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 beigeknight wrote:
You didn't. And it doesn't.

Right... so why are we having this discussion?

What you are doing is pressing you opinion of "proper way to play" when there technically is none.

No, what I'm doing is stating that if you buy miniatures which are supposed to be painted as much as they are supposed to be battled with, and you choose not to paint them, they're not being used as intended, i.e. improperly. This is not an opinion, it is simply the way it is. I really can't make it any simpler than that. Sorry.

Its possible to play with unpainted/armless/silly proxies and still have fun with the game. Which I believe something to the effect of "have fun" is actually in the rulebook, so I suppose that would be the "proper" way to play the game. Having fun.

And here is where you're going wrong... you know that thing about comprehansion I talked about with the other poster? Well, the same applies to you. Read and understand what I'm saying, and therefore you will stop making incorrect jumps like the above. Or, if you really need me to spell it out to you: saying there is a proper way to use the miniatures is not the same as saying there is only one way to use them, or that there are rules or laws when it comes to painted vs unpainted, or any of the other crap that you and others are extrapolating from my posts that simply isn't there.

I'm just a purist. This acceptance of unpainted models is a halmark of 40k and it stems from the ideology of the "GW hobby" as being outside the larger wargaming culture. You simply do not find unpainted armies in historical war gaming. Have some respect for your armies and the hobby.




Note: I don't even really like painting.

I play with models painted by others (or badly by myself) - is that "allowed"

I don't care what you do, that's just how I view unpainted armies and the people who field them.

I'll still play against grey minis, I'll just feel vastly superior to you the entire time and let that mitigate the disappointment of having to look at them.

I look at it sort of like going to dinner in a very nice restaurant. Maybe they won't toss you out for showing up with a baseball cap, t-shirt and sandals on, but it definitely shows a complete lack of respect to the rest of the people dining there who dressed appropriately to the environment. If that's who you are, fine, you are certainly entitled to be "that guy", and it may bother some folks more then others.

I'd much rather play against a well painted army, way more fun for me.

 infinite_array wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

So many posts in here reek of elitism over the way they feel the hobby "SHOULD" be played, despite being opinions to the contrary, 'proper' or not.

The minority in the group doesn't get to point at the majority and scream 'elitism'. If anything, its the people who act indignant when defending their unpainted miniatures and using the excuse of participating in the hobby 'their way' that's elitist.

Yes because when being told they shouldn't be playing at all in their hobby they should sit quietly and take it.

Because that certainly is far more elitist to defend oneself when being told "You aren't playing it this hobby the way I FEEL you should be playing it, thus you are scum and don't deserve to play thisgame."

"Using the excuse of participating their way?" There is no defined standard on how to enjoy this hobby.

This thread rules just for the fact that people are reading so much into everyone else's posts. Come on people, really? Is there some body language you can see from written text that is making you think people are saying...

"You are scum and don't deserve to play this game." Did ANYONE actually post that? No... (Las came close, but I think that's just sarcasm)

It's really just one side bashing the other, gosh it's like Washington DC in this thread.

 Matt1785 wrote:
This thread rules just for the fact that people are reading so much into everyone else's posts. Come on people, really? Is there some body language you can see from written text that is making you think people are saying...

"You are scum and don't deserve to play this game." Did ANYONE actually post that? No... (Las came close, but I think that's just sarcasm)

It's really just one side bashing the other, gosh it's like Washington DC in this thread.

This is the standard, socially accepted, "proper" or "normal" way to play games of WHFB/40K etc. This is not up for debate, it's simply the way it is. Period.

Somewhat comes close, seeing as anyone who doesn't paint is suddenly "Not normal"

Yeah neither side will back down to be honest, it's not like one side is going to suddenly be convinced that the other side is going to be right. Even if I am guilty of doing the same thing.

 Matt1785 wrote:
This thread rules just for the fact that people are reading so much into everyone else's posts. Come on people, really? Is there some body language you can see from written text that is making you think people are saying...

"You are scum and don't deserve to play this game." Did ANYONE actually post that? No... (Las came close, but I think that's just sarcasm)

It's really just one side bashing the other, gosh it's like Washington DC in this thread.

Ha, yeah. But I do genuinely feel that it's a habit that degrades the hobby.

There is one other side of this that hasn't been explored. I would imagine we all would like the hobby to flourish so that we have a decent sized community to game with. If somebody with no clue walks into a club or store and sees a battle going on with nicely painted models, it's far more likely to get them interested then a battle with half assembled grey models.

anchorbine wrote:
There is one other side of this that hasn't been explored. I would imagine we all would like the hobby to flourish so that we have a decent sized community to game with. If somebody with no clue walks into a club or store and sees a battle going on with nicely painted models, it's far more likely to get them interested then a battle with half assembled grey models.

Been there, done that Bit mine was in the middle of a text wall, and by the looks of things here, people don't like to read entire posts making snap judgements

The sense of satisfaction when seeing a squad of fully models on a nice bored is worth the time and effort! I don't understand why people wouldnt bother painting them. None of my buddies field grey miniatures, unless theres a valid reason I personally find it lazy!

I dont mind either way, its better to play against a nicely painted army, you can get some banter going about different painting styles etc. I would not say I wouldn't play someone though because their army isn't painted.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Matt1785 wrote:
This thread rules just for the fact that people are reading so much into everyone else's posts. Come on people, really? Is there some body language you can see from written text that is making you think people are saying...

"You are scum and don't deserve to play this game." Did ANYONE actually post that? No... (Las came close, but I think that's just sarcasm)

It's really just one side bashing the other, gosh it's like Washington DC in this thread.

This is the standard, socially accepted, "proper" or "normal" way to play games of WHFB/40K etc. This is not up for debate, it's simply the way it is. Period.

Somewhat comes close, seeing as anyone who doesn't paint is suddenly "Not normal"

Yeah, this is exactly what Matt is referring to. Honestly, I'm shocked that your previous posts are/were directed at mine. Yours is the worst example yet at taking what I've posted and mutating it completely into something else. Well done. I'm done at teaching others basic reading comprehension, however. It's done more than enough to derail the topic already. I tell the TC that GW minis are supposed to be painted as well as battled with... and suddenly I'm calling other people scum? How can I even begin to have a discussion with others who display such disregard for proper written communication?

 Anfauglir wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Matt1785 wrote:
This thread rules just for the fact that people are reading so much into everyone else's posts. Come on people, really? Is there some body language you can see from written text that is making you think people are saying...

"You are scum and don't deserve to play this game." Did ANYONE actually post that? No... (Las came close, but I think that's just sarcasm)

It's really just one side bashing the other, gosh it's like Washington DC in this thread.

This is the standard, socially accepted, "proper" or "normal" way to play games of WHFB/40K etc. This is not up for debate, it's simply the way it is. Period.

Somewhat comes close, seeing as anyone who doesn't paint is suddenly "Not normal"

Yeah, this is exactly what Matt is referring to. Honestly, I'm shocked that your previous posts are/were directed at mine. Yours is the worst example yet at taking what I've posted and mutating it completely into something else. Well done. I'm done at teaching others basic reading comprehension, however. It's done more than enough to derail the topic already. I tell the TC that GW minis are supposed to be painted as well as battled with... and suddenly I'm calling other people scum? How can I even begin to have a discussion with others who display such disregard for proper written communication?

Actually my previous posts weren't, however there are many ways one can define "Normal" and from previous topics have used it as an excuse to trash on players who don't.

I am sorry for targeting you specifically, but I suppose I have been in this issue far to much with insults being slung because people somehow enjoyed the hobby in a way they didn't and I lashed out unnecessarily.

These threads always rule so hard.

Regardless of whether you enjoy painting or not, its a fairly large part of the hobby, its nice to see painted models, even nicer to see well painted ones. I don't even understand or comprehend why you would spend the ungodly amounts of money on warhammer when you don't want to paint them or even assemble them.

mitch_rifle wrote:
Regardless of whether you enjoy painting or not, its a fairly large part of the hobby, its nice to see painted models, even nicer to see well painted ones. I don't even understand or comprehend why you would spend the ungodly amounts of money on warhammer when you don't want to paint them or even assemble them.

I agree on assembly. Painting...not so much. If I didn't work so many hours a week (and had more money to buy the necessary supplies), I would paint my army. It wouldn't look good (initially) and I realise that...but hey.

I don't think anyone is particularly bothered if someone can paint well or not, just that some people choose not to put any effort or time into painting, if you don't have the time, or are not very skilled at painting fair enough.

If you dont want/have time to paint or make cool models you could just go play chess with a 20 $ chess set. That game has nicely made pieces waiting for you and the rules are easy to figure out.

Chess is a fair game with good rules, nice pieces, and economical for the guy who needs his strategy fix.

Warhammer isn't really fair, it's rules are written badly, and is meant for people to play some kind of game with nicely crafted models. If you show up to a game with gray models you are immediately putting off a vibe that says you are in this game for some reason that isnt finely crafted models. It also immediatly makes this game uglier then the 20 dollar chess game.

Strategy game? Competitive chess, checkers.
Need an expensive strategy game with a new flavor every other month? Play Magic the Gathering standard bracket.
No time to paint? Buy board/card games
Need a story? Play Dungeons and Dragons

Like painting models? Play 40k

This thread pretty much sums up the problem with the wargaming community.

If someone doesn't want to paint their wardollies, but you want to paint your wardollies, then hey, guess what? You're just being different people. If someone doesn't paint their models and you don't like it? Don't play against them.

Same with people who enjoy the hobby in different ways. Know someone who min-maxes their army lists for the most competitive efficiency they can get, and don't like that kind of gamer? Don't play them. Someone has a My Little Pony army and you think it's just too silly? Don't play them. Someone has an army painted to the bare minumim for a tournament (3 colours/wash) and you think it looks lazy and ruins your immersion? Don't play then. Someone has an unpained army and it ruins your immersion? If you answer anything but 'don't play them' you're simply making an issue out of nothing.

 Anfauglir wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Matt1785 wrote:
This thread rules just for the fact that people are reading so much into everyone else's posts. Come on people, really? Is there some body language you can see from written text that is making you think people are saying...

"You are scum and don't deserve to play this game." Did ANYONE actually post that? No... (Las came close, but I think that's just sarcasm)

It's really just one side bashing the other, gosh it's like Washington DC in this thread.

This is the standard, socially accepted, "proper" or "normal" way to play games of WHFB/40K etc. This is not up for debate, it's simply the way it is. Period.

Somewhat comes close, seeing as anyone who doesn't paint is suddenly "Not normal"

Yeah, this is exactly what Matt is referring to. Honestly, I'm shocked that your previous posts are/were directed at mine. Yours is the worst example yet at taking what I've posted and mutating it completely into something else. Well done. I'm done at teaching others basic reading comprehension, however. It's done more than enough to derail the topic already. I tell the TC that GW minis are supposed to be painted as well as battled with... and suddenly I'm calling other people scum? How can I even begin to have a discussion with others who display such disregard for proper written communication?

How is telling someone that their preferred way to enjoy their hobby is not "socially accepted ... not up for debate ... Period." polite?
If you had left out those two words there'd by no issue with your posts. And yes, I read them all in context - but saying it's not socially accepted is absolutely false. It might not be in your specific area, but other posters have demonstrated that your statement isn't true. And then you act all offended when you're called on your absolute statement being incorrect.

FWIW I really dislike painting, but my Nids are painted (well, except the gants I use for spawning) because they needed to be for a tournament I entered.

I play with quite a few opponents who play painted only, and that's how I roll as well. Gray miniatures look awful - you'd almost be better off playing with action figures, at least they have a paint job. I understand that some people don't have time to complete their armies, but I feel a lot of people buy more than they ever intend upon completing. If you have time for TV, you have time to paint - they can both be done at the same time.

As exciting as a painted army is to see upon the battlefield, an unpainted army is equally unexciting.

 Thokt wrote:
If you have time for TV, you have time to paint - they can both be done at the same time.

They really can't in all cases. 90% of my TV watching happens in bed. I'm pretty sure my wife would kick me out of bed if I brought my paints in.

Paint your army instead of watching then.

 Las wrote:
Paint your army instead of watching then.

Or, how about you not dictate my enjoyment of my hobby and I won't dictate yours?
In case you missed it, I said my Nids were painted.

This is why i thought heroclix was going to be fun since i wouldnt have to do any painting when i first wanted to try wargaming. Didnt enjoy it, 40k fluff appealed to me more.

So i just bit the bullet and painted my AOBR marines with a really bad paint job. Got a little better over time and even if I wont be winnIng awards, im quite happy with my work. But that's because i dedicated some time for it, which is not always the case for everyone. So when I play against a painted army, i know this guy is dedicated to the hobby.

Now for people who say they wont play unpainted armies, i wouldnt begrudge them that. If they want prefer to play with people who has taken the time to paint (or money to pay a painter) its their choice. Then again i've yet to meet someone who is like that in our gaming circle.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Las wrote:
Paint your army instead of watching then.

Or, how about you not dictate my enjoyment of my hobby and I won't dictate yours?
In case you missed it, I said my Nids were painted.

I wasn't. You were talking about how you didn't have the ability to paint while watching TV so I offered an alternative.

 Las wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Las wrote:
Paint your army instead of watching then.

Or, how about you not dictate my enjoyment of my hobby and I won't dictate yours?
In case you missed it, I said my Nids were painted.

I wasn't. You were talking about how you didn't have the ability to paint while watching TV so I offered an alternative.

No, I was talking about the statement that they can be done at the same time being incorrect. Sometimes they can, but not always.

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Who cares? It's a HOBBY, do w/e you want and get w/e you want out of it. There's no set way to go about this... I just don't understand why people let it emotionally affect them when it's not their army or their models lol.

1. Because it shows laziness, like typing w/e for whatever.
2. You can't have fun if it isn't the same fun I'm having, obviously! Stop having fun wrongly!
3. Chicks like painted miniatures. FACT!
4. Something about serious business or something.