Hey folks!

I've been assembling Necrons.

My current 2,000 point list looks like this:

HQ: Deceiver
HQ: Destroyer Lord (Phase Shifter, Rez Orb + War Scythe)
Troop1: 11x Warriors
Troop2: 12x Warriors

Fast1: 3x Wraiths
Fast2: 3x Wraiths
Fast3: 3x Wraiths

Heavy1: Monolith
Heavy2: Monolith
Heavy3: Monolith

This past weekend, I had an opportunity to field them against a combined army of Tau and Space Wolves. It was a friendly game, and I didn't get army lists, but I'll do my best to try reporting them from recollection. Since I don't have pictures, I'm going to refer to positions on the board from my perspective.


2k Space Wolves:
Logan Grimnar
2 Rune Priests (living lightning, murderous hurricane....not sure if there was a JoTWW in there)
2-3 rhinos with grey hunter squads
2-3 razorbacks (I think all had twin-linked lascannons)
Land Raider Redeemer
3x Long Fang squads (scattered lascannons, mostly missile launchers)
1x Lone Wolf
1 landspeeder

I could be missing stuff, I think that's what he had.

2k Tau:
Shas'o with bodyguard suits; missiles / plasma...someone had a cyclonic ion blaster somewhere.
3x Suit teams, plasma/missiles, targeting arrays, shield drones
4-5 squads of firewarriors, one of them a carbine team.
2x units of broadsides with plasma.

We roll for mission: Annihilation. Roll for deployment: Dawn of War. Roll to go first: Opponents win it.

Enemy deployment: (reminder, positions are reported from my perspective)
Space Wolves put a rhino with a grey hunter squad and a rune priest in the back left. Tau put a Crisis team on his back right edge and line two firewarrior squads across the mid-field to deny me positioning for deployment.

Necron Deployment:
I put the Deceiver in my back right corner. Necron Warriors go into true reserve along with the monoliths - my wraiths and destroyer lord are coming out on turn1.

I use the Deceiver's power "Grand Illusion" to redeploy him in front of the firewarriors. *note* Having re-read the "Grand Illusion" rule, I'm not sure if I played it right (I'm new to Necrons) - he gets to redeploy - do I still need to keep 18" away? I'm not sure, but I didn't.

Enemy Turn One:
4,000 points of Tau and Space Wolves roll onto the board - Space Wolves on my left, Tau on my right. I belatedly realize that my C'Tan is positioned well for getting across the board....but he only has a 4+ invul save, and there are...well, I don't know how many lascannons, missile launchers, and missile pods they had, but I knew they were going to use them all. The firewarriors in front of the Deceiver fall back and run as well trying to get away. Between nightfight and my saves....the Nightbringer takes one wound. Woot!

Necron Turn One:
My destroyer Lord turbo-boosts onto the table with 9x wraiths in tow....up the far right flank. I'm playing Close Combat necrons and I want some of those Tau! My C'Tan moves up 6". He uses "Deceive" on a unit of Broadsides, who fail leadership and run off the table. Woot! There goes half the STR10 on the table.

My C'Tan assaults the unit of firewarriors running away from him, killing only two. They can't hurt him back. They PASS leadership on a 6 or less, and my C'Tan stays locked in combat. Double woot! *note 2* Deceive is not a shooting attack. The Deceiver has no weapons, it isn't anything that could be categorized as shooting; no strength, no AP, no psychic test, no scattering, no DICE involved....just point at a unit and make them take a leadership test. So I've been playing that he does what he wants to a unit in 24" but doesn't have to assault the unit he deceived since he hasn't shot at them. It makes sense from what I see in the rule, although I'll consider arguments made to the contrary; I'm still feeling out the Necron rules.

Enemy Turn Two:
My C'Tan is safely tied up in combat, and my destroyer lord and wraiths are hugging the side of the board over by the Tau. Tau open up with suits, firewarriors, more suits....everything. I had to roll a bunch of sets of dice, and in one set, I passed 16 of 17 of my 3++ invulnerable saves. One wraith went down. I actually passed the rest of my invulnerable saves across the board, it was spectacular. Dozens of dice (little chessex block) and no ones or twos.

My C'Tan consolidates out of combat 2d6 towards the rest of the Tau.

Necron Turn Two:
My wraith gets back up. Booyah. I roll for reserves: Neither warrior squad comes in. All three monoliths come in.

My three monoliths deep-strike across the Tau line, pushing his careful walls of firewarriors that are blocking suits around. None hit on target, but they hit roughly where I wanted them - basically bisecting the enemy deployment,and cutting the SW off from the Tau. The Deceiver points at the other unit of Broadsides, who wisely leave the board. No more STR10 on the board! My wraiths and destroyer lord move up and multi-assault into several units of firewarriors and one of his suit teams. I deal a bunch of wounds in exchange for losing a wraith; none of his units roll double ones and I catch and eat them, and consolidate behind the monoliths. My C'Tan assaults into a longfang pack (he's on the SW side now) and kill several, but he passes leadership).

Enemy Turn Three:
The remaining firewarriors and suits line up to get shots around my monoliths at my wraiths. The SW won't be able to see because of my positioning, but there's a hail of rapid fire pulse rifles, plasma, fusion blasters and missile pods coming my way.

Twin-linked lascannons, longfang missiles and lascannons open up on my monoliths and get two shaken results in total. Denied!
All those Tau open up on my wraiths, who roll more spectacular saves (and the Tau player rolled badly with his suits to wound), and I lose the other two in the damaged unit - one of my wraith squads is done, but they're packed in tightly behind a monolith for screening, so I'll still get WBBs. The Deceiver consolidates out of combat with misdirect again.

Necron Turn Three:
I roll for reserves - both warrior squads come out! I place them in my bottom right corner, as far away from the SW as I can get. My monoliths close the gap to form a more solid wall so that my wraiths and Lord can finish their work unmolested by Space Wolves. I roll for WBBs and one wraith gets back up. They portal through the monolith in front of them for a second WBB and the other two get back up too, leaving me with one unit of 3 and one unit of 6.

Two of my monoliths drop particle whips. One scatters through Logan's long fang squad nuking some missiles and a lascannon. The other evaporated a razorback. My wraiths assault everything that the Tau have left, wiping it out. He's got a suit team in reserve still, but that's it. Deceiver assaults back into Longfangs, killing all but two; they pass leadership.

Enemy Turn Four:
More plinking off of my monoliths. His redeemer land raider can't hurt me, his missile launchers aren't rolling sixes, and my wraiths are screened behind my monoliths. The Tau player gets his last suit team and drops them in front of my necron warriors - they all have fusion and plasma. He rolls abysmally and two warriors die.

Logan positions for an assault on my Deceiver but doesn't pull the trigger because I can leave combat. =p He's got a Lone Wolf inside the land raider, who comes wandering over towards my monoliths - he hasn't had an opportunity to try shooting me with melta yet, and I don't think he realizes that a chainfist doesn't get 2d6 against living armor. I decide to leave the C'Tan in combat this turn, and he finishes off the longfangs, and turns around to glare at Logan.

Necron Turn Four:
21 Necron Warriors rapid fire into the Tau suit team in front of them. They disappear and the Tau player packs up.
My monoliths move forward towards the SW corner and pull my wraiths through - they've suddenly covered 20" of the board, then move out 12" and pile up behind Logan and his long fang squad. My destroyer lord breaks off 2" so that he can assault the Lone Wolf - all of those assaults will leave the Lord within 2" of the wraiths, and with only two wounds...theoretically the lone wolf should go down.

I flux arc two monoliths and particle whip the third causing some dead grey hunters and long fangs. My wraiths charge in - 5 go into Logan, 4 into his grey hunter squad (with a rune priest), while the C'Tan goes into Logan. My wraiths cause 13 wounds to Logan....who passes every single one. The rune priest takes two and passes both, while the other 3 wraiths go into his long fangs, wiping them. C'Tan delivers 5 attacks into Logan, and only manages 2 wounds of the three I needed to do. DAMN IT! Logan swings back (he uses his once per game thingie that gives +1 attack to everyone, along with counter-attack) - he drops two wounds on the Deceiver, who fails one. His runepriest drops a wraith, but I end up winning combat. (I'm not sure if the Deceiver is fearless or not).

Space Wolf Turn Five:
Monoliths survive unscathed, and he is pretty much out of ranged firepower now, and in his corner, so my warriors are feeling safe. There's a 10 man unit of grey hunters hoofing it (they lost their rhino earlier) down the board that could potentially come threaten my warriors. I stay in combat with the C'Tan this turn and kill Logan. The wraiths kill the runepriest, and my destroyer lord kills the Lone Wolf.

Necron Turn Five:
My wraith fails WBB. Aww. :( I pull his unit through the monolith right behind them and still fail. Double aww. :( My warriors move up and towards my monoliths - one would be in portal distance, but the other is not. Deceiver attacks the land raider and explodes it. Wraiths eat grey hunters, now with wounded destroyer lord in tow. They get away and run off the board.

At this point, we call it - was getting late, and my total casualty count consisted of a single wraith. Two wounds on my Destroyer Lord, two wounds on Deceiver but they're still going.

Post-Game Thoughts:

There's a couple things that I'm not sure if I played right. It was a friendly game, we were drinking, it was fun....we didn't take the time to sort it out. My necrons have beaten face in a variety of situations now....its epic fun. I won't lie, I had fantastic rolls for saving - although my C'Tan's rolls to hurt things were never that hot, nor were my Destroyer Lord. And he failed two of the three wounds ever assigned to him. But my wraiths were freaking vessels of awesomesauce.

On a separate note.....if anyone out there has Tomb Spyders, I'd like to buy or trade for them! Please get in touch.

And this is why Dash of Pepper gets banned from all the LGS. He can take the worst army in the game and beat 4k with 2k.

Dash, a minor point, and a contraversial one at that, because I know not everybody agrees with this interpretation.

If you place a monolith on a unit, you can still mishap, it does not automatically push the unit out of the way. This is a result of the deep strike rules changing between the editions. So a DS monolith on top of an enemy unit can be delayed or misplaced.

Cheers

Andrew

So to get this straight, you played a match where you were outnumbered 2 to 1. And won with a loss of one Wraith? I mean you would not only have been rolling like God himself to do so, but to kill 4000 points in 5 turns?

Did you have an ally that you didn't mention or am I missing something here?

Dash: Sounds like very sound strategic thinking and play on your part, espcially in landing the Monoliths to divide out the two armies. Essentially you made it a Tau vs. Necron match up until about Turn 4, and by then there was simply nothing that could be done by the Space Wolves player as most of his stuff was essentially neutered by the Monoliths.

Effectively there is not much to comment upon your tactics. You keep the Phase Out from occuring by having the Warriors stay in reserve. Monolith deep striking was good. You made the right call to assault an army that is not CC oriented, and ripped apart the units that may of given you trouble in the Tau army.

I think the army needs stiffer competition and a broader sampling of what the Wraith Wing (and the Sypder Wing) can do. Alot of your saves have been REALLY good along with the reports I have seen you write up for your army.

There is probably a reason why Necrons don't see alot of play inside of tourneys, but from what you have been doing, maybe some people should dust off their models and return to smashing heads in with Necrons as people appear unprepared to deal with large giant Pyramids of Death.

Have you thought about mixing in some Scarabs with the Wraiths, or do you believe that all three slots need to be dedicated to the Wraiths?

lol, your opponents needed to kill, what, 2 dozen models for the phase out and they failed?

Looks like some people dont' know how to fight necron

I'm not really planning on getting my Necrons into tournament play at this time.

I'm banned from two local stores, so there's no need to bring a softer list than my already unoptimized Orks since I won't be attending any of the events anyway. I *GOT* necrons in the first place because the locals were whining that I was a cheesy WAAC gamer, and my answer was going to be to bring Necrons and continue to beat their faces in until they figured out that it wasn't me being a WAAC gamer, but their terrible tactics. Anyway, miles of drama spiraled out of that leading to me no longer being welcome in the local stores (due in large partto previously-mentioned locals threatening to boycott store if I played there). If anyone really cares, there's a link to it in my signature - over at Bald and Screaming.

Combined with the fact that I'm not sure on some of their rulings....

Combined with the fact that I'm pretty much done with competitive 40k for the year (tournament season is pretty much over unless I want to fly or drive from Florida to California or NY. Again.)

By the time my Necrons are whipped into GT painting shape, ready to rock and roll, fixed, assembled, patched and fearsome there should be a new Necron Codex out. Next year? And in the meantime I've got DE, and we're next up for a codex. In the meantime, my Necrons will be around for anyone who wants a piece.

Cool report but I have a few things I'd like to say:

You can't put the ctan anywhere you want, you just redeploy him...difference being you have to abide by the deployment rules of the scenario.

Did you move the monolith, teleport the wraiths, and then move the wraiths 12" all in the same movement phase? If so, you can't do that. The teleported unit can only move if the monlith didn't move either.

And you can push stuff out of the way with deepstriking monoliths because codex trumps BRB so nice job pushing him around.

You beat twice your amount of points with Necrons.....

You had some lucky rolling it seems, but still, good job.

Tau player tried for the phase out but 1 suit team wasn't going to phase out Dash unless he was extremely lucky on his rolls. Either way, leaving them out there to get rapid fired by 21 warriors was just suicide. I've faced that wall of fire before. Not much stands after all those gauss shots.

The broadsides running is what really killed the tau player's ability to contribute here. Those monoliths shouldn't have all survived against Tau railgun fire. Good job realizing your target priority. The plasma broadsides were a bad idea. Regular broadsides are much better, and in this battle railheads with submunitions would have been just the thing to soften the warriors. Either way he should have had more railguns on the board and less (or no fusion suits since that's just suicide).

Taking so many fire warriors outside of transports and leaving them open to assault was also not the best idea. The marine player should have screened the tau gunline or something because those firewarriors were just dead meat after deployment IMO.

Marshal_Gus wrote:And you can push stuff out of the way with deepstriking monoliths because codex trumps BRB so nice job pushing him around.

Which is why I said that many people don't agree with it. Codex only says that it is not destroyed when landing on another unit, just move them out of the way. Latest edition of rules now use mishaps, which have three results; delayed, 'misplaced' and destroyed. Codex only describes what happens for one of them, not the other two. So in this "rare" case, BRB outrules Codex, because of GWs sloppy writing styles. I would expect it to be sorted in the next codex.

Cheers

Andrew

I know this isn't much of an incentive Dash, but if you want to come to the Daboyz GT in Rochester in November I'll cover your entry fee. After all the entertainment you've given me me with these fantastic battle reports, it would be the least I can do.

About the 2,000 mile flight.....can't really help you on that one.

Yeah, Grand Illusion was played wrong. It specifies that the unit may be redeployed subject to the deployment rules for the mission. In the case of Dawn of War, that means you need to be on your own table half and at least 18" away from bad guys.

You know my feelings on the deepstriking monos from the other thread, but if your opponents were cool with it, then more power to you (it's a stupid technicality).

On your turn four you said you moved the monos forward and then pulled the wraiths through them. If either the monos or the wraiths move before teleporting, you cannot move any further with the unit you sucked through it.

On Decieve, there is nothing that says you must assault the same unit that you use it on (bonus goodies from the FAQ: you may use it on fearless units to actually make them go to ground, or if you use it to force a morale check on them and they fail, they take no retreat wounds).

Where's the Battle #6 from the Nova open? I've been waiting and I get this. Bring on the Orks already!

Maelstrom808 wrote:Yeah, Grand Illusion was played wrong. It specifies that the unit may be redeployed subject to the deployment rules for the mission. In the case of Dawn of War, that means you need to be on your own table half and at least 18" away from bad guys.

You know my feelings on the deepstriking monos from the other thread, but if your opponents were cool with it, then more power to you (it's a stupid technicality).

On your turn four you said you moved the monos forward and then pulled the wraiths through them. If either the monos or the wraiths move before teleporting, you cannot move any further with the unit you sucked through it.

On Decieve, there is nothing that says you must assault the same unit that you use it on (bonus goodies from the FAQ: you may use it on fearless units to actually make them go to ground, or if you use it to force a morale check on them and they fail, they take no retreat wounds).

Yeah... GG on beating 4k, but the C'Tan getting a first turn assault because of a misplayed Deceive is kind of a big thing against a gunline. Not trying to minimalize your win, but 16/17 3++ and a couple loose interpretations might mean you need some more test games before declaring victory across the board.

This is a big point. It was the Deceiver's quick assault that led to the Tau's downfall (the 2 deceives and the fire warrior assault). I thought that sounded very overpowered, but I don't play Necron so what do I know. If they had another round of shooting from his two broadside units and his pulse rifles, I think it would have made a huge difference

When dice go hot there's not really any tactics that can save you. Some seriously uber rolling (and some ice-cold rolling on behalf of your opponent) coupled with some solid tactical desicions won you this one.

Not sure about the Deciever's Turn 1 assault...pretty sure you played that one wrong, if you had had to stay 18" away I'm almost certain it wouldn't have been so easy to roll up his gunline.

I'd play a few more games before you make the face-beating claim at least. Otherwise...good job.

L. Wrex

Couple of notes:

-The broadsides weren't getting any shots on my Monoliths. When I deep-struck, instead of assaulting firewarriors and suits, I would have pulled myself through the monoliths and assaulted his broadsides - in a huge multi-assault involving firewarriors too. They would have run off the board without a shot anyway.

-Monoliths deep-striking onto enemy models - interestingly, I don't have an opinion here yet, except to note that some people think third edition rules should be followed, and others 5th edition rules. Apparently in third edition speak, Deceive is/was a shooting attack, but in 5th edition speak, the monolith can mishap on a deep-strike onto enemy models. I've literally had Necrons for a week now. I've not gotten involved in any of this debate yet, just played them as it made sense. With my Dark Eldar, I'm ok with RAW or RAI for *all* rules issues, as long as they all swing the same way. I'd feel the same here.

-Units teleporting through the Monolith: The codex says that models teleporting through the monolith treat it as if it were a stationary vehicle. I just looked at the FAQ, which said that they both need to not move, but then goes on to be confusing, especially in light of the Necron book's wording.

Obviously the trend here is that the necron rules are unclear. ><

With my Dark Eldar, rules always came down to two things, which I could always get answered ahead of time by a TO (RAI or RAW? IE, Nightmare Doll or Horrorfex?)

I must say, your luck was unbelievably good and your opponent's tactics were unbelievably bad. I mean, 2K from one of the least competitive armies putting the beatdown on 4K, of which 2K is from an upper-tier army? That is just downright absurd. Just the SW army by itself should've been able to crush that necron army if the player was anywhere near competent. I don't mean to berate your opponents (oh wait, actually I do), but they could sure use pointers from the forums here at dakkadakka (or any other website).

dash, wow... i'm suprised you redeployed the ctan right in front of the FW when the rules are crystal clear that you follow the normal mission deployment with the switch.

jy2 wrote:I must say, your luck was unbelievably good and your opponent's tactics were unbelievably bad. I mean, 2K from one of the least competitive armies putting the beatdown on 4K, of which 2K is from an upper-tier army? That is just downright absurd. Just the SW army by itself should've been able to crush that necron army if the player was anywhere near competent. I don't mean to berate your opponents (oh wait, actually I do), but they could sure use pointers from the forums here at dakkadakka (or any other website).

I think that runs concurrent with the general thought that Dash is ultra competitive and his opponents are not willing to push the envelope in terms of exercising the full abilities of their army and fighting using every trick at their disposal.

For instance, the Tau player did not fill up his Heavy Slots nor gave the Fire Warriors any mobility. Without said mobility, he may of well had taken Kroot for screening, defense, and infiltration, giving his line of troops fodder fire before getting smacked by a line of Wraiths and then Monoliths. Hell, forcing the Wraiths to crack open a transport and force him to spend a turn getting the Fire Warriors out of the transport would of borrowed him some time.

However, again this boils down to how Dashofpepper plays versus other players. Knowing an inherent weakness in a list, he will exploit it (for instance, Tau run away from close combat like it was fire). On turn 5 of the end of that game, all the Space Wolves were denied their mobility and their fiirepower wiffed badly versus the Monoliths. Dash excised a major strength of the Space Wolves by neutralizing his transports and taking three Monoliths to take on a strength of a SM codex list: anti-tank fire power.

That all being said, Dash will probably continue to win with his Necrons until he meets an equally challenging opponent who is prepared to fight Necrons with his list. A few things aside with rules questions and the way Necron abilities work in fifth, it was a convincing win nonetheless for the Necrons.

Awesome Report! I really like necrons and think that in the right hands can beat face! Hope to see more reports of your guys winning more games.

Now that my initial disbelief over this game is over... my hopes for the Necron race get only higher. I have to say I wasn't exactly a fan of Wraiths... but seeing what 9 of them can do in concert with a Lord is VERY impressive.

Damn Dash, you really just wrecked face.

Sad there's no pics, but good stuff as always!

This list survives off of the fact that nothing can kill your monoliths. It is a good tactic, and lots of good necron builds can be made using this idea. But when you face an opponent who has no problem punching out living metal armor 14, you will not meet with such ridiculous success.

extrenm(54) wrote:This list survives off of the fact that nothing can kill your monoliths. It is a good tactic, and lots of good necron builds can be made using this idea. But when you face an opponent who has no problem punching out living metal armor 14, you will not meet with such ridiculous success.

It's a hammer and anvil approach that does work very well as you have pointed out. Smash the enemy armies against the Monolith using the Wraiths.

It will be interesting to see though if the army loses the Wraiths in shooting and combat, how will the list win at that point.

dash, wow... i'm suprised you redeployed the ctan right in front of the FW when the rules are crystal clear that you follow the normal mission deployment with the switch.

I'm a little jealous though, because Dash's orks beat my necrons :( lol.

Dash - Yes, c'tan are fearless.

warboss wrote:dash, wow... i'm suprised you redeployed the ctan right in front of the FW when the rules are crystal clear that you follow the normal mission deployment with the switch.

You may have missed the part where I said that this was uh...the FIRST TIME I'D EVER PUT THEM ON THE TABLE? I freely admit that I don't know their rules very well yet. And that some of them are unclear. And that after looking stuff up, I had probably misplayed something. I also don't have a Necron codex yet; I was working off of memory and half of a .pdf that the guy who traded them to me gave me. Without having the FAQ.






*EDIT*
Also, a friend of mine did some math.


Assaulting into Ork boys, the boys need to statistically do 72 attacks to make a wraith dead.

72 attacks, 50% hit, 33% land, 33% get through 3++, 50% chance of WBB, 50% chance of second WBB = 1 dead wraith.

Dashofpepper wrote:Assaulting into Ork boys, the boys need to statistically do 72 attacks to make a wraith dead.

72 attacks, 50% hit, 33% land, 33% get through 3++, 50% chance of WBB, 50% chance of second WBB = 1 dead wraith.

And how would you think your Orks would do versus your Wraithwing Army?

Dashofpepper wrote:Couple of notes:

-The broadsides weren't getting any shots on my Monoliths. When I deep-struck, instead of assaulting firewarriors and suits, I would have pulled myself through the monoliths and assaulted his broadsides - in a huge multi-assault involving firewarriors too. They would have run off the board without a shot anyway.

-Monoliths deep-striking onto enemy models - interestingly, I don't have an opinion here yet, except to note that some people think third edition rules should be followed, and others 5th edition rules. Apparently in third edition speak, Deceive is/was a shooting attack, but in 5th edition speak, the monolith can mishap on a deep-strike onto enemy models. I've literally had Necrons for a week now. I've not gotten involved in any of this debate yet, just played them as it made sense. With my Dark Eldar, I'm ok with RAW or RAI for *all* rules issues, as long as they all swing the same way. I'd feel the same here.

-Units teleporting through the Monolith: The codex says that models teleporting through the monolith treat it as if it were a stationary vehicle. I just looked at the FAQ, which said that they both need to not move, but then goes on to be confusing, especially in light of the Necron book's wording.

Obviously the trend here is that the necron rules are unclear. ><

With my Dark Eldar, rules always came down to two things, which I could always get answered ahead of time by a TO (RAI or RAW? IE, Nightmare Doll or Horrorfex?)

People have to get over the fact that a rule may have worked a certain way in 3rd edition, but breaks or works completely different in 5th. A player can't pick and choose based on what they like or don't like (this goes for both the Necron player and his opponent).

On the teleporting through the monolith, it's really not too confusing if you take the time to read through all the relevent rules/FAQs (that means buy a codex slacker ). The codex first states that models teleporting through a monolith emerge from the portal as if they were disembarking from a transport (it says nothing about a stationary transport unless it's in the older printing. There is a first and second printing of the 3rd ed Necron Codex which have some glaring differences in rules.). If you look at the rules for disembarking from a transport, it tells you that if the transport moved before the unit disembarked, then the unit disembarking may not move any further. So if the monolith moved before you sucked your guys through, you can't move them any further. Later on in the necron codex it says that units phasing out to teleport through the portal may not have moved before doing so...pretty straight forward If they moved, they can't teleport at all. The FAQ backs all of this up, except it ammends the last bit in the codex by allowing you to suck a unit through the portal even if it moved, but it can not move any further, even if the monolith itself remained stationary. So to sum it up - only if both units do not move before teleporting can you move as normal afterwards, but you are always allowed to teleport them regardless of movement prior.

As a new player to 'crons you are getting a feel for the sticky areas of the rules, so you can't really be blamed for making some mistakes. Especially when you consider all the inheirant fuzzyness that comes from a 3rd edition codex in a 5th edition world, two different printings of the same codex, and a FAQ that just decides to arbitrarily change rules for kicks and giggles.

The biggest factor in defeating Necrons is if you know how to beat Necrons.

Someone has to know how to take them out and once you know how, they are in a lot of trouble. Neutralizing WWB rolls is a huge part of it, and trying for a phase out is another.

But if you are playing against new players they will always struggle against Necrons.

"Neutralizing" WBB rolls is a little difficult if the only things available to shoot have a res orb with them.

And a monolith to give them a second shot at WBB.

As Dash pointed out, it'll basically take an ork mob to down a wraith. On the charge.

xxBlazinGhostxx wrote:And a monolith to give them a second shot at WBB.

As Dash pointed out, it'll basically take an ork mob to down a wraith. On the charge.

Unless, y'know, you have power weapons. Then the number of required attacks comes WAY down, rez orb or no.

Actually, throw out those two WBB attempts. See, if an ork mob charges the 3 wraiths, it will most likely knock all three down. Unless there's another wraith within 6" of the dead ones, they're GONE - no res orbing, WBBing or monolithing. Plus, any wraiths killed by power claw or burnas on power weapon mode outside of the res orb radius are instantly removed.

Been playing crons since they came out in 3rd. They suck... hard. Luckily however, your opponents sucked harder.

-Tyr

@Tyr, I've played against a pretty good array of opponents from different venues - I wouldn't say that all my opponents suck as a means of explaining why necrons can win.

@Janthkin: Wraiths only have a single save at 3++. They don't care about power weapons. The 72 attack scenario was specifically in answer to what happened in a game last week - ork mobs getting charged by wraiths. There are many permutations of numbers regarding what it takes to kill a wraith, and all of it is theoryhammer.

@Tyr again: The whole point of my army is nine wraiths. Together. With a Rez Orb. With triple monolith support, a Destroyer Lord attached to one unit, and a C'Tan to support the trouble-making. For having played Necrons since 3rd edition, your understanding of their rules seems a bit off; I've only been playing them for a week and I know that burnas and power weapons don't automatically remove models - they have to be double toughness. And even more importantly - wraiths shouldn't fly around solo.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Personally, as an Ork and Dark Eldar player, I have no respect for necrons.

As an ork: Boarding planks, grabbin' klaws, Deffrollas, Ghazghkull Thraka.....Deffkoptas scouting in for early assaults....my burnas have a fun time too.

As Dark Eldar: Monoliths can shrug off lance weapons, but all those lances can then turn on the necrons and do bad things to them. And besides, who needs lances against a monolith when they can only move 6" and you have 30 haywire grenades in your army?

Dashofpepper wrote:
Personally, as an EXPERIENCED and SKILLED Ork and Dark Eldar player, I have no respect for necrons.

Fixed it for ya!

I thought somewhere along the line your army faced an Ork Kan Wall army of 500 points over your army list and you still mopped the opponent up with Wraiths eating through his boyz and kanz.

Not every list is going to beat your Necrons, especially if the lists are not optimized to face a Necron list along the lines of what a tournament competitive list would look like.

EDIT: Look at my Necron list from earlier. It is nowhere near as tweaked as your list to be that competitive. It is decent, but still needs work.

Unless you've got some different printing of the dex, power weapons will remove the ability to WBB on crons. And if the wraiths are all running together, blow them apart at range, or multi-assault them, and assault the lord.

Without a first-turn assaulting c'tan, this army will play a lot differently. Unless you play with a lot of LOS blocking terrain, most armies will simple shoot the crap out of the wraiths and lord while the deceiver runs at 7-12" across the table at them. 9 wraiths is essentially the same as taking out 9 marines. Just don't use lascannons on them. Save those for the lord or the deceiver.

I wasn't clear. Not saying ALL your opponents sucked. But the ones in this batrep? Yeah, they were pretty lame. Again though, I'm betting things would've gone a lot different without the first turn c'tan assault (understandable mistake, it was your first game with them).

-Tyr

Tyr wrote:Unless you've got some different printing of the dex, power weapons will remove the ability to WBB on crons. And if the wraiths are all running together, blow them apart at range, or multi-assault them, and assault the lord.

Without a first-turn assaulting c'tan, this army will play a lot differently. Unless you play with a lot of LOS blocking terrain, most armies will simple shoot the crap out of the wraiths and lord while the deceiver runs at 7-12" across the table at them. 9 wraiths is essentially the same as taking out 9 marines. Just don't use lascannons on them. Save those for the lord or the deceiver.

I wasn't clear. Not saying ALL your opponents sucked. But the ones in this batrep? Yeah, they were pretty lame. Again though, I'm betting things would've gone a lot different without the first turn c'tan assault (understandable mistake, it was your first game with them).

-Tyr

On point 1, he overrides the power weapons eliminating WBB roles by having his Destroyer Lord carry around a Res Orb, which negates the negative aspects of the WBB role so long as the unit is within 6 inches of the Lord carrying the Orb.

EDIT: Staring to sound like a Dashofpepper apologist.

never mind.

WarOne wrote:

Tyr wrote:Unless you've got some different printing of the dex, power weapons will remove the ability to WBB on crons. And if the wraiths are all running together, blow them apart at range, or multi-assault them, and assault the lord.

Without a first-turn assaulting c'tan, this army will play a lot differently. Unless you play with a lot of LOS blocking terrain, most armies will simple shoot the crap out of the wraiths and lord while the deceiver runs at 7-12" across the table at them. 9 wraiths is essentially the same as taking out 9 marines. Just don't use lascannons on them. Save those for the lord or the deceiver.

I wasn't clear. Not saying ALL your opponents sucked. But the ones in this batrep? Yeah, they were pretty lame. Again though, I'm betting things would've gone a lot different without the first turn c'tan assault (understandable mistake, it was your first game with them).

-Tyr

On point 1, he overrides the power weapons eliminating WBB roles by having his Destroyer Lord carry around a Res Orb, which negates the negative aspects of the WBB role so long as the unit is within 6 inches of the Lord carrying the Orb.

EDIT: Staring to sound like a Dashofpepper apologist.

I realize that. Maybe I misread what was being said. I thought he thought that an attack had to be double toughness to negate a WBB, but that power weapons still allowed one (which they don't). Of course, if a living model is within 6" of a res orb, then everyone gets WBB saves no matter what. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

-Tyr

Maelstrom808 wrote:

On the teleporting through the monolith, it's really not too confusing if you take the time to read through all the relevent rules/FAQs (that means buy a codex slacker ). The codex first states that models teleporting through a monolith emerge from the portal as if they were disembarking from a transport (it says nothing about a stationary transport unless it's in the older printing. There is a first and second printing of the 3rd ed Necron Codex which have some glaring differences in rules.). If you look at the rules for disembarking from a transport, it tells you that if the transport moved before the unit disembarked, then the unit disembarking may not move any further. So if the monolith moved before you sucked your guys through, you can't move them any further. Later on in the necron codex it says that units phasing out to teleport through the portal may not have moved before doing so...pretty straight forward If they moved, they can't teleport at all. The FAQ backs all of this up, except it ammends the last bit in the codex by allowing you to suck a unit through the portal even if it moved, but it can not move any further, even if the monolith itself remained stationary. So to sum it up - only if both units do not move before teleporting can you move as normal afterwards, but you are always allowed to teleport them regardless of movement prior.

Woah, Monolith teleporting acting as transport disembarking?

I missed this post, but I am certain that Monolith teleporting still allows for assaults, correct?

It says the unit disembarks as if leaving a stationary vehicle, so I'm assuming they can assault the turn they arrive. Not 100% sure on this, so I'd defer to the rules experts.

-Tyr

My codex (second printing) says transport, not stationary transport, but as long as nobody moved before the teleport, I think you are good.

Ahh, see I looked it up on scribd (I'm at work). That's probably the old 3rd ed printing that says stationary transport.

If its just transport, then I would think as long as neither the lith or crons moved before the port, you're good. If either moved or deep struck, you just deploy 2" away.

But again, I'm no RAW expert.

-Tyr

That's pretty nuts. I've got two questions because this has never happened to me in a game. Do monoliths mishap when they deepstrike? On the turn they deepstrike can they pull things through them and can those models assault? That's a scary scenario, and I think it's what Dash was suggesting was his back up strategy. Deepstrike monoliths. Pull wraiths through monoliths. Assault with wraiths neutralizing tau shooting. Broken Tau bodies litter the field of battle.

Yeah definately if either moved before hand you are stuck with just the 2" deployment, using the rule breakdown I posted above combined with an assault move is still a move.

You couldn't assault out a Rhino if it had moved, could you?

Heh, I'll be more impressed with a win of this magnitude when the rules are being played correctly. Personally, I wouldn't savor a win that resulted directly from rules errors but YMMV.

A well tuned Tau list with the proper number of Rail Cannons will seriously hurt this list.

Monster Rain wrote:You couldn't assault out a Rhino if it had moved, could you?

No, because it doesn't have a rule saying you can. The Necron Codex does, however, and nothing in the Errata changes this.

Gwar! wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:You couldn't assault out a Rhino if it had moved, could you?

No, because it doesn't have a rule saying you can. The Necron Codex does, however, and nothing in the Errata changes this.

Huh?

"Q. Can a Necron unit that teleports through a
Monolith’s portal move after emerging?
A. Only if the Monolith (and the teleporting unit)
hasn’t already moved that Movement phase. If the
unit has already moved before being teleported,
it may only be deployed within 2" of the portal; if
it hasn’t already moved, it may deploy out 2" and
then move normally."

Pretty clear to me that they can't. It makes them just like marines in a rhino.



Edit:
irk. Sorry, Dash; congrats on a win on the first attempt. It's always odd how your threads turn into massive rules debates.

phillosmaster wrote:That's pretty nuts. I've got two questions because this has never happened to me in a game. Do monoliths mishap when they deepstrike? On the turn they deepstrike can they pull things through them and can those models assault? That's a scary scenario, and I think it's what Dash was suggesting was his back up strategy. Deepstrike monoliths. Pull wraiths through monoliths. Assault with wraiths neutralizing tau shooting. Broken Tau bodies litter the field of battle.

Monoliths mishapping is a pretty touchy subject with a lot of people. RAW in 5th edition says they can still mishap, but if you roll a destroyed result after mishapping onto enemy models, you push them out of the way instead. RAI is pretty clear that monolith was not intended to mishap from landing on enemy units. It's just one of the cruddy technicalities that comes from having a 3rd edition codex in 5th edition rules.

If the monlith deepstrike, no the teleported unit cannot move after teleporting as the monolith counts as having moved at cruising speed, and if the monolith moves before it teleports a unit, that unit may only deploy the standard 2" and may not move any further.

WarOne wrote:
On point 1, he overrides the power weapons eliminating WBB roles by having his Destroyer Lord carry around a Res Orb, which negates the negative aspects of the WBB role so long as the unit is within 6 inches of the Lord carrying the Orb.

EDIT: Staring to sound like a Dashofpepper apologist.

Is there a rule somewhere saying that power weapons negate WBB rolls?

AP1, AP2, and power weapons negate armor saves....and my understanding is that double toughness shots and weapons that cause instant death negate WBB rolls, which I offset by having a rez orb handy. Is there more?

So a monolith has a 14" (deployment 2" + movement 6"+ assault 6") threat range for assault even on the turn it deepstrikes?

Appended: Thanks for the clarification Maelstrom808. Deepstriking liths counts as moving cruising speed. That seems less ridiculous.

I thought in the WBB rules it says that if you negate an armor save it negates WBB. If that's not true then we played that wrong this weekend when my Inquisitor was chopping up cron warriors with his eviscerator.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Is there a rule somewhere saying that power weapons negate WBB rolls?

AP1, AP2, and power weapons negate armor saves....and my understanding is that double toughness shots and weapons that cause instant death negate WBB rolls, which I offset by having a rez orb handy. Is there more?

errata

"Q. Do Necrons destroyed in close combat by any
attack that cancels armour saves count as being
destroyed with power weapons?
A. Yes, and therefore they cannot make a WBB
roll. This is also the case with rending claws,
Sisters of Battle rolling a 6 for the ‘divine
guidance’ Act of Faith (although divine guidance
used in the Shooting phase has no effect upon
WBB) and so on."

THAT IS NOT ERRATA. Nor was the first one.

The 2nd one just re-states RaW.

Maelstrom808 wrote:

If they deepstrike, no they cannot pull anything through as it counts as having moved at cruising speed

Where do you get this from? The Monolith rule says that it may ALWAYS use the power matrix to teleport a unit through.

Moving monolith followed by teleporting models not being able to *also* move is clear in context of the FAQ which removes the "always treat monolith as stationary" which I've read now - They should have left it alone; it was clearly written and didn't need clarification.

But my Monoliths can still deep strike, pull wraiths through, who then assault. I'm just going to have to tweak how I use them.

Dashofpepper wrote:

WarOne wrote:
On point 1, he overrides the power weapons eliminating WBB roles by having his Destroyer Lord carry around a Res Orb, which negates the negative aspects of the WBB role so long as the unit is within 6 inches of the Lord carrying the Orb.

EDIT: Staring to sound like a Dashofpepper apologist.

Is there a rule somewhere saying that power weapons negate WBB rolls?

AP1, AP2, and power weapons negate armor saves....and my understanding is that double toughness shots and weapons that cause instant death negate WBB rolls, which I offset by having a rez orb handy. Is there more?

I think you may of thought I said power weapons absolutely ignore WBB even with Res Orb.

WBB can be negated by attacks in CC that allow no armor saves.

Power weapons do not allow armor saves.

But a Resurrection Orb negates the negative aspects of WBB via the removal of the conditions for not being able to come back via WBB.

So in short, WBB and Resurrection Orb are double negatives. Resurrection Orb allows WBB roles under just about any circumstance.

So the Res Orb bypasses Power weapons ignoring WBB.

EDIT:

And as for the Monolith question, Gwar! saved you guys the trouble with this thread here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/314493.page

Gwar! wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:You couldn't assault out a Rhino if it had moved, could you?

No, because it doesn't have a rule saying you can. The Necron Codex does, however, and nothing in the Errata changes this.

The official GW FAQ spells it out though, so those of us with a modicum of sense will adhere to their ruling.

Also, the most recent printing of the codex doesn't use the word stationary.

Edited for autocorrect fail. Stupid phone...

Dashofpepper wrote:

Maelstrom808 wrote:

If they deepstrike, no they cannot pull anything through as it counts as having moved at cruising speed

Where do you get this from? The Monolith rule says that it may ALWAYS use the power matrix to teleport a unit through.

Moving monolith followed by teleporting models not being able to *also* move is clear in context of the FAQ which removes the "always treat monolith as stationary" which I've read now - They should have left it alone; it was clearly written and didn't need clarification.

But my Monoliths can still deep strike, pull wraiths through, who then assault. I'm just going to have to tweak how I use them.

I wrote the first part of that wrong and edited it, but no, by RAW with the most up to date rules, you cannot deepstrike, pull, and have the unit you pulled assault.

Dashofpepper wrote:@Janthkin: Wraiths only have a single save at 3++. They don't care about power weapons. The 72 attack scenario was specifically in answer to what happened in a game last week - ork mobs getting charged by wraiths. There are many permutations of numbers regarding what it takes to kill a wraith, and all of it is theoryhammer.

Just an FYI Dash, Wraiths (and consequently C'Tan as well) have BOTH an armor save and an invul save of the same property. So wraiths do have a 3+ and a 3++ and C'tan have a 4+/4++. And it does absolutely matter for the wraiths because power weapons will STILL negate WBB against them if they are killed by one, they simply get an invul save for it. So, no WBB, no porting (unless res orb present).

This was interesting, though I do look forward to a more 'proper' fight.

On a related note if you do make it out to the Da Boyz GT in November, wear a Capt Morgans shirt so I can find you and shake your hand! I really enjoy your bat reps and their insight has helped me to improve my own game as well.

I called my Tau friend and told him that I cheated him Saturday, so we'll need a rematch. =p

Dashofpepper wrote:I called my Tau friend and told him that I cheated him Saturday, so we'll need a rematch. =p

Make sure next time you cheat him in a less obvious manner.

Edit: That was meant to be a good-natured poke, but might not be obvious as it is the internet. So yeah. Here's me making it obvious.

Tell him to take more railguns, and if he's going to let his troops get assaulted than take some kroot.

I think it will be a much more exciting battle now, and not just a C'Tan kill fest.

phillosmaster wrote:Tell him to take more railguns, and if he's going to let his troops get assaulted than take some kroot.

I think it will be a much more exciting battle now, and not just a C'Tan kill fest.

^ This

Bubble wrap is key if you are going to do foot tau.

If not foot tau, get him to mount up.

Clubbing poor baby tau seals is only so amusing for so long.

Not to belittle the win at all, as winning with necrons is challenging, but i stopped reading the batrep when i saw the tau player took 2 ion cannon hammerheads, and not 1 railheads and broadsides .... if he had done that your monos woulda been dust. and then hes fighting a 1250 pt army ....

kill dem stunties wrote:Not to belittle the win at all, as winning with necrons is challenging, but i stopped reading the batrep when i saw the tau player took 2 ion cannon hammerheads, and not 1 railheads and broadsides .... if he had done that your monos woulda been dust. and then hes fighting a 1250 pt army ....

Throw in some Pathfinders just to make sure. Hitting on 2's isn't bad in that situation!

exactly. I didn't see the word markerlight anywhere in the batrep. This looked like a really soft Tau list. Unless that carbine firewarrior squad was a unit of pathfinders and you just killed them very early on.

Dashofpepper wrote:I called my Tau friend and told him that I cheated him Saturday, so we'll need a rematch. =p

You didn't cheat him, it's an honest mistake. I make rules mistakes all the time and I've been back in the game for over a year now. I remember my first game with my Tau when I thought that shield drones gave 4+ invulnerables to the entire unit they were attached to (ala star wars episode 1). It was a friendly after all...

Either way, the SW should have done better than they did as most any MEQ army is a good thrasher against necrons.

IMO, that's how Shield Drones should work...

As for the doom and gloom of Ion Heads....if DoP took the more traditional, Destroyer Swarm, I think there would be a different tune as the Ionheads are pretty effective vs. them.

It's not always about beating the WBB, just getting them down as frequently as you can is all you really want/can to do in the Tau player's position.

So, to summarize:

1. DashofPepper had a good list (lord knows I've been harping on Wraiths for long enough).
2. His opponents, particularly the Tau, had poor lists.
3. Cheating by omission in DashofPepper's favour. Not his fault, he just wasn't 100% on the rules.
4. Extraordinary good lucky favoured DashofPepper.

Did I miss anything?

Nurglitch wrote:Did I miss anything?

5) Ye Olde Dasho'Pepper Brand e-Drama.

5.) By turn 4 the SWs had done nothing to help the Tau allowing Dash to pick them off one at a time. Not sure what happened there. Looks like possibly bad deployment.

Gwar! wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:Did I miss anything?

5) Ye Olde Dasho'Pepper Brand e-Drama.

Yeah, I don't get all the e-hate. The guy's obviously competitive and apparently good at the game. As a fairly poor player, I'd never play him but I applaud him excelling at the game.

I'd play against dash with my necrons. It would probably be a very boring fight though.

Guys shoot, knock some down, they get back up, next turn, repeat. Assaults happen, people go down, get back up, assaults continue...blah.

Pics or it didn't happen...

I dunno what this batrep is all about but...

1. Close combat necrons doesnt work. I dont care how many baby seals you smack down. 9 models form the speartip (indeed almost the entire spear) of your (highly suspect) attack? Any seasoned player would have a feild day here.

2. You maul two players' combined 4000pts with 2000 with very little losses? So, they're horrible players? Yea, thought so.

3. A 1st turn assaulting C'tan? You dont see the possibility of an error in this? I'd have the rules ON HAND before I attempted some garbage like this.

4. Deepstrike, teleport, assault=highly suspect. I'm not up on the current Necron FAQ/ERRATA/RULES IN GENERAL (mostly due to phasing them out quickly when I've faced them in the past) but I'll be checking that one out when I get home. Again, another rule that you should have ONHAND before you try.

The thing is, you're playing a game where your turn one, and deepstriking assaults are essentially unstoppable. Dash, C'mon, you've been playing 40k for a minute now. Are we really trying to say that Necrons have the best assault delivery system in the game?

Before you go around smashing noobs, then posting your triumph on the internet...I'd suggest you get the rules down pat. My mouth dropped open reading this "Batrep".....and that isnt a good thing.

This post isnt a flame Dash (I consider you a good aquaintance and our corrospondence has been pretty good since SVDM), I just found this "Batrep" ludicrous and the guys giving you props even more off their rockers!



Morale of story

Get the rules before you attempt crazy Sh!t

Kevin949 wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:@Janthkin: Wraiths only have a single save at 3++. They don't care about power weapons. The 72 attack scenario was specifically in answer to what happened in a game last week - ork mobs getting charged by wraiths. There are many permutations of numbers regarding what it takes to kill a wraith, and all of it is theoryhammer.

Just an FYI Dash, Wraiths (and consequently C'Tan as well) have BOTH an armor save and an invul save of the same property. So wraiths do have a 3+ and a 3++ and C'tan have a 4+/4++. And it does absolutely matter for the wraiths because power weapons will STILL negate WBB against them if they are killed by one, they simply get an invul save for it. So, no WBB, no porting (unless res orb present).

C'tan don't have the normal armour save, as the FAQs say...

Does a Wraith have both an armour save and
an invulnerable save?
A. Yes, a Wraith has a 3+ armour save and a 3+
invulnerable save.

This is for wraiths only. 4++ only folks!

Sanctjud wrote:As for the doom and gloom of Ion Heads....if DoP took the more traditional, Destroyer Swarm, I think there would be a different tune as the Ionheads are pretty effective vs. them.

It's not always about beating the WBB, just getting them down as frequently as you can is all you really want/can to do in the Tau player's position.

I'd still rather have 2 railheads, and switch them to submunitions if the situation calls for it, but I see what you are saying about the Ionheads. My preference is to load up rails in my heavies. With lack of prior enemy knowledge it will help rejects lists that spam AV14. Also you can get lots of str 5-7 in the other FOC slots.

phillosmaster wrote:

Sanctjud wrote:As for the doom and gloom of Ion Heads....if DoP took the more traditional, Destroyer Swarm, I think there would be a different tune as the Ionheads are pretty effective vs. them.

It's not always about beating the WBB, just getting them down as frequently as you can is all you really want/can to do in the Tau player's position.

I'd still rather have 2 railheads, and switch them to submunitions if the situation calls for it, but I see what you are saying about the Ionheads. My preference is to load up rails in my heavies. With lack of prior enemy knowledge it will help rejects lists that spam AV14. Also you can get lots of str 5-7 in the other FOC slots.

I don't think that Ion Heads are bad. Hell, 2 squads of Broadsides and an Ion Head is pretty fething nasty against Necrons. At least in my experience...

I'm not saying Ion cannons are bad. Two squads of broadsides and 1 Ionhead would be the way to do it. That's not a bad loadout. You have the possibility of 6 railgun shots cracking enemy heavy armor. I guess it's preference, but I'd still rather have a third railgun unit at 2000 points though. AV14 spam is not uncommon at that level.

YmeLocSquirrel256 wrote:C'tan don't have the normal armour save, as the FAQs say...

Does a Wraith have both an armour save and
an invulnerable save?
A. Yes, a Wraith has a 3+ armour save and a 3+
invulnerable save.

This is for wraiths only. 4++ only folks!

It is not an issue for c'tan as it for wraiths anyway, and I know the FAQ is only for wraiths which is why I didn't apply it (at all) in my statement. Even still, there is nowhere that specifies they only have an invul save, just that they have one. And seeing as their stats are portrayed the exact same way as everyone else and they simply have a rule that states they receive an invul save, one could discern they do in fact have an armor save as well. Though it is a moot point for c'tan.

Deadshane....

I've said this repeatedly now:

I don't know the rules so well. I don't plan on playing Necrons competitively. I have enough bragging rights from the things in my signature block; this batrep was just a lolfest. It was fun to play, and ridiculous that I made 99% of my saves. I thought I would share. There's even a big smiley face in the title of the thread. The reaction I was after was, "Lol, wtf?!?"

Dashofpepper wrote:The reaction I was after was, "Lol, wtf?!?"

Oh that's the reaction I had alright, but perhaps for different reasons...

I'm surprised that you didn't expect the reaction of "Wow, that game was a rules clusterfeth. I'm surprised you got away with it." Anyway, I think it's more or less positive that you brought it up on the forum so that you can learn how to play your new army.

Rules-mistakes aside, there is no reason other than super-luck that an army like necrons can beat a force double their size and with space wolves as well.

That would require super-luck, 1 very skilled necron player, and 2 noobs as the opponents as well. I mean, c'mon, on turn 1 there was only about 1K on necrons versus 4K of Tau/SW. I'm not sure what the SW player was doing while the necrons were decimating the Tau. Monoliths block their way? Join Logan to some long fangs and then you have S10 lascannons + S9 missile launchers. Space wolves also have enough assault/shooting to take out what essentially are 9 jetbike marines w/FNP (the wraiths).

I'm not going to say this is a good game. It's an aberration of a game and most likely won't happen again....ever....unless you play against another 2 incompetent players again.....and have just as much luck.

Sorry for the rant. Not to take anything away from your win Dash, it's just that sometimes it's frustrating to see other players play so badly.

I'm really glad he posted the battle because it I for one learned a lot more about the Necron rules for monoliths and the deceiver. I think using the word incompetent is a bit harsh. Inexperience sure, but I wouldn't call someone incompetent unless they failed to learn from their losses. These guys just sounded new, and he qualified it as a friendly game (I mean he did let them outnumber him 2 to 1). That's what it sounded like to me anyway. Sure Dash shouldn't put a feather in his cap over this game, but we shouldn't flames the other dudes who sound like they are still learning their armies. Rules mistakes aside (and they both sound like honest mistakes..they certainly confused me), I just hope the Tau player learned something about playing gunline Tau because it would be a shame if he walked away thinking Tau suck (they aren't the best army by far but they aren't the worst, and they should certainly be able to hold their own against necron).

Tau is a good army, especially if run by a good general. As a matter of fact, I think Tau are better than Necrons. Space Wolves are definitely better than both given that all generals are competent with their armies.

I apologize if I've offended anyone by calling Dash's opponents "noobs" and "incompetent". I just hope that they can improve their play in the future, either by playing against Dash again (you can only get better by playing against someone better) or by browsing the forums online. From what I've read so far, I'm sure Dash will give them many pointers on how to play better.

And for those saying that Dash inadvertantly "cheated" with his necrons, I'd say his opponents inadvertantly cheated by having 2000pts more then him.

Dash had good rolls, and his opponents had bad rolls. Plus the Necrons I believe suprised both players against whom Dash made them pay. If there is one thing a good general can do is make an opponent pay for mistakes, and Dash made both players pay for bad rolls and a few advantages his opponents could not neutralize.

seems to me that the wraiths can only assault out of the monolith the turn following the deep strike. teleporting a giant ziggurat onto the battlefield seems like movement to me, and deepstrike + teleport + assault seems broken to me.

hemingway wrote:seems to me that the wraiths can only assault out of the monolith the turn following the deep strike. teleporting a giant ziggurat onto the battlefield seems like movement to me, and deepstrike + teleport + assault seems broken to me.

Well yeah, and the fact that the FAQ says that you can't do it would pretty much wrap this argument up in a neat little bow.

Woot finaly you joined the Red Harvest all will flee before us um I mean you but gg hilarious game

Yeah....

Neither of my opponents were bad players. The Tau player was a bit rusty, but the Space Wolf player regularly fights me to draws, and sometimes a win. I'd count him as a gaming peer. To his disadvantage, he doesn't know Necron rules any better than I do. Also to his disadvantage, none of his dice rolls did what they needed to against my AV14.

Kevin949 wrote:

YmeLocSquirrel256 wrote:C'tan don't have the normal armour save, as the FAQs say...

Does a Wraith have both an armour save and
an invulnerable save?
A. Yes, a Wraith has a 3+ armour save and a 3+
invulnerable save.

This is for wraiths only. 4++ only folks!

It is not an issue for c'tan as it for wraiths anyway, and I know the FAQ is only for wraiths which is why I didn't apply it (at all) in my statement. Even still, there is nowhere that specifies they only have an invul save, just that they have one. And seeing as their stats are portrayed the exact same way as everyone else and they simply have a rule that states they receive an invul save, one could discern they do in fact have an armor save as well. Though it is a moot point for c'tan.

Still, either way, it's great you have the invulnerable save anyway, i was probably wrong, considering that i haven't played for aeons, and I was getting half of that info from the rulebook (which can sometimes be ).

And remember, dash, that everything except the lord's abilities comes as standard, so, apart from a good WBB roll, you can get kinda bored with them easily. And there isn't too much choice when it comes to units, either. Slightly more of a defensive army than an offensive army i'd say. None-the-less, there are some good tricks that help make your army even better, than compared to IG for example, with the consequence of high point prices, barely any wargear, so you can downgrade and get more models, and few choices of army, especially at an amateur, 500pt game. 1 choice only!

Me: All you get is (dakka darts commentator: let's! play! daaaarrttss!):

Me: 1 Necron Lord complete with Resurrection Orb (a must), and Warscythe (optional). - 150pts (audience: oooohhhhhh)

Me: 1 Necron Warrior x10 - 180pts (dakka darts commentator: one-hundred n' eighty!)

Me: 1 Necron Warrior x10 - 180pts (dakka darts commentator: one-hundred n' eighty!)

Me: You get the idea, power, but in large quantities for a large price, resulting in a small army. hth!

That's all folks! (dakka darts commentator: until next time...)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Good luck Dash!

Just to throw in a couple of questions that seem apt.

Necron Warriors have a specific reserves rule in the Codex, if their held in reserve then they must come on via a portal. Would that not have meant that Dash couldn't have walked them on and should have brought them on via a 'lith?

WBB via portals. If a unit is wiped out, but due to a res orb and or nearby unit is allowed a wbb but fails. How does the portal work? IE which unit has to be pulled through to allow the reroll? A destroyed unit doesn't exist and can't be targetted, ergo can't be picked for teleportation and if you pick the 'supporting' unit then the downed Necrons might not be within 6"

Cheers

Andrew

That is ridiculous.

I think it's just that we expect (though we shouldn't but it's easy to do so) a higher level of play from Dash. Or at least a tighter game than this 'lol, wtf' fight, esp. with the recent Bat Reps he's been cranking out.

In addition, most of the 'vets' lets say, do not fudge up the rules so bad (even if Dash had put the disclaimer that he wasn't clear on rules......though IMO that's a big rules fudge-up with the C'Tan) and a good round of rolling is funny but I guess some people took the title as a bit rude to your opponents and somewhat misleading even with the Smiley face.

But honestly, my reaction to the C'Tan issue was: "really...did the opponents challenge this? Did you consult the codex/rulebook/ ask how to do it from the opponents?" It's just so...... off, that's it wierd. In addition, it could have been a big portion of why you won. You scared the crap out of them with a T8 MC that's not supposed to be in their face Turn 1...and the intent was for him to get there later in the game, allowing the opponent to decide where to allocate their shooting (do they deal with the C'Tan now, or later?, etc.).

So...... yea, I would rather see this sink and move on to waiting for a proper fight...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@AndrewC:
I brought this issue up a bit ago.... I think they read the rules as you can choose between the two... but I'm not so sure that's the way it works out as you question.

Dashofpepper wrote:Deadshane....

I've said this repeatedly now:

I don't know the rules so well. I don't plan on playing Necrons competitively. I have enough bragging rights from the things in my signature block; this batrep was just a lolfest. It was fun to play, and ridiculous that I made 99% of my saves. I thought I would share. There's even a big smiley face in the title of the thread. The reaction I was after was, "Lol, wtf?!?"

Yea, but the whole point is, people READ your batreps...they're good. Lots o' pics, fun to read.

You may have 'just a little' responsibility to "get it right". These are BIG rules issues.

The first time I bump into a Necron opponent at a GT and he tries to deepstrike a monolith then 'port some guys thru after he first turn charges a Deceiver at me because "Dashofpepper did it on dakka" I'm coming over to your table and polishing off your Cap'n w/o asking.

Again, please consider this a 'Buddy' giving you sh!t.

P.S. finding the rules isnt that hard. Its just a Google "Necron FAQ" search away....

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1180146_Necrons_FAQ_2004-08_5th_Edition.pdf

Dash, with all love, it does behoove a player to study his own codex and faq before taking it to tables and writing batreps.

You know I luff you.

Yeah, none of my trading partners were kind enough to trade me a codex with my models. >< I've got half of a ragged stapled together copy of a pdf that one of them gave me. =p And I don't know where it is, so we played from Necron rule memory.

I can't stress enough that this was an instance of "Dashofpepper has new toys" and friends were over to my house, so I put them down on the table!


Something I didn't mention: I had to proxy half the army. My wraiths are either not assembled yet or mismatched in color from trades. I had scarab swarms proxying as a few of them. My third monolith was a pink princess hat from Medieval Times. Ghazghkull Thraka played the part of the Deceiver.

I fully recognize that I didn't know their rules very well. I actually decided to GET Necrons because I figured they'd be better trade material than my Tau for getting Space Marines. Sanctjud, you won't see any proper Necron batreps; I've retired from writing them, and came out of retirement specifically for the Nova Open.

I like the new title.

Dashofpepper wrote:Sanctjud, you won't see any proper Necron batreps; I've retired from writing them, and came out of retirement specifically for the Nova Open.

/Sad Panda Face.

Dashofpepper wrote:
Something I didn't mention: I had to proxy half the army. My wraiths are either not assembled yet or mismatched in color from trades. I had scarab swarms proxying as a few of them. My third monolith was a pink princess hat from Medieval Times. Ghazghkull Thraka played the part of the Deceiver.

You werent playing WYSIWYG? You frigging cheezin' cheater!

Dashofpepper wrote:Yeah, none of my trading partners were kind enough to trade me a codex with my models. >< I've got half of a ragged stapled together copy of a pdf that one of them gave me. =p And I don't know where it is, so we played from Necron rule memory.

I can't stress enough that this was an instance of "Dashofpepper has new toys" and friends were over to my house, so I put them down on the table!

I fully recognize that I didn't know their rules very well. I actually decided to GET Necrons because I figured they'd be better trade material than my Tau for getting Space Marines. Sanctjud, you won't see any proper Necron batreps; I've retired from writing them, and came out of retirement specifically for the Nova Open.

Then...why bother writing this as a "battle report" and not just a thread in the discussion forum about how much fun you had playing necrons?

whitedragon wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:Yeah, none of my trading partners were kind enough to trade me a codex with my models. >< I've got half of a ragged stapled together copy of a pdf that one of them gave me. =p And I don't know where it is, so we played from Necron rule memory.

I can't stress enough that this was an instance of "Dashofpepper has new toys" and friends were over to my house, so I put them down on the table!

I fully recognize that I didn't know their rules very well. I actually decided to GET Necrons because I figured they'd be better trade material than my Tau for getting Space Marines. Sanctjud, you won't see any proper Necron batreps; I've retired from writing them, and came out of retirement specifically for the Nova Open.

Then...why bother writing this as a "battle report" and not just a thread in the discussion forum about how much fun you had playing necrons?

Well you see.....if I were to just write a thread about how fun my Necrons were to play.....that would go in General Discussion. If I write a thread about a particular game, the development throughout, the tactics and units used IN the game to achieve particular ends.....well, that goes in a different forum called, "40k battle reports." If this thread offends you, feel free to GTFO.

AndrewC wrote:Just to throw in a couple of questions that seem apt.

Necron Warriors have a specific reserves rule in the Codex, if their held in reserve then they must come on via a portal. Would that not have meant that Dash couldn't have walked them on and should have brought them on via a 'lith?

WBB via portals. If a unit is wiped out, but due to a res orb and or nearby unit is allowed a wbb but fails. How does the portal work? IE which unit has to be pulled through to allow the reroll? A destroyed unit doesn't exist and can't be targetted, ergo can't be picked for teleportation and if you pick the 'supporting' unit then the downed Necrons might not be within 6"

Cheers

Andrew

No, they don't HAVE to come in through the monolith. It's in the FAQ on GW's website, you can choose. But, if you say they are coming in from the board edge or the lith, they HAVE to come in that way, you can't switch when their deployment time comes.

If that unit is 100% wiped out, you get no extra WBB for porting the "supporting" unit so any warriors that failed are gone.

My warriors will pretty much always walk on the board I think. If I need to later portal them onto an objective, but any initial portaling I think is always going to be reserved for wraiths.

However, I've got 6 tomb spyders now and three more in the mail to me.

Actually, you first two Warrior units (the compulsory ones) CANNOT come in by portal. The rule specifically says 'excess'.

The Grog wrote:Actually, you first two Warrior units (the compulsory ones) CANNOT come in by portal. The rule specifically says 'excess'.

You're mixing up pieces of the rules here.

The Codex says:

Necron Codex wrote:
Reserves: Any Warrior units in excess of the minimum required by the FOC for the mission being played may begin the game in reserve whether the Reserves special rule is in use or not. When they arrive they must emerge from a Monolith portal...

This allowed Necrons to reserve units in previous editions when it was not a default allowed condition (as it is in 5th edition). It is permitting you to reserve in any mission where you normally can't, not restricting you to just that method of reserve.

Dashofpepper wrote:Well you see.....if I were to just write a thread about how fun my Necrons were to play.....that would go in General Discussion. If I write a thread about a particular game, the development throughout, the tactics and units used IN the game to achieve particular ends.....well, that goes in a different forum called, "40k battle reports." If this thread offends you, feel free to GTFO.

Unsolicited hostility aside, my point was that if you had posted this in the Discussion forum, or even the tactics forum, you would have gotten alot less "scrutiny" over some of the finer points of the this particular game, such as the lack of a codex, the two players' skill levels, etc.

You could have then indeed focused more on the things you did learn, such as how well the wraiths, deceiver, and monoliths work.

pretre wrote:

The Grog wrote:Actually, you first two Warrior units (the compulsory ones) CANNOT come in by portal. The rule specifically says 'excess'.

You're mixing up pieces of the rules here.

The Codex says:

Necron Codex wrote:
Reserves: Any Warrior units in excess of the minimum required by the FOC for the mission being played may begin the game in reserve whether the Reserves special rule is in use or not. When they arrive they must emerge from a Monolith portal...

This allowed Necrons to reserve units in previous editions when it was not a default allowed condition (as it is in 5th edition). It is permitting you to reserve in any mission where you normally can't, not restricting you to just that method of reserve.

Exactly. Since the minimum number of warriors that you have to deploy at the beginning is zero, you may bring all warrior squads in excess of zero in through the Monolith.

Unless, of course, you are playing some kind of wacky scenario.

What? How is the minimum zero when you have to have 2 squads of at least 10 each?

I took it to mean that it was the minimum required to be deployed, not the minimum for the FOC. Maybe that's not right?

Back in the day you always had to start with 2 troops and a HQ on the board, but you don't anymore.

Monster Rain wrote:

pretre wrote:
The Codex says:

Necron Codex wrote:
Reserves: Any Warrior units in excess of the minimum required by the FOC for the mission being played may begin the game in reserve whether the Reserves special rule is in use or not. When they arrive they must emerge from a Monolith portal...

This allowed Necrons to reserve units in previous editions when it was not a default allowed condition (as it is in 5th edition). It is permitting you to reserve in any mission where you normally can't, not restricting you to just that method of reserve.

Exactly. Since the minimum number of warriors that you have to deploy at the beginning is zero, you may bring all warrior squads in excess of zero in through the Monolith.

Unless, of course, you are playing some kind of wacky scenario.

That is kind of convoluted and I'm not sure right.

Normal Missions in 5th Edition allow Reserves. Any Necrons brought in using normal reserve rules do not and cannot use the monolith to arrive. The monolith/warrior rules also allows you to designate Warrior squads as being in Monolith reserve.

If the mission does not allow reserves, normally no units can be put in reserve (either normal or monolith). But because they have a special rule, Necrons that are above your first 2 troops choices can be put in a special type of reserve that ignores scenario rules.

pretre wrote:

The Grog wrote:Actually, you first two Warrior units (the compulsory ones) CANNOT come in by portal. The rule specifically says 'excess'.

You're mixing up pieces of the rules here.

The Codex says:

Necron Codex wrote:
Reserves: Any Warrior units in excess of the minimum required by the FOC for the mission being played may begin the game in reserve whether the Reserves special rule is in use or not. When they arrive they must emerge from a Monolith portal...

This allowed Necrons to reserve units in previous editions when it was not a default allowed condition (as it is in 5th edition). It is permitting you to reserve in any mission where you normally can't, not restricting you to just that method of reserve.

This depends on what 'they' refer to. Since the entire previous sentence was about Warrior units in excess of the minimum, I believe 'they' also refers to Warrior units in excess of the minimum. Thus, only Warrior units in excess of the minimum (they) can arrive by portal.

Or: yet another unclear Necron rule.

I am uncertain if there really is a 'special portal reserves', but that seems easier.

The Grog wrote:

This depends on what 'they' refer to. Since the entire previous sentence was about Warrior units in excess of the minimum, I believe 'they' also refers to Warrior units in excess of the minimum.

This is horribly de-railing the thread, but no. Grab a copy of the codex and actually read the rules:

necron codex wrote:Reserves: Any Warrior units in excess of the minimum required by the FOC for the mission being played may begin the game in reserve whether the Reserves special rule is in use or not. When they arrive they must emerge from a Monolith portal. If there is no Monolith when the units become available, they will be forced to wait until a Monolith becomes available.

Any warriors which do not get deployed by the end of the game countas being destroyed for the purpose of calculating victory points.

Monolith section wrote:
If a unit of necron warriors is eligible to enter play from reserve (see the Necron Warriors entry) then they must emerge from the portal even if you would prefer to fire the particle whip. Only one unit of warriors can enter play from each monolith in a single turn. The Necron player can decide which.

The Warrior rule just allows you to put squads in reserves when you wouldn't be able to and is separate from the Monolith rule. The monolith rule (quite separately) allows you to pull reserved units through it.

If you want to dispute it further, can you start a YMTC thread?

Kevin949 wrote:

AndrewC wrote:Just to throw in a couple of questions that seem apt.

Necron Warriors have a specific reserves rule in the Codex, if their held in reserve then they must come on via a portal. Would that not have meant that Dash couldn't have walked them on and should have brought them on via a 'lith?

WBB via portals. If a unit is wiped out, but due to a res orb and or nearby unit is allowed a wbb but fails. How does the portal work? IE which unit has to be pulled through to allow the reroll? A destroyed unit doesn't exist and can't be targetted, ergo can't be picked for teleportation and if you pick the 'supporting' unit then the downed Necrons might not be within 6"

Cheers

Andrew

No, they don't HAVE to come in through the monolith. It's in the FAQ on GW's website, you can choose. But, if you say they are coming in from the board edge or the lith, they HAVE to come in that way, you can't switch when their deployment time comes.

If that unit is 100% wiped out, you get no extra WBB for porting the "supporting" unit so any warriors that failed are gone.

Not so sure about that last part. (Don't have the codex in front of me, and by the time I get home to double check I'll have forgotten this discussion). But if the one unit was completely wiped out, then the ones that stand up on the first WBB roll from that unit join the nearby unit that's providing the necron within 6" they need to qualify for WBB. It would seem that the ones you'd like to have stand back up get to teleport through the monolith to get a second chance, and because they have to join the unit that was closest, either they have to move closer to the unit providing the 'pattern', or the other unit that was next to them will teleport with them through the monolith, making one very large squad. This can get particularly troublesome, movement wise, with the addition of a tomb spyder. Where you can have models standing up, and joining a unit 6 feet away.

Dashofpepper wrote:Hey folks!
I've been assembling Necrons.

Are they going to be pink?

dancingcricket wrote:Not so sure about that last part. (Don't have the codex in front of me, and by the time I get home to double check I'll have forgotten this discussion). But if the one unit was completely wiped out, then the ones that stand up on the first WBB roll from that unit join the nearby unit that's providing the necron within 6" they need to qualify for WBB. It would seem that the ones you'd like to have stand back up get to teleport through the monolith to get a second chance, and because they have to join the unit that was closest, either they have to move closer to the unit providing the 'pattern', or the other unit that was next to them will teleport with them through the monolith, making one very large squad. This can get particularly troublesome, movement wise, with the addition of a tomb spyder. Where you can have models standing up, and joining a unit 6 feet away.

There are a few threads about this in YMDC I believe, but the reason you can't do it the way you're thinking is that until the units actually get UP from WBB, they are not a part of any unit except the one they were initially in. If that unit is 100% downed, your opponent has received a kill point and you no longer have 2 units of 10 warriors but now 1 unit of 17 warriors (or however many get up). But the original unit is gone and the downed warriors are not part of the second unit granting the WBB thus they don't get a second WBB roll because their unit is not being ported.

I don't think necrons are a "bad" army if you're fielding 3 monoliths. Most armies have an "uber build" and... 3 monoliths would be the default necron one.

However... Bright/dark lances ftw...

lances don't affect liths.

Backfire wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:Hey folks!
I've been assembling Necrons.

Are they going to be pink?

That's up to the wife.

An army of pink necrons would scare almost anything.

You know you want to

Those wraiths are AWESOME!

I have to agree...

That would be the greatest Necron themed army for the Deceiver to be with, a bunch of flowers and butterflies with a fruity god of deception.

There are more pictures floating around in the galleries somewhere, but the Tomb Spyders were painted up like giant ladybugs as well

............ that would just throw me off so much if i played against an army painted like that....i wouldnt be able to stop laughing

And you would lose because you couldn't stop laughing!

Dash, I think you found the nuclear weapon in the world of psychological warfare.

PINK ARMYS!!!

Why did you change the name?

Gutsnagga wrote:Why did you change the name?

Because there were a bunch of conscientious objectors to calling this a battle report.

It is a battle report, just not what we were expecting of you, with the whole 'hype' with the Dash does Necrons over in tactics and you building a list for competitive uses and then ...'this' is the first impression we have of it.

So, I think the reaction of some posters here is expected if a tiny bit pointed. Though I do like this new title.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Gutsnagga wrote:Why did you change the name?

Because there were a bunch of conscientious objectors to calling this a battle report.

I object to it now being called something else!

I demand you call it a Battle Report, right now!

I much prefer the new title.

Whilst I'm not untoward this being called a battle report, which it very clearly is, I had some issues about the whole 'beating face' thing. If you make a claim such as that you really need to be absoloutely watertight on your rulings, which this report very obviously wasn't.

It goes without saying that you (Dash) get a *lot* of flak for portraying yourself (whether intended or otherwise) as a hardcore WAAC player, and I guess I expect a certain amount of humility from people, regardless as to what their previous achievements are.

I believe people got a bit annoyed with the language you use and, if I remeber correctly, you fell into pretty much the same caveat regarding your 'Store Champion' idea at a Not-so-FLGS. Digging up the past aside, I think you do need to be a bit more selective in the descriptions you use; it may just help alleviate some of the anti-Dash e-drama.

Just my £0.02, for what its worth. Besides that I don't have much more to contribute to the discussion. I see Necrons so very, very rarely that I cannot make any concrete claims on how ther rules work.

L. Wrex

It's funny how it started out as a battle report, turned into a flame/hatefest against Dash, turned into a rules discussion and is now about the color of troops.

There is no proper forum for this thread.

Should just go into Off-Topic from the looks of the road ahead

agnosto wrote:It's funny how it started out as a battle report, turned into a flame/hatefest against Dash, turned into a rules discussion and is now about the color of troops.

There is no proper forum for this thread.

I'm going to Nuts and Bolts to request a "Kill it with Fire" forum.

Monster Rain wrote:

agnosto wrote:It's funny how it started out as a battle report, turned into a flame/hatefest against Dash, turned into a rules discussion and is now about the color of troops.

There is no proper forum for this thread.

I'm going to Nuts and Bolts to request a "Kill it with Fire" forum.

LOL

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:
It goes without saying that you (Dash) get a *lot* of flak for portraying yourself (whether intended or otherwise) as a hardcore WAAC player, and I guess I expect a certain amount of humility from people, regardless as to what their previous achievements are.

http://www.rankingshq.com/rankings/default.aspx?GameSystemId=3&RegionId=13

The rankings say that I'm the #1 ranked Warhammer 40k player in the country! Imagine what's going to happen to my humility now.

Nm.

Thought better of it.

You just keep on keeping on, buddy.

Oh, c'mon. Its FUNNY!

I'm writing an article titled, "A Day in the Life of a 40k Champion."

Here's an excerpt:
----------------------------------------------------
1130-1230: Exercise!

One of the key things that separates us pro-players from the masses of regular players is that we're ready to adapt to any situation. I've got these flash cards - every one has a picture of a unit from one of the armies in 40k on it. My trainer will shuffle up all the cards, and pull one out while shouting out an army. Then I have five seconds to assess the tools that the army I use out of that list has and how I would deal with the unit. If you want to be a pro at 40k, you have to keep your mental acuity up. For every bad answer, a chapter of Dan Abnett's horror-book Titanicus gets added to my homework to read later. Just thinking about those titans firing their turbolasers makes me want to recoil in abject horror. TURBOLASERS! Being forced to read that canon-stomping garbage is powerful motivation to answer well.

whats wrong with turbo-lasers?

Dashofpepper wrote:

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:
It goes without saying that you (Dash) get a *lot* of flak for portraying yourself (whether intended or otherwise) as a hardcore WAAC player, and I guess I expect a certain amount of humility from people, regardless as to what their previous achievements are.

http://www.rankingshq.com/rankings/default.aspx?GameSystemId=3&RegionId=13

The rankings say that I'm the #1 ranked Warhammer 40k player in the country! Imagine what's going to happen to my humility now.

You DO know that the rankings site doesnt really mean anything....right?

Dashofpepper wrote:Oh, c'mon. Its FUNNY!

I'm writing an article titled, "A Day in the Life of a 40k Champion."

Here's an excerpt:
----------------------------------------------------
1130-1230: Exercise!

One of the key things that separates us pro-players from the masses of regular players is that we're ready to adapt to any situation. I've got these flash cards - every one has a picture of a unit from one of the armies in 40k on it. My trainer will shuffle up all the cards, and pull one out while shouting out an army. Then I have five seconds to assess the tools that the army I use out of that list has and how I would deal with the unit. If you want to be a pro at 40k, you have to keep your mental acuity up. For every bad answer, a chapter of Dan Abnett's horror-book Titanicus gets added to my homework to read later. Just thinking about those titans firing their turbolasers makes me want to recoil in abject horror. TURBOLASERS! Being forced to read that canon-stomping garbage is powerful motivation to answer well.

El Oh El

http://www.baldandscreaming.com/uncategorized/a-day-in-the-life-of-a-warhammer-40000-champion/


There we go.

Deadshane1 wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:
It goes without saying that you (Dash) get a *lot* of flak for portraying yourself (whether intended or otherwise) as a hardcore WAAC player, and I guess I expect a certain amount of humility from people, regardless as to what their previous achievements are.

http://www.rankingshq.com/rankings/default.aspx?GameSystemId=3&RegionId=13

The rankings say that I'm the #1 ranked Warhammer 40k player in the country! Imagine what's going to happen to my humility now.

You DO know that the rankings site doesnt really mean anything....right?

There. I wasn't going to be the first one to bring it up.

Dashofpepper wrote:http://www.baldandscreaming.com/uncategorized/a-day-in-the-life-of-a-warhammer-40000-champion/


There we go.

This is awesome!

L. Wrex

Monster Rain wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:
It goes without saying that you (Dash) get a *lot* of flak for portraying yourself (whether intended or otherwise) as a hardcore WAAC player, and I guess I expect a certain amount of humility from people, regardless as to what their previous achievements are.

http://www.rankingshq.com/rankings/default.aspx?GameSystemId=3&RegionId=13

The rankings say that I'm the #1 ranked Warhammer 40k player in the country! Imagine what's going to happen to my humility now.

You DO know that the rankings site doesnt really mean anything....right?

There. I wasn't going to be the first one to bring it up.

Gee, it's a good thing he's taking it so seriously

Well congrats on making #1 in the nation. You are quite the traveler going from sea to shining sea. Anyone care to loan a broke grad student a few dollars to go to a few events?

Makes me want to have a game against Dash's orks with my space wolves. Maybe I'll proxy his Nova orks.

Maelstrom808 wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:
It goes without saying that you (Dash) get a *lot* of flak for portraying yourself (whether intended or otherwise) as a hardcore WAAC player, and I guess I expect a certain amount of humility from people, regardless as to what their previous achievements are.

http://www.rankingshq.com/rankings/default.aspx?GameSystemId=3&RegionId=13

The rankings say that I'm the #1 ranked Warhammer 40k player in the country! Imagine what's going to happen to my humility now.

You DO know that the rankings site doesnt really mean anything....right?

There. I wasn't going to be the first one to bring it up.

Gee, it's a good thing he's taking it so seriously

Yep, the humor of the whole thing is lost on some people....

And you wonder why when the dog gets loose it bites you...when you're the one who's been teasing it through the fence with a stick.

I don't really care either way, but I really don't think it's possibly to ironically self promote. No matter how much you try to claim it's funny, it's still self promotion.

And even if it were a joke, what's the punchline? Are you saying that you're not one of the best 40k players in the country? What's the exaggeration? Are you saying that the rankings are worthless? Are they wrong? How wrong?

I mean, if a ranking places you #1, but you think you're #15 at best, that's not really that funny. Unless you find improper statistical modeling or sampling to be funny (and I do), but I'm not sure that's your point.

I mean, don't get me wrong. I find the futility of trying to rank a highly provincial hobby with differing concepts of the "good" to be amusing in a sort of cynical way, but I also respect the innately human desire to create order out of chaos. So while I may smirk at such hubris, it's the knowing, sad smirk of a man that sympathizes with fellow men. It's definitely not just lulz.

Polonius wrote:I don't really care either way, but I really don't think it's possibly to ironically self promote. No matter how much you try to claim it's funny, it's still self promotion.

^ This. I wish I had just said this earlier. Polonius has a higher Wordsmith Skill than I.

Polonius and pretre....we're laughing at YOU.

I basically did a 40k version of Pure Pwnage's "How to be a pro gamer" You not getting it is funny. You taking me as seriously as you do when most of my entire internet presence revolves around funny stuff, doing funny stuff, and having fun....

I actually stole inspiration from “Pure Pwnage” – FPS Doug and Jeremy are arguing about RTS vs FPS, and Jeremy is talking about his macro skills. He’ll walk by an ATM and start punching keys to practice his micro skills. micromanagement, being able to control everything….you gotta own noobs with Micro skills.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9qXbgrx9rg: FPS Doug from Pure Pwnage with the world famous BOOM, HEADSHOT! clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSoWq4-DyfE&feature=channel: The Noob Song which I’d like to dedicate to all of you like, noobs out there getting owned. Polonius, Pretre, this is for you noobs.

This is Jeremy talking about how pro gamers need to watch Command and Conquer replays: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBD7oXli8DI&feature=related

You guys must be some crusty and uninspired hermits.

Dashofpepper wrote:Polonius and pretre....we're laughing at YOU.

I basically did a 40k version of Pure Pwnage's "How to be a pro gamer" You not getting it is funny. You taking me as seriously as you do when most of my entire internet presence revolves around funny stuff, doing funny stuff, and having fun....
(snip)
You guys must be some crusty and uninspired hermits.

No. As I said earlier, I get the joke on the Satire. I think it is funny.

We were talking about the 'Look I'm #1' thing.

pretre wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:Polonius and pretre....we're laughing at YOU.

I basically did a 40k version of Pure Pwnage's "How to be a pro gamer" You not getting it is funny. You taking me as seriously as you do when most of my entire internet presence revolves around funny stuff, doing funny stuff, and having fun....
(snip)
You guys must be some crusty and uninspired hermits.

No. As I said earlier, I get the joke on the Satire. I think it is funny.

We were talking about the 'Look I'm #1' thing.

I got the joke; coming on the heels of comments like L. Wrex's on page 5 (which Dash posted in response to), it made me chuckle. But I do have a very dry sense of humor.

Dash, I wish I had your innate ability to anger people over nothing. What fun and joy you must experience out of accidentally turning everyday life for so many people into angry internetz arguments! Personally, I found your 40k pro blog hilarious, though no video gaming? I mean, DOW has it's place right? and active strategy games from other genres to keep you on your toes and doing different things? Just trying to help you stay number 1! Yup, bunch of stuff you played wrong, but I've seen from other threads you're learning. It s cool.

This thread is generating a lot of alerts.

STOP the personal attacks, thinly veiled or backhanded or whatever.

Dashofpepper wrote:Polonius and pretre....we're laughing at YOU.

I basically did a 40k version of Pure Pwnage's "How to be a pro gamer" You not getting it is funny. You taking me as seriously as you do when most of my entire internet presence revolves around funny stuff, doing funny stuff, and having fun....

Monster Rain wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:Then we'll make fun of the people too stupid to get the joke.

What if, hypothetically speaking, there was someone who got the joke but still thought it was asinine?

Just for the sake of discussion, of course.

I so called this.

Just, you know, pointing that out. Can't we all just... Get along?

I think its funny that dash's threads get locked for peoples attacks at him but because of Dash's Celebrity and the fact he brings more traffic to Dakka he gets a free pass to Troll (yes threads designed to anger people is trolling), Insult, Make fun of people, or just plain keep locked threads alive. Like I've said before; If you make threads about yourself on a public forum expect some negative feedback. But go ahead Dakka keep protecting your golden boy (he is #1 in the nation by the way).

Hmmmm. I have shelved my 'crons until the new codex (and hopefully plastics as well) come out next year.

This report gives me hope!




**note - someone mentioned earlier about taking Scarabs instead of Wraiths with the D-Lord. While you do lose some combat ability, this does mean that, after a T-Boost the D-Lord would get a 2+ Cover save (i think......you geta 3+ after T-Boost anyway adn the scarabs give you a +1 with their Swarm rule).

I have found the Scarab/Lord formation can be good at tank hunting. The scarabs get 5 attacks on the charge which can glance on a 6 with D-fields. Plus the warscythe give the Lord 2D6 vs armour.

Praxiss wrote:Hmmmm. I have shelved my 'crons until the new codex (and hopefully plastics as well) come out next year.

This report gives me hope!




**note - someone mentioned earlier about taking Scarabs instead of Wraiths with the D-Lord. While you do lose some combat ability, this does mean that, after a T-Boost the D-Lord would get a 2+ Cover save (i think......you geta 3+ after T-Boost anyway adn the scarabs give you a +1 with their Swarm rule).

I have found the Scarab/Lord formation can be good at tank hunting. The scarabs get 5 attacks on the charge which can glance on a 6 with D-fields. Plus the warscythe give the Lord 2D6 vs armour.

Swarm rule is not conferred to the Lord, his best save is 3+armor/cover. Scarabs are 4 attacks on the charge, and only glance on the to wound/pen rolls, ws gives 2d6+S for armor. But yes the little buggers get their mighty 2+ cover save after turbo boosting, and then watch half die to a well placed heavy flamer It happens. Scarabs and lord is fun, but only works well against non combat, non flamer armies... so uh tau?

Grimgob wrote:I think its funny that dash's threads get locked for peoples attacks at him but because of Dash's Celebrity and the fact he brings more traffic to Dakka he gets a free pass to Troll (yes threads designed to anger people is trolling), Insult, Make fun of people, or just plain keep locked threads alive. Like I've said before; If you make threads about yourself on a public forum expect some negative feedback. But go ahead Dakka keep protecting your golden boy (he is #1 in the nation by the way).

This is so off base as to border on the insane.

Please use the MOD ALERT feature to report ANY posts which you feel break the rules of the site.

Additionally, please feel free to contact the owners themselves if you feel something "isn't quite right".

Alpharius wrote:

Grimgob wrote:I think its funny that dash's threads get locked for peoples attacks at him but because of Dash's Celebrity and the fact he brings more traffic to Dakka he gets a free pass to Troll (yes threads designed to anger people is trolling), Insult, Make fun of people, or just plain keep locked threads alive. Like I've said before; If you make threads about yourself on a public forum expect some negative feedback. But go ahead Dakka keep protecting your golden boy (he is #1 in the nation by the way).

This is so off base as to border on the insane.

Please use the MOD ALERT feature to report ANY posts which you feel break the rules of the site.

Additionally, please feel free to contact the owners themselves if you feel something "isn't quite right".

Agreed.

Everyone knows I am Dakka's golden boy and the only reason anyone ever comes here!

In all seriousness, This shows what Necrons could do if they had good rules.

Okay, I was rather annoyed at the tack this thread was taking, but this last post was hilarious

Grimgob wrote:I think its funny that dash's threads get locked for peoples attacks at him but because of Dash's Celebrity and the fact he brings more traffic to Dakka he gets a free pass to Troll (yes threads designed to anger people is trolling), Insult, Make fun of people, or just plain keep locked threads alive. Like I've said before; If you make threads about yourself on a public forum expect some negative feedback. But go ahead Dakka keep protecting your golden boy (he is #1 in the nation by the way).

Pot, meet kettle. I'd encourage you to celebrate your troll status!

If the internet was populated by people who didn't feel the NEED to attack me, my threads wouldn't have to be locked. If I were the Dakka golden boy I'd be a moderator, and then you wouldn't be here anymore. =p

If I were the Dakka golden boy I'd be a moderator, and then you wouldn't be here anymore. =p

Well thats clearly not true. Moderators are chosen n their ability to hold a tune after 7 shots of 151 in 30 minutes, being spun around in a rotating chair, and a quick hit of primer aerosol. Jeez I thought everyone knew that.

Frazzled wrote:

If I were the Dakka golden boy I'd be a moderator, and then you wouldn't be here anymore. =p

Well thats clearly not true. Moderators are chosen n their ability to hold a tune after 7 shots of 151 in 30 minutes, being spun around in a rotating chair, and a quick hit of primer aerosol. Jeez I thought everyone knew that.

So if you vomit from all of that is that immediate disqualification, or bonus points for being able to hold a tune while vomiting?

On that note this thread has gotten a bit flamy. In honor of Labor Day (Thats Labor not Labour you British pukes!) lets lay down our thread burdens and close this up.