feugan wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 CMLR wrote:
I'm starting to think: what if the whip elf is a Umbraneth Shadowaelf?

If it is, then Malerions elves are going to be very disappointing, seeing as it looks just like a Daughters of Khaine model.

‘Gloomineth Edgelords’ or bust.

If they end up being called Umbraneth, it will have been a grievously missed opportunity.

Umbraneth is a established name already...

https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/4941

 Ghaz wrote:

feugan wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 CMLR wrote:
I'm starting to think: what if the whip elf is a Umbraneth Shadowaelf?

If it is, then Malerions elves are going to be very disappointing, seeing as it looks just like a Daughters of Khaine model.

‘Gloomineth Edgelords’ or bust.

If they end up being called Umbraneth, it will have been a grievously missed opportunity.

Umbraneth is a established name already...

https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/4941

Spoiler:

Nah, that was fake. Other people have said that they saw that article when it went up and it didn’t have Umbraneth in it, and that specific photo is the only photo anywhere with Umbraneth in it, there are no corroborating screenshots, it’s just that one faked photo that did the rounds. And if I recall correctly someone on Reddit or 4chan or something admitted faking it, but I don’t even know where I’d start trying to find that.

Voss wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 DivineVisitor wrote:
Guardians are usually a little more than normal citizens though.

Aren't Guardians just another path than an Eldar can take, so you're just as likely to have a Guardian who used to be a Swooping Hawk as you are a Guardian who used to be a barista?

Well, yes to the second. But no to the first.

Sourcing back to the original Craftworlds write-up:
"we are not immediately concerned with these other Eldar [basically, non-Warrior or Seer paths] as their part on the battlefield is not directly linked to their place on the Eldar Path. Regardless of the their current vocation, all Eldar are trained to take their position in the Eldar armies when needed. The serve in the Guardians as combat troops, weapon crews, etc... If danger is sufficiently pressing, every Eldar on a Craftworld can pick up a gun and rally to his or her designated Guardian unit"

So ex-Aspect Warriors and baristas are both likely to turn up as Guardians. But everybody is taught 'shoot gun.'
The bit even GW tends to forget is Guardians aren't there to bulk out the Craftworld armies if they need to go out and murder some fools (because Farseer Bob found some important crux of fate), they're part of the of the Craftworld's defense.

Yup, Guaridans are technically only supposed to be used in an emergency. You don't want to lose civilians. There are, after all, not that many Eldar left. They were kinda the equivalent of the WH Fantasy High Elf citizen levy, just supposedly used very sparingly.

It's just that army composition rules don't care too much about that. I think Dire Avenger are supposed to be the most numerous Aspect Warriors and the ones who make up most of an actual army (that's why they were also a Troop option). All the special Craftworld armies (from 3rd edition onward) were more representative of actual Eldar armies than the actual generic army that could use so many Guardians.

A few more bits about the Warrior path: An Eldar who gets lost and stays on the Path of the Warrior (while being an Aspect Warrior) ends up as an Exarch. They can't change to another path ever again and become a permanent soldier, so to speak. Eldar Warlocks are psykers who did work a shift as an Aspect Warrior once. Phoenix Lords are technically just the longest lived Exarchs (the first Exarch of each warrior Path, with Karandras being the one exception). Over time their spirit settled into the armour and when they die the armour waits until it is picked up by another Eldar who puts it on and then kinda becomes possessed by that Phoenix Lord's spirit.

Man they really need to remake the rest of the Phoenix Lords. I was but a small boy when they were first introduced and spent most of my meagre income on marines, but I had a couple of Phoenix Lords and I absolutely loved the models for all of them, as well as the Gibbons art for each, and since they're recreating retro Gibbons art in miniature form this would be a great thing to see.

 Hellebore wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
The choice of an armored belly button for the female guardians is a bit odd...

It’s strange but certainly nothing new. Eldar armor has had belly buttons before. The new banshees have it too iirc

Boob and belly plates with button seem to be gws decision for female armour on Eldar going forward. Will be interesting to see if they continue onto the other plastic aspects.

What do you mean going forward? Eldar have had boob armor and belly plates since RT. They were present on the original Howling Banshee sculpts by Jes Goodwin. The belly button was even in his concept art for the them.

Mario wrote:

A few more bits about the Warrior path: An Eldar who gets lost and stays on the Path of the Warrior (while being an Aspect Warrior) ends up as an Exarch. They can't change to another path ever again and become a permanent soldier, so to speak. Eldar Warlocks are psykers who did work a shift as an Aspect Warrior once. Phoenix Lords are technically just the longest lived Exarchs (the first Exarch of each warrior Path, with Karandras being the one exception). Over time their spirit settled into the armour and when they die the armour waits until it is picked up by another Eldar who puts it on and then kinda becomes possessed by that Phoenix Lord's spirit.

One small correction: the suit doesn't wait if it has access to the webway. The suit will actively seek out a new Exarch to be its host.

Mario wrote:
Yup, Guaridans are technically only supposed to be used in an emergency. You don't want to lose civilians. There are, after all, not that many Eldar left. They were kinda the equivalent of the WH Fantasy High Elf citizen levy, just supposedly used very sparingly.

It's just that army composition rules don't care too much about that. I think Dire Avenger are supposed to be the most numerous Aspect Warriors and the ones who make up most of an actual army (that's why they were also a Troop option). All the special Craftworld armies (from 3rd edition onward) were more representative of actual Eldar armies than the actual generic army that could use so many Guardians.

All Eldar are technically only supposed to be used in an emergency. Guardians are still the mainstay unit for most craftworlds though. Dire Avenger are the most numerous Aspect Warriors, but they're still a minority compared to Guardians. This is from the 7E codex when DA were troops:

Among the ever-thinning ranks of the Eldar, Guardians remain the most numerous of a craftworld’s warriors. Yet they are not deployed idly, for every Eldar life is a precious thing, not to be squandered in pyrrhic victories or needless last stands.

Of course that varies by craftworld, so for somewhere like Iyanden you're more likely to see wraithguard than either guardians or DA. I think only Biel-Tan would justify more Dire Avengers than Guardians.

As a race Eldar are supposed to keep to the shadows, to make more surgical strikes rather than all out warfare and to try and manipulate a situation rather than get stuck in. So they are more likely to try and nudge a group of orks closer to an Imperial force so that the Imperials get caught up fighting Orks instead of striking deeper into territories that the Eldar don't want them in.



That said there are more than enough stories of them engaging in large scale full on combat and war on a galactic scale. They have titans and vast armies, they have mobile infantry forces and enough technology to engage in galactic warfare. They are a race of limited population growth, but they are still on the galactic scale of things so we are still talking VERY big numbers.

The real problem is that they reproduce at a slower rate so any loss is a much harder thing to recover from and compared to the other races they are limited in their ability to recover, to expand and to hold large swathes of territory. The only race in a similar position is Tau and they mostly get away with it only because they are out on the very fringe of the Imperium and basically got ignored for just long enough to establish themselves; but aren't a big enough thread compared ot the others that the Imperium can actually dedicate proper forces to them. If Chaos, Necrons, Orks and Tyranids took a holiday from waging war for a while, the Imperium would crush Tau in a moment.




What I find interesting at present is that Eldar might be due for a lore shift. They've been in the same "operating in the shadows" and "hiding/retreating/avoiding" kind of attitude for a long while. However with Necrons potentially reuniting, with the Imperium finding a Primarch; with Chaos cutting the Imperium almost in half; with Tyranids building a planet and eating their way into more and more of the Galaxy; with Tau expanding - basically everyone is on the rise (and mostly taking chunks out of abandoned systems or the Imperium) and I think Eldar will also start to shift to being more overt and more direct in combat.

That is a problem in general with 40k. The rules don't match the background, so playing a game doesn't feel much like something that could happen in the universe they've described.

I mean you can say that about most board games. It's always abstract. Warmachine never felt like real warmachine; infinity isn't real infinity; Risk is hardly like reality and chess is freaking heck a million miles from anything.

The lore will never appear on the tabletop when you're using a handful of models to represent VAST armies.

Well 40k games don't represent vast armies but tiny skirmish groups. Commando raids

tneva82 wrote:
Well 40k games don't represent vast armies but tiny skirmish groups. Commando raids

And that's why you can potentially have several Primarchs and a High Lord duking it out?

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Well 40k games don't represent vast armies but tiny skirmish groups. Commando raids

And that's why you can potentially have several Primarchs and a High Lord duking it out?

The other way to picture games of 40k is as a snapshot of the pivotal point of a larger battle. Off to either side of the table battle-lines stretch, but what you play is the key moment of a larger picture.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Well 40k games don't represent vast armies but tiny skirmish groups. Commando raids

And that's why you can potentially have several Primarchs and a High Lord duking it out?

It depends. Imo, a 40K game can represent a few different things. It can be a skirmish of a small force doing a surgical operation, it could be a slice of a much bigger battle but focusing on the primary area (justifying Primarchs and the like), or a small battle happening to the side of other battles in the area, making up a larger battle in pockets, etc.

It can be whatever you want it to be, really. Just gotta be creative.

EDIT: Nevelon you ninja’d me

I don't think that's strictly true about Guardians. They are supposed to be the citizen militia similar to the High Elves but they are still trained warriors. The archers and spearmen that make up the bulk of High Elf armies are used in the exact same way. They are still the basic troop types for a force, in the same way that Guardians are used within the Craftworld forces. Dire Avengers are more specialised as they are aspect warriors and act as more highly trained bastions that the Guardians work around.

 Nevelon wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Well 40k games don't represent vast armies but tiny skirmish groups. Commando raids

And that's why you can potentially have several Primarchs and a High Lord duking it out?

The other way to picture games of 40k is as a snapshot of the pivotal point of a larger battle. Off to either side of the table battle-lines stretch, but what you play is the key moment of a larger picture.

Eh that sill sort of fails because you've got aircraft and artillery and heroes and basic troops all lumped into a tiny space.

And that's before we even touch on armies like Tyranids who, in theory, should cover their whole deployment zone in models.


You can rationalise the game however you want because there's no set winning formula and between games what appears on the table might change how and what it could represent. A small skirmish, a little battle; a boarder war; a vast major clash; an insane world obliterating series of battles. However you imagine it fails.



You have to get into the feel. It's like how in RTS games on the PC you have barracks that train troops that are little bigger than the troops they spew out; yet in reality an infantry training centre would be huge; a tank manufactory big and comprised of multiple buildings; a mining site used to fun a war machine would be extensive etc.... Heck jump into Starcraft and you've got infantry and basic troops fighting alongside battleships

 Overread wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Well 40k games don't represent vast armies but tiny skirmish groups. Commando raids

And that's why you can potentially have several Primarchs and a High Lord duking it out?

The other way to picture games of 40k is as a snapshot of the pivotal point of a larger battle. Off to either side of the table battle-lines stretch, but what you play is the key moment of a larger picture.

Eh that sill sort of fails because you've got aircraft and artillery and heroes and basic troops all lumped into a tiny space.

And that's before we even touch on armies like Tyranids who, in theory, should cover their whole deployment zone in models.


You can rationalise the game however you want because there's no set winning formula and between games what appears on the table might change how and what it could represent. A small skirmish, a little battle; a boarder war; a vast major clash; an insane world obliterating series of battles. However you imagine it fails.



You have to get into the feel. It's like how in RTS games on the PC you have barracks that train troops that are little bigger than the troops they spew out; yet in reality an infantry training centre would be huge; a tank manufactory big and comprised of multiple buildings; a mining site used to fun a war machine would be extensive etc.... Heck jump into Starcraft and you've got infantry and basic troops fighting alongside battleships

My platoon of 20 dudes always had two aircraft flying overwatch and a artillery battery on call on every mission. Once we had a 2 star general tag along for funzies. We were just one small group operating as part of a much larger group over a fairly larger area. .

40k games are a pretty accurate representation of a snap shot of a larger operation, battle or war.

 Overread wrote:
I mean you can say that about most board games. It's always abstract. Warmachine never felt like real warmachine; infinity isn't real infinity; Risk is hardly like reality and chess is freaking heck a million miles from anything.

The lore will never appear on the tabletop when you're using a handful of models to represent VAST armies.

Well, it's not a board game though. Of course it's an abstraction, but I'm not sure the people making the game know what it's supposed to represent. Obviously the players don't, as can be seen by all the different opinions in the last few posts. But it's not like it's impossible. Lots of historical games manage to represent historical battles. Though I've never played the Lord of the Rings game, people say it feels like a good representation of the background. Warhammer 40k rules are just bad at representing the background.

The game Is just a glimpse of the universe and that is vastly different from one person to another. I mean how can a beer and pretzel game overbloated with rules be anything more than an attachment to the minis?

The minis represent the universe well and capture the grim dark feel most of the times and the game that goes with it is an extra but by no means represents the scale of interplanetary wars.

tneva82 wrote:
Well 40k games don't represent vast armies but tiny skirmish groups. Commando raids

I don't always skirmish but, when I do, I do it in multiple Titan-class vehicles.

 BrotherGecko wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Well 40k games don't represent vast armies but tiny skirmish groups. Commando raids

And that's why you can potentially have several Primarchs and a High Lord duking it out?

The other way to picture games of 40k is as a snapshot of the pivotal point of a larger battle. Off to either side of the table battle-lines stretch, but what you play is the key moment of a larger picture.

Eh that sill sort of fails because you've got aircraft and artillery and heroes and basic troops all lumped into a tiny space.

And that's before we even touch on armies like Tyranids who, in theory, should cover their whole deployment zone in models.


You can rationalise the game however you want because there's no set winning formula and between games what appears on the table might change how and what it could represent. A small skirmish, a little battle; a boarder war; a vast major clash; an insane world obliterating series of battles. However you imagine it fails.



You have to get into the feel. It's like how in RTS games on the PC you have barracks that train troops that are little bigger than the troops they spew out; yet in reality an infantry training centre would be huge; a tank manufactory big and comprised of multiple buildings; a mining site used to fun a war machine would be extensive etc.... Heck jump into Starcraft and you've got infantry and basic troops fighting alongside battleships

My platoon of 20 dudes always had two aircraft flying overwatch and a artillery battery on call on every mission. Once we had a 2 star general tag along for funzies. We were just one small group operating as part of a much larger group over a fairly larger area. .

40k games are a pretty accurate representation of a snap shot of a larger operation, battle or war.

The official GW rationale behind Titans and Primarchs taking part in 40K games is that each game is only a tiny part of a grand battlefield and it may so happen, that your little force has simply been thrown at the position the Primarch is at this moment of battle. I don't remember exactly, but officially the whole 40K game is just few minutes of real time.

What doesn't make any sense though is if the above is true, then every battle played with SM has to represent an entire chapter fighting on said grand battlefield, because chapter numbers never made any sense at all.

I think in the end the scale of GW games tends to be whack and not really make any sense. 40k made more sense as a skirmish game back in the days before baby sized walkers and large aircraft floating around.

I think that is the best justification there is, assuming the game is the critical moment in a larger battle, or a hand-picked force sent to the crucial point at the crucial moment to turn the tide.

So, most 40K battles involving Space Marines represent an entire company at least engaging in a huge pitched battle, in which most of them are casualties. So ever game with Space Marines pretty much eliminates a company at least as an effective fighting force.

For what it’s worth, this article sort of made a compelling case for why we should re-evaluate how we view models, terrain, and think of the battles on the tabletop in a different way.

Basically, because of how unrealistic the proportions are between vertical and horizontal dimensions, we should consider each model in 28 mm scale to be more of a token and terrain to be more of a token as well rather than apply true line of sight and considering each model to be one infantry on the battle, or even one vehicle.

https://www.wargaminghobby.com/article/what-is-the-scale-of-wargames-60.html

The official GW rationale behind Titans and Primarchs taking part in 40K games is that each game is only a tiny part of a grand battlefield and it may so happen, that your little force has simply been thrown at the position the Primarch is at this moment of battle

I honestly don't remember the last time GW provided an 'official rationale' on the battle scale. Its been a while- they did it a few times in notes and appendices for WFB, but largely shied away from it in 40k (it came up in RT and I think 3rd or 4th). Last few editions, I don't think they addressed it at all (mostly because whatever argument they used was going to be transparently be nonsense)

@macluvin- Rogue Trader had a good overview on that. It basically boiled down to 'weapon ranges (and table distances) are what they are to make the game more fun, not realistic'

 silent25 wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
The choice of an armored belly button for the female guardians is a bit odd...

It’s strange but certainly nothing new. Eldar armor has had belly buttons before. The new banshees have it too iirc

Boob and belly plates with button seem to be gws decision for female armour on Eldar going forward. Will be interesting to see if they continue onto the other plastic aspects.

What do you mean going forward? Eldar have had boob armor and belly plates since RT. They were present on the original Howling Banshee sculpts by Jes Goodwin. The belly button was even in his concept art for the them.

Spoiler:

I think what everyone is forgetting with the boob/belly button thing is that the eldar "armor" is basically a wetsuit. It then hardens when struck into armor, then goes back for maximum mobility. In theory one could give the male ones belly buttons too, but a thin gut is something generally more associated with females, and defined abs with men, which allows better differentiation on the tabletop.

 Overread wrote:

The real problem is that they reproduce at a slower rate so any loss is a much harder thing to recover from and compared to the other races they are limited in their ability to recover, to expand and to hold large swathes of territory.

With this in mind, is there a lore reason why Eldar don't make use of drones, automatons and other automated systems?

Even if they required some sort of supervision from living Eldar, these would surely allow for far fewer Eldar to risk their lives in a given battle?

Or, if that's off the table for some stupid reason, what about battlesuits? Machines that would enhance an individual Eldar's firepower whilst also protecting them. And don't mention bloody wraith-constructs because they don't count. Once an Eldar has been swept into a crystal matchbox, it's a little late to start protecting them.

I understand that an Eldar army sans actual Eldar would be a little odd, but (to me at least) it seems equally weird that the above don't seem to be used at all. Instead, Eldar continue to send militias with shotguns and paper mache armour into battle against armoured companies and wondering why they're a dying race.

The reason Eldar don't use robots and AI the way that, say Tau do, is because robot use was part of their social structure which led to their fall to Slaanesh. Once you can use a robot for war, why not also use it to mow the lawn, and do the dishes and all the work. Eldar 100% could automate everything, but that leads toward the hedonistic lifestyle that basically caused them to create Slaanesh.

So they avoid robot use. Even Wraiths, whilst being robotical, are controlled by the soulstones bound to them.


In that both Eldar and the Imperium are actually very similar. Both distrust thinking machines, but for different reasons. Eldar because they lead down a path of hedonistic lifestyle; Imperium because of the Men of Iron uprising.

I think part of the Guardian situation is the GrimDark paradox--If there's something that you only do in the most dire situations, like make your Guardians go out to war, because of the Grim Dark, you'll always be doing it.

The eldar still number in the billions if you factor in all the unnamed Craftworlds, exodite, harlis etc. So naturally they do everything in their power to avoid needing to dip into their "home guard" but there will always be situations where they've got no choice.

Every battle in 40k(tabletop) is worst case scenario. So inherently the game will skew towards that.

But the player also has some agency in list creation. If you don't want your CWE to use guardians, don't. If you want to have aspects & wraith constructs doin the dirty work, do it.

Racerguy180 wrote:
The eldar still number in the billions if you factor in all the unnamed Craftworlds, exodite, harlis etc. So naturally they do everything in their power to avoid needing to dip into their "home guard" but there will always be situations where they've got no choice.

Every battle in 40k(tabletop) is worst case scenario. So inherently the game will skew towards that.

But the player also has some agency in list creation. If you don't want your CWE to use guardians, don't. If you want to have aspects & wraith constructs doin the dirty work, do it.

All vehicle crew are Guardians. So far the only known Aspects that deal with vehicles are the Shining Spears and Crimson Hunters. If there are tank Aspects, we haven't seen them yet because GW hasn't made them up yet.

Titan Clans are in a separate category of their own.

Path of the Mon'keigh Wrench?

Assuming that Eldar get a fairly big release, as well as chaos, and maybe even tyranids... And as a bonus Guard get the rumoured new vehicle and a DKoK model expansion, and then finally squats get a bit of love.

If Marines were to get more models after this, what are people going to moan about being neglected?

This is half joking, but half serious, what model ranges would still be severely out of date or desperately need an upgrade of models?

To clarify, if you have had most of your range re-newed in the last 5 years, or because the models are fairly excellent still and it would be an absolute waste of designer time and factory time to update them, then the faction does not need a range re-fresh (Most of the Tau line is a prime example).

The only elements I can start to think of are past forces, such as renegades and heretics that are a faction as a whole that could do with some love (and are rumoured to be getting that), and then Tau auxiliaries, but arguably you could almost treat these as completely brand new factions. What else? Inquisitors?

From a glance, Tau seem to have a lot of stuff from the Cadian era (I'm not sure I've never really bought any Tau).

JWBS wrote:
From a glance, Tau seem to have a lot of stuff from the Cadian era (I'm not sure I've never really bought any Tau).

I don’t think Tau have anything that old except maybe Kroot. Which is mainly what Tau needs redoing, the kroot stuff and a relatively tiny amount of finecast.

I was thinking Kroot, Devilfish, xv8, firewarriors and pathfinders, but it seems the xv8 and fw / pf were updated at some point, but still look very close to the originals in some cases. I think the original kroot warriors stand up better than some of the updated stuff tbh.

JWBS wrote:
I was thinking Kroot, Devilfish, xv8, firewarriors and pathfinders, but it seems the xv8 and fw / pf were updated at some point, but still look very close to the originals in some cases. I think the original kroot warriors stand up better than some of the updated stuff tbh.

They’re like the new Guardians, the design is very similar but the new kits are much better. I could see an argument for the Devilfish but I don’t think any Eldar vehicles are being redone and they’d need it at least as much.

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
If Marines were to get more models after this, what are people going to moan about being neglected?

Tyranids (in the sense of missing opportunities to port remaining Finecast to plastic and/or refresh some of their older kits) and Dark Eldar (porting from Finecast and/or returning options which have been removed and/or adding new units)...

Am I right in thinking that, special characters aside, Orks only have two units left in finecast – Weirdboy and Tankbustas? Or have I forgotten something?

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Assuming that Eldar get a fairly big release, as well as chaos, and maybe even tyranids... And as a bonus Guard get the rumoured new vehicle and a DKoK model expansion, and then finally squats get a bit of love.

If Marines were to get more models after this, what are people going to moan about being neglected?

This is half joking, but half serious, what model ranges would still be severely out of date or desperately need an upgrade of models?

To clarify, if you have had most of your range re-newed in the last 5 years, or because the models are fairly excellent still and it would be an absolute waste of designer time and factory time to update them, then the faction does not need a range re-fresh (Most of the Tau line is a prime example).

The only elements I can start to think of are past forces, such as renegades and heretics that are a faction as a whole that could do with some love (and are rumoured to be getting that), and then Tau auxiliaries, but arguably you could almost treat these as completely brand new factions. What else? Inquisitors?

I know this seems like a dumb want/suggestion but knight household units that support the knights. Big stompy mecha armies are fun but if they had some house militia or the sacristian or however it's spelt support guys it might make them less of a one trick skew army.

 ProfSrlojohn wrote:

 silent25 wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
The choice of an armored belly button for the female guardians is a bit odd...

It’s strange but certainly nothing new. Eldar armor has had belly buttons before. The new banshees have it too iirc

Boob and belly plates with button seem to be gws decision for female armour on Eldar going forward. Will be interesting to see if they continue onto the other plastic aspects.

What do you mean going forward? Eldar have had boob armor and belly plates since RT. They were present on the original Howling Banshee sculpts by Jes Goodwin. The belly button was even in his concept art for the them.

Spoiler:

I think what everyone is forgetting with the boob/belly button thing is that the eldar "armor" is basically a wetsuit. It then hardens when struck into armor, then goes back for maximum mobility. In theory one could give the male ones belly buttons too, but a thin gut is something generally more associated with females, and defined abs with men, which allows better differentiation on the tabletop.

Now I want bellybuttons on all the Eldars...

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:

If Marines were to get more models after this, what are people going to moan about being neglected?

This is half joking, but half serious, what model ranges would still be severely out of date or desperately need an upgrade of models?

Ignoring hq and hero models...

Tyranids:
Gaunts are looking pretty dated
Lictor
genestealers
possibly Carnifex

Dark Eldar:
Mandrakes
Grotesques

Tau:
Vespid
Kroots (all need updating)

Orks:
Burna/Loota boys
Tankbustas

Imperial Guard:
infantry kits excepting Tempestus


I would argue that Imperial Guard and Tyranids need love the most after an Elder range update

 Grimdesign wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:

If Marines were to get more models after this, what are people going to moan about being neglected?

This is half joking, but half serious, what model ranges would still be severely out of date or desperately need an upgrade of models?

Ignoring hq and hero models...

Tyranids:
Gaunts are looking pretty dated
Lictor
genestealers
possibly Carnifex

Gaunts, Hormagaunts, Rippers, Lictors, Genestealers, Carnifexes and Biovores all date back to 4th edition 40k. I'd argue even though Warrior got recut and all their options added for the most part, the core of their kit is still the 4th edition warrior (but I'll give them a pass as they maintain their aesthetic but improve a lot of things). Trygons/Mawlocs date to 5th edition 40k. as do the plastic Raveners iirc.

Lictors, Spore Mines, Pyrovores and Biovores are all still finecast kits as well. It's be easy enough to combine Biovores and Pyrovores into a dual kit and to be honest, probably easy enough to do a plastic Lictor brood with options to make Deathleaper out of one of them.

Nothing wrong with the Burna/Loota kit. Apart from special characters, only the Tankbustas and Wierdboy are finecast still, so we're pretty well off now.

I’m pretty sure, that after current big Eldar update, the most outdated range deserving an immediate update will be… Eldar We haven’t had any rumours of Falcon chasis getting a refresh and this is a 20+ years old kit. There are also five PL to refresh and we saw a peek at one. What we hear is that current update is „large but incomplete”, so I think it’s safe to assume, that there will still be some 20+ years old, original or 3rd/4th era sculpts left to refresh.

Other than that, it is really baffling why an obvious biovore/pyrovore plastic kit has not been released with the rest of Tyranid dual kits and Lictors and Shrikes have been ommited. Gaunts and stealers are getting old and on top of that genestealers are a pain to build. So my vote goes to Tyranids.

I think Tyranids and the Guard are next due a serious release. Gaunts could definitely do with an update.

The problem I have is that both of these horde armies need to have 20 in the box, or else it's painfully expensive.

 Olthannon wrote:
I think Tyranids and the Guard are next due a serious release. Gaunts could definitely do with an update.

The problem I have is that both of these horde armies need to have 20 in the box, or else it's painfully expensive.

Exactly. 20 in a box is a must. Also, even as a Tyranid fan that really wants all plastic army, and the update of all those dated plastic kits, I think that IG should get their infantry first as they look so dated next to all other stuff it is not funny.

One problem with updating Gaunts is that those would have to be significantly better sculpts, not simply better cut kits for the old players to invest in them. I don't really find it all that rewarding to assemble and paint another 60 cannon fodder models

nou wrote:
One problem with updating Gaunts is that those would have to be significantly better sculpts, not simply better cut kits for the old players to invest in them. I don't really find it all that rewarding to assemble and paint another 60 cannon fodder models

Yeah, they need to both look better, and be easier to assemble. Of course they should also have all the weapons/upgrades options in the box too.

 Olthannon wrote:
I think Tyranids and the Guard are next due a serious release. Gaunts could definitely do with an update.

The problem I have is that both of these horde armies need to have 20 in the box, or else it's painfully expensive.

The problem that I have with Guard is that, even now, people are insisting that they're a "horde army" in that they should be flapping units of bajillions of models like Tyranids or Orks.

They are not. There are subfactions within them that prioritize conscripts or the like, but the idea of them being a "horde army" isn't predicated solely upon them having large sized units. It's that there are supposed to be a lot of units out there.

The "horde army" nonsense already has ruined Skitarii in three different ways. At least leave Guard alone.

IG was born from the mental images of trench meat grinders and sweeping Soviet infantry pushes. They were always the most numerous Imperial faction as far as model count is concerned and if there's a non-Xeno army that should be based around the idea of quantity over quality, it's IG.

You can have your Armoured Companies and elite Scion detachments, variety is the spice of life, but calling "horde" IG nonsensical is, well, nonsensical.

 Shadow Walker wrote:

nou wrote:
One problem with updating Gaunts is that those would have to be significantly better sculpts, not simply better cut kits for the old players to invest in them. I don't really find it all that rewarding to assemble and paint another 60 cannon fodder models

Yeah, they need to both look better, and be easier to assemble. Of course they should also have all the weapons/upgrades options in the box too.

GW could certainly get buy-in from some players by just bringing back some of the old Termagant weapon options. Making new broods of spike rifles or stranglewebs would tempting for some, and can be run alongside old fleshborer gaunts.

There's also mention of "new gaunt-forms" in recent fluff, so I think we'll see new options beyond the old terms/hormas.

 His Master's Voice wrote:
IG was born from the mental images of trench meat grinders and sweeping Soviet infantry pushes. They were always the most numerous Imperial faction as far as model count is concerned and if there's a non-Xeno army that should be based around the idea of quantity over quality, it's IG.

And yet, that's not actually the bloody case nor has it been for quite some time.
Tallarn Desert Raiders? Oh, quality over quantity.
Cadian Shock Troops? Prior to the Cruddacing: quality over quantity.
Vostroyans, Necromundan Spyders, Mordians, Praetorians, Catachans, Elysians, Tanith, and Steel Legion? Quality over quantity.
Quantity over quality? Valhallans, Savlar Chem-Dogs, and (potentially arguable even!) Death Korps.

You can have your Armoured Companies and elite Scion detachments, variety is the spice of life, but calling "horde" IG nonsensical is, well, nonsensical.

I called the idea of big units of Guardsmen nonsense. That's why the Conscript Squad exists. That's why the Penal Legionnaires existed. That's why the Combined Squads stratagem exists.

I'll continue to call them nonsense as well. They're nonsense. They show a drastic lack of understanding about what is supposed to make Guard interesting or unique. It's not the idea of "we have so many bodies we can just throw corpses at you with no guns!".

It's the idea that there is always more people to "recruit".

So again...they can be a horde army without needing unit sizes of 20 or more.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 xttz wrote:

GW could certainly get buy-in from some players by just bringing back some of the old Termagant weapon options. Making new broods of spike rifles or stranglewebs would tempting for some, and can be run alongside old fleshborer gaunts.

There's also mention of "new gaunt-forms" in recent fluff, so I think we'll see new options beyond the old terms/hormas.

Were the new gaunt-forms in Octarius book II?

Only stuff I had seen made it sound more like a new "feeder-beast", something the size of a Venomthrope or the like.

I don’t actually think squad size in game was really the point being made though, although that would correlate with the box contents size. It was more about the cost to build an army.

Y'all do y'all.

I just want Guard to be in a good place. I'll frigging firesale my old Cadians to new players if they want in on a new book if I can take Kasrkin going forward.

 xttz wrote:


GW could certainly get buy-in from some players by just bringing back some of the old Termagant weapon options. Making new broods of spike rifles or stranglewebs would tempting for some, and can be run alongside old fleshborer gaunts.

There's also mention of "new gaunt-forms" in recent fluff, so I think we'll see new options beyond the old terms/hormas.

There were rumours floating around the net since at least a year about the new gaunt kit that builds terma/horma/some new gaunt type. Could as well be some wishful thinking and I cannot remember where I read them.

 ImAGeek wrote:
I don’t actually think squad size in game was really the point being made though, although that would correlate with the box contents size. It was more about the cost to build an army.

A Guard 'squad' box should contain a platoon of two grunt squads and one command mob.

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Assuming that Eldar get a fairly big release, as well as chaos, and maybe even tyranids... And as a bonus Guard get the rumoured new vehicle and a DKoK model expansion, and then finally squats get a bit of love.

If Marines were to get more models after this, what are people going to moan about being neglected?

Can I nominate DE?

Given that their already slim codex has lost about 10 different units since 5th and has gained 0 new units in that time.

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
I don’t actually think squad size in game was really the point being made though, although that would correlate with the box contents size. It was more about the cost to build an army.

A Guard 'squad' box should contain a platoon of two grunt squads and one command mob.

Platoons aren't a thing anymore.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:
I think Tyranids and the Guard are next due a serious release. Gaunts could definitely do with an update.

The problem I have is that both of these horde armies need to have 20 in the box, or else it's painfully expensive.

The problem that I have with Guard is that, even now, people are insisting that they're a "horde army" in that they should be flapping units of bajillions of models like Tyranids or Orks.

They are not. There are subfactions within them that prioritize conscripts or the like, but the idea of them being a "horde army" isn't predicated solely upon them having large sized units. It's that there are supposed to be a lot of units out there.

The "horde army" nonsense already has ruined Skitarii in three different ways. At least leave Guard alone.

Maybe not horde army but still infantry heavy.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Tallarn Desert Raiders? Oh, quality over quantity.
Cadian Shock Troops? Prior to the Cruddacing: quality over quantity.
Vostroyans, Necromundan Spyders, Mordians, Praetorians, Catachans, Elysians, Tanith, and Steel Legion? Quality over quantity.
Quantity over quality? Valhallans, Savlar Chem-Dogs, and (potentially arguable even!) Death Korps.

Within the context of the Imperial faction, they're all expandable cannon fodder. All of them. Bar none.

Whether they come onto the table in one squad of 50 or five squads of 10 doesn't matter much, as long as they come en masse. Fail to provide that sense of scale, and you're removing the identity of the army.

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 xttz wrote:


GW could certainly get buy-in from some players by just bringing back some of the old Termagant weapon options. Making new broods of spike rifles or stranglewebs would tempting for some, and can be run alongside old fleshborer gaunts.

There's also mention of "new gaunt-forms" in recent fluff, so I think we'll see new options beyond the old terms/hormas.

There were rumours floating around the net since at least a year about the new gaunt kit that builds terma/horma/some new gaunt type. Could as well be some wishful thinking and I cannot remember where I read them.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Were the new gaunt-forms in Octarius book II?

Only stuff I had seen made it sound more like a new "feeder-beast", something the size of a Venomthrope or the like.

Octarius I pg37 has a bunch of quotes on possible new Tyranid units:

"We have identified a number of new sub-variants of these [gaunt] bioforms that fall even outside the alphus, betaro, gammis and kappun strains we have categorised. Local defence forces dubbed two of these 'tri-claws' and 'cyclopeans'."

"Additionally, I have seen very few battlefields where the Tyranids have deployed such a concentration of apex-level bio-titans. A number of new varieties have been identified, named as 'Monstrum Gravatarmis', 'Bestiagladio Gigantus', 'Rhinotia Arabidus'."

"The Tyranids used varieties never identified before. Bioelectric bombs shorted out the connections between nobles and their Throne Mechanicum, 'sporedrifters' clogged air-exchanger shrine intakes on both Knight suits and those built into fortifications. 'Delvespikes' pierced several metres of ferrocrete before exploding and sending razor sharp shards of chitin in all directions, bringing down walls and slaughtering defenders."

I have a funny feeling that for Tyranids we'll get the "one model and a codex" type of update, considering we're already confirmed getting a big update for Chaos Marines and Eldar, but I'd be thrilled to be wrong.

 Kanluwen wrote:

And yet, that's not actually the bloody case nor has it been for quite some time.
Tallarn Desert Raiders? Oh, quality over quantity.
Cadian Shock Troops? Prior to the Cruddacing: quality over quantity.
Vostroyans, Necromundan Spyders, Mordians, Praetorians, Catachans, Elysians, Tanith, and Steel Legion? Quality over quantity.
Quantity over quality? Valhallans, Savlar Chem-Dogs, and (potentially arguable even!) Death Korps.

What are you talking about???

Guard have been legions of men - lives thrown away in the thousands - for as long as they've been around. They through regiment after regiments into battle, as shown by force listings and even small parts of the fluff (like an element of the Cadian 8th containing 4000 men).

"Prior to the Cruddacing"

A nonsense phrase designed to discount the fact that Guard are the single most numerous fighting faction in the Imperium, with soldiers reaching into the tens of billions. Even the third Ed Guard Codex says "Imperial Guard armies are vast, sprawling affairs that can spread out to cover whole continents".

The Guard are a horde army - certainly something that was more possible when we had platoons. They're not "quality over quantity", and never have been.

drbored wrote:
I have a funny feeling that for Tyranids we'll get the "one model and a codex" type of update, considering we're already confirmed getting a big update for Chaos Marines and Eldar, but I'd be thrilled to be wrong.

To be fair Tyranids don't really "need" a big update. A few models to shift into plastic and they are good. It is more surprising that GW have left those models without an update for so long and that they've not drip-fed things into the Tyranid line to replace/update in a long while. Indeed it is something that AoS seems slightly better at drip feeding and they've a LOT more factions in a lot more need of updates and additions.


AFter that Tyranids are really in a "replace designs" phase rather than needing an all out upgrade.

I went no further than grainy unsmooth paintjobs.

 Overread wrote:

drbored wrote:
I have a funny feeling that for Tyranids we'll get the "one model and a codex" type of update, considering we're already confirmed getting a big update for Chaos Marines and Eldar, but I'd be thrilled to be wrong.

To be fair Tyranids don't really "need" a big update. A few models to shift into plastic and they are good. It is more surprising that GW have left those models without an update for so long and that they've not drip-fed things into the Tyranid line to replace/update in a long while. Indeed it is something that AoS seems slightly better at drip feeding and they've a LOT more factions in a lot more need of updates and additions.


AFter that Tyranids are really in a "replace designs" phase rather than needing an all out upgrade.

True, the models aren't the worst offenders out there. If anything, I think just the Genestealers need an update the most, along with the biovore/pyrovore, but other than that, the range is solid.

Thing is, it's not really GW's style to just sprinkle in updated kits here and there. They build up hype with a bigger release, tying it to a battle box, kill team box, or a larger update + codex. In other words, if a faction doesn't get a more significant update than the typical "insert new HQ option here + codex", then we can expect that to be their major update for the edition.

drbored wrote:

 Overread wrote:

drbored wrote:
I have a funny feeling that for Tyranids we'll get the "one model and a codex" type of update, considering we're already confirmed getting a big update for Chaos Marines and Eldar, but I'd be thrilled to be wrong.

To be fair Tyranids don't really "need" a big update. A few models to shift into plastic and they are good. It is more surprising that GW have left those models without an update for so long and that they've not drip-fed things into the Tyranid line to replace/update in a long while. Indeed it is something that AoS seems slightly better at drip feeding and they've a LOT more factions in a lot more need of updates and additions.


AFter that Tyranids are really in a "replace designs" phase rather than needing an all out upgrade.

True, the models aren't the worst offenders out there. If anything, I think just the Genestealers need an update the most, along with the biovore/pyrovore, but other than that, the range is solid.

Thing is, it's not really GW's style to just sprinkle in updated kits here and there. They build up hype with a bigger release, tying it to a battle box, kill team box, or a larger update + codex. In other words, if a faction doesn't get a more significant update than the typical "insert new HQ option here + codex", then we can expect that to be their major update for the edition.

I've said a few times in various threads that I think 10th will feature nids in the launch box and getting the necron treatment, all evidence seems to show then being held back at the minute for some reason, I can only assume for a large release wave in 2023 which will likely feature 10th ed.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
A nonsense phrase designed to discount the fact that Guard are the single most numerous fighting faction in the Imperium, with soldiers reaching into the tens of billions.

Exactly. You don't see hordes of Space Marines, Sisters or Custodes because on the macro scale from which most of 40k is viewed, they are the elite special forces amidst the unending masses of humanity that makes up the Astra Militarum.
From Vigilus Defiant for just the Dontoria Sprawl theatre you have:

Hell if we want to go far back the forces defending Vervunhive in Necropolis are as follows:

If that's not a horde then I don't know what is.

 Gert wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
A nonsense phrase designed to discount the fact that Guard are the single most numerous fighting faction in the Imperium, with soldiers reaching into the tens of billions.

Exactly. You don't see hordes of Space Marines, Sisters or Custodes because on the macro scale from which most of 40k is viewed, they are the elite special forces amidst the unending masses of humanity that makes up the Astra Militarum.
From Vigilus Defiant for just the Dontoria Sprawl theatre you have:

Spoiler:

Vigilant Guard - 8 regiments
Vigilant Creedsmen - 3 regiments
Mordian Iron Guard - 2 regiments
Gantor Rough Riders - 3 cavalier regiments
Indigan Prefects - 5 regiments
Ezelti Lancers (8th) - 7 echelons
Ocanan Rad Waste Troops - 9 regiments

Hell if we want to go far back the forces defending Vervunhive in Necropolis are as follows:

Spoiler:

Tanith First - 1 regiment
Royal Volpone - 3 regiments
Narmenian Armoured - 1 regiment
Roane Deepers - 2 regiments
Vervun Primary - 500k regulars and 70k auxiliaries
NorthCol forces - 10 regiments split between 20k infantry and 5k armour
Civilian militia "Scratch Companies" - Uknown number

If that's not a horde then I don't know what is.

Yep, and alongside all of those guardsmen will be like maybe 20 space marines.

It's easy to forget the breadth of the Imperial Guard when the tabletop game doesn't really represent their horde-yness.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dudeface wrote:

drbored wrote:

 Overread wrote:

drbored wrote:
I have a funny feeling that for Tyranids we'll get the "one model and a codex" type of update, considering we're already confirmed getting a big update for Chaos Marines and Eldar, but I'd be thrilled to be wrong.

To be fair Tyranids don't really "need" a big update. A few models to shift into plastic and they are good. It is more surprising that GW have left those models without an update for so long and that they've not drip-fed things into the Tyranid line to replace/update in a long while. Indeed it is something that AoS seems slightly better at drip feeding and they've a LOT more factions in a lot more need of updates and additions.


AFter that Tyranids are really in a "replace designs" phase rather than needing an all out upgrade.

True, the models aren't the worst offenders out there. If anything, I think just the Genestealers need an update the most, along with the biovore/pyrovore, but other than that, the range is solid.

Thing is, it's not really GW's style to just sprinkle in updated kits here and there. They build up hype with a bigger release, tying it to a battle box, kill team box, or a larger update + codex. In other words, if a faction doesn't get a more significant update than the typical "insert new HQ option here + codex", then we can expect that to be their major update for the edition.

I've said a few times in various threads that I think 10th will feature nids in the launch box and getting the necron treatment, all evidence seems to show then being held back at the minute for some reason, I can only assume for a large release wave in 2023 which will likely feature 10th ed.

Would love to see it. There's already tons of info out there about GW's entire release schedule being shunted back by a year or more due to pandemic. I'd love for Tyranids to get a lot of attention and I think them being the big bad on an edition release box would be a huge step in that direction. Have they ever been a part of an edition release box before?

drbored wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dudeface wrote:

drbored wrote:

 Overread wrote:

drbored wrote:
I have a funny feeling that for Tyranids we'll get the "one model and a codex" type of update, considering we're already confirmed getting a big update for Chaos Marines and Eldar, but I'd be thrilled to be wrong.

To be fair Tyranids don't really "need" a big update. A few models to shift into plastic and they are good. It is more surprising that GW have left those models without an update for so long and that they've not drip-fed things into the Tyranid line to replace/update in a long while. Indeed it is something that AoS seems slightly better at drip feeding and they've a LOT more factions in a lot more need of updates and additions.


AFter that Tyranids are really in a "replace designs" phase rather than needing an all out upgrade.

True, the models aren't the worst offenders out there. If anything, I think just the Genestealers need an update the most, along with the biovore/pyrovore, but other than that, the range is solid.

Thing is, it's not really GW's style to just sprinkle in updated kits here and there. They build up hype with a bigger release, tying it to a battle box, kill team box, or a larger update + codex. In other words, if a faction doesn't get a more significant update than the typical "insert new HQ option here + codex", then we can expect that to be their major update for the edition.

I've said a few times in various threads that I think 10th will feature nids in the launch box and getting the necron treatment, all evidence seems to show then being held back at the minute for some reason, I can only assume for a large release wave in 2023 which will likely feature 10th ed.

Would love to see it. There's already tons of info out there about GW's entire release schedule being shunted back by a year or more due to pandemic. I'd love for Tyranids to get a lot of attention and I think them being the big bad on an edition release box would be a huge step in that direction. Have they ever been a part of an edition release box before?

Yeah they where in the 4th ed starter box- Battle for Macragge.

I think Nids are getting at least 2 models this year- as the rumour engine seems to show 2 different Nid tails, but otherwise I also suspect they are being held back for a bigger release possibly next year. Just a hunch but the way GW are updating Eldar Chaos and have updated Necrons and Orks it seems pretty likely. Some the existing kits, while good, are quite old and are ripe for a refresh plus they are missing a centrepiece style kit.

It's an irony that Tyranids are missing a "Big" model when the Trygon was one of the first "bigger" scale models that came out. Then again Eldar have also lacked for one for ages as well as their Avatar hasn't been updated - then again Slaanesh only got their bigger keeper a year or two ago.

Eldar lacking a big model? What's a Wraithknight then?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Eldar lacking a big model? What's a Wraithknight then?

Something I forgot about

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Eldar lacking a big model? What's a Wraithknight then?

Should we distinguish between a “Big” and “Centerpiece” model?

The WK is big. But it doesn’t feel like the center of the army. Not like a primarch/greater demon/etc does. Or hopefully the Avatar will, once it gets something to scale.

for nids, they have a ton of big bugs. One problem is that their rules don’t back them up, and edition creep have left some that used to be the centerpiece (the hive tyrant) and just another medium sized unit.

There are also centerpieces like the Triumph of St. Kathrine, that are not really big,

There are not tens of billions of Imperial Guard. There are trillions. Quadrillions of humans in the Imperium means trillions of guard and tens of billions of rare elites like the Sororitas.

Why do we need Centerpiece models? They don't really belong on a tabletop, they're more like static dioramas, and they tend to work quite awkwardly, like the Triumph of St. Katherine or Katakros.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Why do we need Centerpiece models? They don't really belong on a tabletop, they're more like static dioramas, and they tend to work quite awkwardly, like the Triumph of St. Katherine or Katakros.

I miss the days when a Land Raider was a centrepiece model.

A centrepiece isn't one specific thing, it's just the model that is the most eye-catching in a given army. A dreadnought could be the centrepiece or even a Warboss. The diorama Heroes/HQ's are the only two in the entire GW catalogue so I don't see how they can be cited as reasoning for centrepieces being bad.

 Gert wrote:
A centrepiece isn't one specific thing, it's just the model that is the most eye-catching in a given army. A dreadnought could be the centrepiece or even a Warboss. The diorama Heroes/HQ's are the only two in the entire GW catalogue so I don't see how they can be cited as reasoning for centrepieces being bad.

It might be more about the shift in scale? Not everyone wants normal 40k to have Knights, Primarchs, super-heavies etc..

Or maybe they're concerned that we're heading towards AoS territory - i.e. A Game of Centrepieces.

 vipoid wrote:

It might be more about the shift in scale? Not everyone wants normal 40k to have Knights, Primarchs, super-heavies etc..

Or maybe they're concerned that we're heading towards AoS territory - i.e. A Game of Centrepieces.

40k is a centrepiece game, MESBG is a centrepiece game, Bolt Action is a centrepiece game, ASoIaF is a centrepiece game. Centrepiece =/= big model or fancy model. Centrepiece = a model that catches your eye more than the rest of the models in an army.
I shouldn't be surprised that you clearly didn't read my post but here we are.

Just give me a floating stage Harlequin performance centrepiece and I'll be happy.

 Gert wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

It might be more about the shift in scale? Not everyone wants normal 40k to have Knights, Primarchs, super-heavies etc..

Or maybe they're concerned that we're heading towards AoS territory - i.e. A Game of Centrepieces.

40k is a centrepiece game, MESBG is a centrepiece game, Bolt Action is a centrepiece game, ASoIaF is a centrepiece game. Centrepiece =/= big model or fancy model. Centrepiece = a model that catches your eye more than the rest of the models in an army.
I shouldn't be surprised that you clearly didn't read my post but here we are.

Sigh. This is like when that one guy claimed that anything outside of an RTS was IGOUGO, despite the fact that IGOUGO is used in a specific context.

But sure, just change the definition of 'centrepiece model' to 'model with an eye-catching paint job' and just ignore the fact that no one else ever uses the term in that context.

Your argument is so powerful that I can hear the veins in your meaty brain throbbing from here.

 vipoid wrote:

Sigh. This is like when that one guy claimed that anything outside of an RTS was IGOUGO, despite the fact that IGOUGO is used in a specific context.

But sure, just change the definition of 'centrepiece model' to 'model with an eye-catching paint job' and just ignore the fact that no one else ever uses the term in that context.

Your argument is so powerful that I can hear the veins in your meaty brain throbbing from here.

In the context of a Warhammer army, one thing is the centrepiece. This model isn't going to be the same thing in every single army and I agree that models like Magnus or Nagash are centrepieces of specific ranges but they are not the only things that are army centrepieces. Nowhere did I say paint job, all I said was eye-catching. Would you not agree that a Leviathan Dreadnought is eye-catching when compared to normal Space Marines? How about a mounted Empire General in an army of Statetroops? What about Saruman the White in an Isengard force?
The point about AoS being a "Game of Centrepeices" was funny because it's such nonsense.
But hey, go off and start chucking insults because someone disagreed with your opinion.

You can have something that is the centrepiece of your army in the role it plays, but generally "centrepiece" from a miniature perspective does mean singular big things.

It's not just something that 'catches your eye'.

Besides, 40k isn't a "Centrepiece game". It's an MSU game.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You can have something that is the centrepiece of your army in the role it plays, but generally "centrepiece" from a miniature perspective does mean singular big things.

It's not just something that 'catches your eye'.

Besides, 40k isn't a "Centrepiece game". It's an MSU game.

Nah, I do think 40k is heading towards a centerpiece game. More and more heroes are on bigger bases despite being the same size as old heroes (see the finecast warpsmith on a 25mm versus the new one on a 40mm), and then you've got big characters like Abaddon, Guilliman, Szarekh, and others that aren't the biggest model in the faction, but definitely the centerpiece model, both in playstyle and in visual impact.

If people don't like hero-hammer, they're really going to hate heroic hero-hammer.

Warhammer has been for the longest time("but not always" before I get Rules Lawyered here) Herohammer, whether it is 40k or AoS. The new big - as well as less big - special models just further reflect that.

I could almost though argue that AoS has tried to lessen the herohammer by removing a lot of the old hero synergies in the newer(3.0) books. Same kind of goes for 40k, but even if the hero are only buffing CORE they are often formidable fighters on their own so they still play the heroic role.

I wonder what is being or has been designed as a new Imperial Guard terrain piece?

Will it be as good as the 3d print HQ I just picked up based on the Dawn of War HQ?

I would love to see Platoons come back for IG. That's how I still organise mine up on the table.

Not likely though seeing as even GW likely realised it was costing upwards of £70 (I'm not even going into strange, arcane foreign currency calculations) for a singleTroops choice.

Combat Patrol article https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/10/the-tau-empire-leads-the-charge-as-five-combat-patrols-prepare-to-land/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=warhammer-40,000&utm_content=combatpatrols10012022 I think the Tau is new

Tau one is new.

Hmm... I don't own a single thing from that box.

Just wish we knew when the Infernal Master was getting released separately. I don't want more Tzaangors. I've got dozens of 'em already.

IDK if it looks good. The large battlesuit is nice but compared to the GK box that also has a similar large model, the rest of the infantry doesn't seem to stack up as well (and idk if the GK box is even any good for money saved / volume of models. Certainly doesn't appeal to me in the same way as the GSC one does).

The Combat Patrol contents are certainly improving, but given there's a Deathwatch box without any Deathwatch minis in it, and a Deathguard box that has 3 incomplete Marines in there, that's not exactly a high bar to reach.

Still, that Tau one is very nice. The GSC one is the kind of thing where buying 2 of them would be good, but I hate having multiples of unique minis and I already have that Magus.

 Overread wrote:

drbored wrote:
I have a funny feeling that for Tyranids we'll get the "one model and a codex" type of update, considering we're already confirmed getting a big update for Chaos Marines and Eldar, but I'd be thrilled to be wrong.

To be fair Tyranids don't really "need" a big update. A few models to shift into plastic and they are good. It is more surprising that GW have left those models without an update for so long and that they've not drip-fed things into the Tyranid line to replace/update in a long while. Indeed it is something that AoS seems slightly better at drip feeding and they've a LOT more factions in a lot more need of updates and additions.


AFter that Tyranids are really in a "replace designs" phase rather than needing an all out upgrade.

I consider the Tyranid update the same thing I'd consider a Seraphon update in AoS.

GW have shown that they LIKE the design aesthetic as it is - newer releases and art adhere to it and keep it and that's fine. I don't think Tyranids need a 5th ed Dark Eldar scale overhaul and redesign in the slightest.

What they need is a 'dynamic' update - similar to how the Chaos Warriors look in the AoS Start Collecting box compared to the generic kit. With a lot more 'dynamic' kits and maybe a few more options added it (again, Stranglewebs and Spike Rifles). A dynamic update could also help the Hormagaunt 'problem' as well (Because no one likes having to weigh bases down or pin tiny hooves to the 2mm of contact with the base that they actually have cause you dropped one).

If they still want to keep Ripper Swarms in with Gaunt broods then it needs to be 3 Ripper Swarms per Gaunt brood box because single swarms spread across boxes is annoying as anything - that bit Necrons got right.

In short - Tyranids just have a few things in resin that could easily move into plastic as dual kits and their oldest plastic kits need a more 'dynamic' update. The aesthetic is fine. The kits are just all relatively static and bland across the board.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

If they still want to keep Ripper Swarms in with Gaunt broods then it needs to be 3 Ripper Swarms per Gaunt brood box because single swarms spread across boxes is annoying as anything - that bit Necrons got right.

In short - Tyranids just have a few things in resin that could easily move into plastic as dual kits and their oldest plastic kits need a more 'dynamic' update. The aesthetic is fine. The kits are just all relatively static and bland across the board.

I think Nids would benefit from plastic versions of the FW ripper swarms. They look great but core troops definitely shouldn't be bought via Forgeworld. It's a bit like Eldar having two versions of the Avatar for a long time; one is official but looks terrible and the other is nice but expensive.

Yeah, good point about the Seraphon. The Saurus need a big 'dynamic' update, along with things like the Temple Guard and pretty much all of the Saurus leaders (save the carnosaur one) to match the aesthetic that they have for the Underworlds Warband and such.

Would be nice to get new Salamanders/Razordons and Chameleon Skinks too...

Tyranids aren't in as bad of a spot. A few resin kits and an update to Genestealers and they'll look great.

Would anyone buy Ripper Swarms for the same cost as Nurglings for 3 whole bases?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Would anyone buy Ripper Swarms for the same cost as Nurglings for 3 whole bases?

I had to check. And then make sure I was in the right country’s webstore.

Nope. That’s crazy talk for prices, and now I feel bad for Nurgle players.

I’m happy picking up the odd little biter in random boxes until I have enough for another base.

 Nevelon wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Would anyone buy Ripper Swarms for the same cost as Nurglings for 3 whole bases?

I had to check. And then make sure I was in the right country’s webstore.

Nope. That’s crazy talk for prices, and now I feel bad for Nurgle players.

I’m happy picking up the odd little biter in random boxes until I have enough for another base.

I was like, yeah sure, I'd pay 40$ (CAD) to get some Rippers that looks good (and easy to get) ... Then I thought, wait, how much are the Necron Scarabs? They are 55$, but come with 10 free Necron Warriors on top of it! I want that kind of box for the Tyranids instead

 Skywave wrote:

I was like, yeah sure, I'd pay 40$ (CAD) to get some Rippers that looks good (and easy to get) ... Then I thought, wait, how much are the Necron Scarabs? They are 55$, but come with 10 free Necron Warriors on top of it! I want that kind of box for the Tyranids instead

Ha ha, this! I want Rippers with free Gaunts too

Absolute vindication on the Daughters of Khaine vs Dark Eldar debate

 ImAGeek wrote:
Absolute vindication on the Daughters of Khaine vs Dark Eldar debate

Well, she is 90% of the way to being a Succubus model as is...

But DE already got their Codex release by that stage, so it was far more likely to be AoS than 40k.

 ImAGeek wrote:
Absolute vindication on the Daughters of Khaine vs Dark Eldar debate

Yeah I saw Drukhari Wyches as soon as I looked at them.

Still great minis though. And they are elves so meh!