Anyone else seen/heard about this? It is the new hotness from Spartan Games. Here is the link:

http://www.spartangames.co.uk/dystopian_wars.html

It looks like it is kind of a mix of Uncharted Seas ("wet" naval combat) and Firestorm Armada (fighters, bombers, etc). Reading the website, it sounds like there will be a land component to this game as well at some point, although it looks like the initial releases will be naval only.

So, what do you guys think? I am moderately excited about this. The game supposedly leverages the mechanics of US and FSA (range bands, exploding dice, etc), so if you like the way those play you will probably like this. I haven't played US yet, but I do like FSA a lot. And honestly, the look and setting of this game appeal to me a lot more than US does! What's not to like about a Zeppelin aircraft carrier?

A guy in our gaming group posted this up on our boards. They do a very good priced Mega starter bundle for £125 so we may look at picking this up. I must admit the models look absoloutely fantastic.

News about this has been around for awhile. I already have the FSA stuff preordered from a FLGS, the release schedule is reported to be alittle wonky though. The big test for me with this game will be weather or not its different from Uncharted or Firestorm in any way other then name and looks.

That is the big question. It is purported to be similar, but just how similar is hard to say. I would hope that it would be at least as different from US and FSA as those two games are from each other, but I haven't seen a lot of discussion on the game play yet.

Super excited about Dystopian Wars - just took advantage of TheWarStore's 5% off offer and bought the Prussian battleforce and the Air Fortress. I'm particularly interested in the air and land combat they're promising in the future... it'll be interesting to play a game that takes land, air and sea all into account.

Its pretty awesome looking... I'm eying up that Prussian fleet right now.

Cool looking minis, might get into it sometime...then again I say that about a lot of games.

IILeiBlazeII wrote:Super excited about Dystopian Wars - just took advantage of TheWarStore's 5% off offer and bought the Prussian battleforce and the Air Fortress. I'm particularly interested in the air and land combat they're promising in the future... it'll be interesting to play a game that takes land, air and sea all into account.

Just to play the Devils advocate, Spartan Games has a very Wonkey release schedule. don't hold your breath waiting for them to realease something, but it will come out...eventually.

Eh, I don't think they are any more "wonky" than any of the other companies out there...WotC has pushed back War At Sea sets multiple times before, and GW? Who knows; they won't tell you what is in the works!

From what I have seen, Spartan Games seems to be pretty consistent at releasing games fairly quickly once they have done the big splash announcement via email/website. Granted though, this might be because I've only been paying attention to them for about the last 8 months or so. It is possible they weren't as consistent prior to that.

Ruckdog wrote:Eh, I don't think they are any more "wonky" than any of the other companies out there...WotC has pushed back War At Sea sets multiple times before, and GW? Who knows; they won't tell you what is in the works!

From what I have seen, Spartan Games seems to be pretty consistent at releasing games fairly quickly once they have done the big splash announcement via email/website. Granted though, this might be because I've only been paying attention to them for about the last 8 months or so. It is possible they weren't as consistent prior to that.

Talking to an owner of my FLGS, the Models and boxes for the first four factions arre scheduled to release before the rulebook....

Models look great, but I don't care for another Spartan "whoever rolls more 6s wins" game.

lord_blackfang wrote:Models look great, but I don't care for another Spartan "whoever rolls more 6s wins" game.

I shoot your battle ship with my frigate.

Thats 4 shots at 4+.

I get 30 hits, thats a double critical!

The Exploding dice mechanice can get alittle carried away some times.

Catyrpelius wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:Models look great, but I don't care for another Spartan "whoever rolls more 6s wins" game.

I shoot your battle ship with my frigate.

Thats 4 shots at 4+.

I get 30 hits, thats a double critical!

The Exploding dice mechanice can get alittle carried away some times.

While I suppose its possible, it never happens (at least in none of the exploding D6 games that I've played, Spartan included). IMO, the usual cause of insane numbers of 6s seems to be the way the dice are rolled (picked up sixes are dropped and end up on sixes again). Rolling extra dice from the cube, and making sure the actually roll some across the table really seems to solve the oodles of d6 stuff that I've seen other players end up with.

I got over 20 hits on 8 dice last week. And that's on regular GW dice all shaken properly in both hands cupped together.

Sadly, I was shooting at an Escort. But when my opponent realized I could have one-shotted his battleship with two frigates, he put all his Sorylians in a box on top of his closet next to the WHFB and 40k stuff he hasn't used in 5+ years.

lord_blackfang wrote:Models look great, but I don't care for another Spartan "whoever rolls more 6s wins" game.

Whoa, so if you roll better than your opponent in a game that uses dice, you win? ASTOUNDING!

I keed, I keed.

Actually, this discussion is interesting to me, I've seen it come up a couple of times elsewhere online and with a few of the gamers at my FLGS. It seems like the whole exploding dice mechanic is a very polarizing thing...people seem to either love it or hate it.

I like it myself, as to me it helps keep the game interesting and unpredictable. It seems your friend looked at the example of getting 20 hits off of 8 dice and decided that there was too much luck involved (and lets be honest, getting 20 hits on that many dice is pretty lucky). The corollary to that is the notion that there is no way 2 frigates should be able to destroy a battleship, for "fairness" reasons. On the other hand, I like the narrative opportunities that a couple of frigates overcoming long odds to fell a larger opponent provides.

lord_blackfang wrote:I got over 20 hits on 8 dice last week. And that's on regular GW dice all shaken properly in both hands cupped together.

Sadly, I was shooting at an Escort. But when my opponent realized I could have one-shotted his battleship with two frigates, he put all his Sorylians in a box on top of his closet next to the WHFB and 40k stuff he hasn't used in 5+ years.

I think you might have made a mistake in that game; AFAIK the most dice you can get out of two frigates in a single linked-fire salvo is 7 (the Relthoza, Directorate, and Dindrenzi can do this, to be precise). And your friend definitely sounds like he isn't a fan of games with certain degrees of luck, as in one-shotting a Land Radier with a lascannon or a Guardsman killing a Terminator with a lasgun (both of which I suspect are actually more likely than getting 20 hits on 8 dice!). Out of curiosity, what games does your friend like to play?

A happy compromise on the exploding d6 mechanic is to allow a single die to only explode once. Thus a single 6 could never be more than 4 hits (6, 6).

Catyrpelius wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:Models look great, but I don't care for another Spartan "whoever rolls more 6s wins" game.

I shoot your battle ship with my frigate.

Thats 4 shots at 4+.

I get 30 hits, thats a double critical!

The Exploding dice mechanice can get alittle carried away some times.

The chances of getting 30 hits from 4 dice is pretty darn small. We're talking 1-2% range and that's probably being generous. It is an interesting matter of perception though. Technically you could fire 5 (or 6) missle launchers at a land raider and kill it. First you hit with all five shots, then roll 6s for all your penetration rolls then all 5s and 6s after that to kill the three weapons, immobilize it and get the last hit in. Sure it can happen but it's extremely unlikely. The difference is that the exploding mechanic people see it and think they will get the exponential results several times per game when in reality it isn't that common. People won't remeber the dozen or more times they rolled 16+ dice and got 10 or less hits. They remember the one time they got 25-30. What is more likely is to get a luckly 2 or 12 on the critical hit chart and sink that expensive battleship / carrier / whatever and that's still only a 6% chance or so. Getting lots of dice on a frigate is meaningless. On a cruiser simply kills it in one shot which is not a game breaker. If you're lucky you'll get two crits on a big ship. That will go a long way to crippling it but with 8-10 hull points you won't be killing it very often with sheer brute force in a single turn.

I can understand why people do not like the mechanic but I will politely disagree that the three spartan games are simply a matter of of 'who rolls the most 6's wins.'

Looks like Spartan is showing more renders for some of their ships. Holy Flying French Battleship, Batman!

http://www.spartangames.co.uk/dystopian_wars_previews_french_battleship.html

More new pictures of some flyers

http://www.spartangames.co.uk/dystopian_wars_previews_medium_flyers.html

I really like both the FSA and Prussian air ships...I've always had a fascination with Zepplins .

Pretty wicked looking figures, but then again I'm a sucker for Steampunk (who isn't?). The concept and timeline vaguely reminds me of Aeronef, but who knows how the rules are.

I'll be picking this up on Thursday.

So far from everything I've read, it's more of a game than simulation, which is fine by me.

I definitely didn't want just a naval game, so the future inclusion of land, sea, and air makes this very interesting.

I'm wondering if infantry will be handled in any way in the land war. Probably just small tokens like the fighters that have transports, and can try to board the landships to do damage.

Infantry are not handled in any way in the rules, it's abstracted into an AP value for vehicles, representing boarding actions by Marines etc. That said there are robots for some factions and there is talk of having large creatures, that have been bred using Darwin's new science. The only one in the rule book is a giant squid for the Rising Sun faction, but I'd expect to see more in the future.

True, but in the future there could be tokens for things like Tiny Vehicles (similar to Tiny Fliers or other Tiny Tokens) that represent infantry scale units.

I like KoB, but also like the FSA's modus operandi.

The KoB ships look great with the dazzle pattern, and their land vehicles, including the WW1 land raider-like tanks really, really appeal to me. So, I know I'll be getting sea and land forces for KoB

Meanwhile, the FSA paddlewheels look a bit strange to me, but the turrets, tougher battleship, and extra shield generators sounds fun to use. Even the double decker carrier the FSA have looks awesome despite the paddle wheels, I like it slightly more than the Prussian zepplin carrier. Sadly, they haven't shown any FSA land vehicles.

I've ended up ordering both starters so I a friend and I could play.

I too am anxious to see the FSA land units... I wonder if they will look like giant Shermans? The paddle wheels are a little off-putting, as even in the "real" time line by 1870 screw propulsion was well established as a superior technology, especially for war ships.

I can't wait to get my hands on the rules and minis (they are on my Christmas list)!

Hidden away on the site is this link which has some cad drawings of FSA land units. One tank and the amphibious land ship.

http://www.spartangames.co.uk/dystopian_wars_federated_states.html

Alright, those amphibious land ships has made be interested in the FSA again, especially since I can use those in naval engagements. Park them on some island somewhere and bombard ships with it.

Thanks for the link! Those amphibious ships look pretty neat. I also like the looks of the flying carrier. I'm guessing that the flying carrier will be usable for both land and sea games...

Sadly, the FSA does not have a flying carrier. That is actually the top deck of the FSA naval carrier that's been removed to show the internal details of the model. It's on a flight stand for show, not to indicate flying.

Huh. I didn't notice that . I was thinking I had read somewhere that each faction was going to have both a "wet" carrier and a flying one, but I may have made that up in my head.

bosky wrote:Pretty wicked looking figures, but then again I'm a sucker for Steampunk (who isn't?). The concept and timeline vaguely reminds me of Aeronef, but who knows how the rules are.

Even more simplistic than the usual spartan mechanic.

I haven't looked at the rules yet, but thats what is really going to sell me on the game. I am a big fan of Steampunk and Victorian Science Fiction, and this does not strike me as either. The aesthetic design of the game is just... terrible. It's the bastard offspring of steampunk and dieselpunk, with a big tall glass of grimdark thrown in for good measure.

A little bird told me I'll be getting the Rulebook, cards, Prussian box + Carrier, and Blazing Sun box + Carrier for Xmas.

I'm stoked.

Ruckdog wrote:Huh. I didn't notice that . I was thinking I had read somewhere that each faction was going to have both a "wet" carrier and a flying one, but I may have made that up in my head.

You didn't. The stats for the FSA Savannah class Sky fortress are in the book. In fact there are stats for a land, sea and air carrier for all of the initial four factions in the book, as well as fixed airfields. There just aren't models for all of them yet

Good to see I'm not going completely crazy . Do they have reders for those in the rulebook yet? I remember with the first printings of the FSA rule book how the Direcotrate carrier's stats were in the book, but they didn't have renders yet. I didn't realize they were going to have landship carriers too...that is interesting!

I have the book, and played a quick learner's game where we pretty much did almost everything wrong.

Sadly, there's really only renders of stuff we've already seen in the book.

Overall, I like the game, the exploding dice mechanic may seem crazy at first, but the considering that each hit only adds up to either do 1 point of HP (if you equal or exceed his DR), or a critical damage (if you exceed his CR, usually 2 HP along with some critical effect), but not both, the amount of damage you take from one attack can't really get that crazy.

Technically you can take more critical results from doubling or tripling the CR on an attack, but the CR ratings are pretty high, so even if you have a perfect setup with all weapons in their optimal range bands you're still only likely to just exceed CR unless you're firing at a cruiser, and even then you probably earned the double or triple crit by wasting all your shots on one ship. The only way to get reliably get lots of damage in one turn, is to attack it with multiple squadrons/ships and that means those are things not firing at other parts.

So it works.

Yeah, that sounds just like the damage/crit system in FSA (and, presumably, US as well).

The system has a lot of complex interactions, but no more than say Warhammer or so.

There's just so many different unit types and sizes, that all do different things.

Boarding also seems like a pain.

Thankfully, they've done a decent job of cataloging most major differences in a quick reference sheet, handily included with the rulebook.

Once you read through the rules and get it into your mind, the quick reference sheet is enough of a refresher that you can play most games without worrying.

All those complex interactions does add to the game. It should be interesting to to see how it expands.

Edit: http://www.spartangames.co.uk/dystopian_wars_previews.html

Good grief, the FSA landship is amphibious and has the double barreled version of their crazy powerful battleship gun.

Ive already got my prussians painted up and geting reared up to go play a game against the FSA and Brits. Should be good times.

nieto666 wrote:Ive already got my prussians painted up and geting reared up to go play a game against the FSA and Brits. Should be good times.

Great! I would love to see some pictures if you get the time.

My cell phone doesnt like me however a friend of mine took plenty. As soon as he gets them up Ill get em posted.

A few pciks of our game yesterday, scroll to next as there are only three pics.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?pid=31239992&o=all&op=1&view=all&subj=96244399385&id=1242646617&fbid=1526238236222

Neat! Your scheme looks pretty good. You should try to post some close-ups in the Dakka gallery .

My prussians turned out a little darker then i had expected. Im going to give them a nice drybrushing of a lighter grey. This should be done by the end of tomarrow. I'll be playing another game on Tuesday and Ill have my buddy break out his camera

So, I'm not liking the default tokens with the game. The 1" big tokens are just too big and glaring and can detract from the aesthetic of the table (which is one of the reasons why I play). The same goes for dice and tracking fuel, so I have a few ideas to at least tone down the amount of counters, or at least reduce their footprint.

First, the tiny fliers. On the Spartan forums someone posted this idea, which I like. Basically they're flight bases with a 1-6 dial on the bottom. You'll need two parts, the base and the dial:
http://www.litkoaero.com/page/LAI/PROD/AFS/AFS025-10

Then you'll need a flight stand. The same post recommended the .75 stands since they're lower than the large slight stands included with various ships and stuff, but higher than most ships. Find those here:
http://www.litkoaero.com/page/LAI/PROD/AFS/AFS007-10

Then if you don't want to perma glue your tokens to the stands, or buy extra magnets, there's these stand toppers, which you can actually glue to your tokens, providing a tight fit for the token to stand:
http://www.litkoaero.com/page/LAI/PROD/AFS/AFS006-20

These are, of course, acrylic stands, but at least they're clear. The whole thing occupies only a little more footprint than the tiny flier token, the dial tracks the fuel, and the flight stand raises the fighters up off the play area to better represent them as fliers.

Then, since the most common tokens are the damage trackers, I have two ideas. The first is to create cards that track damage, similar to warmachine. Then put decals or some other markings to indicate which ship is which. There could also be check boxes for the various critical hits.

The other is to simply make smaller tokens, say 0.5" square tokens with a simple red or green number to indicate hull or assault damage.

Vertrucio wrote:
Then, since the most common tokens are the damage trackers, I have two ideas. The first is to create cards that track damage, similar to warmachine. Then put decals or some other markings to indicate which ship is which. There could also be check boxes for the various critical hits.

This is what I did for Firestorm. I created an excel spreadsheet with all of the different ships on it, and made squadron "cards" which I then printed out. Its really nice in large games where you can mark "activated" on the card as well, so you don't lose track of what has activated during a given turn.

Vertrucio wrote:So, I'm not liking the default tokens with the game. The 1" big tokens are just too big and glaring and can detract from the aesthetic of the table (which is one of the reasons why I play). The same goes for dice and tracking fuel, so I have a few ideas to at least tone down the amount of counters, or at least reduce their footprint.

First, the tiny fliers. On the Spartan forums someone posted this idea, which I like. Basically they're flight bases with a 1-6 dial on the bottom. You'll need two parts, the base and the dial:
http://www.litkoaero.com/page/LAI/PROD/AFS/AFS025-10

Then you'll need a flight stand. The same post recommended the .75 stands since they're lower than the large slight stands included with various ships and stuff, but higher than most ships. Find those here:
http://www.litkoaero.com/page/LAI/PROD/AFS/AFS007-10

Then if you don't want to perma glue your tokens to the stands, or buy extra magnets, there's these stand toppers, which you can actually glue to your tokens, providing a tight fit for the token to stand:
http://www.litkoaero.com/page/LAI/PROD/AFS/AFS006-20

These are, of course, acrylic stands, but at least they're clear. The whole thing occupies only a little more footprint than the tiny flier token, the dial tracks the fuel, and the flight stand raises the fighters up off the play area to better represent them as fliers.

Then, since the most common tokens are the damage trackers, I have two ideas. The first is to create cards that track damage, similar to warmachine. Then put decals or some other markings to indicate which ship is which. There could also be check boxes for the various critical hits.

The other is to simply make smaller tokens, say 0.5" square tokens with a simple red or green number to indicate hull or assault damage.

Interesting links! I'm a big fan of Litko...hopefully they will come out with some official stuff like they did for Uncharted Seas and Firestorm.

I've gone ahead and put in an order for the litko stuff. I'll let you know if it works well. I ended up buying 1" tall flight stands since my large fingers will probably have problems moving the dial on .75" and it's still 1/2 of the 2" tall flight stands for other DW stuff.

Anyway, another aspect that I both like and dislike are the effects of the Game Cards. I like them in some friendly games where they have such wild effects. It also adds some more randomness and mitigation to certain devastating effects. However, it also adds some of its own devastating effects. With 5 available cards on any turn, that's a lot of potentially powerful abilities to throw out.

I was thinking of creating another deck with the help of the community where the effects are still useful, but less powerful.

For example, instead of outright repairs to a ship, a card could simply allow a player to ignore the effects of HP damage X amount of times. Call it, extra crew or shifting crew. Another card could be Jury Rigging, which allows you to ignore points of hull damage for a certain time, but you have to roll at the end of your activation for it to go away.

Still powerful, but the ship is still damaged, and it's only temporary. It's not doubling a ship's firepower or make them somehow super effective. But it can allow for some more maneuvers.

I'm also considering a simple limit of just 1 card per squadron of non tiny tokens at the start of the game, no drawing more. Or to actually point cost out the cards somehow to be taken for points during fleet creation.

For some reason, the links aren't working for me. I went and dug 'em out of the website:

Stands and Dials:
http://www.litkoaero.com/products/6-Count-Numbered-Dial-and-Pointers-%28Set-of-10%29.html

Pegs:
http://www.litkoaero.com/products/0.75-inch-Flight-Pegs-%2810-pack%29.html

Toppers:
http://www.litkoaero.com/products/Flight-Peg-Toppers%2C-20-ct.html

--B.

Yeah, litko just changed their website a few days after my post, thanks for updating the links for us.

I should be getting this stuff in sometime in the next week or two. Considering all the stuff dealing with the holidays, it might be a while.

Back to the game itself, how are people liking it?

I'm finding it pretty enjoyable, although the writing on the rulebook could be much, much better.

I'm also finding the lack of scenarios, or objectives beyond straight up fights in the rulebook to be a big omission. Even Warmachine has the base caster kill scenario. As it stands the Sink the Battleship/Commodore is kind of an objective, but it needs more.

I'm thinking of using some kind of basic scenario that's similar to what you see in the Dawn of War series of PC RTS games. There's a set number of objectives (3-5) on the table, and you have to capture them by getting close, or even send AP to board. These could be something like Sturginium/Oil derricks. You can't destroy them, they're too valuable for people to shoot. Holding an objective gives you points at the end of the turn.

This seems to be a trend with Spartan...the FSA rulebook only has 4 very simple missions in it. I can only guess that they are trying to force players to be creative and come up with their own.

I like the idea of capturable oil rigs. I think that forcing the players to use AP to board them would be a good thing, as it would make for a nice dynamic where they can still switch hands thanks to counter-boarding. I've been tossing around a similar idea for asteroid bases in FSA.

Another way you could do objectives would be to use a system similar to Axis & Allies War at Sea. In that game, you capture an objective if you are on the objective sector, and there are no enemy units the same or adjacent sector. Maybe for this game, that can be changed to having a friendly ship within 4" and no enemies within 8"?

That could actually be two different scenarios.

But the problem with such large control zones and such a large area to contest with, is that it doesn't give definitely control to someone until after a battle is fought. So essentially, you're just playing the same kill everything game since everything is in the zone fighting.

With the Derricks/Sturginium Refineries, once you capture them with AP, you have them and they give you points towards victory, and you can leave that AP there and send ships to do other things, or recall the AP.

I don't play any of the Spartan Games (but, gosh, their minis are so very yummy)...BUT!

Here's a list of scenarios that might work, given the scale/size of the game and table:

Convoy Escort/Planetary Assault: Must protect transports moving across the board, the latter gives you the opportunity to make a line of 'defenses', like satellites.

Seek and Destroy: One side has a hidden cache/base/whatever, hidden in one of 'X' groups of asteroids. The other side must find it and destroy it.

Recon: One side gets X points, the other side gets 1/2 X or less. The lesser side has to survive 'x' turns (or 'scan' each enemy ship), and then escape off of their table edge with the data about the enemy fleet.

Desperate Defense: Same as above, but the lesser side has to do more damage than the value of their fleet in a suicide defense to stall the attackers, rather than survive and escape.

I would suggest perusing the various BFG books for more scenarios as well!

--Brian

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll look into those ideas.

I've been eagerly painting and reading my Christmas DW arrivals

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=53352&id=1673186719

I still have not been lucky enough to have a game but I like the way the rules blend the interactions of air and naval units without giving overwhelming advantage to the aircraft. With such beautiful battleships, it would have been a shame if the rules gave airpower it's true dominance.

I also love that they have given us full stats for twenty plus you it's per faction and the knowledge that we have four more factions planned. I have not been this exited about a game since epic 40k fifteen years ago. I can only hop that this game survives better than my last favorite. I have been dreaming of a sic fi Flames of War for a long time and this seems to scratch that itch better than anything I have seen yet.

If there is anyone in the Philly area looking for games, I have the starter plus carrier for all four factions so I can bring whatever is needed.

I hate to be a downer, but this game just doesn't look good to me. When I look at a game of 40k being played with painted armies and on proper terrain, it generally looks awesome and evocative-- this really doesn't have that effect on me at all. Even if the rules are the best thing since sliced bread, it's going to be hard to get me past that initial "meh" feeling.

Fetterkey wrote:I hate to be a downer, but this game just doesn't look good to me. When I look at a game of 40k being played with painted armies and on proper terrain, it generally looks awesome and evocative-- this really doesn't have that effect on me at all. Even if the rules are the best thing since sliced bread, it's going to be hard to get me past that initial "meh" feeling.

No worries, everyone has different feelings about different scales and settings.

I always get that feeling more from games with a grander scale. To me a massive fleet of cruisers and battleships an painted up and beautiful will always give me more of a "shiver up the spine feeling" than a few tanks and a couple score of infantry. I guess that's why I loved Epic so much back in the day.

I wonder if its the scale you don't like, or just the setting?

Did you find the previous Spartan games like FA and US to be any more evocative?

Either way its totally cool, there is a reason that "Heroic 28mm" is by far the most popular scale in our hobby. Most people relate much better to it than when the scale is zoomed out to the more Strategic and Operational levels than the purely tactical.

Except that so far, you haven't really seen full sizes 1000-1500 point armies on proper, well made naval and land terrain. The game has been out for less than a month. I think you'll probably reconsider once you see full 1500 or 2000 point fleets on a table with land, air, and sea units duking it out for objectives.

Here's the current rules for my Oil Derricks Scenario:
2 Players

Place 5 oil derricks on the map at the start of the game. One must be placed as close to the center of the table as possible, while still accessible to both sides of the table. The remaining 4 derricks are split between each player, and you must place one of the 2 derricks you have on the enemy side of the board, and you may not place your derrick within 12" of your deployment edge. Alternatively, use a map template with preset derrick locations, terrain, and deployment areas.

These derricks cannot be attacked other than to board them. Successfully boarding one means you have captured it and it will remain under your control, even if you recall all your AP and leave nothing on the derrick, until your opponent captures it from you.

These derricks have no combat capability. Leaving AP on a derrick means that if an opponent tries to board, there will be an assault round. If there is enemy AP on a derrick, and you assault, but both AP are wiped out, control of the derrick goes to the attacker.

At the end of the round, you gain 1 point for each derrick you have under your control. Depending on the length of game you want, the first player to reach 5, 7, or 9 points wins. If both players obtain the set amount at the same time, the one with the higher count wins.

The good thing about this mission style is that it promotes fighting across the table, and you can scale it as necessary. If you have more players, add more derricks. You can even play this scenario as a free for all.

I also suggest having some derricks within locations that only air an small ships can get into, such as a cove blocked by a reef.

Sounds like a good scenario idea to me! I'm going to have to try a similar mission using space stations with FSA.

Vertrucio wrote:

These derricks cannot be attacked other than to board them. Successfully boarding one means you have captured it and it will remain under your control, even if you recall all your AP and leave nothing on the derrick, until your opponent captures it from you.

So...in DW you can call back your AP? Interesting....

That is a good one, I will see if I can get some nice Derrick terrain pieces and have tha scenario set up for dakkacon this month.

In DW, you can board from 4" away (this is done since all ships have Rocket Infantry) and recall your AP if there is any left on the enemy ship after you've won a boarding, the ship that the AP came from must still be within 4" when this happens.

More terrain types and interesting environmental events should add to the game. With all the sturginium use in the setting, enough to cause energy vortexes to suddenly appear, I'd assume it's got to have other effects as well.

Some friends and I were talking about how you could have the Dystopian Wars equivalent of a Space Hulk, or rather a Sturginium Hulk, where pieces or whole ships that were teleported into the ether reappear mangled, or mashed together into a horrific landscape. The crews are also found dead and often fused into the very walls of the ships they once crewed. Despite the horrific sights, within these hulks are large amounts of raw sturginium, making them worth fighting for.

Weather could also be a factor. I've got a cool idea for a weather deck, that not only generates a random starting weather via card draw, but uses icons to determine when there's changes in the weather, or weather related events happen, such as a sturginium laced storm cloud unleashing a massive torrent of lightning.

I really like the idea of a weather system, especially something that includes bizarre Sturginium based weather effects on rare occasions.

You should post your scenario rules up on the Spartan
Forum, I know the guys from D6G had done a couple of them and several members of the community are talking about putting together a compilation of scenarios to last us until Spartan puts some kind of scenario book out.

I would, but they haven't approved my account on their forums yet, it's been a while since I signed up too. Thus I'm posting here in the meantime. I do read their forums though.

Sounds like they've been out of the office until today, so I'm willing to cut them some slack, but approving forum accounts and getting the FAQ/Errata officially out soon is going to be important in the new year.

Could you do me a favor and post this scenario up there for me? My account name there is Vertrucio, I'd love to get some more feedback on it. So far I've played 3 games of it and it works as a way to impose a satisfying time/turn limit on a game, but I'm sure there could better.

I've also got some Warmachine style cards I'm making for DW, which has both stats and HP/AP damage boxes, critical damage, even boarders. There's even a Tiny Flier card for tracking fuel, so if you can number the tokens somehow. This should really reduce the number of tokens on the table.

My FLGS finally got the rule books in (no models yet, though)! I can finally start digging through them. So far, it looks very nice; I was surprised by the sheer number of profiles listed in the book.

Vertrucio wrote:I would, but they haven't approved my account on their forums yet, it's been a while since I signed up too. Thus I'm posting here in the meantime. I do read their forums though.

Did you send Spartan Neil an email that you requested admission? Their sign up process is a bit clunky. I was waiting a while until I saw that they prefer you send Neil an email and that seems to get the registration process done faster.

@ Vetrucio

I have real concerns that a scenario which favors boarding in a game that already favors boarding is just too OTT in favor of Prussians and sky lists in general.

If, for example, I can stay Obscured with 2 Sky Fortresses parked over an objective and be hittable on 6's only while dumping... what... 20AP onto the objective, I'm pretty sure I can win that one by just having more dudes than you. And if you try to out-fight it, you're hugely vulnerable to counterboarding attempts.

The guy with fewer AP and/or fewer Obscured flyers dumping AP everywhere just seems to be on the back foot the entire time.

I already tried sending the email, no response or change to my account so far.

As for the scenario, that's why I need it playtested. The other ship types aren't available in my area.

That said, that's 20 AP on one objective, but remember, that's only 1 objective out of 5. You can easily make things more interesting by going up to 7 objectives for 2 players, and increasing the victory amount.

There might also be something missing as to the whole obscured fliers thing. I wonder if other obscured flyers have a hard time hitting each other. Corvettes seem like a good way to take down them.

ramongoroth wrote:

Vertrucio wrote:I would, but they haven't approved my account on their forums yet, it's been a while since I signed up too. Thus I'm posting here in the meantime. I do read their forums though.

Did you send Spartan Neil an email that you requested admission? Their sign up process is a bit clunky. I was waiting a while until I saw that they prefer you send Neil an email and that seems to get the registration process done faster.

I PM'd Neil for you and let him know you were having an issue. Hopefully he will get back to you soon.

Vertrucio wrote:I would, but they haven't approved my account on their forums yet, it's been a while since I signed up too. Thus I'm posting here in the meantime. I do read their forums though.

Sounds like they've been out of the office until today, so I'm willing to cut them some slack, but approving forum accounts and getting the FAQ/Errata officially out soon is going to be important in the new year.

Could you do me a favor and post this scenario up there for me? My account name there is Vertrucio, I'd love to get some more feedback on it. So far I've played 3 games of it and it works as a way to impose a satisfying time/turn limit on a game, but I'm sure there could better.

I've also got some Warmachine style cards I'm making for DW, which has both stats and HP/AP damage boxes, critical damage, even boarders. There's even a Tiny Flier card for tracking fuel, so if you can number the tokens somehow. This should really reduce the number of tokens on the table.

Sure, I will write it up tomorrow and be sure to mention you as the author, I have put up a few scenarios over thevlast couple days so i have a format that seems to be to everyones liking. I'll be sure to let you kow of any feedback I get on it.

Strange that they are taking so long to approve you, minecwas almost instant, but that was back during the release of FA so maybevthings have changed


Automatically Appended Next Post:

sourclams wrote:@ Vetrucio

I have real concerns that a scenario which favors boarding in a game that already favors boarding is just too OTT in favor of Prussians and sky lists in general.

If, for example, I can stay Obscured with 2 Sky Fortresses parked over an objective and be hittable on 6's only while dumping... what... 20AP onto the objective, I'm pretty sure I can win that one by just having more dudes than you. And if you try to out-fight it, you're hugely vulnerable to counterboarding attempts.

The guy with fewer AP and/or fewer Obscured flyers dumping AP everywhere just seems to be on the back foot the entire time.

From what I have seen so far boarding objectives based scenarios have worked out pretty well, but I do agree they can give pure air lists a heavy advantage. I don't think prussians will be that bad normally as they can take a hammering from other factions with better RB 3/4 firepower, but the Prussian zeppelins of doom list would be hard to stop in objective based games. Of course, that list is evil in any type of game, at least until more types of units are available.

Got approved finally, guess they glossed over my first message while going through their mail backlog after vacation.

I'll post some scenarios up and see what people think.

Vertrucio wrote:Got approved finally, guess they glossed over my first message while going through their mail backlog after vacation.

I'll post some scenarios up and see what people think.

Cool, cant wait to see them! Ive been posting mine in the Battle Reports Section.

I got my set this weekend...
Anyone have any painted yet?

No, I haven't gotten my hands on mine yet; they are waiting for me at the FLGS for when I get back into town on Friday! The funny thing is, I will be giving a demo game on the following Sunday, so I am trying to decide if I want to try and speed-paint a fleet Friday afternoon and Saturday to try and have a painted one ready. I'm thinking I might have to settle for one completed ship and live with the rest being in primer.

I've got my Kingdom of Britannia fleet semi-painted. The battleship, cruisers, and the frigates from the boxset are done, and I'll be priming the carrier, bombers, and the tiny tokens (all 16 of them!) over the weekend.

I've got to say, the detail is absolutely amazing on these models. The fact that the cruisers have doors and steps on the back leading into the bridge is mind-blowing.

I went with a simple steel/gold theme that has a nice overall steam-punk feel to it. I may post pictures later.

I demand pictures!!! Of your guys fleets painted or not I wanna check them out!!!

Ok! Ok! I should be getting my first ship painted up tomorrow, and I'll put up some pics in my P&M blog if I can.

EDIT: Got my first cruiser all painted up as a test. I am going with a "Great White Fleet" theme:

Thank you very much kind sir I appreciate the pic, and the mini looks great too!

Has anyone done a battle report yet?

Some nice video reports here:

http://forum.spartangames.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4474.0

Can't see the site... gotta wait til I get home.

I saw this at the LGS a weekend or so ago, and it looks really cool. I'm going to get a starter set myself.

Here's a couple of photos of my Battleship and Cruiser. Sorry if they're a bit blurry, as they're kind of a rush job. I'll post everything once I've finished my Carrier (which is HUGE. If you haven't seen it, imagine two battleships carrying an airfield overhead) and some of these Tiny Tokens.

Those miniatures look awesome, is that the Brittainia fleet?

Yup! I love the look of the big, sloping sides. I really can't wait for the Dreadnought to come out.

And the Britannia land forces? Land raiders with St. Paul's Cathedral on top. YES.

I really don't understand how people can say they like these mini's... it just doesn't make sense. They look like chibiships to me...

You know, I really think it's a personal thing.

People who are going to like the minis for DW are going to enjoy the steampunk look.

Add to that the fact that the larger ships are, and are going to be, about the size of Rhinos, and you'll see they aren't really 'chibiships', as you call them.

Thats just it, I LOOOOOVVVEEEE steampunk... this is NOT steampunk, at least not to me. It lacks the certain refined grace necessary to be steampunk.

Really, thinking it through the best way to describe the minis is 'Rivetpunk'. They are really industrial looking, even the airships look more industrial than your usual steampunk fare.

Add to that the fact that the larger ships are, and are going to be, about the size of Rhinos, and you'll see they aren't really 'chibiships', as you call them.

Chibi has nothing to do with the size of a mini. Yeah, I've seen these minis in person before. The ships look cartoony and misproportioned, hence chibi. Either that or the guns in this game are REALLY frackin' big.

I am pretty much finished painting my Cruisers & Frigates... Battleship had casting issues and waiting to hear back.
Airship is about 50% done, painting a cross free hand was a pain in the......
I'll post up some pictures tomorrow.

Hope to play my first game with these babies this weekend.

chaos0xomega wrote:Thats just it, I LOOOOOVVVEEEE steampunk... this is NOT steampunk, at least not to me. It lacks the certain refined grace necessary to be steampunk.

Really, thinking it through the best way to describe the minis is 'Rivetpunk'. They are really industrial looking, even the airships look more industrial than your usual steampunk fare.

Add to that the fact that the larger ships are, and are going to be, about the size of Rhinos, and you'll see they aren't really 'chibiships', as you call them.

Chibi has nothing to do with the size of a mini. Yeah, I've seen these minis in person before. The ships look cartoony and misproportioned, hence chibi. Either that or the guns in this game are REALLY frackin' big.

As it turns out, according to the rulebook the FSA battleships and cruisers are armed with a 38-inch gun in their turrets...so yeah, REALLY fracking big .

To be fair, I do see your point about some of the proportions, but I find it kind of charming. Never mind that as naval vessels they are entirely impractical (no masts, no anchors, the FSA is using paddlewheeles, etc). As I mentioned in the Leviathans thread, I too feel that some of the minis look a little to "advanced" for a steam-punk setting. That being said, I think that a majority of people out there are going to look at the minis and art work and think "steam punk." Are they wrong? No, I just think that there aren't many people who geek out about this stuff enough to bother dividing it up into "steam punk," "diesel punk," and "rivet punk." To them, steam punk encompasses all things that are advanced in function but retro in technology.

As it turns out, according to the rulebook the FSA battleships and cruisers are armed with a 38-inch gun in their turrets...so yeah, REALLY fracking big .

...okay, maybe the minis aren't that chibi...

I dunno, in light of that revelation, maybe I'll pick it up one day, but I already have too much stuff to work on, and I rarely play Firestorm/Uncharted except once in a blue moon. If they had more airship based units maybe then I would jump into the game.

There are a bunch of Airship releases coming next month, bombers and fighters for each faction.

Dez wrote:There are a bunch of Airship releases coming next month, bombers and fighters for each faction.

Yeah, thats another thing I find issue with. Bombers/Fighters make the game too much like WW2/post WW2 style combat, which further detracts from the steampunk feel. It wouldn't be too bad if they were toned down, but from what I've been reading, they have a big impact on the game.

I wouldn't get hung up on the "steampunk" issue, I agree it doesn't quite fit that genre. Especially with what will be released for the covenent of anartica. I imagine it as alternate history before the wws.

chaos0xomega wrote:

Dez wrote:There are a bunch of Airship releases coming next month, bombers and fighters for each faction.

Yeah, thats another thing I find issue with. Bombers/Fighters make the game too much like WW2/post WW2 style combat, which further detracts from the steampunk feel. It wouldn't be too bad if they were toned down, but from what I've been reading, they have a big impact on the game.

Well, so far I've only been able to play one game, but that can be the case. Especially in the case of the large bombers; mine were able to get a crit that destroyed one of the opponent's cruisers (granted that was a lucky roll on the crit table, but still!). The tiny flyer rules I actually like a lot; they are an elegant way to "realisticly" handle flight operations, since they have fuel and weapon loads that are limited. Because of this, I just can't see tiny fliers dominating the game as an offensive force in their own right. As to wheter they fit the steam punk theme, that is harder to say. To me, it isn't so much of a glaring problem; I agree that it gives the game a bit of a WW II feel to it, but I would say that doesn't make it inherently non-steam punk.

I have checked it out and am sold on this game, to the point that I am now saving up to buy and costing out what I will collect. This will be my next gaming money sink, not that I need another one.

Ruckdog wrote:Ok! Ok! I should be getting my first ship painted up tomorrow, and I'll put up some pics in my P&M blog if I can.

EDIT: Got my first cruiser all painted up as a test. I am going with a "Great White Fleet" theme:

Do the FSA cruisers have a variable centre mount as the battleship does?

Yep. It can take a shield, rocket, or kinetic generator.

Yanks have the best fleet from what I have heard, though Prussians and Brits have the best looking.

I have been looking on the tactical forums, people are saying the Britannian fleet is weaker an d is only effective in a narrow range of circumstances

Orlanth wrote:Yanks have the best fleet from what I have heard, though Prussians and Brits have the best looking.

I have been looking on the tactical forums, people are saying the Britannian fleet is weaker an d is only effective in a narrow range of circumstances

Considering the South won the American Civil War in the DW universe, I'm sure the FSA would bristle at being characterized as Yankees .

As for me, I've found my FSA fleet does have a few weakness...during my game with a Prussian player last Friday, for example, I lost half of my frigates to boarding actions with his frigates. Also, I found my long-range fire to be mostly ineffective, and my rockets next to useless. However, the higher DR of my cruisers came in handy a couple of times.

Ruckdog wrote:

Orlanth wrote:Yanks have the best fleet from what I have heard, though Prussians and Brits have the best looking.

I have been looking on the tactical forums, people are saying the Britannian fleet is weaker an d is only effective in a narrow range of circumstances

Considering the South won the American Civil War in the DW universe, I'm sure the FSA would bristle at being characterized as Yankees .

As for me, I've found my FSA fleet does have a few weakness...during my game with a Prussian player last Friday, for example, I lost half of my frigates to boarding actions with his frigates. Also, I found my long-range fire to be mostly ineffective, and my rockets next to useless. However, the higher DR of my cruisers came in handy a couple of times.

Never take rockets on any fsa unit that can swap them out for something else.

Yeah, I've pretty much come to the same conclusion.

What does a kinetic generator do?

Long range fire is plenty effective, if you know what and what to shoot at.

Also, rockets are something of a late game closer. Rockets, bombs, and torpedoes are not diminished by hull damage. As such, later in the game, after ships have started taking hull damage (thus reducing AA other gunnery values) rockets will have a much easier time getting through.

Pael wrote:What does a kinetic generator do?

You add 1d6" movement when you activate the generator on the model.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Vertrucio wrote:Long range fire is plenty effective, if you know what and what to shoot at.

Also, rockets are something of a late game closer. Rockets, bombs, and torpedoes are not diminished by hull damage. As such, later in the game, after ships have started taking hull damage (thus reducing AA other gunnery values) rockets will have a much easier time getting through.

Long range fire is not 'plenty effective' if your opponent knows how to beat it. Sure you might put some damage on a frigate here or there, but most folks will roll more AA dice than you will shoot at them.

And just remember, to use those weapons (outside of bombs) you are talking about, you will have to disengage the enemy, as most rockets get to throw fewer and fewer dice the closer you get and most torps won't have any power at rb1.

Ruckdog wrote:

Considering the South won the American Civil War in the DW universe, I'm sure the FSA would bristle at being characterized as Yankees .

Not got the book, they are Rebs? How did it end.

Turns out, the South, under the leadership of President Adams (a fictitious former Senator) penned an alliance with Britania in exchange for access to Uranium Oxide from the Mississippi River valley. With Brtania's help, the North was defeated by 1864 and the USA was recast as the FSA.

I just went down and actually got my hands on some of these minis and they are huge!! The zepplin is amazing!!
My issue now is how am I going to decide my first faction? All of the ships look cool for some reason or another.

I had a question about tournaments, will the boards have to have water and land? Or will that be decided before game? What if I build an all land and air force or build a 50/50 force, and the table is an all water board? Has Spartan addressed this yet?

Pael wrote:I just went down and actually got my hands on some of these minis and they are huge!! The zepplin is amazing!!
My issue now is how am I going to decide my first faction? All of the ships look cool for some reason or another.

I know, it is tough choice! One way to start would be to look at the released renders of the land units for the different factions, and see if any appeal to you more than another. That could be a sort of "tie-breaker" if you need it. If not, there is always the D4 route ...

I had a question about tournaments, will the boards have to have water and land? Or will that be decided before game? What if I build an all land and air force or build a 50/50 force, and the table is an all water board? Has Spartan addressed this yet?

The short answer is no one knows. To the best of my knowledge, Spartan has not run any "official" tournaments for any of its games so far, so all the questions you are asking will really be up to the organizer of the event. At this point, the land models have not been released yet, so any organized play would pretty much revolve around the naval side. Once the land models are out, and people have had a chance to try combined land/naval games, there might be more of a verdict on whether or not it is feasible to run a combined game in a tournament setting. With the forthcoming release of ground box sets, it might not be a bad strategy to get one for your chosen faction; this would give you something approaching a 50/50 split, considering that flyers and airships can be used on both land and sea.

Just the thought of this game gets me excited. That would be a real tactical and strategic challenge trying to plan for a game that could be all water etc.

Are there any planned transports? I haven't had a chance to check out the main page as of yet. I want to know if there will be a large transport ship that can unload tanks etc.

When are the land units supossed to get here?

The land units is how I decided. I can't hold back from having GIANT WALKERS! Burning Sun for me

Pael wrote:Just the thought of this game gets me excited. That would be a real tactical and strategic challenge trying to plan for a game that could be all water etc.

Are there any planned transports? I haven't had a chance to check out the main page as of yet. I want to know if there will be a large transport ship that can unload tanks etc.

When are the land units supossed to get here?

Transports have been mentioned as a future release, although they aren't on the horizon yet. The most complete schedule I've seen is here:

http://www.fathomsreach.com/spartannews/2011-release-schedule-dystopian-wars/

According to that, the land forces will be out in March.

Yesterday I ordered a 'test' miniature, something to add to my shelf if I do nothing else with it. Though I am almost certain to buy into this game now, the more I read about it and look on the forums the more I like it. I have found my cash sink for that first half of 2011, putting off my Vampire Counts army yet again. After being delayed for over three years by Descent, Titans, Warmachine, AT-32, Confrontation and more Warmachine in that order. The miniature I bought was this:



and frankly miniature is not an appropriate word for it. While I bought the Zeppelin from Weyland Games, I find the Spartan games store Mega Bundle especially tempting as it includes the rulebook and cards and a healthy discount. Notice the discount is worldwide so interesting Aussies and others gouged on shipping should check it out and consider buying 1x each carrier with it. The deal is a smart move, as I will not end up collecting four fleets when two or three would do.

Dystopian Wars Mega Bundle


Yes do remember this deal 'only' includes line warships and not carriers, its one of the reasons I chose the zeppelin to buy, it wont interfere with this deal. Also note that the price has held at £125 from December, in fact all prices have held, so Spartan Games has absorbed the VAT rise. I like the naval Battle Groups because they arent really starters as per Games workshop boxset starters, with the carriers in addendum you don't really need much else. I may just add the new studff as it comes out at one box each and the ships are huge. Its a damn good deal frankly, and has gone a long way on selling me this game.

Just had a quick game with my EotBS fleet, suffered a close defeat to Britannia, mostly I suspect because the EotBS have a lot of rockets which are more effective at long range, and I went charging in like an idiot. But there we are, live and learn. We didn't use the full rules either, as me and my friend had basically played a game straight from opening the box, and we couldn't wait to read the rules in sufficient detail before it got too late, but our club's got 4 players at least, the other 2 players are Prussian because nobody wanted water-wheels.
So... can you fire ALL your weapons in one turn? Cuz we had a little confusion over that and we went dutch on the rulebook, it's over at his place now, haven't had a proper look-see, and with exams and all.

GoldenKaos wrote:Just had a quick game with my EotBS fleet, suffered a close defeat to Britannia, mostly I suspect because the EotBS have a lot of rockets which are more effective at long range, and I went charging in like an idiot. But there we are, live and learn. We didn't use the full rules either, as me and my friend had basically played a game straight from opening the box, and we couldn't wait to read the rules in sufficient detail before it got too late, but our club's got 4 players at least, the other 2 players are Prussian because nobody wanted water-wheels.
So... can you fire ALL your weapons in one turn? Cuz we had a little confusion over that and we went dutch on the rulebook, it's over at his place now, haven't had a proper look-see, and with exams and all.

The short answer is Yes.

You can fire all weapons that have a valid target; so for example, a battleship can fire it's main turrets, broadsides, torpedoes, and ack ack all in the same turn. Another point that needs to be made is that on your stat card, where it says "Turret," the number of dice is for only one turret on the model. So, in the case of the KoB battleship, it has 4 turrets and each gets the number of dice specified on the card.

Just saw the new robot render for Ole Henry I think was the name.... AWESOME!!!

Pael wrote:Just saw the new robot render for Ole Henry I think was the name.... AWESOME!!!

Linkity-link :

http://www.spartangames.co.uk/dystopian_preview_page_john_henry.html

Hmm right now its either this game or BFG i cant decide! This seems alot more time and money consuming then BFG but also sounds like a TON of fun!

I would go for this game because of all the awesome stuff planned for it. While BFG is good you will eventually get to a point where you will want something more and then all you will have is unfounded hope that GW will make something for BFG.

Hmm thats what im thinking.. have you played both if so what would you pick?

I am actually doing both since BFG is kind of a staple with my brother but I am going full hearted dystopian wars.

With what they have planned to release this game can only be a pure success. Giant land tanks, flying robot titans, huge naval and air ships!!! What could possibly top that?? Wait what a giant sea squid and more monsters to come!!!!! Sign me up. I cannot curb my enthusiasm.

Compare all that to BFG and I would pick Dystopian hands down each time.

Also with the initial cost to start up Dystopian War will be a lot cheaper and most players will have roughly the same size of force so finding a comparable game will be a lot easier than BFG for newbies.

Hmm you make ma good point are there alot of carriers in the US? or no? is it basically i have to order it online...? your right i was actually kind of surprised at the prices.. (not as bad as i thought it would be)

Well, I would say check with your local stores. What part of Indiana are you in? I grew up in Northwest Indiana myself, and it is pretty slim pickings for game stores in that area. Remember, even if your store doesn't stock it, they might be able to order for you through their distributors.

I live just north of Indianapolis. good idea ill have to find out i REALLY want to get my hands on the rule book!

IHeart, the Mega-bundle is worthwhile even if you are not yet sure. You get all you need to play, a very good discount and free shipping worldwide. You can sell off two or more of the included Starter Fleets to recover much of your money to local players who collect those fleets.

Or you might have all four fleets grow on you, combined with the low general price and end up collecting all four.

Oh and by the way, thats how you get your rulebook and card deck, its included!

IHEARTLARGEBLASTTEMPLATES wrote:I live just north of Indianapolis. good idea ill have to find out i REALLY want to get my hands on the rule book!

Ah, you probably live near my sister then (Carmel). Small world! If I remember, there was only one major store in Indy, but it is clear on the south side, isn't it?

Haha yes very near! well yeah the only one that i really go to/ know of is The Fashion Mall Game Preserve. I dont think it carries DW but i still havent made it in to look, but online it looks like a no.... :( (Were getting CRAZY snow here) haha

I would just ask your store to carry it I bet they'd be happy to order for ya. So far only one local store carries it around here but they plan on getting all of the minis.

Ebay also has some pretty good deals.

I'm going to pick my stuff up tomorrow

I opened the Blazing Sun box, and I can't believe how detailed this models are. The fact that there are no miscasts for such tiny details I find pretty amazing. I found a few bubbles but only on the bottoms of the models, where they don't matter at all. Flash clean up was a breeze.

The box set comes nicely wrapped in bubble tape, comes with cards, templates and tokens printed on nice glossy paper. The paper is pretty thick.

I'm really impressed with the quality of the product, and I'm excited to start painting!

I know I became hooked once I saw an actual model it was amazing.

Product quality can swing from box to box. They use silicone molds (we know this because my buddy got a ship with huge chunks of silicone mold adhered to the resin.

If you're got an early run model, it's very probably near perfect. If you end up with a later run model, it probably has more defects just as the mold has broken down.

What's nice is that many of the models come in clear plastic blisters so you can eyeball the quality. For starter boxes, that's not as doable.

sourclams wrote:Product quality can swing from box to box. They use silicone molds (we know this because my buddy got a ship with huge chunks of silicone mold adhered to the resin.

If you're got an early run model, it's very probably near perfect. If you end up with a later run model, it probably has more defects just as the mold has broken down.

What's nice is that many of the models come in clear plastic blisters so you can eyeball the quality. For starter boxes, that's not as doable.

This is what I feared would happen.

sourclams wrote:Product quality can swing from box to box. They use silicone molds (we know this because my buddy got a ship with huge chunks of silicone mold adhered to the resin.

If you're got an early run model, it's very probably near perfect. If you end up with a later run model, it probably has more defects just as the mold has broken down.

What's nice is that many of the models come in clear plastic blisters so you can eyeball the quality. For starter boxes, that's not as doable.

Ehhh, not quite. Spartan replaces molds on a daily basis, so it is not like if you miss the first wave, you are SOL. Bad ships like the ones you mention (I've seen them as well) are just due to a particular mold being used for one too many batches before being replaced, I would guess. The mold replacement scheme means that quality should theoretically be maintained indefinitely, although it appears that a few leakers are getting through QC. On the fleet boxes, I would say go for it; if you wind up with any lemons in your fleet starter, I have no doubt Spartan will replace them for you.

I bought three Dystopian Wars carriers from Firestorm Games.

Two out of three were faulty in some way, one was miscast, another had pieces missing. I contacted Neil, on the spartan forums and he promised to replace them. In fact the third was also slightly miscast with the top deck of my FSA carrier uneven, but I didn't consider it bad enough to complain.

I will say this for them, they don't play all evasive on customer service. Saying that I have had good results from GW too on this regard.

Played a game yesterday as EotBS against a Prussian fleet. Most of my frigates got captured as prizes. Ouch. Gonna stay away with big ships and deck them with overwhelming firepower from now on.

Practically everything in the Prussian list is a boarding platform.
Don't just keep an eye on the big stuff, rocket marines can appear in large numbers from bombers and frigates too.

My Prussian opponent pretty much remembers the moment when he realized the his boarding was more effective than his gunnery. And then he began to win...

Oh, and if you're ever playing Brittannia, either take a lot of flying stuff or something with a lot of CC, the Brits love their torpedoes.

Still, well looking forwards to getting a Squid!

Just a quick rule I wanna clarify - in range band 1, your primary weapons get less accurate with a -1 modifier to hit, right? Meaning hitting on 5,6 where you'd be hitting on 4,5,6 without modifiers. The rulebook, being the sodding nightmare it is, was slightly unclear here, and we had arguments.....

Is there a rundown on how the factions play?

Daba wrote:Is there a rundown on how the factions play?

Each fleet has oddball units that are contrary to their own design doctrine or do unique things.

Federated States of America

Ship design: Paddle steamers with low to the waterline hulls. - FSA ships are harder to hit because they are low to the waterline, the paddle wheels also make th ships able to out-turn anyone else but are on only moderate speed. The FSA special design is a flying mecha, which is cheap and potent, we can expect to see a lot of them soon.

Weapon doctrine: Guns and lots of them. The FSA can out-shoot anyone, particularly at range, and almost all their guns are turreted for wide arcs of fire. FSA carriers have few supplementary defences so they are vulnerable but considerably cheaper.

Tactics: Cheap carriers means the FSA can try for air superiority if they want, however most players do not and try instead for massive long range bombardment superiority instead, notably by deploying multiples of the excellent FSA battleship. FSA designs have no weaknesses and simple to apply strengths , rely on range or wide fire arcs to apply firepower. This makes them easy to play and win with.

Prussian Empire

Ship design: Sleek modern hulls with relatively few weapon systems. Prussians enjoy a higher technology base and a better understanding of the science of electricity, expect to se a lot of cabling even to the main gun turrets. These ships are fast. The Prussians like airships too, including carrier airships, with lots of electricity of course. The unique Prussian design is a germanic warlord titan.

Weapon doctrine: Prussians like to have good ship defences and electrically powered large turrets, but what they really like to do is carry large marine compliments for boarding actions and outfit anything with 'Tesla Coils' which fire lightning at the enemy and is a technology unique to them.

Tactics: Lightning is short ranged, boarding soldiers need to get in range also t use their rocket packs, the main gun turrets are not short ranged but don't hurt for getting in closer. Prussians are fast especially thier lighter units. This makes Prussian tactics rather straightforward, to excuse the pun. The titan is less impressive than it looks, solid stats and a terror on land though less so in water despite a few gadgets it has which make is a good submarine killer.

Empire of the Blazing Sun (Japan)

Ship design: Enclosed hulls oddly resembling steam trains, though what you see is not all steam boiler but gun decks. Blazing Suns have solid ships, as easy to hit as anyone elses (except FSA) but harder to land a critical hit on. Defences are not as good as the first two fleets but acceptable. The unique Blazing Suns design is a robotic squid.

Weapon doctrine: As Blazing Suns ships are compartmentalized they carry a lot of disparate weapon systems including guns torpedoes and rockets, this can lead to problems in coordinating fire due to restricted fire arcs, however if you do get the guns in they hit as hard as FSA but have the versatility of toys the Britannians have.

Tactics: Considered weaker by some, they are not they are just harder to use than FSA and Prussiains both of which follow simple to follow albeit diametrically opposite tactical doctrines. Blazing Suns if handled well have everything going for them, range speed firepower and an answer to any attack type. But you need to play them well to get the most out of them. dont know much about the squid as yet, though ir purports to be effective.


Kingdom of Britannia

Ship design: The closest to a Victorian battlefleet, plenty of gun turrets big solid hulls boilers girders and rivets everywhere. Standard steampunk stuff really. The Britannian special units are submarines.

Weapon doctrine: The Britannians love their torpedoes, pretty much everything has them, in large numbers. Torpedoes being a system buried deep in the hull carry on firing right until; the ship sinks whereas other gun systems degrade with fire. This technically can keep the Britannians in the fight longer than anyone else. On top of this the Britannians have more large gun turrets than anyone, using one more per design class than the maximum of any other fleet. However British guns while having an impressive number of barrels have an unimpressive rate of fire meaning individually each turret is worth considerably less than those of other races, also Britannic torpedoes have long arming times making them useless at short ranges and being torpedoes have no effect on land or air forces.
This plus a general lack of anti air defences and poor marine compliments means that British ships are at best paper tigers and at worst deathtraps. All is not lost however , some of their unreleased vessels cover all the above weaknesses and are arguably the best units in the game.

Tactics. Technically all rounders Brtiannians suffer from 'bad codex syndrome' some of the units in the fleet lists are appalling however others are excellent. Britannians can win even with the weak stuff but have problems with air heavy lists, later Britannians will be a very tough to beat but will undoubtably suffer from 'cookie cutter' lists as everyone takes plenty of the odd few subchoices that are good designs.

Most notably of these are the Britannian escort, destroyer and drsadnought. every faction gets one desifgn of each. The destoyer is an upgunned escort sized vessel, most are powerful but the Britannian version especially so. as with most britaniic designs its torpedo based so spartan might have thought that it would simply be one amongst many torpedo vessels, however as it outclasses practically everything else many Brtannitc players are considering replacing most of their line fleet with destroyers.
Evey faction has an 'escort' which is an escort size vessel with supllementary air and anti submarine ddfences that it can lend out to surrounding ships. All are good the Britannian one is simply better asnd far more needed. This makes the design essential.
Every faction also has a dreadnought, each dreadnought costs about 50% more than thev next most expensive thing (a battleship) and is downright nasty. The Britannian design is the nastiest of the lot, at no extra price and as the Brtiannic battleship and cruiser are both laughably poor designs we can expect the dreadnought to be a staple of Britannian fleets in the near future, backed up with a horded of destroyers. In fact while their is nothing wrong with Britannian frigates except that they are overshadowed by destroyers the only component in the original release to have a guaranteed place in the eventual Britannic fleet is the bomber, which is admittedly a very good piece.
This is the only fleet with which I am disappointed with Spartan Games games design, for a new sysem three out of four lists right isn't bad.

Hmmm,
EotBS = awesome long range + hard to kill outright
Prussia = awesome in boarding + fast
Brittania = lots of guns and torpedoes
FSA = seem to have good long-range firepower as well as good defense

Should point out I haven't played against an FSA opponent yet, and Brittania are quite hard to grasp, they're a bit of an all-round force really. They have many, many guns compared to the rest, in simple number of turrets and torpedoes and so forth. FSA can use paddle ships to manouver better to shoot at you, have good DR, while the EotBS have probably the best frigates as well as the best medium bombers in the game, plus fire rockets to cause raging fires and whittle down those pesky Boarding crews. Likewise, the Prussians' teslas are good at depleting crew members to weaken them for the boarding assault as well as fast ships to get them there.
EotBS and Prussia are the easiest to summarize, take the former to be Tau and the latter to be Orks. If we continue with the 40k analogy, Britannia = Space Marines and FSA = IG (maybe), but Britannia is a hard one to get ahold of. If we go by favoured weaponry, then EotBS have their incendiary rockets and superior turrets, Prussians have teslas, Britannia is all about torpedoes and FSA is about a lot of guns, and more usefully the ability to turn those guns quite easily towards their intended target.
Just going by the rulebook on the FSA, and by experience on the rest. It's hard to score a critical hit against EotBS and hard to get a normal hit on FSA. So... yeah. My club all (well, 4 out of 16) just bought their respective battleforce equivalent box, so we all have the same fleet in the number and classes of ships but the faction variation makes so much difference to the tactics used by each general (or admiral I suppose).

Nice breakdown, Orlanth! I find that quite helpful, as I haven't had the time to dig into the book and disect the different fleets to the extent that I want too.

Not to kinda pee on the parade, but there's some real competitive issues with the game 'when you come down to it', with its current model line (which I figure is worth bringing up as we're now into 'how do factions play').

Boarding actions are much more effective at crippling ships of all classes than gunnery, in general.

Flyers can become, effectively, immune to most gunnery, only hittable on 6's by ascending into the clouds--something that they can do at will.

The 'big flyers' (Japanese sky carrier, Prussian Zeppelin) carry a huge allotment of boarding marines at a pretty low points cost.

Put that together and there's a horrible metashift to Death From Above armies that are both horribly resilient and have hugely effective offense. Oh, and they're carrier ships, so they also come with 6 Fighter, Divebomber, or Torpedo bomber airplanes.

The only reason I bring this up is because I bought into a WWI-esque naval game to find out that the massive ranged gunfights I was expecting had a far greater tendency to be decided at close range in boarding actions. The ships look like pre-dreadnoughts but the play was more like Age of Sail.

I still had fun with the system, but there's some real imbalances and the net-listing potential is rife. Just a heads up for those considering the game before spending.

sourclams wrote:Not to kinda pee on the parade, but there's some real competitive issues with the game 'when you come down to it', with its current model line (which I figure is worth bringing up as we're now into 'how do factions play').

Boarding actions are much more effective at crippling ships of all classes than gunnery, in general.

Flyers can become, effectively, immune to most gunnery, only hittable on 6's by ascending into the clouds--something that they can do at will.

The 'big flyers' (Japanese sky carrier, Prussian Zeppelin) carry a huge allotment of boarding marines at a pretty low points cost.

Put that together and there's a horrible metashift to Death From Above armies that are both horribly resilient and have hugely effective offense. Oh, and they're carrier ships, so they also come with 6 Fighter, Divebomber, or Torpedo bomber airplanes.

The only reason I bring this up is because I bought into a WWI-esque naval game to find out that the massive ranged gunfights I was expecting had a far greater tendency to be decided at close range in boarding actions. The ships look like pre-dreadnoughts but the play was more like Age of Sail.

I still had fun with the system, but there's some real imbalances and the net-listing potential is rife. Just a heads up for those considering the game before spending.

I have to agree with this, on the Spartan Forums some of us are trying to get the developers to errata the game before the imbalances get out of hand.

Orlanth wrote:I have to agree with this, on the Spartan Forums some of us are trying to get the developers to errata the game before the imbalances get out of hand.

If they do, I think it has the potential to be a truly great game. But never before on the forums have I seen the 'just use tactics/skill>list' apologist mentality that I experienced reading through the SG forums. Since retooling the game for boarding actions to be less decisive and gunnery moreso, and to bring the airships>sea ships dynamic back in line would require literally retooling the whole game, I really don't have my hopes up for the future of SG in my area. Great game potential, good models, but definitely borked for quasi-competitive playstyle.

sourclams wrote:
But never before on the forums have I seen the 'just use tactics/skill>list' apologist mentality that I experienced reading through the SG forums.

You should have tried the Rackham forums, they had zampolits to decry critics of game balance. I cant tell which killed the company more, Rackhams unrelaibility to stockists, Chinese manufacturers shenanigans, or the blatant failure to accept that some portions of the ruleset were unplayable (and had a number of people walking away from the first game).

sourclams wrote:
Since retooling the game for boarding actions to be less decisive and gunnery moreso, and to bring the airships>sea ships dynamic back in line would require literally retooling the whole game, I really don't have my hopes up for the future of SG in my area. Great game potential, good models, but definitely borked for quasi-competitive playstyle.

How true. Been trying that wake up call on the SG forums.

Privateer Press didnt break into the market long term because of awesome miniatures, though that helped, but because they got a reputation for playability and game balance from the outset.

Could the game balance issue be caused mainly by the lack of all of the available miniatures? From what Orlanth was saying about future releases the miniatures that are in the pipeline have the potential to change the game.

sourclams wrote:Not to kinda pee on the parade, but there's some real competitive issues with the game 'when you come down to it', with its current model line (which I figure is worth bringing up as we're now into 'how do factions play').

Boarding actions are much more effective at crippling ships of all classes than gunnery, in general.

Flyers can become, effectively, immune to most gunnery, only hittable on 6's by ascending into the clouds--something that they can do at will.

The 'big flyers' (Japanese sky carrier, Prussian Zeppelin) carry a huge allotment of boarding marines at a pretty low points cost.

Put that together and there's a horrible metashift to Death From Above armies that are both horribly resilient and have hugely effective offense. Oh, and they're carrier ships, so they also come with 6 Fighter, Divebomber, or Torpedo bomber airplanes.

The only reason I bring this up is because I bought into a WWI-esque naval game to find out that the massive ranged gunfights I was expecting had a far greater tendency to be decided at close range in boarding actions. The ships look like pre-dreadnoughts but the play was more like Age of Sail.

I still had fun with the system, but there's some real imbalances and the net-listing potential is rife. Just a heads up for those considering the game before spending.

This is generally what happens when you take a ruleset written for age of sail combat and adapt it to something else. With a few minor differences, large parts of the rules were taken verbatim from Uncharted Seas (which is awesome), and Firestorm Armada (which is pretty much Uncharted... IN SPACE!).

I have to agree, I have noticed how much boarding seems to dominate DW. It seems to do so to a much greater degree than in Firestorm Armada, in fact, due to the higher boarding strength and lack of a CP stat to add to the defensive dice pool. Also, the AA rules seem to make the tiny token flyers useful only for taking out other tiny flyers or finishing off the odd crippled frigate. Anything that is healthy seems to be able to drive them off with AA too easily.

Dive/torpedo bombers are very effective in fives, you can be rolling up to 15 attacks per wave, and its hard to abort that many.

They are very good (fresh) cruiser killers and can kill a half hull battleship.

@ Orlanth's rundown

Hmm, it's a bit of a shame Britannia has the imbalances as I like the look of their fleet.

Other than that, Prussians seem to have the play style I generally like.

The models of Britannia and them being 'all rounder' might make them my pick though.

I might have a look at some of the games at my local club when I next go and see.

Orlanth wrote:Dive/torpedo bombers are very effective in fives, you can be rolling up to 15 attacks per wave, and its hard to abort that many.

They are very good (fresh) cruiser killers and can kill a half hull battleship.

I have not been able to pull this off, unfortunately. I usually see at least 2 if not 3 tokens aborted/shot down, giving me only 6-9 attacks. Even if I get enough hits to score a point of damage, this is then negated with concussion charges :(. This, of course, assumes that I can get all 5 bombers into attack position; it seems like most of the time they end up getting pounced on by the enemy's fighters or shot up by a passing bomber. As for a attacking a BB...around my FLGS, battleships just about always have a 3-4 strong CAP to prevent them from getting boarded and captured. These fighters make it that much harder for my torpedo planes to get through.

Ruckdog wrote:

Orlanth wrote:Dive/torpedo bombers are very effective in fives, you can be rolling up to 15 attacks per wave, and its hard to abort that many.

They are very good (fresh) cruiser killers and can kill a half hull battleship.

I have not been able to pull this off, unfortunately. I usually see at least 2 if not 3 tokens aborted/shot down, giving me only 6-9 attacks. Even if I get enough hits to score a point of damage, this is then negated with concussion charges :(. This, of course, assumes that I can get all 5 bombers into attack position; it seems like most of the time they end up getting pounced on by the enemy's fighters or shot up by a passing bomber. As for a attacking a BB...around my FLGS, battleships just about always have a 3-4 strong CAP to prevent them from getting boarded and captured. These fighters make it that much harder for my torpedo planes to get through.

You need to be running the correct bomber type for your faction, and have no enemy CAP around. CAP cant be everywhere and of course ties up a flyer contingent preventing them from offensive use. If the best ships have CAP then swiftly bomb/torpedo some frigates and recall to carrier to reload and sortie again. Send them against capital targets in the late game when hull points are reduced or after a shredded defences critical (which is like rolling the ship in honey and setting it outside for the wasps). Dive bombers can hang back move very quick to exploit such a weakness.

Also Prussian dive bombers are particularly nasty because you have to reroll successful hits on them with ack ack, so they tend to get a good volume of bombs in.

Pael wrote:Could the game balance issue be caused mainly by the lack of all of the available miniatures? From what Orlanth was saying about future releases the miniatures that are in the pipeline have the potential to change the game.

To some extent yes, but there are some quirks as models come out that will simply make the game worse.

Submarines, for example. Marine boarders can't be targeted by AA, and Subs that travel underwater (can only be hit on 6s by gunnery) will again be some of the best boarders out there.

The subs also have rams so screening movement with smaller ships to force them to engage early won't really work.

What's really insane is that there's nothing that prevents marine boarders from boarding airships. I can conceptualize a flock of Boba Fetts flying down out of a Death Star, but Gungan Commandos flying up into one.... that's just weird.

I would really like to like this game, but their rules devs seem intent on not allowing that to happen.

sourclams wrote:

Pael wrote:Could the game balance issue be caused mainly by the lack of all of the available miniatures? From what Orlanth was saying about future releases the miniatures that are in the pipeline have the potential to change the game.

To some extent yes, but there are some quirks as models come out that will simply make the game worse.

Submarines, for example. Marine boarders can't be targeted by AA, and Subs that travel underwater (can only be hit on 6s by gunnery) will again be some of the best boarders out there.

The subs also have rams so screening movement with smaller ships to force them to engage early won't really work.

What's really insane is that there's nothing that prevents marine boarders from boarding airships. I can conceptualize a flock of Boba Fetts flying down out of a Death Star, but Gungan Commandos flying up into one.... that's just weird.

I would really like to like this game, but their rules devs seem intent on not allowing that to happen.

I was really impressed with the idea of boarding attacks from air to surface and vice versa since all of the troops have rocket packs. Reminds me of the old game Tribes where jumppacking about was the only way to travel. Also do bombers have ap? If so that throws in a whole area of assaults.

Almost all units have some sort of AP.

This makes diving and air models really, really exceptional at the most effective ship killing method of boarding. It also means that people take a lot of fighter cap to counter boarders and other people take lots of fighters to kill the other fighters. Ad Nauseum.

Why should I think 36" shells would kill stuff when I just send my flying marines over to capture and kill your units?

I would expect more boarding actions to exist in a wooden sailing ship game than a 'steam' ship combat game.

I must have missed those epic boarding action depictions at the Battle of Jutland.

Are people using the correct methods of shooting then? On the stat card it shows the number of dice rolled per model or is it per wepon displayed on said model? If it is the latter than ships should be dead in the water well before boarding actions become prevelant.

As an exception I am just asking questions not arguing as I have only read the rules and not played yet. Please don't take it wrong. If I am out of bounds sorry and I will cease.

It's per weapon plus half that value for every additional weapon (battleships tend to average about 15 dice per volley in RB2) but flyers or divers that are "obscured" can only be hit on 6's. So 15 dice broadsides score a max of 4-6 or so. The big flyers can shrug that pretty easily.

Hmmm interesting, couple of questions then.

Can you combine fire with other ships? i.e. two battleships shooting at the same target.
(I just answered my own question, its an activation sequence not a full force turn game. LOL)

What about the broadsides of some ships? i.e. the Prussian Zepplin has something like 8 tesla coils on its side. That would be max dice for one then 2.5 times that number for the total dice pool.

You can only link fire with vessels/vehicles of the same squadron. Battleships come in squadrons of 1, so you couldn't link fire. About the Prussian Blimp, (I haven't got my rulebook with me so this is ... yeah, guessing) but if it's a broadside I doubt it. Turrets, maybe, broadsides .... maybe not.


Another thing a clubmate of mine has noticed is that they've put up an errata for rockets on the spartangames forums. Attached tiny flies can contribute ack ack to shoot down rockets aimed at a parent unit. They decided that rockets were too powerful (rubbish) because their AD does not decrease along with hull damage, and will therefore become more useful in the late game. This is balderdash because rockets get better the further away you are, in the 'late game' you'd probably be in very close range to each other. I suppose the ploy they assume people will do it some kind of drive-by tactic where you move forwards, do broadsides/gunnery/ack ack whilst your hull is still intact and then once you take a battering, you RUN AWAY and shoot at them with rockets. It makes very little sense and will be of no use against the Prussians, who will have boarded you, taken your ship and women for a prize and then caught up with your fleeing ships with their superior engines. And then boarded them. The errata they need to put out, as many here have mentioned, is some kind of downside to obscured/submerged models, because if you can, I can see no reason not to.

Actually that seems to happen a ot with FSA armies, that or they hold back their carriers from the main combat and then finish of the rest the eniemies fleet as the smoke clears from the initial engagement.

It's still pants, as an EotBS player, a lot of my advantages are in Incendiary Rockets...

Pael wrote:Actually that seems to happen a ot with FSA armies, that or they hold back their carriers from the main combat and then finish of the rest the eniemies fleet as the smoke clears from the initial engagement.

Yeah, but to be fair the FSA carrier wouldn't survive long or be able to do a whole lot on the front line at the start of a battle. It just isn't heavily armed and armored enough for that.

I love the models!!! Here is a link to my painting thread for anyone interested ... Behind th Mask Presents Dystopian Wars!!!. I love the models, and I have also found them to be awesome to paint. Completely different from the norm, a nice change of pace.

Behind th Mask wrote:I love the models!!! Here is a link to my painting thread for anyone interested ... Behind th Mask Presents Dystopian Wars!!!. I love the models, and I have also found them to be awesome to paint. Completely different from the norm, a nice change of pace.

That has to be one of the nicest looking EotBS fleets I've seen yet!

You definitely seem to have hit on a common thread of discussion both hear and over that the Spartan forums: The minis for this game are fantastic, but there are a couple of issues with the rules that need to be addressed.

Im just waiting for the fleet carrire for EotBS to be sent to my fulags (Friendly unlocal games shop)

What paint:water ratio do you use with your airbrush?

I finally managed to get my FSA fleet all painted up! Take a look:



You can find more pics on my P&M blog (link in my sig).

Those look great, the brown and green look really nice together.

Finally got to play a game of dystopian wars myself. Was a 3 way fight with Prussians, British, and Blazing Sun. I'm playing the Prussians, so I have fixed arcs everywhere. That will take some getting used to. We never did try boarding, so I'll give that a go next time.

Picked Britannia in the end and played a game vs. FSA, sans the bombers (which neither of us had based up yet, while the ships are good to go for a test run straight from the box).

It felt like I had to work a lot harder to kill anything, and I ended up losing that game.

Is the carrier for KoB any good as I might pick that up soon?

In raw numbers, it's okay, but long ranged torpedoes are a pain in the ass, especially on a profile as large as the Carrier.

Remember that if part of your channel is blocked, you're at half AD. That means that if there's anything--anything--interfering with your ~3" wide firing channel, you take a significant penalty to your firepower.

It's a large meat shield, generally able to absorb a lot of firepower while still flinging torpedoes. It's not immortal, however, and still very weak versus boarding attempts--especially after having taken a crit or two which is easily achieved with relatively low DR/CR.

Frigates can really screw with its existence, either blocking torpedo channels or linking fire to do respectable damage and boarding to eliminate it entirely.

If you're searching for a Brit model to make up for your weak battleship, it's not the Carrier. You want to focus on fleet compositions built around the bombers and Dreadnoughts in order to avoid uphill battles against the FSA, which will generally outperform your Battleships and Cruisers with ease.

Sorry to re post but i was hoping i might get some more traffic here

I'm looking at jumping ship to Dystopian wars with GW's recent stupidity and with some money issues i'm looking at moving to Dystopian wars and i was wondering if people could answer me some questions.

What are the armies like , i was looking at Britannia and Prussia.
what are the rules like?
Are there any set paint schemes like ,are there ones in the book or do you have to do your own ?

Thanks a bundle!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/345975.page#0 have a look there

Nice looking models for the Blazing sun , what are the models like to paint?

I have been waiting for my painting station so I could start painting them, with any luck should be here tomorrow. the resin has little flash to remove.

I also like the look of Dystopia Wars as there are a few guys at our club who play. I was thinking of going for the American fleet mainly because I haven't see one at the club, Might even sell my Tau to fund it if it is any good.

Warris wrote:I also like the look of Dystopia Wars as there are a few guys at our club who play. I was thinking of going for the American fleet mainly because I haven't see one at the club, Might even sell my Tau to fund it if it is any good.

There was me thinking that you were going to sell your Tau to fund Necrons lol.

Another GW price hike, Great Maker should be a law banning it.

Miss Dee wrote:Another GW price hike, Great Maker should be a law banning it.

Hopefully they will have a bankruptcy scare and may reduce prices and commit the ultimate sin and advertise.

Alright got a britannia fleet box as we have a couple guys playing this at club. One plays FSA and the other plays Prussia, currently the prussia guy is beating face. I hear that my ships in the fleet box are sub par compared to what the others get. Any suggestions to beating the prussian guy (who I'm playing next week) with the brits.

Carrier is always useful and subs.

we're just using the stuff form the fleet box, so yeah all my crappy units vs all his strong ones

the problem isn't that the KoB ships are weaker, it's that they aren't as easy to use.

Prussians bum rush you, knocking your AP down with Tesla, closing where their guns are the strongest and finishing you off with some Boarding.

FSA sit back and pound away at you and its tough to get to grips with them when you're not designed to close either, but you have too.

KoB (and EotBS) are much trickier and require steady hands in their use. You have to move your ships laterally as much as straight up and down to keep your opponents in your "sweet spots" which is RB 2.

You have to select your targets based on who's where, not at the one target you want to damage.

One of the nice things about DyW is that as vehicles get damaged, they get less effective. So putting a few HP damage on a Prussian Battleship can be a good thing, but if it moves out of your RB 2, you should probably move onto another target.

And, kill those Frigates ASAP....

Dainty Twerp wrote:the problem isn't that the KoB ships are weaker, it's that they aren't as easy to use.

Mathematically, the KoB battleship is actually weaker. A side-by-side of the KoB BB versus the FSA BB makes this painfully evident. Weaker gunnery at range, weaker defenses in general but especially with regards to boarding, at a higher point cost.

When you throw in the mechanic that subtracts dice from each turret before pooling AD, it lags further. At its optimal performance in RB2, the KoB BB could throw 16 dice at a single target with linked fire. If you take 2 HP in damage, your RB2 firepower drops to 11. After 2 damage, you lose 5 AD. FSA battleship by comparison throws 15 dice in RB2. After 2 damage, its firepower goes to 12. 2 damage, 3 AD lost. This gives the KoB BB the least longevity out of all the BBs, especially since its only real role is as a fire support platform.

The Battleship has weaker stats overall, but what really kills it is the multiple turrets.

Yeah, the BB for the Brits is a bit lacking, however when the dreadnoughts come out all brit players will get one, that thing is really good. 6 turrets for no drop in fire power, elite crew and prussian level AP? Yes please.

The way my Warhammer 40k going with both Tau and Orks, Dystopia wars is looking a strong option LOL. I will poss go for the FSA as I like to play a "sit back" game

Just had my first game as the KoB, and I ahve tos ay the "painful weaknesses" are not as bad as the internet would make out. My opponent played PE and basically attempted to flank with his frigates and rush the centre with his capitals. To counter I sent the frigates out and hammered the BB and some of his frigates with linked gunnery and torps. As he dealt with the frigates I crossed the T with the capitals and focused fire on his ships one at a time to bring them down. I traded most of my frigates for his whole fleet.

My thoughts on the brits

There's no set way to play them like the other factions, you have to use superior positioning and screen your capitals well because they are quite fragile in comparison. The torpedoes are really good.

If I had to sum them up I'd say cross the T at RB2 and focus fire. Cluster your capitals and screen with your frigates.

Anyone got an estimate for army tiers yet?

Air > Navy > Land.

Dreadnoughts > non-Dreadnoughts.

If you make an air superiority list whose only ship support is Dreadnoughts with escorts and frigates, you're probably on the right track, regardless of faction.

Daba wrote:Anyone got an estimate for army tiers yet?

Well, it depends. If you are looking at just the starter boxes or starter boxes + carriers, it seems to me that Prussia leads the way, with Blazing Sun and FSA about tied in the middle, and Brittania bringing up the rear. The thing is, as Sourclams points out, the new ships due out this year could radically change that equation, not to mention the new factions that are on the way (Antarctica, France, Russia, and Turkey, I believe).

sourclams wrote:If you make an air superiority list whose only ship support is Dreadnoughts with escorts and frigates, you're probably on the right track, regardless of faction.

This =

Seriously though, I agree that the type of list you describe would pretty much dominate, thanks in no small part to the obscured flyer rules; it is pretty much a fully min-maxed composition.

Ok, so overall for the factions that have rules what would help boost for Brittania?

You got the card deck?

Miss Dee wrote:You got the card deck?

I have, I recommend you get a deck. The cards add a lot to the game without complicating it.

I got mine, minis not painted still waiting for Wayland to get the foam trays

Alright, I've played a few more games as the birts and definitely can't wait for some new stuff to come out

So far however I've been impressed with the bombers, the frigates and gunships, holy god gunships. These things are amazing in every sense of the word. BB level torps, higher defenses than cruisers, more HP as well. In the game I used them they sunk a cruiser first activation and did most of the work in sinking another cruiser and a battleship. Still lost because my opponent had that damn Zeppelin and I did not. So yeah, air beats land.

Anyone else think boarding is a bit OP? Its not affected by damage and has a massive threat range (17" for a prussian frigate squadron, who can easily take out a brit BB) and then you get massive VPs for it.

Just got me some EotBS Scout Gyro (medium) fliers. They are fun to use, and I think I'll be going for two squadrons of three. They're also like the only EotBS models out by now that don't have fixed firing broadside arcs, which is cool, because I was getting tired of having to twiddle the damn things until the arc was just right. Got in sweet game with them the other day as well, when the two primary weapons got a barrage that was only 2 hits off a double-critical on an undamaged Prussian battleship. The thing rolled a 12 on the table and disappeared into the ... well at our club we say into the warp, because who takes this seriously? But yeah, good, good fun. I also realized that EotBS frigates can link their broadsides with their turrets and then link them with the rest of their squadron. Now, with a full squadron of four, max firepower of a volley like that (range band 1) is 21 dice. 21! Their battleship could only manage that if it was hitting on 5's for God's sake!
Well, other than that, any advice with what to do with my cruisers? They have good fixed broadsides and rockets, but I dunno what to do with the torpedoes in the front, and they're a little faster than normal, but I dunno what I could so with them tbh, may just switch them out for the fliers or something....


And yes, EmilCrane, boarding is OP.

how many in the pack?

So does anyone know how to actually counter prussian frigates simply motoring on up and boarding you? Its getting annoying that I can't stop all of them. It doesn't help that in a squadron they have enough AP to take out my battleship in one go.

escorts as the british. escorts are your friend as the KoB BB is worst against boarders. and focus fire against the frigates if your PE opponent is a bumrush boarder.

Miss Dee wrote:how many in the pack?

Assuming you meant the medium fliers, 2 in a pack.

EmilCrane wrote:So does anyone know how to actually counter prussian frigates simply motoring on up and boarding you? Its getting annoying that I can't stop all of them. It doesn't help that in a squadron they have enough AP to take out my battleship in one go.

You've just discovered why the British battleship is regarded as 'bad' by the DW community.

The only advice I can give you is 'play the dreadnought'.

You're never going to get the mileage you want out of your battleship against either FSA or Prussians. Both factions have the means to either shoot its rather meagre defensive stats to death or simply board and overwhelm its pathetic AP/AA scores.

sourclams wrote:
You've just discovered why the British battleship is regarded as 'bad' by the DW community.

By SOME in the DW community. I'd hate to troll over the arguments into this forum from the SG one, but the British BB isn't that bad, it just has to be played more carefully than say an FSA battleship that can keep running away or a Prussian BB that HAS to close, if you ram it down your opponents throat you're begging for it to get boarded, and its role is more of blasting things smaller than itself. Having said that, i've proxied a number of Dreadnaught + BB lists and have had huge success with this, particularly since a few of my opponents read the forums and have been infected with the 'KOB BB is garbage' syndrome until i've show them otherwise .

But yes, match it up with a DN, give it two shields, and have it screen the DN from the opponents heaviest hitter and launch torps and shoot the remaining turrets at immediate threats to the DN. perfect tagteam, and saves me points on giving the Majesty DN some shield gens.

The Brittainian BB is bad for it's cost because of having only 6AP, the same as the cruisers of the FSA, who aren't the boarding faction but with BB prices.

Another problem is it has low defense, unless you sacrifice firepower making it ineffective where other BBs have a dedicated slot for shields or sacrifice something less important than a turret (if you would sacrifice the broadsides or a torpedo line for shields, rather than a main turret wouldn't you do that instead?).

If it costs the same, but you have to 'play more carefully' with it while it doesn't yield bigger rewards it is by definition worse.

EmilCrane wrote:So does anyone know how to actually counter prussian frigates simply motoring on up and boarding you? Its getting annoying that I can't stop all of them. It doesn't help that in a squadron they have enough AP to take out my battleship in one go.

Ack Ack is your friend, hence CPTPromotable's comment on escorts, Use link fire with enough escorts and you can probably nerf the AP of the frigates enough to make it less of a threat.

As for the KoB BB, it isn't so much a terrible ship, it just requires more finesse than the others factions, where as the FSA and PE ones can just point and fire (or whatever, you know what I mean) the KoB (and to a lesser extent the EotBS) BB needs a bit of care and strategy when moving (namely on the EotBS ship, you need to keep in the front arc until you are right up in their grill, then turn around and unleash broadsidey goodness).

I really need to get some more games in (have only played 2 games so far), speaking of which, anyone in Cwmbran/Cardiff/Ebbw Vale who wants a game feel free to PM me.

Why are there no players in somerset other than me?

Miss Dee wrote:Why are there no players in somerset other than me?

I know that feeling, the only person I know well enough who plays (who incidentally got me into the game in the first place) has just moved back to Kent.

I find non-GW miniatures games are represented very poorly in Wales in general, especially the type of areas I come from

Daba wrote:The Brittainian BB is bad for it's cost because of having only 6AP, the same as the cruisers of the FSA, who aren't the boarding faction but with BB prices.

Another problem is it has low defense, unless you sacrifice firepower making it ineffective where other BBs have a dedicated slot for shields or sacrifice something less important than a turret (if you would sacrifice the broadsides or a torpedo line for shields, rather than a main turret wouldn't you do that instead?).

If it costs the same, but you have to 'play more carefully' with it while it doesn't yield bigger rewards it is by definition worse.

but it will yield bigger rewards...by careful positioning i can put more guns/torps on target than any other BB. Fore torp arc on one ship, broadside torp arc on another, and turrets where i feel like. careful positioning, better reward. no matter how i position the FSA BB, i can't get the same amount of dice(though i do have my tricks for that beast as well ) and the prussian BB, while also being able to hit multiple targets, must get right up in their face on both sides with a bunch of secondary weapons that decrease with damage, unlike the torps.

and yes, torps are susceptible to CC, but torps get stronger the closer you get, CC values are almost always lower than AA, there's a smaller effective range for a squadron to cover itself with CC, which the enemy will either not do or i can take advantage of him bunching up in other ways(hawks with mines anybody?), and damage taken on targets increases as range decreases, making them better than rockets in every instance except arcs of fire, and ability to fire at aerial targets, though who would fire rockets at an aerial vessel anyways when you look at their AA values.

I'll probably run some frigates as escorts next game, I'll lose frigates but he has a massive fixation with boarding my battleship so I'll play to that.

CPTPromotable wrote:

sourclams wrote:
You've just discovered why the British battleship is regarded as 'bad' by the DW community.

But yes, match it up with a DN, give it two shields, and have it screen the DN from the opponents heaviest hitter and launch torps and shoot the remaining turrets at immediate threats to the DN. perfect tagteam, and saves me points on giving the Majesty DN some shield gens.

You've fallen into the classic trap for 'weak unit justification'. A bad unit plus a good unit does not make for two good units.

You have a battleship for 180 pts, and a Dreadnought for 230 pts. 410 overall.

I take two Dreadnoughts. 460 pts overall. At the margin, I spend 50 points for a gain of more than 25 points of DR, CR, HP, AP, AA, CC, and AD. That adds up to more than most ships have for base stats.

Seriously, you are handicapping yourself if you're not building your KoB fleet around Dreadnoughts, subs, and bombers. Don't just take my word for it; Mutton has several very good threads detailing the good and bad units in the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Leigen_Zero wrote:
As for the KoB BB, it isn't so much a terrible ship, it just requires more finesse than the others factions, where as the FSA and PE ones can just point and fire (or whatever, you know what I mean) the KoB (and to a lesser extent the EotBS) BB needs a bit of care and strategy when moving (namely on the EotBS ship, you need to keep in the front arc until you are right up in their grill, then turn around and unleash broadsidey goodness).

If a Long Fang squad can take 6 guys with 5 Missile Launchers for the same points as a Devastator squad with 5 guys and 4 missile launchers, Devastators don't require "more finesse", they are simply worse than Long Fangs.

If there was something to actually quantify this assessment of 'more finesse', like a weak defensive line with a massive boarding payload then you'd have an argument.

sourclams wrote:

If there was something to actually quantify this assessment of 'more finesse', like a weak defensive line with a massive boarding payload then you'd have an argument.

What I meant by the post was that whereas with, for example, PE you have a single focusable tactic that you can always use without too much thought process (i.e. get up close, board the other ship). Whereas with the KoB battleship you have to really think about what you are doing in order for it to be effective (i.e. you can't use it as a 'point and click' weapon).

You need to spend turns setting up the ideal fire arcs to get the most out of it.

And when you do, you're still not much better off than the other ships who have been firing effectively all game, nor do you get the devastating effect of a boarding action.

More Finesse is about risk/reward in a way, but it's all risk and little reward.

I've just been browsing the spartan games forums, and someone there suggested running the KoB battleship with 2 shield generators and letting your torpedos do the killing.

I'm guessing it's a pig to try and kill something with 2 shield gens on it (and would make disruption generators a bit more useful) if the tactic caught on, and although you lose turret firepower, you still have those very good british torpedos.

Leigen_Zero wrote:I've just been browsing the spartan games forums, and someone there suggested running the KoB battleship with 2 shield generators and letting your torpedos do the killing.

Yeah, the 'justification of desperation'. Just because no other battleship can take two shield generators and shoot torpedoes all game doesn't necessarily mean doing so is valuable or useful--especially for 180 points.

Torpedoe reliance, as a mechanic, reminds me of Ahn'Qiraj from World of Warcraft; to beat Ahn'Qiraj, you needed a specific type of incredibly rare, marginally useful equipment (Nature Resistance). To get that equipment, you had to beat bosses in Ahn'Qiraj, including the boss that required Nature Resistance equipment to beat.

Same sort of catch-22 with torpedoes. They're a late-game weapon, only really useful as small screening ships have been eliminated and a couple points of damage have been put on big ships to soften up CC. That means early game you have to rely on gunnery to do that sort of yeoman's work. Gunnery is not something that a KoB with 2 shield gens has a lot of. Just take a Dreadnought.

I'm guessing it's a pig to try and kill something with 2 shield gens on it (and would make disruption generators a bit more useful) if the tactic caught on, and although you lose turret firepower, you still have those very good british torpedos.

Funny thing is that a KoB BB with 2 shield gens is only marginally more durable than an FSA BB with a single shield generator. The FSA throws 9-15 dice, the KoB throws 4-10 dice plus torpedoes. The inability to kill much wouldn't be so bad by itself, but boarding then becomes a no-brainer and the KoB's now-gimped gunnery is even less capable of hurting boarders on their approach. If only there was some way that KoB players could pay a nominal point cost to get significantly better gunnery, armor and defenses! Oh, Dreadnought.

PE you have a single focusable tactic that you can always use without too much thought process

Funny thing is that at RB2, KoB optimal range, Prussian gunnery is on par with KoB gunnery for the battleships while defenses are overall higher. The PE player has two 'tricks'; close for the obvious boarding action, or shoot.

It really is Long Fangs versus Devastators. One gets more guns and bodies. The other doesn't. "Finesse" doesn't cover up that discrepancy.

There's one huge flaw in your reasoning... we don't have a dreadnought. You gotta make do with what you have, and what I have is a battleship.

If I had my way I would have gunships, a dreadnought, maybe a sub and frigates and escorts, but I can't do that, I have 1 BB, 3 CA, 9X FF, 2 bombers and 10 tiny flyers and can buy 1 CV and 2 scout rotors.

So I'd like to know how to make do with what I have not what will be better.

So proxy a Dreadnought. You've got all the stats.

Spartan Games already fethed up by giving you a piece of garbage for a capital flagship. Why should you be required to perpetuate their mistake by continuing to play it?

Most of our games are "fleet box only" I have already experimented with gunships, they rock.

When we use point values I always pay the extra 20 pts for gunships. However the DN is coming out soon, so I might just wait on that one.

@SourClams - You have made your point, but I'm not justifying out of desperation here, just suggesting possible ways for the KoB BB to be effective. I'm more of a 'figure out how to make it effective' rather than an 'it's useless so ignore it' type person (incidentially, this is how I discovered a very good synergy of using a warphead with burnas/tankbustas in 40K). And you really seem to like your KoB dreadnought

EmilCrane wrote:However the DN is coming out soon, so I might just wait on that one.

Personally I'm more excited about the mechanical Ika, Mainly because I want to build a list that revolves around four of them in squadrons of two, supported by gunships, frigates and destroyers.

Or alternatively, an 'above and below' list based around a tenkei, 4 squiddies and a bunch of bombers/gyros to make it legal.

Are the 'fun models' like the big robot walker competitive?

Leigen_Zero wrote:

Personally I'm more excited about the mechanical Ika, Mainly because I want to build a list that revolves around four of them in squadrons of two, supported by gunships, frigates and destroyers.

Or alternatively, an 'above and below' list based around a tenkei, 4 squiddies and a bunch of bombers/gyros to make it legal.

I don't get a squid, I get a submarine and British grit.

We get tentacles. And Japanese crazy-ass attitude.

Painted Dreads are now on the front page of the Spartan Games site. Hopefully they're coming soon.

Greetings friends! I'm a bit late to the Dystopian Wars party and couldn't bring myself to start another thread about the game. I have some questions that I'm wondering if any of you can help me answer. Forgive me if anything I ask has been covered in the thread already, 8 pages is a bit much to sift through.

Lame intro aside, here are my questions:

-Are all the armies balanced against each other? As in, is it a completely level playing field at deployment? Or are some factions superior enough to blow the others away, thus removing a level skill from the battle?

-How much min/maxing goes on in the game? I suppose this is more of a continuation of the first question. I just worry that people will be waffling from one faction to the next depending on releases.

-The inevitable "how does this compare to 40K" question? I'm branching out from my 40K roots for one reason or another, and am curious how this game would stack up in comparison to say, Malifaux and WM/H (the two other games I play)

-How is the fun factor? I envision myself building a table to encompass land, air, and sea battles all happening at once. Is one area stronger than the other?

-Are dice rolls more important than strategy?

Thanks for any help guys. I'm reading through my rulebook and trying to decide on a faction as I type this. Blazing Sun has my eye... And sorry for a stupid long post!

@Schnitzel the game is fairly well balanced. If there were any unbalanced armies id say that the brits struggle a little, but i play Prussian and have been beaten by brit's a few times.

The rules are quite different from 40k, but not too hard to grasp and once you know them your set. There arent many finer points to them.

Fun factor is awesome. Easily the funnest wargame that i play.

The dice can play a big part but that can just add to the fun when a frigate messes up a battleship. But overall they arent too bad.

Hope i helped a little.

Schnitzel wrote:

-Are all the armies balanced against each other? As in, is it a completely level playing field at deployment? Or are some factions superior enough to blow the others away, thus removing a level skill from the battle?

The factions as a whole are okay balance-wise, but all the models haven't been released yet. It's less about faction imbalance, and more about army type imbalance. Air/Submersible lists have a strong advantage. Dreadnoughts have strong advantage over non-Dreadnoughts. In terms of points-efficient/good units versus 'bad' units, there's a lot of stuff in all the factions that is simply unlikely to be taken.

-How much min/maxing goes on in the game? I suppose this is more of a continuation of the first question. I just worry that people will be waffling from one faction to the next depending on releases.

There's a lot of opportunity for min/maxing. Since some units are simply 'better' than other units, expect to see lists feature those units heavily. The way that stats degrade as you take damage, units with very few turrets ultimately have greater longevity than units featuring many turrets. This generally 'nerfs' Kingdom of Brittannia, while favoring the FSA most heavily.

-The inevitable "how does this compare to 40K" question? I'm branching out from my 40K roots for one reason or another, and am curious how this game would stack up in comparison to say, Malifaux and WM/H (the two other games I play)

It's almost nothing like any of those games. Have you played Axis and Allies Naval Warfare? It's easily most similar to that. In terms of difficulty I'd rate it slightly more than 40k, and a good bit easier than WM/H. I haven't played Malifaux.

-How is the fun factor? I envision myself building a table to encompass land, air, and sea battles all happening at once. Is one area stronger than the other?

Generally, Air/submersible>Sea>Land. There's units that can span the gap, but in general, I'd say that's the trend.

-Are dice rolls more important than strategy?

Heh. Our gaming group has a running gag that originated with the Spartan Games forums; in short, if you can consistently roll a bunch of 6's, then you are an amazing tactician. If you can't, then you need to improve your 'tactics'.

@taylor048 - Thanks man, that's very helpful. Much appreciated.

@sourclams- Thanks for that massive break-down. Out of curiosity, is the reason for air/submersibles being so good evident of the general meta/how the rules are? Or is it based off of how tables are set up? As in, the water/land balance? I enjoy the concept of the "exploding dice" mechanic, I think that it shows off how a crit hit can represent the potential damage done in real life.

All that aside, I'm baffled as to why gaming companies produce models that are "worthless" on the battlefield. In the case of this game, is it because the rules for the models are just junk? Or is it because there are other units that do what the "crap" models do, only better?

Again, thanks for tolerating my questions. Hopefully I can contribute more to the thread in the future.

Air is generally quite hard to kill, and is faster/more manoeuvrable than their land/sea counterparts. They might lack some big guns, but they're generally very potent.

I haven't played land, but I read someone said that it's a bit like with sea, but land vehicles die much faster than ships.

I don't think the models are 'worthless' on purpose, but by accident (a model's advantage might be situational or not very good).

The Brittanian BB marine rating is so bad it almost seems like a misprint though. Conversely, the Dreadnought doesn't have the design flaws the BB has, while still fitting with the general design of the faction.

Schnitzel wrote:@taylor048 - Thanks man, that's very helpful. Much appreciated.

@sourclams- Thanks for that massive break-down. Out of curiosity, is the reason for air/submersibles being so good evident of the general meta/how the rules are? Or is it based off of how tables are set up? As in, the water/land balance? I enjoy the concept of the "exploding dice" mechanic, I think that it shows off how a crit hit can represent the potential damage done in real life.

The biggest advantage air and submersible units have is that they can climb to high altitude or dive, which means that they can only be hit on a roll of a 6. Ack Ack and Concussion Chargers still hit on a 4, 5, or 6, but these weapons are close ranged, and at that point most diving and flying models would be only too happy to board you!

All that aside, I'm baffled as to why gaming companies produce models that are "worthless" on the battlefield. In the case of this game, is it because the rules for the models are just junk? Or is it because there are other units that do what the "crap" models do, only better?

Again, thanks for tolerating my questions. Hopefully I can contribute more to the thread in the future.

Well, and this is just my impression, I think that Spartan did not anticipate the way the game would be taken apart and put back together by the gaming community. Given how rapidly the game was announced and then released, I suspect there wasn't much play testing outside of Spartan itself. That being said, there are no units that are truly worthless; the problem is that some units simply don't stack up favorably next to their counterparts in other factions. Sourclams pointed out the example with the Brittanian battleship vs. the FSA one, but you could make a similar comparison with many other units in the game. Compare the FSA bomber to the Prussian one; the Prussian has additional (and, arguably) better weapons and more speed. So, this leaves open the possibility of players fielding fleets of nothing but the strongest ship types available to that faction, rather than a more balanced force (kind of like a 40k SM army with 3 Land Raiders!).

Ruckdog wrote:

Schnitzel wrote:@taylor048 - Thanks man, that's very helpful. Much appreciated.

@sourclams- Thanks for that massive break-down. Out of curiosity, is the reason for air/submersibles being so good evident of the general meta/how the rules are? Or is it based off of how tables are set up? As in, the water/land balance? I enjoy the concept of the "exploding dice" mechanic, I think that it shows off how a crit hit can represent the potential damage done in real life.

The biggest advantage air and submersible units have is that they can climb to high altitude or dive, which means that they can only be hit on a roll of a 6. Ack Ack and Concussion Chargers still hit on a 4, 5, or 6, but these weapons are close ranged, and at that point most diving and flying models would be only too happy to board you!

All that aside, I'm baffled as to why gaming companies produce models that are "worthless" on the battlefield. In the case of this game, is it because the rules for the models are just junk? Or is it because there are other units that do what the "crap" models do, only better?

Again, thanks for tolerating my questions. Hopefully I can contribute more to the thread in the future.

Well, and this is just my impression, I think that Spartan did not anticipate the way the game would be taken apart and put back together by the gaming community. Given how rapidly the game was announced and then released, I suspect there wasn't much play testing outside of Spartan itself. That being said, there are no units that are truly worthless; the problem is that some units simply don't stack up favorably next to their counterparts in other factions. Sourclams pointed out the example with the Brittanian battleship vs. the FSA one, but you could make a similar comparison with many other units in the game. Compare the FSA bomber to the Prussian one; the Prussian has additional (and, arguably) better weapons and more speed. So, this leaves open the possibility of players fielding fleets of nothing but the strongest ship types available to that faction, rather than a more balanced force (kind of like a 40k SM army with 3 Land Raiders!).

I think I'm starting to understand that better. Thanks for breaking it down more. I assume then, where one faction lacks in say... battleships, it compensates by having better air support? Maybe I should stop trying to think it out, man up, buy the Blazing Sun naval pack, and hit the ground running. I've just made too many mistakes "jumping" into a wargame and making unecessary purchases (Looking at you Cyclops Shaman and Titan Cannoneer) that don't work with my preferred method of play but appeal to me aesthetically. Not necessarily a bad thing, as I have something neat to paint, but I'd surely love to have some sort of payoff in-game.

Either way, I'm stoked to at least get my box of minis painted (once I order it!). I love the style of the models. If nothing else happens with me and this game, I'll at least support it a bit by purchasing some models to make a neat little diorama display piece.

I am looking for people who are blogging about Dystopian Wars. I have a blog roll setup ready for more people to be added.

Alternatively I do have a webpage dedicated to all of my Dystopian Wars posts, and I am intending on adding links to other peoples websites... all I am looking for are people who post information on Dystopian Wars.

It doesnt need to be much, from just simple pictures to full blown tactical analysis. The more websites the merrier. I get a lot of traffic to my blog, The Varcan Cluster about Dystopian Wars, and I think the more content I can link people too the better.

If you are interested in having a look, check out the page on my website, and feel free to drop me a comment.

So any help, suggestions ideas or weblinks will be greatly appreciated... cause I reckon that with a little bit of work we can further help increase the amount of information out there for Dystopian Wars newbies and players alike!

Schnitzel wrote:

I think I'm starting to understand that better. Thanks for breaking it down more. I assume then, where one faction lacks in say... battleships, it compensates by having better air support? Maybe I should stop trying to think it out, man up, buy the Blazing Sun naval pack, and hit the ground running. I've just made too many mistakes "jumping" into a wargame and making unecessary purchases (Looking at you Cyclops Shaman and Titan Cannoneer) that don't work with my preferred method of play but appeal to me aesthetically. Not necessarily a bad thing, as I have something neat to paint, but I'd surely love to have some sort of payoff in-game.

Either way, I'm stoked to at least get my box of minis painted (once I order it!). I love the style of the models. If nothing else happens with me and this game, I'll at least support it a bit by purchasing some models to make a neat little diorama display piece.

There are indeed units out there that cover the weaknesses of the different factions as the come in the starter boxes. The problem is (and this brings us full circle to the comments earlier in the thread about the dreads), many of those "equalizer" units are not out yet, since the game is so new. This means either you grit and bear your fleet's weaknesses until the models hit, or else proxy the units you want to use.

I would say go ahead and get the Fleet box! The investment is pretty low, so even if you don't like the play style you aren't out a ton of cash.

I agree with Ruckdog here as well.

The difference in the factions is minimal when looking at the starter boxes.

If someone gets an undamaged squadron or Battleship within Range Band 1 (where things are most effective) then its going to sting... and sting a lot.

The outlay for Dystopian wars is one of the more attractive parts of the game for sure as you can spend relatively very little (compared to GW for example) and have all you need to play for months and months.

I'll be picking up the Blazing Sun starter naval starting box in a week or two. I'm more than a little excited. Thanks for the support guys

Awesome, the Blazing Sun has some nice models, and I tell ya, their ships are some of the faster ones out there.

Drop us some pictures if you can when you get them.

I love seeing how other people's fleets are painted.

For Blazing Sun I hear the Medium Gyro is pretty nice.

Blazing Sun has some real powerful air lists. I'd go with the Sky Fortresses and War Gyros over the ships.

The Airforce of the blazing sun is impressive.

I have found their ships have a fair chunk of assault points too.

The Air Carrier is frightening in RB1 & 2 for its turrets especially when it gets certain cards played on it as well!

Blazing Sun are tougher to get criticals on as well, that's their thing. Which means it's a lot more difficult to get those dreaded double or even triple criticals.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Incidentally, concept art for some of the Antartica units are up, some may be concerned that they're straying slightly from the accepted 'steampunk' look.
http://www.spartangames.co.uk/galleries/dystopian-wars-gallery

I think the previews look great, personally. This whole "deviating from the steampunk look" issue has been raised before (with the Prussians, for example), but it doesn't bother me a whole lot!

Quick question for those players out there. What size of game is common place now? 1200, 1500. 2000?

I am liking 1500 but wanted to see others opinions.

Hey guys. Small update on my end. I picked up a Blazing Sun tank company pack today. I built the models, but found that one of my tank tokens was not consistent with the rest of the tokens. I think it's a British tank. What do I do?

I'm buying my naval pack on Saturday. Then I'll be painting everything up and working on a table to play on.

To those who have played both land and sea engagements - would you recommend the Naval or Armoured starter for a beginner?

Thanks,
Shawn

@Schnitzel:

They have a damn fine customer service record for things like this (on par with GW).

A couple of people have posted this sort of thing on the official forums, response is always the same (and this info can be found on the website):

Mail Order/Packaging issues: Doreen Marsh – doreen@spartangames.co.uk


I haven't had to use it myself, but the forum responses are always singing praises of the customer service from Neil & Co.


Specials (squid, sub, metzger) are supposed to be coming out in July, I can't wait!

@citizen I would check to see what is being played by your store, friends, gaming group to decide. I would start with naval since that is the most likely where everyone else is at.

Yeah, naval is probably the best bet if you are joining a group that is already playing the game since the naval forces have been out longer.

Leigen_Zero wrote:@Schnitzel:

They have a damn fine customer service record for things like this (on par with GW).

A couple of people have posted this sort of thing on the official forums, response is always the same (and this info can be found on the website):

Mail Order/Packaging issues: Doreen Marsh – doreen@spartangames.co.uk


I haven't had to use it myself, but the forum responses are always singing praises of the customer service from Neil & Co.


Specials (squid, sub, metzger) are supposed to be coming out in July, I can't wait!

Awesome, thanks. I just shot them an email.

The squid comes out in July?! I am so stoked for it. It's hilariously awesome looking.

It sould be a really nice model; the poseable arms leave the door open for all kinds of conversion possibilities! It is also pretty good on the table top; I've faced a proxied one, and it took a lot of firepower to bring down.

Ruckdog wrote:It sould be a really nice model; the poseable arms leave the door open for all kinds of conversion possibilities! It is also pretty good on the table top; I've faced a proxied one, and it took a lot of firepower to bring down.

Oh Oh what were you playing?

So need to get my fleets primed.

Pael wrote:

Ruckdog wrote:It sould be a really nice model; the poseable arms leave the door open for all kinds of conversion possibilities! It is also pretty good on the table top; I've faced a proxied one, and it took a lot of firepower to bring down.

Oh Oh what were you playing?

I was running my FSA at 800 pts. It took two drosera and my battleship to bring it down!

I haven't played enough games to really know much about the list structures.

But what does everyone think? concerning average army sizes and point costs.

Like with 40k, 1500pts is considered average for a good game.
Warhammer 2000pts, Warmachine 50pts is a HUGE army etc etc....

So what would everone say the best (interesting battle in reasonable time) point sizes are for Dys Wars?

It seems like 1,000 is about right for a 2-3 hour game from my experience. At that level, you have enough points to add enough stuff that it doesn't feel like a starter box battle, but it doesn't feel unmanageable either.

@Ruckdog I want to get a game in on Thursday or Friday I live in Hagerstown, MD and see you are in Nova. What stores do you play at and will there be DW on those nights? 07/07 or 07/08?

Pael wrote:@Ruckdog I want to get a game in on Thursday or Friday I live in Hagerstown, MD and see you are in Nova. What stores do you play at and will there be DW on those nights? 07/07 or 07/08?

Hi Pael! I usually play at Eagle & Empire in Alexandria, VA (http://www.eagleandempire.net/). I have DW events scheduled there for every Friday in July, incuding the 8th. I am usually at the store starting around 5:30 pm, and play through to closing at 10. Unfortunately, I have night school on Thrusdays, so those are out.

That being said, it is going to be quite a hike from Hagerstown (about 2 hours in memory serves!), so I can understand if you can't make it. Let me know!

Anyone seen the price of the battlefoam boxes £50 (empty)

Miss Dee wrote:Anyone seen the price of the battlefoam boxes £50 (empty)

Are you for reals?
Amending this post, I thought Miss Dee meant single trays. Apologies

@Ruckdog

Thanks for the information I will see what I can do.

Miss Dee wrote:Anyone seen the price of the battlefoam boxes £50 (empty)

Yeah, the BF bags are pricey, but then that is par for the course with BF. I'm convinced they are worth it, though; my FoW bag is really nice! I am definitely interested in one of the Spartan bags, but the problem I have right now is that with new ships still on the way, my fleet list is far from finalized. I am thinking I might wait a few months for that to settle out before plunking down the cash for one.

Pael wrote:
@Ruckdog

Thanks for the information I will see what I can do.

Hey, no worries! If you would rather set something up to do a day trip on a Saturday, I would be up for that too.

Change of plans for me Ruckdog we are going to the beach earlier than expected. I will let you know if I can make it down some other time or if we can schedule a day.

Pael wrote:Change of plans for me Ruckdog we are going to the beach earlier than expected. I will let you know if I can make it down some other time or if we can schedule a day.

No worries! Stay in touch...

For all of those interested, Table Top Gaming news has posted what I believe to be the first publicly released renders of the Covenant of Antarctica forces:

http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/2011/07/11/48567/

I think I just found my 3rd DW fleet....

Hey folks, quick question.
I'm aware that Litko makes tokens and movement templates for US and FA, but has anyone seen anything for DW? The turning templates seem to be a little bit different, so I'm assuming the US/FA are not compatible. And the marker tokens are different of course.

I'm just not a big fan of the cardboard cutouts.

Funny you should mention this; Litko has posted som stuff for Dystopian Wars recently, and I just ordered some yesterday! They are listed in Jim's Lab, which is where they put experimental stuff that may or may not go into production. Here is the link, just scroll down till you see items marked "Steampunk Wars":

http://www.litko.net/categories/Jim%27s-Lab/

Among the goodies are a set of turning templates and some neat dials for use with tiny fliers

Oh wow, I must have glossed right over these. The tiny flyer token markers look interesting. I might have to pick some of those up in addition to the movement templates. The rest seem kinda frivolous, though.

Sweetness

Just got my fleet in the post, haven't been this excited about miniatures in a while. It's a good feeling. Can anyone tell me: do these minis need a wash to get rid of mould release before painting?

I would to be on the safe side HTJ

Cool, thanks Miss Dee.

I haven't had an issue but it never hurts!!

Didn't want to start a new thread for this, as it seems frivolous. Can anyone tell me who owns Northern Greenland? I can't tell if the colour is red for Britannia or orange for Blazing Sun.

I think it is Brittania

That's what I was thinking. Seems like a cool staging ground for some early land battles between the Brits and the Prussians.

Ya and you could come up with some ingenious terrain effect like a frozen lake that can sustain the weight of a landship......for a while.....

Looking at the map, I'm going to have to go with Britannia; it is definitely red-orange and not yellow. Plus, it just makes no sense to me that the EotBS would have spread that far; certainly the fluff does not indicate that they have, although the fluff is pretty limited so anything is possible, I guess.

It is true that Greenland appears to be split between Brittania and Prussia, so it would definitely fit as a setting for ground battles

Pael wrote:Ya and you could come up with some ingenious terrain effect like a frozen lake that can sustain the weight of a landship......for a while.....

sounds like an interesting terrain rule. maybe 'stress points' based on the size of land vessel and time spent on it...i like it.

I spent a couple of hours last night cleaning our ships up and washed them this morning. If the weather gets a bit better I will spray primer them later and we might have a go at a first game tomorrow!

Howard A Treesong wrote:I spent a couple of hours last night cleaning our ships up and washed them this morning. If the weather gets a bit better I will spray primer them later and we might have a go at a first game tomorrow!

Cool, let us know how it goes! I hope you show those Prussians what for, old bean.

I'll stick it to the boche if I can. Wife has a Dreadnought, I don't. I can't see it going my way.

Hmm, that's not ideal, certainly. What've you got in your list?

Stuff in the Brittania starter set and the aircraft carrier.

We're just getting to grips with it at the moment, I'm not fussed on lists. I've going to buy us both a few more things to have more rounded forces soon anyway.

Then we might get some stuff for land battles!

Ah, yes, then you are probably stuffed. In order to take down as many of the perfidious bosche as you can with you, I offer the following piece of advice. Take dive bombers for your tiny flyers. Brittanian dive bombers rock more socks than an automated sock-rocking machine. Have fun!

When you want to prime it rains, when you go out it's sunny and you cant prime pain in the _ _ _ _.

Ooof, a Dreadnought on one side. Well, the points difference mean you could take more bombers and smaller ships. You should post up the lists for both sides so we can have a look. And/Or take a record and post a new thread with a battle report. As a Prussian Dreadnought fielder I can vouch for the scariness of your KoB torpedo bombers (Doncasters?), can engage out of AA range and with multiple torpedo strikes. Then as htj says the Dive Bombers are pretty tasty too!

I have recently acquired my first fleet, a shiny covenant naval fleet, and with a Rulebook on order I should have things ready soon!
Looking forward to playing a few games it seems when I mentioned I was buying a fleet a few in my local gaming group mentioned they had fleets already!

ive just picked up a rulebook and really wanna give this game a try.

what im having difficulty doing is picking a faction.

Would some good Sir please give me an overview of each army , strengths , weaknesses etc with unit guides?

i would very much appreciate it

It depends on the game you want to play. I liked the Prussian Airship Aircraft Carrier so that was what swayed it for me. I'm very much a 'pick army by the design' type of person! But in a better answer to your question these are my feelings for each:
Prussians: Not great at long range but large amounts of firepower close up, good at boarding enemy ships
Kingdom of Brittania: Torpedoes so are dangerous at range, the Battleship's not great but the Dreadnought is pretty nice (I've played against one and it did plenty of damage!) KoB Dive bombers are vicious!!
Rising Sun & FSA: I have no first-hand experience so this is what I get from looking at the rulebook. These guys tote missiles about so can wreack havoc from range again. The Japanese have that awesome robot squid things that can drop mines.
Covenant of Antarctica: They have more expensive units so you'll field fewer of them against the other factions but they've got some particularly nasty energy weapons that hit at the same strength no matter the range! Some of the ships can semi-submerge making them harder to hit.

Individual unit guides I can't do as I only really know my faction and it would take too long! I would suggest maybe proxying some models, use your rule book and fight against yourself or someone else and get a feel for how they perform then make your decision on that. I know lots of people do that, I prefer finding out how well each one does when it's finally deployed!

You can also look at the tactics section of the SG forums, there is a lot of good discussion there as well:

http://forum.spartangames.co.uk/smf/index.php?board=162.0

I'm looking at starting Covenant too since htj and Sattamassagana initally failed to lure me with the older steampunky nations the shiny war scientists came along and finally hooked me.

Gonna theorycraft my fleet and pick it up in blister form unless I end up with most of a battlefleet box anyway.

Covenant seem to have a 40k Eldar kind of feel, not punch trading sluggers but fast elite precision strikers which suits me just fine. Then I can show those English and Prussians what for!

Some friends are playing this, now. They love the game, but say that boarding and stealing someone else's ships is often easier than trying to sink it.

kronk wrote:boarding and stealing someone else's ships is often easier than trying to sink it.

This and some really terrible balance issues are why I dropped the game. Imagine the Battle of Jutland, except the Brits and Germans steam straight at each other trying to board each other's battleships pirate-style.

I had been assuming that they were just playing some rule wrongly.

I've never played, but I've heard them talking/complaining about the boarding. Otherwise, they seem to really enjoy it.

No it really is 'that' bad.

The problem is that ships generally need to take damage 4-6 times for the big ones before they're destroyed. And since ship performance degrades with damage, you could have two battleships slug it out for five turns before one wins, and they both likely take some pretty horrible damage before the conclusion is evident.

By contrast, the battleship with more Marines can steam towards the battleship with fewer Marines while shooting at some other target. Then it boards the enemy, probably wipes out its marine complement in a single turn (since boarding actions are just 'see who rolls more dice' kind of activities) and, if it's able to do so, destroys the enemy ship.

If you're looking for a game where distant battlegroups engage each other with massive ordnance from over the horizon (like I was)... Dystopian Wars will probably disappoint you.

Still only going through the rules myself as waiting on the release of Antarctican blisters but by the numbers a band 1 full broadside volley from a battleship is potentially crippling for even an intact battleship, if it recieved damage closing to range as well then it may well end it right there. Doubly so if you laser painted or losing marines to tesla weapons.

I'm open to the idea that boarding could be a problem due to my lack of practical experience but it's not the impression I get from the numbers in terms of ranges and band dice. If your gonna close to boarding range you'd best hope they don't get a volley off before you do.

Is your experience that your lacking the short range punch to drop Battleships before they board?

I can't say as boarding has been particularly successful in my experience. Prussians looking to board my ships were fairly well ripped apart by AA, and only one boarding has actually succeeded. I'd be interested to hear some anecdotes of boarding being more successful if you've got some.

Had your escorts not been kicking around I'd have had you though. I think it's not so much boarding is overpowered but people aren't taking the possibility into account when building their fleets. Reading other battle reports out there seems to tally with this. Those that use escorts/CAP cause difficulties for boarders, those that just pootle their ships about lose them to boarders.

Sattamassagana wrote:Had your escorts not been kicking around I'd have had you though. I think it's not so much boarding is overpowered but people aren't taking the possibility into account when building their fleets. Reading other battle reports out there seems to tally with this. Those that use escorts/CAP cause difficulties for boarders, those that just pootle their ships about lose them to boarders.

Your boarding actions against my Frigate and Destroyer are the only ones I remember, and the Escorts didn't get involved with that. But they certainly add a substantial kick to repelling boarders, true.

Yes, but it was the presence of the escorts that put me off attacking your Dreadnought. It only had one AA dice but they added another 6!

Heh, yeah. Britannian Escorts are awesome.

sourclams wrote:No it really is 'that' bad.

The problem is that ships generally need to take damage 4-6 times for the big ones before they're destroyed. And since ship performance degrades with damage, you could have two battleships slug it out for five turns before one wins, and they both likely take some pretty horrible damage before the conclusion is evident.

By contrast, the battleship with more Marines can steam towards the battleship with fewer Marines while shooting at some other target. Then it boards the enemy, probably wipes out its marine complement in a single turn (since boarding actions are just 'see who rolls more dice' kind of activities) and, if it's able to do so, destroys the enemy ship.

If you're looking for a game where distant battlegroups engage each other with massive ordnance from over the horizon (like I was)... Dystopian Wars will probably disappoint you.

Eh, as others have pointed out, escorts and CAP can really help larger models with this problem. For smaller models, I've found that I can usually hold range long enough to whittle down the enemies smaller ships before they hit 4". The thing is, even cruisers die relatively easily in this game; getting 6 hits for a crit is not all that hard to do. The bigger problem, as I see it, are the airships. The can come in obscured and then board the pants off you! The best way to mitigate that factor that I've found is to limit the number of airships in the game.

Irregardless, there is no getting around the fact that boarding is a major part of DW. This makes the game closer in feel to an age of sail game than a WWI/WWII naval game, so if that kind of game is what you were hoping for, I can understand your disappointment. Still, I have found DW to be a fun game in it's own right, so YMMV.

So I'll start by saying I really enjoy the game. I love how it looks mid game on the table and I love how it plays out.
But it seems that every time I play a game I find new things that make no sense so I'm here to ask a couple questions and hopefully some of you kind folks can help clarify.
First, the american blimps...how do armored topsides protect them from shots coming from below? Makes no sense to me.
Second, how exactly do the line of site over smaller models rules work? In one place it says that large ships can only see over small and tiny but then later on the same page it also says that models can see over other models one size smaller than themselves. So can my taka-ashi walker see over my chi-ri mid tanks or not?
edit* Third, elusive target: is that really only for when small ships fire at other small ships?

Other bits of the rules just seem horribly worded or not well thought out. I'm glad the group I play with plays more for fun instead of competition.

wana10 wrote:So I'll start by saying I really enjoy the game. I love how it looks mid game on the table and I love how it plays out.
But it seems that every time I play a game I find new things that make no sense so I'm here to ask a couple questions and hopefully some of you kind folks can help clarify.
First, the american blimps...how do armored topsides protect them from shots coming from below? Makes no sense to me.
Second, how exactly do the line of site over smaller models rules work? In one place it says that large ships can only see over small and tiny but then later on the same page it also says that models can see over other models one size smaller than themselves. So can my taka-ashi walker see over my chi-ri mid tanks or not?
edit* Third, elusive target: is that really only for when small ships fire at other small ships?

Other bits of the rules just seem horribly worded or not well thought out. I'm glad the group I play with plays more for fun instead of competition.

1. Yeah, the armored topside MAR on the Lees does seem a bit counter-intuitive, but I like to imagine them being attacked by plunging fire .

2. AFAIK, the rule is that models can shoot over other models if they are two or more sizes smaller, as per the example on page 47. Do you have a page number for the one size smaller bit? In your example, the walker would not be able to see over the medium tanks.

3. Yes, for all intents and purposes Elusive Target works the same as Small target in that it causes small ships to hit a model with that rule only on a 5 or 6.

Don't have the book on me at the moment but I'm pretty sure the size bit is both in the terrain section and the first page of the line of sight section. It talks about terrain sizes and seeing over terrain and then mentions model sizes and l.o.s.

I just checked; even in the discussion on terrain, it has to be two sizes or levels smaller than the firing model for it to see/shoot over.

Didn't get around to our game in the end, I'm still getting to grips with the rules, there are a lot of little things to remember, so I'm trying understand everything properly first. Instead we ended up drinking a bottle of wine that sunday and I didn't feel up to much after that.

Nissed as a Pute.