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Wow, I would love to play where some of you all play where people actually paint their models. I myself love a completely painted army on the tabletop and make every effort to maintain a fully painted force.

That said, I could care less what my opponent does so long as he/she has the models assembled and equiped appropriately. In my city, the culture of the hobby largely relates more to the gaming aspect, and much less to the painting and modeling/conversion aspects. I have friends that haven't put a brush to their models in years but still regularly play, and our local tournament scene never requires fully painted forces.

While I sympathise with those who appreciate a fully painted army, I could never imagine the snobbery of refusing to play someone that didn't paint their army, or even looking down on them for not painting it. Everyone gets into this hobby for different reasons. Some mostly for the artistic aspects, or others soley for the gameplay aspects. I personally fall dead smack in the middle of the spectrum, but completely understand that there are people involved in the game that don't have an artistic bone in their body, and have no interest in painting.

I don't mind playing against an unpainted army, i am fine with that, in fact, half of my L&TD is unpainted... I just enjoy painted games more because it looks nice, if i were to take a photo or something

Da krimson barun wrote:
Now I can never look at two towers the same ever again.

At least he didn't say the uruks were naked at helms deep...

Skriker

I can understand it, but it depends on how far you are on the AH scale, I guess.

Out of my circle of WH40K friends, I'm the ONLY one who has painted their army, or anything for that matter. All the rest have hordes of grey, unpainted figures. Does it rak me off that I'm the only one that's painted them? Yes. Why? Well, you kinda feel that you're the only one putting effort in to this odd ill' tabletop, modelling hobby we've picked.
He'll, my friends don't even read their Codexes when they assemble their models, and I end up fighting a squad with 'illegal' weapons, or something, but I still play, 'cos I love the game.

They don' care about my conversions, either.

 Tower75 wrote:

He'll, my friends don't even read their Codexes when they assemble their models, and I end up fighting a squad with 'illegal' weapons, or something, but I still play, 'cos I love the game.

They don' care about my conversions, either.

Playing with illegal weapons due to lack of codex reading is annoying, but it is BEYOND rude not to ooooo and aahhhh over a buddy's coverted models.

Skriker

Personally I don't mind unpainted armies. In fact, I prefer them to poorly painted armies. It is, however, nicer to play against well-painted armies, but that's no surprise. The only real problem with unpainted armies is if two players with the "same" army, for example Space Marines, play against each other. It gets a bit hard to see who owns which models, especially once you end up in close combat!

Most of my models are unpainted at this time. I have painted perhaps 3000 points worth of Templars (really haven't counted especially with the new Codex and frankly it depends on what I field my billions of HQ models as), and some non-BT special characters, but that still leaves a heck of a lot of unpainted BT/SM/BA/CSM/IG/SOB/Orks to deal with. Unfortunately I am the slowest painter ever and as such find it hard to even get started, so the situation will likely not change any time soon.

 Skriker wrote:

Da krimson barun wrote:
Now I can never look at two towers the same ever again.

At least he didn't say the uruks were naked at helms deep...

Skriker

....Remind me to never watch that scene again..

 Crimson wrote:

 Krellnus wrote:
To all those that say not painting your models isn't fully taking part in the hobby, than surely by that logic, people who paint, but don't play are also not fully taking part and are equally worthing of your contempt correct?

... For some reason they don't complain about me not wanting to play against them...

They're too busy not being pompous about the fact their minis are painted and someone else's are not.

As was said by a poster above, if you take the hobby portion out of 40k (the painting) you're left with a game with a pretty crumby unbalanced ruleset, and some awesome fluff.

I think the OP sounds like more of a competitive spirit than a hobbyist. So if your draw is to competition why are you even playing? You have much more balanced rulesets in other wargaming, and even then it isn't exactly balanced. To me it sounds like you might be a great chess strategist, so try playing that competitively as chess figures are not intended to be painted.

anchorbine wrote:
When you attend a costume party, it's somewhat assumed you'll actually wear a costume. There are likely a zillion reasons why you might attend a costume party without a costume, and I'm sure all of your friends will just be happy you're there, but it doesn't take away from the fact that you still attended a costume party without one.

In the end, it's just a game, it's just a much better one on a nicely terrained table with two well painted armies.

This is such an amazing analogy. Well done sir.

Or in a video game analogy

Compare a first person shooter running at 60 fps with no anti aliasing (unpainted army)on one pc to another running at 120fps with 8x AA(painted army).

Both are playable, but given a choice i prefer the machine running smoother graphics.

And looking at the thread, the few people who only play against painted armies arguments are reasonable enough. I dont see any elitism from them. The majority it seems will play against unpainted, they just prefer painted armies if they have a choice.

Niexist wrote:
As was said by a poster above, if you take the hobby portion out of 40k (the painting) you're left with a game with a pretty crumby unbalanced ruleset, and some awesome fluff.

I think the OP sounds like more of a competitive spirit than a hobbyist. So if your draw is to competition why are you even playing? You have much more balanced rulesets in other wargaming, and even then it isn't exactly balanced. To me it sounds like you might be a great chess strategist, so try playing that competitively as chess figures are not intended to be painted.

Because they might...Y'know, enjoy actually playing 40K?

Nah w40k is all about reading books , writing 100pages fluff for your army , master class converting or painting and singing old english poems as a narrative to your games.

Very silly thread but I'll bite... Firstly only one of the people I regularly game against has anywhere near a fully painted army. In fact, I've probably only seen one or two in all my time playing. Aforementioned friend has a Steel Legion guard army, mmmm very nice . Unfortunately he's just added a bunch of new models so it's not fully painted anymore. Should he not use it until these are painted?

Secondly, what about people with young children? One of my other friends has just had a kid which means his hobby time is very, very limited. Again, should I tell him I'm not prepared to game against him because he had the audacity to have a child?

Thirdly, codex creep means that painted models become useless. I had a 90% painted Noise Marine army painted in lovely pink until the new chaos dex. Now about half of the army is pretty crap [bye bye lash princes] so I've added new [unpainted] units. My fault? GW update the codex so I should forfeit playing until I get the new models painted?

Finally, I have a job, other hobbies, and a wife. I don't get home until about 7pm most evenings and I run on 3 out of 5 weeknights so mid-week painting is out. The missus is quite understanding about my hobby bless her [she even buys me Forge World every birthday and Christmas] but would probably be filing for divorce if I spent every weekend painting all day.

If I was single, living with my mum and unemployed, or 12 years old, then yes, I would have a fully painted army - but I'm not, and I don't, and I'm happier as a result.

 tyrannosaurus wrote:
Very silly thread but I'll bite... Firstly only one of the people I regularly game against has anywhere near a fully painted army. In fact, I've probably only seen one or two in all my time playing. Aforementioned friend has a Steel Legion guard army, mmmm very nice . Unfortunately he's just added a bunch of new models so it's not fully painted anymore. Should he not use it until these are painted?

Secondly, what about people with young children? One of my other friends has just had a kid which means his hobby time is very, very limited. Again, should I tell him I'm not prepared to game against him because he had the audacity to have a child?

Thirdly, codex creep means that painted models become useless. I had a 90% painted Noise Marine army painted in lovely pink until the new chaos dex. Now about half of the army is pretty crap [bye bye lash princes] so I've added new [unpainted] units. My fault? GW update the codex so I should forfeit playing until I get the new models painted?

Finally, I have a job, other hobbies, and a wife. I don't get home until about 7pm most evenings and I run on 3 out of 5 weeknights so mid-week painting is out. The missus is quite understanding about my hobby bless her [she even buys me Forge World every birthday and Christmas] but would probably be filing for divorce if I spent every weekend painting all day.

If I was single, living with my mum and unemployed, or 12 years old, then yes, I would have a fully painted army - but I'm not, and I don't, and I'm happier as a result.

How dare people have a life outside of Warhammer 40K. If people cannot commit all of their time to making their models perfect they should not be in this hobby.

 tyrannosaurus wrote:
Very silly thread but I'll bite... Firstly only one of the people I regularly game against has anywhere near a fully painted army. In fact, I've probably only seen one or two in all my time playing. Aforementioned friend has a Steel Legion guard army, mmmm very nice . Unfortunately he's just added a bunch of new models so it's not fully painted anymore. Should he not use it until these are painted?

Secondly, what about people with young children? One of my other friends has just had a kid which means his hobby time is very, very limited. Again, should I tell him I'm not prepared to game against him because he had the audacity to have a child?

Thirdly, codex creep means that painted models become useless. I had a 90% painted Noise Marine army painted in lovely pink until the new chaos dex. Now about half of the army is pretty crap [bye bye lash princes] so I've added new [unpainted] units. My fault? GW update the codex so I should forfeit playing until I get the new models painted?

Finally, I have a job, other hobbies, and a wife. I don't get home until about 7pm most evenings and I run on 3 out of 5 weeknights so mid-week painting is out. The missus is quite understanding about my hobby bless her [she even buys me Forge World every birthday and Christmas] but would probably be filing for divorce if I spent every weekend painting all day.

If I was single, living with my mum and unemployed, or 12 years old, then yes, I would have a fully painted army - but I'm not, and I don't, and I'm happier as a result.

So basically you're implying everyone with a fully painted army is either a NEET, or a child? Very cute innuendo. My army isn't fully painted, but I try to put to at least slap on my base colors in different areas before bringing them to the store to play.

Niexist wrote:


So basically you're implying everyone with a fully painted army is either a NEET, or a child? Very cute innuendo. My army isn't fully painted, but I try to put to at least slap on my base colors in different areas before bringing them to the store to play.

Not at all, just that my circumstances have changed now. For example, the bloke with the painted Steel Legion got most of them done when he was a kid but struggles to find time to paint his new models. I was saying that it's virtually impossible for me, and the people I game with, to have fully painted armies because of other commitments [i.e. life]. I do paint when I can, and I would love to have the time to paint more, but it's going to take me years to finish my armies. I'm objecting to the idea that I should wait until they're finished before I game with them, or that I should sacrifice other important things to fit in with someone else's idea of the hobby.

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

Niexist wrote:


So basically you're implying everyone with a fully painted army is either a NEET, or a child? Very cute innuendo. My army isn't fully painted, but I try to put to at least slap on my base colors in different areas before bringing them to the store to play.

Not at all, just that my circumstances have changed now. For example, the bloke with the painted Steel Legion got most of them done when he was a kid but struggles to find time to paint his new models. I was saying that it's virtually impossible for me, and the people I game with, to have fully painted armies because of other commitments [i.e. life]. I do paint when I can, and I would love to have the time to paint more, but it's going to take me years to finish my armies. I'm objecting to the idea that I should wait until they're finished before I game with them, or that I should sacrifice other important things to fit in with someone else's idea of the hobby.

Like I said above, I have a lot of unfinished models that I play with, but do you at least take the time to put a base coat on them, or is that (which takes all of what 10 minutes per model?) to much for you as well?

I think a good example of how much it hurts immersion would be my dark vengeance boxed set. I assembled all my models as soon as I got them, and while I was painting they sat in the box. When I would open that box there is no way I could possibly distinguish chaos space marines, from dark angels. They were all just a blob of grey models, as I got them all painted it was so easy to distinguish between them, and between the different types of units.

When you're forced to play against a grey army, because someone is too "busy" to even slap on a basecoat it is the same thing, am I playing tau? am I playing eldar? How would I know they're all just gray. However when I play against a painted army it is so easy to distinguish, and that fact alone makes the game more enjoyable to me. If I can't even tell what model you're using what is the point of even playing?

ah , so when they are grey it is bad , but when they are all black or white they are ok . Well they sure do sell for a lot less when based. So I guess for all those who want to buy cheap armies it is better.

When I would open that box there is no way I could possibly distinguish chaos space marines

Chaos marines are those with spikes .

Makumba wrote:
ah , so when they are grey it is bad , but when they are all black or white they are ok . Well they sure do sell for a lot less when based. So I guess for all those who want to buy cheap armies it is better.

When I would open that box there is no way I could possibly distinguish chaos space marines

Chaos marines are those with spikes .

I don't mean a black/white basecoat, I mean painting your major colors for instance on my ravenwing I painted the whole model black, then went through did my metal, my reds, and my whites on the feathers, it took me no more than ten minutes, but it lends a great deal to immersion in my opinion.

If you're worried about resale value, then maybe you should be more involved in stocks than hobbies.

Wow page 10 eh? Figured someone would've gotten snotty by now and a mod would've laid the Exterminatus down.

Has anyone ever actually been 'mad' about playing someone with an unpainted army? I mean, if you don't want to play the guy, don't play him, not sure why there's a discussion about why.

It comes down to acting like an adult; don't want to play a guy who doesn't paint his stuff? Kindly decline. Don't want to paint your stuff because of time/ability/philosophical reasons? Don't. I don't understand why people can't just let gak go, it's something done for fun, there's really no reason to read a bunch of bs into it.


Edit after rereading some of the previous posts: Are we not all brothers in wargamming-arms? Can't we just unite in our hatred of GW as we normally do and revert back to the tried and true method of 'poor rules' arguments? The fact that someone took the time to buy ANY of these products and get them semi-game ready should be something we, as TT-gamers, should be excited about. New/more blood for the war gaming god! and all that.

 tyrannosaurus wrote:
Very silly thread but I'll bite... Firstly only one of the people I regularly game against has anywhere near a fully painted army. In fact, I've probably only seen one or two in all my time playing. Aforementioned friend has a Steel Legion guard army, mmmm very nice . Unfortunately he's just added a bunch of new models so it's not fully painted anymore. Should he not use it until these are painted?

Did his existing painted models vanish somehow, when he bought new models? He could just play with those he has painted until he has painted his new models too. I'm not saying he should, but he could.

Makumba wrote:
Nah w40k is all about reading books , writing 100pages fluff for your army , master class converting or painting and singing old english poems as a narrative to your games.

Old English poems? Amateur. I write my fluff in cuneiform and recite whole epics about each shooting and assault phase

Becuase it's more fun to play agianst a good looking army than a few lumps of plastic.

Ive had possibly 1/2 of my armies fully painted.
And still working on finishing my skaven and daemons.

But a 14-16 hour day at work, then usual housework leave little time to paint, so i only get to paint when i have a few spare mins or on the weekend (when im not working them anyway)

So i get about 3 hours a week to paint, so a fully painted army isnt always an option for me.

I love how you guys know no middle ground, it's either fully painted or grey plastic. Nah, you couldn't just paint your metallics, and major color areas. It's either fully painted, or grey to you guys who are complaining about having a job/family.

Anfauglir wrote:However, the gaming/play side of it is supposed to be done properly,

Niexist wrote:
I love how you guys know no middle ground, it's either fully painted or grey plastic. Nah, you couldn't just paint your metallics, and major color areas. It's either fully painted, or grey to you guys who are complaining about having a job/family.

why would anyone want to paint their army to a non master class standard ? a partly or bad painted army sells for less then an unpainted one . there is enough problems with selling armies durning edition or codex change , why add more just because you fell some ununderstandable urge to to undercoat all your models .

Old English poems? Amateur. I write my fluff in cuneiform and recite whole epics about each shooting and assault phase

you be a slav and try old english . if you want to feel something close ,take a swing at old ortodox slavic , which only exists in sung form and is writen in cirlic , but not in the easy modern day Russian version , but the hardcore lets see how many rzdzyzdz we can fit in to a single letter of greek alfabet .

Makumba wrote:

Niexist wrote:
I love how you guys know no middle ground, it's either fully painted or grey plastic. Nah, you couldn't just paint your metallics, and major color areas. It's either fully painted, or grey to you guys who are complaining about having a job/family.

why would anyone want to paint their army to a non master class standard ? a partly or bad painted army sells for less then an unpainted one . there is enough problems with selling armies durning edition or codex change , why add more just because you fell some ununderstandable urge to to undercoat all your models .

Old English poems? Amateur. I write my fluff in cuneiform and recite whole epics about each shooting and assault phase

you be a slav and try old english . if you want to feel something close ,take a swing at old ortodox slavic , which only exists in sung form and is writen in cirlic , but not in the easy modern day Russian version , but the hardcore lets see how many rzdzyzdz we can fit in to a single letter of greek alfabet .

So basically your whole premise for not painting your army is resale value? As I said above, if you're so worried about a return on your investment maybe you need a savings account with a decent interest rate instead of miniatures.

Personally I like to think I'm creating something of value to myself, rather than something to sell.

VensersRevenge wrote:

Makumba wrote:
Nah w40k is all about reading books , writing 100pages fluff for your army , master class converting or painting and singing old english poems as a narrative to your games.

Old English poems? Amateur. I write my fluff in cuneiform and recite whole epics about each shooting and assault phase

You write them down? Ha! I force my models to remember them and recite them during every game.