Wha-Mu-077 wrote: And they're lineup is extensive enough by AoS standards that you can just not use them, they also get regular-ish spearmen, archers, cavalry, ballista and such.
A lineup which was released in two separate Battletomes (one in 2020 and one in 2021).
Overread wrote: I don't see a problem with "cow elves". They came right alongside spear archer and regular light cavalry.
Well, no. They came after.
They previewed a high elf reboot with spears, archers and cav, and then pulled a bait and switch with the cow elves and elemental temples.
If that appeals to people, fine. But the initial preview was traditional high elves, and then the rest of the army... wasn't.
The Vanari Auralan Wardens went on pre-order on September 5th, 2020 while the Vanari Dawnriders and Aralith Stoneguard went on pre-order on September 12th, 2020.
Overread wrote: I don't see a problem with "cow elves". They came right alongside spear archer and regular light cavalry.
Well, no. They came after.
They previewed a high elf reboot with spears, archers and cav, and then pulled a bait and switch with the cow elves and elemental temples.
If that appeals to people, fine. But the initial preview was traditional high elves, and then the rest of the army... wasn't.
The Vanari Auralan Wardens went on pre-order on September 5th, 2020 while the Vanari Dawnriders and Aralith Stoneguard went on pre-order on September 12th, 2020.
Eh 1 week apart is the same release wave.
Well done guys, you've found the later release.
Try the original one, which were just updated high elves (June 15, 2020):
Though admittedly I was wrong, the archers hadn't been shown off yet. Just new spears, riders and characters (including a redesigned SC from the old books and a generic captain).
Overread wrote: I don't see a problem with "cow elves". They came right alongside spear archer and regular light cavalry.
Well, no. They came after.
They previewed a high elf reboot with spears, archers and cav, and then pulled a bait and switch with the cow elves and elemental temples.
If that appeals to people, fine. But the initial preview was traditional high elves, and then the rest of the army... wasn't.
The Vanari Auralan Wardens went on pre-order on September 5th, 2020 while the Vanari Dawnriders and Aralith Stoneguard went on pre-order on September 12th, 2020.
Eh 1 week apart is the same release wave.
Well done guys, you've found the later release.
Try the original one, which were just updated high elves (June 15, 2020):
Though admittedly I was wrong, the archers hadn't been shown off yet. Just new spears, riders and characters (including a redesigned SC from the old books and a generic captain).
The Lumineth Realm-lords Army Set is available to pre-order this weekend in strictly limited qualities (sic), so get online fast to secure your copy! In the meantime, check back tomorrow for another preview of the Mortal Realms’ newest army.
A boxed set which was only available in strictly limited quantities hardly supports your claims that the Aralith Stoneguard came later. For the vast majority of players they came out at the same time.
Overread wrote: I don't see a problem with "cow elves". They came right alongside spear archer and regular light cavalry.
Well, no. They came after.
They previewed a high elf reboot with spears, archers and cav, and then pulled a bait and switch with the cow elves and elemental temples.
If that appeals to people, fine. But the initial preview was traditional high elves, and then the rest of the army... wasn't.
The Vanari Auralan Wardens went on pre-order on September 5th, 2020 while the Vanari Dawnriders and Aralith Stoneguard went on pre-order on September 12th, 2020.
Eh 1 week apart is the same release wave.
Well done guys, you've found the later release.
Try the original one, which were just updated high elves (June 15, 2020):
Though admittedly I was wrong, the archers hadn't been shown off yet. Just new spears, riders and characters (including a redesigned SC from the old books and a generic captain).
There were articles on warcom with pics of the cow related units in March, April, and May of 2020 with the limited box released in June 2020. There was no surprise after the limited box was released.
Overread wrote: I don't see a problem with "cow elves". They came right alongside spear archer and regular light cavalry.
Well, no. They came after.
They previewed a high elf reboot with spears, archers and cav, and then pulled a bait and switch with the cow elves and elemental temples.
If that appeals to people, fine. But the initial preview was traditional high elves, and then the rest of the army... wasn't.
The Vanari Auralan Wardens went on pre-order on September 5th, 2020 while the Vanari Dawnriders and Aralith Stoneguard went on pre-order on September 12th, 2020.
Eh 1 week apart is the same release wave.
Especially as week 2 models had been shown looooong time ago. You hardly bought wave 1 and then find out rest.
Phil Kelly explaining that yes, it's a new setting and they're very excited to explore it for a while.
Interestingly, some locations are shown on the map of the Gnarlwood and they are clearly bound to specific factions. Certainly linked to quests, maybe future warbands.
I'm a bit sad we're already leaving the eight points while we barely scratched everything it had to offer, but it makes sense to link it more to Ghur where all the current seasons of war will be set - making the bridge from Warcry to AoS (or the other way) easier.
Sarouan wrote: Phil Kelly explaining that yes, it's a new setting and they're very excited to explore it for a while.
Interestingly, some locations are shown on the map of the Gnarlwood and they are clearly bound to specific factions. Certainly linked to quests, maybe future warbands.
Hopefully but I think we might be disappointed but maybe the Rotmire are linked to the Fens and the Horns of Hashut to the Tainted Wound? Talax’s is the crashed Seraphon ship.
They could almost rerelease the Deathworld forest terrain for this setting and have it fit more or less.
Was it Red Harvest that hinted at a bunch of factions/warbands that were never released? I seem to recall a map and some intriguing icons, but don't recall anything ever being revealed.
Equinox wrote: Was it Red Harvest that hinted at a bunch of factions/warbands that were never released? I seem to recall a map and some intriguing icons, but don't recall anything ever being revealed.
Catacombs has a map with a Skaven symbol and other more generic symbols such as a scorpion that didn’t result in warbands. Red Harvest has a map of the Bloodwind Spoil that mentions Beastmen and more generic names funnily enough Rotmire is one of them. Maps haven’t lead to warbands but this is the first time they’ve been so specific with the faction runes.
They come from established factions. I can't place that skull on Ven Talex but everything else links to warbands that already exist. Could still mean they are getting new ones though, Nurgle already had warbands after all.
Ramping up the coverage day by day preorder might even get announced on Sunday at this rate, Red Harvest had a very short turn around from reveal to release as well.
According to Warhammer Community, in one of the first articles on Squats they claimed not Squats but the Leagues of Votann were back after their decades long absence. What is now has always been, until the next time they need to rewrite history.
They said on stream that existing players wouldn't need the new core rulebook/would be familiar with the core rulebook, which doesn't really suggest a new edition nor any re-purchasing necessary to me.
As for me, I'm not rebuying everything. I've had it with GW's planned obsolescence. Also, I've gotten more pleasure kitbashing with WGA, Northstar, and assorted 3rd party bits than from expensive GW monopose sets.
How many years has it been since Warcry first launched? I'm pretty hyped with how they have said it is largely the same with a few tweaks, since that is all Warcry needs to put polish on a great system. I'm not at all opposed to buying newer versions of content that is updated and better after several years, if anything I am quite happy to.
The big question is if it is actually an improvement. For a lot of rulebooks GW releases that is debatable so despite the above I can't fault people's pessimism. I trust Sam Pearson though, he just gets narrative play.
I'm thinking that the addition of Reactions is probably the big change for the "new edition".
It's weird to call what is most likely (by the community team's accounts, at least) small tweaks and maybe 1 additional mechanic a "new edition" when adding allies and monsters wasn't. Feels like those things shake the game up more than small tweaks.
I've also been speculating with my play group that they may make some sort of move to make warbands a little more pre-determined, as we see in Kill Team, but I've heard no rumors of that being the case.
Adding rules is distinct from changing what's there, and regardless the addition of reactions is a pretty big deal. It has massive implications for gameplay and does so for every match regardless of what people brought or what scenario they play.
Geifer wrote: According to Warhammer Community, in one of the first articles on Squats they claimed not Squats but the Leagues of Votann were back after their decades long absence. What is now has always been, until the next time they need to rewrite history.
And they just wrote some fluff that saw the Dark Angels and Space Wolves suddenly get thousands of new Mk.VI Power Armour suits that the Raven Guard were stockpiling! It's almost as if GW just released a new HH game full of Beakie armour rather than Mk.II-V suits... hmm...
The fluff is arbitrary and will always be changed/rewritten to fit whatever they need to sell. This is nothing new.
No surprise that they are moving to Killteam type release pattern. Will that mean 1 new warband and 1 existing models with an upgrade sprue? Unique warbands is open to interpretation. Next box set should be telling.
Hopefully all the terrain builds into 1 big coherent table. That obelisk rumour engine from Tuesday is probably from an upcoming box for the Wyrdlights. Looks like the next box will release in October/November and be Chaos Legionnaires as the new warband vs ??? (maybe a Tzeentch Acolytes box with an added sprue?) basically Legionnaires should release before the S2D book as they are in it as well (in the cultists section).
DaveC wrote: No surprise that they are moving to Killteam type release pattern. Will that mean 1 new warband and 1 existing models with an upgrade sprue? Unique warbands is open to interpretation. Next box set should be telling.
With the terrain rules and warband campaigns now in a different book to the rules, we'll probably see a KT-alike release of the book as an overpriced standalone with the terrain and warbands when released individually.
And don't forget the Alliance tomes will be reissued at about the same price. So $50 Core plus $45-50 Chaos tome for the updated stats at the very least. I've Chaos, Order, and Death warbands, and I'm sure others are in the same boat.
That’s pretty much the core plus forces separate books model of KT, if that’s how they’re going.
We played KT18 and Warcry both just using the core books (plus cheapish warcry card packs for non core forces) and it was enjoyable.
Dropped out of KT after new edition. Most local players just went back to 40k. This new edition will probably finish off the small group of local warcry gaming.
Dropped out of KT after new edition. Most local players just went back to 40k. This new edition will probably finish off the small group of local warcry gaming.
Not really, all old books are still compatible with this "new edition", since the rules actually don't change in opposition to last edition of Kill Team. So us in the existing community don't really have to update anything and keep playing.
Besides, cards are still around and on the contrary of Kill Team, the actual number of rules you need for your faction is much lower. I mean, there is no "separate stratagem card" in Warcry.
Not really, all old books are still compatible with this "new edition", since the rules actually don't change in opposition to last edition of Kill Team. So us in the existing community don't really have to update anything and keep playing.
Do you a quote on this? I don't remember any mention. On the contrary, unless I have missed a memo GW has been suspiciously quiet about compatibility of rules and hasn't shown even a glimpse of a single fighter card yet.
I agree on "we will be fine" part but I have a feeling that good number of printed material won't survive long in Heart of Ghur.
Do you a quote on this? I don't remember any mention. On the contrary, unless I have missed a memo GW has been suspiciously quiet about compatibility of rules and hasn't shown even a glimpse of a single fighter card yet.
I agree on "we will be fine" part but I have a feeling that good number of printed material won't survive long in Heart of Ghur.
They have an article, next week, highlighting the changes in the new edition. Apparently most of the new core book will be familiar to existing players, but I'm assuming new edition, new core book.
For example; if I bought the current rule book, right now, it will probably be out of date just enough to be a waste of money.
And don't forget the Alliance tomes will be reissued at about the same price. So $50 Core plus $45-50 Chaos tome for the updated stats at the very least. I've Chaos, Order, and Death warbands, and I'm sure others are in the same boat.
Eh, those aren't essential for play though, as anyone with a starter box will have all the stats they need. Ultimately I'm not concerned about my expense--breaking things down it works out to $10 per month or less for items I get a lot of use from (and I get all the books too), I'm concerned about the sticker shock for people getting in. Once the threshold goes above $100 to play that is a breaking point for many people. Makes it harder to get new players.
Yah! Stat cards look to be the exact same as the current edition - which I hope means all the previous Warbands will be playable without additional purchases.
privateer4hire wrote: Except for reactions possibly giving new gangs a boost or at least more options
Very true. In my opinion, best case scenario is GW releases a unique for reaction for each old faction as a PDF (should be easy as they look to be one to two sentences max). More likely they have a list of generic ones that older factions can choose from in the new rulebook. Worst case (and with how GW is generally, most likely) they rerelease all their books with all the old factions having the exact same stats/abilities and simply add a one sentence reaction to them. If the third option is the case I’m using Wahpedia to grab that one sentence, because there is no way in hell I would pay for that.
Groan…. They are really trying to squeeze as much cash as they can out with these releases. Wanted to see warbands, not a blasted boxed set paywall for day one access to them.
And yes, these apparently are the vanguard (chaff) of the main chaos dwarf forces. Also a thrid warband apparently coming out with the new box. Which i guess means warbands aren't going to be restricted to just the quarterly boxes?
And yes, these apparently are the vanguard (chaff) of the main chaos dwarf forces. Also a thrid warband apparently coming out with the new box. Which i guess means warbands aren't going to be restricted to just the quarterly boxes?
Also from that article...
The Horns of Hashut worship take their name from the evil duardin deity they worship, and also act as his heralds of ruination.
I know I'm the minority, but these warbands (and the terrain) really do absolutely nothing for me.
I'm not sure what it is, to be honest. They definitely have unique sculpts and a theme.
It's been the same for most of the "original" warcry warbands with me as well. I think the only one that even had me slightly interested was the Iron Golems.
I think it's because they're 99% just human dudes/dudettes, maybe? But, then again, if they released a warband of all warrior priests and witch hunters, I'd be on that like white on rice! Maybe the chaotic aesthetic isn't for me, I guess.
I do like Warcry the game, to be fair, but to date I've never bought one of these battle boxes or starter boxes.
Not really a complaint so much as an observation, as I do understand that these models are pretty beloved, since they're exploring aesthetics that aren't done anywhere else at GW.
I mean, the whole point of the game was various mortal chaos cultists running around in the wild and exploring them. The rest of the races weren't really meant to get involved, which is why the shadowstalkers are an outlier.
That's a weird write-up for Hashut and the legions. If the human warbands turn up conquer and lay waste to everything, what do the actual armies do? Are they just builders for the forges and armories?
The Horns of Hashut worship take their name from the evil duardin deity they worship, and also act as his heralds of ruination. Marching ahead of his legendary duardin legions, they conquer regions, laying waste to all lifeforms, leaving behind only wastelands for sprawling daemon-forges and dark armouries. The humans that make up the Horns of Hashut have spent their lives living among the Chaos-worshipping duardin, and have long since abandoned such concepts as compassion and mercy.
Also, Hashut sounds active among his followers, setting goals and issuing orders. That's... interesting.
Voss wrote: Also, Hashut sounds active among his followers, setting goals and issuing orders. That's... interesting.
How does that compare to material presented about him in WFB? I never owned the Chaos Dwarf book, that I recall, so I'm a bit hazy on their background.
Voss wrote: That's a weird write-up for Hashut and the legions. If the human warbands turn up conquer and lay waste to everything, what do the actual armies do? Are they just builders for the forges and armories?
The Horns of Hashut worship take their name from the evil duardin deity they worship, and also act as his heralds of ruination. Marching ahead of his legendary duardin legions, they conquer regions, laying waste to all lifeforms, leaving behind only wastelands for sprawling daemon-forges and dark armouries. The humans that make up the Horns of Hashut have spent their lives living among the Chaos-worshipping duardin, and have long since abandoned such concepts as compassion and mercy.
Also, Hashut sounds active among his followers, setting goals and issuing orders. That's... interesting.
It sounds like the Horns are just there to get a toehold for the Legions or at least be thrown at an objective that may be deemed costly for the Legions to go at just yet. The Horns are there to create cracks in the enemy so that when Hashut’s legion descends one blow will shatter it to pieces - all for the low low cost of droves of human chaff. Once the Horns capture the vessel in an environment not suited at all for the Legion to work in then start the terraforming process then the Legions will come through and bulldoze all other resistance.
Voss wrote: Also, Hashut sounds active among his followers, setting goals and issuing orders. That's... interesting.
How does that compare to material presented about him in WFB? I never owned the Chaos Dwarf book, that I recall, so I'm a bit hazy on their background.
Aren’t all gods in AoS just more present anyway though? Good or bad etc
Voss wrote: That's a weird write-up for Hashut and the legions. If the human warbands turn up conquer and lay waste to everything, what do the actual armies do? Are they just builders for the forges and armories?
The Horns of Hashut worship take their name from the evil duardin deity they worship, and also act as his heralds of ruination. Marching ahead of his legendary duardin legions, they conquer regions, laying waste to all lifeforms, leaving behind only wastelands for sprawling daemon-forges and dark armouries. The humans that make up the Horns of Hashut have spent their lives living among the Chaos-worshipping duardin, and have long since abandoned such concepts as compassion and mercy.
Also, Hashut sounds active among his followers, setting goals and issuing orders. That's... interesting.
It sounds like the Horns are just there to get a toehold for the Legions or at least be thrown at an objective that may be deemed costly for the Legions to go at just yet. The Horns are there to create cracks in the enemy so that when Hashut’s legion descends one blow will shatter it to pieces - all for the low low cost of droves of human chaff. Once the Horns capture the vessel in an environment not suited at all for the Legion to work in then start the terraforming process then the Legions will come through and bulldoze all other resistance.
Interesting to hear we are getting a third new Warband. I'm liking the Horns of Hashut fluff quite a bit - sounds like to me they go into untamed areas and set up a staging area for the Chaos Dwarves to come in and set up shop.
Seriously considering picking up the box set, I actually like warbands and fluff for them more as I look into them a bit. I know a lot of people aren't fans of Chaos-centric model of Warcry - but I personally love it. I always liked the contained story setting games, like Mordheim better.
JSG wrote: So hobgoblins and now the horns of hashut. How much longer are they going to blue ball us on the legions?
Somewhat. Hobgrots in the Orruck Warclans do still work with the Chaos Dwarfs - they sell the slaves the captured in raids to the Chaos Dwarfs in exchange for cast off weapons and supplies.
JimmyWolf87 wrote: Wonder if the third Warband are going to be Lizardmen given how much they seem to be tied to the narrative of this release.
Hoping for something new but expecting the Chaos Legionnaires. The best thing they could do is show a non chaos warband and put that speculation to bed.
I wonder if the Centaurian Marshal will get released in this wave as well?
It would have been nice if the Horns had included some hobgrots. Although not technically chaos-ified, it would have been our first official greenskins in warcry.
And since silver tower had the grot scuttlings, I don't think many people would bat their eyes
Carlovonsexron wrote: Humans, Hobgobs, and Dwarfs all working together? Hashut offers a more inclusive umbrella of unity than Sigmar does.
Humans, elves, dwarves, magic beings, treecreatures, hydras, lizards...you were saying?-)
Non of those guys work for sigmar, they work with him - they migh tlive in the "cities of sigmar" sure - but it's a humans only club in Stormcast land.
tneva82 wrote: Umm they live and work together...They aren't separate armies and nations but one and together.
There's enough lore out there that speaks to the often frought relationship between stormcast garrisons and thier host cities to make me doubt there is an entirely rose colored picture, but beyond that my point still stands: where are the dwarfcasts? The Gobcasts? The undisputed elfcasts?
No, no, no - you want inclusiveness it's Hashut all the way!
tneva82 wrote: Umm they live and work together...They aren't separate armies and nations but one and together.
There's enough lore out there that speaks to the often frought relationship between stormcast garrisons and thier host cities to make me doubt there is an entirely rose colored picture, but beyond that my point still stands: where are the dwarfcasts? The Gobcasts? The undisputed elfcasts?
No, no, no - you want inclusiveness it's Hashut all the way!
Wasn't the old lore that any soul could be a stormcast? So technically a dwar stormcast would look the same as a normal stormcast, since they get reforged.
I imagine that lore is retconned, but any AOS lore junkies care to confirm?
... only the trained eye would be able to identify the various leering daemon-faces across their armour as subtle marks of allegiance to the Dark Master.
Really not keen on those sculpts, the feel a lot like some of the more awkward stuff FW puts out, the proportions just seem a bit off (and not just because they're chaos mutants)
Have the same feeling about these guys as I did the Darkoath.
There is a lot to like and most of its pretty awesome but there are a few things that just seem... off. I ended up really liking the Darkoath kit though, aside from some of the faces.
Love the continuing lore of Belakor sticking it to Archaon.
The brigandine looks great, but I think the models look kind of goofy. The guy on the bottom right of the first picture looks like a Disney villain, maybe Gaston. That chin!
ImAGeek wrote: They’re weird. I like almost everything about them if I just focus on individual parts but for some reason they aren’t working as whole models for me.
I think they're overcomplicated. The basic armour idea and the underlying helmet is cool, and that would have been enough. The added horns, spikes and daemon faces are too much, and I definitely prefer those with the leather boots to the ones with the metal legs - odd to have platemail arms and legs but not the chest!
Shakalooloo wrote: I think they're overcomplicated. The basic armour idea and the underlying helmet is cool, and that would have been enough. The added horns, spikes and daemon faces are too much, and I definitely prefer those with the leather boots to the ones with the metal legs - odd to have platemail arms and legs but not the chest!
the brigandine torso and plate legs was really common historically - brigandine being a form of platearmor by some people. I think those aspects of the models look great actually.
I only like the Horns on the leader, but that's mostly.because it matches well with a conversion I made a few years back lol
over all I like them, I'm.almost.certainly.getting some if just to play around with conversions.
Not a massive chaos fan but this new warband is appealling. Along with the Centaur monster( I love monsters! ), I'm already up for a purchase.
I've noticed that the Mindstealer kit comes with their warscroll, so I'm assuming Warcry is as simple as having the core rule book and the appropriate warscrolls?
Osorios wrote: The guy on the bottom right of the first picture looks like a Disney villain, maybe Gaston. That chin!
Just imagine Quentin Tarantino wearing a helmet, and I think the image would be pretty close. (Well, either Tarantino or Handsome Squidward, take your pick)
They're sneaking in some modern remakes of classic metal chaos thugs and chaos marauders. At the very least, some heavy influences (I'm pretty sure I've got the inspiration for the mace and shield guy)
The brigandines are fantastic, and honestly, overall they aren't that busy. A lot of the detail will come out great with a metallic paint and a wash or two.
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: Wow, a warcry unit I actually like entirely. Im amazed. People actually in clothes and armor, a shock.
Same. Shoes for everyone! Except the guy with hooves, which is fine.
Dang it. After seeing the preview of one of these a month or two back I was really hoping these were going to be the new Marauders. As a Warcry warband they are OK but it is hard to get excited for another garbage mortal unit to fill the pages of the next STD tome. Fingers crossed that the Centaur Marshal dude will get decent rules.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I think it's weird they're called Chaos Legionnaires so soon after they re-branded CSMs.
The preview has them as a part of Be'lakor's army (called 'The Legion of the First Prince' in the 'Soul Wars: Everchosen' rulebook in 2020) so calling them Legionnaires is appropriate.
I really wish they came in a unit of ten. That way I could at least convert them slightly into Marauders if I wanted without having to buy multiple boxes.
Also, the leader is called a Decuriarch. A decurion is a unit of ten horsemen. It's in the name!
But they're fine, I guess. Though I'm a bit tired of the only new Slaves to Darkness units being Warcry warbands. Can we please have new Marauders already?
They look like classic chaos thugs and marauders. Particularly some of the ones that came out 'Marauder MIniatures' (the Morrisons' company that lasted from 88 to 93, before being reabsorbed by Citadel)
Some of the scale creep back in the day came from Marauder- they were just a smidge bigger than Citadel.
By the way did anyone notice in the war and fluff the mention of the Serephon void ship? 😳 Could this be a subtle hint of what may be finally returning to 40k?
Also, is the one with a spear actually a Gor? He's got horns, furry legs, and hooves but his face looks very human.
He's a Turnskin!
I do like the inclusion of just... mutations. It's an aspect Chaos has lost a lot of and I am enjoying seeing some return to that in GWs lineup. Need more of those steps between 'whole' and 'spawn' imo.
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John D Law wrote: By the way did anyone notice in the war and fluff the mention of the Serephon void ship? 😳 Could this be a subtle hint of what may be finally returning to 40k?
They've been a thing for all of AoS and arguably before, when they left the Old World during End Times: Thanquol. I wouldn't read too much into it.
Even if not everything GW makes for Warcry is to my tastes, or not something I would want to paint an army of.... I freaking love how much the sculptors have been exploring a multitude of aesthetics to entice a variety of players.
NH Gunsmith wrote: Even if not everything GW makes for Warcry is to my tastes, or not something I would want to paint an army of.... I freaking love how much the sculptors have been exploring a multitude of aesthetics to entice a variety of players.
I like them. I prefer the modern Chaos Warrior look for armored Chaos worshippers and half naked barbarians for regular Joes, but these guys are cool, too.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: There’s definitely something off about them. They kind of look like non-chaos warriors with random chaos bits stuck on.
Perhaps you see the non-Chaos part because they could be seen as a blend of Tilean mercenaries, Brettonian men at arms and samurai. The latter could easily absorb some of the horns, so there isn't necessarily much in the way of chaotic design elements left.
But as has been mentioned, they do seem to draw on a look of Chaos worshippers that hasn't been in use for thirty years. The historical armor with leering faces thing made its way into a few illustrations in Realms of Chaos.
Although to be fair. There were three decurion in a unit of thirty. It’s meaning was there, but they didn’t actually split into tens or anything.
My point being it was the leaders not the unit called it.
But yeah it’s still classic GWness
On the warband itself, yeah they look ok, but not amazing enough for me to want to jump into Warcry yet..
A good box with two good warbands, is what I need for me to get a set.
As usual I maybe like one but not both sides in these boxes, enough to pull the trigger anyway.
But if a good solo warband box comes out like this that I like, maybe..
NinthMusketeer wrote: I do like the inclusion of just... mutations. It's an aspect Chaos has lost a lot of and I am enjoying seeing some return to that in GWs lineup. Need more of those steps between 'whole' and 'spawn' imo.
Unfortunately, since he'll be a 'fixed' warband member option, every Legionnaire mob will have some bloke with goat legs.
When Warcry was first announced, I had foolishly hoped that it would be a return to some Realms of Chaos 'get random gifts' campaign where you got to add/remove limbs from your dudes on the whims of the dice. Having the fixed roster of options for each faction just makes the Chaos too ordered for my tastes, even if each of the flavours they've gone for has been awesome individually.
NinthMusketeer wrote: It's only fixed for the AoS version, where it all blends together in one unit anyways. In Warcry only the leader can't be taken in multiples.
Sorry, I mean 'fixed' as in: you want a mutant? It's Fleshrend Goatlegs or nobody, buddy. No choice of what mutant you want to take (outside of hacking some limbs off yourself, of course... )
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: So they look like Warrior Cultists of Chaos, rather than some dudes that pick up random scrap and call themselves warrior cultists.
Warriors who became cultists rather than cultists who became a warband?
His Master's Voice wrote: Oh man, those designs walked right out of an Ian Miller illustration. I love them.
You know I read this and literally my opinion of them totally shifted. I see it now. I think I’ve gone from “I’m really not sure” to “totally love them”. I’d just need to figure out how to paint them to look like Ian Miller’s art. Lots of contrast probably (and I don’t mean the paint brand).
I was really dissapointed by the rotmire guys and horns of hashut, so Im really glad war cry get back on track. (well, this is just my opinion. From reading the posts here, I realise most people have the exact opposite taste )
By the way Decurion comes from Deca, meaning 10 just like Centurion comes from Centum, meaning 100, its basicly just the roman way of structuring the military forces in fixed numbers. Calling them Legionnaires obviously draw from the same type of military organisation, so it makes sense to me calling the unit leader a Decuriarch, because it just imply he is incharge of a unit of 10 guys.
I was really dissapointed by the rotmire guys and horns of hashut, so Im really glad war cry get back on track. (well, this is just my opinion. From reading the posts here, I realise most people have the exact opposite taste )
By the way Decurion comes from Deca, meaning 10 just like Centurion comes from Centum, meaning 100, its basicly just the roman way of structuring the military forces in fixed numbers. Calling them Legionnaires obviously draw from the same type of military organisation, so it makes sense to me calling the unit leader a Decuriarch, because it just imply he is incharge of a unit of 10 guys.
Romans were not exactly literalists for this either, for a large chunk of time a typical century contained ~80 legionaries, not 100.
It's also because the meaning of words shifts/drifts over time and even contextually/within different social groupings.
It can even get to a point where a word is hardly ever used for its original meaning and instead is used more for its "new" meaning.
A good example is the word "gay". At one time a word used to denote happiness. However today you are more likely to encounter its use as a term to describe people of a homosexual orientation.
Overread wrote: It's also because the meaning of words shifts/drifts over time and even contextually/within different social groupings.
It can even get to a point where a word is hardly ever used for its original meaning and instead is used more for its "new" meaning.
A good example is the word "gay". At one time a word used to denote happiness. However today you are more likely to encounter its use as a term to describe people of a homosexual orientation.
Or like "Gatling"
Gatling was initially just the surname of the guy that invented the Gatling's Gun. But, because the surname sounded so much like an adjective, with the -ing ending and all, now, a 150 years or so later, "gatling" is used as an adjective that denotes something heavy and rapid-firing. Just look at 40k and Fallout.
2 week window again for some reason? Also the box is limited, which i guess is logical if it's a 3 month window between each box. But no Legionnaires or centaur. Perhaps during the second week.
2 week window again for some reason? Also the box is limited, which i guess is logical if it's a 3 month window between each box. But no Legionnaires or centaur. Perhaps during the second week.
Given the chaos marines mess, I'd say production or shipping problems. With GenCon possibly adding a 'oh, screw it' cherry to the top. And a layer of underestimating HH demand, at least for the older marks and the tanks.
We’ve now had a closer look at the two warbands arriving in the new Warcry core set, but that’s not all. Join us later in the week as we reveal a third new Warcry warband arriving in time for The Heart of Ghur.
Well it's a two week pre-order isn't it? So if they have the box for the first and the legionnaires and centaur for the second week, then they're still coming out at the same time.
Every time I see the Rotmire, I like them more and more. There's a Slainesque quality to them, so much so that I can imagine them illustrated by Simon Bisley.
tneva82 wrote: Gw didn't say it comes with them. Just shortly after.
I quoted it. Saying "in time for" means that it comes with or before.
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Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Well it's a two week pre-order isn't it? So if they have the box for the first and the legionnaires and centaur for the second week, then they're still coming out at the same time.
I'm not feeling this one. The terrain is neat enough but the box will no doubt cost more than a 3d printer. I feel that's a good benchmark for what's a sensible purchase.
Ugh Compendium incoming - could be worse at least everything is in 1 book rather than 4.
Of course, you’ll also be able to bring your warbands from the first edition of Warcry into the Gnarlwood. More than 800 fighters are getting fully updated rules, including new profiles and warband reactions, all of which you’ll be able to find in the Warcry Compendium, which will be out just a couple of weeks after the new boxed set. This weighty tome covers every warband from Grand Alliance Order, Chaos, Death, and Destruction, alongside their Allies, Monsters and Thralls. It’s the essential companion for any existing Warcry player.
We’ve now had a closer look at the two warbands arriving in the new Warcry core set, but that’s not all. Join us later in the week as we reveal a third new Warcry warband arriving in time for The Heart of Ghur.
tneva82 wrote: Gw didn't say it comes with them. Just shortly after.
I quoted it. Saying "in time for" means that it comes with or before.
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Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Well it's a two week pre-order isn't it? So if they have the box for the first and the legionnaires and centaur for the second week, then they're still coming out at the same time.
and again, pointlessly dragging it out.
They said hot in heels. That means very close to it.
Definition of 'hot on sb's heels'
If you say that someone is hot on your heels, you are emphasizing that they are chasing you and are not very far behind you.
Dictionary. Handy thing that at finding out meaning of english words and phrases. Wanna try it one of these days.
We’ve now had a closer look at the two warbands arriving in the new Warcry core set, but that’s not all. Join us later in the week as we reveal a third new Warcry warband arriving in time for The Heart of Ghur. We’ll also have more Horns of Hashut rules for you next week – so sign up for our newsletter to ensure you don’t miss any of the latest Warcry updates.
NinthMusketeer wrote: It's only fixed for the AoS version, where it all blends together in one unit anyways. In Warcry only the leader can't be taken in multiples.
Sorry, I mean 'fixed' as in: you want a mutant? It's Fleshrend Goatlegs or nobody, buddy. No choice of what mutant you want to take (outside of hacking some limbs off yourself, of course... )
Ah, gotcha, thank you for the clarification.
Though I am a big fan of hacking limbs off to replace them...
DaveC wrote: Ugh Compendium incoming - could be worse at least everything is in 1 book rather than 4.
Of course, you’ll also be able to bring your warbands from the first edition of Warcry into the Gnarlwood. More than 800 fighters are getting fully updated rules, including new profiles and warband reactions, all of which you’ll be able to find in the Warcry Compendium, which will be out just a couple of weeks after the new boxed set. This weighty tome covers every warband from Grand Alliance Order, Chaos, Death, and Destruction, alongside their Allies, Monsters and Thralls. It’s the essential companion for any existing Warcry player.
I'm kind of wary on this too....though I do agree 1 book is a much better option than 4. I guess it depends on how the "new profiles" are. If they actually took the the time to rebalance the stats of some of the weaker factions (Iron Golems and Fyreslayers come to mind) and tone down some of the stronger stuff - I have absolutely no problem paying for a new book for the new edition. If it is literally just copy/pasted old stuff with a one or two sentence reaction that feels a bit cheap.
John D Law wrote: By the way did anyone notice in the war and fluff the mention of the Serephon void ship? 😳 Could this be a subtle hint of what may be finally returning to 40k?
More hopefully a hint of a model refresh for seraphon. I’m hoping something along the lines of a stargate look but Mayan instead of egyptian.
I see a lot of the original warbands are sold out- no longer available on the US GW website. I wonder if this means they’re done producing them or if they’ll be repackaged.
Also makes me wonder if I should pick some of them up online before the prices balloon.
DaveC wrote: Ugh Compendium incoming - could be worse at least everything is in 1 book rather than 4.
Of course, you’ll also be able to bring your warbands from the first edition of Warcry into the Gnarlwood. More than 800 fighters are getting fully updated rules, including new profiles and warband reactions, all of which you’ll be able to find in the Warcry Compendium, which will be out just a couple of weeks after the new boxed set. This weighty tome covers every warband from Grand Alliance Order, Chaos, Death, and Destruction, alongside their Allies, Monsters and Thralls. It’s the essential companion for any existing Warcry player.
I'm kind of wary on this too....though I do agree 1 book is a much better option than 4. I guess it depends on how the "new profiles" are. If they actually took the the time to rebalance the stats of some of the weaker factions (Iron Golems and Fyreslayers come to mind) and tone down some of the stronger stuff - I have absolutely no problem paying for a new book for the new edition. If it is literally just copy/pasted old stuff with a one or two sentence reaction that feels a bit cheap.
Accolade wrote: I see a lot of the original warbands are sold out- no longer available on the US GW website. I wonder if this means they’re done producing them or if they’ll be repackaged.
Also makes me wonder if I should pick some of them up online before the prices balloon.
They moved to the Slaves to Darkness army section of Age of Sigmar a while back. They were reboxed for $15 more but with double the model count. They don’t have the physical cards but some were outdated anyway (and all will be when next version drops).
It might be that after several balance passes GW is going to update the cards in the box for those forces and thus they are sold out (esp overseas) whilst GW waits for a fresh wave of reprints. However GW are REALLY strange in that whilst they love cards they only ever seem to make one big order and then never or rarely, re-order.
It would be a shame for them to go the Underworlds pathway with this game of either retiring the models with cards options and just having models for sale only; or retiring them into the range rotation.
At the same time only 1 of the warband sets (with new models) is non-slaves to darkness.
Seems solid to me since it comes with a rulebook. It is pricey, but the Warcry kits are more or less the highest quality miniatures out there. At least for me, since the break hazard on resin is very real
I could be blinded by how much I love those long, hard, woody shafts of bamboo sticking up and out and touching everything.
Good for you. Plenty of us prefer genuine products instead.
It's a bit steep for my taste but not unaffordable. I might wait for a while before investing though. It's not the price of any single box that scares me, it's the thought of buying four boxes for a season to complete a set.
Sooo about the Legionnaires, I just remembered this ~2018 AOS image with a bunch of similarly equipped folks apparently fighting Chaos (left half, compare the helmets, round shields etc) - throwaway concept or possible non-chaos Cities of Sigmar equivalent? Sorry if this was discussed before, didn't see it in this thread tho.
You still have to pay the resin, the printer alone won't print anything without it.
Also, you'll need good resin. Not cheap, brittle one that snaps when you have the unfortune to grab it a bit too strong. Don't forget the products needed to wash it after printing.
Oh, and also pay for the files that have the same quality for the terrain and miniatures you want.
But otherwise, after another 100 €, yeah you can have your fun with your new printed miniatures.
(I own one, by the way, so I know the true cost of all you really need for 3D printing. It's more expensive than a mere Heart of Ghur box, not even talking about VAT and import taxes of course - all of those that are already included in the GW prices, by the way )
As for this new edition...I'm waiting to see the real changes of the rules. I'm a bit raising my eyebrows at these new "profiles", they look awfully exactly the same than before so far. If the real change is just bringing new reactions...That's not really new, actually (they were introduced in a previous Warcry compendium, after all).
You still have to pay the resin, the printer alone won't print anything without it.
Also, you'll need good resin. Not cheap, brittle one that snaps when you have the unfortune to grab it a bit too strong. Don't forget the products needed to wash it after printing.
Oh, and also pay for the files that have the same quality for the terrain and miniatures you want.
But otherwise, after another 100 €, yeah you can have your fun with your new printed miniatures.
(I own one, by the way, so I know the true cost of all you really need for 3D printing. It's more expensive than a mere Heart of Ghur box, not even talking about VAT and import taxes of course - all of those that are already included in the GW prices, by the way )
As for this new edition...I'm waiting to see the real changes of the rules. I'm a bit raising my eyebrows at these new "profiles", they look awfully exactly the same than before so far. If the real change is just bringing new reactions...That's not really new, actually (they were introduced in a previous Warcry compendium, after all).
Don't feed the troll... He's clearly not interested in a proper discussion.
You still have to pay the resin, the printer alone won't print anything without it.
Also, you'll need good resin. Not cheap, brittle one that snaps when you have the unfortune to grab it a bit too strong. Don't forget the products needed to wash it after printing.
Oh, and also pay for the files that have the same quality for the terrain and miniatures you want.
But otherwise, after another 100 €, yeah you can have your fun with your new printed miniatures.
(I own one, by the way, so I know the true cost of all you really need for 3D printing. It's more expensive than a mere Heart of Ghur box, not even talking about VAT and import taxes of course - all of those that are already included in the GW prices, by the way )
As for this new edition...I'm waiting to see the real changes of the rules. I'm a bit raising my eyebrows at these new "profiles", they look awfully exactly the same than before so far. If the real change is just bringing new reactions...That's not really new, actually (they were introduced in a previous Warcry compendium, after all).
Don't feed the troll... He's clearly not interested in a proper discussion.
"Everyone I don't agree with is a troll
Even if they've been on this side for over a decade more than me and have thousands more posts."
You still have to pay the resin, the printer alone won't print anything without it.
Also, you'll need good resin. Not cheap, brittle one that snaps when you have the unfortune to grab it a bit too strong. Don't forget the products needed to wash it after printing.
Oh, and also pay for the files that have the same quality for the terrain and miniatures you want.
But otherwise, after another 100 €, yeah you can have your fun with your new printed miniatures.
(I own one, by the way, so I know the true cost of all you really need for 3D printing. It's more expensive than a mere Heart of Ghur box, not even talking about VAT and import taxes of course - all of those that are already included in the GW prices, by the way )
As for this new edition...I'm waiting to see the real changes of the rules. I'm a bit raising my eyebrows at these new "profiles", they look awfully exactly the same than before so far. If the real change is just bringing new reactions...That's not really new, actually (they were introduced in a previous Warcry compendium, after all).
Don't feed the troll... He's clearly not interested in a proper discussion.
"Everyone I don't agree with is a troll
Even if they've been on this side for over a decade more than me and have thousands more posts."
Nope... But he's comparing a) apples to oranges (which means he takes RRP for the set vs. cheapest price for the printer), b) based on an offer that is not widely accessible (--> because that price only applies when shipping to ES or PT) and c) does not take into account the maintenance costs of printing and d) does not take into account the price of getting a 3d model and ...
The 3D printing discussion is offtopic anyway. But why is it still a discussion at this point?
If you don’t own a printer and want something like the models from the Heart of Ghur box (even if just the plastic, ignoring the paper/cardboard stuff): better buy the box. Apart from ‚hidden‘ costs you save yourself a lot of hassle with setting up, cleaning etc.
If you need another hobby and/or want a large number of minis at a more affordable price: get a printer.
I have a Mars 3, I like it and am probably past breaking even with costs. But I still buy the plastic minis which I like.
"This box of 20 minis costs the same as a machine that makes minis" is a valid argument.
I've had printers for 3 years now and I've still bought all the Warcry sets up to Red Harvest so far... even Catacombs. But this is my breaking point. GW is back to 2010 level completely insane greed. No doubt defended by trolls screaming production costs are through the roof... yes, thanks to Wargames Atlantic, we know exactly how much. Pennies per box. There's no justification for a 40% price increase compred to the original starter 3 years ago, with significantly less stuff in the box to boot.
Excelent way to get health issues from poison fumes.
Also then either different looking models or you support talentless copycat leeches(likely outsourcinj stl file design to india/china for cheap workforce since no talent needed)
lord_blackfang wrote: "This box of 20 minis costs the same as a machine that makes minis" is a valid argument.
I've had printers for 3 years now and I've still bought all the Warcry sets up to Red Harvest so far... even Catacombs. But this is my breaking point. GW is back to 2010 level completely insane greed. No doubt defended by trolls screaming production costs are through the roof... yes, thanks to Wargames Atlantic, we know exactly how much. Pennies per box. There's no justification for a 40% price increase compred to the original starter 3 years ago, with significantly less stuff in the box to boot.
The justification is "there's a sucker born every minute"
I am tentatively excited for the new counter rules. It seems neat. I am more concerned if they balanced the warbands better in the new compendium. Some of the warbands are just dreadful to play.
Scottywan82 wrote: I am tentatively excited for the new counter rules. It seems neat. I am more concerned if they balanced the warbands better in the new compendium. Some of the warbands are just dreadful to play.
I really don't mind the new counter rule they have shown, had more than a few feels bad moments when my Beasts Of Chaos Bullgor leader rolls three 6's to hit it just nukes something by doing 24 damage.
Having even a relatively weak way to respond is better than having no response.
It also makes you have to think more about how you use wounded fighters, and the generic healing ability since you now have to consider if your target has activated yet, how much life does your fighter have left, and do you heal them or use a combat buff on them.
NH Gunsmith wrote: I really don't mind the new counter rule they have shown, had more than a few feels bad moments when my Beasts Of Chaos Bullgor leader rolls three 6's to hit it just nukes something by doing 24 damage.
Having even a relatively weak way to respond is better than having no response.
It also makes you have to think more about how you use wounded fighters, and the generic healing ability since you now have to consider if your target has activated yet, how much life does your fighter have left, and do you heal them or use a combat buff on them.
Yeah, and I appreciate that it's in keeping with the overall feel of the game. It isn't really adding much, since it costs an action. In fact, it almost makes the Wait Action worth using sometimes.
Geifer wrote: Oh hey, that's neat. The last price increase gets superseded after four months. I was afraid we'd have to put up with stable prices for a whole year.
I think they'll raise prices across the board again before the year is over.
Basically reactions and campaign "camps", and new "updated" rules for existing warbands...
Reactions act differently than the previous version in the compendium (that used "left over" singles from your wild dice), but otherwise yes, there's no real earthshaking change. Good for me, means all the previous books I have are still easily usable.
We'll see the new campaign rules. I'll treat that as just another compendium with cool minis inside.
As far as I saw in the video, honestly reactions are mostly situationnal and really interesting if you play campaign rules and have fighters with levels of renown. Not sure "counter" is really worth losing one action. IMHO it doesn't have the same impact than in Horus Heresy...yet, it gives the "wait" action more purpose, which is honestly what it needed.
lord_blackfang wrote:"This box of 20 minis costs the same as a machine that makes minis" is a valid argument.
The same argument than making your own meals instead of buying it already made. It has no real validity in itself, simply depends of many factors...not everyone can afford the learning curve, space and investment a 3D printer asks for. And yeah, risking health issues if you value keeping it dirt cheap is also another decision not all will think it worth to be taken.
Honestly, if it's your breaking point after buying Catacombs, feel free. To me, this starter box has more value than Catacombs but hey, your point of view, not mine.
The funniest part of people saying "wow not at this price" is that once the limited box will be no longer available, buying the separate parts that will be sold later will be actually -more- expensive.
But honestly, I'm amazed people actually -keep- getting surprised (or fake being surprised) at the price when they get revealed. It's GW. You get all these reactions everytime. Not even talking about the same people writing the same things over and over.
At one point, one should remember that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting things to change magically by themselves. That's never going to happen.
If you feel it's too expensive for you, fine. Understandable. If you say it all the time and "faking" it like it's new /last time for you -this time-...well, don't be surprised if you are the one being mocked here.
And let's be honest : what price would you have thought this box would have been sold by GW, knowing the current situation we are in Europe right now with all energy / transport prices up everywhere ? 90 euros ?
Sarouan wrote: The funniest part of people saying "wow not at this price" is that once the limited box will be no longer available, buying the separate parts that will be sold later will be actually -more- expensive.
But honestly, I'm amazed people actually -keep- getting surprised (or fake being surprised) at the price when they get revealed. It's GW. You get all these reactions everytime. Not even talking about the same people writing the same things over and over.
At one point, one should remember that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting things to change magically by themselves. That's never going to happen.
If you feel it's too expensive for you, fine. Understandable. If you say it all the time and "faking" it like it's new /last time for you -this time-...well, don't be surprised if you are the one being mocked here.
And let's be honest : what price would you have thought this box would have been sold by GW, knowing the current situation we are in Europe right now with all energy / transport prices up everywhere ? 90 euros ?
The arguments of prices rising up so constantly and drastically, being justified by increased costs is - frankly - absolute bollocks and a pure excuse for corporate greed, as a certain miniatures company very recently showed to us this very year when they told us just how little the actual costs have risen over the years, and because of that, they thus found no reason to actually raise the prices.
Wargames Atlantic wrote:Globally the price of fuel has skyrocketed, which in this business means there has been an increase to the cost of raw materials (namely the plastic - which is up over 60% per pound!) Because of this, the production cost of a typical box has now increased by roughly $0.12.
Them shareholders aint gonna dividend themselves, you know.
On topic, I am guessing it’s going to be at least a $50 core book plus a $40-$50 compendium to transition your existing dooders to the new game. This is based on the kill team approach of $110 total for two book deal.
DaveC wrote: Compendium cover (not sure of the source on this)
If real, that looks a lot thinner than I expected. If it's softcover again like the other Warcry books, I hope it means it stays in the 35-37,50 € RRP range.
No, boyo, the argument here is that a restaurant meal should not cost more than a stove.
Except of course you can buy a simple stove for less than the price of a medium combo at the local McDonalds.
Which actually fits perfectly, because said stove would be about as useful in obtaining a Mac set, as that Anycubic would be in obtaining the contents of the new starter.
lord_blackfang wrote: "This box of 20 minis costs the same as a machine that makes minis" is a valid argument.
I've had printers for 3 years now and I've still bought all the Warcry sets up to Red Harvest so far... even Catacombs. But this is my breaking point. GW is back to 2010 level completely insane greed. No doubt defended by trolls screaming production costs are through the roof... yes, thanks to Wargames Atlantic, we know exactly how much. Pennies per box. There's no justification for a 40% price increase compred to the original starter 3 years ago, with significantly less stuff in the box to boot.
Well, there is one justification. People still buy it, even so. Until they don't buy it anymore, that will feel like justification enough for GW.
DaveC wrote:Compendium cover (not sure of the source on this)
"We're totally in Ghur, guys !"
Looks legit enough.
Hanskrampf wrote:
If real, that looks a lot thinner than I expected. If it's softcover again like the other Warcry books, I hope it means it stays in the 35-37,50 € RRP range.
The four alliance books put together aren't that big either. To be fair, death and destruction put together barely reach the thickness of the chaos book.
I guess they'll keep the background inside, otherwise since it's just updated profiles and they're simply adding one reaction per faction...it's not that much added space in the end.
Here's my thing; quality. Where else can I buy miniatures of that quality? What is the price of the closest comparison? Many of the individual minis in warbands sell in the $8-12 range on their own to RPG players who are quite happy with what they are getting. And I am MORE than happy to shell out premium prices for high-quality rules. They are hard to find. If this were a starter for, say, 40k, I would feel differently because the rules are worth a pittance to me.
Obviously there's a lot of subjectivity as well-I see many saying they won't buy it at XYZ price who also expressed they didn't particularly like the miniatures anyways. So I would question if/why they were going to buy them at any price. While the contents are particularly suited to my tastes and therefore have greater value.
My actual problem with the price is more that sticker shock is just terrible for trying to increase a game's popularity. While I feel the contents are worth the price --IN CONTEXT-- I do not think they serve well for getting people into the game. A larger number of lower quality minis for a lower price would be much better.
I quite like the bamboo people and the terrain, really. But as others have said, based on precedent I can expect just that to cost as much as the whole box when the kits are parted out.
It’s hard to compare a 3D printer to one purchase anyway, as you’d use it again and again.
If you already have one, files, resin, other materials etc, yeah way cheaper to get cool alternatives for all this box.
But then divide you’re printer cost by the number of projects you end up using it for, and add that on.
I don’t have one, would like one, but equally don’t want all the effort and cost that goes with it.
I’m still enticed by big boxes GW does.
Kill Team is swaying me with the hulk based battles. Gotta like both sides in the box too.
Warcry, don’t like the warbands enough. Terrain is neat though.
Have to add in the value of time spent running the printer as well, and the end product is of notably lower quality. The 3d printing route becomes a lot more appealing when looking at mass battle level games. For a skirmish game the real advantage isn't in price at all but customizability; one can peruse the immense amount of options out there to find a design that really speaks to them. So there is certainly a strong argument to be made, just the ones that have been made so far are strangely based on far weaker points.
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Danny76 wrote: Warcry, don’t like the warbands enough. Terrain is neat though.
Individual figures from warbands have very strong resale value, often to the point where one could make money from it even buying a warband at full MSRP. Though how much one values the time it takes to do that is another matter.
There's nothing I've heard about the new rules or the toys that are coming along with them that makes me want to move on from v1. I'm still having fun with it and haven't even played with all of the gangs I've got yet.
My actual problem with the price is more that sticker shock is just terrible for trying to increase a game's popularity. While I feel the contents are worth the price --IN CONTEXT-- I do not think they serve well for getting people into the game. A larger number of lower quality minis for a lower price would be much better.
Agreed. Launch set for a new edition needs to look like good value to hook people in. If you are marketing the game as season of four big boxes, you shouldn't scare people away with the first one. You can do it with subsequent ones but not the first. Initial sticker shock killed much interest in Necromunda Ash Wastes setting too, although the stickers that followed were equally bad.
Kill Team gets away with worse value every now and then if a big box is the first chance to get your hands on Death Korps of Krieg, Aeldari Corsairs, Chaos Renegade Guardsmen or other much awaited models.
It looks bad when whales such as myself start to second guess if we want to buy four boxes of Warcry and four boxes of Kill Team within a year.
I wouldn't expect a four box season to work for GW if the first box was significantly cheaper than the following ones. That runs the risk of people buying the first one and just not bothering with the rest. A little bit of honesty about the expected expenditure is probably going to be more successful as long as the first box that is supposed to get people hooked has enticing enough content to make that happen, with price being a secondary consideration.
I'm not sure Heart of Ghur does that, though you can see how they're giving it a good shot. GW is certainly trying to leverage a new setting as a selling point for people who want to vary their game up a bit after a couple of years in the Eightpoints. The terrain ties in with the current focus in AoS for crossover potential. I don't know if bamboo forest platforms is in high demand, though. It's different, but is it going to be popular? That remains to be seen. The warbands aren't extraordinary in any way. Warcry has had a good record of visually distinct warbands, and these just add to that lineup. Not bad, but not exceptional either.
In my opinion Kill Team has an easier time selling itself on the setting alone. Not sure yet how extensive the plastic offerings will be, but people have been dreaming of plastic Space Hulk terrain for a long time. Add an exotic niche team and new sculpts for models that didn't get anything in twenty years and it feels like a stronger box right there.
This is personal taste, of course, but I'm not sure Heart of Ghur is going to get people hooked in the same way as Kill Team. Sure it's great for people who like that style, but I don't think it has as close to universal appeal as Space Hulk 3D (in SPACE!). I reckon Warcry will follow the example of Kill Team, though, and have the first box be the full game with all the rules, dice, markers and stuff, while the extra content beyond the plastic in the following boxes is going to be severely limited, but come at a cheaper price than the first one. Make it seem like a better deal from that angle.
Kill Team has the advantage of it's teams either being resculpts, upgrades or entirely new units for existing 40k armies that people who have zero interest in the game will want to pick up, either from the box set itself or splits on ebay. Don't want Kommandos or Corsairs? Easy to get rid of. Don't want that CSM upgrade sprue? Guaranteed that someone will. 40k terrain is also easy to get rid of, although the Gnarlwood stuff could easily pass as a death world or sell to D&D players I guess. Navy Breachers are I think the first time they've done a team that doesn't easily fit into a 40k army (most people will have 0 problems using Traitor Guard as cultists)
They seemed to try and do that with the warbands and STD but the designs were so random and the rules implementations were so janky (like the Underworlds teams suffer from) it didn't feel as right as resculpting generic Marauders might. The Red Harvest Darkoath came the closest but those sculpts were too unique to want multiples of compared to the way Death Korps, Traitor Guard, etc look.
The only breakout was probably the Shadowstalkers because they were closer to a Kill Team release and easily fit in with DOK while being something new.
Kill team had an expensive launch box but got a cheaper starter box later on. By gw standards that box is actually a pretty good deal. Two teams scatter terrain and rules for £65. GW have been mirroring release strategies for 40k and AoS almost to a fault. It wouldn't surprise me to see a cheaper set for Warcry a few months later.
If we don't have a cheaper starter later, at least we'll have the core book for new edition and warbands sold separately.
Not sure we'll really have a "Kill Team" model with constant new starter boxes with new bands coming, because I believe it's mainly because 40k simply sells more than we got to eat it ad nauseam that way. And yeah, Warcry isn't that popular in the end, I have to admit it.
If we can have more new terrain and bands like they do with Heart of Ghur from time to time, it's good enough. I really dig the "realm-themed" terrain here, not just "generic ruins / dungeon to insert there". I'd love to see what they could make for Aqshy when the war season will eventually go to it and finally reveal the Incarnation of Aqshy equivalent teased in the Fyreslayer's battletome.
Sarouan wrote: If we don't have a cheaper starter later, at least we'll have the core book for new edition and warbands sold separately.
Not sure we'll really have a "Kill Team" model with constant new starter boxes with new bands coming, because I believe it's mainly because 40k simply sells more than we got to eat it ad nauseam that way. And yeah, Warcry isn't that popular in the end, I have to admit it.
If we can have more new terrain and bands like they do with Heart of Ghur from time to time, it's good enough. I really dig the "realm-themed" terrain here, not just "generic ruins / dungeon to insert there". I'd love to see what they could make for Aqshy when the war season will eventually go to it and finally reveal the Incarnation of Aqshy equivalent teased in the Fyreslayer's battletome.
They've already confirmed that's whats happening. New box with 2 new warbands and scenery every quarter. Same as killteam.
I do remain mystified that they so often leave individual boxed units out of stock in favor of printing bundle boxes offering discounted profits. I guess that they sell well enough to make up for the smaller margin and cost to community relations, but find it difficult to imagine how that could keep going indefinitely. Certainly in my area it has been easy to see the bundle boxes selling progressively slower.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Wonder how long that will last. I just can't see how that would be sustainable.
If it's 100% new terrain it might work, since a lot of people just buy it for that and resale value seems to be about 50% on Ebay which is pretty good, so there does seem to be demand for it. The new Kill Team season getting announced as "build a space hulk board" and WC as "build a gnarlwoood board" seems to suggest selling new terrain goes down a treat, whereas just repackaging older stuff might not.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I do remain mystified that they so often leave individual boxed units out of stock in favor of printing bundle boxes offering discounted profits. I guess that they sell well enough to make up for the smaller margin and cost to community relations, but find it difficult to imagine how that could keep going indefinitely. Certainly in my area it has been easy to see the bundle boxes selling progressively slower.
It makes sense to sell whatever gets bought more. Production costs are negligible either way. Sell a box that costs 50 cents to make for 40€, sell a box that costs 2€ to make for 180€, doesn't really matter.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Designers notes for the new warbands, and something like a roadmap for the coming year:
Indeed, so I was wrong about thinking Warcry may not follow the Kill Team model. Seems like it will.
They're talking about new warbands and terrain to complement your "Gnarlwood corner", so I expect we'll see more from the places shown on Gnarlwood's map.
There'd better be some seraphon broken spaceship parts in it at some point.
Well it’s all Ghur for these boxes we know. And then 4 more somewhere else.
Definitely works as a model. As they sell all those big box deals. Then later release warbands solo, like Kill Team.
Now getting it’s new run of four boxes, perfect planning.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Designers notes for the new warbands, and something like a roadmap for the coming year:
Indeed, so I was wrong about thinking Warcry may not follow the Kill Team model. Seems like it will.
They're talking about new warbands and terrain to complement your "Gnarlwood corner", so I expect we'll see more from the places shown on Gnarlwood's map.
There'd better be some seraphon broken spaceship parts in it at some point.
It does look like it's a little bit different than the Kill Team model. Whereas Kill Team has a different War Zone each quarter Warcry will have a year-long season (this year being 'The Heart of Ghur') with quarterly expansions in that season. I like that they will be spending longer in one location as you'll be able to get a larger selection of themed terrain and also a bit more background on that particular area of the Mortal Realms.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Have to add in the value of time spent running the printer as well, and the end product is of notably lower quality. The 3d printing route becomes a lot more appealing when looking at mass battle level games. For a skirmish game the real advantage isn't in price at all but customizability; one can peruse the immense amount of options out there to find a design that really speaks to them. So there is certainly a strong argument to be made, just the ones that have been made so far are strangely based on far weaker points.
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Danny76 wrote: Warcry, don’t like the warbands enough. Terrain is neat though.
Individual figures from warbands have very strong resale value, often to the point where one could make money from it even buying a warband at full MSRP. Though how much one values the time it takes to do that is another matter.
Yeah the customisation is all I’m getting some things printed for me for. Or unique looking extra models for Necromunda characters etc.
And resale yeah, I’ve done it before. Made more than the box price, with some models Still that’s profit and free models. But lots of effort
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Designers notes for the new warbands, and something like a roadmap for the coming year:
Indeed, so I was wrong about thinking Warcry may not follow the Kill Team model. Seems like it will.
They're talking about new warbands and terrain to complement your "Gnarlwood corner", so I expect we'll see more from the places shown on Gnarlwood's map.
There'd better be some seraphon broken spaceship parts in it at some point.
It does look like it's a little bit different than the Kill Team model. Whereas Kill Team has a different War Zone each quarter Warcry will have a year-long season (this year being 'The Heart of Ghur') with quarterly expansions in that season. I like that they will be spending longer in one location as you'll be able to get a larger selection of themed terrain and also a bit more background on that particular area of the Mortal Realms.
This season of Kill Team is all linked to one theme.
Space Hulk in this case.
So I'm sniffing around Warcry and the Heart of Ghur box. Is there any reason why one would need to buy the quarterly boxes that follow? They're just different miniatures and different terrain, right? Same rulebook, counters, etc.?
Bit tricky to tell at this point, gorgon. You could look at the Kill Team boxes as a possible approach, but we're really going to need to see the second one GW release in this format to be sure.
That's the "exclusive miniature" sent to GW shops. That's not the warband sprues that will be in the sold box.
Yes, they're producing a specific sprue for that.
Yup. And that just shows how cheap it has become to make molds for HIPS injection. The often quoted "it's so expensive, so the models need to be expensive too" is just wrong.
Yup. And that just shows how cheap it has become to make molds for HIPS injection. The often quoted "it's so expensive, so the models need to be expensive too" is just wrong.
Cheap is very arguable. Here, GW does it because given the sheer amount of production, the cost can be covered elsewhere - even if it's at a loss. Giving a free model doesn't mean it's free to produce, nor even it's cheap. It just means it's a marketing move.
gorgon wrote: So I'm sniffing around Warcry and the Heart of Ghur box. Is there any reason why one would need to buy the quarterly boxes that follow? They're just different miniatures and different terrain, right? Same rulebook, counters, etc.?
If it's anything like Kill Team you won't even get the rulebook and counters, just the sourcebook for the warbands in the box and terrain rules.
So for a new starter the Heart of Ghur is the best buy if you're interested in either of the warbands (or are happy ebaying both)
Hanskrampf wrote: Yup. And that just shows how cheap it has become to make molds for HIPS injection. The often quoted "it's so expensive, so the models need to be expensive too" is just wrong.
first time I heard that one
HIPS are the cheapest models because how they are made, but they need high numbers to make the initial investment worth it
having the option for cheaper molds just makes the number of frames needed to get the money back lower, the price for the models has nothing to do with it
GW is doing the limited run, special edition sprue for a very long time now, this is neither new nor something special
Hanskrampf wrote: Yup. And that just shows how cheap it has become to make molds for HIPS injection. The often quoted "it's so expensive, so the models need to be expensive too" is just wrong.
first time I heard that one
HIPS are the cheapest models because how they are made, but they need high numbers to make the initial investment worth it
having the option for cheaper molds just makes the number of frames needed to get the money back lower, the price for the models has nothing to do with it
GW is doing the limited run, special edition sprue for a very long time now, this is neither new nor something special
"HIPS molds are expensive" is the common defence for the prices of 25-35€ small single sprue models.
Hanskrampf wrote: "HIPS molds are expensive" is the common defence for the prices of 25-35€ small single sprue models.
A good offense is showing them Archon's kickstarters where sprues comes out to like 1€ each and the company tools 50 of them out of 1 million € campaign with enough left over for shipping, and, presumably, wages for the whole company.
That's the "exclusive miniature" sent to GW shops. That's not the warband sprues that will be in the sold box.
Yes, they're producing a specific sprue for that.
Yup. And that just shows how cheap it has become to make molds for HIPS injection. The often quoted "it's so expensive, so the models need to be expensive too" is just wrong.
These days I see far more people complaining about people saying that, than people actually saying it.
Not sure how this fits with the compendium - might be a sample or may be just limited to the original Warcry warbands - they'd hardly give the stats away for free and sell a compendium as well.
Warcry: Heart of Ghur is available for pre-order tomorrow and you'll be able to take your existing fighters into the depths of the Gnarlwood with free warband rules next week. Which faction are you going to try first?
DaveC wrote: Not sure how this fits with the compendium - might be a sample or may be just limited to the original Warcry warbands - they'd hardly give the stats away for free and sell a compendium as well.
Warcry: Heart of Ghur is available for pre-order tomorrow and you'll be able to take your existing fighters into the depths of the Gnarlwood with free warband rules next week. Which faction are you going to try first?
This is intriguing......Maybe they will just release some fighter profiles without the factions abilities or reaction?
Most logically would be to release all the Warcry bespoke Warbands rules as free downloads (Iron Golems, Corvus Cabal, Khanite Shadowstalkers, etc.) because the boxes of those miniatures say they include the rules to play them and I'm sure there are still boxes of them floating around in the wilderness. Honestly if they went this way, I would be pretty happy and skip the compendium....I always thought the bespoke warbands were more interesting.
That said it looks like they have included miniatures in the pictures from the various Grand Alliance factions, so maybe each non-Chaos grand alliance will also get rules for a faction (looks like maybe Stormcast,Kruel Boyz, and Ossiarchs?).
It would be a smart idea to include the rules for six bespoke factions that appeared in the older Warcry Starters, and the AoS Starters (Kruel Boyz and Stormcast), as lots of people have those minis laying around and would be willing to maybe give the new rules a try without requiring them make another investment.
Includes high-res sprue pictures and skim over the books and changes of the new edition. Core rules stayed pretty much the same except for reactions and a few tidy ups, narrative play has been expanded with some new mechanics like quests and encampments, and there is indeed one sprue less of terrain compared to Red Harvest.
Includes high-res sprue pictures and skim over the books and changes of the new edition. Core rules stayed pretty much the same except for reactions and a few tidy ups, narrative play has been expanded with some new mechanics like quests and encampments, and there is indeed one sprue less of terrain compared to Red Harvest.
Thanks for another great review Stahly! Glad to hear the core rules are pretty unchanged. Also really nice to see the comparison shots of the terrain. I am on the fence with box, as I was unsure how playable the board would be, as it didn’t look like there was a significant amount of LOS blocking terrain- but those trees are much bigger than I thought. Still might hold off and just grab the rulebook/ compendium as I have the original starter.
Had a few reviews on in the background this morning noticed that roving Savage Seraphon warbands replace the Furies and Raptoryxes from first edition might be time to paint that underworlds warband I have around here somewhere.
Would be nice if that translated to naked Lizardmen without all the Aztec bits who have gone feral and rely on their teeth and claws alone, but I guess if it doesn't happen alongside the first starter box, it's not going to happen at all.
This all looks amazing but I’m firmly on the fence still. I love the idea of 4 themed boxes over a year building a collection, but I just don’t think I can justify investing in both Warcry and Kill Team over this coming year.
I’m really hoping that we get full details about the Kill Team box while this is still available so I can make an informed choice. At one time I would have just bought it without thinking, but with soaring inflation and the fact that my pay has done nothing but decline in real terms for the last 12 years, I can’t do that.
If we don’t get to see the Kill Team box, I think I’ll pass on Warcry and take the risk of liking Kill Team’s offer more.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: This all looks amazing but I’m firmly on the fence still. I love the idea of 4 themed boxes over a year building a collection, but I just don’t think I can justify investing in both Warcry and Kill Team over this coming year.
I’m really hoping that we get full details about the Kill Team box while this is still available so I can make an informed choice. At one time I would have just bought it without thinking, but with soaring inflation and the fact that my pay has done nothing but decline in real terms for the last 12 years, I can’t do that.
If we don’t get to see the Kill Team box, I think I’ll pass on Warcry and take the risk of liking Kill Team’s offer more.
Just wait until you see your gas bill this winter. Its going to be brutal!
Geifer wrote: Would be nice if that translated to naked Lizardmen without all the Aztec bits who have gone feral and rely on their teeth and claws alone, but I guess if it doesn't happen alongside the first starter box, it's not going to happen at all.
I remember the Feral Cold One model that matched up to the dark elf cav models.
Geifer wrote: Would be nice if that translated to naked Lizardmen without all the Aztec bits who have gone feral and rely on their teeth and claws alone, but I guess if it doesn't happen alongside the first starter box, it's not going to happen at all.
It's just the existing models pictured in the book.
Roll a D3 at the start to see what round they show up. Roll a D6 at the start of each combat phase this is the threat number then pick any combination of Savage Seraphon that total the Threat number.
Savage Skink Starpriest (Threat 3)
Savage Saurus Oldblood (Threat 3)
Savage Saurus Warrior (Threat 1)
Savage Skink with Moonstone Club (Threat 1)
Savage Skink with Bonespitter (Threat 1)
Stats are identical to the current Sentinels of Order book.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: This all looks amazing but I’m firmly on the fence still. I love the idea of 4 themed boxes over a year building a collection, but I just don’t think I can justify investing in both Warcry and Kill Team over this coming year.
I’m really hoping that we get full details about the Kill Team box while this is still available so I can make an informed choice. At one time I would have just bought it without thinking, but with soaring inflation and the fact that my pay has done nothing but decline in real terms for the last 12 years, I can’t do that.
If we don’t get to see the Kill Team box, I think I’ll pass on Warcry and take the risk of liking Kill Team’s offer more.
Just wait until you see your gas bill this winter. Its going to be brutal!
I’m planning on seeing how many layers of clothing I can wear at once
Looks like they are giving away all 800 fighter profiles for free also seems to confirm the rumour that there is an issue releasing the Compendium.
We’re making it easier than ever before to jump right in with any faction, by giving away more than 800 fighter profiles from over 40 Warbands, plus their Allies – many of which have had their stats changed and rebalanced, with more than a few new tricks for you to try out.
Downloads for each of the four Grand Alliances will be made available from next week, all for free. The updated profiles on the fighter cards will be collected and released as part of the upcoming Warcry Compendium, which is coming out later in the year.
DaveC wrote: Looks like they are giving away all 800 fighter profiles for free also seems to confirm the rumour that there is an issue releasing the Compendium.
We’re making it easier than ever before to jump right in with any faction, by giving away more than 800 fighter profiles from over 40 Warbands, plus their Allies – many of which have had their stats changed and rebalanced, with more than a few new tricks for you to try out.
Downloads for each of the four Grand Alliances will be made available from next week, all for free. The updated profiles on the fighter cards will be collected and released as part of the upcoming Warcry Compendium, which is coming out later in the year.
This is great news, hopefully they include the new reactions for each faction. I preordered the new rulebook from someone on eBay breaking up the box, so I should be all set. Honestly doing this for compendium style content for their games in general would probably earn GW a lot of good will with a lot of the community.
DaveC wrote: Looks like they are giving away all 800 fighter profiles for free also seems to confirm the rumour that there is an issue releasing the Compendium.
We’re making it easier than ever before to jump right in with any faction, by giving away more than 800 fighter profiles from over 40 Warbands, plus their Allies – many of which have had their stats changed and rebalanced, with more than a few new tricks for you to try out.
Downloads for each of the four Grand Alliances will be made available from next week, all for free. The updated profiles on the fighter cards will be collected and released as part of the upcoming Warcry Compendium, which is coming out later in the year.
That's a nice move. Overall, I think they are treating AoS games way better than their 40k counterparts. All AoS profiles are still free in their app and not locked behind a battletome code. Allegiance stuff is locked though, but you can at least pull up every unit and have a look at them.
Geifer wrote: Would be nice if that translated to naked Lizardmen without all the Aztec bits who have gone feral and rely on their teeth and claws alone, but I guess if it doesn't happen alongside the first starter box, it's not going to happen at all.
I remember the Feral Cold One model that matched up to the dark elf cav models.
Was that a resin model for Storm of Magic? I seem to (very hazily) remember something like that. I would have loved to have a neutral Carnosaur that didn't stylistically clash with my army. Cutting bits off the existing model and resculpting its hide wasn't my idea of fun at the time.
Geifer wrote: Would be nice if that translated to naked Lizardmen without all the Aztec bits who have gone feral and rely on their teeth and claws alone, but I guess if it doesn't happen alongside the first starter box, it's not going to happen at all.
It's just the existing models pictured in the book.
Unfortunate, if entirely foreseeable. I guess I can't complain too much. Warcry actually gets pretty decent model support and we got a lot fo cool stuff out of it.
DaveC wrote: Looks like they are giving away all 800 fighter profiles for free also seems to confirm the rumour that there is an issue releasing the Compendium.
We’re making it easier than ever before to jump right in with any faction, by giving away more than 800 fighter profiles from over 40 Warbands, plus their Allies – many of which have had their stats changed and rebalanced, with more than a few new tricks for you to try out.
Downloads for each of the four Grand Alliances will be made available from next week, all for free. The updated profiles on the fighter cards will be collected and released as part of the upcoming Warcry Compendium, which is coming out later in the year.
Download that sum-gun quickly and save some back ups. They were so cheap with this for necromunda 17 that they would edit out units as the pay-for-play versions released. The free profiles were typically subpar comparatively but they made a point of forcing a purchase.
LRL have the new Enlightener and Sylvaneth have Gossamids and Spite riders. I don't see the Bladeborn (Underworlds warbands) in there hopefully they are still there but separate?
Looks like 1 alliance per day then and they will be giving the core rules as well - they must be really backed up on printing if they can't even get the core rulebook out. They did get a limited run of the Compendium done as reviewers got it but where asked not to show it at the last minute.
You read that right. We're giving away downloadable rules for Grand Alliance Order warbands, plus the core rules of the game.
Credit where due, thank you GW for making this improvement. Very glad to see free rules downloads, it helps a ton when trying to get new players into the game. Assuming the policy stays going forward (which is a big if, I know) I could see it really doing a lot for Warcry's popularity.
DaveC wrote: Looks like 1 alliance per day then and they will be giving the core rules as well - they must be really backed up on printing if they can't even get the core rulebook out. They did get a limited run of the Compendium done as reviewers got it but where asked not to show it at the last minute.
You read that right. We're giving away downloadable rules for Grand Alliance Order warbands, plus the core rules of the game.
Giving away the core rules of the game? Sorry DaveC but I can't see that in today's article.
DaveC wrote: Looks like 1 alliance per day then and they will be giving the core rules as well - they must be really backed up on printing if they can't even get the core rulebook out. They did get a limited run of the Compendium done as reviewers got it but where asked not to show it at the last minute.
You read that right. We're giving away downloadable rules for Grand Alliance Order warbands, plus the core rules of the game.
Giving away the core rules of the game? Sorry DaveC but I can't see that in today's article.
Giving out free rules is of course commendable, but the actual product seems like yet more phoned in dreck that doesn't improve on the existing balance trainwreck in any way. Especially disheartening are the mostly useless faction reactions.
lord_blackfang wrote: Giving out free rules is of course commendable, but the actual product seems like yet more phoned in dreck that doesn't improve on the existing balance trainwreck in any way. Especially disheartening are the mostly useless faction reactions.
Out of curiosity, could you give an example of such imbalance?
lord_blackfang wrote: Giving out free rules is of course commendable, but the actual product seems like yet more phoned in dreck that doesn't improve on the existing balance trainwreck in any way. Especially disheartening are the mostly useless faction reactions.
Out of curiosity, could you give an example of such imbalance?
Fyreslayer Vulkite Berserker with Pick, 1/4 damage. 65 points.
Vulkite Berserker with Axe, identical in every way except 1/3 damage. Also 65 points.
lord_blackfang wrote: Giving out free rules is of course commendable, but the actual product seems like yet more phoned in dreck that doesn't improve on the existing balance trainwreck in any way. Especially disheartening are the mostly useless faction reactions.
Out of curiosity, could you give an example of such imbalance?
Fyreslayer Vulkite Berserker with Pick, 1/4 damage. 65 points.
Vulkite Berserker with Axe, identical in every way except 1/3 damage. Also 65 points.
well that’s unfortunate.
Doesn’t make me hate it though.
lord_blackfang wrote: Giving out free rules is of course commendable, but the actual product seems like yet more phoned in dreck that doesn't improve on the existing balance trainwreck in any way. Especially disheartening are the mostly useless faction reactions.
Out of curiosity, could you give an example of such imbalance?
Fyreslayer Vulkite Berserker with Pick, 1/4 damage. 65 points.
Vulkite Berserker with Axe, identical in every way except 1/3 damage. Also 65 points.
Is there an ability allowed by the Vulkite with the Axe not allowed on the Pick?
lord_blackfang wrote: Giving out free rules is of course commendable, but the actual product seems like yet more phoned in dreck that doesn't improve on the existing balance trainwreck in any way. Especially disheartening are the mostly useless faction reactions.
Out of curiosity, could you give an example of such imbalance?
Fyreslayer Vulkite Berserker with Pick, 1/4 damage. 65 points.
Vulkite Berserker with Axe, identical in every way except 1/3 damage. Also 65 points.
Is there an ability allowed by the Vulkite with the Axe not allowed on the Pick?
Exact same card. Runemarks, everything. Except 1 does 1 more damage on crits.
lord_blackfang wrote: Giving out free rules is of course commendable, but the actual product seems like yet more phoned in dreck that doesn't improve on the existing balance trainwreck in any way. Especially disheartening are the mostly useless faction reactions.
Out of curiosity, could you give an example of such imbalance?
Fyreslayer Vulkite Berserker with Pick, 1/4 damage. 65 points.
Vulkite Berserker with Axe, identical in every way except 1/3 damage. Also 65 points.
Is there an ability allowed by the Vulkite with the Axe not allowed on the Pick?
Exact same card. Runemarks, everything. Except 1 does 1 more damage on crits.
If this is the worst we can find... I'd say the game is in a very good spot.
SKR.HH wrote: If this is the worst we can find... I'd say the game is in a very good spot.
The worst we could find on a casual skim of one grand alliance.
The game always had atrocious balance and with half the cards now out it's pretty clear GW doubled down on the AoS faction skew, if anything. Adding even more of the crazy models that the actual Warcry warbands have no hope against.
SKR.HH wrote: If this is the worst we can find... I'd say the game is in a very good spot.
The worst we could find on a casual skim of one grand alliance.
The game always had atrocious balance and with half the cards now out it's pretty clear GW doubled down on the AoS faction skew, if anything. Adding even more of the crazy models that the actual Warcry warbands have no hope against.
Can you point out some examples? I know it would help me to know what to be on the lookout for, I'm sure it would help others too. While particularly stupid the vulkite example isn't game breaking either.
Rihgu wrote: Exact same card. Runemarks, everything. Except 1 does 1 more damage on crits.
Just baffling.
Not really. Good chances are there's a misprint.
And if not...it'll be patched at some point in the future.
Not like it really matters, actually. People saying "balance was always bad in Warcry" are the ones always missing the point in games : it -never- had to be balanced at that level. Or to be more precise : the importance of small details like this one are actually irrelevant in the final result of a game that randomly generate victory conditions, deployment and terrain - not even talking about the ressources needed to use the aptitudes or the distribution of fighters in different groups that may come at a different time.
The focus being clearly on narrative games that are inherently designed to be unbalanced because bands that progress do so on different ways by nature means that perfect balance is not the real focus of this game - and that is fine. Perfect balance doesn't exist anyway. If it did, it'll be boring really quick and would go against the very purpose of a game : being fun.
Rihgu wrote: Exact same card. Runemarks, everything. Except 1 does 1 more damage on crits.
Just baffling.
Not really. Good chances are there's a misprint.
And if not...it'll be patched at some point in the future.
Not like it really matters, actually. People saying "balance was always bad in Warcry" are the ones always missing the point in games : it -never- had to be balanced at that level. Or to be more precise : the importance of small details like this one are actually irrelevant in the final result of a game that randomly generate victory conditions, deployment and terrain - not even talking about the ressources needed to use the aptitudes or the distribution of fighters in different groups that may come at a different time.
The focus being clearly on narrative games that are inherently designed to be unbalanced because bands that progress do so on different ways by nature means that perfect balance is not the real focus of this game - and that is fine. Perfect balance doesn't exist anyway. If it did, it'll be boring really quick and would go against the very purpose of a game : being fun.
An excellent and entirely valid point. However, extreme imbalance can still be disruptive on a narrative level and the edges of the bell curve need to be reigned in even within a narrative context.
That said the vulkite example is a different matter. While the imbalance is minor, more or less glazed over for the reasons you describe, it is a clear instance of one model being objectively better for the exact same cost. It feels bad for players taking the worse option as it feels like being punished for how the models were assembled.
Likely a typo IMO, such things happen and it is so minor it would be easily missed. My guess is there was a cut+paste of the graphic and someone forgot to change the point cost to 60.
Much more interested/concerned about the glaring imbalances mentioned, I really would like to hear what people think are the worst offenders.
I think it’s just a case of every model being a multiple of 5 in points cost (from what I’ve seen?) there’s gonna be a few cases where a model is strictly worse than one at a higher cost and strictly better than one at a lower cost. There’s a few examples I’ve seen of it now. It’s not a huge deal really but it doesn’t look great.
Rihgu wrote: Exact same card. Runemarks, everything. Except 1 does 1 more damage on crits.
Just baffling.
Not really. Good chances are there's a misprint.
And if not...it'll be patched at some point in the future.
Not like it really matters, actually. People saying "balance was always bad in Warcry" are the ones always missing the point in games : it -never- had to be balanced at that level. Or to be more precise : the importance of small details like this one are actually irrelevant in the final result of a game that randomly generate victory conditions, deployment and terrain - not even talking about the ressources needed to use the aptitudes or the distribution of fighters in different groups that may come at a different time.
The focus being clearly on narrative games that are inherently designed to be unbalanced because bands that progress do so on different ways by nature means that perfect balance is not the real focus of this game - and that is fine. Perfect balance doesn't exist anyway. If it did, it'll be boring really quick and would go against the very purpose of a game : being fun.
That's cool water carrying for a corporation and all, as usual, but Warcry actually always had loads of mission card combos that were auto win/lose for certain factions, and that's not something even narrative players tend to enjoy. Our local DoK player sure didn't enjoy his essentially unwinnable mandatory convergence mission and dropped out of the campaign after failing it 5 or 6 times in a row. We'll see if the minute changes to missions and core rules (like the movement restrictions while carrying treasure) mitigate this somewhat. Not that Warcry is even really a narrative game. It's significantly closer to Underworlds than to Necromunda in its design ethos.
gg everybody strawmanning that the only problem is a 5 pts variance between model profiles tho.
I am dissaponted with LRL, I keep looking at the profiles and abilities and wonder what am I missing. The damage doesn't feel it is there and damage migitation feels subpar. I hope Splintered Fangs got better end of the deal.
Why be part of the conversation blackfang?
Just to complain and call people that like the game and don’t mind the typos fanbois?
While you didn’t literally say it that pretty much sums up your posts
Rihgu wrote: Exact same card. Runemarks, everything. Except 1 does 1 more damage on crits.
Just baffling.
Not really. Good chances are there's a misprint.
And if not...it'll be patched at some point in the future.
Not like it really matters, actually. People saying "balance was always bad in Warcry" are the ones always missing the point in games : it -never- had to be balanced at that level. Or to be more precise : the importance of small details like this one are actually irrelevant in the final result of a game that randomly generate victory conditions, deployment and terrain - not even talking about the ressources needed to use the aptitudes or the distribution of fighters in different groups that may come at a different time.
The focus being clearly on narrative games that are inherently designed to be unbalanced because bands that progress do so on different ways by nature means that perfect balance is not the real focus of this game - and that is fine. Perfect balance doesn't exist anyway. If it did, it'll be boring really quick and would go against the very purpose of a game : being fun.
That's cool water carrying for a corporation and all, as usual, but Warcry actually always had loads of mission card combos that were auto win/lose for certain factions, and that's not something even narrative players tend to enjoy. Our local DoK player sure didn't enjoy his essentially unwinnable mandatory convergence mission and dropped out of the campaign after failing it 5 or 6 times in a row. We'll see if the minute changes to missions and core rules (like the movement restrictions while carrying treasure) mitigate this somewhat. Not that Warcry is even really a narrative game. It's significantly closer to Underworlds than to Necromunda in its design ethos.
gg everybody strawmanning that the only problem is a 5 pts variance between model profiles tho.
I mean, folks were asking for specific examples. Maybe they just didn't encounter the severe imbalances with the factions/missions they played. I know I haven't played enough to get a true idea of the balance, and I personally never played with the "warcry" factions, as none of them appeal to me, and I already have other AoS faction models.
You could a) provide your example politely, or b) be a gakwhole. You chose b). Time to add yet another to the ignore list.
usernamesareannoying wrote: Why be part of the conversation blackfang?
Just to complain and call people that like the game and don’t mind the typos fanbois?
While you didn’t literally say it that pretty much sums up your posts
You could a) provide your example politely, or b) be a gakwhole. You chose b). Time to add yet another to the ignore list.
Examples aren't hard to find, it just depends who you are listening to. The crowd of Warcry players complaining about "severe imbalance" in the game are the competitive part...mostly youtubers with a reputation to show (thus using antagonising titles and emotionnal statements because those are the ones that get more views).
However, these people play the game (or theorize it) in a very specific view, where balance is more an ideology than a real necessity. It's the same people saying point cost is the only way to balance a game and were spitting on AoS when it first came out or 40k V8 when power levels were introduced (a game without point cost ? HERESY !).
Here in the case of these poor Fyreslayer profiles, yes one is indeed more interesting than the other on the paper. Doesn't mean the axe wielding one can't be used in a game in an effective way (if you want to inflict damage, it's quite obvious these types of fighters aren't exactly here for that, they're more here to grab objectives and stand their ground). So the difference of 1 point in critical damage isn't really an important detail in itself : it only matters to people who focus on things they believe are crucial in a game while they're not.
As for why anyone would use a lesser profile instead of the other, the answer is very simple : because he wants to use the miniature. This, of course, is something the people only looking at rules will never truly understand ("why not using the better profile but the miniature you like as a proxy ?") because it simply goes against their ideology.
Yet that's still a valid answer in a game. Because the point is not to optimize at all costs...it's simply to have fun.
You could a) provide your example politely, or b) be a gakwhole. You chose b). Time to add yet another to the ignore list.
Examples aren't hard to find, it just depends who you are listening to. The crowd of Warcry players complaining about "severe imbalance" in the game are the competitive part...mostly youtubers with a reputation to show (thus using antagonising titles and emotionnal statements because those are the ones that get more views).
However, these people play the game (or theorize it) in a very specific view, where balance is more an ideology than a real necessity. It's the same people saying point cost is the only way to balance a game and were spitting on AoS when it first came out or 40k V8 when power levels were introduced (a game without point cost ? HERESY !).
Here in the case of these poor Fyreslayer profiles, yes one is indeed more interesting than the other on the paper. Doesn't mean the axe wielding one can't be used in a game in an effective way (if you want to inflict damage, it's quite obvious these types of fighters aren't exactly here for that, they're more here to grab objectives and stand their ground). So the difference of 1 point in critical damage isn't really an important detail in itself : it only matters to people who focus on things they believe are crucial in a game while they're not.
As for why anyone would use a lesser profile instead of the other, the answer is very simple : because he wants to use the miniature. This, of course, is something the people only looking at rules will never truly understand ("why not using the better profile but the miniature you like as a proxy ?") because it simply goes against their ideology.
Yet that's still a valid answer in a game. Because the point is not to optimize at all costs...it's simply to have fun.
So how much fun is it to auto lose because the random scenario is unwinnable for your faction? Do narrative players enjoy that? Or are you gonna keep claiming that the only issue in Warcry is a 5 pts variance between identical profiles? Who are you to even claim Warcry is a narrative game? Its design ethos is clearly much closer to Underworlds than it is to Necromunda. I suggest all of you who deny criticisms without even playing the game it go join an actual Warcry community on reddit or discord and see what's what rather then just defend GW for the sake of defending GW.
You could a) provide your example politely, or b) be a gakwhole. You chose b). Time to add yet another to the ignore list.
Examples aren't hard to find, it just depends who you are listening to. The crowd of Warcry players complaining about "severe imbalance" in the game are the competitive part...mostly youtubers with a reputation to show (thus using antagonising titles and emotionnal statements because those are the ones that get more views).
However, these people play the game (or theorize it) in a very specific view, where balance is more an ideology than a real necessity. It's the same people saying point cost is the only way to balance a game and were spitting on AoS when it first came out or 40k V8 when power levels were introduced (a game without point cost ? HERESY !).
Here in the case of these poor Fyreslayer profiles, yes one is indeed more interesting than the other on the paper. Doesn't mean the axe wielding one can't be used in a game in an effective way (if you want to inflict damage, it's quite obvious these types of fighters aren't exactly here for that, they're more here to grab objectives and stand their ground). So the difference of 1 point in critical damage isn't really an important detail in itself : it only matters to people who focus on things they believe are crucial in a game while they're not.
As for why anyone would use a lesser profile instead of the other, the answer is very simple : because he wants to use the miniature. This, of course, is something the people only looking at rules will never truly understand ("why not using the better profile but the miniature you like as a proxy ?") because it simply goes against their ideology.
Yet that's still a valid answer in a game. Because the point is not to optimize at all costs...it's simply to have fun.
So how much fun is it to auto lose because the random scenario is unwinnable for your faction? Do narrative players enjoy that? Or are you gonna keep claiming that the only issue in Warcry is a 5 pts variance between identical profiles? Who are you to even claim Warcry is a narrative game? Its design ethos is clearly much closer to Underworlds than it is to Necromunda. I suggest all of you who deny criticisms without even playing the game it go join an actual Warcry community on reddit or discord and see what's what rather then just defend GW for the sake of defending GW.
What you say is largely true for first edition, but the biggest change for the new edition is the narrative side of the game. The convergence missions that you mentioned have gone from the game. I have read through all the cards so far and the fyreslayer points is the only definite mistake that I have noticed. It remains to be seen how the balance changes introduced by the compendium will turn out, but I haven't noticed anything that looks broken on first read. This was not true with first edition. The reviews I've read and watched from people who have a history with the game seem positive.
This game is very much a my first Mordheim with a lot of the complexity and so also the choice of that game stripped away, but it makes it extremely approachable and I was able to teach it to my sister and my kids with ease.
As for the random missions, I personally love the variety. I played about 50 games of first edition before it started getting remotely stale. If you find a mission, twist combo that's unfeasible you can make a note to avoid it in the future and just play another game. 1 out of 10 or so games can be problematic but that's a much better ratio than most other gw games.
I actually found the convergence missions a weak point as you might find yourself having to play the exact same mission several times which goes directly against the game's strengths, so I'm pretty happy to see that they are being replaced.
If it wasn't for the price of the box I would be jumping into second edition right now but I as it is, I'll wait for the rulebook and play with the warbands I already have.
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