Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Tallarn Desert Raiders? Oh, quality over quantity.
Cadian Shock Troops? Prior to the Cruddacing: quality over quantity.
Vostroyans, Necromundan Spyders, Mordians, Praetorians, Catachans, Elysians, Tanith, and Steel Legion? Quality over quantity.
Quantity over quality? Valhallans, Savlar Chem-Dogs, and (potentially arguable even!) Death Korps.

Within the context of the Imperial faction, they're all expandable cannon fodder. All of them. Bar none.

Whether they come onto the table in one squad of 50 or five squads of 10 doesn't matter much, as long as they come en masse. Fail to provide that sense of scale, and you're removing the identity of the army.

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 xttz wrote:


GW could certainly get buy-in from some players by just bringing back some of the old Termagant weapon options. Making new broods of spike rifles or stranglewebs would tempting for some, and can be run alongside old fleshborer gaunts.

There's also mention of "new gaunt-forms" in recent fluff, so I think we'll see new options beyond the old terms/hormas.

There were rumours floating around the net since at least a year about the new gaunt kit that builds terma/horma/some new gaunt type. Could as well be some wishful thinking and I cannot remember where I read them.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Were the new gaunt-forms in Octarius book II?

Only stuff I had seen made it sound more like a new "feeder-beast", something the size of a Venomthrope or the like.

Octarius I pg37 has a bunch of quotes on possible new Tyranid units:

"We have identified a number of new sub-variants of these [gaunt] bioforms that fall even outside the alphus, betaro, gammis and kappun strains we have categorised. Local defence forces dubbed two of these 'tri-claws' and 'cyclopeans'."

"Additionally, I have seen very few battlefields where the Tyranids have deployed such a concentration of apex-level bio-titans. A number of new varieties have been identified, named as 'Monstrum Gravatarmis', 'Bestiagladio Gigantus', 'Rhinotia Arabidus'."

"The Tyranids used varieties never identified before. Bioelectric bombs shorted out the connections between nobles and their Throne Mechanicum, 'sporedrifters' clogged air-exchanger shrine intakes on both Knight suits and those built into fortifications. 'Delvespikes' pierced several metres of ferrocrete before exploding and sending razor sharp shards of chitin in all directions, bringing down walls and slaughtering defenders."

I have a funny feeling that for Tyranids we'll get the "one model and a codex" type of update, considering we're already confirmed getting a big update for Chaos Marines and Eldar, but I'd be thrilled to be wrong.

 Kanluwen wrote:

And yet, that's not actually the bloody case nor has it been for quite some time.
Tallarn Desert Raiders? Oh, quality over quantity.
Cadian Shock Troops? Prior to the Cruddacing: quality over quantity.
Vostroyans, Necromundan Spyders, Mordians, Praetorians, Catachans, Elysians, Tanith, and Steel Legion? Quality over quantity.
Quantity over quality? Valhallans, Savlar Chem-Dogs, and (potentially arguable even!) Death Korps.

What are you talking about???

Guard have been legions of men - lives thrown away in the thousands - for as long as they've been around. They through regiment after regiments into battle, as shown by force listings and even small parts of the fluff (like an element of the Cadian 8th containing 4000 men).

"Prior to the Cruddacing"

A nonsense phrase designed to discount the fact that Guard are the single most numerous fighting faction in the Imperium, with soldiers reaching into the tens of billions. Even the third Ed Guard Codex says "Imperial Guard armies are vast, sprawling affairs that can spread out to cover whole continents".

The Guard are a horde army - certainly something that was more possible when we had platoons. They're not "quality over quantity", and never have been.

drbored wrote:
I have a funny feeling that for Tyranids we'll get the "one model and a codex" type of update, considering we're already confirmed getting a big update for Chaos Marines and Eldar, but I'd be thrilled to be wrong.

To be fair Tyranids don't really "need" a big update. A few models to shift into plastic and they are good. It is more surprising that GW have left those models without an update for so long and that they've not drip-fed things into the Tyranid line to replace/update in a long while. Indeed it is something that AoS seems slightly better at drip feeding and they've a LOT more factions in a lot more need of updates and additions.


AFter that Tyranids are really in a "replace designs" phase rather than needing an all out upgrade.

I went no further than grainy unsmooth paintjobs.

 Overread wrote:

drbored wrote:
I have a funny feeling that for Tyranids we'll get the "one model and a codex" type of update, considering we're already confirmed getting a big update for Chaos Marines and Eldar, but I'd be thrilled to be wrong.

To be fair Tyranids don't really "need" a big update. A few models to shift into plastic and they are good. It is more surprising that GW have left those models without an update for so long and that they've not drip-fed things into the Tyranid line to replace/update in a long while. Indeed it is something that AoS seems slightly better at drip feeding and they've a LOT more factions in a lot more need of updates and additions.


AFter that Tyranids are really in a "replace designs" phase rather than needing an all out upgrade.

True, the models aren't the worst offenders out there. If anything, I think just the Genestealers need an update the most, along with the biovore/pyrovore, but other than that, the range is solid.

Thing is, it's not really GW's style to just sprinkle in updated kits here and there. They build up hype with a bigger release, tying it to a battle box, kill team box, or a larger update + codex. In other words, if a faction doesn't get a more significant update than the typical "insert new HQ option here + codex", then we can expect that to be their major update for the edition.

drbored wrote:

 Overread wrote:

drbored wrote:
I have a funny feeling that for Tyranids we'll get the "one model and a codex" type of update, considering we're already confirmed getting a big update for Chaos Marines and Eldar, but I'd be thrilled to be wrong.

To be fair Tyranids don't really "need" a big update. A few models to shift into plastic and they are good. It is more surprising that GW have left those models without an update for so long and that they've not drip-fed things into the Tyranid line to replace/update in a long while. Indeed it is something that AoS seems slightly better at drip feeding and they've a LOT more factions in a lot more need of updates and additions.


AFter that Tyranids are really in a "replace designs" phase rather than needing an all out upgrade.

True, the models aren't the worst offenders out there. If anything, I think just the Genestealers need an update the most, along with the biovore/pyrovore, but other than that, the range is solid.

Thing is, it's not really GW's style to just sprinkle in updated kits here and there. They build up hype with a bigger release, tying it to a battle box, kill team box, or a larger update + codex. In other words, if a faction doesn't get a more significant update than the typical "insert new HQ option here + codex", then we can expect that to be their major update for the edition.

I've said a few times in various threads that I think 10th will feature nids in the launch box and getting the necron treatment, all evidence seems to show then being held back at the minute for some reason, I can only assume for a large release wave in 2023 which will likely feature 10th ed.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
A nonsense phrase designed to discount the fact that Guard are the single most numerous fighting faction in the Imperium, with soldiers reaching into the tens of billions.

Exactly. You don't see hordes of Space Marines, Sisters or Custodes because on the macro scale from which most of 40k is viewed, they are the elite special forces amidst the unending masses of humanity that makes up the Astra Militarum.
From Vigilus Defiant for just the Dontoria Sprawl theatre you have:

Hell if we want to go far back the forces defending Vervunhive in Necropolis are as follows:

If that's not a horde then I don't know what is.

 Gert wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
A nonsense phrase designed to discount the fact that Guard are the single most numerous fighting faction in the Imperium, with soldiers reaching into the tens of billions.

Exactly. You don't see hordes of Space Marines, Sisters or Custodes because on the macro scale from which most of 40k is viewed, they are the elite special forces amidst the unending masses of humanity that makes up the Astra Militarum.
From Vigilus Defiant for just the Dontoria Sprawl theatre you have:

Spoiler:

Vigilant Guard - 8 regiments
Vigilant Creedsmen - 3 regiments
Mordian Iron Guard - 2 regiments
Gantor Rough Riders - 3 cavalier regiments
Indigan Prefects - 5 regiments
Ezelti Lancers (8th) - 7 echelons
Ocanan Rad Waste Troops - 9 regiments

Hell if we want to go far back the forces defending Vervunhive in Necropolis are as follows:

Spoiler:

Tanith First - 1 regiment
Royal Volpone - 3 regiments
Narmenian Armoured - 1 regiment
Roane Deepers - 2 regiments
Vervun Primary - 500k regulars and 70k auxiliaries
NorthCol forces - 10 regiments split between 20k infantry and 5k armour
Civilian militia "Scratch Companies" - Uknown number

If that's not a horde then I don't know what is.

Yep, and alongside all of those guardsmen will be like maybe 20 space marines.

It's easy to forget the breadth of the Imperial Guard when the tabletop game doesn't really represent their horde-yness.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dudeface wrote:

drbored wrote:

 Overread wrote:

drbored wrote:
I have a funny feeling that for Tyranids we'll get the "one model and a codex" type of update, considering we're already confirmed getting a big update for Chaos Marines and Eldar, but I'd be thrilled to be wrong.

To be fair Tyranids don't really "need" a big update. A few models to shift into plastic and they are good. It is more surprising that GW have left those models without an update for so long and that they've not drip-fed things into the Tyranid line to replace/update in a long while. Indeed it is something that AoS seems slightly better at drip feeding and they've a LOT more factions in a lot more need of updates and additions.


AFter that Tyranids are really in a "replace designs" phase rather than needing an all out upgrade.

True, the models aren't the worst offenders out there. If anything, I think just the Genestealers need an update the most, along with the biovore/pyrovore, but other than that, the range is solid.

Thing is, it's not really GW's style to just sprinkle in updated kits here and there. They build up hype with a bigger release, tying it to a battle box, kill team box, or a larger update + codex. In other words, if a faction doesn't get a more significant update than the typical "insert new HQ option here + codex", then we can expect that to be their major update for the edition.

I've said a few times in various threads that I think 10th will feature nids in the launch box and getting the necron treatment, all evidence seems to show then being held back at the minute for some reason, I can only assume for a large release wave in 2023 which will likely feature 10th ed.

Would love to see it. There's already tons of info out there about GW's entire release schedule being shunted back by a year or more due to pandemic. I'd love for Tyranids to get a lot of attention and I think them being the big bad on an edition release box would be a huge step in that direction. Have they ever been a part of an edition release box before?

drbored wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dudeface wrote:

drbored wrote:

 Overread wrote:

drbored wrote:
I have a funny feeling that for Tyranids we'll get the "one model and a codex" type of update, considering we're already confirmed getting a big update for Chaos Marines and Eldar, but I'd be thrilled to be wrong.

To be fair Tyranids don't really "need" a big update. A few models to shift into plastic and they are good. It is more surprising that GW have left those models without an update for so long and that they've not drip-fed things into the Tyranid line to replace/update in a long while. Indeed it is something that AoS seems slightly better at drip feeding and they've a LOT more factions in a lot more need of updates and additions.


AFter that Tyranids are really in a "replace designs" phase rather than needing an all out upgrade.

True, the models aren't the worst offenders out there. If anything, I think just the Genestealers need an update the most, along with the biovore/pyrovore, but other than that, the range is solid.

Thing is, it's not really GW's style to just sprinkle in updated kits here and there. They build up hype with a bigger release, tying it to a battle box, kill team box, or a larger update + codex. In other words, if a faction doesn't get a more significant update than the typical "insert new HQ option here + codex", then we can expect that to be their major update for the edition.

I've said a few times in various threads that I think 10th will feature nids in the launch box and getting the necron treatment, all evidence seems to show then being held back at the minute for some reason, I can only assume for a large release wave in 2023 which will likely feature 10th ed.

Would love to see it. There's already tons of info out there about GW's entire release schedule being shunted back by a year or more due to pandemic. I'd love for Tyranids to get a lot of attention and I think them being the big bad on an edition release box would be a huge step in that direction. Have they ever been a part of an edition release box before?

Yeah they where in the 4th ed starter box- Battle for Macragge.

I think Nids are getting at least 2 models this year- as the rumour engine seems to show 2 different Nid tails, but otherwise I also suspect they are being held back for a bigger release possibly next year. Just a hunch but the way GW are updating Eldar Chaos and have updated Necrons and Orks it seems pretty likely. Some the existing kits, while good, are quite old and are ripe for a refresh plus they are missing a centrepiece style kit.

It's an irony that Tyranids are missing a "Big" model when the Trygon was one of the first "bigger" scale models that came out. Then again Eldar have also lacked for one for ages as well as their Avatar hasn't been updated - then again Slaanesh only got their bigger keeper a year or two ago.

Eldar lacking a big model? What's a Wraithknight then?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Eldar lacking a big model? What's a Wraithknight then?

Something I forgot about

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Eldar lacking a big model? What's a Wraithknight then?

Should we distinguish between a “Big” and “Centerpiece” model?

The WK is big. But it doesn’t feel like the center of the army. Not like a primarch/greater demon/etc does. Or hopefully the Avatar will, once it gets something to scale.

for nids, they have a ton of big bugs. One problem is that their rules don’t back them up, and edition creep have left some that used to be the centerpiece (the hive tyrant) and just another medium sized unit.

There are also centerpieces like the Triumph of St. Kathrine, that are not really big,

There are not tens of billions of Imperial Guard. There are trillions. Quadrillions of humans in the Imperium means trillions of guard and tens of billions of rare elites like the Sororitas.

Why do we need Centerpiece models? They don't really belong on a tabletop, they're more like static dioramas, and they tend to work quite awkwardly, like the Triumph of St. Katherine or Katakros.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Why do we need Centerpiece models? They don't really belong on a tabletop, they're more like static dioramas, and they tend to work quite awkwardly, like the Triumph of St. Katherine or Katakros.

I miss the days when a Land Raider was a centrepiece model.

A centrepiece isn't one specific thing, it's just the model that is the most eye-catching in a given army. A dreadnought could be the centrepiece or even a Warboss. The diorama Heroes/HQ's are the only two in the entire GW catalogue so I don't see how they can be cited as reasoning for centrepieces being bad.

 Gert wrote:
A centrepiece isn't one specific thing, it's just the model that is the most eye-catching in a given army. A dreadnought could be the centrepiece or even a Warboss. The diorama Heroes/HQ's are the only two in the entire GW catalogue so I don't see how they can be cited as reasoning for centrepieces being bad.

It might be more about the shift in scale? Not everyone wants normal 40k to have Knights, Primarchs, super-heavies etc..

Or maybe they're concerned that we're heading towards AoS territory - i.e. A Game of Centrepieces.

 vipoid wrote:

It might be more about the shift in scale? Not everyone wants normal 40k to have Knights, Primarchs, super-heavies etc..

Or maybe they're concerned that we're heading towards AoS territory - i.e. A Game of Centrepieces.

40k is a centrepiece game, MESBG is a centrepiece game, Bolt Action is a centrepiece game, ASoIaF is a centrepiece game. Centrepiece =/= big model or fancy model. Centrepiece = a model that catches your eye more than the rest of the models in an army.
I shouldn't be surprised that you clearly didn't read my post but here we are.

Just give me a floating stage Harlequin performance centrepiece and I'll be happy.

 Gert wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

It might be more about the shift in scale? Not everyone wants normal 40k to have Knights, Primarchs, super-heavies etc..

Or maybe they're concerned that we're heading towards AoS territory - i.e. A Game of Centrepieces.

40k is a centrepiece game, MESBG is a centrepiece game, Bolt Action is a centrepiece game, ASoIaF is a centrepiece game. Centrepiece =/= big model or fancy model. Centrepiece = a model that catches your eye more than the rest of the models in an army.
I shouldn't be surprised that you clearly didn't read my post but here we are.

Sigh. This is like when that one guy claimed that anything outside of an RTS was IGOUGO, despite the fact that IGOUGO is used in a specific context.

But sure, just change the definition of 'centrepiece model' to 'model with an eye-catching paint job' and just ignore the fact that no one else ever uses the term in that context.

Your argument is so powerful that I can hear the veins in your meaty brain throbbing from here.

 vipoid wrote:

Sigh. This is like when that one guy claimed that anything outside of an RTS was IGOUGO, despite the fact that IGOUGO is used in a specific context.

But sure, just change the definition of 'centrepiece model' to 'model with an eye-catching paint job' and just ignore the fact that no one else ever uses the term in that context.

Your argument is so powerful that I can hear the veins in your meaty brain throbbing from here.

In the context of a Warhammer army, one thing is the centrepiece. This model isn't going to be the same thing in every single army and I agree that models like Magnus or Nagash are centrepieces of specific ranges but they are not the only things that are army centrepieces. Nowhere did I say paint job, all I said was eye-catching. Would you not agree that a Leviathan Dreadnought is eye-catching when compared to normal Space Marines? How about a mounted Empire General in an army of Statetroops? What about Saruman the White in an Isengard force?
The point about AoS being a "Game of Centrepeices" was funny because it's such nonsense.
But hey, go off and start chucking insults because someone disagreed with your opinion.

You can have something that is the centrepiece of your army in the role it plays, but generally "centrepiece" from a miniature perspective does mean singular big things.

It's not just something that 'catches your eye'.

Besides, 40k isn't a "Centrepiece game". It's an MSU game.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You can have something that is the centrepiece of your army in the role it plays, but generally "centrepiece" from a miniature perspective does mean singular big things.

It's not just something that 'catches your eye'.

Besides, 40k isn't a "Centrepiece game". It's an MSU game.

Nah, I do think 40k is heading towards a centerpiece game. More and more heroes are on bigger bases despite being the same size as old heroes (see the finecast warpsmith on a 25mm versus the new one on a 40mm), and then you've got big characters like Abaddon, Guilliman, Szarekh, and others that aren't the biggest model in the faction, but definitely the centerpiece model, both in playstyle and in visual impact.

If people don't like hero-hammer, they're really going to hate heroic hero-hammer.

Warhammer has been for the longest time("but not always" before I get Rules Lawyered here) Herohammer, whether it is 40k or AoS. The new big - as well as less big - special models just further reflect that.

I could almost though argue that AoS has tried to lessen the herohammer by removing a lot of the old hero synergies in the newer(3.0) books. Same kind of goes for 40k, but even if the hero are only buffing CORE they are often formidable fighters on their own so they still play the heroic role.

I wonder what is being or has been designed as a new Imperial Guard terrain piece?

Will it be as good as the 3d print HQ I just picked up based on the Dawn of War HQ?

I would love to see Platoons come back for IG. That's how I still organise mine up on the table.

Not likely though seeing as even GW likely realised it was costing upwards of £70 (I'm not even going into strange, arcane foreign currency calculations) for a singleTroops choice.

Combat Patrol article https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/10/the-tau-empire-leads-the-charge-as-five-combat-patrols-prepare-to-land/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=warhammer-40,000&utm_content=combatpatrols10012022 I think the Tau is new

Tau one is new.

Hmm... I don't own a single thing from that box.

Just wish we knew when the Infernal Master was getting released separately. I don't want more Tzaangors. I've got dozens of 'em already.