I find Dreadfleet overprice (what a surprise!),especially for the size of the miniatures. Only 25x50mm Bases! What about you guys?

I'll consider it, if there's any left by time I start my job and get paid...yeah I just might, though...not a whole lot I can do with it since I don't have many people who are willing to play such a board game with me

No, I liked the idea of a naval game, but the execution doesn't really interest me.

No. Even if I were still buying things from GW.

I have zero interest in a naval game. BFG re-release? Maybe. Warhammer/Heroquest - very much so.

No, not for any price. The idea just does nothing for me.

Yawn.

If I wanted to play a game like this, I'd play Uncharted seas.
Or Distopian wars.

As it is, surface combat fleet actions don't do it for me.
I don't care if dragons and/or sea monsters are involved.

I kinda would like to try the mechanics, but again, the $115 investment is meh.

I'd buy it after a price drop, but I think even at this ridiculous price it'll sell out so... nope. Won't be buying it.

Naah... If it was an actual new game (not like Space Hulk) which would gain new models overtime, and also was in the same size as WHFB, I would probably be interested. WHFB skirmish game on sea, yes. WHFB battlefleet gothic... No thanks.

No. The models are much too weird for me.. and none of my friends would take me seriously if I asked them to play it with me LOL

The models look like someone decided that cramming as much detail as possible onto the available surface through the use of CAD was a brilliant idea, which it is not. The packaging is very "children's game". I think I will wait for the rules and reviews, and possibly get it when the price inevitably drops after the more easily exciteable people have bought theirs.

Yup, nipping down to order mine today.

Looks pretty cool, and I loved Man O War.

Not at that price.

There are better-looking naval games out there, at far better prices.

I would be interested in reading the rules though..

I would buy it if I had the money, but as I don't, I'll have to pass on it.

Nope
First of all I can't justify £70 on a game I would hardly get to play
Second have too much on the go hobby wise as it is
Third GW ist verboten
Fourth and the main reason, the game may be okay, but from what I can tell, it is single paced.
Can't see there being expansions so once you have been through the scenarios that will be it

Fifth am not keen on the collection of models.
I think they generally look good individually, but I find the "every race is represented with a ship" rather contrived and aesthetically it doesn't work for me.

The mat from what I have seen on the video looks neat and I really like the mechanical squid thing. But again, aesthetically it doesn't seem right next to a 17th century galleon.
That won't bother a lot of people of course.

I think GW should have licenced the game out so they can concentrate on their core games, which may have allowed for expansions. Am only surmising but rather think GW won't be following up in the future.


ps Wait for a price drop is quite funny
Being limited edition I can't see it happening, sadly.

Nope - far too expensive for a one-off game that most likely won't get played much.

IF ONLY I HAD DA $!

I already have. I ordered it this morning

I only have a GW near me to play at, as I can never convince my lazy friends to come over. I'm not gonna buy a game from GW I can't play at a GW. And even if they let you during the initial release they'll soon be stopping it.

I haven't decided yet. It looks fun, I remember playing Man-o-War a lifetime ago.

Only real concern is playability and such. If I can play a game in about an hour or less, and the rules are straightforward enough my kids can play it with me I will probably get it.

I can't like a single thing in this game...

The models are just too busy and unrealistic that they become bad models, the fact that its a self contained game doesn't help, I REALLY don't like the fact that the "fleets" are just sets of models from all the factions without any backing in the fluff. Its overpriced (as usual) and I've already bought into a naval game in the form of Dystopian Wars from which I own 2 of the beautiful Magentas and am waiting on the release of the rest of the French fleet.

Swing and miss as usual GW, swing and miss...

Nope, if I have the time and the money I will search eBay for Man 'o War.....

No expansions and a one off game? No thanks GDub, that's what for Fantasy Flight are for

I like naval games, but that one is just a big mess.

For £70 I think not. No value or worth here at all

Orlanth wrote:I like naval games, but that one is just a big mess.

Seconded, it's a self contained game at a very high price. If I want naval games, there are many others with a far healthier price tag and ongoing support and expansion.


Why on earth GW didn't just re-release and support BFG is beyond me.

Provided the models aren't pre-painted, I'd actually like to paint some of them. In terms of the actual game though, I'm just not much of a board game person and certainly not a $115 board game person.

I don't get enough time to build my Tyranids and play 40k, so Dread Fleet is a long way down the list.

RandomSauce19 wrote:I find Dreadfleet overprice (what a surprise!),especially for the size of the miniatures. Only 25x50mm Bases! What about you guys?

I think the models are a lot bigger than that.

From the GW web site:

Well the Heldenhammer is 100mm long and 110mm tall

If your gonna trash the game you should at least be accurate.

no. A one off, game like this doesn't interest me. It looks like it has a whopping 1 ship per force in there, and as such, has limited gameplay. The fact that it is a fire and forget release means that there will be no future releases or expansions to the game. Which means that it's pretty much dead on release.

850Sek for a couple of ships,"Moar Skullz!" terrain pieces, and a GAKTON of cards? Sorry GW, the "Pirate" theme set sail a loooong time ago.

Norsehawk wrote:no. A one off, game like this doesn't interest me. It looks like it has a whopping 1 ship per force in there, and as such, has limited gameplay. The fact that it is a fire and forget release means that there will be no future releases or expansions to the game. Which means that it's pretty much dead on release.

Man, I know what you mean. Lord forbid anyone ever release a Game In A Box! I got burned on Chess. Only six different pieces! Limited terrain! And NO EXPANSIONS!!!!!

If it was a proper "hobby" game with options for expansion, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. The box contents are good for the price, IMHO.

As a standalone board game it is less appealing. I would like to see the rules first, to see if it's challenging enough to compete with hardcore 2-player games such as Monsterpocalypse.

CptJake wrote:

Norsehawk wrote:no. A one off, game like this doesn't interest me. It looks like it has a whopping 1 ship per force in there, and as such, has limited gameplay. The fact that it is a fire and forget release means that there will be no future releases or expansions to the game. Which means that it's pretty much dead on release.

Man, I know what you mean. Lord forbid anyone ever release a Game In A Box! I got burned on Chess. Only six different pieces! Limited terrain! And NO EXPANSIONS!!!!!

Nice one!

I don't get trashing it simply because it is a stand alone game.

No way. A couple of models are okay, but it's just a boardgame by the looks of it. 10 ships, I assume each player gets one to control.

It's not a naval game like Man O' War or the heap of others that are currently on the market, and frankly those others will get continued support. At least GW are up front about the fact that this is a one-shot that will get nothing.

Price really doesn't seem that bad when you consider what comes in it. I am looking at $115 for something like 25 miniatures with some of them being very large and that is before you look at the board, the cards, and the rulebook. So from a cost perspective I think it is actually a pretty good value. My concern is the lack of support and expansions. I bought Space Hulk because I could use the minis for 40k. With this when I get tired of the game the minis are mostly worthless. So unfortunately I will probably not purchase this.

Who has trashed it for being a stand alone?
Norsehawk is perfectly entitled to his opinion.

Note the "It doesn't interest me" bit

I happen to agree from what I have seen.
Once the scenarios have been played through then what?
Play them all through again
and again
and again
Cue the Wagnerian horns it is starting to sound more like the Flying Dutchman.

You may disagree or be happy with that, but for me that ain't worth 70 smackers.
My chess and draughts set bought for £2 from the charity shop is a big difference.

It looks like a bad rehash of Man o' War, which I did play, but honestly that game kinda fell off after the "newness" faded. Plus it wasn't really a "model seller", once you had a fleet ... 4-6 ships.. you were done, and many of the ships were sold in 2 or 3 packs.

Like others have said, there are better games of this sort out there, at a better price.

I'll be getting 2

Interesting but no. NOt for a game that wont get much support, or dropped after a time. If I want a naval game I'd play Distopian wars.

I'm also getting one and hoping I get to play it before the anti-Dreadfleet mob puts me on the train to kampf Lala-land.

Yes I'll be buying it. Looks great, love to look of the models. Love board games as much as collectable games.

And no use waiting for a price drop, go check the prices of Space Hulk.

I preordered mine just after it appeared on the website. I like a good stand alone game and the mat could be good for other naval games as well.

It's the absence of proper fleets that puts me off. The coalition thing doesn't come off particularly with some of the evil races. We know the Vampires and Tomb Kings aren't really the best of pals.

I'm border line yes, but I think it's just because I suffer heavily from 'shiny-new-thing'itis. I'm interested but know nothing about the mechanics. Played BFG in the past but didn't get as much enjoyment from it, so if that's any indication I'd probably regret buying it. Add in to that the fact that I have NO mates that would game with me, even if they didn't have to buy anything and I think I'd be stupid for buying it.

But I'm still bloody tempted. Damn it I hate myself sometimes. Maybe GD will yield a better decision... hopefully I'll get to have a play and be swung then

i wouldnt mind panting it. but not for the price.

Didn't man o war already fail hard for GW? Interesting that they are at least trying to make somethig new.

Yeap, mine is ordered.

AustonT wrote:Didn't man o war already fail hard for GW? Interesting that they are at least trying to make somethig new.

It was 15-20 year ago, and the game mechanics seemingly totally different.

Howard you are not making me feel any younger.

So this is less like man o war and more like...umm BFG or what was that pirates game with the punch out cards and tiny dice.

No. The miniatures look very childish and the naval theme is better explored in other ranges.

AustonT wrote:Howard you are not making me feel any younger.

So this is less like man o war and more like...umm BFG or what was that pirates game with the punch out cards and tiny dice.

I don't know the rules mechanic for the new game... does anyone?

But there are only a few ships and lots of cards. It's definitely more of a board game than a tabletop wargame like BFG, Man O' War, or any of the naval games from Spartan or even the Warhammer Historical naval rules.

I think the Pirates game was just called Pirates! And I have a load of those I bought from the Works.

I didn't get Man O' War, I was younger then and had Space Hulk and later Necromunda and Gorkamorka. Man O' War, Epic, Dark Future sort of passed me by, but hey - you can't buy everything!

No orcs. No buy. Should have just redone the original Man O War. I would have jumped in then. Oh well, another fail as far as I am concerned.

I won't be getting it. If I want a pirate game I'll pick up Merchant's and Marauders. Both Ms&Ms and Dreadfleat are stand alone board games, and both come with quite a few models. Merchants (pirate game) comes with loads of cards and extra cardboard pieces. It's a great game, for over half the cost.

I'm pre-ordering Rage and Skyrim instead, and I'll still spend less than on DF, and have a much longer, much better playing experience.

Yep. It looks interesting, and I am a bit of a sucker for the whole get-it-before-it's-gone thing. I really like building narrative campaigns, and having an easy way to include some naval aspects to a WHFB campaign seems exciting.

I also like the idea of expanding the game myself.

Probably NOT. I'm tired of how much GW charges for their plastic, it's ridiculous. I mean c'mon, economic downturn? Average consumer has LESS money? We'll RAISE prices! $115 is out of line for what you get, MAYBE if I got 10-15 ships PER side & all the terrain & they'd actually planned on releasing more ships at a reasonable price, MAYBE. Honestly though, the whole limited run thing is just a way to get all the little kiddies to get their parents to buy it for them or to try & convince those of us who have a limited income to spend money we'd rather spend elsewhere due to it being "limited" which GW uses as an excuse to up the price.

I never pay retail for GW products anymore. Until now. I am really interested and I think I want it on release day. May even make it into my local GW to pick it up. (shudders)

Well my wallet just got jacked oh wait nope I spent $700 on school books.
I did miss out on space hulk but ya nope friend are so I will get to play


Automatically Appended Next Post:
115 what ate you guys talking about it's 135 in Canada and our dollar is better than the US one ATM this be balls matey.

Red_Starrise wrote:Probably NOT. I'm tired of how much GW charges for their plastic, it's ridiculous.

I really don't think that either Space Hulk or Dread Fleet are hugely expensive for their contents. Premium boardgames command high prices, it's a fact of life. Many of the historical boardgames cost same or even more than Dreadfleet, and really how many times you're going to fight Battle of Singapore? Sure, they contain more playing pieces than Dreadfleet, but DF ships are much larger, and much more detailed than you will probably see in any boardgame, and go for display pieces if you at some point get bored of the game.

That said, I won't be buying DF. Just don't have time or money to invest to yet another game.

No, this is not something I intend to wast my money on. It seems like Gw has deveopled a trend of releasing half assed add ons for WHFB lately

No for a couple of reasons.

First, I won't have built my bank up enough by that point to even consider buying it.

Second, even if I did have the bank built up enough to justify buying models the cost is more than my allowance for play money for over a full month. I'd rather go out and get coffee with friends a few times tbh.

filbert wrote:Nope - far too expensive for a one-off game that most likely won't get played much.

Hit nail on head.

It will be a failure, so I'm not going to buy it.

Red_Starrise wrote:Probably NOT. I'm tired of how much GW charges for their plastic, it's ridiculous. I mean c'mon, economic downturn? Average consumer has LESS money? We'll RAISE prices! $115 is out of line for what you get, MAYBE if I got 10-15 ships PER side & all the terrain & they'd actually planned on releasing more ships at a reasonable price, MAYBE.

A sea mat from Monday Knight (which is a little bigger but not near as nice: $37.
Islands from GF9, smaller and not as detailed though they are prepainted: 30 a set
Add in 10 big ships and several smaller ones, rules, cards, dice, wind indicator and ruler thingy and I can see where the price is really not that bad for what you get. You may not be happy with it, but they are putting a lot into the box and looking at islands and a game mat from other sources in this case GW does not seem too far from the norm.

I am. Like a boss!

RandomSauce19 wrote:I find Dreadfleet overprice (what a surprise!),especially for the size of the miniatures. Only 25x50mm Bases! What about you guys?

This has probably already been pointed out (perhaps multiple times) but the largest ships are 100mm long... not 50mm. There is a scale shot on the GW blog / "What's new" page.

Edit: Also, to answer the original question: Yes, I pre-ordered it last night. This game seems to be right up my alley and I've been looking forward to it very much.

The pre-order cost for Dreadfleet in the United Kingdom is $70 GBP. This converts to 133.34 NZD.

The pre-order cost for Dreadfleet in the USA is $115 USD. This converts to $138.75 NZD.

The pre-order cost for Dreadfleet in New Zealand is $220 NZD. This converts to $155.45 GBP.

I live in New Zealand.

Will I be playing this game? No... No I will not...

Less weird naval one offs, more BFG support.

> GW limited release
> Waiting for a price drop

I'll be purchasing it. And possibly 2 more, if its decent, one for my nephews to use and one for me to butcher and convert. Just like I did for Space Hulk.

Las wrote:Less weird naval one offs, more BFG support.

Well, the books are free online....and you can always convert you own ships up if you really need that model that they don't make/can't find second hand.

vent wrote:The pre-order cost for Dreadfleet in the United Kingdom is $70 GBP. This converts to 133.34 NZD.

The pre-order cost for Dreadfleet in the USA is $115 USD. This converts to $138.75 NZD.

The pre-order cost for Dreadfleet in New Zealand is $220 NZD. This converts to $155.45 GBP.

I live in New Zealand.

Will I be playing this game? No... No I will not...

This ^ .... I live in Canada, so we get the screw you Canada Tax also. This has been going on for about 10-15 years, so it's nothing new.


Neither Will I. If and thats a big IF, I like the looks of some of the ships and want to paint them. I might buy them singly online.

Space Hulk had scenarios, expandability, and dynamic models. When I got bored of Space Hulk, I converted the models to be used in 40k. Those Blood Angels became my first Space Marine models outside of a boxed set.

Dreadfleet doesn't have that luxury. It's a really expensive and untested board game.

I'd rather buy Twilight Imperium with it's expansions. I'd rather buy Settlers/Carcasonne/Dominion and all their dozens of expansions. It'd be the same price.

vent wrote:The pre-order cost for Dreadfleet in the United Kingdom is $70 GBP. This converts to 133.34 NZD.

The pre-order cost for Dreadfleet in the USA is $115 USD. This converts to $138.75 NZD.

The pre-order cost for Dreadfleet in New Zealand is $220 NZD. This converts to $155.45 GBP.

I live in New Zealand.

Will I be playing this game? No... No I will not...

Wow. Are they actually pushing it there? I make it £115 or $180, but for a single game??

Absolutionis wrote:Space Hulk had scenarios, expandability, and dynamic models. When I got bored of Space Hulk, I converted the models to be used in 40k. Those Blood Angels became my first Space Marine models outside of a boxed set.

Dreadfleet doesn't have that luxury. It's a really expensive and untested board game.

I'd rather buy Twilight Imperium with it's expansions. I'd rather buy Settlers/Carcasonne/Dominion and all their dozens of expansions. It'd be the same price.

Just out of curiosity, what was the expansion for Space Hulk 3rd edition? I seem to have missed that.

As for scenarios, since I haven't seen the rule book for this I can't be sure, but I suspect it too has scenarios.

Dread Fleet may fit your definition of a board game, but it is one on a 5 x3.5 ft mat without spaces/zones/hexes/squares, requires measured movement, and that makes it more similar to a table top game vice aboard game in my mind.

Wait for a price drop??? This isn't a video game folks. This thing doesn't get a 50% price cut when it goes platinum.



Anyway, no, not buying it. No interest (the Ghost and Arabay ships are pretty though).

I thought pretty long about it, and decided to forgo getting Dark Souls and Skyrim(which I was iffy about anyways) and got Dread Fleet instead.

At worst, I end up with a game I get a few plays out of and don't enjoy that I can sell on ebay and recoup some of my expenditure depending on how good of condition I keep everything in.

At best, I end up with a game I get regular play out of with some friends who enjoy Warhammer's universe and imagery, but don't have the time or funds to start an army.

Go ahead and open fire if you want to HBMC.

Why would I open fire Kan? All you said was that you were going to buy it, and then you gave some well reasoned and valid points for doing so.

If you had done what you normally do though, which would be to not only tell us that you're buying it but also find anyone who said anything bad about the game and multi-quote them into exhaustion over how 'wrong' they were, then I might say something. But you didn't, so I won't.

No interest here!

H.B.M.C. wrote:Why would I open fire Kan?

It's been that kind of day.

All you said was that you were going to buy it, and then you gave some well reasoned and valid points for doing so.

This actually makes me feel a lot better about the decision to purchase. They felt like justifications or reasonings when I was writing out the list last night, but it does work out better.

If you had done what you normally do though, which would be to not only tell us that you're buying it but also find anyone who said anything bad about the game and multi-quote them into exhaustion over how 'wrong' they were, then I might say something. But you didn't, so I won't.

Do I really do it that often?

Damn. I need to keep myself from multiquoting.

No, tight month with Skyrim, and needing to get Necrons for the elsest lad at Christmas. So At £70 I'll be skipping it.

It also doesn't quite interest me enough, hell I picked up a complete £1000 Man O War collection about six years ago, which I owned for a year and bit before realising I'd played with it twice and broke it up and sold it for £2500.

If that lot didn't hold my interest, I can't see this doing so. Mainly as Aurelia has zero interest in this kind of naval game, and its no fun playig it on your lonesome.

vent wrote:The pre-order cost for Dreadfleet in the United Kingdom is £70 GBP. This converts to 133.34 NZD.

The pre-order cost for Dreadfleet in the USA is $115 USD. This converts to $138.75 NZD.

The pre-order cost for Dreadfleet in New Zealand is $220 NZD. This converts to £155.45 GBP.

But if you bosh us at rugger too heavily I will rescind my support for NZ gamers and lobby GW to increase your prices further!

Not at that price. Paying that kind of price is just boosting GW's ego. It looks like it should be a $60.00 game.

No won't buy it. if i want to play a ship game i'll go with dystopia as it's fething cheaper. also do not like the models one at all :-(

I was genuinely interested in it, but not at $115. And by the time I can get enough cash to buy it there won't be any more left anyway, because it's "limited edition". So I guess I won't be buying it, but only because GW apparently don't want me to.

canute wrote:It looks like it should be a $60.00 game.

I probably would have paid up to $80 for it. That's still huge for an impulse buy but I could do it and then kick myself for it later.

CptJake wrote:

Norsehawk wrote:no. A one off, game like this doesn't interest me. It looks like it has a whopping 1 ship per force in there, and as such, has limited gameplay. The fact that it is a fire and forget release means that there will be no future releases or expansions to the game. Which means that it's pretty much dead on release.

Man, I know what you mean. Lord forbid anyone ever release a Game In A Box! I got burned on Chess. Only six different pieces! Limited terrain! And NO EXPANSIONS!!!!!

Chess isn't a "limited edition" release, if you ever want to play chess you could go to fething Wal-Mart and get a chess set, and it would also be priced appropriately (I'd be surprised if a plain-old chess set cost more than $20+).

That's how you sell a one-off game in the box with no expansions, make it cheap and available. Don't try to tell me it's a board game and then sell it like a high-priced "limited time only" collectible.

That's what annoys me the most about these releases, what the hell are GW selling? Is it a board game or a collectible? Because most of the time board games are available for longer than a god-damned month, because the people who make them want people to keep buying and playing them. GW says "Nah, feth that brah, just make like 300 boxes and call it good. We'll pay the molds off and then whatever profit we make can go to pay dividends."

96 page rulebook? Even if half of that is fluff, that's still a lot of rules for a casual game, which seems to be what this is marked as.

Not a chance.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:

vent wrote:The pre-order cost for Dreadfleet in the United Kingdom is £70 GBP. This converts to 133.34 NZD.

The pre-order cost for Dreadfleet in the USA is $115 USD. This converts to $138.75 NZD.

The pre-order cost for Dreadfleet in New Zealand is $220 NZD. This converts to £155.45 GBP.

But if you bosh us at rugger too heavily I will rescind my support for NZ gamers and lobby GW to increase your prices further!

HA! I'll give my friends the All Blacks a call and let them know their role in the situation...

If it were cheaper - maybe. But as it is - ships don't have much draw for me - and the Unchartered Seas stuff will be around if that ever changes.

Had it been in the $75-85 range I might have been tempted. But it's too pricey for impulse buy range - and I don't like being pressured to "buy buy buy it now now now" with the limited edition stuff.

And considering the Super Dungeon Explore box comes out soon with 50+ minis, boards, scenery, etc for $25 cheaper retail, and will be expanded upon, etc. I'll just wait for that

I don't have the money and it does not really interest me.

Trondheim wrote:No, this is not something I intend to wast my money on. It seems like Gw has deveopled a trend of releasing half assed add ons for WHFB lately

Pretty sure GW made it known this year was going to be a year for Fantasy rather than 40k, which is why you're noticing a lot of Fantasy stuff this year. Also, it's as much an add on for Fantasy as Space Hulk was for 40k. Like, it's not an add on.

There's no need to make stuff up to justify not buying something.

-Loki- wrote: Also, it's as much an add on for Fantasy as Space Hulk was for 40k. Like, it's not an add on.

There's no need to make stuff up to justify not buying something.

Except the models in Space Hulk can be inserted directly into your SM/BA/SW/BT/DA/Tyranid armies after you tire of the scenarios in the game. The modular card in SH can easily be used in sci-fi skirmish level games such as Infinity.

vent wrote:The pre-order cost for Dreadfleet in the United Kingdom is £70 GBP. This converts to 133.34 NZD.

The pre-order cost for Dreadfleet in the USA is $115 USD. This converts to $138.75 NZD.

The pre-order cost for Dreadfleet in New Zealand is $220 NZD. This converts to £155.45 GBP.

Canada doesn't get the short end of the stick the same way that Australia and New Zealand do, but there's also a bit of hate for us Canucks.

£70 GBP -> $108 CAD

$115 USD -> $112 USD

$135 CAD -> £87

It sucks, but at least I'm not Australian!

No, I'm not wasting my money.

$11 on Amazon.

Buying it.

I like pirates. I don't care if that ship has sailed. I like pirates. Sept 19th, International Talk Like a Pirate day. Arrr.

It's a big board game. I might buy one of those every few years. Last one was...Space Hulk. I can afford another now.

It allows you to play with 2 people, or 3, or 4, or 10. I like that. Nice for parties, when you're not sure how many people will show up, or if people will show up late or leave early.

Standalone games are nice. I have no problem with proper wargames, but sometimes, it's nice to not have to cart an army around. Plus, people who don't play 40k/Fantasy can still join in.

I like the models. I know Malifaux is supposed to be good. I have a friend who demos it weekly. I just don't want to own any of the models. I want to own these. I love the Ironclad and the Black Kraken.

I just wish they gave you a estimate on how long a single game takes to play. That's a pretty useful piece of information a lot of board game makers put on the box.

puma713 wrote:


$11 on Amazon.

Thats funny. I dont care who you are.

I just ordered 2.

inquisitorlewis wrote:

puma713 wrote:


$11 on Amazon.

Thats funny. I dont care who you are.

I just ordered 2.

You really don't need two sets of Battleship, 4 person play is awkward and tedious at best.

Da Butcha wrote:

I just wish they gave you a estimate on how long a single game takes to play. That's a pretty useful piece of information a lot of board game makers put on the box.

I wish they had that too, or at least a walk through of the gameplay, so I can judge its complexity and duration.

Why dont they just start BFG again?

Jackster wrote:Why dont they just start BFG again?

Because its games workshop

Jackster wrote:Why dont they just start BFG again?

Because they wanted to do something for Fantasy, and not 40k?

Because they wanted to do something new rather than something that still exists and many people still have their models for?

BFG is fun and all, I know. But risks aren't necessarily bad.

Not buying. It's a once-off of an already established game with models and background.

If it expanded Man-o-war, and had the opportunity for more models, races etc, I would probably buy it. However, because it's a once off limited edition. It just bites.

I welcome GW making more boxed games as I believe that is part of what made them a successful company in the 80s and 90s, which they seem to have lost.

Currently 18% say they will definitely buy it. That's pretty good, I think.

I'll be buying it - based on the models and playing mat alone.

I am sure unofficial rules will come out fairly sharpish for Uncharted Seas stats and for new ships for Dreadfleet based in Man o War and Uncharted ships........

Not interested at all.

I pre-ordered because:

1. I like WH Fantasy
2. The components (not just the ships) look top notch
3. The Map is 5' x 3.5' and the ships are ~100mm...it will look epic on the table!
4. The ships could make excellent scenery for WHFB
5. I ended up paying way over retail for Space Hulk by being slow on the $$ trigger
6. If I change my mind I am sure I will be able to recoup the investment if not a bit of profit

I don't care about expansions or "running out of scenarios". It is a dice/card based boardgame...line up your navy...the other guys will do the same and fight! If I get 10+ plays out of it I will be happy. If it is great enough to warrant more plays than that then I am sure the community will step up and keep it fresh.

For those of you that were really hoping for this announcement to be something else I am truely sorry...I hate disappointment.

I am mainly disapointed at the price, I mean 190 aussie bucks. Too much for me.

NO. for a number of reasons.
As it is currently rumored to be... without expansion. why would i spend 115$ on something with limited playability. There are literally thousands of good board games out there for half the price that offer a different gaming experience each time you play. Its way to much money for a board game. If i want to play a minis game its going to be one that has flexibility and expandability. If 40k was just two sides, chaos and the imperium that would get pretty boring. If you could only play a couple scenarios, and each time the armies were the same, pretty boring. and if you had to buy the afformentioned game without being able to see it and play it, then you would have to be either rich or crazy to throw away money like that.
Im gonna stick to games like Uncharted seas. at least for 115$ i can buy twenty ships and the rules. I have lots of room to expand and there is always the possiblility to take a flotilla different from the one that the scenario dictates. This game is a deffinite NO for me. cheers.

Kilkrazy wrote:I welcome GW making more boxed games as I believe that is part of what made them a successful company in the 80s and 90s, which they seem to have lost.

I would love for GW to make more boxed games as well. But not for $115. Make them for $60 and I'd probably buy each and every one of them for no other reason than that I enjoy the background for both WHF and 40k, but I don't feel that the price they are asking is what I feel comfortable paying for a boxed game. I'd pay $115 as an entry point to a naval skirmish game set in the WHF world, that I could build a fleet for a specific race and expand upon it (Man 'O War?) but I don't see the value for a game that I'll probably play each scenario one time and then set it aside, or end up selling on ebay a year later.

I have just got into uncharted seas, usually I like a one off, stand alone game such as this. I was looking forward to it but must admit that although the product appears to be good quality I am not loving the mix of races. It looks disjointed and all a bit tacky personally, I would imagine its fun enough a few times but no real reason to keep coming back to it regularly

Pirates of the Spanish Main was a great idea and for the most part a great game. Unfortunately it was made by WizKids who could care even less about game balance and fair play than GW. It, like the company that created it, eventually disappeared. It'd be nice if once in a great while GW could make a game where beating the snot out of your opponent wasn't the only purpose of playing.

augustus5 wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:I welcome GW making more boxed games as I believe that is part of what made them a successful company in the 80s and 90s, which they seem to have lost.

I would love for GW to make more boxed games as well. But not for $115. Make them for $60 and I'd probably buy each and every one of them for no other reason than that I enjoy the background for both WHF and 40k, but I don't feel that the price they are asking is what I feel comfortable paying for a boxed game. I'd pay $115 as an entry point to a naval skirmish game set in the WHF world, that I could build a fleet for a specific race and expand upon it (Man 'O War?) but I don't see the value for a game that I'll probably play each scenario one time and then set it aside, or end up selling on ebay a year later.

TBH I don't know what is in Dread Fleet -- I imagine a selection of ship models, a rulebook, some islands and a scenario book.

The overall VFM depends on the quantity and quality of the contents, and personal taste.

If the scenarios are play once only, more can be designed and released, even by players, so that doesn't seem a serious drawback.

Judging by games such as Twilight Imperium III or Ikusa (Shogun), the market price for this kind of game is about £60 to £80 in the UK (includes 20% tax). For that money you expect a good lot of content. There are enough models in Twilight Imperium to take and use for other tabletop space war rules if you wanted.

Specialist wargames are usually around £40 to £60 -- I have recently bought Nightfighter by GMT. That's because they are small production runs. You have to accept the price if you are an enthusiast.

Of course there is also a place for less elaborate games at the £20 to £40 price range. Most "Euro" type board games fall into this category, because they are relatively mass market and have fairly simple components.

I don't think games like that fit the current GW business model, however they used to do well from titles such as Judge Dredd and Talisman.

Funny you should mention Battleship, because Dreadfleet reminds me a lot of this: http://www.wizards.com/wpn/Sales/Article.aspx?x=battleship_galaxies_news

>> 2 Gameboards
>> 20 Plastic ships with bases and stands
>> 24 Ship cards
>> 2 Screens with side supports
>> 2 Coordinate dice
>> 35 Blue pegs
>> 40 Red pegs
>> 2 Energy boards and markers
>> 72 Tactic cards
>> 8 Obstacle tiles
>> 8 Discovery tiles
>> Victory Point tile
>> Rules
>> 2 Quick-reference cards
>> 48 page Graphic Novel

Comes with a gak-ton of cards, two gameboards, and twice as many ships as the Dreadfleet box, which in my opinion are pretty reasonably-detailed judging from what I've seen of them. Maybe they aren't quite as good as the Dreadfleet ships, and maybe the rules won't have the same level of tactical complexity (being Battleship and all), but it's still a comparable amount of stuff, and at full price still comes in considerably cheaper than Dreadfleet at about $70.

Oh yeah, this one also comes with the novel, which GW charges you $8 for.

As already said, its not worth it as a standalone game without expansion.
Moreover, I wouldn't count on falling prizes as its limited.

wuestenfux wrote:As already said, its not worth it as a standalone game without expansion.
Moreover, I wouldn't count on falling prizes as its limited.

When I see "not worth it" and then "Don't count on falling prices" I always thing back to those supply demand curves from basic economics. If it was truly not worth it you COULD count on falling prices. Obviously it IS worth it if they sell out at a specific price point. Maybe not to you, but surely for GW and their shareholders as well as to the customers that buy it at that price point.

Yeah, I could see GW maybe lowering the price in desperation if they can't sell stock, but I have a feeling that won't happen since everyone is obviously going to buy every last box so they can put them up on eBay and sell them for a profit.

I fething hate eBay scalpers so much. I'm gonna do GW a favor here and strongly suggest that if you have any interest in this game at all that you buy it as quickly as possible, because I'd hate for anyone to have to resort to buying one on eBay and being ripped off even more than they would if they paid the retail price.

The fact that Ebay scalpers can charge more is an indicator that GW may have set the price point too low for the amount of product they decided to produce. And since some people are willing to pay the Ebay scalpers' prices, as the overall supply available decreases, it is an indicator that for those customers the higher price point is still worth it.

Again 'Not Worth It' has meaning to the individiual that may be different from the meaning to GW and the market for this product.

I simply cannot afford it at Australia prices.

I bought Space Hulk and loved it.

I have BFG (but haven't played in years)

I'm still sourcing my GW product from overseas at >40% off GWOZ retail, but this game is just so 'out there' on my gaming needs I cannot justify it even on a cheaper price.

So time and money (or a lack thereof) combine for me to reject a purchase.

No. Looks incredibly boring. I wish it was something for their core games.

CptJake wrote:The fact that Ebay scalpers can charge more is an indicator that GW may have set the price point too low for the amount of product they decided to produce. And since some people are willing to pay the Ebay scalpers' prices, as the overall supply available decreases, it is an indicator that for those customers the higher price point is still worth it.

Again 'Not Worth It' has meaning to the individiual that may be different from the meaning to GW and the market for this product.

I think it is more the case that GW make so few copies that Y amount of ebay scalpers are able to buy up X number of copies, meaning you have YX number of copies sitting out of regular circulation so people who actually want a copy can't get one and have to buy at the inflated price if they want to be able to play the game.

But that is for games which have large and strong followings such as SH. It remains to be seen whether DF will command the same kind of ebay prices and demand.

Got mine

augustus5 wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:I welcome GW making more boxed games as I believe that is part of what made them a successful company in the 80s and 90s, which they seem to have lost.

I would love for GW to make more boxed games as well. But not for $115. Make them for $60 and I'd probably buy each and every one of them for no other reason than that I enjoy the background for both WHF and 40k, but I don't feel that the price they are asking is what I feel comfortable paying for a boxed game. I'd pay $115 as an entry point to a naval skirmish game set in the WHF world, that I could build a fleet for a specific race and expand upon it (Man 'O War?) but I don't see the value for a game that I'll probably play each scenario one time and then set it aside, or end up selling on ebay a year later.

115.00 is pretty much at the top end for Board Games right now, but comparing DF to other board games, the price is pretty much in line for what you get. FFG's big games are pushing into the same price range. Fortune and Glory came out this week at 100, with less stuff in it. Ikusa at 80.00 has less complex figures, but has excellant mechanics, and known quality. Lots of 50-60 boardgames that come with nothing but a board, stack of cards, and a d6 or two.

So while pushing the envelope a bit, not out of line at all, based on price vs. components. Everyone's going to have their own comfort zone for what they want to pay, but I think in this case the price is not at all out of line with the game. (Especially if you're a DCM )

Buying 30, but only keeping 2 for myself.

Would that be to stock in your shops then?

Pre-ordered yesterday.

Cost (for me, here in the U.S.A.) = $115

Worth = Dunno yet (my crystal ball is in the shop), as a large part of the "worth" is going to depend on how much enjoyment it provides. Having spent my $115, I am obviously calculating*, and hoping, that it will be worth it.

*Factors figuring into my personal calculation include (YM will obviously V):
- $115 is currently within my means (and, as others have explained, it is kinda the going rate for something like this, GW or not)
- I know I have at least one person to play against (and who will probably help with assembling/painting)
- No real worries about the quality of the components (does anyone really think they'll be sub-par?) and, to my eye, they are aesthetically pleasing
- Looks like fun (yes based on promotional info provided by the co. selling it. Guess I'm not as offended by cheesy voice overs as some )
- I like this kind of stuff

CptJake wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:As already said, its not worth it as a standalone game without expansion.
Moreover, I wouldn't count on falling prizes as its limited.

When I see "not worth it" and then "Don't count on falling prices" I always thing back to those supply demand curves from basic economics. If it was truly not worth it you COULD count on falling prices. Obviously it IS worth it if they sell out at a specific price point. Maybe not to you, but surely for GW and their shareholders as well as to the customers that buy it at that price point.

True. But 'not worth' is just my personal judgement. Space Hulk was a big success in the sense that has been 'sold out', same goes eventually with Dreadfleet.

I voted no..

1) Don't like that they didn't officially announce it till a week before release. Just. plain. stupid. moron. marketing.

2) Limited release and once it's sold out, it's gone for good.

that means, since I budget myself and can't afford to drop $115 in one go (on a game I'll play twice if I'm lucky), I'd have to save up an extra month's "fun stuff budget" .. by that time, it will be gone or there will be something else I'm more interested in, like hopefully new Necrons. (which they won't announce till a week before)

They should've done a 25th anniversary space hulk. Would've gotten my money that way.

Necros wrote:I voted no..

1) Don't like that they didn't officially announce it till a week before release. Just. plain. stupid. moron. marketing.

2) Limited release and once it's sold out, it's gone for good.

that means, since I budget myself and can't afford to drop $115 in one go (on a game I'll play twice if I'm lucky), I'd have to save up an extra month's "fun stuff budget" .. by that time, it will be gone or there will be something else I'm more interested in, like hopefully new Necrons. (which they won't announce till a week before)

Announcement was 17 Sep, release is 1 Oct. That would be a little more than a week on most calendars. Of course they could have annouced it 5 years ago, and due to your second point then further comments you probably would not have bought it anyway, so their announcement timeline is really a moot point for you.

well yeah, it's really the whole limited thing that bugs me the most... I could see doing that with a set of multi colored magic dice and little extras like that. I would have rather they just stuck to making models like always, and let a real boardgame company like Fantasy Flight take it over.

It's picking up interest in my FLGS. Two more guys are preordering and another one would if he had the cash.

Hmm... if multiple people within the same gaming group get a copy... what do you do? It's not like Hulk, where sets can be combined or where scenarios are generic enough to include two of the same thing (two guys with Lightning Claws, for example) - here each ship is a unique character, so what happens?

Will have to wait and see how it plays I guess.

I suppose you could alter the alliances a bit. Perhaps have the Araby one added to the 'baddies' and the Tomb King one added to the 'goodies' fleets.

My guess is the same thing that happens when multiple people in a gaming group own a copy of Monopoly? A $115 copy of Monopoly with very nice components.

They get renamed to have different captains that come from the same origins and as such share the same rules / benefits? Entire fleets made up of mechanical krakens etc etc?

what i dont understand is the motivation to try and transform this game into something its not. If GW had wanted to remake manowar they would have. Instead they released this. If you reallly want to have a fleet on fleet experience is it really worth rolling the dice on something like this in the hopes that it can be made to work for fleet oriented battles, instead of just buying into one of the already exisiting and cheaper systems.?

The GW universe just isnt that important to me as an aspect of game play to risk a 115$ on this.

No thanks.

I have to wonder how that might screw up the balance of the game.

EDIT: That's in response to Kitch.

Meh, twas just an answer to a question. I don't think it'd screw it up as you'd still have "good guys vs bad guys", just on a grander scale.

I dunno, I don't have enough experience to know if it'd work or not, I just see it as being more models and more dice tbh

I don't like the ships, it's overpriced AND made by Games Workshop.

I want to play the game for sure.. Im glad another in my group is buying it, cause I sure wont

CptJake wrote:The fact that Ebay scalpers can charge more is an indicator that GW may have set the price point too low for the amount of product they decided to produce.

I think it has more to do with the "limited quantities" than anything else, actually. eBay scalpers can charge more because when it's sold out it becomes a rare collectible. And then people see it and think "Oh jeez that's rare and worth a lot of money, I bet that'll only go up in value as time goes on so I better buy one and lock it away forever!"

Or pretty much what SilverMK2 already said, lol...

I love the idea of a self contained, out of the box game. I also like the quality of the GW box games.

Although that being said, I’m not really a fan of naval games or the $190AUD price tag. Also none of the promo material talks about how the rules work and as a rules buff, core functionality is important to me. I’d be tempted if the game was cheaper and came with more miniatures in the box.

There are some really good self contained boxed games at the moment like Castle Ravenloft, Pathfinder, SuperDungeon Explore and the Warmachine 2 Player battlebox (all of these can be expanded in some form). Realistically Dreadfleet should have a hard time competing with these products. That being said, GW probably has enough hard core fans quickly sell all of their copies of Dreadfleet.

LOL.

It looks silly, IMO. They wasted a large chunk of time making a boat game (Sounds worse each time I say it) When they could've been doing models for
-Crons
-Tau
-Eldar
You catch my drift. So I'll put £70 (For boats (MENTAL)) away for something, anything else.

Nearly got it as I find the idea intriguing, but changed my mind...I do know someone who's getting it so I should be able to have a few games anyway.

My reasons for not buying are the fact it seems quite expensive for what would have been an impulse buy, and the fact that I'm not sure I like the look of some of the wackier-looking models. For example, I don't think the Araby one needs a huge creature on the back blowing into the sails, I think the Elf one would have looked better with masts instead of towers, and one of them appears to have an actual stone castle on the deck. I would have much preferred more realistic-looking ships. I'm also surprised to see no Orc ships.

Depends on if it gets good reviews when it comes out.

sennacherib wrote:what i dont understand is the motivation to try and transform this game into something its not. If GW had wanted to remake manowar they would have.

The motivation comes from not wanting to support a Specialist Game. This game is a single box game, no other support needed.

Kilkrazy wrote:I welcome GW making more boxed games as I believe that is part of what made them a successful company in the 80s and 90s, which they seem to have lost.

I couldn't agree more. Plus I believe that with the mechanics there is a lot of room to see fan expansions, conversions, and scratch builds. I look forward to seeing all of that.

I think it's cool. Fantasy and naval are two tastes that aren't exactly part of my palette, but the toys look nice and hopefully the rules match. If someone had a set, I'd happily play it with them. I don't like that GW keeps making limited run boardgames, at least to the degree they have been though. $115 is a tad pricey for it, but compared to other boardgames of that quality that's pretty decent.

poipo32 wrote:I don't like the ships, it's overpriced AND made by Games Workshop.

As pointed out many times, it's actually not overpriced. It's sitting at the upper end of board game prices though, which is actually fair given the quality of miniatures and game mat provided.

Worth is a relative concept. To me, paying US$200 for Warhammer Quest and US$40-50 for each of the character packs was 'worth it'. To many, this game is not 'worth' the money. To Australians/New Zealanders/Japanese/anyone who isn't US or UK/Europe, this isn't worth anything at all...

Mr Mystery wrote:I suppose you could alter the alliances a bit. Perhaps have the Araby one added to the 'baddies' and the Tomb King one added to the 'goodies' fleets.

And for how long will players get blood from that particular stone before it starts to repeat itself?

Nope, not a chance.

A few years ago I'd probably of been all over it like a rash, but not now.

I like some of the models, but some, to me, are just butt ugly, and I do like the idea of a naval game (I loved Man O' War), but as so many have said - the mish mash of races just doesn't do anything for me.

£70 for this is just far to much for me to consider. I don't play games anymore, and I don't really have anywhere to keep it - so I'll pass.

Must admit the variety of ships grabs me more than two sides - especially for a one off.

I am sure that they will either be stated for Uncharted Seas or the Uncharted Seas ships will appear for Dread fleet by someone

Nope, i'm not willing to pay $190 for a game that I won't use. Hell if I wanted to build model ships, I would make my titantic model that I've had for about 15 years.

After I played a particularly good hand this weekend (letting Mrs notprop lay-in both days, being the exemplar of the loving fun dad, cooking some decent scran and taking one and all to a local regatta) I popped the question and the Chairwoman of the board instantly okayed the purchase of Dreadfleet.

The to make this even sweeter, having spent over £3k on house/car insurance and a new boiler myself in the last week she offered to buy it for me!

Was not expecting that! I knew there was a reason I kept her about the place.

Arrghh me hearties! Splice the main brace; strangle the parrot, run up the cabinboy, tot a rum all round!

DrownedRat117 wrote:LOL.

It looks silly, IMO. They wasted a large chunk of time making a boat game (Sounds worse each time I say it) When they could've been doing models for
-Crons
-Tau
-Eldar
You catch my drift. So I'll put £70 (For boats (MENTAL)) away for something, anything else.

I don't think that is necessarily correct.

GW employ 82 staff in their R&D studio. They can't lack for resource to produce new stuff.

They also have cash on hand to invest in production, and, if a game like this is successful -- i.e. profitable -- then there will be even more money for doing Necrons and Tau.

Kilkrazy wrote:They also have cash on hand to invest in production, and, if a game like this is successful -- i.e. profitable -- then there will be even more money for doing Necrons and Tau.

But they can't afford to keep selling the game though, that would be crazy. If it becomes popular and you want to buy it a month after it's released you're just fethed.

I'm admitting to being tempted. I'm not going to be bounced into a snap decision though. I'm going to wait a couiple of weeks and see if I still want it. If my desire has gone off the boil, then I'll not bite. If I still do want it, and its sold out (unlikely?) then I'll just shrug my shoulders. There are plenty of other options for my £70 out there at the moment.

To be honest, I do not see this selling out as quickly as Spulk did and there were copies of that available many weeks after the initial release. I'm will in to bet there were muppets that bought it from eBay whenit was still available in store.

As for me this won't be the first thing I've bought without the nod from internet experts/reviews. I think that it looks nice, we'lljust have to see if it plays nice.

Sidstyler wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:They also have cash on hand to invest in production, and, if a game like this is successful -- i.e. profitable -- then there will be even more money for doing Necrons and Tau.

But they can't afford to keep selling the game though, that would be crazy. If it becomes popular and you want to buy it a month after it's released you're just fethed.

Space Hulk was available longer than a month. Since the consensus here seems to be that this game sucks becasue

1. It is from GW
2. It is a limited edition
3. It isn't X where X is what ever the poster desired
4. It is over priced and not X where X is what ever the poster desired

Then it stands to reason there will be copies of this available for quite some time. And since you didn't want it any way, why care even if it did sell out?

Sidstyler wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:They also have cash on hand to invest in production, and, if a game like this is successful -- i.e. profitable -- then there will be even more money for doing Necrons and Tau.

But they can't afford to keep selling the game though, that would be crazy. If it becomes popular and you want to buy it a month after it's released you're just fethed.

What I mean is say the production cost of the game was £25 and they made 100,000 copies. Say they make £10 profit on each copy sold, they only need sell 71,000 to break even and when they've sold the entire production run they will have made a profit of about £1,000,000.

They don't need to keep selling the game forever. It being a "limited edition" will increase its appeal to the right customer.

If people like it and think it will sell out, they had better buy it soon.

Not for me

I wont be getting it, I'm dissapointed that they didn't re-release Hero/Warhammer Quest instead. If people wanted to play a naval game, they wouldn't/shouldn't choose GW IMO.

Pre-ordered my copy today

Personally, I think it looks nice.

This game might have gone over better had GW done it back when the PotC movies were popular.

If you follow that logic then you will have to wait until they make the next D&D film to get a Warhammer Quest.

I'd rather have the latter without the former if the previous effort was anything to go by.

Anyway since when does Warhammer have anything to do with popular culture?

notprop wrote:Anyway since when does Warhammer have anything to do with popular culture?

It worked when the Lord of the Rings movies came out....for a while at least.

At first I was like, "meh". Then I looked again, and was like "mm pretty cool". Then I came back the next day and looked again and thought, "looks cool but there's no way I can afford it...". Then I came and looked some more.... went back again, watched the video.... came back again again and said I MUST HAVE IT NOW, BUY BUY BUY...

And then there was silence.

Damn GW.

I have space hulk, I played old space hulk, I LIKE space hulk. Man o War (or its 115 dollar derivative) doesn't really do it for me, so its a big no for me.

Never

Gorechild wrote:

notprop wrote:Anyway since when does Warhammer have anything to do with popular culture?

It worked when the Lord of the Rings movies came out....for a while at least.

[pedant]I said warhammer, not the third system that did for my beloved Epic! [/pedant]

I shall try to get past this but I guess that we will have to just take things one day at a time.

No promises. x


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Arclaw wrote:At first I was like, "meh". Then I looked again, and was like "mm pretty cool". Then I came back the next day and looked again and thought, "looks cool but there's no way I can afford it...". Then I came and looked some more.... went back again, watched the video.... came back again again and said I MUST HAVE IT NOW, BUY BUY BUY...

And then there was silence.

...

And don't forget the sense of shame, failure and dirtyness.

But mostly the shame.

Don't worry it will pass when the shiny new box arrives.

Gorechild wrote:

notprop wrote:Anyway since when does Warhammer have anything to do with popular culture?

It worked when the Lord of the Rings movies came out....for a while at least.

Absolutely. For a time it was wonderful, I was working for GW at the time and we could barely get stock out on the shelves before it was snatched by customers.
And again there was a brief surge when the movies appeared on DVD and came back into the public consciousness. What came afterwards however would not make comfortable reading.

I still maintain however it was a wonderful bit of initiative by GW and has no doubt made some people extremely rich off the back of it.

Also, that tying into a release such as the Star Wars prequels would have been a similarly big (if not bigger) opportunity. I don't know whether it would have been possible because of licensing issues, but nevertheless if handled in the same way as LoTR it would have been a great opportunity.

Pirates of the Caribbean maybe not so much (and we would have all argued that GW had sold a large chunk of its soul) but nevertheless maybe something could have been done off the back of it.

Pacific wrote:Pirates of the Caribbean maybe not so much (and we would have all argued that GW had sold a large chunk of its soul) but nevertheless maybe something could have been done off the back of it.

Something was done. Pirates of the Spanish Main "constructable" card game was pushed out within a year of the movie and for the most part was a pretty big success for WizKids, especially given the expectation of sequals to the PotC movie. Now styrene cutouts are obviously cheaper to design and produce than plastic sprues but still, it shows that a company can leverage external markets to drive sales. GW simply (pardon the pun) missed the boat.

Not interested in spending $115 on a one off game no one will be playing in two months that I can't even use the models elsewhere. Especially when there is my Ogre Kingdoms to expand on and I've just discovered how awesome Bloodbowl is.

Tzeentchling9 wrote:Not interested in spending $115 on a one off game no one will be playing in two months that I can't even use the models elsewhere. Especially when there is my Ogre Kingdoms to expand on and I've just discovered how awesome Bloodbowl is.

Well, the point is that it doesn't matter if anyone's playing it in two months if you have the game. You can just have anybody play with you straight of the box. I don't care if nobody's playing Memoir '44 anymore, since I can just break out the game and ask just about anyone to play and they will.

CptJake wrote:

RandomSauce19 wrote:I find Dreadfleet overprice (what a surprise!),especially for the size of the miniatures. Only 25x50mm Bases! What about you guys?

I think the models are a lot bigger than that.

From the GW web site:

Well the Heldenhammer is 100mm long and 110mm tall

If your gonna trash the game you should at least be accurate.

If you going to post in a thread, why not offer a opinion on the topic and not just on how well/what someone else replies?

I think we all know how well GW supports their 'One off' games. Meaning, not interested in it for me.

I voted no. Not interested in the price or content. Would have preferred that they put the energy into reviving BFG.

I still haven't played through every mission in Space Hulk nor painted any of the models. I just don't think I'll ever actually play Dreadfleet. So I voted maybe (but it'll likely end up "no").

alarmingrick wrote:

CptJake wrote:

RandomSauce19 wrote:I find Dreadfleet overprice (what a surprise!),especially for the size of the miniatures. Only 25x50mm Bases! What about you guys?

I think the models are a lot bigger than that.

From the GW web site:

Well the Heldenhammer is 100mm long and 110mm tall

If your gonna trash the game you should at least be accurate.

If you going to post in a thread, why not offer a opinion on the topic and not just on how well/what someone else replies?

I think we all know how well GW supports their 'One off' games. Meaning, not interested in it for me.

Thanks for the advice. I have a few posts on this topic and the other topic ( http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/392918.page#0 ) about the game. So I have given my opinion. I'm also of the opinion that if you are gonna trash something, you should be accurate. Can't see where that is not a valid opinion either.

Speaking of valid opinions:

Just out of curiosity, how much support do you expect for a 'One Off' game? How much support for a 'One Off' game changes your level of interest? Care to offer more of an opinion? Pot, meet Kettle....

It doesn't look like my kind of game.

Brother SRM wrote:

Tzeentchling9 wrote:Not interested in spending $115 on a one off game no one will be playing in two months that I can't even use the models elsewhere. Especially when there is my Ogre Kingdoms to expand on and I've just discovered how awesome Bloodbowl is.

Well, the point is that it doesn't matter if anyone's playing it in two months if you have the game. You can just have anybody play with you straight of the box. I don't care if nobody's playing Memoir '44 anymore, since I can just break out the game and ask just about anyone to play and they will.

Tell that to all those people with Space Hulk*.

*I'm sure people still play it, but I only play at my local GW and it's a myth there now.

After making this thread I've noticed most people don't like the price. Would people buy this if it was say £30?

RandomSauce19 wrote:After making this thread I've noticed most people don't like the price. Would people buy this if it was say £30?

Probably. Just to clarify, in my case it isn't necessarily that £70 is too much or too high, rather I don't personally consider it particularly good value for money. One of the reasons why opinion is split so much when it comes to GW releases I guess.

RandomSauce19 wrote:After making this thread I've noticed most people don't like the price. Would people buy this if it was say £30?

That's about $50 US, and I'd be all over the game at that price. Even though there are some elements, aesthetically, that I don't like, I think that is a great price point to get me into the game. I'd probably pay up to $70 for DF. At $115, it's pretty much a joke to me.

Edit: I just wanted to add that I'd pay up to $70 for the game, even if it had lower quality playing pieces. For a basic board game, that I'm not really going to convert and show off, or build a large cohesive army out of, I don't really care how detailed the pieces are. If GW could have produced DF at a lower price point, by spending less time on the models, I would have been a buyer.

RandomSauce19 wrote:After making this thread I've noticed most people don't like the price. Would people buy this if it was say £30?

Probably not. I'm not interested because:
1) unpainted, unassembled models;
2) lots of rules (96 page rulebook? No thanks.)

It's not what I'm looking for in a boardgame. If it takes more than 10-15 minutes to understand how the game plays, it's too complicated. Ditto for setup.

biccat wrote:

Probably not. I'm not interested because:
1) unpainted, unassembled models;
2) lots of rules (96 page rulebook? No thanks.)

It's not what I'm looking for in a boardgame. If it takes more than 10-15 minutes to understand how the game plays, it's too complicated. Ditto for setup.

QFT. I have lots of board / card games that don't involve 3 credit hours of study to learn. Certainly don't want to pay that price for the privilege... And, just like taking a random community college course, I'd only get about 3 months of enjoyment out of it.

We have been playing Killer Bunnies, and it is a total hit. People who would be completely intimidated or bored by Dreadfleet easily learn Killer Bunnies, and we can get as many expansions as needed.

So Dreadfleet is a no for me. If there would have been demo games this weekend, it may have been a yes. As it stands, it is too much money to risk purchase of something that is looking likely to be dead in the water. Realistically, cost of dreadfleet is comparable to 2 battlewagons. That clinched it for me - would much rather make a battlewagon rush than buy this thing that will sit on a shelf!

2 x Edit: Writing FAIL... maybe I should go re-take intro to English

I got Space Hulk "for free"-meaning I worked off enough hours in the game store to pay for it, without having to pay out of pocket. Paid in time. But I knew I could use the models after I was done with it (and I do), but this unfortunately would be a waste. Between Fantasy and 40k, Warhammer Invasion (card game from FFG), and my Xbox 360, this game holds no place in my wallet. Cool concept? Sure. But not at $115. If I could still work it off in an afternoon/evening without paying cash, then sure. But dropping a ton of money on something that doesn't have any long term benefits? Nope, moving on to something else.

No.

Why?

Can you say ManOWar? Yes we have all been there before! This is an old idea, and not a very good one originally...

Over the years I have learned that GW does a terrible job supporting everything/anything they make that isn't a flagship title. It's bad enough to keep up with codex creep and versions in the flagship games...

So no matter how interesting a new game of theirs looks I'd never bother with it, in 3 months it'll just be another worthless tag on the specialist games part of their website of over priced junk they have forgotten. Or completely discontinued.

Look at this list:

Adeptus Titanicus
Space Marine
EPIC Warhammer 40,000
Advanced Space Crusade
Battlefleet Gothic
Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay
Necromunda
Gorkamorka
ManOWar
Bloodbowl
Mordheim
Spacehulk
Warmaster
Inquisitor
Battle of Five Armies

now Dreadfleet?

I'm sure it will be different!...

Don't waste your time my friends!

Looks like there's more people not into the game than I thought it woulda been. I won't call it a flop because there's enough people that will buy it regardless and it'll still be sold out in no time. But.. I think it would have been much more well received if it tied in with a current range. Like, space hulk had models you could also use in 40K, and aside from it being a great game, that was also a great added bonus.

Augustus wrote:No.

Why?

Can you say ManOWar? Yes we have all been there before! This is an old idea, and not a very good one originally...

Over the years I have learned that GW does a terrible job supporting everything/anything they make that isn't a flagship title. It's bad enough to keep up with codex creep and versions in the flagship games...

So no matter how interesting a new game of theirs looks I'd never bother with it, in 3 months it'll just be another worthless tag on the specialist games part of their website of over priced junk they have forgotten. Or completely discontinued.

Look at this list:

Adeptus Titanicus
Space Marine
EPIC Warhammer 40,000
Advanced Space Crusade
Battlefleet Gothic
Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay
Necromunda
Gorkamorka
ManOWar
Bloodbowl
Mordheim
Spacehulk
Warmaster
Inquisitor
Battle of Five Armies

now Dreadfleet?

I'm sure it will be different!...

Don't waste your time my friends!

Just out of curiosity, what kind of support do you think Space Hulk should have gotten that it didn't? How about Battle of the Five Armies? Several of the other games are either still available for sale and or free download. The first three were evolutionary and the next step, Epic Armagedon is available for free. Seriously, what type of support did you want that was not provided? Several of the games have extensive web and fan based content as well as GW provided web content/downloads. Figures for a lot of them are available...

I'm not trying to be a wise ass. I just don't understand what 'lack of support' means for these games, or what type of support is expected for a 'Game in the Box' like Space Hulk or Dread Fleet. Space Hulk saw GW give us online painting guides, a mission planning tool (that admittedly wasn't that great) and some other online content. I'm sure Dread Fleet will get the same over the next month or two. What else is desired for a one off game?

Flashman wrote:No, I liked the idea of a naval game, but the execution doesn't really interest me.

Agreed 100%. Add the huge price to that and its just a big no.


Ill also agree with those who want a WHQ remake, Id have bought one of those.

CptJake wrote:

Augustus wrote:...

Don't waste your time my friends!

Just out of curiosity, what kind of support do you think Space Hulk should have gotten that it didn't? How about Battle of the Five Armies? Several of the other games are either still available for sale and or free download. The first three were evolutionary and the next step, Epic Armagedon is available for free. Seriously, what type of support did you want that was not provided? Several of the games have extensive web and fan based content as well as GW provided web content/downloads. Figures for a lot of them are available...

I'm not trying to be a wise ass. I just don't understand what 'lack of support' means for these games, or what type of support is expected for a 'Game in the Box' like Space Hulk or Dread Fleet. Space Hulk saw GW give us online painting guides, a mission planning tool (that admittedly wasn't that great) and some other online content. I'm sure Dread Fleet will get the same over the next month or two. What else is desired for a one off game?

Ok fair to say, allow me to explain a little. Generally my opinions are based on years of play, did they eventually do some stuff for EPIC 40k, sure, is there some limited stuff for other games, yes. I'm not really going to budge on 'FAN' sites though, there's all kinds of fan stuff out there.

I went years with nothing, for games I used to love,and I'm sick of that, most of those games just disappeared one day and had years of neglect. Spacehulk is a great example, could you buy a game (between the DC and the rerelease)? No, were they selling it? No. Did they do expansions? No, could you get replacement minis? No etc.

GW just drops their stuff on the floor.

Furthermore they don't really respect the older works, if you have a copy of Adeptus Titanicus and Space Marine, EPIC 40k is a completely different game. It's like they intellectually trampled all over the original. I wouldn't want to go through that sort of thing again either.
Also one of THE most important parts is GW doesn't support independent retailers with any of that stuff, I want to buy it off the shelf locally, but they don't give stores terms, so you never see it, you have to order it direct, and this keeps communities form growing around it. I think it's a circular problem, that keeps them in the 'limited release' mindset. They design and market these for short term obsolescence, what they should do instead is stand behind their product and retailers and fully support the non flagship games, but they never do.

That's also what I mean.

If you had sat on your ManOWar fleets for years and scoured eBay, etc. what would you think of this...?

Dear GW,

Please stop wasting time on money grubbing gimmicks and come out with something that people actually want to buy.

For instance, Codex: Necrons would be a great start.

Codex: Necrons/Tau/Eldar > Dreadfleet and its cheap, quick revenue equivalents.

biccat wrote:96 page rulebook

WTF? Thats absolutely crazy.

That does sound pretty big for a boardgame? Has anyone actually seen this? Not full of images and fluff?

Hmm.

I havent decided yet. I kind of want it just to have it. But I've got other things that need immediate attention of my finances so I may end up missing it unless someone I know agrees to get me a copy in exchange for some old models.

RandomSauce19 wrote:After making this thread I've noticed most people don't like the price. Would people buy this if it was say £30?

£30 is a pipe-dream. I don't have a problem with the UK price. It's expensive, but no more so than most comparable board games.

The Australian price is a joke, though.

biccat wrote:Probably not. I'm not interested because:
1) unpainted, unassembled models;
2) lots of rules (96 page rulebook? No thanks.)

It's not what I'm looking for in a boardgame. If it takes more than 10-15 minutes to understand how the game plays, it's too complicated. Ditto for setup.

I’m the same as well when searching for boardgames. The miniatures have to be at least assembled (or snap fit) and the rules streamlined so that they only take a small period of time to understand. Boardgames operate very differently from tabletop wargames and thus need to be built differently.

What’s odd is about Dreadfleet is that it seems to be more of a tabletop wargame (miatures on sprue, 96 page rulebook) rather than a boardgame yet it is packaged and marketed as a boardgame.

$115 for THOSE minis?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Maybe if they pay me to paint that OTT BS.

insaniak wrote:

RandomSauce19 wrote:After making this thread I've noticed most people don't like the price. Would people buy this if it was say £30?

£30 is a pipe-dream. I don't have a problem with the UK price. It's expensive, but no more so than most comparable board games.

The Australian price is a joke, though.

Is the Aus price as high as NZ? This blog says 155GBP equivalent, which is beyond joke and into simply unbelievable territory..

http://schola-progenium.blogspot.com/2011/09/single-cry-in-darkness.html

Not sure what my chances would be of getting a copy in SK if I was so inclined, somewhere between a nothing and zero I guess.

I think he has his sums wrong -

$220 New Zealand dollars converts to £115 GBP approx.

Still bloody expensive though!

At £70 I would drop that money down in a heart beat if it had a FFG tag on it but with GW not a chance. If they bugger those rules up then they won't go back and fix it.

At least with Space Hulk you knew what you were getting and it was an expansion to some good old school GW board game love. This is something out of knowhere where its heart to like it when there is nothing to relate to.

I am seriously tempted. It's so incredibly expensive. I agree that I would have taken a lesser quality set of models for a $90 price tag instead of the $115 beast that it is.

I once read an article about budgeting your entertainment dollar, and the advice proffered in the article was that you should figure out exactly how much it's worth to you to be entertained for 1 hour and then do the math. Not "zoning out in front of the TV" entertained, but "sit up straight and get lost in it" entertained. Once you figure that hourly amount out, it's easy to see which purchases are more worth it and which are not. The example the article used was a video game versus a movie. If your hour of entertainment was worth $5, say, then going to a $10 movie for 2 hours is pretty much worth it immediately, while a $60 video game has to entertain you for 12 hours to be worth it.

There's no way I'm getting 24-30 hours of entertainment from Dreadfleet. Maybe if I include the painting time? So even though I want it, I will probably not get it.

I already pre-ordered mine. I enjoy the whole 'game in a box' concept. I think Dreadfleet will be great fun as a beer-n-pretzels game.

I had preordered about 5 minutes after it appeared on the website, just to ensure I got a copy. However today I cancelled my order, the best reaction I got at my gaming club was a "pffft, why?" so with no opponents and Games Day coming up, I figured it wasn't that good an investment for me to make. Plus I think I'd rather have the spare cash to spend at Games Day on Sunday adding to my army instead, at least then I won't feel even more guilty about any extra impulse buys I may make!

I think £70 (personally anyway) is at the point where I have to really justify it to myself whether I will get some use out of it, at least in the terms of wargaming hobby of course, and having just started playing fantasy again after 6 years out, I've got enough rules to learn as it is.

It seems like it's not selling as well as Space Hulk did so perhaps after next month's payday, if there's still any available, I'll pick one up, but not now, 5 days before Games Day! Strange release schedule, I hope they have copies out so we can have a go at least on Sunday, that may influence me a bit.

Hmm.

Mad4Minis wrote:

biccat wrote:96 page rulebook

WTF? Thats absolutely crazy.

As we can see from the previews, there' a 2-page spread (statline and fluff) for each ship. That's 20 pages right there before even getting into the backstory. And the rules pages seem to be over 50% illustrations and diagrams. Then there's scenarios... I doubt the actual rules text is dauntlessly long.

I am fortunate enough in the fact that I don't have to decide whether or not I want it. My GF preordered it using her money as soon as it posted on their website.

Getting it without having to pay for it = winning!

lord_blackfang wrote:

Mad4Minis wrote:

biccat wrote:96 page rulebook

WTF? Thats absolutely crazy.

As we can see from the previews, there' a 2-page spread (statline and fluff) for each ship. That's 20 pages right there before even getting into the backstory. And the rules pages seem to be over 50% illustrations and diagrams. Then there's scenarios... I doubt the actual rules text is dauntlessly long.

The rules for Carcassone fit on the front and back of an (about) A4 sheet of paper.

Scrabble rules are printed on the inside of the box cover.

Settlers of Catan are explained in 3-4 pages.

Lets look at DreadFleet:

Start with the 96 pages, subtract out the 20 pages for the ship spreads. Then cut the rest in half, assigning half to fluff (why do you need 30+ pages of fluff for a game in a box? I don't know, but we'll be generous) and half to rules. Again being generous we'll say that half of the rules is illustrations and diagrams. That still leaves 19 pages of rules.

Now I could be wrong, and it could be only 3-4 pages of actual rules content, which is pretty reasonable. However, if all of the rules can be explained in 3-4 pages, why have a 96 page rulebook?

Space Hulk 2nd edition (the one I have access to right now): 32 page rule book + larger book with scenarios and painting guide. Probably close to 70 pages total.

Since everyone seems to want to compare this to space hulk maybe that would be a better comparison for rule books.

You could also use the BoFA set as a good example. Table top game in a box. How long was that rule book?

biccat wrote:
The rules for Carcassone fit on the front and back of an (about) A4 sheet of paper.

Scrabble rules are printed on the inside of the box cover.

Settlers of Catan are explained in 3-4 pages.

And they're fine and dandy if you want to play with your pre-teen kids and maybe even invite grandpa along. Dreadfleet is probably not aimed at casuals (the raw sprues kinda give it away) but at gamers who like a little depth (hah, nautical pun!) How many pages is Descent, or Horus Heresy, or Space Hulk? That's probably more in the right ballpark. Hoping for something as in-depth as Monsterpocalypse (40 pages raw combat rules) is probably a bit too much to hope for.

Mad4Minis wrote:

biccat wrote:96 page rulebook

WTF? Thats absolutely crazy.

Yeah, who the hell wants those 12 different scenarios that form a campaign?

One off games of candyland are where it's at!

Really? You guys are are complaining about MORE content?

I have 30 coming into my store. Half are already spoken for over the weeked. At this rate I'll be sold out and begging GW to let me have more copies by the time it ships out. Hopefully can get more so I can have a big stack to sell through Christmas.

lord_blackfang wrote:And they're fine and dandy if you want to play with your pre-teen kids and maybe even invite grandpa along. Dreadfleet is probably not aimed at casuals (the raw sprues kinda give it away) but at gamers who like a little depth (hah, nautical pun!) How many pages is Descent, or Horus Heresy, or Space Hulk? That's probably more in the right ballpark. Hoping for something as in-depth as Monsterpocalypse (40 pages raw combat rules) is probably a bit too much to hope for.

You can explain chess in a few sentences, yet it is probably the most tactical and challenging war-game that exists. In fact, Dreadfleet likely won't hold a candle to chess, tactically speaking. Having more pages in a rulebook doesn't make a game better, it simply makes it more complicated.

As I said, I'm not interested in a game that takes a long time to set up and learn the rules. You may be interested in such a game, but simply because I have different taste doesn't mean I'm only interested in playing with "pre-teen kids" and "grandpa," or that I'm somehow less of a gamer.

mikhaila wrote:Yeah, who the hell wants those 12 different scenarios that form a campaign?

One off games of candyland are where it's at!

Or Axis & Allies, Risk, Diplomacy, Chess, Stratego, Dominion, Go, Puerto Rico, or, if we're desperate, Warhammer 40k.

There are plenty of other games out there that compete for my time.

mikhaila wrote:Really? You guys are are complaining about MORE content?

Nope, I'm complaining about rules complexity and difficulty in getting the game to a table. I have plenty of tabletop-style games, I don't want another one.

Other people might not, good for them.

mikhaila wrote:I have 30 coming into my store. Half are already spoken for over the weeked. At this rate I'll be sold out and begging GW to let me have more copies by the time it ships out. Hopefully can get more so I can have a big stack to sell through Christmas.

Good for you, I hope you move as many of them as GW is willing to supply you with. They obviously appeal to some part of the market (although I wonder how much of it is due to Citadel-brand blinders), and you should take advantage of that as much as you can so your store remains successful.

But if I happen to wander into your store some day, don't push this game in my face and say "One off games of candyland are where it's at!" when I politely decline.

feth me, there are some tight bastards on here.

Ok 70 is pretty steep, but it aint that steep.

I reckon about 50-60 is a fair price. Are you fethers still living in the 60s or what? Its like listening to my nanna!

I mean, gak, a can of coke sets you back a quid. And a fething mars bar goes for 60p.

The Kiwis are getting ripped off no doubt, but the UK/US lot are just being cheap bastards. I really don't think it's enormously overpriced. My fething running shoes go for £85 and I think that's acceptable, its clearly within an acceptable boundary anyways.

Now, talk about a gak deal, have you blokes seen how much a bag of heroin goes for nowadays!? Its gone in an hour! Models are with you for life!

When I think ships I think armadas... I'm shocked, SHOCKED, that there were no generic models molded... As cool as the "last chancers in nautical form" is, I think any good captain would have some redshirts there... Even if it were as simple as a "generic ship x 12" sprue.
I think we can agree that the price range/compatability combo has put this product out of anone but the dedicated hobbiest with more money than concern, so why not give them something they can at least try to incoporate with their army... Even if there is no actual connection.
Poor planning, dumb execution, IMO... Like most GW things I'm left wondering, "why god, why? Why don't they just give the customers what they want?"

mattyrm wrote: feth me, there are some tight bastards on here.

Ok 70 is pretty steep, but it aint that steep.

I reckon about 50-60 is a fair price. Are you fethers still living in the 60s or what? Its like listening to my nanna!

I mean, gak, a can of coke sets you back a quid. And a fething mars bar goes for 60p.

The Kiwis are getting ripped off no doubt, but the UK/US lot are just being cheap bastards. I really don't think it's enormously overpriced. My fething running shoes go for £85 and I think that's acceptable, its clearly within an acceptable boundary anyways.

Now, talk about a gak deal, have you blokes seen how much a bag of heroin goes for nowadays!? Its gone in an hour! Models are with you for life!

Cheap is a pretty relative term though, perhaps you earn more than average, or for some reason have a high amount of disposable income, but other don't. I can afford it, it's just the fact that I'm going to prioritise my spending on hobby this month to other things, namely at games day, instead of buying something I'm not 100% interested in. Probably a fair few other people are in a similar situation, and the limited release also means most of those won't have a chance to pick it up perhaps if they'd put some money aside for a month or so. Just saying.

biccat wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:And they're fine and dandy if you want to play with your pre-teen kids and maybe even invite grandpa along. Dreadfleet is probably not aimed at casuals (the raw sprues kinda give it away) but at gamers who like a little depth (hah, nautical pun!) How many pages is Descent, or Horus Heresy, or Space Hulk? That's probably more in the right ballpark. Hoping for something as in-depth as Monsterpocalypse (40 pages raw combat rules) is probably a bit too much to hope for.

You can explain chess in a few sentences, yet it is probably the most tactical and challenging war-game that exists. In fact, Dreadfleet likely won't hold a candle to chess, tactically speaking. Having more pages in a rulebook doesn't make a game better, it simply makes it more complicated.

As I said, I'm not interested in a game that takes a long time to set up and learn the rules. You may be interested in such a game, but simply because I have different taste doesn't mean I'm only interested in playing with "pre-teen kids" and "grandpa," or that I'm somehow less of a gamer.

mikhaila wrote:Yeah, who the hell wants those 12 different scenarios that form a campaign?

One off games of candyland are where it's at!

Or Axis & Allies, Risk, Diplomacy, Chess, Stratego, Dominion, Go, Puerto Rico, or, if we're desperate, Warhammer 40k.

There are plenty of other games out there that compete for my time.

mikhaila wrote:Really? You guys are are complaining about MORE content?

Nope, I'm complaining about rules complexity and difficulty in getting the game to a table. I have plenty of tabletop-style games, I don't want another one.

Other people might not, good for them.

mikhaila wrote:I have 30 coming into my store. Half are already spoken for over the weeked. At this rate I'll be sold out and begging GW to let me have more copies by the time it ships out. Hopefully can get more so I can have a big stack to sell through Christmas.

Good for you, I hope you move as many of them as GW is willing to supply you with. They obviously appeal to some part of the market (although I wonder how much of it is due to Citadel-brand blinders), and you should take advantage of that as much as you can so your store remains successful.

But if I happen to wander into your store some day, don't push this game in my face and say "One off games of candyland are where it's at!" when I politely decline.

I'm sorry if your offended by my sarcastic comment. I just fail to see how you can be so upset about the complexity of the game when no one has seen it yet. I think a lot of the griping in this thread is just mindless.

Not wanting to buy the game? NP Don't like naval games? NP Griping about things you can't possibly know about? Totally confusing.

Nope, I'm complaining about rules complexity and difficulty in getting the game to a table. I have plenty of tabletop-style games, I don't want another one.

Problem solved. Don't buy it. No one is pushing it on you. No one cares if you buy it. And no ones going to stop you from playing the games you like.

So what reason do you have to complain? Quota of griping at GW not filled for the week?

I only play one wargame. I've no interest in any other. (I play 40k.)

filbert wrote:I think he has his sums wrong -

$220 New Zealand dollars converts to £115 GBP approx.

Yup, £115, or AU$175

So it's actually slightly cheaper in New Zealand than in Oz.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:but for me that ain't worth 70 smackers.

If it was $70 here I might consider it...however for US folks its $115. At 190 for AUS folks I bet they will have terrible sales there.

mikhaila wrote:I'm sorry if your offended by my sarcastic comment.

I was only offended to the extent you equated not wanting to buy a new game to intellectual capacity.

mikhaila wrote:I just fail to see how you can be so upset about the complexity of the game when no one has seen it yet. I think a lot of the griping in this thread is just mindless.

I simply expressed my opinion. My response in the last few pages was because someone attacked the validity of my position: that the rulebook is 96 pages. Even if it includes a lot of fluff, that's still a lot of pages of rules. In fact, I haven't seen many baseless attacks against the game. The complaints seem to be:
1) too lengthy for a board game
2) too expensive
3) limited run.

mikhaila wrote:Not wanting to buy the game? NP Don't like naval games? NP Griping about things you can't possibly know about? Totally confusing.

I'm not griping about the complexity, I expressed my assessment of the game based on the information provided. That's the reasoning behind why I don't want to buy the game.

Also, I don't think I should be expected to purchase a $115 game and read through a 96 page rulebook (and presumably get a few 3+ hour games under my belt) before I'm allowed to comment on whether the game looks like a valuable use of my time.

mikhaila wrote:Problem solved. Don't buy it. No one is pushing it on you. No one cares if you buy it.

This whole thread is asking "is anyone buying Dreadfleet." Presumably the OP cares if I buy the game.

Someone asked up-thread if cost was the only reason people aren't buying the game. That person obviously cares about my reasons for not wanting to buy the game. Perhaps he is on the fence and curious as to what other people think.

mikhaila wrote:So what reason do you have to complain? Quota of griping at GW not filled for the week?

Again, not complaining, merely providing my assessment of the game. Want it again? Probably not, but here it is:
1) this looks to be a one-off game, more board game (A&A) than tabletop game (like WHFB or 40k).

2) miniatures are supplied unpainted. Not a problem for tabletop games, a problem for board-games.

3) rules are long. Not a problem for tabletop games, a problem for board-games.

I actually do like the aesthetics of the miniatures and scenery, and I like the idea of the naval battlemat supplied with the game. But I probably would use them rarely (if ever), so it's not worth the $115 price tag, to me.

I was only offended to the extent you equated not wanting to buy a new game to intellectual capacity.

Not insulting your intelligence at all, I think you read too much into things. That just happened to be the first example of an easy to set up game that came to mind. Last week my twins were into chutes and ladders, this week we're back to candyland. Maybe I should have said Red Dragon Inn.)

And no matter how you try to guess on what's in those 96 pages, you're still making a guess and complaining about it. None of us know how easy it is to set up, complexity, or replay value.

2) miniatures are supplied unpainted. Not a problem for tabletop games, a problem for board-games.

Far be it from me to guess what boardgames you buy, but I'm having a hard time thinking of any that have painted miniatures past solid blue, solid green, solid black, etc.

Mad4Minis wrote:

biccat wrote:96 page rulebook

WTF? Thats absolutely crazy.

It's probably about six pages of actual rules, 20 pages of special rules for the 20 ships, and the rest is fluff and painting guides.

biccat wrote:I simply expressed my opinion. My response in the last few pages was because someone attacked the validity of my position: that the rulebook is 96 pages. Even if it includes a lot of fluff, that's still a lot of pages of rules.

The thing is, without having seen the rulebook there is absolutely no way to know that. For all anyone knows it could be 5 pages of rules, 10 pages of pretty pictures and a novella.

It's a small format book. Fill up half of the book with artwork, scenarios and fluff pieces, and you're left with around 50 pages. Use a large font and lots of diagrams to make it easy to follow, and you have 25 pages of rules. Still potentially complex for a boardgame, but not overly so for a stand-alone wargame.

But it's all guesswork. We won't have any way of judging how complicated the rules are until we actually see the rules.

mikhaila wrote:Not insulting your intelligence at all, I think you read too much into things. That just happened to be the first example of an easy to set up game that came to mind. Last week my twins were into chutes and ladders, this week we're back to candyland. Maybe I should have said Red Dragon Inn.)

Yes, obviously chutes and ladders is a step up from candyland. And you're not repeating the same implied insult at all.

How about chess? That's a very easy game to set up (as long as you can remember whether the knights go inside the bishops or not).

mikhaila wrote:And no matter how you try to guess on what's in those 96 pages, you're still making a guess and complaining about it. None of us know how easy it is to set up, complexity, or replay value.

You're right. But I'm not willing to make the investment of time and money simply to find out whether the game is needlessly complicated or not. I could just as easily have said that I'm not buying it because of the box art, because I'll bet that box art has a much higher impact on sales than word of mouth.

mikhaila wrote:Far be it from me to guess what boardgames you buy, but I'm having a hard time thinking of any that have painted miniatures past solid blue, solid green, solid black, etc.

There needs to be an easy way to distinguish models from one player to the next. Solid blue/green/black/red works remarkably well. Highly-detailed grey plastic does not.

In fact, isn't this one of the standard rationale's that's pushed in the "to paint or not to paint" threads?

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite.asp?eidm=167

Like the earlier Doom boardgame it has colour plastic, unpainted models. Detailed painting doesn't matter for identification as each player controls only one figure.

Lots of owners do paint their models for this type of game, though, owing to aesthetic considerations.

mikhaila wrote:
Far be it from me to guess what boardgames you buy, but I'm having a hard time thinking of any that have painted miniatures past solid blue, solid green, solid black, etc.

Heroscape comes to mind. I seem to recall there were a couple Marvel and Transformers games that came with painted pieces. That's just with about 10-15 seconds of thought.

biccat wrote:

mikhaila wrote:Not insulting your intelligence at all, I think you read too much into things. That just happened to be the first example of an easy to set up game that came to mind. Last week my twins were into chutes and ladders, this week we're back to candyland. Maybe I should have said Red Dragon Inn.)

Yes, obviously chutes and ladders is a step up from candyland. And you're not repeating the same implied insult at all.

No, actually, I'm not. You want to take it that way, go right ahead.

With 5 year old twin girls, my gaming is often reduced to Candyland and Chutes and Ladders. Checkers was ok for a weekend, and then they wanted to go visit candyland again. I'm so hoping my wife lets me skip to kids of Cataan soon.

RandomSauce19 wrote:What about you guys?

Not feeling it, not at that price point. I'd have considered it at $50-60. Will probably get this instead, which I'll likely enjoy more, plugs into a pre-existing game I already own if I fancy that, not feel like I have to paint up, and costs half as much.

It looks like a neat game, don't get me wrong, and the minis look very nice. It's just too much money for me, $115 would be too much for most any board game unless I was dying for it.

I'm with ouze WRT his last remark. It looks decent enough, but I can also grab two of the new-sculpt Uncharted Seas starters that have just gone up for preorder(each with mini rulebook and mini fluff primer for faction involved) for the $115 price point(3 if i get 3 different unsailed fleets, since the pewter sails drive their price up).

Basically, if a buddy showed up and asked to play Dreadfleet I wouldn't turn them down, but if I'm buying I'm going to buy into an existing fantasy naval game.

Breotan wrote:This game might have gone over better had GW done it back when the PotC movies were popular.

notprop wrote:If you follow that logic then you will have to wait until they make the next D&D film to get a Warhammer Quest.

Respectfully, that's not a reasonable analogy. The last Dungeons & Dragons movie was a critical & box office failure which took in $33 million worldwide on a budget of $35 million. Inexplicably, a sequel was produced for $12 million which took in $900,000 worldwide.

The POTC series has taken in nearly 4 billion dollars.

The only similarity between these franchises is that they are all films you can watch. Financially, one is essentially a license to print money, and the other is a cash bonfire for which every $20 bill you toss onto it nets you $1.60 in return.

Attempting to ride the coattails of the POTC movies for a game like this would have been good business.

Am seeing a fair bit about overpricing and value

It is may not be bad value, but it is still overpriced for a one trick pony board game.

That demand /supply chart is pointless as GW never price products based on such things
They use a spinning wheel to price them:
Lots
even more
How do we even get away with it excess
The suckers still buy if we add another 20% on excessive
and such like

Round and round and round she goes...

A classic S/D chart won't apply to a product with limited supply.

mattyrm wrote:
The Kiwis are getting ripped off no doubt, but the UK/US lot are just being cheap bastards. I really don't think it's enormously overpriced. My fething running shoes go for £85 and I think that's acceptable, its clearly within an acceptable boundary anyways.

Try college student paying out of pocket and you'll be a lot closer to the mark, in my case. You have $115 to just drop on something? $130 for shoes? I think I need to change my major to get wherever in life that you are. I'll be there one day...I think. -sigh-

I won't be buying Dreadfleet. That kind of price is too much for an untried game when I'm also in the middle of buying a flat at the same time. I'll save my meagre gaming budget for more Warmachine or Malifaux

No. I actually like the models (I think the exaggeration gives them a nice, cartoony flavor), but I'm not a huge boardgame fan. And the price is scary when I'm still trying to build my first army.

The value of the components looks high (probably worth £70, if the game's any good), but I wouldn't buy for the components alone, because I (like most people here I suspect) have more than enough unfinished painting projects to occupy me for some years yet.

The quality of, complexity of, and duration of the game is a complete unknown, so I can't reasonably consider buying it for the game alone either. I do love boardgames, and board wargames, but there are loads of others I'm really keen to buy, that I *know* are good, and my boardgame shelves are looking pretty full already, too.

I decided on the last price rise that I wouldn't be buying any more 40K stuff from GW, or starting WH. I will happily buy a boardgame from them if convinced it's worthwhile, but I'm not convinced this one is, for me. I'd like to play it, sometime, to find out, and I will certainly look out for reviews. Unfortunately I probably won't get a chance to play it. Even the frothiest of GW fans near me seem to be saying "Oooh, I'd really love to buy it, but can't afford to" (whereas for Space Hulk, a lot of people who usually bashed GW were saying "I can't really afford it but I have to buy that game anyway").

How much was Space Hulk -- £60? I can't remember now.

Kilkrazy wrote:How much was Space Hulk -- £60? I can't remember now.

In the US, it was $90 from the Warstore, which is where I got mine.

I will order a copy and I will get it for Christmas.

Hmm, more complaints about price. So, £35 per player is too much, despite it including the rules, counters, gaming table, terrain, and both factions' miniatures. Hey, if you don't like it, you don't like it, fair enough. But no games company sells cheaper than that. None. My Dystopian Wars entry cost was higher than that, and that's the cheapest game I've gotten into. Complaints about the price tag are daft, especially compared to the costs of the rest of GW products.

Personally, I couldn't give a tinker's cuss about the game. I'm going to get me a copy for the models. I like those crazy ships, and have plans for modding Uncharted Seas into the Warhammer World. Being familiar with the basics of the rule-set from DW contributes a lot to that decision.

htj wrote: So, £35 per player is too much, ...

Most people don't go shares in boardgames. It's not £35 per player. It's £70 for the game.

Complaints about the price tag are daft, especially compared to the costs of the rest of GW products.

Complaints about the price are no less valid than complaints about any other aspect of the game. Everybody has their own threshold as to how much they would be prepared to play. If the product under discussion is above that threshold, pointing that out is simply a natural part of the discussion.

insaniak wrote:Most people don't go shares in boardgames. It's not £35 per player. It's £70 for the game.

Yes, I was oversimplifying, it's fair to say. Point taken. But you're still looking at an effective £35 per army price tag, discounting cost of rules and mat and so forth.

It's not a boardgame, though.

Complaints about the price are no less valid than complaints about any other aspect of the game. Everybody has their own threshold as to how much they would be prepared to play. If the product under discussion is above that threshold, pointing that out is simply a natural part of the discussion.

I see what's being said here, but I can't get along with it. For cost-product balance it's probably the cheapest thing GW have produced in years. Considering how much one will spend on an army, it doesn't seem that outrageous to me. At worst it's cutting into the process of building your army only a little, no? Still, it does make one wonder - if they rules and miniatures were released separately and lower individual costs, would those who stop at the price tag be more likely to pick it up?

htj wrote:Hmm, more complaints about price. So, £35 per player is too much, despite it including the rules, counters, gaming table, terrain, and both factions' miniatures. Hey, if you don't like it, you don't like it, fair enough. But no games company sells cheaper than that. None. My Dystopian Wars entry cost was higher than that, and that's the cheapest game I've gotten into. Complaints about the price tag are daft, especially compared to the costs of the rest of GW products.

The thing is, you're making an apples\oranges comparison. You're not buying into a wargaming system here, it's just a stand alone board game no different then Chutes & Ladders or Mousetrap. I'm not saying it's overpriced, simply it costs more then I would spend for any product in that category. I wouldn't buy a super fancy copy of Monopoly if it was more then $60 either, no matter how nice it was, and I love Monopoly. I'm sure many people will snap it up as a bargain, I'm simply not one of them.

htj wrote:Personally, I couldn't give a tinker's cuss about the game. I'm going to get me a copy for the models. I like those crazy ships, and have plans for modding Uncharted Seas into the Warhammer World. Being familiar with the basics of the rule-set from DW contributes a lot to that decision.

The ships really are terrific looking. The whole game looks pretty neat.

Define boardgame please.

Now define miniatures game.

Dread Fleet plays on a 5ft by 3.5 ft mat that does not have zones/squares/hexes/spaces to control/measure movement. It could be played on any surface, but obviously a sea mat of some type is appropriate.

I just can't see that being called a boardgame. Every boardgame my limited mind can think of is played on some board/surface with spaces/zones/squares/hexes or something that are used for movement and zones of control for combat etc....

htj wrote:For cost-product balance it's probably the cheapest thing GW have produced in years.

That doesn't change how much someone is prepared to spend for a stand-alone game.

Being value for money and being an attractive purchase aren't always the same thing.

Still, it does make one wonder - if they rules and miniatures were released separately and lower individual costs, would those who stop at the price tag be more likely to pick it up?

Probably not. If you need the lot to play the game anyway, selling everything separately just makes buying the game more difficult.

Decent previews might change some opinions. Although speaking purely for myself, the Australian price tag would put me off buying it regardless of how good a game it actually turns out to be.

It is listed under Gaming on the GW website
Not Specialist Games with Necromunda, Mordheim et al

Must be a mutant board game that was cast out and cut off its tail to spite its arse

Luco wrote:

Try college student paying out of pocket and you'll be a lot closer to the mark, in my case. You have $115 to just drop on something? $130 for shoes? I think I need to change my major to get wherever in life that you are. I'll be there one day...I think. -sigh-

Good news Luco! You dont need a college degree to join the Royal Marines, merely a strong chin, iron will, and a willingness to stab strangers in the face on the queens orders.

Sign up today! /salute

Ouze wrote:The thing is, you're making an apples\oranges comparison. You're not buying into a wargaming system here, it's just a stand alone board game no different then Chutes & Ladders or Mousetrap. I'm not saying it's overpriced, simply it costs more then I would spend for any product in that category. I wouldn't buy a super fancy copy of Monopoly if it was more then $60 either, no matter how nice it was, and I love Monopoly. I'm sure many people will snap it up as a bargain, I'm simply not one of them.

I really don't see this as being a board game any more than, say, Warmachine. But then I suppose we're all just speculating until we see the rules proper. I shouldn't really put forward that argument, though, as I'm buying it for the miniatures. I'm a sucker for pretty miniatures.

I love Monopoly too! I picked up a classic set with wooden houses from, near as we can estimate, the 1950s-ish? No board, but all the pieces, £5 at a charity shop. I was happy as the proverbial Larry. But I digress.

insaniak wrote:Being value for money and being an attractive purchase aren't always the same thing.

True, true. It's more of a subjective thing than my (overly black and white, to be fair) original post implied. I was more criticising the 'it's too expensive for what it is' stance than the 'it's too pricey for me to want it' stance.

Decent previews might change some opinions. Although speaking purely for myself, the Australian price tag would put me off buying it regardless of how good a game it actually turns out to be.

Now that price difference, I feel, is just unfair. Diminished sales in Oz is what GW deserves for the way they mark things up over there.

Just my 2 cents but i am all for buying "Dread Fleet". Man O' War was my first GW game and i simply loved it. I ran Man O' War thru my old gaming group called "The Adventurer's Club" at a few local conventions and we always had a blast playing!!!!

Hopefully "Dread Fleet" will capture some of the joy (and none of the cheese) of Man O' War. Plus the pieces do look awesome!

I checked out the article they put up today. Interesting bit, in that they went through a turn and it gave me a good idea of how the game plays. Alternating ship activation, which I like better than ygig. In boarding actions you first do a captains duel, and then the crew fight. Different orders allowed more movement, repairs, etc. Ship speed per turn, and number of inches needed between 45 degree turns is similar to other naval games I've played.

Suitably different to Man O War as well.

Agree on the activation thing. Makes more sense the fewer models are on the board, and opens up quite a bit of tactical subtlety (activate one ship to bait another into a bad situation etc).

htj wrote:For cost-product balance it's probably the cheapest thing GW have produced in years.

Cheapest as in for total buy-in? Probably.

But the best value GW has put out in years has to be Assault on Black Reach, and Island of Blood. Both of those box sets are examples of how to rope in potential buyers.

Kilkrazy wrote:How much was Space Hulk -- £60? I can't remember now.

Close, it was £58.50 from GW.

Finally actually got the Mrs to order mine tonight.

The sample turn on the GW site looks like the rules should be okay as well, but we shall see.

Ah well if Mrs Notprop is buying you may put me down for one please.

I cant see buying this to have the sea matt. thats a huge waste of money. I also cant see buying this just for some sea figures that have the GW brand name. If you want good sea figs, look elsewhere. There are plenty of makers of fine, cheaper, higher quality ship models than GW. If you want a fun board game, i really doubt that this will rank when compared with the best board games out there for dynamic play and tactical complexity. If you want that you are better off buying something like settlers of catan or dominion. They are also about a third of the price.
But... if you are a hugely fixated with brand loyalty to the point where you only eat lucky charms, wear levis pants and izod shirts, you willl only ever drive a Ford. If the amount you would pay to have brand name you want is limitless and if GW is your chosen brand name for games. this is the game for you.
Otherwise i would suggest going to boardgamegeek.com and looking around at all the other options that there are to choose from when it comes to board games.

sennacherib wrote:I cant see buying this to have the sea matt. thats a huge waste of money. I also cant see buying this just for some sea figures that have the GW brand name. If you want good sea figs, look elsewhere. There are plenty of makers of fine, cheaper, higher quality ship models than GW. If you want a fun board game, i really doubt that this will rank when compared with the best board games out there for dynamic play and tactical complexity. If you want that you are better off buying something like settlers of catan or dominion. They are also about a third of the price.
But... if you are a hugely fixated with brand loyalty to the point where you only eat lucky charms, wear levis pants and izod shirts, you willl only ever drive a Ford. If the amount you would pay to have brand name you want is limitless and if GW is your chosen brand name for games. this is the game for you.
Otherwise i would suggest going to boardgamegeek.com and looking around at all the other options that there are to choose from when it comes to board games.

Define board game.

Every single board game I can think of includes a board/playing surface with squares/hexes/spaces/zones or some other drawn on or marked mechanism to control movement and any interaction between game pieces.

This game does not have that. In my mind that makes it a table top miniatures game.

I think this game has a lot going for it besides to 'brand loyal' folks. Very nice components, similar ones from other companies are at least as expensive (check sea mats and islands for example).

I am NOT a GW fan boy. Check my gallery, most are non-GW figures and the Marines and Tyranids I have I use with other rule systems. I haven't played 40k since I played the scenarios that came with the BFM set I bought. I have bought and played the new edition of Space Hulk. That was my last GW purchase.

I see this as a cool Game in a Box for tactical fantasy naval engagements. I like it for that and the nice components so have pre-ordered it. But I am anything but a 'brand loyal' person like you describe.

I think this game has a lot going for it besides to 'brand loyal'

I know what you mean and apologies for taking this out of context.
But it just made me think that very likely the sales will go to GW fans with very few if any going to people unfamiliar with the brand or wargaming.

If the game had been made more widely available rather than limited edition it may have helped recruit new players to the GW systems.
Apologies if this point has already been raised, but have not seen it mentioned.

I would love to buy it, but that would mean forfeiting buying a lot of other warhammer.
It's just so damn expensive!

No for me for plenty of reasons. First off, I'm primarily a scifi player and have only had an interest in certain units or figs from fantasy lines outside of D&D figs. Secondly, I'm not interested in giving GW much more of my money anyways with their fiasco earlier this year.

Lastly, I don't think it's a good deal overall. Space Hulk had many more things going for it as a splash release... it was a reissue of a game that has cult status among old time 40k fans which was unavailable for years, it had very nice minis that were completely usable in normal 40k games with some minor base conversions, and it was a steal $$$ wise compared to buying vanilla versions of the same figs (two squads of terminators plus two boxes of genestealers is easily more $$ than the cost of space hulk box at the time). Sure the figs were monopose (but cool poses) and the termies were Blood Angel branded but the simple monetary value was easily there.

A sea mat costs 37 from Monday Knight and is not as nice.

Smaller islands cost 30 a set from GF9

That is alread 67 out of 115. Say the ships are worth 5 each, that would be 117. Add the cards, rules, dice...

I'm guessing the ships would be worth more than 5 each too. An imperial cruiser for Uncharted seas for example is almost 10 bucks...

CptJake wrote:A sea mat costs 37 from Monday Knight and is not as nice.

Smaller islands cost 30 a set from GF9

That is alread 67 out of 115. Say the ships are worth 5 each, that would be 117. Add the cards, rules, dice...

I'm guessing the ships would be worth more than 5 each too. An imperial cruiser for Uncharted seas for example is almost 10 bucks...

Hmmm. Wonder if folks will split any of these on ebay. It's not as easy a thing to do as spulk, less need for ships than terminators in other games. But it makes me wonder about expanding the game by using ships from more than one set. Maybe add other ships from a similar sized range.

I may just keep two sets for myself.

Nope, too expensive for me to even consider aborting my "buy no more GW stuff" policy. Grey Knights on the other hand is looking more and more tempting...

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Ah well if Mrs Notprop is buying you may put me down for one please.

Not until you get off that damn computer and finish your chores young man!

lol
You don't know just how valid that is!
Except for the young man part

Aw, c'mon Chibi.

We all know you're a child at heart.

And in mind.

Yeah it is all too true
I don't mind the child at heart, it is the second child in the head that is of concern.

Was in my Local GW two days ago and the manager was more or less trying to convince me to buy this game. I thought be polite let him fire out his pre rehearsed spiel, when i said "oh its like Man O war back in the day" he looked at me blankly....damn i felt old. Then he told me the price and i was like nah its ok mate GOW3 came out today.

insaniak wrote:Being value for money and being an attractive purchase aren't always the same thing.

I think that's well said.
I'm in the to expensive category though. I don't think it's adequate value for the money. But I have always thought that stand alone games over 50$ are always a tough sell.

It's an okay concept. I can't see myself spending that much money on something I probably won't play. Plus the Orcs and Goblins are not represented, they are the most pirate like IMO.

mattyrm wrote:

Luco wrote:

Try college student paying out of pocket and you'll be a lot closer to the mark, in my case. You have $115 to just drop on something? $130 for shoes? I think I need to change my major to get wherever in life that you are. I'll be there one day...I think. -sigh-

Good news Luco! You dont need a college degree to join the Royal Marines, merely a strong chin, iron will, and a willingness to stab strangers in the face on the queens orders.

Sign up today! /salute

Looks like I need to get in shape and hop across the pond.

I was looking forward to something a little better than an attempt at rehashing Man-o-War. I prefer the look of 'Uncharted Seas' for a naval battle game, at least you can choose your ships instead of CW doing it for you.

Blarglord wrote:Plus the Orcs and Goblins are not represented, they are the most pirate like IMO.

More than Dark Elves, which are also absent?

I have already ordered. I have wasted WAY more money on things potentially dumber than this. At least I will have something to show for it at the end of the day....

I thought about it one more time and then I bought earth reborn for $60 instead.

I got a (subscribed) GW letter today saying that Dreadfleet is almost sold out. They want me to order it asap. Many thanks, GW, for this message. But I leave it to the other to buy it.

It won't actually be "sold out", there will just be dozens of copies sitting on eBay with $300 "Buy It Now" auctions.

Gosh this makes things interesting!
Will they sell out before WD hits the shelves?
Will Dread Fleet still be available 3 weeks after that when subscribers get their copy of the DF edition of WD?

As much as I love naval warfare, I'm afraid I can't justify paying so much for a game I'll likely never play or see anyone playing.

I'm all for re-releasing Battlefleet Gothic, though. Orbital/Space warfare is something I'd love to play, particularly if there was a way to do boarding actions. Those are always fun.

BFG is available as a download. It wouldn't cost anything to look at the rules.

The ships are available from Specialist Games and Forge World.

Sidstyler wrote:

Blarglord wrote:Plus the Orcs and Goblins are not represented, they are the most pirate like IMO.

More than Dark Elves, which are also absent?

The Dark Elf ommission is a bit odd, though I suppose it could be say they're less likely to cooperate with other races, due to generally rocking it around in their own small fleet.

What I'm speculating (and wildly so) is that should this be a success, then a sort of sequel game could be seen at some point. Same rules, different ships, different map, different terrain. Would certainly be one way to do it, and opens it up for the other races (Dark Elves, Brets, Chaos, possibly even Ind/Nippon/Cathay(!) Orc, and erm...yeah, I think that's it!) to get ships in there. To me this is the most sensible way to expand it, as those who missed out first time around also get a self contained game. Sure, those with a Dreadfleet already are paying for extra rules they won't necessarily use (beyond the new ships) but that can always go on Ebay.

Dreadfleet would be an interesting way of testing the waters (hah!) for a "proper" naval wargame, including gauging our reactions to a wide variety of ship designs and factions. With this in mind, the omission of Dark Elves, Orcs and Chaos could simply be because they're already set on including those in the eventual wargame, but are undecided on Khemri, Araby, Dwarfs, Chaos Dwarfs, the various varieties of undead... and want to see what we think. In GW's own special way, by making us pay for being part of their market research.

Of course this is 99.99% too good to be true.

wuestenfux wrote:I got a (subscribed) GW letter today saying that Dreadfleet is almost sold out. They want me to order it asap. Many thanks, GW, for this message. But I leave it to the other to buy it.

Sir, that was noble of you.

Lots of flak has been directed at GW about the whole "limited print run" thing. But I think it's clever. If they just release it with no fanfare, then many people would probably go "hmm, looks nice, maybe I will buy it some day" and then it would be forgotten and would die slow death on the gaming shop shelves like myriad of other games. But when it's LIMITED, many of those people go "omg, if I want it, I have to get it now. One Dreadfleet here!". I also think that it's actually better in building the playerbase. After all, few people want to buy a game which nobody else plays or talks about. Now, Dreadfleet is nearly guaranteed to have at least some sort of playerbase immediately.

I'm also pretty sure that the print run is calculated to bring them in some sort of profit, why would they bother otherwise. Probably not huge money, esp. as most buyers are probably long-term fans who would just use their money on other GW products instead.

Ordered mine today

If the rules are good enough will be put together some rules for my Uncharted Seas fleets - if not I'll do the opposite

Better ideas:

1. Re-release a limited edition of any of the following;

Warhammer Quest/Heroquest
Adeptus Titanicus
Battlefleet Gothic
Gorkamorka and/or a 40k version of Dark Future
Necromunda

2. Revamp and re-release permanent versions of

Blood Bowl
Warhammer Quest/Heroquest (esp. if includng models useful in WFB)
Necromunda (esp. if including models useful in 40k)
(Either Quest or Necro could be a useful way or having "another" starter box for WFB or W40K

3. Release an expansion for Space Hulk. (Although, the audience size is automatically reduced by that having been limited too)

4. Boil my head in vinegar.

The only good thing to say about this is that PERHAPS it is a sign they are letting designers run their pet projects again, instead of focusing purely on what they perceive as customer-wants.

They are running low on stock....I say no more...

Optio wrote:They are running low on stock....I say no more...

Well, we're told they are at any rate!

Optio wrote:They are running low on stock....I say no more...

Suuuuure they are.

If you believe that I also have a really affordable piece real estate on the moon that you might be interested in buying.

Will not be buying, do to the ridiculous cost in my opinion.

If they are nearly sold out already, then they didn't make enough.

People seem to be confusing 'how much money you have' and 'how much you feel something is worth'.

I could afford to buy a dozen Dreadfleets right now without any re-budgeting, but I'd be left with twelve overpriced boxes containing a game that's likely to, snigger, sink without trace shortly after.

£70 is a crazy amount for ten random ships and a new limited edition tabletop game which, by definition, you can't expand on later on. I'd have paid £30 for it, at most.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to retire to the parlour and throw bundles of notes into the fireplace while wearing a top hat. Pip pip.

£30 might be pushing it. Sure, it's a nice price, but is it too nice for a full game? I'd most likely do it at £50, or maybe even £60 (although with £60, you're pushing Starter Set-level prices, which include a full game themselves on top of many more models than DF - AoBR and IoB are great examples of this, IoB probably moreso than AoBR in my opinion).

£70 is too much for something that hasn't garnered a reasonable rate of interest in my area, nor is something any of my friends are interested in playing; I just can't justify throwing that much money at it under these circumstances. At least with 40k and WHFB, there's more than enough variety to keep things fun, and more than enough people willing to play them.

lord_blackfang wrote:Dreadfleet would be an interesting way of testing the waters (hah!) for a "proper" naval wargame...

They already had a proper naval game, that died off, and a proper space naval game, that they don't properly support.

Arclite wrote:As much as I love naval warfare, I'm afraid I can't justify paying so much for a game I'll likely never play or see anyone playing.

I'm all for re-releasing Battlefleet Gothic, though. Orbital/Space warfare is something I'd love to play, particularly if there was a way to do boarding actions. Those are always fun.

There is a game with boarding actions, so far to take over the ship as well. Can't say if you can use the ship afterwards. Haven't gotten to try that yet, but its something you CAN do. Its called firestorm armada and its by spartan games. Good game, straight foward and great price. You can even create your own LEGAL ships to play with. Check em out.

www.spartangames.co.uk

You might even see a few models GW have clearly been inspired by.

Oh, I also said no, mainly as GW has priced me out of thier products and mostly are just full of gak. But also like others have said, its a one off release, plus one ship a race and overly fussy.

Kilkrazy wrote:BFG is available as a download. It wouldn't cost anything to look at the rules.

The ships are available from Specialist Games and Forge World.

On a related note, can anyone tell me why the BFG models are so expensive? Were they always so?

I wish this had been cheaper. I had been on the fence on whether to get this all week, because I liked how everything looked. But a 190 price point for Aus gamers?

I just couldnt justify it immediately at that price. If it had been cheaper it would have been an instant buy from me. It doesnt matter now the preorder dates gone and i dont think theyll be taking any more orders

Although I'm confused, why are there no Dark Elves? Don't they go roaming around on the seas in their Black Arks taking slaves? Seems like a perfect match for this type of thing

Las wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:BFG is available as a download. It wouldn't cost anything to look at the rules.

The ships are available from Specialist Games and Forge World.

On a related note, can anyone tell me why the BFG models are so expensive? Were they always so?

When the game first came out, it came supplied with 2 fleets (loyalist and traitor), IIRC 4 capital ships for each side. You could buy blisters of the smaller escort ships for about 6 or 7GBP, 3 ships in each. I think the boxset was 40GBP when it first came out, but then subsequently went up to 50. If you split the boxset with a friend and took chaos or imperial each, theoretically you were probably talking less than 40 or 50GBP for a reasonably sized fleet with maybe one battleship, the contents of the box and some escorts. So, a pretty reasonably priced wargame by current standards. Obviously you didn't need much in the way of terrain either, although styrofoam asteroids and the like were common - and chucking some mat-black paint on a bit of 6x4 wood and flicking some white paint with a toothbrush and you were ready to go

In my own experience you tended to see mostly Chaos or Imperial fleets because of the boxset, orks which were great for scratch builders, and then later Eldar which were really dirty in the rules and would make a mess of most people if they were played properly, and probably in retrospect were a little overpowered.

It was a damn fine system, albeit a little long-winded sometimes (when you ended up with just a couple of damaged ships circling each other trying to get a good firing range), but definitely deserving of a higher status than being reduced to a tiny corner of the website and the overpriced minis (both GWs and on ebay) it has now

Mate of mine has ordered it. I'll probably end up playing it once or twice.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:If they are nearly sold out already, then they didn't make enough.

Why? They make a good profit. No warehousing costs. They move on to the next project. My store, and many others, have product to sell and the game is still available, just not from GW. Chances are my stock moves much quicker than normal, and I sell out and get to move on to the next project.

TBH I took them at their word and assumed it was a limited edtion, rather than the 65000 copies I have heard reported today.
That sounds more like a normal production run

In which case a few more thousand would make more profit. More units produced spreads the fixed costs per unit
The boxes wouldn't be in the warehouse very long if it is as big a hit as they say.

and if we can take them at their word.