Boss Salvage wrote:1) My experience with MonPoc 1.0 was that you really wanted buildings (see above), and lots of them, but that they were especially coveted, so either prohibitively expensive on the secondary market or just not available. I say this as a person who tried to play the game - which has SO much appeal to me - but felt like I couldn't largely due to minis not really being available. And yes, I hate blind boxes and the resale market they create. Is this the case with MP2? Both the reliance on buildings and their unavailability?
There are no blind buys in MocPoc 2.0 (yay) and building abilities no longer give bonuses for having multiple. A building ability might look like:
"Speed Boost: If you are securing one or more buildings with the Speed Boost abilities, allied units gain +1 to movement".
It might be a valid strategy to have more than one building of certain kinds (in case a monster is thrown into it), but the tactical advantage is more as a backup building rather than stacking bonuses. Also, some buildings have benefits to destroying them. The apartment building (I think) will heal a monster one point if the monster is non-mechanical and destroys it with a brawl attack. Having a few of those around could make a difference.
2) Is there any use for all my MP1 minis? I bought a huge amount of late wave dudes (all the burrowers, some of the other alien types) and loads of buildings (see above) when the game collapsed - is there support, official or otherwise, for using them in the new game?
MonPoc 1.0 units are not supported by PP and won't be recognized in any official tournaments, but you can use them as proxies in friendly games. They have the same footprint and thus far, all MonPoc 2.0 unit and monster releases are the same types MonPoc 1.0. The buildings look pretty different though (new stuff is way nicer). You don't use the icons on the base anymore, you need a stat card for each units, building, and monster (I'm sure you can find them online somewhere) so they make fine proxies.
To my knowledge, the majority of MonPoc 1.0 maps will still work with the game as is (some of the later MonPoc 1.0 maps added new symbols that don't have rules in 2.0). So keep those around even if you upgrade everything else.
skullking wrote:In Monpoc 1.0, you could only have 3 of any unit, and if they had an elite version, you could take 6 (3 of each), but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. So why would you not take all elite units?
Units are sold in set packs of 5, usually with just one elite, so going all elite would require buying a lot of models you don't use. Technically, the only thing separating an elite from a grunt is the star on the base and that's nothing a sharpie couldn't fix. So, I guess you could.
However, elite models are more expensive to put out and generally aren't that much better than grunt models. So far, the only benefit they've had is adding a boost die to same type grunts within a few spaces. No grunts, no boost. Honestly, the default packaging of 3 grunts per 1 elite is a pretty good mix.
I think I'm going to probably use old Monpoc 1.0 units as 'regular' versions, with painted new versions as elites. it'll make it much easier to distinguish what's what.
I just give the elites more elaborate paint jobs, like a yellow stripe or gold instead of silver paint.
If you want to keep your bases clear and use the stars to designate elites and want more than the single elite in a pack of minis, the new packs of bases come with four grunt and four elite bases for $12.
Ah. That infernal is about what I expected/feared. Weird 'shapeless' horror that reminds me of tyranids (much like the Legion beasts)
Infernal beasts have looked like that from their original conception. This is nothing new- they've always had a Lovecraftian "formless horror" look to them. That particular one is in that collection of images below
Cheers for the MonPoc 2 commentary, I'll see what I can dig up. Found the free rules, need to find the stat cards next, though most of my dudes are from late in MP1 so dunno if they're supported yet.
The facebook group has scans of all of the cards, but you can find all the stats in this online builder (mouseover special rule names to get the actual rules):
Thanks everyone, my wallet hates you all . I picked up the GUARD starter set and Terra Khan, both to have fun painting at least. The starter set was missing all 4 tanks , but had the repair truck at least. I can’t say much about the quality of the models though as all had bad mold slippage and the spots for gates were poorly chosen causing loss of details or bad fits. There was also a bubble in the arm of defender X, but not terribly bad that it cannot be fixed.
I have sent a misplace request to PP, anyone know how long it takes to get replacements? At least I can get the big guys done up while I wait.
Theophony wrote: Thanks everyone, my wallet hates you all . I picked up the GUARD starter set and Terra Khan, both to have fun painting at least. The starter set was missing all 4 tanks , but had the repair truck at least. I can’t say much about the quality of the models though as all had bad mold slippage and the spots for gates were poorly chosen causing loss of details or bad fits. There was also a bubble in the arm of defender X, but not terribly bad that it cannot be fixed.
I have sent a misplace request to PP, anyone know how long it takes to get replacements? At least I can get the big guys done up while I wait.
PP is generally super good with their support tickets. They're generally very quick about it.
Theophony wrote: I have sent a misplace request to PP, anyone know how long it takes to get replacements? At least I can get the big guys done up while I wait.
Had a mispack with some Terrasaur units (had 5 left arms, 3 right arms) and it took maybe a week to a week and a half from when I submitted my ticket.
Have not had any problems with bubbles, but the models definitely have some weird places for the little tabs you have to cut off and I never really got Cthugrosh to fit properly in his tentacles. My biggest complaint is the transparent bases. I never realized how much I relied on bases for painting. Still not sure the best way to do it. I guess I could mount them on something else temporarily, but I've mostly been painting them top half then bottom half, holding them on the half I'm not painting.
FWIW, I put in a ticket Saturday night and just got tracking information for the replacement part a bit ago. Not sure I'll get it still this week, but I'd wager I'll have it early next.
Theophony wrote: I have sent a misplace request to PP, anyone know how long it takes to get replacements? At least I can get the big guys done up while I wait.
Had a mispack with some Terrasaur units (had 5 left arms, 3 right arms) and it took maybe a week to a week and a half from when I submitted my ticket.
Have not had any problems with bubbles, but the models definitely have some weird places for the little tabs you have to cut off and I never really got Cthugrosh to fit properly in his tentacles. My biggest complaint is the transparent bases. I never realized how much I relied on bases for painting. Still not sure the best way to do it. I guess I could mount them on something else temporarily, but I've mostly been painting them top half then bottom half, holding them on the half I'm not painting.
LunarSol wrote:FWIW, I put in a ticket Saturday night and just got tracking information for the replacement part a bit ago. Not sure I'll get it still this week, but I'd wager I'll have it early next.
I got a response and a tracking number already. Nice it arrives I’ll post just to let others know the speed they fix mistakes with. Thanks guys.
Theophony wrote: Thanks everyone, my wallet hates you all . I picked up the GUARD starter set and Terra Khan, both to have fun painting at least. The starter set was missing all 4 tanks , but had the repair truck at least. I can’t say much about the quality of the models though as all had bad mold slippage and the spots for gates were poorly chosen causing loss of details or bad fits. There was also a bubble in the arm of defender X, but not terribly bad that it cannot be fixed.
I have sent a misplace request to PP, anyone know how long it takes to get replacements? At least I can get the big guys done up while I wait.
Wait’ll you get Sky Sentinel. I think he may be a conspiracy to sell more of their sculpting putty. The gaps in his wings are crazy.
I'll be super excited to update my pirates. It was one of my favorite fun lists in MK2 and just didn't really work in MK3 at all. Most of this stuff is modernizing old metal jacks, but I need some powder monkeys ASAP!
ImAGeek wrote: I hope the 2nd colossal on the Galleon chassis means a double plastic kit.
I'm certain it does. It's got a different head, different chest guns and different arms same as the other double plastic kits. The concept art even goes out of its way to highlight the few bits that are different. Actually, this CID is an interesting peak behind the curtain in that regard. They had announced this stuff as a CID for last Sept originally then pushed it back about half a year. Seeing what's in it, we can see there's a couple likely sprue plastic kits (Galleon/Blockader and Mariner/Freebooter/Swabber) that probably means the delay was caused by overseas manufacturing. More interesting still is noting that the jacks are all copyright 2016 while the small based stuff they do in house is marked 2018. It paints a pretty clear timeline of the difference in control they have working in house vs overseas and how big of a difference it makes in terms of the release schedule. Likewise, I assume the Swashbuckler will be using a bunch of parts that lets them resculpt the Buccaneer in resin/metal as well.
Theophony wrote: Thanks everyone, my wallet hates you all . I picked up the GUARD starter set and Terra Khan, both to have fun painting at least. The starter set was missing all 4 tanks , but had the repair truck at least. I can’t say much about the quality of the models though as all had bad mold slippage and the spots for gates were poorly chosen causing loss of details or bad fits. There was also a bubble in the arm of defender X, but not terribly bad that it cannot be fixed.
I have sent a misplace request to PP, anyone know how long it takes to get replacements? At least I can get the big guys done up while I wait.
Wait’ll you get Sky Sentinel. I think he may be a conspiracy to sell more of their sculpting putty. The gaps in his wings are crazy.
Quick update, I emailed them about midnight and got them mid afternoon on the fourth day, so 3 working days for replacement parts. Well done Privateer Press . Also instead of just replacing the one arm they did both arms and head as they are on the same resin sprue. So I think I will hack up the spare arm to make a flying fist like he shot one off, and the spare head and maybe the miscast arm as base decoration or a wreckage marker of some type.
ImAGeek wrote: I hope the 2nd colossal on the Galleon chassis means a double plastic kit.
I'm certain it does. It's got a different head, different chest guns and different arms same as the other double plastic kits. The concept art even goes out of its way to highlight the few bits that are different. Actually, this CID is an interesting peak behind the curtain in that regard. They had announced this stuff as a CID for last Sept originally then pushed it back about half a year. Seeing what's in it, we can see there's a couple likely sprue plastic kits (Galleon/Blockader and Mariner/Freebooter/Swabber) that probably means the delay was caused by overseas manufacturing. More interesting still is noting that the jacks are all copyright 2016 while the small based stuff they do in house is marked 2018. It paints a pretty clear timeline of the difference in control they have working in house vs overseas and how big of a difference it makes in terms of the release schedule. Likewise, I assume the Swashbuckler will be using a bunch of parts that lets them resculpt the Buccaneer in resin/metal as well.
I hope there are plastics coming up for the jacks. I like the pirate stuff but once you get out of light jack territory metal is just too cumbersome.
Since they abandoned PVC its been pretty consistent. Non-character heavies have been sprue plastics sold in a 2-3 variant kit. Lights have been a mix of resin and metal, sold in individual packs but sharing a large number of parts. Assuming these follow the same pattern, I think all that would still be in metal would be the Dwarf jacks.
On a side note, I recently picked up Crucible Guard and finding myself really loving PP models again with the shift to resin. I had been happy with the MoW and Troll stuff I'd done, but this is the first time I've done big units of small based models. Really crisp stuff, lots of detail, very few parts. With a decent pair of clippers to clip off spouts I'm finding they assemble really quickly too. Metal seems to stick to resin really well.
The only Privateer Press minis I've bought since I got my first PVC infantry (which was horrid) has been january's L5R Mini Crate ones. The naga was resin with a metal arm, and Togashi Yokuni was full metal. Both were excellently casted.
LunarSol wrote: Since they abandoned PVC its been pretty consistent. Non-character heavies have been sprue plastics sold in a 2-3 variant kit. Lights have been a mix of resin and metal, sold in individual packs but sharing a large number of parts. Assuming these follow the same pattern, I think all that would still be in metal would be the Dwarf jacks.
On a side note, I recently picked up Crucible Guard and finding myself really loving PP models again with the shift to resin. I had been happy with the MoW and Troll stuff I'd done, but this is the first time I've done big units of small based models. Really crisp stuff, lots of detail, very few parts. With a decent pair of clippers to clip off spouts I'm finding they assemble really quickly too. Metal seems to stick to resin really well.
They’ve been mixing characters into the plastics as well. Both the recent Cryx kits each make a character.
I'm also wondering if the block adder (I have to call it that) is
not just a resin/metal kit like the Vulcan. The Vulcan and
Railless seemed like they were originally designed for hard
plastic and then got abandoned for resin/metal
Oh wow! I like those new Privateer Merc jack designs. I like the new pirate warcaster as well. She doesn't look like something from the cover of an 80's romance novel, like the other privateer pirates.
skullking wrote: Oh wow! I like those new Privateer Merc jack designs. I like the new pirate warcaster as well. She doesn't look like something from the cover of an 80's romance novel, like the other privateer pirates.
Agreed, those are pretty nice. I've built one of every other Privateer jack (excep the Galleon) and while they are nice sculpts, I really don't want to ever build one again. The Freebooter in particular was a lot of horrible pinning.
malfred wrote: I'm also wondering if the block adder (I have to call it that) is
not just a resin/metal kit like the Vulcan. The Vulcan and
Railless seemed like they were originally designed for hard
plastic and then got abandoned for resin/metal
I'm guessing they just realized that if they waited for the plastic to get done, CG would be without its biggest draw (TANKS!) for probably at least another year and decided to kick them out in resin instead. I don't think there's nearly as pressing of a timeline on a second pirate colossal, so they're probably happier with a "its done when its done" kind of timeline, which is why the Pirate CID got delayed... basically until they found out for sure it was done.
I'm hoping so too! And now with same heavy 'jack chassis they
can release a heavy kit for pirates too, but maybe that's hoping too
much. (Travis who has an idea of what's coming but doesn't
actually work work for privateer press has indicated as much on
facebook).
There's almost no incentive for them to release the Swabber except to fill out a 3 pack heavy kit to replace the Mariner/Freebooter. I don't think they'd bother with it if it wasn't letting them take some of the last metal jacks out of production. Pretty sure all that's left now are the dwarf jacks and some random character jacks.
I love the fact that, with Sylyss, I can now field almost all of my go-to solos with alts for Warmachine or CoI - just gotta hold out for a Dirty Meg.. and maybe a reasonably priced Alexia on eBay.
Is the bride of Arkadius a new character, or just a Gender bend of the existing minion warlock?
Would love to see them gender bend characters like Siege (still bald), the Butcher (no necessarily bald, but with 'crazy hair'), old witch (yes, a creepy old dude), Eiryss, Bagman (same model, just labeled the 'Baggette').
skullking wrote: Is the bride of Arkadius a new character, or just a Gender bend of the existing minion warlock?
Would love to see them gender bend characters like Siege (still bald), the Butcher (no necessarily bald, but with 'crazy hair'), old witch (yes, a creepy old dude), Eiryss, Bagman (same model, just labeled the 'Baggette').
They’ve already done an alt Ragman (‘Raggedy Mandy’):
Infernal info is certainly interesting. Still not the faction for me, but quite interesting.
Essence instead of Focus/Fury, hybrid of the 2.
Masters replace Warcaster/Warlocks and allocate and cast spells with Essence like Focus, but transfer like Fury. Essence does not go away at the end of the turn, but they only replenish by sacrificing cultists from their army.
Horrors replace Warjacks/Warbeasts. Have an Essence stat and start with full Essence, run and charge for free. At the end of the turn, they have to spend one Essence or are immediately removed from play. Masters can summon new Horrors in at the cost of their Essence stat, but only come in with 1 Essence.
Vertrucio wrote: For Mk4, they need to drop the whole WM Hordes split as it means nothing now, which is a good thing as it'll allow them to explore more.
I've been told in the past it has more to do now with the way SKUs are tracked through distribution and other legal matters.
I love it! Got a bit of an Everblight feel, but also I'm seeing a lot more Xenomorph in there! Everblights designs always seemed like they had places for eyes and a regular head, they just didn't have eyes; thus has that smooth domed head with nothing that suggests anything in its genetic history ever had eyes. And look its got huge bone wings -not stunted wings like Everbilghts Ravagers, but actual huge queen of blades/zergling ones!
The shape and design reminds me a LOT of the clockwork army - the four thing legs with heavy overlarge upper body and arms is very similar in core design; but the asthetics are totally different. I'll be interested to see what the others look like.
Plus that PP has moved away from their plastic material makes me even more keen to perhaps pick these up!
.Mikes. wrote: I feel the official colour scheme will make or break them.
You mean the white skin with red muscles showing on the drawings in the video ?
I don't find them particularly stellar. And I'm definitely not fond of the beasts standing on their "toes" like this.
I really wonder what Privateer Press is trying to do these times. Their website is weird these last days, their products are more difficult to get at retail and I see less and less people playing their games. Sounds like Infernals will be a hit or a miss, maybe crippling them for good.
PP has burned a few bridges with their newest edition rollout - it doesn't help that they burned a good chunk of their forum and their whole PG program in one go. That in itself kocked them hard because without a PG program the only person at many clubs who has a vested interest is a store owner and they are more likely to push magic the gathering because it makes them their bread and butter money.
That said they've picked up a new CEO recently so one can hope they can change things around. Getting some kind of local rep system back in place to help push the local market game. I think they can recover and retake their old hat of second biggest - it might take a bit of work to get there but I think they can do it.
A lot of the PG thing has to do with the local laws of the state of Washington that don't allow for volunteer employees, largely because of the tendency for tech companies to exploit unpaid interns. They need something to replace it, but the PG proper isn't likely to return.
Personally, I think the game is the best its been, but I'm tired of rehashing the argument at this point. I'd rather just play the game rather than remain upset about the social media surrounding it all any further.
LunarSol wrote: A lot of the PG thing has to do with the local laws of the state of Washington that don't allow for volunteer employees, largely because of the tendency for tech companies to exploit unpaid interns. They need something to replace it, but the PG proper isn't likely to return.
It was explained to me as a bit of a preemptive reaction by PP in response to the MTG judges class action lawsuit against WOTC, which is also about volunteers and reimbursement and whatnot. But yea, not a great move - I've talked with our ex-PG, who wholeheartedly believes in the company but feels distinctly unsupported in his efforts.
Sorta mixed on the horrors, I've seen much cooler blind fleshy beatstick monsters on KS and elsewhere, but not hating. Part of me wants to magnetize them up and give them a nice grimy dark paint job in the name of seeing how the faction works.
EDIT: I watched the video some more, things are growing on me, nice and burly. Bit contorted to fit in that 50mm column but they are game pieces.
Yeah the old PG system might not come back, but some form of it should return. Warmachine is fine for a while, but the PG program certainly brought in a lot more players and also kept local scenes running. Otherwise they run the risk of doing what GW was a few years back - bleeding fans at one end and not recruiting new ones at the other - dwindling populations and the high risk of generational gaps forming which makes it all the harder to recruit new younger active players.
I think its more important they just make the game more accessible. There's been talk about a 50 point SR packet that would be a nice step. I like my large armies, but I'm not totally sure they improve the parts of the game that really make it special anymore. Playing lower points is pretty miserable, but its largely because the scenarios demand you cover too much table to work well with less, but smaller point games put more focus on the caster, which I overall like. Having started CG recently, I'm reminded just how daunting getting up to the 2 list standard really is.
I also think its probably past due for a caster culling. No desire to invalidate models, but does Butcher2 really need bespoke rules when there's like 4-5 valid alt sculpts for Butcher1 at this point? I feel like you could probably cut 5 casters out of each faction easily without anyone losing their models. Of course, that's one of those things that would probably be good for the game but add to the whole "making all the wrong moves" social media angst.
Well of Orboros release. Please note in the description changes to EU shipping.
Preorder the Well of Orboros by March 25th, 2019, and receive a FREE Black Anchor Water
Bottle.
Preorders are expected to ship at the end of April 2019. Preorder quantity is limited to the
first 1,000 preorders. The Well of Orboros will be available as a normal item in the online
store after May 1st.
Black Anchor Heavy Industries Shipping
All BAHI preorders ship for free in the U.S. Any additional items ordered with the
preordered item will ship at the same time as the preordered item.
Attention, EU Customers: Effective immediately, all Black Anchor EU orders will ship from
the UK in order to eliminate additional local fees EU customers have been subject to in the
past. Orders will ship once per month from our Liverpool location. All BAHI preorders will
continue to ship for free internationally if they are ordered alone. Shipping charges for
additional items ordered with the preorder are reduced by 50% (applied after customer
selects a shipping option at checkout) and will ship with the preordered items.
Among the many powerful elemental tools built by the blackclads of the Circle Orboros, the
Wells of Orboros are perhaps the most versatile and awe inspiring. Most of these floating
edifices are ancient, having been built by former omnipotents at places of special
convergence. They tap into the sprawling ley line network of Caen, and by that connection,
each can facilitate the crossing of vast distances by forces of the Circle Orboros. The energy
that passes through them can be drawn upon to invoke seismic upheavals or to bolster and
empower both wolds and druids in their vicinity. A well has no will of its own, but each
responds instantly to the thoughts of blackclad leaders in a way that seems alive and
purposeful.
LunarSol wrote: Are they using a UK facility to get into the EU starting next month?
Whilst Brexit is likely going to make a mess of it, once the dust settles it will still be cheaper to ship from the UK into the rest of Europe than from the USA. Though its likely its been a major thorn for them as they likely started setting up their UK distribution system idea before Brexit got rolling and now they are stuck with it. It's still on the right side of the Atlantic Ocean.
LunarSol wrote: There's been talk about a 50 point SR packet that would be a nice step.
Really? That would be awesome, and would finally get me out to a SR again. I much prefer tight 50 point builds over the sprawling 75 pointers that I can never seem to hobby my way up to in a cohesive way / wrap my mind around. 75 points for me was always just packing in my animantarax (back when they were bad) and like Wrong Eye & Snappy or something and shrugging. Fast forward to these last few weeks where I'm making 50 point lists at work constantly and scheming about how I could get back into the game, then trying to expand to 75 and end up packing those schemes away
Having started CG recently, I'm reminded just how daunting getting up to the 2 list standard really is.
Orrrrr contemplate a second caster list and pack those schemes away further (I'm not a fan of 2 lists and typically just use the same list regardless )
LunarSol wrote: Are they using a UK facility to get into the EU starting next month?
Whilst Brexit is likely going to make a mess of it, once the dust settles it will still be cheaper to ship from the UK into the rest of Europe than from the USA. Though its likely its been a major thorn for them as they likely started setting up their UK distribution system idea before Brexit got rolling and now they are stuck with it. It's still on the right side of the Atlantic Ocean.
LunarSol wrote: There's been talk about a 50 point SR packet that would be a nice step.
Really? That would be awesome, and would finally get me out to a SR again. I much prefer tight 50 point builds over the sprawling 75 pointers that I can never seem to hobby my way up to in a cohesive way / wrap my mind around. 75 points for me was always just packing in my animantarax (back when they were bad) and like Wrong Eye & Snappy or something and shrugging. Fast forward to these last few weeks where I'm making 50 point lists at work constantly and scheming about how I could get back into the game, then trying to expand to 75 and end up packing those schemes away
Having started CG recently, I'm reminded just how daunting getting up to the 2 list standard really is.
Orrrrr contemplate a second caster list and pack those schemes away further (I'm not a fan of 2 lists and typically just use the same list regardless )
I'm not sure it will happen. The playerbase is entrenched and stubborn as they come, but the devs asked and there seemed to be a good amount of demand for it in between the "I will publicly burn my collection" responses.
I think it would be a good change at the moment, but I'm also completely burnt out on watching WM players react to change, so... IDK.
The trick isn't to ignore them, its to get them to change their viewpoint and come on board with a new direction. The Die-hards are a very critical market to keep an eye on because they can often be your most loyal customers who will not just play the game, but often sell it to others. This is especially critical for a game like Warmachine which basically relies heavily on the market to advertise and spread the word for them
GW can ignore very large chunks of their playerbase (heck in the Kirby days he was famous for "not doing market research/consumer research") because they've got stores on the highstreet to help push their game. And they can limp on doing that for a good long while - but when they listened and reacted and got in tune with a large portion of the market their sale skyrocketed.
PP needs to the same thing only far more so because they need the market fired up for their game. They can't rely on stores because stores are more likely to push card games or any game the store manager likes; or which has easy stock easy sales etc... Ergo they've no brand loyalty unless they've already heavily invested in the stock and need to shift it
It might actually be something PP needs to learn because they grew to power when there wasn't all that much competition. There was Warhammer and that was about it for major games with a big following. Now the market is flooded; you've got heavy weights like Starwars; you've got smaller companies doing well; you've got a lot of kickstarters that might never go mainstream but do eat up big chunks of cash from the market. It's a far more busy and messy market, though PP has a big trump card in that they are well established; do have internal resources and they do have staying power whilst many companies have folded or just floundered with only a small core fanbase.
Infernal rules are up. One of their themes is a ridiculously open ended balance nightmare I'll be surprised if it leaves CID intact. Other than that though, its a cool addition to the game. Not my think at all, but more what I expected when Grymkin were being teased.
LunarSol wrote:Infernal rules are up. One of their themes is a ridiculously open ended balance nightmare I'll be surprised if it leaves CID intact. Other than that though, its a cool addition to the game. Not my think at all, but more what I expected when Grymkin were being teased.
My thoughts on this are, did Llael resistance break Mercs or just provide a strong option? Two units
of anything is nice, but I doubt it breaks the game as some of the most punishing combos require
a character (like Trencher long gunners) or saturation (Doom Reavers)
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Actually kind of tempted by that well thing just as terrain.
Will depend on the price, I guess.
60 USD
Automatically Appended Next Post:
There's a lot to process for me, and I can't really dive into it yet. So watch the videos for now. It's about two hours worth all told.
So out of all those concept drawings there's perhaps one or two I don't like, one or two that look a bit plain (mostly troops who just look like its standard plain posing for concept drawing) and a LOT I REALLY like the look of!
LunarSol wrote:Infernal rules are up. One of their themes is a ridiculously open ended balance nightmare I'll be surprised if it leaves CID intact. Other than that though, its a cool addition to the game. Not my think at all, but more what I expected when Grymkin were being teased.
My thoughts on this are, did Llael resistance break Mercs or just provide a strong option? Two units
of anything is nice, but I doubt it breaks the game as some of the most punishing combos require
a character (like Trencher long gunners) or saturation (Doom Reavers)
That was my first reaction before I realized that you take a caster from one of those factions as well. That theme gives Infernals 47 additional casters to play with and create some pretty scary matchup combos like Syvestro/Haley3 and the like. It's also got some terrible fluff impacts, like an Infernal army lead by Old Witch 2, who just raised an army of nightmares specifically to fend the Infernals off.
LunarSol wrote:Infernal rules are up. One of their themes is a ridiculously open ended balance nightmare I'll be surprised if it leaves CID intact. Other than that though, its a cool addition to the game. Not my think at all, but more what I expected when Grymkin were being teased.
My thoughts on this are, did Llael resistance break Mercs or just provide a strong option? Two units
of anything is nice, but I doubt it breaks the game as some of the most punishing combos require
a character (like Trencher long gunners) or saturation (Doom Reavers)
That was my first reaction before I realized that you take a caster from one of those factions as well. That theme gives Infernals 47 additional casters to play with and create some pretty scary matchup combos like Syvestro/Haley3 and the like. It's also got some terrible fluff impacts, like an Infernal army lead by Old Witch 2, who just raised an army of nightmares specifically to fend the Infernals off.
The old witch interaction is weird, but she’s always done what she does.
Maybe this is a corrupted old witch? Or double agent witch?
LunarSol wrote: It's also got some terrible fluff impacts, like an Infernal army lead by Old Witch 2, who just raised an army of nightmares specifically to fend the Infernals off.
LunarSol wrote: It's also got some terrible fluff impacts, like an Infernal army lead by Old Witch 2, who just raised an army of nightmares specifically to fend the Infernals off.
Worse than Butcher1 fighting against Butcher3?
In a character rich game, this was always going to come up.
Everything they’ve tried to branch out into fails. Granted every IK spin off fails too... Really hoping the current edition of MonPoc bucks the trend. Riot Quest otherwise will benefit from the RQ models having rules for or being able to be used as proxies in Warmachine, so they can still benefit from that established market.
DamonRafael wrote: Is Riot Quest freely inspired from League of Legends?
I'mma just say it: Instead of all these LOL-esque pseudo-MOBA games on the market that do nothing for me, I would be super interested in an actual League minigame. I retired from the game a few years back but miss the heroes and lore and whatnot. Just really not turned on by colorful rehashes trying to tap that market.
MonPoc 2.0 continues to be pretty cool to me, but also continues to have zero presence locally, product or gamers
DamonRafael wrote: Is Riot Quest freely inspired from League of Legends?
I'mma just say it: Instead of all these LOL-esque pseudo-MOBA games on the market that do nothing for me, I would be super interested in an actual League minigame. I retired from the game a few years back but miss the heroes and lore and whatnot. Just really not turned on by colorful rehashes trying to tap that market.
MonPoc 2.0 continues to be pretty cool to me, but also continues to have zero presence locally, product or gamers
Some board games got kickstarted and whatnot.
You could also play Artifact on Steam, which is Dota2 CCG.
League (and other mobas) has some good/fun character concepts. I'm
not particularly interested in the game, but I've always liked their characters.
I think my deal is that I'm really not interested in derivatives or alternate MOBAs, I sort of stumbled into League and spent three years really growing into that cast of characters, which I miss more than the game itself (I went back about a year ago, in a moment* of boozy weakness. Was mostly reminded why I left the game / that I suck now). So I just want Rito to license out that IP into a decent minigame with above average minis and let me throw my money at them again
*moment, as in I had to update for an hour, which was fine because I had drinking to do
I got a kick from their "social media engagement" on Infernals. Not saying people aren't excited for them; just curious what percentage was people losing their minds over Hearts of Darkness.
Riot Quest is curious, but they keep using chaotic in a way that concerns me.
I've been collecting the buildings for MonPoc but I really need to get playing. I mostly just fell behind on painting and can't decide what I actually want. The answer is everything, but I really don't want a giant collection of units to never get around to painting.
Boss Salvage wrote: I think my deal is that I'm really not interested in derivatives or alternate MOBAs, I sort of stumbled into League and spent three years really growing into that cast of characters, which I miss more than the game itself (I went back about a year ago, in a moment* of boozy weakness. Was mostly reminded why I left the game / that I suck now). So I just want Rito to license out that IP into a decent minigame with above average minis and let me throw my money at them again
*moment, as in I had to update for an hour, which was fine because I had drinking to do
I hear you. That's very much where I'll be should anything happen to warmachine or how
most of dakka will be if something happened to 40k.
AduroT wrote: Really hoping the current edition of MonPoc bucks the trend.
You and me both, buddy. I'm all in on MocPoc. It's not my favorite miniatures game, but it is one that I end up playing a lot, I always enjoy it when I do, and I've been looking forward to every release (I need those apes)... which I guess is a pretty strong argument for it deserving to be my favorite miniatures game...
But I think it must be doing pretty well. It seems to go out of stock pretty regularly and I've had to shop at multiple stores just to pick up everything. Seems to be doing better than their Warmachine releases, at least.
Vertrucio wrote: Should have launched with boardgame style boards.
Out of vague interest - as I'm not currently planning on picking up MonPoc, but I'm working on avoiding saying never - what did it launch with?
Folding paper maps. Would have preferred boardgame style boards over neoprene, easier to transport multiples, but either is better than what they have now.
I dig the neoprene With MonPoc 1 I used a sheet of poster frame plastic over the paper mats, was ok but involved carrying around a sheet of hard plastic
Boss Salvage wrote: I dig the neoprene With MonPoc 1 I used a sheet of poster frame plastic over the paper mats, was ok but involved carrying around a sheet of hard plastic
Yeah, I ordered some top loaders but those are larger than the maps.
I made a joke in the KOWFB group about wanting to make a KOW army out of these ... but in all seriousness, there're some great KOW uses for these models, even just on first blush. Flying gribblies, characters and shooty monsters in particular.
General Hondo – Empire of the Apes Monster (resin)
PIP 51060 MSRP: $28.99*
Though he is not their king, General Hondo is the Empire of the Apes’ greatest military leader. Hondo is responsible for the widespread seizure and deployment of human military hardware by ape troops fighting Earth’s potential destroyers. He is also fond of military uniforms and medals. Hondo’s methods suggest a degree of tactical and strategic depth once thought exclusive to Homo sapiens. He enjoys bringing missile-launching platform with him and savors the resulting explosions, another trait shared with his human counterparts.
TRADE POINTS: General Hondo is a long-ranged support monster that can be added to any Protectors force. He shelters his fellow apes, helping them to safely cross the city while his Explosive ranged attacks punish any enemy units that stand too close together. When he goes hyper, he rapidly reloads his missile launcher to put out even more damage, and he inspires his units to hit harder with their ranged weapons as well.
Infernals aren't my thing, but I'm super excited to see them in the game.
Hondo looks amazing. Love the truck missile launcher. Sad it means it might be a while before we see Gakura though. Train-whip was one of my favorites.
I may pick up a few random Infernals. No intention of starting a new army to collect, but a few of those models look like they'd fit in nicely with all the Nightstalker stuff I already have for Kings of War: Vanguard.
I may pick up a few random Infernals. No intention of starting a new army to collect, but a few of those models look like they'd fit in nicely with all the Nightstalker stuff I already have for Kings of War: Vanguard.
I don't think there's been a miniature announced in the past three years that wasn't immediately followed up with "This is/isn't going in my Kings of War army".
Hondo looks great, glad to see the apes making a comeback for their new monster game.
Even though they aren't very steampunk, I feel like the Infernals fit the Warmahordes aesthetics pretty well. The Crucible guard were definitely a big step in moving back on course since the Grymkin, so I hope people like the infernals as well.
I see PP redid their website, so I hope things are on the upswing for them.
Honestly I think they do the whole horror/darkness thing better than Grymkin - then again Grymkin are a very odd army and "almost" as close to a "joke" army as Warmachine gets.
Infernals are definitely more of what I expected from the setting when Grymkin were being teased. They're a long standing part of the world and the kind of otherworldly horror you'd expect to come across in the IKRPG.
I overall quite like Grymkin though; I just think the timing of their release is odd. If they had been released in closer proximity to Infernals I think they would have fit in the setting a bit better. Had, for example, Holden's options not been to be a Merc or suffer a Grym fate instead resulted in him becoming some kind of Infernal, I think the Defier's role would have been a lot clearer.
Mostly though, I just REALLY wish Grymkin's warbeasts had a different aesthetic. If they had all been like the Clockatrice I doubt I could have ignored the faction, but the beasts we got really seem at odds with the appeal of the rest of it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Tons of info in the dev chat today. Looks like the War of Souls in Urcaen is coming to Caen proper with the Archon models being Avatars of the major deities. Super excited there's going to be a proper Umbrey theme. Vlad was my first caster and I've always wanted to see his little subtheme brought to the fore.
Today's DevChat there was a lot of spoiling of information for Warmachine: Oblivion. According to Hungerford and Olsen, they have the Community Development (playtesting) set to start next week Wednesday, April 17, provided that Oz can come back from KingdomCon in one piece (that last part is conjecture on my part).
The first part of the spoiler was the three themes that were going to go live with Oblivion.
Theme 1: Hearts of Darkness
Hearts of Darkness has been adjusted from its original wide open play. the word they used was "controversial." They haven't said which casters would be in the theme, but they announced the factions: 1 each from Cygnar, Protectorate, Khador, Crucible Guard, Merc, Cryx? (Not sure about Cryx, I must have missed it, but I'm reading Cryx in other people's notes, so I'll add that here.
As part of this, there's a lot of conjecture as to how they will select casters. Like, how thematic will they get with this release or are they looking to push specific playstyles from each faction?
It's unlikely that the Cygnar caster will be Stryker, unless it's only Stryker2 (so-called "Darth Stryker") for thematic purposes as they're giving him the Morrowan tag (more on that later). So people are throwing around Jakes or pretty much anyone. I don't think I've heard a good argument for any one single caster yet.
Protectorate everyone is looking at Feora as she angles to become Hierarch, or Reznik, for dabbling too close to death. One problem is both of these casters have Epic Cavalry versions who can play in the second theme force, so maybe they don't want that kind of overlap. To make matters even more muddled, Hungerford jumped into the discussion on the facebook group and just said "What if it's Severius" and dipped.
Khador people are looking at Karchev.
I haven't managed to follow the rest of the conversations.
Theme 2: Warriors of the Old Faith
Warriors of the Old Faith is going to be the Protectorate/Khador theme that my notes don't describe as to how that will work. Basically, Khador and Protectorate Cavalry models (Reznik2 is exciting!), and all Cavalry models would get a new ability from it.
The current lineup of Cavalry casters from both Khador and Protectorate are Reznik2, Kreoss3, Feora3, Vlad3.
The model line itself has a wide variety. Shotgun Greylords. Uhlans. Vengers. Daughters (I forget the official name of them, the ones on horseback ofc), Hand of Silence (wooo), Stalin.
Fenris?
I'm wondering if they'll limit which ones will be included.
Theme 3: Flame in the Darkness
This is the Morrowan/Thamarite theme. Stryker becomes morrowan. The army itself counts as a mercenaries theme. Constance Blaize is getting an update. I don't think they said anything else about the theme. I'm assuming that the 12 other releases in Oblivion will be split between the two twins.
Archons
The other spoiler they had for this devchat was the Archons. Because of the incursion of the Infernals, manifestations of divinities are appearing on Caen to fight against them. And there's a wide variety of their rules.
Overall they will be 8-9 (other notes I've seen say 6-9) points, and we'll see the artwork for them next week along with their rules.
These models are mercenary/minion models, but some of them will be partisan, allowing them to benefit from faction interactions.
Morrowan Archon
This is the one you see flying above and behind Omodamos in the Oblivion artwork. He is defensive and supportive in nature.
Menite Archon
Giant armored flaming angel. Offensive and aggro. It's going to dive into the mix and force enemies to find ways to remove it. It has some kind of fire ability, and it will take some resources to shift.
Thamarite Archon
This is a ranged assassin with a holy bow and wings (pictured above). It has ranged dps with support elements to it.
Dhunian Archon
Looks nothing like the other ones. It's not an angel, but an earth mother type. They said to picture the Dhunian Knot but bigger, even though it's on the same sized base.
The Dhunian Archon is said to be a pure support model. "Best support you'll see in the game" one of the two developers said (I was too busy typing notes). The words "force multiplier" were used. Both Trolls and Circle might have access to this one.
Void Archon
Giant whirlpool of darkness is what my notes say. Its role is pure disruption. Might be like void spirits, so maybe Poltergeist as a rule? This one Cryx and Ret have access to. Not sure who else.
Primal Archon
Walking mountain thing on a large base. It's a beater with a control ability that prevents enemy models to place within 12" of it. It looks like it's going to be a counter to circle.
And who has access to it? Circle. Not sure who else. Maybe Legion.
So what it looks like is Oblivion will have those 6 models, 12 other entries to test, and Constance Blaize. I'm guessing the two theme forces will allow you to take archons as free selections (Thamar/Morrow for Flame in the Darkness and Menite for Old Faith), but they haven't said much on that point only that free selections will be allowed "where it makes sense."
Earlier, I think this would be enough for me to jump back into WM, but, between Legion of the Damned and Tyrant's Legion (40k), various Malifaux themes, and WM's very own Bad Seeds, I've been burnt just too often by faction mashups being a cool, narrative, and thematic thing and then getting canned or abandoned.
Hopefully the Dhunian one will be in Children of Dhunia
My first guess for the Khador caster would be Malakov, but there are many good options. Apparently Zerkova was outright denied.
Super excited for Warriors of the Old Faith. Hopefully it ends up working well for both sides. The state of Choir in it will be very interesting.
Really excited for the Archons. Hopefully we learn more sooner than later.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
spiralingcadaver wrote: Earlier, I think this would be enough for me to jump back into WM, but, between Legion of the Damned and Tyrant's Legion (40k), various Malifaux themes, and WM's very own Bad Seeds, I've been burnt just too often by faction mashups being a cool, narrative, and thematic thing and then getting canned or abandoned.
Didn't bad seeds just get turned into Kingmaker's Army?
LunarSol wrote: Didn't bad seeds just get turned into Kingmaker's Army?
They took out IIRC non-C trencher solos, trencher units other than the basic one, rangers, sword knights, charger, defender, sentinel, I think some merc solos. It allowed you to pretty much play a funky half oldschool Cygnar, half fast skirmishing army. It had a pretty unique feel, and I put a lot of effort into running with that theme.
LunarSol wrote: Didn't bad seeds just get turned into Kingmaker's Army?
They took out IIRC non-C trencher solos, trencher units other than the basic one, rangers, sword knights, charger, defender, sentinel, I think some merc solos. It allowed you to pretty much play a funky half oldschool Cygnar, half fast skirmishing army. It had a pretty unique feel, and I put a lot of effort into running with that theme.
Rangers are still allowed. Forgot Sword Knights were part of it (or part of the game for that matter...) Fair enough though. The heavy crossover between Mercs and Cygnar was definitely something lost in the transition. It was a thing I was kind of happy to see go personally and I pretty much lost access to my Cygnar stuff, but I get the frustration from people more invested in it than I was.
Are they changing the lore behind Archons? Iirc they are mortals who have ascended to a sort of demigod status and only really Morrow and Thamar did it with their followers. Menoth’s whole thing was kind of hoarding divinity and didn’t want to share it with the mortals, just use their souls for himself and his war with the wyrm.
This thing really confuses the whole Skorne thing. I mean, it was already a little bit of a fuzzy line, but if this thing represents their afterlife AND Ret, it really confuses things.
LunarSol wrote: This thing really confuses the whole Skorne thing. I mean, it was already a little bit of a fuzzy line, but if this thing represents their afterlife AND Ret, it really confuses things.
I don't think they're the afterlife per se. They are manifestations of power.
LunarSol wrote: This thing really confuses the whole Skorne thing. I mean, it was already a little bit of a fuzzy line, but if this thing represents their afterlife AND Ret, it really confuses things.
I don't think they're the afterlife per se. They are manifestations of power.
They each represent one of the major deities of Urcaen.
Marrow
Thamar
Menoth
Dhunia
The Wurm
The Void
Those are the major soul collectors of the afterlife, since the elven gods are either dead or stuck on Caen and the dwarves killed their gods to be free of them. The only one missing would be Cyriss it apparently has some connection with the void.
Pretty sure Archons are like Demi-gods or Saints. Mortals that have been elevated by gods, but not full on gods themselves. Marrow and Thamar were pretty big on them.
The look of the Archons is cool, but I don't really see myself using them. They remind me of the Endless spells in AoS.
I'd love it if they added stuff like rogue beasts, and more interesting Mercs/Minions to the game, rather than these. But, I suppose it fits the theme of the infernals coming in, more than anything else.
I'm still surprised the Orgoth aren't coming back as an enemy? I admittedly hadn't paid attention to Warmahordes lore for at least a decade, but they were always considered the 'Baddest of the Bad' from what I recall. The infernals were just a few monsters in the rpg. They look cooler now though, and I'm guessing they've been built up to be something dangerous in the lore these days. Still... I'd love to see the orgoth come back at some point, but maybe that's a 'last gasp' move for PP?
LunarSol wrote: My excitement for the old faith theme is pretty topped out at this point.
You'll be in your bunk until noonish CST tomorrow?
Hopefully after as well!
The problem with the Orgoth is they'd need to come back with a new gimmick. They were scary pre-Magic/pre-Warjacks but the whole point of them is that the current state of warfare in the Iron Kingdoms was created to drive them out (and Circle gave them a killer plague to finish them off back home as well). They don't really have anything to offer the setting anymore as if they were just coastal invaders they'd be little more than a Satyxis/Khador hybrid.
Infernals lore wise were the IKRPG version of Mythos horrors for the most part. Excuses to tell stories of evil cults summoning horrid monsters into our reality. The reason they're important now is because of all the work that's been done to flesh out the afterlife and tie back to the Orgoth backstory. The Orgoth enslaved humanity until humanity was given the Gift of magic by Thamar. It's never been totally clear how Thamar gave humanity magic, but it involved a deal with dark forces and apparently resulted in the elves being born without souls. Infernals have generally been assumed to be the dark forces and their return basically means that the bill for magic is due and they want all the souls Thamar promised them.
Dhunian Archon
Hermit of Henge Hold
Grand Master Gabriel Throne
Thamarite Advocate
Order of Illumination Resolutes
Legion of Lost Souls
Morrowan Battle Priest
I've been waiting for this army/faction/theme/whatever since like 2004. I am hyped to the max on Order of Illumination Morrowan Cygnar.
So. Friggin. Happy!
Now all I need are powered stormsuits on medium bases as a Cygnar counter to Man-o-war and everything on my 15-year-long wishlist will have come to fruition.
Pugnacious_Cee wrote: I've been waiting for this army/faction/theme/whatever since like 2004. I am hyped to the max on Order of Illumination Morrowan Cygnar.
So. Friggin. Happy!
Now all I need are powered stormsuits on medium bases as a Cygnar counter to Man-o-war and everything on my 15-year-long wishlist will have come to fruition.
There's a medium base unit in the playtest, though they don't have an artwork dossier thingy yet
Pugnacious_Cee wrote: I've been waiting for this army/faction/theme/whatever since like 2004. I am hyped to the max on Order of Illumination Morrowan Cygnar.
So. Friggin. Happy!
Now all I need are powered stormsuits on medium bases as a Cygnar counter to Man-o-war and everything on my 15-year-long wishlist will have come to fruition.
There's a medium base unit in the playtest, though they don't have an artwork dossier thingy yet
Oh my, I've been out since Mk3 dropped but OOI and storm suits, I can feel the pull starting.
Now all I need are powered stormsuits on medium bases as a Cygnar counter to Man-o-war and everything on my 15-year-long wishlist will have come to fruition.
Several Factions have gotten 'Big Dude' 40mm based infantry, like the Cinerators, Centrati, Crucible Guard Storm Troopers, etc. But what has always set the Man-o-Wars apart was (aside from 3 more hit boxes), they're repairable by mechanics. I think this was initially because they were Khador's substitute for Light jacks (despite their being light khador jacks in 'Grind', and the Scrapjack). So, whereas I can see Cygnar getting some 40mm armored troops, I don't see them quite being 'man-0-War equivalents' for that reason. could easily be wrong though, as, most of the factions get more and more of the same troops/solos/etc as they have grown over the years.
Also, Very much digging that Archon of Dhunia! Hope they're on a 120mm base, that would be cool!
The more I read about this Oblivion stuff, the more it sounds like Warhammer Battle - the End Times.
Is Privateer Press trying to pull out a reboot of their game/universe somehow ? Because, well...it really doesn't sound good for the world with this Infernal invasion and litteral avatars of gods coming into battle.
Now all I need are powered stormsuits on medium bases as a Cygnar counter to Man-o-war and everything on my 15-year-long wishlist will have come to fruition.
Several Factions have gotten 'Big Dude' 40mm based infantry, like the Cinerators, Centrati, Crucible Guard Storm Troopers, etc. But what has always set the Man-o-Wars apart was (aside from 3 more hit boxes), they're repairable by mechanics. I think this was initially because they were Khador's substitute for Light jacks (despite their being light khador jacks in 'Grind', and the Scrapjack). So, whereas I can see Cygnar getting some 40mm armored troops, I don't see them quite being 'man-0-War equivalents' for that reason. could easily be wrong though, as, most of the factions get more and more of the same troops/solos/etc as they have grown over the years.
Also, Very much digging that Archon of Dhunia! Hope they're on a 120mm base, that would be cool!
I'm not sure why the frog lady has boobs but I still kind of like that concept art! She looks like she knows where to find the best weed to commune with nature lol.
Also that gatling trollkin, I must have it for my trollkin army he fits the theme 100%!!! He could make a pretty good slugger leader, but I hope he'll get rules that are stronger than what sluggers get.
PP does sculpts that I love, like, dislike, or hate, but they're always technically competent. That Eiryss just looks shockingly terrible though, like it was sculpted by a beginner. Fortunately there are plenty of good sculpts of her to use.
That gobber gunslinger is the best and I need it. I heard the Black 13th might have a job opening...
I'm not sure why the frog lady has boobs but I still kind of like that concept art! She looks like she knows where to find the best weed to commune with nature lol.
Also that gatling trollkin, I must have it for my trollkin army he fits the theme 100%!!!
He could make a pretty good slugger leader, but I hope he'll get rules that are stronger than what sluggers get.
Because Dhunia is a fertility-style goddess worshipped by lots of Trollkin.
AegisGrimm wrote: Because Dhunia is a fertility-style goddess worshipped by lots of Trollkin.
I know who Dhunia is I'm just saying, frogs aren't mammals so they don't have boobs!
Also IIRC she is sometime being credited for creating both the wurm and menoth so I guess that would make her the most powerful god of the whole setting .
AegisGrimm wrote: Because Dhunia is a fertility-style goddess worshipped by lots of Trollkin.
I know who Dhunia is I'm just saying, frogs aren't mammals so they don't have boobs!
Also IIRC she is sometime being credited for creating both the wurm and menoth so I guess that would make her the most powerful god of the whole setting .
Not a frog, she's the creator of the Trollkin, of course her avatar looks like a Trollkin.
Sorry in advance to fans of Warmachine/ Hordes. This is coming from a fan of the game until right before they introduced the Crucible Guard and the dumb robot faction. I want to be excited for Riot Quest, but I'm not. The Iron Kingdoms started with a swords and sorcery fantasy world, with crude gunnery thrown in, and now it's evolving into 40K. Given a choice, I'll play 40K. Privateer Press has really lost their way. People are dumping their collections on ebay, the Warmachine/Hordes community has dried up/gone away at my game store. The whole world needs a reset. I was hoping the Infernals book would bring on an Apocalypse/reset, but it looks like it's turning Riot Quest into a copy of Kill Team, and not in a good way. They needed to get low tech, not kick the tech up to space opera level. Their community is too competitive and scares off new players. Their eradication of printed material means there is no buy in to a rich story line. We have a dead-pool, and PP is on my list.
I'm not sure why the frog lady has boobs but I still kind of like that concept art! She looks like she knows where to find the best weed to commune with nature lol.
Also that gatling trollkin, I must have it for my trollkin army he fits the theme 100%!!!
He could make a pretty good slugger leader, but I hope he'll get rules that are stronger than what sluggers get.
That’s Boomhowler so he’ll almost certainly work for trolls as is.
Oh he is a faction model too thanks to my tier list. Which doesn't change anything at all because I have no models with rules that affect faction models lol.
Really enjoying the weekly live dev chats on youtube/twitch/FB Privateer Press does these days. As far as I'm aware there is no other companies out there who are openly discussing the actual gameplay and balance of their games and reasoning behind changes as thoroughly as these guys are. Pretty much all community interactivity from other companies right now seems to be nothing more than product advertisement in one for or another.
anab0lic wrote: Really enjoying the weekly live dev chats Privateer Press does these days. As far as I'm aware there is no other companies out there who are openly discussing the actual gameplay and balance of their games and reasoning behind changes as thoroughly as these guys are. Pretty much all community interactivity from other companies right now seems to be nothing more than product advertisement in one for or another.
Doesn't Warhammer Community kind of do this? I don't read too much there though.
anab0lic wrote: Really enjoying the weekly live dev chats Privateer Press does these days. As far as I'm aware there is no other companies out there who are openly discussing the actual gameplay and balance of their games and reasoning behind changes as thoroughly as these guys are. Pretty much all community interactivity from other companies right now seems to be nothing more than product advertisement in one for or another.
Doesn't Warhammer Community kind of do this? I don't read too much there though.
GW will talk about changes they have made, on a high level. The only mention of any sort of fan interaction is mostly in reference to what their polling of testers has shown. I'm not sure if GW takes questions as fans ask on their live streams (I haven't seen it, but could easily have not been paying attention), but definitely PP is taking questions (I think from their twitch, or Facebook streaming comments), and answers them live (assuming they can, with the hosts they have). GW does more of this sort of thing at conventions, but I think they like to not be quite so open, as you get locked into stuff by giving away too much info to your community. And especially with all the plates they're trying to spin at once, things can get messed up easily. Just look at the delayed Sylvaneth stuff.
he new Riot Quest game from Privateer Press will launch in August with the Riot Quest Starter Box and the J.A.I.M.s Riot Quest Guard miniature.
Hinted at late last year (see “Privateer Teases 2019 Releases”), Riot Quest is a miniatures-based board game set in the same “Iron Kingdoms” world as Privateer’s Warmachine. In this stand-alone game, players lead teams of scavengers trying to gather as much treasure as they can from the ruins of the Iron Kingdoms. It is designed for battles between very small teams that include only a handful of miniatures, featuring fast-paced and unpredictable skirmishes.
The Riot Quest Starter Box includes all of the game materials one player needs to play the game: 5 unpainted miniatures with stat cards, 15 dice, an arena map, 32 cards, and tokens. MSRP is $49.99.
Riot Quest is designed for head-to-head or multi-player games with up to four players, and each player needs their own copy of the Starter Box to play. The miniatures included in the set are designed to create a well-balanced team, or players can substitute other hobby miniatures for their team.
Privateer will also offer a line of miniatures specifically intended for use with Riot Quest, starting with J.A.I.M.s. This metal miniature depicts a clockwork warrior, officially called “Jacobsen’s Amazing Iron Maiden.” MSRP is $14.99.
Also a shot of the game board. Not seen this before personally but don't know if it's new to this article.
Automatically Appended Next Post: wow. At full size you can easily tell everything is composited together in photoshop.
One of the locals would love if it was Kondo, because he’s torn between robots and gorillas, I think it’s supposed to be Gorgonzola, or at least I’d heard he was one of their first awhile back.
And yeah, the photoshop on the Riot Quest photo is particularly poorly done. Do note the game uses the MonPoc dice.
AduroT wrote: And yeah, the photoshop on the Riot Quest photo is particularly poorly done. Do note the game uses the MonPoc dice.
I'm not one to defend PP, but that looks like a proof of concept, not an attempt to create any illusion of a finished product...
Which if this was still stuff from last year when it was in development and not marketing materials being used to solicit sales for a game due out in three months, I could see that.
AduroT wrote: One of the locals would love if it was Kondo, because he’s torn between robots and gorillas, I think it’s supposed to be Gorgonzola, or at least I’d heard he was one of their first awhile back.
Yeah, I seem to recall, it was cyber khan, and a mecha planet eater in the first series, maybe mecha Cthugaroth (sp?) not sure? Mecha Kondo was def series 2 (5). I thought they were bad guys too, like shadow sun in monsterpockalypse, but not sure in this new game?
I always loved Ubercorp as this huge conglomerate, trying to cash in on the monster destruction with no original ideas. They just make robot versions of everything, and advertise their wins like crazy. I always thought it would be funny if they sold ad space on their monsters/units. Perhaps I’ll paint a giant Pepsi ad on cyber khan, and a movie poster for some rom-com on one of the units.
Privateer is having another mystery box sale as they need to move their office/warehouse which explains why they've been doing this over the past few months from the sounds of it.
from reddit:
I've seen it crop it here and in a couple other threads, like Facebook, asking about the move. If you weren't aware, our office/warehouse/factory building thing is located in Bellevue, only a couple minutes away from where Lock and Load is held. Bellevue is where I've lived all my life, and it started as a little suburb that has grown into a very, very expensive place. It kind of has a reputation as where all the rich soccer moms live (they actually live in Issaquah). The reason we are moving is because the city is building a big mass transit... thing, literally in our parking lot. They've been working on it for years. It'll be a big train thing that connects across the lake into Seattle. Well, Bellevue doesn't really zone for industrial anymore. It is much more a commercial downtown hub kind of place these days, so we have to move up the freeway to find a new office that will allow us to ship/produce/have an office, etc. So, yeah. We'll still be "in Seattle," just 15-30 minutes (depending on your commute) further north.
Privateer Press will be relocating our headquarters before the end of the year, which means moving EVERYTHING in our factory and warehouse.
So, we’re blowing out our overstocked items in the form of fat mystery boxes containing ridiculous values!
Until the end of May, order a Spring Cleaning Mystery Box and get $200+ worth of WARMACHINE or HORDES models, along with a host of other items that may include pins, plushies, and books (bringing the deal to at least a $300 value) for only $69.99 (Domestic U.S. shipping included!). Each mystery box will contain an assortment of WARMACHINE or HORDES models from a single random Faction. You can purchase up to 4 mystery boxes in a single transaction without any duplicate Factions.
I hope they are expanding to a far better bigger site and it sounds like their old one (or rather current for the time being) is really not suited to them any more either. So hopefully its a big positive move for them
And darn it I wish they could faction lock the mystery boxes at least - then again I'm not in the USA and blown out of hobby budget so its probably good thing they don't though I now want GW to do mystery boxes at that price!
$70 with shipping included? Uggggggggh I'm tempted, and also an idiot for getting more WMH / minis in general If I could pick at least WM or H I'd probably hit it right now, instead of letting it stew and seeing if I can tactically forget ...
So glad they went for mecha Godzilla right away. I think they had previously teased Gorgahadra instead. Still, nothing is quite as inspired to me as basing a robot off of the literal embodiment of the uncaring cosmos whose mere presence drives madness. I liked be the idea that someone thought, yeah let’s make a mecha version of that thing.
Overread wrote: I hope they are expanding to a far better bigger site and it sounds like their old one (or rather current for the time being) is really not suited to them any more either. So hopefully its a big positive move for them
And darn it I wish they could faction lock the mystery boxes at least - then again I'm not in the USA and blown out of hobby budget so its probably good thing they don't though I now want GW to do mystery boxes at that price!
Games workshop can't even get their production/ distribution right for their box sets.. maybe they would be better off throwing random stuff in the boxes as they sure can't seem to get the box sets right
Ah man, I'm a sucker for mystery boxes. Probably 50% of WMH models are aesthetically unpleasing to me, but I'm still tempted. Did I mention I'm a sucker for mystery boxes?
They do a good job of coordinating the Mystery boxes with a new release from Black Anchor. I really love that new Merc colossal, and if I'm going to get it, why not a mystery box too?
That's awesome! I really hope they'll give us enough female Doom Reavers so we can field a whole unit with this escort.
Also, I noticed in the new game that UberCorp is part of the Destroyers. Weren't they the same agenda as Shadow Sun (who are protectors in the new game) in MonPoc? Strange that they'd have them switch sides, but the Kraken seems to be a protector now, rather than a Destroyer like the Martians (they were both in the 'invaders' agenda, in MonPoc before). I don't mind so much that they want to switch groups to different factions, but I'm sad that I can't have Robo Kondo, and King Kondo on one team, since the new game doesn't allow you to mix between factions.
skullking wrote: Also, I noticed in the new game that UberCorp is part of the Destroyers. Weren't they the same agenda as Shadow Sun (who are protectors in the new game) in MonPoc? Strange that they'd have them switch sides, but the Kraken seems to be a protector now, rather than a Destroyer like the Martians (they were both in the 'invaders' agenda, in MonPoc before). I don't mind so much that they want to switch groups to different factions, but I'm sad that I can't have Robo Kondo, and King Kondo on one team, since the new game doesn't allow you to mix between factions.
I like the swap myself, and makes the evil robot versions of good monsters all the more eeevil.
Related: My buddy just bought GUARD starter, so it looks like it's on! I'mma start rebasing my collection to clear acrylic until Savage Swarm returns and I can go ham on some big bug bois
LunarSol wrote: Originally they were essentially in league with the martians anyway. Maybe they’re willing to sell out humanity for a ticket off this rock?
Really? I don’t ever recall that being mentioned in Monpoc? Maybe it’s for the new game, since they’re both ‘destroyers’? Then again, in Monsterpocalypse, you weren’t as beholden to a ‘two teams, no trading’ set up, like you are now. So having martians with Ubercorp (or any other combo), could be played.
They were in league, and part of the same agenda (the collaborators) with Shadow sun industries before, which I always thought was a good pairing. One is a HUGE public facing corporate conglomerate, out to make as much noise as possible. The other is a criminal organization who manipulate governments through money & business (all while dabbling in super-science!). Sort of like if the Mafia, and triad, joined forces with Amazon & Toyota.
It would be kind of fun if they let the faction be chosen on a monster by monster basis. Doesn't seem at all out of place for giant Dinos & apes to be destroyers. Or for martians and giant bugs (who I’m assuming will be destroyers?) to protect people. Though really, I don’t feel like we should be beholden to one side or another, just provide bonuses for working within your faction, like before.
There really wasn’t a bonus before. A small but insignificant penalty that rarely mattered. Most lists were more of a hodgepodge than they are now. I would have preferred to keep the old Agenda wheel and it’s granular allies, but the hard wall works more or less the same outside of dinos and cthul not being buddies (which was frankly weird)
Shadowsun/Ubercorp were between protectors and invaders on the old wheel. The idea was that they were mostly protectors publicly but working with the martians to get access to their technology.
Tempted to buy the few Skorne things I don't own, but will probably pass, as I've now got MonPoc to fund Also bummed that while there are Cryx things I want, they also aren't part of this sale ...
EDIT: Those gargossal prices tho. I already own double Kraken, would make it quadruple except they're capped
I hate seeing all those massive sale prices :(
Really hoping once PP is in their new HQ and with their new CEO they can turn things around once again! If GW can do it PP can do it too darn it!
PP really needs to get back in the game and seriously shore up the loss here. The game needs to be refocused and resold. 67% says it is either cleaning out stock, or trying to get more sales because no one is buying. Either one is not a good reason, and one that the bean-counters are going to be sweating over.
I think the logic of MiniatureMarket sales like this is that when game companies want to clear stock in their warehouses, they move their overflow to MM's (shiny new) warehouse and let them liquidate it. CMON for example has offloaded all of its Wrath of Kings to MM, and the scuttle is that they did the same with Dark Age.
Frankly this sale feels like PP needing to make space for the big move they're doing, which according to their statement has more to do with Seattle's sprawl driving up rent / property taxes than a gradual cascade into financial ruin. There's certainly more things to point at if we want to speculate (again) as to PP's woes and WMH's precipitous decline, but that's not 100% what's behind this sale. (Which I'll complain again doesn't include as much WMH as I'd like, including the darling basher spam I've wanted to do for years. $22 a pop is a no go still :/)
Yeah, Bellevue (where they were at) is a pretty swanky area now. I know Bungie is right there in the heart of it, but I can only imagine how high rent has gotten there. It's right near the Microsoft campus, and I believe Amazon (somewhat?) recently bought a bunch of property around there, so I can only imagine it's expensive for a warehouse, in the middle of all that.
Going 30 minutes north should definitely cut down their costs, but pulls you even further out of Seattle, which kind of sucks for them.
The more I see of Riot Quest, the less it interests me, but i think they're very smart to be making sure all it's components are Warmahordes compatible. I hope it brings in a whole new audience too, as they could use some new folks to play their games.
That sale at MM is seriously amazing though, the Mystery boxes on their site are great as well. I wish I had waited to get the Sea King... $50!!!
The first round last year there's wasn't any variance. I believe the one earlier this year there were occasional changes. More factions should be popping up as people start getting them tomorrow and Saturday.
Got my Mystery Boxes. Trolls, Cyriss and Cryx. My Trolls and Cyriss are the same as others in the imgr link I posted and here's Cryx:
Bane Riders
Defiler Bonejacks
Slayer/Erebus Heavy Warjack x2
Deneghra The Soul Weaver
Overall pretty happy. The Cryx set is cool and doesn't really repeat what I got in the first mysterbox I have from the same faction. Only downside is I got Trolls last time and it's the exact same content so hopefully I'll be able to swap in one of the reddit threads.
On their DevChat stream today, Will and Oz revealed how the narrative campaign will work in Warmachine: Oblivion. It's a branching tree campaign built for 2-4 players to play.
The Oblivion System
Oblivion is how they're referring to this style of campaign system, and it'll be the basis for future leagues and events. Future leagues and events will plug in the 16 scenarios and scenario tree. I'm assuming that this will be a way for them to update fiction as they go as well.
Agendas
Players in the campaign will team up according to two agendas. Guardians and Corruptors. Players of the same agenda never play against each other and in the case of 3 player campaigns they have rules how to split the games.
I think they said they'll have suggestions for who or what will be part of each agenda, but of course that's always going to be open to what you and your players want to play. I would say that some would see this as an opportunity to try another faction to fill a void in a particular storyline. If everyone in your meta is playing boy scouts of some kind then maybe this will be your opportunity to play something evil/chaotic/whatever.
I think you might also want to even out player skill and not team up all newer players.
Oblivion Storyline
The Oblivion Storyline of course introduces the world of Warmachine to the Infernals, but Infernals are not necessary for playing the scenario from what I can tell. The plot described in the stream is that reality seems to be unraveling, tensions are increasing, paranoia is spreading. As players, of course, we realize this is because the Infernals are coming.
Guardian agenda players are trying to enforce order, quell panic, stem the tide of lawlessness. It might seem weird for someone like Cryx to want to do this, but even the Dragonfather has an Empire to run, so if he thinks things are going wrong I can see even him wanting his warcasters to clamp things down. Another way to look at Guardian agenda players is that they're pursuing their faction's interests and those interests are probably counter to the coming of the Infernals in some way shape or form.
Corruptor agenda players are either actively trying to bring about the coming of the Infernals (and may even be an Infernals player themself) or their actions are trying to take advantage of the chaos which only makes the coming of the Infernals even worse.
Campaign Structure
If you look at the mock up of the campaign they showed on stream above, the campaign has 5 stages which are intended to be played out over 4-5 sessions. Each circle on the tree represents a scenario unique to the campaign.
Tier 1 of the campaign is the the bottom three scenarios. They called this the Prologue. The reason why each player can play all three in a weekend is that they are smaller battles, like a warmup to the campaign games ahead.
Tiers 2-4 are the branching scenarios. The campaign doesn't advance from tier 2 to 3, 3 to 4, or 4 to 5 until each player plays what they're calling their protagonist game.
Tier 5 is the final battle, 100 points split between the 2 players on your team.
Active Scenario, Protagonists and Antagonists
So each week/tier of the campaign a player has to play one Active Scenario in which they are the protagonist. The scenario played is indicated on the tree for guardian or corrupter. For example in Tier 2, the Guardian Player plays A War for Peace and the Corrupter player plays Fuel for the Fire.
Victory means that no matter what happens the rest of that tier, the Guardian player's next active scenario in Tier 3 will be Seeds of Hope. Defeat will mean Sanguine Trail.
Players on the same agenda CAN BE following different trees. Two Guardian players could be going down differing paths of victory or defeat.
If they're the protagonist and their actions determine the tree, then what's the incentive to play as antagonists? Omen Cards.
Antagonists and Omen Cards
Same agendas can't play against each other, so the antagonist of the active scenarios will always be someone playing for the other side.
When antagonists win an active scenario, not only does the protagonist player advance down the Defeat track on his scenario tree, but the antagonist gets 1-2 draws from the Omen Deck.
The Omen Deck is one of the other things you're paying for in the campaign box. They have various effects and up to 3 cards can be played for a match.
So both protagonists and antagonists have incentives for winning. Presumably there are advantages to protagonist scenario victories. It also seems like you want to win scenarios to deny your antagonists the omen cards.
Interesting that someone got Cryx in their mystery box as that means they must be sending out more than four factions , posters in Reddit had received trollbloods, orboros, CoC and Cygnar.
With Oblivion there's a new rulebook that combines Hordes and Warmachine into one. It updates how theme lists work (bonus points are now given based off of the point total in the game, not what type of models you have), removed some rules (there was a joke about elevation rules being gone) that felt redundant or not used much.
Also a new game was announced: Warcasters
Jist of it is a game set 5k years in the future of the setting where Cyriss teaches the iron kingdoms space travel to escape the infernals. It's a smaller wargame where you customize your warcaster and jacks. Completely new ruleset.
The videos for both haven't been uploaded to youtube, if I notice them today I'll add them.
Also a new game was announced: Warcasters
Jist of it is a game set 5k years in the future of the setting where Cyriss teaches the iron kingdoms space travel to escape the infernals. It's a smaller wargame where you customize your warcaster and jacks. Completely new ruleset.
Warmachine 5,000... I, for one, am shocked. Shocked, I say.
Lots of stuff I"m excited for. Oblivion looks like an interesting system and the theme/rule changes all sound great. WM5K has a lot of potential but too early to tell. A new line coming in standard on their current model quality is really compelling though and it sounds like its going to take a lot of lessons learned from WM's struggle with the core appeal of the battlegroup not really applying to the game as a whole. The Infernal recap reminded me how much I love the setting as a whole; I just wish they could do more with the fluff.
MonPoc looked great. Little sad my boy Gakura is looking to be left behind (particularly since Kondo is more of a unit monster than I'd like) but I'm glad to see Matt Wilson finally gets his 50 ft woman faction. I remember him selling that as a concept for the 3rd wave of factions that never happened. The game seems to be maturing quickly and filling up with a good selection of favorites.
Even Riot Quest looked rather fun. Still not exactly sold on it as a whole and I'm more than a little worried they're writing the existing WM setting into a dead end after Oblivion, but I'm starting to get sold on the idea. I feel like compared to Underworlds and Aresteia its got a better tone to be a side game.
This was a pretty good keynote, imo. New mini-crate line based on Robert E. Howard stuff. Conan and Solomon Kane minis both shown. It's not my jam, but the whole mini-crate system must be doing well if they're expanding into another different IP.
MonPoc stuff looked good. I haven't jumped into it yet as I was waiting on the Apes, but now I think I'm going with the robo-dinos.
Riot Quest looked better than it did last year. Now that we know more about the game, I think it has potential.
The Warmachine stuff fell a little flat because a lot of the stuff from Oblivion was already known if you've been following what PP has been doing the past couple of months. The things like theme force and core rule changes were rumored as well, though specifics were not known until now, and they're still largely unknown. I think hype, if there is any to be had, will start to build as more of these specifics get out. They also heavily hint at extra involvement from Cyriss at the end of the video which sounds great to me.
And then there's Warcaster: Neo Mechanika. Dumb name, but it fulfills a long time wish from the community of customizable warcasters. It's too early to really tell if it'll actually be any good, but I definitely want to hear more.
oomiestompa wrote: This was a pretty good keynote, imo. New mini-crate line based on Robert E. Howard stuff. Conan and Solomon Kane minis both shown. It's not my jam, but the whole mini-crate system must be doing well if they're expanding into another different IP.
Don't really get this one, as there's no shortage of minis from these properties out there. Hell, Mythic Games has a Solomon Kane board game kickstarter coming next year that has about a bajillion Solomon Kane miniatures in it. I love Robert E. Howard's work, and maybe if they spread further out to some of his less famous characters (they did mention a few during the keynote) there's potential, but I'm not sure there's a market for more Conan and Solomon Kane.
MonPoc stuff looked good. I haven't jumped into it yet as I was waiting on the Apes, but now I think I'm going with the robo-dinos.
Uber Corp isn't just robot dinos. It's an even corporation that is making robotic versions of the other factions. So there are a few Terrasaur units in there, but also some Planet Eaters (the second monster) and Shadow Sun Syndicate (the shinobots). The gen 1 series also had a robo-ape and robo-cthulhu. Just thought I'd point it out so you don't get disappointed when later models are distinctly not robo-dinos.
Riot Quest looked better than it did last year. Now that we know more about the game, I think it has potential.
My opinion on Riot Quest has gone from derisive laughter to indifference to mostly indifferent. I really like Underworlds and Aristeia, and it looks like PP is trying to push out content faster than both (30 models in the first year, I think they said), but I don't know. Just a big eh (though it is an improvement of meh and Nelson-style ha-ha). I really like Monsterpocalypse though, so maybe PP can pull out a win here.
And then there's Warcaster: Neo Mechanika. Dumb name, but it fulfills a long time wish from the community of customizable warcasters. It's too early to really tell if it'll actually be any good, but I definitely want to hear more.
Please let them make it so that this game doesn't look like people doing their math homework, with a flat field filled with various circles, rings and rectangles,with tons of tokens... there is not an uglier game-in-progress than Warmachine. A new game means they can leave some of the baggage behind and create a cleaner game with better (non-PVC) models. And it sounds like they are focusing, FINALLY, on just the warcasters and jacks (though I'm sure it'll be nothing but 120 infantry models two years later).
... Hmm. I guess I still have a lot of resentment towards Warmachine. I do like MonPoc though...
Just watched through all of their stuff on youtube.
I like that Oblivion is sort of a campaign now. I still wish they'd just bring back the Orgoth, but, whatever. The infernals are neat, and I like that they've done an overhaul on MK3, and put it all in one book. Makes an easy place to start for new and returning players. The campaign as a whole doesn't really get me pumped enough to play again, but I think it's a good move for them, none the less.
Riot Quest has another vid. Like others, I'm still not really stoked to play this (just not really interesting me in regards to gameplay, miniatures, and style), but again, hopefully it will bring new folks into the fold. I have to say though. If this is targeted at a younger demographic (ie ages 12-25) the video needs to be about 1 to 2 minutes shorter, quicker cuts, in general, get information out as quickly as possible. The humor I think is on point, but it needs that 'faster paced' delivery. Also, not sure if they're just using someone in the company for free, but, they need to spring for a better VO actor(s). Though they have more range than 90% of YouTubers, they just aren't coming across as being actual pros. The graphics and structures of the videos are good, but some better actors (and in the case of riot quest, pacing) would help make these look much more professional. Just my 2 focus.
I'm liking the new minicrate stuff they have coming out. I'm still not sold on the Lot5R, but I'm hoping it's doing well. The R.E. Howard stuff is a little baffling to me too, but, I'm guessing there's an audience for it. I would really love it if they did a New monpoc game themed minicrate (monstercrate?). Where they could have 1 off types of monsters for either (or both) of the 2 factions. Make it $50 and include some special units for each, and that would be AMAZING!1!! An easy one would be to make some 'neutral' type units, like Monsterpocalypse had, like Fire trucks, and what not.
Ah, and the new monpoc game. Glad to see they're finally doing a Giant woman (kind of like it better as a one off compared to a whole faction),don't really get the army helmet though? The Green Fury were a bunch of hippies in Monsterpocalypse, not soldiers? Maybe she works for G.U.A.R.D.?
Oh well, cool to see something that wasn't for Monsterpocalypse in the new game.
I REALLY wish they'd just make Minicrate like Forgeworld - a boutique line that wasn't limited to an insane 1 month limit. Because that Robert Howard stuff looks great and there's a couple of the warmachine/hordes ones that I want too. It drives me nuts that I have to remember it exists to try and get 1 or 2 that I want.
Yeah, I've missed out on a few models from the Minicrate line that I really wanted.
The limited exclusivity is stupid. Make it a once a year period or something, or change up the model slightly and offer it back up again. Make it online only or available during events. Regardless I'm sure there's a market for these outside of the narrow window they're available.
That said I gotta remember to get the Crab Clan guy. Big dudes wielding giant metal clubs are awesome. Might have to take a look at the Lion guy as well depending on the sculpt.
Solomon Kane looked on point too, especially since I passed on the Mythic board game.
Not sure why they haven't done an alt Fell Caller yet. Hate the old sculpt. Plus I've always wanted a female one. Maybe the beer troll may be a good stand in.
Some of this looks great - Monsterpocalypse continues to hold my interest (despite me not actually playing it).
And I like that they are branching out with the Iron Kingdoms some more (though no real interest in RiotQuest from me - but maybe this new one). I feel like Company of Iron has been all but forgotten - which is sad. I wish they would relaunch it - but make it more like WH:Underworlds - with unique warbands from each faction - toss out the rules (which got so bloated, so quickly), toss out the using the same cards as WM (which jettisoned it's cards) and toss out using terrible PP plastic models or 15 year old metals and I'd be totes down for that game again.
Streamlining WM/H rules some more sounds great. Was disappointed with how much clunkiness was left in MKIII. Hopefully that's a step in the right direction.
Bleh on more minicrate stuff. Screw forced scarcity.
And I really miss Warmachine fluff. This Infernal invasion is sounding cool - I wish I could still get NQ and read about it.
The reason they won't release MiniCrate models any other way, is because it's to entice you to just subscribe. That way you won't forget about the few models you actually want, and PP has a monthly income stream.
I would guess that is successful enough, we'll start seeing more IP's being used for separate monthly crates.
It's obviously brought them enough of an income that they've branched out into two more and I'd be willing to bet more are coming.
Ghool wrote: The reason they won't release MiniCrate models any other way, is because it's to entice you to just subscribe. That way you won't forget about the few models you actually want, and PP has a monthly income stream.
I would guess that is successful enough, we'll start seeing more IP's being used for separate monthly crates.
It's obviously brought them enough of an income that they've branched out into two more and I'd be willing to bet more are coming.
It's also a direct sales model that doesn't require keeping an ever growing inventory which is their biggest issue overall. I think it also helps retain sculpting talent as it gives them a means of regularly having creative work that doesn't have to adhere to the existing designs. I get the impression that Riot Quest is driven by a lot of the same needs.
Ghool wrote: The reason they won't release MiniCrate models any other way, is because it's to entice you to just subscribe. That way you won't forget about the few models you actually want, and PP has a monthly income stream.
I would guess that is successful enough, we'll start seeing more IP's being used for separate monthly crates.
It's obviously brought them enough of an income that they've branched out into two more and I'd be willing to bet more are coming.
It's also a direct sales model that doesn't require keeping an ever growing inventory which is their biggest issue overall. I think it also helps retain sculpting talent as it gives them a means of regularly having creative work that doesn't have to adhere to the existing designs. I get the impression that Riot Quest is driven by a lot of the same needs.
That's probably the main reason. And it allows for model updates without adding excess inventory.
I personally think that this is the model they should have adopted a long time ago. While I don't need a model a.month myself, MiniCrate is a great concept that has likely added some financial stability for PP.
Ghool wrote: The reason they won't release MiniCrate models any other way, is because it's to entice you to just subscribe. That way you won't forget about the few models you actually want, and PP has a monthly income stream.
I would guess that is successful enough, we'll start seeing more IP's being used for separate monthly crates.
It's obviously brought them enough of an income that they've branched out into two more and I'd be willing to bet more are coming.
It's also a direct sales model that doesn't require keeping an ever growing inventory which is their biggest issue overall. I think it also helps retain sculpting talent as it gives them a means of regularly having creative work that doesn't have to adhere to the existing designs. I get the impression that Riot Quest is driven by a lot of the same needs.
That's probably the main reason. And it allows for model updates without adding excess inventory.
I personally think that this is the model they should have adopted a long time ago. While I don't need a model a.month myself, MiniCrate is a great concept that has likely added some financial stability for PP.
Earlier this year, ran into a local who use to work for PP and maintains contact with a number of people in the company. He mentioned MiniCrate at the time was PP's largest revenue stream. Larger than WMH, but MonPoc hadn't launched yet. Either it is a huge success for PP or shows just how dire the state of WMH is.
The problem is minicrate must be trading on mostly Warmachine fans, so if its outselling Warmachine its showing some serious stagnation in that market. Both in terms of existing fans not buying into models and in terms of not recruiting new fans in any good numbers.
It's a bit like if Forgeworld was GW's biggest earner. Sure its great in terms of boutique models, but its a rather dire situation in terms of the core business model failing. It also leaves them in a very precarious situation - a bad run of a few minicrates that aren't super popular or just a maturing of their market and they'd fast bleed customers with having less chance to recruit more into "minicrate" alone.
Hopefully their new CEO and a big edition update and infernals will get things improving agian. PP dropping a lot of their Press Gangers, forums and magazine all in one big brutal go really hit their outreach potential hard at a time when GW launched into outreach in a colossal way.
Remember that privateer has to sell 60-80% off MSRP to distributers depending on how much volume they sell so minicrate where there's no middleman is of course bring in some good revenue.
The only part of Warcaster I don't like at the moment as it spoils the end of Warmachine. Infernals pop up, the COG make portals and humans leave the planet to escape Infernals.
Not really. Could be like riot quest which they've stated is an alternate reality where Internals won. Could be the main timeline is only some leave, could be none leave.
Monkeysloth wrote: Remember that privateer has to sell 60-80% off MSRP to distributers depending on how much volume they sell so minicrate where there's no middleman is of course bring in some good revenue.
True, I forget that GW gets to sell direct whilst Warmachine sells more through 3rd parties with smaller profit margines on each sale. That said they likely only make 1 minicrate sale per customer on average. So in theory a customer might buy 1 minicrate a month, but should also (if they are gaming with PP stuff) be getting troops, warbeasts/warcasters as well. If they aren't then either PP isn't generating interest; or they are running with an "old guard" userbase for their core games. That's ok for a while but in time it means fewer new customers and stagnation of that market which means a continually dwindling core customer base. Which would sort of fit with their current pattern of falling to one side a bit.
I think PP needs to take a bit leaf out of current GW practice and boost their exposure and marketing into the next level. They need to retake their "second biggest in the market" title.
I don’t think it’ll ever happen. They hit That point the first time when they were able to capitalize on a growing anti-GW feeling in a period where there weren’t as many side games. Now the market is filling with more and more miniature games, and GW’s public image has been improving with the new ceo.
Yeah, I was a very avid player when they were getting big, and I think that they did a fantastic job (and/or were lucky) capitalizing on GW's failures at the time, but GW is being managed well these days, and a ton of other games are out.
Monkeysloth wrote: Remember that privateer has to sell 60-80% off MSRP to distributers depending on how much volume they sell so minicrate where there's no middleman is of course bring in some good revenue.
True, I forget that GW gets to sell direct whilst Warmachine sells more through 3rd parties with smaller profit margines on each sale. That said they likely only make 1 minicrate sale per customer on average. So in theory a customer might buy 1 minicrate a month, but should also (if they are gaming with PP stuff) be getting troops, warbeasts/warcasters as well. If they aren't then either PP isn't generating interest; or they are running with an "old guard" userbase for their core games. That's ok for a while but in time it means fewer new customers and stagnation of that market which means a continually dwindling core customer base. Which would sort of fit with their current pattern of falling to one side a bit.
I think PP needs to take a bit leaf out of current GW practice and boost their exposure and marketing into the next level. They need to retake their "second biggest in the market" title.
If you're not a new person how many models does PP release in a year for a given theme/army list? I would guess your average player has what 2? Maybe three themes they play with and Privateer lately seams more focused on doing mini updates to themes (like buccaneers recently) then trying to get something out for all factions every month. The minicrate guarantees monthly income from a player as their normal release cycle just can't handle releasing something for everyone every month (not to mention SKU bloat) so I'm not sure how easy it is to correlate the minicreate sales vs continued sales to veteran players or even newish players. Though I don't think there's many that would disagree that they have an issue with new blood.
Hello! There was some interesting rules tidbits dropped by Oz and Faye, one of the developers and playtest coordinator, during the Lock and Load stream today. For those unaware, here's a brief rundown.
The Oblivion boxset releases in September - it will prerelease in August at GenCon. It contains the updated rule book, the Oblivion campaign book (Which is also like the old Command Books - it'll have the Infernal lore, the Archons, the Order of Illumination, etc.), and the Hermit of Hengehold Model
It will contain an updated rule book that streamlines the game in several regards: Elevation bonus from terrain (+2 Def against ranged attacks) is going away, gunfighter is getting streamlined, Warbeast Packs are going away (Repitle Hound and Blight Wasps - they'll be reclassified as Lesser Warbeasts and changed a bit, so they'll still be legal models.) and others.
Theme lists are getting changed. You will no longer earn free solos/models per 20/25 points you spend on qualifying units. Instead, per game size, you will earn 1-3 'Requisition Points' that can be spent on bonuses, such as 1 Requisition Point for 3 Gallows Groves models in Circle. 25 point game earns 1 point, 50 earns 2, 75 earns 3. In short, if you play Gravediggers at 75 points, you automatically get three Requisition Points, and do not have to play 60 points of specific Trencher models, so there's a lot more freedom in list building. If you like the bonuses from a theme, like +1 to go first but it's a battlegroup theme, you're no longer penalized by taking infantry models.
To go along with this, some theme lists are getting combined since they fill similar niches.
So, here's a small roundup of the information I've seen and heard from the stream today;
Cryx: Infernal Machines theme list and Black Industries theme list are getting combined. No idea what the new bonuses will be, but I would suspect Carapace gets cut since Brute Thralls have shield guard built into them.
Skorne: Disciples of Agony opened to every Warlock
Skorne: Winds of Death and Imperial Warhost are becoming one theme NOTE: This is a hard MAYBE. They're 90% sure but don't have the documents in front of them to double check. It was revealed as a response to Twitch Chat asking for spoilers.
Circle: Based on the Keynote Video (Oblivion, now on Youtube), Call of the Wild and Wild Hunt are becoming one theme. William Hungerford on stage said Secret Masters and Call of the Wild, but I would be willing to bet it's the page view in the video - though I could be wrong.
Circle: Requisition points for the new theme force discussed above can be spent on the following at the ratio of 1 Requisition Point to 1 of the Free Items listed below:
1 Free Command Attachment
Two Blackclad Stone Shaper Solos
Three Gallows Grove Solos
One Small or Medium based Solo
Grymkin: Dark Menagerie Theme Force will have, as an option for 1 Requisition Point: (The other options are unknown at this time.)
2 Gremlin Swarm Solos (Per Point)
General: Shooting into melee no longer randomizes targets if you miss. If you shoot an engaged model, it still gets the +4 to DEF bonus, but you don't have to worry about shooting your own model on accident.
General: There will be an update to War Room to allow a 'Toggle' for list building between the new theme forces and rules and the old ones during GenCon, the first week of August, when Oblivion is prereleased. After September, when Oblivion is released, this toggle will be removed and you can ONLY build theme forces with the new Requisition point system. This was done to accommodate TOs of major tournaments, such as the WTC which will happen shortly after GenCon.
As always, any and everything is subject to change prior to release, this is just what I've seen and heard them mention. I do want to point out that I find it unlikely we will see any of these in the CID forums in any capacity since it's currently Lock and Load, and these will prerelease at GenCon which is August 1st through 4th. I, personally, can't wait for the new system. It will make some old Mercenary unit/solo choices actually viable again in my three factions - Retribution, Cryx, and Crucible Guard.
I heard a rumor that distributors dropped Warmachine/Hordes and that is why they are going to direct sales. This is a really bad sign. Apparently, distributors couldn't move inventory because stores weren't ordering it. This is my experience at my store where sales have dropped to nothing. I think they will be out of business soon or relegated to a boutique miniatures company like Kingdom Death that does all direct sales.
It would have to be selling really bad for the distributors to drop it 100%. Probably wanted a further discount on the price they buy it from PP as things that sell better distributors are willing to buy for more and PP didn't want to/couldn't.
Can't blame them, the distributor model is cancer on the gaming community and needs to die. Forcing game companies to sell them stuff at 60-70% off MSRP and then selling it to game stores at 20-30% MSRP is the main cause for such a small operating budget many companies and stores have. With the internet there's no need for such an outdated model.
Distributors sell to brick and mortar stores at 40-45% off. We need distributors because no brick and mortar can afford to stock everything they need and go direct. In particular, miniatures game companies need brick and mortars because that is where people find out/ discover miniatures games in the first place. The internet is a great tool, but it's not the answer to everything, at least until miniatures companies can afford to make virtual realities where you can meet up with people and play games. Even then, some people will prefer to play with actual miniatures that they painted themselves for the same reason that some people prefer actual books over Kindles and books on audio.
Smellingsalts wrote: Distributors sell to brick and mortar stores at 40-45% off. We need distributors because no brick and mortar can afford to stock everything they need and go direct. In particular, miniatures game companies need brick and mortars because that is where people find out/ discover miniatures games in the first place. The internet is a great tool, but it's not the answer to everything, at least until miniatures companies can afford to make virtual realities where you can meet up with people and play games. Even then, some people will prefer to play with actual miniatures that they painted themselves for the same reason that some people prefer actual books over Kindles and books on audio.
Also, distributors serve a purpose for the manufacturers as well, since typically a company will only need to sell to, and manage accounts, packing, shipping, etc., for less than a dozen different entities. Trying to do self-distribution means account management for literally thousands of customers, which if you're not set up for is a huge task.
Distributors also help companies do larger production runs by eating a good chunk of extra stock in the supply chain. This in turn reduces the cost of production, which ends up making things like plastic a workable material where most of the cost is up front.
That's the big issue with the discounted online shops, which are, essentially, distributors making direct sales. They devalue the product itself so that retailers can't sell it at a profitable price. 100% markup sounds ludicrous to consumers, but its actually makes for an incredibly small profitable window for products that aren't sold in large quantities.
Distributors have been cutting retail out of the chain for a bit, which leads to stores dropping out when they can't compete, which over time dries up new customers. Sounds bad, but distributors don't really have a stake in any one product line and can pretty easily just pick up something else to fill the void. It's mostly bad for players and companies loyal to a specific product, which is why companies start working to enforce things like the MAPs that we see and customers rail against as price fixing.
Its all economy of scale, where volume makes things cheaper. In some ways, all of GW's online sale policies that earned them so much ire years ago were just ahead of the curve. PP seems to be suffering pretty hard for their complacency and everyone is taking a pretty hard PR hit trying to put the genie back in the bottle.
Smellingsalts wrote: I heard a rumor that distributors dropped Warmachine/Hordes and that is why they are going to direct sales. This is a really bad sign. Apparently, distributors couldn't move inventory because stores weren't ordering it. This is my experience at my store where sales have dropped to nothing. I think they will be out of business soon or relegated to a boutique miniatures company like Kingdom Death that does all direct sales.
Well, most shops around here that get listed in Store Finders have just enough product (if that) to qualify for the listing. I stopped in a general hobby store last week because I spotted a GW sign in the window, and found them on the store finder. They had... a paint stand with about 20 paints, and maybe thirty boxed sets (including an old copy of Execution Force). Most of the other shops in the area (a 30-40 mile radius) have more stock, but not a great deal. It isn't like the old days where most FLGS would have a fairly complete range of multiple games. It just isn't worth it to tie up so much money in inventory.... which of course also means it isn't worth a customers time to come in.
For PP, they screwed up early on and went really SKU heavy, with a box and 2 blisters required for most infantry squads- that ate a lot of shelf space and soured feelings with local game stores. They've since corrected it, but the game model (and meta) means they have a lot of 'lesser' units that just don't sell, so there isn't any reason to stock them. These days, a big catalog is often a problem (and not a healthy game), at least as far as stores are concerned.
Smellingsalts wrote: We need distributors because no brick and mortar can afford to stock everything they need and go direct. In particular, miniatures game companies need brick and mortars because that is where people find out/ discover miniatures games in the first place.
There could be alternatives to this but the Distributors have anti-consumer practices that see them buying exclusive rights to game lines and offering additional discounts to game stores not to order from anywhere else. I'm sure european CMoN fans are so happy that Asmodee has exclusive rights as it does such a bang up job. They're doing whatever they can to keep competition down and choice limited and service horrible. There's about 6 game stores within less then a 30 min drive from my house that deal in wargames that aren't just GW. All have the same distributor with the same selection and the same polices. 2-4 weeks to get something in store even if it's listed in stock. Prices for some items from the distributor are the same as buying direct from the manufacturer and when I suggest making an account with said manufacturer to get items cheaper i get told the same thing that their contracts don't allow for that (or the few owners I talked too all lied just to not have to deal with the hassle). I seriously had a order that I wanted to make that was twice the MSRP because the distributor was selling for the same price as listed in the manufacturer's store. They checked and that was the correct price from the distributor so I ordered from gamenerdz for 60% difference in price from what the local store was offering obviously the price markup was on the store, but still. I've pretty much given up on local stores as I can get what I want online faster and generally cheaper as even though there's "choice" between the different store owners they all seam like just an extension of the same distributor with the only difference between them being the name. And the way a few of the owners use to talk about their distributors you think they were the mafia. Maybe things have gotten better in the two years since I stopped shopping locally but I doubt it.
LunarSol wrote: Distributors also help companies do larger production runs by eating a good chunk of extra stock in the supply chain. This in turn reduces the cost of production, which ends up making things like plastic a workable material where most of the cost is up front.
That's the big issue with the discounted online shops, which are, essentially, distributors making direct sales. They devalue the product itself so that retailers can't sell it at a profitable price. 100% markup sounds ludicrous to consumers, but its actually makes for an incredibly small profitable window for products that aren't sold in large quantities.
I understand the economics of it and why distributors exist. But that 20% markup hurts that margin on both sides. I've been at gencon and seen new companies pretty much admit defeat there as none of the distributors would pick up the line for less then an 80% discount which wasn't sustainable for the company. Some of them are still around by just using social media to build up sales, most aren't. That combined with KSer shows that you can have a successful line without following the standard model.
Distributors have been cutting retail out of the chain for a bit, which leads to stores dropping out when they can't compete, which over time dries up new customers. Sounds bad, but distributors don't really have a stake in any one product line and can pretty easily just pick up something else to fill the void. It's mostly bad for players and companies loyal to a specific product, which is why companies start working to enforce things like the MAPs that we see and customers rail against as price fixing.
Its all economy of scale, where volume makes things cheaper. In some ways, all of GW's online sale policies that earned them so much ire years ago were just ahead of the curve. PP seems to be suffering pretty hard for their complacency and everyone is taking a pretty hard PR hit trying to put the genie back in the bottle.
I think this just exposed more how overpriced the hobby actually is. Yes a lot of that is due to how niche of a market it is but there's also just a huge glut of product competing so sales are getting more and more spread out amongst the miniature companies. I think this is why you're seeing a rush for small skirmish games again.
LunarSol wrote: Distributors also help companies do larger production runs by eating a good chunk of extra stock in the supply chain. This in turn reduces the cost of production, which ends up making things like plastic a workable material where most of the cost is up front.
That's the big issue with the discounted online shops, which are, essentially, distributors making direct sales. They devalue the product itself so that retailers can't sell it at a profitable price. 100% markup sounds ludicrous to consumers, but its actually makes for an incredibly small profitable window for products that aren't sold in large quantities.
I understand the economics of it and why distributors exist. But that 20% markup hurts that margin on both sides. I've been at gencon and seen new companies pretty much admit defeat there as none of the distributors would pick up the line for less then an 80% discount which wasn't sustainable for the company. Some of them are still around by just using social media to build up sales, most aren't. That combined with KSer shows that you can have a successful line without following the standard model.
Distributors have been cutting retail out of the chain for a bit, which leads to stores dropping out when they can't compete, which over time dries up new customers. Sounds bad, but distributors don't really have a stake in any one product line and can pretty easily just pick up something else to fill the void. It's mostly bad for players and companies loyal to a specific product, which is why companies start working to enforce things like the MAPs that we see and customers rail against as price fixing.
Its all economy of scale, where volume makes things cheaper. In some ways, all of GW's online sale policies that earned them so much ire years ago were just ahead of the curve. PP seems to be suffering pretty hard for their complacency and everyone is taking a pretty hard PR hit trying to put the genie back in the bottle.
I think this just exposed more how overpriced the hobby actually is. Yes a lot of that is due to how niche of a market it is but there's also just a huge glut of product competing so sales are getting more and more spread out amongst the miniature companies. I think this is why you're seeing a rush for small skirmish games again.
It depends on the material and type of product you're making. Part of the reason we're seeing so many companies push direct sales from their website is simply because resin is a great on demand material, but the machine time is slow enough that its not great for mass distribution. It's possible the get enough machines to get to large scale production, but there's more enticing materials for that and comes with a lot of risk.
The hobby really isn't all that overpriced, honestly, it just has high production costs because its sold in relatively low volumes. Most everything you buy sees similar markups at distributor and retail levels and similar fights with direct distribution and distributors selling at discounts (check out game prices on Steam and Amazon's constant attempts to subvert MAPs for video games). The difference is we've all been pretty spoiled by huge scale markets driving production costs of most things into the floor. Anything that's able to get shelf space at Wal-Mart/Target/etc has a built in sales volume that lets it order in quantities that put the price per item down to pennies. At that point, you can sell it at 1000% markup and distributors can triple that and still sell it in stores for something like $5. The hobby market has similar initial costs, they just can't guarantee anything approaching the kind of sales Wal-Mart promises, so the cost per item is still really high and that translates into really high prices for the consumer the same as any other niche product. A good example is the Knight kits, honestly. They're extremely overpriced compared to a Gunpla, but GW isn't selling hundreds of millions of them each year either.
Sorry, was typing between things at work and didn't do a full review of what I said. The overpriced comment was around the amount of things games require you to buy, ie the battle scale, which is why you're seeing smaller sized games that require less investments. Once the discounts ended and people saw the real price of some games it became hard to swallow. I think game companies realize the large skirmish games like warmahords and infinity are too big for a lot of people to invest in as you just can't drop $100 anymore and have a playable list.
When talking about price, miniature gaming has always been expensive. At the risk of sounding like a snob, miniature gaming is similar to auto collecting or polo playing. Not everyone can afford it, It will never be the type of thing the "masses" can afford, and to rail about the price does no good. If it is too expensive, maybe it's not for you (and I mean "you" in a figure of speech way, not as an insult,, I don't know any of you personally). Or rather, maybe some types. Wizkids is doing a great job making D&D miniatures that are affordable.
Monkeysloth wrote: Sorry, was typing between things at work and didn't do a full review of what I said. The overpriced comment was around the amount of things games require you to buy, ie the battle scale, which is why you're seeing smaller sized games that require less investments. Once the discounts ended and people saw the real price of some games it became hard to swallow. I think game companies realize the large skirmish games like warmahords and infinity are too big for a lot of people to invest in as you just can't drop $100 anymore and have a playable list.
Makes sense. I find Infinity pretty affordable overall, but it would be nice if it played closer to the army in the box sets that make it fairly cheap to get started in. Warmachine is definitely on the upper end these days alongside the GW stuff though.
Smellingsalts wrote: When talking about price, miniature gaming has always been expensive. At the risk of sounding like a snob, miniature gaming is similar to auto collecting or polo playing. Not everyone can afford it, It will never be the type of thing the "masses" can afford, and to rail about the price does no good. If it is too expensive, maybe it's not for you (and I mean "you" in a figure of speech way, not as an insult,, I don't know any of you personally). Or rather, maybe some types. Wizkids is doing a great job making D&D miniatures that are affordable.
Well unless you are getting every kit that comes out I don't see how it could get THAT expensive!
. I picked up the GUARD starter set and Terra Khan, both to have fun painting at least. The starter set was missing all 4 tanks 
, but had the repair truck at least. I can’t say much about the quality of the models though as all had bad mold slippage and the spots for gates were poorly chosen causing loss of details or bad fits. There was also a bubble in the arm of defender X, but not terribly bad that it cannot be fixed.
Also bummed that while there are Cryx things I want, they also aren't part of this sale ...
