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 fishy bob wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Really in the end there is dozens of ways and methods to do your army that fits any lifestyle or work schedule. You either have a "I can attitude" or have the defeatist attitude and come up with all the reasons why you cant.

Its not hard to figure out which one is the better attitude to have.

You're absolutely right, I do fit painting my army in with my lifestyle and my work schedule. That's why it will take me years to complete my army. "I can do it"! I think it shows more determination having an army in progress that you intend to paint properly, rather than spray painting them green and pouring Quick Shade over the top.

Using the "10 minute" method leaves the model in a above average playable table top state, and has the ground work for wet blending if you choose to. Block layering is for suckers and masochists.

The "do-it-like-me-or-do-it-wrong" is strong in this one.

Have you tried block layering compared to airbrushing and washing? If you can do something faster and better why wouldn't you?

Wait.

Nevermind.

Refer to this:

Haha, nice cartoon. I do believe there is too much "You're special just like everyone else" going around in schools these days... hahaha, that's great.

Not sure it fully fits in with the thread, but I lol'd at that. Nice.

Why are there so many personal attacks in this thread? See, the next thread should be... "Why does it make people mad when someone else disagrees with them?" Come on guys, it's a forum for solid debate and there has been some good in this one, let's not devolve into tearing others down, I apologize if I did that in this thread. Let's keep it civil eh?

 Ravenous D wrote:
Wait.

Nevermind.

Refer to this:

I don't see the relevance?

 Ravenous D wrote:
Have you tried block layering compared to airbrushing and washing? If you can do something faster and better why wouldn't you?

Insulting comic aside, I've tried multiple ways to have "fast" paint jobs and dislike my results. That doesn't mean it won't work for someone else, but saying "just do this" as if it's a magic bullet is silly.
Even more so when some people just picking up this game will see what you said and have zero comprehension of what it means.

Have you tried block layering compared to airbrushing and washing? If you can do something faster and better why wouldn't you?

Wait.

Nevermind.

Refer to this:

So wait, your now just telling people that they suck entirely?

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Have you tried block layering compared to airbrushing and washing? If you can do something faster and better why wouldn't you?

Wait.

Nevermind.

Refer to this:

So wait, your now just telling people that they suck entirely?

If so, then there really is no incentive for me to paint my army. I think people would rather play against an unpainted army than the eyesore that is my painting.

 Matt1785 wrote:
Haha, nice cartoon. I do believe there is too much "You're special just like everyone else" going around in schools these days... hahaha, that's great.

Call me crazy but I believe that comic was a satire of that very thought process. Thus defeating the purpose of posting it to prove a point.


To contribute to the discussion. I wonder what makes unpainted minis ruin immersion for some folks. I mean if you have the imagination to do the whole hobby then paint shouldn't really stop you. Curious as I would like to see what some of these individuals armies and boards look like in order for anything less then what they use to break their immersion.

Personally I don't really notice the lack of paint on my opponents army. If I am getting into a game then what exactly each piece looks like has little relevance once my mind takes over. After the game I might reflect on which of my stuff still could use some color though.

 BrotherGecko wrote:

 Matt1785 wrote:
Haha, nice cartoon. I do believe there is too much "You're special just like everyone else" going around in schools these days... hahaha, that's great.

Call me crazy but I believe that comic was a satire of that very thought process. Thus defeating the purpose of posting it to prove a point.


To contribute to the discussion. I wonder what makes unpainted minis ruin immersion for some folks. I mean if you have the imagination to do the whole hobby then paint shouldn't really stop you. Curious as I would like to see what some of these individuals armies and boards look like in order for anything less then what they use to break their immersion.

Personally I don't really notice the lack of paint on my opponents army. If I am getting into a game then what exactly each piece looks like has little relevance once my mind takes over. After the game I might reflect on which of my stuff still could use some color though.

This is actually a great point... Most people who paint don't follow the exact paint scheme that GW has set for us, they use there imagination. If you don't like grey models try utilizing some of that imagination? lol.

I think the large and the thick of it is misery loves company. People get upset when they lose a game with their fully painted army to an unpainted one. They think because THEY put in the time others have to as well. I think that's a silly mind set. Just my two cents.

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
I think the large and the thick of it is misery loves company. People get upset when they lose a game with their fully painted army to an unpainted one.

And I think you're way off the mark, again. First, I'm yet to be convinced that anybody truly gets upset or angry over unpainted minis. Second, I'm almost certain that anybody who does, it'll be precisely because of that issue - being unpainted. Their feelings over winning or losing is another matter entirely. Let's not turn the central issue into something else, again.

You wouldn't see an unpainted army in very many historical based games......well maybe Flames of War games.


Regardless of the game, I'd bet money the more mature or older a player is the higher chance they'll show up with a painted army.

Some Newbs can't or don't know how to paint.

A crapily painted army is more embarrassing than a gray one.

Newbs should be forgiven for their lack of paint. Though I honestly would prefer to play with other acceptable players who have painted armies.

The incredibly well painted minis on the internet, blogs, and in gaming magazines can be very intimidating and an insecure new gamer may fear their clumsy handed attempts and results. The gamer with unpainted minis may also be mentally handicapped or physically clumsy.

I encourage other players to paint, provide positive feedback for painting progress, and let them win battles (joke, I always lose regardless).

If one knows a good gamer with a poorly painted or unpainted army, they should try and spend some time with the other guy and teach them a little confidence and painting technique. Don't be a Grognard.

Worst case scenario, the ADD patient with the hordes of cool unpainted tanks and minis will lose interest and sell their plastic/resin/metal booty for dimes on the dollar.

xoxoxox

Lol mentally handicapped

Guess I'm lazy then since my Farsight Enclave isn't fully painted, even if it's because I'm painting my Vampires atm.

Im one of those A-Holes who will not play against an unpainted army. Nor will I play with a unpainted miniature. Im sorry and mean no disrespect.

I spent 1000's of hours and money on my armies, and only want to pit it against other armies of it's caliber.

I play against painted armies because it tells me one, that player is into the game and adores it as much as me.

Second, it really helps my imagination really run wild when I'm fighting painted armies.

Sorry to be the Jerk, but there is to much awesome to be had playing and competing against painted armies.

 Mark1130 wrote:
Im one of those A-Holes who will not play against an unpainted army. Nor will I play with a unpainted miniature. Im sorry and mean no disrespect.

I spent 1000's of hours and money on my armies, and only want to pit it against other armies of it's caliber. I play against painted armies because it tells me one, that player is into the game and adores it as much as me. Second, it really helps my imagination really run wild when I'm fighting painted armies.

Sorry to be the Jerk, but there is to much awesome to be had playing and competing against painted armies.

And what if someone cannot paint without physical pain and doesn't have the money to afford the army AND a commission?

 Krellnus wrote:

 Mark1130 wrote:
Im one of those A-Holes who will not play against an unpainted army. Nor will I play with a unpainted miniature. Im sorry and mean no disrespect.

I spent 1000's of hours and money on my armies, and only want to pit it against other armies of it's caliber. I play against painted armies because it tells me one, that player is into the game and adores it as much as me. Second, it really helps my imagination really run wild when I'm fighting painted armies.

Sorry to be the Jerk, but there is to much awesome to be had playing and competing against painted armies.

And what if someone cannot paint without physical pain and doesn't have the money to afford the army AND a commission?

I said I was a A-hole not a douch LOL. I would NEVER EVER hold a handicap against them. Id totally play them

 Mark1130 wrote:

 Krellnus wrote:

 Mark1130 wrote:
Im one of those A-Holes who will not play against an unpainted army. Nor will I play with a unpainted miniature. Im sorry and mean no disrespect.

I spent 1000's of hours and money on my armies, and only want to pit it against other armies of it's caliber. I play against painted armies because it tells me one, that player is into the game and adores it as much as me. Second, it really helps my imagination really run wild when I'm fighting painted armies.

Sorry to be the Jerk, but there is to much awesome to be had playing and competing against painted armies.

And what if someone cannot paint without physical pain and doesn't have the money to afford the army AND a commission?

I said I was a A-hole not a douch LOL. I would NEVER EVER hold a handicap against them. Id totally play them

So not painting your models is a lack of committment, unless you have a handicap, in which case its ok?

 Krellnus wrote:

 Mark1130 wrote:

 Krellnus wrote:

 Mark1130 wrote:
Im one of those A-Holes who will not play against an unpainted army. Nor will I play with a unpainted miniature. Im sorry and mean no disrespect.

I spent 1000's of hours and money on my armies, and only want to pit it against other armies of it's caliber. I play against painted armies because it tells me one, that player is into the game and adores it as much as me. Second, it really helps my imagination really run wild when I'm fighting painted armies.

Sorry to be the Jerk, but there is to much awesome to be had playing and competing against painted armies.

And what if someone cannot paint without physical pain and doesn't have the money to afford the army AND a commission?

I said I was a A-hole not a douch LOL. I would NEVER EVER hold a handicap against them. Id totally play them

So not painting your models is a lack of committment, unless you have a handicap, in which case its ok?

I think your a fellow gamer who is just going to pick apart my posts the further we communicate, so lets agree to disagree, shake hands and move on!

 Mark1130 wrote:
I play against painted armies because it tells me one, that player is into the game and adores it as much as me.

You are free to only play against painted armies, but facing a painted army does not mean what you claim here. I've known plenty of people who have fully painted armies in a variety of games and it comes out that they are just completely casual players and don't know the rules much at all. Only reason their armies are painted is because they bought someone else's painted miniatures. I have no fully painted armies right now because I've sold them all off and my time for painting has gotten less and less in recent years, but I've been committed to this game practically since the beginning in the late 80s. Can't tell me I am not "into the game" if I've been doing it for that long even if I have a new army on the table that doesn't have color on it.

This is an example of yet another unsupported assumption around painted armies, though hardly the negative type that most people throw around. Your only evidence is a painted army. What does that evidence prove? Solely that your opponent has a painted army.

Skriker

Personal experience quoted here.

I have never played with an unpainted army. Why? Simply because I was into the building and painting long before I actually started playing so I have always had a buffer of painted units to use while the new shiny is assembled and painted.

I have played against unpainted armies and while I cannot say my favourite battles have been purely against painted armies, I can say all of my least favourite games have been against unpainted armies. That, however, was mainly due to the attitude of the opponent rather than the unpainted army. I'm talking people who despite having had the models for some time still hadn't glued them to the bases or wings to their back. In my experience those types are also more likely to bend rules or indeed just spout crap.

It certainly doesn't make me mad that gamers play with unpainted. Some people want to use their new units straight away and that's fine by me.

 Skriker wrote:

 Mark1130 wrote:
I play against painted armies because it tells me one, that player is into the game and adores it as much as me.

You are free to only play against painted armies, but facing a painted army does not mean what you claim here. I've known plenty of people who have fully painted armies in a variety of games and it comes out that they are just completely casual players and don't know the rules much at all. Only reason their armies are painted is because they bought someone else's painted miniatures. I have no fully painted armies right now because I've sold them all off and my time for painting has gotten less and less in recent years, but I've been committed to this game practically since the beginning in the late 80s. Can't tell me I am not "into the game" if I've been doing it for that long even if I have a new army on the table that doesn't have color on it.

This is an example of yet another unsupported assumption around painted armies, though hardly the negative type that most people throw around. Your only evidence is a painted army. What does that evidence prove? Solely that your opponent has a painted army.

Skriker

Theres truth here. That may be just the gaming culture around you. I never played or meet a casual player with a painted army, never. I have meet, played against quite afew casual, prime armies though.

Guys, what Im saying is my opinion and how I choose to play this game, in the end we all love. Here, where i'm from, 40k players all tend to paint. The very few unpainted armies I have crossed in the 15 years I have been playing, were very casual. I do not in anyway judge or profile a gamer based on a miniature's paint job or lack thereof. I just choose to PLAY....repeat....PLAY against painted armies. Please stop taking my comments out of context.
Just because I don't see it YOUR way does not make me a villain. I only base what I know from experiences I have had. I have played against all types, and very rarely do I turn a game down.

That, however, was mainly due to the attitude of the opponent rather than the unpainted army. I'm talking people who despite having had the models for some time still hadn't glued them to the bases or wings to their back.

Why add this then? We are talking unpainted WYSIWYG models, not people who just play with cardboard or what have you.

I very rarely paint, hate doing it, don't like the way my models come out and I work shifts which leaves me so tired that I struggle to find the motivation in the first place; plus lack of patience. I recently painted a load of Eldar models to a standard which I am just about ok with, but then the motivation went. The most I tend to do is fully paint a few models then spray the rest and that is about as far as I get.

Azza I noticed you got a bruins logo! If you're in the boston area we should play a game sometime!

 Krellnus wrote:

 Mark1130 wrote:
Im one of those A-Holes who will not play against an unpainted army. Nor will I play with a unpainted miniature. Im sorry and mean no disrespect.

I spent 1000's of hours and money on my armies, and only want to pit it against other armies of it's caliber. I play against painted armies because it tells me one, that player is into the game and adores it as much as me. Second, it really helps my imagination really run wild when I'm fighting painted armies.

Sorry to be the Jerk, but there is to much awesome to be had playing and competing against painted armies.

And what if someone cannot paint without physical pain and doesn't have the money to afford the army AND a commission?

sell off your unused stuff, save money by hunting for deals on minis and/or buying from the cheapest online discounters you can find and buy less crap. eventually you should be able to save up enough to get some commission.

but then putting up ebay listing or hunting for deals is also probably too much effort for the nonpainters.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

That, however, was mainly due to the attitude of the opponent rather than the unpainted army. I'm talking people who despite having had the models for some time still hadn't glued them to the bases or wings to their back.

Why add this then? We are talking unpainted WYSIWYG models, not people who just play with cardboard or what have you.

I mentioned it because the player had unpainted WYSIWYG Swooping Hawk Eldar models that were not even glued into slotta bases or had the wings on. The models and the wings were laid out flat on the board.

Who said anything about cardboard?

alphaecho wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

That, however, was mainly due to the attitude of the opponent rather than the unpainted army. I'm talking people who despite having had the models for some time still hadn't glued them to the bases or wings to their back.

Why add this then? We are talking unpainted WYSIWYG models, not people who just play with cardboard or what have you.

I mentioned it because the player had unpainted WYSIWYG Swooping Hawk Eldar models that were not even glued into slotta bases or had the wings on. The models and the wings were laid out flat on the board.

Who said anything about cardboard?

It's been one of the insults being slung around when it comes to unpainted, that not only is it unpainted, your likely just using 'cardboard, unbuilt models' or something like that in a manner to consider those who don't paint in a degenerate manner.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

alphaecho wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

That, however, was mainly due to the attitude of the opponent rather than the unpainted army. I'm talking people who despite having had the models for some time still hadn't glued them to the bases or wings to their back.

Why add this then? We are talking unpainted WYSIWYG models, not people who just play with cardboard or what have you.

I mentioned it because the player had unpainted WYSIWYG Swooping Hawk Eldar models that were not even glued into slotta bases or had the wings on. The models and the wings were laid out flat on the board.

Who said anything about cardboard?

It's been one of the insults being slung around when it comes to unpainted, that not only is it unpainted, your likely just using 'cardboard, unbuilt models' or something like that in a manner to consider those who don't paint in a degenerate manner.

Oh...like Tinboy!

I'm giving up on the tinterwebz...I can't keep up with the memes!

I still giggle at CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT and "All you base are belong to us"

 Mark1130 wrote:

 Skriker wrote:
This is an example of yet another unsupported assumption around painted armies, though hardly the negative type that most people throw around. Your only evidence is a painted army. What does that evidence prove? Solely that your opponent has a painted army.

Skriker

Theres truth here. That may be just the gaming culture around you. I never played or meet a casual player with a painted army, never. I have meet, played against quite afew casual, prime armies though.

Guys, what Im saying is my opinion and how I choose to play this game, in the end we all love. Here, where i'm from, 40k players all tend to paint. The very few unpainted armies I have crossed in the 15 years I have been playing, were very casual. I do not in anyway judge or profile a gamer based on a miniature's paint job or lack thereof. I just choose to PLAY....repeat....PLAY against painted armies. Please stop taking my comments out of context.
Just because I don't see it YOUR way does not make me a villain. I only base what I know from experiences I have had. I have played against all types, and very rarely do I turn a game down.

Notice the laughing orkmoticon at the end of the comments. It means that no one is making you a villain, just pointing out that your experiences are not the only experiences out there. Chill out. This is the internet. If you post an opinion here others will also post their opinions in response to it. That is how it works. Don't want people to comment on what appeals to them then don't post at all. I cut out this piece of your post because it was the only part of it I disagreed with. That is called "quoting" not "taking comments out of context". The former is to highlight why you are replying and the latter implies changing the connotation of the quote in some significant way by removing it from supporting statements. Again, this is how it works. You can demand in bold letters all you want, but people will still say what they want to say about your post. Why you are acting like someone attacked you for how you play when all I did was comment on one small part of your post? You need some thicker skin if you are going to stay around here for long.

Yes this is dependent on local players, but our local experiences are not the end all and be all of existence. Hearing what other players have experienced broadens our own perspective of things. In our earlier Flames of war leagues the rules initially were built with extra points for fully painted armies and votes for best painted, etc. and we had to tweak/modify them because multiple players did zero painting and bought all their models prepainted on ebay. Neither player was as hard core interested in the game or the miniatures hobby as everyone else either. They wanted to play the game from time to time, but didn't want the hassle of the hobby side. No sweat off my back, as it is their hobby to approach as they choose. As a group, them included, we felt they didn't deserve a major bonus of any kind for not doing any work, but instead of just penalizing them, we decresed the significance of painted armies in scoring. So it was the same for everyone. I have also run across people like this in 40k as well. They just wanted to play a game and found buying a bunch of painted minis to allow them to play no different than buying a bunch of magic cards to play. They knew they had no hobby interests so didn't bother. Not even remotely as committed to the "hobby" overall or the game play in particular.

Skriker

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Azza I noticed you got a bruins logo! If you're in the boston area we should play a game sometime!

Note the flag, may be difficult. Though I do have it as a must to go to Boston and see them play.

 Azza007 wrote:

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Azza I noticed you got a bruins logo! If you're in the boston area we should play a game sometime!

Note the flag, may be difficult. Though I do have it as a must to go to Boston and see them play.

Take your army when you do.

Skriker