To all ork players out there who know something about orks, how do they reproduce? and why do i never see any female orks

Orks are just a bunch of angry 'shrooms, they leave spores, then that's what they grow from

Okay so basicly they move from planet to planet leaving spores (how do they move from planet to planet (another ork question i have?)

Yes, exactly. They may be angry 'shrooms, but they have ships too, albeit very low-tech ships. You can find them on the occasional space hulk too.

Basically, soon after he dies, the Ork releases spores which lodge themselves in the ground and grow and a fully grown Ork eventually emerges. This is why the Imperium always burns Ork corpses quickly after the battle, so the spores are destroyed. It's the same with the 'nids. As for their ships, they just loot what they can and build very basic ships with the parts.

Blood Raven 5th Company wrote:Okay so basicly they move from planet to planet leaving spores (how do they move from planet to planet (another ork question i have?)

They essentially leap onto the nearest space hulk, and use it to travel the Warp by steering it into any nearby Warp Storms. Often, this leads them to random star systems, but as long as there's life on the planets that they arrive at, the Orks don't care too much.

One more ork question, i went down to my local game shop and saw a cople of guys playing warhammer orks vs nids and the ork player had a rhino with a huge cannon on the back is this unit legal?

Orks can loot anything and now they have looted a rhino and putted a big gun on the back (orks like big and noisy guns).

Lexicanum has pretty good info about orks:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ork

Gotta love Lootas

So let me get this strait an ork player can have any vehicle?

Yes, Orks can loot anything they can get their hands on. Even Carnifexes.

I remember the hilariously awesome looted monolith battlefortress.

In theory, if it's not nailed down the Orks can nick it. Even then, they're likely to just prise the desired object loose if it actually is nailed down. They can't use the actual rules for the vehicles they nick, though; those are covered by the Looted Wagon and Battlewagon entries in the codex.

Ork mechanics have genetic memory allowing them, pretty incredible scientific minds for the lack of schooling, they can convert lots of stuff into weapons and make things go vrrrrrroooooooooom,

The spore reproduction system means that worlds that have suffered a warrrrrrgh will have a continual problem with savage ork incursions, like after the 2nd and 3rd wars on Armageddon.

yep. thats how feral ork tribes happen

Seriously this is all of the questions you have about Orks? They are by far the best developed fluff in the game, don't let your curiosity die here.

Man the orks are cool (damn now i want them)

If orks land on the planet (and it becomes infected by them) and the local marines kill them (renegade ravens) how long would it take them to re amass?

Depending on what planet it is, I'm pretty sure there aren't any "local" marines. As per the regrouping time, look at this: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ork_Physiology#Reproduction

Thanks for the link
as for the"local Marines" i am designing my marines to be renegades that live on 1 planet.

Blood Raven 5th Company wrote:If orks land on the planet (and it becomes infected by them) and the local marines kill them (renegade ravens) how long would it take them to re amass?

If an average Ork Waaagh! is defeated, but orks remain on the planet, it can take anywhere from a week to a decade for them to fully regroup.

orkses is never truly defeted!!

Not so much fully regroup them just be big enough to send raiders

Blood Raven 5th Company wrote:Not so much fully regroup them just be big enough to send raiders

As said even if an ork invasion force is kicked off the planet/most killed. Feral ork populations will begin growing in the years after this from the leftover spores. Given the right conditions it might only take a few years for them to become a threat in their own right. Especially if its a frontier world with less established garrisons and defences.

Now I'm gonna get the ork codex and start collecting them

Could it be possible for an ork to loot a drop pod or a craft world?

Blood Raven 5th Company wrote:Could it be possible for an ork to loot a drop pod or a craft world?

As long as it conforms to the Codex: Orks Heavy Support entry "Looted Wagon."

It is admittedly actually pretty crappy. Better idea: field it as a battlewagon - transports 20 models, front armor 14, open-topped, and up to 6 guns (though one would be ordnance).

So... it can be either or if its another model it can only be a looted wagon?

Looted monoliths smash puny Necrons.

Blood Raven 5th Company wrote:So... it can be either or if its another model it can only be a looted wagon?

Or a Battlewagon, which is preferable.

Looted Wagon:
AV's 11, 11, 10
1 Main Gun
2 Small Guns
Transports 12

Battlewagon:
AV's 14, 12, 10
2 Main Guns
4 Small Guns
Transports 20

yer buck can a battle wagon be any other WH40K tank?

I don't see why not.

My friend has an orkified land raider. He uses one sponson lascannon as a zzap gun and replaced the other with four big shootas. The kannon sticks out of the HB slot at the front and the entire assembly basically has the top ripped open (i.e. to make it open-topped).

Any Ork vehicle can be converted from any vehicle that can feasibly exist in 40k.

So i could pass of a land speeder (give it wheels) and call it a buggy (of course make its wepons fit)

sure why not?


I would suggest that you browse the gallery for ork stuff if you want some ideas. There is a lot of cool stuff there.

Yeah, the "looted wagon" "battlewagon" and "trukk" can be really any model as long as it's Orky. there's a few upgrades, any big gun on a model can become a boomgun or Killcannon, you can add things like boarding planks and wrecking balls for fun.

What's the fun of playing orks if you have to have vehicles that look the same, I ask you? it's much orkier to get a massive hodgepodge of vehicles, tack some metal bitz on them, make them choppier and shootier, and drive em out on the field!

my blood axe army uses nowt but chimera's for trukks, hellhounds for super skorchas, russ tanks for big trakks etc.

god i love orks

Are orks from WH related to the ones in WH40K?

In theory, there is no real link between them in terms of fluff (ie the Old World, though it's theorised to exist there, has never been mentioned in current 40K mythos bar the existence in both of the Old Ones). However, it's a reasonably certain assumption that Orks and Orcs are pretty much the same race.

It has been supposed that the planet of Fantasy could je=ust be a feudal planet in the 40K universe.

Exactly so. Personally, I like the idea of it existing in the 40K universe, as a sort of old testing ground for the Old Ones that was left to it's own devices after they vanished.

Orks are far better designed than Orcs, however.

Well, they certainly have better access to technology. I wouldn't say it was to do with design, though. After all, 40K does not have access to the Black Orcs, which are arguably better than the average Ork.
Still, the point still stands; orcs are essentially feral orks.
Unless you're referring to game mechanics, of course. In which case I couldn't possibly comment.

Black Orcs = Nobz.

Only without access to mega armor.

okay and who is Mork and Gork?

Melissia wrote:Black Orcs = Nobz.

Only without access to mega armor.

Not quite, though you're right in some respects. Black Orcs are actually a whole subspecies of orc, whose toughness and militaristic ideals as well as their very dark skin mark them out as more powerful fighters. Nobz are just regular greenskins with combat experience. They still don't have access to mega armour though.

As to Mork and Gork, they're the Orkish gods. one is Kunning yet Brutal, and the other is Brutal yet Kunning.

Blood Raven 5th Company wrote:okay and who is Mork and Gork?

Dont hear that asked to often. They are easily the most powerful of all the gods that exists. They are twins. But as mentioned one is cunning yet brutal and the other is brutal yet cunning. So they are the embodiment of how Orks are. Supposedly the reason they dont kill the other gods, is because then they wont have anything to play tricks on and beat up

Ever practical, then.

Do fantasy Orcs reproduce like 40k Orks? I remember female Orc cheerleaders in Bloodbowl.

They used to have females, but were later retconned so as to reproduce like Orks do. Keeps it family-friendly, you see; kids couldn't ask how half-orcs were made, then, thus embarassing the staff.

Orkses are the toughest race yet. They don't need no girls- they spore once they die, and then spread that way as well. That's why flamers work so well against them. Fluffwise, they're the most fun to play.

Technically Orks don't need boys, either. They are neither male nor female.

Ok, so when an ork dies, he releases spores. These spores then grow into a full grown ork? Like a pumpkin or watermelon? Meaning growing on top of the ground. Or, do they grow like carrots? Meaning underground.

Orks release spores throughout their entire lives, it's just that when they die, they release a mass of them all at once (provided the corpse isn't burnt up)
These spores are capable of producing Orks, grots, snotlings and squigs, regardless of which of the subspecies dropped them.
When the spores find a suitable place to grow, the Orkoid develops in a cocoon underground while the only thing marking their existence above ground are mushrooms that sprout up (which also acts as a food source for the faster developing snotlings and squigs)

It's also worth mentioning that in area where there are no-longer any orks but spores have taken root, any of the more sophisticated orkoid creature which may have been growing, like orks or gretchin for example, can be killed by the mushroom from which they are growing.

Since all orks are connected psychically ork 'shrooms are able to tell how concentrated that psychic presence is, so when it is weak they produce what is most necessary to establishing an ork population.

So that would firstly mean more mushrooms, then squigs, then snotlings, then gretchin and then orks. This ensures that all the basic fundmentals that ork society needs in order to function effectively are present at the right time.

ToBeWilly wrote:Ok, so when an ork dies, he releases spores. These spores then grow into a full grown ork? Like a pumpkin or watermelon? Meaning growing on top of the ground. Or, do they grow like carrots? Meaning underground.

The orkoid itself, if any are produced, grow underground in a membrane not dissimilar from a womb in terms of purpose. When the orkoid reaches maturity, it will then break free of the underground sac and begin life on the surface.

dude, were like, giant green buff mushrooms. of course we can loot tanks and dont need chicks!
only way to cleanse a planet of orks is to exterminatus the crap outta it.

Okay, what is the best paint scheme for orks?.. what is the one with red hair?

In theory, there's no "best" paint scheme - it depends on the Klan and preferences of the player. You can paint your orks pretty much how you like.
Red hair, you say? Sounds like Evil Suns!

Well when i said best i meant biggest warrgh (sorry if spelling is off) what are the orks in assult on black reach?

They're Goffs, and in theory they're the largest Klan, I think.
Ghazghull Thraka is a Goff.

Orks don't even technically have hair, they occasionally just wear hair-squigs. Which are literally squigs that bite into the head of the Ork, and whom happen to have tails that look like hair.


It goes like this:

Bad Moons: Yellow and red, favor lots of upgrades and expensive weapons.
Blood Axes: Red and Brown, favor organization, kommandoz, and tactics.
Deathskulls: Favor blue primarily, infamous for their looters and looted tanks.
Evil Sunz: Strongly favor red, tend towards speed freaks.
Goffs: Favor checkered black and white, tend towards green tide.
Snakebites: Favor green and brown, tend towards feral boyz (not available in the current codex).
Your custom clan: Favors some color. Tends towards some tendencies.

Since Orks come from fungi spores why haven't anyone come up with an Ork-a-cide to kill the spores?

tigonesskay wrote:Since Orks come from fungi spores why haven't anyone come up with an Ork-a-cide to kill the spores?

That would be a good and very effective way to kill orks, we shall call it Orktien (from mortien if they have that where you are from)

Melissia wrote:Orks don't even technically have hair, they occasionally just wear hair-squigs. Which are literally squigs that bite into the head of the Ork, and whom happen to have tails that look like hair.


It goes like this:

Bad Moons: Yellow and red, favor lots of upgrades and expensive weapons.
Blood Axes: Red and Brown, favor organization, kommandoz, and tactics.
Deathskulls: Favor blue primarily, infamous for their looters and looted tanks.
Evil Sunz: Strongly favor red, tend towards speed freaks.
Goffs: Favor checkered black and white, tend towards green tide.
Snakebites: Favor green and brown, tend towards feral boyz (not available in the current codex).
Your custom clan: Favors some color. Tends towards some tendencies.

thank you however i wasn't actually thinking for my orks but for the ork costume i am building I just need to choose the colours now.

See above.

Which one do you favor most?

A Goff Ork would wear blacks and whites, with checkered black and white patterns occasionally, for example.


As for killing the spores.. actually, spores are some of the hardest biological constructions to kill...

Based on the checkered black and white on the box cover, I'd say it's intended to be Goffs.

Melissia wrote:See above.

Which one do you favor most?

A Goff Ork would wear blacks and whites, with checkered black and white patterns occasionally, for example.


As for killing the spores.. actually, spores are some of the hardest biological constructions to kill...

No doubt. I've seen toe fungus that made nails grow straight up and down and resists every anti-fungal known to man. Not my toes mind you....


I always liked the Ork spore idea, thought it was one of the better pieces of fiction GW came up with. What's that quote....something along the lines of "What do you hear if you get to the edge of the galaxy? Orks...."

Blood Raven 5th Company wrote:What are the ones you get in black reach?

I think somehow your post and mine got messed up. Here's my response:

Melissia wrote:Based on the checkered black and white on the box cover, I'd say it's intended to be Goffs.

thank you.

Whatever you paint them.

they teach you how to paint them.

Whatever you paint them.

tigonesskay wrote:Since Orks come from fungi spores why haven't anyone come up with an Ork-a-cide to kill the spores?

Because you have to figure out where they are, first. Ork spores are very difficult and in some cases impossible to find, as they can settle in the most remote of places.

But there is an Ork-a-cide and its called an exterminatus.

Obviously not the most ideal method, though, is it?

Blood Raven 5th Company wrote:But there is an Ork-a-cide and its called an exterminatus.

That just shows how resilient Orks actually are. When you have to blow a friggin planet up, just to make sure they are gone, thats pretty extreme. Infact, I wouldnt be surprised if you came back a few years later, and saw Orks fighting on the rocks left over from the planet. Some fluff suggests they can survive in space.

I also like that part of fluff where some Imperial something or nother, mentions that as far as they could send probes into space, they have found nothing but Ork occupied planets and thats it. I like to imagine system after system after system of nothing but Orks. Kindda makes you wonder, if there really is THAt many Orks out there, is Ghaz really the biggest and strongest? Thats ALOT of chances for something bigger and tougher to come around. Hell its not uncommon for Ork tribes that have been in long combat with the Imperium to have boyz the size of nobz, and nobz the size of bosses and so on.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:In theory, there is no real link between them in terms of fluff (ie the Old World, though it's theorised to exist there, has never been mentioned in current 40K mythos bar the existence in both of the Old Ones). However, it's a reasonably certain assumption that Orks and Orcs are pretty much the same race.

Yer GW used to have alot more cryptic links between the two (like similar races, the old ones, names of gods and sigmar might of being a missing primarch), but they have tried to seperate them as much as possible.

Melissia wrote:Black Orcs = Nobz.

Black orcs were specially bred by chaos orcs as slaves before they rebeled and joined up with the rest of orcdom. Nobz are just normal orks, due to the heavy link between ork physiology and the ork psychic field, an increase in power and respect within their tribe (usually linked to number of teef owned and others killed) leads to the ork growing.


I love the fact that because Gork and Mork are so powerful they can heavily effect the real world, orks believe if you paint a bike red it will go faster, this belief actually makes it go faster, ace.

I know what Black Orcs are in fluff, but as far as actual gameplay purpose, they're basically the same or very similar.

@ melissia thank you for your help in the end i went with da Goffs and it looked epic.

@kingcraker orks may be strong and in large numbers however they need a leader or they will just sit and do nothing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@ melissia thank you for your help in the end i went with da Goffs and it looked epic.

@kingcraker orks may be strong and in large numbers however they need a leader or they will just sit and do nothing.

Well, not so much sit and do nothing as kick each other about for fun, but the general principle is the same.

Melissia wrote:Orks don't even technically have hair, they occasionally just wear hair-squigs. Which are literally squigs that bite into the head of the Ork, and whom happen to have tails that look like hair.

At least at one point, these long filaments were the gills of hair squigs.

Of course, being squigs, it's probably the case that some squigs have hair-like tails, and other squigs have hair-like gills.

In any case,

Yer gets a hair squig and yer put it on yer bonce. Hey presto, hair!

If Orks don't have a strong leader, the strongest one nearby will become the leader, and then the one closest to him will challenge him until he's fought everyone down to submission and killed. When finally someone has fought everyone down to submission, voila, Orks now have a strong leader.

Hell, even when leaderless, all Orks need is a direction at which to yell WAAAGH! and charge at killing everything in their path. And any non-Ork force is a good enough reason to do that.

Well, I guess that's about it.
Any other questions, BR5C?

Blood Raven 5th Company wrote:@ melissia thank you for your help in the end i went with da Goffs and it looked epic.

@kingcraker orks may be strong and in large numbers however they need a leader or they will just sit and do nothing.


.

PAH! Do nothing you say? They kick the gak out of one another, thats not doing nothing, thats Ork training at its best my friend

Don't forget the squig eating contests or racing trukks. Plenty of things going on in an ork camp other than fighting. Although there's a lot of fighting.

KingCracker wrote:

Blood Raven 5th Company wrote:@ melissia thank you for your help in the end i went with da Goffs and it looked epic.

@kingcraker orks may be strong and in large numbers however they need a leader or they will just sit and do nothing.


.

PAH! Do nothing you say? They kick the gak out of one another, thats not doing nothing, thats Ork training at its best my friend

Well nobody can do nothing. I meant they where doing nothing to any one else.

marauder6272 wrote:Orks release spores throughout their entire lives, it's just that when they die, they release a mass of them all at once (provided the corpse isn't burnt up)
These spores are capable of producing Orks, grots, snotlings and squigs, regardless of which of the subspecies dropped them.

An Ork village/settlement will have a dedicated place called "The Drops" it's usually a tower platform with a hole in the floor. This is where Orks... relieve themselves. In the collection of... "dropped" material spores grow and as said above Ork, Grots, Snots, and Squigs are "born"

No, the drops aren't where Orks are born, they're where squigs feed.

So Orks fight until one of them is strong enough to tell the rest who to fight?


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Poor ol orks. And i thought space marines were the main faction taking out their sexual frustrations on everyone else.

While it can be argued Marines do, being former humans, Orks aren't human or even related to humans in any way.

Orks simply don't have sexual frustrations. They don't think about or care about reproduction. It doesn't ever cross their minds, even once.

Maybe the Orks do think of reproduction, since their main method is through these spores they are quite willing to die to create offspring.
An instinct to kill themselves (through battle) which creates new orks from the corpses must help the species. If all orks were pacifist how quickly would they expand?

Orks don't seek death. They just seek war, as fighting is the cause of their growth. An Ork can theoretically live for eternity if they never get killed in battle.

As a side note, Orks are the only race that does not naturally fear death, as they were immune to the Nightbringer's curse on all living beings. Orks don't fear death, or seek it-- they just want to fight.

ChaosGalvatron wrote:Maybe the Orks do think of reproduction, since their main method is through these spores they are quite willing to die to create offspring.
An instinct to kill themselves (through battle) which creates new orks from the corpses must help the species. If all orks were pacifist how quickly would they expand?

They shed spores there entire live, when they die they release a massive amount. So even if, by some chance the Orks were just setting around having beers, they would still be "breeding".

Blood Raven 5th Company wrote:Now I'm gonna get the ork codex and start collecting them

You have made the right choice, my friend. Orks are the BEST army in the game. WAAAGGHHHH!!!! Soon the Ooniverse will be yours to command!

Melissia wrote:While it can be argued Marines do, being former humans, Orks aren't human or even related to humans in any way.

Orks simply don't have sexual frustrations. They don't think about or care about reproduction. It doesn't ever cross their minds, even once.

chapters may have their rivalry with one another, however to attack another marine is heresy and would not be done. that being said they do spar to train.

How is that relevant to what I said...?

Melissia wrote:How is that relevant to what I said...?

It isn't.
He thought you were talking about marines attacking other marines as opposed what you were actually talking about which was marines attacking aliens, mutants, heretic etc

ChaosGalvatron wrote:Maybe the Orks do think of reproduction, since their main method is through these spores they are quite willing to die to create offspring.
An instinct to kill themselves (through battle) which creates new orks from the corpses must help the species. If all orks were pacifist how quickly would they expand?

Orks don't think of sex as they are completely asexual, and don't wish for 'glorious death in battle', they are designed (actually designed) to want battle, not to die, but to win and as melissia said they don't fear death either. Orks are more like a weapon that a warrior, they don't fight because they think its just or they are scaried of other species, but because they are made for war

BluntmanDC wrote:

ChaosGalvatron wrote:Maybe the Orks do think of reproduction, since their main method is through these spores they are quite willing to die to create offspring.
An instinct to kill themselves (through battle) which creates new orks from the corpses must help the species. If all orks were pacifist how quickly would they expand?

Orks don't think of sex as they are completely asexual, and don't wish for 'glorious death in battle', they are designed (actually designed) to want battle, not to die, but to win and as melissia said they don't fear death either. Orks are more like a weapon that a warrior, they don't fight because they think its just or they are scaried of other species, but because they are made for war

They might not think of sex (presumably dont even understand it), but they must be aware of their own reproductive cycle.
I was trying to say that if orks were pacifist then the spores from their death thing wouldnt be so important, but because they exist to fight like you said it encourages them to find battle, and then if they win, they get bigger and stronger (better for the next fight) and if they die it means they help along the reproductive cycle. They might not go into battle expecting or wishing to die but any result is a win for them.
They do seem quite well crafted as a weapon.

ChaosGalvatron wrote:They might not think of sex (presumably dont even understand it), but they must be aware of their own reproductive cycle.

Orks will know about how they are 'born' but what difference does it make? An ork shedding spores is like a human shedding skin cells, a complete irrelevance which you're barely even aware of. Part of the problem with orks in this respect is that, with no fear of death they also lack any deep attachment to life, if an ork gets his face bitten off by a gnasher squig it isn't a horrible accident, it's funny. If an ork gets immolated razzing his trukk and then losing control of it, it isn't a horrific, tragic death, it's funny. Orks believe that when they die Gork or Mork belches them into a new body, life and death are not important because for orks it's all just a never-ending cycle. Life, Death and Rebirth are virtually meaningless to an ork.

Too often orks are presented in a very two dimensional way and one of my favourite stories has a moment in it where the ork boss thinks about all his mates who've died, all his old drinking cronies that are gone and he misses them, ever so slightly. That's about as much as you're goingto get from an ork because really they just don't care as long as they're fighting and winning and having a good scrap.

As you say, orks are weapons of war; hardy, self-replicating, aggressive, fearless [of death] with an inate love of battle with all the relevant knowledge encoded into their DNA, they even produce their own food, and use teeth as currency. In many respects orks aren't just the perfect warriors, they have the perfect society too where there is little deprivation or want and even when things get tough for an ork it's not a big deal, it's all just a bit of a laugh.

Melissia wrote:How is that relevant to what I said...?

It has rellivance to the first part of the post. just pointing out that Marines do not fight one another. (well apart from chaos)

Blood Raven 5th Company wrote:

Melissia wrote:How is that relevant to what I said...?

It has rellivance to the first part of the post. just pointing out that Marines do not fight one another. (well apart from chaos)

weeeellll....... that's not strictly true, there have been instances of minor skirmishes between chapters. Other than that, of course, you're right.

When you say minor do you mean for example when the IG and SM fought on kronus. just with SM instead of guard.

Orks are pretty cool guys. eh fights Space Marine and doesn't afraid of anything.

BR5th, you should probably invest in the Ork Codex before buying any model. Beyond the fact that most of your questions are answered in there, there is a lot of cool stuff you don't even know about, such as about the different clans. Additionally, by buying the codex before any models, you are able to avoid units that rock in Dawn of War but kinda suck on the tabletop (I'm looking at you, Flash Gits).

ChaosGalvatron wrote:They might not think of sex (presumably dont even understand it), but they must be aware of their own reproductive cycle.

Must they?

They are completely alien to us in so many other ways, why must they be similar to us in this way?

Melissia wrote:

ChaosGalvatron wrote:They might not think of sex (presumably dont even understand it), but they must be aware of their own reproductive cycle.

Must they?

They are completely alien to us in so many other ways, why must they be similar to us in this way?

an ork's reproductive cycle is as important to an ork as the generation of plasma is to a plasma gun.

pratell wrote:an ork's reproductive cycle is as important to an ork as the generation of plasma is to a plasma gun.

Cite your source.

Seriously, Orks don't ever talk or think about reproduction in any piece of fiction I've read. It doesn't occur to them, they just assume there will always be more boyz.

I could just imagine a single ork being stranded on a rock and one day there's two.

Where'd you come from?!!

Mr Nobody wrote:I could just imagine a single ork being stranded on a rock and one day there's two.

Where'd you come from?!!

As I mentioned earlier, (although I assume you aren't being serious but it's worth mentioning I suppose) that would almost certainly not happen. Since orks use everything that grows from the spores they shed, every organism that is lesser than an ork is fundamental to the creation or ork society. If a single ork was all that remained then there would not be enough psychic resonance to produce other orks only lots of fungus until eventually there was enough fungus for snotlings to develop and so on until eventually there was enough to warrant the emergence of orks.

pratell wrote:
an ork's reproductive cycle is as important to an ork as the generation of plasma is to a plasma gun.

Like I very recently said, to an ork, the shedding of spores, which is all it takes for an ork to reproduce, is as relevant to them as shedding skin cells is to a human. Also a plasma gun is a non-sentient, non-sapient lump of metal and plastic it has no mind to care about whether it is able to shoot plasma or not.

Blood Raven 5th Company wrote:Okay so basicly they move from planet to planet leaving spores (how do they move from planet to planet (another ork question i have?)

By travelling on space hulks; large amounts of trash floating through space.

Orks are pretty cool

Okay. so Orks dont care about how they reproduce but how does a new ork show up?
Does a pod grow and it comes out of the pod?
Are they underground like plants and dig their way out?
Does the new ork just join with the first group he sees or do orks grow in groups?
And is a new ork the size of an ork in a boyz mob or is that an ork that has gone through a few fights to get where he is?

ChaosGalvatron wrote:Okay. so Orks dont care about how they reproduce but how does a new ork show up?

I already covered this on page two and I've reiterated the points since then but for one last time. Ahem.

Orks produce a psychic field which isn't strong enough to make each ork a psyker but it acts like a gestalt consciousness, linking orks together on a genetic and spritual level.

Let's say an Imperial world is invaded by orks but the orks are destroyed. Let us also say that some spores have escaped into the environment and landed in just the right places to germinate. From that spoor a mushroom will grow and typically the higher forms of orkoid life will grow in a sack beneath it, under the ground.

Generally anything could grow but you have to remember the psychic presence orks generate. Now let's assume that we only have one mushroom, the psychic field will be almost nil so, even if that mushroom was in the process of growing an ork it can terminate that process and reabsorb any nutrients lost so far in the growing of that ork. The reason being that one ork on his own isn't going to do very much.

Instead orkoid mushrooms can determine what they generate, optimishing for the most useful orkoid lifeforms. In this case, more mushrooms. Once there is a signinificant amount of mushrooms then you will get snotlings who harvest and grow the mushrooms. In the distant past these snotlings would have eaten enhancing mushrooms which would have allowed them to fully mature and become Brain Boyz but since those particluar mushrooms no-longer exist snotlings just stay as snotlings. Then you will get squigly beasts, then gretchin, then orks.

Typically this new ork community will be feral and wild, with little technological sophistication but as the community grows it will become more sophisticated, usually. Typically, these sorts of feral orks will appear on worlds which already have other orks on them, spores can drift a long way you see. More sophisticated orks will then recruit, or try to recruit, these feral orks, maybe orks travelling through space are drawn to worlds with feral ork communities.


In older background these feral orks, Wild Ones, came about when old orks, overcome with the need to reproduce, toddled off into the wilderness to whelp; back when orks were marsupial type creatures with pouches. Ork yoofs would be trained by the old orks although they would not be One of the Boyz yet. Since the newer backgground from GorkaMorka made orks reproduce via spores then that's all gone out the window and what you get now are small groups of feral ork yoofs living out in the wilderness with only each other tp fight and grots to stick the boot into.

Cool thanks.

So are there thresholds for orks to develop the higher intelligence versions (the mekboys and painboyz and stuff)? So maybe when you have a 100 orks then you start getting painboyz. and then when you have 1,000 orks you start getting mekboys? This would tie into the psychic field now been strong enough for the mushrooms to choose to grow those orks.
Or is it orks that were boyz wake up one day and have the knowledge to be mekboys or painboys or whatever other categories?

I'm wondering where he got that from, as I don't recall reading that in the latest Ork codex. It could just be speculation for all I know.

While I DO recall information about how Ork colonies tend to go from Fungus -> Squigs -> Grots -> Boyz, I don't remember it being THAT specific about information.

I'm with Melissia, regarding orkish concern over their own survival and reproduction; they simply don't give a Source: Ork codex, p.8

"The Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn? And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude." -Uthan the Perverse, Eldar Philosopher

Melissia wrote:I remember the hilariously awesome looted monolith battlefortress.

I must see this

Melissia wrote:I'm wondering where he got that from, as I don't recall reading that in the latest Ork codex.

I got it from the best part of twenty years playing 40K and seeing how Games Workshop developed the orks over that time.

It could just be speculation for all I know.

Yeah, what you know... Pfft.


As for the timing of the emergence of Oddboys there aren't any specifics given. I would theorise that there is some link though. All orks have a basic understanding of technology although, Feral Orks will know less since no other orks are around for them to learn from. I would imagine that it could be possible for one of these yoofs, with a little more interest in to become a full on Mekboy in a group that does not have one; it fits with what we do know for certain about how ork society grows which is based around the idea that there are never roo many or one type or orkoid so it makes sense that there are as amnay Oddboyz as there needs to be and various orks will exhibit these skills when necessary et cetera.

ChaosGalvatron wrote:Okay. so Orks dont care about how they reproduce but how does a new ork show up?
Does a pod grow and it comes out of the pod?
Are they underground like plants and dig their way out?
Does the new ork just join with the first group he sees or do orks grow in groups?
And is a new ork the size of an ork in a boyz mob or is that an ork that has gone through a few fights to get where he is?

Finally someone else helping with questions. im not the only one that has them.

Blood Raven 5th Company wrote:

ChaosGalvatron wrote:Okay. so Orks dont care about how they reproduce but how does a new ork show up?
Does a pod grow and it comes out of the pod?
Are they underground like plants and dig their way out?
Does the new ork just join with the first group he sees or do orks grow in groups?
And is a new ork the size of an ork in a boyz mob or is that an ork that has gone through a few fights to get where he is?

Finally someone else helping with questions. im not the only one that has them.

I answered the first two questions earlier, but what the heck, I'll answer them anyway.
Orks grow underground in a womb-like chamber. When they reach a certain size, they crawl out to the surface, where they begin life proper. Orks generally emerge in groups, so as to better increase their chances of survival; this is down to the strange psychic link between the hatchlings. The new ork is, I think, about the size of a young teenage human, and grows to maturity in a much shorter time than humans do. So yes, they don't start off as fully grown Boyz.

But it doesnt take long for them to get to fightin size. Also I seem to remember reading somewhere, that in larger more prosperous clans, they actually purposely grow boyz to make the WAAAGH! bigger. Either way I know that the spores are tended to by grots/squigs and runtherders. So if your a lucky Ork that is born ina big clan, your pretty much pulled from the ground, inspected and them given some crude metal and a sent on your way.

Gogsnik wrote:I got it from the best part of twenty years playing 40K and seeing how Games Workshop developed the orks over that time.

That is not a citation.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic here, I'm merely asking for a direct GW source. I don't even disagree with you (actually I feel you're correct), but I want to know where, exactly, YOU got it from. If you can't figure out where you got the information from, it could very well be wrong.

Blood Raven 5th Company wrote:So let me get this strait an ork player can have any vehicle?

Just to clarify:

FLUFF:
Ork vehicles can be made from all manner of stolen/salvaged vehicles: they "loot" Imperial vehicles and then "orkify" them.

Modeling:
Ork players may convert ork vehicles using IG/SM vehicle, etc.

RULES:
Ork armies DO NOT simply take vehicles from other codexes and use the rules for them. Orks have rules in their codex for "Looted wagons" to cover this.

Just wanted to clarify.

Note that they do not have to use IG/SM vehicles, they can use any other vehicle of appropriate size.

She's right, you know.
During the War of Dakka, there were accounts of orkish looted Hammerheads and Skyrays that the orks had downed and then refitted with weapons and engines of their own, as well as the weapons that they found on the vehicles themselves.

Melissia wrote:I'm not trying to be antagonistic here, I'm merely asking for a direct GW source.

If you re-read my post more closely, you will see that I do reference GorkaMorka as the source for the current background that has orks produced via spores. This is the source of the background as well as numerous White Dwarf articles since GorkaMorka came out; and before you ask I am not going to trawl through one hundred and forty plus issues of White Dwarf for those specific articles.

I NEVER asked for whether or not Orks reproduce by spores.

Rather, I wanted this particular quote to be cited, though I should have been more specific

Instead orkoid mushrooms can determine what they generate, optimishing for the most useful orkoid lifeforms. In this case, more mushrooms. Once there is a signinificant amount of mushrooms then you will get snotlings who harvest and grow the mushrooms. In the distant past these snotlings would have eaten enhancing mushrooms which would have allowed them to fully mature and become Brain Boyz but since those particluar mushrooms no-longer exist snotlings just stay as snotlings. Then you will get squigly beasts, then gretchin, then orks.

There's various aspects of this which I am unsure are actually in official, modern fluff, but most prominently:

-- The brainboyz bit is suggested to be Imperial speculation in the fourth edition codex, where do you find that they suggest it was for real?
-- The first three sentences, while sounding logical, I think need a citation as I don't think GW ever got that specific.

I'm pretty sure it's not so much decision as the strength of the Orkoid psychic presence in the area. Still, I haven't read Gorkamorka's rulebook, so whatever, I could be wrong.

I think the Krork theory is more accurate than the Brain Boyz theory, myself.

I always assumed the Brainboyz were the Old Ones, or how the orks remembered them anyway.

Melissia wrote:snip

This is going the same direction as other conversations I've had with you and the last time I promised myself I would never spend hours and hours going through books to find a sentence here, a paragraph there, just because you seem to think that anything you haven't read isn't real. Therefore I am going to take your tack from last time and 'not bother'.

Also, terming something 'modern fluff' is irrelevant, unless Games Workshop has actually re-written a piece of background (orks used to reproduce via marsupial pouches now via spores for example) then it doesn't matter how old it is it is still current. Games Workshop prints things once and very rarely prints them again, yes that does mean quite often the readership are assumed to have knowledge they may not have but that's something to take up with Games Workshop. It may be your opinion or preference to rate the source material by age, publisher, or the fact you just don't like it (Daemonifuge for example) but that's your problem not mine.


As for the Krork, they may or may not be orks, we don't know in either case but based on the material presented in Xenology, GorkaMorka, Codex: Orks, it does not rule out or contradict the idea of the Brain Boyz in any way. It's also always been the case that with regards to the Brain Boyz they are supposed to be what snotlings used to be when they were able to mature (they probably still could be Brain Boyz even now, they just don't have the means to mature any more). You may choose to believe it, you may choose not to believe it, you may choose to ignore it, whatever, it's no skin off my nose.

Someone asked a question, I answered it, do with that information what you will.

Gogsnik wrote:[... off-topic stuff removed...]
As for the Krork, they may or may not be orks, we don't know in either case but based on the material presented in Xenology, GorkaMorka, Codex: Orks, it does not rule out or contradict the idea of the Brain Boyz in any way. It's also always been the case that with regards to the Brain Boyz they are supposed to be what snotlings used to be when they were able to mature (they probably still could be Brain Boyz even now, they just don't have the means to mature any more). You may choose to believe it, you may choose not to believe it, you may choose to ignore it, whatever, it's no skin off my nose.

Someone asked a question, I answered it, do with that information what you will.

The fact that the Brain Boyz theory is now considered an Imperial theory (see the latest Ork codex) puts doubt on its continued canonicity, however.

The Imperium believes a lot of things about non-humans. A lot of them aren't exactly very accurate.

And you didn't answer the other part...

i have seen looted carnifexes as well, do what ever you want!

I like that though not really a vehicle.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
yet another questions, have orks ever fought Tyranids? if so who won?

There have been both wins and losses for both sides. There was a battle on Tesla Prime between a splinter fleet of Leviathan and a tribe of Lootas who had found some experimental weaponry. The Orks are implied to have won that one.
On the other hand, the Ork empire of Octavius is slowly being crushed by another splinter fleet. If reinforcements don't arrive soon, they may well lose.

Melissia wrote:Note that they do not have to use IG/SM vehicles, they can use any other vehicle of appropriate size.

Yes, but my main point that I wanted to get across was that while you can use a variety of models to represent ork "looted vehicles" that the rules for them come from the ORk codex.

I got the impression that the OP thought you could simply cherry pick vehicles (and their rules) from various codexes and use them in an ork army, which is false.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:
On the other hand, the Ork empire of Octavius is slowly being crushed by another splinter fleet. If reinforcements don't arrive soon, they may well lose.

Err, what? No, it's a stalemate, which is beneficial to Orks but not to Tyranids. Where'd you get that Orks are losing?

Melissia wrote:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:
On the other hand, the Ork empire of Octavius is slowly being crushed by another splinter fleet. If reinforcements don't arrive soon, they may well lose.

Err, what? No, it's a stalemate, which is beneficial to Orks but not to Tyranids. Where'd you get that Orks are losing?

It's heavily implied in the Tyranid codex, I believe. Sorry, should have stated that. My bad!

Hrm. I should probably read the bug dex someday, but I really couldn't be arsed... bugs don't interest me at all.

They are just a teensy bit overstated in terms of how they're going to eat the galaxy and nothing can stop them.

Melissia wrote:The fact that the Brain Boyz theory is now considered an Imperial theory...

'Many of the more civilised races of the galaxy have speculated about where the seemingly omnipresent Ork race came from...'

Codex Orks, page seven

No specific mention of the Imperium or Imperial historians.

'The Runtherdz refer to the mysterious forefathers of the Orks as the Brainboyz.'

Codex Orks, page seven

Specific mention that the Brain Boyz history/legend is in fact Ork in origin and maintained by Orks.

...you didn't answer the other part...

Clarify, 'other part'.

Ah, the latter one is definitely a good source (orks themselves referring to it).

As for the last sentence...

Instead orkoid mushrooms can determine what they generate, optimishing for the most useful orkoid lifeforms. In this case, more mushrooms. Once there is a signinificant amount of mushrooms then you will get snotlings who harvest and grow the mushrooms.

While this matches up to what I know, I really don't know the source for it.

Melissia wrote:I really don't know the source for it.

Mm.

Good job cutting half a sentence off and then quoting it out of context and then not actually answering.

Out of context with what exactly? My post is consequent to yours and I replied to the pertinent part of it in the manner of my choosing. I did say earlier that I was going to follow your tack and 'not bother' [to provide the source/s].

As I say, you can trust the validity of what I have said or not; whichever you prefer.

If my asking you for a source offends you, then you are free to report my posts. But I do not believe that such a request is either against the rules or really rude whenever discussing background material. Until you provide a source for your claims, all that can be said about them is that they are speculation. When asked, I provide sources, so I certainly don't find it rude.

For my part, I agree with your conclusion, I merely wished to know where your information came from, exactly. If you cannot-- or are unwilling to-- say what your source is, then the information can be (and is) dismissed as such.

Melissia wrote: ...

My suggestion then to you in future, when confronted with a piece of background with which you are unfamiliar is to simply ask where it's from, instead of accusing someone of making things instead of conceitedly saying that if you haven't read it, it must be untrue. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, maybe when you don't know something the best thing to do is to jump strait to the conclusion that the other person is deluded and start warning people off becuase you think they've made it up.

You can dismiss what I have said if you like but everyone else who has read the source from which that information is taken will know the validity of it.

Gogsnik wrote:instead of accusing someone

You're really reading way too much into my "cite your source" requests.

I asked for your source so that I can go read it myself, it's really that simple. If you don't have a source, then you can't really say with 100% assurance that you are right. If this attitude offends you, then I make no apologies for it... this is a background forum after all, we're talking about the lore of 40k, and sometimes people have very weird ideas about how 40k works which have no backing in the background. I never even said you were one of them... I even said I agreed with you.

About three times.

So, shall we get back on topic? Please, cite your source for the information I requested. If it's just speculation, that's fine... just admit that it is and move on. It certainly sounds logical to me, but if it isn't stated in the background then the bit about the spores having the ability to detect psychic signals and decide which type of Orkoid to hatch is just speculation. Logical, reasonable speculation? Sure. But still speculation.

Gorskar to the rescue.

I believe the information you're looking for is in the previous Ork codex, in the Lukas Anzion bit. However, I don't believe it's a decision, par se, as opposed to something unthinking, like crocodiles' genders being determined in the egg due to the temperature of the surroundings.
Except, in this case, psychic links.

Thanks, I'll go look that up!

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:I believe the information you're looking for is in the previous Ork codex, in the Lukas Anzion bit.

It isn't from there.

Melissia wrote:You're really reading way too much into my "cite your source" requests.

I'm not bothered about citing sources.

For someone complaining about taking things out of context you do it yourself well enough. The objectionable post is this one, as if you didn't know:

Melissia wrote:I'm wondering where he got that from, as I don't recall reading that in the latest Ork codex. It could just be speculation for all I know.

While I DO recall information about how Ork colonies tend to go from Fungus -> Squigs -> Grots -> Boyz, I don't remember it being THAT specific about information.

Intending to say that if you, Melissia, have not read it it must not be true.

The proper form, when confronted with information with which you are unfamiliar, would be to merely ask where is it from and not to slag someone off.

It goes both ways, Gogsnik.

Just because one has not heard it is true, does not mean it is false. And just because one believes it is true does not mean that it is.

I'm not assuming it is false... I'm actually saying I think it's true, and that I agree with you. Four times now, I believe? But I need a source. A source is confirmation that it is, indeed, canon. If there is no source, you may be right, you may not... but you can't confirm it and so it is just speculation. Speculation does not equal false. Speculation means (to quote from the Princeton dictionary) "[a] guess: a message expressing an opinion based on incomplete evidence".

So yes. I agree that this is probably the way Ork reproduction works. But I need a source to confirm it and make sure that it is, in fact, the way it works. If there is no source, then I can still believe this is the way it works... but I would qualify that by saying "probably" instead, because I would not be entirely sure.


By the way, after reading through the thread again... I'd like to re-assert this: the fourth edition codex states that they produce spores all throughout their life. Not just at the time of death, though that is by far the time at which they produce the most. Death, I would presume, means that whatever spores they have on them scatter to the winds, and the fungus in the body starts to convert the animal portion and itself into spores.

Gogsnik wrote:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:I believe the information you're looking for is in the previous Ork codex, in the Lukas Anzion bit.

It isn't from there.

Seriously? Where is it from, then? I'm curious, now!

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:
Seriously? Where is it from, then? I'm curious, now!

I'm more than happy to oblige you there old chap. Around page forty (no page numbers are given) in Xenology, described as the "Taeltis Process of Embryonic Selection". As I said earlier, it allows the algal sac [within which an orkoid embryo gestates] to halt the process and begin anew on a more simpler orkoid lifeform on the basis that the simpler lifeforms, like a snotling or squig, grow faster and produce more spores, more quickly.

Melissia wrote:Hrm. I should probably read the bug dex someday, but I really couldn't be arsed... bugs don't interest me at all.

You probably should if you are going to keep saying that the Tyranids are losing that war, because that codex doesn't say that at all. If says both races are thriving on it (and both should - Tyranids need biomass to make more Tyranids. Orks produce limitless biomass. Neither side would gain the upper hand in terms of numbers).

-Loki- wrote:You probably should if you are going to keep saying that the Tyranids are losing that war, because that codex doesn't say that at all. If says both races are thriving on it (and both should - Tyranids need biomass to make more Tyranids. Orks produce limitless biomass. Neither side would gain the upper hand in terms of numbers).

You're failing to take into account the effect of constant fighting on the Ork system.

IE, constant warfare makes Orks stronger. It does not necessarily make Tyranids stronger, because they aren't really able to adapt their genetic code as quickly as people think they are given the lack of adaptations that use the Ork genetic code despite constantly running into Orks.

I'm merely saying, with my usual bias towards Orks, that Orks really have FAR more to gain from a war of attrition than Tyranids do.

Yes.
This, in general, is a given fact about the Boyz, to the point that Armageddon has been turned into the Ork equivalent of Mecca.

We've been through this before in the last race standing thread.

Melissia wrote:IE, constant warfare makes Orks stronger. It does not necessarily make Tyranids stronger, because they aren't really able to adapt their genetic code as quickly as people think they are given the lack of adaptations that use the Ork genetic code despite constantly running into Orks.

I'm merely saying, with my usual bias towards Orks, that Orks really have FAR more to gain from a war of attrition than Tyranids do.

Oh, I'm quite aware of the whole 'more fighting = stronger Orks'. However, again, something is mentioned in the Tyranid codex that you don't know, because you haven't read it. Tyranids certainly can adapt their genetics that quickly. It describes a war where the Tyranids had significantly altered the makeup of their creatures (not forces, down to the individual creature level) between every attack wave, not over a long period of time. They can adapt themselves into a corner like this - it was abused by the Tau when they realized that shooting synapse creatures is a good idea, and the Tyranids didn't have the biomass left to grow some bigger creatures.

However, looking at the Octarius war, and the extreme adaptability of the Tyranids shown by Hive Fleet Naga (I think, it was one of the smaller hive fleets), its certainly possible that the Tyranids can win. Their extreme adaptability is documented in fluff, ad the only weakness to it is biomass shortage. The fact that they're fighting a race that provides them with effectively limitless biomass, means that weakness in their adaptability is pretty well negated. They've got just as much chance of winning that war as the Orks do.

-Loki- wrote:Tyranids certainly can adapt their genetics that quickly.

They haven't really shown it very well against the Orks. If they can supposedly adapt that quickly, they aren't doing a very damn good job at it. Especially if they're as stupid about it as you described, and still haven't produced much out of the extremely versatile and powerful Ork genetics.

They haven't shown it well against Orks because the fluff just hasn't documented it against Orks.. The only war between them that is described in fluff is the Octarius war. But it has documented their adaptability, against Tau. Where is describes them adapting their entire force between attacks, in a matter of hours. There's no reason for the genetic adaptability to just stop working because they're fighting Orks.

If it does, please direct me to the fluff where is says Ork biomass inhibits their adaptability. Otherwise, I'll take information from multiple pieces of fluff, and arrive at the logical conclusion that Tyranids can adapt very, very quickly. They're not winning the Octarius war, but neither are the Orks. Tyranids don't win every war, but still, neither do Orks. They're both just fighting and getting stronger at about the same rate in that particular war.

-Loki- wrote:They haven't shown it well against Orks because the fluff just hasn't documented it against Orks..

So basically what you're saying is that Orks are so awesome that they can't adapt against them like they can against Tau?

Because it's not just the Orks in Octavius that the Tyranids have fought. They've consumed countless amounts of Ork DNA from across the galaxy when fighting Orks on less populated worlds, yet across the galaxy they're still unable to actually utilize Ork DNA to produce anything that is capable of utilizing the Ork strengths. Oh gee, a biovore. Useful, but they're just an artillery piece. That's not really what you know Orks for.

To each their own.

I always looked at it from this perspective - they consumed Orks, and the only useful thing they could find a use for that they couldn't already do better was having them stand there while a separate organism fired from its back.

Orks are a survivor race that basically already have conquered the galaxy and everyone else is just fighting over small portions of it compared to what the Orks already own Even the C'tan and their Necrontyr slaves, at the height of their power, could not destroy the Orks. If the Tyranids can't find something useful about such a powerful and durable race, then that does not say much good about their skill in utilizing DNA.

Melissia wrote:Even the C'tan and their Necrontyr slaves, at the height of their power, could not destroy the Orks.

Do you have a source or quote to back up that statement?

The Tyranid's use, or lack thereof, of Ork DNA means very little. The hivefleet -Loki- mentions is described as restructuring the assault organisms to have much thicker carapaces in order to resist Tau weaponry so the Tyranids have resilience down pat. Tyranids are also able to create organisms with great strength and which are almost unstoppable in combat, certainly some Tyranids organisms are much, much better than any ork in combat. They are also able to breed vast amounts of creatures at an incredible rate, much faster than orks can grow from spores. So what traits that Orks have are the Tyranids lacking exactly, afterall they're already good in combat, tough, reproduce quickly and easily, they even have their own version of Waaagh! energy, and just like orks the Tyranids contain all the necessary technological information they could ever possibly need, sharing it between hivefleets.

Orks and Tyranids share a lot in common, can we categorically say that the Tyranids had those traits before they encountered orks? No, it may well be that in the process of consuming Ork DNA the Tyranids did become very similar to them but more likely they already possessed those traits anyway so realisitcally Orks have very little to offer the Tyranids.

Melissia wrote:IE, constant warfare makes Orks stronger.

Orks dont get stronger when there DEAD.

And bugs can't adapt when they're dead.

But you know, far stronger enemies than Tyranids were trying to kill Orks for far longer than recorded history.

A dead bug can be dragged back to a digestion pool, broken down, sent back to a Dominatrix, and used to create a new bug. Tyranids can reuse their own biomatter. This is what rippers are for. They eat bodies, Tyranid and foe alike, go back to a digestion pool, get digested along with their biomatter they collected, and regrown. Tyranids have at least as much biomatter as they brough with them unless they lose.

In our current discussion about the Octarius war, this is one reason why the Tyranids are thriving in the war. They're not losing ground, so they're not losing biomatter. They're only gaining it, since they're also killing and digesting Orks, far quicker than Orks grow out of spores.

edit - but hey, speculation arguments get to a critical mass of boring. This one has reached it.

Blood Raven 5th Company wrote:

Melissia wrote:IE, constant warfare makes Orks stronger.

Orks dont get stronger when there DEAD.

Neither do individual 'nids.

Didn't you read the last post?

So?

A dead Ork releases a ton of spores that produces more Orks. And even if they don't die, more Orks still appear.

I'm probably a little late and off-kilter here but
That picture of looted golden throne, FTW
Orks can loot ANYTHING

Melissia wrote:So?

A dead Ork releases a ton of spores that produces more Orks. And even if they don't die, more Orks still appear.

But we have already bin through the fact that nids reproduce faster.

Even if the Orks don't "breed" as fast they have something better, the call of war. As the news of endless war speadsmore Orks will come. In the end it will mean the fighting just keeps going on and on, and that is a WIN for orks. Orks aren't looking to win, they are looking to fight. Total victory is a bad thing in the Orks book, it mean they now have to waste time looking for a good enemy.

alexwars1 wrote:

Blood Raven 5th Company wrote:If orks land on the planet (and it becomes infected by them) and the local marines kill them (renegade ravens) how long would it take them to re amass?

If an average Ork Waaagh! is defeated, but orks remain on the planet, it can take anywhere from a week to a decade for them to fully regroup.

ur piccture is... 'eye catching'

Blood Raven 5th Company wrote:Didn't you read the last post?

I did, yes. It's just that the same argument applies to the respective gains the two species get from fighting. Whereas Tyranids have to digest and re-engineer the absorbed DNA to make any use of it, Orks gain their advantages from victory somewhat quicker, and therefore a stalemate is reached; 'Nids may well reproduce quicker, but the Orks grow bigger faster, hence why the war in Octavius isn't really going anywhere.
Of course, when reinforcements reach that particular empire, them Nids are gonna take a beating.

Gestalt group conciousness versus ... gestalt group conciousness. Does anyone else see the parallel!

I can see this war going on for ever.

The fact that tyranids can adapt extreemly quickly is backed up by fluff, in the war against the tau that has been been mentioned, but iirc it was Hive Fleet Gorgon.

Basically Nids can reproduce quicker than orks, but the promise of endless war will draw more orks, which will balance things out. What i don't understand though is why the hive mind hasn't realised that he could send a few broods of pyrovores to burn ork corpses and the spores they produce, thereby largely reducing the chances of orks producing. Surely if i thought of it, the hive mind must?

Eldar Own wrote:I can see this war going on for ever.

The fact that tyranids can adapt extreemly quickly is backed up by fluff, in the war against the tau that has been been mentioned, but iirc it was Hive Fleet Gorgon.

Basically Nids can reproduce quicker than orks, but the promise of endless war will draw more orks, which will balance things out. What i don't understand though is why the hive mind hasn't realised that he could send a few broods of pyrovores to burn ork corpses and the spores they produce, thereby largely reducing the chances of orks producing. Surely if i thought of it, the hive mind must?

Maybe the hive mind is content to use this hive fleet to keep a lot of orks in a large area of space occupied whilst other tendril fleets make their move in the segmentum? As strategy on a grand scale and the expendability of individual fleets have all been hallmarks of major hive fleet actions before.

Lexx wrote:

Eldar Own wrote:I can see this war going on for ever.

The fact that tyranids can adapt extreemly quickly is backed up by fluff, in the war against the tau that has been been mentioned, but iirc it was Hive Fleet Gorgon.

Basically Nids can reproduce quicker than orks, but the promise of endless war will draw more orks, which will balance things out. What i don't understand though is why the hive mind hasn't realised that he could send a few broods of pyrovores to burn ork corpses and the spores they produce, thereby largely reducing the chances of orks producing. Surely if i thought of it, the hive mind must?

Maybe the hive mind is content to use this hive fleet to keep a lot of orks in a large area of space occupied whilst other tendril fleets make their move in the segmentum? As strategy on a grand scale and the expendability of individual fleets have all been hallmarks of major hive fleet actions before.

Good point. Though, we have been having a big argument about who would win in numbers, so would the hive mind sacrifice a large part of his force, and potentially give the orks an advantage?

If the hive mind doesn't sense that it is losing, why give up that endless supply of biomatter? Hive Fleet Gorgon is at an endless buffet. They can recycle their own troops, and use dead Orks as well. While more Orks also turn up to fight, and the war keeps going, they Hive Fleet is growing as well. Giving up that food source would be stupid. All they really need is a carpet of rippers going over the no mans lands of the battlefields, grabbing any Orks that pop up, between battles.

You know, being on the receiving end of a Waagh! is no joke, even for the 'nids. If, as I theorised, more Orks do come, the pressure will build on the nids to win faster, before more greenskins show up and tip the balance completely. This could very likely lead to the defeat of the splinter fleet.

That's true - but being on the receiving end of a hive fleet invasion is no joke either. As long as the Tyranids don't start losing, all those extra Orks are just providing fuel to increase the size of the Hive Fleet. Even if they don't need to make more Tyranids, they can store that biomass for later. It becomes an eternal cycle of 'more Orks turn up, the Hive Fleet gets more biomass, make more Tyranids, more Orks show up...' until something comes to break that deadlock.

Well, currently, that's what we have here - a big ol' deadlock.
At least on that we agree!

The way I see it, the only way the orks can break the stalemate, if they infact even want to, is if their numbers increase at a steady rate. All their reinforcements are doing now is allowing the 'nids to have a stable rate of biomass. The 'nids have no reason to change this. Right now the orks have a place to fight, and the 'nids have a place that gives them free biomass. It's win-win for both. Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on how you look at it, the 'nids or the only ones that can win this in the end. They will, at some point, have enough biomass, to produce unending numbers. It would be in every other races best interest, for this not to happen. Maybe execpt for the orks, that is.

The Orks really don't seem to be having the best of it in the Octarius war anyway, the last sentence discussing it in Codex Tyranids ends: '...the Tyranids were not only surviving the Octarius war, they were thriving in it.'

Gogsnik wrote:The Orks really don't seem to be having the best of it in the Octarius war anyway, the last sentence discussing it in Codex Tyranids ends: '...the Tyranids were not only surviving the Octarius war, they were thriving in it.'

They have to say that for Tyranids, for Ork its just assumed.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote: as I theorised, more Orks do come

Not if they dont know its going on. Well all orks on the planet will come however no orks from other planets will come.

Orks always seem to know where a good fight is happening. More will turn up from outside the system, most definitely.

Blood Raven 5th Company wrote:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote: as I theorised, more Orks do come

Not if they dont know its going on. Well all orks on the planet will come however no orks from other planets will come.

And what makes you say this with certainty? Orks from outside areas of a war have come along after hearing there was a big scrap to be had. Just look at Armageddon..

And how do they know where the fight is? if it has anything to do with the warp count it out.

Blood Raven 5th Company wrote:And how do they know where the fight is? if it has anything to do with the warp count it out.

Ork's actually talk to each other you know? If there's a huge fight to be had they go to find more Orks to take part. Remember they are capable of warp travel.

Yes but how(and why) would they tell one another if their already fighting the enemy.

Warlords can send for more boyz. They usually have more than just one tribe under their command. And I'm guessing that all the orks in that area cant all be on one planet as Octarius is described as an ork empire. Plus not every single ork will be in the thick of the fighting. You'll have specialists making more wargear for fresh troops and reinforcements coming in from other parts of the ork empire. Plus some orks apparently in bigger tribes actually tend to farming the spores/mould that grows more boys. making it less based on chance and provides a much larger growth of new boyz.If anything a constant battle with a Hive splinter fleet also gives Orks a unity of purpose as they'll be too busy fighting the tyranids to bicker amongst themselves.

Edit: Having checked the planetstrike rulebook. It has a entry saying that the war basically has escalated to the entirety of the Octarius sector ( sectors encompassing areas holding hundreds if not many more worlds ). With Eldar, space marines and Imperial forces all getting mixed up in it. Not just the nids.

According to Codex Tyranids the start of the war began with every ork vessel within a dozen light years taking part but they were there ready and waiting. With the Shadow in the Warp in full effect it would be incredibly difficult to communicate with other systems unless a ship could make it through to pass word directly.

As for Ork unity the Tyranids very cleverly lured the warboss into an ambush and killed him, fracturing the ork defense and causing the various rival bosses fighting each other even in the face of the Tyranid onslaught.

With Eldar, space marines and Imperial forces all getting mixed up in it. Not just the nids.

Which page is that on?

I wonder how long it'll be before the Imperium opts for Exterminatus and blows large proportions of the two races into next tuesday.

Blood Raven 5th Company wrote:Yes but how(and why) would they tell one another if their already fighting the enemy.

Because a big fight is like a religious gathering for Orks. All it would take is for one to get hold of another and go "Oi, Zogdeg, I 'erd there was a proper big scrap wif them genesneakers and bugs and whatnot" and before you know it, more Orks end up heading to the fight.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eldar Own wrote:I wonder how long it'll be before the Imperium opts for Exterminatus and blows large proportions of the two races into next tuesday.

Probably never, given the Imperium likes to take over the planets it conquers. Kinda hard to live on a lifeless rock.

Gogsnik wrote:According to Codex Tyranids the start of the war began with every ork vessel within a dozen light years taking part but they were there ready and waiting. With the Shadow in the Warp in full effect it would be incredibly difficult to communicate with other systems unless a ship could make it through to pass word directly.

As for Ork unity the Tyranids very cleverly lured the warboss into an ambush and killed him, fracturing the ork defense and causing the various rival bosses fighting each other even in the face of the Tyranid onslaught.

That's are good points.

Gogsnik wrote:

With Eldar, space marines and Imperial forces all getting mixed up in it. Not just the nids.

Which page is that on?

He might be getting confused by the fact that Inquisitor Kryptman started the war between them by luring the Tyranids to the Ork empire.

Oh gak I mixed up two sources. The latter about the Eldar and imperial forces getting involved with the Octarius war is on page 49 of codex space marines. At the end of their timeline page.

So it is. It might just be a typo but that timeline in Codex Space Marines says Octavius, not Octarius.

Oh, GW and it's typos.
We found one once in the Cities of Death book that said "Every man is a but spark in the darkness" - how we laughed.

Well, the 4th edition Tyranid codex called it Octavius as well. The 5th edition codex calls it the Octarius system, but the main planet is Octaria. I blame Robin Cruddace.

Oh noes. I feel if we tug at this thread too much we could bring the entirety of the 40k setting down!

Quick! Pretend we never found this out!

Lets ransom it... our conditions will be to lower the cost of WH40K every where.

I had a look at this thread and Dakka broke for me. So ill just back away slowly.
I did read somewhere that the governor of the system was called Otto and he had special mechanicum implants.

wow, really...thats how they reproduce? Like a fungus or bacteria? Talk about the all time funky, hard to believe fluff. I never played orks, so dont know much about them....but I always pictured women orks and little baby orks, similar to shreks kids!

-- Taking personal note: do not play orks, because their fluff is completely laughable

Well, I'm afraid it's no more laughable than the Nids or even the Space marines, but whatever, you're entitled to your opinion.

Blood Raven 5th Company wrote:

Melissia wrote:So?

A dead Ork releases a ton of spores that produces more Orks. And even if they don't die, more Orks still appear.

But we have already bin through the fact that nids reproduce faster.

Not really.

Take a dozen gaunts. THey won't be able to breed at all. They don't even have reproductive organs. Hell, they don't even have anything more than the utmost rudimentary digestive system.

Take a dozen Orks. A few years later that planet's completely infested and if there's no serious opposition it's ready to move on to the next one.

Now, take a hive fleet. It has to devour an entire world to reproduce, including defeating all of its defenders.

Take an Ork WAAAGH!. All it has to do is land, and it's already spreading spores and producing more Orks at a constant and exponentially increasing rate. Every single Ork that lands, or is born, constantly releases spores. Every single Ork that dies constantly produces a much larger number of spores.

The Ork reproductive system is far more efficient.

Hm, I didn't think of that. How many Tyranid species are actually able to breed? Anyone?

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Hm, I didn't think of that. How many Tyranid species are actually able to breed? Anyone?

One: Norn Queens.

I almost suggested the Tervigon and the Harridan, but then I recalled they "transported" the creatures they carry as opposed to actually spawning them.

Meanwhile, every single Ork-- and the grots, and the snotlings, and the squigs, and hell even the fungus they eat-- reproduces.

Once the Orkish reproductive system is going full force, the Tyranid system is woefully inefficient.

Tyranids many different types of organism, including flora and microscopic organisms. If an ork died, their spores would be consumed by the tyranids, meaning no more orks.

Okay, but the consumption phase almost invariably occurs once the main population of resistance is destroyed. With Orks, this is very hard to do in the length of time needed to be able to consume the spores, given that the living orks will carry on fighting, thus delaying the Nids.

Mr Nobody wrote:Tyranids many different types of organism, including flora and microscopic organisms. If an ork died, their spores would be consumed by the tyranids, meaning no more orks.

They have to actually catch the spores before they implanted themselves into the ground, and anywhere wind is blowing this is a very difficult thing indeed.

Spores are EXTREMELY durable, indeed, they're pretty much nature's most durable construction aside from archaea.

Melissia wrote:
Spores are EXTREMELY durable, indeed, they're pretty much nature's most durable construction aside from archaea.

So true, hell within 1-2 hours after come out of the oven a pizza has already started grown spore between the crust and cheese. Spore's that would break teeth, if they weren't microscopic.

Melissia wrote:Not really.

Take a dozen gaunts. THey won't be able to breed at all. They don't even have reproductive organs. Hell, they don't even have anything more than the utmost rudimentary digestive system.

Take a dozen Orks. A few years later that planet's completely infested and if there's no serious opposition it's ready to move on to the next one.

Now, take a hive fleet. It has to devour an entire world to reproduce, including defeating all of its defenders.

Take an Ork WAAAGH!. All it has to do is land, and it's already spreading spores and producing more Orks at a constant and exponentially increasing rate. Every single Ork that lands, or is born, constantly releases spores. Every single Ork that dies constantly produces a much larger number of spores.

The Ork reproductive system is far more efficient.

Actually, in Imperial Armour 9, it mentions Hormagaunts breeding by themselves. pretty sure there's mention in Codex Tyranids about the remnants of Hive Fleet Behemoth breeding in the Macragge polar caps as well.

Melissia wrote:

Mr Nobody wrote:Tyranids many different types of organism, including flora and microscopic organisms. If an ork died, their spores would be consumed by the tyranids, meaning no more orks.

They have to actually catch the spores before they implanted themselves into the ground, and anywhere wind is blowing this is a very difficult thing indeed.

Spores are EXTREMELY durable, indeed, they're pretty much nature's most durable construction aside from archaea.

If the majority of the Ork population is supressed and the planet ends up being consumed, I doubt those Ork spores are going to do much on a planet lacking an atmosphere.

Orks can survive in space.

They even fly fighta-bommas out in space.

Melissia wrote:Take a dozen gaunts... Take a dozen Orks...

The liklihood of there only being a few gaunts is very remote. However, let us assume that a Tyranid fleet was virtually wiped out, leaving only a few Tyranids on the target world. This kind of scenario is exactly what happened to the Ghorala swarm whilst attacking orks. The Tyranids were completely outnumbered but switched tactics, using hit and run raids to kill as many orks as they could before retreating, heading back to secreted digestion pools slowly increasing their numbers. When they finally defeated the orks they were able to produce new hive ships.

Now, take a hive fleet. It has to devour an entire world to reproduce, including defeating all of its defenders.

Nonsense. There are plenty of examples in Codex Tyranids of the Tyranid forces being replaced between each assault, hundreds of creatures adapted to better defeat the enemy within hours. Then you have genestealers which can reproduce, rippers that come with pre-fertilised egg sacs, the dominatrix which can spew out any kind of creature even as it's fighting and of course you have the brood nests, womb like constructions beneath the ground which churn out Tyranids by the score.

Melissia wrote:Orks can survive in space.

They even fly fighta-bommas out in space.

Fair enough. Though I think you need to grab the recent Tyranid codex before you keep going on about the Tyranids weakness being their adaptive nature being slow and they need to consume entire worlds to reproduce. The new Codex completely refutes that. Quite a few times.

And yet, there's still nothing that actually utilizes the incredibly useful Orkoid genetic code-- which has produced a race that not only survived the Enslaver plague but thrived-- aside from the friggin' biovore. I call that really fething slow.

Maybe they can adjust the chemical makeup of their creatures' carapace to make it slightly more durable to the firepower of the Tau, but when it comes to actually making something new they don't seem to be able to do much with the most common genetic code in the galaxy. Minor adjustments such as mentioned before are something even the Mechanicus can do.

I reiterate my points from earlier, anything Orks can do the Tyranids can already do.

Also, loads of species survived the Enslavers.

Melissia wrote:And yet, there's still nothing that actually utilizes the incredibly useful Orkoid genetic code-- which has produced a race that not only survived the Enslaver plague but thrived-- aside from the friggin' biovore. I call that really fething slow.

I mentioned this a page back. That biovore? Not Ork genetics. That zoanthrope? Not Eldar genetics. That Tyrant Guard? Not space marine genetics. They wrote all of that fluff out. All these creatures have been around since the initial invasion of the galaxy. They don't adapt this galaxies life forms into new creatures. They just think of what creatures they want, and use the biomass they take to make them. New fluff - buy the new codex before arguing since you apparently only know old fluff.

-Loki- wrote:

Melissia wrote:And yet, there's still nothing that actually utilizes the incredibly useful Orkoid genetic code-- which has produced a race that not only survived the Enslaver plague but thrived-- aside from the friggin' biovore. I call that really fething slow.

I mentioned this a page back. That biovore? Not Ork genetics. That zoanthrope? Not Eldar genetics. That Tyrant Guard? Not space marine genetics. They wrote all of that fluff out. All these creatures have been around since the initial invasion of the galaxy. They don't adapt this galaxies life forms into new creatures. They just think of what creatures they want, and use the biomass they take to make them. New fluff - buy the new codex before arguing since you apparently only know old fluff.

So your saying fluff wise Tyranid suck now. The coolest part was always eating there enemy and then using there own strenght aganist them.

Noir wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

Melissia wrote:And yet, there's still nothing that actually utilizes the incredibly useful Orkoid genetic code-- which has produced a race that not only survived the Enslaver plague but thrived-- aside from the friggin' biovore. I call that really fething slow.

I mentioned this a page back. That biovore? Not Ork genetics. That zoanthrope? Not Eldar genetics. That Tyrant Guard? Not space marine genetics. They wrote all of that fluff out. All these creatures have been around since the initial invasion of the galaxy. They don't adapt this galaxies life forms into new creatures. They just think of what creatures they want, and use the biomass they take to make them. New fluff - buy the new codex before arguing since you apparently only know old fluff.

So your saying fluff wise Tyranid suck now. The coolest part was always eating there enemy and then using there own strenght aganist them.

Well, this brings them closer to their original 2nd edition incarnation. They still eat things, and use the biomass to breed more Tyranids. They just don't repurpose DNA from this galaxy to make creatures. Honestly, I find it a better idea - why use DNA from the galaxy you are invading to come up with things to use to fight them? Use the experience from fighting them to figure out what to use to fight them.

So there a static race that can adapt, but never evolve past it's preset maxium abilities. Not really that all that great.

So basically they're like Orks, only it's biology alone rather than both biology and technology

Who needs technology when their biology provides the technology? Why build a gun when you can simply have a nest breed some? Why make ammo, when you can just have a hive breed it?

Noir wrote:So there a static race that can adapt, but never evolve past it's preset maxium abilities. Not really that all that great.

That more accurately describes the Orks, a race that has not progressed in millions of years. The Tyranids have no preset maximum ability and their entire raison d'être is incredibly swift evolution in order for the collective Tyranid species to continue and thrive.

Melissia wrote:So basically they're like Orks, only it's biology alone rather than both biology and technology

They have the qualities that Orks possess plus a multitude more, the fact that Orks use metal tools rather than organic ones is not really the issue.

Gogsnik wrote:They have the qualities that Orks possess plus a multitude more, the fact that Orks use metal tools rather than organic ones is not really the issue.

Not really.

Orks get bigger, stronger, and smarter as wars wage on. Tyranids evolve as wars rage on. Same basic thing.

Orks also develop new tools and weapons as time goes on. Tyranids... apparently don't in the newest fluff, not even biological weapons (Because they weren't developed from the DNA of this galaxy's creatures, so they haven't apparently created created anything new).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

-Loki- wrote:Who needs technology when their biology provides the technology? Why build a gun when you can simply have a nest breed some? Why make ammo, when you can just have a hive breed it?

Because metal has advantages over non-metals.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gogsnik wrote:That more accurately describes the Orks, a race that has not progressed in millions of years.

Yes they have, technologically they're one of the most advanced races in the galaxy.

Melissia wrote:Tyranids... apparently don't in the newest fluff, not even biological weapons (Because they weren't developed from the DNA of this galaxy's creatures, so they haven't apparently created created anything new).

I don't know why you have this fixation with the Tyranids having to evolve using their prey's DNA but they have produced many variants of creature (including weapons) since invading the galaxy. Realisitically though, what exactly would an ancient race of aliens need extra to kill and Ork, or an Eldar or a Human beyond a basic set of weapons and horde of creatures.

Because metal has advantages over non-metals.

Tyranids can produce metal, they even have hive ships with carapace made from rock.

Yes they have, technologically they're one of the most advanced races in the galaxy.

Technological advancement has nothing to do with Orks as living beings. The Ork species has barely if at all evolved over a long period of time and arguably a lot of their advanced technology has been canibalised from the technology produced by other races.

Melissia wrote:Orks also develop new tools and weapons as time goes on. Tyranids... apparently don't in the newest fluff, not even biological weapons (Because they weren't developed from the DNA of this galaxy's creatures, so they haven't apparently created created anything new).

Again, buy the codex and read the fluff. They're hardly static. They do grow new creatures when they need them. Nice bit of fluff talks about hive Fleet Naga growing bio titan bigger than a Warhound Titan, shaped like a snake, that managed to take down a whole Titan Legion. Just none of it is derived from genetics from this galaxy - it's all stuff they've created themselves.

Melissia wrote:Because metal has advantages over non-metals.

Apparently not in 40k. Those swords made of bone are far superior to even an ancient, superbly crafted power sword. And that sword made of bone was just grown right before the battle, and it on potentially every Tyranid Warrior.

-Loki- wrote:

Melissia wrote:Orks also develop new tools and weapons as time goes on. Tyranids... apparently don't in the newest fluff, not even biological weapons (Because they weren't developed from the DNA of this galaxy's creatures, so they haven't apparently created created anything new).

Again, buy the codex and read the fluff. They're hardly static. They do grow new creatures when they need them. Nice bit of fluff talks about hive Fleet Naga growing bio titan bigger than a Warhound Titan, shaped like a snake, that managed to take down a whole Titan Legion. Just none of it is derived from genetics from this galaxy - it's all stuff they've created themselves.

Yeah taking down an entire Titan legion has a few problems.
1) Most Titan legions never fight together on 1 planet and even the ones that do only do it on big occasions.
2)Taking down an entire Titan legion is nothing in the fluff, because Titans suffer from the Worf Effect.
3)That must have been a sucky Titan legion especially because a Warhound isn't all that big compared to Warlords or Reavers.

Rule of cool applies.

Also - a full on hive fleet invasion is typically considered a pretty big deal.

IF rule of cool applies, then of course Tyranids are going to lose, cause they ain't as cool

Not everyone can be a soccer hooligan in spaaaaaaaaaace.

Orks aren't soccer hooligans.

After all, Orks have intelligence.

Orcs are asexual reproducing spores and it takes everything up to and including burning and probably salting the planet if not just blowing it up from space if the infestation is to much.

Rule of Cool........ Goff Rockers, Orks win.

Hormgaunts are one of the only other tyranids able to reproduce. At least once it seems. In the tyranid codex entry it mentions they lay eggs when they make planet-fall. These mature fast and become a second wave to replace their parents dying in the main attacks. Not sure if its just a one use trick or if those offspring can also do it though.

Gogsnik wrote:

Noir wrote:So there a static race that can adapt, but never evolve past it's preset maxium abilities. Not really that all that great.

That more accurately describes the Orks, a race that has not progressed in millions of years. The Tyranids have no preset maximum ability and their entire raison d'être is incredibly swift evolution in order for the collective Tyranid species to continue and thrive.

I'm afraid I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. The orks aren't like the Imperium; they are constantly inventing new and dangerous stuff to use on their enemies. Constantly. Orks didn't have gargants until they encountered an Imperial Titan, so their response to it was to build one of their own, only bigger and with more guns. The Deffkopta, too, is a recent orkish invention, as is the Shokk Attack Gun. The orks developed teleportation devices after the Second War for Armageddon, so as to launch lightning assaults on entrenched foes, and what they don't outright invent they just steal from other races. Just ask the T'au (well, you know what I mean) whose weapons have often been looted and used against them, with some suitable "addishuns" for even more firepower.
Orks, a static race? Not on your life.

Lexx wrote:Hormgaunts are one of the only other tyranids able to reproduce. At least once it seems. In the tyranid codex entry it mentions they lay eggs when they make planet-fall. These mature fast and become a second wave to replace their parents dying in the main attacks. Not sure if its just a one use trick or if those offspring can also do it though.

What about Genestealers then.

Genestealers are probably closer to a viral infection than reproducing in the normal method.

Though oddly enough it seems like Orks who are infected still produce normal Orks when they're killed, not gene-stealer descendants.... after all, Orks put down "gene-sneaker" rebellions with remarkable ease.

Blood Raven 5th Company wrote:

Lexx wrote:Hormgaunts are one of the only other tyranids able to reproduce. At least once it seems. In the tyranid codex entry it mentions they lay eggs when they make planet-fall. These mature fast and become a second wave to replace their parents dying in the main attacks. Not sure if its just a one use trick or if those offspring can also do it though.

What about Genestealers then.

Heyyyy...... forgot about them.
Well, as Genestealers are meant to live semi-autonomously, so I'd say it made sense for them to be able to breed.

They are usually the initial wave to weaken defences and start rebellion.

Blood Raven 5th Company wrote:

Lexx wrote:Hormgaunts are one of the only other tyranids able to reproduce. At least once it seems. In the tyranid codex entry it mentions they lay eggs when they make planet-fall. These mature fast and become a second wave to replace their parents dying in the main attacks. Not sure if its just a one use trick or if those offspring can also do it though.

What about Genestealers then.

I think i would agree with Melissia its more of a parasitical relationship than breeding. Interesting on the infected orks spores not being affected though.

Yes but then in the 5th generation the sentient looking genestealers give birth to full genestealers.

Blood Raven 5th Company wrote:Yes but then in the 5th generation the sentient looking genestealers give birth to full genestealers.

This also confuses me. As how would Ork hybrids do this since theyre effectively genderless.

Lexx wrote:

Blood Raven 5th Company wrote:Yes but then in the 5th generation the sentient looking genestealers give birth to full genestealers.

This also confuses me. As how would Ork hybrids do this since theyre effectively genderless.

Uhhhhhh...
MAGIC!

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:

Lexx wrote:

Blood Raven 5th Company wrote:Yes but then in the 5th generation the sentient looking genestealers give birth to full genestealers.

This also confuses me. As how would Ork hybrids do this since theyre effectively genderless.

Uhhhhhh...
MAGIC!

"Orks. How do they work!"

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:

Lexx wrote:

Blood Raven 5th Company wrote:Yes but then in the 5th generation the sentient looking genestealers give birth to full genestealers.

This also confuses me. As how would Ork hybrids do this since theyre effectively genderless.

Uhhhhhh...
MAGIC!

That's precisely why I blieve that Orks don't really produce full genestealer infestations.

THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS ORKS.










Wait, there actually isn't. Oh well, that puts paid to that particular meme...

Lexx wrote:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:

Lexx wrote:

Blood Raven 5th Company wrote:Yes but then in the 5th generation the sentient looking genestealers give birth to full genestealers.

This also confuses me. As how would Ork hybrids do this since theyre effectively genderless.

Uhhhhhh...
MAGIC!

"Orks. How do they work!"

Hey thats what we have been trying to figure out
Still i think genestealer is more of a mutation so
Ork drops spore.
Spore grows.
Spore opens.
Genestealer pops out.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:I'm afraid I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. The orks aren't like the Imperium; they are constantly inventing new and dangerous stuff to use on their enemies. Constantly. Orks didn't have gargants until they encountered an Imperial Titan, so their response to it was to build one of their own, only bigger and with more guns. The Deffkopta, too, is a recent orkish invention, as is the Shokk Attack Gun. The orks developed teleportation devices after the Second War for Armageddon, so as to launch lightning assaults on entrenched foes, and what they don't outright invent they just steal from other races. Just ask the T'au (well, you know what I mean) whose weapons have often been looted and used against them, with some suitable "addishuns" for even more firepower.
Orks, a static race? Not on your life.

Read back to one of my earlier posts. The orks as a species have not evolved in millions of years, as a species they are static. Okay, now that's out of the way again.

As far as we know, the Brain Boyz were the ones who invented all of the amazing technology, but, realising they were dieing out, put the knowledge of how to build some of that advanced technology into the Orks, even then only Meks and even then, not all Meks have the ability to reproduce the truly advanced technology that must be buried in their minds somewhere.

On the other hand there is the technology that Orks have produced after encountering other races. Again this isn't really invention is it. Orks saw a Titan, reckoned it was awesome and copied it. Exactly how many millions of years had Orks been around before they encountered their first Titan, that's a long time without even one Ork, not even once imagining the possibility of a Gargant. The same goes for most, maybe even all the other technology Orks utilise, they steal or copy technology invented by other races but at the least they have the inbuilt, instinctual knowledge of how to build a lot of technology that the Brain Boyz invented. Like you say, they have recent 'inventions', technology they have only started to use in the last few thousands of years so what were they doing for all the rest of the time they existed?

I'll go back to my earlier point, Orks don't progress. As an organism they are the same, as a culture they are the same. Certainly they adopt certain technologies developed by other races if it means Orks can go faster or kill better but can that truly be called progress, that's just Orks doing what Orks were bred to do and have been doing since they were created. The Orks that exist in the 41st Millennium are the same as the Orks that have ever existed. Compare them to the Tau; six thousand years ago they were a primitive race, barely more advanced than hunter-gatherers and now they are a space-faring people, with a philosphy and an ideaology, developing and inventing new technologies and incorporating other races into their Empire. Orks a million years ago were doing the sme as Orks are doing in the 41st Millennium, sacking world for plunder and for a laugh, holding some world to ransom but usually burning a city here or there just for the lulz and the boss keeps a few slaves to make himself look more important but basically they are the same, they have gone backwards like a lot of human world (although the Snakebites might wish they would) and they haven't really gone forwards either.

In a way that's the tragedy of the Orks, the actual culture they were created to protect, the true thinkers and inventers don't exist any more, what you have is a Frankenstein's Monster of a race, still rampaging around according to the preset commands they were bred with even though the master is long, long dead. It's almost futile but then the endeavours of the 40K races are futile, that's the point I suppose.

Oh, I see. Okay.
Well, arguably, Orks have had no need as a species to evolve then. Evolution, despite what the 'Nids might tell you, isn't a pick-and-choose process as such; really, it's heavily reliant on the chance that something in an organism's biology might be useful. In this sense, orks have reached the same stage of evolution that sharks have, in a way; both species have changed very little over the millennia from their basic design because there's no real need to. This is especially pronounced in orks, as their biology is so tailor-made towards fighting and surviving that there's no real evolutionary impetus for it to change.

Also, some good points on technology, but even so, it cannot be argued that orks are not constantly inventing things. In rules terms it's hard to show them all, as after all there's only so many pages in a codex, so they get lumped into generic categories. Still, the point remains that things like Shokk Attack Guns are a unique weapon to the ork race (no other race I know of uses this sort of weapon) and the deffkopta, in theory, covers everything from the crude helicopters of the codex to experimental skimmers (that, admittedly, aren't quite as efficient or even safe as those of other races) the Big Meks have built in their spare time.
I'll admit, they aren't the most inventive race in the galaxy, but at the same time, they aren't just another Imperium.

Actually they pretty much ARE the most inventive race in the galaxy.

They just don't have any use for inventions outside of those used for warfare.

Streamlined inventiveness, then? Well, either way, my point still stands. Orks invent stuff constantly, and they are so well adapted to their chosen lifestyles that evolution isn't really necessary.

It's better to say that they just don't give a damn about anything other than war. So they don't really bother for such silly things like safety, comfort, convenience.

Heck, fighta-bommas often don't even have brakes to assist with deceleration, amongst other things we'd normally view as "Standard Equipment". But Ork fighta-bommas still put up a good fight against Imperial aerospace assets.

Well, even crude things like Rokks are feared by the people having to engage them, as despite that crudity they are still excellently adapted for the theatre of war. In many ways, orks are the undisputed masters of wartime construction and mechanics.

Orks reproduce via Fungus spores,wich fall from them when they die,wich grow in almost every type of enviroment,thus is the reason why they are basically everywhere! Which is the reason why they are so resileint to physical damage,b/c they have so much in common w/ fungus and why they are so green b/c they have so much fungai in there blood.

Here is a question (it may have already been answered and i just didn't see):

When greenskins "hatch" or break from there pods at birth, are they full grown orks/grots/snotlings/ect. or are they "Children" and then grow to what we see?

I recall a diagram in an old Codex that showed a fully grown Ork in a kind of sack underground. Pretty sure they grow decently fast and emerge fully grown, with basic knowledge of how to operate weapons and machinery embedded in their memory.

And a basic knowledge of war, combat, and battle.

Orks are born with tactical knowledge and skill that Marines have to strive for centuries to obtain.


Orks hatch as a "yoof", who is slightly smaller than a normal Boy, who is smaller than a Scarboy, who is smaller than a Nob, who is smaller than a Warboss, who is smaller than a Warlord.

Interesting... and ork "yoof"s grow into a predetermined greenskin (grot/boy/nob/ect)?

A "yoof" is merely a statement of size, as they're smaller than the average Boy of their particular region. Basically if they survive their first fight they're probably a regular Boy by then.

A Yoof can become a regular Boy, or any of the Oddboyz. A Nob, however, is most assuredly a veteran, as they've been in tons of fights and have thus grown to a massive size.

Grots are born as grots and die as grots. They're an entirely different subspecies of orkoid, whereas "Yoof" is just an ORk translation for "Youth" (they have problems with th and h sounds becaues off their biology).

Melissia wrote:Orks are born with tactical knowledge and skill that Marines have to strive for centuries to obtain.

You really shouldn't exaggerate like that.


Ork yoofs are roughly equivilant (in ork terms) to a human adolescent; orks basically emerge as teenagers. Whilst they do not possess the skills instantly it only takes a short time for a yoof to develop the facility for speech and an understanding of fairly complex mechanics and automotive processes.

Oddboyz are 'born' oddboyz, but it isn't until they get older that the latent knowledge they contain slowly starts to come to the fore.

Gogsnik wrote:You really shouldn't exaggerate like that.

I'm not.

Orks are born with an instinctive understanding of battlefield tactics. The most direct quote I can think of for this is, surprisingly enough, the Ciaphas Cain series (Caves of Ice).

Orks are also BORN with skill equivalent to WS4.

You'd think they would have caught Kayvan Shrike if that was the case...

Melissia wrote:The most direct quote I can think of for this is, surprisingly enough, the Ciaphas Cain series (Caves of Ice).

Hardly centuries worth of Astartes tactical skill though is it. Besides, I can give you a quote from an actual source book; 'Even with the genetically engineered Adeptus Astartes, it takes almost ten years of intensive therapy and physical alteration to perfect what an Ork knows instinctively!'

With some logical extrapolation, based on the fact that an ork yoof is said to be equivalent to a human adolescent and given that the Astartes recruit from around ten years old or younger, ten years for the recruit places them in their late teens so where a human has to grow up (and be modifed) an ork is 'born' fully grown and already modified. That still makes orks very impressive.

Orks are also BORN with skill equivalent to WS4.

Firstly, the stats from the game aren't really that helpful in determining the in-universe qualities of a given warrior et cetera. Secondly, no they aren't, yoofs start out with a WS of 2.


EDIT: spelling.

-Loki- wrote:You'd think they would have caught Kayvan Shrike if that was the case...

You mean the Raven Guard guy who's had centuries to perfect his tactics? They're not gods, you know!
Besides, you kind of have to have that story attached to a hero, as it doesn't sound anywhere near as impressive as "Kayvan Shrike did well for three months and was then caught and strung up by the greenskins, Emperor rest him."


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Melissia wrote: "Yoof" is just an ORk translation for "Youth" (they have problems with th and h sounds becaues off their biology).

Meaning their lips don't work like ours.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:

-Loki- wrote:You'd think they would have caught Kayvan Shrike if that was the case...

You mean the Raven Guard guy who's had centuries to perfect his tactics? They're not gods, you know!
Besides, you kind of have to have that story attached to a hero, as it doesn't sound anywhere near as impressive as "Kayvan Shrike did well for three months and was then caught and strung up by the greenskins, Emperor rest him."

I know. But I mean, a single squad of Space Marines on a planet infested with supposedly tactical equivalents... Orks should have caught them pretty quickly.

-Loki- wrote:I know. But I mean, a single squad of Space Marines on a planet infested with supposedly tactical equivalents... Orks should have caught them pretty quickly.

More pertinently, if Orks were born with the tactical knowledge and skill that Marines have to strive for centuries to obtain then what the hell have the Orks been doing for the last sixty million years? If the Orks were literally that good they would have conquered the entire galaxy long, long ago.

Gogsnik wrote:

-Loki- wrote:I know. But I mean, a single squad of Space Marines on a planet infested with supposedly tactical equivalents... Orks should have caught them pretty quickly.

More pertinently, if Orks were born with the tactical knowledge and skill that Marines have to strive for centuries to obtain then what the hell have the Orks been doing for the last sixty million years? If the Orks were literally that good they would have conquered the entire galaxy long, long ago.

Here is my thought on this: Orks are born to fight, they know battle tactics from their ginetic coding, most just choose not to use them? Though Blood axes have used tactics in fights. Also (this is all speculation from what ive read so far in this forum) Gork and Mork are the strongest gods out there right? And only reason they keep other gods alive is for entertainment? So wouldn't that mean that they would "help" both sides of wars? If the Orks conquere the galaxy, then that would be the end to Gork and Morks fun? So they would do anything they had do to keep fights going? Even helping the enemy?

Orks certainly believe that their gods are the most powerful, the truth of that is anyone's guess.

As for the tactical acumen of orks, certainly they come pre-equipped with the sort of knowledge that it would take many years for a human to be taught but they are not as all powerful as some posters might like to paint.

That is the advantage of orks though; they are bred easily and whilst growing below ground are almost impossible to spot allowing them to reach near maturity without difficulty and when they do emerge they do so with a working knowledge of machines (basically weaponry) and the kind of low cunning you need in a fight.

What it all boils down to, is that what would take a human twenty or thirty years to achieve (starting from birth), with intensive training and education an ork has within a few weeks of the spore landing in the right spot and the yoof becoming a boy.

WarrKing wrote:

Gogsnik wrote:

-Loki- wrote:I know. But I mean, a single squad of Space Marines on a planet infested with supposedly tactical equivalents... Orks should have caught them pretty quickly.

More pertinently, if Orks were born with the tactical knowledge and skill that Marines have to strive for centuries to obtain then what the hell have the Orks been doing for the last sixty million years? If the Orks were literally that good they would have conquered the entire galaxy long, long ago.

Here is my thought on this: Orks are born to fight, they know battle tactics from their ginetic coding, most just choose not to use them? Though Blood axes have used tactics in fights. Also (this is all speculation from what ive read so far in this forum) Gork and Mork are the strongest gods out there right? And only reason they keep other gods alive is for entertainment? So wouldn't that mean that they would "help" both sides of wars? If the Orks conquere the galaxy, then that would be the end to Gork and Morks fun? So they would do anything they had do to keep fights going? Even helping the enemy?

There's a difference between combat knowledge and strategic knowledge. I'm guessing Orks are born with the former. Very few Ork warlords in fluff have displayed the latter.

What have Orks been doing all these years?

Well the answer is obvious. Orks have dominated the galaxy, conquering the majority of known planets and populating hte galaxy with their race to the point where they're the most populous sentient race.

... duh?

Gogsnik wrote:it takes almost ten years of intensive therapy and physical alteration to perfect what an Ork knows instinctively!'

Cite the source for this quote. Simply saying "an official source" isn't helpful, as there's quite a few of them.

edit: In academia, using someone else's words without citation is called plagiarism So, being a college student, I place a very high emphasis on citing sources when I make direct quotes.


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-Loki- wrote:There's a difference between combat knowledge and strategic knowledge. I'm guessing Orks are born with the former. Very few Ork warlords in fluff have displayed the latter.

Oh, any Ork big enough to be called a Warlord has shown strategic knowledge.

But warbosses don't necessarily have it. Most warbosses will probably never reach the position of warlord.

Melissia wrote:

Gogsnik wrote:it takes almost ten years of intensive therapy and physical alteration to perfect what an Ork knows instinctively!'

Cite the source for this quote. Simply saying "an official source" isn't helpful, as there's quite a few of them.

edit: In academia, using someone else's words without citation is called plagiarism So, being a college student, I place a very high emphasis on citing sources when I make direct quotes.

Okay, this one is definitely from the Lukas Anzion papers in the former ork codex. I'm sure of it.

Melissia wrote:... duh?

Orks are found all over the place but they have hardly conquered the majority of the known worlds or dominated the galaxy. Codex Orks uses the phrase, 'Ork settlements have been found scattered to the furthest corners of the galaxy.' It does not say they have conquered most of the known worlds. Later the Codex says that at the close of the 41st Millennium there are more Ork empires than ever so I reiterate my point, if the 41st Millennium marks the point where there are more Ork empires than ever then they haven't really done that much in the past sixty million years. I'll repeat that, sixty million years, that's a long, long, looong time for them to have only just become more of a menace than they have been in the past. You might well have a boner for Orks but your exaggerations of their prowess are just plain silly.

edit: In academia, using someone else's words without citation is called plagiarism So, being a college student, I place a very high emphasis on citing sources when I make direct quotes.

Well I happen to have graduated from university many years ago and I can tell you that your definition of plagiarism is wrong. Plagiarism arises when you copy or imitate someone elses words or ideas and present them as your own. I never presented that quote as my own and even if I had it would have made the quote utterly redundant so I would never even have tried too.

Still though, good for you that you place such a strong emphasis on citing direct quotes, what a shame then that you rarely actually use direct quotes and rely on hyperbole instead.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Okay, this one is definitely from the Lukas Anzion papers in the former ork codex. I'm sure of it.

That actual particular sentence is from Da Uvver Book but since Lukas Anzion is in almost every source book for the Orks these days it hardly matters.

Well I happen to have graduated from university many years ago and I can tell you that your definition of plagiarism is wrong

No, you can't.

Princeton defines plagiarism as "taking someone's words or ideas as if they were your own"

Directly quoting someone and then not citing them is the exact same as taking someone else's words and making them your own. And at least one person was kicked out of my English comp class years ago for doing exactly that


As for the rest, the map is in the rulebook, showing rather clearly the insanely high Ork presence in the galaxy.

-Loki- wrote:

WarrKing wrote:

Gogsnik wrote:

-Loki- wrote:I know. But I mean, a single squad of Space Marines on a planet infested with supposedly tactical equivalents... Orks should have caught them pretty quickly.

More pertinently, if Orks were born with the tactical knowledge and skill that Marines have to strive for centuries to obtain then what the hell have the Orks been doing for the last sixty million years? If the Orks were literally that good they would have conquered the entire galaxy long, long ago.

Here is my thought on this: Orks are born to fight, they know battle tactics from their ginetic coding, most just choose not to use them? Though Blood axes have used tactics in fights. Also (this is all speculation from what ive read so far in this forum) Gork and Mork are the strongest gods out there right? And only reason they keep other gods alive is for entertainment? So wouldn't that mean that they would "help" both sides of wars? If the Orks conquere the galaxy, then that would be the end to Gork and Morks fun? So they would do anything they had do to keep fights going? Even helping the enemy?

There's a difference between combat knowledge and strategic knowledge. I'm guessing Orks are born with the former. Very few Ork warlords in fluff have displayed the latter.

The majority of the Blood axes use stratagy in battles: camoflauge, tactics, ect, though they may not be as developed as some human tactics, they are still basic stratagies that they are born with right?

Melissia wrote:Princeton defines plagiarism as "taking someone's words or ideas as if they were your own"

Exactly, and at no point did I ever make out that the quote was my own words and not someone elses.

Directly quoting someone and then not citing them is the exact same as taking someone else's words and making them your own.

Oh. My. God. No it isn't. Taking someone elses words and making out that they are your words and not theirs is plagiarism. Taking someone elses words and acknowledging that fact but not citing the book and page reference is not plagiarism, sloppy essay writing maybe but it ain't plagiarism and I'm not writing an essay.

As for the rest, the map is in the rulebook, showing rather clearly the insanely high Ork presence in the galaxy.

A high level of presence does not, in any way, reinforce your wild claim that Orks have conquered almost every known world in the galaxy, nor does this line of argument make anyone forget the equally absurd claim that an Ork yoof has the tactical knowledge and skill of a centuries old Astartes.

Gogsnik wrote:A high level of presence does not, in any way, reinforce your wild claim that Orks have conquered almost every known world in the galaxy

Whelp, he's started to make gak up and claim I said it, so I'm gonna go over there and put him on my ignore list now.
So anyway....

Blood Axez use tactics, but so do the other clans. They just favor different ones. For example, Goffs prefer the simple, yet surprisingly effective Ork Wave tactic, which relies on Ork numbers and biological durability to get into close combat. It actually works quite well or them, given the massive numbers that Goffs can often put into a battle.

Basically, soon after he dies, the Ork releases spores which lodge themselves in the ground and grow and a fully grown Ork eventually emerges. This is why the Imperium always burns Ork corpses quickly after the battle, so the spores are destroyed. It's the same with the 'nids. As for their ships, they just loot what they can and build very basic ships with the parts.

'nids are different, if the Tyranid win over a planet rippers are sent down to collect all biomass living and non -iving, Tyranid or non-Tyranid. This is then taken back to the hive ships to be processed in the spawning vats. Therefore in an Tyranic invasion if they are not beaten back, they gain everything back and more. orks cannot subjugate a planet the way Tyranids can, not to mention sheer size of the fleets.

That's because Tyranids don't subjugate planets, they eat them.

Every single Ork releases spores all over their life, and especially when they die. That means that Ork numbers grow exponentially-- an ork-conquered world will, even with the constant fighting (or perhaps because of it), very quickly become so infested with Orks that they turn their eyes to invade new stars, to find new battles and wars to fight. And to win.

Tyranids don't do this. They consume a limited number of resources and then move on.

Limited? They consume more of a planet than any other race would ever use. Basically, the entire biosphere. Including not only plants and animals, but minerals, oceans and other liquids, even gases. The planet is left as a bare rock in space. While they don't stay on the planet, and thus don't get the benefit of new plants and animals growing, by the time that would make a difference, they've moved on to another planet.

So yeah, technically, limited in that they don't get the benefit of growth in the biosphere. But less limited than other races in that they literally take everything.

Melissia wrote:

Gogsnik wrote:A high level of presence does not, in any way, reinforce your wild claim that Orks have conquered almost every known world in the galaxy

Whelp, he's started to make gak up and claim I said it...

You said:

Melissia wrote:Orks have dominated the galaxy, conquering the majority of known planets

I did not make up anything and claim you said it, you actually said it, the post is on this page! Man, you've got some serious issues.

Manchu says: Please do not purposely attempt to interfere with legitimate uses of the Ignore function.

-Loki- wrote:So yeah, technically, limited in that they don't get the benefit of growth in the biosphere. But less limited than other races in that they literally take everything.

They don't take metals, for example, as they don't use much of them. Nor do they likely take all of the various silicon compounds either. If they did take all the metals and silicon/carbon compounds, they'd not even leave an asteroid when consuming an earthlike planet (most of Earth is molten iron, for example).

Which basically means that the planet can still be utilized by other species.

-Loki- wrote:Just because she ignored you...

It was an off-topic post I'll admit but I don't like being called a liar when I am not. To be honest with you though I don't even know what "ignoring" someone actually does/means so I could care less.

ChaosGalvatron wrote:Maybe the Orks do think of reproduction, since their main method is through these spores they are quite willing to die to create offspring.
An instinct to kill themselves (through battle) which creates new orks from the corpses must help the species. If all orks were pacifist how quickly would they expand?

An evolutionary imperative, that is an incredible insight, well done. Think it is a bit elegant for GW though, you are perhaps giving them too much credit. They are good at coaxing amazing theories like this from fans.

That might be a biological imperitive, but that doesn't mean that they personally think of such things.

Sorry, this isn't an ork question, its a nid question, but it sprung up when i read this quote so,

Loki wrote:Limited? They consume more of a planet than any other race would ever use. Basically, the entire biosphere. Including not only plants and animals, but minerals, oceans and other liquids, even gases. The planet is left as a bare rock in space. While they don't stay on the planet, and thus don't get the benefit of new plants and animals growing, by the time that would make a difference, they've moved on to another planet.

When nids "eat" a planet (comsume the biomass) does the atmosphere remain? because if it doesn't then there would be no

new plants and animals growing

and even if there was an atmopshere remaining, could life start over on a barren rock?

Life as we know it? Not necessarily. But Orks can survive in a vacuum (they send fighta-bommas up into space without any such issues), so it's very possible that Orkoid populations could.

WarrKing wrote:When nids "eat" a planet (comsume the biomass) does the atmosphere remain?

They do, consuming the atmosphere is one of the last things the hive ships do.

could life start over on a barren rock?

It's possible but it would take hundreds of millions of years to start over.

Isn't what happened was that the old ones got into a war with the necron gods and they were loosing so they made the orkz and the eldar. But what wound up happing way that some creepy things that are realy telopathic came out of the warp and drove the necrons away.

p.s. orkz are a sexual

Yes, the Enslavers (also Psyrens, Krell, dominators. puppeteers). There's new information on them in the Dark Heresy roleplay supplements.


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By the way, reading Into the Storm:

This reproductive system gives rise to another notable Ork trait: genetic knowledge. The ability to fight, to speak, and in the cases of the specialists or "Oddboy" castes, an understanding of science, technology, medicine, or any of a number of other complex skills, are all hard-wired into an Ork's genetics, as natural and instinctive as breathing. Orks emerge from the ground almost completely mature, with most of the skills they will ever require already present.

Similarly:

Orks in service of the Dark Gods, or even succumbing to the corrupting influence of the warp, are so rare as to be essentially unheard of. Simply put, Orks aren't as easily tempted to Chaos and they're far more resistant to the warping influence of Chaos than humans, for reasons that nobody has been able to accurately define.

Into the Storm is a great source, as ther's lots of information about Orks in general here.

To be fair, Tyranids are born fully grown with their intended behavior bred into them to. Synapse is there to guide them when they need guidance, but when it's not there, they can still do what they should be doing, if a little uncordinated.

This is in response to the questions that were raised about Orks actually having an understanding of sciences.

That is to say, they do. Their oddboyz know their science like we know how to breathe.

Eldrad wrote:Isn't what happened was that the old ones got into a war with the necron gods and they were loosing so they made the orkz and the eldar. But what wound up happing way that some creepy things that are realy telopathic came out of the warp and drove the necrons away.

Pretty much.

The Old Ones were attacked by the Necrontyr firstly but since the Old Ones had access to the webway they were easily able to push the Necrontyr back until they were little more than a minor irritation. The Necrontyr did not learn of the C'tan until later and eventually the C'tan with their new Necron slaves were able to crush the Old Ones.

It is unclear if the Old Ones literally made some of the ancient races or if they simply enhanced races which already existed. Personally, given the words and wording chosen in the Necron Codex I would opt for the latter, that the Old Ones enhanced existing races. According to the Codex they manipulated and nurtured many races, choosing the most warlike and making them more psychic to defend themselves against the C'tan.

These newly [or enhanced] psychic races are what caused the warp to become turbulent and turned the existing warp entities into ravening predators. The Enslavers are drawn to psykers especially as they use them to create warp portals which allows them ingress to the material world where they then enslave other races to do their bidding. Since the Enslavers were being attracted in ever greater numbers, destroying the young races in the process the C'tan decided to wait for the Enslavers to thin the psyker population and for the galaxy to throw up new life which they could then enslave and consume themselves and so went into stasis.

Melissia wrote:Life as we know it? Not necessarily. But Orks can survive in a vacuum (they send fighta-bommas up into space without any such issues), so it's very possible that Orkoid populations could.

To an extent, certainly, but even an Ork needs to breathe. I think the estimates are that they can survive for a few hours in a vacuum, but no more - somewhere in the Big Book, I believe.

In Rogue Trader: Into the Storm it describes an ability Orks have to resist the effects of the void, which can last quite a while.

Certainly I would think that it would be long enough to, say, develop an underground colony given that first fungus and then squigs form from said colonies.

Damn, they're hardier than I expected. Is it down to survival mechanisms or simply holding their breath for extended periods?

Uh, the skill's anme is "too 'ard to die". Or something to that effect.