Hi,

yes, these bunch of rumours are by stickmonkey, who sometimes is fed wrong rumours but is one of the few who posts rumours on things several months ahead. So take all the salt you need and enjoy these:

SM here, I debated posting anything, but some others have persuaded me. I have just a few things for the rumored summer of fliers I first mentioned here.

Still rumored as July wd rule set
Apoc style rules, strafing/bombing runs, rapid insertion/extraction, special missions, dogfighting?
Thunder hawk is NOT likely
Codex based releases...
Dark eldar raven
Eldar night wing?
Ig hydra
Nid harpy
Non codex releases...
Ig thunderbolt
Csm hell blade
Tau remora
No necron release?
Ork fighta/bomma
No SM release?

Suspected non codex releases will only be rules...models already FW...

Necrons may get something with their codex.

Raven/night wing likely to be combined kit.

So that's pretty limited, 3 kits and wd rules. But it sounds like it's in the typical wheelhouse.

Probably disappointing news to many, but in light of some of the other speculation running I decided to put some info out.

BTW some flyers are confirmed (BA/GK, DE), others have been seen in the works, and with GW doing only 2-3 Codices/armybooks per year, they HAVE to fill the other months with something

A comment/clarification by stickmonkey:

First, as I alluded to in my op, the models specifically tied to this are "codex" models...the others being available already from FW. Gw and FW have seen a much tighter integration over the past year, and it makes soo much sense to use WD and a simple "Flyer" article to market all the available kits as well as new ones. It's a synergistic strategy capitalizing on new and old model sales and support sales across all codex lines.

Second, the night wing/razor wing are not large models, they are slightly smaller than a valk, so well within existing wheelhouses, at least in terms of bulk...they may be longer, but definitely sleeker. The hydra is essentially one more sprue and a chimera. And the harpy is not much bigger than a carnifex or trygon. So saying they are going nuts with these, I repeat, "rumored" releases is a bit of a stretch.

Last, while I coined it summer of flyers, that was mostly in homage to what the spearhead article was like. Let me set the record right now that that should be the standard of the scale here. A wd semi dedicated to just 40k flyers and some special rules/missions. Anyone reading more into it and hoping for orcas in plastic and ginormous plastics thunderhawks better go have a sanity check. Heck, even Bols is now publishing articles about a "Summer of flyers". It's just a catchy reference, but it is starting to lead to a bit of overblown expectations.

Small update by stickmonkey:

There is a concern that the quality of a few models is not where they want it to be. Most prominently the eldar flyer having too delicate of pieces as currently designed. If the models don't all pass QA this week, it is likely this project will either be pushed back or tabled.

Funny, shouldn't quality control be already done long ago?

Another rumour update by Hendarion over at Warseer:

Update:
The Nightwing and Razorwing will not receive a combi-kit. (...)
Meaning there will be no kit that combines both flyers in one box. Not more and not less.
So it might mean there will be a single kit for each, it might mean there might be only one of the two flyers or even none. (...)
Direct information from someone being involved in the design-process.
The reason for no combi-kit is obvious. Although they look similar, they are still distinct and it won't make sense to merge them.

Captain Ventris over at Warseer posted the working name of this expansion:

40K Expansion: Wartorn Skies-July(...)
Yes, 40K Expansion: Wartorn Skies will be an expansion supposedly done as a White Dwarf Expansion similar to Spearhead however will have actual models released with it.

Wartorn Skies is the working name for the expansion and will likely be kept, but as its a White Dwarf expansion, they can easily change it out before going to the printer...

Fits with 2nd wave Dark Eldar in June, which should include the flyers in June or July.

Here a nice most probably faked box art for a possible Thunderbolt floating the internet for some time:

This kind of blows away a major part of the rumors that have been circulating for months that every army would be getting a new flier model.

All I wanted was a decent stormraven...WHY, GW?! WHY?!

I would buy as many plastic Fighta-Bommas as I could fit in my apartment. Alas...

If true, the Summer of Fliers is going to be more like a Summer of Damp Squibs.

Can we just bring back battlefleet Gothic and keep 40k a game for ground pounders? Please?

I like the rumors, personally. At the least it means more cool new kits and at best, a whole new way to play the game.

Reecius wrote:I like the rumors, personally. At the least it means more cool new kits and at best, a whole new way to play the game.

It depends who you are.

As a Tau army owner, I can tell you that the prospect of a fat drone with two burst cannons, which I can already get off Forge World or convert, does not make the Earth move for me.

The last thing I need is for a lot of other armies to get even more good stuff, and the excuse of official rules to use it, while I limp along with a four year old codex that was second tier when it was new.

Looking forward to the hydra if it's true.. wonder if the comment about no necron stuff mean no necron flyers, or no necron codex at all this summer?

Hydra cha cha cha! Thunderbolt cha cha cha! I'll have a squadron of each please when they go live!

I'm looking forward to the DE flyers. I'm too lazy to convert my own and based on the initial DE models, I'm sure they'll be awesome.

The Remora eh...


*sigh* If I may ask a question commonly asked from when it was originally released, "Do we really need this?"

The Remora is a bit of a surprise, but seeing as the source has a taint to him/herself, I'm going to cling to the idea we might still be getting the Barracuda instead.

The Barracuda does seem more likely, the Remora is just too small.

BrookM wrote:The Remora is a bit of a surprise, but seeing as the source has a taint to him/herself, I'm going to cling to the idea we might still be getting the Barracuda instead.

I dunno. The Remora comes as a surprise, but it does make a kind of sense. And it's a lot bigger than people seem to think.




I can almost see them doing the Remora as a package deal of two or more in a box, maybe.

I sure hope I get the Voidraven/Razorwing before July...

If it's going to be a little fishy then chances are, one per box at Sentinel pricing.

So remora = tau jetbike?

I really love/hate how just when I think I'm getting to the point where an army is "done" and I don't need anything new, they go and do something like this.

At least I still have an extra kidney I can sell just in case...

The elderly are weak and an easy source of money. You know this to be true.

BrookM wrote:The Remora is a bit of a surprise, but seeing as the source has a taint to him/herself, I'm going to cling to the idea we might still be getting the Barracuda instead.

Acording to him, the Remora is in the "rules only" section with no new GW model, so there is still hope for the Barracuda.

Uh, did you guys miss the part of the rumor that said that non-codex releases would be rules only, not GW models as FW's already got the models?

Don't get me wrong - I would love to buy as many Thunderbolts as lord_blackfang would Fighta-Bommas. And I've been really hopeful that we would see a Thunderbolt kit. But if we are to believe this last set of rumors, we won't have to worry about either Remoras or Thunderbolts in plastic.

Frankly, it seems to me that it makes for an extremely weak rumor. So, what? The flyers rules would give a ruleset for aerial combat and then reprint the sucky FW rules for the models they've already made? That'd be superweaksauce.

Meh, its Stickmonkey, I don't really believe it, some things are a bit out of left field (the whole summer of flyers concept is out of left field, and started purely as speculation that w/ all the flyers being put into codecies, they would eventually release an air combat expansion), but this sounds a lot more realistic than the previous "every army would get a flyer" rumor.

Rules only.
No model.


Summer of LAME.

The ork fighta bomma does sond very cool indeed, if these rumours are all true, i'll be getting this first. The eldar night wing would be cool too. No interest in the harpy though.

Do you know if these will be coming with official rules in WD, like they did with spearhead and the eldar night spinner?

this sounds a lot more realistic than the previous "every army would get a flyer" rumor.

A lot more realistic and a lot less exciting. I have a couple Hellblades I bought a few years ago, but no way I'm loading up on more Forge World models for this. Now if they do release a bunch of regular GW kits for some of these, then I might buy a pile of new models.

Kilkrazy wrote:As a Tau army owner, I can tell you that the prospect of a fat drone with two burst cannons, which I can already get off Forge World or convert, does not make the Earth move for me.

This. They picked the least inspiring Tau model for us. For a faction where literally 1 fourth of their population is engaged in aircraft/space-related operations, let's release a goofy drone!

H.M.B.C wrote:Rules only.
No model.


Summer of LAME.

Oh, well that solves that problem then.

This could be the first time that GW will solve one disappointment by offering a bigger disappointment.

Lots of Xenos and no Space Marines? Seems a bit unlikely.

Come on GW, we all want a Thunderhawk. Just make one, it would sell more than all of that lot.

It will save me and a lot of people a lot of money if there are hardly any new model kits this summer, so maybe it's a good thing.

If that's really all the releases, I'll grab a Harpy and Nightwing just cause.

Overall, meh if true. I'm sure I'll try it for a few games, but not all that excited anymore.

Grabbing...37 Harpies?

Lord PoPo wrote:Can we just bring back battlefleet Gothic and keep 40k a game for ground pounders? Please?

+1 i dont feel the need to add flyers really, could be cool modeling oppertunites though, mabye

Platuan4th wrote:If that's really all the releases, I'll grab a Harpy and Nightwing just cause.

Karon wrote:Grabbing...37 Harpies?

Until then, I take a risk and make this Reaper Goroloth my Harpy: Finally a reason to buy this model

I'm with HBMC on this: if they're not going to make plastic kits for any of the iconic fliers, this expansion won't even provide something cool to look at.

Kroothawk wrote:Until then, I take a risk and make this Reaper Goroloth my Harpy: Finally a reason to buy this model

http://www.reapermini.com/graphics/gallery/4/03533_w_3.jpg

Ooh! It's a Abeloth!

AlexHolker wrote:I'm with HBMC on this: if they're not going to make plastic kits for any of the iconic fliers, this expansion won't even provide something cool to look at.

Kroothawk wrote:Until then, I take a risk and make this Reaper Goroloth my Harpy: Finally a reason to buy this model

http://www.reapermini.com/graphics/gallery/4/03533_w_3.jpg

Ooh! It's a Abeloth!

im a noob, i know, but what the hell is that? x)

D and D creature - Aboleth- kindof a big intelligent psionic slimy fish with 3 eyes..

ahhh ok ty

So this is like Spearhead but with Flyers?

Ozymandias wrote:So this is like Spearhead but with Flyers?

Looks like it.

Hope stickmonkey is 100% wrong. I want a flyers rule set that has DOGFIGHTS! And tons of new fighters! At minimum, a flyer for EVERY army. And add in Thundebolts/ Remoras/ Nightwings. Stuff that can actually dogfight and not just be a helicopter/ gunship thing.

AlexHolker wrote:Ooh! It's a Abeloth!

Not quite, but not far away either. And I will give it psychic flight to detract from missing large wings



And I wouldn't give up hope for flyers for all fractions. There have been independent rumours on many of them, including Thunderhawk, Harpy, Nightwing and Barracuda. E.g. here:

BrassScorpion wrote:One of the customers at my local store said he recently took the tour of the GW studio and the person walked him past an area by mistake that is not normally included in the tour. The new fliers were on display, new SoB model and more. He said there's a flier for virtually every 40K army out there, which is the second time I've heard that now from two different sources. And I've heard the "summer of fliers" bit from yet another very reliable person too. Let's hope some of this cool new stuff is released sooner rather than later.

Rumours still too vague to tell what exactly and when.

While this seems a bit more likely than a new flier for every single race being on the way, it does somewhat go against the FW/GW overlap policy which keeps me fairly suspicious. FW are supposed to be stand alone as far as models go, they aren't supposed to make stuff which appears in actual 40k codices other than addons and conversion kits (hence no Thunderwolves etc). If GW are planning on releasing rules for several models which technically they don't produce (which is the current trend, and while its slightly annoying it beats waiting forever for rules to be updated while they wait for the models) then they are are basically deliberately screwing up the system that they put in place.

lord_blackfang wrote:I would buy as many plastic Fighta-Bommas as I could fit in my apartment. Alas...

Agreed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lord PoPo wrote:Can we just bring back battlefleet Gothic and keep 40k a game for ground pounders? Please?

Quiet you, I want to be able to field my 40K scale Kill Krooza!

I just need to rent an auditorium...

@Kilkrazy
Yeah, a Barracuda would have been a lot cooler.

I agree with all of the other Tau players that for a "Summer of Flyers" the Remora Drone Fighter is a bit uninspired. That said, I'm surprised at the lack of respect for the plucky little guy as he is played today in Apoc. Due to the Remora being a flyer and having a stealth field, the darn thing is almost impossible to even target, let alone take down. Also, being a flyer, it always hits side armor so its burst cannons make for perfect Chimera-breakers and they also fill a support role by acting as Seeker Missile platforms. Add in the Networked Markerlight and the thing, while expensive, is fantastic in a dedicated anti-transport role. The only thing that could make Remoras better is giving the Burst Cannons an AA mount (which probably should've been done to begin with considering its supposed to be a FIGHTER to shoot down other aircraft).

Anyways, back to the actual topic. This update, while much more believable is entirely disappointing. No Thunderhawk (though that was a massive longshot to begin with), no Thunderbolt, no Barracuda, no Fighta or Fighta Bommer, no Hell Blade. The only ones that really have anything to be excited for are IG players with a Hydra kit and Eldar/Dark Eldar with their flyer kits. I would've thought that GW would realize after Dark Eldar that a great set of new models will draw people in better then rules, but I guess they didn't see the DE success that way.

Personally as a Dark eldar player I look foward to more flying card board boxes. But I'm not sure I believe this one as it said "No Space Marine kit"

GW not making more space marines is pure insanity. Thats like telling a fish not to swim

You know what makes me sad about the Storm Raven, what really makes me sad?

We could have had this:



Or this



Instead we got this



Boxy doesn't have to mean bad. GW can do good boxy. But they chose not to.

I like that first one Kyoto. Would make a cool plastic kit.

I want me a thunderbolt!

This is very disapointing.... Without the load of plastic kits that were rumored I can't get excited about this.

Zoom! Zoom!



(mad props to Age of Egos)

+1 for the Chibi Kyoto-Hawk!

Kroothawk wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:If that's really all the releases, I'll grab a Harpy and Nightwing just cause.

Karon wrote:Grabbing...37 Harpies?

Until then, I take a risk and make this Reaper Goroloth my Harpy: Finally a reason to buy this model

I have 3 of them, I'm converting them to be rhinox riders in my ogre kingdoms army (I play Sea Ogres...)

Why is there such a large size difference between those two sculpts?

Hope stickmonkey is 100% wrong. I want a flyers rule set that has DOGFIGHTS! And tons of new fighters! At minimum, a flyer for EVERY army. And add in Thundebolts/ Remoras/ Nightwings. Stuff that can actually dogfight and not just be a helicopter/ gunship thing.

Its called aeronautica imperialis. Its produced by forgeworld. You're never going to be able to get a good dogfighting game in using the 40k ruleset, it just can't represent the fast paced and reactionary nature of air combat.

Is Aeronautica any good? I would love to be able to simulate an air raid with troop movements in 40k.

I highly doubt they will make 40K rules but can see Apoc rules.

Aesthetically, the Remora will add nothing to my Tau army. I'm really hoping for any of our other aircraft instead.

I don't see a summer of fliers. Even the DE "aircraft" while getting models for them sounds cool, what is this summer of fliers going to do? provide a set of "conversion" rules to make some skimmers into apoc-esque fliers? Considering we have never seen conversion rules before, and every expansion to date is simply a force org/ deployment set with some "strategems" thrown in, I just can't see this expansion being done. More likley, they will just complete the dark eldar model lineup, and then continue onto GK necrons or whatever. Also keep in mind, the last model releases for the last expansions were I believe, spearhead: "repackaged" IG lemun russ/demolisher/basilisk, a tank cmndr and some eldar bits. Planetstrike just released some crater terrain and the bastion set, cityfight as far as I can recall, was just the "imperial sector" buildings. So considering all this, for GW to suddenly change tac, and release new models for every race, plus a whole new set of rules (including "conversion" for existing skimmers)..... Just not likley. If I'm wrong I'll gladly eat my words and fall into line to buy the ruleset/models..... but, my gut says no. And I trust my gut more then GW or rumors about GW.

CT GAMER wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:I would buy as many plastic Fighta-Bommas as I could fit in my apartment. Alas...

Agreed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lord PoPo wrote:Can we just bring back battlefleet Gothic and keep 40k a game for ground pounders? Please?

Quiet you, I want to be able to field my 40K scale Kill Krooza!

I just need to rent an auditorium...

Mate, check this gak out.

http://www.d-company-wi.com/forum6/1826.html

Also, just putting my 2 cents in, I have to agree with everyone here that us Tau players are being shorthanded with the Remora (provided the rumours are true) while they are effective on the battlefield, they're just not as appealing. Me, personally, I want to learn more about the Tau AIR CASTE, not more drones - which are all essentially the same thing. And I want to be able to field an army that utilizes them, that, and the Barracuda is just such a nice model, looks 'tau-ish' and is a LOT harder to convert than our Remora drones.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:You know what makes me sad about the Storm Raven, what really makes me sad?

We could have had this:



Or this



Instead we got this



Boxy doesn't have to mean bad. GW can do good boxy. But they chose not to.

It looks like they took the worst parts out of the two and stuck them together. Although the narmcharm of the Chibihawk is slowly growing on me.

Happygrunt wrote:I like that first one Kyoto. Would make a cool plastic kit.

It has, but the model is a bit damaged
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440156a&prodId=prod80001a

chaos0xomega wrote:Why is there such a large size difference between those two sculpts?

The one in the front is the new release Goroloth Drone.

Happygrunt wrote:Is Aeronautica any good? I would love to be able to simulate an air raid with troop movements in 40k.

Well, FW is putting Aernonautica and Epic on hold, not releasing new stuff for a while.

BrookM wrote:Hydra cha cha cha! Thunderbolt cha cha cha! I'll have a squadron of each please when they go live!

oh boy... a squadron of Thunderbolts, that would be lovely!

If all these rumors are true, it's going to be dissapointing IMHO. Will it be the end or the start of a new WH40K era ? If it's going to be like Spearhead, it won't work... in my local stores I've yet to see a game of Spearhead or of City Fight.

I'm pouring salt all over this for 3 reasons.

1. It's Stickmonkey
2. Combined DE Raven/Eldar Nightwing kit
3. NOTHING for Space Marines.

1. Every time he posts, my opinion of Stickmonkeys reliability lessens. As far as I can tell, he's NEVER got anything right. On the other hand, he's gotten at least 2 very very wrong: xenos terrain and the Nid codex. I'm not one for atributing to malice what could be simple naivete, so I'm willing to suspect his "source" is just a git taking the mickey. However this doesnt make his rumours any more reliable

2. This is very odd. Why make a two race kit when the vehicles aren't parallels? The only precedent I can think of for cross-race kits is the vindicator, and at least that was the same tank. From what I understand, the Void ravens natural parallel is the Phoenix (both bombers) while the Eldar Nightwing is closer to the Dark Eldar Ravenwing (from the art, their silhuette is near identical). Doing it the way the rumour describes is bizarre to me.

3. Space marines ALWAYS get something. They are the star attraction. Even if they get no models they would get some special rule, or AA missiles for Whirlwinds, or the rumoured addition of Stormravens to every marine army. If they're gonna print rules for Forgeworld models, why not give out some for the thunderhawk?

Just my thoughts

Well, we'll see.

For sure the Marines already have the new toy... the Stormraven and they might get some with the Flier Rules... but only with them.

If that's the case, it's going to be dissapointing.

SonicPara wrote:That said, I'm surprised at the lack of respect for the plucky little guy as he is played today in Apoc. Due to the Remora being a flyer and having a stealth field, the darn thing is almost impossible to even target, let alone take down. Also, being a flyer, it always hits side armor so its burst cannons make for perfect Chimera-breakers and they also fill a support role by acting as Seeker Missile platforms. Add in the Networked Markerlight and the thing, while expensive, is fantastic in a dedicated anti-transport role. The only thing that could make Remoras better is giving the Burst Cannons an AA mount (which probably should've been done to begin with considering its supposed to be a FIGHTER to shoot down other aircraft).

It's not that it's not an effective unit. You can imagine all the other cool armies in this expansion getting hot-shot pilots of daring do sitting on 10 tons of solid rocket thruster... Tau get a robot dinner plate that fights dirty. Just doesn't have any oomph. I'd be tickled pink if I could get a plastic Barracuda leading a squadron of plastic Remora drones- that would be cool. But don't give me the disposable cans as my only choice.

Did SMs get anything for Spearhead? Don't remember now...

GW: Guess what guys! Got some great stuff coming! Summer of Fliers!
Customer: Wow! That's awesome. What's it about?
GW: It's like Spearhead or even Planetstrike, with new rules for flyers, special missions, formations, the works. Remora Drones. Fighta Bomberz. Hell Talons. Thunderbolts. Nightwings!
Customer: That sounds amazing! So which of those is coming out first?
GW: None of them.
Customer: W... bu... ah... huh?
GW: None. We don't have any models for this release. Forge World makes a whole range of flyers though.
Customer: But... why would you... huh?
GW: Make sure you buy the White Dwarf.
Customer: *walks away*

I am thankful that Stickmonkey posts rumors at all, even if he is being fed disinformation (probabally so that they can track back rumors to him if he says something he isn't supposed to).

About the flyers, I'm not too thrilled about it. Total BS, like HMBC said. I'd much rather have another codex release instead of this drivel.

It's more that you are forced to buy overpriced FW crap if you want to be in on this.

BrookM wrote:It's more that you are forced to buy overpriced FW crap if you want to be in on this.

agreed but if your gaurd you have hydra cannons to take down flyers without much trouble to be honest =/

ExarchCain wrote:

Mate, check this gak out.

http://www.d-company-wi.com/forum6/1826.html

Nice...

Clumpski wrote:

BrookM wrote:It's more that you are forced to buy overpriced FW crap if you want to be in on this.

agreed but if your gaurd you have hydra cannons to take down flyers without much trouble to be honest =/

Which if this is the way they go, is also an overpriced piece of FW crap with uber-warped barrels. Unless they allow Manticores and pintle-mounts to go AA in this expansion.

H.B.M.C. wrote:GW: Guess what guys! Got some great stuff coming! Summer of Fliers!
Customer: Wow! That's awesome. What's it about?
GW: It's like Spearhead or even Planetstrike, with new rules for flyers, special missions, formations, the works. Remora Drones. Fighta Bomberz. Hell Talons. Thunderbolts. Nightwings!
Customer: That sounds amazing! So which of those is coming out first?
GW: None of them.
Customer: W... bu... ah... huh?
GW: None. We don't have any models for this release. Forge World makes a whole range of flyers though.
Customer: But... why would you... huh?
GW: Make sure you buy the White Dwarf.
Customer: *walks away*

You are aware that last year we had just ONE GW flyer model and that between February and June there are THREE more confirmed flyers to come, with the Dark Eldar flyers having a good chance to be used as Eldar Flyers as well! Even without that and any other releases, that would be an increase of 300%.

And I believe the rumours that we will see some more this year, including the Harpy. Remember, WD doesn't publish pure FW supplements. So have some faith, even when the current set of stickmonkey's rumours sound weaker that previous rumour sets.

BrookM wrote:

Clumpski wrote:

BrookM wrote:It's more that you are forced to buy overpriced FW crap if you want to be in on this.

agreed but if your gaurd you have hydra cannons to take down flyers without much trouble to be honest =/

Which if this is the way they go, is also an overpriced piece of FW crap with uber-warped barrels. Unless they allow Manticores and pintle-mounts to go AA in this expansion.

i know what you mean about the warped barrels, my mate bought 2 tiger sharks, the one with 2 heavy rail guns, all 3 were warped =/ and the engins wouldnt fit without some major modifications, and after what he just paid for them were reluctant to do it o.o (over a year ago)

Oh nice, it's Fighta slash Bomba now I see. Hope that means they'll put the parts for both into the kit.

All a bit meh to me Im afraid. Smells like another spearhead expansion subbed with flyers. Ho hum.

what was the spearhead expansion, i heard the name before is started collecting and literally NOTHING ELSE about it o.o

Pour vous

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=14900008a

ahh thank you

Happygrunt wrote:

Ozymandias wrote:So this is like Spearhead but with Flyers?

Looks like it.

Hope stickmonkey is 100% wrong. I want a flyers rule set that has DOGFIGHTS! And tons of new fighters! At minimum, a flyer for EVERY army. And add in Thundebolts/ Remoras/ Nightwings. Stuff that can actually dogfight and not just be a helicopter/ gunship thing.

You're talking about a separate game, really.

Fliers only have relevance to core 40K to the extent that they can do ground attack.

It would take hardly any extra rules to allow a flier to have lots of movement, be nearly immune to ground fire except for dedicated anti-aircraft guns, and dish out scathe.

That gives a reason for fliers, and an excuse to give every faction a flier model and an AA gun model. People would buy them if they were cool and/or tactically useful.

A proper dogfighting game would need a new set of rules and models, and needn't interact with 40K at all. It would probably be more interesting as a standalone game, though having written good dogfight rules you could easily do an intergration to 40K, for people who wanted to have fighters attacking ground attack planes.

Gargskull wrote:Oh nice, it's Fighta slash Bomba now I see. Hope that means they'll put the parts for both into the kit.

Shouldn't be too hard, seeing as the Bomba is nothing more than a Fighta, but with extended wings, a turret behind the cockpit and a larger tail section. Other than that, same kit.

Gargskull wrote:Oh nice, it's Fighta slash Bomba now I see. Hope that means they'll put the parts for both into the kit.

Read the first post again, slowly.

Non codex releases...
Ork fighta/bomma

Suspected non codex releases will only be rules...models already FW...

Meh, I was excited for this, but it ended in inevitable dissapointment. Just a sub-par expansion that nobody will end up playing without model support.

How can you say that when it's not out?

All we have is a vague rumour.

That's all we ever have.

Of course, if any other company was going to have a 'Summer of Fliers' they might actually advertise that fact in an attempt to drum up interest and sales.

Any other company.

I'm still curious about this...while I am keeping my fingers crossed for a plastic kit, this rumor suddenly makes me feel a lot better about sinking so much time into my scratch-built Thunderbolt.

I agree with the others who are saying this would work better as an Apocalypse expansion. Honestly, I think Apoc could use a shot in the arm, as it has been quite a while since there has been any major releases or battreps for it. Of course, the fact that it makes sense means nothing in the face of GW business practices...

It seems to me that the people in this thread either don't know, or don't beleive that GW owns ForgeWorld, cause just as a point of interest... they do!

It is profitable for them to have them done by forgeworld first to see the demand. If everyone and there mother started mass ordering from FW to get these fliers, then GW might be more inclined to make more plastics of them/a way to mass produce them to keep the backlogs on FW to a minimum (I guarentee once their hardcores stop placing orders for Titans under the impression that they will have to wait for 6months of backlog before even having their 500+$ model made, GW will start making the plastics) instead of investing heavily in making 10k remoras and 50k thunderbolts to sit in stores and collect dust (see: Ork Stompa).

They are basically just trying to avoid another Spearhead/Apoc Reload incident to avoid taking drastic $ hits for overproducing things that many gamers may not want to include in their normal games. If it is extremely successful, I stongly believe GW will start making the plastics for them (as with the DE success and the Baneblades initial reaction from DoW/Apoc1) and we can probably expect seeing rules for fliers being completely(or at least partially) integrated into the 6th Edition rulebook (see: Cityfight). Planetstrike/ApocReload/Spearhead's failures however, probably won't make the cut.

I mean, it doesnt take a historian to see the patterns in these rumors/release strategy. Just buy your fliers from FW (or a FW reseller/ebay, I got 3 Talons, 2 Blades, and 3 Ravens for a grand total of around 125$ via Ebay, and they were all still in packaging except 1, and I love the paint job on it anyway) keep enthusiasm strong for the New Flyer Rules (by keeping your local groups interested in playing it, even it that means letting them use "paper airplanes as proxies") and as long as GW knows things as selling, they will make the plastics in good time.

I actually think it is best to do it this way (instead of either releaseing all the fliers in some book that you really are only buying to get the rules for 2-3 flyer units or waiting until each codex gets updated) I just really hope they don't exclude market portions (such as Necrons, Tyranids, and Daemons) as that would probably lead to a "Planetstrike" failure quagmire.

~DAR

P.S. To anyone complaining about the SMs only having potentially 1 flier (I.E. the Stormraven) I suggest you review the rules for that model again before filing any more complaints (as it is the ONLY transport other then SHTs from Apoc that can hold MULTIPLE DIFFERENT units in it, and btw, that extra unit is an emperor-damned WALKER)! I'd take the Stormraven over the crappy Hell-Talon ANY day...

I was interested when I first heard about the "Summer of Fliers" but I'm afraid that GW will do what they did with the "Spearhead" release last year. My first thought was, "My, that's an ambitious title." If the latest rumors are true, they'll miss another opportunity to get my money by failing to support an army I care anything about.

It must be nice to be an IG player as this will be the second summer they get new models whereas my Tau will continue to sit on the shelf I suppose.

Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:It seems to me that the people in this thread either don't know, or don't beleive that GW owns ForgeWorld, cause just as a point of interest... they do!

Really? That's what you take from this thread? That we don't get how FW and GW interact? Who has actually said anything like that?

Kind of hard to get excited about the Harpy. If they had brought out the Harpy back in 3rd or even 4th Edition, when units were more vulnerable to barbed stranglers (as in less transports) and Venom Cannons had some kick to them, I would have been excited. Now, it is kind of Meh. I would rather them spend their time on Tervigons, Parasites, Primes, and Spore Pods.


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H.B.M.C. wrote:

Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:It seems to me that the people in this thread either don't know, or don't beleive that GW owns ForgeWorld, cause just as a point of interest... they do!

Really? That's what you take from this thread? That we don't get how FW and GW interact? Who has actually said anything like that?

To add to HBMC, they get that GW owns FW.

However, FW resin pieces are significantly more expensive than thier GW plastic/pewter counterpart. In addition, for those of us who don't live in GB, thier is added overseas shipping. In many cases, the casting of the resin is of lower quality than its plastic counterparts, having a higher propensity for voids, partial fills, air bubbles, and excessive flashing. Plastic is easier to convert than resin and weighs less, making it easier to magnatize...also, I don't need to wear a Hazmat Mask when sawing/sanding plastic.

wyomingfox wrote:Kind of hard to get excited about the Harpy. If they had brought out the Harpy back in 3rd or even 4th Edition, when units were more vulnerable to barbed stranglers (as in less transports) and Venom Cannons had some kick to them, I would have been excited. Now, it is kind of Meh. I would rather them spend their time on Tervigons, Parasites, Primes, and Spore Pods.

yep. The harpy is a fire-magnet, that does nothing and can take little damage. I reckon they should have released wings and another, straight tail, and a flying base, giving you the option of having a harpie or a trygon.

Happygrunt wrote:Is Aeronautica any good? I would love to be able to simulate an air raid with troop movements in 40k.

Aeronautica is actually a lot of fun and an insanely tactical game. And it has alternating activations, which I love.

wyomingfox wrote:Kind of hard to get excited about the Harpy. If they had brought out the Harpy back in 3rd or even 4th Edition, when units were more vulnerable to barbed stranglers (as in less transports) and Venom Cannons had some kick to them, I would have been excited. Now, it is kind of Meh. I would rather them spend their time on Tervigons, Parasites, Primes, and Spore Pods.

And how about a plastic Harridan? Just wishlisting

And GW management has a difficult relationship to FW, mostly saying what FW/Warhammer Forge is NOT allowed to do (like doing no full Squads but conversion kits, no Necrons, no CHaos Dwarf standards. Or remember Apocalypse, when FW was unprepared for the unexpected rush on their products ("What? You mentioned our products in WD and made a supplement where they can be used? Why didn't you inform us!") while GW sales declined as every year?

And concerning the "no models" argument: Time for my Barracuda to get some prectice

Leggy wrote:
2. This is very odd. Why make a two race kit when the vehicles aren't parallels? The only precedent I can think of for cross-race kits is the vindicator, and at least that was the same tank. From what I understand, the Void ravens natural parallel is the Phoenix (both bombers) while the Eldar Nightwing is closer to the Dark Eldar Ravenwing (from the art, their silhuette is near identical). Doing it the way the rumour describes is bizarre to me.

In this case, I give stickmonkey the benefit of the doubt. Clearly, he meant a combined Nightwing/Ravenwing kit, the Voidraven was just a slip of the keyboard.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Happygrunt wrote:

Ozymandias wrote:So this is like Spearhead but with Flyers?

Looks like it.

Hope stickmonkey is 100% wrong. I want a flyers rule set that has DOGFIGHTS! And tons of new fighters! At minimum, a flyer for EVERY army. And add in Thundebolts/ Remoras/ Nightwings. Stuff that can actually dogfight and not just be a helicopter/ gunship thing.

You're talking about a separate game, really.

Fliers only have relevance to core 40K to the extent that they can do ground attack.

It would take hardly any extra rules to allow a flier to have lots of movement, be nearly immune to ground fire except for dedicated anti-aircraft guns, and dish out scathe.

That gives a reason for fliers, and an excuse to give every faction a flier model and an AA gun model. People would buy them if they were cool and/or tactically useful.

A proper dogfighting game would need a new set of rules and models, and needn't interact with 40K at all. It would probably be more interesting as a standalone game, though having written good dogfight rules you could easily do an intergration to 40K, for people who wanted to have fighters attacking ground attack planes.

I've been wrestling with a set of flyer rules for some time, and these are exactly the issues that are coming up.

A good 40K expansion wouldn't mess with the basic sequence of the game too much, and won't add too much overhead. The superheavy rules are a good example of that in play.

However, the nature of flyers, especially their speed and mobility, demands something more fast and furious than the I-go-you-go 40K setup.

I think I've found a happy medium, with flyer vs. flyer dogfights a bit like close combat (both sides struggle on each player's turn), but the rest of flyers' behavior fitting into the regular 40K flow. And to make new rules easier to remember and visualize I used the BFG orders dice. Actually, the dogfighting idea was George Spiggott's. I'm just adding to and adapting them for less-disruptive play.

That's it, I'm taking the afternoon off to get those into decent form. I'll post them here this evening (Seattle time). Then you folks can give feedback, and maybe we'll have our own set of decent flyer rules well before the summer.

KOS wrote:

BrookM wrote:Hydra cha cha cha! Thunderbolt cha cha cha! I'll have a squadron of each please when they go live!

oh boy... a squadron of Thunderbolts, that would be lovely!

It is. I have one, thanks to DeathByMonkeys' great converting skills. A squadron of Nightwings is also fun and handy to have around for Apoc, although it's a serious points-sink.

I'm not buying the original rumor. Really, GW must have realized their rules writing is abysmal-to-mediocre, and trying to sell an expansion they need to have kits people actually want to buy.

Agamemnon2 wrote:I'm not buying the original rumor. Really, GW must have realized their rules writing is abysmal-to-mediocre, and trying to sell an expansion they need to have kits people actually want to buy.

Planetstrike, anyone?

Although to be fair the bastion is a great kit, and I'd imagine that sold pretty well. But for a full rules expansion, there weren't that many models to come out for it- just terrain (iirc?). Heck, even Apoc only introduced two new kits and the vehicle command sprue. The rest was all just repackaging.

Dunno, with Valkyries/Vendettas and Stormhawks, it would only take a couple kits to make a flyers expansion viable. Thunderbolts, a DE/Eldar flyer and maybe one of those Cylo... er, Chaos Hellwhatevers would be plenty. Everyone's just going to kitbash better Ork fightas anyways and GW could probably get away with not giving the Tau or Necrons anything since most players owning those races have a second army (for, you know, WINNING the occasional game).

chaos0xomega wrote:

Leggy wrote:
2. This is very odd. Why make a two race kit when the vehicles aren't parallels? The only precedent I can think of for cross-race kits is the vindicator, and at least that was the same tank. From what I understand, the Void ravens natural parallel is the Phoenix (both bombers) while the Eldar Nightwing is closer to the Dark Eldar Ravenwing (from the art, their silhuette is near identical). Doing it the way the rumour describes is bizarre to me.

In this case, I give stickmonkey the benefit of the doubt. Clearly, he meant a combined Nightwing/Ravenwing kit, the Voidraven was just a slip of the keyboard.

Perhaps. In fact, this would help it tie in with the rumours from the Dark Eldar wave 2 thread. These say the Void Raven is being released in a combined kit with "another aircraft" alongside the Venom, Scourges and Talos/Cronos kit. Most have assumed the other aircraft was the Razorwing, but if it's the Eldar Phoenix, this could work. No reliable rumourmonger has mentioned the Razorwing by name yet, iirc.

So maybe an Eldar flyer with or without spikes? Whoah, those optional spikes are going to raise the price

Savnock wrote:

That's it, I'm taking the afternoon off to get those into decent form. I'll post them here this evening (Seattle time). Then you folks can give feedback, and maybe we'll have our own set of decent flyer rules well before the summer.

Alright folks, here are some trial rules for 40K flyers. They're a reworked version of George Spiggott's old Dogfight rules. There's a bit still to be done (like examples of play and a summary sheet), but here's a very raw form.

There's a lot in there that I'm uncertain of too. I'll start a post in the new rules forum tomorrow and edit this post with the link for input and comments. Unlike certain large companies, I am confident that many heads will produce a better ruleset, and I'm excited to see what Dakka has to say about these.

They're attached to this post in .pdf format because I'm too short on time to cut/paste the tables into a post. Will do so presently.

UMPTEENTH EDIT: Edited the rules a lot, uploaded version 1.4. Better orders, some examples, and better tables. Almost done! Player input much appreciated, if anyone has time to look at them or even try them out.

Looks good, much clearer and more detailed than my take on the rules.

Are you going to turn this into a Dakka article?

George Spiggott wrote:Looks good, much clearer and more detailed than my take on the rules.

Are you going to turn this into a Dakka article?

Oh no, I think your examples were ace- and the whole idea was yours in the first place. My pals did point out that keeping it in the regular sequence of the game makes things smoother though, so that's the major revision.

As for an article, good idea thanks. Tomorrow! Tonight I've gotta get out the door.

A comment/clarification by stickmonkey:

First, as I alluded to in my op, the models specifically tied to this are "codex" models...the others being available already from FW. Gw and FW have seen a much tighter integration over the past year, and it makes soo much sense to use WD and a simple "Flyer" article to market all the available kits as well as new ones. It's a synergistic strategy capitalizing on new and old model sales and support sales across all codex lines.

Second, the night wing/razor wing are not large models, they are slightly smaller than a valk, so well within existing wheelhouses, at least in terms of bulk...they may be longer, but definitely sleeker. The hydra is essentially one more sprue and a chimera. And the harpy is not much bigger than a carnifex or trygon. So saying they are going nuts with these, I repeat, "rumored" releases is a bit of a stretch.

Last, while I coined it summer of flyers, that was mostly in homage to what the spearhead article was like. Let me set the record right now that that should be the standard of the scale here. A wd semi dedicated to just 40k flyers and some special rules/missions. Anyone reading more into it and hoping for orcas in plastic and ginormous plastics thunderhawks better go have a sanity check. Heck, even Bols is now publishing articles about a "Summer of flyers". It's just a catchy reference, but it is starting to lead to a bit of overblown expectations.

I'll get a Hellblade if it comes out.

I'd love to see a plastic Harpie.

Plastic Hydra? I am happy now.

Kroothawk wrote:A comment/clarification by stickmonkey:

First, as I alluded to in my op, the models specifically tied to this are "codex" models...the others being available already from FW. Gw and FW have seen a much tighter integration over the past year, and it makes soo much sense to use WD and a simple "Flyer" article to market all the available kits as well as new ones. It's a synergistic strategy capitalizing on new and old model sales and support sales across all codex lines.

Second, the night wing/razor wing are not large models, they are slightly smaller than a valk, so well within existing wheelhouses, at least in terms of bulk...they may be longer, but definitely sleeker. The hydra is essentially one more sprue and a chimera. And the harpy is not much bigger than a carnifex or trygon. So saying they are going nuts with these, I repeat, "rumored" releases is a bit of a stretch.

Last, while I coined it summer of flyers, that was mostly in homage to what the spearhead article was like. Let me set the record right now that that should be the standard of the scale here. A wd semi dedicated to just 40k flyers and some special rules/missions. Anyone reading more into it and hoping for orcas in plastic and ginormous plastics thunderhawks better go have a sanity check. Heck, even Bols is now publishing articles about a "Summer of flyers". It's just a catchy reference, but it is starting to lead to a bit of overblown expectations.

I'm wondering if someone on warseer directed him to some of the commentary in this/other threads about him. In any case, he seems to have realized what his unchecked rumor-mongering has caused, and is taking the necessary steps to try to tone down this wild speculation. Bravo Mr. stickmonkey, bravo. I applaud your candor.

Remora give me nine of those, oh ... how much???

......... anyone have paper plates???

kevlar'o wrote:Remora give me nine of those, oh ... how much???

......... anyone have paper plates???

Heh, I built 9 of those out of Armored Core weapons kits and few Tau bitz. Worked out to about 43 CENTS apiece, and look better than FW's. If I do say so myself. ;-)

I'd consider a harpy if it looks cool, My FA slots in my nid lists are all full sadly. Darn sexy garyoyles, winged warriors and raveners.

A summer of flyers would be great, the more the better.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I'd love to see a plastic Harpie.

I just hope they don't make it ridiculously huge or put it in an inconvenient pose that makes it difficult to get a cover save (or more difficult, seeing as it will be on some kind of flying stand regardless). We don't need another Trygon-esq model.

They're really missing an opportunity by shooting every other army the bird. I'm not a strong enough hobbyist to correct bent remora barrels or other FW inconsistencies; nor am I willing to pay FW prices.

Perhaps that's what "summer of fliers" is. GW giving everyone the big fat bird.

"you want summer of fliers, how about summer of flying prices?"

DarthSpader wrote:Perhaps that's what "summer of fliers" is. GW giving everyone the big fat bird.

"you want summer of fliers, how about summer of flying prices?"

Oh Snap!!!

DarthSpader wrote:Perhaps that's what "summer of fliers" is. GW giving everyone the big fat bird.

"you want summer of fliers, how about summer of flying prices?"

More like fly like a lead balloon, this and the army showcase thing they're advertising now.

GW Management: Hey guys, I've got it; let's create micro-releases that only do something nice for 1 to 3 armies, people will love it. You know, instead of doing something for every army and selling a great deal more merchandise, we don't want that now do we?
GW Sycophant: Fantastic idea! I've got another great idea! Let's make a big deal about allowing people to "showcase" their armies. Maybe they'll run out and buy all new models like a teenage girl on her first date buys a whole new wardrobe.
GW Management: I'm glad we're so smart. Let's hold hands!



It's becoming painfully obvious that GW will only support Space Marines, IG and whatever flavor of the quarter army they've got.....though it is nice that they're probably going to throw Tyranids a bone.

GW producing a Harpy kit before a Tervigon kit makes ZERO sense to me. Which might mean that's exactly what they're doing...it just doesn't make sense.

gorgon wrote:GW producing a Harpy kit before a Tervigon kit makes ZERO sense to me. Which might mean that's exactly what they're doing...it just doesn't make sense.

With my cynicism helm turned to maximum, I'd guess it's because a) the ability of thralls..er..'customers' ...to visualize and therefore convert a Harpy is pretty high*; b) the inverse is true of a Tervigon. It's totally new, whereas there are plenty of winged Tyranids - and those pictures in the codex are terrible for the Tervigon and the Tyrannofex. Most conversions look like a carnifex with giant...um...lady bitz.

*case in point: 1) trygon kit + Ultraforge Great War Demon wings (sold separately, even!) + a head spike made of a big nid forelimb + some bio cannon bitz = finished harpy. My tervigon was much more difficult, and looks like a carnifex and giant squid had congress. It's monstery, and looks better than the pic in the codex *and* the aforementioned other attempts I've seen - but it doesn't look "GW".

gorgon wrote:GW producing a Harpy kit before a Tervigon kit makes ZERO sense to me. Which might mean that's exactly what they're doing...it just doesn't make sense.

There was a Tyranid Wave 2 thread that kroothawk posted here that had early rumors of a Tervigon kit and some other tyranid stuff coming in the summer. Whether this flier expansion pushes it back or not, remains to be seen.

Surely most Tyranid players have already made Tervigons from other parts?

I suppose an official Tervigon release would pull in some new players, or replace some of the homemade models.

Kilkrazy wrote:Surely most Tyranid players have already made Tervigons from other parts?

I suppose an official Tervigon release would pull in some new players, or replace some of the homemade models.

looking at the artwork, it's obviously a carnife with more talons instead of legs that has little babies. I reckon GW should do what chapterhouse did- a conversion kit. The two kits would be too similar. But then, since CH did one first...

VoidAngel wrote:
...looks like a carnifex and giant squid had congress.

"There are Tyranids in Congress?"

While I don't want the remora to be our ONLY flyer, I wouldn't mind it being our support flyer. Though honestly if I'm getting a flyer I'd prefer a tigershark, as it seems more apt for an attack role, which is what you'd want on the 40k battlefield. A fighter is better for AtA fighting, not AtS, which the Tigershark is better equipped for.

That said: if GW made an Orca kit, I would buy three for my Hunter Cadre.

Three.

And, to beat a dead horse, one wonders why GW doesn't just offer a photo shopped pic on the back of the January WD with three different flyers and explosions and stuff, and at the bottom it says "July."

Then the next month they start talking about O+G or something. They could have WD littered with easter eggs for people to find that offer hints on what's to come. Instead? The jump out of the bushes the month before a release and say "HEY! Here's something new!" If they'd told me a few months ahead of time, I could have saved money from my non-GW hobbies and spent $300 in one day on the FotM. But no. Instead they keep the tightest possible lid on EVERYTHING until it's been released. Can you imagine if the video game community did this? How much money would game companies make if there was no CES or E3? :sigh:

Well, I don't know about you guys, but hearing about games coming out ahead of time makes me not want to buy them when they're released. I was so excited for Deus Ex 3 when I had no idea it was coming out, and then when the trailer was shown at E3 my excitement instantly died and now I couldn't care less. Definitely haven't had it on my Steam wishlist for months and definitely won't be buying it when it officially comes out. Not at all.

I mean that's the only reason the stormraven is so unpopular after all, because it was leaked too soon. If no one had seen any pictures of it until it was in White Dwarf everyone would have looooved it!

I thought people hated the Storm Raven because it looks like the mutated baby spawn of a Thunderhawk? At least in the leaked pictures it did. I'm not sure if waiting till the official release would have toned down the response to it at all...

Funny enough, seeing the constructed model with my own eyes and with a coat of paint slapped onto it, it's not half bad. Not that I'd build one the way it is now, but either GW has odd photoshop skills or the Chibi-hawk is just very shy about cameras.

Really? Huh, I wouldn't mind seeing one at some point...

I love the Chunderhawk in the flesh. It looks and feels right. My only complaint would be that it should have proper clamps for holding the Dreadnought underneath rather than a flimsy magna grapple cable.

Sidstyler wrote:Well, I don't know about you guys, but hearing about games coming out ahead of time makes me not want to buy them when they're released.

I knew about the Space Hulk rerelease 2.5 years in advance ... and I bought two
And GW sales were considerably higher when they made previews and the creative staff wasn't gagged and handcuffed.

And Space Hulk is a great example. It's a stand alone game with it's own rule set. We know what we're getting when we're told "It's Space Hulk." Then you show a few images of models, a tile or two. Tease, tease, tease... and we just can't wait to have it in our HANDS and play it. $100 game? Bought. Many people bought two. One guy in my store bought 4 of the available 6 copies, then a copy that was available for a charity auction just this last year. The game is just fun and fluffy and gorgeous, and GW somehow thinks that telling us about a game more than 30 days in advance will dull our desire to have it? If they are so uncertain of a product selling itself based on it's appearance or fun value, then MAYBE THEY SHOULD WORK ON QUALITY CONTROL!!!

As we've seen with the Stormraven (and video game screen shots), seeing it isn't as good as having it or playing it. Otherwise, why would we even play the game when we could look at pictures of it.

To tell us that we can see something but not touch it yet makes us want it more, especially as it gets closer and we get a clearer and clearer look at how good it is. Like a beautiful woman in a club. Desire is a part of the human condition, GW. Talk to some women. Maybe they can teach you a little something about making boys' pulses race.

Nagashek wrote:

VoidAngel wrote:
...looks like a carnifex and giant squid had congress.

"There are Tyranids in Congress?"

While I don't want the remora to be our ONLY flyer, I wouldn't mind it being our support flyer. Though honestly if I'm getting a flyer I'd prefer a tigershark, as it seems more apt for an attack role, which is what you'd want on the 40k battlefield. A fighter is better for AtA fighting, not AtS, which the Tigershark is better equipped for.

That said: if GW made an Orca kit, I would buy three for my Hunter Cadre.

Three.

And, to beat a dead horse, one wonders why GW doesn't just offer a photo shopped pic on the back of the January WD with three different flyers and explosions and stuff, and at the bottom it says "July."

Then the next month they start talking about O+G or something. They could have WD littered with easter eggs for people to find that offer hints on what's to come. Instead? The jump out of the bushes the month before a release and say "HEY! Here's something new!" If they'd told me a few months ahead of time, I could have saved money from my non-GW hobbies and spent $300 in one day on the FotM. But no. Instead they keep the tightest possible lid on EVERYTHING until it's been released. Can you imagine if the video game community did this? How much money would game companies make if there was no CES or E3? :sigh:

Not wanting to belabour the obvious, but GW have had falling sales pretty much continuously for several years.

Maybe their publicity department is DOING IT WRONG.

Safe bet is that observation is spot on.

CLEARLY they need to do something different.

And better.

Heretical Blasphemers! Clearly they only put out falling sales reports out of a sense of modest nobility!

Gee I seem to recall that GW did this EXACT THING only.... a few years ago.... lets see... AH YES...
Here it is... rules for fliers and all that. As I recall there were lots of people fielding these fighters in tabletop battles.
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1340005_Bommerz_Over_Da_Sulphur_River.pdf

helgrenze wrote:Gee I seem to recall that GW did this EXACT THING only.... a few years ago.... lets see... AH YES...
Here it is... rules for fliers and all that. As I recall there were lots of people fielding these fighters in tabletop battles.
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1340005_Bommerz_Over_Da_Sulphur_River.pdf

Just like an Okie to be a wet blanket. Now you're going to run out and try to break the law because the people voted for you and by god that makes you right!

I think GW should stay with the gradual approach. They released the valkery for Imperial Guard, made rules for Tyranid harpies (maybe a model one day), and now the stormraven for blood angels. They should continue to introduce fliers for each codex release.

"There are Tyranids in Congress?"

LOLZ - of COURSE there are! Have you seen these people? Mindless, ravening monsters with an occasional control node of evil, alien, intelligence guiding them to subvert and consume us utterly. Watch CSPAN sometime, see if I'm wrong.

While I don't want the remora to be our ONLY flyer, I wouldn't mind it being our support flyer. Though honestly if I'm getting a flyer I'd prefer a tigershark, as it seems more apt for an attack role, which is what you'd want on the 40k battlefield. A fighter is better for AtA fighting, not AtS, which the Tigershark is better equipped for.

>>seconded

That said: if GW made an Orca kit, I would buy three for my Hunter Cadre.

Three.

>>seconded, agaiin




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Sidstyler wrote:Well, I don't know about you guys, but hearing about games coming out ahead of time makes me not want to buy them when they're released. I was so excited for Deus Ex 3 when I had no idea it was coming out, and then when the trailer was shown at E3 my excitement instantly died and now I couldn't care less. Definitely haven't had it on my Steam wishlist for months and definitely won't be buying it when it officially comes out. Not at all.

I mean that's the only reason the stormraven is so unpopular after all, because it was leaked too soon. If no one had seen any pictures of it until it was in White Dwarf everyone would have looooved it!

No, the reason people don't looooooooove it is that it's FUGLY. The Caestus looks far better, and for what probably amounts to similar cost - I'll be getting one of those. Actually, I'll just finish my kit-based Stormraven from before we had a clue what it was going to look like.

VoidAngel wrote:That said: if GW made an Orca kit, I would buy three for my Hunter Cadre.

Three.

A GW Orca would be a blessing as the FW one I'm building right now (and apparently how all are cast now with the deteriorating moulds) has its dimensions off by quite a bit on some key parts making for lots of gap filling and some major counter-warping work. One thing though, if GW makes an Orca, don't expect a detailed command center like the FW one. The troop bay is probable but the custom seated Fire Warriors would be expecting a bit much. They would likely just have an open, bare bay to keep down costs of moulding.

As for the combat flyers, a Barracuda would really be better suited to 40K as the Tiger Shark is a super-heavy flyer. Sure the Barracuda is officially an air superiority fighter but it is plenty suited for engaging ground targets. With an Ion Cannon, TL Missile Pod, 2x Burst Cannons, and an optional 4x Seeker missiles the Barracuda packs probably the most dakka out of any of the fighters. As far as sheer weaponry, I think only the Thunderbolt or Fighta Bommer could rival it (though the Fighta Bommer would be missing a lot of its shots).

GW could sell a ton of Orca kits.

It would be nice if they included a sprue to convert it to a gunship. Kroothawk has some pictures of Orca variants.

SonicPara wrote:

Nagashek wrote:That said: if GW made an Orca kit, I would buy three for my Hunter Cadre.

Three.

A GW Orca would be a blessing as the FW one I'm building right now (and apparently how all are cast now with the deteriorating moulds) has its dimensions off by quite a bit on some key parts making for lots of gap filling and some major counter-warping work. One thing though, if GW makes an Orca, don't expect a detailed command center like the FW one. The troop bay is probable but the custom seated Fire Warriors would be expecting a bit much. They would likely just have an open, bare bay to keep down costs of moulding.

As for the combat flyers, a Barracuda would really be better suited to 40K as the Tiger Shark is a super-heavy flyer. Sure the Barracuda is officially an air superiority fighter but it is plenty suited for engaging ground targets. With an Ion Cannon, TL Missile Pod, 2x Burst Cannons, and an optional 4x Seeker missiles the Barracuda packs probably the most dakka out of any of the fighters. As far as sheer weaponry, I think only the Thunderbolt or Fighta Bommer could rival it (though the Fighta Bommer would be missing a lot of its shots).

No interior detail on the GW Orca? Wouldn't care. Give me a ramp and 4 boxy engines and i'm set. It just makes for the perfect Apoc support craft: a means to insert my Firewarriors from reserve in STYLE. The best place for GW to start with flyers, IMO, is where they have: the 41st millenial equivilant to the Blackhawk. Anything that provides close air support to the troopers it is inserting or extracting is what is most appreciated.

Or some Gorram air support.

Might and possibly is nothing but my local Meadowhall store has their Stormraven painted up in Ultramarine colours.

at first I thought the picture was horrible, then saw others from better angles and were more welcoming of it.
However having seen it in person.
No, it just doesn't look, "right", not big enough (how many marines can it hold?) and looks out of proportion, the front end way to heavy. :/

I wouldn't be surprised if we saw the Barracuda as a heavy support choice in the next Tau codex.

talking about falling gw sales, didnt they jump up when they did the medusa campain? o.O i know my flgs did

If this is true, I'm getting a Tyranid Harridan, it's always nice to have the biggest thing in the sky.

Small update by stickmonkey:

There is a concern that the quality of a few models is not where they want it to be. Most prominently the eldar flyer having too delicate of pieces as currently designed. If the models don't all pass QA this week, it is likely this project will either be pushed back or tabled.

Funny, shouldn't quality control be already done long ago?

Given some of the releases that make it out the door...

Also, very convenient timing for this one, isn't it?

Sidstyler wrote:Well, I don't know about you guys, but hearing about games coming out ahead of time makes me not want to buy them when they're released. I was so excited for Deus Ex 3 when I had no idea it was coming out, and then when the trailer was shown at E3 my excitement instantly died and now I couldn't care less. Definitely haven't had it on my Steam wishlist for months and definitely won't be buying it when it officially comes out. Not at all.

I mean that's the only reason the stormraven is so unpopular after all, because it was leaked too soon. If no one had seen any pictures of it until it was in White Dwarf everyone would have looooved it!

No, the reason people don't looooooooove it is that it's FUGLY. The Caestus looks far better, and for what probably amounts to similar cost - I'll be getting one of those. Actually, I'll just finish my kit-based Stormraven from before we had a clue what it was going to look like.

Someone doesn't get sarcasm.

The caestus does not look better, btw. It's just as ugly, couldn't hold 12 Marines, and couldn't "realistically fly", either.

Sidstyler wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:Well, I don't know about you guys, but hearing about games coming out ahead of time makes me not want to buy them when they're released. I was so excited for Deus Ex 3 when I had no idea it was coming out, and then when the trailer was shown at E3 my excitement instantly died and now I couldn't care less. Definitely haven't had it on my Steam wishlist for months and definitely won't be buying it when it officially comes out. Not at all.

I mean that's the only reason the stormraven is so unpopular after all, because it was leaked too soon. If no one had seen any pictures of it until it was in White Dwarf everyone would have looooved it!

No, the reason people don't looooooooove it is that it's FUGLY. The Caestus looks far better, and for what probably amounts to similar cost - I'll be getting one of those. Actually, I'll just finish my kit-based Stormraven from before we had a clue what it was going to look like.

Someone doesn't get sarcasm.

The caestus does not look better, btw. It's just as ugly, couldn't hold 12 Marines, and couldn't "realistically fly", either.

I'd put more faith in it then a Monolith though. That thing Definitely is breaking some laws of physics, turrets couldn't possibly flap fast enough.

Necrons don't need faith (humor noted and processed for later dissection)

They have the 'any sufficiently complex technology is indistinguishable from magic' blag

Ascalam wrote:
They have the 'any sufficiently complex technology is indistinguishable from magic' blag

The C'tan did it!

I still hope the flyers get through. Always enjoy new plastic sets

Kroothawk wrote:Small update by stickmonkey:

There is a concern that the quality of a few models is not where they want it to be. Most prominently the eldar flyer having too delicate of pieces as currently designed. If the models don't all pass QA this week, it is likely this project will either be pushed back or tabled.

Funny, shouldn't quality control be already done long ago?

Oh my God, this is such a shocker. It completely changes everything I've ever thought about GW. I'm not sure if my mind can process the paradigm shift. I need a paper bag to breathe into.

(*HUFF* *HUFF* *HUFF*)

That's better.

You mean to tell me GW actually has a QA department?

What a load of crap. It was always a load of crap.

...the rumors or that GW has a QA department?

Sidstyler wrote:...the rumors or that GW has a QA department?

99% of Stickmonkey's posts.

Hell blades? Really? Ugh.

A person who evidently knows when GW's quality control board (hah!) reviews individual projects, and yet has a prediction record about on par with a smart guesser with no inside info.

lord_blackfang wrote:A person who evidently knows when GW's quality control board (hah!) reviews individual projects, and yet has a prediction record about on par with a smart guesser with no inside info.

I can't believe you used "GW" and "quality control" in the same sentence without falling on the ground and laughing yourself to death.

agnosto wrote:I can't believe you used "GW" and "quality control" in the same sentence without falling on the ground and laughing yourself to death.

Controlling that the quality is poor quality is still a form of Control (Infact, its safe to say the GW puts the 'Troll' in 'Quality Control'

((Inb4 Thread lock!))

~DAR

GW Thunderhawk please. Preferably so I can "Living Daylights" a land raider off it.

Lord PoPo wrote:Can we just bring back Aeronautica Imperialis and keep 40k a game for ground pounders? Please?

FTFY. If I recall, it was even Epic-compatible.

EDIT: Why, hello page 6! I gotta stop doing that...

Brother SRM wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:...the rumors or that GW has a QA department?

99% of Stickmonkey's posts.

Didn't he cop out on that rumor about "Summer of Flyers"?

Wonder what his sources are? GW Redshirts?

Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:

agnosto wrote:I can't believe you used "GW" and "quality control" in the same sentence without falling on the ground and laughing yourself to death.

Troll'

Clumpski wrote:talking about falling gw sales, didnt they jump up when they did the medusa campain? o.O i know my flgs did

GW's sales have been relatively steady. If you compare revenue from FY10 to FY09... revenue came up, albeit at a low rate. The "Summer of Flyers" is no different than the rational of the movie industry, put out the most exciting thing in the summer when people have time and money to spend.

I'm very much awaiting the 'Summer of Flyers'. My Hydra Flak Emplacement arrived today, and my antiaircraft network is complete with that lynchpin...

Mwhahahaha!

Kanluwen wrote:I'm very much awaiting the 'Summer of Flyers'. My Hydra Flak Emplacement arrived today, and my antiaircraft network is complete with that lynchpin...

Mwhahahaha!

Yeah, unless some rules are changed Hydras will shoot any light flyer out of the sky instantly. Anything with less than AV12 is screwed, and even AV12 is in trouble. Heck, nobody but Orks could afford to field enough flyers to take out a decent Hydra setup. And if other races get similar things (like if the Eldar Firestorm gets rules similar to the Hydra's)... well, the Summer of Flyers will be the Summer of Stormravens and Wreckage of Everything Else.

That's why my flyer rules brought back the glancing rule for flyers (well, a -1 version of glancing hits) instead of the cover save, unless the flyer is on Evasive Action orders (in which case it gets a 4+ save). There's still something for the Hydras to strip off then, but without totally unbalancing the game.

Another rumour update by Hendarion over at Warseer:

Update:
The Nightwing and Razorwing will not receive a combi-kit. (...)
Meaning there will be no kit that combines both flyers in one box. Not more and not less.
So it might mean there will be a single kit for each, it might mean there might be only one of the two flyers or even none. (...)
Direct information from someone being involved in the design-process.
The reason for no combi-kit is obvious. Although they look similar, they are still distinct and it won't make sense to merge them.

Which makes me doubt that we'll ever see them.

bring on the plastic Hellblade! Please?

And if you lose the match and are in a snit you can take out the opponent with a thrown plane from 50 ft

Those things are pointy. My wife says the same of some Eldar vehicles. They look designed to be thrown

(Just kidding.. Please don't throw your models )

The reason for no combi-kit is obvious. Although they look similar, they are still distinct and it won't make sense to merge them.

Excuse me what?
Didn't GW recently release a kit that combined a cannon and a catapult?
Exactly how distinct can two spiky elf planes be?

Exactly how distinct can two spiky elf planes be?

With luck we'll find out one way or the other this coming spring or summer.

HoverBoy wrote:

The reason for no combi-kit is obvious. Although they look similar, they are still distinct and it won't make sense to merge them.

Excuse me what?
Didn't GW recently release a kit that combined a cannon and a catapult?
Exactly how distinct can two spiky elf planes be?

The "Nightwing" is a Craftworld Eldar plane.
Specifically:

The Razorwing is a Dark Eldar craft, which has only been depicted in art.

And in art it is depicted AS A SPIKY NIGHTWING. They quite literally are the same aircraft, with the difference being the weaponry they carry.

Kroothawk wrote:Another rumour update by Hendarion over at Warseer:

Update:
The Nightwing and Razorwing will not receive a combi-kit. (...)
Meaning there will be no kit that combines both flyers in one box. Not more and not less.
So it might mean there will be a single kit for each, it might mean there might be only one of the two flyers or even none. (...)
Direct information from someone being involved in the design-process.
The reason for no combi-kit is obvious. Although they look similar, they are still distinct and it won't make sense to merge them.

Soooo, that rumour basically says, 'I don't know anything! Of the two things, both could happen, or one, or none!'

So it might mean there will be a single kit for each, it might mean there might be only one of the two flyers or even none

Haven't most of the recent rumors said that only Codex entries are getting a new plastic kit in this supposed "summer of fliers" release? If that's the case then it answers this question. The Dark Eldar have a flier/skimmer with no model in their Codex, the "regular" Eldar do not.

chaos0xomega wrote:And in art it is depicted AS A SPIKY NIGHTWING. They quite literally are the same aircraft, with the difference being the weaponry they carry.

Hey, that's not really such a bad thing. Shared kits and bitz-swapping between the two lines play right into our modellers' hands, meaning more cool crossovers and more spare bitz.

Also, for those who are interested, here's the most recent version of my homebrew flyer rules, soon to be "The Ruleset that Dakka Did Better Than GW", I hope. Working on a Dakka article right now, and will need playtester input later. But for now I'm just sticking it here in the hopes that folks interested in Flyers will keep it in mind.

Ketara wrote:Soooo, that rumour basically says, 'I don't know anything! Of the two things, both could happen, or one, or none!'

Read it again: He said he knows there will not be a combined kit. He doesn't know whether the individual kits will happen, but the only reason he brought it up was to stop someone jumping to conclusions.

I just care about whether the Razorwing and Voidraven are getting their own (or combined) kit(s) or not. Don't care about the Nightwing or any non-S&M elf business.

Seems to me that this whole Summer of Flyers is becoming more and more doubtful.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Seems to me that this whole Summer of Flyers is becoming more and more doubtful.

Or at most something like Spearhead, with just a few new kits and some variant 40K rules.

BrassScorpion wrote:

Death By Monkeys wrote:Seems to me that this whole Summer of Flyers is becoming more and more doubtful.

Or at most something like Spearhead, with just a few new kits and some variant 40K rules.

All the more reason for us (the fan community) to do the rules better and show GW what decent development can put out. Hell, maybe next time they'll look to the fanbase for decent rules material, like they did in the old days (Tuomas Pirinen and whatnot).

As for the models, paperhammer is good for large flat surfaces and conversions aren't that hard (at least for Imperials).

chaos0xomega wrote:And in art it is depicted AS A SPIKY NIGHTWING. They quite literally are the same aircraft, with the difference being the weaponry they carry.

Look again at the artwork

The only piece of art(at least that I've seen, page 46) illustrates the Ravenwing Jet Fighter from the underside.

It actually is a good reference point, when compared to this:


The Razor's wings are fixed, rather than swing like the Nightwing's. The Razorwing's also got a more pronounced wing profile, that arcs forwards in a 'hook' shape.

Kanluwen wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:And in art it is depicted AS A SPIKY NIGHTWING. They quite literally are the same aircraft, with the difference being the weaponry they carry.

Look again at the artwork

The only piece of art(at least that I've seen, page 46) illustrates the Ravenwing Jet Fighter from the underside.

It actually is a good reference point, when compared to this:


The Razor's wings are fixed, rather than swing like the Nightwing's. The Razorwing's also got a more pronounced wing profile, that arcs forwards in a 'hook' shape.

The Razorwing pic is a silhouette, how can you tell? In any case, IIRC, the Nightwings wings fit flush against the back (admittedly its been a while since I've last seen my friends Nightwings). Besides that, the issue of a different wing is not enough to prevent a common kit, look at the major differences between some of the newer multi-model fantasy kits. In this case it would be a pretty simple case of an eldar wing and a dark eldar wing.

The two look pretty damned similar given the artwork.

If anything the kit would work fine as an Eldar kit with an upgrade sprue to turn it into a Razorwing.

chaos0xomega wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:And in art it is depicted AS A SPIKY NIGHTWING. They quite literally are the same aircraft, with the difference being the weaponry they carry.

Look again at the artwork

The only piece of art(at least that I've seen, page 46) illustrates the Ravenwing Jet Fighter from the underside.

It actually is a good reference point, when compared to this:


The Razor's wings are fixed, rather than swing like the Nightwing's. The Razorwing's also got a more pronounced wing profile, that arcs forwards in a 'hook' shape.

The Razorwing pic is a silhouette, how can you tell?

Simply put? Because it's a silhouette It's relatively easy to distinguish the two, at least to my eyes.

The Razorwing has a more 'brutal' look, knife-like even. The spar that the cockpit would be part of looks to be a bit longer and what's more it seems like the Dark Lances are situated directly under the wings rather than the midline.

In any case, IIRC, the Nightwings wings fit flush against the back (admittedly its been a while since I've last seen my friends Nightwings). Besides that, the issue of a different wing is not enough to prevent a common kit, look at the major differences between some of the newer multi-model fantasy kits. In this case it would be a pretty simple case of an eldar wing and a dark eldar wing.

Yes/no. There's a small gap for the Nightwings' wings when swept back.

However, it's always possible that the reason we won't see a Nightwing/Razorwing combined kit is because the Razorwing already was going to be combined with the Voidraven.

For the record I thought the Razorwing and Nightwing were the same vehicle until I looked it up.

I thought the Razorwing was the 'old' Dark Eldar flyer from Forge World, to be honest.

Then I looked and remembered it was the 'Raven'.

Either way. The Nightwing and Craftworld Eldar stuff have a noticeably different 'feel' than the Dark Eldar stuff.

The codex entry for the Razorwing even has a statement to the effect that "less experienced Guard Commanders mistake the Razorwing for its Craftworld cousin, the Nightwing" then details that it's noticeably different, but looks the same from a distance.

Cerebrium wrote:GW Thunderhawk please. Preferably so I can "Living Daylights" a land raider off it.

possible but not likely, more expect the storm raven to be transferred to all marines and MAYBE marines will get the whirlwind hyperios to deal with aircraft, or if marine players are really lucky the hunter

Uh, what makes you think the "Whirlwind Hyperios" needs a kit?

The Whirlwind as it is pretty much would work as a Hyperios.

it may not even be a kit, but an expensive add on sprue (somewhere between $15 to $25 seems about GW pricing for something like that) i don't think is out of the question

Sidstyler wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:Well, I don't know about you guys, but hearing about games coming out ahead of time makes me not want to buy them when they're released. I was so excited for Deus Ex 3 when I had no idea it was coming out, and then when the trailer was shown at E3 my excitement instantly died and now I couldn't care less. Definitely haven't had it on my Steam wishlist for months and definitely won't be buying it when it officially comes out. Not at all.

I mean that's the only reason the stormraven is so unpopular after all, because it was leaked too soon. If no one had seen any pictures of it until it was in White Dwarf everyone would have looooved it!

No, the reason people don't looooooooove it is that it's FUGLY. The Caestus looks far better, and for what probably amounts to similar cost - I'll be getting one of those. Actually, I'll just finish my kit-based Stormraven from before we had a clue what it was going to look like.

Someone doesn't get sarcasm.

The caestus does not look better, btw. It's just as ugly, couldn't hold 12 Marines, and couldn't "realistically fly", either.

Meh. Fugly is in the eye of the beholder. And there's an old saying in the aeronautics industry - with enough thrust, a brick will fly!

Tell that to the people criticizing the stormraven design, lol.

With the thrust needed to lift that thing you culd just strap some engines to a land raider and have it fly... oh wait, nevermind.

I see what you did there

I wonder if we will see some AA units, like the Hunter, too.

You mean like the rumored IG hydra?

If they start making flyers an integral part of the 40k ruleset, they better be ready to introduce more AA.

IG allways get da best guns

Kanluwen wrote:I thought the Razorwing was the 'old' Dark Eldar flyer from Forge World, to be honest.

Then I looked and remembered it was the 'Raven'.

Either way. The Nightwing and Craftworld Eldar stuff have a noticeably different 'feel' than the Dark Eldar stuff.

The codex entry for the Razorwing even has a statement to the effect that "less experienced Guard Commanders mistake the Razorwing for its Craftworld cousin, the Nightwing" then details that it's noticeably different, but looks the same from a distance.

There was also a forgeworld flyer called the razorwing which was essentially two ravens fit together.

I don't know about that but the current FW Raven looks like one of the old Reaver Jet Bikes with wings and an additional pair of guns. Really aweful. One of their worst models. It looks like something from the old 60's Batman TV show.

http://www.google.nl/imgres?imgurl=http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c271/kahrandhil666/warhammer%252040K/update1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.40konline.com/community/index.php%3Ftopic%3D192841.0&usg=__YcJ6B7OxVSe8OGmPdxaQj-ZbcTI=&h=800&w=797&sz=131&hl=nl&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=Hp6mIXr0JgXlTM:&tbnh=149&tbnw=149&ei=dERtTZTyEc6ChQf9k7CRDA&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddark%2Beldar%2Brazorwing%2Band%2Braven%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dnl%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dsafari%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Den%26biw%3D1602%26bih%3D931%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=1206&vpy=70&dur=558&hovh=225&hovw=224&tx=104&ty=103&oei=dERtTZTyEc6ChQf9k7CRDA&page=1&ndsp=36&ved=1t:429,r:5,s:0


Just a link to a foto with an old raider a raven a razorwing and an old jetbike

This thread just won't die!

I really do hope there's some truth to... some of this!

Alpharius wrote:This thread just won't die! I really do hope there's some truth to... some of this!

I was thinking exactly the same thing earlier today when I saw another post in here. And I'll second that sentiment, even though we've got little to go on at this point I hope some of it turns out to be "for realsies". Actually, something someone with contacts said to me earlier this winter gives me some real hope we will be seeing something like this, though what the final form will take I cannot say. I'm guessing at best it's now really close to being like Spearhead, which is to say just two or three new models and a variant rules set.

I make absolutely no claims regarding the veracity of this post from the BoLS Lounge, the word "hearsay" is even misspelled in it, but I thought I'd toss it into the rumor pot here as long as this thread is "the thing that wouldn't die". Enjoy...

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?t=13695%22

So I know there's bit a bit of a hush hush about this recently, but I picked up a relatively juicy bit of info yesterday from an industry insider (sculptor, daemon and slayer sword winner, friends with nearly all of GWs design team)-- I'm not going to say who-- that a Plastic Thunderhawk is looking promising for this summer.

He didn't know if they'd have it finished, but they've been working on it.

Again, this is merely heresay, though the information and source is about as close to the GW design team as an outsider can be.

I dub thee 'Necrothread of everliving rumours'

Plastic Thawk just doesnt seem like the kind of thing they could keep under wraps... would be awesome though -

Ah, the old 'plastic Thunderhawk' chestnut...

That's the only rumor harder to kill than this rumor thread!

I don't know about that one, I keep hearing these things about Dark Eldar finally coming around..

MajorTom11 wrote:I dub thee 'Necrothread of everliving rumours'

Plastic Thawk just doesnt seem like the kind of thing they could keep under wraps... would be awesome though -

The honking huge giant Goblin Spider begs to differ about 'the kind of thing they could keep under wraps'

We heard about that ages ago! It was no surprise to me at all lol

Breotan wrote:I don't know about that but the current FW Raven looks like one of the old Reaver Jet Bikes with wings and an additional pair of guns. Really aweful. One of their worst models. It looks like something from the old 60's Batman TV show.

meh, we're all entitled to our own opinions i guess but i like it

MajorTom11 wrote:We heard about that ages ago! It was no surprise to me at all lol

We heard about it, but we never saw it.

'Twas the point I was making Tom!

Plastic thunderhawk makes a lot more sense if you buy a FW one. You'll then realize how awful, old and damaged their molds are getting

Might be a way to just replace the resin molds without simply remaking them

Also on the subject of FW, I think they should issue a public apology for that DE flier which was indeed simply 2 jetbikes smashed together

Forge World apologizes to no one!

...Except me, because I seriously must be funding their Xenos lines single-handedly in upgrading my Cadians :-/

Kanluwen wrote:

MajorTom11 wrote:We heard about that ages ago! It was no surprise to me at all lol

We heard about it, but we never saw it.

'Twas the point I was making Tom!

"'Twas"?

WTF?

Plastic Thunderhawks are the freakin' Jeresy Devil/Bigfoot/Chupacabra/Chullachaqui/Abominable Snowman/etc. of the GW rumor world...

All I gotta say is..Since Duke Nukem forever is coming out then anything is possible

Kirasu wrote:All I gotta say is..Since Duke Nukem forever is coming out then anything is possible

THAT is a very good point!

Alpharius wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

MajorTom11 wrote:We heard about that ages ago! It was no surprise to me at all lol

We heard about it, but we never saw it.

'Twas the point I was making Tom!

"'Twas"?

WTF?

Plastic Thunderhawks are the freakin' Jeresy Devil/Bigfoot/Chupacabra/Chullachaqui/Abominable Snowman/etc. of the GW rumor world...

No, plastic Dark Eldar were

And look, we caught them!

I dunno, the spider rumors were substantial and from multiple sources and stated as certainty's from all of them. I never once though 'ya right theyll make a giant spider... maybe in 10 years' lol

I dunno, different tone of rumor to me, less 'wishy'. I still call plastic Thunderhawk and Warhound as Chupacabra class rumoring, but I would be most happy to be proven wrong!

I call plastic Thunderhawk/Warhound as far more likely than most people think.

The molds have gotten old and worn out--just simply from the fact that they are big sellers. It's pretty much a guaranteed win if they release those two kits in plastic.

The Thunderhawk is used by both Chaos and Loyalists, with Chaos even using the same equipment on them. The only thing they'd need is alternate door symbols.

Put a timeframe on your predictions, then things will be interesting!

Why? I don't have an inside track or anything. I'm just guesstimating.

However, if I had to put down a real timeframe?

I'd say Thunderhawk this year for the 'Summer of Flyers', Warhound with an 'Updated Apocalypse' expansion.

Well at the end of the day,all I care about is there might be a new Chaos model.

The big question is, can I justify getting a T-hawk model? How can I, a non-Marine player press it into service? Looks like Rogue Trader is the perfect excuse yet again.

BrookM wrote:The big question is, can I justify getting a T-hawk model? How can I, a non-Marine player press it into service? Looks like Rogue Trader is the perfect excuse yet again.

Nah. You don't even have to go that far...

The Inquisition maintains fleets of Thunderhawks...

slap a railgun or two on it and call I can call it a Gue'vesa vehicle...

I said Rogue Trader, not Dark Heresy.

How much would a plastic GW TH cost? £200?
I doubt it, though. Apparently the highlight of the SOF is the stormraven, and if a TH was made, THAT would definitely be the highlight.
Shrike remains hopeful yet doubtful.

shrike wrote:How much would a plastic GW TH cost? £200?
I doubt it, though. Apparently the highlight of the SOF is the stormraven, and if a TH was made, THAT would definitely be the highlight.
Shrike remains hopeful yet doubtful.

Shrike should not talk about himself in the third person...

As for pricing, I'm thinking GW won't go above US$199, and probably would want to be closer to $149.

Kanluwen wrote:Why? I don't have an inside track or anything. I'm just guesstimating.

However, if I had to put down a real timeframe?

I'd say Thunderhawk this year for the 'Summer of Flyers', Warhound with an 'Updated Apocalypse' expansion.

Summer eh? Ballsy guesstimate son, very ballsy!

I hope you are right!

Although the StormRaven seems like a touch of a waste if they were just going to introduce the t-hawk 4 months later...

BrookM wrote:I said Rogue Trader, not Dark Heresy.

My bad, I thought you were trying to come up with a way to use 'em in 40k.

But it could definitely work for Rogue Trader.

Shrike wrote:How much would a plastic GW TH cost? £200?
I doubt it, though. Apparently the highlight of the SOF is the stormraven, and if a TH was made, THAT would definitely be the highlight.
Shrike remains hopeful yet doubtful.

Yeah...because the highlight of the Summer of Flyers...was released in the Winter.

Considering we've gotten no "official" mention of it yet, there's still plenty of time to laud the Thunderhawk.

Clap your hands in unison and like Tinkerbell, the Thunderhawk will live...or at least the rumor about it will continue to live.

I'd love one. I don't know where I'd keep a model that large, I already have trouble with all my Baneblades and now Stompas too, but I'd definitely get a Thunderhawk or two.

MajorTom11 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Why? I don't have an inside track or anything. I'm just guesstimating.

However, if I had to put down a real timeframe?

I'd say Thunderhawk this year for the 'Summer of Flyers', Warhound with an 'Updated Apocalypse' expansion.

Summer eh? Ballsy guesstimate son, very ballsy!

I hope you are right!

Warhound, bear in mind, I give no guesstimate on. Just something that it'd be tied to release with

But yeah. The Thunderhawk would definitely be something I could see released with this supposed 'Summer of Flyers'.

Although the StormRaven seems like a touch of a waste if they were just going to introduce the t-hawk 4 months later...

See, I don't think it's a waste. It's a Codex model, and it definitely seems that since the Tyranid Codex and the reaction that players gave to having to convert some of the 'bigger options', that there's now going to be a priority to make models for things that aren't necessarily going to be a 'one-off character' within an army.

Besides that:
The Stormraven is something that's small enough to be introduced as a kind of counterpart to the Valkyrie. Any bigger and it would steal the Thunderhawk's...well, thunder.

The Thunderhawk is a superheavy--while the Stormraven is in a weight class that allows it to be fielded for 'normal' 40k games. There's a big difference just for that simple reasoning, I think. Add to it that releasing the Thunderhawk would effectively cater to both Loyalist and Chaos players--you've definitely got something that could be selling big numbers.

It would also cater to the addicts who buy cool models with no intention of even putting it together or playing with it

Plastic t-haw woudl be nice......can't se it workgin in a Chaos army fluff-wise though (willign to be proved wrong obviously).


Now a plactic Warhound...... all my IW just jumped for joy.

Praxiss wrote:Plastic t-haw woudl be nice......can't see it working in a Chaos army fluff-wise though (willing to be proved wrong obviously).

Thunderhawks are, essentially, "mass-produced". Every Legion was in the process of being issued huge numbers of them to replace Stormbirds during the Horus Heresy.

Add to it that, much like Rhinos, they're rugged craft that are simple to repair and you've got a recipe for something that Chaos would love to get their hands on.

Kirasu wrote:It would also cater to the addicts who buy cool models with no intention of even putting it together or playing with it

Come on now, we always have the intention of doing it

MajorTom11 wrote:I dunno, the spider rumors were substantial and from multiple sources and stated as certainty's from all of them. I never once though 'ya right theyll make a giant spider... maybe in 10 years' lol

I dunno, different tone of rumor to me, less 'wishy'. I still call plastic Thunderhawk and Warhound as Chupacabra class rumoring, but I would be most happy to be proven wrong!

While I agree w/ you about the Chupacabra point, I will point out that there were a lot of people that didn't initially believe the giant spider rumors, even after 'sneak peeks' were seen in various publications.

I call plastic Thunderhawk/Warhound as far more likely than most people think.

The molds have gotten old and worn out--just simply from the fact that they are big sellers. It's pretty much a guaranteed win if they release those two kits in plastic.

The Thunderhawk is used by both Chaos and Loyalists, with Chaos even using the same equipment on them. The only thing they'd need is alternate door symbols.

Resin molds for each of those kits would only cost a couple thousand dollars each, max (much less, in the magnitude of only a couple hundred dollars, if they do it themselves). Compare this to about 100,000+ dollars for each set of plastic molds.

Here's some more tripe/gospel (take your pick) to fight over.

Stickmonkey wrote:Some updates.

First, let me apologize for being dark. I have been negotiating a carreer move and it looks like it will happen. More on that down the road. But I am looking for a home in Texas...yee haw, back to the states.

To the business at hand, this is what I know.

The "summer of flyers" (again, temper this name, it's not much more than spearhead was) article in wd if it happens will be an apoc expansion...not basic game. To include formations, special strategies, etc. About what anyone would expect.

The specific plastics for the wave release passed QA. Yeah! And include the following

Ig hydra
De r-wing
Ork copta
Nid harpy
There may be a few other surprises. It is apoc after all.

However, no one seems to be certain if these items will be released together as a wave right now. There is a lot of back and forth as to how best to put them out...flyer related dump, or wait and do army based updates, meaning a ig wave, a de wave, etc. There is strong desire to complete the de models before the next codex release after GK. I don't think it's possible based on where some of the outstanding models are in the process...and what has to be done for that codex. Only so many people to do the work. You can't put 3 women together and get a baby in 3 months, right?

No craft world eldar models will be included here. And there is a reason for it, but I can't go into it yet. And no codex on immediate horizon, to keep people from getting excited...

Also, the de void flyer will not make a summer debut...its a big model...comparatively, and there are other challenges facing it...but it is coming eventually, hopefully before fall.

My information comes direct this time, but the decisions about what and when to release things I am not privy to...wd will already be set in stone by now and so someone(s) already knows what is and isn't happening in this, just not I...

Cheers. Hopefully this is more exact information certain individuals want to see. But as always, subject to change.

Stickmonkey wrote:Some updates.

First, let me apologize for being dark. I have been negotiating a carreer move and it looks like it will happen. More on that down the road. But I am looking for a home in Texas...yee haw, back to the states.

To the business at hand, this is what I know.
...
There may be a few other surprises.
...
However, no one seems to be certain if these items will be released together.
...
There is a lot of back and forth
...
I don't think
...
I can't go into it yet.
...
hopefully
...
decisions about what and when to release things I am not privy to
...
knows what is and isn't happening in this, just not I...
...
Hopefully this is more exact information certain individuals want to see. But as always, subject to change.

yep, quite precise.
I know I cut it a load, but from what I've heard stickmonkey is about as reliable as the warp.

Ragging on stickmonkey will soon be an Olympic Sport...

Lol, gotta love it though!

Villagers rant - 'WHERE ARE ZEE RUMAHS!?!?!?'

Unsuspecting Innocent/ Evil Mastermind submits rumours

Villagers rant - 'WE NO LIKES DEEZ RUMAHS! YOU MAKE THE LIES AND THE FAKES!'

Exciting hilarity ensues as villagers proceed to chase rumor poster benny-hill style through the streets, torches in one hand, vitriol in their mouths, hate in their hearts and still warm human poop ready for launch in the other hand.

P.s I have Tiger Blood.

Alpharius wrote:Ragging on stickmonkey will soon be an Olympic Sport...

You mean it isn't already?!

Stickmonkey wrote:No craft world eldar models will be included here. And there is a reason for it, but I can't go into it yet. And no codex on immediate horizon, to keep people from getting excited...

Craftworld Eldar being Squatted! You heard it here first!

Glad to hear we'll finally be getting some plastic hydras. Bout friggin' time.

chaos0xomega wrote:

I call plastic Thunderhawk/Warhound as far more likely than most people think.

The molds have gotten old and worn out--just simply from the fact that they are big sellers. It's pretty much a guaranteed win if they release those two kits in plastic.

The Thunderhawk is used by both Chaos and Loyalists, with Chaos even using the same equipment on them. The only thing they'd need is alternate door symbols.

Resin molds for each of those kits would only cost a couple thousand dollars each, max (much less, in the magnitude of only a couple hundred dollars, if they do it themselves). Compare this to about 100,000+ dollars for each set of plastic molds.

While resin molds for each of those kits would be cheaper--plastic versions would be a good idea. Warhounds and Thunderhawks are two of the most popular pieces from Forge World, and having plastic versions makes the same amount of sense that they used in making the Valkyrie, Skyray, and Piranhas plastic.

* and shadowswords.
I reckon they should do a conversion kit so you could buy bits to turn a shadowsword into a plasma blastgun.

Kanluwen wrote:Forge World apologizes to no one!

...Except me, because I seriously must be funding their Xenos lines single-handedly in upgrading my Cadians :-/

Good one, Kanluwen. I was looking for a new sig anyway.

Plasma blastgun? I would pay £10 quid for that badboy.

MajorTom11 wrote:P.s I have Tiger Blood.

Bah!

I will fit in with the Summer of Flyers, because I'm an F-18!!!!!!!

Ya well I'm an F18 piloted by a Vatican high priest assassin warlock who flies while simultaneously banging out 7 gram rocks, cause that's how I roll!

That is alot of expected releases....at the rate 40k releases things coupled with the rumors of grey knights, necrons, and the promise that they will have 95% of DE units in the codex available in the next year....i heavily doubt any of this materializes :(

MajorTom11 wrote:Ya well I'm an F18 piloted by a Vatican high priest assassin warlock who flies while simultaneously banging out 7 gram rocks, cause that's how I roll!

Boom...Winning

Bi-Winning!

Back OT, ya, if they deliver on everything that is rumored to be in the pipe for this year... Wow... way to go GW! Hoping for the best, prepared for the worst lol

My hope is plastic Hydras. God that would rule. After the ordeal of the FW Hydra, plastic is the only way.

A plastic Thunderbolt would be quite nice as well.

Really it only makes sense that SM would get a Thunderhawk fluff wise.... They're clearly not only used in huge apocalypse battles... but you'd have to make it like a bagillion points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Element206 wrote:That is alot of expected releases....at the rate 40k releases things coupled with the rumors of grey knights, necrons, and the promise that they will have 95% of DE units in the codex available in the next year....i heavily doubt any of this materializes :(

Yeah.... I'm afraid that I have to agree with that. With the rate GW comes out with stuff I can see Greyknights.... Necrons... and maybe Dark Eldar flyers. That's it. :(

Iandroid wrote:Really it only makes sense that SM would get a Thunderhawk fluff wise

I agree. You can already copypasta the rules for titans and baneblades into Chaos, while Chaos have their own unique flyers in the Hell Blade and Hell Talon. Thunderhawk is the only super-heavy and the only flyer for Marines, it should stay that way.

Iandroid wrote:but you'd have to make it like a bagillion points.

They already are, coming in at 900 points base. I've had mine for upwards of two years and only used it three times as its so expensive that it is difficult to take in Apocalypse even, especially when Tau and Eldar have better equipped super-heavy flyers buzzing around for less points. The Thunderhawk is a transport though which is where some of its points come from but the price tag is just so high it is difficult to fit it in if you aren't doing a truly huge Apocalypse game.

I’m really hoping for some Tau fliers…. Maybe a Barracuda (that would be very nice)
Getting something for the SM would be nice too…. The Storm Raven turned out to be a nice addition and with a little modification is a cool model….

'Getting something for the SM would be nice too'

Marines get too much already

I could see a plastic Thunderhawk, for apocalyse, but imagine the LOS blocking you could do with that thing

I can't see a plastic thunderhawk. They're not going to be releasing a plastic $300 model anytime soon.

Ascalam wrote:Marines get too much already

Astartes (Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Black Templar, and Codex Chapters) have a lot of goodies but they are the most neglected in Apocalypse, except for Dark Eldar which will likely change rapidly. As far as unique Apocalypse toys, Marines have the Thunderhawk. Look at their Forge World section, its all alternate versions of Land Raiders and rhino chassis vehicles. The only truly original models that Marines get from Forge World are the Thunderhawk (Transporter too) and the Caestus Assault Ram. When Marines play Apocalypse, they are forced to either just mass regular units in formations or use Titans/Baneblades.

So in regular 40K, Marines (and maybe IG) get far too much attention. In Apocalypse, Marines get shunned while IG, Orks, Eldar, Tau, and others have many options to expand their collection with models that match the styling of their 40K force. As far as gameplay, Marines are a very powerful set of codices so that isn't a problem. In short, the substance is fine but the style is pitiful.

SonicPara wrote:

Ascalam wrote:Marines get too much already

Astartes (Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Black Templar, and Codex Chapters) have a lot of goodies but they are the most neglected in Apocalypse, except for Dark Eldar which will likely change rapidly. As far as unique Apocalypse toys, Marines have the Thunderhawk. Look at their Forge World section, its all alternate versions of Land Raiders and rhino chassis vehicles. The only truly original models that Marines get from Forge World are the Thunderhawk (Transporter too) and the Caestus Assault Ram. When Marines play Apocalypse, they are forced to either just mass regular units in formations or use Titans/Baneblades.

So in regular 40K, Marines (and maybe IG) get far too much attention. In Apocalypse, Marines get shunned while IG, Orks, Eldar, Tau, and others have many options to expand their collection with models that match the styling of their 40K force. As far as gameplay, Marines are a very powerful set of codices so that isn't a problem. In short, the substance is fine but the style is pitiful.

GW's approach to Astares in Apocalypse is quite fitting. In fact, it is so subtle, most marine players completely miss it.

The Emperor's Angels of Death need not godmachines or huge tanks. They have tactical dreadnought armor to allow them to weather the worst a titan or daemon can hurl at them while smiting it quickly and easily (titan hammer squads). They can out maneuver any other army with easy and a little help from the wise dreadnoughts (dreadnought assault granting flank march). They also get the ability to fly across the field in a thunderhawk and do it all in a more blunt obvious way.

The Astares don't need a blue armored An'ggrath, just creativity.

Oh, I missed the point. Everyone should get some new plastic kit they only get to pull out once in a great while. This was not a comment about combat effectiveness as that would be silly.

the_trooper wrote:GW's approach to Astares in Apocalypse is quite fitting. In fact, it is so subtle, most marine players completely miss it.

The Emperor's Angels of Death need not godmachines or huge tanks.

Oh I agree whole-heartedly. I just get bothered when people bring their general bias against Marines and their releases over to Apocalypse where really, Marines are totally neglected as far as fancy new kits go. That is all I was attempting to state.

Being reasonable will get you nowhere fast on a Warhammer forum.

SonicPara wrote:

Astartes (Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Black Templar, and Codex Chapters) have a lot of goodies but they are the most neglected in Apocalypse, except for Dark Eldar which will likely change rapidly. As far as unique Apocalypse toys, Marines have the Thunderhawk. Look at their Forge World section, its all alternate versions of Land Raiders and rhino chassis vehicles. The only truly original models that Marines get from Forge World are the Thunderhawk (Transporter too) and the Caestus Assault Ram. When Marines play Apocalypse, they are forced to either just mass regular units in formations or use Titans/Baneblades.

So in regular 40K, Marines (and maybe IG) get far too much attention. In Apocalypse, Marines get shunned while IG, Orks, Eldar, Tau, and others have many options to expand their collection with models that match the styling of their 40K force. As far as gameplay, Marines are a very powerful set of codices so that isn't a problem. In short, the substance is fine but the style is pitiful.

I would counter that by directing your attention to the necron section of the FW website, check out the 2 items on there! WOOHOO!!!!

Oh wow, I totally forgot about Necrons. As far as new toys go, Marines and Necrons are tied at 2. Marines have lots of wargear kits though so it seems way better then the Necrons.

Now that I think about it, why hasn't Forge World ever made a kit for that super Monolith in Apoc Reload? It would be a pretty simple conversion kit to make the staple unit of the Necrons have a little variety.

Because no-one at corporate HQ gives a crud about Necrons ?


I'd love to see a mega-monolith, or a plastic Pylon kit..

What i'd like even more would be a necron vehicle that had a hope of reaching the other side of an APOC battlefield before the crack of doom (barring DS monoliths)..

Ascalam wrote:Because no-one at corporate HQ gives a crud about Necrons ?


I'd love to see a mega-monolith, or a plastic Pylon kit..

What i'd like even more would be a necron vehicle that had a hope of reaching the other side of an APOC battlefield before the crack of doom (barring DS monoliths)..

I sincerely don't see appeal in the Necron superheavies. Pylon is REALLY boring, and a mega monolith is just a slightly larger monolith. If they got redesigned they could be cool, but damn the current pylon (and conversions I've seen of the mega-monolith) are boring.

SonicPara wrote:

Ascalam wrote:Marines get too much already

Astartes (Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Black Templar, and Codex Chapters) are the most neglected in Apocalypse

get a fellblade. ^^

shrike wrote:get a fellblade. ^^

Oh man, I would love a fellblade in either plastic or resin. Now that Forge World has dabbled in Heresy Era stuff maybe we will see one in the coming years.

Plastic Hydra would be awesome for my traitor guard - that kit would give me the guns to go on my Ork trukk bodies, and the chassis I'm using for traitor tanks!

Fellblades:

Blood Angels - http://apocalypse40k.blogspot.com/2010/12/fellblades-of-tom-mcbride.html

Imperial Fists - http://apocalypse40k.blogspot.com/2011/02/tom-mcbride-model-maker-extraordinaire.html

He sells the kits to make them. My parts are on the way for the Blood Angels one.

Or better yet:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/326420.page

And what does all that have to do with "Summer of Flyers"? Not a thing. This thread is dead, again.

Captain Ventris over at Warseer posted the working name of this expansion:

40K Expansion: Wartorn Skies-July(...)
Yes, 40K Expansion: Wartorn Skies will be an expansion supposedly done as a White Dwarf Expansion similar to Spearhead however will have actual models released with it.

Wartorn Skies is the working name for the expansion and will likely be kept, but as its a White Dwarf expansion, they can easily change it out before going to the printer...

Fits with 2nd wave Dark Eldar in June, which should include the flyers in June or July.

Here a nice most probably faked box art for a possible Thunderbolt floating the internet for some time:



BTW I updated the first post to include all rumour quotes.

Stop tormenting me, Kroothawk! I want that second wave already.... AND the Thunderbolt.

Sick fake-box though.

It is a fake, an old April's Fools joke from a Polish or Russian site.

But a well designed fake.

I would love to have access to Tau remora and any other drones as I am hoping that Drones take a bigger role in the next codex.

Stormrider wrote:My hope is plastic Hydras. God that would rule. After the ordeal of the FW Hydra, plastic is the only way.

A plastic Thunderbolt would be quite nice as well.

This. Plastic > Resin when it comes to the recent shoddy casting and packaging by FW.

Seriously, when you pay that much for a cast, and it arrives full of air bubbles or bent out of shape, why pay at all?

On the topic of Tau... I love the way their vehicles are very 'aquatic'

If that's a fake box, it could have fooled me. Looks awesome, and I'd definitely pick one up.

I'm continuing to hold out hope...but who knows? We'll just have to wait a nother couple months to see.

Kroothawk wrote:Captain Ventris over at Warseer posted the working name of this expansion:

40K Expansion: Wartorn Skies-July(...)
Yes, 40K Expansion: Wartorn Skies will be an expansion supposedly done as a White Dwarf Expansion similar to Spearhead however will have actual models released with it.

Wartorn Skies is the working name for the expansion and will likely be kept, but as its a White Dwarf expansion, they can easily change it out before going to the printer...

Fits with 2nd wave Dark Eldar in June, which should include the flyers in June or July.

Here a nice most probably faked box art for a possible Thunderbolt floating the internet for some time:



BTW I updated the first post to include all rumour quotes.

The picture wouldn't load, could someone repost it?

This. Plastic > Resin when it comes to the recent shoddy casting and packaging by FW.

Seriously, when you pay that much for a cast, and it arrives full of air bubbles or bent out of shape, why pay at all?

On the topic of Tau... I love the way their vehicles are very 'aquatic'

Agreed.. FW lately has been using extremely poor casting techniques that required one of my friends to spend 30 hours "fixing" his thunderhawk

The issues are the molds are old as hell.. and FW uses low quality resin (despite forcing us to pay high quality prices).. I wish they'd just scrap those molds, i mean come on it can't be that expensive to make a newer resin mold.. Its resin for crying out loud, not diamonds

Im to the point where I wont even buy old FW models such as the warhound or thunderhawk.. my eldar stuff was *alright* but still warped

I actually had only minor warpage with my Warhound...all the important bitz were fine, and fit together perfectly well. The minor warpage there was was easily fixed with some good ol' warm water.

That boxart is friggin great! I'll take three!

[quote=Kroothawk

Illumini wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:

The Rising Sun is back!

I want many, please GW, make this happen

What would be awsome. Although I want some of the bombers from Soulstorm.

Kirasu wrote:

This. Plastic > Resin when it comes to the recent shoddy casting and packaging by FW.

Seriously, when you pay that much for a cast, and it arrives full of air bubbles or bent out of shape, why pay at all?

On the topic of Tau... I love the way their vehicles are very 'aquatic'

Agreed.. FW lately has been using extremely poor casting techniques that required one of my friends to spend 30 hours "fixing" his thunderhawk

The issues are the molds are old as hell.. and FW uses low quality resin (despite forcing us to pay high quality prices).. I wish they'd just scrap those molds, i mean come on it can't be that expensive to make a newer resin mold.. Its resin for crying out loud, not diamonds

Im to the point where I wont even buy old FW models such as the warhound or thunderhawk.. my eldar stuff was *alright* but still warped

Even the newer smaller stuff I have purchased recently made me want to puke. super high quality art.. bad casting
when you haev an air bubble on the little stuff it means parts are missing
but we digress... Give me a hell talon!

+1 to everything Scottywan82 said.

logg_frogg wrote:

Kirasu wrote:

This. Plastic > Resin when it comes to the recent shoddy casting and packaging by FW.

Seriously, when you pay that much for a cast, and it arrives full of air bubbles or bent out of shape, why pay at all?

On the topic of Tau... I love the way their vehicles are very 'aquatic'

Agreed.. FW lately has been using extremely poor casting techniques that required one of my friends to spend 30 hours "fixing" his thunderhawk

The issues are the molds are old as hell.. and FW uses low quality resin (despite forcing us to pay high quality prices).. I wish they'd just scrap those molds, i mean come on it can't be that expensive to make a newer resin mold.. Its resin for crying out loud, not diamonds

Im to the point where I wont even buy old FW models such as the warhound or thunderhawk.. my eldar stuff was *alright* but still warped

Even the newer smaller stuff I have purchased recently made me want to puke. super high quality art.. bad casting
when you haev an air bubble on the little stuff it means parts are missing

That's why I'm convinced some of my recent FW purchases from eBay are fakes. The casting was just too damn good to have actually been from FW. There were no air bubbles or other flaws in the cast, and nothing was warped!
I've been wanting a thunderhawk for years, but FW's quality has kept me from doing so. If the Summer of Flyers rumors are true, I'd gladly build a plastic Imperial Navy force.

I just received my Thunderhawk from FW today. I had only one part that was messed up and needs to be replaced. Almost the entire kit was straight without any warping. Overall, I'm very impressed with the quality. I'm wondering if they recently made a new mold....

I've made 3 orders with FW in the past 2 months and everything was amazing, only a few air bubbles and 2 warpage issues.

t-hawk wrote:I just received my Thunderhawk from FW today. I had only one part that was messed up and needs to be replaced. Almost the entire kit was straight without any warping. Overall, I'm very impressed with the quality. I'm wondering if they recently made a new mold....

Reported as troll account.

"t-hawk" commenting on his FW Thunderhawk

4 posts total.

Joined today.

Yeh... either a FW employee or someone attempting to be smart.

If you were a FW employee with positive news like new molds, why not just say you are a FW employee and say "Hey, i work at FW and we've recently got a new 'Hawk mold, so if you order now it will be perfect".



Rude comment removed.