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Made in us
Been Around the Block





Enjoy
http://bloodofkittens.com/network/members/rideroftheerk/activity/14616/

* first 6th edition codexes, but release before or with rulebook, small release with single or two waves: Black Templars (1 waves: 2x plactic, 2x Finecast), Tau (1 wave: 3x plastic boxes, 4x Finecast), Necrons (2 waves)

* first real 6th edition codex: Codex Chaos Legions, really big release in three waves, doesn’t invalidate Codex Chaos Space Marines which gets extensive White Dwarf update as Codex Renegade Space Marines

* two starter sets, each with rules, dices, movement markers, mission booklet, one with Dark Angels and fitting scenery, the other with Black Legion and Chaos scenery. You can combine both to play the campaign or use one set alone to play a selection of dumbed down scenarios against every other force, first starter set that comes with a model for a well established special character

* 6th edition is finished rulewise for some time now, the overall goal is to fix some of the long time problems of the game system. Expect a lot more fundamental improvements than last edition. The rules were even more ambitious at some stage of development, but didn’t get approved as they were too far away from the established rules. The main designer left company and his successors brought the rules back in line with the existing codexes. The rules are nonetheless a bigger step forward than from 4th to 5th. Changes are so big that the next edition relies partial on erratas to fix old codexes. Development relied heavily on feedback of veteran playtesters. You can see some results of this new approach by the way the FAQs were handled in the last months. All codexes since Codex Tyranids were written with the new rules in mind, especially the new mission and reserve structure.

* The main design goals are: one book to rule them all, heroic characters, visceral combat, streamlined mechanism, cleaned up presentation and strategy before chance

* strong narrative focus on Chaos, perspective shifting from the Empire to the struggle between free races and the Warp

* the biggest rule changes:
- similar ballistic to hit chart as wound chart: compare BS to target’s speed and unit type. BS 3 hits moving infantry on 4+, but lightning fast jetbikes on 6+ and stationary tank on 2+… HUGE
- victory points are back, but with another twist: you get two victory points if an unit holds an objective for an entire game turn, if a scoring unit holds one, you get three and one if you destroy a squad leader or vehicle
- before the game there is a bidding contest for the opportunity of the first turn, if you bid more strategic points you can go first, but the enemy can spent these points on stratagems as in Cities of Death: 22 generic stratagems – for example for one point you can decide on night fighting or place an automatic gun, for four you can shift your reserves, most expensive stratagems are at 12 points and are really drastic, every unspent point can be used once a game for a reroll
- new turn sequence: prepare-movement-assault-shooting-consolidate
new phase “consolidate” phase for random movements, jetpack movements, pursuits, morale checks/effects and resolving shooting reactions
assault before shooting – big units are real roadblocks!<<

Some more examples for the development doctrines
One rulebook for all:
- flyer rules are incorporated in the main rules
- narrative rule section that expands core rules: formations, super heavies, gaining experience
- modular rules, core rules can easily be expanded by narratives rules or another expansion set

Heroic characters:
- independent characters more powerful, armour save and invulnerable save at the same time
- squad leaders more important, no more 50% rallying threshold, unit can rally as long as squad leader lives
- independent characters can snipe

More visceral combat:
- standard cover only 5+ now, Feel No Pain (1) only on 5+
- slow slogging units very vulnerable
- some weapon types are specialized in taking out specific unit types and are incredible good at doing this (sniper vs. infantry without armour), but on the other hand ordnance vs flyer isn’t going to do much

streamlined:
- no more random movement at all
- 5 general types of psychic powers
- wound allocation like 4th edition on unit basis, but attacker can chose every 5th wound to go to a single model (sniper weapon every second wound)
- artillery is normal immobile vehicle squadron, crew has no other game purpose than to be a counter for rate of fire and attacks

clean up of combusted rules:
- there are tiers for most of the special rules. Instant Death (2) circumvents Eternal Warrior (1) for example. Feel No Pain (1) is 5+, Feel No Pain (2) is 4+ and Feel No Pain (3) is 3+. If no value is given, the special rule is tier 1.
- no more difference between leadership test and morale test
- terrain rules on a single page, true line of sight, non-vehicles models are ignored altogether, rules for special terrain like bunkers, ruins or deathworld mangroves in narrative rule section

less randomness, more strategic options:
- more elaborate reserve rules, can nominate turn of arrvial and has only small change to arrive earlier or later, or can intervene behind enemy lines, arrives randomly but can hinder enemy reserves, must be distributed evenly between turn two and three, later arrivals only randomly
-no more random game length
-no roll for first turn
-deep striking units more than 18” from enemy away don’t scatter, but landing in 6” is much more dangerous
- movement impairing effects from pinning weapons even if morale check is passed (if roll is above halved Ld), Fearless not immune to this, but only effected if rolled over full Ld
- more reactions to shooting than going to the ground depending on unit type and special rules. bikes can evade (3+ cover as same as before, but cannot assault or shoot next turn), jump troops can fly high, units with Stealth can attempt to vanish, …

-rideroftheerk

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/19 17:46:33


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






On a boat, Trying not to die.

This sounds more like wishlisting than rules, IMHO.

Every Normal Man Must Be Tempted At Times To Spit On His Hands, Hoist That Black Flag, And Begin Slitting Throats. 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

Call me hesitant, but "Codex Chaos Legions" and "Codex Renegade Marines" is something I keep talking about in wishlisting threads...

Hell, even the starter idea sounds like something I've posted up before.

I'd be okay with a Dark Angels starter set though.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Biloxi, MS USA

Chowderhead wrote:This sounds more like wishlisting than rules, IMHO.


Indeed. I really don't see GW going with a lot of this. Some, if true is either a huge change for change's sake or is a huge disappointment.

Not buying the rumors and would be very meh about the game if true.

You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie
The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




SHENANIGANS!
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Biloxi, MS USA

Kanluwen wrote:I'd be okay with a Dark Angels starter set though.


I would too, but I also don't see GW doing PP style starters.

You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie
The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was 
   
Made in gb
Dangerous Outrider






And if most of that is true, going to make 40k an ugly game to play. :/

Armies | Space Marines (Void Knights - Own Chapter), Space Wolves & Dark Angels | Imperial Guard Cadian and Kasrikin | Grey Knight/Sisters/Inquisitors | Empire - Hochland | Britanan (Relics) | Mordor & Gondor |

Hello, although I'm a static Zero.
I'm fighting all your wars.

Warning: These miniatures contain lead and should not be chewed or swallowed.

These Miniatures may well be miscast... 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Lincolnshire, UK

I'm really not sure what to make of this, but I don't believe the bit about Chaos Legions and the starter sets at least. Along with rules just widely introduced (such as TLoS) being dropped.

As I said, I'm really not sure what to make of this.

Provides no release date/estimate...

Enlist as a virtual Ultramarine! Click here for my Chaos Gate (PC) thread.

"It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of."
- Roboute Guilliman

"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now."
- Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






Wow, there is so much BS in this list I don't even know where to start. The clearest thing that would show that it is all BS is the whole change to the Hit Chart. They have used the same chart for all their games for 30 years. I don't see them changing a fundamental part of the game now.

As the above poster said- Shenanigans!
   
Made in gb
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/19 17:46:28



Games Workshop Delenda Est.

Users on ignore- 53.

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in us
One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm




Codex Chaos Legions would be so awesome, and is what the Chaos Marine dex should be anyways. I mean Loyalists get multiple dexes, why can't the love spread to the fallen legions?

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Starter Set thing seems particularly off. Whole idea behind the current set(s) is that not just you, but a friend can play, with just a single set.

Yup, I'm happy to write this off for sure.

Also, Alfhedil, I believe (according to Gav Thorpe) that was the intention when he did the current book.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





While I think some of these ideas are great (though I think some seem downright silly) I can see them taken as a whole slowing the game down. That would be a definite change in direction for GW. If making all these changes, why not re-introduce Overwatch? Given the nature of some of these alleged changes, overwatch wouldn't add any complexity or slow things down much more than attacker allocating 1 in 5 wounds or tallying VPs turn to turn. Assault before shooting is probably the most interesting alleged change (and actually not a bad one, potentially)

Choose an army you can love, even when it loses - Phil Barker
 
   
Made in us
Myrmidon Officer





NC

Assault before shooting would fundamentally change the game itself. My Tyranids wouldn't mind.

Streamlining is nice and all, but even the somewhat experienced players already memorized the to-hit and to-wound charts. The main problem of the I-Go-U-Go structure is one player rolling buckets of dice where the other watches. Putting assault mid-turn is one step there, but still doesn't fix the boredom problem.

I wished GW would implement the Battle Missions Scenario where the game structure was the same, but you swapped each players' shooting phases. It was like a simplified overwatch without any memory issues.

Player 1 move > Player 2 shoot > Player 1 assault
Player 2 move > Player 1 shoot > Player 2 assault
repeat

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/19 18:00:03


 
   
Made in gb
Monstrous Master Moulder





Essex,, England

If half this stuff is true, I will go down to GW HQ, and begin on slapping some sense into every single one of them.



 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Ottawa Ontario Canada


Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in gb
Judgemental Grey Knight Justicar






Assualt before shooting? thats a huge change. unless you declare who you wanna assualt before shooting.
   
Made in se
Annoyed Blood Angel Devastator





Sweden

Mr Mystery wrote:Starter Set thing seems particularly off. Whole idea behind the current set(s) is that not just you, but a friend can play, with just a single set.

Yup, I'm happy to write this off for sure.

Also, Alfhedil, I believe (according to Gav Thorpe) that was the intention when he did the current book.


Yeah and Now the firend nead to buy one box too

but I hope its true , but why dark angels? (hope they mean blood angels
   
Made in ca
Dour Wolf Priest with Iron Wolf Amulet






Canada

Not sure how much is true, but some aspects sound very intriguing.

   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

Claimh_Solais wrote:
Mr Mystery wrote:Starter Set thing seems particularly off. Whole idea behind the current set(s) is that not just you, but a friend can play, with just a single set.

Yup, I'm happy to write this off for sure.

Also, Alfhedil, I believe (according to Gav Thorpe) that was the intention when he did the current book.


Yeah and Now the firend nead to buy one box too

but I hope its true , but why dark angels? (hope they mean blood angels )

Why not Dark Angels?

The book is generally considered a "failure" by the design staff and I know I consider it to be one. None of the real "defining features" that you see evident in Blood Angels/Space Wolves or even Black Templars are there. It also was an aborted attempt to start something new in terms of the design.

On another note, I swear if this marks the return of Scout-Sergeant Naaman I will be a stupidly happy camper.
   
Made in si
Foxy Wildborne







I like most of it, but it sounds way out of GW's comfort zone and contrary to their current design paradigm. These changes would likely get me back into the game but I' not buying the rumours at all.

The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins. 
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran





Just like I said elsewhere, this isn't from Blood of Kittens - it's the equivalent of someone with zero post history starting a thread here and making wild claims. Saying it's from BoK is very disingenuous.

8000 points of XI Legion the Space Vagabonds, they can adapt their tactics to represent any and every Legion and Chapter as needed because they were created by the Emperor to be the ultimate tactical power. They have faked their disappearance in order to infiltrate every part of the conflicts in the galaxy.

8000 points of Tau/Craftworld Eldar/Necron because the Space Vagabonds can also emulate their wargear and tactics.

Victories: ALL
Losses: NONE (My armies have the psychic ability to conjure a cataclysmic storm whenever they are about to lose. This allows the Space Vagabonds to teleport away while releasing power waves that destroys the battlefield and so every battle is a victory)

Sabet wrote:PS: Vhalyar, that signature makes you look like a band wagoner and a very bad loser
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Marthike wrote:Assualt before shooting? thats a huge change. unless you declare who you wanna assualt before shooting.

Like 2nd edition was.

However, these rumors seem like BS.

"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


Freelance Ontologist

When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. 
   
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Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways

It's a good job I'm not a slug, or I would have exploded with all the salt being thrown around

   
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Hacking Shang Jí






I like a lot of the ideas here, but even if they are how the final product turns out, it will be impossible to tell how they work all together. It could revolutionize the game, or it could ruin it.

But the biggest reason I'm skeptical is that these rules seem to be going in a different direction from the recent Fantasy rules changes.

Unfortunately, it's all a moot point for me. As long as their prices are unreasonable, I won't be buying GW product no matter how interesting their rules become.

"White Lions: They're Better Than Cancer!" is not exactly a compelling marketing slogan. - AlexHolker 
   
Made in gb
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God






Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways

JOHIRA wrote:As long as their prices are unreasonable, I won't be buying GW product no matter how interesting their rules become.


Pretty much my feelings exactly

   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon





Amazing. I don't actually believe it because these rumors are too good to be true, but if this is the case GW have really outdone themselves. Literally every change in this list sounds great.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







It's not the first mention I've heard of the new starter set being Dark Angels / Chaos.

I think there are quite possibly some grains of truth in this, more likely it's been through a few rounds of Chinese Whispers, that's all.

I wasn't thinking it was going to be a major change though. For example, one of the most notable changes I've heard was 'units disembarking from a destroyed transport are automatically pinned.'

Which seems a bit more likely than entirely changing the turn setup entirely...
   
Made in us
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine





Puget sound region, WA

I don't believe most of this.

In any change of the rules, you will see some differences, but you're NOT going to see a massive "change it all around" in soooo many different areas. Last time that happened it was 3rd ed. and that made 40k shoot though the roof in popularity.

They're not going to radically change something that's working so well for them.

 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Coastal Bliss in the Shadow of Sizewell





Suffolk, where the Aliens roam.

Why does this pic seem oddly appropriate if true.



Also, salt needed on this one.

"That's not an Ork, its a girl.." - Last words of High General Daran Ul'tharem, battle of Ursha VII.

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