Ashiraya wrote:
A decent bit, by the looks of it.

https://minicompare.info/?warboss-big-choppa-big-shoota=&warboss-2026-b-choppa-shoota=

Thank you !



The temptation to convert the new plastic one is strong. The hands on the new Warboss look comically small to me. Interesting that they swapped hands for the close combat and ranged weapons. I could see just moving the hands and head over as a possibility. Well for starters anyway.

I am not playing 40K anymore so I have no plans to pre order anything. All of the last time I pre ordered from GW it went pathetical bad. Easier to wait and order at a discount if I do eventually order. I don't really love the new Boys but I could find a spot for them. Big'uns used to be a thing, what ever they were called.

I find myself wondering if they went back to the 2nd edition mission book from that boxed set to put missions themed for Armageddon together for this boxed set.

Someone said there were only 40 models in this starter box. I really hope that was just he Space Marine half.

GW wrote:
The box is so packed that we’re going to need a fair few bullet points to list it all (dakka points, if you will):
23 brand new push-fit Space Marines
38 brand new push-fit Orks
Conveniently sized Core Rules booklet
Armageddon: Operation Imperator lore book
Chapter Approved 2026-27 Mission Deck
Dominatus Narrative Campaign Deck
Armageddon datasheet cards
Armageddon transfer sheet

More then 40 models in the box by a good bit.

Could be wrong, but I kind of think they'll have a bunch of sales even at £200 a box.
Maybe that's too high for "kids walk into GW store, see box, parents walk out £200 lighter".

But I don't think these kits are really aimed at that market.

There's the maths of £200->£160 after a 20% FLGS discount.
Stick the Marine/Ork halves on Ebay for say £100~ each. Add £10~ for the rules/lore/mission cards etc (this will drop off, but should be okay initially).
So you are making £210 from £160 before any fees. Seems reasonable?

Would you buy a Marine/Ork half for £100? You could say no - but ruthlessly if this is because of cost, you are logically never buying anything from GW.

I guess the issue for me is whether it ever gets "this cheap". For the first year or so of 10th, I sort of assumed I'd check on ebay one day, see a Tyranid half of the Leviathan box for £60-65 and think "go on then, that's what GW want for 20 Termagants".
But I never did as the price always seemed to be significantly higher. Say £85-£100. There are lots selling at £125 today - which is a bit crazy, although its long since been OOP and its still a big discount versus buying the kits individually.
If Ork halves are floating around ebay for say £85 I think they are a bit of a no brainer if you are vaguely thinking of ever playing Orks. At say £125 I think its less of a whimsical purchase.

There's also a degree of "but following your own logic, you should just buy a box for £160, sell the Marines for £90-100, and keep the rest, meaning you've got the Orks and rules/mission cards etc for £60-70."
To which I'd say - this is true, but I'm also very lazy. And that's why I want other people to do this for me. Like they did in the good old days.

Well, Assault on Black Reach was 60€ back in the day which is adjusted for inflation ~100€

It had 10 Marines, 5 Terminators, a Dreadnought and a Captain for the Marines
20 Boyz, 5 Nobz, 3 Koptas and a Boss

Compared to this new box that goes into a similar direction, you get more heroes and 3 more Marines, while the Ork side trades Nobz for Grots (so 5 more models but I would value 5 Nobz over 10 Gots) but it is double the price

on the other hand, with that many heroes, the box is worth less the more you buy, for a todays value of 200€ the only model that would have had no use was the 2nd Marine Captain unless you had some extra bits to convert it and with 30 Marines and 60 Orcs you got a nice base for your army for 200 in todays money

There is a reason why 40k gained in popularity during that time, because it was easy and cheap to start.

Now, spending 200€ on a box to know you need to double that to actually play and buying the box a 2nd time isn't really an option (not even talking about parents walking in, being told that for 2 kids to start 2 of those would be good)

I think it'll sell out, I'd be shocked if it doesn't. 40K always sells like gangbusters. I think us here on Dakka are in a minority of people interested in 40K these days.

Did Leviathan sell out? I don't recall that happening. GW made a flock ton of boxes of that one, this one will be made in similarish quantities.

Having looked closer at the Ork models again, they really look like some of the old black and white Ork artwork brought to 3D. While there is still a bit of Blood Bowlism to them, I think its sufficiently dialed down this time (Only the couple bosses have both shoulder guards). While I still think the Kommandos kit is the GOAT Ork plastic kit, these look more agreeable to me than some of the older Ork kits. My only hestitation comes from the snapfit nature - if some or all of the contents later get a multipart kit release, these will be the inferior ones..

I've wanted to build a small Ork army for years, but felt like the infantry models werent to my satisfaction so held off from collecting. These new models make me finally want to start the collection.. which might also be why some people find them not to be to their liking.. They're quite a differrent take to the earlier ones, at least anatomically speaking.. Roided out megabros with small heads

Tyel wrote:
Could be wrong, but I kind of think they'll have a bunch of sales even at £200 a box.

Obviously they will. Half the people here performatively umming and ahhing over whether it's worth it will be reduced to slavering beasts as soon as the pre-orders go up.

For me it's just that they're out of scale with my existing collection. I suppose I could use them as scarboyz or something but I'm not that bothered.

I think they're nice models, but I'm not the customer for this stuff any more.

But if you're doing your plan to have Rogue Trader 40K with modern models then you NEED orks! They're so key to that era.

If they sold it at £100 they could just cripple the competition for a at least a year.

But nah, I bet it’ll be £160.
So all smaller companies, you can relax for now.

Battle for Maccrage was £40, which seemed like a decent price for a starter set. Not cheap, but good gift price. Even though 4ed starter set was way less stuffed, I’d wager it still seemed like an acceptable entry tax. (75 quid in today’s money). 160… that’s a planned purchase at the minimum for a lot of folks.
What I’m getting at is either I’m behind on how big inflation is over 20 years or that GW is banking on an existing customer base rather than little Timmy age 10, who just popped to the shop.

 tauist wrote:
Did Leviathan sell out? I don't recall that happening. GW made a flock ton of boxes of that one, this one will be made in similarish quantities.

The answer I think is "yes" with minor caveats. It sold out online in most of the world about 24-48 hours. (Maybe just 6 in the UK).
Which was better than Indomitus that sold out in about 5 minutes.
I think this was partly because you could only buy 1-2 boxes so scalping was limited (somewhat anyway).

There were boxes floating around FLGSs for a little bit longer. Especially smaller/less well known stores that were offering no discount on RRP. From GWs perspective that is already a sale though. Can't say what the situation was for GW stores but I assume similar.

Don't think for a moment that Armageddon is a 11th ed starter box though. No siree, its a "launch box". I'm sure much more attractively priced, actual starter boxes will follow suit, featuring a limited selection of the same models (traditionally even in several starter "meal" sizes - Small, Medium, Large, Extra Large).

I could actually wait for such a strarter instead, but seeing I want all the Ork Character models of Armageddon, its unlikely they will all be included in any of the starters..

The only models I really want are the Librarian and Chaplain. The Chaplain is badass, and I can never have too many Librarians.

I'd really prefer to wait for the full multi-part Vanguard Veterans to see what options the box includes.

Folks over at B&CS speulate that multipart kits of these Boyz and Grots is highly likely, due to both coming in a shared sprue. This changes everything as far as I'm concerned.

I will probably skip this box after all. I just need 20 Boyz and 40 Grots (2nd ed 40K starter armies worth), and dont want redundancy, and multipart kits will offer superior kitbash/conversion potential over monopose. Learned my lesson from Indomitus, got too many Indomi Termies now and the monoposes will mostly be left unbuilt & unloved

Might still grab the Ork characters individually from ebay. They are that good

 tauist wrote:
Folks over at B&CS speulate that multipart kits of these Boyz and Grots is highly likely, due to both coming in a shared sprue. This changes everything as far as I'm concerned.

I will probably skip this box after all. I just need 20 Boyz and 40 Grots (2nd ed 40K starter armies worth), and dont want redundancy, and multipart kits will offer superior kitbash/conversion potential over monopose.

Might still grab the Ork characters individually from ebay. They are that good

I think a seperate Boyz kit is possible but not guaranteed. Necron Warriors didn't get a seperate kit but also had all weapon options on the sprue (even got a new one) while Termagants did get an additional kit as they were missing weapon options in the Leviathan set. But that one wasn't actually a multipart kit, instead it was only an upgrade sprue with the missing weapopn options bundled with the same Leviathan sprue.
Boyz are missing options with the power klaw for the nob and the big shoota/rokkit launcha special weapons which I don't think they will just cut.
For the Grots if the Runtherd is truly gone then Gretchin aren't missing any options so the only reason for a separate kit would be because they share a sprue with the boys.

What I actually think might happen is that Gretchin will just come with the Boyz in the future in the same way Scarabs are only available with Necron Warriors and Ripper Swarms come with Termagants.
And if that is the case I also don't expect a separate Boyz kit but only an upgrade sprue like for the Termagants with the missing weapon options and maybe 1-2 new poses or new weapons but not a full new multipart kit

It would be very weird for them not to have a proper kit for the core troops choice of one of the armies these days.

Well I wanted to like the Orks, but when I saw them I wasn’t that excited. Their proportions are off, some of the poses look awkward, and they aren’t compatible with any of the existing Ork models. And their choppas just look weedy. My favourites were the Painboy’s assistant, the lieutenant Boss and the Wartrak (which looks genuinely cool). The Dakkarig just seems pointless. Maybe it’ll all grow on me. The Marines are unexciting; the Primaris design has become rather bulbous-looking, like their armour has been inflated.

On the Waaagh Walker? I don’t think they made it clear if the power field is just for itself (lending impressive defense for a light Walker) or still extends to other Mobs.

If the former? Entirely fair enough. Visually it looks like a smaller KFF.

If the latter? It could add some serious muscle to Mobs at range.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In fact if it gets options at some fyootcha point? Rokkits or Big KFF feels like an option.

Tyel wrote:

 tauist wrote:
Did Leviathan sell out? I don't recall that happening. GW made a flock ton of boxes of that one, this one will be made in similarish quantities.

The answer I think is "yes" with minor caveats. It sold out online in most of the world about 24-48 hours. (Maybe just 6 in the UK).
Which was better than Indomitus that sold out in about 5 minutes.
I think this was partly because you could only buy 1-2 boxes so scalping was limited (somewhat anyway).

There were boxes floating around FLGSs for a little bit longer. Especially smaller/less well known stores that were offering no discount on RRP. From GWs perspective that is already a sale though. Can't say what the situation was for GW stores but I assume similar.

Are you sure about that? I think the very first wave definitely did, but there was stock in both my FLGs (UK) weeks later

Roll Three Dice wrote:
Are you sure about that? I think the very first wave definitely did, but there was stock in both my FLGs (UK) weeks later

Pretty sure. I've gone by own memory and scanning posts on reddit to check I wasn't completely wrong.
Online GW definitely sold out.

I'm UK too. I'd typically go for Dark Sphere (the old store down from Waterloo used to be my go to, which is getting on a bit but still), Wayland Games or Element Games. Sometimes others although only if I'm really hunting for something that's seemingly not available anywhere else.
I'll admit I was covering myself with the caveat of "There were boxes floating around FLGSs for a little bit longer". I think Element Games might have had some until quite late on - but I think they were charging the full fat £150 so its not surprising other stores sold out first.
We are admittedly talking 3 years ago, and I am fully happy to be shown be wrong.

From GW's perspective I don't think they had much stock sitting around.

 Matrindur wrote:

 tauist wrote:
Folks over at B&CS speulate that multipart kits of these Boyz and Grots is highly likely, due to both coming in a shared sprue. This changes everything as far as I'm concerned.

I will probably skip this box after all. I just need 20 Boyz and 40 Grots (2nd ed 40K starter armies worth), and dont want redundancy, and multipart kits will offer superior kitbash/conversion potential over monopose.

Might still grab the Ork characters individually from ebay. They are that good

I think a seperate Boyz kit is possible but not guaranteed. Necron Warriors didn't get a seperate kit but also had all weapon options on the sprue (even got a new one) while Termagants did get an additional kit as they were missing weapon options in the Leviathan set. But that one wasn't actually a multipart kit, instead it was only an upgrade sprue with the missing weapopn options bundled with the same Leviathan sprue.
Boyz are missing options with the power klaw for the nob and the big shoota/rokkit launcha special weapons which I don't think they will just cut.
For the Grots if the Runtherd is truly gone then Gretchin aren't missing any options so the only reason for a separate kit would be because they share a sprue with the boys.

What I actually think might happen is that Gretchin will just come with the Boyz in the future in the same way Scarabs are only available with Necron Warriors and Ripper Swarms come with Termagants.
And if that is the case I also don't expect a separate Boyz kit but only an upgrade sprue like for the Termagants with the missing weapon options and maybe 1-2 new poses or new weapons but not a full new multipart kit

Since these Boyz and Grots will also be included in the 11th edition starter boxes, its a chance I can easily take. Smallest or second smallest starter box at -25% discount will be cheapest way to buy these, should it turn out later that no multipart kit is coming

Roll Three Dice wrote:

Tyel wrote:

 tauist wrote:
Did Leviathan sell out? I don't recall that happening. GW made a flock ton of boxes of that one, this one will be made in similarish quantities.

The answer I think is "yes" with minor caveats. It sold out online in most of the world about 24-48 hours. (Maybe just 6 in the UK).
Which was better than Indomitus that sold out in about 5 minutes.
I think this was partly because you could only buy 1-2 boxes so scalping was limited (somewhat anyway).

There were boxes floating around FLGSs for a little bit longer. Especially smaller/less well known stores that were offering no discount on RRP. From GWs perspective that is already a sale though. Can't say what the situation was for GW stores but I assume similar.

Are you sure about that? I think the very first wave definitely did, but there was stock in both my FLGs (UK) weeks later

My FLGS had 50 extra copies of Leviathan after launch. I'd have to check, but I think there might still be one or two kicking around on the backshelves.

I'd imagine Orks in general and grots in particular will be fairly cheap on ebay.

No offence to ork fans but that seems the pattern in every one of these game boxes. The op-for is always cheap on the secondary market. I think I had like 50 cultists from the Dark Whatever box.

my recollection is that Leviathan sold out via GW and major e-retailers immediately, but it was still possible to buy the set from smaller retailers and via ebay some months later.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
On the Waaagh Walker? I don’t think they made it clear if the power field is just for itself (lending impressive defense for a light Walker) or still extends to other Mobs.

If the former? Entirely fair enough. Visually it looks like a smaller KFF.

If the latter? It could add some serious muscle to Mobs at range.

They have shown the datasheet shortly and we know its ability. No aura, just a 5++, similar to the morkanaut.

Tyel wrote:

Roll Three Dice wrote:
Are you sure about that? I think the very first wave definitely did, but there was stock in both my FLGs (UK) weeks later

Pretty sure. I've gone by own memory and scanning posts on reddit to check I wasn't completely wrong.
Online GW definitely sold out.

I'm UK too. I'd typically go for Dark Sphere (the old store down from Waterloo used to be my go to, which is getting on a bit but still), Wayland Games or Element Games. Sometimes others although only if I'm really hunting for something that's seemingly not available anywhere else.
I'll admit I was covering myself with the caveat of "There were boxes floating around FLGSs for a little bit longer". I think Element Games might have had some until quite late on - but I think they were charging the full fat £150 so its not surprising other stores sold out first.
We are admittedly talking 3 years ago, and I am fully happy to be shown be wrong.

From GW's perspective I don't think they had much stock sitting around.

Real shame dark sphere waterloo closed during covid. Think its just the shepards bush one now.

I wonder which models with get the chop for the starter sets to follow? They were always great value for money but lost a couple of minis. Maybe the speeder and walker? I love how much the speeder looks old-school, not too many greebles and antennas etc like some of the primaries vehicles.

I'm content for now but a small tier set, containing some Intercessors is something I might be interested in.

Basically what Snord said. I was excited by new Orks in a starter set, right up until I saw the models. Credit where it’s due, the Wartrakk is excellent and the weirdboy, nobs and warboss are ok.
The boyz are dreadful - lumpen and awkwardly posed. Even heads swaps may not save them. The banner nob is also terrible with wonky proportions - he looks stupidly wide, not muscular and threatening. The pain boy is unusable, the musculature on his torso makes no sense.
I’ve been trying to like them as I’ve always loved orks, but these are a mess. Personal opinion of course, but it seems like such a wasted opportunity. Maybe they should have got the AOS team to design them.

I'm in the other camp, I love these new Orks.

Wasn't a big fan of the beastsnagga wave, but these ladz do it for me.

Yeah, some of the ork discourse is just bizarre. These are easily the best looking orks GW has ever made and have trivially the best proportions.

It is like with the minimarines, some people are so used to the distorted and weird proportions of the old models that when the proportions are fixed they see it as odd.

Taste, especially through the lens of nostalgia and history, is subjective by its very nature. People like what they like.

I don’t mind the new orcs, but am not so moved by them to spin them up into a full army. It will be fun to paint up the combat patrol as a diversion from my normal projects. Although splitting the box with someone is also an option. There are other side project potentials.

I liked the old 3rd edition Ork boyz but there's are a definite upgrade. I think they look spot on. I don't think you can really question Ork proportions considering the variations in the sculpts over the years.

To be fair don't have a problem with anything in the box. The space marine ancient standard bearer pose is weird, think that's my biggest gripe.

 Crimson wrote:
Yeah, some of the ork discourse is just bizarre. These are easily the best looking orks GW has ever made and have trivially the best proportions.

It is like with the minimarines, some people are so used to the distorted and weird proportions of the old models that when the proportions are fixed they see it as odd.

Here's the thing. I detest the new Boys models. Looking at this boxes set all I could think is what would I have to do to make these look more like the old boys models. Next to none of these new models would find a spot in any of my army lists with out them fitting in with what I already own. I was thinking I have a bunch of ard boys maybe I can pull all of that armour plating off of those and pile it onto these boys. I have no actual desire to do that so I would probably never even clip them off the sprue. The Warboss on the other hand would provide a larger bulkier body for a rebuild of my glorious Warboss. I can scrouge that up later if I decide to bother. If I can find a used one for around 20 bucks preferably less on Ebay... The war trakk is nice, it looks like it came from Dawn of War. To me anyway. So it's not a total loss, the war trakks and the Deff Koptas look solid but the rest, meh. Funny, the new Deff Koptas are what? pushing 10 years old now ? I can't remember.



I am more excited for the Space Marines. I just wish I could find Blood Angels Red, or was it Orange?, the OG color in the OG pots.
I've been painting my7 Primaris as close to that color as I could get and that's a lot of layering and color building. The urge to give up and just paint them as Black Templars is huge though.. Now that I think about it I haven't painted a model in like 3 years. Ooof.

The Red Terror comes to 40K...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/fituxx6v/red-terror-rules-revealed-for-warhammer-40000/

SamusDrake wrote:
The Red Terror comes to 40K...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/fituxx6v/red-terror-rules-revealed-for-warhammer-40000/

It’s just a little less then a trygon/mawlock. Not as tough, different suite of special rules. More killy then the mawloc, less then the trygon?

Not sure how I feel about it.

The ap-0 Maw essentially ruins it. He'll make a decent tunnel rat for the Subterranean Assault detatchment, but unless his points are crazy cheap, I'd rather have Hyperadapted Raveners.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
The ap-0 Maw essentially ruins it. He'll make a decent tunnel rat for the Subterranean Assault detatchment, but unless his points are crazy cheap, I'd rather have Hyperadapted Raveners.

The maw has dev wounds, and it;s got a special rules that as long as it’s eating something bite sizes all successfull wounds are crti wounds, do go to mortals. It’s going to bust a fang on tanks, but that’s OK.

Unless I’m reading the rules wrong…

Edit:
Speaking of reading rules, they talk about using precision to snipe out sergeants from units. Didn’t think you could do that to non-characters.

Well it is only 130 points.

Unless my mental maths is off, we have 7ish weeks to assumed release date so 3 faction focii a week minimum?

The_Real_Chris wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
Super happy with these Orks for sure. I've got a lot of rebasing ahead though...

What base sizes have changed?

Catching up on the thread but didn't see anyone answer this. The Boss Nob in the Boyz seems to be on a bigger base (which will probably extend to all Nobz eventually) and the Warboss appears to also be moved to the same sized base as a Beastboss.

Dudeface wrote:
Unless my mental maths is off, we have 7ish weeks to assumed release date so 3 faction focii a week minimum?

They have said it will be in our hands before June is over. Last Sat is the 27th, which would put a 2 week preorder on the 13th. Do we think they will want to have all the faction foci done before then?

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
I like the new boyz alot. However I really hope they do a proper multi-part kit for them. Having lots of monopose duplicates will get old quick.

I'll be curious what kits they keep in stock. This one doesn't have the special weapon option that was on the old monopose kit and the Boss Nob doesn't have the power claw weapon option either. Honestly, my plan has always been to mix things around. I got the two sets of the original monopose Boyz and mixed in the old multipart. A couple of the new ones just gives me more pose variety if I pull models from all 3 to make units.

I am happy that the duplicates in this set feel less obvious than the old one. Some of the old monopose like the shirtless shoota guy are just so hyper specific that he stands out as a duplicate immediately, where these feel like you might be able to do 30 okay before its really obvious.

 Nevelon wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Unless my mental maths is off, we have 7ish weeks to assumed release date so 3 faction focii a week minimum?

They have said it will be in our hands before June is over. Last Sat is the 27th, which would put a 2 week preorder on the 13th. Do we think they will want to have all the faction foci done before then?

Pre-order May 30, release June 13, according to Valrak (who's been right on all the other 11th rumours since all the way back in November).

Maybe 2 faction previews a day? Or at least squishing Marine Chapters and Chaos Legions down into a day for all of them together.

 Crimson wrote:
Yeah, some of the ork discourse is just bizarre. These are easily the best looking orks GW has ever made and have trivially the best proportions.

It is like with the minimarines, some people are so used to the distorted and weird proportions of the old models that when the proportions are fixed they see it as odd.

Posts like this are like admitting you don't have a theory of mind.

Orks are fungus man space aliens, who's to say what proportions they should have? They don't have human anatomy.

 Nevelon wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
The ap-0 Maw essentially ruins it. He'll make a decent tunnel rat for the Subterranean Assault detatchment, but unless his points are crazy cheap, I'd rather have Hyperadapted Raveners.

The maw has dev wounds, and it;s got a special rules that as long as it’s eating something bite sizes all successfull wounds are crti wounds, do go to mortals. It’s going to bust a fang on tanks, but that’s OK.

Unless I’m reading the rules wrong…

Edit:
Speaking of reading rules, they talk about using precision to snipe out sergeants from units. Didn’t think you could do that to non-characters.

They stealth-edited the article to remove the bits about targetting Sergeants.

Ork FF up: https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/ahlcjhn0/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-orks/

I like the Big Boss and the Bannerguy for my Snakebites.

I'd say the new Boyz look better than the monopose kit from 2018. The Orks with open jaws have too small teeth and much smaller ones' than the guys with closed mouths.
If the kit looks better than the 3rd edition orks I'll rate when I see them next to them. Also, if there's a followup Set that approaches the ability to kitbash and the variety of options of the 3rd edition kit I'll probably get one and would rate them higher than the classic Set, otherwise not.

The way those detachment rules are presented- each army having multiple detachments, each detachment carrying unique enhancements/rules/stratagems, each of those referencing external USRs- gives me the sense that this is going to be a tedious edition of endless cross-referencing and trap cards.

 catbarf wrote:
The way those detachment rules are presented- each army having multiple detachments, each detachment carrying unique enhancements/rules/stratagems, each of those referencing external USRs- gives me the sense that this is going to be a tedious edition of endless cross-referencing and trap cards.

I suspect there is going to be a lot of gotcha confusion moments where people forget which detachment a unit was part of, and what rules applied to it. Especially when the minis might be the same across the army.

Triple the mental load of remembering rules.

Hopefully it’s not too bad. Having flashbacks to formations.

Might need to paint some marines with alt colored shoulder trim to keep them distinct.

It will REALLY depend on how big the detachments be and how armies are organized within them. It definitely has potential to be really interesting and potential to be a bloated mess.

Also I think the App is going to be expected to do a LOT of the heavy lifting.

 Nevelon wrote:

I suspect there is going to be a lot of gotcha confusion moments where people forget which detachment a unit was part of, and what rules applied to it.

Is that how it works? I assumed that with two part detachments the both halves apply to all units...

 Crimson wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

I suspect there is going to be a lot of gotcha confusion moments where people forget which detachment a unit was part of, and what rules applied to it.

Is that how it works? I assumed that with two part detachments the both halves apply to all units...

We’ll find out more later?

I could have swore they mentioned something about certain units in the detachment getting keywords. Not sure if that was army wide or detachment specific. I really want a detailed article on how detachments are going to function.

 Crimson wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

I suspect there is going to be a lot of gotcha confusion moments where people forget which detachment a unit was part of, and what rules applied to it.

Is that how it works? I assumed that with two part detachments the both halves apply to all units...

We don't know yet.

 Crimson wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

I suspect there is going to be a lot of gotcha confusion moments where people forget which detachment a unit was part of, and what rules applied to it.

Is that how it works? I assumed that with two part detachments the both halves apply to all units...

Yeah that's correct.

The Detachments will then give rules that will apply to your whole army, though certain Detachments and rules may only affect certain units within it.

It all just works based on keywords, there's no FoC-equivalent system where certain units 'belong' to each detachment.

 catbarf wrote:
The way those detachment rules are presented- each army having multiple detachments, each detachment carrying unique enhancements/rules/stratagems, each of those referencing external USRs- gives me the sense that this is going to be a tedious edition of endless cross-referencing and trap cards.

I suspect that not all detachments will be 4 enhancements and 6 strats like now, but will build up to that depending on cost. I'd be surprised if we went back to the age of 12 relics and 18+ strats over the 'one page' army rules.

[edit] They pretty much confirmed this in the video, "Rolling Death" detachment is getting three strats.

 Gordy2000 wrote:
Basically what Snord said. I was excited by new Orks in a starter set, right up until I saw the models. Credit where it’s due, the Wartrakk is excellent and the weirdboy, nobs and warboss are ok.
The boyz are dreadful - lumpen and awkwardly posed. Even heads swaps may not save them. The banner nob is also terrible with wonky proportions - he looks stupidly wide, not muscular and threatening. The pain boy is unusable, the musculature on his torso makes no sense.
I’ve been trying to like them as I’ve always loved orks, but these are a mess. Personal opinion of course, but it seems like such a wasted opportunity. Maybe they should have got the AOS team to design them.

Thank you for putting my feelings into words. Something is very off. The banner nob stands out as the exemplar of this effect, his body is enormously wide while his head and arms don't keep up.

The hunchback nature of their head placement definitely makes the torsos large. Making the body clamshell with the arms being a single piece limits how thick the arms can be and probably makes them a little smaller than they'd be in resin or something. I think its more of an issue with the characters whose larger size is easier to scale in the torso while the arms still have practical size limitations in HIPS.

Anyone know if the new rules will be in a separate rule book right away, or will I need to wrestle the paperback copy of the rules from the folks that bought the box sets?

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Anyone know if the new rules will be in a separate rule book right away, or will I need to wrestle the paperback copy of the rules from the folks that bought the box sets?

Hopefully the former. If noot, there's a chance those who manage to get it may be forced to wait a little bit till the retail version drops.

There was a one month gap between Leviathan and the separate 10th edition book.

Shouldn't be hard to find people splitting up boxes. The book and the Dominatus deck are really the only things I need out of the box.

In the meantime, scans of the rulebook could leak on Reddit or 40K Discords any day from here out.

 Asmodai wrote:
There was a one month gap between Leviathan and the separate 10th edition book.

Shouldn't be hard to find people splitting up boxes. The book and the Dominatus deck are really the only things I need out of the box.

In the meantime, scans of the rulebook could leak on Reddit or 40K Discords any day from here out.

There's that, but I was also talking about the Orks army box fiasco(and how the few that got it couldnt legally use the rules yet).

Like the boys, but really not sure about the ork characters, especially the warboss. Just look like the big uncoordinated palookas that always get slaughtered in boxing or mma

One thing I want to bring up about the new Orks. I think they look a lot better IRL than in the promo picts. The difference between the promo picts and the actual 3D miniatures shown in the reveal stream felt significant to me. In fact, werent it for the 3D miniatures shown in the stream, I'd be a lot less hyped about them. On the promo picts they dont look nearly as good IMHO

Having said that, they do look very different to all the previous Orks. Might not be easy to mix these into an existing Ork army, without it looking weird.. But that's precisely why I dont mix old firstborn with the modern HH firstborn models either. You gotta choose which side of the fence you wanna be

They show some of the miniatures painted up by themselves rather than the professionals. They look good enough.

Dudeface wrote:
Unless my mental maths is off, we have 7ish weeks to assumed release date so 3 faction focii a week minimum?

Depending on how many of the factions get a seperate article, there have to be between 27 (if everything with a codex gets an article) and 36 (everything with a seperate category on the GW online store, minus the Titans) articles.

June 27th is the latest possible release, and they could do these article right up to then - meaning there is plenty time (8 weeks with 5 weekdays each) to do one article a day.

 Darnok wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Unless my mental maths is off, we have 7ish weeks to assumed release date so 3 faction focii a week minimum?

Depending on how many of the factions get a seperate article, there have to be between 27 (if everything with a codex gets an article) and 36 (everything with a seperate category on the GW online store, minus the Titans) articles.

June 27th is the latest possible release, and they could do these article right up to then - meaning there is plenty time (8 weeks with 5 weekdays each) to do one article a day.

By all accounts rumours are saying a June 13th or 20th release date fwiw.

6 weeks till release. 5 weekdays a week, so 30 potential Faction Focus slots.

27 current Codexes, so that gives a small amount of wiggle room (and maybe Deathwatch and Daemons still get a day for a total of 29 with no FF on June 12 and a big PDF drop that day instead).

We could see 26 days with Knights, knowing how they sometimes combine both flavors in one day. Possibly less if they showcase two rival legions or do an article on most Astartes.

For daemons and Deathwatch, I'd say DW may get one while daemons could wait(provided thay aren't reduced to the battleline troops for each legion).

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/xiczsalv/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-space-marines/

Focus marines is up. I’ll watch the hour long vid later….

Amd for those doing the math, it includeds BT/BA/DA/SW

I'm seeing a lot of extra complexity in these rules. We've got multiple detachments, all with their own Keywords/Tags (for some units, but not all), all with their own stratagems and all with their own Enhancements/Upgrades. On top of that, some apparently don't count as taking up some slots. Some detachments have multi-tiered options for their rules. Strats can now be multi-layered, which is good for saving space or cutting down on the total number, but adds complexity too, as in the case of Heroic Intervention.

Maybe it'll all be quite simple once we have all the rules, but that's potentially a lot of stuff to track now.

Slipspace wrote:
I'm seeing a lot of extra complexity in these rules. We've got multiple detachments, all with their own Keywords/Tags (for some units, but not all), all with their own stratagems and all with their own Enhancements/Upgrades. On top of that, some apparently don't count as taking up some slots. Some detachments have multi-tiered options for their rules. Strats can now be multi-layered, which is good for saving space or cutting down on the total number, but adds complexity too, as in the case of Heroic Intervention.

Maybe it'll all be quite simple once we have all the rules, but that's potentially a lot of stuff to track now.

Rules creep does seem to be on the rise, but 10th was pretty streamlined, so there is space to grow before we hit the bloated mess stage again.

Theoretically. Looking forward to more info.

My biggest concern reading the latest post is rampant power creep, depending on how many of these you can combine.
Re-roll 1s for all units led by librarians is quite a buff!

 Nevelon wrote:

Slipspace wrote:
I'm seeing a lot of extra complexity in these rules. We've got multiple detachments, all with their own Keywords/Tags (for some units, but not all), all with their own stratagems and all with their own Enhancements/Upgrades. On top of that, some apparently don't count as taking up some slots. Some detachments have multi-tiered options for their rules. Strats can now be multi-layered, which is good for saving space or cutting down on the total number, but adds complexity too, as in the case of Heroic Intervention.

Maybe it'll all be quite simple once we have all the rules, but that's potentially a lot of stuff to track now.

Rules creep does seem to be on the rise, but 10th was pretty streamlined, so there is space to grow before we hit the bloated mess stage again.

Theoretically.

I'd say about 3 more years of bloatification
Just in time to be "saved" by 12th edition.

Imperial Guard will be tomorrow's Faction Focus.

Be interesting to see if they get any tools to help deal with Battleshock being persistent until its removed.

Lord Zarkov wrote:
My biggest concern reading the latest post is rampant power creep, depending on how many of these you can combine.
Re-roll 1s for all units led by librarians is quite a buff!

That's already a rule in the current Librarius Conclave detachment.

Slipspace wrote:
On top of that, some apparently don't count as taking up some slots.

Haven't heard of detatchments that don't count against your 3 points. Was that in the video?

 Asmodai wrote:
Imperial Guard will be tomorrow's Faction Focus.

Be interesting to see if they get any tools to help deal with Battleshock being persistent until its removed.

Commissars, Priests, Vox Operators etc presumably will fix that.

Some interesting stuff in the hour interview. Most notably, not every detachment has strategems. The Librarian one just has 5 enhancement options. Also of notes, Battleshocked units require a successful leadership role to remove Battleshock.

Famous last words, but if the "1 star" detachments are things like "your plasma guns get +1 Strength", I'm not sure its going to be that confusing/complicated.

The only thing I don't really like is more stratagems - but I'm not sure its that ruinous if those are fairly simple too.

My slightly cynical view is that GW are adding artificial choice. "You can mix A and B or A and C or B and C" - sure. But very soon it will likely be solved and people just... won't.

I felt one thing 10th kind of got right was that a lot of the detachments (not all) were characterful. You were sort of trying to describe a formation/style of army that might exist in 40k and was sufficiently different to the others to be its own thing. And I think that made people try to work with them even if they clearly weren't the best right now. I don't know if that's going to apply to detachment combos.

I am still a bit disappointed to not see the return of wargear costs.

Okay, they split off the Shardcarbine Scourges into a whole separate datasheet to price differently in order to get around the issue. Are they going to do that with Shredders too? And Blasters? And Heat Lances? Because I am still only seeing people take Dark Lances, maybe the occasional Haywire if the meta is sufficiently skewed.

The main issue with 10th detachments was just that they got caught up in the trap of buffing very specific units instead a general playstyle and failed to provide some of the core tools the faction had been designed around with their base detachment. It's why, in the end, the launch detachments often remained the competitive standard outside of new stuff that was so egregious it had to be nerfed.

This seems to want to try and allow some of that hyper specific unit design of the codex detatchments without demanding 2000 points be dedicated to that unit. Done correctly, you can have some interesting things like a general toolset that can be pushed in different directions depending on a secondary detachment. It's definitely ambitious and I think its probably going to have a fairly low success rate but it'll probably have some fun options and evolve into something more coherent for 12th.

Tyel wrote:
My slightly cynical view is that GW are adding artificial choice. "You can mix A and B or A and C or B and C" - sure. But very soon it will likely be solved and people just... won't..

I think this is true on some level, but you can only do so much to save players from themselves. People will always find the optimal choice. But if you provide a breadth of choices, and work to balance them all to at least be reasonable (so nothing feels like a throw pick), that alone will take you far.

In Horus Heresy, the melta Kratos is the meta pick, and the volkite Kratos is terrible. The battle cannon Kratos, however, is not so bad. Not optimal, but it does work and reliably so.

Are they trying to move to a model where "this wargear choice is the optimal option in *this* detachment, but that other wargear choice is the optimal option in *that* detachment"?

I was very whelmed by the DA one they showed. Not sure if that'll make Hellblasters suddenly competitive or not, especially when some of the other detachments we already have in the game are absolutely bananaramas

chaos0xomega wrote:
Are they trying to move to a model where "this wargear choice is the optimal option in *this* detachment, but that other wargear choice is the optimal option in *that* detachment"?

If so, they are going to have to work hard. I am sure any local Sisters of Battle player would be happy to educate us just how much it'd take for them to even consider picking Heavy Flamers or Heavy Bolters on their Retributors, since doing that currently is trolling your opponent on purpose.

https://youtu.be/ZR-yzlgyNgE?si=10pyeXctINZ8bLpy

Someone whoopsied.

Fun. All sounds very cool at least, and gives hope that things like marker lights will interact with detection range on an interesting way.

Dudeface wrote:
https://youtu.be/ZR-yzlgyNgE?si=10pyeXctINZ8bLpy

Someone whoopsied.

It's hilarious that the top comment on that video is someone asking to wake up Auspex so they don't have to sit through the super long video for six pieces of information

Video is gone :(

 Ashiraya wrote:
I think this is true on some level, but you can only do so much to save players from themselves. People will always find the optimal choice. But if you provide a breadth of choices, and work to balance them all to at least be reasonable (so nothing feels like a throw pick), that alone will take you far.

In Horus Heresy, the melta Kratos is the meta pick, and the volkite Kratos is terrible. The battle cannon Kratos, however, is not so bad. Not optimal, but it does work and reliably so.

I'm not so worried about balance - as GW is fairly quick to push things around.
Its more about... identity? Character. List Archetypes. Which I guess some people hate as it undermines "your dudes" - and invites accusations of canned strategy.
But I think its kind of necessary to make every unit viable but not necessarily in the same army.

In a world where you can have detachments A, B, C, D, E, you are likely to get "something" of a split. Even if say no one think's E is good, some people will see it as a challenge to try and make E work. Different units, different style of play etc.

If however we get A+B, A+C, A+D, A+E, B+C, B+D etc, I wonder if that's just too diffuse. Its hard to believe that "A+B" will be a specific archetype/style that GW sometimes worry about compared with "A+C" or "A+E" etc.

Basically I'd prefer a system where you get to make a big choice from a few options, to a system where you have theoretically dozens of potential options - and inevitably they aren't all things in themselves.

I don't know Horus Heresy - but if you had "anti-heavy Kratos", "Anti-medium Kratos" and "Anti-light Kratos" that would sort of make sense. Maybe the meta would be that the Anti-Light Kratos was a bit pointless, because no one is taking light units (and that could change) - but it wouldn't suck in its own terms. Now imagine they gave the Kratos 10 different main gun options. There aren't that many defensive different profiles. So its all going to be much of a muchness. A sort of artificial choice. And GW is probably not going to care if "Battle Cannon version 2" is bad - because you can just take "Battle Cannon version 1". Or forget the Battle Cannon entirely.

It sounds like I'm complaining about trap options again - but its not that so much as the identity not being a thing. I think no one is going to want be a "Battle Cannon Version 2-er".

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Fun. All sounds very cool at least, and gives hope that things like marker lights will interact with detection range on an interesting way.

I suspect markerlights are why Tau are getting an early codex. Their entire army rule and dynamic involves a "removes cover" mechanic.

I guess it has been a long time since 40k rules actually had a use for spotters.

Video back up and GW put up the guard FF.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/p9kg7edm/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-astra-militarum/



We’ve seen a few things where you can spot units so their hidden range is bumped up 3”. How relevant do we think that is going to be? It’s not removing the ability to hide so targets can be shot from anywhere, but is that amount of distance going to make a difference?

I think it’s like they said in the video, some armies want to keep distance from stuff, like tau and guard. A small increase to that detection range will only help. Other armies it won’t matter as much.

If you think the positioning effect could work out to opponents having -3 on their charge rolls then maybe its quite good?

Normal detection range is 15”. I’m not going to say bumping that up to 18” will never make a difference. I just think it’s going to be a fringe benefit, and not a huge deal.

..unless you can further boos the detection range by further bonuses?

 tauist wrote:
..unless you can further boos the detection range by further bonuses?

Let's not hope the trivialise the new cover rules before they're even out.

 tauist wrote:
..unless you can further boos the detection range by further bonuses?

We’ll see. And I say that without sarcasm. I like the concept of hidden units, and the fact that they are willing to hook things off the mechanic to make it more engaging.

Right now, my initial impression, is that it’s probably not worth building for. IF you have a spotter unit deployed forward (possibly exposed and at risk of being charged) then you and spot a target unit, which may let another one of your units that was just barely out of range now target something. You need to have the right unit in your list, placed at the right spot, to support another unit also in the exact right spot.

Just seems a lot of things that need to line up just right for the payout.

If I’m taking the spotter unit for its other merits? Might happen.

Like the concept. But we’ll see how useful it is once we get some plastic being pushed around the table.


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Dudeface wrote:

 tauist wrote:
..unless you can further boos the detection range by further bonuses?

Let's not hope the trivialise the new cover rules before they're even out.

Yeah. I’d like the mods to the system to make it worthwhile to include, but not trivialize the whole thing. 3” seems barely worth it, but if we get a hypothetical “spot a unit, it’s no longer hidden” it better be rare and expensive. Otherwise it’s a must take and makes the whole cover system a joke.