Hey folks! I play Necrons, currently the worst Codex in 40k. I picked them up specifically for that reason – I’ve always enjoyed playing Underdog armies. I’ve been steamrolling them through opponents for months now, and they’re actually undefeated in both competitive and casual play. They haven’t *won* every game; they’ve had a couple of tied games – but its about a 90/10 split between wins and ties.

Outside of formal tournaments, I generally get them out for one of two reasons. Either my opponent isn’t ready to take on a “Hard” army, playing DE or Orks would be an wasted exercise in noob-stomping, or because they need to be put in their place. This usually happens in one of three ways – either a stranger challenges me to a game because they know who I am, tells me that they are better than me, and how much pain I’m going to suffer at their hands, or Person A told Person B who I was and what it signifies, and Player B doesn’t believe them, demands proof, and tells player A that I’m a lair, or because an innocent tournament player (or group of gamers) is suffering at the hands of a TFG who is abusing them and being obnoxious about it – and they ask me to come to whatever store/wherever place/etc and shut them down. In these kind of cases, I make a HUGE deal about how I love a challenge, so not only am I going to play the worst codex in 40k against their super-powered army, but I’m also going to use an army that does what the army is worst at. That’s right – CLOSE COMBAT NECRONS!

I have two themes of close combat Necrons; Wraith-Wing and Tomb-Spyder Wing.

Today’s guide is going to focus on the less mentally challenged of the two, the Wraith Wing. I had hoped to skip this kind of guide and simply have battle reports from some of the GTs coming up over the next six months, but with a new Codex apparently a certainty and a mere 2-4 months away…waiting would render the advice and tactical analysis of the army useless and no longer applicable. I have *no* illusions about the power of the codex, how underwhelming it is – and I like to tell people that I’ve never met a Necron army that I didn’t laugh off the table. I’m very grateful that my use of them thus far has been so successful, but I harbor no illusions that they will meet their untimely demise sooner or later. When I’m in “shutting down a gakface” mode, my backup plan if they fail to humiliate is to say, “Oh...well if you can beat a bad Necron Army, you’re worth my time” and getting out one of my GT armies. =p

SO! This guide is meant to show you what I play, how I play it, and for you Necron players out there….hopefully to see some last minute resurgence of Necron domination before we go the way of IG. So few people remember how gak the old IG were, only that Mech IG is ridiculous. =D

Part I: Dashofpepper’s 2,000 Point Wraith Wing
HQ: Deceiver
HQ: Necron Lord + Destroyer Body + Phase Shifter + Rez Orb + Warscythe
Troop: 11x Warriors
Troop: 12x Warriors
Fast Attack: 3x Wraiths
Fast Attack: 3x Wraiths
Fast Attack: 3x Wraiths
Heavy Support: Monolith
Heavy Support: Monolith
Heavy Support: Monolith

A few notes to address questions that usually come up.

1. Yes, there are 33 Necrons in that army – many fewer than in most Necron armies. Contrary to popular belief, this does not make them easier to phase out, it makes them harder to phase out. While fewer actual models need to be killed to trigger a phase out, a greater portion of the army needs to be killed. 25% of a huge army is a significant force left on the board that could have done something if not for phasing out. Whereas in my army….phase out will literally mean that every unit is dead anyway. I can lose all my warriors and not phase out. I can lose all my wraiths, my destroyer lord, and either warrior unit and still not phase out. More on survivability later.

2. For the purpose of this guide, presume that when a Monolith Deep-strikes within 1” of an enemy unit, they move out of the way. There has been ample discussion in the YMDC forum on Dakka about what happens when a Monolith deep-strikes onto or near enemy units given that the main rules have changed in how deep-striking happens. There are some who interpret the Monolith’s special rules to mean that it will roll a mishap as normal, and move enemy models out of the way on a result of 1-2, but mishap normally on any other result. Others point out that the rule was written when the only mishap result was to be destroyed, meaning that it is intended to avoid mishaps. I play the latter method. Moreover, I’ve yet to play against an opponent who thought it works the other way, nor have any TOs from either local, regional, or GT events that I’m planning on taking Necrons to told me that it works the other way. That isn’t an assurance that you don’t need to check, because you still do. But in 100% of my experience, I’ve not had it ever come up. Keep in mind that YMDC madness is in no way any reflection of actual, real-life 40k. If you intend to post in this thread to argue about it, go rage in one of the YMDC threads about Monolith deep-striking, because I neither want, nor care about your opinion.

3. Deceiver vs. Nightbringer: I get this question a lot. Simply put, neither C’Tan can truly afford to be stuck in combat against their will while the enemy brings their potency to bear. Either C’Tan would gladly assault a unit of 5 TH/SS terminators. Neither C’Tan would be happy to be stuck in combat the following enemy assault phase when two more units of TH/SS assault terminators pile into them on the assault. I primarily use the Deceiver because of the Misdirect ability. He takes his sweet time getting across the board, but as soon as he hits his first combat, he’s averaging 19” of movement per turn after that.

4. I like analogies, so I’m going to use one here and say that a Necron army is like a fortress. Each component of the army is a piece of the castle. The Deceiver is a moat full of poisonous fish that attackers are afraid to get past. The Monoliths are the fortress walls and cannons. The Wraiths and Destroyer Lord are roped Ballistae. The Necron Warriors....well, they're the castle compost heap. Smelly, offensive, useless, and ultimately a mandatory horror that can't be avoided.


Part II: Deceiver Tactics
1. The Deceiver is my beatstick. At T8, he’s a pain to wound, and while he has an innate dislike of force weapons, most force weapons are also not strong enough to wound him. Grey Knights are a good example. Nemesis Force Weapons can instant-kill him because he doesn’t have Eternal Warrior – another remnant of ancient rules when Instant Death worked differently, and T8 was enough to make sure that it never occurred. However, all those tasty Nemesis Force Weapons (with a few exceptions) are STR4, which can’t hurt T8 – which means that all those Grey Knights can either cast Hammerhand for +1 STR to try wounding on 6s, or they can activate their force weapons. Obviously, there are exceptions. An attached IC casting hammerhand on a unit which activates its own force weapons is potential trouble. ICs who are strong enough to wound the Deceiver and have force weapons are trouble – unless they are 3 wounds or less and strike at I4 or below.

2. Deceive: During the shooting phase, he can try to pin anything. Including fearless units. He can also make them fall back (unless they are fearless, in which case they take fearless wounds – a rather useless ability). What’s more, I learned the other day that he can run *and* Deceive – since Deceive isn’t a shooting ability. Nor does he have to assault the unit he deceives, since it isn’t a shooting attack, nor a PSA. I was surprised to find that This was universally accepted. Just goes to show that about the time you think you know what you’re doing, you find out that you don’t – so always keep an open mind!

3. Grand Illusion: I’m not sure that I’ve *ever* seen anyone fall for my bait, but the trick I usually try is to put my Deceiver somewhere exposed to try tempting opponents to deploy units in response to shoot at him, then to redeploy him behind some cover somewhere. My opponents tend to just ignore him anyway though, and I feel dumb for having done so. =p

4. Misdirect: The jewel of the Deceiver. This ability is pure awesome. He can consolidate out of any combat before attacks are made. The obvious tactic: Charge, hope to stay locked in combat so you can’t be shot at during the enemy turn, then consolidate 2D6 out of combat during the enemy assault phase, with an automatic 6” move and 6” assault during your own turn. My main uses for this are to hammer a unit down in size so that the wraiths can come in and finish them off, to create physical roadblocks of close combat, or to “force-kite” enemy units toward or away from something I want. Some examples:

-Hammer: C’Tan assaults a unit of 5 terminators, and kills three of them. The other two aren’t worth staying in combat for when he has 5 attacks on the charge probably hitting on 3+ and definitely wounding on 2+. He’ll consolidate out 2d6 and use his 12” move to get to another target to hammer on while the wraiths and Destroyer Lord move in behind to assault and finish the unit off.

-Roadblock: Enemy unit(s) are moving towards objectives in midfield, which are the mandatory 12” away from each other. A monolith is 7” or so across. A monolith (or hopefully two) attempt (and hopefully land) on top of each objective, or slightly behind it so that teleporting warriors will be sitting on it. Between the two monoliths is a 5-6” gap. The Deceiver moves up to one of the monoliths and is now amply prepared to thwart any effort to either go around the monolith or go between them. I actively look for instances where I can use a Deceiver assault (carefully positioned during the consolidate, move and assault phase) to create a physical roadblock that stops enemy units from getting by / doing anything useful / etc. I had a game last weekend where I had two monoliths in midfield, warriors in my backfield, and the enemy (playing DOA Blood Angel Sanguinary Guard) deep-struck his entire army in my backfield to shoot up my warriors and prepare to assault them. I wasn’t expecting it, and my Deceiver had been busily making his way up to midfield. On my turn, both warrior units teleported through the monolith portals onto the enemy side of the field – leaving the entire army without the ability to get to the warriors without going the long way around over 2-3 turns, or trying to make it through the Deceiver in two turns to get to the warriors. Bam: Roadblock assault.

-Force-kiting. Nothing is more annoying than the blob of Guardsmen, terminators, marines, Orks, etc sitting on an objective that you don’t have the firepower to shoot off, or the assault power to wipe out. Thus, the Force Kite! Imagine this: 30 Orks sitting on an objective. If your warriors could rapid fire them, the warriors would get assaulted in return. The full complement of wraiths and the destroyer lord can eat through the unit, but it will take at least two turns, and there’s the rest of the army to deal with. Force-kiting is using the Deceiver’s misdirect power to continually pull enemy units in one direction. In the example I just gave: The Deceiver gets his initial assault. 30 Orks pile in. Only one Ork can actually do any damage. You kill a few orks, he takes a few fearless saves. During his assault turn, you consolidate 2D6 out of combat in the direction that you are going to want the orks to go. Then you assault them from that direction. Consolidate out, assault back in – each time forcing a 6” defender react and potential 6” pile-in in the direction that you want. I’ve pulled everything you can think of off of objectives. With only two troop choices, I’ll contest if I must, but I’d rather make the enemy unable to contest themselves and leave the objective open for potential teleportation, or simply untouched so that I can focus elsewhere.

5. Deceiver tricks: The Deceiver can also phase through terrain as if it didn’t exist, with the single exception that he cannot end his movement in impassable terrain. Two common tricks that I utilize are to put the Deceiver behind BLOS terrain (like a monolith, or preferably terrain in midfield) and to wait for something to get within 12”. A lot of folks who “know” that he phases through terrain don’t remember, or recognize the fact on the table – because they are thinking in terms of their own movement capability, and 6” is 6” right? This also works on the assault. You can ignore the 1” rule when making an assault – meaning that you can situationally phase through an enemy screening unit to hit the one behind it if there’s enough room for him without ending his assault move on top of an enemy model (which is treated as impassable terrain).


Part III: Monoliths

I had originally tagged Monoliths as Part IV, but bumped them up. I should have done them first. Monoliths are the cornerstone of a wraith wing. These three models are the most important in the entire army. I've procrastinated finishing this section for almost a week to put more thought into it, and as it is, I'm *extremely* concerned that I'm still not going to cover all the important points. If you see anything I missed, feel free to add it and I'll consider it for an edit. As a general principle, Monoliths four three general purposes in a Necron Army:

1. Death Dispensation (Particle Whips and Flux Arcs)
2. HAHAHA NOPE! (Mobile BLOS Terrain)
3. I can waddle further than you can turbo-boost (Teleportation)
4. Oh, did you call dibs on that objective? (Contesting objectives)

Death Dispensation:
Particle Whips are STR9 AP3 Ordinance Large blasts firing at BS4 that cause an AP1 hit to the model under the hole; which is their saving grace against vehicles with high armour values. I won't start repeating all the Monolith rules here because you presumably have a codex. Great for taking down Land Raiders and predators if you're in range, the odd dreadnought, and...truth be told, not much else. AP3 works wonders against marine squads, but you won't need help killing them. Large blasts are great against hordes, but they'll usually have cover. Terminators have 2+ armour saves, and while you might land on target and score an AP1 hit, it isn't particularly meaningful, especially if they have cover or invulnerable saves. I primarily use my particle whips as self-defense: To take down things that can hurt my Monoliths - namely, lascannons. Particle Whips can be fired from any of the weapon mounts on the Monolith. A Monolith is about 7.5" tall, and the flux arcs are about 4.5" up and on each corner - so you can literally fire around the corner of buildings, or use lateral movement to line up a shot against enemy armour that would deny them cover that they would otherwise get. A frequent tactic that I use is to check armour facings on a vehicle that I'd like to fire at, then see if my Monolith can move in such a way that it can put one flux arc LOS into side armour - and circumvent cover it would get against its front arc.

Flux Arcs: STR5 AP4; nothing special but they *are* Gauss weapons and glance any armour on a 6! Against AV10, that same 6 is a penetrate. Since my monoliths are primarily used for Items #2 and #3, I'm teleporting as often as not, and only have the flux arcs to use anyway. Since I play close combat Necrons, I'm not afraid of being within 12" of enemy units - preferably as many of them as I can to maximize the potential of the flux arcs. Yes...I *will* tank shock 6". Or charge a monolith towards a cluster of enemy units.

HAHAHA NOPE

Mobile Blocking Line of Sight Terrain. There's some famous (or infamous) bad advice floating around on how to defeat Necrons. "Ignore the Monoliths and go for the phase out." This leads to a lot of weaponry that could be killing monoliths being fired at Necrons instead. This is a *good* thing. My army has 32 Necron models in it, with a phase out number of 8. Kill 23 single-wound models and one multi-wound model that have 3+ or 3++ and I'm done. In truth, you can't fire at what you can't see. Triple monoliths create a vast wall of LOS denial that you can move across the board, or literally "form" anywhere on the board within about two turns. I use them in four ways:

1. The Monolith Wall: This one is obvious - deployed in my deployment zone, moving up the board to get into 24" particle range while my Necrons hide behind them. Against armies with significant ability to kill them...not particularly advisable.

2. Deep-Striking Mobile BLOS: This is my best protection for both Deceiver and my Wraith Wing. Typically speaking, my Deceiver is trying to get across the board as quickly as possible to make something happen. Move/run in turn one, followed by a monolith deep-striking between him and where he's trying to go - ideally such that he can move and run to get behind it and still be out of LOS. There's only one opportunity for a Monolith to move Cruising speed per game...and that's during a deep-strike! I'm not particularly concerned about thunderhammers and worse when they need 6+ to hit. And if anything *dares* to actually assault the Monolith, they're going to be greeted by the friendly Deceiver in my following turn. The other use is for the wraith-wing WBBs. A turn one move or turbo-boost up the field...casualties taken...and before I take WBBs, I deep-strike Monoliths onto the table within 18" to have a second WBB if I need it. If I have to take it, that generally means that the remainder of the wraith-wing is *also* going to have to turbo-boost over to the Monolith to either bring the rez orb to the teleporting Wraiths, or bring the remaining units of wraiths to the teleported rez orb. But presenting a 6" by 6" Monolith with a door facing whichever way you need (like towards your own deployment zone) as a backup plan / safeguard is quite handy. There are risks - you may roll poorly for reserves and not get any Monoliths. You may scatter 12" away from where you need to be. Risk management is always king in 40k, just keep it in mind.

3. The inaccessible Firing Platform: Impassable terrain is GREAT for a wraith-wing. Your combat units can phase right through it, and your Monoliths can land on top of it where they're safe from assault. Nothing beats particle whipping a Battle Wagon that has a Deff-Rolla with Ghazghkull inside. Nothing in the army can actually hurt you. Against certain armies, I'll happily trade being immobilized ( for DT) on top of impassable terrain in exchange for being impervious to damage.

I can Waddle Further Than You Can Turbo-Boost!

Wraiths have a potential charge range of 42". 18" range to the Monolith, 6" through the monolith to the front, 12" move, 6" charge.
Warriors have a potential movement range of 36". 18" range to the Monolith, 6" through the monolith to the front, 6" move, D6 run.

A few weeks ago, I had a game against Sanguinary Guard Blood Angels. Nasty buggers - the whole army had 2+/4+ FNP. I had gone first. My wraiths turbo-boosted up the field on turn one. Turn two, both of my warrior units plodded onto the board and two monoliths deep-struck in center field. On my opponent turn two, he deep-struck his sanguinary guard in my deployment zone - preparing to beat the tar out of my warriors and go for the phase out. On my turn three, both warrior units teleported and ran about 30" away - two turns worth of movement to even get back into range to threaten me...if I stayed still.

Necrons don't have the firepower or assault capability to simply wipe armies off the table like other codices do - but we *do* have the tools to neutralize threats. Teleportation is also half my strategy in winning objective games. Late in the game, I start teleporting scoring units onto objectives.


Oh, did you call dibs on that objective?:

My Wraith Wing only has two troop choices. In objective games - with potentially 5 objectives on the table, two troop choices don't cut it. However...those two troop choices can grab 2-4 objectives (more than two being from spreading out to hold multiple objectives), while a gigantic block of living metal deep-striking onto an objective or moving onto it make a great contesting unit - incredibly hard to budge. I actually use the Deceiver for a similar tactic by lining him up in the middle of a couple of objectives to go pounce on anything foolish enough to get near them. If there's a BLOS piece of terrain on the board, and you're placing objectives...place one a few inches in front of the terrain feature, and the next 12" behind it. With the Deceiver guarding the BLOS terrain, he'll avoid fire, be in assault range of the front objective, and be able to assault anything passing by the first to get to the second. Monoliths can do the same thing - If objectives are exactly 12" apart, a monolith can sit exactly between them and contest both! 6" wide monolith, putting it 3" from each.


Part IV: Wraith Wing and the Destroyer Lord

If Monoliths are the foundation of a Wraith Wing army, the Wraith Wing itself is a series of gigantic ballista with ropes tied to the end of each so that they can be fired, pulled back to the castle, and fired again.

The wraith wing starts as three units of three wraiths, with the destroyer lord attached to one of the three units. A lot of how they move, what distance they keep for coherency, or how they mix depends on what terrain looks like and what you’re fighting against, but I’ll do my best to give a couple general rules along with some pictures later on.

Rule #1: Stick together! The strength of a wraith wing is in its 6” WBB to another unit rule. Don’t assault things that would pull all three models out of 6” range of another wraith unit and the rez orb. Don’t move your wraiths up the field at 2” coherency distance to each other where a flank of one wraith unit could be assaulted to pull the entire unit out of 6” of the lord or another wraith unit. All ten of these models need to stick together to succeed. Just remember this basic premise: If every wraith is within 6” of the Lord with the Rez Orb, all wraiths will always have it. Start from that foundational rule, and you can spread out to avoid templates in directions that the enemy can’t hit you from.

Rule #2: Use BLOS/Impassable terrain! 3++ saves are nice, but they don’t make you invulnerable to everything – volume of fire can still take you down. Since you can phase through terrain, you can do something enemy units cannot. More importantly, that BLOS terrain can protect one of your wraith units (like the one with the Lord) from being shot at while the other two take fire.

Rule #3: Try Merging Wraith Units! This one is extremely important. A Monolith can only teleport a single unit per turn. Three monoliths let three wraith units teleport once per turn, but means that the Energy Matrix isn’t available to Particle Whip anything. I actively look for and solicit the destruction of 1-2 of my wraith units. If I lose two out of three wraiths in a unit…I have two WBB rolls to make, and may have to teleport through a Monolith to try bringing the others back to life too. If I have a unit of wraiths teleporting through a monolith…keep Rule #1 in mind. I either need to move the rest of my wraiths over to the wraiths by the monolith, or the wraiths at the Monolith need to move out to get back to the rest of the wraiths…combat mobility is reduced. When a wraith unit dies completely, it WBBs into a like unit within 6”. One unit of six wraiths (or five according to mathhammer) is far better than two units of three. Those six wraiths only need a single monolith for teleportation and WBB support, leaving a previously tapped Monolith free to use weaponry or to teleport warriors around the field.

I’ll often set up an inverse L shaped wraith formation. The Lord and his wraiths go inside, and the other two wraith units wall off the direction that enemy fire or assaults will come from. I *want* those wraiths to die so that I can get my superwraith unit earlier. Destroyers suffer for losing units; instead of being able to fire at two targets with two units, they merge into one and can only fire at one unit. Wraiths have no such downside. All nine of those would be assaulting the same place anyway, so making them a bigger single unit is advantageous.

Destroyer Lord
The Destroyer Lord is T6, with a 3+/4++ and three wounds. His positioning is extremely important within the wraith wing, especially in assaults. The ideal assault is one where the Necron Lord is in base contact with only 1-2 models, who do not have power-weapons or rending, while the 9 wraiths are in base contact with everything within 3-4” of the Lord. Enemy models in base contact with a wraith only can’t attack a lord, and using those wraiths to block access to the Lord from power weapons is important. Combat won’t always be optimal like this – there are times when my Lord hangs back behind the wraiths, such that when I assault in, my Lord doesn’t make it into base contact. Protect the Destroyer Lord, he keeps the wraithwing going!

On the tabletop in a game where I’m fielding Necrons, you can expect my wraiths to be zooming around 24” per turn to get into assault range of targets, hiding behind (or in) terrain, and jumping into and out of combat. Assaulting into an enemy, devastating them at I6, losing a couple of models, then teleporting out of combat the next turn to charge back in is great fun. Not to mention that Wraiths are the only jetbikes in 40k that can turbo-boost into terrain! And out of it. Without any dangerous terrain tests! Its not that useful though – cover saves will never beat their inherent 3++.

Returning to the idea of impassable terrain for a minute, and how great it is for Necrons: Monoliths can land on top of impassable terrain. Wraiths and a Destroyer Lord also count as jetbikes, which can land on impassable terrain. If you need to avoid an assault, you can jump out of reach. A monolith on top of impassable terrain with a portal opening into the impassable terrain lets you teleport safely around the board. And the wraiths don't need to take dangerous terrain tests for ending up on top of impassable terrain! =D


Part V: Using the Warriors

So back to the castle analogy - we've got walls, ballistae, moats, cannons...we need a place for the warriors. And I know EXACTLY where they fit in!! Necron Warriors are the corner pile of crap where the peasants dump their offal, and the castle lord's evil and deranged mother-in-law claws out a home for herself and screams at the passing peasants that they need to RESPECT HER PROPERTAH RIGHTS TO CASTLE POO!

Worse, they're the only troop option, come in a minimum size of 10, have no upgrades, and mean that 360 points of your army is automatically forced to consist of smelly unwanted mother-in-law domiciles.

There are two schools of thought on Necron Warriors:

School #1: Take lots of them. More Necron Warriors give a higher phase out number, and you have to kill more models to Phase out the necrons. The downsides are that you're tying up more points in *really* bad units, and that you have more models are on the table getting phased out - I don't think that it makes sense to have so many points tied up in units that aren't going to do much on the table.

School #2: Take as few as possible. You have a lower phase out number, but by the time you hit 25%, you have fewer models on the table, and less combat capability to *BE* phased out.

Necron Warriors serve four purposes on the battlefield.

1. Bait: A tasty unit of Necron Warriors sitting haplessly by waiting to be assaulted...mmmmm, tasty. I typically reserve my warriors and walk them on from the table edge - meaning that my opponents are going to need to get past my Deceiver, the wraiths, and my monoliths to get to them. Deep-striking units (DoA, terminators, etc) can make a stab for them, or outflanking Baal predators, Ork kommandos, wolf scouts, etc. The enemy closes in to beat your face in and...zwoop! Your warriors teleport away.

2. Meat Tenderizer: Warriors have STR4 AP5 rapid fire weapons. Not particularly awe inspiring. 10 Warriors rapid firing 20 shots against Marines...13 hits, 6 wounds, two dead marines. Not a whole lot to scare anyone, and given their low weapon skill, lack of invulnerable saves, and the glee in which people like to try to sweeping advance them...not a tactic I prefer to try. Where they *can* be a useful pile of poo is in softening up a target for wraiths to assault. The *only* time I'll risk exposing my warriors into assault range of something is if their assault can't wipe my warriors out, or if I'm going to assault what would be threatening my warriors - thereby taking them out of assault threat. I typically don't even do this because that power matrix is either getting used to teleport wraiths or to particle whip something. Nonetheless, on occasion an opportunity arises for warriors to lay down a massive fusillade of fire without threat of retaliation, and you should keep it in mind.

3. Objective grabber: Two of every three missions are objective based...and half of those have multiple objectives. The key to winning with only two Necron warrior units in an objective mission is twofold. First, 1" bases, 2" coherency means that 10 warriors can theoretically cover 30" of ground. It is not unrealistic for a single warrior squad to snag two objectives, and if the bulk of your army is tying up the enemy, its quite doable. Most common is having Monoliths sitting on top of objectives contesting them, while Warriors teleport wherever they need to in order to hold one - such that at the end of the game, you've got one or two objectives and are contesting the rest.

4. Anti-tank: Gauss weapons glance on a six against anything, and a speeding rhino/razorback/vendetta (especially a smoked one) headed towards either an objective or one of your warrior squads is a common sight. Wasting a Particle whip that might scatter off or get shrugged off by a cover save is a poor use of resources. Wraiths are probably busy elsewhere, and while I'll throw the Deceiver at a land raider...a light transport isn't worth the effort. Many a games have been won by warriors stunning a rhino that was going to attempt delivering a troop choice to a backfield objective.

In general, the primary role of warriors in my wraith wing is to stay out of the way, not die and contribute towards a phase out, and desperately look for an opportunity to be useful on the field. They virtually always start the game in reserve and walk on the board edge unless I need them starting on the table, and I never have and probably never will bring them in from reserves through a Monolith portal.


I’ll talk more about where to deploy them – when to use the Monoliths to hide wraiths, when to move aggressively with them, etc in the last section of this tactica.


Still to come:
Part VI: Typical Deployment Strategies

great work dude. im hoping that this will go well and you will do the tomb-spider article afterwards

Necrons are very good at killing newbies...everybody else, not so much.

Hmm, I'm not so sure of the Deciever's ability to ignore the 1" rule. Enemy units aren't exactly terrain.

Dash I gotta say I love these guides. I dont play any of the Armies you do but reading them is helping me look at the units I play and in evaluating my own playstyle.

Thanks for the write ups.

Cheers,
~Volkan

The Grog wrote:Hmm, I'm not so sure of the Deciever's ability to ignore the 1" rule. Enemy units aren't exactly terrain.

I think you misunderstand me. ALL assaulting units and models ignore the 1" rule. You can freely pass within 1" of enemy models to assault other units, etc.

What this means for the Deceiver is the ability to potentially pass THROUGH enemy models if your assault will get you into base contact with them while not leaving you phased into impassable terrain (read: enemy unit you passed through). It is situational.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Blackmoor wrote:Necrons are very good at killing newbies...everybody else, not so much.

I'd give you a list of what noteables my Necrons have beaten up on using which tournament lists, but 10 people would accuse me of bragging, 5 more would say that I only got lucky, another 2 would say that I was flat out lying, and the thread would disappear into nonsense.

Nonetheless, your statement is an overgeneralization and inaccurate.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Blackmoor wrote:Necrons are very good at killing newbies...everybody else, not so much.

I'd give you a list of what noteables my Necrons have beaten up on using which tournament lists, but 10 people would accuse me of bragging, 5 more would say that I only got lucky, another 2 would say that I was flat out lying, and the thread would disappear into nonsense.

Nonetheless, your statement is an overgeneralization and inaccurate.

Over generalization, of course! Incorrect? Maybe, maybe not.

The necron build you have is tough to kill. You have the lord with a rez-orb and monoliths to re-roll your will-be-back. That means that what ever you take down will not stay down for long.

If you beat 10 players with the latest, greatest lists that is fine. You certainly have the tools to beat some of the good lists.

But (and there is always a but), good players who have experience playing necrons should be able to beat them. The fact that no one sees them, and no one who has started the hobby within the last 5 years has ever played against them before certainly plays to your favor (along with 3rd edition rules that are incompatible with 5th edition).

Of those players that you have beaten I wonder if they can tell me all of the ways to neutralize WBB so you do not even get a roll?

Dashofpepper wrote:

The Grog wrote:Hmm, I'm not so sure of the Deciever's ability to ignore the 1" rule. Enemy units aren't exactly terrain.

I think you misunderstand me. ALL assaulting units and models ignore the 1" rule. You can freely pass within 1" of enemy models to assault other units, etc.

What this means for the Deceiver is the ability to potentially pass THROUGH enemy models if your assault will get you into base contact with them while not leaving you phased into impassable terrain (read: enemy unit you passed through). It is situational.

I think his point is that enemy models are not terrain, thus C'tan can not pass through them.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:

The Grog wrote:Hmm, I'm not so sure of the Deciever's ability to ignore the 1" rule. Enemy units aren't exactly terrain.

I think you misunderstand me. ALL assaulting units and models ignore the 1" rule. You can freely pass within 1" of enemy models to assault other units, etc.

What this means for the Deceiver is the ability to potentially pass THROUGH enemy models if your assault will get you into base contact with them while not leaving you phased into impassable terrain (read: enemy unit you passed through). It is situational.

I think his point is that enemy models are not terrain, thus C'tan can not pass through them.

Then he needs to re-read the rulebook. Enemy models are treated as impassable terrain.

But (and there is always a but), good players who have experience playing necrons should be able to beat them. The fact that no one sees them, and no one who has started the hobby within the last 5 years has ever played against them before certainly plays to your favor (along with 3rd edition rules that are incompatible with 5th edition).

I'd like to think I have experience playing necrons, and can beat them, when they are used in the traditional sense. However, Dash is playing them in an entirely unconventional style. It's very doubtful even good players will expect some of the moves he is pulling with this codex. Imagine if someone built a Tau list made for close combat, that with the right amount of juice could beat up even a fairly competitive Blood Angels super-deep-strike army. It would throw me off, everyone I know, and their neighbours too.
These tactics demand respect, and additionally shouldn't be looked at as something you will potentially tailor your best and most up-to-date codex against. Imagine your trusty TAC list going against this style of play in a competitive environment, and get back to me.

Blackmoor wrote:
Of those players that you have beaten I wonder if they can tell me all of the ways to neutralize WBB so you do not even get a roll?

I actually can't think of a single one. Like what? The only one I've ever heard argued were things like JotWW - which says to remove the model from play. Except...WBB explicitly says that instead of removing the model from play, lay it on its side.

Are there others?

Double toughness weapons negate WBB meaning as aforesaid Necrons will have a tough time winning in the current missile spam type lists.

InquisitorVaron wrote:Double toughness weapons negate WBB meaning as aforesaid Necrons will have a tough time winning in the current missile spam type lists.

Unless a Rez Orb is present. And it is. 3++ Invulnerable save, 4+ WBB, second 4+ WBB. I'm not aware of any weapon in the game that can stop it.

The list you posted seems like it might have trouble with certain Grey knights lists. With only one res orb your lord will see a lot of attacks come his way at the same time as your wraiths. Have you played any GK lists with it? Or DE for that matter?

Hmmn ouch. Thats a nice list. 180 Orks might rain on your parade though. Ghaz and some MANz and Deff rollas and Kanz. I would admit that list is tough as old leather boots.

What would be needed too kill for you too phase out.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Blackmoor wrote:Necrons are very good at killing newbies...everybody else, not so much.

I'd give you a list of what noteables my Necrons have beaten up on using which tournament lists, but 10 people would accuse me of bragging, 5 more would say that I only got lucky, another 2 would say that I was flat out lying, and the thread would disappear into nonsense.

Nonetheless, your statement is an overgeneralization and inaccurate.

Can I just say Dash, that that is a very good and mature response.

I don't want to sound condescending when I say that, but I really think that is. Kudos.


The tactica's looking really good so far, I'd like to see some more competitive bat-reps of your crons too. I'm also looking forward to your methods with Tomb Spyders... Great work Dash, helping contribute to the community.

Dashofpepper wrote:

InquisitorVaron wrote:Double toughness weapons negate WBB meaning as aforesaid Necrons will have a tough time winning in the current missile spam type lists.

Unless a Rez Orb is present. And it is. 3++ Invulnerable save, 4+ WBB, second 4+ WBB. I'm not aware of any weapon in the game that can stop it.

Look no further than your own army list then: Drain Life, pg 27 Codex: Necrons.

I am actually very curious on how your deployment works with the wraiths and warriors. Mainly how close everything is to each other (for res orb) and what happens during assaults.

@Darkness Eternal: Drain Life prevents regeneration due to wargear. WBB is not wargear. Nor does the Rez Orb grant WBB, it simply stops it from being taken away.

@InquisitorVaron: 180 Orks. It statistically takes 72 attacks from an Ork boy who's being charged from a wraith take put one wraith down and keep it down. I play Orks, there are no surprises there. I've played against Ghazghkull and Battlewagon spam fairly often. Most tournament tables have at least one impassable piece of terrain, which you can't ram through - I tend to play ring around the rosie with things that can deffrolla me if its possible. I also like to jump my monoliths up on top of impassable terrain where they can't be assaulted; a working and potentially immobilized monolith is better than a dead one. I'll get into this much more later in the tactica. Kans....can't deal with the Deceiver. He blows through them, and wraiths don't do such a bad job either. More on all this later too.

@Dok: I've played my fair share against GK. There are never a lot of attacks coming in against the Lord, and there never *will* be. Generally speaking, when he's in assault, he's only in base with one model, and everyone else is forced to attack the wraiths. More on that later too. I've also played against a variety of Dark Eldar armies, including a fething WWP army that had 45 wyches on foot with haywire grenades and another full unit of bloodbrides - also with haywire grenades. I lost one monolith to a wych assault, and did some significant roadblocking with wraiths and the Deceiver to keep other stuff away from my Monoliths. I blocked off one WWP with wraiths, and a good chunk of his army had to come out from his table edge. The only scary things in a GK army are Daemonhammers that get to the Monoliths, STR5+ force weapons against the Deceiver, and mass psyfleman fire against wraiths in the open getting teamed up against by a crapton of psycannons. Against Dark Eldar, haywire weapons are the only scary thing. Again....more on this later.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

tiekwando wrote:I am actually very curious on how your deployment works with the wraiths and warriors. Mainly how close everything is to each other (for res orb) and what happens during assaults.

More on this later; haven't gotten there yet. =D

Well every list has a hard counter, in the case of Dash's wraithwing I'm going to call it as a sad tier 2 army that can never seem to come to it's full potential especially against tier 1 armies.

I've got a friend at the FLGS that shows amazing stoicism by taking crimson fists into tournaments against tier 1 opponents where it really struggles against tier 1 armies like mech BA, mech IG, and space puppies. He's a good painter and and shows even better sportsmanship, but imperial fists with pedro really struggle against a lot of armies, but not Necrons with a C'Tan and monoliths.

Anyhow here is what's usually in the list.

Pedro
Librarian with nullzone
30 sternguard as scoring units,3 squads, 3 rhinos, all with bolters or combi meltas.
20 Tac marines, 2 squads, 2 rhinos
3 Vindicators

I've actually played against that army a lot, it also kind of struggles against CSM especially plague marines, but I don't see a way for Dash to beat it.

Nullzone+ Hellfire rounds=Dead C'tan
Nullzone+ Hellfire rounds=Dead wraiths
Vindicators can hurt a monolith with an excellent chance to pen because living metal doesn't cancel a reroll from a S10 ordinance.
Hiding behind the monolith just means the pie is centered on a monolith and catches a unit also.

That being said Dash doesn't need to worry about imperial fists in a tournament because he will probably never run into it at a tournament. It's a rarely played army, rarely seen at a tournament, and honestly after round 1 or 2 in a tournament it's probably not going to be at the top tables with Dash.

Now the army I'm really curious about going up against a wraith wing like that would be dark eldar. It seems like that would be an interesting match up.

Dashofpepper wrote:
@InquisitorVaron: 180 Orks. It statistically takes 72 attacks from an Ork boy who's being charged from a wraith take put one wraith down and keep it down. I play Orks, there are no surprises there.

It is ironic then that it takes 27 Slugga Boyz on the charge (on average) to kill your 9 Wraiths.

Blackmoor wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:
@InquisitorVaron: 180 Orks. It statistically takes 72 attacks from an Ork boy who's being charged from a wraith take put one wraith down and keep it down. I play Orks, there are no surprises there.

It is ironic then that it takes 27 Slugga Boyz on the charge (on average) to kill your 9 Wraiths.

On the other hand I don't think they will get the charge that often, I mean wraiths do get 12" of moving through anything plus 6" assault.

Also where are those numbers coming from? I calculated it takes 48 attacks from s4 orks to kill a wraith and keep it dead (50% chance to hit, 50% to wound, 33% unsaved, 50% wbb, 50% second wbb). So 12 orks/wraith which means 108 orks. Unless I missed something.

Even if I did wraiths have a higher I so they will take quite a few with them.

*edit actually only .347 per attack, so with 3 attacks each just over 1 per wraith, and the lord kills 1 as well.

Blackmoor wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:
@InquisitorVaron: 180 Orks. It statistically takes 72 attacks from an Ork boy who's being charged from a wraith take put one wraith down and keep it down. I play Orks, there are no surprises there.

It is ironic then that it takes 27 Slugga Boyz on the charge (on average) to kill your 9 Wraiths.

Actually, that would be 28. Moreso, it would take 28 slugga boyz attacking, not 28 slugga boyz charging - which is literally a tabletop impossibility.

1. Wraiths go first.

2. Such a situation would require nine wraiths lined up neatly in a horizontal line to be assaulted by Orks. Not only that, but it would need to be multiple Ork units - 11 Orks are going to die before they get to swing.

Blackmoor, do you really think me that tactically incompetent? With superior mobility, the ability to teleport around, and the fact that those nine wraiths come in three units of three - of which the worst case is them assaulting into three of them...which all die and consolidate into a different wraith unit...why are you presenting these kind of scenarios? I value your input on Dakka, have come to you a time or two for Eldar advice for friends of mine, had fun in our game last year at the SiS GT....I'm confused to your contributions to this thread. How many Guardsmen on the assault does it take to kill 9 wraiths? 9 Obliterators getting the charge against them will surely get the job done if there's no monoliths available to teleport them out.

Happy to have you comment, just please shy away from the ridiculous.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tiekwando wrote:

Also where are those numbers coming from? I calculated it takes 48 attacks from s4 orks to kill a wraith and keep it dead (50% chance to hit, 50% to wound, 33% unsaved, 50% wbb, 50% second wbb). So 12 orks/wraith which means 108 orks. Unless I missed something.

He's talking about killing all the wraiths at once so that the units disappear and don't get a WBB at all.

tiekwando wrote:

Blackmoor wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:
@InquisitorVaron: 180 Orks. It statistically takes 72 attacks from an Ork boy who's being charged from a wraith take put one wraith down and keep it down. I play Orks, there are no surprises there.

It is ironic then that it takes 27 Slugga Boyz on the charge (on average) to kill your 9 Wraiths.

On the other hand I don't think they will get the charge that often, I mean wraiths do get 12" of moving through anything plus 6" assault.

Also where are those numbers coming from? I calculated it takes 48 attacks from s4 orks to kill a wraith and keep it dead (50% chance to hit, 50% to wound, 33% unsaved, 50% wbb, 50% second wbb). So 12 orks/wraith which means 108 orks. Unless I missed something.

Even if I did wraiths have a higher I so they will take quite a few with them.

*edit actually only .347 per attack, so with 3 attacks each just over 1 per wraith, and the lord kills 1 as well.

This is a prime example of what I was talking about when I said that people who do not know how to avoid WBB are at a huge disadvantage to it.

Since my comments have been called into question, let’s take a look at how easy it is to beat Necorns.

First off let’s talk about what ignores WBB:
Sure everyone knows that are either double toughness or weapons that grant no armor saves (AP3+ weapons and power weapons) will neutralize WWB. The one caveat is that is you have a resurrection orb, you get to ignore it and still get a WBB roll. The problem? Res orbs range is only 6” so your army is going to be in one tight packed ball. So not only can assaulting units pull them away from the res orb with the pile in move, but your army moves at 2 different speeds (6” and 12”) so it will be interesting to see you keep your units together.

The lesser known ways to ignore WBB:
The first one is my favorite, the one I call “Hey, where did everybody go?”
If you do not have the same type of unit left alive within 6” at the beginning of the turn you do not get a WBB roll. So if you have a unit that wanders out of 6” of the other units of that type that unit can be killed and will not be back, so be sure to target them. But where I find this nullification of WBB very useful is targeting units. If in one turn you can drop 9 wraiths (some armies will find it harder than others) there is no coming back, and they are gone for good. So when you are shooting at them, do not shoot a few shots at the deceiver, a few shots at a monolith and spread the others around, find one unit type and shoot at it until it is dead!

So what you are saying Mr. tiekwando (if I read you right) is that Orks can't kills 9 wraiths in one turn? Are you saying that orks can't get the charge? First off, they can assault from vehicles after a waagh, so your fast wraiths are not all that safe at range, also Orks are cheap. All you have to do is bubble wrap them with a unit of grotz or another ork squad and then you just counter attack. You can also shot them down with shoots and Lootas, and you can even use Dash's tactic of tank shocking them so that they are in a nice ball, and then unload burna death on them. Heck I bet you can tank shock so you can split the units up so they are over 6" apart so you do not need to kill all 9 but break them into bite sized pieces. Really, orks can kill 9 wraiths in one turn with out working up to much of a sweat.

Sweeping advance
This more than anything lead to the death of Necrons in 5th edition. Necrons have a profile of MEQs, but they can’t beat their way out of a wet paper bag in assault. The demise of Necons came because whenever you get them into assault they will break, and they will run, and you will destroy them in sweeping advance. (Note:I was talking about warriors/troops here)

New codex syndrome: Necrons are getting even worse with the new codexes that have been coming out (If that is possible).
IG: A few templates and massed shooting will ruin your day.
Space Wolves: Thunder Wolf Calvary and Long Fangs are going to Phase you out pretty fast.
Dark Eldar: will drop the deceiver without working up a sweat with poison weapons. Toughness 8? Who cares, they have the same chance to wound it as toughness 3, and you only have a 4+ save. Not to mention haywire grenades on monoliths.
And Grey Knights? Strength 10 force weapons (Demonhammers) with easily kill both of the hard to kill necron units, and gun down the wraiths.

I fancy myself a pretty good Necron player, and I would hate to go up against blackmoor with them!

That said, I'd only like to point out that the humble tactica that I wrote illustrates why I think I'd stand a chance.

Interesting read so far, Dash. I like where you're going with this, and it's a shame that all this will go down the drain when the next codex is released. However, I'm sure there will be lots of other fun things you can do better than anyone else in the new one too, so I guess I shouldn't worry.

My main question is...what next? Who qualifies as the worst once necrons get re-released? Tau? Chaos?

TAU by far. While CSM are a shadow of their former glory they are still a competitive army.

Dashofpepper wrote:
HQ: Deceiver
HQ: Necron Lord + Destroyer Body + Phase Shifter + Rez Orb + Warscythe
Troop: 11x Warriors
Troop: 12x Warriors
Fast Attack: 3x Wraiths
Fast Attack: 3x Wraiths
Fast Attack: 3x Wraiths
Heavy Support: Monolith
Heavy Support: Monolith
Heavy Support: Monolith

1. Yes, there are 33 Necrons in that army – many fewer than in most Necron armies. Contrary to popular belief, this does not make them easier to phase out, it makes them harder to phase out. While fewer actual models need to be killed to trigger a phase out, a greater portion of the army needs to be killed. 25% of a huge army is a significant force left on the board that could have done something if not for phasing out. Whereas in my army….phase out will literally mean that every unit is dead anyway. I can lose all my warriors and not phase out. I can lose all my wraiths, my destroyer lord, and either warrior unit and still not phase out. More on survivability later.

I am lost here. It seems you are saying a greater portion of your army needs to be killed to phase you out compared to other armies? Is 75% not 75% in any Necron list?

Monster Rain wrote:I fancy myself a pretty good Necron player, and I would hate to go up against blackmoor with them!

That said, I'd only like to point out that the humble tactica that I wrote illustrates why I think I'd stand a chance.

Don't get me wrong, Necrons can win. Monoliths are a PITA and those particle whips are nasty. There was a guy a couple of years ago who played in the UKGT and came in 5th place with Necrons and my hat goes off to him. Coming in 5th place with Necrons is much more impressive than winning the event with IG.

But what I said first still stands, Necorns will do much better against someone who does not know how to ignore WWB, than against someone who does. Everyone on here was saying how good they are, but I have to be the one to rain on everyone's parade and tell them that a good general who knows what he is doing will pick the army apart. There is a reason why no one plays them anymore, and that is it.

There codex is just too old and does not match up well to the new codexes. Heck, all they would need is to have the warriors stubborn and they would be 10x better but they don't, so they aren't. :(

Blackmoor wrote:Sweeping advance
This more than anything lead to the death of Necrons in 5th edition. Necrons have a profile of MEQs, but they can’t beat their way out of a wet paper bag in assault. The demise of Necons came because whenever you get them into assault they will break, and they will run, and you will destroy them in sweeping advance. (Note:I was talking about warriors/troops here)

Those are STR6 Marines (the wraiths). With invulnerable saves instead of armour saves. I'll address the warriors later - its part of my tactica. Three wraiths at I6. I haven't gotten to this part of my tactica yet, so we're sort of getting ahead of ourself. You really can't sweeping advance wraiths. They're a unit of 3 and I6. They either won combat or are all dead - and joining another unit. Probably one not in close combat. If all nine wraiths are committed, its because they're expected to win.

Assault the warriors. You can't assault warriors that you can't get to. For a variety of reasons. Again....more on that later.

Blackmoor wrote:
New codex syndrome: Necrons are getting even worse with the new codexes that have been coming out (If that is possible).
IG: A few templates and massed shooting will ruin your day.
Space Wolves: Thunder Wolf Calvary and Long Fangs are going to Phase you out pretty fast.
Dark Eldar: will drop the deceiver without working up a sweat with poison weapons. Toughness 8? Who cares, they have the same chance to wound it as toughness 3, and you only have a 4+ save. Not to mention haywire grenades on monoliths.
And Grey Knights? Strength 10 force weapons (Demonhammers) with easily kill both of the hard to kill necron units, and gun down the wraiths.

Yes - those all work against Necron players without any particular tabletop skill. *THIS* Tactica is meant to redress the bad mistakes that some Necron players make. Prime example: Dark Eldar. Oooh...scary. Haywire Grenade the monoliths! Splinter cannon down the Deceiver! Well...those haywire grenades need to survive to *get* to the monolith, The Deceiver has to be in LOS to get shot at with splinter cannons. Interestingly....the Deceiver (and wraiths for that matter) are pretty good at keeping those haywire grenades away, and those monoliths are pretty good at blocking LOS so that the splinter cannons have nothing to fire at. And...even better! Both the wraiths and the Deceiver can simply...phase through terrain (like their own models) so a little ability to judge ranges on the table goes a long way.

Everything *has* an answer. Not everything has an *optimal* answer, nor an overpowered answer, nor the latest cheese - which is why I play Necrons! I enjoy the challenge.


Blackmoor, wait to be dismissive until the tactica is done.

He's saying that at Phase Out he'd have a relatively smaller chunk of his army left. It is still 25%, but it is also 7 out of 33 (11 out of 37 total). At that point for ANY army, the game is over.

Blackmoor, if I remember right from earlier discussion by Dash, his Warriors stay in reserve, and the C'Tan/Monoliths don't need to stay too terribly close to the Lord, so you're talking about 10 models together (that could be turboboosting most of the time until they have a target).

@blackmoor- wow your right i haven't played with crons in a while so please ignore. Although I must say don't think I usually (ever?) lost 9 wraiths in a turn. Somehow always one survived... or had a monolith blocking it (way back before deffrollas were guaranteed hitting tanks)

Everything *has* an answer. Not everything has an *optimal* answer, nor an overpowered answer, nor the latest cheese - which is why I play Necrons! I enjoy the challenge.

Units that can fly through anything
Can make fearless units take pinning tests
Ability to ignore invulnerable saves

Who needs the latest cheddar cheese when you can use 10 year old fromunda cheese lol

I am curious; do you think a decent chaos marine army would have a better chance against a wraith wing? I was just considering the ability to lash a unit of wraiths more than 6" from the others, then killing that group to deny them a WBB as a somewhat useful counter

tiekwando wrote:@blackmoor- wow your right i haven't played with crons in a while so please ignore. Although I must say don't think I usually (ever?) lost 9 wraiths in a turn. Somehow always one survived... or had a monolith blocking it (way back before deffrollas were guaranteed hitting tanks)

Deffrollas still aren't guaranteed to hit tanks. Skimmers dodge on a 3+, and....a Monolith is huge, slow, ponderous...and still a skimmer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

omerakk wrote:

Everything *has* an answer. Not everything has an *optimal* answer, nor an overpowered answer, nor the latest cheese - which is why I play Necrons! I enjoy the challenge.

Units that can fly through anything
Can make fearless units take pinning tests
Ability to ignore invulnerable saves

Who needs the latest cheddar cheese when you can use 10 year old fromunda cheese lol

I am curious; do you think a decent chaos marine army would have a better chance against a wraith wing? I was just considering the ability to lash a unit of wraiths more than 6" from the others, then killing that group to deny them a WBB as a somewhat useful counter

Interestingly....I haven't played against Chaos Marines yet. I don't like that idea very much at all. Take it back!!

On a serious note...It would depend on what else was in the Chaos list, and I'd be forced to do some checkerboarding shenanigans with my wraiths and experiment to see if I can prevent a lash with the usual "impassable friendly model" problems. If not, I would have to do some creative movement to keep them mixed in such a way that 7-10" of movement doesn't get them 6" away from any other wraith units.

Dashofpepper wrote:

tiekwando wrote:@blackmoor- wow your right i haven't played with crons in a while so please ignore. Although I must say don't think I usually (ever?) lost 9 wraiths in a turn. Somehow always one survived... or had a monolith blocking it (way back before deffrollas were guaranteed hitting tanks)

Deffrollas still aren't guaranteed to hit tanks. Skimmers dodge on a 3+, and....a Monolith is huge, slow, ponderous...and still a skimmer.

sorry meant before the ruling that they actually can hit tanks with those things, in my group they did not.

wana get a game in the friday night before the alamo GT starts? Would love to play a couple games against any of ur armies.

somerandomdude wrote:He's saying that at Phase Out he'd have a relatively smaller chunk of his army left. It is still 25%, but it is also 7 out of 33 (11 out of 37 total). At that point for ANY army, the game is over.

True, but those 11 still can make up 1000+ points.

Dashofpepper wrote:Both the wraiths and the Deceiver can simply...phase through terrain (like their own models)

Can you point me to a rule that states models (yours or the enemy) count as terrain?

Smitty0305 wrote:wana get a game in the friday night before the alamo GT starts? Would love to play a couple games against any of ur armies.

Thanks for the offer, but I still have not decided if I am going yet.

Dashofpepper wrote:

omerakk wrote:

I am curious; do you think a decent chaos marine army would have a better chance against a wraith wing? I was just considering the ability to lash a unit of wraiths more than 6" from the others, then killing that group to deny them a WBB as a somewhat useful counter

Interestingly....I haven't played against Chaos Marines yet. I don't like that idea very much at all. Take it back!!

On a serious note...It would depend on what else was in the Chaos list, and I'd be forced to do some checkerboarding shenanigans with my wraiths and experiment to see if I can prevent a lash with the usual "impassable friendly model" problems. If not, I would have to do some creative movement to keep them mixed in such a way that 7-10" of movement doesn't get them 6" away from any other wraith units.

Woah what do you mean no ones done that? That's the first thing that popped into my mind when the 6" thing was mentioned, Lash and the masque (3x pavane...not as good since its a single d6). I only didn't mention it because I assumed someone had tried it


Derrrrr, what am I saying? Lash's only use is to put enemies in clumps for your oblits, derrrrr... (nice 6" range on a res orb eh?)

Blackmoor wrote:

Smitty0305 wrote:wana get a game in the friday night before the alamo GT starts? Would love to play a couple games against any of ur armies.

Thanks for the offer, but I still have not decided if I am going yet.

In case that was addressed at me....because I am going....I'll be driving in Friday night and arriving very late, so no dice.

Blackmoor, I'm bringing Necrons. I'm sure that if we ask nicely, we can get a round one pairing arranged. I'll be doing batreps.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Blackmoor wrote:

Smitty0305 wrote:wana get a game in the friday night before the alamo GT starts? Would love to play a couple games against any of ur armies.

Thanks for the offer, but I still have not decided if I am going yet.

In case that was addressed at me....because I am going....I'll be driving in Friday night and arriving very late, so no dice.

Blackmoor, I'm bringing Necrons. I'm sure that if we ask nicely, we can get a round one pairing arranged. I'll be doing batreps.

Yea it was directed at dash, and tbh it sounds like someone is afraid of my Rainbow Spam!





jk, have a safe drive down.

Dashofpepper wrote:
Blackmoor, I'm bringing Necrons. I'm sure that if we ask nicely, we can get a round one pairing arranged. I'll be doing batreps.

Let me make some calls to my staff and see if I can make it.

I have been to the circus and seen the necron dog-and-pony show. You deep strike the monoliths, particle whip the crap out of me, and then disembark the warriors from them while using the monoliths to screen the warriors.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

omerakk wrote:

Who needs the latest cheddar cheese when you can use 10 year old fromunda cheese lol

I am curious; do you think a decent chaos marine army would have a better chance against a wraith wing? I was just considering the ability to lash a unit of wraiths more than 6" from the others, then killing that group to deny them a WBB as a somewhat useful counter

I would either try to lash the Lord (and his squad) and try to put down that rez orb (although I have very bad luck keeping them down. At the last LAGT I played against 3 Necrons in a row and I was able to kill all of lords, but none of them stayed down.) or I would lash his warriors away and clump them up for some plasma love for phase out.

Jihallah wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:Fight, fight, fight!!

*gets popcorn and beer*

Fight, fight, fight!!

from another thread lol

Excellent guide I'll pass it along to my friend, he's not a fan of metal models maybe these would be a good alternative to the metal wraiths: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440004a&prodId=prod1190056a

Nice tactica ! It actually makes me want to start a Necron army.

I really wish I could face such an army with my Orks someday, it must certainly be a challenge. All the necrons I've faced until today loaded on warriors and got sweeped out of the board fairly quickly. Wraiths however seem like a whole other kind of trouble.

Keep'em coming.

Lash lists are rare because most chaos lash players are packing 2 lashes. Wraiths are looking at being lashed twice before getting hammered by rapid firing bolters. A double lash list should have no problems with wraiths, but as an experienced chaos player I will admit the main problems we would have is a T8 C'tan along with monoliths.

The much more rare single lash bile list is much more of a threat to necrons. 1 lash + bile + lots of 10 man nilla csm squads with 2 meltas iok and pfist. Every csm is base S5 with 3 attacks, champs are S10 with 3 attacks so they can handle a c'tan, monoliths, or wraiths in cc. Not a very common army, but a very inexpensive on as zerker models used for the enhanced marines with an iok are very inexpensive models to buy.

Blackmoor wrote:

I have been to the circus and seen the necron dog-and-pony show. You deep strike the monoliths, particle whip the crap out of me, and then disembark the warriors from them while using the monoliths to screen the warriors.

Blackmoor, I have never once, in any game EVER brought Warriors in from reserve through a Monolith. I'm serious. Save the disparaging comments about the codex until I'm done. I'm an out-of-the-box thinker, and while I can't make you join me there, you could at least do me the decency of waiting until I'm done before bashing what I'm doing.

Really interestign read. If i coudl afford to buy another 'lith ans a Wraith wing i would be copying your list!

Despite that, it is still helpful to read about other tactics. i never normally take a C'Tan but after reading this i might actually start using the Deceiver more often.

whoadirty wrote:

somerandomdude wrote:He's saying that at Phase Out he'd have a relatively smaller chunk of his army left. It is still 25%, but it is also 7 out of 33 (11 out of 37 total). At that point for ANY army, the game is over.

True, but those 11 still can make up 1000+ points.

Surely, but competitive 5E doesn't care about point values in game. You'd still be talking about a few Warriors (good luck getting them to do anything worthwhile on their own) and 4 large targets that can only do so much in a turn.

You could save a bunch of time just posting a link to Fritz's 40k Necron tactics. It's all the same stuff; except for one thing he does different with his destroyer lord

Edit*
Nm Fritz. You can't view it for free anymore; you have to pay him to see it. What a bastard.

Write away Dash!

Having played a couple of games against Dash's Wraith Wing, I can tell you it's brutal and easily one of the hardest lists in the game for my Shooty Kan Wall to deal with.

Because Dash can use the monoliths as shields for his other units, and the fact that his other units are so fast (wraiths + lord), it nuetralizes alot of the effectiveness of my army:

1) I will only ever get an assault against Dash if he's made a mistake or combat was significantly unfavorable to him.
2) My lootas, which are a third of my list, are useless against his monoliths, and will rarely get to shoot at anything else.
3) The Deceiver will rip apart my Kans in CC. And if I happen to get enough Kans piled into him that I might actually hurt him, he can just Misdirect and leave CC.
4) My Shoota Boys will never get to shoot at anything effectively. Ultimately, they get assaulted and crumple.
5) My Deffkoptas can't hurt his monoliths, and if they manage to get behind him to get to his warriors, they can't kill enough of them before they die.

Dash's DE list, which is absolutely brutal, isn't as strong against my Kan Wall as his Necrons are.

I've played against this exact same list. To varying success. It WTFPWN stomps my nids. My daemons are magnatized for WFB so they have not played, and my Tau who have done done well against this list.

The first time we played was an objective mission. 1-1 draw.

second game he got cocky with the deciever. and it got lambasted in the open and his plan went down from there.

3rd game was just bad for both sides, I lost on kill points due to having so many units compared to his few.

I think that it's an excellent biuld it's very very hard to fight against. I think that Tau are a decent counter for this list. But Tau arn't very competitive.

DoP,

I've been playing a very similar CC Necrons list for the last few months. I'm glad it's now getting some attention. For kicks, I'll throw in 5 pariahs and smaller warrior squads. My default list is:

Deceiver
Lord, Orb
3x10 Warriors
5 Pariahs
3x3 Wraiths
2 Monoliths

I have a scratch built wraith lord for fielding a lord + dbody/scythe/orb with the wraiths as well, in a slightly different list.

Necrons may have trouble against IG mech... they are outranged and outgunned. 2 or 3 manticores will eat monolithes in a turn or 2, especially since the mono is so big, even if the blast scatters theres a nice chance to still hit.

Wraith wings are cool, but against heavy shooty lists, 3+ saves can only get you so far especially when you only can take 3 in a unit. Against IG, destroyer wing is probably better.

SonsofVulkan wrote:Necrons may have trouble against IG mech... they are outranged and outgunned. 2 or 3 manticores will eat monolithes in a turn or 2, especially since the mono is so big, even if the blast scatters theres a nice chance to still hit.

Wraith wings are cool, but against heavy shooty lists, 3+ saves can only get you so far especially when you only can take 3 in a unit. Against IG, destroyer wing is probably better.

3++ goes plenty far when boards have a bit of BLOS terrain. Manticores can't shoot what isn't on the table, and deep-striking on top of a parking lot is a fun way to get utility out of those STR10 large blast templates.

*edit*

I've decided that for the time being, I'm going to address specific questions in here related to Necron tactics.....but the ludicrous amount of "What if" situations being tossed around are simply out of control.

Mech IG. *laughing* Mech IG suck because a BA army can drop pod dreadnoughts and melta guns along the parking lot and kill them all from the get-go. Daemons suck because Grey Knights exist. Don't even *MAKE* me go into how much Orks suck.

Seriously?

40k shouldn't be about picking the codex with the least difficulty succeeding on the tabletop. Unfortunately, a vast chunk of people don't agree with me. I think 40k is about using the tools you have any way possible to succeed, and finding ways to circumvent or mitigate obstacles.

I've said repeatedly that Necrons are the worst codex in 40k. Its in my OP. And that this is not even what Necrons are renowned for. That's my POINT. Coming here to say, "Necrons are underpowered and overcosted" contributes nothing. I know that. I've made it clear in my OP so that no readers can *not* know that. Coming here to say "Necrons have difficulty against XYZ army" has extremely limited utility. Necrons have difficulty with almost every well-constructed army. I know that too, and have made it quite clear.

And for a couple of you, coming here to say, "Necrons can't win against XYZ..." demonstrates an acute lack of brainpower. Can't help ya.

So on that note, I'm not going to entertain any more "What if" scenarios, or "This will struggle against..." scenarios. I *have* fielded this against some of the best players in the world. GT winners, ETC team-members from multiple countries, certain famous bloggers - I've fielded this against some of the toughest armies in 40k. I've fielded this against the armies that Necrons are supposed to do *very badly* against. And I've prevailed.

I disagree with most of Dakka most of the time, and think that 90% of the people who post on Dakka contribute zilch except static garbage. My thought processes, and my tactics are usually at odds with prevailing opinion. Sometimes, my thoughts become prevailing opinion. If I agree with prevailing opinion, I keep my mouth shut because adding another "Everyone knows XYZ" is a pointless waste of bytes when there are 15 people already available to parrot it. And here we are - before I can even espouse my thoughts on this particular flavor of Necrons completely, we're at two pages full of "Heh, suckage." Stop it. This is not the thread to parrot "sage advice" about how to deal with Necrons. I ABUSE that stupidity to win my games. I haven't had a chance to explain how yet because all the tactica typing has been redirected into responding. I'm pretty sure that most/all of the posters in here can't match me on the tabletop. Some of you have tried; Vassal, GT, or otherwise. And none have prevailed. At LEAST LET ME FINISH MY TACTICA and present a complete picture of the theory and practice behind this army before you go ballistic.

I can't mouth off with challenges with Necrons like I can with my Dark Eldar. I'm confident that my DE can destroy pretty much anyone using a TAC or a tailored list. I'm *fairly* comfortable with my Necrons in a tournament environment against TAC armies, but not at all against tailored lists. Necrons have limited tools, and this guide is about making the most out of one variation of them.

Peace. Relax. Patience. Wait.

90% of the people who post on Dakka contribute zilch except static garbage.

Comments like this really don't help or contribute anything to a thread at all. There's no need for them and all they do is antagonise people.

You don't need to throw them in, so please don't.

You're more than capable of offering useful and thoughtful views, the little jibes and flames and digs really detract from the quality of your posts.

Blackmoor wrote:

First off let’s talk about what ignores WBB:
Sure everyone knows that are either double toughness or weapons that grant no armor saves (AP3+ weapons and power weapons) will neutralize WWB.

This is something that a lot of people miss, WBB is not FNP, The AP of a shot has absolutely no effect on WBB. IE. a plasma shot on a warrior does not negate wbb as s7 is not double toughness.

WBB is only negates by:

Double S weapons in shooting (So AP doesn't negate it, and rending doesn't negate it)
and
weapons that instakill or ignore armour in Assault.

Necron rulebook p13 wrote:
A necron cannot self repair is it was destroyed by a close combat weapon that allows no armour save or any weapon whose strength is twice the toughness of the necron involved

I have played necron extensively for several years. While I did not use the same list DOP does I did have tremendous success with them.

One of the things that people always laughed at me about what my lack of monoliths and my extensive use of scarabs.

I know, LOLScarabsLOL

However, especially against those who want to sit back and shoot with their mech and manitcores and basilisks and leman russ, those pesky little buggers with their disruption fields auto hit and glance on a 6.

On the charge that is a whole lot of dice, and on a typical charge, anywhere from 6-10 glancing hits on a single vehicle or half that on multiple vehicles. Which is enough to seriously screw up anyones plans or if I am lucky effectively wreck( by culmination of glancing hits results) the vehicle.

Anyhoo, I didn't want to steal any of DOP thunder, just make a point that Necrons, even the way they are in the current codex & rules, can be quite dangerous in a skilled players hand.

Gar: my Tomb Spyder wing has a core of 9 Tomb Spyders (with 9 extra scarabs), and 30 more scarabs with disruption fields in my fast attack slots.

reds8n: jibes, flames, digs....I'm not insulting anyone. I *don't* value most of the discussions on Dakka. We have 42,484 members. Is it really overzealous to believe that only about 4,000 out of that 40k+ members have anything useful to say?

Dashofpepper wrote:Gar: my Tomb Spyder wing has a core of 9 Tomb Spyders (with 9 extra scarabs), and 30 more scarabs with disruption fields in my fast attack slots.

reds8n: jibes, flames, digs....I'm not insulting anyone. I *don't* value most of the discussions on Dakka. We have 42,484 members. Is it really overzealous to believe that only about 4,000 out of that 40k+ members have anything useful to say?

Maybe so, but as Red said, it doesn't really contribute anything and would only serve to piss people off or give them reason to flame you. Whether it may or may not be true, it didn't need to be said.

----

What do you use for your HQ in the Tomb Spyder list?

Really does look interesting, looking forward to the further tactica/bat reps.
Personally, (not assuming you're bringing them to the NOVA) I found it funny that I'm bringing null zone, a redeemer, and 3 vindis to the Nova

Well, this thread (and others by Dash) beg the question:

Necrons CC
Mekanised Orks
Dark Eldar

You have written numerous postings on how you are unstoppable (or near it) with all three armies. I am not disputing nor trying to instigate with that statement. But what happens when Dash of Pepper encounters his twin playing another army? (Kind of like when Landfill's brother showed up after Landfill died in Beerfest).

What happens when Dash's necrons meet Dash's orks fielded by Dash's mental twin?

The same question goes for Dark Eldar?

@Just Dave: In the Tomb Spyder army, I have a destroyer lord with a lightning field going with a scarab unit, and a foot-lord with VoD with Immortals.

@Inquisitor: Necrons are a possibility at the Nova Open. I asked Mike about Monolith Deep striking and he said that enemy units move 1" out of the way, only turds argue the other way. =D Or something like that. It depends on when the new codex comes out precisely. If it comes out in August, then I definitely can't bring Necrons to the Nova Open because the codex won't be "tournament legal" for another month.

@Green is Best: I've actually been through that before with a "My army vs. My Army" theme. There's a thread in Batreps about it. In short, it works out like this:
My Necrons lose to my Dark Eldar.
My Orks lose to my Dark Eldar.
My Necrons are in trouble against my Orks, and it depends heavily on table terrain. If there are a few pieces of impassable/BLOS terrain, or just impassable terrain (the kind you can't ram through) they're in good shape. If there isn't, they're in bad shape.

I like the VoD lord with Immortals, but tbh the Lightning Field has never appealed to me. Then again, I imagine that changes when you're running him with Scarabs! With warscythe I assume?

Just Dave wrote:I like the VoD lord with Immortals, but tbh the Lightning Field has never appealed to me. Then again, I imagine that changes when you're running him with Scarabs! With warscythe I assume?

Yes.

I had one game where a unit of 5 terminators assaulted my turbo-boosted scarabs. He lightning clawed me, I scraped at his armour, killed two with a warscythe, thunderhammers pounded on me...I lost by 21. Lightning Field kicked in and killed the other three terminators. =D

How odd, I stumbled on the lightning field being a thing of beauty in a game I had the other day. It was a Lord on foot and warscythe and Ive got to say, it was surprisingly helpful. sure its not very strong and you need 5+ on most things, but when you take alot of wounds, they only keep stacking up.

Im also glad Im not the only one who thinks scarabs are great little buggers.



Also just for gaks and giggles. Is there anyway to use a bunch of warriors effectively? I mean effectively against non tourny players. I was thinking about running the units one behind the other. Effectively letting the unit infront take the brunt of damage, being able to WBB into the unit behind, and also being able to set up assaulters with a big ass turn of rapid fire. Would that work at all? Or am I just asking for it lol

Dashofpepper wrote:

Just Dave wrote:I like the VoD lord with Immortals, but tbh the Lightning Field has never appealed to me. Then again, I imagine that changes when you're running him with Scarabs! With warscythe I assume?

Yes.

I had one game where a unit of 5 terminators assaulted my turbo-boosted scarabs. He lightning clawed me, I scraped at his armour, killed two with a warscythe, thunderhammers pounded on me...I lost by 21. Lightning Field kicked in and killed the other three terminators. =D

Is that decent odds though? It seems like it depends on you making 5+ rolls to do damage, plus him failing 2+ saves

I definitely see where it would cripple hordes

omerakk wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:

Just Dave wrote:I like the VoD lord with Immortals, but tbh the Lightning Field has never appealed to me. Then again, I imagine that changes when you're running him with Scarabs! With warscythe I assume?

Yes.

I had one game where a unit of 5 terminators assaulted my turbo-boosted scarabs. He lightning clawed me, I scraped at his armour, killed two with a warscythe, thunderhammers pounded on me...I lost by 21. Lightning Field kicked in and killed the other three terminators. =D

Is that decent odds though? It seems like it depends on you making 5+ rolls to do damage, plus him failing 2+ saves

I definitely see where it would cripple hordes

The odds in this situation...three surviving terminators, losing by 21. 5+ to wound should cause 7 wounds to terminators. I rolled a bit better than that. =p Statistically 1.16 terminators should die. I got 3.

Any unit that has enough wounds in it can make some use of the Field. I do think that scarabs are the only unit cheap enough with enough wounds and disposable enough.

And it's not like you need a Solar Pulse or Rez Orb in that army. What else are you going to take?

I really like to follow your guides for using necrons and other armies. mostly cause all those IG people think they are gonna just wreck face and are complete ..... about it. XD anyway my question is what is going to happen when the necrons get updated as they will not be an underdog army?

Well, depending on what changes are made, they could still end up being considered an underdog force

necronsftw wrote:I really like to follow your guides for using necrons and other armies. mostly cause all those IG people think they are gonna just wreck face and are complete ..... about it. XD anyway my question is what is going to happen when the necrons get updated as they will not be an underdog army?

Well, imagine this:

10 Scarabs on the charge with 4 attacks each hit a wall of 5 chimeras. Two scarabs per chimera. If they moved 6" each...4+ to hit, 4 attacks, two 4+ rolls get through...and now all the chimeras are 10/8/8 instead of 12/10/10.

What do you mean what will I do? I'm sure it will invalidate what I do now, that's the way of it.

You are correct from the rumors it seems like they are making drastic changes. (Yes I know its a transition from 3rd to 5th but you know what i mean.) Anyway I am sure doing that will utterly destroy IG parking lots.

I'm somehow fascinated with using "non-competative" armies. Your post made me dig out my necron codex. What is the rule that scarabs use to reduce armor value? I can't find it... is my codex old?

Mentat wrote:I'm somehow fascinated with using "non-competative" armies. Your post made me dig out my necron codex. What is the rule that scarabs use to reduce armor value? I can't find it... is my codex old?

No, we're talking about the new codex.

idk... imo tau are worse than necrons pretty much all around

Mentat wrote:I'm somehow fascinated with using "non-competative" armies. Your post made me dig out my necron codex. What is the rule that scarabs use to reduce armor value? I can't find it... is my codex old?

No, besides being the best 40k player ever and hanging with the govenator... he can see into the future. you mear mortal you must be one of the Dakka 90%

But Dash, what happens if the new Necron Codex comes out and they are declared by the internet to be *gasp* top-tier competitive, as in far superior to puppies and guard?

What will you do then? You won't be the underdog anymore... Will you drop the 'crons?

TBH, considering you already wreck face with a theoretically 'bottom-tier' dex, I would hate to think of the carnage unleashed if you played the new 'top dex'...

Dashofpepper wrote:

Blackmoor wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:
@InquisitorVaron: 180 Orks. It statistically takes 72 attacks from an Ork boy who's being charged from a wraith take put one wraith down and keep it down. I play Orks, there are no surprises there.

It is ironic then that it takes 27 Slugga Boyz on the charge (on average) to kill your 9 Wraiths.

Actually, that would be 28. Moreso, it would take 28 slugga boyz attacking, not 28 slugga boyz charging - which is literally a tabletop impossibility.

1. Wraiths go first.

2. Such a situation would require nine wraiths lined up neatly in a horizontal line to be assaulted by Orks. Not only that, but it would need to be multiple Ork units - 11 Orks are going to die before they get to swing.

Blackmoor, do you really think me that tactically incompetent? With superior mobility, the ability to teleport around, and the fact that those nine wraiths come in three units of three - of which the worst case is them assaulting into three of them...which all die and consolidate into a different wraith unit...why are you presenting these kind of scenarios? I value your input on Dakka, have come to you a time or two for Eldar advice for friends of mine, had fun in our game last year at the SiS GT....I'm confused to your contributions to this thread. How many Guardsmen on the assault does it take to kill 9 wraiths? 9 Obliterators getting the charge against them will surely get the job done if there's no monoliths available to teleport them out.

Happy to have you comment, just please shy away from the ridiculous.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tiekwando wrote:

Also where are those numbers coming from? I calculated it takes 48 attacks from s4 orks to kill a wraith and keep it dead (50% chance to hit, 50% to wound, 33% unsaved, 50% wbb, 50% second wbb). So 12 orks/wraith which means 108 orks. Unless I missed something.

He's talking about killing all the wraiths at once so that the units disappear and don't get a WBB at all.

Your unit get's tied up. The other Orks bail them out. 180 Orks pump out 720 Attacks, Wraiths have no chance. You can kill 11 but there is 19 Left and 150 More Orks.

InquisitorVaron wrote:
Your unit get's tied up. The other Orks bail them out. 180 Orks pump out 720 Attacks, Wraiths have no chance. You can kill 11 but there is 19 Left and 150 More Orks.

Good luck getting 180 Orks in attacking range of 9 Wraiths. This is exactly why Dash doesn't bother answering "what if" scenarios, they just don't happen very often if at all. In order for the Wraiths to get stuck in the first place, the Ork player would either have to roll a 6 on the Waaagh! move or Dash would have to make a placement mistake. While I do not know Dash, I'd assume that someone who's as good as him knows how to abuse a jetbike-moving unit to it's fullest.



Just as a side note, does the Deciever get his invulnerable save from wargear or is it an innate ability (you probably see where this is going)?

It looks to be an 'optimised' necron list. It looks like an interesting army to play and play against. However it seems that you will be punished harshly for any mistakes.

Also as for necrons being crap - they're not *that* bad you just have to exploit them to death! They have the worst codex but it's still possible to win.

rockprime wrote:idk... imo tau are worse than necrons pretty much all around

Wrong. A decent Tau player with a decent build can butcher other armies still. Yea they are really showing their age now, but they can still pack a serious FU sandwich.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Just as a side note, does the Deciever get his invulnerable save from wargear or is it an innate ability (you probably see where this is going)?

The Deceiver has neither wargear nor weapons. So no, the Vindicare assassin can't take away his 4++. However, he can take away the Destroyer Lord's 4++, making a game against GK with a Vindicare in it a carefully considered proposition in deployment options.

Phototoxin wrote:It looks to be an 'optimised' necron list. It looks like an interesting army to play and play against. However it seems that you will be punished harshly for any mistakes.

Also as for necrons being crap - they're not *that* bad you just have to exploit them to death! They have the worst codex but it's still possible to win.

Especially if your opponent doesn't knwo how to deal with them. I regularly play against a IG friedn fo mine and murder him with my necrons everytime. Not sure why but he just seems to fall apart when he sees the. And no matter how many times i am sportmanly and explain WBB to him and hwo to beat it, he still spreads his heavy fire all aroudn the table, bizarre.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

InquisitorVaron wrote:
Your unit get's tied up. The other Orks bail them out. 180 Orks pump out 720 Attacks, Wraiths have no chance. You can kill 11 but there is 19 Left and 150 More Orks.

Good luck getting 180 Orks in attacking range of 9 Wraiths. This is exactly why Dash doesn't bother answering "what if" scenarios, they just don't happen very often if at all. In order for the Wraiths to get stuck in the first place, the Ork player would either have to roll a 6 on the Waaagh! move or Dash would have to make a placement mistake. While I do not know Dash, I'd assume that someone who's as good as him knows how to abuse a jetbike-moving unit to it's fullest.



Just as a side note, does the Deciever get his invulnerable save from wargear or is it an innate ability (you probably see where this is going)?

The deceiver gets his invulnerable from his necrodermis. Its not wargear, its just a special rule for the CTan. Take THAT you GK player


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Praxiss wrote:

Phototoxin wrote:It looks to be an 'optimised' necron list. It looks like an interesting army to play and play against. However it seems that you will be punished harshly for any mistakes.

Also as for necrons being crap - they're not *that* bad you just have to exploit them to death! They have the worst codex but it's still possible to win.

Especially if your opponent doesn't knwo how to deal with them. I regularly play against a IG friedn fo mine and murder him with my necrons everytime. Not sure why but he just seems to fall apart when he sees the. And no matter how many times i am sportmanly and explain WBB to him and hwo to beat it, he still spreads his heavy fire all aroudn the table, bizarre.

Some people are like that. My brother plays SM, and is a pretty competent player. Yet, I can kick his ass with my Orks all the time. I TRY to tell him the best way to counter my Orks, but he kindda....pussy foots instead. He will hold things back, that should be used aggressively. He will take a LR redeemer, and hang back holding whatever is inside for some reason, instead of tankshocking and them templating the hell out of a unit. He takes PF in his tacticals instead of power weapons and lets me get the charge way to much. *shrugs* I dunno, he does REALLY well against anything else. Hell he bought a vindicator for the simple fact of seriously Fing up some ORks, but I kid you not, he hasnt used it once.

Alright..part III is done. I hope. ><

I've never lost to wraith wing with my blood angels. My crappy dark angels, yes, but not my blood angels.

As good as wraiths are, they are limited to 3 per squad. If you're using a fast army like blood angels, the trick is to shoot the wraiths with bolter fire. No, you won't kill that many, but all you have to do is target 1 squad with bolters, then lead the other squads astray with hth. You don't test for wbb until the start of the necron player's turn, so if you do it right pile in moves jack the squad that got shot.

It might sound like it's bad to be in hth with wraiths, but it's not bad at all. THey strike first and have a lot of attacks, but if you divide them (cannot let 2 squads attack your 1), the wraiths actually work against the necron player, letting you hide in hth.

The key is to divide them. If you have to sacrifice units to achive this, it's usually worth doing.

This is one of those matchups that make me happy I take tactical marines.

As for phaseout...against a good necron player you'll never phase him out unless he gets unlucky.
Necrons have a lot of ways to get into and out of hth with deepstrike.

Ignore deceiver until he gets close, shoot basic shots at wraiths, leave monoliths and warriors alone until later.

I also take fear of the darkness as a power, and psyker battle squads also work great as a hard counter to many necron units.

Wraithwing is a decent army, but it has its fair share of difficulties. What it's GOOD at is being surprisingly good in hth, and most player have no idea how to deal with wraiths. Stop shooting lascannons at them!

The worst possible thing you could try to do is go for phaseout by assaulting. Necron warriors aren't the danger in this army.

Edit: I guess mech is why maybe this army type is resurging. Mech bases it's strategy around the idea of neutralizing basic shots by being in a tank. It typically doesn't have that many shots, but makes up for it with a high volume of low ap high strength shots and flamethrowers. Mech specifically counters armies built around high volume of basic shots, such as heavy bolters or scatter lasers. However, mech is the worst type of army to take again this necron build. Heavy bolters, scatter lasers, etc are the types of gun you want to shoot at wraiths. Wraiths go down to volume of fire, and 9 of them isn't hard to knock out...assuming you have an army able to do that. Razorspam doesn't exactly put out a lot of ranged basic shots.

Due to the size of Monoliths and depending on the amount of impassable terrains, it can easily get a deepstrike mishap on a wide scatter. Risk aversion is a important aspect in the game, but sometimes there is only so much you can with a 6" wide box. A good gunline player will deploy in such a way to take advantage of it. I like to run OoTF, chances are on turn 2 you might get one monolith, can easily be piece mealed by manticores and vendettas. I dont like "what ifs", but the odds and math probabilities are there.

A monolith won't mishap from terrain or from hitting models though, so all they really have to worry about is staying on the board

Wont mishap from models(infantry/vehicles), but other deepstrike mishap rules still apply.

Now yes Monolith is a skimmer, but if you read pg 78 on the bottom for impassable buildings and movement:
"that if it is possible to physicially place models on top of an impassable building, jump infantry, jet bikes and skimmers are allowed to end their move there, treating it as dangerous terrian". You cant just move terrains out of the way or move the monolith to the "side" of the terrain if it cant be place directly on top of it. Now there are many types and size and shapes of impassable terrains out there, make sure you get this clear with the TO at whatever event you go to. I sure will if I'm facing 3 deepstriking monoliths on a cityscape table.

scuddman wrote:

As good as wraiths are, they are limited to 3 per squad. If you're using a fast army like blood angels, the trick is to shoot the wraiths with bolter fire. No, you won't kill that many, but all you have to do is target 1 squad with bolters, then lead the other squads astray with hth. You don't test for wbb until the start of the necron player's turn, so if you do it right pile in moves jack the squad that got shot.

It might sound like it's bad to be in hth with wraiths, but it's not bad at all. THey strike first and have a lot of attacks, but if you divide them (cannot let 2 squads attack your 1), the wraiths actually work against the necron player, letting you hide in hth.

Could you elaborate precisely on how you do this? I can't envision any scenario that would let an assault pull a unit of wraiths away from the other two's WBB or rez orb range.

The other use is for the wraith-wing WBBs. A turn one move or turbo-boost up the field...casualties taken...and before I take WBBs

Isn't WBB done at the beginning of the turn, so before movement, so before reserves (deepstrike)? I don't have my book with me so cannot check.

I've said repeatedly that Necrons are the worst codex in 40k.

I assume by this you mean with all things being equal? To be fair your reports seem to discredit the idea, because how can the worst army be winning? Logically this would be attributed to you simply being a better player than those around you. However, your reports seem to give credit to the idea that any book can win games regularly even against some of the best players. That being the case, how can one book be more competitive than another? Again I assume you mean with all things being equal (assuming you are the best 40k player in existence, at least compared to those you've faced) in which case not everything is equal (your skill being higher than your opponents). But, if you're fighting people who win GTs and the like, you can't get much more skilled than that. So for the common man, every book should be competitive. Does that make sense?

Anyway, my point is that everyone seems to make assertions that one army is better than another, and this book can't beat mech guard and so on. But based on your experience and what you have told us, that is untrue. For all practical purposes, all army books can win against any other army book (with balanced lists). The reason it's for practical purposes is because you say that you've beaten GT winners and big names with necrons and orks, considered on the internet to be two of the least competitive books. The only one who seems capable of beating you regularly is yourself with a different army. While this shows a difference in book strength, that only matters if a player is facing you. If we commoners (I'm not being insulting, but if you're more skilled than us you are exceptional) are only playing each other, it would be similar to you playing against GT players (relative skill levels). Based on all that, the entire concept that some army books are stronger than others (your point that necrons are the worst codex) is completely irrelevant and pointless, because in practice it is meaningless.

Ali-Shan:

Some codices *are* stronger than others. The player piloting the army matters, but I've delved into codex strength comparison before, and what it comes down to is this:

A balanced army has the ability to field the tools capable of dealing with any potential threat on the table. The army's ability to win is a mixture of the player piloting the army and the environmental factors he's in (opponent, terrain, mission, deployment).

That is my belief on what makes a balanced - or powerful army. Necrons do not have that ability. They have less ability to do that than any other codex currently available...which is why I classify them the worst codex in 40k.

I win with them for two reasons:

1. I'm am extremely good at this game, and pay attention to the smallest details, manipulating every potential tactic to my benefit.
2. I haven't run into a combination of environmental factors against which Necrons can't prevail. They do exist, I'm quite aware of them. As I said in my OP, I think it hilarious that my Necrons continue winning. I've not been winning because I'm just that awesome, I've been winning because of a good dose of luck, and my manipulation of any factor I can to influence Necron survival.

All things are *not* equal, and this codex is *not* equally endowed to other codices. That's why this guide isn't called "Dashofpepper's Guide to Winning and Owning Face With Necrons" because a Necron player - even me - should never enter any sort of competitive event expecting to win - it is too easy for the wrong environmental factors to come together and heavily influence a loss. As I start bringing my Necrons to GTs here shortly, I don't expect to win. If I do, it will be completely lulz. Not a testament to my abilities, but rather of how unprepared my opponents were to deal with Necrons.

Instead, this guide is called "Dashofpepper's Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons." As in - anyone who loses to Necrons should be ashamed of themselves. Its a sad affair to have lost to them because of how gimpy they are. Winning with Necrons is less "Look how awesome I am" and more "Man, you really suck." The last time I ran into Necrons at a GT, game 2 or 3, where he had to have won his first couple of games to get there, my automatic thought was not, "Man he must be good" it was "Man, his opponents must have sucked."

Your post here is making the wrong assumptions, presuming things that I've specifically said not to be the case, and postulates the irrelevance and pointlessness of my arguments based on those things. Read the entire thread. Read what I've written. It is safe to take me at face value. For you to have gone guessing what I mean when I've gone into my thoughts in detail....well, I'm going to assume that you posted before reading.

I think some of the necrons ability to win is based on the facts that most players have either

1. never played against them before
2. don't see them more than once a year and its easy to forget special rules on an army you hardly have contact with

that ba player you mentioned falling victim to a warrior teleport get-away being a prime example

According to Dash, WH40k is almost rock paper scissors on a highly competitive level... SW owns IG, IG owns DE, and DE owns SW.

Dashofpepper wrote:

scuddman wrote:

As good as wraiths are, they are limited to 3 per squad. If you're using a fast army like blood angels, the trick is to shoot the wraiths with bolter fire. No, you won't kill that many, but all you have to do is target 1 squad with bolters, then lead the other squads astray with hth. You don't test for wbb until the start of the necron player's turn, so if you do it right pile in moves jack the squad that got shot.

It might sound like it's bad to be in hth with wraiths, but it's not bad at all. THey strike first and have a lot of attacks, but if you divide them (cannot let 2 squads attack your 1), the wraiths actually work against the necron player, letting you hide in hth.

Could you elaborate precisely on how you do this? I can't envision any scenario that would let an assault pull a unit of wraiths away from the other two's WBB or rez orb range.

It's really not uncommon. You set up to assault the Wraiths so that their pile in move forces them to move out of Res Orb Range. Granted, it takes a bit of maneuvering and if the Necron player sees it coming it's even trickier to pull off, but it can be done.

Not unlike when you assault to pull a unit off of an objective or get them away from the FNP bubble from a sanguinary priest.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SonsofVulkan wrote:According to Dash, WH40k is almost rock paper scissors on a highly competitive level... SW owns IG, IG owns DE, and DE owns SW.

Alas, Orks and Tyranids were on the top tables at Adepticon... Either one of them winning would have been great.

Ok heres a question for ya. I know youve read the rumors on what is changing on the Necrons in a few months. How do you think, from what rumors have been posted on here, the rumors will change your play style? Again, just going by what has been posted.

Im thinking warriors/Immortals will be where its at (as far as what we know so far) at least I dont have to worry about not hiding my warriors for phase outs. So far, Ive pushed my luck with them, and its only costed me once. The other night against my wifes Nids, I misjudged how far away her stealers were, and I paid for it pretty harshly.

omerakk wrote:I think some of the necrons ability to win is based on the facts that most players have either

1. never played against them before
2. don't see them more than once a year and its easy to forget special rules on an army you hardly have contact with

that ba player you mentioned falling victim to a warrior teleport get-away being a prime example

Oh? And where should the BA player have deep-struck his units instead? On the other side of the table where I had nothing? Next to the Monoliths that they couldn't hurt? By the wraiths that could move even faster than the warriors? By the Deceiver?

There *is* no better place to DoA.

Why wouldn't an immobilized Monolith on top of impassable terrain be destroyed? Having looked, it doesn't actually say so. I am remembering a 4th ed rule, like the 6" minimum on tank shock from back then?

Dashofpepper wrote:

omerakk wrote:I think some of the necrons ability to win is based on the facts that most players have either

1. never played against them before
2. don't see them more than once a year and its easy to forget special rules on an army you hardly have contact with

that ba player you mentioned falling victim to a warrior teleport get-away being a prime example

Oh? And where should the BA player have deep-struck his units instead? On the other side of the table where I had nothing? Next to the Monoliths that they couldn't hurt? By the wraiths that could move even faster than the warriors? By the Deceiver?

There *is* no better place to DoA.

You said he dropped all of them back there. Maybe drop one unit up closer by the monoliths so they could be in range of anything that ran? Or at the least, made sure SOMETHING from his army was nearby.

Aren't you the same guy that yells at "newbie" gk players that don't take weapons capable of taking down monoliths?
The fact that he had absolutely no counter to a common necron tactic is very telling

The Grog wrote:Why wouldn't an immobilized Monolith on top of impassable terrain be destroyed? Having looked, it doesn't actually say so. I am remembering a 4th ed rule, like the 6" minimum on tank shock from back then?

Monolith special rule that says it isn't wrecked from becoming immobilized trumps the general rule in the BRB.

edit -- Necron Codex, pg. 21 - "Ponderous" special rule.

omerakk wrote:You said he dropped all of them back there. Maybe drop one unit up closer by the monoliths so they could be in range of anything that ran? Or at the least, made sure SOMETHING from his army was nearby.

Aren't you the same guy that yells at "newbie" gk players that don't take weapons capable of taking down monoliths?
The fact that he had absolutely no counter to a common necron tactic is very telling

If I know no one at my FLGS uses necrons or necrons with monoliths, it is not a newbish or a required thing to do by not bring units that can dish out S10 or 9. Although most strong army lists will have S9-10 regardless, such as IG. But when you compete at a high level at a major event with like over 100 people, you better prepare for EVERYTHING.

You dont need to be new player or inexperienced to Necrons to lose to them. Experienced players who has high hopes going into a major tourney thinking they will place high, because they brought a vicious list that can deal with the top metagame(BA, IG, SW and etc) but forgot to bring S10 or not enough because they didnt think they would face 3 Mono Necrons and end up losing with their hopes utterly crushed... I bet Dash is preparing to do that to some unweary "skilled player" at the next major tournament and "shame" the gak out of them.

I agree, remember that was the shocker with the DE before their update. Every once in awhile youd hear about someone that brought a DE build to a tourny and just kicked ass with it. It wasnt because that codex was just hard core, it had ALOT of faults. It was, because no one EVER played against them, and had no real clue how to counter them. That, and people would under estimate them, because of how weak they were.

But still, I say being a competent player goes farther then how good your army actually is. Sure it helps if you take a SW power build or some flavor of the month army, but those lists still lose in the hands of players that cant think on their toes.

KingCracker wrote:I agree, remember that was the shocker with the DE before their update. Every once in awhile youd hear about someone that brought a DE build to a tourny and just kicked ass with it. It wasnt because that codex was just hard core, it had ALOT of faults. It was, because no one EVER played against them, and had no real clue how to counter them. That, and people would under estimate them, because of how weak they were.

But still, I say being a competent player goes farther then how good your army actually is. Sure it helps if you take a SW power build or some flavor of the month army, but those lists still lose in the hands of players that cant think on their toes.

In the end, a player is worth more than the army he fields.

A player has to make the critical decisions at the right moments in games where one wrong or fatal move can cost you the game. Allocating the right number of troops to capture an objective or units to wipe out a dedicated CC enemy unit you need gone is all within the realm of the player.

An army provides the tools required, but it is the player who wields those tools in the end that makes the army successful rather than the build itself.

It doesn't marginalize the prep time in making the army, but that again is tied to the ability of the player to discern what he needs before going into hostile territory.

tetrisphreak wrote:

The Grog wrote:Why wouldn't an immobilized Monolith on top of impassable terrain be destroyed? Having looked, it doesn't actually say so. I am remembering a 4th ed rule, like the 6" minimum on tank shock from back then?

Monolith special rule that says it isn't wrecked from becoming immobilized trumps the general rule in the BRB.

edit -- Necron Codex, pg. 21 - "Ponderous" special rule.

That's a 3ed holdover, from when skimmers were automatically wrecked by an immobilize unless you were Tau and took landing gear.

I'd swear that there was a rule that killed skimmers if they were immobilized over impassable terrain in 4th or 5th, but I can't find it in the 5th rulebook.

omerakk wrote:
You said he dropped all of them back there. Maybe drop one unit up closer by the monoliths so they could be in range of anything that ran? Or at the least, made sure SOMETHING from his army was nearby.

The fact that he had absolutely no counter to a common necron tactic is very telling

In this particular game, the Deceiver was up by the Monoliths. I would have rather he DoA a squad by the Monoliths. That way I could have saved my particle whips for his units instead of having to use the Monoliths to teleport warriors. And...my wraiths might have gotten there.

Couple other random answers:

@Ali-Shan: WBB is done at the beginning of the turn before movement. After making any WBB saves, if you fail any, the models are removed from play - or to save time, left on the table for the moment. At the beginning of the movement phase, you roll for reserves - this being the part where Monoliths may enter from reserves and deep-strike. During the movement phase, the Monolith may choose to teleport a unit within 18" through the portal. If doing so, any models that failed their WBB save at the start of the Necron turn and were removed from play make make an additional WBB roll.

@SonsofVulkan: None of those are autowin scenarios against each other - its that typical competitive builds amongst those three codices are heavily weighted against each other in that fashion.

@Monster Rain: You say that it is not difficult to force pile in moves to pull necrons out of Rez orb Range. What?!? If triple wraith units are surrounding a Lord, who is attached to one unit inaccessible to assault via physical wraith wall in two other units...which is the most common wraith wing configuration (all nine wraiths moving together), then it is not physically possible to pull any of the wraith units apart from each other in an assault. Wraiths get assaulted, at least one stays put (within 6" of the rez orb and another wraith unit) and potentially two more move wherever they do. The point of a wraith wing is not to start out, its to stay close together. If big blast templates are an issue, then a single screening unit and two spread out to the rear still give coherency against assault, space to deal with large blasts, and rez orb coherency.

@KingCracker: New Necrons...no idea what will change in my playstyle. I have 39 scarabs, 9 tomb spyders, 3 monoliths, a Deceiver, a Destroyer Lord, 3 foot lords, 10 immortals, 5 destroyers, 30 warriors....I'll compare what's there to what the new codex offers.

@The Grog: The immobilized Monolith is not destroyed. Nor is any other skimmer. Its just immobilized.

@SonsofVulkan again: Yes...all of the players I play against at GT are noobs. Its the *obvious* reason for the carnage I caused with the old DE, and the same I'm doing with Necrons now. Contrary to your belief, a TAC army is not one that can handle BA, IG, and SW. That's called a "tailored" list. A TAC army has an answer to EVERY army and EVERY list. My DE army doesn't expect to run into Black Templar or Necrons in a GT, but they're ready for them in case they do. I have no sympathy for someone who brings a tailored list to a GT and doesn't have the tools to fight against one of the armies...regardless of which it is...in attendance.

I didn't say it was easy, I said it's not uncommon.

I'm pretty sure I said that it can be tricky, didn't I?

Monster Rain wrote:I didn't say it was easy, I said it's not uncommon.

I'm pretty sure I said that it can be tricky, didn't I?

Not uncommon is a double negative. Saying "not uncommon" is the same as saying "common."

You literally said, "It is common for an assault on wraiths to force them to make their pile in moves end up out of range of the rez orb."

If you meant to say, "This is a rare situation that could occur if a Necron play moves poorly" then I would have agreed.

I was talking more about my experience with Warriors and Immortals. With the small unit size it would be harder to do with wraiths, though, you're right.

Against an opponent who knows how to fight Necrons, the manipulation of res orb range is very common.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:I didn't say it was easy, I said it's not uncommon.

I'm pretty sure I said that it can be tricky, didn't I?

Not uncommon is a double negative. Saying "not uncommon" is the same as saying "common."

You literally said, "It is common for an assault on wraiths to force them to make their pile in moves end up out of range of the rez orb."

If you meant to say, "This is a rare situation that could occur if a Necron play moves poorly" then I would have agreed.

Just to be nit-picky, "not uncommon" in English is generally used to add shades between "common" and "uncommon"/"rare", despite being a double negative
http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/6124/does-not-uncommon-mean-common

And now to be on topic: The tactica is awesome so far; a good friend of mine plays Necrons and this will be immensely helpful for him (or should I say, not unhelpful? ) Thanks for taking the time to write this up.

PB wrote:Just to be nit-picky, "not uncommon" in English is generally used to add shades between "common" and "uncommon"/"rare", despite being a double negative
http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/6124/does-not-uncommon-mean-common

That was the idea, but I just thought I'd let it slide.

I would also say that the more competitive lists are already tailored to beat Necrons in most cases.

Wolf Lords with thunder hammers and Manticores and all that stuff really put a beating on Monoliths.

You must realize that due to this thread you are now obligated to buy and play Necrons in their near-future incarnation.

I really like the list, but how well does it fair in the 500-1000 point range? How about multiplayer games? Or is it simply only good for a high-point duel? I ask because we have a Necron player in an upcoming escalation league that could do well with some of these ideas, but we can't figure out a 500 point list for the start of the league.

how would that triple wraith cope with Pavane/Lash then assulting them away from the rez orb shenanigans?

KingCracker wrote:I agree, remember that was the shocker with the DE before their update. Every once in awhile youd hear about someone that brought a DE build to a tourny and just kicked ass with it. It wasnt because that codex was just hard core, it had ALOT of faults. It was, because no one EVER played against them, and had no real clue how to counter them. That, and people would under estimate them, because of how weak they were.

But still, I say being a competent player goes farther then how good your army actually is. Sure it helps if you take a SW power build or some flavor of the month army, but those lists still lose in the hands of players that cant think on their toes.

The old codex did have A LOT of problem. Their troop choices were just garbage. A Wych cult(which could take wyches as troops but warriors as elites) actually was pretty viable back then. I think that is what dash did. It wasnt a very fun army but it won(well its fun to win but you had very limited choices in what you could take and not totally suck)

Overall though the best thing about the old codex when DE were no names was when you got your archon or hextrix into combat with a decked out enemy command squad. Most of the time your opponent would start raving about how he was going to crush your squishy elf and was smiling because his HQ was in contact with your HQ. Then you wipe his smile off but killing him before he could strike, kill or run down the squad and for the rest of the game he just looks like he wants to cry.

Oaka wrote:You must realize that due to this thread you are now obligated to buy and play Necrons in their near-future incarnation.

Or People can wait a few months for the new Necron codex... they will need to save up atleast $300-400 for these suppose new necron vehicles and tanks.

Reply by: penek - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/09 23:01:14

Post by: penek

DarknessEternal wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:Both the wraiths and the Deceiver can simply...phase through terrain (like their own models)

Can you point me to a rule that states models (yours or the enemy) count as terrain?

p13 of BGB ?

Reply by: KingCracker - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/10 01:40:34

Post by: KingCracker

Oaka wrote:You must realize that due to this thread you are now obligated to buy and play Necrons in their near-future incarnation.

I really like the list, but how well does it fair in the 500-1000 point range? How about multiplayer games? Or is it simply only good for a high-point duel? I ask because we have a Necron player in an upcoming escalation league that could do well with some of these ideas, but we can't figure out a 500 point list for the start of the league.

Necrons are just terrible in 500pt games. Infact, they only start being ok at 1k, but you still have to play them right. Its just WAY to easy to take them out under 1k. The only way they can be decent in under 1k is if you let the Necron player make a build with out the FOC or leave out phase out...infact in 500pts Id say do both

Reply by: penek - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/10 01:47:01

Post by: penek

500pt games normally have various restrictions (mostly for high str. weapons and vehicles) and necrons can take 2x10 warriors and lord with orb).. try to kill that in such small game.

Reply by: whembly - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/10 03:17:24

Post by: whembly

Great stuff man... makes me want to start a new Xenos army...

Hate to go off topic, but I saw this the other day (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/271328.page) and I thought "man... I'd bet that's Dashes army... or... an Army he wished he had..."

K... back on topic... can't wait for the next updates.

Reply by: scuddman - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/10 06:42:12

Post by: scuddman

It's not hard with jump marines. WHat you do, is set up yourmovement putting your assault marines in a conga line to charge. When you charge, only the model in front makes it into base to base. This forces the necron player to pile in. Then, when you take casualties, you remove your casualties carefully. What you do is you leave a marine on the model that's furthest away. You remove casualty models in btb first. On your pile in, pile into the one wraith base that you're still in hth with, forcing the other wraiths to move back into base to base.

You can make this move easier to achieve with intelligent tank shocks/shooting before you try this trick.

Necron players can try to prevent this by interweaving their models...but that has it's own set of drawbacks too. This is why I always advocate at least one template...because it makes players deploy and move their infantry different.

It may seem situational, but necrons are subject to pinning, morale tests, and psychic tests such as fear of the darkness and lash.

Also, contrary to popular believe, it is not difficult to knock down 9 meq models in one shooting phase with basic shots...assuming you have enough of them. And odds are you have a turn or two before you need to fully knock them out...giving you time to whittle down their numbers just enough so you can fully prevent will be back.

Reply by: Dashofpepper - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/10 12:36:22

Post by: Dashofpepper

scuddman wrote:

Also, contrary to popular believe, it is not difficult to knock down 9 meq models in one shooting phase with basic shots...assuming you have enough of them. And odds are you have a turn or two before you need to fully knock them out...giving you time to whittle down their numbers just enough so you can fully prevent will be back.

Yes...it *is* difficult to knock down 9 MEQ models in one shooting phase with basic shots - in all likelihood, at least three of them aren't visible due to terrain (Monolith or board terrain) unless they're coming in for a charge, and six of those wraiths are *begging* you to kill them anyway, so that they can WBB into the hiding wraith unit and only need one Monolith for dedicated teleportation instead of three.

Reply by: KingCracker - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/10 13:22:48

Post by: KingCracker

penek wrote:500pt games normally have various restrictions (mostly for high str. weapons and vehicles) and necrons can take 2x10 warriors and lord with orb).. try to kill that in such small game.

I play Orks first man..... 20 warriors and 1 Lord is cake

Reply by: GoDz BuZzSaW - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/10 18:27:57

Post by: GoDz BuZzSaW

Blackmoor wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:

Blackmoor wrote:Necrons are very good at killing newbies...everybody else, not so much.

I'd give you a list of what noteables my Necrons have beaten up on using which tournament lists, but 10 people would accuse me of bragging, 5 more would say that I only got lucky, another 2 would say that I was flat out lying, and the thread would disappear into nonsense.

Nonetheless, your statement is an overgeneralization and inaccurate.

Over generalization, of course! Incorrect? Maybe, maybe not.

The necron build you have is tough to kill. You have the lord with a rez-orb and monoliths to re-roll your will-be-back. That means that what ever you take down will not stay down for long.

If you beat 10 players with the latest, greatest lists that is fine. You certainly have the tools to beat some of the good lists.

But (and there is always a but), good players who have experience playing necrons should be able to beat them. The fact that no one sees them, and no one who has started the hobby within the last 5 years has ever played against them before certainly plays to your favor (along with 3rd edition rules that are incompatible with 5th edition).

Of those players that you have beaten I wonder if they can tell me all of the ways to neutralize WBB so you do not even get a roll?

Let's just make something perfectly clear here, Most of the people you play don't understand how to use the Necron Rule to full effect, those that do are really tough to beat!

Reply by: mulkers - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/11 12:06:34

Post by: mulkers

Dash.

Wow.

Love this guide.

My army is very similar, albeit 1 monolith and 3 warriors, are swapped for a tomb spyder, and some flayed ones/pariahs or immortals. Will be getting a 3rd mono soon.

Thanks for the 'Force kiting' tip, i had never considered it, but as far as other tactics go, i have actively employed nearly all of them, except for running the D man with the wraith wing.

I use them more as a hammer/anvil. The wraith wing is the very hard to kill anvil, and the D man is the hammer, going wide to feign a flanking manouver, and taking attention off of my refused flank.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I find most of the hypotheticals amusing, as none of them would be even close to possible on the TT, with a competant player.

also love using the monoliths and terrain to funnel enemy in to my wraith wing ala 300's hot gates

Reply by: KingCracker - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/11 19:35:34

Post by: KingCracker

Agree, still havnt played with any monoliths yet, but the thought of literally just shutting off whole parts of the table with one is really cool. They are big enough, and certainly badass enough to hang there.


Speaking of monoliths, Im planning on building a story driven campaign, and some parts of the map/board I will have to be pretty aggressive (or at least Im thinking Ill have to be) and I was thinking about plopping 1 or 2 monoliths right into the enemies ranks and just hammering them from the get go. Would that work well? Or is that a, good on paper not so much in practice, thing? The opponent will be space marines (vanilla)

Reply by: Dashofpepper - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/11 19:43:35

Post by: Dashofpepper

KingCracker wrote:Agree, still havnt played with any monoliths yet, but the thought of literally just shutting off whole parts of the table with one is really cool. They are big enough, and certainly badass enough to hang there.


Speaking of monoliths, Im planning on building a story driven campaign, and some parts of the map/board I will have to be pretty aggressive (or at least Im thinking Ill have to be) and I was thinking about plopping 1 or 2 monoliths right into the enemies ranks and just hammering them from the get go. Would that work well? Or is that a, good on paper not so much in practice, thing? The opponent will be space marines (vanilla)

That heavily depends on what's over there that can hurt your monolith. Enough STR8 AP1 (melta) can eventually roll a 6 to glance to score a wreck result. A few scattered lascannons aren't worrisome, but 12 Las/Plas razorbacks would make a Monolith going in alone afraid. Monoliths ignore shaken and stunned, so STR8 Thunderhammers, powerfists, and chainfists aren't particularly scary, especially for the first turn when you've moved cruising speed and they need 6+ to hit.

Playing aggressively is fun though - which is why I play CC Necrons. I've always enjoyed playing aggressive armies, and much prefer them to defensive armies.

Reply by: Grundz - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/11 20:48:27

Post by: Grundz

I like using the supreme mobility provided by lith portals to jump down the throat of the enemy one weakened squad at a time.

My thought was to bring in some flayed ones too for those combats that are going to last too long and the deciever is busy doing his magic.

Reply by: Dashofpepper - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/11 21:03:42

Post by: Dashofpepper

Unfortunately, flayed ones are assault troops that deep-strike without the ability to assault on the turn they deep-strike. That's quite a hindrance to their utility.

You know what would be wickedly awesome....if Flayed ones were model replacements instead of their own unit. Masquerading as enemy troops, instead of deep-striking them, when they come in from reserve, they enter an enemy unit, and you roll a 4+ for each enemy model or something - who turns out to have been a flayed one in disguise. The unit then immediately enters close combat with itself.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah - also, Part IV is now done.

Reply by: Grundz - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/11 21:23:58

Post by: Grundz

couldn't you deep strike them, then monolith teleport them, causing them to move as if they disembarked from the lith (even deep strike?

//3rd edition rules are worded weird

Reply by: Dashofpepper - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/11 23:29:51

Post by: Dashofpepper

You could.

However, there is an overriding rule that says that units that have arrived via deep-strike may not assault that turn.

Despite teleporting, they still arrived on the field via deep-strike, so couldn't assault.

Reply by: KingCracker - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/12 02:00:18

Post by: KingCracker

Dashofpepper wrote:

KingCracker wrote:Agree, still havnt played with any monoliths yet, but the thought of literally just shutting off whole parts of the table with one is really cool. They are big enough, and certainly badass enough to hang there.


Speaking of monoliths, Im planning on building a story driven campaign, and some parts of the map/board I will have to be pretty aggressive (or at least Im thinking Ill have to be) and I was thinking about plopping 1 or 2 monoliths right into the enemies ranks and just hammering them from the get go. Would that work well? Or is that a, good on paper not so much in practice, thing? The opponent will be space marines (vanilla)

That heavily depends on what's over there that can hurt your monolith. Enough STR8 AP1 (melta) can eventually roll a 6 to glance to score a wreck result. A few scattered lascannons aren't worrisome, but 12 Las/Plas razorbacks would make a Monolith going in alone afraid. Monoliths ignore shaken and stunned, so STR8 Thunderhammers, powerfists, and chainfists aren't particularly scary, especially for the first turn when you've moved cruising speed and they need 6+ to hit.

Playing aggressively is fun though - which is why I play CC Necrons. I've always enjoyed playing aggressive armies, and much prefer them to defensive armies.

I like playing my Necrons aggressively anyways, but I like shooting more then CC with them, although I DO really want my flayed ones to work well. They look so cool, but they, so far, kindda under perform for me.

As for the lith question, I know the SM player doesnt have access to a bunch of las/plas razorbacks. He has a few of course, but I think only 2 and Im almost certain one is the h.bolter variant (it was an early one he got and being a new player at the time, foolishly glued it together lol) so WYSIWYG I dont have to worry about that one. Im thinking Ill just go for it. Ill dump 2 liths in his lap (Im mainly thinking about the "hold the bridge" battle Im planning, where he has to defend a bridge that leads into the city the campaign is taking place in) specially because I dont want to have to slowly march across a big ass bridge with him hammering me from across it. So I think 2 monoliths will be a nice little surprise, not to mention my typical lord/VOD + Immortals that like leap frogging around.

Reply by: mulkers - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/12 03:46:09

Post by: mulkers

Best way to use flayed ones is with outflanking.

As with all necrons, redundancy is key for survivability.

2x4 are better than 1x8 etc.

It is a bit of a gamble to get two or more sqauds to come in on the same side as each other (2/3), but nothing as cool as 20 or 30 flayed ones coming in from the same side as your wraithwing and absolutley butcher your opponent.

Reply by: GoDz BuZzSaW - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/12 05:36:47

Post by: GoDz BuZzSaW

Now THIS is dedication to a Necron army!

Reply by: edowney - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/12 13:49:43

Post by: edowney

Dear Mr. DashOfPepper,

Thank you, thank you, thank you! This is an awesome, awesome guide! I just started playing 40k and, silly me, picked up Necrons. So it's great having someone out there explaining some serious cc tactics. All of the other Necron players I've seen spam destroyers and avoid enemy contact at all costs so it's going to be a real shocker when I actually understand all of the rules and can apply this guide.

That being said I have a question. If the wraith wing is using its magical wraith flight ability to pass through stuff to catch enemy units unaware what does the destroyer lord do? Turbo boost as best he can around stuff that the wraiths just passed through and try to make sure he's with in 6" for the orb to work? Does Wraith flight get conferred to him because he joined the unit?

Also, I was very interested in the kiting idea. So I went and read the misdirect rule for the big D. It says when you leave the assault the enemy unit gets to consolidate. So I went to my trusty mini rule book and looked up consolidation and it said that the unit could consolidate in any direction it wanted so why wouldn't they just consolidate back onto the objective? Like I said - newbie - but I would really like to have this sort of tactic in my tool belt. I'm sure it's me getting the experience and understanding the rules a lot better.

Again thanks for the guide - it's awesome and I can't wait for part V!

Eric

Reply by: mulkers - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/12 13:56:51

Post by: mulkers

Dash, regarding warriors.

I find them particularly handy coming in later in the game after the deciever/mono/wraith combo has shaken the enemy.

Two squads potentially rapid firing in to weakened opponents helps to whittle them down, as does whittling down whole units for the deciever and or wraiths to devour.

Of course this is situational, and my warriors are normally legging it for objectives, but in non objective based missions, will camp fro 24" range support fire.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

edowney wrote:Dear Mr. DashOfPepper,

Thank you, thank you, thank you! This is an awesome, awesome guide! I just started playing 40k and, silly me, picked up Necrons. So it's great having someone out there explaining some serious cc tactics. All of the other Necron players I've seen spam destroyers and avoid enemy contact at all costs so it's going to be a real shocker when I actually understand all of the rules and can apply this guide.

That being said I have a question. If the wraith wing is using its magical wraith flight ability to pass through stuff to catch enemy units unaware what does the destroyer lord do? Turbo boost as best he can around stuff that the wraiths just passed through and try to make sure he's with in 6" for the orb to work? Does Wraith flight get conferred to him because he joined the unit?

Also, I was very interested in the kiting idea. So I went and read the misdirect rule for the big D. It says when you leave the assault the enemy unit gets to consolidate. So I went to my trusty mini rule book and looked up consolidation and it said that the unit could consolidate in any direction it wanted so why wouldn't they just consolidate back onto the objective? Like I said - newbie - but I would really like to have this sort of tactic in my tool belt. I'm sure it's me getting the experience and understanding the rules a lot better.

Again thanks for the guide - it's awesome and I can't wait for part V!

Eric

The turbo boosting is under some scrutiny, assuming that the destroyer lord doesnt start or end his move in difficult terrrain, he turbo boosts over terrain.

Also being an IC, has skilled rider special rule, so rolling succesive 1's would be pretty bad luck

Reply by: Dashofpepper - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/12 14:00:56

Post by: Dashofpepper

edowney wrote:Dear Mr. DashOfPepper,

Thank you, thank you, thank you! This is an awesome, awesome guide! I just started playing 40k and, silly me, picked up Necrons. So it's great having someone out there explaining some serious cc tactics. All of the other Necron players I've seen spam destroyers and avoid enemy contact at all costs so it's going to be a real shocker when I actually understand all of the rules and can apply this guide.

That being said I have a question. If the wraith wing is using its magical wraith flight ability to pass through stuff to catch enemy units unaware what does the destroyer lord do? Turbo boost as best he can around stuff that the wraiths just passed through and try to make sure he's with in 6" for the orb to work? Does Wraith flight get conferred to him because he joined the unit?

Also, I was very interested in the kiting idea. So I went and read the misdirect rule for the big D. It says when you leave the assault the enemy unit gets to consolidate. So I went to my trusty mini rule book and looked up consolidation and it said that the unit could consolidate in any direction it wanted so why wouldn't they just consolidate back onto the objective? Like I said - newbie - but I would really like to have this sort of tactic in my tool belt. I'm sure it's me getting the experience and understanding the rules a lot better.

Again thanks for the guide - it's awesome and I can't wait for part V!

Eric

Greetings. The wraith wing can pass through impassable terrain...the destroyer lord can pass over it. He doesn't need to turbo-boost around, he can go over - like any other jetbike. He doesn't gain wraith-flight - which means that the unit he's with and himself will need to NOT turbo-boost into or out of any dangerous terrain.

In answer to your second question about the Deceiver kiting units away from objectives:

A unit can consolidate D6 in any direction. PIle in moves are an automatic 6". When the deceiver consolidates out of combat, he moves 2d6, and the unit he attacked can consolidate D6. Now...lets presume we're talking about Orks. Because if we were talking about tactical marines, or terminators or something....two assaults and they're probably all dead. 30 Orks though is another story.

Deceiver assaults a flank of 30 Ork boyz. The ENTIRE MOB moves 6" to wrap around him and get everyone as close as possible to him. He fights, they pile in closer.
During the enemy turn he consolidates 2d6 out of combat and leaves at whatever angle is needed to end up on the far side of the mob away from the objective, at most 6" away from where they currently are (in case they get a full 6" consolidate).
THe Orks consolidate D6 back towards their objective. They move in a straight line 3" back towards the objective.
Then the Deceiver assaults them again - at the corner of the unit, pulling them a full 6" away from the objective.

Smaller units will be dead before you can multi-turn kite; this is more for dealing with bigger units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mulkers wrote:Dash, regarding warriors.

I find them particularly handy coming in later in the game after the deciever/mono/wraith combo has shaken the enemy.

Two squads potentially rapid firing in to weakened opponents helps to whittle them down, as does whittling down whole units for the deciever and or wraiths to devour.

Of course this is situational, and my warriors are normally legging it for objectives, but in non objective based missions, will camp fro 24" range support fire.

Well, my section on warriors is next.

Reply by: edowney - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/12 14:11:30

Post by: edowney

Ok, I get that about jet bikes ignoring impassable terrain - so does that mean he could 'fly' right over a Manufactorum or Basilica Administratum? I could see trees, hills and defence lines.

Reply by: Dashofpepper - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/12 14:15:49

Post by: Dashofpepper

edowney wrote:Ok, I get that about jet bikes ignoring impassable terrain - so does that mean he could 'fly' right over a Manufactorum or Basilica Administratum? I could see trees, hills and defence lines.

Well....given that a Manufactorum or Basilica Administratum would be bigger than the gaming table - and that t he building itself would present more than a 6x4 gaming table in all likelihood, no he couldn't fly over it. Anything else that lets him freely move up to 24" around the table and not end up in impassable terrain after having turbo-boosted is perfectly fine though.

Reply by: Praxiss - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/12 15:21:59

Post by: Praxiss

Dashofpepper wrote:

edowney wrote:Ok, I get that about jet bikes ignoring impassable terrain - so does that mean he could 'fly' right over a Manufactorum or Basilica Administratum? I could see trees, hills and defence lines.

Well....given that a Manufactorum or Basilica Administratum would be bigger than the gaming table - and that t he building itself would present more than a 6x4 gaming table in all likelihood, no he couldn't fly over it. Anything else that lets him freely move up to 24" around the table and not end up in impassable terrain after having turbo-boosted is perfectly fine though.

I'm assuming he means the terrain pieces sold by GW that have those names, rather than the actual buildings in fluff terms.

As far as i am aware, Jetbike type units can fly over ANY intervening terrain, although if they end their movement actually on or in it they will be subject to all kinds of nastiness.

Reply by: edowney - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/12 16:58:07

Post by: edowney

Praxiss wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:

edowney wrote:Ok, I get that about jet bikes ignoring impassable terrain - so does that mean he could 'fly' right over a Manufactorum or Basilica Administratum? I could see trees, hills and defence lines.

Well....given that a Manufactorum or Basilica Administratum would be bigger than the gaming table - and that t he building itself would present more than a 6x4 gaming table in all likelihood, no he couldn't fly over it. Anything else that lets him freely move up to 24" around the table and not end up in impassable terrain after having turbo-boosted is perfectly fine though.

I'm assuming he means the terrain pieces sold by GW that have those names, rather than the actual buildings in fluff terms.

As far as i am aware, Jetbike type units can fly over ANY intervening terrain, although if they end their movement actually on or in it they will be subject to all kinds of nastiness.

Yep, that's what I was looking for (no fair picking on the newbie...). The terrain pieces seem so big in comparison to some other stuff I've seen on tables I wan't sure if they were treated differently. Obviously good to know.

@DashOfPepper No pressure to complete your guide but I would really like to take my wraith wing out for a spin at my FLGS. And don't worry about the length of the guide - the more the better!

Reply by: Dashofpepper - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/12 17:06:05

Post by: Dashofpepper

I'll have the warrior section up tonight. I've revised several other sections. Pictures and demonstrations are going to have to wait though, I have a GT this weekend and I'm leaving tomorrow at lunch so that I can get there at a reasonable time tomorrow night in preparation for Saturday and Sunday.

Reply by: edowney - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/12 19:10:58

Post by: edowney

Dashofpepper wrote:I'll have the warrior section up tonight. I've revised several other sections. Pictures and demonstrations are going to have to wait though, I have a GT this weekend and I'm leaving tomorrow at lunch so that I can get there at a reasonable time tomorrow night in preparation for Saturday and Sunday.

Of course GT's take precedence - and good luck.

I don't recall from previous posts but would you consider putting in a battle report with the guide? Even a made up one against generic space marines would be a great help possibly demonstrating the various things to watch out for and how to apply your suggestions in actual combat. I know we haven't seen the whole guide but I'm very interested in seeing how you deal with things like devastator/long fangs, land raiders, etc in a real time scenario.

Reply by: KingCracker - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/12 23:45:14

Post by: KingCracker

Dashofpepper wrote:I'll have the warrior section up tonight. I've revised several other sections. Pictures and demonstrations are going to have to wait though, I have a GT this weekend and I'm leaving tomorrow at lunch so that I can get there at a reasonable time tomorrow night in preparation for Saturday and Sunday.

Oh cool, good luck, what army you taking?

Reply by: Sabet - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/13 01:08:18

Post by: Sabet

Any tips on going toe to toe on dedicated CC armies?

Reply by: Madness! - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/13 03:26:21

Post by: Madness!

It always seems like it's the world verses Dash; but the good news is that he's winning!

Reply by: Dashofpepper - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/13 03:40:59

Post by: Dashofpepper

Madness! wrote:It always seems like it's the world verses Dash; but the good news is that he's winning!

Always outnumbered, never outgunned.

Sabet: You're perfectly capable of going toe-to-toe with dedicated CC armies. You've got volumes of STR6 attacks, Deceiver the anti-terminator/dreadnought/everything in 40k, and triple AV14 pyramids that spit death.

Reply by: BSent - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/13 03:56:05

Post by: BSent

Very good tactics.
I pride myself on being one of the better necron players. People are surprised when they see me win tournaments or win against competitive builds. Although mech armies do pose a significant problem, wraith and spyder wings are usually your only option to defeat them. I've always wanted to play a wraith wing, but I've never been financially able too, but I digress.

If people take anything from this guide, let it be how important monoliths are in building a competitive army.

You make a lot of good points IMO. A lot, if not all of these tactics can be applied to every list, not just a wraith ing. Monoliths and C'tan are very hard to kill with several armies because of the current state of the Meta. I have a special lover the for the deciever, which you can tell by my profile picture, and I thought I had learned all the tricks, but I was really impressed with your strategy of using him to pull units off of objectives. Although I can't say this is a common situation, I'm sure it could be useful if it ever came up.

Excellent advice and tactics. I look forward to seeing your tomb Spyder tactics.

Reply by: Sabet - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/13 04:15:47

Post by: Sabet

Dashofpepper wrote:

Madness! wrote:It always seems like it's the world verses Dash; but the good news is that he's winning!

Always outnumbered, never outgunned.

Sabet: You're perfectly capable of going toe-to-toe with dedicated CC armies. You've got volumes of STR6 attacks, Deceiver the anti-terminator/dreadnought/everything in 40k, and triple AV14 pyramids that spit death.

Touche. need to get me another monolith (and build 8 more wraiths, and the deciever)
Is this army pretty decent versus a combat focused Dark Eldar army, with thier generally = or + initiative?

[i]EDIT: added the plus

Reply by: Brother-Thunder - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/13 07:54:07

Post by: Brother-Thunder

I like the guide, and I must say, that list looks like enough to give my marines a headache 9 out of 10 times.

Only issue I do see is extremely fast armies like DE or BA trying to outmanouver you, with their crazy movement speed and all.

I mean, it only takes one assault phase to cause phase out with your numbers, even if it is hard to get it on you.

Other than that, I REALLY like this guide, I wil lreccomend it to my friend who plays Necrons.

Reply by: Guaiwu - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/13 07:58:48

Post by: Guaiwu

Yes, you should be shamed for using Necrons.

Reply by: ChocolateGork - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/13 11:37:31

Post by: ChocolateGork

How would your necron list go about dealing with mephiston?

It seems like other necron lists without heavy destroyers, in that you lose if you face him.

Reply by: Night Lords - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/13 17:55:42

Post by: Night Lords

Very nice write up. Well thought out with sneaky tricks. I can appreciate the "thinking for yourself" mentality and not falling into the internet sheep trap, especially with weaker books.

I'm currently trying to compose something similar with an Eldar army (units with special rules - something along the lines of harlies, spiders [or hawks] and spinners) that would be different and sneaky sneaky.

Reply by: DarknessEternal - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/13 18:51:08

Post by: DarknessEternal

ChocolateGork wrote:How would your necron list go about dealing with mephiston?

Mephiston isn't all that good at killing wraiths. So my 30 seconds of thought on the subject revolve around tying him up and teleporting away when you feel like it.

Reply by: Kevin949 - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/13 19:07:33

Post by: Kevin949

Dashofpepper wrote:You could.

However, there is an overriding rule that says that units that have arrived via deep-strike may not assault that turn.

Despite teleporting, they still arrived on the field via deep-strike, so couldn't assault.

Actually you can't do that. There's a specific no-no ruling under "chain teleporting" stating you can not teleport after deep striking, teleporting or using the veil of darkness. It even singles out flayed ones ability to deep strike as a "you can't do it" with the veil, but the teleporter on the lith is no different.

Reply by: sirwilliam7734 - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/13 23:48:33

Post by: sirwilliam7734

Have you ever had problems VS tank heavy IG? Ok so no loses vs em but just a harder time than normal.

Reply by: The Grog - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/14 01:39:00

Post by: The Grog

3 Wraith units put out 36 S6 I6 attacks on the charge. 18 will hit on most anything worth talking about, and given the rarity of T5 units 15 will wound and then they take armor saves. They go before the vast majority of opponents and at least equal the high I armies like Eldar and Dark Eldar.

In return, what's left will have to deliver 12 wounds on a T4 model to reliably kill A (as in one) portal'd orb'd Wraith. 12 wounds puts 4 on the ground, 2 stand up, 1 stands up on the portal.

Wraiths are pretty good models, but bad units only because of the small unit max size. It's hard to hurt things with just 3, and easier to put them all on the ground. That's why you generally see 9 or 0. They will have problems hurting termis and thunderwolves, but that's what the C'tan and particle whips are for.

Reply by: ChocolateGork - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/14 03:30:14

Post by: ChocolateGork

DarknessEternal wrote:

ChocolateGork wrote:How would your necron list go about dealing with mephiston?

Mephiston isn't all that good at killing wraiths. So my 30 seconds of thought on the subject revolve around tying him up and teleporting away when you feel like it.

????

He will most likely be s10 hitting on 3s and killing on 2s. He goes first and probably wipes out an entire unit with no chance of them coming back unless you got a lord next to them

Reply by: DarknessEternal - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/14 04:11:34

Post by: DarknessEternal

ChocolateGork wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

ChocolateGork wrote:How would your necron list go about dealing with mephiston?

Mephiston isn't all that good at killing wraiths. So my 30 seconds of thought on the subject revolve around tying him up and teleporting away when you feel like it.

He will most likely be s10 hitting on 3s and killing on 2s. He goes first and probably wipes out an entire unit with no chance of them coming back unless you got a lord next to them

So you mean unless all the time? 3+ save, 4+ WBB, second 4+ WBB. I wasn't lying about the him not being all that good at killing Wraiths.

Reply by: Blackmoor - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/14 04:38:19

Post by: Blackmoor

DarknessEternal wrote:

ChocolateGork wrote:How would your necron list go about dealing with mephiston?

Mephiston isn't all that good at killing wraiths. So my 30 seconds of thought on the subject revolve around tying him up and teleporting away when you feel like it.

Wraiths are a huge waste of Mephiston's talents. They have a 3++ save, so he will not be hurting them much. What he needs to do is knock down a monolith a turn, or hit the Warriors and have them break and run them down.

Again, if the Wraiths charge you, on your turn unload into then with shooting and then see if you can take them all down in assault. They lose a lot of steam when they are not charging, and if you can kill them all, or run them down, they are gone for good.

Reply by: Kevin949 - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/14 13:07:13

Post by: Kevin949

ChocolateGork wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

ChocolateGork wrote:How would your necron list go about dealing with mephiston?

Mephiston isn't all that good at killing wraiths. So my 30 seconds of thought on the subject revolve around tying him up and teleporting away when you feel like it.

????

He will most likely be s10 hitting on 3s and killing on 2s. He goes first and probably wipes out an entire unit with no chance of them coming back unless you got a lord next to them

He goes first? his initiative is 7+?

Reply by: AlmightyWalrus - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/14 16:30:44

Post by: AlmightyWalrus

Kevin949 wrote:

ChocolateGork wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

ChocolateGork wrote:How would your necron list go about dealing with mephiston?

Mephiston isn't all that good at killing wraiths. So my 30 seconds of thought on the subject revolve around tying him up and teleporting away when you feel like it.

????

He will most likely be s10 hitting on 3s and killing on 2s. He goes first and probably wipes out an entire unit with no chance of them coming back unless you got a lord next to them

He goes first? his initiative is 7+?

Yeah.

Reply by: Monster Rain - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/14 16:35:27

Post by: Monster Rain

Don't forget that Mephiston will likely be re-rolling all of his failed "to-hit" rolls, as well.

Even Wraiths aren't going to stand up to that for very long.

Reply by: Kevin949 - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/14 16:44:57

Post by: Kevin949

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:

ChocolateGork wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

ChocolateGork wrote:How would your necron list go about dealing with mephiston?

Mephiston isn't all that good at killing wraiths. So my 30 seconds of thought on the subject revolve around tying him up and teleporting away when you feel like it.

????

He will most likely be s10 hitting on 3s and killing on 2s. He goes first and probably wipes out an entire unit with no chance of them coming back unless you got a lord next to them

He goes first? his initiative is 7+?

Yeah.

Ok, that's just horrendously ridiculous.

Hey, doesn't he "remove from play" with his weapon as well (well, have the potential to)? Meaning that wraiths wouldn't get their Inv save either?

Reply by: omerakk - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/14 16:57:21

Post by: omerakk

They would still get their invulnerable save in that scenario, but they wouldn't get a WBB

I can't remember his exact wording though

Reply by: Kevin949 - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/14 17:31:35

Post by: Kevin949

omerakk wrote:They would still get their invulnerable save in that scenario, but they wouldn't get a WBB

I can't remember his exact wording though

Oh right, no I get it now...I wasn't factoring in the "on an unsaved wound" portion.

Reply by: DarknessEternal - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/14 17:57:53

Post by: DarknessEternal

Mephiston only kills about 1 Wraith per assault phase. That Wraith is then pretty likely to get back up. Do the math.

Reply by: Griever - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/14 19:18:22

Post by: Griever

This is excellent Dash, a rarity of having actual tactics in the tactics forum, which ends up being the extra special cousin of the army-list forum.

Look forward to your Tomb Sypder army, I've actually playtested it on Vassal and done quite well. It's fun to out assault blood angels

Reply by: Monster Rain - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/14 19:19:51

Post by: Monster Rain

I'd love to see the Blood Angel lists that the Tomb Spyder army is beating.

Reply by: Maeldruin - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/14 20:54:19

Post by: Maeldruin

I just wanted to say props to Dashofpepper, You really know your stuff. I took this list against my friends Orks (He used Trukks, and a battlewagon to move fast enough to potentially assault my wraiths) Still ended up winning, The Deceiver ended up killing Ghazkull Thraka(sp?). My warriors also managed to kill 2 of his Kanz in CC (lucky number of 6 on strength and damage tables)

Those wraiths are hell to take down for good, he killed all of them, and half of those twice, but at the end, I still had 9 wraiths.

Anyways, just wanted to say Kudos on this list/guide, It works pretty well. Oh and he can't claim that he didn't expect me to use this list, he's the one who linked it to me.

Reply by: Kura - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/14 22:11:22

Post by: Kura

omerakk wrote:They would still get their invulnerable save in that scenario, but they wouldn't get a WBB

I can't remember his exact wording though

In WBB it says instead of being removed from play, place them on their side. So they'd get WBB, unless I'm reading something wrong here.

Reply by: Dashofpepper - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/15 01:49:33

Post by: Dashofpepper

Kura wrote:

omerakk wrote:They would still get their invulnerable save in that scenario, but they wouldn't get a WBB

I can't remember his exact wording though

In WBB it says instead of being removed from play, place them on their side. So they'd get WBB, unless I'm reading something wrong here.

Indeed. Weaponry which says "remove from play" doesn't affect Necrons. Typically, those kind of weapons are also associated with power weapons, so it doesn't come up. However, if you take Jaws of the World Wolf for instance, it removes models from play - even without a rez orb nearby, any Necron models that are killed by it still get WBB - because it isn't double toughness nor a close combat power weapons - which are the only two ways to negate WBB. Putting a rez orb within 6" of a unit though negates even that ability to bypass WBB.

I've only had to play against Mephiston once with my Necrons. He hung back for a couple of turns, so that I couldn't pick him out with my wraiths, and then decided to make a play for my Monoliths. The one he was after jumped up on top of impassable terrain, and I assaulted him with my entire wraith wing. I dropped two wounds on him, lost two wraiths...teleported them out and they got back up, then charged back in and finished him off as I picked up assault from DoA marines; which killed a full unit (I haven't even gotten into how to finangle wraiths around to direct assaults). I teleported out of that too, then particle whipped his assault marines. The scariest units in his army were two triple lascannon predators that were trying to take down my monoliths.

Anyway, Day One of the Alamo GT over; I didn't get to bring my Wraith Wing because the Monoliths and warriors aren't done, but it turns out that one of my co-workers is an artist and has an airbrush, so I gave him my Deceiver to see what he could do over the weekend. If he's sweet at it, I'll give him my Monoliths.

Reply by: Defiler37 - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/15 04:16:21

Post by: Defiler37

The monolith can contest objectives?

Reply by: Kevin949 - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/15 04:36:36

Post by: Kevin949

Any unit can, only troops can capture them though (thus count as scoring). All contesting does is not allow your opponent the point for the objective.

Reply by: Defiler37 - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/15 16:40:35

Post by: Defiler37

Ah ok,food for thought, thanks

Reply by: Griever - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/16 02:53:59

Post by: Griever

Monster Rain wrote:I'd love to see the Blood Angel lists that the Tomb Spyder army is beating.

The list was basically:

Nightbringer
Destroyer Lord w/Res Orb

10 Warriors
10 Warriors

4 Destroyers
4 Destroyers
4 Destroyers

3 Tomb Spyders
3 Tomb Spyders
3 Tomb Spyders

He was playing DoA angels. Dante and a Sanguinary Guard pack who met Nightbringer. The rest of the army was made up of 10 Man Assault squads with a couple Sang Priests and a Libby. Was also a small Vanguard squad with packs, 5 men, just 1 power sword. It's an army that packs a bunch of melta (not that useful against me), has good mobility (I outshot him so he just used it to run at my slow assault elements) and relies upon the FnP + Power armor to be resilient, which my list laughs at.

Reply by: zemanjaski - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/16 12:31:52

Post by: zemanjaski

Really wondderful read Dashofpepper, so good in fact I reistered just to commend you

Reply by: Chaos Lord Gir - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/16 13:13:31

Post by: Chaos Lord Gir

Dashofpepper wrote:

InquisitorVaron wrote:Double toughness weapons negate WBB meaning as aforesaid Necrons will have a tough time winning in the current missile spam type lists.

Unless a Rez Orb is present. And it is. 3++ Invulnerable save, 4+ WBB, second 4+ WBB. I'm not aware of any weapon in the game that can stop it.

Boon of Mutation/Gift of chaos.

Just sayin'.

Reply by: DarknessEternal - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/16 15:33:21

Post by: DarknessEternal

Chaos Lord Gir wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:

InquisitorVaron wrote:Double toughness weapons negate WBB meaning as aforesaid Necrons will have a tough time winning in the current missile spam type lists.

Unless a Rez Orb is present. And it is. 3++ Invulnerable save, 4+ WBB, second 4+ WBB. I'm not aware of any weapon in the game that can stop it.

Boon of Mutation/Gift of chaos.

Neither do wounds nor kill the model, so of course WBB won't work. It'd be like saying Move Through Cover doesn't stop WBB.

Reply by: Monster Rain - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/16 15:36:56

Post by: Monster Rain

The term used was "stop it".

Not "kill" it. So no, it's actually nothing like that.

Reply by: Chaos Lord Gir - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/16 16:23:23

Post by: Chaos Lord Gir

DarknessEternal wrote:
Neither do wounds nor kill the model, so of course WBB won't work. It'd be like saying Move Through Cover doesn't stop WBB.

Yes, but they do pretty much remove the Necron in question no WBB allowed, give me a unit to then engage the unit and stop them shooting and other general nastiness, which they can do nothing to prevent due to lack of psyker defence, or in my Daemons case I just need to roll to hit (normally 3/2+) and then pass a 4+/5+ toughness check.

Hell, alot of the bigger stuff can cast it multiple times, IN close combat and a spawn is more than capable of tying up most necron units.

Reply by: Griever - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/16 22:17:40

Post by: Griever

DashOfPepper wrote:Particle Whips are STR9 AP3 Ordinance Large blasts firing at BS4 that cause an AP1 hit to the model under the hole; which is their saving grace against vehicles with high armour values

Where do you get this? My necron codex has the following profile for the particle whip:

24" Str 9 Ap 3 Ordnance 1/Blast

I don't see anything that says it's a Large Blast.

Reply by: Monster Rain - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/16 22:20:35

Post by: Monster Rain

Ordnance Blasts are large blasts unless specified otherwise.

Reply by: Griever - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/16 22:21:38

Post by: Griever

Monster Rain wrote:Ordnance Blasts are large blasts unless specified otherwise.

Thank you.

Reply by: Monster Rain - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/16 22:22:33

Post by: Monster Rain

You're welcome. I don't have my Rule Book on me, but it's in there.

Perhaps some saint reading this could provide a page reference at some point.

Reply by: Sabet - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/17 01:15:46

Post by: Sabet

Pg. 58: Ordnance weapons
Firing an massive ordnance weapon requires the attention of all the gunners of the vehicle, so no other weapons may be fired that turn (not even defensive weapons!). In return, they are better at penetrating amour (see page 60). Unless their profile specifies otherwise, all ordnance blast weapons use the large blast marker.

Direct quote from the BRB.

Reply by: edowney - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/17 18:28:53

Post by: edowney

ok, so I'm jumping ahead but my game nights at my FLGS are Wednesdays so time's a ticking here...for deployment I'm guessing from what I've seen mentioned in the guide thus far that the two units of warriors and three liths are put in reserve? I'm thinking the liths deep strike onto objectives in those types of games and mid field spread out evenly along the center of the table in the annihilation game. If it's an objective game you're porting the warriors through the liths that have hopefully deep struck on or near objectives and walk them on if it's not an objective game. I'm sure there's much much more but you know I've only played four games so far so that's the most I can extrapolate.

Kinda like guessing what will be in the new codex coming out soon....

Definitely don't know what to do with the warriors but run away.

Reply by: The Grog - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/17 19:46:45

Post by: The Grog

Remember, the Necron codex was written when the large blast template was *named* the ordinance template.

Reply by: Sabet - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/17 23:21:36

Post by: Sabet

The Grog wrote:Remember, the Necron codex was written when the large blast template was *named* the ordinance template.

It was also written when their was a separate table for glancing, no sweeping advance, no instant death weapons except for double strength, and a few more i can't remember at the moment.

Reply by: Exergy - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/18 00:23:44

Post by: Exergy

Sabet wrote:

The Grog wrote:Remember, the Necron codex was written when the large blast template was *named* the ordinance template.

It was also written when their was a separate table for glancing, no sweeping advance, no instant death weapons except for double strength, and a few more i can't remember at the moment.

skimmers were destroyed when they were immobilized

Reply by: Sabet - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/18 00:48:57

Post by: Sabet

Exergy wrote: skimmers were destroyed when they were immobilized

they still are, but only if they move faster than 12" i think

Reply by: Maeldruin - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/18 02:06:33

Post by: Maeldruin

Sabet wrote:

Exergy wrote: skimmers were destroyed when they were immobilized

they still are, but only if they move faster than 12" i think

Unless they have the Ponderous special rule. but I believe you are correct, they would normally be destroyed on an immobilized if they moved 12+ inches in their turn. Or it's more than 6, but I don't my BRB handy.

Reply by: Dashofpepper - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/18 03:11:24

Post by: Dashofpepper

Okie-dokie! Part V for the warriors is done and posted.

Reply by: Sabet - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/18 03:16:27

Post by: Sabet

WHERE?!?!? I can't find either 4 or 5 (tomb spyders and warriors)

Reply by: Dashofpepper - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/18 04:24:45

Post by: Dashofpepper

Sabet wrote:WHERE?!?!? I can't find either 4 or 5 (tomb spyders and warriors)

Uh...all updates are taking place in the OP. Part IV was the Wraith Wing and the Destroyer Lord, and Part V is the section on the warriors.

The last section that I still need to write will detail deployment scenarios, movement, deep-striking....how all these pieces come together to make an army.

Reply by: ph34r - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/18 04:32:12

Post by: ph34r

Sabet wrote:WHERE?!?!? I can't find either 4 or 5 (tomb spyders and warriors)

The first step to becoming a master necron strategist is being able to read the guide you are supposed to be following.

Reply by: tetrisphreak - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/18 04:37:17

Post by: tetrisphreak

So i've only been playing necrons for a couple weeks so far, and my record is 0-1-4, with the draw being a capture and control game vs tau. I chose necrons for a couple of reasons, one of which being their look & feel and the other being that there's a new codex on the horizon, so i felt obligated to get my lumps in with this book so i wouldn't feel guilty if and when the new codex is actually competitive.

Here's my problem: I've read this tactica as well as a few others and I know my strengths/weaknesses from dominating necrons with my tyranids in the past. All that being said, I just can't seem to get my army to function even with all this advice. Monolith wall? Punctured by lascannons and lucky glances from krak missiles (immoblizing my mono sucks when my nightbringer is trying to walk up field behind it). Destroyerwing? Well i only have 6 regular destroyers and 2 heavy destroyers, but yet my opponents have no trouble focusing fire on the squads until there aren't any nearby units thereby ignoring my WBB. I made the mistake tonight of reserving my warriors through my mono portals, thus losing 2 rounds of particle whipping on some enemy transports, got lashed into a template formation and then a doom siren laid down some AP3 death. I got phased out by turn 4.

Obviously I'm playing wrong but this is NOT an easy book to win with. Is there a "necrons for dummies" thread anywhere? Or do i need to spend $180 on 9 more destroyer models and $175 on 7 more heavy destroyers or what?

Reply by: Dashofpepper - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/18 04:49:10

Post by: Dashofpepper

tetrisphreak wrote:So i've only been playing necrons for a couple weeks so far, and my record is 0-1-4, with the draw being a capture and control game vs tau. I chose necrons for a couple of reasons, one of which being their look & feel and the other being that there's a new codex on the horizon, so i felt obligated to get my lumps in with this book so i wouldn't feel guilty if and when the new codex is actually competitive.

Here's my problem: I've read this tactica as well as a few others and I know my strengths/weaknesses from dominating necrons with my tyranids in the past. All that being said, I just can't seem to get my army to function even with all this advice. Monolith wall? Punctured by lascannons and lucky glances from krak missiles (immoblizing my mono sucks when my nightbringer is trying to walk up field behind it). Destroyerwing? Well i only have 6 regular destroyers and 2 heavy destroyers, but yet my opponents have no trouble focusing fire on the squads until there aren't any nearby units thereby ignoring my WBB. I made the mistake tonight of reserving my warriors through my mono portals, thus losing 2 rounds of particle whipping on some enemy transports, got lashed into a template formation and then a doom siren laid down some AP3 death. I got phased out by turn 4.

Obviously I'm playing wrong but this is NOT an easy book to win with. Is there a "necrons for dummies" thread anywhere? Or do i need to spend $180 on 9 more destroyer models and $175 on 7 more heavy destroyers or what?

I think you're mixing up two concepts here.

1. Necrons are an incredibly easy army to play. Most people think that they are quite boring because you have to struggle and innovate to come up with any kind of original ideas for them.
2. Necrons are an incredibly uncompetitive army. As I've pointed out in this thread - this is not an army for beginners to pick up. Necrons in their current form - bringing them to a GT is like playing a video game on Ultrahardcore where the enemies are insane, and when you die in game, the game ends. No save, no reload, the end.

Reply by: Sabet - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/18 04:51:21

Post by: Sabet

Dashofpepper wrote:

Sabet wrote:WHERE?!?!? I can't find either 4 or 5 (tomb spyders and warriors)

Uh...all updates are taking place in the OP. Part IV was the Wraith Wing and the Destroyer Lord, and Part V is the section on the warriors.

The last section that I still need to write will detail deployment scenarios, movement, deep-striking....how all these pieces come together to make an army.

ph34r wrote:The first step to becoming a master necron strategist is being able to read the guide you are supposed to be following.

Shut up all of you. I've been skipping to the final page in the thread, not looking at the same post again and again. : (


Automatically Appended Next Post:
i picked them up as a beginner, i liked there story and they were very forgiving.
only lost 1 game to chaos player (my second game ever).
haven't lost a game until my friend picked up the new DE.

Reply by: King Pariah - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/18 05:37:28

Post by: King Pariah

tetrisphreak wrote:So i've only been playing necrons for a couple weeks so far, and my record is 0-1-4, with the draw being a capture and control game vs tau. I chose necrons for a couple of reasons, one of which being their look & feel and the other being that there's a new codex on the horizon, so i felt obligated to get my lumps in with this book so i wouldn't feel guilty if and when the new codex is actually competitive.

Here's my problem: I've read this tactica as well as a few others and I know my strengths/weaknesses from dominating necrons with my tyranids in the past. All that being said, I just can't seem to get my army to function even with all this advice. Monolith wall? Punctured by lascannons and lucky glances from krak missiles (immoblizing my mono sucks when my nightbringer is trying to walk up field behind it). Destroyerwing? Well i only have 6 regular destroyers and 2 heavy destroyers, but yet my opponents have no trouble focusing fire on the squads until there aren't any nearby units thereby ignoring my WBB. I made the mistake tonight of reserving my warriors through my mono portals, thus losing 2 rounds of particle whipping on some enemy transports, got lashed into a template formation and then a doom siren laid down some AP3 death. I got phased out by turn 4.

Obviously I'm playing wrong but this is NOT an easy book to win with. Is there a "necrons for dummies" thread anywhere? Or do i need to spend $180 on 9 more destroyer models and $175 on 7 more heavy destroyers or what?

Only five games so far and you pulled a tie? better than me. To me, it seems like you just have to find a strategy and an army type (destroyer wing, wraith wing, etc.) that fits you. Personally, I found that destroyer wings for 2500+ pt battles and heavy destroyer & scarab wing for 2000-2500 pt battles work more or less for me (except against nids, nids consistently destroy me) after about a month of experimenting with army list and proxying thanks to the graciousness of roughly 10 lenient and patient players who let me proxy without throwing a fit.

Reply by: Onnotangu - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/18 06:00:24

Post by: Onnotangu

I have just completed my second game with necrons. and learned that masters of the fleet and reserve based games are not my friends. even tried the necron codex tomb raid mission.
I keep getting picked apart piecemeal.


sadly as there is no more necrons for purchase in my area I can not adapt to dash's informative guide. I do like the details though and am trying to adapt them to the army I do have.

Reply by: tetrisphreak - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/18 11:37:36

Post by: tetrisphreak

@dash, kingpariah - I understand completely where you are both coming from. I have played 40K for a couple years and while i'm no master on the tournament scene I tend to place well at our local tournaments (5th or higher, usually) with my tyranid army. That being said, Necrons are a totally different breed and indeed playing the game one 'superhardmode' it seems.

I'll continue to stick with it and 'take my medicine' and hopefully the update forthcoming will be good to all us ZOMBIE ROBOTS.

Reply by: Dashofpepper - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/19 03:39:50

Post by: Dashofpepper

Sabet wrote:


Shut up all of you. I've been skipping to the final page in the thread, not looking at the same post again and again. : (

Reply by: Sabet - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/26 08:48:53

Post by: Sabet

King Pariah wrote:except against nids, nids consistently destroy me

Tip: take out their synapse creatures as a priority. without them they are hopeless. fought against a newbie who forgot to bring them. good at playing his army, but opponents had never realised he didn't have synapse. it had been my first game against nids so was curios about the rules. taught him a thing or two. he killed one warrior.

Reply by: King Pariah - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/26 14:50:06

Post by: King Pariah

Sabet wrote:

King Pariah wrote:except against nids, nids consistently destroy me

Tip: take out their synapse creatures as a priority. without them they are hopeless. fought against a newbie who forgot to bring them. good at playing his army, but opponents had never realised he didn't have synapse. it had been my first game against nids so was curios about the rules. taught him a thing or two. he killed one warrior.

Why didn't I think of that before? Thanks!

Reply by: Tomb King - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/26 16:43:08

Post by: Tomb King

I only played necrons once in a tournament and I had 3 wins. 2 were minor victories though. One against DE, one against IG. I managed 2nd at the tournament. Necrons are not as bad as people make them out to be.

I ran

Destroyer lord with rez orb and ability to heal all wounds
Necron lord veil and rez orb

12 necrons
10 necrons
10 necrons

8 Swarms to escort the destroyer
4 destroyers
4 destroyers

2 monoliths
1 Tomb spider (to help the army refuse to die)

I lost very few models and the tomb spyder which sucks btw was still viable as it got tank shocked and wrecked some vehicles lmao.

Reply by: Sabet - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/05/27 07:38:42

Post by: Sabet

King Pariah wrote:

Sabet wrote:

King Pariah wrote:except against nids, nids consistently destroy me

Tip: take out their synapse creatures as a priority. without them they are hopeless. fought against a newbie who forgot to bring them. good at playing his army, but opponents had never realised he didn't have synapse. it had been my first game against nids so was curios about the rules. taught him a thing or two. he killed one warrior.

Why didn't I think of that before? Thanks!

Your welcome

Reply by: necron99 - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/06/03 17:10:14

Post by: necron99

@Dash

Absolutely love the guide. I've been collecting Necrons now for a little over a year and just got the nerve to actually try playing 40k (newbie). I have a new FLGS a mile from my house and right now it's just me and another guy who show up to play at the moment. Anyway, for my fifth game ever I applied your guide to the best of my abilities and shockingly might have won. Why'd I lose? Partly because I made some newbie misinterpretation of the Dawn of War deployment. I walked my liths on to the board and in retrospect I think I should have reserved them and deep struck them. No real melee occurred until turn 3 and that was because I initiated it - which I know is what you want to do but the situation wasn't really what I would have preferred but I wanted to see how the wraiths and the Deceiver would work. I was ahead by one kill point at that time (mission: Annihilation). My opponent was a little skiddish with the liths marching towards him and the wraiths floating about. He took pot shots at my warriors throughout the entire game with snipers and only managed to kill one out right, wrecked one lith and destroyed the other - but all for a good cause.

I could really use your last installment to help me with my opening moves...please, please, please...



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, while I'm thinking about it: how do you handle armies with long range shooters? The guy I was playing with had a landraider that just sat in the backfield and took pot shots at my liths with his twin linked sponson lascannons all game long (that was the downfall of 2 out of 3 liths). I had another guy in a game with a devastator squad sitting along the back table edge shooting at anything that moved (but not the liths) making my destroyers lives hell (destroyer wing in that game). Should the wraiths leave the safety and comfort of the lith wall for an extended jaunt across the board? Dunno....

Reply by: Kevin949 - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/06/03 17:43:04

Post by: Kevin949

Nothing more will come from dashofpepper here on dakka.

Reply by: necron99 - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/06/03 17:46:37

Post by: necron99

huh? Has he left the building - so to speak...

Reply by: Kevin949 - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/06/03 17:56:54

Post by: Kevin949

Yes, so to speak. I believe it is detailed in this thread with a link. In the past page or two.

*Edit*
No, it's not here. Must be a thread somewhere else then.

Reply by: Praxiss - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/06/04 07:34:34

Post by: Praxiss

i think he was banned for something. I'm guessing rule breaking of some description.

Reply by: Sir Pseudonymous - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/06/04 15:49:26

Post by: Sir Pseudonymous

It's mentioned at the end of his DE tactica thread. He's now posting on Hulksmash's blog.

Reply by: wyomingfox - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/06/06 15:23:23

Post by: wyomingfox

Praxiss wrote:i think he was banned for something. I'm guessing rule breaking of some description.

Suspended was a word I recall a Mod using. He may come back.

Reply by: Kurce - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/06/06 21:22:00

Post by: Kurce

@Dash

"I have never lost. All wins with only two draws"

Statements like this are completely unbelievable. There is a huge amount of random chance and human error involved in tabletop gaming. I don't see how you have never lost, especially with Necrons of all armies. Just random chance alone should be enough for you to lose games. To clarify what I mean by human error: What I mean by this is that when someone measures 6" for movement, they really don't move precisely 6". Little things like this snowball until significant parameters have now come into play during the course of the game, whether by accident (most likely) or on purpose (cheating).

In all, I like reading about tournament lists and tactics. But, something I realized a little while ago about WH40K is that this is a hobby game and the rules are beyond horrendous and it will never be a tournament-viable game no matter how badly the competitive scene wants it to be. There is so much grey area and so many contradictions in the rules that it is quite simply unacceptable to be a true tournament-worthy game.

As for your "Wraith-Wing" list, it looks like a lot of fun. One problem I have when judging other people's lists is that I feel that my FLGS terrain is very lacking and it not indicative of what a "normal" board should look like and you state that terrain is very important for your list to function properly. I can only judge the list/tactics from past experience but it would appear that this list is pretty gimicky and really doesn't offer much. Just my opinion, of course.

EDIT:

Drat. I didn't see that Dash got suspended or whatever. Oh well.

Reply by: wyomingfox - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/06/06 21:53:00

Post by: wyomingfox

Kurce, we don't know how many games Dash has played. It probably isn't a massive ammount as Dash has stated that he only recently started playing Necrons. If he had played 10 games, I would find it perfectly believable that he hasn't lost yet. If he had played a 1000 games, then I could understand some skeptism.

Reply by: Kurce - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/06/06 22:07:28

Post by: Kurce

If he had played 10 games, I would find it perfectly believable that he hasn't lost yet. If he had played a 1000 games, then I could understand some skeptism.

10 games is pretty borderline for me on being able to say you are undefeated. 20? Not a chance. Much less 100 or a 1000 games. Does Dash have his own personal blog that he posts in? I would like to read some of his tournament reports.

Reply by: tiekwando - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/06/06 23:58:00

Post by: tiekwando

read hulksmash's blog. And you can go 20 games undefeated, it just depends on the people playing. So far he has documented at least 8-12 wins with the crons and no losses.

Reply by: Kevin949 - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/06/07 03:37:30

Post by: Kevin949

My Win/Loss rate against my buddy's black templar army is around 1 for 1 not documenting draws or conceded defeats (on both sides). I've also found that playing against other marine armies is much easier than BT (Vanilla and chaos so far). I've played against one eldar list, some tau and nids and beat them all as well. I find it perfectly believable that he has won 8-12 games with no losses so far.

Pit him up against necron army though and see how he fairs.

Reply by: jariksolo - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/06/07 05:27:23

Post by: jariksolo

You guys realize that Dash has 30-40 battle reports in his signature? Major Tournaments? And since he can't post here anymore, he's been writing battle reports on the blog he and Hulksmash share now. http://hulksmash-homeplace.blogspot.com/

Reply by: Monster Rain - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/06/07 05:49:27

Post by: Monster Rain

jariksolo wrote: You guys realize that Dash has 30-40 battle reports in his signature? Major Tournaments?

None of those GTs are with Necrons though, are they? I'm pretty sure that was the point of contention here.

Reply by: omerakk - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/06/07 06:01:37

Post by: omerakk

Monster Rain wrote:

jariksolo wrote: You guys realize that Dash has 30-40 battle reports in his signature? Major Tournaments?

None of those GTs are with Necrons though, are they? I'm pretty sure that was the point of contention here.

Yep, not a single Necron report, which was totally the point

Reply by: ChocolateGork - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/06/07 07:59:57

Post by: ChocolateGork

omerakk wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

jariksolo wrote: You guys realize that Dash has 30-40 battle reports in his signature? Major Tournaments?

None of those GTs are with Necrons though, are they? I'm pretty sure that was the point of contention here.

Yep, not a single Necron report, which was totally the point

He has done about 4 on hulk-smashes blog actually.

Reply by: omerakk - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/06/07 08:27:11

Post by: omerakk

ChocolateGork wrote:

omerakk wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

jariksolo wrote: You guys realize that Dash has 30-40 battle reports in his signature? Major Tournaments?

None of those GTs are with Necrons though, are they? I'm pretty sure that was the point of contention here.

Yep, not a single Necron report, which was totally the point

He has done about 4 on hulk-smashes blog actually.

And none in his signature on here, as has been pointed out

Reply by: Sabet - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/06/07 10:33:26

Post by: Sabet

I've won 20 games in a row. after my second game (when i was still new both to necrons and the game), i lost, then never lost for a year and a half, until my friend picked up the new Dark Eldar. I have no idea how many games i played during that time however, but probably averaged one every two weeks.

Reply by: Praxiss - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/06/07 14:39:25

Post by: Praxiss

Going undefeated depends a lot on your opponent.

Of the friends i play with, one of them i have never lost to in the 5 years we have been playing (he plays IG and SM).

Another one i have only managed to beat once or twice (he plays SW, BA and Eldar).

Reply by: Erudog - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/06/08 04:30:07

Post by: Erudog

omerakk wrote:And none in his signature on here, as been pointed out

Well, that might be because he can't post his Battle Reports on Dakka. They're on Hulksmash's blog - and Hulksmash has been linking his Necron battle reports in the Battle Report section.

Reply by: omerakk - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/06/08 04:51:50

Post by: omerakk

Erudog wrote:

omerakk wrote:And none in his signature on here, as been pointed out

Well, that might be because he can't post his Battle Reports on Dakka. They're on Hulksmash's blog - and Hulksmash has been linking his Necron battle reports in the Battle Report section.

Riiiight and prior to that, he had been on Dakka for several years, so Monster Rain still has a valid point

Reply by: Monster Rain - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/06/08 04:53:57

Post by: Monster Rain

Yeah, all I'm saying is that the batreps in his Sig aren't with his Necrons.

I don't see why that's so controversial.

Reply by: nobody - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/06/08 04:56:40

Post by: nobody

Monster Rain wrote:Yeah, all I'm saying is that the batreps in his Sig aren't with his Necrons.

I don't see why that's so controversial.

It's a Dash thread, I think at this point controversial is expected

Reply by: Grimgob - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/06/08 18:00:00

Post by: Grimgob

Dash can post here. He chooses not to as he can't police his own threads when people disagree with him.

Reply by: WarOne - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/06/08 18:01:15

Post by: WarOne

Grimgob wrote:Dash can post here. He chooses not to as he can't police his own threads when people disagree with him.

Actually Dash cannot post right now or for the forseeable future.

Reply by: Just Dave - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/06/08 18:12:38

Post by: Just Dave

Yep, AFAIK he was temporarily banned then increased it to a perma-ban. As others have said; he's on Hulksmash's blog. Also, banned members are not supposed to be discussed or the incident surrounding their ban IIRC.

Reply by: Vaktathi - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/06/08 18:14:03

Post by: Vaktathi

Grimgob wrote:Dash can post here. He chooses not to as he can't police his own threads when people disagree with him.

Which seems like a rather lame reason to not come back if it's not actually a perma-ban. "oh noes, I can't delete other peoples statements that don't please me or stroke my ego!"

Reply by: Janthkin - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/06/08 18:17:08

Post by: Janthkin

Just Dave wrote:Yep, AFAIK he was temporarily banned then increased it to a perma-ban. As others have said; he's on Hulksmash's blog. Also, banned members are not supposed to be discussed or the incident surrounding their ban IIRC.

<details of user discipline are not disclosed; discontinue speculation>

Reply by: Skarboy - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/06/08 18:38:10

Post by: Skarboy

Going 20-0 is hardly unbelievable, even with Necrons. Good players (and if Dash was to be taken at his word, and at least supported by some reliable third parties and lots of battle reports, he was a good player) can mitigate a LOT of the luck of 40K through strong tactics and execution. The average skill level of a 40K player is generally low, from what I've seen. Necrons also have a little edge in that no one sees them very often, so he can take people by surprise. My point is that a statement like that, while completely arrogant and boastful, should not be entirely ignored.

Reply by: Kurce - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/06/08 22:04:56

Post by: Kurce

I find it unbelievable, but I have only been playing for about a year and a half now. I am still pretty bad at the game but I would think that chance/variance alone would make it very tough to win that many games in a row.

<text redacted - off-topic hearsay stories do not belong in this thread. --Janthkin>

And I still think this Necrons list is bad. He has so few models. And I don't understand his argument that fewer models makes it harder to phase out. *shrug*

Reply by: nobody - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/06/08 22:22:26

Post by: nobody

Kurce wrote:I find it unbelievable, but I have only been playing for about a year and a half now. I am still pretty bad at the game but I would think that chance/variance alone would make it very tough to win that many games in a row.

<text redacted - off-topic hearsay stories do not belong in this thread. --Janthkin>

And I still think this Necrons list is bad. He has so few models. And I don't understand his argument that fewer models makes it harder to phase out. *shrug*

<text redacted - off-topic hearsay stories do not belong in this thread. --Janthkin>

Reply by: omerakk - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/06/08 23:02:03

Post by: omerakk

omg can we NOT start all this crap again

Reply by: Kevin949 - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/06/08 23:25:58

Post by: Kevin949

Kurce wrote:I find it unbelievable, but I have only been playing for about a year and a half now. I am still pretty bad at the game but I would think that chance/variance alone would make it very tough to win that many games in a row.

<text redacted - off-topic hearsay stories do not belong in this thread. --Janthkin>
And I still think this Necrons list is bad. He has so few models. And I don't understand his argument that fewer models makes it harder to phase out. *shrug*

You can think it's bad all you want, it's really not though. When every model has an invul save and a 4+ "i get back up like nothing happened" save that is re-rollable, it's remarkably difficult to take them all down if played properly. If he had his wraiths spread around the board then sure, drop three models and they're gone. I had a land raider and a squad unload on one squad of wraiths and didn't lose a single model. Yes, one did drop but he got back up. And that's pretty par for the course with them. Plus it demoralizes an opponent horribly when they have to kill the same squad over and over and over again, they feel like they're making no headway and that works to your advantage as well. Honestly, until you play against (or with) a wraith list, you won't know just how good they actually are. 9 wraiths cause WAY more havoc than 30 flayed ones with d.fields in my last game (planetstrike). Granted, my flayed ones didn't have the lord with them that was supposed to be supporting them (deep strike mishap, placed on opposite side of board 70" away) but the weight of numbers should have been in their favor. It was not due to power weapons and no invul save. And having your other biggest threat on the table be a vehicle that is nigh-unkillable helps as well.

Reply by: Kurce - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/06/09 13:36:33

Post by: Kurce

I had a land raider and a squad unload on one squad of wraiths and didn't lose a single model. Yes, one did drop but he got back up.

Sort of depends what the Land Raider and the Tac Squad had in terms of weapons. But, I would gander that you are extremely lucky or he is extremely unlucky. One instance of good/bad rolling does not make it awesome. Wraiths are nothing more than MEQ equivalents with (essentially) FNP that can't be cancelled (assuming you got the Res Orb close to them) when being shot at. And whereas actual MEQ armies can field droves of MEQ units, you only have 9. And Wraiths aren't even that good at close combat. Their high Strength is nice, but their WS is average and their number of attacks isn't anything wonderful considering how small the squads have to be. No Power Weapons, either. Not to mention, their point cost is through the roof. Then again, everything in the Necron codex is...

Honestly, until you play against (or with) a wraith list, you won't know just how good they actually are.

I guess I will never know, then. (There is a reason for that, by the way. )

Reply by: Kevin949 - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/06/09 16:30:51

Post by: Kevin949

Kurce wrote:

I had a land raider and a squad unload on one squad of wraiths and didn't lose a single model. Yes, one did drop but he got back up.

Sort of depends what the Land Raider and the Tac Squad had in terms of weapons. But, I would gander that you are extremely lucky or he is extremely unlucky. One instance of good/bad rolling does not make it awesome. Wraiths are nothing more than MEQ equivalents with (essentially) FNP that can't be cancelled (assuming you got the Res Orb close to them) when being shot at. And whereas actual MEQ armies can field droves of MEQ units, you only have 9. And Wraiths aren't even that good at close combat. Their high Strength is nice, but their WS is average and their number of attacks isn't anything wonderful considering how small the squads have to be. No Power Weapons, either. Not to mention, their point cost is through the roof. Then again, everything in the Necron codex is...

Honestly, until you play against (or with) a wraith list, you won't know just how good they actually are.

I guess I will never know, then. (There is a reason for that, by the way. )

It wasn't one instance though. I've fielded the wraith wing several times and they ALWAYS tear up the battlefield. That, and the 6 wraiths + lord taking out 30 BT in CC, were just the most recent examples I have.

Land raider had two twin linked lascannons and an assault cannon and I think a melta. The squad that fired on them wasn't a tac squad, I believe it was an assault squad. Don't remember what they had, bunch of bolt pistols and maybe a plasma pistol or melta. Can't remember.

Yes, the lack of power weapons or rending does hurt but that's what the lord is there for (other than res orb). Yes, they're expensive, but they are highly utilitarian due to their speed, being able to be supplanted with movement through a monolith, always get a 3+ save (termies have to pay for that), and they never lose their I6 in CC due to cover or whatever.

Honestly man, I was highly skeptical of the wraith wing build myself when I first heard about it so I understand your thoughts completely. But quite simply put, it just works and works well. Doesn't work against everything, obviously.

Flayed ones are the guys that ARE meq to the core and they are HORRIBLE at CC against marines thanks to sweeping advance.

I'm guessing your reason is that you don't play necrons and you don't know anyone who does play them. *Shrug*

Reply by: Dashofpepper - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/09/22 20:54:56

Post by: Dashofpepper

Ah...sorry for the long delay! I've had several very lengthy back to back suspensions...the last one over an apparently poor joke about 40k LARPing.

I don't post a whole lot on Dakka anymore, but I'll be glad to field questions, provide insight, and help how I can. My experience with the wraith-wing has significantly fleshed out, and they remain undefeated.

In an interesting "full circle" notion, I find the new Grey Knights and the popular takes that people bring them to the table with particularly weak against Necrons.

The newest is weakest against the oldest? =D

Reply by: Thor665 - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/09/22 21:02:56

Post by: Thor665

Same thing happened with some of the new codices versus the DE back in the day - makes sense to me.

I would have thought their high strength cannons and Bolters would be pretty good at sawing up Necrons, not to mention all the power weapons at good Str and Init - is it inability to deal with the Monoliths, or am I just being a fool to think they can handle the Wraiths and their ilk?

Reply by: Dashofpepper - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/09/27 14:33:41

Post by: Dashofpepper

Thor665 wrote:Same thing happened with some of the new codices versus the DE back in the day - makes sense to me.

I would have thought their high strength cannons and Bolters would be pretty good at sawing up Necrons, not to mention all the power weapons at good Str and Init - is it inability to deal with the Monoliths, or am I just being a fool to think they can handle the Wraiths and their ilk?

It's both.

Popular Grey Knight builds can't scratch the paint on a monolith, and all the force weapons in the world can't hurt the Deceiver unless they're STR5 or better...something that requires a L2 Psyker attached to a unit to accomplish so that they can activate their force weapons while the IC casts Hammerhand.

Grey Knights don't have a plethora of attacks in close combat, and the 3++/4+/4+ in a row combo really messes them up.

Reply by: AlmightyWalrus - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/09/27 15:33:16

Post by: AlmightyWalrus

Dashofpepper wrote:
Popular Grey Knight builds can't scratch the paint on a monolith, and all the force weapons in the world can't hurt the Deceiver unless they're STR5 or better...something that requires a L2 Psyker attached to a unit to accomplish so that they can activate their force weapons while the IC casts Hammerhand.

Just checking, but couldn't you just say "No, don't feel like it" if a unit with a L2 Psyker charged the Deceiver anyway?

Reply by: Kevin949 - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/09/27 16:53:09

Post by: Kevin949

I also didn't think the deceiver had toughness 9. Pretty sure it's 8, just like the nightbringer.

Reply by: Ascalam - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/09/27 17:03:16

Post by: Ascalam

It's 8. His Str is 9, rather than the Nightbringer's 10.

If anyone is playing Ctan as T 9 it's not kosher

Reply by: Kevin949 - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/09/27 19:19:59

Post by: Kevin949

Ascalam wrote:It's 8. His Str is 9, rather than the Nightbringer's 10.

If anyone is playing Ctan as T 9 it's not kosher

Right, which means the str 4 force weapons could still hurt him. Not sure why dash said they'd have to be str 5 unless he got the STR of the deceiver mixed up with the Toughness.

Reply by: Ascalam - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/09/27 19:22:41

Post by: Ascalam

Because T 8 is immune to S 4.


Check the chart at the back of the rulebook. It surprises the hell out of the Marine players who like piling onto a Ctan, and i love that look of stunned surprise

Of course you then have to prove it to them and endure sulky looks all game, but that's good too

Reply by: Kevin949 - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/09/27 19:33:00

Post by: Kevin949

Ascalam wrote:Because T 8 is immune to S 4.


Check the chart at the back of the rulebook. It surprises the hell out of the Marine players who like piling onto a Ctan, and i love that look of stunned surprise

Of course you then have to prove it to them and endure sulky looks all game, but that's good too

I thought it was "over" double str was immune. Though I'm always playing against black templar and I almost never field the c'tan anymore so with those two things combined, I'm rarely facing "only" str 4 attacks. It's usually dreadnoughts, terminators w/pfist, emperors champ and other dudes with pfists or some crazy thing.

Well, I haven't played 40k in months honestly so it doesn't surprise me if I forgot the chart I rarely ever referenced in the first place.

Reply by: King Pariah - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/09/27 19:34:11

Post by: King Pariah

Ascalam wrote:Because T 8 is immune to S 4.


Check the chart at the back of the rulebook. It surprises the hell out of the Marine players who like piling onto a Ctan, and i love that look of stunned surprise

Of course you then have to prove it to them and endure sulky looks all game, but that's good too

Darn, beat me to it, I love when it happens with the nightbringer and they realize they have 5 (possibly 6) strength 10 hits coming back at them.

Reply by: AlmightyWalrus - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/09/27 20:01:27

Post by: AlmightyWalrus

King Pariah wrote:

Ascalam wrote:Because T 8 is immune to S 4.


Check the chart at the back of the rulebook. It surprises the hell out of the Marine players who like piling onto a Ctan, and i love that look of stunned surprise

Of course you then have to prove it to them and endure sulky looks all game, but that's good too

Darn, beat me to it, I love when it happens with the nightbringer and they realize they have 5 (possibly 6) strength 10 hits coming back at them.

Even better when someone gets told that they ignore Invulnerable Saves, eh?

Reply by: King Pariah - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/09/27 20:04:22

Post by: King Pariah

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

King Pariah wrote:

Ascalam wrote:Because T 8 is immune to S 4.


Check the chart at the back of the rulebook. It surprises the hell out of the Marine players who like piling onto a Ctan, and i love that look of stunned surprise

Of course you then have to prove it to them and endure sulky looks all game, but that's good too

Darn, beat me to it, I love when it happens with the nightbringer and they realize they have 5 (possibly 6) strength 10 hits coming back at them.

Even better when someone gets told that they ignore Invulnerable Saves, eh?

I really, really would like to see the crons keeping that in the next codex... if they don't ima be sad.

Reply by: Ascalam - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/09/27 21:57:15

Post by: Ascalam

Then you are going to be sad, i'm afraid.

Do you really see Chapter-Master Ward allowing the Necrons to ignore his lovely 2+3++ any longer than it takes to uncap a red felt pen?

Use it while you got it

Reply by: OrksesNevaLooz - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/09/28 00:50:39

Post by: OrksesNevaLooz

Hey guys, just aquired some Necrons.... ya' know, before the bandwagon starts...... maybe...

Having played Orks for a year, I'm looking over the Necron codex & FAQ. A few questions pop up I'm hoping for guidance on...



Necrons that can't WBB because of CC weapon (because the Res Orb isn't nearby), cannot WBB through the Monolith either?

Is Phase Out not calculated until after the Monolith Power Matrix teleport trick?

Res orb within 6": Does this mean the lord with the Res Orb must be within 6" of the destroyed model? or just the destroyed model's unit? Or can it be the Lord's unit within 6"...?

FAQ states a unit wiped out can't use a Res Orb (if no Tomb Spyder around): So if a Tomb Syder is around, they can?

FAQ says Veil of Darkness can't teleport a falling back unit. Would the spirit of the rule imply the Monolith can't teleport the falling back unit either?

Is C'Tan's move 6" in a standard move?

Does the C'Tan's Drain Life power essentially act like a power weapon; thus, negate FNP?

Is the Deceiver's Misdirect fall back 2d6 like normal infantry?


Will probably play a few games before the new codex & want to have my facts straight.

Thanks

Reply by: Thaylen - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/09/28 02:26:51

Post by: Thaylen

Good guide Dash. I wouldn't mind fielding such an army as this in my local games.

Reply by: Config2 - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/09/28 02:47:15

Post by: Config2

DASHOFPEPPER YOU ARE MY HERO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NECRON FOREVER

unfortunately everyone with hate our guts after the new codex comes out, I have half a mind to ask to play with the old one if it doesnt turn out well.

Reply by: dancingcricket - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/09/28 04:13:06

Post by: dancingcricket

One of the guys in our gaming community runs wraithwing, deceiver, the whole bit. He does very well with it, and very rarely suffers a loss with it. He's usually the kind of guy who doesn't say no to anything you want to throw down on the table against him, but he keeps saying no to facing my daemons. He's faced them once or twice before, but just doesn't seem to be able to handle it. He knows he could build a list to more effectively counter my all comers lists, but then it wouldn't be very good against others. Any suggestions on how he should deal with my 3X3 tzeentch flamers? I tend to drop them in right next to what I want to drop the flame templates on, not somewhere safe and then moving them in.

My list
Fateweaver
Masque
Herald tzeentch, chariot, icon
3 flamers
3 flamers
3 flamers
10 horrors, bolt, changeling, instrument
10 horrors, bolt
10 horrors, bolt
10 Bloodletters
10 Bloodletters
10 Bloodletters
4 Screamers
4 Screamers


Impassable terrain doesn't mean much, as I can deepstrike behind it. I'll try to land my flamers about 1.5 inches away from their target (and hit often enough, or at least don't deviate too badly) and the masque helps a bit to clump things up nicely. And that's usually the reason he doesn't like to face me, there's no effective way to keep me from roasting his warriors and still pursue any kind of agressive behavior, he can't shoot the flamers before they arrive and start laying down flame templates. And the rest of my shooting does horrors (sorry, couldn't resist) to his wraiths. Suggestions? Like I said, he's a fun guy to play against, he just doesn't like playing a game when he knows it's pretty much a forgone conclusion.

Reply by: omerakk - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/09/28 04:59:03

Post by: omerakk

Has he tried sticking all those warriors in reserve and going second when possible? You'll usually force a good bit of the flamers to deepstrike in and have nothing to shoot at but the wraiths and deceiver.

While 1-2 monoliths move forward with the wraiths, have 1 monolith stay back 2" from your table edge; preferably, a corner. Now when the warriors walk on, you can ring them around behind the monolith in an L shape. Protected by 2 table edges and the monolith, there will only be 2 small openings where they can be hit from; and by a minimum of flame templates. Meanwhile, said flamers will have quite a few mishaps to worry about to even hit these 2 prime areas.

Also, if he is having that hard of a time with the horrors, he should try deploying incredibly defensive at the start; boxing the wraiths in a corner with monoliths so they can't even be hit. No matter where the deamons deepstrike in, you've ruined that first round of shooting for them and can now take advantage of the wraiths' speed

Reply by: gr1m_dan - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/09/28 08:11:49

Post by: gr1m_dan

I remember playing against a toned down Wraithwing list (1500pts) with my Tau back when I was a mere young Firewarrior and not that experienced. However I remember it being tough as hell and it pwned me. Good and proper.

He had his Lord with 2 x 3 Wraiths and would those things die?!?!?! No...

Not even with MP, PR, RG. Just kept getting back up.

Like I said it was a few years back and it's the only one I've ever seen.

It's weird how people say Necrons are underpowered but I've always struggled against them with my Tau. Beat them plenty of times with SoB (when we had lots of Evis/Power Weapons) though!

*EDIT* I realise Tau and SoB are low-tier but I love the challenge and use of non-new Codex. Similar to DOP I guess.

Reply by: Thaylen - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/09/28 08:52:10

Post by: Thaylen

You'd think tau would be perfectly suited to fight crons. They have the railguns for killing liths, and more than enough shots to drop 9 wraiths. The main thing that actually scares me in a cron list is scarabs believe it or not. If I don't roll well on markerlight hits, that 2+ cover save can be near impossible to get through before they bear down on my guys. At least fireknife suits can insta splat them.

Reply by: Dashofpepper - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/09/28 14:37:59

Post by: Dashofpepper

OrksesNevaLooz wrote:Hey guys, just aquired some Necrons.... ya' know, before the bandwagon starts...... maybe...

Having played Orks for a year, I'm looking over the Necron codex & FAQ. A few questions pop up I'm hoping for guidance on...


Necrons that can't WBB because of CC weapon (because the Res Orb isn't nearby), cannot WBB through the Monolith either? It's because of power weapons in close combat, not simply CC weapons. A monolith let's you take a second WBB roll, not gain one if one is not available.


Is Phase Out not calculated until after the Monolith Power Matrix teleport trick? That is correct.


Res orb within 6": Does this mean the lord with the Res Orb must be within 6" of the destroyed model? or just the destroyed model's unit? Or can it be the Lord's unit within 6"...? The Lord must be within 6" of the destroyed model's unit.


FAQ states a unit wiped out can't use a Res Orb (if no Tomb Spyder around): So if a Tomb Syder is around, they can? Tomb Spyders extend the range of WBB opportunities - there still has to be a like unit to WBB into (except for Lords, who WBB by themselves if need be)


FAQ says Veil of Darkness can't teleport a falling back unit. Would the spirit of the rule imply the Monolith can't teleport the falling back unit either? No. Veil of Darkness is movement, and while falling back, movement is involuntary and mandatory. Teleportation is not movement, it just happens during the movement phase. You can fall back, then teleport, or you can teleport, then fall back out of the monolith. If someone is trying to escort you off the board, you can definitely teleport away from them. There are some nuances here that I don't have a rulebook in front of me to precisely define. For example, if I remember correctly, falling back isn't done at the start of the turn, it's done at the start of the unit's movement phase. That unit's movement phase begins when you select it. I don't remember whether Monolith teleportation happens at the start of the movement phase, or any time during the movement phase.


Is C'Tan's move 6" in a standard move? Yes and no. He ignores all terrain, enemy models, and everything else with his ability to phase through reality. You just can't end inside impassable terrain)


Does the C'Tan's Drain Life power essentially act like a power weapon; thus, negate FNP?I presume you're talking about the Nightbringer? I use the Deceiver, and am not intimately familiar with Nightbringer rules. If the enemy model gets to take an armour save, then it gets to take FnP. If it doesn't get an armour save, then it doesn't get FnP.


Is the Deceiver's Misdirect fall back 2d6 like normal infantry?No. Fall back requires you to move 2D6 towards your table edge. Misdirect allows you to move 2D6 in any direction you choose. I use this quite frequently to hop out of combat and towards a juicier target, or to kite a unit, or to cross the field...see my guide.



Will probably play a few games before the new codex & want to have my facts straight.

Thanks

Reply by: SonsofVulkan - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/09/28 15:06:05

Post by: SonsofVulkan

Hey DoP I missed your Batreps, I know you probably don't feel like posting them becuz people might start flaming you. I say forget those haterz! Please post a couple more batreps with your necrons or DEs!!

Reply by: Kevin949 - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/09/28 16:20:06

Post by: Kevin949

Hey Dash, you might want to make sure he understands that the lord has to be within 6" of a LIVING model in the unit for that unit to benefit from the res orb.

Reply by: OrksesNevaLooz - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/09/28 16:55:00

Post by: OrksesNevaLooz

Thank you, Dash.

I have read the guide, and it is very helpful. But these things become clearer as you play.

Bear with me.....hoping to clarify..

Ok, looking back, I knew about the Power weapon WBB negation unless a Res Orb(missed it in edit).
So.... the tomb spyders extend the WBB range, but will not help vs. power weapons.

Based on the Veil of Darkness response, I could teleport falling back units to delay their flee off the board (hoping maybe for a WBB & join for a chance to regroup?)

Ok, so a C'Tan only moves 6" in the movement phase. (ignoring terrain, limits on impassible, etc) Was hoping for 12"..... a guy can wish.....

Looked to me like the Drain Life was listed on the page of C'Tan 'abilities in common'. What I'm hung up on is where it says 'will not regenerate or recover because of bionics, nartheciums, exsanguinators, or any similar wargear.' Since this was written before the prevalence of power weapons & FNP (I started w/5th Ed), seems like it might be referring to acting like a power weapon???..... Seems awful difficult to believe such a high price HQ wouldn't have a power weapon at least...

With Misdirect, I was wanting to make sure it was 2d6. The rest is understandable.


With the direction Codex updates have been going, I can see how playing Necrons has a much smaller margin for error.

Thanks again, Guys

Reply by: Ascalam - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/09/28 17:01:10

Post by: Ascalam

The Ctan is a monstrous creature that ignores both armour and invulnerable saves in close combat.

He don't need no steenking power weapon

It's under the Monstrous creature part of the Ctan abilities page.

Reply by: Kevin949 - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/09/28 17:04:55

Post by: Kevin949

OrksesNevaLooz wrote:Thank you, Dash.

I have read the guide, and it is very helpful. But these things become clearer as you play.

Bear with me.....hoping to clarify..

Ok, looking back, I knew about the Power weapon WBB negation unless a Res Orb(missed it in edit).
So.... the tomb spyders extend the WBB range, but will not help vs. power weapons.

Based on the Veil of Darkness response, I could teleport falling back units to delay their flee off the board (hoping maybe for a WBB & join for a chance to regroup?)Only if there are eligible necrons that failed their WBB and awaiting to be teleported. Remember, they only get that one turn to make one or two WBB rolls then they're removed.

Ok, so a C'Tan only moves 6" in the movement phase. (ignoring terrain, limits on impassible, etc) Was hoping for 12"..... a guy can wish.....There's always running.

Looked to me like the Drain Life was listed on the page of C'Tan 'abilities in common'. What I'm hung up on is where it says 'will not regenerate or recover because of bionics, nartheciums, exsanguinators, or any similar wargear.' Since this was written before the prevalence of power weapons & FNP (I started w/5th Ed), seems like it might be referring to acting like a power weapon???..... Seems awful difficult to believe such a high price HQ wouldn't have a power weapon at least...The Drain Life ability is fairly useless now as there isn't much that exists anymore (if anything) that it would ignore. Also, note that it say "loses it's last wound" so the tyranid regenerate still works while they have wounds left. Look more at the necrodermis and MC section to see about them ignoring armor/invul saves and you'll have your FNP answer there.

With Misdirect, I was wanting to make sure it was 2d6. The rest is understandable.


With the direction Codex updates have been going, I can see how playing Necrons has a much smaller margin for error.

Thanks again, Guys

Reply by: dancingcricket - click to view full reply 

8193

Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/09/28 19:08:07

Post by: dancingcricket

omerakk wrote:Has he tried sticking all those warriors in reserve and going second when possible? You'll usually force a good bit of the flamers to deepstrike in and have nothing to shoot at but the wraiths and deceiver.

While 1-2 monoliths move forward with the wraiths, have 1 monolith stay back 2" from your table edge; preferably, a corner. Now when the warriors walk on, you can ring them around behind the monolith in an L shape. Protected by 2 table edges and the monolith, there will only be 2 small openings where they can be hit from; and by a minimum of flame templates. Meanwhile, said flamers will have quite a few mishaps to worry about to even hit these 2 prime areas.

Also, if he is having that hard of a time with the horrors, he should try deploying incredibly defensive at the start; boxing the wraiths in a corner with monoliths so they can't even be hit. No matter where the deamons deepstrike in, you've ruined that first round of shooting for them and can now take advantage of the wraiths' speed

Yep, he does leave his warriors in reserve to walk on later. He's tried the bit about hiding the wraiths and lord to move forward. That hasn't worked out well, as I just drop my shooting far enough away that he has to turboboost to get close enough to assault his next round, and I open up big time. If I get the flamers and such instead of the horrors, I use masque to keep his deceiver backing up, and will flame the wraiths, then shoot with anything that's landed at the beginning of my second round, then follow up with bloodletter assaults to make sure I drop all the wraiths. Hitting and wounding on 3's in CC will do enough wounds to the surviving wraiths that there isn't anything to WBB with.

As for Deepstriking in my flamers that close, I consider them suicide squads, and frequently drop them in that close. Mishaps have gotten a lot less scary in 5th ed.

Reply by: omerakk - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/09/28 22:47:37

Post by: omerakk

dancingcricket wrote:

omerakk wrote:Has he tried sticking all those warriors in reserve and going second when possible? You'll usually force a good bit of the flamers to deepstrike in and have nothing to shoot at but the wraiths and deceiver.

While 1-2 monoliths move forward with the wraiths, have 1 monolith stay back 2" from your table edge; preferably, a corner. Now when the warriors walk on, you can ring them around behind the monolith in an L shape. Protected by 2 table edges and the monolith, there will only be 2 small openings where they can be hit from; and by a minimum of flame templates. Meanwhile, said flamers will have quite a few mishaps to worry about to even hit these 2 prime areas.

Also, if he is having that hard of a time with the horrors, he should try deploying incredibly defensive at the start; boxing the wraiths in a corner with monoliths so they can't even be hit. No matter where the deamons deepstrike in, you've ruined that first round of shooting for them and can now take advantage of the wraiths' speed

Yep, he does leave his warriors in reserve to walk on later. He's tried the bit about hiding the wraiths and lord to move forward. That hasn't worked out well, as I just drop my shooting far enough away that he has to turboboost to get close enough to assault his next round, and I open up big time. If I get the flamers and such instead of the horrors, I use masque to keep his deceiver backing up, and will flame the wraiths, then shoot with anything that's landed at the beginning of my second round, then follow up with bloodletter assaults to make sure I drop all the wraiths. Hitting and wounding on 3's in CC will do enough wounds to the surviving wraiths that there isn't anything to WBB with.

As for Deepstriking in my flamers that close, I consider them suicide squads, and frequently drop them in that close. Mishaps have gotten a lot less scary in 5th ed.

Well there is problem; if your shooters are that far away, he shouldn't bother turbo boosting to them just to get shot at. He should just sit back behind the monoliths; letting them move forward and do any shooting while keeping the wraiths out of sight or so far back that even if the mask gets to pull them forward 6", they are still out of range of the horrors. If flamers or anything do drop in, he should be set up enough that 1 wraith can survive in each group so he gets a double chance at wbb with his monolith portal, or in worst case scenario, he losses an entire group, it still has a chance to make wbb rolls and make 1 squad of wraiths bigger. I understand that the flamers or suicide units, I was just pointing out how easy it is to limit their shots with proper deployment.

He really should be able to screw with your list quite easy with a defensive setup, but this also requires a LOT of sitting around and doing nothing turn after turn to force things into a favorable position. It's boring, and most people will never do it. It sounds like that's what's happening with him, hence the aggressive turbo-boosting out to his death

Reply by: davethepak - click to view full reply 

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Dashofpepper’s Guide to Shaming Opponents with Necrons: Finished! @ 2011/10/07 02:38:05

Post by: davethepak

Excellent guide, thank you very much for your perseverance in completing it amid some of the earlier comments.

I love my necrons (and my tau!!!), and I have tried running a wraith wing. I have found that while powerful, I just can't kill enough enemy units fast enough. (i.e. the wing can only be so many places at one time). I have not lost any games with them, but have only a handful under my belt with them so far.

I hope you have a chance to post some guides on deployment etc.

I am also interested in the spyder guide...but alas, with the new codex on the horizon, it is difficult to invest too much into today's tactics....I know this is a poor opinion for me to have, but I have concerns about the new dex.

Anyway, excellent guide.