Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Anfauglir wrote:

BladeSwinga wrote:
In what way, shape, or form is painting strictly required for someone to use their expensive plastic army men? Where is it written that your list of the parameters of the hobby are the game's laws of enjoying 40k? You have all rights to decline a game with someone for any reason, but where do you get the idea that you can tell someone off for having a different approach to the hobby?

So, in what way do they imply that painting is manditory?

Not once, at any point, in any of my posts have I said any of that. Please read carefully all posts in the topic, noting to whom/what they are replying to, in what context(s) the content of those posts were made and, therefore, what has been said (and not said) by another user before making a reply.

In what way is having an assembled, but unpainted army improper?

In the way that they're not being used as intended. Honestly guys, this isn't a hard concept.

I guess you'd never play me, as I haven't gotten around to painting everything yet. But I'll be damned if I field something that isn't assembled. Does it bother you that people don't use "proper" terrain, or don't use a dedicated gaming table or realm of battle tiles? Because that'd be me, too, seeing as there is no FLGS near me. I'm not sure I'd want to play you at any rate, with your attitude.

*shrug* You're making a lot of assumptions based around things you mistakenly think I've said or think. I'm sorry about that, but it's really not my problem.

I finish with; while you may have a notion of what the "proper" way to engage in the hobby is, don't try to force it on others. Especially on the internet. I wouldn't have posted anything had you presented your opinion as an opinion, not an unalterable truth laid down by the Emperor himself. Good day to you.

*another shrug* And once again I'll refer you to my advice at the beginning of this post. Read carefully and don't jump to incorrect conclusions and assumptions before posting a reply. The fact that there is an intended way to behave with the miniatures is not a matter of opinion. I'm sorry that you feel otherwise, and I'm sorry if my discussion with another user has upset you, but it is what it is. Good day to you, too.

 beigeknight wrote:
I think you're expressing your opinion of "proper" as a fact. Which is wrong.

Please see previous posts/above. The models are designed, manufactured, packaged, sold, and intended for DIY assembly and painting... all with the intention that the TT game is played with legally assembled/modelled and painted armies. This is not an opinion.

Pretty sure there is nothing in the rules about "legally assembled/modelled and painted armies". That's just your (and I'm sure many other peoples) preference. Which is by definition an opinion. Please stop stating it as fact.

 beigeknight wrote:

 Anfauglir wrote:

BladeSwinga wrote:
In what way, shape, or form is painting strictly required for someone to use their expensive plastic army men? Where is it written that your list of the parameters of the hobby are the game's laws of enjoying 40k? You have all rights to decline a game with someone for any reason, but where do you get the idea that you can tell someone off for having a different approach to the hobby?

So, in what way do they imply that painting is manditory?

Not once, at any point, in any of my posts have I said any of that. Please read carefully all posts in the topic, noting to whom/what they are replying to, in what context(s) the content of those posts were made and, therefore, what has been said (and not said) by another user before making a reply.

In what way is having an assembled, but unpainted army improper?

In the way that they're not being used as intended. Honestly guys, this isn't a hard concept.

I guess you'd never play me, as I haven't gotten around to painting everything yet. But I'll be damned if I field something that isn't assembled. Does it bother you that people don't use "proper" terrain, or don't use a dedicated gaming table or realm of battle tiles? Because that'd be me, too, seeing as there is no FLGS near me. I'm not sure I'd want to play you at any rate, with your attitude.

*shrug* You're making a lot of assumptions based around things you mistakenly think I've said or think. I'm sorry about that, but it's really not my problem.

I finish with; while you may have a notion of what the "proper" way to engage in the hobby is, don't try to force it on others. Especially on the internet. I wouldn't have posted anything had you presented your opinion as an opinion, not an unalterable truth laid down by the Emperor himself. Good day to you.

*another shrug* And once again I'll refer you to my advice at the beginning of this post. Read carefully and don't jump to incorrect conclusions and assumptions before posting a reply. The fact that there is an intended way to behave with the miniatures is not a matter of opinion. I'm sorry that you feel otherwise, and I'm sorry if my discussion with another user has upset you, but it is what it is. Good day to you, too.

 beigeknight wrote:
I think you're expressing your opinion of "proper" as a fact. Which is wrong.

Please see previous posts/above. The models are designed, manufactured, packaged, sold, and intended for DIY assembly and painting... all with the intention that the TT game is played with legally assembled/modelled and painted armies. This is not an opinion.

Pretty sure there is nothing in the rules about "legally assembled/modelled and painted armies". That's just your (and I'm sure many other peoples) preference. Which is by definition an opinion. Please stop stating it as fact.

Agree 100% !

 beigeknight wrote:
Pretty sure there is nothing in the rules about "legally assembled/modelled and painted armies". That's just your (and I'm sure many other peoples) preference. Which is by definition an opinion. Please stop stating it as fact.

*sigh* Okay... final time. Go and show me where I said anything about it being in the rules. Then, go and find where it says that having properly assembled and painted miniatures is not the intended way in which to play the TT game. Once you have failed to do either of those, let that be the end of it. Thank you.

 Anfauglir wrote:

 beigeknight wrote:
Pretty sure there is nothing in the rules about "legally assembled/modelled and painted armies". That's just your (and I'm sure many other peoples) preference. Which is by definition an opinion. Please stop stating it as fact.

*sigh* Okay... final time. Go and show me where I said anything about it being in the rules. Then, go and find where it says that having properly assembled and painted miniatures is not the intended way in which to play the TT game. Once you have failed to do either of those, let that be the end of it. Thank you.

Your use of the term proper is where your use of words, intentionally or no, implies that there is a factual basis for your opinion being the "right" one. The game does state that complete armies look good, and it is the intention, but it is not the be-all, end-all of how to enjoy the hobby/game.

I certainly don't get upset if someone's army is unpainted. If that's good enough for them why should I care?

But I won't play them. I have no need to. There are plenty of people who do paint their armies, and for me it helps with the immersion into the hobby. If it was just a war game, then none of the miniatures would be required - just a representation. So why not use card cut-outs and fight over a tennis shoe and a beer can? If that satisfies some players, who am I to argue?

It's a matter of consideration. The OP is so concerned about others infringing on his view of the hobby he neglects to consider that his view might just as easily infringe on somebody else's enjoyment of the hobby. If I am going to spend the time to play a game, I'd rather share my time with like-minded individuals that appreciate the hobby in the same regard as I do. If others don't paint their armies, more power to them! But please don't act like there is some moral superiority by playing games with painted or unpainted models. You just have your own preferences as do I.

its still the fact of considering people should HAVE to go that extra mile ( or several as the case may be) that bugs him methinks

None of this bothers me what so ever. I'm just curious why unpainted armies bug OTHER people. lol

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
None of this bothers me what so ever. I'm just curious why unpainted armies bug OTHER people. lol

Because they're doing a disservice to the miniature wargaming hobby?

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
None of this bothers me what so ever. I'm just curious why unpainted armies bug OTHER people. lol

I think it's been covered.

A) It doesn't annoy some at all.

B) Some struggle to get into the spirit and fluff of a 40k battle if one side is grey.

C) A few are annoyed by a perceived lack of effort relative to their own (I painted mine, why didn't he?)

Most people will still play an opponent with an unpainted army, but will find it less fun.

Slightly off-topic, is your army painted (not that it matters)? I'm just wondering what side of the proverbial fence you're standing on.

Unless theres any new units/loadouts i want to try, i stick to using painted models. I'm a fluff gamer at heart. During games I often comment on whats happening on the table from each units perspective.

Scout sgt just killed an Honour guard champion after being assaulted. "Your honour guards are just looking at him and asking each other what the hell happened to the champion"

Marine biker fails dangerous terrain check and armour save.
"Haha his bike's wheels blew up after hitting that piece of rock, and he just impaled himself on that spike right there"

Or any assortment of light hearted comments like those. Its just much easier to get absorbed into the universe when playing full painted armies (not to mention passer-by comments and are curious about the game).

The only guy in my flgs I really hesitate to play is a guy who brings FOTM armies with the most broken lists (and he has all the armies mind you, ask him any bit or unit and he has it). And not any single one of them is painted (slight exageraion, some primed and basecoat at best).

The other guy i always try to get games with plays TAU, even before the codex update. Dont care if he brings painted stuff or not, but we do the whole action play by play which is fun.

orkybenji wrote:
It's like some one in a D&d group who refused to engage in role playing and merely wants to fight and engage in the crunch. It brings it down and ruins the fun.

And if that group enjoys it, who cares? Not all groups are roleplayers and actually do prefer crunch.

So many posts in here reek of elitism over the way they feel the hobby "SHOULD" be played, despite being opinions to the contrary, 'proper' or not.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

So many posts in here reek of elitism over the way they feel the hobby "SHOULD" be played, despite being opinions to the contrary, 'proper' or not.

The minority in the group doesn't get to point at the majority and scream 'elitism'. If anything, its the people who act indignant when defending their unpainted miniatures and using the excuse of participating in the hobby 'their way' that's elitist.

 Happyjew wrote:

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
How can I get into a universe, when half built models keep reminding me I'm playing a board game?

Man, if unpainted models takes away from the "feel", I'd hate to think what open bottles of beer would do to the universe...

Improve it, greatly!

Especially if its a really good beer

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
None of this bothers me what so ever. I'm just curious why unpainted armies bug OTHER people. lol

Because they look like gak, and you seem to be having an inordinate amount of trouble trying to wrap your head around why people in general would prefer to play against a less gakky looking set of models.

If I have choice, and given the emphasis on visual representation in this hobby for the table and anything on it, I would rather have a cool looking army across from mine, but I'm not bugged by it - I play against models without a lick of paint on them all the time, I'd just rather play against someone who took the time to paint their models because that makes the whole game look better.

 Anfauglir wrote:

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
There's no rules in a hobby...

I didn't say it was a rule, I said it was the proper way to play. Because it is.

I could give a rats ass if my opponents stuff is painted. It affects me in no way shape or form.

Okay. That's fine, more power to you. You can only speak for yourself, however. Does it make me mad or refuse a game when someone pulls out an unpainted army? No, it doesn't. Does it affect the quality of the game/immersion in the hobby? Yes, most definitely.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Its not unpainted models in general, but its what they can connote. Say you could be a flavour of the month player, new army comes out, you buy the most abuse able army available then once the meta has changed to meet the new army, you sell yours on ebay (You get a better deal if you leave models unpainted) and get your next army. Or maybe because some people play for the spirit of the game, and having my lovingly painted wood elves being wailed on by new High elves when most of them are simply legs and torsos is fairly disheartening and not in MY spirit of the game. If someone is genuinely busy, or its a new army, then I'd gladly play them and say no more about it. But if its a years old army, then I'd much prefer playing against a painted army (not even well painted, it doesn't take much to get them to 'table top' standard) then an unpainted/unassembled army because it helps me get into the feeling more. How can I get into a universe, when half built models keep reminding me I'm playing a board game?

Exactly.

this x OVER 9000

I'd just rather play against someone who took the time to paint their models because that makes the whole game look better.

What if the opposing army is mono color , like most marines or necron ?What difference is there between a grey plastic army and a full metalic necron or black painted marines with visors painted in green , which you won't see anyway .

The rules don't say armies have to be painted , painted or not has no influence on the gaming aspect , unless someone plays in tournaments with a paint score . Not everyone lives in places where getting enough space to paint is easy. If someone wants to sell his army in some time , then an unpainted one sells easier and a bad painted one sells cheaper then an unpainted one , so if your not realy good at painting your destroying them by trying. It takes up time not everyone has . Offten it is hard enough to find time for stuff you want to do like gaming , wasting the time on something you don't like and don't want to do , just that others can see your 120 IG models from the other side of the table , would be stupid. Paints , brushs cost cash one could spend on more models and models let you play games , can open up the possibility to have different builds . paints and brushes , if your not in to painting , add nothing to the gaming aspect of w40k.

There seem to be a lot of people making excuses in here for not having painted armies and then telling people who like playing against painted armies that they are horrible human beings

What a great and productive thread you've created Dalymiddleboro.

Time to go back to raging at the unpainted models in my EX-opponent's army that offend my elitist neckbeard sensitivities.

Jesus christ, this thread devolved quickly. In fairness to Dailymiddleboro, I don't think he's responsible for the downward spiral. There's a lot of opinion being slung around as immutable, bully pulpit fact in this thread (on both sides of the particular debate).


So from what i see there are three camps.

1) People who don't care one way or the other, but have a tepid preference for painted, sure, if they absolutely have to answer the question.

2) People that insist on painting models, and that by playing a non painted army, their opponent is passively impacting their enjoyment of the game.

3) People that do that feel that painting is necessary, nor an active contributor to the game.



Whatever camp you fall in, the other two are elitist neckbeard shut-in nerds living in their mom's basement with cheeto stained fingers, and couldn't possibly have a point in their side of the debate if we'd all just take the time to read for a minute. Got it.

I will say this much.

The Warhammer hobby is composed of 3 different aspects:
Building, Painting, Playing.

Some people enjoy all 3. Others only enjoy one or 2 parts.
For example, I enjoy building and playing, but dislike painting, where as my friend *hates* building the models, but finds painting them to be relaxing.

Personally, I have no preference whether or not an army is painted. But it should at least be assembled (models that have lost an arm or head is one thing, models that are ust a chest and legs or just legs on a base is something completely different. It's why my shiny new Wraithknight has yet to see the tabletop.).

 raiden wrote:
well, you could be reallyyy bad at painting, collect them for different reasons, or just not like painting? maybe they want to play the game, and involve themselves, but loath painting the small things. Why should they have to take hours out of their lives just to satisfy your "immersion?"

They don't have to do that, and I don't have to take hours out of my life to play against them.

I like painted army's, but I would not hold it against my opponent, if they did not have painted minis, mainly because I know painting is very time consuming and sometimes real-life needs to be prioritized over the hobby.

For example whilst I do like painting, I am also currently studying for my college subjects, which has held me back on painting my army, as I prioritize real-life over my hobby as I find it more important therefore I can understand if my opponent does not have a painted army.

That being said, its always a nice bonus to be facing a fully painted army, and if I know someone just bought a netlist and has not painted any of it, and the force was unpainted, that right there would grind my gears to the degree where oil and grease simply wouldn't cut it .

I will, in general, play any opponent I can. I don't get games in as often as I'd like, so if there's one going then I'm in, regardless of whether or not models/terrain are/is painted. The only time I'll refuse a game is if I'm playing someone who deliberately breaks the rules for advantage.

I myself make a point of only using painted models, (in some cases I'll allow myself one unpainted squad if it's reasonably new) as I enjoy painting and, for me, seeing painted models on the table is the reward for the hours spent labouring on them. I do enjoy playing against painted model more than grey plastic, simply because it adds to the 'feel' of the game. but as said above, I would never be so presumptuous as to refuse a game based on quality of painting.

BrianDavion wrote:
from a pratical standpoint painting also allows easier reckongization of whose minis are what. even when they're painted up in the same paint scheme you can useally tell whose minis are whose.

Case in point, my last game was my ultramarines against someone else's space marines, likewise painted ultramarines. our style was slightly differnt so we could easily tell whose where whose (I used a darker blue)

This is a good point. Last game I was at the other table had some un-painted stuff on each side a there was confusion because of it, and some models went "missing". A lot harder for that kind of thing to happen with painted models.

I like playing against a painted army but happy to not. Plus painted can cover alot of things - there are very varying levels of skill and results................

I pay people to paint mine as I am very bad at it, don't enjoy and I can afford it - I am sure some people will consider that I am doing my hobby "wrong" but feth them.

Same with proxies and stand ins as long as they are in keeping and recognisable / pointed out - its all good. Unless of course like a local player they are using proxies as they gain actual in game advantage due to base / model size.......

 Anfauglir wrote:

 beigeknight wrote:
Pretty sure there is nothing in the rules about "legally assembled/modelled and painted armies". That's just your (and I'm sure many other peoples) preference. Which is by definition an opinion. Please stop stating it as fact.

*sigh* Okay... final time. Go and show me where I said anything about it being in the rules. Then, go and find where it says that having properly assembled and painted miniatures is not the intended way in which to play the TT game. Once you have failed to do either of those, let that be the end of it. Thank you.

You didn't. And it doesn't. What you are doing is pressing you opinion of "proper way to play" when there technically is none. Its possible to play with unpainted/armless/silly proxies and still have fun with the game. Which I believe something to the effect of "have fun" is actually in the rulebook, so I suppose that would be the "proper" way to play the game. Having fun.

I prefer the modeling side of the hobby over gaming anyway which in some people's book prob makes me as bad as the non painters.

The models are that expensive I can't understand buying them if you don't paint them you may as well use bits of paper with the units written on them. But I really couldn't care it dosnt annoy me in the slightest. Whatever aspect of the hobby people like to focus on then I think that a ok with me.

I can say, without shame, that my wonderfully painted Wood Elves and menacing Dark Eldar where not painted by me. What would happen is I would buy new models and do the 'grunt' work, gluing, building, first few coats and some simple highlights to make the models 'table top worthy'. This is where I would expect people to bring there models up to, it takes very little skill and time to get them to the standard where you can look from across the table and be able to distinguish important parts of the model. When they get to this stage I will play with them, not before. Then they go on my dads long production line for his finishing process, and slowly but surely each unit gets take out for painting. I don't know what my dad does to make my base line into the great colours he does, but he wouldn't do any painting at all if I didn't get him to that stage. He wants to look at a finished batch and think 'Wow' which you simply can't do when they are 'simply' table top worthy.

See, that's the extra mile. The difference between having painted models and owning painted models is to be proud of your army when it comes together. Not everyone wants that, not everyone who wants that has the time but everyone, I mean everyone, is of the capacity to get to table top worthy standards. Why does gamesworkshop (Mine at least) let you play in store? Because its free advertisement to show well painted models to get people into the game. Our Gamesworkshop tolerates non-painted models for a while, but if they are left to long the manager may 'suggest' that they get painted up, because strangely grey models don't attract as much attention as vibrant models. Its about preference, but i'd much prefer to play an army that is at lest table top worthy then a bunch of grey models, it makes the game more enjoyable for me. Why would I want to play an army that diminishes the fun for me, when I could play an army that is a joy to look at?

If you don't even try to make the effort to paint then you're in the wrong hobby. Go play Magic. War gaming is a gentleman's affair.

 Las wrote:
If you don't even try to make the effort to paint then you're in the wrong hobby. Go play Magic. War gaming is a gentleman's affair.

What a narrow minded view - who made you god?