Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Niexist wrote:So basically your whole premise for not painting your army is resale value? As I said above, if you're so worried about a return on your investment maybe you need a savings account with a decent interest rate instead of miniatures.

Personally I like to think I'm creating something of value to myself, rather than something to sell.

Then I have this grand idea for you kiddo. Take that opinion, use it to make yourself happy, and keep it to yourself because you're the only one it matters to.

Not painting an army because you might want to offload it later isn't an investment. It's just cost-offsetting and loss mitigation. It's not about ROI. Stop using terms you overhead a first year business major talking about in the lunch court.

 sing your life wrote:
Becuase it's more fun to play agianst a good looking army than a few lumps of plastic.

This.

I'm 'in' this hobby because of the painting/modelling side. If you don't paint your minis; be my guest, but I prefer games against armies that are fully painted, or in the progress of being painted.

Niexist wrote:


So basically your whole premise for not painting your army is resale value? As I said above, if you're so worried about a return on your investment maybe you need a savings account with a decent interest rate instead of miniatures.

Personally I like to think I'm creating something of value to myself, rather than something to sell.

Well if you are rich enough to do that it is awesome . Most people here either have to stick to an army which is always good or have to sell their old army to start a new one or switch systems .

I also don't understand the value part. You think that an army that plays well has no value to me , just because it is painted? If it wins and lets me get stuff like tournament prizes or good time gaming , then it has a huge value to me. A master class painted army that sucks has non . Not only it is harder too sell , but I won't have fun time playing it .

Niexist wrote:
I love how you guys know no middle ground, it's either fully painted or grey plastic. Nah, you couldn't just paint your metallics, and major color areas. It's either fully painted, or grey to you guys who are complaining about having a job/family.

Not complaining about having a job or family, I like having a job and a family [well I like having money and I like the 'benefits' of having a wife! ] I also like painting, I find it relaxing and satisfying to see the end results of all of my hard work. So no, I won't quickly slap on some paint. I'll take my time and give the toy soldiers I spent a shedload of money on the best paintjob I can [which isn't very good, but it's the best I can do]. You're right, for me there's no middle ground, and thinking about it I think I'd rather play an unpainted/in progress army than a really badly fully painted one.

 Happyjew wrote:

VensersRevenge wrote:

Makumba wrote:
Nah w40k is all about reading books , writing 100pages fluff for your army , master class converting or painting and singing old english poems as a narrative to your games.

Old English poems? Amateur. I write my fluff in cuneiform and recite whole epics about each shooting and assault phase

You write them down? Ha! I force my models to remember them and recite them during every game.

Well, if they are reciting the battle reports who is supposed to sing my praises in Klingon and Elvish?

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

Niexist wrote:So basically your whole premise for not painting your army is resale value? As I said above, if you're so worried about a return on your investment maybe you need a savings account with a decent interest rate instead of miniatures.

Personally I like to think I'm creating something of value to myself, rather than something to sell.

Then I have this grand idea for you kiddo. Take that opinion, use it to make yourself happy, and keep it to yourself because you're the only one it matters to.

Not painting an army because you might want to offload it later isn't an investment. It's just cost-offsetting and loss mitigation. It's not about ROI. Stop using terms you overhead a first year business major talking about in the lunch court.

You could just buy paint stripper.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

Niexist wrote:So basically your whole premise for not painting your army is resale value? As I said above, if you're so worried about a return on your investment maybe you need a savings account with a decent interest rate instead of miniatures.

Personally I like to think I'm creating something of value to myself, rather than something to sell.

Then I have this grand idea for you kiddo. Take that opinion, use it to make yourself happy, and keep it to yourself because you're the only one it matters to.

Not painting an army because you might want to offload it later isn't an investment. It's just cost-offsetting and loss mitigation. It's not about ROI. Stop using terms you overhead a first year business major talking about in the lunch court.

I see why half of this forum has you on ignore, add one more to the list!

Ignorance is bliss. Must be fun living in a bubble where everyone agrees with you.

i dont know why people get angry over it but honestly that is their own choice
i for one hate the painting aspect but i will not play a game before my entire force is painted
it goes slowly very slowly painting an ork horde list isnt my idea of fun its just worth it to see my army painted and ready to fight

well up untill so A-hole comes and tells me how gakky my painting is and that i should redo the whole thing

atlervetok wrote:
i dont know why people get angry over it but honestly that is their own choice
i for one hate the painting aspect but i will not play a game before my entire force is painted
it goes slowly very slowly painting an ork horde list isnt my idea of fun its just worth it to see my army painted and ready to fight

well up untill so A-hole comes and tells me how gakky my painting is and that i should redo the whole thing

I always try to compliment peoples paint job, and would never insult someone that I had met that took the time to paint their models. I am new to the hobby, but pretty much everyone at the game store I go to plays with painted models.

I don't get angry over it, but to me resale value isn't a legitmate reason. It's like buying a washer and dryer, but keeping them in a box and going to the laundromat, because someday you'd like to sell it as brand new. Or I guess a closer analogy would be people who collect toys as children, and don't open them/play with them so they'll be worth more.

Honestly I have to admit that I got a little upset over this very issue this Saturday at a local tournament. Just a lot of issues really made the entire event a terrible day for me. But I went against this one guy, whom I've gone against the first round the last 4 tournaments in a row I believe, and he had unassembled models that he used the last four tournaments. Simple things I didn't mind, like most of his assault marines missing heads. What bothered me really was his chapter master was just a bike model with no torso that was equipped with a stormshield and his bike squad fitted with plasma guns that were now grav weapons. Really though it was more the modeling aspect than the painting issue. I do see where people are coming from though. This was a very friendly tournament but still he put so little effort into getting his models ready that it was kind of irritating. My friend for example spent a lot of time just converting grav guns and getting everything primed and base coated just for the tournament so there wouldn't be confusion when it came to wargear. Another issue was using a storm raven without weapons attached. It's really hard to figure out the 45degree arc on a phantom melta gun!

In all fairness he gave me a copy of his list before the game started, but this guy does take a while for his turns and our game got stopped after his turn 4 but before I could even pull my troops in. If he would have had a fully modeled army at the least I wouldn't need to keep looking over his list while the clock was ticking. I really don't think he did it intentionally, but losing a turn on an objective mission really blows.

Really though if it was outside a tournament setting and the other events of that day weren't so bad then I wouldn't have made it an issue for me. Poorly laid out terrain on the tables, only a 6 man showing with a player quiting after the first game and a second after the 2nd round (double 1's on the deamon chart is apparently bad on turn one), and the canceling of the third round because the guy with the bodyless chapter master took 3 hours for his 2nd round. This ended up with me only playing one game, getting a buy, and then wasting the day waiting for the third round that never happened.

Really in the end there is dozens of ways and methods to do your army that fits any lifestyle or work schedule. You either have a "I can attitude" or have the defeatist attitude and come up with all the reasons why you cant.

Its not hard to figure out which one is the better attitude to have.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Really in the end there is dozens of ways and methods to do your army that fits any lifestyle or work schedule. You either have a "I can attitude" or have the defeatist attitude and come up with all the reasons why you cant.

Its not hard to figure out which one is the better attitude to have.

Everyone who is still painting or has not painted there army, give up were defeatists! Its also not a good attitude to force your opinions down other peoples throats, label them with such titles as "quitters" or "defeatists" over painting in a hobby.

Well considering you have been on the internet for well over an hour doing nothing and then tell everyone that life is hard and you have no time to paint, that's kind of dumb.

Btw, I used this time to good use and painted a unit of fire dragons, and while waiting for the washes to dry I made my lunch for the week. So instead of finding reasons why not, stop being lazy and do something. Unless they changed the armies slogan to "be all you can be, eventually, if you feel like it."

I have a friend who has a "Valkyrie", which is just a kids plane and doesn't look 40k style at all. One game he had a "nephilim jetfighter", which was literally just a piece of cardboard with the words "nephelim jetfighter" written on it.

He's just starting out, and he wants to try things out before buying them, and cashflow is a problem for him. Totall understandable. Am I going to refuse a game? No. Am I going to say he can't use it? No. Does it retract from the game? Yes. I've poured a lot of time and energy into painting (I really struggle for time and I don't particularly enjoy it) because it adds so much to the gaming experience and makes the game come alive. After all, that's why we have the models there in the first place right? We could just have pieces of paper which have stats or markers on them, we could just push around printed pictures. The game centres around the models, and therefore what the models look like actually is of some importance. I'm not going to refuse to play anyone - someone can have an army of salt shakers and paint pots if they really want. But it's not even comparable to facing a proper army which is full of character and brings life to the table.

It's really not so different a concept to an unpainted army, it's just that they're not so extreme on the spectrum. But the reasoning is the same.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Well considering you have been on the internet for well over an hour doing nothing and then tell everyone that life is hard and you have no time to paint, that's kind of dumb.

Btw, I used this time to good use and painted a unit of fire dragons, and while waiting for the washes to dry I made my lunch for the week. So instead of finding reasons why not, stop being lazy and do something. Unless they changed the armies slogan to "be all you can be, eventually, if you feel like it."

And you were right there with me man on the internet for an hour telling everyone how lazy they are for not painting, I can tit for tat as much as you do. Oh and during this I just completed my twelve page midterm since I was on the internet doing my online history course, as I said I can tit for tat all day, keep trying!

 Happyjew wrote:

VensersRevenge wrote:

Makumba wrote:
Nah w40k is all about reading books , writing 100pages fluff for your army , master class converting or painting and singing old english poems as a narrative to your games.

Old English poems? Amateur. I write my fluff in cuneiform and recite whole epics about each shooting and assault phase

You write them down? Ha! I force my models to remember them and recite them during every game.

Wait! You got them to stop singing We Are Family?

 Ravenous D wrote:
Really in the end there is dozens of ways and methods to do your army that fits any lifestyle or work schedule. You either have a "I can attitude" or have the defeatist attitude and come up with all the reasons why you cant.

Its not hard to figure out which one is the better attitude to have.

You're absolutely right, I do fit painting my army in with my lifestyle and my work schedule. That's why it will take me years to complete my army. "I can do it"! I think it shows more determination having an army in progress that you intend to paint properly, rather than spray painting them green and pouring Quick Shade over the top.

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Really in the end there is dozens of ways and methods to do your army that fits any lifestyle or work schedule. You either have a "I can attitude" or have the defeatist attitude and come up with all the reasons why you cant.

Its not hard to figure out which one is the better attitude to have.

You're absolutely right, I do fit painting my army in with my lifestyle and my work schedule. That's why it will take me years to complete my army. "I can do it"! I think it shows more determination having an army in progress that you intend to paint properly, rather than spray painting them green and pouring Quick Shade over the top.

Hey thats how i started... Although its more spray paint black, then paint the aquila and shoulder pads white. Hehe

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Really in the end there is dozens of ways and methods to do your army that fits any lifestyle or work schedule. You either have a "I can attitude" or have the defeatist attitude and come up with all the reasons why you cant.

Its not hard to figure out which one is the better attitude to have.

You're absolutely right, I do fit painting my army in with my lifestyle and my work schedule. That's why it will take me years to complete my army. "I can do it"! I think it shows more determination having an army in progress that you intend to paint properly, rather than spray painting them green and pouring Quick Shade over the top.

Using the "10 minute" method leaves the model in a above average playable table top state, and has the ground work for wet blending if you choose to. Block layering is for suckers and masochists.

Niexist wrote:
I think a good example of how much it hurts immersion would be my dark vengeance boxed set. I assembled all my models as soon as I got them, and while I was painting they sat in the box. When I would open that box there is no way I could possibly distinguish chaos space marines, from dark angels. They were all just a blob of grey models, as I got them all painted it was so easy to distinguish between them, and between the different types of units.

When you're forced to play against a grey army, because someone is too "busy" to even slap on a basecoat it is the same thing, am I playing tau? am I playing eldar? How would I know they're all just gray. However when I play against a painted army it is so easy to distinguish, and that fact alone makes the game more enjoyable to me. If I can't even tell what model you're using what is the point of even playing?

What does color have to do with "what army am I playing" when someone can paint their Tau in Iyanden bright sun just as readily as their eldar? Can you still not tell the difference because they are using an eldar color? Also when you just "slap on a basecoat" you got from playing against a "Gray" army to playing against a "Green" army or a "black" army, or a whatever single color army. How does that magically tell you what you are facing on the table?

Most armies have a unique character and style, and the absolutely simplest and most effective way to know what army you are playing against is to *ASK YOUR OPPONENT*. They will 99.9% of the time be totally honest when asked that question.

Skriker

Here's a great idea. Next time you go to a magic the gathering tournament, instead of using magic cards, take 60 index cards, cut them to the exact dimensions of a magic card, and scribble out the card names and text. Don't worry about being specific in the text either, it's fairly unimportant whether it's black or red mana needed, really, it's just about having fun. If your opponent doesn't understand that, he's clearly an elitist jerk with too much money and too much time on his hands.

This thread still going huh? Hahaha. I understand cost off-setting with re-selling minis, but do you even get that much return for what you've got? I have been selling on eBay recently, and I have to say, I'm not getting NEAR what I paid for the stuff. Second hand is ok but I feel the cost offset is not as balanced as it might seem.

I too have started to focus on one army and stick with it, I used to just buy everything and go with it... but I'm getting too old for that and have too many obligations now. I'll stick with one and one for Fantasy and 40K.. or at least try for now. I have very little time for painting anymore with the 9 month old... and it's not usually fair to just dump her on the wife so I can paint.. you'd be surprised how bad that conversation goes. Babies want you ALL the time, not just some of it. But I still find time for some painting.

Of course, I haven't PLAYED a match since Adepticon.. so that's a long time.

anchorbine wrote:
Here's a great idea. Next time you go to a magic the gathering tournament, instead of using magic cards, take 60 index cards, cut them to the exact dimensions of a magic card, and scribble out the card names and text. Don't worry about being specific in the text either, it's fairly unimportant whether it's black or red mana needed, really, it's just about having fun. If your opponent doesn't understand that, he's clearly an elitist jerk with too much money and too much time on his hands.

It's almost like a tournament and casual play are different things.
Also, Magic has specific rules regarding proxies and what are legal cards. 40k doesn't.

Here's a great idea. Next time you want to participate in a thread do so politely instead of trolling.

Niexist wrote:
I love how you guys know no middle ground, it's either fully painted or grey plastic. Nah, you couldn't just paint your metallics, and major color areas. It's either fully painted, or grey to you guys who are complaining about having a job/family.

Actually not...if you bothered to read the whole thread you are more than a bit off target here. I've painted plenty of figures and armies in my day and even my nurgle and slaanesh forces which all pretty much have the base armor, shade and highlights in place get grief because they aren't "fully" painted. It is actually the other side that make the determination of it being "fully painted or not". Want to paint your armies to a crap "table top acceptable" standard then please feel free to do so, but don't expect others to do so just because you like doing it.

Skriker

It's probably a "I put all this effort into making my army nice and for what?" sort of thing when you have a fully painted army and the opponent has some partially assembled grey hordes. I can't really blame people for getting miffed when their opponent doesn't even make an effort. I also understand when people don't paint their armies.

Of course, this being the domain of nerds, there will be some elitism involve. I... sort of feel this when I face this when facing an unpainted army. It makes me feel better when I lose certainly.

Niexist wrote:
I don't get angry over it, but to me resale value isn't a legitmate reason. It's like buying a washer and dryer, but keeping them in a box and going to the laundromat, because someday you'd like to sell it as brand new. Or I guess a closer analogy would be people who collect toys as children, and don't open them/play with them so they'll be worth more.

Here is a bit of a clue for you Niexst, you don't get to decide if someone's reason for not painting their models is legitimate or not. You have zero say in the matter. If they don't paint for that reason and they are happy with it, then that is all that matters really. You can make analogies all day, but it still doesn't give you the authority to determine if someone else's reasons are legitimate or not.

Skriker


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Really in the end there is dozens of ways and methods to do your army that fits any lifestyle or work schedule. You either have a "I can attitude" or have the defeatist attitude and come up with all the reasons why you cant.

Its not hard to figure out which one is the better attitude to have.

Nice when something so simple can be the solution, except when it can't. I am too busy applying my "I Can" attitude to the more important things in my life. The real issue here is that other people seem to feel they are in the position to demand/expect that painting should be one of those more important things in my life, or I am lazy. That makes me laugh heartily when I think about all the committments I fit into a typical week. "I'm too busy" isn't an excuse. It is a fact. If I get a brief refrain from commitments for hobby time I am getting my minis on a table and not just sitting alone and painting them since playing the game is why I got involved in the first place.

Skriker


Automatically Appended Next Post:

anchorbine wrote:
Here's a great idea. Next time you go to a magic the gathering tournament, instead of using magic cards, take 60 index cards, cut them to the exact dimensions of a magic card, and scribble out the card names and text. Don't worry about being specific in the text either, it's fairly unimportant whether it's black or red mana needed, really, it's just about having fun. If your opponent doesn't understand that, he's clearly an elitist jerk with too much money and too much time on his hands.

And today's award for useless extreme analogy goes to: Anchorbine...this is just as stupid as the playing basketball without running analogy from late last week. No one is trying to play 40k without miniatures, so why would you play Magic without actual Magic cards?

Skriker

Automatically Appended Next Post:

anchorbine wrote:
Here's a great idea. Next time you go to a magic the gathering tournament, instead of using magic cards, take 60 index cards, cut them to the exact dimensions of a magic card, and scribble out the card names and text. Don't worry about being specific in the text either, it's fairly unimportant whether it's black or red mana needed, really, it's just about having fun. If your opponent doesn't understand that, he's clearly an elitist jerk with too much money and too much time on his hands.

And today's award for useless extreme analogy goes to: Anchorbine...this is just as stupid as the playing basketball without running analogy from late last week. No one is trying to play 40k without miniatures, so why would you play Magic without actual Magic cards?

Skriker

 Ravenous D wrote:

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Really in the end there is dozens of ways and methods to do your army that fits any lifestyle or work schedule. You either have a "I can attitude" or have the defeatist attitude and come up with all the reasons why you cant.

Its not hard to figure out which one is the better attitude to have.

You're absolutely right, I do fit painting my army in with my lifestyle and my work schedule. That's why it will take me years to complete my army. "I can do it"! I think it shows more determination having an army in progress that you intend to paint properly, rather than spray painting them green and pouring Quick Shade over the top.

Using the "10 minute" method leaves the model in a above average playable table top state, and has the ground work for wet blending if you choose to. Block layering is for suckers and masochists.

The "do-it-like-me-or-do-it-wrong" is strong in this one.

anchorbine wrote:
Actually. No. If you find it acceptable to play against a guy whose using an unpainted space marine still missing the weapons and using it as a chaos cultist, why would it bother you to play against a guy who scribbled up his own magic cards? It's a very similar analogy. Gee, I can't afford magic cards, this is the best I can do. Gee, I don't have time to paint my models, build them correctly, or even get the right model.

And the basketball analogy isn't all that stupid either. The game is far more enjoyable if your opponent is trying. If he's just lobbing up half court shots because it's "how I play", it's definitely going to detract from the game.

You are new here, so I'll be nice. NO ONE is saying that it is acceptable to play using space marines missing the weapons and calling them chaos cultists. NO ONE. This is a thread about unpainted armies. The only people talking about unbuilt models are those who are trying to denegrate those who don't have fully painted armies further, by not even implying, but openly stating that not painting your army is the same as playing with half built miniatures or proxies. They are NOT the same thing. The majority of unpainted armies that will be seen on a table at 100% WYSIWYG. They just aren't painted. If you actually took the time to read the whole thread you will see multiple places where many, including myself, make it clear that unbuilt minis are not acceptable on the table top because it is a miniatures game. If a group, together, decides they want to play using bottle caps to save money that is fine for them to do, but they will be called on it if they bring their bottle caps to a store for a general game.

So again, your analogy is invalid, because no one finds your initial premise as valid, so playing with scribbled magic cards doesn't work either.

The basketball analogy is also wrong for the same reasons. You don't remove a vital part of playing a game and then compare it to something esoteric like painting. As I said in my response to that analogy, not having painted minis in a 40k game is akin to playing basketball with a ball that isn't orange or by teams not wearing coordinated colored jersey's. As long as the ball has the exact same size, properties and characteristics as a regular basketball then the color doesn't matter and as long as the team's in the game know who they are jerseys also are not vital. Same with a space marine armed with a multi-melta. It is a marine with a multi-melta whether it is fully painted, completely unpainted or somewhere in between. If it is just a pair of legs it is nothing.

Skriker