Apparently, the sniping was getting pretty thick on the Facebook page, so Games Workshop released a statement requesting people's comments. Now, some of you might be able to actually talk to GW and address some of these rumors.
Your comments
by Games Workshop on Wednesday, May 18, 2011 at 10:35am
Hi everyone,
Well, we can see that there are quite a few of you with strong feelings about several issues, and the threads have gone a little crazy. We’re sorry many of you feel frustrated. We have read all of your comments and because we (the web dudes) don’t have the power to act on any of them, be assured that we have passed your comments on to the higher levels of management in GW.
We want to continue posting pictures of your fantastic miniatures, and link to hobby related items. We would like future threads to remain relevant to the topic in question, so everyone else can have their voice heard and enjoy the discussions about the hobby we all love.
We’ve got your comments both in this thread and on those older posts, which will remain open for you to carry on the conversation there – please, feel absolutely free to do so, we will indeed read them. But in any new threads, we want to celebrate the creative efforts of others. Any comments that stray off topic will be removed.
Just remember that we must remove any strong language and abusive users, in consideration of our youngest fans.
The web team.
Titled changed to better reflect that topic is distinct. ~Manchu
Pretty much an attempt at placating people, that's how I view it. This disclaimer now gives them leave to delete negative comment, classed as being 'off-topic' while offering a sop to people that their views have been passed to those in authority, when we really know they are being ignored.
If GW were really serious about limiting the damage from this they would (other than not doing it in the first place) have released a meticulously crafted PR piece explaining their reasons and softening the blow. The deafening silence from GW ivory towers just adds to the anger, quite frankly.
Acardia wrote:total avoidance and passing the buck.
Really? you think the CEO of GW is running the Facebook page? That's like baming the guy who works in the mail room for the policies of his company. If people have real problems with GW, make them heard, and they are telling you now that they are!
It's an attempt at passing the blame, but something may come of it. Just because the individuals managing the GW Facebook group "don’t have the power to act" doesn't mean they're not GW.
Either way, at least this is something. I expected GW to pull an Iran and ignore the complaints until people got tired.
The comments have been posted in the multiple threads already complaining about GW's not-so-brilliant strategies and should probably be discussed there. While I'm all for peeing on GW right now (and have been doing a fair amount of it), I don't think dakka needs another thread on the same general topic in news and rumors. Just my two cents.
filbert wrote:Pretty much an attempt at placating people, that's how I view it. This disclaimer now gives them leave to delete negative comment, classed as being 'off-topic' while offering a sop to people that their views have been passed to those in authority, when we really know they are being ignored.
To an extent you are right, but you are attributing to malice what can adequately be attributed to incompetence. You do not know that the company isn't taking this seriously. Give it 20 minutes before you assume it is being ignored.
If GW were really serious about limiting the damage from this they would (other than not doing it in the first place) have released a meticulously crafted PR piece explaining their reasons and softening the blow. The deafening silence from GW ivory towers just adds to the anger, quite frankly.
They may not have expected the backlash, which is a bit silly. I totally agree they need to do some spin work though, cause right now they're letting the interwebs write the narrative, which just looks bad. That being said, big companies don't usually explain their every move to the populace at large.
filbert wrote:Pretty much an attempt at placating people, that's how I view it.
This disclaimer now gives them leave to delete negative comment, classed as being 'off-topic'
while offering a sop to people that their views have been passed to those in authority, when we really know they are being ignored.
If GW were really serious about limiting the damage from this they would (other than not doing it in the first place) have released a meticulously crafted PR piece explaining their reasons and softening the blow. The deafening silence from GW ivory towers just adds to the anger, quite frankly.
Be careful, the modquisition may be listening to your insolence...
The forum on Facebook is for people to share with GW what they do, as well as for GW to have another outlet to share the new stuff. The best part is it's free! (unlike White Dwarf) But a lot of people don't comment on the work, some think it's a place for debate, and not over the posted pics and the like.
filbert wrote:Pretty much an attempt at placating people, that's how I view it. This disclaimer now gives them leave to delete negative comment, classed as being 'off-topic' while offering a sop to people that their views have been passed to those in authority, when we really know they are being ignored.
To an extent you are right, but you are attributing to malice what can adequately be attributed to incompetence. You do not know that the company isn't taking this seriously. Give it 20 minutes before you assume it is being ignored.
If GW were really serious about limiting the damage from this they would (other than not doing it in the first place) have released a meticulously crafted PR piece explaining their reasons and softening the blow. The deafening silence from GW ivory towers just adds to the anger, quite frankly.
They may not have expected the backlash, which is a bit silly. I totally agree they need to do some spin work though, cause right now they're letting the interwebs write the narrative, which just looks bad. That being said, big companies don't usually explain their every move to the populace at large.
I'm not attributing anything to malice - its pretty clear the web team have little or no relation to the corporate movers and shakers at GW, beyond being employed by them. Frankly, incompetence and GW go hand in hand and for GW to not expect some sort of reaction to their latest stunts shows a criminal lack of research and shows just how out of touch they are with their consumers and market. And that is pretty shocking.
filbert wrote:Pretty much an attempt at placating people, that's how I view it. This disclaimer now gives them leave to delete negative comment, classed as being 'off-topic' while offering a sop to people that their views have been passed to those in authority, when we really know they are being ignored.
If GW were really serious about limiting the damage from this they would (other than not doing it in the first place) have released a meticulously crafted PR piece explaining their reasons and softening the blow. The deafening silence from GW ivory towers just adds to the anger, quite frankly.
Entirely in agreement. They give people somewhere to vent where their comments will be "passed on" to a "higher power" and then give themselves power and justification for stopping people from complining and essentially flooding their FB page with negative comments in the hope that it gets buried in that single thread (I would bet anything there will be a whole flurry of posts by GW now to push it off the front page as well) and thus passes out of the public eye.
A lot of the problem comes from the complete lack of communication from anyone in power at GW (although obviously they are based on the genuine complaints and anger over the choices made) and their seeming deafness to anything that the playerbase is saying.
filbert wrote:Pretty much an attempt at placating people, that's how I view it. This disclaimer now gives them leave to delete negative comment, classed as being 'off-topic' while offering a sop to people that their views have been passed to those in authority, when we really know they are being ignored.
If GW were really serious about limiting the damage from this they would (other than not doing it in the first place) have released a meticulously crafted PR piece explaining their reasons and softening the blow. The deafening silence from GW ivory towers just adds to the anger, quite frankly.
Agreed,this appears to be little more than a pat on the head before getting back to "business as usual".
Acardia wrote:total avoidance and passing the buck.
Really? you think the CEO of GW is running the Facebook page? That's like baming the guy who works in the mail room for the policies of his company. If people have real problems with GW, make them heard, and they are telling you now that they are!
I think any rational person would say no to the first.
However, one must equally accept that GWHQ could also post up something on Facebook and everywhere else they do their marketing (WD, newsletter, website) if they wanted to as well. The CEO's direct presence is not required for him to communicate with us via the Facebook page. It merely requires an actual response.
It is a fine line here, I can completely understand that they don't want their Facebook page hijacked into a non-stop bitchfest, it is not the purpose or design of their work there.
I can also understand that they have cut off all other venues of actually getting a non-automated or stock response that they themselves own, so where else can we go to complain to them directly? Sending emails that are most likely deleted before being read? Go to non-existent GW forums?
I understand the need to protect their interests, but they also need to give their customers a place they can go where genuine communication takes place, otherwise they cannot be surprised when people will take whatever opportunity arises. Up to and including the Facebook page.
Automatically Appended Next Post: NOTE - Addressing the issue, however noncommittally was at least a step in the right direction, and I think someone there should at least get a little credit for stepping up and not pretending the room isn't on fire.
I think this was the only acknowledgment the web dudes dared. Others would just have deleted the posts or closed the thread or facebook page.
Keep in mind that GW's internal atmosphere is very restrictive, with critique/feedback not encouraged and often leading to being fired.
I don't do facebook (it's the devil!) but it's nice that someone there is actually saying something and I agree with them about not putting replies from complainers where they don't belong since we do the same thing here. Maybe this will get someone there that gets paid more than $10 an hour to do something about it.
Their jobs are safe because no one else in corporate can figure out facebook. But just wait til those execs replace the web dudes with their teenage daughters.
Maybe people should respond to that Facebook post praising the web dudes for at least admitting publicly that all is not well from the customer perspective.
Also, could "GW Web Dudes" be an emergent dakka meme? Something like "Web Dudes Resistance Front"? Or "Dakkanauts for Encouragement of Web Dudes" (D.E.W.D.). I'm not trying to blame the victim here or anything . . .
MajorTom11 wrote:
It is a fine line here, I can completely understand that they don't want their Facebook page hijacked into a non-stop bitchfest, it is not the purpose or design of their work there.
I am sure that GW views Facebook as a form of advertising, and thus certainly do not want negative posts on their Facebook page. However, it is also a social network. If you piss people off then they will react. I think that GW will find that they either have to treat their customers right or pull out of Facebook.
"Please, please, please, GW - even if this is only the web team - realize that you have to change. This isn't the 1990's, or even the early 2000's, when Games Workshop was quite literally the only game company people could turn to for a fun miniature game. Today, we have Battlefront, Privateer Press, Wyrd Miniatures, Mantic Games, Spartan Games - so many competitors that have quality products that disillusioned Games Workshop fans can turn to. GW, at this rate, is going to lose veterans who can no longer afford to purchase new models, or have become unhappy with the current rules/releases/structure of the company, while at the same time restrict new players from entering the hobby. The child who's parents gives them the 5-10 dollar/pound allowance, the high school student who barely makes over minimum wage, the grown adult who lives comfortably - none of them will be able to afford to purchase a single army, let alone the other ranges that they will undoubtedly feel a pull towards. Already, I never go to my local GW store - there's no reason to. My local FLGS has regular sales that allows me to makes purchases at slightly more reasonable prices. There's also the restriction on Wayland and Maelstrom. Our Australian brethren can no longer make use of these companies, meaning its now -less-expensive for them to purchase from Forgeworld than it is to order from the GW website. This cannot continue. I don't want to see Games Workshop go under. You make a great game, with fantastic models and an amazingly deep background. But a continuing of these bussiness practices means that people will turn away. A trickle at first, perhaps, but more and more will continue to stop making purchases and put away their models, or go to other companies."
Acardia wrote:total avoidance and passing the buck.
Really? you think the CEO of GW is running the Facebook page? That's like baming the guy who works in the mail room for the policies of his company. If people have real problems with GW, make them heard, and they are telling you now that they are!
Wizards of the Coast, the company that makes Magic: The Gathering, owns both a twitter feed, a facebook page, and a main site. All three are frequented and often updated by higher-ups such as Mark Rosewater. People may criticize MtG for being expensive, but they currently hold the majority of the TCG market and yet their community relations are excellent and their product balanced.
Manchu wrote:I'm really surprised that there was any response at all. To me, it makes the fact that they're "just web dudes" more believable.
Don't worry, they've already been fired
No doubt!
The people will rise: first Tunisia and Egypt, then Lybia and Syria, now the GW fans? I hope it works out better than those other cases . . .
The Nerd Spring?
The Web guy comments are just what would be expoected by any web team i'm sure. If GWFB page gets pulled it will be after a few days when the passed on comments reach the boardroom.
Web lacky - "Mr Kirby, its the Internet, they are disrupting the Facebook page" [cowers]
Kirby - "the Intenet has reached facebook now!......Hmmmmmm it is like a Tironad swarm it gets into everything! We call them Tironads don't we?"
At this point, any sensible GW player should be re-evaluting whether or not you enjoy being treated like dirt by a company that runs on the money you spend. Personally, I've already started the transition away from GW...and let me say that there are a LOT better, cheaper games out on the market right now!
I've barely put much more work into Inquisimunda simply because I don't feel the company is worth supporting anymore.
It's sad but I'm tired of paying 50% more than market value for a product that GW simply cannot write good rules for or fully support with sufficient FAQs (gamers need to ask the critical question of why an independently compiled FAQ like the INAT is better than the actual company FAQs). I'm tired of hearing how GW switching materials (first from metal to plastic, now metal to resin) will "decrease cost" only to have costs increase very single year for the past 10 years.
ancientsociety wrote:At this point, any sensible GW player should be re-evaluting whether or not you enjoy being treated like dirt by a company that runs on the money you spend.
Bit OTT for an American flag but I can see the Aussies, Kiwis, et alia, feeling this way.
Again, folks, I think it might be a good idea to praise the web dudes for at least acknowledging that there's something winding up the fans rather than simply ignoring it.
ancientsociety wrote:At this point, any sensible GW player should be re-evaluting whether or not you enjoy being treated like dirt by a company that runs on the money you spend. Personally, I've already started the transition away from GW...and let me say that there are a LOT better, cheaper games out on the market right now!
I don't know, from the Webdudes posts on the GWFB page there are still GW kool-aid drinkers who are more then willing to tell GW how awesome they are.
MajorTom11 wrote:
It is a fine line here, I can completely understand that they don't want their Facebook page hijacked into a non-stop bitchfest, it is not the purpose or design of their work there.
I am sure that GW views Facebook as a form of advertising, and thus certainly do not want negative posts on their Facebook page. However, it is also a social network. If you piss people off then they will react. I think that GW will find that they either have to treat their customers right or pull out of Facebook.
Yes, that is exactly what I wrote in the rest of the same post lol
ancientsociety wrote:At this point, any sensible GW player should be re-evaluting whether or not you enjoy being treated like dirt by a company that runs on the money you spend.
Bit OTT for an American flag but I can see the Aussies, Kiwis, et alia, feeling this way.
Again, folks, I think it might be a good idea to praise the web dudes for at least acknowledging that there's something winding up the fans rather than simply ignoring it.
You are right, the webdudes did take a big gamble coming out and saying something about what was getting people all upset. They didn't have to step up and say something since it wasn't their decision or actions that caused this, just those of the higher ups.
ProtoClone wrote:I don't know, from the Webdudes posts on the GWFB page there are still GW kool-aid drinkers who are more then willing to tell GW how awesome they are.
But see, that's the problem. We on Dakka, while a large number of GW players, do not in any way represent the majority of their customers. Even if half of the population of Dakka stopped buying from GW (which is quite a generous estimation), it wouldn't suddenly plunge the company into bankruptcy. There are enough other fans out there that will still buy, and plenty of new players that will get drawn in. Does that mean that you shouldn't boycott the game? Of course not. I plan on it myself. Just don't expect GW to crumble any time soon.
WarOne wrote:Acknowledging there is something wrong is the best thing so far we have gotten from GW.
This is absolutely imperative to keep in mind. Of course, it's not a Standard Bearer from Jervis (a good place to tackle this in some ways) but it's something.
Prices will not go down. That's counterintuitive, really. But one thing that might come out of this is convincing someone at GW, someone who might one day be in charge, that communicating with the customers is not necessarily a bad thing.
ProtoClone wrote:I don't know, from the Webdudes posts on the GWFB page there are still GW kool-aid drinkers who are more then willing to tell GW how awesome they are.
But see, that's the problem. We on Dakka, while a large number of GW players, do not in any way represent the majority of their customers.
That's what Facebook is for. Casual fans of the game may have gone to the main site and been directed to "like" GW on Facebook. Suddenly, they see this whole fiasco.
Dakka, Warseer, and BOLS aren't the only ones complaining now. Facebook is useful.
Positive comments stand out when they're reasonable: "We don't like the prices but we do like the communication. Please realize that communication is a good thing."
loki old fart wrote:Ultimately GW has control of there page on face book.
So you have to start another page they have no control off.
Let everybody post negative remarks on that
Enough negative publicity and they will notice.
Remember they are about to open the Bowie Bunker as well.
Imagine seeing a horde (even a small one) of GW former/enraged customers protesting outside their store on their Opening Day.
Pickets and signs are bad images for a company.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Manchu wrote:Negativity is easy to ignore.
Positive comments stand out when they're reasonable: "We don't like the prices but we do like the communication. Please realize that communication is a good thing."
And asking them to communicate is reasonable, isn't it?
loki old fart wrote:Ultimately GW has control of there page on face book.
So you have to start another page they have no control off.
Let everybody post negative remarks on that
Enough negative publicity and they will notice.
There's a difference between "negative remarks" and "negative remarks for the sake of being negative".
Example: "I'm upset and troubled by these announcements and the ramifications they have for the company I've supported for years. As a result of this whole situation, I will no longer be purchasing any Games Workshop products and selling my currently owned products off to afford buying into new systems from the other companies which are out there right now."
That's an example of a "negative remark"---couched in such a way that there's no way whatsoever they can delete it without it being viably called "sweeping it under the rug".
Example: "WTFGW? ARE YOU STUPID?! FETH THIS! I'M OUT! I HOPE YOU ALL FAIL BECAUSE OF MATT WARD! HE'S TERRIBLE AND EVERYONE KNOWS IT!"
That's an example of the second kind of remark--which they've been promptly deleting and what led to the FB page being locked yesterday.
Okay, Kanluwen, let's not drive off-topic here. We're not talking about comments like your second example.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Manchu wrote:Negativity is easy to ignore.
Positive comments stand out when they're reasonable: "We don't like the prices but we do like the communication. Please realize that communication is a good thing."
And asking them to communicate is reasonable, isn't it?
Yes - we know it's reasonable. We have to convince some of the folks in GW that it's reasonable.
WarOne wrote:And the first step is getting someone on the horn to tell us why they are doing it.
And that's not easy to do..
we have 3-12 days for someone from upper management to realize there's a problem
then 4-16 days for them to draft a response in every language they need to
then they will have to wait for just the right time to post the response, which will be 1 week before it's supposed to be released since they're not allowed to give us any advanced info
By then it will be october and no one will care anymore.
Of course, they never dropped thier prices when PP (Polypropolene) and PS (Polystyrene) resin plummeted over 60% starting in November of 2008 through June of 2009.
By then it will be october and no one will care anymore.
Relative, those who did care may no longer be in the hobby/try to support the hobby.
A realisitc scenario is that GW ignores the complaints. People adjust. They may buy less, or buy second hand. They may go to other hobbies, or quit outright.
But when the next increase comes (hell, it could even be this year), the fervor is either only going to get worse or their market share on the miniatures hobby will shrink.
I think it is important that they hear this now before prices become even more inflexible. I like the miniatures, but affording them is another thing entirely.
ProtoClone wrote:I don't know, from the Webdudes posts on the GWFB page there are still GW kool-aid drinkers who are more then willing to tell GW how awesome they are.
But see, that's the problem. We on Dakka, while a large number of GW players, do not in any way represent the majority of their customers. Even if half of the population of Dakka stopped buying from GW (which is quite a generous estimation), it wouldn't suddenly plunge the company into bankruptcy. There are enough other fans out there that will still buy, and plenty of new players that will get drawn in. Does that mean that you shouldn't boycott the game? Of course not. I plan on it myself. Just don't expect GW to crumble any time soon.
You are right.
I would imagine the loyalists find the FB page a safe place to show their support en mass.
Of course, they never dropped thier prices when PP (Polypropolene) and PS (Polystyrene) resin plummeted over 60% starting in November of 2008 through June of 2009.
Nuts.
If GW would actually come out and say why they are increasing the prices, that might help.
Of course, they never dropped thier prices when PP (Polypropolene) and PS (Polystyrene) resin plummeted over 60% starting in November of 2008 through June of 2009.
I don't ever expect to see price decreases. I think that's an unrealistic expectation.
The idea that GW could eventually go back to having some kind of dialog with their consumers is more probable. But it's a long term goal.
The faster GW falls so that the axe falls on the incompetent management, the better. They've created such a hostile environment that the only salvation would be in a total reboot.
The cost of raw materials is about 2% of plastic models. If it doubles, the proportion goes up to 4%. GW's gross margin is 76%. It drops to 74% on the increase in price of plastic. This does not justify a 17% increase in the retail price of the kit. A 0.5% increase in retail price would cover the increased plastic cost.
I dont blame the Web people @ all and am glad they actually posted any kind of reply at all!
It rests squarely with the individuals deciding the pricing/marketing at the top. But as usual those are the individuals who dont have to deal with any customer anger.
It's only the call centre staff, the 1 man shop owners or the web team who just want to earn a living.
GW really needs to provide a proper place as many people have said, for people to post their opinions/feedback even if it is negative.
Long may the Dakka Heresy continue! It is the only way that GW will be brought to account. ALL of us need to realise we have a voice. We are NOT a minority. All we are doing is reflecting a worldwide response from the fans. The momentum must continue, we cannot complain for a couple of days and then go back to sleep. DAKKA has finally united and took a STAND. LONG MAY IT CONTINUE.
Slipstream wrote:Long may the Dakka Heresy continue! It is the only way that GW will be brought to account. ALL of us need to realise we have a voice. We are NOT a minority. All we are doing is reflecting a worldwide response from the fans. The momentum must continue, we cannot complain for a couple of days and then go back to sleep. DAKKA has finally united and took a STAND. LONG MAY IT CONTINUE.
Unhappiness with the embargo, the continual price increases and the way that the fanbase is being treated (some much worse than others). This is a reflection of how the company is being run. We all have an investment in this company through miniature purchase, whether it be for gaming, for painting or collecting. Most or all of us would like to see 40K grow and thrive and we believe that a business model such as this one stifles the abilities to do either of those. I'm outraged by their treatment of gamers in other parts of the world and the price increases across the board and I don't need to buy a single model for either of my armies.
The perfect venue is GW's facebook page. The perfect action is to express your criticism in a polite way and to express approval (and maybe also surprise) that the Web Dudes have acknowledge the criticism.
SilverMK2's post on their FB wall wrote:Dialogue with customers? I hope the "Web Dudes" don't get fired for going against GW's legendary lack of interaction with "outsiders".
I also hope this is not a poor attempt at sidelining the anger over the recent "announcements" (even though I am pretty certain GW themselves did not announce anything over the new trade region limitations - no shock there) into a forgotten thread, allowing people to vent here, ignored, while keeping the rest of your FB page free of any sign of dissention.
I also look forward to an actual official response to the issues that have been brought to the forefront in the last few days (at least the more rational and well written ones). Though I don't hold out much hope for any such thing.
I have virtually no faith of any kind in GW's communication.
Edit: Should probably have mentioned that they didn't "announce" any of the price increases either... Never mind
I don't really see the reason for all of this drama. GW are reducing a lot of prices and people haven't even seen the new product to actually judge its value.
There's no doubt in my mind that it won't turn out so bad after all and it'll be just like every case of overpoweredcodexfreakout syndrome that we forum users drivel out. I think it's a poor representation of ourselves, and we've got to be kidding if we seriously think that pulling our hair out on a public forum is going to change GW's opinon of us.
This entire thread, and most of those before them on GW's activities, have been mainly composed of vitriol regarding a hobby we all do anyway and it's probably what they'll see, first thing in the News Section, convincing them that we're a foaming pack of rabid protester-zombies. Face it - most people in real life acknowledge that the majority of 'the internet' is rage and nonsense. The rest probably think it's all porn. The truth is probably somewhere closer a combination of the two combined with a lot of ads and poorly referenced educational essays. None of those things are good.
The best way to approach them would probably be through their retail stores where, more than ever given recent circumstances, they'll probably be doing most of their business. GW has always been the sort of company that does what it wants and somehow I doubt that the slurred voice of the online crowd will achieve anything much when it simply complains and offers no real alternative. It's like a mob of moaning homeless people, seriously. You could give 'em a buck but it sure as hell isn't going to stop them from being homeless. They'll just bother you again the next time they see you. The likelyhood of GW rewarding this is as slim as piss, folks - nothing to see here.
Arctik_Firangi wrote:I don't really see the reason for all of this drama. GW are reducing a lot of prices and people haven't even seen the new product to actually judge its value.
How is getting rid of an option to buy internationally at 50% of the a locally inflated MSRP coupled with an overall price increase not a reason? Also, where are you getting this reduction of prices? I only saw things stay the same or go up on the list? Even if I missed a few decreases, the overall change is a easily characterized as upward.
Slipstream wrote:Long may the Dakka Heresy continue! It is the only way that GW will be brought to account. ALL of us need to realise we have a voice. We are NOT a minority. All we are doing is reflecting a worldwide response from the fans. The momentum must continue, we cannot complain for a couple of days and then go back to sleep. DAKKA has finally united and took a STAND. LONG MAY IT CONTINUE.
MrNurgle wrote:I am still going to purchase gamesworkshop minis as the hobby makes me really happy and you cannot put a price on happiness
Hoping this is sarcasm, if not... silly person
Eh, I feel pretty well the same as MrNurgle. I mean, there's obviously a line somewhere but these latest hikes ain't it.
What I am concerned about -- and this is nothing new, either -- is GW being increasingly insular in a market that can bear PP and Malifaux and who knows what else in addition to GW. I'm not questioning their business decisions, because I simply don't have all the facts, but it does feel like the company is pretty out-of-touch with its context (considering that it thinks of itself as the only context).
I don't know why people are moaning so much, if it's expensive, don't buy so much, simple as! I have gotten by on £5 a week allowance and a bit of birthday and christmas money and now I have a plague marine army, with metal and forgeworld bit's, all with greenstuff work, and painted up, I have also gotten things such as DVD's, clothes, books and this is all on £5 a week and birthday and christmas money
MrNurgle wrote:I don't know why people are moaning so much, if it's expensive, don't buy so much, simple as! I have gotten by on £5 a week allowance and a bit of birthday and christmas money and now I have a plague marine army, with metal and forgeworld bit's, all with greenstuff work, and painted up, I have also gotten things such as DVD's, clothes, books and this is all on £5 a week and birthday and christmas money
MrNurgle wrote:I don't know why people are moaning so much, if it's expensive, don't buy so much, simple as! I have gotten by on £5 a week allowance and a bit of birthday and christmas money and now I have a plague marine army, with metal and forgeworld bit's, all with greenstuff work, and painted up, I have also gotten things such as DVD's, clothes, books and this is all on £5 a week and birthday and christmas money
p.s. I also buy everything direct from GW
Your example of the £5 a week allowance is unfortunately inapplicable to a number of Dakkites. Overheads and other unforseen expenses certainly don't leave me £25 a month to spend on GW, DVD's etc. Much to my chargin.
The problem is, people enjoy buying minitures. The price on their enjoyment is being raise circa 17%.They are upset because their ability to continue this enjoyment is decreasing exponetially. Undoubtedly, they will continue as you have suggested, but they are still entitled to be unhappy about it.
Finally, welcome to Dakka. You are posting intelligently and well; I hope you enjoy your stay!
Arctik_Firangi wrote:I don't really see the reason for all of this drama. GW are reducing a lot of prices and people haven't even seen the new product to actually judge its value.
Aside from the fact they're exactly the same models just made from a different medium?
Also, where exactly are GW reducing prices? One would assume based on your flag it's certainly not in your country if the Maelstrom thing is anything to go by...
MrNurgle wrote:I don't know why people are moaning so much, if it's expensive, don't buy so much, simple as! I have gotten by on £5 a week allowance and a bit of birthday and christmas money and now I have a plague marine army, with metal and forgeworld bit's, all with greenstuff work, and painted up, I have also gotten things such as DVD's, clothes, books and this is all on £5 a week and birthday and christmas money
p.s. I also buy everything direct from GW
Your example of the £5 a week allowance is unfortunately inapplicable to a number of Dakkites. Overheads and other unforseen expenses certainly don't leave me £25 a month to spend on GW, DVD's etc. Much to my chargin.
The problem is, people enjoy buying minitures. The price on their enjoyment is being raise circa 17%.They are upset because their ability to continue this enjoyment is decreasing exponetially. Undoubtedly, they will continue as you have suggested, but they are still entitled to be unhappy about it.
Finally, welcome to Dakka. You are posting intelligently and well; I hope you enjoy your stay!
Thank-you very much!
I can see people enjoy the hobby, and I can see why they don't want it to get pricey, after all, having cash is a privilage now-days, and bills and expences do really hit hard, stripping nearly all hard earned cash from most people. It's just if you want to get back at gamesworkshop for rising prices, just buy less and they will soon realise they are selling less of their stocks and you lot will have a bit of spare cash Also, heres a tip, I like to stick with one army because there is generally less to buy and also less things to buy if the codex gets updated, all my tanks, I get from ebay and lastly, if I have spare arms/ heads ect... I can usually build and convert a couple more marines. Sure these are 'cheap' ways for creating an army, but with a great paint job it can look just as good as any expensive armies.
MrNurgle wrote:It's just if you want to get back at gamesworkshop for rising prices, just buy less and they will soon realise they are selling less of their stocks
I would not count on that as they have been selling progressively less stuff for a number of years now and they still keep putting up their prices.
thats exactly it. Dont like it, vote with your wallet, spend less or quit altogether! Which is exactly what I have decided to do as of next weeks price rise.
so many other games companies out there to buy proxy models from or different systems to try out!
+alot of us (me included) already have tons of army(ies)/models we can use without the need to purchase anymore!
redeyed wrote:thats exactly it. Dont like it, vote with your wallet, spend less or quit altogether! Which is exactly what I have decided to do as of next weeks price rise.
so many other games companies out there to buy proxy models from or different systems to try out!
+alot of us (me included) already have tons of army(ies)/models we can use without the need to purchase anymore!
MrNurgle wrote:p.s. I also buy everything direct from GW
Why?
because I like to support my local Gamesworkshop and also I just generally like going to an actual shop and physically buying the product myself, then rush home excited with my recent purchase. Call me wierd if you must, that's just me TBH
by Games Workshop on Wednesday, May 18, 2011 at 10:35am
Just remember that we must remove any strong language and abusive users, in consideration of our youngest fans.
Sorry I had to laugh when I saw their Facebook Page. Please consider our youngest fans when our content is blood, guts, rotting bodies (nurgle), and hardcore violence common place in a theatre of war. On top of that they have a half naked dark elf wielding knives... how young are the players we're talking about?
I understand that vulgarity isn't necessary but I just get a laugh out of the comment. Its not helping their cause or proving their point by using that kind of language but I got a chuckle - I guess its just our culture.
MrNurgle wrote:I am still going to purchase gamesworkshop minis as the hobby makes me really happy and you cannot put a price on happiness
Hoping this is sarcasm, if not... silly person
Eh, I feel pretty well the same as MrNurgle. I mean, there's obviously a line somewhere but these latest hikes ain't it.
Probably because there is an American flag next to your name and not an Australian one.
Naturally, as I already stated:
Manchu wrote:
ancientsociety wrote:At this point, any sensible GW player should be re-evaluting whether or not you enjoy being treated like dirt by a company that runs on the money you spend.
Bit OTT for an American flag but I can see the Aussies, Kiwis, et alia, feeling this way.
puma wrote:As an aside: how many times have you changed your avatar today?
Twice. I had the GorkaMorka Ork for a long while now. I'm not totally sold on the current one yet. Still need to feel it out. There's just not any good Arbites art out there.
How can any of you be upset about the Web Guys response?
"They're just passing on the Buck?" What do you expect them to do? I'm quite sure they aren't the Board in disguise.
Like I said in my OOP thread, if you guys feel so strongly about this, still want to continue your GW games & armies but feel you are being priced out then you need to co-ordinate your efforts or else quit playing/buying new GW games & inform them that you are doing so. Set up a dedicated facebook group, a website & co-ordinate a series of sit in protests, leaflet & picket outside your local stores informing buyers of discount stores or whatever, contact all the major blogs, set up threads in every forum & organise a protest, or series of them, at GWHQ - make sure you invite or inform local and national business & wargame media to generate as much negative press as possible - buy a Share each and crash the next Board meeting with a fat xxxx page print out of all the negative posts people have made about GW & make yourselves be heard - keep sending a well-formed, polite letter expressing how you feel to the Board & White Dwarf with a stamped, self addressed envelope if you wish to get a response:
I would offer a more 'hardcore' Anthem but Rage Against the Machine has too much
I'm not saying I agree with you all but I do advocate & encourage such positive steps (not out of anger but out of love for the hobby) if that's the way some of you feel which is clearly the case. It's the only way it will make any difference, complaining on forums will get you nowhere and has gotten you nowhere quick for a long time now & frankly I'm getting sick of it - no wonder the post to view ratio is as it is. I bet many GW hobbyists who lurk and rarely post, if they've even registered, will be thinking
I sympathise with all the people getting screwed over in Australia and now Europe etc and you should actively campaign against this as hobbyists and customers if you want equal rights (prices) to people in the U.K. if you create a petition or the like I'll happily sign it.
In the meantime I'm with MrNurgle (respect) I've never had the need for more than 1,500pts of anything & even on £30-40 a month you can still enjoy the hobby (two armies a year) & have bigger battles by combining all your armies with your friends or gaming group & who knows you may even paint everything
If you act with the same passion/conviction as you display in these forums then I'm sure you will make an impact but no one will respond to barrages of profanity & hatred. I wish you all the best...
Now I've given you all these wonderful ideas please be kind enough to sign the petition to get Warhammer Quest re-made
MrNurgle wrote:It's just if you want to get back at gamesworkshop for rising prices, just buy less and they will soon realise they are selling less of their stocks
I would not count on that as they have been selling progressively less stuff for a number of years now and they still keep putting up their prices.
Once the stock has been sold, GW doesn't profit off of the resale of the stock. The stock's value is linked to the expected performance of the Company in the form of dividends or the growth of the entity. By owning a share of GW, you're relying on the fact that you expect that you're going to be able to see the Company grow.
Stock prices rise or fall based on market expectations which are usually derived from historical numbers. So if GW meets revenue/EBITDA/or net income expectations and the stock price will rise or fall because other people are either selling because they think the stock has hit its peak or buying shares because they think its an uphill ride. A pretty good example of how markets work is seen in trading spaces (Akroyd/Murphey). If I have GW shares (using $ only because I don't have the BPS symbol on my keyboard) and I want to sell at $30 but people only want to buy at $25 no sale will take place because I don't have a buyer. Conversly, if I want to sell at $25 and everyone is clamoring to buy at $30, I'll get $30 for it because that is the price people are willing to pay for it.
MrNurgle wrote:p.s. I also buy everything direct from GW
Why?
because I like to support my local Gamesworkshop and also I just generally like going to an actual shop and physically buying the product myself, then rush home excited with my recent purchase. Call me wierd if you must, that's just me TBH
You pose an interesting view-point, and others have congratulated you on your mature level of posting.......but something about your stance doesn't seem, "correct", somehow.
You say you're 16, and have basically funded your hobby on £25 a week. You spend your limited funds at a location which clearly offers you a reduced return on your investment. You do this on the stance that you wish to support your local games store.
All I can ask is why? Rather then commend you on your "maturity" levels, I rather see someone who perhaps needs to look at their situation with more clarity. GW will ultimately decide whether or not a store in a certain area is "worth" keeping open or not. Yes, it would seem that by shopping there, you help maintain a high level of sales and therefore, justify it remaining open....however, you need to consider that GW is now a global entity, and the decision to open, close or support stores will be based on more than its sales figures in relation to its geographic location. After all, a shop in location X can only sell so much product, and closing store in X may mean they can open another store somewhere else that will give them a greater return.
Which brings me to your monthly budget. No offense, but since when has squandering resources been a sign of maturity....yes, that's right, wasting cash! When you get older, and you have a car to run, a mortgage to pay, etc etc things like hobbies become a luxury, and every penny counts. Sure, I would happily spend top dollar at GW to "support" them, if I knew that when / if I lost my job they would house me, clothe me, feed me, etc etc....hell, I owuld regard the relationship as an investment in my own future....of course, they won't, in fact, beyond my credit card number, they could care less if a number 76 bus run me down tomorrow.
I acccept you have a different opinion to me, but it seems to me that you simply don't understand why people are so angry because you live a different life right now. It would be interesting to see how you would react to a similar situation in 20 years time.
Mr Nurgle has been nothing but understanding of other folk's posting. Something that cannot be said for your post. You questioned whether he is really being genuine, ripped into him for squandering his allowance (at 16) and then try to stretch the positive posts that he made into a larger agenda.
I think you need to step back, take a deep breath and look at what you're posting.
Balance wrote:Maybe he plays at his local GW a lot, so figures that paying a bit more is worth it for the social advantages?
Fair point, and no one would deny that this hobby is a social hobby, however, buying from Wayland et al. would still allow you to play at your local GW.
Delephont wrote:Fair point, and no one would deny that this hobby is a social hobby, however, buying from Wayland et al. would still allow you to play at your local GW.
It is much the same phenomenon as Brand Names*. Price is not the only factor in purchasing. If it was, far fewer people would ever drink bottled water.
Let him be for a few minutes more. They grow up, and grow up hard here.
On one hand, I can see where he's coming from, on the other, I see that he is missing the issue entirly. ( Of course, not having seen where GW was years before, and only what it has turned into over the past couple doesn't help.) I see that he simply doesn't have the same background information and been shafted hard enough to be noticed by him, yet.
If he is slow and steady, happy with his purchase, and not into it by buying to the tune of $100's and up to and including $1000's like some of us, then quite frankly WHY would he?
He's a portion of the demographic that GW WANTS, and thrives off of to the tune of 10 of them for 1 of the veterns, either way- GW is going to get paid. 1000 from one or 1000 from 5-10. Either way, They are going to make that target sale. Quite honestly, I like to see fresh incite from someone that hasn't been !@@#'d yet. It's refreshing, but honestly he doesn't have a dog in the fight on this issue.
Of course-
He hasn't mentioned personal interactions and results of being shafted, on numerous occasions, and the issues with the stores, he hasn't mentioned the issues with the change of venue of his local GW store, the increasingly costomer hostility that the stores have, and the fact that the stores are closing all around, and the ones that are open are reducing thier overhead in people commodity.
If he is supporting his LGS, then he is one of the mass players out there that isn't even on the radar, and doesn't have the background material to have an issue with this particular GW relations nightmere, and is probibly sitting there with a WTF look while he's reading through the vibe on the forums and probibly really not seeing it first hand, yet.
He's going to be the one to read that condisending pile of goo that they decided to pump up the masses on thier page about the "Upcoming announcement... thats already came and went, but is still coming out on 23 May. and say, Oh look at the shinies! I needs me some of those!
And thats fine. Someone is going to end up paying for all those shines, because it's not going to be the ones that are cranking it up right now over this issue while GW competly ignores reality.
When the chairs are being pulled away, hopefully he has one left at the end of the song.
pretre wrote:Mr Nurgle has been nothing but understanding of other folk's posting. Something that cannot be said for your post. You questioned whether he is really being genuine, ripped into him for squandering his allowance (at 16) and then try to stretch the positive posts that he made into a larger agenda.
I think you need to step back, take a deep breath and look at what you're posting.
Well, that's how you see it. I don't think I've attacked anyone, I've analyzed his post and responded. I'm not here to argue with people, or "rip" into people...what would be the point? However, Mr Nurgle has questioned (directly / indirectly) the negativity towards the latest situation, and posed his opinion and stance...I've simply posted my own, which happens to be a counter stance and opinion. However, rather than simply imply "I'm right and you're wrong", I've tried to explain why I disagree with his statements.
Not every counter "view point" is an invitation to a flame war.
Delephont wrote:Well, that's how you see it. I don't think I've attacked anyone, I've analyzed his post and responded. I'm not here to argue with people, or "rip" into people...what would be the point?
Indeed, what would be the point?
Which brings me to your monthly budget. No offense, but since when has squandering resources been a sign of maturity....yes, that's right, wasting cash! When you get older, and you have a car to run, a mortgage to pay, etc etc things like hobbies become a luxury, and every penny counts.
Whenever you start a sentence with 'No Offense', you are almost guaranteed to offend.
All I can ask is why? Rather then commend you on your "maturity" levels, I rather see someone who perhaps needs to look at their situation with more clarity.
Always nice to refer to someone's matruity in quotes. Nice.
I've tried to explain why I disagree with his statements.
By misconstruing his statements and applying a whole framework of 'Listen kid, it's a hard world and you'll learn' rather than accepting he has a valid view?
Not every counter "view point" is an invitation to a flame war.
Umm. Yeah, not sure we started a flame war, but you keep hoping.
Balance wrote:Maybe he plays at his local GW a lot, so figures that paying a bit more is worth it for the social advantages?
Fair point, and no one would deny that this hobby is a social hobby, however, buying from Wayland et al. would still allow you to play at your local GW.
But I would rather spend some extra quid walking down to my local store, be greeted by warm, friendly staff who sell me the product, give me painting tips and let me build it in store if not busy.
Balance wrote:Maybe he plays at his local GW a lot, so figures that paying a bit more is worth it for the social advantages?
Fair point, and no one would deny that this hobby is a social hobby, however, buying from Wayland et al. would still allow you to play at your local GW.
I've never played at a GW store. (Never had that one close.) However, I do make it a point to not rub it in when I'm taking advantage of a store's free services. My other expensive hobby is SCUBA, and I have a cheap regulator bag from a well-known internet vendor... Which I always leave in the car when I take my regulator into the shop for service. I don't have to (service is a pay transaction, after all) but it's polite. Similarly, I don't waste an hour of their time asking about stuff then buy it online... I buy online when I know what I want and it's cheaper.
For game stores, I'm almost 100% online these days other than occasional paint (and that's only because I don't have a good source for Vallejo colors in my part of Maryland) but when I did have a store I liked, I bought stuff from them as long as the price was reasonable because I got a lot of perks... Years ago I basically lived at one store 2-3 nights a week, and because I was a regular they were a lot looser with the food rules and much more willing to work with me on anything else I was interested in. I ordered on-line, occasionally, but mainly for things that were inconvenient for an indie store to get (like GW bits, at the time).
MrNurgle wrote:But I would rather spend some extra quid walking down to my local store, be greeted by warm, friendly staff who sell me the product, give me painting tips and let me build it in store if not busy.
Your experience is unique. I get the hard sell whenever I make the mistake of visiting a GW store, despite repeated requests to the contrary. Painting tips are a thing of the past in many places too; the one-man-store policy leaves the manager stuck behind the till, or trying to rope in the parents of a younger child.
Although I'm glad you enjoy your store experience, mine has been very different.
Grot 6 wrote:He hasn't mentioned personal interactions and results of being shafted, on numerous occasions, and the issues with the stores, he hasn't mentioned the issues with the change of venue of his local GW store, the increasingly costomer hostility that the stores have, and the fact that the stores are closing all around, and the ones that are open are reducing thier overhead in people commodity.
If he is supporting his LGS, then he is one of the mass players out there that isn't even on the radar, and doesn't have the background material to have an issue with this particular GW relations nightmere, and is probibly sitting there with a WTF look while he's reading through the vibe on the forums and probibly really not seeing it first hand, yet.
He's going to be the one to read that condisending pile of goo that they decided to pump up the masses on thier page about the "Upcoming announcement... thats already came and went, but is still coming out on 23 May. and say, Oh look at the shinies! I needs me some of those!
And thats fine. Someone is going to end up paying for all those shines, because it's not going to be the ones that are cranking it up right now over this issue while GW competly ignores reality.
When the chairs are being pulled away, hopefully he has one left at the end of the song.
I have seen it first hand, I have read many articles concerning the quality of the stores, pricing, financial reports ect ect....
I was excited at the re-casting because I could finally get some Raptors...until I saw the price...yes I was a little dissappointed, just like many a price rise I have experienced, but I realised I will just have to save a little longer and that GW will have to wait a little longer then before I give them my money, and if they do get into some serious debt because of lack of sales well it will serve them right.People cannot vent their anger out on the whole GW industry as there are plenty of excellent satff and workers within it. Also some stores are obviously going to be better than others. Fact. Just like all companies, you'll get sublime workers who work well with the public, and then you'll get ones who are just slackers and do have some hostility about them, possibly because they are not fufilled with the job they have.
erm...well, that's my point....there isn't any point....
pretre wrote:Whenever you start a sentence with 'No Offense', you are almost guaranteed to offend.
Not necessarily, I'll write that if I'm about to write something that is potentially going to offend, but that is not my intention. A lot is lost in translation when reading a post.
pretre wrote: Always nice to refer to someone's matruity in quotes. Nice.
I've used quotes because maturity isn't an absolute statement. There are many ideals on what constitutes being a mature person. For example, there are some people in their 60's who would qualify at being "mature" in terms of age, and yet, do not have a "mature" out look on life. I was calling into question his "mature" grasp on this particular situation, and not trying to make an overal statement about him as a person....so again, lost in translation
pretre wrote: By misconstruing his statements and applying a whole framework of 'Listen kid, it's a hard world and you'll learn' rather than accepting he has a valid view?
Well, ironically that's what you have done with my statement. I went to great length to repeat the key parts of his statement that I wanted to comment on, trying to be factual. I'm not 16, and I have a mortgage, car payments etc...if you don't have these things, you can't really comprehend what they mean. You may have an academic understanding, but that's not the same thing...so yeah, maybe there is a little "Hey kid" in there...I think that's justified in the context. It may be a valid view for you, but it clearly isn't for me...hence my counter view point.
pretre wrote:Umm. Yeah, not sure we started a flame war, but you keep hoping.
Personally no, I don't keep hoping. I think it simply cheapens open discussion. However, I assume your last comment was a joke.
Manchu wrote:I think it's mature of the lad to save up his allowance, stick to one army, set a goal, and achieve it over time.
I totally agree. However, I think it would also be wise to make best use of available funds, and offer loyalty where it will be appreciated and valued. Together all of those points = a winning formula.
Manchu wrote:I think it's mature of the lad to save up his allowance, stick to one army, set a goal, and achieve it over time.
I totally agree. However, I think it would also be wise to make best use of available funds, and offer loyalty where it will be appreciated and valued. Together all of those points = a winning formula.
I see your point. But I sympathize more with MrNurgly. For example, I've been impressed by PP's interaction with its fans/customers. But try as I might, I cannot get into their product lines. While PP may treat me better as a customer than GW, what does it profit me if I don't want their products? If MrNurgly wants Nurgle Marines, GW is the only game in town for him.
Samus_aran115 wrote:I wish people would just leave them alone.... If anything, you don't want a company to hate its customers...
They already hate us. There's no love for the hobby anymore, just a love of our money. In a strange kind of way, this is like the Horus Heresy. Only, Kirby is Horus, leading the Imperium down a dark path to destruction, and we are the Loyalists battling to save the Empire.
Balance wrote:Maybe he plays at his local GW a lot, so figures that paying a bit more is worth it for the social advantages?
Fair point, and no one would deny that this hobby is a social hobby, however, buying from Wayland et al. would still allow you to play at your local GW.
But I would rather spend some extra quid walking down to my local store, be greeted by warm, friendly staff who sell me the product, give me painting tips and let me build it in store if not busy.
Interesting.. I suppose you represent a chunk of the existing market thats not online..
I admire such patience.
Manchu wrote:I think it's mature of the lad to save up his allowance, stick to one army, set a goal, and achieve it over time.
I totally agree. However, I think it would also be wise to make best use of available funds, and offer loyalty where it will be appreciated and valued. Together all of those points = a winning formula.
Just a thought that struck me - since MrN won't be able to get a credit or debit card, or a Paypal account, until he's 18, that makes it more difficult for him to shop online instead of at the store, even if he wanted to use Wayland etc. Unless of course he has a helpful friend or family member to handle the transaction for him.
Manchu wrote:I think it's mature of the lad to save up his allowance, stick to one army, set a goal, and achieve it over time.
I totally agree. However, I think it would also be wise to make best use of available funds, and offer loyalty where it will be appreciated and valued. Together all of those points = a winning formula.
Just a thought that struck me - since MrN won't be able to get a credit or debit card, or a Paypal account, until he's 18, that makes it more difficult for him to shop online instead of at the store, even if he wanted to use Wayland etc. Unless of course he has a helpful friend or family member to handle the transaction for him.
Yes, plus there is a big Wayland Games Store in the area, but threre would be no point going there unless I was getting something big as transport costs would probably counteract the discount of the minis.
Lara wrote: Just a thought that struck me - since MrN won't be able to get a credit or debit card, or a Paypal account, until he's 18, that makes it more difficult for him to shop online instead of at the store, even if he wanted to use Wayland etc. Unless of course he has a helpful friend or family member to handle the transaction for him.
That's a very good point. I hadn't considered that fact. There are probably other ways of paying, but nothing beats the ease of a one click check out.
Anyway, if Mr Nurgle wants to shop in GW, it's his money, so fair enough. As long as he's happy, and content, I don't suppose it matters whether I think he should "bargain hunt".
Your underlying point has merit, though: wouldn't it be nice if GW treated its customers more like some other large miniatures companies do? Yes. Yes it really would.
I'm curious becuase this is the first time I've been active in a forum and a web community. This isn't the first time GW raised prices, by my recall, it's at least the thrid in the last five years.
What was the outcome of all the feedback the last time GW raised their prices and we made a big deal of it? Did they lower the prices a tad, wait till a later to raise their prices, did they take any action at all to acknowledge our concerns?
We're still sending letters on Friday correct? Doing a bit more than getting upset, attacking eachother, scrutinizing what little positive we've seen. I'm willing to do something and I hope I'm not the only one.
Manchu wrote:Your underlying point has merit, though: wouldn't it be nice if GW treated its customers more like some other large miniatures companies do? Yes. Yes it really would.
It would be nice if GW treated its customers a little more like customers, as opposed to a captive audience that has to shrug and put up with whatever GW's latest business direction is. Look, I am a pragmatist. GW is a publicly-traded company. It is in business to make money. But so was Ratners (I'm showing my age here...), and Gerald Ratner learned a pretty hard lesson about treating your customer base as if they have had a collective lobotomy.
GW know that a lot of their so-called "veteran" gamers have a fairly large chunk of time, money and effort invested in their existing armies, and that makes it tougher for them to walk away. I am sitting looking at my 'nids, half-built as they are, and I know that personally, in terms of the time I plan to spend playing and the enjoyment I intend to get out of doing so, I am looking for a fairly decent return on my investment in little plastic space bugs. If I walk away from the hobby now, I lose that opportunity.
But there are plenty of people who have diversity in their personal wargaming systems, and friends locally to play other gaming systems with. There is a point at which these people can, and will, walk away from GW. I don't think it's a great business decision for GW to keep looking for the point at which these customers will walk away. A guy who sells 10,000 points of Eldar isn't coming back to re-buy his way back into GW games in a hurry.
As for the web dudes, I have nothing but sympathy. I have had a variety of jobs where I was the front-line menial taking it in the ear about decisions of senior management, and truthfully, all you can say is "I'll pass it on." Might not be enough to keep those (legitimately) complaining about recent GW management decisions happy, but the web dudes are doing what they can whilst keeping their jobs.
As an Australian I think that if GW wants us here to put up and shut up for paying 200% retail the web guys can do the same about me complaining about it. I know its not the "web guys" fault but hey if it gets them complaining as well all the better and if they have to close the page better still. All that time and money down the shute just like their customers.
Manchu wrote:You know, for some folks a GW store IS their FLGS.
Gotta say, this is a pretty big oxymoron here ( an epigrammatic effect, by which contradictory terms are used in conjunction: for those who forgot/dont know the meaning)
To make a valid comment though, other than a laugh, I remember the one time I went into a GW store and had helpful sales reps, prices that weren't too steep (12 bucks for a metal minotaur), and a friendly atmosphere. I wish it were still like that. I also used to love White Dwarf for the hobby aspects: there was one issue that taught you how to make your own unique empire knights with special rules that are bought for additional points: stubborn, can't use others leadership values, better WS, etc. I miss things like this, and through it all I have still remained a loyal customer, even though these things don't exist anymore. It has come to the point though that I can't support the hobby anymore. If I still used Facebook I'd add a comment about my disappointment (in a grown up manner), but I also hear that the page has been locked. Sad, but hopefully it will encourage GW to listen to those of us who want to continue to love a game and a company that we did in the past: not turn it into the gaming-world's greatest pariah (pun not intended).
Red wrote:As an Australian I think that if GW wants us here to put up and shut up for paying 200% retail the web guys can do the same about me complaining about it. I know its not the "web guys" fault but hey if it gets them complaining as well all the better and if they have to close the page better still. All that time and money down the shute just like their customers.
Yeah, I personally have sympathy for the actual staff, but if I was in Aus/NZ I would be absolutely doing one over the international shipping thing and to Horus with GW and all its works. (And if the "adopt an aussie" scheme gets off the ground, I will be delighted to be an adopter)
I frequented the GW forums before they closed them, and I doubt their modus operandi has changed: they are unwilling to provide an official space for the customer base to complain. I will be genuinely surprised if the facebook page stays open much longer.
Someone smarter than me once said something along the lines of “Everything is worth what the consumer will pay for it.”
I don’t really understand all the GW hate.
If you don’t like their products, don’t buy them. If you don’t like their games or their rules don’t play them, or change them with your friends. I think that’s actually one of the first rules in both the BBB and the BRB.
Hating an Author because you don’t like the rules they write, or a sculptor because you don’t enjoy that person’s interpretation of a fantasy or space fantasy race is crazy. Hating a company because its sales and business practices are something you don’t agree with is fairly ridiculous.
I like games workshop because they release, for the most part, very high quality models. I might not enjoy the aesthetics of some of them, but I just don’t buy those.
Well, apparently their facebook page is still up-not blocked. If anyone is interested in what I left on there as a message, see the following:
I have to say with a heavy heart I am nearing my end of GW purchases. I only have a couple more boxes that I need to complete my Orc army and thankfully they are not being affected by the various price changes at the moment. However, with these new changes I am unable to financially supplement my current armies any further or start up any new ones. I will continue playing the game, but no new purchases can or will be made as long as the prices continue to rise at this level. If GamesWorkshop can lower their current prices, I will happily return as a loyal customer. But as things stand now, I feel I will be parting ways from the company that I have loved and supported for the past nine years of my life. This has been the breaking point for me. Good luck GamesWorkshop: I pray you come to your senses soon.
Tabitha wrote:Someone smarter than me once said something along the lines of “Everything is worth what the consumer will pay for it.”
I don’t really understand all the GW hate.
If you don’t like their products, don’t buy them. If you don’t like their games or their rules don’t play them, or change them with your friends.
(This is not necessarily how I feel by the way, but many do) What about option three? Where you love the products, love the fluff, and (to a point) enjoy the rules, but hate the companies marketing methods and business ideals.
I think, if it were simply a case of "this is crap", then people would simply do as you suggest. However, for many, there is a crisis of sorts, where walking away means leaving behind something they actually value.
Kinda like that girl you "love", but she treats you so bad....my god you'd love to leave her, you would love for another woman to turn up who is "better" than she is. Unfortunately, you're too smitten, and although you know the right thing to do is leave, the thought of being without her is far too painful.
The price hike annoys me but I will still end up buying models because I like doing it.
One thing to consider is that Petrol (or gas) in the UK is now £1.35 - £1.40 a litre! This makes the transport of goods quite expensive and so most companies are increasing the price of there stock to take this into account.
I run a car that does around 15-20mpg will I get rid of it becase fuel gets more expensive??? No because I like driving it, I like meeting new people at car shows and I like doing something different....I am not going to give up on 40k for the same reasons!
Absolutionis wrote:It's an attempt at passing the blame, but something may come of it. Just because the individuals managing the GW Facebook group "don’t have the power to act" doesn't mean they're not GW.
Either way, at least this is something. I expected GW to pull an Iran and ignore the complaints until people got tired.
Good point. Even though nothing solid will likely come from it, at least the uppers got a quick "hey guys, people are pretty pissed, Facebook is blowing up, take a look when you can", or something to that effect.
Samus_aran115 wrote:I wish people would just leave them alone.... If anything, you don't want a company to hate its customers...
What the ******************* are you talking about?
A company cant EXIST without its customers.
If only there isnt a handful of people defending GW , then they might have actually changed for the better for once.
On the facebook , i see GW's post translates as:
"we use facebook as a form to advertise , any comments not related to how much you love our cool product are going to be deleted as been Off Topic "
Mad4Minis wrote:
Absolutionis wrote:It's an attempt at passing the blame, but something may come of it. Just because the individuals managing the GW Facebook group "don’t have the power to act" doesn't mean they're not GW.
Either way, at least this is something. I expected GW to pull an Iran and ignore the complaints until people got tired.
Good point. Even though nothing solid will likely come from it, at least the uppers got a quick "hey guys, people are pretty pissed, Facebook is blowing up, take a look when you can", or something to that effect.
Absolutely , anyone familiar with chain of command in a company knows the news will reach the top 's ears. Unless the top have no clude what the heck a Facebook is or they dont care.
Samus_aran115 wrote:I wish people would just leave them alone.... If anything, you don't want a company to hate its customers...
What the ******************* are you talking about?
A company cant EXIST without its customers.
If only there isnt a handful of people defending GW , then they might have actually changed for the better for once.
On the facebook , i see GW's post translates as:
"we use facebook as a form to advertise , any comments not related to how much you love our cool product are going to be deleted as been Off Topic "
rs. Unless the top have no clude what the heck a Facebook is or they dont care.
"we use facebook as a form to advertise , any comments not related to how much you love our cool product are going to be deleted as been Off Topic "
What else would they use FB for? Every other company I see on FB is pure advertisement.
GW isn't your friend who wants to see pictures of your baby taking a poop and pictures of you drunk at the beach or your witty status updates about American Idol results... They want to sell you things.
The funny thing is these people who want change still give GW money by the fistful while saying their business model is flawed. Obviously not flawed enough to still get your cash. Obviously the customers exist and continue to exist. Being a moany pissy customer is still a customer and your money is just as good as anyone elses. The only way to hurt them is to vote with your wallet and to never buy any GW product, not from them, not from resellers, not from existing stock, not from ebay, not from anything as even if you buy it 3rd hand, your money enables someone to turn around and move more GW product.
Anything but 100% walking away hands down stop purchasing of GW products through all avenues is a worthless gesture with no real impact.
"we use facebook as a form to advertise , any comments not related to how much you love our cool product are going to be deleted as been Off Topic "
What else would they use FB for? Every other company I see on FB is pure advertisement.
GW isn't your friend who wants to see pictures of your baby taking a poop and pictures of you drunk at the beach or your witty status updates about American Idol results... They want to sell you things.
Thats IS my point , yet you see people NOT associating the FB OR the webdude as they are part of GW and wants people to "leave web dude alooooooooooooone" and not wanting other customers to voice their
opinions on this latest GW matter.
"we use facebook as a form to advertise , any comments not related to how much you love our cool product are going to be deleted as been Off Topic "
What else would they use FB for? Every other company I see on FB is pure advertisement.
GW isn't your friend who wants to see pictures of your baby taking a poop and pictures of you drunk at the beach or your witty status updates about American Idol results... They want to sell you things.
Thats IS my point , yet you see people NOT associating the FB OR the webdude as they are part of GW and wants people to "leave web dude alooooooooooooone" and not wanting other customers to voice their
opinions on this latest GW matter.
Customers don't have the right to a public venue to voice their ignorant or well-thought out opinions... They can do that elsewhere and GW can take down the posts... I see no reason they should allow internet trolls to wreck up the joint.
They have the right to purchase or not purchase.
The truth is they are all plastic-addicted crackheads who will still blindly purchase the same way they currently do regardless of price increases or shipping restrictions and just want to moan about it. If no one is gonna quit buying stuff, why should GW listen? People want their cake and to eat it too. Or everyone but them to boycott so they can get cheaper prices but never stop playing.
"we use facebook as a form to advertise , any comments not related to how much you love our cool product are going to be deleted as been Off Topic "
What else would they use FB for? Every other company I see on FB is pure advertisement.
GW isn't your friend who wants to see pictures of your baby taking a poop and pictures of you drunk at the beach or your witty status updates about American Idol results... They want to sell you things.
Thats IS my point , yet you see people NOT associating the FB OR the webdude as they are part of GW and wants people to "leave web dude alooooooooooooone" and not wanting other customers to voice their
opinions on this latest GW matter.
Customers don't have the right to a public venue to voice their ignorant or well-thought out opinions... They can do that elsewhere and GW can take down the posts... I see no reason they should allow internet trolls to wreck up the joint.
They have the right to purchase or not purchase.
The truth is they are all plastic-addicted crackheads who will still blindly purchase the same way they currently do regardless of price increases or shipping restrictions and just want to moan about it. If no one is gonna quit buying stuff, why should GW listen? People want their cake and to eat it too. Or everyone but them to boycott so they can get cheaper prices but never stop playing.
Im not saying GW DONT have the right to delete posts that are harmful to their business. Im saying the customers HAVE the right to voice their opinions for their dissatisfaction with GW.
my point is , GWFB is every bit as GW as their head office, im not going to treat GWFB as some sort of independent private fans which they are NOT.
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nkelsch wrote:The funny thing is these people who want change still give GW money by the fistful while saying their business model is flawed. Obviously not flawed enough to still get your cash. Obviously the customers exist and continue to exist. Being a moany pissy customer is still a customer and your money is just as good as anyone elses. The only way to hurt them is to vote with your wallet and to never buy any GW product, not from them, not from resellers, not from existing stock, not from ebay, not from anything as even if you buy it 3rd hand, your money enables someone to turn around and move more GW product.
Anything but 100% walking away hands down stop purchasing of GW products through all avenues is a worthless gesture with no real impact.
Gonna disagree you there especially the highlighted part.
Any company knows their products are constantly in need to be sold to new customer base. Having the current existing customers stop buying product will indeed hurt GW to an extent, certainly not 100%
Llets be realistic here , not having new customers base to replace the ones leaving WILL also hurt GW. Also , you ever wondered why GW sells so much Space Marine stuff?
Its not a coincidence that almost every new customers will infact collect SM when they start, before they get familiar enough to start a new army they like. Thats why GW is willing to put so much effort in
promoting SM as their flagship product , because it SELLS to new customers. Everything GW does points towards how much they value new customers , thats why so many vets are agitated.
Words travel fast , as news and experience passed / heard from others will very often effect a new potential customer.
Forum , will inform readers GW's past way of doing things.
FB posts will inform new possible GW customers to 2nd thoughts about choosing this company's game.
GWFB is every bit as GW as their head office, im not going to treat GWFB as some sort of independent private fans which they are NOT.
No one thought their Facebook page was independent from their office.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The facebook post that inspired 153 posts so far on Dakka only got 366 comments on facebook (as of now). That's something like 10 - 20 times the amount of comments GWFB notes usually get.
I think no matter what happens and how GW do something there's always going to be a mass uproar about it.... Its like government, you vote the guys in but a couple of weeks after they start the whole world hates them again, with GW market they have too many people to please as well as earning money for themselves, if they just pleased everyone, went bankrupt and shut down, everyone would start raving about how GW did a bad job as a company and ruined there hobby, its a lose lose situation but only one way makes them money which is what its all about Im afraid
Mantle wrote:I think no matter what happens and how GW do something there's always going to be a mass uproar about it.... Its like government, you vote the guys in but a couple of weeks after they start the whole world hates them again, with GW market they have too many people to please as well as earning money for themselves, if they just pleased everyone, went bankrupt and shut down, everyone would start raving about how GW did a bad job as a company and ruined there hobby, its a lose lose situation but only one way makes them money which is what its all about Im afraid
How do you explain Private Press then? they seem to be doing great and the customers are generally happy with their business model.
Customers don't have the right to a public venue to voice their ignorant or well-thought out opinions... They can do that elsewhere and GW can take down the posts... I see no reason they should allow internet trolls to wreck up the joint.
What?
GW chose to operate in the largest SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORM on the face of the earth: Facebook. So, yes, people do have a right to post there good/bad opinions their since GW didn't mark their pages "friends only".
If they chose to take down the posts then they risk further bad press, something which is really bad times for a company. That's reason enough.
Lastly, your definition of people sharing their opinion on a topic as "internet trolls" is a gross misrepresentation. Some will be little more than jerks, but most of the posts were genuine feelings.
Honestly, the best way is to simply not buy any Games Workshop product. If you purchase from a LFGS---purchase other lines instead to keep the guy in business.
If everyone---told everyone they knew that played 40k----to not purchase any GW product for----say two months---I dare say it might make a blip. So 1k people see the thread---tell 2 others---everyone followed that---that's 3k people. Say each would have spent 30 bucks in that time frame---that's 90,000 dollars. That's likely wishful thinking---but if enough people organized and simply didn't spend money---they would notice. However most people lack attention spans or discipline to conduct a buy freeze like that.
AgeOfEgos wrote:Honestly, the best way is to simply not buy any Games Workshop product. If you purchase from a LFGS---purchase other lines instead to keep the guy in business.
If everyone---told everyone they knew that played 40k----to not purchase any GW product for----say two months---I dare say it might make a blip. So 1k people see the thread---tell 2 others---everyone followed that---that's 3k people. Say each would have spent 30 bucks in that time frame---that's 90,000 dollars. That's likely wishful thinking---but if enough people organized and simply didn't spend money---they would notice. However most people lack attention spans or discipline to conduct a buy freeze like that.
Although I very much approve this, easier said than done
Several stores I know of pretty much only sell warhammer gaming wise, most stores only get a huge revenue from warhammer. Plus some people also just dont want to play dramatically different games or use models with different ascetics
Personally, I think this price hike is good news. I think the only thing that will change GW's marketing is competition. If their monopoly on wargames is broken, they will HAVE to market more effectively/competitively. Infinity couldn't have picked a better time to sponsor Beasts of War, and Miniwargaming has also vocalised an opportunity for Privateer Press to take up a market share. This price hike will sting now, but later I think it will come out in our favor.
I will not be surprised at all if P3 or any of the others increase their prices in line with GW.
Competition does not exist with this kind of 'unique' product, considering that there are really no other companies producing to the same quality with the same range... Being a luxury good, rational people would buy less from the company that does this, but because there is 'so much' desire for its particular product, and because of the afore mentioned 'uniqueness', there will be little change in the number of units sold.
I disagree, I just think Privateer Press/Infinity need more of a presence. And as to competitors raising their prices? To me, they ONLY reason I'd consider playing them is that they're cheaper. I think grabbing GW's business model would be...anit-progressive.
I would be forgiving of GW if their price increase also came with an explanation*.
*That assumes they are not doing it to gouge the prices. Reasonable answers could include price of material, transportation costs, costs of increased production, ect..
Kroothawk wrote:I think this was the only acknowledgment the web dudes dared. Others would just have deleted the posts or closed the thread or facebook page. Keep in mind that GW's internal atmosphere is very restrictive, with critique/feedback not encouraged and often leading to being fired.
thats comforting, i'm sure. no wonder no one can say anything to the gw morons. i've stopped buying because of price, quality and numbers in a box. airfix among others make tanks that look like tanks, and supposedly being 40,000 years in the future, where are the ray guns and hover tanks? no, gw makes the wrong scale ww1 tanks for sm, csm and ig. morons. vacuous morons.
also, if boycotting gw will get the message across, why not boycott them until they wake from their coma and see what they are doing to the customers..
i'll be dead one day, and before then, i'd like to play, not become some bitter, twisted individual that hates. but sadly, thanks to gw....
You know, to be honest, I don't believe any of it. I doubt that there are "web dudes," average Joes who are just trying to help. That post was a calculated response approved by senior management to try and appease the angry mob forming on Facebook.
WarOne wrote:I would be forgiving of GW if their price increase also came with an explanation*.
*That assumes they are not doing it to gouge the prices. Reasonable answers could include price of material, transportation costs, costs of increased production, ect..
an email i sent to gw a while back consisted of a few price related questions and one was - how do you work out your prices and why is a single model of standard troop size say £12 while another moel of similar size is only £4? the reply i got was ludicrous. 'we have to pay model makers, painters, rules writers, shop owners, drivers, etc.' probably the tea lady as well. they only need to make a master model, make the molds and cast it. obviously shipping and stores come into it, but painters? i paint my own stuff, thanks. and rules writers? grow up. the game is crap enough. i only used to collect and paint. not now though, gw can sit on it and swivel.
MrNurgle wrote:But I would rather spend some extra quid walking down to my local store, be greeted by warm, friendly staff who sell me the product, give me painting tips and let me build it in store if not busy.
Your experience is unique. I get the hard sell whenever I make the mistake of visiting a GW store, despite repeated requests to the contrary. Painting tips are a thing of the past in many places too; the one-man-store policy leaves the manager stuck behind the till, or trying to rope in the parents of a younger child.
Although I'm glad you enjoy your store experience, mine has been very different.
His experience isn't quite unique.
I love going shopping at my local GW store, which is odd for someone with social anxiety like myself. Normally smaller, more cramped stores are a nightmare for me, but the staff at my local GW are always friendly and willing to help me out. I've never had any sort of hassle with getting missing parts replaced. They don't push any products on me, and if I have questions about a particular unit or boxed set, they make the time to help out. They always ask if I need glue or paint or primer, which I usually don't, but I love that they ask, because I have forgotten before. I once mentioned my neglecting my paintwork in favor of videogames, and they mentioned that if I wanted to, I could come by the store and paint there. I've never met a surly or rude employee there in the eight or nine years I've been shopping there, and there are often multiple employees in the store on weekends, when the store is at its busiest.
I like the quality of Games Workshop's products, and even though they're quite pricey and I'm a bit silly about purchasing and starting new armies sometimes - ten different armies at between 1,000 and 6,000 points accumulated over nearly ten years, most trending toward the former - I have my habit under control these days. I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford their products and I like the games.
I certainly would prefer their prices be lower, and I definitely don't agree with a lot of their recent policies, but I enjoy their products. I started a game of Warhammer 40,000 tonight, and it was a lot of fun even though we only got to play turn one. (My regular opponent is a family member who does work, so during the week we get in a turn or two when we can.)
'we have to pay model makers, painters, rules writers, shop owners, drivers, etc.
model makers - duh..
painters - eavy metal guys...
rules writers - keeping themselves employed by writing garbage books
shop owners - duh..
drivers - shipping isnt cheep with increasing fuel prices ya' kno
etc. - tea lady as you've said, the fancy offices, the office parties, competitions, internet for surfing, video rentals, dividends, icecream, peanut butter...
'we have to pay model makers, painters, rules writers, shop owners, drivers, etc.
model makers - duh.. painters - eavy metal guys... rules writers - keeping themselves employed by writing garbage books shop owners - duh.. drivers - shipping isnt cheep with increasing fuel prices ya' kno etc. - tea lady as you've said, the fancy offices, the office parties, competitions, internet for surfing, video rentals, dividends, icecream, peanut butter...
yep, all those things and more. gw haven't a clue about costs.
on the point of shipping costs to the aussies, why cant gw open a factory there with a second set of molds? they could do this in all countries where they sell their stuff. they can certainly afford it, especially in light of yet more price increases... it doesn't take a genius, just a good human being to say 'i will listen' amateurs.
Yet again, the demands for palaces and statues grew, forcing further tithe rises. The people, already disgruntled, saw this increase as exorbitant and the population of many worlds across the Imperium rebelled against the rule of the Ecclesiarchy and refused to pay any tithes. Even Planetary Governors spoke out against the tithes and redirected the funds to their own purposes, although their pleas went unheard.
I concur.
Cool avatar by the way, where's it from?
I honestly don't remember. I picked it up off the Internet back in the nineties and have used it as an avatar a few times over the years. Ironically, I was eyeing off your avatar as well. I'm a huge Dredd/2000AD fan and the dollars I'll no longer be spending on GW will partly go to Wargames Foundry and Mongoose Publishing.
TheFirstBorn wrote:Anyone else noticed the sudden surge in flickr image links made by the web team in an attempt to remove the complaining threads...?
Yup, SilverMK2 called it back on the first page:
SilverMK2 wrote: ...I would bet anything there will be a whole flurry of posts by GW now to push it off the front page as well...
They haven't quite pushed it off the front page yet but it is certainly far enough down the page that one needs to scroll down a way to see it, meaning if you aren't looking for it, you would probably not know it was there (at least, with my browser and resolution anyway)
I say we don't stop the hijacking. Sure, the "webdudes" gave some sort of response, but obviously this is because the sheer volume of posts before was too much for them to simply delete them. That is my theory at least. Appease the peasants so they stop rioting because they cannot actually contain what is going on any other way. And I don't think they CAN follow through with what they said either, not if it continues at the rate it has. Maybe if GW keeps getting email complaints from staff about the way things are going on there, they will finally deign to come down and speak to the rabble!!
DraconicGuardian wrote:I say we don't stop the hijacking. Sure, the "webdudes" gave some sort of response, but obviously this is because the sheer volume of posts before was too much for them to simply delete them. That is my theory at least. Appease the peasants so they stop rioting because they cannot actually contain what is going on any other way. And I don't think they CAN follow through with what they said either, not if it continues at the rate it has. Maybe if GW keeps getting email complaints from staff about the way things are going on there, they will finally deign to come down and speak to the rabble!!
The way I see it, their Facebook page is advertisement, not a discussion area. They can and will delete anything that shows them in a negative light. If you want to discuss their failings you have to do it where they cannot moderate it themself like right here. Don't think for a minute that GW is not reading these posts on DakkaDakka. They might not act on them, but they will read them.
WarOne wrote:I would be forgiving of GW if their price increase also came with an explanation*.
*That assumes they are not doing it to gouge the prices. Reasonable answers could include price of material, transportation costs, costs of increased production, ect..
None of the above.
Just explained away as "the annual price rise" which it seems will continue in perpetuity.
The caveat falls on the (reasonable) grounds of expecting reason.
But this is GW in a week where they have totally gone off the rails.
I am beginning to wonder that if GW was an individual and not a corporation, they would have been sectioned by now under the Mental Health Act (1983)
They just seem to have suffered a breakdown.
or some kind of vegatative state from which nothing returns...
as for the cost of gw miniatures, i find it highly unlikely that we the customers will ever get our points across the vast chasm between gw management and us. out of touch usually applies to politicians, but it seems such an inadequate phrase to use on gw. brain dead would be a better description for these greedy, vacuous morons...
Kroothawk wrote:Keep in mind that GW's internal atmosphere is very restrictive, with critique/feedback not encouraged and often leading to being fired.
There is another company closely associated with GW licensing that closely resembles the remark Kroothawk made above.
But at least they have a place to allow consumers some modicum of feedback for their products other than relying on outside fora sources for it.
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Samus_aran115 wrote:I wish people would just leave them alone.... If anything, you don't want a company to hate its customers...
Who cares if they hate their customers? They have already made their disdain for their customer base quite clear many years ago.
It is the job of a business to cater to their customers needs. It is not the job of the consumer to worry about whether or not the company they patronize with their money hates them.
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Mohoc wrote:The way I see it, their Facebook page is advertisement, not a discussion area. They can and will delete anything that shows them in a negative light. If you want to discuss their failings you have to do it where they cannot moderate it themself like right here. Don't think for a minute that GW is not reading these posts on DakkaDakka. They might not act on them, but they will read them.
Quoted for absolute truth. Especially the bolded sentence.
I know of no game company that refrains from reading outside sources of feedback that they can glean for free.
AgeOfEgos wrote:Honestly, the best way is to simply not buy any Games Workshop product. If you purchase from a LFGS---purchase other lines instead to keep the guy in business.
If everyone---told everyone they knew that played 40k----to not purchase any GW product for----say two months---I dare say it might make a blip. So 1k people see the thread---tell 2 others---everyone followed that---that's 3k people. Say each would have spent 30 bucks in that time frame---that's 90,000 dollars. That's likely wishful thinking---but if enough people organized and simply didn't spend money---they would notice. However most people lack attention spans or discipline to conduct a buy freeze like that.
Gamesworkshop has got rid of the comment option on their stuff on Facebook, I think it may of been due to me recently having a conversation with somebody elses about Warmachine and how cool it looked on one of their posts and posting a link to Privateer press on their recent post
AgeOfEgos wrote:Honestly, the best way is to simply not buy any Games Workshop product. If you purchase from a LFGS---purchase other lines instead to keep the guy in business.
If everyone---told everyone they knew that played 40k----to not purchase any GW product for----say two months---I dare say it might make a blip. So 1k people see the thread---tell 2 others---everyone followed that---that's 3k people. Say each would have spent 30 bucks in that time frame---that's 90,000 dollars. That's likely wishful thinking---but if enough people organized and simply didn't spend money---they would notice. However most people lack attention spans or discipline to conduct a buy freeze like that.
No. Stupid Idea. I like Warhammer.
Warmachine is ugly.
I rest my case.
That's both subjective and has some logic faults... There's other games than Warmachine and Warhammer.
Henners91 wrote:In my opinion, Warmachine is ugly.
Fixed that for you.
vs
Naw dawg, it's fact.
Balance wrote:
Henners91 wrote:
AgeOfEgos wrote:Honestly, the best way is to simply not buy any Games Workshop product. If you purchase from a LFGS---purchase other lines instead to keep the guy in business.
If everyone---told everyone they knew that played 40k----to not purchase any GW product for----say two months---I dare say it might make a blip. So 1k people see the thread---tell 2 others---everyone followed that---that's 3k people. Say each would have spent 30 bucks in that time frame---that's 90,000 dollars. That's likely wishful thinking---but if enough people organized and simply didn't spend money---they would notice. However most people lack attention spans or discipline to conduct a buy freeze like that.
No. Stupid Idea. I like Warhammer.
Warmachine is ugly.
I rest my case.
That's both subjective and has some logic faults... There's other games than Warmachine and Warhammer.
Ohhh yeah! How silly of me... Well unfortunately nobody plays Flames of War.
Don't go telling me there're more than three wargames out there, lal.
AgeOfEgos wrote:Honestly, the best way is to simply not buy any Games Workshop product. If you purchase from a LFGS---purchase other lines instead to keep the guy in business.
If everyone---told everyone they knew that played 40k----to not purchase any GW product for----say two months---I dare say it might make a blip. So 1k people see the thread---tell 2 others---everyone followed that---that's 3k people. Say each would have spent 30 bucks in that time frame---that's 90,000 dollars. That's likely wishful thinking---but if enough people organized and simply didn't spend money---they would notice. However most people lack attention spans or discipline to conduct a buy freeze like that.
No. Stupid Idea. I like Warhammer.
Warmachine is horrendous, dog-gak ugly crap that I would never even consider buying. This is my opinion, by the way.
AgeOfEgos wrote:Honestly, the best way is to simply not buy any Games Workshop product. If you purchase from a LFGS---purchase other lines instead to keep the guy in business.
If everyone---told everyone they knew that played 40k----to not purchase any GW product for----say two months---I dare say it might make a blip. So 1k people see the thread---tell 2 others---everyone followed that---that's 3k people. Say each would have spent 30 bucks in that time frame---that's 90,000 dollars. That's likely wishful thinking---but if enough people organized and simply didn't spend money---they would notice. However most people lack attention spans or discipline to conduct a buy freeze like that.
No. Stupid Idea. I like Warhammer.
Warmachine is ugly.
I rest my case.
That's like saying, "I'll only buy Ford cars because I don't like Toyota. What about Malifaux, or Infinity, or Reaper, or mantic, or one of the other dozens of systems out there besides Privateer press and GW?
AgeOfEgos wrote:Honestly, the best way is to simply not buy any Games Workshop product. If you purchase from a LFGS---purchase other lines instead to keep the guy in business.
If everyone---told everyone they knew that played 40k----to not purchase any GW product for----say two months---I dare say it might make a blip. So 1k people see the thread---tell 2 others---everyone followed that---that's 3k people. Say each would have spent 30 bucks in that time frame---that's 90,000 dollars. That's likely wishful thinking---but if enough people organized and simply didn't spend money---they would notice. However most people lack attention spans or discipline to conduct a buy freeze like that.
No. Stupid Idea. I like Warhammer.
Warmachine is ugly.
I rest my case.
That's like saying, "I'll only buy Ford cars because I don't like Toyota. What about Malifaux, or Infinity, or Reaper, or mantic, or one of the other dozens of systems out there besides Privateer press and GW?
Last I'll say on the matter as Manchu's pointed out it's off-topic (sorry).
But err, the only time I've been exposed to (two of) those is at the Wargaming Society at my uni... and sorry, the following is pathetically small, I can't walk into a store anywhere and just play it and, frankly, the fluff isn't as cool. Combine that with what are likely metal minis, made to a lower standard and often revolving around little nerdy sub-genres that I don't really care for and you have the reason why I shan't consider heretical leanins such as considering small competitors of GW. Sorry.
Though perhaps when I am 50 I might get into Piratey wargames...
Oh and as for your analogy; if I'd lived in the '20s, then yeah, I'd probably have bought a Model-T rather than any other car
If you play game X, it would presumably have another player. That's how games grow. If everyone only played 'popular' games, no game would ever be popular.
I'm suprised their Facebook is still up, they had to close the old GW forums because of the sheer weight of hatred and bile and that was years ago when they were by comparison paragons of virtue......
Balance wrote:If you play game X, it would presumably have another player. That's how games grow. If everyone only played 'popular' games, no game would ever be popular.
Wow do you know those two, Kilkrazy? Or be able to get there numbers for, just so we know who it is that we have participating in this discussion?
Point taken, in a way. The car (or car company) over there always seems better then the car your stood next to.
Once heard something about the grass being greener metaphor or something.
My point and I think the point of many forum posters here is that sometimes that is true, and a price rise always makes that grass look that bit more green.
Balance wrote:If you play game X, it would presumably have another player. That's how games grow. If everyone only played 'popular' games, no game would ever be popular.
Damn you and your logic!
hmmm....
Where do I get those miniatures from? NICE PICTURE, by the way.
No Gordon Gekko, but its a nice pair of bookends.
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Samus_aran115 wrote:I wish people would just leave them alone.... If anything, you don't want a company to hate its customers...
I'm sorry, sarcasm doesn't translate well on the internet. I got a laugh out of this one though, thanks.
Henners91 wrote:In my opinion, Warmachine is ugly.
Fixed that for you.
vs
Naw dawg, it's fact.
Ya know, having been a GW player for a long time...I think you chose poor model choices for this argument: that PP model looks SO much better than a crappy space wolf terminator (My personal opinion that Space Wolves look like Gak). Can't stress enough that this is my opinion. I supported GW in the past, but I think that specific PP model looks a lot better than that GW model.
If you are going to compare and criticise sculptural works, you need to establish some frame of reference.
For example, the Orc Cheerleader is clearly a comedic piece which fits well with the Blood Bowl aesthetic and concept. It looks like a mediaeval Orc dressed as a Cheerleader. It is correct in its anatomical proportions. The casting is detailed and crisp. There is nothing objectively wrong with it as a piece of art.
Naturally you can like or dislike it, however there are clearly objective criteria by which its value can be judged.
Laughing Man wrote:Might as well actually compare studio photo to studio photo, don't you think?
Precisely what I was thinking. PP stuff really isn't that bad looking on the whole. There are crap models in their ranges, for sure, but there are those in GWs ranges also. And think about it, GW has been around a LOT longer and if you looked at GWs first stuff, it was FAR BELOW the quality of PP's first stuff. Keep this in mind. PP will only get better in time.
Right, but I don't want to wait 10 years for PP to match GW's current quality and flexibility. Heck, PP has already matched GW's prices, for predominantly uniform metal models compared to flexible plastics with interchangeable bits.
I picked a Terminator because I consider them the most 'similar' models to Jacks. That SW Termie was unfortunate enough to just be on the first page of google images
Jacks are just weirdly proportioned, bulky in places and yet rather fragile and flimsy in others... They're just ugly to look at. GW has obviously cranked out some rubbish but at least we don't have a whole game type revolving around Ork Cheerleaders (don't tell me BloodBowl does ) If I could remember my darn Warmachine Names I'd even cite the Jacks I hate the most (the religiousy 'uns?)
Cerebrium wrote:What has happened here is classic "Opinions on the internet" syndrome.
Wherein people state their (subjective) opinion as (objective) fact. Which it's not.
QFT Cerebrium.
Henner91 , i find that sculpt to be aesthetically suitable for a mecha used by religious fanatics.
So my view on it is has same value as yours. Hah! Dont be so desperate to defend GW by sidetracking this thread by bad mouthing Privateer Press Henners, they are innocent with the issue.
I appreciate the intent and goodwill of some of our overseas brothers, however, if you want to research and comment on Australian wages and our complaints of higher mark-ups for GW products… then please use the appropriate tables and not advertisement, marketing or statistical hype and propaganda. As you can see, the Government figures are based upon statistics without a thought for reality. While the reality is that most workers are well below advertised averages unless they work well above average overtime, or are management or highly paid executives… hence the blowout of the statistical average wage for the non-average worker.
The Governmental advertising hype for potential immigrants:
Average full-time earnings in Australia were $64,641 per annum in 2010. (According to the Bureau of Statistics.) If overtime and bonuses are included, earnings were $67,116 per annum. The average male wage (ordinary time earnings) in Australia is $69,233 per annum. With overtime, this rises to $69,997. The average female wage (ordinary time earnings) in Australia is $56,950 per annum. With overtime, this rises to $57,704. Australia's best-paid workers are miners, whose ordinary earnings average $103,111 a year. Next come professional, scientific and technical services workers who average $77,761 per annum. Retail workers average $48,703. The poorest wages are found in the accommodation and restaurant sector where full-time workers earn $46,306 on average.
The reality according to Australian Industry Awards: Most workers are at Level 2
!
Yeah, I'm in the dark here as well; what product decreased in price?
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