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Post by: Kirasu
They'd also sell more monster kits if they stopped restricting them to lords who never want to take them anyway due to the horrid template rules
GW: You'd get more $$$$$.. and you might actually see a dragon on the board for the first time in years!
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Post by: Kroothawk
BramGaunt wrote:A few tidbits about the book:
1. All units and all characters from the book will be covered by the initial release.
Curse of undeath allows the caster of a vampiric spell to recover 1 wound, may be used ro heal another character.
Hexwraizhs have magical flaming attacks that ignore Armorsaves. Same goes for the fly through attack.
Coven throne is a mount for vampire lorsds or heroes.
Wraiths remain a rare choice led by a banshee. They can be used as characters aswell.
Dire Wolves get +1 s if they charge.
Tomb guard keep killing blow and magical attacks.
Kemmler restores 1 tomb guard or skelleton for each kill he does in close combat. He can be erheral or flying by using his cloak.
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Post by: Rivet
Lolcanoe wrote:http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=19800015a
video at the bottom
This made my morning
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Post by: Flashman
Sigh another dumb teaser video for something that the entire world already knows is being released (maybe not North Korea).
And I wish they'd stop using "man who thinks he can do a deep mysterious voice".
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Post by: 4oursword
Is that the voice actor for DoW Dreadnoughts?
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Post by: Tomb King
Lolcanoe wrote:http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=19800015a
video at the bottom
7/1/2012?
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Post by: Rivet
Tomb King wrote:Lolcanoe wrote:http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=19800015a
video at the bottom
7/1/2012?
That is when the White Dwarf comes out so it would also be the official announcement date.
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Post by: Hulksmash
Tomb King wrote:Lolcanoe wrote:http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=19800015a
video at the bottom
7/1/2012?
Remember, it's English style so 7/1/2012 is January 7, 2012.
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Post by: Kirasu
Its just so absurd that GW thinks that they giving us some exclusive release when people already know what's coming out. GW, the iron curtain has failed how about lifting it and giving us previews more than a week in advance
A lot of people don't have 1000$ ready to go at a moments notice for plastic crack
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Post by: Hulksmash
@kirasu
At this point it's a pretty solid bet the iron curtain is due to the LoTR license. You'll see it lift after the 2nd half of The Hobbit is released in theatres.
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Post by: Kirasu
Lol so 4 more years of it.. yeah I heard that as well, I'm just curious why it can't be ONLY for LOTR?
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Post by: Hulksmash
Probably something to do with the contract and renewal. I know that when I worked for GW back during the first run of LoTR movies there were some pretty strict rules in place. It's a lot of money in GW's pocket.
And it's only until December of 2013 
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Post by: BrassScorpion
Kirasu wrote:They'd also sell more monster kits if they stopped restricting them to lords who never want to take them anyway due to the horrid template rules
GW: You'd get more $$$$$.. and you might actually see a dragon on the board for the first time in years!
It would be nice to see more large monsters on the table wouldn't it? Especially since there are so many great large models now. If it's plastic it's fantastic, if it's Finecast on the shelf it will stay fast. Or, if it's styrene to have it you will be keen, if it's resin then buying it's in question. Seriously, the plastic kits are even getting way out there in price, but at least they usually have lots of options and some are now large and spectacular. The Finecast stuff is usually so overpriced I avoid most of it. As for information secrecy, they trashed at-home service for White Dwarf in order to prevent new release pics from it from getting out before Advance Order postings on their site, yet every month they continue to leak out early anyway as they did in this very topic thread. All they did with that is get a lot of people to cancel their White Dwarf subscriptions. I'm planning to let mine lapse for the first time in 2 decades when it ends later this year unless service, price or both seriously improve by then and neither is very likely right now. They haven't had a good subscription bonus deal in about 4 years.
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Post by: silent25
Kirasu wrote:Lol so 4 more years of it.. yeah I heard that as well, I'm just curious why it can't be ONLY for LOTR?
Would you risk someone sending out a pic of "an awesome new dragon for Fantasy!" and then discovered they just leaked the design for Smaug a year early? Remember, movie studios spend more on advertisement for a movie they know will bomb than GW makes in an entire year. They would sue GW arguing that the leak ruined the marketability of the movie that should have made several hundred million dollars. The original LotR trilogy made one billion dollars world wide.
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Post by: BrassScorpion
This is the best quote I've seen about the new VC releases yet. A comment posted on the BoLS blog today.
Limey_ElJonson wrote:
All that Finecast. The models will live up to the fluff - won't survive in the sun!
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Post by: Kirasu
silent25 wrote:Kirasu wrote:Lol so 4 more years of it.. yeah I heard that as well, I'm just curious why it can't be ONLY for LOTR?
Would you risk someone sending out a pic of "an awesome new dragon for Fantasy!" and then discovered they just leaked the design for Smaug a year early? Remember, movie studios spend more on advertisement for a movie they know will bomb than GW makes in an entire year. They would sue GW arguing that the leak ruined the marketability of the movie that should have made several hundred million dollars. The original LotR trilogy made one billion dollars world wide.
Stuff gets leaked anyway.. New Line must be giving them bags and bags of gold because they're making a lot of retailers and fans pissed off by doing something that doesn't even seem to matter
It's even more crazy considering LOTR is basically dead as a game for the most part.. Would anyone notice a LOTR leak?
I do understand the impact of contractual obligations, I just hope GW is getting enough money to counter act the bad imagine they're getting with the people who buy their products
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Post by: LazzurusMan
Kroothawk wrote:14th January releases and US prices provided by a birdy  :
New:
Warhammer: Vampire Counts 96pp Full Colour Army Book ($41.25)
WBM: Vampire Counts 7 Large Format Spell Cards ($4.95)
Vampire Counts Coven Throne / Mortis Engine Plastic Box ($57.75)
Vampire Counts Black Knights / Hexwraiths 5 Fig PlasticBox ($29.75)
Vampire Counts Vargheists / Crypt Horrors 3 Fig Plastic Box ($47.00)
Vampire Counts Wight King 1 Plastic Fig Clampack ($13.25)
Isabella Von Carstein 1 Finecast Fig Clampack ($15.25)
Krell, Lord of Undeath 1 Finecast Fig Clampack ($18.25)
Winged Vampire Lord 1 Finecast Fig Clampack ($22.25)
Von Carstein Upgrade Pack 13 Piece Finecast Clamback ($19.75)
Finecast Recasts:
Coffin Lid Shields 8 Piece Pack ($13.25)
Heinrich Kemmler 1 Fig Clampack ($15.25)
Mannfred The Acolyte 1 Fig Clampack ($18.25)
Mounted Vampire Lord 1 Fig Clampack ($25.50)
Vampire Counts Bat Swarm 2 Base Clampack ($24.75)
Vampire Counts Black Coach 1 Fig Box ($53.75)
Vampire Counts Fell Bats 3 Fig Box ($49.50)
Vampire Counts Mounted Wight King 1 Fig Clampack ($25.50)
Vampire Counts Necromancer with Skull 1 Fig Clampack ($15.25)
Vampire Counts Necromancer with Staff 1 Fig Clampack ($15.25)
Vampire Counts Necromancer with Sword 1 Fig Clampack ($15.25)
Vampire Counts Spirit Host 1 Base Clampack ($18.25)
Vampire Lord on Abyssal Terror 1 Fig Box ($49.50)
Wight King Battle Standard Bearer 1 Fig Clampack ($18.25)
Repackaged Batallion (20 skeletons, 20 ghouls, 10 Dire Woves, 1 corpse cart, $115.00) on 18th February
Why for the love of gak make these into finecast???
The horrible one get recasted, while the amazing lahmian models stay as they are...WHY GW???
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Post by: Kirasu
Would have been cheaper to melt the Vampire lord on abyssal terror.. No one is going to buy it anyway.. same with those bat models lol
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Post by: LazzurusMan
Lolcanoe wrote:http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=19800015a
video at the bottom
feth me that made me jump XD
Was expecting something less from GW Automatically Appended Next Post: And I have never seen any of those models used. Well...not very often at least.
I, for one, will be trying to make my own models...kitbashing and converting as much as possible...possibly casting my on bits if I can.
You never know, they might even surprise us with new Lahmian models *crosses fingers so hard they snap*
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Post by: BrassScorpion
I know someone who used an entire Garden of Morr kit as a rank filler for his massive Ghoul horde as a thematic money saver.
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Post by: Dysartes
Hulksmash wrote:Remember, it's English style so 7/1/2012 is January 7, 2012.
It isn't our fault you lot write the dates incorrectly
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Post by: LazzurusMan
lol,
I remember using gravestones with arms popping out as I only had the gravestones and the arms XD
Looked alright though as I had other skellies...about 6...this is back when I first got into fantasy XD Automatically Appended Next Post: Dysartes wrote:Hulksmash wrote:Remember, it's English style so 7/1/2012 is January 7, 2012.
It isn't our fault you lot write the dates incorrectly
+1
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Post by: -Loki-
Kirasu wrote:Would have been cheaper to melt the Vampire lord on abyssal terror.. No one is going to buy it anyway.. same with those bat models lol
Those bats are going to hit the ~$80au price band. I can't see any Australians actually buying them. They look downright terrible. Especially when Masq does giant bats in the same style but far better and cheaper.
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Post by: Ozymandias
Dysartes wrote:Hulksmash wrote:Remember, it's English style so 7/1/2012 is January 7, 2012.
It isn't our fault you lot write the dates incorrectly
Trust the brits to do everything backwards. What's next, driving on the wrong side of the road?!
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Post by: Kroothawk
Hulksmash wrote:At this point it's a pretty solid bet the iron curtain is due to the LoTR license. You'll see it lift after the 2nd half of The Hobbit is released in theatres.
I can't follow the rumour's logic, that you are not allowed to release news on Necrons in November 2011, because there will be a Hobbit movie end of 2012. Esp. as GW management thought "not releasing info is the best marketing" before.
LazzurusMan wrote:The horrible one get recasted, while the amazing lahmian models stay as they are...WHY GW???
Not getting the Finecast treatment is a reward for being amazing sculpts
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Post by: ceorron
Dysartes wrote:Hulksmash wrote:Remember, it's English style so 7/1/2012 is January 7, 2012.
It isn't our fault you lot write the dates incorrectly
What do you mean, they are in ascending order smallest to biggest, day then month then year. What sort of order is month then day then year. Sigh
Anyway, with such a big release i'd be very surprised if there are any vampire count releases for a long time after this. I'm also confused why update so many BAD models to finecast, they have had their time I don't think anyone will buy them?
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Post by: Dysartes
ceorron wrote:Dysartes wrote:Hulksmash wrote:Remember, it's English style so 7/1/2012 is January 7, 2012.
It isn't our fault you lot write the dates incorrectly
What do you mean, they are in ascending order smallest to biggest, day then month then year. What sort of order is month then day then year. Sigh
Anyway, with such a big release i'd be very surprised if there are any vampire count releases for a long time after this. I'm also confused why update so many BAD models to finecast, they have had their time I don't think anyone will buy them?
*Looks at his location flag*
I was referring to the confused Americans, ceorron...
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Post by: ceorron
Oh sorry, yeah.
Agreed exactly as Dysartes said.
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Post by: Tomb King
Dysartes wrote:Hulksmash wrote:Remember, it's English style so 7/1/2012 is January 7, 2012.
It isn't our fault you lot write the dates incorrectly
lol, now I know why the military does it. Try adding time to that equation it gets even more confusing lol.
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Post by: silent25
Kirasu wrote:
I do understand the impact of contractual obligations, I just hope GW is getting enough money to counter act the bad imagine they're getting with the people who buy their products
Given I recall GW revenue nearly doubled during the LotR boom, I would say chances look good.
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Post by: AzureDeath
Do you think the vargheists will have the deadly howl rule? This would make them worth taking in my army. I also hope that they don't take the wraiths outta the rare choice as a unit, I already bought 5 of the new ones.
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Post by: -Loki-
AzureDeath wrote:Do you think the vargheists will have the deadly howl rule? This would make them worth taking in my army. I also hope that they don't take the wraiths outta the rare choice as a unit, I already bought 5 of the new ones.
It's been confirmed they're staying in the Rare slot as well as heroes.
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Post by: Lockark
-Loki- wrote:Kirasu wrote:Would have been cheaper to melt the Vampire lord on abyssal terror.. No one is going to buy it anyway.. same with those bat models lol
Those bats are going to hit the ~$80au price band. I can't see any Australians actually buying them. They look downright terrible. Especially when Masq does giant bats in the same style but far better and cheaper.
Going to be useing reaper Dire Bats and Bat swarms my self if thier any good in the new book. They look ALOT better, and don't coast nearly as much.
-Loki- wrote:AzureDeath wrote:Do you think the vargheists will have the deadly howl rule? This would make them worth taking in my army. I also hope that they don't take the wraiths outta the rare choice as a unit, I already bought 5 of the new ones.
It's been confirmed they're staying in the Rare slot as well as heroes.
huh. That's a interesting choice I have to say.
O.o
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Post by: -Loki-
Kirasu wrote:Its just so absurd that GW thinks that they giving us some exclusive release when people already know what's coming out. GW, the iron curtain has failed how about lifting it and giving us previews more than a week in advance
A lot of people don't have 1000$ ready to go at a moments notice for plastic crack
They aren't responsible for shops breaking the street date for the magazine. Hell, the store I got mine from had it out a week earlier than they do for other issues, likely due to wanting to sell it before they went for their holiday. This is uncontrollable.
Releasing the official news before the announcment date would be something Newline would frown on considering the lucrative contract they have.
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Post by: marielle
Hulksmash wrote:Tomb King wrote:Lolcanoe wrote:http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=19800015a
video at the bottom
7/1/2012?
Remember, it's English style so 7/1/2012 is January 7, 2012.
Actually it's 7th January 2012.
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Post by: Kirasu
-Loki- wrote:Kirasu wrote:Its just so absurd that GW thinks that they giving us some exclusive release when people already know what's coming out. GW, the iron curtain has failed how about lifting it and giving us previews more than a week in advance
A lot of people don't have 1000$ ready to go at a moments notice for plastic crack
They aren't responsible for shops breaking the street date for the magazine. Hell, the store I got mine from had it out a week earlier than they do for other issues, likely due to wanting to sell it before they went for their holiday. This is uncontrollable.
Releasing the official news before the announcment date would be something Newline would frown on considering the lucrative contract they have.
Exactly my point, if you can't control it then why bother trying
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Post by: Rivet
The 'What's New Today" over at GW hinted again at Vampire Counts this Friday.
I know, I know, we are all already aware of this but I like the effort they put into building hype, at least in the week prior to release.
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Post by: 4oursword
marielle wrote:Hulksmash wrote:Tomb King wrote:Lolcanoe wrote:http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=19800015a
video at the bottom
7/1/2012?
Remember, it's English style so 7/1/2012 is January 7, 2012.
Actually it's 7th January 2012.
Well played, sir!
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Post by: -Loki-
Kirasu wrote:-Loki- wrote:Kirasu wrote:Its just so absurd that GW thinks that they giving us some exclusive release when people already know what's coming out. GW, the iron curtain has failed how about lifting it and giving us previews more than a week in advance
A lot of people don't have 1000$ ready to go at a moments notice for plastic crack
They aren't responsible for shops breaking the street date for the magazine. Hell, the store I got mine from had it out a week earlier than they do for other issues, likely due to wanting to sell it before they went for their holiday. This is uncontrollable.
Releasing the official news before the announcment date would be something Newline would frown on considering the lucrative contract they have.
Exactly my point, if you can't control it then why bother trying
BEcause if they want that Hobbit license, they have to try. It's likely part of the agreement with Newline that this is the one thing they can not control. While it might seem stupid that once the new is out they still don't announce anything and play dumb, but they have to, because they want to keep the Hobbit contract.
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Post by: Kroothawk
BramGaunt wrote:I just had a good hearthy read through the White Dwarf and discovered a few more tidbits. Most has been covered, but there are a few diamonds hidden. Befor you ask, no, I don't have a WD and therefor, no more pictures. I just took some notes. Smartphones should be forbidden.
First of all: A promotion for dreadfleet. (I am working on my public speeches abilities and I learned you should start with a joke.)(Disclaimer: I don't mean that dreadfleet itself is the joke- I love the game, but I am a little sick of all the promotion.)
6th Vampire Spell for example uses the small template. Each unit hit suffers D6 S3 hits per rank it has, which ignore armour saves.
Lore attribute allows to heal characters. I think this was covered already.
Invocation of Nehek affects ALL undead units within 6". You can boost the effect to 12 or 18 ".
Raise Dead allows to summon up to 15 Zombies or Skelletons.
The Corpse Cart provides ASF to all undead units if it is targetted or affected by a vampiric Spell.
Blood Knights have 3 S7 Attacks while charging - Frenzy included.
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Post by: -Loki-
The only new part there is the Blood Knights.
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Post by: Sergeant Horse
Kirasu wrote:-Loki- wrote:Kirasu wrote:Its just so absurd that GW thinks that they giving us some exclusive release when people already know what's coming out. GW, the iron curtain has failed how about lifting it and giving us previews more than a week in advance
A lot of people don't have 1000$ ready to go at a moments notice for plastic crack
They aren't responsible for shops breaking the street date for the magazine. Hell, the store I got mine from had it out a week earlier than they do for other issues, likely due to wanting to sell it before they went for their holiday. This is uncontrollable.
Releasing the official news before the announcment date would be something Newline would frown on considering the lucrative contract they have.
Exactly my point, if you can't control it then why bother trying
It's actually quite genius. By not announcing things to the week before, they spark a great big rumour mill, then they purposely let things leak (Come on, the rumours have been 95% on EVERY release since the blockage), so more people spend time reading the rumours, salvate at the mouth, and talk about the release. I imagine if they had announced it, only 50% of people would actually care, but by NOT announcing and letting "leaks" happen, way more people check it out just for the oooh aaah factor, and they probably grab 75% of people checking it out. Automatically Appended Next Post: -Loki- wrote:The only new part there is the Blood Knights.
thats not new, they were 2 base before, so 3 with frenzy, and base strength 5 goes to 7 with lance charge.
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Post by: Krellnus
Sergeant Horse wrote: -Loki- wrote:The only new part there is the Blood Knights.
thats not new, they were 2 base before, so 3 with frenzy, and base strength 5 goes to 7 with lance charge.
I'm pretty sure he just means that it is 'new' in the sense it's just been confirmed that part hasn't changed.
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Post by: Sukth
This is going to be amazing all in all. My only question is did they keep the seperation of vampiric powers and magic items like 7th editions book or are they going to be where you have your 50/100 point budget on the combination of both?
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Post by: Kirasu
Sorta a shame Blood Knights don't seem to be getting much of a boost.. Oh well, its the problem with all cavalry in 8th
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Post by: kenshin620
Kirasu wrote:Sorta a shame Blood Knights don't seem to be getting much of a boost.. Oh well, its the problem with all cavalry in 8th
Yea, so far it seems the most effective cav are either fast ones or the recent Ogre Mournfangs who are MC and pack a huge punch
Brets have the right idea with less models per rank for a "rank" but they still have problems with big units. With all the momentum that a horse had you'd expect ASF when they charge or something
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Post by: Leenus
How do blood knights get a boost when you raise D6 + caster level per invoke, instead of 1??????
24409
Post by: Matt.Kingsley
AzureDeath wrote:Do you think the vargheists will have the deadly howl rule? This would make them worth taking in my army. I also hope that they don't take the wraiths outta the rare choice as a unit, I already bought 5 of the new ones.
they are making them heroes, using the rules they posted in last September's WD
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Post by: LazzurusMan
Apparently they are both rare and heroes...correct me if I'm wrong...
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Post by: -Loki-
Leenus wrote:How do blood knights get a boost when you raise D6 + caster level per invoke, instead of 1??????
My guess, they don't have the Undead special rule, they have the Vampire special rule. IoN only affects friendly Undead units.
Also, it seems I was reading too much into the Ghoul thing. Reading the boxout for Crypt Horrors last night, they are Undead. It's unlikely Ghouls will not be Undead if Crypt Horrors are, so it seems ghouls should be affected as normal from IoN.
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Post by: Matt.Kingsley
LazzurusMan wrote:Apparently they are both rare and heroes...correct me if I'm wrong...
really? I hope they are!
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Post by: Experiment 626
Kirasu wrote:Sorta a shame Blood Knights don't seem to be getting much of a boost.. Oh well, its the problem with all cavalry in 8th
Blood knights did get a boost as they're now significantly cheaper for the unit including it's command. (a unit of 5 w/full command is 20'ish skaven slaves cheaper now - that's a couple ranks worth of extra skeletons!)
Plus, they get to keep the Blood Keep Banner as an upgrade for a single unit which is pretty meaningfull since you're likely to only ever use 1 unit unless you're playing a 3k+ pts game.
The Kastellan is also rumored to get +1A plus an additional stat boost similar to a black orc champ and for cheaper than you currently pay! (new champ is rumored to cost 7.5 skaven slaves compared to the current cost of 10 skaven slaves!)
I'd say that's a nice boost and easily makes BK's the undisputed 'best' cavalry unit in the game! On a charge with their 3/S7 attacks a piece, they'll hit like monstrous cav without the disadvantage of the super-wide frontage.
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Post by: ZacktheChaosChild
Well the pictures are hard to argue with. This or Chaos Warriors for my first WHFB army? 
Oh the decision.
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Post by: -Loki-
Matt.Kingsley wrote:LazzurusMan wrote:Apparently they are both rare and heroes...correct me if I'm wrong...
really? I hope they are!
They are, was confirmed on Warseer.
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Post by: Matt.Kingsley
:fistpump:
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Post by: Dysartes
-Loki- wrote:They are, was confirmed on Warseer.
I'd still wait until someone holding the new army book confirms it, though, before taking it as proper confirmation, but that's just me.
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Post by: Over9000
Leenus wrote:How do blood knights get a boost when you raise D6 + caster level per invoke, instead of 1??????
Wow /facepalm
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Post by: Hellstorm
Sukth wrote:This is going to be amazing all in all. My only question is did they keep the seperation of vampiric powers and magic items like 7th editions book or are they going to be where you have your 50/100 point budget on the combination of both?
It appears that it will be two different point allowances, just like it is now.
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Post by: Rivet
Hellstorm wrote:Sukth wrote:This is going to be amazing all in all. My only question is did they keep the seperation of vampiric powers and magic items like 7th editions book or are they going to be where you have your 50/100 point budget on the combination of both?
It appears that it will be two different point allowances, just like it is now.
This is a relief!
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Post by: Drake118
Does anyone know if necromancy magic will have the same rules as before, or can you only cast them once like other magic now?
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Post by: DarkStarSabre
I'd assume they'll be once per phase now. They seem to be trying to move away from things being spammed casting wise. And can you imagine the signature being multi-cast on one dice potential?
(Dur hurr, I'll raise 8d6 skeletons for every unit in 6 inches!)
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Post by: James100
They have updated the games workshop website now with new stats and rules. Zombies are now S3 and T3 and corpse carts have changed. Vlad now has heavy armour. Vampire lords are only level one wizards basic and the zombie dragon has gotten a stats increase.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Thank God Vlad now has armor!
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Post by: Rivet
The Varghulf has also been changed. It does not have Vampire or Undead but has Beastial fury, hatred, and regeneration.
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Post by: Sergeant Horse
James100 wrote:They have updated the games workshop website now with new stats and rules. Zombies are now S3 and T3 and corpse carts have changed. Vlad now has heavy armour. Vampire lords are only level one wizards basic and the zombie dragon has gotten a stats increase.
just checked, Vamp lords are level 2 base, same as they were before but you used to be able to upgrade to level 3 and dark acolyte to level 4, I wonder what you have to do now for a level 4 Automatically Appended Next Post: Rivet wrote:The Varghulf has also been changed. It does not have Vampire or Undead but has Beastial fury, hatred, and regeneration.
its Initiative 4 now too
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Post by: Ozymandias
Sergeant Horse wrote:James100 wrote:They have updated the games workshop website now with new stats and rules. Zombies are now S3 and T3 and corpse carts have changed. Vlad now has heavy armour. Vampire lords are only level one wizards basic and the zombie dragon has gotten a stats increase.
just checked, Vamp lords are level 2 base, same as they were before but you used to be able to upgrade to level 3 and dark acolyte to level 4, I wonder what you have to do now for a level 4
Take a Master Necromancer.
I both like it and don't like it. It means I can tool up my Vampire lord for combat and still have a very powerful spell-caster, but it also means I have to take 2 Lord choices which eats away my points.
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Post by: Rivet
Sergeant Horse wrote:James100 wrote:They have updated the games workshop website now with new stats and rules. Zombies are now S3 and T3 and corpse carts have changed. Vlad now has heavy armour. Vampire lords are only level one wizards basic and the zombie dragon has gotten a stats increase.
just checked, Vamp lords are level 2 base, same as they were before but you used to be able to upgrade to level 3 and dark acolyte to level 4, I wonder what you have to do now for a level 4
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rivet wrote:The Varghulf has also been changed. It does not have Vampire or Undead but has Beastial fury, hatred, and regeneration.
its Initiative 4 now too
They mention Vampire Lords in three different locations and not all of them have been updated. If you look at the finecast Vampire Lord (the female aristocratic looking one) that has the new Vamp Lord listing.
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Post by: Sergeant Horse
Rivet wrote:Sergeant Horse wrote:James100 wrote:They have updated the games workshop website now with new stats and rules. Zombies are now S3 and T3 and corpse carts have changed. Vlad now has heavy armour. Vampire lords are only level one wizards basic and the zombie dragon has gotten a stats increase.
just checked, Vamp lords are level 2 base, same as they were before but you used to be able to upgrade to level 3 and dark acolyte to level 4, I wonder what you have to do now for a level 4
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rivet wrote:The Varghulf has also been changed. It does not have Vampire or Undead but has Beastial fury, hatred, and regeneration.
its Initiative 4 now too
They mention Vampire Lords in three different locations and not all of them have been updated. If you look at the finecast Vampire Lord (the female aristocratic looking one) that has the new Vamp Lord listing.
Oh I see it now, they are much more fighty now though Automatically Appended Next Post: Blood Knights are I5 now
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Post by: ph34r
I guess now that Necromancer Lords are back they saw no reason for normal Vampire Lords to go to level 4?
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Post by: Rivet
Well supposedly they can still get up to Level 4 it just costs more.
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Post by: Flashman
Looks like Ghouls are still undead... bah!
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Post by: James100
Sergeant Horse wrote:James100 wrote:They have updated the games workshop website now with new stats and rules. Zombies are now S3 and T3 and corpse carts have changed. Vlad now has heavy armour. Vampire lords are only level one wizards basic and the zombie dragon has gotten a stats increase.
just checked, Vamp lords are level 2 base, same as they were before but you used to be able to upgrade to level 3 and dark acolyte to level 4, I wonder what you have to do now for a level 4
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rivet wrote:The Varghulf has also been changed. It does not have Vampire or Undead but has Beastial fury, hatred, and regeneration.
its Initiative 4 now too
Thats because that entry hasn't been updated yet. the entry im going by is this:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440025a&prodId=prod1160011&rootCatGameStyle=
Thats the old zombie dragon because the new one hasn't been updated yet.
also i think necromancers can get any spell from the lore not just necromancer spells as the new entry for them just calls them a wizard using spells from the lore of vampires while the old said necro spells
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Post by: DarkStarSabre
Ozymandias wrote:Sergeant Horse wrote:James100 wrote:They have updated the games workshop website now with new stats and rules. Zombies are now S3 and T3 and corpse carts have changed. Vlad now has heavy armour. Vampire lords are only level one wizards basic and the zombie dragon has gotten a stats increase.
just checked, Vamp lords are level 2 base, same as they were before but you used to be able to upgrade to level 3 and dark acolyte to level 4, I wonder what you have to do now for a level 4
Take a Master Necromancer.
I both like it and don't like it. It means I can tool up my Vampire lord for combat and still have a very powerful spell-caster, but it also means I have to take 2 Lord choices which eats away my points.
Welcome to every other army. The only exception is Daemons and those are damn expensive for what they do.
Even Chaos Sorcerers aren't that hot in combat.
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Post by: Ozymandias
And frankly Vamps back in 6th used to be the same. Guess I just got used to my Lvl 4 Vamp with Lore of Shadow who also was no slouch in hth.
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Post by: -Loki-
Rivet wrote:The Varghulf has also been changed. It does not have Vampire or Undead but has Beastial fury, hatred, and regeneration.
White dwarf confirms it is a vampire, as well as Vergeists. Guess they just left it off the website.
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Post by: decoy101
Well they wouldn't want to tell everything too early
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Post by: Sukth
Yeah thats why they have refrained from telling everybody about the vampire advance order until tomorrow on the website, hence the lack of todays "Whats New" thing.
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Post by: decoy101
Start preorder at midnight something to look forward too
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Post by: Kroothawk
Advance orders are up. Will add official pics to first post.
BramGaunt wrote:A friend of mine just handed me a complete list of VC Powers and magic items. Im not going to list pointcosts, but i will sort them from cheap to expensive.
Magic Items.
Book of Arkhan, arcane artifact. bound spell lvl 3, move unit spell.
Screaming Banner: fear tests caused by this unit are made with 3d6, the lowest is discarded.
Cursed book, arcane artifact. Sacrifice d3 powerdice to cast 1 random spell determined with a d6 at base cost. 1: shadow signature, 2 shadow 2, 3 shadow 3, 4 death 3, 5 death 4, 6 heaven 3 ( first number is the d6 roll, zhen the lore and what dpell from the lore is cast. )
Staff of the damned: arcane artifact: lvl 4 bound spell, all friendly undead within 6" get +1 a, mounts included
Shroud: magical armour (its not an armor, therefor you can still have heavy armor and a shield.) +1 as. Enemy weapons in b2b (magic and common) do not provide a bonus to S and get the asl special rule.
Staff of fiery death: enchanted item, bound spell, lvl 3
Magic missile. Target enemy unit in 18" range. Suffers d6 s4 flaming hits. If you lose 1 wound it causes a panic test. If the unit is moved during its next turneach model suffers 1s4 hit. Spell ends if the unit moves or at the beginning oh vc's next magic phase.
Banner of the barrows: black knights, tomb guards, wight kings and krell get +1 to hit. Does not affect mounts.
Up to here all items are abailable to heroes.
Black periapt: arcane item, stores 2 power or dispeldice
Blade if agony
Wielder gets +1 a on charge, frenzy and flaming attacks.
If he fails to kill at least 1 enemy in close combat he's removed as a casulty at the end of the game.
Vampiric powers
Dreadknight: +2 ws. Vampire has to accept and issue challenges, as long as there isnt another vampire character or Krell present.
Summond creatures: able to raise direwolves, giant bats and bat swarms above starting size.
Perfect strike: swap all attacks for 1 with heroic killing blow (you don't have to)
Charming: nominate 1 mOdel in b2b, (after challenges are issued) it has to pass a ld check with -3 or has to reroll to hit.
Scary: passed tests for fear caused by the vampire or his unit have to be rerolled. If the enemy unit iswithin range of a bsbearer no rerolls are made (neither for the battlestandar nor for thos power)
Dark acolyte: vampire gets +d3 on casting all levels of invocation of nehek.
Terror: vampire causes terror.
Forbidden knowledge: use 1 lore from the rulebook, expect for lore of life
Dark Aura: all enemy units within 6" suffer -1 ld. Can be combined with orher simmilar effects.
ASF.
Flying (infantery only)
Red fury: bonus attacks for each wound caused. New attacks dont trigger another attack. You get bonusattacks for each wound caused, if you would happen to heroic killing blow an great unclean one you'd get 10 attacks.
Revenant:+1 wound
He-who-must-not-be-named (masterof the dark arts), reroll one of the dice for winds of magic.
The end. I translated the names myself (and in some cases i've been to lazy to do so)
Enjoy.
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Post by: RiTides
Interesting about the magic items/abilities... but I'm not too enthused by the new official pics of the large beasties (ghouls and mini varghulfs).
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Post by: everwynd
Its available for preorder now..
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Post by: bubber
It's all up for advanced order now.
Painting is not that great & didn't realise that Isi is wearing crotchless armour & frilly knickers. I'm not usually a boo-boy - but GW time to grow up.
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Post by: Kroothawk
Kroothawk wrote:Advance orders are up. Will add official pics to first post.
everwynd wrote:Its available for preorder now..
bubber wrote:It's all up for advanced order now.
Oh, and advance orders are up now
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Post by: Phyrexia
Hey look finecast Nagash is available for pre-order.
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Post by: LunaHound
Phyrexia wrote:Hey look finecast Nagash is available for pre-order.
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Post by: Lockark
Phyrexia wrote:Hey look finecast Nagash is available for pre-order.
After looking at the advance orders, I read this and had to look agien because I would of been so confused how I missed that.
XD
I think I shall go to bed now. lol
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Post by: Flashman
Tempted to get Kemler because he always was a great mini.
Not wowed by any of the new stuff except Black Knights which are awesome. I'd still say that the overall VC miniature line is pretty cool. The army book also sounds good but you can keep your Mortis Engine/Coven Throne daftness.
Ridiculous Finecast pricing of the batch = £30 for two fell bats, cruddy minis to begin with and now unaffordable cruddy minis 
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Post by: DarkStarSabre
I'm somewhat amazed that they finecasted those ridiculously ancient Necromancers, especially after releasing the quality new one in plastic.
The newest of the three is the one with a skull and he's from a Warhammer Quest expansion iirc.
But the other two? Seriously? They are so old it's not funny. Those are the oldest models in the VC range. Admittedly not as old as half the Dwarf range but still...
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Post by: Krellnus
Phyrexia wrote:Hey look finecast Nagash is available for pre-order.
Don't see him :(
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
DarkStarSabre wrote:The newest of the three is the one with a skull and he's from a Warhammer Quest expansion iirc.
Wow you're right. I'm amazed to see that model survive into the modern day. I guess it really is cheaper to convert something over to Finecost rather than make a new model. Good thing they're passing those savings onto... themselves.
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Post by: Breotan
DarkStarSabre wrote:I'm somewhat amazed that they finecasted those ridiculously ancient Necromancers...
Your words... eat them.
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Post by: 4oursword
Ok, I now play VC again.
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Post by: LunaHound
Must... fight... temptation....
where are you Tau and Chaos!?
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Post by: 4oursword
Are Cairn Wraiths still special or only heroes now?
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Post by: -Loki-
Both, according to BramGaunt on warseer.
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Post by: BlackRaven1987!!
ok seriously not happy with what happened to my Varhulfs. No undead or vampire rules and they no longer cause terror!!! My favorite unit in the army just took a major hit. For what an initiative increase. So I strike at initiative 4 but no longer cause terror or am immune to psychology or am unbreakable, not to mention why would you take the vampire special rule and the undead special rule considering they are clearly both vampires and undead it states that in thier description. Why would they do this WHY!?!?!? 
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Post by: RiTides
To sell more mini-varghulfs, of course...
Edit: I gotta step away from these threads, the GW hate is rubbing off on me  . But, they do have a habit of nerfing decent units when new options come out... I have a feeling all my large monsters / rare selections for WoC will be obsolete (not that they're owning now or anything) when a new book hits.
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Post by: BlackRaven1987!!
Well the least they could have done is raise the leadership value what is the point now with a leadership of 4. It just frustrates me at least when they were immune to psychology and had unbreakable they were formidable now you can only take one and for what maybe one round of combat before you run away.
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Post by: Experiment 626
BlackRaven1987!! wrote:ok seriously not happy with what happened to my Varhulfs. No undead or vampire rules and they no longer cause terror!!! My favorite unit in the army just took a major hit. For what an initiative increase. So I strike at initiative 4 but no longer cause terror or am immune to psychology or am unbreakable, not to mention why would you take the vampire special rule and the undead special rule considering they are clearly both vampires and undead it states that in thier description. Why would they do this WHY!?!?!?
Wow...
Can you not at least wait for the freaking book before you proclaim the vargulf as crap?!
If you're going by the website updating for the units, have you ever thought that perhaps, just maybe they're not fully up to date yet?!
Vargulfs will still have all the basic Undead rules such as ItP, cause fear (who knows maybe still cause terror), unstable, etc... Besides, I seriously doubt that the vargulf will become worthless and it has been rumored already that he's still a vampire, we just don't know if he'll have the newest rules like 'the hunger' or such yet.
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Post by: JHall
BlackRaven1987!! wrote:ok seriously not happy with what happened to my Varhulfs. No undead or vampire rules and they no longer cause terror!!! My favorite unit in the army just took a major hit. For what an initiative increase. So I strike at initiative 4 but no longer cause terror or am immune to psychology or am unbreakable, not to mention why would you take the vampire special rule and the undead special rule considering they are clearly both vampires and undead it states that in thier description. Why would they do this WHY!?!?!?
You are basing your nerdrage on the brief write-up on the website without seeing the actual rulebook?? It has already been said that in the White Dwarf articles they confirm the Varghulf still is a Vampire and Undead, so why not wait until you see the actual book instead of getting all worked up from the website synopsis which is notoriously wrong in many instances?
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Post by: BlackRaven1987!!
Experiment 626 wrote:BlackRaven1987!! wrote:ok seriously not happy with what happened to my Varhulfs. No undead or vampire rules and they no longer cause terror!!! My favorite unit in the army just took a major hit. For what an initiative increase. So I strike at initiative 4 but no longer cause terror or am immune to psychology or am unbreakable, not to mention why would you take the vampire special rule and the undead special rule considering they are clearly both vampires and undead it states that in thier description. Why would they do this WHY!?!?!?
Wow...
Can you not at least wait for the freaking book before you proclaim the vargulf as crap?!
If you're going by the website updating for the units, have you ever thought that perhaps, just maybe they're not fully up to date yet?!
Vargulfs will still have all the basic Undead rules such as ItP, cause fear (who knows maybe still cause terror), unstable, etc... Besides, I seriously doubt that the vargulf will become worthless and it has been rumored already that he's still a vampire, we just don't know if he'll have the newest rules like 'the hunger' or such yet.
Maybe you are right and my anger is a bit premature I just really hope you are right, I would be highly upset if they lost all thier usefull rules, you have to admit that with what is on the website now they are not looking good.
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Post by: Red_Zeke
I can't believe they finecast the bat swarms. So bad. Like a lot of the new stuff, though, and I wouldn't get too bound up on the Varghulf rules as posted on the GW website blub. Plenty of room for error/chance to leave something off.
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Post by: 4oursword
Hmmm... I wonder if you could take Vargheists as Varghulfs...
That would save a ton of cash for Strigoi armies.
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Post by: Da Boss
The official picture of the black knights makes them look pretty sweet. But for £8 more I can get 10 mantic revenant knights which also look pretty sweet and fit in with my other mantic undead. A conundrum!
Aside from that, I'm definitely picking up the Wight King, as he is sweet, and might get Kremmler out of nostalgia (one of the first battle reports I ever read included Kremmler).
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Post by: kenshin620
My memory is a bit fuzzy on Kremmler but wow he looks pretty awesome for an old model
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Post by: Experiment 626
Hexwraiths have been 'confirmed' going by Warseer to be 1 attack per model. So now instead of being disturbingly OP, whineseer VC supporters have already writen the unit of as complete trash!
I'm definately going to try out a unit of 6 for starters deployed as a 3x2 block to save on deployment space, use a shorter vanguard move and then jet them off full speed turn 1! If it works out decently, I'll add a second unit 6 so I can have them plus some fell bats zipping about causing havoc among missile troops/war machine crews while inflicting some hurt to a couple units on the way. Sounds like fun to me! 
As for the Vargulf rules on the GW site, has no one else spotted the dead giveaway that he doesn't cause fear or terror yet is still easily a 'monster' unit type? Since when has ANY monster at any time in fantasy never caused terror?!!
I'm calling definate BS on the website's profile/rules post because they're quite obviously missing at least one thing here.
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Post by: Vampirate of Sartosa
-Loki- wrote:Personally, I'm trying very, very hard to not buy the old Lahmians because I really want them in finecast. I know when I do, the next month they'll get the finecast treatment which will make my conversion idea so much easier. But if I don't, they won't get done in finecast and I'll never buy them.
...And now they've been removed entirely.
Ouch.
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Post by: kenshin620
Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:-Loki- wrote:Personally, I'm trying very, very hard to not buy the old Lahmians because I really want them in finecast. I know when I do, the next month they'll get the finecast treatment which will make my conversion idea so much easier. But if I don't, they won't get done in finecast and I'll never buy them.
...And now they've been removed entirely.
Ouch.
To ebay?
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Post by: Phyrexia
Old models are the best anyways. See, doesn't Nagash look so much better in finecast?!
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Post by: ph34r
Da Boss wrote:The official picture of the black knights makes them look pretty sweet. But for £8 more I can get 10 mantic revenant knights which also look pretty sweet and fit in with my other mantic undead. A conundrum!
Aside from that, I'm definitely picking up the Wight King, as he is sweet, and might get Kremmler out of nostalgia (one of the first battle reports I ever read included Kremmler).
As an oft supporter of 3rd party alternatives to GW, and a VC player, I must say that honestly the mantic revenant cavalry look like absolute garbage. The designs are uninspired, the detail looks soft, and the undead horses themselves look super weird with some parts randomly made of bone and some of flesh.
I do however fully support their skeletons. Pretty decent stuff on that front and at a good price. But for a larger model, a more elite model, one that you are actually going to look at.... I would never use the mantic cavalry over the GW.
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Post by: Matt.Kingsley
they are actually cheaper thanI thought they would be (in $AU)
Coven throne = $96, I rhough it would AT LEAST cost as much as a land raider (roughly $110)
Wight King, only $22 (thought it would be $28)
Same with the Failcast Isabella, only $26 (I thought it would be at least $30)
Same with thae black knights/hexwraiths, only $50! (thought at least $58)
Of course, the Army book is way more than I thought, same with the varghiests/crypt horrors
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Post by: ceorron
Phyrexia wrote:Old models are the best anyways. See, doesn't Nagash look so much better in finecast?!
Yeah he certainly does, at least then he would if he was for sale as a new finecast model. Come on GW you could "resurrect" Nagash couldn't you? A new sculpt, some new powerful but non game breaking rules. Eh?
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Post by: -Loki-
Matt.Kingsley wrote:Wight King, only $22 (thought it would be $28)
Considering it's a single frame plastic, no one should have expect it to exceed $22au. All of the single frame plastics are the same price.
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Post by: DarkStarSabre
ph34r wrote:Da Boss wrote:The official picture of the black knights makes them look pretty sweet. But for £8 more I can get 10 mantic revenant knights which also look pretty sweet and fit in with my other mantic undead. A conundrum!
Aside from that, I'm definitely picking up the Wight King, as he is sweet, and might get Kremmler out of nostalgia (one of the first battle reports I ever read included Kremmler).
As an oft supporter of 3rd party alternatives to GW, and a VC player, I must say that honestly the mantic revenant cavalry look like absolute garbage. The designs are uninspired, the detail looks soft, and the undead horses themselves look super weird with some parts randomly made of bone and some of flesh.
I do however fully support their skeletons. Pretty decent stuff on that front and at a good price. But for a larger model, a more elite model, one that you are actually going to look at.... I would never use the mantic cavalry over the GW.
So, basically...
Go Mantic for the core (Zombies, Ghouls, Skeletons) and GW for everything else.
To be honest you'll save money that way. (20 skeletons for £13.99 or 10 for £15.50....hmmm....)
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Post by: Aerethan
I can't decide if I want to use the new Wight king or Krell as a converted BSB. I can't see much use for a non BSB Wight King, and special characters aren't usually useful or allowed.
It is a shame that GW pulled ALL of the old dual pack vampires as I was going to buy them so I had one of each option. Thank God for chaosorc having old stock.
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Post by: Matt.Kingsley
-Loki- wrote:Matt.Kingsley wrote:Wight King, only $22 (thought it would be $28)
Considering it's a single frame plastic, no one should have expect it to exceed $22au. All of the single frame plastics are the same price.
remember, we're talking about GW here, they'd up the prices to see if they would be able to squeeze more money out of us
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Post by: -Loki-
Matt.Kingsley wrote:-Loki- wrote:Matt.Kingsley wrote:Wight King, only $22 (thought it would be $28)
Considering it's a single frame plastic, no one should have expect it to exceed $22au. All of the single frame plastics are the same price.
remember, we're talking about GW here, they'd up the prices to see if they would be able to squeeze more money out of us
Except outside of price rise periods, they don't do that.
All previous plastic fantasy characters have been $22au. There was no reason at all to assume a higher price for the Wight King.
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Post by: Ehsteve
Aerethan wrote:I can't decide if I want to use the new Wight king or Krell as a converted BSB. I can't see much use for a non BSB Wight King, and special characters aren't usually useful or allowed.
It is a shame that GW pulled ALL of the old dual pack vampires as I was going to buy them so I had one of each option. Thank God for chaosorc having old stock.
They were quite a deal as well the old metal dual kits, just like the Bretonnian Damsel kit (we can probably kiss that goodbye unless it becomes a plastic).
It's disappointing they only have one mounted vampire now (discounting characters because this is an obvious ploy to sell more Mannfred). You'd have to get a Blood Knight now to represent a mounted vampire with lance (and they are still trying to hock the failcast version at a price which makes the models worth more than their weight in silver)
Black Knights are the only real redeemable feature of this release. I'd really like to get a Mortis Engine and convert it to a necromancer/vampire playing the organ (phantom of the opera style) however that is going to require some major conversion and I'd have to find some way to replace that god awful, too-busy ethereal steed/skeletal horde base.
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Post by: Nagashek
Anyone else noticed that you can get the old skeletons in plastic? 5 for $8.25. So you can get a batch of 20 for $33. That sounds reasonable by comparison.
But, since I'm the only person seemingly on the planet who likes the last skeletons, I'll buy a couple packs for DE conversions.
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Post by: Ogryn
Pretty nice models here. I think it gives the Counts a larger variety of models.
-Ogryn
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Post by: Griever
Fantastic model range, I may have to take the dip into fantasy. Damn it ><
Krell may be the best model of all time, ever. It's fantastic.
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Post by: Dysartes
Aerethan wrote:I can't see much use for a non BSB Wight King, and special characters aren't usually useful or allowed.
I've not picked up one of the new hardback army books recently, but I thought the "opponent's permission" restriction on special characters had been kicked to the kerb?
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Post by: Aerethan
Some tournaments and the like ban SC or at least certain ones.
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Post by: sonofruss
For friendly play SC are useable tournaments on the other hand can pick and choose what they want from a codex or army book.
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Post by: Minsc
Nagashek wrote:Anyone else noticed that you can get the old skeletons in plastic? 5 for $8.25. So you can get a batch of 20 for $33. That sounds reasonable by comparison.
But, since I'm the only person seemingly on the planet who likes the last skeletons, I'll buy a couple packs for DE conversions.
I like the old ones as well, and as you said they are cheaper. If I ever feel like starting a VC army, I'll probably get just enough of the new boxes for the mandatory command (assuming I don't have any left over banners to use already: I think I might have 1-3 old Skeleton command bits still from old Night Goblin and Night Runner boxes), then buy Skeleton five-boxes aplenty. Price of units is:
x2 30-Skeleton Units, Maelstrom: $129-$130 USD pre-taxes
x2 30-Skeleton Units, GW Big: $148.50 USD pre-taxes
x2 30-Skeleton Units, GW Small: $99 USD pre-taxes
The fiver boxes literally sell the Skeletons at 2/3 standard price. Unless you're in love with the newer models, or there's some sort of limit to buying the small boxes, just get the older skeletons. I'm pressed on money, so getting 90 Skeletons for the price of 60 is just common sense (Gives me enough to increase both units to 40-Skeleton, and STILL have 10 left over).
EDIT: Oh, yeah, and for fairness' sake:
x2 32-Skeleton Units, GW TKings: $140 USD pre-taxes
x2 32 Skeleton Units, Maelstrom TKings: $102.70 USD pre-taxes
So the Maelstrom TKing Skeletons are technically the cheapest source, but you might need to file a bit and go to work with the knife to use them as Vamp-Skeletons. Final order is: Maelstrom TKings > GW Old!Skeletons > Maelstrom Skeletons > GW TKings > GW New!Skeletons
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Post by: kenshin620
The 5 box though is snap fit, so you're guys might start looking the same though if you dont start chopping them up
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Post by: Sersi
Well, I love most of what I seen so far. Well except the the Hexwraiths...
Looking a the Unit info of Hexwraiths on the GW site; their background makes no sense.
Hexwraiths are born in the very depths of the Underworld, their only goal to hunt down those who have cheated death. They share many similarities with Cairn Wraiths, and their scythe-like weapons are just as deadly. Because of their incorporeal forms, a Hexwraiths can simply shimmer between worlds, their scythes re-materialising inside the bodies of their foes. Armour is no protection against these cackling Undead monstrosities - they will run down their victims swiftly and violently and claim their souls for the afterlife.
- They come from the Underworld.
- They claim souls for the afterlife.
- they hunt down those who have cheated death.
How are these guys even in a Vampire's army? There is not underworld in Warhammer, the spirit world is the mortal world. Unless this "underworld" is the Realm of Chaos, which would make them daemons. If they are truly agents of death then they should serve Morr. If they hunt those that have cheated death, should they not be hunting the Vampire and other undead?
They should have left the background like the 6th edition. We had mounted wraith back then. So a unit of mounted Wraiths; just as Black Knights are just mounted Wights. Done.
Also they should look like the new plastic Wraith not the abominations we got. :cries:
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Post by: Kanluwen
There is in fact an underworld. It's Morr's realm. Necromancers who he catches are "stuck" there.
It's best to think of them as revenants of some kind.
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Post by: -Loki-
It still begs the question that, if they hunt down those that have cheated death, why they would be working with vampires rather than hunting them.
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Post by: kenshin620
-Loki- wrote:It still begs the question that, if they hunt down those that have cheated death, why they would be working with vampires rather than hunting them.
I think "cheat" means they're still alive
Vampires are well....."dead" right? undead anyways (blah blah, vampire rules=/=undead rules)
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Post by: Rivet
kenshin620 wrote:-Loki- wrote:It still begs the question that, if they hunt down those that have cheated death, why they would be working with vampires rather than hunting them.
I think "cheat" means they're still alive
Vampires are well....."dead" right? undead anyways (blah blah, vampire rules=/=undead rules)
This is a really good answer. Also, you could look at it as they went hunting the Vampire who just happened to have so much control over the dead (as Vampire's do since it is the premise of our army...) that when the Hexwraiths came to "collect" the Vampire, they were bound to the Vampire's will, thus serving the Vampire.
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Post by: Sergeant Horse
I just assume that Hexwraiths hunt the souls of people who escaped death, and vampires don't have souls, VOILA!
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Post by: Norn King
Krell looks awesome.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Is it wrong that I want that t-shirt that Kelly was wearing?
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Post by: Tomb King
WOW! Graveguard are only WS3. Lame!
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Post by: Ozymandias
They've always been WS3.
That's why you have the Banner of the Barrows, +1 to hit.
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Post by: Sersi
Sergeant Horse wrote:I just assume that Hexwraiths hunt the souls of people who escaped death, and vampires don't have souls, VOILA!
No Vampires definitely have souls. What makes the immortal and impossible to permanently kill one is that there souls are completely fused with the molecules of their bodies. Even burning and scattering the ashes doesn't really kill them, it just makes it really...really hard to regenerate from.
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Post by: FabricatorGeneralMike
I think Krell and Isabella look fantastic, if not for finecast I would probley pick them up just to have. It's nice to see Kimmler get some love again, he has always been one of my favoret WHBF charactors, and model. 
Even the new big kit looks kinda neat just to paint up/convert and have in the display case...well if I had a Display case that is.
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Post by: ph34r
Ozymandias wrote:They've always been WS3.
That's why you have the Banner of the Barrows, +1 to hit.
Yeah, or the helm that shared your weapon skill with the unit. Though I suppose that might be getting the axe?
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Post by: DarkStarSabre
I should bloody well hope so.
Hordes of things hitting on 2+ with Killing Blow kind of took the mickey with things.
11
Post by: ph34r
DarkStarSabre wrote:I should bloody well hope so.
Hordes of things hitting on 2+ with Killing Blow kind of took the mickey with things.
Yeah, but it was HARD countered by Purple Sun/Pit of Shades.
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Post by: -Loki-
Except, if the guesstimates of Hellish Vigour are correct, it will give units the WS of the caster and rerolls to wound.
Couple that with Banner of the Barrows, and you've got great weapon Grave Guard hitting on 2's, and wounding most things on 2's with rerolls.
And if it is a bubble effect spell like some people are speculating, it can also hit a Corpse Cart, trigger Vigour Mortis, and give them ASF, letting them strike at I3.
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Post by: DarkStarSabre
-Loki- wrote:Except, if the guesstimates of Hellish Vigour are correct, it will give units the WS of the caster and rerolls to wound.
Couple that with Banner of the Barrows, and you've got great weapon Grave Guard hitting on 2's, and wounding most things on 2's with rerolls.
And if it is a bubble effect spell like some people are speculating, it can also hit a Corpse Cart, trigger Vigour Mortis, and give them ASF, letting them strike at I3.
If this is the case this is acceptable. Spells can be countered, magic phases can be buggered up properly. The old version was a magic item that was pretty much constant and downright silly.
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Post by: Earthbeard
FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:
I think Krell and Isabella look fantastic, if not for finecast I would probley pick them up just to have. It's nice to see Kimmler get some love again, he has always been one of my favoret WHBF charactors, and model.
Even the new big kit looks kinda neat just to paint up/convert and have in the display case...well if I had a Display case that is.
With you on this one....oh finecast why must you tease me so.
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Post by: Kirasu
Im surprised at how efficient the iron curtain of GW has worked for VC.. Almost no data outside of the white dwarf.
I can only assume there is a gulag some where in Britain where all the leakers are
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Post by: Rivet
Kirasu wrote:Im surprised at how efficient the iron curtain of GW has worked for VC.. Almost no data outside of the white dwarf.
I can only assume there is a gulag some where in Britain where all the leakers are
Nah, England bought Gitmo after Obama closed it. That is where all the leakers are.
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Post by: Vampirate of Sartosa
I couldn't concentrate on the video. Kelly's facial hair was hypnotising.
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Post by: Howard A Treesong
My god how broken is the point costing on Fantasy these days? Please excuse my surprise but I don't play the current game.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=19900006a
I looked at the pictures and thought, there's a reasonable amount of stuff for 2000 points.
Then the numbers sunk in. The hell?? In one picture for 2000 points you need a corpse cart and some large bat thing, a pair of fell bats (just as well given their new price) and then you need two boxes of bat swarms, three boxes of ogre things, three boxes of ghouls, three boxes of zombies and 2 boxes of the enormous thing in the middle.
There's another picture but it's two of these, three of those and four of that, and the characters and some massive stuff.
Jeezus. Have people really got tables big enough and pockets deep enough for Fantasy armies? Mostly nice figures but the game has changed a bit since I last played that's for sure.
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Post by: Kirasu
A valid point and a big reason why we can't get younger people to join WFB. Hard to justify 45$ for 10 elite troops when elite means they cost 12 points. In 40k you get 5 40mm models for 50$ which is a very high price (terminators) yet in fantasy you get usually 3 models
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Post by: Flashman
Play smaller games, that's my approach. All the big stuff is daft anyway.
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Post by: Tomb King
With the rumors of no ard boyz this year you wont see as many bigger armies.
33033
Post by: kenshin620
I'll echo the smaller games
With 8th edition point system, smaller battles arent all that bad since you can take lords n stuff. Makes the games a little tenser since every man counts
I wish Skirmish/Warbands would get updated
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Post by: Breotan
Howard A Treesong wrote:Then the numbers sunk in. The hell?? In one picture for 2000 points you need a corpse cart and some large bat thing, a pair of fell bats (just as well given their new price) and then you need two boxes of bat swarms, three boxes of ogre things, three boxes of ghouls, three boxes of zombies and 2 boxes of the enormous thing in the middle.
You should really look at my Skaven Army if you want to see lots and lots of models. I might, but pretty much doubt, be able to make 2400 points.
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Post by: Flashman
Breotan wrote:]You should really look at my Skaven Army if you want to see lots and lots of models. I might, but pretty much doubt, be able to make 2400 points.
Now that is a Skaven army. Crack on with the painting though, eh?
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Post by: Kirasu
I don't see how small games + lords = every man counts.. You mean every lord counts
After playing WFB for an extremely long time competitively and casually.. the inclusion of lords in small games makes the game by far less fun.
Just like super characters in 40k are very hard to counter in small games.. Level 4 casters in low point games just makes almost all your troops pointless
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Post by: Flashman
Kirasu wrote:I don't see how small games + lords = every man counts.. You mean every lord counts
After playing WFB for an extremely long time competitively and casually.. the inclusion of lords in small games makes the game by far less fun.
Just like super characters in 40k are very hard to counter in small games.. Level 4 casters in low point games just makes almost all your troops pointless
Well, yes I tend to steer clear of Lords for 1000pt games, but the point is, given that Fantasy 8th is exhibiting the most blatant scaling up of £££ per points since 40K 3rd Edition (when a Tactical Marine went from 30 points to 15 points), it makes sense to scale back the size of the games. As I said, you may have to leave out the ridiculous stuff, but whilst big arse spiders and the like are fun ideas, they don't really add much to the game IMHO.
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Post by: RossDas
I was looking at the painting tutorial for the coven throne/mortis engine, and the actual "throne" part looks really good on its own without the over-the-top excess of the spirit host; I look forward to seeing if any skilled conversion-artists will make a more modest version of it.
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Post by: kitch102
Feel sorry for anyone that wants blood knights
17002
Post by: RossDas
As much as I like the models I just wont pay that much out of principle, it's almost the same price as the IoB starter box.
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Post by: Xeriapt
Guess its a good thing I bought my Blood KNights a while back.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Putting it bluntly, I don't think I'll ever have a reason to actually field Blood Knights--and the cost is simply why.
They've always been priced dumb. They won't cease being priced dumb any time soon, most likely because they aren't selling well. It's a catch 22.
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Post by: JudgeShamgar
Howard A Treesong wrote:My god how broken is the point costing on Fantasy these days? Please excuse my surprise but I don't play the current game.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=19900006a
I looked at the pictures and thought, there's a reasonable amount of stuff for 2000 points.
Then the numbers sunk in. The hell?? In one picture for 2000 points you need a corpse cart and some large bat thing, a pair of fell bats (just as well given their new price) and then you need two boxes of bat swarms, three boxes of ogre things, three boxes of ghouls, three boxes of zombies and 2 boxes of the enormous thing in the middle.
There's another picture but it's two of these, three of those and four of that, and the characters and some massive stuff.
Jeezus. Have people really got tables big enough and pockets deep enough for Fantasy armies? Mostly nice figures but the game has changed a bit since I last played that's for sure.
I just did some quick clicking at the GW website and came up with these numbers:
To build the 1000 point army would cost 307$ US. Each model would cost approx. 3.75$
To build the first 2000 point army would cost 535$ US. Each model would cost approx. 4.90$
I can't fund that kind of army.....I might hit up my 10 year old for a loan.
I just looked at the Blood Knight price on GW US website and my jaw dropped! How could anyone pay 99$ for a five unit box? Now I need a loan from both my kids....
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Post by: Fenriswulf
Just do what I am doing. Mantic for the rank and file infantry, Gamezone miniatures for the Blood Knights (their mounted Vampires are awesome), Harpies as Vargheists and Corpse Cart, Lord of the Rings miniatures using army of the dead as spirit hosts, Morghul knights as Black Knights, Ringwraiths as Hexwraiths, and foot Ringwraiths as Cairn Wraith heroes. Masquerade miniatures supplies their awesome bats and fell bats, Reaper ghasts will fill in as Crypt Horrors, and I will most likely scratch build the Throne or Engine. Throw in some alternative manufacturers like Avatars of War and Enigma for heroes/lords and you're pretty much set.
The only thing from GW I will be using is the book, spell cards, the Terrorgheist and the Wight King. Everything else is easier to source and looks so much better from a lot of the other sources as well. If you don't have to buy GW (because that's the only place you can play etc), then don't do it. Undead isn't an uncommon line, plenty of other suppliers out there.
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Post by: Flashman
For UK based Dakkanauts absolutely determined to own Blood Knights, I think Dark Sphere offer the best price (£46.00 excl. shipping).
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Post by: Krellnus
Should probably note that the bloodline vampire models have been taken off the website (checked US and UK too) and according to the OZ warehouse are unavailable for order at all.
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Post by: DarkStarSabre
Flashman wrote:For UK based Dakkanauts absolutely determined to own Blood Knights, I think Dark Sphere offer the best price (£46.00 excl. shipping).
Or failing that...
Buy 2 boxes of Chaos Knights, bits order from the web some DE heads, file and fill Chaos iconography and clip off excessive horns.
You now have 16 Blood Knights.
For easily £10-£15 less than the cost of GW's 5.
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Post by: -Loki-
Why are people still getting upset over Blood Knight prices? They've been that expensive since they released. Sure, finecast made them a few dollars more expensive, but they've been in the ludicrous price band for years.
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Post by: Tomb King
DarkStarSabre wrote:Flashman wrote:For UK based Dakkanauts absolutely determined to own Blood Knights, I think Dark Sphere offer the best price (£46.00 excl. shipping).
Or failing that...
Buy 2 boxes of Chaos Knights, bits order from the web some DE heads, file and fill Chaos iconography and clip off excessive horns.
You now have 16 Blood Knights.
For easily £10-£15 less than the cost of GW's 5.
Dont Chaos knights come in boxs of 5?
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Post by: spyguyyoda
Tomb King wrote:DarkStarSabre wrote:Flashman wrote:For UK based Dakkanauts absolutely determined to own Blood Knights, I think Dark Sphere offer the best price (£46.00 excl. shipping).
Or failing that...
Buy 2 boxes of Chaos Knights, bits order from the web some DE heads, file and fill Chaos iconography and clip off excessive horns.
You now have 16 Blood Knights.
For easily £10-£15 less than the cost of GW's 5.
Dont Chaos knights come in boxs of 5?
Yes. But you can still buy three boxes of them with $10 to spend on bits and enough left over for coffee.
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Post by: kitch102
Just so were all clear, the pic I posted from white dwarf will have been a mis print, the blood knight / hex wraith kit is £18.50 on the UK site which I reckons pretty damn good tbh
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Post by: Anung Un Rama
Are those huge plastic Ghouls the Flesh Golem unit we heard rumors about or is there another unit in the book which they don't have models for yet?
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Post by: kitch102
The big ghouls are varghulfs, ghouls that have fed on rank stuff for so many years that they've just grown beyond compare to their smaller 'brethren'.
No idea about the flesh golems, I havent seen the army book, but that's what I can tell you about them
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Post by: Fenriswulf
Anung Un Rama wrote:Are those huge plastic Ghouls the Flesh Golem unit we heard rumors about or is there another unit in the book which they don't have models for yet?
The big ghoul looking guys are Crypt Horrors. The big ones with wings are vargheists, smaller brothers to the larger Varghulfs. I too wanted flesh golems, but honestly that doesn't stick with the fluff about Vampires. It's more Thaumaturgy than Necromancy. Unfortunately, not a fan of either sculpt so I will be passing on those miniatures.
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Post by: MakeH
When talking about the price of warhammer going up, one should consider this; if a player wants, he can comfortably summon over 60 new zombies per turn. I mean if that is hes goal, he can do it easy, thats just 3 passed invocations from lvl1 guys reaching 3 units. Zombies, old models, cost 30€ for 20...
That made me break a cold sweat.
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Post by: Ozymandias
Or buy the Manticore zombies which look better and are 30 for $30.
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Post by: The CF
Ozymandias wrote:Or buy the Manticore zombies which look better and are 30 for $30.
Could you link to that company? Some swift googling yielded nothing, and I'm quite curious to this.
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Post by: Fenriswulf
www.manticgames.com
Really really cheap undead at a good price, and most of it looks tons better than GW. Added bonus, it's to scale too.
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Post by: The CF
Fenriswulf wrote:www.manticgames.com
Really really cheap undead at a good price, and most of it looks tons better than GW. Added bonus, it's to scale too.
Ahhh, Mantic Games!
Here I thought it was some minor, unheard of company called Manticore Miniatures
But yep, Mantic games is truly sweet. I'm gonna get all my Skellies and Zombies from Mantic.
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Post by: Death By Monkeys
Ozymandias wrote:Or buy the Manticore zombies which look better and are 30 for $30.
Ozymandias has smartphone fail.
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Post by: Kirasu
Yeah I cant fathom why gw didn't redo their skeletons and zombies models.. I can only assume they want to lose sales to Mantic which are much cheaper and personally I think they look better
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Post by: Fenriswulf
Money. So much cheaper to keep pumping out the same stuff, getting the most use of the design they spent a fair chunk of cash to get made, than re-do them. If they're still selling, it's still worth keeping it as it is.
However, people will get bored or tired of the old look, and as soon as there is a decent competitor, will grab those.
Plus, there is no other way I could have got my miniatures for about $0.54AUD each from GW here in Australia. Impossible.
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Post by: Howard A Treesong
I quite like the GW skellies, I prefer them without much clothings. Their ghouls I really don't care for though.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Howard A Treesong wrote:I quite like the GW skellies, I prefer them without much clothings. Their ghouls I really don't care for though.
Quite right.
The Skeletons are just fine, in my opinion. There's a good mix of armored and unarmored for them.
The Ghouls though, yeah they're not the greatest. Not bad--but a tad busy.
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Post by: The CF
Well, I can't say I dislike them - I actually like the GW sculpts. The Mantic ones are.. different, as in equally good, but in another way.
The tiebreaker is really the price.
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Post by: -Loki-
Kirasu wrote:Yeah I cant fathom why gw didn't redo their skeletons and zombies models.. I can only assume they want to lose sales to Mantic which are much cheaper and personally I think they look better
They probably didn't redo the skeletons because the current box was done for last edition, and is actually one of their better fantasy kits? I mean, it can be a pain building them, since they're very multipart models, but they're really well detailed, there's a good mix of clothed, naked and armoured bdoies that mix and match perfectly, and they're exceedingly well proportioned for GW models.
Zombies, I agree with. But the skeletons? Mantics skeletons don't even come close to looking as good as the VC skeletons.
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Post by: Flashman
Yes, GW VC skeletons are really nice models. What bemused me is that they didn't give TK the same treatment (i.e. scaled down skeletons) and then released Tomb Guard at the larger scale, so they can't do smaller ones at all for the forseeable future. Small aesthetical decisions like that make all the difference to me.
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Post by: The CF
-Loki- wrote:Kirasu wrote:Yeah I cant fathom why gw didn't redo their skeletons and zombies models.. I can only assume they want to lose sales to Mantic which are much cheaper and personally I think they look better
They probably didn't redo the skeletons because the current box was done for last edition, and is actually one of their better fantasy kits? I mean, it can be a pain building them, since they're very multipart models, but they're really well detailed, there's a good mix of clothed, naked and armoured bdoies that mix and match perfectly, and they're exceedingly well proportioned for GW models.
Zombies, I agree with. But the skeletons? Mantics skeletons don't even come close to looking as good as the VC skeletons.
As good-looking and all that the VC skeletons are, I just can't see myself buying ~100 of them. The price is just... So GW.
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Post by: spyguyyoda
The issue for me (if I give in and play VC) is that I don't have any good places to play besides my local GW. So...it's either buy their stuff or get out...
Which is a shame, because it probably means I won't buy any VC stuff, because I won't be able to afford to start the army in the first place.
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Post by: -Loki-
The Cornerfag~ wrote:-Loki- wrote:Kirasu wrote:Yeah I cant fathom why gw didn't redo their skeletons and zombies models.. I can only assume they want to lose sales to Mantic which are much cheaper and personally I think they look better
They probably didn't redo the skeletons because the current box was done for last edition, and is actually one of their better fantasy kits? I mean, it can be a pain building them, since they're very multipart models, but they're really well detailed, there's a good mix of clothed, naked and armoured bdoies that mix and match perfectly, and they're exceedingly well proportioned for GW models.
Zombies, I agree with. But the skeletons? Mantics skeletons don't even come close to looking as good as the VC skeletons.
As good-looking and all that the VC skeletons are, I just can't see myself buying ~100 of them. The price is just... So GW.
I wasn't commenting on the price (which agree with, they should be in boxes of 20 for that price like the zombies), just the comment that mantics skeletons look better which, I can only assume, comes from not seeing both kits in person.
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Post by: Experiment 626
At least Dakka's rumor thread hasn't gone the way of whineseer and degenerated into needless cries of "OMG! VC = the new cheese!11!!!1!"
Things I'm most excited for;
- General's death = 'game over' fixed. TK's at least have a seperate general who gives his inspiring presence to the core of their army, on top of much higher Ld across the board. We get the epic shaft if we even attempt to entertain the idea of a fighty lord!
This new rule is really going to open up new avenues of tactics & playstyles and it's long overdue!
- Skittles viable. Pts drop is good, likely potential for 'free' spears is even better! Add a good magic banner, the right combo of powers and an ethereal hero to the front rank and we've got ourselves an undead anvil folks!
- Zombies usable. My biggest peeve with Gav Thorpe's gak'ed-up excuse of a VC armybook was the moronic idea to think that T2 crumbling troops were ever viable.
- Necromancer armies are back!!! I know how I would feel if all of a sudden a new book didn't allow for my theme. Best decision by far with our 8th ed book is to give the nceromancer fans their army back as a playable option.
- Every magic item is usefull! And we keep our seperate allowance for powers too!
Add to this the much needed improvment to the vampire profiles and our characters are finally fearsome again.
- No obvious 'insta-win' buttons or 'auto-spams' that we can see at this point. Every unit overall looks decent and still retains at least a small drawback which mean we should be in for a decently balanced book!
Sure it won't ever be perfect, but overall, it looks like the internal balance issues have really been taken care of, while not giving us a lop-sided external balance.
- New toys look oh so tasty!
Overall I'm one happy Lahmian player and I can't wait to sink my teeth into this new book come Sat night!
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Post by: Ozymandias
The Cornerfag~ wrote:Ozymandias wrote:Or buy the Manticore zombies which look better and are 30 for $30.
Could you link to that company? Some swift googling yielded nothing, and I'm quite curious to this.
Yeah, I meant Mantic, stupid auto-correct! Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, Mantic (see now my tablet knows its place!) skeletons with GW heads and weapons look pretty darn good. I did a comparison a while back, check out the threads started by me if you are interested.
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Post by: RossDas
I quite like the GW skellies, it's the direwolves (massive heads) and zombies that I'd like to see tackled next.
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Post by: str00dles1
Someone posted eariler that you might be able to find the old skellies for cheap. 35 for 20 still isnt bad. I actually like them more then the new ones. I was gonna do mantic myself but I found 84 old style for cheap.
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Post by: RossDas
str00dles1 wrote:Someone posted eariler that you might be able to find the old skellies for cheap. 35 for 20 still isnt bad. I actually like them more then the new ones. I was gonna do mantic myself but I found 84 old style for cheap.
Is that the box of 20 with the spears? I saw the box of five simple snap-fit ones on sale last year for about £5-£6. They're not bad in spite of the shield's positions looking a bit odd, nothing too hard to fix though!
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Post by: Minsc
str00dles1 wrote:Someone posted eariler that you might be able to find the old skellies for cheap.
The post. Your best bet for cheap skeletons is either going with the five-Skeleton boxes, or buying Tomb King Skeletons from some place like Maelstrom (something cheaper than from GW directly). Either of those two options lets you buy roughly three skeletons per GW price of two. In return, you're either looking at the "simple & old" style Skeletons of the five-box, or going to need to go through some of your bitz to keep large regiments from looking TKish.
str00dles1 wrote:35 for 20 still isnt bad.
It's about on par with the original box after the price rise to $35 for boxed regiments (some time after '04). And yeah, 20 for $35 is much better than 20 for $50.
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Post by: Tomb King
I play both tomb kings and vampire counts and I have a lot of oop skeletons that have no favor to either side that I use for both armies
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Post by: OneandOnly
Quick question. How many Hexwraiths are allowed in my 2000-3000 point VC army?
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Post by: spyguyyoda
OneandOnly wrote:Quick question. How many Hexwraiths are allowed in my 2000-3000 point VC army?
They are specials, so you can have up to 50% of your army be Hexwraiths if you want.
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Post by: Vampirate of Sartosa
Thoughts on the new book:
* Ghoul Kings as a separate unit? Not sure if want.
* Corpse Carts now Chariots? Not sure if want.
* Only one magic weapon/armour? DO NOT WANT.
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Post by: Fenriswulf
I hope they errata the corpse carts movement. Move 4 is not enough to keep pace with the army, especially since chariots can't march.
Unless they only want us to be moving 4" per turn.
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Post by: Howard A Treesong
So is Nagash not back then?
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Post by: -Loki-
Fenriswulf wrote:I hope they errata the corpse carts movement. Move 4 is not enough to keep pace with the army, especially since chariots can't march.
Unless they only want us to be moving 4" per turn.
Since you can only march within 12" of the general now, most of the army will be moving the same speed as the Corpse Cart anyway until they get close enough to charge.
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Post by: Sergeant Horse
Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:Thoughts on the new book:
* Ghoul Kings as a separate unit? Not sure if want.
* Corpse Carts now Chariots? Not sure if want.
* Only one magic weapon/armour? DO NOT WANT.
Ghoul King with Sword of Bloodshed & Red Fury, 8 attacks, rerolls to hit, every wound gets another attack, he can wrack up 16 if it goes well. I do want.
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Post by: parcival42
I got to glance at the book today and I saw something that caused concern. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the side bar on rezzing units said something about characters and their mounts not being able to get wounds back. If that's true, well, it may be balanced, but it kinda sucks - no wounds back to the coven throne, vamp on terrorgeist, etc.
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Post by: Sergeant Horse
no, vamps, ethereals and large targets can only ever get 1 wound per successful casting, so they can heal themselves, bu tits tougher, and anyway, if you succesfully cast a spell, then any model within 12 inches can heal a wound, so each casting on a Vamp Lord of Nehek, can actually heal 2 if you wish, one fo rthe spell, and one for casting it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Its like UBER Lord of Life.
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Post by: Ehsteve
Looking over the book, it is fantastic. You get all the options to create multiple builds all of which can be competitive.
The awesome thing is zombies, the +1S, +1T boost as well as the points drop turned them into a staple for any army. They can also be raised above their starting number. Run 200 zombies in any army build and in a 2500pts game that's not even 1/4 of your points
4 units of 50 run 10 deep or 10 wide will simply outlast the enemy, supported by corpse carts they become awesome.
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Post by: Sergeant Horse
that's the awesome thing, they made every unti good, Bat Swarms can make you ASL for gods sake!!
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Post by: Matt.Kingsley
Got the last deck of Magic Cards at my local GW store!
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Post by: gilljoy
How are mantic zombies scale wise compared to other GW minis?
I may get them for use in my games since I think the current GW ones look horrible
33033
Post by: kenshin620
gilljoy wrote:How are mantic zombies scale wise compared to other GW minis?
I may get them for use in my games since I think the current GW ones look horrible
Bit more truescaled i think
But it doesnt look too bad I think in comparison
A mixed regiment of Mantic Ghouls and Zombies with GW Zombies
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Post by: Experiment 626
Sergeant Horse wrote:no, vamps, ethereals and large targets can only ever get 1 wound per successful casting, so they can heal themselves, bu tits tougher, and anyway, if you succesfully cast a spell, then any model within 12 inches can heal a wound, so each casting on a Vamp Lord of Nehek, can actually heal 2 if you wish, one fo rthe spell, and one for casting it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Its like UBER Lord of Life.
That's not quite how it works I'm afraid.
Invocation CANNOT heal characters as it only specifies undead units as the targets. (and the rules under the 'resurrecting fallen warriors' box makes clear mention that spells can only heal characters where it specifically says so!)
BUT
The Lore Attribute specifically states that the caster or another friendly model within X" gains back a lost wound.
That's how we heal our characters & mounts - through the VC lore attribute. I know alot of VC players might complain that's silly and insanely underpowered, but please, consider how easy our lore is to cast, the attribute kicks in every time we cast any VC lore spell AND the range has a huge bubble it can effect!
So while we might not be able to fully heal say a dragon or 'ghiest that's down to its last wound within 1 turn like we could before, we should still with carefull deployment of our characters be able to heal at least 2-3 wounds per turn to spread about. Get a good phase with max dice and Mortis Engines going and well, VC characters that aren't outright killed are going to be very annoying to deal with!
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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
Can they still spam the same spell like before? I noticed master of the black arts was different.
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Post by: Sergeant Horse
Experiment 626 wrote:Sergeant Horse wrote:no, vamps, ethereals and large targets can only ever get 1 wound per successful casting, so they can heal themselves, bu tits tougher, and anyway, if you succesfully cast a spell, then any model within 12 inches can heal a wound, so each casting on a Vamp Lord of Nehek, can actually heal 2 if you wish, one fo rthe spell, and one for casting it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Its like UBER Lord of Life.
That's not quite how it works I'm afraid.
Invocation CANNOT heal characters as it only specifies undead units as the targets. (and the rules under the 'resurrecting fallen warriors' box makes clear mention that spells can only heal characters where it specifically says so!)
BUT
The Lore Attribute specifically states that the caster or another friendly model within X" gains back a lost wound.
That's how we heal our characters & mounts - through the VC lore attribute. I know alot of VC players might complain that's silly and insanely underpowered, but please, consider how easy our lore is to cast, the attribute kicks in every time we cast any VC lore spell AND the range has a huge bubble it can effect!
So while we might not be able to fully heal say a dragon or 'ghiest that's down to its last wound within 1 turn like we could before, we should still with carefull deployment of our characters be able to heal at least 2-3 wounds per turn to spread about. Get a good phase with max dice and Mortis Engines going and well, VC characters that aren't outright killed are going to be very annoying to deal with!
REad page 5 of your rulebook, first paragraph, a unit may consist of a single large monster or powerful, lone character Automatically Appended Next Post: Now it is true, that if your vampire is IN a unit, he won't be affected by Nehek, he would have to leave the unit, and be a separate unit of a single lone character to be healed by nehek. Automatically Appended Next Post: CthuluIsSpy wrote:Can they still spam the same spell like before? I noticed master of the black arts was different.
Nehek is there signature that they can all take, nothing else can be spammed, but the spells are all way more buff than before
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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
Sergeant Horse wrote:Experiment 626 wrote:Sergeant Horse wrote:no, vamps, ethereals and large targets can only ever get 1 wound per successful casting, so they can heal themselves, bu tits tougher, and anyway, if you succesfully cast a spell, then any model within 12 inches can heal a wound, so each casting on a Vamp Lord of Nehek, can actually heal 2 if you wish, one fo rthe spell, and one for casting it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Its like UBER Lord of Life.
That's not quite how it works I'm afraid.
Invocation CANNOT heal characters as it only specifies undead units as the targets. (and the rules under the 'resurrecting fallen warriors' box makes clear mention that spells can only heal characters where it specifically says so!)
BUT
The Lore Attribute specifically states that the caster or another friendly model within X" gains back a lost wound.
That's how we heal our characters & mounts - through the VC lore attribute. I know alot of VC players might complain that's silly and insanely underpowered, but please, consider how easy our lore is to cast, the attribute kicks in every time we cast any VC lore spell AND the range has a huge bubble it can effect!
So while we might not be able to fully heal say a dragon or 'ghiest that's down to its last wound within 1 turn like we could before, we should still with carefull deployment of our characters be able to heal at least 2-3 wounds per turn to spread about. Get a good phase with max dice and Mortis Engines going and well, VC characters that aren't outright killed are going to be very annoying to deal with!
REad page 5 of your rulebook, first paragraph, a unit may consist of a single large monster or powerful, lone character
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Now it is true, that if your vampire is IN a unit, he won't be affected by Nehek, he would have to leave the unit, and be a separate unit of a single lone character to be healed by nehek.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:Can they still spam the same spell like before? I noticed master of the black arts was different.
Nehek is there signature that they can all take, nothing else can be spammed, but the spells are all way more buff than before
Well, as long as VC players stop doing that thing where they cast that age curse with one guy, drain all my dispel dice with it, and do it AGAIN with another guy, I'm happy.
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Post by: Matt.Kingsley
I'd watch out for Gaze of Nagash then Curse of Years...
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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
Matt.Kingsley wrote:I'd watch out for Gaze of Nagash then Curse of Years...
What's gaze of nagash?
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Post by: Matt.Kingsley
a strength 4 magic missile that causes 2d6 hits, and can be casted with curse of years (if not using the boosted version..... and you get lucky (or unlucky) with the strength of the winds of magic....)
and since you don't know what spells the opponent will cast in what order, if you dispel it, he'll use curse of years, in not, it could go either way...
and it has excellent range...
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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
Matt.Kingsley wrote:a strength 4 magic missile that causes 2d6 hits, and can be casted with curse of years (if not using the boosted version..... and you get lucky (or unlucky) with the strength of the winds of magic....)
and since you don't know what spells the opponent will cast in what order, if you dispel it, he'll use curse of years, in not, it could go either way...
and it has excellent range...
Only a magic missle? Ok np.
I run saurus anyway xD.
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Post by: Matt.Kingsley
oh.
even then, I'd watch out for 1 spell, wind of death
a vortex spell.
base, to tell the truth, isn't that good (str 3, small round template) but boosted gives you the large template and str 4
also, every unit under gets D6 hits.
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Post by: Tomb King
Do they still raise spirit host for the number of casualties taken? I loved that spell.
BTW: Mantic may be cheaper but they are harder to rank and file those zombies.
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Post by: -Loki-
Matt.Kingsley wrote:oh.
even then, I'd watch out for 1 spell, wind of death
a vortex spell.
base, to tell the truth, isn't that good (str 3, small round template) but boosted gives you the large template and str 4
also, every unit under gets D6 hits.
I'ts D6 hits per rank isn't it? It makes schoolbuses 10 deep pretty vulnerable to it.
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Post by: Matt.Kingsley
yeah it is per rank
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Post by: nosferatu1001
D6 per rank for any unit hit by the vortex. S3 no armour saves or S4 no armour saves - either way it is golden. Struglging with 5 x 10 skaven slave units and killing them quickly enough? This will do the trick
I'm liking that the ghoul king is separate - means you can get a more unique character, rather than trying to shoe horn in a load of changes. And you still get to take your vampire powers with him.
Overall - LIKE. Lots. Direwolves function as you would expect them to - S4 on the charge - and can use your core now. YOu can have a real hunting party feel, with core of direwolves and then black nights and blood knights
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Post by: Krellnus
Any news on the second wave at all?
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Post by: Matt.Kingsley
nosferatu1001 wrote:D6 per rank for any unit hit by the vortex. S3 no armour saves or S4 no armour saves - either way it is golden. Struglging with 5 x 10 skaven slave units and killing them quickly enough? This will do the trick
I'm liking that the ghoul king is separate - means you can get a more unique character, rather than trying to shoe horn in a load of changes. And you still get to take your vampire powers with him.
Overall - LIKE. Lots. Direwolves function as you would expect them to - S4 on the charge - and can use your core now. YOu can have a real hunting party feel, with core of direwolves and then black nights and blood knights
your really making me fell like doing this instead of the army I planned...
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Post by: Zid
Wow; those models are absolutally awesome!
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Post by: -Loki-
Krellnus wrote:Any news on the second wave at all?
I doubt they'll be getting one. They specifically Finecasted the old Fellbats, Bat swarms and Spirit Hosts for this. The only not-plastic, not-Finecast model left is the Black Coach, and that'll likely be a random splash release in a few months. Outside of all that, there's what, a couple of characters to do? They can do them as random splash releases as well. The likelyhood of a second wave is slim to nil.
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Post by: Sasori
Krellnus wrote:Any news on the second wave at all?
What's missing from the Model line? Looks like it's almost complete to me.
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Post by: Matt.Kingsley
-Loki- wrote:Krellnus wrote:Any news on the second wave at all?
I doubt they'll be getting one. They specifically Finecasted the old Fellbats, Bat swarms and Spirit Hosts for this. The only not-plastic, not-Finecast model left is the Black Coach, and that'll likely be a random splash release in a few months. Outside of all that, there's what, a couple of characters to do? They can do them as random splash releases as well. The likelyhood of a second wave is slim to nil.
The Black Coach is Finecast....
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat720006a&prodId=prod1460026a
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Post by: -Loki-
I could have sworn when I checked like 5 minutes ago it didn't have the finecast tag. Guess my work browser had the old image cached.
Well, that means there's basically nothing in the range waiting for a release, except a finecast version of the foot Mannfred.
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Post by: Matt.Kingsley
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Post by: Ehsteve
Sasori wrote:Krellnus wrote:Any news on the second wave at all?
What's missing from the Model line? Looks like it's almost complete to me.
Where's the Winged Hellsteed? Where's the generic mounted Vampire/Vampire Lord?
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Post by: Matt.Kingsley
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat720003a&prodId=prod1460022a for the generic mounted vamp
or you can convert Mannfred
but hellsteed, good point
ok so 1 model, but
i wouldn't call that a second wave... I'd just call that a small extra/oversight
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Post by: Tomb King
A lot of the fluff stayed the same and there are minimal changes to most units in here and they just added a few. Overall disappointed that I had to pay 42 dollars for a codex update instead of a new codex. I liked the old vampire magic way better. It was more fluffy with what we were about.
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Post by: buckero0
Was Ogre Kingdoms any better? We got ONE more useful unit and a firebelly and other than that, a slight update in point costs for everything else. There's 3 pages I have out of the new OK book that I use to play, everything else is wasted ( i got the magic cards, so i don't even need the magic page and there's only 1 magic item worth taking). 3 pages for $42.
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Post by: blue loki
Sergeant Horse wrote:[
REad page 5 of your rulebook, first paragraph, a unit may consist of a single large monster or powerful, lone character
While this is true, everyone should fully and carefully reread the resurrecting warriors (or whatever its called) callout in the VC book (the page that Invocation references back to). The last section specifically states characters and their mounts cannot be healed unless the rule specifically states otherwise. Invocation does not specifically state otherwise, so it never heals them.
The lore attribute and The Hunger are the only ways to heal characters now.
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Post by: Matt.Kingsley
^
This, unfortunately 
which is annoying because a necromancer on a corpse cart that casts IoN does not activate vigor mortis
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Post by: blue loki
Matt.Kingsley wrote:^
This, unfortunately
which is annoying because a necromancer on a corpse cart that casts IoN does not activate vigor mortis
It should. the spell targets all undead within the area. The spell's ability to do anything to the model should be irrelevant. All it need do is be successfully cast.
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Post by: Tomb King
blue loki wrote:Sergeant Horse wrote:[
REad page 5 of your rulebook, first paragraph, a unit may consist of a single large monster or powerful, lone character
While this is true, everyone should fully and carefully reread the resurrecting warriors (or whatever its called) callout in the VC book (the page that Invocation references back to). The last section specifically states characters and their mounts cannot be healed unless the rule specifically states otherwise. Invocation does not specifically state otherwise, so it never heals them.
The lore attribute and The Hunger are the only ways to heal characters now.
So it is like the tomb kings just better then the tomb kings. Always going for the one  arent they.
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Post by: buckero0
blue loki wrote:Sergeant Horse wrote:
The lore attribute and The Hunger are the only ways to heal characters now.
is this not good enough? The book is fairly powerful as it is. Banner of the Barrows is still ridiculously good, Vamp attributes are good, ghouls are good, zombies are good, even skellies could take on a lot of things.
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Post by: Kroothawk
Had a look at the new WD. The new Batallion contains:
- 20 Skeleton Warriors
- 20 Crypt Ghouls
- 10 Dire Wolves
- 1 Corpse Cart
Price 90€. Release date 18th Febriary.
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Post by: Dysartes
How does that compare to the old one, Kroot?
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Post by: Kanluwen
The old one was a Corpse Cart, 20 Skeleton Warriors, 10 Crypt Ghouls, and 20 Zombies.
You gain 10 more Ghouls and 10 Dire Wolves at the cost of 20 Zombies.
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Post by: blue loki
Possible indication new Zombies are on the way?
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Post by: Matt.Kingsley
maybe.
thank god it's still 20 skeles, I thought they'd make it 10
EDIT: the battalion also seems king of cheap... in GW terms (at least, when properly converted to AU)
Still, I'm guessing they'll boost the price to squeeze more money out of people like me....
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