So, I am having 0 success with my Grey Knights. Last night, went up against my buddies Dark Eldar army. My other buddy who plays daemons was there as well, so we thought for fun, we'd make it a 1v1v1 where the daemons would come in randomly and just kill anyone. We played 1500pts for me and the DE player, and 1000pts for the Daemons. What it turned out to be was the Daemons and me vs the Dark Eldar, and he destroyed me. In fact, I probably would have been tabled by turn 3 if it wasn't for the Daemons speed bump he ran over.

I was running

Brotherhood Champ
Coateaz
2x Jokearo + 3 melta warriors in Chimera
10 x Death cult assasins in Stormraven
Venerable dread with 2 x Autocannons
Regular dread with 2 x Autocannons
5x Grey Knights w/ psycannon in Psyback
5x Grey Knights w/ psycannon in Psyback


He blew up my vehicles right away, and just picked off my guys. I guess luck was on his side to with always having a 5++ on his vehicles and always making it.

My biggest problem is, I have no clue how to play this army. Do I sit back and shoot? Do I charge up and attack? What do I do :S

Edit. I've had a lot of helpful replies. If you're going to reply, please read the other replies first so I don't have to keep repeating myself
Thank you.

I dont play GK, but i can tell you ... you need more troops ... Death Cult assassins? Seriously man

Yea DCA's. 20 (30 on the charge) S4 I6 power weapon attacks. For 150 points. And I had 4 troop choices for a 1500 pt list.

Well, you were playing DE, so, these guys move fast, dont really hit that hard physically, do a fiar few attacks, and only start to get ''stay-alive-able'' after they've killed their first target.

For a start, your storm bolters would go through allll their standard armour, so, more Grey Knights would be good.

Power Weapons vs DE are only going to come into play if they get thier first pain token, aside from that, i'd just unload a ton of storm bolter then assault them.

Your Autocannons SHOULD have been able to drop any of their trasports, so good call there . . .

Tbh, ive played against Coteaz, and in my honest opinion ... he's not THAT good.

As for the monkeys, what do they do?

It largely depends on what type of DE army he brought as you only have 6 vehicles in this army, and only 3 being transports. I know id I played you with my DE I would pop all of theose transports, use wyches to tie up the dreads and stay out of your 24in threat range.

Grey knights is a mid range shooting army with strong counter attack capabilities. Your strategy should be to get your PA knights to within 24 inches and hose his things down. Dark eldar help with that because they bring the fight straight to you. Looking at your list I can't say much for the inquisition guys cuz i haven't used them, but strike squads are crap. Change your brotherhood champion to Crowe and take 2 squads of purifiers. They get more attacks, more psycannons, cleansing flame and cheaper upgrades. As for psybacks, I prefer base rhinos. They are cheaper and your two purifiers with psycannons can fire out of the ports. Dreads look good. Try to keep them in the back and in cover.

Jamora wrote:So, I am having 0 success with my Grey Knights. Last night, went up against my buddies Dark Eldar army. My other buddy who plays daemons was there as well, so we thought for fun, we'd make it a 1v1v1 where the daemons would come in randomly and just kill anyone. We played 1500pts for me and the DE player, and 1000pts for the Daemons. What it turned out to be was the Daemons and me vs the Dark Eldar, and he destroyed me. In fact, I probably would have been tabled by turn 3 if it wasn't for the Daemons speed bump he ran over.

I was running

Brotherhood Champ
Coateaz
2x Jokearo + 3 melta warriors in Chimera
10 x Death cult assasins in Stormraven
Venerable dread with 2 x Autocannons
Regular dread with 2 x Autocannons
5x Grey Knights w/ psycannon in Psyback
5x Grey Knights w/ psycannon in Psyback


He blew up my vehicles right away, and just picked off my guys. I guess luck was on his side to with always having a 5++ on his vehicles and always making it.

My biggest problem is, I have no clue how to play this army. Do I sit back and shoot? Do I charge up and attack? What do I do :S

Most players would go with a 3 crusader/7dca mix

Storm ravens are a difficult unit to master

If you really want to play with a monkey go with 1 squad of servitors with a monkey and coteaz attached to prevent servo lock. Try to stick with just 1. Monkey per unit, they are expensive.

Dump the vendread for a 3rd regular dread.

Play more games, gk is actually not a user friendly meq army. It is a powerful dex, but aside from the psylfmen its not user friendly.

strike squads are not crap. Crowe on the other hand, is pretty crap. Unless you base your list around him then he's going to be a free kill point. Psybacks also have a place in grey knight armies, namely decent fire above 24 inches.

I do agree that grey knights are a mid range shooty army. The best way to combat dark eldar is by adding in longer range fire that can de-mech them as soon as possible, so your psyflemen and the psybacks are both good choices.

The main benefits of death cult assassins are that they will generally strike before their opponents and negate armour, but against dark eldar, this isn't going to be that much help because their combat units will strike before you and they have poor amour, so running into them with the death cult isn't the best idea. Using them as a counter attack unit is more likely to bring you success.

Back to strike squads, consider getting 2 full strike squad units with psycannons and psybolt ammo with psybacks. These come in around 500 but provide excellent firepower for a relatively cheap unit.
Hiding grey knights in vehicles plays against the strength of the codex, ie. lots of assault weapons, so grey knights do not play the same way that other mech-marine armies play.

Sorry about this post, it is not very coherant but i have tried to get a few points in.

If you are interested, I know of several resources for grey knights tactica that you might find useful. Just let me know and I'll link them.

I'd love those links Bedeporter. Anything to make me a better player

Jamora 1 note that know one seems to have caught is you are devalueing DCA.

DCA have 2 attacks base + 2 powers weapons, this means with 10 x DCA they have 30 attacks and 40 on the charge. not the 20/30 you said you were playing them as.

Bedeporter you can't stuff 10 guys in psybacks because of troop capacity limits. Psybacks are something that's been debated since the codex was released. I personally prefer rhinos because I can stick 2 psycannons out and get 4 shots on the move plus I don't like putting a lot of points into troop transports that could be popped first turn. As for Crowe, nobody really likes him but he can still be good. Have him hug the back of rhino and stroll forward and use him as an independent character/ monstrous creature killer. I'd trade my Crowe for a hive tyrant or something equally destructive any day. Heck even a tarpit model. I've read battle reports where people charge him into a unit just to use his ability to re roll saves and keep a unit locked in combat and Crowe stilled lived! Purifiers cleansing flame ability can even make up for low model count.

It looks like you are trying to be both ranged and close combat at the same time. I've found that you need to be either strong ranged with a countercharge unit, or strong close combat with just enough ranged weapons to bring down fast transports... like Dark Eldar have.

Thinking this way, GK bring their own countercharge as it is... power weapons, psy powers, etc. So I'd drop the Brother Champ (don't need 2 HQ at 1.5k) the DCA's and the Stormraven. Add in more Melta-Chimeras, Knights with Razorbacks, and Riflemen.

Don't forget that against Dark Eldar, range is your friend. Line up at the board edge and use your Riflemen range to force him to come to you if the terrain is open. Don't just charge ahead and let his anti-armor toys rip you open.

Bro champs are not so good. Jokearo are not a good combo with melta warriors. Jokearo are a good combo with servitors, if you stick an inquisitor with them. Melta warriors are good by themselves or with DCA/crusaders. DCA are better when they have some crusaders with them. Those autocannon dreads had better have psyammunition.

I think that you could re-arrange your transports and a have a more effective army.


1) Coteaz + Jokaero unit in a Chimera works well for me. Keep it.


2) Henchmen Assault Squads. They come in 2 forms.

a) The "Henchstar", 5 DCA + 5 Crusaders + Rad-Hammer Character (either Xeno Inq or Techmarine)
Deadly in combat, durable, and probably the best way to go for a large squad
You will probably want a Storm Raven or Land Raider for a squad like this. The issue is that SR and LR have HUGE target priority issues if you only take one of them.

b) The "one and done" squad. 5-6 DCA + Razorback. (Probably Heavy Bolter+Psybolt Ammo)
this gives you shooting at range, and 5 DCA are very cheap and are enough to kill most of a unit of marines on the charge. They only need to kill one unit to be worth while.



3) Strike Squad: I think these guys work best in 10 man units in a Rhino. 2 Psycannons, and Psybolt Ammo as a maybel. With that they are durable, and they have enough attack in close combat to start to be a threat as well. Shoot first, kill a bunch of dudes, then attack and finish stuff off.



I think that the Bro-Champ is just not good. Take a Xeno Inquisitor for close combat buffs instead.

A good second HQ is a Librarian. He can ride in the Chimera with Coteaz and the Jokaero

Quicksilver is great for Strike Squads, as they do not need halberds to hit first.
Might of Titan is death incarnate to vehicles.
Sanctuary is great as well (but you already have it with coteaz)
Shrouding is good so all of your tanks can get a 5+ Cover save. (maybe even a 3+ if you use smoke)
Summoning is worth thinking about as you can combine it with a mystic so you do not scatter.

That being said, the Librarian in not needed in a list like this.


Here is what I think your list could look like instead. (rough Estimate, not exact points or anything)

Coteaz + Jokaero unit + Chimera

5 DCA + Razorback
5 DCA + Razorback

10 Strikers + Rhino
10 Strikers + Rhino

Add Psy-rifle Dreads to taste. Consider a Librarian

Essentially you have a shooting list with the Strikers, Dreads, Jokearo, and transports.
The DCA are counter charge units, taking out whatever makes it to your lines. Sanctuary (from coteaz) helps to protect against Massed assaults as well

Why is it a 5++ with the libby? I thought you only got a 6++ out in the open?

Why would you take a venerable rifleman dread if you have open slots for other regular dreads? Thats really my only comment...

Because Ven Dreads are better.

Lukus83 wrote:Because Ven Dreads are better.

But you're not really getting any benefit for the extra cost if your only weapons are 2 twin-linked autocannons...

Venerable means much greater resilience against damaging hits. You decrease the probability of getting destroyed results, turning them into shaken/stunned sometimes, which you can shake off. Longer survival means more damage out. The increased reliability on ballistic skill is icing on the Venerable cake.

chaos0xomega wrote:

Lukus83 wrote:Because Ven Dreads are better.

But you're not really getting any benefit for the extra cost if your only weapons are 2 twin-linked autocannons...

It makes them that much more difficult to stop shooting at you.

Not only that, but a damaged Ven Dread on an objective can still claim it if you have taken a GKGM and it's also not a KP until you get rid of it...much harder to do than with a regular Dread. For a 60pt increase in points you get 3x the survivability.

Lukus83 wrote:Not only that, but a damaged Ven Dread on an objective can still claim it if you have taken a GKGM and it's also not a KP until you get rid of it...much harder to do than with a regular Dread. For a 60pt increase in points you get 3x the survivability.

Three times the survivability? Any numbers to back that up, because that seems blatantly wrong.

If, on penetrating hits, you only venerable away 'destroyed' results, you are 1/3 as likely to take a destroyed result on a Vendread.

Venerables are amazing, but at 1500pts, it's rather difficult to justify the cost. Not to say it can't be done, some people have had much success with them... but for the majority of players, as well as someone who is brand new and struggling with his army, I think it would benefit you to drop him in favor of a regular dread and using the spare points to boost the rest of your forces

I had 50 points to blow, so I put it on my dread. Just testing it out.

Why is shrouding a 5++?

A wrecked or explodes result is 1 in 3. Now if you get a re-roll you reduce the chance to 1 in 9. Of course you could rack up some damage results but until it's wrecked it's not a KP and if it's on an objective it can still score (if you take a GKGM).

Lukus83 wrote:A wrecked or explodes result is 1 in 3. Now if you get a re-roll you reduce the chance to 1 in 9. Of course you could rack up some damage results but until it's wrecked it's not a KP and if it's on an objective it can still score (if you take a GKGM).

You still suffer fully on glances and your penetrating destroyed results are likely to become weapon destroyed or immobilized. I'd say twice as survivable is a fair statement, but then again you cost 50% more points for an extremely minor amount of increased firepower. Venerables are viable in some builds, like if they are your only dreads/vehicles.

l0k1 wrote:Bedeporter you can't stuff 10 guys in psybacks because of troop capacity limits. Psybacks are something that's been debated since the codex was released. I personally prefer rhinos because I can stick 2 psycannons out and get 4 shots on the move plus I don't like putting a lot of points into troop transports that could be popped first turn. As for Crowe, nobody really likes him but he can still be good. Have him hug the back of rhino and stroll forward and use him as an independent character/ monstrous creature killer. I'd trade my Crowe for a hive tyrant or something equally destructive any day. Heck even a tarpit model. I've read battle reports where people charge him into a unit just to use his ability to re roll saves and keep a unit locked in combat and Crowe stilled lived! Purifiers cleansing flame ability can even make up for low model count.

I know you can't, but like I said, putting grey knights in their transports plays against the strengths of the codex. Other marine armies hide in their transports because they've generally got nothing better to be doing and can shoot the weapons that hurt out of fire points. With Grey Knights, every model has a weapon that can hurt, so hiding them away is counter productive. With an extra low model count, maximising your offensive output is the most important thing because you need to level the playing field with your opponent. 8, strenth 5 storm bolters, 2 psycannons and a strength 6 heavy bolter is more dangerous than 2 psycannons and one storm bolter with a cost difference of only 30 points.
Giving the unit a transport adds extra utility. firstly, it allows a combat squad to hide inside for extra movement and secondly provides your opponent with target priority issues.

i agree that tarpitting/character deterrent is the most useful way for crowe to be used, but the character himself does not provide synergy with the list. He requires baby sitting and therefore is a distraction for one of your units. This is all my personal opinion of course.

Chaos, with regards to venerable dreads, they are incredibly survivable. Normal ven dreads are survivable, but GK vens provide a platform that is very hard to destroy and almost impossible to stop shooting without psychic defenses. This forces you opponent to shoot more of his firepower at that dread which in turn increases the time that other vehicles will survive. So ven dreads do more for the army than just shoot more accurately, which is why people choose ven dreads.

Jamora wrote:
Why is shrouding a 5++?

I thought that the 6+ Cover + Stealth would make a 5+

BUT

It would seem that I am wrong after a careful re-read of the spell.

Its unfortunate that this thread became a Venerable Vs Non Venerable dread debate. I already know that Ven dreads are more effective then non Vens.

As for the Henchstar unit ( 5x DCA + 5x Cru ), I wrote it into my main list but switched it out for 2 reasons.
1, I have no models for it and don't feel like making them.
2, I understand making them more survivable, but I would be using them for what they are. Cheap Assassins. I would point them at the unit I want dead, and have them killed.

Svendrex, I studied your article on Henchmen in 5th for a good 5 hours or so (flight to and from work camp), and really enjoyed it. I use it as a basis for all my lists. Both my 10 x DCA and Jokaero units were derived from it. So any advice you have will be taken to heart. I just love thinking outside the norm.

Bedeporter, I'm enjoying reading your advice. It's making me re-think my lists a bit. And I was considering adding crowe to my list anyways. The brotherhood champ was a bust. He was absolutely terrible. Took him 3 rounds to kill a single DE biker. I'm going to do some point break downs and some list building to see how many Purifiers or Strike Squads I can get in my list while still fitting at least 2 dreads, 2 stormravens and as many vehicles as possible.

Drop the Stormraven. You need a more reliable transport like a Land Raider to get those Assassins where you need them. Also fill out your heavy slots with Psyflemen Dreads. I would also recommend you take Servitors w/meltas instead of warriors. You can make a pretty nasty unit if you combine Corteaz with 1 monkey, 3 Servitors w/meltas. I would also recommend the techmarine too. With the techmarines ability to carry various grenades you can enhance your Corteaz retinue. I would also drop the Bro Champion from you list. I personally like the Bro Champion but in your list he is just sucking up points. Dropping him would allow you to give your DCA a LRC after you dump the StormRaven.

Well, I will definitely not be dropping the Stormraven. My lists will be tailored for 1850 or 2000 points. However, I may consider adding a LR to the army instead of my 2nd Stormraven. Plus, If I take a LR, my HS slots ARE already filled with Dreads with the 2 I currently have.

The techmarine is a good point. I've been mulling that over in my head for awhile. Statistically however, 2 jokaero's in a unit is your best option of getting the most out of the monkeys, not having a single one.

The bro champ was a one time thing. Wanted to try him out, and he blew it horribly.

I'm not sure what the servitors have over the warriors besides being more costly and having to be babysat by my inquisitor.

Your list doens't really have a focus. Your trying to do a henchman/strike hybrid, which is fine, but you don't have much from either. Your henchman are further divided by one being assaulty and the other being shooty.

.

bedeporter wrote:strike squads are not crap. Crowe on the other hand, is pretty crap. Unless you base your list around him then he's going to be a free kill point

put him in a transport,preferably a LR or SR and drive pell mell at a powerful 1 man unitt like greater deamons and hive tyrants,disembark,assault.if you win,repeat.if you die use last stand thing and hit on 3+ usually.bye bye warlord class battle titan!

ChaosLordSam wrote:No, you are not, you just need more troops.

As I said before, 4 troop choices at 1500pts. Not that bad.
My Regular list for 1850 and 2000 are:

Sons Of Leonidas
1850

Cotaez - 100pts
Brotherhood Champion - 100pts

5 x Crusaders + 5 x DCA (mounted in Stormraven) - 150
2 x Jokaero's + 3 Melta Warriors in Chimera - 167
2 x Jokaero's + 3 Melta Warriors in Chimera - 167
6 Man Strike Squad w/Halberds + 1 Psycannon in Psyback - 215
5 Man Strike Squad w/Halberds + 1 Psycannon in Psyback - 195

Stormraven w/ Melta and Side Sponsons - 235
Stormraven w/ Melta and Side Sponsons - 235

Dreadnought w/ 2x Autocannons + Psybolt - 135
Dreadnought w/ 2x Autocannons + Psybolt - 135

Total: 1834


Sons Of Leonidas
2000

Cotaez - 100pts
Brotherhood Champion - 100pts

5 x Crusaders + 5 x DCA (mounted in Stormraven) - 150
2 x Jokaero's + 3 Melta Warriors in Chimera - 167
2 x Jokaero's + 3 Melta Warriors in Chimera - 167
6 Man Strike Squad w/Halberds + 1 Psycannon in Psyback - 215
6 Man Strike Squad w/Halberds + 1 Psycannon in Psyback - 215

Stormraven w/ Melta and Side Sponsons - 235
Stormraven w/ Melta and Side Sponsons - 235

Dreadnought w/ 2x Autocannons + Psybolt - 135
Dreadnought w/ 2x Autocannons + Psybolt - 135
Dreadnought w/ 2x Autocannons + Psybolt - 135

Total: 1989


So this game was like tryin out some of the units on a smaller scale.

looks good,where you get the name Leonidas from,itsd a good one i might nick it off you.im glad to see you didnt leave PAs with swords

The thing I see that is glaring to me, is that you put Jokero, who can hang back and shoot lascannons at range in with models that only work at short range, so, if you are trucking up the field to melta something, the Jokero are wasted points, and if you are hanging back and plinking at tanks with the lascannons, the melta guys are wasted points unless I am missing something.

Also possibly dropping the champion and taking a techmarine with a rad grenade to ride along with the DCA to make them extra nasty would probably help as well.

As far as halberds on strike squads, except for the Justicar, I really can't justify to myself the cost of putting them there when for a single point more, you can get purifiers that have the extra attack on them base plus the ability to light your enemies on fire before combat, plus take twice the amount of psycannons. Generally, I also take a MC hammer on the Justicar of any squad just in case I run into a big ugly or a tank that needs killing

I'm still trying to find a great list that I like for Grey Knights, but I know that my old metal knights all toting halberds are going to be almost all purifiers. Just before I start building a list there is about 700ish points of stuff I want to toss in every list just because it's useful:

Librarian (utility out the wazoo)
Vindicare (4d6 ap1 armor penetration)
Techmarine with Rad Grenade (give vindy 2+ cover save, add extra punch to a melee squad and cheaper servo skulls)
and 2 Psiflemen.

I'm also a fan of 10 man squads with a psiberback, depending on what your opponent is bringing to the battle, combat squad or not, one group can go up the field, the other can stay around midfield and shoot the psicannons, and the razor can either tote around the advancing force, or provide mobile fire support/cover

Norsehawk wrote:The thing I see that is glaring to me, is that you put Jokero, who can hang back and shoot lascannons at range in with models that only work at short range, so, if you are trucking up the field to melta something, the Jokero are wasted points, and if you are hanging back and plinking at tanks with the lascannons, the melta guys are wasted points unless I am missing something.

Also possibly dropping the champion and taking a techmarine with a rad grenade to ride along with the DCA to make them extra nasty would probably help as well.

As far as halberds on strike squads, except for the Justicar, I really can't justify to myself the cost of putting them there when for a single point more, you can get purifiers that have the extra attack on them base plus the ability to light your enemies on fire before combat, plus take twice the amount of psycannons. Generally, I also take a MC hammer on the Justicar of any squad just in case I run into a big ugly or a tank that needs killing

I'm still trying to find a great list that I like for Grey Knights, but I know that my old metal knights all toting halberds are going to be almost all purifiers. Just before I start building a list there is about 700ish points of stuff I want to toss in every list just because it's useful:

Librarian (utility out the wazoo)
Vindicare (4d6 ap1 armor penetration)
Techmarine with Rad Grenade (give vindy 2+ cover save, add extra punch to a melee squad and cheaper servo skulls)
and 2 Psiflemen.

I'm also a fan of 10 man squads with a psiberback, depending on what your opponent is bringing to the battle, combat squad or not, one group can go up the field, the other can stay around midfield and shoot the psicannons, and the razor can either tote around the advancing force, or provide mobile fire support/cover

The reason I threw Melta's in with the Jokaero's is for when things get in my face. Most of the game they were useless, but when he turbo boosted right next to em to unload his guys on my objective, they melta's the transport, blew it up and killed half his guys.

I tried the Vindicare in my list before. He was good, but my dreads out performed him hardcore. Granted, whatever he pointed at died, but it was the same for my dreads (that game). Just felt like over kill. Plus he was really squishy.

what i do is take a real cheap IC and jointhe assassin,and allocate on the IC so the assassin can survive

I run coteaz henchmen spam so I know where you're coming from but your units are really all over the place. I run *almost* the exact same DCA+crusader unit (difference is 6 assassins and 4 cursaders) out of a stormraven as well, and they are typically my mvps in most games, so I think that's fine.

The problem with your jokearo is that they don't mix well. Servitors are fine, because everyone has heavy weapons, but warriors not so much. The one and only buff that aids melta warriors is the range increase, and you can't rely on getting that more than once every couple of games. Other than that, those 2 really don't work well together, because 1 is a short range assault weapon that needs to be up close, and the other is long range and needs to stand still in order to shoot. Jokaero buffs also don't apply to ICs that you attach to the unit, so keep that in mind. The monkeys are rather difficult to work with and it takes careful planning to make them fit in.

As to your strike squads, I have sorry news for you. Building an identical unit of 6 purifiers with razorback would cost you 206, which is not only cheaper but superior in close combat thanks to +1 attack and cleansing flame. Strike squads are not built to assault, they are designed as mid range fire support that is very dangerous to assault. And no grey knight unit should ever, ever, be without a psycannon. SS do exactly 2 things well: fire support and warp quake. Use them for anything else and you will be disappointed.

If you are really desperate to make a close combat theme army, make those strike squads into purifiers. If you want to keep them as basic troops, drop the halberds and give them a cannon instead.

Drop the brotherhood champ too. He adds nothing at all to the army. People take GMs and libbys for a reason, because GMs can grand strat stuff and libbys buff up your units.

I would take at least one Vindicare assasin, or 2 , and stick him in a nice sniper spot.

Well, still working on it, but here's what I have:
Sons Of Leonidas
1850

Crowe - 150
Inquisitor - 25

2x Jokaero + 3x Heavy Bolter Servitors in Chimera - 155

5x Purifier - 3x Halberds + 2 Psycannons in Psyback - 196
5x Purifier - 3x Halberds + 2 Psycannons in Psyback - 196
5x Purifier - 3x Halberds + 2 Psycannons in Psyback - 196
5x Purifier - 3x Halberds + 2 Psycannons - 146

Stormraven w/ Melta and Side Sponsons - 235

Dreadnought w/ 2x Autocannons + Psybolt - 135
Dreadnought w/ 2x Autocannons + Psybolt - 135
Landraider Crusader w/Psybolt ammo - 260

Total: 1829

Trying to follow all the rules of list building, while still keeping my flavor. What I'm learning however is, I can't do what I wanted to do at all. Doing a 1/2 inquisitor 1/2 knight army just will not work for me.

What I need to keep to at least enjoy my army are the vehicles. The more the better. I also want to keep at least 1 Stormraven (already bought it, why waste it.) and possibly 1 more Stormraven or the land raider. I also wanted to work in 1 chimera and 3 Psibacks because I already have the models for them. But that seems to be tough.

I think the worst part is the lack of troops. I know a list of 3 squads of 6 Purifiers would get shut down due to not enough troops. But I DO NOT want to do a Purifier spam list.

Coming on here is kind of a damned if I do, damned if I don't situation. 70% of people tell me the same cut and past answers they read somewhere else which is just the generic list building boring crap. Luckily, 30% of the replies are new and inventive, forcing me to think and re-evaluate my list. I want to become a better player, not just throw down a generic internet spam list.

I hope none of that comes off as rude. I'm grateful for the people who are truly trying to help me evolve my game and my army.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

loota boy wrote:Drop the brotherhood champ too. He adds nothing at all to the army. People take GMs and libbys for a reason, because GMs can grand strat stuff and libbys buff up your units.

Already said I was dropping the champ.

I used to have a libby in my list. I acctually dropped it because of the point cost. Felt like I couldn't fit in enough goodies with the amount of points he soaked up. Dropped him, added a dread. The GM may help me out though with the lack of troop choices. I guess I'm resisting this because I want my list to stand out as non generic. However, maybe that's why I'm getting my butt handed to me :S

Librarian with a couple of powers is cheaper than GKGM. Far superior army boosting powers as well, if you ask me. Especially if you're want to do vehicle spam. A turboboosting raven with a librarian, or a mech line covered by smoke and shrouding is insanely tough to kill.

I still don't like that henchmen unit you made. What exactly are heavy bolters good for other than being cheap? Again, you are clearly relying on getting rending from the jokearo to get anything out of them, else you will be sorely disappointed with their effectiveness. Jokearo weapons and bolters don't mix unless your in flamer range, in which case you probably moved so the big guns can't shoot. Monkeys are fun and can be useful, but you really need to plan around using them, as I said before.

Here is a unit I would run with jokearo, as an example:
5 warriors with stormbolters, 2 jokaero in a chimera with flamer for 150 points. The unit can stand and shoot monkey lasers from afar if it had to, or charge forward and unload bolter and heavy flamers into enemy ranks. If you get the range or rending boost from the monkeys? So much the better because now your weapons are more powerful. But you don't have to rely on getting it to make good use of the unit

Ok, This will be my last post in here. I'll be making an Article. I'm going to challenge myself to play 15 games before the tournament I want to enter in September. But the army list I'm at now (Which is completely different than where I began) is:

Sons Of Leonidas
2000

Grey Knight Grand Master w/ Halberd +2 Servo Skulls, psychotroke grenade - 205
Crowe - 150

5x Purifier - 3x Halberds + 2 Psycannons in Psyback - 196
5x Purifier - 3x Halberds + 2 Psycannons in Psyback - 196
5x Purifier - 3x Halberds + 2 Psycannons in Psyback - 196
10x Purifier - 3x Halberds + 2 Psycannons, 5x Falchions (combat squaded in LR with Grand Master) - 291

Stormraven w/ Melta and Side Sponsons - 235

Dreadnought w/ 2x Autocannons + Psybolt - 135
Dreadnought w/ 2x Autocannons + Psybolt - 135
Landraider Crusader w/Psybolt ammo - 260

Total: 1999

It's a 2000 point tournament.

So, does the ten-man squad combat squad, and 5 go in storm raven and the other 5 in land raider? Also, I would keep the GM with a sword, because it increases his Iron Halo invul sv, so it gives him, essentially, a storm shield in cc. Also, don't take psybolt on the crusador, because it makes the hurricane bolters non-defensive weapons, so you can't fire them all on the move.

hmmmm, that is something I was unaware of. I was trying to think the big picture of upping the assault cannon to str 7, but that makes a lot of sense.

And yes, 5 in SR 5 in LR. I went with the Halberd because with it, I'll strike before pretty much everyone I go up against, including DE characters with Init 7. But definitely something to consider.

with a halberd,a GM strikes simultaneously with broodlords,Deathleaper,Lelith(i think),pheonix lords,and before anything else,not including modifiers such as halberds and FC

as far as im aware,only the keeper of secrets has base I higher than 7,being 10.

In reply to Deadshot, Lelith Hesperax actually has an initiative value of 9, and both the Succubus and Asdrubael Vect have Initiative 8. Both Drahzar and the Archon have Initiative 7 and everyone else is 6 or less.

I'm liking your new list. It may not be exactly what you wanted, but it stays somewhat close while not being the total cookie cutter. It has much more synergy this way.

I still think you would be better off with a libby than a gm though. I think the libbys utility and increased survivability for your land raider unit would be a huge bonus. And make sure you try a few games where you keep that purifier group as 10 and a few as combat squaded to see which you prefer

omerakk wrote:I'm liking your new list. It may not be exactly what you wanted, but it stays somewhat close while not being the total cookie cutter. It has much more synergy this way.

I still think you would be better off with a libby than a gm though. I think the libbys utility and increased survivability for your land raider unit would be a huge bonus. And make sure you try a few games where you keep that purifier group as 10 and a few as combat squaded to see which you prefer

Thank you.
My main reason for going with the GM is versitility. In games where scoring isin't as important, giving 1-3 units re-roll 1's to wound will be awesome. +1 to bring my SR from deepstrike will help out a lot, and he just seems fitting to lead a "Leonidas" like army. I'll throw him with my falchions, and have 20 init 4 Str 6 (double hammerhand) armor ignoring attacks rerolling 1's to wound, and 4 init 7 str 6 (same deal) armor ignoring attacks rerolling on 1's. Seems like a good unit to kill things. Might not throw em up against the toughest DE unit though

Kirjava wrote:In reply to Deadshot, Lelith Hesperax actually has an initiative value of 9, and both the Succubus and Asdrubael Vect have Initiative 8. Both Drahzar and the Archon have Initiative 7 and everyone else is 6 or less.

sorry.am only going by the old stats at back of BRB.thought they would be same or almost same.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jamora wrote:

omerakk wrote:double hammerhand

what you mean?