So quite honestly, after losing the 5th battle in a row with these guys I'm close to throwing in the towel and putting them up on the highest shelf in my room never to be touched again. Can anyone here convince me why I should keep battling with them? 1500pts and I'm up against an Empire artillery line, getting messed up by them every which way no matter what I try. Anyone have any suggestions?

wizards, lore of life. Ressurect the guys that die.

It helps.

kastellan wrote:So quite honestly, after losing the 5th battle in a row with these guys I'm close to throwing in the towel and putting them up on the highest shelf in my room never to be touched again. Can anyone here convince me why I should keep battling with them? 1500pts and I'm up against an Empire artillery line, getting messed up by them every which way no matter what I try. Anyone have any suggestions?

Can you give us more info like your's and your opponent's army composition

I play empire and if hes a gunline your pretty much in alot of trouble, i have never lost to high elves as mortars are just the end of weak elves. I would say lvl 4 wizard on an eagle and do a suicide purple sun down his gunline trying to hit as many warmachines as possible and also praying for misfires.

I would try to use phoenix guard/white lions, and as many great eagles as possible to try and take out his warmachines asap. Try to avoid the arc of his gunners/crossbowmen and hope his cannons miss so your eagles make it.

High Elves have quite a bit of difficulty with gunlines. As you've discovered, T3, 5+Svs don't really react nicely with mortars and cannons.

What kind of list are you running?

As suggested above, mages running Lore of Life help out a lot. Bunker them in with Phoenix Guard ( these guys are too survivable to not take, imo). 1-2 Great Eagles will take out a Warmachine a turn.

Ok so my list is pretty much this.

Prince
Some armour which give a 4+ ward save (can't remember which one it is lol)
Great Weapon
Heavy Armour
Shield

Level 2 Mage
Silver wand

Level 2 Mage

20 Spearmen
Full command

20 Spearmen
Full Command

19 Swordmasters
Full command

18 Phoenix Guard
Full Command


So I pretty much run the Prince in the Swordmasters, one of the mages in the Phoenix Guard and the other in a unit of Spearmen.

What do you have to play with? Shadow Warriors, Eagles, Reavers?

Just take a level 4 wizard i find it much better than having two lvl 2s. Swap the swordmasters for another unit of phoenix guard and try to free up some points for eagles.

As you have a wizard lord now you will have to take a noble instead of the prince but should be alot more effective.

Yeah, you definitely need something to close the ranks more quickly. Great eagles, maybe a small unit of Shadow warriors or Cavalry.

As it is, with no ranged units and no quick units, you're just playing his game, walking your infantry straight into his guns. What else would you expect to happen?

I would also personally get an Archmage, loaded with goodies (BoH or silver wand and some defensive items) instead of the two mages, and a Noble instead of the Prince at that points value. Take Life as your lore, nice buffs and healing, plus a good offensive spell.

Yeah, like Jeep said, you need some fast moving units to help silence the guns. As is, you're probably slogging 2-3 turns before you hit combat.

Suggestions:
Take an archmage instead of a prince. Give him Forliath's Robe and he'll be safe from most things (though Talisman of Preservation + Silver Wand are quite good to take as well). If you want to go more Magic-oriented, get a Lvl2 as well with Seerstaff. Lore of life on the Archmage will give you a nice array of buffs and a fairly nasty direct damage spell that forces the opponent to take Strength Tests or die. Find the points by dropping the Prince and second lvl2. If you can, try fitting in Korhil or Caradryan as a bodyguard for the Archmage.

Key advice - set up your units in shallow and wide formations at the start. It'll help you take less damage while you advance. With Ld9, your guys should be able to pull of Quick Reforms pretty easily.

Also, invest in the Ironcurse Icon for your Swordmaster Champion - 5 points for a 6+ ward save against warmachines is well worth it.

Give the mages a lesser dragon, fly and smash into the gun line , cant shoot anymore :'P while the rest of your army move in and engage in melee

kastellan wrote:Ok so my list is pretty much this.................
So I pretty much run the Prince in the Swordmasters, one of the mages in the Phoenix Guard and the other in a unit of Spearmen.

As you might have guessed by now, this is a bad list. Let us see why.

Prince
Some armour which give a 4+ ward save (can't remember which one it is lol)
Great Weapon
Heavy Armour
Shield

So you have a very expensive hero with a sharp hitty thing and armour and a ward save.

No good.

You want princes for three reasons

1. Leadership. Ld10 general is great but you pay a lot for that, Ld9 is adequate for a general.
2. Really nice magic gizmos. it looks like you have Vambraces here, reroll armour and 4+ ward. that is nice and only a Prince can have it. But it is not esserntial. the gizmos you really need are those items that support an army.
3. Opportunity to ride a big monster.

Technically you got two out of three, you got a general in an infantry line and a 55pt item a hero cannot take. However a hero has about 80% performance of a Lord, but about 50% pricetag. your Lord with Vambraces, heavy armour and great weapon comes to 233pts, thats quite cheap for an elf Prince, but also largely useless, you have wasted 45pts of item allocation and wasting item allocation on a fighting characrter is a false economy. there are plenty of items that support your army that you can use.

See what you could take instead:

Hero (85pts)
Heavy Armour (4pts)
Great weapon (8pts)
Temakadors Gauntlets (30pts)

This comes out to a much cheaper 127pts. Yes he is inferior, one less ward save, wound, attack and leadership, but more efficient. the above hero would perform better than the half value you would expect of him.

This is just a like-for-like comparison. I would be looking at dragon armour, the benefits for the extra 2pts are worthwhile, barded elf steed, yes even if he is an infantry model. Barded steeds cost lords and Heroes 24 and 16pts perpectively yet they add +2 armour save and you save 15pts on a back rank model as the steed takes up the space of two infantry. You do lose the great weapons bonus, but a halberd is now the way forward it is cheap and by the way you want to spend your points you favour protection anyway. It might be worth it taking hand weapon and shield instead.
Temakadors gauntlets can stay, the +1 save is now looking very promising if the hero is mounted and the ward save will normally apply as S3 attacks are not a big threat. Consider a support item like Amulet of light, of a Potion of Strength for a challenge. Potion of Strength and Speed of asuryan must be a nasty combo, good enough to tempt me to recommend two hand weapons.

An alternate is not to tool up the Hero much at all, armour, shield sword and Reaver Bow. Rely on your 'heavy bolter' to do the work and stay out of direct combat. Otherwise look to the army boosting items, normally found on the
Enchanted Item list like Amulet of Light, Crown of Command, Dragonhorn etc and let your item allowance to boost a unit or army rather than just a character. If you really want a Prince always save room for an enchanted item, the difference you can afford that and a protective item. Frankly though save the points to buy more elves.

Level 2 Mage
Silver wand

Is that all? Add Ring of Fury, its an extra spell per turn. at a minimum something else to draw out your opponents dispel dice. Well woerth the 40pts spent.

Level 2 Mage

No items at all! Rule #1 Thou shalt spend thy wizards allowance on an Arcane Item. Its an always thing. If nothing else take a Dispel Scroll, which appear to now take up a mages arcane item allowance unles FAQed somewhere.

20 Spearmen
Full command

20 Spearmen
Full Command

19 Swordmasters
Full command

18 Phoenix Guard
Full Command

You need artillery or fast attackers.

I recommend chariots and eagles.

Chariots are great because they can charge in with an infantry block and get their full strength into battle while only taking up- a corner of the defending unit. As mentioned by previous posters eagles stop enemy war machines. Cavalry can also be good. Pay for this by cutting down on the number of Swordmasters and phoenix Guard. Swordmasters win combat by acting as a collective grain thresher/mincing machine. Phoenix Guard dont win combats, they just dont care if they lose combats. Large blocks of spearelves are fine.

5 battles? Really that is all. I have lost 20 games in a row against the same empire army with my DE. I picked a very hard army to get used to and suffered for it. But I have never wanted to drop my army due to it.


The basic run down is Kill the cannons and knights as quick as you can then sweep the board how ever you like after that.

That is my Priority any ways. War machines, Knights, sweep the gun line and finish off the larger units with multicombat.

Thank you Orlanth, that does help. Would you recommend running an Archmage with Lore of Life?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And maybe taking Caradryan instead of the noble?

kastellan wrote:Thank you Orlanth, that does help. Would you recommend running an Archmage with Lore of Life?

Yes I would. Lore of Life is not the Lore I would choose, but that is an artistic preference, its druidic magic and I dont think it suits, besides I also have a Bretonnian army and so drown on lore of Life. This is a personaol preference only, the tactical reasons for choosing Lore of Life are very sound. I must say I like my High Magic archmages though and the ward save they generate does contribute to saving elves lives. however that's a side issue, Flames of the Phoenix and Vauls Unmaking are the real prizes.

My real answer can only be take a Lore of Life Archmage if you want, but leave room for a High Magic mage somewhere in your list.

The second point on Archmagi is to remember they have the same leadership as heroes, so an archmage makes a good general, possibly even a better one for aninfantry list as he can keep his Ld bubble near the infantry yet he is unlikely to get himself killed by being in combat.

kastellan wrote:
And maybe taking Caradryan instead of the noble?

I dont know, Caradryan costs too much IMHO, yes he starts with the 4+ ward save, but has a poor 5+ armour save so his total protection is not as good as it could be. The build with Temakadors gauntlets, armour and steed gives you better dice odds on savesd all told. That 4+ ward is a gimic on its own, its superior protection against big nasty monsters and cannon, but a good regular arour ave is what soaks up rank and file the S3/S4 massed attacks, and those are the big problems you will be facing. If you cannot defeat a truly nastyy opponent let the unit champion face him instead, your general must be heroic, not stupid.

Caradryan is at his best when he dies, you set him up to use either his death low ability or his ward save in a win/win challenge with just about anything. This is of limited value if he is general though. You could take him and an archmage general, but that is eating a lot of points; so I would leave him behind.

Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds as though your saying a mounted hero can join a unit of infantry? I didn't think this was allowed?

kastellan wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds as though your saying a mounted hero can join a unit of infantry? I didn't think this was allowed?

This is not allowed I think... although I may be wrong...infact I think you can, im sure I read something about model displacement.

He can join them but won't get look out sir.

Oh wow I did not know that. Thanks lol that means I will be included a barded elven steed lol.

No real point in doing that just means hes going to be hit by every cannon/morar untill you fail his ward save, look out sir is alot better.

Hm this is true.

That and look out sir is the only way for a character to have 3 saves – LoS+Armor+Ward/Regen.

I'm so beyond confused as to why anyone would argue that High Elves struggle versus an empire gun-line. Especially if the Elves know the gunline is coming.

His range is predominatnly 24 inches.

HE range is longer.

He has to move or fire

HE can move and shoot.

Gunlines don't handle battle lines that shift well.

HE'S are one of the fastest armies in the game.

If you're marching into the teeth of your opponents guns. You deserve to lose IMO.

I believe you have the wrong idea of what an imperial gunline is, it's not made of said 24" weapons you describe, its made of warmachines, and lots of 'em. Needless to say HE toughness is a great hinder there – large blasts of horror

if they struggled that badly throw in a lvl 2 mage with lore of fire and fireball his gunline.

Personally I think you are just not using your army correctly.
My friends empire army is a full gunline and the only thing that gives me hassle is his knights.

Its easy to throw in enough warrior priests and a lvl 4 wizard with rod of power in any good gunline list a lvl 2 wizard wont get anything through in my empire artillery spam list i get +3 dispel dice and then on avg 2 extra from rod of power.

I personally take crossbows as most high elves use seaguard now so in actual fact high elfs are the ones out of range and have to move to get in range.

I took a look at your list & I have to say, you're missing one of the elves best abilities - shooting. Curse of arrow attraction + bolt thrower spam can ruin any opponents day. Bunker your mages in a phoenix guard unit & use spearmen for minor blocking & silver helms for a counter charge. Fill the rest out with regular archers and enjoy.

Basically cast curse of arrow attraction on "what you want dead this turn" and let fly.

Take minimum core with sea guard and then teclis with lore of light (6 dice pha's protection every turn) and 2-3 units of pheonex guard. Then laugh as you easily walk up the field unharmed.

zeekill wrote:Take minimum core with sea guard and then teclis with lore of light (6 dice pha's protection every turn) and 2-3 units of pheonex guard. Then laugh as you easily walk up the field unharmed.

1500 point games here... And if we're playing cheap tactics here I'd be taking a LOT more then 4 warmachines in a game.

...Oh by the way I'm the one causing these problems, I own the Empire 'gunline' =P

Well dude hats off for the winning streak but gonna show him some pointers on your army or something?. He wants to give up his entire army just because he can't beat you with them.

I dont mean intentionally lose or anything. I would never suggest to do that to someone so volatile lol (who wants to give up an army after 5 games?)


EDIT:it double posted my message.

He's my best mate. I'm constantly pointing out new things to try and stuff. To be honest he's had a certain amount of bad luck in our games. Blew up his general twice on miscasts. Lost a lvl 2 mage in my first turn of shooting, twice. My war machines are really reliable for some reason. In all our games I've only had 2 blow up..

It might help to know that this was a rage post after I, for lack of a better word, smashed his army with mortars and a couple of grapeshots from cannons (a 20 strong SM unit down to 3 and 20 spears down to 8 in 3 turns).

Don't get me wrong I'm enjoying seeing my army actually do some good out there but I also want his to be successful.

I'm not new to Warhammer, but I'm still getting used to battling as I just used to collect. So saying I deserve to lose is a bit harsh don't you think?
And yes, I am still working out all the kinks, which is exactly why I came to Dakka to ask if anyone could help me. I'm going to rewrite my list now, and hopefully someone can help me out and show me what I can add in it to help instead of saying I deserve to lose.
Ps, warmachines have T7, so good luck shooting at them with S3 bows Ragnar -.-

kastellan wrote:I'm not new to Warhammer, but I'm still getting used to battling as I just used to collect. So saying I deserve to lose is a bit harsh don't you think?
And yes, I am still working out all the kinks, which is exactly why I came to Dakka to ask if anyone could help me. I'm going to rewrite my list now, and hopefully someone can help me out and show me what I can add in it to help instead of saying I deserve to lose.
Ps, warmachines have T7, so good luck shooting at them with S3 bows Ragnar -.-

I did not say you deserved to lose. I said that I was not saying your friend should not lose deliberately to you when I asked him to give you pointers and such.
Also try a bolt thrower or scouts against them, I found that my DE shades work best. If they don't do the job at least they tie them up for a few turns.

Ragnar4 wrote:
If you're marching into the teeth of your opponents guns. You deserve to lose IMO.

He wasn't taking to you syanticraven =)

I see, I see my apologies good man.

To be honest hes going to struggle at 1500 points if you played a 2k point game where he can use teclis he then has a slightly better chance. Empire can be more dominant in the magic phase/dispel phase for alot cheaper than high elfs, they totally outshoot them and can have nice horde blocks or steadfast blocks for the price of 20 weak elfs.

I wouldnt quit high elfs just play someone with out mortars =).

Lol see the problem is he's my best mate, so it's easy to organise a game against him.

Buy some chaos warriors =)

haha I've suggested the same thing. The guy who runs our FLGS plays VC so shooting isn't a worry and he's offered to go through some different tactics that he could use whilst also giving him a chance to play something completely different to Empire.

Archmage
Lore of Life
Level 4
Folariath’s Robe
Silver Wand
315pts

Noble
Heavy Armour
Great Weapon
Temakador’s Gauntlets
127pts

Mage
High Magic
Level 2
135pts

20 Spearmen
Standard
190pts

20 Spearmen
Standard
190pts

19 Phoenix Guard
Keeper of the Flame
Standard
309pts

14 Swordmasters
Bladelord
Standard
234pts

I know you all said get some eagles but I dunno how to cut down on anything to get them. Some help please? Lol.

Drop the swordmasters and level 2 wizard.

You gotta think like your an empire mortar crewman, do i kill the close combat monsters charging at me (swordmasters) or weak spearmen. They both die extremely fast i think swordmasters should stay at home against any gunline.

kastellan wrote:
19 Phoenix Guard
Keeper of the Flame
Standard
309pts

14 Swordmasters
Bladelord
Standard
234pts

I know you all said get some eagles but I dunno how to cut down on anything to get them. Some help please? Lol.

Cut one of those units to increase the other unit and then add 2 eagles and if enough points are left over a small unit or archers/Bolt thrower or even some reavers or scouts.
Pick which one you like better.

I would also advise you keep the lvl 2 and give it the silver wand instead of the lv4. I also here that Lore of Life may not be the best lore for you to go for, that shadow or heavens was better for you.

Hes wasting 1/3 of his points on 2 mages that need to pray they roll good for the winds of magic, as i said empire spend 240 points for lvl 4 wizard with rod of power and will shut down your magic unless you roll very well.

bennyboy6189 wrote:Hes wasting 1/3 of his points on 2 mages that need to pray they roll good for the winds of magic, as i said empire spend 240 points for lvl 4 wizard with rod of power and will shut down your magic unless you roll very well.

I am advising him on my belief that he will not just be playing against empire. There is also the chance of Irresistible force, although that can go very wrong.
Plus if he can then kill said wizard his magic game is afoot again.

kastellan wrote:
Ps, warmachines have T7, so good luck shooting at them with S3 bows Ragnar -.-

Check your rule book. str 3 wound t7 on a 6.. All of his war-machines have 3 wounds. Therefore, you only need on average 18 hits to get 3 wounds

I'm totally unaffected if you want to dismiss what I have to say. You just keep right on marching towards his cannons and letting them grapshot you to death.. cool?

His warmachines are probably at the far side and at the back of the table edge, at a guess.

Well, if he wants a magic phase he could easily take a level 4 Archmage with the Book of Hoeth. No amount of dispel dice will shut that down.

I would also drop the Swordmasters, beef up the Phoenix Guard and pick up a couple of eagles.

**Edit** Oh, put the Banner of Sorcery on your PG btw... that banner should be on EVERY High Elf list.

Lehnsherr wrote:Well, if he wants a magic phase he could easily take a level 4 Archmage with the Book of Hoeth. No amount of dispel dice will shut that down.

I would also drop the Swordmasters, beef up the Phoenix Guard and pick up a couple of eagles.

**Edit** Oh, put the Banner of Sorcery on your PG btw... that banner should be on EVERY High Elf list.

it does cost 100 points though which would negate the possibility of getting eagles or beefing up the PG
The banner of sorcery could balance it out though without need for the book.

Well, I'd get the eagles. At the 1500 point mark 20 PG should be enough.

His current level 4 costs 315, the level 4 I'd take would cost 360. Add in the banner of sorcery (50 points) and you are lookin at 95 more points.

Dropping the Swordmasters nets you 139 (234-95).

At that point I'd also drop the Gauntlets and Heavy armour on his Noble, and instead take Armour of Caledor and a Guardian Phoenix.

Noble would now cost 143 instead of 127, and he would have the points from the Swordmaster change

The reason I'd take the book is it makes his magic phase that much more scary. With average rolls he is looking at 9 dice per magic phase. Thats very likely that he is casting at least 2 spells with IF every phase.

zeekill wrote:Take minimum core with sea guard and then teclis with lore of light (6 dice pha's protection every turn) and 2-3 units of pheonex guard. Then laugh as you easily walk up the field unharmed.

Sadly pha's protection isn't as effective as you may think, as shown here. And to think that all the warmachine empire gunlines use are actually stone throwers or cannons.

Personally, I find 15 PG enough at this points level. Dropping 4 PG nets you enough points to get at least one Great Eagle.

Again, though. The thing that'll help you most is deploying and advancing in shallow and wide formations until right before you get to the enemy lines. This will help 'minimize' losses from every mortar blast or cannon shot.

i would use something fast.
reavers and eagles.
(shadow warriors simply do not worth it)
your swordmasters are just free points for an empire gunline.
put more phoinix guard instead.
use the reavers and eagles to kill the crews while your phoinix guard will slowly closing in.
the book of hoeth is worth it depending on the lore.
you could use life yes but you could also use shadow. one miasma and a pit of shades and BOOM what warmachine??
as far as core is concerned..
you could use archers in order to fire with longbows at his units or use a combination with a lvl 2 mage that uses high magic.
spells one and two. use the shield to protect some of your vunrlable units and the curse to increase your hits.
bolts do not worth their points.

Sorry I haven't posted in a while, had exams last week so didn't have much time. So I went away and decided to write up a 2000 point list. This list was mainly to include a dragon in my army, coz I love the army and would love to use it lol. So here it is:

Teclis / 475

Dragon Mage of Caledor / 350

20 Spearmen / Banner 190

20 Spearmen / Banner 190

16 Swordmasters / Banner, Bladelord 264

19 Phoenix Guard / Banner, Keeper of the Flame 309

2 Great Eagles / 100

Repeater Bolt Thrower / 100

Will this list be any competitive? Lol.

25% core. Think you're a little shy by my count. Aprrox 120 odd points?

Oh yeah haha. Damn.

If you got teclis, the dragon mage will do little other than channel and get hit by cannons, if your lucky and go 1st he may make it out of his deployment zone(advise based upon him playing empire, which he said he plays most often)

Yeah with teclis either get a lv2 mage (not needed) or a BSB if you can afford a cheap one

The reason I chose the dragon is coz I just love the model and want an excuse the put it in there haha. If I didn't end up taking Teclis I'd probs put a Prince on a dragon and get 2 level 2 mages. Which would be better? Having Teclis and a Dragon Mage or having a Prince on draagon and 2 level 2 mages?

Teclis. He is the best mage in the game and he damn well makes sure you know it.

Haha that's awesome. He has no protection whatsoever though..

kastellan wrote:Haha that's awesome. He has no protection whatsoever though..

Stick him in a unit of something like PG to keep him alive

Eagles, reavers and/or dragon princes.

Empire war machines are pathetic in hand to hand so even eagles have a very good chance of killing or routing the crew on the charge (and on the 2nd turn). You should try using 1 unit of special elite infantry and 2 blocks of spears. Bring some magic and maybe the seerstaff to get some initiative-based killers (pit of shades works wonders on the automatically failing war machines). If your going to bring a mage then you should bring the banner of sorcery (above posts are right about that one).

Personally i believe that the high elves work very well with a little unit of 5 dragon princes without upgrades and a pile of eagles. i want to start testing reavers again though. they're dirt cheap for HE's and getting their free vanguard move back they may actually be worth it again. If nothing else they'll use their 85 points or so absorbing warmachine fire giving your elite infantry closer to their targets.

The trick with any of them is that they need to be cheap. don't go crazy upgrading stuff you expect to die going after the backfield of your enemy. your infantry will win you the game, but the light stuff will allow them to do it. If the light stuff stops working.... well.... its hard to win if you can't use your light stuff. I think this is what your seeing in your games.

If you are close to giving up on the army as your first post indicated, do not take one of the worst choices in 8th (Prince on a Dragon) and then hope to win.

If you are playing for fun, then yes, use the models you like and enjoy the game, but if you are playing to win then do not take the Prince, ESPECIALLY against Empire. Your Dragon will last all of 2 seconds, and you will once again be looking at losing.

High Elves NEED to dominate the magic phase to win most games. There are those matchups where certain lists will beat others, but for a general rule, your strongest phase should be your magic phase. If you take Teclis, you will dominate that phase. He adds D3 dice to the pool, the Banner of Sorcery adds D3. The banner does not appear in your updated list, and this still confuses me. This is a MUST HAVE for a list with Teclis or any mage. Stick it on your Phoenix Guard. It is well worth the 50 points.

Teclis - 475

Noble BSB - 168 - Armour of Caledor, Guardian Phoenix, Great Weapon

Spearmen 30 Musc/SB - 285

Seaguard 20 Musc/SB Shields - 275

Swordmasters *15* Musc/SB - 243

Phoenix Guard *18* FC Banner of Sorcery - 350

2 Great Eagles - 100

Bolt Thrower - 100

Total 1996

By no means is this the best possible list, but it would certainly be more competitive than the list with the Dragon Mage. I dropped the Phoenix Guard to 18 because both Teclis and the BSB go here, although you give away that by putting them at only 18. I don't tend to do this, but based on your list, I figured you would do so. Also, run Swordmasters either 5x3, or 6x3. 15, or 18, no more no less. Any bigger and they become target priority 1, and wiped out. Any smaller, and limited shooting can really hamper there ability to do damage.

Other changes:

- Musicians are a must for the cheap points they cost.
- Bigger block of Spearmen so they stick around to hold, and so you meet minimum core
- One Spearmen unit is now Seaguard. Gives you some shooting, really helps against low T, low AS armies

Why not put the Banner of the world dragon on your unit of pheonix guard, and then launch purple sun after purple sun out of the unit? If it ever lands on you, you don't lose a model anyway... You can wreak serious havoc with 4 or 5 purple suns zooming around the board in your opponents territory.

Umm you can't cast a RiP spell with that character if another instance of it is still active.
And all vortexes are RiP spells.

It also means your BSB has at most, a 4+ armour save, and nothing else.

Teclis is already weak enough, adding in another easy kill on the BSB is just a bad idea.

** Edit ** At 60 points the banner of the world dragon has to go on the BSB... max points for the PG banner is 50 (banner of sorcery fits perfectly)

You could have 3 purple suns going at one time with the high elves. Teclis, Seer-Staff mage and 1 normal mage.

I shudder to think of the points thos three will cost...
Makes my slann and his engine lackey look cheap (well not really )

It would actually cost pretty close to what a Slann + EotG would cost.

475 For Teclis, 130 for the Seerstaff mage if he is level 1, and then the other Mage has to get lucky to get the spell. 270 for a level 4 with the Silver Wand would do it.
875 for the HE compared to 815 for a 4 Disc Slann, and an EotG with level 2 Skink using no gear.

The difference between the 2 is that the EotG + Slann is useful, while the HE Purple Sun spam is rather pointless, and a giant waste of points.

As an Empire player I have to say I love seeing one expensive, fragile unit on the other side. I know I can hit that with all my ranged stuff and knock out a lot of the other guy's killing power right there. What I don't like seeing is lots of units of basic troops, because whatever elf units get to my ranks in decent numbers will beat my troops.

That’s kind of how the game works, and probably how it’s always worked. Gunline armies do well against elite melee armies, elite melee armies do well against horde armies, and horde armies do well against elite melee.

Not that High Elves can ever really build a horde army, but they can take re-focus towards to greater numbers over individual quality troops.

So I’d think you might have a bit of luck dropping the Swordsmen, taking another unit of spearmen and then bulking out each spearmen unit with greater numbers.

war wrote:You could have 3 purple suns going at one time with the high elves. Teclis, Seer-Staff mage and 1 normal mage.

I think this is wrong.

I'm pretty sure that aside from the lvl 1 spell, you can't duplicate spells in a list.

But I also thought that RIP's were fire and forget and you could have as many as you wanted on the table. I'll have to re-read that when I get the chance.

Even if you can only have one.. constantly re-launching the purple sun from the front of that unit pretty much protects it all game.

Ragnar4 wrote:I'm pretty sure that aside from the lvl 1 spell, you can't duplicate spells in a list.

Models who have no choice in the spells they know don't block a spell from being rolled.
So by having Teclis the loremaster (has no choice know all spells), a wizzard with the item that lets him pick his spells (specifically exempt in the BRB), and a regular mage who rolled the spell, that all ends with three wizzards with the same spell.

Ragnar4 wrote:But I also thought that RIP's were fire and forget and you could have as many as you wanted on the table. I'll have to re-read that when I get the chance.

Do that. Altho i think ogres can do it. But then again they can dublicate spells all they want everyone of their casters being a loremaster and all.

HoverBoy wrote:

Ragnar4 wrote:I'm pretty sure that aside from the lvl 1 spell, you can't duplicate spells in a list.

Models who have no choice in the spells they know don't block a spell from being rolled.
So by having Teclis the loremaster (has no choice know all spells), a wizzard with the item that lets him pick his spells (specifically exempt in the BRB), and a regular mage who rolled the spell, that all ends with three wizzards with the same spell.

Where is that rule/iterpretation in the BRB or erratta?