lord_blackfang wrote: Looking at my old book angain, I think the only thing missing is the faction-specific campaigns.
So it does include the rules of the game at least, then? Well, that's something at least. The lack of rules for everything not in the box seems in line with everything else GW does these days.
Still. 160€ for two gangs and some scenery. That is mental.
He confirms that the RH rulebook only has narrative play rules the open play and matched play rules are missing and you will need the Core rulebook for these.
DaveC wrote: He confirms that the RH rulebook only has narrative play rules the open play and matched play rules are missing and you will need the Core rulebook for these.
Yeah, for that price they could at least include the full rules of the game, regardless of what is standard mode of play. We shouldn't be expected to just settle for the next best thing.
Moving away from the value discussion for a moment, after seeing the 360s for the Darkoath I like almost all the models I wanted to see from a better angle. Unfortunately it confirms that Red Sonja isn't for me. She really should have skipped leg day. Getting a humongous axe positioned so close to such a small head is an unfortunate design choice to begin with, but somehow the designer thought it was a good idea to double down on the size mismatch by giving her massive thighs as well. It's a horribly unbalanced sculpt. They couldn't even be bothered to hide it with voluminous hair or an extravagant headdress. Aside from that, cool warband. I'll get one once it's released individually.
Looking at the stats of the Darkoath alternative builds, the axe on the leader with Strength 6 and the flail on Conan with Strength 5 seems like out-includes in a warband with more than enough Strength 4 attacks.
Blastaar wrote: No matched play rules, $210 sticker price..... Pass. I actually want to try WarCry, too.
Since you're in the USA at some point you'll be able to buy Bladeborn which is a simplified version with smaller warbands at Barnes & Noble. Not quite the same but a much smaller cost of entry.
Blastaar wrote: No matched play rules, $210 sticker price..... Pass. I actually want to try WarCry, too.
Since you're in the USA at some point you'll be able to buy Bladeborn which is a simplified version with smaller warbands at Barnes & Noble. Not quite the same but a much smaller cost of entry.
Agree. The contents look nice but given typical discount in USA is only 15% @ $210 it is a very easy pass for me as well.
Bwahahahahaha. Is this sculptor being paid by the disappointment? I'm surprised the people who are into that sort of thing are defending this, I would have thought they'd be the most let down by the terrible job they did making muscular women.
I'm more amused by all the people across various internet forums and subreddits mad that they look more like real humans and less like anime waifus, submissive and breedable. But I've learned that the gaming community is full of fragile men so...
If you just scale up and don't adjust for style, don't you feel compelled to say that about every human GW model?
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Joyboozer wrote: So, thinking your torso shouldn’t be the same length as your leg makes you a fragile man?
Ignoring the part about Togusa's jab, have you had a look at the 360s for those two models? This is a classic case of sucky photography. GW is skilled at choosing bad angles for their model presentations. Pretty consistently so. If you see how their legs are angled, this criticism doesn't hold up.
Though I can understand how you'd think so from looking at the original picture.
Bwahahahahaha. Is this sculptor being paid by the disappointment? I'm surprised the people who are into that sort of thing are defending this, I would have thought they'd be the most let down by the terrible job they did making muscular women.
I'm more amused by all the people across various internet forums and subreddits mad that they look more like real humans and less like anime waifus, submissive and breedable. But I've learned that the gaming community is full of fragile men so...
If you just scale up and don't adjust for style, don't you feel compelled to say that about every human GW model?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Joyboozer wrote: So, thinking your torso shouldn’t be the same length as your leg makes you a fragile man?
Ignoring the part about Togusa's jab, have you had a look at the 360s for those two models? This is a classic case of sucky photography. GW is skilled at choosing bad angles for their model presentations. Pretty consistently so. If you see how their legs are angled, this criticism doesn't hold up.
Though I can understand how you'd think so from looking at the original picture.
Jesus Christ GW, take better pictures, it’s effecting our masculinity!
Joyboozer wrote: So, thinking your torso shouldn’t be the same length as your leg makes you a fragile man?
Stuff like that I literally do not pay attention to at all and I still can't even tell what the heck you're talking about, the proportions look fine to me. I was taking jabs mostly at the people on various forums who have outright said "they look ugly, why they no look like anime girl."
Togusa wrote: Stuff like that I literally do not pay attention to at all and I still can't even tell what the heck you're talking about, the proportions look fine to me. I was taking jabs mostly at the people on various forums who have outright said "they look ugly, why they no look like anime girl."
So far the only people I've seen talking about "anime girls" are the people decrying those that are apparently saying it.
Can you put a scarecrow in a Japanese schoolgirl's outfit, 'cause it sure seems like some people are trying...
People's opinions are always subjective, anyway. Don't like GW girls ? Fine, don't buy them. I have no problem with those personnally, so good for me. Especially because I bought the box with them. If humans are forced to live in a land dominated by Chaos, makes sense they end up like this : more to the muscles, less to the brain and even less to the appearance.
As for the rules...they are complete to play the content in the box. "but matched play ! but the content from the core rules sold separately !"...well, that makes the core rules book still relevant that way. Sure good for players who already bought it (hey at least I don't have to put my copy in the trash directly). Not even sure it sucks that much for new players, because well...you don't exactly need rules for matched play in Warcry, since the profiles are either in the cards or the grand alliance books and, most important, specific rules for matched play are just randomization of scenarios.
Pretty sure the scenarios in Red Harvest will be more than enough to play matched play if your desire is such. Not to say that not all games need to be played matched play at all costs, thank you - and GW doesn't have to include all the rules in a themed starter box just because you don't like it that way. Warcry was always more fit for narrative games, IMHO.
So complaining about that is more nitpicking from people who never wanted to play Warcry anyway, as far as I'm concerned. Because let's be honest : if you want to play matched play, there are good chances the core rules books and the grand alliance books you want to play are more relevant for you than Red Harvest. Also way cheaper.
Chikout wrote: This angle looks much better. The majority of the problems come from the black facepaint, the heavy shading and the extreme highlights.
And the fact her face is too tiny for her head.
Not sure I'd call that a fact before seeing the bare plastic head. The top half of the face looks like it meshes fine with the back of the head. As best as I can make out from a picture, she combines a slim jaw with face paint that unduly exaggerates this feature. The former feature makes sense and is an easy way of helping create a feminine look. It's not surprising for her to be sculpted like that. I don't think the face paint helps, though.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Here's Laila Ali, a female boxer, multiple times world champion, undefeated throughout her entire career.
Note how she doesn't remotely resemble the Ravagers' gals, who look more ripped than Conan't, and have tiny heads with huge square jaws.
You realize that if she was straight up scaled down to miniature size she'd look skinnier than what in GW's super buff dudes style passes for a starved hobo, right?
I think the anatomy of the barbarian gals looks just fine.
They're miniature representation of someone who's pretty damn ripped like Brooke Ence. When you take the heroic miniature scale into account, the end result looks fine.
I agree that the faces look somewhat questionable, but as has been already been many times noted, it is quite likely that this is just due the paintjob. Now the heads looks pretty small on both genders, but this is because GW has recently been moving in more realistic scaling in that regard. Granted, having gotten used to more excessive heroic scaling which makes heads relatively larger it might look a tad off, and I'm not sure I like it.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Here's Laila Ali, a female boxer, multiple times world champion, undefeated throughout her entire careeer.
Note how she doesn't remotely resemble the Ravagers' gals, who look more ripped than Conan't, and have tiny heads with huge square jaws.
She's also not forced to survive in a mutated chaotic land.
Anyone forced to survive in a mutated chaotic land wouldn't look like a bodybuilder, cause it takes a whole lot of food and resources for effects that aren't useful to surviving.
Laila however, had a job that consisted entirely of being the best at beating the crap out of people.
Anyone forced to survive in a mutated chaotic land wouldn't look like a bodybuilder, cause it takes a whole lot of food and resources for effects that aren't useful to surviving.
Laila however, had a job that consisted entirely of being the best at beating the crap out of people.
There's a difference between a professionnal athlete in our modern world and a barbarian living in a savage world with monsters and cataclysmic events making life a constant struggle of all instants.
It "being a job" doesn't mean she's fit to survive in the Eight Points.
Anyone forced to survive in a mutated chaotic land wouldn't look like a bodybuilder, cause it takes a whole lot of food and resources for effects that aren't useful to surviving.
Laila however, had a job that consisted entirely of being the best at beating the crap out of people.
There's a difference between a professionnal athlete in our modern world and a barbarian living in a savage world with monsters and cataclysmic events making life a constant struggle of all instants.
It "being a job" doesn't mean she's fit to survive in the Eight Points.
Yeah but professional athletes are more likely to survive in the Eight Points than bodybuilders, as professional athletes are performance-oriented, while bodybuilders, with their extremely visible muscles and not a gram of fat are entirely oriented about looking good above everything else, and would probably have quite a hard time surviving without their protein shakes every 2 hours.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Here's Laila Ali, a female boxer, multiple times world champion, undefeated throughout her entire careeer.
Note how she doesn't remotely resemble the Ravagers' gals, who look more ripped than Conan't, and have tiny heads with huge square jaws.
She's also not forced to survive in a mutated chaotic land.
Anyone forced to survive in a mutated chaotic land wouldn't look like a bodybuilder, cause it takes a whole lot of food and resources for effects that aren't useful to surviving.
Laila however, had a job that consisted entirely of being the best at beating the crap out of people.
Very true, neither male nor female would look like that. But they do ^^
Yeah but professional athletes are more likely to survive in the Eight Points than bodybuilders, as professional athletes are performance-oriented, while bodybuilders, with their extremely visible muscles and not a gram of fat are entirely oriented about looking good above everything else, and would probably have quite a hard time surviving without their protein shakes every 2 hours.
Who said they were bodybuilders ? They're barbarians.
Very true, neither male nor female would look like that. But they do ^^
Good thing a chaotic mutated wasteland with horrific monsters doesn't exist in our world as well.
Honestly, I feel like you're trying to paint this as a big problem while it's not. It's a fantasy wargame. Doesn't have to be perfectly realist at all...and it doesn't have to lack muscular women as well.
So far, the face that is laughed at is mostly a question of how the picture was taken and how the miniature was painted. The miniature in our hands can be seen differently.
And if you really don't like the "small head" ? Cut it and put another that is more "up the scale". It's plastic, it's easy to convert.
Either way, it was never a big deal. Like all the buzz made on previously female miniature the same people were criticizing in the past. The real issue, here, is not the miniatures.
Very true, neither male nor female would look like that. But they do ^^
Good thing a chaotic mutated wasteland with horrific monsters doesn't exist in our world as well.
Honestly, I feel like you're trying to paint this as a big problem while it's not. It's a fantasy wargame. Doesn't have to be perfectly realist at all...and it doesn't have to lack muscular women as well.
So far, the face that is laughed at is mostly a question of how the picture was taken and how the miniature was painted. The miniature in our hands can be seen differently.
And if you really don't like the "small head" ? Cut it and put another that is more "up the scale". It's plastic, it's easy to convert.
Either way, it was never a big deal. Like all the buzz made on previously female miniature the same people were criticizing in the past. The real issue, here, is not the miniatures.
In case that's aimed at me, I'm perfectly OK with how they look. They're not realistic, and I don't much care.
Anyone forced to survive in a mutated chaotic land wouldn't look like a bodybuilder, cause it takes a whole lot of food and resources for effects that aren't useful to surviving.
Laila however, had a job that consisted entirely of being the best at beating the crap out of people.
There's a difference between a professionnal athlete in our modern world and a barbarian living in a savage world with monsters and cataclysmic events making life a constant struggle of all instants.
It "being a job" doesn't mean she's fit to survive in the Eight Points.
that would not make them look like Bodybuilders either, with live being a constant struggle, they would look more like a marathon athlete
There's a difference between a professionnal athlete in our modern world and a barbarian living in a savage world with monsters and cataclysmic events making life a constant struggle of all instants.
It "being a job" doesn't mean she's fit to survive in the Eight Points.
Making up alternate realisms to justify unrealism is "a wizard did it" level garbage apologism.
that would not make them look like Bodybuilders either, with live being a constant struggle, they would look more like a marathon athlete
Wait, are you telling me that the Age of Sigmar is not an accurate simulation of nutrition and living conditions to the human physique! That explains why my fitness plan of making ritual sacrifices to dark gods hasn't worked!
Yeah but professional athletes are more likely to survive in the Eight Points than bodybuilders, as professional athletes are performance-oriented, while bodybuilders, with their extremely visible muscles and not a gram of fat are entirely oriented about looking good above everything else, and would probably have quite a hard time surviving without their protein shakes every 2 hours.
Who said they were bodybuilders ? They're barbarians.
Anyone can tell they've got bodybuilder bodies instead of ones suited for survival or performance, if they take one look at then.
Yeah but professional athletes are more likely to survive in the Eight Points than bodybuilders, as professional athletes are performance-oriented, while bodybuilders, with their extremely visible muscles and not a gram of fat are entirely oriented about looking good above everything else, and would probably have quite a hard time surviving without their protein shakes every 2 hours.
Who said they were bodybuilders ? They're barbarians.
Anyone can tell they've got bodybuilder bodies instead of ones suited for survival or performance, if they take one look at then.
This is true. But as was pointed out, is also true of the males. No one watches the old Arnold Conan and complains about his body builder body... its fantasy. Works for both the men and the women... or doesnt work at all.
Its the same as fantasy elements in other places. On the ASOIAF forurm and cmon... this guy was complaining about the Antlers on the Baratheon Helms. There are dragon, giants, bear riders and lions pulling chariots, but antlers on helmets is just too far...
Either you like it or you dont, but if you are going to play the realism card you cant pick and choose.
that would not make them look like Bodybuilders either, with live being a constant struggle, they would look more like a marathon athlete
Wait, are you telling me that the Age of Sigmar is not an accurate simulation of nutrition and living conditions to the human physique! That explains why my fitness plan of making ritual sacrifices to dark gods hasn't worked!
Nice one
first argument is that those Barbarians must look like that because this is "realistic" and now the argument is that AoS is not realistic at all hence why those models do not need to look realsitic
if people say they look odd and they don't like them because for the reason that those are neither looking real, nor like a heroscale version of something, counter that buy "they are realistic for an unrealistic setting" is far stretched
They do look realistic... but realistic as body builders. Someone pointed out that they would not look like body builders for... reasons... but that would apply to the males as well, no?
edit: or is there another reason only the females are being targeted?
they look like fantasy body builders but the sculpts are still off
for reasons I don't know GW has a trend of let their models look wrong because they try to make heroscale fantasy look realistic
they get away with it because Aliens, Daemons or Orcs are not real creatures were everything wrong is because "Aliens" but with humans it gets more clear
they look like body builders with lumbago
don't know why the females are now a bigger topic, but after the first preview, the male one was targeted too as just being a bad sculpted body builder were the different parts of the body don't fit together
first argument is that those Barbarians must look like that because this is "realistic" and now the argument is that AoS is not realistic at all hence why those models do not need to look realsitic
if people say they look odd and they don't like them because for the reason that those are neither looking real, nor like a heroscale version of something, counter that buy "they are realistic for an unrealistic setting" is far stretched
They're realistic in a sense that they're roughly accurate depiction of muscular human physique. They're not realistic in a sense that we could accurately account them being muscular to their living conditions.
They're supposed to be big buff fantasy barbarians, and that's what they look like.
kodos wrote: they look like fantasy body builders but the sculpts are still off
for reasons I don't know GW has a trend of let their models look wrong because they try to make heroscale fantasy look realistic
they get away with it because Aliens, Daemons or Orcs are not real creatures were everything wrong is because "Aliens" but with humans it gets more clear
they look like body builders with lumbago
don't know why the females are now a bigger topic, but after the first preview, the male one was targeted too as just being a bad sculpted body builder were the different parts of the body don't fit together
I agree that the one with the spear in particular looks off. I really want to see the bare plastic before making any conclusions though.
I've asked a painter I know via Twitch who's gotten a preview copy of Red Harvest if she can have a look at the women from the Darkoath set, especially not-Sonja and throwing-axe-and-spear woman, to see how they look in person. Will provide feedback when I get it.
Bwahahahahaha. Is this sculptor being paid by the disappointment? I'm surprised the people who are into that sort of thing are defending this, I would have thought they'd be the most let down by the terrible job they did making muscular women.
I'm more amused by all the people across various internet forums and subreddits mad that they look more like real humans and less like anime waifus, submissive and breedable. But I've learned that the gaming community is full of fragile men so...
The thing on the left is a woman?
It looks really deformed.
Hey... a bit of respect for Sloth out of the Goonies. Hopefully GW won't end up with a court case for likeness.
chaos0xomega wrote: Any indication if the terrain will be sold separately yet? I don't want to buy 3+ copies of this box if I don't have to.
Might be a wait.
I felt like certain pieces of the terrain from the first Warcry boxed set were sold separately months after its release, but I don't believe we ever got a release for the Sigmar head ruins/wooden tower-bridge that accompanies it and the chaos spiky bits barriers.
The buildings/ruins that made up the bulk of the Warcry boxed set we for sure got a release for. It was in two boxed sets and they tied it to an exclusive water fountain thing that you could only get in one of those boxes. I think the bell tower also got a release, maybe with some extras.
don't know why the females are now a bigger topic, but after the first preview, the male one was targeted too as just being a bad sculpted body builder were the different parts of the body don't fit together
Females were targeted first by some people because of the view of barbarian women in their mind. If a guy shows muscles, it's okay, even if proportions aren't good. If it's a girl is muscular, it looks weird...mostly because these people aren't that used to see muscular women the same way than males.
It's not rocket science, honestly. It's purely a question of bias from my point of view.
That's why I say they're barbarians. They're depictions of fantasy barbarians...in 32-ish mm "heroic scale" miniatures. Of course the muscular women would look weird to people who can't accept that kind of vision. That's why we got picture of professionnal athletes as if they were arguments.
Realism has nothing to do with it. Not even the size of heads (they're the same size on all GW miniatures, by the way). Someone decided to make fun of that particular one because it looks way more "uglier" to him and other with the same mindset gladly piled on it. Because let's be honest : this is a very old topic in reality - how "realist proportions look like in GW miniatures"...and yet, some people seem not to understand that GW always made Warhammer fantasy/SF miniatures that look cool, not perfectly realist ones at this scale.
The reason why they did something much closer to that with Lord of the Rings simply for one reason : it was to be as close to the movies as possible. With Warhammer, it was never the purpose.
Smokestack wrote: They do look realistic... but realistic as body builders. Someone pointed out that they would not look like body builders for... reasons... but that would apply to the males as well, no?
Probably because people are trying to say the women looking like bodybuilders is realistic, while at the same time pointing at Conan as the reason they look like that (quite hypocritical). I'd rather have them all have a bit of chub on them. GW certainly can make more realistically-built Chaos Cultists of both genders, just look at Blackstone Fortress.
Also, speaking of terrain, if anyone is getting this boxed set, avoid gluing pieces together until you've seen all possibilities for that particular piece.
I recall a bit of controversy with the first boxed set regarding the assembly of the tower/bridge thing that would mount on top of the fallen Sigmar head statue. The directions would tell you to glue a certain part together (for the tower), then later on in the instructions for a different set up (the bridge), another piece was used where the part that was previously glued onto would be blocking it.
I bought two sets out of the gate so it wasn't a big deal to me, but I remember it was a big topic of discussion on the Warcry FB page.
Funny discussion but I have to confess that I didn't see any female at first glance XD Only when someone pointed they were female barbarians I had a closer look...
With that said the Conan one looks great but I believe there is a problem with female anatomy in 28mm at GWHQ. Gw style always has been about big cartoony hands and heads that somewhat works on males but when needs to be translated to a female it looks errrr... not that nice.
But then you look at some of the thin slender vampires and anatomy looks nice.
Smokestack wrote: They do look realistic... but realistic as body builders. Someone pointed out that they would not look like body builders for... reasons... but that would apply to the males as well, no?
Probably because people are trying to say the women looking like bodybuilders is realistic, while at the same time pointing at Conan as the reason they look like that (quite hypocritical). I'd rather have them all have a bit of chub on them. GW certainly can make more realistically-built Chaos Cultists of both genders, just look at Blackstone Fortress.
Sure, its possible. GW could make rounder fatter guys too. In those Strongman shows, the strongest guys tend to be bulkier (fatter) and less chiseled... and also have difficulty breathing and require oxygen more often... but are really stronger than the body builder guys...
I am not saying that the 4 darkoath women in this set should represent all Darkoath women. But dont find their inclusion as immersion breaking or less realistic than the males. Is there room for less muscled women? Sure. Is there room for portly out of shape women, or thinner "prettier" women? Sure. But I dont think there is anything wrong with the ones in this set. The sculpting issues MAY be a problem, but at this point i am not sure if that is a problem or not. And pointing to Conan, i dont think is hypocritical as he was portrayed by a body builder and is usually the first thing people think of at the mention of "barbarian". In Fantasy, we have room for Arnold Barbarians and Jason Mamoa Barbarians, but also Karl Urban (pathfinder) barbarians... We should have the same room for different iterations of female ones as well.
Now whether you think these ladies are "ugly" that is a personal preference... Whether they are ugly or not doesnt really factor in to whether I like them (i do). Again, not sold yet on Spear lady... but I do think that even if the sculpt is not great in hand, she wont be out of place on a table top mixed in with the other muscle barbarians.
don't know why the females are now a bigger topic, but after the first preview, the male one was targeted too as just being a bad sculpted body builder were the different parts of the body don't fit together
Females were targeted first by some people because of the view of barbarian women in their mind. If a guy shows muscles, it's okay, even if proportions aren't good. If it's a girl is muscular, it looks weird...mostly because these people aren't that used to see muscular women the same way than males.
"those" people targeted the male one first because the 3 identical Elven heads in his hand were bigger than his own, and that his body looked unnatural even for a body builder
the female topic came up because some people did not recognized the model with the spear as female, which brings in the point that for body builders the difference between male and female is not there any more of some obvious markers, like long hair and the face, are not there
this in combination with the models that look unnatural because something with the body & pose is off, now "those" point to the obvious point because otherwise it is hard to tell why they look wrong.
but the models have the same problem as other recent models, the basic anatomy is slightly off
The discussion is a bit muddy. There are entirely legitimate criticisms regarding heroic scale, proportions, realism, etc. Some individuals are and have been raising them in regards to the whole band, others are raising the same but only seem to be bringing it up because there are females involved, and finally some are just applying a clear double standard. It creates a confused mess of legitimate criticism being applied both fairly and unfairly.
So just out of curiosity, I did a google search for Largest female body builders" the following pictures came up. Now i have no other knowledge of the photos other than that... so i dont know if photoshop, or other shenanigans... but the photos arent that far from the miniatures... other than the weirdness of the spear one, which may or may not be the angle.
Arguments have been made about shoulder width, neck size, and waist size... but again these pictures kind of have all the same issues... And on the one lady, her head could be argued looks male... This obviously is not a strong argument as I have no idea if the photos are real women... but I can see what the sculptor was going for based on pics like these.
Note: Pictures not meant to offend anyone.
Edit: And Lady one has obviously had breast implants if the picture is in fact real. Lady 2, (picture 3) her head looks like it was sculpted too small, but does look more feminine that lady 1.
Spear lady's neck does look large. Not especially in the picture from the other angle, but again, it will be interesting to see her in hand. Or unpainted.
Mr Morden wrote: As worshippers of Chaos - anatomy is only a optional ground rule that is discarded whenever their patron decides they are deserving of a reward...
Pretty much, but to be fair, the Darkoath Savagers are very tame on physical mutations so far. They're not following the same path than Chaos warriors the same way.
nels1031 wrote: Also, speaking of terrain, if anyone is getting this boxed set, avoid gluing pieces together until you've seen all possibilities for that particular piece.
Did a quick Google search and this information is literally the first result.
I have two sets of the original Warcry terrain that I've yet to put together. Thanks for the warning!
chaos0xomega wrote: Any indication if the terrain will be sold separately yet? I don't want to buy 3+ copies of this box if I don't have to.
They'll probably split the terrain into two separate boxes, and some of it won't ever come out. And it'll be months from now.
In any case, I hope that this thread is an indication that there will soon be plentiful and cheap Darkoath barbarians available on Ebay due all the people who don't like the models but want loads of the terrain.
Crimson wrote: In any case, I hope that this thread is an indication that there will soon be plentiful and cheap Darkoath barbarians available on Ebay due all the people who don't like the models but want loads of the terrain.
Agreed. There is currently only one on ebay, listed for $80... But Im keeping my eyes open.
Smokestack wrote: So just out of curiosity, I did a google search for Largest female body builders" the following pictures came up. Now i have no other knowledge of the photos other than that... so i dont know if photoshop, or other shenanigans... but the photos arent that far from the miniatures... other than the weirdness of the spear one, which may or may not be the angle.
Arguments have been made about shoulder width, neck size, and waist size... but again these pictures kind of have all the same issues... And on the one lady, her head could be argued looks male... This obviously is not a strong argument as I have no idea if the photos are real women... but I can see what the sculptor was going for based on pics like these.
Note: Pictures not meant to offend anyone.
Edit: And Lady one has obviously had breast implants if the picture is in fact real. Lady 2, (picture 3) her head looks like it was sculpted too small, but does look more feminine that lady 1.
Second women is an obvious Photoshop, and im not sure the first one is legit. A much more credible source is the miss olympia winners and finalists
I found it very ackward. I saw the AD for Red Harvest advertised on Facebook when I was going through my groups so I read the comments. I thought I might as well respond. I posted
"This is a very nice looking kit but the price is out of control."
I got a lovely message from Facebook that said my comment violated their policy and it was removed.
The kit looks very nice, which is a positive comment and the fact the price has got out of control, I mean at $210 USD it has gone up significantly.
I guess Facebook sides with GW as I am sure they are the one who flagged it. GW seems to be trying to control everything even the freedom of speech.
angel of death 007 wrote: I found it very ackward. I saw the AD for Red Harvest advertised on Facebook when I was going through my groups so I read the comments. I thought I might as well respond. I posted
"This is a very nice looking kit but the price is out of control."
I got a lovely message from Facebook that said my comment violated their policy and it was removed.
The kit looks very nice, which is a positive comment and the fact the price has got out of control, I mean at $210 USD it has gone up significantly.
I guess Facebook sides with GW as I am sure they are the one who flagged it. GW seems to be trying to control everything even the freedom of speech.
angel of death 007 wrote: I found it very ackward. I saw the AD for Red Harvest advertised on Facebook when I was going through my groups so I read the comments. I thought I might as well respond. I posted
"This is a very nice looking kit but the price is out of control."
I got a lovely message from Facebook that said my comment violated their policy and it was removed.
The kit looks very nice, which is a positive comment and the fact the price has got out of control, I mean at $210 USD it has gone up significantly.
I guess Facebook sides with GW as I am sure they are the one who flagged it. GW seems to be trying to control everything even the freedom of speech.
I honestly could understand if I said something inappropriate. I am really shocked as I know I have said worse on Dodge Challenger and Chevy Corvette advertisements.
No issue with the flex-girls, what-so-ever. I have a friend, who has 3 or four more friends of mine that we both know that are full on work out fanatics and they are only looking like that on competition days, other then that, they are in the Gym, lifting. You look bulkier, you don't look like Competition standard every day of the week.
You look like that by starving the heck out of yourself, dehydrating to the point of passing out, and a lot of KY, or petroleum jelly.
After the show- it takes a few weeks to get back into your "Normal" life, again. Before competitions, you don't get to hear from them for like a month or so. and their diets are insane. They do that by a lot of protein, gainer and a lot of that bs from GNC. You don't get that by just doin your morning workouts, or an hour or so a day being trendy. They are in there religiously.
Some are in there for weights, some are in there for Iron man competitions, or those Sparta races. They aren't int here to look pretty, either. Then you got girls that are CrossFit junkies. They are tough, but smaller and cut more, but 90% less body mass, and 100% gristle tough.
You are showing the pictures out of context of Flex-Girls like that is how they look all the time. They look like regular people, but a little more physical build to them. So in short- The minis are also in odd proportion based on the sculpt. If you don't like those sculpts, get some other ones to change them out.
Send me those miniatures of deformed, horrible abominations, and monstrosities so I can dispose of them in proper standard Chaos fashion by Adding them to my warband.
I was a bit hesitant at first, but you add in these to a proper Lost and The Damned Warband, and you have some great leader / warchief models for the standard issue Chaos Marauder plastics.
Additionally a good thing to use them for is for a Gorkamorka Digga Mob. Nothing like a few Ork weapons to add to those minis, if they are too terrible for you to use.
PM me your godless heathen chaos flex girls! I'll get rid of them for you
angel of death 007 wrote: I found it very ackward. I saw the AD for Red Harvest advertised on Facebook when I was going through my groups so I read the comments. I thought I might as well respond. I posted
"This is a very nice looking kit but the price is out of control."
I got a lovely message from Facebook that said my comment violated their policy and it was removed.
The kit looks very nice, which is a positive comment and the fact the price has got out of control, I mean at $210 USD it has gone up significantly.
I guess Facebook sides with GW as I am sure they are the one who flagged it. GW seems to be trying to control everything even the freedom of speech.
I honestly could understand if I said something inappropriate. I am really shocked as I know I have said worse on Dodge Challenger and Chevy Corvette advertisements.
Does GW advertise on Facebook? It was probably an independent vendor’s advert and they flagged it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
NinthMusketeer wrote: Anyways... anyone else think the new warbands seem overpowered? Mainly the darkoath.
Certainly neither is “hard mode” like Iron Golems were from the first boxed set.
Voss wrote: Not sure if I stumbled on a new level of sarcasm here...
The GW Facebook gibber has been culled of price complaints for years now.
I for one am shocked to learn that GW fosters a cult of positivity and is sensitive about price discussions on the Internet. It seems very uncharacteristic for them.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Anyways... anyone else think the new warbands seem overpowered? Mainly the darkoath.
Certainly neither is “hard mode” like Iron Golems were from the first boxed set.
So is this a worry about only a somewhat notable gap in power or league of their own stuff? I haven't paid much attention to the game during the pandemic but I remember concerns about power discrepancy back in the day. I never saw much of that myself, though. At least casually balance seemed decent enough among the original Warcry warbands in the beginning. Not that I had all that much opportunity to play, mind you.
Has GW ever amended fighter cards in the meantime to get better balancing?
They made a handful of amendments when moving to the grand alliance books.
Broadly the game is well balanced in a casual sense. Notable issues would be Nighthaunt due to how powerful fly is (ignore vertical distance instead of measure diagonally), and 200+ point leader options not really paying enough for the stat buffs they get.
People say the AoS-ported factions are stronger than the basic Warcry-bands and it is true in a sense; they have plentiful of aforementioned leader options and are also more readily able to spam the best troop options (if model X is a bit too good for its points a Warcry based faction generally has 2 per box at most while an AoS one can just go buy a whole unit of them).
Every faction has its powerful and dud models, balance being what it is, but in a casual sense it isn't that bad; people just aren't wanting to spam a bunch if the same option most of the time and there can be diminishing returns when said OP options are specialists. Looking at Red Harvest, both warbands have several of their basic troop models are sporting notably superior stat blocks compared to what everyone else gets. That's a different beast, and they sti have the same handful of op (and up) choices elsewhere.
The darkoath double-down on that with an absolutely insane set of abilities. Their basic double alone is completely bonkers. That compounds with them having access to overtuned models using said abilities. I suspect they could be a serious issue.
The darkoath double-down on that with an absolutely insane set of abilities. Their basic double alone is completely bonkers. That compounds with them having access to overtuned models using said abilities. I suspect they could be a serious issue.
They're strong only when compared to the other Chaos warcry boxes. Otherwise, they have the same limitations : infantry-only choices lacking the usual strong combinations (flying, huge range weapons, big move characteristic, models with a huge amount of HP).
They have access to allied chaos leaders, but it's the same problem than Warcry boxes : they're allies, thus severely restricted in numbers (both in campaign and matched game mode).
Thus it's not bonkers to me. "Insane set of abilities" is not enough for that in Warcry, since they're also limited in the number you can use during a game. They're not always there like other characteristics.
Automatically Appended Next Post: What does the double do? Sure, it's not a static ability, but doubles aren't exactly rare and I never got the impressions that they should be more than little bonuses to tip things your way. Anything that can seriously impact the opponent on a double ability is going to add up and skew things without an actual need for getting lucky like the greater abilities.
Automatically Appended Next Post: What does the double do? Sure, it's not a static ability, but doubles aren't exactly rare and I never got the impressions that they should be more than little bonuses to tip things your way. Anything that can seriously impact the opponent on a double ability is going to add up and skew things without an actual need for getting lucky like the greater abilities.
There are 3 doubles.
One can be used by all of them, one only by the shaman and the third by their leader.
The first allows you to upgrade the fighter's toughness, attack or strength (choose only 1) by 1 each time you take down an enemy fighter during its activation, duration = until the end of the battle (no it doesn't stay in campaign mode after the battle ). The trick is that you have to use the double before attacking.
The second is the one that can give you multiple wild dice for your next turn depending on the roll you obtain (roll as many dice than the value and for each 5-6, obtain 1 wild dice).
The third allows you to have a bonus move or attack action if you take down an enemy fighter during your activation.
All are mutually exclusive by default since you can only use one during your activation (unless you only have one fighter left, in case you're usually already in deep gak). So that is already limited.
The second can only be used if your shaman is on the field. So if she's in reserve or dead already, tough luck. Also, there's a limit of wild dice you can use in a single turn, so being drown in them isn't always beneficial.
The first and third are powerful as well, but you have to take down an enemy fighter and you can't use other aptitudes in the same activation that are usually useful to help you doing that (unless you only have one fighter left, again).
They're strong aptitudes, no doubt, but that alone isn't enough like I said. You have to kill (meaning it's less useful if you fight a band with low numbers but very tough like ogors) or have a very specific type of fighter to use them. And they must be in position to do so as well. And none of these abilities don't really reinforce your survival (toughness is honestly not that important for that matter, since most fighters look for criticals to really do damage anyway - which is why I think Darkoath Savagers will mostly take the +1 Attack if they manage to use the first double). So you can still simply focus the most dangerous pieces of your opponent and drop their wounds to death like usual before he can strike.
TBH, the one that really benefits from these aptitudes is their leader (duh). That's why I'd tend to take a second one as first ally rather than other chaos leaders for combos - just having one means painting a big target on their head and he can't be everywhere when he's needed at the same time.
Geifer wrote: Thanks for the overview, NinthMusketeer.
Automatically Appended Next Post: What does the double do? Sure, it's not a static ability, but doubles aren't exactly rare and I never got the impressions that they should be more than little bonuses to tip things your way. Anything that can seriously impact the opponent on a double ability is going to add up and skew things without an actual need for getting lucky like the greater abilities.
Each time an enemy fighter is taken down during the activation you choose to upgrade toughness or the strength/attacks characteristic of a weapon. The effect lasts for the rest of the battle and stacks.
That's far from being OPIMHO, in Magic circles it'd be called useless as you're spending resources for absolutely no effect on the immediate board state. Plus it's not even reliable and it precludes you from using the power that does give you the absolute best effect in Warcy - bonus actions.
It's the idea that paying now for a bonus later is bad because you might not be alive to use it.
This particular ability is doubly bad because you have to pay for it in advance and it's not even guaranteed to go off. I bet 90% of the time it's going to be better to use the generic "+1 attack right now" power over "if I kill something with my next roll I get a permanent bonus starting next turn". Really the only mode you'll ever use is the + Toughness desperation move to hold an objective.
lord_blackfang wrote: It's the idea that paying now for a bonus later is bad because you might not be alive to use it.
This particular ability is doubly bad because you have to pay for it in advance and it's not even guaranteed to go off. I bet 90% of the time it's going to be better to use the generic "+1 attack right now" power over "if I kill something with my next roll I get a permanent bonus starting next turn". Really the only mode you'll ever use is the + Toughness desperation move to hold an objective.
Against most Stormcast lists, or even Beasts of Chaos with lots of large health models... the ability is likely to not see much use.
*shrug* it isn't like having the option overrides basic tactics. The situation arises all the time where a model is attacking an enemy model that is weak/near death and is going to die bar awful luck. If the potential for bad luck means an ability isn't good then that applies to almost all of them.
Bonus actions ARE great, they are rarely available on doubles though. When they are they have conditions attached, most commonly needing to kill an enemy first and said ability being limited to certain models in the faction. And the Darkoath have an ability which is exactly that.
Low-count armies do generally run a few cheap chaff models, but generally speaking yeah they aren't too worried. That's a minority of the game though. Perhaps more importantly, such armies are much more vulnerable to abilities that apply debuffs, especially if those debuffs can last for the rest of the battle. The Darkoath have that too, and on a model they were definitely bringing regardless of the opponent.
Bah, just shows what's the problem when someone looks only at the aptitude table and not the profiles.
Both Triples are available only to one type of fighter ; the debuff for the shaman, that you definitively don't want to put on the front line because of how squishy it is (and because you'd rather use their double instead), and the wrathforged for the offensive one.
That's it. It's thus very easy to anticipate which model will be used for that and to target it. By the way, both the shaman and wrathforged aren't particularly that tough, soooo...
As for the double that gives action, it's only for the leader. There are other doubles heavily restricted like this in other factions that give action already. Didn't make them particularly up on the competitive scene just because of that.
Darkoath Savagers are actually very limited in choices and struggle like all the other Chaos warcry cultist warbands because of that. Their aptitudes aren't enough to make them really competitive in comparison to other AoS factions.
I know Ninthmusketeer has put me on ignore so he won't see this like he didn't see my other posts last page, but it doesn't matter much. Can be useful for others.
I use ignore as a personal warning function--it tells me 'hey, this is a person you find particularly frustrating, skip it if you aren't in a good mood'.
At any rate, I don't disagree with any of that until the part about how the warband struggles due to a lack of choices. If anything that's backwards; utilizing a wide range of units from a warband is weaker than spamming the handful of better options.
I mentioned it before; the Chaos warbands have an artificial disadvantage because of getting only 1-2 of any given option per box. My competitive splintered fang list has 6 serpent swarms; there's one in the box. It also uses only 4 different models. It's success relies primarily on two factors--an overpowered cheap model (aforementioned swarms) and an overpowered basic double. Other factors are an overpowered elite option, a great double on the leader, and a support model with a useful way to spend high-value doubles. All of those line up with the Savagers.
That's neat. I was wondering if it was still getting a release at some point. Now I just hope that the two warbands get a separate release sometime soon.
Tome of Champions 2021
A bit of an indicator how far behind releases are.
Yep, I had the same thought upon seeing the article. Glad to see Warcry is getting some support and that Underworlds minis are getting some more utility, I almost think it would be better to kind of fold Underworlds into Warcry entirely at this point - its a great game but I don't see much signs of life in the community compared to where it was in the 1st/2nd season. I suspect it might have run its course and it might not be viable to continue it as a standalone product line. I suspect Warcry might not be too far off from there either, but it has received less support in general, perhaps merging the two games somewhat might be an imporvement.
chaos0xomega wrote: Yep, I had the same thought upon seeing the article. Glad to see Warcry is getting some support and that Underworlds minis are getting some more utility, I almost think it would be better to kind of fold Underworlds into Warcry entirely at this point - its a great game but I don't see much signs of life in the community compared to where it was in the 1st/2nd season. I suspect it might have run its course and it might not be viable to continue it as a standalone product line. I suspect Warcry might not be too far off from there either, but it has received less support in general, perhaps merging the two games somewhat might be an imporvement.
Outside of a few hotspots, Underworlds ("WU") seems to me to be on life support here in the U.S. However, it is going stronger in the U.K., Europe and possibly Australia. Which is sad, since I find it's gameplay to be significantly deeper and more compelling than Warcry. Nonetheless, I would like to see this 2021 Tomes include Bladeborn boardgame rules for those WU warbands, not just Warcry rules.
callidusx3 wrote: Nonetheless, I would like to see this 2021 Tomes include Bladeborn boardgame rules for those WU warbands, not just Warcry rules.
But at this time, Bladeborn is only available in the US, UK, and Germany. Unless GW expands the distribution, there is little incentive for them to create rules for more Underworld warbands.
Well, y'know, GW isn't helping the situation what with the massive price hike, changing the card backs and so on. There's also still the pandemic. Last game night I had was on Thanksgiving week.
The aggressive price push definitely halted my interest in Under Worlds. Warcry is great, but hasn’t gotten support apart from two pricey boxes sets, over two years, so it’s really difficult to maintain interest over that period with so little. Hope it turns around soon. The same potential that is drawing in people around Killteam exists with Warcry. I hope they don’t waste it.
chaos0xomega wrote: - its a great game but I don't see much signs of life in the community compared to where it was in the 1st/2nd season.
As an available, albeit anecdotal, example:
Current Adepticon signups has WH:U at 36/128. 36 is a decent enough showing I suppose, but the fact that they are no where close to selling out the available space is an ominous sign.
Dread Master wrote: The aggressive price push definitely halted my interest in Under Worlds. Warcry is great, but hasn’t gotten support apart from two pricey boxes sets, over two years, so it’s really difficult to maintain interest over that period with so little. Hope it turns around soon. The same potential that is drawing in people around Killteam exists with Warcry. I hope they don’t waste it.
They just seriously need to consolidate Warcry information. GW's biggest problem has always been dispersing of information in multiple books making it bothersome for anyone to collect a force or two. I have enough AoS stuff to field almost every single warband, and would even be tempted to add more, if it weren't for the fact that when the warscrolls for Warcry updated they came in 4 different 20 pound books.
I also fear that they are going to do the same mistake with Kill Team as the Ork Kommandos and Krieg Teams are in the Octarius book. GW just really needs to lay off snorting the book release blow and make the game accessible.
Lumineth box is a nice sampler depending on price. Last time around the AoS warbands were £36 (KO was £40 and Sylvaneth £45) but expect a boost up into the mid 40s. ToC 2020 was £20 probably £25 this time.
chaos0xomega wrote: - its a great game but I don't see much signs of life in the community compared to where it was in the 1st/2nd season.
As an available, albeit anecdotal, example:
Current Adepticon signups has WH:U at 36/128. 36 is a decent enough showing I suppose, but the fact that they are no where close to selling out the available space is an ominous sign.
Shame since UW is at its best state game wise since launch with many viable factions and playstyles, and generally needing less total packs then earlier seasons (though I suspect most players like me still whale and buy everything).
I, personally, chose not to go to Adepticon due to pandemic and lack of any interesting side events. In previous years I've gone mainly for the UW GT.
Nice bundles. Kruleboyz are a good addition to Dominion half and Daughters of Khaine could kickstart a new project while waiting for DoK vs. Nighthaunt battle box.
chaos0xomega wrote: - its a great game but I don't see much signs of life in the community compared to where it was in the 1st/2nd season.
As an available, albeit anecdotal, example:
Current Adepticon signups has WH:U at 36/128. 36 is a decent enough showing I suppose, but the fact that they are no where close to selling out the available space is an ominous sign.
Shame since UW is at its best state game wise since launch with many viable factions and playstyles, and generally needing less total packs then earlier seasons (though I suspect most players like me still whale and buy everything).
I, personally, chose not to go to Adepticon due to pandemic and lack of any interesting side events. In previous years I've gone mainly for the UW GT.
Was coming here to sort of say this. Attendance at major underworlds events like Adepticon and LVO is definitely going to be impacted by the pandemic. None of my active Underworlds friends went to LVO this year, partly because getting back into Canada is a total pain in the behind (need a negative PCR test to board your flight back - if you’re positive you’d better have extra cash for an extended hotel stay).
I would hate to see underworlds rolled up into Warcry. Warcry is fun but I feel underworlds is the better game. It’s suffered because of the lack of in-person games and the ludicrous number of price hikes that it’s been hit with in the last two years - yet despite this my anecdotal data point is that locally we’re seeing a lot of new players, apparently because of the Rivals rules making things more accessible.
chaos0xomega wrote: makes sense, the books probably went to print and were intended for release before harrowdeep was ever even announced.
Very true I forgot about the delays for a second
Threw some quick lists together to see what comes in each box (not optimised just a mixed list) Slaanesh comes out with the most points and SCE least all are well over 1000 points so there's plenty of options.
High Warden 120
High Sentinel 95
4 Sentinels 320
4 Wardens 320
3 Stoneguard Hammer 285
2 Stoneguard Mallet 210
Total 1350 pts.
Boltboy Boss 195
Gutrippa Boss 170
2 Boltboyz 280
4 Gutrippa Hakkas 340
5 Gutrippa Stikkas 400
Total 1385 pts.
Annihilator Prime Grandhammer 225
Vindictor Prime 200
4 Vindictors 580
Annihilator Grandhammer 145
Annihilator Meteoric Hammer 150
Total 1200 pts.
All of the boxes will give some options and more than one leader or hero option for example LRL also have a Stoneguard leader option, Slaanesh have a Myrmidesh Painmaster and DoK have a Gorgai and Witch Aelf Hag.
You pick 1 fighter with the leader runemark as your leader and you can also pick one other fighter with the leader runemark as a hero (you don’t have to take a hero). Then fill the remaining points as you wish from the non leader fighters. You can take an ally in place of the hero and chosen from fighters with the ally runemark and from the same grand alliance - this is how individual underworlds minis can be included (unless they update that rule for Bladeborn fighters)
I was hoping they wouldn’t go over £50, £45 ideally but there’s an exchange rate hike in there as well for the UK €65/$80 was £50 it’s now £52.50.
LRL is the best value while it’s £73 worth of actual minis for £52.50 you can’t buy half boxes of wardens or sentinels so it would cost £109.50 to buy the 3 kits. That one is going to sell out fast.
Article on “Siege” rules - attack a gate house for Warcry from ToC 2021 - attacker gets a free monster.
More tools for the toolbox God !
With the branched quests and the new narrative campaigns (I think the latter are the really juicy part of the book), it should be a fun sandbox for a while.
The Underworld bands are a good way for easy introduction to the game with minimal involvement, IMHO.
Good to see the narrative part is still the biggest of the three ways to play. Don't want Warcry to turn into AoS V9 "Tournament Edition" for a while, really.
chaos0xomega wrote: Only one I'm interested in is Kruleboyz, not for warcry, but because thats what I need to bulk out my big yellers army
Wouldn't Kruleboyz Dominion half be a better bang for your buck?
I already have 2 copies of Dominion, I don't need any more of most of the box contents, as I'm primarily intersted in boltboyz with a secondary interest in alternative weapons on the gutrippaz.
Hmm ... that $80 for the Sybarites is higher than I anticipated. May not buy them after all ... And looks like buying the SCE half of Dominion is to my advantage as it only cost me +$5 more than the Thunderstrike SCE box's MSRP, and I get more variety. Most importantly, the Lord Imperitant and access to Coordinated Strike on a triple.
chaos0xomega wrote: Only one I'm interested in is Kruleboyz, not for warcry, but because thats what I need to bulk out my big yellers army
Wouldn't Kruleboyz Dominion half be a better bang for your buck?
I already have 2 copies of Dominion, I don't need any more of most of the box contents, as I'm primarily intersted in boltboyz with a secondary interest in alternative weapons on the gutrippaz.
Gotcha. I'm just saying that there full/partial Dominion boxes available at fire sale prices. I picked up a second full box with torn wrapping and a mildly crumpled corner (no broken sprues) for 95 USD.
chaos0xomega wrote: Only one I'm interested in is Kruleboyz, not for warcry, but because thats what I need to bulk out my big yellers army
Wouldn't Kruleboyz Dominion half be a better bang for your buck?
I already have 2 copies of Dominion, I don't need any more of most of the box contents, as I'm primarily intersted in boltboyz with a secondary interest in alternative weapons on the gutrippaz.
Gotcha. I'm just saying that there full/partial Dominion boxes available at fire sale prices. I picked up a second full box with torn wrapping and a mildly crumpled corner (no broken sprues) for 95 USD.
My local shop, which doesn't discount anything, has 10+ Dominion boxes at $125. They do a point system which earns you 10% off future purchases with tuesdays being 20% off of future purchase. I was thinking about buying the Extremis starter set (one with terrain), but another Dominion might be in the works. I can make due on terrain.
Dread Master wrote: The prices on those warbands are stupid. So tired of the pricing strategy GW employs.
I'm looking at the Slaaneshi guys and it's "buy these two unit boxes, get half off the cheaper one". That doesn't sound unreasonable to me.
The problem is that the base prices for these units is completely stupid. You shouldn't pay 85€ for ten naked monopose archers and five elite infantry. That's what makes many discount boxes so laughable these days. The baseline is completely out of whack.
Also remember that these boxes come with Warcry cards and tokens which may be worthless to some but do have a value - cards used to be £6 on their own.
DaveC wrote: Also remember that these boxes come with Warcry cards and tokens which may be worthless to some but do have a value - cards used to be £6 on their own.
Above all, they have a production cost. Wouldn't be surprised it plays a part in the price rise as well, since it typically is produced in China and transport costs are completely insane these last months.
Previously, cards were needed to play because there was no other way to have the profile and cost. Now that we have books...value on second hand market has dropped. It's not really an argument anymore to try to find "value" in the new boxes if you don't intend to play Warcry yourself.
Dread Master wrote: The prices on those warbands are stupid. So tired of the pricing strategy GW employs.
I'm looking at the Slaaneshi guys and it's "buy these two unit boxes, get half off the cheaper one". That doesn't sound unreasonable to me.
The problem is that the base prices for these units is completely stupid. You shouldn't pay 85€ for ten naked monopose archers and five elite infantry. That's what makes many discount boxes so laughable these days. The baseline is completely out of whack.
Remember that it wasn't too long ago that all the Start Collecting! boxes were 65€ which had a chunk more content and offered discounts of 40-50%.
Dread Master wrote: The prices on those warbands are stupid. So tired of the pricing strategy GW employs.
I'm looking at the Slaaneshi guys and it's "buy these two unit boxes, get half off the cheaper one". That doesn't sound unreasonable to me.
The problem is that the base prices for these units is completely stupid. You shouldn't pay 85€ for ten naked monopose archers and five elite infantry. That's what makes many discount boxes so laughable these days. The baseline is completely out of whack.
My comment was a reaction more than anything. Thanks for stating the problem more explicitly. It was what I hoped the reader would deduce from my pricing strategy remark.
It's such a shotgun too, with similarly sized and detailed minis having wildly different prices. There are a number of 20-man infantry boxes with the same price or less to 10-man despite being largely analogous, for example.
Not the same scale, not the same size, not the same universe, not the same mold lines...
It's like saying "look at the price of a tesla and a volkswagen, why even take a tesla !!". It's because the one saying that has an agenda by doing so (ie "feth Tesla !").
Anyway, historical ranges have been here for decades. If everyone is not already playing Saga right now, it's because not everyone has an interest in doing so. Simply put that way.
In other words : the price isn't the only factor playing here.
So that's an across the board increase on Warcry stuff, right? Terrain excluded, but it doesn't seem like they sell Warcy terrain boxes anymore going off the German webstore?
Not the same scale, not the same size, not the same universe, not the same mold lines...
So which of those factors makes Warhams subject to inflation and historicals not?
They are, but you know full well that historicals are intrisically cheaper than fantasy/sci-fi by their very nature of being historicals. A huge portion of the work is already done for you through history books/internet. A fairer comparison would be comparing something like Infinity or PP or something along that nature.
Not the same scale, not the same size, not the same universe, not the same mold lines...
So which of those factors makes Warhams subject to inflation and historicals not?
They are, but you know full well that historicals are intrisically cheaper than fantasy/sci-fi by their very nature of being historicals. A huge portion of the work is already done for you through history books/internet. A fairer comparison would be comparing something like Infinity or PP or something along that nature.
...I mean, a majority of the work for ANY Marine related GW release has already been done before as well. Most of the Marine boxes recycle the same armor designs but "with a twist".
And hot dang, PP and Corvus Belli are NOWHERE near a fair comparison, they don't even use the same materials.
Not the same scale, not the same size, not the same universe, not the same mold lines...
So which of those factors makes Warhams subject to inflation and historicals not?
They are, but you know full well that historicals are intrisically cheaper than fantasy/sci-fi by their very nature of being historicals. A huge portion of the work is already done for you through history books/internet. A fairer comparison would be comparing something like Infinity or PP or something along that nature.
I assure you for almost anything outside the most charismatic factions WW2 and onwards, researching a historically accurate depiction takes more work than drawing a sketch of a Spehss Mahreen.
And there are proper, high detail, multipart minis with weapon options, full command, a billion variant heads, etc, etc.
Methinks soon we might all be playing SAGA or whatever.
If only that was what drove the market. Part of GW's dominance is the ability to find someone who plays the game anywhere. I am lucky to have lots of FLGS within an hours drive of me, but while some push other games, they all have dedicated nights and weekends for 40K, AOS and the boxed games. The stores that support Privateer press have disappeared (poor PP, that'll teach you to make transitions to crappy materials). Warlord, Mantic and others have just not been able to get off the ground with a competitive edge.
As an aside, Element has Red Harvest on sale right now at £85. Might be worth it if anyone was considering it. As the warbands are probably going to hit £30 a piece discounted now, an extra £25 for all the scenery sounds very good.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: As an aside, Element has Red Harvest on sale right now at £85. Might be worth it if anyone was considering it. As the warbands are probably going to hit £30 a piece discounted now, an extra £25 for all the scenery sounds very good.
Really just waiting to see the full reveal of what Underworlds warbands can be taken in which Warcry factions before I get Red Harvest.
I know Godsworn Hunt can be taken in the standard Slaves To Darkness warband... but I want the Underworlds barbarians in the Warcry barbarian warband dangit.
They're both multipart plastic miniatures, how is it a pointless comparison?
Because, unfortunately, the latter option comes with the additional price tag of 'and build a community from scratch'.
But aside from a store focusing on GW products... that is the norm for most games (GW included in smaller areas).
My main game now is Legion after a buddy and I started playing at my house, after playing a few games at our tiny Magic focused local store a community formed around us because we were having fun. Same with Warcry, Godtear, and now Battletech.
Didn't realize how spoiled I was growing up with pre-built gaming communities, but the leg work has to be put in by somebody at some point if you want ANY game (GW included) to be played or supported locally.
They're both multipart plastic miniatures, how is it a pointless comparison?
Because, unfortunately, the latter option comes with the additional price tag of 'and build a community from scratch'.
I've watched enough anime and horse cartoons to know that pulling together a ragtag group of individuals, making friends with them, and building a community is how wars are won.
They're both multipart plastic miniatures, how is it a pointless comparison?
Because, unfortunately, the latter option comes with the additional price tag of 'and build a community from scratch'.
But aside from a store focusing on GW products... that is the norm for most games (GW included in smaller areas).
My main game now is Legion after a buddy and I started playing at my house, after playing a few games at our tiny Magic focused local store a community formed around us because we were having fun. Same with Warcry, Godtear, and now Battletech.
Didn't realize how spoiled I was growing up with pre-built gaming communities, but the leg work has to be put in by somebody at some point if you want ANY game (GW included) to be played or supported locally.
And when that is factored in GW models are cheap by comparison. It's a lot of fething work and most of the time all it takes is something happening to that one champion for the entire community to evaporate. I'll never blame someone who chooses to put up with GW's shenanigans over that.
Sprues and Brews review - you can see the points updates there’s a lot marked with * where there is a change. Faction rune mark table updated as well Darkoath and Tarantulos are now under Chaos (Red Harvest missed that)
After pouring through my own copy, I have a lot of mixed feeling about the point changes.
Nighthaunt are still trash. Briar queen somehow made chainrasps even worse than they already were. It seems GW still charge a premium for toughness tax, and overvalue it too heavily, despite a lot of anecdotal and actual mathematical evidence contrary to what the designers assert.
Beyond that though, there is a lot to like about this annual. As a narrative player, its a whole slew of new missions and other bits to enjoy. Worth the asking price, and maybe one day GW will figure out how to git gud at pointing the models so we dont have to do it ourselves as house rules for casual games.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: As an aside, Element has Red Harvest on sale right now at £85. Might be worth it if anyone was considering it. As the warbands are probably going to hit £30 a piece discounted now, an extra £25 for all the scenery sounds very good.
Really just waiting to see the full reveal of what Underworlds warbands can be taken in which Warcry factions before I get Red Harvest.
I know Godsworn Hunt can be taken in the standard Slaves To Darkness warband... but I want the Underworlds barbarians in the Warcry barbarian warband dangit.
Yeah same.
See what I can make from it, potentially invest in RH if so..
Wiz Warrior wrote: After pouring through my own copy, I have a lot of mixed feeling about the point changes.
Nighthaunt are still trash. Briar queen somehow made chainrasps even worse than they already were. It seems GW still charge a premium for toughness tax, and overvalue it too heavily, despite a lot of anecdotal and actual mathematical evidence contrary to what the designers assert.
Got mine as well and while I agree with you about the toughness tax being overestimated by the designers, I think the main point of this modification about costs is more about raising the price of low cost models in general and lowering some specific profiles so that the number of models in most optimized bands doesn't get as high than before. It's still not enough to stop the problem of having more attacks being just the answer to everything and making high toughness models unnecessarily overcosted, but it helps for "softening" the gap between previous bands maintaining high number and heavy hitters too easily and "elite bands", IMHO.
Must say overall, I was very happy with the content. Underworld profiles add a whole lot of variety, especially with the optional rule to consider them as archetypes and not just named characters.
Nighthaunt all have fly--that is a massive advantage in mobility. Granted not every map will give opportunity for it, but the tactical opportunities it opens up are quite valuable. They need to be played as a mobile finesse army, despite their toughness they are not a straightforward combat warband.
I'm interested to see people say they are bad, as that is the opposite I have heard everywhere else. Our local NH player wrecked the field against all sorts of warbands, only having serious trouble against Splintered Fang for obvious reasons. Would definitely like to hear about you guys' experience, maybe we can start a thread in the appropriate subforum?
NinthMusketeer wrote: Nighthaunt all have fly--that is a massive advantage in mobility. Granted not every map will give opportunity for it, but the tactical opportunities it opens up are quite valuable. They need to be played as a mobile finesse army, despite their toughness they are not a straightforward combat warband.
I'm interested to see people say they are bad, as that is the opposite I have heard everywhere else. Our local NH player wrecked the field against all sorts of warbands, only having serious trouble against Splintered Fang for obvious reasons. Would definitely like to hear about you guys' experience, maybe we can start a thread in the appropriate subforum?
I think thats a good idea to avoid clogging up N&R. Would you do the honors? I will definitely engage, as Nighthaunt are my main Warcry warband out of sheer love of the models. I have much to say on this subject, boht objectively and anecdotally.
Im a little luke warm to the Hasn't warband as I wish they had stuck more to Chaos+ The Assyrian empire vibe. (I'm 100% fine with them all.being humans, funny enough)
however I'll still.end up getting them. They probably have a ton of.comversion potential.
The slave to darkness double gang box existed, and you should be buying that box instead of the single gang box, cards and stat are literally everywhere.
Chopstick wrote: The slave to darkness double gang box existed, and you should be buying that box instead of the single gang box, cards and stat are literally everywhere.
I wasn't actually trying to buy them. I was just thinking while Adam and Eddie were talking that the fluff sounded similar and couldn't remember the gang name. I looked for the store page first and couldn't find it; and then the search I ran turned up the expunged page, so I was curious.
Good to know they weren't ditched while I wasn't looking (they're one of my favorites of the originals, and the first couple expansions)
Followers of Hashut! Well, human followers of Hashut. Is someone trying to rile up Chorf fans?
The models are ok. With the whole bull theme I might add/ally some to the Bullgor list I have planned from Twisted Catacombs/Bestiarum Miniatures stuff to give the cows some scale comparisons. But human followers of Hashut and not a dwarf in sight
The centaur thingy is a very nice model, will be stupidly expensive I guess, but I'm tempted.
Chopstick wrote: The slave to darkness double gang box existed, and you should be buying that box instead of the single gang box, cards and stat are literally everywhere.
I wasn't actually trying to buy them. I was just thinking while Adam and Eddie were talking that the fluff sounded similar and couldn't remember the gang name. I looked for the store page first and couldn't find it; and then the search I ran turned up the expunged page, so I was curious.
Good to know they weren't ditched while I wasn't looking (they're one of my favorites of the originals, and the first couple expansions)
They rotated out, just like the wabands in WU, lets hope the models don't go poof like the WU in later year.
Kinda suck for them because the direction going forward is new warband instead of 2.0 of the bands, which some warbands like Iron Golem desperately need to compete with the ever expanding AoS warbands.
Iron Golems are still around, their culture is similar but of a different nuance since they exalt in the forging of weapons & armour; to then it is only about the product and any industry that results is incidental. The Horns seem much more about the process than the result. A subtle difference to be sure, but that is kind of the point.
Pretty sparse on details for warcry. No release date set (but likely in fall like the last 3 years), not much said about details of rules changes, other than biggest update since it was originally released) which leads me to believe this likely isnt 2.0, but more like the other boxes with terrain specific rules, but a bit more intense for the new realm of ghur.
So really, besides the new logo, new setting, and the centaurian, thats about all the news we got and must fill in between the lines.
Binabik15 wrote: Followers of Hashut! Well, human followers of Hashut. Is someone trying to rile up Chorf fans?
The models are ok. With the whole bull theme I might add/ally some to the Bullgor list I have planned from Twisted Catacombs/Bestiarum Miniatures stuff to give the cows some scale comparisons. But human followers of Hashut and not a dwarf in sight
The centaur thingy is a very nice model, will be stupidly expensive I guess, but I'm tempted.
They could just be tribesmen/surfs on the periphery of greater Chaos duardin nations that escaped or seek adventure over laboring for their short overlords. They are pretty well outfitted compared to the other Warcry cultists, but even their chaff are barefoot and seemly armed with farming tools.
I really like the bits of armor and other aesthetics that could hint to more heavily armored Chaos dwarves, much like Spire Tyrands have some looted/fashioned-after bits of Chaos Warrior look to them. Hopefully these models do more than just tease chorfs in AoS, because I am very interested in AoS chorfs if this is just a taste of what they might look like.
They literally said that the Horns of Hashut are the scouts for the Legions of Hashut.
The Horns of Hashut are one such warband. These mortal followers of the god Hashut venture out in front of his all-conquering legions, seeking lands worthy of domination. They’re the vanguard of devastation and despair in a brutal machinery of endless war… and they have some very impressive hats.
I'm a huge fan of the Horns and the Centaurion, I think they are both fantastic.
I'm also excited to see what Warcry in Ghur will entail. I just hope this isn't Warcry 2.0 and that there are changes to the core rules. If it's new environments/missions/etc. bring it on!
Kanluwen wrote: They literally said that the Horns of Hashut are the scouts for the Legions of Hashut.
Rather than just going "Well ackchyually!" and making excuses for/defending everything GW does can you please accept that some people might be annoyed that GW is finally giving attention to the legions of Hashut, but made them humans rather than AoS Chaos Dwarfs? Do you think you have the capacity for such an act?
Kanluwen wrote: They literally said that the Horns of Hashut are the scouts for the Legions of Hashut.
Rather than just going "Well ackchyually!" and making excuses for/defending everything GW does can you please accept that some people might be annoyed that GW is finally giving attention to the legions of Hashut, but made them humans rather than AoS Chaos Dwarfs? Do you think you have the capacity for such an act?
First step is iggy. Failing that, the second step is deletion of account.
The mods permit and encourage the idiocy, and when engaged, youre the one who gets moderated.
I am a firm believer that the only way to win is to not play the game. Ive already contacted Legoburner about deletion of my own account. He is kind enough to await verification of intent.
We can vote with our presence and words as much as we can vote with our dollars.
Silence and absence can be a loud protest when used well. The funny part are those who continue to run their mouths long after you have turned your back and left.
Dread Master wrote: “ but we can confirm that it’s a new setting with incredible new terrain and brand new warbands – some of which which may surprise you.”
Some of which which may surprise you….
Skaven Warcry warband confirmed!
Tomb Kings would surprise me. Needless to say, I doubt GW would oblige.
Other than that, eh? If we're out of the Eightpoints the only surprise I can think of is new stuff. Anything already in AoS has reason and ways to be there. So perhaps Malerion elves finally make their appearance or Khurnoth elves get more models after the Underworlds warband.
Or Fimir.
Chopstick wrote: They better be incredible because it looks like Red Harvest wasn't selling well.
And i'm still waiting for the Conan warband separate release.
Me, too. I wasn't keen on the spider guys at all. The terrain in the box is cool, and so are the barbarians, but the box price stopped me. Post price increase, even more so.
I totally understand some disappointment but I hope that what we’re getting is a Legions of Hashut army that contains not just chaos dwarfs, but also Horns of Hashut, hobgrotz, those bull centaur fellas and more.
I totally understand some disappointment but I hope that what we’re getting is a Legions of Hashut army that contains not just chaos dwarfs, but also Horns of Hashut, hobgrotz, those bull centaur fellas and more.
Not sure how good the odds of that are in the foreseeable future. We know the Horns are in the Slaves to Darkness battletome slated for the end of the year. Is there any instance of the same unit featuring in multiple battletomes?
I totally understand some disappointment but I hope that what we’re getting is a Legions of Hashut army that contains not just chaos dwarfs, but also Horns of Hashut, hobgrotz, those bull centaur fellas and more.
Not sure how good the odds of that are in the foreseeable future. We know the Horns are in the Slaves to Darkness battletome slated for the end of the year. Is there any instance of the same unit featuring in multiple battletomes?
It happens in 40k. Grots Officially a chaos faction would be wild
Kanluwen wrote: They literally said that the Horns of Hashut are the scouts for the Legions of Hashut.
Rather than just going "Well ackchyually!" and making excuses for/defending everything GW does can you please accept that some people might be annoyed that GW is finally giving attention to the legions of Hashut, but made them humans rather than AoS Chaos Dwarfs? Do you think you have the capacity for such an act?
First step is iggy. Failing that, the second step is deletion of account.
The mods permit and encourage the idiocy, and when engaged, youre the one who gets moderated.
I am a firm believer that the only way to win is to not play the game. Ive already contacted Legoburner about deletion of my own account. He is kind enough to await verification of intent.
We can vote with our presence and words as much as we can vote with our dollars.
Silence and absence can be a loud protest when used well. The funny part are those who continue to run their mouths long after you have turned your back and left.
Its not an airport, you don't need to announce your departure. If you wanna go then just stop posting, none of us even know who you are.
I totally understand some disappointment but I hope that what we’re getting is a Legions of Hashut army that contains not just chaos dwarfs, but also Horns of Hashut, hobgrotz, those bull centaur fellas and more.
Not sure how good the odds of that are in the foreseeable future. We know the Horns are in the Slaves to Darkness battletome slated for the end of the year. Is there any instance of the same unit featuring in multiple battletomes?
NinthMusketeer wrote: I think the Horns are cool, but I can absolutely understand people being irked that they aren't dwarfs.
Same. But as odd as it seems, I actually kind of like how the Hashut faction might end up mixed-species. It would fit the lore 9I know of) that the Chorfs were never numerous and used a lot of slave chaff (extended to mercenaries and tributary peoples as well?).
It would do what cities of Sigmar purported to do, but better lol.
Kanluwen wrote: They literally said that the Horns of Hashut are the scouts for the Legions of Hashut.
Rather than just going "Well ackchyually!" and making excuses for/defending everything GW does can you please accept that some people might be annoyed that GW is finally giving attention to the legions of Hashut, but made them humans rather than AoS Chaos Dwarfs? Do you think you have the capacity for such an act?
First step is iggy. Failing that, the second step is deletion of account.
The mods permit and encourage the idiocy, and when engaged, youre the one who gets moderated.
I am a firm believer that the only way to win is to not play the game. Ive already contacted Legoburner about deletion of my own account. He is kind enough to await verification of intent.
We can vote with our presence and words as much as we can vote with our dollars.
Silence and absence can be a loud protest when used well. The funny part are those who continue to run their mouths long after you have turned your back and left.
Its not an airport, you don't need to announce your departure. If you wanna go then just stop posting, none of us even know who you are.
I mostly agree with your stance, up until your last sentence.
You seem to think me stating my opinion is to be taken as an attack directed against you judging by that parting remark.
Youve stated that it's less important about what you say, than who you are. Thats the very definition of ad hominem.
Judging by what I've seen you contribute, thats on brand for Captain Argument from Authority. One good turn deserves another.
Not that this matters much to me, or anyone else obviously. Its that sort of blinkered ignorance that goes unmoderated which gives the reputation that precedes this site. Your comment wont be moderated, but this one certainly will be, which illustrates merely one problem.
I totally understand some disappointment but I hope that what we’re getting is a Legions of Hashut army that contains not just chaos dwarfs, but also Horns of Hashut, hobgrotz, those bull centaur fellas and more.
Not sure how good the odds of that are in the foreseeable future. We know the Horns are in the Slaves to Darkness battletome slated for the end of the year. Is there any instance of the same unit featuring in multiple battletomes?
Chaos Spawn appear in 3; Beasts of Chaos (it can choose to have a Mark of one of the gods), Slaves to Darkness (it must choose a Mark, or Undivided), Disciples of Tzeentch (no additional rule as it's automarked Tzeentch).
Wouldn't be beyond the pale for Horns of Hashut to appear in a Legions Battletome with the addition of a keyword as the only difference, or I could see it simply being FAQ'd to alter the Slaves warscroll to have the additional keyword
Kanluwen wrote: They literally said that the Horns of Hashut are the scouts for the Legions of Hashut.
Rather than just going "Well ackchyually!" and making excuses for/defending everything GW does can you please accept that some people might be annoyed that GW is finally giving attention to the legions of Hashut, but made them humans rather than AoS Chaos Dwarfs? Do you think you have the capacity for such an act?
First step is iggy. Failing that, the second step is deletion of account.
The mods permit and encourage the idiocy, and when engaged, youre the one who gets moderated.
I am a firm believer that the only way to win is to not play the game. Ive already contacted Legoburner about deletion of my own account. He is kind enough to await verification of intent.
We can vote with our presence and words as much as we can vote with our dollars.
Silence and absence can be a loud protest when used well. The funny part are those who continue to run their mouths long after you have turned your back and left.
Its not an airport, you don't need to announce your departure. If you wanna go then just stop posting, none of us even know who you are.
I mostly agree with your stance, up until your last sentence.
You seem to think me stating my opinion is to be taken as an attack directed against you judging by that parting remark.
Youve stated that it's less important about what you say, than who you are. Thats the very definition of ad hominem.
Judging by what I've seen you contribute, thats on brand for Captain Argument from Authority. One good turn deserves another.
Not that this matters much to me, or anyone else obviously. Its that sort of blinkered ignorance that goes unmoderated which gives the reputation that precedes this site. Your comment wont be moderated, but this one certainly will be, which illustrates merely one problem.
~ Nemo
I think he more means that no one is going to come after you if you stop posting here. You stop posting, the site and world move on.
Indeed many people come and go over the years for all kinds of reasons and most users find it easier just to stop posting/drift away and then drift back under the same account than to delete accounts when leaving.
Kanluwen wrote: They literally said that the Horns of Hashut are the scouts for the Legions of Hashut.
Rather than just going "Well ackchyually!" and making excuses for/defending everything GW does can you please accept that some people might be annoyed that GW is finally giving attention to the legions of Hashut, but made them humans rather than AoS Chaos Dwarfs? Do you think you have the capacity for such an act?
First step is iggy. Failing that, the second step is deletion of account.
The mods permit and encourage the idiocy, and when engaged, youre the one who gets moderated.
I am a firm believer that the only way to win is to not play the game. Ive already contacted Legoburner about deletion of my own account. He is kind enough to await verification of intent.
We can vote with our presence and words as much as we can vote with our dollars.
Silence and absence can be a loud protest when used well. The funny part are those who continue to run their mouths long after you have turned your back and left.
Its not an airport, you don't need to announce your departure. If you wanna go then just stop posting, none of us even know who you are.
I mostly agree with your stance, up until your last sentence.
You seem to think me stating my opinion is to be taken as an attack directed against you judging by that parting remark.
Youve stated that it's less important about what you say, than who you are. Thats the very definition of ad hominem.
Judging by what I've seen you contribute, thats on brand for Captain Argument from Authority. One good turn deserves another.
Not that this matters much to me, or anyone else obviously. Its that sort of blinkered ignorance that goes unmoderated which gives the reputation that precedes this site. Your comment wont be moderated, but this one certainly will be, which illustrates merely one problem.
~ Nemo
No, really, none of us know who you are. It's just a statement of fact, reinforcing that there is no social obligation. If anything your posts here read as far more hostile than his, definitely sway more toward ad hominem, and are certainly off topic. The mods aren't perfect but this is hardly an example.
Can't even tell what the 'trigger' for all this is. It simply has nothing to do with Warcry, or honestly with anyone posting in this thread. Just let whatever it is die.
Kanluwen wrote: They literally said that the Horns of Hashut are the scouts for the Legions of Hashut.
Rather than just going "Well ackchyually!" and making excuses for/defending everything GW does can you please accept that some people might be annoyed that GW is finally giving attention to the legions of Hashut, but made them humans rather than AoS Chaos Dwarfs? Do you think you have the capacity for such an act?
First step is iggy. Failing that, the second step is deletion of account.
The mods permit and encourage the idiocy, and when engaged, youre the one who gets moderated.
I am a firm believer that the only way to win is to not play the game. Ive already contacted Legoburner about deletion of my own account. He is kind enough to await verification of intent.
We can vote with our presence and words as much as we can vote with our dollars.
Silence and absence can be a loud protest when used well. The funny part are those who continue to run their mouths long after you have turned your back and left.
Its not an airport, you don't need to announce your departure. If you wanna go then just stop posting, none of us even know who you are.
I mostly agree with your stance, up until your last sentence.
You seem to think me stating my opinion is to be taken as an attack directed against you judging by that parting remark.
Youve stated that it's less important about what you say, than who you are. Thats the very definition of ad hominem.
Judging by what I've seen you contribute, thats on brand for Captain Argument from Authority. One good turn deserves another.
Not that this matters much to me, or anyone else obviously. Its that sort of blinkered ignorance that goes unmoderated which gives the reputation that precedes this site. Your comment wont be moderated, but this one certainly will be, which illustrates merely one problem.
~ Nemo
So you change your account name, but continue down the same path.....
Back on topic of Horns of Hashut. I would like the Chaos Dwarves to return. I would rather the Horns of Hashut having been Chaos Dwarves, or Hob-goblin as they had been part of the old Chaos dwarf forces. To me this just seems like someone at GW heard two groups of people shouting out "When are we getting Chaos Dwarves?" and "When will humans become an army in their own right again?" and decided they could maim two birds with one lump of plastic.
Hm, I have 2 of each of those warbands that I was looking to sell, probably shouldn't have been so lazy about it, but at least now I have a good price basis for comparison.
ImAGeek wrote: I quite like it. Maybe not Chaos? As DaveC says, they aren’t in the Slaves to Darkness tome, but the Horns of Hashut are.
I’m thinking they are part of the Maggotkin instead. Perhaps GW is finally doing something with all the set up for the Order of the Fly that Josh Reynolds did. Those they are based in Ghyran these appears to be their Ghur cousins - and as a way for Maggotkin to get Mortals
I really like WarCry’s designs. None of them feel not-Chaos, but you can tell the design team have greater freedom to go a bit more out there.
For me, that deepens the appeal of Chaos as a whole. If you recall, the Norse/Marauders of the Old World worshipped Chaos, but weren’t necessarily frothing maniacs. Kind of “CofE” Chaos Worshippers, as opposed to Westboro “yip yip wibble pants on head insane” Chaos Worshippers.
zamerion wrote: The GW newsletter said that they are from Nurgle, and a new expansion, not edition :(
Nurgle's servants wade into the Realm of Beasts in the next big Warcry expansion. Get a first look at these marsh-dwelling marauders.
Good I'll take a Red Harvest style box rather than a second edition, the game needs a few fixes but not a new edition. The Rotmire Creed will probably end up in Maggotkin?
zamerion wrote: The GW newsletter said that they are from Nurgle, and a new expansion, not edition :(
Nurgle's servants wade into the Realm of Beasts in the next big Warcry expansion. Get a first look at these marsh-dwelling marauders.
Good I'll take a Red Harvest style box rather than a second edition, the game needs a few fixes but not a new edition. The Rotmire Creed will probably end up in Maggotkin?
Truth. It doesn't need the rewrite for the sake of rewrite that usually happens for an edition. It's good where it is.
There's a decent chance I'll buy a combo box of these guys and hashut warband. The previous box only had the a few darkoath warband members i was interested in getting, and frankly it's not even worth buying the teams individually, as much as I may want not-Conan.
One thing to note is that many of the current Warcry Warbands aren't bound to a single Chaos God.
Yes many of them clearly would lean closer toward one or two of the gods more than the others, but they are all basically independent. The idea being that they've each got their own little gods who are, in reality, just fronts for Greater Demons to pretend to be lesser gods to get the worship of the people.
So its fully possible for two local tribes of the same faction to be worshipping their own god, but behind the scenes one is worshipping a Lord of Change and the other a Bloodthirster.
The Slaves to Darkness novella from the first wave of them also gave a really neat showing of how Tribes who are more aware of the demons they follow; are more apt to have standards for those gods/demons to rise too. Ergo if their Greater Demon isn't upholding their end, they will be tempted by others more openly. It introduced a neat dynamic of power whereby these mortals were still damned for worshipping Chaos; but at the same time were not all the "blind" devotees.
Rihgu wrote: No buboes/sign of mutation makes me think these are either Order or Destruction aligned.
Waaaay less likely to be Destruction aligned, though.
He has zits, they're just not painted in.
To me they look like mosquito bites. Either way, I think the model is pretty cool and should be fun to paint using Contrast paints. Not big fan of the stilts though.
This model looks like it could benefit from more exotic basing. I may have to consider picking up a 3D printer and bucketloads of Epic Basing STL's.
zamerion wrote: The GW newsletter said that they are from Nurgle, and a new expansion, not edition :(
Nurgle's servants wade into the Realm of Beasts in the next big Warcry expansion. Get a first look at these marsh-dwelling marauders.
Good I'll take a Red Harvest style box rather than a second edition, the game needs a few fixes but not a new edition. The Rotmire Creed will probably end up in Maggotkin?
Truth. It doesn't need the rewrite for the sake of rewrite that usually happens for an edition. It's good where it is.
Agreed, a few rough edges but generally speaking the core rules are brilliant. Nothing needed that couldn't be done with an eratta IMO, the main thing missing from the core rules is a proper campaign system--that they added later as the Trial of Champions rules.
Also, super excited on seeing that model. Really hyped to see more.
Carlovonsexron wrote: I'm hoping that with Hashut coming out to play that there will be a bigger lean on actual minor gods of chaos.
Because honestly Chaos has always seemed far too orderly with every thing divided so neatly between the big 4.
Far as AoS lore is right now there are 5 Chaos Gods
Khorne, Nurgle, Tzeentch, Slaanesh and the Great Horned Rat
Of them the first four are native to the Realm of Chaos, with their realms being full of demons who are all facets of the greater whole of the Patron god. Meanwhile when they interact with the Mortal Realms its mostly though Greater and Exalted Greater demons influencing the peoples. So the minor gods appear there, basically as lies from the Four core chaos gods.
The last group is not native to the Chaos Realm, but kind of bought his way in at the end of the Old World. The Great Horned Rat also differs in that his worshippers don't go to Chaos when they die; instead their souls go down to the Realm of the Dead and a regular normal (if skaven style) underlife/world. Not that this is one of the few that resists the invasions and attempts by Nagash, to take them over.
Rihgu wrote: No buboes/sign of mutation makes me think these are either Order or Destruction aligned.
Waaaay less likely to be Destruction aligned, though.
Apparently the email GW sent out says:
Skirmish in the Swamp
Nurgle's servants wade into the Realm of Beasts in the next big Warcry expansion. Get a first look at these marsh-dwelling marauders.
lord_blackfang wrote: I'm more interested in getting a look at potential marsh terrain.
I'm trying not to get my hopes up, but it would be really nice to have rules for water terrain in Warhammer. Sucks big time that we haven't had them because 'ewww we don't make a miniature for that' GW policies, despite them being on boards everywhere since ever.
Carlovonsexron wrote: I'm hoping that with Hashut coming out to play that there will be a bigger lean on actual minor gods of chaos.
Because honestly Chaos has always seemed far too orderly with every thing divided so neatly between the big 4.
Far as AoS lore is right now there are 5 Chaos Gods
Khorne, Nurgle, Tzeentch, Slaanesh and the Great Horned Rat
Of them the first four are native to the Realm of Chaos, with their realms being full of demons who are all facets of the greater whole of the Patron god. Meanwhile when they interact with the Mortal Realms its mostly though Greater and Exalted Greater demons influencing the peoples. So the minor gods appear there, basically as lies from the Four core chaos gods.
The last group is not native to the Chaos Realm, but kind of bought his way in at the end of the Old World. The Great Horned Rat also differs in that his worshippers don't go to Chaos when they die; instead their souls go down to the Realm of the Dead and a regular normal (if skaven style) underlife/world. Not that this is one of the few that resists the invasions and attempts by Nagash, to take them over.
It depends on how much we can rely on content from a single novel which exists outside of the battletomes & campaign books to be canon. If we go by that then the Skaven underworld (Ruin) is canon, a continual warzone between Nagash and the GHR to claim what are no doubt the crappy fast-food equivalent in souls .
Such an assumption would also make Zuvassin canon via the Shadespire novel, which along with Hashut would bring the total to 7.
zamerion wrote: The GW newsletter said that they are from Nurgle, and a new expansion, not edition :(
Nurgle's servants wade into the Realm of Beasts in the next big Warcry expansion. Get a first look at these marsh-dwelling marauders.
Good I'll take a Red Harvest style box rather than a second edition, the game needs a few fixes but not a new edition. The Rotmire Creed will probably end up in Maggotkin?
Agreed, for the most part the Warcry rules feel like the best ruleset GW has developed since this millennia (I'm skipping BB2016 and second season since they are so similar to the original). The core rules of Warcry are quick to learn, easy to teach, and fun while also allowing for a fair bit of tactical depth. Unlike 40k/AoS/Kill Team/Etc. I don't really feel like there are a lot of glaring issues with the rules that need major revisions. I also appreciate that all the Warcry expansions feel like expansions - things you can pick up to add to your game or play it in a different way - not things you have to pick up to keep playing with what you currently have.
I'm really liking the Horns and this Marsh Dweller - really excited for this new set.
For me it's a poor bloke hunting spiders in the sump deep in the Underhive.
lord_blackfang wrote: I'm more interested in getting a look at potential marsh terrain.
IIRC it was you who asked, how many people are going to use the ash waste terrain for the sumps. Well, I guess I will. And those spider cultists from Warcry are another source of denizens.
By a twist of fate Archon is doing "Swamps of Doom" as part of its Dungeons&Lasers 4 crowdfunder in the very near future. GW's will probably be out faster, but at several times the cost.
Fun! I might get this one - the nurgle boys look like they will only need a little modeling putty and a craft knife/file to get rid of any pustules or open wounds.
I think the box is pretty nice with a high ratio of things that won't take any conversions to make them aesthetically pleasing enough to hit my table. Whereas Red Harvest only had like 4 miniatures that looked good.
On the other hand, while the scenery is very cool, it is pretty insubstantial, with dozens of the little short walls/barricades that are barely knee high and only a few larger walkways and platforms.
Red Harvest had much more substantial terrain. The terrain in this box feels a bit disconnected as well with a clear divide between the bone elements and the stone elements. With none of the stone ruins appearing on any of the platform pieces (that we can see), and no skeletons on the pieces with carved stones.
I might still get it, as the walkways are pretty unique, but I usually get tempted by other stuff or Kickstarters before I can save up the money for a GW big box that will surely cost nearly $200 USD.
I'll buy 1 box, the terrain isn't as nice as the Red Harvest terrain which prompted me to buy 3 copies of that box. I think I'm fine waiting for the individual terrain release in 3-6 months time and picking up a couple extra pieces then.
Warcry could do with moving on from Chaos warbands, especially when they dominated the last edition, and now in the land of Ghur. Not keen on Nurgle but would have overlooked them at least pitted against Sylvaneth. If not, a destruction-allied warband would also have been ideal.
The terrain is quite nice.
The roll out of faction rules for Kill Team gives me little confidence going into the new edition of Warcry. This is the one area that will either seal or break the deal...
Got to admit that it would be nice to see more non chaos warbands. They started with Daughters of Khaine, but seem to have gone back to Chaos. What's really odd is that they've still not updated the marauders which basically are what all of the chaos warbands end up being various flavours of.
Excited for a new edition of warcry, But underwhelmed by that box, especially compared to the previous starter sets.
I'm not seeing what others clearly are with the terrain, As to me it looks like aquarium scenery. I do like that we've got a setting with trees! actual goodness trees! But I'll probably just use a few Awakened Wyldwood sets to make a proper forest.
What i'd really love is for those wonderful new underworlds witchunters to get some warcry rules!
So they worship that. Not knowing it’s actually Nurgle I guess.
Maybe why they aren’t as fully ‘Nurglified’ as some normally are when we get new stuff for his followers.
So they worship that. Not knowing it’s actually Nurgle I guess.
Maybe why they aren’t as fully ‘Nurglified’ as some normally are when we get new stuff for his followers.
Basically all of the Warcry Warbands worship their own gods. These gods are basically concepts that the tribes and cities understand at a general unified level. However each worshipper or cult/group leader might well be worshipping a different Chaos Greater Demon.
This Demon "might" be a Great Unclean One, but it could also be a Lord of Change or a Bloodthirster or a Keeper of Secrets.
Yes their factions natural identity would be Nurgle, however there's nothing to stop the others focusing on other aspects and stealing them as worshippers. I think that the War Queen novella shows this well - though that tribe were aware of the different Chaos Gods by name.
In the case of most of the Warcy Warbands they don't know of the Great Four.
Warcry is the only GW stuff that entices me as I really like the low fantasy/sword and sorcery design of a lot of the factions (the crow and snake ones are my favorite) and the bronze bull look on the first faction is pretty awesome for that. Will likely pick this box up as I like the terrain and the other faction as well.
So they worship that. Not knowing it’s actually Nurgle I guess.
Maybe why they aren’t as fully ‘Nurglified’ as some normally are when we get new stuff for his followers.
It isn't so much that they (or other Slaves to Darkness) don't know they are actually worshipping Chaos; it is their cultural interpretation. They worship Nurgle, but if one were to ask them about Nurgle they would have no idea what that name means, because they've never heard it. They just have a different name and concept of what Nurgle is. This also goes for many Slaves to Darkness; relatively few actually know what the Chaos gods are and can have pantheons filled with all manner of deities, with different spots occupied by greater daemons, daemon princes, actual gods, and so on. Some may overlap, particularly with the big four, being worshipped by different cultures in different guises (their respective books give examples of different names and certain alternative aspects).
First thought I had was poor mans Ex Profundus. (Might have spelt it wrong). Then I realized it's not cheap to buy. What it would be, $300 Canadian? Still looks like a poor mans Ex Profundus.
They said on stream that existing players wouldn't need the new core rulebook/would be familiar with the core rulebook, which doesn't really suggest a new edition nor any re-purchasing necessary to me.
I read it more as 'not a lot is changing' and 'the old cards will still be valid' so needing to buy the new core and that's it. They'll probably do subsequent releases that update rules just like they do with codex & battletomes, and tbh I'd be pretty let down if they didn't.
They basically said in the preview it's just a change of setting, the core rules are the same.
So expect new lore, rules for the new warbands and new scenarios / quests, but otherwise it's same old Warcry.
Which is good to me, because it works well as it is and there's no need to remake the wheel. Sam Pearson seems to believe that and I support him fully.
So they worship that. Not knowing it’s actually Nurgle I guess.
Maybe why they aren’t as fully ‘Nurglified’ as some normally are when we get new stuff for his followers.
Basically all of the Warcry Warbands worship their own gods. These gods are basically concepts that the tribes and cities understand at a general unified level. However each worshipper or cult/group leader might well be worshipping a different Chaos Greater Demon.
This Demon "might" be a Great Unclean One, but it could also be a Lord of Change or a Bloodthirster or a Keeper of Secrets.
Yes their factions natural identity would be Nurgle, however there's nothing to stop the others focusing on other aspects and stealing them as worshippers. I think that the War Queen novella shows this well - though that tribe were aware of the different Chaos Gods by name.
In the case of most of the Warcy Warbands they don't know of the Great Four.
I'm hoping (as I've said elsewhere) that the coming of Hashut means that Chaos, at least in the mortal realms, will be opening up beyond the big 4 to showcase other full blown chaos Gods. Hashut and the Horned Rat show there is room for them.
While the Horns of Hashut only seem to pay lip service to their god (none of them are dwarves, chaos or otherwise) the minis look really nice. And the Rotmire Creed hits an undead-ranger vibe I did not know I liked.
Wonder how well it would work if I chopped off the toothy branches and replaced them with leaves from that warhammer tree kit. The bark is different, but once the leaves are on, it shouldn't be noticeable
Still not feeling the Horns of Hashut. They're fine throwbacks to 80's fantasy designs, would feel right at home in a Conan flick, but they just aren't short enough.
I do like the Rotmire though. Not the mini-stilts, that has to go, but everything else is a really nice, understated take on Nurgle that isn't particularly common.
Not sure they helped themselves with the comment about Hashut being popular with Chaos Dwarfs, when not including any Chaos Dwarfs in the darned warband...
Dysartes wrote: Not sure they helped themselves with the comment about Hashut being popular with Chaos Dwarfs, when not including any Chaos Dwarfs in the darned warband...
Or it's the dregs and other followers of Hashut forced to make due with small warbands, while Chaos Dwarves are a proper army and have no time for them.
I can understand people being frustrated. Personally I want to see how it plays out with the eventual army release, but in the meantime it does seem like an odd choice.
Dysartes wrote: Not sure they helped themselves with the comment about Hashut being popular with Chaos Dwarfs, when not including any Chaos Dwarfs in the darned warband...
Or it's the dregs and other followers of Hashut forced to make due with small warbands, while Chaos Dwarves are a proper army and have no time for them.
Dysartes wrote: Not sure they helped themselves with the comment about Hashut being popular with Chaos Dwarfs, when not including any Chaos Dwarfs in the darned warband...
Or it's the dregs and other followers of Hashut forced to make due with small warbands, while Chaos Dwarves are a proper army and have no time for them.
Or GW has no time for a proper chaos dwarf army
which isn't exactly unprecedented.
Last year I would have 100% agreed with this, but with the launch of two different flavors of Squats (Necromundian and League) I have hope to see Chaos dwarves in the next year or so. Not that it would matter a ton...I have way too many of the Lost Kingdom chaos dwarves.
Yea I have no lammasu in this race but I imagine it must be a slap in the face for CD aficionados to get Hashut humans and I don't know why GW choose to provoke old fans with this sort of gak (also see: cow elves)
I don't see a problem with "cow elves". They came right alongside spear archer and regular light cavalry. The Lumineth were kind of marketed as a return of the concept of light/high elves but with a new twist and the idea of elves with a bovine god using hammers isn't a huge problem. Heck hammers are a very sensible real world weapon against heavy armours and not every elf has to be a dancer with a thin rapier blade. Besides that's the Daughter's of Khain's thing to be super dancers with blades. Let the Lumineth have some additional toys like war hammers and such.
GaroRobe wrote: Wonder how well it would work if I chopped off the toothy branches and replaced them with leaves from that warhammer tree kit. The bark is different, but once the leaves are on, it shouldn't be noticeable
I'm going to figure out ways to flock them myself- a big draw of the kit for me is just getting more plastic trees.
Overread wrote: I don't see a problem with "cow elves". They came right alongside spear archer and regular light cavalry.
Well, no. They came after.
They previewed a high elf reboot with spears, archers and cav, and then pulled a bait and switch with the cow elves and elemental temples.
If that appeals to people, fine. But the initial preview was traditional high elves, and then the rest of the army... wasn't.
Monkeysloth wrote: Warcry is the only GW stuff that entices me as I really like the low fantasy/sword and sorcery design of a lot of the factions (the crow and snake ones are my favorite) and the bronze bull look on the first faction is pretty awesome for that. Will likely pick this box up as I like the terrain and the other faction as well.
I liked a few in the first season, not sure on these so won’t get the box.
But could play Warcry with my Underworlds stuff too anyway.
They said on stream that existing players wouldn't need the new core rulebook/would be familiar with the core rulebook, which doesn't really suggest a new edition nor any re-purchasing necessary to me.
When they first announced this was moving realms (last event or an article) they flat out said it’s not a new edition, but more like a season, moving to a new place to do more boxes like this I guess.
Probably like how Kill Team is now.
4 boxes a year making a theme is how that seems to be going.
I’d welcome that here, if they did a different two warband box after this one and I liked both of them I’d commit to Warcry probably.
Overread wrote: I don't see a problem with "cow elves". They came right alongside spear archer and regular light cavalry.
Well, no. They came after.
They previewed a high elf reboot with spears, archers and cav, and then pulled a bait and switch with the cow elves and elemental temples.
If that appeals to people, fine. But the initial preview was traditional high elves, and then the rest of the army... wasn't.
Overread wrote: I don't see a problem with "cow elves". They came right alongside spear archer and regular light cavalry.
Well, no. They came after.
They previewed a high elf reboot with spears, archers and cav, and then pulled a bait and switch with the cow elves and elemental temples.
If that appeals to people, fine. But the initial preview was traditional high elves, and then the rest of the army... wasn't.
The Vanari Auralan Wardens went on pre-order on September 5th, 2020 while the Vanari Dawnriders and Aralith Stoneguard went on pre-order on September 12th, 2020.
Why do people even call them Cow Elves, there's a grand total of three units in their entire lineup with a cow them. And they're lineup is extensive enough by AoS standards that you can just not use them, they also get regular-ish spearmen, archers, cavalry, ballista and such.
Overread wrote: I mean it wasn't really a bait and switch. The horse, spear and archers were in the first releases alongside the first elemental temple.
Yeah, and they said during previews that the army was going to have new, unique elements in addition to traditional elf units. It was about as far from bait and switch as it is possible to be.
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Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Why do people even call them Cow Elves, there's a grand total of three units in their entire lineup with a cow them. And they're lineup is extensive enough by AoS standards that you can just not use them, they also get regular-ish spearmen, archers, cavalry, ballista and such.
And they aren't the better part of the army anyways, the stars of the show being the conventional units.
