Hey folks,
I have an 100% GW ork army. It's my first (and only) since returning to the game last year. It's painted to a slightly higher than avg table top standard IMHO. However, I have not based them as I don't like how gentle you have to be with the flock with storage. I have read that several tourneys require basing. If the minis are painted to a high standard would basing still be required? Also I have conversions of WFB boar riders to "plays as" biker boyz. See my gallery for some cell phone pics. It's a theme army based on my Alma mater. The Orkansas Razurbax. Ok thanks for any replies.

Just put sand on the bases and say they are in a desert.

I'd try to get them on the proper Bike bases to stave off the odd hardcore complainer, but I don't see you having much trouble using them.

Tournaments not allowing or nocking points for unbased models is one of my pet peeves, mainly because I prefer unflocked straight black basses. However I have never been bared from a tournament for it, call up the TO, explain why you dont like or dont use basing and he should let you at least run them in the tournament, likely with just a small reduction in paint score.

I really hate basing rules.

'Hey guys, now that you've spent £20 on a box of 5 troops, how about you pay us some more money for flock just so you can pay?'

How about no. I fail to see why basing models is a necessity. I do base mine, but only using plasticard cut into small tile sections to give the appearance of urban tiling - but if somebody wants to play me I don't even particularly mind if their units are even painted, let alone based. For me, the painting & conversion side of the hobby is as fun as the battles, but I don't see why people should be forced to go through these procedures in order to play the game.

White glue is pretty cheap and sand is free, I fail to see the merits of your argument, Abstract Catalyst.

I fail to see why people should have to do anything to such an unimportant part of the model.

Oh and sand isn't free, to get anywhere near any 'free' sand I'd have to pay £20 in petrol. Plus, taking sand is stealing, and most sand would look awful on a model base.

The thing you aren't getting is that YOU think it is an unimportant part of the model, while most look at the entire thing placed on the table as the 'model'.

He's asking about what is acceptable at a tournament, not what is fine to play against you at whatever shop/your home. Tournaments generally expect completed models.

I never denied that un-based models wouldn't be accepted at a GW tournament, I was merely stating I think it's a pathetic reason to tell someone they can't play, especially if, like TS, they have otherwise put a lot of effort into their models.

Others see it differently, an un-based model is an unfinished model, according to most.

You don't need sand or flock... use plasticard and make ship decking...

or put yellow lines and make it a black asphalt.

Or go buy those clear bases.

The same people that claim 'I don't want to base' are the ones that say 'I don't want to paint' and 'I don't want to assemble arms so I can proxy' and 'I don't want to WYSIWYG.'

Tourneys require 3colors and based. It is not an unreasonable expectation and there are so many good ways to base all of the excuses are terrible. If you want to participate in the event, you follow their rules.

I can go get gravel out of the gutter in the street, glue it to a base and paint it and it will look great.

Another thread where some gamers try to force their expectations of what the hobby is on others. Fantastic.

Have to agree with the majority here. In my opinion, the base is just as much a part of the model as the weapons. Deciding not to base, when basing is a requirement, is like deciding not to WYSIWYG, when it also is a requirement.

Having said that, and more practically, if you call the TO and explain, I'm sure they'll let you play. You'll obviously lose the painting points for 'are the models based' though.

Most people find untidy post-painting bases ruin the model, but if you paint the bases back to their nice neat black after you've finished painting then people will have less of a problem with it...



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nkelsch wrote:You don't need sand or flock... use plasticard and make ship decking...

Or even just paint the bases as-is - they're textured on top, so they could just be painted and drybrushed.

ArbitorIan wrote:Or even just paint the bases as-is - they're textured on top, so they could just be painted and drybrushed.

I thought painting the bases didn't count as having 'based' the model? At least this is what I was told when I tried to enter a tourney with my green-based Tau a few years back.

Abstract Catalyst wrote:

ArbitorIan wrote:Or even just paint the bases as-is - they're textured on top, so they could just be painted and drybrushed.

I thought painting the bases didn't count as having 'based' the model? At least this is what I was told when I tried to enter a tourney with my green-based Tau a few years back.

Painting the base green wouldn't count for most tournaments, you've just painted them another solid color that isn't the original black, and it doesn't look like a 'base' (a setting/ground the model is standing on).

However, I think what he meant was actually painting it to look like something, which is a good solution if you really hate basing with materials. I had a friend who painted his flat bases with a brick pattern that looked quite nice. He never got any complaints, at any events, because he had taken the effort to make the base below his model look like something (not a clean black, or green, or x colored surface).

Basing is actually quite fun (imo) once you get away from just hobby products like flock/static grass. Look up some articles, and you may find basing isn't so bad after all, and can include a variety of free alternatives that look nice and are fun to do (at least as fun as painting a model is).

since many people show up to tourni with crappy or unpainted figs, and no basing, i dont see how anyone could whine about your lack of basing. Not a big deal. If you want a quick fix, go to your local hardwear store. Have them mix up a small can of your base color. pour our what you need into a dixi cup and mix in enough sand that it becomes a thick paste. carefully apply to base. done.

doktor_g wrote:
I have not based them as I don't like how gentle you have to be with the flock with storage.

Scenery glue from a model railroad store is ~$5 for a bottle bigger than you will ever need and it makes flock as tough as nails. just get a brush full and let it soak into the flock until it cannot hold any more.

targetawg wrote:

Abstract Catalyst wrote:

ArbitorIan wrote:Or even just paint the bases as-is - they're textured on top, so they could just be painted and drybrushed.

I thought painting the bases didn't count as having 'based' the model? At least this is what I was told when I tried to enter a tourney with my green-based Tau a few years back.

Painting the base green wouldn't count for most tournaments, you've just painted them another solid color that isn't the original black, and it doesn't look like a 'base' (a setting/ground the model is standing on).

However, I think what he meant was actually painting it to look like something, which is a good solution if you really hate basing with materials. I had a friend who painted his flat bases with a brick pattern that looked quite nice. He never got any complaints, at any events, because he had taken the effort to make the base below his model look like something (not a clean black, or green, or x colored surface).

Basing is actually quite fun (imo) once you get away from just hobby products like flock/static grass. Look up some articles, and you may find basing isn't so bad after all, and can include a variety of free alternatives that look nice and are fun to do (at least as fun as painting a model is).

IIRC my Tau had their bases painted green/brown in a cheap attempt to appear like a swampy area.

Nowadays I base my fledging Dark Eldar onto plasticard cut into small tiles, so it's not a self-defense argument I'm putting forward. I just think it's silly to exclude people who put a lot of effort into the actual character model from playing because they haven't stuck some naff looking fake grass to the base.

doktor_g wrote:Hey folks,

Welcome!

doktor_g wrote:I have an 100% GW ork army. It's my first (and only) since returning to the game last year. It's painted to a slightly higher than avg table top standard IMHO. However, I have not based them as I don't like how gentle you have to be with the flock with storage.

I honestly am not sure what you're talking about here. I guess if you're using big chunky flock (like the stuff on some kinds of model trees) that could be a worry, but most kinds of basing are at least as durable as the paint on the model.

doktor_g wrote: I have read that several tourneys require basing. If the minis are painted to a high standard would basing still be required? Also I have conversions of WFB boar riders to "plays as" biker boyz. See my gallery for some cell phone pics. It's a theme army based on my Alma mater. The Orkansas Razurbax. Ok thanks for any replies.

Usually basing is required; to most people's view it is part of finishing the model, and subjectively, it makes a massive difference in how attractive the army is to look at on the tabletop, during the game. It's honestly almost shocking the difference it makes for so little effort on a basic basing scheme.

My usual process is usually just...

1. Painting watered-down Elmer's glue (99 cents or less for a big bottle which will last you years) on top of the base using cheap children's brushes for watercolors (again, ~99 cents for them),
2. Then dipping it in a tub of sand (available for free depending on where you live, or dirt cheap at Home Depot or someplace), and wiping any on the edges of the base off with my thumb.
3. Let dry then paint with some wash or ink or watered-down paint to darken it and get in the cracks and recesses.
4. Let dry then drybrush with a lighter contrasting color using a beat-up old brush.
5. (optional) Paint a little more watered-down Elmer's in one or two spots on the base and (holding the model over the tub) throw a little static grass on top of the glue. Turn the model upside-down over the tup and tap the bottom of his base to make the grass stand up a bit and shake off any excess back into the tub.
6. Paint the rim of the base in a neat, clean coat of paint.

Done. You can base a whole army in an evening this way, and it makes the whole thing look 100% better and more complete.

Obviously some folks have a differing personal taste, but if so, at least clean up your bases and make them neat. Adding some kind of detail work (flat painted paving stones, a flecked marble surface, pavement markings, etc.) are also alternative possibilities which can look nice without requiring texture.

Or do snow effects.

White sand, pva glue mixed to a thick paste, paint it onto the base thickly, whip the top a little with an old brush you don't mind chucking, to get a more snowish look.

It's really easy, very cheap, and looks good. My Necrons are all snow based. It took me about 3 hours to snowbase my entire army (4000 pts or so, including 120 warriors.)

Don't forget to put a sheet of carboard down first, as the glue/sand mix can be a little messy.

augustus5 wrote:Another thread where some gamers try to force their expectations of what the hobby is on others. Fantastic.

The OP was asking how things are, not how they should be. The trick is to read posts THEN make a reply based on what was read in them.

augustus5 wrote:Another thread where some gamers try to force their expectations of what the hobby is on others. Fantastic.

Yes, in a thread about tourney requirements in a forum about tourney play. If you don't like the standard, then don't participate. If you want to participate, then meet the standard.

So yes, if you want to participate, expect to have other people's expectation of the 'hobby' forced upon you because they actually do this at 99% of tourneys.

Abstract Catalyst wrote:

targetawg wrote:

Abstract Catalyst wrote:

ArbitorIan wrote:Or even just paint the bases as-is - they're textured on top, so they could just be painted and drybrushed.

I thought painting the bases didn't count as having 'based' the model? At least this is what I was told when I tried to enter a tourney with my green-based Tau a few years back.

Painting the base green wouldn't count for most tournaments, you've just painted them another solid color that isn't the original black, and it doesn't look like a 'base' (a setting/ground the model is standing on).

However, I think what he meant was actually painting it to look like something, which is a good solution if you really hate basing with materials. I had a friend who painted his flat bases with a brick pattern that looked quite nice. He never got any complaints, at any events, because he had taken the effort to make the base below his model look like something (not a clean black, or green, or x colored surface).

Basing is actually quite fun (imo) once you get away from just hobby products like flock/static grass. Look up some articles, and you may find basing isn't so bad after all, and can include a variety of free alternatives that look nice and are fun to do (at least as fun as painting a model is).

IIRC my Tau had their bases painted green/brown in a cheap attempt to appear like a swampy area.

Nowadays I base my fledging Dark Eldar onto plasticard cut into small tiles, so it's not a self-defense argument I'm putting forward. I just think it's silly to exclude people who put a lot of effort into the actual character model from playing because they haven't stuck some naff looking fake grass to the base.

I think it's a bit of a stretch saying people are being excluded for not using grass. It's a tournament, and I'm assuming a larger one (a shop tourney wouldn't care, usually they don't even require painting). If the tournament packet states (for instance): all models must be painted and based. It's just a rule, and many would argue it's equally as important as painting a model. If you show up then get angry that they won't let you play/don't approve of your models when you distinctly ignored an explicit statement (this is a hypothetical situation where the tournament did actually state basing is required) to do so, you've got nothing to complain about.

As others have said, basing can be easy, cheap, and durable. The OP had a few photos of his models, and some had some nice rocks on the bases, just do that for all of them! If not, try the method mannahan suggested, which is what I've done before as well, though I'm now making my own resin bases (which you can also buy).

Some options from the top of my head for those who are at a loss on alternative ways to base beyond static grass:

1) Paint with glue (elmers, never buy the GW pva for 8-10 dollars a bottle, it's the same stuff), dip in sand/pebble mix. Allow to dry, paint a base layer of a dark color (I used scorched brown). After drying, drybrush up 2-3 shades of lighter colors. My progression was bestial brown, bubonic brown (which is yellowish), then bleached bone.
2) Resin bases (tons of suppliers of tons of styles, or make your own!)
3) Textured plasticard. Plenty of stores (online and railroad hobby stores) sell textured plasticard with different patterns, cobblestone, brickwork, diamond plate, etc etc. Just cut it out and glue it down and paint. Makes for very nice and easy bases.
4) Materials from outdoors, you can find sand/pebbles along the roadside, bits of bark, etc to put models on. Sand isn't restricted to beaches remember, it's used in most areas along roadways (esp. in the winter) and ends up along the roadside.

nkelsch wrote:

So yes, if you want to participate, expect to have other people's expectation of the 'hobby' forced upon you because they actually do this at 99% of tourneys.

Are you sure that 99% of tournaments have a standard for basing? Is that exceedingly valid statistic being pulled from where the sun doesn't shine?

augustus5 wrote:

nkelsch wrote:

So yes, if you want to participate, expect to have other people's expectation of the 'hobby' forced upon you because they actually do this at 99% of tourneys.

Are you sure that 99% of tournaments have a standard for basing? Is that exceedingly valid statistic being pulled from where the sun doesn't shine?

I'm guessing it is, as most statistics are. However, he is correct if you're defining tournament as GT's or just as "any event that requires fully painted". The two are a package deal.

Call your tourny or shop your planning on playing at and ask them. If they require it, just take your white paint, and put a couple road lines on each base, you know, the white lines? Presto, they are now standing on roads. Problem solved

I know some places they want you to have painted and based models. I heard that the la bunker was going back to that.

targetawg wrote:

augustus5 wrote:

nkelsch wrote:

So yes, if you want to participate, expect to have other people's expectation of the 'hobby' forced upon you because they actually do this at 99% of tourneys.

Are you sure that 99% of tournaments have a standard for basing? Is that exceedingly valid statistic being pulled from where the sun doesn't shine?

I'm guessing it is, as most statistics are. However, he is correct if you're defining tournament as GT's or just as "any event that requires fully painted". The two are a package deal.

Ever since GW's RTTs and GTs from around 2000 on, the *ONLY* tourneys (including independents) that have allowed non-painted models were 'ard boyz. Now when people show up and bitch and moan and throw a fit and force a smaller tourney to allow unpainted models by bullying the store owner to over-ride the TO and then the person doesn't follow the rules of the tourney, that is not the same as not having the 3-colors and based rule. That is just an entitled person having fun at other people's expense.

Even all of the tourneys posted on Dakka in this very forum are overwhelmingly requiring painting (3 colors and based). If you are a store owner, you would be crazy not to because painting drives sales and prevents theft as you can easily distinguish what was brought with someone and what got popped open from a blister and assembled in the corner. In the chaos of a tourney, you can't keep on top of everything.

If you want to participate in other people's events... then you have to meet their expectation of what the 'hobby' requires to play, Which for most tourneys is 3-colors and based. This thread shows basing is exceedingly simple, inexpensive and can be done in many ways to minimize impact to a model.

Abstract Catalyst wrote:
How about no. I fail to see why basing models is a necessity.

Basing back in the day wasnt done, or was optional. I remember back then we never did.

Depends on the game and the group. But the idea that basing your models is part of them being fully painted, in wargames, goes back to before GW even existed.

The historical wargamers are still even stricter than we are, as a rule. Many of them abide by the restriction of never fielding a model (even in a friendly game) which isn't completely painted and based.

Also keep in mind that alot of the rules require base to base contact. Or with template weapons covering the base.

No base, more guys in close combat, more dificulty with template weapons.

Mannahnin wrote: Many of them abide by the restriction of never fielding a model (even in a friendly game) which isn't completely painted and based.

GW had this rule in their stores and bunkers up until around 2004. Most FLGS in my area required painting for in-game play up until the ends of the GW GT era.

Non-painting is a recent development, but hasn't totally overwritten the tourney environment yet.

I wouldn't say "non-painting is a recent development". As carmachu pointed out, many local stores, withou as strong a culture of painting, have allowed unpainted WH & 40k stuff for a long time. Big events permitting it is pretty rare/a newer thing, though.

Mannahnin wrote:I wouldn't say "non-painting is a recent development". As carmachu pointed out, many local stores, withou as strong a culture of painting, have allowed unpainted WH & 40k stuff for a long time. Big events permitting it is pretty rare/a newer thing, though.

Me either. It's very much an area to area thing, both then and now.

nkelsch wrote:You don't need sand or flock... use plasticard and make ship decking...

or put yellow lines and make it a black asphalt.

Or go buy those clear bases.

The same people that claim 'I don't want to base' are the ones that say 'I don't want to paint' and 'I don't want to assemble arms so I can proxy' and 'I don't want to WYSIWYG.'

Tourneys require 3colors and based. It is not an unreasonable expectation and there are so many good ways to base all of the excuses are terrible. If you want to participate in the event, you follow their rules.

I can go get gravel out of the gutter in the street, glue it to a base and paint it and it will look great.

I am a person that doesn't want to base, however my entire army is painted, well. It is also wysiwyg, and I never proxy infact the reason I dont base is that I personally think they look tacky, green grass basses on a asphalt surface looks terrible to me, straight black looks fine anywere, should I be barred from playing? (this is an honest question to anyone that wants to answer)

Though like I said before I have never been barred, I just explain my position on basing and the TO always understands and I understand that I am the odd one out so I take a small painting score hit, no biggie I guess.

It's totally subjective, to be honest. I think you're just in the unlucky position of having a personal preference which runs contrary to most people's, and which can be confused with laziness or unwillingness to "finish", even though to the terms of your preference they are finished.

I think black bases usually look awful, to be honest. Much worse a conflict than having bases which don't match the terrain of the table. But some of that is no doubt just the expectations I have developed over years within a certain culture regarding painting.

If you want 'neutral' bases for your models to look good on any tabletop then look into something like this:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/304961.page

Clear bases shows effort. Black bases show laziness if you intend it to or not. You could have a golden demon painted model on a black base and the first thing someone would say is "is he done? what is with the base?"

If you don't like it, don't attend events with painting requirements. I would recommend finding a basing design that makes the models look finished that you like. Ship decking can be very minimalistic and look very good with a dark metallic color and a black edge. It will be based and neutral and then you will be welcome at 100% of events.

Mmm, those clear basses actually look quite nice, it would show the texture of the actual battle field which is something I like. Thanks for the idea, it is something I will be looking into.

And while I dont like it persay, I still attend events knowing I will be taking a penalty on painting score it is something I know I have to live with being the odd one out. I brought up the question as the argument between basing and not basing was getting heated over only 2 points, I felt my opinion would bring into light another angle from which the current argument had not addressed.

With that being said I dont always hate basing, those guys that build a diorama for there army with holes cut for their armies bases and the base seamlessly matches the rest of the diorama always get 2 thumbs up from me.

Those guys are always impressive. I don't go that far, but I do make my army display boards match my bases.

Those clear bases are pretty darn cool, and seem like a good option for folks like you. Also seems like they're pretty cheap from Litko. The downside of them sliding off terrain easier than gw bases could be a bit of an issue, but I'd think you'd be okay on most terrain; maybe do a little bit of sanding on the bottom if you could manage it without killing the clear effect.

Why would an unpainted clear base be any more acceptable than a normal unpainted black base? If the idea is to make the figure look finished but people won't/don't accept the "on an aspalt road" excuse then why should clear bases get a pass?

Good question. I would guess because they make it obvious that you've made an effort to do something than just sticking them onto the bases in the pack without consideration for appearance. Of course, the clear ones might well be ruled unacceptable by some folks' lights.

targetawg wrote:

Abstract Catalyst wrote:

ArbitorIan wrote:Or even just paint the bases as-is - they're textured on top, so they could just be painted and drybrushed.

I thought painting the bases didn't count as having 'based' the model? At least this is what I was told when I tried to enter a tourney with my green-based Tau a few years back.

However, I think what he meant was actually painting it to look like something, which is a good solution if you really hate basing with materials.

Yes, that's what I meant. Bases have a textured top, so you should be able to paint it, say, green, then drybrush a paler colour onto it. Suddenly the base is not a single solid colour - it's painted and textured grass, dirt or whatever.


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yournamehere wrote:Mmm, those clear basses actually look quite nice, it would show the texture of the actual battle field which is something I like. Thanks for the idea, it is something I will be looking into.

If anyone is looking for these, I have a whole army based on clear bases (my Tau army - link in the sig).

Litko Aerosystems do them to order (as well as a stunning range of Space Corridors) but can be quite expensive. The best option I found was Fenris Games (www.fenrisgames.co.uk), who cut me an entire army's worth for less than £30.

Mannahnin wrote:Depends on the game and the group. But the idea that basing your models is part of them being fully painted, in wargames, goes back to before GW even existed.

Yes. But we're not talking about wargames in general. In the GW hobby, basing hasnt always been a requirement. In fact I have models that are OOP that are painted, but not based. Because that was how was back then. Including many GW magazine pictures. In fact they didnt do more then paint the base green.

carmachu wrote:
Yes. But we're not talking about wargames in general. In the GW hobby, basing hasnt always been a requirement. In fact I have models that are OOP that are painted, but not based. Because that was how was back then. Including many GW magazine pictures. In fact they didnt do more then paint the base green.

That's not going to do you much good if you want to participate in an event that requires '3colors and based' especially since GW came up with that requirement years ago. "GW once 20 years ago had pictures of unbased models in their magazine!!!" isn't going to get you anywhere.

If you don't want to base, then don't base... and also don't participate in events that require it.

Could you compromise?

Put a thin count of fine sand on the base, paint it and the rim jet black. Dry brush the sand charcoal.

It looks black, but it is 1)flocked, and 2) highlighted.

Personally, I refuse to play with someone who has bases that don't match the terrain we're playing on.

Snow bases on my desert board? UNACCEPTABLE!

yournamehere wrote:Tournaments not allowing or nocking points for unbased models is one of my pet peeves, mainly because I prefer unflocked straight black basses.

As do I...

Hopefully the TO will be less unreasonable than most TOs tend to be.

Polonius wrote:Could you compromise?

Put a thin count of fine sand on the base, paint it and the rim jet black. Dry brush the sand charcoal.

It looks black, but it is 1)flocked, and 2) highlighted.

Probably the best option. Very easy to do. Sand doesn't come off once it's glued and painted. A light grey drybrush and your done. Your models have essentially the same look, but now meet requirements for tournaments.

To answer the orginal question: In the GT's I run, we require basing. It shouldn't ever come to the point of having to DQ someone.

If a player called up and asked, we'd tell them to choose whether to base their models, or not attend. If they registered for a GT and showed up without basing, it would definitely cause a problem. Either you read the rules or didn't. Showing up to a GT and knowingly causing the TO a headache before game one is a bad thing. So is not bothering to read the rules, and being ignorant of the requirements. Either way you're in the wrong.

TO's hate to have to DQ a player. Makes us the bad guys. TO's also hate to have people break rules and ignore requirements and then let them slide. People complain about favoritism and 'why have rules if you don't enforce them?'. Lose/lose for the TO.

Mikhaila- I'll ask you the same type of question that I asked above. Would you find "clear" bases with nothing else done to them acceptable at a tournement that required models be based?

Polonius wrote:Could you compromise?

Put a thin count of fine sand on the base, paint it and the rim jet black. Dry brush the sand charcoal.

It looks black, but it is 1)flocked, and 2) highlighted.

Also, putting a thin plasticard with a metal pattern on the base, painting it boltgun metal then heavily washing in baldab black. Then using a black rim. It is almost a completely black base, but is based.

At some point, if you want to participate in the events, you have to follow the rules.

And I find a clear base or some of those bases with patterns 'based' because it shows effort and is more than just the simple base the model comes with. Some of the ones with the etched patterns are pretty sweet. But I would say check with your TO.

My pet peeve is when people show up to tourneys with bare-metal models and expect to play when the requirements are clearly 3 colors and based. Even major events here on Dakka have photogalleries that are ruined by that one person who showed up with 1 color terminators with no base or a bare-metal daemonprince. If people can't follow the rules, it isn't fair to everyone else who did follow the rules. If I knew I could get away with 10% of my army being unpainted, I might have changed what I brought... but the rules were all painted. It is a selfish attitude to show up to an event knowingly breaking the rules and demanding an exception.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:Mikhaila- I'll ask you the same type of question that I asked above. Would you find "clear" bases with nothing else done to them acceptable at a tournement that required models be based?

Would greatly depend on the basing. The ones in the gallery someone linked looked good. I can envision other 'clear bases' that would look like dogpoop. In making an exception to the "figures must be based" rule, the quality of the final product has to be taken into account in whether or not you all the exception. It would have to be on a case by case basis.

If someone went to the trouble to do the ultraclear bases shown in the gallery, and they were the correct size, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I don't mean to sound offensive but, could you explain your reasoning to me because I don't get that attitude. In effect you're saying that as long as you throw money at it then it's OK. If you spend money to buy a different base then you are excluded from having to follow the rules. I don't see how it's any more effort to glue a figure onto one base then it is to glue it to another. How about if I bought these bases from armourcast but didn't paint them http://armorcast.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=124_59&products_id=858 (or something like them)? Would that be acceptable? Either a figure is based by adding something to it (besides a coat of paint) or it isn't. If the rules say that I have to base my model to enter then shouldn't everyone else have to do the same?

If someone went to the trouble to do the ultraclear bases shown in the gallery, and they were the correct size, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I don't understand this line of thought. I have seen two posters say something along this line in this thread so far. How is it that somebody who glues a model to a clear base has gone to any more trouble than somebody who has glued a model to a standard black base?

Edit: Ninja'd by Leo_the_Rat. Well played sir...

I think it's a matter of perception: a plain black base looks forgotten. A clear base looks like effort was put in.

One of the interesting things is that a plain black base, properly done, isn't less work. You still need to paint it, and cover up splashes from the boots.

The only extra effort put into basing on a clear base is the effort to order and pay for the bases.

I personally think that tournaments should be free to create whatever restrictions they choose, including a standard for basing/painting. If I don't like any certain restriction, I'm free to not play in said tournament.

I would not be offended to play against somebody with an unpainted/unbased army though, and care little for how much/little effort somebody other than myself puts into his or her hobby.

biccat wrote:Personally, I refuse to play with someone who has bases that don't match the terrain we're playing on.

Snow bases on my desert board? UNACCEPTABLE!

Trollface.jpg

"Rule of cool" is a fickle mistress. If you want to 'risk' making something that doesn't follow the rules, it better be cool. If you can't risk it, then stay with the standard config, which is gluing sand to your base.

People will see clear bases as cool. People will see Black bases as lazy and unwilling to follow the rules.

So cool=don't have to follow the rules, and black base=lazy, even if somebody prefers the look of the black base.

I see...

I don't really care one way or the other about basing in tournaments, but the reason clear bases are different from plain black bases is pretty clear: one is aesthetically coherent with the painted model, the other is bare, flat black plastic. The only time the flat black really works is if you're intentionally painting an unrealistic scheme, like a cell-shading effect. If you paint a model to look like real life, but miniaturized, then flat black plastic totally ruins the look.

On that note, OP, I looked at your gallery and your models would really look much better if they were based.

augustus5 wrote:So cool=don't have to follow the rules, and black base=lazy, even if somebody prefers the look of the black base.

I see...

Not at all.
Rule of Cool = 'I've done something different, and maybe I will be given an exception to the rules based on the result'. This is specifically done by many TO's to give leeway to models that look good on the board, show skill or effort of some sort, and allows players to use models that while breaking a restriction, will enhance the gaming experience of people at the event.


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Leo_the_Rat wrote:I don't mean to sound offensive but, could you explain your reasoning to me because I don't get that attitude. In effect you're saying that as long as you throw money at it then it's OK. If you spend money to buy a different base then you are excluded from having to follow the rules. I don't see how it's any more effort to glue a figure onto one base then it is to glue it to another. How about if I bought these bases from armourcast but didn't paint them http://armorcast.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=124_59&products_id=858 (or something like them)? Would that be acceptable? Either a figure is based by adding something to it (besides a coat of paint) or it isn't. If the rules say that I have to base my model to enter then shouldn't everyone else have to do the same?

Why? You asked a question, I answered it, and you went on the attack because you don't like the answer.)

Lets leave it that you don't like the reasoning. I'm wasn't trying to convince you.

I have a set of meganobz which was custom which I built for a 500pt tourney. The theme was Zero atmosphere orks. It involved some MANZ, some 'ard boyz in power armor and some dreds. They were supposed to look like orks in space marine armor.
TERMIMANZ
They are non-standard models and may be confusing for WYSIWYG and may be oversized which could cause issues. I have made the sarcophagus removable so you can see the cyborky gutz inside. It looks much more like Mega armor without the dred exterior. I even used Mega armor legs and base size.

If I choose to use them at an event, I usually ask before hand for a To's permission to use them. Most times they are allowed. Sometimes they are not. I have had their landraider BW disallowed twice for being larger than the stock BW. The models themselves, except for a slightly larger profile than Ghaz for the megaboss, the models work fine.

But if a TO disallowed, then I would use my metal MANZ and Ghaz instead.

Base size, basing, Model size, are all discretionary things that you can slightly deviate from the norm, but you live and die by 'rule of cool'.

NOVA has some very strict guidelines in regards to custom vehicles... because of them, I have decided to avoid bringing my non-standard BWs. I do not want to show up and make a fit about the dozens of events I have used them at and how 10 years ago we had no official BW and how they had to hold 20 models. I respect the TO's expectation to have stock models, I respect players who expect stock models and I respect my own choice not to own any stock BWs at the moment and have all Land-raider based BWs from my 3rd edition days.

So now I am taking a biker boss instead to that event I am not going to show up and complain all day about gamers rights.

I didn't mean to sound like I was attacking you or your opinion. I was hoping for something a little more in depth than "I think that this is cool so it's OK. This thing isn't cool to me so it's not OK." Even though the same effort was put into both things. In other words I was looking for an objective standard and I thought you might have had one. Just like the 3 color rule has been expanded to make it more objective (no 3 dots on a base = pass).
Again I don't mean to attack you or anyone else in this matter but the "rule of cool" just leaves me cold when it comes to entry requirements. It's fine when you want to give bonus points for it but it's just too subjective, to me, to make it an entry rule.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:I didn't mean to sound like I was attacking you or your opinion. I was hoping for something a little more in depth than "I think that this is cool so it's OK. This thing isn't cool to me so it's not OK." Even though the same effort was put into both things. In other words I was looking for an objective standard and I thought you might have had one. Just like the 3 color rule has been expanded to make it more objective (no 3 dots on a base = pass).
Again I don't mean to attack you or anyone else in this matter but the "rule of cool" just leaves me cold when it comes to entry requirements. It's fine when you want to give bonus points for it but it's just too subjective, to me, to make it an entry rule.

Well, I don't know about others, but I'd consider a black base fine if 1) the base was neatly painted black, with no stray paint marks, and 2) it helped tie the miniature together, meaning there can't be black boots and a black base.

A clear base indicates the desire to have, well, clear bases. What do black bases represent? It does take effort to find and use clear bases, esp. since basic black bases come with the models.

Here's a question for people that are opposed to black bases: what if they were gloss varnished when the model wasn't? Giving it a more mirror look?

Abstract Catalyst wrote:I fail to see why people should have to do anything to such an unimportant part of the model.

Oh and sand isn't free, to get anywhere near any 'free' sand I'd have to pay £20 in petrol. Plus, taking sand is stealing, and most sand would look awful on a model base.

I just pick up a bucket of sand from the local park and sift it through a strainer. It's been working for me for the last 20 years.

I guess we should define what is "based."

I know a guy who uses black bases on all of his models because he prefers the look. All of his bases are painted black, and the circular edge is highlighted.

Is that "based?"

Who decides, overall, what qualifies as "based." Note, I said "overall," so "The TO" (or similar) is not a valid answer to my question.

Eric

Ifurita wrote:

Abstract Catalyst wrote:I fail to see why people should have to do anything to such an unimportant part of the model.

Oh and sand isn't free, to get anywhere near any 'free' sand I'd have to pay £20 in petrol. Plus, taking sand is stealing, and most sand would look awful on a model base.

I just pick up a bucket of sand from the local park and sift it through a strainer. It's been working for me for the last 20 years.

Ah, that might be a local law thing - in the UK, it's technically illegal to remove sand from many of our beaches, and sand in parks is more often than not the property of the County Council or a private owner. Silly, I know, but 'tis the law, nevertheless, and last I heard Dakka wasn't big on endorsing illegal activity.

On the subject of basing, it's my major weakness in the hobby - hate it with a passion, and it always feels like my lack of ability to 'choreograph' a base ruins the model. But if it's necessary to play in the tourneys you want to go to, you have to jump through the hoops, I guess.

I use micro arts bases for mine so no flocking, just painting. Now if you don't want to do bases at all there was a person on here that was using clear bases for his minis. For the life of me I can't remember the person but someone on here will know.

He uses the clear bases so the table shows through. Instant bases that blend with what ever table you are playing on.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:I didn't mean to sound like I was attacking you or your opinion. I was hoping for something a little more in depth than "I think that this is cool so it's OK. This thing isn't cool to me so it's not OK." Even though the same effort was put into both things. In other words I was looking for an objective standard and I thought you might have had one. Just like the 3 color rule has been expanded to make it more objective (no 3 dots on a base = pass).
Again I don't mean to attack you or anyone else in this matter but the "rule of cool" just leaves me cold when it comes to entry requirements. It's fine when you want to give bonus points for it but it's just too subjective, to me, to make it an entry rule.

It's not an entry rule, that's the point. I'ts a saying, a generalization, an exception. An objective standard would be "NO". You're not getting a lot more depth, because 1)I don't have models sitting in front of me, 2) It's hypothetical, and not really affecting anyone, and 3) You actually have a lot more depth to the discussion, from other posts.

I never said, "I think that this is cool so it's OK. This thing isn't cool to me so it's not OK." That's you making something up, then standing it up to attack the arguement.

I can't imagine, let alone write rules for, everything that a gamer might bring to the table. The restrictions say 'NO, not allowed', and in some cases, there may be exceptions to 'NO', but I can't give you objective standards on hypothetical situations that I can't imagine.

As to: Just like the 3 color rule has been expanded to make it more objective (no 3 dots on a base = pass). , me and many other TO's have never let that pass, but we can't force other TO's to not let it slide.

The old rule was "Painted using at least 3 colors". It mean't you actually had to PAINT your model. Not just put 3 colors somewhere on the model. If it didn't pass the first test: Is the model painted? then passing the test of "are there 3 colors?" is sort of meaningless.

Back to the hypothetical example you want objective standards for: Although we'd let it slide as 'based', he's going to lose points in the painting catagory since it can't meet the requirements for anything beyond minimum basing.

A clear base indicates the desire to have, well, clear bases. What do black bases represent? It does take effort to find and use clear bases, esp. since basic black bases come with the models.

What do clear bases represent? Why is effort part of the equation, and how hard is it to google 25mm clear plastic bases and enter your credit card information?

I can really see no difference between clear plastic bases or solid black bases, yet someone who prefers a solid black base is considered lazy, while someone who prefers a clear plastic base is cool.

augustus5 wrote:

A clear base indicates the desire to have, well, clear bases. What do black bases represent? It does take effort to find and use clear bases, esp. since basic black bases come with the models.

What do clear bases represent? Why is effort part of the equation, and how hard is it to google 25mm clear plastic bases and enter your credit card information?

I can really see no difference between clear plastic bases or solid black bases, yet someone who prefers a solid black base is considered lazy, while someone who prefers a clear plastic base is cool.

It's a subtle distinction, and I for one disagree with it (to an extent). But it's not as difficult as you imagine.

Clear bases represent whatever is below them. They're picked less for their own inherent aesthetic and more to blend seemlessly into whatever terrain is on the board.

I know you're just playing devil's advocate, but it is a greater effort to order bases (often in multiple sizes) and then attach them, comparted to simply using the parts in the kit.

Don't put words in people's mouths. solid black bases are considered unbased by some. Clear bases are pretty clearly a base (that can't be painted or flocked). Laziness has less to do with it.

The basing rule stems from establishing minimums, meaning three colors and a non-bare plastic base. It really didn't consider a fully painted mini on a flat black base, which is part of the problem. Do you allow an exemption for "well painted" armies, but not bare minimum? What's the objective standard there?

Where I disagree with Mikhalia is that I don't see neatly painted (not bare plastic) bases as "un-based." I think that if you want flat black, you should be allowed it, it just needs to be both neat and consistent.

augustus5 wrote:and how hard is it to google 25mm clear plastic bases and enter your credit card information?

Dunno, a couple of minutes and I didn't find anything. I'd actually be interested in stocking them if someone finds a supplier, let me know.

I haven't really read this thread much, but they are clear ACRYLIC bases, and you'll find them aplenty if you search using that term.

FYI they scratch easily, like aquarium acrylic, and look like ass once they scratch.

I assume people have already suggested the huge variety of scenic bases from great companies like back2base-ix, micro art studios, dragonforge, warcast studios, etc? Most are pretty cheap, and way more durable than flock natch ...

Abstract Catalyst wrote:I really hate basing rules.

'Hey guys, now that you've spent £20 on a box of 5 troops, how about you pay us some more money for flock just so you can pay?'

How about no. I fail to see why basing models is a necessity. I do base mine, but only using plasticard cut into small tile sections to give the appearance of urban tiling - but if somebody wants to play me I don't even particularly mind if their units are even painted, let alone based. For me, the painting & conversion side of the hobby is as fun as the battles, but I don't see why people should be forced to go through these procedures in order to play the game.

Basing your models makes them stop looking like crap. Even a basic level base with 2 drybrushes of grey over black sand with a tiny bit of flock makes a model infinitely better looking. Oh, and it costs zero unless you want flock in which case it costs about $8 for your entire army.

MVBrandt wrote:

FYI they scratch easily, like aquarium acrylic, and look like ass once they scratch.

Actually I was thinking about that... This is the main reason I 'base' my flying stands because the clear stuff wears badly.

Almost seems like you would need an IPAD screen cover for the bottom of the clear bases to protect them.

Aye ... all I can ever think of is aquaria. I worked with marine life, and eventually very large scale aquaria (10k gal +) for the entirety of my first career ... and I'll never get over how awful it is when acrylic scratches.

Same with Mylar. Having a 1000.00 comic in new mylar looks fantastic with the ultraclear, slightly shiny surface. After a while in a comic box, especially a dealers box at shows, they pick up an accumulation of minor scratches, dulling the surface and ruining the presentation. The mylar is still good for 30 years for preserving the comic, but dealers swap them out for new, shiny mylar, to help sell the high end books. Most of my personal collection is in scuffed mylar, as I don't want to chuck it, still good for it's main purpose.

ph34r wrote:

Abstract Catalyst wrote:I really hate basing rules.

'Hey guys, now that you've spent £20 on a box of 5 troops, how about you pay us some more money for flock just so you can pay?'

How about no. I fail to see why basing models is a necessity. I do base mine, but only using plasticard cut into small tile sections to give the appearance of urban tiling - but if somebody wants to play me I don't even particularly mind if their units are even painted, let alone based. For me, the painting & conversion side of the hobby is as fun as the battles, but I don't see why people should be forced to go through these procedures in order to play the game.

Basing your models makes them stop looking like crap. Even a basic level base with 2 drybrushes of grey over black sand with a tiny bit of flock makes a model infinitely better looking. Oh, and it costs zero unless you want flock in which case it costs about $8 for your entire army.

Basically you are illogical and wrong; stop whining.

My opinion is wrong? Wow, that makes brilliant sense. I personally quite like the look of painted black bases with highlighted grey edges, in fact I prefer them over the silly leafy Catachan ones or badly executed sand bases. 'Basing your models makes them stop looking like crap' is entirely an opinion, don't try and use it pragmatically.

Flock looks even worse, in my opinion. It just looks cheap and unclean. Holding that opinion isn't whining, and denying people entry into a competition when they've already paid the extortionate prices for GW models simply because they prefer simpler looking bases is ridiculous. Those clear bases are a perfect example of that - they require the same level of effort as painting and highlighting the black bases, but because you've thrown money at it you're allowed to use them in a tournament.

Abstract Catalyst wrote:Holding that opinion isn't whining, and denying people entry into a competition when they've already paid the extortionate prices for GW models simply because they prefer simpler looking bases is ridiculous. Those clear bases are a perfect example of that - they require the same level of effort as painting and highlighting the black bases, but because you've thrown money at it you're allowed to use them in a tournament.

Sorry, not really trying to keep the arguement going, but look at what you wrote.)

-Since someone spent money on GW models, they shouldn't be denied entry to a tournament.

-Throwing money on clear bases shouldn't count.

Which is it? Money counts or not?

You're logic has a flaw though. Each person's preferences don't modify the tournament requirements. You could claim you prefer unpainted models, and by the same arguement not have to paint.

mikhaila wrote:Sorry, not really trying to keep the arguement going, but look at what you wrote.)

-Since someone spent money on GW models, they shouldn't be denied entry to a tournament.

-Throwing money on clear bases shouldn't count.

Which is it? Money counts or not?

You're logic has a flaw though. Each person's preferences don't modify the tournament requirements. You could claim you prefer unpainted models, and by the same arguement not have to paint.

It's not a flaw, they're two different thing. You have to buy the models in order to play, obviously - but you don't have to buy clear bases. As such, the more money you spend over the initial limit the more likely you are to be able to enter a tournament. Now I don't mind that idea in things like painting contests and Golden Demon, as they obviously require more money, but to simply play I think it's a silly rule to have.

Not painting the model at all is different again, and - as nobody has claimed to prefer unpainted model - is just a strawman.

Abstract Catalyst wrote:
It's not a flaw, they're two different thing. You have to buy the models in order to play, obviously - but you don't have to buy clear bases. As such, the more money you spend over the initial limit the more likely you are to be able to enter a tournament.

Except that's not true. Or, at least, not true in the way you're phrasing it. You don't have to spend any more money to base models. Even leaving aside the tremendously low cost of flock or even that gravel is pretty availble nearly anywhere for free, you can use cut up sprue to make rusted metal bases.

Digging in heels on what's literally a few dollars in basing materials is pretty odd, given the other costs associated with tournament play (gas, lunch money, entry fees, etc.)

Now I don't mind that idea in things like painting contests and Golden Demon, as they obviously require more money, but to simply play I think it's a silly rule to have.

Well, most of us brandy drinking moneybags in the tournament circuit can easily afford kitty litter and dollar store oregano. I know that the lower classes can't come up with the cash, but that's how we keep things classy.

Not painting the model at all is different again, and - as nobody has claimed to prefer unpainted model - is just a strawman.

I've seen people claim to prefer unpainted or flat primed models to whatever paint job they are capable of. So it's not that great a strawman.

Polonius wrote:Digging in heels on what's literally a few dollars in basing materials is pretty odd, given the other costs associated with tournament play (gas, lunch money, entry fees, etc.)

I'm not digging my heels in, as I've previously stated I do base my models. I simply think that forcing people to do things to their models is silly. The game is meant to be all about creating and fielding and army you like, and you shouldn't be penalised for doing so. I hope you don't mind me not answering the rest of your post, it's just that I feel people are misunderstanding what I'm saying and so wanted to clarify the above point.

Abstract Catalyst wrote:

Polonius wrote:Digging in heels on what's literally a few dollars in basing materials is pretty odd, given the other costs associated with tournament play (gas, lunch money, entry fees, etc.)

I'm not digging my heels in, as I've previously stated I do base my models. I simply think that forcing people to do things to their models is silly. The game is meant to be all about creating and fielding and army you like, and you shouldn't be penalised for doing so. I hope you don't mind me not answering the rest of your post, it's just that I feel people are misunderstanding what I'm saying and so wanted to clarify the above point.

If you're point is simply that people should be able to do what they want with their models, that's a fine and universally accepted point.

I'm not sure what that has to do with the requirments to enter a private event are. I can dress however I want, but not if I want to get into certain clubs.

You also raised a lot of tangential points about money and the like which seemed to indicate that you had a problem with the tournament policy, and not making a general statement about people's freedom to do what they wish.

Abstract Catalyst wrote:

Polonius wrote:Digging in heels on what's literally a few dollars in basing materials is pretty odd, given the other costs associated with tournament play (gas, lunch money, entry fees, etc.)

I'm not digging my heels in, as I've previously stated I do base my models. I simply think that forcing people to do things to their models is silly. The game is meant to be all about creating and fielding and army you like, and you shouldn't be penalised for doing so. I hope you don't mind me not answering the rest of your post, it's just that I feel people are misunderstanding what I'm saying and so wanted to clarify the above point.

You may feel The game is meant to be all about creating and fielding and army you like, but when you participate in someone else's event, the event is about more than just 'the game' and often requires appearance-related requirements. When you play in some one's event, you play by their requirements. If you don't like the requirements, don't participate.

I am not going to hide in an alley with a fist full of sand and a bottle of glue and hop out and knock you down and begin basing your minis... You can do whatever you want or whatever you don't want... But don't expect to be universally accepted and don't expect for a rule not to be enforced because you think it is dumb. You may think basing is dumb, your opponent may think some other 'rule' is dumb and chooses not to follow it. If people get to decide which rules they don't like and don't have to follow the event dies. So if you don't like the rules, don't participate.

And the 'I like unpainted models' always translates into 'I am a metagame bandwagoner who wants maximum resale value on eBay for when I want to hop to the next codex.' Which is fine... just realize you are restricted from many large-scale competative events, and only really can take that list to FLGS and 'ard boyz. If you are happy, I am happy.

It's not a flaw, they're two different thing. You have to buy the models in order to play, obviously - but you don't have to buy clear bases. As such, the more money you spend over the initial limit the more likely you are to be able to enter a tournament. Now I don't mind that idea in things like painting contests and Golden Demon, as they obviously require more money, but to simply play I think it's a silly rule to have.

And the beautiful thing is, if you ever decide to expend the time, energy, and money to run your own event, then you can choose to not have such a silly rule.

And if a tournament you want to go to does have the silly rule, you can choose to just sit home, or abide by the restriction and go play.

This gives you total freedom in how you choose to interact with such a silly rule.

Holy cow folks. I didn't mean to hit a sore spot. So I'm guessing that opinion varies?

As the OP I just want to clarify a few things:
1. Cost is not an issue as I am buying overpriced toys imported from 5000 miles away. I can afford sand cork plasticard static grass and gold dust. Well, not gold dust.
2. I think that I've painted to a higher standard than just 3 colors and sprinkle on saw dust on elmers glue. I'm not a great painter or anything, but I am a hobbyist. You can be the judge from my gallery.
3. The army (including vehicles) are 100% "dipped" as are the bases. I did this for durability and transport mainly. I'm able to store the whole army in ziplocks and a plastic box. BUT the problem is elmers won't stick to polyurethane and sand WILL flake off. Then the little green skinned bugger will look bad and I'll get all OCD.

Then the wife will know that the toys are more important to me than I let on and she'll divorce me.

So, I will beg the TO to save my marriage and let me play....

DrG

Scenic Bases. If price isn't an issue, they are still pretty cheap, and they are uniformly awesome. Back 2 Base Ix, Dragonforge Design, Warcast Studios, Micro Art Studios ... etc.

Check 'em out ... the bases won't flake off, they look great, they're hobby-enhancing, etc.

doktor_g wrote:So, I will beg the TO to save my marriage and let me play....

Now, that's a valid arguement, and one I can feel sympathy for.)

doktor_g wrote:3. The army (including vehicles) are 100% "dipped" as are the bases. I did this for durability and transport mainly. I'm able to store the whole army in ziplocks and a plastic box. BUT the problem is elmers won't stick to polyurethane and sand WILL flake off. Then the little green skinned bugger will look bad and I'll get all OCD.

Hmm, water based glue on oil based dip. That might indeed cause something of a problem. Will depend a lot of the dip. Might have a solution though.

We did over 250 thousand sons for Games Day this year, and use Army Painter dip as one of the steps. I never really thought about the elmers not sticking, and used that, but the next steps probably fixed the proplem. We needed to get these done in assembly line, so I based them using flock from Gale Force 9. They sell it in small tubs the size of a hockey puck. I'll use it straight from the tub, or mix a couple together for the look I want.

1. Emers glue painted on with an old brush, dredge base in flock.
2. After it dries, lightly brush excess off with a brush.
3. Use testors gloss coat on the model, making sure you hit the base pretty heavy.
4. Dull coat with Testors Dullcote to whatever point you thing the models look good. Especially with a dip, this takes away a lot of the shine, and makes more colors pop out. I will go back and add shiny highlights if needed with a brush.

This will keep the flock from ever coming off. Super hairspray effect. I do a similar thing on scenery now. Heavy coat of Krylon Crystal Clear, followed by Dullcote to take off the shine.

Doktor_g, hit up Walmart. They tend to have a super glue that has a brush applicator. It's what I use for basing.

When did "based" come to mean something other than "on a base"?

DarknessEternal wrote:When did "based" come to mean something other than "on a base"?

'3 colors and based' is a short descriptive term to describe a more detailed standard which has been in place for decades within wargaming. So if you are referring to the 'based' part of '3 colors and based' they don't mean a model that is silver metal, grey plastic, green stuff and black base...

nkelsch wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:When did "based" come to mean something other than "on a base"?

'3 colors and based' is a short descriptive term to describe a more detailed standard which has been in place for decades within wargaming. So if you are referring to the 'based' part of '3 colors and based' they don't mean a model that is silver metal, grey plastic, green stuff and black base...

Yet you still give no definition of what it does mean.

DarknessEternal wrote:

nkelsch wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:When did "based" come to mean something other than "on a base"?

'3 colors and based' is a short descriptive term to describe a more detailed standard which has been in place for decades within wargaming. So if you are referring to the 'based' part of '3 colors and based' they don't mean a model that is silver metal, grey plastic, green stuff and black base...

Yet you still give no definition of what it does mean.

It means the base has been given some scenic detail. Typically sand, flock, or paint, but it can also be resin/plastic with built in details that are painted.

IE, not a black piece of plastic with no details or paint. And since I got into this hobby almost 15 years ago, thats exactly what "basing" a model has meant. Putting them on the black plastic bases has never been the definition of "basing", it's just something you're forced to do to make them stand up.

I would suggest "based" mean either fully painted with additional texture, or replaced with a scenic based.

I've been playing 40k since the year it came out (yes, I'm old), and I've never known anyone who thought of basing as putting some other foreign substance on a base, except perhaps paint.

DarknessEternal wrote:I've been playing 40k since the year it came out (yes, I'm old), and I've never known anyone who thought of basing as putting some other foreign substance on a base, except perhaps paint.

Then you may need to get out more.

Not to be rude, but that's what I've encountered for the decade I've been in the hobby, at least in the context of "painted and based."

Putting a base on a miniature is simply "assembly."

I'm sure there are pockets that consider "basing" simply painted a blank base, but they're the minority.

For example, by your definition, a "basing kit" would be clippers and glue, not slate and rubble:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat470007a&prodId=prod1140127

Polonius wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:I've been playing 40k since the year it came out (yes, I'm old), and I've never known anyone who thought of basing as putting some other foreign substance on a base, except perhaps paint.

Then Iyou may need to get out more.

Not to be rude, but that's what I've encountered for the decade I've been in the hobby, at least in the context of "painted and based."

Putting a base on a miniature is simply "assembly."

I'm sure there are pockets that consider "basing" simply painted a blank base, but they're the minority.

Agreed. '3 colors and based' has always been shorthand for:

1. You must fully assemble all miniatures in your army.
2. You must paint all miniatures in your army, using at least 3 colors. (including black and
white. We permit monochromatic color schemes.)
3.You must properly base all miniatures in your army, and said bases must be finished.
(with flock, static grass, any other sort of texturing etc.)

This is the standard for entry almost every event that has appearance requirements since the original days of GW GTs and GW RTTs has used. When someone says '3 colors and based' I have never seen it mean anything else.

DarknessEternal wrote:I've been playing 40k since the year it came out (yes, I'm old), and I've never known anyone who thought of basing as putting some other foreign substance on a base, except perhaps paint.

Been playing it just as long, and we always 'based' our models with sand or flock, even way back then. Probably because many people had played other games before 40k.

Ditto.

I've always based my models, and so did everyone I played with, since the birth of 40K.

It was required (along with painted models) at my local GW.

carmachu wrote:

Abstract Catalyst wrote:
How about no. I fail to see why basing models is a necessity.

Basing back in the day wasnt done, or was optional. I remember back then we never did.

truth. it really does add a lot to a model though. up until a few years ago i didn't base mine (predominantly out of laziness), but now i can't imagine not doing it.

Abstract Catalyst wrote:I fail to see why people should have to do anything to such an unimportant part of the model.

Oh and sand isn't free, to get anywhere near any 'free' sand I'd have to pay £20 in petrol. Plus, taking sand is stealing, and most sand would look awful on a model base.

Yes because you have to follow every single law.....I always grab sand from the beach (50 metres from my house) And have yet to be thrown in a cell or draged before a judge, Ill wager that your not the most fun person to party with.

"taking sand is stealing" = "I'm really looking for excuses to be intractable and not base my models."

How is picking up dirt off the ground stealing? I'm interested in hearing what section of your criminal code "Picking up handfuls of rocks and dirt" falls under, because, man, there are some pairs of boots I've worn that should probably do some time.

For my local beach (Presque Isle in Erie) it's literally a Federal Offense to remove any material- sand, dirt, branches, beach glass- technically, it might be a felony to hold your breath as you cross the boundary of the park.