17901
Post by: Vhalyar
Rumour Summary (v.2.4 - Updated 02/17)
Keep in mind that nothing is official until GW says it is. This is what we know for certain:
- The release date is sometime in April 2011 (Incoming! Article)
- The Stormraven is a unit in the codex (White Dwarf, back of the Stormraven box)
- There is a large unit that is seemingly called the Dreadknight (Leaked pictures of the unit)
- The leaks are a bit dated it seems. It's quite possible that some point costs, options and whatever else could change.
There are three leaked pictures:
- Army Overview
- Codex Cover Snippet
- The Dreadknight
The rest of the summary is broken down so:
- Grey Knights Special rules
- Wargear
- Psychic Powers
- Army List
- Unconfirmed Details
- Unknown Details
- Sources
Grey Knight Special Rules:
Aegis: Psykers targeting a squad with Aegis suffer -1 Ld.
Reinforced Aegis: Psykers targeting a squad is within 12" of a Venerable Dreadnought suffer -4 Ld.
And They Shall Know No Fear: Same as C: SM.
Combat Squads: Same as C: SM.
Psyker Pilots: Vehicles have Ld 10 for purposes of using powers. A Perils of the Warp results in a glancing hit.
Brotherhood of Psykers: The Justicar or Knight of flame's Ld is used to cast powers. Similarly, Perils of the Warp and other attacks that specifically target psykers are resolved against the Justicar or Knight of Flame. If neither is alive or the unit is composed of similar models, such as Terminator Squads, then a random model is used each time. Independent Characters cannot lend their Ld to a unit for the purpose of casting powers.
Psyker Mastery Levels: Character can use 1 psychic power per turn for each level (so 2 powers per turn at level 2).
Preferred Enemy: Demons
Wargear:
Nemesis Force Weapons: *Seem* be power weapons, with the ability to turn one of them into a force weapon per turn. Very vague at this point.
Upgrades can be taken for any squad with nemesis force weapons:
Nemesis Force Swords: Default weapon for most units. Improve Invulnerable saves in assault by +1 - this effect could apply to every Nemesis weapon, but sources are weighting against this.
Nemesis Daemonhammer: +1 Strength (+? Points)
Nemesis Force Halberds: +1 Initiative. (+2 to +5 points depending on the unit)
Nemesis Falchions: Force Lightning Claws, taken only as pairs (+5 Points for the pair?)
Nemesis Warding Stave: Power weapon that conveys a 2++ Invulnerable save, only one per unit. (+20 to +25 points depending on the unit)
Storm-bolters: As Storm-bolters. [Needs to confirmed but they may act as a pistol (extra +1A) in assault...]
Daemonhammer: A thunderhammer with daemonbane.
Daemonbane: Re-roll to hit and wound against daemons.
Psycannon: Str 7 AP 4 36" Assault 2/Heavy 3, Rending.
Incinerator: Str 5 AP 4 Template, Rending.
Personal Teleporter: The unit moves as if it had a jump pack, but it's type does not actually change. In addition, once per game the unit may move (teleport, really) 30" though it cannot assault afterwards.
Psybolt Ammo: +1 S for Stormbolters. See Unconfirmed Details.
Psyk-Out Grenades: Reduce morale of the unit they assault.
Warp Stabilization Field: Negates Perils of the Warp on the model. (Vehicles/Dreadnoughts only)
Orbital Strike Relay: Seems to be similar to C: SM (50 points)
Psychic Powers:
Hammer Hand: +1 strength in Close Combat
Warp Quake: Any deepstriking unit that lands within 12" suffers automatic mishap.
Holocaust: S5 AP - Large Blast 12"
Quicksilver: Unit becomes Initiative 10
Warp-Rift: Template that auto removes models from play
The Summoning: A single friendly unit that is anywhere on the table is placed within 6" of the librarian and counts as deepstriking.
Smite: As C:SM
Might of Titan: Beginning of librarians assault phase. Unit within 6" gains +1 str and extra D6 armour pen vs vehicles. Bonus is cumulative with hammerhand.
The Shrouding: Opponents shooting phase. All units within 6" gain stealth (minimum 5+ cover in the open).
Mind Blades: Start of any assault phase. One enemy unit within 6" loses 1 toughness for the rest of the assault phase.
Vortex of Doom: As C:SM
Sanctuary: Enemy assault phase. Enemy units wishing to assault any Grey Knight within 12" of librarian must make a difficult AND dangerous terrain test.
Psychic Communion (Grandmaster and Captain only): Take a psychic test. If passed, you may modify any reserve rolls by + or -1.
Heroic Sacrifice (Brotherhood Champion only): In assault, when the champion dies take a psychic test. If passed, make one attack against any one model that was in B2B with him. If the attack hits, that model is instantly removed!
Cleansing Flame (Purifiers only): Start of any assault phase. All enemy models that are part of the same assault suffer a wound on a 4+ before any blows are struck with saving throws allowed. Casualties count towards combat resolution.
Astral Aim (Purgation Squad only): Shooting Phase. Unit and attached characters may fire at any unit in range and regardless of line of sight. Target automatically gets a 4+ cover save that cannot be modified.
Reconstruction (Techmarines only): Beginning of techmarine's movement. Re-roll any repair roll.
Fortitude (Vehicle only): At the start of Grey Knight player's turn, removes any shaken or stunned results.
Zone of Banishment(Captain Stern only): During Stern's assault phase. All models (friend, foe & even Stern) within 6" make a strength test or are removed from play. Daemons must re-roll passed tests.
I Shall Not Yield (Justicar Thawn only): Used when Justicar Thawn is killed. Acts as We'll Be Back on a 4+.
Army List
HQ
Special Characters:
Supreme Grandmaster - Lord Kaldor Draigo: WS7 BS6 S5 T5 W4 I5 A5 Ld10 Sv2+/3++ Points 275
Wargear: Titan Sword ( STR 10 vs demons and psykers), Storm Shield + Storm bolter(!), Frag, Krak, Psyk-out grenades
Special Rules: Independent Character, The Grand Strategy, Psychic Mastery 2, Eternal Warrior
Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand, Psychic Communion, Cleansing Flame
FOC CHANGES: Lord of Titan - Takes Paladins as troops.
Grand Master Mordrack: WS6 BS6 S4 T4 W4 I5 A4 Ld10 Sv2+/4++ 200 points
Wargear: Master-crafted Daemonhammer, Storm bolter, Orbital Strike Relay, Terminator Armour, Iron Halo
Special Rules:Psyker Level 1, The Grand Strategy, First to the Fray (If he deploys via Deepstrike, he and his unit arrive first turn and do not scatter)
Ghostly Bodyguard (Ghost Knights): Terminators with Stealth USR. If Mordrak suffers an unsaved wound, at the end of the phase roll a d3. If the result is equal to or greater than his remaining wounds a Ghost Knight appears. If the attack that caused the wound was at I5 or above then the newly arrived Ghost Knight can attack immediately. If Mordrak dies, the Ghost Knights also disappear.
Note that Mordrack must be accompanied by a minimum of one Ghost Knight and lacks the IC rule.
Ghost Knight: WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4(5) A2 Ld9 Sv2+/5++ Points 32
Squad Size: 1-10
Weapons: Nemesis Force Halberds or Nemesis Daemon Hammers (both free), (Storm Bolter, grenades unknown)
Options: Nemesis Falchions (+5/model), Nemesis Warding Stave, Psybolt ammo, Master Craft any weapon (+10 per model), Brotherhood Banner (+25), (more?)
Special Rules: Stealth, Psyker level - See Mordrack
Psychic Powers: See Mordrack
Brother Captain Stern: WS6 BS5 S4 T4 W3 I5 A3 Ld10 Sv2+/4++ 200 Points
Wargear: Nemesis Force Weapon, Storm bolter, Orbital Strike Relay, Terminator Armour, Iron Halo
Special Rules: Independent Character, Psychic Mastery 2, Strands of Fate (exactly the same as now)
Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand, Psychic Communion.
Castellan Garran Crowe: WS8 BS4 S4 T4 W2 I6 A* Ld10 Sv2+/4++ Points 150
Wargear: Blade of Antywr (close combat weapon that provide +1S & +1I and re-rolls in first round of cc), Artificer Armour; Frak, Krak, and Psyk-Out grenades, Storm Bolter; Iron Halo
Special Rules: Independent Character, Psychic Mastery 1, The Perfect Warrior (see Brotherhood Champion), Litanies of Hate, Master Swordsman (His CC attacks are Rending and Rend on a 4+)
Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand, Heroic Sacrifice, Cleansing Flame
FOC CHANGES: Brotherhood Champion of the Purifiers - Takes Purifiers as troops.
Inquisitor Corteaz: - DaemonHunter WS4 BS4 S4 T3 W3 I4 A3 Ld10 Sv2+ Points 100
Wargear: Master-crafted Daemonhammer with Daemonbane
Special Rules: Independent Character, Psychic Mastery 2
Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand, Sanctuary, Mind Blades
FOC CHANGES: Takes Henchman warbands as troops.
Inquisitor Karamazov - WitchHunter WS4 BS4 S5 T5 W4 I4 A3(4) Ld10 Sv2+
Wargear: Master-crafted Multi-melta, Master-crafted Powersword, Frag, krag, psyk-out and Rad(?) grenades, orbital strike relay
Special Rules: Independent Character, Relentless, Dread Reputation (units within 12' re-roll moral and pinning tests), By Any Means Cecessary (You may place Orbital Bombardment blasts over a friendly model. If you do so it does not scatter)
Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand, Sanctuary, Mind Blades
Inquisitor Valeria - XenoHunter: WS4 BS4 S3 T3 W3 I4 A3(5) Ld10 Sv3+(4++) Points 100
Wargear: Frag, Krak, & Psyk-Out Grenades, Graviton Pistol (Range: 12\" Strength: 10 AP: 1 Type: Pistol, One Shot), Runes of Destiny (All saves against her attacks must be re-rolled) Dagger of Midnight (+2A; use two separate dices, on a double the attacks hit her instead), Pokeball Hyperstone Maze (against MC or IC, roll d6 instead of attacking; if more than the target's remaining wounds the model is permanently removed)
Special Rules: Independent Character, Psychic Mastery 2, Stubborn,
Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand, Sanctuary, Mind Blades
Standard:
Grand Master: WS6 BS6 S4 T4 W3 I5 A3 Ld10 Sv2+/4++ Points 175
Wargear: Nemesis Force Weapon, Storm bolter, Orbital Strike Relay, Terminator Armour, Iron Halo
Options: Psycannon, Incinerator, Psilencer, Servo Skulls (Up to 3), Blind Grenades, meltabombs, digi weapons, psybolt ammo, empyrean brain mines, psychostroke grenades. Master-crafting.
Special Rules:Independent Character, Psyker Level 1
The Grand Strategy: Pick D3 Units and give them one of the following special ruler:
1. Hammer of Righteousness: Nominated unit re-rolls to wound rolls of 1 for the duration of the game
2. Shield of Blades: Target unit gets Counter Attack
3. Spear of Light: Target unit gets Scouts
4. Unyielding Anvil: Target unit gains Scoring
Note: All units receive the same benefits. In addition, only Grey Knights of the following type can receive The GRand Strategy: Infantry, Jump Infantry, Monstrous Creatures, Walkers. Excluded from this are the Ghost Knights.
Psychic Powers: Hammerhand, Psychic Communion
Brother Captain: WS6 BS5 S4 T4 W3 I5 A3 Ld10 Sv2+/4++ Points 150
Wargear: Nemesis Force Weapon, Storm bolter, Orbital Strike Relay, Terminator Armour, Iron Halo
Options: Psycannon, Incinerator, Psilencer, Servo Skulls (Up to 3), Blind Grenades, meltabombs, digi weapons, psybolt ammo, empyraen brain mines, psychostroke grenades. Master-crafting.
Special Rules: Independent Character, Psyker level 1.
Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand, Psychic Communion.
Brotherhood Champion : WS7 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I5 A* Ld10 Sv2+/4++ Points 100 (Chaplain+Emperor's Champion Combo!)
Wargear: Artificer Armour, Frag & Krag, Storm bolter, Nemesis Force Sword that re-rolls fails to wounds.
Options: Digital Weapons, Empyrean Mines, Psybolt ammo
Special Rules: Independent Character, Psyker Level 1, Titans Herald (Litanies of Hate)
The Perfect Warrior: Instead of an attack value he makes special cc attack ability, using one of the following:
1. Sword Storm: Makes one A on each model in B2B.
2. Blade Shield: Does not attack, but re roll failed saves.
3. Rapier Strike: Makes D3 Attacks (+1 if charged) at I10 but must be against an IC or MC.
Psychic Powers: Hammerhand, Heroic Sacrifice.
Librarian: WS5 BS4 S4 T4 W2 I4 A2 Ld10 Sv2+/4++ 150 Points
Wargear: Nemesis Force Weapon, Storm bolter, Orbital Strike Relay, Terminator Armour, Iron Halo
Options: Upgrade to Psyker Mastery 3 +50 points, Take additional psychic powers for +5 points each, Psychic Hood, can upgrade to any Nemesis Weapon (including Stave).
Special Rules: Independent Character, Psyker Mastery 2
Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand.
Inquisitor: WS4 BS4 S3 T3 W3 I4 A3 Ld10 Sv4+ 25 Pts
Types: Inquisitor must be of either Malleus, Hereticus or Xenos branch. The choice dictates his wargear.
Wargear: Power Weapon w/ Instant Death, Forcefield (enemy takes save vs wound or die) (And many, many more options)
Options: Upgrade to Psyker Mastery 1.
Special Rules: Stubborn, Independent Character, Henchmen Retinue (3-12)
Elites:
Inquisitorial Henchmen
Squad Size: 3-12
Composition: Can be composed of any of the following units:
Note: For each Inquisitor in the army, one henchmen Retinue can be taken. Corteaz removes this limit.
Arco Flagelant: ?
Wargear: Close Combat Weapon
Special Rules: Feel No Pain
Banisher: ?
Wargear: ?
Options: Eviscerator
Special Rules: Demons within 6" re-roll successful invulnerable saves.
Crusader: WS4 BS3 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld7 Sv4+/3++ ? Points
Wargear: Power Weapon, Carapace Armour, Storm Shield.
Options:?
Special Rules: ?
Demonhost: WS3 BS3 S4 T4 W1 I3 A1 Ld8 Sv5++ 20 Points
Wargear: Fearsome Claws and Runic Chains (CC weapons), Warp Shield (5+ Invulnerable Save)
Daemonic Power: Roll a d6 on the start of each of YOUR turns, all Daemonhosts in your unit gain one of the following until your next turn unless otherwise stated:
1. Re-Knit Host Form - Feel No Pain
2. Warp Grasp: No Armour saves against Daemonhost's CC attacks
3. Daemonic Speed: Fleet & I10
4. Warp Strength: Strength 6
5. Energy Torrent: Shooting attack: 24" S4 AP3 Assault 1, Blast
6. Unholy Gaze: Shooting Attack: 24" S8 AP- Assault 1
Deathcult Assassin: WS5 BS5 S4 T3 W1 I6 A2 Ld8 Sv5++ 15 Points
Wargear: 2 Power Weapons.
Options: ?
Special rules: Special Dodge (5++)
Servitor: ?
Wargear: Heavy Bolter or Multi-melta
Options: Up to 3 can be armed with Plasma Cannons
Special Rules: Mindlock without inquisitor
Jokaero Weaponsmith: WS4 BS3 S2 T3 W1 I3 A* Ld8 Sv5++ 35 Points?
Wargear: Weapon-creator (Lascannon, multi-melta, Heavy Flamer), Digital Weapons, Defence orb (5++)
Options: ?
Jokaero Ingenuity: Roll D6 each turn and add +1 starting at second turn. Bonus applies to squad:
1. No effect.
2. +12? range to all guns.
3. Armour saves improved by one.
4. All shooting weapons become rending
5. All models gain a 5+ invulnerable save
6. "The Works": Roll twice on the table and apply both results. No result can be taken twice.
Mystic: ?
Wargear: ?
Options: None
Special rules: Units do not scatter when deepstriking within 6".
Psyker: ?
Wargear: ?
Options: ?
Special Rules: Same as blast in IG Psyker Battle Squads.
Warrior Acolyte: WS? BS? S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld7 Sv4+ ? Points
Wargear: Laspistol and chainsword, carapace
Options: bolt gun, storm bolter, hot shot lasgun, combi weapon, power sword/or plasma pistol, storm shield, power fist, power armor, meltabombs
Special Rules: ?
Techmarine: WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld10 Sv2+ Points ?
Wargear: Nemesis Weapon, Frag Grenades, Krag Grenades.
Options: Conversion Beamer, Servo Skulls, Orbital Strike Relay, Psybolt ammo.
Special Rules: Psychic Mastery 1
Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand, Reconstruction
Purifier Squad: WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv3+ Points 24
Squad Size: 5 - ? / One model is upgraded to Knight of Flame for free (Stat difference unknown).
Wargear: Nemesis Force Swords, Power Armour, Storm Bolter, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades.
Options: Nemesis Force Halberdsw (+2 points/model), Psybolt ammo, Psilencer (free), Psycannon, Incinerator (free), Master-crafting (Knight of Flame only)
Special Rules: Psyker level 1
Psychic powers: Hammer Hand, Cleansing Flame
Venerable Dreadnought: WS6 BS4 S6 FRONT13 SIDE12 BACK10 I4 A3 Points 175
Wargear: ?
Options: ?
Special Rules: Psyker
Psychic Power: Fortitude
Paladin Squad
Paladin Terminator: WS5 BS4 S4 T4 W2 I4 A2 Ld10 Sv 2+/4++ Points 55
Squad Size: ? - ?
Weapons: Storm Bolter, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades, Nemesis Force Halberd. Two heavy weapon for every five models in the unit.
Options: Psyk-out grenades, Brotherhood Banner, Nemesis Force Weapon upgrades, Psycannon, Incinerators, Psylencers, Apothecary (+75 points, replaces one Paladin, grants FNP to unit), Psybolt Ammo, Master-crafting (+5 points).
Special Rules: Psyker Level 1, Paladins can be individually customized with wargear and weapons.
Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand, Holocaust
Assassin Profile: WS8 BS8 S4 T4 W2 I7 A4 Ld10 Sv 4++ Points: See temples below
Note: Can only field one of each temple.
Rules: Feel No Pain, Fleet, Fearless, Infiltrate, Uncanny Reflexes (4+ Invulnerable save)
Callidus 145 Points
Wargear:C\'Tan Phase Blade (Power Weapon w/ Instant Death), Neural Shredder (Template S8 AP 1 Pistol Hits are resolved against Leadership not Toughness)
Additional Special Rules: Hit and Run, Stealth, Polymorphine (When Callidus arrives from reserve, choose an enemy unit; they immediately take D6 S4 AP 2 hits. She does not scatter when DSing)
Culexus 135 Points
Wargear: Psyk-Out Nades, Psyocculum (Unaffected by Night Fight rules when targeting a psyker), Animus Speculum (12" S5 AP1 Assault 2. For every psyker within 12" of the assassin, add 2+ to the Speculum's assault value)
Additional Special Rules: Etherium: Any unit wishing to shoot or use a psychic power on the Culexus must pass an LD test on 3d6 (Vehicles are LD10). If the test is failed they can't target the assassin but can target others.
Eversor 130 Points
Wargear: Neuro Gauntlet (Lightning Claw), Executioner Pistol (12" S4 AP2 Pistol, Poisoned 2+), Meltabombs
Additional Special Rules: Frenzon: Gain d6 attacks on the turn they charge instead of 1, Furious Charge
Vindicare 145 Points
Wargear: Exitus Pistol: (12" S: X AP:1 Pistol, Sniper), Exitus Rifle (36" S:X AP: 1 Sniper, Heavy 1), Blind Grenades,
Options: Special Ammo: Must choose one of the following ammo types to shoot with every turn.
1. Hellfire: 2+ to wound.
2. Shieldbreaker: No damage, but permanently removes Invulnerable saves of target. This only applies to inv saves granted by items and wargear.
3. Turbo-Penetrator: Inflicts 2 wounds on any non-vehicle model wounded. Has penetration of 4D6 against vehicles!
Additional Special Rules: Move Through Cover, Stealth
Troops:
Grey Knight Terminator Squad
Grey Knight Terminator: WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 LD9 Sv2+/5++ 40 Points
Wargear: Storm Bolter, Nemesis Force Weapon, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades. One heavy weapon for every five models in the unit.
Options: Psybolt ammo, Psilencer, Psycannon, Incinerator, Master-crafting (Justicar only)
Special Rules: Psychic Mastery 1
Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand.
Special Upgrade Character - Justicar Thawn: WS5 BS5 S4 T4 W2 I5(6) A3 Ld10 Sv2+ ? Points
Wargear: Nemesis Force Halberd, Artificer Armour, Storm Bolter
Special Rules: Psychic Mastery 2.
Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand, I Shall Not Yield.
Grey Knights Strike Squad (Previously Power-Armoured Grey Knights)
Grey Knight: WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A1 LD8 Sv3+ 20 Points
Squad Size: 5 - ? / One model is upgraded to Justicar for free ( Ld 9).
Wargear: Storm Bolter, Nemesis Force Sword, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades. One heavy weapon for every five models in the unit.
Options: Nemesis Force Halberds (+5 points/model), Psycannon (10 points), Psilencer (free), Incinerator (20 points), Psybolts, Personal Teleporters (+6 points/model -> unit uses Fast Attack FOC slot).
Special Rules: Psyker Level 1
Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand, Warp Quake.
Dedicated Transports
Rhino 40 points
Special Rules: Psyker
Psychic Power: Fortitude
Units taken by: Strike Squads, Purgation Squads, Purifier Squads, Henchmen Warbands. Srike Squads with Teleporters can't go into/take a Rhino as a dedicated transport.
Razorback 45 points (Note: It seems that this entry has been copy/pasted out of the BA codex without modifications in the document that people have access to...)[i]
Special Rules: Psyker
Psychic Power: Fortitude
Units taken by: Strike Squads, Purgation Squads, Purifier Squads, Henchmen Warbands. Strike Squads with Teleporters can't go into/take a Razorback as a dedicated transport.
Chimera ?
Psychic Power: -
Units taken by: Only Henchmen Warbands.
Fast Attack:
StormRaven: 205 Points
Wargear: ?
Options: ?
Special Rules: Psyker, other abilities similar to the Blood Angel's version but with different names.
Psychic Power: Fortitude
Grey Knights Strike Squad (with Personal Teleporters)
Grey Knight: WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A1 LD8 Sv3+ 26 Points
Squad Size: 5 - ? / One model is upgraded to Justicar for free ( Ld 9).
Wargear: Storm Bolter, Nemesis Force Sword, Personal Teleporters. One heavy weapon for every five models in the unit.
Options: Nemesis Force Halberds (+5 points/model), Psycannon (10 points), Psilencer (free), Incinerator (20 points), Psybolts
Special Rules: Psyker Level 1
Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand, Warp Quake.
Heavy Support:
Purgation Squad
Grey Knight:WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A1 LD8 Sv3+ 20 Points
Squad Size: 5 - ? / One model is upgraded to Justicar ( Ld 9) for free.
Wargear: Storm Bolter, Nemesis Force Weapon, 4x Incinerators, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades
Options: Replace Incinerators with Psycannons at +20 points each or Psilencers for +10 points each.
Special Rules: Do not need line of sight.
Dreadnought WS4 BS4 S6 FRONT12 SIDE12 BACK10 I4 A2 Points 110
Wargear: ?
Options: ?
Special Rules: Psyker
Psychic Power:Fortitude
Nemesis Dreadknight: WS5 BS5 S7 T7 W4 I5 A3 Sv2+/4++ 135 Points
Note: Cannot be carried on a Stormraven.
Wargear: 2x Nemesis Dreadfists by default
[*] Heavy Psycannon - 40
[*] Gatling Psilencer - 35
[*] Heavy Incinerator - 30
[*] Nemesis Daemonhammer - 10
[*] Nemesis Greatsword - 25
[*] Personal Teleporter - 75
Special Rules: Monstrous Creature, Deepstrike, Psychic Mastery 1
Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand, Holocaust.
Land Raider (and variants, including redeemer)
Wargear: ?
Options: ?
Special Rules: Psyker
Psychic Power: Fortitude
Unconfirmed Details
* Stormbolters: Do they count as pistols?
* Nemesis Weapons: Power weapons? Force Weapons?
* Psybolt Ammo: +1 STR, ignore inv saves? Which/Both/Neither?
* Warp Stabilization Field: Which units have this beside Dreadnoughts?
* Psycannon: Are the stats accurate?
Unknown Details
* Psyflame Ammo
* Blind Grenades
* Psychostroke Grenades
* Rad grenades
* Empyrean Brain Mines
* True Silver Armor
* Servo-skulls
* Brotherhood Banner
* Psilencer/Gatling Psilencer stats
* Heavy Psycannon stats
* Heavy Incinerator stats
* Nemesis Greatsword stats
* Nemesis Doomfists stats
Sources
Dagmire and Katie Drake at Heresy Online, Marshal Augustine and Bestial Fury at Warseer, Kirasu at DakkaDakka, Commissar Ciaphas Cain at Bolter & Chainsword for the rumours.
Katie Drake at Heresy online for the leaked pictures.
Oiad at Bolter & Chainsword for making the actual summary.
I'm probably forgetting some people 
3933
Post by: Kingsley
Vhalyar wrote:Razorback:
Psychic Power: Fortitude
ph34r wrote:Coteaz - 150p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
1986p total
11
Post by: ph34r
Thanks for the summary, I'm sure newcomers will like seeing everything in once place.
17901
Post by: Vhalyar
Fetterkey wrote:
That's why I prefaced the OP with "this stuff doesn't come from the final version; wacky hijinks may result from it"
17376
Post by: Zid
Fetterkey wrote:Vhalyar wrote:Razorback:
Psychic Power: Fortitude
ph34r wrote:Coteaz - 150p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
1986p total
That'd be hella expensive to buy @_@ Not much fun to play against either :(
26025
Post by: Katie Drake
Just wanted to thank Dakka for crediting me. =) Lots of other sites aren't being so kind.
21202
Post by: Commander Endova
I really hope that there end up being some other things in Fast Attack. I get GW wants to sell more Storm Ravens, but, damn.
7910
Post by: Lurker
Few other questions you can probably add to the unconfirmed details (I'm sure as hell interested!):
- Weapon upgrades for Power Armoured Grey Knights (I.E. Halberd and hammer available for whole squad?... and costs?)
- Weapon upgrades for Grey Knight Terminators (I.E. Halberd and hammer available for whole squad?... and costs?)
34119
Post by: neil101
the Dreadknight looks interesting
30356
Post by: Jaon
As we were talking about in the previous thread: Mordrack and his ghost terminators are going to be the most competitve HQ choice I think, they arent a metric crapton of points, you really get what you pay for, they get a turn 1 no scatter DS (Grain of salt) and Mordrack still has "The Grant Stategy"
And hes only 25 points more than a regular GKGM. Only known downside is the terminators disappear when modrack dies, but when is he going to die first? When someone gets a bit to risky with the wound allocations to try get more termies maybe, but other than that, no downsides known (hopefully they can still take options..)
I will surely at least try him out. Many hope for him to have 4 wounds, but Im thinking 3 or even 2.
8471
Post by: olympia
Dreadknight and Dreadnought compete in the same FOC slot? Seems like the knight is the better choice by a long shot.
11
Post by: ph34r
olympia wrote:Dreadknight and Dreadnought compete in the same FOC slot? Seems like the knight is the better choice by a long shot.
And GW is releasing a new Dreadknight kit while there is no plastic GK Dreadnought kit. Coincidence? I think not
21148
Post by: KOS
Reinforced Aegis: Psykers targeting a squad within 12" of a Venerable Dreadnought suffer -4 Ld.
what about this ? I think it's totally useless, but who knows.
Looking at the GK now with all rumors toghether it seems that it's a good fluff army.... maybe overpowered, but the small numbers will make the sides even.
Has anyone tried for a 1500 points lists ? Many of those that I've seen in the old topic are all around 2000.
15829
Post by: Redemption
Jaon wrote:Only known downside is the terminators disappear when modrack dies, but when is he going to die first? When someone gets a bit to risky with the wound allocations to try get more termies maybe, but other than that, no downsides known (hopefully they can still take options..)
Well there are ways to snipe a single model out of a squad, like Vindicares or Sergeant Telion (although he'd have trouble killing him, even if he can target him). And of course there's the remove model from play shenanigans like Jaws of the World Wolf, the SW Trickster character or the rumoured Warp Rift or Zone of Banishment.
So yeah, you have a 1 in 3 chance of loosing your HQ and its entire retinue for every JOTWW. Fun with 3 JOTWW casting Rune Priest SW armies. 
Edit: Ow Mordrak has I5 ofc, which makes it a 1 in 6 chance.
11
Post by: ph34r
1/6 chance yeah, hopefully you can use your ghost terminators to take out a rune priest when you drop, and then try to make the other shots not hit you. You have to target a unit you can see with jaws, right?
30356
Post by: Jaon
Well, with a range of 24 you could drop out of its range, or place them in such a manner as so Modrack himself is actually behind LOS blocking cover, while the rest of the squad is firing. JOTWW has to literally touch a model in LOS to hit it doesnt it?
Also, same situation with vindicare...does the vindi need LOS or can he simply target the unit and choose who takes the wounds? Interesting. None the less I didnt say he was foolproof, hes damn good most of the time. You will always get the poor matchup now and then, which usually means you will have to use the rest of you army 
6987
Post by: Chimera_Calvin
Any chance someone could repost the pictures for the work-blocked?
5312
Post by: synack
Remember, that rune priests will be casting the power at Ld9 and not Ld10 anymore, which means if he's running 3 priests, probably only 2 will get powers off. Throw in a Librarian of your own, means you might only have to face 1 JoTWW
11
Post by: ph34r
Hmm, come to think of it, do we even know if anyone can take a psychic hood?
5312
Post by: synack
ph34r wrote:Hmm, come to think of it, do we even know if anyone can take a psychic hood?
I'm assuming librarians get one by default.
Speaking of which. If another MC joins Mordracks squad, do they get to deep strike in too and not scatter?
33586
Post by: Cerebrium
And just finished painting my Inquistor Lord and Vindicare in preparation
9504
Post by: sonofruss
Jaws goes through buildings and cover like they weren't even there.
Rune Priest psychic powers page 37 space wolves codex
As a psychic shooting attack, the rune priest may trace a straight line alomg the board starting from the rune priest and ending 24" away. This line may pass through terrain, monstrous creatures, beasts, bikes and infantry. Models touched by the line must take an initiative test if the model fails it is removed from play
17901
Post by: Vhalyar
Updated the OP, turns out there were lots of things missing, heh.
Lurker wrote:- Weapon upgrades for Power Armoured Grey Knights (I.E. Halberd and hammer available for whole squad?... and costs?)
- Weapon upgrades for Grey Knight Terminators (I.E. Halberd and hammer available for whole squad?... and costs?)
Strike Squads get Halberds at 5 pts/model. Purifiers get Halberds at 2pts/model. It's a everyone or no one upgrade
Terminators behave the same way, but no one's mentioned their weapon point costs I think. It's actually possible that like the Ghost Knights, they get either Halberds/Hammers for free, since Ghosts are supposed to be the same save for the Stealth USR.
I'm assuming librarians get one by default.
Speaking of which. If another MC joins Mordracks squad, do they get to deep strike in too and not scatter?
Psychic Hoods are only available to Librarians. No idea if they get it by default or have to cough up the points.
As for Mordrack, the better question is... can an IC actually join the unit in the first place? I have a feeling it's no.
Again on Mordrack, I wonder what kind of Terminator is spawned when he takes a wound; vanilla (like Tervigons) or similar to the rest of the unit?
what about this ? I think it's totally useless, but who knows.
To clarify Reinforced Aegis, the protective effect *seems* to be granted to units within the 12" bubble. A psyker could stand across the whole table, if he targets anyone within the Venerable's Reinforced Aegis he gets slapped with -4 Ld.
Just wanted to thank Dakka for crediting me. =) Lots of other sites aren't being so kind.
That would be quite silly of me since I actively post at HO
8452
Post by: sphynx
To hell with this, why remove Stormtroopers? they're even an integral part of the fluff...
EDIT: Warrior Acolytes eh? nevermind 
6987
Post by: Chimera_Calvin
Cheers, ph34r 
Is it just me, or do the chibis look less silly than they do with the BA colour scheme?
Mind you, the Dreadknight looks like Megatron, so its not all good 
411
Post by: whitedragon
Skeptical of the all Storm Trooper army led by Coteaz.
33586
Post by: Cerebrium
sphynx wrote:To hell with this, why remove Stormtroopers? they're even an integral part of the fluff...
EDIT: Warrior Acolytes eh? nevermind
Yep, seems you can give WAs Hellguns and and Carapace, basically remaking the old =][= stormtroopers.
(Also, can have power armour, bolters or flamers, which should mean SoB).
11
Post by: ph34r
Unfortunately there is apparently no BS upgrade for warriors, so your stormtroopers are stuck at BS3. Call it strenuous Inquisition mental conditioning or what have you.
38279
Post by: Mr Hyena
I wonder how they're gonna write Inquisitorial Stormtroopers out of the fluff...
*Suddenly! Grey Knights! Millions of them!*
33586
Post by: Cerebrium
I don't think they're write them out, but just replace them with warrior acolytes.
There's a reason the character that makes them troops is an Inquisitor, not a Grey Knight.
11
Post by: ph34r
Yeah. Still a bummer that they can't get BS4, otherwise they would be the perfect stormtroopers.
19057
Post by: oldone
First off thanks to OP for doing this, wanted to read a updated version without going through 20+ pages of comments.
Am i the only one who thinks that this is going to be space wolf.2 it seems really  but thats just because i probly end up facing these guys with my tyranids why didn't we get any awesome stuff like this.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Mr Hyena wrote:I wonder how they're gonna write Inquisitorial Stormtroopers out of the fluff...
The same way they write every army I play out of the fluff - just pretend they don't exist any more!!!
36143
Post by: snake
Excuse my  but that dreadknight is a huge disappointment. Hopefully its not a sign of the quality of the rest of the minis.
22802
Post by: MadCowCrazy
We got hit by the GW IP hammer over at Heresy, they wanted us to remove the pictures of the new GKs.
Have you guys received any such letters?
28669
Post by: Pedro Kantor
Some things that i find a little odd : A Rending Psycannon ? would this mean you have to take a psybolt upgrade ( if possible ) to remove invuns ? And a Xeno Weaponsmith that gives all shooty weapons Rending anyway,so why give it to a weapon that did'nt need changeing ( Imho ).I know its all rumours at such an early stage,its just bugging me more than it might because i like them a lot and look forward to building a small force of GK.
11
Post by: ph34r
H.B.M.C. wrote:Mr Hyena wrote:I wonder how they're gonna write Inquisitorial Stormtroopers out of the fluff...
The same way they write every army I play out of the fluff - just pretend they don't exist any more!!!
Hey H.B.M.C., I think you should take a chill pill on this one. Sure, we lose stormtroopers as a unit in name. In reality though, we get them back in the form of cheaper, more versatile carapace armor warriors, with all the crazy requisition for whatever weapons they want that really characterizes the inquisition. They lose 1 ballistic skill, but I think that is a small price to pay for what we gain. The henchmen unit entry alone is more varied than the piddly "+1 ld" "+1 bs" henchmen we had back in the old days. I for one embrace the new GK codex as the most fluff-capable Inquisition codex to date. Come on, new henchmen, improved henchmen, more access to henchmen, varying henchmen statlines, improved assassins, more inquisitors and special characters than you can shake a stick at. The only real loss is inducted IG, which I will admit does suck. Automatically Appended Next Post: Pedro Kantor wrote:Some things that i find a little odd : A Rending Psycannon ? would this mean you have to take a psybolt upgrade ( if possible ) to remove invuns ? And a Xeno Weaponsmith that gives all shooty weapons Rending anyway,so why give it to a weapon that did'nt need changeing ( Imho ).I know its all rumours at such an early stage,its just bugging me more than it might because i like them a lot and look forward to building a small force of GK.
I don't think any models in a henchman unit can take psycannon, anyway.
19809
Post by: Trevak Dal
Ultimate razor spam...more tanks than the Imperial Guard, so many you feel like you're playing apocalpyse...heavily onesided apocalypse...like you have all firewarriors against an entire army of...Abaddons. How distasteful. I've played against Razor Spam once-but how many is that-more than 10 razorbacks.
I'd wait until the guy finished unpacking all of the models, and bail on him.
If most of these rumors are true, I can see this being my favorite codex. I'll probabally never do a Paladin themed army, because of whats been said of their fluff sounds really awesome, and I'd only want 1 small unit of them. I'm going to be strike-squad heavy, with an equal number of terminators.
I'm also going to see if I can't make inquisitor Amberly Vail, and a Inquisitor Shepard with 10 henchmen modeled after my favorite Mass Effect/2 characters and model the chimera after the rover thing from ME1. I'm thinking my Callidus is going to be modeled after Sarah Kerrigan. Eversor is going to be Deadpool and Vindicare will be modeled after Nova.
This may be the one army that I actually build beyond my initial army-this may be the one I can actually play Apocalypse with (eventually)
23332
Post by: Daemon-Archon Ren
Trevak Dal wrote:More tanks than the Imperial Guard, so many you feel like you're playing apocalpyse...
Still remains to be seen, until I read a reliable source (aka, a picture from the demo-dex) that says "Inquisitorial Henchmen may take a Dedicated Trasport" I'll reserve my judgement...
All I am saying, is that people seem waaaaaaaaaay to invested in the idea that GW is planning on releasing a codex that will allow you to take models you already own(from IG of all places) and use better rules for them, and that this codex is the one based off of one of the previously "most expensive" armies in the game!
I mean c'mon people, do you REALLY think GW is gonna let you recycle all your IG stuff without having to buy the new Plastic Grey Knights?
Also, to help people differentiate between Rumors, and the Discussion about rumors, why not just have a rule for the N&R forums that requires rumors be in a certain format
such as:
This is a test rumor.
Just an Idea...
~DAR
686
Post by: aka_mythos
Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:Still remains to be seen, until I read a reliable source (aka, a picture from the demo-dex) that says "Inquisitorial Henchmen may take a Dedicated Trasport" I'll reserve my judgement...
...
I mean c'mon people, do you REALLY think GW is gonna let you recycle all your IG stuff without having to buy the new Plastic Grey Knights?
...
The Chimera is in the codex. I'm doubtful that its there for GK to use.
Its not GW letting you recycle your IG stuff. Its GW allowing Daemonhunter players to recycle their inducted IG units.
25360
Post by: ductvader
Have built some 2000 point lists with under 30 models that dont look awful...its a nice change of pace from my tyranid horde.
11
Post by: ph34r
It's *possible* that chimeras are only available to Inquisitors themselves, but that would put a 2 chimera limit on an army, which I doubt GW would want to do...
3330
Post by: Kirasu
Well based on the prerelease copy I got henchmen can take chimeras.. not inquisitors. So you can certainly spam them
As to the final version of the dex? I couldnt tell you.. But they tend not to change a whole lot esp when its already looking this finished
38857
Post by: VoidAngel
Jaon wrote:
And hes only 25 points more than a regular GKGM. Only known downside is the terminators disappear when modrack dies, but when is he going to die first?
Um...Vindicare? And if the 03 per slot rumor is true, his own codex can counter him in a turn?
686
Post by: aka_mythos
Not if my 3 vindcare kill your 3 vindicares first...? Idk... seems kinda silly to make those sorts of claims before the books out.
23332
Post by: Daemon-Archon Ren
aka_mythos wrote:The Chimera is in the codex. I'm doubtful that its there for GK to use.
There is the clause on Chimera that states that models in terminator armor count as 2 for Xport capacity, unless you can magically put Guardsmen in Termi armor ( IIRC the 5th edition dex doesnt let you do this), that clause was for when things like SM/ GKs are using Chimera.
@Kirasu, if the henchman profile is infact allowed to take Chimera, is there any restrictions on this (such as, the squad size must be X in # or less(/more)?
I mean, the fact that Inquisitors have been swapping from Hq/Elite/Both FOC slots every time these rumor threads pop-up is starting to cast a dark shadow over any of the "=I=" specific rumors in these threads (at least, as far as I am concerned).
Also, the fact that Henchmen seem to be their own entry in the elites section(and nothing suggests they don't use up a FOC slot) with the Inquitor proviso also seems off, sure they recently did this with the DeathCompany Dred, but the Court of the Archon worked VERY differently, and seeing the profile of the Henchmen makes me think they will work more like the Court instead of the DCD.
Now, dont get me wrong, I'm not trying to be some "Its all fake till the codex comes out" nay-sayer, I strongly believe many of the GK specific rumors, and like they way the look... but something about the =I= stuff just makes me think "More of a wishlist then solid fact".
~DAR
25360
Post by: ductvader
I am pretty sold on the henchmen can take the vehicles...never going to use it myself...but I also believe that the henchmen mobs will take up force org slots when they count as troops...if only for GW clarifying/changing this in the future FaQ.
33586
Post by: Cerebrium
Well, the stuff about Henchmen for example has been crossmatched with a lot of other sources and all of them are almost exactly the same information.
I'm fairly sure henchmen can take chimeras. I couldn't see them specifally saying "No, you can't put them in a transport."
19754
Post by: puma713
oldone wrote: tyranids why didn't we get any awesome stuff like this.
Because Matt Ward didn't write our Codex. Otherwise we would have had Scything Tyrants with Scything Nidfists that can re-roll re-rolls and that can have a bodyguard of 10 Scything Guards and a Scything Prime that could ride in a Scything Pod. Or something to that effect.
25360
Post by: ductvader
Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:I mean, the fact that Inquisitors have been swapping from Hq/Elite/Both FOC slots every time these rumor threads pop-up is starting to cast a dark shadow over any of the "=I=" specific rumors in these threads (at least, as far as I am concerned).
Most likely elite...very similar to what they are now...build your own inquisitors...my current ones are terminators with eviscerators...my old GK solution to armor...
But yes, I do feel the same...the GK rumors are much more solid un unyielding compared to the other parts of the codex...
23332
Post by: Daemon-Archon Ren
Cerebrium wrote:I couldn't see them specifally saying "No, you can't put them in a transport."
It might be something along the lines of:
A Henchmen unit Joined by an inquisitor and in # of X-X May take a dedicated transport...
At least, thats how I think it will probably work out.
33586
Post by: Cerebrium
Eh, I still don't see it happening.
Plus, I'm giving my Inquisitor a personal Land Raider
9217
Post by: KingCracker
Mr Hyena wrote:I wonder how they're gonna write Inquisitorial Stormtroopers out of the fluff...
*Suddenly! Grey Knights! Millions of them!*
No it would be lamer then that. ready for it? Nids ate them. *sits back in leather arm chair* boom mind blown
23332
Post by: Daemon-Archon Ren
Cerebrium wrote:Eh, I still don't see it happening.
The ony thing I totally don't see happening is this:
ph34r wrote:Coteaz - 150p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
1986p total
now, what will be REALLY funny is if henchmen have random 1-X variables like the Court does... that will throw a wrench in many a person's "demo-lists"
~DAR
33586
Post by: Cerebrium
That list isn't even legal, they could have 6 groups at most. It doesn't specifically say Corteaz ignores the FOC.
3560
Post by: Phazael
I am skeptical until I see the book, but it sure seems like the entire army is shut down by a single 100 point Rune Priest. The dependance on psychic tests is too high. I see this book working a lot like the DE in that it will crush stuff below the elite armies, but struggle against the top three.
Against wolves, one runic staff litterally cuts the power of the army in half. Guard will both out number and outshoot the army, as it seems to rely on S7 rending as its primary source of anti-mech. Your standard Nullzone libby list is going to really put the hurt on this army unless every last psycher is LD10.
I think dreadnaughts will still see some use in lists build with Storm Ravens (or if the Dreads actually get some access to pod-like deep strike). Basic PA GKs really changed their role a ton, though. I can see this army becomming the ultimate stallers army, however, with the billions of psych tests to start every single game turn.
6872
Post by: sourclams
I simply have to doubt the ability to 'unlock' 20 razorbacks. Even GW couldn't be that head-in-the-sand obtuse.
25360
Post by: ductvader
The rumored rumor that has been said few times but not confirmed in any way...psylencers take automatic shots at anyone attempting to stop psychic powers via hood or runic weapon or any other bs weapon/wargear...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
And don't think of psychic powers as the power of the codex..think of them like guard orders...useful if they work but not necessary.
6872
Post by: sourclams
Do they single out the psyker in the squad, like Vindicare/Telion? That's a ridonkulous ability.
25360
Post by: ductvader
Yes...now this has yet to be confirmed on any serious level...but that's the only thing that's been said of them at all...besides most units being able to take them for free.
23332
Post by: Daemon-Archon Ren
ductvader wrote:The rumored rumor that has been said few times but not confirmed in any way...psylencers take automatic shots at anyone attempting to stop psychic powers via hood or runic weapon or any other bs weapon/wargear...
So all eldar have to do is stick their Runes-of-warding Farseers off in the corner to avoid being shot! and Either way, I think popping a cruicible of Malediction that has a chance to LITERALLY ANNIHILATE the entire army is quite hilarious as well!
19370
Post by: daedalus
puma713 wrote:
Because Matt Ward didn't write our Codex. Otherwise we would have had Scything Tyrants with Scything Nidfists that can re-roll re-rolls and that can have a bodyguard of 10 Scything Guards and a Scything Prime that could ride in a Scything Pod. Or something to that effect.
Those are fighting words. Has it been confirmed that he's doing this? The fact that the names seem like an 8 year old came up with them imply that it WAS him, but he wrote the last one and I recall someone previously saying it was Cruddace.
3330
Post by: Kirasu
I dont know where this rumor about 0-3 assassins came from.. They're all Unique and take up an elite slot (which makes the apoc formation hard to accomplish!)
8617
Post by: Hulksmash
I can totally see this army being workable without the psychic powers. I see them as more of a boost. In fact I'm toying with a few PAGK oriented lists that are pretty nasty based off the rumors. I think it's going to be important to not get swept away by the tide of cool toys.
I'm personally hoping though that librarians can buy more psychic powers since it'd be pretty sweet to have the two powers that are used in the enemy turn and then 2 more that are used in your turn. Pretty sweet!
I like what I'm seeing so far. Though it looks like the list will peak for me at between 40-50 models.
23332
Post by: Daemon-Archon Ren
Hulksmash wrote:I can totally see this army being workable without the psychic powers. I see them as more of a boost. In fact I'm toying with a few PAGK oriented lists that are pretty nasty based off the rumors. I think it's going to be important to not get swept away by the tide of cool toys.
Don't you play Daemons, Hulk?
FOR SHAME TRAITOR!
25360
Post by: ductvader
Hulksmash wrote:I can totally see this army being workable without the psychic powers. I see them as more of a boost. In fact I'm toying with a few PAGK oriented lists that are pretty nasty based off the rumors. I think it's going to be important to not get swept away by the tide of cool toys.
mhmm...my current lists are more of a purifier basis than anything...they seem closest to what grey knights should be like to me.
8617
Post by: Hulksmash
Hehe, I play admech counts as! And I had a GK army long before a daemon one Like when the book came out third edition till last year when I sold it because I heard rumors of an upcoming codex for this year and I loves me some plastic!
3330
Post by: Kirasu
mhmm...my current lists are more of a purifier basis than anything...they seem closest to what grey knights should be like to me.
What, amazing and overpowered for their cost? :p
8617
Post by: Hulksmash
@Ductvader
Yeah, a unit or two of them w/a grand strategy commander (maybe the ghost guy) to make them scoring, 2 units of standard PAGK's and some purgation squads does it real nice We'll just have to see.
23332
Post by: Daemon-Archon Ren
I'm still looking forward to making my "Griffendor Quiddich Team" list revolving around a GKGM, a Librarian, and a boat-load of caster-knights running around casting "STUPIFY!"
And maybe some snipers cause I really liked that sniper in the halos game.
Halos was a good sniper....
Anywho...
any update on the fast attack choices for this army? I highly doubt they will ONLY get the storm raven. please-n-ty
~DAR
25360
Post by: ductvader
Hulksmash wrote:@Ductvader
Yeah, a unit or two of them w/a grand strategy commander (maybe the ghost guy) to make them scoring, 2 units of standard PAGK's and some purgation squads does it real nice We'll just have to see.
My current quick build lists has 3 psycannon purgation squads, lots of crusaders, mordrak and ghost knights, and crowe somewhere in a strike force
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hoping jump pack strike forces aren't fast attack...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Random thought...outflanking teleport pack guys allows you to appear anywhere but the middle 12" of the board whe they come in from reserve...(outflank from scout from grand strategy) Automatically Appended Next Post: So...outflanking teleporting incinerators can reach anywhere on the board...though you're not guarunteed the right side you want.
29842
Post by: Pen≥Sword
Brotherhood Champion: nemesis force sword that re-rolls wounds.
Options: Digital weapons.
That's an upgrade I just can't pass up!
21954
Post by: EmperorsChampion
This is the one codex I have been waiting for in a good while. (Years perhaps.) I know my templars will be waiting for a good while still so this will hold me off till then! Time to dust off those GKs and buy some storm ravens!
30339
Post by: The Fragile Breath
Wait, the Dreadknight model... Since when is Optimus Prime in Warhammer 40k?!
25360
Post by: ductvader
The Fragile Breath wrote:Wait, the Dreadknight model... Since when is Optimus Prime in Warhammer 40k?!
yawn*
sorry...the joke has been done so many times...
686
Post by: aka_mythos
Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:aka_mythos wrote:The Chimera is in the codex. I'm doubtful that its there for GK to use.
There is the clause on Chimera that states that models in terminator armor count as 2 for Xport capacity, unless you can magically put Guardsmen in Termi armor ( IIRC the 5th edition dex doesnt let you do this), that clause was for when things like SM/ GKs are using Chimera.
That statement is their so Inquisitors in terminator armor can ride with their retinue.
Daemonhunters is the only codex to have both Terminator armor and the Chimera, and the Chimera was never an option for the GK terminator squad. It was obviously meant for the non- SM units and it seems clear to me that's how it will remain for the next codex.
33586
Post by: Cerebrium
Sweet, so I can get my ML/ HF on while carrying my Stormtroopers (or Warrior Acolytes if you're being picky ).
25360
Post by: ductvader
Cerebrium wrote:Sweet, so I can get my ML/ HF on while carrying my Stormtroopers (or Warrior Acolytes if you're being picky ).
Why not run something more fun like assassins and storm shield warriors intermingled?
33586
Post by: Cerebrium
I actually just finished painting a Vindicare today, and await the delivery of a Callidus and Culexus
I'm doing a full =][= army, you see.
It'll have GK, just not a full army of them. I want to keep them as a surgical strike unit, using assassins and stormtroopers to open an oppertunity for them.
25360
Post by: ductvader
Yeah...I meant the assassin henchmen...to mix in cheesy power weapon attacks backed by 3+ invulnerables...
33586
Post by: Cerebrium
Those are crusaders, not assassins. I will be using them too
Just need to find a way to convert them, because I doubt they'll get models.
25360
Post by: ductvader
Deathcult assassins...but yes the stormshield guys are crusaders...I kind of want to run a lot of varying sized models...humans next to power armor next to terminators next to a dreadknight...
Screw the vehicles because such elitests generally don't use them...in most current fluff.
6872
Post by: sourclams
I still think 3 Megatrons is the way to be. Don't know what the Heavy Psycannon is, but I reckon it'll be worth about as much shooting as a purgation squad in a rhino.
For 175 you get a close combat monster that can lay down dakka pain.
Purifiers and Paladins backed up by Megatrons and Vindicare is very probably the direction I go with it.
33586
Post by: Cerebrium
Aye, I just want a dreadknight just for the "oh my god it's a daemon-killing mecha" factor.
28444
Post by: DarknessEternal
ductvader wrote:The rumored rumor that has been said few times but not confirmed in any way...psylencers take automatic shots at anyone attempting to stop psychic powers via hood or runic weapon or any other bs weapon/wargear...
If it's worded like that Shadow of the Warp and Runes of Warding will not be eligible targets for psilencers.
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Post by: The Fragile Breath
ductvader wrote:The Fragile Breath wrote:Wait, the Dreadknight model... Since when is Optimus Prime in Warhammer 40k?!
yawn*
sorry...the joke has been done so many times...
Well, this is the first GK thread I've looked at. Sorry, that thing honestly just looks really silly.
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Post by: Cerebrium
Bear in mind, the only existing pictures of it are either small or blurry as hell. Hell, the big picture is only slightly better than a silhouette.
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Post by: The Fragile Breath
Fair enough, I guess I had just had such high hopes when my friend was telling me about the "Dreadknight!" that even the blurry picture kind of ruins it for me. I have no intention of going GK, but I have a friend who might, and I love awesome looking models. It still has a chance to redeem itself, if the details are really cool. Don't ask me what I was expecting when I heard about it, I'm not sure, but this falls flat of what I was hoping for.
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Post by: Redemption
ductvader wrote:Yes...now this has yet to be confirmed on any serious level...but that's the only thing that's been said of them at all...besides most units being able to take them for free.
Not entirely true, the Gatling Psilencer on the Dreadknight was rumoured to be a regular 12 shot S5 weapon. Nothing has been said about the stats of a regular Psilencer though.
Cerebrium wrote:Those are crusaders, not assassins. I will be using them too
Just need to find a way to convert them, because I doubt they'll get models.
They already have a model, quite a cool one too if you ask me:
Sadly it's just the one though, so fielding a force of them will get expensive and bland without some conversion work.
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Post by: Balance
I think they made two different Crusader minis, actually. I painted both, don't know if I posted pics. Of course, the official paint job looks much better than mine...
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Post by: warboss
MadCowCrazy wrote:We got hit by the GW IP hammer over at Heresy, they wanted us to remove the pictures of the new GKs.
Have you guys received any such letters?
silly GW, scrubbing the internet free of a picture you don't want released but was is about as likely to succeed as straining a pool in order to get a single person's pee out.
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Post by: Redemption
Ah, correct, there's another one in the Witchhunter Inquisitor's retinue:
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Post by: warboss
Balance wrote:I think they made two different Crusader minis, actually. I painted both, don't know if I posted pics. Of course, the official paint job looks much better than mine...
there are currently two crusader minis but they're both based on the same frame. one basically has a hoodie while the other doesn't.
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Post by: dkellyj
Acolytes x 3, 2 Flamer
Razorback. Las/Plas.
Times 18.
Turn 1. 3 squads of Long Fangs pop 6 Razorbacks. 2 LS Typhoons pop 2 more. SW razorspam pops 2 more. 8 left with lots of 3 man units now on foot.
8 GK razors shoot and take out 6 SW razors.
Turn 2. Long Fangs kill 6 more razors. Speeders kill the last 2.
A whole bunch of 3 man units wander around.
Turn 3. Long Fangs and speeders template 8 of these units away. Remaining SW Razors pop another 2 or 3 into the void. 2 Lone Wolfs take out 2 more.
A few 3 man squads try to run away.
Turn 4. Long Fangs and speeders kill remaining 3 man units. Everything else kills Coteaz, the inquisitor of cheese.
In essence, your building a Chimera wall of doom with AV11 vehicles. Even Plasma templates can get some love off of that, taking out 2 for one with lucky scatters.
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Post by: Clay Williams
dkellyj wrote:Acolytes x 3, 2 Flamer
Razorback. Las/Plas.
Times 18.
Turn 1. 3 squads of Long Fangs pop 6 Razorbacks. 2 LS Typhoons pop 2 more. SW razorspam pops 2 more. 8 left with lots of 3 man units now on foot.
8 GK razors shoot and take out 6 SW razors.
Turn 2. Long Fangs kill 6 more razors. Speeders kill the last 2.
A whole bunch of 3 man units wander around.
Turn 3. Long Fangs and speeders template 8 of these units away. Remaining SW Razors pop another 2 or 3 into the void. 2 Lone Wolfs take out 2 more.
A few 3 man squads try to run away.
Turn 4. Long Fangs and speeders kill remaining 3 man units. Everything else kills Coteaz, the inquisitor of cheese.
Yes because every time you shoot something dies.
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Post by: Daemon-Archon Ren
sourclams wrote:I still think 3 Megatrons is the way to be. Don't know what the Heavy Psycannon is, but I reckon it'll be worth about as much shooting as a purgation squad in a rhino.
why would you put a pergation squad in a rhino when you could use a chimera, have all the guys shoot out of it, and have AV12 front? (not to mention multi-lazers)
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Post by: sourclams
Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:sourclams wrote:I still think 3 Megatrons is the way to be. Don't know what the Heavy Psycannon is, but I reckon it'll be worth about as much shooting as a purgation squad in a rhino.
why would you put a pergation squad in a rhino when you could use a chimera, have all the guys shoot out of it, and have AV12 front? (not to mention multi-lazers)
Because thus far there's no indication that Purgation squads can take Chimeras. Buying cheap-as-dirt Hench squads to pick up a chimera to let the Purgation squad have their ride might be viable, but I don't like spending 250 points for 4 psycannons with no CC ability in a Chimera.
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Post by: ObiFett
Culexus 135 Points
Wargear: Psyk-Out Nades, Psyocculum (Unaffected by Night Fight rules when targeting a psyker), Animus Speculum (12" S5 AP1 Assault 2. For every psyker within 12" of the assassin, add 2+ to the Speculum's assault value)
Additional Special Rules: Etherium: Any unit wishing to shoot or use a psychic power on the Culexus must pass an LD test on 3d6 (Vehicles are LD10). If the test is failed they can't target the assassin but can target others.
Tau will never be able to kill this guy. Never. Ever.
19754
Post by: puma713
sourclams wrote:I still think 3 Megatrons is the way to be. Don't know what the Heavy Psycannon is, but I reckon it'll be worth about as much shooting as a purgation squad in a rhino.
For 175 you get a close combat monster that can lay down dakka pain.
Purifiers and Paladins backed up by Megatrons and Vindicare is very probably the direction I go with it.
Looks more like Metroplex to me:
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Post by: Hulksmash
Makes the Culexus the ultimate add-on unit to GK's since each squad counts as a psyker. So keep him near-ish 2-3 squads and giggle as you shoot down entire power armor units in a go. And you've got a pretty solid chance of the enemy not being able to shoot you back
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Post by: sourclams
That guy is the least of the Tau dex's problems. Plasma needing 5s to wound versus Megatrons leaping the Kroot Screen is *not* the least of the Tau dex's problems.
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Post by: Daemon-Archon Ren
A bunch of Grey Knights toting Psycannons are still a bunch of Grey knights... how do they have no CC ability, they are still GKs rite?
Also, I'm pretty sure if Henchmen can take Razorbacks/Rhinos that GKs will be able to take Chimera.
Hell, I wouldn't even be all that surprised if they just make Chimera squadrons (with special rules that would allow them to operate independantly) as one of the Fast Attack slots (as the GKs seem to be missing quite a bit of these options.
19754
Post by: puma713
sourclams wrote:That guy is the least of the Tau dex's problems. Plasma needing 5s to wound versus Megatrons leaping the Kroot Screen is *not* the least of the Tau dex's problems.
You seem really enamored by the Dreadknight.
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Post by: Daemon-Archon Ren
sourclams wrote: Plasma needing 5s to wound versus Megatrons leaping the Kroot Screen is *not* the least of the Tau dex's problems.
Its a good thing that Rail-Funs(intentional) don't have a min range... I think tau will treat the Megatrons like they treat DPs, as Rail-Fun food. (God forbid Farsight wrecks someones Dreadknight, I'm waiting for that PBR)
~DAR
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Post by: ObiFett
sourclams wrote:That guy is the least of the Tau dex's problems. Plasma needing 5s to wound versus Megatrons leaping the Kroot Screen is *not* the least of the Tau dex's problems.
Nah, railguns will chew up Dreadknights and if the kroot screen is right up next to my army there won't be space to jump over.
A guy who can bypass my suits armor and I can't shoot him back? That's an issue. A HUGE issue. Especially because I have nothing to kill him in close combat.
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Post by: derek
daedalus wrote:
it was Cruddace.
No, THOSE are fighting words.
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Post by: NWansbutter
What I'm interested to know is what, if any, effect is the release of Codex: Grey Knights going to have on Codex: Witch Hunters. The rumours indicate that when you take an Inquisitor that you must select which Ordo he's from and Malleus, Hereticus, and Xenos are listed. So this seems to imply that this codex could replace both current inquisition codices. On the other hand, this isn't necessarily the case since it does not have Sisters of Battle in this list. Are there any specific rumours on this point?
Conversely, what are Dakka members' opinions on the likelihood of the Sisters of Battle being done away with like this? I saw somewhere a comment about a possible White Dwarf interim codex ... how popular are sisters these days? Is it likely that this codex could replace them?
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Post by: Daemon-Archon Ren
ObiFett wrote:
A guy who can bypass my suits armor and I can't shoot him back? That's an issue. A HUGE issue. Especially because I have nothing to kill him in close combat.
Crisis suits? (Shield drones lol)
They're Leadership has them getting the shots off ~45% of the time, if those shots don't kill them, then hopefully the 2/3 attacks each hitting on 4s wounding on 3s should do the trick, god forbid you've got Farsight!
NWansbutter wrote:What I'm interested to know is what, if any, effect is the release of Codex: Grey Knights going to have on Codex: Witch Hunters. The rumours indicate that when you take an Inquisitor that you must select which Ordo he's from and Malleus, Hereticus, and Xenos are listed. So this seems to imply that this codex could replace both current inquisition codices. On the other hand, this isn't necessarily the case since it does not have Sisters of Battle in this list. Are there any specific rumours on this point?
Conversely, what are Dakka members' opinions on the likelihood of the Sisters of Battle being done away with like this? I saw somewhere a comment about a possible White Dwarf interim codex ... how popular are sisters these days? Is it likely that this codex could replace them?
If any of the =][= rumors in any of these threads are true, it either means there will be a WH FAQ immediatly following the GK codex release, or the SoB are done for...
the fact that DC assassins and other WH stuff is included in this dex and DIFFERENT from the old versions (unlike Harlequins in the DE dex) means that something is up!
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Post by: Hulksmash
Funny story, 3 Broadsides does 1 wound on average to a Dreadknight....They aren't rail food. That 4++ is gonna be a pita for them.
I'm just excited about GK's. These and my nids are officially the tourney books this year.
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Post by: Daemon-Archon Ren
Hulksmash wrote:Funny story, 3 Broadsides does 1 wound on average to a Dreadknight....They aren't rail food. That 4++ is gonna be a pita for them.
umm hulk...
I think you are forgetting that XV89 Crisis suits can take the "I shoot two guns" upgrade and that they come with Missile Launchers...
They are gonna deal a LOT more then 1 wound per 3...
19754
Post by: puma713
ObiFett wrote:
A guy who can bypass my suits armor and I can't shoot him back? That's an issue. A HUGE issue.
I'll do you one better - a guy who can bypass your suit's armor and your suit's drones, and do 2 wounds all at the same time.
Say hello to Mr. Vindicare.
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Post by: Hulksmash
@Ren
Nevermind buddy. Just not worth the debate or possibilities. Best case scenario has them doing 1.1 wounds w/the missiles too. Just a heads up as I rounded up to 1 wound w/the rail guns
Back on topic anyone got a clue as to the date that the blackbox will go out?
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Post by: Daemon-Archon Ren
puma713 wrote:ObiFett wrote:
A guy who can bypass my suits armor and I can't shoot him back? That's an issue. A HUGE issue.
I'll do you one better - a guy who can bypass your suit's armor and your suit's drones, and do 2 wounds all at the same time.
Say hello to Mr. Vindicare.
IIRC he can only do 1 shot per turn... he cant remove shield drones (as they aren't technically war-gear, they're save is a Special Rule), he CAN remove "Sheild Generator" but even then, he cant do the 2 wound shot, and even if he did, I don't think many tau players are gonna care if their Shield drones take 2 wounds instead of 1 (as, if it works like the old one, its not 2 wounds to be allocated, but two wounds on the same target, and the SD rule overrides ((Or at least, it did IIRC)) the assassin's 'I shoot who I want' rule)
Not to mention, that guy is gonna be a great target for Kroot/Rail-Rifles as well as a slew of other Tau answers.
Tau are still surprisingly strong, and I think they will do well against these new GKs... but then again, when are you really going to encounter a Tau player in the real world? (As they seem to be less common these days then the Dodo bird)
~DAR
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Post by: sourclams
Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:A bunch of Grey Knights toting Psycannons are still a bunch of Grey knights... how do they have no CC ability, they are still GKs rite?
PAGKs have always lost the NFW to carry the psycannon/incinerator. The Justicar is kind of fighty, but they still basically suck against anything but other things that suck in CC.
Also, I'm pretty sure if Henchmen can take Razorbacks/Rhinos that GKs will be able to take Chimera.
Marines have never, or virtually never, had access to the Chimera. Inquisition has had access to rhinos and chimeras for... ever, so including the razorback for Inq. is less of a stretch than including Chims for Marines ( IMO).
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Post by: Daemon-Archon Ren
Hulksmash wrote:@Ren
Nevermind buddy. Just not worth the debate or possibilities. Best case scenario has them doing 1.1 wounds w/the missiles too. Just a heads up as I rounded up to 1 wound w/the rail guns
Back on topic anyone got a clue as to the date that the blackbox will go out?
I'm assuming, based on how the DE/BA books went out and the fact that the "Incoming GKs email has already landed"... Expect Pre-sales to begin early March Codex will probably release mid april with pre-orders being shipped our 2-5 days in advanced.
but as for your 'rounding up'
3 shots of S10 ap1 gives you a mean of 1.11
and the 12 St 5 mls are dealing a mean of .3
(Rounding up would actually put you at around 3-4 wounds, if using 65th % or better.
Just as a heads up (I lurves me some math!)
Anywho, time to go AWOL from work!! Ill be back when I get home.
~DAR
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Post by: sourclams
Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:3 shots of S10 ap1 gives you a mean of 1.11
and the 12 St 5 mls are dealing a mean of .3
BS3 all round, right?
3 twin-linked rail guns vs. 4+ invul, .94 wounds
12 missiles needing 6s to wound vs. 2+ armor, .14 wounds.
Almost exactly 1 wound per turn.
19754
Post by: puma713
Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:puma713 wrote:ObiFett wrote:
A guy who can bypass my suits armor and I can't shoot him back? That's an issue. A HUGE issue.
I'll do you one better - a guy who can bypass your suit's armor and your suit's drones, and do 2 wounds all at the same time.
Say hello to Mr. Vindicare.
IIRC he can only do 1 shot per turn... he cant remove shield drones (as they aren't technically war-gear, they're save is a Special Rule), he CAN remove "Sheild Generator" but even then, he cant do the 2 wound shot, and even if he did, I don't think many tau players are gonna care if their Shield drones take 2 wounds instead of 1 (as, if it works like the old one, its not 2 wounds to be allocated, but two wounds on the same target, and the SD rule overrides ((Or at least, it did IIRC)) the assassin's 'I shoot who I want' rule)
You completely missed my point.  You don't have to worry about Shield Drones. They're models, not wargear. The Vindicare can simply pick out the Suit and do 2 wounds to it, bypassing the Shield Drone and the Suit's armor altogether. Kill the 3 suits, forget the drones.
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Post by: sourclams
I haven't read the Tau codex in some number of years, but isn't it worded strangely, like 'unsaved wounds are taken against drones first', meaning even if Vindie does do 2 wounds to a crisis suit, its drones die first regardless?
19754
Post by: puma713
sourclams wrote:Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:3 shots of S10 ap1 gives you a mean of 1.11
and the 12 St 5 mls are dealing a mean of .3
BS3 all round, right?
3 twin-linked rail guns vs. 4+ invul, .94 wounds
12 missiles needing 6s to wound vs. 2+ armor, .14 wounds.
Almost exactly 1 wound per turn.
Missile pods (Crisis Suits) need 4's to wound. Smart missile (Broadsides) need 6's. Automatically Appended Next Post: sourclams wrote:I haven't read the Tau codex in some number of years, but isn't it worded strangely, like 'unsaved wounds are taken against drones first', meaning even if Vindie does do 2 wounds to a crisis suit, its drones die first regardless?
No. The drones even have a special rule that say, "If the drone controller dies, all drones are removed."
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Post by: 12thRonin
sourclams wrote:
Marines have never, or virtually never, had access to the Chimera. Inquisition has had access to rhinos and chimeras for... ever, so including the razorback for Inq. is less of a stretch than including Chims for Marines (IMO).
Only in the mind of CS Goto(hell) has Marines ever had access to Chimeras.
FWIW, the DK reminded more of the G1 Superion more than Megatron...
26
Post by: carmachu
olympia wrote:Dreadknight and Dreadnought compete in the same FOC slot? Seems like the knight is the better choice by a long shot.
Plus most folks already own dreads as greyknights and GW has a shiny new kit to sell.....
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Post by: Pyriel-
Psycannon: Str 7 AP 4 36" Assault 2/Heavy 3, Rending.
Incinerator: Str 5 AP 4 Template, Rending.
Personal Teleporter: The unit moves as if it had a jump pack, but it's type does not actually change. In addition, once per game the unit may move (teleport, really) 30" though it cannot assault afterwards.
So the psycannon rumor was a bit to much it seems.
GKs are stuck with a 3 shot weapon that uses rending as their only means for ranged AV.
That sucks.
You need to waste to many points of small arms fire just to get a 2/3 chance of rending once.
Jump Infantry
Strike squads count as assault marines, interesting, wonder how much points that upgrade will cost.
They might end up like jumppack vanguard marines with no one ever using them.
Jokaero Weaponsmith: WS4 BS3 S2 T3 W1 I3 A* Ld8 Sv5++ 35 Points?
Hmm, a fragile, shooty space monkey with Cc oriented statline?
I really hope that there end up being some other things in Fast Attack. I get GW wants to sell more Storm Ravens, but, damn.
Wanna bet that for a TON of points strike GKs can take jumppacks (teleporters) becoming vanguard marines and counting as Fast Attack.
Also, same situation with vindicare...does the vindi need LOS or can he simply target the unit and choose who takes the wounds? Interesting. None the less I didnt say he was foolproof, hes damn good most of the time. You will always get the poor matchup now and then, which usually means you will have to use the rest of you army
Also if a Vindo shoots a model that sits in terrain cover will that model still get its 4+ cover save?
If Vindies cannot bypass cover saves tehy are pretty much worthless and kill things half the time like currently.
As a psychic shooting attack, the rune priest may trace a straight line alomg the board starting from the rune priest and ending 24" away. This line may pass through terrain, monstrous creatures, beasts, bikes and infantry. Models touched by the line must take an initiative test if the model fails it is removed from play
Its strange, SW get a power that can massacre monstrous creatures and necrons (slow things) while GK that already get tons of option vs weak hordes get a power that massacres weak hordes like dark eldar, IG etc.
It's *possible* that chimeras are only available to Inquisitors themselves, but that would put a 2 chimera limit on an army, which I doubt GW would want to do...
Maybe you can be allowed 2 HQ inquisitors and 3 elite inquisitors with a total of 5 chimeras for their warbands.
That would actually sound pretty more balanced then an 18-chimera spam.
That or a rule that says for every 12 henchmen you can take a chimera.
Those are crusaders, not assassins. I will be using them too
Just need to find a way to convert them, because I doubt they'll get models.
They already have a model, quite a cool one too if you ask me:
Sorry but it´s going to look pretty slowed having a squad of 10 crusaders all looking the exact same with a small hood being the only thing that differs in the squad.
A bunch of Grey Knights toting Psycannons are still a bunch of Grey knights... how do they have no CC ability, they are still GKs rite?
The longer your 4Xpsycannon squads are bogged down in pointless Cc the more you will loose.
Marines have never, or virtually never, had access to the Chimera. Inquisition has had access to rhinos and chimeras for... ever, so including the razorback for Inq. is less of a stretch than including Chims for Marines (IMO).
Always wondered why mass produced IG transports, that is WW2 soviet BMPs, are better then what the elite of the elite, the marines, use.
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Post by: Alpharius
Guys, no need to 'spoiler hide' pictures of existing miniatures.
Besides, the 'old' Crusader miniatures deserve to be shown again - they are THAT cool after all!
3330
Post by: Kirasu
Sorry I didnt post the stats for the Jokaero lol.. It was pretty unneeded, as I said "stats are horrible"
Teleporter upgrade is 6ps for model, so yes its very expensive.. but hey DC pay 15pts for jump packs!
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Post by: Slackermagee
Those are the semi-reliable point costs? Good God, Matt Ward, those don't seem right at all given what those models can do.
3330
Post by: Kirasu
Theyre the point cost in the almost-final playtest codex yes.. Will it change? Eh.. I doubt it. If the point cost got that far it's probably there to stay
38857
Post by: VoidAngel
Personally, I am very OK with the idea that the Inquisition in this codex is characterized in the rules exactly as they are in the fluff.
"You want 47 suits of purple power armor, 47 meltaguns with targeters, 47 Razorbacks with camo netting, and a bag of almond M&Ms with all the red ones removed? Sir, yes Inquisitor Sir!"
Fine by me. Let it be like the Rogue Trader days, where the point total was all. You want Marines with Shuriken catapults? Got the points to spend on it? Okeedokee...let's play!
Go for it, GW.
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Post by: derek
Alpharius wrote:Guys, no need to 'spoiler hide' pictures of existing miniatures.
Besides, the 'old' Crusader miniatures deserve to be shown again - they are THAT cool after all!
They are at that.
I figured the hide was just to save on page space instead of having the large pic every time.
33586
Post by: Cerebrium
VoidAngel wrote:Personally, I am very OK with the idea that the Inquisition in this codex is characterized in the rules exactly as they are in the fluff.
"You want 47 suits of purple power armor, 47 meltaguns with targeters, 47 Razorbacks with camo netting, and a bag of almond M&Ms with all the red ones removed? Sir, yes Inquisitor Sir!"
Fine by me. Let it be like the Rogue Trader days, where the point total was all. You want Marines with Shuriken catapults? Got the points to spend on it? Okeedokee...let's play!
Go for it, GW.
This is exactly my thoughts. All the mad loadouts are just product of Inquisitors requisitioning it all.
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Post by: ductvader
Has anyone looked more closely at that Witch Hunter inquisitor?...what a beast. T5 Hammerhand and Mind Blades...and you can sacrifice your own guys to have scatterless templates....oh my...he comes with an orbital strike as well...This guy is giving old Hector a run for his money...Awesome weapons too...might run him in a CC mob for my eventual dakka knight lists...
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Post by: sourclams
There was nothing allowing blasts to be shot into the assault, though, so he's less interesting to me than other stuff.
Now, if orbital bombardments can be shot onto a you-can-t-touch-me BroCap in the assault phase, that would be hilarious.
15829
Post by: Redemption
derek wrote:Alpharius wrote:Guys, no need to 'spoiler hide' pictures of existing miniatures.
Besides, the 'old' Crusader miniatures deserve to be shown again - they are THAT cool after all!
They are at that.
I figured the hide was just to save on page space instead of having the large pic every time.
Aye, was just went a space saver, especially as people tend to quote posts with images over and over again.
11
Post by: ph34r
Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:but as for your 'rounding up'
3 shots of S10 ap1 gives you a mean of 1.11
and the 12 St 5 mls are dealing a mean of .3
(Rounding up would actually put you at around 3-4 wounds, if using 65th % or better.
Just as a heads up (I lurves me some math!)
Anywho, time to go AWOL from work!! Ill be back when I get home.
~DAR
Looks like you need to lurve you some math a little harder. 0.75*3*5/6*0.5=0.9375 wounds from railguns 0.5*12*0.166*0.166=0.166 wounds from missile pods total 1.104166 wounds So essentially, you are wrong about the railguns, you are wrong about the missile pods. Oh, and you are also wrong about the rounding, because rounding up an answer does not mean round up as many steps in the process as you want. I hope your work isn't centered around lurving math! EDIT: Unless of course your math is using some values other than what I have posted, in which case feel free to show yourself right!
19377
Post by: Grundz
Redemption wrote: especially as people tend to quote posts with images over and over again.
YES, THANK YOU
//admins are too lazy to add the script that auto hides images in quotes =/
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Post by: ph34r
Grundz wrote:Redemption wrote: especially as people tend to quote posts with images over and over again.
YES, THANK YOU
//admins are too lazy to add the script that auto hides images in quotes =/
Our glorious webmonkey legoburner is anything but lazy! If you want a feature go suggest it in the Nuts & Bolts forum.
1523
Post by: Saldiven
ph34r wrote:
0.5*3*0.75*0.5=0.9375 wounds from railguns
0.5 x 3 x 0.75 x 0.5 = 0.5625
I'm sure you skipped a step or something in the line of math you gave, but the calculation doesn't equal the answer given.
I think you meant:
.75 x 3 x .833 x .5 = .9375
34456
Post by: ColdSadHungry
Death Cult Assassins:
Ok, so they've lost a wound but they've gained +1BS and +1I but crucially, they are 25 points cheaper than they used to be! They've lost fearless and infiltrate but you can take dozens of them!
The difference in their weapons loadout is that in the current codex they have a power weapon and additional close combat weapon whereas the new rules state 2 power weapons - what would that mean for attacks on the charge? No change I hope.
Now, obviously these are all just rumours but if the death cult assassins are this good for just 15 points then I'd love to see what the possibilities are with them:
Take mordrak and deep strike him on turn 1, infiltrate with the Vindicare, scout with a squad of 12 Death cult assassins to really seize the initiative!
Or loads of tiny 3 man death cult squads all over the place.
IDK really but I just have a yearning to see what can be done with these, all striking with two power weapons at initiative 6
15829
Post by: Redemption
One power weapon and an additional close combat weapon compared to 2 power weapons makes no difference as far as gameplay is concerned, no, you get the same number of armour ignoring attacks.
6872
Post by: sourclams
ColdSadHungry wrote:IDK really but I just have a yearning to see what can be done with these, all striking with two power weapons at initiative 6
It's sort of like the poor man's Wych squad... that can be better than a Wych squad. For 150 points, 40 WS5/S4/I6 power weapon attacks are fairly terrifying to many squads. Assault Terminators get eaten alive by that sort of nonsense.
34456
Post by: ColdSadHungry
Also;
Psycannon: Str 7 AP 4 36" Assault 2/Heavy 3, Rending.
Can normal GK take psycannon, PAGK I mean? If so, are these the stats for a terminator psycannon or does it mean that PAGK can now move and shoot with them? If so, awesome! Automatically Appended Next Post: sourclams wrote:ColdSadHungry wrote:IDK really but I just have a yearning to see what can be done with these, all striking with two power weapons at initiative 6
It's sort of like the poor man's Wych squad... that can be better than a Wych squad. For 150 points, 40 WS5/S4/I6 power weapon attacks are fairly terrifying to many squads. Assault Terminators get eaten alive by that sort of nonsense.
Yeah, I just think that 2 power weapons for this price with WS5 and I6 is gonna be great. I also think that, looking at the Death cult assassins, maybe some of these rumours are off the mark :(
6872
Post by: sourclams
Well, there's many things that make them worse, too.
No fast assault transport (unless you're buying a Stormraven or Land Raider just for your cultists... I mean, really?)
No grenades
Have to take the Inquisitor to 'unlock' them
Fleet of... nothing
To give them the sort of threat profile of a Wych squad you need to invest some heavy points. If not, you're stuck playing the Rhino/Chimera shuffle, or risk them getting shot up or not getting to combat at all.
35973
Post by: Gibbsey
So basically with all these rumors all they needed to do was add sisters and make you choose between gk or sisters (or go pure Inq) and they would have a complete inquisition codex....
33586
Post by: Cerebrium
Been said before, you can make Warrior Acolytes into (slightly nerfed) Sisters, anyway.
19754
Post by: puma713
Cerebrium wrote:Been said before, you can make Warrior Acolytes into (slightly nerfed) Sisters, anyway.
Wonder if they have SoB pictured as Warrior Acolytes in the codex.
35973
Post by: Gibbsey
Cerebrium wrote:Been said before, you can make Warrior Acolytes into (slightly nerfed) Sisters, anyway.
Well i was going for sisters special rules, units, etc (otherwise they would have basically just removed sisters)
33586
Post by: Cerebrium
puma713 wrote:Cerebrium wrote:Been said before, you can make Warrior Acolytes into (slightly nerfed) Sisters, anyway.
Wonder if they have SoB pictured as Warrior Acolytes in the codex.
Nah, if anything, they'll have Stormtroopers pictured.
8617
Post by: Hulksmash
@Gibbsey
I think that was actually the point I think. The sisters are going to be more of the churchy feel when they get re-released like they were before and the GK's are the more Inquisition oriented. I think the different inquisitors was the source for a lot of the "combined" codex rumors that were our there forever.
34456
Post by: ColdSadHungry
sourclams wrote:Well, there's many things that make them worse, too.
No fast assault transport (unless you're buying a Stormraven or Land Raider just for your cultists... I mean, really?)
No grenades
Have to take the Inquisitor to 'unlock' them
Fleet of... nothing
To give them the sort of threat profile of a Wych squad you need to invest some heavy points. If not, you're stuck playing the Rhino/Chimera shuffle, or risk them getting shot up or not getting to combat at all.
Im not saying they are going to be THE unit to take but for the price they can be very, very useful IMO. Plus they're just cool, unlike things such as arco flagellants and daemonhosts which are just ugly. And who knows, after a few months of playing once the codex is released, it could be that a stormraven full of death cult assassins is the way forward, certainly a lot less risky than packing a stormraven full of paladins. Ok, it probably won't be the case, in fact it almost definitely WON'T be the case but all these rumours just scream 'OPTIONS!'
38857
Post by: VoidAngel
Ya gotta love Mordrak. Most people's imaginary friends aren't units of Terminators.
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Post by: sourclams
Yeah, I love the customizability of this (rumored) [test] codex. Very glad it's going the way of IG/SW/BA/DE. Sorry Nids.
17901
Post by: Vhalyar
Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:ductvader wrote: think popping a cruicible of Malediction that has a chance to LITERALLY ANNIHILATE the entire army is quite hilarious as well!
Not quite. The way Brotherhood of Psykers is described, only one model per unit would be affected, because for game purposes there is only one psyker per squad (not counting ICs, of course).
Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:why would you put a pergation squad in a rhino when you could use a chimera, have all the guys shoot out of it, and have AV12 front? (not to mention multi-lazers)
Check the summary; it specifically states that Chimeras are henchmen-only.
sourclams wrote:Now, if orbital bombardments can be shot onto a you-can-t-touch-me BroCap in the assault phase, that would be hilarious.
Yes, he can target Orbital Bombardment on allied unit; does so makes it scatterless.
2764
Post by: AgeOfEgos
sourclams wrote:Yeah, I love the customizability of this (rumored) [test] codex. Very glad it's going the way of IG/SW/BA/DE. Sorry Nids.
Which is incredibly sad/ironic if you think about. The one race that is not stagnantly entrenched into dogma.....the race that isn't near death and forced to use what it has.....the one race that is has the ability of heightened evolution due to environmental pressure.....
Good job Cruddance.
6872
Post by: sourclams
AgeOfEgos wrote:Which is incredibly sad/ironic if you think about. The one race that is not stagnantly entrenched into dogma.....the race that isn't near death and forced to use what it has.....the one race that is has the ability of heightened evolution due to environmental pressure.....
Jokaero?
19754
Post by: puma713
VoidAngel wrote:Ya gotta love Castellan Crowe. Most people's imaginary friends aren't units of Terminators.
I think you're thinking of Mordrak. Crowe makes Purifiers troops.
30356
Post by: Jaon
VoidAngel wrote:Jaon wrote:
And hes only 25 points more than a regular GKGM. Only known downside is the terminators disappear when modrack dies, but when is he going to die first?
Um...Vindicare? And if the 03 per slot rumor is true, his own codex can counter him in a turn?
Already been covered many times.
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Post by: Vhalyar
Jaon wrote:Already been covered many times.
That means it's worth editing the OP to indicate that they're unique.
20650
Post by: Pyriel-
AgeOfEgos wrote:sourclams wrote:Yeah, I love the customizability of this (rumored) [test] codex. Very glad it's going the way of IG/SW/BA/DE. Sorry Nids.
Which is incredibly sad/ironic if you think about. The one race that is not stagnantly entrenched into dogma.....the race that isn't near death and forced to use what it has.....the one race that is has the ability of heightened evolution due to environmental pressure.....
Good job Cruddance.
Squats?
19754
Post by: puma713
Pyriel- wrote:AgeOfEgos wrote:sourclams wrote:Yeah, I love the customizability of this (rumored) [test] codex. Very glad it's going the way of IG/SW/BA/DE. Sorry Nids.
Which is incredibly sad/ironic if you think about. The one race that is not stagnantly entrenched into dogma.....the race that isn't near death and forced to use what it has.....the one race that is has the ability of heightened evolution due to environmental pressure.....
Good job Cruddance.
Squats?
No, the Tyranids already assimilated them. That's why they're so sluggish now.
24223
Post by: Holycrusader27
Question I have is will the stormraven be able to transport DK like they do dreadnoughts.... If so awesome all take 3 , if not can always make em scoring via GKGM....
33586
Post by: Cerebrium
Nope, Dreadknights can't be put in any transport.
38857
Post by: VoidAngel
puma713 wrote:VoidAngel wrote:Ya gotta love Castellan Crowe. Most people's imaginary friends aren't units of Terminators.
I think you're thinking of Mordrak. Crowe makes Purifiers troops.
Yeah, uh...that's what I said...(now where's that 'edit' button...doh!) Automatically Appended Next Post: Jaon wrote:VoidAngel wrote:Jaon wrote:
And hes only 25 points more than a regular GKGM. Only known downside is the terminators disappear when modrack dies, but when is he going to die first?
Um...Vindicare? And if the 03 per slot rumor is true, his own codex can counter him in a turn?
Already been covered many times.
Yeah, this thing grows pages faster than I can read... heh
11
Post by: ph34r
Saldiven wrote:ph34r wrote:
0.5*3*0.75*0.5=0.9375 wounds from railguns
0.5 x 3 x 0.75 x 0.5 = 0.5625
I'm sure you skipped a step or something in the line of math you gave, but the calculation doesn't equal the answer given.
I think you meant:
.75 x 3 x .833 x .5 = .9375
Oops, you are quite right. I miswrote one of my steps. Right answer, though. Thanks for catching that.
30356
Post by: Jaon
ObiFett wrote:sourclams wrote:That guy is the least of the Tau dex's problems. Plasma needing 5s to wound versus Megatrons leaping the Kroot Screen is *not* the least of the Tau dex's problems.
Nah, railguns will chew up Dreadknights and if the kroot screen is right up next to my army there won't be space to jump over.
A guy who can bypass my suits armor and I can't shoot him back? That's an issue. A HUGE issue. Especially because I have nothing to kill him in close combat.
It will take more than 12 twin linked railguns to down a DK.
12 fire, 8 hit (allowing for twin linked, if they are not twin linked, 6 will hit)
1 fails to wound
4 are saved by 4++
3 wounds dealt. 1 wound remaining.
Non twin linked?
16 railguns
8 hit
7 wound
4 saved by 4++
3 wounds dealt one remaining.
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Post by: ph34r
As a TL BS3 railgun deals 0.3125 wounds, it will take 12.8 twin linked railgun shots to kill 1 dreadknight. Automatically Appended Next Post: Jaon wrote:It will take more than 12 twin linked railguns to down a DK.
12 fire, 8 hit (allowing for twin linked, if they are not twin linked, 6 will hit)
I think you mean 9 hit from twin linked?
5610
Post by: Noisy_Marine
Cerebrium wrote:Nope, Dreadknights can't be put in any transport.
Waaah?! Can't the GK's strap a Dreadknight to a storm raven and deepstrike it? This is the Inquisition after all. They have the technology.
11
Post by: ph34r
The Inquisition is too busy requisitioning psychic razorbacks, melta guns, and bowls of M&Ms with everything but the red ones picked out. Besides, dreadknights have 30" teleporters.
17901
Post by: Vhalyar
ph34r wrote:The Inquisition is too busy requisitioning psychic razorbacks, melta guns, and bowls of M&Ms with everything but the red ones picked out. Besides, dreadknights have 30" teleporters.
And it can naturally Deepstrike. It really doesn't need a transport at all.
30356
Post by: Jaon
ph34r wrote:As a TL BS3 railgun deals 0.3125 wounds, it will take 12.8 twin linked railgun shots to kill 1 dreadknight.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jaon wrote:It will take more than 12 twin linked railguns to down a DK.
12 fire, 8 hit (allowing for twin linked, if they are not twin linked, 6 will hit)
I think you mean 9 hit from twin linked?
I didnt mathhammer, was completely in my head. Thanks for the correction tho.
(Good to know I was close when I was more or less guessing ) Automatically Appended Next Post: Vhalyar wrote:ph34r wrote:The Inquisition is too busy requisitioning psychic razorbacks, melta guns, and bowls of M&Ms with everything but the red ones picked out. Besides, dreadknights have 30" teleporters.
And it can naturally Deepstrike. It really doesn't need a transport at all.
I missed the part about it being able to naturally deepstrike, is that only with a teleporter? or without?
But yes agreed 100% Vhalyar 100% (I typed Valhalla...) We dont need our Dreadknights dying in plane crashes when they can quite safely teleport around. Although theres gotta be a catch...
Ok once per game is alright for a 30 no scatter jump-infantry-move teleport, (not deepstrike[?]), but usually they dont HAVE once per game moves on units, they just have "Cant do anything next turn" or what have you.
And can the dreadknight move 12' with a teleporter as if moving like jump infantry? Its all very interesting. I wonder if it will be able to fire more than 1 ranged weapon per turn.
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Post by: Holycrusader27
ph34r wrote:The Inquisition is too busy requisitioning psychic razorbacks, melta guns, and bowls of M&Ms with everything but the red ones picked out. Besides, dreadknights have 30" teleporters.
Thats fine lets hope stormraven still has teleport homer upgrade like BA transport 2 walkers for price of one SR
34172
Post by: Magister187
DK should be able to fire 2 weapons, it is an MC after all.
16019
Post by: WarsawTom
nevermind meng
33746
Post by: Billythekid256
Wow looks promising but that dreadknight does look like a gundam. And i feel sorry for my friend he just started playing and his army is chaos deamons poor him.
30356
Post by: Jaon
Hahha on one hand Im happy to hear theres another daemon player out there, on the other hand I ask why the hell would you start now
17072
Post by: crazypsyko666
I'm calling shenanigans on the Terminators as Troops. It does seem possible that the Lord High Grand Master Sir his Majesty whatever would make Terminators troops, but PALADINS? Has GW gone nuts? I'd love nothing more than to see a competitive DH army book, but this is insane. Speaking of which, does he have a minimum army cost? I'd put him at 2000 minimum. Otherwise, I actually don't think I mind, besides there being a fething Librarian. Why does a chapter FULL TO THE BRIM with psykers need a goddamn librarian? EVERYONE should be a Librarian! -ahem-, end of rant.
Aside from those two burning complaints, I like the idea behind this army quite a bit. Lots of individuality, everyone has psychic powers (I thought of that one!) It's still ridiculously expensive, but they've made the effort to make them cheesy enough to be worth the cost, rather than just cheapen them. It'll be interesting to see how they play, and how reckless assaults and charging into CQC will pan out, given that Terminators can be troops, and therefore be given the biggest, scariest weapons in the imperium, move and THEN shoot everyone's faces off (psycannon spam, anyone?) I'm also foreseeing a lot of psycannons on Paladins. Just saying.
33746
Post by: Billythekid256
He didn't know about new greykights till i told them and he aint to happy about what i told him
2515
Post by: augustus5
ph34r wrote:As a TL BS3 railgun deals 0.3125 wounds, it will take 12.8 twin linked railgun shots to kill 1 dreadknight.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jaon wrote:It will take more than 12 twin linked railguns to down a DK.
12 fire, 8 hit (allowing for twin linked, if they are not twin linked, 6 will hit)
I think you mean 9 hit from twin linked?
This doesn't take into account markerlight hits, which tau should use on any priority targets and will reduce the number of railguns needed to fire on the dk.
11
Post by: ph34r
Well, then maybe it will take slightly less than 13 railguns to kill 1 megatron! Which is good, because tau have access to only 9 railguns, and GK have access to 3 megatrons, and tau have one turn to kill them before their railguns cease to exist.
17072
Post by: crazypsyko666
I think we can all agree that Tau are pretty damn well dated at this point, and will have trouble taking on any MEQs, though? This really just seems to be the last nail in the coffin.
35973
Post by: Gibbsey
ph34r wrote:Well, then maybe it will take slightly less than 13 railguns to kill 1 megatron! Which is good, because tau have access to only 9 railguns, and GK have access to 3 megatrons, and tau have one turn to kill them before their railguns cease to exist.
At least until Tau get updated
then we all know what happens...
37700
Post by: Ascalam
' I got to get me one of dese!'
I want a supa lifta droppa to use on that thing
25360
Post by: ductvader
Just played my first game based on rumored points and rules...
Now that says very little of what the army is actually like.
But as far as I have seen.
Crowe is a superbeast to destroy all superbeasts...stick him with someone you want to benefit from cleansing flame. He will take care of himself just fine with all of his stances.
Strike forces suck unless you take packs...and oh my goodness packs are awesome...shoot, back up...shoot back up...30 inch teleport to their side of the board...shoot, back up...it gets crazy.
Purifiers are what GKs are meant to be...with cleansing flame and base two attacks...they will wipe most any unit off the board...got to take the halberds because they're cheap on purpose...free incinerators...
Having a hard time deciding if i like the incinerator or psycannon better...killed off three rhinos with incinerators, and killed off...everything with 3 psycannon purgation squads...
Mordrak is unstoppable...being an upgrade is important because it means you cant just phase out the ghost knights...you have to kill him first...i was purposefully throwing wounds on him to test him out...he keeps going and going...3+ cover when deepstriking...pure money...if these guys have grenades...its just unfair.
Fortitude is fantastic...lets you keep rolling and comes up more often than you'd think...
Like I said....played according to rumored points and rules...who knows what the actual army will be like...
Was also able to give scout to 3 units via Mordrak...awesome...
17901
Post by: Vhalyar
BoK will be posting more rumors in a few hours it seems. Honestly at this point I have to wonder what they could possibly reveal that other people havn't already mentioned.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
MadCowCrazy wrote:We got hit by the GW IP hammer over at Heresy, they wanted us to remove the pictures of the new GKs.
GW can be so quaint sometimes. Trying to stop something on the Internet! When will they learn? Automatically Appended Next Post: Vhalyar wrote:BoK will be posting more rumors in a few hours it seems. Honestly at this point I have to wonder what they could possibly reveal that other people havn't already mentioned.
I agree. Everything I knew has made it out there. The only things I know now that haven't been revealed aren't really relevant to the GK Codex, so, yeah, why is BoK waiting? He's hardly 40K's version of Wikileaks, unleashing something special that the world's never seen.
Then again, maybe he has non-blurry pictures of Optimus & Co.
20650
Post by: Pyriel-
What I wonder about and what will make or break this army for me are the stormbolters counting as pistols in Cc or not.
The interesting thing is what are the force falcions counting as. Rumors say lightning claws but I say no, it cant be an extra Cc attack since twin falchions remove the stormbolter which already gave an extra Cc attack so why remove shooting and a Cc attack for an added Cc attack.
Thus either:
A: Stormbolters dont count as pistols (and strike knights will be absolutely worthless)
B: Nemesis falchions do something totally different (maybe granting a 4++ Cc save like the ultramarine honour guard combat blades).
There has to be a Cc benefit for the loss of a SB.
I also toyed a little with some GK rumor based army concepts but it didnt work out for me, the army is way way to small (to few minis) to be anything but bad but then I only toyed with strike knights with and without jump and purgation squads in rhinos.
I cant see any point of ever doing a terminator heavy GK army consisting on only normal terminators, those attempts were total failures.
11
Post by: ph34r
So will the BoK supposed information actually be useful or new? Taking bets here.
5312
Post by: synack
From Bok
*Nemesis Ward Staff can be only bought for one Grey Knight per squad. So that means only one will be able to take one of those mean wounds.
*Unlike reported before by me and others GKT do not get Storms Shields (with very few exceptions). That means you are stuck with sucky +5 invul saves on termies. What you do get instead is all nemesis force weapons grant a +1 to all invul saves in assault. That means +4 saves in close combat.
*A full man unit of Paladins average around 600-800 for 10 of them. So don’t expect to spam many of them.
*Add to that the Paladin Captain that makes them troops is the most expensive model in the codex over the cost of a Land Raider.
*Sadly the Dread Knight MC thingy cannot be put in a Stormraven.
*The worst change that I hinted at back when I first reported the rumors last year. The whole Teleporting Grey Knight once per game thing is for the Grey Knight squads in the Fast Attack slot. That means those guys and the Stormraven are your only FA choices in the entire codex. Normal GKs will not be able to teleport in the game.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
What you do get instead is all nemesis force weapons grant a +1 to all invul saves in assault.
So that's how they're doing that rule. I can then assume then that you lose this ability if you upgrade to the Nemesis Force Halberd.
Sadly the Dread Knight MC thingy cannot be put in a Stormraven.
Of course it doesn't fit in a Stormraven. It merges with the Storm Raven (and two Rhinos and two Land Speeders) to form Computron!!!
3330
Post by: Kirasu
I dont know where the +1 attack from having a storm bolter comes from.. Maybe its in the armory which I dont have, but its certainly not a special rule anywhere that I can find. No one has "true grit" anymore
11
Post by: ph34r
H.B.M.C. wrote:What you do get instead is all nemesis force weapons grant a +1 to all invul saves in assault.
So that's how they're doing that rule. I can then assume then that you lose this ability if you upgrade to the Nemesis Force Halberd.
Ummm.... No?
Halberds are weapons, one must not forget
17901
Post by: Vhalyar
Well at least we now have two FA options. That's good for higher-point games and makes Crowe a bit more appealing.
Only one warding stave per squad? Too bad, but then again ICs can still buy them and that's where they are most cost-effective.
Edit: Then again, that means teleporting squads can't score (without the Grand Strategy), so no using that 30" move for some last-turn objective grabbing.
15115
Post by: Brother SRM
Too bad? It's a godsend that you can't buy 2+ invulnerable saves for the entire squad. That's ridiculous. I like the rule that GK get a better invulnerable save in close combat. Characterful and somewhat effective.
17901
Post by: Vhalyar
Brother SRM wrote:Too bad? It's a godsend that you can't buy 2+ invulnerable saves for the entire squad. That's ridiculous. I like the rule that GK get a better invulnerable save in close combat. Characterful and somewhat effective.
I agree that the whole squads with them was stupid (and also 800 points for 10 models, hooray) but one seems a bit low when there are no storm shields around. That just makes Ghost Knights more interesting though.
30356
Post by: Jaon
Hating that normal GK cant teleport. Hating.
I Be Hating.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
ph34r wrote:Ummm.... No? Halberds are weapons, one must not forget
Don't facepalm me. I know what a Halberd is. I also know that they are different from Nemesis Force Swords. The sword enhances the shield. The Halberd provides extra killy-ness. The thing I originally read gave me a major ' WTF' moment when I noted the Sword boosting the invul. Now with these confirmations from B&K it makes sense. It also highlights that there is a difference between all the various GK Weapons (Halberd, Sword, Falchions, Warding Stave, Daemon Hammer, Great Sword, DOOM FIST, etc.). They all do different things. There's no generic 'Nemesis Close Combat Weapon'. Automatically Appended Next Post: Jaon wrote:Hating that normal GK cant teleport. Hating.
 They never could anyway. Termies could Teleport in. Tel Attack Squads could Teleport in. How is this any different? Did they take Teleport away from the GKT's?
5312
Post by: synack
I think its a little crap that GKs can't get storm shields.
I wonder if units that don't have a invun will get a 6++ in CC.
11
Post by: ph34r
H.B.M.C. wrote:ph34r wrote:Ummm.... No?
Halberds are weapons, one must not forget
Don't facepalm me. I know what a Halberd is. I also know that they are different from Nemesis Force Swords. The sword enhances the shield. The Halberd provides extra killy-ness.
The thing I originally read gave me a major ' WTF' moment when I noted the Sword boosting the invul. Now with these confirmations from B&K it makes sense. It also highlights that there is a difference between all the various GK Weapons (Halberd, Sword, Falchions, Warding Stave, Daemon Hammer, Great Sword, DOOM FIST, etc.). They all do different things. There's no generic 'Nemesis Close Combat Weapon'.
Who ever said anything about "Nemesis Force Swords" giving bonus to invuln save?
The rumor is "Nemesis Force Weapons".
And halberds are still weapons. 
30356
Post by: Jaon
This army is going to be wiped off the board by darklance / plasma cannon spam!
I would have been fine if warding staves were 25pts a piece, but one per squad? Lame -.-
I would have added 3 to my Paladins, just so no small scale attacks did anything (rapid fire plasma guns, a plasma cannon), but now Im going to be taking HUGE losses if a demo cannon gets where it wants to be :/
Oh, I only lost 3 terminators? Correction: I lost 160 points worth of infantry. Thats 10 tactical marines and nothing to joke around about. The loss of warding staves is really crappy news.
I expect the Paladin Captain to be nothing less than Mephiston, albeit less cheesy (more army buffing) if hes going to cost 250+ points. No Marneus Calgars here.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
ph34r wrote:Who ever said anything about "Nemesis Force Swords" giving bonus to invuln save?
The rumor is "Nemesis Force Weapons".
And halberds are still weapons.
Roll your eyes back into your head chuckles. I see the disconnect.
BK didn't say that Nem Force Swords would give +'s to invuls... turns out that I did. And I base that conclusion on what I've read (where the other Nem weapons don't do that). Of course, in the rules I've read they could have restricted that ability only the sword to make the sword worth taking. Automatically Appended Next Post: Jaon wrote:This army is going to be wiped off the board by darklance / plasma cannon spam!
Really? Ya sure about that? How much of the Codex have you read?
Saying that this army is going to be 'wiped off the board by [insert something here]' makes about as much sense as saying ' GK's are going to wipe everyone off the board' or 'the Dreadknight looks terrible'. Why do none of these things make sense? Because we haven't seen any of them yet. We've seen rumours, reports, and really fething blurry pictures.
If we could somehow harness the power of all the people in this thread (and the previous one) jumping to conclusions we could power a rocket to Mars in a fething week...
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Post by: ph34r
One day during the blood angels' daily glitter ritual, Mephiston the once merely fabulous became Mephiston the paladin, his glitter fusing in a freak accident into an impenetrable silver suit of armor. Automatically Appended Next Post: H.B.M.C. wrote:ph34r wrote:Who ever said anything about "Nemesis Force Swords" giving bonus to invuln save?
The rumor is "Nemesis Force Weapons".
And halberds are still weapons.
Roll your eyes back into your head chuckles. I see the disconnect.
BK didn't say that Nem Force Swords would give +'s to invuls... turns out that I did. And I base that conclusion on what I've read (where the other Nem weapons don't do that). Of course, in the rules I've read they could have restricted that ability only the sword to make the sword worth taking.
If GW are going to have 85 different varieties of Nemesis Force Object, they are not going to leave one called Nemesis Force Weapon.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Matt Ward may be a terrible fluff writer, but he's not that bad.
Wait... Doom Fists... ok, yeah he is...
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Post by: Vhalyar
Jaon wrote:I expect the Paladin Captain to be nothing less than Mephiston, albeit less cheesy (more army buffing) if hes going to cost 250+ points. No Marneus Calgars here.
The "Paladin Captain" is Draigo. You can see his profile in first post and make your conclusions about him being Mephiston-grade or not
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
ph34r wrote:If GW are going to have 85 different varieties of Nemesis Force Object, they are not going to leave one called Nemesis Force Weapon.
Two problems here, and I'll make this quick before your eyes fall out of their sockets because of all the misplaced scorn.
Firstly, you assume that there is such a thing as a 'Nemesis Force Weapon' in the first place. Secondly, assuming that the Nemesis Force Weapon is an actual designation, you assume that the 'Nemesis Force Weapon' and the 'Nemesis Force Sword' are somehow different, where as a Nemesis Force Weapon could just be a generic name for the Sword. On top of that, and given how all the other types have special names and unique rules (Halberd, Falchions, Warding Staves, Daemon Hammer, etc.) are different to the more generic 'Nemesis Force Weapon', which within the plastic kit is represented via *gasp* a Sword! 
So this could go one of two ways:
1. Nemesis Force Weapon is a generic term and it applies to all weapons with the Nemesis designation (from Swords to DOOOOOOOOOOOOOM FISTS!).
2. The Nemesis Force Weapon is just the basic weapon all GK's have, and they upgrade from there, gaining the benefits of the Halberd/Falshion/etc., but losing the bonuses to the Invul save because they ditched their default 'weapon'.
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Post by: Deathly Angel
I'm a bit dissapointed with daemonhosts being demoted to a human statline, 1 wound and worst of all as a retinue character... But I guess if the codex is going to be themed around GK then it might be the only way to keep them in the book...
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Post by: ph34r
We shall see. Or I suppose someone could confirm? That would be nice.
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Post by: Jaon
H.B.M.C. wrote: Jaon wrote:This army is going to be wiped off the board by darklance / plasma cannon spam!
Really? Ya sure about that? How much of the Codex have you read? Saying that this army is going to be 'wiped off the board by [insert something here]' makes about as much sense as saying ' GK's are going to wipe everyone off the board' or 'the Dreadknight looks terrible'. Why do none of these things make sense? Because we haven't seen any of them yet. We've seen rumours, reports, and really fething blurry pictures. If we could somehow harness the power of all the people in this thread (and the previous one) jumping to conclusions we could power a rocket to Mars in a fething week...
HBMC, I have learnt that you do not appreciate hostility...and nor do I. Please show some respect to me. I am voicing my opinion, based on the new rumours. If you know so much, quit screwing around say it. And dont pull the "I cant, they will find and fire me" gak on me. EDIT: More over, I did explain EXACTLY why I believe they will be wiped of the board by plasma and ap 2 in general. And that reason is PAGK (with the loss* of teleporters) will be able to be bogged down easily, normal terminators have a (ranged) inv save of 5++, paladins are 4. With no storm shields and only one warding stave per squad max (almost to expensive to bother if you can only have one yeah?) there isnt much in the way of ranged survivability. Ok it takes 800 lasgun shots to kill a 10 man paladin squad, but it will take, as I said, roughly 3 plasma cannons (HELLO MR IMPERIAL GUARD) to take up to 200 points off board. Is my logic not sound (waits for HBMC's usual reply of "No, because I am right, and you are wrong", or maybe we will be treated to a "Ive seen the cover of the codex, maybe, so I can pretend to guess at knowing at guessing that theres a possible chance that they wont") *Loss in rumour sense, not in last codex sense. Automatically Appended Next Post: H.B.M.C. wrote:Jaon wrote:Hating that normal GK cant teleport. Hating.
They never could anyway. Termies could Teleport in. Tel Attack Squads could Teleport in. How is this any different? Did they take Teleport away from the GKT's?
I was under the impression they could buy teleporter packs, but now I see why my hate be mislead. I can make the FA troops scoring (can I not?) with grand strategy, meaning I can still use teleport attack squads and claim objectives. It was my simple belief, dear HBMC, that without teleporters, strike squads would be as slow as terminators, and as fragile as tactical marines. Albeit with a little more punch.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Jaon wrote:HBMC, I have learnt that you do not appreciate hostility...and nor do I. Please show some respect to me. I am voicing my opinion, based on the new rumours.
And I am calling that opinion uninformed. That's not a claim that I know more, nor is it hostility - it's just a general attitude of ' wait and see' and ' don't jump to conclusions'. Unilateral declarations of fact only make someone look foolish later on (like when I said the Optimus Dreadknight wasn't bigger than a Dread because I misread the description, or perhaps any post The Kan makes). So, saying that the GK's are boned, or saying the opposite doesn't really achieve much. I remember the first Tau rumours, where their Railguns were going to shoot through hills and decimate all tanks by turn 2. That turned out to be crap. These rumours are more fully formed than those Tau rumours, that much is certain, but I still think it is far too early to be claiming that this Codex can beat anyone or be beaten by everyone.
All I ask is patience.
Jaon wrote:If you know so much, quit screwing around say it. And dont pull the "I cant, they will find and fire me" gak on me.
Most of what I know is already out there. I said there would be Nemesis ****fists, and there were. I said they could be swapped for a Nemesis ********** (count the asterisks - G-R-E-A-T-S-W-O-R-D), and anything at this point that I know that you don't isn't only related to the GK Codex in a tangential way (ie. I believe that most of the Nem Force weapons won't provide +1 to Invul saves based upon what I've read, but that could be wrong). Once again I reiterate the fact that I have not seen the Codex, which is why units like the Ghost Knights and the inclusion of Hereticus/Xenos Inquisitors was a surprise to me. My knowledge in this regard is solely focused on the standard Grey Knights, their equipment, and the not any Special Characters or the ancillary units (although I did say that Coteaz would be needed to make Henchmen/Counts-As Stormy armies). I mean, there's a bit with the Purifiers being the 'lore keepers' of the Grey Knights and helping to keep Daemonic entities captive, but that may be common knowledge by now. I'm not sure. I honestly haven't really read all the details of the rules because - and this may come as a surprise - I don't care what they are. All I care about are the new models.
Jaon wrote:EDIT: More over, I did explain EXACTLY why I believe they will be wiped of the board by plasma and ap 2 in general. And that reason is PAGK (with the loss* of teleporters) will be able to be bogged down easily, normal terminators have a (ranged) inv save of 5++, paladins are 4. With no storm shields and only one warding stave per squad max (almost to expensive to bother if you can only have one yeah?) there isnt much in the way of ranged survivability. Ok it takes 800 lasgun shots to kill a 10 man paladin squad, but it will take, as I said, roughly 3 plasma cannons (HELLO MR IMPERIAL GUARD) to take up to 200 points off board.
You're comparing units in a vacuum, and this is the biggest problem with mathhammer. Mathhammer can only get you so far by working out the statistical probability of a unit surviving X or killing Y. But no plan survives contact with the enemy, and the assumption is made that the GK player will simply let the Guard player Plasma Cannon them off the table. I find this to be unlikely. It is more likely that the vulnerable-to-Plasma-Cannon unit will not be left in a position where it can actually be shot at by Plasma Cannons (or one would hope so) and therefore, once again, saying that the GK's are boned because of this is premature. You may be accurate as far as the numbers go - I won't deny that the Plasma Cannon will obliterate Mr. Paladin Squad - but that's all your numbers prove; a probable outcome based upon comparing stats. It's hardly a revelation - Termies die to Plasma? Wow! Who'da thunk it? - nor does it give us any sort of real insight into how a GK army will work on the table.
Jaon wrote:Is my logic not sound
From a number perspective it is, as I said, completely correct. I only question the application of these numbers. But I've already explained why above so I won't restate my position.
Jaon wrote:(waits for HBMC's usual reply of "No, because I am right, and you are wrong", or maybe we will be treated to a "Ive seen the cover of the codex, maybe, so I can pretend to guess at knowing at guessing that theres a possible chance that they wont")
I'm not 'right' about how effective or ineffective the GK's will be on the tabletop because I make no such claim either way. My only claim is that declaring them "Overpowered" or "Underpowered" is a waste of time because we don't know enough! And, again, I haven't seen the Codex. I just knew about all the weapons, some of the different units, the psychic powers, some new fluff and whatnot via other means.
Jaon wrote:I was under the impression they could buy teleporter packs, but now I see why my hate be mislead. I can make the FA troops scoring (can I not?) with grand strategy, meaning I can still use teleport attack squads and claim objectives. It was my simple belief, dear HBMC, that without teleporters, strike squads would be as slow as terminators, and as fragile as tactical marines. Albeit with a little more punch.
The conclusion I draw is that Strike Squads will be able to Teleport. Maybe not during the game, but at least onto the table as the analogous replacement for the old Teleport Attack Squad. What I've read of Strike Squads (or Interceptor Squads, or whatever they're called - I've seen them called both) indicates that Teleportation is a bit part of how they make war, and, for what it's worth, in the tiny pathetic blurry pictures we've seen the models appear to have fancy antennae coming from their back packs which seem to indicate personal teleporters.
I could be wrong, but I doubt it. Other than the mistakes I've made myself (like the size of the Dreadknight) everything else I know has proven to be 100% correct.
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Post by: Jaon
Well thanks for the clarification you make a good point about the plasma cannons, I may have wrongly placed my rage, but I still think a good guard player can get plasma where he wants, easily. lets just hope GK are quick
Now that we are on the same page, Id like to discuss your last point.
First off in all likelihood, those GK with the antennae may well be the fast attack choice GK. That much is up to speculation.
I have no doubt that PAGK will have a way of DSing onto the battlefield, and Id love it to be drop pods, but thats obviously not happening. Failing that, I hope its no scatter, or, failing that (tis very wishlisty) I would like to see that there is enough Scatter negating units that DSing onto the table isnt automatic suicide (the more likely outcome).
My worry (which is now more knowledge than a worry) is that PAGK cannot actually jump around once on the field, either by re-DSing (swooping hawks?) or moving like jump infantry. I think I was being a bit biased now that I think about it..
None the less, I expect nothing less than 12' in the movement phase move + once per game 30' move from GK teleport attack squads from the FA slots. To hell with walking
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Post by: Just Dave
Actually, if the rumour of the Justicar providing Hammerhand etc. is true, then I can see the warding stave being worth it in order to keep such a dude alive.
I'm pleased to hear that this 30" move isn't army-wide however, at the least it adds a it more 'finesse' to using this army. I'm gradually liking these rumours more and more, its beginning to seem more reasonable and balanced (dare I suggest such a thing) IMHO.
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Post by: Tek
I always thought that Storm Bolters gave one extra attack in CC anyway, as the rulebook describes that two one-handed weapons give that extra attack, and pistols are just one type of one-handed weapon. Storm bolters are already one-handed, right? Twin-Linked bolters however are not. That's my understanding...
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Post by: svendrex
Tek wrote:I always thought that Storm Bolters gave one extra attack in CC anyway, as the rulebook describes that two one-handed weapons give that extra attack, and pistols are just one type of one-handed weapon. Storm bolters are already one-handed, right? Twin-Linked bolters however are not. That's my understanding...
It has to be one handed Close Combat Weapon. Pistols are the only guns that are ALSO a close combat weapon.
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Post by: Cerebrium
Wow, that's a lot of new stuff. Lamenting the loss of PAGK teleporting, but it would be a tad overpowered if I'm honest. GK Drop Pods probably won't happen, but it would be cool if it did happen.
Same with the Warding Stave stuff. It would be overpowed, even if I'm lament to admit it.
I'm hoping for maybe a new Land Raider variant.
Also, more =][= stuff.
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Post by: Alpharius
Cerebrium wrote:Wow, that's a lot of new stuff. Lamenting the loss of PAGK teleporting, but it would be a tad overpowered if I'm honest. GK Drop Pods probably won't happen, but it would be cool if it did happen.
Wait - I thought we already figured out that NO PAGK's 'lost' the ability to teleport?
Didn't we?
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Post by: synack
We did, people simply aren't paying attention
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Post by: Cerebrium
Sorry, 2 pages of brand new stuff flying quite clearly over my head
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Post by: puma713
I"m breathing a bit easier after these rumor clarifications. Looks like no teleporting for the Gundams either, eh?
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Post by: sourclams
BoK wrote:*Unlike reported before by me and others GKT do not get Storms Shields (with very few exceptions). That means you are stuck with sucky +5 invul saves on termies. What you do get instead is all nemesis force weapons grant a +1 to all invul saves in assault. That means +4 saves in close combat.
So uh... Paladins become 3++ in CC? That's huge. Assuming that when charged Palas get 3 attacks per model, that's enough to take 8 man Terminator squads (Crusader size) down to 3 man Terminator squads. 3 remaining guys do about 4 wounds to the Paladins, Warding stave bounces 1, 2 save, and only one model dies. If Draigo is with the squad then very good chance that the Termis lose 6/8 and the remaining 6 attacks all bounce.
Crusader Terminator squads were a very good counter to Paladin deathstars. Now, not nearly so much. That's a big deal.
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Post by: synack
puma713 wrote:I"m breathing a bit easier after these rumor clarifications. Looks like no teleporting for the Gundams either, eh?
*sigh*
The ONLY thing that has changed is that PAGK who take teleporters are FA choices. There was no mention of anything changing with regards to DKs taking teleporters. So as far as we know, DK's can still take them.
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Post by: sourclams
puma713 wrote:I"m breathing a bit easier after these rumor clarifications. Looks like no teleporting for the Gundams either, eh?
Don't know where I sit on that one. It's either no teleporting or no jump pack movement. The former does seem more likely.
They can still be scouted, though. Doesn't make for nearly as devastating an alpha strike (1-3 Pala squads + Draigo + 3 Megatrons) but still very vicious flanking force and keeps your opponent bottled on certain deployments.
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Post by: AgeOfEgos
sourclams wrote:BoK wrote:*Unlike reported before by me and others GKT do not get Storms Shields (with very few exceptions). That means you are stuck with sucky +5 invul saves on termies. What you do get instead is all nemesis force weapons grant a +1 to all invul saves in assault. That means +4 saves in close combat.
So uh... Paladins become 3++ in CC? That's huge. Assuming that when charged Palas get 3 attacks per model, that's enough to take 8 man Terminator squads (Crusader size) down to 3 man Terminator squads. 3 remaining guys do about 4 wounds to the Paladins, Warding stave bounces 1, 2 save, and only one model dies. If Draigo is with the squad then very good chance that the Termis lose 6/8 and the remaining 6 attacks all bounce.
Crusader Terminator squads were a very good counter to Paladin deathstars. Now, not nearly so much. That's a big deal.
No doubt, if that is true I think it's better than previous rumors. Before, you would pay 25 pts for a 2++ in close combat. Now they come with a free 3++. Even against shooting, that's only 16% less saves than a TH/ SS unit.
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Post by: synack
AgeOfEgos wrote:Now they come with a free 3++. Even against shooting, that's only 16% less saves than a TH/SS unit.
Where has it been said that Paladins have a 4++, everything I have seen says they have a 5++ after people asked multiple people and every time it has been said they have a 5++.
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Post by: puma713
synack wrote:puma713 wrote:I"m breathing a bit easier after these rumor clarifications. Looks like no teleporting for the Gundams either, eh?
*sigh*
Really? lol
synack wrote:The ONLY thing that has changed is that PAGK who take teleporters are FA choices. There was no mention of anything changing with regards to DKs taking teleporters. So as far as we know, DK's can still take them.
Here's what was written:
BoK wrote:The whole Teleporting Grey Knight once per game thing
BoK wrote: is for the Grey Knight squads in the Fast Attack slot.
That says to me - "You know the mechanic that everyone is talking about where units can teleport once per game, 30" away, yadda yadda yadda?"
"Yeah."
"Well only Grey Knight Squads in the Fast Attack slot can do that."
"Ah, so no one else?"
"Only Grey Knight Squads in the Fast Attack slot can do that."
". . ."
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Post by: sourclams
synack wrote:
Where has it been said that Paladins have a 4++, everything I have seen says they have a 5++ after people asked multiple people and every time it has been said they have a 5++.
From Pg1:
Paladin Terminator: WS5 BS4 S4 T4 W2 I4 A2 Ld10 Sv 2+/4++ Points 55
And let's be clear: For a 55 pt, 2 wound infantry model with base 4 stats and no EW, Paladins need a 4++ minimum. You simply cannot spend 55 points on a move 6", assault 6" dude that dies to a lascannon 2/3 of the time.
Even SW missile lists will eat these guys for lunch. 30 MLs kill ~3 Palas a turn. They've got to stand up better in CC to make up for it.
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Post by: puma713
sourclams wrote:synack wrote:
Where has it been said that Paladins have a 4++, everything I have seen says they have a 5++ after people asked multiple people and every time it has been said they have a 5++.
From Pg1:
Paladin Terminator: WS5 BS4 S4 T4 W2 I4 A2 Ld10 Sv 2+/4++ Points 55
And let's be clear: For a 55 pt, 2 wound infantry model with base 4 stats and no EW, Paladins need a 4++ minimum. You simply cannot spend 55 points on a move 6", assault 6" dude that dies to a lascannon 2/3 of the time.
Agreed. If the BoK rumor clarifications are right and it is 600-800 pts. a squad, then they better have a save that's better than 2+/5++ like a normal termi.
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Post by: AgeOfEgos
sourclams wrote:synack wrote:
Where has it been said that Paladins have a 4++, everything I have seen says they have a 5++ after people asked multiple people and every time it has been said they have a 5++.
From Pg1:
Paladin Terminator: WS5 BS4 S4 T4 W2 I4 A2 Ld10 Sv 2+/4++ Points 55
And let's be clear: For a 55 pt, 2 wound infantry model with base 4 stats and no EW, Paladins need a 4++ minimum. You simply cannot spend 55 points on a move 6", assault 6" dude that dies to a lascannon 2/3 of the time.
Even SW missile lists will eat these guys for lunch. 30 MLs kill ~3 Palas a turn. They've got to stand up better in CC to make up for it.
I think because of ML spam in so many lists, speed and the fact you may not be able to differentiate very large units.......you'll still need to take a smaller squad and load them in a Raider.
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Post by: Redemption
synack wrote:AgeOfEgos wrote:Now they come with a free 3++. Even against shooting, that's only 16% less saves than a TH/SS unit.
Where has it been said that Paladins have a 4++, everything I have seen says they have a 5++ after people asked multiple people and every time it has been said they have a 5++.
Regular GK Terminators and the Ghost Terminators had the 5++, Paladins have the 4++. According to the rumours anyway.
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Post by: Hulksmash
I'm probably going to avoid termies entirely honestly. It's going to depend on the codex but I'm thinking the nastiest lists based on rumors are gonna be based heavily on the PAGK.
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Post by: sourclams
Are you lumping Purifiers in with PAGK?
PAGK in rhinos certainly look doable, but they don't scream "best thing" at me. Purifiers are darn scary tho; a PA legion seems very possible.
What I like about the Paladins is not that GK have to build a tiny elite list, but that they can. Psychic powers and a solid CC unit can make a 1,000 pt Deathstar fight even better than a 1,000 pt Deathstar. That it can start 18" away from your lines on T1 is even better.
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Post by: Target
Hulksmash wrote:I'm probably going to avoid termies entirely honestly. It's going to depend on the codex but I'm thinking the nastiest lists based on rumors are gonna be based heavily on the PAGK.
My opinion as well, I started planning a PAGK build a couple months ago based on some whisperings, and am happily surprised with how the rumors are panning out so far. It'll likely be what I bring to the Invitational/Nova in general.
Also, I have a newfound respect for your admech army (which I already thought was pretty awesome). I'm doing a custom GK's force and sculpting/casting shoulder pads, storm bolters, backpacks and heads...and I think just building and converting the army is taking me as much time as painting a typical one.
edit: to sourclams - I'm lumping purifiers in with GKSS when I saw PAGK, personally
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Post by: ductvader
So maybe I read the past two pages a bit fast...can someone clarify for me if we think even stock GKs get a 6+ invulnerable in CC?
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Post by: synack
puma713 wrote:
That says to me - "You know the mechanic that everyone is talking about where units can teleport once per game, 30" away, yadda yadda yadda?"
"Yeah."
"Well only Grey Knight Squads in the Fast Attack slot can do that."
"Ah, so no one else?"
"Only Grey Knight Squads in the Fast Attack slot can do that."
". . ."
Yes, he says Grey Knight. Not once does he mention the Dread Knight. So that says the Troop choice teleporters are not in, but they are in the FA attack slot. DK's can still take teleporters (as per rumours) since he didn't debunk it.
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Post by: puma713
sourclams wrote: Purifiers are darn scary tho; a PA legion seems very possible.
I agree. The first time I read the GK info on HERO's blog, the first thing that jumped out at me was Crowe and a Purifier army.
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Post by: ductvader
Hm...can you take Dreadknights as a fast choice...?
Oh goodness I hope so.
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Post by: puma713
synack wrote:DK's can still take teleporters (as per rumours) since he didn't debunk it.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Automatically Appended Next Post: ductvader wrote:Hm...can you take Dreadknights as a fast choice...?
Right, this was my thought - that BoK isn't talking about just "Grey Knights", but the Grey Knight Codex, when he's talking about "the Grey Knight teleporter thing".
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Post by: Gibbsey
puma713 wrote:sourclams wrote: Purifiers are darn scary tho; a PA legion seems very possible.
I agree. The first time I read the GK info on HERO's blog, the first thing that jumped out at me was Crowe and a Purifier army.
That just looks like an awesome army....
Maybe some Rhino spam, give the squad 2 psycannons and they can fire out of the rhino right?
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Post by: ductvader
puma713 wrote:sourclams wrote: Purifiers are darn scary tho; a PA legion seems very possible.
I agree. The first time I read the GK info on HERO's blog, the first thing that jumped out at me was Crowe and a Purifier army.
30 hormagaunts with adrenal and toxin charge crowe
cleansing flame-12 dead
crowe does his MC hammer "can't touch this" dance rerollable saves
gaunts cause 0-1 wounds and crowe
11 fearless saves...9 more gaunts dead...
rinse and repeat...i like crowe
150 points and can accept the charge and live well enough against a horde of gaunts Automatically Appended Next Post: puma713 wrote:synack wrote:DK's can still take teleporters (as per rumours) since he didn't debunk it.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ductvader wrote:Hm...can you take Dreadknights as a fast choice...?
Right, this was my thought - that BoK isn't talking about just "Grey Knights", but the Grey Knight Codex, when he's talking about "the Grey Knight teleporter thing".
Makes sense based on the old codex...teleporting GKs were fast attack...with the exception of Terminators of course...if dreadknights can be fast...oh sick nasty awesomeness combined with purgation squads and some scoring henchmen...
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Post by: Hulksmash
@targetawg
I look forward to seeing it at Nova. Sounds awesome! The only problem I have with custom armies is getting up the drive to add to them once they're done I keep having ideas for my Admech Daemons but just can't for the life of me drum up the drive to convert and build the new models
Funny thing is I'm considering the GK's for Nova as well. An all foot army no less but that could change based on the actual book but I figure 4 months is enough time for me to truly work out my list of doom!
@Sourclams
Yeah, I'm consider all PAGK units which includes purifiers and purgation squads. I'm thinking a Grandmaster w/Grand Strategy is gonna help there
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Post by: sourclams
ductvader wrote:puma713 wrote:sourclams wrote: Purifiers are darn scary tho; a PA legion seems very possible.
I agree. The first time I read the GK info on HERO's blog, the first thing that jumped out at me was Crowe and a Purifier army.
30 hormagaunts with adrenal and toxin charge crowe
cleansing flame-12 dead
crowe does his MC hammer "can't touch this" dance rerollable saves
gaunts cause 0-1 wounds and crowe
11 fearless saves...9 more gaunts dead...
rinse and repeat...i like crowe
150 points and can accept the charge and live well enough against a horde of gaunts
Orks and other CC nasties, like Wyches, too. NFW +1 Invul would give him a rerollable 3++. Even without EW he doesn't worry about the PK Nob. He can rout pretty much any 'bucket o' dice' cc unit as long as it has a weak-ish save.
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Post by: Target
Hulksmash wrote:@targetawg
I look forward to seeing it at Nova. Sounds awesome! The only problem I have with custom armies is getting up the drive to add to them once they're done I keep having ideas for my Admech Daemons but just can't for the life of me drum up the drive to convert and build the new models
Funny thing is I'm considering the GK's for Nova as well. An all foot army no less but that could change based on the actual book but I figure 4 months is enough time for me to truly work out my list of doom!
@Sourclams
Yeah, I'm consider all PAGK units which includes purifiers and purgation squads. I'm thinking a Grandmaster w/Grand Strategy is gonna help there
We may have very similar armies then, the 2 builds I'm kicking around in my head either feature 0 tanks, or 2 just as outflanking targets from the GM strategy. And no termies. I'll stick with the sexy and cheap PAGK!
25360
Post by: ductvader
Need moar incinerators...need moar psycannons!
Have about a dozen of each and never thought I would come across the issue of scarcity.
6872
Post by: sourclams
The wording on Lord Draigo's Titan Sword will be interesting. If it's a nemesis force noun, then he'll effectively have the 2++ as well. It doesn't look like this is how it works currently, but it's something to keep in mind.
33586
Post by: Cerebrium
The more I heard about Crowe, the more he seems the "competitive" choice. Although there will always been the elephant in the room, Draigo.
I'm just waiting to see if Inquisitors can be HQs.
8305
Post by: Daba
This Codex sounds nuts.
6872
Post by: sourclams
They always sound nuts. By my estimation this codex actually sounds a lot less nuts than SW or Nids prior to release.
33586
Post by: Cerebrium
Yeah, some of the rumours for the 5th ed 'Nid book were abject madness. Like "why did we ever think that was possible" madness.
19754
Post by: puma713
Cerebrium wrote:Yeah, some of the rumours for the 5th ed 'Nid book were abject madness. Like "why did we ever think that was possible" madness.
Like Primes being able to attach in Spore Pods?! I KNOW RIGHT?!?!?!
19377
Post by: Grundz
puma713 wrote:Cerebrium wrote:Yeah, some of the rumours for the 5th ed 'Nid book were abject madness. Like "why did we ever think that was possible" madness.
Like Primes being able to attach in Spore Pods?! I KNOW RIGHT?!?!?!
yeah, I dont know what we were thinking.
1084
Post by: Agamemnon2
Even the Guard book, lackluster as it is, had its share of outrageous rumors. Among them was the short-lived idea you could join Command Squads into infantry blobs and thus extend Medi-packs to cover 25+ models at once. Big blobs of FNP. On hindsight, I'd've preferred that to have been the dominant archetype, instead of Mech spam.
17072
Post by: crazypsyko666
sourclams wrote:BoK wrote:*Unlike reported before by me and others GKT do not get Storms Shields (with very few exceptions). That means you are stuck with sucky +5 invul saves on termies. What you do get instead is all nemesis force weapons grant a +1 to all invul saves in assault. That means +4 saves in close combat.
So uh... Paladins become 3++ in CC? That's huge. Assuming that when charged Palas get 3 attacks per model, that's enough to take 8 man Terminator squads (Crusader size) down to 3 man Terminator squads. 3 remaining guys do about 4 wounds to the Paladins, Warding stave bounces 1, 2 save, and only one model dies. If Draigo is with the squad then very good chance that the Termis lose 6/8 and the remaining 6 attacks all bounce.
Crusader Terminator squads were a very good counter to Paladin deathstars. Now, not nearly so much. That's a big deal.
That's also a lot more killpoints if your plan fails, as good as it sounds.
6872
Post by: sourclams
Huh? Draigo Superbestfriends is somewhere around 7 Kill Points in total. Kill Points are not a problem for a list with 20 models.
20650
Post by: Pyriel-
*Nemesis Ward Staff can be only bought for one Grey Knight per squad. So that means only one will be able to take one of those mean wounds.
*Unlike reported before by me and others GKT do not get Storms Shields (with very few exceptions). That means you are stuck with sucky +5 invul saves on termies. What you do get instead is all nemesis force weapons grant a +1 to all invul saves in assault. That means +4 saves in close combat.
Thats bad, the so called elite GK terminators will actually be worse while being more expensive then both SM terminator heavy armies, deathwing and loganwing.
So much for the eliteness, the fewer model count is there but the staying power is worse for some reason.
*The worst change that I hinted at back when I first reported the rumors last year. The whole Teleporting Grey Knight once per game thing is for the Grey Knight squads in the Fast Attack slot. That means those guys and the Stormraven are your only FA choices in the entire codex. Normal GKs will not be able to teleport in the game.
lol
I guessed correctly.
This army is going to be wiped off the board by darklance / plasma cannon spam!
I would have been fine if warding staves were 25pts a piece, but one per squad? Lame -.-
I would have added 3 to my Paladins, just so no small scale attacks did anything (rapid fire plasma guns, a plasma cannon), but now Im going to be taking HUGE losses if a demo cannon gets where it wants to be :/
Oh, I only lost 3 terminators? Correction: I lost 160 points worth of infantry. Thats 10 tactical marines and nothing to joke around about. The loss of warding staves is really crappy news.
This. GKs are still going to be the underdogs of 40k except for 1-2 cheesy builds that is.
So much for my hopes of a competitive GK army.
GKs will wipe orks of the table but be pretty much owned in return by the rest. Any terminator squad out there will mean a very steep uphill battle for GK armies unless they get rending stormbolters as upgrade.
EDIT: More over, I did explain EXACTLY why I believe they will be wiped of the board by plasma and ap 2 in general. And that reason is PAGK (with the loss* of teleporters) will be able to be bogged down easily, normal terminators have a (ranged) inv save of 5++, paladins are 4. With no storm shields and only one warding stave per squad max (almost to expensive to bother if you can only have one yeah?) there isnt much in the way of ranged survivability. Ok it takes 800 lasgun shots to kill a 10 man paladin squad, but it will take, as I said, roughly 3 plasma cannons (HELLO MR IMPERIAL GUARD) to take up to 200 points off board.
Or one of the frequent hammer termie squad but you are pot on.
GKs, especially terminator heavy builds will be completely owned by shooting.
I dont even understand why there is an option to take normal GK Termie squads even, they are so crappy for what they cost its the current GK codex all over.
it's just a general attitude of 'wait and see' and 'don't jump to conclusions'.
What more news could possibly repair the bad news above?
We know pretty much everything by now except for the odd wargear and what it does.
There is to small a chance that deamonhamemrs will actually increase shooty saves to 4++ on terminators etc.
You're comparing units in a vacuum, and this is the biggest problem with mathhammer
Thats what I dont quite understand, I mean GK will have some rending and a lot of normal bolters plus powerful melee but z e are o staying power vs AP2-3.
Other armies, SM for example, have no problem spamming plasma AND throwing in a healthy amount of stormshields to negate the GK rending in return.
GK have nothing to counter that with except 3 units that reach melee in no time at all and then what?
TO me it seems that instead of not only keeping the AV weakness of the current GK codex (no survivability vs shooting tanks) GW also added a new and even bigger weakness on top of that, no survivability vs AP 1-2-3 weapons and no survivability vs multiple fist-type weapons in emlee.
I fully expect stormbolters to be rending with an upgrade or GKs are truly kept on the bottom again.
That or locator beacons being plentiful so that your jumpers can actually decrease exposure time vs AP 1-2-3 weapons accordingly.
GKs need to be in melee as fast as possible and remain there throught out the game.
I'm probably going to avoid termies entirely honestly. It's going to depend on the codex but I'm thinking the nastiest lists based on rumors are gonna be based heavily on the PAGK.
Seems logical. GK termies are worse then SM termies ffs.
35973
Post by: Gibbsey
sourclams wrote:Huh? Draigo Superbestfriends is somewhere around 7 Kill Points in total. Kill Points are not a problem for a list with 20 models.
How many points for that list
6872
Post by: sourclams
2k. Again, KP are not the problem. Whether or not they can kill vehicles quickly enough to get at the guys inside will be the problem, as always.
17072
Post by: crazypsyko666
It seems to me that blobbing them, or putting them in LR and playing the waiting game is the way to go IF you play Draigo (which doesn't seem likely. He doesn't impress me very much).
EDIT: Scratch that, just LR spam on top of it.
19377
Post by: Grundz
crazypsyko666 wrote:It seems to me that blobbing them, or putting them in LR and playing the waiting game is the way to go IF you play Draigo (which doesn't seem likely. He doesn't impress me very much).
EDIT: Scratch that, just LR spam on top of it.
pretty much
if paladins were T5 this would be a moot point as they wouldnt be obliterated by fists and rocket launchers which are way, way too common in some armies IMHO
stormbolters by the dozens can put down alot of hurt, I'm really looking forward to the fast attack stormbolter squads, purifiers, and such running support for the terminator hammer.
With vindicare's popping the dangerous units out of squads I dont see it being a big deal that termies are a little vulnerable to plasma, but if they are hiding in vehicles, thats an issue.
I wonder if the +1 invulnerable save applies to the dreadknight, giving him a 2+3++ 7toughness brick of doom.
6872
Post by: sourclams
If Draigo and two Palastars are in LR, and Draigo makes them both Scouts, the LRs would receive the benefit as well, right? So you could be looking at first turn charges?
Just musing out loud.
19377
Post by: Grundz
sourclams wrote:If Draigo and two Palastars are in LR, and Draigo makes them both Scouts, the LRs would receive the benefit as well, right? So you could be looking at first turn charges?
Just musing out loud.
Depends on the rule wording.
If you can give /anything/ scout, I think you could give it to the land raider and fill it with anything you wanted
15829
Post by: Redemption
Current rumours state Grand Masters can't give vehicles Scouts, so it depends on whether or not the Land Raider is a dedicated transport if it can gain Scouts vicariously.
2764
Post by: AgeOfEgos
sourclams wrote:If Draigo and two Palastars are in LR, and Draigo makes them both Scouts, the LRs would receive the benefit as well, right? So you could be looking at first turn charges?
Just musing out loud.
I asked about that----can only give to units, not characters. But..you could first turn charge with the Paladins (without Draigo).
As an aside, every time I type Draigo, I think of this;
Whatever he hits, he destwoys!
35973
Post by: Gibbsey
sourclams wrote:2k. Again, KP are not the problem. Whether or not they can kill vehicles quickly enough to get at the guys inside will be the problem, as always.
well 3 squads is
HQ
Draigo 275
Troops
5 Paladins 275pts
-Land Raider Cruisader 250pts
6 Paladins 330pts
-Land Raider Cruisader 250pts
6 Paladins 330pts
-Land Raider Cruisader 250pts
1960pts (can also drop 2 Paladins and get 2 Apothecary upgrades)
Maybe just 2 crusaders?
HQ
Draigo 275
Troops
7 Paladins 460
-Apothecary
-Land raider Crusader 250
8 Paladins 515
-Apothecary
-Land raider Crusader 250
1750pts exactly (250pts of wargear for 2000)
17072
Post by: crazypsyko666
@sourclams: While what your saying IS possible, it's hard to get terminators in Close Combat and keep them there. Remember, there's no sweeping advance, so there's no chance of charging in against most armies and wiping enough of them off to ruin their day by running up and clearing them off of the board. It seems the best option is the old 'wait and camp' strategy of the old Daemonhunters pure GK army. Without the Shrouding (maybe), there's no shooting advantage, so they need to take some sort of armored transport that shots for them. There's also a fairly serious lack of anti-tank, which means that those will probably have to be Godhammer LRs, and correct me if I'm wrong, but does it look like there's going to be another serious anti-mech issue again in this book? Sure, psycannon spam might be able to knock out rhinos, chimeras (on the sides) and a few other cheap transports, and then the rest COULD be a turkey shoot from there, but what about Leeman Russ lists? Other LR spam? Am I the only one seeing this, or one who has this concern? With hammerhand reduced to merely +1 str, rather than giving us a powerfist and removing all of our other wargear for the turn, there isn't enough anti-tank in this CQC army.
5212
Post by: Gitzbitah
My, that was masterfully worded Redemption. It is so rare to see 'vicariously' used in a sentence. Bravo!
34172
Post by: Magister187
Credible rumours states it is only for Infantry, Jump Infantry, Walker or Monstrous Creatures. Tanks would not be allowed.
However, the other way, of giving the passengers scouts should work just fine (unless it specifies it doesn't).
15829
Post by: Redemption
Gitzbitah wrote:My, that was masterfully worded Redemption. It is so rare to see 'vicariously' used in a sentence. Bravo!
I aim to please. Though to be honest, I almost spelled it bicuriously... >.>
33586
Post by: Cerebrium
My god, my =][= army is actually looking decent, thanks to the fact that we can get lots of meltas and plasmas.
Also, if you want to compromise an all-GK army, you can take henchmen as elites for tank-hunting.
6872
Post by: sourclams
crazypsyko666 wrote:@sourclams: While what your saying IS possible, it's hard to get terminators in Close Combat and keep them there. Remember, there's no sweeping advance, so there's no chance of charging in against most armies and wiping enough of them off to ruin their day by running up and clearing them off of the board. ...There's also a fairly serious lack of anti-tank, which means that those will probably have to be Godhammer LRs, and correct me if I'm wrong, but does it look like there's going to be another serious anti-mech issue again in this book?
First off, I don't think that pure Draigo-Pala deathstar armies are actually going to be that good. I think they can work with skillful play and good list building, but I don't think they're the 'all that' build the codex will offer. Simply too many points in too few transports.
BUT. Mass psycannon spam will work. Backed up by a Vindicare or Henches, it will definitely work. and S7 rending psycannons will positively rip the nuts off of any vehicle wall out there.
Hammerhand is another monstrous ability when combined with Might of Titan. The way it looks, a Librarian Paladin squad is going to be running up with 30-40 attacks at S6+ 2d6 armor pen. A scouting 1st turn Land Raider Crusader charge against a mech wall will crush it.
I don't know how it'll all play out in the longer run, but I'm seeing some potential and some real first-turn-middle-fingers.
34172
Post by: Magister187
crazypsyko666 wrote:correct me if I'm wrong, but does it look like there's going to be another serious anti-mech issue again in this book? Sure, psycannon spam might be able to knock out rhinos, chimeras (on the sides) and a few other cheap transports, and then the rest COULD be a turkey shoot from there, but what about Leeman Russ lists? Other LR spam? Am I the only one seeing this, or one who has this concern? With hammerhand reduced to merely +1 str, rather than giving us a powerfist and removing all of our other wargear for the turn, there isn't enough anti-tank in this CQC army.
First, no, its been mentioned by so many people that there is a lack of long range anti-tank, I can't really believe you posed that question.
Second, they don't look like they will have much, f any issues with light/medium armour. Psycannons look to perform that role very well and can be taken in nearly every slot and in some cases ad nauseum. In addition, Dreadknights and MG packing Inquisitorial Henchmen will provide increased close range anti-tank. Btw, all GK infantry appear to have Krak grenades standard now (even terminators) which will give them enough CC punch against non-Walker, non- LR vehicles.
Also of note, the new Lbrarian Psychic Power which makes one unit absolutely frightening to any vehicle, Might of Titan. 20-30+ Str 6 + 2d6 Armour pen attacks? Yeah, that should wreck a tank.
19754
Post by: puma713
AgeOfEgos wrote:
Whatever he hits, he destwoys!
I must break you.
20867
Post by: Just Dave
And Grey Knights can take +1 strength ammunition, meaning Str 5 storm bolters which should be the bane of Dark Eldar and even Razorbacks.
Grey Knights have always had a problem against heavy armour, everyone knows it. At least now they can stand up to hordes and light-armour/mechanised.
17072
Post by: crazypsyko666
sourclams wrote:crazypsyko666 wrote:@sourclams: While what your saying IS possible, it's hard to get terminators in Close Combat and keep them there. Remember, there's no sweeping advance, so there's no chance of charging in against most armies and wiping enough of them off to ruin their day by running up and clearing them off of the board. ...There's also a fairly serious lack of anti-tank, which means that those will probably have to be Godhammer LRs, and correct me if I'm wrong, but does it look like there's going to be another serious anti-mech issue again in this book?
First off, I don't think that pure Draigo-Pala deathstar armies are actually going to be that good. I think they can work with skillful play and good list building, but I don't think they're the 'all that' build the codex will offer. Simply too many points in too few transports.
BUT. Mass psycannon spam will work. Backed up by a Vindicare or Henches, it will definitely work. and S7 rending psycannons will positively rip the nuts off of any vehicle wall out there.
Hammerhand is another monstrous ability when combined with Might of Titan. The way it looks, a Librarian Paladin squad is going to be running up with 30-40 attacks at S6+ 2d6 armor pen. A scouting 1st turn Land Raider Crusader charge against a mech wall will crush it.
I don't know how it'll all play out in the longer run, but I'm seeing some potential and some real first-turn-middle-fingers.
Agreed. I don't think there is a Draigo 'critical mass' so to speak. He's a stupidly cheesy and unfortunately underpowered unit at this stage of the rumors, who looks like he could use some leadership abilities, preferably ones that boost Paladins' survivability. In all honesty, I hope that apothecaries don't cost 75 points. I hope they cost less. FNP is one of the best USRs in the game, but I can't say it's worth that much. I'd rather take it as an armor upgrade, or something, unless I'm misreading it. Are they implying that an Apothecary costs 75+55 points, or that they cost 75 points? That's really going to be the question of whether they're worth it at all or not.
Speaking of Terminators, I was all giddy about being able to take an all-terminator army before, but now I'm seeing them as a sloggy, slow, unwieldy mess. If Storm Bolters don't count as pistols, they're not worth it at all. They'll die too quickly to enough of whatever's being thrown at them, and they're too sluggish to keep up with more mechanized armies. My guess is that they'll end up playing a lot like Daemons, of all things. We'll need to be ballsy with your drops, get in close, and smack them to bits turn two. That may actually be where these guys shine, using psychic communication on their deepstrikes, getting in around everyone and abusing retreats to destroy armies instead of sweeping advances to kill off the stragglers. It's risky, but it could work.
19377
Post by: Grundz
sourclams wrote:
First off, I don't think that pure Draigo-Pala deathstar armies are actually going to be that good. I think they can work with skillful play and good list building, but I don't think they're the 'all that' build the codex will offer. Simply too many points in too few transports.
This is why I like tourney lists that have to be balanced and prepared, a big paladin deathstar list might not be the best idea, but its a good enough idea that you should be prepared for it!
20867
Post by: Just Dave
crazypsyko666 wrote:Speaking of Terminators, I was all giddy about being able to take an all-terminator army before, but now I'm seeing them as a sloggy, slow, unwieldy mess. If Storm Bolters don't count as pistols, they're not worth it at all. They'll die too quickly to enough of whatever's being thrown at them, and they're too sluggish to keep up with more mechanized armies. My guess is that they'll end up playing a lot like Daemons, of all things. We'll need to be ballsy with your drops, get in close, and smack them to bits turn two. That may actually be where these guys shine, using psychic communication on their deepstrikes, getting in around everyone and abusing retreats to destroy armies instead of sweeping advances to kill off the stragglers. It's risky, but it could work.
As with most things, balance is best. All Terminator armies and all PAGK armies will probably both be good, but having a mix of both is probably best IMHO. You'll get the quality and the numbers, much like Double-wing and Logan-wing feilding PA IMHO.
26031
Post by: shealyr
What I'm wondering is, if you join Crowe with a unit of Purifiers, do you get to use Cleansing Flame twice? Once for Crowe and once for the squad EDIT: Oh, and I love the "Draigo is cheese!" calls. First, it's too early. Second, Dante is cheesy for making Sang Guard troops? And third, 275 points...
33586
Post by: Cerebrium
crazypsyko666 wrote:sourclams wrote:crazypsyko666 wrote:@sourclams: While what your saying IS possible, it's hard to get terminators in Close Combat and keep them there. Remember, there's no sweeping advance, so there's no chance of charging in against most armies and wiping enough of them off to ruin their day by running up and clearing them off of the board. ...There's also a fairly serious lack of anti-tank, which means that those will probably have to be Godhammer LRs, and correct me if I'm wrong, but does it look like there's going to be another serious anti-mech issue again in this book?
First off, I don't think that pure Draigo-Pala deathstar armies are actually going to be that good. I think they can work with skillful play and good list building, but I don't think they're the 'all that' build the codex will offer. Simply too many points in too few transports.
BUT. Mass psycannon spam will work. Backed up by a Vindicare or Henches, it will definitely work. and S7 rending psycannons will positively rip the nuts off of any vehicle wall out there.
Hammerhand is another monstrous ability when combined with Might of Titan. The way it looks, a Librarian Paladin squad is going to be running up with 30-40 attacks at S6+ 2d6 armor pen. A scouting 1st turn Land Raider Crusader charge against a mech wall will crush it.
I don't know how it'll all play out in the longer run, but I'm seeing some potential and some real first-turn-middle-fingers.
Agreed. I don't think there is a Draigo 'critical mass' so to speak. He's a stupidly cheesy and unfortunately underpowered unit at this stage of the rumors, who looks like he could use some leadership abilities, preferably ones that boost Paladins' survivability. In all honesty, I hope that apothecaries don't cost 75 points. I hope they cost less. FNP is one of the best USRs in the game, but I can't say it's worth that much. I'd rather take it as an armor upgrade, or something, unless I'm misreading it. Are they implying that an Apothecary costs 75+55 points, or that they cost 75 points? That's really going to be the question of whether they're worth it at all or not.
Speaking of Terminators, I was all giddy about being able to take an all-terminator army before, but now I'm seeing them as a sloggy, slow, unwieldy mess. If Storm Bolters don't count as pistols, they're not worth it at all. They'll die too quickly to enough of whatever's being thrown at them, and they're too sluggish to keep up with more mechanized armies. My guess is that they'll end up playing a lot like Daemons, of all things. We'll need to be ballsy with your drops, get in close, and smack them to bits turn two. That may actually be where these guys shine, using psychic communication on their deepstrikes, getting in around everyone and abusing retreats to destroy armies instead of sweeping advances to kill off the stragglers. It's risky, but it could work.
Pretty much. It's ironic that they're the ordo MALLEUS, because I see their playstyle as a sledgehammer. You just need to use the momentum of such massive weight to break through any enemy. Get on the table ASAP and get the game over by turn 4 because you will lose in a protracted battle. Just pick one point to hit and throw your weight into it.
17072
Post by: crazypsyko666
Magister187 wrote:First, no, its been mentioned by so many people that there is a lack of long range anti-tank, I can't really believe you posed that question.
Second, they don't look like they will have much, f any issues with light/medium armour. Psycannons look to perform that role very well and can be taken in nearly every slot and in some cases ad nauseum. In addition, Dreadknights and MG packing Inquisitorial Henchmen will provide increased close range anti-tank. Btw, all GK infantry appear to have Krak grenades standard now (even terminators) which will give them enough CC punch against non-Walker, non-LR vehicles.
Also of note, the new Lbrarian Psychic Power which makes one unit absolutely frightening to any vehicle, Might of Titan. 20-30+ Str 6 +2d6 Armour pen attacks? Yeah, that should wreck a tank.
You're assuming that we can get in close against an army like that and survive the initial barrage well enough wipe their tanks off of the board. With enough blast spam (which you can get with any IG army) your librarian is probably as good as gone before it gets close enough to do anything really effective, not to mention that's one tank a turn, for a guy who looks like he's going to cost 150 and attract almost every gun on the field. The question is going to be cost, mobility and survivability, so with an army that has as few models as this one, they'd better be damn fast to be effective.
P.S., don't be a dick. It's not as hard as it sounds.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Cerebrium: That's not ironic! That's awesome! If that's true, that means they've fully realised their fluff into playstyle, and hopefully in a way that makes them playable. I could not want anything more than for every army to be cheesy and playable. Automatically Appended Next Post: Does anyone know which units will be able to use their NFWs as Force Weapons (with the instant obliteration?) Automatically Appended Next Post: Shealyr, I said 'at this stage of the rumors' in reference to Draigo. Please read more carefully.
33586
Post by: Cerebrium
It is very awesome. I'll still be content with my Inquisitorial diva-demands, though
8617
Post by: Hulksmash
@crazypsyko666
I'd calm down just a bit dude. Your making gross generalizations of a book that isn't out yet. I'd say you can safely fit in, based on the rumors, 40-50 PAGKS of various types, 2 T7 MC's, a GM and a Libby. Included in that would be about 10-12 Psycannons and 2 Heavy Psycannons. I don't think GK's are going to be non-competitive at all honestly but I don't think they are gonna be OTT. I think they are gonna be a standard 5th Edition codex like everything else released.
17072
Post by: crazypsyko666
For some reason, the first thing I thought of was Divo and their street-cone style hats. I'm seeing a potential army conversion in the coming future...
33586
Post by: Cerebrium
That would make no sense, but brilliant none-the-less.
It's Devo, by the way
13937
Post by: BrassScorpion
And those were flower pots, not street cones.
17072
Post by: crazypsyko666
Hulksmash wrote:@crazypsyko666
I'd calm down just a bit dude. Your making gross generalizations of a book that isn't out yet. I'd say you can safely fit in, based on the rumors, 40-50 PAGKS of various types, 2 T7 MC's, a GM and a Libby. Included in that would be about 10-12 Psycannons and 2 Heavy Psycannons. I don't think GK's are going to be non-competitive at all honestly but I don't think they are gonna be OTT. I think they are gonna be a standard 5th Edition codex like everything else released.
I do try to come across as though I'm just extrapolating on whatever we have, but I'll try to cool it a little bit. As for the PAGK, that's the unit I don't think we should be talking about, since the description is so vague, and at this point, easily confused with the FA variant. I'm not even sure the PAGK will be a troops choice, at this point. They may just be specialists, based on the rumors we're getting.
34456
Post by: ColdSadHungry
crazypsyko666 wrote:@sourclams: While what your saying IS possible, it's hard to get terminators in Close Combat and keep them there. Remember, there's no sweeping advance, so there's no chance of charging in against most armies and wiping enough of them off to ruin their day by running up and clearing them off of the board. It seems the best option is the old 'wait and camp' strategy of the old Daemonhunters pure GK army. Without the Shrouding (maybe), there's no shooting advantage, so they need to take some sort of armored transport that shots for them. There's also a fairly serious lack of anti-tank, which means that those will probably have to be Godhammer LRs, and correct me if I'm wrong, but does it look like there's going to be another serious anti-mech issue again in this book? Sure, psycannon spam might be able to knock out rhinos, chimeras (on the sides) and a few other cheap transports, and then the rest COULD be a turkey shoot from there, but what about Leeman Russ lists? Other LR spam? Am I the only one seeing this, or one who has this concern? With hammerhand reduced to merely +1 str, rather than giving us a powerfist and removing all of our other wargear for the turn, there isn't enough anti-tank in this CQC army.
Yeah, the new codex sounds like it's definitely going to reward a more aggressive player than one using the old stay back and shoot tactics; the term 'seize the initiative' springs to mind for me with the new GK codex.
Also, everyone must by now have seen the psycannon profile; is that just the profile for a terminator or does it mean that regular PAGK can move and shoot with them?
25360
Post by: ductvader
@shealyr "What I'm wondering is, if you join Crowe with a unit of Purifiers, do you get to use Cleansing Flame twice? Once for Crowe and once for the squad"
I very much doubt it...but probably works however flechette dischargers work during a multi assault...anyone?
Okay...now you can use a psychic power per turn or player turn?
And if Crowe dies...can he use the sacrifice if he used cleansing flame?
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Also as to the paladion apothecary...as it is statesd here...replaces a paladin...so not 55+75...just 75.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Jaon wrote:None the less, I expect nothing less than 12' in the movement phase move + once per game 30' move from GK teleport attack squads from the FA slots. To hell with walking
Well there's always The Summoning. Not sure who can get that, but that allows you to move things around the table.
17072
Post by: crazypsyko666
ColdSadHungry wrote:crazypsyko666 wrote:@sourclams: While what your saying IS possible, it's hard to get terminators in Close Combat and keep them there. Remember, there's no sweeping advance, so there's no chance of charging in against most armies and wiping enough of them off to ruin their day by running up and clearing them off of the board. It seems the best option is the old 'wait and camp' strategy of the old Daemonhunters pure GK army. Without the Shrouding (maybe), there's no shooting advantage, so they need to take some sort of armored transport that shots for them. There's also a fairly serious lack of anti-tank, which means that those will probably have to be Godhammer LRs, and correct me if I'm wrong, but does it look like there's going to be another serious anti-mech issue again in this book? Sure, psycannon spam might be able to knock out rhinos, chimeras (on the sides) and a few other cheap transports, and then the rest COULD be a turkey shoot from there, but what about Leeman Russ lists? Other LR spam? Am I the only one seeing this, or one who has this concern? With hammerhand reduced to merely +1 str, rather than giving us a powerfist and removing all of our other wargear for the turn, there isn't enough anti-tank in this CQC army.
Yeah, the new codex sounds like it's definitely going to reward a more aggressive player than one using the old stay back and shoot tactics; the term 'seize the initiative' springs to mind for me with the new GK codex.
Also, everyone must by now have seen the psycannon profile; is that just the profile for a terminator or does it mean that regular PAGK can move and shoot with them?
Terminators can move and shoot heavy weapons anyways, so the assault is probably going to be fairly moot if it turns into a shooting army. But, yes. The PAGK are subject to the Assault 2 profile according to this.
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Post by: sourclams
ColdSadHungry wrote:Also, everyone must by now have seen the psycannon profile; is that just the profile for a terminator or does it mean that regular PAGK can move and shoot with them?
Termies are relentless so they would only ever shoot the 3 shots. The assault 2 mode would be strictly for non-relentless models.
25360
Post by: ductvader
Don't know when the rumor switched from heavy 4 to heavy 3...all I saw was 4 4 4 until this thread started with it saying three.
35973
Post by: Gibbsey
What about this army...
HQ
Castellan Garran Crowe 150pts
Troops
9 Purifiers 296pts (leave room for crowe)
-2 x psycannons (20pts?)
-rhino
10 Purifiers 320pts
-2 x psycannons (20pts?)
-rhino
10 Purifiers 320pts
-2 x psycannons (20pts?)
-rhino
10 Purifiers 320pts
-2 x psycannons (20pts?)
-rhino
10 Purifiers 320pts
-2 x psycannons (20pts?)
-rhino
Total: 1726pts
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Post by: crazypsyko666
@Gibbsey: While potentially very powerful, I'd still put in a Landraider or two in. That may just be old habits, though. Let me do some mathhammer on the psycannon and I'll get back to you.
EDIT: Against AV 13, you've got about a 16% chance for penetration per squad. It's going to be an uphill battle against heavy tanks, so I'll stick to my guns and say a Godhammer LR is still going to be our best bet. It looks like you've got enough room to afford it, though. Hell, knock off one squad, that's one, if it's a 2k point game, there's number two. After that, it all depends on how much of an ass you want to be.
Still, it's nice to see the potential for a non-footslogging GK army, though I'm still concerned that no one may be able to take Rhinos, like in the last codex. It doesn't seem to specify, so I'll call this one on hopeful speculation.
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Post by: Hulksmash
@Gibbsey
It's to one dimensional. I don't think you need a ton of Purifiers honestly. 1-2 units should be fine and then stick with the cheaper standard PAGK's. And you can get a normal Grandmaster and those 1-2 units will likely still be scoring.
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Post by: ductvader
It's smarter to put crowe in something like a strike force anyways...give them cleansing flame for free...
incinerators are free...utilize them
you can't take the two special weapons unless you have 10 guys...it's not like it used to be/is now
Anyone have the what counts as daemons info? Is the avatar still in there?
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Also...take halberds...I5 and that many attacks happening after cleansing flame for only 20 points...too good to pass up
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Post by: sourclams
I'm running into a "soft limit" in my list building with PAGK forces.
GMs, either normal or special chars, and the Librarian are the standouts to me because of special rules and the sheer utility of GK psypowers. I want scouting/scoring/counterattack, and I want Mind Blades/Hammerhand/Quicksilver.
But always being equipped with Terminator armor boners your transport options. They either footslog or go in LRs or SRs.
Trying to fit 150-200 point guys in that need 200-250 point transports in an army as ppm intensive as this one really cuts down on your list size in a big, big way.
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Post by: Hulksmash
I'm pretty much looking at all foot honestly. I think the utility of the librarian and his powers can make for a very reslient and nasty force. I did notice that his lack of power armor would make my mech spamish PAGK list not work as well but honestly I'd probably just put him near the Purgation squads I'd be fielding anyway For me it's either massively foot oriented or something like: 5 Strike Grey Knights w/Psycannon in Rhino for 160ptsx6
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Post by: Cerebrium
@ductvader Yep, as far as I know, Avatars are still classed as daemons. Anything with the daemon special rule, I would imagine, is affected.
@sourclams Yeah, it seems that this army needs an "everything in moderation" approach. Trying to make an army of termi-armoured models is going to be a VERY small army indeed.
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Post by: ductvader
Well for some units...if you take a Grand Master (Mordrack) character (you can scout/outflank) at least one unit with the possibility of more...
And if you do take Mordrack...you already have a big middle finger in their backfield turn one that just dual incinerated some unit and didn't have to scatter.
Or...take dreadknights for the biggest distraction in the world as you meander on over to your opponents to mop up whats left.
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I just love Mordrack for the...what just happened to my long fangs? effect he brings to the table...
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Post by: Target
Hulksmash wrote:I'm pretty much looking at all foot honestly. I think the utility of the librarian and his powers can make for a very reslient and nasty force. I did notice that his lack of power armor would make my mech spamish PAGK list not work as well but honestly I'd probably just put him near the Purgation squads I'd be fielding anyway
For me it's either massively foot oriented or something like:
5 Strike Grey Knights w/Psycannon in Rhino for 160ptsx6
I'm looking at something like 4x10 GK units with 2x psycannon (880), combat squad, then sprinkle your board side
2x10 GK units with rhinos, and 2 psycannons - 520 ish
1400
+200 for a GM
1600
Everything scores, the 2 big GK units can outflank (typically)
This is probably going to be the "essence" of my build. It leaves no tanks for the current meta to fire at on board, and only has the couple coming on outflanking.
Could also add in Crowe and swap the 2 rhino units to purifiers, and still make points at 2k pretty easily.
Its looking gooooood.
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Post by: Pyriel-
BUT. Mass psycannon spam will work. Backed up by a Vindicare or Henches, it will definitely work. and S7 rending psycannons will positively rip the nuts off of any vehicle wall out there.
Not quite.
There are three big problems:
1: Range, most things etc can outshoot the psycannons 36 range that means psycannons need to be placed close.
2: Cover, terrain is where you put psycannons if they are to survive a shootout with armour. Terrain might not be there when needed.
3: Support. In order for the purgation squads to survive the return fire they need shrouding and that is an additional 150-200p of a libby guarding them.
The psycannon line is no longer that effective is it.
25360
Post by: ductvader
Pyriel- wrote:BUT. Mass psycannon spam will work. Backed up by a Vindicare or Henches, it will definitely work. and S7 rending psycannons will positively rip the nuts off of any vehicle wall out there.
Not quite.
There are three big problems:
1: Range, most things etc can outshoot the psycannons 36 range that means psycannons need to be placed close.
2: Cover, terrain is where you put psycannons if they are to survive a shootout with armour. Terrain might not be there when needed.
3: Support. In order for the purgation squads to survive the return fire they need shrouding and that is an additional 150-200p of a libby guarding them.
The psycannon line is no longer that effective is it.
You place them 12" up...they have the board for range. And they can move and shoot whereas most enemy units (that might be able to hurt them) can't.
19377
Post by: Grundz
ductvader wrote:
You place them 12" up...they have the board for range. And they can move and shoot whereas most enemy units (that might be able to hurt them) can't.
shhh, the only good unit is a unit that can automatically remove the entire opposing army, every time, at any range, forever.
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