I was thinking of an alternate paint scheme to start painting my gobbos. My current Orks have been mostly black , or started with black , so im looking for varieties.

Any ideas of simple yet uniformed and straightforward and effective as a horde army would be appreciated.

I was thinking white robed Night Goblin with addition of dioramas within the ranks of other wise static Skull Pass gobbos. So the huts , and the tied up dwarf hostage.

If it was a permanent army i wouldnt think the color would matter. But if i eventually sell them , with half of the customers been Americans ,
will the white robes be seen as KKK attire since the issue has been more sensitive in the states than in Canada?

Got a picture of what this would look like roughly?

The picture would be the deciding factor.

As it is, I don't know how to call it.

This is just a touch up of someone's paint theme , cant find any actual white night goblins

I do not see any problem.

Now if you want to hide some of that white, perhaps make the robes splattered in browns and touches of green to indicate wear, hiding the fact that they are white robes a bit with a bit better looking paint scheme.

You should only be concerned with the white robes if you start also adding offensive imagery that is best left unsaid and to the imagination.

I'M CALLING JESSE JACKSON! YOU GUNNA HAFTA APPOLYGIZE! Seriously, they look fine.

It looks fine to me. I can sort of see the connection, but only because you mentioned it. If you had not, I would not have thought of the KKK.

As long as your not also including burning crosses or lynching someone, it shouldn't be too much of an issue.

You could always give hem a bit of red trim ala Final Fantasy White Mages.

Unless their WAAAGH! banners were burning crosses, I think you'll be okay.

Nope no cross , k seems like everyone is fine with the robe , then its all good .

Thanks :3

KKK hoods cover their faces. You don't have that problem here. You should be fine.

I see nothing wrong with them. I do suggest you make one a bit 'odd' however, make his robe pink, and then make a red sock out of greenstuff and stick it to the back of his robe.

Norsehawk wrote:I see nothing wrong with them. I do suggest you make one a bit 'odd' however, make his robe pink, and then make a red sock out of greenstuff and stick it to the back of his robe.

I'll consider that for the command groups :3

I think if you were to take the view that it was KKK you'd be basically saying they are monsters soley bent on destruction, uncivilised, barbaric and not very bright (your'e using gobbos)...so quite anti KKK in a way.

People have problems with zombie nazis so go figure that.

Looks nothing like the KKK Luna, and the Gobbos probably have better moral standards.

The robes are more like Benedictine monks than KKK, in anycase the robes the latter use are like the ones worn by penitents at Easter

Wouldn't worry about it unless planning a conversion of the BSB to carry a burning cross

Cyporiean wrote:As long as your not also including burning crosses or lynching someone, it shouldn't be too much of an issue.

You could always give hem a bit of red trim ala Final Fantasy White Mages.

This!

If they are in white robes, then they are in white robes, nothing inherently wrong with that, if they are carrying burning crosses and all thier banners have KKK in boldcaps on them then there is something wrong with them, more to the point there would be something wrong with you for wanting a kkk night goblin army.

But pure white might make for a boring scheme, throw some dags + checks on them for variety and interest!

on an unrelated note, how long before this thread starts to talk about nazi IG? I predict 6 more posts!

Maybe just shade them a little bit and they're great.

anyone complains, suggest they suck a wang. your models, paint em how you like.

I don't think you should have problems...but there's always someone who think badly... i guess that's only an issue in your country, in my own, if you paint a spanish banner somewhere, they tend to call you fascist.... fethers who lives for complaining are everywhere, so, don't care about that, if they come across, just ignore them

White robes does not denote racisim in any way, there are plenty more benevolent organisations who wear white robes that when someone sees white robes they do;ot automatically think KKK. So like others have said, unless you have some burning crosses and red robed leaders there is nothing racist about it.

Black Orks and white robed Night Goblins: Looks like KKK to me.
Charge double price in USA!

They could be Catholic Goblins.

Just sayin'

I think the colorful shield offsets any racism

Since I'm basically doing the same thing (except for the hoods, which will be colored to distinguish squads), I see no problem with it.

Give em the white robes, and blue skin, and call em Smurfs of Chaos.

Virtually everything in todays world is racist towards someone else.. Knowing that, as long as you arent doing it for a racist reason then do whatever you want

On a personal level, I just dislike that kind of white.. Shading it would be a lot nicer

LunaHound, it is funny that you posted this. Being that 'Ard Boyz Fantasy was this past weekend, I had just that issue. I had half of my Night Goblins primed in all white the other half had work done on them so the robes were black and the hoods were still white. My apponets either saw the KKK or short F*cked up Nuns!

I'm sure one of my fave ever White Dwarf Goblin armies had a white theme. Would need to go digging.

I've certainly see Night Goblins painted white before, just make sure they have the odd Gobbo with some Dags around the hood, or even some checks to break them up.

Well, they're not as bad as Nazi Imperial Guard so you should be fine.

No, the KKK doesnt get to influence a hobby like this. Thats ridiculous.

AdeptusAssfartes wrote:No, the KKK doesnt get to influence a hobby like this. Thats ridiculous.

The fact that I've seen a Marine army with its Chapter Master titled the Grand Imperial Wizard and its Vets using the old metal robed DA(with white robes) disagrees with you.

Mind you, this army was built in the South, too.

Just like with everything else: context matters.
White robed goblins? Fine.
White robed goblins, with their faces masked by white cloth and carrying burning crosses as standards? Not fine.

And since someone just had to bring up 'Nazi' Imperial Guard:
Using the uniform colors of the Nazis? Fine.
Using the uniform colors, names of famous Nazis, swastikas, and more? Not fine, unless you're actually playing Flames of War or another WWII historical game.

Kanluwen wrote:Just like with everything else: context matters.
White robed goblins? Fine.
White robed goblins, with their faces masked by white cloth and carrying burning crosses as standards? Not fine.

And since someone just had to bring up 'Nazi' Imperial Guard:
Using the uniform colors of the Nazis? Fine.
Using the uniform colors, names of famous Nazis, swastikas, and more? Not fine, unless you're actually playing Flames of War or another WWII historical game.

This.

The KKK's robes hide their faces. Because the organization started for the purposes of criminal terrorism and murder. The goblin robes don't hide their faces, so they don't directly resemble the KKK's robes. Also, not having any of the associated imagery or objects leaves you in the clear.

Sorry... couldn't help myself.

Wait... what?

Why would it be a bad thing to make night goblins themed as kkk members? Burning crosses and all? Like all goblins, night goblins are rather a parody so I don't see why making them seem KKKish would be that bad. I understand that the KKK is bad BUT really, making a mockery of them via toy models really shouldn't bother anyone.

But I guess this is my view of history, that we should actually learn it and know it. By creating a taboo we essentially are collectively forgetting anything that happened. So i say on the back of every night gobbo you put a big flaming cross!

I wouldnt percieve it as having any racial connotation to it. I mean im looking at a bunch of goblins in white robes, not a mob of dumb, angry, southern, toothless idiots burning crosses.

Can i just point out that both WHFB and 40k are both highly racist (lets face it, its not just a few different races anymore) and sexist anyway? (and alot more)

At the end of the day, are we going to cry when a wizard has a white robe?
So we should now drop alot of colours from our themes?

Nah, its not OTT.
As said, crosses or masks would tip it too much.


As they are they are simply white robed gobbo's.
Which i might add look pretty quality and a nice break from the constant black robes everyone paints them with.

It's not racist. Think of it this way. They are just a touch of blue away from friendly Smurfs.

To be honest, don't paint them white because you want to be controversial. Paint them white if you like it. If you're willing to arouse controversy, then you're just attention-whoring with a gimmick.

These threads come up all the time with Confederate IG, Nazi IG, etc. If you want to offend people, go ahead. However, no number of people on Dakka saying it's alright will ever alleviate the stigma you'll develop at your FLGS.

Absolutionis wrote:To be honest, don't paint them white because you want to be controversial. Paint them white if you like it. If you're willing to arouse controversy, then you're just attention-whoring with a gimmick.

This is also an important point, but...

These threads come up all the time with Confederate IG, Nazi IG, etc. If you want to offend people, go ahead. However, no number of people on Dakka saying it's alright will ever alleviate the stigma you'll develop at your FLGS.

The thing to remember with most of the "Confederate" and "Nazi IG" posts are just like this one:
People wondering if their idea would be "controversial".

I think it's time we get a sticky on this kind of topic.
Colors alone do not make something a "mirror of an idea".
Context matters.
White robed characters are not members of the KKK just because they're wearing white. White robes, with pointed full hoods and eyeholes cut into the mask? That's echoing the KKK and trying to be controversial.
Guard wearing grey dress uniforms and slouch caps does not make something a "Confederate IG" force. Guard wearing grey dress uniforms, with banners painted like the Confederacy's flag? That's a "Confederate IG" force.
Guard wearing Wehrmacht camouflage smocks and gray pants with black boots doesn't make them a "Nazi IG" force. Guard wearing Wehrmacht camouflage smocks with swastikas plastered over everything does make it a "Nazi IG" force.

When doing a project that you think might have controversy attached because of your color scheme, take the time to sit down and problem solve. There's two basic questions you should be asking yourself before committing paint to plastic.
Are you using symbols associated with the controversial aspect of the color scheme?
This isn't necessary, at all, unless you're playing historicals and is generally frowned upon outside of that venue.

Are you including models that you're converting up to base around that controversial aspect of the color scheme?
White robed Night Goblins by themselves are completely inoffensive and just a departure from the norm. White robed Night Goblins carrying burning crosses and with a background of being "dispossessed slave owners and an angry remnant of a lost war" is completely unacceptable.

Norsehawk wrote:I see nothing wrong with them. I do suggest you make one a bit 'odd' however, make his robe pink, and then make a red sock out of greenstuff and stick it to the back of his robe.

I dont get it :/

Battle Brother Lucifer wrote:

Norsehawk wrote:I see nothing wrong with them. I do suggest you make one a bit 'odd' however, make his robe pink, and then make a red sock out of greenstuff and stick it to the back of his robe.

I dont get it :/

If you wash a white robe with a red sock, the red sock will bleed and discolor the robe.

They are night goblins. No it would not be racist and if anyone had an issue tell them to piss off because little plastic goblins had nothing to do with actual slavery/racism in our world (Then again no one alive in N.America is either so I laugh when people make an issue of these things and ask for reparations and wonder why I tell them to get a job). In fact, portraying the KKK as a bunch of useless little gobbos would be demeaning to THEM and not anyone else. It boggles me how the same people who get up in arms about this feel it is appropriate to dress up as Native Americans at Halloween and make a mockery of all things asian with half of the costumes I have seen.

My initial instinct was oh no..., but they green skin and yellow shield make it ok. Just don't paint them pasty faced with confederate flags and you should be fine.

I do have to wonder how night goblins keep all that white so clean?

There lil toy men ! just do it .
no one seemed to take offence of my crucified Jesus penitent engine or my demolition man style salamandas cpt

and as people have said allready Warhammer is inherently racist anyway .

maybe just shy away from painting the tied up dwarf black with a Afro !

I heavily considered getting a bunch of these guys (with white robes) to run in my 40k army, but couldn't find a decent way to give them Blastas. They'd be fighting alongside those awesome 2nd Edition Nazi Stormboyz.

*sigh*

Jackal wrote:Can i just point out that both WHFB and 40k are both highly racist (lets face it, its not just a few different races anymore) and sexist anyway? (and alot more)

There is some truth to this. While the sexist argument isnt as strong (due to the fact that Eldar and Dark Eldar include women and there has been rumors of a revision to the SOB), I will agree that there is much about the game's characters/army's that is racist. I think that can attributed to the producers of the game being slightly racist. From what ive heard and read isnt Phil Kelly a closet supremist?

Racism in the context of a fictional dystopian world makes sense, and portraying it or being aware of it in the fluff is not a big deal.

Specifically modeling an army to evoke a REAL WORLD racist group is problematic and offensive to many people. Because it's violating the parameters and the fluff of the game world, importing something offensive purely for shock value.

Again, Kanluwen nailed it.

Mannahnin wrote:Racism in the context of a fictional dystopian world makes sense, and portraying it or being aware of it in the fluff is not a big deal.

Specifically modeling an army to evoke a REAL WORLD racist group is problematic and offensive to many people. Because it's violating the parameters and the fluff of the game world, importing something offensive purely for shock value.

Again, Kanluwen nailed it.

Ok so if there is the KKK in the fluff its totally ok to portray it, but if it appears in the real world and the game its suddenly offensive and shouldn't be played?

That is the biggest load of bull I have heard in a while. Your argument presents itself as if the Warhammer 40k universe is a void in which nothing else matters. Then you present this idea of the real world and say that it is wrong to place real world parameters in this game. I don't think it is a logic flaw, I just think it is a poor argument. The arguement is poor because Warhammer fluff is generally not established to the degree that would lend your argument credibility. If I created a space marines chapter that ran around and hunted other space marines that are different than them (lets say my armor was white and I hunted all black armored marines thinking they were heretics). Technically i created my own chapter with my own fluff that fits into the W40k universe (especially if i use the GK codex and run an inquisitor).

The real fact of the matter is that we cannot pretend that our gaming system is devoid of social inequalities and problems, by doing so is a dilution of the meta. Furthermore, it is not as if you are supporting these groups if you build your army to them. Shock value is good, great! Marketing does this all the time. If you want to stand out in a tournament, play the army that is modeled to look like the KKK.

Please explain to me why shock value is wrong?

Would it be racist to grab a robed Dark Angel body and put an Eldar head on it and paint it white?

No.

Because it isn't real.

I know that some people will disagree with me, but if you think it might be a bad idea, it probably is. I understand the want to do something different, but this could end badly.

I'm not saying that anyone here is one of those nutcase gamers trying to claim their nazi guard is inoffensive, while at the same time describing how awesome the nazis were, but white robed gobbos combined with some of the in regiment dioramas described could easily lead to symbolism that could cause conflict.

Grey Knight Luke wrote:
Ok so if there is the KKK in the fluff its totally ok to portray it, but if it appears in the real world and the game its suddenly offensive and shouldn't be played?
That is the biggest load of bull I have heard in a while. Your argument presents itself as if the Warhammer 40k universe is a void in which nothing else matters. Then you present this idea of the real world and say that it is wrong to place real world parameters in this game. I don't think it is a logic flaw, I just think it is a poor argument. The argument is poor because Warhammer fluff is generally not established to the degree that would lend your argument credibility.

You'll notice that what Mannahnin said in his statement was that "portraying it or being aware of it in the fluff is not a big deal".

The "game world" isn't the "fluff world". You're not going to see the 'fictional dystopia', you're seeing the military might of that fictional dystopia.

If I created a space marines chapter that ran around and hunted other space marines that are different than them (lets say my armor was white and I hunted all black armored marines thinking they were heretics). Technically i created my own chapter with my own fluff that fits into the W40k universe (especially if i use the GK codex and run an inquisitor).

That fluff actually doesn't "fit into the W40k universe", even using the Grey Knights or Inquisition as an excuse.
"A Space Marines Chapter that ran around and hunted other Space Marines that are different than them" because of armor color is just a half-arsed attempt to justify having a "KKK army for shock value".
And frankly, if I were a shopowner and you showed up to play trying to sell me with that background for your force I'd kick you out of my shop.

The real fact of the matter is that we cannot pretend that our gaming system is devoid of social inequalities and problems, by doing so is a dilution of the meta. Furthermore, it is not as if you are supporting these groups if you build your army to them.

Your friends and acquaintances will know that you are "not supporting these groups if you build your army to them". A random player in a tournament, who has never met you before will not.
And for the record, "the meta game" has nothing to do with "social inequalities and problems".
Unless Eldar having a crummy army is suddenly cause for the ACLU to get involved.

Shock value is good, great! Marketing does this all the time. If you want to stand out in a tournament, play the army that is modeled to look like the KKK.
Please explain to me why shock value is wrong?

Because in this case you're not talking about shock value.
You're trying to provoke an emotional reaction from people and then claim moral justification for bringing real world politics and values into the game world.

Because in this case you're not talking about shock value.
You're trying to provoke an emotional reaction from people and then claim moral justification for bringing real world politics and values into the game world.

What I am saying is that there is no ethical reason to avoid or promote bringing these issues to the 40k universe via modeling or user created fluff. Especially when it works so well in a fictional dystopia. I know this will cause issues for some people (so try not to take what I am saying and blow it out of proportion) there seems to be no reason to promote censorship within this game. I am of the school of thought that models will NOT make someone so innately offended that they will tell me I am a racist. Sorry but I don't act racist, I don't promote racism, but I feel I should be able to model a KKK themed army and bring it to tournaments.

Your friends and acquaintances will know that you are "not supporting these groups if you build your army to them". A random player in a tournament, who has never met you before will not.
And for the record, "the meta game" has nothing to do with "social inequalities and problems".
Unless Eldar having a crummy army is suddenly cause for the ACLU to get involved.

Sorry, what I mean by meta is fluff

if I were a shopowner and you showed up to play trying to sell me with that background for your force I'd kick you out of my shop.

I know if you were the shop owner you wouldn't need a reason, but on what moral basis would you do that?

You'll notice that what Mannahnin said in his statement was that "portraying it or being aware of it in the fluff is not a big deal".

The "game world" isn't the "fluff world". You're not going to see the 'fictional dystopia', you're seeing the military might of that fictional dystopia.

So my awareness (of the social issues) enacted in portrayal of fluff (aka the models I build to fluff), which happens to get played out via the military might of a fictional dystopia is not ok?

If people assume it is a KKK thing, then they went to racism first and you can not control what people think or if they find meaning where there is none.

Grey Knight Luke wrote:

Because in this case you're not talking about shock value.
You're trying to provoke an emotional reaction from people and then claim moral justification for bringing real world politics and values into the game world.

What I am saying is that there is no ethical reason to avoid or promote bringing these issues to the 40k universe via modeling or user created fluff. Especially when it works so well in a fictional dystopia. I know this will cause issues for some people (so try not to take what I am saying and blow it out of proportion) there seems to be no reason to promote censorship within this game.

There's no "censorship" involved.
It's called "good taste".

I am of the school of thought that models will NOT make someone so innately offended that they will tell me I am a racist. Sorry but I don't act racist, I don't promote racism, but I feel I should be able to model a KKK themed army and bring it to tournaments.

Uh...huh. And why do you think you "should be able to model a KKK themed army and bring it to tournaments"?
There's no reason, whatsoever, to do such a thing other than to try to promote shock value. Which is completely unnecessary, childish, and shows a lack of character and good taste.

Your friends and acquaintances will know that you are "not supporting these groups if you build your army to them". A random player in a tournament, who has never met you before will not.
And for the record, "the meta game" has nothing to do with "social inequalities and problems".
Unless Eldar having a crummy army is suddenly cause for the ACLU to get involved.

Sorry, what I mean by meta is fluff

And you'd still be wrong. Fluff != gameplay.
Does the fluff of a unit affect the gameplay? Sure.
But we're not talking about a game where the socioeconomic factors come into play.
We're playing games that are straight up slugfests between forces, there's no need for you to try to "enlighten" your opponent.

if I were a shopowner and you showed up to play trying to sell me with that background for your force I'd kick you out of my shop.

I know if you were the shop owner you wouldn't need a reason, but on what moral basis would you do that?

Because I don't like tasteless trolls trying to exercise their supposed "free speech" and impinging on everyone else's enjoyment of the game.

You'll notice that what Mannahnin said in his statement was that "portraying it or being aware of it in the fluff is not a big deal".

The "game world" isn't the "fluff world". You're not going to see the 'fictional dystopia', you're seeing the military might of that fictional dystopia.

So my awareness (of the social issues) enacted in portrayal of fluff (aka the models I build to fluff), which happens to get played out via the military might of a fictional dystopia is not ok?

Show me where the Imperial Guard purges a world of life because they're colored differently.

You can try to say that it's "racism" that the Imperium of Man kills off alien races, but it's really "xenophobia" and "xenocide".
They're far from doing it just for petty reasons like "they look different'.
To try to justify a KKK themed army in such a way is trying to wrap yourself up in free speech to the point that the Westboro Baptist Church has.

It's not white supremacy if there's a little green goblin in the robes. That kind of defeats the purpose. It'll be fine, just add some weathering as suggested previously, it's not going to be an obvious problem you'll face.

If you do have a problem it will be someone who reads between the wrong lines, or picks up on it in that wrong way.

Lord_Osma wrote:If people assume it is a KKK thing, then they went to racism first and you can not control what people think or if they find meaning where there is none.

Nobody would go to KKK first, unless you prompt them by asking "Does this look like the KKK?".
Otherwise, it's just really brightly colored goblins.

Because I don't like tasteless trolls trying to exercise their supposed "free speech" and impinging on everyone else's enjoyment of the game.

Hey now, be nice. This is a theoretical discussion and you are taking it personally. Don't.

And you'd still be wrong. Fluff != gameplay.
Does the fluff of a unit affect the gameplay? Sure.
But we're not talking about a game where the socioeconomic factors come into play.
We're playing games that are straight up slugfests between forces, there's no need for you to try to "enlighten" your opponent.

But the fluff of a unit DOES affect how a modeler might want to show that fluff.
I see what you are doing, you don't want me to tell you how to think about the world, to enlighten you. So its ok that you stifle everyone else while promoting a view of "this is only a game where models fight, there is nothing else here, anything else here is a figment of your imagination and does not exist." While I respect your position, I think you are wrong. W40k like everything else is a text. We read it and we view it and yes on the surface it is a tabletop game in a fictional dystopia where models fight, but on a deeper level it is a mirror (albeit somewhat perplexing mirror) of what is going on today in the here and now.

some catchwords that might be used to show the similarities between these worlds: Imperialism, Capitalism, Xenophobia, Racism, Warmongering.
This is my deep level view of warhammer, if you disagree with me fully about this then this debate cannot continue and will end up with people upset.

Kanluwen wrote:Show me where the Imperial Guard purges a world of life because they're colored differently.

There are plenty of cases during the Great Crusade where humans had evolved differently than the conquoring Imperium, and the Imperium destroyed their entire civilization. And this isn't just about Chaos mutations, the Imperium of Man is pretty much all about "racial purity." Just because they don't discriminate based on color doesn't make their actions any more defensible.

The IOM has pretty strong parallels with Nazi Germany (although there are a lot of Soviet influence as well).

Grey Knight Luke wrote:

Because I don't like tasteless trolls trying to exercise their supposed "free speech" and impinging on everyone else's enjoyment of the game.

Hey now, be nice. This is a theoretical discussion and you are taking it personally. Don't.

You asked me why I would throw someone out for doing such a thing. I told you.
You're doing nobody favors by continuing this line of discussion. It's not acceptable in the context of 40k/WHFB/Warmachine/Hordes/anything that isn't a historical wargaming set--and even then, the KKK doesn't even fit into that category, nor does the Holocaust or any number of the issues that you're trying to 'enlighten' people about.

And you'd still be wrong. Fluff != gameplay.
Does the fluff of a unit affect the gameplay? Sure.
But we're not talking about a game where the socioeconomic factors come into play.
We're playing games that are straight up slugfests between forces, there's no need for you to try to "enlighten" your opponent.

But the fluff of a unit DOES affect how a modeler might want to show that fluff.

Show me any part of the fluff of 40k that makes it acceptable to showcase real world examples of racism, fascism, genocide, criminal activity, or any number of things.
You can't. Because you're not using the fluff examples, you're trying to jackhammer a point home by using real world examples.

I see what you are doing, you don't want me to tell you how to think about the world, to enlighten you. So its ok that you stifle everyone else while promoting a view of "this is only a game where models fight, there is nothing else here, anything else here is a figment of your imagination and does not exist." While I respect your position, I think you are wrong.

No, you clearly don't respect my position or even understand it.
These things do not bloody belong in the game.
You do not have free speech in this regard, and I'm quite frankly sick and tired of people trying to wrap themselves up in that excuse.
"Free speech" is something that is grossly misunderstood. The government cannot shut you up for disagreeing with its practices, but a business owner whose premises you're on can shut you up and remove you from the premises if he doesn't like the message you're trying to portray.

W40k like everything else is a text. We read it and we view it and yes on the surface it is a tabletop game in a fictional dystopia where models fight, but on a deeper level it is a mirror (albeit somewhat perplexing mirror) of what is going on today in the here and now.

No, it's really not. It's a game. I don't play 40k to get politics shoved down my throat, and even reading 40k novels/Codices would tell you that the parallels are at best so shallow and absurdly convoluted that to even make the statement that it's a "mirror of what is going on today" is a logical fallacy.

some catchwords that might be used to show the similarities between these worlds: Imperialism, Capitalism, Xenophobia, Racism, Warmongering.
This is my deep level view of warhammer, if you disagree with me fully about this then this debate cannot continue and will end up with people upset.

What debate? All you're trying to do is get across the point of "free speech free speech free speech" and that themes exist within 40k that -shock gasp- are similar to the real world.
It's almost as though the authors of 40k live in the same world as the rest of us, and their experiences and knowledge have somehow shaped or influenced that.

biccat wrote:There are plenty of cases during the Great Crusade where humans had evolved differently than the conquering Imperium, and the Imperium destroyed their entire civilization. And this isn't just about Chaos mutations, the Imperium of Man is pretty much all about "racial purity." Just because they don't discriminate based on color doesn't make their actions any more defensible.

Actually, there's not. The Interex and several other "differently evolved humans" were not destroyed just because they were "different". They were tainted, so far removed from humanity that there was no bringing them back into the fold. In many cases, they'd regressed to the point of barbarianism or they'd transcended the level of the Imperium itself. There's also the "we want something they have but they won't share" aspect to consider.
But you know that, you're only trying to make a strawman argument as usual.

The IOM has pretty strong parallels with Nazi Germany (although there are a lot of Soviet influence as well).

They've also got pretty strong parallels with every freaking conquering culture in existence when it comes to "destroying the entire civilization" of those they come across.
Do you think the Spanish destroyed the Mesoamerican cultures because they were "different"?
No. They wanted the resources and land.
How about the early English settlers at Jamestown?

Certainly, but the fluff exercises restraint. It draws on real world facist and totalitarian (and communist; see the Tau) concepts without directly and explicitly referencing them in a tasteless way.

Bringing actual Nazis or KKK symbolism and imagery into the game has two issues.

1. It actually conflicts with the fluff. This makes it stand out more.
2. It imports something shocking and offensive into an escapist game world for no really good reasion.

While I'm a staunch advocate of free expression, I don't go walking down the main street of my town, in front of children, screaming obscenities as a way of expressing my freedom. It would be tasteless and dumb.

Similarly, painting a KKK army as a way to be shocking and because I thought it was humorous would be dumb. Even if my friends knew I wasn't actually a bigot, strangers would never know. Random customers and parents in stores would look at me like a leper. Store owners could easily justify banning my army (and might even ban me!) from their stores to avoid customers getting the wrong idea about the hobby, and casting us all in disrepute.

W40k like everything else is a text. We read it and we view it and yes on the surface it is a tabletop game in a fictional dystopia where models fight, but on a deeper level it is a mirror (albeit somewhat perplexing mirror) of what is going on today in the here and now.

No, it's really not. It's a game. I don't play 40k to get politics shoved down my throat, and even reading 40k novels/Codices would tell you that the parallels are at best so shallow and absurdly convoluted that to even make the statement that it's a "mirror of what is going on today" is a logical fallacy.

some catchwords that might be used to show the similarities between these worlds: Imperialism, Capitalism, Xenophobia, Racism, Warmongering.
This is my deep level view of warhammer, if you disagree with me fully about this then this debate cannot continue and will end up with people upset.

What debate? All you're trying to do is get across the point of "free speech free speech free speech" and that themes exist within 40k that -shock gasp- are similar to the real world.
It's almost as though the authors of 40k live in the same world as the rest of us, and their experiences and knowledge have somehow shaped or influenced that.

I am not trying to get across just Free Speech. I am trying to get across that Warhammer is MUCH deeper than you realize. You want to take it at face value, fine I will respect your right to do so and I also will not blatantly model units that reflect real world stuff (like Tallarn with meltabombs or demo charges). I feel as if you are attacking me. You have given me no real reasoning as to why THESE THINGS DO NOT BLOODY BELONG IN THE GAME. that is your view, I just want to know why?

The fact is that the parallels are strong and that this game (how we play, how we model, how we paint) might actually have an impact on us and the real world. The fluff reflects this.
Hmmm you must not have studied literary theory in college.

Kanluwen wrote:Actually, there's not. The Interex and several other "differently evolved humans" were not destroyed just because they were "different". They were tainted, so far removed from humanity that there was no bringing them back into the fold. In many cases, they'd regressed to the point of barbarianism or they'd transcended the level of the Imperium itself.

You don't understand the idea of "racial purity" do you? The whole point of the IOM: you are either like us, or you are Xenos and deserve to be destroyed.

There is no room in the 40k universe for imperfect humans. If they don't conform to the Emperor's ideal, they are destroyed.

Kanluwen wrote:They've also got pretty strong parallels with every freaking conquering culture in existence when it comes to "destroying the entire civilization" of those they come across.
Do you think the Spanish destroyed the Mesoamerican cultures because they were "different"?
No. They wanted the resources and land.
How about the early English settlers at Jamestown?

Do you think that the Imperium wants to destroy the other races because they want their resources? Not only no, but hell no. They want to destroy the other races solely because they're different.

The Imperium exemplifies xenophobia.

So a group of men running about in robes and hoods with crosses and torches burning those who arent "pure" are now racist?
feth, guess thats why no one plays witch hunters anymore :(

If anything they would resemble the klan more so than white gobbo's.

Grey Knight Luke wrote:

I am not trying to get across just Free Speech. I am trying to get across that Warhammer is MUCH deeper than you realize.

Yeahh...you have no clue who you're talking to, so I'll just say this: I'm aware that Warhammer, as a setting, is a deep place. That's part of why I enjoy it.

However, you bringing real world examples of issues within the game onto the tabletop is just a blatant attempt at showing how tasteless and attention seeking you are.

You want to take it at face value, fine I will respect your right to do so and I also will not blatantly model units that reflect real world stuff (like Tallarn with meltabombs or demo charges).

Modeling a Tallarn with meltabombs or demo charges would just make you look stupid, since the Tallarn are based off of the British LRDG during WWII and not Muslim extremists.

I feel as if you are attacking me. You have given me no real reasoning as to why THESE THINGS DO NOT BLOODY BELONG IN THE GAME. that is your view, I just want to know why?

We've given you every reason why "THESE THINGS DO NOT BLOODY BELONG IN THE GAME".

The fact is that the parallels are strong and that this game (how we play, how we model, how we paint) might actually have an impact on us and the real world. The fluff reflects this.

Yes, because the UN is waiting for 40k players to decide if Orks really have rights or not. Clearly, the tabletop has a huge impact on the real world.

Hmmm you must not have studied literary theory in college.

And just when I thought you couldn't look any more ridiculous, you pulled it off!
Congrats!

-Im not worried to be called racist if im playing this army ( because the people im playing with know im the sweetest )

-What i AM worried about is, for any reasons at all maybe . from american buyer point of view , would there be any chance
of racism been considered ( because of the slavery history in the past there are still some sensitivities ) , which might effect me reselling my painted army.

- Like some have mentioned and i agreed with , warhammer fluff is i guess , grim dark , so lots of head trophies , hanging dead bodies , etc etc.
I didnt want some to take it as , some display of KKK "acts" . Like white robe itself is probably safe , but combine the small details together , i dont want any misunderstandings.

So far i like Smurf suggestions the most so i'll take that advice ( maybe blue tatoos ) . With some checkers to go along the command groups.
The rest of rank and file will stay plain white robe only cuz... ( shhhh im lazy :'P )

There are no right or wrong answers to this , all i wanted was to see how the opinion goes, and i deem it safe enough for me to go with the project.

Thanks

LunaHound wrote:

-Im not worried to be called racist if im playing this army ( because the people im playing with know im the sweetest )

-What i AM worried about is, for any reasons at all maybe . from american buyer point of view , would there be any chance
of racism been considered ( because of the slavery history in the past there are still some sensitivities ) , which might effect me reselling my painted army.

- Like some have mentioned and i agreed with , warhammer fluff is i guess , grim dark , so lots of head trophies , hanging dead bodies , etc etc.
I didnt want some to take it as , some display of KKK "acts" . Like white robe itself is probably safe , but combine the small details together , i dont want any misunderstandings.

So far i like Smurf suggestions the most so i'll take that advice ( maybe blue tatoos ) . With some checkers to go along the command groups.
The rest of rank and file will stay plain white robe only cuz... ( shhhh im lazy :'P )

I'd say add some red, yellow, and blue jags on the lower hem of the robe to break up the 'plain white'.
They'd break up the white, serve as unit designators, and allow for some more spot color on there.

So this means you will be painting heavily again? this i like
Actually done some painting tonight after work, even if it was re-doing the failed attempt at a GUO's skin lol.

Also, the smurf idea sounds pretty amusing, blue warpaint is actually quite nice.



However, avoid the BFSP shaman.
Doesent look too bad, but for someone looking for an argument it might be a spark.

Not my pics, googled it:







Edit: Kan!
Its Dags mate, not jags
(Dag -- Dog tooth pattern)

Jags work, dangnabbit!

Dont worry about it , i got the paint scheme covered.

Like i mentioned , i picked SKull Pass goblins to paint because im a LAZY painter. I want to paint 1 whole squad in one go ( factory assembly line style! ) and dont want to spend too much effort on rank and files.

The main priority is keeping it simple and fast hence its either white or black robed. ( primer does 60% of the painting HOPEFULLY )

A gobbo in a jag? that i would pay to see


Luna, i see your point with factory painting.
Should be a case of a simple white undercoat then black wash + highlights.

If you play it right, painting them with 100% washes is more than possible lol.
Im assuming you do the same as me and paint the front rank to TT standard and the rest will be hidden?

Okay, folks need to dial back the rhetoric and STOP making this personal. It's just a discussion. It's not actually life and death. If you are so wrapped up in it that you feel the need to be hostile or negatively-characterize someone else, take a break from the computer, relax with the cold, refreshing beverage of your choice, and come back to it later with a cooler head. Any further rudeness or hostility will result in suspensions or other disciplinary action.

There are far too many situations involving far too many things in life where people will interpret something completely out of context, intended or not, which you will never be able to control.

If the first inclination for someone to think that a bunch of short green men dressed in white robes reminds that person of the KKK, that's their own hang up.

Granted someone will complain sooner or later, its the nature of the game. But it should be fine.

Jackal wrote:A gobbo in a jag? that i would pay to see


Luna, i see your point with factory painting.
Should be a case of a simple white undercoat then black wash + highlights.

If you play it right, painting them with 100% washes is more than possible lol.
Im assuming you do the same as me and paint the front rank to TT standard and the rest will be hidden?

Ahh hmm.... thinking about that... i have NO idea if i would paint front rank to better standard.
Mainly because i have never completely painted warhammer fantasy as a squad rofl ( minus my tomb guard skeletons which is just primer + browon wash T-T )

Yep i have painted a skulll passs gobo via wash only before, this was back when they included a free one in White Dwarf magazine lol
didnt work too well as i think my primer was enamel.

Any further rudeness or hostility will result in suspensions or other disciplinary action.

I get no warning 1st? :(
this makes me a sad panda.

Ahh hmm.... thinking about that... i have NO idea if i would paint front rank to better standard.
Mainly because i have never completely painted warhammer fantasy as a squad rofl ( minus my tomb guard skeletons which is just primer + browon wash T-T )

If you need lazyness tips im allways here to help
With TK's you can usually get away with;

White undercoat.
Brown wash.
Black wash.
Drybrush bleached bone.
Light drybrush of skull white.

for the front rank highlight instead of Dbrush lol.



About the only real sizes unit ive painted for fantasy was a unit of 50 saurus, but they are pretty quick to paint.

Yep i have painted a skulll passs gobo via wash only before, this was back when they included a free one in White Dwarf magazine lol
didnt work too well as i think my primer was enamel.

Lol, that may explain why
If im washing only, then ill use GW primer as its slightly gritty.
Allows the wash to stick to it pretty well.
Things like army painter tend to be too smooth and it runs off.

To make a public apology, I will say this.

None of my rhetoric was aimed actually at you, Grey Knight Luke. This was nothing personally against you, and I thought I had evidenced that well but looking back I can see where you might have gotten that idea.

I find anyone who feels the need to shoehorn these kinds of themes(racism, genocide, slavery, et all) into the tabletop to be trying to cramp the reason why I play: to have some time away from the real world where such things are a very real issue.

Better not play DE then mate.
they even have slave models.

also, wouldnt any form of war pretty much be genocide?

Jackal wrote:Better not play DE then mate.
they even have slave models.

The slave models serve no real purpose outside of objective markers. They're not something you'll see every game, which kind of pushes them back to the 'Oh, it's those models again' factor.

also, wouldn't any form of war pretty much be genocide?

Tricky question to answer.
"Genocide" is the systematic extermination of an ethnic group for one reason or another.

War isn't really genocide in that regards. But genocides do happen during wars, so the two aren't entirely unrelated.

Would an army of white robed Night Goblins be considered racist ?

Yes, clearly. Black Orks would be very offended.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jackal wrote:

Any further rudeness or hostility will result in suspensions or other disciplinary action.

I get no warning 1st? :(
this makes me a sad panda.

A warning is the lowest level of disciplinary action. The red text post was a public warning to ask people to calm down and be nice to each other.

Jackal wrote:

Ahh hmm.... thinking about that... i have NO idea if i would paint front rank to better standard.
Mainly because i have never completely painted warhammer fantasy as a squad rofl ( minus my tomb guard skeletons which is just primer + browon wash T-T )

If you need lazyness tips im allways here to help
With TK's you can usually get away with; <snip>

Good advice. Yes, especially with really large units in WH, it's often a good idea to do quick, assembly-line painting for the unit, but put a bit more time, attention and detail onto the front rank of models. Maybe the guys on the outside edges/rear too, if you have the time and inclination.

Jackal wrote:

Yep i have painted a skulll passs gobo via wash only before, this was back when they included a free one in White Dwarf magazine lol
didnt work too well as i think my primer was enamel.

Lol, that may explain why
If im washing only, then ill use GW primer as its slightly gritty.
Allows the wash to stick to it pretty well.
Things like army painter tend to be too smooth and it runs off.

Aha! Maybe that's part of the problem I had! I recently primed a couple of Land Raiders red with Army Painter pure red and then tried washing them all over for some depth, and had nasty, blotchy results. Ugh.

War isn't really genocide in that regards. But genocides do happen during wars, so the two aren't entirely unrelated.

So, what would the entire point behind a war be?
From what ive seen, its simply for a single race to gain supremacy over the rest, usually through the removing of lesser races.

Squats being a prime example of this.






Augustus, that is no longer PC my friend
The current correct term would be "coloured orks" as you cant refer to a person by a colour

However, orks are plants, do they have the same rights?
They are living, but would the be defined as a person?

Warhammer is a game of controversies, who cares. But they don't really look like them.

..but after reading this thread I fear greatly about my game I have been working on for 5 years now...



*duck*

Jackal wrote:

War isn't really genocide in that regards. But genocides do happen during wars, so the two aren't entirely unrelated.

So, what would the entire point behind a war be?

Any number of reasons. Like I said: genocide is a very systematic process intended entirely to remove all trace of a culture, ethnicity, or religious sect.

From what I've seen, its simply for a single race to gain supremacy over the rest, usually through the removing of lesser races.

War, as I said, can be fought for any number of reasons.
Religion, race, resources, differing policies, ideologies, and more. Wars aren't, however necessarily, fought to completely 'remove' lesser races.
That complete removal and extermination is a necessity for something to be called genocide.

Squats being a prime example of this.

Squats were devoured by a Hive Fleet. This wasn't to 'gain supremacy' and is like saying that a lion is racist for eating a zebra.

Surtur wrote:People have problems with zombie nazis so go figure that.

People on the internet need something to get mad about.

Because getting mad on the internet is serious.

Those people never actually leave their basement anyway.

Move On.

Any number of reasons. Like I said: genocide is a very systematic process intended entirely to remove all trace of a culture, ethnicity, or religious sect.

Aka, witch hunters.

That complete removal and extermination is a necessity for something to be called genocide.

Not 100%
Hitler would have been charged with genocide along with other countless war crimes, but he did not fit such criteria.

Squats were devoured by a Hive Fleet. This wasn't to 'gain supremacy' and is like saying that a lion is racist for eating a zebra.

See you above point mate
And in theory, they did gain supremacy.
An entire race that stood in thier way was removed.

Nature works with common instincts, the hive mind is a thinking organism that sets out with multiple plans.
While pack metality may involve planning to some degree, its nowhere near close to the hive mind.

Jackal wrote:

Any number of reasons. Like I said: genocide is a very systematic process intended entirely to remove all trace of a culture, ethnicity, or religious sect.

Aka, witch hunters.

Nope. Different concept. When you conflate other nasty crimes/behaviors with genocide, you lessen the impact/weaken the horror of actual genocide.

Jackal wrote:

That complete removal and extermination is a necessity for something to be called genocide.

Not 100%
Hitler would have been charged with genocide along with other countless war crimes, but he did not fit such criteria.

Attempted genocide falls under the same idea.

Jackal wrote:

Squats were devoured by a Hive Fleet. This wasn't to 'gain supremacy' and is like saying that a lion is racist for eating a zebra.

See you above point mate
And in theory, they did gain supremacy.
An entire race that stood in thier way was removed.

Nature works with common instincts, the hive mind is a thinking organism that sets out with multiple plans.
While pack metality may involve planning to some degree, its nowhere near close to the hive mind.

This is a more interesting point. Still, the Hive Mind is not trying to wipe out races or peoples because of cultural, ethnic, or religious differences. It is just trying to consume all the biomass it can, and doesn't care how many species it exterminates in the process. The question of intent and purpose is key.

Kanluwen wrote:
Squats were devoured by a Hive Fleet. This wasn't to 'gain supremacy' and is like saying that a lion is racist for eating a zebra.

um HerpaDerpaNo.

Squats were written out of the game by a design Studio that's too clueless/stupid/uncreative to do anything with them because they spend all their time on Rainbow Skittles Speds Mahreens that are marketed to kids and social misfits that need to win at toy soldiers to validate their miserable lives.

Can we leave the OT discussion out of the thread ? I really dont like to keep asking

Jackal wrote:

Any number of reasons. Like I said: genocide is a very systematic process intended entirely to remove all trace of a culture, ethnicity, or religious sect.

Aka, witch hunters.

Not really if you're referring to the 40k witchhunters.
There's not a "culture, ethnicity, or religious sect" in their purview. There may be cults, but they're not actual 'religions'.

That complete removal and extermination is a necessity for something to be called genocide.

Not 100%
Hitler would have been charged with genocide along with other countless war crimes, but he did not fit such criteria.

Yes, mostly because genocide wasn't a concept that existed at the time. It wasn't until 1948 that a legal definition was set, and the term was coined in 1946 during the Nuremburg Trials.

Squats were devoured by a Hive Fleet. This wasn't to 'gain supremacy' and is like saying that a lion is racist for eating a zebra.

See your above point mate
And in theory, they did gain supremacy.
An entire race that stood in their way was removed.

They didn't "gain supremacy" by devouring the Squats.
They were simply in the way

Nature works with common instincts, the hive mind is a thinking organism that sets out with multiple plans.
While pack mentality may involve planning to some degree, its nowhere near close to the hive mind.

Lions are thinking organisms that set out with multiple plans. So are any predators out there.

Edited: Keeping OT away, sorry luna.

Go ahead and do it; as long as you don't actually have any face covering hoods, or burning crosses, or their weird red badges that they used to have on the front of their hoods, you'll be fine. Maybe scratch up or put a few splotches on one or two. A cool way to paint gore is to gently flick red paint onto a mini from a distance with an old paintbrush.

General discussion of Genocide, etc, is more properly the purview of the Off Topic forum.

Please confine further discussions to helping Luna, or to productive and polite discussion of the concepts involved here from a gaming perspective. Thanks.

Quick bit of google images:






Images pictured are not mine, they are simply results from google



Seems that white night gobbo's are pretty hard to find.
Found one lot that belong to a CMoN poster, but links wont show anything :(

LunaHound wrote:I was thinking of an alternate paint scheme to start painting my gobbos. My current Orks have been mostly black , or started with black , so im looking for varieties.

Any ideas of simple yet uniformed and straightforward and effective as a horde army would be appreciated.

I was thinking white robed Night Goblin with addition of dioramas within the ranks of other wise static Skull Pass gobbos. So the huts , and the tied up dwarf hostage.

If it was a permanent army i wouldnt think the color would matter. But if i eventually sell them , with half of the customers been Americans ,
will the white robes be seen as KKK attire since the issue has been more sensitive in the states than in Canada?

Well someone somewhere will think that. You should be safe if you don't cover the faces with green stuff. It is not an overtly racist paint job to put on your models so if I were you I wouldn't worry about it. Of course someone will make the argument that it is racist and you should just be prepared to explain to them that it was not your intent and you should be able to point out the differences. For example the night goblins don't have their faces covered with cloth, they also don't have the same pointy hats, and lastly they don't have the KKK symbol on their chest either. Then you can tell them that the only thing they have in common is the white robes and that you did not intend for it to represent the KKK in any way at all.

So you should be ok.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tzeentchling9 wrote:It looks fine to me. I can sort of see the connection, but only because you mentioned it. If you had not, I would not have thought of the KKK.

Couldn't agree more.

I think the pictorial references Jackal came up with show that just painting them in white robes doesn't give any direct resemblence to KKK robes.

You'd have to add masks/red badges/torches/other nasty elements to directly evoke it.

Just painting the robes white and keeping the usual orky/goblin iconography should be fine.

So far this looks most promising , as im guessing its dipped?

LunaHound wrote:So far this looks most promising , as im guessing its dipped?

Those look kick-ass! Nothing wrong with them in the slightest. If anyone calls you a racist, kindly point them to the nearest water-closet that they may find a receptacle for the filth that spews forth from their word holes. People are just too far uptight these days.

Our you can point out that they couldn't be racist, as goblins don't have white skin, and aren't of the right religion to be Klansmen.

Mine are painted similar. I use a bleached bone base on the robe then wash with a light brown. I had some of my friends joke a bit about the KKK thing but no one has been offended.

LunaHound wrote:So far this looks most promising , as im guessing its dipped?

I think that something like this would be the best way to avoid the inevitable complaints. I think that the glaring white robes would definitely evoke the wrong reactions, regardless of additional iconography. Don't think of someone looking at the front of the individual model; think of what it will look like to someone walking past or watching you play. All that person will see is hordes of blinding white, peaked hood, robes. To that extent, the first thing that pops into mind is kkk. With a light wash or dipped models, I think it will look great, and still be really easy.

Or you could go the smurf route if you want to be more funny than serious.

Honestly Luna you are just too awesome.

Um, Smurfs and as a side note, i've been playing warhammer for like 8 years and have played one black guy...

Squat Kid wrote:Um, Smurfs and as a side note, i've been playing warhammer for like 8 years and have played one black guy...

Now that you mention it, yeah you're kinda right. I have had many black players in MTG and DandD however when it came to tabletop mini's not so much. We must recruit for diversity!

Out of curiosity, what exactly is wrong with having an army of goblins sporting KKK uniforms, burning crosses, and nooses? Quite honestly, it seems like a rather amusing idea. I think I like Nazi goblins better, but this has potential too.

Laughing Man wrote:Out of curiosity, what exactly is wrong with having an army of goblins sporting KKK uniforms, burning crosses, and nooses? Quite honestly, it seems like a rather amusing idea. I think I like Nazi goblins better, but this has potential too.

Problem is people whine and are too sensitive these days. Little plastic army dudes are in no way going to come to life and begin the lynching.

happydude wrote:

Laughing Man wrote:Out of curiosity, what exactly is wrong with having an army of goblins sporting KKK uniforms, burning crosses, and nooses? Quite honestly, it seems like a rather amusing idea. I think I like Nazi goblins better, but this has potential too.

Problem is people whine and are too sensitive these days. Little plastic army dudes are in no way going to come to life and begin the lynching.

In there case, I prefer to simply quote the bard: "Cry moar."

No its doesnt look KKKish and I doubt that any one would bring it up. As an American i approve this message.

Worglock wrote:

Surtur wrote:People have problems with zombie nazis so go figure that.

People on the internet need something to get mad about.

Because getting mad on the internet is serious.

Those people never actually leave their basement anyway.

Move On.

I am biased in this discussion, because the only white robed Nightgoblin army I have ever seen was by a German boy, who was later expelled from the store for racist remarks. And in Germany KKK is less well known than in USA. So the right wing scene seems to immediately see a similarity. BTW the above Nightgoblins in white coat seem to be quickshaded (light tone I guess).

Laughing Man wrote:Out of curiosity, what exactly is wrong with having an army of goblins sporting KKK uniforms, burning crosses, and nooses? Quite honestly, it seems like a rather amusing idea. I think I like Nazi goblins better, but this has potential too.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/362156.page#2694346

On the surface you might find it amusing for a moment. But I imagine the joke will get old pretty soon. And the real problem comes when people who don't know you well, and can't tell if you are really a bigot or a racist, see the army and begin to draw inferences about you as a person.

Problems further arise if you play with this army in public, say in your local store, and random customers (such as the parents of kids who play there) see the army and begin to wonder if the game in general and/or the players are racists and bigots. This can create a negative impression of the game, the hobby, and even the store itself, to the detriment of the owner and of the local gaming community.

While in pure theory I support the idea that you are free to build your army however you like, in practice I believe that it's important to exercise our freedom of expression with good taste and mature judgment. Just because I am free to yell obscenities in the street in front of schoolchildren, doesn't make that a good way to express my First Amendment rights. It might be my right to do so, but it's still a dumb way to use that right, and would make me look like a jerk and an idiot.

There was a diorama made, according to legend, back when Necromunda was big business about 12 years ago, of a bunch of red redemptionists, painted in white robes, crucifying and burning a ratskin renegade, painted with black skin tones. The legend states that this extremely well painted scene had pride of place in a Games Workshop for several weeks before someone actually had the wit to point out to the manager what it actually represented.

If so, that would be in absolutely terrible taste.

Painting a night goblin's robes white would not be, painting the KKK's symbols on them or setting them up in imitation of that organisation would be.

Anyway, I don`t think white robed goblins would be a problem. Just avoid goblins with yamaka`s

"Yarmulkes".

Also, shouldn't that motivational poster read:
"They see me rollin
I hatin'"

Ha Mannahnin wins. Hmm I thought your name was Manhattan for years...

Thanks.

It's a phonetic misspelling of Mannanan, the Irish sea god, and the name of the Farseer for my first army, when I originally got into the game. My homebrew craftworld uses a mix of classic RT and 2nd ed-era Eldar fluff and prechristian Irish cosmology.

http://replay.waybackmachine.org/20010312062030/http://dakkadakka.com/hostof.htm

Depends on what country you play it in.

Squat Kid wrote:Um, Smurfs and as a side note, i've been playing warhammer for like 8 years and have played one black guy...

I know about a dozen. Get out more.

Do it. If anyone asks- "You want a straw? "what for?" "So you can suck it up"

spireland wrote:Depends on what country you play it in.

it would be fine up here. Canadians tend not to be as anal as our brothers in the south.

happydude wrote:

spireland wrote:Depends on what country you play it in.

it would be fine up here. Canadians tend not to be as anal as our brothers in the south.

Considering there are still segregated graveyards in the south, it is easy to see how one would become anal about this sort of thing....

spireland wrote:

happydude wrote:

spireland wrote:Depends on what country you play it in.

it would be fine up here. Canadians tend not to be as anal as our brothers in the south.

Considering there are still segregated graveyards in the south, it is easy to see how one would become anal about this sort of thing....

This is a fallacy.

There are "still segregated graveyards in the South"--because they're historical or family grave sites, and they've basically decided they want them to be left "as is".

But if you really want to get into it--every graveyard everywhere is "segregated". You see different faiths, different economic statuses, et al given their own areas.

Kanluwen wrote:

spireland wrote:

happydude wrote:

spireland wrote:Depends on what country you play it in.

it would be fine up here. Canadians tend not to be as anal as our brothers in the south.

Considering there are still segregated graveyards in the south, it is easy to see how one would become anal about this sort of thing....

This is a fallacy.

There are "still segregated graveyards in the South"--because they're historical or family grave sites, and they've basically decided they want them to be left "as is".

But if you really want to get into it--every graveyard everywhere is "segregated". You see different faiths, different economic statuses, et al given their own areas.

Assumably the PC brigade would prefer to have all those bodies exhumed and mixed up then re-buried?

I don't know about White Supremacist Goblins or Nazi Guardsmen, but I do remember a review of "Space Hulk" in a generic computer magazine, and they did suggest that such a game should be played with the curtains closed, given the iconography and background involved. (Giant eagles everywhere, "Purge the Unclean" and so forth.) Given the xenophobic and fascist nature of the Imperium of Man as described, I reckon SonderKommando Guard would fit right in. WHFB isn't much less xenophobic either, so maybe KKK Gobbos are the way to go?

Kanluwen wrote:

spireland wrote:

happydude wrote:

spireland wrote:Depends on what country you play it in.

it would be fine up here. Canadians tend not to be as anal as our brothers in the south.

Considering there are still segregated graveyards in the south, it is easy to see how one would become anal about this sort of thing....

This is a fallacy.

There are "still segregated graveyards in the South"--because they're historical or family grave sites, and they've basically decided they want them to be left "as is".

But if you really want to get into it--every graveyard everywhere is "segregated". You see different faiths, different economic statuses, et al given their own areas.

I fear this is going a bit off topic, my point was only that in different parts of the world things that may seem to not be offensive may be offensive to others. Some parts of the world have moved past this kind of thing but a lot have not.

If you have to ask if something is racist, you may not want to do it.

White supremicist goblins? Goblins are green. Perhaps some albino goblins banded together? Are they going to take on Black Orcs? Good luck to them.

Goblins are pretty racist, as a default. If you wanted to paint up Night Goblins in a colour scheme that denotes their racists connotations you should paint them with black robes. On the other hand if someone wanted to paint them with white robes because, oh I don't know, they like the way it looked and wanted something different, well then that's something else entirely.

If people call you out on having white robed goblins, explain to them that it has no relevance to the KKK and was a stylistic choice. If this doesn't appease them, then they have their own issues to address.

htj wrote:Are they going to take on Black Orcs? Good luck to them.

@_@

wow i laughed , i can picture that failing miserably ^^;

Kanluwen wrote:

spireland wrote:

happydude wrote:

spireland wrote:Depends on what country you play it in.

it would be fine up here. Canadians tend not to be as anal as our brothers in the south.

Considering there are still segregated graveyards in the south, it is easy to see how one would become anal about this sort of thing....

This is a fallacy.

There are "still segregated graveyards in the South"--because they're historical or family grave sites, and they've basically decided they want them to be left "as is".

But if you really want to get into it--every graveyard everywhere is "segregated". You see different faiths, different economic statuses, et al given their own areas.

How about, depending on your skin tone, going into certain neighborhoods is hazardous to your health?

Frazzled wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

spireland wrote:

happydude wrote:

spireland wrote:Depends on what country you play it in.

it would be fine up here. Canadians tend not to be as anal as our brothers in the south.

Considering there are still segregated graveyards in the south, it is easy to see how one would become anal about this sort of thing....

This is a fallacy.

There are "still segregated graveyards in the South"--because they're historical or family grave sites, and they've basically decided they want them to be left "as is".

But if you really want to get into it--every graveyard everywhere is "segregated". You see different faiths, different economic statuses, et al given their own areas.

How about, depending on your skin tone, going into certain neighborhoods is hazardous to your health?

I hate that that is true... People need to look past colour.