hey guys, there is an event I found on Facebook, which is basically to boycott Games Workshop for a day. I, personally think it's a great idea, as this would send a clear message to Games Workshop to lower the prices, if they d[b]on't they will find there sales decrease as you guys show that this unescecary rise will not be tolerated. If you feel strgonyly enough about this, then attend the event! its simple, on that one day, don't go into games workshop and don't purchase anything! Please spread this information, and you can make a difference! :six
We decided to do it for one day, then tell Games Workshop we'd redo it for a couple of weeks, because of course, like you said that one day wouldn't make too much of an impact, but if we tell Games Workshop the numbers, it may create an impact, hopefully.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ok, its 04 July at 00:00 - 05 July at 00:00
Basically don't go into Games Workshop and buy anything, for one day, then if enough people have decided to join this capmpaign then we were going to increase it to a few weeks, to create a much larger impact.
Even if they got the message, they'd still be obligated to do what's good for their shareholders and not what a small percentage of whiny customers say.
Terrible idea. Has no impact. Entitled people who can't stop buying plasticcrack and think a 1 day boycott entitles them to getting all their wishes to come true!
Boycotting for a day in a business who expects customers to hibernate for months even years when their desired 'army' is not front and center, a 24 hour boycott does nothing to GW...
Just more people who want their cake and to eat it to. They are drug addicts who can't walk away.
I don't go into GW and don't buy anything most days. Forgive me for asking, but doesn't this just defer income by a day, any amount of times it happens? If the customers are still buying the items on other days, there's no loss for GW. Stating to them 'I'm not buying on this day' is tacitly saying that you will be buying on other days. No loss for them at all.
With less sales Games Workshops share price will fall, and if one puts aside the thoughts of, 'its never going to work, the numbers will be too small. Then it will work, and the share price will fall, after a few weeks, or more. Games Workshop have already suffered some hefty losses, which is bad for every company.
Ok, how about a month? A month with a large proportion of British customers taking a seat would lower their income, quite a bit, there shares are already quivering, and have been predicited to crash about now,
I just thought I would point out that July 4th falls on a Monday. Most GW stores in the USA are closed because they take Monday and Tuesday off. GW probably does not get daily sales figures from FLGS. Thus GW would probably be totally unaware of the boycott, with the exception of websales, and most people are probably not buying from them on the web given the finecast problems and the discounts other retailers offer.
Delaying your purchases is still giving GW money. And as we all know, the internet doesn't seem to reach GW's core market - 13 year old boys spending their parents money, meaning its impact is further reduced from the extremely minimal to pretty much negligible.
If you really want change, stop buying from GW, convince your friends to start different games and to stop from buying at GW as well.
libstermiles wrote:Ok, how about a month? A month with a large proportion of British customers taking a seat would lower their income, quite a bit, there shares are already quivering, and have been predicited to crash about now,
Sure, why not. Tell you what, I'm not gonna buy anything from GW in June. I can't say as I have a lot of faith in this working and not, perhaps, bankrupting GW if it does, but you can count on me not to buy anything from GW this June.
I have changed the event to the whole of July 1st-31st, this is a high point for Games Workshop. if everyone is in the frame of mind ' not enough will do it, it cant work.' then it won't, we need as many people to attend as possible.
What about online sales....so, people don't go into stores, but buy online instead....plus, I think this would have a way bigger impact if you could "somehow" persuade independant retailers to get involved and place no large orders for at least two weeks....
My point is this, for this to have any impact, there would have to be NO sales what-so-ever across all of their distribution portals....not just no attendance in stores.
Some people have boycotted GW for months (I've been one of them for a while). Others still have been doing that for years. What's one day? Or even one month for that matter?
It's not that "not enough people will do it", it's just that this kind of thing has been attempted before (last year or the year before in fact, probably both), and...GW didn't even flinch over it. In order to get GW to care, you'd have to somehow convince damn near the entire fanbase to quit making purchases/going into stores for a considerable length of time, and that really is impossible because some people don't care what GW does and keep buying anyway, some others love them and defend them to death no matter what they do, and lots and lots of people don't bother with online forums at all so you'll have a hard time even reaching them all.
Always remember although Games Workshop has a spanning sphere of influence they aren't worth a huge ammount. A month in summer is enough to catch anyones attention, so long as the people attending are determined enough
Automatically Appended Next Post: I see where you guys are coming from, something would have to be done about the independant retailers, the ones selling stock at %20 off.........
This is nearly as sad as the fools boycotting L4D2.
Seriously Guys. You dont like GW then simply leave permanently. Just boycotting them for a week, a month hell even a year will not do that much damage cause you fail to realize that GW has a bigger market then you lot (lil kids for example).
nevertellmetheodds wrote:Form a investment group, by gamers for games and buy a majority shareholding in GW?
Yeah, I'm, uh, setting one up now infact. Just send your money to my offshore bank account, and you'll get a official looking certificate for all the honestly genuine shares you now 'own.' Speak to my associate who appears to be smiling a little too much for details.
KnightOfTheRaven wrote:
Seriously Guys. You dont like GW then simply leave permanently. Just boycotting them for a week, a month hell even a year will not do that much damage cause you fail to realize that GW has a bigger market then you lot (lil kids for example).
Yep, I'm with you on that. I must admit, where it's valiant to seek change...I really believe the change needs to happen with the gamers as opposed to the companies.
Even if we rid the world of the Evil Empire that is GW, someone else will rise up to take their place, maybe PP, maybe Corvus Belli, perhaps even Cypher Studios who knows....I know people may think, those other companies would never go down the same road, but look at how GW was when it started out compared to now....growth and power will do that to you.
As long as gamers subscribe to the "One game to rule them all" theory, then there will always be a risk of this happening again.....
I've been hearing a lot about GWs shares being 'shaky' recently. I have an extraordinarily low level of knowledge when it comes to economics, but looking at this chart, it seems that for the last 3 years, GWs shares have been doing pretty damn well?
I really dislike most of the talked about policies that GW has rolled out recently, but it doesn't appear to be affecting their share price, or the value of the company as a whole.
While I applaud anyone who makes an effort to try and change something they are unhappy with (regardless of whether or not it will be successful) really, you are competing against the bullet that GW has already fired into it's own foot (the 'dum-dum' type of whatever the name is, that would make the foot explode) - their prices are becoming so high, that their 'core' target (younger teenagers) simply will not be able to buy into the hobby any more, or will find one of the increasing number of other leisure activities to throw their money at instead.
Add to this the atrocious quality control we are hearing about on the new finecast products. It doesn't matter that GW is good so far as exchange and return policies go - how many kids will have their mum bring them back a blister pack from GW, and then be knotting their eyebrows in consternation while they wonder if Corteaz should have only one hand and a giant bubble on his forehead? It will still mean a trip back to the store (if the kid decides to carry on) for an angry parent, not every miscast is going to be caught by staff members on the way out of the store.
Although it pains me to say it, I would argue that he companies own horrific decision making over the past month will have more of an impact on their sales than any organised action to boycott them could possibly have, not least the number of customers they will have lost by bearing their ass to the customers living in Australia, New Zealand and the like.
One month boycott= Black shirt saying "slow month guys but we'll make it up next month"
Three month boycott = Regional Manager chewing on blackshirt about low quarterly report.
Six month boycott = Regional Manager starting to worry as two quarters of falling profits are the beginning of a trend.
One year boycott = GW scratching their head wondering if Privateer Press is getting all of their money... and they cluelessly fire Mat Ward because there's only one "t" at the end of his name which is affecting sales!
a boycott cannot work if you're only doing it a day. The reason the boycott of the bus system worked for MLK Jr in the South was that it went for much longer than 1 day. It was several months. The Black Community took cabs driven by black drivers or walked. Unless you're going to make a permanent change, you're not going to make any meaningful impact.
There's no long term plan for GW, they've concentrated on large short term profits by raising prices and cutting production costs and improving efficiency. For a few years, sure, their share-holders will be happy, but in 5 years, they'll start to hemorrhage profits because even those with a large amount of disposable income who can thus afford to buy GW products will leave.
If there was an actual large scale boycott and they suffered, they would just inflate their prices a large amount to make up for it and rabid fanboys and tournament whores would still pay it and they would get thieir profits back. It's not about the shareholders it's about the top dogs making top dollar.
I have to agree that one day is very trivial. I havent bought anything direct from GW for over a year now and I think they dont really care. Another problem is it is really hard to collectively do something like this on an international scale. It is very possible there are hundreds of people out there who go to GW that never heard of dakka dakka and never use facebook and also never really knew other companies existed
WTF? Get a new hobby if you are that dismayed by GW that you have to do something like this....
I remember a few years ago when there was a nation wide attempt to have no one buy gas in a single day, the gas company was going to loose .02% profit if it actually succeeded.... People that participated filled up the day before and the gas company had a +.03 profit....So the attention brought by the boycott backfired and the gas company made money!
Turned out that all those indipendent gas & convenience stores were the ones that would have suffered (like 3% loss of business) due to the losses from no one coming and buying all those other goodies....
everyone's right in saying that won't work. Maybe if you tried getting as much signatures on a petition or a group message from as many people as possible it would have more effect?
If you have thousands of gamers all helping to pitch in their voices to say that GW prices are too high, I think it will be more effective than a one day boycott.
Besides, if you do keep boycotting GW without explicity telling them why, they will raise prices again then they will crash and go bankrupt. And then you can boycott all you want because the only place you're going to buy GW models is on ebay.
I haven't spent any money in a GW for 5-6 years, so I've basically done the work of 1825-2190 people already and all GW has done is increase prices and make inferior products, so if the same number of people (which is doubtful) did the same for 1 day, maybe GW would increase prices and just sell cotton buds, and they would still have screaming preteens spending there parents money in store.
difference made, none.
now if you got every single last perso on earth to not spend money in GW for 1 month, THEN GW might give a damn...by increasing prices further, releasing another god damn space marine codex and making matt ward head codex writer forever.
The idae is good...if you are the staff of Gw, as this"boycott" (or strike as this should be called) won't affect GW. As said already.
As strikes by staff who work for a company hurt the company, a one day strike by customers really doesnt mean anything. As the next day, said customers are still wanting something. day 1, no sales, day 2 oh look we selt twice the forcast amount..sweet.
A boycott should be untill they actually change what you are boycotting them for. So stop buying altogether would be the best way to go about it.
Don't get me wrong, I hate the way GW have been going for for years and price hike after price hike doesnt help. I don't complain much, just makes my free money goes to someone else or stays put in the old bank account.
I'm not going to defend some of GW's policies, but I am going to share with you all something that I hope will cool the simmering pot of rage that seems to be brewing here, and I openly admit, was me to just a few days ago.
The reason for the past few years' price hikes on our metal models has been due to an increased cost of tin, a large component in just about everything since the switch from lead has started to occur once we found out how bad it is for you. Computer parts that were once lead based are changing to tin and that has drastically increased the demand for tin, resulting in higher prices. To further this, an entire region of China that was producing vast amounts of tin was shut down a few years back due to illegal mining. Safety measures were being shrugged off with bribes which lead to a fire that collapsed a few mines and killed some 150-odd people. Compounding this, another large tin mine in the Philippians Islands (I think these ones at least) shut down an entire islands, again due to ignored security measures.
So, metal models prices have been skyrocketing as tin, large component of our models, has had its prices going up and up. This switch to resin, while a temporary increase of price, will halt continued price raising over the next few years. It's a kick to the gut now, but not a punch to the arm every 4 hours.
You know...I was going to comment that this idea will work about as well as the Facebook "No Gas Day" things I see all the time. And by that I mean not at all. This thought was based solely on reading the title of this thread in the forum.
Wow, this crap is getting so old and worn out. If you don't like the prices, leave GW. I left for all of 3rd edition and most of 4th and GW did just fine. It is what it is, they are a global business(not so global anymore...) and need to keep the lights on.
All this is really distracting to the content of the site. Dakka is essentially a fansite. What sense does it make to constantly have the members attack the very company you technically exist to support.(free speech, I get it, still distracting to the site IMO)
I get it, other games are discussed here. However, the majority of the content is GW. Is the first impression to new members that we want to convey is all the haterade drinking?
Majority of GW gamers unite & Boycott GW for several months to even a full a year...
GW goes through financial woes, delays new releases, no new models or updates scheduled, unemployment for some GW staff and hobby store employees, delivery companies profits go down due to boycott of GW and lack of deliveries, independent retailers suffer lack of sales, people bore of GW due to no new items or growth or life in hobby.......GW goes belly up by 2013....
No more GW Warhammer of 40k.....
All the (ex )GW gamers find a new(miniature) hobby...after all, there's 48 of them out there to choose from....
Months into it, they complain about that hobby being to expensive....
Byte wrote:Wow, this crap is getting so old and worn out. If you don't like the prices, leave GW. I left for all of 3rd edition and most of 4th and GW did just fine. It is what it is, they are a global business(not so global anymore...) and need to keep the lights on.
All this is really distracting to the content of the site. Dakka is essentially a fansite. What sense does it make to constantly have the members attack the very company you technically exist to support.(free speech, I get it, still distracting to the site IMO)
I get it, other games are discussed here. However, the majority of the content is GW. Is the first impression to new members that we want to convey is all the haterade drinking?
I guess it helps that I came over from Warseer. The complaining here seems very moderate by comparison.
here is a tip, use warhammer rules and buy alternative miniatures....saves you money and stops you whining.
What I don't get is that this is a hobby, if you cant accept the fact that its an expensive hobby DONT START IT. GW makes money on first time buyers who don't continue i.e they go in buy 1 starter set and never come back.
SO instead of boycotting every time a new customer comes into a GW store tell them GW is the most expensive hobby ever, you will loose an arm and a leg to it so you might as well not start...tell them they care more about profit then customers and do it in front of GW store staff and if the staff gives you lip tell them to F off and that you spent so much money on this game they owe you a fragging house and if he doesn't like what you said tell them to prove it otherwise.
I support the idea of a boycott but 1 day isnt going to get you anything or anywhere not to mention you need a great number of people to participate and im sorry to say this but despite all the people crying and complaining most of them are too apathetic to do anything so they continue to buy and whine.
However there is the possibility that if this does go somewhere more people will join. Just remember this isnt a civil rights movement or something nearly as important so you really have to work at this and show a huge amount of effort.
Me personally I dont buy from GW its too expensive and I dont have the extra cash to spend (college) though 22$+ USD for roughly one poorly manufactored resin model dosent appeal to me anyway
Stop buying GW merchandise...period. No one day boycott. Mine has been going on for 5 years now and I refuse to give the entity known as GW any money. I applaud the movement, but one day means nothing. Pick up a system from their competitors. If you have enough to keep playing 40k that's fine too. just don't buy from them.
I think that anyone and everyone that has a beef or rant about GW, or qualms, or concerns, or issues with prices & getting started, or reservations about this hobby, SHOULD stay away from GW stores & the hobby, sell off your minis, and get a new hobby....
That'll show GW!
& Give the rest of us gamers who enjoy the hobby a break!
libstermiles wrote:We decided to do it for one day, then tell Games Workshop we'd redo it for a couple of weeks, because of course, like you said that one day wouldn't make too much of an impact, but if we tell Games Workshop the numbers, it may create an impact, hopefully.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ok, its 04 July at 00:00 - 05 July at 00:00
Basically don't go into Games Workshop and buy anything, for one day, then if enough people have decided to join this capmpaign then we were going to increase it to a few weeks, to create a much larger impact.
Actually people should go into GW stores. Ask tons and tons of questions and then not buy anything. You're making the employees work, making GW pay employees but not buying anything. Not that this will really affect anything but to me it'd be kinda mocking to GW.
libstermiles wrote:Always remember although Games Workshop has a spanning sphere of influence they aren't worth a huge ammount. A month in summer is enough to catch anyones attention, so long as the people attending are determined enough
Automatically Appended Next Post: I see where you guys are coming from, something would have to be done about the independant retailers, the ones selling stock at %20 off.........
'Done about...'? Yeah, let's elaborate on that one. You offering me a month long vacation so I'm not around to order? Going to convince Maelstrom that instead of selling thousands in GW, you'll make it up to them by somehow? Businesses are set up to make money, I don't see how this plan of yours makes them money, so why should they go along.
Hell, I be Maelstrom and Wayland clink champagne glasses when GW raises prices. They know gamers will still buy models, but the higher the price goes the more likely they'll buy from a discounter. Price increases and neardrage are their bread and butter.
And if you do follow through with this, how about picking a date when GW one man shops, and US independents are actually open? July 4th was a date designed to fail in the first place. Doing something like this and failing is worse than doing nothing. It proves to GW they can sit back and not care.
SilverMK2 wrote:Isn't July the 4th a national holiday in America anyway? I assume all the shops are shut?
But even so, a single day is utterly pointless. If you want to make a statement, give up buying from them entirely.
True on all accounts.
Single Day Boycotts have no impact what so ever. Business look at income on a monthly level, not a daily. The only way this can work is if you have a loarge enough base, and you would have to boycott for several months. Remember most people don't purchase every day or even every week. Most of my friends will go a few months between purchases. And they are supporting GW.
Also the way GW is set up if you Boycott GW stores or online sales, then your base is either those in driving range of a GW store (Most in this country are not) or shop on line. The people would be hurt the most by this is the Indy retailers.
I'm no expert on this, but I worry that a significant boycott will shoot us (gamers) in the foot. GW aren't loyal to their customers, but shareholders aren't loyal to GW. What we don't want is for profits to plummet, shareholders to walk and GW to fail. A big enough boycott to make GW take notice is big enough to make the shareholders take notice. (And anyone schooled in economics can tell me if I'm wrong!)
Secondly, you aren't forced to buy GW minis. You need the rulebooks. From then on, you can buy minis from competitors. You can even make your own models. You can use cardboard cut outs in card stands (GW itself used to supply these for early editions), or plastic tokens.
With GW, you pay a premium for several things:
Convenience (their product range matches their rule sets) Official status (you can enter official tournaments)
Realism (tokens and card stands look crap)
Quality (their minis look nice, though judgment on Finecast is reserved)
Until the price exceeds what people are willing to pay for the above, GW won't drop them.
This isn't defending GW, by the way. I think they treat us, their customers, abysmally. I just think they have no motivation for changing when we continue to feed their coffers.
One day won't do anything. You need to get everyone you can to boycott for at least half a year-if not longer. One day means nothing to GW. Even just boycotting the month of June isn't enough. If you boycotted all summer...and everyone else did the same...we MIGHT see results. Instead of buying GW, we could all use the forums here and at bartertown to trade with other players-we all get new models and only pay the other person: GW doesn't see a dime of it.
misfit wrote:Actually people should go into GW stores. Ask tons and tons of questions and then not buy anything. You're making the employees work, making GW pay employees but not buying anything. Not that this will really affect anything but to me it'd be kinda mocking to GW.
I do that all the time. I think the store hates me by now and I feel sorry for the poor redshirts that have to put up with me
"Hey cool new TK"
"Yup want to pre order anything?"
"Nope just browsing"
Awkward shuffling of feet occurs
Petitions Im onboard with signing, but doing the single day boycott literally does nothing. They MIGHT see a drop on Monday, but on Tuesday they see a spike. The ONLY way a boycott like that would work is if you could pull that off for say an entire month or hell better yet a quarter. That would show a company your serious. 1 Day or even a week wouldnt do squat
libstermiles wrote:Ok, how about a month? A month with a large proportion of British customers taking a seat would lower their income, quite a bit, there shares are already quivering, and have been predicited to crash about now,
Wrong.
If you are dissatisfied with how GW treats its wallets (customers), then STOP buying any GW related products forever. Period. GW doesn't care about you like they did before they went public, and GW will continue to treat its supposed "hobbyists" like walking ATMs because you guys don't learn.
How about all GW players create an investment group, pool together their money, buy some shares, then we all go to the shareholders meeting and throw a fit until we are treated like customers and not money cattle?
mikhaila wrote:
And if you do follow through with this, how about picking a date when GW one man shops, and US independents are actually open? July 4th was a date designed to fail in the first place. Doing something like this and failing is worse than doing nothing. It proves to GW they can sit back and not care.
Even if they chose a date they were open, a one day boycott is less effective than standing in front of GW stores saying "Ni!" to anyone trying to enter but choosing a holiday is an order of magnitude greater fail. If you want to make a real effect, just make everyday a boycott GW day. Buy something else instead from whatever retailer you frequent.
DaNewBoy wrote:How about all GW players create an investment group, pool together their money, buy some shares, then we all go to the shareholders meeting and throw a fit until we are treated like customers and not money cattle?
EDIT: Spelling
In theory, this might not be such a bad idea: if everyone pitched in 5 bucks from the community (not walletbreaking; price equivalents for people not in the US) and we got a couple shares of stock (how much is it currently per share, whoever follows this?), we could have people go to shareholder meetings and make our concerns known. Someone eloquent could also draw up a (don't shoot me) declaration of independence against GW and list our complaints and have everyone involved sign it. This would take place at their shareholder meeting, with hard evidence that their "fans" are openly rebelling against them. If we own a portion (albeit a small one) of the company, they can't throw us out for making our complaints and feelings known. The key though, is to approach this topic as adults-not petulant children.
Best comment I've seen was the one about how GW players are being treated.( see below.)
My advice? Take the red pill, Neo. A better idea then the boycott for one day is to just put them away and "boycott" them for six monthsto a year.
Move on to something else.
Me? I'm through the phases of rejection, and am done with thier BS. We'll start talking about something other then " GW ate my baby!" Subject has been done to death, and it's well past conversational material.
"BOYCOTT" for one day doesn't work when GW owns the union.
"But the average GWombie is like the stupid girl who always, always, goes back to the abusive boyfriend. No matter how he beats her, no matter how gak he treats her, she will always go back for more and make excuses for him.
GW will succeed with this and the price of RandomCast will go up every year.
The abused GWombie will always find excuses why they go back.
Sad but true."- Rev Nice, over on Frothers.
Grot 6 wrote:"But the average GWombie is like the stupid girl who always, always, goes back to the abusive boyfriend. No matter how he beats her, no matter how gak he treats her, she will always go back for more and make excuses for him.
GW will succeed with this and the price of RandomCast will go up every year.
The abused GWombie will always find excuses why they go back.
Sad but true."- Rev Nice, over on Frothers.
No Grot 6, you don't understand. They do these things because they love us. It's just that they find it hard to control their passion, so sometimes they have to raise prices and place embargoes. You just don't understand our relationship.
Grot 6 wrote:"But the average GWombie is like the stupid girl who always, always, goes back to the abusive boyfriend. No matter how he beats her, no matter how gak he treats her, she will always go back for more and make excuses for him.
GW will succeed with this and the price of RandomCast will go up every year.
The abused GWombie will always find excuses why they go back.
Sad but true."- Rev Nice, over on Frothers.
No Grot 6, you don't understand. They do these things because they love us. It's just that they find it hard to control their passion, so sometimes they have to raise prices and place embargoes. You just don't understand our relationship.
DaNewBoy wrote:How about all GW players create an investment group, pool together their money, buy some shares, then we all go to the shareholders meeting and throw a fit until we are treated like customers and not money cattle?
EDIT: Spelling
In theory, this might not be such a bad idea: if everyone pitched in 5 bucks from the community (not walletbreaking; price equivalents for people not in the US) and we got a couple shares of stock (how much is it currently per share, whoever follows this?), we could have people go to shareholder meetings and make our concerns known. Someone eloquent could also draw up a (don't shoot me) declaration of independence against GW and list our complaints and have everyone involved sign it. This would take place at their shareholder meeting, with hard evidence that their "fans" are openly rebelling against them. If we own a portion (albeit a small one) of the company, they can't throw us out for making our complaints and feelings known. The key though, is to approach this topic as adults-not petulant children.
Sorry to steal your thunder NewBoy
No that's cool. Actually, I was thinking of buying out a significant portion (not with my meager income buy with the "F Gamesworkshop Investment Group") and then threatening to liquidate if our demands are not met/taken seriously. Basically, you have to get them at the wallet. Customers are not scarey because where one falls, another will bloom. Investors are another animal.
In this hobby, we're all addicted to our army men. If you buy full price, GW makes money. If you buy from a discounter, GW still makes money. If you buy cheapy old used stuff, well, GW sold them before so they still made money at some point.
If you boycott for 1 day, GW still makes money because all us nerds that couldn't buy for that one day, is just gonna buy whatever the wanted the day before, or the day after, or they'll totally ignore a boycott that won't work and buy on that day anyway.
mikhaila wrote: 'Done about...'? Yeah, let's elaborate on that one. You offering me a month long vacation so I'm not around to order? Going to convince Maelstrom that instead of selling thousands in GW, you'll make it up to them by somehow? Businesses are set up to make money, I don't see how this plan of yours makes them money, so why should they go along.
Hell, I bet Maelstrom and Wayland clink champagne glasses when GW raises prices. They know gamers will still buy models, but the higher the price goes the more likely they'll buy from a discounter. Price increases and neardrage are their bread and butter.
This is, for me, probably the BEST post I've read on this subject so far , so much truth in so few sentences!!
Sir, people are not gonna understand this, and it may well be lost in the deluge of denial and "nerdrage".....but rest assured that your voice has been heard by one Dakkite
edited to avoid confusion....this post was NOT intended as sarcasm.
It's still better than rolling over like a dog and accepting the kick we know is coming. I think Tim Allen said it best when parodied William Shatner:
"Never give up! Never surrender!" the borg/GW. It's worth the attempt to show them how upset we are-and it's not like I was suggesting everyone throw a HUGE chunk of change in-it's less than buying two paint-pots. How's that for sad?
misfit wrote:Actually people should go into GW stores. Ask tons and tons of questions and then not buy anything. You're making the employees work, making GW pay employees but not buying anything. Not that this will really affect anything but to me it'd be kinda mocking to GW.
I do that all the time. I think the store hates me by now and I feel sorry for the poor redshirts that have to put up with me
"Hey cool new TK"
"Yup want to pre order anything?"
"Nope just browsing"
Awkward shuffling of feet occurs
I actually think you'd cause more of a stir if you did what I've seen Costa coffee staff do in the local town, which is take a costa banner with 'where up this way' down and hang out near Neros.
So yeah, see if you can get Warmachine/Hordes or Infiinty stuff together, go hang outside your nearest GW and chat to folks as they go in.
"Want to hear about the wargamming Hobby sir, think you'll find much more than GW if you care to look."
I could see that driving staff to distraction, enough to inform someone one highier up the chain I'm sure.
kronk wrote:Some people will stop. I never stop to talk to people on the street unless they have girl scout cookies.
Very true, I usually pass off people shouting on the street as loonies unless they got cookie boxes to sell or are part of the salvation army. It'll all depend on the type of people who go to said stores I suppose
Im almost at that point now. I agreed with alot of what that guy was saying. I think Im at that point, where Ive played 40k for so long (about 12 or so years now) That I really dont want to just say well thats it, it was a nice run see ya! Ive invested so much time and money into playing 40k. But at the same time, they are doing things that just pisses me off immensely and Im asking myself why? Why am I still playing then?
Said many times one this thread, one day won't do it. One month (aka a reporting period that will be heavily scrutinized) would do something, but not one day. If you make it July 01 to July 31 then GW will listen.
If you enjoy the game and the fluff, then keep playing with your friends.
Just stop buying new stuff if you feel they have slighted you or treated you unfairly.
I won't stop playing. I have a great gaming group and really enjoy the game and the HH series. I'm not going to start that 2000 point DE army I was thinking about, though. And I wrote GW a letter to tell them why and how much money that just lost.
How about this, If you hate the prices and are just too addicted to quit buying, pay in all pennies. (only at physical gw stores please, oher gaming stores don't deserve this)
extra credit for mailing gw online a big box of pennies to pay for your order.
It won't hurt them a bit but at least they'll notice when stores keep telling hq about it.
Well lets be honest, a lot of people will be in this boycott, not because they know about or support the boycott but simply because they can't afford GW's models and therefore wouldn't be buying anything anyway, I know I for one probably will be one
Someone really should correct the title: the event is a month-long boycott, was changed to be so almost immediately after creation.
Now, I agree that even a month of boycotting isn't going to make a huge difference. But at least it gets people into the right mindset (the "I'm a dissatisfied customer" one), which will hopefully promote further action by said dissatisfied customers, such as letter-wrting, petrol-bombing and quitting Games-Workshop products altogether, all of which are likely to have a more significant impact. So support the boycott, and vivre la revolution
If you propose a one day boycott, you are helpingGW, because someone who wants to do something might be foolish enough to put his support behind your idea instead of one that might possibly work.
If you're going to boycott GW either do it silently or do it right. You must not buy GW products until they see the light, even if this means you never buy a GW product ever again.
Dais wrote:How about this, If you hate the prices and are just too addicted to quit buying, pay in all pennies. (only at physical gw stores please, oher gaming stores don't deserve this)
extra credit for mailing gw online a big box of pennies to pay for your order.
Guidelines are guidelines, and I can absolutely guarantee you that most GW shop staff have had no training on this, and will therefore not know they are able to refuse payments in such small denominations (As the royal mint themselves put it: "Both parties are free to agree to accept any form of payment whether legal tender or otherwise according to their wishes." - agreement through ignorance of the alternative is agreement nonetheless)
However, there's still an awful lot of scope within those guidelines for mischief. For example: Buying everything one transaction at a time. Want 5 paints? 5 transactions, each of which can be paid in 5ps. Want a paintbrush? that's another transaction, and another bunch of 5ps
As for the boycott, I haven't bought direct from GW in about 6 years. Everything I need I can get second-hand or through discount retailers, so I suppose in a way I'll be joining this, in the sense that I won't be altering my behavior to not boycott GW
krazynadechukr wrote:I think that anyone and everyone that has a beef or rant about GW, or qualms, or concerns, or issues with prices & getting started, or reservations about this hobby, SHOULD stay away from GW stores & the hobby, sell off your minis, and get a new hobby....
Sigh.....
For the umpteenth time, GW is NOT "the hobby" - they are one, pretty damn large, company within the wargaming hobby. No more, no less.
doctorludo wrote:With GW, you pay a premium for several things:
Convenience (their product range matches their rule sets)
There are several Tyranid, Space Wolf, Dark Eldar, etc players who would like to disagree with you.....
Grimtuff wrote:
FalkorsRaiders wrote:I think I will boycott GW for all of June and July. Need to save up the money for my Necrons in August.
I think someone was trying to make a funny, Grim....
krazynadechukr wrote:I think that anyone and everyone that has a beef or rant about GW, or qualms, or concerns, or issues with prices & getting started, or reservations about this hobby, SHOULD stay away from GW stores & the hobby, sell off your minis, and get a new hobby....
That'll show GW!
& Give the rest of us gamers who enjoy the hobby a break!
And for that, I thank and support you!
Now get going TODAY!
This is the sort of arrogance that makes it easy for me to quit "the Hobby," and glad that none of my local game shops are official GW stores. GW never was or will be the only wargame company on the market. Sure, I'll sell off my GW models. I've still got my flames of war and Malifaux models to play with.
On-topic, a boycott of any definite length of time is pointless. Unless you can convince the entire fanbase to stop buying, it will not do anything.
For the umpteenth time, GW is NOT "the hobby" - they are one, pretty damn large, company within the wargaming hobby. No more, no less.
What?
Sigh....
Okay, let me break it down better for you since you want to get sooooo technical buddy.......
For those in the miniature wargame hobby that participate in Games Workshop Warhammer 40k miniature game system, that are unhappy with the rules, prices, changes, etc... Go find another miniature game that is put out by another miniature wargame company that fits your budget and personal gaming needs that you are satisfied with....
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Guildsman wrote:
krazynadechukr wrote:I think that anyone and everyone that has a beef or rant about GW, or qualms, or concerns, or issues with prices & getting started, or reservations about this hobby, SHOULD stay away from GW stores & the hobby, sell off your minis, and get a new hobby....
That'll show GW!
& Give the rest of us gamers who enjoy the hobby a break!
And for that, I thank and support you!
Now get going TODAY!
This is the sort of arrogance that makes it easy for me to quit "the Hobby," and glad that none of my local game shops are official GW stores. GW never was or will be the only wargame company on the market. Sure, I'll sell off my GW models. I've still got my flames of war and Malifaux models to play with.
On-topic, a boycott of any definite length of time is pointless. Unless you can convince the entire fanbase to stop buying, it will not do anything.
Guildsman wrote:On-topic, a boycott of any definite length of time is pointless. Unless you can convince the entire fanbase to stop buying, it will not do anything.
That is obviously untrue. You don't need to reduce GW's revenue to 0 to make a boycott successful. You don't even need to reduce their revenue until it equals costs (i.e. zero profit). All you have to do is reduce their revenue enough that doing bad things is less profitable than not doing bad things.
You know what will work? Maybe, if everyone buys as many models now as they can, GW will lower prices. Why would this work? If we all buy now, we won't have the money later, leading to them decreasing the costs so their entire broke fan base can buy more stuff! who knows, we may get it to cost half the current prices in a month!!!
Business reports show that GW sells about 10% less products each year for several years, which is a massive boycott by customers. GW doesn't care, shareholders don't care.
SlaveToDorkness wrote:Even if they got the message, they'd still be obligated to do what's good for their shareholders and not what a small percentage of whiny customers say.
See above: Sadly GW management is not oblgated to do what is good for the shareholders. They do everything to hurt the shareholders for years (except this year where they get a dividend), but shareholders are fine with being hurt for some unknown reason.
Guildsman wrote:On-topic, a boycott of any definite length of time is pointless. Unless you can convince the entire fanbase to stop buying, it will not do anything.
That is obviously untrue. You don't need to reduce GW's revenue to 0 to make a boycott successful. You don't even need to reduce their revenue until it equals costs (i.e. zero profit). All you have to do is reduce their revenue enough that doing bad things is less profitable than not doing bad things.
Actually if GW themselves know of the intended length, they'll simply wait it out until the day has passed as then they can plan to compensate for the lost profits during this time. If they don't know when the boycott will end, they will be more likely able to see the pressure and lower their prices, as it all comes down to who cracks first, and if we don't crack before their shares go down the tubes, they'll have to cave. This is, of course, assuming a sizable amount of people actually participates. One or two isn't going to do much. In addition, buying from discount merchants has a similar effect as buying from GW, since they are still making a profit (albeit small) and their products are still getting out. They'll simply raise those prices to compensate for what they can't sell in the stores.
I'm personally boycotting all GW products for the time being, even second-hand products. As I still have a sizable amount of unbuilt models anyways, this should allow me about a year's worth of time to still do the hobby and consider whether or not it's worth continuing or should i jsut sell off my crap.
I have quit buying models, the last things I bought was a Daemon Prince in January, and a couple of pots of washes two months ago. Now my army is complete, I am done with buying from Gamesworkshop.
You have get the word out to the press. If you get big enough amount of people to protest, it might have some media attention and that way affect GW. I would think the public relations are the way to go. Sale decrease might have some effect too, but if you manage to get GW to make a public announcement or something, you have won. :-)
So, flood the media with letters saying what is going to happen.
(I am speaking in 2nd person ("you") because I just joined the forum and I have not been buying any new GW stuff for ages. I don't know if my eternal boycott will be counted in this temporary one, heh heh.)
Jani wrote:You have get the word out to the press. If you get big enough amount of people to protest, it might have some media attention and that way affect GW. I would think the public relations are the way to go. Sale decrease might have some effect too, but if you manage to get GW to make a public announcement or something, you have won. :-)
So, flood the media with letters saying what is going to happen.
(I am speaking in 2nd person ("you") because I just joined the forum and I have not been buying any new GW stuff for ages. I don't know if my eternal boycott will be counted in this temporary one, heh heh.)
The boycott is useless, I'm afraid. You want prices to lower? Become a member of GW who is able to make these decisions. Any action other than this would probably end with failure. You could also wait for the world to end in October and/or 2012, as well as boycott and gather as much money as possible, and wait til the year 2042, and time travel to give your past self all the money.
Note: I know GW won't lower prices, I'm saying things intended to be jokes. Very sorry if people think I'm a half-wit.
Jani wrote:You have get the word out to the press. If you get big enough amount of people to protest, it might have some media attention and that way affect GW. I would think the public relations are the way to go. Sale decrease might have some effect too, but if you manage to get GW to make a public announcement or something, you have won. :-)
So, flood the media with letters saying what is going to happen.
(I am speaking in 2nd person ("you") because I just joined the forum and I have not been buying any new GW stuff for ages. I don't know if my eternal boycott will be counted in this temporary one, heh heh.)
I don't care about this boycot thing, but I haven't bought anything for a month now and I will continue to not buy stuff till necrons or something else that catches my fancy comes out. I guess I'm supporting this thing without caring haha
You know what would be a relatively good idea? Buy as much shares of GW as you possibly can instead of buying their products. Eventually, if we're lucky, we can own a good portion of the stocks and ask GW to lower prices, or sell all of our stock at once. Any company that has a large amount of its stock suddenly sold ends up tanking. Now afraid, GW will lower costs. Everyone wins! GW makes both the stockholders happy as well as their customers, now that they are one and the same. Not happy with this option? Just keep the stock and make profit!!!
Pffff, not going to do this.
If I want something that looks nice, I'll buy it eventually.
But makes me enjoy the hobby more. Doing it slowly.
And ofcourse GW got more expensive over the years. Everything does.
But if you compare to other things (like going to the movies or whatever) its almost nothing.
Well, here in the Netherlands that is.
Don't know much about other country's really. Picked something up from Australia that its expensive there or something.
But here, its alright, just the minimal price increase.
I really do not think a one day boycott will effect anything, seeing that the fanboys and those who genuinely love Warhammer, Warhammer 40k or any other such game will continue to play. Those who leave, may very well be sucked into it again with some new release, such as the Dark Eldar.
I for one haven't bought anything from GW in a long time. It is getting to expensive for me with the progressive price hikes whether they are justified or not.
Add to the fact, that my video game hobby is as expensive, but in some ways more gratifying than the miniature gaming side. Plus there is the dilemma when I do have money to burn...Do I get 1 big GW kit, which I would still need x more of to complete Y army? Or do I get the hot new video game that I can just pop in a play? Or do I go get into a new system which is small scall and skimished based?
Lately I have gone for the last two. I do not have a huge miniature player base near by, with gas prices going quite high and the long commute it's just easier to sit in front my my TV and play some dragon age or other such game.
Or I could just get into a game such as Warmachine or Hordes or more recently Infinity and have just 10 models to buy and be done with it and expand as money permits.
Only will long term, many player based stoppage of purchasing will make GW pay attention and even then, I doubt that they will care. For every one who drops out and turns to another system, there will always be another to fill in their place.
It's rather sad really, but it's just frustrating when I open some of my old WD's I have from the mid 80's and look at how far the game has come since it's roots and how expensive it has become!
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:You haven't been following the GW thing very long have you Falkors.
GW never, repeat NEVER reduce prices.
Their reaction would be, "the suckersfans love us more when we hurt them, so let's hurt them more."
So true, love it. Price increases nothing new.
krazynadechukr wrote:
Sigh.....
For the umpteenth time, GW is NOT "the hobby" - they are one, pretty damn large, company within the wargaming hobby. No more, no less.
What?
Sigh....
Okay, let me break it down better for you since you want to get sooooo technical buddy.......
For those in the miniature wargame hobby that participate in Games Workshop Warhammer 40k miniature game system, that are unhappy with the rules, prices, changes, etc... Go find another miniature game that is put out by another miniature wargame company that fits your budget and personal gaming needs that you are satisfied with....
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Guildsman wrote:
krazynadechukr wrote:I think that anyone and everyone that has a beef or rant about GW, or qualms, or concerns, or issues with prices & getting started, or reservations about this hobby, SHOULD stay away from GW stores & the hobby, sell off your minis, and get a new hobby....
That'll show GW!
& Give the rest of us gamers who enjoy the hobby a break!
And for that, I thank and support you!
Now get going TODAY!
This is the sort of arrogance that makes it easy for me to quit "the Hobby," and glad that none of my local game shops are official GW stores. GW never was or will be the only wargame company on the market. Sure, I'll sell off my GW models. I've still got my flames of war and Malifaux models to play with.
On-topic, a boycott of any definite length of time is pointless. Unless you can convince the entire fanbase to stop buying, it will not do anything.
sarcasm....have you heard of it before?
Your point about "the hobby" was easily understood. Dudes just getting on his box thinking everyone thinks GW "is" the hobby.
You can count on me for this boycott! I was weak and bought the Vampire Counts Army Book a few months ago to help plan what undead I was going to buy from Mantic Games and that interrupted my past three-or-so years of not buying Games Workshop, but I'm back on the wagon, now.
redstripe wrote:You can count on me for this boycott! I was weak and bought the Vampire Counts Army Book a few months ago to help plan what undead I was going to buy from Mantic Games and that interrupted my past three-or-so years of not buying Games Workshop, but I'm back on the wagon, now.
Go-Go Boycott!
Continueing to not buy after not buying for 3 years won't really affect GW at all.)
A one day boycott is fine and dandy, but will do little to stem the tide. A prolonged boycott and continuous bad PR for GW will have better results.
Afterall, this is the age of the Internet. You can develop a grass roots movement, get people involved, take action and ultimately affect GW's bottom line.
Ouze's Secret Guide to "Defeating" Games Workshop, a.k.a The Evil Empire
1.) Just quit buying their stuff, from anywhere. Not Ebay, not Amazon, Not Bartertown. That's all. Don't sing a song or organize a boycott or a petition or a facebook campaign or twitterbombing. Just stop buying their stuff, and continue to play with what you already have. Or play with someone else's really cool stuff. Try out At43, or Dust tactics, or Warmachines, or games like Last Night on Earth.
2.) That's it.
3.) That's all.
crowe wrote:A one day boycott is fine and dandy, but will do little to stem the tide. A prolonged boycott and continuous bad PR for GW will have better results.
Afterall, this is the age of the Internet
Games Workshop has a 2+ Invunerable save vs The Internet.
Ouze wrote:Ouze's Secret Guide to "Defeating" Games Workshop, a.k.a The Evil Empire
crowe wrote:A one day boycott is fine and dandy, but will do little to stem the tide. A prolonged boycott and continuous bad PR for GW will have better results.
Afterall, this is the age of the Internet
Games Workshop has a 2+ Invunerable save vs The Internet.
I'm good. I think trying to boycott is a ridiculous idea. If you're that riled up about it, just quit. I'll be posting what I've bought too. Might as well put my money where my mouth is.
krazynadechukr wrote:I think that anyone and everyone that has a beef or rant about GW, or qualms, or concerns, or issues with prices & getting started, or reservations about this hobby, SHOULD stay away from GW stores & the hobby, sell off your minis, and get a new hobby....
That'll show GW!
& Give the rest of us gamers who enjoy the hobby a break!
And for that, I thank and support you!
Now get going TODAY!
While I appreciate and respect that you are entitled to an opinion, you seem to have a problem respecting that other's are also entitled to their own.
However, many of us have invested in this hobby for the past 20+ years and have been through the ups and downs. If you have also, that's great! If not, then you probably missed the finer points such as GW used to sell the products and games of *gasp* other companies and now they deny the existence of 48 other gaming systems and miniature warfare mini lines. GW also used to be run by ordinary people, who were concerned for their customers and the hobby.
It is the last 3-5 years that GW has backflipped on these ideals and more that has brought forth the growing concerns from the customer base.
Despite the economy, GW's pricing and actions now go against the spirit of the hobby. Not to mention good business practices. This is why many are becoming dissatisfied with the entity formerly loved as GW.
I hope you now possess some understanding and if you wish to discuss this in further detail I am happy to sit down with you to go into further detail.
Nah, whether long-term or short-term boycott on GW's Plastic model won't affect them anyway.
They have other source of income such as licensing their IP to VIDEO GAME maker (Dawn Of War series, the upcoming Space Marine and Warhammer 40k MMO). Even if they did shut down their plastic model, they could move on to the *gulp* video game market.
Boycotts never work unless they're massive, permanent, hinging only on a change of conditions the other party is aware of and able to meet. As a large corporate entity, GW will never notice this unless it spread like the plague and was a long-term problem for their sales forcasts. I can assure you you're wasting your time here, although I will not criticize your motivation, I can certainly understand that.
I agree with many of the others here, if you want to send a message to GW, albeit one they'll never acknowledge on an individual level, just stop buying their products, period.
Make a deal with your gaming group to buy into a new gaming system/etc. Stay out of the GW purchases for a year or two, and if enough people do the same thing, it could potentially matter. The odds are, probably not, but that's the best chance you have with something like this.
Ultimately, what will hurt GW the most is when their prices finally reach critical mass and only the fanboys will be the ones pulling the trigger on purchases of their product. Then, and only then, will the fanboys will see how outnumbered (and undervalued by GW) they are. I've seen this in the video game sector for years. Even the most gak-tastic titles have the fanboys that buy them on day 1 of release, but when the masses don't, the company adjusts to make a better product/value.
Until then, deal with it however you have to, but don't be naive. Money talks, BS walks. GW isn't going to let you rock their boat until their revenue stream becomes a concern they cannot ignore. It really is that simple I am afraid.
Shady Pigeon wrote:I've been hearing a lot about GWs shares being 'shaky' recently. I have an extraordinarily low level of knowledge when it comes to economics, but looking at this chart, it seems that for the last 3 years, GWs shares have been doing pretty damn well?
I really dislike most of the talked about policies that GW has rolled out recently, but it doesn't appear to be affecting their share price, or the value of the company as a whole.
Yeah, the price was higher in March then it was at it's peak 5 years ago, before the GEC. They've dropped a bit since then, but they've levelled out it seems....
A boycot would do nothing, unless you can get a large majority of the gaming population to not buy anything from anywhere, including independent stockists, and convince the independent stockists not to order either. And all of that for over a month.
I may have misunderstood, but they are presently at an all time high, compared to the last five years. Their low this month beats their high five years ago.
Their stock started solidly climbing with the rest of the global economy.
Don't ever stop doing something you love. Find a way to do it that will keep you satisfied. GW prices are absurd. However, in the past decade that their prices have doubled and sometimes tripled, the quality of their products has doubled and sometimes tripled. It's a shame that it stirs up so much controversy and outrage, but the simple fact remains that it is the greatest tabletop wargame hobby. Best all around. It is also an exclusive club of sorts. GW has dillusions of grandeur brought on by the one ring, but their products are top tier. It costs too much. That's a fact. Any outsider will take one look at the price and tell you that you are stupid for playing this game. I hope a happy medium can be found that will restore balance to the force...er warp, where developers can still produce the constant enflux of new bad ass merchandise without keeping their customer base broke virgins for life.
EYEofTERROR wrote:What is with all of the black and white? Pay up or leave the GW aspect of the hobby. That statement is ridiculous. I have been in love with the warhammer 40k IP for nearly 20 years, but I absolutely hate the price I have to pay retail. I will never quit doing something that I love, but I will also fight for what I believe to be reasonable prices. I have no loyalty to GW. My love is for the 40k universe no matter what the price, I will always love it. I refuse to pay what gw think it's worth and I am intelligent enough to find ways around it. However, when someone tells someone to allow their pocketbooks to be raped or stop pursuing something you truly enjoy, I have to step in and say "F-U", fascist. Fight for fair prices with tooth and nail.
The problem here is that you are emotionally invested in a relationship with a party that absolutely does not have an emotional investment in you. GWS is a company running a business, not your aloof girlfriend. The passion, internal investment and self-identification that some people get with their material possessions is something that only serves to be abused by those same corporations for profit (GWS, Apple).
At the end of the day, it's a business for you to take or leave. The only sort of thought you should make about whether or not to purchase these items are the ROI; if the happiness you get from what you buy is equal to or greater then the happiness you can get elsewhere for the same entertainment dollar. That's it.
At the end of the day, it's a business for you to take or leave. The only sort of thought you should make about whether or not to purchase these items are the ROI; if the happiness you get from what you buy is equal to or greater then the happiness you can get elsewhere for the same entertainment dollar. That's it.
Blasphemer! The Emperor is my GOD! It is not a business! It's the future of MANKIND! The word of the Emperor is LAW.
LOL. You are absolutely correct. Nothing else can satiate my appetite for this hobby. All other games are mere distractions....and I play many tabletop/board games/ rpgs. So the dollars I spend on GW, whether it be from retail or personal collections, give me more happiness than an equal amount spent on anything else. Plus, so long as you have skill, you may as well be buying gold or jewels. It retains it's value better than the American dollar.
Considering that I only make a few purchases from GW a every once in a while. I guess you could say that I boycott them about 360 days out of the year.
GW products are not a basic need or anything close.
If you don't like the price (like me) just quit buying their stuff.
Don't do a boycott and then start buying again, boycotts hardly ever work and when they do there is very important things that need to change, not just the price of your hobby (ex: Food cost, working conditions). That's like saying let's boycott apple because their products are overpriced (and they are), if you think apple products are overpriced why buy them? There are plenty of alternatives for you.
Instead of complaining, just encourage indie miniature producers like TFM or Kromlech to name a few. If games workshop do produce things I think are worth my money I'll buy them, but for now the price doesn't meet the quality.
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_109577025797447&ap=1 This group I've joined has managed to get someone up to OZ HQ and voiced our concerns at a meeting over there. It will be passed on to higher-ups. Let's hope something good comes out of it.
libstermiles wrote:I have changed the event to the whole of July 1st-31st, this is a high point for Games Workshop. if everyone is in the frame of mind ' not enough will do it, it cant work.' then it won't, we need as many people to attend as possible.
Someone made a comparison to crack in the beginning of this thread, I think they basically summed it up there.
The dealer keeps raising the price on you and you keep getting mad but man...he has the best crack.
Good luck wasting you time with the boycott. Do us all a favor if you're that angry at GW and to weak willed to pick up any of the other dozen table top games out there; keep it to yourself.
This is a huge and ongoing rant about GW's prices, about how they have been spiraling out of control to the point where it is nearly unaffordable to the average gamer. Apposed to this, are the other wargame companies who 'look out for the little guy' and keep their prices low so that everyone can afford to collect them.
So since this has been going on for years, surely GW products have to be what, twice, three times the price of the competition?
A squad of 5 standard-sized resin infantry costs between £20.5 and £23
For Malifaux, a boxed starter set of 5 standard sized infantry costs between £18.80 & £25
Infanity - about £13 for 2, which makes it around £32.5 for 5
Mantic appear to be an exception at only £13 for 10, but Scibor minatures who also make resin substitues for 40k appear to charge £9 per soldier.
...so from what I can see, GW prices aren't really out of wack with the competition at all. The only difference is that I field an equilivent of a 1500pt game of Malifaux with only about £40 pound on figures. But 40K does require a big investiment to play that 1500 game - it's cost me about £150 to get there. But that's what 40k is about - comparitively big armies smashing into one another.
If the price of the game is too much, then perhaps a game with a smaller modelcount is more in your price range? If not, why are you expecting GW to subsidise you?
MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:Can someone help clarify something for me?
This is a huge and ongoing rant about GW's prices, about how they have been spiraling out of control to the point where it is nearly unaffordable to the average gamer. Apposed to this, are the other wargame companies who 'look out for the little guy' and keep their prices low so that everyone can afford to collect them.
So since this has been going on for years, surely GW products have to be what, twice, three times the price of the competition?
A squad of 5 standard-sized resin infantry costs between £20.5 and £23
For Malifaux, a boxed starter set of 5 standard sized infantry costs between £18.80 & £25
Infanity - about £13 for 2, which makes it around £32.5 for 5
Mantic appear to be an exception at only £13 for 10, but Scibor minatures who also make resin substitues for 40k appear to charge £9 per soldier.
...so from what I can see, GW prices aren't really out of wack with the competition at all. The only difference is that I field an equilivent of a 1500pt game of Malifaux with only about £40 pound on figures. But 40K does require a big investiment to play that 1500 game - it's cost me about £150 to get there. But that's what 40k is about - comparitively big armies smashing into one another.
If the price of the game is too much, then perhaps a game with a smaller modelcount is more in your price range? If not, why are you expecting GW to subsidise you?
Im Australian, so that £150 is now £300 - £400 or around 10x more than Malifaux. Rinse and repeat with other gaming systems untill the bare facts of reality cause you to spiral into an uncontrolable rage, followed by a deep hollowness and bitter regret as you look at your now blood soaked living room.
..and as was pointed out on the other threads on this, the average disposable income, and therefore a damn good indication of "what the market will bear", is higher in Aus than elsewhere.
Or, to put it simpler: why doesnt everyone in the UK nerdrage about MS selling Windows for $1 in <insert random developing country here>?
This boycott will achieve precisely nothing. THat time of the year NOT having regulars in the shop, so they can get more people on the crack habit, is probably a good thing....
Like the rising of hemlines, this is the season for the GWS boycott thread. Railing against either gets you to the same place (nowhere), so good luck with your endeavors.
nosferatu1001 wrote:..and as was pointed out on the other threads on this, the average disposable income, and therefore a damn good indication of "what the market will bear", is higher in Aus than elsewhere.
Or, to put it simpler: why doesnt everyone in the UK nerdrage about MS selling Windows for $1 in <insert random developing country here>?
This boycott will achieve precisely nothing. THat time of the year NOT having regulars in the shop, so they can get more people on the crack habit, is probably a good thing....
Uh, what?
I was mearly pointing out that his reasonable argument, that GW and Their competitors models are still comparitvly priced, dose not hold true for all localitys in the world.
P.S Also your oringinal argument and many others like them are illl informed, badly argued and tindged with misdirected jelousy. After all Australians work the most hours of any developed nation to earn that wage so they can afford the high cost of living in this country. And hey, despite only 1.3% of Australians working in the high paying (and long hours) mining industry, im sure we all can afford higher prices, am I right or am I right! damn it!
P.S.S I also hereby also invite you to my living room for... er.. further.. discussion, at our lesure.
I'm torn between not supporting GW as a larger company, and supporting my local FLGWS. The guys in there are great, friendly, hard working, and passionate about their hobby, as I'm sure it is for mostother FLGWS. I want to keep them in a job, and the store that really does a lot for my community in business. It seems like the only way to do that is to buy in smaller quantities and possibly less frequently.
Your own government provides the facts, so your anger is directed at the wrong source.
Oh, and did noone mention that working longer and longer hours actually reduces productivity overall?
Frankly: GW does not give a flying rat if *everyone* can afford it. Enough people are able to, that is all that matters for a *hobby*
If you dont like it, its not compulsory....
My Government provides me with the facts that prove you wrong (Actualy this is a lie, I dont actualy know what your talking about in regards to this, seems like a wired comment to make)
Desides im not angry im deleriously, uh, happy? in a wired kind of imoral way that involves painting the new living room red. Fun
GW not caring is my biggest reason for not buying their models, also GW is not *the hobby* it is one company that can supply models and rules for the *hobby*
I know its not compulsory, never suggested it was, dont know why you think I might think it is, dosent stop me from voicing options or talking in a constructive way about comparitive models and their costs in Australia. Also now collecting Infinity and buying alternitive models for 40k.
I don't see what one day will do. Especially when as other's have mentioned, people boycotting will probably just buy on another day.
I know it's hard because most people live and breathe warhammer but if you really feel strongly about this you need to quit. Go and play something else. Seriously warmachine/hordes for example is a great game. It's different to 40k and that scares people but when you actually get into it you see how fun and polished it is you will wonder why you didn't try it out sooner. Also it's cheap to get started. A 15pt warmachine army is actually quite fun and goes much further than a 500pt 40k army before becoming boring.
My hope is that enough people will truly quit 40k for a period of time long enough to dissolve the monopoly in the war gaming industry. A situation where there are three or more big players all roughly equal would greatly benefit gamers. If such a situation came to pass and from it 40k was fairly priced and of a higher standard, that I think would be when I get back into 40k.
Man, I'm pissed. Just today gas prices went up again! That's like the the 31st time this month. Back when gas was only $2.50 (I'm American) a gallon, I spent about $82.50 a month on gas. Now that around where I lived is about $4.00 a gallon, I get to spend $160.00 a month. In one year, I get to spend upwards of $1920.00 on gas alone. For many others around the world, it's more than this. Seeing that comparison, the money I spend on video games or GW models seems like almost nothing. I'm not saying don't boycott GW. Heck, might as well attempt it so prices have a shot at going down. The real enemy, however, is corporations as a whole that work together in increasing prices in order to make profits while keeping up competition amongst themselves. Fix that problem, and maybe all prices will decrease.
kinghammer wrote:To whole thread and facebook page.. lols
Maybe the next crusade should be boycotting Starbukcs because all their prices will be going up 17% on coffee.....
I've been boycotting Starbucks for years on the grounds of being morally opposed to putting overpriced coffee that tastes like tarmac in my mouth. So far, my campaign has been very successful, and I have received several increasingly desperate letters from the company headquarters, begging me to give them my custom. Did you know that every new drink they come up with is an effort to woo me back? True story.
FalkorsRaiders wrote: Heck, might as well attempt it so prices have a shot at going down. The real enemy, however, is corporations as a whole that work together in increasing prices in order to make profits while keeping up competition amongst themselves. Fix that problem, and maybe all prices will decrease.
That's called price fixing and that's illegal. The "big oil companies" don't do that. I used to work for one of the biggest (ExxonMobil).
The price of gas is directly tied to the cost of a barrel of oil, refining costs, taxes (generally 20-40 cents), and transportation costs.
If you hadn't noticed, there's been a bit of unrest in the middle east this year. That will ALWAYS kick prices in the pants. Mainly because of speculators. Of course, since there is ALWAYS something going on the middle east, this is nothing new.
That's the 1 cent version of "Why gas prices are so high." I don't have time for anything else. Take it to the off-topic forum if you want a more lengthy discussion.
Not gonna argue with someone who knows more than me. All I was trying to say is that I don't mind spending money on models when I compare the prices to other things that cost more. I also say that the boycott, even if people say its stupid, is worth doing because even the smallest chance of a price decrease is interesting and enjoyable. I personally won't be a part of it, and I know people will say I am being hurtful to the cause, but the thing is I won't be buying anything 'til August, so for now, work on boycotting so my precious necron pieces' prices are lowered.
Instead of just boycotting why not really get im where it hurts and spend that gaming money somewhere else.
Another game system or even video games, etc.
I am going to drop 300 dollars on three other games!!!!
That will give me a full army in each system approximatley. Share the wealth promote competition the capitalist way.
Even at current prices you would be strained to get a full warhammer army in either of their systems.
Not pumping gas for a day always works with the oil companies. It's not too far fetched that a tiny group of gamers boycotting GW product for an entire day will cause sweeping changes to the way GW deals with pricing.
Joshawa wrote:Not pumping gas for a day always works with the oil companies. It's not too far fetched that a tiny group of gamers boycotting GW product for an entire day will cause sweeping changes to the way GW deals with pricing.
Good lord! This sarcasm detector is off the scale!
I can't recall a time a hobby/gaming boycott actually worked.
I would also hazard a guess that GW believes themselves to be in a fairly strong position, with setting up multi-year agreements with both Relic Entertainment and Warner Bros.
The only way I can see any change is if they're destroyed on the inside, i.e. Lorraine Williams mismanagement of TSR. While it may seem like GW is doing similarly, it's nowhere near that bad. Also keep in mind that Williams, even with the mismanagement, held onto TSR for 11 years until they were bought by WoTC in 98.
Shigematsu wrote:The only way I can see any change is if they're destroyed on the inside, i.e. Lorraine Williams mismanagement of TSR.
You are on to something. We'll have to start prepping up somebody with required talents, skills and experience to replace Mark Wells or Tom Kirby. In the next ten years or so, when one of them will be leaving the post, we'll slip our guy in. THEN we can make a difference.
Probably we should get several guys ready, if both of them are leaving in the next decade or two.
I think its a good idea, how ever i think this should be aimed not at a date but at a release in particular, say WH40k 6th edition coming late this/next year. Boycott the preorder and release, and you will get your message across loud and clear.
I'm going to utter a scornful "Ha ha!" from the sidelines. You want to save something? Save yourselves instead of trying to somehow make water run uphill and make the boogiemen at Nottingham to mend their ways.
Stop playing. Stop buying. Walk away. Three simple steps.
Joshawa wrote:Not pumping gas for a day always works with the oil companies. It's not too far fetched that a tiny group of gamers boycotting GW product for an entire day will cause sweeping changes to the way GW deals with pricing.
Good lord! This sarcasm detector is off the scale!
Let me see you through,
'cause I've seen the dark side too,
When the night falls on you,
You don't know what to do,
Nothing you confess,
Could make me love you less.
I'll stand by you,
I'll stand by you,
Won't let nobody hurt you,
I'll stand by you!!
krazynadechukr wrote:The ONLY effective way to send a message to GW is to stop playing & stop buying.
Stop buying, yes. If you enjoy playing the games, there's no reason not to keep playing the games - just don't play them in a GW store (if it is even possible to these days).
krazynadechukr wrote:Get away from the warhammer hobby altogether.
Cottonjaw wrote: Jesus. You all love GW. You all play their games. You all snort plasticrack erryday.
Just as a point of order here: Hating GW=/=Hating 40k.
Personally, I will continue to play with everything I currently own but not give Mark Wells a single penny of my hard-earned cash, my personal Boycott began about this time last week.
Kronk - throwing the troll thought around, useful.
I assume you think ths US is "boned" by the price of MS Windows? What about cars?
Sorry, regional pricing is not only legal, but makes sense from a business perspective. And when GW werent acting as a business, they were heading down the tubes.
I also side "a" hobby, not "the" hobby. Sigh.
Back to your fantasies of actually making a blind bit of difference, people. One month, during the holiday seasson when regulars are not exactly a priority, will make no difference.
shinzuer wrote:If there was an actual large scale boycott and they suffered, they would just inflate their prices a large amount to make up for it and rabid fanboys and tournament whores would still pay it and they would get thieir profits back. It's not about the shareholders it's about the top dogs making top dollar.
This is it exactly. You have rabid fanboys defending GW RIGHT NOW over price increases coupled with quality declines, and calling people taking issue with it "whiners." As long as a portion of the player base are willing to play the part of the abused spouse, GW will just keep on gouging them while the sane people keep dropping out of the company entirely.
Making stuff up is not a good way to make an argument.
Not defending price rises, however hyperbole such as "abused spouse" shows a lack of acceptance: GW is a hobby (not "THE" hobby, just "A" hobby, for all those failing to understand the difference) and you are free to leave it at any time.
Questioning peoples sanity for simply enjoying a game? More crap hyperbole.
Xelkireth wrote:I'm good. I think trying to boycott is a ridiculous idea. If you're that riled up about it, just quit. I'll be posting what I've bought too. Might as well put my money where my mouth is.
What's ridiculous about it?
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nosferatu1001 wrote:Sorry, what quality declines?
Making stuff up is not a good way to make an argument.
Have you not seen the actual examples of Finecast on the internet? Not the company ones, the ones people have actually bought that are pockmarked all over, warped, and will melt in a hot car?
Not defending price rises, however hyperbole such as "abused spouse" shows a lack of acceptance: GW is a hobby (not "THE" hobby, just "A" hobby, for all those failing to understand the difference) and you are free to leave it at any time.
If by "leaving it" you mean, "never purchasing another GW product again", I am leaving it. I am also encouraging others to leave it. That is also my right. Why does that bother you GW sycophants so much? Seriously, if it were no skin off any of your teeth, why do you people consistently jump in these threads, mock the people participating, and go so far as to make comments about buying things because others boycott? Do you all have GW stock or something?
Questioning peoples sanity for simply enjoying a game? More crap hyperbole.
Nope. Questioning their sanity for letting a company show utter contempt for them and not only not standing up against it, but actively encouraging it.
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Panic wrote:Yeah,
We all hate a price rise but this is stupid.
to to mention the fact that most people don't buy something every month!
Also it's not news or a rumour, just a pathetic cry for attention...
This kinda crap makes dakka look stupid.
Those on the outside looking in are laughing their asses off F.F.S.
I vote it gets moved to OT and/or locked...
Panic...
I agree, please hide all these threads so we can get back to threads abotu female space marines, Tau and their lameness, and talking like Orks. I only want shallow discussion on Dakka.
DaNewBoy wrote:How about all GW players create an investment group, pool together their money, buy some shares, then we all go to the shareholders meeting and throw a fit until we are treated like customers and not money cattle?
EDIT: Spelling
In theory, this might not be such a bad idea: if everyone pitched in 5 bucks from the community (not walletbreaking; price equivalents for people not in the US) and we got a couple shares of stock (how much is it currently per share, whoever follows this?), we could have people go to shareholder meetings and make our concerns known. Someone eloquent could also draw up a (don't shoot me) declaration of independence against GW and list our complaints and have everyone involved sign it. This would take place at their shareholder meeting, with hard evidence that their "fans" are openly rebelling against them. If we own a portion (albeit a small one) of the company, they can't throw us out for making our complaints and feelings known. The key though, is to approach this topic as adults-not petulant children.
Sorry to steal your thunder NewBoy
No that's cool. Actually, I was thinking of buying out a significant portion (not with my meager income buy with the "F Gamesworkshop Investment Group") and then threatening to liquidate if our demands are not met/taken seriously. Basically, you have to get them at the wallet. Customers are not scarey because where one falls, another will bloom. Investors are another animal.
This is actually a really good idea. I'm glad I read through this thread long enough to see it. I wonder if it would be possible to set up a holding and buy up the stock, and then use the dividends to cover operational costs.
Market cap appears to be 134.2m GBP. Assuming I understand market capitalization properly, then at a going rate of 430/share, that means that they have about 312,000 shares. I wonder how many you would have to acquire to have a meaningfully loud enough voice in the company.
To get even 1% share control would cost 1.34m GBP, which is a lotta cash. However, revenue for 2010 was 126.5m GBP, which to me means that if we could persuade GW buyers for the next year to donate a percentage of what they'd normally spend on GW; that is, not even going cold turkey, just buying a little less, then we could get almost as much in their stock.
This is of course, all subject to market flux and other things I don't fully understand. Undoubtedly, as our cause became more public, share prices would rocket.
Now for my gaze at the big picture. Outside of our little hobby, in the "real world", corporations effectively control how things are done now, but corporations still have to answer to the shareholder. I kind of wonder how hard it would be to regain control of government by means of buying significant portions of corporations and then lean on them to do the 'right' thing. I'm kind of picturing some sort of online venue similar to those stupid petition sites, except you state your intentions and take donations toward effecting the change desired. It's kind of the purest democratic capitalist society I can think of.
Monster Rain wrote:I bet that once you owned a significant amount of stock, you'd quickly be on board with whatever GW did to raise profits.
It's the nature of the beast.
That's kind of what I'm hoping will be avoided by putting this into a holdings. I'm thinking something like a NFP where everyone who contributes is part of it. Since the holdings itself is not publicly owned (well, for some definitions of "not publicly"), it's not like it can get hijacked by people who are only interested in greed. It's simply just there "for the good of the hobby," and since you lack a method to cash out your chips at the end of the day when the stock's up, there's no reason for you to ever want to make a decision that was "bad for the hobby" like the constant price hikes. In essense, over enough time of doing this, you're basically just buying back GW for themselves.
Of course, then there's worry that perhaps the price hikes are actually not that "bad for the hobby" in spite of what angry neckbeards think, but that's a different argument.
daedalus wrote:Of course, then there's worry that perhaps the price hikes are actually not that "bad for the hobby" in spite of what angry neckbeards think, but that's a different argument.
This is precisely why I don't get worked up about this stuff.
I don't know enough about it, and frankly, I don't care. If I want something from GW I'll pony up the cash and buy it because I recognize that it isn't something that's mandatory for me to own. They're charging what they think the market will bear and time will tell if they were correct or not, regardless of a one day "boycott" from 17 people.
libstermiles wrote:We decided to do it for one day, then tell Games Workshop we'd redo it for a couple of weeks, because of course, like you said that one day wouldn't make too much of an impact, but if we tell Games Workshop the numbers, it may create an impact, hopefully.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ok, its 04 July at 00:00 - 05 July at 00:00
Basically don't go into Games Workshop and buy anything, for one day, then if enough people have decided to join this capmpaign then we were going to increase it to a few weeks, to create a much larger impact.
Oh dear, I think a bit of wee just came out!
Seriously, boycotts affect nothing. The price rises will go on, and if you can't afford it, well, sucks for you. Me, as long as I continue to enjoy the games and the community, I'll persevere. Would I like cheaper prices, of course. But am I going to see them? Nope, not really. Sorry to be a downer, but seriously, not going to change anything.
libstermiles wrote:We decided to do it for one day, then tell Games Workshop we'd redo it for a couple of weeks, because of course, like you said that one day wouldn't make too much of an impact, but if we tell Games Workshop the numbers, it may create an impact, hopefully.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ok, its 04 July at 00:00 - 05 July at 00:00
Basically don't go into Games Workshop and buy anything, for one day, then if enough people have decided to join this capmpaign then we were going to increase it to a few weeks, to create a much larger impact.
Oh dear, I think a bit of wee just came out!
Seriously, boycotts affect nothing. The price rises will go on, and if you can't afford it, well, sucks for you. Me, as long as I continue to enjoy the games and the community, I'll persevere. Would I like cheaper prices, of course. But am I going to see them? Nope, not really. Sorry to be a downer, but seriously, not going to change anything.
True boycotts actually have a huge impact. Problem is, no one does true boycotts anymore, they do it for a week or two and then go right back.
Me, I spend all month long, model here, novel there.
Though tomorrow, having finally obtained my inheritance, I'm ordering a shopping list that will leave my wallet feeling nothing less than violated. By a gang of heffalumps.
And this is what you're up against. I used to work for GW last year (sodding redundancy!) and it use to make me laugh when you'd read about 4 or 5 people 'leaving the hobby' online. Why so amusing? Because I could flog that number of starter sets on a half decent Saturday. Trick at the moment is the retention of early games. Which is what the training is all about these days. But I'm disgressing.
Sorry folks, but this boycott, like the other before it, won't change owt.
In the course of history, someone will get what they want if they hold their breath.
Boycott GW for a day, a week, a month....
You know & they know you WILL eventually buy that new item....They have all the time and money to wait for your purchase....
If GW sees their client basis dimishis by you & all your boycott buddies not buying AND not going into any store to play the game anymore, that might send a signal....
But with people buying everyday and hundreds of new people getting into GW hobby every week world wide, you wont be missed by GW...I do not say that to be mean, it is a fact....
GW is a street walker and we are the John's...there are plenty of John's for them out there....
She (GW) is just charging a tad more for her tricks, and new partons will never know what you paid a year ago for what she charges now for that
Hey, I spent thousands on GW over the last 20 years....I don't expect any special treatment or thank you card for deciding to join this hobby....
It was a choice, and with the choice you accept what comes....
The man has a point, these protests of not buying for a small period of time have little impact.
That's why I'm finishing off my armies and then calling time on GW.
I was planning 3 large armies in 2011-12 and they will now not happen.
Mrs S and I are already eyeing warmahordes and malifaux. I'm debating a soviet tank army for FoW, I'm also interested in trying out distopian wars and infinity.
I'm also going to spend a large part of that money on a big fish tank for the lounge. Because it was never about not having disposable income but rather the product greatly outstripping it's perceived worth. I think the GW minis are far beyond what they're worth now and so will spend my cash on other things.
Any boycott has to be for a minimum of a quarter and get as many people as possible to pledge for a year.
Also the pledge should include a 'commitment' to still spend on the gaming materials from other companies, or Gw will think the boycott will only mean a save and spend.
The best way of doing that is not to boycott GW ut tom pledge that GW will only get one pound/dollar/euro in ten of the gaming money. Send the message that not only are yiou willing to not spend at GW but you are willing to spend elsewhere. That and only that will get their attention, as it threatens a permanent loss of custom.
Actually the moste efficient boycott is the one, GW is currently doing on customers. You will soon see that nothing is as effective at driving down sales as a total information boycott and marketing stop on new products, the retraction of half the product range (metals) making it difficult to buy legal armies (no plastic HQ), the cutting off of the Southern market, the constant raising the hurdle for beginners (prices for starter boxes and Codices, lowering point costs while raising the average army point costs -> Fantasy 8th edition), the sueing and harrassing of fan websites and aftermarket companies, the neglect of introductory games, the closing of stores, the reducing of staff (including creative staff at HQ, hiring IP lawyers instead ), and so on.
If you follow GW business reports, you will see that this boycott is going on for some years, but put to the extreme now. Noone can make a boycott to drive down GW sales better than the current GW management. The next business report will prove me right
Kroothawk wrote:Actually the moste efficient boycott is the one, GW is currently doing on customers. You will soon see that nothing is as effective at driving down sales as a total information boycott and marketing stop on new products, the retraction of half the product range (metals) making it difficult to buy legal armies (no plastic HQ), the cutting off of the Southern market, the constant raising the hurdle for beginners (prices for starter boxes and Codices, lowering point costs while raising the average army point costs -> Fantasy 8th edition), the sueing and harrassing of fan websites and aftermarket companies, the neglect of introductory games, the closing of stores, the reducing of staff (including creative staff at HQ, hiring IP lawyers instead ), and so on.
If you follow GW business reports, you will see that this boycott is going on for some years, but put to the extreme now. Noone can make a boycott to drive down GW sales better than the current GW management. The next business report will prove me right
+1 to this. From my perspective, GW customer boycott probably began sometime during 4th edition.
As someone who’s recently jumped ship to PP, it still feels weird to deal with a company that actually communicates with its customers and provide frequent rules updates
nosferatu1001 wrote:GW is a hobby (not "THE" hobby, just "A" hobby, for all those failing to understand the difference) and you are free to leave it at any time.
No, GW is a large company within the wargaming hobby, not a hobby unto themselves, no matter what their "marketing" might tell you. Yes, they are influential. Yes, they are a "gateway drug" for a lot of starters within the wargaming hobby.
Debateable. As you can procure everything you need to play their games from their] stores, there is a distinct 'GW Hobby' within the wider Wargaming hobby.
And I for one enjoy the GW Hobby more than the wider one, as it's what I'm used to, and for some reason I just can't get to grips with non-GW stuff. YMMV of course.
nevertellmetheodds wrote:How much would it cost to create investment group, by gamers for gamers and buy up all GW's shares? (or majority) Hell i would put a few grand down.
Market cap is 1.32m GBP, so to completely own all shares in GW, you'd need 1.32m GBP.
Strictly speaking, I'm not sure how the company is organized, but you'd probably only need 51% of that to have guaranteed controlling interest.
nevertellmetheodds wrote:How much would it cost to create investment group, by gamers for gamers and buy up all GW's shares? (or majority) Hell i would put a few grand down.
Way, way more than gamers would every put up.) Why would people complaining about spening 15% extra on a few hundred dollars a year spend thousands? How would you find thousands of such individuals? How would you manage the money, and who makes the decisions?
nevertellmetheodds wrote:How much would it cost to create investment group, by gamers for gamers and buy up all GW's shares? (or majority) Hell i would put a few grand down.
Way, way more than gamers would every put up.) Why would people complaining about spening 15% extra on a few hundred dollars a year spend thousands? How would you find thousands of such individuals? How would you manage the money, and who makes the decisions?
And this is the reason why I haven't already filed the paperwork to start an NPO designed to accept donations to this very end. It's an amazingly lofty goal, but I'm not sure I'd have the time, and honestly, I don't feel right taking money to try to effect change on a crapshoot. We wouldn't ever end up with 51%. We'd be lucky to hit 1% after a year's donation. Even then, I really don't believe that there's much you can do at that point other than become the noisy bothersome guy everyone blows off at the shareholder meetings. Even then, how do you 'fix' things? Would attempted veto of the price hike fix it? For all you know, they've blown enough money into the overhead involved in finecast to require the pricehike to see profits maintained after this year. For all you know, they've got market analysts that have spent far more time and energy determining that keeping gamers in the dark actually DOES make more money. I'm not sure how that could be, but I'm trying devil's advocate here.
Suppose, worst case, we did all this, somehow actually managed to gain controlling interest in the company, and then we did the things gamers asked for, and killed the company as a result. Would that be better? Where would we all be then?
nevertellmetheodds wrote:How much would it cost to create investment group, by gamers for gamers and buy up all GW's shares? (or majority) Hell i would put a few grand down.
Way, way more than gamers would every put up.) Why would people complaining about spening 15% extra on a few hundred dollars a year spend thousands? How would you find thousands of such individuals? How would you manage the money, and who makes the decisions?
And this is the reason why I haven't already filed the paperwork to start an NPO designed to accept donations to this very end. It's an amazingly lofty goal, but I'm not sure I'd have the time, and honestly, I don't feel right taking money to try to effect change on a crapshoot. We wouldn't ever end up with 51%. We'd be lucky to hit 1% after a year's donation. Even then, I really don't believe that there's much you can do at that point other than become the noisy bothersome guy everyone blows off at the shareholder meetings. Even then, how do you 'fix' things? Would attempted veto of the price hike fix it? For all you know, they've blown enough money into the overhead involved in finecast to require the pricehike to see profits maintained after this year. For all you know, they've got market analysts that have spent far more time and energy determining that keeping gamers in the dark actually DOES make more money. I'm not sure how that could be, but I'm trying devil's advocate here.
Suppose, worst case, we did all this, somehow actually managed to gain controlling interest in the company, and then we did the things gamers asked for, and killed the company as a result. Would that be better? Where would we all be then?
I'd love to see certain people do it. You know, those with absolutely no more experience than anyone else in running a global company. Because they are always banging on about GW being poorly run, without really having any experience...
Mr Mystery wrote:I'd love to see certain people do it. You know, those with absolutely no more experience than anyone else in running a global company. Because they are always banging on about GW being poorly run, without really having any experience...
Hahaha yeah. Knowing what the customers want and providing it is useless in business management.
Mr Mystery wrote:I'd love to see certain people do it. You know, those with absolutely no more experience than anyone else in running a global company. Because they are always banging on about GW being poorly run, without really having any experience...
Hahaha yeah. Knowing what the customers want and providing it is useless in business management.
And this is exactly the point. I'm a technical guy with passing knowledge of economics and 'the stock market' (for some definitions of 'stock market'). I'm not one who should be telling any company how to do their business, because I'd approach it from the customer's point of view and it would crumble because I'd realize at the end of the day I haven't actually turned a buck since I started. By the same token, the man in the suit has never played the game and probably doesn't know anything about the company other than that it is a 'game' company. It's about considering when to dump the stock. The only game they play, to abuse a stereotype, is golf. For all they know, GW's a smaller Hasbro or Mattel, making board games or 'action figures'. They're not customer-minded, even when being so could align with improving stock value. I'm sure the low level people are, but they're also powerless to actually do anything about it. There's just no middle ground between the two.
Mr Mystery wrote:I'd love to see certain people do it. You know, those with absolutely no more experience than anyone else in running a global company. Because they are always banging on about GW being poorly run, without really having any experience...
Hahaha yeah. Knowing what the customers want and providing it is useless in business management.
I think that they do know what their customers want and provide it.
Believe it or not, the angry mob on the internet is nothing but a very loud minority of their fanbase whose ranting they take with a rather large grain of salt.
Mr Mystery wrote:Debateable. As you can procure everything you need to play their games from their] stores, there is a distinct 'GW Hobby' within the wider Wargaming hobby.
And I for one enjoy the GW Hobby more than the wider one, as it's what I'm used to, and for some reason I just can't get to grips with non-GW stuff. YMMV of course.
My response is mostly to contribute to discussion, partially to argue with you.
well, the first step of curing oneself of GWmania is to go to an FLGS for your raw supplies/basing material/tools etc. Not sure about the UK, but out here GW branded stuff costs three times as much as non-branded/Testors stuff. Lets look at the tiny tub of flock. For the same price, maybe a little more, I can get three large spice jars' worth of flock, that I can mix together to get the same thing. Even sand/ballast and gravel is cheaper from generic/non-branded suppliers than GW. Add to that that there is a wider array of materials, like deer moss and whatever other types of multicolored foam that GW itself does not carry. GW has also taken progressive steps away from encouraging creativity, to encouraging buying their product, evidencable by the decreasing number of tutoraials showing you how to make something from scratch. Even superglue/Plastic glue has a 3:1 cost ration from GW to non-branded, and the same money I'd spend at GW for files, i could get more with from a non-branded. The GW hobby is not just expensive, but stiffles creative development.
Since then I have been trying to get 2x the awesome out of a single GW kit, trying to use as few parts as possible, replacing those parts with plasticard featuring custom designs. I've started savaging my SM tanks, cutting the doors off and removing as much as I could from the inside of the tanks for use elsewhere. Its not like anyone sees the gutted innards anyway. From there, once you see how much more you can get out of something, I find its easy to transition to the other games. The key thing thats also missing from the GW hobby is the scratch-building they've gotten rid of. I will say it was quite a learning experience to assemble the gaming board, decorate it, as well as working on the conversions. When I am building a tank from scratch or craeting custom/replacement parts, I need to get my angles down perfect and my measurements right too, if I get anything wrong, its back to the drawing board to start again, so one can learn some things about engineering/math. add to that the need for custom parts. If GW doesn't have it, or I can't afford it, I need to find some way of making it.
I find that's my problem with GW. Once kits start getting so expensive as to make anyone cringe about kit-bashing or converting etc, because screwing up will be unconscionable, that puts a bigger dent in my motivation to buy. Well, that, and the higher cost of the GW brand hobby (tools, materials, etc). Still not convinced? How much more beer could you get if you paid less for your stuff? Alternately, how many more nights would your significant other not have "a headache", or other ailment, or require you to spend fewer days setting up camp in the proverbial and or literal dog house if you spent less?
Mr Mystery wrote:I'd love to see certain people do it. You know, those with absolutely no more experience than anyone else in running a global company. Because they are always banging on about GW being poorly run, without really having any experience...
Hahaha yeah. Knowing what the customers want and providing it is useless in business management.
I think that they do know what their customers want and provide it.
Believe it or not, the angry mob on the internet is nothing but a very loud minority of their fanbase whose ranting they take with a rather large grain of salt.
To a certain extent, yes. However, I believe that there are some legitimate complaints in between moans about warhams being "to expensive". The reported heat sensitivity on finecast models is some cause for concern. The lagging and often lackluster FAQ release schedule is cause for concern. The refusal to communicate about upcoming product release is cause for concern. "OMG THERE JUST WANTING MY MUNEY!" really isn't, because so does the every other company out there. The oil company isn't you friend. Your phone company isn't your friend. The grocery store isn't your friend. And GW isn't your friend. They're not supposed to be. At least GW is something you can buy less of and still make it to work.
daedalus wrote:To a certain extent, yes. However, I believe that there are some legitimate complaints in between moans about warhams being "to expensive". The reported heat sensitivity on finecast models is some cause for concern. The lagging and often lackluster FAQ release schedule is cause for concern. The refusal to communicate about upcoming product release is cause for concern. "OMG THERE JUST WANTING MY MUNEY!" really isn't, because so does the every other company out there. The oil company isn't you friend. Your phone company isn't your friend. The grocery store isn't your friend. And GW isn't your friend. They're not supposed to be. At least GW is something you can buy less of and still make it to work.
Oh I do hope I wasn't implying that I agree with everything that GW does.
Far from it. The points you raised in that post about some areas in which they are lacking are 100% spot on, and if this were the time or place I would add a few of my own personal annoyances.
I would go so far as to say that all of the ranting on the internets is actually bad for the hobby, because the legitimate complaints get lost against the overwhelming silly and unreasonable background noise.
Also, the part that I've bolded is one of the most intelligent things I've read on this forum in quite some time. Kudos, sir.
Believe it or not, but GW staff are told to engage with the customer about the customer's hobby, and not their own hobby, or even the 'whole' hobby. If you like painting, I'd chat to you about that. If you like converting and scratchbuilding, I'd find out about your favourites etc, enquire after your next project.
There is of course the necessary product link, the company is after there to make money. But I can guarantee you when it's done right (I guess that be the tricky bit!) you have a happy customer, even if they haven't bought anything. Hell, I'd settle for a sign up to the website.
GW themselves said... well, the guy at the top on a half million pound yearly salary... that product numbers are down but sales are consistant and we paid ourselves again
In other words... selling less items to less people but coz they dramatically increased the price, they made the same money
'Introducing" 100 new players spending $200 in their first purchase, then $50 every few months... Compared to 10000 veterans who spend $1000 at a time and could afford the same every few months
obviously not 'every' veteran.... hence only 10000 quoted
They are pricing their main customer (veterans) out in favour for the odd few newbies
The newbies may be the increase in new sales, but the veterans are the dollar value
As a hobby, GW provides large (Apocalypse) and small (FOC) scale options to play... you can collect an army or indulge in many different armies... and you can pick and choose your depth of involvement in the 'game'
As a cost, it is not a luxury item, yet... it is still cheaper than drinking in pubs every other night or cheaper than smoking a pack a day... or worse, both.
I do not baulk at the price increases, i'm fethin miffed of course, but it or the next few will not curb my appitite for the game. I am not 'lucky' enough to be able to afford to keep playing, I can afford to play because I prioritise my disposable income.
I am very miffed though at the idiotic business plans and decisions that GW have subjected the veterans and loyal followers of the game. I have been involved since 1985 and have spent over AU25,000 in puchases and I do not intend to stop yet.
However, I will never, never pay GW Australian prices again. I have relatives in England and I will utilise their advantages and still save 50% off GWAU prices.
I hope GWAU goes bankrupt as a division, I hope they pull their stores out of Australia... this is what Wells and co must be aiming for after all.
The issue with GW is not the prices... it's their treatment of their resellers, their loyal veterans, and the hobby in general.
Games Workshop was started as a business to cater for wargammers and they strived to support the veterans of the game... the Stock Exchange version was to make money for themselves... only.... and feth the veteran gamers.
Wells and co started as employees on 50/60K a year... now nearly half a million as a director... don't kid yourself that it's just a business like all the others. It's a high end niche market toy soldier maker... how can you compare that to Levi or Microsoft or Tescos... please play in perspective... GW is valued by 31 milion shares... not that big in the business world.
Prices always move up and down... but loyalty is earned
I started playing the GW game as an adult and I spent thousands of dollars because I supported GW as an entity that supported me... the decline started for me when they took my beloved 'Epic' out of their stores... and I am still loyal... for now
Mr Mystery wrote:It's all about it being your hobby.
Believe it or not, but GW staff are told to engage with the customer about the customer's hobby, and not their own hobby, or even the 'whole' hobby. If you like painting, I'd chat to you about that. If you like converting and scratchbuilding, I'd find out about your favourites etc, enquire after your next project.
There is of course the necessary product link, the company is after there to make money. But I can guarantee you when it's done right (I guess that be the tricky bit!) you have a happy customer, even if they haven't bought anything. Hell, I'd settle for a sign up to the website.
this has never ever been my experience with GW staff. Only one maganer had ever been friendly, helpful and actually inclined to go beyond the GW brand, the rest have been repugnant condescending [self-censored], surrounded by repugnant condescending like-minded customer-friend[self-censored]. Simply put, if I'm more interested in having fun, and they're condescending to me because they're hard-wired for tournament play... I even got into an argument with an employee, and he'd gotten quite condescending when I told him gaunts were expensive. He told me that back in 2001 they used to be $32, so their being $28 was actually a reduction. It took me a while to prove to him he was lying through his teeth, because in 2001 a box of gaunts came with 16 terma- and 16 horma- gaunts, as opposed to the just 16 now.
These are all experiences I've heard repeated on the west coast and eastern canada too..
Mind youj, now that i think about it, [self-censored]-salesreps seem to be a growing trend. The customer always seems to be right the moment he intends on buying something, but should the customer be disinclined or unconvinced to buy anything, then they just start berating you...
If you feel so strongly about it, and all the others who plan to boycott gw, why don't you travel to your countries HQ and protest, anyone could say that they are going to join in on the internet and then the next day go and pick up a battleforce
Mantle wrote:If you feel so strongly about it, and all the others who plan to boycott gw, why don't you travel to your countries HQ and protest, anyone could say that they are going to join in on the internet and then the next day go and pick up a battleforce
That won't work so well in the states. People might travel one to two thousand miles to Memphis, but after packing a sign in front of GWHQ in the heat and humidity for longer than 10 minutes, they'll quit and head for the nearby beer and barbeque. Then probably get a game in at the bunker, see something shiny, forget why they came, and buy the new models.
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Dysartes wrote:
nosferatu1001 wrote:GW is a hobby (not "THE" hobby, just "A" hobby, for all those failing to understand the difference) and you are free to leave it at any time.
No, GW is a large company within the wargaming hobby, not a hobby unto themselves, no matter what their "marketing" might tell you. Yes, they are influential. Yes, they are a "gateway drug" for a lot of starters within the wargaming hobby.
No, there is no such thing as the "GW Hobby".....
Depends on your point of view, and relative to each individual. If someone only collects and paints GW models, then that's their hobby.
People get all bent out of shape when GW says "the GW hobby", and it's just a waste of energy. Doesn't change anything. People that 'play warhammer' won't suddenly wake up and say "OMG, no! It's 'I Wargame!' not 'I play Warhammer'. "
It's as silly as if someone on another board through a fit because you said "The Wargaming Hobby", and they consider it "Gaming".
boyd wrote:a boycott cannot work if you're only doing it a day. The reason the boycott of the bus system worked for MLK Jr in the South was that it went for much longer than 1 day. It was several months. The Black Community took cabs driven by black drivers or walked. Unless you're going to make a permanent change, you're not going to make any meaningful impact.
Heh, I like that boycotting a model manufacturing company for stupid business decisions was compared to boycotting city transportation for racial segregation.
boyd wrote:a boycott cannot work if you're only doing it a day. The reason the boycott of the bus system worked for MLK Jr in the South was that it went for much longer than 1 day. It was several months. The Black Community took cabs driven by black drivers or walked. Unless you're going to make a permanent change, you're not going to make any meaningful impact.
Heh, I like that boycotting a model manufacturing company for stupid business decisions was compared to boycotting city transportation for racial segregation.
How we love GW.
I particularly like the bit where this thread has continued 7 pages past its original end...
and continues to go around... and around... and around...
boyd wrote:a boycott cannot work if you're only doing it a day. The reason the boycott of the bus system worked for MLK Jr in the South was that it went for much longer than 1 day. It was several months. The Black Community took cabs driven by black drivers or walked. Unless you're going to make a permanent change, you're not going to make any meaningful impact.
Heh, I like that boycotting a model manufacturing company for stupid business decisions was compared to boycotting city transportation for racial segregation.
How we love GW.
I particularly like the bit where this thread has continued 7 pages past its original end...
and continues to go around... and around... and around...
hey guys, there is an event I found on Facebook, which is basically to boycott Games Workshop for a day. I, personally think it's a great idea, as this would send a clear message to Games Workshop to lower the prices, if they d[b]on't they will find there sales decrease as you guys show that this unescecary rise will not be tolerated. If you feel strgonyly enough about this, then attend the event! its simple, on that one day, don't go into games workshop and don't purchase anything! Please spread this information, and you can make a difference! :six
boyd wrote:a boycott cannot work if you're only doing it a day. The reason the boycott of the bus system worked for MLK Jr in the South was that it went for much longer than 1 day. It was several months. The Black Community took cabs driven by black drivers or walked. Unless you're going to make a permanent change, you're not going to make any meaningful impact.
Heh, I like that boycotting a model manufacturing company for stupid business decisions was compared to boycotting city transportation for racial segregation.
How we love GW.
I particularly like the bit where this thread has continued 7 pages past its original end...
and continues to go around... and around... and around...
hey guys, there is an event I found on Facebook, which is basically to boycott Games Workshop for a day. I, personally think it's a great idea, as this would send a clear message to Games Workshop to lower the prices, if they d[b]on't they will find there sales decrease as you guys show that this unescecary rise will not be tolerated. If you feel strgonyly enough about this, then attend the event! its simple, on that one day, don't go into games workshop and don't purchase anything! Please spread this information, and you can make a difference! :six
Sarigar wrote:Meh. I bought the new DE Scourges today. I'm typically pretty judicious with my purchases anyways.
I googled "judicious", still I am not sure if I understood the sentence.
It means that he is careful to buy things that he is absolutely sure he wants. Probably doing research, theorycrafting, or playtesting before hand to make sure he's not wasting money.
Once again the fractured GW community comes through with another "web gem".
Most people won't be going into a GW store on July 4th anyway. So it doesn't matter. The stores will probably be on reduced hours (the few that are open, because July 4th falls on a Monday and the one man stores are closed on Monday and Tuesday.)
Dumbest idea ever. They won't even notice anyone was "boycotting". But I guess that will cut down on the "Welcome back, we missed you" ribbing on Wednesday the 6th, as a bunch of sheepish internet warriors trundle into their local GW store and buy new Finecast models.
I will say that this amuses me. Enough to break my personal moratorium on July 4th (my store is in a mall and will be open) to get a new Seer Council so I have something to work on at work that night.
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AvatarForm wrote:
Pen≥Sword wrote:
boyd wrote:a boycott cannot work if you're only doing it a day. The reason the boycott of the bus system worked for MLK Jr in the South was that it went for much longer than 1 day. It was several months. The Black Community took cabs driven by black drivers or walked. Unless you're going to make a permanent change, you're not going to make any meaningful impact.
Heh, I like that boycotting a model manufacturing company for stupid business decisions was compared to boycotting city transportation for racial segregation.
How we love GW.
I particularly like the bit where this thread has continued 7 pages past its original end...
and continues to go around... and around... and around...
I particularly like it when people complain about how a thread should have ended by posting in the thread.
It's pro.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Orlanth wrote:Any boycott has to be for a minimum of a quarter and get as many people as possible to pledge for a year.
Also the pledge should include a 'commitment' to still spend on the gaming materials from other companies, or Gw will think the boycott will only mean a save and spend.
The best way of doing that is not to boycott GW ut tom pledge that GW will only get one pound/dollar/euro in ten of the gaming money. Send the message that not only are yiou willing to not spend at GW but you are willing to spend elsewhere. That and only that will get their attention, as it threatens a permanent loss of custom.
Yes, because that makes perfect sense for the people who's only LGS is a GW Store that just happens to employ their friends. Becase it's all about GW failing.
Quit acting like abused spouses and hostages. You're neither.
Warnolo wrote:I'm already doing a boycott every day to games workshop because... goddamnit, who could buy any GW product every day?
Those of us that work for a living and manage their finances reasonably well?
7 Days in a week. As an American and strictly as a ballpark figure, let's say that the "average" GW product costs somewhere around $40.
So that would be about $280 a week. Times 4 weeks that comes out to: $1120. Which is less than my monthly Savings, Recreation and Strip Club budgets combined.
Warnolo wrote:I'm already doing a boycott every day to games workshop because... goddamnit, who could buy any GW product every day?
Those of us that work for a living and manage their finances reasonably well?
7 Days in a week. As an American and strictly as a ballpark figure, let's say that the "average" GW product costs somewhere around $40.
So that would be about $280 a week. Times 4 weeks that comes out to: $1120. Which is less than my monthly Savings, Recreation and Strip Club budgets combined.
Yes. I have a Strip Club budget.
Wage Slavery, how does it work?
Point of order: Where do you live and what's the median salary there? I'm above median, have a nicer job than just about anyone else I know, little debt and few bills, and the only way I could do that is if I lived in my parent's basement or something.
Warnolo wrote:I'm already doing a boycott every day to games workshop because... goddamnit, who could buy any GW product every day?
Those of us that work for a living and manage their finances reasonably well?
7 Days in a week. As an American and strictly as a ballpark figure, let's say that the "average" GW product costs somewhere around $40.
So that would be about $280 a week. Times 4 weeks that comes out to: $1120. Which is less than my monthly Savings, Recreation and Strip Club budgets combined.
Yes. I have a Strip Club budget.
Wage Slavery, how does it work?
Point of order: Where do you live and what's the median salary there? I'm above median, have a nicer job than just about anyone else I know, little debt and few bills, and the only way I could do that is if I lived in my parent's basement or something.
Obviously, your strip club budget is too high and you need to prioritise Wardollies, daedallus
Warnolo wrote:I'm already doing a boycott every day to games workshop because... goddamnit, who could buy any GW product every day?
Those of us that work for a living and manage their finances reasonably well?
7 Days in a week. As an American and strictly as a ballpark figure, let's say that the "average" GW product costs somewhere around $40.
So that would be about $280 a week. Times 4 weeks that comes out to: $1120. Which is less than my monthly Savings, Recreation and Strip Club budgets combined.
Yes. I have a Strip Club budget.
Wage Slavery, how does it work?
Point of order: Where do you live and what's the median salary there? I'm above median, have a nicer job than just about anyone else I know, little debt and few bills, and the only way I could do that is if I lived in my parent's basement or something.
Maryland and I've never checked. Do live with my mom, but that's due to her health issues and I take care of all of the home bills.
Worglock wrote:Once again the fractured GW community comes through with another "web gem".
Most people won't be going into a GW store on July 4th anyway. So it doesn't matter. The stores will probably be on reduced hours (the few that are open, because July 4th falls on a Monday and the one man stores are closed on Monday and Tuesday.)
Dumbest idea ever. They won't even notice anyone was "boycotting". But I guess that will cut down on the "Welcome back, we missed you" ribbing on Wednesday the 6th, as a bunch of sheepish internet warriors trundle into their local GW store and buy new Finecast models.
I will say that this amuses me. Enough to break my personal moratorium on July 4th (my store is in a mall and will be open) to get a new Seer Council so I have something to work on at work that night.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AvatarForm wrote:
Pen≥Sword wrote:
boyd wrote:a boycott cannot work if you're only doing it a day. The reason the boycott of the bus system worked for MLK Jr in the South was that it went for much longer than 1 day. It was several months. The Black Community took cabs driven by black drivers or walked. Unless you're going to make a permanent change, you're not going to make any meaningful impact.
Heh, I like that boycotting a model manufacturing company for stupid business decisions was compared to boycotting city transportation for racial segregation.
How we love GW.
I particularly like the bit where this thread has continued 7 pages past its original end...
and continues to go around... and around... and around...
I particularly like it when people complain about how a thread should have ended by posting in the thread.
It's pro.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Orlanth wrote:Any boycott has to be for a minimum of a quarter and get as many people as possible to pledge for a year.
Also the pledge should include a 'commitment' to still spend on the gaming materials from other companies, or Gw will think the boycott will only mean a save and spend.
The best way of doing that is not to boycott GW ut tom pledge that GW will only get one pound/dollar/euro in ten of the gaming money. Send the message that not only are yiou willing to not spend at GW but you are willing to spend elsewhere. That and only that will get their attention, as it threatens a permanent loss of custom.
Yes, because that makes perfect sense for the people who's only LGS is a GW Store that just happens to employ their friends. Becase it's all about GW failing.
Quit acting like abused spouses and hostages. You're neither.
Maryland and I've never checked. Do live with my mom, but that's due to her health issues and I take care of all of the home bills.
So I guess I do ok in IT.
Hmm. I'm in Missouri (STL). I'm guessing that you guys have higher median there. East coast is traditionally a higher cost of living area. Glad to hear it's working out for you at any rate.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AvatarForm wrote:
Obviously, your strip club budget is too high and you need to prioritise Wardollies, daedallus
For the record, we call it the alcohol, cocaine, and hooker budget.
Yes. Which completely boggles me on how anyone at GW is going to notice a "National Boycott Day" when few (if any) GW stores in the US are going to be open.
It really just sounds like the angry kids pulling a "Well I wasn't planning on buying anything on that day ANYWAY. (I'll get it on Wednesday when I get my lawn money.)"
The correct spelling is "sarcasm"... your definition must not originate from a true dictionary.
Ghidorah wrote:...the person(s) that don't get it.
This is where you fit in.
Ghidorah
Nice try, but your fail was epic.
Actually, his play on words was quite good. As a certified English teacher, I cast my approval on it-I'm sure Ghidorah knows the proper spelling and was having a bit of fun.
What about stores other than GW's, such a boycott could hurt them too. Actualy why not buy stuff from the nonGW stores, GW doesnt get as much profit from them.
Not as much of a dent, but it can be made to happen without a boycott, simply lower the price by $5 or so for a couple of months.
Infact if the price drop is significant enough, it could infact incourage people to buy the product at the discoulnted price, apon seeing a lose in sales, GW management looks for a solution and sees the nonGW stores selling out the wazoo, GW then attemps to make more sales by lowering the price.
IF they(GW) are smart enough to listen to whats going on.
timetowaste85 wrote:Actually, his play on words was quite good. As a certified English teacher, I cast my approval on it-I'm sure Ghidorah knows the proper spelling and was having a bit of fun.
Excellent. I'm glad somebody got it. Apparently, it's not as good a pun in written form as it is spoken. It seems to me that it would work better in writtin form, since 'sarcasm' and 'sarcHasm' sound the same audibly, but you can actually see the 'H' when written. Oh well.
AvatarForm, buddy, sending you a pm to explain the joke.
timetowaste85 wrote:Actually, his play on words was quite good. As a certified English teacher, I cast my approval on it-I'm sure Ghidorah knows the proper spelling and was having a bit of fun.
Excellent. I'm glad somebody got it. Apparently, it's not as good a pun in written form as it is spoken. It seems to me that it would work better in writtin form, since 'sarcasm' and 'sarcHasm' sound the same audibly, but you can actually see the 'H' when written. Oh well.
AvatarForm, buddy, sending you a pm to explain the joke.
Ghidorah
Here at Games Workshop, we also find humor funny, so we have put this joke on our official Games Workshop forums in order for the masses to enjoy. Those filthy, unwashed masses.
Anywho, we are now sending you a bill for $5,000 (US) or $15,000 (AU) for infringing on the copyright of our joke.
Vice_Grip wrote:What about stores other than GW's, such a boycott could hurt them too. Actualy why not buy stuff from the nonGW stores, GW doesnt get as much profit from them.
Not as much of a dent, but it can be made to happen without a boycott, simply lower the price by $5 or so for a couple of months.
Infact if the price drop is significant enough, it could infact incourage people to buy the product at the discoulnted price, apon seeing a lose in sales, GW management looks for a solution and sees the nonGW stores selling out the wazoo, GW then attemps to make more sales by lowering the price.
IF they(GW) are smart enough to listen to whats going on.
Nope, if they see discounters selling more of their product, they will work to curtail those sales, not drop prices. That's easily shown through past and current actions.
I like your option to shop at your local non-GW better. Everyone should rush out that day and skip the GW stores, and buy from your FLGS.
A biased opinion, obviously.)
mikhaila wrote:Everyone should rush out that day and skip the GW stores, and buy from your FLGS.
That won't hurt GW one bit. They're still selling product which means they're still making money.
Ghidorah
Who cares? The boycott thing is silly in the first place. July 4th is not a good day for it, with most GW stores closed, and many independents as well.
I'm not worried about hurting GW, as it would hurt me as well. Most gamers don't care either, the ones who want to buy models will still buy models. Waiting until the 5th doesn't really send much of a message.)
I just like the idea of all the guys who go to GW stores shifting sales to support their LGS.
A friend brought this thread to my attention, and I thank him for that. The dripping "sarchasm" in this thread is amazing.
On another note, I'm also an owner of a FLGS and would like to bring a point to light that you may not be away of:
The orders are done on a weekly basis! Amazing, but if you boycott one day, and then go in the next to buy the stuff you didn't get, it will not impact numbers at all. This goes doubly if it's on a holiday, like July 4th.
Even if the numbers were examined, they would say: "Oh, look, the sales were down on July 4th. Must be because of the holiday. Yep, we see a rise in sales the day after. I guess people wanted to spend time with their families on the holiday and waited until the next day to buy their stuff."
For the FLGS, the product on their shelves has already been paid for. When they order the product, the either have to pay GW directly for it, or they have to pay the distributor that they went through. If you boycott a day, a week, or a month of GW sales at your FLGS, the only people you are hurting are the people that run the place you play. I order a restock of everything that sold from the pevious week every Monday. When I order it, the store pays for it.
I like your option to shop at your local non-GW better. Everyone should rush out that day and skip the GW stores, and buy from your FLGS.
A biased opinion, obviously.)
I agree here, in no way shape or form do I desire to harm the FLGS, who allows me a place to buy my gaming producs, and at the same time might allow me to use a table in order to play a game if they have the space.
I have a better idea. Just stop buying their models. I like their rules, and I love Warhammer, but I don't need Citadel miniatures for what I want to do. I'm currently building a Warriors of Chaos army using no GW miniatures. I'm doing it as a Viking army, and using the excellent Wargames Factory plastics for Marauders, and using models that I've found from Reaper, Warlord and other companies to make up the small units of Warriors, Chosen, Warhounds and Marauder Horsemen that I'm using. Not a GW model in sight! But this isn't in protest, it's simply doing what I love with cheaper, better products. If GW were to put out models that I liked for competative prices, I would buy them. So although I'm not boycotting GW, the effect is the same, and in a lot of ways I think more indicative of what is happening throughout the community.
I have to agree with idea of boycotting GW products full stop rather than boycotting them for short period of time. The average 40k customer would probably go a week to a month in between sales anyway so GW would still be winning in the end. Given new content for any particular faction is usually 4-5 years in between, it’s not like players would be missing out on new stuff anyway if they were to boycott for an extended period of time.
Plus once you’ve experienced the customer support, rules support and frequent rules updates from companies such as PP and FFG, there’s no turning back.
As many people have already said if you don't like the company stop buying their products. period. It's really simple. There are loads of other miniature companies and games systems (some free) out there.
The only thing that annoys me about this boycott is that 2 of the 3 facebook accounts who set it up are anonymous (ie not using their real names, and ironically one is using loads of GW fluff as their bio http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=226381417388469#!/profile.php?id=100001827596482 ), and these guys are asking real people to put their real names to a petition that 2 of the event organizers wont sign with their real names themselves.
I'd like to see a price reduction too but the logic of asking a luxury item company (and warhammer/40K is a MAJOR luxury item) with a niche market not to raise prices during a global recession escapes me
Please spread this information, and you can make a difference! 
, so much truth in so few sentences!!
the borg/
