I'm nearly sold on this, the remaining factor being the (blind) blister card packs and the price. If the core box is over 130€, it's gonna be a hard sell.
To be honest, the part I'm looking for is the campaign system. It was really disappointing in Kill Team, barely a skeleton to work on. I really hope they're making something consistent, with a satisfying experience / rewards system and a more immersive "post-game" phase.
Competitive and tournament games are fun for a while only. What really makes Mordheim play by people still nowadays is the campaign and the way you can see your warband truly evolve (sometimes devolve ) as games pass on, and this RPG feeling. I don't expect Warcry to be like Mordheim, but I still hope people like Bottle will manage to make something worthy.
That not all the warbands are available at launch is a bit annoying, sure, but it was expected sadly.
So no Free People/Witch Hunters but Sigmarines. Not unexpected, but unexciting. Now I can't use my Witch Hunter force without heavy proxying.
A few random thoughts:
- Will Ironjawz be one of/THE most elite band? They don't come in large boxes and are expensive warscroll wise.
- I hope that the terrain set is either super cheap or I can get the rules stuff cheaply from ebay, I already have a spooky graveyard. I could use some more of the OLD woods, another watchtower and the plastic house/chapell from WHFB...or just re-release the Fortified Manor set.
- I need my snake dudes and bird(wo)men NOW, not weird headgear folk
- The starter would be much nicer with better looking Raptoryxes...so much plastic real estate is used for those things.
"Edit" because I accidentally hit the submit button early on my phone.
stonehorse wrote: Still no insight in to how it plays other than being to AoS what KT is to 40k.
Well, how does AoS and 40K play nower days? Set To Hit and To Wound rolls, Rend/Damage results, oodles of aura abilities, and points to spend on stratagems that are on cards. GW's apples don't fall far from their trees.
True enough, I just wish GW would show off more of their creative ideas when it comes to game design. We have seen several smaller games produced that broke away from the tired dice mechanics, and those were and remain a joy to behold.
I wonder if the game is complete at sale, or is it going to be another excuse to sell additional rule books later on like with KT? I do think that GW are taking a lesson from the likes of the video game industry and selling half finished rules that later on have the rest of the rules sold across several products, 40K and KT seem to be following this pattern.
If GW intends for Killteam and Warcry to be leaders into their other games then it makes sense that they roughly keep a similar structure and inclusion of dice and mechanics. To GW they are not trying to make Killteam nor Warcry into totally separate products, but supporting and introduction products. The idea is that Warcy/Killteam offer really small format games where one box of models can buy you enough to get started. One purchase and you're playing the game. That's lowering the introduction bar dramatically in terms of purchasing requirements, complexity of entry, costs and time required to get the team put together. GW is hoping that you buy into these games and then also buy into bigger and bigger armies - moving onto the Meeting Engagements at 1K points, moving into full games at 2K and likely moving into whatever they call Apoc for AoS. One product leads into the next.
Plus because GW is marketing and packaging them up existing gamers also take part, creating games for the newbies to get involved with rather than leaving them off in a corner on their own. In addition Warcry/Killteam also appeal to mature gamers who might not have huge amounts of free time for 3 or 4 hour games as often as they'd like. So offering a game that can be done and dusted in under an hour is a big thing.
As for expanding rules I think the key is to realise that one reason GW has done the rules expansions as they did, moving them on in phases, is because it leaves GW in a stronger position to stop supporting the game. Take Necromunda, they released it in expansion waves, building up the content and complexity and yet at each stage if GW found sales to be shockingly small they could have stopped, leaving the game in a "complete and functional state". It's basically GW testing the waters and then slowly dipping their feet in further and very different to computer game situations.
GW has, in the past, been burned by specialist games failing to sell well - in part because of the market and in part because of GW's marketing at the time. so GW is being really cautious this time around, they are basically requiring the market to say YES WE WANT THIS in terms of open wallets and actual sales, not just lots of people saying "we want this". That's a big difference because the former makes GW money, the latter wastes GW's resources.
I'm sure we'll likely see this game advance just like Killteam - starting with basic warbands and then developing into bigger monsters over time.
Also lets note some of the interesting featuers unique to it - NPC Mobs on the table (demons) and also a singleplayer campaign system that lets you campaign and run a narrative for a warband without having to be part of any formal organised group of players. That in iteslf could be a massive thing not just for this but for games like necromunda as well. Growing your team is part of the fun for many, but at the same time that requires and organised setup, a person overseeing the matches etc.... It you can do away with that and have the narrative story telling growth but without any strict organisation then that's a fantastic thing
Hanskrampf wrote: I'm nearly sold on this, the remaining factor being the (blind) blister card packs and the price. If the core box is over 130€, it's gonna be a hard sell.
The card packs almost 100% aren't blind fortunately. I think a lot of people are just assuming this because the packaging looks like CCG packaging.
From GW's website:
For the card packs:
"Each set contains an abilities card, plus fighter cards for every model you can use in these warbands."
And from the Cypher Lords:
"This warband set contains models plus rules for using them in your games in the form of sets of cards. An abilities card allows you to master the underhanded tactics, dazzling ploys and special moves available to the Cypher Lords. Meanwhile, a set of fighter cards make checking the characteristics for your warriors simple."
From reading those it seems each faction has a single abilities card and a number of fighter cards. Everything you need to play that faction in one pack. It wouldn't make a lot of sense if the non-Chaos factions had multiple "collectible" abilities cards while the Chaos warbands do not, because they aren't the emphasis of the game. Since you get the cards in each Warband box, if there was a collectible aspect GW would be asking people to be buying a full warband to gamble on getting an ability card. I don't see that happening.
From the Open Day I attended, where we first saw the Orlock's, the info we were given was consistent - Van Saar were mostly there, but Cawdor and Delaque were still in development.
Now, that taken at face value? Yes, it does appear Necromunda went on sale with the other 4 gangs already designed.
But can we take it at face value? I'll leave to your own discretion.
How are the rules half finished and how is this different from rules in WD or Town Cryer twenty years ago?
Any product where someone needs to buy a monthly/yearly product to play the game is a game that has been sold half finished. 40k 8th edition has had so many changes made to the core rules that the main rule book is already outdated.
Kill Team has rules spread over 3 and soon to be 4 rule books now.
Things like codex, army books are fine as they don't alter the core rules, and aren't needed to play the core rules.
GW with a few of their games seem to be going down the path of selling patches/beta rules. This could be due to how fast their sales model is now, every week we get new things, back in the day 25 years ago, it was a small release over a month or even months. This speed may be why we are seeing the increase in erratas and things like GHB/Chapter Approved.
I hope they are making more than a dozen copies of the starter set... Due to "life stuff" I won't be able to pick it up until the end of August, and by then I'm guessing the starter box will be well and truly sold out. :(
In the case of Warcry, the question doesn't need to be asked. It is clear that all the starting warbands are designed. We saw all of the miniatures painted, already.
Reason why they are not all present at launch is a marketing/logistic issue, I have no doubt.
In addition Warcry/Killteam also appeal to mature gamers who might not have huge amounts of free time for 3 or 4 hour games as often as they'd like. So offering a game that can be done and dusted in under an hour is a big thing.
This is the absolute truth for me. I don't have a ton of time for 3 or 4 hour games, and I don't have a ton of space for gaming in my condo. Being able to play a game in under an hour on the dining table is such an enormous advantage for me compared to something that requires a 6'x4' table and that I have to essentially devote a day to for playing. I can play a game of Warcry on a work day or a day that I have other plans no problems. Also, most my gaming buddies are in similar situations. They love miniature games, but they don't have the time to assemble and paint a huge army of models and then play games that take 3 or 4 hours, so publishing games like this is really useful to hit a part of the market GW had missed out on under their previous leadership.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: From the Open Day I attended, where we first saw the Orlock's, the info we were given was consistent - Van Saar were mostly there, but Cawdor and Delaque were still in development.
Now, that taken at face value? Yes, it does appear Necromunda went on sale with the other 4 gangs already designed.
But can we take it at face value? I'll leave to your own discretion.
you can also look at the sprues, the Escher & Goliaths are 2017, Cawdor, Orlocks & Delesque are 2018 (can't find a good online shot of the Van Saar), and we've seen that they date the sprues when they're first designed from the releases of some pretty old stuff which supports the idea that the game wasn't finished in plastic when it launched (even if they did have concepts of what they were planning to do)
Sarouan wrote: In the case of Warcry, the question doesn't need to be asked. It is clear that all the starting warbands are designed. We saw all of the miniatures painted, already.
Reason why they are not all present at launch is a marketing/logistic issue, I have no doubt.
They're not just "Designed", they have a physical plastic box of ALL teams on display cabinet, which mean the money already spent, the molds are made, the packaging, printing are in process.
How are the rules half finished and how is this different from rules in WD or Town Cryer twenty years ago?
Any product where someone needs to buy a monthly/yearly product to play the game is a game that has been sold half finished. 40k 8th edition has had so many changes made to the core rules that the main rule book is already outdated.
Kill Team has rules spread over 3 and soon to be 4 rule books now.
Things like codex, army books are fine as they don't alter the core rules, and aren't needed to play the core rules.
GW with a few of their games seem to be going down the path of selling patches/beta rules. This could be due to how fast their sales model is now, every week we get new things, back in the day 25 years ago, it was a small release over a month or even months. This speed may be why we are seeing the increase in erratas and things like GHB/Chapter Approved.
I guess I don't really understand your point? You can play Kill Team with just the Core Book (in fact the league at LGS only uses the Core Book). The other books are expansions which you can choose to add to the game if they interest you.
Would you make the same statement about a game like Dungeons and Dragons? D&D has dozens of books available to players that all add new content and new rules (many of which modify core rulebook rules/ offer alternatives to them), but you only need the core three to play the game. Would that also be a half-finished product?
I can understand being frustrated about errata that is out at publication or very shortly afterwards, but a lot of errata/ FAQs are in response to player feedback about games (in most gaming companies), so I don't really see a problem with companies trying to make their games more appealing to their players.
I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just not sure how you are connecting the video game model (I'm assuming with companies like EA, not companies who release legitimate expansions at later dates that offer more content and cost money) to what GW did with KT and may do with Warcry?
Warcry Starter Set - Warhammer Age of Sigmar £100 - Due 03/08/19
I was about to say this when they announce the two week pre-order but forgot.
And there are people who are certain when GW say July 2019 meant game is released in July. Oh no the trickery! I was right about the pre-order July, release August
Warcry Starter Set - Warhammer Age of Sigmar £100 - Due 03/08/19
This means next Saturday I've got to sit on the refresh page on my "purveyor of fine model kits" website to get an order in early because darn they are going to fly off the shelves at that price!
Warcry Starter Set - Warhammer Age of Sigmar £100 - Due 03/08/19
I was about to say this when they announce the two week pre-order but forgot.
And there are people who are certain when GW say July 2019 meant game is released in July. Oh no the trickery! I was right about the pre-order July, release August
Honestly I'd wager it was supposed to be in July but Sylvanath getting delayed as long as it did left GW with a major release that needed a week of its own and wasn't something they could keep putting off. So they bumped Warcy down one week, a pain for GW to be sure, but chances are they had to do it because otherwise Sylvanath could have been coming out after GW markets a fresh wave of new Battletomes which isn't good marketing. This is assuming we get new Battletome details this coming weekend - which is what most are expecting considering this is the year GW is pushing out lots of Battletomes for AoS and that we've now got all the battletomes out in the wild that GW has marketed (or at least close enough to the wild).
Honestly I'd wager it was supposed to be in July but Sylvanath getting delayed as long as it did left GW with a major release that needed a week of its own and wasn't something they could keep putting off. So they bumped Warcy down one week, a pain for GW to be sure, but chances are they had to do it because otherwise Sylvanath could have been coming out after GW markets a fresh wave of new Battletomes which isn't good marketing. This is assuming we get new Battletome details this coming weekend - which is what most are expecting considering this is the year GW is pushing out lots of Battletomes for AoS and that we've now got all the battletomes out in the wild that GW has marketed (or at least close enough to the wild).
Just trying to save people from the impending disappointment. Because they'd pulled this on me before.
Mostly interested in seeing how customizable the teams will be (as miniatures, as well as in game terms). These Chaos bands do resemble the fixed poses/weapons of Shadespire, but could turn out to be like the Necromunda sets. If there is the option to actually increase the number of warriors in your warband, you'd either have to start with only part of a box, or get a duplicate set for reinforcements (not much else in their range after all, aside from critters and monsters that could join them). From my understanding, Kill Team has a number of troop types per faction and some weapon options, but is fairly limited overall. The video mentions warbands getting "new weapons", but that could still be that your axe is now Khar'chuck, a magical axe that allows you to re-roll 1s to wound. For the non-chaos factions, you may end up requiring several boxes for a diversity of troops, so I wonder if the "These are just one of a host of new warbands on the way – some of which we’ve already seen…" refers to easier starting kits with a mixture of troops for the other factions, or we are to see more Chaos warbands too. Could be both.
Shame the terrain isn't a bit more neutral, but has statues carved into pretty much every pillar. Not a huge fan of the "paint by the numbers" nature of these background tables either, with an astonishing 10 names and 6 background origins. Works ok for a single RPG character, but doesn't create much of a coherent background story for a warband - I'd rather see that space used for some paragraphs of information about the history, culture and conventions of the faction, so that those into that sort of thing can genuinely create something.
EDIT: Hmm, 130€ for the full box and 40€ per warband is a bit steeper than hoped for. Perhaps not unexpected, but still. Suppose that's what happens when they have different poses rather than a duplicate sprue as in the 30ish€ Blood Bowl or Necromunda sets, which at least contain 10-12 models... And then you might or might not end up requiring a second set for full gameplay.
£100 with my local's discount is going to be very hard to pass up on. Not keen on the booster pack style of getting cards, it'll be interesting how the secondary market takes them.
I wonder if GW using card packs like magic the gathering style cards is what they might move forward with for other games. It might be cheaper and easier for GW to produce and secure long term contracts for and reprints rather than the card stock we've seen them use for warscrolls and other supporting games.
It's certianly an issue for GW at present that they appear unable to get reprints done easily/economically for games that use them since it basically puts a time-limit on the viability of the product.
Tyranid Horde wrote: £100 with my local's discount is going to be very hard to pass up on. Not keen on the booster pack style of getting cards, it'll be interesting how the secondary market takes them.
warhammer community wrote:Each set contains an abilities card, plus fighter cards for every model you can use in these warbands.
Tyranid Horde wrote: £100 with my local's discount is going to be very hard to pass up on. Not keen on the booster pack style of getting cards, it'll be interesting how the secondary market takes them.
They aren't random boosters, they aren't even boosters. They are card packs just being sold in a booster formate package. If you want a card game comparison its like buying a prebuilt deck.
Tyranid Horde wrote: £100 with my local's discount is going to be very hard to pass up on. Not keen on the booster pack style of getting cards, it'll be interesting how the secondary market takes them.
They aren't random boosters, they aren't even boosters. They are card packs just being sold in a booster formate package. If you want a card game comparison its like buying a prebuilt deck.
Let's hope they don't cop on that it's a viable way of getting people to spend money then. Just seems weird that they'd package them in that style and NOT have them be like CCGs.
Regardless, the cards if they're good will become pricey if they're only a single printing.
Tyranid Horde wrote: £100 with my local's discount is going to be very hard to pass up on. Not keen on the booster pack style of getting cards, it'll be interesting how the secondary market takes them.
They aren't random boosters, they aren't even boosters. They are card packs just being sold in a booster formate package. If you want a card game comparison its like buying a prebuilt deck.
Let's hope they don't cop on that it's a viable way of getting people to spend money then. Just seems weird that they'd package them in that style and NOT have them be like CCGs.
Regardless, the cards if they're good will become pricey if they're only a single printing.
I think its purely GW experimenting with repeat orders from factories overseas. Card pack style might simply be a format more of those factories are setup for and its much easier for GW to order in repeat waves whislt the current formats they use appear to get one big order and that's it - which is a disaster for things like Killteam which they want to be long term products.
GW has no interest in you collecting cards to use your army; they'd rather you collected your army from their actual physical model products. A card collecting system would be disastrous to stupid because gamers would not stand to paying for random cards to use models they've bought in a game. Besides GW has a card game for AoS - its Champions. The only card collecting aspect we might get is if GW breaks up Warcry into waves of model expansions so we have core troops now - then beasts then war engines later etc.... Then again some factions in their starting line up don't really have huge armies to start with - most of the orruk armies are, what, a handful of troops, one or two leaders and if they are lucky a big dragon.
The booster pack style design is also used for various board game expansions. Hero Realms, Star Realms, Hostage Negotiator and Cards Against Humanity all use that packaging for small, fixed content expansions where there is no requirement for storage (they just go in the base box). There’s precedent for them not being blind buy elsewhere.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Of course this goes on pre-order the same week as the BattleTech kickstarter.
Right? Now I gotta make a decision for my hobby money this/next month. Cuz $150-$200 is gonna wipe me out for a while.
I was fully planning to ignore Warcry before that box set was revealed. Now I'm having to make hard decisions. Hopefully, the starter set doesn't sell out super fast this time around. That way I can just grab one in a few months when the rules have proved themselves.
I just really want that terrain. I like it way more than the other AOS stuff I've seen.
Can we please just stop pushing this baseless blind buy booster narrative, there's enough to complain about GW without straight up making random gak up.
The only thing we can conclude from the cellophane wrapper is that there are not a lot of cards per pack, which implies low model diversity in a faction.
€130 a bit steep, but not unaffordable. Puts it in the thinking seriously price bracket instead of the impulse buy for me. As is I already have far too many games I don't get to play enough... so the big question is would I get chance to play it?
€40 for 8 human sized models is a too much, €5 per figure... again puts them over the impulse buying threshold.
Looks like exact AoS profiles with Bravery taken out.
Speed, Armour and Wounds (20 wounds on this fella!) in the circle, then a weapon profile line with a Melee icon, and numerical values for Hit, Wound, Rend and Damage (two numbers: 2 Damage on normal or 5 on critical hit for this guy).
From there being 20 Wounds on this basic guy, I'm gonna guess there's no Injury roll in this game. Also there are no proprietary dice.
Mr Morden wrote: hell they never even bothered to let me play with my Sisters in it.
These would be the sisters who aren't yet on sale from GW right? I mean technically the yare, just as super high priced metal and plastic metal models that GW is discontinuing later this year to replace with a big launch of brand new shiny plastic models right. Cause I'd wager that's when you'll see Sisters Killteam.
Yeah, c'mon. Sisters will be in it once Sisters get a proper release. They don't want to print a bunch of crap for an ancient about-to-be-retired line of miniatures.
stonehorse wrote: €40 for 8 human sized models is a too much, €5 per figure... again puts them over the impulse buying threshold.
Don't the warband boxes also come with all the cards and stuff you need to play 'em?
I'm confused as to what this game actually is - even with the 5 minute video taking the time to explain. On the one hand its "for AoS what Kill Team is for 40K", but on the other its chaos warbands and will use a new range of miniatures?
Part of me wants to preorder it on Saturday in the hope its AoS:Kill Team, but the other cautions patience "wait for Tabletop Minions to explain it...", for it could be AoS: Necromunda with chaos warbands...which isn't a bad thing, I guess?
I already have Sepuchural Guard and some skeletons, and would like to treat myself to some Sylvaneth models for an introductory game, but something tells me I have the wrong end of the stick with this game.
SamusDrake wrote: I'm confused as to what this game actually is - even with the 5 minute video taking the time to explain. On the one hand its "for AoS what Kill Team is for 40K", but on the other its chaos warbands and will use a new range of miniatures?
Part of me wants to preorder it on Saturday in the hope its AoS:Kill Team, but the other cautions patience "wait for Tabletop Minions to explain it...", for it could be AoS: Necromunda with chaos warbands...which isn't a bad thing, I guess?
I already have Sepuchural Guard and some skeletons, and would like to treat myself to some Sylvaneth models for an introductory game, but something tells me I have the wrong end of the stick with this game.
With more of the armies and likely all AoS armies eventually being represented this way. The only new models are for Chaos Mortals, all the rest use regular normal AoS models from your current (or future)collection; just like Killteam does.
man... eight models per box is a weird number (at least for my plans). I wanted to get the corvus cabal + capher lords / serpentine warband to use them as marauders for my disciples of tzeentch army.
But if I need to get three boxes that's not a great plan...
Mr Morden wrote: hell they never even bothered to let me play with my Sisters in it.
These would be the sisters who aren't yet on sale from GW right? I mean technically the yare, just as super high priced metal and plastic metal models that GW is discontinuing later this year to replace with a big launch of brand new shiny plastic models right. Cause I'd wager that's when you'll see Sisters Killteam.
They sell the models, they got rules for Appoclaypse..... It would have killed them to put a couple of pages in.....
Anyway back to Warcry before I derail it....
8 models per box - Chaos number I guess.
Hopefully they will all receive Warscrolls for AOS as well - although I guess stupidly they will limit it to the exact contents of a box as they do for Underworlds etc units
Have they said anything about any kind of cusomisation because the video just talks about occassional boosts after so many scenarios?
Important question - do we get a Becca Scott "How to Play"
Mr Morden wrote: hell they never even bothered to let me play with my Sisters in it.
These would be the sisters who aren't yet on sale from GW right? I mean technically the yare, just as super high priced metal and plastic metal models that GW is discontinuing later this year to replace with a big launch of brand new shiny plastic models right. Cause I'd wager that's when you'll see Sisters Killteam.
You can buy metal Sisters to this day, which means that if GW had included rules for them, you could have had a year of fun playing them. You could have played in that crucial beginning stage where people are excited for a new game that decides whether a community is formed for that game within a group. You could have played them when you could actually buy the starter set of Kill Team, or most of the Kill Zones.
Or, I guess, you could have just not gotten to participate because GW couldn't be bothered to write one page of rules.
Eh, it's all the same in the end, isn't it. What's the difference if you have to wait a year and a half?
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah, c'mon. Sisters will be in it once Sisters get a proper release. They don't want to print a bunch of crap for an ancient about-to-be-retired line of miniatures.
Come on, let's be honest. Do you really expect the basic Sister squad to change? Did Tactical Marines undergo such massive changes between their 3rd ed and 7th ed incarnations that you couldn't have based their Kill Team rules on 3rd ed kits? Sisters with bolters. Sisters with special weapons. Sister Superior with the usual stuff. Done. If they get any new options eighteen months later, that's a couple of lines in an errata.
Not that Sisters in Kill Team are the actual problem. That's just for Sisters players. But everyone else will have to put up with limitations in customization, should that come to pass. And let's not kid ourselves here, given GW's track record of implementing no model no rules and making so many monopose kits with effectively no options, it's not pessimistic to expect Warcry to follow along those same lines.
We don't know yet. I certainly have no intention of writing off Warcry until i have all the facts. But I certainly think a little caution is warranted because at this point I think GW needs to prove that they're going to break out of the mold and deliver more than the usual fare.
DaveC wrote: Not all warbands are 8 minis Corvus Cabal and Unmade have 9 as do Untamed Beasts with their “hound”
Some may be 9 models, but the price will be €40, so €4.44 per model. That doesn't make it any better.
I can pick up two Warhammer Underworlds Warbands for just under €40. That gives me more models and loads of cards to use with them.
Sure the WC models are nice, bit it is going to take some serious effort for WC to replace WU as my go to fantasy skirmish game.
The difference is that it is entirely plausible that you won't use all of the models in the sets at the start of a campaign for WarCry.
Underworlds has no option for that. You use what it says you use and that's that.
Does anyone have any idea how quickly this is going to sell out? How long was Kill Team available before they ran out of stock? I was really hoping to pick up Warcry during my local store's birthday event in August. Does anyone doubt there will be stock left after a month?
DaveC wrote: Not all warbands are 8 minis Corvus Cabal and Unmade have 9 as do Untamed Beasts with their “hound”
Some may be 9 models, but the price will be €40, so €4.44 per model. That doesn't make it any better.
I can pick up two Warhammer Underworlds Warbands for just under €40. That gives me more models and loads of cards to use with them.
Sure the WC models are nice, bit it is going to take some serious effort for WC to replace WU as my go to fantasy skirmish game.
isn't the 40 euro the direct gw price? if yes then you should compare it to the gw price for underworlds where a warband cost €22.5, so its over €40 for 2 warbands. Besides that the amount of models realy depends on the warband. And last we don't know the sprues for warcry, we might be getting options
DaveC wrote: Not all warbands are 8 minis Corvus Cabal and Unmade have 9 as do Untamed Beasts with their “hound”
Some may be 9 models, but the price will be €40, so €4.44 per model. That doesn't make it any better.
I can pick up two Warhammer Underworlds Warbands for just under €40. That gives me more models and loads of cards to use with them.
Sure the WC models are nice, bit it is going to take some serious effort for WC to replace WU as my go to fantasy skirmish game.
isn't the 40 euro the direct gw price? if yes then you should compare it to the gw price for underworlds where a warband cost €22.5, so its over €40 for 2 warbands. Besides that the amount of models realy depends on the warband. And last we don't know the sprues for warcry, we might be getting options
There’s at least some options, we’ve seen the same models armed with different weapons in different photos.
Duskweaver wrote: I'm pretty sure I'll be picking up at least one set of all six warbands, plus extra copies of those most suitable for conversion fodder.
OK, now I've seen the prices, I will not be doing that, because it would end up in the region of £300.
So I'll probably forget about buying into the game altogether and just get a box each of the Unmade and the Cypher Lords for conversion fodder.
Duskweaver wrote: I'm pretty sure I'll be picking up at least one set of all six warbands, plus extra copies of those most suitable for conversion fodder.
OK, now I've seen the prices, I will not be doing that, because it would end up in the region of £300.
So I'll probably forget about buying into the game altogether and just get a box each of the Unmade and the Cypher Lords for conversion fodder.
feth you, GW.
That’s a bit weird to read. You didn’t expect that a WHOLE collection of a single wargame will not be cheap? You want a lot, it will cost a lot 30 pounds for a warband is a bit much, I have to agree, though. Especially after Necromunda and Underworlds prices. There isn’t any customization in the warcry minis is there?
ecurtz wrote: Not at all happy to see the USA is moving toward an Australia/New Zealand style absurdly random exchange rate.
Try north of the border eh? We have to pay double what ever GW pound price is. Also when our buck was more than the US buck we still were paying over 30% more. You would have thought Canadian pricing would be less than US once that happened.
Duskweaver wrote: I'm pretty sure I'll be picking up at least one set of all six warbands, plus extra copies of those most suitable for conversion fodder.
OK, now I've seen the prices, I will not be doing that, because it would end up in the region of £300.
So I'll probably forget about buying into the game altogether and just get a box each of the Unmade and the Cypher Lords for conversion fodder.
feth you, GW.
That’s a bit weird to read. You didn’t expect that a WHOLE collection of a single wargame will not be cheap? You want a lot, it will cost a lot 30 pounds for a warband is a bit much, I have to agree, though. Especially after Necromunda and Underworlds prices. There isn’t any customization in the warcry minis is there?
There’s at least some, we’ve seen the same models with different weapons.
I dunno, the warband prices seem fine to me. Shadespire generally has less models in a team, and are pushfit with no options. Necromunda has more options and a couple more models, but is just one sprue repeated, where as each model in these is unique. And they come with the cards. I was hoping for £25, but expecting £30, especially after the price rise we’ve just had.
Today's Stormcast features Maxime Pastourel who is the contents lead for Warcry (and the one responsible for the belt buckles)
Learn all about the new Warcry warbands, their cultures, wargear and fighting styles in this week's StormCast as Maxime Pastourel, from the Citadel miniatures team, joins Wade for a chat.
Learn all about the new Warcry warbands, their cultures, wargear and fighting styles in this week's StormCast as Maxime Pastourel, from the Citadel miniatures team, joins Wade for a chat.
DaveC wrote: Today's Stormcast features Maxime Pastourel who is the contents lead for Warcry (and the one responsible for the belt buckles)
It remains such a strange design choice. Would anybody struggle to differentiate a member of the Untamed Beasts with one of the Cypher Lords if it hadn't been for those things?
I am used to icon-driven stat cards but this looks very poorly executed. In the first place, the abilities look to be few and short enough to be printed in whole on the cards anyway. Secondly, the icons are entirely abstract and in no way representative of the ability, making them godawfully hard to remember. I personally would fire the graphics designer over this.
So, from those cards it seems that four of the Iron Golems have a single fixed configuration and four have an alternate build (including one having a choice between Signifer and Prefector character types).
Mr Morden wrote: Symbols are pretty odd - Fist for toughness for instance....
Hmm - need to see more before I decide.
Interesting figure shown seems to have lots of attacks (4 or 8 depending how it works) and lots of wounds (15)
Isn't the shield for Toughness and Fist for strength. Icons could be better alright it took me a minute to figure out each line was the statline for the weapon on the left.
Mr Morden wrote: Symbols are pretty odd - Fist for toughness for instance....
Hmm - need to see more before I decide.
Interesting figure shown seems to have lots of attacks (4 or 8 depending how it works) and lots of wounds (15)
Isn't the shield for Toughness and Fist for strength. Icons could be better alright it took me a minute to figure out each line was the statline for the weapon on the left.
DaveC wrote: Warcry will introduce 28mm bases for the first time.
Wait, seriously? Why?
Maxime mentions fighter classes of light, standard and heavy. The Iron Legionaries are standard and go on 28mm bases 32mm is for heavy, so I assume 25mm is for light (he mentions normal humans being on 25mm). It's at around the 24 minute mark in today's Stormcast.
DaveC wrote: Not all warbands are 8 minis Corvus Cabal and Unmade have 9 as do Untamed Beasts with their “hound”
Some may be 9 models, but the price will be €40, so €4.44 per model. That doesn't make it any better.
I can pick up two Warhammer Underworlds Warbands for just under €40. That gives me more models and loads of cards to use with them.
Sure the WC models are nice, bit it is going to take some serious effort for WC to replace WU as my go to fantasy skirmish game.
isn't the 40 euro the direct gw price? if yes then you should compare it to the gw price for underworlds where a warband cost €22.5, so its over €40 for 2 warbands. Besides that the amount of models realy depends on the warband. And last we don't know the sprues for warcry, we might be getting options
My mistake, for some reason I thought the WU Warbands were €18 each. Still a better deal at €45 for 2, anywhere from 6 large models to 16 slightly small models and a lot of cards to customise the play style.
From the recent preview the 4 cards to determine terrain, set up, mission, and twist are a nice touch. Will lead to a lot of replayabilty.
Voss wrote: Oh yeah. GW models really needed another base size.
That's... Fantastic.
I suspect future chaos releases (and reboxing) will involve 28mm bases. Orcs too.
---
Bah. Also more meaningless symbols, rather than words. Warmahordes wore me out on this particular trend, not happy to see more of it.
Still, good models, might be an interesting game regardless of the minor obstacles.
Given their history, I'm sure Ungors will be rebased onto 28mm bases. They changed base sizes from 5th to 6th, 6th to 7th (no new book in 8th) and onto 25mm rounds for AoS. New base size available means rebase your ungors.
The Signifier is actually holding a gong rather than Standard/Icon he's the only musician in the game (so far), no idea what he does as Maxime didn't go into detaisl.
DaveC wrote: Warcry will introduce 28mm bases for the first time.
Wait, seriously? Why?
Maxime mentions fighter classes of light, standard and heavy. The Iron Legionaries are standard and go on 28mm bases 32mm is for heavy, so I assume 25mm is for light (he mentions normal humans being on 25mm). It's at around the 24 minute mark in today's Stormcast.
That isn't actually a reason for new bases, though.
We had light and heavy cav for decades without different bases. (I was going to say distinct, but I'm not sure 3mm is distinct)
To be fair, "light" units tended to be Skirmishers which while not having a different base size didn't rank up.
Personally, I like this concept. It's something I've been saying that Infinity needs to do to differentiate their different units better--and I'm glad WarCry's doing it.
DaveC wrote: Warcry will introduce 28mm bases for the first time.
Wait, seriously? Why?
Maxime mentions fighter classes of light, standard and heavy. The Iron Legionaries are standard and go on 28mm bases 32mm is for heavy, so I assume 25mm is for light (he mentions normal humans being on 25mm). It's at around the 24 minute mark in today's Stormcast.
That isn't actually a reason for new bases, though.
We had light and heavy cav for decades without different bases. (I was going to say distinct, but I'm not sure 3mm is distinct)
I didn't particularly care for the introduction of 32mm bases, mostly because GW predictably started putting models on them that fit comfortably on 25mm bases, but given certain new, larger models that would be released later on I can at least see how an intermediate between 25mm and 40mm has a purpose.
But I can't help but think that 28mm bases must have been dreamed up by a stoned sculptor who was totally convinced that that was the perfect size for his latest sculpt. No more, no less. But really, I blame his manager who was no doubt just as high for greenlighting it.
GW should just offer a continuous range of bases that increase in 1mm increments and be done with it. Who needs standardization anyway?
The cynic in me says the real reason War Cry is doing new bases is to incentivize you to buy a new box of models (and a pack of new bases!) just for War Cry even if you want to use an old faction that you already own a full army's worth.
It looks like it is going to be about $150 US I guess. Not so bad that I won't pre-order a starter. If for nothing else, the terrain and board will make a good Kill Team sector. I don't have plans to expand further than the starter even though I suspect my FLGS might get really involved with this for least about half-a-year.
As for the poster (I forget who it was sorry) that wanted to know how long the Kill Team starter was around, I can tell you I managed to get mine just before Black Friday. However, at that point I think they were starting to get pretty rare with online retailers.
Off topic Kill Team commentary for the last few pages in the spoiler.
Spoiler:
I play quite a bit of Kill Team (like 3 games a week). I don't have Commanders nor Arena since they didn't hold enough interest for me to actually spend money. Heck, I don't even have Elites which is only partly incorporated at my FLGS at the moment. Basically, if a player wants to play Elites rules, they simply ask (or more accurately our Thousand Sons only has an Elites Kill Team) which unlocks those rules for the game. Honestly, most of the Kill Team additional units aren't very good and are fairly expensive (both money and points) so few players have any unless they already had some from playing full Kill Team. As for Subfaction Traits (read: Chapter Tactics) Traits, players mostly just pick the one they want to use if Elites rules are used. I am really the only one affected by the not really knowing if my team will or won't have its subfaction trait when playing Orks since they are painted as Bad Moons and I tend not to bring a whole lot of shooting. Even then, I could just say they are Goffs and it works out fine. The biggest issue I have is whether to include the additional tactics that were in the Kill Team starters. My personal code is for core only games which is still most games, I only use the tactics in the core rule book. Although, I don't hold my opponent to that (not much of an issue since few opponents have the starter box tactics anyways). And obviously, Elites tactics can be used in Elites game. I am sure there are players that would have absolute fits on how messy that is, but this group pretty easy going just wanting fun games. The point is: Kill Team works very well as simply toggling on or off the rule expansions and are not at all required to enter playing the game.
Kill Team is still cheap to get into. Just yesterday one of the teams I played as composed entirely out of the Necron Warriors box being 5 warriors and 4 flayed ones I made out of the Warrior models. It is a decently effective list, if a little boring not having any cool boys or toys. I will free admit, I don't really feel bad for any player that had a faction that didn't make it into the core rules. Because I wide number of kill teams could be purchased for $50-60 easy. Pretty average buy in for a good number of skirmish games today.
As for the Sisters of Battle, I get the impression that GW wanted to wait until plastic models were available before including them into Kill Team. For the most part, Kill Team tried to stick to units that have plastic kits. Obviously, there are exceptions here and there but other than the Eldar, every faction has a solid core of plastic kits to pick from for use in Kill Team. I have no doubt that SoB will have Kill Team rules (and be pretty good in Kill Team as well) once their plastic model kits are available. Part of me thinks SoB were left out because the weapon options in the plastic kits weren't entirely known (and Kill Team has habit of not allowing options that aren't in the kit) and/or they didn't want player speculating on what weapons would be in those kits based on their Kill Team datasheets. Also partly, think GW never really saw Kill Team holding enough interest that my the time the SoB plastic kits were available that Kill Team would still be all that popular. Finally, I also don't think GW thought players would buy the metal SoB in large enough numbers to bother including them in Kill Team. It would pretty much just be people that already had SoB which means they are maybe buying the core rule book which they may though it just not a big enough market to bother making rules for. Let's be fair, SoB players have been dumped on for so long that if they are still sticking at this point they are probably pretty used to be dumped on that they aren't really going to affect GW bottom line. Of course, it could be any combination of that or even none of it. Anyone that wants to use their SoB can easily just make them a count as of one of the other factions (heck a good number space marines and CSM players had their models as count as Deathwatch already), buy/use a different faction or just wait.
lord_blackfang wrote: The cynic in me says the real reason War Cry is doing new bases is to incentivize you to buy a new box of models (and a pack of new bases!) just for War Cry even if you want to use an old faction that you already own a full army's worth.
Yeah pretty much this plus making it harder to proxy warbands. I wonder if any of the non chaos 9 will use 28mm bases. They don't seem to be releasing them separately yet. Not that 3 or 4mm either way is really going to make a difference.
Saturmorn Carvilli wrote: It looks like it is going to be about $150 US I guess. Not so bad that I won't pre-order a starter. If for nothing else, the terrain and board will make a good Kill Team sector. I don't have plans to expand further than the starter even though I suspect my FLGS might get really involved with this for least about half-a-year.
Stop googling currency conversion, GW (actually no company) works like that. There's a pricing structure for each region. Warcry costs 130 euro in the EU which is the same as Shadowspear, which I believe cost $170 in the US.
Da Boss wrote: 28mm bases. For feck's sake! That is ridiculous.
It really, really is. Especially since if this whole light/medium/heavy thing is the reasoning for it they could have used pre-existing base sizes of 25/32/40, which would certainly be more noticeable than a 25/28/32 split. This just smacks of proprietary nonsense.
As for the poster (I forget who it was sorry) that wanted to know how long the Kill Team starter was around, I can tell you I managed to get mine just before Black Friday. However, at that point I think they were starting to get pretty rare with online retailers. [/spoiler]
That was me. Thanks. I am assuming and hoping that they should still have stock after one month, so I will be picking up my copy in August, as planned.
SnotlingPimpWagon wrote: 30 pounds for a warband is a bit much, I have to agree, though. Especially after Necromunda and Underworlds prices.
Actually, if they're confirmed as £30 per warband box I might still be on-board. I'd been led to believe they were £35 each, which would have been outrageous for 8-9 models, hence my somewhat intemperate reaction. £30 is still in the realm of stupidly expensive, but not quite the wrong side of unaffordable.
My original plan of buying the starter box plus at least one copy of each warband was based on them being priced similarly to Necromunda - i.e. £75 for the starter box plus £25 per 10-model warband kit. I was quite willing to pay around £200 to get one of everything plus some conversion fodder. I'm not going to pay £100 more for 20% fewer models than I expected, though.
Don't forget, you also get all the cards you need in the individual warband boxes. From Warhammer Community page:
"This warband set contains models plus rules for using them in your games in the form of sets of cards. An abilities card allows you to master the underhanded tactics, dazzling ploys and special moves available to the Cypher Lords. Meanwhile, a set of fighter cards make checking the characteristics for your warriors simple. These are just one of a host of new warbands on the way – some of which we’ve already seen…"
GW goes a little stupid with their icons...and the reasoning is two-fold.
1) Icons means no translating. This is hugely common in board games, etc. If you want to market to numerous regions, the few things you need to translate the better - so a lot of game tokens, cards. etc. will feature as many icons as possible. Icon dice etc.
2) GW, though, to protect their IP and have more room for legal action tend to throw in some really bizarre and over-complex icons here and there...so 3rd party token makers will be harder pressed to make copy-cat items.
I have to say the $50 USD for 8 figures thing is a killer though. When I can get some excellent Underworlds minis for $20-ish, that's...laughable, even if the Warcry ones are more bits, etc. $40....I would have tried to find some on-sale, but at $50 it's probably all a no-go for me. Shame, but not surprising.
I personally would get the rules and then buy the HATE board
Game base set. Lots of chaos looking warband guys for a fraction of the cost. I think there are 8 - 10 warbands in the main game alone.
Really, the more I look at it, the more it feels like another phoned-in ruleset. We have about 10 model types sharing a total of 6 special skills (most of which are very simplistic, the first one is even just a basic ranged weapon masquerading as a skill) in the example faction with no obvious place for any customization or campaign "leveling" whatsoever.
lord_blackfang wrote: Really, the more I look at it, the more it feels like another phoned-in ruleset. We have about 10 model types sharing a total of 6 special skills (most of which are very simplistic, the first one is even just a basic ranged weapon masquerading as a skill) in the example faction with no obvious place for any customization or campaign "leveling" whatsoever.
We have no details on how the campaign system(s) work yet. It might be wargear and ability upgrades are generic to either armies or to grand alliances. It might even be that those details are in the main book rather than on cards in the boxed set. Until we get the full information its a bit early to be doomglooming.
Not-not-kenny wrote: We have confirmed injury rolls, which to me is a good sign for the campaign system.
This makes me very happy.
I have a sneaking suspicion that the Runemarks each fight have not only allow access to different Warband abilities, but also allow access to different "advancement trees" to get new skills etc. At least that's how I imagine advancement will be handled.
I'm worried by the lack of modularity. If 4 iron golems are mono build and the other 4 only have two weapon choice, it looks like there wont be a lot of customisation and that every band of one type will have a quite similar roster.
Also 8 minis with few options for more than a modular 10-man gang of necromunda is disapointing.
Da Boss wrote: 28mm bases. For feck's sake! That is ridiculous.
While I hate it, it's also about time they fix the double-rank units with 1" weapons. This is their way of doing it, I have no doubt about it.
Now change the basing guide and remove 25mm bases, and force to play like they had 28mm bases - done. No one needs to rebase but there's no way you could attack through another base with a 1" weapon now, because you need to pretend that your 25mm bases are now 28mm.
Saturmorn Carvilli wrote: It looks like it is going to be about $150 US I guess. Not so bad that I won't pre-order a starter. If for nothing else, the terrain and board will make a good Kill Team sector. I don't have plans to expand further than the starter even though I suspect my FLGS might get really involved with this for least about half-a-year.
Stop googling currency conversion, GW (actually no company) works like that. There's a pricing structure for each region. Warcry costs 130 euro in the EU which is the same as Shadowspear, which I believe cost $170 in the US.
You are correct. My mistake. Does make pause on picking it up at that price. I think I will need a gentle push in making up some bad excuse to rationalize it since I still want to get it. All the contents are things I want to paint except maybe the Sigmar head (that is Sigmar right?) terrain piece.
At those prices this is a hard miss for me. I'll pick up the furies on eBay and be good.
$170 USD for a game with 28 monopose plastic miniatures and some terrain is obscene.
lord_blackfang wrote: The cynic in me says the real reason War Cry is doing new bases is to incentivize you to buy a new box of models (and a pack of new bases!) just for War Cry even if you want to use an old faction that you already own a full army's worth.
Yeah if its 50 bucks for a monopose 8-9 man warband i'll pass. Not to mention 170 usd for the starter. At these prices the game just becomes instantly less accessible. I think i'd rather just buy half a dozen blood bowl teams instead, the replayability i'd get from those far exceeds what this starter box could offer.
It's nice that there appear to be a few options for alternate builds in the boxes. The standard appears to have a big hammer replacement, some of the iron legionaries have alternate weapons (some of the weapon options look nearly identical, but eh), etc. Still, I can't see myself buying a second box of a same unit, since most will look identical.
At that price they couldn't even made a normal 2 different normal sprue kit. They just had to make these 1 and a half normal sprue kit.
Don't get me wrong, they look great compared to some kits they made years back like the Bloodreaver in AoS starter, but I think they could do better than that.
Gallahad wrote: At those prices this is a hard miss for me. I'll pick up the furies on eBay and be good. $170 USD for a game with 28 monopose plastic miniatures and some terrain is obscene.
The new Infinity Starter is $130 with half the figures, in metal, an carboard terrain and people are buying that up with no real price complaints.
I can definitely understand people being turned off by the price, because $170 on a new game with no history or established player base (at least yet) is a big investment for a lot of people.
On the other hand the $170 starter is set has a ton of value in it compared to most miniature games. You get two complete warbands, all the rules and battleplan stuff (which looks like it offers a lot of replayability), all the terrain you need, a game board, all the dice wandering monsters, and other accessories. If you want to play either of the Warbands in the starter it is literally everything you need to play indefinitely with exception of maybe adding more models to your warband down the road in the campaign (not sure how that works).
I understand it doesn't have as many models as the AoS or 40k starter, but those games need a minimum number of models for a half decent play experience. And neither of those boxes offer anything close to a complete game experience.. You need hundreds of dollars of more models, terrain, and a large gaming space to play them.
At least that's how I look at it. To me the starter is definitely worth it.
Sabotage! wrote: I understand it doesn't have as many models as the AoS or 40k starter, but those games need a minimum number of models for a half decent play experience.
And neither of those starters come with a (quite densely packed) table's worth of terrain. That cannot be ignored.
Getting upset at the price is like beating a dead horse, it's been going for quite a while now.
And 'option" in these warband kits(and a lot of other new kits) are just "sprue filler" rather than something fun "for the players", "fun" cost money so fun had to go.
Despite initial trepidation, I have been enjoying kill team’s small footprint and quicker play time. Warcry looks to be a great addition to the options in that category. The terrain and boards will be quite usable to change things up for KT.
The new Infinity Starter is $130 with half the figures, in metal, an carboard terrain and people are buying that up with no real price complaints.
Did you need to post this in both news threads?
Yep.
What's you goal here?
The $170 price for this seams expensive until you compare it to the competition which is way more expensive or maybe since I mostly buy non-GW stuff I don't know how cheap prices can be? I posted in the Infinity thread because if $170 for what you get is considered outrageous in this thread why does the Infinity players put up with CB's prices as clearly they're more expensive? Very reasonable question to ask. I ordered the Infinity set and didn't think it's a bad price, by what people are saying about Warcry the Infinity stuff is significantly overpriced and I should be pissed and leading a pitchfork mob to burn down CB's headquarters. Hell the Infinity 2-player sets don't even contain complete army lists so you have to buy more stuff to even play the game so it's even more for less. So basically I don't understand the price complaints or I'm an idiot for buying a popular skirmish game that's way overpriced.
I like the terrain, don't care about the actual game, and wouldn't use this as anything short of fill ins for WFB armies. The only issue I foresee is a complete lack of being able to get these to rank up at all. Past that, if it lasts long enough, there might be enough variety per faction to maybe repurpose the hell out of these for some of the races that never got armies in the Old World.
If eBay sales were still a thing, the price would be far more palatable. A $170 would be $122.50 shipped with the old 15% eBay sales. Sadly, a thing of the past.
The new Infinity Starter is $130 with half the figures, in metal, an carboard terrain and people are buying that up with no real price complaints.
Did you need to post this in both news threads?
Yep.
What's you goal here?
The $170 price for this seams expensive until you compare it to the competition which is way more expensive or maybe since I mostly buy non-GW stuff I don't know how cheap prices can be? I posted in the Infinity thread because if $170 for what you get is considered outrageous in this thread why does the Infinity players put up with CB's prices as clearly they're more expensive? Very reasonable question to ask. I ordered the Infinity set and didn't think it's a bad price, by what people are saying about Warcry the Infinity stuff is significantly overpriced and I should be pissed and leading a pitchfork mob to burn down CB's headquarters. Hell the Infinity 2-player sets don't even contain complete army lists so you have to buy more stuff to even play the game so it's even more for less. So basically I don't understand the price complaints or I'm an idiot for buying a popular skirmish game that's way overpriced.
Bit of a straw man here, isn't it? I am not buying Infinity either. Are the people who are saying they will not buy Warcry in the Infinity thread saying they WILL buy Infinity? How many of them are there? Infinity is over priced but I am not interested in it. Privateer Press is also over priced, but like GW I am interested in it. But I only buy stuff discounted these days. Same is true for GW- I look for what I consider good value and if I see it I am happy to pay. If I think it is not good value I just don't buy, I am not going down to Nottingham with a torch and pitchfork to burn down GWHQ.
Nibbler wrote: But Underworld is a boardgame, isn't it?
I think you can't really compare the two of them...
Underworlds is an odd one to place for GW, it is more of a hybrid game, it has elements from boardgames, miniature games, and card games. I think having the hex spaces for movement and distance firmly places it as a boardgame in people's mind.
Warcry looks to most certainly be a miniature game, the game board has no movement spaces and instead uses a measurement device.
Beside the game the models are used for WU still offers more value for model count. If I buy 2 of the Stormcast Warbands I have 6 large models, if I buy 2 of the more numerous Warbands I have 16 models. Warcry Warbands seem to be 8-9 models. The Warcry models may have more options, but the Underworlds have ease of assembly, so both can be seen as positives.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Sounds like the kind of thing a shop would buy that contains a whole bunch of individual packs.
Weird thing to have on the purchase list if the packs are all the same...
Why? There’s 9 different packs, this is just a stand or whatever to hold them.
The card packs are clearly GW tapping into the existing "collectable card" MANUFACTURE side of things in their hired factories in China. GW has for a long while had a clear issue with getting more than one print-run order of the cards they use for games. This was annoying, but sort of ok for things like Warscroll cards because the info is also in the apps, codex/battletomes and for AoS also online. Basically the info is in mutliple places. For games like Killteam and Adepticus Titanicus and now Warcry, those game cards are supposed to be part of the product in the long term, not just the short term. So running out is a major issue for GW.
Clearly their method they are experimenting with now is to go with what is established and use collectable card manufacture which might well be better established over in China as a product chain which also allows for reprints and re-orders perhaps in smaller volumes - so GW can restock later without having to make a huge order that would likely leave them with a lot of stock sitting on pallets and taking up space and might even exceed projections for the games lifespan (or at least the games current rules edition lifespan).
So yeah they will be card packs sold in "booster boxes". The main issue for 3rd parties might be that if one army proves really popular they can't easily restock just on that one, but the bonus should be that GW can make more orders through the year and keep them in stock fur the duration of Warcry's lifespan/rules edition lifespan.
The only minor confusing point is people miss-interpreting them to be "random packs" which honestly is only an issue if you're the kind of person who only looks at packaging and never looks or asks what a product is. It will likely not cause confusion at all.
That means at least the board and cards are free, right? Wrong. The base set contains 2 copies each of 3 different sprues.
It is evident from the cover pricture that the Kill Zone contains 2 sprues less than the base set. At first I noted that there was only 1 main gate, but the other could be on the other side of the box, as the cover art extends across multiple facings. But I squinted a little and determined that there are no repeats of any components of the gate sprue or the base plate sprue on the cover at all - note that half the crypts clearly have no bases. You are getting 2 crypt sprues, 1 gate sprue and 1 base plate sprue. So you are giving up 1/3 of the plastic content to get the folding board and terrain rules card (presumably).
Unless that image wraps around on 3 sides and the 3rd side (the other short end of the box) we can't see. Until we see the pack opened up we don't know the contents for sure.
Ok, just to put my own fears to rest, GW confirmed to me that the other Warband "boosters" are not random. They are set, and have all the cards needed for that particular warband.
Overread wrote: Unless that image wraps around on 3 sides and the 3rd side (the other short end of the box) we can't see. Until we see the pack opened up we don't know the contents for sure.
Yeah maybe the third side is full of empty crypt bases
Elbows wrote: If eBay sales were still a thing, the price would be far more palatable. A $170 would be $122.50 shipped with the old 15% eBay sales. Sadly, a thing of the past.
ebay in the US were running a pretty regular promotion of 15% off about once a week for quite a while so people timed their Warhammer shopping to coincide with it (and since they were from 3rd party suppliers there was usually a discount off retail anyway)
this seems to have stopped so no more superdiscounts
Yeah I was jealous of all those big ebay sales - I think the UK had a 10% once or twice but most of them are limited to just "electronics/household" or other specific markets.
I guess that Ebay USA was using the sales to help drive up interest in using their service over others.
Glad to see a separate rulebook will be available. For around $50 I should be good to go with some of my Gloomspite Gitz and I'll be able to pick up some of the warbands at a later date.
Oh yeah Bonesplitterz! Let's here it for unit diversity!!!
Do you want to bring a Savage Orc boy? Or maybe even a Savage Orc boy? Or perhaps, and this might be a radical choice that few players would think of taking, but a Savage Orc boy?
In fairness orks are in a really bad way in AoS - forget all the gripes from 40K; the AoS orks are really toughed up. Goblin grots are their own army; meanwhile we wound up with 3 ork armies (now down to 2) which were basically the very same them just in different styles.
Big boss
Big boss on mount
ork warriors with close combat choppas
bigger ork warriors with choppas
orks on boars
dancing ork
shaman ork
So yeah orks need lots of attention from GW to at least get some diversity between the different forces other than if they wear armour or not. That said poor bonesplitters, but its not too bad, don't forget all the Chaos Warbands we are seeing are limited to 1 roster of models too.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Oh yeah Bonesplitterz! Let's here it for unit diversity!!!
Do you want to bring a Savage Orc boy? Or maybe even a Savage Orc boy? Or perhaps, and this might be a radical choice that few players would think of taking, but a Savage Orc boy?
Since these look to be kits and not units, you'll possibly be able to use Arrowboys and Morboys as well as Savage Orruks.
Great they would pick Stormcast Vanguard the only kits I don’t own! At least I have enough for Nighthaunt, GSG and LoN on hand. Some of the lists are very limited.
Hmm... looking over that I actually have enough to do Goblins as well as Flesh Eater Courts (as long as you don't need more than 12 Ghouls and 3 Crypt Horrors). Not bad. That's nice to know.
Ghaz wrote: Since these look to be kits and not units, you'll possibly be able to use Arrowboys and Morboys as well as Savage Orruks.
Oh I fully expect that there will be the different types they've made up since AoS came about, but it's just funny that their entire Warband is made up of one kit.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Hmm... looking over that I actually have enough to do Goblins as well as Flesh Eater Courts (as long as you don't need more than 12 Ghouls and 3 Crypt Horrors). Not bad. That's nice to know.
Ghaz wrote: Since these look to be kits and not units, you'll possibly be able to use Arrowboys and Morboys as well as Savage Orruks.
Oh I fully expect that there will be the different types they've made up since AoS came about, but it's just funny that their entire Warband is made up of one kit.
Other than characters, Bonesplitterz only have two kits (infantry and cavalry).
I doubt that list is real just based on the stormcast. Why would they be the only ranged army in the game? And the raptors are way overpowered for a skirmish game, usually they take on large monsters or hordes. Liberators should definitely be on that list at a minimum.
Chopstick wrote: So they pick "machine gun" Vanguard Stormcast to turn these melee chaos warband into pin cushion?
Sound like fun (or cancerous).
Don't forget the game plays out on a small terrain heavy board. So sure you've got a missile weapon, but you're not going to get big open spaces to use it. Furthermore if you can see them to shoot they can see you to charge.
dt4k87 wrote: I doubt that list is real just based on the stormcast. Why would they be the only ranged army in the game? And the raptors are way overpowered for a skirmish game, usually they take on large monsters or hordes. Liberators should definitely be on that list at a minimum.
According to this list, ruleswise Sigmarines get crossbow dudes, crossbow dudes and crossbow dudes. And pets.
By the background, they get the kind of sneaky ranger dudes that of all Sigmarines would be the most likely to pop up behind enemy lines.
Could go either way, but knowing GW if I had to guess I'd say they'd pick troops based on background and worry about the rules later (or not at all, on occasion).
Chopstick wrote: So they pick "machine gun" Vanguard Stormcast to turn these melee chaos warband into pin cushion?
Sound like fun (or cancerous).
Don't forget the game plays out on a small terrain heavy board. So sure you've got a missile weapon, but you're not going to get big open spaces to use it. Furthermore if you can see them to shoot they can see you to charge.
Looking at the sample unit card, I think there's going to be a lot more ranged than our previous experience with chaos mortals in Warhammer suggests, on top of the various ranged abilities that will be kicking around (the Iron Golem ogre thing apparently throws bolas 6" on a double something, for example). Which isn't to say Vanguard wouldn't still be elite shooters, it's just not as much of an empty field when it comes to missiles (also literally, re: Overread's comment). Don't Vanguard also make sense from a ranger-y fluff perspective?
FEC have Crypt horror but gloomspite gitz didn't get the Troggoth? :(. I really like those guys.
Guess that will be in the expansion...someday.
And Legion of Nagash is the only band that had a hero.
Also Nighthaunt, Legion of Nagash, Stormcast, Ironjawz, Gloomspite gitz can also used Shadespire warband for more flavor
lord_blackfang wrote: vanguard are in there because they are what passes for Light Infantry in their faction.
None of them are light infantry, they all wear the same thick armor. The one from Warrior Chamber would be their most common run of the mill infantry,
I just made that comment for fun, personally I would pick Vanguard chamber for this game too, for better or worse, I like dakka after all, warrior "hammer time" chamber would be too boring.
Gues we'll be needing that Flesh Eater Courts warband in season 3. Maybe some Savage Orks and Daughters while we're at it.
For as poorly as my Vanguard's crossbows have done in Underworlds I won't be too concerned about their ranged attacks. I get a feeling a lot of people will have some sort of ranged special like others have already mentioned.
On the "booster" pack thing, this is the Star Realms Crisis expansion. It's split over 4 individual "booster" packs, each of the four has different packaging, and the exact same set of cards in each type of packaging. No random element. They're still sold to shops in "booster boxes" for display purposes (as many stores won't otherwise have something suitable for displaying them). This sort of production is already established in China and so GW are likely using the same sort of thing.
judgedoug wrote: Lol hope ya'll don't play Necromunda where your faction gets one box.
Or Kill Team where most factions get 1 box, 2 if they're lucky!
Necromunda does have more options beyond just the main gang boxes, though. You can hire bounty hunters, juves, hive scum, brutes, etc, to add more variety to your faction. FW is even adding Guilds in the future, so thats even more models to collect.
judgedoug wrote: Lol hope ya'll don't play Necromunda where your faction gets one box.
Or Kill Team where most factions get 1 box, 2 if they're lucky!
Necromunda ganger get at least 4,5 weapons choice in each box, and potentially dozen and hundred if you play the game and do conversion.
The only faction in base Killteam that really only have 1 box that I can remember is Harlequin and GK. Other get at least 2, factions with 3+ boxes are also not uncommon .
stonehorse wrote: I hope that list is wrong... poor Savage Orcs, at least their warband requires only one box.
I really don't understand why so many factions have been split up into smaller factions in AoS. It creates some 'interesting' results.
They were combined into one faction on GW webstore for a while.
I don't know why GW give the Sea Aelves Eel Rider but Savage Orruk couldn't get the boar bois?
Its pretty half assed - so just like Kill Team.
Maybe we will haev "Cavalry" boxes later for some factions and then "Heroes" for others.
Water Elves already have cavalry, and Skeleton Undead have a character.
They could have at least added Savage Orc boar riders. Still what is funny is that the Savage Orc box set has a lot of weapon options... so they may end up having the most variety.
I won't lie, I'm really puzzled as to why the Idoneth got Akhelian Knights. The only possible explanation I can think of is that they're considered fairly tame in terms of how they work and since a lot of what they do in AoS proper(specifically the spears) is situational maybe they're able to work in the game?
I don't think we should believe that image is legit at this point. It's possible that it's from someone who has seen the cards, but it's certainly not a GW made image.
It could be true, but if it doesn't make sense, it's entirely possible because it's just someone's ideas of what might be in them.
frozenwastes wrote: I don't think we should believe that image is legit at this point. It's possible that it's from someone who has seen the cards, but it's certainly not a GW made image.
It could be true, but if it doesn't make sense, it's entirely possible because it's just someone's ideas of what might be in them.
Nobody said it's a GW made image.
And frankly, it makes far more sense than Liberators or Sequitors and whatnot. They handled Vanguard abysmally in Skirmish and Path to Glory.
Well, one can see it as a counterpart to Necromunda.
JJ said that a typical warband has 6 to 12 models including a leader. Each model can be named and the warband can be given a background story.
The models shown look really great.
frozenwastes wrote: I don't think we should believe that image is legit at this point. It's possible that it's from someone who has seen the cards, but it's certainly not a GW made image.
It could be true, but if it doesn't make sense, it's entirely possible because it's just someone's ideas of what might be in them.
Nobody said it's a GW made image.
And frankly, it makes far more sense than Liberators or Sequitors and whatnot. They handled Vanguard abysmally in Skirmish and Path to Glory.
People are reacting to it like it is some sort of official image. I was just pointing out that it was not something GW made. It's literally a cropped section of a spreadsheet that anyone could have made in a few minutes.
It's possible that it's legit, but there's really no reason to believe that it is at this point. Like someone could have seen the cards and quicly gone through them and made the little image, but how likely is that? I think it's more likely a wishlist or a 4chan discussion image.
One of Warcry’s most powerful fighter types, this massive wall of meat and metal is a match for pretty much anyone in the game. Sure, with a move of only 4″ they’re slow – but their Strength of 6 and Damage of 4 (8 on a critical hit) allows them to pulverise pretty much anyone unfortunate enough to stand in front of them.
Iron Legionaries are the core of any Iron Golem warband, boasting an excellent Toughness characteristic of 5 when armed with shields. Combined with their low points cost, you’ll want to use them to slow down enemy fighters while the rest of your warband causes carnage.
Key Abilities
In Warcry, each warband isn’t just defined by its fighters, but also by its abilities – powerful tricks, ploys and tactical plays with the potential to shift the tides of battle. But just how do they work?
Initiative and Ability Dice
Every battle round in Warcry begins with both players rolling for initiative. To do so, each player first rolls 6 dice and then counts up the number of ‘singles’ they have – a single is a dice that does not have the same result as any other dice in that roll. For example, if you rolled three 1s, a 3, a 4, and a 5, you would have three singles (the 3, 4 and 5). The player who rolls the most singles has the initiative for that battle round.
The rest of the dice become ability dice which can be spent on powerful abilities and killer moves during that battle round. These are sorted into doubles, triples or quads. Let’s look at another example:
So here, our opponent (red dice) has 3 singles – 2, 3 and 5 – meaning they win the initiative, as well as triple 4s, while we have a double and a quad. During the battle round, when it’s our turn to activate one of the fighters from our warband, we can choose to spend either that double or quad to unleash an ability.
Each warband has access to a host of different abilities unique to them as well as a table of universal abilities. Most abilities will require a double to use, the more powerful ones will require a triple to use, and then each Warband has access to one MEGA ability that requires a quad.
Each Warband’s abilities reflect how they fight in the lore, with the Iron Golem offering both tactical maneuvres and explosive bursts of damage.
Bit surprised they did not use command points adn cards for abilities.
J
J said that a typical warband has 6 to 12 models including a leader. Each model can be named and the warband can be given a background story.
The models shown look really great.
Agreed models look good.
You can arm and equip your models with a variety of weapons etc in Necromunda. This does not appear to be the case with Warcry except for some rank and file units?
You can name any model and any unit in any system!
That's an interesting and unique initiative/ability system. It's certainly novel, but at the same time, the make it or break it thing for me is going to be how activations are handled (I don't really want it to be phase based, like Kill Team, for a melee-centric game; I'd prefer alternating individual activations) and what options are there for team building and campaign advancement (models have points, but it seems like the warbands are fairly set).
Interesting article. I'm actually impressed that the warband is not only from a specific realm but a specific place on the map. Aside from the megacities, that seems almost unprecedented for AoS.
The mechanics.... I wasn't expecting Yahtzee levels of lol!random. That living battering ram, for example, is going to be hard to pull off, especially on such a slow model. To use it at all, half your dice aren't counting towards initiative, which means enemies are likely moving away at a speed you can't match.
Hmm. I wonder if any warbands get dice manipulation abilities? Those would be worth a lot.
Automatically Appended Next Post: @Sqorgar- give the mention of 'our turn to activate one of the fighters,' alternate activation seems very likely.
There is alot less customisation (well very little) and we donlt know how the campaign works - it looks like you pay X number of games you get something.
It seems more like something like Malifaux where your models have (very handy) cards but are fixed including weapons and skills but also abilities that require luck to pull off (although Malifaux also has the cheat mechanic)
People are reacting to it like it is some sort of official image. I was just pointing out that it was not something GW made. It's literally a cropped section of a spreadsheet that anyone could have made in a few minutes.
It's possible that it's legit, but there's really no reason to believe that it is at this point. Like someone could have seen the cards and quicly gone through them and made the little image, but how likely is that? I think it's more likely a wishlist or a 4chan discussion image.
The timeframe for it coming out matches with when independents should be getting their info for "how to talk about" the product.
Sure, it could be faked...but when one factors in that the relatively small-ish size of "Fighter Selection"(the Iron Golems bit yesterday had 10)? It actually jives fairly well with what got revealed yesterday.
It certainly could be that case that there will be so few options and the ones they picked for stormcast are all ranged plus gryph hounds. Maybe to sell some kits that have been sitting stagnant. Maybe there's an inventory build up of the vanguard chamber and gryph hounds so they're going to make it the only stormcast in Warcry. I think the image is plausible but I don't think it should just be accepted as real.
As for the initiative It'll be interesting to see how the rest of the phases work. "The player who rolls the most singles has the initiative for that battle round." So does that mean it's going to be IGOUGO with each player doing their hero-move-shoot-charge-fight-bravery type thing like in AoS, or will there be more integration?
Later on we find: "During the battle round, when it’s our turn to activate one of the fighters from our warband, we can choose to spend either that double or quad to unleash an ability. "
Alternating individual model activation would be a huge change for an AoS based game. Could be initiative and the battle round works more like the Lord of the Rings minaiture game.
In case you didn't notice, this paragraph from the article seems to suggest alternating activation-underline my emphasis: "So here, our opponent (red dice) has 3 singles – 2, 3 and 5 – meaning they win the initiative, as well as triple 4s, while we have a double and a quad. During the battle round, when it’s our turn to activate one of the fighters from our warband, we can choose to spend either that double or quad to unleash an ability. "
frozenwastes wrote:
As for the initiative It'll be interesting to see how the rest of the phases work. "The player who rolls the most singles has the initiative for that battle round." So does that mean it's going to be IGOUGO with each player doing their hero-move-shoot-charge-fight-bravery type thing like in AoS, or will there be more integration?
There's not enough to go on from that alone. AoS still has initiative, but it is just which player does their entire turn first in the battle round, but Necromunda has initiative for alternating activations. I want to believe...
Later on we find: "During the battle round, when it’s our turn to activate one of the fighters from our warband, we can choose to spend either that double or quad to unleash an ability. "
This does not completely mean alternating activations, but it does at least mean that models are activated individually rather than in phases (like Kill Team). KT never calls it "activating" a model; it's always "choose a model to move" or whatever. And the fact that they say "activate ONE of the fighters" is promising. But since this ability seems to take the place of an activation, it is still possible to be ME-TEAM-U-TEAM - which is still okay-ish with me.
My problem with the phase-based approach that Kill Team uses is that it really drains away the individuality of the models. They move as a team, they shoot as a team, they fight as a team. They may be unique among the team, but they never feel like their are acting independently - which is fine for Kill Team since most of them are just soldiers fighting in a unit, but I don't want it for Warcry. I also think that in a melee-centric game, it'll just become move all the fighters into a clump, do the fighting, clump some more, fight, clump, fight. I like my models in skirmish games to leap across a gap, climb up a wall, jump down from the other side, and backstab some guy while all the other models just stand there in awe.
wuestenfux wrote: Well, one can see it as a counterpart to Necromunda.
JJ said that a typical warband has 6 to 12 models including a leader. Each model can be named and the warband can be given a background story.
This boils down to a page of random tables for names, backgrounds and personality quirks for each faction, same as appears in Kill Team. We have seen no hint whatsoever of any actual customization beyond the same body being used to build two different (but specific) fighter types.
Sqorgar wrote: I also think that in a melee-centric game, it'll just become move all the fighters into a clump, do the fighting, clump some more, fight, clump, fight. I like my models in skirmish games to leap across a gap, climb up a wall, jump down from the other side, and backstab some guy while all the other models just stand there in awe.
Very true. This is a problem for Middle Earth SBG's skirmish game, Battle Companies.
If thats one annoying thing about Kill Team that I hope they get right for Warcry - a set of red/blue tokens for those who just purchase the core manual, even if sold separately from the manual itself. Obviously they sold them in the faction box sets but you needed to purchase two for a two player game and they had designs specific to a faction...urgh. Its alright if you are just a lone player who is covering themself, but there are gamers who host games and provide all the essential pieces.
I guessed cards plus dice for somewhat tactical combat. Maybe some card bidding mechanics to spend the "glory" or "fame" you've earned so far. Oh well. With the way several warbands are styled - and described by Maxime Pastourel - as hit and run/poisoners in their combat style I hope that at least movement, disengaging, positioning matters.
Didn't Jervis say that you'd be able to play three games in an hour, though? Not that much room for much finesse if it's over so quick, though.
Binabik15 wrote: I guessed cards plus dice for somewhat tactical combat. Maybe some card bidding mechanics to spend the "glory" or "fame" you've earned so far. Oh well. With the way several warbands are styled - and described by Maxime Pastourel - as hit and run/poisoners in their combat style I hope that at least movement, disengaging, positioning matters.
Didn't Jervis say that you'd be able to play three games in an hour, though? Not that much room for much finesse if it's over so quick, though.
I’m pretty sure he said you’d be able to play a game in under an hour.
Edit: yeah just watched it again and he said ‘you’ll be getting through games in under an hour’, not ‘three games’.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Looks like 2 new warbands coming at some point.
So the actual origin of the earlier picture which purported to spell out which units are in the card packs is just that people are sharing it on WhatsApp. That's it.
Might be a real summary someone with the cards made, could be a wishlist, could be totally fake.
Voss wrote: Scions of the Flame sound really interesting. Interesting to see a departure from the bog-standard Chaos dogma.
The models could be rather creative as well.
I thought they sounded a bit like a fantasy version of the Word Bearers.
... how so?
They worship a giant fire god, hunt and devour giant lizards and become pillars of living flame, and believe that everybody will die in fire. I don't recognize Word Bearers in that.
How do you guys feel about the initiative hero phase dice thing, seems kinda clunky to me. I wouldn't look forward to that part of the game. Is that really the best they could come up with for picking who gets initiative?
The whole initiative system is kind of cool if you ask me, I like that it can result in initiative, special abilities, or both. I think it's kind of fitting for a game focused around Chaos.
The combat rules look pretty straightforward and I like how damage is handled with toughness, weapon strength, and variable damage for criticals.
Both the Scions of the Flame and Spire Tyrants sound pretty cool. Scions are our flame real guys and I imagine Spire Tyrants will be more akin to traditional Chaos Warriors/Marauders. Nice to see more products are lined up.
I think playing Yahtzee for initiative might be jumping the shark a little. Plenty of decent games have a random roll for resources tho, it doesn't have to be bad.
It's an interesting idea, actually. Either you have initiative, but lesser abilities, or you don't have initiative but more abilities (if you have a higher number of singles, that means the other as more double/triple/others than you).
Still random, yes, but actually gives a counterpart. Clever mechanism.
It looks like all defensive characteristics (armour, skill with your weapon, speed, difficulty to injure) is all rolled into Toughness. Strength vs Toughness, dice equal to your attacks with the weapon, sixes give criticals for more wounds.
I think it might actually work quite well.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I pulled out six dice and started doing some initiative rolls. It's actually really fast. Like I'm a bit surprised how quickly I rolled, got things sorted and done. Six seems like a good number of dice to do this sort of thing. I guess Yahtzee was on to something with it's five dice. Going for 10 or something would be way worse.
So, "players take it in turns to activate the fighters in their warband" - seems like alternating activations to me (yay).
Also, it's interesting that the combat is just S > T wound rolls. No to hit, no saving throw, no flesh wounds. Also, simplified from 40k greatly. There's no S >= 2xT or S <= T/2.1 or 2 always misses, 5 or 6 always hits (6s are criticals). You really only need to pay attention for the 3s and 4s.
Now, I'm curious about the Runemarks. The models don't seem to have special attacks themselves (no key words, no rules, no abilities), with the specials being done by Runemarks. So every model with the same Runemark can do that ability. Are there models with multiple Runemarks? The Chaotic Beasts, which we know you can add to your warband at some point, use the same Runemarks - does that mean the warband inherits these abilities with the beasts? Can an Iron Golem with the right Runemarks now perform a "Cower" or "Crazed Block"? Does the Chaotic Beasts count as a warband, in and of itself? Does these mean we can add models from different warbands together?
Ugh. This is just so frustrating. Why are they giving us bits of the puzzle, but leaving the actual gameplay of the game frustratingly obtuse? I think I've changed my mind three or four times about what I'm going to preorder - like I was going to get the Stormcast cards, but they are all Vanguard (I only have the Underworlds warband). Are the Battleplan cards sold separately the same as the ones in the box or does the box include more (or less) due to it also being a unique Ravaged Land? Hell, is it worth having more than one box of a particular warband?
Right now I just want to see the other band's roster card and abilities. Not entirely happy with some "options" for iron golem being just different look for the same weapon on pawn units, or something pretty pointless like hand holding a head.
Chopstick wrote: Right now I just want to see the other band's roster card and abilities. Not entirely happy with some "options" for iron golem being just different look for the same weapon on pawn units, or something pretty pointless like hand holding a head.
The one holding a head (in the photos from WarhammerFest?) was a conversion I’m pretty sure. There was a sign near that cluster that said ‘includes conversions’.
Chopstick wrote: Right now I just want to see the other band's roster card and abilities. Not entirely happy with some "options" for iron golem being just different look for the same weapon on pawn units, or something pretty pointless like hand holding a head.
The one holding a head (in the photos from WarhammerFest?) was a conversion I’m pretty sure. There was a sign near that cluster that said ‘includes conversions’.
No, it's from the kit, it's holding a helmet actually, from the Untamed Beast, but i don't feel like typing out all that so i just said "a head"
I think that space could be used for drillmaster's alternative loadout, or that duardin could have a better pose if he had more space on the sprue.
Chopstick wrote: Right now I just want to see the other band's roster card and abilities. Not entirely happy with some "options" for iron golem being just different look for the same weapon on pawn units, or something pretty pointless like hand holding a head.
The one holding a head (in the photos from WarhammerFest?) was a conversion I’m pretty sure. There was a sign near that cluster that said ‘includes conversions’.
This one yep it’s a conversion I believe it’s Sams as he mentioned painting his yellow and using earlier prototype parts
The super reduced combat style is probably why you have models with 10-30 wounds as well. They probably should have changed the stat from Strength/Toughness to simply 'Attack/Defense" etc. if they've done away with other considerations. Your Attack value could simply be the overall combination of your abilities/strength/equipment, etc.
I'm not seeing anything rules-wise that blows my skirt up. Seems pretty standard fare.
Now, I'm curious about the Runemarks. The models don't seem to have special attacks themselves (no key words, no rules, no abilities), with the specials being done by Runemarks. So every model with the same Runemark can do that ability. Are there models with multiple Runemarks? The Chaotic Beasts, which we know you can add to your warband at some point, use the same Runemarks - does that mean the warband inherits these abilities with the beasts? Can an Iron Golem with the right Runemarks now perform a "Cower" or "Crazed Block"? Does the Chaotic Beasts count as a warband, in and of itself? Does these mean we can add models from different warbands together?
You will note that the ability card for Iron Golems has 2 runemarks tied to each ability but the first. You need both to use the ability. And the first one is the faction runemark. It's very possible that the ability runemark graphics are the same across all factions and, for example, the flaming skull simply represents the ultimate ability for each warband - it's the combination with the faction runemark that tells you which particular ability the model has. In other words, the flaming skull on a card means "This model has the 6th Tier ability of its faction". This would explain why the graphics are so generic and in no way indicative of the ability they represent.
Strange/disappointing CC-mechanics where the targets Weapon Skill is not considered at all.
I.e. targets just stand there and brace for impact, hoping their Toughness and myriad Wounds will save them :(
Sounds like GW went with one of the worst parts of the new Necromunda ruleset - where a swift but fragile weapons master (without additional skills) always looses against a hard hitting brute...
Small seems intentional. They way they pitched it (and I'm not up to date on the videos, so apologies if I'm talking mince as a result) is so we get straight into the face smashing.
I'm intrigued as to how lighter warbands compensate for the apparent lack of manouvering time?
A simplified combat mechanic can be nice, see Warhammer Underworlds, Kings of War, and Frostgrave.
This one seems to have missed the mark, it just feels a bit underdeveloped, however that could be because we aren't seeing the full picture yet. There may be missing rules we haven't been shown.
From a rules point of view I am not that impressed, some nice things, 2 activations per model, alternative activations, and 4 cards to determine the mission, set up, deployment, and twist.
So I had a read through the pictures of the rules someone posted on Imgur. I think I like everything enough that I'm going to preorder the core set.
Some things of note:.
While the pictures don't show the faction lists for non chaos the tiny Stormcast section only shows the vanguard guys. So it's possible that image is legit. Still too early but I hope it's not crossbows and gryphhounds only for Stormcast
Alternating activation model by model. Yep. In a GW game.
You can use the doubles triples quads abilities before either of your 2 actions. There are also universal ones including having a model not close to the enemy rest and remove some damage.
The increased wounds and attacks along with crits makes me think the simplified strength vs toughness system is going to be fine. That it won't feel shallow or too simple. Combined with the way abilities work I think you're going to be able to do some cool stuff.
Battleplans generator cards assume core set terrain but you can substitute.
Jumping, climbing and not being slowed by terrain less than 1" tall makes me think the faster warbands are going to really rocket around. Falling and jumping down rules with damage being 50/50 (4+ Crit on 6) on drops over 3" makes me think that the game will really use all those platforms in the core Terran.
Missions assume you'll different your warband into 3 groups. Dagger, shield and hammer.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Small seems intentional. They way they pitched it (and I'm not up to date on the videos, so apologies if I'm talking mince as a result) is so we get straight into the face smashing.
I'm intrigued as to how lighter warbands compensate for the apparent lack of manouvering time?
Yeah, me too, after all some are described as hit-and-run and stab-slink-back-and-cackle-while-the-poison-kicks-in. Maybe they'll get some "take less/no damage after disengaging" abilities or something? Though the Iron Legionaries have no ability, so even then that wouldn't work for regular Corvus Cabal fodder. I still think some reaction cards or Blood Rage-like system to add to combat would be nice.
I'm reaaaaally looking forward to seeing the Scions. Somewhat amused that the actual gladiator warband silhouette looks like a regular WHFB marauder and not as pompous as the Splintered Fang crew.
I also glanced at the rule leak and I'm pretty happy with them. The rules have in my opinion a good balance of crunch and and simplicity. I don't want something as simple as A Song of Blades and Heroes or with a plethora of minute situational rules like Infinity.
Things I like:
The way abilities work. It's neat that there is a balance between them and initiative and I appreciate they are all unique to each warband.
There is a disengage action. I wasn't able to see the rules specifically, but one of my big qualms about GW games is not being able to leave melee.
The small board size and how missions are determined. I love that there won't be ten turns of positioning or the rangeds Teams turtling. The game seems like it gets going very quickly.
The campaign system looks pretty interesting and definitely like an upgrade over Kill Team (not so much in specialist improvement- but there is territory to hold and varieties of special missions to be played....I haven't seen the specifics of those yet. Some things I did notice were characters could get lesser or major artifacts that have various abilities and as they get more experienced they can gain more favor of the gods, which allows them access to a number of rerolls each game. The leader and a favored warrior can get special traits also.
I love the simplified action roll. No more of the rolling to hit, wound, and armor save. The simplified roll makes it look like combat will flow much smoother.
Things I did not like so far:
There doesn't seem to be a lot in the way of customization for your less important warband members.
The injury table is pretty lackluster.
Overall looks like a solid skirmish game and that it will fill exactly the niche I want it for.
Seems a bit odd that a game about small groups of warriors using rather different fighting styles has what (at present at least) appears to be an overly simplistic combat system, but an innovative system for determining initiative/special abilities. As a game, it may be interesting enough, but the extensive mechanics are not focussed on the most cinematic parts of the conflict unfolding before your eyes.
Requiring many dice rolls is not typically regarded as an advantage it seems, but it's one of my favourite things about e.g. Mordheim. Your charging terrified peasant clumsily swings at the enemy vampire. He appears to hit him! But no, the vampire ends up parrying the blow carelessly. The vampire now turns around to slay your captain before he gets to strike. The fiend's slender blade first strikes his chest, but he manages to turn it into a glancing blow by stepping out of the way, but the evil creature is not yet done, and a second savage cut goes straight for his neck, with enough force to kill him. And he finds a weak point in the armour, oh dear! The captain is not quite dead yet, but lies helplessly on the ground. Here's hoping the peasant can hold on for just a bit next turn, giving the captain time to recover...
A long series of alternating dice rolls (to hit, to wound, re-rolls, parry, step aside, helmet saves, crit tables, injury rolls) helps such a sequence come alive, to me at least. Not recommended for large-scale games, but perfect for something along these lines. In my opinion the much better place to insert interesting mechanics, like Confrontation/En Garde or whatever have for dice allocation in attack and defence.
Leaked non-chaos units seem right, Sea aelves have Eel Rider. And Vanguard Stormcast.
Also judging by the untamed beast roster card look like they got even worse than Iron Golem as their "option" (2-handed weapons for the 2 dudes) are just cosmetic.
And that Cat/Goat hyrbrid of Untamed Beast move 8 while also tough and hit like a truck.
Thanks for the link. That rule leak gives the full picture. Campaign mode is as disappointing as I thought it would be - merely a thumbs up from Kill Team. It's very basic again, you can add as many fighters as you want to your roster, death barely matters at all and experience points...there are no experience points. They introduce a small Mordheim-inspired piece in the artifact search phase after the game. I don't see this game meant to be lasting the same, honestly - the system has barely any personnality to it.
Coenus Scaldingus wrote: Seems a bit odd that a game about small groups of warriors using rather different fighting styles has what (at present at least) appears to be an overly simplistic combat system, but an innovative system for determining initiative/special abilities. As a game, it may be interesting enough, but the extensive mechanics are not focussed on the most cinematic parts of the conflict unfolding before your eyes.
Requiring many dice rolls is not typically regarded as an advantage it seems, but it's one of my favourite things about e.g. Mordheim. Your charging terrified peasant clumsily swings at the enemy vampire. He appears to hit him! But no, the vampire ends up parrying the blow carelessly. The vampire now turns around to slay your captain before he gets to strike. The fiend's slender blade first strikes his chest, but he manages to turn it into a glancing blow by stepping out of the way, but the evil creature is not yet done, and a second savage cut goes straight for his neck, with enough force to kill him. And he finds a weak point in the armour, oh dear! The captain is not quite dead yet, but lies helplessly on the ground. Here's hoping the peasant can hold on for just a bit next turn, giving the captain time to recover...
A long series of alternating dice rolls (to hit, to wound, re-rolls, parry, step aside, helmet saves, crit tables, injury rolls) helps such a sequence come alive, to me at least. Not recommended for large-scale games, but perfect for something along these lines. In my opinion the much better place to insert interesting mechanics, like Confrontation/En Garde or whatever have for dice allocation in attack and defence.
Not necessarily more rolls, but anything that makes combat more interactive is good for skirmish systems, IMO.
Now, what Mordheim bands would be good fits for proxying the Warcry stuff so far They'd fit right in with CMON's HATE game, down to the red on the boxes. I haven't played it yet, though.
I like the rules quite a lot, dig the hell out of the Iron Golems and could use more home board terrain. Downside is I'm feeling pretty strapped for cash right now - summer travels + buying triple Lords of Change because I was spooked by the price increase for them - and also pretty stretched thin with too many games. I continue to invest time and energy into Kill Team, and War Cry being so similar is actually a bad thing, as I don't particularly need another identically-sized skirmish game.
That said, that starter is a good deal and, coming from KT's release, I know every box GW puts out for WC won't last long past release. I feel like I have to preorder the WC starter this weekend if I ever want it, which both pressures me to do it while also heavily turning me off from getting into the game. Now isn't a great time for me to start playing WC ... but knowing Dub's splash release idiocy I basically have to decide immediately
(Current plan is to try to sell some things to make cash + space to put the WC box on the shelf ...)
You can't get a 1 in 12 odds on 1d6 but you can on 2d6
Automatically Appended Next Post: As for that image, it's just something people were sharing on a mobile chat app. We'll find out the actual contents of those cards when a reliable source posts them. The image could turn out to be correct but maybe not
I am actually urprised that Squig hoppers (and Akhelian Guard) are listed as one of the kits available for Warcry considering those are technically cavalry.
Well maybe not Squig Hoppers considering those are just squigs with add on goblin on top.
As for that image, it's just something people were sharing on a mobile chat app. We'll find out the actual contents of those cards when a reliable source posts them. The image could turn out to be correct but maybe not
There's literally pictures in the Imgur of those items in the WarCry book fighting against Iron Golems/Untamed Beasts...unless since it was just randomly shared those aren't "reliable sources" either?
I like the core rules, they are streamlined in a good way, but I fear there might not be enough meat on the bones to give a good play experience, neither in battles (not enough fighter variety, special moves, etc.) nor in the campaign phase (very limited scope for progression). It's not as bad as I feared and should play fine for a little while but it might not hold players' interest for very long. And it's hard to get invested in your warband when the only difference between your Iron Golems and your mate's Iron Golems are the names and fluff you got on the random personality generator.
IMO warbands should've been based around a champion trying to catch Archaons eye and his/her followers. I also want to be able to add weirder stuff like the old path to glory system as the warbands all look a little uniform and bland at the moment. Progression looks a little weak too. I want skills and mutations. Things I can model. Maybe these things will come in future "expansions".
JSG wrote: IMO warbands should've been based around a champion trying to catch Archaons eye and his/her followers. I also want to be able to add weirder stuff like the old path to glory system as the warbands all look a little uniform and bland at the moment. Progression looks a little weak too. I want skills and mutations. Things I can model. Maybe these things will come in future "expansions".
Aren't warbands that? At least some of them? The Spire Tyrants page posted recently spends a lot of time talking about hierarchy and the warband's chief. The Scions of the Flame page is more about the cult and the worthy. Seems to me like there's enough diversity in the methods and beliefs of the various warbands to cover any taste.
Since the game seems to be structured along the same lines as Necromunda, you'll have exactly one leader who is good enough to stand out from his followers. So while I haven't read the rules yet, at least at first glance it looks like the rules portray warbands in that way as well.
How exactly would you like the champion plus followers feel to be implemented?
As for the rest? Yeah, well, modern GW rules have little substance. Shame, but what can you do?
JSG wrote: IMO warbands should've been based around a champion trying to catch Archaons eye and his/her followers. I also want to be able to add weirder stuff like the old path to glory system as the warbands all look a little uniform and bland at the moment. Progression looks a little weak too. I want skills and mutations. Things I can model. Maybe these things will come in future "expansions".
l
There is quite an amount of customisation possible in the base game. With a bit of imagination these could be made into modelling opportunities. A single fighter could end up with 3 destiny levels, a lesser artefact, an artefact of power and a command trait by the end of a campaign. Most of the lesser artefacts are described as pouches, vials or items of jewellery. These could easily me modelled or painted on. We have not seen artefacts of power yet but these may well be new weapons, or pieces of armour that can be added with conversions if that is your thing.
Personally I am pretty happy with the rules so far . There are still pieces of the puzzle to be discovered, like artefacts of power, command traits, territories, the way the NPCs work, and the overarching narratives of each campaign.
I also think we have seen previews of the most straight forward of the warbands. Some of the abilities of the other warbands that the video hints at sound like they could change the game a lot.
Going back a *long* way, the old hardback Realm Of Chaos books had options for generating random chaos warbands and adding to them as you won battles and gained renown. It was very granular, you could gain, say, a single Chaos Warrior, or a couple of beastmen or thugs / marauders, or a troll, or a minotaur, or whatever. That may be what JSG is talking about. If there was something similar between then and now, then I missed it...
It would be hard to achieve that in Warcry though, without pretty much abandoning the new theme of the warbands from the different realms. Unless they made a hell of a lot more new models.
JSG wrote: IMO warbands should've been based around a champion trying to catch Archaons eye and his/her followers. I also want to be able to add weirder stuff like the old path to glory system as the warbands all look a little uniform and bland at the moment. Progression looks a little weak too. I want skills and mutations. Things I can model. Maybe these things will come in future "expansions".
Aren't warbands that? At least some of them? The Spire Tyrants page posted recently spends a lot of time talking about hierarchy and the warband's chief. The Scions of the Flame page is more about the cult and the worthy. Seems to me like there's enough diversity in the methods and beliefs of the various warbands to cover any taste.
Since the game seems to be structured along the same lines as Necromunda, you'll have exactly one leader who is good enough to stand out from his followers. So while I haven't read the rules yet, at least at first glance it looks like the rules portray warbands in that way as well.
How exactly would you like the champion plus followers feel to be implemented?
As for the rest? Yeah, well, modern GW rules have little substance. Shame, but what can you do?
I meant diversity within warbands not between them. The iron golems are closet to what I mean in that they have an ogor a duardin and a musician guy. Untamed beasts have the beastmaster and hound thing. Regarding the champions I'd like centrepieces for the warbands. I like the beasts guy but the rest seem too similar to the rank and file or like the cypher lords leader, just underwhelming. Ideally I'd have liked this to be more like path to glory with your leader able to pick up chaos armour or a daemon weapon, everyone gaining skills and mutations. A guy with a healing potion isn't really going to cut it for me. I get the feeling that they have a thing for balanced, tournament type play and don't want to have these sorts of messy mechanics.
*EDIT* I'm rambling. Crispy78 pretty much nailed it. What I liked about that is the visual diversity of the warband and the implicit narrative that gives.
I really have no idea how much customisation there is, but one thing I like that apparently the gear is fixed. I really hate miniature campaign systems where you change the gear. I want my models to be WYSIWYS, but at the same time I'm not gonna alter already completed models mid-campaign or build seven thousand alternate models to represent a single fighter.
Wow, the campaign system looks phenomenal. The worst part of playing a giant multiplayer campaign is always the players themselves. Being able to track your warband's own campaign really lets players who want to play often, really enjoy the game and system, and bypass the people who "join" a campaign but never play, or only play a handful of times.
judgedoug wrote: Wow, the campaign system looks phenomenal. The worst part of playing a giant multiplayer campaign is always the players themselves. Being able to track your warband's own campaign really lets players who want to play often, really enjoy the game and system, and bypass the people who "join" a campaign but never play, or only play a handful of times.
Aye its a very practical idea, esp once clubs are outside of schools/uni where people don't have an enforced reason to hang around every week. So if someone goes on holiday and then the person organising the game leaves because of work and another gets a child etc... all those practical normal things that can randomly get in the way - now you can keep playing your own personal campaign and not have to worry about them. It's the kind of thing I hope takes off and if it does well might be added to games like Necromunda.
judgedoug wrote: Wow, the campaign system looks phenomenal. The worst part of playing a giant multiplayer campaign is always the players themselves. Being able to track your warband's own campaign really lets players who want to play often, really enjoy the game and system, and bypass the people who "join" a campaign but never play, or only play a handful of times.
Aye its a very practical idea, esp once clubs are outside of schools/uni where people don't have an enforced reason to hang around every week. So if someone goes on holiday and then the person organising the game leaves because of work and another gets a child etc... all those practical normal things that can randomly get in the way - now you can keep playing your own personal campaign and not have to worry about them. It's the kind of thing I hope takes off and if it does well might be added to games like Necromunda.
It's basically the system that Mordheim had - you played your own games for your own team - but with Warcry there is a definite end to your warband, unlike in Mordheim where it was relatively easy to have an unstoppable warband after a dozen games.
At work and can’t watch. What’s the word on the Splintered Fang?
They want to poison and paralyse the enemy. So locking down the enemy so they can isolate warriors to gang up on; using poison to weaken and trickle out life etc...
Welp, this campaign system is pretty damn solid. Might be the best system I've seen.
Takes the best parts of Mordheim, adds a specific endpoint, and incorporates the freedom to play a campaign at your own pace. Frequent players can cycle through multiple warbands while those who cannot commit can still see progress from their games. There's a nice chance of model death, a definite chance of getting cool upgrades, and definite "story" moments for your warbands that makes you want to play the next game. I particularly like the reward that an opposing warband gets when a warband must play a convergence battle, along with a good amount of 'blank' battle marks on the campaign tracker, always providing a good reason for someone to play their next game. It seems like there is little to no downtime or wasted games.
A lot of actual players will be enjoying this. I can see how forumhammer players would not be too keen as there's not a lot of fat on the campaign bones - it is mostly lean meat. However, with dozens of campaigns from various systems under my belt, this looks like a diplomatic compromise between the various styles without reducing the overall enjoyment each player would get. Of course, those groups that prefer map-based campaigns may be disappointed, but I've found that those that actually play, and _actually_ complete, map-based campaigns are very, very rare - perhaps the largest intention-to-completion ratio out of all campaigns that fail. Interestingly, with this campaign system, the campaign can never fail as long as there's literally one other player somewhere in the world for you to play against so that you can complete your own warband's personal campaign.
It's a remarkable success for GW to sell this idea of a personal campaign like it's some radical change when in effect it's exactly the same as any other campaign without a game master. You track your own advancement? Revolutionary!
JSG wrote: IMO warbands should've been based around a champion trying to catch Archaons eye and his/her followers. I also want to be able to add weirder stuff like the old path to glory system as the warbands all look a little uniform and bland at the moment. Progression looks a little weak too. I want skills and mutations. Things I can model. Maybe these things will come in future "expansions".
Aren't warbands that? At least some of them? The Spire Tyrants page posted recently spends a lot of time talking about hierarchy and the warband's chief. The Scions of the Flame page is more about the cult and the worthy. Seems to me like there's enough diversity in the methods and beliefs of the various warbands to cover any taste.
Since the game seems to be structured along the same lines as Necromunda, you'll have exactly one leader who is good enough to stand out from his followers. So while I haven't read the rules yet, at least at first glance it looks like the rules portray warbands in that way as well.
How exactly would you like the champion plus followers feel to be implemented?
As for the rest? Yeah, well, modern GW rules have little substance. Shame, but what can you do?
I meant diversity within warbands not between them. The iron golems are closet to what I mean in that they have an ogor a duardin and a musician guy. Untamed beasts have the beastmaster and hound thing. Regarding the champions I'd like centrepieces for the warbands. I like the beasts guy but the rest seem too similar to the rank and file or like the cypher lords leader, just underwhelming. Ideally I'd have liked this to be more like path to glory with your leader able to pick up chaos armour or a daemon weapon, everyone gaining skills and mutations. A guy with a healing potion isn't really going to cut it for me. I get the feeling that they have a thing for balanced, tournament type play and don't want to have these sorts of messy mechanics.
*EDIT* I'm rambling. Crispy78 pretty much nailed it. What I liked about that is the visual diversity of the warband and the implicit narrative that gives.
Ah, makes sense. I mean, maybe that will be possible with the greater artifacts that we haven't seen yet and you actually have to earn your leader's exceptional appearance. That wouldn't be the worst thing ever. But who knows. I can certainly not disagree since I have a Chaos Lord with Chaos armor and all the trimmings that I wouldn't think twice about using as the leader of the Untamed Beasts.
It's more than 1/2 the Sigmarite Mausoleum it has the 6 buildings but lacks a second gate sprue and a building base sprue but gets cards and the playmat so probably about equal for the same price.
My problem with Mausoleum set is the lack platforms. Few tombs and spiky fences don't make good playground in skirmish game where being able to jump from 2 stories high to slash opponents is possible.
I'm really impressed that GW is even putting terrain setup designs in the card packs! Terrain setup is a skill in itself so haivng some fully pre-designed setups from the boxed set is fantastic for getting some solid fun boards established with the core gear. From there people can certainly add more and build off what they learn and see works with the pre-designed terrain
Heck who knows it might even encourage people to talk and share more about howthey setup terrain
I hope the rules card can be gotten separate some how, I got this terrain set back when it was repacked for Sigmar so honestly dont need another 2 sets of a graveyard. That mat looks cool though
) as games pass on, and this 
