How'd you do?

In the Houston area, a 15 year old won with triple storm raven-triple dread blood angels. He chose GK as his army.

Had some great games at Bud's Place, Leeds, AL. I took a dual Land Raider Mephiston list and fared fairly well, until my third round:

Round 1, scored a major victory +3 against Coteaz + Henchmen GK.

Round 2, scored a Draw +2 against a Draigo and Coteaz + Paladin and Psyback heavy GK.

Then, had a tough 3rd game. Played against Eldar - 6 Wave Serpents, 6 Dire avenger units. Then other randoms, like War Walkers, Fire Dragons, Banshees, Eldrad, etc. First turn I Sieze the Inititiave and proceed to destroy 2 Scatter Laser Warwalkers, destroyed a Fire Dragon Wave Serpent and Immobilized one Avenger wave serpent. Great start.

Then, he starts knocking out my Razorbacks with his scatter lasers. It's okay, I think, because if it becomes Table Quarters, I have two easily. If it becomes Terrain pieces, I am in the area where I can hold a few and if it is Kill Points, I already have a good lead. By turn 3, I had Mephiston in assault with his other unit of Warwalkers, had a unit of Fire Dragons broken and running and had a bunch of skimmers with 5-man Avenger units racing around. Then, turn 3 rolls up and guess what we get? Terrain pieces. Now, be aware that this board had 9 terrain pieces total - 2 blocked LOS, 2 were Area, and the other 5 were basic hills that stood next to each other.

All he had to do was park 1 Wave Serpent in the middle of 3 hills and capture 3 objectives while my footslogging troops tried to make their way over into other pieces of terrain. Then, he'd zoom over, contest both of those pieces with a single Wave Serpent. This happened to where he had all 9 pieces either contested or controlled. It did not end well.

So, my second round opponent went on to win First, my third round opponent went on to win Second and I was left with a missing Death Company model and two broken storm bolters that now need to be re-glued.





First: Mike Twitchell (Draigo GK)
Second: Rob Blackwell (Eldar)
Third: . . .? (GK again, I think)

Skirmish Games in Deer Park Texas. No last names.

1st Zack BA the 15 year old guy
2nd Jeremy GK
3 Douglas BA

San Antino , Tx was

1st: black Templars (me)
2nd: grey knights
3rd: grey knights

We had 11 massacres first round out of 26 people.

Grey knights are getting old really fast! Just to stomp on your all's grey knight and marine parade.

Omaha, NE

1st: IG (me)
2nd: GK
3rd: BA

There were like 5 or so grey knight players out of 20. A real brutal outing. I will post battle reports later.

Had to play leaf blower guard twice!!
full points round 1 against IG
minor loss with 2 bonus points round 2 against IG
Full points round 3 against CSM

So.Cal was

1st Adam Gati- eldar
2nd Dave Fey- Black Templar
3rd Kieth- Orks
4th (Me)- Orks

First time to the semis out of three years and I feel pretty good about fourth out of 40.

Springfield IL

1st. Henchmen Gk with 2 storm ravens
2nd. Mech space wolves with Njal and thunderwolves (me)
3rd. Coteaz+Draigo gk with 5 dreads

8 or 9 out of 20 players brought gk

Grimgob wrote:Had to play leaf blower guard twice!!
full points round 1 against IG
minor loss with 2 bonus points round 2 against IG
Full points round 3 against CSM

So.Cal was

1st Adam Gati- eldar
2nd Dave Fey- Black Templar
3rd Kieth- Orks
4th (Me)- Orks

First time to the semis out of three years and I feel pretty good about fourth out of 40.

How was the tie breaker decided between 1st and 2nd who both had 69 battle points?

Go Eldar!!!! They are clearly far superior to all, hehe. now I hope that GW doesn't think because I got first with them that they don't need a codex update =(. I'm so glad I didn't end up playing your orks Levi (grimgob), we always seem to face off in our tournaments. IG is tough for everyone =(.

Incase anyone is interested, my list was:

Eldrad; Maugen Ra (thank's Reece for the idea to take Maugen!); 2X5 fire dragons with exarch/crackshot/firepike in wave serpents; 8 harlequins with kisses/shadowseer; 10 Wraithguard with enhance; 3X5 Dire Avengers in 2 wave serpents (3rd went in falcon); 2X3 guardian jetbikes; 1 falcon with scatter laser/holofields and starengines; 2XWraithlords with EML/BL.

Only reason I won my first game against IG was because the falcon made it to his deployment zone with my messenger turn 1 thanks to star engines (best 15 points evar!).

Second game was against Ragnar/greyhunter spam list which was pretty balanced. A wraithguard/harlequin and double wraithlord charge broke the army in middle and I got 6 scoring units to his 0.

Third game was against a killer deathwing army that I just killed enough scoring units and rolled table quarters so his 3 scoring units to my 6 wasn't enough to prevent the massacre.

Woot! I chose Grey Knights.

mortetvie wrote:
Woot! I chose Grey Knights.

I played in minneapolis, mn at legion games
there were 42 participants, including people from ND,SD,MN,IA,WI,CANADA

i took first with Dark eldar

second and third went to grey knights

i picked guard

chewielight wrote:Skirmish Games in Deer Park Texas. No last names.

1st Zack BA the 15 year old guy
2nd Jeremy GK
3 Douglas BA

I don't know how many semis there are in Texas but I'm pretty sure that was my friend Jeremy playing my old GKs with a list based on my original paladin build. Which is pretty lulz.

Well done everyone!

@mortetvie
Maugan ra is a boss! Glad he worked for you. The firedragon exarch woth crack shot and firepike does work! I never play without him.

@darkwynn
Haha, I seem to remember you and I talking black tempkars and me saying they were now top tier and you saying they weren't ;-)
Glad to see you do well!

@levi
Tough break, brohym. You almost got it.

Norcal results:
1st: bjorn wolves (me)
2nd: leman russ ig
3rd: battlewagon orks

I had three great games, all fun and tough. Grey knights, horde orks (crazy bad match up for mission 2) and eldar.

Man, all these "subpar" armies winning when played by top players. What ever will the internet do?

Congratz everyone, see you at the finals!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and I had 70 points if anyone cares.

It's not so much that armies are subpar as that they only have 1-2 competitive builds and require a deal of luck + a good general.

Amaya wrote:It's not so much that armies are subpar as that they only have 1-2 competitive builds and require a deal of luck + a good general.

The deal of luck part is what makes it subpar - if you can't win without above average dice rolls, chances are the army is subpar.

Tualatin Oregon. 31 players showed up, a 32nd player played for the bye matches, just to help fill in for points for those participating.

7 people brought Grey Knights
5 Space Wolves
4 or 5 Dark Eldar
3 Eldar
3 Orks
Chaos Daemons
Blood Angels
Dark Angels, etc etc etc.

1st: IG
2nd: Witch Hunters
3rd: Dark Angels

I personally got stomped on, and gave a massacre to every opponent. I finished dead last. However, I did not get the least number of victory points. Ah well, game 2 was a total blast, and that mayhem alone was worth the trip.

Nightwatch wrote:

Amaya wrote:It's not so much that armies are subpar as that they only have 1-2 competitive builds and require a deal of luck + a good general.

The deal of luck part is what makes it subpar - if you can't win without above average dice rolls, chances are the army is subpar.

I don't think there are only 1-2 builds, there are quite a large variety actually (with Eldar anyway) and while every army needs some sort of luck I guess, you should not need to rely on dice to win. So yeah =P.

I usually have way below average rolling-I hope for average and still place routinely with random Eldar armies so =).

@guy who doesn't like that I chose GK
In regards to choosing Grey Knights, I'm converting them with Thousand Son bits so that I will end up playing a thousand sons counts as GK army. I promise, it won't be a 6 psyrifle dreads list with henchmen spam!

@Reece
Unless I somehow fall into a bundle of cash, I might not make the finals but I hope to be able to play your SW again...Well they aren't really space wolves, just breaded guys with missile launchers and razorbacks =P. And yes, firepike/crackshot is a-mazing. I love getting those pen rolls at 9" on silly skimmers moving fast and going "BTW, you can't stop this because my exarch is pro and you wish you had his skills" I actually had to bust out the crack shot rules for some guy because he was so amazed by that ability.

I think it has alot to do with there only being 3 rounds. You dont really who are at the top since you end up with alot of 3-0s and only battle point modifiers dividing the winners up from 1st 2nd n 3rd place.

Congratz to Reece and Dave on a 1st and 2nd place victory, and qualifying for the finals! Nicely done!

Nightwatch wrote:

Amaya wrote:It's not so much that armies are subpar as that they only have 1-2 competitive builds and require a deal of luck + a good general.

The deal of luck part is what makes it subpar - if you can't win without above average dice rolls, chances are the army is subpar.

'


It's not just dice rolls. It's will the army be able to perform how I want it to. Will my opponent be foolish enough to let me get control of the game and let me play my game? All it takes are couple of big guns firing at the wrong targets and you can turn what should be a close game on paper into a massacre.

How were the TOs handling the messenger?

a) just have to ever enter the deployment zone

b) have to be there at the end of the game

Ya took 2nd at Skirmish in Deer Park. Lost out on 1st by 1pt. Was still fun and had some really fun games.

we had it so the messenger just enter the deployment zone, if the messenger was in a drop pod it had to come in your own deployment zone. no rulings on aethersales so i just moved in 1st turn to give me the extra pts.

Took 2nd in Norfolk with Mech IG.

In Phoenix it was:
In first place John G with Space Wolves
Second was Austin from El Paso with Dark Eldar
And third was me with grey knights

So I will see you suckas in LA next month!

@Reecius So it was you who beat out my buddy for first(He was the Russ IG). I don't know if you remember but he was up there with Tau at BAO for awhile.

Richardson Texas was:

1. Coteaz mech GK (3 dreads, SR, some purifiers, termies, and henchmen + other stuff)
2. Mech BA with 2 land raiders and i'm not sure what else.
3. Mech SW (Me). RP, CC scouts, 2x2 CML WG squads, 3 speeders, 6 GH rhinos, 3x5 missile LFs, 3 HB razors, 2 Las/plas.

Got myself a nice Ogre Boxed set that I then returned at the local GW for store credit...lol.

Grats to all! Wish I coulda made it... but now I'm in Florida for work lol

Jacksonville. AR

1st Dan (Dual wing Dark Angels)
2nd Jeremy (Mech IG)
3rd Matt (Me(Mech Wolves))

I personally hate ard boys now. I got the only player with 3 wins but i got 3rd.. gotta love failpoints

1st Grey Knights
2nd Grey Knights
3rd Chaos Space Marines

OneMeanDuck wrote:I personally hate ard boys now. I got the only player with 3 wins but i got 3rd.. gotta love failpoints

I went 3-0 yesterday and was tied for 5th . Then again our store had 40+ people and the top 3 had 3-0 with almost 3 full massacres each.

Anyway at showcase in media PA it was:

1st-mech IG
2nd-mech wolves with 60 grey hunters
3rd-mech IG

The two mech IG lists were very different, one was the more traditional leafblower vendetta based mechvet list while the other was rocking some executioners (who ironically played my friends 45 termy deathwing). I heard something like 30 terminators died in one turn...ew.

At time warp we only had 13 people, but it was a really tough field since NJ has some great gamers.

I took first with tyranids, after playing mech eldar in the messanger mission, and jaws razor wolves in the last. I chose tau for my next army.
Dark eldar took second.
And msu mech blood angels took 3rd.

Won Michigan yesterday with Chaos Daemons.

1st (Me)
2nd & 3rd (Grey Knights - can't remember names)

26 total players.

So... many... grey knights.... its kinda sickening lol. I'm surprised not more people picked Necrons

Julnlecs wrote:

Grimgob wrote:Had to play leaf blower guard twice!!
full points round 1 against IG
minor loss with 2 bonus points round 2 against IG
Full points round 3 against CSM

So.Cal was

1st Adam Gati- eldar
2nd Dave Fey- Black Templar
3rd Kieth- Orks
4th (Me)- Orks

First time to the semis out of three years and I feel pretty good about fourth out of 40.

How was the tie breaker decided between 1st and 2nd who both had 69 battle points?

Adam and I tied for first.

TO used battle point modifiers for Tie breaker.

Adam and I Both had 9 and tied that.

2nd tie breaker was strength of schedule.

Even though I had to play the top players round 2 and 3, Adams opponents had a higher battle point total.

Thus he won the second breaker.

I also lost rock, paper sissors ;p

IVIOOSE wrote:we had it so the messenger just enter the deployment zone, if the messenger was in a drop pod it had to come in your own deployment zone. no rulings on aethersales so i just moved in 1st turn to give me the extra pts.

The messenger was not allowed to be in reserve so having him in a drop pod wasn't legal. All the messenger had to do was enter the enemy zone, RAW.

I played in Pasadena at the event run by Game Empire Pasadena with Dave, and Grimgob. We had 41 players I went Minor Victory, Minor Loss (please, please, please, no random game length in 6th ed!), and Massacre Vicory I actually ended up 11 or 12 out of 40 with Bjorn Wolves. The first round didn't see as many draws as we had anticipated, and the number of Massacres in round 2 were surprising as well.

Our player breakdown was:
IG: 6
SW: 5
BA: 5
Orks: 5
GK: 2
CSM: 3
SM: 1
Tau: 1
Tyranids: 1
CD: 1
DE: 2
Eldar: 3
Necrons: 0
Witch Hunters: 0

Centurian99 wrote:Won Michigan yesterday with Chaos Daemons.

1st (Me)
2nd & 3rd (Grey Knights - can't remember names)

26 total players.

What did you pay them all off Bill?

Not sure if the MA results are up here yet, but here they are:

The northeast semi's were in Plainville MA at Battleground Games. As always, battlegrounds ran an awesome event.

Results were:

1st: Ben Mohlie, Space Marines
2nd: Jeff Hobin, Imperial Guard (unconventional mechanized)
3rd: Alex Fennel, Imperial Guard (all infantry)

There were at least 30 people at our location, maybe 40, not sure. There were a ton of great players. Simon Leen, Wyatt Traina, Alex Fennel, Jeff Hobin and more. I played Simon second round, and got a minor victory, great game and a ton of fun. Then last round Jeff and Alex tied, and I got a massacre, meaning I jumped past them into first. (I got max points round 1&3)

I thought the missions were generally better this year, except for the fact that different tables could get different victory conditions on the last mission. The way it turned out the top tables all rolled table quarters, so it actually ended up being even, but still bad design I think.

Not sure what I'm going to pick for my army, I'm going to see how long GW will let me delay the choice. (necrons!)

-Ben

Western PA. Pittsburg, held at Legion Games.

1st - Battlewagon Orks, lots of trucks and boyz
2nd - Thunderwolves
3rd - Foot slogging Space Marine.
4th - BLood Angels (Mech-Fear) {me}

It was a very strong field, not as many players as other places but everyone was extremely good. I think by the end of round two there had only been about 3-4 Massacres. So entering the final round, it was just about anyones game.

Final round, saw a lot of massacres. And really shook up the top 6 order. I finished in 4th, lost out by one point as the foot Marines tabled and scored a 24 pt Massacre vs a Battlewagon Ork list, just beating me out with my 22 pt Massacre vs Draigowing... :( but, the winner, said he was unable to go to Finals, so I get to go!

I would like to thank Kirasu for a Great Tournament. Of course no 40K Tournament is without Drama, but it was well run, and fairly judged.

Also want to congratulate all the winners at Legions, and elsewhere.. see you all (well 1/3) of you at Nationals!

I took 1st place in Oregon with my guard.

4 times playing in Semis.. two 1st place finishes and one 3rd place finish and a 4th.. All with different armies. woot!

Came in 6/7th didn't report my last rounds Victory points ... I had a Massacre,Major Loss,Major Win. Fair amount of bonus points throughout the day though

Fredericksburg,VA
1st DoA BloodAngels with 3x Auto/Las preds Dante + Sang
2 GK
3 GK

not 100% on second and third, however I had the mispleasure of playing the DoA BA guy in mission 2 with my MSU SW's

The Compleat Strategist, NYC
Only 10 participants and rounds were cut to only 2 hours each, which drastically affected outcomes... (my first and third game opponents would have massacred me if we had more time)

1st: Eldar
Mechanized, but didn't get a good look at it.

2nd: Space Marines
All infantry. 5 Tactical squads, Librarian, Shrike, 30 Terminators.

3rd: Imperial Guard (me)
Mechanized, 5 Vendettas, 3 Manticores, 8 Chimeras.

Spacecurves wrote:Not sure if the MA results are up here yet, but here they are:

The northeast semi's were in Plainville MA at Battleground Games.

I think there were more than a couple North East semi's. I played at the Semi held in Standish, Maine at Crossroads. Unfortunatly I didn't think to write down all the winners. But I think it went like this, hopefully somebody can correct me.

1st, Vulcan list maybe, nice guy who came down from Quebec
2nd, Me with GK
3rd, GK as well I think.... Hell I don't remember

There were 22 people at the even though.

I just noticed but the Da boyz tournament is the same time as the Ard Boyz Finals :(

Also the sad part is no one has an idea where the finals are anyways.

Landrain wrote:Western PA. Pittsburg, held at Legion Games.

1st - Battlewagon Orks, lots of trucks and boyz
2nd - Thunderwolves
3rd - Foot slogging Space Marine.
4th - BLood Angels (Mech-Fear) {me}

It was a very strong field, not as many players as other places but everyone was extremely good. I think by the end of round two there had only been about 3-4 Massacres. So entering the final round, it was just about anyones game.

Final round, saw a lot of massacres. And really shook up the top 6 order. I finished in 4th, lost out by one point as the foot Marines tabled and scored a 24 pt Massacre vs a Battlewagon Ork list, just beating me out with my 22 pt Massacre vs Draigowing... :( but, the winner, said he was unable to go to Finals, so I get to go!

I would like to thank Kirasu for a Great Tournament. Of course no 40K Tournament is without Drama, but it was well run, and fairly judged.

Also want to congratulate all the winners at Legions, and elsewhere.. see you all (well 1/3) of you at Nationals!

Thanks! and yeah there was some drama but thats to expected with a lot on the line.

Congrats to Polonius this year!

Grand Adventuers Murfreesboro, TN location:

1st Dark Eldar (me)
2nd orks
3rd vanilla marines

I played mech BA, Shrike+27 assault termies, and draigo wing + psyfilmen dreads. Got 71 points

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:Came in 6/7th didn't report my last rounds Victory points ... I had a Massacre,Major Loss,Major Win. Fair amount of bonus points throughout the day though

Fredericksburg,VA
1st DoA BloodAngels with 3x Auto/Las preds Dante + Sang
2 GK
3 GK

not 100% on second and third, however I had the mispleasure of playing the DoA BA guy in mission 2 with my MSU SW's

I was the second place with GK, bit of an error but mostly right, it should be:

1st - BA
2nd - GK (Me)
3rd - IG

Hard fought games, I made a couple key mistakes throughout the day that seemed small, but looking back and reflecting cost me the overall win. Mistakes rooted in not knowing my own rules well enough, and making a few key misplays that cost 1bp here, 2 bp there, and it added up. Lessons learned!

Cookie cutter GK won Orlando's.

That being said, the guy is known to be a pretty good tournament player regardless of faction.

The Houston area kid also cheated
He played that a vehicle moving flat out that gets destroyed allows his men to come out freely

FAQ which I showed to him states there all dead. But he ignored me.

CageUF wrote:Cookie cutter GK won Orlando's.

That being said, the guy is known to be a pretty good tournament player regardless of faction.

What the heck is Cookie Cutter GK? There's 1000 effective lists coming out of that book!

My coteaz henchman/psyfleman spam pwned my first space wolf opponent.

My second round I fought another local space wolf who after a bloody bloody fight with vehicles exploding and bodies dropping all over the place on both sides managed a win by having two infantry models on the objective at the end of the game. All other troop choices along with their transports from both sides were dead....between the two of us that was probably around 40 mounted grey hunters in 4 squads on his side and 2 mounted grey knight along with 4 henchman units in chimeras. Piles of dead bodies and wrecked vehicles surrounding the objective.

...guess they all wanted that beer.

I dropped out of the tourney for the last game to equalise another player who wanted to drop. I didnt sleep the night before (I work nights right now) so I welcomed a chance to go home and eat some defeat pizza, get some comfort from the gf (over my loss) and get some shuteye!

Better luck next year....I should've gone with my gut and went with my DE instead. I was too worried about the second mission though. Second guessing FTL.

Gnome Games in the shadows of Lambeau Field in Green Bay, WI

1. Hans Krueger Bloods Angels Mephiston mech
2. Lee Zagrzebski Draigo-wing with x3 Baby Carriages
3. Justin Wierzba Imperial Guard

10. me with Deathwing 46 termies and 2 typhoons. I was in 2nd after rd 1 and 2. I faced the eventual winner rd 3,
I saw what happens when termies roll 1's for saves. Very disappointing to get majored 21-4 in terrain feature (He had 2 I had 0) game.

We had 28 players and a wide variety of lists...

5 Blood Angels
2 Grey Knights
2 IG
3 Tyranids
1 Space Wolves
5 Orks
1 Dark Angels (me)
2 Eldar
2 Tau
2 Chaos Spaces Marines
1 Dark Eldar
1 Witch Hunters
1 Black Templars

(Corrected Plainville, MA results - you were close, Ben )

1st - Ben Mohlie w/marines
2nd - Alex Fennell w/foot guard
3rd - Jeff Hobin w/mech guard

Battleground is a very good store, and one I'll go back to the next time they run an event.

None of the top 3 finishers had any interest in going to the finals so our invites got passed down to 4th through 6th.

@Aldarionn
Thanks!

@Huckleberry
Yup, I saw a bunch of guys from the BAO there. Your bud was kicking ass with that Leman Russ list. He beat a very good Space Wolf Player to secure second.

I was told we had 45 players at our location, so it was a pretty thick field.

Janthkin took 4th with bugs.

@Bill
Well done on showing people that Daemons CAN beat Grey Knights when played right. Just have to hope it isn't warp quake spam and they aren't going first. Otherwise, Daemons can still get it done.

@Thread
Subpar armies exist in the mind. A good player can make it work with any army. It just comes down to skill, luck, and knowledge of the game. Some match-ups are worse than others, but it is rare that a situation is unwinable.

I just love seeing the internet truisms proven wrong, time and time again.

The player is what matters.

But anyway, congratz to everyone again. Looking forward to finals.

@Blackmoor
I hope to get a shot at that wacky GK list you've been playing....just not in a KP game! Haha.

Surprisingly low count of IG players in all these events. Looks like Marine armies and a couple of dark eldar and eldar will be the bulk of armies advancing.

shank911 wrote:The Houston area kid also cheated
He played that a vehicle moving flat out that gets destroyed allows his men to come out freely

FAQ which I showed to him states there all dead. But he ignored me.

Not true. The passengers only die if it immobilizes itself on terrain while moving flat out. Is this what happened or did it get shot on the other players turn?

Actually theeverlasting, I didn't want to go either so it made it's way all the way down to 7th XD

Game Room
Toledo, Ohio

My self and 2 others had a three way tie for first. The organizer broke it down my who got the most battle points in each mission until we did not have the same.
1st; My buddy Jason with Grey Knights
2nd, not sure on the name but Grey Knights
3rd, Tim(me) with Witch Hunters.

Atlant's top three were:

1. Orks
2. Space Wolves.
3. Nids

Reecius wrote:


@darkwynn
Haha, I seem to remember you and I talking black tempkars and me saying they were now top tier and you saying they weren't ;-)
Glad to see you do well!


.

Reecius they are still now a top tier army though Till I have Str 7 rending Psycannons and better troops then we can call them tier 1

@Darkwynn
Without psyker defense they can struggle a bit, and yes, their troops are subpar. But IMO, they are still top tier. They can compete on a level playing field with Grey Knights, IG, Wolves and the rest. I know the list Dave_Fay is playing will catch on soon. It is brutal.

And Grey Knights don't count! Haha, They are stupid, Mat Ward hates us, the game, or is an idiot to produce some of the crap he puts out.

Good luck in finals though, hopefully we'll get to play one of these days.

@Mortetvie
Too bad you can't make finals. And you know me! I am always down for a rematch, I love a challenging game. The better the opponent, the more fun the game, typically.

And Grey Knights don't count! Haha, They are stupid, Mat Ward hates us, the game, or is an idiot to produce some of the crap he puts out.

Now Now lets not go down to their level of mindset.

Reecius wrote:@Darkwynn
Without psyker defense they can struggle a bit, and yes, their troops are subpar. But IMO, they are still top tier. They can compete on a level playing field with Grey Knights, IG, Wolves and the rest. I know the list Dave_Fay is playing will catch on soon. It is brutal.

And Grey Knights don't count! Haha, They are stupid, Mat Ward hates us, the game, or is an idiot to produce some of the crap he puts out.

Good luck in finals though, hopefully we'll get to play one of these days.

@Mortetvie
Too bad you can't make finals. And you know me! I am always down for a rematch, I love a challenging game. The better the opponent, the more fun the game, typically.

I saw Dave Fay's list in action yesterday and it is brutal. He took out one of the top players from GE Pasadena and his Purifier GK army like it wasn't even there. The last time I saw that happen to that army was when I took it on with my Salamanders and 15 TH/SS Termies and 3 Vindicators. Dave and I were talking and it is just crazy to have 30 missiles and 12 LC shots in an army, plus decent counter assault in the forms of a Marshall and Emperors Champ.

Grey Knights, Grey Knights everywhere.



Maybe it's just me, but seriously, what's the appeal in them?

And has anyone else noticed a lack in Space Wolves and Dark Eldar so far in these results?

BSent wrote:Grey Knights, Grey Knights everywhere.



Maybe it's just me, but seriously, what's the appeal in them?

And has anyone else noticed a lack in Space Wolves and Dark Eldar so far in these results?

Did you miss mine? Got 71 out of 72 points with DE

gardeth wrote:

BSent wrote:Grey Knights, Grey Knights everywhere.



Maybe it's just me, but seriously, what's the appeal in them?

And has anyone else noticed a lack in Space Wolves and Dark Eldar so far in these results?

Did you miss mine? Got 71 out of 72 points with DE

It's not that I missed yours, it's that I expected there to be more!

I think grey knights might negatively effect the hobby. So many of them and there numbers ever growing it might drive players to put down their armies for a little bit as it can get real boring playing against the same army at every tournament.

Tomb King wrote:I think grey knights might negatively effect the hobby. So many of them and there numbers ever growing it might drive players to put down their armies for a little bit as it can get real boring playing against the same army at every tournament.

This happens with almost every new army. I think Tyranids are the only new Codex where it hasn't happened, and DE were delayed in their entrance (thanks largely to the fact that everyone went and bought a whole new army since the old models were horrible), but in the recent past, BA, SW, and IG all had this same sort of huge splash shortly after release. It'll pass here, like it always does.

I think Dark Eldar won in Minnesota thanks to some collusion with the judging staff allowing a local to win.

Apparently being disproved by the rulebook and having your fake source of the ruling disproved as well isn't enough to change a judges mind when it means his local buddy won't win.

Not to mention the player used his combat drugs to help him fudge going first rolls.

Dave_Fay wrote:

Julnlecs wrote:

Grimgob wrote:Had to play leaf blower guard twice!!
full points round 1 against IG
minor loss with 2 bonus points round 2 against IG
Full points round 3 against CSM

So.Cal was

1st Adam Gati- eldar
2nd Dave Fey- Black Templar
3rd Kieth- Orks
4th (Me)- Orks

First time to the semis out of three years and I feel pretty good about fourth out of 40.

How was the tie breaker decided between 1st and 2nd who both had 69 battle points?

Adam and I tied for first.

TO used battle point modifiers for Tie breaker.

Adam and I Both had 9 and tied that.

2nd tie breaker was strength of schedule.

Even though I had to play the top players round 2 and 3, Adams opponents had a higher battle point total.

Thus he won the second breaker.

I also lost rock, paper sissors ;p

To be fair, we both played people with roughly equal battle points game 2 and 3; I played someone who had 23 battle points game 2 and game 3 I played someone with 47 so our opponent's were not that far off (maybe by 1 point each game) it just was bad luck on your part since your first round opponent didn't win any games and mine won after he lost to me =(.

But yes, a good game of rock paper scissors settled the matter haha, good show Dave =).

Tomb King wrote:I think grey knights might negatively effect the hobby. So many of them and there numbers ever growing it might drive players to put down their armies for a little bit as it can get real boring playing against the same army at every tournament.

I see an overabundance of Grey Knights (in some locations) more a reflection of the small size of the army AND the easy paint job. I remember in late 3rd edition when Templars came out and it seemed everyone had Black Templar armies overnight. It was more a reflection of painting a Black and White army is quick and easy. It's the same with Grey Knights. It's an easy army to paint and on top of that you don't need very many models. This is a recipe for mass produced GK armies. The rules don't hurt either.

However, in my old age I am more and more drawn to the army that is less popular. I don't want to have one of many at a tournement. I also find it easier to win tournaments where 50% of the armies present come from one codex. BA can make a good mech/hybrid list that has the tools to defeat every GK list (paladins, henchmen, purifier, etc..). It might struggle against certain SW lists, but here in Chicago we used to have around 40% of our tourney lists be SW and now it seems most of the SW players have turned into GK players. The last tourney might have had 1 SW list and no DE. The GK lists were very common.

I think a savy veteran can take advantage of this herd metatility to bend the odds in thier favor.

@Tomb King
They aren't as bad as Daemons were for Fantasy (Again, Mat Ward and his skillz in action) but yeah, they are clearly more powerful than they need to be, and can do some things that literally, break the game. Bad form, Mr. Ward. Give us more books like Space Marines (best codex ever, IMO) and less Grey Knights and the hobby and game will be better for it.

@Adam Longwalker
Haha, you are right. Temper Tantrums won't help, but it does piss me off to see. It is either a clear attempt to sell models, incompetence or indifference. All of those are bad.

@Thread
I won't play GKs because they are so overdone right now. Like Darth said, because they are cheap, easy to paint, few models and good, they will be everywhere until the new hotness comes out.

For now, I just take great pleasure in smashing Grey Knights at every opportunity.

Congratz Matt on your third place finish our first round game was fun unfurtunately it was the only game i enjoyed all day.

GK are a relative easy army to build up. Aside from DCA , crusaders, and psyflemen dreads (hard to find and expensive); everything else has some sort of model or can easily be converted. Low model count also helps.

I hope Ward writes the thousand sons codex, they will get a power that if cast, the game ends on a 4+ and you win, the roll is modified by +1 for every psyker on the table.

Not many 'nids in top 3s.

Byte wrote:Not many 'nids in top 3s.

Tyranids dont exist in matt wards world anymore. So the answer is zero!

mortetvie wrote:I hope Ward writes the thousand sons codex, they will get a power that if cast, the game ends on a 4+ and you win, the roll is modified by +1 for every psyker on the table.

I lol'd at this

Byte wrote:Not many 'nids in top 3s.

They were all eaten by the squats.

I too hate playing a codex everyone else is playing. This was the last game for my Grey Knights for a while, and I am either going with Demons or Dark Eldar.

I also had some shenanigans pulled on my in my last game and I wrote up what happened on my blog.
http://blackmoors40k.blogspot.com/2011/09/ard-boyz-shenanigans.html

Blackmoor wrote:

I also had some shenanigans pulled on my in my last game and I wrote up what happened on my blog.
http://blackmoors40k.blogspot.com/2011/09/ard-boyz-shenanigans.html

No List? That blows my mind... I have only experienced bad tourneys at 'ard boyz and I feel like 'tourney gamers' get a bad rap because people only know 'ard boyz. Sadly, the casuals who hate the attitude of competitive players are probably facing other casuals who simply play the game differently. I don't see how the TO could allow that stuff to go on with a straight face.

Heh, since I don't anticipate the prize support being stellar for the finals and IF they hold it locally to me, I plan on bringing a Tyranid Warrior spam list with 9 lictors or maybe a Thousand Sons CSM list. I really love nids, they were my first army in 1999 but I hate what GW has done with them =(.

Blackmoor wrote:

Byte wrote:Not many 'nids in top 3s.

They were all eaten by the squats.

I too hate playing a codex everyone else is playing. This was the last game for my Grey Knights for a while, and I am either going with Demons or Dark Eldar.

I also had some shenanigans pulled on my in my last game and I wrote up what happened on my blog.
http://blackmoors40k.blogspot.com/2011/09/ard-boyz-shenanigans.html

People forget 1-2 things during games. This is not what I am talking about, but Allan describes a situation of blatent and repeated rules breaking which starts before the game begins. This is what I wish to address.


Allan you are the problem, not the DE player. You allow him to play this way. You allow him to do this in your game so he is justified to do it in his other games with other people. You can call it being laid back, but it is enabling. Ask Neville Chamberlain about that.

#1 If he didn't have a list, then the game doesn't get played. He has to forfit. You need to make a stink about it. When you don't do that it just opens a can of worms for all sorts of things to go on. You need to stop him at every shaddy deal and call the head judge over immediately and LOUDLY. If this guy knows you are spot on with the rules and you will call him out on it, then he will not want to chance things during your game. Things will run smoothly.

As it was as the game went on, shannigans kept getting pulled which were more and more reprehensible. You started to question him, but not with the head judge there. Bring the judge over to your table each time until he stays or this guy gets kicked out.

If you did not do any of that during your game, then you forfit the right to talk about it afterwards. That's just so passive-aggressive. I hate it when a guy cheats at Ard Boyz and you are right, it happens in Ard Boyz because

1. The Prize
2. No painting
3. Free

Blatent cheating will continue as long as there are people who are to "laid back" to call someone out openly and in public during these events.

Blackmoor wrote:

I also had some shenanigans pulled on my in my last game and I wrote up what happened on my blog.
http://blackmoors40k.blogspot.com/2011/09/ard-boyz-shenanigans.html

These kinds of players are what give tournament players a bad name. They are the whole reason we are seen as WAAC jackasses. We all make mistakes here and there, but there are limits. I applaud you for being as tolerant as you were, because I have a hunch that most of the rest of us would have called a judge to stand at the table for the entire game and pointed out every mistake he made after about the 3rd or 4th one.

DarthDiggler wrote:

Tomb King wrote:I think grey knights might negatively effect the hobby. So many of them and there numbers ever growing it might drive players to put down their armies for a little bit as it can get real boring playing against the same army at every tournament.

I see an overabundance of Grey Knights (in some locations) more a reflection of the small size of the army AND the easy paint job.

I don't think this is the heart of the matter.

DarthDiggler wrote: The rules don't hurt either.

Here we go. Now we're talking. There was an abundance of Grey Knights at the Semis where I played. I know for a fact what the people played in the Prelims, and almost none of them were Grey Knights. In fact, one of the people playing in Prelims doesn't even play Grey Knights, but had a Grey Knight army for that day. The reason? He looked at the power of his friend's list and made a carbon copy of it. I played against Grey Knights in 2 of my 3 games, with danger of playing them again for the 3rd round because of where I was scoring.

puma713 wrote:
Here we go. Now we're talking. There was an abundance of Grey Knights at the Semis where I played. I know for a fact what the people played in the Prelims, and almost none of them were Grey Knights. In fact, one of the people playing in Prelims doesn't even play Grey Knights, but had a Grey Knight army for that day. The reason? He looked at the power of his friend's list and made a carbon copy of it. I played against Grey Knights in 2 of my 3 games, with danger of playing them again for the 3rd round because of where I was scoring.

A new GK player is still a weak player. He doesn't have expierence with his army vs. a wide array of opponents. These types of players can usually only do one thing with their army. Sit and shoot or move forward to assault. Throw in some unorthodox moves and they tend to struggle with going off the beaten path.

I saw this with SW when they first appeared and everyone was taking a counts as SW army. It was like clockwork. Long Fangs deploy in cover, T-Wolves spread out on the go line as far forward as possible. If you didn't deploy across from them, ready to take your beating, then they got confused and could be had.

DarthDiggler wrote:

Blackmoor wrote:

Byte wrote:Not many 'nids in top 3s.

They were all eaten by the squats.

I too hate playing a codex everyone else is playing. This was the last game for my Grey Knights for a while, and I am either going with Demons or Dark Eldar.

I also had some shenanigans pulled on my in my last game and I wrote up what happened on my blog.
http://blackmoors40k.blogspot.com/2011/09/ard-boyz-shenanigans.html

People forget 1-2 things during games. This is not what I am talking about, but Allan describes a situation of blatent and repeated rules breaking which starts before the game begins. This is what I wish to address.


Allan you are the problem, not the DE player. You allow him to play this way. You allow him to do this in your game so he is justified to do it in his other games with other people. You can call it being laid back, but it is enabling. Ask Neville Chamberlain about that.

#1 If he didn't have a list, then the game doesn't get played. He has to forfit. You need to make a stink about it. When you don't do that it just opens a can of worms for all sorts of things to go on. You need to stop him at every shaddy deal and call the head judge over immediately and LOUDLY. If this guy knows you are spot on with the rules and you will call him out on it, then he will not want to chance things during your game. Things will run smoothly.

As it was as the game went on, shannigans kept getting pulled which were more and more reprehensible. You started to question him, but not with the head judge there. Bring the judge over to your table each time until he stays or this guy gets kicked out.

If you did not do any of that during your game, then you forfit the right to talk about it afterwards. That's just so passive-aggressive. I hate it when a guy cheats at Ard Boyz and you are right, it happens in Ard Boyz because

1. The Prize
2. No painting
3. Free

Blatent cheating will continue as long as there are people who are to "laid back" to call someone out openly and in public during these events.

Wow, are you really comparing the actions of one person playing with plastic/metal/resin models to the actions of a man who killed millions in cold blood and sent the world into a war that resulted in the use of nuclear weapons?

That said, I agree that we shouldn't enable people to play outside the rules or even break them. I had one situation in my round 2 game that if I had been smart and not "nice" I could have called the TO over and probably won my game. But my opponent was no Adolf Hitler nor am I any Neville Chamberlain.

Tomb King wrote:I think grey knights might negatively effect the hobby. So many of them and there numbers ever growing it might drive players to put down their armies for a little bit as it can get real boring playing against the same army at every tournament.

You were playing leafblower IG... Pot calling the kettle black much?

isanti13 wrote:

Tomb King wrote:I think grey knights might negatively effect the hobby. So many of them and there numbers ever growing it might drive players to put down their armies for a little bit as it can get real boring playing against the same army at every tournament.

You were playing leafblower IG... Pot calling the kettle black much?

lol, I only had 1 leman russ and 1 manticore, no artillery pieces, and no infantry platoons. You should look up leafblower IG. My list was of my own design. I will post it later when i post my battle reports. Also hate to break it to you the original leaf blower list isn't even the top list anymore or even possible given the removal of allies.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/09/40k-ard-boys-armylist-leafblower.html

OverwatchCNC wrote:
Wow, are you really comparing the actions of one person playing with plastic/metal/resin models to the actions of a man who killed millions in cold blood and sent the world into a war that resulted in the use of nuclear weapons?

That said, I agree that we shouldn't enable people to play outside the rules or even break them. I had one situation in my round 2 game that if I had been smart and not "nice" I could have called the TO over and probably won my game. But my opponent was no Adolf Hitler nor am I any Neville Chamberlain.

Can you give me a common example of enabling that lets the abusive party continue their ways? I can give you a bunch, but they are personal experiences, not famous, and no one would understand the comparison except for me. Is there another one you can think of? I'm all ears.

Tomb King wrote:

isanti13 wrote:

Tomb King wrote:I think grey knights might negatively effect the hobby. So many of them and there numbers ever growing it might drive players to put down their armies for a little bit as it can get real boring playing against the same army at every tournament.

You were playing leafblower IG... Pot calling the kettle black much?

lol, I only had 1 leman russ and 1 manticore, no artillery pieces, and no infantry platoons. You should look up leafblower IG. My list was of my own design. I will post it later when i post my battle reports. Also hate to break it to you the original leaf blower list isn't even the top list anymore or even possible given the removal of allies.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/09/40k-ard-boys-armylist-leafblower.html

There are many brands of leafblowers, but they are all alpha strike need-first-turn-to-win lists

Personally im not a fan of the original leaf blower list now looking at it. Doesnt look that great IMHO.

DarthDiggler wrote:
If you did not do any of that during your game, then you forfit the right to talk about it afterwards. That's just so passive-aggressive. I hate it when a guy cheats at Ard Boyz and you are right, it happens in Ard Boyz because

1. The Prize
2. No painting
3. Free

Blatent cheating will continue as long as there are people who are to "laid back" to call someone out openly and in public during these events.

What is with correlating non-painted armies to cheating? I know people who don't paint get on in this forum with great regularity (no pun intended), but I'm sure that there are just as many people with cheating tendencies who paint as those who do not.

isanti13 wrote:

Tomb King wrote:

isanti13 wrote:

Tomb King wrote:I think grey knights might negatively effect the hobby. So many of them and there numbers ever growing it might drive players to put down their armies for a little bit as it can get real boring playing against the same army at every tournament.

You were playing leafblower IG... Pot calling the kettle black much?

lol, I only had 1 leman russ and 1 manticore, no artillery pieces, and no infantry platoons. You should look up leafblower IG. My list was of my own design. I will post it later when i post my battle reports. Also hate to break it to you the original leaf blower list isn't even the top list anymore or even possible given the removal of allies.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/09/40k-ard-boys-armylist-leafblower.html

There are many brands of leafblowers, but they are all alpha strike need-first-turn-to-win lists

I actually designed mine to survive the first turn! First turn or not I planned on deploying my entire army. This was my plan going into the tournament given my build you would understand why.

isanti13 wrote:

Tomb King wrote:

isanti13 wrote:

Tomb King wrote:I think grey knights might negatively effect the hobby. So many of them and there numbers ever growing it might drive players to put down their armies for a little bit as it can get real boring playing against the same army at every tournament.

You were playing leafblower IG... Pot calling the kettle black much?

lol, I only had 1 leman russ and 1 manticore, no artillery pieces, and no infantry platoons. You should look up leafblower IG. My list was of my own design. I will post it later when i post my battle reports. Also hate to break it to you the original leaf blower list isn't even the top list anymore or even possible given the removal of allies.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/09/40k-ard-boys-armylist-leafblower.html

There are many brands of leafblowers, but they are all alpha strike need-first-turn-to-win lists

I went second in two of my three games and did just fine. Leafblower is a silly catch-all for IG, but really it is just Mech Guard.

Darkwynn wrote:

Centurian99 wrote:Won Michigan yesterday with Chaos Daemons.

1st (Me)
2nd & 3rd (Grey Knights - can't remember names)

26 total players.

What did you pay them all off Bill?

Funny thing was, there were a lot of GK players there...and I didn't face any of them. (Wanted to, as my list is designed to make GK players cry). But basically, round 1 turned out to be very tough for the GK players to max out in. A lot of 23s, but for some reason I think none of them got 24. Round 2 was challenging for everyone...Nobody massacred.

So I faced a Black Templar army in round 1 and massacred it. Faced a Space Wolf Thunderwolves, and pulled out a minor victory with full bonus. Apparently, I was still at the top going into 3, and faced a battlewagon ork horde.

Round 1 was pretty one-sided, and we ended up calling it after turn 5 because he had a single immobilized rhino. Round 2 was really challenging. Had wonky dice, and my preferred half was in reserve. Had that game ended after 5, I would have had a major loss, but in turn 6 I swarmed the objective and killed off all his remaining troops, jumped Fateweaver on top of the objective, and ran my last two troop units into range. Round 3...well, I brought rock, he brought scissors. We were in assault on turn 1, and I think we called it after turn 3 because the only things he had left were a squad of boyz and a battlewagon, and he was looking at having those units get jumped by about half my army.

I think the GK players, in general, had a tough time getting max bonus points. Plus there were a lot of GK on GK matchups that (I think) basically resulted in draws.

Games To Die For. Indianapolis IN.

#1. Ork Hoard. (70 points, Triple Massacre)
#2. Logan Wing. (64 points, Triple Massacre)
#3. Leman Russ Squadron IG. (Me, 60 points, Major Vic, Major Vic, Massacre)

Had around 40 people show up, only one rules issue during the whole day that I knew of. Organizers ran a fairly tight ship, everyone was really friendly, and the place was pretty nice. I would happily go back there again any time, but instead I live in Lexington KY.

Tomb King wrote:Personally im not a fan of the original leaf blower list now looking at it. Doesnt look that great IMHO.

Because that isn't the original leaf blower and the list didn't need to go first to win. Tired of people talking out of their ass having no idea how the list even works.

augustus5 wrote:

DarthDiggler wrote:
If you did not do any of that during your game, then you forfit the right to talk about it afterwards. That's just so passive-aggressive. I hate it when a guy cheats at Ard Boyz and you are right, it happens in Ard Boyz because

1. The Prize
2. No painting
3. Free

Blatent cheating will continue as long as there are people who are to "laid back" to call someone out openly and in public during these events.

What is with correlating non-painted armies to cheating? I know people who don't paint get on in this forum with great regularity (no pun intended), but I'm sure that there are just as many people with cheating tendencies who paint as those who do not.

In this situation, the non-painting directly led to cheating because neither player could distinguish which models were from which unit which lead to game-impacting rulebreaking. While the same thing could have happened with painted models with no distinguishing marks, I would say this is a problem much more encountered with unpainted models.

Unpainted models are harder to distinguish, and in a tourney that doesn't require painting, it should still require clear identification of which models are in which unit. This is the responsibility of the person who chooses not to paint their models to provide a good way of distinguishing that doesn't include paint.

Darkwynn wrote:

Tomb King wrote:Personally im not a fan of the original leaf blower list now looking at it. Doesnt look that great IMHO.

Because that isn't the original leaf blower and the list didn't need to go first to win. Tired of people talking out of their ass having no idea how the list even works.

I didnt say it did. Someone else did. Well at least I was served by the man who ran it. If your saying I dont know my guard you would be wrong especially since I am one of only 3 guard players so far to take first with there guard this round of ard boyz. My list is considerably different then what was reported as the leaf blower. I only took 6 troop choices to the second round this year with my 51st Cadian Mechanized Division.

Tomb King wrote:

Darkwynn wrote:

Tomb King wrote:Personally im not a fan of the original leaf blower list now looking at it. Doesnt look that great IMHO.

Because that isn't the original leaf blower and the list didn't need to go first to win. Tired of people talking out of their ass having no idea how the list even works.

I didnt say it did. Someone else did. Well at least I was served by the man who ran it. If your saying I dont know my guard you would be wrong especially since I am one of only 3 guard players so far to take first with there guard this round of ard boyz. My list is considerably different then what was reported as the leaf blower. I only took 6 troop choices to the second round this year with my 51st Cadian Mechanized Division.

Just a heads up, winning doesn't mean you know something. That said I have no doubt you know your Guard, the original leaf blower list was downright silly. The lists people run now are in fact much better but this has happened due to shifts in the meta.

Gratz on taking first, I was kicking myself all day for not taking guard. ( Space Wolves instead)

Gratz to the winners out there I sincerely hope GW doesnt make you some slowed 2500 pt lists

Fairview Heights, IL had a great turnout. Had 24+ reserve and I think 23 showed and we had one fellow come to try and fill in. Great crowd!

Final standings were something like..
1) Dark Eldar (me)
2) Dark Eldar
3) Grey Knights (I think?)
4) Tyranids

I don't know how many were moving on to finals though. I think 2nd and 3rd passed.

As a Grey Knight player I do not want to go up against a Chaos Demon army.

Fateweaver+blessing of the blood god=bad times.

Tyranids on the other hand...

Blackmoor wrote:As a Grey Knight player I do not want to go up against a Chaos Demon army.

Fateweaver+blessing of the blood god=bad times.

Tyranids on the other hand...

Its the henchmen who do some real damage to deamons in hth. Adding a banisher > fateweaver, DCA plus rad and psychoke nades also ruin any assault.

Ard boys made me lose my desire to play this game

FeindusMaximus wrote:Ard boys made me lose my desire to play this game

It is one tournament and not even an important one at that. Please do not let ard boyz dictate your opinion of the game. It is ran to a point where it rewards the nastiest list you can field. I said multiple times I would never play the list I brought outside of ard boyz. Only reason I brought such a nasty list is because I knew GK would bring a nastier one and I had to have a counter for them for my all comers. Ard boyz is one event once a year and not even considered part of the competitive tournament circuit. Drive on and enjoy this great hobby.

FeindusMaximus wrote:Ard boys made me lose my desire to play this game

Feel free to send me your army if you don't want to play anymore.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

Gratz to the winners out there I sincerely hope GW doesnt make you some slowed 2500 pt lists

I 2nd this last comment! I wanted sisters of battle, dark angels, Dark Eldar or even space wolves but I was advised that none of these would come the way I wanted them. So I chose IG because I am a broke college student and will probably just sell the army anyways.

shank911 wrote:The Houston area kid also cheated
He played that a vehicle moving flat out that gets destroyed allows his men to come out freely

FAQ which I showed to him states there all dead. But he ignored me.

I was the guy who placed third with BA. I was also the only one to beat that kid (read barely) as it was a very tough game and he does know the rules well. Correct me if I am wrong but he didn't get Imobilized during his movement phase but in your shooting phase. If I remember correctly that is. Since that was the case they could get out. In any case you should have called wthe TO over and had him rule on it. It wasn't like he wasn't all over the place. If I am wrong about when it got Imobilized then sorry, but I don't think so. Your not getting the TO envolved was your fault in any situation. Don't trash the young man about something if you didn't call him on it.

Which player where you btw.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

FTHDace wrote:Ya took 2nd at Skirmish in Deer Park. Lost out on 1st by 1pt. Was still fun and had some really fun games.

Yeah it was close for us three as 2 points spread it could have swung either way. I am just glad ,we got to play against different people instead of a rematch of the pre lims.

Spacecurves wrote:
I thought the missions were generally better this year, except for the fact that different tables could get different victory conditions on the last mission. The way it turned out the top tables all rolled table quarters, so it actually ended up being even, but still bad design I think.

-Ben

Well the missions are usually super bad but the first two still seemed kind of goofy. It really seems like every round of every year should heavily influence your army selection. It seemed like people willing to take 10+ scoring units for the second mission would be at a significant advantage in terms of their overall performance for the tournament. I took 12.

I don't have any problem with people on different tables playing for different objectives. What is the problem with that? It's just another variable like terrain, player, army. At least that mission makes you think and unlike the first two you could happily play from reserves.

Yeah though overall bad design like just about every year.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yeah I am really tired of playing MSU vs MSU with such short time limits. Everything needs to be 30 minutes longer. 150 minutes for 2500 is not enough. Even if I get on my opponent about time after 30-45 and keep impressing they just can't move that fast because they have so many options. I end up using about 1/3rd of the clock and sometimes you are just lucky if you get to roll for RGL. It sucks that the prize is so great, not attending is not an option.

UPSTATE NY! Represent!

Sooo my ‘ard boys experience, First off I play Daemons and yes I think I am going to start a support group! First round I played a space wolf list 9 drop pods Logan with long fangs other pods had lots of Grey hunters! I tabled him took full points. Second Match I am waiting at the table and I am at the top table sweet! I look at the name I am playing its some guy called Jay W so I ask around I hear he plays for Team America, Sweet! Then I am told he plays Grey Knights (UGH!!!!!) I AM F---ED, So it was a great game lots of back and forth but he did end up beating me but I did manage to squeak 2 points off him, and I still had both HQ’s and one Troop left on the board, we had to stop at the top of turn 5 due to time, I did not get my turn (think I could have cleaned some of his troops off the objective but that’s ok) it was a great game lots of fun. Third match, Dual lash CSM new player lots of rhinos and a land raider, I did end up tabling him and getting full points which put me square in 4th place! I am good with it, all in all had a great time and a lot of fun! I also think that if I had not played a GK list on the 2nd match I would have done better but I will never know! Haha!

There's a lot of complaining about GK's in a thread that is mostly populated by results that don't in fact have GK's as the winning army.

In OKC our results were..

1. Space Marines
2. Blood Angels (mech w/ fear)
3. Space Marines

Dont get me wrong I am not complaining about GK's, but as a daemon army I am kind of F-ed more then other armys that play them!

Nachsville wrote:Springfield IL

1st. Henchmen Gk with 2 storm ravens
2nd. Mech space wolves with Njal and thunderwolves (me)
3rd. Coteaz+Draigo gk with 5 dreads

8 or 9 out of 20 players brought gk

good luck. I was one of the GK players there.

OneMeanDuck wrote:I personally hate ard boys now. I got the only player with 3 wins but i got 3rd.. gotta love failpoints

1st Grey Knights
2nd Grey Knights
3rd Chaos Space Marines

Not that many players then? Where were you that had 8 or less people?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

augustus5 wrote:

DarthDiggler wrote:
If you did not do any of that during your game, then you forfit the right to talk about it afterwards. That's just so passive-aggressive. I hate it when a guy cheats at Ard Boyz and you are right, it happens in Ard Boyz because

1. The Prize
2. No painting
3. Free

Blatent cheating will continue as long as there are people who are to "laid back" to call someone out openly and in public during these events.

What is with correlating non-painted armies to cheating? I know people who don't paint get on in this forum with great regularity (no pun intended), but I'm sure that there are just as many people with cheating tendencies who paint as those who do not.

People that cheat at tournaments tend to get called on it. It's not a good experience. They learn that if they cheat, they are probably getting called on it. They learn to cheat less.

People that don't paint play in less tournaments.

So 'Ardboyz comes around, and there is a bit of an outpouring of people that only play once a year, and some of those are the guys that cheat and bully their friends in basements and haven't been brought to see the light. So not really a case of 'not painting' = 'more chance of cheating'. I also see a lot of people that play at GW stores where ironically no one makes them learn the rules or paint. I spend a lot of time with these players round 1 explaining basic rules of the game.

I was called out the 3rd match I was allocating the wounds on bloodcrushers and the person called over the TO to ask if what I was doing was legal, which it was, he told me that the last 2 people he was playing cheated him. In my 2nd match the guy was shooting a auto cannon and only rolled 3 dice, I told him he had to roll 4. If you don’t play fair then it’s a hollow win and not good for karma!

Tomb King wrote:

Darkwynn wrote:

Tomb King wrote:Personally im not a fan of the original leaf blower list now looking at it. Doesnt look that great IMHO.

Because that isn't the original leaf blower and the list didn't need to go first to win. Tired of people talking out of their ass having no idea how the list even works.

I didnt say it did. Someone else did. Well at least I was served by the man who ran it. If your saying I dont know my guard you would be wrong especially since I am one of only 3 guard players so far to take first with there guard this round of ard boyz. My list is considerably different then what was reported as the leaf blower. I only took 6 troop choices to the second round this year with my 51st Cadian Mechanized Division.

@Tomb King
I am not saying you don't know your army i never said that. I am just saying that isn't the orginal leafblower list that was posted. I am more annoyed who ever was the other guy who said that IG needs to go first to win. It only shows a novice understanding of 40k at best.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

Tomb King wrote:

Darkwynn wrote:

Tomb King wrote:Personally im not a fan of the original leaf blower list now looking at it. Doesnt look that great IMHO.

Because that isn't the original leaf blower and the list didn't need to go first to win. Tired of people talking out of their ass having no idea how the list even works.

I didnt say it did. Someone else did. Well at least I was served by the man who ran it. If your saying I dont know my guard you would be wrong especially since I am one of only 3 guard players so far to take first with there guard this round of ard boyz. My list is considerably different then what was reported as the leaf blower. I only took 6 troop choices to the second round this year with my 51st Cadian Mechanized Division.

Just a heads up, winning doesn't mean you know something. That said I have no doubt you know your Guard, the original leaf blower list was downright silly. The lists people run now are in fact much better but this has happened due to shifts in the meta.

Gratz on taking first, I was kicking myself all day for not taking guard. ( Space Wolves instead)

Gratz to the winners out there I sincerely hope GW doesnt make you some slowed 2500 pt lists

The orginal leafblower still holds up very well I can still take that army out in a 2000 poin to 2500 point game and finish the game in 3 turns in my advantage. If your using the list posted on Bols it was incorrect on purpose.

DarthDiggler wrote:

OverwatchCNC wrote:
Wow, are you really comparing the actions of one person playing with plastic/metal/resin models to the actions of a man who killed millions in cold blood and sent the world into a war that resulted in the use of nuclear weapons?

That said, I agree that we shouldn't enable people to play outside the rules or even break them. I had one situation in my round 2 game that if I had been smart and not "nice" I could have called the TO over and probably won my game. But my opponent was no Adolf Hitler nor am I any Neville Chamberlain.

Can you give me a common example of enabling that lets the abusive party continue their ways? I can give you a bunch, but they are personal experiences, not famous, and no one would understand the comparison except for me. Is there another one you can think of? I'm all ears.

Any of the text book examples. People who enable alcoholics, drug users, parents who enable their childrens poor behavior; there are a myriad of examples of enabling that don't equate either Blackmoor or the player in question with events that resulted in the deaths of millions.

Thunderfrog wrote:There's a lot of complaining about GK's in a thread that is mostly populated by results that don't in fact have GK's as the winning army.

In OKC our results were..

1. Space Marines
2. Blood Angels (mech w/ fear)
3. Space Marines

That is true. And I am one of them! The reason being is that this book can break the game. Litterally it can make the game unplayable. That is bad game design and whag appears to be, to me, blatantly putting sales ahead of the good of the game. That is something that deserves to be pointed out and made a fuss about as hopefully, gamesworkshop sees we won't stand for it and writes better, more balanced rules.

As for people who play the army, they're free to do what they want. as long as a player's list is legal, I will never make a negative remark about the content of tbeir list.

augustus5 wrote:
What is with correlating non-painted armies to cheating? I know people who don't paint get on in this forum with great regularity (no pun intended), but I'm sure that there are just as many people with cheating tendencies who paint as those who do not.

In my experience there are far more people that don't paint than people that do paint, and even if there is no bigger percentage of people who cheat in either group, there are vastly more people who do not paint, and thus there are more cheaters in that group. That said, I've played against people with fully painted armies that had questionable practices when it comes to unit differentiation (An infantry Imperial Guard player that differentiated his units by a tiny spot of color on poorly painted models. From across the table they all looked the same and he bunched them together, then took extra time repeatedly asking which unit you were shooting at. That game didn't finish a 4th turn) but all in all I have had far fewer problems against people that paint their armies. I paint when I can, and I have a very busy schedule, so most of my models are painted with the odd unpainted unit or tank when I have to field high points. Perhaps if I finished painting I could reasonably attend tournaments where people all know the rules and don't cheat. Alas, because I don't have as much time as I would like, I usually have to settle for tournaments that don't score painting if I ever want to win anything.

@Reecius

It can only make the game unplayable for Codex: Daemons. Which I'll agree is bad game design. But no other book is broken by the GK's.

Aldarionn wrote:

augustus5 wrote:
What is with correlating non-painted armies to cheating? I know people who don't paint get on in this forum with great regularity (no pun intended), but I'm sure that there are just as many people with cheating tendencies who paint as those who do not.

In my experience there are far more people that don't paint than people that do paint, and even if there is no bigger percentage of people who cheat in either group, there are vastly more people who do not paint, and thus there are more cheaters in that group. That said, I've played against people with fully painted armies that had questionable practices when it comes to unit differentiation (An infantry Imperial Guard player that differentiated his units by a tiny spot of color on poorly painted models. From across the table they all looked the same and he bunched them together, then took extra time repeatedly asking which unit you were shooting at. That game didn't finish a 4th turn) but all in all I have had far fewer problems against people that paint their armies. I paint when I can, and I have a very busy schedule, so most of my models are painted with the odd unpainted unit or tank when I have to field high points. Perhaps if I finished painting I could reasonably attend tournaments where people all know the rules and don't cheat. Alas, because I don't have as much time as I would like, I usually have to settle for tournaments that don't score painting if I ever want to win anything.

next to nothing of my army was painted for ard boyz, but I made a point of painting stripes of unique colors on all the bases to designate squads. You played a douche...nothing more. Don't lump everyone together in the unpainted army category as a cheater. While you are are right that the number of cheaters in a larger group with the same % make up would be higher you can't just throw that around...generalizing like that doesn't get most people very far.

Here's my results:

Horrible.

I played a Razorspam Blood Angels list - Dante with 5x Sang Guard (2 infernus, powerfist, chapter banner) with a Sanguinary Priest, 5x razrs (Las/Plas) with 5x 5 man Assault Marines (powerfist, infernus) and a Sanguinary Priest, Vindicator, Stormraven filled with 1 Librarian with Termie armor and Stormshield and 5x Assault Marines with Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields.

I played at Showcase Comics in SE Pennsylvania and man is that a beautiful store. Really nice upgrade from their old place. Also, I wanted to note that all the people I played were very cool (didnt come against any jerk cheaters or anything). That was my biggest worry coming into the semis, that I would go up against hardcore, win at all costs jerks. But no the people were really nice.

1st game was against a Deathwing Terminator Army, I think it was like 40-50 Thunderhammer/Stormshield termies swarming accross the table. Not much I could do against 3+ invuls, even with Lascannons and Plasmas. I rolled average in this one and he made most of his saves. I got my messenger to the opposite side so that was a minor morale victory. My army list had very little to counter all those termies.
It was a Major Loss.

2nd game was against Orks. I've only played orks once before in a 3vs3 Armageddon recreation. I thought I was all smart, getting first turn and moving my Razorbacks flat out to the middle of the board to surround the center flag. I hadn't played against the Orks' Battlewagons with Def Rollas, obviously. He proceeded to ram and roll my razorbacks and Massacred me. My lack of experience seriously showed here. My rolling didnt help.
It was a Massacre Loss.

3rd game was against Space Wolves. He had Zero battle points and I had 3 from the first 2 games. Playing him I had to help him with some of the rules (ie. how psychic hood worked etc) so I'm pretty sure he had less experience than me. I also got first turn too. I thought to myself, awesome, maybe I can actually win a game. Nope. He seized initiative and deep struck two drop pods right in front of my razorback parking lot. Eventually he destroyed 1800pts of my army but on the 3rd turn the Terrain Objectives was the scoring scenerio. I did manage to kill some of his scoring units so he could only claim one terrain objective. But it was just horrible.
It was a Minor Loss (should have been a massacre)

With only 11 total points I'm pretty sure I was dead last place for the day. I left before results were announced, I was so embarrassed and in shock.

All in all this was the worst gaming experience I've ever had, ever (no fault to organizers or people I played). It was all me. Every aspect that could have gone wrong, did go wrong (Rolling, My army list, who I went against per scenerio, My lack of experience to all armies I played). I clearly did not belong there that day and should have never showed up. At least the 4th place person in my store's Prelims could have done more damage...

I guess God said I had a peice of humble pie coming heheh

At Crossroads games in Maine, the order was

1 Salamanders (mostly tac squads in rhinos)
2-3 - not sure to be honest - I think Grey Knights and Dark Eldar.

Out of 24 players, not much variety. 1 Blood Angel, 1 Dark Angel, 1 Necron, 1 Daemon, 1 Eldar, 1 Loganwing, 1 Dark Eldar. A few space wolves, about 12 Grey Knights, no tyranids, tau, or IG!

I had the most points going into round 3, then choked. I'm reasonably proud of the fact that the only games I've ever lost in 'ardboyz semis have been to the overall winners.

kestral wrote:At Crossroads games in Maine, the order was

1 Salamanders (mostly tac squads in rhinos)
2-3 - not sure to be honest - I think Grey Knights and Dark Eldar.

Out of 24 players, not much variety. 1 Blood Angel, 1 Dark Angel, 1 Necron, 1 Daemon, 1 Eldar, 1 Loganwing, 1 Dark Eldar. A few space wolves, about 12 Grey Knights, no tyranids, tau, or IG!

I had the most points going into round 3, then choked. I'm reasonably proud of the fact that the only games I've ever lost in 'ardboyz semis have been to the overall winners.

lol holy crap 12 grey knights out of 24 players. That makes for a long day for that one daemon player. Wonder how many grey knights there will be at the finals. Anyone calling 50%?

i don't know...I think DE will be making a big showing at finals, but GK will have a lot

@Hulk
Purifier Spam can make the game damn near unplayable for some armies, like Hordes.

Phil Kelly should write EVERY book. Good fluff, good rules. He sometimes puts a unit in that is too good (long fangs, super falcons and dakka/sniper fexes from last edition) but he has gotten better. Dark Eldar is a fething masterpiece, IMO.

Cruddace struck out with Bugs and Sisters, but IG is great. Vendettas are too cheap, but other than that, it is an awesome book.

Ward is 1.5 for 5.

He's the weakest link!

Lol, I think the regular SM book is still good. I think BA's are pretty fun and sweet army to play with lots of options. I think that GK's are the same thing. What other 40k books has he been a part of? Honestly Phil Kelly should write all xenos and Ward should write all meq and everything would be fine but that's just my personal opinion. Though someone would need to write the fluff for Ward I think so far it's Cruddace that is the weakest link but I'm willing to give him one more shot since he doesn't seem to be to involved with most books in 5th.

I disagree that Purifier spam can make the game unplayable. I further disagree that because a single build type is hurt by a single build type that the codex breaks the game. Has the book changed the way I built my lists? Sure, but doesn't every book? Oh well, everyone has their opinion

Ward wrote:

7th ed orcs and gobos in fantasy, which still lost at tournaments with 500 more points than anyone else.

Daemons, which won tournaments with 500 less points than any other army. Meaning, even with a 1,000pt differential, O&G, a book HE wrote, still couldn't beat Daemons....

He wrote 8th Ed Fantasy. The sales figures tell that story.

He wrote 5th ed Marines which is the best codex written to date, IMO.

He wrote BA, which on it's own is a good book, but has so many buffs built in over regular marines with few to no draw backs it smacks of obvious power increase to sell models. I give half credit for this one!

He wrote Grey Knights, which has some stupidly overpowered units/abilities/powers/etc.

I guess that means he is 1.5 for 6, even worse!

Grey Knights have too many buffs that are potentially game winning on their own. It's like having multiple Lash of Submissions in the book.

Fortitude. AMAZING power.....for 5 points. 3 times as good as extra armor (ignore stunned, shaken and psyker defense) for 5 points. Stupid.

The grenades. All of them. Working even when they get charged....stupid.

Psybolt ammo costing 5 points.....stupid.

Cleansing flame, stupid.

Warp Quake. Game breaking.

Henchmen, so undercosted as to be ridiculous. Again, stupid.

And the list goes on.

The book has too much stuff that is too good against too many armies. I really feel it is sloppy design intended to sell models. Bad form. If they had toned down the power level of the army just a bit, the game would have been better for it.

Everyone is of course entitled to their opinions. I just feel that Mr. Ward is guilty of writing bad material, more so than the other creators.

Can we take the Ward hate to another thread and keep talking about Semis results?

pretre wrote:Can we take the Ward hate to another thread and keep talking about Semis results?

I agree

pretre wrote:Can we take the Ward hate to another thread and keep talking about Semis results?

This...I want to see how many people made it with "subpar" armies and how many played with lemming mentality and went with 1 of three different lists ...just kidding. I just wanna know

pretre wrote:Can we take the Ward hate to another thread and keep talking about Semis results?

Haha, fair enough!

In Norcal, mine was probably the most "net list" of the three qualifiers but it is still not a common build by any means.
second was a Leman Russ heavy IG army, which was cool.
3rd was Battlewagon Orks. The internet says Orks are bad, which baffles me considering they consistently do well in tournaments, so whether or not this is a "subpar" list depends on who looks at it.
4th was Janthkin and his bugs.

I played Footdar for all the marbles game 3, he had 30 wraithguard! He went through really tough Grey Knight armies played by very good players to get there, too.

In SoCal, it was hybrid foot/mech Eldar tied for the win with Templars. And Battlewagon Orks in 4th.

So yeah, in Cali, of all the top finishers, there is ONE army that the internet might consider good...and I use Bjorn and a bunch of dreads which the internet says are bad. Call it a wash then I guess.

Go figure!

It really is about the player. The same guys keep winning, with different armies. Skill is more important than list building, and then you have to consider match-ups, luck, missions, and terrain as well as the list. It is fun though to crunch the data afterwords, and since we can't really quantify skill, terrain or match-ups and missions without more data, we look at lists.

Reecius wrote:It really is about the player. The same guys keep winning, with different armies. Skill is more important than list building, and then you have to consider match-ups, luck, missions, and terrain as well as the list. It is fun though to crunch the data afterwords, and since we can't really quantify skill, terrain or match-ups and missions without more data, we look at lists.

Wait, so the internet might be wrong? My world is asploding!

I feel like I should have gone Bjorn instead of Njal with my list. Didn't play a single GK. Dammit.

Alright so I went through the entire thread and didnt' see a single Necron or Tau. I think all the other books had at least one in a top 3 somewhere

@Reece BW Orks took also took the third spot down here (I believe he had 5 wagons).

It sucked I took a full wagon of burnas and played IG alpha strike armys twice (huge waste of points).

Warmaster wrote:Alright so I went through the entire thread and didnt' see a single Necron or Tau. I think all the other books had at least one in a top 3 somewhere

I dont think any nids made it and did any daemons survive the grey knight horde's? lol


Last matt ward comment: Only matt ward could make the most elite army in the universe out number the most numerous armies. For some reason the entire chapter shows up for every battle.

I think a Daemon guy won a page or so back.

ToI wrote:next to nothing of my army was painted for ard boyz, but I made a point of painting stripes of unique colors on all the bases to designate squads. You played a douche...nothing more. Don't lump everyone together in the unpainted army category as a cheater. While you are are right that the number of cheaters in a larger group with the same % make up would be higher you can't just throw that around...generalizing like that doesn't get most people very far.

You are something of an exception to the rule when it comes to unit differentiation. Most people who do not paint their armies do almost nothing to differentiate units, and that has been a problem for me on occasion. Also, nowhere did I say that not painting = cheating. I merely said that events that lack painting scores generally cater to crowds that have a higher percentage of people who exhibit shady behavior. There is something of a correlation between people who play WAAC lists and tactics, and lazyness in other areas such as painting. From my own personal experience (which has no bearing on anything, but I figure I'll share it anyway), the biggest power gamers with the worst sportsmanship are almost always the ones with completely unpainted armies or bare minimum paintjobs. Additionally, some of my best games tend to be against people fielding lists that are fully painted, or are in the process of being painted. It's not that I haven't had good games against players who don't paint, or vice versa (in fact one of my best friends is an excellent players with great sportsmanship, but he is super lazy and doesn't like painting......I'm considering painting his army for him.......), but the numbers skew heavily the other direction, at least from my own personal experiences.

I did not mean to make sweeping generalizations. I simply meant to point out that it's a trend I see.

The tally.


Grey Knights 24
Imperial Guard 12
Space Wolves 9
Blood Angels 8
Space Marines 7
Orks 6
Dark Eldar 6
Eldar 3
Witch Hunters 2
Tyranids 2
Dark Angels 2
Black Templars 2
Chaos Space Marines 1
Chaos Demons 1

Dave_Fay wrote:The tally.

Played or top 3? And source?

Placed in the top 3.

Source this thread.


Army Placing Location
Grey Knights 1 AL
Eldar 2 AL
Grey Knights 3 AL
Blood Angels 1 TX
Grey Knights 2 TX
Blood Angels 3 TX
Black Templars 1 TX
Grey Knights 2 TX
Grey Knights 3 TX
Imperial Guard 1 NE
Grey Knights 2 NE
Blood Angels 3 NE
Eldar 1 CA
Black Templars 2 CA
Orks 3 CA
Grey Knights 1 IL
Space Wolves 2 IL
Grey Knights 3 IL
Dark Eldar 1 MN
Grey Knights 2 MN
Grey Knights 3 MN
Space Wolves 1 CA
Imperial Guard 2 CA
Orks 3 CA
Imperial Guard 1 OR
Witch Hunters 2 OR
Dark Angels 3 OR
Space Wolves 1 AZ
Dark Eldar 2 AZ
Grey Knights 3 AZ
Grey Knights 1 TX
Blood Angels 2 TX
Space Wolves 3 TX
Dark Angels 1 AR
Imperial Guard 2 AR
Space Wolves 3 AR
Grey Knights 1 ?
Grey Knights 2 ?
Chaos Space Marines 3 ?
Imperial Guard 1 PA
Space Wolves 2 PA
Imperial Guard 3 PA
Tyranids 1 NJ
Dark Eldar 2 NJ
Blood Angels 3 NJ
Chaos Demons 1 MI
Grey Knights 2 MI
Grey Knights 3 MI
Space Marines 1 MA
Imperial Guard 2 MA
Imperial Guard 3 MA
Orks 1 PA
Space Wolves 2 PA
Space Marines 3 PA
Blood Angels 1 VA
Grey Knights 2 VA
Imperial Guard 3 VA
Eldar 1 NY
Space Marines 2 NY
Imperial Guard 3 NY
Space Marines 1 ME
Grey Knights 2 ME
Grey Knights 3 ME
Dark Eldar 1 TN
Orks 2 TN
Space Marines 3 TN
Grey Knights 1 FL
Blood Angels 1 WI
Grey Knights 2 WI
Imperial Guard 3 WI
Grey Knights 1 OH
Grey Knights 2 OH
Witch Hunters 3 OH
Orks 1 FL
Space Wolves 2 FL
Tyranids 3 FL
Orks 1 IN
Space Wolves 2 IN
Imperial Guard 3 IN
Dark Eldar 1 IL
Dark Eldar 2 IL
Grey Knights 3 IL
Space Marines 1 ?
Blood Angels 2 ?
Space Marines 3 ?

@Dave_Fay: Thanks for doing the grunt work then.

C: WH gave one last shot at glory and did pretty well!

I know it is practically impossible, but I'd like to see winning armies vs fielded armies to see what % of X army won. Oh well. Still good data!

Gamer's Haven, ID

1st Dark Eldar
2nd IG
3rd IG

Jacksonville, AR had no grey knights armys at all and there was atleast 20 players there.

Reecius wrote:

That is true. And I am one of them! The reason being is that this book can break the game. Litterally it can make the game unplayable. That is bad game design and whag appears to be, to me, blatantly putting sales ahead of the good of the game. That is something that deserves to be pointed out and made a fuss about as hopefully, gamesworkshop sees we won't stand for it and writes better, more balanced rules.

As for people who play the army, they're free to do what they want. as long as a player's list is legal, I will never make a negative remark about the content of tbeir list.

Emphasis mine

Dave_Fay wrote:The tally.


Grey Knights 50
Imperial Guard 27
Space Wolves 18
Blood Angels 16
Space Marines 14
Orks 11
Dark Eldar 9
Witch Hunters 5
Tyranids 4
Dark Angels 4
Eldar 4
Chaos Space Marines 3
Black Templars 3
Chaos Demons 1

Again, emphasis mine.

Looks like GW will be laughing all the way to the bank...

Dave_Fay wrote:The tally.


Grey Knights 50
Imperial Guard 27
Space Wolves 18
Blood Angels 16
Space Marines 14
Orks 11
Dark Eldar 9
Witch Hunters 5
Tyranids 4
Dark Angels 4
Eldar 4
Chaos Space Marines 3
Black Templars 3
Chaos Demons 1

Sorry, it must be said.

FU Mat Ward!!

50 Grey Knights!?!?!

I hope that is relative to the amount of armies brought to the tournament and more indicative of their popularity than power, but my gut says no.

Maybe it all started with Cruddace making IG so good.

I don't know.

But something stinks!

Literally upon my first look through the GK codex I was like, no F'ing way. This is over the top.

So, finals. Make an Army to cruch the Knights and you have good odds! Haha. Assuming of course we don't have completely crazy missions.

Codex Release Date
Sisters of Battle - Sept-11 (Not legal for 'AB)
Grey Knights - April-11
Dark Eldar - Nov-10
Blood Angels - Apr-10
Tyranids - Jan-10
Space Wolves - Oct-09
Imperial Guard - May-09
Space Marines - Oct-08

Weird, the newest book had a lot of players at 'AB? No way, that has never happened before.

@Ozzy
I agree, they are cashing in big on Grey Knights.

But, every time they pull this gak, they lose long term customers and open the door to their competition to come in and color themselves as the "good guys" of gaming and taking market share.

I won in pittsburgh with Battlewagon orks (four wagons, full nob squad, ghaz, mek, two trukk boys, 20 lootas and three deffkoptas), but a lot of that had to do with my opponents not quite knowing what I can do on turn two...

I wish I could say it was skill, but I got lucky in my games: eldrad got pinned after his serpent exploded, I won the first turn roll against both leafblower and DE (with baron!), and had a great first shooting turn against DE (four downed vehicles).

Polonius wrote:I won in pittsburgh with Battlewagon orks (four wagons, full nob squad, ghaz, mek, two trukk boys, 20 lootas and three deffkoptas), but a lot of that had to do with my opponents not quite knowing what I can do on turn two...

I wish I could say it was skill, but I got lucky in my games: eldrad got pinned after his serpent exploded, I won the first turn roll against both leafblower and DE (with baron!), and had a great first shooting turn against DE (four downed vehicles).

I was fairly surprised also! You did well tho.. However, I will say your opponents have basically never played against Orks it felt like. The Eldar player used divination to make it easier for you.. Easiest way to beat battle wagons is flank on multiple sides to get side shots.. instead he just pilled up infront of you.

Anyone know what third place was at Norfolk? First was BA and I was 2nd with my IG, but I didn't catch who took third.

You've got this list a bit wrong. There was only 1 event held in Maine. I posted then somebody else posted. It went Salamander, GK, GK. Thanks.

Edit : removed the quote, I'm a tool, misread it.

Hmm I see only three listings for Maine

ME = Miane
Space Marines
Grey Knights
Grey Knights

Tomb King wrote:

isanti13 wrote:

Tomb King wrote:I think grey knights might negatively effect the hobby. So many of them and there numbers ever growing it might drive players to put down their armies for a little bit as it can get real boring playing against the same army at every tournament.

You were playing leafblower IG... Pot calling the kettle black much?

lol, I only had 1 leman russ and 1 manticore, no artillery pieces, and no infantry platoons. You should look up leafblower IG. My list was of my own design. I will post it later when i post my battle reports. Also hate to break it to you the original leaf blower list isn't even the top list anymore or even possible given the removal of allies.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/09/40k-ard-boys-armylist-leafblower.html

Agreed, leafblower is dead. At least according to the original design.

Tomb King wrote:
I dont think any nids made it and did any daemons survive the grey knight horde's? lol

Daemons went from having a bunch of legitimate tournament builds to having, as far as I can tell, essentially two and a half. By legitimate, I mean builds that can hold their own and win against all comers as long as the dice doesn't go ridiculously against them. The two that I'm thinking of simply weren't all that common, previously.

Which sucks (since my bloodcrushers have largely been relegated to the display shelf, and even my soul grinders haven't seen the tabletop in ages).

It also doesn't help that what I'd consider to be legitimate tournament Daemon builds require large numbers of models that either don't exist or are finecast.

Kirasu wrote:

Polonius wrote:I won in pittsburgh with Battlewagon orks (four wagons, full nob squad, ghaz, mek, two trukk boys, 20 lootas and three deffkoptas), but a lot of that had to do with my opponents not quite knowing what I can do on turn two...

I wish I could say it was skill, but I got lucky in my games: eldrad got pinned after his serpent exploded, I won the first turn roll against both leafblower and DE (with baron!), and had a great first shooting turn against DE (four downed vehicles).

I was fairly surprised also! You did well tho.. However, I will say your opponents have basically never played against Orks it felt like. The Eldar player used divination to make it easier for you.. Easiest way to beat battle wagons is flank on multiple sides to get side shots.. instead he just pilled up infront of you.

To an extent I agree... but he was very psyched out by my Deff Koptas. I dont' know why, since he had first turn, but those were the first and main target, followed by my lootas.

Still, Koptas have to be dealt with...

FeindusMaximus wrote:Ard boys made me lose my desire to play this game

Just remember its designed to be a "nasty" tourney. Going into it, you should have had the grain of salt already. Otherwise, thats to bad you had a bad experience.

It must be me or I'm misinterpreting the data on the placement list. I only see 2 Witch Hunters (OR and OH). They placed 2nd and 3rd but the list shows 5 placings.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:It must be me or I'm misinterpreting the data on the placement list. I only see 2 Witch Hunters (OR and OH). They placed 2nd and 3rd but the list shows 5 placings.

Gah I need more coffee, good catch.

I made a mistake in my pivot table and did sum of placing instead of count of placing.

Here is the correct tally.


Grey Knights 24
Imperial Guard 12
Space Wolves 9
Blood Angels 8
Space Marines 7
Orks 6
Dark Eldar 6
Eldar 3
Witch Hunters 2
Tyranids 2
Dark Angels 2
Black Templars 2
Chaos Space Marines 1
Chaos Demons 1

There were alot of IG coming out of the woodworks that I havnt seen in awhile as well as a good amount placing. I assume it has to do with all the troops required for the missions.

Grimgob wrote:There were alot of IG coming out of the woodworks that I havnt seen in awhile as well as a good amount placing. I assume it has to do with all the troops required for the missions.

Well, maybe it was also a response to some GK builds? I know I have yet to lose to GK since the new 'dex hit, so maybe that might also be a factor. I could just be wrong, though.

Byte wrote:

Agreed, leafblower is dead. At least according to the original design.

As others pointed out, the "original" leafblower list wasn't really optimized to begin with. Darkwynn having gone first in all 9 of his 'Ard Boyz games had a lot to do with him winning. That's not a knock to his skill as a player, however it's worth pointing out that taking an army that relies on going first, getting to go first every single time you play, and then performing well doesn't tell us very much.

There is a popular blog author that says that the Grey Knights aren't competitive because they lack melta.

Wasnt that a go to argument against Orks as being competitive also?

Danny Internets wrote:

Byte wrote:

Agreed, leafblower is dead. At least according to the original design.

As others pointed out, the "original" leafblower list wasn't really optimized to begin with. Darkwynn having gone first in all 9 of his 'Ard Boyz games had a lot to do with him winning. That's not a knock to his skill as a player, however it's worth pointing out that taking an army that relies on going first, getting to go first every single time you play, and then performing well doesn't tell us very much.

I swear people are starting to say things just to annoy the crap out of me? Did you not see me point out in this same thread like twice already that the post on Bols is not the orginal leafblower and I don't know who your source was but I never went 9 times first in Ard boys to win all my games. Its been what two years now and people are still talking about that slowed list? I also won what 4 other events around the country with the same list!

The list for hundreds times didn't need to go first and if you think it did you have a novice understanding of 40k at best.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Blackmoor wrote:There is a popular blog author that says that the Grey Knights aren't competitive because they lack melta.

When did his ideas ever hold water though Allan?

Nick, I think you've been caught by the famous Hernandez sarcasm

Centurian99 wrote:Nick, I think you've been caught by the famous Hernandez sarcasm

I think I was more caught by nerdrage then anything else and didn't realize it

Darkwynn wrote:

Centurian99 wrote:Nick, I think you've been caught by the famous Hernandez sarcasm

I think I was more caught by nerdrage then anything else and didn't realize it

I am not sure who Allan was referring to but it caught me as well...

edit: grammar fail

Darkwynn wrote:

Danny Internets wrote:

Byte wrote:

Agreed, leafblower is dead. At least according to the original design.

As others pointed out, the "original" leafblower list wasn't really optimized to begin with. Darkwynn having gone first in all 9 of his 'Ard Boyz games had a lot to do with him winning. That's not a knock to his skill as a player, however it's worth pointing out that taking an army that relies on going first, getting to go first every single time you play, and then performing well doesn't tell us very much.

I swear people are starting to say things just to annoy the crap out of me? Did you not see me point out in this same thread like twice already that the post on Bols is not the orginal leafblower and I don't know who your source was but I never went 9 times first in Ard boys to win all my games. Its been what two years now and people are still talking about that slowed list? I also won what 4 other events around the country with the same list!

The list for hundreds times didn't need to go first and if you think it did you have a novice understanding of 40k at best.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Blackmoor wrote:There is a popular blog author that says that the Grey Knights aren't competitive because they lack melta.

When did his ideas ever hold water though Allan?

Understood that the "List" wasn't "the list", not trying to annoy. Nothing but respect.

However, Having ran the "not list" list with considerable success it can't go without mentioning the losing the INQ ally changes one of the most dynamic aspects(most appealing to me) of the "not list". I've mowed down down pod armies. Didn't even use the grass catcher.

Byte wrote:

Tomb King wrote:

isanti13 wrote:

Tomb King wrote:I think grey knights might negatively effect the hobby. So many of them and there numbers ever growing it might drive players to put down their armies for a little bit as it can get real boring playing against the same army at every tournament.

You were playing leafblower IG... Pot calling the kettle black much?

lol, I only had 1 leman russ and 1 manticore, no artillery pieces, and no infantry platoons. You should look up leafblower IG. My list was of my own design. I will post it later when i post my battle reports. Also hate to break it to you the original leaf blower list isn't even the top list anymore or even possible given the removal of allies.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/09/40k-ard-boys-armylist-leafblower.html

Agreed, leafblower is dead. At least according to the original design.

And sadly I lied, I wont be posting my list after some talk with some buddies and some consideration of the current meta. I dont want another leaf blower incident happen where everyone tried to copy that list. So my list will just formally be known as the 51st Cadian Mechanized Battalion lead by a guy I like to call Officer Creed, not to be mistaken for Commander Creed. Fluff wise Creed before he became the big boss. Have a bald model that looks kind of like him but younger and without the scars.

Tomb King wrote:

Byte wrote:

Tomb King wrote:

isanti13 wrote:

Tomb King wrote:I think grey knights might negatively effect the hobby. So many of them and there numbers ever growing it might drive players to put down their armies for a little bit as it can get real boring playing against the same army at every tournament.

You were playing leafblower IG... Pot calling the kettle black much?

lol, I only had 1 leman russ and 1 manticore, no artillery pieces, and no infantry platoons. You should look up leafblower IG. My list was of my own design. I will post it later when i post my battle reports. Also hate to break it to you the original leaf blower list isn't even the top list anymore or even possible given the removal of allies.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/09/40k-ard-boys-armylist-leafblower.html

Agreed, leafblower is dead. At least according to the original design.

And sadly I lied, I wont be posting my list after some talk with some buddies and some consideration of the current meta. I dont want another leaf blower incident happen where everyone tried to copy that list. So my list will just formally be known as the 51st Cadian Mechanized Battalion lead by a guy I like to call Officer Creed, not to be mistaken for Commander Creed. Fluff wise Creed before he became the big boss. Have a bald model that looks kind of like him but younger and without the scars.

I believe I know the model and have two! Does it have a cigar?

Grimgob wrote:Wasnt that a go to argument against Orks as being competitive also?

I thought they weren't competitive because everyone could just move their vehicles out of the way of the deffrollas? In fact, I think all of my dead chimeras under your rollas are proof of that.... no, wait sorry, it's the other thing...

Byte wrote:

Tomb King wrote:

Byte wrote:

Tomb King wrote:

isanti13 wrote:

Tomb King wrote:I think grey knights might negatively effect the hobby. So many of them and there numbers ever growing it might drive players to put down their armies for a little bit as it can get real boring playing against the same army at every tournament.

You were playing leafblower IG... Pot calling the kettle black much?

lol, I only had 1 leman russ and 1 manticore, no artillery pieces, and no infantry platoons. You should look up leafblower IG. My list was of my own design. I will post it later when i post my battle reports. Also hate to break it to you the original leaf blower list isn't even the top list anymore or even possible given the removal of allies.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/09/40k-ard-boys-armylist-leafblower.html

Agreed, leafblower is dead. At least according to the original design.

And sadly I lied, I wont be posting my list after some talk with some buddies and some consideration of the current meta. I dont want another leaf blower incident happen where everyone tried to copy that list. So my list will just formally be known as the 51st Cadian Mechanized Battalion lead by a guy I like to call Officer Creed, not to be mistaken for Commander Creed. Fluff wise Creed before he became the big boss. Have a bald model that looks kind of like him but younger and without the scars.

I believe I know the model and have two! Does it have a cigar?

No, the model itself is actually crouching as well. Its different to say the least, I am not sure where the head came from. As for the cigar heads. lol those all are with my flamers. The BBQ Brigade(1 unit but brigade just sounds better) is what I call them when I field them.

Grimgob wrote:Wasnt that a go to argument against Orks as being competitive also?

Best argument i've heard for battlewagon orks being uncompetitive: "all you have to do is blow up the battlewagons!" Hahahaha, oh man, that killed me. Right, just blow up 3-5 av14 vehicles with a 4+ in 1 to 2 turns. No problem!

Anyone who still reads certain blogs and believes them, desrves to get beat. Good players win with lists they fine tune themselves. The internet is a resource for gathering data. Experience, skill amd luck wins games.

I really dont think orks are competitive. Thats my opinion though. Once you learn how to beat them, their scare factor goes away.

Julnlecs wrote:I really dont think orks are competitive. Thats my opinion though. Once you learn how to beat them, their scare factor goes away.

This happens with any army though. I have zero fear for daemons and havent lost to them in over a year. (WITHOUT GK lol) I was just brought into the game by a daemon player and he loves fate crusher a really mean list but I just annihilate it now and any other daemon build because I have seen it all and pretty much know that codex better then mine almost.

Julnlecs wrote:I really dont think orks are competitive. Thats my opinion though. Once you learn how to beat them, their scare factor goes away.

Isn't that true of any army. They all seem scary until you know how they work. Some will take more effort to beat than others, but you shouldn't be scared. In fact, if you are scared of toy soldiers, them being competitive is the least of your concerns

In all seriousness though, if an army remaining surprising/scary after multiple encounters is the benchmark for being competitive, then no army in the game is.

Tomb King wrote:

Julnlecs wrote:I really dont think orks are competitive. Thats my opinion though. Once you learn how to beat them, their scare factor goes away.

This happens with any army though. I have zero fear for daemons and havent lost to them in over a year. (WITHOUT GK lol) I was just brought into the game by a daemon player and he loves fate crusher a really mean list but I just annihilate it now and any other daemon build because I have seen it all and pretty much know that codex better then mine almost.

Yes but yet again, your also talking about a codex that has trouble winning. I see Tau, Eldar, Chaos, Orks and Necrons that once you know how to beat them, they have a zero fear factor when you see them across the table from you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Let me just rephrase and say that I have an easier time winning against those armies than the rest.

Julnlecs wrote:

Tomb King wrote:

Julnlecs wrote:I really dont think orks are competitive. Thats my opinion though. Once you learn how to beat them, their scare factor goes away.

This happens with any army though. I have zero fear for daemons and havent lost to them in over a year. (WITHOUT GK lol) I was just brought into the game by a daemon player and he loves fate crusher a really mean list but I just annihilate it now and any other daemon build because I have seen it all and pretty much know that codex better then mine almost.

Yes but yet again, your also talking about a codex that has trouble winning. I see Tau, Eldar, Chaos, Orks and Necrons that once you know how to beat them, they have a zero fear factor when you see them across the table from you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Let me just rephrase and say that I have an easier time winning against those armies than the rest.

I have never lost with Tau. I have beat Daemons, Vulcan Marines, World Eaters. In addition, with the emerging amount of GK players Tau actually have come up some in the competitive column. Tau can destroy some top grey knight builds with regularity. I saw a tau army board wipe a very strong grey knights army this weekend. It was crazy!

Orks are top tier. Fearing an army or not is a sign of experience, as others have said. That doesn't mean they aren't good. I fear no army or list, as most experienced players don't, I see better or worse match ups. Dice, and other variables, are such a big factor that you can always find a way to win of the dice fall your way.

Tomb King wrote:I have never lost with Tau. I have beat Daemons, Vulcan Marines, World Eaters. In addition, with the emerging amount of GK players Tau actually have come up some in the competitive column. Tau can destroy some top grey knight builds with regularity. I saw a tau army board wipe a very strong grey knights army this weekend. It was crazy!

IMO Tau actually have a strong advantage against most GK lists. Psyflemen are underwhelming against Broadsides and Hammerheads, both offensively and defensively, and without that crutch most GK armies don't pack enough long-range shooting to do well against Tau.

Plus pathfinders taking away cover saves with railguns tearing things up really makes the psyrifle dread spam or shrouding/stormraven tactics void. Not to mention a few rounds of nice plasma shooting with pathfinder support will wipe a GK squad a turn or more so yes, Tau are actually really good it is just that not many good players are playing Tau these days. Now that I think of it, I kind of wish I chose Tau for my army haha... I miss my old army but I sold it because I liked close combat too much.

Oh, melta is what I was missing??? Darn, I knew it was something!

Anyone know the guy that made it with Witch Hunters in OR? I would really like to say hi and see what list he was running. Us last vestiges of the Witch Hunters need to stick together. I'm really debating if I will take them to the finals as I have an up hill battle in kill point missions, also I'm a little tired of 53 point Rhinos with smoke. On the flip side I love my Callidus Assassin to death.

From someone who played the C:WH in OR, here was his list (the guy said this was from memory):

two kitted-out cannonesses

elite inquisitor with hood
callidus assasin

5 battle sister squads, 3 with 2x melta and the other 2 had flamers and books
IG Infantry platoon
5 infantry squads with mortars and chimeras
PCS with 2x melta and heavy flamer and chimera

Dominion squad with 4 flamers and immolator

3 exorcists

Exorcist probably own Grey knights! D6 S8 Ap1 for the win!

Wow I'm surprised with the amount of IG players doing well in the semis. I think aside from KP missions, IG is still pretty formidable in competitive plays. Against other shooty armies(especially in KP), its very critical that IG get the first turn alpha strike.

Blackmoor wrote:There is a popular blog author that says that the Grey Knights aren't competitive because they lack melta.

Didnt you beat said blog author? I think that kinda invalidates that argument.

Orks have proven you don't need melta if you can have reliably hit vehicles with enough other high strength weapons

Gks have TL s8 auto cannons which are pretty scary vs almost all vehicles. Yes they dont do so hot against land raiders but luckily LRs arent very common due to the melta spam from OTHER lists. Get side shots vs other vehicles and spam them with S7 rending and S8 shots

It's all about how armies push and pull against each other during a tournament that dictate how they do. One popular army forces you to adjust, and that adjustment makes another army more competitive (or less). I've never had any issues with my GK lists (Granted I find them horribly boring and mind numbing)

thehod wrote:

Blackmoor wrote:There is a popular blog author that says that the Grey Knights aren't competitive because they lack melta.

Didnt you beat said blog author? I think that kinda invalidates that argument.

SonsofVulkan wrote:Wow I'm surprised with the amount of IG players doing well in the semis. I think aside from KP missions, IG is still pretty formidable in competitive plays. Against other shooty armies(especially in KP), its very critical that IG get the first turn alpha strike.

There were no kill point missions so people brought their IG more. Again I disagree with IG needing the first turn. A good IG player doesnt need to go first to beat there opponent. I literally built my list to go second lol.

Kirasu wrote:
I've never had any issues with my GK lists (Granted I find them horribly boring and mind numbing)

My main beef with grey knights. This is only made worse because there are sometimes 10 of the same boring list. I have grey knights but I didnt bring them for a multitude of reasons. I probably wont take them to the finals either unless the missions screw my other two armies.

I agree with the comment on going second - often times, I prefer this. It is advantageous many times to let the opponent set-up first, thus going second to maximize your own deployment and lanes of fire.

In fact, I think I went second all three games, the third game I had the initiative stolen, even. Still Massacred the opponent, so I think its a serious misconception to this Guard need to go first.

SonsofVulkan wrote:Wow I'm surprised with the amount of IG players doing well in the semis. I think aside from KP missions, IG is still pretty formidable in competitive plays. Against other shooty armies(especially in KP), its very critical that IG get the first turn alpha strike.

You're surprised? Semi's were practically made for IG, even I considered getting mine out of the closet for it.

-No DOW, which can be a real pain for IG/more stationary mech IG builds
-2x pitched battle
-No kp mission, except for a 1/3rd chance in the last round
-No kooky rules, whacky deployments, increased kp for transports, etc like we've seen in the past

was 2ed out of 48 players. 71/72points first has 71 too. he had 200more VP then me tho. was playing mech IG, first was playing GK PF spam with dreads.

game 1 vs IG
game 2 vs nids
game 3 vs GK storm

had a very good time tho this year and im going to go to the 3ed round in las vages if there holding it there this year too.

Julnlecs, are you equating FearFactor with Competitiveness (competitive as in can win at AB & GTs)? If so, then my post is relevant, if you're just talking about FearFactor, then just ignore the rest.

Julnlecs wrote:Yes but yet again, you're also talking about a codex that has trouble winning. I see Tau, Eldar, Chaos, Orks and Necrons that once you know how to beat them, they have a zero fear factor when you see them across the table from you.

Out of 41 players in round 2, in Southern Calif, it was mixed eldar that took first place, by a hair over BTs. Orks 3rd & Grimjob's Orks came in 4th. 41 players from a major megalopolis (Los Angeles), so it was very cut-throat, top-notch guys at the top tables.

After watching *that* AB, I pretty much no longer consider that 'weak' codexes really exist. ... okay Tau ( that's a wink at you Tomb King, complimentarily so), but in the hands of a capable player/general, the book doesn't matter.

DashofPepper has a reasonably documented run with Necrons this year. Yes, necrons. I don't think it matters which book he plays. He's good. Same goes for his buddy Hulksmash, who plays several armies in RTTs.

It's the general that makes for competition, not the book.

Edit:
Julnlecs, I just read in another thread that you were planning on being at Game Empire ... so if you were there, then you already know that Eldar won, BTs came in 2nd, etc. Which BA razor spam were you (I kindly ask) ?

Tomb King wrote:Exorcist probably own Grey knights! D6 S8 Ap1 for the win!

They would be, but in my game against WH I negated all three first turn. Thankfully.

I think I only lost one Exorcist the through all three games. There was too much other stuff running at them. 60 Sisters as troops with 6 meltas and 3 flamers and 3 heavy flamers that rend tend to get a lot of attention. Not to mention cover saves and keeping out of the range of most things that can touch me back.

Zerib wrote:I think I only lost one Exorcist the through all three games. There was too much other stuff running at them. 60 Sisters as troops with 6 meltas and 3 flamers and 3 heavy flamers that rend tend to get a lot of attention. Not to mention cover saves and keeping out of the range of most things that can touch me back.

Meltas were my second priority. Let my dreadnaughts and stormravens deal with the exorcists and the psycannons opened up the transports. Was a rough fight not going to lie, but the flamers and meltas did almost no damage to me in the long run. Melta wounds that made it through went on Draigo.

I also had two Multi-Melta Immolators so that helps too.

Not sure exactly were I placed. I think it was around 5-7th. Played same place as Blackmoor so around 20ish or so competitors.

I mainly played 40k right when 3rd ed came out, and quit when 4th ed started. My main army was always DE. The new release of the DE sucked me back into the game, and I dusted off my old DE.

It's been a bit of a transition learning the new rules compared to what I was used to playing, and I'm still fine tuning my army.

I took DE with:

Vect's stats for my Archon, his Dias of Destruction, with a Court of the Archon,
2x kitted out full squads of Incubi on Raiders,
6x five man troops (w/blaster) in Venoms,
3x Ravagers

1st game: I played against BLack Templars that had 3 LR's. The first LR I immobilized the very first turn, but the other two had Blessed Hull. Damnable Blessed Hull!! First time I've gone up against that and couldn't roll a 6 when it counted. He did the smart thing and kept his troops in the LR's until his very last turn (going second). Major Loss for me.

2nd game: vs. Daemons. All I could say about that one is that I'm glad there were some other people spectating and calling him out when he played his army wrong. I'm not going to say that he was deliberately trying to cheat but he did try to take a 4+ invul save when the turns previous it was a 5+. I know pretty much nothing about Daemons so I was willing to take anything he said at his word and just play the game. The spectators managed to keep him in line though. Had to call the TO over a couple times when he questioned me on some basic rules and his army list was basic hand writing that took up 1/4 page of note paper that wasn't much better than Blackmoor's opponent with no list. (Oh, and my opponents army was nicely painted).

Still managed to table him and won Major Victory. (we played that if you tabled you opponent you won by how many scoring units you still had left on the table).


3rd game: vs Eldar. Pretty fun game. Held back and shot, keeping my opponent stuck in his back corner, then rushed in and killed his troops. Victory conditions was terrain. Won with a Massacre.

Main thing I learned in this one was my ineffectiveness against the blessed hull. Which has led me to decide to tweak my army by ditching the Court and taking Trueborn w/ Haywire grenades and 4x blasters to ride with the Archon on the Dias. They are only 4 pts less than the Court. They may not be as good in CC but I'd use them mainly as specialize tank hunters against those really tough armor I sometimes go up against.

I won on Sunday in south Florida beating SW and 2 good DE players. I know DE was second but I had to book before they announced who was 3rd.

thehod wrote:

Blackmoor wrote:There is a popular blog author that says that the Grey Knights aren't competitive because they lack melta.

Didnt you beat said blog author? I think that kinda invalidates that argument.

Actually it's better than that, he who apparently shall not be named beat himself. He was like "Yo dawg I heard you like to win on the bottom of turn 5 so even though you shouldn't be able to this time I will let you win on the bottom of turn 5 LOLez my list is nonoptimized to be making the statements".

The big advantage that GK possess isn't that they are so powerful, it is that they are very well rounded against every one. They also are a terrible match up for the most recent and very popular codex before them and hose Mech lists. So against the field they are OP even though their rules are just strong, hardly broken.

Next time you hear some nasty Troke stories remember this one. I rolled 1,1,5,5 during a recent tournament. My DCA didn't need the opponent to be initiative 1.

Darkwynn wrote:I swear people are starting to say things just to annoy the crap out of me? Did you not see me point out in this same thread like twice already that the post on Bols is not the orginal leafblower and I don't know who your source was but I never went 9 times first in Ard boys to win all my games. Its been what two years now and people are still talking about that slowed list?

If this wasn't your leafblower list used in 'Ard Boyz then why did you link to it in your battle reports of your games at 'Ard Boyz? You do so in all three battle reports that you wrote.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/09/battle-report-ard-boys-round-1.html
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/10/battle-report-ard-boys-round-2.html
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/10/battle-report-ard-boys-round-3.html

I also won what 4 other events around the country with the same list!.

Er, so it's not your list, but you've won 4 other events with the list... that isn't yours...? Which is it? And what 40k events are using a 2500 points limit other than 'Ard Boyz?

Gladiator! BOOM!! Well...I think

Gladiator is 2250 I thought.

puma713 wrote:

mortetvie wrote:
Woot! I chose Grey Knights.

Says the guy fielding mephiston...

thehod wrote:

Blackmoor wrote:There is a popular blog author that says that the Grey Knights aren't competitive because they lack melta.

Didnt you beat said blog author? I think that kinda invalidates that argument.

Wait, so if I beat someone, it totally invalidates all the stuff they said. Saweet.

That being said, how does anyone consider GK not to be competitive?

GK are fine. Are they as good as IG and SW? Not in my opinion, but they are right up there, along with Ultramarines and BA in the upper crust. The lack of competitiveness I've seen with GKs has been lists, not the potential of the codex.

As far as Ard Boyz, this was my first (last two years missed due to various conflicts) and after taking first in the prelims with my DE, I was lucky enough to have a raging cold and be hopped up on DayQuil for this round. Had two really fun games against Draigowing and Blood Angels and was still in the mix, but then I crashed and became nearly hallucinogenic for the third game, against a good IG player in what was already a bad match up (Spearhead, Kill Points). I was so out of it, I gave him first turn after winning the roll, lol. Eh, who cares, he was good enough he probably would have beaten my short-ranged list handily anyway, but I would have liked to be lucid for it. My overall impression is that DE are great at 2K and below, but run out of steam at 2500. They can't fill out the org chart as nastily as the Marine dexes and simply lack the durability at the level to dominate in a tournament requiring massacres. That's just my impression, however, and could be heavily DayQuil-tainted.

Finally starting my battle reports. Here is a link: http://frostreaver.net/forums/entry.php?84-Ard-Boyz-Semi-s-Battle-Report-%28Cadian-56th-Mechanized-Division%29 enjoy. Currently working on pictures. Will have them eventually.

Skarboy wrote:GK are fine. Are they as good as IG and SW? Not in my opinion, but they are right up there, along with Ultramarines and BA in the upper crust. The lack of competitiveness I've seen with GKs has been lists, not the potential of the codex.

GKs are top dog. They edged Wolves off of the throne in terms of pure power, without question, IMO. As you said, a lot of people play bad lists, but in terms of power level inherent to the book, they are above all others.

Reecius wrote:

Skarboy wrote:GK are fine. Are they as good as IG and SW? Not in my opinion, but they are right up there, along with Ultramarines and BA in the upper crust. The lack of competitiveness I've seen with GKs has been lists, not the potential of the codex.

GKs are top dog. They edged Wolves off of the throne in terms of pure power, without question, IMO. As you said, a lot of people play bad lists, but in terms of power level inherent to the book, they are above all others.

I agree. It's not the problem with the codex that they aren't winning yet. It's the players themselves. Most people are still into the "shiny-new-model" syndrome. They really don't know how to build a truly balanced GK army yet. That's why at my Semi-finals location, none of the 6 GK armies (except myself) did particularly well. I don't think they have a firm grasp of a truly good GK army yet.

jy2 wrote:

Reecius wrote:

Skarboy wrote:GK are fine. Are they as good as IG and SW? Not in my opinion, but they are right up there, along with Ultramarines and BA in the upper crust. The lack of competitiveness I've seen with GKs has been lists, not the potential of the codex.

GKs are top dog. They edged Wolves off of the throne in terms of pure power, without question, IMO. As you said, a lot of people play bad lists, but in terms of power level inherent to the book, they are above all others.

I agree. It's not the problem with the codex that they aren't winning yet. It's the players themselves. Most people are still into the "shiny-new-model" syndrome. They really don't know how to build a truly balanced GK army yet. That's why at my Semi-finals location, none of the 6 GK armies (except myself) did particularly well. I don't think they have a firm grasp of a truly good GK army yet.

The codex can be broken but it isnt the best around because of its inability to bring a true all comers list. It will always have an Achilles heal.

Tomb King wrote:
The codex can be broken but it isnt the best around because of its inability to bring a true all comers list. It will always have an Achilles heal.

Oh, the GK's can bring a true all-comer's list alright. And there is no such thing as an army without a weakness. Every build has got an achilles heel. That doesn't mean they can't beat their nemesis-builds. It just means they have to work a little harder to do so.

While Grey Knights may not have the AP1/2 shooting of some of the other armies, it more than makes up for this short-coming with rending psycannons, S5 power weapons in assault and S10 hammers to crack the tougher transports.

jy2 wrote:

Reecius wrote:

Skarboy wrote:GK are fine. Are they as good as IG and SW? Not in my opinion, but they are right up there, along with Ultramarines and BA in the upper crust. The lack of competitiveness I've seen with GKs has been lists, not the potential of the codex.

GKs are top dog. They edged Wolves off of the throne in terms of pure power, without question, IMO. As you said, a lot of people play bad lists, but in terms of power level inherent to the book, they are above all others.

I agree. It's not the problem with the codex that they aren't winning yet. It's the players themselves. Most people are still into the "shiny-new-model" syndrome. They really don't know how to build a truly balanced GK army yet. That's why at my Semi-finals location, none of the 6 GK armies (except myself) did particularly well. I don't think they have a firm grasp of a truly good GK army yet.

I think it's just normal for this period after a release, the majority of GK players (myself included) are still messing with the obviously powerful lists (coteaz/dreadspam + some bits and bobs). The lists are good, but they aren't up to the potential of the book. I've started recently to see some flaws in it and been leaving the box a tad, and been pleasantly surprised. I still think SW are a slightly better army, but I'm also pretty sure we haven't seen "the best" from the GK book yet.

I feel that wolves and IG are still top Bill myself, after playing both IG and wolves against multiple GK opponents and playing them a bit as well. It's close and there are certain things in their codex that are over the top, but same was said about IG and Wolves when they were new.

Tomb King wrote:Finally starting my battle reports. Here is a link: http://frostreaver.net/forums/entry.php?84-Ard-Boyz-Semi-s-Battle-Report-%28Cadian-56th-Mechanized-Division%29 enjoy. Currently working on pictures. Will have them eventually.

I know I am finally starting my battle reports but more importantly does anyone know when they will put out the information regarding the finals such as where it is located and when it will start etc... ?

Anyone know how long it takes for you to get the army of your choice? =)

And Tomb King, I read your first BR, pretty good. Only one thing though, you kind of cheated lol (not saying you did it on purpose or anything just an observation). If you embark or disembark a unit in a vehicle, that vehicle can't go faster than cruising speed "passengers may not embark onto or disembark from a fast vehicle if it has moved (or is going to move) flag out in that movement phase" is the exact rule. Page 70 in my big rulebook, its under the Fast Vehicles section under the fast transport vehicles subheading. So with that said, you shouldn't have been able to move your messenger unit up into your Vendetta and tubo boost into the opposing deployment zone =(. Only Eldar should have been able to do that with the cunning use of Star Engines or Aether sails. It's good to be Eldar!

I guess this is a rule that a lot of people overlook, much like the one that skimmers can't dodge out of a ram if it is another skimmer that is ramming =).

Timmah wrote:

thehod wrote:

Blackmoor wrote:There is a popular blog author that says that the Grey Knights aren't competitive because they lack melta.

Didnt you beat said blog author? I think that kinda invalidates that argument.

Wait, so if I beat someone, it totally invalidates all the stuff they said. Saweet.

That being said, how does anyone consider GK not to be competitive?

It depends on the argument but works for some. Well one tournament or game means nothing in terms of results but multiple tournaments across the nation and a wide spectrum of opponents will give some sort of pulse on how the army is doing. Who know what 6th edition might bring but were talking about GK competitiveness in 5th.

mortetvie wrote:Anyone know how long it takes for you to get the army of your choice? =)

And Tomb King, I read your first BR, pretty good. Only one thing though, you kind of cheated lol (not saying you did it on purpose or anything just an observation). If you embark or disembark a unit in a vehicle, that vehicle can't go faster than cruising speed "passengers may not embark onto or disembark from a fast vehicle if it has moved (or is going to move) flag out in that movement phase" is the exact rule. Page 70 in my big rulebook, its under the Fast Vehicles section under the fast transport vehicles subheading. So with that said, you shouldn't have been able to move your messenger unit up into your Vendetta and tubo boost into the opposing deployment zone =(. Only Eldar should have been able to do that with the cunning use of Star Engines or Aether sails. It's good to be Eldar!

I guess this is a rule that a lot of people overlook, much like the one that skimmers can't dodge out of a ram if it is another skimmer that is ramming =).

wow, never knew that. I am a very seasoned guard player and have never had anyone mention it before or ran into it for that matter. Guess there are not many situations where I jumped in one and then turbo boosted. My opponent even said he would of done the same move had he gone first lol so both of us must of slipped there. I am glad it didnt really effect the game overly that much had I known i could not have done it I would of just shot the dam thing and moved them in on my next turn. Ide prefer made a mistake rather then cheated as cheating derives an intent and on this occasion two veteran guard player were playing and neither of us knew it.

Viewing the rule stated: I know you cant turbo boost or move flat out and embark/disembark. I am not sure that you cant embark and then move normally. I wish I would of brought my rulebook home with me to view this further.

Tomb King wrote:
wow, never knew that. I am a very seasoned guard player and have never had anyone mention it before or ran into it for that matter. Guess there are not many situations where I jumped in one and then turbo boosted. My opponent even said he would of done the same move had he gone first lol so both of us must of slipped there. I am glad it didnt really effect the game overly that much had I known i could not have done it I would of just shot the dam thing and moved them in on my next turn. Ide prefer made a mistake rather then cheated as cheating derives an intent and on this occasion two veteran guard player were playing and neither of us knew it.

Viewing the rule stated: I know you cant turbo boost or move flat out and embark/disembark. I am not sure that you cant embark and then move normally. I wish I would of brought my rulebook home with me to view this further.

You can move and then embark or disembark and visa versa (embark/disembark then move the vehicle). And yeah, seeing as how you went first, I don't see how it could have made that huge of a difference but yeah. In my first game, my opponent put his messenger in a Chimera and I blew it up pretty fast along with the squad that was inside so I figure either most people had their messenger get to the deployment zone with little problem or they had theirs destroyed utterly.

mortetvie wrote:Anyone know how long it takes for you to get the army of your choice? =)

I was told 6 weeks from the semi's. Sometime after the finals.

I was wrong and just looked it up. mortive is correct. that is what the rule is.

Grimgob wrote:You can embark and then turbo boost. you just can't turbo boost then embark or disembark.

That is what I figured. I just didnt have my rulebook with me to disprove it . So whomever stated it, in the future choose your words better please rather then just saying you cheated either accidental or not . Thanks though for the input and if I do make a mistake I would like to be corrected as to not do it again in the future .

Grimgob wrote:I was wrong and just looked it up. mortive is correct. that is what the rule is.

Quoted for truth... hehe =)

Anyone that came in first have their armies posted on dakka?
Please link me if you do.
Thanks!

I came in first in Southern CA with my Eldar, you can follow the link in my sig for the battle reports and what army list I brought.

(http://yriel.blogspot.com/ )

Ard Boyz ROUND 2 posted: http://frostreaver.net/forums/entry.php?86-Ard-Boyz-Semi-s-Battle-Report-%28Cadian-56th-Mechanized-Division%29-Round-2

My Battlewagon orks:

Ghazkull
Big Mek with KFF
7 Lootas
7 Lootas
6 Lootas
10 Nobs, cybork, 3x Klaw, 3x Big Choppa, 3x Skorcha, Waagh banner, painboy, boss poles for optimization
Battlewagon, deffrolla, grot riggas, red paint, armor plates, stickbomb chuckka
20 Boys, 2x Big Shoota, Nob w/ Klaw and pole
20 Boys, 2x Big Shoota, Nob w/ Klaw and pole
19 Boys, 1x Big Shoota, Nob w/ Klaw and pole
12 Boys, Nob w/ Klaw and pole, Trukk
12 Boys, Nob w/ Klaw and pole, Trukk
Deff Kopta
Deff Kopta
Deff Kopta
Battlewagon, deffrolla, red paint, armor plates
Battlewagon, deffrolla, red paint, armor plates
Battlewagon, deffrolla, red paint, armor plates

The Mek could ride in the19 man mob's wagon, but without DOW that didn't happen.

Polonius wrote:My Battlewagon orks:

Ghazkull
Big Mek with KFF
7 Lootas
7 Lootas
6 Lootas
10 Nobs, cybork, 3x Klaw, 3x Big Choppa, 3x Skorcha, Waagh banner, painboy, boss poles for optimization
Battlewagon, deffrolla, grot riggas, red paint, armor plates, stickbomb chuckka
20 Boys, 2x Big Shoota, Nob w/ Klaw and pole
20 Boys, 2x Big Shoota, Nob w/ Klaw and pole
19 Boys, 1x Big Shoota, Nob w/ Klaw and pole
12 Boys, Nob w/ Klaw and pole, Trukk
12 Boys, Nob w/ Klaw and pole, Trukk
Deff Kopta
Deff Kopta
Deff Kopta
Battlewagon, deffrolla, red paint, armor plates
Battlewagon, deffrolla, red paint, armor plates
Battlewagon, deffrolla, red paint, armor plates

The Mek could ride in the19 man mob's wagon, but without DOW that didn't happen.

Orks always drive me Batty...
The last 3 Battlewagons, are bought as HS choices?
As I thought only Nobz' get BW as dedicated transports?
I really need to buy that dang codex...

and Dethrollas suck...

yeah, one dedicated BW, and three as heavies. I thought about squeezing in a fifth, but I was happier with the trukkboys and the loots.

I think GK have the potential to be more competitive then SW because they can have 18 scoring units (grand strategy) to the SW 6...

Matt ward reminds me a lot of Gavin Thorpe, none of Gavs books were balanced and hey look! He doesn't write them any more!

I wish Phil Kelley could write all the new books, DE is GOLD!

Red Corsair wrote:I think GK have the potential to be more competitive then SW because they can have 18 scoring units (grand strategy) to the SW 6...

Matt ward reminds me a lot of Gavin Thorpe, none of Gavs books were balanced and hey look! He doesn't write them any more!

I wish Phil Kelley could write all the new books, DE is GOLD!

Quoted for awesome

Anyone know where the finals are gonna be this year or the schedule or when it might be posted?

You could always check the GW web page (they've been posted for a while now) http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=&categoryId=400002a§ion=community&pIndex=3&aId=9500009&start=4&multiPageMode=true

You could also look in the appropriate thread about 'ard boyz finals location:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/398201.page


Locations at both links =).

Now for the missions and prize support...

lol I really was upset to see it in minnesotta but somehow that is closer then chicago so only a 6 hour drive from my house. If I see that there is gonna be a decent turn out and the prize support isnt horrible I will make the trip.