WORLD OF WARCRAFT®: MISTS OF PANDARIA™ REVEALED AT BLIZZCON® 2011
Fourth expansion to Blizzard Entertainment’s critically acclaimed massively multiplayer online role-playing game reintroduces the mysterious pandaren race to Azeroth
ANAHEIM, Calif. -- October 21, 2011 -- Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. today announced plans for the fourth expansion toWorld of Warcraft®, its award-winning massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG). Unveiled to a sold-out crowd at the company’s BlizzCon® gaming festival, World of Warcraft: Mists of Pandaria™ lifts the fog of mystery surrounding a long-lost continent that has been newly rediscovered following the events of World of Warcraft: Cataclysm™. The new expansion reintroduces the elusive pandaren, originally seen in Blizzard’s real-time strategy game Warcraft® III, as a playable race and adds a brand-new player class: the martial-arts-focused Monk. While exploring the mysteries of an exotic new land and advancing to the new level cap of 90, players will experience a range of new content and game features, including new quests and dungeons, group scenarios and “challenge” modes, pet battles, and more.
“Players have been asking to see the pandaren in World of Warcraft since the game’s launch, and we’re excited to finally be able to give them a proper re-introduction to Azeroth,” said Mike Morhaime, CEO and cofounder of Blizzard Entertainment. “In addition to the new playable race and class, Mists of Pandaria contains a huge amount of new content, and we’re looking forward to sharing more information about all of it at BlizzCon and beyond.”
In the upcoming expansion, players will be able to explore the long-lost continent of Pandaria, which has remained hidden from the world since the sundering of Azeroth over ten thousand years ago. In the aftermath of the Cataclysm played out in World of Warcraft’s third expansion, Pandaria’s heroes are emerging from their land’s lush forests and cloud-ringed mountains to choose sides in the escalating war between the Alliance and the Horde and to share the extraordinary secrets of their ancient martial arts. As tensions between the factions near a breaking point following the discovery of this new world, players will be called upon to explore Pandaria’s exotic expanses, make contact with its strange indigenous creatures, and unlock the world-changing secrets that have been hiding in the mists for millennia.
New features coming in the game’s fourth expansion include:
New Playable Race -- Pandaren: Adventure through Azeroth as World of Warcraft's first neutral race and decide whether to side with the Alliance or the Horde.
New Playable Class -- Monk: Unlock the secrets of pandaren martial arts and do battle as a damage dealer, healer, or tank.
Level Cap Increased to 90:Learn potent new spells and abilities while exploring uncharted zones and taking on challenging new content.
New Zones:Explore the lush Jade Forest, treacherous Kun-Lai Summit, and other exotic areas of Pandaria designed for high-level characters, and uncover the mystery of the Wandering Isle.
Scenarios: Join up with some friends to achieve a common goal, such as mounting a defense against invading monsters, in a flexible new type of PvE challenge.
Dungeon “Challenge” Modes: Master the ultimate five-player time trial to earn prestige rewards in a new dungeon mode that will put your resolve and coordination to the test.
Pet Battles: Challenge other players’ companion pets with your own collection in a new tactical mini-game, and find out who's king or queen of the pint-sized battlefield.
New Talent System: Customize your character to suit your play style with the newly overhauled and improved talent system.
Color me unimpressed. I don't even play anymore and I feel a bit betrayed.
Exactly. How many JackBlack name variations will spring up? The only thing that caught my attention was the Monk class. Bought damn time there, Ive said for years they should make a Monk class. Oh well, I wont be going back to find out if its a good class
Good bye World of Warcraft, your reign can finally see the end
Pandarens have been in Warcraft long before Kung Fu Panda. But Blizzard end up putting Panda's in Japanese Samurai armor and royally off the Chinese. Can't have that now. The Chinese boters and gold sellers make up a good chunk of their of their business!
So they put the panda people on the back burner for years and have finally decided to put them back into Warcraft. I suppose the Chinese have finally invaded and conquered. This could be the end of the world... of Warcraft.
Well someone doesn't appreciate references to one of the best South Park episodes of all time
I actually suspect WoW's time has come. Right now it survives because no one has anything better to play. It lost some users to Rift, but a lot of them went back in the end cause Rift isn't that different from WoW. I suspect that if any MMO can topple the Titan it'll be TOR. We shall see when it releases especially with Blizzard's continued strategy of releasing big content on the release date of new MMO's.
EDIT: I will say though that I won't be shocked if the popularity of Kung Fu Panda inspired this eventually release and the depiction of the Pandarens, but the style of Kung Fu Panda isn't exactly novel in Chinese fiction/art.
LordofHats wrote:Well someone doesn't appreciate references to one of the best South Park episodes of all time
I actually suspect WoW's time has come. Right now it survives because no one has anything better to play. It lost some users to Rift, but a lot of them went back in the end cause Rift isn't that different from WoW. I suspect that if any MMO can topple the Titan it'll be TOR. We shall see when it releases especially with Blizzard's continued strategy of releasing big content on the release date of new MMO's.
Whats TOR?
I tried Rift, didnt like it. Felt closer to Warhammer Online than WoW
The Old Republic, as in Star Wars. EA has made some stupid decisions pertaining to the release though so I'm still holding my breath. I've got the popcorn stashed away. Should be a good show either way
It carefully removed all the terrible, terrible voice acting and cliched sayings, and replaced it all with a meme, but it worked for me. I can't watch the original anymore.
LunaHound wrote:Nooo I dont want to be tempted by trailers.
Last time i did that i bought Warhammer Online.
Its a real shame the game play and PVP was awful, but the characters were REALLY WELL MADE.
I love been able to play as Goblin Squig Rider lol
Honestly, my rule is that I want 1 hour of game time for every $1. Even if a game turns out not to be as good as I wanted, if I get that time to my money, it was worth it. I payed $120 (about) on Rift including my subscription time, but I played it for around 270 hours. I didn't like it as much as I'd have liked, but it was worth it
LunaHound wrote:Nooo I dont want to be tempted by trailers.
Last time i did that i bought Warhammer Online.
Its a real shame the game play and PVP was awful, but the characters were REALLY WELL MADE.
I love been able to play as Goblin Squig Rider lol
Honestly, my rule is that I want 1 hour of game time for every $1. Even if a game turns out not to be as good as I wanted, if I get that time to my money, it was worth it. I payed $120 (about) on Rift including my subscription time, but I played it for around 270 hours. I didn't like it as much as I'd have liked, but it was worth it
LunaHound wrote:Nooo I dont want to be tempted by trailers.
Last time i did that i bought Warhammer Online.
Its a real shame the game play and PVP was awful, but the characters were REALLY WELL MADE.
I love been able to play as Goblin Squig Rider lol
The one positive I usually heard (and have said myself) about WAR was the PvP. I'm not usually that big into PvP but had a lot of fun with it in WAR. The main complaints were the PvE content (or lack there of) and bugs. Goblin Squig Herder was a lot of fun, even if you ride inside a giant squig instead of on it.
I thought the "ripping off Kung Fu Panda" was supposed to be ironic and sly commentary on all the "Warhammer ripped off Warcraft" postings.
I thought the goblins were bad enough but now this?
Pok e mon meets Kung fu Panda with a "Free" Diablo III when you buy a year's subscription. On another note, isn't Age of Reckoning going to add Nippion or Cathay?
I see your Jedi Sentinel, and raise with a Sith Juggernaut!
Yeah the picture is big, but it has to be because of the awesomeness
I see both of those and raise you orks
[img]http://images.wikia.com/war40kdarkmillenium/images/1/14/Dark_Millenium_2_BoLS.jpg[img]
and a song to go with it
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whxcq4I0kAo[youtube]
I've been playing WoW off an on since release, and Cata kind of killed it for me. This announcement has done nothing to change my opinion. Especially after spending some time in TOR.
Is there any word as to whether this is one of those "Heroic
Class" classes (and therefore, only open to high level players) or
will I get to play as a pandaren from level 1?
The whole pet battles thing has me interested. I've got like fifty on one toon... it would be bad ass to use them in a mini game of sorts. I stopped playing a month or 2 after cata but the minigame might bring me back.
The whole pay one year of WoW subs and you get D3 for free plus Pandaria beta and another loosely ressemblant winged horse (is it the 3rd now?) shows how much they're in damage control mode. What better way to camouflage lost subs than locking them up for at least a year?
N'Ferno wrote:The whole pay one year of WoW subs and you get D3 for free plus Pandaria beta and another loosely ressemblant winged horse (is it the 3rd now?) shows how much they're in damage control mode. What better way to camouflage lost subs than locking them up for at least a year?
There is a promotion every year ( in every new expansion )
This is to promote / encourage new players to join without feeling intimidated of repurchasing ALL the expansions.
Since the battle chest only covered to Burning Crusade, there is still Litch King, Cataclysm, and now this.
Discount is very much needed to be up to date , without conspiracy theory of "damage control"
malfred wrote:Is there any word as to whether this is one of those "Heroic
Class" classes (and therefore, only open to high level players) or
will I get to play as a pandaren from level 1?
It is damage control in the sense that they have two major rivals (ToR and GW2) being released soon and want to try and retain as many players as possible, or lure back older players. It is neither a conspiracy theory nor is it unreasonable to be proactive when dealing with competition; it is marketing.
Ahtman wrote:It is damage control in the sense that they have two major rivals (ToR and GW2) being released soon and want to try and retain as many players as possible, or lure back older players. It is neither a conspiracy theory nor is it unreasonable to be proactive when dealing with competition; it is marketing.
Anything can be possible.
However, the fact that there has been a discount every year for every expansion since even all the way back to first expansion Burning Crusade
( despite WoW sales going strong ) speaks other wise.
Either way Blizzard has been smart and treating their customers right since the very beginning.
These promotions are not sudden turn of events.
corpsesarefun wrote:The pinky pie sig isn't as good as the rainbowdash matrix sig btw luna.
Hehe thanks, this one i didn't make, but just seeing how transparency work on different Dakka Theme layouts.
Ahtman wrote:It is damage control in the sense that they have two major rivals (ToR and GW2) being released soon and want to try and retain as many players as possible, or lure back older players. It is neither a conspiracy theory nor is it unreasonable to be proactive when dealing with competition; it is marketing.
Anything can be possible.
However, the fact that there has been a discount every year for every expansion since even all the way back to first expansion Burning Crusade
( despite WoW sales going strong ) speaks other wise.
Either way Blizzard has been smart and treating their customers right since the very beginning.
These promotions are not sudden turn of events.
We aren't talking about a discount on the games , but the free Diablo III as well as a winged mount. It was also not said that gamers were being abused or that Blizzard is being horrible.
corpsesarefun wrote:The promotions are larger than in previous years though, that is the point most people are trying to get at.
This is a perfectly logical choice by blizzard when serious competition is released.
Exactly. It isn't a conspiracy and it isn't Blizzard being accused of anything untoward. Understanding why they are doing doesn't mean it is somehow disingenuous. They do have legitimate reasons to worry about GW2 and ToR siphoning off players. Even if they only get 100k people to switch that is a pretty good chunk of change gone. Instead of acting like nothing is happening they are catering to the fan base and trying to lure customers back. Seems like a good idea and something I would do if I were a company.
corpsesarefun wrote:It is a very good deal, that is exactly what we are saying.
Ok Im done laundry, so allow me to elaborate.
Its a good deal to encourage sales for people that are curious or interested in D3.
It is however, a really bad deal for people that stuck around for WoW itself.
Or for people that are planning to get into WoW, without the interest of D3.
Which if this promotion is aimed towards establishing MMO customers away from TOR or other MMORPG
There is no actual discount, because there is more than 1 type of customer.
LunaHound wrote:
Is Blizzard trying to get people interested in D3? yes.
But does that mean its because WoW is losing subscribers? and Need the promotion? No.
Blizz sees a potential loss of WoW subscriptions ergo needs to promote either WoW or another source of income such as diablo three.
The promotion does both.
Like i said, i agree with you the promotion will grab one type of customer, which is the ones that has interest in D3.
But its not going to grab the WoW players that wants to play WoW. Because a free game that customer B doesn't play isn't worth anything.
And ultimately D3 isnt WoW , and neither will WoW be replaced by D3
As boring as WoW might sound, i still prefer boring over dead.
If you're trying to claim every non-WoW game is "dead", then i'm going to ignore you because I can't respond to that without breaking rule number one.
I can care less which company makes what game. As long as a company makes a good game, i'll gladly play it.
I wouldn't dare to claim every non-WoW game is dead, as i havn't played that many ( well compared to how many there are out there )
I was referring to Warhammer Online. If the management wasn't so awkward im sure they would have gone f2p long ago.
And you know, when i was ambiguous with the name, it wasnt for the purpose of insulting every other MMORPG out there.
I was ambiguous because i didn't want a WoW vs Warhammer Online argument.
Already signed up to the annual pass. Absolute no brainer for me, China is my fave historical period, to see Blizzards take on it is a big draw.
To get a free mount, automatic Beta access to Mists of Pandaria, Diablo 3 and another 4months of WoW time free because I'll be getting Diablo 3 CE for the WoW pet, yep they thought of that too, and all I need to do is confirm I'll stay subbed for twelve months.
Seriously, didn't even need to consider it.
As to news, sounds like they are really going to try and fill up on stuff for the top end alts to do with this expansion.
As a casual player, things like Dailies for valor points, the new vanity pet battle system (ie Pokemon rip off) and new PvE styled battlegrounds are going to be lots of fun for me.
Plus the fact I get to wear chinese/WoW themed armours for my characters, yeah I'm sold.
It seems to be common forum practice to go off topic to attempt to derail something certain individual don't like.
In this case because its a thread related to Blizzard, something GW fans despise.
Im interested to see how they create the Chinese armor, Blizzard seems to have some rather talented artists.
They got the dungeon and buildings spot on, im impressed.
Also they said they improved the talent trees.... I wonder if that means they can be swapped on the spot without paying.
To return to WoW or not.... i already gave everything away since i was so determined to not play again :'/
While free D3 is nice, i wouldn't mind getting the Limited Edition.
I think it's a bit early for me to judge on how I'd feel about the expansion as a whole but I don't like the Pandarens as a playable race. I could have sworn I remembered Blizzard saying a while back that it'd never come to that - guess things change :/
Apart from that though, I also think that I don't like the setting, and would have preferred something along the lines of, oh I don't know... Argus maybe? Forget making a new race and put in a Demon Hunter hero class. However, the flaw I can already see with that is I'm sure that Blizzard wants to implement something with healing capabilities...
Eh, I don't know... I'd just really like to see Argus I suppose.
LunaHound wrote:It seems to be common forum practice to go off topic to attempt to derail something certain individual don't like.
Or it is just the natural flow of conversation.
LunaHound wrote:In this case because its a thread related to Blizzard, something GW fans despise.
You know what else is common? People who like something projecting their own failings on to others, especially when it comes to creating weird false choice dichotomies. The only people 'hating' on Blizzard are the ones in your head. I like Blizzard, I just don't play WoW. Not only that but several other people that seem to like Warhammer/Warhammer 40k and also are showing interest in this so the idea that people who like GW must hate Blizzard is self evidently wrong. You have a strange way of looking at things. It can't just people having a fun conversation on a message board. No. It must be people hating, even though no one has been all that mean toward the product, so you have to imagine they are hating. If assuming people hate something you like just becuase they don't like it as much as you is what you need to do to sleep at night more power to you, but that doesn't make it true.
Ahx wrote:Eh, I don't know... I'd just really like to see Argus I suppose.
What are Argus?
I was thinking Blizzard could have implemented Ethereals as a playable race that would be fun too.
Pandaren, maybe they felt the world was ready to accept china. That and Chinese government implemented limited game time.
Ahtman wrote:You know what else is common? People who like something projecting their own failings on to others, especially when it comes to creating weird false choice dichotomies. The only people 'hating' on Blizzard are the ones in your head. I like Blizzard, I just don't play WoW. Not only that but several other people that seem to like Warhammer/Warhammer 40k and also are showing interest in this so the idea that people who like GW must hate Blizzard is self evidently wrong. You have a strange way of looking at things. It can't just people having a fun conversation on a message board. No. It must be people hating, even though no one has been all that mean toward the product, so you have to imagine they are hating. If assuming people hate something you like just becuase they don't like it as much as you is what you need to do to sleep at night more power to you, but that doesn't make it true.
Yet we all know why its polite to be on topic, and why its not nice to be off topic right?
LunaHound wrote:It seems to be common forum practice to go off topic to attempt to derail something certain individual don't like.
Please. Derailing things takes something like dynamite, or C4. Oooo or a whole lot of fire works!
In this case because its a thread related to Blizzard, something GW fans despise.
I hate Blizzard for completely different reasons personally. They're a publisher and attached to Activision. I have to hate them
Im interested to see how they create the Chinese armor, Blizzard seems to have some rather talented artists.
They got the dungeon and buildings spot on, im impressed.
The scenery was certainly nice, but the Night Elves have always hard a sort of Asian look to some of their buildings and Blood Elves have a slight Chinese looking influence on their armor.
They should make a monkey king set though! Everyone loves monkey king! Add a tail and a smiling monkey mask and monkey gloves.
Also they said they improved the talent trees.... I wonder if that means they can be swapped on the spot without paying.
Honestly my biggest complaint about the Talent trees is after lvl 10 (?) I only get 1 point per level up. It makes it seem kind of like a trial to increase your skills sometimes for me. I actually really really love Star Trek Online's system, where you're experience is your skill points and you can spend them as you get them. Now if only STO could get some better skill trees
LunaHound wrote:@ahtman, not convinced, when the convos had nothing to do with WoW.
Marvel at my surprise that you don't understand and don't care that you don't. Going on a tangent doesn't equal hatred. Again, you are being overly sensitive and just making things up, which again, is not really a surprise. Now don't confuse my frustration with you being so obtuse with me having a grudge with Blizzard. I know you want to, but try to realize I'm frustrated by your myopic thinking and not the company, of which I really have nothing against.
LordofHats wrote:Honestly my biggest complaint about the Talent trees is after lvl 10 (?) I only get 1 point per level up. It makes it seem kind of like a trial to increase your skills sometimes for me. I actually really really love Star Trek Online's system, where you're experience is your skill points and you can spend them as you get them. Now if only STO could get some better skill trees
I think i know what you mean... A while back, every level meant something. we get talent points.
But now, its every other level or something, its as if Blizzard don't care about the leveling process, they just want you to reach the increment of 10 levels.
While i can see the logic in that, it just makes casual leveling feels less rewarding.
I have a feeling it'll get worse, because the increment DOES get worse every time there is a level cap increase.
Especially when it gets to the point that leveling can take days of casual play. It can just make it suddenly feel like leveling isn't worth it, which in an RPG it really really should. I'm not really sure why the Blizz devs won't increase the available max skill point pool. Balance I'm sure but they can be rebalanced and expanded to make it feel more worthwhile. Add some random stat increasing skills to the trees. That's pretty easy to balance around and there's room for it.
LunaHound wrote:@ahtman, not convinced, when the convos had nothing to do with WoW.
Marvel at my surprise that you don't understand and don't care that you don't. Going on a tangent doesn't equal hatred. Again, you are being overly sensitive and just making things up, which again, is not really a surprise. Now don't confuse my frustration with you being so obtuse with me having a grudge with Blizzard. I know you want to, but try to realize I'm frustrated by your myopic thinking and not the company, of which I really have nothing against.
No, i marvel at the surprise that in a Warcraft thread the off topic talk about every else besides warcraft,
then i get called paranoid for that Or, call me crazy, but we CAN just stay on topic like the nice thing to do yes?
Also, while i have no issue with the word "obtuse", I got banned for using that same word. So please fix that.
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LordofHats wrote:Especially when it gets to the point that leveling can take days of casual play. It can just make it suddenly feel like leveling isn't worth it, which in an RPG it really really should. I'm not really sure why the Blizz devs won't increase the available max skill point pool. Balance I'm sure but they can be rebalanced and expanded to make it feel more worthwhile. Add some random stat increasing skills to the trees. That's pretty easy to balance around and there's room for it.
I think the following reasons contribute to why Blizzard do such annoying things
1) As time progresses, they make the money off the latest " end content " Its what draws people in, so they spent the most effort on it.
So the sooner we reach that content, thats essentially what they think we are paying for. This coincides with Blizzard implementing f2p for lower lvls and free Burning Crusade upgrade.
2) Increased talent points makes it really hard to balance things. Its why they condensed it to make hybrids builds extinct. They pretty much dumbed down Warcraft.
This is just like Warhammer Fantasy's magic item -_- i think to make it easier for younger players.
3) I mentioned earlier in the thread, there are people that doesnt play with expansion. They sort of "twink" at lvl 50 and 60.
If the talents arnt carefully considered which comes first or later, it can be easily abused at low levels.
Last thing Blizzard want is, everyone playing with over powered talent tree at lvl 60 and not buy expansion xD
LunaHound wrote:No, i marvel at the surprise that in a Warcraft thread the off topic talk about every else besides warcraft,
Except people are talking about Warcraft, they just aren't solely talking about Warcraft, I really don't see why you think no one is talking about it when most people are in one way or the other.
LunaHound wrote:No, i marvel at the surprise that in a Warcraft thread the off topic talk about every else besides warcraft,
Except people are talking about Warcraft, they just aren't solely talking about Warcraft, I really don't see why you think no one is talking about it when most people are in one way or the other.
Can you stop complaining since I don't think i actually pointed a finger at anyone specific.
Your reaction is almost like you are worried what i posted was meant for you....
LunaHound wrote:1) As time progresses, they make the money off the latest " end content " Its what draws people in, so they spent the most effort on it.
So the sooner we reach that content, thats essentially what they think we are paying for. This coincides with Blizzard implementing f2p for lower lvls and free Burning Crusade upgrade.
I think that works for people who got in years ago. I tried to get in with the Wrath Lunch, and everyone kept saying get to end game that's where the fun is, but to be honest, leveling in WoW is boring. For numerous reasons, not just the skill trees. If you were horde, you were in The Barrens for forever! If you played Alliance it could just get tiresome cause the structure of the zones back then was senseless after a certain point.
I ultimately quite when I hit fifty five, and just couldn't find enough quests. I resorted to dungeon crawling, but by the time I hit sixty and could move on to Burning Crusades content, I just felt tired. WoW doesn't seem new user friendly to me. Maybe you know more than me, but is WoW really pulling in new players or is it just recycling the same ones?
Increased talent points makes it really hard to balance things. Its why they condensed it to make hybrids builds extinct. They pretty much dumbed down Warcraft.
Hybrids. My other complaint grr. I get it. You don't want someone to be able to do everything, but come on. Give me some points and something to spend them on bro. Throw in a bunch of "increase <stat> by # * lvl" skills. Those are easy to balance and let me feel like I'm achieving something as I grind through the game. Fixing their auction house and the gold inflation (which must be completely absurd by now) would be nice too, but I doubt a realistic solution exists for that.
I think that works for people who got in years ago. I tried to get in with the Wrath Lunch, and everyone kept saying get to end game that's where the fun is, but to be honest, leveling in WoW is boring. For numerous reasons, not just the skill trees. If you were horde, you were in The Barrens for forever! If you played Alliance it could just get tiresome cause the structure of the zones back then was senseless after a certain point.
You are correct, and Blizzard agrees with you. Thats one reason why they implemented friend referral program.
Basically if your friend gains a level, you gain one too, and vice versa, and you gain tons of extra exp if you play together.
They also implemented exp boosting items to be purchased by your high level characters ( if you have )
I think it adds to 40% exp gained from quest and dungeon runs.
I ultimately quite when I hit fifty five, and just couldn't find enough quests. I resorted to dungeon crawling, but by the time I hit sixty and could move on to Burning Crusades content, I just felt tired. WoW doesn't seem new user friendly to me. Maybe you know more than me, but is WoW really pulling in new players or is it just recycling the same ones?
Hmm... to be honest i don't like questing either, i jumped right into dungeon asap. Its not possible to not have enough quest. Each continent have their own quests
which means you should have atleast double the quest you need to level with.
Recycling content.... I do think so, more or less. Quests and dungeons becomes more elaborate yes, so does mass pvp ( 40 alliance vs 40 hordes )
And 25men raids are all available from lvl 55 and on. This is why many people are ok with playing old contents, the fun stuff are all still there.
Hybrids. My other complaint grr. I get it. You don't want someone to be able to do everything, but come on. Give me some points and something to spend them on bro. Throw in a bunch of "increase <stat> by # * lvl" skills. Those are easy to balance and let me feel like I'm achieving something as I grind through the game. Fixing their auction house and the gold inflation (which must be completely absurd by now) would be nice too, but I doubt a realistic solution exists for that.
This is the ultimate dilemma Blizzard has, and will continue to have, and im sure other games all have the same headache.
How do they balance? who they use to gauge to create a balance?
For example, normal people used to complain about Druids and Shaman, they are good at hybridizing. But normal people don't know how to play them properly, and ask for boosts.
Then, 5% players like me that gets to Gladiator knows how to use ( or abuse ) the class, certainly took advantage of the class strength.
How will Blizzard deal with that? make the 95% of players happy? by making it easier for people that knows how to use / abuse the class?
Thats a hard decision too that have no answer...
Well they did come up with answer, they killed the talent tree xD
That DLC seems horrible....I mean...pandas....really?
I could respect the china thing put Pandas called Pandarans?
I prefer Murlocs over pandas, I wouldnt be playing Pandaren but people seems to like it... oh well.
Pandaren was a joke to start with that gained much popularity. It literally means Panda-Man
It's almost like a bunch of blizzard employes were sitting around half baked thinking of a new race to add...
Perhaps, but its hard to argue if the fans loved it that much. Which ever brings in the $$$
I used to really like WoW, but Cataclysm and this...thing....are just bad...IMO anyway...I'll be saving up my money waiting for Dark millennium online
I will also give Dark Millennium Online a try.
I just really hope they fix what they did wrong with Warhammer Online ( or is able to see why it wasnt successful )
That DLC seems horrible....I mean...pandas....really?
I could respect the china thing put Pandas called Pandarans?
I prefer Murlocs over pandas, I wouldnt be playing Pandaren but people seems to like it... oh well.
Pandaren was a joke to start with that gained much popularity. It literally means Panda-Man
It would not suprise me that Horde would get a Murloc as race now that Alliance get these panda's, but sadly i heard a rumor that it's gonna be the Orgres race who is joining Horde. That is still pretty sweet.
Played D3 for the past week and a half. Some neat additions should be a good all around game for the fans. And getting as part of a WoW sub with more collectables is likely to grab a lot of the WoW players, who feel the need to collect everything to buy in and then experience Diablo for perhaps the first time. Its a good way for Bliz to grow that franchise's player base as well.
However, I am going to have to go with SW:TOR over this. It was just so much more interesting from what I have played. Companions that are useful to your character, crafting that is useful, a ship that is useful to use as a abse of operations and fight in, quests that are interesting and voiced so you don't feel a grind, PVP game modes that are interesting and can start early in your carrer and use to level with if you choose, exploration that actually rewards players with PERMENANT STAT BUMPS and info/trinkets, the list just goes on and on. I highly recommend WoW fans, Sci-fi fans, MMO fans, and star wars fans, to seriously check it out.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:sorry I needed to clarify for you fellas.
You actually didn't need to; just having some friendly banter.
Aye, mine was the same... we really need a tongue in cheek emote.
@Lunahound
The new Talent system sounds a big change, and it is, and I'm all for it because I agree with a large portion of WoW players and despise cookie cutter talent specs. That is If you a Holy Priest and you don't have x, y and z talents, you are some kind of moron and not worth taking on a raid.
The new system is going to give us control again, and even though with the new system I spotted a couple I thought, damn how could you not take that talent, the system looks a lot more interesting and fun overall. After watching the preview and talent panels at Blizzcon yesterday, hence why as a Brit I was posting at stupid O'clock last night, I have a 'gist' of where it is going.
Basically we are getting to pick a talent point every 15 levels, talent trees are gone, you just get a choice from three abilities, and you can't go back, so after picking your first talent point at level 15, at level 30, you have to pick one from the three level 30 ones, and so on. Each level is themed depending on class, for example for a few of the classes it seemed level sixty was a choice of three 'crowd control' abilities.
They actually flicked through all of the talents on the talent panel, although they are obviously subject to change. For example here is Hunter as it stands of right now.
I really think this is going to make things interesting, and as they hope, personal playstyle will trump any 'cookie cutter'list on the net. I am sure some folks will still insist which are the best overall, but they have made sure each talent has its own advantages, so how you play will mean more than what it actually does.
To expand a bit on my previous post in here :
I find it a bit odd that people would consider this 12 months subs a "great deal" considering by Blizzard's own admission the next patch is the only content still coming before the expansion announcing events (roughly at least 9 months away if all goes well, expansion releasing next november).
4.3 will offer enough content to hold an average gamer a month or two at best bar gated progressions (daily quest tied reputations, the new best innovative feature Blizzard ran with lately) and assuming said gamer hasn't finished the current Cataclysm content (but really, who hasn't at this point?). Even with Diablo 3 thrown in that deal (which is what, 6 months away?) and Tyrael's mount that's still an awful lot of months subbed for...Pandaria beta? So basically pay Blizzard a sub until the expansion hits. Which you'll already have played the hell out of since the lack of content made you play the beta instead of the live game. Or pay Blizzard subs while you play Diablo 3.
For the record, I'll probably get the Pandaria CE if only because I own all the previous CEs and I don't like to break up a collection. I will also get the Diablo 3 CE. There will be the new Starcraft 2 expansion as well. I'm a great fan of Blizzard's games, but there's a limit
Thing is, if you where planning on subbing those twelve months anyway. Well alot in my guild have been finding it a excellent as I said above 'no brainer' offer.
Its feels like more of a reward to us, regardless of the actual motorvation behind it by Blizz.
If you were going to sub those twelve months anyway without question then business wise the promotion is probably not meant for you, however it does give you the sense of reward for being dedicated that no doubt will make you buy again in the future.
The way I see it the promotion is to catch those on the fence, those that either aren't sure about the new expac or aren't sure about buying a years sub.
Ahtman wrote:The only people 'hating' on Blizzard are the ones in your head.
Pretty much this, I don't dislike Blizzard... mostly just their fanboys-- their games themselves are with a few exceptions merely boringly mediocre rather than overtly bad.
I'll probably stick with F2P games, if any at all, until DMO and GW2 come out.
corpsesarefun wrote:If you were going to sub those twelve months anyway without question then business wise the promotion is probably not meant for you, however it does give you the sense of reward for being dedicated that no doubt will make you buy again in the future.
The way I see it the promotion is to catch those on the fence, those that either aren't sure about the new expac or aren't sure about buying a years sub.
True, but I wouldn't say they 100% had my sub, I would most likely have been subbing, but this has giving me no bad points in my mind against the idea of saying 'yes I'll agree to sub for 12months.' I don't need to pay for those 12 months now, my 6month reoccuring sub just has to go on for another 12 months. The fact I have 5months paid for isn't ignored, (got my 6th month sub at start of October) it means all I have agreeed to sub again for, is another seven months if I wanted to stop. Of course with Mists probably incoming by that point the odds are I'll be bouncing around like bunny ready for its release by then.
Oh and they have even considered something I would normally expect a company to ignore, or convientely forget. As someone who is going to be getting a Diablo 3 Collectors edition, for the game, bits and the WoW pet, I will be given 4months free WoW time as I have effectively nullified the 'free' Diablo 3 offer. When I saw they had done that, I was signed up within moments.
I stopped playing before they released the Cataclysm expansion and came back on a 10-day free trial to see what was new and was shocked to find out how much the game had further devolved. There are a lot of things that I could tell you at this point but suffice it to say that with every new and positive thing that they advertise updating, they silently remove something small that I enjoyed and feel made the game worth playing. A lot of people say that the game was best before the expansions, and I'd have to agree.
But concerning THIS. I'm... not sure what to say about it, really. I mean I thought it was a joke the first time that I watched it. Unlike a lot of the 15-year-olds playing the game today, I'm moderately educated on the franchise to know that they had come up with this panda race sometime after Warcraft III, well before Kung-fu Panda, but even if they were ripping off other material, it doesn't really matter.
What matters is if this is a good thing or not. Well... no. I don't think so. Though to be fair, I think that the game itself has been flattened into this banal carrot-on-a-stick money machine, and it would take a massive overhaul to make this game at all favorable to me again, but I know that I'm not the only one who thinks that this has been a major mistake. I know WoW's constituency well, and I believe that though they will begrudgingly accept the expansion at first, this expansion will be a major step in weaning the hooked players off of their fix.
Until then, the only thing that will be convincing the diehards will be the game itself. When I was on that 10-day trial I tried asking some people why they liked this game and the answer really was that they enjoyed grinding in one way or another, which anyone can tell you is all this game really is anymore. It's all that Blizzard really knows how to do, is further homogenize the game. I would say that they are lacking in the ideas department, but you know, when money talks, people walk, and when you have all these millions of people continuously paying their money to play, the guy that says "This game needs to be changed" probably isn't going to be very well received.
So now we are seeing what is officially the first filler expansion, and anyone that still both has standards AND an active subscription to the game are getting all up in arms about this new development.
Zefig wrote: Pet Battles: Challenge other players’ companion pets with your own collection in a new tactical mini-game, and find out who's king or queen of the pint-sized battlefield.
Not at all, you go out and can find and fight them in the wild to weaken them before capturing them and using as your own. You also train them and level them up to make them learn new abilities and battle them one on one.
LunaHound wrote:I just really hope they fix what they did wrong with Warhammer Online ( or is able to see why it wasnt successful )
Personally, the reasons I didn't like it was:
It wasn't set in the Warhammer World, more like a Warhammer Esque world (Constant fluff breaks/overlooks didn't make it feel like Warhammer)
Classes that never existed (Zealots, Disciples and Male Sorcerers [let's face it, that should NEVER have happened])
Balance issues (No point in playing anything other than Bright Wizards/SLayers/Warrior Priests for Order, or Chosen/Choppa's/Insert Healer)
I would be able to look past all of those, however, if it wasn't for these last two:
NO End Game content; you couldn't even que up for PVP anymore....
And the fact that if you stopped playing for 3 months by deactivating your account, when you activated it again it charged you for those three months you didn't play....
Meh...I hoped Cataclysm would be the last expansion so I would not miss out on much for quitting during Wotlk. Looks like I'm gonna stay sad for not playing for atleast one more expansion. Hopefully Guild Wars II will help ease that pain.
Slarg232 wrote:Balance issues (No point in playing anything other than Bright Wizards/SLayers/Warrior Priests for Order, or Chosen/Choppa's/Insert Healer)
lol, funny that, I ate brightwizards for breakfast as a black orc or that dark elf assassin class...
Slarg232 wrote:Balance issues (No point in playing anything other than Bright Wizards/SLayers/Warrior Priests for Order, or Chosen/Choppa's/Insert Healer)
lol, funny that, I ate brightwizards for breakfast as a black orc or that dark elf assassin class...
Then you are a far, far greater player than I was.
I actually think some of the stuff they are adding looks promising. That being said I will never play WoW again, its lost a step since Cataclysm, and besides the revamp to Azeroth cataclysm was really disappointing to me.
corpsesarefun wrote:Not at all, you go out and can find and fight them in the wild to weaken them before capturing them and using as your own. You also train them and level them up to make them learn new abilities and battle them one on one.
KingCracker wrote:Exactly. How many JackBlack name variations will spring up? The only thing that caught my attention was the Monk class. Bought damn time there, Ive said for years they should make a Monk class. Oh well, I wont be going back to find out if its a good class
Good bye World of Warcraft, your reign can finally see the end
They're still missing one more fantasy archetype though, the Barbarian.
Hmm, not sure how the company who own the story, and are pushing it forward with each expansion can really be destroying whats theirs.
Also tbh, reading novels, and playing through various stories over the years, I'd say they are still developing the story quite nicely. If you love Warcraft 3, cool, it had a good story but it really hasn't stopped evolving after WoW launched.
I actually like where the story has gone, and look forward to more as each expansion and patch rolls out. Thankfully I'm not alone, and Blizz knows it is catering for the larger portion of its fanbase with the continuing story.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Hmm, not sure how the company who own the story, and are pushing it forward with each expansion can really be destroying whats theirs.
Also tbh, reading novels, and playing through various stories over the years, I'd say they are still developing the story quite nicely. If you love Warcraft 3, cool, it had a good story but it really hasn't stopped evolving after WoW launched.
I actually like where the story has gone, and look forward to more as each expansion and patch rolls out. Thankfully I'm not alone, and Blizz knows it is catering for the larger portion of its fanbase with the continuing story.
I really really love how they made the quests and dungeons part of the story.
I never played mmorpg for the story till Wrath of the Litch King. more specifically Wrath Gate ( fell in love with the red dragon flight )
chromie and alexstraza are so cool!!!
Doctadeth wrote:Sorry blizzard, but after 5 years of these banal updates to WOW....I still don't give a rats ass. WOW was touted as the first ever good MMORPG.
Nope, thats still Richard Garret's Ultima Online, and Everquest to me.
Hehe, aye thats pretty cool, what worries me is I can almost see the 'I don't know, I'm seeing it pretty well' type posts not far below it.
Watching the announcement a couple more times at Blizzcon last night, it does accur to me that ontop of the ancient chinese themed vistas and sights, the music is going to blow me away.
During Wrath I'd often go to Grizzly Hills to hang out just because I loved the backing track, this Blizzard take on Chinese music is sounding pretty awesoome already. I'm really going to enjoy hearing Xiao, Huqin, guqin and the like being played as I'm walking around. This expansion is really going to lock me in, regardless of whether I play a Pandaran or not.
Doctadeth wrote:Sorry blizzard, but after 5 years of these banal updates to WOW....I still don't give a rats ass. WOW was touted as the first ever good MMORPG.
Nope, thats still Richard Garret's Ultima Online, and Everquest to me.
corpsesarefun wrote:Not at all, you go out and can find and fight them in the wild to weaken them before capturing them and using as your own. You also train them and level them up to make them learn new abilities and battle them one on one.
In more interesting news, did anyone catch that Blizzard have made a deal with Megablocks to make Warcraft and Starcraft themed Mega Block stuff in 2012, I assume in a similar vein to their Dragons and Halo series.
Doctadeth wrote:WOW was touted as the first ever good MMORPG.
I don't think I've ever heard that from a reputable source. EQ, Asheron's Call, Ultima Online, and Dark Age of Camelot (and possibly Meridian 59) were all well received and good MMO's. WoW was the first to break into the mainstream, but it certainly wasn't the first good MMO by a stretch.
I think it was just the first to break a certain number of Subs, Million? Not sure, thats whats its really know for now, that and killing every MMO that comes along saying things like 'we'll be a WoW beater.' But I'd agree there where solid MMO's before WoW, WoW just seemed to strike a cord with people, the fact it had a captive auidience in Blizzard Warcraft fans made a big difference as well.
In fact I seriously feel GW doesn't know what it missed out on with the original Warhammer MMO. It was due out around the same time back in 2004, would have also had a captive auidience, hell GW could laughing all the way to the bank right now, had they not canned it.
Of course the problem for MMO's now is, WoW has got nearly six years of polish in it. I'm pretty sure releasing a Fantasy themed MMO to a western auidience is a waste of time, if your main and only reason is to get over a million subs.
Sci-fi is the way to go to challenge for serious numbers, and its seems that ToR will be wrapping those up if it plays as well as I've heard.
The number of free to play models is an indicator of that, and I do think the guy at EA a little while back is probably correct in saying ToR will be the last successful paid subscription model MMO. Unless 'Titan' turns out to be something unbelievable of course.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:
In fact I seriously feel GW doesn't know what it missed out on with the original Warhammer MMO. It was due out around the same time back in 2004, would have also had a captive audience, hell GW could laughing all the way to the bank right now, had they not canned it.
I don't know where you get the idea that GW "canned" it.
They fired the company which was making it. Because the company was not actually working on it, just pocketing most of the cash and showing off the same renders for years.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:interesting, I've never heard that, the only thing I heard is Climax pointed out to GW how much it was going to cost to run, and GW dropped it.
Although that was from someone at Climax, so who knows.
Heh. So they dropped it...and then almost immediately gave the license to EA/Mythic?
Doctadeth wrote:Sorry blizzard, but after 5 years of these banal updates to WOW....I still don't give a rats ass. WOW was touted as the first ever good MMORPG.
Nope, thats still Richard Garret's Ultima Online, and Everquest to me.
Naaaaaaah, that goes to RuneScape.... /sarcasm
Ragnarok Online..
"run's for the hills"
You guys have TERRIBLE ways of spelling Shadowbane.....
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Hmm, not sure how the company who own the story, and are pushing it forward with each expansion can really be destroying whats theirs.
Also tbh, reading novels, and playing through various stories over the years, I'd say they are still developing the story quite nicely. If you love Warcraft 3, cool, it had a good story but it really hasn't stopped evolving after WoW launched.
I actually like where the story has gone, and look forward to more as each expansion and patch rolls out. Thankfully I'm not alone, and Blizz knows it is catering for the larger portion of its fanbase with the continuing story.
Easy, see Star Wars and George Lucas for previous examples on how to own something but then go back and ret-con/destroy it. Greebo shot first? The new star wars movies. Etc...
Many comic book companies do the same thing just to cashin, but at the same time drive their IP into the ground until you can't make sense of what is correct.
It looks like the announcement of this expansion to me is more of a business decision. Blizzard seem to release expansions pretty frequently nowadays and given that a new expansion is pretty much guaranteed short revenue, I don’t blame them. The thematics of this expansion seems very odd and I reckon they’re starting to run out of ideas.
Also +1 to the posts that debunk the “WoW was the first good MMO” myth. It’s disturbing how common this myth gets posted on the internet.
Kanluwen wrote: Heh. So they dropped it...and then almost immediately gave the license to EA/Mythic?
As I said its only what I heard. If it was Climax, more fool them, as they'd have had a lions share of money if that Warhammer MMO had taken WoW's slot in the long run, especially considering the first year WoW had.
Kanluwen wrote:I think he was meaning it more in the vein that Blizzard almost always announces expansions when a new MMO is launching or preparing to launch.
There is definately some truth in that, they have made moves to get expansions up against rival games for sure, of course that is probably, hate it or not, good business sense. However I should stress with Mists, they where hardly just shoutng 'new expansion' to steal ToR's thunder. Did you see how much work they've done. Already having zone fly throughs, the Pandaran starting area was playable, playable at the first Blizzcon it got announced at. So this is a expansion they have been working on for a while.
Also I should just pont out I'm not a raving Blizzard fan boy, never got into Warcraft 3, don't like Starcraft, and quick to point out the companies flaws when justified. I just sit here finding it ammusing the ammount of venom folks have towards the company for moving along a story that is theirs to move. Warcraft 3 was a chapter of the story, there was obviously more to come.. all this 'I don't take anything that happens in WoW as canon' rubbish I see around just makes me chuckle. I'm sitting there thinking, sorry dude, ask Chris Metzen, this is as Canon as it gets, WoW is the follow on to Warcraft 3.
I fnd it especially ironic on a forum where, we often berate GW for not moving on theirs.
Kanluwen has hit the nail on the head. Blizzard’s expansions are fairly tactical business decisions IMO in terms of when and where they are released.
Given that there are a lot of high quality MMOs released nowadays (as well as WoW no longer being "the one MMO to rule them all" when it was back in 2005), I think this is one of the reasons why the frequency of WoW expansion releases has seemingly increased.
Yeah they pretty much said this earlier in the year, due to the number of other games, and expectations of the customer base, they plan on releasing the expansions more frequently.
This is why during Metzen's speech to announce Mists, he was eluding about the next expasnion after. He didn't say much, but was going on how a Storm was coming, the Alliance and Horde are building towards something awful, and this expansion, Mists is a calm before that Storm, and will introduce the race the ultimately has the power to help resolve the chaos to come.
It also leads on to something Ghostcrawler said, which is they plan on having a lot more to do at launch for Mists for Lvl 90's, they've realised this waiting period from when you get to 90, before the first content patch is a bit of a downer. So they are playing on having at least two areas on a similar vein to the Firelands content patch that introduced dailies and epics etc, to be there right from the get go in Mists.
EQ2 was, and still is, an excellent MMO. I just think it has so little marketing, nobody even knows its there.
Far superior to WoW in terms of depth, crafting, and a different style of graphics that I think are superior as well (less cartoony, if I can put it that way).
They also have like 24-25 classes IIRC too, all of which are used in up to 80 man raids I think it is.
I had a go on EQ2, seemed a solid game, played an Inquisitor for about two weeks while taking a break with WoW.
I think I could have played it for longer, but my time investment with WoW was pretty high at the time, also it was just before WaR released. So went and tried that for 5weeks, and when I realised it wasn't for me, went back to WoW for the launch of WotLK.
I've got my account details kicking around somewhere, might have a another go one day.
I have always had at least a decent amount of respect for WoW (except for the fact that it has caused the genre to absolutely stagnate, but that's not really the fault of WoW itself, it's the fault of idiot devs and publishers who think that plagiarism tops innovation). I enjoyed it quite a bit when it first released. I never had the attention span or dedication to make it to max level, but I generally look back on it fondly. The expansions gradually threw me off, because they seemed to cater to only high-level players, and they put a larger barrier between my progress and the endgame. I stopped playing around the release of WotLK, because I didn't feel like paying for content I couldn't access yet.
While I didn't hate the previous expansions, they definitely left a bad taste in my mouth. However, Mists of Pandaria looks like an absolute travesty. It's such a stupid premise that it actually manages to make me angry, despite the fact that I haven't played the game in years.
For me, this is the final coffin nail. At least I can avoid it easily.
Out of intrest Mel as I've seen you note a few times you play other MMO's, what are you actual issues with it?
I'm just wondering, as I've played/tried WoW, WaR, EQ2, CoH/V, Champions Online, Guild Wars and Lineage 2.
As a MMO player I don't see a whole huge difference between any of them, (In the same way as a fps fan I don't see a whole lot of difference between Halo and other shooters when you look at the basics) subject matter maybe in the extremes of Superhero v's fantasy, as your powers feel slightly different. However at their heart they all play in a similar fashion and WoW seems to me to play the best. This is mainly due to six years of polish, regardless of other factors, quite a few of the MMO's above I noted are fun to play, but are sluggish and not as responsive as WoW when playing.
I can get disliking WoW for story changes, its look and a various number of cosmetic reasons, but for the fundemental gameplay of it, its pretty hard to beat, and this is why I've seen many folks go off an try new MMO's and then come back to WoW at a later date.
I'm just wondering how you can say its not a good MMO with a straight face. I mean fair enough if you hate it, you don't need to ever play it, but its a pretty damn good MMO gameplay wise, and like it or loathe it I think the subscription numbers portray that.
Also as a example I can't stand Half Life, I feel the concept is a straight rip off of Doom with Aliens instead of Demons, not a fan of the look and wouldn't play it after trying a demo. However I'd never suggest its not a good shooter, it plays well, It just not a game that gels with me for some reason, so would never get it.
Manchu wrote:Panderans.
Ha, that made my day. It's about time this game kicked the bucket.
To be fair though Manchu, thats never going to happen, even if I and a load of others walk away tomorrow, the core Hardcore/Casual fans of this games means it will run for years, the subs can half and Blizz will still happily run the game, its made them shedloads of money, and even if it did ever get to critical numbers, they'd just adopt a free to play model.
I think anyone hoping for the death of the game, are waiting for the apocalypse to happen, as right now, thats more likely than Blizzard canning the game. If you listen to Metzen and others at Blizzcon just gone, they are seeing multiple expansions to come. Hell I think my assumption that the game would end when they get to lvl 100 is wrong now going on hints they are making.
Now obviously saying that this game will have to end at some point, well you'd think, however I'm starting to think that could five or six years away, if not longer, as long as Blizz keeps updating the look with each update, there isn't even a need for a WoW 2, which is what I thought would eventually happen when I first got into the game in 2006.
They noted that the Pandaran for example have a better face than any of the races with something like double or triple the equivilent bone shapes under the skin. The art department are already planning to roll it out to effect all the other races at some point, they aren't in a rush, but its on the cards. So slowly the game upgrades from underneath.
Doctadeth wrote:Sorry blizzard, but after 5 years of these banal updates to WOW....I still don't give a rats ass. WOW was touted as the first ever good MMORPG.
Nope, thats still Richard Garret's Ultima Online, and Everquest to me.
Naaaaaaah, that goes to RuneScape.... /sarcasm
Ragnarok Online..
"run's for the hills"
You guys have TERRIBLE ways of spelling Shadowbane.....
You know, Shadowbane was good. For the first 3 months. Then the game kind of broke itself. Awful awful coding.....
I went back and checked out Cataclysm not too long ago. The new areas looked great, some of the quests were fun, but pretty much as soon as I got my level maxed I got bored and quit again. The endgame stuff is just boring as hell because raiding is stupid. The leveling up process was fun when the game was new, now it's just old and stale.
That said, I still think it's a great game. Polished and well done and it's the most popular ever for a reason. But, for me anyway, I can only play a video game for so long before I just can't anymore.
I'm sure I'll go back and see all the new panda stuff, just to check it out. But I don't expect to stick around too long.
Aye, I took four months off earlier this year, it does that to me on occasion as well. Doesn't help I'm not much of a raider either.
I do enjoy leveling alts mind, hence being desperate for Blizz to add some kind of additional Character slots system, even if it was paid for per slot by the time Mists launches.
I also find that my guild brings me back more so than the endgame, and like with my 360, I enjoy collecting achievements. My main is a pet hunter for example, she has 159 companion pets as of last count, so yeah, I suppose you get what you want out of it.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Out of intrest Mel as I've seen you note a few times you play other MMO's, what are you actual issues with it?
I think it'd save time if I said what problems I didn't have with it. Which would be a fantasy setting, mostly. If I had to list specifics, then the graphical style of the characters is horrendous, the storyline is banal, the visual design of the game world itseif is uninspired and uninteresting, and the gameplay gets a similar reaction with its grindfest style, though in that region at least it's not the worst in the MMO genre (Rising Force Online is the worst grindfest I've ever played, though that at least had more interesting visuals, which are important when your'e playing a game for hours and hours upon end).
corpsesarefun wrote:Mel is a person of strong opinion, she either loves a game or hates it.
She also has a habit of looking at things as they are and taking for granted they weren't always like that. I hate the monstrosity WoW has become as much as the next guy, but WoW became the King of MMO's oh so many years ago for a reason and it wasn't because it 'wasn't good.'
LordofHats wrote:She also has a habit of looking at things as they are and taking for granted they weren't always like that. I hate the monstrosity WoW has become as much as the next guy, but WoW became the King of MMO's oh so many years ago for a reason and it wasn't because it 'wasn't good.'
... dude, I was playing MMOs before WoW was ever released. You don't know what the feth your'e talking about if you think that I didn't see WoW back when it began.
LordofHats wrote: hate the monstrosity WoW has become as much as the next guy, but WoW became the King of MMO's oh so many years ago for a reason and it wasn't because it 'wasn't good.'
You're right.
It became the "King of MMOs" for three major reasons:
1) Accessibility. When WoW came out, its competition was games which required high end system specs. While playing EverQuest from launch to Shadows of Luclin, I had to upgrade my PC every time an expansion launched. When I played WoW from a year or so after launch until Cataclysm--I upgraded once every two expansions.
2) Ease of play. WoW was very forgiving in terms of gameplay. There were mechanics that did not completely and utterly screw you over anytime you died on a PvP server. They also were set up so that recovering from wipes during raids(and organizing said raids) was fairly easy.
3) A prior existing playerbase. If WoW had launched cold, with no Warcraft or Starcraft or Diablo I/II playerbase to build from--I can almost guarantee that we would have seen it flop. When it launched, it was a bugridden mess whose servers crashed every other two days. Now, it's far more stable but there are still the occasional hiccups.
Doctadeth wrote:Sorry blizzard, but after 5 years of these banal updates to WOW....I still don't give a rats ass. WOW was touted as the first ever good MMORPG.
Nope, thats still Richard Garret's Ultima Online, and Everquest to me.
Naaaaaaah, that goes to RuneScape.... /sarcasm
Ragnarok Online..
"run's for the hills"
You guys have TERRIBLE ways of spelling Shadowbane.....
You know, Shadowbane was good. For the first 3 months. Then the game kind of broke itself. Awful awful coding.....
Blashpemy. I just started playing when it was F2P with all the expansions, and I had an absolute blast on that game, my Mage Channeler whooped EVERYONE'S arse
Also don't forget, folks have short memories, every large MMO that has launched in the past three years has suffered from the exact problems WoW had at launch.
The problem is apart from the odd hiccup, WoW is now extremely stable, and folks aren't giving new MMO's a chance to settle.
No one either played, or knows how bad WoW was at launch, so they don't think its normal. A few MMO's fell straight into life support when they deserved a better crack, and player base.
I'm hoping ToR does very well myself, otherwise potential MMO's that might be awesome in the future might never even leave the ideas board.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Also don't forget, folks have short memories, every large MMO that has launched in the past three years has suffered from the exact problems WoW had at launch.
The problem is apart from the odd hiccup, WoW is now extremely stable, and folks aren't giving new MMO's a chance to settle.
No one either played, or knows how bad WoW was at launch, so they don't think its normal. A few MMO's fell straight into life support when they deserved a better crack, and player base.
Not only that, but the behemoth also times their expansions (or expansion related content) to coincide with the launches of these 'major' MMOs.
Warhammer Online launched? The Wrath talent overhaul launched as well.
Age of Conan launched? Burning Crusade launched the Sunwell content(if I'm remembering right, I had taken a break from WoW and the drama of my guild at the time).
Now, with The Old Republic launching this year--Pandaren, Blizzard's ace in the hole are launching.
I'm hoping ToR does very well myself, otherwise potential MMO's that might be awesome in the future might never even leave the ideas board.
I'll be playing The Old Republic, no ifs ands or buts. I think EA learned from Warhammer Online's failure, and BioWare was partially involved in the game as well. It's why they're selling a much smaller run of copies than they normally would for the launch of a major game like this.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:I've played/tried WoW, WaR, EQ2, CoH/V, Champions Online, Guild Wars and Lineage 2.
As a MMO player I don't see a whole huge difference between any of them, (In the same way as a fps fan I don't see a whole lot of difference between Halo and other shooters when you look at the basics) subject matter maybe in the extremes of Superhero v's fantasy, as your powers feel slightly different. However at their heart they all play in a similar fashion and WoW seems to me to play the best. This is mainly due to six years of polish, regardless of other factors, quite a few of the MMO's above I noted are fun to play, but are sluggish and not as responsive as WoW when playing.
I can get disliking WoW for story changes, its look and a various number of cosmetic reasons, but for the fundemental gameplay of it, its pretty hard to beat, and this is why I've seen many folks go off an try new MMO's and then come back to WoW at a later date.
First of all, CoH is the only game on that list that was released pre-WoW and wasn't later changed to accomodate the casual MMO gamer surge that WoW created (even though it has always been easier and more user-friendly than WoW, with a much more singular focus on combat). Every other game you mentioned was influenced way too much by World of Warcraft and it's success (even EQ2 fell victim to this, post release), hence their similarities.
It's obvious you've never played a good sandbox MMO with open-ended character development (back before they were also disfigured by WoW), wherein you can actually affect the world and the way other players experience the game to a great degree, instead of running through set content and chasing your next level or piece of equipment. If you had, you might see why so many people call WoW a bad game. It's not because it's not responsive, or because the gameplay sucks, but because it doesn't have features that make it a world, with visible returns on your investment of time and effort and an actual sense of community. WoW is hardly a second life, it's merely a pretty grind (where you strive to achieve the same goals as everyone else) that has destroyed nearly MMO released before it (and after) with it's success. Now sandbox MMO gamers are forced to play theme park MMOs if they want to get their fix, and it's nowhere near as gratifying to upgrade your character as it is to shape the world and your place in it.
Hopefully this explains most of the WoW hate you see. People miss what the genre (mostly) used to be before WoW, as they have been left with no respite from WoW clones (aside from EVE, which is obtuse to say the least).
Kanluwen wrote:I've played/tried WoW, WaR, EQ2, CoH/V, Champions Online, Guild Wars and Lineage 2.
As a MMO player I don't see a whole huge difference between any of them, (In the same way as a fps fan I don't see a whole lot of difference between Halo and other shooters when you look at the basics) subject matter maybe in the extremes of Superhero v's fantasy, as your powers feel slightly different.
However at their heart they all play in a similar fashion and WoW seems to me to play the best. This is mainly due to six years of polish, regardless of other factors, quite a few of the MMO's above I noted are fun to play, but are sluggish and not as responsive as WoW when playing.
I can get disliking WoW for story changes, its look and a various number of cosmetic reasons, but for the fundemental gameplay of it, its pretty hard to beat, and this is why I've seen many folks go off an try new MMO's and then come back to WoW at a later date.
First of all, CoH is the only game on that list that was released pre-WoW and wasn't later changed to accomodate the casual MMO gamer surge that WoW created (even though it has always been easier and more user-friendly than WoW, with a much more singular focus on combat). Every other game you mentioned was influenced way too much by World of Warcraft and it's success (even EQ2 fell victim to this, post release), hence their similarities.
It's obvious you've never played a good sandbox MMO with open-ended character development (back before they were also disfigured by WoW), wherein you can actually affect the world and the way other players experience the game to a great degree, instead of running through set content and chasing your next level or piece of equipment. If you had, you might see why so many people call WoW a bad game. It's not because it's not responsive, or because the gameplay sucks, but because it doesn't have features that make it a world, with visible returns on your investment of time and effort and an actual sense of community. WoW is hardly a second life, it's merely a pretty grind (where you strive to achieve the same goals as everyone else) that has destroyed nearly MMO released before it (and after) with it's success. Now sandbox MMO gamers are forced to play theme park MMOs if they want to get their fix, and it's nowhere near as gratifying to upgrade your character as it is to shape the world and your place in it.
Hopefully this explains most of the WoW hate you see. People miss what the genre (mostly) used to be before WoW, as they have been left with no respite from WoW clones (aside from EVE, which is obtuse to say the least).
Indeed.
I hate to harken back to it, YET AGAIN, but Shadowbane was all set up on politics. Once you got off of "Noob Island", it was all one hundred percent player interaction.
I have a city, I need materials for it. You people need my land, I need your minerals. I think we can work something out. No? Ok, our nation will just start hangin out near your Mines. Oh, you don't like that, so your going to start shooting my people, "politely"? I think we have a problem....
And then come the city sieges. That's actually how I started a civil war in the game. We were promised resources for our cooperation, didn't receive them, and just quit the field of battle, allowing our "allies" to die like cattle. Caused quite a bit of ruckus, let me tell you. No one had EVER left a city siege mid battle like that.
And this isn't even including the CN, or Chinese Nation, as they called themselves. Bunch of Chinese joined the servers not long after that, told everyone "Hey, your going to play how we want you to play, or we are going to have a problem". Well.... we had a problem. That's about when we had the most fun with the game, to tell the truth. You would be in the woods, roughing up someone who stole a charge's lunch money, when a CN member came on Track, a ceasefire was called and we had an entire group of people roll out and kill them. (Luckily, my brother was never caught stealing from them before, during, and after )
Crap, now I miss Asheron's Call, too. Especially because I was like 14 or 15 when I played, and I must've had ADD cuz I had 10 characters at like level 20. Never got too far in it. It'd probably be tough to go back, at this point, the game has to be insanely top-heavy, and even more bot-infested than it was back in the day. I'm also probably looking at it with rose-colored glasses. I would definitely like a similar sandboxy game with decent PvE and PvP content... like an Asheron's Call 3, I suppose. More of a sequel to AC than AC2 was.
City of Heroes: Freedom has been out for a few weeks now. You have to pay to access Going Rogue, but once you buy it, you have unlimited access to the content (you are not required to subscribe, in other words).
It still holds up decently. I spent a lot of time in CoH, simply because I enjoyed creating different character concepts. It's probably the most shallow MMO on the market, but what it does, it still does exceedingly well.
Kanluwen wrote:Now, with The Old Republic launching this year--Pandaren, Blizzard's ace in the hole are launching.
No. Blizzard is launching the Deathwing battle to coincide with TOR's release on Dec 20 in patch 4.3 from what I hear. Pandera is following their normal 2 year expansion cycle. I don't think they've ever had the benefit of getting to hose another MMO with a full expansion Usually they launch long awaited content to strategically hurt rivals in the vital first few weeks.
I can appreciate the viciousness but it does seem a little mean
Kanluwen wrote:Now, with The Old Republic launching this year--Pandaren, Blizzard's ace in the hole are launching.
No. Blizzard is launching the Deathwing battle to coincide with TOR's release on Dec 20 in patch 4.3 from what I hear. Pandera is following their normal 2 year expansion cycle. I don't think they've ever had the benefit of getting to hose another MMO with a full expansion Usually they launch long awaited content to strategically hurt rivals in the vital first few weeks.
I can appreciate the viciousness but it does seem a little mean
See, you're underestimating exactly how big of a deal the mere announcement of Pandaria is. When I played, I knew people who would bankrupt themselves if it meant having the Pandaren as a playable race.
I personally never understood the lure. It's anthropomorphic panda bears, big whoop.
Kanluwen wrote:See, you're underestimating exactly how big of a deal the mere announcement of Pandaria is. When I played, I knew people who would bankrupt themselves if it meant having the Pandaren as a playable race.
I personally never understood the lure. It's anthropomorphic panda bears, big whoop.
I'm just saying a different release is coinciding with TOR's launch. I don't find anything unusual about the announcement. This is the same time and manner new WoW expansions have always been announced. At Blizzcon. Now I do think them picking Panderans over the Emerald Dream or some such is a big deal. I think its a sign of desperation. Surely Blizzard isn't completely oblivious to how precarious their boat has gotten and how many players really wish they had something better to do with their time So rather than building on the lore they have, they throw in the wild card everyone wants.
I don't get the pandas either though I have a buddy who has played WoW constantly for its entire life (despite his claims that he hates it *I don't believe him*). He says that the original lore was really good, but I've never seen it and he complains that the new lore sucks in comparison.
I'm actually surprised Emerald Dream isn't the next expansion. That one's seemed to be the crowd favorite for the next WoW expansion for awhile from what I could tell. I don't really see how panda people will drawn in new demographics. Maybe it can build of the popularity of Kung Fu Panda but the movie isn't that popular. I don't really see any way for WoW to expand its player base. More or less the bulk of the MMO player community plays WoW. Blizzards real plan I assume is retention, which the panda people seems to achieve for reasons unknown to us apparently.
P.S. They'd actually score points with me if they had some random NPC or PC voice that said 'Skadoosh.'
Chrysaor686 wrote:City of Heroes: Freedom has been out for a few weeks now. You have to pay to access Going Rogue, but once you buy it, you have unlimited access to the content (you are not required to subscribe, in other words).
It still holds up decently. I spent a lot of time in CoH, simply because I enjoyed creating different character concepts. It's probably the most shallow MMO on the market, but what it does, it still does exceedingly well.
I think you'll enjoy Transformers Universe when it comes out. From playing with the Character Creator at Botcon, it's very reminiscent of CoX's, even down to being able to choose your alt mode. Aesthetics wise, it takes place in the Aligned Continuity(War for Cybertron and TF: Prime).
Supposedly, it'll have more than just 'Bots and 'Cons, too.
@Lordofhats - They've oddly skipped over that though, there was a novel, and some in game events, dreams wtc for a little while and I think that is considered done.
Both Malfurion is back awake, and Ysera is back as well, so I'm pretty sure they said at last years Blizzcon they considered Emerald Dream done. Note sure why, perhaps they didn't feel there was much of a story to it.
I know Chris Metzen likes the idea of going to the Draenei homeworld at some point, and also allowing the players to face the full might of the Shattered Legion.
@Chrysaor, aye you are probably right there. Sadly with no experience of them, I can't really shed much of a opnion. I didn't even have a gaming ready PC till 2003, so I missed a lot of the older stuff.
I do know from folks I've spoken to in the know, that Mythic (or GW telling them so) made a huge error in not continuing with the DAoC style and having three factions, they didn't last long in WaR because they felt it was too much of a WoW clone.
On a side note, I do have a paid CoH account, haven't played this month, put I'm a 'premium?' (not sure what sub holders are called) member at the mo, love that game, sadly Aura isn't much of a Superhero fan, otherwise we'd be playing it more.
Actaully, even if you buy all the Going Rogue stuff in City of Heroes available to Free-to-Play players, you don't get access to the Incarnate system, which is the endgame content for City of Heroes. You need to subscribe to do that.
corpsesarefun wrote:If only there was a high quality MMO that was truly sub free...
So far, such a thing does not exist, for the most part. I fething love City of Heroes but again, you have to sub for endgame, and it's definitely not going to appeal to everyone. It's just always struck the right chord with me; character advancement, customization, combat, and while it's certainly not Bioware, I've always liked CoH's story arcs. A lot of people like LotRO, but I found it kind of dull. Guild Wars 2 looks like it'll be pretty good; it's not free to play per se since you have to buy the box, but there's no monthly fee. DCUO is going free-to-play but it's about as deep as wading pool. Combat is a blast, but the game is lacking in... substance.
Free to Play seems to be the future, according to many in the industry; I wouldn't be surprised if The Old Republic was the last real subscription based game.
Well, GW 2 or LoTRO would be your best bet. You do have to buy stuff in the item shop to get access to certain content for LotRO, but I don't think you'll have to for GW2.
Shrike325 wrote:I've been playing WoW off an on since release, and Cata kind of killed it for me. This announcement has done nothing to change my opinion. Especially after spending some time in TOR.
This.
I've played since day 1 launch, but i've quit about a dozen times. Since Cata though, I think I've played maybe a total of 2 months. Cata was pretty terrible. To me, WoW ended with Arthas, his story has been built up since Warcraft 3 and it was an epic conclusion. Deathwing does have a lot of lore, but it was NEVER explored in really any of the games... i mean aside from his very small appearance in warcraft 2.
Honestly, the dungeons havent really been that great since TBC either. If you compare Illadins Black Temple to Lich Kings Icecrown Citadel... Black Temple was a fething epic exploration. From a crack in the wall into the sewers you fought your way to the top to square off vs Illiadin. In ICC, you ride a air ship and skip 90% of the spire , go to the top and fight around a giant doughnut killing a few bosses and fighting arthas. In Cata, first raid is what? Thats right folks, another doughnut. Similar layout to ICC, i just gave up. Came back for firelands, got my dungeon gear, our first week we got to rag :/
Very disappointing. Will not be purchasing this xpac and will be moving to GW2 and SWTOR when they release.
DMO might be a worthy game, no idea, I'm still weary over a couple of the choices, like Black Templars or go home for Marines.
The other MMO that is very likely to grab me, will be WoD, I'm keeping a close eye on that one. Hell did you see how they announcd which clans will be in game.
I was looking forward to World of Darkness Online, but now I'm leery. CCP has laid off a giant chunk of their staff, and I think all of them were working on WoDO. They want to focus on EVE. According to an Editor at Massively.com who claims to have an inside source in CCP, more layoffs are coming if revenues don't increase.
CCP will produce a WoD MMO (unless they want to get sued, since they're contractually obligated to make one due to the White Wolf Merger), but I hold out little hope that it'll be any good, and even then, I wouldn't be surprised if 2012 is no longer a realistic target.
I don't have time to watch that whole video, so I have just one question:
LOTRO is free to play the epic quests, but to unlock all the
abilities you end up having to buy points. If you pay for a little
while then cease to pay, you keep everything except access
to certain areas.
I don't know how much you can actually play for free.
@corpses - He's talking about Garou for WoD, the werewolves from Werewolf the Apocalypse.
Also I am totally there alongside him, my main reason to play WoD, would be to help the subs stay up until they hopefully added WtA to the mix. At which point I'll be playing a Wendigo or Shadowlord online if you need me.
Yeah that was my worry about Lotr free to play, as soon as folks started mentioning quest packs, and such, I raised a doubtful eyebrow.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Yeah that was my worry about Lotr free to play, as soon as folks started mentioning quest packs, and such, I raised a doubtful eyebrow.
They have to make money somehow. You can still go pretty much anywhere and grind out levels but they need to have some way of getting the money needed to both keep the servers running as well as add content. It is possible to earn enough Turbine points playing the game to "buy" these packs. All the areas up to about level 20 have everything unlocked content wise. After that having the quest packs will increase leveling speed quite a bit, but you can get along w/o it. The higher you go, the harder it would be, but that shouldn't be a surprise. I think you can get crafting skills up to Artisan before needing to unlock the next level.
Oh I agree but quests seemed an odd way to me to do it. If you look at how CoH just did their free to play stuff, it seems much more player friendly.
Your missing stuff, but the core of the game is there. The idea of going to a new zone and seeing no quests (if I am understanding it right) unless you buy them for the zone, seemed a little harsh.
I'd rather it was extra classes, cosmetic stuff, an services like race, name, extra slots or gender change.
malfred wrote:You earn points while playing, I just don't know how much you
can earn for free...
All points from any character are shared in one pool so with a little patience you can amass points by making characters on multiple servers over and over. I already had 5 characters slots from having been a subsriber back in the day before F2P and was able to make enough points to buy to or three zones easily. The trick is to wait for them to put the zone you want on sale.
If WoDO wasn't OWoD, I would be chomping at the bit for a Promethean: The Created expansion. I wonder if they'll do anything outside the core games at all (Mortals, Vampires, Werewolves, Mages).
I suppose it'll depend how it goes, the cutting staff is worrying though. I know play for items will be the way of things mind, expect to see loads of special clothing to buy from day one when the game launches.
They know for a Vampire game, where style has always played a factor, clothing items are going to be gravy for their profit margins.
RatBot wrote:Totally going to trust a link from a user from China who registered just to post said link.
It's actually a legitimate post, I checked it out. It's a preview of Mists of Pandaria from Blizzcon 2011. Although, I have to admit, the article kinda lost me when it was talking about how the monk class plays and this phrase came up: "You can also choose to spend two kick balls to cast a football against your foes forcibly."
^^ in DDO you earn enough points to make it worth it but honestly anyone with any kind of job should just go ahead and put down some of the monies eh. Or play a better game.
I didn't know we were talking about WoW. Well, WoW is cool and everyone should play it. The end.
I doubt I would personally play a panda but Monk class looks cool.
I mean sure other games are like, you know you kill the wolf and you get a piece of meat and you cook it and you get a buff or something. But I mean this is WoW we are talking about. We even have cooking hats. Heck, I even have the Cooking Hat!
(Makes you cook faster.)
I mean don't get me wrong I know those other games are OK and everything.
But yeah we take cooking pretty seriously in our old WoW. And I mean you even see it now it is a signature ability of the new race and will likely figure prominently in the new expansion, which of course everyone is excited about as the Horde and the allaince explore more of the world they call their home.
Well if nothing else WoW sure fractures opinion.. and yes, lots of hats.
I have a chef hat, various Jungle hats, my old Salty fishing cap, worgen victorian hat, and numerous others. Plus various dresses and the like that have no stats other than looking nice while standing at the AH.
In fact Blizz really needs to add some kind of wardrobe for all my stuff. Maybe I could find Narnia in the back.
I think I'm one of those people, that when Wrath of the Lich King was fully done (ie, The Lich King was defeatable), that was it for me.
To me, Warcraft revolved around the story of Arthas because whilst I started with WC and WC2, I was very young and it didn't stick with me. WC3 was where I really got into the whole thing. Of course, I'm not speaking for anyone else by that.
I tried Cataclysm, but it wasn't holding me and I think I finally escaped WoW after playing from the very beginning.
MrDwhitey wrote:I think I'm one of those people, that when Wrath of the Lich King was fully done (ie, The Lich King was defeatable), that was it for me.
To me, Warcraft revolved around the story of Arthas because whilst I started with WC and WC2, I was very young and it didn't stick with me. WC3 was where I really got into the whole thing. Of course, I'm not speaking for anyone else by that.
I tried Cataclysm, but it wasn't holding me and I think I finally escaped WoW after playing from the very beginning.
Wrath was the end of the story for me. The game can still be fun, but they dorked up aspects of the gameplay I enjoyed.
60 twinks can't get their 51 point talents anymore and now that brackets are 60-64, its dominated by 64s stacking 20 resil gems in BC socket gear.
70 was dominated by Shadow Priests, Mages, and Healers.
MrDwhitey wrote:I think I'm one of those people, that when Wrath of the Lich King was fully done (ie, The Lich King was defeatable), that was it for me.
To me, Warcraft revolved around the story of Arthas because whilst I started with WC and WC2, I was very young and it didn't stick with me. WC3 was where I really got into the whole thing. Of course, I'm not speaking for anyone else by that.
I tried Cataclysm, but it wasn't holding me and I think I finally escaped WoW after playing from the very beginning.
rockerbikie wrote:Pah. This expansion is made for the Casuals who play 1 hour a day and expect to have full epics. Pandas are unintersting and boring.
That was an intelligent and well thought out response. I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
Not my fault epic gear is being handed out too easy.
And other people getting epic gear is relevant to you how exactly? Oh, wait, it's not. You're just an elitist prick who doesn't want to see anyone that doesn't play 8 hours a day, 7 days a week getting gear the same tier color as yours.
Completely ignore the fact that the easy to acquire epics are several ilevels lower than the stuff hardcore players will get, which alone renders your point invalid and moot.
rockerbikie wrote:Pah. This expansion is made for the Casuals who play 1 hour a day and expect to have full epics. Pandas are unintersting and boring.
That was an intelligent and well thought out response. I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
Not my fault epic gear is being handed out too easy.
And other people getting epic gear is relevant to you how exactly? Oh, wait, it's not. You're just an elitist prick who doesn't want to see anyone that doesn't play 8 hours a day, 7 days a week getting gear the same tier color as yours.
Completely ignore the fact that the easy to acquire epics are several ilevels lower than the stuff hardcore players will get, which alone renders your point invalid and moot.
TLDR; Cry more.
Yeah, he's a bit late in the day to go on the epics rant too.
Epics stopped being "an Epic is an Epic" and became varying "ilevels" ages ago.
The Crusade arena (forgot real name) epics were like greens to people.
Putting it bluntly:
Epics stopped being epic when you were able to craft them using Bind on Equip materials or things you could obtain via Heroics.
When you had raid materials involved, different story. But putting it even more bluntly...
Who cares who could get epics? Epics were nothing but a carrot on a stick dangling before the horse, keeping those of us who raided to continue raiding and keeping those of us who did not raid wanting to raid.
Kanluwen wrote:Putting it bluntly:
Epics stopped being epic when you were able to craft them using Bind on Equip materials or things you could obtain via Heroics.
When you had raid materials involved, different story. But putting it even more bluntly...
Who cares who could get epics? Epics were nothing but a carrot on a stick dangling before the horse, keeping those of us who raided to continue raiding and keeping those of us who did not raid wanting to raid.
Remember vanilla when wearing blue dungeon tier gear was fething amazing?
Kanluwen wrote:Putting it bluntly:
Epics stopped being epic when you were able to craft them using Bind on Equip materials or things you could obtain via Heroics.
When you had raid materials involved, different story. But putting it even more bluntly...
Who cares who could get epics? Epics were nothing but a carrot on a stick dangling before the horse, keeping those of us who raided to continue raiding and keeping those of us who did not raid wanting to raid.
Remember vanilla when wearing blue dungeon tier gear was fething amazing?
I remember thinking "That's a good guild right there" because it had a warlock with full Dreadmist.
Kanluwen wrote:Putting it bluntly:
Epics stopped being epic when you were able to craft them using Bind on Equip materials or things you could obtain via Heroics.
When you had raid materials involved, different story. But putting it even more bluntly...
Who cares who could get epics? Epics were nothing but a carrot on a stick dangling before the horse, keeping those of us who raided to continue raiding and keeping those of us who did not raid wanting to raid.
Remember vanilla when wearing blue dungeon tier gear was fething amazing?
I remember thinking "That's a good guild right there" because it had a warlock with full Dreadmist.
Remember when Dreadmist was a purple defias mask... man i miss that headpiece, it looked bad ass.
I mean, this looked WAY better than the galactus helm
RatBot wrote:But my purples are my entire sense of self-worth! If casuals can get purples, HOW WILL PEOPLE KNOW HOW SPECIAL I AM!?
I'm certain you had a different post here.
LunaHound wrote:Its just us pvpers, ours are "welfare epics"
I remember that. Started for me at 61 when I was using full grand marshal to level my priest in Burning Crusade.
Remember in burning Crusade when you did 20 quests and replaced all of it? lol, i was SOOOO anger that I got rid of my benediction/anathema staff after the first hour of the expansion pack.
The stockholder for Dreadmist. I only ever saw it once.
And yeah, I replaced Anathema/Benediction fast, the GM gear last to 65ish (I took bits off until I just had one item left to replace), but that's partially because I loved the looks of GM gear.
I had a longer rant but decided that I could sum it up better in two sentences.
Also, the whole "replaced two levels into an expansion" thing is exactly why your purples don't really matter (well, that and they're digital items in a video game). Everything you do is going to be invalidated eventually. Might as well just do it because you find the content fun, not because you gotta have the uber-leet item. The uber-leet item is just a nice bonus.
RatBot wrote:I had a longer rant but decided that I could sum it up better in two sentences.
Also, the whole "replaced two levels into an expansion" thing is exactly why your purples don't really matter (well, that and they're digital items in a video game). Everything you do is going to be invalidated eventually. Might as well just do it because you find the content fun, not because you gotta have the uber-leet item. The uber-leet item is just a nice bonus.
The reason PvPers were said to have "welfare epics" actually had nothing to do with PvPing.
It came about courtesy of Wrath of the Lich King, with the addition of that Loot Pinata Archavon. Seriously one of the easiest fights within the game, and he dropped gear equivalent to that which the raiders were having to 'work' towards and hope for specific tokens to drop, etc.
"Welfare epics" in the context of PvP came about in the Burning Crusade though, with the addition of Arena Gear to Honor Point vendors.
Hmmm... I can't tell if this is a troll or not. Gonna have to ask my friend, Mister Joe Kerr. What do you think, Joe?
Drat.
EDIT: Whoops, didn't hit quote. Obviously, I am responding to Rockerbikie's post. Sounds like you're mad you don't have to poopsock anymore to enjoy end-game content.
I do think I should clarify that in my mind, "casual" and "hardcore" have very little to do with skill. It's true that many casual players are bad, and many hardcore players are good, but I've played with excellent casuals and terrible hardcores.
I don't think they should make content easier, or if they should do they should retain some kind of "hard mode". I would rather run content that takes maybe an hour, but is challenging, than the five hour face roll extravaganza that was Molten Core. Christ, I could watch TV and tap the 4 key/spam Decurse for the vast majority of the raid. All I had to do was glance at the screen once in a while to Blizzard down Sons of Flame or run away from the group if I was the living bomb. It certainly wasn't something the "casual" player could do, considering the time commitment, but it sure as hell wasn't difficult.
EDIT: The more I think of it, the more I don't see anything wrong with getting full epics playing one hour a day, as long as the content you get it from is challenging when taking into account you're doing it in a single group, and if it takes an appropriate amount of time. For example, if you have to run (arbitrary number for argument's sake) a raid that takes on average 4 hours to complete a total of 12 times to get all the gear you need from it, then it should take ~48 hours of playing to get these proposed casual epics from casual content. I dunno, sounds reasonable to me. Heck, make it take 50% longer.
RatBot wrote:Hmmm... I can't tell if this is a troll or not. Gonna have to ask my friend, Mister Joe Kerr. What do you think, Joe?
Drat.
EDIT: Whoops, didn't hit quote. Obviously, I am responding to Rockerbikie's post. Sounds like you're mad you don't have to poopsock anymore to enjoy end-game content.
People who can't follow complicated boss fights should not be able to beat the final boss.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
RatBot wrote:I do think I should clarify that in my mind, "casual" and "hardcore" have very little to do with skill. It's true that many casual players are bad, and many hardcore players are good, but I've played with excellent casuals and terrible hardcores.
I don't think they should make content easier, or if they should do they should retain some kind of "hard mode". I would rather run content that takes maybe an hour, but is challenging, than the five hour face roll extravaganza that was Molten Core. Christ, I could watch TV and tap the 4 key/spam Decurse for the vast majority of the raid. All I had to do was glance at the screen once in a while to Blizzard down Sons of Flame or run away from the group if I was the living bomb. It certainly wasn't something the "casual" player could do, considering the time commitment, but it sure as hell wasn't difficult.
EDIT: The more I think of it, the more I don't see anything wrong with getting full epics playing one hour a day, as long as the content you get it from is challenging when taking into account you're doing it in a single group, and if it takes an appropriate amount of time. For example, if you have to run (arbitrary number for argument's sake) a raid that takes on average 4 hours to complete a total of 12 times to get all the gear you need from it, then it should take ~48 hours of playing to get these proposed casual epics from casual content. I dunno, sounds reasonable to me. Heck, make it take 50% longer.
Burning Crusade was the best of WoW. Seriously, if you can't play the game for a long time then you will proabably should not get full epics. Heroic Dungeons should give green, Raids should give Blue and Heroic raids should give epics.
Heh, reminds me of the sewer runs in city of villains. Some people can't understand the idea of "kill the boss first" (Dr. Vhazilok, the boss of his faction) or "kill the boss last" (the Lost boss, The Prophet) or "don't stand where the ground is glowing, it's a one hit kill" (the Hydra megaboss at the end)...
Actually no... Hear me out. If you can't put the time in to be good at the game then you shouldn't be rewarded with the end boss. Your boss doesn't pay you for 45 hours of work if you only work 10.
Actually no... Hear me out. If you can't put the time in to be good at the game then you shouldn't be rewarded with the end boss. Your boss doesn't pay you for 45 hours of work if you only work 10.
Your boss isn't part of a game.
oops, shouldn't be responding to blatant trolling, just feeds.
Actually no... Hear me out. If you can't put the time in to be good at the game then you shouldn't be rewarded with the end boss. Your boss doesn't pay you for 45 hours of work if you only work 10.
Your boss isn't part of a game.
oops, shouldn't be responding to blatant trolling, just feeds.
I am not trolling. I am responding with my actual opinon. If you think I am trolling still, I probably don't care. If an opinion is an unpopular opinion, the person who states automatically becomes a "troll". The point is that if you don't put the work into getting to the raid and get it by stupid badges. It makes normal raids worthless and only Heroic Raids worth something.
Hell, pardon me for bringing up CoV again, but I remember the end-game mission way back when, where you went and had to defeat eight superheroes-- each one individually capable of wiping a team-- at the same time.
And we did it, by paragon, we did it! They made it harder and harder, and we villains teamed up, made strategies, and beat those damned capes to a bloody pulp over and over again!
Meanwhile when hte heroes were given a similar mission, which was actually EASIER because they only had to face the supervillains one by one (though the villains were individually tougher, the heroes were very capable of using teamwork and powerful support powers), they complained about how hard it was.
Facerolling on the keyboard to kill hundreds of easy mobs for five hours before a relatively straight forward boss fight is not challenging, it is just a matter of who has more time rather than who has more skill.
Facerolling on the keyboard to kill hundreds of easy mobs for five hours before a relatively straight forward boss fight is not challenging, it is just a matter of who has more time rather than who has more skill.
Yessum. The only "skill" required I found when raiding endgame was finding people with good enough gear, an inclination to following vague commands and heaps of spare time. Pretty much all wipes were due to people who didn't follow vague commands and just sat there.
Facerolling on the keyboard to kill hundreds of easy mobs for five hours before a relatively straight forward boss fight is not challenging, it is just a matter of who has more time rather than who has more skill.
Yessum. The only "skill" required I found when raiding endgame was finding people with good enough gear, an inclination to following vague commands and heaps of spare time. Pretty much all wipes were due to people who didn't follow vague commands and just sat there.
Mages and C'thun come to mind...
Counterspell the fething EYESTALKS
This seems pretty accurate. Although with this raiding tier in a 10 man if one person screws up, you're probably going to wipe :/, happened many a time.
Facerolling on the keyboard to kill hundreds of easy mobs for five hours before a relatively straight forward boss fight is not challenging, it is just a matter of who has more time rather than who has more skill.
Though the high end Guilds who have alot of time. When the do a mistake, they wipe and rebuff.
Facerolling on the keyboard to kill hundreds of easy mobs for five hours before a relatively straight forward boss fight is not challenging, it is just a matter of who has more time rather than who has more skill.
Yessum. The only "skill" required I found when raiding endgame was finding people with good enough gear, an inclination to following vague commands and heaps of spare time. Pretty much all wipes were due to people who didn't follow vague commands and just sat there.
Heh. In CoV (yes, I know, but it IS my favorite MMO thus far) the issue is finding a team that works well together. Avoiding scrapperlock/brutelock for example (where the aformentioned melee/defense classes lose focus and just melees everything it sees instead of focusing on what the team needs, often aggroing enemies we don't want to aggro yet-- dominatos also have this issue due to their Domination ability, although they're a control/dps class so it's not quite as bad).
Having a good brute (melee/defense, a rage meter that builds with each attack and drains over time) or tank (defense/melee, each attack gathers aggro from mobs around them) and a good defender (support/ranged, endurance cost reduction depending on teammates' health levels) or corrupter (ranged/support, deals increasing damage the lower the enemy's health is) are the only two really necessary ones.
And when I say support, I don't mean "healer". Healing is actually the weakest support type in City of Heroes/Villains... something that is somewhat unique to the game and actually makes it more fun. One of the best support power sets is Energy Field (or shield?), which has no healing at all, but instead dramatically reduces the enemy's chance to hit and reduces damage when they do hit. All classes have access to at least one self-heal, and most of them have multiple anyway...
Class balance is something that many MMOs have a problem with...
Well if we are talking about this Heroic Dungeons in Cat were made harder because players were expected to know what they were doing but then good players were not able to get their valor caps from pugs. Now I was just thinking now what they _COULD_ do, you could have like, entry into heroic pugs based on skill. Like if you are good you get good players. Unfortunately you probably get into problems with queue times based on lack of skilled healers etc.
In Panda-Land they are going back to EZPZ heroics so people can get their valor for their time spent playing, which I suppose is "babysitting the casuals".
The answer of course, is not to run pugs at all and make everything work through a guild system where people have to be on, and people have to work together.
But anyway. WoW is going back to Wrath-difficulty Heroic Dungeons in Panda-Land. Well we are on page 10 have we talked about this yet.
As far as the pug raid finders are concerned they seem like almost an experiment more than "reward the losers with no guild." The best play, and the best MMO experience will always come from guilds. Besides lots of players might want to just run their alts for giggles.
It's really annoying when they do that. I've had guild/clan/whatever members who simply didn't have the time to dedicate multiple hours in a day to this sort of thing. Insulting them just because they have to focus on class to better their lives is just childish...
Casual players are fine. Let them play at their own pace, they don't have to match you...
Melissia wrote:It's really annoying when they do that. I've had guild/clan/whatever members who simply didn't have the time to dedicate multiple hours in a day to this sort of thing. Insulting them just because they have to focus on class to better their lives is just childish...
Casual players are fine. Let them play at their own pace, they don't have to match you...
I never really played casually, but the only time they annoyed me is they got into my heroics and sucked.
Melissia wrote:It's really annoying when they do that. I've had guild/clan/whatever members who simply didn't have the time to dedicate multiple hours in a day to this sort of thing. Insulting them just because they have to focus on class to better their lives is just childish...
Casual players are fine. Let them play at their own pace, they don't have to match you...
I never really played casually, but the only time they annoyed me is they got into my heroics and sucked.
You can be casual and be good
I'd play only during raiding and MAYBE 2-4 hours outside of raiding and did just fine... that being said I'm no Re-Re and I know how to play MMO's and "GET" roles.
LunaHound wrote:Thats why there are Tiers for Epics.
Casuals don't deserve raids or epics.
Gotta put that time and 'work' into raiding!
Yea, remind me not to ever do that again. Games are supposed to be fun, not work. BC/vanilla raiding was work.
People also probably call you a troll since personal attacks are against the rules. Troll.
The only work was getting and coordinating 40 people and to be honest that was worth it to me.
I liked working with large groups of people to get things done and I liked the unity and teamwork that arose from it.
I quit towards toward the end of BC because I was getting bored and it was clear it was becoming easier. My brother played halfway through WOTLK and he said it was incredibly easy to get epics. A friend who currently plays it told me they now have PUG raid groups that can get through the high end stuff in just a few hours. It seems like a downward decline of difficulty to me. There seems to be no coordination required any more for this stuff. It seems you don't have to work at strategies to win the raids any more, its just show up with a group of random's and you'll be given your treat with the minimum of effort.
I was never into PvP, so raiding mattered to me and I liked the challenge. I never actually expected they would put in 10 man groups for Arthas. I thought it would require 40 cream of crop players to take him down when they did eventually implement him. Kinda disappointing to me I guess.
off the Chinese. Can't have that now. The Chinese boters and gold sellers make up a good chunk of their of their business!
). They're utterly epic. There were three last I checked.
It's almost like a bunch of blizzard employes were sitting around half baked thinking of a new race to add...
