I'm not crazy though. That rumour has Etheral's unlocking FW as troops, and Shapers doing the same for Kroot, (I guess you have to take an HQ anyway, but still) It seems crazy the Tau wouldn't have troops. Unless its just they get a boost if they have the HQ selection for the natural troop choices, and the Other ones move from Elite or wherever and become troops.

Maybe its a 6th ed thing, and all will be revealed.

Being forced to take Ethereals to be able to take Fire Warriors is just plain stupid. There's not even any real "fluff" reason for it.

If anything, it should be you have to take Fire Warriors to take Ethereals since Ethereals are forced to accompany Fire Warrior forces to "focus the Greater Good" or some such nonsense.

Uhhh.... Ubersuit? I hope that's not what its actuall name will be!

Remulus wrote: Uhhh.... Ubersuit? I hope that's not what its actuall name will be!

sounds as likely as the rumoured "necromancer" that the necrons where supposedly getting

Sasori wrote:

The Tau codex belongs to Cruddace, lets get that fact straight. That is all I am going to say on that issue

I Shall weep for all Tau players. Past, present and Future.

After the failure that was Codex: Tyranids, yeah, I'm more than a little terrified now. And "Must take an ethereal to use fire warriors" sounds like a bs, arbitrary restriction to me, so there may very well be truth in it...

You know, Mat Ward needs no real explanation, but at least you could be reasonably confident that your army would have decent rules in the end. Phil Kelly is sometimes hit or miss. Cruddace, though...they seriously could have picked anyone else and I think I'd have been a lot happier.

Considering this Tau rumor thread actually succeeded in reviving my interest in Tau partially, I'd hate for it to be all for nothing. Hopefully GW doesn't drop the ball here, because they're already on thin ice and Tau could make or break it for me.

I can see a special character that unlocks suits as troops and I'm with those that say that the ethereal will probably unlock BS4 firewarriors as troops or something.

tarnish wrote:

Remulus wrote: Uhhh.... Ubersuit? I hope that's not what its actuall name will be!

sounds as likely as the rumoured "necromancer" that the necrons where supposedly getting

You could say that the Stalker is what the Necromancer was rumoured to be, based on the rules that it was supposed to have.

Anyway that's a little OT <.< lol

Well that was a big lump of rumers. I can't see why a codex would have NO troops stock. It's way more likely that the HQ give specific bonus's to 'their" troops. The big suit being HS, not a surprise really. Its not likey ou can make big suits in such large numbers so they would be restricted to being HS. You could have a really cheesey battle with 3 Dreadknights vs 3 Ubersuits

actually if you want to get real fluffy, tau have no troops and no heavy support they just have elite and fast attack.

I cant really see any of the troops being "fast attack" or "Elites".

Fire warriors in elite, kroot fast attack. Easy. Point is tau don't hold ground and they don't do stationary combat. Hell even their main battle tank is really classified as a gunship.

Ok, I admit defeat.

Bylak wrote:

tarnish wrote:

Remulus wrote: Uhhh.... Ubersuit? I hope that's not what its actuall name will be!

sounds as likely as the rumoured "necromancer" that the necrons where supposedly getting

You could say that the Stalker is what the Necromancer was rumoured to be, based on the rules that it was supposed to have.

Anyway that's a little OT <.< lol

not arguing the function, but the name

These Morphic weapons on suit seem to be a farily solid rumor. But if they give us morphic weapons they would have to take away the MT. It would just be OP at that point.
I dont like the morphic weapon concept.

There was a clarification on the warseer compiled news summary that the "morphic" part of the weapon refered to different ammunitions

Deathrains running alternating ammo could get pretty scary pretty quick. All that range, and all that utility. I'd be happy.

Really now? That's sounds safer than obliterator weapons.
Mind linking to the page?

any news on MP I always thought they were really under powered for what they were.

Mal the Wolf wrote:These Morphic weapons on suit seem to be a farily solid rumor. But if they give us morphic weapons they would have to take away the MT. It would just be OP at that point.
I dont like the morphic weapon concept.

I don't know about that. The "Morphic Weapons" on suits sounds familiar...

Like XV-9 "Hazard" Suit familiar.

agnosto wrote:I can see a special character that unlocks suits as troops.

Farsight perhaps.

TBD wrote:

agnosto wrote:I can see a special character that unlocks suits as troops.

Farsight perhaps.

Why Farsight?

Might as well just have it be the same as bike-mounted Marine characters. If the HQ is in a suit, suits can be taken as Troops.

Kanluwen wrote:

TBD wrote:

agnosto wrote:I can see a special character that unlocks suits as troops.

Farsight perhaps.

Why Farsight?

Might as well just have it be the same as bike-mounted Marine characters. If the HQ is in a suit, suits can be taken as Troops.

Yes, might as well be a flying alien clown in a Santa suit that unlocks them, but he said special character, so why not Farsight, who knows?

Obviously none of us, hence perhaps

I don't believe the rumors. Jared offers us no really new information, just a rehashing of what weve already heard but phrased differently/more eloquently so as to make it seem more detailed and thus more believable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don't believe the rumors. Jared offers us no really new information, just a rehashing of what weve already heard but phrased differently/more eloquently so as to make it seem more detailed and thus more believable.

wyomingfox wrote:There was a clarification on the warseer compiled news summary that the "morphic" part of the weapon refered to different ammunitions

This kinda makes sense, or they are just referring to the xv9 weapons (although only the pulse rifle has various submunitions). I dont really see how the existing weapons can have different munitions (except for maybe the missile pods), but perhaps it means different fire modes or something.

patients is a vitue

Patience is only a virtue (I think that's what you meant) if you're a saint, which I've never claimed to be.

chaos0xomega wrote:I don't believe the rumors. Jared offers us no really new information, just a rehashing of what weve already heard but phrased differently/more eloquently so as to make it seem more detailed and thus more believable.

Not commenting on the validity of Jared's rumors, but looking at the dates for his Chaos Rumors and comparing it to Warseer's rumor mongers, Jared was the first to mention that Mat Ward (with help of others) was writing the Chaos Codex...by over 3 months. He was also the first to state that the "Chaos Renegades codex" would be LATD focused by two weeks. He was also the first to mention "Honsou" would be in the Dex.

For Tau rumors, he is the first, and only person that I am aware of who has stated Crudace was writing Tau. Only person I am aware of that has stated a new type of missle option for the Skyray.

For Black Templars, he was the first to mention that Kelly (April) might be writing them, though he said later (November) said that BT may have been highjacked by Cruddace. He was the first to mention Zeal might be changing to Rage, the first to mention a EC SC, and a SC on a bike.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

acekevin8412 wrote:Really now? That's sounds safer than obliterator weapons.
Mind linking to the page?

FYI it didn't come from Ghost (the guy who first brought up morphic weapons). It was a rumor from Calmsword, a Warseer member, who isn't known for posting rumors. Anyways, I saw it on the summary page in green letters: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=324092

But Calmsword actual post can be found here (post #339): http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5934807#post5934807

Spent 1 minute over there (warsear) incase they have something we don't yet and all I read was

Crudace?! #%^#!!
Nids suck! now Tau will die.

yes exsadurated but honastly i've never won a game vs nids, can someone tell me whats wrong with them that everybody insantly goes emo over them?

The are a lot of choice competing for the Elite slots. Warriors were given the nerf bat. Mainly too many elite choices.

Ledabot wrote:Spent 1 minute over there (warsear) incase they have something we don't yet and all I read was

Crudace?! #%^#!!
Nids suck! now Tau will die.

yes exsadurated but honastly i've never won a game vs nids, can someone tell me whats wrong with them that everybody insantly goes emo over them?

I've almost never lost with my Tyranids.

I can definetely remember that rumour about FW being unlockable troops for etherials and the shaper thing having been said a LONG time ago. I' am not too fussed about it.

How long does it normally take after an army is released to start getting credible rumours. It all seems very up in the air at the minute whilst before everyone knew it was going to be Necrons and before that Dark Eldar; well, that was where most of the noise was at any rate. Everybody seems to be claiming it could be either Chaos, Templars, Tau and possibly Dark Angels. Personally my gut feeling is that with the whole marine, non marine cycle that they've been doing Tau are probably ruled out if the next edition is for summer next year.

Cruddace claimed that nids were designed for 6th edition, so maybe the genius will be revealed to us then.

I mean I'm not holding my breath, but that is what they said.

Alternately, perhaps cruddace has learned from his mistakes.

When did he say that?

I remember it too, But I can't find a sause (lol wrong sause). Maybe, its just one of those well known things that you can't find the origin of because its so wide spread.

Cruddace has already done enough damage to Nids and Sisters of Battle. For the greater good, please let him not ruin my first army!

SabrX wrote:Cruddace has already done enough damage to Nids and Sisters of Battle. For the greater good, please let him not ruin my first army!

See what I meen? Its like a pit of ITS RUINED FOREVER!
read the bit under Tabletop RPG. It mentions 40k, just a little bit.

I wouldn't worry so much about Cruddace, I think his work on Codex: Tyranids (which I think is the perfect level of power for a codex, just seems weak cuz so many codices are stupid powerful) was a kneejerk reaction to the borderline broken Codex: Imperial Guard that he wrote. Mat Ward would make the most blatantly powerful codex but both Cruddace and Kelly have logged a number of fantastic books; Kelly's handling of Dark Eldar was downright breathtaking, that book is so fantastic in so many ways.

SonicPara wrote:I wouldn't worry so much about Cruddace, I think his work on Codex: Tyranids (which I think is the perfect level of power for a codex, just seems weak cuz so many codices are stupid powerful) was a kneejerk reaction to the borderline broken Codex: Imperial Guard that he wrote. Mat Ward would make the most blatantly powerful codex but both Cruddace and Kelly have logged a number of fantastic books; Kelly's handling of Dark Eldar was downright breathtaking, that book is so fantastic in so many ways.

Tyranids is not at the perfect level of power when it can't compete with other codexes. The fact is, if most of the books are a certain level, that is the normal level.Tyranids are not at that level. Cruddace didn't do well with Sisters of Battle either, even if it is only a WD dex. Ward wouldn't make the most blatantly powerful dex either. SM/BA/Necrons are perfectly balanced. Cruddace has not logged a good book in 40k yet, IMO. and Kelly brought the abomination that is Space Wolves to the tabletop.

http://kroxitau.blogspot.com/2010/03/new-tau-codex-leak.html
Not sure how much of it is crap or if all of it is crap but making the contribution anyway

guyperson5 wrote:http://kroxitau.blogspot.com/2010/03/new-tau-codex-leak.html
Not sure how much of it is crap or if all of it is crap but making the contribution anyway

Check the dates on that thing, and it's all crap. It was a joke by the author.

Oh.....Damn

Sasori wrote:

SonicPara wrote:I wouldn't worry so much about Cruddace, I think his work on Codex: Tyranids (which I think is the perfect level of power for a codex, just seems weak cuz so many codices are stupid powerful) was a kneejerk reaction to the borderline broken Codex: Imperial Guard that he wrote. Mat Ward would make the most blatantly powerful codex but both Cruddace and Kelly have logged a number of fantastic books; Kelly's handling of Dark Eldar was downright breathtaking, that book is so fantastic in so many ways.

Tyranids is not at the perfect level of power when it can't compete with other codexes. The fact is, if most of the books are a certain level, that is the normal level.Tyranids are not at that level. Cruddace didn't do well with Sisters of Battle either, even if it is only a WD dex. Ward wouldn't make the most blatantly powerful dex either. SM/BA/Necrons are perfectly balanced. Cruddace has not logged a good book in 40k yet, IMO. and Kelly brought the abomination that is Space Wolves to the tabletop.

That is true however as Cruddace did not design the other codexes he can't be blamed for them being better than the Tyranids. There are only two real flaws in the Tyranid book; too much competition in the Elite slots, and the danger of Warriors falling easily to ID. The second point is due to the current metagame but could have been avoided by giving all Synapse creatures Eternal Warrior.

The vulnerability of Tyranids to SW Missile Spam, JotWW, and DEldar poison weapons, and similar, is due to GW not having a coherent strategy for writing codexes.

I find it hard to believe that Tyranids were designed for 6th edition as they were finished two years ago and at that time no-one expected 5th edition for three more years.

So in the light if this Ward might be the best man for the job? I know his fluff tends to be awfull, but he seems to understand the game better then crudd and Phil is like 50/50 on making books that work...

Kilkrazy wrote:There are only two real flaws in the Tyranid book; too much competition in the Elite slots, and the danger of Warriors falling easily to ID.

Those are the two BIG flaws, but there are way more than that.

It feels like half the book has been pre-emptively nerfed. I'm not sure what he was so scared of in the pyrovore that he had to make it unplayable.

tarnish wrote:So in the light if this Ward might be the best man for the job? I know his fluff tends to be awfull, but he seems to understand the game better then crudd and Phil is like 50/50 on making books that work...

Considering Phil wrote Orks, Eldar, and Dark Eldar, I'd say Kelly is 75/25. Even then, I don't mind Space Wolves aside from Jaws and Long Fang spam. It isn't the codex I used to have, but I like it alright. He's not really much of a loyalist Marine writer in my eyes anyway.

Rented Tritium wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:There are only two real flaws in the Tyranid book; too much competition in the Elite slots, and the danger of Warriors falling easily to ID.

Those are the two BIG flaws, but there are way more than that.

It feels like half the book has been pre-emptively nerfed. I'm not sure what he was so scared of in the pyrovore that he had to make it unplayable.

There's a ton of decent lists that can be built without Pyrovores but suffer from the Elites and Warriors issues.

All codexes contain some poor units. The SM's have the Thunder Gun, for example. Tau have Ethereals, Space Pope, Shadow Sun, Gun Drones, Stealth Suits, Vespids, Sniper Drones, the Skyray, Krootoxen and Fire Warriors.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:There are only two real flaws in the Tyranid book; too much competition in the Elite slots, and the danger of Warriors falling easily to ID.

Those are the two BIG flaws, but there are way more than that.

It feels like half the book has been pre-emptively nerfed. I'm not sure what he was so scared of in the pyrovore that he had to make it unplayable.

There's a ton of decent lists that can be built without Pyrovores but suffer from the Elites and Warriors issues.

Elites and instant death are the deal breakers, but there are not a "ton" of decent lists in the nid codex. Half the book is unusually overpriced and feels unfinished.

I will concede that there would be at least ONE competitive list without those two issues, which is something.

Frankly, I think Nid players were spoiled with synapse eternal warrior in the previous dex and just can't get over the fact that it was deservedly taken away from most of the units (including warriors). While I do think that on or two special characters creatures should have it, there's no justification for warriors having it as a unit entry rule. Their bump to 3 wounds was somewhat unwarranted (they feel better at 2 wounds, 3+ save IMO) but making them immune to instant death doesn't fix that. If the nid codex needs any rule in particular with more frequency, it's invul saves. Spamming a special rule isn't the answer.

warboss wrote:Frankly, I think Nid players were spoiled with synapse eternal warrior in the previous dex and just can't get over the fact that it was deservedly taken away from most of the units (including warriors). While I do think that on or two special characters creatures should have it, there's no justification for warriors having it as a unit entry rule. Their bump to 3 wounds was somewhat unwarranted (they feel better at 2 wounds, 3+ save IMO) but making them immune to instant death doesn't fix that. If the nid codex needs any rule in particular with more frequency, it's invul saves. Spamming a special rule isn't the answer.

Warriors could have been better dealt with as W2 and cheaper with no Eternal Warrior. It is the combination of high cost, high wounds and high vulnerability to ID that is the problem.

Kilkrazy wrote:

warboss wrote:Frankly, I think Nid players were spoiled with synapse eternal warrior in the previous dex and just can't get over the fact that it was deservedly taken away from most of the units (including warriors). While I do think that on or two special characters creatures should have it, there's no justification for warriors having it as a unit entry rule. Their bump to 3 wounds was somewhat unwarranted (they feel better at 2 wounds, 3+ save IMO) but making them immune to instant death doesn't fix that. If the nid codex needs any rule in particular with more frequency, it's invul saves. Spamming a special rule isn't the answer.

Warriors could have been better dealt with as W2 and cheaper with no Eternal Warrior. It is the combination of high cost, high wounds and high vulnerability to ID that is the problem.

I've found personally when facing Nids that I almost always have higher priority targets for my str8 weapons than warriors (tyrants, tervigons, trygons, carnifexes). They're no more vulnerable to ID than anything else in the codex barring monstrous creatures. It's just that the 3rd wound they gained (which makes them soak most normal fire a heck of alot more easily than before... people seem to forget that) makes it feel like they are. They basically got extra str1-7 soaking ability as a trade off to not shrugging off str8+ wounds. People like to harp on the later but forget the former. Like I said, I'd personally think they'd be better off thematically at 2 wounds, 3+ save, and 25pts. I just don't think the hand wringing and lamenting is warranted at their current power level. A 3 wound 4+ save T4 fearless troops choice for 30pts is NOT a bad thing. They're certainly not perfect but nor are they fatally flawed in actual practice (which kind of sums up the entire codex).

To bring this back a bit more on topic (as in Tau!), I do hope that the crisis suits (as the warrior analog) don't get the same change. I don't see a need for regular suits to be 3w and would rather have them get bumped up to a more appropriate starting BS with a slight drop in points rather than an extra wound. BS4 troop-slot suits for 5pts less than what we currently pay feels a bit more in line with the 5th edition costing of units.

Kilkrazy wrote:

warboss wrote:Frankly, I think Nid players were spoiled with synapse eternal warrior in the previous dex and just can't get over the fact that it was deservedly taken away from most of the units (including warriors). While I do think that on or two special characters creatures should have it, there's no justification for warriors having it as a unit entry rule. Their bump to 3 wounds was somewhat unwarranted (they feel better at 2 wounds, 3+ save IMO) but making them immune to instant death doesn't fix that. If the nid codex needs any rule in particular with more frequency, it's invul saves. Spamming a special rule isn't the answer.

Warriors could have been better dealt with as W2 and cheaper with no Eternal Warrior. It is the combination of high cost, high wounds and high vulnerability to ID that is the problem.

Yep.

I hate spending the extra points for another wound I never asked for that's never relevant.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

warboss wrote:To bring this back a bit more on topic (as in Tau!), I do hope that the crisis suits (as the warrior analog) don't get the same change.

I am hoping with every ounce of hope I have that they don't get that, yes.

warboss wrote:To bring this back a bit more on topic (as in Tau!), I do hope that the crisis suits (as the warrior analog) don't get the same change. I don't see a need for regular suits to be 3w and would rather have them get bumped up to a more appropriate starting BS with a slight drop in points rather than an extra wound. BS4 troop-slot suits for 5pts less than what we currently pay feels a bit more in line with the 5th edition costing of units.

My suit only ever die to ID, due to rokkits (I mostly play my brothers orcs) or in CC (either due to powerklaws or just massive number of hits). Anything that doesnt carry rokkits, like cannons or loota's, always have higher priority targets or are pretty pointless to shoot at the suits due to the saves, but its mostly dreads/deffkoptas with rokkits that ruin my suits :(. 3W would be the most pointless change ever, and it only adds more wounds to loose in cc situations, though that hardly matters because our LD sucks to begin with.

Rented Tritium wrote:
I hate spending the extra points for another wound I never asked for that's never relevant.

What armies do you face that apparently only field str8 and up weapons in their armies? If not, then the extra wound IS relevant for the vast majority of shooting statlines in the game. At best, maybe 1 in 5 weapons on a tabletop are over str8. For str1-7 weapons, you are 50% MORE survivable. Whether or not the trade off is worth it is a matter of opinion but claiming that you get no benefit is just outright false. I agree that it wasn't asked for but that doesn't mean it's not useful in some (in fact, most statistically) situations. In the end, I've already agreed multiple times that warriors would have been better at lower wounds/lower cost; the same applies to crisis suits.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MoD_Legion wrote:
My suit only ever die to ID, due to rokkits (I mostly play my brothers orcs) or in CC (either due to powerklaws or just massive number of hits). Anything that doesnt carry rokkits, like cannons or loota's, always have higher priority targets or are pretty pointless to shoot at the suits due to the saves, but its mostly dreads/deffkoptas with rokkits that ruin my suits :(. 3W would be the most pointless change ever, and it only adds more wounds to loose in cc situations, though that hardly matters because our LD sucks to begin with.

The same usually happens to me but thems the breaks for the 2nd highest priority target in the entire codex (second only to broadsides). I always joke with my opponents that my gun drones furiosly scan the air in front of the crisis suits to detect incoming str8 rounds and try to catch them. I suspect that Tau leadership will get better (as have almost every armies' except grey knights who found fear) with an upcoming book. If the imperial codicies are any indication, we won't have a choice in taking a shas ui upgrade anymore and each squad will generally get a higher LD model as part of the standard package.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Sasori wrote:

SonicPara wrote:I wouldn't worry so much about Cruddace, I think his work on Codex: Tyranids (which I think is the perfect level of power for a codex, just seems weak cuz so many codices are stupid powerful) was a kneejerk reaction to the borderline broken Codex: Imperial Guard that he wrote. Mat Ward would make the most blatantly powerful codex but both Cruddace and Kelly have logged a number of fantastic books; Kelly's handling of Dark Eldar was downright breathtaking, that book is so fantastic in so many ways.

Tyranids is not at the perfect level of power when it can't compete with other codexes. The fact is, if most of the books are a certain level, that is the normal level.Tyranids are not at that level. Cruddace didn't do well with Sisters of Battle either, even if it is only a WD dex. Ward wouldn't make the most blatantly powerful dex either. SM/BA/Necrons are perfectly balanced. Cruddace has not logged a good book in 40k yet, IMO. and Kelly brought the abomination that is Space Wolves to the tabletop.

That is true however as Cruddace did not design the other codexes he can't be blamed for them being better than the Tyranids. There are only two real flaws in the Tyranid book; too much competition in the Elite slots, and the danger of Warriors falling easily to ID. The second point is due to the current metagame but could have been avoided by giving all Synapse creatures Eternal Warrior.

The vulnerability of Tyranids to SW Missile Spam, JotWW, and DEldar poison weapons, and similar, is due to GW not having a coherent strategy for writing codexes.

I find it hard to believe that Tyranids were designed for 6th edition as they were finished two years ago and at that time no-one expected 5th edition for three more years.

I find another thing is that we are burdened with Synapse, for really not much of a benefit. I'd also say the Major over costing on TMC is huge as well. The Harpy/Carnifex/Mawloc Springs to mind. Cruddace really seems to have an issue with his points cost. Then we have all the little small things that don't make sense, like Deathspitters on TMC.

Really, it's a few major things, then a TON of small things that just add up, that end up the overall downfall of the codex. I'm really hoping in 6th That poison weapons only wound MC on 6's. I think that's at least a step in the right direction for helping out the Nid codex. If we take the hit to cover in the new rules that I'm expecting though, we're going to be hurting in that area.

I heard that every codex after BA was planned for 6th. That's the point where we started seeing Supersonic and Aerial assault on Vehicles.

Sasori wrote:
Really, it's a few major things, then a TON of small things that just add up, that end up the overall downfall of the codex. I'm really hoping in 6th That poison weapons only wound MC on 6's. I think that's at least a step in the right direction for helping out the Nid codex. If we take the hit to cover in the new rules that I'm expecting though, we're going to be hurting in that area.

I am hoping that the multi-wound model rules for spreading damage and bleeding out actually pan out.

Was just watching some of the forgeworld video thingies and came across this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEHiak3jCjc&t=4m19s

They are talking about forgeworld models being used in codices and Will mentions 'a few models in the tau range' going over to a codex. Not sure if it was just wishlisting from people before, but this would seems to support the rumours that we are getting some cool forgeworld toys.

Well IIRC Piranhas and Skyrays made the jump, so maybe he is looking to the past, not the future.

The forgeworld tau range is pretty huge and about half of it seems pretty reasonable in terms of fluff and power level, so that would be nice.

Most likely would be either the dual gun piranha or the special battlesuits. Tau technology marches forward unlike the rest of 40k, so it makes sense to have hardware revisions on suits.

Tetras, Xv-9s and TX-42s would be welcomed in the codex by most Tau players.

With a few mods some of the Drone and Kroot units could be pretty reasonable too.

We'll probably see the Barracuda and Remoras jump to give the Tau a Flyer choice or two.

Hmm yea actually, looking back at the clip he is talking about the valkyrie and drop pods as example as well. I'm so easily excitable :(.

It's alright, we understand.

think drones as troops might be possible i've always wanted to field an all drone force. Remoras would be enough to get me back into collecting tau.

Lolwut?

That doesn't make any sense, nor is it based off of the current rumors.

Remoras would be cool though.

Tau perimeter defense force IA something. Lotsa drones/turrets. Not sure on the command structure on it, but an all drone force would be hilarious.

All drone would be pretty funny. Could include a special rule that makes Tyranids and Necrons lose by default because they can't give a feth about attacking them.

Drones can't be a scoring unit.

Or can they?

That would just be weird.

Technically the Tau shouldn't have scoring units anyway. They don't believe in holding objectives, instead they focus purely on destroying the enemy first, then worry about claiming the field after the enemy is dead.

Might be entertaining to see them integrate that into the new codex somehow, something like in objective based missions the Tau can't claim objectives but instead score Kill Points like in Annihilation Missions.

But that's probably too weird a rule. Then again, with all the talk of tau having no troops, who knows how weird they are willing to let the Tau get?

Jefffar wrote:Technically the Tau shouldn't have scoring units anyway. They don't believe in holding objectives, instead they focus purely on destroying the enemy first, then worry about claiming the field after the enemy is dead.

Let's not take characterizations of the Tau too far. Tau military doctrine doesn't hold with holding fortified defensive positions, sure. That's a campaign-level strategic doctrine. 40K represents a much smaller slice in time. It seems reasonable that Tau would hold some objectives on the battlefield, not because their campaign-level doctrine requires them to fortify a position, but because those objectives are required for or most efficiently enable clearing the area of enemy. A strategic drop zone from which reinforcements can be deployed, high ground that offers a clear view of the battlefield, an objective known to be desired by the enemy- these are all easily imaginable reasons for the Tau to have mission-level objectives.

Besides, we don't want GW to tinker too much in that level of rules. I remember back when Necrons and Dark Eldar were never allowed to be defenders in missions. It got really dull really fast because it limited the variety of games we could play. Personally, I like allowing a little grey area in racial characterizing like this because it allows "the rule of cool" to come into play. Eldar aren't supposed to build fortifications either but Forgeworld found an excuse to justify the tres cool Haven Class Spire. I'd like to see the same possibilities with Tau. Because I think a Tau bunker/modular fortification would be damn cool, and thus should be allowed.

Updated (and in case of the Sentry Drones improved) versions of the Tau static position drones were in Imperial Armour 3. These mostly seemed oriented to an area denial philosophy rather than for holding a position.

nobody wrote:

The Ubersuit is a Battletech/Mechwarrior sort of thing (probably Dreadknight sized), with a special 'ridiculous' ability that lets it rain down shooting if it stands still.
Looks a bit like one of the Battletech Mechs that is named after an ancient weapon

Interesting. I'd want to guess Catapult or Longbow based on the whole "raining down fire" part.

Ok and I call Javalin

JOHIRA wrote:Personally, I like allowing a little grey area in racial characterizing like this because it allows "the rule of cool" to come into play. Eldar aren't supposed to build fortifications either but Forgeworld found an excuse to justify the tres cool Haven Class Spire.

Silly question, but why is that BFG model listed in the Warhammer 40,000 section?

Half of the post on this page is about nids? Can not start itown topic?

Suits need not to be ID and what that guy wrote on "http://kroxitau.blogspot.com/2010/03/new-tau-codex-leak.html "
hopefully will come true. Gun drones should be fearless, they are just machines.

thevirus wrote:Half of the post on this page is about nids? Can not start itown topic?.

None of the posts on this page are about nids. If you're going to complain about an off topic discussion, try not to do it a few days AFTER its already stopped and the thread is on topic.

warboss wrote:

thevirus wrote:Half of the post on this page is about nids? Can not start itown topic?.

None of the posts on this page are about nids. If you're going to complain about an off topic discussion, try not to do it a few days AFTER its already stopped and the thread is on topic.

not fearless, stubborn. Failing a LD check doesn't mean you got scared it means either you got scared and routed or made a tactical decision to rout. Drones don't get scared, but they have simple logic engines that could tell them to route for a myriad of reasons.

thevirus wrote:Suits need not to be ID and what that guy wrote on "http://kroxitau.blogspot.com/2010/03/new-tau-codex-leak.html "
hopefully will come true. Gun drones should be fearless, they are just machines.

Look at the date: It was a leaked version of the Tau Codex released summer 2011

I like totally heard from a redshirt that Tau will be getting railgun pistols 18" range Assault AP1, to go with new super cool ninja suits and anti pirate flachette rounds.

most offical.

Kroothawk wrote:

thevirus wrote:Suits need not to be ID and what that guy wrote on "http://kroxitau.blogspot.com/2010/03/new-tau-codex-leak.html "
hopefully will come true. Gun drones should be fearless, they are just machines.

Look at the date: It was a leaked version of the Tau Codex released summer 2011

Also read the intro to the post and more importantly, the comments down below.

In regards to this rumor posted a while back



Some clarification from Jared below:

Librarium Online's Jared Van Kell wrote:

Liberium Online'sSwamp_slug wrote: Sorry JvK, could you clarify this point a bit as I'm not sure I quite understand?

From your information are you saying that if my HQ choices were a Battlesuit Commander and a Kroot Master Shaper then I would not be able to take Fire Warriors or Demiurg Warrior squads at all or that they are all available irrespective of your HQ choices and the presence of the associated HQ just grants them better in some way?

I'm hoping its the latter.

Thanks.

From what I understand they become troops. However I have a strong feeling that firewarriors are going to be remaining as troops that can be taken irrespective of what commander you taken but that the different commanders allow you to take other units as troops instead.
With regard to ethereals I believe that they will allow honour guard to be be taken as troops (with BS4 and preferred enemy) or at least allow firewarriors to be upgraded to honour guard.
For the kroot carnivor squads and demiurg warrior squads and indeed the other kroot/demiurg units as well I do believe the rumour is correct in that you will have to take a shaper/ancient to be able to take them. For Crisis battlesuit teams I am sure taking a tau commander they are moved from elites to troops instead or at least become scoring.

Well that compleatly ruined the idea of an all allies force. You could only take two out of the 4 new races.

Only 2 of the 4 as troops.

The other races are still available, but not in the scoring slots of the FOC.

I imagine the Kroot end up as Elite or Fast Attack. Demi-Urg as Elite or Heavy. The Vespid are already Fast Attack, not sure on the other unit they will end up with (part of me wants to see a big mother queen vespid MC that moves like Jump Infantry, has Fleet and is a Heavy Support choice) and we have that mystery race as well.

Yeah, I'm just gonna picture the shock on an SM player's face when a Vespid Queen makes a 24 inch charge move and eats his land raider.

Ethereals allowing honor guard and fire warriors being troops no matter what makes a LOT more sense, design wise.

Rented Tritium wrote:Ethereals allowing honor guard and fire warriors being troops no matter what makes a LOT more sense, design wise.

Yup seems likely, and hopefully the firewarriors get a few more options, I dont really care about stat bonus, just gimme some gear . I have invested way to much money in my FW squads to even consider shelving them.

BTW Rented Tritium nice avatar pic, good taste in movies

Rented Tritium wrote:Ethereals allowing honor guard and fire warriors being troops no matter what makes a LOT more sense, design wise.

This makes the most logical sense. Honor guard will probably have better BS, LD, and maybe even options to special upgrades.

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:Ethereals allowing honor guard and fire warriors being troops no matter what makes a LOT more sense, design wise.

Yup seems likely, and hopefully the firewarriors get a few more options, I dont really care about stat bonus, just gimme some gear . I have invested way to much money in my FW squads to even consider shelving them.

BTW Rented Tritium nice avatar pic, good taste in movies

Always with the negative waves!

I think that the HQ unlocking troop choices is kinda silly. That would mean that most Tau armies would completely lose either their troops or elites...

Jefffar wrote:Only 2 of the 4 as troops.
The other races are still available, but not in the scoring slots of the FOC.

Not if the rumour about percentages instead of FOC in 6th edition are true: With a cheap HQ spam you can take several HQs and make all races troops.

paulson games wrote:I like totally heard from a redshirt that Tau will be getting railgun pistols 18" range Assault AP1, to go with new super cool ninja suits and anti pirate flachette rounds.

most offical.

I don't know about the pistols, sounds pritty weird since railguns work using electro-magnetisum to fire solid projectiles. The shorter the barral, the slower they go. A pistol is pushing it a bit far I think. Knowing GW, they might pull anything. Just shove rail on the front and its cooler! The suits, well we know about 'sniper suits'. That could be the same thing, and we already have flachette launchers. Maybe a rule change?

On another note, I'm wondering if the 6th eddition stuff will have a new design for the front cover like the wfb books are diffrent. We will miss out. :(

Anti pirate flachette rounds will be so cool.
They are like s12 ap-1 large blast and with awesome 2" range.
I've also heard the ninja suit model will be just an emty 40mm base with a little rock on it for like 30 bucks, but it's sooo awesome that everyone just has to buy it.

And yea I'm totally sure the rail pistol will be in the codex,
along with the Flaming Broadsword of Doom, that replaces the Bonding Knifes.

Do you really have to jump on every bit of rumor that is posted here?
Is the situation so desperate?... >.<

Ledabot wrote:

paulson games wrote:I like totally heard from a redshirt that Tau will be getting railgun pistols 18" range Assault AP1, to go with new super cool ninja suits and anti pirate flachette rounds.

most offical.

I don't know about the pistols, sounds pritty weird since railguns work using electro-magnetisum to fire solid projectiles. The shorter the barral, the slower they go. A pistol is pushing it a bit far I think. Knowing GW, they might pull anything. Just shove rail on the front and its cooler! The suits, well we know about 'sniper suits'. That could be the same thing, and we already have flachette launchers. Maybe a rule change?

On another note, I'm wondering if the 6th eddition stuff will have a new design for the front cover like the wfb books are diffrent. We will miss out. :(

pssst... It's all a joke. Just google pirates vs ninjas to see what the anti-pirate ninja gun refers to.

I know this isnt in the rumors but is it so much to hope for a tau scenery kit similar in scale to the imperial strongpoint or fortress of redemption kits?

I personally am at the point of buying one of those kits for a conversion of sorts, but that would be a massive undertaking that I'm not ready for yet.

Bluetau wrote:I know this isnt in the rumors but is it so much to hope for a tau scenery kit similar in scale to the imperial strongpoint or fortress of redemption kits?

I personally am at the point of buying one of those kits for a conversion of sorts, but that would be a massive undertaking that I'm not ready for yet.

Yeah, that's entirely too much to hope for. It's safe to release Imperial-based terrain since half of all the armies in this game are Imperial, and a lot of players will have use of it. Releasing race-specific terrain for just one army of sixteen is entirely too niche. In resin it's possible, like we saw with the Ork barricades, but I wouldn't expect a plastic Tau terrain kit at all.

Yes, it would be totally unrealistic to pour some resin into this ready form and make instant profit:
http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/Tau_-_Unreleased



Better make a 10000$ plastic mould for a rare choice of a rare army (beastmen) in a rare game (Warhammer Fantasy): Cygor/Ghorgon

I just hope the new Tau codex gives Kroot some actual close combat ability. I've been running my Kroot Mercenaries as Dark Eldar for the past few months, using Kroot as Wyches. Last weekend, I fought a Tau opponent in a tournament, and when my 15-Wych (Kroot) unit assaulted his actual 20-model Kroot unit, I killed all of them at initiative 6. We both had to reflect on how pathetic Kroot actually are.

Kroothawk wrote:Yes, it would be totally unrealistic to pour some resin into this ready form and make instant profit:
http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/Tau_-_Unreleased



Better make a 10000$ plastic mould for a rare choice of a rare army (beastmen) in a rare game (Warhammer Fantasy): Cygor/Ghorgon

In resin I think that's a great investment. Plastic still seems too expensive to produce though. However, a rare choice in a rare army is often a new thing to add to your army. This will usually make people buy a few, especially if it's considered powerful. Let's say a new Tau elite unit is released. Almost every Tau player will buy one or more. If a piece of Tau terrain is released, only people who own terrain boards are going to buy them, and even then it will only be people who own terrain boards and play Tau.

Charistoph wrote:I was talking with someone yesterday about some of the rumors HE heard, and sadly, my memory fails me on all the specifics, but one thing he brought up was a Centauroid race being a new race. I forgot to ask him the source of his rumors, as he was just another joe in the LGS, but he had a lot of rumors under his belt that diverted wildly from what has been posted here.

ghost21 wrote:Hate to burst people's bubble, but Zoats are a fantasy race again.
All I know about the other race is: they MAY have 6 limbs.

PaperStraw wrote:Ghost, is this one of the new species? This was a piece of unseen concept art for the Tau auxillaries that I got ahold of. I don't think it's ever been posted on the internet before.

Well seeing how Roberto Cirillo told me first hand that all the art he wants to sell me is unrelated to the vespid, I'd have to disagree.
This page is from when he was doing the concept art for a new auxillary force for the tau though, which in the end was decided to be the vespid.
I will also say that I was distinctly told these two concepts were independent from the vespid concepts, not early vespid art:



So this is another possibility for a 6-limbed Tau Auxillary. Though I doubt they would induct another insectoid auxillary.
I will also also say that there is another centauroid race, similar to the above posted links, though it is a bit more reptilian in appearance.

As a last little gift for the day. Here is another six-limbed xenos concept.

I like the art, but if they'e not vespid, what are they?!

:looks at the link:

Tau Defensive complex? Yes. I'll take 2.

WHY does GW not do these?!? (Yes, I know. The money. But good god let FW do them then!)

When ghost21 mentions zoats being a fantasy race, does he mean WFB only race or that zoats being revised is a fantasy.
If its the former id dispute that because a being called "Zoat" is clearly mentioned in the Space Marine novel by Ian Watson, it was inside a tyranid hive ship.

OH MY GOD, whats wrong with their faces?

They look horrible.
Especialy the first one. Resembles a car accident.


I don´t like where this is going and don´t even play Tau..

ghost21 wrote:One of those is close to the vespid heavy.

Interesting, yet also disappointing.

I was kinda hoping for a Vespid Heavy that was like the queen vespid or something, big honking MC that moved like jump infantry.

Okay, what the hell is this?

Sidstyler wrote:

Okay, what the hell is this?

What, you've never played Bioshock?

Imagine, GW ripping off someone else's IP....the HORROR!!

Actually Copyright on the picture shows 2005, Bioshock was released 2007.

So if the image is derivative, wasn't from Bioshock.

Humor check....failed.

I play Tau, that uses up all the humour I have.

Jefffar wrote:I play Tau, that uses up all the humour I have.

lol

But no, the design doesn't make me think Big Daddy, just...wtf?

4 arms and a claw dagger - perhaps this will turn into some sort of melee monster.

Jefffar wrote:4 arms and a claw dagger - perhaps this will turn into some sort of melee monster.

I wouldnt complain about a CC unit that had high initiative and multiple attacks, its definitely a sore spot in the Tau

Or a unit that can sit on an objective.

4 arms to hold 4 pulse rifles?

It looks like a way old-school retro-futuristic "raygun gothic" style sci-fi design, not at all fitting with the Tau's streamlined high-tech stylings.

Yeah, something like that. I don't like it, lol.

Why does it have to match the Tau aesthetic, if they are a co-opded race they will have their own style just as the kroot does.
This adds more variety to the codex and thats a good thing.

spiraleddie wrote:Why does it have to match the Tau aesthetic, if they are a co-opded race they will have their own style just as the kroot does.
This adds more variety to the codex and thats a good thing.

It doesn't. Kroot and Vespid don't match and they're fine.

Variety is a good thing, but personally I just don't find this design all that interesting. So if it doesn't make me want to buy models then in my opinion no, it's not a good thing.

Really, I kind of dig the diver suit look. While I'm sure that's a side effect from playing Bioshock, I'd be awfully tempted to buy one.

Though I wouldn't be surprised at all if they didn't use this design almost 7 years later.

spiraleddie wrote:Why does it have to match the Tau aesthetic, if they are a co-opded race they will have their own style just as the kroot does.
This adds more variety to the codex and thats a good thing.

Hate to break it to you but both the Kroot and Vespid fall into the Tau's overall aesthetic, the vespid more so than the kroot, but the Kroot are not so alien that they will stick out like a sore thumb. That concept there is so foreign and alien, that it would appear to be a model co-opted from a completely different game.

chaos0xomega wrote:

spiraleddie wrote:Why does it have to match the Tau aesthetic, if they are a co-opded race they will have their own style just as the kroot does.
This adds more variety to the codex and thats a good thing.

Hate to break it to you but both the Kroot and Vespid fall into the Tau's overall aesthetic, the vespid more so than the kroot, but the Kroot are not so alien that they will stick out like a sore thumb. That concept there is so foreign and alien, that it would appear to be a model co-opted from a completely different game.

Please explain how the Kroot fall into the Tau aesthetic? I can't think of one way in which they match. Sure the Vespid use Tau tech, but the Kroot? Savage, tribal, CC oriented? Almost opposites, except that they fight for the greater good.

They fit in because they don't clash visually with everything else in the Tau army. They feel at home. If you look at the armor of those minis, they look like they are from a completely different universe and a completely different time period. They do not blend at all with anything else out there, neither Tau nor any other Xenos species.

You probably don't consider them clashing that much visually because you've gotten used to seeing kroot in a Tau army, I think the aesthetic of these MC's are very similar to vespids so will fit in to a Tau army with time. I quite like how the concept looks personally.

Also, is that diver suit specifically a Tau concept or just a random concept he decided to post as a treat?

Errr, I was referring specifically to the diver suit (as being the one that clashes), which I assume is a Tau concept...

Tau dont have 4 arms, hence the diver suit thing is probably not Tau.

Since we're dropping Cirillo's cool concept work, do guys mind if I drop some stuff?

I own 15 crisis suits.... if GW redid them to look like that... I would buy another 15

Sleek, I think that is what I like about that concept art. Less boxy, more streamlined. I like.

Mmm, yes please.

Didn't the original rumors say that the crisis suits were being redone to look a little less boxy? If so, hopefully they turn out like that concept art... The second drawing in particular...

chaos0xomega wrote:I own 15 crisis suits.... if GW redid them to look like that... I would buy another 15

At £15 each?

I would love to have my Crisis Suits look Gundam-ish.

Kilkrazy wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:I own 15 crisis suits.... if GW redid them to look like that... I would buy another 15

At £15 each?

Psh pound sterling? Please, I'm an American, I use a real currency ;P

I'd obviously purchase them at some sort of discount, i'm a frugal warhammer-er

SabrX wrote:I would love to have my Crisis Suits look Gundam-ish.

That would guarantee GW gets none of my money.

Cirillo's designs are awesome. No reason to toss them out the window and turn the crisis suits into leggy robot samurai. Because if you want Gundam suits, buy kits from Bandai. GW will never produce plastic models of the quality Bandai does at a reasonable price. GW would be better off trying to make the Tau the best possible interpretation of their own unique designs than trying to copy another company's IP, especially when that IP's presence in western markets was a fad that ceased being popular long ago and now has only niche appeal.

Where are those suit pics coming from?!?

JOHIRA wrote:IP's presence in western markets was a fad that ceased being popular long ago and now has only niche appeal.

Really now?
The Tau are still a rarther popular army in 40k in large part attribute to their obviously anime-gundam designs and Japanese influence. It's hardly niche when GW made an entire army and made it popular based on a "fad".

jspyd3rx wrote:Where are those suit pics coming from?!?

Due to fencing making me stay after in school (from 2:35 to 7:00), I decided to scour through Advanced Tau Tactica (the last of the unblocked 40k forums on my school computers) for some interesting articles and discussions to eat at my time until practice began.

And low and behold the gem of an article I found in their resource articles section! http://advancedtautactica.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=17717

Absolutionis wrote:[their obviously anime-gundam designs

Yeah, there actually isn't any of this. Have you ever actually looked at a mobile suit Gundam design? The robots look absolutely unlike anything the Tau get. Completely different designs.

JOHIRA wrote:

Absolutionis wrote:[their obviously anime-gundam designs

Yeah, there actually isn't any of this. Have you ever actually looked at a mobile suit Gundam design? The robots look absolutely unlike anything the Tau get. Completely different designs.

Except it is everything of what he said. It is no secret that the Tau were modeled after anime-esk designs. I'm fairly certain they had a press conference were they even admitted that was their inspiration.
Now the current crisis suits are pretty damn Gundam like. Maybe not the Gundams of the main characters, but similar to the mass produced models. Though I have to say that if the designs follow any true pattern they look
a lot more like "Armored Core" models, specifically that concept art posted. And in the long run Armored Core is just anime in game form. I honestly think GW should embrace it a lot more in their model making for the Tau, because it's
obvious that they're the selling ideas. Especially with anime getting deeper and deeper into Western Society and extremely popular with the younger generation.

Tbh when I look at those concept sketches, what I see are xv-9's, or atleast major parts of them. Especially the heads and knees are exactly the same as those used on the xv-9 suits.
While I hope new crisis suits look more like these concepts, there is a big chance these formed the basis for the xv-9 suits and not any redesign of crisis suits. Guess we just have to wait and see.

Still good looking tho

MoD_Legion wrote:Tbh when I look at those concept sketches, what I see are xv-9's, or atleast major parts of them. Especially the heads and knees are exactly the same as those used on the xv-9 suits.
While I hope new crisis suits look more like these concepts, there is a big chance these formed the basis for the xv-9 suits and not any redesign of crisis suits. Guess we just have to wait and see.

I mostly see XV9 in concept image 2 and 4, but I can sorta agree that the others sorta look like 'em.

Dantalian wrote:
Except it is everything of what he said. It is no secret that the Tau were modeled after anime-esk designs. I'm fairly certain they had a press conference were they even admitted that was their inspiration.

Anime is not a design. Anime is not an art style. Anime is not a genre. Anime is a medium. All anime is is animation from Japan. Even in the sub-genre of mecha anime, there is no consistent look. If anyone at GW ever claimed the Tau to be anime-esk, that just shows they didn't do their research and don't know what they're talking about. The statement is so empty, it would be equivalent to saying their next army will look like an oil painting.

Incidentally, the fan community has collectively made up a bunch of myths about the Tau. Another one that everyone seems to be absolutely convinced is true without there being any evidence to support it is that the Tau were a strategy of GW's to get into the Japanese market.

Now the current crisis suits are pretty damn Gundam like. Maybe not the Gundams of the main characters, but similar to the mass produced models. Though I have to say that if the designs follow any true pattern they look
a lot more like "Armored Core" models, specifically that concept art posted.

You're going to have to show me an example of exactly what you mean, because I don't know of any Gundam that remotely resembles crisis suits. And to say they look like Armored Core is especially baffling to me, because AC mecha are an entirely different design. I know they are both from Asia, but that doesn't mean they all look the same.

And in the long run Armored Core is just anime in game form.

So is Final Fantasy. So is Bomberman. That doesn't mean the Tau look like either of those. Anime != Gundam != Tau.

JOHIRA, are you really saying that Tau are not influenced by a Western take on Japanese fighting-robot animation? Really?

Manchu wrote:JOHIRA, are you really saying that Tau are not influenced by a Western take on Japanese fighting-robot animation? Really?

No, I'm not. I'm saying the Tau look nothing like Gundams, and that I would not buy them if they did look like Gundams and I think encouraging GW to make them look more like Gundams is bad for GW's business.

As for your claim that that Tau are influenced by a Western take on Japanese fighting-robot animation, I disagree with it to a lesser extent because "Japanese fighting-robot animation" is a broad genre with no single visual style. But at least it's more accurate than to say they look like Gundams.

I think he's saying that there's influence, but that doesn't mean much, as Japanese fighting-robot animation is actually a pretty massive genre.

But that's just my take.

In general, the 'major' subdivisions are "Real Robot" and "Super Robot." As a guideline, if there's mass-production of mecha, it's Real Robot. (Personally, I get confused as Gundam series seem to have a lot of 'Super Robot' unique one-of-a-kind prototypes out there.) 40k Dreadnoughts could be considered to partake in this genre as well, really.

He's not saying they haven't been influenced by anime. What he's saying is that you can't just say that Tau=anime=gundam=AC=Japanese robots.

EDIT: Oof, ninja'd by Balance. I agree with you.

Your "real" vs "super" distinction is interesting. I never realized that before.

Well, it is obvious that Mechas are popular in Japan, look quite similar to each other and to Tau battlesuits.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecha

The original tau painting scheme copied the Japanese army scheme from WW2, the long time isolation, the god-like leader, the lack of shown emotions, the lack of individualism, the rapid technological advance are all nods to Japanese history and culture.

Wow.

Okay, so who else here is surprised that anime has significantly NOTHING to do with the Tau design?

Manchu wrote:Wow.

Okay, so who else here is surprised that anime has significantly NOTHING to do with the Tau design?

That's not what he said. He said you can't equivocate tau with anime and simply take anything from anime and call it Tau.

EDIT:

Kroothawk wrote:Well, it is obvious that Mechas are popular in Japan, look quite similar to each other and to Tau battlesuits.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecha

The original tau painting scheme copied the Japanese army scheme from WW2, the long time isolation, the god-like leader, the lack of shown emotions, the lack of individualism, the rapid technological advance are all nods to Japanese history and culture.

That is really insightful.... I hadn't realized that, either. I need to think more often...

Sentinel wrote:He said you can't equivocate tau with anime and simply take anything from anime and call it Tau.

I don't think anyone was talking about taking anything anime but rather Gunduam-esque designs. Now, I'm not a Gundam/anime-nut but it doesn't seem nearly as implausible as JOHIRA is saying that GW took design cues from what, from a Western perspective, is actually more of a genre than a medium.

Kroothawk wrote:Well, it is obvious that Mechas are popular in Japan, look quite similar to each other and to Tau battlesuits.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecha

I don't agree it is obvious at all. Here are some mecha examples:
Gundam, Macross, Evangelion, RaXephon, Sakura Wars, Ghost in the Shell, Patlabor, Votoms, and Armored Core, just to show a few.

While there might be some common design elements between one or two of those robots, overall it strains credibility to say they look quite similar to each other, or that they even look like each other at all. And absolutely none of them look like a crisis suit. Hell, we may as well start calling Ork Defdreds a take-off of Sakura Wars if we're going to apply the tenuous reasoning shown by the Tau = Gundams crowd.

the god-like leader,

The Tau do not have a god-like leader, and while the Japanese emperors have been said to be descended from a goddess, it takes a pretty superficial reading of Japanese history to say that they were God-like either.

the lack of shown emotions,

Where does it say in the fluff that Tau don't show emotions?

And incidentally, anyone who has lived in Japan for any length of time will tell you that Japanese people show emotions all the time.

the lack of individualism,

Where does it say the Tau lack individualism?

And that's a pretty racist claim to make about the Japanese to boot.

I do recall hearing that someone involved in the visual design of the Fire Caste Warrior armour did say that it was a nod to Japanese ashigaru, though personally I think that's even superficial in that all they really have in common is baggy pants with folds in them.

But with this Tau/Japan connection, I think what's actually happening is that the Tau were designed to be exotic. They are supposed to look like they come from a completely different culture. And so what you are seeing is not an actual connection to actual Japan, but rather a connection to the exoticised stereotype westerners who know little of Japan often think represents "the mysterious orient" (said with my eyes rolled firmly into the back of my head.) It's possible that someone at GW thought they were being inspired by Japan when they designed the Tau, but the inspiration is shallow. Kinda like a couple years back when someone had a project they wanted to recruit a voice-actor to speak for Tau in some video game, and the ad specified they wanted an actor who could do "an Asian accent".

Saying that the Tau were a strategy for getting Japanese people to buy minis is about as absurd and insulting as saying that Necrons were a strategy to get Egyptians to buy minis. I think GW has made some pretty bone-headed decisions lately, but even I wouldn't say they are that stupid.

It's clear that the Tau were designed from oriental inspirations of a mix of Japanese and Chinese sources.

The original design articles on the GW web site said it specifically.

They didn't talk about anime/Gundam as such.

The theme music for Tau in Dark Crusade was definitely influenced by Japanese music or some kind of racist Western caricature of Japanese music.

The Japanese are a primarily Collectivistic culture rather than an Individualistic. if you think this is a racist comment I'd be glad to put you in touch with my Fiance to discuss it. She's the lecturer in Cross-Cultural Psych at one of the universities in town this winter term. She also happens to have been born in Osaka, Japan.

There are definitely a number of Asian influences on the Tau. Mecha are but a part of it.

They are a rising power in the east.

Collectivist culture.

Their leaders are revered and have an origin story tied into the skies (remember in the Tau language Aun can translate as Celestial instead of Ethereal).

They have a caste culture.

With these things we can see ties to China, India and Japan.

The also apparently have problems with their eye sight (a common slur against Japanese around World War 2 and Chnese in the Korean War) and are slightly smaller than an average human (again smaller size is a common trait attributed to Asians - though this is changing).


So while I wouldn't call them exclusively based off the Japanese, their cultural and design elements do reflect a sampling of Asian cultures and stereotypes.

Jefffar wrote:The Japanese are a primarily Collectivistic culture rather than an Individualistic.

That binary is, I daresay, rather Western. I'd recommend this book to your fiancee: http://www.amazon.com/Soil-Foundations-translation-Xiaotongs-Zhongguo/dp/0520077962

Jefffar wrote:The Japanese are a primarily Collectivistic culture rather than an Individualistic. if you think this is a racist comment I'd be glad to put you in touch with my Fiance to discuss it. She's the lecturer in Cross-Cultural Psych at one of the universities in town this winter term. She also happens to have been born in Osaka, Japan.

There are definitely a number of Asian influences on the Tau. Mecha are but a part of it.

They are a rising power in the east.

Collectivist culture.

Their leaders are revered and have an origin story tied into the skies (remember in the Tau language Aun can translate as Celestial instead of Ethereal).

They have a caste culture.

With these things we can see ties to China, India and Japan.

The also apparently have problems with their eye sight (a common slur against Japanese around World War 2 and Chnese in the Korean War) and are slightly smaller than an average human (again smaller size is a common trait attributed to Asians - though this is changing).


So while I wouldn't call them exclusively based off the Japanese, their cultural and design elements do reflect a sampling of Asian cultures and stereotypes.

You can also corrolate most of that with Western equivalents instead of using a broad brush to stereotype individuals.
Western culture has/had the following:
Rising powers...the sun never sets on the British Empire.
Communism.
Heavenly mandate rulers....Roman Empire all the way down to the British Monarchy and the Pope.
Europe did castes too, that entire period known as the Middle Ages.
Western culture has a problem with weight so I guess Sumo is Western.

Manchu wrote:The theme music for Tau in Dark Crusade was definitely influenced by Japanese music or some kind of racist Western caricature of Japanese music.

It sounded rather Chinese to me.

*Aside*
Hold a tick, I'm seeing some key words here. "Communism", "Anime", "Japan", "Culture"? I've seen enough Tau threads to know where this is going

JOHIRA wrote:
You can also corrolate most of that with Western equivalents instead of using a broad brush to stereotype individuals.
Western culture has/had the following:
Rising powers...the sun never sets on the British Empire.
Communism.
Heavenly mandate rulers....Roman Empire all the way down to the British Monarchy and the Pope.
Europe did castes too, that entire period known as the Middle Ages.
Western culture has a problem with weight so I guess Sumo is Western.

Don't forget us Americans and our Manifest Destiny back in the 19th century.

JOHIRA wrote:
Saying that the Tau were a strategy for getting Japanese people to buy minis is about as absurd and insulting as saying that Necrons were a strategy to get Egyptians to buy minis. I think GW has made some pretty bone-headed decisions lately, but even I wouldn't say they are that stupid.

What? No one has ever said this, in fact it was the opposite of your claim. Everyone is saying that the Oriental design of Tau is to make them sell better in the WEST, not the opposite. Unless you can back up your claim that we said this.

What a fascinating and quite subjective study on the various artistic, cultural and historical influences which have inspired games workshop.

Sincerely, it is indeed fascinating stuff and interesting to see where different perspectives can either group influences or separate them with specificity where a handful of individuals has a significant passion about debating it.

However, can this either move the debate to another thread (or move this thread) and do we have new tau rumors?

As a competitive tau player (yes, I know, its an oxymoron) I would like to know about any news for my beloved Tau...

I think you need to view Tau in context of the 40K universe, they are the most "anime" race of all the 40k races. And I think anime used in this context is anything with obvious giant mecha style battlesuits, i.e. gundam, macross or even armoured core.
Anime is used in the same way we would describe imperial styling as gothic it is not specific whether its french gothic or german gothic or even a specific artists gothic, but it is still gothic.

I posted this in 40k release schedule, but I copy the relevant parts here as well:

stickmonkey wrote:My sources are giving me the following general timelines of codex releases

2012
Q1/2 - tau (or flipped w BT)
Q2/3 - BT ( possible WD codex)
Q3 - 6 Ed
Q3/4 - eldar
(...)

StraightSilver wrote:Tau in Q1 is a very big possibility. I had been told that Tau have had new models ready since June 2011 by somebody who has (allegedly) seen them. I was under the impression they would get a wave release with a WD update but this seems to have been canned in favour of a Codex. From June to Q1 is enough time to develop a Dex so that's certainly possible.
(...)
That's the problem, it's not unheard of for GW to have models ready for months / years and still sit on them, so Tau could be Q1 or not even next year.

interesting that there is no mention of chaos in that timeline...

Yeah, I wonder what's holding chaos back if that's true.

Not really shocked at the idea that models are done. When you remember that a lot of work probably goes into producing the sample models and designing boxes and getting new trademarks, etc etc, it's not hard to imagine that the models need to be done pretty far in advance.

BarBoBot wrote:interesting that there is no mention of chaos in that timeline...

I edited it out, see other thread.

Anyway, hope the following rumour is not true:

StraightSilver wrote:From what I have heard I wouldn't get too excited about new Battle and Crisis Suits as they aren't getting new models.
They will have recut sprues with more weapon options but the models themselves will remain the same AFAIK.
However there will definitely be some other brand new Tau models.
(...)
From what I remember being told the suits themselves remain pretty much the same, I was told the sprues had been recut to allow more options.
I am assuming that means weapon options, with the kits going all plastic.
(...)
Well I have to say that this is just what I have heard, someone I know who works at GW was involved in the Tau minis (I can't say in what capacity as it will give the game away) and told me months ago that he had seen the finished models.

However the same source said that Tau would get a minis release without a Codex, with a WD update for some of the new auxillaries.

That now seems very unlikely, so it is also possible he is wrong about the minis, but I do trust him, he's normally very reliable and it's possible that since the models were done GW changed their minds and decided to release a Codex after all.

He was adamant that the sprues for the Crisis and battle suits were simply recut to allow for more weapons options and to make the kits all plastc, but that was apparently all that had changed.

The existing Crisis suits are still pretty damn cool. It wouldn't be terrible not to have what's already out completely outmoded.

Switched to 100% FW Suits long ago, because I don't like the standard suits.

I wouldn't be too averse to keeping the current suits. If the recut he mentions means that broadsides will be an option buildable from the crisis kit, I would welcome that change just as much as a redone suit.

FW are infinitely better, but XV8s are still good enough for me. I can only imagine though how many more suits they would sell if they redid the design to be more XV9ish.

XV9s are beautiful, no argument here.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2130364a_Blog201211_9_XL.jpg

But I still love the XV8s. They have a blocky '80s feel that appeals to my inner-Transformers fan.

I'm with Manchu. I love the current XV8s, and hope they don't change that much...But, I also really like the XV9s

The only thing I don't like are the GW Broadsides...All my 'sides are Forge World

I like the sense that the tau technology is evolving. I'm fine if it doesn't change drastically though, since then I can be happy with visual advancement of tech, but other people can be happy because they still have boxy suits.

Just maybe, a tiny bit less boxy each time to show the advancement.

@Rented Tritium: It'd really be cool to see an all-XV8 O'Shovah-led force on a table in an era where everyone else was using XV9 models.

Manchu wrote:@Rented Tritium: It'd really be cool to see an all-XV8 O'Shovah-led force on a table in an era where everyone else was using XV9 models.

Similar to Zaku Is and Zaku IIs in Mobile Suit Gundam?

Me Gusta

I wonder if anyone have seen this.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/64983952/Demiurg

Nice weapon against MEQ.


And a elite choice for the TAU.

Thevirus, why should anyone care about a homemade document?

Demiurg = Mondoshawans? LOL

MasterSlowPoke wrote:Thevirus, why should anyone care about a homemade document?

Yes you are right. Sorry all games and their supplements are made in a top secret vault and only Santa knows where its at. Also, Steve Jackson has no clue on how to design games.

thevirus wrote:

MasterSlowPoke wrote:Thevirus, why should anyone care about a homemade document?

Yes you are right. Sorry all games and their supplements are made in a top secret vault and only Santa knows where its at. Also, Steve Jackson has no clue on how to design games.

This thread is for posting rumors about actual games workshop material. What you posted appears to just be fanmade content. There are a dozen fan codexes down in the forum for that.

Unless I'm wrong and that really is a leaked playtest codex or something, but it really didn't give me that impression.

its a fan document, thevirus just thinks its legit stuff...

thevirus wrote:

MasterSlowPoke wrote:Thevirus, why should anyone care about a homemade document?

Yes you are right. Sorry all games and their supplements are made in a top secret vault and only Santa knows where its at. Also, Steve Jackson has no clue on how to design games.

If you're under the impression that the person who made those documents is in any way connected to the GW design studio, you're going to be disappointed. And I have no idea why you brought up Steve Jackson?

I dont really see how that recut is supposed to work, the only thing that isnt in plastic for the current codex suits are the experimental weapons from the commander kit and the broadside weapons, all which arent really options for the normal xv8's (as the you can only take 1 of each experimental weapon per list, unless this is getting changed). But then again, most of the experimental weapons arent that good though.

MoD_Legion wrote:I dont really see how that recut is supposed to work, the only thing that isnt in plastic for the current codex suits are the experimental weapons from the commander kit and the broadside weapons, all which arent really options for the normal xv8's (as the you can only take 1 of each experimental weapon per list, unless this is getting changed). But then again, most of the experimental weapons arent that good though.

Also keep in mind that the experimental weapon system is likely to change as 1+ and 0-1 distinctions on units/wargear is largely a thing of the past.

also rumors say current spec issue are going mainstream and new spec issue is coming in

Also, in regards to the morphic weapons, I recalled earlier today a rumor I read years and years ago, IIRC supposedly it came out of a convo at a GD with one of the designers, but basically it was a discussion about how the design team had designed a bunch of additional special issue weapons that were cut from final print because they were designed to target specific enemies. A given example was a flamer template weapon that wounded nids on a rerollable 2+ no saves but on everyone else it was s2ap- or something like that. The rumor was that the design team felt that these weapons should be included in a future iteration of the codex to represent the Tau's ability to adapt to specific threats, but as a single catch-all system that had a different profile, etc. depending on the opponents army. Maybe this is what the morphic weaps refers to?

I can see why they'd recut the sprue, the curent dated sprue does not allow you to field any of the twin linked/ dual weapon load outs which are pretty standard for Tau.

That means you have to augment parts from other suits or buy from bits sellers. In a way it'd be like GW selling standard terminator squads without enough stormbolters to equip the full unit.

I'd really like to see an updated FW styled suit done in plastic as the old design is so dated and is very non-dynamic. The legs are totally straight and hang down like somebody shoved a flag pole up it's backside, there's not even a lower torso that can rotate. The arms are fixed at 90 degrees so there's practically no range of motion. Basic infantry from almost every faction are far more poseable than the current crisis suit.

I like robots which is why I always liked Tau, but the old suit has to go it's just too static and blocky. They can keep the overall design so it matches the codex art, but maybe a slight revamp in detail and it desperately needs to be made more articulated. (along with the proper assortment of weapons)


Oh and in regard to the gundam subject, yes they have some simular design elements cheifly in the torso construction. I have swaped out the torso of several crisis suits with several 1/200 scale gundam kits. After the modification they look much closer to the Crillio concept art. Gundam has some samurai elements which show up slightly in the armor panel lines, but when you look at the core of the torso you can see where Tau designs drew some heavy influence from.

Besides when has GW EVER made a model that isn't "borrowing" design elements from another popular setting?








The Tau XV-8 suit has almost all the same lines as the upper torso on the Gundam-78, but it's nowhere near as pretty....

There is a rumor going around that GW released the Tau in an attempt to attract Japanese customers to their products overseas. Whether this is true or not is beyond me.

Just wondering what people think the safe options to buy are?

I'm looking at starting tau in a few weeks once I get my wolves painted and dont want to buy something thats going to be useless.

Anyone heard any rumours about fire warriors being replaced?

No.

What I would say is that you will not save money by waiting. Any release of new models is likely to be a reason for putting the prices up.

The only reasons not to buy major units now (by which I mean Fire Warriors, Suits and Vehicles) are if you particularly dislike the current kits or hope for much nicer kits in the future.

FW, Kroot and vehicles will most likely stay, at least that's where the rumours are going atm.

I bought an extra battleforce last week (even though I easily have a years worth of stuff yet to build ), EU prices are redicilous as it is, 30 euro for either kroot, FW, or a devilfish, 95 for the b-force, but the b-force contains an extra stealthsuit team and crisis suit. Now I ordered it from a UK reseller at 40-something pound, for a grand total of 55 euro. Even if they make a few new kits of half the stuff in the b-force (which is not likely, them already being plastic and all), you still get more then your moneys worth from the rest. Besides the crisis suits all plastic tau models are fine as they are now anyways.

How about heavy weapons in FW squads? I will still not take alot of FW if only their BS increase.

FW are unlikely to get special/heavy weapon options, and even more unlikely to get a BS increase...

I think with Ethereal they should get an increase in their BS but as for heavy weapon the suits squads will still out number the FW squads then.

New sprue without a model change to the current crisis suits would severely irritate me to no end. I've grown to dislike the current design of the suit more and more over the years. And being forced to buy the same old gakky model for new weapons would make me cry.

As for FW, there needs to be a way to buff there somehow. Without heavy weapon options (or any options for that matter) they continue to be a pretty useless unit in my opinion. I will happily take any new FW options, heavy or not, as long as it makes them more than a free killpoint I have to take to satisfy the deployment rules. For me I hate objective control games because the Tau really lack troop choices to do so. So I would really like an incentive to bring more FW. Right now my army typically contains three times the kroot broken up into smaller squads for objective control and harassment.

**Derp Spelling

I think they are going to give the Firewarriors the right tools they need to be a useful unit, whether it be a significant points drop, a change to the rapid fire mechanic to make them more lethal, or the edition of some sort of defensive countermeasure system.

Would it necessarily be out of character for the FW squads to get an option for special weapons? Not heavies, of course.

I think it would be. Its one of the elements that makes the army unique. The only other army with a non-upgradeable basic troop choice is the Necrons.

From the fluff perspective, Firewarriors are supposed to be elite riflemen, comparable to grenadiers, and the pulse-rifle is supposed to be the ultimate infantry weapon putting out firepower capable of felling the toughest opponent and even light vehicles. The heavy support/special weapons are supposed to be provided by drones/suits and other elements of the army.

Fair enough. You're right, pulse rifles practically ARE special weapons already.

Really what made me ask that question was a FW I had converted back when I had Tau that was shooting a tripod mounted PR. Pretty sweet conversion, if I say so myself... but I guess you're right, somewhat out of character.

Has this pic from awhile ago been posted?

I don't think so. Is it serposed to be a dermirig head scaled up or something?

I believe it's an alleged Demiurg head.

chaos0xomega wrote:I think it would be. Its one of the elements that makes the army unique. The only other army with a non-upgradeable basic troop choice is the Necrons.

Actually, Necron troops are indeed upgradable. The upgrade is hidden in the Overlord retinue, that can be split among the units, maximum one per unit per retinue. So Crypteks are the hidden heavy weapon upgrade for Necron Warrior units.

Maybe the sniper unit could be added to a FW squad. depolyable seperately or together and it wouldn't compete with heavy or elites. Jut speculation I know, just seems to make sense.

I dunno, if I see the sniper suit as being an upgrade to an existing unit then I think it would make more sense for them to be attached to stealth suits.

But, since we don't really know the details of a "sniper suit" we can't really know what their purpose will be....

IMO, Tau special/heavy weapons should be as a "platoon" type thing. I.E. You can purchase a unit of firewarriors and then a special weapon team consisting of three firewarriors with rail rifles. They deploy and operate independently. It fits with the Taus doctrine of tactical flexibility while maintaining the Firewarriors focus on being riflemen first and foremost.

chaos0xmega - isn't that what the Sniper Drone Team basically is?

Kroothawk wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:I think it would be. Its one of the elements that makes the army unique. The only other army with a non-upgradeable basic troop choice is the Necrons.

Actually, Necron troops are indeed upgradable. The upgrade is hidden in the Overlord retinue, that can be split among the units, maximum one per unit per retinue. So Crypteks are the hidden heavy weapon upgrade for Necron Warrior units.

Very good point KH.

And this is EXACTLY how I would love to see it done with Tau - in upgrade drones.

Sniper drone, flamer drone, EMP Launcher drone, Deep strike drone, etc.

Here is a question - any chance we might get ANY of the FW units? I herd there is some rumored "FW and GW don't mix" policy, which from both the perspective of a business guy AND a customer, I think is insanity. I would love to have ralai (with a point reduction) in a tau dex.

Many items in the 4th Edition Tau Codex first appeared in Forge World's Imperial Armour Three.

I think there is a lot of cool stuff on the FW side for Tau, but the only things I am especially interested are Hazard Suits and Tetras.

I think that "policy" is a load of bullcrap. The IG book is like 1/2 Forgeworld units now, the nids book got the Trygon, The Dark Eldar whateverwing fighter is basically a modified nightwing... The only example I can think of of an existing FW unit being replaced by something entirely new in a rulebook is Ogre Kingdom Rhinox Riders being replaced by Mournfangs... but they have slightly different rules (Rhinox Riders = way better) and the stated reason for that was that "Rhinoxen are beasts of burden, not cavalry mounts" which I think is total bs but whatever.

As for Sniper Drone Teams, yes, that is sort of what they are, but who the hell would waste a heavy support slot on them? They should be part of a troops choice IMO.

or an upgrade for a pathfinder team

Sniper drone team as an upgrade for FW would be ace. Maybe even with variations in ammo types. Great idea btw.

what i would like to see is a transport that is equiped with alot of fire points or is open topped so that the fire warriors can shoot out but still have the added mobility to avoid close combat and the extra protection of armoured hulls. The biggest downside of the devilfish (besides the ridiculous point cost) is the lack of firepoints.

I agree with dlust1 on this one. I think there is a rumer about two? new transports. a "kroot dropship" and something else, but they're old so I can't be certain. I could see an opentopped transport, but how would it work? i can't see tau using a kind of moving fort techneque or anything like that.

dlust1 wrote:what i would like to see is a transport that is equiped with alot of fire points or is open topped so that the fire warriors can shoot out but still have the added mobility to avoid close combat and the extra protection of armoured hulls. The biggest downside of the devilfish (besides the ridiculous point cost) is the lack of firepoints.

Basically a FoF without the need to do any work. For a long time now I have been wanting an open top transport in the Tau army that could be fired out of. I honestly picture advanced armies doing this kind of thing and not allowing themselves to get in harms away. Even more so in this games love for melee. Tau knowing they would die would totally do something like this. I would do this now even with current FW stats. I mean just take your devilfish and have your friend pretend its open top for a match or two and be amazed at the damage out put it can do. Then cry as you remember everything in creation now has power weapons and one manages to catch up to your vehicle.

The main problem of the Tau is the troop choices, thats common sense, something GW should do to improve this, and also, improve all the Tau army with a few changes is, Tau Sniper Drone = troop Choice, or a new upgrade for FW wich team composition of FW should have been reduced to 8 and 4 slots for upgraded characters as the a new Sniper Team, with a Tau Controller in Sniper suit for better control of Drones and better movility (This i think, will be freaking osom) with this, an actually useless choice, would get more popularity and get some practical use.

With this new way to assemble FW, a Tau Commander would have more options of choice, also being able to get 2 Defensive Suits, counting 1 as 2 Special unit slot, with special capabilitys similar to Defensive Drone, with no Firepower, but bulky and effective against Melee, making a FW team less weak and not a free kill pint, ofc this units will be Guardians, and give cover like a normal Rhino. There are so many possibilities with this easy arrangement... Its a same, its never gonna happen.

Also, i would made XV15/25 Troop Choices, and reduce it points cost, wich is way too high for what you get, from 30 to 20-15, make of them a scoring unit, similar to Dawn of War: Dark Crusade.

Pathfinders should have a new ability to be able to target different units, 5 Markerlights (I assume everyone uses the lil`Railgun guys) just for 1 unit per turn, when the max BS is 5 its kinda... Useless, even if you can also debuff their cover and Leadership.

This is everything i think should be a major priority, to make of the Tau army, a more competitive one, and become able to have way more choices for everyone. This way, Demiurgs as Elite Choices, wouldnt make of Shadow suits an even worst option, it will improve place for more Fast Attack units (Improvement of the Piranha?), Heavy Supp (I really dont know WHY is the sniper drone a heavy choice).

Sorry if i made many mistakes with the writting >-< Imma doin my besta to improf it

ghost21 wrote:

MajorWesJanson wrote:The main doubt I have about rail rifles on XV-25 stealth suits is that they already have a full plastic kit, so would need to make a finecast suit with that option, or not have a model for it. I think it is just a conversion.

Three drones is odd, but that doesn't look like a railrifle drone. Maybe a shield drone? It also looks like a mod. It doesn't use the drone body, but the burst cannon top from a hammerhead.

I'm still thinking from a buisness point of view, the best idea for a redone Crisis suit set is a box of three, with parts to upgrade one into a commander, one into a broadside, and one into something else. Probably a lot of parts on it, like special issue wargear and weapons, plastic shield drones.

N that is exactly how I saw it folks

1 last thing a date ?? Maybe feb/march this could be swappEd with by though

all reffering to this link: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=19700007a&_requestid=3085862

thought this might be interesting ; )
(the "by" was probably ment to be a "bt")

chaos0xomega wrote:I think it would be. Its one of the elements that makes the army unique. The only other army with a non-upgradeable basic troop choice is the Necrons.

From the fluff perspective, Firewarriors are supposed to be elite riflemen, comparable to grenadiers, and the pulse-rifle is supposed to be the ultimate infantry weapon putting out firepower capable of felling the toughest opponent and even light vehicles. The heavy support/special weapons are supposed to be provided by drones/suits and other elements of the army.

Tyranids and daemons as well, though it's unit dependant. I like the fluff of the purpose driven firewarrior squads. Their mixed arms come in the form of supplementary units, and I like that. It gives them a unique profile and set of tactics. Once they get mixed heavy weapons they come that much closer to guard with hovertanks. Which is lame.

ShumaGorath wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:I think it would be. Its one of the elements that makes the army unique. The only other army with a non-upgradeable basic troop choice is the Necrons.

From the fluff perspective, Firewarriors are supposed to be elite riflemen, comparable to grenadiers, and the pulse-rifle is supposed to be the ultimate infantry weapon putting out firepower capable of felling the toughest opponent and even light vehicles. The heavy support/special weapons are supposed to be provided by drones/suits and other elements of the army.

Tyranids and daemons as well, though it's unit dependant. I like the fluff of the purpose driven firewarrior squads. Their mixed arms come in the form of supplementary units, and I like that. It gives them a unique profile and set of tactics. Once they get mixed heavy weapons they come that much closer to guard with hovertanks. Which is lame.

I as well have a deep love for useless wastes of points that I'm forced to take to please the 40k rulebook. The fluff also says they adapt and change for the situation, not just sit on the same load out all the time. It's even written in the Tau Codex that Firewarriors adapted to certain situations by using Kroot Rifles over their pulse Rifles.

I'm sorry it's really hard to argue having a non-changing, non-adaptable troop choice when the race as a whole is written as the leading race of technological change and evolution makes any sense. I would say it's more against the fluff to not have Firewarriors fielding different weaponry to adapt to the situation at hand. Even if it has to come with drones, it needs to be done or at least remove the unit as a required for the FoC.

But the Firewarriors are changign and adapting. The same guys who form line infantry can be expected to crew vehicles and work as Pathfinders. After their first Trial by Fire they can be a squad leader or battlesuit pilot as the system requires.

The game just doesn't show that really well.

To be honest, i think the Tau would really benefit from a codex that looks a lot like the current Space Wolves codex. Make the Shas'la the equivalent of the Blood Claw (though obviously shooty as opposed to assaulty), available in large numbers and less disciplined and well trained than their betters.

Make the Shas'ui like the Grey Hunters, Scouts and Long Fangs. Better trained, better equipped than the Shas'la, depending on the slot you purchase them in they will either be line infantry, pathfinders, crisis suit teams, stealth suit teams or broadside suit teams.

Make the Shas'vre like the Wolf Guard, a specialist Elite unit that can either function as a unified group of battle suits or split off some of it's number to lead other formations. Give them access to the better gear and the flexibility to put on any of the battlesuits necessary to join the lesser units. Also they would have access to exclusive suits like the Hazard suit.

The Shas'el then becomes the equivalent of a Wolf Guard Battle Leader, a sort of super Shas'vre able to take special items and able to be equipped to fit in with any of the lesser units.

The Shas'o then becomes the Wolf Lord and is to the Shas'el what the Shas'el is to the Shas'ui.

Heck, i could even see a Lone Wolf equivalent, the last remaining survivors of bonded units who now seek solace in the arms of death, but wish to serve the greater good one final time before they die.

Ethereals can become the rough equivalent to a Wolf Priest - a CC and Ld buffing unit. Perhaps Air Caste forward observers to act as a Rune Priest equivalent, calling in air strikes and orbital bombardments of various types. Earth Caste as an Iron Priest equivalent, maintaining the vehicles in the field and leading a unit of drones . . .


Yes they wouldn't do it int he same way, but the basic structure is there and fits very well i think.

Can we please start dating all these rumor threads so peoplec an tell when they are actually updated?

chaos0xomega wrote:
Psh pound sterling? Please, I'm an American, I use a real currency ;P

so your not a fan of stable currency then troll mode off...

Still if the new TAU EMPIRE codex can not out shoot a space marine codex I might have to sell my TAU EMPIRE army.

thevirus wrote:Still if the new TAU EMPIRE codex can not out shoot a space marine codex I might have to sell my TAU EMPIRE army.

they can allready, if the terrain is rignt. but on a plain field your screwed

tarnish wrote:

thevirus wrote:Still if the new TAU EMPIRE codex can not out shoot a space marine codex I might have to sell my TAU EMPIRE army.

they can allready, if the terrain is rignt. but on a plain field your screwed

"They can now under very strict and limited situations including the Space Marine player having huffed paint while writing up his army list."

I fixed it for you.

But in all seriousness the Tau as they stand now have the second worst average ballistic score (at least this is what I have read on multiple occasions on Tau Tactica and the like), only being better than the Orks. Now for a "shooty" army this is just stupid. Cool we have some hard hitting stuff and other fancies, but the reduced chance to hit on average kinda kills it. On top of GW handing out FNP like candy for all current codices, reducing the chance to wound by another 50%, only makes the problem worse. I want an overall ballistic score increase, and I don't mind if that comes at the cost of equipment to do so. Like FW or other infantry taking a drone with a Targeting Array to increase the squads BS by 1. Then again if the Ethereal granting Honor Guards and Preferred enemy for all FW rings true then this would not be needed as much, but could still good idea (imo) for players who don't wish to bring a Ethereal.

In fact the idea of putting crisis suit hard point upgrades into infantry units as drones is not a bad idea once I think about it more. Maybe something like Shield generator drones: Grants 6+ invuln save for entire squad, can purchase a second Shield Gen. Drone for maximum of a 5+ invuln save. This idea coming mainly from DoW game were FW squads could actually do this and provided a shielding field for each FW.


*Edit 1&2: Fix spelling and add more bad ideas to post.

Dantalian wrote:

tarnish wrote:

thevirus wrote:Still if the new TAU EMPIRE codex can not out shoot a space marine codex I might have to sell my TAU EMPIRE army.

they can allready, if the terrain is rignt. but on a plain field your screwed

"They can now under very strict and limited situations including the Space Marine player having huffed paint while writing up his army list."

I fixed it for you.

But in all seriousness the Tau as they stand now have the second worst average ballistic score (at least this is what I have read on multiple occasions on Tau Tactica and the like), only being better than the Orks. Now for a "shooty" army this is just stupid. Cool we have some hard hitting stuff and other fancies, but the reduced chance to hit on average kinda kills it. On top of GW handing out FNP like candy for all current codices, reducing the chance to wound by another 50%, only makes the problem worse. I want an overall ballistic score increase, and I don't mind if that comes at the cost of equipment to do so. Like FW or other infantry taking a drone with a Targeting Array to increase the squads BS by 1. Then again if the Ethereal granting Honor Guards and Preferred enemy for all FW rings true then this would not be needed as much, but could still good idea (imo) for players who don't wish to bring a Ethereal.

In fact the idea of putting crisis suit hard point upgrades into infantry units as drones is not a bad idea once I think about it more. Maybe something like Shield generator drones: Grants 6+ invuln save for entire squad, can purchase a second Shield Gen. Drone for maximum of a 5+ invuln save. This idea coming mainly from DoW game were FW squads could actually do this and provided a shielding field for each FW.


*Edit 1&2: Fix spelling and add more bad ideas to post.

I see what you did there.

I played DoW recently, and i have made up my mind with the though that GW will most probably take a lot of ideas from the game, and most probably include Barracudes in the next Codex, since it already appeared on Soulstorm (i would bought like 3 of them if it was real). But being more serious about it, when i saw the Tau Commander on DoW2 Last Stand, and realized that they got more armour the legs, and different bodys and heads than the ones that comes on the plastic kit, and ALSO the Shas`O`Rmyr shield, i would love that they keep up this idea, and make it real for the plastic or resin kits for the next codex, a newly designed Shield generators for the Crisis suits, and a real awesome Shield Generator for Tau Commander on Crisis.

The idea with Drones that can equip some wargear is awesome, it really make some sense there.

Also, if they really come up with the idea of Etherals granting Honour Guard for FW, i hope that they also make a new Ethereal model, with some light armor on top of their Ethreal classic clothes, to be less Priest, and more Monk (the D&D Monk) like, wich is the stile i really thing will fit for them, since i saw the Aun`Shi model and Background.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/TAU-BARRACUDA.html

Still wanna buy 3 of them? lol

Want =/= capable of

Sidstyler wrote:http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/TAU-BARRACUDA.html

Still wanna buy 3 of them? lol

I know its expensive, but that doesnt changes my mind hahaha same goes for the Manta, i want one but... Money is Relentless

Just for completeness, BOLS posted this today (Bigred's comments in Italics):

40K RUMORS: Tau Upgrades
Posted by Bigred at Thursday, December 29, 2011

So, here's the latest word on the rumored upcoming Codex: Tau Empire

They say the Tau are ever expanding their empire with not only new member races, but steadily updating and improving their equipment. Lets get to it:

-Demiurg Units ~plural
-New Vespid unit and a new weapon for the wasp-men.
-New FireWarrior heavy weapons - expect new anti-tank / anti- infantry heavy weapon choices on a 1 special per X ratio (probably 1 per 5 or 10 fire Warriors)
-Plastic Barricuda (or other renamed fighter)
-Possible Human allies (Rogue IG militia that joined the Tau Empire) ~said to be the iffy-est of these rumors.
-New Kroot HQ choice (with the ability to "unlock a Kroot themed army) ~sounds like an homage to the old Kroot Mercs list.
-Kroot Carnivores upgraded to either a 5+ or a 6+ save by default.

i like these new rumours, but im still hoping for an open topped/multi fire point vehicle that is fast. allowing you to lay down some fire and run away before you get wiped in an assault. the low leadership/inititive/weapon skill combo mean your losing 99% or close combats and then getting overrun and wiped out. or taking 25% casualties and running off the board. hopefully the demiurg have some descent close combat/survivability allowing you to not get overrun in the first 2 turns, so you can shoot the hell outta the other guy for a while. plus i would love to see a drop in the cost and a move from heavy to assault for the marker lights.

There have beenn some rumours posted on the german gw-fanworld forum. Since they have been utter rubbish and the person claiming to be an insider "came under NDA" when forced to spill his guts rendered them unprintable.

What I have heard so far, also comparing similar threads over the forums is this:

-Release begin or end of 2012.

-New Kroot HQ

-Barracuda plastic kit

-Changes to Markerlights and Railgun (HH only)

-new Super Heavy tank

-FW HH turrets normal issue

-Firewarriors and Pathfinders same kit (upgrade sprue)

-changes to Pulse rifle (?)

-new race Demiurg with several Units

-changes to Vespid Neutron Blaster (18' ?)

-XV8 resculpt and streamlined (2 weapons, 1 system) and come in 3 a pack

-XV88 upgrade sprue for XV8 kit

-XV9 kit (??) or upgrade for Commander

-new Chars Ra'lai, Rym and Aun' Shi

-Ethereals caan take Envoys (think Master of Fleet etc)



Imho the new dex could be quite easily done. The envoy option could be good depending on how it deals with MEQ and DS units. Those are the Taus' problemes. Not enough DS2/DS1 firepower, not enough templates.

Remedied with a good version of Pulse Submunition rifle (S6 DS3) and BS4+ for all units.

I said it, barracuda for plastic kit it may be some other kind of fighter, but i hope its similar on his weaponry.

The FW getting heavy weapons is something i already expected, and something really natural that should have happened already with some WD update and new plastic kits or upgrades.

Vespid getting better are good news, i like the model and abilitys, but they are not viable since Crisis suits are way better, less expensive and more durable. If they upgrade their stats, and introduce the new Vespid Heavy unit they will be a new real choice to get and have fun playing with.

¿Gue`Vessa becoming part of the codex? Ppl normally use them as just normal FW with different models... IDK what to say about it : /

Kroot HQ? dont care, i like kroots, but i dont want to pick a Kroot HQ to get some unit that i need, or just want for my army, sounds stupid to me, when no other army has it, it will make of Tau an unique army yes, but, in the bad way.

The improvement of the armour save will be nice, since they are an assault force, and something to hold up enemys, the less thing you can expect from them, is to be able to hold back on CC with some armour, even if its light, its better than nothing, for some more time, and having real choices to win against their enemys ¿Maybe they get more upgrades as psychics? I read that on some old post around here, it will be fun, and will get us to see some new Kroot with a different model being more mysticand so.

Damn it!!! I am going to have to get a second job with both of my armies getting a codex this year.


DAMN YOU GW!!!!

So the overall corroborated rumors are:

New HQs:
Demiurg
Kroot
Forge world characters
Demiurg Special Character

New Units:
Some kind of fighter
XV-9s moving over
New kroot unit
New Demiurg unit
New Vespid unit

Kit News:
Plastic fighter kit
Completely re-done XV-8s
Pathfinders and Firewarriors becoming one kit.

Rules:
XV-8s becoming troops
Some kind of change to the Hammerhead rules
Etherals getting changed to suck less

That's what I'm seeing that's being corroborated across multiple sources.

Really hoping for that Kroot HQ so I can legally field a small, all Kroot "fun" army (yes, I know they'll die horribly every time)!

TheSovereign wrote:
Really hoping for that Kroot HQ so I can legally field a small, all Kroot "fun" army (yes, I know they'll die horribly every time)!

Unless the rumor of them getting 5+ as a standard is true, then they may stand a little better of a chance. THough I would never field an all kroot army myself, I do enjoy using them in my army as a meatshield/dedicated assault depending on the situation.

I like that the barracuda is coming over to the army, and I assume the second "fighter" may be the remora. Though I don't have similar love for the remora since its point cost to uts usefullness seems out of proportion of proportion to me.

I'm intrested to see how they change markerlights (if at all), hopefully making ALL markerlights networked so FW Squads can basically get a 50% chance to increase their own BS by 1 at the shooting phase. But this rumor that XV8's becoming troops is a little weird to me. And added the claim crisis suits will now come in packs of three (though I wouldn't mind this). But I would be more easily convinced that the broadside kit will be mixed into the crisis suit sprues since it really is just a 3 piece difference. But if this turns out to be true, I wonder how much a box of 3 suits would cost D:

I remember early there was mention of a new "heavy xeno." Some people mentioned that this was going to be a "queen" type Vespid. Could it instead be the greater knarloc coming over to plastic? It's an existing unit, will fill the role of a tau mc, and is owned by 40k(apocalypse).

I'm also wondering about the Great Knarloc, especially given it's appearances in DoW.

Harry is in debunking mood, given all the vague and inaccurate rumours floating around.
Please keep the discussion on non-Tau to the following thread. where I will copy this as well:

Harry wrote:Fellas ... needless to say, given the amount of contradiction ... much of the first post is inaccurate. Some of that stuff was written before they started writing the book.
No one has got all the kits right yet.
I don't think they will be as soon as most folks seem to think given the amount of stuff that seems to be before them.
(...)
I have heard about more stuff for IG, Necrons, Tyranids .....

I think (for what its worth) that there is stuff coming for at least 5 other armies before we see the Tau stuff. (unless they release something in advance of the main release?)

But as you know I don't follow 40K that closely so I could be completely wrong.

I trust that means a wave, with units not available yet? Otherwise, I predict much nerdRAGE - the Imperial Guard already got an update.

Yes, waves for a number of armies coming.

When you say 5 other armies do you mean 5 other gw armies or 5 other 40k armies? Because the latter surely puts tau into, as a minimum, 2013, and makes me a very sad panda

I mean 5 other 40K armies but I am not talking about full army releases just more stuff.
I heard Tau were good to go 2012 but I don't know exactly where they fit in the schedule.

And since 40K has gotten Harry's attention (a rare event!) I might as well ask: any love coming soonish for the pointy-ears? Pretty please?

Yes. I have heard about some stuff coming for Eldar.

ghost21 wrote:Remember Harry gets info of stuff much later in the process than I do. He could be right (I'm still annoyed about sisters of battle who will now sit done for at least 18 months if not longer)

There's BT, IG, and I think tyranid stuff done, and SW, if they plan on releasing no armies for 40k until 6th ed i can see it unfortunately
(...)
Oh, I forgot SOB but honestly 2013/14 now

Kroothawk wrote:Harry is in debunking mood, given all the vague and inaccurate rumours floating around.
Please keep the discussion on non-Tau to the following thread. where I will copy this as well:

Harry wrote:Fellas ... needless to say, given the amount of contradiction ... much of the first post is inaccurate. Some of that stuff was written before they started writing the book.
No one has got all the kits right yet.
I don't think they will be as soon as most folks seem to think given the amount of stuff that seems to be before them.
(...)
I have heard about more stuff for IG, Necrons, Tyranids .....

I think (for what its worth) that there is stuff coming for at least 5 other armies before we see the Tau stuff. (unless they release something in advance of the main release?)

But as you know I don't follow 40K that closely so I could be completely wrong.

I trust that means a wave, with units not available yet? Otherwise, I predict much nerdRAGE - the Imperial Guard already got an update.

Yes, waves for a number of armies coming.

When you say 5 other armies do you mean 5 other gw armies or 5 other 40k armies? Because the latter surely puts tau into, as a minimum, 2013, and makes me a very sad panda

I mean 5 other 40K armies but I am not talking about full army releases just more stuff.
I heard Tau were good to go 2012 but I don't know exactly where they fit in the schedule.

And since 40K has gotten Harry's attention (a rare event!) I might as well ask: any love coming soonish for the pointy-ears? Pretty please?

Yes. I have heard about some stuff coming for Eldar.

ghost21 wrote:Remember Harry gets info of stuff much later in the process than I do. He could be right (I'm still annoyed about sisters of battle who will now sit done for at least 18 months if not longer)

There's BT, IG, and I think tyranid stuff done, and SW, if they plan on releasing no armies for 40k until 6th ed i can see it unfortunately
(...)
Oh, I forgot SOB but honestly 2013/14 now

Why does it seem like with every rumor that comes out or gets clarified that the Tau release date seems to get pushed further and further back? Like I stopped playing about two years ago now until they released a new codex, and I am growing tired of waiting as Tau seem to keep being placed on the backburner. And just to get clarification, "Oh, I forgot SOB but honestly 2013/14 now," is he saying that the Tau codex will most likely be 2013/2014 or sisters of battle?
Also when he reffers to the "first post", is he referring to the first post of this thread? If that's true then what do we really know besides there will be Demiurg and another race?

1.) Most rumours are by ghost2. He claims to get info from early production stages that can change. With SOB, he was obviously wrong by 2 or so years.
2.) Harry always claimed that Tau are not that close as most think, but he cautiously estimates their release in 2012 anyway.
3.) The "first post" is obviously the first post of the Warseer thread, but this thread includes the info of it.
4.) Yes, we have almost no reliable information at the moment, that's why I was reluctant to start a thread on that topic.

Anyway, some more tidbits by Harry (full quotes in release schedule thread):

I can confirm there is stuff done for BT, IG, Nids and SW and have also heard about stuff for Sisters of Battle, DA, Chaos, Eldar, Dark Eldar and Tau. (so that is just about all of them isn't it?) What is less clear is when they plan to release it all.
(...)
Originally I did have Tau down for the first half of the year based one when I first heard about them (Well over a year ago now) but it always had a ? against it as I had not heard anything concrete since and then I got the impression at GD there was still some work to do on the models .... so given lead times March/April was doable but the earliest possible date and never seemed very likely.

All I have to go on is the order I hear about things ... I never get a schedule or hear release dates.

So going back quite a way the order I heard about things was:
Tyranids, Blood Angels, Grey Knights, Sisters of Battle, Necrons, More Nids, Black Templar, Tau, Chaos, More Eldar, More Space Wolves, More Dark Angels.
(...)
So whilst it is unlikely the order will be exactly the same and it is unclear which will be full army releases and which just more models .... (although you can take a pretty good guess) This is kind of the order I expect to see some stuff for these armies.

I had Tau and BT down before Chaos because I heard about models for them before I heard about anything for Chaos BUT just because a project starts before does not mean it will automatically finish before.

I just talked to our local, independent games store owner. He *claimed* that his GW contact *claimed* that Tau was being discontinued.

This is obviously not correct as the the studio has been working on Tau for over 18 months.

I am sure Tau are coming in next year ... just think they are a good bit later than Q1/2 as seems to be widely thought.

Again ... I could be completely wrong about this.

from what i heard for tau they were meant to come out in march 2012 has that changed ?

I almost kinda hope they're not...that means they're going to come in right before a new edition, so the codex will be outdated almost immediately, and Tau will have to suffer through another whole edition being bottom-tier.

And I don't really buy that stuff about GW designing armies that come out before the edition, for that new edition, since they said the same thing about Daemons and they're probably the worst army in the game.

but arent all new codex that are coming out now based upon 6th ed rules

such as why do necron destroyers have preferred enemy

I'm just glad that the Dark Eldar will be getting some new volunteers as part of the cultural exchange. Urien Rakarth will be very pleased.

What in the deuce do GK even have to get released yet? Isn't everything in the codex out? Maybe a SC or two? It seems silly to release new stuff for new armies before updating armies in desperate need. Or, yknow, Tyranid 2nd wave.

Looking forward to Tau, not looking forward to Tau being FotM. With luck they will continue to be balanced around higher skill level (without needing perfection and lucky dice to succeed).

decoy101 wrote:but arent all new codex that are coming out now based upon 6th ed rules

such as why do necron destroyers have preferred enemy

I honestly still don't buy it myself. There has to be certain rules new to 6th they have to avoid in order to keep them secret. I don't care if Tau gets released at the end of the year so long as it's post 6th edition release.

Dantalian wrote:

decoy101 wrote:but arent all new codex that are coming out now based upon 6th ed rules

such as why do necron destroyers have preferred enemy

I honestly still don't buy it myself. There has to be certain rules new to 6th they have to avoid in order to keep them secret. I don't care if Tau gets released at the end of the year so long as it's post 6th edition release.

Which they could still add in an FAQ after the release, were GW inclined to be so forward thinking.

Nagashek wrote:

Dantalian wrote:

decoy101 wrote:but arent all new codex that are coming out now based upon 6th ed rules

such as why do necron destroyers have preferred enemy

I honestly still don't buy it myself. There has to be certain rules new to 6th they have to avoid in order to keep them secret. I don't care if Tau gets released at the end of the year so long as it's post 6th edition release.

Which they could still add in an FAQ after the release, were GW inclined to be so forward thinking.

It only took GW over 2 years to answer question that came up with the release of 5th rules that couldn't be answered with rules as written. I have absolutely no faith in GW anymore when it comes to codex maintenance. Like I'm fairly certain is Tau were to go into 6th without a codex release, they wouldn't have a FAQ for a considerable amount of time.

Then again I am being negative, but I am just drawing from GWs past performances.

Guess I'll be making terrain for the foreseeable future >_>

Huh. Well, time will tell I suppose.

Been thinking, and this is just speculation, but what if they 'buffed' Firewarriors by basically making every Firewarrior a Pathfinder? That is, all Pulse rifles also had markerlights.

That would fit in with the 'high tech' 'Ghost Recon-y' feel of the Firewarriors. Squads Bob and Larry are manuvering away from and advancing Spehss Marine attack. They post up, fire marker lights, bringing in the good Dakka from the Skyrays to pop the Metal Boxes. The Sphess Marines being Sphess Marines are undeterred, and advance shouting obscenities like Xbox Live kiddies. Knuckling up, Squad Bob fires marker lights buffing Squad Larry as Squad Larry uses something like First Rank Fire, Second Rank Fire to chop that meat up with concentrated pulse fire.

Or maybe they get an option to fire their grenade launchers in lieu of their normal shooting for an auto pin if so many "wounds" were taken, allowing safe passage. I mean, Tau were keeping head to head with Tyranids as far as adaptation goes (though theirs was technological) so maybe they have some kind of tear gas that would make even a space marine pause to cough up his guts for a few seconds-again, keeping in with the "special forces/high tech" appeal of Tau.

I still have a nasty feeling that it will probably be Black Templars next anyways. Oh well, back to Skyrim. Time to make a Shadow Scale.

There would be too many marker lights, and reduce the point of units such as the Marker drone and Sky Ray.

Nagashek wrote:What in the deuce do GK even have to get released yet?

This is an old list, so the Grey Knight release WAS the Codex release. Check the list and you see what Harry wanted to say: The earlier he heard about something, the sooner they got a release, with Dark Eldar being something special.

Dantalian wrote:It only took GW over 2 years to answer question that came up with the release of 5th rules that couldn't be answered with rules as written. I have absolutely no faith in GW anymore when it comes to codex maintenance. Like I'm fairly certain is Tau were to go into 6th without a codex release, they wouldn't have a FAQ for a considerable amount of time.

Then again I am being negative, but I am just drawing from GWs past performances.

Guess I'll be making terrain for the foreseeable future >_>

You're really not being negative. GW has spent many years forging and tempering their reputation as a consumer neglecting company. Our lack of faith in their ability to sustain non-SM armies is something they've worked very long and very hard to earn. Their unwavering disloyalty to us has inspired our disloyalty to them.

Never be ashamed of your growing disinterest.

On topic: I would love to see see Tau grow more numerous and deadly in their new fluff. The last codex painted them up to be a race that's lucky to be alive and probably won't be for much longer. The Damocles Crusade should have been a crushing defeat for the imperium, but they turned it into "well we could have wiped out the Tau, but we needed to be elsewhere in a hurry." Kinda like the fall of Damnos. I've always hoped to see Tau ingenuity allow them to technologically overpower their enemies if given enough time to research and develop counter measures... But I get the feeling such an army would upset SM players with hurtful feelings of not being the most badass, so GW will move in the opposite direction and make Tau even easier to wipe out, thereby accentuating the ever growing badassness of SMs.

Archonate wrote:

Dantalian wrote:It only took GW over 2 years to answer question that came up with the release of 5th rules that couldn't be answered with rules as written. I have absolutely no faith in GW anymore when it comes to codex maintenance. Like I'm fairly certain is Tau were to go into 6th without a codex release, they wouldn't have a FAQ for a considerable amount of time.

Then again I am being negative, but I am just drawing from GWs past performances.

Guess I'll be making terrain for the foreseeable future >_>

You're really not being negative. GW has spent many years forging and tempering their reputation as a consumer neglecting company. Our lack of faith in their ability to sustain non-SM armies is something they've worked very long and very hard to earn. Their unwavering disloyalty to us has inspired our disloyalty to them.

Never be ashamed of your growing disinterest.

On topic: I would love to see see Tau grow more numerous and deadly in their new fluff. The last codex painted them up to be a race that's lucky to be alive and probably won't be for much longer. The Damocles Crusade should have been a crushing defeat for the imperium, but they turned it into "well we could have wiped out the Tau, but we needed to be elsewhere in a hurry." Kinda like the fall of Damnos. I've always hoped to see Tau ingenuity allow them to technologically overpower their enemies if given enough time to research and develop counter measures... But I get the feeling such an army would upset SM players with hurtful feelings of not being the most badass, so GW will move in the opposite direction and make Tau even easier to wipe out, thereby accentuating the ever growing badassness of SMs.

If we go even further, we can say that GW just cares about the most popular SM armys, since BT are so left behind all his so called battle brothers and fellow chapters, and most specially the DA, the most badass SM army i have ever seen yet, with only the GK with their special halo of awesomness on top of them. It`s a real, dumbass policy, seeing how many armys they have on 40k and how awesome they are, the Eldar, the DE, Necrons, Tyranids, Tau... So much coolnes, and awesomnes that can be so much better, but, since SMQ are so popular, they dont get the love they deserve, and should have to outrank SM on top of popularity... Something hard, with mmm 5 SM armys or more running on top of every table i see.

Or because they don't want to release every Space Marine army at once, and GK, BA, and Space Wolves all needed updates before Templars.

Stop using logic, Brother SRM. It's totally irrelevant to the point that Space Marines get more love than everyone else(despite GK, BA, DA, and Space Wolves all having been passed over to create the Tau in the first place--and the Tau getting two books in the time it took them to get one).

KaiserEddie wrote:
If we go even further, we can say that GW just cares about the most popular SM armys, since BT are so left behind all his so called battle brothers and fellow chapters, and most specially the DA, the most badass SM army i have ever seen yet, with only the GK with their special halo of awesomness on top of them. It`s a real, dumbass policy, seeing how many armys they have on 40k and how awesome they are, the Eldar, the DE, Necrons, Tyranids, Tau... So much coolnes, and awesomnes that can be so much better, but, since SMQ are so popular, they dont get the love they deserve, and should have to outrank SM on top of popularity... Something hard, with mmm 5 SM armys or more running on top of every table i see.

Let me get this straight: You like xenos more than marines, so therefore xenos are more awesome and everyone who doesn't think so is wrong?

Go back to your bridge.

Kanluwen wrote:Stop using logic, Brother SRM. It's totally irrelevant to the point that Space Marines get more love than everyone else(despite GK, BA, DA, and Space Wolves all having been passed over to create the Tau in the first place--and the Tau getting two books in the time it took them to get one).

But logic's all I know!

New rumors from bells:

-Battlesuit Commander: shifts ONE battlesuit unit to a Troops FOC slot.
-New Close Combat Battlesuit
-New Ethereal named character
-Ethereals will get upgraded to be the "leader" role in the Tau Empire army. (so not the best BS, or WS, but other interesting army-support tricks)
-New deepstriking Dropship (an Orca-ish platform on par with the IG valkyrie)
-Up-gunned Drone variants (specific anti-tank and anti-heavy infantry options) which can be attached to almost every TAU unit in the codex

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/01/40k-rumors-tau-upgrades-part-2.html

Kanluwen wrote:Stop using logic, Brother SRM. It's totally irrelevant to the point that Space Marines get more love than everyone else(despite GK, BA, DA, and Space Wolves all having been passed over to create the Tau in the first place--and the Tau getting two books in the time it took them to get one).

Do you not see the irony? What you are really saying here is "How dare you complain about how long it took your non-SM army to be updated, when my SM army has only received 4 or 5 updated rules variations instead of the 8 or 9 that it should have gotten before your army!!!

You speak as though GK, BA, DA, SW, etc. were different armies or something. They are not. They are rules variations FOR THE SAME ARMY.

They most certainly are not Archonate. Some people might treat their Marine armies in a modular fashion, but saying that GK, BA, DA and SW are all variations on the same army is quite wrong.

H.B.M.C. wrote:They most certainly are not Archonate. Some people might treat their Marine armies in a modular fashion, but saying that GK, BA, DA and SW are all variations on the same army is quite wrong.

Yes, thank you, finally someone who understands.

Also, I'll leave this here: If someone who likes Black Templars stays with his or her Codex, he's stuck with an old Codex that struggles, just like the old Xenos Codices. If he or she moves on to a newer Marine Codex (likely having to buy quite a bit of models in the process, something people often ignore), it's "bandwagoning" and the player in question should be shunned forever. Damned if you do, damned if you don't...

Are you guys done? Can we get back to Tau rumors? Like possible cc suits as posted on Bells?

I hope they don't give us cc suits, just tougher suits with fun rules to evade or exit cc (like the XV9s). Cc suits would feel like a cop out to me, like GW throwing us a bone and admitting that an army can't survive without dedicated cc squads.

Anyways, that's what Kroot are for! How about some Knarloc units for dedicated cc?

Hmm up gunned drones. Sounds like using the heavy weapon drones from FW. Probably though with more options as they only have twin linked burst cannons currently

I'll agree that CC suits sounds silly unless its some type of special unit for Farsight or something

Drop ship eh? Well everyone else is getting one I suppose

Heavy gun drones being attached to squads seems to me like the best option for squad versatility, since you don't break the existing fluff of Fire Warriors only using pulse rifles/carbines, and you get an interesting platform to field weapons on. I don't like the idea of CC suits at all, but hopefully that's one that doesn't pan out. Kroot-based CC units like Gnarloc riders and stuff would be cool though.

A 'CC' suit could mean anything, though. It doesn't necessarily have to be a unit that's really good at fisticuffs, just something that has use in CC. Which the Tau do need. Having a unit like that doesn't make much sense if it's a suit like the current ones but then it also depends on what the suit actually does.

synchronicity wrote:New rumors from bells:

-Battlesuit Commander: shifts ONE battlesuit unit to a Troops FOC slot. --
-New Ethereal named character
-Ethereals will get upgraded to be the "leader" role in the Tau Empire army. (so not the best BS, or WS, but other interesting army-support tricks)
-New deepstriking Dropship (an Orca-ish platform on par with the IG valkyrie)
-Up-gunned Drone variants (specific anti-tank and anti-heavy infantry options) which can be attached to almost every TAU unit in the codex

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/01/40k-rumors-tau-upgrades-part-2.html

I like all of those except the Close Combat battlesuit. Perhaps it will be something with two heavy flamers and two burst cannons. But why not just put them on drones?

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

KaiserEddie wrote:
If we go even further, we can say that GW just cares about the most popular SM armys, since BT are so left behind all his so called battle brothers and fellow chapters, and most specially the DA, the most badass SM army i have ever seen yet, with only the GK with their special halo of awesomness on top of them. It`s a real, dumbass policy, seeing how many armys they have on 40k and how awesome they are, the Eldar, the DE, Necrons, Tyranids, Tau... So much coolnes, and awesomnes that can be so much better, but, since SMQ are so popular, they dont get the love they deserve, and should have to outrank SM on top of popularity... Something hard, with mmm 5 SM armys or more running on top of every table i see.

Let me get this straight: You like xenos more than marines, so therefore xenos are more awesome and everyone who doesn't think so is wrong?

Go back to your bridge.

Im sorry, but thats not the point, i actually think that the Xenos army are better looking than SM, thats true, but, the problem is that there are too many of the SM armys, and i dont think that the more SM armys the better... The SM armys should be all into 1 Codex, with all the units represented on it, released at the same time, the way you paint them, and use the upgrades on bikes and shoulders to make them into the chapter you want to play, this will make it way more easy to balance everything, and never leave armys like the SoB without a proper Codex, and the BT/DA still into 4 edition, since they`re armys that i want to play some day (Mainly becuse the Lore into this armys), then we have the Inquisition with the GK, the SoB, and IG, i love all of this ones becouse they are not a copy of the others with a lil changes in the looks, and weaponry.

The overflow of too many SM armys is bad, becouse it just bumps their numbers in a stupid way, as i see it, GW never made a Vior`La sept Codex to make the Farsight conclaves an army, and it still exits. The Tyranids, have their Hive Fleets, Kraken, Behemoth and so, they gather all kind of biomass from planets, producing a way of different units one from other, and ever adapting, and still, they are all the same army nto 1 Codex. The Orks... Well, you can do whatever yu want with yur WAAAAAAGH!! and its still cool without overwlowing the market with 6 armys of the same guys just becouse they dont look the same, and have different Primarchs, but still use the same equipment (Dread, Termis, bikes, LR, Rhinos, infantiry melee and ranged weaponry), im still a noob into wargaming, but i cant get to see the need into having so many different armys for the same guys with so little differences between them, specially when the main diffrence is the paint scheme and looks...

Plastic Orca. Please. Or, the same lines, just half as big. I like the shape, I like the 4 nacells, I like the function. The size is a bit much, but I luuuuuurve it! I'd easily buy 3.

Nagashek wrote:Plastic Orca. Please. Or, the same lines, just half as big. I like the shape, I like the 4 nacells, I like the function. The size is a bit much, but I luuuuuurve it! I'd easily buy 3.

Ahh I don't know, to me the Orca is too boxy, but I like it's four engines. They're unlikely to give it to us however, as the Orca can carry both FW and Suits at the same time. My guess is we'll get something with a smaller carrying capacity.

synchronicity wrote:

Nagashek wrote:Plastic Orca. Please. Or, the same lines, just half as big. I like the shape, I like the 4 nacells, I like the function. The size is a bit much, but I luuuuuurve it! I'd easily buy 3.

Ahh I don't know, to me the Orca is too boxy, but I like it's four engines. They're unlikely to give it to us however, as the Orca can carry both FW and Suits at the same time. My guess is we'll get something with a smaller carrying capacity.

The precedent in normal 40k is already set for stuff like that (carrying different types of models at the same time). The storm raven carries a dread (which in apoc superheavy transports takes 10 infantry slots) as well as 12 infantry. I could see them coming out with something that does 2 or 3 regular crisis suits and 12 infantry.

KaiserEddie wrote:
Im sorry, but thats not the point, i actually think that the Xenos army are better looking than SM, thats true, but, the problem is that there are too many of the SM armys, and i dont think that the more SM armys the better...

You got it the wrong way around; there's not more Space Marine players because there's more codices, there's more codices becasue there's more Space Marine players. If the game was new I'd agree with you, but it's not. There's more Marine codices because Marines were the most popular way back when, dropping Marine codices now would reduce diversity because every single Marine player would be playing with the same Codex.

Back on topic:

Agreed on the CC-Suit, it just doesn't suit (pardon the pun) the Tau. As other posters have suggested, I too would rather see some sort of "stay out/get out of CC" special rules.

Could the cc mean Close quarters instead of close combat?

Warrior Squirrel wrote:Could the cc mean Close quarters instead of close combat?

Counter question: How many c's are in "close quarters"?

Warrior Squirrel wrote:Could the cc mean Close quarters instead of close combat?

You would be looking for CQC not CC.

The idea of a CC suit sounds a little weird and mildly a cop-out. But I have a feeling it will be demiurg, now I could see a bunch of space dwarves making a melee suit.
If anything a CC Tau suit would probably look really cool. I mean picture a more streamline (or heavy) crisis suit with a shield and some form of melee weapon.

I like the idea of a ethereal suit with a huge honor blade.

If we can refrain from veering off onto tangent discussions over marines versus xenos books and the numbers thereof it'd be appreciated. There's always 40k general to discuss such a thing if you must.

Thanks.

Warrior Squirrel wrote:I like the idea of a ethereal suit with a huge honor blade.

I can picture it now, a really gakky action movie: "He tried to convince the senate, but they had given in to corruption. Then the Imperium killed his family and now he´s out for revenge! Ethereal O´Killah in the all new made for tv movie: The Politician - Total Annihilation! ... this time, its personal.

The CC suits could very well be for tarpitting, and that's a lot easier to work in with fluff. Imagine a heavy armor suit with a shield and a flamer and special defensive charges or whatnot. Not actually offensively capable, but able to defend well against CC attacks.

I would not feel that something like that falls entirely outside of the tau style.

CC oriented suit will eventually come, for Honour Guards such as the ones with Aun`Va (I think he died on some novel or so), so that they can face bigger challenges. Honour Blade and energy shields... I can see it.

Suit with Flamers and giant shields, Suits with Spears/Plasma powered swords would be awesome too... Time to stop the wish list for Tau CC suits and get real if they ever made one, it will be not for offensive, but to hold enemys with a double energy shield and best them by stopping their movement and holding the lane while the rest of the army shoots as much as they want.

I like the Shield+Heavy Flamer Suit idea, but, it will have to be very bulky and capable to hold on the Tyranids on CC, since their fluff will probably come from Tyranids invasions i think, and the CC suits would come from the Orks invasions to fight against Nobles and huge Hordes of greenskinz

tarnish wrote:

Warrior Squirrel wrote:I like the idea of a ethereal suit with a huge honor blade.

I can picture it now, a really gakky action movie: "He tried to convince the senate, but they had given in to corruption. Then the Imperium killed his family and now he´s out for revenge! Ethereal O´Killah in the all new made for tv movie: The Politician - Total Annihilation! ... this time, its personal.

Check out Metal Wolf Chaos which, sadly, was never released in the US. From the developers of the Armored Core games, you play as the President of the United States who uses an advanced power armor suit to fight a coup attempt by your corrupt VP.

I can still see the demiurg being the ones with the CC suit though. If it is going to be as big as a dreadnought, it will probably fight like one too. Also they are DWARFS, AND DWARFS R 4 FITE!! Though the Demiurg sound like they will be nothing like the Dwarfs of old.

At this point I am more or less waiting for the eventual picture leak to come out.


**Edit: How could I possible screw it up worse in the edit than the original?

Dantalian wrote:I can still see the demiurg being the ones with the CC suit though. If it is going to be as big as a dreadnought, it will probably fight like one too. Also they are DWARFS, AND DWARFS R 4 FITE!!

Space Dwarven Golems in Power Armor?

I suppose weirder things have happened

Dantalian wrote:I can still see the demiurg being the ones with the CC suit though. If it is going to be as big as a dreadnought, it will probably fight like one too. Also they are DWARFS, AND DWARFS R 4 FITE!! Though the Demiurg sound like they will be nothing like the Dwarfs of old.

At this point I am more or less waiting for the eventual picture leak to come out.


**Edit: How could I possible screw it up worse in the edit than the original?

I can see SM players complaining about this one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

H.B.M.C. wrote:They most certainly are not Archonate. Some people might treat their Marine armies in a modular fashion, but saying that GK, BA, DA and SW are all variations on the same army is quite wrong.

Sorry but I have to make a comment.

So according to your statement CSM should get a codex per army type? But the problem is that they don't and for this reason a lot of people hate SM armies and decide not to play them. It just seem wrong for them to get a NEW codex when one just came out for them.

thevirus wrote:

Dantalian wrote:I can still see the demiurg being the ones with the CC suit though. If it is going to be as big as a dreadnought, it will probably fight like one too. Also they are DWARFS, AND DWARFS R 4 FITE!! Though the Demiurg sound like they will be nothing like the Dwarfs of old.

At this point I am more or less waiting for the eventual picture leak to come out.


**Edit: How could I possible screw it up worse in the edit than the original?

I can see SM players complaining about this one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

H.B.M.C. wrote:They most certainly are not Archonate. Some people might treat their Marine armies in a modular fashion, but saying that GK, BA, DA and SW are all variations on the same army is quite wrong.

Sorry but I have to make a comment.

So according to your statement CSM should get a codex per army type? But the problem is that they don't and for this reason a lot of people hate SM armies and decide not to play them. It just seem wrong for them to get a NEW codex when one just came out for them.

Sorry, but I have to make a counter-comment. This is supposedly what they're doing when the Chaos release comes around. They already split off Chaos Daemons from the main book so now it's Chaos Space Marines and Chaos Daemons. According to what I've been reading both on these forums and over on BoLS and Warseer they're splitting the book again into Chaos Legions and Chaos Renegades, with Renegades supposedly having traitor guard and stuff like the cultists and maybe even the Red Corsairs, and Chaos Legions having the traitor space marine legions, e.g. World Eaters, Death Guard, Thousand Sons, Emperor's Children, Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Alpha Legion, Word Bearers, and the Black Legion. So that brings the total Chaos books up to three, Chaos Legions, Chaos Renegades and Chaos Daemons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In addition, I'd assume Chaos Daemons plays far, FAR, differently then Chaos Space Marines, and CSM and Daemons play differently than IG (which is possibly how the Chaos Renegades book will play)

TheMind wrote:Sorry, but I have to make a counter-comment. This is supposedly what they're doing when the Chaos release comes around. They already split off Chaos Daemons from the main book so now it's Chaos Space Marines and Chaos Daemons. According to what I've been reading both on these forums and over on BoLS and Warseer they're splitting the book again into Chaos Legions and Chaos Renegades, with Renegades supposedly having traitor guard and stuff like the cultists and maybe even the Red Corsairs, and Chaos Legions having the traitor space marine legions, e.g. World Eaters, Death Guard, Thousand Sons, Emperor's Children, Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Alpha Legion, Word Bearers, and the Black Legion. So that brings the total Chaos books up to three, Chaos Legions, Chaos Renegades and Chaos Daemons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In addition, I'd assume Chaos Daemons plays far, FAR, differently then Chaos Space Marines, and CSM and Daemons play differently than IG (which is possibly how the Chaos Renegades book will play)

I hate to add this off-topic tirade, but I can't resist. I think you missed his point entirely. He could have just as easily said 'a codex for each DE Kabal' or 'a codex for each hive fleet' or 'a codex for each (insert non-SM sub faction)' His point is that the sub factions for all other armies are sufficiently represented by their codex and there's no need to differentiate them to the point of multiple codices. SM really have no reason to be an exception to this. They just are. Would they sell fewer SMs if all chapters had to share one codex? I highly doubt it. Plus all SM players would be updated simultaneously, just like all other sub factions of all other armies, and we wouldn't have to wait for SMs between all the interesting releases.

I know the mods are getting squeamish about the perpetuation of this subject, and I'm sorry, but I feel that this is somewhat relevant to Tau rumors. The Tau release date is upsettingly far off because redundant releases are clogging up the schedule. I am very excited about new Tau. At this point there is no army more deserving of an update.

Closer to topic: Does anybody know if XV9 battlesuits will be in the codex? Those are some of the most amazing Forgeworld models ever...

Ah I see, I suppose that makes more sense. As for your question: Supposedly they are. That's one of the things that has been corroborated across multiple sources.

Is that so? Nice...

Any word on the Greater Knarloc? It is "owned" by GW since its in the 40kApoc book. It'd fill the Tau MC quota as well.

Edit: Just wondering what are these "multiple sources" that have been corroborated?

Archonate wrote:Closer to topic: Does anybody know if XV9 battlesuits will be in the codex? Those are some of the most amazing Forgeworld models ever...

From what the other codex got the TAU should get them and the should get a variant types of Hammerheads.

thevirus wrote:

Archonate wrote:Closer to topic: Does anybody know if XV9 battlesuits will be in the codex? Those are some of the most amazing Forgeworld models ever...

From what the other codex got the TAU should get them and the should get a variant types of Hammerheads.

Necrons didnt get the Tomb Stalker though

But XV9's and the Hammerhead variants are much easier to market/make in plastic I suppose

thevirus wrote:

Archonate wrote:Closer to topic: Does anybody know if XV9 battlesuits will be in the codex? Those are some of the most amazing Forgeworld models ever...

From what the other codex got the TAU should get them and the should get a variant types of Hammerheads.

I find it hard to see something better than the current Railgun Fielded. Unless they go full IG and give Tau crazy artillery.