From Warseer, from the mouth..well... alright, keyboard then, of the ever reliable Mr. Hastings [ who also now runs DP Gaming an online webstore you should all support [/cheap plug]

IIRC more DE (Talos & Cronos plastic kit, plastic Venom, plastic Voidraven & other aircraft kit, plastic Scourges, plus quite a few metal kits )are due out before GK, so later than that (Edit: Meaning after March, so I assume April).

..so, early 2nd quarter 2011 it seems then. Which is good news.

Scourges huh?

...what a releif, I was thinking they were going to have to be converted.

I assume ..well.. hope anyway... that this kit will go some way towards providing weapon options for Trueborn and the like -- we should get a decent amount of shard carbines at least anyway.

Sounds great except if true this confirms no plastic wracks

kenshin620 wrote:Sounds great except if true this confirms no plastic wracks

Or grotesques

Oh, how I wish the fighter and bomber were coming out earlier.

I'm really not very good at scratch-building.

reds8n wrote: I assume ..well.. hope anyway... that this kit will go some way towards providing weapon options for Trueborn and the like -- we should get a decent amount of shard carbines at least anyway.

I am incapable of waiting. I will be converting my shard carbines.

Didn't Jes mention Haemonculus and their creations are being made and release for mid next year in those interviews they did?

I am going to have to start collecting DE, already impulse bought some kabalites...

Mewiththeface wrote:Didn't Jes mention Haemonculus and their creations are being made and release for mid next year in those interviews they did?

Well if they are part of the 2nd wave then besides the Engines, they'll be metal. No real reason on separating the release to a Wave 2 and a Wave 2.1

That would suck... wracks and grotesques sound perfect for plastic...

MajorTom11 wrote:That would suck... wracks and grotesques sound perfect for plastic...

Seriously? How so? They sound really complex and non-standard. How is that good for plastic?

Wraithguard = Good for plastic

Hive Tyrant - good for plastic

IG Storm Troopers = Good for plastic

Wracks and Grotesques? hmm...

Yarr.

According to White Dwarf Interviews, Jes has stated the next batch are Haemonculi related, so one would also assume an actual Haemonculi metal or some such. Ditto Wracks and Grotesques. Ah well, just need to wait and see.

Scottywan82 wrote:

MajorTom11 wrote:That would suck... wracks and grotesques sound perfect for plastic...

Seriously? How so? They sound really complex and non-standard. How is that good for plastic?

Wraithguard = Good for plastic

Hive Tyrant - good for plastic

IG Storm Troopers = Good for plastic

Wracks and Grotesques? hmm...

From a purely selfish perspective, complex and non-standard , I would rather they were plastic so I don't have to spend hours pinning, filing and supergluing my fingers in frustration trying to get the bloody things to stick.

Scottywan82 wrote:

MajorTom11 wrote:That would suck... wracks and grotesques sound perfect for plastic...

Seriously? How so? They sound really complex and non-standard. How is that good for plastic?

Wraithguard = Good for plastic

Hive Tyrant - good for plastic

IG Storm Troopers = Good for plastic

Wracks and Grotesques? hmm...

Yeah, Try building Urien. 7 small limbs.

Haemonculis and wracks and such sound great for plastic because they are different parts of different things Which means there should be more than 1 way to build a model. Make them very convertible.

Yeah, Urien was a pain to assemble. Don't really want to even play with him as I know some of the little arms will come off. Going by how the art for Grots and Wracks is, with the wild bone structures coming off their back, I pray they are Plastic!

Complex and non-standard is good for plastic so you can easily mix and match, convert, have ease of assembly, no 2 units have to look exactly alike... That's exactly what plastic is good for IMHO lol

Yes, but my point is that complex and non-standard tend to NOT be made into plastic figures. So why would you expect them to be now?

I want it now!

Aren't Scourges Haemonculli related? (i.e. lots of surgery required) Thus they would fit into a Haemonculli themed release.

Possessed? Chaos mutation sprue? I dunno you are right in general they tend not to, but it's not impossible either. Would be a great addition to the mutation sprue and for LATD and converting all kinds of stuff judging by the concept art.

Anyhood, i'd still love to see em in plastic!

Scottywan82 wrote:Yes, but my point is that complex and non-standard tend to NOT be made into plastic figures. So why would you expect them to be now?

Some miniatures are fairly complex and non-standard, like the chaos spawn and the sanguinary guard. Monstrous creatures, like the Raveners, Ogres, Trolls, and Rat Ogres have been done in plastic, so I'd expect at least Wracks to be plastic.

Yeah, but they also did Minotaurs in plastic and look at how they turned out...

...on the other hand, the metal ones weren't much better...

...and we can trust in Jes.

Ah, So plastic Scourges! I had a feeling there were going to be in metal, oh well.

I guess some characters, Wracks and Grotesques are going to hit the metal. Too bad.

yeah,

plastic Venom, plastic Voidraven & other aircraft kit, plastic Scourges...

WAnt now! damn it!

PAnic...

Flashman wrote:...and we can trust in Jes.

Yes, we can

The Minotaurs were particularly ugly, and IMO don't look half as good as the beastmen miniatures... They were quite the letdown. But then again, look at IoB, or if you want complex multi-part, the Skaven Doomwheel.

ChiliPowderKeg wrote:Ah, So plastic Scourges! I had a feeling there were going to be in metal, oh well.

I guess some characters, Wracks and Grotesques are going to hit the metal. Too bad.

Plastic Scourges actually make quite a bit of sense. Consider that the models are described as wearing "Ghostplate" and wielding Shardcarbines, if the wings aren't directly attached to the main "body" of the Scourge, they'd make fantastic Kabalite Trueborn!

Kanluwen wrote:

ChiliPowderKeg wrote:Ah, So plastic Scourges! I had a feeling there were going to be in metal, oh well.

I guess some characters, Wracks and Grotesques are going to hit the metal. Too bad.

Plastic Scourges actually make quite a bit of sense. Consider that the models are described as wearing "Ghostplate" and wielding Shardcarbines, if the wings aren't directly attached to the main "body" of the Scourge, they'd make fantastic Kabalite Trueborn!

Expect Trueborn don't wear ghostplate only the leader upgrade Dacon can. Now they would still look cool as Trueborn stand in's but would be too early to tell.

Darkwynn wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

ChiliPowderKeg wrote:Ah, So plastic Scourges! I had a feeling there were going to be in metal, oh well.

I guess some characters, Wracks and Grotesques are going to hit the metal. Too bad.

Plastic Scourges actually make quite a bit of sense. Consider that the models are described as wearing "Ghostplate" and wielding Shardcarbines, if the wings aren't directly attached to the main "body" of the Scourge, they'd make fantastic Kabalite Trueborn!

Expect Trueborn don't wear ghostplate only the leader upgrade Dacon can. Now they would still look cool as Trueborn stand in's but would be too early to tell.

But it still doesn't change the fact that the Shardcarbines and more "ornate" armor would make for Trueborn units, eh!

Wracks are a pretty poor choice for plastics since they have no options really. Only real reason is so they wont be super expensive to consumer

Neither do Possessed or Spawn, but they're plastic.

And such good choices those turned out to be .. Bet GW wants to replicate the success of spawn and possessed

I am hoping for plastics. Could be fun to give me a few more "fluffy" bits. My old grot models, now becoming my wrack squad, had to be my favorite unit to make. The local group consisted of every army but Necs. I simply bought their old bits and made a ten man unit. Nothing like seeing the confusion that a space marine torso attached to tau legs using dire avenger and storm trooper arms with the head of a gaunt causes as it rips through your units.

Still wish the Grots had their old "you run away" rule. That would be worth taking to me.

Have to disagree with those saying Grotesques & Wracks aren't perfect for plastic. The images and fluff in the codex show/describe them all as being different and varied. I would LOVE the opportunity to assemble these things as a bunch of individuals, with no 2 alike!

Also, I'd love to see Haemon's as a 3 model plastic kit.

Eric

Kirasu wrote:And such good choices those turned out to be .. Bet GW wants to replicate the success of spawn and possessed

Except that wracks and grotesques are actually worth fielding

Besides, river trolls also got in (unless they're going to radically change them for 8th)

Kirasu wrote:And such good choices those turned out to be .. Bet GW wants to replicate the success of spawn and possessed

Which has all of nothing to do with the claim that models like Wracks/Grostesqes cannot be in plastic because they are 'non-standard'. The fact that Spawn and Possessed have rules that suck is the fault of the people who wrote them, not the way the models were designed.

Two more sources on new DE models, this time in March!

Frgt/10 wrote:interesting
this doesnt quite fit in with what ive heard (although it still might)

there are new dark eldar models coming in march
this isnt the 2nd wave however

edit: i'd assume hastings is aware of these as well

time2die wrote:This is what I've been hearing, too.
Think along animalistic, beastly lines.

That would make an awesome release. I'll be expecting confirmations, pics and such ^^

Looking at the artwork of the Wracks and Grotesques (which is probably a reasonably accurate indication of what the models are going to look like), there is a chance that they'd do a set of sprues that enable you to build either Wracks or Grotesques (much like the Lootas/Burna Boyz set). While Grotesques are larger than Wracks, most of the bulk seems to be in the torso and arms. So they could theoretically provide optional optional upper body parts. And, you'd hope, a Haemonculous with some optional bits (again, much like the Mek in the Lootas/Burna Boyz set). I suspect this is all a bit much to expect - if the artwork is definitive, then Wracks and Grotesques aren't going to have any compatible parts. I reckon it's more likely we'll see one or the other of these units in metal, and I think metal Wracks are more likely than plastic ones (they would be easy to sculpt) while the Grotesques are more likely to be plastic because GW clearly prefers to do larger models in plastic (and models that are substantially bigger than a human are much more practical in plastic). Either way, it would make a lot of sense to include a Haemonculous with the plastic models.

To be fair though, those Grots and Wracks could be made from Chaos Demon sprues easily enough, and looking at the artwork, I don't see too much difference between what the DE have and what could be found in the realm of chaos.....

Would be great to get some specific models for the various units though.

Erasoketa wrote:That would make an awesome release. I'll be expecting confirmations, pics and such ^^

Hehe, I think we'll be waiting a while for pics. I heard from a friend who works for GW that the guy who leaked that stormraven pic was fired two hours later.

It should be clear by now that Wracks and Grotesques won't be plastic but metal. Scourges deserve much more to be plastic as they have loads of weapon options not possible with metal models, Wracks and Grotesques do not (only one in 5 or 10 may take a different weapon plus the boss).

Kroothawk wrote:It should be clear by now that Wracks and Grotesques won't be plastic but metal. Scourges deserve much more to be plastic as they have loads of weapon options not possible with metal models, Wracks and Grotesques do not (only one in 5 or 10 may take a different weapon plus the boss).

It should also be clear that what we want, and why, is not always going to be what GW is doing.
; )

Wracks & gotesques, I wager, will see more use than scourges. IMO, there are far more opportunities for them. So, creating them in large plastic units seems more cost effective (for me, at least). Plus, with their varied appearances, a la Spawn, plastic sprues are more sensible.
Even with weapon options, I think scourges will be used less often by gamers.


I should clarify, however. I think that, profits aside, all models are better off if in plastic.

Also, if Wracks and Grotesques come out in metal, I really will convert all of mine, just to have the plastic models.
Same for Haemons.

Eric

Ya, it is clear Krootster, just wishlisting. Back in the day I didn't do much sculpting and converting, but now I scarcely consider doing a mini without heavy personalization. Metals just make it so much tougher, and since i like the look of the concept art, I just wish I could populate my bitz box with such awesome work.

Still, to me it seems like if you are going to have more than 5 models of a type in an army, or even if it's just possible, they should go plastic if at all economically viable.

Scourges NEED to be plastic; too many options, plus opportunities to get all those special weapons out there for Trueborn, etc. Don't need any more Venoms, likely, but will look at those Razorwing/Voidraven kits and likely pick up a few.

Wracks and Grotesques... I can see why they don't need plastics and it really boils down to options. They have very few: Liquifier Gun and "sergeant." Now, if the Wrack kit was easily convertable into Haemonculi, that would be something, but I haven't needed it. I've put together 20+ wracks and 6 haemonculi out of various parts of wyches, warriors, crypt ghouls, flagellants, and chaos marauders. They do the job nicely, so I don't really have a concern about whether or not they make a plastic or metal kit aside from maybe bolstering the ranks with a few "official" models if they look cool.

Grotesques, I have no interest in fielding, so I'll separate myself from that conversation except to say that ogres, rat ogres and the like could EASILY be converted.

More details from Warseer:

Frgt/10 wrote:only metal models in march
and not just beastly ones; one of them is quite the opposite in fact
no venom in march, they're saving it for the 2nd wave

75hastings69 wrote:these would be some of the metal kits, Clawed Fiend, Chimera etc. I'm really hoping for Sslithe minis butr haven't heard anything about them
March? Really? seems odd with that month being aimed at the relaunch of WFB O&G and as I know the releases for those I can't see them letting new DE models play secong fiddle, I think you'll find April will be DE and more than just a few metal minis

Skarboy wrote:Scourges NEED to be plastic; too many options, plus opportunities to get all those special weapons out there for Trueborn, etc. Don't need any more Venoms, likely, but will look at those Razorwing/Voidraven kits and likely pick up a few.

Wracks and Grotesques... I can see why they don't need plastics and it really boils down to options. They have very few: Liquifier Gun and "sergeant." Now, if the Wrack kit was easily convertable into Haemonculi, that would be something, but I haven't needed it. I've put together 20+ wracks and 6 haemonculi out of various parts of wyches, warriors, crypt ghouls, flagellants, and chaos marauders. They do the job nicely, so I don't really have a concern about whether or not they make a plastic or metal kit aside from maybe bolstering the ranks with a few "official" models if they look cool.

Grotesques, I have no interest in fielding, so I'll separate myself from that conversation except to say that ogres, rat ogres and the like could EASILY be converted.

Re: Scourges-
That's the thing, though. You're talking about getting bits for other units. While I agree they're needed, they aren't needed for scourges (IMO). As they'll (again, IMO) be little used, the special weapon models would be sold separately in metal.

Re: Grotesques-
Agreed. I'm converting Chaos Spawn.

Re: Making your own Wracks & Haemons-
Don't tease me, man! Where's your WIP thread? : )

Eric

Re: Scourges-
That's the thing, though. You're talking about getting bits for other units. While I agree they're needed, they aren't needed for scourges (IMO). As they'll (again, IMO) be little used, the special weapon models would be sold separately in metal.

Actually, if you look at the Scourge entry...they have far more options than the Trueborn do. The Trueborn would just be an "alternative" way to make them.

(Not trying to pick a fight with you, just sayin'. The only options that Trueborn can field that Scourges can't is a Phantasm Grenade Launcher and Splinter Pistols/CCWs.)

From listening to 40k radio lately, it seems like the bit really needed for DE that is missing atm for current choices is haywire grenades to model onto minis in order to clearly identify which guys are holding them in a squad. Hopefully the scourges will have a few on the sprue.

I agree that, regardless of our preferences, plastic scourges seem more likely than plastic Wracks. It comes down to Scourges having lots of different options available to the unit, and Wracks having almost none.

MagickalMemories wrote:Re: Scourges-
That's the thing, though. You're talking about getting bits for other units. While I agree they're needed, they aren't needed for scourges (IMO). As they'll (again, IMO) be little used, the special weapon models would be sold separately in metal.

Re: Grotesques-
Agreed. I'm converting Chaos Spawn.

Re: Making your own Wracks & Haemons-
Don't tease me, man! Where's your WIP thread? : )

Eric

Another reason for plastic scourges: wings. Do you want to make a unit with thin bird wings out of metal or have them in plastic, where they will stay together better and be much more easily repaired and transported? My point about the weapons is that it kills two birds in one stone: you might get people to buy Scourge kits just for the weapon options, whereas the Wracks/Grotesques won't. The other part about the weapons, Scourges get some unique guns (heat lances for infantry, haywire blasters) that deserve representation and wouldn't be that well served through a metal model. Anyway, just my two cents.

I didn't do any WIP photos, etc. of the Wracks and Haemonculi. I could post some photos of them (and six Venoms) with a brief how-to, but am at work. I'll see if I can post something later in the P&M section on both.

Well, if nothing else, I'd love to see pics of the completed works, as I am converting my own Wracks from Flagellents, Ghouls and Tzeench Horrors.
If Wracks truly do come out in metal, I don't foresee buying any.

I understand, re: scourge wings. You have a point there. I also understand about the weapon options.

My thoughts are based on this, though. Typically, GW makes models in plastic if they expect it to sell boat loads. Models that will not sell as many (characters, etc) tend to be made in metal.

Using that thought process, and keeping each unit to itself, I think Wracks would outsell Scourges. Again, that's barring those who buy scourges to use the weapon options for other units. Also, if you read the descriptions of Wracks, it leaves a lot of room open for each one to look different. A plastic kit would be perfect for that.

That's my thought process... Wracks will be used by the handfull in Haemon armies, so would be better suited to plastic (again, that's just IMO), so as to be cheaper in bulk.

My though is that, if Scourges were metal, they could be done like the old metal GK models. Sell a box of 5, with 1 "sgt" and 1 'special' weapon. Then, sell other special weapon models separately.

Since, I suspect, actual scourge units won't see a huge amount of use, small runs of metal models would be less expensive, considering the well publicized cost differences for creating metal vs. plastic models.

Like with Orks, GW could just turn around and sell plastic sprues of extra special weapons options.

Eric

MagickalMemories wrote:Well, if nothing else, I'd love to see pics of the completed works, as I am converting my own Wracks from Flagellents, Ghouls and Tzeench Horrors.
If Wracks truly do come out in metal, I don't foresee buying any.

I understand, re: scourge wings. You have a point there. I also understand about the weapon options.

My thoughts are based on this, though. Typically, GW makes models in plastic if they expect it to sell boat loads. Models that will not sell as many (characters, etc) tend to be made in metal.

Using that thought process, and keeping each unit to itself, I think Wracks would outsell Scourges. Again, that's barring those who buy scourges to use the weapon options for other units. Also, if you read the descriptions of Wracks, it leaves a lot of room open for each one to look different. A plastic kit would be perfect for that.

I'm not so sure about this. Wracks are going to be fairly standardized--simply because they're always a Dark Eldar who's volunteered for the surgery. But also, another problem is simply that if they did it in plastic they might end up selling a plastic kit the same size as the metal box, but at almost triple the price because of the options included.

The Grotesques, in my opinion, would be a better option for a plastic kit for Haemonculi, especially if it were done like the Rat Ogres and included parts for making a Haemonculi or two.

That's my thought process... Wracks will be used by the handful in Haemon armies, so would be better suited to plastic (again, that's just IMO), so as to be cheaper in bulk.

But there's the rub, isn't it? Wracks will be used by the handful in Haemonculi armies. They're not something that you're too likely to see in a themed Wych Cult or Kabalite army.

My thought is that, if Scourges were metal, they could be done like the old metal GK models. Sell a box of 5, with 1 "sgt" and 1 'special' weapon. Then, sell other special weapon models separately.
Since, I suspect, actual scourge units won't see a huge amount of use, small runs of metal models would be less expensive, considering the well publicized cost differences for creating metal vs. plastic models.
Like with Orks, GW could just turn around and sell plastic sprues of extra special weapons options.
Eric

It's not a terrible thought, but at the same time I do think it's mistaken. Plastic kits tend to be done with things that have the potential to be used by every variant permutation you might see in that specific army. Given that Scourges are, according to fluff, basically granted immunity against any hostilities by any Dark Eldar...I'd say you could make a reasonable assumption that they would be acceptable in any "themed" Dark Eldar force.

Plus, depending on how the kit looks it wouldn't just work as Kabalite Trueborn. They could also be used to make Swooping Hawks, thus opening up an even bigger potential market.

grak wrote:

Erasoketa wrote:That would make an awesome release. I'll be expecting confirmations, pics and such ^^

Hehe, I think we'll be waiting a while for pics. I heard from a friend who works for GW that the guy who leaked that stormraven pic was fired two hours later.

Wow, that was fast. Anyway, I enjoy the "rumour process", it will be cool to know when it happens xD

Kroothawk wrote:It should be clear by now that Wracks and Grotesques won't be plastic but metal. Scourges deserve much more to be plastic as they have loads of weapon options not possible with metal models, Wracks and Grotesques do not (only one in 5 or 10 may take a different weapon plus the boss).

If the amount of new plastic moulds per year is limited for GW, I wouldn't see much trouble having this minis in metal. I would be worried about two details: the prices, and how hard or easy would be the Grotesques to assemble.

BTW, one of the things that had been said previously was that the Haemi stuff would arrive later. So who knows, we might get plastic Wracks and Grotesques later and that metal kits in OP would be just Special Characters blisters and the like...

But there's the rub, isn't it? Wracks will be used by the handful in Haemonculi armies. They're not something that you're too likely to see in a themed Wych Cult or Kabalite army.

Errr....and the 90% of people who run unthemed or tournament lists? I've never seen you chipping in on a DE listbuilding or background thread, it mildly amuses me to note how you're proclaiming what we all will and won't buy.

Ketara wrote:

But there's the rub, isn't it? Wracks will be used by the handful in Haemonculi armies. They're not something that you're too likely to see in a themed Wych Cult or Kabalite army.

Errr....and the 90% of people who run unthemed or tournament lists? I've never seen you chipping in on a DE listbuilding or background thread, it mildly amuses me to note how you're proclaiming what we all will and won't buy.

Uh, actually I've "chipped in" on plenty regarding background.

It, however, doesn't change the fact that Wracks really are exclusively a Haemonculi item and are an Elite choice unless a Haemonculi is taken as HQ.

It also doesn't change the amusing notion that you seem to think that my opinion is a definitive fact.

Kanluwen wrote:

Ketara wrote:

But there's the rub, isn't it? Wracks will be used by the handful in Haemonculi armies. They're not something that you're too likely to see in a themed Wych Cult or Kabalite army.

Errr....and the 90% of people who run unthemed or tournament lists? I've never seen you chipping in on a DE listbuilding or background thread, it mildly amuses me to note how you're proclaiming what we all will and won't buy.

Uh, actually I've "chipped in" on plenty regarding background.

It, however, doesn't change the fact that Wracks really are exclusively a Haemonculi item and are an Elite choice unless a Haemonculi is taken as HQ.

It also doesn't change the amusing notion that you seem to think that my opinion is a definitive fact.

No, its more the way you stated it as fact rather than opinion. I oft think you'd have less squabbles here on Dakka if you'd learn to distinguish between the two.

The fact remains that the Haemonculus and Wracks are excellent options that many people will choose to run. Possessing a single Haemonculus and a single squad of wracks in your army does not make it a Haemonculus themed force. It just means it probably falls into that other 90% of people I mentioned who choose to run bits and pieces of everything to make an effective list, as opposed to theming deliberately one way or another. Thus meaning that they will be used by more than the 'handful in Haemonculi armies'.

Being an elite choice normally, is usually enough to make it a metal unit, see Eldar.
On the positive side: Metal models are usually more complex and awesome than plastic sculpts. Let's hope they get 5 different models, not just 3 like with Mandrakes.

Kanluwen wrote:

MagickalMemories wrote:Well, if nothing else, I'd love to see pics of the completed works, as I am converting my own Wracks from Flagellents, Ghouls and Tzeench Horrors.
If Wracks truly do come out in metal, I don't foresee buying any.

I understand, re: scourge wings. You have a point there. I also understand about the weapon options.

My thoughts are based on this, though. Typically, GW makes models in plastic if they expect it to sell boat loads. Models that will not sell as many (characters, etc) tend to be made in metal.

Using that thought process, and keeping each unit to itself, I think Wracks would outsell Scourges. Again, that's barring those who buy scourges to use the weapon options for other units. Also, if you read the descriptions of Wracks, it leaves a lot of room open for each one to look different. A plastic kit would be perfect for that.

I'm not so sure about this. Wracks are going to be fairly standardized--simply because they're always a Dark Eldar who's volunteered for the surgery. But also, another problem is simply that if they did it in plastic they might end up selling a plastic kit the same size as the metal box, but at almost triple the price because of the options included.

The Grotesques, in my opinion, would be a better option for a plastic kit for Haemonculi, especially if it were done like the Rat Ogres and included parts for making a Haemonculi or two.

That's my thought process... Wracks will be used by the handful in Haemon armies, so would be better suited to plastic (again, that's just IMO), so as to be cheaper in bulk.

But there's the rub, isn't it? Wracks will be used by the handful in Haemonculi armies. They're not something that you're too likely to see in a themed Wych Cult or Kabalite army.

My thought is that, if Scourges were metal, they could be done like the old metal GK models. Sell a box of 5, with 1 "sgt" and 1 'special' weapon. Then, sell other special weapon models separately.
Since, I suspect, actual scourge units won't see a huge amount of use, small runs of metal models would be less expensive, considering the well publicized cost differences for creating metal vs. plastic models.
Like with Orks, GW could just turn around and sell plastic sprues of extra special weapons options.
Eric

It's not a terrible thought, but at the same time I do think it's mistaken. Plastic kits tend to be done with things that have the potential to be used by every variant permutation you might see in that specific army. Given that Scourges are, according to fluff, basically granted immunity against any hostilities by any Dark Eldar...I'd say you could make a reasonable assumption that they would be acceptable in any "themed" Dark Eldar force.

Plus, depending on how the kit looks it wouldn't just work as Kabalite Trueborn. They could also be used to make Swooping Hawks, thus opening up an even bigger potential market.

You'll notice that I've got "my opinion", "I do think", or "likely" all in that post.

There was nothing stated as definitive fact, outside of the part regarding Scourges and their place in Dark Eldar society or the fact that Wracks are created from Dark Eldar who voluntarily surrender themselves.

So please, read all of a post before commenting. I wouldn't have had to "squabble" with you right now if you'd read the statements thoroughly.

Regarding why scourges should be plastic and wracks should be metal...

Do mini company SERIOUSLY decide the material of a model based on how many 'options' the current set of rules allow?

Does this make business sense?

This seems more like hobbiest logic than reality.

I could understand (but not like) we'll make them metal and charge more because they'll be popular...but we make 'em plastic so people can buy them for bitz or field all the different options for a unit that will be signifgantly less play does not make good business sense.

May I interrupt for some more rumours?

time2die wrote:To be precise, expect to see a brilliant Succubus model, Beastmasters and their beasts in late March, leading into another, larger wave in April.

75hastings69 wrote:more blood angels in february btw

Yes you may, sir! Cannot wait... must have Venom....

Kroothawk wrote:May I interrupt for some more rumours?

time2die wrote:To be precise, expect to see a brilliant Succubus model, Beastmasters and their beasts in late March, leading into another, larger wave in April.

75hastings69 wrote:more blood angels in february btw

Interesting. The Beastmasters are pretty much just Hellions minus the hellglaive, not sure they need their own model, but what the hell. The beasts would be welcome, as no one has yet produced a really good proxy that I've seen (myself included, I just use Chaos Warhounds and Fantasy Batswarms). The succubus is a WTF selection, though. You can make 'em out of a wych kit... seems unnecessary. That being said, if it's a nice model (like Lelith) I'll get it even though I'll probably never use it (like Lelith).

On the topic of wracks versus scourges, in terms of popularity... The point that you need a haemonculus to use them is valid... if you mean troops only. They are still an elite choice (though there are a lot of better choices for your elite slots). I think they would sell decently, and probably in greater number than Scourges overall. Scourges still have to compete with Reavers, Beastmasters, and Hellions, all very good FA choices, while Wracks, especially as a troop option, really offer more potential numbers (as well as transport add-on that the FA choices do not). My opinion on wracks is that they could be served by a Mandrake- or Incubi-like boxset easily enough, with maybe one optional bit sprue for a liquifier gun and the handful of Acothyst options. You really don't need a complex kit to get the job done well. Scourges have more complexity and variants, which would seem to imply a more complex sprue... erego, plastics. Bear in mind, my opinion is heavily slanted towards the "I sure as **** do not want to build metal Scourges" aspect of my hobby endeavors.

Edit:

As a side note, I put a post about my wrack, haemonculi, and Venom conversions: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/336403.page#2273558

I really don't think there is much rhyme or reason as to what models GW decides to make plastic. Look at Hellions. They are plastic(and a fantastic kit too) but are a Fast Attack unit. You have to take a special character to make Troops. Wracks just have to have a basic Haemonculus (which can be taken 3 to an HQ slot) to be a Troops choice, but are rumoured to be metal. So I think it's more just the decision between the sculptor and other GW higher-ups, as to which models are plastic and which are metal.

but either way, based on the latest Dark Eldar models, i'm sure they will be great!

airmang wrote:I really don't think there is much rhyme or reason as to what models GW decides to make plastic.

Really? You think that no actual thought goes into what they make into plastic? No reason sits behind the massive expense that making plastic moulds incurs? Really?

Kroothawk wrote:Being an elite choice normally, is usually enough to make it a metal unit, see Eldar.
On the positive side: Metal models are usually more complex and awesome than plastic sculpts. Let's hope they get 5 different models, not just 3 like with Mandrakes.

yeah,
I think Mandrakes will get more models, in a similar way to the metal LOTD marines got a LOTD wave 2...

Panic...

airmang wrote:I really don't think there is much rhyme or reason as to what models GW decides to make plastic. Look at Hellions.

A unit that uses flier bases. That alone is sufficient reason to only make them in plastic.

While plastic wracks are definitely not going to part of the second wave, I haven't seen any confirmation, nor even a real rumour that they are coming in metal either. They might be left for a (distant) future wave, whether in plastic or metal. Unless I've missed something.

I certainly think it would be a shame to put one of the three main army themes out of contention for the vast majority of people. They should get a plastic box including a haemonculus with all of the options. The haemonculi have the most options out of anything in the codex right?

I could see the Haemonculus being a 2 figure pack, similar to the Empire wizard or General mini's. I dont see GW being that concerned for our wallets by producing a 3 pack. Nor, do I forsee plastic wracks, they will probably (if released) show up like the incubi or mandrakes.

It would be nice if the talos/cronos were a combined kit to make one or the other.

Father Gabe wrote:I could see the Haemonculus being a 2 figure pack, similar to the Empire wizard or General mini's. I dont see GW being that concerned for our wallets by producing a 3 pack. Nor, do I forsee plastic wracks, they will probably (if released) show up like the incubi or mandrakes.

It would be nice if the talos/cronos were a combined kit to make one or the other.

Would LOVE plastic Haemonculi.

Scottywan82 wrote:

Father Gabe wrote:I could see the Haemonculus being a 2 figure pack, similar to the Empire wizard or General mini's. I dont see GW being that concerned for our wallets by producing a 3 pack. Nor, do I forsee plastic wracks, they will probably (if released) show up like the incubi or mandrakes.

It would be nice if the talos/cronos were a combined kit to make one or the other.

Would LOVE plastic Haemonculi.

I'd like to see something similar to the SM Captin/Chapter Master set that maybe allows for 2 Haemy's and an ancient. I highly douby that would ever happen though, I imagine it will just be a a couple of normal individual metal sculpts.

I have seen images Of Cronos/ Talos In Plastic along with haemoncalus and wracks grotestques along with bomber/fighter kit

Adam wrote:I have seen images Of Cronos/ Talos In Plastic along with haemoncalus and wracks grotestques along with bomber/fighter kit

OMG!!! MUZT SEE DEM!!! CAN YOU TAKE PIX?!?!

Adam wrote:I have seen images Of Cronos/ Talos In Plastic along with haemoncalus and wracks grotestques along with bomber/fighter kit

This reminds me of something i saw online, once.
What was it, again...?

Oh, yeah.

"Pics or it didn't happen."

: )

Eric

Panic wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:Being an elite choice normally, is usually enough to make it a metal unit, see Eldar.
On the positive side: Metal models are usually more complex and awesome than plastic sculpts. Let's hope they get 5 different models, not just 3 like with Mandrakes.

yeah,
I think Mandrakes will get more models, in a similar way to the metal LOTD marines got a LOTD wave 2...

Panic...

Unfortunately, model diversity is not the Mandrakes' largest problem. Being an Elite melee unit that gets eaten alive in melee by tactical marines is more problematic.

Wow, well im glad to see they are delivering on their promise to have 90% of the models in the codex available before 2012. Guess that isnt so good for the Grey Knights fanatics or the hopes of the necron players.

I'm glad they're releasing the jetcraft; those were some of my favorite entries in the codex. I've already made a list with a fistfull of them.

And the Chronos will be good to have, too. Surely any DE army will need one of those. The Venoms will also be good to have since HQ can't be mounted on reavers anymore.

Minor rumour by BramGaunt over at Warseer:

Last thing I heard is that we won't get an incoming article about the second wave of DE, because it's due the third week of march, though I'd take that with a pint of salt.

Did the Legion of the Damned get an incoming! article by the way?

Temujin wrote:While plastic wracks are definitely not going to part of the second wave, I haven't seen any confirmation, nor even a real rumour that they are coming in metal either. They might be left for a (distant) future wave, whether in plastic or metal. Unless I've missed something.

I certainly think it would be a shame to put one of the three main army themes out of contention for the vast majority of people. They should get a plastic box including a haemonculus with all of the options. The haemonculi have the most options out of anything in the codex right?

I seem to remember something bout jes wanting to make grot riders so it stands to reason that plastic is the way to go for that. Perhaps in a box kit doing a 1 in 10 can be a rider or something like that. I would love to see the grots in plastic and some haemoncli in the kit perhaps. Also this isnt connected to your thread the scourges seem best in plastic too. and as converts to true born not so much. the fluff has them as very avian in looks to include quills and feathers added to their bodies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Having seen what gw can do with plastics for wfb i hope that grots and wracks get a multipart plastic kit each to themselves. The skaven hellpit critter is awesome and i think with all the 5 man squads of big guys that they have made for the fantasy side could bode well for plastic grots. the wracks seem logical also since with urien you can field up to 60 of the buggers and the still fill your leets with them. i get that the unit has little wargear for it but same with the pink and blue demons and those look really good.

Kroothawk wrote:Minor rumour by BramGaunt over at Warseer:

Last thing I heard is that we won't get an incoming article about the second wave of DE, because it's due the third week of march, though I'd take that with a pint of salt.

I want so badly for this to be true....

BrookM wrote:Did the Legion of the Damned get an incoming! article by the way?

I think so, could be wrong .

Also deldar.

Not that ive gotten if they did.

BrookM wrote:Did the Legion of the Damned get an incoming! article by the way?

I think I remember seeing the pictures in my inbox, but I am not 100% sure.

zombies make some great conversions for the wracks. All you need is some green stuff and some bits from the warriors box and you'll have a good sized unit in no time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TBD wrote:

BrookM wrote:Did the Legion of the Damned get an incoming! article by the way?

I think I remember seeing the pictures in my inbox, but I am not 100% sure.

I believe they got one on 01/05/2010 (MM/DD/YYYY)

For everyone that wants Haemonculi-themed troops now and isn't totally GW-loyal, I'd recommend picking up some Confrontation alchemists of Dirz minis. The basic troopers would make fine Wracks, and the bigger beasties good Grotesques. There were plastics in the line, even prepaints if that floats your boat.

Personally, I hate the idea of Wave I/Wave II. Maybe a marketing major can explain to me why they do this.

It makes no sense when valuable units (such as the heavy support section for DE) has entire models missing and lets 3rd party manufacturers jump in. For example, many 3rd party manufacturers have made a good buck off TWC. I don't get it.

Two more minor rumours by BramGaunt:

I can see them just releasing the miniatures without making a big noise about them - similar to LotR releases. Everyone who plays DE will buy them, regardless of what time they are released. If what I heard is correct, the DE release was that big of a success that they don't 'bother' to put to much promo on them, because they think it will sell anyway, and if the miniatures keep up with what we already have, they are probably right. They kind of promote themselves, don't they? =)

Yeah, they sold well -> make no promotion at all to counter that!

Black Boxes should be out much sooner in the future, same goes for preorder. It fits with GW to give us a wider frame for announcements (we had GK announcement in early january). Therefor, Black Boxes for OnG should be out the first week of febuary. About 10 more day of waiting for solid infos =)

GK Black Box is supposed to be in stores the last week of feb, btw, though this may change. I'd say first week of march is more realistic.

Of course they won't show the Grey Knights befor OnG release is done. Last I heard was that the complete OnG release will be made the first saturday of march, with the second wave Dark Eldar in the third week.

And time2die claims:

March is just the Succubi model and Beastmaster and beast models. All metal.

AgeOfEgos wrote:Personally, I hate the idea of Wave I/Wave II. Maybe a marketing major can explain to me why they do this.

It makes no sense when valuable units (such as the heavy support section for DE) has entire models missing and lets 3rd party manufacturers jump in. For example, many 3rd party manufacturers have made a good buck off TWC. I don't get it.

It has less to do with marketing and more about creating larger periods of stable sales and revenue stream for a particular product line, while simultaneously dealing with the companies relatively limited ability to produce the volume of different kits needed to support the longevity of the product line for 5+ year periods at a time.

Kroothawk wrote:
Yeah, they sold well -> make no promotion at all to counter that!

Which is idiotic, Space Marines sell well and they don't fail to advertise them.

They just fail IN advertising.

aka_mythos wrote:It has less to do with marketing and more about creating larger periods of stable sales and revenue stream for a particular product line, while simultaneously dealing with the companies relatively limited ability to produce the volume of different kits needed to support the longevity of the product line for 5+ year periods at a time.

I agree with what you've said 100%, but the truth is that it should have more to do with marketing.

Remember how the Blood Angel 2nd Wave was announced, or, to be more accurate, wasn't announced? First we got an E-mail telling us to expect something big and to go to the website. Then we go to the website when they said and got... advertisements for existing products and a "Oh yeah, plus more stuff soon!" notice. Wave releases are a fine concept in theory, but like so many the fine concepts GW has had over the years their execution leaves a hell of a lot to be desired.

AgeOfEgos wrote:Personally, I hate the idea of Wave I/Wave II. Maybe a marketing major can explain to me why they do this.

It makes no sense when valuable units (such as the heavy support section for DE) has entire models missing and lets 3rd party manufacturers jump in. For example, many 3rd party manufacturers have made a good buck off TWC. I don't get it.

Apart from the problems H.M.B.C has very accurately pointed out, I quite like the Wave system. It certainly is better than the past model, where whole armies got released in one big chunk that still didn't cover everything in the list, and you knew if what you wanted for your army didn't come out in that big chunk you would be waiting years before you had a shot at it again.

reds8n wrote:From Warseer, from the mouth..well... alright, keyboard then, of the ever reliable Mr. Hastings [ who also now runs DP Gaming an online webstore you should all support [/cheap plug]

IIRC more DE (Talos & Cronos plastic kit, plastic Venom, plastic Voidraven & other aircraft kit, plastic Scourges, plus quite a few metal kits )are due out before GK, so later than that (Edit: Meaning after March, so I assume April).

..so, early 2nd quarter 2011 it seems then. Which is good news.

is that the same mr Hastings AKA grimtuff??

anyways was waiting for this release before i went back to my DE and can truely get my haemoculi cult army finished and dusted down to play with the new dex, guess going to be a lot of scratch building and coverting though if most of the bits are metal, just hope the platic talos is true

Plastic Venom hey? I never thought I'd see the day.

I have enough wracks and Venoms; am much more interested in Voidravens, Razorwings, and Scourges at this point. I don't mind the wait, but certainly it would not kill them to preview more than a couple weeks ahead. Maybe give us a peek into 3 months out?

I'd put good money on Voidraven/Razorwing kit being out before summer - even if the much-rumoured 'summer of flyers' doesn't happen, I can't see WD passing up the chance to do a Blood Angel -vs- Dark Eldar battle report which will (entirely coincidentally of course) feature a Voidwing -vs- Chibihawk dogfight.

I further predict that the BAs will claim a narrow victory after it turns out that chibis win the aerodynamic battle!...

If it's a battle-rep for a newly released toy it'll most likely win.

Thought the Dark Eldar will probably lose, they'll highlight the "wonderful new addition" and how you should buy 3 for regular 40k and 9 for Apocalypse.

Destrado wrote:If it's a battle-rep for a newly released toy it'll most likely win.

Thought the Dark Eldar will probably lose, they'll highlight the "wonderful new addition" and how you should buy 3 for regular 40k and 9 for Apocalypse.

Tyranids didn't nor did skaven.

Curse you for reading White Dwarf and obliterating my un-biased generalization.

I find it hard to believe GW would pit their 2 newest, shiniest" armies against one another. Either way, someone's getting disillusioned, depending on who wins, and they don't want the buyers of their new shiny toys disillusioned (and, therefore, buying less).

Any batrep will be against an older codex, like Orks, SM or CSM, and the opponent will have an underpowered list.

Eric

Actually this months WD pitches BloodAngels against Dark Eldar. ^^ Outcome:

Oh, God.

Well, there you go.


Eric

Chimera_Calvin wrote:I'd put good money on Voidraven/Razorwing kit being out before summer

Is it just a hunch ... or because Jes Goodwin confirmed it?

Actually this months WD pitches BloodAngels against Dark Eldar.

The outcome of that is quite predictable and you don't need to be psychic to get it either, not even a little.

The wave system i like more keeps me on my toes, also makes me feel like they havn't forgoten about past releases.

Does any one know how i can find the painting DE article the new one not the old one. The one that was released with the army?

They can't be released during April, there's a leak in Feb's WD when the devs are talking about the Stormraven of 'other' iconography and a mention of the Grey Knights and April so.

This would be absolutely great.
Plastic tanks and Scourges - I'd give them a try.

Sounds good. I can still pick up the core of my army without waiting at all, so the extra stuff can wait. We need a duke model though.

BrassScorpion wrote:

Actually this months WD pitches BloodAngels against Dark Eldar.

The outcome of that is quite predictable and you don't need to be psychic to get it either, not even a little.

You just need to click the spoiler button.

Cpt. Rusty Hook wrote:Does any one know how i can find the painting DE article the new one not the old one. The one that was released with the army?

You mean this ?

Nothing about a battleforce?

Hm, wrack and grotesques alredy have plastic kits... they are called Ork Boyz/Nobz and Gaunts/Genestealers... seriously, no hard work in it...
At least on my point of view, Haemonculi cabals are a great excuse for kitbashing

And the release of official plastic kits for said units wouldn't prevent you from doing that in any way.

Not to mention that if they made minis of the wracks true to the artwork they would be completely spiffing

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:Hm, wrack and grotesques alredy have plastic kits... they are called Ork Boyz/Nobz and Gaunts/Genestealers... seriously, no hard work in it...
At least on my point of view, Haemonculi cabals are a great excuse for kitbashing

From my point of view that's not going to be good enough. No matter how awesome people think their conversions are, I bet they're going to look like garbage next to the real models. Just because Urien Rakarth got a horrible model, doesn't mean the other Homunculi (and their creations) will as well. Have a little faith!

Archonate wrote:

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:Hm, wrack and grotesques alredy have plastic kits... they are called Ork Boyz/Nobz and Gaunts/Genestealers... seriously, no hard work in it...
At least on my point of view, Haemonculi cabals are a great excuse for kitbashing

From my point of view that's not going to be good enough. No matter how awesome people think their conversions are, I bet they're going to look like garbage next to the real models. Just because Urien Rakarth got a horrible model, doesn't mean the other Homunculi (and their creations) will as well. Have a little faith!

hm, i disagree with you in this matter. marine models will most of the time look better then the conversion (storm raven aside) however xenos conversions are usually ALWAYS better.... and faith in GW? no i think not, look how they screwed over anyone who's NOT marines. primary example Guard: they could have released all the artillery tanks when they redid the basilisk but they didn't

Better example- Nids..

Half the codex missing, and THE most-used monster has no kit..

Guard may be missing some of their spiiffy variants, but they still have tnaks galore, and none of the missing variants is totally vital to the list..

agreed, or better still SW or from 4th ED dark angels

Ascalam wrote:Better example- Nids..

Half the codex missing, and THE most-used monster has no kit..

Guard may be missing some of their spiiffy variants, but they still have tnaks galore, and none of the missing variants is totally vital to the list..

Hydras

Archonate wrote:

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:Hm, wrack and grotesques alredy have plastic kits... they are called Ork Boyz/Nobz and Gaunts/Genestealers... seriously, no hard work in it...
At least on my point of view, Haemonculi cabals are a great excuse for kitbashing

From my point of view that's not going to be good enough. No matter how awesome people think their conversions are, I bet they're going to look like garbage next to the real models. Just because Urien Rakarth got a horrible model, doesn't mean the other Homunculi (and their creations) will as well. Have a little faith!

I agree. There is nothing more that I hate then seeing an ork arm glued to a nid body or a nid arm glued to a marine body. That almost pisses me off at how horrible it is. There are very few well done conversions using different body parts from different armies. I think GW will make great wracks and grotesques because even if they look like then Beastmans minotaur, its okay because they aren't normal looking.

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:marine models will most of the time look better then the conversion (storm raven aside) however xenos conversions are usually ALWAYS better

Funny how different people are. I feel completely the opposite. Imo, because SMs all look the same, as well as have seamed joints, easy to cut and glue, their conversions are easier and almost always turn out better than GWs oh-so-creative stale poses. This is also why I'm never impressed by converted marine armies. Even their vehicles all derive from the same chassis.

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:and faith in GW? no i think not, look how they screwed over anyone who's NOT marines

As far as Dark Eldar go, they have yet to disappoint me (Urien Ratharth aside).

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:

Ascalam wrote:Better example- Nids..

Half the codex missing, and THE most-used monster has no kit..

Guard may be missing some of their spiiffy variants, but they still have tnaks galore, and none of the missing variants is totally vital to the list..

agreed, or better still SW or from 4th ED dark angels

So they have screwed over at least some marines... I still have to disagree, since I believe marines are the most easily converted army.

Thats a mater of opinion... In my case, i would make an Hamonculi Cult army just for the oportunity to convert and kitbash (almost) my entire army...

I dont like "marines with nid arms" or "orks with nids bits", in my opinion, the beutifull about kitbashing is to create a model with lots of parts, that not everyone would recognize at first glance...

If you really think you lack a "wrack kit" take a look on fantasy material (undeads, daemons, marauders), and stick them with some DE bitz, its not hard and dont look silly.

And remember, the lack of plastic kits for wracks and grotesques means other units getting their plastic kits, as these two are easily convertable, i really prefer they dont come in plastic, opening the "slot" for another options (like the Scourges).

Aditionally, wracks should look diferent for each army. Each Haemonculi build their own wracks as they like it. When 2 haemonculi face each other, they should have very different looking forces at their disposal, not the same models in each side...

Just my cents in it...

Agreed - I hope GW leaves wracks and such for Kitbashing. Better that way.

I agree with the comments saying that wracks should be individual to each army but I would love to see a multi part plastic kit for them as the models released so far are incredible. I don't use Dark Eldar but I had to get some of the new Incubi and Mandrakes because they are so damn cool and I will probably be adding some Kabalite warriors and Wyches pretty soon. Since the new models follow the artwork of the codex pretty closely I would like to see if the next wave of models follows the trend as the Scourges and Haemonculi artwork looks very interesting.

You guys are gonna be changing your tune when GW releases models for Wracks... Mark my words.

Archonate wrote: You guys are gonna be changing your tune when GW releases models for Wracks... Mark my words.

Not sure I will.
All rumors point to metal wracks. I have metal models. I especially hate metal models for units where no two are supposed to look exactly alike, per fluff.

As for Urien... I don't get it. Why all the hate, guys? I think he's pretty cool looking.


Eric

Archonate wrote: As for Urien... I don't get it. Why all the hate, guys? I think he's pretty cool looking.
Eric

i agree with you on that

Hydras aren't vital to the Guard, just nice to have. It's not like you can''t throw insane amounts of firepower downrange with the available kits..

I liked Urien, but thought the model a little busy. I borrowed a few of his arms and am in the process of converting him a consort

MagickalMemories wrote:All rumors point to metal wracks. I have metal models. I especially hate metal models for units where no two are supposed to look exactly alike, per fluff.

As for Urien... I don't get it. Why all the hate, guys? I think he's pretty cool looking.

Urien is a very awesome model, the reason I started a Haemonculi cult army.

The only rumors I heard was that Jes wanted to figure out a way to release Wrack vehicle crewmen... that implies to me that they have wracks, at least conceptually, envisioned as plastic.

I think that the sentiment that Wracks should be converted is fine one, but only for the people who want multiple units, using them as a centerpiece to their army. The guy who has wyche army and needs only a single squad should be able to do so more easily.

With the price of selling metal models jumping too quickly to be indeffiniately sustainable GW is moving away from metal models. GW has said now that almost all armies have been given a codex with a range of multi-part kits that cover units with lots of options they want to move into doing more plastic kits to cover units with a single configuration. The Eldar Aspect warriors have been given as an example of this. I would think wracks are much the same.

Mewiththeface wrote:

Archonate wrote:

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:Hm, wrack and grotesques alredy have plastic kits... they are called Ork Boyz/Nobz and Gaunts/Genestealers... seriously, no hard work in it...
At least on my point of view, Haemonculi cabals are a great excuse for kitbashing

From my point of view that's not going to be good enough. No matter how awesome people think their conversions are, I bet they're going to look like garbage next to the real models. Just because Urien Rakarth got a horrible model, doesn't mean the other Homunculi (and their creations) will as well. Have a little faith!

I agree. There is nothing more that I hate then seeing an ork arm glued to a nid body or a nid arm glued to a marine body. That almost pisses me off at how horrible it is. There are very few well done conversions using different body parts from different armies. I think GW will make great wracks and grotesques because even if they look like then Beastmans minotaur, its okay because they aren't normal looking.

Do you even hate mine?

Very cool looking. In any case, there's nothing stopping folks from making their own Wracks as opposed to any that may be released. However, it is very nice when a codex actually has a model for every unit available.

Sarigar wrote:Very cool looking. In any case, there's nothing stopping folks from making their own Wracks as opposed to any that may be released. However, it is very nice when a codex actually has a model for every unit available.

.

Thanks for the comments. I tried to stick to the fluff of the codex too when Urien sided with the Tau against the Tyranids. Strange how the kroot are more useful in my Dark Eldar army than my tau army.

WOW! Got a How-to Blog? I love the minis!

Scottywan82 wrote:WOW! Got a How-to Blog? I love the minis!

Not exactly, but I do have a ton of WIP pics here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/341108.page

Basically they were kroot at first. I added leather greenstuff skirts, tyranid and human arms. Warriors of Chaos bitz for the helmets and weapons. I grafted a bunch of tyrnaid bitz on to them too. The Grotesques were made similarly but instead of a Kroot base mini, I used Chaos Spawn.

Maybe I don't like the Urien model because he looks like an awful conversion to me.

@Lord Scythican: All I'm gonna say about your Wracks conversions (and anyone else's) is that I'm happy you're satisfied with them. Such things are what this hobby is about, and frankly, that's all that matters.

I would hate if GW refused even a metal Wrack kit because "gamers can convert".

Feth that. I don't want to convert a unit that I might want to take 6 of. I don't mind doing conversions for Character models or a single squad as it's a couple of hours of my time plus another couple for painting.

I have no problem with people wanting to use all bits available and converting but the option SHOULD be there for those of us who are too lazy, with disposable income enough to buy GW brand Wracks and/or who realize nothing we convert can ever look as good as Jes' models.

I'm converting some OK Bulls to look like Grotesques but it's a PITA; they will never look as good as Jes' Grotesques and while a lot cheaper it is a unit that for all intents purposes I will only ever use 1-3 of. If I need to shell out $15-20 per model for Jes' Grotesques I'm sure I'll shell out that kind of money, especially if I only need to buy 8 more to get my 3x4 units of them in Raiders with attached Haemo.

FW, my issue is VERY not about cost.
As much as I dislike and refuse to pay GW retail, I can easily afford to.
My issue is about plastic vs. metal. I'd immensely rather have a plastic kit with enough options to make a bunch of different Wracks than a metal kit like the mandrakes. They look good, but there's only so many different poses available.

I agree on the conversions. I dug into my Wrack conversions, got 3 done, and I'm just dreading doing any more. There are SO many other things I'd rather be doing than converting 10, 20, 30 models.

That said, my dislike for GW retail, I admit, WILL cause me to compare metal wracks to non-GW metal proxies for coolness factor.

Eric

kestral wrote:Agreed - I hope GW leaves wracks and such for Kitbashing. Better that way.

You can kitbash even if there are models available, make them available for us who feel like kitbashing looks like crap, I'm seeing I'm not the only one in this thread who feels that way.

I don't really get that, either...part of the reason why we're all into this hobby to begin with is the awesome (in most cases anyway) models, right?

Well, I want to buy and field awesome models, and now it's insinuated that I'm lazy or unimaginative because of it.

Sidstyler wrote:I don't really get that, either...part of the reason why we're all into this hobby to begin with is the awesome (in most cases anyway) models, right?

Well, I want to buy and field awesome models, and now it's insinuated that I'm lazy or unimaginative because of it.

This is a good point! I think it's silly that we get called lazy because we prefer GWS models over converting. And honestly, just because some people are good at conversions, others of us have no idea what we're doing.

The Fragile Breath wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:I don't really get that, either...part of the reason why we're all into this hobby to begin with is the awesome (in most cases anyway) models, right?

Well, I want to buy and field awesome models, and now it's insinuated that I'm lazy or unimaginative because of it.

This is a good point! I think it's silly that we get called lazy because we prefer GWS models over converting. And honestly, just because some people are good at conversions, others of us have no idea what we're doing.

I agree on all points. I like making conversions, but I would rather actually have a voidraven model than a batwing with raider bitz. Its not lazy to want official models. A lot of times conversions are for impatient people who really like a unit and want something now rather than much later. Other times it is for units that do not have a model and might not get one soon. Valkia the Bloody is a good example. I like the unit but I have no idea when they will make a model. I plan on converting one, but I would much rather have an official one.

Sometimes conversions are a good replacement if you are strapped for cash. For instance, I want about 30 wracks, but I do not want 10 copies of 3 very similar looking wracks which will be the case when GW makes them in metal later this year. I really don't have the cash to buy 30 models and since I have useless kroot and some fluff to support the conversion, I might as well chop them up and make use of them.

so far, i haven't been a big fan of most conversions i've seen. the main reason is that they look too dirty, haphazard and low-tech. i mean, Dark Eldar have access to some of the most advanced technology in the galaxy, and the Haemonculi have been honing their craft for millennia. why would they have something that looks like a zombie that just crawled out of the most decrepit hive-world butcher shop? all that said, i do think those are some pretty good wracks/grotesqques.

as for the Urien model, i like Diaz's work, and i think it's a decent-looking model. my main problem with it is thematic. to me, the best thing about the old Urien model was that he had that evil ear-to-ear grin. i think that a Haemonculus should have an expression on his face like: "I LOVE my job!" at least in battle. the way the fluff is written up, they literally get high off of carnage, so the petulant, sullen, angry/constipated expression on the face of the new Urien just doesn't sit well with the fluff of how they're supposed to be: haughty sadists who revel in bloodshed.

If they do wrack models the thing that would make them work properly is if they did ones based off different races, but they only way they would do that is through forgeworld...

you might get a couple of different ones...kinda like how guard you can get cadian, catachan and some of the others but they just use the same rules, it would basically have to be a mix of human based grotesques with some eldar/darkeldar some tau (totally to go with the story about rakarth and the tau) maybe some nids and some other races to go with it....

me for one i would definitely buy wrack models, especially if they plastic cause depending on how they go you could easily mix and match them with other parts to make them look more like they are fleshy abominations made from different parts of different creatures sown together in a frankensteins monster kinda of way....

And i dont get how people can not like the urien rakarth model....i guess i can see that he looks a little busy but you could easily just not put all the extra limbs and what not on him...

Also i would definitely like voidraven and venomwing in one kit just like talos and chronos.....

and as far as a duke sliscus model goes im not too sure how that would work....unless it was multiple parts as he never goes to battle wearing the same thing as he did in previous battles so he would have to have different options so as to make your duke different from the next persons....

but they definitely need to do some more of the special characters, i would prefer a new drazhar (a similar pose to lelith would work) or a decapitator/kheradruakh would be cool, or possibly a lady malys...even though she seems like someone i wouldnt use.....except if i knew i was facing GK which from some rumours seem like they all count as psykers or maybe if i was facing eldar

Sidstyler wrote:I don't really get that, either...part of the reason why we're all into this hobby to begin with is the awesome (in most cases anyway) models, right?

Well, I want to buy and field awesome models, and now it's insinuated that I'm lazy or unimaginative because of it.

I agree. And while I love converting, I don't have any problem at all with GW turning out stuff that doesn't need to be converted.

Lord Scythian - those Wracks and Grotesques are great. The point was made that cross-matching parts from different kits is often done badly, but your conversions are very skillful, and you've taken the extra effort to modify the bits rather than just throwing them together. I really like them

Krusshk, the last post was over three weeks old when you made yours. This falls under the heading of the dreaded Thread Necromancy!