Hi there!


An opinion of yours concerning a few points:


- do drones on the Coldstar Commander make any sense? They only move 10" after all and are left behind quickly...or am I wrong?

- when distributing shots to e.g. a crisis unit with added drones (any kind) may I now choose to have the drones take the hits before one of the crisis does? In melee, too?

- how many markerlights do you propose to add in a list? Is there some formula regarding the number of shooting units in your list? Thought about adding around 16 (assuming approx. 25% of those have no target and from the remaining 12 only 8 "hit" on average).

- use broadsides rather in single units to avoid damage spill over OR use them together in one unit to benefit more from invocations?

- any reason NOT to take the named character ethereals instead of the basic ethereal? Except for the hover disc for better movement?

- would you add marker drones to a breacher team which is being transported by a devilfish to secure some objective? After all, they cannot use the markerlight in the turn they disembark, correct?


Thank you!

Cheers,
Amaurosis

Hi Amaurosis,

1) Yes, the Coldstar does have more movement than the drones and so you would have to move at the speed of the attached drones. However, in situations where you cannot hide, you may want to sacrifice the speed of your Coldstar for some ablative wounds, certainly during the early game where the enemy will most likely have their most powerful guns still alive. You can then detach the drones if they are still alive and make use of your speed in the later turns.

2) Yes, attached drones are eligible to be selected to be allocated hits/wounds. The normal rules for allocating wounds apply, so if a model has already taken a wound, then you must keep allocating to it until it is dead. As such, you'll want to put wounds on drones first, or make use of the saviour protocols strat to negate damage which gets through your Crisis saves.

3) 16 sounds like a lot. Even with only 8 hitting, do you have 8 other units to shoot with to actually make use of them? It really depends on your list with regards to how many lights you need.

4) Multiple in one unit, to be efficient with invocations, markerlights and ablative wounds. A unit with a single broadside can have 4 ablative wounds from shield drones, a unit with 2 can have 8, a unit of 3 can have 12. Until those ablative wounds are gone, the enemy cannot harm your Broadsides and so cannot reduce the firepower you put out. With separate units, it is a lot easier for them to get through the shield drones and start to hurt the broadsides behind. Also, you're unlikely to have the points for maxed out shield drones on all your broadsides, so you'd either have to spread out the drones, or have some naked broadsides, which are easy pickings for lascannon and the like.

5) Points.

6) I personally wouldn't as adding drones makes your troop infantry squads vulnerable to blasts. Better to stick those drones on other units or take a unit of them on their own.

Thank you, A Town Called Malus!

You brought up some aspects, which surely convince. Have to make some changes to my first list. ^^


At first I wanted to get breacher teams on the objectives. Then I realized that the strike teams have 2 shots at range 18" (whereas breacher only at 14") with the exactley same stats as well.

So, unless playing Bork'an (+4" range) I cannot see the benefit of a breacher team anymore. Or do I miss something?

It seems to me, that the strike team is more versatile than the breacher.

The only positive I see is breacher's strategem (reroll to wound) and a possible advance move, but I am unsure whether advancing is a real matter for me if I want to drop them by devilfish.

You don't bring Breachers for their 14" range, because then yes your probably better off with Strike Teams.

You bring Breachers for the str 6 -2ap at 8"

What are the odds that normal Crisis suits being able to take 4 hard points is a typo and they will go back to 3 in the errata?

Given that support systems match across all the datasheets with the exception of the Bodyguards, the question of what is a typo isn't the regular Crisis team.

So I'm looking at my FSE and just wondering why I wouldn't take 2 units of 5 gun drones for 40pts each. Drop them in from manta strike, close to a drone controller unit and they will be hitting on 3s (at a unit within 12"). If in Mont'ka and is the closest unit, that's 20 S5 AP-1 shots hitting on 3's, rerolling 1 failed wound roll.
Of course, I may be using those beacons for Turn 1 crisis suit assaults, but if not, might as well drop in such a cheap unit. Seems they can do some decent work at short range in FSE detachments.

 bullyboy wrote:
So I'm looking at my FSE and just wondering why I wouldn't take 2 units of 5 gun drones for 40pts each. Drop them in from manta strike, close to a drone controller unit and they will be hitting on 3s (at a unit within 12"). If in Mont'ka and is the closest unit, that's 20 S5 AP-1 shots hitting on 3's, rerolling 1 failed wound roll.
Of course, I may be using those beacons for Turn 1 crisis suit assaults, but if not, might as well drop in such a cheap unit. Seems they can do some decent work at short range in FSE detachments.

gun drones in general are basically the cheapest firepower in the entire codex.
I would not be surprised at all if someone manages to take a tournament with a list that is mostly drones, Ghostkeels (for the drone controller) and some assorted support pieces.

The thing that would hold back drone spam is their targeting restrictions. Each drone controller can only affect one unit a turn, so the rest who are not under the effect can only shoot at the closest eligible unit.

But yes, 8 points for 2 pulse carbines is nice.

Big flaw in my thoughts... Drone Control happens in Command phase so doesn't help units dropping in from Manta.

I am trying to decide on a build for a commander with the prototype burst cannon. I am thinking Bor'kan for my sept, so I am mostly trying to decide if I should go with the Bor'kan warlord trait, which would want to go with higher shot weapons, or go with the re-rolls generic warlord trait which would really boost the weapons with more natural oomph....

Though the thought of running a 16' range flamer that gets -1 ap and mortals on 6's to wound has a certain YOLO appeal, so I might lean that way.

I mean, Coldstar with HOBC and prototype BC is putting out a ton of shots (heck, he's a pseudo Talon Master at that point). with the Borkan WT, they're both at Ap-2, and with the number of shots he's putting out, you're probably going to get the 3 MW in addition. Looks real tasty,

Some more clarification needed, please. ^^

- can the drone controller (e.g. in a stealth battlesuit unit with 2 gun drones) be used on its own gun drones? Or only on a "real" drone unit?

- when does one "activate" the strategem "Counterfire Defense System? Once you see which weapon is about to attack? Once a successful to hit and to wound roll has been made but before rolling for damage (in case of random damage)? Or once you see the damage to be taken?

- which do you think is the better option a 1x 6 model crisis team or a 2x 3 model crisis team? When using 2x 3 you can still add 2 drones and can ignore blast....if using 1x 6 you benefit more from buff auras/ invocations/ commands....


Cheers,
Amaurosis

It feels hard to use positional relay support system properly. From what I understand, it can't bring in units from strategic reserve on turn 1. So its only use is to bring in units from strategic on your opponent's half of the board on turn 2. (On turn 3, its the same already).

But what would you give up one turn of shooting for in order to better position it to come in at your opponen'ts half of the board? And it needs to come in within 6 inches of your commander with the relay as well.

The only thing I can think of is maybe a fire warrior strike team. But I am not sure we even need to bother with a positional relay if that's the case because a strike team's range is quite far. Meanwhile, a breacher team won't get the full benefit of coming in from reserves because it has to be 9 inches away from the enemy when it comes in.

One thing that is interesting might be to set up a Stormsurge or broadside unit in reserve. Having such a powerful shooting unit come in on the far side of the board edge on turn 2 via the relay sets up a very scary corridor of fire that the opponent would find oppressive. But you need to give up shooting on turn 1 for this though.

Plus the caveat to all this is that your opponent can still screen you out potentially. Even if the commander with the relay is in position, if there are enemy units nearby, you still can't bring in the unit from strategic reserve.

This might be a case of bringing overwhelming force to crush one flank (to clear out any potential screening), and then on turn 2, bring in a big unit from strategic reserve there to set up a new lane of fire. But it then feels like aa "win more" sort of thing, because if you could crush an entire flank by turn 2 to set this up with one big unit in resrve, you probably are winning already. lol

Amaurosis wrote:
Some more clarification needed, please. ^^

- can the drone controller (e.g. in a stealth battlesuit unit with 2 gun drones) be used on its own gun drones? Or only on a "real" drone unit?

- when does one "activate" the strategem "Counterfire Defense System? Once you see which weapon is about to attack? Once a successful to hit and to wound roll has been made but before rolling for damage (in case of random damage)? Or once you see the damage to be taken?

- which do you think is the better option a 1x 6 model crisis team or a 2x 3 model crisis team? When using 2x 3 you can still add 2 drones and can ignore blast....if using 1x 6 you benefit more from buff auras/ invocations/ commands....


Cheers,
Amaurosis

It needs to be a Drone unit, and I think only a unit of tactical drones has that keyword, not a battlesuit unit that has some drones.

When an attack is allocated to the model, That is after you opponent has rolled to wound, you assign said wound to a model and then make a save, before you roll the save you can trigger it. So you for a random damage shot you won't know the result. since that is rolled after you fail the save.

CFDS seems to be best against very high flat damage weapons that ignore invulnerables with high AP. Luckily GW would never be daft enough to make a gun like that.

Joking aside, if you take 8 multi melta wounds, before rolling the saves, you are probably best rolling 5 dice first, see the results, then think about on the last 3, re-rolling a failed save, saviour protocols a failed save, CFDS before the save. I'd save CFDS for last I think.

EightFoldPath wrote:
CFDS seems to be best against very high flat damage weapons that ignore invulnerables with high AP. Luckily GW would never be daft enough to make a gun like that.

Joking aside, if you take 8 multi melta wounds, before rolling the saves, you are probably best rolling 5 dice first, see the results, then think about on the last 3, re-rolling a failed save, saviour protocols a failed save, CFDS before the save. I'd save CFDS for last I think.

And take the SIPU relic for an automatic reduce damage to 0 on first unsaved wound per round.

Yaktan wrote:
I am trying to decide on a build for a commander with the prototype burst cannon. I am thinking Bor'kan for my sept, so I am mostly trying to decide if I should go with the Bor'kan warlord trait, which would want to go with higher shot weapons, or go with the re-rolls generic warlord trait which would really boost the weapons with more natural oomph....

Though the thought of running a 16' range flamer that gets -1 ap and mortals on 6's to wound has a certain YOLO appeal, so I might lean that way.

The Bork'an Coldstar build (imo):

HOBC
Burst Cannon upgraded to prototype.
Tau Flamer
Shield Generator
Seeker of Perfection WLT
Overdrive Power Systems relic

If you are feeling frisky or play him conservatively, swap the shield Gen for a second flamer or an AFP.

Ordana wrote:

Amaurosis wrote:
Some more clarification needed, please. ^^

- can the drone controller (e.g. in a stealth battlesuit unit with 2 gun drones) be used on its own gun drones? Or only on a "real" drone unit?

- when does one "activate" the strategem "Counterfire Defense System? Once you see which weapon is about to attack? Once a successful to hit and to wound roll has been made but before rolling for damage (in case of random damage)? Or once you see the damage to be taken?

- which do you think is the better option a 1x 6 model crisis team or a 2x 3 model crisis team? When using 2x 3 you can still add 2 drones and can ignore blast....if using 1x 6 you benefit more from buff auras/ invocations/ commands....


Cheers,
Amaurosis

It needs to be a Drone unit, and I think only a unit of tactical drones has that keyword, not a battlesuit unit that has some drones.

A drone unit has to be a unit containing at least 1 drone.
For example, the firesight marksman buffs "sniper drone units", even though sniper drones only come as wargear of said firesight marksman (and he does not have the "sniper drone" keyord by himself).

I was thinking if anyone wanted to increase markerlights for the characters that have them (Cadre Fireblade and Firesight Marksman), the relic Ohr’Tu’s Lantern allows you to roll 5 additional D6’s instead of just 1 D6 for the markerlight action.

It seems like a good option to drastically increase markerlights on a target, but I cant help think that each of these units may benefit more from other relics instead, thinking about the play styles and uses of the units.
So what unit would actually use the Ohr’Tu’s Lantern relic? I have no idea. Anyone?

Ohr’Tu’s Lantern – extra markerlight actions, only useful if the unit is stationary (so wont fail the markerlight action) but would also have to be 36” range of enemy, so midfield and enemy deployment objectives may be the only place to use this, requiring the unit to move up the board to these objectives (failing the markerlight action). Maybe more useful in Kauyon, for enemy to come to you?

Cadre Fireblade relics
---Multi Sensory Discouragement Array – targets and enemy within 12” and halve the enemy move and charge and also removes enemy unit objective secured and enemy can only target closest unit (can be very useful for offensive use)
---Solid Image Projection Unit – unit gets 4+ invulnerable save and first failed save becomes 0 damage (could be very useful for defensive use to add durability)
---Ohr’Tu’s Lantern
---The Kindled Blade – used to pass moral tests of fire warrior units in 6” (maybe less useful)

Firesight Marksman relics
---Advanced Em Scrambler – Enemy re- enforcements cannot be setup within 12” (I think that this relic would suit most peoples play style of the marksman unit, as reaming stationary allows markerlight action and adds the stealth feild benefits. So unit is likely going to be sitting on a back or mid field objective, so may as well block enemy re-enforcements too)
---Ohr’Tu’s Lantern

I know Ive said it before in other threads but I do think that the Firesight Marksman should get the pathfinder keyword so it can move and perform markerlight action, as it would make the unit more useful and practical, I wouldn't mind paying a few more points for it (i.e. bump the unit form 70 to 75 / 80 points in the next update). Then maybe you would rethink using the Ohr’Tu’s Lantern as a relic.

Or just bring more pathfinders or marker drones.

Per RAW, all of the markers from the lantern target the same unit. As the relic doesn't give you more markerlights, just more dice for the markerlight you have, and targets are designated per markerlight.

There's very few situations where getting 4 markerlights on one target will be worth a relic choice. If they could be spread out? Maybe. But you don't need as many markerlights anymore, so it is very easy to hit the amount you need.

I think the best relic for a fireblade is the Puretide Engram Chip, provided you're not running a Ethereal for the CP generation invocation. The PEN gives CP refund rolls on some great strats, and strats which you will want to play whilst the fireblade is on the table to buff fire warriors.

The two 7-0 Tau from last weekend are quite light on markerlights and go down the drone method.

Vik had only drones:
2 on a HQ
4 in their own squad
2 with Broadsides
4 with Crisis (but only 1 squad presumably the one he never manta strikes)
2 with Stealth

Voldemort had mainly drones:
Longstrike with his pseudo ML
2 on a HQ
2 on a HQ
1 with Broadsides
1 with Broadsides

They both went light on troops (patrols to avoid them) and heavy on big 300+ point killing machine units, that would probably only use 1 ML each.

So in answer to the question:
"So what unit would actually use the Ohr’Tu’s Lantern relic? I have no idea. Anyone?"

The Ohr’Tu’s Lantern relic is pointless and not worth taking.
Take another relic instead.

I didnt realise it was all on one target, that makes it suck even more.

Looks like ill build a couple of marker drones then.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
The normal rules for allocating wounds apply, so if a model has already taken a wound, then you must keep allocating to it until it is dead.

That's the old 8th edition rule. In 9th, once you've started taking saves on a model, you have to stick to that model, even if it takes no wounds.

Twilight Pathways wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
The normal rules for allocating wounds apply, so if a model has already taken a wound, then you must keep allocating to it until it is dead.

That's the old 8th edition rule. In 9th, once you've started taking saves on a model, you have to stick to that model, even if it takes no wounds.

Yes, for that phase.

Not quite right.

If an attack successfully wounds the target unit, the player commanding the target unit allocates that attack to one model in the target unit (this can be to any model in the unit and does not have to be allocated to a model that is within range of, or visible to, the attacking model). If a model in the target unit has already lost any wounds or has already had attacks allocated to it this phase, the attack must be allocated to that model.

You can do a lot with a mixed unit of Crisis and Drones with this rule, a Shield Gen on one of the Crisis and an Iridium Suit on another/same one, and then with the CFDS, SP and re-roll strats.

Right, so if you allocate an attack to a model, all attacks for that phase must be allocated to it until it's dead or there are no more attacks in that phase. So you can't tank the bolter shots on an iridium suit and then allocate the lascannon attack to a shield drone in the same shooting phase.

And if a model has lost a wound for any reason, then attacks must be allocated to it before other models.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Right, so if you allocate an attack to a model, all attacks for that phase must be allocated to it until it's dead or there are no more attacks in that phase. So you can't tank the bolter shots on an iridium suit and then allocate the lascannon attack to a shield drone in the same shooting phase.

And if a model has lost a wound for any reason, then attacks must be allocated to it before other models.

Sorry was replying to Twilight Pathways.

EightFoldPath wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Right, so if you allocate an attack to a model, all attacks for that phase must be allocated to it until it's dead or there are no more attacks in that phase. So you can't tank the bolter shots on an iridium suit and then allocate the lascannon attack to a shield drone in the same shooting phase.

And if a model has lost a wound for any reason, then attacks must be allocated to it before other models.

Sorry was replying to Twilight Pathways.

No worries. Always helps to be clear on these things and my response did leave out some stuff!

So my estimation is that the Stormsurge is 75pts undercosted.

Do we agree, and if not, how much am I off?

It depends who you are trying to balance it against?

Custodes, future Eldar (just a guess) - Current price is fine.
Dark Eldar, Crusher Stampede - Maybe a 5% bump to 345.
TSons, GKnights, Sisters, Orks, etc - A 10% bump to 365.
Death Guard, Space Marines - A 20% bump to 400.

I'd probably just apply this to every model in the codex too. But, it isn't going to happen. GW have created a mess and their plan for fixing it is to make more mess with new unbalanced codexes, supplements and armies of renown.

Why so high against sisters

Sisters in my opinion are in the same group of books as TSons, Orks, etc. They are definitely not in the group above and probably not in the group below of Death Guard, Space Marines and formerly Necrons (I think they've gone up with the points drops). They could be pushing down towards that lower group though with their recent points increases.

Points increase loss of multifaction nerfing of rets their in much tougher place

U02dah4 wrote:
Points increase loss of multifaction nerfing of rets their in much tougher place

Also bringing it back to Tau, Sisters seem to have a really bad match into them. They can't hide from all the no LOS guns, are really good targets for massed AP3, while Retributors are exactly the kind of shooting you want into mixed suits/drones with saviour protocols in their back pocket.

So - possibly due to overdosing on mecha anime recently, have been thinking of starting a T'au Empire Crusade force.

My first thought is (for the sake of as much variety as possible whilst sticking with the theme) a pure battlesuit force using one of every battlesuit class (accepting that the Enforcer is just an XV8 with some twiddly bits and the KV128 isn't technically a 'battlesuit')

The easy bit is that crusade forces work off power level and don't include warlord traits or relics by default, so I'm assuming I get a sept trait and nothing else to start with.

A vanguard detachment of

HQ
1 x XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit

Elites
3 x XV25 Stealth Battlesuits
3 x XV8 Crisis Battlesuits
1 x XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuit


Heavy Support
1 x XV88 Broadside Battlesuit
1 x XV105 Riptide Battlesuit

is 50 power on the dot, and has the potential to look visually awesome.
Now the downside is that I don't have any 'leftover' power for any prototype systems or drones (aside from the Ghostkeel's non-optional stealth drones).

What I'm not sure of is what Sept and what weapon/support system loadouts I should be looking at.

Obviously I won't have any objective secured (that might be a reason to build an XV85 Enforcer instead), so generally speaking I'm only going to be able to take an objective by gunning down absolutely everyone protecting it - which feels like the aggressive style of Farsight might make sense. Lots of flamers, burst cannon and melta weapons.



Thought: I can spare points for some drones if I put the Commander in an XV802 Iridium suit and 'downgrade' the XV8 team to a pair of bodyguards. That saves 3 power, which could net me some drones - my brain says marker drones as it's the only way to get markerlight support in a pure battlesuit force (aside from the Farsight sept rule).

Do people have any recommendations?

@Iocarno24, I think if you want to keep to your theme, best bet would be to change your commander to an enforcer instead. At least then you can make your crisis suit unit obsec.

So, from latest results of GTs with the new Tau in the mix, it looks like the meta is now dominated by Tau and Custodes. Both with a massive win rate over all other factions once you exclude custodes and Tau. However, most of the GTs are being won by Custodes, not Tau.

Looks like Custodes are going to be a hard matchup for Tau. So specifically against custodes, what's our plan to deal with them? Specifically those 3x3 units of Bikes that can move 14 inches, have 7 wounds, 2+ save, 4++, and can fight well too. Plus the Dawn Eagle Captain on jetbike. So that's 4 units that might be zooming up the board while hiding behind LOS on turn 1, and hitting our army by turn 2. And simply put, I think if any good custodes player can tag a Tau player with 4 units on turn 2, its probably pretty much lights out for us. So, what's the best way to deal with them and Custodes?

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Looks like Custodes are going to be a hard matchup for Tau. So specifically against custodes, what's our plan to deal with them? Specifically those 3x3 units of Bikes that can move 14 inches, have 7 wounds, 2+ save, 4++, and can fight well too. Plus the Dawn Eagle Captain on jetbike. So that's 4 units that might be zooming up the board while hiding behind LOS on turn 1, and hitting our army by turn 2. And simply put, I think if any good custodes player can tag a Tau player with 4 units on turn 2, its probably pretty much lights out for us. So, what's the best way to deal with them and Custodes?

1) Bork'an Skyrays. No invulnerable save strat + no line of sight strat.

2) Bubble wrap key units with cheap Kroot so you can keep shooting or reposition.

3) Put 'speedbumps' in their way such as Drones, Kroot Hounds, Pirahna , Vespid, and min squad Stealth suits. So that you can get into position to score.

4) Use deepstrikes to get at hiding units and divert attention.

 D6Damager wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Looks like Custodes are going to be a hard matchup for Tau. So specifically against custodes, what's our plan to deal with them? Specifically those 3x3 units of Bikes that can move 14 inches, have 7 wounds, 2+ save, 4++, and can fight well too. Plus the Dawn Eagle Captain on jetbike. So that's 4 units that might be zooming up the board while hiding behind LOS on turn 1, and hitting our army by turn 2. And simply put, I think if any good custodes player can tag a Tau player with 4 units on turn 2, its probably pretty much lights out for us. So, what's the best way to deal with them and Custodes?

2) Bubble wrap key units with cheap Kroot so you can keep shooting or reposition.

I've had some success with this strat against them, though it was only in one game so it's hardly a large sample size. Most I've seen tend to go with the heavy weapons on the bikes over the hurricane bolters, so they often cant clear out large blobs of light infantry. Then you punch back with Fusion Blasters and Plasma Rifles. I did manage to pull out the win, but it was really close, only 8 VP difference IIRC.

So can someone give the following list a try and tell me how it goes.

Custom sept tennets: Blocking Tactics, Play their part

HQ-
Crisis Commander/w Cyclic, Fusion, Plasma, Flamer, iridium, Solid Image Projector, Through boldness Victory, 2x shield drones
Etheral on hover drone/w Sence of stone, Wisdom, Humble Stave, Exemplar of Kayoun, 2x marker drone
TROOP-
3x10 Kroot Carnivore
ELITE-
3x6 Crisis Suits/w Flamer, Plasma, Cyclic, 1x iridium, 5x shield generator, 1x EWO, 2x marker drone, 4x shield drone
3x2 Crisis Bodyguards/w Flamer, Plasma, shield generator, 2x shield drones

For anyone wondering, Blocking Tactics is CORE INFANTRY who charge become obsec (or double obsec) and Play Their Part is Crisis/Stealth/Broadsides count as 3 models for controling markers, Ghostkeels/Riptides/Stormsurges count as 5 models.

I like it but not sure how strong it is, I like the idea of Stealth Suits with it.

Only mildly tactics-related, but there's a painted Sentry Turret selling on Ebay for $35 right now if anyone wants to pick one up for Legends. The seller seems legit; most of what they're putting up are various Tau models for about their selling price, so it looks like it's an old army rather than a bunch of recasts. I know Sentry Turrets are hard as hell to find on the secondary market nowadays, and I'm personally not interested in picking one up, so I figured I'd get the word out to y'all first.

As for the tactics part of this post: Speaking in pure theoreticals, how good would Sentry Turrets be in a Legends game anyway? I don't pay much attention to the actual "game" side of 40k much nowadays? It seems decent if you're running a Kauyon build, other than the fact that it can't move.

Probably the single cheapest way to deploy massed Plasma Rifles. It also has the Drone keyword, so can benefit from a DC (which would be pretty critical to negate the "can only target closest" problem).

Biggest downside is the lack of mobility.

120 points + DC for a battery of four? Maybe park a Ghostkeel nearby to babysit a backline? I can see some potential.

So what kind of lists are people playing right now? What's considered good for our faction?

Take a look at what Siegler is playing for an upcoming tournament. He goes through his list in detail. Siegler from Art of War. He is one of the best players in 40k.

A lot of lists I've looked at run patrols for minimal troops and Kroot are the popular choice over Strikes and Breachers. And they do patrols plural for more Commanders.

Then the recent goonhammer article notes that based on popularity Crisis are clearly the best unit in the codex, Ethereals second. Then Commanders (incl. Shadowsun), Broadsides, Stealth Suits are the other popular choices.

Personally, I've been looking at running spearheads. 3 skyrays, a hammerhead, and a riptide. Put sms or burst cannons on the hammerhead and one of the skyrays,and drones on the rest to give them manta strike and save them for kau'yon strikes.

 carldooley wrote:
Personally, I've been looking at running spearheads. 3 skyrays, a hammerhead, and a riptide. Put sms or burst cannons on the hammerhead and one of the skyrays,and drones on the rest to give them manta strike and save them for kau'yon strikes.

I'm not seeing how drones give the vehicle the manta strike ability. The drones have it, but that's not given to the vehicle unless I missed something

 Sazzlefrats wrote:

 carldooley wrote:
Personally, I've been looking at running spearheads. 3 skyrays, a hammerhead, and a riptide. Put sms or burst cannons on the hammerhead and one of the skyrays,and drones on the rest to give them manta strike and save them for kau'yon strikes.

I'm not seeing how drones give the vehicle the manta strike ability. The drones have it, but that's not given to the vehicle unless I missed something

That is an actual possibility that requires an errata/faq.

Drone models have the manta strike ability, and manta strike does not specify that all models in a unit need to have the manta strike ability to make use of the rule.

We know that the abilities of the drones are kept when they are part of another unit, that's core rules and if it didn't then the Valued Sacrifice and Artificial Helpers rules would have useless parts, therefore drones retain their manta strike ability. This is where the previously covered "Broadside riding Shield Drones down from a manta" came from a couple of pages back.

The only possible thing which I think could prevent manta strike from being given to vehicles with docked drones is that while docked, the drone does not count as a model on the battlefield for any rules purposes (so you cannot use the Saviour Protocols strat on your devilfish and remove a docked gun drone from it in exchange for nullifying a shot against something). And I think that is quite a reach on my part and very much straying into RAI territory.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Sazzlefrats wrote:

 carldooley wrote:
Personally, I've been looking at running spearheads. 3 skyrays, a hammerhead, and a riptide. Put sms or burst cannons on the hammerhead and one of the skyrays,and drones on the rest to give them manta strike and save them for kau'yon strikes.

I'm not seeing how drones give the vehicle the manta strike ability. The drones have it, but that's not given to the vehicle unless I missed something

That is an actual possibility that requires an errata/faq.

Drone models have the manta strike ability, and manta strike does not specify that all models in a unit need to have the manta strike ability to make use of the rule.

We know that the abilities of the drones are kept when they are part of another unit, that's core rules and if it didn't then the Valued Sacrifice and Artificial Helpers rules would have useless parts, therefore drones retain their manta strike ability. This is where the previously covered "Broadside riding Shield Drones down from a manta" came from a couple of pages back.

The only possible thing which I think could prevent manta strike from being given to vehicles with docked drones is that while docked, the drone does not count as a model on the battlefield for any rules purposes (so you cannot use the Saviour Protocols strat on your devilfish and remove a docked gun drone from it in exchange for nullifying a shot against something). And I think that is quite a reach on my part and very much straying into RAI territory.

Yah true. the range though, I can easily keep them in reserve instead and have them come on the table from a board edge instead. A Riptide though, that could benefit from 'Drop Zone Clear' with an 18 shot Heavy Burst Cannon...

I have a question regarding Strike and Fade. Can this be used agressively? For example to get Farsight in combat? Move, SnF, charge for an average of 23".

It doesn't say you can't charge after, only that you can't shoot again so yeah, you can charge after.

Shame Farsight is missing the Crisis keyword (possibly an oversight?), else you could also pop Dynamic Offensive on him for a guaranteed 6" advance and ignore penalties for shooting assault weapons when advancing.

He'll probably already ignored the advancing penalty for being in Mont'ka, but the 6" auto-advance wouldn't hurt.

Lacking CRISIS definitely seems like an oversight, our codex seems full of them.
I wonder how long we're going to be waiting for our day 1 FAQ fixes.

Might be heading to a 1k tournament this weekend so could use a bit of advice about my list and the game in general.

HQ
Cadre Fireblade

Enforcer Commander - Cyclic, Missile, Plasma, Shield, Onager, 2x Shield Drone, Precision of the Hunter

Troops
10x Breachers
10x Fire Warriors - Pulse Rifle, 1x Marker Drone
10x Fire Warriors - Pulse Rifle, 1x Marker Drone

Elites
4x Crisis - Cyclic, Missile, Plasma, Shield, 2x Marker Drone, 3x Shield Drone

Heavy Support
2x Broadsides - HRR, SMS, 2x Shield Drones

To me it seems a little light in terms of numbers. I'm wondering if it's worth getting rid of the Breachers and using a different Detachment. The 85pts spared from the Breachers might let me grab another couple of Crises and either have them 1x6 or 2x3. I have a number of units at my disposal to add/remove including a Hammerhead, Ghostkeel and a couple of Remoras.

I'm also curious about how to use such a list; I've only played 1 game of 9th so far and we just went with "kill as much as we can" as we were unfamiliar with the objectives. I've been playing since 4th Ed, but with the new objectives such as Octarius and Nachmund I'm completely lost as to what my priorities should be.

Thanks all

Is there a consensus on what to equip a broadside with as a secondary system/weapon other than a twin smart missile system?

Advanced Targeting System? Stabilised Optics? Seeker missile?

EDIT: While I'm at it might as well ask, drones: what types to build? Seems like everything gives you bits to do gun drone, marker drone, or shield drone. I plan to have a bunch of fire warriors, crisis suits, broadsides suits, commanders, stealth suits, all the usual suspects. What should I build?

For drones I would make sure to build a decent set of marker drones, and then gun and shield to taste. As you note these days everything comes with a couple that can be built as any of the three, so you will eventually have more than you know what to do with. I have enough of all of them built myself that I did not need any new ones for my list when the new codex came out.

 ph34r wrote:
Is there a consensus on what to equip a broadside with as a secondary system/weapon other than a twin smart missile system?

Advanced Targeting System? Stabilised Optics? Seeker missile?

EDIT: While I'm at it might as well ask, drones: what types to build? Seems like everything gives you bits to do gun drone, marker drone, or shield drone. I plan to have a bunch of fire warriors, crisis suits, broadsides suits, commanders, stealth suits, all the usual suspects. What should I build?

If you're taking the Railguns I wouldn't bother with ATS as it actually makes them worse; they can't proc their mortal wounds. Stabilised Optics can be ok but if you play Mont'ka you're ignoring the penalty anyway. Personally I'd go for the Velocity Tracker or Multi-Tracker; there's a large number of Fly units out there, and if you're running HYMPs or SMS then exploding 6s is a nice free bonus.

 Valkyrie wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
Is there a consensus on what to equip a broadside with as a secondary system/weapon other than a twin smart missile system?

Advanced Targeting System? Stabilised Optics? Seeker missile?

EDIT: While I'm at it might as well ask, drones: what types to build? Seems like everything gives you bits to do gun drone, marker drone, or shield drone. I plan to have a bunch of fire warriors, crisis suits, broadsides suits, commanders, stealth suits, all the usual suspects. What should I build?

If you're taking the Railguns I wouldn't bother with ATS as it actually makes them worse; they can't proc their mortal wounds. Stabilised Optics can be ok but if you play Mont'ka you're ignoring the penalty anyway. Personally I'd go for the Velocity Tracker or Multi-Tracker; there's a large number of Fly units out there, and if you're running HYMPs or SMS then exploding 6s is a nice free bonus.

I think the twin plasma rifles are now better than the SMS. With the new armor of contempt, good luck with us killing anything with out of line of sight shooting.

What about battlesuit weapons?
Do we think this balance update has substantially changed the balance of power?

I feel Armour of Contempt and Mont'Ka changes have been a 1-2 punch for many weapons.

Cyclic Ion in particular - it's very expensive and AP might leave it rather lacking for power? Perhaps plasma rifles are now the best choice?

I'm starting a Tau army and I'm looking for some pointers. I have 3 ghostkeels and 2 units of steal suits from way back and recently bought a 'start collecting' box (3 crisis, 10 FWs, 1 ethereal). I'm curious if anyone has any suggestions on how I should go about expanding the collection to form an effective list.

I'm definitely aware that Crisis are the meat of most lists currently and I've read up on the latest adjustments, the problem is that I've never actually played Tau so I don't really have much frame of reference for building a 'semi-competitive' (read more than fluff, less than tournament) list.

Thanks!

 Parsalian wrote:
I'm starting a Tau army and I'm looking for some pointers. I have 3 ghostkeels and 2 units of steal suits from way back and recently bought a 'start collecting' box (3 crisis, 10 FWs, 1 ethereal). I'm curious if anyone has any suggestions on how I should go about expanding the collection to form an effective list.

I'm definitely aware that Crisis are the meat of most lists currently and I've read up on the latest adjustments, the problem is that I've never actually played Tau so I don't really have much frame of reference for building a 'semi-competitive' (read more than fluff, less than tournament) list.

Thanks!

The core of pretty much all competitive lists I believe will be minimum 10 crisis suits, with 15 probably being the most common. Point for point crisis are just the best thing we have and they can receive all sorts of efficiency buffs that other units simply can't. Other critical units are an Ethereal and kroot (infantry and hounds). Stealth suits are a useful unit that can perform a variety of roles depending on Sept. Without getting into the details of different Septs I would buy as many crisis suits as you are comfortable with and at least 20 kroot infantry.

 Dendarien wrote:

 Parsalian wrote:
I'm starting a Tau army and I'm looking for some pointers. I have 3 ghostkeels and 2 units of steal suits from way back and recently bought a 'start collecting' box (3 crisis, 10 FWs, 1 ethereal). I'm curious if anyone has any suggestions on how I should go about expanding the collection to form an effective list.

I'm definitely aware that Crisis are the meat of most lists currently and I've read up on the latest adjustments, the problem is that I've never actually played Tau so I don't really have much frame of reference for building a 'semi-competitive' (read more than fluff, less than tournament) list.

Thanks!

The core of pretty much all competitive lists I believe will be minimum 10 crisis suits, with 15 probably being the most common. Point for point crisis are just the best thing we have and they can receive all sorts of efficiency buffs that other units simply can't. Other critical units are an Ethereal and kroot (infantry and hounds). Stealth suits are a useful unit that can perform a variety of roles depending on Sept. Without getting into the details of different Septs I would buy as many crisis suits as you are comfortable with and at least 20 kroot infantry.

I've seen discussion about kroot but I'm still sort of failing to see the strengths. Are they mostly abused for the pregame move and then hoping to camp an objective for a single turn before getting cleaned up? Do they do anything more interesting or useful than that?

Slightly unrelated, but is there any advice you could provide to create a list that doesn't make me "that guy" in a group of people that don't play competitively? Would that more come down to 'play what looks cool' for Tau?

Thanks again for the advice!

 Parsalian wrote:
I've seen discussion about kroot but I'm still sort of failing to see the strengths. Are they mostly abused for the pregame move and then hoping to camp an objective for a single turn before getting cleaned up? Do they do anything more interesting or useful than that?

Slightly unrelated, but is there any advice you could provide to create a list that doesn't make me "that guy" in a group of people that don't play competitively? Would that more come down to 'play what looks cool' for Tau?

Thanks again for the advice!

Kroot are not only useful objective play/Actions, but they can also be used to screen/chaff your backline Broadsides or Railguns from 1st turn charges, deepstrikes etc.

Spamming Crisis suits will make you "that guy".

 Parsalian wrote:

 Dendarien wrote:

 Parsalian wrote:
I'm starting a Tau army and I'm looking for some pointers. I have 3 ghostkeels and 2 units of steal suits from way back and recently bought a 'start collecting' box (3 crisis, 10 FWs, 1 ethereal). I'm curious if anyone has any suggestions on how I should go about expanding the collection to form an effective list.

I'm definitely aware that Crisis are the meat of most lists currently and I've read up on the latest adjustments, the problem is that I've never actually played Tau so I don't really have much frame of reference for building a 'semi-competitive' (read more than fluff, less than tournament) list.

Thanks!

The core of pretty much all competitive lists I believe will be minimum 10 crisis suits, with 15 probably being the most common. Point for point crisis are just the best thing we have and they can receive all sorts of efficiency buffs that other units simply can't. Other critical units are an Ethereal and kroot (infantry and hounds). Stealth suits are a useful unit that can perform a variety of roles depending on Sept. Without getting into the details of different Septs I would buy as many crisis suits as you are comfortable with and at least 20 kroot infantry.

I've seen discussion about kroot but I'm still sort of failing to see the strengths. Are they mostly abused for the pregame move and then hoping to camp an objective for a single turn before getting cleaned up? Do they do anything more interesting or useful than that?

Slightly unrelated, but is there any advice you could provide to create a list that doesn't make me "that guy" in a group of people that don't play competitively? Would that more come down to 'play what looks cool' for Tau?

Thanks again for the advice!

If you want to be less competitive simply take less suits and more of anything else. A lot of the tau book is actually pretty mild - firewarriors, riptides, etc.

The 1000pt list I used against my friends Orks was a commander with high strength and high ap loadout (plasma, fusion, cib, missiles), a fireblade, two squads of fire warriors with devilfish transport, unit of three crisis suits with dual flamer and cib, a railgun broadside with plasma and a shield drone, and a hammerhead with railgun and burst cannons.

Ran it in Vior'la sept

What sort of weapons are people outfitting Crisis Suits with?

 dan2026 wrote:
What sort of weapons are people outfitting Crisis Suits with?

Plasma/Fusion with either Flamer or Burst, depending on your preferences or how often you deal with negatives to hit.

I use double flamers and burst cannons to make use of the Vior'la mortal wounds strat.

People don't think that flamethrowers and burst cannons will pump out that much damage and overlook them for other targets. On even average rolls from a 3 suit team it caps out the maximum 6 mortals from the strat, in addition to whatever normal damage gets through whatever you're shooting at.

Obviously not as good in other septs though.

 dan2026 wrote:
What sort of weapons are people outfitting Crisis Suits with?

Double plasma/1 cyclic or double plasma/1 missile pod.

I have a squad of Plas/Plas/Missile that should be good for heavy stuff, and a squad that was Flamer/Flamer/AFP for ultimate chaff-clearing power. Now I am thinking of swapping the AFP for either burst cannons or plasma. I am leaning towards the plasma, since 6 flamers toasts entire units of light stuff just fine.

I've just started collecting a Kroot army for an escalation league I'm doing with a friend. We'll be playing the first 250pt game in a month-ish.

At low points levels, I feel confident with the Kroot numbers I can squeeze in but I'm already concerned about anti-armour in larger points games.

Is there anything Kroot which works well for anti-armour or is it a case of they're meant to work with Tau to cover that weakness?

Thanks.

With pure Kroot, basically all you have is Krootox for tougher targets. So the strength of your attacks is maxing out at 7. If you can get Krootox into combat with a vehicle (or other high wounds, high toughness, high armour target) and pop the Gland relic from a shaper nearby on them then you are putting out 5 WS3+ (re-roll 1s) S7 AP-2 D2 attacks per Krootox. Which isn't terrible, but requires getting lots of Krootox into combat, having your Shaper in aura range and is only a once per battle thing. Other than that you have Kroot guns, which are basically Autocannons and smashing things with Krootox in melee, which is only S6 without that once per battle buff.

If you're up against anybody bringing T8 2+, then I think you will struggle with pure Kroot as they just don't have the strength, the AP, or the damage output.

Pure Kroot isn't meant to be a thing, they don't really have the tools to deal with anything heavier than light armour (even the Krootox is mostly ineffective against even medium armour).

If you still want to run pure kroot, I've seen others convert Kroot versions of Tau units.
For example the Krootox's even larger and more swoll cousin as a Broadside.

With Armor of Contempt and the indirect nerf, are broadsides with plasma rifles potentially worthwhile over smart missile systems? Or is the SMS still just better in overall damage?

Short question:

Do drones count towards size of e.g. a pathfinder unit when burst weapons hit the unit?

Thank you!

Amaurosis wrote:
Short question:

Do drones count towards size of e.g. a pathfinder unit when burst weapons hit the unit?

Thank you!

I'm guessing you mean blast weapons, and yes they do.

 ph34r wrote:
With Armor of Contempt and the indirect nerf, are broadsides with plasma rifles potentially worthwhile over smart missile systems? Or is the SMS still just better in overall damage?

I just came out of the Bay Area Open, I ran my broadsides with SMS and optics. I know some of the other top Tau players ran either PG or no secondary weapons but instead had ATS and Optics.

The kicker is in all of my games this would only come into consideration vs Tyranids or Grey Knights. Both have transhuman, so might as well as SMS, but... Grey Knights can get armor save -1, so plasma guns are better. Now for the players with ATS... autowound on 6's... slightly better with landing the rail guns, but no secondary guns.Overall less damage, but faster play.


Overall I think PG is better from pure damage. I did find that my SMS were crazy good against Eldar and Necrons but I didn't need them to win those games, and SMS was a little bit decent against nids to route out things that hide. And from double support systems is more efficient from a points perspective if you need those points elsewhere.

The answer is not straightforward. AND PG isn't clearly better because you aren't allowed to take optics with them, unlike with SMS and/or no secondary weapons. So....

You can take stabilised optics with the plasma guns, and if ATS triggers you don't get the mortal wound from a successful wound roll from the railgun.

EDIT:

Although this is meant to limit you from taking plasma and optics, the actual wording doesn't, in typical GW fashion.
"Note: No model can be equipped with more than one of the following: early warning override; stabilised optics; twin plasma rifle; velocity tracker."

The correct syntax for what they intended is "On each model, if one of the following is taken then you may not take the other listed pieces of wargear: early warning override; stabilised optics; twin plasma rifle; velocity tracker."

GWs wording can be validly interpreted as meaning you cannot take multiple of any of the listed options, which we already knew, but you can take one of each.

And, since it is a stupid and nonsensical restriction only put in there because of bits in the kit, you should feel free to play it as written until GW learns to actually write rules.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
You can take stabilised optics with the plasma guns, and if ATS triggers you don't get the mortal wound from a successful wound roll from the railgun.

EDIT:

Although this is meant to limit you from taking plasma and optics, the actual wording doesn't, in typical GW fashion.N
"Note: No model can be equipped with more than one of the following: early warning override; stabilised optics; twin plasma rifle; velocity tracker."

The correct syntax for what they intended is "On each model, if one of the following is taken then you may not take the other listed pieces of wargear: early warning override; stabilised optics; twin plasma rifle; velocity tracker."

GWs wording can be validly interpreted as meaning you cannot take multiple of any of the listed options, which we already knew, but you can take one of each.

And, since it is a stupid and nonsensical restriction only put in there because of bits in the kit, you should feel free to play it as written until GW learns to actually write rules.

If it were to allow PG and Optics,,, then it would say "Note: No model can be equipped with more than one EACH of the following: early warning override; stabilised optics; twin plasma rifle; velocity tracker.", but it doesn't and it would open up more permissive issues. So as written its pretty clear.

ATS is interesting, I'm not sure why more than one player choose that option with railguns. Other than shaving points I wouldn't do it. It is more consistent damage, but overall less. Not sure where 5pts spent elsewhere is better. Possibly you need the plasma guns for your crisis suit models and can't spare them for the broadsides. In my case I run the classic broadsides and I'm kinda stuck with the SMS (I have 5 new arms, needing 1 more to build the option to run plasma guns).

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
You can take stabilised optics with the plasma guns, and if ATS triggers you don't get the mortal wound from a successful wound roll from the railgun.

EDIT:

Although this is meant to limit you from taking plasma and optics, the actual wording doesn't, in typical GW fashion.
"Note: No model can be equipped with more than one of the following: early warning override; stabilised optics; twin plasma rifle; velocity tracker."

The correct syntax for what they intended is "On each model, if one of the following is taken then you may not take the other listed pieces of wargear: early warning override; stabilised optics; twin plasma rifle; velocity tracker."

GWs wording can be validly interpreted as meaning you cannot take multiple of any of the listed options, which we already knew, but you can take one of each.

And, since it is a stupid and nonsensical restriction only put in there because of bits in the kit, you should feel free to play it as written until GW learns to actually write rules.

I think this interpretation is only valid while ignoring the entire entry and reading the note in a vacuum. The entire entry already stipulates that duplicates of each item cannot be taken on a single model. Knowing that, this note (which is within the entry already stipulating no duplicates) has a much more specific meaning -- 'here is a list of things, pick one'

On an unrelated topic, with the rumors going around that Crisis Suits, Shield Drones, and Commanders are all potentially going to see point increases come CA, I'd like to pose a hypothetical for the Tau players: Supposing you HAD to keep playing Tau (none of this "i'd just play a different army" crap), and crisis suit spam was dead or at least much less of a 'must-pick', where would you go from here? What types of Combos would you lean on? What things would you test first?

 Parsalian wrote:
On an unrelated topic, with the rumors going around that Crisis Suits, Shield Drones, and Commanders are all potentially going to see point increases come CA, I'd like to pose a hypothetical for the Tau players: Supposing you HAD to keep playing Tau (none of this "i'd just play a different army" crap), and crisis suit spam was dead or at least much less of a 'must-pick', where would you go from here? What types of Combos would you lean on? What things would you test first?

Personally, I was starting to lean on Skyrays as the 'punch' of a list. But then, I've been theorycrafting with knights more than anything else.

When crisis suits go up, you switch to ion riptides and railgun hammerheads. Quite a few players are doing that now to play into Tyranids better.

Welp. It was nice having almost reasonably pointed Crisis suits I guess.

Sterling191 wrote:
Welp. It was nice having almost reasonably pointed Crisis suits I guess.

And there is zero reason to take normal Crisis over bodyguards as they cost the same.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:
Welp. It was nice having almost reasonably pointed Crisis suits I guess.

And there is zero reason to take normal Crisis over bodyguards as they cost the same.

They don't cost the same there is a 5pt per model difference and likely they hit both suit options with the same nerf. Unless you know something about the next balance slate that isn't public?

 Sazzlefrats wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:
Welp. It was nice having almost reasonably pointed Crisis suits I guess.

And there is zero reason to take normal Crisis over bodyguards as they cost the same.

They don't cost the same there is a 5pt per model difference and likely they hit both suit options with the same nerf. Unless you know something about the next balance slate that isn't public?

Dude, they are both 40pts now, in the publicly available points update document. Because GW are incompetent hacks.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/mYZ4b5gZUiktj4GI.pdf

Don't you look a bit silly, huh?

Indeed they should have nerfed harder just to ensure a meaningful choice

U02dah4 wrote:
Indeed they should have nerfed harder just to ensure a meaningful choice

Haha, I mean, yeah, a unit with extra special rules should cost more. But in typical GW fashion they approach a problem with a triple pronged attack.

Non-LOS shooting is too strong and Crisis suits can utilise it effectively. This is solved with the GW patented triple nerf!

1) Make all non-LOS shooting (except for imperial guard for *checks notes* reasons) worse by imposing to hit penalties and adding bonuses to saving throws.
2) Make the non-LOS shooting option available to Crisis teams more expensive by +5/+5/+0 points, a 100%/50%/0% increase.
3) Increase the cost of crisis suits by 33%, from 30 to 40 points.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Sazzlefrats wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:
Welp. It was nice having almost reasonably pointed Crisis suits I guess.

And there is zero reason to take normal Crisis over bodyguards as they cost the same.

They don't cost the same there is a 5pt per model difference and likely they hit both suit options with the same nerf. Unless you know something about the next balance slate that isn't public?

Dude, they are both 40pts now, in the publicly available points update document. Because GW are incompetent hacks.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/mYZ4b5gZUiktj4GI.pdf

Don't you look a bit silly, huh?

Because something came out 5 minutes ago.... today... and you are making it sound like common knowledge? And you used the word dude to really drive it home. Wow. Truly I am living in the shade of your brilliance.

 Sazzlefrats wrote:


Because something came out 5 minutes ago.... today... and you are making it sound like common knowledge? And you used the word dude to really drive it home. Wow. Truly I am living in the shade of your brilliance.

You didn't think that maybe two people talking about a points increase to crisis suits were referencing the points update that was due out around now? And then rather than go check, you decided to passive aggressively suggest I was being a bit silly to assume that GW would do something so obviously dumb as to cost the crisis suits and bodyguards the same.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Sazzlefrats wrote:


Because something came out 5 minutes ago.... today... and you are making it sound like common knowledge? And you used the word dude to really drive it home. Wow. Truly I am living in the shade of your brilliance.

You didn't think that maybe two people talking about a points increase to crisis suits were referencing the points update that was due out around now? And then rather than go check, you decided to passive aggressively suggest I was being a bit silly to assume that GW would do something so obviously dumb as to cost the crisis suits and bodyguards the same.

Many knew points had to change long before June, and there were quite a few posts here on that topic. One more didn't necessarily mean the points hammer had dropped. But to assume everyone is going to be instantly aware when it does... I would have dropped the link and not written another word, you would have been an internet hero.

Why shouldn't crisis suits and bodyguards cost the same... the body guard rule isn't worth 5pts a model after the nerf, not even worth a 1pt difference.

A Manta is 10/10 for meme list value but is there any way to win a game with one? Any combination of secondaries and strategy that could have any hope of scoring enough VP that VP denial by killing is sufficient to win? I'm thinking of getting one and it would be hilarious to take it to a tournament but I need to win at least one game in the losers bracket!

 Shas'O Ky'husa wrote:
A Manta is 10/10 for meme list value but is there any way to win a game with one? Any combination of secondaries and strategy that could have any hope of scoring enough VP that VP denial by killing is sufficient to win? I'm thinking of getting one and it would be hilarious to take it to a tournament but I need to win at least one game in the losers bracket!

Not in the 2000 point bracket. Maybe you could swing something at 3000pts, but even then it would be really tough. You want to be up in the 5000pt region before you're not completely crippling yourself.

So I bought Shadowsun last night and while I posted about somehow being able to run her in an FSE list I'm wondering about her actual usefulness.

Shooting-wise she's not bad but which Fusions do people normally go for? The double-shot is nice but it's only D2, would one of each be more appropriate?

Given she's 20pts more than Farsight I'm not sure what else she actually brings to the table besides the standard re-roll aura. The warlord trait isn't that great unless you're taking Kau'yon but am I missing something or are there any decent tactics for her?

 Sazzlefrats wrote:

Why shouldn't crisis suits and bodyguards cost the same... the body guard rule isn't worth 5pts a model after the nerf, not even worth a 1pt difference.

So what's drawback of bodyguard vs crisis? Same plus special rule and extra attack is 0 pts only for noob's and waac's.

 Valkyrie wrote:
So I bought Shadowsun last night and while I posted about somehow being able to run her in an FSE list I'm wondering about her actual usefulness.

Shooting-wise she's not bad but which Fusions do people normally go for? The double-shot is nice but it's only D2, would one of each be more appropriate?

Given she's 20pts more than Farsight I'm not sure what else she actually brings to the table besides the standard re-roll aura. The warlord trait isn't that great unless you're taking Kau'yon but am I missing something or are there any decent tactics for her?

I always use the proper fusion profile. Crisis Commander with 2 fusion, 1 missile pod and 1 burst cannon is 155 to her 150, she gets 2 drones (main one of interest is the can't be targeted one as it messes with snipers and can be used for some cheeky objective play), +1 wound, infiltrate, permanent -1 to be hit in shooting, 5++ and chapter master buff for core and character. Downside is has to be your warlord, upside is she is often a way to get a 3rd or 5th Commander for 0CP.

She is good in any Sept, but then becomes really good in Tau Sept as her warlord trait is very meta right now with two bombers.

Good afternoon all!

I'm a newcomer to the Tau and I am getting ready for my first game with them on Thursday.

Only small, 1250 points against Orks.

Just wondering if anybody has any advice (not necessarily Ork specific because i've played them plenty of times with Eldar).

Looking for things like useful stratagems that you find yourself using every game or interesting tactics / counters that you like to use.

Wish me luck! For the greater good!

What should I give crisis suits? I have enough for 13 or 14 crisis suits. I know they got nerfed into the ground, I build and paint slowly

Did they get a new nerf? In most cases I'm still happy with CIB, Burst Cannon, Plasma Rifle. But I'm thinking double plasma might be better

I must be talking about old nerfs at this point. Are burst cannons really worth it? Aren’t they kinda weak with no AP?

 ph34r wrote:
I must be talking about old nerfs at this point. Are burst cannons really worth it? Aren’t they kinda weak with no AP?

Kinda weak, but cheap for what you get. Plasma isn't bad. I'm thinking of running 1 unit CIB, 2x plasma, and another unit thats all flamer (just 3 models). And adding a flyer

 ph34r wrote:
I must be talking about old nerfs at this point. Are burst cannons really worth it? Aren’t they kinda weak with no AP?

Well with all of armour of contempt around ap1 isn't much better than ap0. And now there's daemons around who don't care about ap. Faced tau in small game and while plasma, melta and railgun was like "whatever" the burst cannons gave me a scare

Hi all,

I came into possesion of a number of T'au kits but I don't really have any cohesive plan for their army (other than being T'au Sept). I am currently building a Ghostkeel model but I am a bit overwhelmed by the number of options. Can anyone please recommend a decent general loadout?

 Bilge Rat wrote:
Hi all,

I came into possesion of a number of T'au kits but I don't really have any cohesive plan for their army (other than being T'au Sept). I am currently building a Ghostkeel model but I am a bit overwhelmed by the number of options. Can anyone please recommend a decent general loadout?

Ghostkeels aren't the most competitive choice at the moment, but from what I've seen there are two distinct loadouts.

1. Fusion Collider and twin Fusion Blasters. Just all the Fusion.
2. Ion Raker and twin Burst Cannons. Good bit of firepower that means you can use your Stealth field ability

Been a while since I played Tau so it may have changed since.

Never bought a ghostkeel, how easy would it be to magnetise for weapon swaps?

Magnetising is usually the recommended way to go for our suits as what is good (or maybe even legal) can change from edition to edition and codex to codex.

I think I can magnetise the big gun. The smaller ones are more fiddly but I can probably just stick them on with blutak for now since I won't get around to painting it for a while.

The ion raker + burst cannons build sounds pretty good to me so I think I will go for that. Thank you!

I made a list and would appreciate a more experienced eye on it.

Also, related to that, how many weapon options do the Crisis Boxes come with?

 JNAProductions wrote:
I made a list and would appreciate a more experienced eye on it.

Also, related to that, how many weapon options do the Crisis Boxes come with?

GW says you get 3-4 of each.

 Valkyrie wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
I made a list and would appreciate a more experienced eye on it.

Also, related to that, how many weapon options do the Crisis Boxes come with?

GW says you get 3-4 of each.

Yeah, you get one of each weapon type in the kit per suit the kit can build and then one extra plasma rifle, fusion blaster and burst cannon.
With the new point costs for guns, where duplicates get more expensive, as well as the changes to targeting allowing for easy split fire, you often don't want to double up on guns as much as you used to so not getting enough for full double (or even triple) gun squads isn't as annoying as it used to be.

 Valkyrie wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
I made a list and would appreciate a more experienced eye on it.

Also, related to that, how many weapon options do the Crisis Boxes come with?

GW says you get 3-4 of each.

Minus the Cyclic Ion, right? That's only in the Commander.

Yeah. If you have spare flamers and burst cannons you can kitbash a cib using a burst cannon and 3 flamers. You cut the barrels off the flamers and burst cannon then glue the flamer barrels to the burst cannon back part in the same manner as on the CIB. Takes a lot of flamers though, so is more for the long time tau players who had loads of spares from the years where flamers were really bad options for our suits.

Hi, ya'll. Recently, I've been playing friendly small points games with my brother. Problem is, they're all IG vs IG - Cadians versus my 95th Praetorian Rifles. To rectify this, I picked up a box of Fire Warriors and have begun painting them in D'Yanoi sept colors.

A broad sketch of the Tau force I want to play is as follows. There won't be too many big Battlesuits, save for Commanders, Ghostkeels, and the odd Crisis Suit Squad. Instead, I'm going to focus on Fire Warriors, Pathfinders, Devilfish/Hammerheads, Stealthsuits, and maybe Kroot. The fluff is that the Shas'O, Farfire, is a big Mont'ka guy and prefers to use these assets.

So, a couple of questions:

-Would Sa'cea be a good Sept Tenet pick for such an army? Dense Cover for my infantry at 12" seems good, especially with the durability upgrades Strike Teams can take and Stealthsuits' inherent bonuses.

-Aside from the Hammerhead, most of the really hardy anti-tank seems to be centered in the Battlesuits. Can such an army cope with Guard if I take Ion Rifles/Rail Rifles on my Pathfinders? Furthermore, should I take ion rifles or Rail Rifles on Pathfinders?

If your brother is running mortar crews your all infantry army is going to suffer.

That being said my favorite unit is a cold star commander.

Hey Guys, I know I am a bit late to the party (10th edition being around the corner).

I find myself looking for another army (having Orks, CSM and Raven Guard) and right now I'm looking at Tau and Necrons... What do you guys think about Tau? Are they "any good" or is it an army you play "the fluff is nice"

I'm not looking for the super-awesome-defeat-all-army, but I dont play only for fluff.

My friends have Sisters, Dark Angels, Custodes, Nurgle, Flesh Tearers, Grey Knights, Tyranids

Do I see any chances of winning against those with Tau? We play mostly 1500pts. battles.

Thanks in advance for not ripping me apart! ^^

LeRufus wrote:
Hey Guys, I know I am a bit late to the party (10th edition being around the corner).

I find myself looking for another army (having Orks, CSM and Raven Guard) and right now I'm looking at Tau and Necrons... What do you guys think about Tau? Are they "any good" or is it an army you play "the fluff is nice"

I'm not looking for the super-awesome-defeat-all-army, but I dont play only for fluff.

My friends have Sisters, Dark Angels, Custodes, Nurgle, Flesh Tearers, Grey Knights, Tyranids

Do I see any chances of winning against those with Tau? We play mostly 1500pts. battles.

Thanks in advance for not ripping me apart! ^^

Tau are still a pretty strong army IMO despite a few naysayers I've seen around. They definitely have the ranged firepower to take on those armies, and the manoeuvrability to stay out of harm's way. Generally however I wouldn't commit financially to a new army right now, wait until 10th is out before you commit, you might see something that takes your fancy then.

Thanks for your input!
Yeah I'm not putting any bucks in the army, I'm just wondering about the two options

Like is it really just "Stand and Shoot"? Is there tactical finesse to it, is it very complicated?

Thanks

LeRufus wrote:
Thanks for your input!
Yeah I'm not putting any bucks in the army, I'm just wondering about the two options

Like is it really just "Stand and Shoot"? Is there tactical finesse to it, is it very complicated?

Thanks

Stand and shoot is a big part of the force I admit, but you can still really use your speed to your advantage. At the moment they're one of only a couple of units that have a "disembark after moving" ability, which you can do en-mass with Devilfish. Your Crisis suits can be very quick when combined with Mont'ka, and your units that will want to just stand there and shoot do a decent job at it, such as Broadsides and Stormsurges.