(CNN) - A frail man sits in chains inside a dank, cold prison cell. He has escaped death before but now realizes that his execution is drawing near.
“I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come,” the man –the Apostle Paul - says in the Bible's 2 Timothy. “I have fought the good fight. I have finished the race. I have kept the faith.”
The passage is one of the most dramatic scenes in the New Testament. Paul, the most prolific New Testament author, is saying goodbye from a Roman prison cell before being beheaded. His goodbye veers from loneliness to defiance and, finally, to joy.
There’s one just one problem - Paul didn’t write those words. In fact, virtually half the New Testament was written by impostors taking on the names of apostles like Paul. At least according to Bart D. Ehrman, a renowned biblical scholar, who makes the charges in his new book “Forged.”
“There were a lot of people in the ancient world who thought that lying could serve a greater good,” says Ehrman, an expert on ancient biblical manuscripts.In “Forged,” Ehrman claims that:
* At least 11 of the 27 New Testament books are forgeries.
* The New Testament books attributed to Jesus’ disciples could not have been written by them because they were illiterate.
* Many of the New Testament’s forgeries were manufactured by early Christian leaders trying to settle theological feuds.
Were Jesus’ disciples ‘illiterate peasants?'
Ehrman’s book, like many of his previous ones, is already generating backlash. Ben Witherington, a New Testament scholar, has written a lengthy online critique of “Forged.”
Witherington calls Ehrman’s book “Gullible Travels, for it reveals over and over again the willingness of people to believe even outrageous things.”
All of the New Testament books, with the exception of 2 Peter, can be traced back to a very small group of literate Christians, some of whom were eyewitnesses to the lives of Jesus and Paul, Witherington says.
“Forged” also underestimates the considerable role scribes played in transcribing documents during the earliest days of Christianity, Witherington says.
Even if Paul didn’t write the second book of Timothy, he would have dictated it to a scribe for posterity, he says.
“When you have a trusted colleague or co-worker who knows the mind of Paul, there was no problem in antiquity with that trusted co-worker hearing Paul’s last testimony in prison,” he says. “This is not forgery. This is the last will and testament of someone who is dying.”
Ehrman doesn’t confine his critique to Paul’s letters. He challenges the authenticity of the Gospels of Matthew, Mark and John. He says that none were written by Jesus' disciplies, citing two reasons.
He says none of the earliest gospels revealed the names of its authors, and that their current names were later added by scribes.
Ehrman also says that two of Jesus’ original disciples, John and Peter, could not have written the books attributed to them in the New Testament because they were illiterate.
“According to Acts 4:13, both Peter and his companion John, also a fisherman, were agrammatoi, a Greek word that literally means ‘unlettered,’ that is, ‘illiterate,’ ’’ he writes.
Will the real Paul stand up?
Ehrman reserves most of his scrutiny for the writings of Paul, which make up the bulk of the New Testament. He says that only about half of the New Testament letters attributed to Paul – 7 of 13 - were actually written by him.
Paul's remaining books are forgeries, Ehrman says. His proof: inconsistencies in the language, choice of words and blatant contradiction in doctrine.
For example, Ehrman says the book of Ephesians doesn’t conform to Paul’s distinctive Greek writing style. He says Paul wrote in short, pointed sentences while Ephesians is full of long Greek sentences (the opening sentence of thanksgiving in Ephesians unfurls a sentence that winds through 12 verses, he says).
“There’s nothing wrong with extremely long sentences in Greek; it just isn’t the way Paul wrote. It’s like Mark Twain and William Faulkner; they both wrote correctly, but you would never mistake the one for the other,” Ehrman writes.
The scholar also points to a famous passage in 1 Corinthians in which Paul is recorded as saying that women should be “silent” in churches and that “if they wish to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home.”
Only three chapters earlier, in the same book, Paul is urging women who pray and prophesy in church to cover their heads with veils, Ehrman says: “If they were allowed to speak in chapter 11, how could they be told not to speak in chapter 14?”
Why people forged
Forgers often did their work because they were trying to settle early church disputes, Ehrman says. The early church was embroiled in conflict - people argued over the treatment of women, leadership and relations between masters and slaves, he says.
“There was competition among different groups of Christians about what to believe and each of these groups wanted to have authority to back up their views,” he says. “If you were a nobody, you wouldn’t sign your own name to your treatise. You would sign Peter or John.”
So people claiming to be Peter and John - and all sorts of people who claimed to know Jesus - went into publishing overdrive. Ehrman estimates that there were about 100 forgeries created in the name of Jesus’ inner-circle during the first four centuries of the church.
Witherington concedes that fabrications and forgeries floated around the earliest Christian communities.
But he doesn’t accept the notion that Peter, for example, could not have been literate because he was a fisherman.
“Fisherman had to do business. Guess what? That involves writing, contracts and signed documents,” he said in an interview.
Witherington says people will gravitate toward Ehrman’s work because the media loves sensationalism.
“We live in a Jesus-haunted culture that’s biblically illiterate,” he says. “Almost anything can pass for historical information… A book liked ‘Forged’ can unsettle people who have no third or fourth opinions to draw upon.”
Ehrman, of course, has another point of view.
“Forged” will help people accept something that it took him a long time to accept, says the author, a former fundamentalist who is now an agnostic.
The New Testament wasn’t written by the finger of God, he says – it has human fingerprints all over its pages.
“I’m not saying people should throw it out or it’s not theologically fruitful,” Ehrman says. “I’m saying that by realizing it contains so many forgeries, it shows that it’s a very human book, down to the fact that some authors lied about who they were.”
Of course. I am sure CNN deeply researched, and after in depth peer review, came forward with this book review. I am sure no one has an alterior interest, including the agnostic author. I'm also sure no Dakka posters would stoop to take advantage to fire off cheap shots.
agnostic or not, Do you think that applying modern day methods of dectecting forgeries to the bible passages should show whether or not they are falsified?
The New Testament books attributed to Jesus’ disciples could not have been written by them because they were illiterate.
This isn't even new information. Christians who actually read the books have known this for a long time. Most of the works were written by others or possibly dictated and many of the letters of Paul are believed to have been dictated. No one even thinks the gospels were written by Jesus' disciples except people who don't pay attention or have never bothered looking it up (and I suppose super hard core religious fundamentalists).
Many of the New Testament’s forgeries were manufactured by early Christian leaders trying to settle theological feuds.
Theological feuding didn't start until after most of the documents in the NT have been dated. We'd got copies from the 2nd century before any major feuding began because the community was too small to start slapping each other over issues.
This Ben Witherington guy seems to know what he's talking about too, except for that being able to trace the books to their origins bit. Never heard of that before. Ehrman sounds like Dan Brown. A guy who likes to write inflamatory information (some of which apparently isn't even new information in this case) too sell books.
Given that the bible has been an actively edited and adopted work for its entire history (you think Conservepedia's attempt to write a 'correct' bible that suits their own world views is the first time that's ever happened) and that the old testament draws on stories that stretch pretty much all the way back to the dawn of civilization (the book of Job, IIRC, originated in Sumerian myth), the fact that parts of it contradict, or that all of the authors are not who they claimed to be is hardly a surprise.
Right off, I have to disagree with Ehrman's contention that since John and Peter supposition they were"unlettered", hence, illiterate. It's very likely they raised in the tradition to ready and study the Torah as children, so while they may not be formerly schooled like the Pharisees were, they most likely could read and write. Plus many of the apostles, even Paul, used scribes.
But the Bible is a real mess in regards to interpretation. Many parts are missing, or poorly translated. Ehrman's criticism of Pual's different writing styles does not take account of him either using different scribes, or more importantly writing in the style to a specific audience, using their idioms and culture in his words to relate to them. So he would speak one manner to a Hebrew audience, then another to Greeks, Romans, etc.
Brushfire wrote:Right off, I have to disagree with Ehrman's contention that since John and Peter supposition they were"unlettered", hence, illiterate. It's very likely they raised in the tradition to ready and study the Torah as children, so while they may not be formerly schooled like the Pharisees were, they most likely could read and write. Plus many of the apostles, even Paul, used scribes.
I forget the word, but it's a certain kind of Rabii (Jesus was one) but supposedly all the disciples were also of the same rank and one of the requirements for it was to be able to read and write. They may not have known Greek though and likely knew Aramaic instead. Paul of course wasn't one of Jesus' disciples.
Doomthumbs wrote:The guy does bring up a good point in that Acts 4:13 says that Peter and John are unschooled.
As in, they didn't know how to read or write.
Which is a problem since, well, they supposedly wrote 2 of the books in the New Testament.
Heres to hoping this is all over in... what, which doomsayer are we believing these days?
I could be wrong, but maybe they just dictated it to someone else to write down, which obviously means its not going to be 100% what they wanted to say.
I also vaguely remember hearing that they didn't write it at all, it was written later on after stories were passed on...
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Frazzled wrote:
Doomthumbs wrote:The guy does bring up a good point in that Acts 4:13 says that Peter and John are unschooled.
As in, they didn't know how to read or write.
Which is a problem since, well, they supposedly wrote 2 of the books in the New Testament.
Heres to hoping this is all over in... what, which doomsayer are we believing these days?
Frazzled wrote:
What they didn't have secretaries in 8 BC?
Sure they did! They were all over the place, in all different sections of the Mediterranean.
Unfortunately, none of them write about Jesus until about 600 years AD.
Also, "The Bible" (king james version) is 400 years old, this year.
Just saying that theres a lot of room for whaaaaaat in there.
Personally as an atheist I would suggest that all holy books/slates/rock carvings/etc are entirely man made with no divine inspiration or intervention.
What I would really love to see is the Vatican archives opened up to the world so we can see how religious works have been changed, dropped, adopted, emphasised, re-translated and so on through history. I choose the Vatican as they have existed for a good portion of the time Christianity has been around and they must have all sorts of documents stored.
Given the length of time, the number of translations, the amount of "politics" and the amount of material that is lifted pretty much word for word from other cultures and religions I think it is safe to say that the "bible" is almost nothing like the "original" collected works of the disciples, assuming that such a thing existed as a complete series of works.
Personally as an atheist I would suggest that all holy books/slates/rock carvings/etc are entirely man made with no divine inspiration or intervention.
You would be wrong.
What I would really love to see is the Vatican archives opened up to the world so we can see how religious works have been changed, dropped, adopted, emphasised, re-translated and so on through history. I choose the Vatican as they have existed for a good portion of the time Christianity has been around and they must have all sorts of documents stored.
Wussy, the Eastern Orthodox church is older. They've got all the cool alien artifacts and such. They just want you to think the Vatican has it.
Additionally, but speaking of dropping, I don't know about you but dropping a Bible on your foot can really hurt.
Doomthumbs wrote:The guy does bring up a good point in that Acts 4:13 says that Peter and John are unschooled.
As in, they didn't know how to read or write.
Which is a problem since, well, they supposedly wrote 2 of the books in the New Testament.
It's unlikely any of the NT books were written by the Apostles. John has traditionally been associated with the Gospel of John, the Epistles of John, and Revelation. Peter is associated with no NT book and it's highly unlikely John the Apostle wrote any of the books ascribed to him. John was a very common name (like it still is). John of Patmos wrote Revelation and John the Evangelist wrote the Epistles, and the Gospel of John has no known author. The book just has his name on it and lots of people assume he wrote it even though no evidence of his authorship exists.
Lots of Christians have hung onto traditional views of authorship that theological scholars have long known to be false, but the typical Christian doesn't even read the Bible, let alone know its origins. Ehrman is just being inflammatory.
What I would really love to see is the Vatican archives opened up to the world so we can see how religious works have been changed, dropped, adopted, emphasised, re-translated and so on through history. I choose the Vatican as they have existed for a good portion of the time Christianity has been around and they must have all sorts of documents stored.
You don't need to go to the Vatican to find that. There are Bibles still in existence from throughout history. Someone with enough time could probably track the evolution of entire books if they wanted. I'm unsure if anyone has ever tried.
I am confused by this, I thought it was somewhat common knowledge among scholars that:
1. As there was no print press the the common means of mass producing works of literature was to hand write copies (in this case usually by devout monks) but as such any variations could still have occured even with individuals with the best intentions.
2. The earliest 'copy' of new testement scripture was somewhere around 90 AD, the original scirptures where thought to be penned around 50 AD so a good 40 years worth of copying had elapsed.
3. As the various scriptures were canonized many versions of each book had to be 'weeded' out to find the one that was thought to be most in line with other known works of the authors and in addition many other books supposedly written by some of the same authors or people who claimed to know Jesus where left out because at the time those responsible for canonization didnt think the message fit with the rest of the scriptures.
Therefore, wasnt it already pretty much known that what we know today as 'the bible' was more or less a series of copies of copies that seemed to 'go well' together and there was no way to know whether they were really the original teachings but believers are okay with this because the collection was at least divinly inspired?
So this author says kind of the same things but it a bit more inflamatory way and CNN publishes it as news ..do i have the right or am i wrong?
2. The earliest 'copy' of new testement scripture was somewhere around 90 AD, the original scirptures where thought to be penned around 50 AD so a good 40 years worth of copying had elapsed.
Wussy, the Eastern Orthodox church is older. They've got all the cool alien artifacts and such. They just want you to think the Vatican has it.
But do they have such extensive archives?
Of course they do. They are hidden away and can only be accessed using the double secret decoder ring. Look real close the next time you see Putin shirtless. See that left nipple ring? There you go.
Additionally, but speaking of dropping, I don't know about you but dropping a Bible on your foot can really hurt.
Depends if it is on microfilm or on a USB stick or printed in large font
High falutin youngin. Back in my day we used thin lead sheets and were glad we had 'em.
I just can't wait for the church to open up the period of Jesus' life between the ages of 8 and 35 to writers, the way Lucas let writers have the timespace after the 3rd original movie.
Theres some possibilities for truly great works of literature there, and in 600 years, no one will know that we snuck in our own political bias.
2. The earliest 'copy' of new testement scripture was somewhere around 90 AD, the original scirptures where thought to be penned around 50 AD so a good 40 years worth of copying had elapsed.
The Crucifixion happened between 30-35 AD.
So if Matt Ward wrote it, that means Zombie Jebus and RoboPope Paul (who fell through a bubble in the warp) came back and broke the back of a bloodthirster and ripped its wings off, shouting Blood for the blood go...er ME! abouts AD 37 then?
2. The earliest 'copy' of new testement scripture was somewhere around 90 AD, the original scirptures where thought to be penned around 50 AD so a good 40 years worth of copying had elapsed.
The Crucifixion happened between 30-35 AD.
So if Matt Ward wrote it, that means Zombie Jebus and RoboPope Paul (who fell through a bubble in the warp) came back and broke the back of a bloodthirster and ripped its wings off, shouting Blood for the blood go...er ME! abouts AD 37 then?
Sounds about right. Horus then took his rightful place as the Anti-Christ somewhere around 54 and the Rapture happened, so the world's already ended and we're all just the figments of some random dude's imagination.
Which is why I said "Personally as an atheist..." not "Religion is a lie and you are all idiots for thinking the way you do".
High falutin youngin. Back in my day we used thin lead sheets and were glad we had 'em.
Was that to protect you from the fall out from the Dino/Mammal nuclear war?
No, that was later. You needed the lead sheets to protect you when the tyrannosaurs walked by. Sometime they would drop the coconuts they were eating (you know the whole I have girly arms thing) and you needed to protect youself, else you might get a concussion.
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purplefood wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
SilverMK2 wrote:
Frazzled wrote:You would be wrong.
And you would be stating your opinion.
Just as you did turkey jerky.
Except he said it was his opinion. You just flat out said he was wrong.
Which is fact. See how simple that was. Now lets get back to Paul's note to his gardner.
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LordofHats wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
LordofHats wrote:
2. The earliest 'copy' of new testement scripture was somewhere around 90 AD, the original scirptures where thought to be penned around 50 AD so a good 40 years worth of copying had elapsed.
The Crucifixion happened between 30-35 AD.
So if Matt Ward wrote it, that means Zombie Jebus and RoboPope Paul (who fell through a bubble in the warp) came back and broke the back of a bloodthirster and ripped its wings off, shouting Blood for the blood go...er ME! abouts AD 37 then?
Sounds about right. Horus then took his rightful place as the Anti-Christ somewhere around 54 and the Rapture happened, so the world's already ended and we're all just the figments of some random dude's imagination.
2. The earliest 'copy' of new testement scripture was somewhere around 90 AD, the original scirptures where thought to be penned around 50 AD so a good 40 years worth of copying had elapsed.
The Crucifixion happened between 30-35 AD.
So if Matt Ward wrote it, that means Zombie Jebus and RoboPope Paul (who fell through a bubble in the warp) came back and broke the back of a bloodthirster and ripped its wings off, shouting Blood for the blood go...er ME! abouts AD 37 then?
Sounds about right. Horus then took his rightful place as the Anti-Christ somewhere around 54 and the Rapture happened, so the world's already ended and we're all just the figments of some random dude's imagination.
You know were not real, someone is just playing the Sims.... And were all part of it
2 pages before the insults started to fly, I'm impressed...
Does it matter if a fairy tale has become some some miss guided folks faith? Matters not a jot to me as all, ALL organised religions are evil and self serving. God is nothing more than a figment of the metaly ill.
Besides, Lors of the Rings is more beliveable than that badly writen collection of old myths.
Ribon Fox wrote:2 pages before the insults started to fly, I'm impressed...
Does it matter if a fairy tale has become some some miss guided folks faith? Matters not a jot to me as all, ALL organised religions are evil and self serving. God is nothing more than a figment of the metaly ill.
Besides, Lors of the Rings is more beliveable than that badly writen collection of old myths.
Tell me of this Lors of the Rings you speak of. It wasn't written by Matt Ward was it? Please tell me they kept CS Goto away from it to.
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rodgers37 wrote:
LordofHats wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
LordofHats wrote:
2. The earliest 'copy' of new testement scripture was somewhere around 90 AD, the original scirptures where thought to be penned around 50 AD so a good 40 years worth of copying had elapsed.
The Crucifixion happened between 30-35 AD.
So if Matt Ward wrote it, that means Zombie Jebus and RoboPope Paul (who fell through a bubble in the warp) came back and broke the back of a bloodthirster and ripped its wings off, shouting Blood for the blood go...er ME! abouts AD 37 then?
Sounds about right. Horus then took his rightful place as the Anti-Christ somewhere around 54 and the Rapture happened, so the world's already ended and we're all just the figments of some random dude's imagination.
You know were not real, someone is just playing the Sims.... And were all part of it
The guy playing me really got screwed didn't he...
Ribon Fox wrote:2 pages before the insults started to fly, I'm impressed...
Does it matter if a fairy tale has become some some miss guided folks faith? Matters not a jot to me as all, ALL organised religions are evil and self serving. God is nothing more than a figment of the metaly ill.
Besides, Lors of the Rings is more beliveable than that badly writen collection of old myths.
Has anyone even posted anything serious in this thread?
As far as i can tell, thats the only insult so far..... Thanks for calling me mentally ill, i suppose i should get my self to a hospital and get my self checked out...
Ribon Fox wrote:Besides, Lors of the Rings is more beliveable than that badly writen collection of old myths.
Ironic you should say that since Lord of the Rings is filled with Christian metaphor
EDIT: I tried being serious, cause Theology actually interests me, but no one else wanted to talk about it so I resorted to making bad jokes (I have no shame saying I have no idea who Pete Haines is )
Ribon Fox wrote:2 pages before the insults started to fly, I'm impressed...
Does it matter if a fairy tale has become some some miss guided folks faith? Matters not a jot to me as all, ALL organised religions are evil and self serving. God is nothing more than a figment of the metaly ill.
Besides, Lors of the Rings is more beliveable than that badly writen collection of old myths.
Has anyone even posted anything serious in this thread?
As far as i can tell, thats the only insult so far..... Thanks for calling me mentally ill, i suppose i should get my self to a hospital and get my self checked out...
Well, as a plaguebearer of nurgle you might steer clear of hospitals. You never know what you might catch, and that whole plaguebearer things means you'll never get rid of it, like a bad rash, or maybe the US legal system.
Frazzled wrote:No, that was later. You needed the lead sheets to protect you when the tyrannosaurs walked by. Sometime they would drop the coconuts they were eating (you know the whole I have girly arms thing) and you needed to protect youself, else you might get a concussion.
I would not imagine lead has very good protective properties against t-rex guided coconut strikes
Also, thank you for reminding me about that fantastic creationist thread
Which is factually questionable given the empirical lack of evidence for the existance of anything that could be considered "divine intervention" in the formation of the "holy books" of Christianity or any other religion. See how simple that was. Now lets get back to Paul's note to his gardner.
Ribon Fox wrote:2 pages before the insults started to fly, I'm impressed...
Does it matter if a fairy tale has become some some miss guided folks faith? Matters not a jot to me as all, ALL organised religions are evil and self serving. God is nothing more than a figment of the metaly ill.
Besides, Lors of the Rings is more beliveable than that badly writen collection of old myths.
Has anyone even posted anything serious in this thread?
As far as i can tell, thats the only insult so far..... Thanks for calling me mentally ill, i suppose i should get my self to a hospital and get my self checked out...
Well, as a plaguebearer of nurgle you might steer clear of hospitals. You never know what you might catch, and that whole plaguebearer things means you'll never get rid of it, like a bad rash, or maybe the US legal system.
Yeah, your probably right. I'll just have to take Ribon Fox's word for it....
Frazzled wrote:Well, as a plaguebearer of nurgle you might steer clear of hospitals. You never know what you might catch, and that whole plaguebearer things means you'll never get rid of it, like a bad rash, or maybe the US legal system.
Ribon Fox wrote:Besides, Lors of the Rings is more beliveable than that badly writen collection of old myths.
Ironic you should say that since Lord of the Rings is filled with Christian metaphor
EDIT: I tried being serious, cause Theology actually interests me, but no one else wanted to talk about it so I resorted to making bad jokes (I have no shame saying I have no idea of Pete Haines is )
Ture it is, but, its better writen and Gandelf isn't portryed as the son of god, he is a Maina sim....ermmm, never mind
Ribon Fox wrote:Besides, Lors of the Rings is more beliveable than that badly writen collection of old myths.
Ironic you should say that since Lord of the Rings is filled with Christian metaphor
EDIT: I tried being serious, cause Theology actually interests me, but no one else wanted to talk about it so I resorted to making bad jokes (I have no shame saying I have no idea of Pete Haines is )
Ture it is, but, its better writen and Gandelf isn't portryed as the son of god, he is a Maina sim....ermmm, never mind
He does however appear to come back from the dead.... (or does come back from the dead, i'm not sure, haven't read the books yet, and i can't remember what he says in the film)
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LordofHats wrote:
EDIT: I tried being serious, cause Theology actually interests me, but no one else wanted to talk about it so I resorted to making bad jokes (I have no shame saying I have no idea who Pete Haines is )
The other thread (Hawkins one) is slightly more serious.
Although Frazzled, is of course laying down the law there as well
Frazzled wrote:Well, as a plaguebearer of nurgle you might steer clear of hospitals. You never know what you might catch, and that whole plaguebearer things means you'll never get rid of it, like a bad rash, or maybe the US legal system.
Hey, at least he is jovial
True dat. And now a read from Paul's phone call to the electric company:
"Heyeth thee, what giveth? Like all God's children I have brought to thee thine coinage, so that thouest may blessed me and bath me in soft light. Zbut thou hast spurned the Word of the Lord and demandeth 50 more drakhmas. The Lord hath spoken to me, and he chastened me to spread thee word unto thee and that word is to sucketh it and turnst on the power lest thouest be brought before a Higher Power on the 13th of August !"
rodgers37 wrote:Do you know the true story of Paul?
You Saul, the XO of the Galactica, before it turns out he was one of the Final Five and had a revalation on the road to Earth?
And some say former Pharisees can't write. HA!
Yeah, thats the truth. None of this nonsense of turning blind on the road to Damascus after persecuting Jesus' followers. What ever was Matt Ward thinking making that up for?
rodgers37 wrote:Yeah, thats the truth. None of this nonsense of turning blind on the road to Damascus after persecuting Jesus' followers. What ever was Matt Ward thinking making that up for?
Well, you know what they say makes you go blind...
... Staring into the sun. Obviously... *shifty eyes*
rodgers37 wrote:Yeah, thats the truth. None of this nonsense of turning blind on the road to Damascus after persecuting Jesus' followers. What ever was Matt Ward thinking making that up for?
Well, you know what they say makes you go blind...
... Staring into the sun. Obviously... *shifty eyes*
Thats leads onto another question....
Did he have big feet? 'cos you know what that means......
2. The earliest 'copy' of new testement scripture was somewhere around 90 AD, the original scirptures where thought to be penned around 50 AD so a good 40 years worth of copying had elapsed.
The Crucifixion happened between 30-35 AD.
Screen shot or it didnt happen
But in all seriousness of course if it happened it happened between 30-35 A.D if jesus is said to have died at 33 and we mark our calender starting on the date of his birth.
rodgers37 wrote:Thats leads onto another question....
Did he have big feet? 'cos you know what that means......
Edit: Not that its relevant at all...
On the contrary - bigger feet mean bigger sandals, and bigger sandals could mean more expensive sandals. How could he afford to go walking around all over the place without a proper job if he has to keep replacing expensive giant sandals all the time?!?
2. The earliest 'copy' of new testement scripture was somewhere around 90 AD, the original scirptures where thought to be penned around 50 AD so a good 40 years worth of copying had elapsed.
The Crucifixion happened between 30-35 AD.
Screen shot or it didnt happen
But in all seriousness of course if it happened it happened between 30-35 A.D if jesus is said to have died at 33 and we mark our calender starting on the date of his birth.
Yeah I think I misread your post That or I AM THAT BAD at math (which is also likely )
rodgers37 wrote:Thats leads onto another question....
Did he have big feet? 'cos you know what that means......
Edit: Not that its relevant at all...
On the contrary - bigger feet mean bigger sandals, and bigger sandals could mean more expensive sandals. How could he afford to go walking around all over the place without a proper job if he has to keep replacing expensive giant sandals all the time?!?
[/proof there is no god]
I think you have just won the battle for the Atheists. Unless Sir Frazzled has something to contest this?
rodgers37 wrote:Thats leads onto another question....
Did he have big feet? 'cos you know what that means......
Edit: Not that its relevant at all...
On the contrary - bigger feet mean bigger sandals, and bigger sandals could mean more expensive sandals. How could he afford to go walking around all over the place without a proper job if he has to keep replacing expensive giant sandals all the time?!?
[/proof there is no god]
or its proof Jesus wasn't a carpenter, but a really a shoe salesman!!! The world is turned upside down I say!
Oh I think thats confirmed, yes indeedy. Luckily there aren't any CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT noted in the Bible. Because if Jesus had a CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT believe you me, things would have gone differently.
rodgers37 wrote:This is all getting a bit to serious now!!!
And we still don't have confirmation on the rumours Matt Ward wrote Codex: Bible
I heard that after Jesus was crucified he was recast in resin and was much more expensive than original metal Jesus.
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Frazzled wrote:Oh I think thats confirmed, yes indeedy. Luckily there aren't any CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT noted in the Bible. Because if Jesus had a CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT believe you me, things would have gone differently.
For a start he would have been able to transport way more than 12 disciples in his CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT if he had a CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT to transport things in.
The author of the article quoted the author of Forged
"“There were a lot of people in the ancient world who thought that lying could serve a greater good,” says Ehrman, an expert on ancient biblical manuscripts"
There are a lot of people in the modern world who think that lying can serve a greater good, like politicians, special interest groups, Al Gore, News Channels, etc. Unfortunately, their greater good seems to be exactly that; their greater good. If anyone had read Procopius' Secret History, this scribe from the Byzantine Court offers up a bunch of accounts of heavy editing of the New Testament by the Emperor and his wife, who were basically a homicidal maniac and a nymphomaniac. Lamentably in my opinion, most people can't make out the difference between Churchianity and Chrisitianity. Christ's teachings are super easy; Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you and be excellent to each other.
rodgers37 wrote:This is all getting a bit to serious now!!!
And we still don't have confirmation on the rumours Matt Ward wrote Codex: Bible
I heard that after Jesus was crucified he was recast in resin and was much more expensive than original metal Jesus.
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Frazzled wrote:Oh I think thats confirmed, yes indeedy. Luckily there aren't any CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT noted in the Bible. Because if Jesus had a CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT believe you me, things would have gone differently.
For a start he would have been able to transport way more than 12 disciples in his CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT if he had a CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT to transport things in.
What happens if you don't type CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT in capital letters?
The resin thing makes sense, where his disciples re-sculpted at the same time? Or just left for a few months in the poor old metal castings....
Automatically Appended Next Post: And also, for clarification, was Dash of Pepper around back in the day? Did he beat Jesus?
rodgers37 wrote:This is all getting a bit to serious now!!!
And we still don't have confirmation on the rumours Matt Ward wrote Codex: Bible
I heard that after Jesus was crucified he was recast in resin and was much more expensive than original metal Jesus.
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Frazzled wrote:Oh I think thats confirmed, yes indeedy. Luckily there aren't any CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT noted in the Bible. Because if Jesus had a CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT believe you me, things would have gone differently.
For a start he would have been able to transport way more than 12 disciples in his CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT if he had a CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT to transport things in.
Indeed. With a CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT he could have transported the disciples, their friends, the Superfriends, and a recalcitrant Pontius Pilate, who, if truth be told was a swell guy and man about town. Woops got to go.
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rodgers37 wrote:
SilverMK2 wrote:
rodgers37 wrote:This is all getting a bit to serious now!!!
And we still don't have confirmation on the rumours Matt Ward wrote Codex: Bible
I heard that after Jesus was crucified he was recast in resin and was much more expensive than original metal Jesus.
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Frazzled wrote:Oh I think thats confirmed, yes indeedy. Luckily there aren't any CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT noted in the Bible. Because if Jesus had a CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT believe you me, things would have gone differently.
For a start he would have been able to transport way more than 12 disciples in his CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT if he had a CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT to transport things in.
What happens if you don't type CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT in capital letters?
The resin thing makes sense, where his disciples re-sculpted at the same time? Or just left for a few months in the poor old metal castings....
Automatically Appended Next Post: And also, for clarification, was Dash of Pepper around back in the day? Did he beat Jesus?
Well to be properly portrayed as in the thread discussing the merits of the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT, everything about the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT has to be capitalized. Its that awesome.
rodgers37 wrote:What happens if you don't type CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT in capital letters?
The first rule of CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT is you don't talk about CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT.
The resin thing makes sense, where his disciples re-sculpted at the same time? Or just left for a few months in the poor old metal castings....
No, they were released in plastic sets of 5, meaning you had to buy 3 packs and do some conversion work. Luckily you got 3 spare in case you messed up.
And also, for clarification, was Dash of Pepper around back in the day? Did he beat Jesus?
Dash and Jesus got into a rules argument which lead to Jesus storming off and saying he wasn't going to come back for the second round...
rodgers37 wrote:What happens if you don't type CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT in capital letters?
The first rule of CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT is you don't talk about CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT.
The resin thing makes sense, where his disciples re-sculpted at the same time? Or just left for a few months in the poor old metal castings....
No, they were released in plastic sets of 5, meaning you had to buy 3 packs and do some conversion work. Luckily you got 3 spare in case you messed up.
And also, for clarification, was Dash of Pepper around back in the day? Did he beat Jesus?
Dash and Jesus got into a rules argument which lead to Jesus storming off and saying he wasn't going to do the whole second round thing...
I nearly literally ROFL'd just now.... Had to grab the desk to keep myself on the chair....
Automatically Appended Next Post: Seriously for a second (just a second though...) could you imagine a world were GW ran everything........
Had the topic been traveling in the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT it would not have been derailed...as there's no way to derail the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT.
Ribon Fox wrote:It took a total of 4 pages to derail the topic to some thing soooo not related, that has to be a record or some thing.
I think it was de-railed from the start.
But Fitzz is obviously right, this thread chose the wrong form of transportation, had it been in the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT, none of this rubbish about the Bible would have even started. We could have gone straight to the funny bits with Boromir incorrectly pronouncing 'Mordor'
Ture but what if he was to mont a catapult in a CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT then ROLFSTOPMED in to Mordor while fuling said CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT with pages of the forged Bible, would that have worked? Would have made the films much shorter
Ribon Fox wrote:The Bible to Lord of the Rings to CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT......(looks more confused than normal)...How?....
Something to do with Matt Ward? Most things are his fault.... Don't see how this is any different.
But then again, i'm mentally ill.
Actually this one is fully our fault... Though the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT is totally worth it...
Do you really want to take the blame? What if Mr.Ward finds out someone else has been blamed for something other than him?
Well if you wanna get picky i suppose it would be down to a few devoted souls in a topic in 40k discussions... I like to think it was a team effort however...
I've had to start listening to Lonely Island to get some sensibility to my evening..... (I hope that sentence makes sense, i'm not sure if anything makes sense anymore....)
purplefood wrote:Well if you wanna get picky i suppose it would be down to a few devoted souls in a topic in 40k discussions...
I like to think it was a team effort however...
Transport your blame elsewhere... perhaps using some kind of TRANSPORTER... if only I could think of one you could use!
Ribon Fox wrote:Ture but what if he was to mont a catapult in a CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT then ROLFSTOPMED in to Mordor while fuling said CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT with pages of the forged Bible, would that have worked? Would have made the films much shorter
Well yeah, If only Tolkien knew about the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT when he started writing his books in the trenches....
purplefood wrote:Well if you wanna get picky i suppose it would be down to a few devoted souls in a topic in 40k discussions...
I like to think it was a team effort however...
Transport your blame elsewhere... perhaps using some kind of TRANSPORTER... if only I could think of one you could use!
Act now and get the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT!!!...for all your blame TRANSPORTING need.
purplefood wrote:Well if you wanna get picky i suppose it would be down to a few devoted souls in a topic in 40k discussions...
I like to think it was a team effort however...
Transport your blame elsewhere... perhaps using some kind of TRANSPORTER... if only I could think of one you could use!
You can BLAME THE VICTIM! more efficiently if you use a CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT to CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT yourself to where you can BLAME THE VICTIM! from the safety of your CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT.
rodgers37 wrote:Do we actually know he's in America? He might be in hiding in southern Mexico.... Planning on making a dash across the Ocean to Senegal....
He is in the state of Texas. Sitting on his lawn taking pot shots at anyone who comes close to the sacred green grass of home, letting slip the dogs of war
rodgers37 wrote:Do we actually know he's in America? He might be in hiding in southern Mexico.... Planning on making a dash across the Ocean to Senegal....
In an CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT?
I think we can assume thats the only safe way to cross the Ocean when you have the Feds on your tail.... Who could imagine using a Rhino or a chimera in such situation?
SilverMK2 wrote:He is in the state of Texas. Sitting on his lawn taking pot shots at anyone who comes close to the sacred green grass of home, letting slip the dogs of war
I didn't know Texas had grass...
I always thought it was just a pretty big desert with some cities...
rodgers37 wrote:P.S
He could also be planning on stopping at St Lucia for a sandwich....
No need to stop for a sandwich in your CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT!!! as each CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT!!! comes complete with it's own built in CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT!!! snack bar.
rodgers37 wrote:P.S
He could also be planning on stopping at St Lucia for a sandwich....
No need to stop for a sandwich in your CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT!!! as each CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT!!! comes complete with it's own built in CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT!!! snack bar.
Well, i never new that... Did Matt Ward write that into its rules?
rodgers37 wrote:P.S
He could also be planning on stopping at St Lucia for a sandwich....
No need to stop for a sandwich in your CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT!!! as each CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT!!! comes complete with it's own built in CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT!!! snack bar.
Well, i never new that... Did Matt Ward write that into its rules?
He was about to but Boromir nailed him with a Hobbit...
rodgers37 wrote:P.S
He could also be planning on stopping at St Lucia for a sandwich....
No need to stop for a sandwich in your CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT!!! as each CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT!!! comes complete with it's own built in CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT!!! snack bar.
Well, i never new that... Did Matt Ward write that into its rules?
He was about to but Boromir nailed him with a Hobbit...
He could've avoided that if he had a CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT
Back on the topic of our good friend Dash, didn't he once beat Frodo in a game of 40k, even though Frodo quite clearly bent the rules by using his 'magic ring' and moving the figures around without Dash seeing....
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FITZZ wrote:... And yes,Frazz is in Texas,which does have grass BTW...
So,it's about 4:35 PM in FrazzLand.
I want to move to America..... (Well, its probably a logical step in my plan to work for a Film Company, since UK doesn't have any competent ones Well it kind of does, but there not wonderful)
Automatically Appended Next Post: Another update....
Moving onto Bon Jovi now....
Should probably think about sleeping at some point, otherwise i have no chance of getting up in time for 9:00 lecture in the morning
rodgers37 wrote:Back on the topic of our good friend Dash, didn't he once beat Frodo in a game of 40k, even though Frodo quite clearly bent the rules by using his 'magic ring' and moving the figures around without Dash seeing....
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FITZZ wrote:... And yes,Frazz is in Texas,which does have grass BTW...
So,it's about 4:35 PM in FrazzLand.
I want to move to America..... (Well, its probably a logical step in my plan to work for a Film Company, since UK doesn't have any competent ones Well it kind of does, but there not wonderful)
Automatically Appended Next Post: Another update....
Moving onto Bon Jovi now....
Should probably think about sleeping at some point, otherwise i have no chance of getting up in time for 9:00 lecture in the morning
If you put part of your anatomy in a ring then you become invisible? Is this why I never see any gay couples anywhere?
rodgers37 wrote:Back on the topic of our good friend Dash, didn't he once beat Frodo in a game of 40k, even though Frodo quite clearly bent the rules by using his 'magic ring' and moving the figures around without Dash seeing....
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FITZZ wrote:... And yes,Frazz is in Texas,which does have grass BTW...
So,it's about 4:35 PM in FrazzLand.
I want to move to America..... (Well, its probably a logical step in my plan to work for a Film Company, since UK doesn't have any competent ones Well it kind of does, but there not wonderful)
Automatically Appended Next Post: Another update....
Moving onto Bon Jovi now....
Should probably think about sleeping at some point, otherwise i have no chance of getting up in time for 9:00 lecture in the morning
If you put part of your anatomy in a ring then you become invisible? Is this why I never see any gay couples anywhere?
/obligatory borderline PG-13 comment
Or it could be Stockport doesn't allow such actions?
rodgers37 wrote:P.S He could also be planning on stopping at St Lucia for a sandwich....
No need to stop for a sandwich in your CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT!!! as each CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT!!! comes complete with it's own built in CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT!!! snack bar.
Well, i never new that... Did Matt Ward write that into its rules?
He was about to but Boromir nailed him with a Hobbit...
He could've avoided that if he had a CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT
Fortunatly Boromir had contacted FW earlier and asked them to delay the rlease of the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT which was sadly impossible (because nothing can stop the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT) so using macguyver ingenuity and some string he managed to contruct a passable trebuchet capable of firing a full grown, doom-ring bearing hobbit into the roof of GWHQ with enough velocity to kill Matt Ward. nfortunately Matt Ward was resurected by forces unknown however he forgot all about the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT until a few days later when one ran over him, his house, and everyone he had ever known.
rodgers37 wrote:P.S
He could also be planning on stopping at St Lucia for a sandwich....
No need to stop for a sandwich in your CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT!!! as each CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT!!! comes complete with it's own built in CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT!!! snack bar.
Well, i never new that... Did Matt Ward write that into its rules?
He was about to but Boromir nailed him with a Hobbit...
He could've avoided that if he had a CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT
Fortunatly Boromir had contacted FW earlier and asked them to delay the rlease of the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT which was sadly impossible (because nothing can stop the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT) so using macguyver ingenuity and some string he managed to contruct a passable trebuchet capable of firing a full grown, doom-ring bearing hobbit into the roof of GWHQ with enough velocity to kill Matt Ward. nfortunately Matt Ward was resurected by forces unknown however he forgot all about the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT until a few days later when one ran over him, his house, and everyone he had ever known.
Ho hum another sensationalist thread jumping on badly researched theology:
In fact, virtually half the New Testament was written by impostors taking on the names of apostles like Paul. At least according to Bart D. Ehrman, a renowned biblical scholar, who makes the charges in his new book “Forged.”
“There were a lot of people in the ancient world who thought that lying could serve a greater good,” says Ehrman, an expert on ancient biblical manuscripts.In “Forged,” Ehrman claims that:
* At least 11 of the 27 New Testament books are forgeries.
* The New Testament books attributed to Jesus’ disciples could not have been written by them because they were illiterate. * Many of the New Testament’s forgeries were manufactured by early Christian leaders trying to settle theological feuds.
Paul may indeed have dictated some of his works, especially as he got older however it must be remembered that the Epistles are letters to individuals and groups, not works for publication so a clear writing style may well not be evident they were not written as scripture. It is understood that those who wrote scripture did not know they were doing so at the time, with the exception of the Pentateuch. All the books except that given to Moses were known to be ordinary works, probably the pick of many that were seen at the time to be touched by God and marked for posterity.
For example some of the Epistles note to other letters sent by Paul that did not survive for posterity.
Secondly the contradictions can be explained if you realise that the epistles were written to individuals groups with individual needs and are in accordance with the times. The times of s scripture should always be measured by the Wisdom of interpretation via the Holy Spirit who can see into a message for an ancient culture so seperate from our own and translate that into modern parlance.
I will stick to the above point in bold for now, this one at least needs knocking on the head.
The Gospels writers Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were cloe, either eye witnesses or interviewers of eye witnesses.
Matthew was the diciple of the same name, he was a tax collector, i.e at the very least a numerate official. I find it highly implausible that he would be illiterate. As a further clue is is also known as Levi, as Levi means priests and the priests were taught to read and write I see little plausible evidence to suggest that Matthew was illiterate.
Mark was a young follower of Jesus who witnesses some of the events at the time of the Passion. We dont know anything else about him, so noone can tell anything more. However he wrote a book, or dictated one to be written in his name. The Gospel of Mark was the first one recorded, and was in circulation within thirty years of Jesus death and resurrection, so it is unfair to claim Mark had nothing to do with it, and against what little evidence we have to suggest he was illiterate.
Luke was a Greek doctor, who accompanied Paul and also wrote the book of Acts. uilliterate greek personal doctor, I dont think so. Paul was an important man, who studied relgious law under Gamaliel a famous teacher and was a Roman citizemn of no small influence, he also was afflicted by an undisclosed illness. Would he hire a peronal doctor who was illiterate? I dont think so.
John was 'unlettered' this could mean that he simply had no education in rhetorial arts, something that marked a good education in those days. Understanding the context of the commentary in acts 4 when John is confirmed to be an uneducated man you must understand that he amazed those who were educated men irregardless. So while Peter and John may be been common folk with low educational standards this was obviously not where they ended up.
So was John who wrote the Gospel the uneducated fisherman Jesus first recruited or the confident young religious leader afterwards who had Jesus Christ as his personal trainer for three years. Could John have still been illiterate, maybe, but he was influential enough to have been able to dictate note if he was. Please remember John and Peter were people who amazed people with what they said and did, even the religious leaders. I could John chapter 1 clearly fitting the character of the man.
On this note uneducated by classical standards doesnt necessarily mean a complete ignorant savage, education in the ancient world was about rhetoric, classic literature, poetry, religion, debate and mathematics. Actual basic literacy doesn't come into it, someone came out of a real school back then, not just knowing how to write but how to debate, literacy of itself was far more common than in later years because of the prevelant secular scribe class the lack of a monastic class and the generally high standard of living in the Roman empire. Many medieval kings might not know how to write, but people in the ancient middle east were somewhat more cultured, even amongst the working class. In Peter and John were of 'peasant stock' it pays to note what type of peasant. Peter for example abandoned his boats to his servants when he left them to join Jesus, also after the crucifixion Peter needed to lie low and returned Galilee briefly to go back to fishing. John was with him because he was part of the same extended family. Where did Peter suddenly get a boat from? Fishing boats were and are important trade tools, yes they were working class but they were businessmen, with surviving businesses they could come back to. I see no reason to even begin to claim that Peter and John found literacy beyond them, either directly or indirectly to ther extent that what they wrote mst have been authored by someone else beyond their own control.
Ehrman doesn’t confine his critique to Paul’s letters. He challenges the authenticity of the Gospels of Matthew, Mark and John. He says that none were written by Jesus' disciplies, citing two reasons.
He says none of the earliest gospels revealed the names of its authors, and that their current names were later added by scribes.
We already knew this ... nothing new there..
Theological feuding didn't start until after most of the documents in the NT have been dated. We'd got copies from the 2nd century before any major feuding began because the community was too small to start slapping each other over issues.
a bit hard seeing as the 'new testament' wasn't officially decided on until later.
So in short you're all going to hell? Lets bring the burgers to cook!
But my CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT won't fit into my LITKO SPACE CORRIDORS AND INDUSTRIAL TOWERS because my T-rex ate too many coconuts and now he's just trying to BLAME THE VICTIM.
This is why I consider myself Agnostic instead of Catholic.
That, along with the fact that I've known too many Catholics in High School (no offense to any present) who just rubbed me the wrong way. None of them follow their religion.
LordofHats wrote:
Theological feuding didn't start until after most of the documents in the NT have been dated. We'd got copies from the 2nd century before any major feuding began because the community was too small to start slapping each other over issues.
See, we don't have copies of the NT, we have pieces of copies of some of the books that are in the NT. There are no complete copies of any single book, let alone the entire NT, dating before right around the First Council at Nicea.
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Frazzled wrote:Its like the New Testament and the Old Testament are different somehow...
One is less contradictory than the other?
Though I disagree with the initial premise that the OT is more contradictory than the NT. The OT is a narrative, the NT is not.
That said, considering the Bible as something which can be guilty of contradiction is only important if you're arguing for textual inerrance.
dogma, Slarg and Phototoxin, the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSUALT TRANSPORT followers are not please. This thread isn't really about the Bible, its about Matt Ward, CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT, Boromir, Hobbits, other LOTR related issues and to a lesser extent Frazzleds location.
rodgers37 wrote:Where has Frazzled gone, he can't have anything better to do at this time can he?
What time is it in America?
Sorry I was busy getting my ass kicked in EPIC and driving back home in my CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT. Luckily I called Matt Ward and YES I CAN IN FACT DEEPSTRIKE my CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT! He even gave me a draft of the new 6xth Edition New Testament. Wow, in this addition the Apostle Timothy is a hand to hand beast. Plus if you take him as a special character all your troops can arrive via deepstrik in CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORTs!
rodgers37 wrote:Where has Frazzled gone, he can't have anything better to do at this time can he?
What time is it in America?
Sorry I was busy getting my ass kicked in EPIC and driving back home in my CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT. Luckily I called Matt Ward and YES I CAN IN FACT DEEPSTRIKE my CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT! He even gave me a draft of the new 6xth Edition New Testament. Wow, in this addition the Apostle Timothy is a hand to hand beast. Plus if you take him as a special character all your troops can arrive via deepstrik in CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORTs!
SilverMK2 wrote:He is in the state of Texas. Sitting on his lawn taking pot shots at anyone who comes close to the sacred green grass of home, letting slip the dogs of war
Its a gift I have.
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purplefood wrote:
SilverMK2 wrote:He is in the state of Texas. Sitting on his lawn taking pot shots at anyone who comes close to the sacred green grass of home, letting slip the dogs of war
I didn't know Texas had grass...
I always thought it was just a pretty big desert with some cities...
And oil wells and hurricanes and jackalopes and Comanches. Thats why we drove pickups until we found out about the CRASSUS ARMORED TRANSPORT!
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purplefood wrote:
Avatar 720 wrote:
purplefood wrote:
rodgers37 wrote:
FITZZ wrote:
rodgers37 wrote:P.S
He could also be planning on stopping at St Lucia for a sandwich....
No need to stop for a sandwich in your CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT!!! as each CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT!!! comes complete with it's own built in CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT!!! snack bar.
Well, i never new that... Did Matt Ward write that into its rules?
He was about to but Boromir nailed him with a Hobbit...
He could've avoided that if he had a CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT
Fortunatly Boromir had contacted FW earlier and asked them to delay the rlease of the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT which was sadly impossible (because nothing can stop the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT) so using macguyver ingenuity and some string he managed to contruct a passable trebuchet capable of firing a full grown, doom-ring bearing hobbit into the roof of GWHQ with enough velocity to kill Matt Ward. nfortunately Matt Ward was resurected by forces unknown however he forgot all about the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT until a few days later when one ran over him, his house, and everyone he had ever known.
Yes! EVerything has happened before and shall happen again!
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Ketara wrote:
Oh thats choice.
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Orlanth wrote:....Okay
I stop to write a long post on topic and come back to find the thread has jumped two whole pages, just about all on an Forgeworld APC.
So I heck back to see the culprit...............................Frazzie.
I should have guessed.
Thats because this topic was not protected by the CRASSUS ARMORED TRANSPORT! No CRASSUS ARMORED TRANSPORT ever goes off track.
Cool post though, and thats about all we need on the serious front in way of rebuttal. So has spoken the great Matt Ward, hiding under the sponsons of his new CRASSUS ARMORED TRANSPORT.
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CT GAMER wrote:
Frazzled wrote: I'm also sure no Dakka posters would stoop to take advantage to fire off cheap shots.
Can we hold you to that for the remainder of the thread?
Hell no. For I have seen the glory of the coming of the CRASSUS ARMORED TRANSPORT.
Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of Matt Ward, I will fear no fluff revision, for my CRASSUS ARMORED TRANSPORT is with me. My CRASSUS ARMORED TRANSPORT it comforts me. It anoistest me with oil unguents.
Well I was going to continue the discussion regarding the CRASSUS ARMORED ASSAULT TRANSPORT and the forged books. I figured what the hell, just take out the forged books from the CRASSUS ARMORED ASSAULT TRANSPORT and replace them with Apocrypha books like The Book of Enoch, Gospel of Mary, etc. Too bad the CRASSUS ARMORED ASSAULT TRANSPORT is ruining the topic though.
Thats pretty blasphemous to not use its correct name... Now the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT will not be pleased, you better hope Boromir doesn't get involved....
rodgers37 wrote:Thats pretty blasphemous to not use its correct name... Now the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT will not be pleased, you better hope Boromir doesn't get involved....
Yeah I wouldn't want to piss off the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT. It would surely run me over. I will go back and add some assaultyness to my post. I suggest everyone else do the same.
However there could be an actual CRASSUS ARMOURED TRANSPORT. The guys just jump out and go to ground immediately instead of assaulting. I think it is also called a DEVILFISH.
Frazzled wrote:That exaplins why in the 6th Edition new Testament, Matthew wields a Christhammer and can fly.
Yeah, but look at how many points he costs! And his psychic powers are totally nerfed...
But he unlocks some unit as troops, so is totally OP...
He also gets CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT for every model for free.... Even Chuck Norris is scared of him!!!
Nay, the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT is Chuck Norris in transport form. Yay it maybe but a paile imatation of the awesomwness that is our lord Norris it is none the less a CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT.
No amount of coconuts will change that fact.
)
