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Hi there!


An opinion of yours concerning a few points:


- do drones on the Coldstar Commander make any sense? They only move 10" after all and are left behind quickly...or am I wrong?

- when distributing shots to e.g. a crisis unit with added drones (any kind) may I now choose to have the drones take the hits before one of the crisis does? In melee, too?

- how many markerlights do you propose to add in a list? Is there some formula regarding the number of shooting units in your list? Thought about adding around 16 (assuming approx. 25% of those have no target and from the remaining 12 only 8 "hit" on average).

- use broadsides rather in single units to avoid damage spill over OR use them together in one unit to benefit more from invocations?

- any reason NOT to take the named character ethereals instead of the basic ethereal? Except for the hover disc for better movement?

- would you add marker drones to a breacher team which is being transported by a devilfish to secure some objective? After all, they cannot use the markerlight in the turn they disembark, correct?


Thank you!

Cheers,
Amaurosis

Hi Amaurosis,

1) Yes, the Coldstar does have more movement than the drones and so you would have to move at the speed of the attached drones. However, in situations where you cannot hide, you may want to sacrifice the speed of your Coldstar for some ablative wounds, certainly during the early game where the enemy will most likely have their most powerful guns still alive. You can then detach the drones if they are still alive and make use of your speed in the later turns.

2) Yes, attached drones are eligible to be selected to be allocated hits/wounds. The normal rules for allocating wounds apply, so if a model has already taken a wound, then you must keep allocating to it until it is dead. As such, you'll want to put wounds on drones first, or make use of the saviour protocols strat to negate damage which gets through your Crisis saves.

3) 16 sounds like a lot. Even with only 8 hitting, do you have 8 other units to shoot with to actually make use of them? It really depends on your list with regards to how many lights you need.

4) Multiple in one unit, to be efficient with invocations, markerlights and ablative wounds. A unit with a single broadside can have 4 ablative wounds from shield drones, a unit with 2 can have 8, a unit of 3 can have 12. Until those ablative wounds are gone, the enemy cannot harm your Broadsides and so cannot reduce the firepower you put out. With separate units, it is a lot easier for them to get through the shield drones and start to hurt the broadsides behind. Also, you're unlikely to have the points for maxed out shield drones on all your broadsides, so you'd either have to spread out the drones, or have some naked broadsides, which are easy pickings for lascannon and the like.

5) Points.

6) I personally wouldn't as adding drones makes your troop infantry squads vulnerable to blasts. Better to stick those drones on other units or take a unit of them on their own.

Thank you, A Town Called Malus!

You brought up some aspects, which surely convince. Have to make some changes to my first list. ^^


At first I wanted to get breacher teams on the objectives. Then I realized that the strike teams have 2 shots at range 18" (whereas breacher only at 14") with the exactley same stats as well.

So, unless playing Bork'an (+4" range) I cannot see the benefit of a breacher team anymore. Or do I miss something?

It seems to me, that the strike team is more versatile than the breacher.

The only positive I see is breacher's strategem (reroll to wound) and a possible advance move, but I am unsure whether advancing is a real matter for me if I want to drop them by devilfish.

You don't bring Breachers for their 14" range, because then yes your probably better off with Strike Teams.

You bring Breachers for the str 6 -2ap at 8"

What are the odds that normal Crisis suits being able to take 4 hard points is a typo and they will go back to 3 in the errata?

Given that support systems match across all the datasheets with the exception of the Bodyguards, the question of what is a typo isn't the regular Crisis team.

So I'm looking at my FSE and just wondering why I wouldn't take 2 units of 5 gun drones for 40pts each. Drop them in from manta strike, close to a drone controller unit and they will be hitting on 3s (at a unit within 12"). If in Mont'ka and is the closest unit, that's 20 S5 AP-1 shots hitting on 3's, rerolling 1 failed wound roll.
Of course, I may be using those beacons for Turn 1 crisis suit assaults, but if not, might as well drop in such a cheap unit. Seems they can do some decent work at short range in FSE detachments.

 bullyboy wrote:
So I'm looking at my FSE and just wondering why I wouldn't take 2 units of 5 gun drones for 40pts each. Drop them in from manta strike, close to a drone controller unit and they will be hitting on 3s (at a unit within 12"). If in Mont'ka and is the closest unit, that's 20 S5 AP-1 shots hitting on 3's, rerolling 1 failed wound roll.
Of course, I may be using those beacons for Turn 1 crisis suit assaults, but if not, might as well drop in such a cheap unit. Seems they can do some decent work at short range in FSE detachments.

gun drones in general are basically the cheapest firepower in the entire codex.
I would not be surprised at all if someone manages to take a tournament with a list that is mostly drones, Ghostkeels (for the drone controller) and some assorted support pieces.

The thing that would hold back drone spam is their targeting restrictions. Each drone controller can only affect one unit a turn, so the rest who are not under the effect can only shoot at the closest eligible unit.

But yes, 8 points for 2 pulse carbines is nice.

Big flaw in my thoughts... Drone Control happens in Command phase so doesn't help units dropping in from Manta.

I am trying to decide on a build for a commander with the prototype burst cannon. I am thinking Bor'kan for my sept, so I am mostly trying to decide if I should go with the Bor'kan warlord trait, which would want to go with higher shot weapons, or go with the re-rolls generic warlord trait which would really boost the weapons with more natural oomph....

Though the thought of running a 16' range flamer that gets -1 ap and mortals on 6's to wound has a certain YOLO appeal, so I might lean that way.

I mean, Coldstar with HOBC and prototype BC is putting out a ton of shots (heck, he's a pseudo Talon Master at that point). with the Borkan WT, they're both at Ap-2, and with the number of shots he's putting out, you're probably going to get the 3 MW in addition. Looks real tasty,

Some more clarification needed, please. ^^

- can the drone controller (e.g. in a stealth battlesuit unit with 2 gun drones) be used on its own gun drones? Or only on a "real" drone unit?

- when does one "activate" the strategem "Counterfire Defense System? Once you see which weapon is about to attack? Once a successful to hit and to wound roll has been made but before rolling for damage (in case of random damage)? Or once you see the damage to be taken?

- which do you think is the better option a 1x 6 model crisis team or a 2x 3 model crisis team? When using 2x 3 you can still add 2 drones and can ignore blast....if using 1x 6 you benefit more from buff auras/ invocations/ commands....


Cheers,
Amaurosis

It feels hard to use positional relay support system properly. From what I understand, it can't bring in units from strategic reserve on turn 1. So its only use is to bring in units from strategic on your opponent's half of the board on turn 2. (On turn 3, its the same already).

But what would you give up one turn of shooting for in order to better position it to come in at your opponen'ts half of the board? And it needs to come in within 6 inches of your commander with the relay as well.

The only thing I can think of is maybe a fire warrior strike team. But I am not sure we even need to bother with a positional relay if that's the case because a strike team's range is quite far. Meanwhile, a breacher team won't get the full benefit of coming in from reserves because it has to be 9 inches away from the enemy when it comes in.

One thing that is interesting might be to set up a Stormsurge or broadside unit in reserve. Having such a powerful shooting unit come in on the far side of the board edge on turn 2 via the relay sets up a very scary corridor of fire that the opponent would find oppressive. But you need to give up shooting on turn 1 for this though.

Plus the caveat to all this is that your opponent can still screen you out potentially. Even if the commander with the relay is in position, if there are enemy units nearby, you still can't bring in the unit from strategic reserve.

This might be a case of bringing overwhelming force to crush one flank (to clear out any potential screening), and then on turn 2, bring in a big unit from strategic reserve there to set up a new lane of fire. But it then feels like aa "win more" sort of thing, because if you could crush an entire flank by turn 2 to set this up with one big unit in resrve, you probably are winning already. lol

Amaurosis wrote:
Some more clarification needed, please. ^^

- can the drone controller (e.g. in a stealth battlesuit unit with 2 gun drones) be used on its own gun drones? Or only on a "real" drone unit?

- when does one "activate" the strategem "Counterfire Defense System? Once you see which weapon is about to attack? Once a successful to hit and to wound roll has been made but before rolling for damage (in case of random damage)? Or once you see the damage to be taken?

- which do you think is the better option a 1x 6 model crisis team or a 2x 3 model crisis team? When using 2x 3 you can still add 2 drones and can ignore blast....if using 1x 6 you benefit more from buff auras/ invocations/ commands....


Cheers,
Amaurosis

It needs to be a Drone unit, and I think only a unit of tactical drones has that keyword, not a battlesuit unit that has some drones.

When an attack is allocated to the model, That is after you opponent has rolled to wound, you assign said wound to a model and then make a save, before you roll the save you can trigger it. So you for a random damage shot you won't know the result. since that is rolled after you fail the save.

CFDS seems to be best against very high flat damage weapons that ignore invulnerables with high AP. Luckily GW would never be daft enough to make a gun like that.

Joking aside, if you take 8 multi melta wounds, before rolling the saves, you are probably best rolling 5 dice first, see the results, then think about on the last 3, re-rolling a failed save, saviour protocols a failed save, CFDS before the save. I'd save CFDS for last I think.

EightFoldPath wrote:
CFDS seems to be best against very high flat damage weapons that ignore invulnerables with high AP. Luckily GW would never be daft enough to make a gun like that.

Joking aside, if you take 8 multi melta wounds, before rolling the saves, you are probably best rolling 5 dice first, see the results, then think about on the last 3, re-rolling a failed save, saviour protocols a failed save, CFDS before the save. I'd save CFDS for last I think.

And take the SIPU relic for an automatic reduce damage to 0 on first unsaved wound per round.

Yaktan wrote:
I am trying to decide on a build for a commander with the prototype burst cannon. I am thinking Bor'kan for my sept, so I am mostly trying to decide if I should go with the Bor'kan warlord trait, which would want to go with higher shot weapons, or go with the re-rolls generic warlord trait which would really boost the weapons with more natural oomph....

Though the thought of running a 16' range flamer that gets -1 ap and mortals on 6's to wound has a certain YOLO appeal, so I might lean that way.

The Bork'an Coldstar build (imo):

HOBC
Burst Cannon upgraded to prototype.
Tau Flamer
Shield Generator
Seeker of Perfection WLT
Overdrive Power Systems relic

If you are feeling frisky or play him conservatively, swap the shield Gen for a second flamer or an AFP.

Ordana wrote:

Amaurosis wrote:
Some more clarification needed, please. ^^

- can the drone controller (e.g. in a stealth battlesuit unit with 2 gun drones) be used on its own gun drones? Or only on a "real" drone unit?

- when does one "activate" the strategem "Counterfire Defense System? Once you see which weapon is about to attack? Once a successful to hit and to wound roll has been made but before rolling for damage (in case of random damage)? Or once you see the damage to be taken?

- which do you think is the better option a 1x 6 model crisis team or a 2x 3 model crisis team? When using 2x 3 you can still add 2 drones and can ignore blast....if using 1x 6 you benefit more from buff auras/ invocations/ commands....


Cheers,
Amaurosis

It needs to be a Drone unit, and I think only a unit of tactical drones has that keyword, not a battlesuit unit that has some drones.

A drone unit has to be a unit containing at least 1 drone.
For example, the firesight marksman buffs "sniper drone units", even though sniper drones only come as wargear of said firesight marksman (and he does not have the "sniper drone" keyord by himself).

I was thinking if anyone wanted to increase markerlights for the characters that have them (Cadre Fireblade and Firesight Marksman), the relic Ohr’Tu’s Lantern allows you to roll 5 additional D6’s instead of just 1 D6 for the markerlight action.

It seems like a good option to drastically increase markerlights on a target, but I cant help think that each of these units may benefit more from other relics instead, thinking about the play styles and uses of the units.
So what unit would actually use the Ohr’Tu’s Lantern relic? I have no idea. Anyone?

Ohr’Tu’s Lantern – extra markerlight actions, only useful if the unit is stationary (so wont fail the markerlight action) but would also have to be 36” range of enemy, so midfield and enemy deployment objectives may be the only place to use this, requiring the unit to move up the board to these objectives (failing the markerlight action). Maybe more useful in Kauyon, for enemy to come to you?

Cadre Fireblade relics
---Multi Sensory Discouragement Array – targets and enemy within 12” and halve the enemy move and charge and also removes enemy unit objective secured and enemy can only target closest unit (can be very useful for offensive use)
---Solid Image Projection Unit – unit gets 4+ invulnerable save and first failed save becomes 0 damage (could be very useful for defensive use to add durability)
---Ohr’Tu’s Lantern
---The Kindled Blade – used to pass moral tests of fire warrior units in 6” (maybe less useful)

Firesight Marksman relics
---Advanced Em Scrambler – Enemy re- enforcements cannot be setup within 12” (I think that this relic would suit most peoples play style of the marksman unit, as reaming stationary allows markerlight action and adds the stealth feild benefits. So unit is likely going to be sitting on a back or mid field objective, so may as well block enemy re-enforcements too)
---Ohr’Tu’s Lantern

I know Ive said it before in other threads but I do think that the Firesight Marksman should get the pathfinder keyword so it can move and perform markerlight action, as it would make the unit more useful and practical, I wouldn't mind paying a few more points for it (i.e. bump the unit form 70 to 75 / 80 points in the next update). Then maybe you would rethink using the Ohr’Tu’s Lantern as a relic.

Or just bring more pathfinders or marker drones.

Per RAW, all of the markers from the lantern target the same unit. As the relic doesn't give you more markerlights, just more dice for the markerlight you have, and targets are designated per markerlight.

There's very few situations where getting 4 markerlights on one target will be worth a relic choice. If they could be spread out? Maybe. But you don't need as many markerlights anymore, so it is very easy to hit the amount you need.

I think the best relic for a fireblade is the Puretide Engram Chip, provided you're not running a Ethereal for the CP generation invocation. The PEN gives CP refund rolls on some great strats, and strats which you will want to play whilst the fireblade is on the table to buff fire warriors.

The two 7-0 Tau from last weekend are quite light on markerlights and go down the drone method.

Vik had only drones:
2 on a HQ
4 in their own squad
2 with Broadsides
4 with Crisis (but only 1 squad presumably the one he never manta strikes)
2 with Stealth

Voldemort had mainly drones:
Longstrike with his pseudo ML
2 on a HQ
2 on a HQ
1 with Broadsides
1 with Broadsides

They both went light on troops (patrols to avoid them) and heavy on big 300+ point killing machine units, that would probably only use 1 ML each.

So in answer to the question:
"So what unit would actually use the Ohr’Tu’s Lantern relic? I have no idea. Anyone?"

The Ohr’Tu’s Lantern relic is pointless and not worth taking.
Take another relic instead.

I didnt realise it was all on one target, that makes it suck even more.

Looks like ill build a couple of marker drones then.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
The normal rules for allocating wounds apply, so if a model has already taken a wound, then you must keep allocating to it until it is dead.

That's the old 8th edition rule. In 9th, once you've started taking saves on a model, you have to stick to that model, even if it takes no wounds.

Twilight Pathways wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
The normal rules for allocating wounds apply, so if a model has already taken a wound, then you must keep allocating to it until it is dead.

That's the old 8th edition rule. In 9th, once you've started taking saves on a model, you have to stick to that model, even if it takes no wounds.

Yes, for that phase.

Not quite right.

If an attack successfully wounds the target unit, the player commanding the target unit allocates that attack to one model in the target unit (this can be to any model in the unit and does not have to be allocated to a model that is within range of, or visible to, the attacking model). If a model in the target unit has already lost any wounds or has already had attacks allocated to it this phase, the attack must be allocated to that model.

You can do a lot with a mixed unit of Crisis and Drones with this rule, a Shield Gen on one of the Crisis and an Iridium Suit on another/same one, and then with the CFDS, SP and re-roll strats.

Right, so if you allocate an attack to a model, all attacks for that phase must be allocated to it until it's dead or there are no more attacks in that phase. So you can't tank the bolter shots on an iridium suit and then allocate the lascannon attack to a shield drone in the same shooting phase.

And if a model has lost a wound for any reason, then attacks must be allocated to it before other models.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Right, so if you allocate an attack to a model, all attacks for that phase must be allocated to it until it's dead or there are no more attacks in that phase. So you can't tank the bolter shots on an iridium suit and then allocate the lascannon attack to a shield drone in the same shooting phase.

And if a model has lost a wound for any reason, then attacks must be allocated to it before other models.

Sorry was replying to Twilight Pathways.

EightFoldPath wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Right, so if you allocate an attack to a model, all attacks for that phase must be allocated to it until it's dead or there are no more attacks in that phase. So you can't tank the bolter shots on an iridium suit and then allocate the lascannon attack to a shield drone in the same shooting phase.

And if a model has lost a wound for any reason, then attacks must be allocated to it before other models.

Sorry was replying to Twilight Pathways.

No worries. Always helps to be clear on these things and my response did leave out some stuff!