Relying on enemy souls could be a huge problem vs Cryx or Minions.

The cover for the next No Quarter Prime issue out in July. It’s all about the Crucible Guard.

 malfred wrote:
From facebook: Eiryss minicrate model. I forget which month things fall on.

Looks nice.
But the thing I don't get, is why does it always have to be a usable, in-game model?
And, why is it always a Merc or Minion model?

I cancelled my sub last month because of this. I was hoping to see more models that were for the hobby side.
And, I was hoping to see some more creative things like the con stuff - more factions, more cool models and takes on a theme.

The Eiryss is nice. But another Merc model is getting tired. I'd like to see what they can do with the other factions.

 Ghool wrote:

 malfred wrote:
From facebook: Eiryss minicrate model. I forget which month things fall on.

Looks nice.
But the thing I don't get, is why does it always have to be a usable, in-game model?
And, why is it always a Merc or Minion model?

I cancelled my sub last month because of this. I was hoping to see more models that were for the hobby side.
And, I was hoping to see some more creative things like the con stuff - more factions, more cool models and takes on a theme.

The Eiryss is nice. But another Merc model is getting tired. I'd like to see what they can do with the other factions.

As a guess,

1. usable models sell
2. merc/minions have the widest uses

 Nova_Impero wrote:
The cover for the next No Quarter Prime issue out in July. It’s all about the Crucible Guard.

Spoiler:

Who's the big dude on the left cosplaying as Mortarion? Can't seem to see any card for him in the Crucible Guard deck.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Nova_Impero wrote:
The cover for the next No Quarter Prime issue out in July. It’s all about the Crucible Guard.

Spoiler:

Who's the big dude on the left cosplaying as Mortarion? Can't seem to see any card for him in the Crucible Guard deck.

That's Alyce.

http://battlecollege.org/index.php/File:Alyce_Marc.jpg

The colours on the illustrations look much better than the paint job on the models.

 .Mikes. wrote:
The colours on the illustrations look much better than the paint job on the models.

They sure are. This "poster" is a much more attractive as a promo for a faction. maybe they will put it on some book cover... but a full size poster would be much better! In fact, it is tempting me to at least consider a model or two from this range.

 malfred wrote:

 Ghool wrote:

 malfred wrote:
From facebook: Eiryss minicrate model. I forget which month things fall on.

Looks nice.
But the thing I don't get, is why does it always have to be a usable, in-game model?
And, why is it always a Merc or Minion model?

I cancelled my sub last month because of this. I was hoping to see more models that were for the hobby side.
And, I was hoping to see some more creative things like the con stuff - more factions, more cool models and takes on a theme.

The Eiryss is nice. But another Merc model is getting tired. I'd like to see what they can do with the other factions.

As a guess,

1. usable models sell
2. merc/minions have the widest uses

Oh I understand that they're going for broadest appeal from the dedicated fan base.
I was just hoping that Minicrate would have been something for everyone that wasn't a dedicated fan.

Official concept for the Retribution of Scyrah Battle Engine The Trident

Dawnguard Trident: The Trident is a telekinetic Dawnguard manned flying tank. It has three slightly modified thresher cannons. The goal for this model is to bring a rather large amount of ranged fire power along side some utility. We have intentionally tied both of these ideas into the same resource making the player choose between utility or additional fire power. It should be durable but not incredibly so.

I would also like to mention that because of how the nature of the Retribution CID came about, this model will NOT follow the normal release pattern for CID cycles. Normally the new models are released about 3 months after the cycle. The Trident will be released farther out than that. We decided to test it's rules early and with these other options so players could talk about the interactions with this model in mind.

September minicrate, Eiryss2!

That's a beauty of a model!

So have PP officially said that Black anchor is main target for Faction 'secondary' battle engines? I assume this Dawnguard Trident will be on there, and we've got at least 3 on there currently.

It would make sense, as they may be somewhat of a niche item, but I like that they still make them.

Do we know if there will be more Gargantuans/Collossals on there? I love my Dragodile, but I need some sort of Giant Farrow Gargantuan (Either some kind of Giant Franken-Pig, or perhaps a Piggy version of the Skaven Hellpit Abomination?).

It’s pretty much where anything huge based that’s not plastic will go from now on.

 AduroT wrote:
It’s pretty much where anything huge based that’s not plastic will go from now on.

Except the Vulcan so far.

BAHI models have been:

Dracodile
Beer Wagon
Ghost Ship Skarre
Exemplar Church
Manowar chariots

https://store.privateerpress.com/black-anchor-heavy-industries

upcoming known BAHI that they're releasing rules for tomorrow:

Skorne Giant Ancestral thing

in the works/probably BAHI:

Druid floating well thing
Dawnguard trident spaceship thing


Still unsure:

Mackay/Railless for the crucible guard

Speaking of the new skorne battle engine...

Still wish it was in a more interesting pose, but what with them being giant animated statues, I guess I shouldn't complain too much.

Is this going to be regular Privateer or Black Anchor?

Most likely BAHI

It's taller than the church apparently. Zero chance that's going to retail.

I really don't know how to feel about the new Skorne Battle Engine. It is exactly a giant Ancestral Guardian.... and that is all.

I think I would like it more if it was stepping down from a podium or something. Something to sell its size like Talos from Jason and the Argonauts.

Is there any news on what the Chimney is for?
I wish it was held aloft in mimicry of the Statue of Liberty.

It has a ranged fire attack.

Ah, okay. I was thinking it was just decoration and could serve as a type of Lighthouse.

Today Matt Wilson announced they would be doing an L5R minicrate?

First model is going to be from dragon clan (I forget the name) in january 2019

That's quite the fancy helmet he's got on. It'd look quite nice transplanted onto a number of Skorne characters.

That's out of the blue...

I know I wouldn't be adverse to someone like Privateer doing modern sculpts of L5R stuff...

 Barzam wrote:
That's quite the fancy helmet he's got on. It'd look quite nice transplanted onto a number of Skorne characters.

I thought it was a Skorne model to start with.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
That's out of the blue...

I know I wouldn't be adverse to someone like Privateer doing modern sculpts of L5R stuff...

But FFG owns L5R now, and FFG does their own miniatures (of better quality than PP's stuff)...

...well. I knew FFG was doing something minis related, but I sure as hell didn't see that coming either. Now I'll have to dig up what does that mean for me... just great -_-

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
That's out of the blue...

I know I wouldn't be adverse to someone like Privateer doing modern sculpts of L5R stuff...

Matt Wilson was the lead artist for AEG when L5R launched and many of the early signature pieces were by him. So not completely unrelated. Still out of the blue.

Don't know if some attempt to grab so nostalgia from OG L5R fans? The L5R figures never grabbed me when AEG did their miniature game and doesn't look like these will either.

Looks like Togashi, the clan champion.

It's important to remember the PP guys are gamers. They get hooked on Hearthstone and Overwatch and whatever else. They hang out at cons and play games with the community. My guess is as much as anything else, they've just got the L5R bug going around the office during lunch breaks.

 silent25 wrote:
Looks like Togashi, the clan champion.

It is. (Togashi is the last name and shared by several characters though).

For reference, from FFG's iteration of the game:

 Sqorgar wrote:

 silent25 wrote:
Looks like Togashi, the clan champion.

It is. (Togashi is the last name and shared by several characters though).

For reference, from FFG's iteration of the game:

Actually, it is just Togashi, the founder of the Dragon Clan. He goes by Yokuni to hide his identity.

 LunarSol wrote:
It's important to remember the PP guys are gamers. They get hooked on Hearthstone and Overwatch and whatever else. They hang out at cons and play games with the community. My guess is as much as anything else, they've just got the L5R bug going around the office during lunch breaks.

It'salso interesting to note that PP's distribution in the EU sucks monkey balls, while FFG's is Asmodee. I'm sure building up a relationship will be a net benefit for all parties involved.

Eh...So they will just make L5R miniatures for the collection and painting ? Or is it for a new board game or something ?

minicrate is just for collecting. Maybe this is a way of testing the waters to see how popular the figures are before committing to a full game.

L5R drew me in here. If they got the rights to a miniature game of it Im screwed . I’ve been building up Test of Honour figs for my samurai fix, and old school L5R is some of my favorite stuff of Matt’s. I’ve never been drawn to his PP style though.

If this turns into a thing I foresee some crossover potential as the
player bases aren't necessarily all in on each other's games.

Guess what, Rokugan is on the other side of Immoren. WMH/L5R worlds merge.

And on the 3rd side is Faerun. Ultimate Conspiracy reached!

FFG does own the entire L5R IP, they also have their hands full with Star Wars minis and Rune Wars (probably winding down).

You can bet they've discussed sub licensing out the IP to someone who might be able to do a miniature game. But, the game probably won't be financially viable.

What makes it more reasonable is that L5R would be a cheap license.

 Sarouan wrote:
Eh...So they will just make L5R miniatures for the collection and painting ? Or is it for a new board game or something ?

Minicrate is basically a one time sale of a model over a month or so. PP makes the model, mould and everything and then fills the orders (which are limited per buyer) and then at the end destroys the mould.

So its a one time, only one time order never to come again.


Which means if you see something you like and you don't get it during its release window you can never get it again unless you are lucky to get one on the second hand market (which is unlikely as you can't bulk-buy them so anyone who gets one is basically going to either hold onto it or sell it for a very high second hand price).

It basically makes it a boutique collectable and due to the constraints is possibly not the best market tester measure; its more of a one-off production thing.

So, there's a Mystery box you can buy in the PP store.

https://store.privateerpress.com/games/hordes/mystery-box-blowout

It says that you can purchase up to five in the same order, without getting duplicate factions (every box is only one faction). Does that mean that it's pretty much just 5 factions they're trying to liquidate? And if so, which ones do you think they are?

I like that they guarantee at least one large based model. I wish you could choose the faction (or at least from a list), but I suppose the whole purpose of this is the clear out less popular stuff.

The 5 Hordes factions, possibly?

I got my shipping order for the 2 boxes I ordered. Should be here Wednesday. I can post what's in them.

Got them for the RPG and figured I'd try out Company of Iron. I like the setting but the core game isn't really my thing.

Meh, I like the look of PP stuff but nobody in my area plays it. Thought I'd give the mystery box a go as it seems like a good deal. The delivery price to the UK is more than the box itself!

I'll be interested to see what people get at any rate!

 Monkeysloth wrote:
I got my shipping order for the 2 boxes I ordered. Should be here Wednesday. I can post what's in them.

Got them for the RPG and figured I'd try out Company of Iron. I like the setting but the core game isn't really my thing.

Cool, im thinking of getting a box too next week when i get paid, it will be good to get an idea of whats in them

 Monkeysloth wrote:
I got my shipping order for the 2 boxes I ordered. Should be here Wednesday. I can post what's in them.

Great, thanks!

I ordered one as well, but haven't gotten a shipping notice yet. I'll do the same when it comes.

I like most of the large based models, the only ones I can think I wouldn't want would be a battle engine caster I already own. But I'm sure I'd find some use for them.

Took 4 business days for my order to ship which was inline with the 3-5 they told me about after the order.

A few people on reddit have reported their contents, going to post them here for reference sake as I want to see how consistent it is across the same faction boxes.

Cryx -- Mk3 Battlebox, the Kraken/Sepulcher, Corruptor/Reaper/Malice jack kit, 4 bone chickens(Ripjaws and Nightwreches), and Cryx tokens.

Cygnar -- Plastic Colossal kit, starter set, full unit of Stormblades, and a plastic Reliant/Stormclad.

So far looks to be new stuff. I would not be sad with either of those for $60 though I'm hoping for Mercs and Minions.

Wow, they’re a lot better than I was expecting for that price.

yep. Right now appears to be one starter, one heavy jack, one huge figure and a unit of some type.

Considering they said you can order only 5 is that just a limit PP is putting on the number or are there only 5 factions in the deal total? I'm thinking it's the first option.

Surprised at plastic Colossals. I was expecting them to be the old resins.

 AduroT wrote:
Surprised at plastic Colossals. I was expecting them to be the old resins.

I was too, though given that resin is pretty easy to make on demand, they might not hold as much stock of those as other things. Plastic stuff is ordered in bulk overseas after all.

Some more have popped up.

Another Cryx with the same contents as above.

Circle was the Stormraptor, Mist Ridere, starter and a Gorax

Skorne was the Hydra, two medium unit boxes and battle box.

Fair play, they're pretty snazzy sounding sets for the money!

So I’m hearing

Cygnar: Starter box, Stormblades, Colossal multi-kit, Stormclad/Reliant
Circle: Starter box, Mist Riders, Gorax, Storm Raptor
Cryx: Starter box, Reaper multi-kit, Nightwretch box, Ripjaw box, colossal multikit
Ret: Starter box, Gorgon, Invictors, colossal multi-kit
Skorne: Starter box, Desert Hydra, Incindiarii, Cetratii

All of them come with tokens.

My order came today. Cryx and Cygnar. Matches what we've already seen.

Over not to bad. I like the aesthetic of Cryx so no complaints there and out of what appears to be just a list of 5 only Cygnar or scorne would be next.

Really thought there would be something from all factions but it's looking like just some of them. Makes me wonder if they'll "make room" at another warehouse sometime later with a different 5 factions?

A Skorne Hydra... I am jealous.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
My order came today. Cryx and Cygnar. Matches what we've already seen.

Over not to bad. I like the aesthetic of Cryx so no complaints there and out of what appears to be just a list of 5 only Cygnar or scorne would be next.

Really thought there would be something from all factions but it's looking like just some of them. Makes me wonder if they'll "make room" at another warehouse sometime later with a different 5 factions?

All the contents were plastic. Unless PP decides to do this with non-plastic contents, the only other factions that could have been used were Khador, Menoth and Convergence.

 AduroT wrote:
So I’m hearing

Cygnar: Starter box, Stormblades, Colossal multi-kit, Stormclad/Reliant
Circle: Starter box, Mist Riders, Gorax, Storm Raptor
Cryx: Starter box, Reaper multi-kit, Nightwretch box, Ripjaw box, colossal multikit
Ret: Starter box, Gorgon, Invictors, colossal multi-kit
Skorne: Starter box, Desert Hydra, Incindiarii, Cetratii

All of them come with tokens.

I like these options. Can’t say I’d really use Ret, but all others would be great!

 Monkeysloth wrote:

Really thought there would be something from all factions but it's looking like just some of them. Makes me wonder if they'll "make room" at another warehouse sometime later with a different 5 factions?

I did too, but knowing the contents makes the purpose of the sale pretty clear. It's just selling off the extra stock from the print run they ordered for the plastic kits.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

decker_cky wrote:

All the contents were plastic. Unless PP decides to do this with non-plastic contents, the only other factions that could have been used were Khador, Menoth and Convergence.

Mercs are technically possible as well.

 LunarSol wrote:
Mercs are technically possible as well.

Right, but you can't really make a reasonable mystery box from them (ends up split between 3 distinct factions, or pure cephalyx with a rhullic battle engine).

Mercs don't have a huge plastic option?

 malfred wrote:
Mercs don't have a huge plastic option?

The Dwarf Battle Engine is sprue plastic.

A menoth showed up in someone's mysterybox so it looks like they're rotating other factions in. Also the Cygnar stuff has changed to have 3 plastic warjack kits instead of any units.

 LunarSol wrote:

 malfred wrote:
Mercs don't have a huge plastic option?

The Dwarf Battle Engine is sprue plastic.

Forgot about that. They'd have to draw from the different sub factions to pull that one off though right?

 malfred wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

 malfred wrote:
Mercs don't have a huge plastic option?

The Dwarf Battle Engine is sprue plastic.

Forgot about that. They'd have to draw from the different sub factions to pull that one off though right?

Not as long as Irregulars is a thing.

Mystery box seems to be out of stock. I wonder if they ran out? Mine's supposed to come next week, so I hope it's a good'n!

It's ran out of stock at least once before. I would suspect they set it to that once their backlog is too much and then put them back for sale after catching up and checking inventory as they have been switching things up with what shipped last week.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
I got my shipping order for the 2 boxes I ordered. Should be here Wednesday. I can post what's in them.

Got them for the RPG and figured I'd try out Company of Iron. I like the setting but the core game isn't really my thing.

Same boat as me, I love the rpg, and I love CoI (its what i always hoped WM/H would have been) but am no fan of WM/H as it plays.

minicrate update for october and the vip

Well damnit, I was hoping they would do a new Alexia but making it the 6 month VIP figure? Grrr.

Say what you like at least PP know some marketing tricks!

 Overread wrote:
Say what you like at least PP know some marketing tricks!

Indeed. They know quite well how to make me go "well, go feth yourself then" when looking at a mini I might have wanted to get.

 Albertorius wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Say what you like at least PP know some marketing tricks!

Indeed. They know quite well how to make me go "well, go feth yourself then" when looking at a mini I might have wanted to get.

As a non-PP person when is just looking at some of their models since seeing the L5R preview, I’d like to pick up that Alexia, but not have to buy a subscription to other models I’d have no use for. So yeah, buy this and you can have one good model that fits your desired aesthetic.

Yeah I dislike minicrate as a concept too - I've only really wnated one I could use which was the head-hunter and missed it. I sort of don't get why they are doing this but it seems to be working for them.

It's also the tiny window of sale on most - one month - coupled to the long sale on the collectors one being bound to having to buy into 6 months of models of which most you might not want (eg I don't want red ridinghood)

 Overread wrote:
Yeah I dislike minicrate as a concept too - I've only really wnated one I could use which was the head-hunter and missed it. I sort of don't get why they are doing this but it seems to be working for them.

It's also the tiny window of sale on most - one month - coupled to the long sale on the collectors one being bound to having to buy into 6 months of models of which most you might not want (eg I don't want red ridinghood)

Why is PP doing Minicrate?
Because it's a guaranteed monthly sale from nearly every PP fan. Which is much better right now than depending on your customers buying choices and habits.
Why wait for customers to make the choice when you can force them to just pay every month?

I'm getting tired of every product and service these days being a monthly subscription. But my guess is it provides a steady and predictable revenue source.

I subscribed for 8 months and found zero use for any of the models, except to do an occasional painted model give-away. I cancelled when I realized that for the amount I was spending every month I could get something I actually wanted.

It’s a guaranteed sale that they don’t have to keep in inventoryb

It also gives them a means of retaining artistic talent by giving them an outlet for vanity projects that don't have to adhere to the existing design templates for the game.

Uh, as a dude that doesnt play this game, but buys the occasional model that looks good to paint... this one is probably gonna cost me =/ I want more female models for my D&D and that Alexia model looks ace

I would be more interested in the minicrate of the minis were consistently good, but they're a decidedly mixed bag so far.

Agreed, though since the female Totem Hunter it's been a slow upscale in quality.

I got 3 mystery boxes coming took a good 18 days for them to process the order though.

I'm pretty tempted by the Alexia but I think the only one that really stood out to me from the past year was the piper. The October mini is nice sculpt wise but not worth $17. Would be nice if they showed concepts for a few months out to really see if it's worth getting the VIP sub.

 Theophony wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Say what you like at least PP know some marketing tricks!

Indeed. They know quite well how to make me go "well, go feth yourself then" when looking at a mini I might have wanted to get.

As a non-PP person when is just looking at some of their models since seeing the L5R preview, I’d like to pick up that Alexia, but not have to buy a subscription to other models I’d have no use for. So yeah, buy this and you can have one good model that fits your desired aesthetic.

They do make for some great chars in the RPG.

I VIPed the first two, but I’m probably out. The original plan had been to use the ones I wasn’t interested in personally as tournament prize support, but that’s turned out to not really be worth the effort.

angel of death 007 wrote:
I got 3 mystery boxes coming took a good 18 days for them to process the order though.

Yeah, I just got my shipping confirmation on the box I ordered a while ago. It was getting to the point where I was going to shoot them an email.

 ScarletRose wrote:

angel of death 007 wrote:
I got 3 mystery boxes coming took a good 18 days for them to process the order though.

Yeah, I just got my shipping confirmation on the box I ordered a while ago. It was getting to the point where I was going to shoot them an email.

Im tempted to get a box but the shipping to the UK is outrageous but from what ive seen they do send you a fair few bits!

 skullking wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
So I’m hearing

Cygnar: Starter box, Stormblades, Colossal multi-kit, Stormclad/Reliant
Circle: Starter box, Mist Riders, Gorax, Storm Raptor
Cryx: Starter box, Reaper multi-kit, Nightwretch box, Ripjaw box, colossal multikit
Ret: Starter box, Gorgon, Invictors, colossal multi-kit
Skorne: Starter box, Desert Hydra, Incindiarii, Cetratii

All of them come with tokens.

I like these options. Can’t say I’d really use Ret, but all others would be great!

Well, my box came yesterday, guess what it was...


LoL! Still nice figures, and a hell of a deal. It looks like it's available again also.

There does seem to be another "run" of them, and someone showed a Menoth box, so there might be more to it.
I suspect it'll be limited to factions with a HIPS huge base though (so Khador, Convergence, maybe mercs)

Skorne Supreme Guardian!

https://store.privateerpress.com/supreme-guardian-black-anchor-patch-preorder

As much as I love my Exalted I find that rather uninspired. I was hoping for a statue of a mythic creature or the like.

Trolls work by scaling the basic Trollbloods up or down but usually add interesting features ( or comedy elements which thematically fits trolls).

Without knowing that it is a battle engine...i don't get any secence of scale from the picture. It's just a slightly more ornate AG.

Just saw this render for Sorscha0 on Facebook, she looks great!

Baby Frostfang is adorable.

These are supposed to be from their early days, right?

How come nobody posted some of the minicrate sculpts for L5R? I'd do it but the site doesn't work at work.

Going to need me some samurai...

At which con is Sorscha0 going to be released?

 oomiestompa wrote:
At which con is Sorscha0 going to be released?

Warmachine Weekend seems probable.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
How come nobody posted some of the minicrate sculpts for L5R? I'd do it but the site doesn't work at work.

Going to need me some samurai...

https://privateerpress.com/community/privateer-insider/legend-of-the-five-rings-minicrate-subscriptions-live




VIP exclusive mini:




And the rest of the previews:









Except for Hida Tomonari's render's horribly oversized otsuchi (why, oh why, didn't they go with the scale on the drawing... ) I quite like everything else, and I'll probably get a vip subscription, sucker as I am.

EDIT: Also, kind of weird to see Uji without some kind of polearm and doing a niten stance, being Crane and all.

I was a bit surprised by the stances and weapon choices as well, but I'm in the same boat. Probably going to get the VIP.

I'm sure I'll have something to use them with.

I feel like we're going to see a lot of samurai properties popping up real soon. Much like how zombies and Cthulhu had their day in the sun on Kickstarter, I feel like sengoku- era styles are going to be seeing some increase in popularity.

Now if someone would just do some really nice plastic samurai, be they fantasy or historical in modern scale representations with weapons that aren't paper thin...

Are the samurai miniatures ever going to be widely available?

Of course not, that would make too much sense.

They're part of that silly loot crate nonsense and they're destroying the molds afterwards, because why have a nice and steady extra income source?

At the least since these are 3d renders I guess they can churn a few more casts out, especially if they're resin.

Am I the only one that they PP is doing a better job with the L5R concepts then they do with their own minicrate?

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Am I the only one that they PP is doing a better job with the L5R concepts then they do with their own minicrate?

Maybe... but then again, doing well with this might mean more work with FFG, an actual L5R game...

 Albertorius wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Am I the only one that they PP is doing a better job with the L5R concepts then they do with their own minicrate?

Maybe... but then again, doing well with this might mean more work with FFG, an actual L5R game...

I would hope they do a L5R miniature game, but they would do it on house and make it a stupid scale with tons of tokens and more cards than the CCG.

I'd prefer seeing Privateer do something L5R.

Although if FFG did do a minis game at least I could count on getting it at clearance prices shortly after it launches...

So Privateer just announced a kickstarter for a 2nd edition Level 7 Omega Protocol

http://privateerpress.com/press-releases/privateer-press-announces-kickstarter-special-edition-of-level-7-omega-protocol

pertinent info from link:

Oct 15-31 with expected shipping June of 2019

Bonus contents will include a brand-new miniature, new game cards, new room tiles, and more. Backers who already own a copy of the original OMEGA PROTOCOL will be able to acquire these bonus contents as a separate tier while backers who are first-time players will be able to acquire the second edition of the game as well as the bonus contents in a different tier.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
So Privateer just announced a kickstarter for a 2nd edition Level 7 Omega Protocol

http://privateerpress.com/press-releases/privateer-press-announces-kickstarter-special-edition-of-level-7-omega-protocol

pertinent info from link:

Oct 15-31 with expected shipping June of 2019

Bonus contents will include a brand-new miniature, new game cards, new room tiles, and more. Backers who already own a copy of the original OMEGA PROTOCOL will be able to acquire these bonus contents as a separate tier while backers who are first-time players will be able to acquire the second edition of the game as well as the bonus contents in a different tier.

That's... odd. I didn't get the impression Level 7 was all that popular and definitely not that it was OOP due to "demand."

Level 7 itself was trash, but Omega Protocol was fairly well received.

None of the Level 7 games were related gameplay-wise, the first one you play as civilian nobodies, trying to escape from an X-files type secret government testing facility before aliens kill you or some other generic nonsense.

Omega Protocol is a co-op dungeoncrawl where you play the government/military kill-team sent in to cleanse the facility of escaped experiments and alien baddies.

 Theophony wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Am I the only one that they PP is doing a better job with the L5R concepts then they do with their own minicrate?

Maybe... but then again, doing well with this might mean more work with FFG, an actual L5R game...

I would hope they do a L5R miniature game, but they would do it on house and make it a stupid scale with tons of tokens and more cards than the CCG.

LOL! Sounds like you played the original L5R miniature game! I still have the rulebooks and tons of the Dragon clan miniatures myself.

I've never seen anyone play a 'Level 7' game at a gaming store, much less heard of anyone I know first hand owning it. Not saying it's bad, I just seriously don't see or hear about it outside of PP's own feeds (or Dakka sometimes). Seems like a feasibly popular concept, seeing as people love X files and X com. And I don't know of anything else miniature game related with a similar theme.

Some of those 5 rings figures look pretty good. Not sure if I'd be in for any other than possibly the Naga, but I like her, and the other female characters.

Young Sorcha's looking good, hopefully I can pick her up.

Omega Protocol is held in pretty high regards on Board Game Geek, like Kalamadea said. Especially with dungeon crawler fans. I've heard more than a few people refer to it as their all time favorite in the genre, and there's quite a few big names in that pretty crowded genre.

Haven't played it myself, as it was always more than I wanted to pay for what was included. It's been on my radar for quite a few years now.

Not sure how I feel about the KS. I'll have to see just how updated it is.

Plus with the updated Project ELITE coming along with a handful of others... I hope they run it a bit better than Widower's Wood at least.

http://titan-forge.com/92-dragon-empire

Entire eastern army of 28mm fantasy including samurai, ashigaru, ninja, geisha warriors, monks, oni, artillery, cavalry, chariots, a half dozen characters on foot of various classes, a samurai hero on kirin, a geisha hero on giant flying koi fish, and samurai lord on one hell of a dragon.

I have some Titan Forge Dragon Army stuff. I thought the poses were a bit stiff. Still designed for rank and file. I may copy the studio style since I'm bad at coming up with my own patterns.
Liked the Oni and KomaInu which I sadly can't find now. Dragon was pretty cool. Some day if I see it reasonably priced.

The oni pulling the shrine was a cool unit too.

Still not plastic though!

I have a feeling the L5R figures are going to be a lot bigger as well. The Titan Forge stuff always seems thin and small for its size. More truescale 28mm. Privateer tends to be more 32mm.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Liked the Oni and KomaInu which I sadly can't find now.

(Did you try page 2?)

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
http://titan-forge.com/92-dragon-empire

Entire eastern army of 28mm fantasy including samurai, ashigaru, ninja, geisha warriors, monks, oni, artillery, cavalry, chariots, a half dozen characters on foot of various classes, a samurai hero on kirin, a geisha hero on giant flying koi fish, and samurai lord on one hell of a dragon.

Are they resin, restic or metal?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
http://titan-forge.com/92-dragon-empire

Entire eastern army of 28mm fantasy including samurai, ashigaru, ninja, geisha warriors, monks, oni, artillery, cavalry, chariots, a half dozen characters on foot of various classes, a samurai hero on kirin, a geisha hero on giant flying koi fish, and samurai lord on one hell of a dragon.

Are they resin, restic or metal?

Resin.

They're trading the short term ability to sell anything to everyone that signs up for a crate, not just the people that might want that particular miniature.

Only problem is, there's a lot of Warmachine stuff that's needed updating for a long time.

I can't fault them for remaking Omega Protocol, because I think PP has needed to successfully diversify it's portfolio for a long time, but most of their boardgames are kinda junk. Glad to see people liked this one.

I'd love to see Privateer continue to offer up resculpts of various warcasters and warlocks. Zerkova and Grissel turned out quite nice.

They could start with Xerxis and his hunched over squat! I want the Tyrant in all his majesty!

@Ninthmusketeer- I meant I can't find the Komainu in stores I usually buy from, besides Titan Forge directly. Also really wanted their Shuten Doji figure but I missed my chance on it sadly.

I literally have never seen anyone give a crap about Level 7 games. God I wish PP would actually use Kickstarter to improve Warmahordes.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
http://titan-forge.com/92-dragon-empire

Entire eastern army of 28mm fantasy including samurai, ashigaru, ninja, geisha warriors, monks, oni, artillery, cavalry, chariots, a half dozen characters on foot of various classes, a samurai hero on kirin, a geisha hero on giant flying koi fish, and samurai lord on one hell of a dragon.

Some of those look pretty cool, most of it looks a bit too out there or too chinese for what I'd like to see for L5R.

Personally, I like Kensei and Perry miniatures a bit more, for most stuff.

Still nice, though!

via beast of war on facebook

 Vertrucio wrote:
They're trading the short term ability to sell anything to everyone that signs up for a crate, not just the people that might want that particular miniature.

Only problem is, there's a lot of Warmachine stuff that's needed updating for a long time.

I can't fault them for remaking Omega Protocol, because I think PP has needed to successfully diversify it's portfolio for a long time, but most of their boardgames are kinda junk. Glad to see people liked this one.

Hopefully the new MonPoc does well. Y’all Do know MonPoc hit wide release last week, right?

I have seen several people with it out, up from zero before. Have to see if it sticks around.

Schmapdi wrote:
God I wish PP would actually use Kickstarter to improve Warmahordes.

Out of interest, how do you think PP could use Kickstarter to "improve WM/H"?

 AduroT wrote:

 Vertrucio wrote:
They're trading the short term ability to sell anything to everyone that signs up for a crate, not just the people that might want that particular miniature.

Only problem is, there's a lot of Warmachine stuff that's needed updating for a long time.

I can't fault them for remaking Omega Protocol, because I think PP has needed to successfully diversify it's portfolio for a long time, but most of their boardgames are kinda junk. Glad to see people liked this one.

Hopefully the new MonPoc does well. Y’all Do know MonPoc hit wide release last week, right?

I know around here there's a lot of waiting for Dec when the base 6 stuff is out. I've been playing it pretty regularly with my old models though, and I'm really liking the new edition.

Omega Protocol was definitely a solid dungeon crawler. I think most of its dismissal came from being the sequel to the much less well received original. Even then, the original L7 is a pretty solid game, but it was released in the heart of the Kickstarter board game with hundreds of minis craze with cardboard standees from a company known for its miniatures. It would be pretty cool if they packed the two games together for the second edition, given their shared setting and all. The original would need some updating but would probably go over much better.

Sunno wrote:

Schmapdi wrote:
God I wish PP would actually use Kickstarter to improve Warmahordes.

Out of interest, how do you think PP could use Kickstarter to "improve WM/H"?

Possibly by releasing more 'Extreme' units there? Or perhaps faction specific terrain? I'd be interested to hear as well.

Sunno wrote:

Schmapdi wrote:
God I wish PP would actually use Kickstarter to improve Warmahordes.

Out of interest, how do you think PP could use Kickstarter to "improve WM/H"?

Any number of ways. Can you imagine how much money they'd make (and what a huge audience they'd reach) if they just did a Kickstarter to start producing battleboxes in HIPS? Or during the KS for their (awful) video game they made - everyone got super excited for a bit when one of the stretch goals was for cross faction warcasters - until it was revealed to just be skins for the game. Or even something as simple as producing a fluff anthology book, that, back when they had forums, people used make threads asking for 3-4X a week.

I mean, I like the looks of Monpoc (and I think it's smart, and badly needed for PP to diversify) but I also feel like there's 0 excitement for WM/H right now and as good an idea as diversifying is I don't think it's smart to let your flagship product spin it's wheels while you revisit that board game series that nobody really cared about.

Schmapdi wrote:

Sunno wrote:

Schmapdi wrote:
God I wish PP would actually use Kickstarter to improve Warmahordes.

Out of interest, how do you think PP could use Kickstarter to "improve WM/H"?

Any number of ways. Can you imagine how much money they'd make (and what a huge audience they'd reach) if they just did a Kickstarter to start producing battleboxes in HIPS? Or during the KS for their (awful) video game they made - everyone got super excited for a bit when one of the stretch goals was for cross faction warcasters - until it was revealed to just be skins for the game. Or even something as simple as producing a fluff anthology book, that, back when they had forums, people used make threads asking for 3-4X a week.

I mean, I like the looks of Monpoc (and I think it's smart, and badly needed for PP to diversify) but I also feel like there's 0 excitement for WM/H right now and as good an idea as diversifying is I don't think it's smart to let your flagship product spin it's wheels while you revisit that board game series that nobody really cared about.

To be perfectly honest, I think PP are only releasing these games now because Warmahordes is a bloated carcass, and they've haemorrhaged so much they need to recoup sales in some way. Bringing back Monpoc is something people have asked for for ages, and now they're doing it to make back money. Same deal with the lootcrates, promoting blind impulse buying because they're limited runs that will never come back

As an ex player of both PP and GW, I think they're both doing the same things for different reasons. PP are bringing the games back to desperately clutch at customers because they're slipping down the ladder rapidly, while GW are using the expanded game sets to bring in customers from all different walks of life and keeping them there. It's important to note that the GW games are all different in scale and cost, so you can accommodate different player types and budgets, while PP is all expensive blisters and boxes, so you're not spending much less to play Monpoc compared to Warmahordes. That means anyone priced out of Warmahordes is priced out of Monpoc as well

Far as I recall Monster Apoc was tangled up with some movie rights for a long while and that either prevented or heavily discouraged them from returning it to the tabletop. As for their boardgames they've always had them alongside Warmachine/Hordes

Schmapdi wrote:

Sunno wrote:

Schmapdi wrote:
God I wish PP would actually use Kickstarter to improve Warmahordes.

Out of interest, how do you think PP could use Kickstarter to "improve WM/H"?

Any number of ways. Can you imagine how much money they'd make (and what a huge audience they'd reach) if they just did a Kickstarter to start producing battleboxes in HIPS? Or during the KS for their (awful) video game they made - everyone got super excited for a bit when one of the stretch goals was for cross faction warcasters - until it was revealed to just be skins for the game. Or even something as simple as producing a fluff anthology book, that, back when they had forums, people used make threads asking for 3-4X a week.

I mean, I like the looks of Monpoc (and I think it's smart, and badly needed for PP to diversify) but I also feel like there's 0 excitement for WM/H right now and as good an idea as diversifying is I don't think it's smart to let your flagship product spin it's wheels while you revisit that board game series that nobody really cared about.

I understand. I did wonder from your post whether you meant that PP should do all their CID/updates via kickstarter?? But that is clearly not what you meant

On the rest of your post, I will admit upfront to being a PP and WM/H fanboy. But id disagree that there is 0 excitement for WM/H right now. I am actually seeing huge growth in the game after the huge knock it took due to mishandling of the Mk3 launch. This probably isn’t the thread to talk about how the community is changing and the positivity within it. But after a very painful year it appears to have recovered and moved forward. The issue is that as a game we are very insular. We keep to our own forums, FB group and chats. We don’t socialise on other wargaming forums. We need to be better at that, selling our game to the wider community and being seen to be more open.

As for the plastic Battle Boxes and the material. All the ones I have had and seen (trolls and cryx for me, al the rest for my mates) have been good enough for a starter set. When painted (and I am a reasonable painter) they look decent. TBH id rather that PP looked at their overall proving than the material in their BB’s

 Overread wrote:
Far as I recall Monster Apoc was tangled up with some movie rights for a long while and that either prevented or heavily discouraged them from returning it to the tabletop. As for their boardgames they've always had them alongside Warmachine/Hordes

Far as I know that was supposition. We know there had been talk of a movie deal, but nothing ever came from it. The collectible version of the game kind of died out. They started to bring it back as a non-collectible thing then suddenly stopped and went radio silent. To my knowledge they never discussed why it stopped like it did, but there were rumors of a botched movie contract that gave away the rights to the IP. Either way, it’s back now. Read thru the rules and it’s like 95% the same as I remember it. Running some demos later today at the FLGS and rather looking forward to it.

How awkward will it be when the Level 7 KS doesn’t fund?

 AduroT wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Far as I recall Monster Apoc was tangled up with some movie rights for a long while and that either prevented or heavily discouraged them from returning it to the tabletop. As for their boardgames they've always had them alongside Warmachine/Hordes

Far as I know that was supposition. We know there had been talk of a movie deal, but nothing ever came from it. The collectible version of the game kind of died out. They started to bring it back as a non-collectible thing then suddenly stopped and went radio silent. To my knowledge they never discussed why it stopped like it did, but there were rumors of a botched movie contract that gave away the rights to the IP. Either way, it’s back now. Read thru the rules and it’s like 95% the same as I remember it. Running some demos later today at the FLGS and rather looking forward to it.

No it was optioned and then re-optioned by a different studio 2 years ago. Options don't mean a movie is going to get made, just that someone is paying you not to let someone else make a movie based of your idea. Generally it's because that production company wants to make a movie based off of your material but it can also be used to make sure there's no competition to a movie you want to make.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/monsterpocalypse-movie-warner-bros-wins-890002 (from 2016)

 Overread wrote:
Far as I recall Monster Apoc was tangled up with some movie rights for a long while and that either prevented or heavily discouraged them from returning it to the tabletop.

I was just under the impression (especially from the starter box I bought) that it was just a terrible game with incredibly poor quality minis and they rightfully just discontinued it.
Bringing it back is rather baffling.

As for their boardgames they've always had them alongside Warmachine/Hordes

'Always' is a weird word to use. In this particular case I have absolutely no idea what you mean by it, as PP started with schlock d20 RPG books in 2000, Warmachine started in 2003 and their first board game, Bodgers, didn't happen until 2013.
So 'always' in this case would have to mean '5 years ago' and 'less than a third of the lifespan of the company.'

Voss wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Far as I recall Monster Apoc was tangled up with some movie rights for a long while and that either prevented or heavily discouraged them from returning it to the tabletop.

I was just under the impression (especially from the starter box I bought) that it was just a terrible game with incredibly poor quality minis and they rightfully just discontinued it.
Bringing it back is rather baffling.

As for their boardgames they've always had them alongside Warmachine/Hordes

'Always' is a weird word to use. In this particular case I have absolutely no idea what you mean by it, as PP started with schlock d20 RPG books in 2000, Warmachine started in 2003 and their first board game, Bodgers, didn't happen until 2013.
So 'always' in this case would have to mean '5 years ago' and 'less than a third of the lifespan of the company.'

Grind (a boardgame) came out in 2009.

Also, Monsterpocalypse was actually a pretty great game (but there's no accounting for taste), with some pretty poor unit miniatures, but the monsters themselves weren't bad (but again, the taste thing).

Voss wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Far as I recall Monster Apoc was tangled up with some movie rights for a long while and that either prevented or heavily discouraged them from returning it to the tabletop.

I was just under the impression (especially from the starter box I bought) that it was just a terrible game with incredibly poor quality minis and they rightfully just discontinued it.
Bringing it back is rather baffling.

I do not know where to begin on this one...

Anyway, MonPoc died because it was a prepaint and all the prepaints died when that market ceased to be viable. They repackaged their existing stock to see if it could work without the blind purchase angle but it really didn't have much of a chance of justifying production of new models. As for why its back? I assume the renewed interest in the film rights is part of it, but likely PP settling on their resin production is a big part of it as well.

I'm really liking what I've played of the new edition so far. Almost nothing's changed, but the tweaks they've made help focus the game on the monsters and if nothing else, getting away from the mind bogglingly abysmal icon system finally makes the game approachable and teachable. I think it won't really launch until December when the first set is really available, but I'm excited to play it again. It's been a favorite I've continued to play even after the original died.

KSer up https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/privateerpress/level-7-omega-protocol-board-game-2nd-edition

About a 3rd to funding. Not backing myself but since no one has posted the link I figured I would.

$20 pledge for existing owners to get new stuff.

$90 base pledge

$125 Everytihng pledge.

New rule book, so this is a 2.0, and the minis are being made with a better PVC mix over their old bendy crap.

 LunarSol wrote:

Anyway, MonPoc died because it was a prepaint and all the prepaints died when that market ceased to be viable. They repackaged their existing stock to see if it could work without the blind purchase angle but it really didn't have much of a chance of justifying production of new models. As for why its back? I assume the renewed interest in the film rights is part of it, but likely PP settling on their resin production is a big part of it as well.

I don't think MonPoc was really healthy (the repackaging into blind buy army packs was fatally flawed and the increasing reliance on super rare and exclusives are just bad business), but I don't think it would've gone down the way it did without outside influence. I mean, they literally just stopped. They went from showing in production models for the next wave to not even admitting the game ever existed. This makes me think it was a rights issue rather than a prepaint issue.

 Sqorgar wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

Anyway, MonPoc died because it was a prepaint and all the prepaints died when that market ceased to be viable. They repackaged their existing stock to see if it could work without the blind purchase angle but it really didn't have much of a chance of justifying production of new models. As for why its back? I assume the renewed interest in the film rights is part of it, but likely PP settling on their resin production is a big part of it as well.

I don't think MonPoc was really healthy (the repackaging into blind buy army packs was fatally flawed and the increasing reliance on super rare and exclusives are just bad business), but I don't think it would've gone down the way it did without outside influence. I mean, they literally just stopped. They went from showing in production models for the next wave to not even admitting the game ever existed. This makes me think it was a rights issue rather than a prepaint issue.

That would be the dumbest movie option deal ever and if it's the case PP should have sued it's lawyer. "Hey we want to make a movie about you game but as part of the option you have to stop making the game. There's no garuntee we'll make the movie, we might, or we might just sit on it for 5 years like 90% of the stuff we option. Anyway, here's 100k stop making your game". Maybe they got bamboozled into selling the game rights to bigger players if the movie got made but that would still seam stupid unless they got a good cut of potential merch.

 Monkeysloth wrote:

That would be the dumbest movie option deal ever and if it's the case PP should have sued it's lawyer. "Hey we want to make a movie about you game but as part of the option you have to stop making the game. There's no garuntee we'll make the movie, we might, or we might just sit on it for 5 years like 90% of the stuff we option.

From what I understand, the movie was moving ahead with Tim Burton and ended up getting shelved because Pacific Rim released (and didn't do well). What seems most likely is that they were preparing movie models based on preproduction sketches, which they couldn't share due to NDA. When that fell through, all work on future waves would've been thrown away. Of course, it could just be that the line flat out failed and they couldn't say anything about it because it would affect the value of the IP. Whatever the case, it seems likely there was an NDA in place that affected communication regardless of whether the movie deal outright killed the game.

Whatever the case, MonPoc was always my favorite PP product and the way it ended was baffling. It's back now, and I guess so am I.

I like the designs for the new minis. Not enough to pledge, but I'll keep an eye out for the retail release.

 Sqorgar wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:

That would be the dumbest movie option deal ever and if it's the case PP should have sued it's lawyer. "Hey we want to make a movie about you game but as part of the option you have to stop making the game. There's no garuntee we'll make the movie, we might, or we might just sit on it for 5 years like 90% of the stuff we option.

From what I understand, the movie was moving ahead with Tim Burton and ended up getting shelved because Pacific Rim released (and didn't do well). What seems most likely is that they were preparing movie models based on preproduction sketches, which they couldn't share due to NDA. When that fell through, all work on future waves would've been thrown away. Of course, it could just be that the line flat out failed and they couldn't say anything about it because it would affect the value of the IP. Whatever the case, it seems likely there was an NDA in place that affected communication regardless of whether the movie deal outright killed the game.

Whatever the case, MonPoc was always my favorite PP product and the way it ended was baffling. It's back now, and I guess so am I.

If it got far enough along that privateer was making game figures off of the movie concept I could see how that hurt them as that would be shared designs with the production company and either PP had to dump all of that work or the licensing fees to use it would have been more then they could justify without the movie. That could have been a huge financial hit that could have killed off the line. Even without any loss of money having to decided if you want to have a game out there in this hobby that get's no updates for a year as they redesign everything.

I know a lot of people with their IP optioned for movies. Having a director attached still doesn't mean the movie will get made, it increases it chances but still might be less then a 50%-50% though it depends on the director as some don't attach unless they plan on making something others will attach and then drop things. Basically until pre-production starts (casting and such) it's still a low bet. Even getting concept art and script done doesn't mean the movie will make it past that state. Kind of sucks for PP as they got caught in movie studios "no loss to us, it's all other people's money" with this kind of thing.

 Overread wrote:
Far as I recall Monster Apoc was tangled up with some movie rights for a long while and that either prevented or heavily discouraged them from returning it to the tabletop.

I recall them saying this as well. Something about Tim Burton buying the rights, but while they were in preproduction Pacific Rim came out, and they decided to wait & or cancel the whole thing. Other's have presented that the majority of the reason it ended was due to high production costs, which is completely believable. However, as I thought about it, it seems strange that a company would buy the rights to something they saw as successful, then tell the creators to 'stop' doing it. I remember something about them saying it would be 'relaunched, with a new movie, but still, why STOP making it up to that point? You can relaunch at any time, plus, you'll still have your current audience ready to go with all the new people coming in. I'm not saying the rights weren't purchased, but, I think it was a cover up.

Similarly, I feel the relaunch was done poorly, since they blatantly want to distance themselves from all the old figures. I get that they don't want to make all the prepaints again, but to say they're 'unusable' with the current game is just silly. A new version of the game is totally acceptable, and makes sense really, after all this time, but just like AoS, the 'RIP THE BANDAID' approach, just doesn't work with this kind of stuff. Whereas, AoS basically completely rewrote the rules and changed the background of Warhammer fantasy, they still allowed you to use your old figures (albeit, they did completely rechange the basing). PP is saying your old figures are no good, and then went on to 'remake' the same characters from the original game in this new style. The smart move (in my mind) would have been to just create completely new characters for these existing factions, and allow people to use their old figures in the game. Give everything rules, but start the game over with new stuff working with the old stuff. Eventually, if the game does well, you can redo the old prepaint characters in resin, and lots of people will be rebuy the character, just cause it will look better (better yet, make a 'new' version of the old character, with slightly different rules, and allow folks to build them as either the new version, or the old one, then old players will still buy it, while new people can make the old characters also). To AoS's credit, most of the new stuff they made, was just that 'new stuff'. New characters, armies, terrain, everything! And where as the first stuff they released felt very cliched (Medieval Space Marines and more Khorne cultists), they've created some amazing new ideas that I really like. Monpoc needs to coarse correct, and allow old figures, and create new characters.

The 'size difference' is really just BS. Line of sight just isn't a thing in Monpoc, there's no penalty or benefit to how big or small you are, it's all based on distance. Here's an excerpt from the rulebook.

Blast attacks cannot be blocked by other models.
Monsters are too big to hide behind anything,
and even the smallest units can be detected by the
sophisticated systems and instincts of their enemies.

From the official FAQ

Can I use my original Monsterpocalypse figures in the new game?

Due to the difference in scale, original Monsterpocalypse figures will not work in the new game. All official Monsterpocalypse tournaments and events will require players to use the new hobby models for play.

 skullking wrote:

Similarly, I feel the relaunch was done poorly, since they blatantly want to distance themselves from all the old figures. I get that they don't want to make all the prepaints again, but to say they're 'unusable' with the current game is just silly.

Well, can you blame them? If you have a bunch of the old figures and buildings (like I do), you have hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars worth of models that you won't have to rebuy. How are they supposed to launch a game when their biggest fans don't have to spend any money on it?

I also think a big part of it is to reduce confusion for new players. If I didn't know the difference between the old and new MonPoc, I'd look at those terrible prepaints with all the confusing symbols on the base and think that represented the game. If I were in charge, I'd make an effort to distance myself from those models as well. I mean look at the picture you posted. The MonPoc 1.0 model looks like a cheap toy (which it is) compared to the MonPoc 2.0 model right next to it.

PP is saying your old figures are no good, and then went on to 'remake' the same characters from the original game in this new style.

This also makes sense to me. This isn't a new game. It's a reboot of a game that a lot of people liked, that had favorite factions and models. I'd honestly be disappointed if they didn't remake my favorite models. New stuff will come soon enough - and I'm kind of hoping that the first of the new stuff will be new monsters in the established factions, rather than hitting the second wave of factions from MonPoc 1.0.

Honestly I can see a company like PP signing a contract with a film company that did stop them producing until the film came out.

Consider that in Hollywood Terms PP is a stickleback fish - its tiny and pretty insignificant compared to the megabucks world of Hollywood. So a film company is going to likely be the bigger party in any dealings and thus gets to call more of the shots - and one might well have been that the film wanted to be the big bang event without PP having any pre-release or hinted at releases that were outside of the films marketing system.

That all sounds fine, PP's product gets put on hold for a while whilst htey develop new sculpts for the film then the film gets close to launch and they start up marketing then BAM the film launches and sales go through the roof for a few weeks/months.


Only the film never came. PP wouldn't be the first to end up stuck with rights tangled up with a film studio. Many authors and script writers have been equally caught in nasty tangles where their creations end up tangled up in legal contacts that never come to fruition but are still legally binding for long periods. Heck it might just be PP were ignorant when agreeing and found themselves in a contract that was weighted very heavily against them; or at the negociation table the potential money on the table from the film was so great that they bent over backward (esp if Mon Apoc at the time wasn't a top seller nor part of their primary income). Ergo they took a gamble and lost.

 Sqorgar wrote:
I'm kind of hoping that the first of the new stuff will be new monsters in the established factions, rather than hitting the second wave of factions from MonPoc 1.0.

Prepare for disappointment then, they've pretty much explicitly confirmed on their streams recently that they're doing 1-2 monsters each current faction, then reintroducing the others slowly. With how the factions are now under "allegiances" though it means you can really use anything together on one side, although you lose synergies doing so (sound familiar? It's exactly what's killing Warmachine, but done in a way that isn't cancerous to the game)

Sqorgar wrote:

 skullking wrote:

Similarly, I feel the relaunch was done poorly, since they blatantly want to distance themselves from all the old figures. I get that they don't want to make all the prepaints again, but to say they're 'unusable' with the current game is just silly.

Well, can you blame them? If you have a bunch of the old figures and buildings (like I do), you have hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars worth of models that you won't have to rebuy. How are they supposed to launch a game when their biggest fans don't have to spend any money on it?

I'm going to use them as an example a lot here, but GW did this exact thing with 8th ed. 40k. Completely new reboot of the game, made new rules for miniatures that are 30+ years old, and added completely new miniatures. seemed to work ok.

That aside, the major thing they need are players. Having a base of players who know and love the game, already equipped with the models to play it is HUGE! People who had space marine and CSM armies bought Pramaris and Death Guard to the point that you couldn't even get the models. The only time this has ever happened to me with PP's stuff, is with the new Man-o-war models that just came out, and the original Monpoc.

I also think a big part of it is to reduce confusion for new players. If I didn't know the difference between the old and new MonPoc, I'd look at those terrible prepaints with all the confusing symbols on the base and think that represented the game. If I were in charge, I'd make an effort to distance myself from those models as well. I mean look at the picture you posted. The MonPoc 1.0 model looks like a cheap toy (which it is) compared to the MonPoc 2.0 model right next to it.

This I could see having been an issue, the symbols on the base, and the Hyper/Mega/Quantum forms being particularly confusing (and now useless) to most new players. But again, with a rules reboot, everyone starts back at 1. If you want to understand it, you will put in the effort to get it. Especially if there are a bunch of folks who already have models to play, you won't have as big an issue finding an opponent, and you can learn the game quicker.

Of course the resin and metal miniatures look better, but then again you're paying twice as much for the figures, which you also have to assemble and paint. The original MonPoc was made to be easily accessible to people (though the billions of mini dice were a bit much), this one requires much more dedication and skill to get into. GW's intro stuff needs painting, but everything is snap fit, so you can play right away. This is basically handing a new player a bunch of forgeworld stuff and saying "Assemble everything here, then you can try the game.". I also think you're underestimating how many returning players wouldn't buy the new models. How many of us bought the new 40k, or AoS starter sets? If I started playing Monpoc with old models, and really liked it, I'd certainly upgrade to the newer ones in time, I think most people would. I had plenty of plague marines, but I bought a bunch of the new Death Guard cause THEY LOOK AMAZING! I could have used any of my old 1st/2nd/3rd ed/ Forgeworld Death Guard instead, but, I wanted to get the new ones.

Also, I think you're missing one of my points, that they blatantly state the old figures won't work due to their 'size', when in their own rules, that doesn't even effect the game at all.

PP is saying your old figures are no good, and then went on to 'remake' the same characters from the original game in this new style.

This also makes sense to me. This isn't a new game. It's a reboot of a game that a lot of people liked, that had favorite factions and models. I'd honestly be disappointed if they didn't remake my favorite models. New stuff will come soon enough - and I'm kind of hoping that the first of the new stuff will be new monsters in the established factions, rather than hitting the second wave of factions from MonPoc 1.0.

 skullking wrote:
Of course the resin and metal miniatures look better, but then again you're paying twice as much for the figures, which you also have to assemble and paint.

The resin miniatures are about $25, while the blind packs were $15 (ten years ago). But you don't get to decide what you want with a blind pack. Compare the price of getting Defender X now with what it would've cost to get Defender X then and I think you'll find that maybe the new MonPoc is actually cheaper.

The original MonPoc was made to be easily accessible to people (though the billions of mini dice were a bit much), this one requires much more dedication and skill to get into.

It wasn't though. You basically had to collect everything, even if you were only interested in one faction. For instance, I was looking at my old collection to proxy until I assembled my new models, and it turns out that I didn't have 4 tanks total among the hundred+ models I had. I never got the Cthul DMZ pack, so I only have like 5 Cthul units total. As near as I can tell, it would be a practical impossibility to field just one faction in MonPoc 1.0. And if you were a collector, waves 4 and 5 included super rares that required multiple cases to collect. So you couldn't get what you wanted and you couldn't get everything - MonPoc 1.0 required too much dedication to get the experience you wanted. Having to put the models together is simple in comparison.

This is basically handing a new player a bunch of forgeworld stuff and saying "Assemble everything here, then you can try the game.". I also think you're underestimating how many returning players wouldn't buy the new models.

The move to a hobby game has been VERY unpopular with old players, but that's kind of what PP does. Resin models are kind of their trade now. In a year or two, if MonPoc gets a decent following, then PP can release a newbie friendly starter set with easy build or one piece PVC models, but MonPoc 2.0 is not geared towards that audience (right now). PP just isn't set up to do that across a whole product line, so I can't blame them with sticking with their expertise and (initially) targeting their loyal audience.

Also, I think you're missing one of my points, that they blatantly state the old figures won't work due to their 'size', when in their own rules, that doesn't even effect the game at all.

It's bs, but they have to say something. They can't just say "the old models are crappy and will make our game look crappy, and also, you won't buy anything because you already own the next three years of releases".

But then again, PP doesn't seem to want to give us an honest answer with a lot of this stuff, so it's really all just conjecture.

Maybe they can't give an honest answer. Hollywood is dark and full of lawyers.

There’s no way to do the game as prepaints anymore. It either has to be a hobby game or nothing at all.

It would probably would have been a good game for preassembled plastic similar to what steamforged does, but PP got burned pretty hard on overseas manufacturing and seems pretty set on in house these days.

I hope the Omega Protocol 2.0 funds. I own the game and like it, so putting down $20 for the upgrades seems like a no-brainer to me.

 Sqorgar wrote:
It's bs,

Agreed.

Omega Protocol just funded. But there's 15 days to go and some of the EU-peeps are really unhappy about the cost of the shipping... So I expect some yo-yoing to happen.

I hope the total stays above 100.000 in the end as I want the extra cards and stuff for the game.

Were they going to do any stretch goal bonus stuff for Omega Protocol? Or just keep it as is?

I didn't notice anything on the page about that yet, but I only gave it a cursory glance...

Upgraded rulebook with new LOS rules, few new maps, new monster stats (same old models, variant stats), new or newly balanced gear cards. And the KSE female leader model ( variant model for the team leader).

So, basically same game, but a bit of polish added to the rulebook. Game 2.0.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This KS is just a new chance to get the OOP game, really.

EDIT: here are all of the planned new stuff.

ya, no stretch goals as privateer said they wanted to hit their delivery time. Also this won't be going back into retail channels.

Tee shipping costs they've stated will go down as they get more and more backers in europe so the listed costs are worst case as they'll be renegotiating those costs once they know what the bulk amount will roughly be.

I'm not one of the EU-peeps complaining about the shipping costs, altough I'm propably paying the same amount of money to ship as I'm paying for the upgrade.

Good thing I already own the game and the expansion though. Shipping costs for those are a bit steep.

Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but MonPoc is a PP property, so I figured it wouldn't hurt to bring it up.

So is PP gonna re-release the Elemental Champions, Empire of Apes, Ubercorp International, Tritons, Savage Swarm and the Subterranean Uprising factions for MonPoc 2.0 sometime in the near future?

Also, do they plan on releasing any new factions after that? I heard through the grapevine that PP was spit-balling ideas for a hypothetical block three consisting of demons, dragons, attack of the fifty foot woman, 1950s style robots, zombies and plants. Though feel free to take that with a grain of salt if you don't believe that.

Just got a MonPoc starter set today, so I'm excited about that.

No doubt they will at some point. Most of the game is the same, and a lot of those models now can be used with more stuff.

I have heard that due to new version of the game being more Alliance focused vs indivigual Factions that we should actually see the old second wave Factions start showing up after the second monsters from the first, rather than getting the full roster out first.

Vertrucio wrote:No doubt they will at some point. Most of the game is the same, and a lot of those models now can be used with more stuff.

Thanks. I've heard through the grapevine that some old ideas PP had for a hypothetical third wave of MonPoc 1.0 factions consisted of a demon faction, a dragon faction, an "Attack of the Fifty Foot Women" faction, a 50's "Robbie the Robot" style robot faction, a zombie faction and a plant-based faction. What other kaiju based tropes do you think they could use to create new factions? Personally, the only other ideas I could think of (or saw someone else post about as of this writing) for new kaiju factions are Angels (who would be archenemy's with the Demons, obviously), aliens from Venus, Golems and Slime monsters.

AduroT wrote:I have heard that due to new version of the game being more Alliance focused vs indivigual Factions that we should actually see the old second wave Factions start showing up after the second monsters from the first, rather than getting the full roster out first.

So what you're saying is that wave 2 of MonPoc 2.0 would consist of new faction concepts while the wave after that would reintroduce old wave 2 factions (Ape Empire, Tritons, Subterraneans, etc.) from MonPoc 1.0, right? If yes, yeah that makes sense from a business perspective. You'd want to show off what the second edition has to offer before you go back to introducing old fan favorites first, otherwise what would be the point of making a new MonPoc edition in the first place?

Honestly, if they ever made a third edition for MonPoc, I wouldn't mind if they brought back the Radicals, Collaborators, Invaders and Fiends agendas if they made them into sub-agendas within the wider Protectors and Destroyers agendas/alliances.

They may decide to do the series 2 stuff in different Agendas as well. Tritons/Swarm/Subterrans as Invaders, Elementals/Uber/Apes as Radicals or something like that.

The game has always been something of a hodgepodge in terms of faction composition, but the move towards 2 monster games makes more sense of it, IMO. I think if anything, we'll likely see more synergies between monsters and units the way we see with Terra Khan to tie in what you bring with what's in the army.

 LunarSol wrote:
They may decide to do the series 2 stuff in different Agendas as well. Tritons/Swarm/Subterrans as Invaders, Elementals/Uber/Apes as Radicals or something like that.

So with that agenda setup, Collaborators and Fiends would be out of the picture? Is this something PP has confirmed themselves or is that just speculation on your part? Which is fine, I'm just wondering where that idea came from.

 LunarSol wrote:
The game has always been something of a hodgepodge in terms of faction composition, but the move towards 2 monster games makes more sense of it, IMO. I think if anything, we'll likely see more synergies between monsters and units the way we see with Terra Khan to tie in what you bring with what's in the army.

Isn't the absolute maximum amount of monsters one can field in MonPoc three? Though I've heard two is the preferred number for the competitive scene. What new types of factions would you like to see in MonPoc?

The official rules list set ups for one, two, and three monster teams. The tournament rules recommend two.

Pic of the Scyrah Trident:

Preview for some of the stuff coming in 2019, the Infernals stuff looks really cool, right up my street:

http://privateerpress.com/community/privateer-insider/a-gaze-into-2019

Not my thing at all, but I really like them. The narrative associated with them really sounds like one of the most compelling things to happen in the setting in a while. Curious how the campaign works out.

The monpoc faction changes are surprising, but lots of exciting stuff there. Mostly just want my bugs though.

Ohh as a Tyranid and Everblight fan the new Infernals look VERY neat!

Really liking the L5R stuff. I wish they'd just do an official line that isn't a one off thing like the minicrate is.

At least I've had good luck plucking up the figures I like on the aftermarket for not a whole lot more.

Infernals sound fun. Previewed model makes me think of the Kingdom Death Watcher.

I may have to get that Metal Slug- inspired pygmy tank for Riot Quest. Hopefully it's a Khador unit!

Updated.

Aw shoot! It's a pygmy as in Troll pygmie! Even better!

I got rid of most of my Privateer stuff- except for a lot of Trolls.

If that art book is big enough, and if the price is decent I can see myself picking it up.

I wanna see the art for that infernal combat Master.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Aw shoot! It's a pygmy as in Troll pygmie! Even better!

I got rid of most of my Privateer stuff- except for a lot of Trolls.

If that art book is big enough, and if the price is decent I can see myself picking it up.

Some details from the Insider and fb groups:

All the Riot Quest models will have full Warmachine / Hordes rules.

The Artbook is a kickstarter. And the Iron Maiden is one of the rewards I think.

http://privateerpress.com/community/privateer-insider/a-gaze-into-2019

I am hopeful for the mentioned fabric MonPoc maps because I hate the folded paper ones.

If the quality of their minis has improved since those not that great Grymkin figures I picked up a couple of years ago, I'll be all over those Riot Quest ones.

 aku-chan wrote:
If the quality of their minis has improved since those not that great Grymkin figures I picked up a couple of years ago, I'll be all over those Riot Quest ones.

They've moved away from the rubbery mass plastic stuff to in house resin. It's more brittle but holds detail better.

 malfred wrote:

 aku-chan wrote:
If the quality of their minis has improved since those not that great Grymkin figures I picked up a couple of years ago, I'll be all over those Riot Quest ones.

They've moved away from the rubbery mass plastic stuff to in house resin. It's more brittle but holds detail better.

Yay! Their PVC offerings needed way too much prep-work.

I really hope this is the start of PP pulling itself together after a few bad choices hit all at once!

Pretty enthusiastic about MonPoc. Better maps, new buildings, getting to the other factions quickly - all good news.

I think Oblivion looks pretty good too. I think it has been too long since PP did one of these kinds of books, and it has been missed. It probably won't be popular with tournament-style players, but I'm thrilled that PP is finally starting to push WMH as a game about more than tournaments.

Riot Quest... I just don't get. It seems to be a small scale board game, in the spirit of Aristeia and Warhammer Underworlds, but the tone of the game seems at odds with WMH, while still being a part of WMH? I think I'm going to have to reserve judgment on that one.

 malfred wrote:

 aku-chan wrote:
If the quality of their minis has improved since those not that great Grymkin figures I picked up a couple of years ago, I'll be all over those Riot Quest ones.

They've moved away from the rubbery mass plastic stuff to in house resin. It's more brittle but holds detail better.

One thing PP's really got down is using resin for large pieces but using metal for small details. Of the resin figures I've worked with, they are by far the least brittle because of this.

I think Riot Quest is at worst following the model of GW's side games like Speed Freeks and Warhammer Underworlds. They want it to succeed on its own merits, but if it doesn't, it should still sell as WM/H players are going to want the minis anyway.

I really wish PP would stop with their exclusive or bundled models. Every timeI want to consider giving them money for the first time, I realize the model is part of some unnecessary fad-chasing bundle or random exclusive or whatever. What a mess.

 Absolutionis wrote:
I really wish PP would stop with their exclusive or bundled models. Every timeI want to consider giving them money for the first time, I realize the model is part of some unnecessary fad-chasing bundle or random exclusive or whatever. What a mess.

Which one?

Honestly, most exclusive sculpts that are packed in with something don't turn out to be as good as the retail sculpt released later. Industry wide, alt sculpts tend to be things that were rejected in the design process after all.

Most of their current exclusives are their "minicrate" madness thing. Meanwhile their convention exclusives are often limited to just conventions but there's enough of them that PP attends to get a good chance at getting them.

The real limit is if you're outside the USA and have to import. Then again its much the same if you want FW and are outside of the UK

At least the convention stuff is always available online at the same time. I've gotten a couple that way.

The minicrate stuff really sticks in my craw though. I've gotten lucky and picked up a few on the cheap, usually well after the fact.

What if someone stumbles across them a year or two after its available? Nope, they're out of luck. Seems lame. Plays into that whole FOMO thinking which I can't stand.

I just want those five rings samurai without buying into that silly subscription service.

I can understand that FOMO is what got me to subscribe for the Minicrate Alexa. Just couldn't justify it for L5R.

We won't mention those sub- 20 dollar Alexas that people have been selling on ebay then, will we?

Eh, minicrate is what it is. Neat models, limited availability, limited
need to inventory them. It's not like they're needed to play.

When I think of unwanted bundles I think of buying shadespire
gangs to get cards needed to play the game.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
We won't mention those sub- 20 dollar Alexas that people have been selling on ebay then, will we?

Ya, wasn't sure what the price would be as several of the other 6mo exclusives were in the $40 so I figured that since I liked some of the other designs I might as well go for it.

Minicrate is worse for those outside the USA as the secondhand market is infinitely smaller. That said there's really only been one I've been after and missed. Others were in the "oh that looks cool" bracket.

It's a shame, but so long as there's some cool new Everblight beasties I'll be happy eventually

An art book for KS seems like a waste. Or an attempt for more funding with very little effort or.investment involved.

I wish them the best but have no desire to buy a likely $100 art book for a LE model.
Minicrate I stuck with 6 months before deciding it was a royal waste.

March Releases
Steelhead Arcanist – Mercenary Solo (metal/resin)

PIP 41152 MSRP: $14.99

While the Steelhead Mercenary Company isn’t known for occultists, its commanders and captains know the value of battlefield magic and are willing to offer a premium wage to recruit seasoned arcanists. These individuals enjoy privileged positions in Steelhead companies and the most competent quickly earn officer commissions, receiving even greater pay. A number of Steelhead arcanists formerly served in Ord’s navy, earning combat experience and knowledge of weather magic and lethal barrage spells.

TRADE POINTS: Bringing magical weapons to the Steelheads opens up many options to the armies that include the Steelhead Arcanist. A powerful inclusion with all sorts of Mercenary options, this model will bring needed utility to many different army compositions. The Arcanist works exceptionally well with Steelhead Riflemen as well as the many artillery crews available to the Mercenaries.

Steelhead Gunner – Mercenary Solo (metal/resin)

PIP 41156 MSRP: $13.99

While most Steelhead soldiers are human, the company is quite willing to take on anyone with solid skills willing to fight for coin, and its officers have frequently fought alongside Rhulic mercenaries. A number of Rhulfolk have accepted work with company branches, negotiating for top pay—few soldiers are more disciplined or cool under fire. Gunners are artillery veterans who know how to get the most out of their crews, coordinating fire and ensuring such weapons are quickly positioned to do the most harm.

TRADE POINTS: The Steelhead Gunner is an excellent support piece for the upcoming Steelhead artillery batteries. Bringing multiple support abilities and buffs for the different artillery pieces makes this model an excellent choice to support his Steelhead compatriots.

Garryth, Eye of Vengeance – Retribution Warcaster (metal)

PIP 35090 MSRP: $16.99

Garryth has earned his place among the deadliest mage hunters in the Retribution over a century spent tireless stalking the sect’s foes across western Immoren. But during the Skorne Empire’s invasion of Ios, he was given cause to reevaluate his tactics. An attempt to neutralize Supreme Domina Makeda failed in a way that suggested he had become reckless. He has chosen to take a more measured and systematic approach, striking from a distance with Void Singer, a powerful sniper rifle made to his specifications. He is still willing to close for the kill with blade when needed but chooses his moment carefully after allowing the prey to approach, demonstrating the focus and patience of an apex predator.

TRADE POINTS: A sniper of immense power, Garryth, Eye of Vengeance brings the shadows with him to battle. Sly and sneaky, he maneuvers himself to set up the perfect killshot on his opponent before disappearing again into the mist. Garryth works very well with other ranged fighters such as Mage Hunter Strike Force, Dawnguard Invictors, or the Harpy Light Warjack.


Armodax: $26.99
Though the Terrasaurs have shown a remarkable willingness to fight alongside Earth’s other defenders, some are trickier to work with than others. Armodax is a hulking monster covered in armored plates and boasting a weighty clubbed tail that serves better than any wrecking ball at toppling buildings. He has demonstrated unrestrained delight in annihilating skyscrapers, factories, and power plants while clashing with Earth’s foes. Yet there is no question he is worth preserving, given his unstoppable ferocity. His allies have learned to ensure the complete evacuation of any zone he has entered.

TRADE POINTS: Armodax is an incredibly resilient monster that can be added to any Protectors force. His thick armored plating protects him from taking damage when colliding with buildings. In the early game, he relishes destruction, gaining extra Power Dice for every building and unit he destroys. When he goes hyper, he gains power dice whenever he or an ally is attacked, and he swings his powerful tail into enemies, sending them staggering across the map.

Yasheth: $27.99
The Lords of Cthul are enigmatic creatures of nightmare and madness, drawn from unknown nether regions to plague the world, aided by cultists who revere them like gods. Yasheth stands at a place of prominence in the blasphemous texts of these cults, an entity of negation and death, an invoker of antilife that transforms the world around it into whatever crawling horror the Cthul see as paradise. His shrieks alone have been known to rend the sanity from witnesses, and all living things quail and soon perish in his presence.

TRADE POINTS: Yasheth is a flexible monster that can be added to any Destroyers force. In his alpha form, he dodges away from enemy attacks that miss him while his powerful claws steal the life energy of any monster he slashes. When he goes hyper, he is capable of lightning-quick attacks that drain power from his opponents, and his influence makes the attacks of all of his allied units steal Power Dice from his opponent as well.

Void Gate: $19.99
Where the Lords of Cthul stride into battle, reality warps and bends before tearing asunder. Void Gates are like wounds in the very fabric of the time-space continuum, and through them come otherworldly horrors to ravage the Earth. It is a top priority of all of Earth’s defenders to eradicate these unnatural structures as rapidly as possible.

TRADE POINTS: The Void Gate building manipulates allied and enemy units and helps deploy Lords of Cthul forces. A Destroyers player who secures this building can spawn Lords of Cthul units to the battlefield cheaper. Any player who secures this building gains the ability to promote grunt units into elites and to move nearby units.

Apartment Building: $18.99
One of the underappreciated wonders of the modern world, apartment buildings are microcosms of life amid the urban landscape, each home to hundreds of hard-working people, their families, and their pets. Hopefully, in most cases, everyone will be evacuated from the premises before Planet Eaters and Terrasaurs transform them to heaps of rubble.

TRADE POINTS: This highly detailed resin model can be used to replace the paper Apartment Buildings that come in the Monsterpocalypse starter boxes.

Mount Terra: $18.99
Mount Terra is a G.U.A.R.D. codename for the inexplicable volcanic eruptions that sometimes follow the path of the Terrasaurs. These are either a reaction to their presence or are perhaps part of some deliberate plan. Whatever their origins, Terrasaurs seem reinvigorated in the presence of Mount Terra and have been known to utilize the radiant heat of these eruptions to accelerate the hatching of their eggs.

TRADE POINTS: The Mount Terra building grants your monster more mobility and helps deploy Terrasaurs forces. A Protectors player who secures this building can spawn Terrasaurs units to the battlefield cheaper, and any player who secures this building gains the ability to move their monster in new ways during a monster or unit activation.

I was hoping the apartment buildings would be a bit smaller/cheaper that they could squeeze them two per pack. Probably stick with my laser cut mdf ones that were the same price for six.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
We won't mention those sub- 20 dollar Alexas that people have been selling on ebay then, will we?

I sure haven't seen any of those and Alexia is one of the models I'm particularly interested in getting. Mind you, as Overread said, the second hand / reseller market is much smaller outside the US. In the first few months after it launched you could find plenty of people in the UK selling minicrate miniatures but these days it is rare to see more than 4 or 5 listed, total.

Yep I'm fairly sure minicrate in the EU/UK market is pretty much only collectors getting them, so there's very little to no second hand market or reselling going on.

US market is far more active it would seem, which makes sense as its a US focused brand and product line.

That Armodax is probably one of the best rescuplts they've done recently. He was on my list of monsters I'd prefer to see cut initially, but that resculpt has my interest.

I really like Garryth2. Not a fan of the first one but I’ll pick this one up.

Concept art for Scary Gary.

Digging the Infernals - saw their art somewhere without knowing what it was, assumed Legion offshoot, and was totally fine with it whatever the case

New Garryth looks a lot cooler than the previous one. I'm always down for me sci-fantasy elves with laser rifles, too.

 Barzam wrote:
New Garryth looks a lot cooler than the previous one. I'm always down for me sci-fantasy elves with laser rifles, too.

His current iteration gave him Witchmark and Mortality. I was like wtf

Will Hungerford is now the lead developer of Privateer.

https://twitter.com/wnhungerford/status/1080901048942776320

And apparently he's been hanging out on r/Warmachine and posted a new Riot Quest model:

Is it a Gatorman? A Privateer? A new model for Riot Quest AND Warmachine? If you answered: “Yes” you nailed it.‬ ‪Captain Crawtooth joins the roster of revealed Riot Quest Heroes! ‪Concept art by Andrea Uderzo‬

Spoiler:

Even though the video announcing it did nothing to give me much faith in the game I'm really starting to enjoy the concepts they're showing for it.

The game was always a fine idea. The trailer was.... not.

man, i kind of want a big coloring book of the concept art like that gator

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Will Hungerford is now the lead developer of Privateer.

As the last surviving Will he has consumed the power of the others and grown in stature.

And another one today From Matt on twitter for Riotquest



And an upcoming minicrate Asphyxious the Undamned a living version when he was a member of the Circle.

I am all about that artwork for Asphyxious. Will definitely have to grab that one. Incidentally, I believe this makes Asphyxious the forth official black person in the Iron Kingdoms.

As always I'm a fan of the art.

The Riotquest Butcher looks cool. If these end up being valid to use in Warmachine I may have to eventually try it out again.

Especially if we can play smaller scale games (or that's what Riotquest will be).

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
As always I'm a fan of the art.

The Riotquest Butcher looks cool. If these end up being valid to use in Warmachine I may have to eventually try it out again.

Especially if we can play smaller scale games (or that's what Riotquest will be).

Riotquest will be its own game, but the models made for it will have separate rules just for Warmachine.

CID Testing for the next Grymkin models is live at Privateer Press.


Neigh Slayer War Horse

Neigh Slayers are rambunctious gremlins who can't tell the difference between playtime and murder. We wanted to give the Neigh Slayers a couple more options than just "run at enemy, hit with lance, repeat," by giving them a menu of special rules to vary up their game play. Each special rule should personify some kind of different playtime activity, and aid the Neigh Slayers in different situations. Grievous Wounds for example, is sorely lacking in Grymkin in general, and this should give the army a good way to handle enemy healing. Conversely, Parry and Annoyance should help them get unstuck from combat and inhibit enemy counter-attacks. Lastly, Continuous Fire and Flame Burst should help them get slightly more favorable trades with enemy light infantry when they don't have anything heavier to hit.

Things to test: Did you get an opportunity to use each ability? If your opponent had a bunch of infantry, did you find a chance to use Play With Fire and light several models on fire? When you got stuck into a big melee scrum, did Leap Frog help you get disengaged (or alternatively, more stuck in to apply the Annoyance debuff)? Were the Grievous Wounds on Tag! enough to handle Tough enemy models and healing? Make sure to take note that the War Horse is noticeably bigger (and sturdier) than standard Neigh Slayers with 8 boxes.



Piggyback Officer

Oink oink here he comes! The Piggyback Officer adds a bunch of cool rules to Piggybacks to really amp up their defensive game play as well as giving them some disruptive game play options, and helping them stay in Shield Wall. Defensive Formation is a once-per-game ability to gain Reposition 5" and then become affected by Shield Wall, so it allows them to charge enemies and then get back into a defensive position. Additionally, the Officer gives the unit Retaliatory Strike while he is alive, which will punish your opponent for swinging at the unit. Lastly, their Bulldoze Tactics gives them a useful scenario presence, by bumpin' models around (or out of scenario zones).

Things to test: Does Defensive Formation help the unit keep up with the rest of the army by allowing them to charge enemies and then re-enter Shield Wall? Did you get to make good use of Bulldoze by disrupting your opponents formations? Did Retaliatory Strike make your opponent think twice before attacking the Piggybacks?



Malady Man

Nothing seems more Grymkin than a devilish songster who enchants you with his tunes while his murderous monkey companion bites his way through your infantry. The Malady Man (and his monkey) are a small two-mankey unit that provides some control for you and some spacing problems for your opponent. The Malady Man himself has a bevy of bewitching spells that makes life difficult for your opponent. Also, when needed, he can really turn the dial up to 11 and let the monkey loose, where it goes on a homicidal killing spree. Don't worry, when the monkey finally falls, another pops up next turn. Lastly, he can turn his melody upon his own allies to increase their movement as they rampage across the battlefield towards their enemy with Desperate Pace for Grymkin units.

Things to test: Did you like his variety of spells and did you feel like you had reasons to use them? Did you get a chance to killing spree with the monkey? Or did your opponent have to alter their spacing to accommodate the potential Pac-Man'ing (which in itself can help your game plan)? Did Countercharge impact how your opponent approaches your lines? Don't forget, the Malady Man has a Wagon!



Baron Tonguelick, Lord of Warts

A caster attachment for Grymkin! Lord Tonguelick is a dapper, arcane support attachment with some light control elements. We wanted to play up his versatility, because each of the Defiers are so unique, it is challenging to create something that is universally appealing, so we opted to give him a lot of varied tools. His arcane support is useful (free upkeeps impacts each Defier), and Parlay can help protect the more fragile or forward Warlocks. He can also himself play a little more forward, and lay down some light control elements by, uhm, "emitting" a debilitating cloud and reaching out with his exceptionally long tongue.

Things to test: Is Parlay too much? Too little? Or juuuuuust right? Do you find yourself jumping around and using the Swamp Gas cloud? Did you feel like he had the opportunity to do something different each turn (alternating between arcane support, Parlay, or utilizing his cloud) based on your needs?



Grave Ghoul

A body snatchin', grave diggin', corpse... slingin' (?) Grymkin solo, that much like Baron Tonguelick, has a variety of applications. He collects corpses from nearby models (friendly and enemy), and can spend them to give you re-rolls, or force your opponent to re-roll. Additionally, he can use his magic shovel to dig in your models, providing them with a little bit more ranged defense. Also, when push comes to shove, he can really give undead models a solid boppin' with his shovel. He is definitely intended to be a second wave model, providing support aspects to your army as they move up the table, and then going in for the kill, or hampering your opponents ability to hit with their return strike. Also, with Pathfinder and Prowl, he is excellent at stalking the terrain to set up the perfect attack or be difficult to pin down.

Things to test: Does Grave Digger help keep some of your key pieces, like Lantern Men, Holden, Twilight Sisters, etc, alive? Does it make Longfellow too unkillable? Does Knowledge of the Damned, used defensively against enemy attacks, feel too frustrating for your opponent? Did Pathfinder and Prowl help you put this fellow in difficult places for your opponent to deal with? Did you do a double-take when you realized you could use Grave Digger on the Death Knell, and then a double-double-take when you realized that actually does very little for the Death Knell except allow models to see through it?



Theme Force Additions:

Bump in the Night

*add Baron Tonguelick, Lord of Warts to the Army Composition section
*add Grave Ghoul solos to the Army Composition section

Dark Menagerie

*add Baron Tonguelick, Lord of Warts to the Army Composition section
*add Malady Man to the Army Composition section

I really love Grymkin's infantry but I hate the beasts (except the Clockatrice). I was strongly considering buying in until it became clear that Dark Menagerie was the only real way to play. Really hoping this changes that (though my wallet would prefer it didn't...)

 LunarSol wrote:
I really love Grymkin's infantry but I hate the beasts (except the Clockatrice). I was strongly considering buying in until it became clear that Dark Menagerie was the only real way to play. Really hoping this changes that (though my wallet would prefer it didn't...)

What I didn't like about the beasts was how many of them you'd have to have.

I like lists with one or two heavies, but having 3+ skin n moans...

So Privateer announced today they've hired Bob Watts as CEO.

Over the years, he has served as CEO & Founder of Sabertooth Games (LotR CMG, 40K CCG), Vice President of Wizards of the Coast (M:TG CCG, Dungeons & Dragons RPG), President & Founder of Heartbreaker Hobbies (Warzone, James Bond CCG, DoomTrooper CCG), President of Games Workshop North America (Warhammer 40K), and most recently as the President of Cerberus Entertainment, overseeing the production and sales of Privateer Press products in the EU. Privateer expects that having Bob Watts involved in the daily operations of the company while still being involved in Privateer Press EU will help promote greater consistency and quality of service to customers in the UK & EU.

From what I've seen from various conversations they've never had one before.

New infernal pick I saw on infernals facebook.

That's a Grymkin? But it actually looks neat.

 Barzam wrote:
That's a Grymkin? But it actually looks neat.

I believe it's actually an Infernal(?), a new faction for Warmahordes (though I thought they were for warmachine, despite not using warjacks or warbeasts). So your feelings on Grymkin are still valid... jk.

Model name is 'infernalist,' so presumably a human who made a deal.

Not really sold on the bloody big flanges on his helmet, but a greatsword wielding spellcaster is an interesting WA. I wonder what kind of unit he's attached to. The dregs of humanity or a pack of low-grade infernal beasties?

The helmet flanges are integral to the character.

Looks like two Godzillas who aren't on speaking terms.

 .Mikes. wrote:
Looks like two Godzillas who aren't on speaking terms.

Like every Space Marine aquila ever?

Not sure I'm sold on it. Will have to see how he looks with his unit.

http://privateerpress.com/content/privateer-press-welcomes-bob-watts-as-new-chief-executive-officer

Is this already known?

 Monkeysloth wrote:
So Privateer announced today they've hired Bob Watts as CEO.

Over the years, he has served as CEO & Founder of Sabertooth Games (LotR CMG, 40K CCG), Vice President of Wizards of the Coast (M:TG CCG, Dungeons & Dragons RPG), President & Founder of Heartbreaker Hobbies (Warzone, James Bond CCG, DoomTrooper CCG), President of Games Workshop North America (Warhammer 40K), and most recently as the President of Cerberus Entertainment, overseeing the production and sales of Privateer Press products in the EU. Privateer expects that having Bob Watts involved in the daily operations of the company while still being involved in Privateer Press EU will help promote greater consistency and quality of service to customers in the UK & EU.

From what I've seen from various conversations they've never had one before.

My understanding is the previous ceo was Steph.

 malfred wrote:

 .Mikes. wrote:
Looks like two Godzillas who aren't on speaking terms.

Like every Space Marine aquila ever?

Not sure I'm sold on it. Will have to see how he looks with his unit.

see, i just keep seeing hammerhead shark when i look at it

*Fingers crossed new CEO leads to new good things*
Hope this goes well for PP - I think its clear that they did need a change of direction/some new ideas at the top. Really hope this is a big turning point for them and that they can bring back the power of PP that they had only a few years ago!

Also their KS for their artbook is into its last few days!
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/privateerpress/the-art-of-privateer-press/description

Over the years, he has served as CEO & Founder of Sabertooth Games (LotR CMG, 40K CCG), Vice President of Wizards of the Coast (M:TG CCG, Dungeons & Dragons RPG), President & Founder of Heartbreaker Hobbies (Warzone, James Bond CCG, DoomTrooper CCG), President of Games Workshop North America (Warhammer 40K)(...)

They got Big Bob Watts, eh? Good for them.

Go on Bob, get that sweet, sweet Warzone licence for PP. Fifth (or is it sixth?) time's the charm.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

Over the years, he has served as CEO & Founder of Sabertooth Games (LotR CMG, 40K CCG), Vice President of Wizards of the Coast (M:TG CCG, Dungeons & Dragons RPG), President & Founder of Heartbreaker Hobbies (Warzone, James Bond CCG, DoomTrooper CCG), President of Games Workshop North America (Warhammer 40K)(...)

They got Big Bob Watts, eh? Good for them.

Go on Bob, get that sweet, sweet Warzone licence for PP. Fifth (or is it sixth?) time's the charm.

Please explain.

Not sure what's there to explain. Watts was involved with the first edition of Warzone as the founder of Heartbreaker, and I feel PP would make for a great home for the IP. They love their shoulder pads there, after all.

It's not going to happen, now that the well has been poisoned AGAIN, but a man can dream.

 His Master's Voice wrote:
Not sure what's there to explain. Watts was involved with the first edition of Warzone as the founder of Heartbreaker, and I feel PP would make for a great home for the IP. They love their shoulder pads there, after all.

It's not going to happen, now that the well has been poisoned AGAIN, but a man can dream.

What part is poisoning what well? I'm just not following what you think could happen here.

I think he’s saying Warzone was recently poisoned by Prodos. Nothing to do with PP.

New CEO? Hope it brings back the old magic, best of luck.

All metal blisters and then plastic sprues for the big ones please! That would bring me back in.

 LunarSol wrote:
I think he’s saying Warzone was recently poisoned by Prodos. Nothing to do with PP.

Ah. Clearly I haven't been following the news at all.

*raises hand* what's a Prodoss?

They did the Alien vs Predator kickstarter among a few other things.

Without going into pointless detail, Prodos is a company that came into existence with a reasonably successful Warzone Kickstater campaign, only to squander whatever hype and good will that brought with a series of rather, uh... unfortunate decisions.

If you haven't followed the sorry tale, don't bother and live a happier, healthier life.

I was never all that into the look/vibe of warzone, but I LOVED Chronopia!

Would love if PP was to tackle either game, but Target (Tangent?) games seemed much better with fantasy then sci-fi.

That said, I too hope this CEO can turn things around for them. Warmahordes is a good game, but I guess people feel it needs an overhaul? Monpoc was great, have yet to try the new one.
I just hope they focus on fixing whatever’s wrong (I personally think it’s fine...) with warmahordes before they start side tracking into other (board/card/video) games.

I have a mild hope that this will somehow help out the awful european distribution (at least around here) that has turned a fair few away.

Seeing Chronopia get a more modernized updated facelift would be amazing. Dial up all the gears and clockwork of the firstborn, make the Devout even more spikey and evil, push the dwarf totems even farther... Stygians... oh man. I absolutely would love to see that game come back!

This is a good move for PP. The company has been in desperate need of new leadership after the last two disappointing years.

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:
I have a mild hope that this will somehow help out the awful european distribution (at least around here) that has turned a fair few away.

Someone on fb pointed out to me that that the message mentions production facilities.

 malfred wrote:

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:
I have a mild hope that this will somehow help out the awful european distribution (at least around here) that has turned a fair few away.

Someone on fb pointed out to me that that the message mentions production facilities.

Well they already have some production for the metals in the UK, although with the brexit will that still help? No idea.
Honestly the real problem is that the regional distributor here has no credibility, it's probably much smaller than any of the big web retailers, but hey progress on the side of PP might help anyway

 skullking wrote:

That said, I too hope this CEO can turn things around for them. Warmahordes is a good game, but I guess people feel it needs an overhaul? Monpoc was great, have yet to try the new one.
I just hope they focus on fixing whatever’s wrong (I personally think it’s fine...) with warmahordes before they start side tracking into other (board/card/video) games.

I have no idea. Personally, I think both games are the best they've ever been currently. The main problem with Warmahordes honestly seems to be that everyone is convinced there's something wrong with Warmahordes. They're stuck in a lot of ways too, with problems like too many Warcasters and a community that would crucify them if they dared to remove one. (Sorscha2 is awful but she'd be a fine proxy for Sorscha1, IMO) My gut says that for all the reasons bandied about, the real issue is simply price. It's a large scale game that comes at a large scale price, but for much of its high period, its price was being obscured by online discounts. Couple that with a hardcore tourney crowd unwilling to play below 75 and you've got a pretty massive sticker shock for new players or updating armies.

 LunarSol wrote:

 skullking wrote:

That said, I too hope this CEO can turn things around for them. Warmahordes is a good game, but I guess people feel it needs an overhaul? Monpoc was great, have yet to try the new one.
I just hope they focus on fixing whatever’s wrong (I personally think it’s fine...) with warmahordes before they start side tracking into other (board/card/video) games.

I have no idea. Personally, I think both games are the best they've ever been currently. The main problem with Warmahordes honestly seems to be that everyone is convinced there's something wrong with Warmahordes. They're stuck in a lot of ways too, with problems like too many Warcasters and a community that would crucify them if they dared to remove one. (Sorscha2 is awful but she'd be a fine proxy for Sorscha1, IMO) My gut says that for all the reasons bandied about, the real issue is simply price. It's a large scale game that comes at a large scale price, but for much of its high period, its price was being obscured by online discounts. Couple that with a hardcore tourney crowd unwilling to play below 75 and you've got a pretty massive sticker shock for new players or updating armies.

The price is pretty insane, here in the UK anyway. Makes me understand how GW buyers outside the UK feel. The cryx trollkin guys with the fiery chain weapons cost £78 here, after discount. I’ve been known to spend a lot on models, and I love the models and the world and the game (although I haven’t played a lot), but I feel pretty priced out at the moment.

 LunarSol wrote:
The main problem with Warmahordes honestly seems to be that everyone is convinced there's something wrong with Warmahordes.

While I agree that some of the perceived issues with WMH are purely imaginary or even self inflicted, WMH does have quite a few actual issues that seriously need to be addressed going forward. I don't think we need another thread about WMH's flaws, so feel free to reference one of the dozens here for more information.

Will a new CEO be able to address these problems? I really hope so. I used to like Warmachine and I currently like MonPoc, and I'd hate to think that PP is beyond saving. Maybe this CEO will make PP great again. MPPGA!

Couple that with a hardcore tourney crowd unwilling to play below 75....

This is definitely one of the self inflicted ones.

My biggest and real issue issue with WMH are the local playerbase,

As usual, most players are great, fun people, but of all the systems I've played WMH has the hightest number of *&^%wads by far. I put it down to the competitive nature of the game attracting a certain type of person, but that's just my perspective.

Which is a shame, because I love the game, the minis, the rules, the fluff.

Can anything be done at the top to combat this? I don't know, but I do know I miss WMH.

 LunarSol wrote:

 skullking wrote:

That said, I too hope this CEO can turn things around for them. Warmahordes is a good game, but I guess people feel it needs an overhaul? Monpoc was great, have yet to try the new one.
I just hope they focus on fixing whatever’s wrong (I personally think it’s fine...) with warmahordes before they start side tracking into other (board/card/video) games.

I have no idea. Personally, I think both games are the best they've ever been currently. The main problem with Warmahordes honestly seems to be that everyone is convinced there's something wrong with Warmahordes. They're stuck in a lot of ways too, with problems like too many Warcasters and a community that would crucify them if they dared to remove one. (Sorscha2 is awful but she'd be a fine proxy for Sorscha1, IMO) My gut says that for all the reasons bandied about, the real issue is simply price. It's a large scale game that comes at a large scale price, but for much of its high period, its price was being obscured by online discounts. Couple that with a hardcore tourney crowd unwilling to play below 75 and you've got a pretty massive sticker shock for new players or updating armies.

I think the easiest solution would to take a play from Magic's and X-Wing's play book and make a "Standard" format. Create a Competitive Season that lasts for x number of months. In each season, the list of available Warcasters (and maybe units, jacks and solos, if necessary) are greatly curtailed. So instead of a whole gamut of Warcasters, you only have say 4 or 5. Cap the games at 50 points as well.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

 skullking wrote:

That said, I too hope this CEO can turn things around for them. Warmahordes is a good game, but I guess people feel it needs an overhaul? Monpoc was great, have yet to try the new one.
I just hope they focus on fixing whatever’s wrong (I personally think it’s fine...) with warmahordes before they start side tracking into other (board/card/video) games.

I have no idea. Personally, I think both games are the best they've ever been currently. The main problem with Warmahordes honestly seems to be that everyone is convinced there's something wrong with Warmahordes. They're stuck in a lot of ways too, with problems like too many Warcasters and a community that would crucify them if they dared to remove one. (Sorscha2 is awful but she'd be a fine proxy for Sorscha1, IMO) My gut says that for all the reasons bandied about, the real issue is simply price. It's a large scale game that comes at a large scale price, but for much of its high period, its price was being obscured by online discounts. Couple that with a hardcore tourney crowd unwilling to play below 75 and you've got a pretty massive sticker shock for new players or updating armies.

The price is pretty insane, here in the UK anyway. Makes me understand how GW buyers outside the UK feel. The cryx trollkin guys with the fiery chain weapons cost £78 here, after discount. I’ve been known to spend a lot on models, and I love the models and the world and the game (although I haven’t played a lot), but I feel pretty priced out at the moment.

Wow, £78 after discounts is 101 USD. That's really expensive, considering the unit costs 90 USD.

Oh, it’s just a really expensive set everywhere then.

 .Mikes. wrote:
My biggest and real issue issue with WMH are the local playerbase,

As usual, most players are great, fun people, but of all the systems I've played WMH has the hightest number of *&^%wads by far. I put it down to the competitive nature of the game attracting a certain type of person, but that's just my perspective.

Which is a shame, because I love the game, the minis, the rules, the fluff.

Can anything be done at the top to combat this? I don't know, but I do know I miss WMH.

This was my experience, too. Between combos, dumb pricing for PVC, and hypercompetitive and/or just plain jerky player issues, I eventually just got worn down by the game. I miss it, but there were a lot of obstacles to having fun at times...

I think there's a few things they could consider/do

1) Get their PG system back in place in some form. They need some means to get at least one person per club to have a vested interest in promoting their game. Otherwise the yare relying on 3rd party stores to do that work for them and honestly Wargames just don't make enough money to make it worth it for them. They'd far rather focus on Magic and Yugio. Even GW games don't get pushed as heavily in 3rd party stores.

2) They need to get back to their roots. The Theme system has become unfriendly to new games and has honestly taken the heart out of building armies. Both for the competitive and the casual gamer I think.

3) They need to restore their forums to their old glory and at least get back on track with online marketing in a big way - they need to take a leaf from GW on this (though not quite the same scale - PP isn't the same size as GW so trying to copy perfectly would be way too much investment than is healthy).

4) A MKIV I think needs to come out and they need to use that to clean house; tidy up the rules and make the game more accessible to gamers.

I think they've burned a lot of their casual and newbie market and relied too strongly and let their competitive market lead them a little too much. Whilst its led to a tighter rules system I think they've lost their fun appeal for the casual and new gamer. That's a bad approach because it means they are essentially shutting down new player recruitment and that means an ever dwindling customer base.

I was hoping for Tom Kirby myself.

 Red_Five wrote:

I think the easiest solution would to take a play from Magic's and X-Wing's play book and make a "Standard" format. Create a Competitive Season that lasts for x number of months. In each season, the list of available Warcasters (and maybe units, jacks and solos, if necessary) are greatly curtailed. So instead of a whole gamut of Warcasters, you only have say 4 or 5. Cap the games at 50 points as well. .

They’ve sort of done this but like most attempts to make the game accessible it’s been rejected by the hardcore tourney crowd.

 Overread wrote:


4) A MKIV I think needs to come out and they need to use that to clean house; tidy up the rules and make the game more accessible to gamers.

That was the aim of MkIII, wasn't it?

 LunarSol wrote:

 Red_Five wrote:

I think the easiest solution would to take a play from Magic's and X-Wing's play book and make a "Standard" format. Create a Competitive Season that lasts for x number of months. In each season, the list of available Warcasters (and maybe units, jacks and solos, if necessary) are greatly curtailed. So instead of a whole gamut of Warcasters, you only have say 4 or 5. Cap the games at 50 points as well. .

They’ve sort of done this but like most attempts to make the game accessible it’s been rejected by the hardcore tourney crowd.

Yeah, they have a rotating format called Champions where you’re only allowed three different Warcasters and two Theme Forces. I doubt they work towards lowering the point size though, as they’ve actually worked to Raise it. Bigger games mean more models after all.

 Overread wrote:

2) They need to get back to their roots. The Theme system has become unfriendly to new games and has honestly taken the heart out of building armies. Both for the competitive and the casual gamer I think.

I disagree. I think the theme system is necessary, given how large and diverse each of the armies are. They need to be broken down into smaller groups, and I'm thrilled that most factions have jack-heavy themes for those that want that kind of thing (I did, and during Mk2, there were only one or two warcasters who could run jack heavy). It allows for different playstyles within the factions and has given PP a direction to go with future models (I thought the Man-O-War and Tharn themes had some of their best models).

It also makes it easier for new players, since it gives direction on how to build their armies. Instead of having 77 different units they could potentially use (all but 7 of them, used in a specific organization, creating a losing army), the theme tells them which subset of models to focus on. Generally speaking, the themes also play towards a specific playstyle, allowing players to pick their playstyle, pick a matching theme, and generally have a better clue at building armies towards that goal.

What doesn't work is the free models for taking a theme. It makes the tournament minded people REE, as they consider an extra model to be an overpowered reward (and it kind of is). They should rethink the theme system, but not abandon it.

 AduroT wrote:
Love the concept for Master Baldwin and Mister Clogg.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 insaniak wrote:
"Railless'...? We'll just see about that...

I love the rocketmen and the little robot guy. Is this a new faction, or a Khador off-shoot? The 'jacks look very Khador.

It’s another new limited release faction like the Grymkin. A one and done kind of deal.

They are coming out with new pre-order models for the Grymkin. Is it certain they are limited at this point?

Bring back Prime and make the battlebox (or battlegroup) plus a unit of this and 1-2 solos the standard play level.

This game system is circling the drain... The secondary market always will give you clues to the health of a system. When players can't unload figs for 75% off and stores have racks at 50% off with no movement..... Man the lifeboats boys

 Shrapnelsmile wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
Love the concept for Master Baldwin and Mister Clogg.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 insaniak wrote:
"Railless'...? We'll just see about that...

I love the rocketmen and the little robot guy. Is this a new faction, or a Khador off-shoot? The 'jacks look very Khador.

It’s another new limited release faction like the Grymkin. A one and done kind of deal.

They are coming out with new pre-order models for the Grymkin. Is it certain they are limited at this point?

Yeah, they release stuff from time to time. But it's not like the Grymkin are getting a new warlock this time around or anything.

 privateer4hire wrote:
Bring back Prime and make the battlebox (or battlegroup) plus a unit of this and 1-2 solos the standard play level.

That’s the standard I like to play the game. Unfortunately, no one will play games at that level anymore.

Sqorgar wrote:

 Overread wrote:

2) They need to get back to their roots. The Theme system has become unfriendly to new games and has honestly taken the heart out of building armies. Both for the competitive and the casual gamer I think.

I disagree. I think the theme system is necessary, given how large and diverse each of the armies are. They need to be broken down into smaller groups, and I'm thrilled that most factions have jack-heavy themes for those that want that kind of thing (I did, and during Mk2, there were only one or two warcasters who could run jack heavy). It allows for different playstyles within the factions and has given PP a direction to go with future models (I thought the Man-O-War and Tharn themes had some of their best models).

It also makes it easier for new players, since it gives direction on how to build their armies. Instead of having 77 different units they could potentially use (all but 7 of them, used in a specific organization, creating a losing army), the theme tells them which subset of models to focus on. Generally speaking, the themes also play towards a specific playstyle, allowing players to pick their playstyle, pick a matching theme, and generally have a better clue at building armies towards that goal.

What doesn't work is the free models for taking a theme. It makes the tournament minded people REE, as they consider an extra model to be an overpowered reward (and it kind of is). They should rethink the theme system, but not abandon it.

Yeah, I love the theme lists. And though I like that anyone can use any theme now, it does make more sense that certain casters would only have certain themes (ie Sorcha 3 with ManOwars, and Kromac with Tharn, etc...). Now it's more, "which caster has the most warbeast points, so I can use 3 Gargantuan in a 75pt list?", and "how many free units/solos can I add by adhering to the theme?"

privateer4hire wrote:Bring back Prime and make the battlebox (or battlegroup) plus a unit of this and 1-2 solos the standard play level.

Though I have fond memories of those days, the game is a bit too big and mutated for that now. Despite units like the ManOwars having always existed, they balanced out since Khador had no light jacks. Now everyone has a multi-wound unit of some sort. You have a lot of differentiation with solos as well. Then you have to add in Unit attachments, jack Marshalls, Battle Engines, Colossals (which I realize are part of a battle group, but, THEY HUGE!), and of course, Hordes... All of which I think have significantly improved the game from where it started, but, maybe they need to rebalance it again?

LunarSol wrote:

 skullking wrote:

That said, I too hope this CEO can turn things around for them. Warmahordes is a good game, but I guess people feel it needs an overhaul? Monpoc was great, have yet to try the new one.
I just hope they focus on fixing whatever’s wrong (I personally think it’s fine...) with warmahordes before they start side tracking into other (board/card/video) games.

I have no idea. Personally, I think both games are the best they've ever been currently. The main problem with Warmahordes honestly seems to be that everyone is convinced there's something wrong with Warmahordes. They're stuck in a lot of ways too, with problems like too many Warcasters and a community that would crucify them if they dared to remove one. (Sorscha2 is awful but she'd be a fine proxy for Sorscha1, IMO) My gut says that for all the reasons bandied about, the real issue is simply price. It's a large scale game that comes at a large scale price, but for much of its high period, its price was being obscured by online discounts. Couple that with a hardcore tourney crowd unwilling to play below 75 and you've got a pretty massive sticker shock for new players or updating armies.

Yeah, I'm not sure if the majority of people would prefer them to make new iterations of the characters they have, or create new casters to fill the roles they need. I personally would enjoy if every caster was a different person, but I think PP likes to tie the new versions of classic casters to what's happening in the fluff. I've never cared for the fluff, but it's easily avoided, and since others like it, I'm fine with it taking such a key role. I think it's fun that they want to create journeymen of some of the original warcasters, but I don't like the idea that I can't use them with their actual 'grown up' versions. Obviously, no one you'd be playing with would likely care, but stupid war room probably won't let you make a list with both.

highlord tamburlaine wrote:Seeing Chronopia get a more modernized updated facelift would be amazing. Dial up all the gears and clockwork of the firstborn, make the Devout even more spikey and evil, push the dwarf totems even farther... Stygians... oh man. I absolutely would love to see that game come back!

YES!! Though I've always felt the devout were a rather sad rip off of GW Chaos, I think they could be tweeked into something interesting. The Firstborn are definitely what GW based the Sigmarines on, they're just too similar. And the Dwarves of the Ringhold, with their Blood Totems were AMAZING!!! They were basically like a 'Hordes' warlock, with the different clan animals, and I loved how they looked somewhere between Normal GW dwarfs, and Chaos Dwarfs. I don't remember a lot about the stygians, but as I recall, they were lizard men with more of an Ancient Egyptian Theme, vs Aztec like GW? The real stand-outs for me were the Black bloods, Extremely Noble and well groomed Orcs, Ogres, Goblins, and Trolls. I believe they had sort of an ancient Persian, or some sort of middle eastern vibe? They were very cool.

Unfortunately, the majority of the miniatures weren't very good, and I think that ended up being what hurt sales in the long run. I'm glad I bought all the ones I liked before they got too expensive.

 Sqorgar wrote:

 Overread wrote:

2) They need to get back to their roots. The Theme system has become unfriendly to new games and has honestly taken the heart out of building armies. Both for the competitive and the casual gamer I think.

I disagree. I think the theme system is necessary, given how large and diverse each of the armies are. They need to be broken down into smaller groups, and I'm thrilled that most factions have jack-heavy themes for those that want that kind of thing (I did, and during Mk2, there were only one or two warcasters who could run jack heavy). It allows for different playstyles within the factions and has given PP a direction to go with future models (I thought the Man-O-War and Tharn themes had some of their best models).

It also makes it easier for new players, since it gives direction on how to build their armies. Instead of having 77 different units they could potentially use (all but 7 of them, used in a specific organization, creating a losing army), the theme tells them which subset of models to focus on. Generally speaking, the themes also play towards a specific playstyle, allowing players to pick their playstyle, pick a matching theme, and generally have a better clue at building armies towards that goal.

What doesn't work is the free models for taking a theme. It makes the tournament minded people REE, as they consider an extra model to be an overpowered reward (and it kind of is). They should rethink the theme system, but not abandon it.

The problem with Theme Forces is the free models, not because free models is OP, but because it messes with Solo balance. The cost of a Solo is almost irrelevant because you’re getting them for free most of the time.

 AduroT wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

 Red_Five wrote:

I think the easiest solution would to take a play from Magic's and X-Wing's play book and make a "Standard" format. Create a Competitive Season that lasts for x number of months. In each season, the list of available Warcasters (and maybe units, jacks and solos, if necessary) are greatly curtailed. So instead of a whole gamut of Warcasters, you only have say 4 or 5. Cap the games at 50 points as well. .

They’ve sort of done this but like most attempts to make the game accessible it’s been rejected by the hardcore tourney crowd.

Yeah, they have a rotating format called Champions where you’re only allowed three different Warcasters and two Theme Forces. I doubt they work towards lowering the point size though, as they’ve actually worked to Raise it. Bigger games mean more models after all.

PP has a lot of power to dictate what it wants from the community. They just need to incentivize the 50 point game, limited Warcaster format. FFG is doing this by making half the competitive tournaments and Worlds Hypserspace format (the limited format). Magic does this by pushing Standard and Draft at most Pro Tours and MagicFests. What PP really needs to find out is what will motivate competitive players to turn out in large number to an event that is designed to be more welcoming to newer players.

 LunarSol wrote:

 skullking wrote:

That said, I too hope this CEO can turn things around for them. Warmahordes is a good game, but I guess people feel it needs an overhaul? Monpoc was great, have yet to try the new one.
I just hope they focus on fixing whatever’s wrong (I personally think it’s fine...) with warmahordes before they start side tracking into other (board/card/video) games.

I have no idea. Personally, I think both games are the best they've ever been currently. The main problem with Warmahordes honestly seems to be that everyone is convinced there's something wrong with Warmahordes. They're stuck in a lot of ways too, with problems like too many Warcasters and a community that would crucify them if they dared to remove one. (Sorscha2 is awful but she'd be a fine proxy for Sorscha1, IMO) My gut says that for all the reasons bandied about, the real issue is simply price. It's a large scale game that comes at a large scale price, but for much of its high period, its price was being obscured by online discounts. Couple that with a hardcore tourney crowd unwilling to play below 75 and you've got a pretty massive sticker shock for new players or updating armies.

I feel like the game is fine - they just need to fix the poor quality of their minis and actually, actively work on trimming the line a bit and redoing super old minis. If they're going to stick with resin, fine. But 75% of the range is either super old metal or god-awful PVC (and overpriced for what it is). Also they need to fix whatever the problem is that is making their paint so damn hard to find. Also figure out some way to deliver their fluff going forward. The only PP stuff I bought last year was the NQ Prime (and was enjoying it) then it abruptly stopped.

Am glad to see the artbook KS (even though I have no interest) I hope it's successful enough they finally do a lore compendium too eventually.

Iirc their paint is hard to find because they’re switching factories or whatever where it’s made, so simply haven’t had any made in several months now. Irregardless, our FLGS stopped carrying it and replaced it with a big rack of Army Painter.

 AduroT wrote:
Iirc their paint is hard to find because they’re switching factories or whatever where it’s made, so simply haven’t had any made in several months now. Irregardless, our FLGS stopped carrying it and replaced it with a big rack of Army Painter.

Both of my local stores are swapping AP in, which while AP is great and has the best damn washes, makes me sad because I purposefully have been switching my paints from decades of Citadel to P3 ... which is now mostly a special order affair, and hence no longer as cost effective as it was Still good stuff IMO, and wider used than I suspected.

As for themes, one of the things I really loved about MK2 was that theme lists rewarded weird af skew lists and us outliers who wanted to take less-obvious units, thereby also increasing the variety of the meta. Themes in MK3 just feel like a GeeDub-esque way to make you buy more models, since you are straight up playing with less points if you don't go theme and get your freebies. Messing with lists, even I soon got over even considering playing out of theme

As for WMH, I do miss the game. I think there are some local newbies trying to play this new game they picked up, and some vets who could be rallied. My brother in law picked up preposterous amounts of Khador about a year ago, seems like reason enough to finally build my mountain of Cryx, spray it black and throw 2-4 dice around.

I also hear the call of Infernals to make something happen this summer ...

I don't know about Bob Watts, most of the previous companies he ran no longer exist. But Privateer Press needs something new to pull them from the fire.. Maybe Bob is it.

I agree they need to bring back the forums and Press Gangers in some form. Maybe having someone to police the curb stomper players to play nice will help bring back new players.

But just this week Miniature Market had a sale on their web site that advertised PP stuff for up to 90% off. As someone mentioned on a lot of 2nd hand selling websites that many people are
taking large cuts to try to sale it and it still not moving.

P3's definitely my favorite paint line. Really good pigment coverage and for the most part it doesn't seem to separate or dry out as quickly as Citadel. Bright colors are where I like it best. Red, Orange, Yellow in particular. I've gotten to where I use Citadel for heavy use colors just because its easier to get locally when I run out, but there's a whole set of colors I find pretty irreplaceable.

I'm personally a big fan of themes. They inject a lot of faction identity and playstyle without locking a faction into a gimmick. They also make the game generally look a lot better than it did in MK2. I've been a lot happier with a couple factions in MK3 than I was with a half dozen in MK2, but that did require trimming some of my excessive factions down to a favorite theme.


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 Genoside07 wrote:

But just this week Miniature Market had a sale on their web site that advertised PP stuff for up to 90% off.

Bit of a gimmick. There were definitely some legitimately good deals in the sale, but most of them are in the 25-30%. Basically what they used to offer before the MRPP. You can get a lot of stuff for less from DGI. The 90% stuff was like.... old issues of NQ and MK2 books and token sets.

P3 is also nice for airbrushing, really creamy result with the proper medium in there.

Just checked out the MM sale, some decent 35-50% off stuff, but I own just about everything I could want, especially for Skorne. Also if y'all don't know, Chaosorc has had a bunch of WMH on 40% off for half a year or more now. I've somehow avoided buying all four desert hydras at $66 or whatever a pop.

EDIT: But I have wanted to do a terribad Madhammer basher spam list for a long time now .........

It's probably not bad at all. People grossly underestimate the importance of actually owning the models when it comes to model viability.

 Genoside07 wrote:
I don't know about Bob Watts, most of the previous companies he ran no longer exist. But Privateer Press needs something new to pull them from the fire.. Maybe Bob is it.

Well sabertooth was a GW subsidiary and they shut that one down when they decided to licenses out things like CCGs and RPG so really only Heartbreaker closed down. Even including sabertooth in as not existing GW, WoTC and Cerberus are still around so most is a very inaccurate statement as 3/5 are still in existence and really one of the two was folded into the parent company.

I will bring in the perspective of a game store owner. There has been a lot of comment about the value of game stores to promote game lines. I don't want to get into that debate. But if you accept that it is vital to have your miniatures games being played in game store (and GW's whole model is built around that idea), then Privateer Press is in real trouble. There are two groups of problems that they must solve. The first is how to help brick and mortar stores sell their product and two, how to make the game appeal to new gamers. I used to be able to sell books and cards as well as miniatures for WMH. Now I can only sell miniatures as their move to electronic media has disposed for the need for books and cards. Since I don't sell I-phones or Apps, they effectively cut my revenue stream. Another effect of moving their cards online is that the community views and decides the value of a model before it is released. I have to make commitments to my distributors to buy those miniatures long before they are rated by the community. Often, when a model is finally released, the community has decided it has no value, and I end up with several skues I cannot sell. Also, for the audience they wish to target (13 year olds to grow the hobby) you cannot assume that they all have access to I-phones and computers. PP needs to put the stat cards back into the miniatures packs. Other fixes include going back to making books. Creating a magazine with value (new rules and units) to hype their game. That would help me to sell their product, books, cards, a magazine.


On the game side, it is too competitive. Timed turns with chess clocks intimidate new players. Another feature of the game that I have noticed is micro-management. Micro management of your movement AND your opponent's movement. Due to the fact that you can premeasure so many things and you have non-variable movement rates, combined with the fact that a caster kill is what is most desirable, turns evolve into negotiations and sometimes fights as players jockey their pieces into position. I don't want my opponent constantly micro-managing my movement for me. That is just not fun. I think this could be solved by making run and charge rates random, move +d6 for instance. Since there is no way to be sure exactly how far a piece will move, there is no reason to spend time trying to make sure your model is a micro-millimeter out of range. Another problem is the way armies are built. Most wargames assume that for every G.I. Joe in your army, you will also have a Forest Gump. In WMH players can make their army with only the best. That makes many skues irrelevant and unsellable. They need a better army organization.


It's really sad because in many ways WMH is a better game system than Age of Sigmar, but I have vastly more people playing AOS and my investments have to go towards the things that are selling. Monpoc can buoy up PP for only so long. PP is my Deadpool pick for this time next year.

Going w/ what Smellingsalts is saying about the state of the game, It's very strange seeing this this way and it needs to change, hopefully this new CEO can make that happen.

When I worked at an FLGS through MKI and a few years of MKII ('03 to '09), WMH wold like hot-cakes even though 40K was still going strong w/ 5th edition. We had a solid playerbase with regular leagues of 20+ players and a lot of it was due to how easy and inexpensive the game was to get into at the time. A 40K army was easily $400+, but a tournament sized 35 point WMH army would be $100~$130. And then they were hooked, they'd buy a solo if all they had was $10 to spend, and it was something meaningful that added to or changed his army playstyle. If he had $20 to spend, he could buy a warjack or small unit. If he had $50 a full unit plus UA. At every pricepoint you had an option to buy something that added to or modified how you played your existing stuff. Even with getting face-stomped in early games, new players flocked to it because was an easy intro with an easy way to expand. People would wind up spending just as much as 40K or more without even realizing it

Fast forward to now, and you have what Smellingsalts is talking about, and it's on-point. The game needs either a radical reversal or a radical departure from what it's become, whether that is goign against the hardcore players and going full-on limited format or splitting the game into a smaller skirmish size like it started and a separate mass-battles game like it has morphed into