Niexist wrote:So basically your whole premise for not painting your army is resale value? As I said above, if you're so worried about a return on your investment maybe you need a savings account with a decent interest rate instead of miniatures.

Personally I like to think I'm creating something of value to myself, rather than something to sell.

Then I have this grand idea for you kiddo. Take that opinion, use it to make yourself happy, and keep it to yourself because you're the only one it matters to.

Not painting an army because you might want to offload it later isn't an investment. It's just cost-offsetting and loss mitigation. It's not about ROI. Stop using terms you overhead a first year business major talking about in the lunch court.

 sing your life wrote:
Becuase it's more fun to play agianst a good looking army than a few lumps of plastic.

This.

I'm 'in' this hobby because of the painting/modelling side. If you don't paint your minis; be my guest, but I prefer games against armies that are fully painted, or in the progress of being painted.

Niexist wrote:


So basically your whole premise for not painting your army is resale value? As I said above, if you're so worried about a return on your investment maybe you need a savings account with a decent interest rate instead of miniatures.

Personally I like to think I'm creating something of value to myself, rather than something to sell.

Well if you are rich enough to do that it is awesome . Most people here either have to stick to an army which is always good or have to sell their old army to start a new one or switch systems .

I also don't understand the value part. You think that an army that plays well has no value to me , just because it is painted? If it wins and lets me get stuff like tournament prizes or good time gaming , then it has a huge value to me. A master class painted army that sucks has non . Not only it is harder too sell , but I won't have fun time playing it .

Niexist wrote:
I love how you guys know no middle ground, it's either fully painted or grey plastic. Nah, you couldn't just paint your metallics, and major color areas. It's either fully painted, or grey to you guys who are complaining about having a job/family.

Not complaining about having a job or family, I like having a job and a family [well I like having money and I like the 'benefits' of having a wife! ] I also like painting, I find it relaxing and satisfying to see the end results of all of my hard work. So no, I won't quickly slap on some paint. I'll take my time and give the toy soldiers I spent a shedload of money on the best paintjob I can [which isn't very good, but it's the best I can do]. You're right, for me there's no middle ground, and thinking about it I think I'd rather play an unpainted/in progress army than a really badly fully painted one.

 Happyjew wrote:

VensersRevenge wrote:

Makumba wrote:
Nah w40k is all about reading books , writing 100pages fluff for your army , master class converting or painting and singing old english poems as a narrative to your games.

Old English poems? Amateur. I write my fluff in cuneiform and recite whole epics about each shooting and assault phase

You write them down? Ha! I force my models to remember them and recite them during every game.

Well, if they are reciting the battle reports who is supposed to sing my praises in Klingon and Elvish?

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

Niexist wrote:So basically your whole premise for not painting your army is resale value? As I said above, if you're so worried about a return on your investment maybe you need a savings account with a decent interest rate instead of miniatures.

Personally I like to think I'm creating something of value to myself, rather than something to sell.

Then I have this grand idea for you kiddo. Take that opinion, use it to make yourself happy, and keep it to yourself because you're the only one it matters to.

Not painting an army because you might want to offload it later isn't an investment. It's just cost-offsetting and loss mitigation. It's not about ROI. Stop using terms you overhead a first year business major talking about in the lunch court.

You could just buy paint stripper.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

Niexist wrote:So basically your whole premise for not painting your army is resale value? As I said above, if you're so worried about a return on your investment maybe you need a savings account with a decent interest rate instead of miniatures.

Personally I like to think I'm creating something of value to myself, rather than something to sell.

Then I have this grand idea for you kiddo. Take that opinion, use it to make yourself happy, and keep it to yourself because you're the only one it matters to.

Not painting an army because you might want to offload it later isn't an investment. It's just cost-offsetting and loss mitigation. It's not about ROI. Stop using terms you overhead a first year business major talking about in the lunch court.

I see why half of this forum has you on ignore, add one more to the list!

Ignorance is bliss. Must be fun living in a bubble where everyone agrees with you.

i dont know why people get angry over it but honestly that is their own choice
i for one hate the painting aspect but i will not play a game before my entire force is painted
it goes slowly very slowly painting an ork horde list isnt my idea of fun its just worth it to see my army painted and ready to fight

well up untill so A-hole comes and tells me how gakky my painting is and that i should redo the whole thing

atlervetok wrote:
i dont know why people get angry over it but honestly that is their own choice
i for one hate the painting aspect but i will not play a game before my entire force is painted
it goes slowly very slowly painting an ork horde list isnt my idea of fun its just worth it to see my army painted and ready to fight

well up untill so A-hole comes and tells me how gakky my painting is and that i should redo the whole thing

I always try to compliment peoples paint job, and would never insult someone that I had met that took the time to paint their models. I am new to the hobby, but pretty much everyone at the game store I go to plays with painted models.

I don't get angry over it, but to me resale value isn't a legitmate reason. It's like buying a washer and dryer, but keeping them in a box and going to the laundromat, because someday you'd like to sell it as brand new. Or I guess a closer analogy would be people who collect toys as children, and don't open them/play with them so they'll be worth more.

Honestly I have to admit that I got a little upset over this very issue this Saturday at a local tournament. Just a lot of issues really made the entire event a terrible day for me. But I went against this one guy, whom I've gone against the first round the last 4 tournaments in a row I believe, and he had unassembled models that he used the last four tournaments. Simple things I didn't mind, like most of his assault marines missing heads. What bothered me really was his chapter master was just a bike model with no torso that was equipped with a stormshield and his bike squad fitted with plasma guns that were now grav weapons. Really though it was more the modeling aspect than the painting issue. I do see where people are coming from though. This was a very friendly tournament but still he put so little effort into getting his models ready that it was kind of irritating. My friend for example spent a lot of time just converting grav guns and getting everything primed and base coated just for the tournament so there wouldn't be confusion when it came to wargear. Another issue was using a storm raven without weapons attached. It's really hard to figure out the 45degree arc on a phantom melta gun!

In all fairness he gave me a copy of his list before the game started, but this guy does take a while for his turns and our game got stopped after his turn 4 but before I could even pull my troops in. If he would have had a fully modeled army at the least I wouldn't need to keep looking over his list while the clock was ticking. I really don't think he did it intentionally, but losing a turn on an objective mission really blows.

Really though if it was outside a tournament setting and the other events of that day weren't so bad then I wouldn't have made it an issue for me. Poorly laid out terrain on the tables, only a 6 man showing with a player quiting after the first game and a second after the 2nd round (double 1's on the deamon chart is apparently bad on turn one), and the canceling of the third round because the guy with the bodyless chapter master took 3 hours for his 2nd round. This ended up with me only playing one game, getting a buy, and then wasting the day waiting for the third round that never happened.

Really in the end there is dozens of ways and methods to do your army that fits any lifestyle or work schedule. You either have a "I can attitude" or have the defeatist attitude and come up with all the reasons why you cant.

Its not hard to figure out which one is the better attitude to have.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Really in the end there is dozens of ways and methods to do your army that fits any lifestyle or work schedule. You either have a "I can attitude" or have the defeatist attitude and come up with all the reasons why you cant.

Its not hard to figure out which one is the better attitude to have.

Everyone who is still painting or has not painted there army, give up were defeatists! Its also not a good attitude to force your opinions down other peoples throats, label them with such titles as "quitters" or "defeatists" over painting in a hobby.

Well considering you have been on the internet for well over an hour doing nothing and then tell everyone that life is hard and you have no time to paint, that's kind of dumb.

Btw, I used this time to good use and painted a unit of fire dragons, and while waiting for the washes to dry I made my lunch for the week. So instead of finding reasons why not, stop being lazy and do something. Unless they changed the armies slogan to "be all you can be, eventually, if you feel like it."

I have a friend who has a "Valkyrie", which is just a kids plane and doesn't look 40k style at all. One game he had a "nephilim jetfighter", which was literally just a piece of cardboard with the words "nephelim jetfighter" written on it.

He's just starting out, and he wants to try things out before buying them, and cashflow is a problem for him. Totall understandable. Am I going to refuse a game? No. Am I going to say he can't use it? No. Does it retract from the game? Yes. I've poured a lot of time and energy into painting (I really struggle for time and I don't particularly enjoy it) because it adds so much to the gaming experience and makes the game come alive. After all, that's why we have the models there in the first place right? We could just have pieces of paper which have stats or markers on them, we could just push around printed pictures. The game centres around the models, and therefore what the models look like actually is of some importance. I'm not going to refuse to play anyone - someone can have an army of salt shakers and paint pots if they really want. But it's not even comparable to facing a proper army which is full of character and brings life to the table.

It's really not so different a concept to an unpainted army, it's just that they're not so extreme on the spectrum. But the reasoning is the same.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Well considering you have been on the internet for well over an hour doing nothing and then tell everyone that life is hard and you have no time to paint, that's kind of dumb.

Btw, I used this time to good use and painted a unit of fire dragons, and while waiting for the washes to dry I made my lunch for the week. So instead of finding reasons why not, stop being lazy and do something. Unless they changed the armies slogan to "be all you can be, eventually, if you feel like it."

And you were right there with me man on the internet for an hour telling everyone how lazy they are for not painting, I can tit for tat as much as you do. Oh and during this I just completed my twelve page midterm since I was on the internet doing my online history course, as I said I can tit for tat all day, keep trying!

 Happyjew wrote:

VensersRevenge wrote:

Makumba wrote:
Nah w40k is all about reading books , writing 100pages fluff for your army , master class converting or painting and singing old english poems as a narrative to your games.

Old English poems? Amateur. I write my fluff in cuneiform and recite whole epics about each shooting and assault phase

You write them down? Ha! I force my models to remember them and recite them during every game.

Wait! You got them to stop singing We Are Family?

 Ravenous D wrote:
Really in the end there is dozens of ways and methods to do your army that fits any lifestyle or work schedule. You either have a "I can attitude" or have the defeatist attitude and come up with all the reasons why you cant.

Its not hard to figure out which one is the better attitude to have.

You're absolutely right, I do fit painting my army in with my lifestyle and my work schedule. That's why it will take me years to complete my army. "I can do it"! I think it shows more determination having an army in progress that you intend to paint properly, rather than spray painting them green and pouring Quick Shade over the top.

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Really in the end there is dozens of ways and methods to do your army that fits any lifestyle or work schedule. You either have a "I can attitude" or have the defeatist attitude and come up with all the reasons why you cant.

Its not hard to figure out which one is the better attitude to have.

You're absolutely right, I do fit painting my army in with my lifestyle and my work schedule. That's why it will take me years to complete my army. "I can do it"! I think it shows more determination having an army in progress that you intend to paint properly, rather than spray painting them green and pouring Quick Shade over the top.

Hey thats how i started... Although its more spray paint black, then paint the aquila and shoulder pads white. Hehe

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Really in the end there is dozens of ways and methods to do your army that fits any lifestyle or work schedule. You either have a "I can attitude" or have the defeatist attitude and come up with all the reasons why you cant.

Its not hard to figure out which one is the better attitude to have.

You're absolutely right, I do fit painting my army in with my lifestyle and my work schedule. That's why it will take me years to complete my army. "I can do it"! I think it shows more determination having an army in progress that you intend to paint properly, rather than spray painting them green and pouring Quick Shade over the top.

Using the "10 minute" method leaves the model in a above average playable table top state, and has the ground work for wet blending if you choose to. Block layering is for suckers and masochists.

Niexist wrote:
I think a good example of how much it hurts immersion would be my dark vengeance boxed set. I assembled all my models as soon as I got them, and while I was painting they sat in the box. When I would open that box there is no way I could possibly distinguish chaos space marines, from dark angels. They were all just a blob of grey models, as I got them all painted it was so easy to distinguish between them, and between the different types of units.

When you're forced to play against a grey army, because someone is too "busy" to even slap on a basecoat it is the same thing, am I playing tau? am I playing eldar? How would I know they're all just gray. However when I play against a painted army it is so easy to distinguish, and that fact alone makes the game more enjoyable to me. If I can't even tell what model you're using what is the point of even playing?

What does color have to do with "what army am I playing" when someone can paint their Tau in Iyanden bright sun just as readily as their eldar? Can you still not tell the difference because they are using an eldar color? Also when you just "slap on a basecoat" you got from playing against a "Gray" army to playing against a "Green" army or a "black" army, or a whatever single color army. How does that magically tell you what you are facing on the table?

Most armies have a unique character and style, and the absolutely simplest and most effective way to know what army you are playing against is to *ASK YOUR OPPONENT*. They will 99.9% of the time be totally honest when asked that question.

Skriker

Here's a great idea. Next time you go to a magic the gathering tournament, instead of using magic cards, take 60 index cards, cut them to the exact dimensions of a magic card, and scribble out the card names and text. Don't worry about being specific in the text either, it's fairly unimportant whether it's black or red mana needed, really, it's just about having fun. If your opponent doesn't understand that, he's clearly an elitist jerk with too much money and too much time on his hands.

This thread still going huh? Hahaha. I understand cost off-setting with re-selling minis, but do you even get that much return for what you've got? I have been selling on eBay recently, and I have to say, I'm not getting NEAR what I paid for the stuff. Second hand is ok but I feel the cost offset is not as balanced as it might seem.

I too have started to focus on one army and stick with it, I used to just buy everything and go with it... but I'm getting too old for that and have too many obligations now. I'll stick with one and one for Fantasy and 40K.. or at least try for now. I have very little time for painting anymore with the 9 month old... and it's not usually fair to just dump her on the wife so I can paint.. you'd be surprised how bad that conversation goes. Babies want you ALL the time, not just some of it. But I still find time for some painting.

Of course, I haven't PLAYED a match since Adepticon.. so that's a long time.

anchorbine wrote:
Here's a great idea. Next time you go to a magic the gathering tournament, instead of using magic cards, take 60 index cards, cut them to the exact dimensions of a magic card, and scribble out the card names and text. Don't worry about being specific in the text either, it's fairly unimportant whether it's black or red mana needed, really, it's just about having fun. If your opponent doesn't understand that, he's clearly an elitist jerk with too much money and too much time on his hands.

It's almost like a tournament and casual play are different things.
Also, Magic has specific rules regarding proxies and what are legal cards. 40k doesn't.

Here's a great idea. Next time you want to participate in a thread do so politely instead of trolling.

Niexist wrote:
I love how you guys know no middle ground, it's either fully painted or grey plastic. Nah, you couldn't just paint your metallics, and major color areas. It's either fully painted, or grey to you guys who are complaining about having a job/family.

Actually not...if you bothered to read the whole thread you are more than a bit off target here. I've painted plenty of figures and armies in my day and even my nurgle and slaanesh forces which all pretty much have the base armor, shade and highlights in place get grief because they aren't "fully" painted. It is actually the other side that make the determination of it being "fully painted or not". Want to paint your armies to a crap "table top acceptable" standard then please feel free to do so, but don't expect others to do so just because you like doing it.

Skriker

It's probably a "I put all this effort into making my army nice and for what?" sort of thing when you have a fully painted army and the opponent has some partially assembled grey hordes. I can't really blame people for getting miffed when their opponent doesn't even make an effort. I also understand when people don't paint their armies.

Of course, this being the domain of nerds, there will be some elitism involve. I... sort of feel this when I face this when facing an unpainted army. It makes me feel better when I lose certainly.

Niexist wrote:
I don't get angry over it, but to me resale value isn't a legitmate reason. It's like buying a washer and dryer, but keeping them in a box and going to the laundromat, because someday you'd like to sell it as brand new. Or I guess a closer analogy would be people who collect toys as children, and don't open them/play with them so they'll be worth more.

Here is a bit of a clue for you Niexst, you don't get to decide if someone's reason for not painting their models is legitimate or not. You have zero say in the matter. If they don't paint for that reason and they are happy with it, then that is all that matters really. You can make analogies all day, but it still doesn't give you the authority to determine if someone else's reasons are legitimate or not.

Skriker


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Really in the end there is dozens of ways and methods to do your army that fits any lifestyle or work schedule. You either have a "I can attitude" or have the defeatist attitude and come up with all the reasons why you cant.

Its not hard to figure out which one is the better attitude to have.

Nice when something so simple can be the solution, except when it can't. I am too busy applying my "I Can" attitude to the more important things in my life. The real issue here is that other people seem to feel they are in the position to demand/expect that painting should be one of those more important things in my life, or I am lazy. That makes me laugh heartily when I think about all the committments I fit into a typical week. "I'm too busy" isn't an excuse. It is a fact. If I get a brief refrain from commitments for hobby time I am getting my minis on a table and not just sitting alone and painting them since playing the game is why I got involved in the first place.

Skriker


Automatically Appended Next Post:

anchorbine wrote:
Here's a great idea. Next time you go to a magic the gathering tournament, instead of using magic cards, take 60 index cards, cut them to the exact dimensions of a magic card, and scribble out the card names and text. Don't worry about being specific in the text either, it's fairly unimportant whether it's black or red mana needed, really, it's just about having fun. If your opponent doesn't understand that, he's clearly an elitist jerk with too much money and too much time on his hands.

And today's award for useless extreme analogy goes to: Anchorbine...this is just as stupid as the playing basketball without running analogy from late last week. No one is trying to play 40k without miniatures, so why would you play Magic without actual Magic cards?

Skriker

Automatically Appended Next Post:

anchorbine wrote:
Here's a great idea. Next time you go to a magic the gathering tournament, instead of using magic cards, take 60 index cards, cut them to the exact dimensions of a magic card, and scribble out the card names and text. Don't worry about being specific in the text either, it's fairly unimportant whether it's black or red mana needed, really, it's just about having fun. If your opponent doesn't understand that, he's clearly an elitist jerk with too much money and too much time on his hands.

And today's award for useless extreme analogy goes to: Anchorbine...this is just as stupid as the playing basketball without running analogy from late last week. No one is trying to play 40k without miniatures, so why would you play Magic without actual Magic cards?

Skriker

 Ravenous D wrote:

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Really in the end there is dozens of ways and methods to do your army that fits any lifestyle or work schedule. You either have a "I can attitude" or have the defeatist attitude and come up with all the reasons why you cant.

Its not hard to figure out which one is the better attitude to have.

You're absolutely right, I do fit painting my army in with my lifestyle and my work schedule. That's why it will take me years to complete my army. "I can do it"! I think it shows more determination having an army in progress that you intend to paint properly, rather than spray painting them green and pouring Quick Shade over the top.

Using the "10 minute" method leaves the model in a above average playable table top state, and has the ground work for wet blending if you choose to. Block layering is for suckers and masochists.

The "do-it-like-me-or-do-it-wrong" is strong in this one.

anchorbine wrote:
Actually. No. If you find it acceptable to play against a guy whose using an unpainted space marine still missing the weapons and using it as a chaos cultist, why would it bother you to play against a guy who scribbled up his own magic cards? It's a very similar analogy. Gee, I can't afford magic cards, this is the best I can do. Gee, I don't have time to paint my models, build them correctly, or even get the right model.

And the basketball analogy isn't all that stupid either. The game is far more enjoyable if your opponent is trying. If he's just lobbing up half court shots because it's "how I play", it's definitely going to detract from the game.

You are new here, so I'll be nice. NO ONE is saying that it is acceptable to play using space marines missing the weapons and calling them chaos cultists. NO ONE. This is a thread about unpainted armies. The only people talking about unbuilt models are those who are trying to denegrate those who don't have fully painted armies further, by not even implying, but openly stating that not painting your army is the same as playing with half built miniatures or proxies. They are NOT the same thing. The majority of unpainted armies that will be seen on a table at 100% WYSIWYG. They just aren't painted. If you actually took the time to read the whole thread you will see multiple places where many, including myself, make it clear that unbuilt minis are not acceptable on the table top because it is a miniatures game. If a group, together, decides they want to play using bottle caps to save money that is fine for them to do, but they will be called on it if they bring their bottle caps to a store for a general game.

So again, your analogy is invalid, because no one finds your initial premise as valid, so playing with scribbled magic cards doesn't work either.

The basketball analogy is also wrong for the same reasons. You don't remove a vital part of playing a game and then compare it to something esoteric like painting. As I said in my response to that analogy, not having painted minis in a 40k game is akin to playing basketball with a ball that isn't orange or by teams not wearing coordinated colored jersey's. As long as the ball has the exact same size, properties and characteristics as a regular basketball then the color doesn't matter and as long as the team's in the game know who they are jerseys also are not vital. Same with a space marine armed with a multi-melta. It is a marine with a multi-melta whether it is fully painted, completely unpainted or somewhere in between. If it is just a pair of legs it is nothing.

Skriker

 fishy bob wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Really in the end there is dozens of ways and methods to do your army that fits any lifestyle or work schedule. You either have a "I can attitude" or have the defeatist attitude and come up with all the reasons why you cant.

Its not hard to figure out which one is the better attitude to have.

You're absolutely right, I do fit painting my army in with my lifestyle and my work schedule. That's why it will take me years to complete my army. "I can do it"! I think it shows more determination having an army in progress that you intend to paint properly, rather than spray painting them green and pouring Quick Shade over the top.

Using the "10 minute" method leaves the model in a above average playable table top state, and has the ground work for wet blending if you choose to. Block layering is for suckers and masochists.

The "do-it-like-me-or-do-it-wrong" is strong in this one.

Have you tried block layering compared to airbrushing and washing? If you can do something faster and better why wouldn't you?

Wait.

Nevermind.

Refer to this:

Haha, nice cartoon. I do believe there is too much "You're special just like everyone else" going around in schools these days... hahaha, that's great.

Not sure it fully fits in with the thread, but I lol'd at that. Nice.

Why are there so many personal attacks in this thread? See, the next thread should be... "Why does it make people mad when someone else disagrees with them?" Come on guys, it's a forum for solid debate and there has been some good in this one, let's not devolve into tearing others down, I apologize if I did that in this thread. Let's keep it civil eh?

 Ravenous D wrote:
Wait.

Nevermind.

Refer to this:

I don't see the relevance?

 Ravenous D wrote:
Have you tried block layering compared to airbrushing and washing? If you can do something faster and better why wouldn't you?

Insulting comic aside, I've tried multiple ways to have "fast" paint jobs and dislike my results. That doesn't mean it won't work for someone else, but saying "just do this" as if it's a magic bullet is silly.
Even more so when some people just picking up this game will see what you said and have zero comprehension of what it means.

Have you tried block layering compared to airbrushing and washing? If you can do something faster and better why wouldn't you?

Wait.

Nevermind.

Refer to this:

So wait, your now just telling people that they suck entirely?

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Have you tried block layering compared to airbrushing and washing? If you can do something faster and better why wouldn't you?

Wait.

Nevermind.

Refer to this:

So wait, your now just telling people that they suck entirely?

If so, then there really is no incentive for me to paint my army. I think people would rather play against an unpainted army than the eyesore that is my painting.

 Matt1785 wrote:
Haha, nice cartoon. I do believe there is too much "You're special just like everyone else" going around in schools these days... hahaha, that's great.

Call me crazy but I believe that comic was a satire of that very thought process. Thus defeating the purpose of posting it to prove a point.


To contribute to the discussion. I wonder what makes unpainted minis ruin immersion for some folks. I mean if you have the imagination to do the whole hobby then paint shouldn't really stop you. Curious as I would like to see what some of these individuals armies and boards look like in order for anything less then what they use to break their immersion.

Personally I don't really notice the lack of paint on my opponents army. If I am getting into a game then what exactly each piece looks like has little relevance once my mind takes over. After the game I might reflect on which of my stuff still could use some color though.

 BrotherGecko wrote:

 Matt1785 wrote:
Haha, nice cartoon. I do believe there is too much "You're special just like everyone else" going around in schools these days... hahaha, that's great.

Call me crazy but I believe that comic was a satire of that very thought process. Thus defeating the purpose of posting it to prove a point.


To contribute to the discussion. I wonder what makes unpainted minis ruin immersion for some folks. I mean if you have the imagination to do the whole hobby then paint shouldn't really stop you. Curious as I would like to see what some of these individuals armies and boards look like in order for anything less then what they use to break their immersion.

Personally I don't really notice the lack of paint on my opponents army. If I am getting into a game then what exactly each piece looks like has little relevance once my mind takes over. After the game I might reflect on which of my stuff still could use some color though.

This is actually a great point... Most people who paint don't follow the exact paint scheme that GW has set for us, they use there imagination. If you don't like grey models try utilizing some of that imagination? lol.

I think the large and the thick of it is misery loves company. People get upset when they lose a game with their fully painted army to an unpainted one. They think because THEY put in the time others have to as well. I think that's a silly mind set. Just my two cents.

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
I think the large and the thick of it is misery loves company. People get upset when they lose a game with their fully painted army to an unpainted one.

And I think you're way off the mark, again. First, I'm yet to be convinced that anybody truly gets upset or angry over unpainted minis. Second, I'm almost certain that anybody who does, it'll be precisely because of that issue - being unpainted. Their feelings over winning or losing is another matter entirely. Let's not turn the central issue into something else, again.

You wouldn't see an unpainted army in very many historical based games......well maybe Flames of War games.


Regardless of the game, I'd bet money the more mature or older a player is the higher chance they'll show up with a painted army.

Some Newbs can't or don't know how to paint.

A crapily painted army is more embarrassing than a gray one.

Newbs should be forgiven for their lack of paint. Though I honestly would prefer to play with other acceptable players who have painted armies.

The incredibly well painted minis on the internet, blogs, and in gaming magazines can be very intimidating and an insecure new gamer may fear their clumsy handed attempts and results. The gamer with unpainted minis may also be mentally handicapped or physically clumsy.

I encourage other players to paint, provide positive feedback for painting progress, and let them win battles (joke, I always lose regardless).

If one knows a good gamer with a poorly painted or unpainted army, they should try and spend some time with the other guy and teach them a little confidence and painting technique. Don't be a Grognard.

Worst case scenario, the ADD patient with the hordes of cool unpainted tanks and minis will lose interest and sell their plastic/resin/metal booty for dimes on the dollar.

xoxoxox

Lol mentally handicapped

Guess I'm lazy then since my Farsight Enclave isn't fully painted, even if it's because I'm painting my Vampires atm.

Im one of those A-Holes who will not play against an unpainted army. Nor will I play with a unpainted miniature. Im sorry and mean no disrespect.

I spent 1000's of hours and money on my armies, and only want to pit it against other armies of it's caliber.

I play against painted armies because it tells me one, that player is into the game and adores it as much as me.

Second, it really helps my imagination really run wild when I'm fighting painted armies.

Sorry to be the Jerk, but there is to much awesome to be had playing and competing against painted armies.

 Mark1130 wrote:
Im one of those A-Holes who will not play against an unpainted army. Nor will I play with a unpainted miniature. Im sorry and mean no disrespect.

I spent 1000's of hours and money on my armies, and only want to pit it against other armies of it's caliber. I play against painted armies because it tells me one, that player is into the game and adores it as much as me. Second, it really helps my imagination really run wild when I'm fighting painted armies.

Sorry to be the Jerk, but there is to much awesome to be had playing and competing against painted armies.

And what if someone cannot paint without physical pain and doesn't have the money to afford the army AND a commission?

 Krellnus wrote:

 Mark1130 wrote:
Im one of those A-Holes who will not play against an unpainted army. Nor will I play with a unpainted miniature. Im sorry and mean no disrespect.

I spent 1000's of hours and money on my armies, and only want to pit it against other armies of it's caliber. I play against painted armies because it tells me one, that player is into the game and adores it as much as me. Second, it really helps my imagination really run wild when I'm fighting painted armies.

Sorry to be the Jerk, but there is to much awesome to be had playing and competing against painted armies.

And what if someone cannot paint without physical pain and doesn't have the money to afford the army AND a commission?

I said I was a A-hole not a douch LOL. I would NEVER EVER hold a handicap against them. Id totally play them

 Mark1130 wrote:

 Krellnus wrote:

 Mark1130 wrote:
Im one of those A-Holes who will not play against an unpainted army. Nor will I play with a unpainted miniature. Im sorry and mean no disrespect.

I spent 1000's of hours and money on my armies, and only want to pit it against other armies of it's caliber. I play against painted armies because it tells me one, that player is into the game and adores it as much as me. Second, it really helps my imagination really run wild when I'm fighting painted armies.

Sorry to be the Jerk, but there is to much awesome to be had playing and competing against painted armies.

And what if someone cannot paint without physical pain and doesn't have the money to afford the army AND a commission?

I said I was a A-hole not a douch LOL. I would NEVER EVER hold a handicap against them. Id totally play them

So not painting your models is a lack of committment, unless you have a handicap, in which case its ok?

 Krellnus wrote:

 Mark1130 wrote:

 Krellnus wrote:

 Mark1130 wrote:
Im one of those A-Holes who will not play against an unpainted army. Nor will I play with a unpainted miniature. Im sorry and mean no disrespect.

I spent 1000's of hours and money on my armies, and only want to pit it against other armies of it's caliber. I play against painted armies because it tells me one, that player is into the game and adores it as much as me. Second, it really helps my imagination really run wild when I'm fighting painted armies.

Sorry to be the Jerk, but there is to much awesome to be had playing and competing against painted armies.

And what if someone cannot paint without physical pain and doesn't have the money to afford the army AND a commission?

I said I was a A-hole not a douch LOL. I would NEVER EVER hold a handicap against them. Id totally play them

So not painting your models is a lack of committment, unless you have a handicap, in which case its ok?

I think your a fellow gamer who is just going to pick apart my posts the further we communicate, so lets agree to disagree, shake hands and move on!

 Mark1130 wrote:
I play against painted armies because it tells me one, that player is into the game and adores it as much as me.

You are free to only play against painted armies, but facing a painted army does not mean what you claim here. I've known plenty of people who have fully painted armies in a variety of games and it comes out that they are just completely casual players and don't know the rules much at all. Only reason their armies are painted is because they bought someone else's painted miniatures. I have no fully painted armies right now because I've sold them all off and my time for painting has gotten less and less in recent years, but I've been committed to this game practically since the beginning in the late 80s. Can't tell me I am not "into the game" if I've been doing it for that long even if I have a new army on the table that doesn't have color on it.

This is an example of yet another unsupported assumption around painted armies, though hardly the negative type that most people throw around. Your only evidence is a painted army. What does that evidence prove? Solely that your opponent has a painted army.

Skriker

Personal experience quoted here.

I have never played with an unpainted army. Why? Simply because I was into the building and painting long before I actually started playing so I have always had a buffer of painted units to use while the new shiny is assembled and painted.

I have played against unpainted armies and while I cannot say my favourite battles have been purely against painted armies, I can say all of my least favourite games have been against unpainted armies. That, however, was mainly due to the attitude of the opponent rather than the unpainted army. I'm talking people who despite having had the models for some time still hadn't glued them to the bases or wings to their back. In my experience those types are also more likely to bend rules or indeed just spout crap.

It certainly doesn't make me mad that gamers play with unpainted. Some people want to use their new units straight away and that's fine by me.

 Skriker wrote:

 Mark1130 wrote:
I play against painted armies because it tells me one, that player is into the game and adores it as much as me.

You are free to only play against painted armies, but facing a painted army does not mean what you claim here. I've known plenty of people who have fully painted armies in a variety of games and it comes out that they are just completely casual players and don't know the rules much at all. Only reason their armies are painted is because they bought someone else's painted miniatures. I have no fully painted armies right now because I've sold them all off and my time for painting has gotten less and less in recent years, but I've been committed to this game practically since the beginning in the late 80s. Can't tell me I am not "into the game" if I've been doing it for that long even if I have a new army on the table that doesn't have color on it.

This is an example of yet another unsupported assumption around painted armies, though hardly the negative type that most people throw around. Your only evidence is a painted army. What does that evidence prove? Solely that your opponent has a painted army.

Skriker

Theres truth here. That may be just the gaming culture around you. I never played or meet a casual player with a painted army, never. I have meet, played against quite afew casual, prime armies though.

Guys, what Im saying is my opinion and how I choose to play this game, in the end we all love. Here, where i'm from, 40k players all tend to paint. The very few unpainted armies I have crossed in the 15 years I have been playing, were very casual. I do not in anyway judge or profile a gamer based on a miniature's paint job or lack thereof. I just choose to PLAY....repeat....PLAY against painted armies. Please stop taking my comments out of context.
Just because I don't see it YOUR way does not make me a villain. I only base what I know from experiences I have had. I have played against all types, and very rarely do I turn a game down.

That, however, was mainly due to the attitude of the opponent rather than the unpainted army. I'm talking people who despite having had the models for some time still hadn't glued them to the bases or wings to their back.

Why add this then? We are talking unpainted WYSIWYG models, not people who just play with cardboard or what have you.

I very rarely paint, hate doing it, don't like the way my models come out and I work shifts which leaves me so tired that I struggle to find the motivation in the first place; plus lack of patience. I recently painted a load of Eldar models to a standard which I am just about ok with, but then the motivation went. The most I tend to do is fully paint a few models then spray the rest and that is about as far as I get.

Azza I noticed you got a bruins logo! If you're in the boston area we should play a game sometime!

 Krellnus wrote:

 Mark1130 wrote:
Im one of those A-Holes who will not play against an unpainted army. Nor will I play with a unpainted miniature. Im sorry and mean no disrespect.

I spent 1000's of hours and money on my armies, and only want to pit it against other armies of it's caliber. I play against painted armies because it tells me one, that player is into the game and adores it as much as me. Second, it really helps my imagination really run wild when I'm fighting painted armies.

Sorry to be the Jerk, but there is to much awesome to be had playing and competing against painted armies.

And what if someone cannot paint without physical pain and doesn't have the money to afford the army AND a commission?

sell off your unused stuff, save money by hunting for deals on minis and/or buying from the cheapest online discounters you can find and buy less crap. eventually you should be able to save up enough to get some commission.

but then putting up ebay listing or hunting for deals is also probably too much effort for the nonpainters.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

That, however, was mainly due to the attitude of the opponent rather than the unpainted army. I'm talking people who despite having had the models for some time still hadn't glued them to the bases or wings to their back.

Why add this then? We are talking unpainted WYSIWYG models, not people who just play with cardboard or what have you.

I mentioned it because the player had unpainted WYSIWYG Swooping Hawk Eldar models that were not even glued into slotta bases or had the wings on. The models and the wings were laid out flat on the board.

Who said anything about cardboard?

alphaecho wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

That, however, was mainly due to the attitude of the opponent rather than the unpainted army. I'm talking people who despite having had the models for some time still hadn't glued them to the bases or wings to their back.

Why add this then? We are talking unpainted WYSIWYG models, not people who just play with cardboard or what have you.

I mentioned it because the player had unpainted WYSIWYG Swooping Hawk Eldar models that were not even glued into slotta bases or had the wings on. The models and the wings were laid out flat on the board.

Who said anything about cardboard?

It's been one of the insults being slung around when it comes to unpainted, that not only is it unpainted, your likely just using 'cardboard, unbuilt models' or something like that in a manner to consider those who don't paint in a degenerate manner.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

alphaecho wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

That, however, was mainly due to the attitude of the opponent rather than the unpainted army. I'm talking people who despite having had the models for some time still hadn't glued them to the bases or wings to their back.

Why add this then? We are talking unpainted WYSIWYG models, not people who just play with cardboard or what have you.

I mentioned it because the player had unpainted WYSIWYG Swooping Hawk Eldar models that were not even glued into slotta bases or had the wings on. The models and the wings were laid out flat on the board.

Who said anything about cardboard?

It's been one of the insults being slung around when it comes to unpainted, that not only is it unpainted, your likely just using 'cardboard, unbuilt models' or something like that in a manner to consider those who don't paint in a degenerate manner.

Oh...like Tinboy!

I'm giving up on the tinterwebz...I can't keep up with the memes!

I still giggle at CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT and "All you base are belong to us"

 Mark1130 wrote:

 Skriker wrote:
This is an example of yet another unsupported assumption around painted armies, though hardly the negative type that most people throw around. Your only evidence is a painted army. What does that evidence prove? Solely that your opponent has a painted army.

Skriker

Theres truth here. That may be just the gaming culture around you. I never played or meet a casual player with a painted army, never. I have meet, played against quite afew casual, prime armies though.

Guys, what Im saying is my opinion and how I choose to play this game, in the end we all love. Here, where i'm from, 40k players all tend to paint. The very few unpainted armies I have crossed in the 15 years I have been playing, were very casual. I do not in anyway judge or profile a gamer based on a miniature's paint job or lack thereof. I just choose to PLAY....repeat....PLAY against painted armies. Please stop taking my comments out of context.
Just because I don't see it YOUR way does not make me a villain. I only base what I know from experiences I have had. I have played against all types, and very rarely do I turn a game down.

Notice the laughing orkmoticon at the end of the comments. It means that no one is making you a villain, just pointing out that your experiences are not the only experiences out there. Chill out. This is the internet. If you post an opinion here others will also post their opinions in response to it. That is how it works. Don't want people to comment on what appeals to them then don't post at all. I cut out this piece of your post because it was the only part of it I disagreed with. That is called "quoting" not "taking comments out of context". The former is to highlight why you are replying and the latter implies changing the connotation of the quote in some significant way by removing it from supporting statements. Again, this is how it works. You can demand in bold letters all you want, but people will still say what they want to say about your post. Why you are acting like someone attacked you for how you play when all I did was comment on one small part of your post? You need some thicker skin if you are going to stay around here for long.

Yes this is dependent on local players, but our local experiences are not the end all and be all of existence. Hearing what other players have experienced broadens our own perspective of things. In our earlier Flames of war leagues the rules initially were built with extra points for fully painted armies and votes for best painted, etc. and we had to tweak/modify them because multiple players did zero painting and bought all their models prepainted on ebay. Neither player was as hard core interested in the game or the miniatures hobby as everyone else either. They wanted to play the game from time to time, but didn't want the hassle of the hobby side. No sweat off my back, as it is their hobby to approach as they choose. As a group, them included, we felt they didn't deserve a major bonus of any kind for not doing any work, but instead of just penalizing them, we decresed the significance of painted armies in scoring. So it was the same for everyone. I have also run across people like this in 40k as well. They just wanted to play a game and found buying a bunch of painted minis to allow them to play no different than buying a bunch of magic cards to play. They knew they had no hobby interests so didn't bother. Not even remotely as committed to the "hobby" overall or the game play in particular.

Skriker

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Azza I noticed you got a bruins logo! If you're in the boston area we should play a game sometime!

Note the flag, may be difficult. Though I do have it as a must to go to Boston and see them play.

 Azza007 wrote:

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Azza I noticed you got a bruins logo! If you're in the boston area we should play a game sometime!

Note the flag, may be difficult. Though I do have it as a must to go to Boston and see them play.

Take your army when you do.

Skriker

 Azza007 wrote:

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Azza I noticed you got a bruins logo! If you're in the boston area we should play a game sometime!

Note the flag, may be difficult. Though I do have it as a must to go to Boston and see them play.

I salute you sir, if you do make it down... I'll catch the game with you and buy you a beer!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Skriker wrote:

 Azza007 wrote:

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Azza I noticed you got a bruins logo! If you're in the boston area we should play a game sometime!

Note the flag, may be difficult. Though I do have it as a must to go to Boston and see them play.

Take your army when you do.

Skriker

Skriker, when he comes to visit get your ass up from PA, we'll have a 3 way!

Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 Azza007 wrote:

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Azza I noticed you got a bruins logo! If you're in the boston area we should play a game sometime!

Note the flag, may be difficult. Though I do have it as a must to go to Boston and see them play.

I salute you sir, if you do make it down... I'll catch the game with you and buy you a beer!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Skriker wrote:

 Azza007 wrote:

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Azza I noticed you got a bruins logo! If you're in the boston area we should play a game sometime!

Note the flag, may be difficult. Though I do have it as a must to go to Boston and see them play.

Take your army when you do.

Skriker

Skriker, when he comes to visit get your ass up from PA, we'll have a 3 way!

Nah, let's all just meet in Buffalo. We'll get in a couple of games, have a few Canadian beers, and watch the Bruins beat the ever-living crap out of my beloved Sabres.

Fun though it is to meet up with fellow enthusiasts and drink beer, things have got off topic so I will close the thread.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Fun though it is to meet up with fellow enthusiasts and drink beer, things have got off topic so I will close the thread.

You didn't close the thread.

So why does it matter if some people don't want to play against an unpainted army? I've seen the term "butt-hurt" thrown down, yet it seems to apply more to those who feel slighted by not being accepted somehow by the entire WH40K community regardless of their unpainted army. I don't assume anything about WHY an army is unpainted nor do I ascribe any reasons for it; it simply makes the game less enjoyable for me. But I don't play pick-up games either, so it's not like I show up at a store looking to play and then refuse because I don't like what I see. If others don't mind unpainted minis, great! Why do I have to conform to another standard or be labeled as someone undesirable? It's nothing more than political correctness for a hobby. How silly is that?

I don't play against unpainted armies, but plenty of others do. So why is there a demand for total acceptance? It is not only not needed, it will never happen.

The OP asked the question why does it make people mad when others have unpainted armies, not why don't people play against those armies. I'm just curious why it actually irks people...

 Happyjew wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Fun though it is to meet up with fellow enthusiasts and drink beer, things have got off topic so I will close the thread.

You didn't close the thread.

Got it back on track though.

The reason why a lot of people dislike unpainted armies is because for most wargamers wargaming is playing tabletop games with painted models.

The long standing culture is to use painted armies. Players who don't think it is worth using painted figures are seen as disrespecting the culture.

And everyone knows you don't feth with the Culture.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Fun though it is to meet up with fellow enthusiasts and drink beer, things have got off topic so I will close the thread.

You didn't close the thread.

Got it back on track though.

The reason why a lot of people dislike unpainted armies is because for most wargamers wargaming is playing tabletop games with painted models.

The long standing culture is to use painted armies. Players who don't think it is worth using painted figures are seen as disrespecting the culture.

And everyone knows you don't feth with the Culture.

I get that perspective, but honestly some others have brought up the good point of a lot of people not having the time due to real life obligations. I feel they shouldn't be shunned upon because they are still showing up, playing games hopefully respectfully and giving someone else the time in their day for a game. For me the hobby is so multifaceted that I don't think you're out of the culture having unpainted models, after all they're still wargaming and in my humble opinion that's what it's all about!

kb305 wrote:

 Krellnus wrote:

 Mark1130 wrote:
Im one of those A-Holes who will not play against an unpainted army. Nor will I play with a unpainted miniature. Im sorry and mean no disrespect.

I spent 1000's of hours and money on my armies, and only want to pit it against other armies of it's caliber. I play against painted armies because it tells me one, that player is into the game and adores it as much as me. Second, it really helps my imagination really run wild when I'm fighting painted armies.

Sorry to be the Jerk, but there is to much awesome to be had playing and competing against painted armies.

And what if someone cannot paint without physical pain and doesn't have the money to afford the army AND a commission?

sell off your unused stuff, save money by hunting for deals on minis and/or buying from the cheapest online discounters you can find and buy less crap. eventually you should be able to save up enough to get some commission.

but then putting up ebay listing or hunting for deals is also probably too much effort for the nonpainters.

So basically he's not lazy scum, he's poor scum?

I'm out.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The reason why a lot of people dislike unpainted armies is because for most wargamers wargaming is playing tabletop games with painted models.

The long standing culture is to use painted armies.

Exactly. That's just the simple truth of the matter and why it will always come down to that.

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
I get that perspective, but honestly some others have brought up the good point of a lot of people not having the time due to real life obligations. I feel they shouldn't be shunned upon because they are still showing up, playing games hopefully respectfully and giving someone else the time in their day for a game. For me the hobby is so multifaceted that I don't think you're out of the culture having unpainted models, after all they're still wargaming and in my humble opinion that's what it's all about!

And yet, you still don't get that there's a distinction between the people who have difficulty finding the time and the people Kilkrazy is referring to, namely;

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Players who don't think it is worth using painted figures.

Having your own, differing opinion on something does not automatically equate to shunning the other player. Seriously, count up how many posters said they would still battle grey armies, despite not wanting to, versus posters who said they would flat out deny games against grey armies. Furthermore, out of the latter, count up how many of those state it's down to their own personal standards to which they hold themselves, versus those who state it's down to judgements made about the owner of the grey army. I think you will find the results interesting in light of the over-reactionary, hyper-defensive outbursts that they have been met with.

 Krellnus wrote:
So basically he's not lazy scum, he's poor scum?

^Case in point.

I'm out.

Thank goodness for that, the weight of that chip on your shoulder was giving everybody a back ache.

I have to say that I've never been in a position where I couldn't form a narrative because of unpainted models but then I've never been one who did that :/ I just played a strategy game where this thing did this and that thing did that. I don’t think I've ever cared so long as the "things" were the right size for what they do (hell I've had a mate proxy 4 battery packs as land raiders before) and after the game I always coo over a well painted mini but it has no impact on me during games though that being said it’s cool if I’m facing a painted army as it looks pretty (then again I’ve faced armies where them being unpainted would have been preferable)

I've never understood people who get pissy because they can't "forge a narrative" from unpainted minis. Hell can't even understand why people who spent ages painting an army get upset when a bunch of legs on bases table them. It just means that they played better/ had a better list than you did. That’s all it really comes down to. The outcome would have been the same no matter what your opponent was using as those units

I always try to paint my armies as I enjoy how they look when I’m done. But the way I see it, if you’re frustrated that I have the nerve to show up with an unpainted army when you spent ages painting your own army, you really need to consider just who you were painting your army for……

 DPBellathrom wrote:
I have to say that I've never been in a position where I couldn't form a narrative because of unpainted models but then I've never been one who did that :/ I just played a strategy game where this thing did this and that thing did that. I don’t think I've ever cared so long as the "things" were the right size for what they do (hell I've had a mate proxy 4 battery packs as land raiders before) and after the game I always coo over a well painted mini but it has no impact on me during games though that being said it’s cool if I’m facing a painted army as it looks pretty (then again I’ve faced armies where them being unpainted would have been preferable)

I've never understood people who get pissy because they can't "forge a narrative" from unpainted minis. Hell can't even understand why people who spent ages painting an army get upset when a bunch of legs on bases table them. It just means that they played better/ had a better list than you did. That’s all it really comes down to. The outcome would have been the same no matter what your opponent was using as those units

I always try to paint my armies as I enjoy how they look when I’m done. But the way I see it, if you’re frustrated that I have the nerve to show up with an unpainted army when you spent ages painting your own army, you really need to consider just who you were painting your army for……

/thread


You really hit the nail on the head dude.

Trying to spot the grey/black guardsmen holding the plasma guns in a sea of grey/black can be pretty annoying.

I would rather play a nice gamer with a grey army than an arrogant play with a golden daemon standard one. The game itself is what matters not the presence of some paint. Sometimes I find it worse when you have models that looks like blobs of paint done with a decorating brush instead of a model brush. That stuff offends the eyes, bring on the grey instead.

Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Fun though it is to meet up with fellow enthusiasts and drink beer, things have got off topic so I will close the thread.

You didn't close the thread.

Got it back on track though.

The reason why a lot of people dislike unpainted armies is because for most wargamers wargaming is playing tabletop games with painted models.

The long standing culture is to use painted armies. Players who don't think it is worth using painted figures are seen as disrespecting the culture.

And everyone knows you don't feth with the Culture.

I get that perspective, but honestly some others have brought up the good point of a lot of people not having the time due to real life obligations. I feel they shouldn't be shunned upon because they are still showing up, playing games hopefully respectfully and giving someone else the time in their day for a game. For me the hobby is so multifaceted that I don't think you're out of the culture having unpainted models, after all they're still wargaming and in my humble opinion that's what it's all about!

The core issue is that people who want to play with painted armies do not want to play with unpainted armies, but people who want to play with unpainted armies want to get games by playing with people who want to play with painted armies.

There is a strand of opinion that players of unpainted armies are entitled to be accepted by players of painted armies, due to various explanations such as not having time to paint the figures. Not everyone accepts those arguments, though.

That is the clash of cultures, IMO.

I personally just don't understand the mindset of having no time to paint, yet having the time to dedicate 3-4 hours a week to playing. To me it is simple take a few weeks off playing and paint instead.

Niexist wrote:
I personally just don't understand the mindset of having no time to paint, yet having the time to dedicate 3-4 hours a week to playing. To me it is simple take a few weeks off playing and paint instead.

I mentioned this while ago, the people here are telling us their lives are hard and they have no time to paint but apparently have the time to buy, build, play, and spend hours online talking about it. Nor do they have money to get it commissioned, or any inclination to learn to paint quicker because they have extremely high standards for the models they don't want to paint. Oh and we are jerks if we don't accept that choice

It's Goob-hammer in all its glory.

 Ravenous D wrote:

Niexist wrote:
I personally just don't understand the mindset of having no time to paint, yet having the time to dedicate 3-4 hours a week to playing. To me it is simple take a few weeks off playing and paint instead.

I mentioned this while ago, the people here are telling us their lives are hard and they have no time to paint but apparently have the time to buy, build, play, and spend hours online talking about it. Nor do they have money to get it commissioned, or any inclination to learn to paint quicker because they have extremely high standards for the models they don't want to paint. Oh and we are jerks if we don't accept that choice

It's Goob-hammer in all its glory.

well......you kinda are.....

if someone doesn't have time to paint their army (which isn't necessary to play the game) then they sure as hell shouldn't be refused a game. many people, such as myself, would much rather be playing the game (hell, that's why I play it) than painting the toys that go with it.


between building the army, work, social life and engaging in other hobbies you tend to have little time to get the army painted and if you're not fussed about having a fully painted army then that's gonna be right at the back of your priority list.

saying that someone doesn't have the inclination to speed up their painting because of their high standards for models they don't want to paint is just ignorant. it takes a long time to make a model look good and some of us DO have a really high standard for painting (like myself) so it takes even longer for us to get a painted army. I would much rather field an entire army of grey plastic then field a single model that I'm not happy with. Hell, the wood elf army that I won best painted with at one of the invasion tournies was bad enough as most of my rangers didn't have dotted eyes :/ it was only because of time that I forced myself to run them

commision painting is an option but it's even more expensive and something most people can't afford.

now, personally, if I were to walk into a games club with my half painted army and was refused a game from someone, only because my army wasn't painted, I would instantly assume that they were an elitest jerk. I feel that after buying an army and building it there should be no reason why I shouldn't be allowed to play it.

I guess I'll just never understand the mindset of "I wont enjoy it as much so you have no right to enjoy it at all"

This goes to the root of the issue.

You do not have a right to enjoy a game at someone else's expense.

People who want to play people with painted armies have any obligation to play your unpainted army if they won't enjoy playing.

No-one is stopping you from playing with as many other grey army players as you like.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
This goes to the root of the issue.

You do not have a right to enjoy a game at someone else's expense.

People who want to play people with painted armies have any obligation to play your unpainted army if they won't enjoy playing.

No-one is stopping you from playing with as many other grey army players as you like.

if someone isn't going to enjoy the game full stop then that's fine. If you NEED to play a painted army to enjoy a game of 40K ok, it's an odd mind set to have but fair enough. I'm not going to force you to play a game that you're not going to enjoy. it's the same as if I were to bring a tourny army and you have your fluffy fluff army. I'm gonna stomp all over it, you're not gonna have fun, neither am I so it's best not to play.

but if it's just something that would make it slightly less enjoyable then you have no right to stop someone playing just because everything isn't exactly the way you want it to be.

I love playing against fully painted armies but if a sea of grey shows up, ok it wont be as enjoyable but it'll still be fun. if someone rocks up with an army that they painted with their tounge I'm not gonna say no. my inner painter will be writhing all game but it wont have a huge impact on the game itself and there's a good chance that it'll still be fun

 DPBellathrom wrote:
many people, such as myself, would much rather be playing the game (hell, that's why I play it) than painting the toys that go with it.

And I'd rather go to paint some models than play against your grey plastic army. You are perfectly entitled spend your own time like you wish, but you're not entitled to spent my time like you wish.

 Ravenous D wrote:

Niexist wrote:
I personally just don't understand the mindset of having no time to paint, yet having the time to dedicate 3-4 hours a week to playing. To me it is simple take a few weeks off playing and paint instead.

I mentioned this while ago, the people here are telling us their lives are hard and they have no time to paint but apparently have the time to buy, build, play, and spend hours online talking about it. Nor do they have money to get it commissioned, or any inclination to learn to paint quicker because they have extremely high standards for the models they don't want to paint. Oh and we are jerks if we don't accept that choice

It's Goob-hammer in all its glory.

Having 3-4 hours isn't the same as having say, 10 hours. What a shock! You might have time to play OR to paint, but not both. So if you happen to enjoy playing more than painting, guess which you are more likely to do?

A match will take me 2-3 hours usually. In that time I'd fully paint at most ONE infantry model. Yes, ONE. I am that slow. The infantry miniature that took me the longest was nearly 10 hours. You wouldn't believe it looking at it, but that's how it went. Most detailed HQs take around 6 hours. As it is I have several armies, and only with BT can I field a somewhat properly painted force. Doesn't mean I'm just gonna skip playing with the others for the - more than likely - 2+ years it'll take me to paint everything.

Good thing we don't have people locally that refuse to play against unpainted armies. Still, each to their own, it's not like I'd force someone to play against me. But the whole attitude of "no paint, no play" does seem -worthy to me. Next thing you know one will only accept games against Golden Daemon-level armies and only if the opposing player also offers $50 000 cash bribes.

On that note the thread seems to have reached the end of its natural life.

Until the next time...