I'm pretty sure this has probaley come up on numerous ocations. But I'd thought I would ask

The question is in the title

It has, and I have always avoided putting unpainted models on the table myself.

heres my mine. I don't mind, A game is a game, painted armies are better in the long run though because gaming looks a lot better and you can sit down and say "I painted all that!"

My step dad hates it when people dont paint their models.

I have played a few times with unpainted models. At The time I was building the army and just got started. But even now as I am repainting my army. I will not use them till they are fully painted

When I played GW stuff i always ended up with unpainted minis. I didnt have the willpower to resist buying new things til models were done!

Now that I've moved on to Malifaux (which has between 6 - 12 models a side) I have belong to field only Painted crews, and I must say, it is enormously satisfying to play with a fully painted crew/army!

I mainly play with well painted models - but I don't paint them best of both worlds

Happy to play against unpainted - prefer if they are actually made though even if proxies.

Tonight I will field a fully painted 40k army for the first time ever. Been in the hobby since '98

Some people are just gamers, they play the game and are not into the modelling side. So I have no problem with that. I was like that myself at first, but the bug got me and nowadays I rarely play with unpainted minis.

I'm playing with mostly unpainted minis, becuase I keep buying more models. However, I am now refusing to buy any more models until I have my 2K of Word Bearers fully painted, because I want to be able to field a fully painted army. Thanks go A D-B for the inspiration!

EDIT: damnable typos!

I don't mind either, I do like the look of painted models more but I'd rather take my time a little and not rush them.

i never put an unpainted model on the tabletop.

Occasionally as I buy new models I'll try them out, unpainted, but they annoy me, so I paint them quick. Try to play fully painted at all times as I really appreciate the visual aspect of two painted armies on a good quality battlefield. I enjoy the games more, even if I get beat. I don't mind playing against unpainted models, do so regularly at a club I play at.

I hate people who hate people with unpainted models

Seriously, I don't like painting its really boring, I make plans to paint and sometimes I get everything out and ready to start painting and then just put it all away again. I would rather play with a painted army, when I borrowed a friends army (happened twice actually, different people different army as well) for a tournament that was painted models only, It looked much nicer. But It didn't make me sit there and think oh I really need to paint my stuff look at all these people here who have spent so much time on painting. But I would still like to play with a fully painted army.

Its YOUR hobby, and it really annoys me when people tell you what you should and shouldn't do (well sometimes they need to, but with things like painting your warhammer models...) It happens in loads of hobbies, watching football for example. The amount of people on the NCFC forum I go on who moan about people not singing at games is annoying, you can't force people to sign at the game if they don't want to, if they want to sit and enjoy 90 mins of Football then so be it, up to them.

I do put some effort occasionally into painting, I've even got into a couple of projects (especially my Trygon, which my friend has now damage leaving it in a box to get battered about, loads of chipped bits Luckily it wasn't the most wonderful paintjob, and still needed finishing anyway).

Wargaming consists of 3 aspects in my mind: Hobby, Gaming, Fluff. (They can then be split down further, like games into tournament play etc) and if your in it just to play games, or just to paint thats absolutely fine. And to be honest, surely its the people who think otherwise who are in the wrong?

lord_blackfang wrote:Tonight I will field a fully painted 40k army for the first time ever. Been in the hobby since '98

Same here, but still have no fully painted army

My opinion on the matter is that I will quite happily play with and/or against unpainted armies, but that does not then justify NEVER painting the army.

For me it creates a wonderful cycle, playing games makes me want to paint my minis, and painting my minis makes me want to play games with them

The consensus is that people who play with painted models and refuse to play against unpainted models are the refined gentlemen of the 40k Hobby. They play grand games of chess-like intensity where the slightest tactical mistake is reason enough to disinherit your children, give up your material possessions, and live a life of solitude in the desert. But for these paragons of tactics, such mistakes are more rare than a unicorn showing up at the back door asking for spare change. The conclusion of a well-played tactical event is cause for celebration: the donning of monocles, sipping of brandy from enormous snifters, and chuckling at the misfortunes of the lower classes.

For those of us in said lower classes, who sully our dignity by playing against someone with unpainted (or *gasp* unbased!) models or those who slink to the depths of society itself and actually field unpainted models, we're simply happy to get in a game.

So I've really got no problem with unpainted models on either side of the table.

Unpainted models distract and aggravate me.


There's also the argument of contrast: It is far easier to discern painted troops for what they are, or what they carry.

Trueplastic plastic is something I will not play against on a regular basis.

Exception being: When someone tests out a unit, or somesuch, and I know him for painting his stuff up in general.

I would rather play with fully painted, based, pristine models, but I dont mind unpainted minis. Unless we are playing on a really beautiful table

ParatrooperSimon wrote:I'm pretty sure this has probaley come up on numerous ocations.

Monthly it comes up.
Here's a couple recent threads that may interest you:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/400622.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/308803.page

However, I'm rather passionate about the glories of playing with painted miniatures so I'll chime in. Rather than quoting, I've underlined a few sections that might counter some of the stereotypes in earlier posts about folks who don't play with unpainted miniatures.

I only play with painted models, the exception being that once in a great while I'll play with a figure that is mostly painted that I haven't quite had time to finish. Additionally, if I have no other option, I might accept a game from someone with unpainted minis, but I go out of my way to only play against individuals with painted forces.

My gaming club all feel the same way . We so enjoy the "Spectacle of Painted Armies" that we only use painted miniatures at club gaming meetups and we always have extra painted models to share with gamers who want to play but don't have painted models. It does help that we mostly play generic (rules that can be tailored to any miniatures) skirmish gaming (8-25 models per side) and we are not "Competition-Focused" gamers who have an impetus to get certain units to the table immidiately.

Most of us have collections of painted minis that are as numerous as 3 or more 1500 point 40k armies, so it's not as though we are slacking off of painting by playing smaller games. The main factor for us is that we're all reasonably busy adults who only wargame every week and or two and we all feel that "Life's too short for visually uninspiring gaming!"

Not surprisingly, some folks have already tossed around terms like "hate". For us it has nothing to do with hating on other gamers. Rather, it's simply that we have a standard and style of gaming that we really enjoy and we stick to it. Folks who like our way of gaming are welcome to game with us and those who don't can go elsewhere. Luckily (as proven by the tables at our FLGS) for those with different gaming priorities and standards there are plenty (perhaps the majority of gamers) who are happy to play games with grey hordes.

I don't care what you use to play the game. If you wanna proxy a whole space marine army with WFB high elf spearmen, go for it. If you want to spray prime your blood angels red and leave em like that forever, that's fine too. If you never, ever paint your army because you hate painting or you just don't have time, that's great too. I just care about playing a fun game That said, it is more fun to play a game where both armies are fully painted, but I know can be a rare thing and I'm not gonna hold it against someone if they don't paint stuff.

For my own armies, I used to be the type that wouldn't field any models that were unpainted. But, as I got older and busier that philosophy slowly changed, now most of my armies are half painted. I could go 2 years without buying anything new at all, and still have stuff to paint on a regular basis. I just don't have the spare time I used to when I was younger :(

I'm ok with playing with un-painted models. I just don't have the time between school, work, girlfriend, friends, and the like to paint my army extremely quick. I've been playing for about 6 months and have my army 80% painted but I can barely find the time for warhammer, and most of that time i'd rather be playing rather than painting.

I paint.

You don't have to.

Eilif wrote:

ParatrooperSimon wrote:I'm pretty sure this has probaley come up on numerous ocations.

Monthly it comes up.
Here's a couple recent threads that may interest you:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/400622.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/308803.page

Yeah. It's been covered repeatedly. However, here is a copy/paste of my opinion from one of those threads.

I appreciate a well painted army but I understand if people don't like painting as much as I do. My army certainly isn't 100% painted, but I make sure that a new miniature or unit has been painted since the last time I played. The first time I put a 100% painted army on the table was very satisfying for me.

kronk wrote:

Eilif wrote:

ParatrooperSimon wrote:I'm pretty sure this has probaley come up on numerous ocations.

Monthly it comes up.
Here's a couple recent threads that may interest you:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/400622.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/308803.page

Yeah. It's been covered repeatedly. However, here is a copy/paste of my opinion from one of those threads.

I appreciate a well painted army but I understand if people don't like painting as much as I do. My army certainly isn't 100% painted, but I make sure that a new miniature or unit has been painted since the last time I played. The first time I put a 100% painted army on the table was very satisfying for me.

And this is how the hobby supposed to be. I do not expect a fully painted army every time I play a casual game, but I always praise those people that make the attempt of getting their army fully painted, even it is a couple of models per month. A fully painted army is not hard to do. You simply have to put yourself on a simple schedule that you keep. Besides as other people have posted, two painted armies sure do look good on a good game table.

Stormcallers wrote:I'm ok with playing with un-painted models. I just don't have the time between school, work, girlfriend, friends, and the like to paint my army extremely quick. I've been playing for about 6 months and have my army 80% painted but I can barely find the time for warhammer, and most of that time i'd rather be playing rather than painting.

That is part of life my friend but at least you are trying to get a painted army out and that I commend you. Keep doing what you can and make sure you got your priorities right. Friends and Family always comes first

Again this is what I have stressed about painting. Everything is subjective. If you are happy on how you painted your army then that is the way you should go. I do not pass judgement on how people paint as I rather have the art style continue than to have someone leave the hobby because some LoZer who has no life besides 40Crack making comments about other people's skills. Enjoy painting. In my case it is a great stress reliever as well as continuing to create items and things.

What is exceptional about Dakka is that there are so many talented people who paint and create and are willing to share their ideas with others, and give advice
to those that will listen and try to improve their skills if they wish too.

kronk wrote: Yeah. It's been covered repeatedly. However, here is a copy/paste of my opinion from one of those threads.

I appreciate a well painted army but I understand if people don't like painting as much as I do. My army certainly isn't 100% painted, but I make sure that a new miniature or unit has been painted since the last time I played. The first time I put a 100% painted army on the table was very satisfying for me.

This is exactly the view I take. I am mainly in the hobby for gaming purposes and competitive play, so although I could field at least a 2000 point fully painted/based army (very enjoyable and a great sense of achievement the first time I did this), my 1500 point armies are not usually fully painted because my list changes on a 3/4 monthly basis depending on meta and what I deem to be most competitive at the time. That said I also do try to get 1 new unit painted in between battles, as this is generally a very good way to motivate yourself to paint and you can then enjoy a new model every time you play.

I don't know if this is just me, but I really hate playing against very badly painted armies and would actually rather play against unpainted miniatures. Its not like I am an awesome miniature painter or anything, and its probably very arrogant of me, but it really just cheese grates my face when someone has just slopped paint onto a model.

I've never been able to field a fully painted (decent) army in more than a 500 point game. I'm determined to get my whole Dark Eldar Force painted before I allow myself to get another army though, it will take a LONG time.

I don't care about what my opponent uses though, I have a hard enough time getting a game in at the moment without being picky about paintjobs.

lord_blackfang wrote:Tonight I will field a fully painted 40k army for the first time ever. Been in the hobby since '98

Welcome to real 40k. A badge is in the post ...

Rather have painted but I don't mind if people are building their first army. Sometimes it's helpful to know weather to paint the ravagers or the mandrakes first (incase you're noob enough not to realise that ravagers > mandrakes!)

I have no problems playing against or playing with un-painted models if its just a friendly game at a store.

For a tournament, however... Painted 100%.

Also, for friendly games... I have no problems with unpainted as long as you are slowly painting your models.

Copy and Paste from the previous dozen threads on this weekly subject:

I strive to 100% paint and base my armies with my own average hobby skills. I don't require this of my opponents but I do encourage them if I see them trying to do the same. If I have a choice between two equally pleasant people to play against at the FLGS, I'll choose the one with the painted army as a significant part of the pleasure for me is the eye candy of painted armies going at it in the grim dark future. If I going to a tourney and am paying to play, I choose to only attend events that either preferably require or, at a minimum, reward painted armies in the overall score. Painting is an important part of the hobby and experience but it isn't absolutely necessary to enjoy it.

While I like to see painted armies, I have no issue with people who do not have them. Honestly, I do not understand the elitist attitude of those who refuse to play against unpainted armies. its one thing to prefer painted armies, but to completely refuse a game due to the army not being painted is just foolish. There are many reasons to not have a painted army and to limit people for this is just elitist attitude that excludes people for no good reason.

I'm fine with it unless it is in a tournament.

Its ok to play with unpainted models as long as you are actively painting something. However, if it is your primary army and you dont do anything to get it painted, weeks, months, years drag on and your still fielding grey legion. Thats lame. Just get off your ass and buy a can of colored primer. spray, spend an hour picking out some details. You and your opponents will feel better about it.

My attitude is that if you place a figure in front of me that is not fully painted and based, you dishonour me and I shall kill you where you stand.

Painting isn't something done solely for the enjoyment of the owner, it's also a necessary for the opponent.

There is a WYSIWYG functional purpose to it, beyond the merit of the artistic virtue, to tell squads apart and identify separate units.

Painting is a core part of the hobby, just like army construction, the core rules, the use of miniatures and the use of dice, it can not be simply divorced as a separate optional piece.

From the other thread:

Augustus wrote:How many battle reports in white dwarf are done with unpainted figures? How many images of new GW product come with just images of the bare metal models? How many examples in the rulebook show bare metal or plastic figures? None.

ParatrooperSimon wrote:I'm pretty sure this has probaley come up on numerous ocations. But I'd thought I would ask

The question is in the title

The last time it was controversial, and a little heated. Some posters vehemently defending painting as optional, under a vague strawman guise of tolerance for several pages, and later exposed as defending their own viewpoint instead (because they liked to play in public unpainted and demand the same respect) when their gallery was filled with unpainted images.

Augustus wrote:Painting isn't something done solely for the enjoyment of the owner, it's also a necessary for the opponent.

There is a WYSIWYG functional purpose to it, beyond the merit of the artistic virtue, to tell squads apart and identify separate units.

Painting is a core part of the hobby, just like army construction, the core rules, the use of miniatures and the use of dice, it can not be simply divorced as a separate optional piece.

From the other thread:

Augustus wrote:How many battle reports in white dwarf are done with unpainted figures? How many images of new GW product come with just images of the bare metal models? How many examples in the rulebook show bare metal or plastic figures? None.

ParatrooperSimon wrote:I'm pretty sure this has probaley come up on numerous ocations. But I'd thought I would ask

The question is in the title

The last time it was controversial, and a little heated. Some posters vehemently defending painting as optional, under a vague strawman guise of tolerance for several pages, and later exposed as defending their own viewpoint instead (because they liked to play in public unpainted and demand the same respect) when their gallery was filled with unpainted images.

I don't mind unpainted armies. Go on, check my gallery.

I do, check mine.

I prefer to only play my own models which are 100% painted and based. One of the reasons that I have only ever played with my CSM, as they are the only army I have that is painted up to about 3000 points*

I would also prefer to play fully painted armies, but would not object to a game with unpainted stuff.





*Check out MY gallery!

I did, they are well done!

Augustus wrote:when their gallery was filled with unpainted images.

Sweet zombie Jesus!!!

Someone actually had unpainted miniatures in their gallery?

I sure hope that they got told.


How those people could possibly live with themselves, I have no idea. They must hate puppies.

Augustus wrote:I do, check mine.

Shoe brush!

I still remember.

It's simple for me really. I love to build, kitbash, and convert the models and then play the game with them. However, I usually can't remain sitting still long enough to paint units. I'm not a bad painter by any means, but I don't have the patience to paint multiples of the same guys over and over. My single models/monsters look pretty good if I may say so myself.

You don't like it, move on so I can find someone else to play with.

Tzeentchling9 wrote:It's simple for me really. I love to build, kitbash, and convert the models and then play the game with them. However, I usually can't remain sitting still long enough to paint units. I'm not a bad painter by any means, but I don't have the patience to paint multiples of the same guys over and over. My single models/monsters look pretty good if I may say so myself.

You don't like it, move on so I can find someone else to play with.

In all fairness though, the thing I dont understand is why or how someone could go through the effort to make wonderful kitbashes and conversions, but then not realise its full potential by giving it a paintjob? Im just curious.

Ronin wrote:

Tzeentchling9 wrote:It's simple for me really. I love to build, kitbash, and convert the models and then play the game with them. However, I usually can't remain sitting still long enough to paint units. I'm not a bad painter by any means, but I don't have the patience to paint multiples of the same guys over and over. My single models/monsters look pretty good if I may say so myself.

You don't like it, move on so I can find someone else to play with.

In all fairness though, the thing I dont understand is why or how someone could go through the effort to make wonderful kitbashes and conversions, but then not realise its full potential by giving it a paintjob? Im just curious.

He says he can't remain sitting still to paint multiples of the same guys. It's
repetitive and boring to him.

malfred wrote:

Ronin wrote:

Tzeentchling9 wrote:It's simple for me really. I love to build, kitbash, and convert the models and then play the game with them. However, I usually can't remain sitting still long enough to paint units. I'm not a bad painter by any means, but I don't have the patience to paint multiples of the same guys over and over. My single models/monsters look pretty good if I may say so myself.

You don't like it, move on so I can find someone else to play with.

In all fairness though, the thing I dont understand is why or how someone could go through the effort to make wonderful kitbashes and conversions, but then not realise its full potential by giving it a paintjob? Im just curious.

He says he can't remain sitting still to paint multiples of the same guys. It's
repetitive and boring to him.

Yeah but, but, but, they're not the same guys if he kitbashed and converted them all, right? He sat there, sitting still, doing the converting and the kitbashing, right? Why not just persevere and go the extra length to paint them all?
Sorry, I only just wish to properly understand.

I only play with painted models but to me fielding a fully painted army is awesome. I love seeing all my troops lined up ready for battle. I love the modeling side of this hobby so having fully painted armies are a must for me.

I'll play somebody who doesn't have a painted army no problems all I ask is it's fully wysiwyg. I ask for wysiwyg just because I need to know what unit it what and equipped with what.

I find sparse boards and uninspired terrain far more annoying then unpainted models.

What is even more annoying are the guys that demand painetd models but play on barren, boring tables with horrible mismatched terrain...

Ronin wrote:

malfred wrote:

Ronin wrote:

Tzeentchling9 wrote:It's simple for me really. I love to build, kitbash, and convert the models and then play the game with them. However, I usually can't remain sitting still long enough to paint units. I'm not a bad painter by any means, but I don't have the patience to paint multiples of the same guys over and over. My single models/monsters look pretty good if I may say so myself.

You don't like it, move on so I can find someone else to play with.

In all fairness though, the thing I dont understand is why or how someone could go through the effort to make wonderful kitbashes and conversions, but then not realise its full potential by giving it a paintjob? Im just curious.

He says he can't remain sitting still to paint multiples of the same guys. It's
repetitive and boring to him.

Yeah but, but, but, they're not the same guys if he kitbashed and converted them all, right? He sat there, sitting still, doing the converting and the kitbashing, right? Why not just persevere and go the extra length to paint them all?
Sorry, I only just wish to properly understand.

I get the same feeling, actually. One thing I prefer about painting Warmachine
over 40k is that I DON'T have to paint 40 of the same models if I don't want
to. There is variety between many of the models.

Converting and painting seem to be separate skillsets as well. Some enjoy
one without enjoying the other. I love painting, but hate converting. I imagine
he's the other way around.

biccat wrote:

Augustus wrote:when their gallery was filled with unpainted images.

Sweet zombie Jesus!!!

Someone actually had unpainted miniatures in their gallery?

I sure hope that they got told.

Spoiler:

How those people could possibly live with themselves, I have no idea. They must hate puppies.

I was the one with the unpainted minis in my gallery. How dare I post pictures of unpainted figures that I was selling in the swap shop at the time. Augustus really got me on that one. You should go back and read the last thread. He made a real fool of himself when he pulled his "ah-ha" moment on me over those unpainted eldar figures.

Tzeentchling9 wrote:It's simple for me really. I love to build, kitbash, and convert the models and then play the game with them. However, I usually can't remain sitting still long enough to paint units. I'm not a bad painter by any means, but I don't have the patience to paint multiples of the same guys over and over. My single models/monsters look pretty good if I may say so myself.

You don't like it, move on so I can find someone else to play with.

I actually find this last bit refreshing. It should be stated more often that there are enough types of gamers to go around. Folks don't need to sacrifice their preferred game experience and it shouldn't be a crime to say "I prefer to only play against painted armies" or "if you don't like my unpainted armies move along".

CT GAMER wrote:I find sparse boards and uninspired terrain far more annoying then unpainted models.

What is even more annoying are the guys that demand painetd models but play on barren, boring tables with horrible mismatched terrain...

I find them equally abhorrent. Whenever possible I make provision for a good thematic battlefield and plenty of terrain.
Since we're all swapping pics now, here's the kind of battles I enjoy. Painted minis, Great terrain and (most importantly) a great time with good friends. Winning is nice too, but it's very low priority.

AAR and more pics here:
http://rpgdiehard.blogspot.com/2011/08/wastelands-meltdown-post-apocalyptic.html

Im sorry, I just cant agree with some on here. I HATE unpainted armies. I dont mind half painted armies being played with while the person is in the process of painting it, or if they purchased a new unit and are trying it out with their painted army.... but our HOBBY is just that...a HOBBY, consisting of modeling, painting and gaming. All 3 make up the HOBBY. If you want to play a GAME, go play checkers. In addition I like when tournaments require painting for two reasons. One it adds something to the game to see two painted armies battling it out. The other is that it prevents the power gamers and net listers from simply going out and buying the latest greatest auto-win list to show up with. I peronsally will not play against people who just outright refuse to paint their models. And NO, spray painting an entire army including vehicles with metallic gold auto paint is not painting them....even if you are trying to justify it by calling them the "Bling Marine" chapter (yes thats a true story)

I have a simple principle.

I do not expect you to paint all your models, because life happens. I'm a full time college student, with a full time job. Your plastic is your plastic. I think it's foolish for people to deny you a game simply because you lack the time, motivation, or desire to paint, as it makes you seem like an uncouth "elitist".

We all pay money, invest our time, and make the effort to go to game stores; I myself drive at least an hour and a half to catch games.

Unpainted models are lame. Acceptable in most cases, but always lame.

I fit into that "I paint halfway decently, but still manage not to do it" crowd. I love painted miniatures, and I actually enjoy the act of painting them. But for some reason when I sit down to paint, it doesn't really happen unless something in particular inspires me. Speaking of inspiration, I'm sitting here staring at this Wrong Eye miniature as if it will make the primer dry faster...

I prefer to play with fully painted models.

Unfortunately my only mostly painted army has just been sold, so i've got some SERIOUS painting to do

My orks have about 1% painted ( I have a LOT of orks).

My Daemons are newly acquired and mostly unpainted

My Dark Eldar are entirely unpainted, as I'm still trying to decide on a scheme. Once i do they'll be getting painted


As to the other guy's models. Unpainted is ok. I'll not sneer at you, as I'd be a hypocrite if i did.

I'd rather unpainted to badly painted (i've seen some really bad ones) but a well painted army across the table is a rare and wonderful thing that makes me feel priviledged to play against it.

malfred wrote:

Ronin wrote:

malfred wrote:

Ronin wrote:

Tzeentchling9 wrote:It's simple for me really. I love to build, kitbash, and convert the models and then play the game with them. However, I usually can't remain sitting still long enough to paint units. I'm not a bad painter by any means, but I don't have the patience to paint multiples of the same guys over and over. My single models/monsters look pretty good if I may say so myself.

You don't like it, move on so I can find someone else to play with.

In all fairness though, the thing I dont understand is why or how someone could go through the effort to make wonderful kitbashes and conversions, but then not realise its full potential by giving it a paintjob? Im just curious.

He says he can't remain sitting still to paint multiples of the same guys. It's
repetitive and boring to him.

Yeah but, but, but, they're not the same guys if he kitbashed and converted them all, right? He sat there, sitting still, doing the converting and the kitbashing, right? Why not just persevere and go the extra length to paint them all?
Sorry, I only just wish to properly understand.

I get the same feeling, actually. One thing I prefer about painting Warmachine
over 40k is that I DON'T have to paint 40 of the same models if I don't want
to. There is variety between many of the models.

Converting and painting seem to be separate skillsets as well. Some enjoy
one without enjoying the other. I love painting, but hate converting. I imagine
he's the other way around.

The kitbashed and converted stuff is the stuff that usually ends up painted. I like cutting up pieces and using other bits from the norm. Done right, they don't need to be painted to look cool. I find it hard to concentrate on a model when in the back of my mind I know there are 100+ of the same one waiting(Looking at you, WotR Goblins!). I'm trying to get them painted though.

The point is, I love certain aspects of the hobby, but painting is not one of them. Why should I be shunned for that? Or, better yet, why am I only accepted if I quickly slap a terrible paint job on them instead of going about it in my own way?

EDIT: Ugh I'm apparently to tired to type what my brain is trying to think.

quickfuze wrote:And NO, spray painting an entire army including vehicles with metallic gold auto paint is not painting them....even if you are trying to justify it by calling them the "Bling Marine" chapter (yes thats a true story)

I see some conflicting opinions in here. One guy says "Do whatever it takes to field a fully-painted army, even if you have to spraypaint them and pick out details." And then you come along and loudly proclaim that no, even that isn't good enough, they have to look amazing.

So which is it?

Las wrote:Unpainted models are lame. Acceptable in most cases, but always lame.

This whole hobby in general is widely considered to be pretty lame, so I personally think it's a waste of time arguing amongst ourselves about who is "lamer".

I think an oppenent should, if possible, put a painted army on the table. If, for example, he has just bought the army, its not a problem, as some people simply do not have the time to paint there army. I agree with the above comment. Some people should really lose the elitist attitude, it ruins the fun of gaming.

Tzeentchling9 wrote:The kitbashed and converted stuff is the stuff that usually ends up painted. I like cutting up pieces and using other bits from the norm. Done right, they don't need to be painted to look cool. I find it hard to concentrate on a model when in the back of my mind I know there are 100+ of the same one waiting(Looking at you, WotR Goblins!). I'm trying to get them painted though.

The point is, I love certain aspects of the hobby, but painting is not one of them. Why should I be shunned for that? Or, better yet, why am I only accepted if I quickly slap a terrible paint job on them instead of going about it in my own way?

EDIT: Ugh I'm apparently to tired to type what my brain is trying to think.

Im not shunning or admonishing anyone if they prefer certain parts of the hobby to others, even if its just converting over painting. I was just simply asking for the sake of understanding, because I do not understand the mentality of going through awesome conversion work, and then just let it stay as a metal/plastic/resin/converted bit figure, when it seems to me that giving it a paintjob would make it more awesome (and also bring out the details of your conversion work).

I ask only cause Im more of a painter, but I do like the occasional kitbash/conversion. But for me, that conversion work has no meaning unless I paint it as well. But like I said, not shunning anyone here, as Ill be happy to play a game. Just that if you plonk down a figure that's had some cool conversion work done, and you dont intend to paint it, it will make me want to paint the thing for you.

Norn King wrote:I think an oppenent should, if possible, put a painted army on the table. If, for example, he has just bought the army, its not a problem, as some people simply do not have the time to paint there army. I agree with the above comment. Some people should really lose the elitist attitude, it ruins the fun of gaming.

Being unable to distinguish which squad is which because they all look the same and have no markings and not being able to distinguish wargear quickly and easily because all I see is unclear greys instead of painted models with distinguished weapons ruins the fun of gaming to me.

Burdening your opponent with things that make the game harder to play is gamesmanship. In casual play, ask permission... Keep your unfair burdens out of competitive play. Appearance issues directly harm 'ard boys ability to be considered a valid fair competition and many people have reported issues where the game broke down due to unpainted models.

Don't pretend it is never a burden and has zero impact as that is untrue. At least you can do is give your opponent a chance to opt out of a legitimately degraded gaming experience which they may not enjoy without taking it personally or calling them names. Just find some like-minded gamers who don't mind the impact and you will be fine.

If it ain't painted I don't use it.

Good for you

nkelsch wrote:

Norn King wrote:I think an oppenent should, if possible, put a painted army on the table. If, for example, he has just bought the army, its not a problem, as some people simply do not have the time to paint there army. I agree with the above comment. Some people should really lose the elitist attitude, it ruins the fun of gaming.

Being unable to distinguish which squad is which because they all look the same and have no markings and not being able to distinguish wargear quickly and easily because all I see is unclear greys instead of painted models with distinguished weapons ruins the fun of gaming to me.

Burdening your opponent with things that make the game harder to play is gamesmanship. In casual play, ask permission... Keep your unfair burdens out of competitive play. Appearance issues directly harm 'ard boys ability to be considered a valid fair competition and many people have reported issues where the game broke down due to unpainted models.

Don't pretend it is never a burden and has zero impact as that is untrue. At least you can do is give your opponent a chance to opt out of a legitimately degraded gaming experience which they may not enjoy without taking it personally or calling them names. Just find some like-minded gamers who don't mind the impact and you will be fine.

Im sorry how is it hard to distinguish a plasma gun from a boltgun painted or unpainted? or lascannon from multimelta its really not hard... and to be fair you just shoot the unit and then he allocates his wounds so its the owners problem.

As with most people i prefer seeing a painted army on the field but i will never refuse a game against someone who wishes to field unpainted armies or proxies as i prefer the gaming side to the hobby and take every chance i have in my spare time to play games.

I'm fine with it. I'm a slow painter myself, and I can always assume the other player just bought an item and assembled it minutes before hand.

Las wrote:Unpainted models are lame. Acceptable in most cases, but always lame.

Agreed.

Models play the same painted or not. I like playing. Why does this thread keep getting made? Feels like I see it every couple of months. Getting kinda silly I think.

I don't really care, as long as I can tell what's what. That said, seeing fully painted armies on the table is impressive and there is a point of pride to put down a fully decently painted army not to mention when other gamers compliment your paint scheme and painting. Totally worth the hours of painting.

sometimes i really enjoy painting, but for the most part, i find it a chore. i have some facility at it and can usually make the model look how i want it to.

the only reason i do it is because i want to have a great looking army across from my opponent. it's just a question of personal pride and principle to try and field a good-looking army.

for the most part, i'm pretty easy going and won't bust balls over unpainted models, but here's the thing:

i work a 40-60 hour week plus family time, and yet I can find time to paint and base my bersekers or work on my wraithlords. this tells me that people who can't get their models to a rudimentary tabletop are either lazy or just don't care enough to make painting them a priority, which is too bad.

i understand the argument that people can enjoy the hobby how they want, but if i put a decently painted force that I took the time to work on as best as I can across the table from an unemployed dude with a half-assembled field of grey, it's kind of a slap in the face, and makes me feel like i wasted my time.

by way of imperfect analogy: if you have an idea that dinner should be well-prepared and enjoyed with friends and good conversation, and you invite someone over to a soiree where you've painstakingly made a nice menu, selected some great wines and music and guests who you think will get along, and he shows up with a big mac and a mickey of smirnoff and asks if you have some coke to chase it down with...

Playing with unpainted models is fine to me, as long as they are going to be painted at some time in the foreseeable future. I understand if someone wants to take their time painting models nicely, instead of making it a rushjob just to play the game.

I've been slowly working on getting my 2000 pt Tyranid army painted so that when i go to play with my friends the games can look better when we take pictures of the dramatic moments. All in all though I can't see a reason for someone to not play, simply because his army is not painted yet. If I had just dropped $750 on a shiny new Orc horde I think I'd like to get to play it, rather than waiting until I'd finished painting it (seeing as it's taking FOREVER for me to finish these gaunts). And if an opponent ever told me he wouldn't play me due to unpainted models, I'd call him something entertaining (at least to those who heard me).

Las wrote:Unpainted models are lame. Acceptable in most cases, but always lame.

I agree with you.

Amphsix wrote:Playing with unpainted models is fine to me, as long as they are going to be painted at some time in the foreseeable future. I understand if someone wants to take their time painting models nicely, instead of making it a rushjob just to play the game.

Basically this. As long as you are painting and making progress, even slow progress, then it's fine. Not everyone has the time, patience or ability to paint a large force quickly. But if you're not bothering at all, then you're in the wrong hobby.

I think everyone would agree that they would rather play with fully painted armies. However, there is also the time constraints of the real world to consider. I personally have c3000pts worth of minatures lying around mostly unpainted. I intend to paint them, but as a full time student I just don't really have the time to paint them as quickly as I would like, as when not in uni I tend to be writing essays or somesuch. As such, I usually have to field some models unpainted to make it a viable game. If I was going to play someone and they refused because I had unpainted modelsm, I would find them to be eliteiste, and I would probably think they were a bit of a prat, for forgetting that it is only a game and that I actually have a life outside of the hobby, which tends to be more high priority.

I agree that at tournaments demanding a fully painted army is a good thing, but in a friendly match? No, jog on.

I don't mind playing an Unpainted army at all. I pay to get my stuff painted now, because I never have time to do so with my work, and homelife, but I enjoy the game. I would never have an issue playing an unpainted force, tournament or otherwise.

I dont reallly mind unpainted models, but terrain irks me. It has to be of this standard: [img] http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=127140067374941&set=a.127138264041788.33526.100711616684453&type=3&theater

Gandair wrote:Models play the same painted or not. I like playing. Why does this thread keep getting made? Feels like I see it every couple of months. Getting kinda silly I think.

This has been proven to be false. If I have two units of unpainted AoBR boys next to each other, it is impossible to know where one unit ends and another begins. This happened for multiple people at 'ard boyz and the game broke down, especially in cc. People lost where they shouldn't have and games were influenced directly due to unpainted models with no squad markings or distinguishing marks.

And it is much harder to visually distinguish weapons when the model is all one color with no distinguishing accents. Slows down the game and is a burden. In timed games, burdens are unfair and unreasonable. This game has a large visual component in choosing tactics and making decisions. Having one person have to work harder to constantly decipher grey models from 3-4feet away to make decisions is a burden. Forcing burdens on opponents is poor sportsmanship.

I find it hard to believe it's that much easier to distinguish between squads when they're painted, at least when talking about Ork boys like in your example, because they all look the same and kinda bleed together whether they're painted or not. And Orks aren't really one of those armies where squad markings really make a whole lot of sense, in all the studio pictures of Ork models they don't really have any of that.

What do you expect from Tyranid players for that matter? Painting little armbands on them, or little spots of color on their heads? Yeah, that'll look good.

Oh, and you realize that it's very easy to solve your problem by just painting the base rings, right? One squad of Orks has red rings, another squad has blue rings, etc. For special weapons you could just paint the name of the weapon on the base to help single him out. So it's not really "impossible" or "proven".

Sidstyler wrote:

Oh, and you realize that it's very easy to solve your problem by just painting the base rings, right? One squad of Orks has red rings, another squad has blue rings, etc. For special weapons you could just paint the name of the weapon on the base to help single him out. So it's not really "impossible" or "proven".

And yet they still don't do it so the game breaks down... in tourneys no less!

The issue is making the game easier for your opponent to play and clearly distinguishing things requires a person to 'care about his opponent's experience' and 'willing to make an effort with his own models'.

When someone is unwilling to do either, it shows his selfish attitude which sets the tone for the game. If all people who played with unpainted models clearly considered the impacts and then took steps to mitigate them, there wouldn't be an issue... but they don't and it is. They are too busy screaming 'My hobby, my rights!' than being objective and saying 'gee you might be right about how you can't see the differences in my squads and it is hard to distinguish parts of a model when they all bluur together as a grey silhouette under fluorescent lights... maybe I will adopt a base-ring system to make sure I am not gaining an unfair advantage by using unpainted models, especially in this 'ard boyz tourney. Personally, I have never met a person who even attempted to distinguish models and units with unpainted.. I also have never met a person with a 100% WYSIWYG unpainted army either because the two usually go hand-in-hand which makes playing the game even harder.

People cry about time and their lives but they could put base rings on all their models in about 20 minutes and make people's lives easier, but they don't because they simply don't care about anyone but themselves.

Which is why I recommend finding people who want similar things and playing with them. If you want to be accepted everywhere by everyone... painted and WYSIWYG is how you do it.

Kai wrote:... If I had just dropped $750 on a shiny new Orc horde I think I'd like to get to play it, rather than waiting until I'd finished painting it

Norn King wrote: If, for example, he has just bought the army.

I think that these kind of statements are representative of a large part of the "problem" (if you agree it is one) of unpainted armies. For many folks, buying an army all at once is a surefire way to become overwhelmed by the amount of painting you have to do. Not to mention the time spent assembling all the figs which -if one unit was bought at a time- could otherwise have been spent painting a few units.

Whether it's the "desire to acquire", the sheer number of figures required for a "standard" game, or just a disinterest by most folks in playing smaller games I don't know. What I do know is theres a lot of folks at my FLGS with huge armies that are all, or mostly, grey and it is flatly uninspiring.

"flatly uninspiring"

This sums it up better than anyone else has.

Gandair wrote:Models play the same painted or not. I like playing. Why does this thread keep getting made?

It is the never ending quest to be the coolest nerd...

As much as I'm into painting and conversion over all else in the hobby, I just haven't had the time to paint as much as I used to.

I really have no problem with unpainted stuff. I'd prefer it if things were painted, but I understand that not everyone is able to dedicate enough time to get everything done.

nkelsch wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:

Oh, and you realize that it's very easy to solve your problem by just painting the base rings, right? One squad of Orks has red rings, another squad has blue rings, etc. For special weapons you could just paint the name of the weapon on the base to help single him out. So it's not really "impossible" or "proven".

And yet they still don't do it so the game breaks down... in tourneys no less!

The issue is making the game easier for your opponent to play and clearly distinguishing things requires a person to 'care about his opponent's experience' and 'willing to make an effort with his own models'.

When someone is unwilling to do either, it shows his selfish attitude which sets the tone for the game. If all people who played with unpainted models clearly considered the impacts and then took steps to mitigate them, there wouldn't be an issue... but they don't and it is. They are too busy screaming 'My hobby, my rights!' than being objective and saying 'gee you might be right about how you can't see the differences in my squads and it is hard to distinguish parts of a model when they all bluur together as a grey silhouette under fluorescent lights... maybe I will adopt a base-ring system to make sure I am not gaining an unfair advantage by using unpainted models, especially in this 'ard boyz tourney. Personally, I have never met a person who even attempted to distinguish models and units with unpainted.. I also have never met a person with a 100% WYSIWYG unpainted army either because the two usually go hand-in-hand which makes playing the game even harder.

People cry about time and their lives but they could put base rings on all their models in about 20 minutes and make people's lives easier, but they don't because they simply don't care about anyone but themselves.

Which is why I recommend finding people who want similar things and playing with them. If you want to be accepted everywhere by everyone... painted and WYSIWYG is how you do it.

I would not accept you. You have some ordasity to say your better at this hobby because you have paint figures (No, you did not say that directly but thats what all the BS meant) I know lots of people with paint armys and they would never have an attititude like you sir... they love playing the game, and if they play agianst an unpainted army. Makes no differeance to them. I could not a agree more about WYSIWYG. But turning people away for a friendly game because they have un-painted models is and elitest and fething stupid attitude. You know what, mabye you should just go and collect stamps. Because you'll be better off doing that.

I sersiouly cant deal with clowns like him

can't spell either, but that's ok

I can understand where you're coming from though.

I would consider it a bit elitist to be told to feth off, and come back when everything is painted.

Base-ringing WOULD be very helpful though, for distinguishing squads. It's not an issue with my waagh, as each boyz mob is a different clan, and therefore a different colour (and are also distinguishable by hat... The unpainted ones have a dab of the clan colour on them until i can get them finished) but with a horde of gaunts from several units, backed by tervigons... I've seen more shenanigans played by merging units, and somehow having one at full strength and the other get whittled down, so baseringing is a bright move.

nkelsch wrote:This has been proven to be false. If I have two units of unpainted AoBR boys next to each other, it is impossible to know where one unit ends and another begins

Is it easier or more difficult to distinguish two groups of identically or nearly-identically painted AoBR boyz? Or a bunch of dissimilar models that don't have any similar markings?

I paint my Thousand Sons in the same pattern because that's how they appear in the fluff. I make the effort to keep them separate from one another during the game. I assume people playing with unpainted models are capable of doing the same.

I don't really care one way or the other.

What I do care about is some people making themselves masters over what is the more important part of our hobby, and monopolizing "the right way" of participating in it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

malfred wrote:

Augustus wrote:Painting isn't something done solely for the enjoyment of the owner, it's also a necessary for the opponent.

There is a WYSIWYG functional purpose to it, beyond the merit of the artistic virtue, to tell squads apart and identify separate units.

Painting is a core part of the hobby, just like army construction, the core rules, the use of miniatures and the use of dice, it can not be simply divorced as a separate optional piece.

From the other thread:

Augustus wrote:How many battle reports in white dwarf are done with unpainted figures? How many images of new GW product come with just images of the bare metal models? How many examples in the rulebook show bare metal or plastic figures? None.

ParatrooperSimon wrote:I'm pretty sure this has probaley come up on numerous ocations. But I'd thought I would ask

The question is in the title

The last time it was controversial, and a little heated. Some posters vehemently defending painting as optional, under a vague strawman guise of tolerance for several pages, and later exposed as defending their own viewpoint instead (because they liked to play in public unpainted and demand the same respect) when their gallery was filled with unpainted images.

I don't mind unpainted armies. Go on, check my gallery.

Me neither, check mine...and the Pbase too.

Ascalam wrote:can't spell either, but that's ok

I can understand where you're coming from though.

I would consider it a bit elitist to be told to feth off, and come back when everything is painted.

Base-ringing WOULD be very helpful though, for distinguishing squads. It's not an issue with my waagh, as each boyz mob is a different clan, and therefore a different colour (and are also distinguishable by hat... The unpainted ones have a dab of the clan colour on them until i can get them finished) but with a horde of gaunts from several units, backed by tervigons... I've seen more shenanigans played by merging units, and somehow having one at full strength and the other get whittled down, so baseringing is a bright move.

well to be fair, I was typing fast, but spelling armies with armys is sort of bad... lol. Also, do not use personal attacks one me, saying my spelling is bad is hardly on topic. So if you have nothing to say about wargaming, just go away and read a book or something

I dont mind it at all. It usually depends on whether or not they are pieces with some sort of conversion though, because that means they've invested they're not just lazy. Personally, most of my army is painted or at least primed to the same color as my army so its less noticeable.

But if you invest in your models, I have no issue

ParatrooperSimon wrote:

Ascalam wrote:can't spell either, but that's ok

I can understand where you're coming from though.

I would consider it a bit elitist to be told to feth off, and come back when everything is painted.

Base-ringing WOULD be very helpful though, for distinguishing squads. It's not an issue with my waagh, as each boyz mob is a different clan, and therefore a different colour (and are also distinguishable by hat... The unpainted ones have a dab of the clan colour on them until i can get them finished) but with a horde of gaunts from several units, backed by tervigons... I've seen more shenanigans played by merging units, and somehow having one at full strength and the other get whittled down, so baseringing is a bright move.

well to be fair, I was typing fast, but spelling armies with armys is sort of bad... lol. Also, do not use personal attacks one me, saying my spelling is bad is hardly on topic. So if you have nothing to say about wargaming, just go away and read a book or something

Over-reacting much? If you're going to post on a forum you're expected to maintain a certain amount of readability and civility. It's in the forum rules.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/354859.page

For future reference the orkmoticon is usually used to show that the person is making a joke, or otherwise being frivilous. If i was making a personal attack on you, believe me you would know it. Asking you (however non-seriously) to spell straight is not a personal attack, if your posts are hard to follow or near unintelligable.

Telling other people to in effect 'feth off and go do something else' is a deal less civil than gently hinting that they might want to slow down a little and check their spelling, btw It's also the kind of behaviour you were decrying from the elitists that told you to 'feth off and do something else (paint)'...

you like apple, i like oranges. dont kill each other over it.

Some people paint for fun
some people play for fun

you have a painted army you can be proud of, we are very happy for you, but dont go over board by being a dick about it.
because we know, some do turn obnoxious with elitism.

also, warhammer forum... try to not fight over spelling mistakes.

ParatrooperSimon wrote:I'm pretty sure this has probaley come up on numerous ocations. But I'd thought I would ask

The question is in the title

I love it.

Would rather play against a good opponent with an unpainted army then a poor one with a well painted one.

Its the person across the table that makes it a great game. Not whether the army is painted or not.

With you on that

A good opponent is worth a little grey in my vision

Tlo1048 wrote:I dont mind it at all. It usually depends on whether or not they are pieces with some sort of conversion though, because that means they've invested they're not just lazy. Personally, most of my army is painted or at least primed to the same color as my army so its less noticeable.

But if you invest in your models, I have no issue

Some people simply do not care for painting and/or converting. Playing with an unpainted/unconverted army does not equate to laziness, it probably just means that somebody has a different idea about how to enjoy playing 40k than you do. The expense of purchasing models already shows a rather large investment into the game.

augustus5 wrote:

Tlo1048 wrote:I dont mind it at all. It usually depends on whether or not they are pieces with some sort of conversion though, because that means they've invested they're not just lazy. Personally, most of my army is painted or at least primed to the same color as my army so its less noticeable.

But if you invest in your models, I have no issue

Some people simply do not care for painting and/or converting. Playing with an unpainted/unconverted army does not equate to laziness, it probably just means that somebody has a different idea about how to enjoy playing 40k than you do. The expense of purchasing models already shows a rather large investment into the game.

Viable

Ronin wrote:

Im not shunning or admonishing anyone if they prefer certain parts of the hobby to others, even if its just converting over painting. I was just simply asking for the sake of understanding, because I do not understand the mentality of going through awesome conversion work, and then just let it stay as a metal/plastic/resin/converted bit figure, when it seems to me that giving it a paintjob would make it more awesome (and also bring out the details of your conversion work).

I have an awesomely converted warboss on a bike, converted from 4-5 different kits that looks awesome. Unpainted. I had an idea and wanted to run with it, so it got built. Painting isnt in the equation. Its all about the convertion, not about the paint job. I could care less if it ever gets painted.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nkelsch wrote: If I have two units of unpainted AoBR boys next to each other, it is impossible to know where one unit ends and another begins. This happened for multiple people at 'ard boyz and the game broke down, especially in cc. People lost where they shouldn't have and games were influenced directly due to unpainted models with no squad markings or distinguishing marks.

That also happens with painted ork boyz squads. And even more so with tyranid genestealer and termigaunt squads, they dont have squad markings.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ascalam wrote:With you on that

A good opponent is worth a little grey in my vision

There are people in this thread, with painted armies, I wouldnt play against with my own painted armies. Given their attitude, I dont think I'd get a good game.

Ronin wrote:

Tzeentchling9 wrote:The kitbashed and converted stuff is the stuff that usually ends up painted. I like cutting up pieces and using other bits from the norm. Done right, they don't need to be painted to look cool. I find it hard to concentrate on a model when in the back of my mind I know there are 100+ of the same one waiting(Looking at you, WotR Goblins!). I'm trying to get them painted though.

The point is, I love certain aspects of the hobby, but painting is not one of them. Why should I be shunned for that? Or, better yet, why am I only accepted if I quickly slap a terrible paint job on them instead of going about it in my own way?

EDIT: Ugh I'm apparently to tired to type what my brain is trying to think.

Im not shunning or admonishing anyone if they prefer certain parts of the hobby to others, even if its just converting over painting. I was just simply asking for the sake of understanding, because I do not understand the mentality of going through awesome conversion work, and then just let it stay as a metal/plastic/resin/converted bit figure, when it seems to me that giving it a paintjob would make it more awesome (and also bring out the details of your conversion work).

I ask only cause Im more of a painter, but I do like the occasional kitbash/conversion. But for me, that conversion work has no meaning unless I paint it as well. But like I said, not shunning anyone here, as Ill be happy to play a game. Just that if you plonk down a figure that's had some cool conversion work done, and you dont intend to paint it, it will make me want to paint the thing for you.

Sorry, my question(s) at the end were more directed at the thread in general and particularly those who said that they would(do) not play against painted armies.

Personally, I will never do it.
I just don't like fielding unpainted grey plastic.

I come from historicals, where it is expected that you will have a painted army - as it is often important for differentiation of different Roman legions, or other troops where a common uniform style covered several time periods.

The game will be more enjoyable for me if both armies are painted, but I'm not going to insist that YOU paint your horde of grey plastic.

Hmmmm.....
I would like to say I abhor people who field armys that aren't painted, but unfortanatley I'm one of them.
So, I guess I don't mind.

With my old Ork army, about 50% was painted. With my new CSM army, i refuse to use any unpainted models. I prefer fighting against painted armies, since unpainted models signals that the owner doesn't really care so much about his models. Paint your stuff!

The idea of someone not caring about their models is just the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I remember when I droped my baby (Metal Ghaz) on the pavement (nothing broke off and no real damages...lucky) I felt a little sick to my stomach, and I had to sit down for a couple minutes....

my models mean the world to me, and only like 25% are painted.

@paratroopersimon: Well I am not sure if everyone feels -that- strongly about their models, but I do have to say, you already pay a fortune for the models, so I don't see why anyone really wouldn't care.

It's nice to see fully painted armies on fully painted terrain, but when it comes down to it, I won't judge you if you've got unpainted stuff. I personally love painting, but I know it's not for everyone.

If we're going to judge folks on the basis of % of army painted, where do we stop? Do we judge folks who have a "painted" army, but isn't painted up to our standards? I know that several folks at my FLGS don't exactly have GD winning armies; there are some armies that are, quite frankly, eyesores; though I consider my stuff tabletop standard, I pale in comparison to the better painters at my FLGS (one of whom *is* a GD winner, and another is a former 'eavy Metal painter). Should we refuse a game with them?

I wouldnt mind as much getting rundown by a nicely painted unit..rather than those cold, dull, characterless primed or plastic models. Oh you gamers with your maths, paint and enjoy the spectacle, make it a story instead of averages

I still play and while my mate cant afford eagles yet, its square bases with a biro marking which way its facing

I love fielding my orcs (makes the battle,fluff & story), but i just face plastic.

He does drybrush terrain to his credit and one day ill paint his whole army.

I am in the reserves, ROTC, engaged, a 20 credit hour college student(soon to be 27 next semester), painting is simply something I don't have time for. I only have 2 painted armies and only one that is above table top standard. I will play against just about anyone as long as they are good spirited and at least have assembled models, but im not too stiff if they proxy a unit as long as one model represents them. TBH I have never been much of a painter, not that great at it. I do like conversions though.

Plus I am worried about ruining some of my models with a bad paint job. Its discouraging to spend a lot of time on a model and then look at it and think... that sucks

thechosen1 wrote:

If we're going to judge folks on the basis of % of army painted, where do we stop?

3 colors and based. The standard that has been in place by GW and major indy events for decades. Seems to work fine.

Guys.

Chicks are more impressed by painted armies than unpainted armies.

I play Warhammer 40K to pick up chicks.

That is all I have to say on this topic.

kronk wrote:Guys.

Chicks are more impressed by painted armies than unpainted armies.

I play Warhammer 40K to pick up chicks.

That is all I have to say on this topic.

QFT, especially pink space marines.

I MUUUCH prefer playing with painted models... it does make the game a better experience. That being said, most of my Eldar army is just primed black. I have paint on... three or four units. I love building the models and playing the game, but I'm just not a huge fan of painting. If I had the money, I would probably send them off to be commissioned.

So, while I certainly prefer painted models, I can't bash anyone for not having painted =P

My buddy was playing with unpainted Tau. I was playing a fully painted Black Templar Army.

I now have 2 wives and he has none.

True story.

Amphsix wrote:@paratroopersimon: Well I am not sure if everyone feels -that- strongly about their models, but I do have to say, you already pay a fortune for the models, so I don't see why anyone really wouldn't care.

I've heard various incarnations of this argument "40k costs so much, at least they bought the models even if they're not painted" and it always rings false to me. I couldn't care less how much someone does or doesn't spend on their models. The amount of money spent is not, IMHO, a reason to respect someones army more or less.

I judge the appearance of an army by it's appearance. Painted armies look impressive, unpainted figs look unimpressive. Money doesn't come into that assessment.

Tomb King wrote: Its discouraging to spend a lot of time on a model and then look at it and think... that sucks

It's even more discouraging to look across the table at a grey army and think "that sucks".

Seriously though, it's clear from your posting that you're a busy dude, but the relatively common argument that unpainted is better than a poor paintjob almost never holds water.

After viewing the amazingly painted minis at places like Dakka, CMoN and WD, Folks forget that an army is usually viewed by your opponent from 3-4 feet away on a tabletop. Even a basic sloppy block paintjob (with no shading, highlighting or washing) when paired with a simple flocked base and in the company of many other figures looks far better from the opposite side of the table than a grey horde. 4 colors and some flock or sand is a painting standard that is in reach for almost anyone.

nkelsch wrote:3 colors and based. The standard that has been in place by GW and major indy events for decades. Seems to work fine.

Eilif wrote:4 colors and some flock or sand is a painting standard that is in reach for almost anyone.

Do I hear 5 colors!? 5!?

Seriously though, I don't care what your army looks like. You can have the prettiest army in the world, and while I will ooh and aah for a few minutes before the game starts, once it does I'm not seeing your models as anything but stat lines in my brain. That HE spear dude is still S3/T3/blah/blah/blah whether he's painted to a Golden Daemon standard, painted nicely, painted table top, painted but not based, not painted or even just a torso and legs.

More important than anything else, to me, is having a good opponent who is there for a good time regardless. That makes or breaks a game more than anything else.

kronk wrote:My buddy was playing with unpainted Tau. I was playing a fully painted Black Templar Army.

I now have 2 wives and he has none.

True story.

I have painted minis.

Will you marry me?

Exactly.

Babe magnet.

Eilif wrote:

Tomb King wrote: Its discouraging to spend a lot of time on a model and then look at it and think... that sucks

It's even more discouraging to look across the table at a grey army and think "that sucks".

That depends is Draigo destroyer of worlds involved? lol

streamdragon wrote:Seriously though, I don't care what your army looks like. You can have the prettiest army in the world, and while I will ooh and aah for a few minutes before the game starts, once it does I'm not seeing your models as anything but stat lines in my brain....

More important than anything else, to me, is having a good opponent who is there for a good time regardless. That makes or breaks a game more than anything else.

A perfectly valid pair of opinions. We both would agree on the high importance of a good opponent, but whereas you highly value the gameplay itself, my value in that place is the spectacle. If anything the stat-line is of secondary importance to me.

I just have to point out that there is a reocurring statement from some in this thread. They say they shouldnt be shunned from the game because they dont have time to paint. I will stick by my guns here, this is not a game....its a hobby. If you want to play a game, Call of Duty 3 is coming out I heard, or there is this game called World of Warcraft that people seem to devote an almost cult like following to... If you want to be part of THIS community then at least make an effort to make the game enjoyable for all involved. A painted army is as much for the enjoyment of your opponent as it is for your own gratifaction. No one is saying that you have to paint it to GD standards in a single weekend....but when you are still throwing around your 3rd edition orks in that tackle box and they still have zip for paint on them...thats not a case of no time...thats a case of just plain lazy. I mean primer, spray can base, dry-brush and a couple details and there you go...all done. Call me an elitest if you wish....

I work 12-14 hours a day for the Army, go to shool in the evening several nights a week, still have to provide quality time to the wife (by far the most painful of these time requirements ), work on my motorcycles, deal with my 16 year old daughters "OMG the world is ending because of Blah blah blah", and still find time to pump out 3 40K armies, 5 WHFB armies and just about every pig and goblin unit from the Malifaux line. No they are not all completely painted, but I continue to work towards that goal. To just say "F" it, I am not painting this stuff, means I no longer want to participate in the "Hobby". Oh and in addition I also just got bit by the Apoc bug and some of you have seen my recent Plague Tower and Hell Talon projects.

biccat wrote:...Someone actually had unpainted miniatures in their gallery? I sure hope that they got told. How those people could possibly live with themselves, I have no idea. They must hate puppies.

They got told.

augustus5 wrote:Playing with an unpainted/unconverted army does not equate to laziness,...

Yes it does.

Welcome back, get anything painted in that gallery? Oh, right.

augustus5 wrote:I was the one with the unpainted minis in my gallery. How dare I post pictures of unpainted figures that I was selling in the swap shop at the time. Augustus really got me on that one. You should go back and read the last thread. He made a real fool of himself when he pulled his "ah-ha" moment on me over those unpainted Eldar figures.

I'm surprised you bothered showing up since all you have left is attacks? That's funny.

Use the time you spend here indignantly defending playing unpainted to actually paint something!

kronk wrote:Guys.

Chicks are more impressed by painted armies than unpainted armies.

I play Warhammer 40K to pick up chicks.

That is all I have to say on this topic.

The ladies do indeed love a good paint job:

If I only play with painted miniatures. Just a few days ago I was at my local GW and was watching a Fantasy game. One player had a buetifully painted ogre army, while his oppenent had an unpainted Tomb Kings army. It was an eyesore seeing these great looking ogres against bare-plastic Tomb Kings.

I'm pretty indifferent because I have 18 armies and over 9000 models. So not everything is painted.

I base my "will I participate in a game of the Warhams with you?" strictly on "Do I like you Y/N?"

I see no issue with playing win unpainted minis. I just started the game and their is no way that im going to get 2500 points painted any time soon. I have a job and a wife I have to keep happy so I can play on the weekends!

As a miniatures painting service, I am obliged to say that all models should be painted!

Seriously though, yes, the minis should be painted. At least efforts made to that end, whether utilizing a service or doing it yourself, at least showing a little bit of progress as you go along is always a good thing.

quickfuze wrote:I mean primer, spray can base, dry-brush and a couple details and there you go...all done. Call me an elitest if you wish....

Some people want to take their time painting these overpriced pieces of plastic nicely. But do they really have to wait playing the game till their entire army is done?
Ok, so maybe they can play with only those models they have painted...

But then again, this puts a whole load of pressure onto people who are new to the hobby, if they read stuff like that, they might feel like they're forced to paint, something they might have enjoyed in the first place, but is now turned into a chore.

I really enjoy painting, and I want to do more than just slap paint on them. The end result will look a lot better, resulting in more enjoyable games in the end.

A bit of patience is what people need...

Tomb King wrote:Plus I am worried about ruining some of my models with a bad paint job. Its discouraging to spend a lot of time on a model and then look at it and think... that sucks

I def feel your pain there - I have wasted too many hours and hundreds of pounds on paint and figures this way....... I love converting and making up figures.

I find it far more economic to pay someone with some actual ability to paint them ...........

If youre playing over 2k games regulary, or when you do play, have got a competetive list before you, look at models like they are 'stats', then you have time to paint.

It doesn't take long to paint stuff really. I think the trouble may be learning the techniques. Once you know them you can churn out armies fairly rapidly.

I'm doing my project of 2000 points of DE painted in 20 days and I’m on track to do it in 15 if all goes well.

I'm out at work 8am to 6pm on weekdays. I live with my girlfriend and that probably makes life easier but theres household stuff to do. In the end there's always enough time for hobbying if you make the time.

I get about 2/3 hours of painting time available each night (except Tuesdays as that’s gaming night or Friday night as I prefer to relax with my GF then) weekends are usually good for getting stuff done, she knits I paint.

If you're worried about dropping the value of your stuff you can always strip it with rubbing alcohol.

It's not as time consuming as you'd think.

At my LGS (4TK) everyone has a painted army. Most people have more than 1 army so occasionally you do see some grey stuff on the tables but you know that in a few weeks it will have progressed towards being fully painted.

I have tons of unpainted stuff to do but i don't usually play it unless testing it out.

Anyway in the end it shouldn't take more than a couple of evenings to get a squad painted to a table top standard.

Amphsix wrote:But then again, this puts a whole load of pressure onto people who are new to the hobby,...

A bit of patience is what people need...

Fair enough, that seems legitimate, for new people.

I dont have players around, so i could not choose much in that matter. The only ocasion when i can play, is against a bunch of players who live far away from me, who have very diferent views of what is a good army.

I would like to see all armies painted, and im trying to paint my miniatures to be painted into the majority (starting my first real army right now, DE), i want to reach the point when i will have the option to field only painted miniatures, but i would never mistreat someone because his tottaly grey army (i dont know what he like in hobby, or why he dont paint his minis, maybe he even like his miniatures grey!!!)

What i really dont accept is the "half this, half that" armies, those ones who look like the guys had just bought bunchs of used marines on ebay and striped (or not even that) the paint from the minis. They look bad and dirty.

I do not like playing with completely unpainted model. I do not mind playing with unfinished paint on models. I just do not like seeing just gray on the table.

I used to hate playing with unpainted minis, but since my armies have changed so much due to power creep and what not, I've just stopped caring so I'll play with whatever I feel like using. Painted or not.

quickfuze wrote:I just have to point out that there is a reocurring statement from some in this thread. They say they shouldnt be shunned from the game because they dont have time to paint. I will stick by my guns here, this is not a game....its a hobby. If you want to play a game, Call of Duty 3 is coming out I heard, or there is this game called World of Warcraft that people seem to devote an almost cult like following to... If you want to be part of THIS community then at least make an effort to make the game enjoyable for all involved. A painted army is as much for the enjoyment of your opponent as it is for your own gratifaction. No one is saying that you have to paint it to GD standards in a single weekend....but when you are still throwing around your 3rd edition orks in that tackle box and they still have zip for paint on them...thats not a case of no time...thats a case of just plain lazy. I mean primer, spray can base, dry-brush and a couple details and there you go...all done. Call me an elitest if you wish....

I work 12-14 hours a day for the Army, go to shool in the evening several nights a week, still have to provide quality time to the wife (by far the most painful of these time requirements ), work on my motorcycles, deal with my 16 year old daughters "OMG the world is ending because of Blah blah blah", and still find time to pump out 3 40K armies, 5 WHFB armies and just about every pig and goblin unit from the Malifaux line. No they are not all completely painted, but I continue to work towards that goal. To just say "F" it, I am not painting this stuff, means I no longer want to participate in the "Hobby". Oh and in addition I also just got bit by the Apoc bug and some of you have seen my recent Plague Tower and Hell Talon projects.

Elitism works both ways.

To me are 100% right about separating the "game" from the "hobby"

Those who are in the game are on a different level field of playing. They play in their small sphere if influence with their lists. Perhaps they can win a few local tourneys as well that does not care about painted models. Gamers. That is a good classification for them.

What I get annoyed about is when some of those "gamers" starts to state that they are on equal footing as the Hobbyist and I know they are not because they are totally different aspects of War gaming.

Those who are in the hobby generally try to paint their models. The key word is "try". The hobby to me consists of all aspects of modeling for Miniature War gaming. Painting, converting, gaming. That is where the designation of Hobbyist comes in. Hobbyists generally have a larger sphere of influence and generally can go if they want into any of the bigger tournaments "if they wish to do so" with little problems, because their army is fully painted.

As I have made on my last post, painting is subjective. There is no true way of judging what is good or what is not in painting skills. At least that is the view I take since the rouge trader days. There is always time to paint even it if is one or two models a month. I always try to help those gamers that want to go to where the next level (IMHO that is) in their skills.

Do I play with people with grey armies? Depends on the attitude of the player in question. The same goes with a person with a painted one.

Regardless, it is always nicer and so much easier to see what units are in my opponents painted army than in a grey one.

My only rules are: paint like hell night and day; although even then with my more elite armies like my Cryx I take years doing them up and field primed minis; no grey or silvery whites.

I'm fine with other people using grey minis, if they don't have there arms inside cardboard boxes. Or if they are a cardboard box, boxy brown stormraven, anyone?

I think it's good if, say, it's a newcomer who has just got AoBR. If it continues for a few years without a single painted model, I start to think the guy who owns them is just lazy.
That said, undercoated and badly painted armies are a pet peeve. If a model is just black, how am I going to see how the model looks? And a badly painted army just makes the entire game look garbage. Even your army.
I played a Ravenwing Battleforce + Chaplain that I assembled and painted in a week, and most of the armies I played with were covered in horrible splodgy paint jobs. Bikes missing bikers and massive eyes all made my half-decent Battleforce look bad.
As long as the models are made, I'm normally fine.

I do not like using models of mine that are unpainted - it is causing me issues with my Tomb Kings since I cannot decide on a scheme and I am an atrocious painter that does not enjoy doing it. They are entirely unpainted so far and it is haunting me. ><

If I have a choice of two opponents I will play the one with a painted army more often than not.

Even so, I would not refuse a game because of paint, or lack thereof - and I still practice with my Tomb Kings.

It is all dependent on the context.

Friendly game? I don't care, I'm there for the friendly game.

For a tournament? Yes, the models should be painted.

I have nerve damage in my dominant arm, so I have to rely on painting services, which are generally a large-ish time investment, so I do use unpainted models when testing stuff out. Do I take them to events or more formal games? No, but then again, that's back to context.

I empathise on the nerve damage front.

My hands are both damaged, and they get tremors sometimes..

This makes painting slow, annoying as hell (especially detail work), and after a time painful.

I still paint, as it helps me retrain/control my hands, but it's a pretty trying process. I should be done painting my orks by the time retirement rolls around...

I use a lot of unpainted stuff, because otherwise i'd never get to play, but i do aspire to getting them all painted before the end of the world (or not, if the Mayans were right )...

I used to hate it, and like a snobby GW loyalist douche stuck my nose up to it and refused to play.
Now though...I want to get into Warmachine/Hordes, and don't really care. I have stuff that isn't painted yet...I want to play right now, and will paint it when I am not playing.
If I know the person is working on it then it's all good.

theQuanz wrote:...I want to get into Warmachine/Hordes, and don't really care.

Well from my experience that's the crowd that REALLY doesn't care at all about it, even in events and tourneys, you'll be in comfortable company.

I like to try and use painted models wherever possible, but the trouble is I go through various 'phases', I suppose, of painting. So for a week my undercoated but otherwise unpainted Epic Eldar might be untouched simply because I feel more like painting Thousand Sons, so despite having all 2000pts of my Thousand Sons painted I'll start digging out old models / converting others / buying new ones off eBay to paint instead*.

That said, I do definitely prefer playing with painted models, but have no problem playing with / against unpainted models. Ideally though they'll progress towards painted

*Having said that I'm now on an Epic painting spree, and have typically just run out of black spray paint!

ParatrooperSimon wrote:I'm pretty sure this has probaley come up on numerous ocations. But I'd thought I would ask

The question is in the title

It is a great excuse for a painting demonstartion, or class.

I have been able to increase my painting skills in leaps and bounds, but I still do, and always will play with unpainted models.

Say I have the models but want to test out a list before I decide exactly which of my models need to be painted now rather than in a few weeks time, I will have to use unpainted models to see if they are worth painting first.

Also i like to take my time painting my armies, and tbh I have never use a fully painted army that I myself own :/

Augustus wrote:

theQuanz wrote:...I want to get into Warmachine/Hordes, and don't really care.

Well from my experience that's the crowd that REALLY doesn't care at all about it, even in events and tourneys, you'll be in comfortable company.

Unfortunately that's been my experience at my FLGS also. If you like playing against painted armies WM/Hordes is just about the worst choice you can make in terms of the emphasis/importance that the game community places on painting.

Of course the percent of 40k and WHFB painted armies at the FLGS is nothing to get excited about either.

At my FLGS the breakdown seems to be:
GW games 30-50 % painted
PP Games 10-30% painted

Admittedly, I'm only at the FLGS once very two weeks, but this is my observation after over a year of regular bi-weekly club meetings. By contrast, since we've started our gaming club, we've yet to put a single unpainted fig on the table in 18 months of bi-weekly gaming!

I play the game mainly to paint the models. I paint far more than I play as well.

I don't mind playing an opponent who is in the process of painting and has something new painted each week or so to show progress. And at the very least the army should be primed.

If one makes no effort to get their army painted then they are likely to have no respect for their models, which means no respect for my models.(note I said likely)

Models aren't cheap, and if I'm spending the money on them to begin with then I'd like to see them painted up nicely.

And if you personally can't paint for whatever reason, look into either having a friend do it or getting commission work done. Take pride in your investment.

Eilif wrote:

Augustus wrote:

theQuanz wrote:...I want to get into Warmachine/Hordes, and don't really care.

Well from my experience that's the crowd that REALLY doesn't care at all about it, even in events and tourneys, you'll be in comfortable company.

Unfortunately that's been my experience at my FLGS also. If you like playing against painted armies WM/Hordes is just about the worst choice you can make in terms of the emphasis/importance that the game community places on painting.

Of course the percent of 40k and WHFB painted armies at the FLGS is nothing to get excited about either.

At my FLGS the breakdown seems to be:
GW games 30-50 % painted
PP Games 10-30% painted

Admittedly, I'm only at the FLGS once very two weeks, but this is my observation after over a year of regular bi-weekly club meetings. By contrast, since we've started our gaming club, we've yet to put a single unpainted fig on the table in 18 months of bi-weekly gaming!

I must be the exception that proves the rule in that case! I tend to paint Warmachine models as soon as I get them, as do nearly all my regular opponents

Forgotmytea wrote:I must be the exception that proves the rule in that case! I tend to paint Warmachine models as soon as I get them, as do nearly all my regular opponents

Well done sir! The WM models I see on the tables are so well detailed and sculpted that it seems a shame that they're not usually painted. Whenever I see someone with a painted WM army I always make a point of stopping by to see it up close.

I paint slowly. I want to make sure things are painted well. It annoys me to have unfinished things on the table because someone demanded it all be painted - simply because all those Chapter and Squad markings, shields, banners etc do not deserve to be rushed! To some degree I'd rather field WIP or unpainted models than have rushed something that I'll only have to come back to later.

While i will play against and with unpainted models I would much prefer to have it painted. I only really play unpainted stuff if i just got it and are desperate to try it out.

Eilif wrote:

Forgotmytea wrote:I must be the exception that proves the rule in that case! I tend to paint Warmachine models as soon as I get them, as do nearly all my regular opponents

Well done sir! The WM models I see on the tables are so well detailed and sculpted that it seems a shame that they're not usually painted. Whenever I see someone with a painted WM army I always make a point of stopping by to see it up close.

Well said all round and well done!

PP stuff is really spectacular! So much great material! Huzah to you both!

Eilif wrote:

Forgotmytea wrote:I must be the exception that proves the rule in that case! I tend to paint Warmachine models as soon as I get them, as do nearly all my regular opponents

Well done sir! The WM models I see on the tables are so well detailed and sculpted that it seems a shame that they're not usually painted. Whenever I see someone with a painted WM army I always make a point of stopping by to see it up close.

I'm there Tuesday nights.

I only ever play painted.

Augustus wrote:

Eilif wrote:

Forgotmytea wrote:I must be the exception that proves the rule in that case! I tend to paint Warmachine models as soon as I get them, as do nearly all my regular opponents

Well done sir! The WM models I see on the tables are so well detailed and sculpted that it seems a shame that they're not usually painted. Whenever I see someone with a painted WM army I always make a point of stopping by to see it up close.

Well said all round and well done!

PP stuff is really spectacular! So much great material! Huzah to you both!

Thank you! To be honest, the models were a large part of what inspired me to play it in the first place

The models of WM really are awesome. I might start it at some point in the future.. when a.: I have money, and b.: I have someone to play with.... and currently that would be no-one.

If a person is making an effort to paint their army, no issues.

But if I play somebody and 6 months down the road and their very same army isnt even primed... come on

malfred wrote:

Eilif wrote:

Forgotmytea wrote:I must be the exception that proves the rule in that case! I tend to paint Warmachine models as soon as I get them, as do nearly all my regular opponents

Well done sir! The WM models I see on the tables are so well detailed and sculpted that it seems a shame that they're not usually painted. Whenever I see someone with a painted WM army I always make a point of stopping by to see it up close.

I'm there Tuesday nights.

I only ever play painted.

That's what I like to hear!
I think we may have met. My gaming club formerly met on Tuesday nights (now Thursdays for the past few months). Did you formerly play at BSun? For a short while I gamed there regularly (with a reddish-brown Imperial Guard force with Pig Iron Heads) and it always seemed to be on WM nights. There were a couple of guys with painted forces.

I never play with unpainted models unless I literally just bought it and want to give it a go on the table while I have a chance. Needless to say, I don't play too many games. I'm a slow painter

Eilif wrote:

malfred wrote:

Eilif wrote:

Forgotmytea wrote:I must be the exception that proves the rule in that case! I tend to paint Warmachine models as soon as I get them, as do nearly all my regular opponents

Well done sir! The WM models I see on the tables are so well detailed and sculpted that it seems a shame that they're not usually painted. Whenever I see someone with a painted WM army I always make a point of stopping by to see it up close.

I'm there Tuesday nights.

I only ever play painted.

That's what I like to hear!
I think we may have met. My gaming club formerly met on Tuesday nights (now Thursdays for the past few months). Did you formerly play at BSun? For a short while I gamed there regularly (with a reddish-brown Imperial Guard force with Pig Iron Heads) and it always seemed to be on WM nights. There were a couple of guys with painted forces.

Oh yeah, you're the demo dude!

"Malfred, keeping the WM scene alive in Chicago!"

Eilif wrote:Oh yeah, you're the demo dude!

"Malfred, keeping the WM scene alive in Chicago!"

With BSG gone, Mike Plummer is on point at the Dice Dojo. I can't
make it to their regular WM nights, so you won't see me most Thursdays.

I really, really don't like it, because it makes filming a lot less interesting. Seeing a fully painted army (usually mine) next to an unpainted one really eats away at the visual spectacle of the whole thing. And for me, that's one of the main reasons for playing... Seeing a graphic novel play out in real time.

Hi folks.
IMO , it all depends on the game , and the gamers preferences.

Some games dont need lots of 'visual spectacle' to carry the game play.Some games do.
Some players have more imagination than others and can play games with just plain counters, others need more detailed playing pieces/counters to keep them aware of the state of the game.


Why is it that collectors that paint and never play are simply accepted.
Yet gamers who play but dont paint are questioned ?
(Probably due to GW focus on minatures above game play.)


There is no right and wrong. It your hobby participate in the parts that make you happy .

Personally, I never field 'grey' units (unless of course they're painted that way xD), I always have something primed before it hits the table. For tournaments at my FLGS, I do my utmost to paint my forces in time and I enjoy that, because it gives me a lot of incentive to get my models painted.

I imagine that when I spend horrible amounts of money on a DE army after Christmas, I shan't play the game for a good long while

I personally will avoid fielding 'grey units'. I will play most players, but I prefer to play people who actually invest time in painting their force to a good quality or to the best of their ability. There is nothing better and more pleasing to the eye than seeing to fully 'table top quality or better' painted armies on the gaming board...

I wouldn't want to play with unpainted models myself, I'd prefer my opponent not to too, though I wouldn't be a dick if they chose to