Ehsteve wrote:Coven throne/mortis engine: wow that's OOT, with so much stuff going on with the base and engine itself, never expect to see a painted one at a tournament *ever*.
Are we looking at the same model? Painting the ghosts is as easy as painting any other ghost. Prime white, paint metal parts boltgun metal and highlight with chainmail and mithrol silver, wash all of it thraka green, drybrush ghostly parts white a few times.
The only complicated part of the kit are the engine/throne.
I just saw the new modles. Their beautiful. Have already started planning a army.
Tried to start them when 8th came out, but was to hard to wrap my head around them. So played chaos instead.
Was orginally thinking GW skeleton command squads, but then fill out the ranks with Wargames Factory Skeletons. But after seeing how good/well prices Mantic Zombies are, and the fact thier skeletons aren't half bad either. I may just straight up make my core from Mantic.
XD
I like GW's skeletons but their just so pricy for how many you need.
Impressive models and it's reassuring to know the VC codex will be written by Phil Kelly. I look forward to reading it when it comes out. Heck, I may even sell off one of my 40k armies and start playing VC.
GW just made Battlefoam very happy with the Coven Throne/Mortis Engine kit. Because, seriously, how else are you going to transport those suckers without a custom cut-out foam piece?
Death By Monkeys wrote:GW just made Battlefoam very happy with the Coven Throne/Mortis Engine kit. Because, seriously, how else are you going to transport those suckers without a custom cut-out foam piece?
Magnetized, on the inside of a metal container like all your models
Sidstyler wrote:That every fantasy army needs giant, expensive plastic kits, apparently.
Hey, if its what the people want, I'm fine with it. The terrorgheist/zombie dragon was one of the most impressive large models I have seen in a longass time. This looks like it might be better.
Im trying to sneak a peak at the now winds of undeath vortex. Anyone able to read it or know the new rules for it? Im curious.
looks like d6 S3 hits per rank with no armor saves allowed but my resolution could be better. Boosted makes it big blast and S4 as well. That sounds nasty for horde. Also the lore attribute gives +1 wound healed to a model within 12" or to the wizard himself.
That could be a good deterent to people running school buses against VC. Run 5 wide 10 deep and risk 10 d6 hits, or fewer wider ranks to reduce that but not get steadfast against larger undead units.
I like the new Black Knights, Krell and the Wight Lord miniature, but everything else is a bit 'meh' for me.
The Coven and Mortis engine just have too much going on, they look too busy and not well enough integrated imho. Plus, the GW proportions on the riders looks off, yet again.
Yeah, I'm not really feeling the love for any of these. The compulsory giant 2-in-1 kit looks so over the top it waltzes past "awesome" and ends up in "ridiculous".
Agamemnon2 wrote:Yeah, I'm not really feeling the love for any of these. The compulsory giant 2-in-1 kit looks so over the top it waltzes past "awesome" and ends up in "ridiculous".
You're playing a Games Workshop game.
Over the top is what they do.
And seriously - no love for the plastic Black Knights? I thought they stole the show. There's blood knight levels of detail going on in those plastics.
I just now found my jaw as these look awesome. I was kinda halfway into fantasy with Mantic to play an undead army but seeing this pulled me right into GW fantasy territory. I will have to pick up the army book and Mortis Engine if only because they look wonderful.
My eyes just popped out of my rotted skull these models are flippin' great. The coven throne and vargeists in particular. Clearly GW has the Vampire Counts range on the correct heading.
Wow. I'm really surprised that they haven't updated the zombies or ghouls. I think GW keeping their ghouls to their own design and having monstrous ghouls is really interesting and brave. This is the first of the new books that I have really wanted to play before seeing the rules. I want to see if there is a skeletal themed option but if not I'm going ghouls. I really like the monstrous versions.
Holy ! Those models a fething beautiful! I hate the army book cover but damn... Nice thing that GW decided to bring Krell back and Isabella a new sculpt
kenshin620 wrote:
Speaking of which, I wonder if Nagash would come back
It would also be interesting to see what other SC get in
Second that I would like Nagash back, if only to see what the modern interpretation of this model would look like. As it is I don't think anyone wants to field this old model.
Urghhh that cover is horrible - do not like at all - its bad enough its still the same ol Carstein - yawn - cover but compared to previous incarnations it is awful :(
Good to see Krell - he looks good
Isabella - not at all how I imagined her - but its a great model
The Coven Throne - oh that is just gorgeous - got to get one NOW! Finally some Lahimarian love (so to speak)
Mortis Throne is alos very nice
Vargheists - pretty good - not much use to me but nicely done - same with Crypt Horrors and Wight King
Black Knights look good but not keen on the Hexwraiths
but that cover - just why :( All the great art they have access to and thats it :(
I will probably get the wight king, but I'm not too interested in any of the other releases shown so far. I was hoping for another Vampire or two. Don't like either of the Monstrous Infantry, and the big kits while technically pretty damn impressive are not to my taste.
I highly doubt that this is the entirety of it. I'm kinda hoping that, despite being so "new", Vlad and Konrad get redone. They look tiny compared to the Ghoul King from the Terrorgheist kit.
Seeing these new models only makes me even more glad I gave up on GW. What a bloated, overpriced mess. The mortis engine is a shambles, and has accident written all over it - good luck carrying that to a tournament.
The Vargeists look like a British heavy metal band from the early 1980s, and as for Isabella...reminds me of the type of women you'd see on a saturday night in any British city!
The wight king is good, but those giant ghouls are just...giant ghouls! I expect the new spells to be your typical wipe out half a regiment variety. Two 6s seems to trump skill in Warhammer fantasy.
If I were a Bretonnian player, I'd just give up hoping for a new book.
Kanluwen wrote:Honestly, I like the cover...and I'm a very vocal "hater" of Blanche's work usually.
That's not John Blanche's work it's Dave Gallagher's. I think it's ok, it needs to be fairly 'middle of the road' because of the wide variety of themes for the vampire counts. I'm more interested in how they have presented the ghouls, skeletons, zombies and Grave Guard.
- Very busy looking, lots of bits though.
- Three female vampires and a necromancer.
- You might be able to mout the Vampiresses side saddle on a nightmare.
- The Spirit bits could be used as fodder for several spirit host.
- The only thing negative I have to say is that there is so much model re-use! I see skeletons, grave guard, re-posed variants of the new plastic Banshees, the new plastic wraith, and I think I see the corpse cart driver stuck on there as well.
Vargheist:
- The poses are kind of static, but being plastic they'll just need a little reposing.
- At least I have a unit to sub my Rackham Wampyrs as, the Vargheists can stand in for my Varghulfs so that they don't all look the same.
Crypt Horrors:
- I really like these, glad that they didn't end up as patchwork horrors.
Wight King:
- Perfect.
- Slight conversion to make a banner bearer.
- Combine it with bits from the Black Knight box for a mounted Wight King.
Krell:
- I just don't like the model.
- If he has good rules I'll sub in Enigma's Primus Death
.
Isabella Von Carstein:
- Alright I guess, but who uses her anyway?
- Looks like she could readily stand in for a Lahmian Vamp though.
- I already have a far superior Mad Puppet Minitures - Vampiress and a AOW - Vampiress
Von Carstein upgrade pack:
- I like these but being fine cast they'll be over priced.
Black Knights:
- Love the Black Knight Riders and the skeletal horses especially the barding and armor.
Hexwraiths:
- The Hexwraiths are terrible as is.
- How is it that the Ghostly riders on the Mortis Thones base turned out so much better.
- But a bit of GS and judicious converting and you should be able to get them looking good.
Armybook Cover:
- Terrible. How do they choose this cover, it fails compared to the last edition.
- The Hexwraiths are terrible as is.
- How is it that the Ghostly riders on the Mortis Thones base turned out so much better.
- But a bit of GS and judicious converting and you should be able to get them looking good.
I like the Black Knights and the Wight King, but what I really like is the return of Heinrich Kemmler! Finally I can go back to using a Necromancer as my general.
- The Hexwraiths are terrible as is.
- How is it that the Ghostly riders on the Mortis Thones base turned out so much better.
- But a bit of GS and judicious converting and you should be able to get them looking good.
'Eavy Metal & the photography department have always managed to make even the best GW models look like some form of kitten-regurditated-crapheap of epic fail. Look at how many people bemoaned the minotaurs - yet when you give them a decent colour scheme, they look damn tasty! Same for the BA/GK 'chicken bird' that the photo just kills looks-wise.
I'm definately going to pick-up at least 5 of the hexwraiths, but I'm thinking of using a more black/grey scheme with no cartoony green'ish glow.
At least GW hasn't put out any models recently that are 'LotR wood elves' bad!
I dislike the over-the-top nature of the latest GW releases, though... it's such a shame because the single plastic characters they're releasing show that they can do models well and with class still, but are choosing to go in a different design direction...
Still, pretty comprehensive and vampire players will be happy with it, I'd think.
£25 for a 96 page army book. Go crazy GW and give us 100 pages. Another blatant rip-off. If FOW can give us a hardback rulebook for the same price, which is packed full of goodies, then there is no reason for GW not to do the same.
RiTides wrote:I dislike the over-the-top nature of the latest GW releases, though... it's such a shame because the single plastic characters they're releasing show that they can do models well and with class still, but are choosing to go in a different design direction...
I concur... Mortis Engine/Coven Throne is a bit mental and not in a good way The mini Varghulfs are ok and it's good to have new Black Knights at last. I like the characters and long may the single plastic frame models continue.
My verdict is that by and large, VC now have an excellent range, though the new large multi-option kit is the most forced introduction of a big arse monster/war machine yet and doesn't impress me in the slightest.
Lore Attribute seems to restore a single lost wound to the caster or another friendly character with 12". Though if that's the case I'm not sure why it's called "Curse of the Undeath"... "Boon of the Undeath" would seem more appropriate
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:£25 for a 96 page army book. Go crazy GW and give us 100 pages. Another blatant rip-off. If FOW can give us a hardback rulebook for the same price, which is packed full of goodies, then there is no reason for GW not to do the same.
There is a reason
No matter what, people will buy the books
Honestly, I hate the hardcovers. At least PP gives softcover options
Plus Laminating and Spiraling is imo the best way for these books
'Eavy Metal & the photography department have always managed to make even the best GW models look like some form of kitten-regurditated-crapheap of epic fail. Look at how many people bemoaned the minotaurs - yet when you give them a decent colour scheme, they look damn tasty! Same for the BA/GK 'chicken bird' that the photo just kills looks-wise.
I'm definately going to pick-up at least 5 of the hexwraiths, but I'm thinking of using a more black/grey scheme with no cartoony green'ish glow.
At least GW hasn't put out any models recently that are 'LotR wood elves' bad!
Thier not ALWAYS that bad. It just seems when they screw up, they REALY screw up.
=P
The fact they painted the fire on the hexwraiths so different a colour, it makes the fact the mounts don't have fire really apparent. If the whole model is done in the army of the dead look, it won't look like such a eye sore.
Alternatively, if you are going to paint the fire a different colour, then would be a good idea to green stuff some fire onto the mounts. That way it looks more like ethereal flames, and less like the rider is suffering spontaneous combustion...
IMHO that is the biggest problem with the models, but it doesn't help the paint job is pointing this out so painfully! XD
Kroothawk wrote:Personally I am not a fan of any of the new miniatures,but then again I am not a Vampire player.
None of them at all? The Black Knights are gorgeous IMHO (not so impressed with the Hex Wraith alternative) and the Wight King is another impressive single plastic miniature. I don't actively dislike the Monstrous Infantry set, but both builds are a bit underwhelming when compared to something like the River Trolls. The big kit though is rubbish and is awarded my first of 2012.
Kroothawk wrote:Personally I am not a fan of any of the new miniatures,but then again I am not a Vampire player.
None of them at all?
Some people just dont like the certain looks and themes of an army, not all that uncommon really. Its easy not to really like or care for at least one army
kenshin620 wrote:Honestly, I hate the hardcovers. At least PP gives softcover options
I like that PP gives you the option for hard or soft cover books. The hardcover books do look cool and aren't a bad option for people who want to collect them.
That's the problem, though, GW either can't "afford" to or just doesn't feel like giving you an option. "We can charge more for hardcover books? FETH IT, you're all buying hardcover now whether you want it or not, no more 'cheap' paperbacks for you freeloaders."
I also have to admit that none of the VC models particularly make me want to start a VC army. They look alright, it just doesn't make me feel like "Holy gak I must buy ALL the things!" They do look like they had more effort put into them than the Beastmen releases, though.
InventionThirteen wrote:Anyone else thinking the vampire babes would make excellent models for a dark eldar pimp raider?!
Now that is a mighty fine idea thanks
Yes that I will be selling each one of the three for $20 a pop to pay for my Mortis Engine
As for the models, do like most the kits. Some of the dual kits are 50/50 with one build being great, the other weak. The coven/engine is crazy and it seems either people love it or hate it. I like it in all it's craziness and is better than any of the battle engines that PP put out. The bitz options alone are going to be huge. The Stonehorn/Thundertusk set was great for kitting out my Ogre army.
Love the Black Knights, but think the Hexwraiths are the weakest models of the new range. The little flames make them look stupid. Opinion may change once I see the actual plastics.
Main models I'm iffy about are Hexwraiths and Vargheists. Others look fine to me (if not, like the Wight King, amazing).
Hexwraiths don't look like burning, vengeful spirits. They look like a halloween cackling skeleton with growths. Essentially, they're too "dynamic" when compared to the other new Undead Cavalry models.
The Vargheists... they aren't bad, but if they're a replacement to the Varghulf I'll take the old ones instead. Mind, if the Varghulf is to be to Vargheists what the Shaggoth is to Dragon Ogres, I'll probably be fine with 'em.
Very iffy on the Undead Spell Lore. The signature effect isn't bad, but leaves me wary on how the Lore'll play out. Hopefully we aren't going to be seeing "7+ When the User Casts this Spell They may raise D6 Skeletons / Zombies, or one model / wound to other units", but I wouldn't put it past GW to reduce the effectiveness of Undead-raising in turn for some other focus (like an increase in buff spells).
Damn it GW! I just go and finish converting 12 black knights and you release these! Ah well, maybe I can just pick up the new steeds and stick my dudes on those...
As for everything else, looks pretty good but the cover art is just terrible...
Don't mind him, he's just one of those guys that thinks you have no business playing the game if you have even one negative thing to say about the company making it. If you don't love Warhammer/GW unconditionally and you can actually pick out faults, you're not good enough to call yourself a fan. lol
Besides, I don't see anywhere in his post where he said he was getting into Warhammer, just that he wasn't a fan of the models. You guys are putting words into his mouth and making assumptions based on nothing.
Draigo wrote:Why are you all answering for him and blowing this way outta proportion? Im sure hes a big boy and doesnt need people answerin for him as well.
the only reason my answer sounds weird is because the question is weird.
geez. and im sure HBMC is fine with me answering. so you *shoo shoo
Until I say @lunahound you can quit assuming I was directing my response to you. So shoo yourself and quit thinking every post has anything to do with you.
Draigo wrote:Until I say @lunahound you can quit assuming I was directing my response to you. So shoo yourself and quit thinking every post has anything to do with you.
To be fair, without quoting, normally a message is meant for the one above....
(un)Holy gak! I had been intentionally ignoring this thread until something concrete appeared and pleased i am that I did.
Lots of plastic characters is sweet and he black knights look good to me, plus 5 for £18.50 seems like good value to me...../ or I just used to GW prices.
Looks like I will be blowing the dust off my old Skellies in the new year.
InventionThirteen wrote:Anyone else thinking the vampire babes would make excellent models for a dark eldar pimp raider?!
Now that is a mighty fine idea thanks
This is funny, I had been thinking that since I saw the pics. I was about to put my VC away for awhile, tired of getting my butt kicked by chaos, well now I have to see what the new book is gonna do for us. As for the models, Love the big kit, have a bunch of black knights already so hopefully the hexwraiths are good, the crypt horrors/vargheists, mmm well have to see the rules and hope they are not replacing the vargulf. Since 8th came out the magic phase has gone to hell so hopefully they helped our phase a bit. Getting the Isabella model but mainly 'cause it;s beautiful, the others not sure, wait for rules. And now the waiting, grrrrr.
Lovely models but the artwork is beyond bad saturday morning cartoon. I know they want it to appeal to kids but thats one of the worst covers I have saw
Had news and a few pics of all the new minis a few weeks ago and some of the army book entries but di not see the cover until just now am back from holidays.
GW really, really needs to do something about the absolutely pants offerings they are making for the army book covers.
They are a real let down and not in keeping with pretty much any of the art found elsewhere in the main rulebook, army books or sourcebooks.
And sadly this is even worse than the Tomb King book.
Waaagh_Gonads wrote:GW really, really needs to do something about the absolutely pants offerings they are making for the army book covers.
They are a real let down and not in keeping with pretty much any of the art found elsewhere in the main rulebook, army books or sourcebooks.
And sadly this is even worse than the Tomb King book.
While I don't like it, I don't think it's as bad as the Tomb Kings cover. Whose artistic style is this? Whoever it is needs to stop!
The odd sketch like this is OK, but not on the cover please. The 40k Daemon Codex has the opposite problem; nice cover, horrible drawings inside.
In an ideal world I'd prefer both elements to be great.
It's strange because the Orcs and Goblins book cover looks more like what we have come to expect. You would think the covers would have some kind of artistic continuity because they are now hardbacks... well it makes sense to me anyway.
Black Knights look really nice and arcane evil, but the hexwraiths and coven throne are more "goofy laughing skeletor" style.
The monstrous infantry is OK apart from the disturbing nest of pubic hair.
Seriously GW, if you don't want to sculpt "meat and 2 veg".. just leave it blank, it's better than trying to pretend that the hideous manticore/undead gonads are covered up by the masses of hideous manticore/undead pubes that you've sculpted instead.
There has been mutteringsve from a coupkle of older sources in the studio that it is to target the younger players who have the disposable cash to afford WHFB armies.
But the vast majority of younger players play 40K.
I know that they are sticking with it for consistency but they are almost universally awful. \
CthuluIsSpy wrote:Has anyone noticed that the name of the guy Krell serves sounds disturbingly like the name of a certain real-life nutjob?
Yes.
But it's not a new thing at all. Kemmler is an old, old, old character. As a sidenote, I don't think Kemmler is getting a new model or at least not yet. It's likely them moving the old one over to Finecast.
On the subject of the "new" cover art: I'm not terribly offended by this move to a new 'style'. I don't like the "warmth" of the art in this particular case, but I'm very much okay with the art itself.
Waaagh_Gonads wrote:GW really, really needs to do something about the absolutely pants offerings they are making for the army book covers.
They are a real let down and not in keeping with pretty much any of the art found elsewhere in the main rulebook, army books or sourcebooks.
And sadly this is even worse than the Tomb King book.
While I don't like it, I don't think it's as bad as the Tomb Kings cover. Whose artistic style is this? Whoever it is needs to stop!
It's strange because the Orcs and Goblins book cover looks more like what we have come to expect. You would think the covers would have some kind of artistic continuity because they are now hardbacks... well it makes sense to me anyway.
I said this earlier but for those who missed it. The art is Dave Gallagher the same guy who did the Orcs and Goblins cover and the Island of Blood cover and the bestiary pictures for the Storm of Magic book and the Battle of Skull Pass and a load of other art and covers for GW. As I said in my other post there are so many choices in a VC army they can't show them all. Also most players will have their own idea of what a vampire army should be so a middle of the road cover suits it. Looking at all the army covers they are all rather middle of the road with a character that looks like Hero as opposed to a Lord.
I'd rather have this cover that looks like classic GW than another boring 'Americanised' pic that looks like it has been lifted from Blizzard or Privateer Press. I understand the cover might not be to everyone's taste but surely it's the contents that are important? I have read hardly anything about the new rules and how the core troops are costed, especially as it's the cost of core ghouls that is unbalanced in the current book. Having said that it's a Phil Kelly book and while i don't mind him as a designer the points costs of the Beastmen book make me a little nervous for the Vampire Counts.
ZAlpha posted some rules and points tidbits over on Warseer
ZAlpha wrote:Lore of the Vampires
Signature Spell is definitely Invocation of Nehek - on the most fundamental level it can restore "D6 + caster's Wizard level" of Wounds to friendly Undead unit within 6". Boosted version has 12" range, as well as 18" ones.
Other spells includes Raise Dead, Vanhel's Danse Macabre, Curse of Years, Gaze of Nagash, and Wind of Death
Lore attribute: When the spell from the Lore of the Vampires is succefully casted, the wizard or any undead models within 12" restores 1 wound.
Rules tidbits:
All Vampire has rule called "Hunger" - You get to roll a D6 when the vampire kills one or more models in combat, on a 6 you recovers one wound. (Vlad with Blood Drinker pass the roll on 4+)
Also Vampire, including vampiric creatures "such as" Varghulf and Vargheist, can march. So Vargheist will be able to move 20" per turn almost all the time. (not sure if Varghulf can also fly)
Vampiric Powers: (not all of them, just those mentioned in WD)
Flying Horror - give the vampire ability to fly (unsure)
Dread Knight - ability to boost WS (don't know how - but a Vampire Llord with Dread Knight has WS of 9)
Quickblood - gains ASF Master of the Black Arts - get to re-roll one D6 for the Winds of Magic.
Dark Acolyte - add D3 to the total number of models raised by Nehek.
Red Fury - should be about the same. (unsure)
New units:
Coven Throne
- Basically a chariot mount for your Lord.
- Is a Large target with S5 T5 5W and 5+ save.
- has Spectral Steed rules (can move 8"), Undead, Vampiric, ASF (only for Handmaiden who has 2 S5 Attacks)
- has Random Attacks (2D6) at S3 from the spirit horde.
- Has Ward Save of 4+
- Battle of Wills (before the first enemy rolls to hit against the character or the Throne, both player roll a D6 and add their LD value. Has effects based on the difference of the score)
* no effect (0 or less)
* suffer -1WS/BS * the enemy must re-roll successful To Hits
* each model in the enemy unit strike each other (only 1 attack per model)
- Has Bound Spell (lvl3) allowing the Throne (and all of its crew) to re-roll either To Hit or To Wound rolls.
Mortis Engine
- Is a Rare Choice
- Same stats as for the Throne (S5 T5 W5 Sv5+)
- has 2D6 attacks at S3 from the spirit horde
- Undead, Terror, Spectral Steed, and Regeneration
- can make Ghostly Howl attack.
- can take upgrade, allowing any wizards casting spell from the Lore of the Vampires to get +2 to their casting attempt. (ANY) miscast wizards rolls twice on the table and have the opponent choose the result)
- The Reliquary (at the start of your turn, roll 2D6 and add the current turn number - until the start of its next turn, all friendly Undead units within this number of range gains +1 bonus to their Regeneration, 6+ if they don't have any, to a maximum of 4+. Also, all enemy units within this range suffers D6 hits at the strength equal to the turn number.
- Also has some penalties if removed from play - by damaging every units within a random range at the strength equal to the current turn number)
Master Necromancer
- New Lord choice (ie. better Necromancer)
- Banshees and Cairn Wraith are now Hero
Hexwraiths (special)
- Fast Cavalry with Ethereal (yes!) that can inflict automatic S5 hits on unit that it moved through.
Vargheist (special)
- Flying Monstrous Infantry that has Fly, Frenzy, and 3A.
Crypt Horrors (special)
- Monstrous Infantry unit with M6 S4 T5 I2 W3 A3, has Poisoned Attacks, Regeneration 5+, and Undead.
I think that's all I've seen in the WD...
BTW, Heinrich Kemmler is back in finecast (and in the book) for sure. But on the original sculpt, no new miniature for him. (at least for now)
Seeing lots of people wondering if the Bloodline is back in the book.
Honestly, I'm not sure as it's not specifically mentioned rule-wise.
Skeletons....should be A LOT cheaper.
(40 Skellies with Full Command for less than 240 points. )
Crypt Ghouls... definitely a bit more expensive.
Zombies... even cheaper than the current one.
Fell Bats... cheaper.
Corpse Cart.... almost the same (but goes Special)
Bloodwin wrote:I'd rather have this cover that looks like classic GW than another boring 'Americanised' pic that looks like it has been lifted from Blizzard or Privateer Press.
They have Paul Goddamn Dainton in their art dept. While Gallagher's work is certainly illustrative, it lacks the scope and punch a cover should have and there's no reason to have him do work other members of the team can do better.
Lovin the new models. Good thing I don't have an army, or I'd be poor now. But, I'll prolly get some of the new ghouls for my CSM lesser demons though, since I'm use the current ones now.
Backing up the posters who talk about the blah-ness of these. Man! I was so hoping this would be my first real fantasy army in years too... Stupid lame-Black-Knights...
I'm quite pleased with the new Black Knights - now I can banish the brittle old metal ones to the confines of my bits box, along with their plain skeleton steeds.
The big kit is very impressive but perhaps a touch overblown for the average army? Only real disappointment for me however was no new plastic zombies - so far anyways.
I am VERY pleased that Necromancer Lords are back (back in the days I played undead, before the army got split into vc and tk, I always used one), I am VERY pleased The Lichmaster is back with us, he was fairly iconic back in the day.
The Vargeists and big ghouls are not so very interesting, I think these 'dual' kits end up missing out detail and pose wise because they try to be two things instead of concentrating on one. (I also think the one with a second set of baby wings is really terrible...)
Mrs Carnstien is back.
Krell is back.
The Throne doesn't work well, a massive Vozhd (tzimisce war ghoul construct from VtM) would have been amazing instead.
(((((( vamp chicks on it are very nice ))))))))
Cavalry seem good.
This army can be built with a massive saving by using Mantic minis and army deals...
Necros wrote:Lovin the new models. Good thing I don't have an army, or I'd be poor now. But, I'll prolly get some of the new ghouls for my CSM lesser demons though, since I'm use the current ones now.
I was thinking the same thing after looking at the ghouls. I'm getting tired of using bloodletters all the time.
- What used to be beautiful art work displaying warhammer armies as cover is now gone...
replaced by LARGE SINGLE CHARACTERS occupying atleast half of the space.
It is almost as if the cover is aimed at the target audience of children that have A.D.D
-Awful pose, as awkward and static as if its done by an amateur copying the pose of a model from GW plastic kits
-WTF is wrong with his hair? its like Justin Bieber gone emo and greased up goth'd up
- The right arm holding the sword, W. T . F Its as if the artist realized in order for the sword to be exposed out side the cape ( which cape was drawn last )
he realized the mistake and thus having to extend it in such an akward weird position so the blade isnt covered by the cape.
MeanGreenStompa wrote:
This army can be built with a massive saving by using Mantic minis and army deals...
Yah. I just ordered 100 skeletons and 60 Zombies from Mantic games yesterday for $150 CAD, from wayland games. I plan on picking up some of the GW boxs for the front ranks/command squads, and then extra bases to use all the base filler that comes in the mantic boxes.
That's that would of been easily been $400+ CAD for me to get together!
I'm going to have a MASSIVE Skeleton hoard of a army by the end of the project!
O_____O
If skeletons and zombies are going down, I think GW just made Mantic pretty happy in all honesty.
Heck. Wargames Factory now has plastic skeletons and surprisingly I think their some of the best plastic skeletons I've seen. My only issue was all the Greek weapons and shields they came with...
Well, I love the look of all the upcoming models which must be a first! They are all quality sculpts, I shall wait till January to decide if I want to purchase any of them.
(on the subject of the cover, I prefer the older ones, I would have liked to see a big horde of undead rather than a lone character imo)
Anyone else think that the Coven Throne and Mortis Engine look a little... unstable? I can imagine those being quite rear heavy for some reason. On the plus side those Female vaps look pretty bitchin. and im really glad to see those new Black knights.
Snrub wrote:Anyone else think that the Coven Throne and Mortis Engine look a little... unstable? I can imagine those being quite rear heavy for some reason. On the plus side those Female vaps look pretty bitchin. and im really glad to see those new Black knights.
Its stable. The center of gravity of it shifts into the front to counterbalance the rear
2-Isabella Von Carsteins boobs are huge . Seriously, she is the most voluptuous vampiress I have ever seen. It doesn't work, somehow...I always think of vampires as emaciated.
Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:Two things that pop out from the OP:
1-The cover art is very bad.
2-Isabella Von Carsteins boobs are huge . Seriously, she is the most voluptuous vampiress I have ever seen. It doesn't work, somehow...I always think of vampires as emaciated.
Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:Two things that pop out from the OP:
1-The cover art is very bad.
2-Isabella Von Carsteins boobs are huge . Seriously, she is the most voluptuous vampiress I have ever seen. It doesn't work, somehow...I always think of vampires as emaciated.
Corset :3
Also - blood. She and Vlad ran a province. They would have had ample opportunity to feed, and feed well. Warhammer Vampires look more human and youthful the more often they feed.
I actually quite like the Isabella sculpt. Seriously considering getting her and Vlad so I can run some olschool battles. Lots of zombies, corpse carts, lesser vampires, oldschool Sylvanian type vampire counts.
Reading that actually really makes me want it more for the coven throne. Rules look pretty good to me but need to see how the rest of the army fairs as for rules as to how it will help.
Bloodwin wrote:I'd rather have this cover that looks like classic GW than another boring 'Americanised' pic that looks like it has been lifted from Blizzard or Privateer Press. I understand the cover might not be to everyone's taste but surely it's the contents that are important? I have read hardly anything about the new rules and how the core troops are costed, especially as it's the cost of core ghouls that is unbalanced in the current book. Having said that it's a Phil Kelly book and while i don't mind him as a designer the points costs of the Beastmen book make me a little nervous for the Vampire Counts.
I'd like to see a return of army books like so: linkie.
However, with the hardback sort-of textured covers, I imagine one of these would be a merry hell to print in large quantities. Let alone get looking not-naff with the almost glazed effect that some new army books have.
Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:Two things that pop out from the OP:
1-The cover art is very bad.
2-Isabella Von Carsteins boobs are huge . Seriously, she is the most voluptuous vampiress I have ever seen. It doesn't work, somehow...I always think of vampires as emaciated.
Corset :3
Also - blood. She and Vlad ran a province. They would have had ample opportunity to feed, and feed well. Warhammer Vampires look more human and youthful the more often they feed.
And moreso, she was pretty young when she was turned by Vlad.
I actually quite like the Isabella sculpt. Seriously considering getting her and Vlad so I can run some olschool battles. Lots of zombies, corpse carts, lesser vampires, oldschool Sylvanian type vampire counts.
Pft! I already have Vlad, zombies, Corpse Carts, a Wight King bearing the Drakenhof Banner, Grave Guard, and skeletons!
Just need Isabella and the Black Knights now to round it out.
Read the first page...still trying to find the pieces to put my mind back together.
I absolutely love the coven throne/mortis engine. and the black knights are awesome. I didn't actually read it...so the black knights are plastic, right???
Personally I don't mind the cover. I buy the book for the rules to play the game, not for the art on the cover XD
Harry wrote:I put in the OP that I had heard that there were 5 new units in the book ....
I guess that is Coven throne, Mortis Engine, Crypt Horrors, Vargheists and Hex wraiths ... so I guess that is your lot!
'Flesh Golem' was something Hastings heard as a rumour ages ago. I remember asking Gav Thorpe about it at the launch of 7th edition. I had also seen some concept art for Flesh Golems so when I heard monsterous infantry I assumed ....
ZAlpha wrote:Unit of 3 (2 Vargheist + 1 Vargoyle) is cheaper than 3 Great Eagles.
(...)
There's one list posted in WD, apparently no Vampire - only Kemmler (as Lord), Krell, and two Cairn Wraith.
Looking from the text in WD, I suppose...yes you can field a no-Vampire army. This is what the text says:
White Dwarf wrote:".....Master Necromancer allow players to field a high-level wizard without having to rely on a Vampire Lord to do so. In fact, they are perfectly capable of leading an Undead army on their own...."
You don't expect Ethereal Fast Cavalry to be that cheap, don't you?
Based on the demo list posted in WD, I think they may be almost as expensive as Dragon Princes of Caledor.
Admiral_Wow wrote:GW website is no longer selling:
Vampire count battalion box
Vampire Counts Zacharias on Zombie Dragon
Blood Dragon with Great Weapon, Foot and Mounted
Vampire Counts Necromancer on Nightmare
Vampire Counts Spirit Host
Vampire Counts Black Coach
Vampire Counts Tomb Banshee 3
all items are no longer available.
Kemmler is confirmed to get a Finecast rerelease in January, A Black Coach Finecast recast also this month or later.
For the people who were wondering, it's a Dave Gallagher cover. I do wonder what's happened to him of late because I used to love his work...
I would welcome the return of Necromancer led armies, but wonder how you nominate a general for the purpose of decided when the army starts to crumble. Probably the highest level wizard lord like TK. Anyway, it's good that GW are recognising the power of the old fluff. A Kemmler/Krell army would be awesome.
Mr Morden wrote:see thats a nice picture - its pretty sad how the covers are declining in quality given all the talent shown in other images.
maybe he was just in a rush :(
I was also kinda hoping for some Swains rules as that was fun and the recent novels feature them a lot.
I just use the wight king rules to represent my swains and model appropriately. Not perfect, but it works and as fun as it was back in 6th ed, I don't ever want a return to those rules as it's just far too powerful an option. (because you just know everyone will start including a Herald of Tzeentch w/Loremaster - Life !)
Anyway, that coven throne looks nasty!
I am sure we will be seeing a lot of armies with that What Ld do vampires have, 9 or 10?
And it has ASF and a 4+ ward, and rerolls to hit and wound (potentially anyway)
CthuluIsSpy wrote:What are swains? I never heard of those.
One of the older VC books had Bloodline themed army lists in the back. The Lahmian list had the option for swains where you could (mis)appropriate a hero from another army book, the idea being that they were in thrall to your general. These lists were fun (the Von Carstein list could field human soldiers) but could only be used with the permission of your opponent.
CthuluIsSpy wrote:What are swains? I never heard of those.
Anyway, that coven throne looks nasty!
I am sure we will be seeing a lot of armies with that What Ld do vampires have, 9 or 10?
And it has ASF and a 4+ ward, and rerolls to hit and wound (potentially anyway)
Swains were a fun idea Basically the idea is that some Vampires often have devoted followers in love with the Vampire (Lahmian in the VC army book) and who hoped (often just drained) to be trasnformed into a Vampire themselves. In game terms you could use a Hero from another army book - I tended to use eitehr a human or a Elf hero although technically you could have Skaven etc ...
I even made up a army list along the lines of the old idea - info here:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:I'm just waiting for the tide of 'Vampire Counts are too powerful threads,' which will no doubt crop up on Jan 15th
As long as the casting values for the spells are raised, I don't care really.
And if the Coven throne is reasonably price of course.
We don't have to wait, whineseer is already devolving into an argument of:
side a) "Yay! Ghouls are nerfed, stoopid spamy spell iz gone, VC's are still too roflstomp'ing mah army!!1!!!11!"
side b) "WTF GW?!1!! Ghoul are crap at 10pts, mah army is garbage VC's sucks now!111!!!!!1!11!"
For some odd reason, VC's will always be the most hated & complained about army in fantasy, even despite the new levels of filth you see from WoC/Skaven/DE's and of course, Daemons. But VC's are still 'the brokenist' somehow?!
As for the Coven Throne, apparently in the WD battle report it's 6xx or more pts with a Lord on it, so I'd say it's rather costly but it's abilities are quite tasty! Plus with a 4++ it'll be fairly resilient to the main 'gribbly killers' like the various cannons.
I don't forsee this thing screaming hellbent into entire armies and curbstomping all in it's path, but it will no doubt hurt when you combo-charge it in with any half-decent unit! (which is honestly all I've been wanting for my VC's since that complete farce of a 7th ed book! )
Also, warseer has rumored in their thread that the following banners make a return in the magic item section;
- Screaming Banner
- Banner of Blood Keep
Not bad, I couldn't care less about the dickenhof banner, and we almost certainly won't be stuck with the Black Axe of Krell and Blood Drinker has gone to Vlad... I predict we'll see the following magic items;
- Tomb Blade
- Frostblade (damnit - i hate this item!!!)
- Rod of Flaming Death (could do with some improvement because the Ruby Ring is better)
Also, fingers crossed for the likes of The Good Book, Cursed Book & a Lahmian item. I know alot of VC players though will be utterly devastated if the Barrows Banner goes.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:I'm just waiting for the tide of 'Vampire Counts are too powerful threads,' which will no doubt crop up on Jan 15th
As long as the casting values for the spells are raised, I don't care really.
And if the Coven throne is reasonably price of course.
We don't have to wait, whineseer is already devolving into an argument of:
side a) "Yay! Ghouls are nerfed, stoopid spamy spell iz gone, VC's are still too roflstomp'ing mah army!!1!!!11!"
side b) "WTF GW?!1!! Ghoul are crap at 10pts, mah army is garbage VC's sucks now!111!!!!!1!11!"
For some odd reason, VC's will always be the most hated & complained about army in fantasy, even despite the new levels of filth you see from WoC/Skaven/DE's and of course, Daemons. But VC's are still 'the brokenist' somehow?!
I thought after 8th edition with huge nerfs to fear/terror and the magic fixings, Vamps have been good but not as scary as before?
Oh well, what warhammer update ever happens without someone claiming OP or UP?
I can see Invocation being anywhere between 5+ and 12+ to cast, if it's really D6+Caster Level. The closest analogy in the BRB is "Regrowth", which does D3+1 Wounds at 12+. The Undead will likely have to pay less casting charge than other armies since their schtick is supposed to be easily raised undead, but I can also see the price being pretty close to the BRB's.
Magic Gear is often valued at 50, 75, or 100, unless it's a Banner. As such, look at Magic Items you can see priced at that value (with 2-4 Magic Banners in addition). Assuming Bloodlines are back, there'll probably be one magic item for every Bloodline (Weapon = Lamia, Armor = Blood Dragon, Enchanted Item = Strigoi, Talisman = Von Carstein, Arcane = Necrarch?), then a magic weapon and banners for Wights? Pure speculation, mind, just what I'm predicting.
We don't have to wait, whineseer is already devolving into an argument of:
side a) "Yay! Ghouls are nerfed, stoopid spamy spell iz gone, VC's are still too roflstomp'ing mah army!!1!!!11!"
side b) "WTF GW?!1!! Ghoul are crap at 10pts, mah army is garbage VC's sucks now!111!!!!!1!11!"
For some odd reason, VC's will always be the most hated & complained about army in fantasy, even despite the new levels of filth you see from WoC/Skaven/DE's and of course, Daemons. But VC's are still 'the brokenist' somehow?!
As for the Coven Throne, apparently in the WD battle report it's 6xx or more pts with a Lord on it, so I'd say it's rather costly but it's abilities are quite tasty! Plus with a 4++ it'll be fairly resilient to the main 'gribbly killers' like the various cannons.
I don't forsee this thing screaming hellbent into entire armies and curbstomping all in it's path, but it will no doubt hurt when you combo-charge it in with any half-decent unit! (which is honestly all I've been wanting for my VC's since that complete farce of a 7th ed book! )
Yeah, there was the same reaction with the necron release. Nobody liked that they changed living metal, and screamed nerf. They overlooked that everything is so much cheaper now
I think the reason why VC are so hated is because they can keep summoning skeletons with no limit, and that they can spam spells that have really low casting values, thanks to the "forbidden lore rule"
Anyway, Coven throne is 6xx pts or so with lord, I'm happy. That seems to be reasonable for the number of special rules and resilience it has.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Minsc wrote:I can see Invocation being anywhere between 5+ and 12+ to cast, if it's really D6+Caster Level. The closest analogy in the BRB is "Regrowth", which does D3+1 Wounds at 12+. The Undead will likely have to pay less casting charge than other armies since their schtick is supposed to be easily raised undead, but I can also see the price being pretty close to the BRB's.
Magic Gear is often valued at 50, 75, or 100, unless it's a Banner. As such, look at Magic Items you can see priced at that value (with 2-4 Magic Banners in addition). Assuming Bloodlines are back, there'll probably be one magic item for every Bloodline (Weapon = Lamia, Armor = Blood Dragon, Enchanted Item = Strigoi, Talisman = Von Carstein, Arcane = Necrarch?), then a magic weapon and banners for Wights? Pure speculation, mind, just what I'm predicting.
What does the ressurrection spell do now? D6 skellies on a 3+? Or was it 4+? I forget...
According to the rumors, it's D6+Wizard Level. Or for a Level 1 Vampire it's upgrading a D3 to a D6, and for every additional level you add +1 to the amount. Hence why I said I could see anywhere between 5+ and 12+. I mean, it might be higher, but I doubt they'll make a signature spell that the average Level 4 Wizard needs to throw 3 dice at to have better odds at success than failure (since you'd only be able to cast it once or twice a phase, at the cost of several other 12+ value spells).
Minsc wrote:According to the rumors, it's D6+Wizard Level. Or for a Level 1 Vampire it's upgrading a D3 to a D6, and for every additional level you add +1 to the amount. Hence why I said I could see anywhere between 5+ and 12+. I mean, it might be higher, but I doubt they'll make a signature spell that the average Level 4 Wizard needs to throw 3 dice at to have better odds at success than failure (since you'd only be able to cast it once or twice a phase, at the cost of several other 12+ value spells).
I thought the D6 + level was to determine the number of raised.
ZAlpha wrote:Lore of the Vampires
Signature Spell is definitely Invocation of Nehek - on the most fundamental level it can restore "D6 + caster's Wizard level" of Wounds to friendly Undead unit within 6". Boosted version has 12" range, as well as 18" ones.
Pretty sure it will be decent. I mean, having a vortex that causes D6 S3 hits per rank?
Especially in a metagame where people run 5 wide, 10 deep schoolbuses to make the most of steadfast. That spell alone will melt off ranks like nothing else.
Ummm.... I didn't think you kept your vampire powers if you turn your self into a dragon with the lore of the beast.
O____o
If you did then that's pretty funny in all honesty, and cool for catching that. I'm going to have to show that to a friend who was all smug about their being no rules arguments in fantasy.
=P
Over9000 wrote:Correction replenishes the numbers of EVERY friendly unit within 6 by d6 plus casters lvl
Really? That seems quite powerful, especially since you can boost it up to 18". Since it's the signature spell, it can be cause by any of your casters with that lore, it might get very hard to keep VC's down.
In the current pile of stinky poop we have, you can take a Vampire Lord with both the Forbidden Lore power togain access to all the spells from any lore (except Life!) and then combo it with the Spectral Form power that makes your vampire ethereal. (however, the drawback being you may not take any magic items or be mounted)
Thus, it's currently possilbe for VC's to have silliness such as ethereal mountain chimeras or great fire dragons.
It's still a stupid tactic if you're only running 1 Lord however... Seriously, let the guy cast his 'uber spell, slam his General into a unit and end up all by his little lonesome. Your turn, charge the lord, throw 6 dice to dispel his monstrous form, watch him crumble to static combat res! Even if you're running a pair of Lords, I'd still never throw a 290-340pts model away like that. Hell, for those pts I can make him usefull beyond one dumb gimmick and have him (*shock-gasp*) support an entire unit!
Over9000 wrote:Correction replenishes the numbers of EVERY friendly unit within 6 by d6 plus casters lvl
Really? That seems quite powerful, especially since you can boost it up to 18". Since it's the signature spell, it can be cause by any of your casters with that lore, it might get very hard to keep VC's down.
Over9000 wrote:Correction replenishes the numbers of EVERY friendly unit within 6 by d6 plus casters lvl
Really? That seems quite powerful, especially since you can boost it up to 18". Since it's the signature spell, it can be cause by any of your casters with that lore, it might get very hard to keep VC's down.
100%
Yeah, that sounds about right.
However, by the looks of it it seems that most of the basic units will be pretty weak anyway.
-Loki- wrote:Newsagent near my work had the new white dwarf on shelves. IoN working on all units is mentioned.
Also raise dead lets you create a new unit of zombies or skeletons now.
Am I missing something? Why would you ever Raise S2 T2 I1 naked zombies, as opposed to S3 T3 I2 light armour skeletons?
O____o
Have they buffed zombies or something in the new book? Because in all honesty if they were now T4 or something now, that would be awesome.... (Yah need to aim for the heads boys!) Whould go a long way to making them effective tarpits agien...
You might raise more Zombies than you do Skeletons - if I'm remembering the 4th/5th ed versions of that spell, I think you got an extra die if you raised zombies.
A few other tidbits from reading on the train on the way home.
Necromancers can take an upgrade called Master of the Dead. The only way to add models to a Skeleton unit raised with Raise Dead is with a Necromancer with Master of the Dead. This seems to be the benefit of zombies - if you raise skeletons, you need a Master of the Dead Necromancer to keep adding to the unit.
Ghouls are 10 points. A unit of 40 with a Ghast in one of the sample lists was 410 points.
Banner of the Blood Keep is one of the returning banners, and grants a 4+ ward save to shooting attacks.
There appear to be 3 different vampire types. Vampire lord, Vampire, Strigoi Ghoul King. This is mentioned in the new rules for Vampire Counts pacts for Storm of magic, they specifically name the lord choices you can take, and it is those 3 and Master Necromancer. They don't mention at all what makes a Strigoi Ghoul King different, though it might have something to do with Hatred and Poison, as Phil Kelly pointed out in the GW website Terrorgeist designers notes.
I also may be reading too much into it, but there's some hints towards Ghouls not being able to be reinforced through Invocation of Nehek. Don't quote me on this, it's not outright stated, just whenever they talk about raising models, Ghouls are the only unit not mentioned, as well as in the Lahmian sample list they say 'with 40 models, it ensures there will be enough left when they reach the enemy' or sometihng to that effect.
A Vampire Lord with death knight is WS 9. Looks like Vampire Lords are getting ridiculous stats again.
Master Necromancers can be the general. They specifically state this. It's possible to make an army completely lacking vampires.
They make a subtle mention about 'when the general dies, the army starts to crumble until another powerful character can regain control.' Seems like you can replace the general with a powerful Necromancer or other Vampire caster somehow if the general dies.
-Loki- wrote:I also may be reading too much into it, but there's some hints towards Ghouls not being able to be reinforced through Invocation of Nehek. Don't quote me on this, it's not outright stated, just whenever they talk about raising models, Ghouls are the only unit not mentioned, as well as in the Lahmian sample list they say 'with 40 models, it ensures there will be enough left when they reach the enemy' or sometihng to that effect.
Intriguing, ideally I'd like to see a return to Ghouls and Necromancers being alive (and therefore subject to psycology), but this is probably hoping too much
-Loki- wrote:A Vampire Lord with death knight is WS 9. Looks like Vampire Lords are getting ridiculous stats again.
Meh, a high weapon skill is overrated
-Loki- wrote:Master Necromancers can be the general. They specifically state this. It's possible to make an army completely lacking vampires.
Something else - units can only march if they are within 12" of the general, not just any vampire. They make multiple mentions of it, and talk about the importance of your generals position in the battle line.
I guess this is a way of getting around armies without vampires never being able to march, but it does hurt, especially for flanking units.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, the other returning banner is the Banner of the Barrows, not the Drakenhof banner, though no mention of its effect.
Avian wrote:The +2 to cast bonus only works for the Lore of Vampires, not any other Lore. The miscasting affects users of all Lores. In either case, it affects friends or foes within 12" of one or more Engines with the Tomes upgrade.
Over9000 wrote:Oh and direwolves count towards 25% core now
(...)
Seems to be, looking at white dwarf: They have some sample armies which dont add upto 25% unless counting wolves.
(...)
Btw the raise dead spell is now zombies/skels
Do we have any confirmations to point cost of Hexwraiths, or their stats?
30 pts s5 magic flaming
Blood knights are either 50 or 51 pts now
3 vargheists champ upgrade 148
horrors 38
knights 26 full kit
And spectral host? At last are core? How it much?
45pts ^.^ still special tho
Kyte wrote:So far I gather from various international, German and Danish forums that:
Bloodlines won't be back, but similar abilities as 6th ed bloodlines will be available through the new vampyric powers. Different powers will unlock different equipment and mount options.
New wraith cavalry will cause the same inter-forum whine as Ogre Mournfangs did, being essentially mounted one wound wraiths, easily the new power-gamer's unit of choice.
Skeletons will be the same price as the TK variety and have the same options at the same cost, except access to magic banner (varying statements on whether only one unit will be allowed magic banner or not)
Giant ghouls have T5. Otherwise same stats as a Rat Ogre.
One of the spirit-borne-thrones/engines/things gives 2+ to cast to ALL wizards within a range of (varying statements), not just your own wizards (commentary: will probably be a really fun model to both play and play against, as it offers whole new tactical aspects for both players to the game... Going to be a true hit among casual gamers like the Thundertusk, I gather).
Wraith and Banshee move to Hero Choices only.
Ixquic wrote:The Mortis Engine gives +2 to cast from the Lore of Vampires to all casters within 12" so you only have to worry about that working against you when you are playing against another Vampire. The problem is that same upgrade also causes you to roll twice on the miscast chart and your opponent picks the one that you take. It seems to me that will end up screwing you more than helping unless there's a way to single dice cast reliably in the new book.
There appear to be 3 different vampire types. Vampire lord, Vampire, Strigoi Ghoul King. This is mentioned in the new rules for Vampire Counts pacts for Storm of magic, they specifically name the lord choices you can take, and it is those 3 and Master Necromancer. They don't mention at all what makes a Strigoi Ghoul King different, though it might have something to do with Hatred and Poison, as Phil Kelly pointed out in the GW website Terrorgeist designers notes.
Does this mean that "Vampire" is no longer a Hero choice?
I get the feeling that's a typo and regular Vampires are still heroes but it would be awesome if they brought back the two Vampire Lord types from 6th edition.
It might be a return of Vamp-Lord Vamp-Count and Vamp-Thrall, and the new Invokation... why do I feel it's going to be at least 10+ to cast for the basic version? People are talking about the power in adding undead to every unit within 6", but I can't imagine GW giving such a spell (especially in comparison with the TK's raising ability) unless it involves a notable casting value.
Minsc wrote:It might be a return of Vamp-Lord Vamp-Count and Vamp-Thrall, and the new Invokation... why do I feel it's going to be at least 10+ to cast for the basic version? People are talking about the power in adding undead to every unit within 6", but I can't imagine GW giving such a spell (especially in comparison with the TK's raising ability) unless it involves a notable casting value.
6+.
Casting values are on the first page. Look for the cards.
Minsc wrote:It might be a return of Vamp-Lord Vamp-Count and Vamp-Thrall, and the new Invokation... why do I feel it's going to be at least 10+ to cast for the basic version? People are talking about the power in adding undead to every unit within 6", but I can't imagine GW giving such a spell (especially in comparison with the TK's raising ability) unless it involves a notable casting value.
6+.
Casting values are on the first page. Look for the cards.
If the last one is for the Signature Spell, that's terrifying. A level 2 has a 50% chance - pre-Gifts or Magic Items - of raising D6+2 to every unit within 6". If it means you can distributeD6+WL between units within 6", that's much less terrifying, but in this case you could potentially see four units buffed with a single wizard with a single die.
Only real advantage is that, if like Tomb Kings, taking Invocation means a Level 2's already used up half their spell choices.
Minsc wrote:It might be a return of Vamp-Lord Vamp-Count and Vamp-Thrall, and the new Invokation... why do I feel it's going to be at least 10+ to cast for the basic version? People are talking about the power in adding undead to every unit within 6", but I can't imagine GW giving such a spell (especially in comparison with the TK's raising ability) unless it involves a notable casting value.
6+.
Casting values are on the first page. Look for the cards.
If the last one is for the Signature Spell, that's terrifying. A level 2 has a 50% chance - pre-Gifts or Magic Items - of raising D6+2 to every unit within 6". If it means you can distributeD6+WL between units within 6", that's much less terrifying, but in this case you could potentially see four units buffed with a single wizard with a single die.
Only real advantage is that, if like Tomb Kings, taking Invocation means a Level 2's already used up half their spell choices.
Can Tomb Kings recast their raise dead spell? I think that we might be trading that ability for the bubble.
Minsc wrote:It might be a return of Vamp-Lord Vamp-Count and Vamp-Thrall, and the new Invokation... why do I feel it's going to be at least 10+ to cast for the basic version? People are talking about the power in adding undead to every unit within 6", but I can't imagine GW giving such a spell (especially in comparison with the TK's raising ability) unless it involves a notable casting value.
6+.
Casting values are on the first page. Look for the cards.
If the last one is for the Signature Spell, that's terrifying. A level 2 has a 50% chance - pre-Gifts or Magic Items - of raising D6+2 to every unit within 6". If it means you can distributeD6+WL between units within 6", that's much less terrifying, but in this case you could potentially see four units buffed with a single wizard with a single die.
Only real advantage is that, if like Tomb Kings, taking Invocation means a Level 2's already used up half their spell choices.
Can Tomb Kings recast their raise dead spell? I think that we might be trading that ability for the bubble.
Isn't the TK raise dead ability an attribute and not a spell?
I thought if they cast a buff on a friendly TK unit, they get back D6 wounds or something.
Minsc wrote:It might be a return of Vamp-Lord Vamp-Count and Vamp-Thrall, and the new Invokation... why do I feel it's going to be at least 10+ to cast for the basic version? People are talking about the power in adding undead to every unit within 6", but I can't imagine GW giving such a spell (especially in comparison with the TK's raising ability) unless it involves a notable casting value.
6+.
Casting values are on the first page. Look for the cards.
If the last one is for the Signature Spell, that's terrifying. A level 2 has a 50% chance - pre-Gifts or Magic Items - of raising D6+2 to every unit within 6". If it means you can distributeD6+WL between units within 6", that's much less terrifying, but in this case you could potentially see four units buffed with a single wizard with a single die.
Only real advantage is that, if like Tomb Kings, taking Invocation means a Level 2's already used up half their spell choices.
Can Tomb Kings recast their raise dead spell? I think that we might be trading that ability for the bubble.
Isn't the TK raise dead ability an attribute and not a spell?
I thought if they cast a buff on a friendly TK unit, they get back D6 wounds or something.
They do.
I find that a large number of non-VC players have always bitched about our ability to raise small mountains of the game's worst troops though. The VC 'thing' isn't just that we're undead, it's that we're the super propagating undead! TK's only raise their buried army, we go about raising the population of the Old World from circa 1300 or so on the Imperial Calander! (1100 and earlier requires too much effort apparently!)
The point of Skeletons & zombies isn't to actually kill stuff, it's to pin your biggest threats in place while our own heavy hitters dismantle the rest of your army. Right now those units can't do that however because we can't raise them fast enough to counter the obscene amounts of combat res that they bleed.
Now it looks like it'll be possible for a Necromancer or Thrall to hide out nearby a pair of skellies/endless moaners and keep them going for 3-4 combat phases, which is great! Gives us a reason not to automatically go GGGhouls anymore!
I wonder how they are going to Do Crumble in the new VC book. Crumble is probably the worst part about TK.
I personally don't think the Bubble spell is going to be that bad, if you can only raise Zombies and Skeletons with it. They may have have some rule smiler to the TK constructs on their bigger beasties, which can only recover a single wound each per magic phase.
If it's true that Ghouls can't recover wounds, but you gain the ability to bring back a lot more Skellies and Zombies, I think it'll work out well.
Sasori wrote:I personally don't think the Bubble spell is going to be that bad, if you can only raise Zombies and Skeletons with it. They may have have some rule smiler to the TK constructs on their bigger beasties, which can only recover a single wound each per magic phase.
If it's true that Ghouls can't recover wounds, but you gain the ability to bring back a lot more Skellies and Zombies, I think it'll work out well.
'The bubble spell' is Invocation of Nehek. It works on any friendly Undead unit - the specify friendly Undead, which is another reason I think Ghouls might now not be affected, they might not be Undead anymore. But any other Undead unit in its AoE will recover D6 + caster level of wounds. And don't forget the lore attribute, giving the caster or any other model within 12" a recovered wound for every successful cast.
Raise Dead is the one that can only raise Zombies and Skeletons, but it creates an entirely new unit rather than reinforcing all within range. If you raise Zombies, because of their Freshly Dead rule, you can increase the unit beyond its starting size. If you raise Skeletons, you need a Necromancer with Master of the Dead to increase its unit size.
Ummm.... I didn't think you kept your vampire powers if you turn your self into a dragon with the lore of the beast.
O____o
If you did then that's pretty funny in all honesty, and cool for catching that. I'm going to have to show that to a friend who was all smug about their being no rules arguments in fantasy.
=P
Something else of note - Heinrich Kemmler isn't the only classic model to go Finecast for this release. They are releasing the Sartosan vampire in Finecast as well.
I really hope they do more. The only thing stopping me ordering the Lahmian vampires is the fact that they're metal.
Ummm.... I didn't think you kept your vampire powers if you turn your self into a dragon with the lore of the beast.
O____o
If you did then that's pretty funny in all honesty, and cool for catching that. I'm going to have to show that to a friend who was all smug about their being no rules arguments in fantasy.
=P
I think they FAQ'd that it's true.
I'll check.
You lose all magic items & equipment. Powers are not magic items or equipment, thus you keep those bonuses...
As for unstable changing? Well, let's just say the Maple Leafs have a better shot at winning the Cup than we get any possilbe changes to unstable! For now, we're stuck with it and we'll have to try and find some way to mitigate it as best we can.
I don't blame Cruddance or Kelly in any way our crappy core situation as cheaper skellies is litterly the only thing they can do because the army books won't fiddle with core rules. We all know who wrote the main rules, and that 8th edition was ment to fix one of GW's biggest ever blunders.
Of corse, undead have come off far worse simply because we just happen to share those same mechanics with the army that broke 7th edition!
Experiment 626 wrote:
I don't blame Cruddance or Kelly in any way our crappy core situation as cheaper skellies is litterly the only thing they can do because the army books won't fiddle with core rules. We all know who wrote the main rules, and that 8th edition was ment to fix one of GW's biggest ever blunders.
Of corse, undead have come off far worse simply because we just happen to share those same mechanics with the army that broke 7th edition!
At the local gameing store thier is a saying.
"Vampire counts started building the coffin for 7th ed. But it was demons that put the nails in it."
-Loki- wrote:Something else of note - Heinrich Kemmler isn't the only classic model to go Finecast for this release. They are releasing the Sartosan vampire in Finecast as well.
...
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH
The only reason that I've already got the Sartosan Vampire is that I assumed it wouldn't be finecasted! BLARGH
-Loki- wrote:Something else of note - Heinrich Kemmler isn't the only classic model to go Finecast for this release. They are releasing the Sartosan vampire in Finecast as well.
...
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH
The only reason that I've already got the Sartosan Vampire is that I assumed it wouldn't be finecasted! BLARGH
I know the feeling.
Personally, I'm trying very, very hard to not buy the old Lahmians because I really want them in finecast. I know when I do, the next month they'll get the finecast treatment which will make my conversion idea so much easier. But if I don't, they won't get done in finecast and I'll never buy them.
-Loki- wrote:Something else of note - Heinrich Kemmler isn't the only classic model to go Finecast for this release. They are releasing the Sartosan vampire in Finecast as well.
...
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH
The only reason that I've already got the Sartosan Vampire is that I assumed it wouldn't be finecasted! BLARGH
In all honesty I'm torn at that news. I would love to get the sartosan models in finecast, but not sure if I want the finecast prices.
=/
Edit: Made me just start woundering. I wounder if thier is any new fluff mentioning the Sartosan vampires/pirate vampires in the new book?
Lockark wrote:Edit: Made me just start woundering. I wounder if thier is any new fluff mentioning the Sartosan vampires/pirate vampires in the new book?
Probably a textbox, like the ones that mentioned the Strigoi and Barrow Kings in 7th ed.
:bangs head against desk: Why would they raise the cost of ghouls? They were already pants to begin with. Now they're more expensive and potentially can't be rezzed? Wow GW, you guys just can't get anything right...
Once again - the bit where I mentioned Ghouls might not be able to be reinforced was inferred from how they avoided mentioning they can be, whereas other troops they mentioned them able to be reinforced.
I might be totally wrong and just reading too much into what they didn't say.
Nagashek wrote::bangs head against desk: Why would they raise the cost of ghouls? They were already pants to begin with. Now they're more expensive and potentially can't be rezzed? Wow GW, you guys just can't get anything right...
So it's not like pretty much every competitive VC list relied on Ghouls as the best cost to ratio troops available? Considering the cost of Zombies and Skellies is apparently going down, I say good riddance to Ghoul spam.
Sartosan is the best mini ever? Uhh.... NO. Definitely not. Just because all of the other Vampires are even MORE terrible does not make that one decent.
I am sorry, I cant help but want to smash my head through a wall right now, I just now found thi post I had been slowly building up some funds to start a vampire counts army bought a battle force, a varghulf, and my wife got me some models for christmas. Now I discover that they are coming out with a new book and new stuff..almost the same exact same thing happened when i stared my necron army this past July it seems like every time i spend money on an army GW wants to updat it...WHY ME!?!?!?!?!? Hopefully I can use everything I have.....Allthough my birthday is January 14'th , so if everything is coming out i just tell everyone to send me GW giftcards so i can get what i want....unfortunately with a new book i dont know what i want.
Scottywan82 wrote:Sartosan is the best mini ever? Uhh.... NO. Definitely not. Just because all of the other Vampires are even MORE terrible does not make that one decent.
It's far from a terrible model. I said it was among the best of the vampire models, they've certainly made better models but I can't think of a vampire they did that I like better, other than the bald vampire lord on horseback from back in the day.
GW is so cute. The email newsletter, released today, says:
Independent events and new stores
DEAD GOOD - With the 'Time of Chaos' upon the Old Worlde, the dead are restless. The cacophony of battle and fury of the bloodletting are causing the deceased to stir. See January's White Dwarf #384 for more information. Participating independent retailers only. Call for details.
BlackRaven1987!! wrote:I am sorry, I cant help but want to smash my head through a wall right now, I just now found thi post I had been slowly building up some funds to start a vampire counts army bought a battle force, a varghulf, and my wife got me some models for christmas. Now I discover that they are coming out with a new book and new stuff..almost the same exact same thing happened when i stared my necron army this past July it seems like every time i spend money on an army GW wants to updat it...WHY ME!?!?!?!?!? Hopefully I can use everything I have.....Allthough my birthday is January 14'th , so if everything is coming out i just tell everyone to send me GW giftcards so i can get what i want....unfortunately with a new book i dont know what i want.
Don't worry. Nothing has been dropped from the existing range, they're just added to it. Unless you bought some of the old metal Black Knights, which got a plastic kit. Even the Vargulf - I too was initially worried they were replacing the Vargulf with Vargeists, but Vargeists are Special and Vargulfs still in the book as Rare.
I honestly think that the Varhulf is the one i am least worried about since they just released a finecast version of the model, it deffinetly wouldnt make any sense to release a finecast varhulf not to long ago and then pull it completely....I am wondering with all these new peaseties if it is going to be possible to run an all big beastie army with these new rules....almost sounds scary all vampires and big monsters running around.....wish they would give us an undead giant or something....or werewolves(I know it cleche, but come on you really cant have vampires without werewolves.)
Hey doese anyone know anything about the corpse cart are they keeping it?? I havent heard any news about it. I hope they keep it I really like it and think it wroks pretty well in the army.
TheSovereign wrote:Any idea if a new finecast of Vlad himself will be released in this first wave? Hope he's epic (not a fan of his current model)!
He, and the other Carsteins, were only just done for 7th edition. They won't get new models for a long time.
Honestly, I think Vlads model is pretty badass. Dropping the opera clothes and giving them actual armour and weapons makes them look more at home on a battlefield. And man, his and Mannfreds swords are the best swords GW have done. They actually look like two handed swords that can cleave through things.
BlackRaven1987!! wrote:I honestly think that the Varhulf is the one i am least worried about since they just released a finecast version of the model, it deffinetly wouldnt make any sense to release a finecast varhulf not to long ago and then pull it completely....I am wondering with all these new peaseties if it is going to be possible to run an all big beastie army with these new rules....almost sounds scary all vampires and big monsters running around.....wish they would give us an undead giant or something....or werewolves(I know it cleche, but come on you really cant have vampires without werewolves.)
Hey doese anyone know anything about the corpse cart are they keeping it?? I havent heard any news about it. I hope they keep it I really like it and think it wroks pretty well in the army.
Corpse Cart is rumored to be moving to a Special Unit choice and it's getting better by all acounts too!
BlackRaven1987!! wrote:I honestly think that the Varhulf is the one i am least worried about since they just released a finecast version of the model, it deffinetly wouldnt make any sense to release a finecast varhulf not to long ago and then pull it completely....I am wondering with all these new peaseties if it is going to be possible to run an all big beastie army with these new rules....almost sounds scary all vampires and big monsters running around.....wish they would give us an undead giant or something....or werewolves(I know it cleche, but come on you really cant have vampires without werewolves.)
Hey doese anyone know anything about the corpse cart are they keeping it?? I havent heard any news about it. I hope they keep it I really like it and think it wroks pretty well in the army.
Corpse Cart is rumored to be moving to a Special Unit choice and it's getting better by all acounts too!
Better!?!?!?that is awesome I allready thought it was a great unit for the army, a little disapointing that it is been moved to special, but i guess if we are able to use dire wolves to count towards our core requirement I can deal with it.
decoy101 wrote:all ive heard is that the the corpse cart is special not sure on what the rules for it now are
The rumor is that anytime a corpse cart is targeted (re: within range) of invocation, it then auto grants ASF to nearby units! I'd say that's a huge improvement over actually needing to spend a seperate PD to attempt to cast the bound spell!
I don't know if anybody has commented on this yet, but in the artwork for the Coven throne it looks like a fancy, over-the-top transport for a ginormous Reese's Peanut-butter Cup. I got a laugh out of it at least...
decoy101 wrote:all ive heard is that the the corpse cart is special not sure on what the rules for it now are
Close. If it is the target of a spell from the Lore of the Vampires (which includes being in the AoE of Invocation of Nehek), all units within 6" get ASF until your next magic phase.
It should be noted that it has this rule currently, though slightly differently. Currently, it's a bound spell, so it eats an additional power dice to activate. They've just changed it to be a passively triggered spell by being affected by another spell.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:I'm just waiting for the tide of 'Vampire Counts are too powerful threads,' which will no doubt crop up on Jan 15th
You mean people stopped posting "VC are overpowered"?
Locally, they're still crying about them. now they're crying more.
Super Irony Overload: It's been High Elf players. you know, the guys that get always strike first with a reroll to hit against everyone.
People will always decry VC's as broken & OP because we can not only bring back our (un)dead, but grow new units of the game's worst troops & then further re-inforce those units as well!
And as bas as HE players complaing about us being OP are, it's a helluva lot worse when the most vocal complaining is coming from;
a) The DE player who runs double hydra, unkillable pendant lord + Lv4 shadow sorceress.
b) The Skaven player who runs double abombs + MSU slave traps in a skyre SAD list.
c) The WoC player who runs the tzeentch chosenstar + 2x khorne great weapon marauder hordes.
HE's are honestly pretty balanced outside of Teclis and a few magic items I find. Those other 3 are horrible match-ups even when we're running our own filth list!
High Elves are a pretty mediocre army (if that) Ive never understood why people complain about them striking first with rerolls.. who cares, they die so easily on return attacks and then cant beat steadfast. Without teclis its a joke
Kirasu wrote:High Elves are a pretty mediocre army (if that) Ive never understood why people complain about them striking first with rerolls.. who cares, they die so easily on return attacks and then cant beat steadfast. Without teclis its a joke
Its Warhammer, anyone could and would complain about almost anything
Kirasu wrote:High Elves are a pretty mediocre army (if that) Ive never understood why people complain about them striking first with rerolls.. who cares, they die so easily on return attacks and then cant beat steadfast. Without teclis its a joke
Its Warhammer, anyone could and would complain about almost anything
I completely everyone is going to have something to complain about because all the armies are different. That is the point every army has it's streangths and weaknesses if every army was soo awsome and able to do everything there would be no srtategy. Without strategy it would be no fun it would just be rushing your guys across the table and hitting your opponet and just rolling dice no fun at all, but with certain armies good at certain things and terrible at others, haveing really cool rules and really crapy rules at the same time makes it fun and a challenge every time. Sorry about the rant but I hate hearing about overpowered armies.
Soo vampire counts out in 14 days on my birthday super excited i bet nobody can gues what i want for my birthday
Hey doese anyone know if the Cairn Wraiths and Tomb Banshee are going to be able to be taken as special and/or hero choices?
-Loki- wrote:And man, his and Mannfreds swords are the best swords GW have done. They actually look like two handed swords that can cleave through things.
This, I love.
I tried to use one on a DE dreadlord I had to attempt to vamp him up...it looked stupidly oversized XD
decoy101 wrote:From what I've heard banshees and wrathes are now lords not special any more
Wrong on both. They were never special, they were rare. Now they are heroes, not lords, though we don't know if the rare choice has been removed and won't until we got the army book.
I stand corrected Loki you are correct they were never special they are rare. I really hope they dont take away that option though I had a really great idea with the present army book to have an almost entirely ethereal army list and was hoping i could carry that over to the new army book.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if they did move them to only heroes. The rare section of the book is now getting quite crowded - Blood Knights, Black Coach, Mortis Engine, Varghulf and Terrorgheist.
Moving them to the heroes section gives the army something different - cheap combat characters. Otherwise you can only take Wight Kings or Vampires for that role
Leaving them there in Rare as well gives more options, but that section really is a bit crowded now.
Yeah, Hexwraiths are Special. 5 with a Hellwraith (Champion) are 160, so if you assume 10 points for the Hellwraith, you're looking at 30 per Hexwraith. They're not cheap.
Does anybody have an idea whether the Von Carstein standard has raised detailing on the image (so, could I put my own design on there)? It's hard to see in the picture on the first page.
Just saw this over on Warseer from anthoriam who found this info on a spanish website;
From a spanish website:
Dark Akolyth: 12.5 skavenslaves
+D3 for Nehek
Quick Blood: 15 skavenslaves
ASF
Curse of Widerganger: 27.5 skavenslaves
+1 W
Red Fury: 25 skavenslaves
same as before, can be used with 2HW
Expert Hit: 7.5 skavenslaves
trade in all attacks for 1 with HKB
Dreadknight: 5 skavenslaves
+2 WS, must issue challenges if no superoir fighter present
Creatures of the night: 5 skavenslaves
increase bats, batswarms & wolves beyond starting size
Forbidden Knowledge: 12.5 skavenslaves
access to rulebook lores (doesn't get to know all spells)
items:
Blade of deathly pain: 37.5 skavenslaves
frenzy, something else, flaming attacks
deathly shriek (similar to banshee?)
If you don't cause a wound in combat, wearer is killed instantly
Leichentuch: 20 skavenslaves
+1 AS, all models in basecontact get no bonuses to their strength & ASL
Banner of the Barrows: 25skavenslaves
Same as
Screaming Banner: 12.5 skavenslaves
Same as
Black Periapt: 27.5 skavenslaves
Stores 2 dice
Staff of Flaming Death: 20 skavenslaves
bound 3+, similar to flame cage
Book of Arkhan: 12.5 skavenslaves
bound 3+, doesn't burn out, same as
Cursed Book: 17.5 skavenslaves
sacrifice D3 power dice to get off a random spell of six (miasma, withering, some others) as a bound with the minimal complexity
Staff of Damnation: ¿?
bound 4+, all models in 6 inches get +1 attack
LazzurusMan wrote:Blade of deathly pain sounds terrible, I'll most likely kill myself more often than I do the enemy :/
If we keep seperate powers vs magic items alotment, then that sword could honestly be alot of fun. It's not the type of weapon you send into the enemy's hard-as-nails deathstar, rather you combo it with say the ASF power and send the guy into those T3/4 lightly armoured units like swordmasters or greatswords and start slicing & dicing whole ranks. Plus, it's heavily rumored we get basic equipment options in the list entries instead of being forced into over-costed powers now, so it should still be possible to run the sword bearer with a 2+ save. You won't have a ward save, or just a super basic one, but if you line up against S3/4 units, your armour should suffice.
It would also likely combo well in a small bodyguard unit like black knights who can be fully effective even when running only a 3 or 4 model wide frontage to negate incoming attacks.
Or else I might be tempted to try it with a Lord on foot w/'uber killy sword of death & pain, dragonhelm, seed of rebirth. Back him up with a mortis engine for a 5+ regen/2++ vs flaming attacks. Only KB is a real scare factor and this guy could really be at home in say a unit of ghouls or even skeletons ranked deep with a wraith and/or banshee thrown in as well!
It's risky for sure, but I wouldn't write it off as utterly useless just yet! (well, it *will* be totally pants if power/items get rolled into just a single 100pts cap obviously .)
Wait, no beguile? No courtly power at all? Argh!
I was believing GW include like, about one power for each bloodline, but I see no Lahmia-related ones. Only lots of Blood Knightly stuff.
Such a fool, I am, trusting GW...
Edit: Unless... We have heard of this Ghoul King with Poison and Hatred. Maybe, just maybe there will be some equivalent...
Just saw this over on Warseer from anthoriam who found this info on a spanish website;
From a spanish website:
Dark Akolyth: 12.5 skavenslaves
+D3 for Nehek
Quick Blood: 15 skavenslaves
ASF
Curse of Widerganger: 27.5 skavenslaves
+1 W
Red Fury: 25 skavenslaves
same as before, can be used with 2HW
Expert Hit: 7.5 skavenslaves
trade in all attacks for 1 with HKB
Dreadknight: 5 skavenslaves
+2 WS, must issue challenges if no superoir fighter present
Creatures of the night: 5 skavenslaves
increase bats, batswarms & wolves beyond starting size
Forbidden Knowledge: 12.5 skavenslaves
access to rulebook lores (doesn't get to know all spells)
items:
Blade of deathly pain: 37.5 skavenslaves
frenzy, something else, flaming attacks
deathly shriek (similar to banshee?)
If you don't cause a wound in combat, wearer is killed instantly
Leichentuch: 20 skavenslaves
+1 AS, all models in basecontact get no bonuses to their strength & ASL
Banner of the Barrows: 25skavenslaves
Same as
Screaming Banner: 12.5 skavenslaves
Same as
Black Periapt: 27.5 skavenslaves
Stores 2 dice
Staff of Flaming Death: 20 skavenslaves
bound 3+, similar to flame cage
Book of Arkhan: 12.5 skavenslaves
bound 3+, doesn't burn out, same as
Cursed Book: 17.5 skavenslaves
sacrifice D3 power dice to get off a random spell of six (miasma, withering, some others) as a bound with the minimal complexity
Staff of Damnation: ¿?
bound 4+, all models in 6 inches get +1 attack
Thus far, I'm loving these rumors!
Just so you guys are aware, this list is not complete. White Dwarf already mentions vampiric powers not listed here, such as Master of the Black Arts, which grants the ability to reroll 1 power dice each magic phase.
It's still a lord only choice, so it's still making your army vulnerable to mass crumble.
But, there's also a small tidbit in White Dwarf about the army 'crumbling until another skilled practioner of Necromancy can take over', so you might be able to transfer generalship to another vampire or Necromancer, making combat lords a bit more viable.
-Loki- wrote:Yeah, Hexwraiths are Special. 5 with a Hellwraith (Champion) are 160, so if you assume 10 points for the Hellwraith, you're looking at 30 per Hexwraith. They're not cheap.
-Loki- wrote:Yeah, Hexwraiths are Special. 5 with a Hellwraith (Champion) are 160, so if you assume 10 points for the Hellwraith, you're looking at 30 per Hexwraith. They're not cheap.
They look cheap to me.
Speaking of cheap at least blood knights are only $99 now.
Just saw this over on Warseer from anthoriam who found this info on a spanish website;
From a spanish website:
Dark Akolyth: 12.5 skavenslaves
+D3 for Nehek
Quick Blood: 15 skavenslaves
ASF
Curse of Widerganger: 27.5 skavenslaves
+1 W
Red Fury: 25 skavenslaves
same as before, can be used with 2HW
Expert Hit: 7.5 skavenslaves
trade in all attacks for 1 with HKB
Dreadknight: 5 skavenslaves
+2 WS, must issue challenges if no superoir fighter present
Creatures of the night: 5 skavenslaves
increase bats, batswarms & wolves beyond starting size
Forbidden Knowledge: 12.5 skavenslaves
access to rulebook lores (doesn't get to know all spells)
items:
Blade of deathly pain: 37.5 skavenslaves
frenzy, something else, flaming attacks
deathly shriek (similar to banshee?)
If you don't cause a wound in combat, wearer is killed instantly
Leichentuch: 20 skavenslaves
+1 AS, all models in basecontact get no bonuses to their strength & ASL
Banner of the Barrows: 25skavenslaves
Same as
Screaming Banner: 12.5 skavenslaves
Same as
Black Periapt: 27.5 skavenslaves
Stores 2 dice
Staff of Flaming Death: 20 skavenslaves
bound 3+, similar to flame cage
Book of Arkhan: 12.5 skavenslaves
bound 3+, doesn't burn out, same as
Cursed Book: 17.5 skavenslaves
sacrifice D3 power dice to get off a random spell of six (miasma, withering, some others) as a bound with the minimal complexity
Staff of Damnation: ¿?
bound 4+, all models in 6 inches get +1 attack
Thus far, I'm loving these rumors!
Just so you guys are aware, this list is not complete. White Dwarf already mentions vampiric powers not listed here, such as Master of the Black Arts, which grants the ability to reroll 1 power dice each magic phase.
Oh, thank you, thank you!
Also, I consider Hexwraiths to be fairly cheap at 30 points, considering the current Wraiths aren't mounted and counting in at 50 points.
Sure, a lot of things have changed since they were released, but I'd say it easily could have been worse.
I hope they don't mess up the black coach. Also wish we weren't losing the regen banner but knew it was coming. Hopefully they move the blood knights to specials, I own so many and can't hardly field them. Liking everything I've read and seen so far, really want the coven throne. They mentioned a vamp lord on abyssal terror? I guess another new model. Less then 2 weeks now so counting down.
-Loki- wrote:Yeah, Hexwraiths are Special. 5 with a Hellwraith (Champion) are 160, so if you assume 10 points for the Hellwraith, you're looking at 30 per Hexwraith. They're not cheap.
They look cheap to me.
Keep in mind that;
a) the current wraith unit is almost certainly dissappearing from the book as wraiths/banshees are now hero options.
b) hexwraiths are rumored to be only 1 wound each and likely 2 attacks, so that's a fair decrease in terms of killing power compared to the current unit of hero-statlines floating about!
c) rumored that only the general grants a marching bubble, so the hexwraiths will get 1 turn of super fast movement and then be likely about the speed of marching infantry.
They'll be annoying for sure, but they're not 'uber killy to most ranked units and 1 bad round of rolling in combat will likely have them popping from unstable wounds.
AzureDeath wrote:I hope they don't mess up the black coach. Also wish we weren't losing the regen banner but knew it was coming.
We still don't have the full item list. The spanish list was missing things. So we don't know yet.
AzureDeath wrote:Hopefully they move the blood knights to specials, I own so many and can't hardly field them.
Nope, still Rare.
AzureDeath wrote:Liking everything I've read and seen so far, really want the coven throne. They mentioned a vamp lord on abyssal terror? I guess another new model.
There is no vampire mounted on Abyssal Terror in white dwarf, so it's going to be an old model redone in finecast. Also note it was under Finecast Recasts.
They likely mean this monstrosity.
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Experiment 626 wrote:c) rumored that only the general grants a marching bubble, so the hexwraiths will get 1 turn of super fast movement and then be likely about the speed of marching infantry.
The Hexwraiths cost a bit more than a regular human knight, but will rely on Ethereal for armor so if a wizard even gives them a stern glance they'll fold like origami. I think 30 points is a fair price... not really cheap but not too expensive.
Cirronimbus wrote:The Hexwraiths cost a bit more than a regular human knight, but will rely on Ethereal for armor so if a wizard even gives them a stern glance they'll fold like origami. I think 30 points is a fair price... not really cheap but not too expensive.
Not being able to march after the first turn is going to be enough of a nerf since fast cav are ment to revolve around their speedy movement!
I plan to try out a unit for war machine & missile troop hunting, as these guys will likely be alot better at it than say, a 'frenzied' Ld-poop vargulf or Ld-who-knows varghiests.
Tomb King wrote:Etherals cant join squads still so I never take wraiths and banshee's. Im gonna miss spawning spirit host bases with wind of undeath. :(
Err, yeah, ethereal hereos can join units - just look at the people who want to run skeleton units with 5 Wraiths as the front rank. Though I think it's the other way around - a non-ethereal hero can't join an ethereal unit.
I was pretty surprised by the Black Knight kit. It's the same level as other 5 model boxes of plastic cavalry, but being a dual kit, I assumed GW to price it a band or two higher.
Tomb King wrote:Etherals cant join squads still so I never take wraiths and banshee's. Im gonna miss spawning spirit host bases with wind of undeath. :(
Err, yeah, ethereal hereos can join units - just look at the people who want to run skeleton units with 5 Wraiths as the front rank. Though I think it's the other way around - a non-ethereal hero can't join an ethereal unit.
Wow, im an idiot. Could of been running them all this time
-Loki- wrote:I was pretty surprised by the Black Knight kit. It's the same level as other 5 model boxes of plastic cavalry, but being a dual kit, I assumed GW to price it a band or two higher.
I guess they want to sell a lot of them?
Not just that, they probably know they're competing with a certain company's offerings as well.
The Crypt Horror/Vargheist(Crypt Horrors only for me though) kit is priced a bit high, but I'm waiting to see how many can be fielded/what role they'd likely play in my force to make a decision on whether or not to buy any.
Kroothawk wrote:Repackaged Batallion (20 skeletons, 20 ghouls, 10 Dire Woves, 1 corpse cart, $115.00) on 18th February
Just saw that. That's actually something I want. If I grab 2, that brings me to 70 Skeletons, 50 Ghouls, 20 Dire Wolves and 3 Corpse Carts.
That's 30 skeletons short of my 2 hordes of 50, but gives me the amount of Ghouls I want, 2 good blocks of Dire Wolves, and some more Corpse Carts, one of which I can convert to be a Necromancer mount.
Methinks I'm going to save and grab these from Dicebucket.
-Loki- wrote:Yeah, Hexwraiths are Special. 5 with a Hellwraith (Champion) are 160, so if you assume 10 points for the Hellwraith, you're looking at 30 per Hexwraith. They're not cheap.
They look cheap to me.
Keep in mind that;
a) the current wraith unit is almost certainly dissappearing from the book as wraiths/banshees are now hero options.
b) hexwraiths are rumored to be only 1 wound each and likely 2 attacks, so that's a fair decrease in terms of killing power compared to the current unit of hero-statlines floating about!
c) rumored that only the general grants a marching bubble, so the hexwraiths will get 1 turn of super fast movement and then be likely about the speed of marching infantry.
They'll be annoying for sure, but they're not 'uber killy to most ranked units and 1 bad round of rolling in combat will likely have them popping from unstable wounds.
LunaHound wrote:If that release does turn out to be $47, be prepared. Thats GW testing water to raise the $44.50 items to $47 ( Minotaur, troll, killa kan, alike )
Gold...ghiests?
Doesn't have the same ring to it as Gold Swords...
Kirasu wrote:That's cool. I wish they'd go back and make all heros be able to take the big monster mounts as you'd actually see them used for once
At least give the thralls the ability to take an abyss(m)al terror. I think the dragon though should stay as a 'lord only' option though because they're supposed to be damn rare and it takes a helluva lot to re-animate a dragon's corpse and then control it!
Kirasu wrote:That's cool. I wish they'd go back and make all heros be able to take the big monster mounts as you'd actually see them used for once
At least give the thralls the ability to take an abyss(m)al terror. I think the dragon though should stay as a 'lord only' option though because they're supposed to be damn rare and it takes a helluva lot to re-animate a dragon's corpse and then control it!
Except no-one has to reanimate a Zombie Dragon. Apparently there are lots of Zombie Dragons running around on the Plain of Bones (East of World's Edge Mountains).
Apparently Vampires go there to hunt for Zombie Dragons.
I never really understood the point of that piece of fluff, but oh well
I don't know what army book you're reading, but it explains it pretty clearly.
The Plain of Bones was an ancestral "death ground" for Dragons. They flew there when they knew their deaths were upon them. After the Winds of Chaos began stirring, the land has become soaked in Dark Magic---causing the dead to stir once more.
It's the same reason Sylvania had tons of Undead even before Vlad came into power.
Kanluwen wrote:I don't know what army book you're reading, but it explains it pretty clearly.
The Plain of Bones was an ancestral "death ground" for Dragons. They flew there when they knew their deaths were upon them. After the Winds of Chaos began stirring, the land has become soaked in Dark Magic---causing the dead to stir once more.
It's the same reason Sylvania had tons of Undead even before Vlad came into power.
I know, I know... It's just that they make it seem like the place is teeming with Zombie Dragons - Which it probably is, considering every dying dragon went there to die.
To me, it kind of lessens the awesomeness of having your own Zombie Dragon - All you have to do is go to the Plain of Bones and fetch one!
What I meant by not understanding that point of fluff is why they needed to have it like that, an area filled with undead Dragons. Why not just... Make them rare and widespread? That way they would seem, you know, rare and of legendary status... Not packed into some Undead zoo, if you understand what I mean.
You've missed the other point that is implied in the fluff then I think.
Only Vampires can make it to the Plain of Bones. Even then, not every single one of them has the strength to bind a Zombie Dragon to their will. Most likely are put down by the Zombie Dragons during the attempt to bind one to their will.
! Those models a fething beautiful! I hate the army book cover but damn... Nice thing that 
(so to speak)
The mini Varghulfs are ok and it's good to have new Black Knights at last. I like the characters and long may the single plastic frame models continue.
of 2012.
The cover is uninspiring.
. Seriously, she is the most voluptuous vampiress I have ever seen. It doesn't work, somehow...I always think of vampires as emaciated.
As it happens kenshin your avatar is rather appropriate..
)
