Seems like I've finally got to know the more charming sides of Romeo. To make it short: I'll no longer have a nice word to say about the company. The game is still nice, as is the background. The models are top-notch.

Getting their stuff anywhere but on their own online store is a chore though, especially outside of the US. They're expensive, and their "retailer support" is marketing BS - the one store in Germany having the range in stock did not only stop to do so because of unfavourable $/€ rates and custums/P&P issues, but also because of the complete lack of support from Outlaw Miniatures.

And the head of the company is a complete .


P.S.: I'd love to settle the issue via the WWX forums - but my account there just got deleted. Without a word of warning, after supporting them through both of their KS campaigns and inbetween. Excellent style.

Browncoats!!!!!!

Yes! I had not thought of them in that way. The confederates were my second favorite faction (tied with outlaws but second to lawmen); I like the confederates more than ever now. Lets see, they also lost the war against the alliance... er I mean union, and are fighting back guerilla style now.

I have a merchant underboss and a sidekick of his that would like to join my confederate army this coming winter

That's one thing I love about wwx, it fits the firefly theme perfectly and vice versa with its own unique work and twists

Just hours ago I would have replied to that with lots of enthusiasm. Not anymore...

 Darnok wrote:
Just hours ago I would have replied to that with lots of enthusiasm. Not anymore...

Whats happened?

I heard years ago Romeo had a bad rep but some folks just do.

Has it escalated that much? Kicked off the forums seems rather petty for them to do that

That is one thing that seems to be a universal agreement. Romeo seems to have a terrible personality.

Honestly I think the best two things Outlaw could do to really make things fly is improve their distrubution (get a middle man and let the doors to Europe open! Spread the game! I do not know if it is cause they are still small but they need to do this). Second is Romeo needs to have his personality fixed. I have no heard a single nice thing about him. Rubbing people the wrong way does not help a KS. Maybe a swift kick to the head by one of his fellow employees...

That being said I still really like the system and if those changes were made I would be overjoyed. The idea about the browncoats is also really cool. Thanks!

Motograter wrote:

 Darnok wrote:
Just hours ago I would have replied to that with lots of enthusiasm. Not anymore...

Whats happened?

Follow the comments from this one onwards. If you are interested in my previous KS comments history, look here.

I'm well aware that I'm not sugarcoating anything, but overall I've been very supportive of both this and the last WWX KS. Sadly you can't read any of my posts in the WWX forums anymore - they're deleted (without any comment, by the way). I think Romeos reactions are unfair, and downright bullying.

But yeah, he's got a new "friend" now. And I thought only GW was competent at driving loyal customers away in no time...


P.S.: Sad thing is: I still like the game, the background, the models. Currently I'm not willing to throw any more money in their direction though...

Alright wow. Thats somewhat pathetic to be honest. Some of the "fans" don`t seem t obe much better either.

Well as much as I like the game and background etc i`m glad I pulled out my pledge and sold off my other stuff. Almost makes GW look bearable

Welcome to the club, Darnok!

Kickstarter comments sections usually leave a lot to be desired.

The format is awful and the fact that they're unmoderated, for the most part, doesn't really help either.

My sympathies Darnok.

People get hot headed about things they're passionate about. Happens to all of us.

All of us except those people who ran that Ice Age Animals Kickstarter and clogged my inbox with all sorts of wonderful comments for continuing to ask them to show samples of their figures.

Those were fun times.

Deja Vu all over again. It seems everytime I peek in on the WWX forums, someone is getting banned. It's now a ghost town over there. Just be careful to not make too much of a stink, he might try to sue you. Only half-joking.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/526744.page
http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2013/03/07/meat-meta-bad-battlefoam-practices/

Oh wait, that didn't quite work out for Romeo after the last kickstarter, or any of the other times he's tried to sue people...

The guy has a long history of flipping out, making threats against people and trying to sue people or companies, even back when his now foam-cutting lasers used to cut baseball bats: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-maplecontroversy011809

carboncopy wrote:
Deja Vu all over again. It seems everytime I peek in on the WWX forums, someone is getting banned. It's now a ghost town over there. Just be careful to not make too much of a stink, he might try to sue you. Only half-joking.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/526744.page
http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2013/03/07/meat-meta-bad-battlefoam-practices/

Oh wait, that didn't quite work out for Romeo after the last kickstarter, or any of the other times he's tried to sue people...

The guy has a long history of flipping out, making threats against people and trying to sue people or companies, even back when his now foam-cutting lasers used to cut baseball bats: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-maplecontroversy011809

Does he make any good choices? I mean Outlaw seems to be doing ok and its got a great product but man... he doesn't seem like the type of person that should be running it.... sigh.

Also for the comments section, honestly I think both parties are in the wrong but then again I believe swearing is a petty thing to do regardless of the situation (unless like your house explodes and your outside say WTF?, that would be very reasonable). KS comments are never a good place to visit unless you want to become depressed.

This isn't just KS comments, though. This has persisted on their forums, Facebook, etc.

It's a shame, too. The idea behind the game really is neat, and the models are nice. The game is fun, if unpolished (nearly plagiarizing rulebooks from other game systems for the majority of its more important mechanics aside) and badly in need of an editor. Oh well.

The biggest shame of this whole thing is that it was done in public, showing "dirty laundry" to everyone. I usually tend to stay away from the kickstarter message boards as people tend to become overzealous, and things like what happened are all too common. I have already been called different things in both the wwx and myth message boards "by accident" - person meant to address someone else but addressed me in their fit of rage - but whatever, sticks and stones.

I believe kickstarter should hire some folks to be moderators as they have a strict policy on the message boards. Their policy is no name calling/swearing, no personal attacks, and no attacking project creators (made to safeguard those who are trying to get a product off the ground whether the backers agree with the product or not). I have seen way to many people violate those rules in many different boards (blood rage board - wowzers). According to kickstarter, constructive criticism 'can' be seen as an attack on a creator even though it is not meant to be.

Anywho....

I don't think WWX is unpolished. I have been gaming for almost two decades and found wild west exodus to be very balanced, smooth running, and easy to understand/learn. I have taught several people how to play and they understand the game clearly... so I wouldn't say it is unpolished. They actually enjoyed the game so much that they left other gaming systems to get into wwx.

As for the rules being borrowed, yes there are portions of the game that seem borrowed. However, if you look at pretty much any table top war game or skirmish game using dice/rulers, they pretty much all share the same basic concepts (batman, wwx, infinity, warhammer, 40k, dust, etc).

WWX has many things that differentiate the game from most games as well, such as how they use the influence system, their unit card design (stats and how they are used), D10's, activations, special rules, and how detailed the game is (can go prone, climb, jump, etc... many things you can't do in dumbed down warhammer 40k or warmahordes). Personally I think WWX is unique enough that I have kept it as one of my 4 major wargaming systems -wwx, batman, dust, 40k. (downsizing from 15 different wargames... not enough time).

I think that the success of WWX stands for itself. In a short amount of time the company (which is financially healthy) created a game from nothing, added TONS of new units each month, added more factions, and is now adding four more factions! WWX may not be in every FLGS, but I know most adults are playing it on their own tables in their basements with their friends

 Darnok wrote:

Motograter wrote:

 Darnok wrote:
Just hours ago I would have replied to that with lots of enthusiasm. Not anymore...

Whats happened?

Follow the comments from this one onwards. If you are interested in my previous KS comments history, look here.

I'm well aware that I'm not sugarcoating anything, but overall I've been very supportive of both this and the last WWX KS. Sadly you can't read any of my posts in the WWX forums anymore - they're deleted (without any comment, by the way). I think Romeos reactions are unfair, and downright bullying.

But yeah, he's got a new "friend" now. And I thought only GW was competent at driving loyal customers away in no time...


P.S.: Sad thing is: I still like the game, the background, the models. Currently I'm not willing to throw any more money in their direction though...

Darnoks beard

Pugnacious_Cee wrote:Welcome to the club, Darnok!

I'm still curious about your story.

And at least you weren't deleted from their forums without warning or explaination...

carboncopy wrote:Deja Vu all over again. It seems everytime I peek in on the WWX forums, someone is getting banned. It's now a ghost town over there. Just be careful to not make too much of a stink, he might try to sue you. Only half-joking.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/526744.page
http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2013/03/07/meat-meta-bad-battlefoam-practices/

Most enlightening, thanks for digging out those links. At least I'm not an "accident" then...

Joyboozer wrote:Darnoks beard

I still don't get it.

 Darnok wrote:

Motograter wrote:

 Darnok wrote:
Just hours ago I would have replied to that with lots of enthusiasm. Not anymore...

Whats happened?

Follow the comments from this one onwards. If you are interested in my previous KS comments history, look here.

I'm well aware that I'm not sugarcoating anything, but overall I've been very supportive of both this and the last WWX KS. Sadly you can't read any of my posts in the WWX forums anymore - they're deleted (without any comment, by the way). I think Romeos reactions are unfair, and downright bullying.

But yeah, he's got a new "friend" now. And I thought only GW was competent at driving loyal customers away in no time...


P.S.: Sad thing is: I still like the game, the background, the models. Currently I'm not willing to throw any more money in their direction though...

I don't know the full history of what has gone on, but honestly I feel your comments could of been worded differently to provide the same input while seeming less hostile. I'm no fan of Romeo but the other people working at Outlaw don't deserve the vitriol thrown their way intended for Romeo. it seems that people forget that.

 455_PWR wrote:

I think that the success of WWX stands for itself. In a short amount of time the company (which is financially healthy) created a game from nothing, added TONS of new units each month, added more factions, and is now adding four more factions! WWX may not be in every FLGS, but I know most adults are playing it on their own tables in their basements with their friends

It depends on what you mean by success I guess. I suspect that WWX is losing more money than its making or at least has grown stale. Romeo stated on a few different podcasts that he would never do another kickstarter because it should only be for starting a project and is unfair to retailers. But here we are. Most of all Kickstarters severely cut into profit margins - offering greatly reduced pricings, reduced or free shipping, and the 10% Amazon/Kickstarter cut. Given the current WWX self-distribution methods, I suspect he's very big on those profit margins.

At this point he's probably losing more money than making on the KS, so I think the main purpose of this is an attempt to breathe some life into the game, and given the initial list of lofty stretch goals, was really counting on it to explode.

I wouldn't be surprised if the plug was pulled if things start to slide backward, even if it's well over funding, however it seems it's too much of a pet project, a dream, for him to do that without at least giving it another go at a less crowded KS time.

Gotta say I am a little disheartened with the comments, I had my first game of WWX and thought it was great fun and so based off that purchased the 2 player starter box and a 3rd faction starter set. Starting to think I should have sat on the fence for a while....still got it through Wayland so I probably have a few months till I receive any thing lol.

Daston, dont let the naysayers or the few negative comments get you down. If you liked the game and thought it was great fun... well, isn't that why we buy and collect games?

I have heard far more good than bad about the game. Many people talking bad have played it once or twice (or not at all), wanted a 40k sized community from the start, and many don't even own wwx stuff. Some people want to see drama, and games they don't participate in fail. I got into the game by myself, bought tons, started introducing others to the game as I found it was great fun and enjoyed the theme, and now I still enjoy it with my own little wwx gaming community that meets in my basement on a regular basis (we have 40k nights and wwx nights).

I have also seen negative comments since wwx's beginning. I have found the creators to be very open and involved in the wwx community; I cant complain about them as they have been very good to me and the community from what I have seen. They have made models off community suggestions, updated stats according to suggestions, have the best customer service ive seen, etc. People also said the stuff is expensive but i have less stuck into this game (i own at least one of everything including the train) than i have in 40k by thousands! My group has found the game to be very unique, fast, and smooth (again, naysayers will disagree). The company is also doing very well, just look at how many new units and factions they have produced since the first kickstarter, but naysayers will disagree even though the evidence is in from of us all.

You liked the game, you had fun playing it... then run with it, enjoy it, and play with your family and friends! Who cares what a few naysayers post on the interweb!

While the game is good, the company and owner are questionable and they do nothing to support the game outside the usa. Currently only wayland have it and we all know how awful they are. Dark Sphere are starting to stock it but once their initial order dries up there is no guarantee outlaw will help them. A lot of European shops that stocked it gave up on it as there is no help from outlaw in any way, shape or form. Good luck getting stock if youre not in the US

Motograter wrote:
While the game is good, the company and owner are questionable and they do nothing to support the game outside the usa. Currently only wayland have it and we all know how awful they are. Dark Sphere are starting to stock it but once their initial order dries up there is no guarantee outlaw will help them. A lot of European shops that stocked it gave up on it as there is no help from outlaw in any way, shape or form. Good luck getting stock if youre not in the US

This, so very much. Which is a real shame.

Valid points guys....now will Wayland deliver stuff before the kick starter place your bets.

Seems like Romeo is still entrenched in his paranoid world view:

Outlaw (aka Romeo) in the KS comments wrote:Somehow it seems the haters are winning based on what we are reading on forums such as Dakka Dakka and others. Don't know how and why people are so negative against our game but it is what it is.

Dear Romeo: there is a difference between not liking you and your product. Pretty much everyone likes the game, and is supportive of it - it's there, you just have to read. Liking you though? Not so much.

I haven't really seen anything negative about the game at all. Heard nothing but good things.

People behind the game however...

I'm still sore I have to pledge for an entire faction if I just want a big giant monster. Looks like I'm going to need to wait on the big giant monsters anyways, but that gives my wallet a chance to recover anyways.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
I haven't really seen anything negative about the game at all. Heard nothing but good things.

Same here - I'd like to know where they're reading all the negative stuff...

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
I haven't really seen anything negative about the game at all. Heard nothing but good things.

People behind the game however...

I'm still sore I have to pledge for an entire faction if I just want a big giant monster. Looks like I'm going to need to wait on the big giant monsters anyways, but that gives my wallet a chance to recover anyways.

Fully agreed on the first point. I think it is down to "people like to put labels on everything". So when they like something, and don't share their obsession to the letter, you are automatically a "whiner" or "hater" or posting "only negativity". Makes sense from the psychological side of things, but makes them also look like idiots...

On the second point: which monster are you talking about? The Snake is available as add-on, and not bound to any pledge levels. Same for the bigger DN models so far. TO be honest I don't see anything big at all that is bound to a faction bundle...

Nothing is bound by faction bundle big monster wise. You could pledge as little as you like and just buy a single thing if you want. You dont have to buy a faction unless you want too.

Personally I think they have shot themselves in the foot. I dont see it breaking 150k. It might not even get that high. Yeah the last 2 days may get a bump up but currently its dying on its ass. There just isnt enough interest

What I meant was (and correct me if I'm wrong) when the campaign first started, there was no a la carte pledge. Lowest you could pledge was for a faction and add ons.

I see there's an a la carte pledge now that covers shipping. I really like that Windigo for the Dark Nation. Considering his price, that thing must be massive! I guess I'll be having to keep an eye on Outlaw's web page.

I still may pledge and get Avonaco, especially if the figure is going to look like the redone artwork, holding the gun rather than just lugging it around.

Dang. Romeo sounds like Kevin's same-alignment twin brother.

If someone acts non-professionally towards their potential backes and customers, you gotta wonder how well they work with their employees, suppliers, distributors, and retailers.

Wait for retail.

ced1106 wrote:
Dang. Romeo sounds like Kevin's same-alignment twin brother.

If someone acts non-professionally towards their potential backes and customers, you gotta wonder how well they work with their employees, suppliers, distributors, and retailers.

Do you really want to tumble down the rabbit hole?

http://rumorsontheinternets.org/tag/romeo-filip/
http://data-sphere.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=70&p=747
http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2013/03/07/meat-meta-bad-battlefoam-practices/
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/526744.page

The time frame alone makes it rather clear that none of these were an "accident". He's socially slowed, simple as that.

It is probably a good thing that he wasnt the guy doing stuff for Beasts of War WWX week. Sean was the guy doing that right? Why don't they have him doing the comments? He seems more reasonable and probably would be more positive.

I feel like WWX could be summed up with- Great game, great rules, epic models, owner is unstable/just really rude.

Wait, this is the same guy who ran 40k radio? I remember him spending a whole episode of that show talking gak about some guy he had a beef with to try and prove something. He made sure I'll never buy any Battlefoam products, and made me stop listening to the podcast.

ClockworkChaos wrote:
I feel like WWX could be summed up with- Great game, great rules, epic models, owner is unstable/just really rude.

I might sig that.

As much as I like the game and would like it to succeed. I have completely dropped all interest at the minute. Dropped oyt the KS as it just isnt interesting enough, sold off all my models I had as no one is around to play. Even this KS hasnt generated all that much interest here. To be fair also as the game is completely unavailable anywhere over here (no I dont include wayland) its such a wasted oppertunity.

Maybe when Outlaw get some proper distribution sorted and stop taking the **** out of people that try and get the game out and known about and actually help retailers instead of doing nothing. Maybe then assuming more places actually stock it will it be worth while picking up as hopefully by then the game might actually be played

I really think even people critical of Romeo, but supportive of the game itself, should pledge for the current KS. Add $1, make your voice heard. For a mere single dollar, you can actually raise issues you feel are worth being raised, you can follow the updates after the KS ends, and you even help others getting a free model by raising the number of backers.

I think it's a very low price for all of that.

 Darnok wrote:

ClockworkChaos wrote:
I feel like WWX could be summed up with- Great game, great rules, epic models, owner is unstable/just really rude.

I might sig that.

Go ahead, if you want it, it is yours.

I am still supporting this KS myself (I have a fair amount in it) cause I really do like the game ect and I would like to bring this to my area. That being said I would also really like it if Romeo shaped up, worked with distributors and stopped being so aggressive to others. That can only help the game. I mean the game is being somewhat successful IN-SPITE of him not BECAUSE of him. I wish he would learn that.

Now I just hope for the few final days we can reach 200,000 or at least 160,000 for the heavies. Could really go for those...

ClockworkChaos wrote:
I am still supporting this KS myself (I have a fair amount in it) cause I really do like the game ect and I would like to bring this to my area. That being said I would also really like it if Romeo shaped up, worked with distributors and stopped being so aggressive to others. That can only help the game. I mean the game is being somewhat successful IN-SPITE of him not BECAUSE of him. I wish he would learn that.

I've yet to find a creator whose behavior improved after KS funding. The Doom that Came to Atlantic City is a pretty good example.

Four days to go, half the number of backers and 1/3 the money of the previous pledge. Should be an interesting four days...!

Hey guys, single Faction bundles were added to the Kickstarter if you are looking to get in with just models and no books, templates, etc.
Just pledge at the Add-On only level and toss a Single Faction Bundle in there:



Hope that helps some of you out.

We have a lot of big stuff planned for the game over the upcoming years. We have a unique League/Tournament system that is unlike many others out there, a game system that is filled with lots of cinematic effect and amazing models.
If you aren't looking for anything in the Kickstarter factions there is plenty to be found in our web store as well at: http://wildwestexodus.com/

Ok it looks like paranoia or some need for justification is setting in:

Outlaw Miniatures, LLC about 9 hours ago
Hey guys, let me report something we have noticed on our end. Since we can see information you all can not it's about time we spread the word about what some people seem to think is funny.
The same 10 or so backers from two parts of the country continue to put pledges into the kickstarter early in the day and then pull them out at night. Some keep them in for 24 hours but then pull them the next day just before Kicktraqs ends their daily numbers.
This continues to show our ks as losing money because the numbers go up and come down just below the original amount. What this is doing is leading other backers to follow along thinking others are also pulling pledges.
I have emailed ks about this since it is obviously being done to hurt our campaign. I would give up each and every one of these backers by name but this is exactly what they want.
So at this point we know for a fact people are directly trying to hurt our campaign. Can't imagine how pathetic people have to be to do this but I guess in gaming you can't put anything past people.
For the guys actually looking forward to this doing well keep strong. For the ones pulling this crap please find different campaigns to troll. Your game is getting old.

If people are artificially add/dropping pledges this has a net 0 result on Kicktraq. If people are adding these in the morning and then dropping them at night, it seems more likely these are project supporters who are trying to inflate the numbers in the morning and get momentum going for the day to unlock the next stretch goal.

Or it could just be aliens.

The main reason the project is stalling is simple supply/demand. There are a good 1/2 dozen high-profile KS projects going on right now in tabletop all competing for the same chunk of this months disposable income. WWX is on the lower-end of notoriety of those projects. Deadzone is another example. It is a very high-profile project, more so than WWX, and it's creeping very slowly. Mantic, being Mantic, will probably throw in a bunch more freebies to try to compete with projects like Myth or TGG, and it will start to pick up momentum again. At this point the best way to get momentum going is to become a better value than those other projects to try and pull backers over.

Does the 'single faction' option get you all the bonuses from this campaign too?

The 2 x hired hands and the sidekicks and whatnots?

 Alpharius wrote:
Does the 'single faction' option get you all the bonuses from this campaign too?

The 2 x hired hands and the sidekicks and whatnots?

Alpha, it does. Full Stretch goals for the Faction Bundle, as pictured in the graphics on the Kickstarter

 Outlaw_Sean wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Does the 'single faction' option get you all the bonuses from this campaign too?

The 2 x hired hands and the sidekicks and whatnots?

Alpha, it does. Full Stretch goals for the Faction Bundle, as pictured in the graphics on the Kickstarter

Looks like you get the full 26 figures in each faction but not the two free figures and cards.

From Outlaw in the comments:

" Creator Outlaw Miniatures, LLC about 15 hours ago

Single Faction Bundle has been added to the Add-Ons for $70. This Bundle comes with the same 26 models as all other Faction Bundles. It does not come with any additional Add-Ons.
Enjoy guys & gals!"

Tim

That's what I was worried about!

To be honest, it is a short jump from a single faction to a 2x faction, but I'm struggling to stay motivated enough to stay in here.

The $70 bundle is nice for folks strictly interested in a single Faction Bundle, or those willing to upgrade from two factions to three, without going to all four.

It's good to have the option, but the saving (while there) is really minimal.

 Darnok wrote:
The $70 bundle is nice for folks strictly interested in a single Faction Bundle, or those willing to upgrade from two factions to three, without going to all four.

It's good to have the option, but the saving (while there) is really minimal.

The Hired Hands are $25 per box of 10 ($2.50 a fig), so you get the 6 additional figs for $20 ($3.67 per fig).
Gambler is $2.23 per fig for all 56 figs in the pledge.

T

timd wrote:

 Darnok wrote:
The $70 bundle is nice for folks strictly interested in a single Faction Bundle, or those willing to upgrade from two factions to three, without going to all four.

It's good to have the option, but the saving (while there) is really minimal.

The Hired Hands are $25 per box of 10 ($2.50 a fig), so you get the 6 additional figs for $20 ($3.67 per fig).
Gambler is $2.23 per fig for all 56 figs in the pledge.

T

All true. But you can't replicate the Faction Bundle in the KS any other way. And it still is a big saving over the retail price later.

I'm not saying it's the best thing since sliced bread, but that $70 add-on has its place.

 Darnok wrote:

Motograter wrote:
While the game is good, the company and owner are questionable and they do nothing to support the game outside the usa. Currently only wayland have it and we all know how awful they are. Dark Sphere are starting to stock it but once their initial order dries up there is no guarantee outlaw will help them. A lot of European shops that stocked it gave up on it as there is no help from outlaw in any way, shape or form. Good luck getting stock if youre not in the US

This, so very much. Which is a real shame.

Having the same problem myself. BoW had some vids on this and it seemed interesting, but then so do so many other games and at the time I didn't pay it much notice.
Some time later I saw the LOTWII pics on facebook a few times, and found out they had a new KS. Very little interested me in the KS, but I figured I might grab a couple of things, stuff that may be exclusive as I do intend to get into WWX. However with the KS in reverse since the moment I joined I started to get the impression I wouldn't be able to get the things I wanted in the first place, and it's been stuck where it is ever since, doesn't help when what I wanted costs $99 for 10 (or would if it unlocked) and meanwhile the Raging Heroes KS is throwing out $15 works of art. Damn the RH KS makes me wish I hadn't dropped out of GW 2 years ago, their stuff would make for killer Dark Elves and so forth, then there is Mantics way of doing it, sweet stuff cheap, although again it doesn't appeal to me, but here I feel like I am chasing the rainbow.

Never mind, I'll just grab the 2 player starter and hang on in with the KS in the hope it moves up in the last days.
Well, "I'll grab" sod all, it seems it's damn near impossible to find in the UK, Dark Sphere have it advertised, but by the time I pay their shipping costs I might aswell buy it from the USA, Wayland advertise it, they even have it on sale, but it's not in stock, and they have dropped most of their shipping options, so while cheaper than DS, their shipping eats up savings, I ordered Firestorm Armada from them, spent about £6.50 on shipping, kinda defeats the point of the sale, especially as "next day shipping" on something that won't ship for a month sucks ass

Ordering direct from the USA? Customs and conversion fees and so forth just ruin that idea.

I can't help but feel the KS came 2 years too soon, the game doesn't seem to be known of outside of the USA, hell, I can't even find it on Amazon.

With the KS stalled out and no way of getting what I joined the KS for in the first place, and the game seemingly impossible to order from within the UK it's kinda depressing. Bit hard to get into, especially when there are so many games that are easier to get hold of.

I hope the KS sees a last minute boom, and hope more goals are unlocked, but I daren't risk staying in it myself.

timd wrote:

 Outlaw_Sean wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Does the 'single faction' option get you all the bonuses from this campaign too?

The 2 x hired hands and the sidekicks and whatnots?

Alpha, it does. Full Stretch goals for the Faction Bundle, as pictured in the graphics on the Kickstarter

Looks like you get the full 26 figures in each faction but not the two free figures and cards.

From Outlaw in the comments:

" Creator Outlaw Miniatures, LLC about 15 hours ago

Single Faction Bundle has been added to the Add-Ons for $70. This Bundle comes with the same 26 models as all other Faction Bundles. It does not come with any additional Add-Ons.
Enjoy guys & gals!"

Tim

Let me see if I have this right, after you pay the $15 base pledge and add in the $70 bundle, you're paying $85 but getting less than the current $85 pledge.....

I think it is intended to allow you to add an additional faction ontop of what you already ordered, on it's own of course it isn't a great deal, but if you already had a faction pledge in, then it saves you a little on picking a second faction.

Seems about right, Jerram; don't forget to add for shipping! What a deal... *eyeroll*

Yeah, some...odd decisions were made this time around.

I'm surprised it is trailing so far behind their first Kickstarter though.

I hope this doesn't mean this game has lost momentum overall.

But with their current distribution practices, that may be exactly what's going on here.

 Alpharius wrote:
Yeah, some...odd decisions were made this time around.

I'm surprised it is trailing so far behind their first Kickstarter though.

I hope this doesn't mean this game has lost momentum overall.

But with their current distribution practices, that may be exactly what's going on here.

I think the problem is that the perceived value is not nearly as good as the first KS, regardless of whether the actual value is better or worse than the first KS.

At least the $135K "wall" for the last two weeks appears to have been broken.

T

My excitement levels are rising again. Just unlocked a bunch more sidekicks! Also some momentum is always nice. That was a painful stall. Now if only they would release some stat cards for the units...

 Alpharius wrote:
Yeah, some...odd decisions were made this time around.

I'm surprised it is trailing so far behind their first Kickstarter though.

I hope this doesn't mean this game has lost momentum overall.

But with their current distribution practices, that may be exactly what's going on here.

Well, for a start: it's not a new game anymore, but an expansion. So new players have the choice to just get their fix now, instead of waiting a year; and existing players already have a collection, making it a decision of "do I really want to invest so much money now?".

Then the four new faction are quite "marmite-ish" from what I read (and think myself). With the first KS, I liked all four factions (plus Lawmen in the end). With this one? Well... not so much. Every single one of the four new faction is representing a niche in an already niche setting, each appealing for a quite specific taste. The appeal to the "general public" is just not as strong.

On top of that, there are much less extras this time around. The first KS had dice, patches, comics, bags, terrain from the very beginning. Those alone will have made up for a good portion of the pledge total. This time? Yeah... not so much, again.


I think it is less about the game itself going strong or weak. This KS just offers some more "special" things - appealing to less people - while offering less total product.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ClockworkChaos wrote:
Now if only they would release some stat cards for the units...

By Outlaws words this is not going to happen for all of the units. "Not yet playtested" and stuff. Why they start a KS when the models aren't even a bit playtested yet, is beyond me. Just one of the odder things with this company.

How anyone can see comments like these... Well, they don't inspire trust.

As said in the comments:

@Outlaw: So you choose to flip out again without the need to? ... but what's new.

If you had planned it better, you'd playtested these models BEFORE the KS started. Not that difficult to understand really. You chose to do it differently, fair enough. Just don't cry fould if people call you out on it being a weird choice.

I have a question @Outlaw_Sean though. From what I know, you are the "community representative", and since you're active on here, I'll just ask directly: why in the nine hells did my WWX forum account get deleted? I got no warning, no explaination, and wasn't banned either - I was flat-out deleted. In every other community I know you get a warning: if you ignore it (sometimes twice or more), you get banned. This usually results in your posts remaining visible (excepting whatever got you banned in the end).

I got none of this. I didn't post anything offensive either (despite somebody in the KS claiming otherwise). I'd really appreciate if you could shed any light on this.

Wow, was on the fence with this one, but that's some seriously unpleasant and just plain dumb stuff to say-- 100% agree re: not inspiring trust.

From experience on both sides (as consumer and seller), when you're putting yourself and your work out there publicly, lots of people are going to say things you feel are stupid, uninformed, and/or occasionally mean. As the face of your product, you've gotta keep smiling, not explode at someone who's pushing your buttons.

Is this one still stalling? Less than 48 hours to go, very little growth, and Outlaw seems nowhere to be seen. It looks like a stretch goal update was due almost a day ago?

carboncopy wrote:
Is this one still stalling? Less than 48 hours to go, very little growth, and Outlaw seems nowhere to be seen. It looks like a stretch goal update was due almost a day ago?

I'd call them out on it being a bad idea to plan a KS ending right after a weekend with very little input from their side - but I guess I'd get some more of that "negativity" crap thrown at me.

Just my opinion though: the planning on this KS was not that good. First the absolutely ridiculous stretchgoals, then their complete disappearance for almost a week because of attending two Cons, now the ending with a period of almost no updates, and going quiet just when the 48h-reminders got sent out. Some of that was due to too high expectations on their side I guess, but some other things were just poorly planned.

It's good to see that despite all this the KS is still going relatively strong. Funded more than twice over, and all stretchgoals needed for "full factions" (i.e.: HH, bosses, a selection of underbosses and sidekicks, LS and HS) achieved or almost achieved. That's a good success. They could have done much better in my opinion, but what we got so far isn't shabby either.

Still a couple of days to go, but it does seem to have an atypical end of KS 'finish' vibe going.

Who knows though - these things can spike quickly!

Well, we're a good bit into the last 48 hours by now. If there is one "last hurrah", it better happens tomorrow at the latest.

They've unlocked the light and heavy support options early, so that might help.

Of course it made be realize how ridiculous the prices are in heavy support options - even at KS prices, never mind 'retail'!

I don't really much like WWX's 'heavy support' options anyway, and almost none of their vehicles, so it doesn't matter too much, but still!

 Alpharius wrote:
They've unlocked the light and heavy support options early, so that might help.

Of course it made be realize how ridiculous the prices are in heavy support options - even at KS prices, never mind 'retail'!

I don't really much like WWX's 'heavy support' options anyway, and almost none of their vehicles, so it doesn't matter too much, but still!

What's even worse is this statement directly from Outlaw that they don't appear to intend to uphold the KS pricing for late additions through the KS pledge manager. Yikes.

 Pugnacious_Cee wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
They've unlocked the light and heavy support options early, so that might help.

Of course it made be realize how ridiculous the prices are in heavy support options - even at KS prices, never mind 'retail'!

I don't really much like WWX's 'heavy support' options anyway, and almost none of their vehicles, so it doesn't matter too much, but still!

What's even worse is this statement directly from Outlaw that they don't appear to intend to uphold the KS pricing for late additions through the KS pledge manager. Yikes.

I really really hope that is a misunderstanding or they will just keep the prices the same and are just saying that so people keep their pledges for the KS. I mean I actually cannot add more money as I keep my credit card limits low (financial responsibility and all that) so I just cannot pledge more now. It not that I dont want to but I just dont have the money or ability to do so. Later at pledge manager? Yes. Now? Impossible.

That is odd wording.

If they don't keep the same pricing during the Pledge Manager time frame, well, that will see me adding in $0.00 then.

I think they'll keep the same pricing during the Pledge Manager - it would be foolish not to do so.

Well it may well mean less extra money during the PM,

but I don't see anything wrong with a company choosing not to give the same KS discount to 'late' money (or late backers), since it hasn't been handed over during the KS period

although don't get me wrong I'm quite happy if they do, and do tend to take advantage of such generosity when they do,

but we should not expect it as a 'right'

No one's demanding it along with their basic Civil Rights - but it would be foolish to not extend it.

Still, who knows here?

At the end of the day, March got real crowded real quick in terms of Kickstarters - something had to give for me too - and this time out it was WWX.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Well it may well mean less extra money during the PM,

but I don't see anything wrong with a company choosing not to give the same KS discount to 'late' money (or late backers), since it hasn't been handed over during the KS period

although don't get me wrong I'm quite happy if they do, and do tend to take advantage of such generosity when they do,

but we should not expect it as a 'right'

No, but its kind of shooting yourself in the foot. Basically you get more money, and keep a higher percentage, since Kickstarter doesn't take a cut. Also, you don't have to deliver stretch goals based off those new funds.

Fortunately that doesnt seem to be the case here.

"Creator Outlaw Miniatures, LLC about 15 hours ago
@ NEIL BATES: the prices will stay the same during the pledge manager as they are on the campaign. Just remember that if you add them later it does not help us unlock free items or more models. Thanks guys"

Well, that's good news then - I had to cut back here due to the whole "Too Many KS in March" FWP, but I'll probably bump i back up later on...

Ok so I am heading to bed but before that, just to catch up with everyone. They unlocked the light and heavy support stretch goals and then moved up the girls of the west and have that unlocked also. So if you were hesitating- each faction is now fully fleshed out and is good to go. Any of these can do huge battles with all the other released factions.








Get in your pledges while you still can. These deals are pretty sweet.

Also someone should check but are the girls a KS exclusive?

*It appears from the comments that they are KS and convention exclusive but the low price is KS exclusive. You will be able to add them to pledge manager. I really dig these chicks.

A lot of companies offer their KS exclusives at the next few conventions when they are finished. That's pretty standard.

Can we get individual Ladies of the West, or is it ALL OR NOTHING with them?

I'd hazard the guess it's an all-or-nothing thing, but who honestly knows at this point? So many things have swapped and changed in the last two days anything is possible.

I think the last lot of ladies were all on one sprue?

which probably means these will be as well

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I think the last lot of ladies were all on one sprue?

which probably means these will be as well

They were individual resin casts.

They were - and available individually.

These look to be a WWX version of the KD Pinups - only not as 'generic' and useable by all factions.

At a stretch, I'd want the Lawmen, Union, Holy Order, Outlaw and maybe the Golden Army versions.

$20 each for a plastic mini is a bit of a non-starter for me...

Yes, maybe I could sell/trade the others?

Yeah - maybe!

You named exactly the popular ones. Good luck trading the fugly rest.

I could probably unload the Confederate, Warrior Nation and maybe the Dark Nation ones?

Maybe?

But yeah, too many probably and maybe statements in the equation....

$178.505 in the end. KickTraq info is here.

Quite an odd campaign in my opinion, with some really weird strategic decisions inbetween (constant shifting of stretchgoals, strange timing for the end), and a Romeo Filip showing his ugliest sides proudly in the open more than once. That guy needs a therapy.

Other than that: still a great product - game, background and models - with a serious boost in variety now.

Are we sure that was Romeo?

Wow, underwhelming. I expected it to do at least as well as last campaign, even in this busy time. Maybe that's intended though - higher profit margins post-kickstarter.

It looked like their freelance painter supported the campaign more than Outlaw did (For the game's sake, hopefully this painter doesn't get chased away like the last one). Darnok, it looks like even you did a better job answering question across the campaign. I know everyone wants their weekends and need sleep and all that, but they should show up for the last 48 hours of their campaign?

My impression is that Outlaw doesn't accept criticism well and has alienated most of his strongest community proselytizers. I didn't even see the poster-boy Ironclad from the last campaign show up. That guy was great and should have been hired as a community manager.

I guess I'm critical of all of this since I do think it is has a possibility of being a very good IP, and would like to see that, but really needs some kind of direction to get there.

 Alpharius wrote:
Are we sure that was Romeo?

The account information says so. Unless he lets an even more ill-tempered person post for himself - and gave that same person access to his admin account in the WWX forum to delete me there weeks ago - I assume that yes, that was (and still is) Romeo himself posting there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

carboncopy wrote:
I guess I'm critical of all of this since I do think it is has a possibility of being a very good IP, and would like to see that, but really needs some kind of direction to get there.

The way I understand Outlaw_Sean (active on their own forums and over here) is the person responsible for community support. I just wish they would let HIM do the talking during the KS.

Romeo himself should stay away from anything that isn't strictly core business. I think he has a good hand for that, but would advice he kept his mouth shut in any and all customer relations. He has proven time and again to be a complete idiot in that field.

ClockworkChaos wrote:
Ok so I am heading to bed but before that, just to catch up with everyone. They unlocked the light and heavy support stretch goals and then moved up the girls of the west and have that unlocked also. So if you were hesitating- each faction is now fully fleshed out and is good to go. Any of these can do huge battles with all the other released factions.

Spoiler:

Get in your pledges while you still can. These deals are pretty sweet.

Also someone should check but are the girls a KS exclusive?

*It appears from the comments that they are KS and convention exclusive but the low price is KS exclusive. You will be able to add them to pledge manager. I really dig these chicks.

Dangit, Wouldn't you know that they would finally put something up that I was interested in... just close enough to the deadline that it's over before I know about it?

The way I understand Outlaw_Sean (active on their own forums and over here) is the person responsible for community support. I just wish they would let HIM do the talking during the KS.

Romeo himself should stay away from anything that isn't strictly core business. I think he has a good hand for that, but would advice he kept his mouth shut in any and all customer relations. He has proven time and again to be a complete idiot in that field.

Exalted just for this. I really really wish they would do this. Stick to what they are good at and do not do what they are terrible at. Sean should stick to community (seems chill, friendly, informed=good), Romeo is business oriented so stay behind the curtain man! Please for the sake of your company listen to this!

Buzzsaw wrote:

ClockworkChaos wrote:
Ok so I am heading to bed but before that, just to catch up with everyone. They unlocked the light and heavy support stretch goals and then moved up the girls of the west and have that unlocked also. So if you were hesitating- each faction is now fully fleshed out and is good to go. Any of these can do huge battles with all the other released factions.

Spoiler:

Get in your pledges while you still can. These deals are pretty sweet.

Also someone should check but are the girls a KS exclusive?

*It appears from the comments that they are KS and convention exclusive but the low price is KS exclusive. You will be able to add them to pledge manager. I really dig these chicks.

Dangit, Wouldn't you know that they would finally put something up that I was interested in... just close enough to the deadline that it's over before I know about it?

Well if you are just looking for a few I am going to get them but I do not need them all. I plan to keep most but if you wanted the golden army girl or DN I could work those out as for the others (outlaw maybe) (WN maybe) (union maybe), but I like the look of the rest. If you want them all maybe consider piggybacking on someone else pledge?

Just found this one:

http://seethingginger.matchfire.net/tag/romeo-filip/

An enlightening read for me, mirrors my experience quite well (no podcast from me though).

Haha yup, poor Tionas. I remember when that happened well, because when it started I was still their most active forum moderator.

But, after a cascading series of events that are all pretty ridiculous, I can say that I was first stripped of moderator status with no warning or message or anything, and then banned at one point in a similar fashion; I spoke with Sean on Facebook after that ban and they let me back in but put the title "Proletariat Pug" on my username (go look up what proletariat means... I'll wait. See? Yup.). Then, I suppose the final straw was disagreeing with the Kickstarter in a general sense on their Facebook posts and commenting back when they called me a troll and told me to go back under my bridge. A day or two before the KS started I found myself removed from all Facebook groups, blocked from commenting on the official WWX posts, blocked by Sean and Romeo personally on Facebook, and banned/deleted from the forums. When the KS actually did go up I backed for the Golden Army and sent them a message asking what the deal was, saying that we don't have to get along but to block me from any and everything was crazy, and I was essentially told "too bad".

I removed my pledge because I honestly didn't trust them to send it to me, given my past interactions with them and seeing how they handle things. Hell when I was a moderator it took over 6 months to get comic book #3 from my PAID SUBSCRIPTION for the comic, while people who had simply gotten the comic from the first KS had it months before me... and that was when we were on good terms. And now I feel justified in that decision to pull the pledge, seeing them says things like this:
"Creator Outlaw Miniatures, LLC about 4 hours ago
@Darnok, don't worry we will refund you that $1 and any other order you place with us in the future."

Such a bummer. It's not the best game out there, but I have had a lot of fun with it. I guess I'll just see what happens a year or so from now and whether I'll be able to buy the Golden Army anywhere except direct from their website. I sure haven't been able to get any Holy Order stuff from a third party, that's for sure.

That's not the kind of interaction many consumers are looking for when they wish that company's were more involved with their fans/customer base!

Hard to believe they'd go to those lengths over what basically amounts to...nothing?

You sure you didn't do something to set that whole chain of events in motion?

The start of it was when I chose to no longer create a podcast about their game and gave it over to my co-host and his friend to continue if they chose to do so.

I by no means exclude myself from any blame; I clearly have issues with keeping my mouth shut. But if you put it out on paper, it's pretty much an emotionally-charged bitterness towards me resulting from my backing away from pushing their product as a fan after partaking in their premier Adepticon tournament in 2014.

 Alpharius wrote:
They've unlocked the light and heavy support options early, so that might help.

Of course it made be realize how ridiculous the prices are in heavy support options - even at KS prices, never mind 'retail'!

I was a bit shocked by the prices at AdeptiCon - they had a big, really cool booth, and some of the sculpts were beautiful (they had the snake from this new campaign, I believe, along with a lot of the current minis).

But I was looking at a small buggy, which I think fit on a 40mm base... and when he said the price I thought for sure he was referring to bigger model in the case and he had to clarify that no, it was the price for the small one I was looking at

I love some of the designs, though, and may pick up a few for use in other systems... but the price was a real deterrent.

 Pugnacious_Cee wrote:
And now I feel justified in that decision to pull the pledge, seeing them says things like this:
"Creator Outlaw Miniatures, LLC about 4 hours ago
@Darnok, don't worry we will refund you that $1 and any other order you place with us in the future."

I had to bite my tongue to not get back on this in the comments, but finally chose to just let it be.

That statement is basically trolling, and nothing a professional should say to a customer, ever. And if you think about it: it's not even something he can realistically enforce (other than the "$1 refund", but we already know that Romeo usually doesn't stay up to such claims). So yeah, not only trolling, but stupid trolling.

As a curiosity Darnok, did you really pledge $1 as Romeo claims, or is that claim false?

I noticed that during this campaign, there were much fewer sockpuppets and astroturfing running around various forums pretending to be interested parties.

We haven't had a Romeorage episode in 2014. I guess he's making up for lost time? please don't sue me

darnok and outlaw remind me of my two kids in the back of the car... dad hes looking at me, im not looking at her, dad hes looking at me again, im not looking at her...

at least darnok always adds the caveat of but its a great game even though I honestly think its just to try and rile them up more.

anyone who says im not buying X because I don't like the guy running the business is silly. youre not playing with the guy so who cares.

I cant believe that this thread stayed open the whole time. it ended up being nothing but a bitch fest. we get it, romeo is bad at PR.

 Absolutionis wrote:


I noticed that during this campaign, there were much fewer sockpuppets and astroturfing running around various forums pretending to be interested parties.

That was noticeable this time around, wasn't it?

Last campaign we certainly had a lot more...Interested Parties in attendance here and everywhere.
shirr
It was what gave rise to my OVERBOSS SHERIFF ALPHA persona.

At least he still pops up now and again...

Absolutionis wrote:As a curiosity Darnok, did you really pledge $1 as Romeo claims, or is that claim false?

At least that statement of his is correct.*

As for why I did that: I don't have a credit card, but a close friend (and backer of both WWX kickstarters) has. Since it's saving us on P&P, I'm "pledging" via him; the $1 pledge (I gave him account access to do it for me) was for comment rights and upping the backer number. I also wanted to ask questions directly, and help out people where I could. That went quite well... for a while.

usernamesareannoying wrote:at least darnok always adds the caveat of but its a great game even though I honestly think its just to try and rile them up more.

But I do think it's a great game. I pledged big in the first KS, bought many models since then, and added a good bit of money to my friends pledge (see above). If Romeo hadn't rage-deleted my account on their forums, I could show you many examples of me supporting the game and its players over there. It's not as vocal, but I'm supportive of WWX over at WarSeer where I can (rarely any players active there though). You won't hear me saying a bad thing about the game.



P.S.: * ... I do think it is not his right to share that information with the public though. If I want to state my pledge amount, that's my business, not his. On top of that I don't think it is "bad form" to pledge $1 for comments and updates anyway - I've added my fair share to the pledge total another way.

From Wayland Games:

We are very proud to announce that Wayland Games is now the EXCLUSIVE UK distributor for Wild West Exodus.

We will be working closely with Outlaw Miniatures to ensure the full range is stocked and ready to go. If you just can't wait to get your hands on some WWX miniatures come and see us at Salute where we will have shelves stacked full of them!

Hopefully this helps WWX gain more traction in the UK and the rest of Europe!

So Darksphere is out then? Or do I mix something up? The online store who made WWX available too, after fans asked for it... now not any more?

Also: doesn't "exclusive" mean that no other store in the UK is allowed to carry the WWX range? How is having only one store in the UK selling your product a good thing?

The full stock being available at Wayland in a timely manner is great though. If this turns out to work, that is.

And that officially kills any interest in the uk or europe if we need to rely on wayland games. Awful decision, truly awful

Well isnt Wayland games one of the biggest distributors in the uk so from a sheer numbers perspective isn't it a good choice? At the very least having regular stock to the UK is at least working on the problems they had. So it has got to count as a step in the right direction vs no real stock to the UK or Europe.

Look for reviews on wayland games and youll see why its an awful choice

 Darnok wrote:
So Darksphere is out then? Or do I mix something up? The online store who made WWX available too, after fans asked for it... now not any more?

Also: doesn't "exclusive" mean that no other store in the UK is allowed to carry the WWX range? How is having only one store in the UK selling your product a good thing?

The full stock being available at Wayland in a timely manner is great though. If this turns out to work, that is.

Hi Darnok,

just to clarify we have had WWX in stock since it was first launched, and brought it to Salute last year.

Exclusive distribution means that if stores want to carry WWX in the UK they should approach our Distro arm. Retailers are more than welcome to stock it. We want it as widely available as possible.

However distribution of smaller and new ranges is a risky adventure. We have learnt to our cost before on other ranges. It means risking significant funds to something of an unknown. Having a distributor means a lot of the logistical issues of transporting the product - which add to cost are dealt with in advance. We have some sales data for WWX, we wont know we have the numbers right for some time. There will always be items in and out of stock, it is impossible to have everything in the stock all the time, there are always issues within and without our control that can have an impact. We can judge demand incorrectly, there can be weather, manufacturing, demand spikes etc. As an example a slow moving boardgame that we might sell 5 a year sold hundreds in a few days when Tabletop covered Betrayal at House on the Hill. Would you expect every retailer to have hundreds of copies of it lying around just in case there was a spike in demand that they had no warning of? Its a tricky balancing act. Really really really tricky.

Regarding negative reviews of Wayland, I know of no other Independent retailer in Europe that has full time and dedicated support staff available 7 days a week. We ship more orders weekly and promptly than any other independent retailer, but there will always be orders with delays and issues, in this market. We invest heavily in constant improvement and stock, we invest constantly in new ranges. We are a victim of scale sometimes, a delay in an order from most retailers might impact a handful of customers, for us it can impact and upset hundreds. We ship hundreds and hundreds of some products on release. When we read posts attacking the business, it hurts as we inside the company know how hard we work at getting customers their orders as quickly as possibly. Everyone is committed to doing a good job.


Anyway we hope to see as many of you as possible at Salute.

I can guarantee you that you don't ship more than any other retailer. Element games wipes the floor with you lot on that one by a mile. Guaranteed next day delivery if you order before four. Ordering through you lot takes assuming you even have stock(rare) it takes about a week plus you charge more

Wiping the floor? I must respectfully disagree with you there. We have easily more than 10,000 packages shipping through our Warehouse every month so it's unlikely that Element Games or any small games store is even on the same page to be honest.

I understand that you might see a number of complaints from customers of ours and assume that we are the size of a regular FLGS and so they represent a significant proportion of the customers involved. Thankfully we have the vast majority (over 98.5%) of orders successfully delivered to satisfied customers every day. We wouldn't be in business for as long as we have, with as many customers as we have for very long otherwise!

The reality is that if you have received hobby goods from a Kickstarter, bought a roleplay book from one of several popular studios or even bought pet food or clothing, the chances are that you have received a package from our company - even if you have never bought anything from Wayland Games webstore. With an expanding branded high street retail chain, a large warehouse complex, over a quarter of a million pounds sterling in development and infrastructure undertaken in just the last four months, and new initiatives into manufacturing and design due to bear fruit next year - Wayland Games is a real force in the industry.

Criticism is always a bitter pill to swallow. I've heard someone say that Wayland was the worst thing to happen to the hobby industry (which was just his reaction to the the advent of the Wayland hobby blog, but this industry is a little odd like that!). That said it is bitterly disappointing when any customer has difficulty with an order and we are continuing to work at improving things. I am aware that in certain quarters the company does not have as good a reputation as the hard working people within it deserve, but we are working to change that. Our new website communicates stock levels better than ever before, and for Wild West Exodus it will showcase the real commitment we are making to Outlaw with tens of thousands of pounds of stock going through our warehouse from now on.

I'm really excited that we can use our huge reach to bring Wild West Exodus to many retailers and customers across the UK and beyond. Rather than pre-judge the situation, come to our stand at Salute (you won't be able to miss us!) or pop into one of our FLGS and ask for a demo of WWX. We're going to be working hard to share this great game with as many people as possible!

Good news everyone!

Fingers crossed your restock of WWX also includes my order from the 16/3/15

It can only be good news if this contract helps you guys spped up the time it takes to get restocked.

Element posted my order yesterday at 5 and it arrived this morning and for less postage first class than you charge for second. Not at salute nor do I live down south to see your stores. Plus I'm also blocked for making a joke on your facebook

Alas ti.e will tell if you get your act together and actually hold stock.

Maelstrom, total wargamer they used to also be good. Look what happened there

That sounds super Motograter.

To help ease your fears, here's a few photos of the first part of our new stock that we flew in today from our North American arm. It's unfortunately just the tip of what we have coming but gives us plenty to put on a strong showing at Salute for the game as well as fulfil customer orders.

Awesome very excited hope to demo the game to my wife and bro in-law over the mayday bank holiday.

Any starter boxes in?

Motograter wrote:
Any starter boxes in?

I hope so as that's what I ordered lol

There are two-player starters in the top photo, to the right.

I guess I'm resurrecting a bit of a dead thread here, but Outlaw Miniatures had made their rules available for free:

http://wildwestexodus.com/content/Wild_West_Exodus_Rules_FREE_2015.pdf

It's a bit of a surprise and a bit of a shame how dead this thread has become!

Has the game itself stalled in its efforts to grow and expand?

Maybe due to the distribution system OUTLAW/Romeo went with?

Maybe. I think it might be a problem with the fact that they went with two big kickstarters to get their factions out, but then a really slow release schedule when it came to non-kickstarter miniatures - just look at the lack of choices in Holy Order compared to the rest of the line.

As for a more personal reason, I was getting into the game and there looked to be a decent scene going at one of the nearby FLGSs. But then orders had trouble coming in, and the store owner got into a bit of a online spat with Romeo on the WWX Facebook page. So the store has soured on the game a bit.

Anyone had a change to read the free rules?
Any updates or changes from the printed book?

Ever since the announcement that they will be distributed through Southern Hobby, I've been on my local store to get stuff in for me.

Since Southern Hobby has a happit of saying they carry things and then putting them on permanent preorder, I'm waiting til they get anything WWX related in before I try pushing the game there

ClockworkChaos wrote:
Well isnt Wayland games one of the biggest distributors in the uk so from a sheer numbers perspective isn't it a good choice? At the very least having regular stock to the UK is at least working on the problems they had. So it has got to count as a step in the right direction vs no real stock to the UK or Europe.

I placed an order with Wayland for WWX stuff and it took SEVEN WEEKS for my stuff to arrive and it was a large order where i had given them a lot of money too.... I phoned them up several times only to be told they 'cant go into details as to their stock/ordering processes'.... It took so long that eventually i actually contacted Outlaw directly to try and get to the bottom of why it was taking so long and i was told they had not received any further orders from Wayland since i first placed the order for stuff that was and wasnt in stock....... ridiculous.... they could have at least sent what was in stock now and the rest later but they wouldnt even do that which other companys will happily do (element games) and yeah its a shame because WWX is a great game and Wayland are IMO one of the worst if not the worst UK distributor. I think they helped promote the game at some events though and is likely how they acquired this exclusivity deal...

Our Black Friday sale is almost here. Some hefty discounts to be had! If you missed out on the last kickstarter, you can pre-order those items at a discount. Here is what's happening.

- All Kickstarter Items Pre-Order 15% OFF
- All Plastic Models 40% OFF
- All Resin Models 30% OFF
- All Mixed (ex. starter boxes) 35% OFF
- Rulebooks & Media 50% OFF
- Outlaw & Bandit Bags 40% OFF
- Micro Art Studios Terrain 10% OFF
- Templates, Tokens & Bases 10% OFF

- No discount on army bundles or Ladies of the West 2

Could someone tell me what current WWE models are hard plastic?

I know most are in resin, but there are apparently a few already in circulation in hard plastic, too. Which ones?

(Not including the pre-order HIPS kits. I know about those, and plan on getting some Watchers on Friday.)

The hired hands in 10-packs are all HIPS, I believe.

The hired hands and the special weapons for hired hands are all in HIPS plastic the rest are cast in resin.

How does one pre-order the KS stuff? Link just goes to the KS page.

Thanks,

Tim

News/update on the kickstarter and entire product line. Looks like WWX is going completely digital. There will be no more physical cards sold or included with miniatures. Cards will be printable online and there will be an army builder program. The purpose is to allow for faster updating of older cards to keep things balance.

https://www.facebook.com/WildWestExodus/posts/782098321919479


There are also tons of pictures of new production resin models on WWX's facebook page and their forums. Check it out!

Not a popular decision based on comments and feedback so far across Facebook, the wwx forum and Kickstarter

Considering how quickly cards became obsolete in their game (sometimes pre-ordering the model and the model's rules being changed before you received it), this is pretty much the only thing they can do that makes sense. Assuming they continue to change things at the rate they have been.

It will make it tough on a TO, though, unless they add something to the front of the cards with a revision date. Otherwise a TO could have to sit and go through every single player's cards to make sure they're up-to-date.

The regular changes concern me, it hints at deeper play testing issues, I love the game but regular changes don't allow things to settle.

I'm also a little disappointed at their abrupt 'this is best' responses to the various comments and questions. A lot of disappointment is coming from Kickstarter backers of 2/3/4 armies meaning a whole load of printing, but the response is hardly reassuring

Azhek, as a backer of the first and second kickstarter (I own the entire line and am one of the all in backers on this kickstarter), there really haven't been that many changes so far. The biggest changes were making hired hands cheaper (so there are updated cards for those) and making the law bots cheaper (they got updated twice). The changes were all made based on community feedback and because many weren't using hired hands before the changes. I bought all the updated cards for every faction as I own the entire line, It cost me somewhere around 12 dollars IIRC.

I spoke with WWX staff, the mass changes they are speaking of is due to the implementation of WWX 2.0 in 2016. Kickstarter backers are getting models that are being released before the 2.0 rules come out. These new models have new abilities, some of which are quite powerful.

The 2.0 rules have new abilities, updated rules, etc. They are also going to update the entire line with the new rules so the old models aren't underpowered or obsolete (none of the models are obsolete right now, they are all balanced).

So the whole point of this is that they will be updating the entire line's rule cards within the next few months, and kickstarter backers would have to purchase new cards for every model they now own. I know most would buy the cards, but they don't want folks to feel cheated. Due to this new direction, all their cards are posted on their website for free and can be printed by anyone (or taken somewhere and professionally printed... but I have not yet found a financially viable place to do this yet with their pdf's).

I would prefer an option to purchase the cards from the WWX store, as well as being able to self print, but overall they are making a good choice that will help the community in the long run - especially for new players. My suggestion is go to their site, print off some cards, proxy the models, and try the game out!

The game is great, and the storyline is rich, you won't regret it.

I'm also an all in backer this time round (missed the first one but still have most factions), I agree long term it's no issue.
The annoyance for me is the need to print cards for everything new, and the outlaw response to that is 'you don't have to print them' which is true, but realistically you're going to need them or a tablet full of PDFs to play outside of your own home.

I love the game I'm just a little jaded right now as other games have cropped up whilst I've been waiting on unfinished business and it's just an extra hassle when the option of buying cards would have been no big thing


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I know the changes haven't been excessive yet, and that the next batch are a overhaul. I was talking more in reference to the use of the term 'on the fly' regarding future changes.

Well maybe that could be an option in the future. If they have the files (which they do as they are posted for free), they could possibly do a print to order option on their site for those without printers or a print option. I'm guessing it would cost more than the replacement cards do now, but I don't know outlaw miniatures business logistics.

I think that option along side the printable option would be great for everyone. However that is ultimately up to the folks at outlaw miniatures.

In the meantime im sure if someone finds a good third party printer they will let the community know. Until that happens i have started saving all their card pdfs to my pc.

Have you seen the cards from this kickstarter yet? Peterson's card as well as most of the ladies of the west are posted on their downloads page. They are looking like beasts!

Is the army builder program going to be an app for mobile devices and tablets? That seems like an easy way to get card/unit information out to players. Throw it on the Android and Apple market places and be done.

Not sure, it sounded more like a battlescribe type program for a pc though and not an ap from what i heard. I'm sure if it isn't an app it could become an app with enough backer support.

They've stated its not an app, so I think the battlescribe style thing will be the case.

I do hope someone finds a viable print option that isn't reliant on my little printer.

I'm also surprised to discover Sean has left the company, leaving Romeo as the head guy. His reputation does him no favours

Romeo was always the head guy. Sean was just pushed forward to the community because Romeo is (deservedly) reviled.

Honestly printing your own cards, if you have access to a decent printer and get some decent stock to print on, should be on par with the quality of what they were doing. I don't know what garage they were printing those things out of, but their size wasn't consistent at all. If you have a heap of old cards, stack them; they don't line up. And there have been plenty of other changes over time beyond the hired hands and the lawbots. Everything from Fredrickson (several revisions), what factions certain models work for, light support models (primarily the guys on foot, both how you're able to take them as well as what their weapons actually do, but also some of the vehicles), heavy support models, etc. It doesn't do Outlaw or this game any favors to gloss over stuff like how many changes they've made and/or how often they've made them. I don't know if they do NOW, but I know that for years before now, there were no external playtest teams, so it all came from their office.

For a lot of people the lack of decent printer is the issue (and ink cost).
I don't like the decision but I do understand it from their business point of view (I completely reject their assertion it costs them money to no longer include cards), but their bullish responses to disappointed backers and existing players has been really disheartening. One backer asked whether the cards would be included with Kickstarter as per the pledge levels and was accused of damaging the community.

Also their stock response to those that don't have access to a printer is 'use the army builder and print the sheet out, everyone can print one sheet'

I just noticed today that Wargames Vault offers print-on-demand for Malifaux cards. I wonder if an arrangement could be made with Outlaw to do the same for WWX.

I am one without a printer, as I have little need for one at home and can easily print a few pages on occasion from the office for things that are truly important. Somehow I think printing 100+ pages in full color will get me in trouble, lol.

Not sure what I am going to do yet, but I imagine new solutions will present themselves in time. If not, there are plenty of other fish in the sea.

ahzek wrote:
One backer asked whether the cards would be included with Kickstarter as per the pledge levels and was accused of damaging the community.

Welcome to the exciting world of being a WWX fan!

I'd heard the rumours but wasn't involved in the first Kickstarter so hadn't realised the attitude was so poor

Nevermind.

Not sure what happened there, but...

I feel like 2016 will be a 'make or break' year for WWX and...me!

I really like the models, but I can't find anyone in the area to get a game with, and I already have plenty of systems like that.

The last KS didn't have many (any?) model that worked for me...

And I've been getting more into DARK AGE now too.

Maybe WWX can get me fired up again - but...it isn't looking likely.

But who know?

Yeah, sorry about that. I originally posted a link to some news for WWX, and then expressed some concerns I had with what lies ahead for the game. However, I felt it to be worthless venting so I wanted to delete it but didn't see an option to do so. Let's just say at this point I'm regretting buying so much for this game. I may change my mind depending on how things play out, but hopes for that are low, TBH.

Whats the deal with this Romeo guy, why is he so disliked?

Aggressive business tactics and a personality that can rub most people the wrong way.

 Alpharius wrote:
I really like the models, but I can't find anyone in the area to get a game with, and I already have plenty of systems like that.

This is the new issue with the hobby. There's now so many games on the market is super easy to find a game that's really made for you, but because there's so many games other people are doing the same thing and obviously have different interests.

It is a good game, but as said before, nobody plays.
It is a game where you need to buy 2 armies, so you can let an opponent play your back up army.

But many games are like that now.

Especially because of kickstarter. Lots of games you can't find in stores and have to buy direct from the company

http://thed6generation.com/d6g-ep-181-guildball-detailed-review-and-battlefoam-wwx-update

plenty of WWX chat from Romeo from 1:20 onwards on the latest D6G podcast

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
http://thed6generation.com/d6g-ep-181-guildball-detailed-review-and-battlefoam-wwx-update

plenty of WWX chat from Romeo from 1:20 onwards on the latest D6G podcast

Thanks for posting this, great podcast I wasnt aware of.

The new owners of this fine property have started an Official Dakka Dakka Wild West Exodus Thread:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/708649.page

Please go there for all the latest - thanks!