Well, I recently found myself in a very interesting situation. Forgive me if I am sketchy on names, as I have no desire to put anyone in hot water just to bring rumours to a forum. I have been making the aquintance of a young Brit over the past several months. Recently, we met for the first time after having talked for some time over email. As we are both huge GW fans, naturally we began talking at length about 40k. At this point my new friend dropped a certain name--Hey, do you know ---- ----? To which I replied, "Yeah, of course I've been into GW for a long time". To my surprise, the gentleman told me that the aforementioned individual was, in fact, his brother. Now, let me just say this: If you know GW the company, and who the inner circle are, and in particular which people would know about products in development, then you too would know the name. Anyway, we proceeded to discuss the future of 40k and this is what I was told. Please keep in mind that Our conversation occured last weekend and I have had a very long week and I'm writing this on a commuter train.
1) The way projects are developed has changed a lot. The process now is that anyone within the group can pitch ideas for approval. I don't know when this became the way of things.
2) Chaos legions codex. Apparently, there will be rules for fielding forces from the various traitor legions. I've heard this rumour around before. He mentioned that part of the focus will be to highlight to differences between normal marines and warped chaos marines, both in the appearance of the model and in the organizational structure of the legion. If I recall correctly, he mentioned this as the first release of 6th edition. Also of note, Apparently a pitch to release traitor guard as a codex was put forward and rejected though the person pitching it put forth a very good proposal.
3) 6th Edition. He said it is just around the corner. I think he was more specific but I don't want to compromise this information with half remembered details. I believe he mentioned 2 codexs to be released before 6th. One was Necrons and the other was either Dark Angels or Eldar. I was surprised at this. Whatever the order was (either DA or Eldar, the other will be the second book in 6th--damn it, I can't remember which one!)
3) The boxed set for 6th with be Chaos versus Dark Angels.
4) I really wanted to get news about the Tau. Heartbreakingly he said that the Tau are not even being talked about at this point. They are way out in the lineup.
Okay, that's pretty much all I remember. You're welcome.
Wow, thanks forum guy for that well reasoned post. You made that 20 minutes I spent typing that post worthwhile. And a picture of a salt pile...brilliant! You must be really clever to take a proverb like "take it with a pinch of salt" and then post a picture of a heap of salt. People will totally see how a heap of salt means the rumours are really dubious! I mean, wow dude, maybe you can replace all future posts with pictures too. Like maybe a guy putting a palm to his face , like you know, to express a state of complete disapproval. Thanks again!
AesSedai wrote:Wow, thanks forum guy for that well reasoned post. You made that 20 minutes I spent typing that post worthwhile. And a picture of a salt pile...brilliant! You must be really clever to take a proverb like "take it with a pinch of salt" and then post a picture of a heap of salt. People will totally see how a heap of salt means the rumours are really dubious! I mean, wow dude, maybe you can replace all future posts with pictures too. Like maybe a guy putting a palm to his face , like you know, to express a state of complete disapproval. Thanks again!
Thats why you don't spout off at the hole when your being chain yanked. Look at what you wrote, and how you wrote it, again.
Your TFG, with the "Specal info Hush Hush, that you pretty mutch wrote ver batem, from your.... Specal contact." That you can't name,for "Fear of getting in trouble..."
You expect any less of a response? Think next time.
To credit the pile of salt, all you're doing is rambling half facts off that you heard from a guy that you met over e-mail. This guy claims to be someone's brother who works at GW, who heard it from one of the developers.
Excuse me for no believing a word of what you've said.
The best part is you managed to type a whole few paragraphs of a rumor post, without actually releasing any relevant information we haven't heard before.
I understood. The kid is GW, and he is warning the OP that if he doesn't shut is mouth, GW's going to bury him under the world's largest pile of cocaine.
These rumours all sound plausible. that the dev team has become more dynamic is a great leap forward. Might be that some constructive criticism will make all the difference and smoothe out some of the errors before their printed. as for the chaos guard codex... i dont see it happening. As mentioned before its too close to the guard theme wise and would probably not be too popular... main concern is still what sells
6th soon? we will see... my money is on a summer release next year.
As a tau player this dissappoints me. I thought we werew closeing in on a new codex. Maybe they are not talkin about them because all the changes have already been made to the codex and models
...Great if this happens to eb true, one of the two armies I play will have a codex rendered totally useless once more with the release of a new edition? At least with the precedent set with the previous DA codex.
However as rumours of 6th edition ar rampant just now and BT, DA and eldar in theory are due an update this could be speculation through deduction. I am sure you realise the "take with a pinch of salt" applies to any rumour involving 6th edition especially after the GW clamp down on information.
Totally off topic: I PERSONALLY (emphasized to avoid the "pinch of salt" business) heard from a manager at my local games workshop today that there is a new release (not dreadfleet, I got clarification from him) coming up on I *think* saturday he said.
And he mentioned it was a permanent release, meaning that it shouldn't be like dreadfleet whereby it gets released and then never supported...
Being that this manager knows how to make sales, he could just be trying to rouse interest to make people visit the store but I have faith in his words and can't wait to find out what it is.
Interesting info, that's for sure. The thing that makes me think any of it is true is that "traitor guard was pitched but shot down" since it's often one of the things included in the wishlist-style posts that come up. Dark Angels vs. Chaos is thematically great, but I think would be a bit boring for a starter kit, as the two armies play very similar.
Nothing implausible in the rumours and mostly stuff, that someone else has posted before. Still there are a few other rumours going around, so I wait and see.
Mechanized Space Corps wrote:Totally off topic: I PERSONALLY (emphasized to avoid the "pinch of salt" business) heard from a manager at my local games workshop today that there is a new release (not dreadfleet, I got clarification from him) coming up on I *think* saturday he said.
And he mentioned it was a permanent release, meaning that it shouldn't be like dreadfleet whereby it gets released and then never supported...
Being that this manager knows how to make sales, he could just be trying to rouse interest to make people visit the store but I have faith in his words and can't wait to find out what it is.
Anyone else heard similar?
If so, I'd imagine it's The Hobbit boxed game taking over from the Mines of Moria boxed game. Pretty simple.
To the OP:
All of your points sound feasable and I've seen almost all of those rumours before. However, if you're actually located in Japan, you've pretty much given away the identity of the Design Studio guy's brother simply via your location - to anyone who would know.
Additionally, I can't see the box being CSM vs Dark Angels - GW likes to keep their boxed set SMs nice and generic to starting off kids can use them for any SM army they like. Possible they're painted green instead of blue, though.
raincity wrote:I like the sound of the upcoming chaos legions codex if it proves to be true. Would love a traitor guard codex however!
Well, if the rumour is true (and we won't get a traitor guard codex) then it fits in with what FW have been doing. There are traitor guard army lists, right there, in Vraks books 5-7 if you want to do something similar to the old "Eye of Terror' codex, although there are even more options in the FW books. Not to mention the possibility of doing a 'counts as' if you want to mix guard and marines (books 9 and 10). It could be that GW said no to the traitor guard book (new EoT book or such like) and pushed it for FW to take the reigns over.
And guys you should give the OP a break, in this age of crappy rumours and no indication at all of what is coming sometimes only a week away, we should take everything we get
@ Grot 6-- Normally, I enjoy the piquant flavor you bring dakka. I got to say when it's directed at me, well, not so much. You know sadly I don't think opening up with "Yeah guys, I heard some inside information from the cousin of J.J. Mamalade, Chief Designer of GW Upcoming Releases that...His address is 111 Pennyroyal Lane..." would be a great idea. If you think that makes me TFG, well I suppose I have to live with that.
I'm glad the general attitude in responses has shifted from that of the first few posters. I haven't even given my own thoughts on the info. While I believe what I was told, I never would have believed that GW would put 2 marine armies in a starter if I read it on a forum. However, I think that chaos forces will be made more distinct from their loyalist counterparts in 6th. I got that sense from the way he was talking about the release. Maybe it will make more sense in the future.
@ Scipio-- I never said he was part of the design studio.
Anyway, I have nothing to gain from putting this info out there for you. The gratitude is nice, but the ire is really not worth my time.
Good, just as intended. Still, never sure where that line is about what might be to far for some. Anyways, appreciate the info, and hope GW does not bury under anything, although I suspect that the would use grey plastic instead of illegal drugs.
AesSedai wrote:@ Grot 6-- Normally, I enjoy the piquant flavor you bring dakka. I got to say when it's directed at me, well, not so much. You know sadly I don't think opening up with "Yeah guys, I heard some inside information from the cousin of J.J. Mamalade, Chief Designer of GW Upcoming Releases that...His address is 111 Pennyroyal Lane..." would be a great idea. If you think that makes me TFG, well I suppose I have to live with that.
I'm glad the general attitude in responses has shifted from that of the first few posters. I haven't even given my own thoughts on the info. While I believe what I was told, I never would have believed that GW would put 2 marine armies in a starter if I read it on a forum. However, I think that chaos forces will be made more distinct from their loyalist counterparts in 6th. I got that sense from the way he was talking about the release. Maybe it will make more sense in the future.
@ Scipio-- I never said he was part of the design studio.
Anyway, I have nothing to gain from putting this info out there for you. The gratitude is nice, but the ire is really not worth my time.
Don't start a rumor mill thread if you can't accept that the majority of people aren't going to believe you. Second problem is that you have no credibility, you've never done rumors posts before, and your source is someone you haven't even met IRL, and you can't even disclose the information of who you're e-mailing, just that it's someones brother and we're to trust you, because you trust him.
Third, after it all, all you did was whine about people being skeptical about your rumors. I'd suggest with your delicate sensibilities that you refrain from anymore x told me y told him rumor mill posts. This is just so you don't end up with a tear drenched pillow at the end of the night, because a little kid with a dump truck full of salt ruined your day.
AesSedai wrote:Recently, we met for the first time after having talked for some time over email.
Kreedos wrote:Don't start a rumor mill thread if you can't accept that the majority of people aren't going to believe you. Second problem is that you have no credibility, you've never done rumors posts before, and your source is someone you haven't even met IRL, and you can't even disclose the information of who you're e-mailing, just that it's someones brother and we're to trust you, because you trust him.
First off, Don't bother posting in a rumour mill thread if you aren't even going to read all of the first post.
Second, I think rule #1 is to be polite, which you were not.
See, I can do that too. On the topic at hand though, I would be a happy player to see half of this come through.
AesSedai wrote:Recently, we met for the first time after having talked for some time over email.
Kreedos wrote:Don't start a rumor mill thread if you can't accept that the majority of people aren't going to believe you. Second problem is that you have no credibility, you've never done rumors posts before, and your source is someone you haven't even met IRL, and you can't even disclose the information of who you're e-mailing, just that it's someones brother and we're to trust you, because you trust him.
First off, Don't bother posting in a rumour mill thread if you aren't even going to read all of the first post.
Second, I think rule #1 is to be polite, which you were not.
See, I can do that too. On the topic at hand though, I would be a happy player to see half of this come through.
Oh no, you got me bro! I guess what I've said has no credibility now because they've met, it all must be true!
Also, yeah this whole post is full to the brim of just super polite overly nice people. Sunshine and Unicorns bro, peace be with you.
This is the most believeable 6th edition rumor set yet to be revealed. Marinehammer 40,000's 6th edition boxed set will be Green Marines vs Spiky Marines.
Plus, the OP can't remember if the Marine codex after Necrons is Eldar or Dark Angel Marines. Basically that means the Eldar will be converted wholly into Elf Marines with Space Marine statlines. All theri Aspect Warriors from Scorpion Marines to Wraithmarines to Dreadwraiths will be Marines-ized.
The Tau are going to be squatted because they're not Marines.
Also, the Spiky Marines Chaos Space Marines will inevitably get marines a codex marines soon marines. Marines marines marines.
MOST over used and tired refrence on Dakka, the use of the word WHINE. just because someone protests something does not make it whining. Get over it dakka.
On topic. When i was in LA i heard nearly the same rumor concerning the chaos legion codex from a freind who knows someone. He told me he was certain it was in the pipe. I know this rumor has been around a while, but none the less this is interesting.
Sweet stuff; rumors about Chaos Legions are always welcome in my book. Thanks for sharing, OP.
sennacherib wrote: On topic. I would love to see a chaos vrs marine box set for 6th. might even buy it.
I was hoping for Chaos Vs. Eldar so I could get back into 40k with a new edition and buy two of my favorite armies. But if I'm honest it's probably a good thing that's not the case cause I would end up giving GW all of my money and go bankrupt in the process.
Mal the Wolf wrote:Absolutionis thanks for that extra kick in the crotch. lol
Don't worry. The squats were eaten by Tyranids, but your beloved Tau got eaten by Ultramarines (Tyranids are being phased out for not being Marines)! The Ultramarines stole all the Tau's Pulse Rifles. Their 6th edition Marinedex will have all the stuff you love about Tau... but with Marine profiles!
Pew pew pew! For the Greater Emperor!
I could see somebody from GW pitching a traitor guard codex, but there is no need for one. As a traitor guard player I'm perfectly happy using the 5th ed IG code and having the traitor aspect being purely cosmetic.
And I find the news about the Tau very very disappointing. I am starting to think I might have time to start an finish a Tyranid army (after I finish my current SM force) before the Tau ever get done now.
AesSedai wrote:
4) I really wanted to get news about the Tau. Heartbreakingly he said that the Tau are not even being talked about at this point. They are way out in the lineup.
*sucks in a deep breath* NOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooo
i was hoping i would get some love like in the next 6 mos or so
I'd actually like to thank the OP for the info... true or not, I'm more inclined to believe it because there is a distinct lack of Sisters of Battle rumors or Tau rumors... and I know that GW doesn't give a crap about them, thus by proxy I'm inclined to believe his info.
However: The OP mentioned Necrons along with words such as 'released' and 'soon'... so I'm half inclined to NOT believe the OP...
BSent wrote:On the subject of a new starter box, I could see it happening.
Think of it like this, the Dark Angles get Terminators(5), Bikes(3), a Land Speeder, and some marines.
On the other hand chaos gets some legion specific marines, some chaos deamons, and possibly even a deamon prince.
Doesn't sound impossible to me.
I don't know. I just can't see to MEQs in one box. Personally, I think it's going to be Eldar vs Chaos Space Marines, that way you have one MEQ, one Xenos. CSM don't count as xenos, right?
Ya, but having a good marine vs an evil marine does keep the starter set incredibly balanced for new players; plus it helps capitalize off of the Space Marine video game. I can totally see them doing this
The video game point is good one. I think that their CSMs will look more renege (no horns) so that they can be converted to normal marines. Whatever, I play Orks.
Hey OP, thanks for the info. Personally I too have a friend, who is the brother of GW's head designer. He told me (under oath of secrecy) that WH40k is being shut down to focus on lord of the rings trademark stuff, since the Hobbit is coming to screens. Fortunately, my uncle who works at nintendo is getting me advance copies of the new games early, so I will still have stuff to do. Don't say you don't believe me, cause my cousin is in the special forces and taught me how to paralyse people with my fists.
In case I'm not making this clear via sarcasm, I don't think it's bad of the OP to pass on this info - but his anonymous friend is obviously one of those blokes who needs to make up stories to get attention, and the OP seems pretty naive for believing it so completely.
I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly wrote:Hey OP, thanks for the info. Personally I too have a friend, who is the brother of GW's head designer. He told me (under oath of secrecy) that WH40k is being shut down to focus on lord of the rings trademark stuff, since the Hobbit is coming to screens. Fortunately, my uncle who works at nintendo is getting me advance copies of the new games early, so I will still have stuff to do. Don't say you don't believe me, cause my cousin is in the special forces and taught me how to paralyse people with my fists.
In case I'm not making this clear via sarcasm, I don't think it's bad of the OP to pass on this info - but his anonymous friend is obviously one of those blokes who needs to make up stories to get attention, and the OP seems pretty naive for believing it so completely.
You know, the whole "brother" thing is pretty easy for the OP to check the plausibility of with the "last name" feature. I know you probably didn't think about that, you were too busy trying to muster all your wit for a sarcastic post.
Kreedos wrote:Once again, I was being sarcastic. Oh internet why have you forsaken me.
It’s hard to convey tone on the internet hence why a lot of people use [sarcasm][/sarcasm] tags. It’s easy for sarcasm to appear as trolling/flaming without clear comic direction.
Kudos to the OP regarding the info. Seems fairly plausible and in synch with the other stuff we’ve heard. Hopefully we hear some rumours about the actual contents of the Legions codex (rather than more repeats of the existence of the codex).
AesSedai wrote:I really need a device to measure my misanthropy. Sheesh, this post is bringing out all types.
Personally I too have a friend
Now that is a salt-worthy claim. Your sarcasm, though cute, is not appreciated.
What cracks me up is that you're still mad, and still conveying the fact that you're mad. You realize that's just fuel for the... wait you don't realize. My bad, allow me to enlighten you on a few things you may have missed.
I think your frustration, obvious annoyance and anger over your post being challenged as a legit rumor mill post is cute, and your long winded replies only generate further lawls to be had on your behalf.
You're very naive to think that posting rumors, without any credibility, or being able to tell anything at all about your source and it's legitimacy, is going to be taken seriously.
Not only that, this is the internet, have you been around recently? It's not exactly Carebear cloud palace.
Also, sarcasm is almost never appreciated when it's directed at you, that's why it's not called "being super nice". You don't need to point out the obvious.
Lastly you are very dramatic in your replies, which will just generate more fuel for the troll fire "Don't feed the trolls", you must have missed that general rule in regards with anything to do with the internet.
I think you might want to Google "Rules of the internet" I think there's an abundance of knowledge for the taking that might be of great benefit in future endeavors in dakka dakka, and the big scary world wide web.
Well, ignoring the hate, sarcasm etc. (which I do not understand frankly) the news are interesting.
We will see by next year if they are true or not. A change on Chaos Legions would be appreciated since this dex is horrible :\. The only thing that I do not like is that MEQ will be powered up as always leaving other races behind. I love it as a Marine player, but I do understand that this is absurd.
Thanks for sharing, and if you have more news please write them down!
AesSedai wrote:I really need a device to measure my misanthropy. Sheesh, this post is bringing out all types.
Personally I too have a friend
Now that is a salt-worthy claim. Your sarcasm, though cute, is not appreciated.
What cracks me up is that you're still mad, and still conveying the fact that you're mad. You realize that's just fuel for the... wait you don't realize. My bad.
I think your frustration, obvious annoyance and anger over your post being challenged as a legit rumor mill post is cute.
You're very naive to think that posting rumors, without any credibility, or being able to tell anything at all about your source and it's legitimacy, is going to be taken seriously.
Not only that, this is the internet, have you been around recently? It's not exactly Carebear cloud palace.
Also, sarcasm is almost never appreciated when it's directed at you, that's why it's not called "being super nice".
Lastly you are very dramatic in your replies, Which I find quite cute as well, actually more funny than cute.
I think you might want to Google "Rules of the internet" I think there's an abundance of knowledge for the taking that might be of great benefit in future endeavors.
Dude. It's rumors about toys, not rumors about anything important. This isn't something to be rude to another person over, for sure.
It's just as easy to be polite to someone, even on the internet, as it is to be rude. Being rude may amuse you, and others, in the short term but it makes you look bad in the long term. Being polite, even to people you don't think deserve it, is better both long and short term.
There really is no reason at all to go our of your way to put someone down or dismiss them when they are trying to give us some rumors to discuss. Even if they turn out to be false, they gave us something to talk about for a while which is the entire point of the news and rumors section of Dakka.
Reecius wrote:Dude. It's rumors about toys, not rumors about anything important. This isn't something to be rude to another person over, for sure.
It's just as easy to be polite to someone, even on the internet, as it is to be rude. Being rude may amuse you, and others, in the short term but it makes you look bad in the long term. Being polite, even to people you don't think deserve it, is better both long and short term.
There really is no reason at all to go our of your way to put someone down or dismiss them when they are trying to give us some rumors to discuss. Even if they turn out to be false, they gave us something to talk about for a while which is the entire point of the news and rumors section of Dakka.
I think your frustration, obvious annoyance and anger over your post being challenged as a legit rumor mill post is cute, and your long winded replies only generate further lawls to be had on your behalf.
You're very naive to think that posting rumors, without any credibility, or being able to tell anything at all about your source and it's legitimacy, is going to be taken seriously.
Of course one does generate ones own credibility by posting rumours that then do turn out to be true.
Might from tiny acorns are mighty oaks etc etc
So we can drop the needlessly flamey attacks towards the OP. If people don't believe him, fine, don't. If this turns out to be untrue then they'll have the sweet feeling of vindication.
The boxed set for 6th with be Chaos versus Dark Angels.
That sounds very plausible to me. And tallies with some stuff I was hearing a wee while back.
And, IMO, looking at this from an intro game POV I could see the merit in having more balanced and equal forces to demonstrate the game with. It would certainly be novel for the marines victims opponents to actually get an armour save when shot at anyway.
Reecius wrote:
Dude. It's rumors about toys, not rumors about anything important. This isn't something to be rude to another person over, for sure.
So if I melted all your minis in an acid bath you would feel that's not important? We spend all this time painting, and playing and having pride in our toy armies, and even though they are toys, they are important or else we wouldn't take the care, the time and spend the money on them. Most of us have the value of car invested in miniatures, boxes, painting supplies, and display cases.
Yet this isn't about anything important? I've heard this useless dribble to try and end conversations saying everything is ridiculous and it's just toys.
It's more than that to all of us, and you know it. As polite as I can say it, I think what you just said is full of crap and I doubt you even believe it yourself, considering your presence on this forum Reecius.
Giving people false hope is pretty rude in itself.
And please tell me which new rumor we received, besides the Dark Angels/CSM Legion set? The only new news in the entire thing was the fact that the dark angels my be the second army in the new 6th set (which we already knew is on the block).
I'm actually a nice guy, and I help people out all the time, feel free to check some of my previous army building section posts. So, I don't believe that me having a strong stance in one forum is going to be the bane of me, as I believe we're allowed to have our opinions and express them on this forum, I may have been a bit rude, but as far as crossing lines, I don't think I did so any more than anyone else. Also, I'll let my words speak for themselves, if people choose to dislike me for my opinion or what I've said, that's on them, but It's not something I'm going to worry about.
Also, wouldn't a rumor like this, esp with so much detail in the OP, be tracked back to the source and get the developer's brother in trouble? So, just the post itself could be causing someone their job.
3) 6th Edition. He said it is just around the corner. I think he was more specific but I don't want to compromise this information with half remembered details. I believe he mentioned 2 codexs to be released before 6th. One was Necrons and the other was either Dark Angels or Eldar. I was surprised at this. Whatever the order was (either DA or Eldar, the other will be the second book in 6th--damn it, I can't remember which one!)
Any clarifications on what the bolded part means? To me it implies early 2012 but I simply cannot see two codexes being released between, say now and next March with 6th to follow.
Are we looking at maybe a summer 2012 release?
Reecius wrote:
Dude. It's rumors about toys, not rumors about anything important. This isn't something to be rude to another person over, for sure.
So if I melted all your minis in an acid bath you would feel that's not important? We spend all this time painting, and playing and having pride in our toy armies, and even though they are toys, they are important or else we wouldn't take the care, the time and spend the money on them. Most of us have the value of car invested in miniatures, boxes, painting supplies, and display cases.
My friend, there is a world of difference between melting my plastic toy soldiers in an acid bath and whether or not you believe a rumour on a forum on the internet... so in all honesty, I don't even know what point you're trying to make. Sure, if you went about damaging something I paid for I'd be rather inclined to engage in the noble art of fisticuffs, but as it stands... all this has been is your being rude to someone because you don't believe what he's said and don't think it has any value. But it isn't important enough to be so consistently rude about it, surely?
As my old teacher used to say, manners don't cost you anything but they can gain you a lot. Being rude and impolite will just hold you back. And 'giving people false hope'... not sure how this does that at all? Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that sometimes these rumours just don't work out.
As far as crossing lines... all 3 pages of this thread have you just generally being rude over something that matters very little. Which means the line is very far back and very easy to cross, really, when you could have just left it at one post or... shock and horror... just been civil in the first place...
Anyway, enough of all that, some of these rumours were certainly news to me and I look forward to seeing how they pan out sure, I've heard a couple before, but surely that just means they gain some credibility for coming from multiple sources? And I kinda dislike the idea of a marine vs marine starter set, but I suspect it will result in something more balanced than what we've usually gotten ^^
Reecius wrote:
Dude. It's rumors about toys, not rumors about anything important. This isn't something to be rude to another person over, for sure.
So if I melted all your minis in an acid bath you would feel that's not important? We spend all this time painting, and playing and having pride in our toy armies, and even though they are toys, they are important or else we wouldn't take the care, the time and spend the money on them. Most of us have the value of car invested in miniatures, boxes, painting supplies, and display cases.
My friend, there is a world of difference between melting my plastic toy soldiers in an acid bath and whether or not you believe a rumour on a forum on the internet... so in all honesty, I don't even know what point you're trying to make. Sure, if you went about damaging something I paid for I'd be rather inclined to engage in the noble art of fisticuffs, but as it stands... all this has been is your being rude to someone because you don't believe what he's said and don't think it has any value. But it isn't important enough to be so consistently rude about it, surely?
As my old teacher used to say, manners don't cost you anything but they can gain you a lot. Being rude and impolite will just hold you back. And 'giving people false hope'... not sure how this does that at all? Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that sometimes these rumours just don't work out.
As far as crossing lines... all 3 pages of this thread have you just generally being rude over something that matters very little. Which means the line is very far back and very easy to cross, really, when you could have just left it at one post or... shock and horror... just been civil in the first place...
Anyway, enough of all that, some of these rumours were certainly news to me and I look forward to seeing how they pan out sure, I've heard a couple before, but surely that just means they gain some credibility for coming from multiple sources? And I kinda dislike the idea of a marine vs marine starter set, but I suspect it will result in something more balanced than what we've usually gotten ^^
posted edited (sorry Beregond)
The first part of your paragraph, you obviously didn't get a lick of what I meant when I was talking about melting mini's because you compared it to the rumor post, which I wasn't speaking of at all. I was speaking of the fact that whenever a hot debate over Warhammer happens, it's just shrugged off as a "toy solider game that isn't important"
As far as the false hope issue. PEOPLE WANT TO BELIEVE, and that's what's going to happen most of the time. If they're the smarter type, salt is added.
I'm done arguing the point though, because I've made it previously multiple times. You can think I'm rude if you want, there's plenty of people on this forum that I don't care for myself.
There's always going to be haters, and there's always going to be the ones that want us to all get along. I'm neither, I'm merely playing devils advocate on this issue.
Kreedos wrote:I could barely read this and figure out your mean, honestly in all seriousness not being rude here but you need to work on learning where to place punctuation.
The first part of your paragraph, you obviously didn't get a lick of what I meant when I was talking about melting mini's because you compared it to the rumor post, which I wasn't speaking of at all. I was speaking of the fact that whenever a hot debate over Warhammer happens, it's just shrugged off as a "toy solider game that isn't important"
I'm done arguing the point though, because I've made it previously multiple times. You can think I'm rude if you want, there's plenty of people on this forum that I don't care for myself.
There's always going to be haters, and there's always going to be the ones that want us to all get along. I'm neither, I'm merely playing devils advocate on this issue.
Insults to my English... I haven't had that in a while. Particularly given that I've never lost a mark for it in anything I ever did back when I was in education... surprising. Also, the little banner over there <--- is just where I'm living, I'm actually a native Englishman. Just so you know.
The first paragraph is simply a response to your completely out of proportion metaphor, nothing more. You tell me I lack understanding when all I am telling you is that your metaphor lacks any meaning. And it IS just a toy soldier game that isn't important. I wouldn't say it is completely unimportant, but it certainly isn't important enough to go around being uncivil with people when you have a disagreement. You can state your opinion all you want, no one has been arguing with that... it's just the way you've been doing it here that isn't particularly favourable.
And I think the fact that you've seemingly taken to trying to make your point multiple times is what people are disagreeing with here. At the very least it's what I am disagreeing with. I wouldn't say you're particularly rude, just unnecessarily so in this case.
And yes, there will always be haters. This is the internet, hating is what people do. Why you would feel the need to be rude and somewhat demeaning to someone on a point you seemingly don't even agree with completely boggles my mind... but we're getting off topic here. You can await my PM inquiring about my grammar shortly. Until then, toodles
Kreedos wrote:I could barely read this and figure out your mean, honestly in all seriousness not being rude here but you need to work on learning where to place punctuation.
The first part of your paragraph, you obviously didn't get a lick of what I meant when I was talking about melting mini's because you compared it to the rumor post, which I wasn't speaking of at all. I was speaking of the fact that whenever a hot debate over Warhammer happens, it's just shrugged off as a "toy solider game that isn't important"
I'm done arguing the point though, because I've made it previously multiple times. You can think I'm rude if you want, there's plenty of people on this forum that I don't care for myself.
There's always going to be haters, and there's always going to be the ones that want us to all get along. I'm neither, I'm merely playing devils advocate on this issue.
Insults to my English... I haven't had that in a while. Particularly given that I've never lost a mark for it in anything I ever did back when I was in education... surprising. Also, the little banner over there <--- is just where I'm living, I'm actually a native Englishman. Just so you know.
The first paragraph is simply a response to your completely out of proportion metaphor, nothing more. You tell me I lack understanding when all I am telling you is that your metaphor lacks any meaning. And it IS just a toy soldier game that isn't important. I wouldn't say it is completely unimportant, but it certainly isn't important enough to go around being uncivil with people when you have a disagreement. You can state your opinion all you want, no one has been arguing with that... it's just the way you've been doing it here that isn't particularly favourable.
And I think the fact that you've seemingly taken to trying to make your point multiple times is what people are disagreeing with here. At the very least it's what I am disagreeing with. I wouldn't say you're particularly rude, just unnecessarily so in this case.
And yes, there will always be haters. This is the internet, hating is what people do. Why you would feel the need to be rude and somewhat demeaning to someone on a point you seemingly don't even agree with completely boggles my mind... but we're getting off topic here. You can await my PM inquiring about my grammar shortly. Until then, toodles
Not really insulting you, sorry if you thought I was. I understand if it's not your first language or if you struggle some of it, and if that's the case I apologize.
However, I don't believe that I'm the only one in this post that feels the same way about the post, maybe just the one who took the largest stance against it and the most posts conveying my feeling about the general thread
Some of which, may have been a bit unnecessary. But even when being nice it's easy to be very rude very quickly.
OP, if I've actually offended you to the point where it really hurt your feelings, I apologize.
Ffs, why are folk arguing and getting personal over this? It never ceases to amaze me how some people can get so pent up from a thread, usually just because the rumour says "your choice of miniatures isn't next" or something stupid.
Remember, manners cost absolutely nothing. NOTHING. Why go about trying to bring someone's day down? Why have a go at a person for spelling mistakes? What if they're dyslexic and you're actually discriminating against a disability? Would you take the piss out of a guy in a wheel chair?
Come on, grow up, calm down and move the hell on - stop acting like little kids in a play ground pulling each others hair whilst trying to claim that you're being 'mature'.
And back on topic, I so wish that they'd do a 'Chaos Guard' codex, I wanted that back in the late 90's, would love to see it come to fruition. Nurgle guards would look DA BOMB!
kitch102 wrote:Ffs, why are folk arguing and getting personal over this? It never ceases to amaze me how some people can get so pent up from a thread, usually just because the rumour says "your choice of miniatures isn't next" or something stupid.
Remember, manners cost absolutely nothing. NOTHING. Why go about trying to bring someone's day down? Why have a go at a person for spelling mistakes? What if they're dyslexic and you're actually discriminating against a disability? Would you take the piss out of a guy in a wheel chair?
Come on, grow up, calm down and move the hell on - stop acting like little kids in a play ground pulling each others hair whilst trying to claim that you're being 'mature'.
Did you just miss the above post? What you just posted was completely redundant, about 4-5 people already said the exact same thing you did, scroll a bit up?
Beregond wrote:
As my old teacher used to say, manners don't cost you anything but they can gain you a lot. Being rude and impolite will just hold you back.
Reecius wrote:
It's just as easy to be polite to someone, even on the internet, as it is to be rude. Being rude may amuse you, and others, in the short term but it makes you look bad in the long term. Being polite, even to people you don't think deserve it, is better both long and short term.
Oh, nvm, you did add that you'd like to see a Chaos Guard codex. Oops.
Also, all this talk about people calming down. Who's upset?
Anyway nvm all that, I'd rather we get back on topic.
I'm personally hoping the Dark Angels are the new army to be boxed but I'd love to see BT boxed too. Traitor guard sounds like a nice concept, but it also sounds like it would just be some kind of IG/Chaos Hybrid, although interesting, it seems in theory it would be a very involved process to make work. Either way, I hope what's in store doesn't get the Sisters of Battle treatment, maybe that's why I'm so angry guys?
I hope codex chaos legions replaces the current csm codex and combines better daemon support e.g God specific lesser and greater daemons, putting the daemon rule in the codex and giving it to units like obliterators, possessed, daemon princes etc.
AesSedai wrote:I really need a device to measure my misanthropy. Sheesh, this post is bringing out all types.
Personally I too have a friend
Now that is a salt-worthy claim. Your sarcasm, though cute, is not appreciated.
What cracks me up is that you're still mad, and still conveying the fact that you're mad. You realize that's just fuel for the... wait you don't realize. My bad, allow me to enlighten you on a few things you may have missed.
I think your frustration, obvious annoyance and anger over your post being challenged as a legit rumor mill post is cute, and your long winded replies only generate further lawls to be had on your behalf.
You're very naive to think that posting rumors, without any credibility, or being able to tell anything at all about your source and it's legitimacy, is going to be taken seriously.
Not only that, this is the internet, have you been around recently? It's not exactly Carebear cloud palace.
Also, sarcasm is almost never appreciated when it's directed at you, that's why it's not called "being super nice". You don't need to point out the obvious.
Lastly you are very dramatic in your replies, which will just generate more fuel for the troll fire "Don't feed the trolls", you must have missed that general rule in regards with anything to do with the internet.
I think you might want to Google "Rules of the internet" I think there's an abundance of knowledge for the taking that might be of great benefit in future endeavors in dakka dakka, and the big scary world wide web.
It is funny. Kind of reminds me of my posting here of 10 years back. No rumours, just lots of earnestness.
As a good little Chaos fanboy, I'd love for CSM to be featured in the starter set, but a power armoured army vs another power armoured army, really? It is fluffy and awesome, but maybe not the best idea for a starter set? An IMO fluffier and even better choice would be traitor guard, cultists, mutants etc. led by a few Fallen against the Dark Angels, with an Interrogator Chaplian for the DAHQ... That scenario would really blow my mind and may even lead me to consider buying it as a non newbie.
Deathly Angel wrote:As a good little Chaos fanboy, I'd love for CSM to be featured in the starter set, but a power armoured army vs another power armoured army, really? It is fluffy and awesome, but maybe not the best idea for a starter set? An IMO fluffier and even better choice would be traitor guard, cultists, mutants etc. led by a few Fallen against the Dark Angels, with an Interrogator Chaplian for the DAHQ... That scenario would really blow my mind and may even lead me to consider buying it as a non newbie.
That sounds awesome! That is why it would not happen
Mr Mystery wrote:Bit about the Dev team matches what was said in the Seminar.
But the rest of it? Seems unlikely.
By the bit about the Dev team, you mean the whole pitching army concepts restructuring?
Hard to say. In the seminar it was stated that they can pitch their own ideas, but this was said directly relating to my question about Dreadfleet, and how they chose that over other concepts. I'd love to be able to say for sure if it applies to all their projects, but I simply can't!
There is nothing in the OP's post that contradicts most of the rumours I have heard. There are a couple of contradictory points but nothing major.
The Chaos Legions book has apparently been in development for quite some time.
Apparently GW weren't that happy with the current CSM Codex and wanted to make changes almost straight after it was released but couldn't commit the resources. However they were aware of the problems with it.
Jervis Johnson mentioned the Legions Codex quite some time ago, and implied that the current CSM Codex would remain and would be used for Renegade Marines, whereas the Legions Codex would be Legion specific and be for those Legions left after the Horus Heresy that fled to the Eye of Terror.
All rumours point to this being available in First Quarter of 2012, so quite soon.
It will be much more in line with the older CSM Codex, so Legion specifiic with each Legion having specail rules. For those wanting to do traitor guard there will be a limited opportunity for this using the Alpha Legion list, which may be why a full codex was rejected.
In terms of the boxed set I have also heard strong rumours that it will be Dark Angels vs Traitor Marines, but I have heard rumours that the starter set will be very different to previous editions.
You can take this one with a huge pinch of salt, and I am not sure how much I believe it but thought I would share it as I have heard it from various sources.
There will be two versions of the starter set for the first time. Rather than the box containing two armies each will have one, so Dark Angels versions and a Traitor version. Each will have a selection of figures, but the extra space in the box will focus on scenery. So there will be a small Dark Angels force with a Dark Angels specific piece of scenery in one box, and a small Traitor force and Chaos specific scenery in the other.
GW cottoned onto the fact that most people go halves on the starter set and split the armies, which means less sales, or ebay one half again resulting in less sales. Having the starter set with just one army in but at the usual price means that if you want both armies you have to buy two boxed sets, and you won't be able to buy with a friend and spilt them now. However the extra scenery in the box apparently will make it worthwhile.
Again take that with a pinch of salt but I have heard that from credible sources. The boxed set should also be available around the time of the London Olympics, so some time around July/August next year.
The only things in the OPs post I have heard that contradict this are Eldar and Tau. However all things change rumour wise so who knows. I have heard that Tau have been ready for quite some time. At least the models. They were meant to be released this year but for some reason they were held back. This was due to be a models release without a Codex. New re-cut Battlesuits, Plastic Path Finders and a new unit entry that was to be a White Dwarf add on. It may be that they are now waiting for the Codex to be done and then release the new models then.
And Eldar will be a ways off just yet. Ther are all sorts of legal issues with Eldar and Tyranids that has meant they have been delayed, but that is a complicated issue for another thread unfortunately.
There is nothing in the OP's post that contradicts most of the rumours I have heard. There are a couple of contradictory points but nothing major.
The Chaos Legions book has apparently been in development for quite some time.
Apparently GW weren't that happy with the current CSM Codex and wanted to make changes almost straight after it was released but couldn't commit the resources. However they were aware of the problems with it.
Jervis Johnson mentioned the Legions Codex quite some time ago, and implied that the current CSM Codex would remain and would be used for Renegade Marines, whereas the Legions Codex would be Legion specific and be for those Legions left after the Horus Heresy that fled to the Eye of Terror.
All rumours point to this being available in First Quarter of 2012, so quite soon.
It will be much more in line with the older CSM Codex, so Legion specifiic with each Legion having specail rules. For those wanting to do traitor guard there will be a limited opportunity for this using the Alpha Legion list, which may be why a full codex was rejected.
In terms of the boxed set I have also heard strong rumours that it will be Dark Angels vs Traitor Marines, but I have heard rumours that the starter set will be very different to previous editions.
You can take this one with a huge pinch of salt, and I am not sure how much I believe it but thought I would share it as I have heard it from various sources.
There will be two versions of the starter set for the first time. Rather than the box containing two armies each will have one, so Dark Angels versions and a Traitor version. Each will have a selection of figures, but the extra space in the box will focus on scenery. So there will be a small Dark Angels force with a Dark Angels specific piece of scenery in one box, and a small Traitor force and Chaos specific scenery in the other.
GW cottoned onto the fact that most people go halves on the starter set and split the armies, which means less sales, or ebay one half again resulting in less sales. Having the starter set with just one army in but at the usual price means that if you want both armies you have to buy two boxed sets, and you won't be able to buy with a friend and spilt them now. However the extra scenery in the box apparently will make it worthwhile.
Again take that with a pinch of salt but I have heard that from credible sources. The boxed set should also be available around the time of the London Olympics, so some time around July/August next year.
The only things in the OPs post I have heard that contradict this are Eldar and Tau. However all things change rumour wise so who knows. I have heard that Tau have been ready for quite some time. At least the models. They were meant to be released this year but for some reason they were held back. This was due to be a models release without a Codex. New re-cut Battlesuits, Plastic Path Finders and a new unit entry that was to be a White Dwarf add on. It may be that they are now waiting for the Codex to be done and then release the new models then.
And Eldar will be a ways off just yet. Ther are all sorts of legal issues with Eldar and Tyranids that has meant they have been delayed, but that is a complicated issue for another thread unfortunately.
A lot of GW releases are on hold until the whole Chapterhouse mess is resolved. There are issues over copyright which until resolved mean GW won't release some stuff until it's all over which won't be any time soon. This specifically relates to two models in the Chapterhouse range, but I don't want to derail this thread with that. However GW won't release some models but not others and so is having to hold off until they can release them all as a wave.
Dark Angels v's Chaos/Traitors works for me. The two box format is even better, as I'm always eager for terrain and I'm sure that would mean a couple extra figs on current content.
Deathly Angel wrote:As a good little Chaos fanboy, I'd love for CSM to be featured in the starter set, but a power armoured army vs another power armoured army, really? It is fluffy and awesome, but maybe not the best idea for a starter set? An IMO fluffier and even better choice would be traitor guard, cultists, mutants etc. led by a few Fallen against the Dark Angels, with an Interrogator Chaplian for the DAHQ... That scenario would really blow my mind and may even lead me to consider buying it as a non newbie.
That sounds awesome! That is why it would not happen
I agree, I'd skeetskeetskeet all over that boxed set with hawt man love
StraightSilver wrote:A lot of GW releases are on hold until the whole Chapterhouse mess is resolved. There are issues over copyright which until resolved mean GW won't release some stuff until it's all over which won't be any time soon. This specifically relates to two models in the Chapterhouse range, but I don't want to derail this thread with that. However GW won't release some models but not others and so is having to hold off until they can release them all as a wave.
So wait, does that mean Tyranid players should be venting at the court case for a lack of a second wave.
I cannot obviously corroborate it, but I have heard that is the case from credible sources, but again stuff said over a pint isn't always that reliable, but these are people that would normally know.
And yes that is apparently why the Tyranid wave has been held up and also why GW may never make Thunderwolves. Basically the third party companies that got there first can now challenge GW over copyright, not something they would ever allow to happen.
As I say it may only be a rumour, and unfortunately I can't specifically say where most of my rumours have come from in case I drop anyone in it but they do work for the company and aren't a black or red shirt.
And it is specifically a couple of things, but these are fairly important ones.
It's just that Chapterhouse is attesting that it owns the copyright on a couple of GW concepts because it produced the models first. GW are challenging that but don't want to release their models in case Chapterhouse then challenge ownership.
Of course always take with a pinch of salt, but rumours are rumours I guess.
Ther are all sorts of legal issues with Eldar and Tyranids that has meant they have been delayed
Legal issues?
Maybe they have a dispute with Tolkien Estate and H.R Giger, respectively
StraightSilver wrote:I cannot obviously corroborate it, but I have heard that is the case from credible sources, but again stuff said over a pint isn't always that reliable, but these are people that would normally know.
And yes that is apparently why the Tyranid wave has been held up and also why GW may never make Thunderwolves. Basically the third party companies that got there first can now challenge GW over copyright, not something they would ever allow to happen.
Hmm, that sounds pretty bizarre. It would be almost like if I wrote a book and then someone else writes a sequel for it, forbading me doing the same...
It's just that Chapterhouse is attesting that it owns the copyright on a couple of GW concepts because it produced the models first. GW are challenging that but don't want to release their models in case Chapterhouse then challenge ownership.
How can chapterhouse own concepts established by GW?
It's painfully obvious that chapterhouse is nothing but a company based on derivatives of GW works. Not even generic sci-fi, specifically GW.
It's just that Chapterhouse is attesting that it owns the copyright on a couple of GW concepts because it produced the models first. GW are challenging that but don't want to release their models in case Chapterhouse then challenge ownership.
How can chapterhouse own concepts established by GW?
It's painfully obvious that chapterhouse is nothing but a company based on derivatives of GW works. Not even generic sci-fi, specifically GW.
From my admitedlly limited knowledge, GW pretty much own the written and drawn concept. I suspect that this does not extend to any model kit or other representation.
We all know Chapterhouse are free loading and ripping on GW's harder work, but the court case it would seem is whether or not this is legal.
But enough on this bit I think. My knowledge is extremely limited in this area, and there's a lovely big thread about it in General!
Mr Mystery wrote:We all know Chapterhouse are free loading and ripping on GW's harder work, but the court case it would seem is whether or not this is legal.
Theres been lots of rumors of Marines vs Chaos Marines in the 6th ed box, but I don't see that happening for a few reasons.
The main being they're far too similar, and all the designers notes I've read for the 5/6/7/8 ed of Fantasy and 4/5 ed of 40k have said that they specifically chose an armored and a non-armored army in order to present different painting styles.
If it is indeed SM vs Chaos, I would expect it to be daemons or traitor guard, rather than CSM.
Hoping that the DA Codex appears post 6th Edition myself. I'm liking the hardback Fantasy army books as this will no doubt be introduced for 40K, I don't want DA to be the last soft back codex and then have to wait forever for a hardback edition.
Very interesting thread this, I was going to say it'd be a very cheap starter box for me as I only want the rule book but Streaightsilver's scenery rumblings sound very cool, say what you like about GW's prices/business methods/rules etc etc but I do love their scenery.
StraightSilver wrote:I cannot obviously corroborate it, but I have heard that is the case from credible sources, but again stuff said over a pint isn't always that reliable, but these are people that would normally know.
And yes that is apparently why the Tyranid wave has been held up and also why GW may never make Thunderwolves. Basically the third party companies that got there first can now challenge GW over copyright, not something they would ever allow to happen.
That sounds really bad but otoh it could lead to GW not doing this whole Codexes without models thing any more if it's resulted ina big unforeseen problem like this.
Mr Mystery wrote:We all know Chapterhouse are free loading and ripping on GW's harder work, but the court case it would seem is whether or not this is legal.
Bit harsh Mystery
Sorry man, but I calls them like I see them. Chapterhourse are using someone elses designs to churn out models.
I'd have to agree with Mr Mystery. GW makes the concepts, chapterhouse swoops in and makes "decent" quality replacement models, and posts them up on their oh-so-2001 website as "totally not space marines".
Now, does GW drop the ball by not releasing all the models for their units? Yes.
However, would things suck more if GW just didn't include rules for things that they didn't have time to release models for immediately? Double yes.
Medium of Death wrote:
How can chapterhouse own concepts established by GW?
Maybe I'm missing something but I don't understand how this could be a problem:
-if the court rules that Chapterhouse don't have the right to rip off GW's concepts, then they don't.
-if the court rules that Chapterhouse has the right to rip off GW's concept, then there is nothing to stop GW from ripping off Chapterhouse's concepts. Thus, Chapterhouse producing a "Tyrannofex" can't stop others producing similar concept.
Besides, aren't distinct unit and wargear names copyrighted to GW anyway?
Names are copyrighted, but shapes aren't.
They can make a Space Marine, and call it a Galactic Soldier, but GW gets to stomp about and shout about it, like they are.
AesSedai wrote:
2) Chaos legions codex. Apparently, there will be rules for fielding forces from the various traitor legions. I've heard this rumour around before. He mentioned that part of the focus will be to highlight to differences between normal marines and warped chaos marines, both in the appearance of the model and in the organizational structure of the legion. If I recall correctly, he mentioned this as the first release of 6th edition. Also of note, Apparently a pitch to release traitor guard as a codex was put forward and rejected though the person pitching it put forth a very good proposal.
But it already is! Well actually its "Imperium of Man 40k" anyways
5th edition books
IoM Books: Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, BT/DA Updates, Grey Knights, SoB (somewhat crappy) WD article
Xeno Book: Tyranids, Dark Eldar
Skinnereal wrote:Names are copyrighted, but shapes aren't.
They can make a Space Marine, and call it a Galactic Soldier, but GW gets to stomp about and shout about it, like they are.
It's more complicated than that.
Take the Chapter House Doom Seer. It isn't part of the GW vs Chapter House case but it makes a good example.
There isn't a single element of the Doom Seer's design that isn't (a) different to the GW Far Seer models and (b) modelled on existing historical designs.
Despite that it is clearly a "not" Far Seer, based on its overall similarity to GW Far Seer models, if you have seen a GW Far Seer first.
The question the court must answer is whether GW's co-option of historical elements into an overall design is sufficiently original as to create an entirely new copyrightable work, and secondly if this has been achieved, have CH violated the putative copyright by copying the overall design with different individual elements.
CpatTom wrote:I understood. The kid is GW, and he is warning the OP that if he doesn't shut is mouth, GW's going to bury him under the world's largest pile of cocaine.
No, no, no. It's a young Charlie Sheen. Still not sure how it's relevant to the thread...
Seriously, these are not 'big stretch' rumors.
1: GW seems to change their 'design philosophy' pretty often. I kind of wonder how 'corporate' it is, and if they're susceptible to management fads like other companies...
2: There's been a ton of other rumors and I think a photo of a GW slide presentation pointing to Chaos Legions, so it's not out of the realm of possibility. Almost everyone wants it, and that probably includes a lot of GW studio folks. Most of the Studio people are gamers themselves, after all. They're passionate about parts of the setting, even if they occasionaly do horrible bad wrongfun thigns to it.
3: 6th Edition is starting to sound likely at this point. Rumor is somewhat vague, but plausible.
3.5: 6th edition box set contents are a pretty good hit/miss opportunity to see if this source is reliable.
4. Tau not being worked on for a while is a pretty safe bet based on them having a current edition.
StraightSilver wrote:It's just that Chapterhouse is attesting that it owns the copyright on a couple of GW concepts because it produced the models first. GW are challenging that but don't want to release their models in case Chapterhouse then challenge ownership.
If I was a huge multi-national gaming company that wanted to convince everyone in my niche market that my company represented the whole of the hobby (rather than a single company providing a single set of miniatures as part of the hobby), having a competitor providing cheap alternatives to my models would doubly-vex me. First, because the competitor is getting money and I'm not. But secondly, because players going to the competitor for the models I don't release are getting exposed to models for other games, and might eventually drive my players away from my game. (For the sake of this hypothetical lets assume I'm not aware that players are already fleeing my game in droves for rival companies' games.)
And if I was such a company, I would use my army of lawyers to ruthlessly harass any company whose products remotely resemble mine so as to protect myself from this. However, it would be very important that I not allow any case to go to court unless it results in a guaranteed win for my side. Because going to court would publish for all of my competitors exactly where the line they can't cross in being like my products is if I lose. And I don't want my rivals to know where that line is. I want them to err on the side of caution and stay well away from my designs. So I would want to bully other companies with the threat of lawsuits, but always get them to settle out of court.
But also, if there was ever a case where a rival got to a model design ahead of me, I would be very concerned about the risk of them taking me to court based on the similarity of our designs. Not, mind you, because I'd be afraid of them winning. My army of lawyers would have already informed me well ahead of this scenario of exactly where the legal line is. What would be problematic for me however is the prospect of me winning. Should such a case go to trial, my company winning a case of supposedly copying the designs of a rival company who release a model for my game before I did would publish where exactly the line that marks where tribute ends and copyright infringement begins just as clearly as if my rivals had won a case of copying my models. It would just as strongly invite rival companies to make products for my game and open the floodgates of 3rd party products that compete with my products. So it would be very important for me to find some way of dragging this process out until the rival runs out of money and we have to settle out of court.
Now, if during all of this, if either because of fear of being taken to court or because my company's busy release schedule had no room for the products anyway some models dearly desired by my customers weren't released, I wouldn't be above releasing a rumor (unofficially of course) that says the reason fans can't get models for two very popular lines is because of the legal concerns with the 3rd party companies. Of course the rumor would be absolute hogwash- no way would my powerful company making "the finest miniatures in the world" be dictated to by some petty upstart. But if it makes some of my fans think the reason they can't get the products they want is because a mean old rival keeps stealing my ideas, so much the better. Pretend to be a victim, make the 3rd party look like a bully that is hurting the fans. Maybe if I can turn enough sentiment against the rival, I can sink their business before my case even makes it to court.
I want to be clear, that's what I would do. In no way am I claiming this is what any company is actually doing.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and as for the boxed set, it's probably a good idea, though a bit disappointing that GW missed that fans were splitting boxes to save money. So they should be doing exactly what they are doing, only with the starter sets being half price with the terrain being an extra add-on release (maybe discount it if you buy it with a starter set).
I will not be buying either boxed set if this rumour turns out to be true.
Awesome rumors, even the delaying of the tau. I don't have enough money these days for two of my favorite armies to be released back to back. Necrons will hold me for a while. Also my chaos army will get some more wins (I hope) and will include the part of the chaos space marines I wanted. I didn't want corrupted space marines, I wanted righteous marines who realize the Emperor isn't all that, and want to challenge that idea, rid the Imperium of their old religion. Revolutionaries!
We could have foam war II king of the hill cage match. Battlefoam vs Outrider Vs KR Multicase vs Portable Warfare vs that company with display case vs Sabol vs GW vs Reaper vs Chessex vs Feldherr vs Plano.
I like the thought of a Chaos Legions book, although i was hoping for a completely new codex whcih woudl include legion rules.....
Surely if you want Chaos IG you can just run a normal guard army and add nasty spkes and stars to it, maybe chuck in some FW models to replaces Commisars etc.
Or, as stated above, use the rules in the Vraks books.
On the subject of Chaos Legions, and the chances thereof, Gav Thorpe, on this very website I do believe (may have been Whineseer though) is on record stating the current Chaos Codex, when being designed, was intended as one of several, with the additional volumes being direct 'Chapter' equivalents, pertaining to the God dedicated Legions.
Clearly this has not happened (and why is only speculation), but it does suggest that a move back to a single Chaos Codex, ala 3.5 is fairly realistic.
I seriously doubt the "rumor" that GW is withholding releases pending outcome of their litigation against chapterhouse. That litigation only affects the USA and GW has their own bottom line to concern themselves with. Also, I don't remember the Starship Troopers game causing GW to alter their design or release schedules in any way whatsoever. The existance of WWI/WWII historical miniatures hasn't affected the release schedule of GW's Imperial Guard range, either. Sorry, I just don't see anything along these lines as even being a factor in GW's decisions.
Box set? GWalways releases box sets with their new editions. It's just the way they do things. The real question is, are they going to release the traditional two-amy box set like they've been doing? Or are they going to move to two separate box sets (one for Marines and one for Chaos) as the current rumors suggest?
One more thing. Concepts and/or ideas cannot be copyrighted or owned in either the USA or UK. Just saying.
CpatTom wrote:4. Tau not being worked on for a while is a pretty safe bet based on them having a current edition.
The codex isn't even close to current, it's basically a 3.5 codex. Sisters at least got their WD update and as soon as Necron release here in October, Tau will be far out of date. We need a new codex, we need updated rules and equipment, new and better HQ's, point cost decreases, etc. I will personally be very upset if Tau don't get an update before the end of 2012 and I'd like it sooner than that to be honest. The biggest reason they're unpopular right now is precisely because of how out of date they are.
Never will you meet, even at the biggest of uber-competitive tournaments, a bunch of waacTFG rules lawyers as you will find in a large law office.
I can poke fun, cos i are one.. (well, in the business anyway. I'm not a solicitor/barrister myself, as i still have some small shred of humanity left )
I know I was apart of the 'joking crowd', but I really am appreciative of the OP I don't know if the rumors are legit or not, but ya didn't deserve the angst that went into the comments that followed.
possible, but what I dont underdstand is if you were talking to this guy over E-mail, could you not correct your post on the missing indformation that you couldn't remember?
Kreedos wrote:To credit the pile of salt, all you're doing is rambling half facts off that you heard from a guy that you met over e-mail. This guy claims to be someone's brother who works at GW, who heard it from one of the developers.
Excuse me for no believing a word of what you've said.
The best part is you managed to type a whole few paragraphs of a rumor post, without actually releasing any relevant information we haven't heard before.
You must be new here...
Having read your post further down the thread perhaps his problem isn't with people be skeptical of the rumour itself. Perhaps its people like you that like to get your little digs in while responding to his posts.
These rumours about the legion codex i've heard before but they're still pretty solid. I was told the reason we wont get traitor guard but (prepare salt) they might be in the legion codex.
As for lawyers didn't we come up with genetically creating a t rex to eat them or was that just a movie lol.
Thanks StraightSilver for your informative posts. If people want to discuss the "legal issue delay" topic further, you are invited to this thread in "General Discussion" where I reposted the relevant information: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/400952.page But be aware that the thread is not for trolling or uninformed bashing of one side or the other and I would like the mods to have a close look at this thread. We managed to have an informative and civil discussion in the chapterhouse lawsuit thread (and many other threads closed for trolling) and would like to have this thread also informative, civil and clean of trolling and bashing.
Edit: One mod locked that thread immediately, but I asked the mods to reopen it for that important discussion.
Back on topic: This rumour about one army starters has been posted before, e.g. by Blood of Kittens ( http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/377248.page ). Good to see that we might get one starter for Space marine lovers and one starter for Space marine lovers, so that everyone has a choice
Here another relevant quote from GWUK by Wade Pryce:
"Well, if I were you, I'd notice that we started doing full colour, hard backed army books after we'd done a full colour Warhammer core rulebook. So I'd be looking out for hardbacked codexes after we published a new, full colour 40K rulebook..."
I'm not fond of the one army per starter idea. With the old system, I would buy a box, and my friend would buy a box, and we would swap the unwanted halves. No loss of sales. The contents of the starter box for the individual forces is a joke relative to the size of an 1850 or 2000 point list. Unless they drastically increase the number of units, I cant see this being a good idea. I am not going to buy 2 boxes, thats just silly. Chucking in a bunch of terrain, no matter how spiffy, is just going to flood ebay with a bunch of unwanted trees and wall corners.
I have both Chaos and loyalist Marine armies and would have prefered to be able to supplmement both lists simultaneously. Now I will have to pick one.
I really do hope the Legion book is a reality. I would like a bit more variety for my Thousand Son list than 27 Marines and 9 Terminators (Plus some odds and ends) than I have now.
Mr Mystery wrote:On the subject of Chaos Legions, and the chances thereof, Gav Thorpe, on this very website I do believe (may have been Whineseer though) is on record stating the current Chaos Codex, when being designed, was intended as one of several, with the additional volumes being direct 'Chapter' equivalents, pertaining to the God dedicated Legions.
Clearly this has not happened (and why is only speculation), but it does suggest that a move back to a single Chaos Codex, ala 3.5 is fairly realistic.
You know, I used to really be against the idea of multiple Chaos codexes. Ultimately, it just means longer waits between updates. However, if the earlier rumors about a WD update for the current Chaos codex is true, I'd probably be ok with it. But regardless of what codex it falls into, there needs to be cultists/traitor guard represented in some capacity.
I'd prefer a large, single book like C:SMs got that allows lots of different builds. But if that's not the case, which recent rumors seem to indicate, I'm curious in what capacity, if any, different factions can be aligned.
I, for one, am super excited that the Dark Angels seem to be getting done soon (either starter set or soon after 6th from ALL the rumors I've read, not just this one). I love my little Emo Marines and their Big Dark Secret, seriously.
I also hope we get some sweet new units (like jetbikes) and would even accept it if we got the Dark Guard, wearing Dark Armor, wielding Dark Blades, and riding Jetbikes of Darkness. I'll just be happy to have a new codex.
I heard a rumor that Grot 6 pulled out a couple of boxes out of the cave and was digging through them and found a bunch of old RT era orks.
Combined with the RT books he found, hes now trying to cobble them back into service and get a proper mini mob back up. Something hooked him into looking over those guys to change his mind, the crazy git.
Don't know where he heard that from, but last time I thought he hated GW's Gak to bother with them anymore.....
Two marine armies in a starter set? I don't know, while it would be good for some players, surely people who were new to the hobby would find it hard to differentiate between the two?
Commander Cain wrote:Two marine armies in a starter set? I don't know, while it would be good for some players, surely people who were new to the hobby would find it hard to differentiate between the two?
Commander Cain wrote:Two marine armies in a starter set? I don't know, while it would be good for some players, surely people who were new to the hobby would find it hard to differentiate between the two?
Simple, one has spiky bits, the other doesn't.
They could do it in a similar fashion to their Space Hulk game - Make one set of units in red plastic, the other in blue/purple. Then people would readily tell the mini's apart pre-paintjob.
I suppose with the right quantity of spiky bits versus robes, one would be able to spot the difference more easily, daemons would also help set the two apart
So what you're saying is if GW did release a full-fledged Lost and the Damned army, you wouldn't buy it. So it would be a waste of their time to even try.
I am unsure if this is going to happen or not. If it does, then I would be confused as to why two armies with outdated codices are in the starter set. Unless they're the first to get updated for six ed.
Hmmmmmmmmmmm... In regards to the separate starter sets, I can see a couple of potential flaws that might prevent GW going down that path (although this is GW we're talking about...).
Based on the price of their current starter set they probably won't make it a loss leader like it should be (given its purpose), and so I don't think that two separate new starters would be priced very well for what you get, and putting together two opposing sides might be quite pricey. And while two separate sets would be good for an established gamer since they can get what they want, for its purpose it would be a bit lacking.
I would have thought that they'd want it as one box so that a 12-14 year old might get given it for Christmas or something, and then be able to drag it out when a friend is around, introducing him/her to the game. Otherwise potential marks- I mean customers will already have to be aware of the game and each be willing to spend however much to buy a starter box to be able to play against each other. Just think it might kind of defeat the point.
(just like to say, I have absolutely no business background and am probably right off the mark).
As for the other rumour, about a complete lack of Tau, I am unhappy, yet unsurprised. We better not end up in a Necron or DE situation!
Actually the problem I see with separate starter sets is that if one is popular and another isn't you could see stacks and stacks of one type of starter-set sitting in inventory around the world gathering dust.
On that factor alone I'd say it is a bad idea.
I mean, I'm ok with the idea on the face of it, but in the long-run (something GW seemingly has no concept of), treating starter-sets like quasi-Battle Forces is a bad idea (no matter how much I want more terrain!).
[EDIT]:Unless, of course, they went the whole hog and scrapped Battle Forces completely, replacing them all with 'starter kits' for each army. Now that would be a little wasteful (from a dice/mini-rulebook/templates) perspective, but it would be pretty cool.
The thread at Whineseer wrote:The reply was that they were changing to try and do a single major release for as much as possible with only some Special Characters being delayed as they can be troublesome to get right. Ogre Kingdoms was used as the example of this.
Right, so after a couple of years of experimenting it we're abandoning the 'wave' release method and going back to the way it was for 3rd and most of 4th. Ok...
The thread at Whineseer wrote:He further elaborated that they won't be discarding and races, as they learnt from their mistake with Squats (and he did specifically call it a mistake) and that they realise now that "they can't pretend like things didn't exist".
*cough* Lost and the mother fething Damned *cough*
The thread at Whineseer wrote:He further elaborated that they won't be discarding and races, as they learnt from their mistake with Squats (and he did specifically call it a mistake) and that they realise now that "they can't pretend like things didn't exist".
*cough* Lost and the mother fething Damned *cough*
I am still so very, very bitter over that. I mean I'll do a codex for them for GW as a freelancer if they sodding want. Hmm but then ofcourse they have the problem of suddenly their other codices look terrible.
On the Tau in desperate need thing they've seen fine to me playing them, now nids could do with one. They just don't want eldar updated as once they were then marines suddenly get beat, even jesus marines, as it is they stand a chance!
I dunno, footdar actually does surprisingly well these days. I wouldn't whine too much about elfdar.
And eldar had their time in the sun and then some in 4th ed. If I see another wave serpent list I might have post traumatic flashbacks.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote:Oh great...
The thread at Whineseer wrote:The reply was that they were changing to try and do a single major release for as much as possible with only some Special Characters being delayed as they can be troublesome to get right. Ogre Kingdoms was used as the example of this.
Right, so after a couple of years of experimenting it we're abandoning the 'wave' release method and going back to the way it was for 3rd and most of 4th. Ok...
Shouldn't you be happy? Isn't that exactly what you want? Give GW credit where credit is due.
ph34r wrote:I dunno, footdar actually does surprisingly well these days. I wouldn't whine too much about elfdar.
And eldar had their time in the sun and then some in 4th ed. If I see another wave serpent list I might have post traumatic flashbacks.
Every army has their time in the sun with a new codex though. But I'd like to see armies last longer than a codex, and still be useful in the next edition. Arguably Eldar have done, granted several entries can be seen as over costed, with the big problem being it is their dedicated transport. But in a way going back to playing armies similar to what I'd have used in 2nd ed is nostalgic for me .
Oh and marines always have their day in the sun, they are the poster boys after all.
Eldar have slightly over-costed vehicles and heavy weapons. If they were lowered a bit the codex would be really competitive again. It's still a pretty good codex though, and doesn't need an update as bad as necrons, tau, or csm.
Only sort of ph34r. My problems with the 'wave' mentality for product releases was more a matter of how it was done rather than the concept itself.
Let me explain:
2nd Ed - There would be a 40K release of some sort every month. In most cases, except the months surrounding a Codex release, these releases were pretty much random. You never knew what was coming, which wasn't that much of a problem, but you never knew if something was coming, and that was an issue. So while it was great that one day GW decided to release a stack of Marine Librarian models to replace the aging Rogue Trader era models that were mostly unavailable at that stage, you were always left wondering things like "Will there ever be a Sentinel model?" or "I know there once was a Battle Wagon model... but will there ever be one again?"
The benefits of this were obvious - things got released all the time. The downsides were equally as obvious - there was never any guarantee that a particular model would ever get a release.
3rd Ed - This was the era of major splash releases and then bone-dry nothing for years at a time. Your Codex would come out, all the required models would come out***, but you better be happy with that because that's all you were getting until the next time they did your Codex.
The good side to this is that you were left with very few gaps (except Special Characters). The Dark Eldar, gak as the range was, had models for everything. The Tau and Necrons got models for every unit in their Codex. Tyranids got new creatures, and no gaps. It was wonderful... sort of. I mean, you would never get anything new for years, but at least you didn't have holes in your line***, right?
4th Ed - Pretty much the same as 3rd, except this time around we get a slow process of swapping metal kits, and especially metal/plastic hybrid kits, with full plastic kits.
End of 4th Ed/5th Ed through to now - Enter the wave!
Now rather than getting a big splash release that fills all the holes in the list, and gives models for anything new, we get wave releases. Ok, there are some really obvious benefits here - staggered releases over a longer period of time, which means that your army can always be assured to have something new over the next 18-24 months after the Codex's initial release. I can live with that, and it's far better than the model dump from 3rd/most of 4th.
Unfortunately, this concept immediately falls apart because it's GW that's enacting it. Instead of a steady stream of releases that fills the Codex's unit choices out as the months go buy we get longer and longer gaps between releases, and some things that just never get releases. We're essentially back to the way 2nd Ed was, only with less LOL-random fun and more "I'm happy to wait but I'd like to know if I'm ever going to get a Shrike/Wartrakk/[Insert missing Warhammer Fantasy choices here - probably something from the Beastman book]?"
And now they want to ditch that approach and go back to the unit-dump 3rd Ed method? It's swinging that pendulum again and avoiding a middle ground approach. If GW is good at anything it's the way and the amount of force they use to swing that pendulum. Applies to everything - fluff, rules, release schedules and methods, interactions with the fan base, and so on.
So I'll give credit where credit's due. Unit-dumps were kinda nice, at least initially, until the realisation that you were in an update wasteland for the next 4-6 years, and the wave system is a great concept (but was executed poorly).
Does that all make more sense now?
*** Orks are always the exception to this. For some reason they never get to have everything in their book no matter what edition they come from. I think the theory is that by 7th Edition they'll have a model for everything that's in the Codex today, but not necessarily everything that's in the Codex by 7th Ed.
I understood. The kid is GW, and he is warning the OP that if he doesn't shut is mouth, GW's going to bury him under the world's largest pile of cocaine.
ph34r wrote:I dunno, footdar actually does surprisingly well these days. I wouldn't whine too much about elfdar.
And eldar had their time in the sun and then some in 4th ed. If I see another wave serpent list I might have post traumatic flashbacks.
Every army has their time in the sun with a new codex though. But I'd like to see armies last longer than a codex, and still be useful in the next edition. Arguably Eldar have done, granted several entries can be seen as over costed, with the big problem being it is their dedicated transport. But in a way going back to playing armies similar to what I'd have used in 2nd ed is nostalgic for me .
Oh and marines always have their day in the sun, they are the poster boys after all.
Not really. No new codex has run as rampant as wave serpent "35/36 of the time I don't care about damage results" Eldar. Uhg.
ph34r wrote:
And eldar had their time in the sun and then some in 4th ed.
I'm not trying to pick an argument with you personally - but looking at things in this way is a sort of games workshop stockholm syndrome. Codexes should not be designed and released in an increasing spiral of powerful rules. The goal should be for all the books to be balanced against each other and full of interesting options, each equally competitive. Not for each book to enjoy time as blatantly better than the rest, until it is superseded.
Who am I kidding though, it'll never happen. All hail our glorious overlords and their mighty release schedule!
ph34r wrote:
And eldar had their time in the sun and then some in 4th ed.
I'm not trying to pick an argument with you personally - but looking at things in this way is a sort of games workshop stockholm syndrome. Codexes should not be designed and released in an increasing spiral of powerful rules. The goal should be for all the books to be balanced against each other and full of interesting options, each equally competitive. Not for each book to enjoy time as blatantly better than the rest, until it is superseded.
Who am I kidding though, it'll never happen. All hail our glorious overlords and their mighty release schedule!
??????
Nothing I said suggested that I think all codexes should get more and more powerful.
ph34r wrote:I dunno, footdar actually does surprisingly well these days. I wouldn't whine too much about elfdar.
And eldar had their time in the sun and then some in 4th ed. If I see another wave serpent list I might have post traumatic flashbacks.
Every army has their time in the sun with a new codex though. But I'd like to see armies last longer than a codex, and still be useful in the next edition. Arguably Eldar have done, granted several entries can be seen as over costed, with the big problem being it is their dedicated transport. But in a way going back to playing armies similar to what I'd have used in 2nd ed is nostalgic for me .
Oh and marines always have their day in the sun, they are the poster boys after all.
Not really. No new codex has run as rampant as wave serpent "35/36 of the time I don't care about damage results" Eldar. Uhg.
Hmm, if their holo fields worked like the ones on falcons I could see the point, but with them having to accept whatever came up for them on the damage table I assume you mean holofield/spirit stones falcons? Admittedly they were nasty, what with str 6 weapons being classed as defensive too .
But ofcourse, we can't have a codex better than space marines thought GW
And codexes getting more and more powerful? Hmm codex creep so people HAVE to run a couple of armies spaced evenly along the update cycle and NEED to update them with new models each times? Erm, I'll pass, codex creep is the number 1 reason I stopped playing as much. Lets us hope GW realise its going to cost them more sales when people leave so they introduce some semblance of balance...
Vermillion wrote:Hmm, if their holo fields worked like the ones on falcons I could see the point, but with them having to accept whatever came up for them on the damage table I assume you mean holofield/spirit stones falcons? Admittedly they were nasty, what with str 6 weapons being classed as defensive too .
But ofcourse, we can't have a codex better than space marines thought GW
Back in 4th flat out movement was glancing only.
Glancing only + reroll on damage chart = the only way to kill you was a glancing 6 for immobilized, followed by another glancing 6 for another immobilized.
ph34r wrote:
And eldar had their time in the sun and then some in 4th ed.
I'm not trying to pick an argument with you personally - but looking at things in this way is a sort of games workshop stockholm syndrome. Codexes should not be designed and released in an increasing spiral of powerful rules. The goal should be for all the books to be balanced against each other and full of interesting options, each equally competitive. Not for each book to enjoy time as blatantly better than the rest, until it is superseded.
Who am I kidding though, it'll never happen. All hail our glorious overlords and their mighty release schedule!
??????
Nothing I said suggested that I think all codexes should get more and more powerful.
I know you didn't say that. My point is that your comment implied that a codex had its day as the most powerful when it was new, and now it can be left to sink lower and lower in the rankings. And that's not ideal. It shouldn't even be an issue, because all codexes should be equally powerful. I'm not accusing you of any wrongthink, I'm saying that the way the rules are released is wrong - as a group 40k players accept and plan around the idea that the new codexes are always better than the old.
I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly wrote:I know you didn't say that. My point is that your comment implied that a codex had its day as the most powerful when it was new, and now it can be left to sink lower and lower in the rankings. And that's not ideal. It shouldn't even be an issue, because all codexes should be equally powerful. I'm not accusing you of any wrongthink, I'm saying that the way the rules are released is wrong - as a group 40k players accept and plan around the idea that the new codexes are always better than the old.
It was best back then because 4th edition came out and made it unstoppable.
Well, actually I think the eldar codex came along in 2006, after 4th edition (which was 2005). But that's a related issue - new rulebooks come along and turn the intended design of codexes (which were never that great to start with) on their heads, but we are all so used to this crocked system we just roll with it.
Sidstyler wrote:So what you're saying is if GW did release a full-fledged Lost and the Damned army, you wouldn't buy it. So it would be a waste of their time to even try.
Having spent hundreds of dollars and hours on the one I built before that GW kindly nuked out of existance, yes I would have serious reservations.
OF course the allure of new plastic crack can be strong...
Sidstyler wrote:So what you're saying is if GW did release a full-fledged Lost and the Damned army, you wouldn't buy it. So it would be a waste of their time to even try.
Having spent hundreds of dollars and hours on the one I built before that GW kindly nuked out of existance, yes I would have serious reservations.
OF course the allure of new plastic crack can be strong...
I really hope they don't release a full-fledged Lost and the Damned army. The options, or similar options should be in a chaos 'Dex. I really don't want the game to turn into, Space Marines WITH SPIKES, Eldar WITH SPIKES and then Imperial guard WITH SPIKES!"
Sidstyler wrote:So what you're saying is if GW did release a full-fledged Lost and the Damned army, you wouldn't buy it. So it would be a waste of their time to even try.
Having spent hundreds of dollars and hours on the one I built before that GW kindly nuked out of existance, yes I would have serious reservations.
OF course the allure of new plastic crack can be strong...
I really hope they don't release a full-fledged Lost and the Damned army. The options, or similar options should be in a chaos 'Dex. I really don't want the game to turn into, Space Marines WITH SPIKES, Eldar WITH SPIKES and then Imperial guard WITH SPIKES!"
I would really like to see a big focus on Lost and the Damned in the alledged Chaos Renegades book. This would differentiate it from the focus on Chaos Astartes in the Legions codex, and weakened chapters of originally 1000 - 1200 men gone rogue are not going to survive if they solely use Astartes in their operations. Renegade humans, mutants, degenerates and even xenos would be essential to a rogue chapter for its survival.
Deathly Angel wrote:I would really like to see a big focus on Lost and the Damned in the alledged Chaos Renegades book.
The rumor going around is the the current Chaos Space Marines codex is the Chaos Renegades book and a supposed Chaos Legions book will flesh out the actual legions when it comes out.
Deathly Angel wrote:I would really like to see a big focus on Lost and the Damned in the alledged Chaos Renegades book.
The rumor going around is the the current Chaos Space Marines codex is the Chaos Renegades book and a supposed Chaos Legions book will flesh out the actual legions when it comes out.
Ah yes, I've seen those rumours, but personally I really think that this would be impractical, as the Legions codex will render it obsolete if it isn't changed. IMO it will either be supplanted with a bigger, better CSM codex or updated, as it's lack of Chaos flavour will result in people basing their renegade chapters on the Legions book anyway. The Chaos codex is currently too outdated not to be changed alongside the Legions book, and five of its special characters are the 'big 5' from the original Legions as it is.
I still cling to the hope that it won't just be settled with a White Dwarf update.
The thread at Whineseer wrote:The reply was that they were changing to try and do a single major release for as much as possible with only some Special Characters being delayed as they can be troublesome to get right. Ogre Kingdoms was used as the example of this.
Right, so after a couple of years of experimenting it we're abandoning the 'wave' release method and going back to the way it was for 3rd and most of 4th. Ok...
The thread at Whineseer wrote:He further elaborated that they won't be discarding and races, as they learnt from their mistake with Squats (and he did specifically call it a mistake) and that they realise now that "they can't pretend like things didn't exist".
*cough* Lost and the mother fething Damned *cough*
Although, it is possible to field a Lost & Damned style army (with, if anything, more variety) using the FW: Imperial Armour books. Although looking at the variety of people still lamenting the loss of Codex: eye of terror, I think those IA books are one of GW's best kept secrets :(
If anyone isn't aware, books 5-7 for the Chaos lists (basic, khorne and nurgle) and 9-10 function well for anyone wanting to mix power armour with Imperial guard. I think all in all there is a massive variety possible and if you use a bit of imagination.
Thanks OP! I find this rather more beleivable than most rumor posts, and would LOVE to see a Chaos Marines legion codex...if for no other reason than so I can hunt down Thousand Sons players and use all my Space Wolf skills to destroy them! Muahaha! Sad to see that you caught so much crap earlier from the Trolls and such. And also, if a CSM vs Marines box set came out, Id be first in line for sure. Like maybe using the DA and possibly one of the newly defined CSM legions from that said codex that may come out. I would love a box set that was evened out like that. ^.^
H.B.M.C. wrote:Only sort of ph34r. My problems with the 'wave' mentality for product releases was more a matter of how it was done rather than the concept itself.
Let me explain:
2nd Ed - There would be a 40K release of some sort every month. In most cases, except the months surrounding a Codex release, these releases were pretty much random. You never knew what was coming, which wasn't that much of a problem, but you never knew if something was coming, and that was an issue. So while it was great that one day GW decided to release a stack of Marine Librarian models to replace the aging Rogue Trader era models that were mostly unavailable at that stage, you were always left wondering things like "Will there ever be a Sentinel model?" or "I know there once was a Battle Wagon model... but will there ever be one again?"
The benefits of this were obvious - things got released all the time. The downsides were equally as obvious - there was never any guarantee that a particular model would ever get a release.
3rd Ed - This was the era of major splash releases and then bone-dry nothing for years at a time. Your Codex would come out, all the required models would come out***, but you better be happy with that because that's all you were getting until the next time they did your Codex.
The good side to this is that you were left with very few gaps (except Special Characters). The Dark Eldar, gak as the range was, had models for everything. The Tau and Necrons got models for every unit in their Codex. Tyranids got new creatures, and no gaps. It was wonderful... sort of. I mean, you would never get anything new for years, but at least you didn't have holes in your line***, right?
4th Ed - Pretty much the same as 3rd, except this time around we get a slow process of swapping metal kits, and especially metal/plastic hybrid kits, with full plastic kits.
End of 4th Ed/5th Ed through to now - Enter the wave!
Now rather than getting a big splash release that fills all the holes in the list, and gives models for anything new, we get wave releases. Ok, there are some really obvious benefits here - staggered releases over a longer period of time, which means that your army can always be assured to have something new over the next 18-24 months after the Codex's initial release. I can live with that, and it's far better than the model dump from 3rd/most of 4th.
Unfortunately, this concept immediately falls apart because it's GW that's enacting it. Instead of a steady stream of releases that fills the Codex's unit choices out as the months go buy we get longer and longer gaps between releases, and some things that just never get releases. We're essentially back to the way 2nd Ed was, only with less LOL-random fun and more "I'm happy to wait but I'd like to know if I'm ever going to get a Shrike/Wartrakk/[Insert missing Warhammer Fantasy choices here - probably something from the Beastman book]?"
And now they want to ditch that approach and go back to the unit-dump 3rd Ed method? It's swinging that pendulum again and avoiding a middle ground approach. If GW is good at anything it's the way and the amount of force they use to swing that pendulum. Applies to everything - fluff, rules, release schedules and methods, interactions with the fan base, and so on.
So I'll give credit where credit's due. Unit-dumps were kinda nice, at least initially, until the realisation that you were in an update wasteland for the next 4-6 years, and the wave system is a great concept (but was executed poorly).
Does that all make more sense now?
*** Orks are always the exception to this. For some reason they never get to have everything in their book no matter what edition they come from. I think the theory is that by 7th Edition they'll have a model for everything that's in the Codex today, but not necessarily everything that's in the Codex by 7th Ed.
I cannot recall comment on anything before 3rd edition but I feel you are leaving some things out.
3rd edition had Chapter Approved which brought new units into existing armies (Seekers of Slaanesh, Tau with Rail Rifles, et cetra) or variants on existing armies (Kroot Mercenaries, Feral Orks, et cetra).
There were also child codices like Eldar Craftworlds or Catachan, that could add another twist to your parent codex army.
Some armies also would receive errata to bring them into line with other armies by adjusting point costs or units (Dark Angels and Dark Eldar, codex).
Campaign books and other supplements brought more child armies into play Codex: Armageddon had the Salamander rule set and one of the Index Astares had the White Scars rule set (this may have been a White Dwarf reprint though).
Games Workshop also flirted with online play testing between the first and second, Codex: Chaos Marines in 3rd edition with trial rules on their website (I remember cultists mobs, and Rubric Marines immune to < S4 weapons).
Model wise a lot of this was up to you to convert but also at the time the GW website still had their bits section to help out.
ph34r - wave serpents didnt get a damage "reroll", as theycant take holofields. Youre thinking holofields + spirit + SMF. Also you could wreck them as a glancing "6" on the glancing table was Wrecked (i/.e. no boom) - so you needed a 6,6 to do it. Not sure where youre getting "6" being immobilised from ?
Holo's are worse than rerolls, from an opponents persepective, as you get to see both results and choose the lower, rather than getting a 3 and rerolling it to a 6, for example you see {3,6} and choose (well, have it chosen for you) the 3 result.
The ubiquitous flying circus army of 4th (triple falcon, triple harlie) exploited everything that was wrong about 4th eds way of working. Everything.
Well, I used falcons and still do because I like the model. Have done each army, same with vypers, admittedly not so much now, some rules just go against you too much.
Here's hoping they dont bump falcons up again and fire dragons and striking scorpions else people may cry cheese at me
Deathly Angel wrote: Ah yes, I've seen those rumours, but personally I really think that this would be impractical, as the Legions codex will render it obsolete if it isn't changed. IMO it will either be supplanted with a bigger, better CSM codex or updated, as it's lack of Chaos flavour will result in people basing their renegade chapters on the Legions book anyway. The Chaos codex is currently too outdated not to be changed alongside the Legions book, and five of its special characters are the 'big 5' from the original Legions as it is.
I still cling to the hope that it won't just be settled with a White Dwarf update.
I think that will be most likely though.
That or they will ignore the situation, just leave us with Legions and sometime down the road will pop up with, 'oh by the way here is the new Chaos Renegades book.' Traitor Guard in some form however would be very nice.
Combine CSM and guard cedexes, leave out any guard stuff that could be seen as requiring too much maintenence and not use anything too elite from CSM like defiler, terminators? *sobs for the LatD list now squatted*
According to my source, I was told 6th is "right around the corner" something like 2 codex's away (necrons, eldar OR necrons, DA OR even a combination of the three). Later, the same news appeared in the GD Aus. thread. According to that thread, 6th is coming next year.
nosferatu1001 wrote:ph34r - wave serpents didnt get a damage "reroll", as theycant take holofields. Youre thinking holofields + spirit + SMF. Also you could wreck them as a glancing "6" on the glancing table was Wrecked (i/.e. no boom) - so you needed a 6,6 to do it. Not sure where youre getting "6" being immobilised from ?
Holo's are worse than rerolls, from an opponents persepective, as you get to see both results and choose the lower, rather than getting a 3 and rerolling it to a 6, for example you see {3,6} and choose (well, have it chosen for you) the 3 result.
The ubiquitous flying circus army of 4th (triple falcon, triple harlie) exploited everything that was wrong about 4th eds way of working. Everything.
Right, 6 to destroy, holofields + spirit stones + skimmer moving fast. Back then immobilization didn't kill you.
nosferatu1001 wrote:ph34r - wave serpents didnt get a damage "reroll", as theycant take holofields. Youre thinking holofields + spirit + SMF. Also you could wreck them as a glancing "6" on the glancing table was Wrecked (i/.e. no boom) - so you needed a 6,6 to do it. Not sure where youre getting "6" being immobilised from ?
Holo's are worse than rerolls, from an opponents persepective, as you get to see both results and choose the lower, rather than getting a 3 and rerolling it to a 6, for example you see {3,6} and choose (well, have it chosen for you) the 3 result.
The ubiquitous flying circus army of 4th (triple falcon, triple harlie) exploited everything that was wrong about 4th eds way of working. Everything.
Right, 6 to destroy, holofields + spirit stones + skimmer moving fast. Back then immobilization didn't kill you.
Well, it did, (provided you were moving >6", which is what activated the 'glancing hits only' rule, but eldar have an upgrade that negates that. Yeah, it was a very annoying rules combination.
One thing that interests me is that army probably would not dominate today even if the same skimmer rules were in place. Harlequins are worse now because rending is worse, but more than that, recent codexes just have such gnarly assault units and access to good invulnerable saves that harlequins wouldn't be the game winners they once were. If the broken combination was still in place, I think it would be used the same way (downgraded) falcons are now, to keep scoring units alive.
ph34r - you said 6 was immobilised (as in, needed to immobilise it twice), yet a glancing 6 wasnt - that was glancing 5. Also skimmers WERE destroyed on an immobilised result if they were SMF, so they had to take yet another upgrade to stop that occuring if they wanted to - most lists i saw didnt bother.
Also waveserpents didnt (and dont) get holofields - youre mixing WS and Falcons up now. WS get the annoying energy field that my vindicare hates with a passion.
nosferatu1001 wrote:ph34r - you said 6 was immobilised (as in, needed to immobilise it twice), yet a glancing 6 wasnt - that was glancing 5. Also skimmers WERE destroyed on an immobilised result if they were SMF, so they had to take yet another upgrade to stop that occuring if they wanted to - most lists i saw didnt bother.
Also waveserpents didnt (and dont) get holofields - youre mixing WS and Falcons up now. WS get the annoying energy field that my vindicare hates with a passion.
I literally just agreed with you. Read my post next time you feel the need to re-explain.
nosferatu1001 wrote:ph34r - you said 6 was immobilised (as in, needed to immobilise it twice), yet a glancing 6 wasnt - that was glancing 5. Also skimmers WERE destroyed on an immobilised result if they were SMF, so they had to take yet another upgrade to stop that occuring if they wanted to - most lists i saw didnt bother.
Also waveserpents didnt (and dont) get holofields - youre mixing WS and Falcons up now. WS get the annoying energy field that my vindicare hates with a passion.
I literally just agreed with you. Read my post next time you feel the need to re-explain.
"back then immobilization didn't kill you. "
Yes it did, if you were SMF.
Additionally the Glancing table had a wrecked result on a 6, with immob on a 5. So if the Skimmer went fast, you could wreck it on a glancing 5 or 6.
You got some basic 4th ed rules wrong there, you didnt "literally just agree", you got some bits wrong. You also think that WS have holofields...
Hope the focus on some armies besides marines...tired of fighting marines V marines or guard V SM. Getting a bit boring. Have to admit my lack of waiting to play has improved my painting skills
i was hoping i would get some love like in the next 6 
