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Sterling191 wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

Whilst a deep striking Broadside is a funny thing to picture, I'm not sure it has a huge impact on the game as the targets your XV88s are typically going to be hunting will find hiding tricky on many tables. They've got 30" range on their secondary weapons and no benefit for getting within any range bracket so range isn't a huge issue when it comes to maximising firepower.

Farsight Broadsides Drop Zone Clearing (the strat works for any Battlesuit unit dropping out of Manta Strike) for full hit and wound rerolls for the budget price of 2 CP is gonna make a dent in just about anything.

With ATS to auto wound on 6s with hymp and sms, maybe mont ka for ap-3 on top of that...

 CKO wrote:

 pumaman1 wrote:
So . Someone in a T'au Facebook group I am in is reading the rules... Generously. But amusingly.

He notes all drones have manta strike, manta strike doesn't contain the same language as deathwatch where everyone on the unit has to have it to apply. He is postulating any unit that has drones as an add on, such as broadsides, could manta strike in, Raw. Thematically, a railgun broadside with a drone beneath each foot surfing down.

I enjoy, but don't agree with the thought (could be a fun Break Point narrative game) but wanted to let the DakkaDakka members discuss as I don't have the dex in hand yet

It never ceases to amaze me when people try to bend the rules. Broadsides are one of the best units in the codex, but getting shooting angles is hard I think they can deep strike because they have drones? Everything in the codex has drones, silly!

Hey! If tau players are willing to pay the CP tax and the right tactical philosophy, and don't instalose if they deploy nothing, who are you to say they are doing it wrong?

So, I have been thinking about the fight over the midfield objectives. What about using a Riptide or even better, a Stormsurge to sit on a midpoint objective and tank everything?

I mean, pound for pound, a Riptide with 5+ FNP or a Stormsurge with its T8, 4++, 2+ is one of the toughest thing out there to shift even in melee by far within the Tau codex. And with Mont'ka giving advance and still able to shoot everything. Its quite possible to literally T1 advance onto a midfield objective with a massive Stormsurge or a Riptide.

So, instead of keeping these things safe, the idea is to be aggressive with them and plonk them down on a midpoint objective, ideally if its between a gap between two ruins or terrain.

We will of course back them up with our crisis suits, commanders and shooting. But the thing is, they are the ones most likely to survive any melee charge, and they can kind of "hold the line". Their massive bulk also means that they take up lots of nice real estate on the objective point so your opponent can't fit models onto the point unless he kills off your stormsurge or Riptide.

Now, this isn't to say they can't be killed. But when we advance our Riptide or Stormsurge onto that point, we can pretty much clear the immediate area around it with all the shooting we have. So, this reduces the available forces to charge and get into melee with them the next turn.

A Stormsurge is probably better than the Riptide in this case because it can literally use its walking battleship rule to fall back and continue to fire with all guns. But a Riptide can just stand in place and shoot with a minus 1 penalty to hold the line.

Hmm, by the way, can a Stormsurge that is stuck in combat still do its action to "deploy anchors" for the reroll to hit on all its shooting assuming we don't even want to take a single step back?

Eldenfirefly wrote:
So, I have been thinking about the fight over the midfield objectives. What about using a Riptide or even better, a Stormsurge to sit on a midpoint objective and tank everything?

I mean, pound for pound, a Riptide with 5+ FNP or a Stormsurge with its T8, 4++, 2+ is one of the toughest thing out there to shift even in melee by far within the Tau codex. And with Mont'ka giving advance and still able to shoot everything. Its quite possible to literally T1 advance onto a midfield objective with a massive Stormsurge or a Riptide.

So, instead of keeping these things safe, the idea is to be aggressive with them and plonk them down on a midpoint objective, ideally if its between a gap between two ruins or terrain.

We will of course back them up with our crisis suits, commanders and shooting. But the thing is, they are the ones most likely to survive any melee charge, and they can kind of "hold the line". Their massive bulk also means that they take up lots of nice real estate on the objective point so your opponent can't fit models onto the point unless he kills off your stormsurge or Riptide.

Now, this isn't to say they can't be killed. But when we advance our Riptide or Stormsurge onto that point, we can pretty much clear the immediate area around it with all the shooting we have. So, this reduces the available forces to charge and get into melee with them the next turn.

A Stormsurge is probably better than the Riptide in this case because it can literally use its walking battleship rule to fall back and continue to fire with all guns. But a Riptide can just stand in place and shoot with a minus 1 penalty to hold the line.

Hmm, by the way, can a Stormsurge that is stuck in combat still do its action to "deploy anchors" for the reroll to hit on all its shooting assuming we don't even want to take a single step back?

Have a friendly neighborhood ghost keep nearby with some stealth drones just to make it so no across the board shooting is allowed but any pesky basilisks or bubble chuckas

So one more question. How are we handling the super fast melee type armies at this stage? Just shoot them before they reach us? Eldar is coming out, and even before this, Drukhari can easily make armies that can advance and charge into combat given its literally in their power from pain table.

Custodes Bikes also move 14 inches and there is probably some kind of sub faction or kata or rules that let them advance and charge if they want to.

In any case, if the opponent throws enough fast units up the table, some of them will get their charges in. Its not like we can shoot off their entire army in one round.

So, how do we handle the fast threats that do get melee with us? Partly, when I mentioned Stormsurge or Riptides being able to tank melee charges above, I was thinking about this issue also.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 pumaman1 wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
So, I have been thinking about the fight over the midfield objectives. What about using a Riptide or even better, a Stormsurge to sit on a midpoint objective and tank everything?

Hmm, by the way, can a Stormsurge that is stuck in combat still do its action to "deploy anchors" for the reroll to hit on all its shooting assuming we don't even want to take a single step back?

Have a friendly neighborhood ghost keep nearby with some stealth drones just to make it so no across the board shooting is allowed but any pesky basilisks or bubble chuckas

What? a Ghostkeel and stealth suit can prevent across the board shooting? I must have missed something...

In any case, it still doesn't prevent them charging onto the midboard objectives or from fast units trying to charge into our units.

Solar Watch is the only subfaction of Custodes that can give advance and charge and it requires a specific WLT and can only be applied to infantry.

ihockert wrote:
Solar Watch is the only subfaction of Custodes that can give advance and charge and it requires a specific WLT and can only be applied to infantry.

Be more worried about Emissaries giving bikes a pregame move.

Eldenfirefly wrote:

What? a Ghostkeel and stealth suit can prevent across the board shooting? I must have missed something...

Ghostkeels themselves cannot be shot (depending on ranges and available other targets), they don't prevent other units from being ineligible to be shot.

Not stealth suit, but stealth drones, I misread the leaks (again, no codex in hand) that they gave "a unit" the ability to not be targeted outside of 18" etc. But it's "this unit" ie gjostkeel only, though can break the drones off with a strategem if you really wanted to burn a cp

Still absorbing the new book, but I like what I'm seeing. I haven't really fielded my tau collection in battle yet, but I'm keen to make an auxiliaries-heavy list work given that I have about 40 kroot, 10 hounds, a shaper, and 2 krootox in my collection.

Any thoughts on how to get the most out of our auxiliary units? Dal'yth seems like it should be the obvious choice, but I'm wondering if it's a bit of a trap. Kroot benefitting from Kauyon seems okay, but strike teams probably do suicidal first turn forward sprints better. The warlord trait is also okay (let kroot/vespids benefit from markerlights) is also okay, but the short range means I'd have to clump together any units that I want to benefit from it. And the Outflank strat, while flavorful, seems like it would be way more useful for non-auxiliaries given that kroot have their scout move and vespid can deepstrike. Basically, it seems like Dal'yth has to "use up" its warlord trait and sept trait slots to give units benefits that armies without auxiliaries already have to begin with. And investing heavily into buffs for kroot/vespid seems like it detracts from the advantage of their low base cost. I like that my kroot seem to be pretty good at surging forward or sitting back and countercharging. I don't know if I care all that much about letting the kroot shoot slightly better.

Seems like I might be better off going with a sept that isn't afraid to throw some of its fire warriors and battle suits forward so that I can get the most out of the kroots' melee abilities?

Also, does it seem like the "2-3" in the Disengagement Protocols custom sept trait might be a typo? Seems weird that 2, 3, and 6 are the numbers that matter, not 2-5 and 6.

The way I see it. Any well designed 9th edition list these days will play the secondaries well no matter what the opponent do. So its also about how well we play the primaries. And from what I have observed, Tau have problems holding onto mid board objectives.

We can easily shoot someone off an exposed objective, but we can't hold on to it if its empty. And in a game where its sticky objectives, even shooting a unit off that objective means it still belongs to our opponent.

We could possibly keep on advancing cheap kroot or even breacher team or strike team onto a midpoint. But again, lets not kid ourselves, they are not going to hold onto a midpoint objective if they get shot and then charged by anything decent.

I suppose we could play the denial strategy and the trading game. Kroot are cheap. So keep on shooting units off midpoint objectives and then advancing kroot onto them. But this then ends up being a low scoring point game. And well, some people don't like that. They want to be able to score well too.

So, thoughts about what to do about primaries? I mean, before people jump in to say Tau are OP, S tier and what not, they have to be able to compete in Primary objectives. If Tau lists at most only achieve parity on primaries, not sure if they can be considered "S" tier.

Right now, I don't have much problems designing a list that ticks all the boxes on secondaries. But primaries are going to be a bit of a challenge. Hence my post above about using Riptides or even a stormsurge to stand on a midpoint objective with their huge bulk.

Enforcer commander alongside a crisis team with shield drones

Enforcer can give objective secured to the crisis unit and the shield drones provide tanky ablative wounds to the crisis team as well as extra models for determining control of the objective. Give those crisis suits a couple flamers and a burst cannon and anything which gets close is toast, while the enforcer commander can be equipped with high damage weapons like plasma and fusion to deal with more heavily armoured threats.

A unit of 3 crisis with 2 flamers, a burst cannon and an ewo, 1 with iridium, with 6 shield drones is 227 points. That is 9 objective secured models with a total of 24 wounds. If you combine it with a custom sept with the "battlesuits count as X models for controlling objectives" trait then it becomes 15 objective secured models. You can also use bodyguards to make the commander untargetable by ranged attacks at the cost of 15 extra points.

On overwatch they put out 6d6+6 (average of 27) autohits from the flamers, and with the ewo will average 6 hits from the burst cannons. So that is around 27 s4 hits and 6 s5 hits. Under mont'ka, those hits are also likely to be ap-1 and reroll 1s to wound. If the enemy survives the overwatch and gets into combat they then have to get through the drones before they can actually cause meaningful casualties (drones don't count for morale checks, so allocate attacks to them first), and come your next turn you open up on them with your guns again, this time hitting on 4s with the burst cannons (and if Farsight Enclaves then you get +1 to hit as the enemy is within 12")

Or load up 3 units of fire warriors in devilfish, 1 also with a fireblade, in mont'ka philosophy. Pregame you have the 9" move, then 1st turn you pop combat debarkation to allow 3 devilfish to move before units disembark, giving you an extra 12" plus 3" disembark (assuming you get 1st turn, reduce move as appropriate if going 2nd and devilfish got shot). Put the fire warriors behind the devilfish on the objective and use the fish to block attack angles, similar to the old fish of fury tactic. You can also use on-board sensors strat to get re-roll 1s to hit with any fire warrior squads within 6" of the chosen devilfish against a single enemy unit on that turn (as the fireblade won't have been able to use their command action due to being in the devilfish in the command phase). This combos nicely with the Decisive Action secondary objective if you can grab half of the objectives on the board to get you an extra 4 VPs right off the bat as that secondary triggers at the end of your turn. There are very few objectives you cannot grab turn 1 using this tactic.

EDIT: Looking through the strats to see which ones leap out and what kind of usage you can get from them.

Recon Sweep I think is very good. 1CP for effectively JSJ for pathfinders when using their markerlights, as well as a +1 to the markerlight roll (so getting tokens on a 2+ rather than a 3+). Very nice for keeping your markerlights alive by allowing you to make use of obscuring cover after they have done their job. Without this strat, I'm not sure I see pathfinders as particularly being worth it over Marker Drones. We only need 1 markerlight per unit shooting at an enemy now, so a couple of minimum-small units of marker drones who are faster than pathfinders and can fly, as well as being tougher than pathfinders seems to be the better choice.

Orbital Ion Beam I can see some use for this as a kind of area denial weapon. Put the line just in front of one of your units on an objective (or in front of where your unit will be after you move that turn), such that an enemy which charges you will have to be in the path of the beam come your next command phase. Might make your opponent think twice about charging, especially if the unit on that objective can put out some high damage overwatch (crisis team). 2cp is maybe a bit pricy but deterring an enemy charge could be worth it in certain situations. Can also be used to make sure that an enemy may be hurt if they move to claim an unclaimed objective.

Strike and Fade. 1/2cp for JSJ on jet pack units. Speaks for itself.

Backup AI: 1cp to count as being the full-wounds bracket. Very good for getting that final turn of shooting from your big suits or hammerhead before it bites the dust.

Counterfire Defence System: reduce damage of an attack to 1 when it is allocated to a model with the CDS keyword in the enemy shooting phase. Combining this with the Solid-Image Projection Unit relic (4+ invulnerable save, reduce damage of first unsaved attack per turn to 0, does not replace any wargear so saves you a hardpoint by not having to buying a shield generator) and the Stimm Injectors prototype system can make for a very tanky commander, especially if said commander is in Enforcer armour for natural -1 damage. As there's no restriction on which attack this can be used on, like there is with the SIPU, this allows you to absorb small arms fire intended to trigger the SIPU and still have damage mitigation in your pocket to tank a lascannon and the like.

EDIT 2: Found something which will likely need an FAQ. The Point-Blank Volley strat, used at the beginning of the shooting phase, makes pulse blasters/rifles/carbines count as pistol 2 for a unit in engagement range of an enemy. The Relentless Fusillade strat, used when a strike team is selected to shoot, says that pulse rifles make double the number of attacks rather than following the normal rules for rapid fire weapons, as well as increasing AP by 1. So, what happens if you use both of these strats on the same unit? RAW I think it will be pistol 4 pulse rifles as you are satisfying the "not follow normal rules for rapid fire weapons" part of Relentless Fusillade when they become Pistol 2, even though I doubt that is the RAI.

EDIT 3: Oof, the Skyray is a monster when attacking aircraft. +2 to the hit roll, re-roll damage, and a single re-roll to hit from the targeting array. Plus if you hit their aircraft with a markerlight you can use Frequency Lock strat to attack from out of LOS and get +1 to wound which will most likely put you at 2+ to wound.

On a slight side note on this, I am tempted to use the manta strike for drones into battle in a couple of cases.

I have been in a couple of situatiuons where i may be able to fit most but not all models in a deployment placement.

Now the new marksman unit also includes 3 sniper drones (for 70 pts) and the drones have manta strike.

It is tempting, if ever in that situation where i may fit 1 small infantry unit in deployment (but not a full squad), to run the new marksman unit in that spot and then hope you can manta the drones in within 6" of the marksman.
Idealy near an objective.

Got a 1500pt game coming up on Sunday against one of my regular mates, could really use some advice on the list and general tactics as
- a: It's my first time ever using Tau
- b: I haven't played a game of 9th in almost a year, so pretty rusty.

I highly suspect he'll be bringing Custodes. His list against a BT/DW force yesterday consisted of:

Blade Champion
Shield Captain
Allarus Captain

8x Custodians
5x Custodians
4x Prosecutors
5x Sagittarum

3x Allarus
Contemptor Galatus
Allarus Vexilla

3x Venatari
5x Witchseekers

Now this is a 2k list so he won't be using all of this but I think his general tactic is to apply multiple buffs to a select number of units (mainly the Allarus and 8x Guardians) to render them very resilient. With this in mind I've come up with the following list.

Cadre Fireblade
Enforcer Commander - Precision of the Hunter, Missile Pod, Plasma Rifle, Thermo Projector, Onager Gauntlet, 2x Shield Drones

10x Breachers
10x Pulse Rifles - 1x Marker Drone
10x Pulse Rifles - 1x Marker Drone

3x Crisis Suits - CIB, Missiles, Plasma, Shield Generator, 2x Marker Drones, 3x Shield Drones
3x Crisis Suits - Burst Cannon, 2x Flamers, Shield Generator, 4x Shield Drones
Firesight Marksman - 3x Sniper Drones

2x Broadsides - HRR, SMS, 2x Marker Drones, 2x Shield Drones
Hammerhead - Accelerator Cannons

2x Remora Drones

Anyone have any thoughts on general tactics, strats, Prototype Systems, etc?

Your list looks pretty good to me.

You've made the most melee oriented commander possible, I see. The onager gives you powerful punches but you still only have 4 attacks which are hitting on 3+ (reroll from the warlord trait) with it. I'm not familiar with Custodes outside of their general niche (small number of high wound, high armour models, with lots of invulnerable saves right?), but if they have access to abilities or strats which impose negative hit modifiers, your onager punches may end up swinging at shadows. You'll have the thermo attacks on top of that but one thing to keep in mind is that, raw, the thermo needs to roll to hit with both of its profiles, so it will also be affected by negative hit modifiers as well as overwatch 6s. I expect that to get faq'd at some point. Until then I'm not sure that the thermo projector is worth the points.
Also, even with those S12 attacks and the bonus thermo attacks, trying to go toe to toe with custodes seems unwise. The units you could go toe to toe with in melee (Prosecutors, basically, as you probably don't want to eat witchseeker overwatch) will most likely be dead before you get there and trying to go toe-to-toe with the other units (even just Custodian Guard) is likely to end in death as they will carve through your shield drones very quickly with lots of 2 damage attacks and then begin to make mincemeat of the commander, even with the -1 damage from enforcer armour. You have the mobility to evade them, even with an enforcer commander, so I think swapping the Onager for a more defensive relic to keep your commander alive and in the fight and able to shoot might possibly be a better bet. But then again, those S12 attacks might be the difference between clearing an objective near the end of the game and not.

You have a nice number of markerlights scattered throughout the list. That's a smart way of doing it to keep them alive and increase the odds you'll have a markerlight in range and Los of the target you want to paint.

I'd recommend putting stabilised optics on your broadsides. They're free and allow you to ignore the penalty to shooting heavy weapons on the move and you currently have their second hardpoint unoccupied (the twin sms only takes up one slot). This allows you to move around and get LOS on enemies without sacrificing your accuracy, which I think is more useful than the "6s to hit auto wound" of the ATS.

Relic-wise I like the Puretide Chip, Onager and SIPU.
The Puretide chip gives CP refund rolls on some useful strats (Battle Tactics and Epic Deeds) and if you combine it with the Vior'la sept trait (CP refund rolls on Strategic Ploys and Wargear) you have refunds for every type of stratagem. That helps you really be able to utilise the stratagems by squeezing out every available CP over the course of the battle.
Onager is, as is plain from its statline, great for fisting. It is held back a bit by 3+ to hit and only 4 attacks though.
And the SIPU on an Enforcer combined with CDS, Shield Drones and Stimms can make for a filthy tank character, and still with 3 hardpoints left for guns.
I can see some use for Ohr'Tu's Lantern on a fireblade if he is sitting back with a squad of fire warriors. Turning one markerlight into 6 (so averaging 4 markerlight tokens) can be great if you want to mass firepower from multiple units onto one target (as per RAW I think all the markerlight tokens of the Lantern have to be assigned to the same target). This could combo very nicely with the T'au sept Focused Fire stratagem (+1 to wound rolls for core units shooting at a specified enemy unit which already lost a wound that turn) to take down very tough targets. But you could accomplish the same thing with individual markerlights spread around without the limitations and not use up your relic choice.
The Advanced EM Scrambler can be very useful if there is an enemy unit which relies on auras to be effective, either defensively or offensively, by not allowing said unit to benefit from them. The 6" range for this effect is a problem, though, as it is used in the command phase.
The Beg'el Hunter's Plate is nice, too. +1 to armour saving throws and 5+ FNP. Not one turn only like the Stimm injector FNP, and +1 to armour saves allows you to take AP-1 hits on your enforcer or iridium suits like they were AP0. Not sure whether I would take this over the SIPU, though. A 5+ FNP per point of damage vs totally ignore damage of first unsaved hit per turn.

What were you thinking with regards to Sept?

Bork'an is very strong for the bonus range. 20" rapid fire range on Fire Warriors is nice, as is 12"/18" range Breachers (though that 12" still puts you in easy charge range). The reduce strength of ranged attacks by 1 against vehicles and battlesuits (provided attack has S7 or less) is also quite nice but not sure how much effective use it will get against Custodes as there is a limited amount of their weaponry that sits at the breakpoints (S5 for suits, S7 for vehicles). It would make their basic guns a lot less effective against your Hammerhead (S4 down to S3), though. Bork'an also has what is likely to be a very useful sept stratagem in this match-up, allowing you to give a single model's weapon the ignore invulnerable save ability (ideal for giving your broadside railguns that extra killing power against targets with invulnerable saves). It is also an epic deed strat, so if you take an extra relic and put the Puretide Chip on your fireblade, you have a 3+ refund for CPs on it.

Farsight is also very reliable. Automatic markerlights when targeting anything within 12", plus a re-roll to a single wound roll when resolving a units attacks (so you don't roll that annoying one to wound with your railgun, for example). Their sept strat is very powerful but also situational as it triggers on a unit entering by manta strike or homing beacon. But it does mean that on the turn you arrive you have the best possible chance of inflicting the damage you want. If you don't go Farsight, you can still do a lesser version of this with the Drop Threat Acquisition strat, which gives hit re-rolls on manta strike/homing beacon arrival.

With careful play in positioning, Vior'la could be a useful sept for their Sept stratagem. 6s to wound triggering a mortal wound (max 6) in addition to normal damage when shooting the closest eligible target in the shooting phase. Normally flamers and burst cannons are gonna be bouncing off custodian guard (~3 wounds total, so one dead guardian), but with this strat you'll be putting out 6 mortal wounds on average rolls (6 is also the maximum allowed by the strat), in addition to normal damage. That is an extra two dead custodian guards for the price of 2CP, an effective tripling of your lethality. These calculations all assumed re-roll 1s to hit from a nearby commander as well as a markerlight for +1 to hit. And bear in mind, you can use this strat in your shooting phase on that crisis team when it is engaged and whaddaya know? The unit engaged with them is the closest eligible unit. Enjoy toasty death goldboys.

EDIT: Wow I made a lot of edits.

Found another rules interaction which will probably need an FAQ/Errata. RAW I believe you can pop the Combat Debarkation strat, then get onto the devilfish, have it move and then disembark that same turn. Normally only units which start their movement phase embarked can disembark, but the wording of the strat says "any units embarked within can disembark" after the devilfish completes its normal move action. So you can have your PEN equipped Fireblade start outside the devilfish for the CP refund roll when the strat is played, then he can hop on board, ride to the destination and hop out with the fire warrior squad. This makes that strat incredible for repositioning fire warrior teams without losing any firepower as they can, in practice, never have to spend a shooting phase aboard their transport, provided you have the CP to spend (which is 1CP). Either the wording needs to change to eliminate this loophole or I think that strat needs to go up in cost. Until then? Fish of Fury is back, baby.

Bloody hell thanks for the detailed response

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Your list looks pretty good to me.

You've made the most melee oriented commander possible, I see. The onager gives you powerful punches but you still only have 4 attacks which are hitting on 3+ (reroll from the warlord trait) with it. I'm not familiar with Custodes outside of their general niche (small number of high wound, high armour models, with lots of invulnerable saves right?), but if they have access to abilities or strats which impose negative hit modifiers, your onager punches may end up swinging at shadows. You'll have the thermo attacks on top of that but one thing to keep in mind is that, raw, the thermo needs to roll to hit with both of its profiles, so it will also be affected by negative hit modifiers as well as overwatch 6s. I expect that to get faq'd at some point. Until then I'm not sure that the thermo projector is worth the points.
Also, even with those S12 attacks and the bonus thermo attacks, trying to go toe to toe with custodes seems unwise. The units you could go toe to toe with in melee (Prosecutors, basically, as you probably don't want to eat witchseeker overwatch) will most likely be dead before you get there and trying to go toe-to-toe with the other units (even just Custodian Guard) is likely to end in death as they will carve through your shield drones very quickly with lots of 2 damage attacks and then begin to make mincemeat of the commander, even with the -1 damage from enforcer armour. You have the mobility to evade them, even with an enforcer commander, so I think swapping the Onager for a more defensive relic to keep your commander alive and in the fight and able to shoot might possibly be a better bet. But then again, those S12 attacks might be the difference between clearing an objective near the end of the game and not.

You have a nice number of markerlights scattered throughout the list. That's a smart way of doing it to keep them alive and increase the odds you'll have a markerlight in range and Los of the target you want to paint.

I'd recommend putting stabilised optics on your broadsides. They're free and allow you to ignore the penalty to shooting heavy weapons on the move and you currently have their second hardpoint unoccupied (the twin sms only takes up one slot). This allows you to move around and get LOS on enemies without sacrificing your accuracy, which I think is more useful than the "6s to hit auto wound" of the ATS.

Thanks for the point with the Broadsides, I'd also forgotten to add the SMS so had to drop a Shield Drone from the Commander to fit the points. I suspect he may use SoS squads to hold objectives so helpful to be able to flush them out with the SMSs.

Relic-wise I like the Puretide Chip, Onager and SIPU.
The Puretide chip gives CP refund rolls on some useful strats (Battle Tactics and Epic Deeds) and if you combine it with the Vior'la sept trait (CP refund rolls on Strategic Ploys and Wargear) you have refunds for every type of stratagem. That helps you really be able to utilise the stratagems by squeezing out every available CP over the course of the battle.
Onager is, as is plain from its statline, great for fisting. It is held back a bit by 3+ to hit and only 4 attacks though.
And the SIPU on an Enforcer combined with CDS, Shield Drones and Stimms can make for a filthy tank character, and still with 3 hardpoints left for guns.
I can see some use for Ohr'Tu's Lantern on a fireblade if he is sitting back with a squad of fire warriors. Turning one markerlight into 6 (so averaging 4 markerlight tokens) can be great if you want to mass firepower from multiple units onto one target (as per RAW I think all the markerlight tokens of the Lantern have to be assigned to the same target). This could combo very nicely with the T'au sept Focused Fire stratagem (+1 to wound rolls for core units shooting at a specified enemy unit which already lost a wound that turn) to take down very tough targets. But you could accomplish the same thing with individual markerlights spread around without the limitations and not use up your relic choice.
The Advanced EM Scrambler can be very useful if there is an enemy unit which relies on auras to be effective, either defensively or offensively, by not allowing said unit to benefit from them. The 6" range for this effect is a problem, though, as it is used in the command phase.
The Beg'el Hunter's Plate is nice, too. +1 to armour saving throws and 5+ FNP. Not one turn only like the Stimm injector FNP, and +1 to armour saves allows you to take AP-1 hits on your enforcer or iridium suits like they were AP0. Not sure whether I would take this over the SIPU, though. A 5+ FNP per point of damage vs totally ignore damage of first unsaved hit per turn.

I've never been a fan of using a relic slot just for a CP refund. However I may pay the CP and put the PEN on the Fireblade.

What were you thinking with regards to Sept?

Bork'an is very strong for the bonus range. 20" rapid fire range on Fire Warriors is nice, as is 12"/18" range Breachers (though that 12" still puts you in easy charge range). The reduce strength of ranged attacks by 1 against vehicles and battlesuits (provided attack has S7 or less) is also quite nice but not sure how much effective use it will get against Custodes as there is a limited amount of their weaponry that sits at the breakpoints (S5 for suits, S7 for vehicles). It would make their basic guns a lot less effective against your Hammerhead (S4 down to S3), though. Bork'an also has what is likely to be a very useful sept stratagem in this match-up, allowing you to give a single model's weapon the ignore invulnerable save ability (ideal for giving your broadside railguns that extra killing power against targets with invulnerable saves). It is also an epic deed strat, so if you take an extra relic and put the Puretide Chip on your fireblade, you have a 3+ refund for CPs on it.

Farsight is also very reliable. Automatic markerlights when targeting anything within 12", plus a re-roll to a single wound roll when resolving a units attacks (so you don't roll that annoying one to wound with your railgun, for example). Their sept strat is very powerful but also situational as it triggers on a unit entering by manta strike or homing beacon. But it does mean that on the turn you arrive you have the best possible chance of inflicting the damage you want. Combine it with Strike and Fade (move 6" after shooting) to really mess with the opponent by dropping in close enough for all your guns to fire, attacking with full rerolls on hits and wounds and then scuttling away 6". If you don't go Farsight, you can still do a lesser version of this with the Drop Threat Acquisition strat, which gives hit re-rolls on manta strike/homing beacon arrival.

With careful play in positioning, Vior'la could be a useful sept for their Sept stratagem. 6s to wound triggering a mortal wound (max 6) in addition to normal damage when shooting the closest eligible target in the shooting phase. Normally flamers and burst cannons are gonna be bouncing off custodian guard (~3 wounds total, so one dead guardian), but with this strat you'll be putting out 6 mortal wounds on average rolls (6 is also the maximum allowed by the strat), in addition to normal damage. That is an extra two dead custodian guards for the price of 2CP, an effective tripling of your lethality. These calculations all assumed re-roll 1s to hit from a nearby commander as well as a markerlight for +1 to hit. And bear in mind, you can use this strat in your shooting phase on that crisis team when it is engaged and whaddaya know? The unit engaged with them is the closest eligible unit. Enjoy toasty death goldboys.

Ah, beat me to it. I was thinking either Enclaves or Bork'an for those reasons. Enclaves in particular for the Flamer Crisis team. Drop them in with 6D6 hits rerolling failed wounds is bound to do at least a couple of wounds. If they fail then they can at least try to tie up a unit with their 4++.

I hadn't considered Vior'la. That strat is definitely worth considering.

EDIT: Wow I made a lot of edits.

Found another rules interaction which will probably need an FAQ/Errata. RAW I believe you can pop the Combat Debarkation strat, then get onto the devilfish, have it move and then disembark that same turn. Normally only units which start their movement phase embarked can disembark, but the wording of the strat says "any units embarked within can disembark" after the devilfish completes its normal move action. So you can have your PEN equipped Fireblade start outside the devilfish for the CP refund roll when the strat is played, then he can hop on board, ride to the destination and hop out with the fire warrior squad. This makes that strat incredible for repositioning fire warrior teams without losing any firepower as they can, in practice, never have to spend a shooting phase aboard their transport, provided you have the CP to spend (which is 1CP). Either the wording needs to change to eliminate this loophole or I think that strat needs to go up in cost. Until then? Fish of Fury is back, baby.

No problem!

A fair amount of that is just my stream of consciousness from looking through the book haha. Still slowly putting the pieces together with regards to the codex, myself.

Still, I hope there is some useful stuff in there.

Ooh that's a good spot. I do have a Devilfish but I generally thought you need at least 2 to get the most out of them.

I would agree, especially with that strat as it affects 3 devilfish if used during the particular turns of your philosophy (1-3 for Mont'ka, 4-6 for Kauyon). 1CP to do it with 1 devilfish is okay, but 1 CP to do it with 3 is incredible.

I don't believe you can fire and fade if you arrived from reserves. They have really been cutting down on that kind of thing and I believe its specifically outlawed in the core rules. Does the Tau strat have a specific exemption? I'll admit I don't have the book yet.

Can you stack the CP regen from the warlord trait/relic with an Ethereal?

bmsattler wrote:
I don't believe you can fire and fade if you arrived from reserves. They have really been cutting down on that kind of thing and I believe its specifically outlawed in the core rules. Does the Tau strat have a specific exemption? I'll admit I don't have the book yet.

Can you stack the CP regen from the warlord trait/relic with an Ethereal?

Ah, you are correct on Strike and Fade. Good catch. I'm a new return to 40K with 9th (fell out in 7th), so not massively familiar with the core rules but I know Tau I'll edit that out my post!

You cannot stack the CP gain from the Ethereal invocation with CP refund relics/traits. There is nothing which exempts it from the 1CP gain/refund (in addition to the +1 for battle forged) per battle round. So if you're planning on using an Ethereal and taking the CP gain invocation, you can possibly leave CP regen stuff at home. Though the Ethereal is a one per round 3+ roll (except for Aun/va and Aun'shi who are 2+), whereas with the relic and/or trait, you roll for each CP you spend and with the same 3+ chance until you get it. So if you use more than one stratagem that you can roll to refund per round, or use a strat which costs more than one CP, you have a better chance of getting that CP than with a standard Ethereal.

Remember that the Neurochip and Academy Luminary only affect specific categories of strats. Yes they’re reliable in their niche but the invocation is also just an addition, not a refund.

Subtle differences, but they are important.

The CP invocation is very nice. The problem is that it competes with 5+++ and -1 hit which are, imo, a bigger deal when you can get CP from other sources like the Neurochip.

And running 2 ethereals to get all of them feels like to much.

So I'm trying to round out my (very) limited Tau army without having to purchase too much. It's set up as follows currently..

Farsight
Enforcer, Onager, neutro flamer, CIB, MP, shield

10 breachers, guardian
10 breachers, guardian
10 fire warriors, SMS turret
2 devilfish with SMS

2 units 3 stealth suits, beacon, marker drone
ghostkeel, all fusion, flare launcher
riptide, ion, SMS, 2 shielded missiles

crisis team (5), mixed weaponry and shield drones.

Have a couple hundred points leftover and the following models..

Coldstar commander (now worthlessly equipped with triple fusion/shield), waiting for fusion blades to return
Single broadside with HYMP
Pathfinders with 2 rail rifles
bunch of drones unbuilt
4 crisis suits, 1 being dual fusion, 3 unbuilt.
2 Piranhas

I'm not against picking up more units (adding to broadsides if that's a good option), but also would be good to use what I have. I am wondering if adding some lowly Kroot to do actions would be good, while leaving my actual tau to be all combat oriented.

Thoughts?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In addition, thinking of making use of drop zone clear strat with a unit of crisis. Wondering should I opt for 3 to make it cheaper CP wise, or go 5 to maximize the firepower and eat the additional CP. I'm assuming gun drones attached will also benefit from the strat, in which case each suit will be accompanied by 1 shield and gun drone.

The riptide and broadside should have bits to give you options for your suits. I'm guessing from your comment about your coldstar that you never magnetized your models? You may want to try.

If you do decide to magnetize, get a couple skyrays.

One thing that is easy to overlook is that the Thermoneutronic Projector replaces a flamer, but does not have the auto-hits ability of a flamer (in shooting or in melee). Just a heads up in case you didn't spot that.

Drones do not benefit from Drop Zone Clear, or the generic Drop Threat Acquisition strat. Both target a BATTLESUIT unit (which does include the drones in the unit), but only grants re-rolls each time a BATTLESUIT model makes a ranged attack. So, no re-rolls for the drones (sad beep-boop noises).

Tau Noob here: Does 'The Eight' still have rules? Can I take it with the new codex?

Is it terrible or passable enough I could build a theme-y army around?

The Eight are once again without rules.

 Ordana wrote:
The CP invocation is very nice. The problem is that it competes with 5+++ and -1 hit which are, imo, a bigger deal when you can get CP from other sources like the Neurochip.

And running 2 ethereals to get all of them feels like to much.

This is why I have been toying with the idea of spending the relic on the humble stave.
One ethereal, can cast two invocations and do it on a 2+. More reliable than PEN, the first time you do it he's paid the relic off, and each subsequent one is gravy.

Then we can get either the 5+++ or the -1 on a 2+ as well. (I'm playing Sa'cea so the 5+++ is more value to me)

 Talurit wrote:

 Ordana wrote:
The CP invocation is very nice. The problem is that it competes with 5+++ and -1 hit which are, imo, a bigger deal when you can get CP from other sources like the Neurochip.

And running 2 ethereals to get all of them feels like to much.

This is why I have been toying with the idea of spending the relic on the humble stave.
One ethereal, can cast two invocations and do it on a 2+. More reliable than PEN, the first time you do it he's paid the relic off, and each subsequent one is gravy.

Then we can get either the 5+++ or the -1 on a 2+ as well. (I'm playing Sa'cea so the 5+++ is more value to me)

Or you take both, use the chip for CP and do both the 5+++ and -1 hit.

Stupid question, but does anyone have suggestions on where to find FW stuff during the looong stretches when they're sold out? I really want a pair of Tetras, but FW is sold out and Ebay doesn't have any not marked up 200%.

I'm up for alternatives too at this point.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Stupid question, but does anyone have suggestions on where to find FW stuff during the looong stretches when they're sold out? I really want a pair of Tetras, but FW is sold out and Ebay doesn't have any not marked up 200%.

I'm up for alternatives too at this point.

You can always use some 3d alternatives.
The forgeworld TX7 Hammerhead Gunship (Legendary) was soldout and no longer in production, but i really like the turret options (visually) so i have some being 3d printed at the moment.
Think there are some goood tetras, and other forgeworld replacements for other armies, out there that I think look better.

Edit
While tehre are places that offer the actual 3D pritned custom models (can be found all over the web in lists by seacring forge world alternatives) i would perfer the desgin files to 3D print at lesuire.
On the cults3d website there are STL files that can be bought to be printed as many times as you like.
The user 'Valenir' has a 'my tetra' that looks good (no people inside so you can make your own to fit).

If you are looking for a cheap manta the the same person has a 'my manta' for a smidge over £50.
It is the design files to build your very own WH40K scale manta (not epic but full 40K scale).
For the cost of a 3D printer and the designs and the 3D printer fillament / resin you could build as many tau mantas as you could want .... or had time to assemble, as each one has over 100 parts.
All for less than the FW cost.
You can also hire someone else to print the parts fro you and pst them to you for less than FW.

I thiink I would actually perffer that, as I have seen some youtube videos of people trying to build that think from FW and having huge problems with the FW resin and warping, where as it would be nice to have everything just fit and if you wanted to modify it (for LEDs or whatever) you could happliy modify a copy of the STL or print a part and hack away, with the knowledge that if anything went wrong you can just print another replacement part.

I havent really looked at tetras but that could be a handy option if they come in squads of more than 1, as that way you could easily and cheaply get a full squad?
If you contact the creator directly im sure you could ask them to design a FW legacey TX42 Piranha unit (as that would match the look of the tetras nicely and make them fit into the army better).

I do think FW days are numberd when it comes to the large scale models that are known for having issues, unless FW get into selling STL files or better 3D printed units (not resin cast) for the large scales.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Stupid question, but does anyone have suggestions on where to find FW stuff during the looong stretches when they're sold out? I really want a pair of Tetras, but FW is sold out and Ebay doesn't have any not marked up 200%.

I'm up for alternatives too at this point.

You could do piranhas with marker drones in places of the normal gun drones?