The models are among the best I have seen (Don't agree with certain Aesthetic choices, but I can't argue with detail) and I have ordered some of PanOceana's models to try to better my painting skills.
So I figure what is Infinity? More lorewise than anything, as I know that it's cover based with lots of special rules.
It's kind of like Ghost in the Shell: The tabletop game, as far as atmosphere goes.
There are a bunch of human factions kept under control by an AI named Aleph. No one's directly at war with one another, but skirmishes do arise. There's also Aliens that are out to do bad things to humanity.
Well, there's the O12, which is kind of like the UN, but with more power that keeps the peace between the factions most of the time. Aleph, the AI that runs the show, has a hand in this. It's not an oppressive AI ruler, so much as a benevolent force that assists in the governance of the world and makes sure that minor altercations don't end up evolving into all out war.
At least, that's from what I've gathered so far. I haven't gotten a chance to read all the fluff yet.
Fafnir wrote:Well, there's the O12, which is kind of like the UN, but with more power that keeps the peace between the factions most of the time. Aleph, the AI that runs the show, has a hand in this. It's not an oppressive AI ruler, so much as a benevolent force that assists in the governance of the world and makes sure that minor altercations don't end up evolving into all out war.
At least, that's from what I've gathered so far. I haven't gotten a chance to read all the fluff yet.
So it's definately not "I have no mouth, but must Scream!" level, then? Fair enough.
PanO is the "richest" of the human factions, and the most high-tech (they have the largest numbers of TAG units and personnel with cubes - which allow the host consciousness to be implanted into a new body after "death".
Nomads are the disenfranchised and rebellious space gypsies. Illegal body modifications, secure banking and mercenary markets. They also resent Aleph (they see it more as an overlord than as mankind's servant, and they see PanO as its dupe).
I pretty much describe it as "Ghost in the shell" the game. Small unit skirmish actions (usually 10 models per side, although some factions can field more because of cheaper troops).
Close combat DOES play a part, but it's a small part, and you get to take actions during the other player's turn, so no-one gets bored.
PanO is the "richest" of the human factions, and the most high-tech (they have the largest numbers of TAG units and personnel with cubes - which allow the host consciousness to be implanted into a new body after "death".
Doesn't Haqislam have the most cubes? Since they're the ones that actually make the drug that lets you use them.
With all due respect to the OP, there are so many threads on here about "What is Infinity", did this question really need another thread? Add to that, Infinity has a website, with all the answers you need......at one point, people were falling over themselves to promote Infinity, and make sure it was easy for new players to get the "what what" on the game....but now, Infinity is a firmly established game that doesn't really need it's player base to pander to people who can't be bothered to search.
Sorry, if I come across as a dick, and I really don't want to put you off from trying out this wonderful game......but it's a bit like me going onto the main forum and asking..."WH40K, so what's it all about?"
And their are two rulebooks with fluff in them: Infinity and Infinity: Human Sphere.
There is no way we could describe a whole games worth of fluff, as Delephont said, it's like having to describe 40k. Not as a large i grant you but still very complex.
I'd suggest using those links and buying the rulebooks if you have the cash. Just like you would if you were starting 40k for the first time. I hope you find the links useful.
I'm going to disagree with Delephont and LostSoulCasey'sLaw, mainly because there isn't a place on the official site that gives an overview of the factions and background.
The miniatures page gives a single paragraph about each faction and then background for individual units. The Access Guide links at the bottom of most of the pages are dead links.
If you like videos then the official YouTube channel gives a decent overview, otherwise I wrote an background introduction article myself because it doesn't exist anywhere else...
IJW wrote:I'm going to disagree with Delephont and LostSoulCasey'sLaw, mainly because there isn't a place on the official site that gives an overview of the factions and background.
The miniatures page gives a single paragraph about each faction and then background for individual units. The Access Guide links at the bottom of most of the pages are dead links.
If you like videos then the official YouTube channel gives a decent overview, otherwise I wrote an background introduction article myself because it doesn't exist anywhere else...
What you say is true, and I want to reiterate, I don't want to come across as a dick, but my main point was, there are a number of threads now where people have asked this question, and people like Bobbafett and BlueDagger have gone out of their way to present the game, and basically "spoon feed" people the answers to all of thier questions. I guess a quick search by the OP would have solved their problems very quickly!!
Well i'm not disagreeing with IJW either to be honest. With Delephont i was agreeing as to the difficulty of summing up a lore overview in one post.
I agree that the Infinity website is extremely lacking but it's a enough for a new guy to get a feel for it. At which point i would recommend that you get the rulebooks.
I have to admit i forgot about that page you made IJW. The thing is i wouldn't expect anyone to write that out in a thread for me, not even on the official forums, especially when i don't appear to have done any research myself. Then again your much nicer than normal people IJW! In fact Slarg the best advice is to check out all of IJW's resources. He has done a lot to help new players. Once you've got what you can from them you should buy the rulebooks.
Automatically Appended Next Post: It appears that we all agree about the core of the issue.
I'll second getting the rulebook. The setting is fairly complex and the best way to get to know it is reading about the different factions and societies in the rulebook. And it's full color.
Fafnir wrote:Well, there's the O12, which is kind of like the UN, but with more power that keeps the peace between the factions most of the time. Aleph, the AI that runs the show, has a hand in this. It's not an oppressive AI ruler, so much as a benevolent force that assists in the governance of the world and makes sure that minor altercations don't end up evolving into all out war.
At least, that's from what I've gathered so far. I haven't gotten a chance to read all the fluff yet.
In fact, I remember from the books that... if there is a BIG stuation somewhere, in some planet , O-12 can stop all the "space-traffic" and be the only army allowed to move their ships there. That's power.
In that O-12 control the Circulars* and therefore interstellar traffic, yes.
*For people who haven't absorbed all the background material, the Circulars are vast (no, bigger than that!) ships that loop between all the colonies via fixed wormhole shortcuts.
IJW wrote:In that O-12 control the Circulars* and therefore interstellar traffic, yes.
*For people who haven't absorbed all the background material, the Circulars are vast (no, bigger than that!) ships that loop between all the colonies via fixed wormhole shortcuts.
They are ships that carry smaller ships, and even an entire Nomad fleet like Bakunin can travel using a circular.
I made a new thread for several reasons, actually; one of which I was only asking for fluff based knowledge, and didn't want to wade through "Oh, it's got lots of cover!" twenty thousand times, another of which, as has been said, the main site is lacking, and I don't want to know how to play it, I'm just trying to figure out what makes my dudes tick a little bit.
I'm just trying to get better at painting, and Infinity has some pretty sweet models. I just would like to get inside their heads a little bit for when I start painting them.
Fafnir wrote:Well, there's the O12, which is kind of like the UN, but with more power that keeps the peace between the factions most of the time. Aleph, the AI that runs the show, has a hand in this. It's not an oppressive AI ruler, so much as a benevolent force that assists in the governance of the world and makes sure that minor altercations don't end up evolving into all out war.
At least, that's from what I've gathered so far. I haven't gotten a chance to read all the fluff yet.
Or soIT wants you to belive,.........................sorry nomad player
Son, I've been on this website since before your account was a twinkling in your computer's eye.
Sorry, what? Which website? Dakka? Your account says you joined in 2010?!?.....more posts, doesn't mean longer duration....it just means you post alot.
Now that's out of the way, I have to ask what prompted you to even make that statement? Have you confused something I've posted as an insult? I'd truely like to know
Son, I've been on this website since before your account was a twinkling in your computer's eye.
Sorry, what? Which website? Dakka? Your account says you joined in 2010?!?.....more posts, doesn't mean longer duration....it just means you post alot.
Now that's out of the way, I have to ask what prompted you to even make that statement? Have you confused something I've posted as an insult? I'd truely like to know
Oh beleive me man, If I ever use the word "Son", it's not an insult
A slice of 'on topic' anyone? You should definitely buy the rulebooks, if you just need info on one or two guys go to the website and the miniatures gallery and click on the model, there is information down the side of the image.
Son, I've been on this website since before your account was a twinkling in your computer's eye.
Sorry, what? Which website? Dakka? Your account says you joined in 2010?!?.....more posts, doesn't mean longer duration....it just means you post alot.
Now that's out of the way, I have to ask what prompted you to even make that statement? Have you confused something I've posted as an insult? I'd truely like to know
Oh beleive me man, If I ever use the word "Son", it's not an insult
Wasn't even looking at dates, to tell the truth.
Now that wasn't a very smart thing to do, was it?
Seriously, there's a lot of interesting threads on the topic that you've posted, so a quick look around would have been helpful, and then you could have posted a more specific series of questions.
We have a couple of regulars here who are excellent when it comes to 'helping out' with Infinity matters.
This thread is starting to get a bit 'testy'.
It might be time to file it under "lesson learned' and move on to friendlier things...
The miniatures are probably among the best I have seen, if not the best. The detail in mind blowing. Only thing I can really point out that is a negative, some of the minis that are big and bulking are still made in Metal and not plastic/resin.
The game get a fair amount of play at on of several game shops in my area. The complexity is probably what prevents it from getting more plays. Malifaux is king right now for the skirmish games. 7 days a week there is a tournament or 2 or even 3.
Infinity does have a steep learning curve but the rules do make for the "ultimate tactical game"
How you build your force and your tactics is what is going to win you games. Not lucky dice rolls. Well, more so than most games anyway. With the whole "it's always your turn" is both fun and frustrating.
Nothing more annoying than having your best character pinned down by a sniper and the rest of your team is on the other side unable to help.
But also fun when you have a few guys of your own who have LoS through a few windows that can light up a enemy character trying to run after the objective.
Defiantly more involved with Infinity, if you have a short attention span you will get your ass kicked.
Infinity is a game that presents both sweet and sour flavors with sexy minis.
Anyone notice that just about all the women in Infinity have a perfect ass? The future is bright.
Piston Honda wrote: Anyone notice that just about all the women in Infinity have a perfect ass? The future is bright.
It's not bright, the sun doesn't shine on it
So here is a question; How many "Cutters", or rather big mechanical suits, would a standard PanO squad have? I rather like the look of the Cutter, not so much the other one.
And in order to cut off another question, how many Spider bot things would one have?
Not many. The more big expensive models you have, the fewer Orders you have to be able to do anything with them. You won't normally see more than one TAG in a list.
You can do a list that's almost all Remotes but it has several downsides in that they're all hackable, bad at Dodging and once you're Lieutenant is dead you're in serious trouble as you can't pick a Remote as the new Lieutenant.
IJW wrote:You can do a list that's almost all Remotes but it has several downsides in that they're all hackable, bad at Dodging and once you're Lieutenant is dead you're in serious trouble as you can't pick a Remote as the new Lieutenant.
Despite all this, I bravely play a 12 remote list quite often. One day I'll see that terrible -6 to dodge and the no prone rules go away... *cries softly*
IJW wrote:You can do a list that's almost all Remotes but it has several downsides in that they're all hackable, bad at Dodging and once you're Lieutenant is dead you're in serious trouble as you can't pick a Remote as the new Lieutenant.
Despite all this, I bravely play a 12 remote list quite often. One day I'll see that terrible -6 to dodge and the no prone rules go away... *cries softly*
How did the French get put into the same army as the Scotts, Americans, and Cossacks? One of these things just isn't like the other!
Because "lol French are cowards" or did you have a non-ridiculous reason for asking this? France has pretty clear historical ties to Scotland and the US. I imagine that "because they wanted to" is probably a significant factor.
How did the French get put into the same army as the Scotts, Americans, and Cossacks? One of these things just isn't like the other!
Because "lol French are cowards" or did you have a non-ridiculous reason for asking this? France has pretty clear historical ties to Scotland and the US. I imagine that "because they wanted to" is probably a significant factor.
No, it's pretty much the French are cowards thing.
Saying the French are cowards is a seriously stupid statement to make, the way I see it, the French capitulated to what they percieved as a superior fighting force (WWII), rathr than simply fight and die, there was also a strong French resistance during that period, where many French resistance fighters gave their lives in an attempt to disrupt German strategies!!
Calling the French cowards is like calling the Jews of the time cowards for simply being marched onto trains and led to concentration camps! I'd like to see anyone on this forum call a IDF operator a coward to his/her face.
Sometimes people on these forums make the most stupid comments, really gives wargaming a bad name.
How did the French get put into the same army as the Scotts, Americans, and Cossacks? One of these things just isn't like the other!
Because "lol French are cowards" or did you have a non-ridiculous reason for asking this? France has pretty clear historical ties to Scotland and the US. I imagine that "because they wanted to" is probably a significant factor.
No, it's pretty much the French are cowards thing.
Well, it's lucky that your ancestors didn't take that viewpoint when the American war for Independence was going on, as it's arguable that the war would have been a great deal more bloody and long-winded without their help.
The French faired poorly in the wars of the last century, but you can point the finger at social and industrial constraints placed on their military, looking at the rest of history shows that nothing could be further from the truth.
Why the cossacks, americans, scotts and french are in the same army is explained in their fluff, tied in with the Ariadna colony ship. That said, they are not very fond of each other really.
Long story short Arianda was for the first colonization ships that was sent out to settle and was made up of sections of the great nations of the time, but was lost for a loooong time. They survived despite their harsh conditions, but still don't like each other.
That is why Ariandna's weapons are "oldschool" compared to other armies.
Delephont wrote:Saying the French are cowards is a seriously stupid statement to make, the way I see it, the French capitulated to what they percieved as a superior fighting force (WWII), rathr than simply fight and die, there was also a strong French resistance during that period, where many French resistance fighters gave their lives in an attempt to disrupt German strategies!!
There are always exceptions to the rules. The Resistance were a group of people who would rather die than lose everything they own, I can respect that. However, most French people that I have met have confirmed that stereotype. Note that I am talking From France, not French Blooded. Most of them have all talked a big game, and been able to walk the walk, and I know it's not just an isolated incident.
Calling the French cowards is like calling the Jews of the time cowards for simply being marched onto trains and led to concentration camps! I'd like to see anyone on this forum call a IDF operator a coward to his/her face.
Not quite. For you see, France is a country, Jews are a people. Jews are also the ONLY religion in my experiance that practices their religion as it is intended; I have never heard of a Jew blowing themselves up, have you? I've never seen a Jew saying "Woe is me, Woe is me! I have 20 friends, everything provided for me, and a family that loves me." Jews are the most respectworthy religious peoples out there.
All religions say that they will be put through hardships, and that how they respond to it will affect them in the afterlife. Catholics? Go to war, start inqusitions. Muslims? Go to war, blow themselves up. Jews? They held onto their beliefs through hardship, now didn't they?
Sometimes people on these forums make the most stupid comments, really gives wargaming a bad name.
No, what makes wargames look bad are the (Quite literally) unwashed masses.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Pacific wrote:
Well, it's lucky that your ancestors didn't take that viewpoint when the American war for Independence was going on, as it's arguable that the war would have been a great deal more bloody and long-winded without their help.
Considering that France knew that they would want an ally against Britain (As, correct me if I am wrong, the two hated each other at the time), and it's really just a move of politics that they helped us during that war, now isn't it?
The French faired poorly in the wars of the last century, but you can point the finger at social and industrial constraints placed on their military, looking at the rest of history shows that nothing could be further from the truth.
Looking at the rest of history shows that people fought with pointed sticks and metal suits instead of Flak and Guns. Just because something happened before, doesn't mean it has a bearing with a discussion about something now.
If we were talking about say.... "Why America is making some incredibly dumb choices right now", you would be able to draw comparisons to Ancient Greece; They grew powerful and important, and then they got lazy and fat. Then they got sacked by the people they hired to fight for them.
So Greece:
Powerful
Important,
Fat
Lazy
Hired people to fight for them.
Not wanting to make a new thread, I figured I'd ask in here, which seems to be a thread for people who want to know about the game.
I know I have a friend interested in the game, since he loves anime, and especially Ghost in the Shell. Pretty sure I can get my brother into the game as well. I'm not too big on anime, but the Haqqislam range looks great. If I manage to talk them into starting, would the starter Haqqislam box and rulebook keep me going for a while?
How big do your 'armies' tend to get? There's quite a lot of models in each range, though I assume it's like Necromunda was - models will depend how you want to equip each?
-Loki- wrote:
If I manage to talk them into starting, would the starter Haqqislam box and rulebook keep me going for a while?
Honestly, only buy the box if you think that the models in it are ones you really want. Buying the starter box just because it's the starter box is not a great decision.
You may want to consider just getting advice from other people when putting together your starting force. Your best bet would be to build around a central theme, and the starter boxes don't really do that. Pick models individually, if the starter box presents a good deal for the models you would get anyway, go for that.
How big do your 'armies' tend to get? There's quite a lot of models in each range, though I assume it's like Necromunda was - models will depend how you want to equip each?
Average games of Infinity are played at 300 points (although you'll likely want to start smaller). Most teams at that point range between 8 and 16 models. Models represent their unit type (obviously) and the equipment they carry, but most players will generally be fairly lenient, so long as you clearly identify everything (this is important, since there are parts that you're not supposed to tell your opponents, so make sure they're absolutely clear about everything that they should know).
I'll give it a download then. I'm not a huge fan of reading PDFs on a monitor though.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Another question - is it normal to buy multiples of models?
Like, I'm looking at all these Haqqislam models, and there's Hassassin, Asawira, Al Hawwa, Odalisques, etc. Do you mix and match, or stick with one 'type' within the faction?
You don't have to use multiples of the SAME model, but depending on your list and points, you might have to just to fit that other order in.
That said, there are usually several variants of a given unit type with a different model. There are 8 different sculpts for the fusiliers (unit type), for example. Ranging from combi rifle to hacker to multi-sniper, to HMG and I think a LGL.
You can (if choosing from the main list) choose a unit model from ANY of the available choices. So a main Haqq list can choose from Hassassin, Odalisques, Al Hawwa, Muyibs, etc.
Sectorials limit your unit choices, but give you higher AVA (so you can take more of them) to compensate.
And Sectorials also allow you to use Linked units, which are very powerful.
But as chromedog said, they generally limit your unit choices. For example, I'm working on a Haqqislam force, and since I'm building it around Saladin, I can't use linked units, since he's not available to any sectorial force.
Awesome. I'll likely grab the rulebook this week, and depending on what they have for Haqqislam, I'll grab something that stands out. Maybe they'll have that Al Hawwa sniper I want. Give the rules a thorough reading, and see where I want to take my team.
For terrain, do you have to play on an Urban board? It's not likely we'll have one for a long time. Would say, a 40k table dense with terrain be okay?
Honestly, you should have almost the entire board covered with some line-of-sight obstructing terrain. 40k terrain can work, but you'll need a lot of it, and you'll need to fill the table with it. The terrain in the map drastically changes how a game is played in infinity.
Sadly I play Tyranids, so I have no abundance of transports to use for terrain.
I actually just realized I have boxes laying around - VC battalion box, 40k building box, landing pad box, etc. If I feel the need for some boxy terrain, I have plenty. But I think we can make do with what I have while starting out.
Also, I had a gander at the rules - holy gak its complicated. I'm used to 40k. I might need to see if anyone at my LGS can give me a quick runthrough of a game.
I think a better idea is put together some models and have someone at my FLGS run me through a game or two. They have an ongoing league there, so someone should be able to help out.
Definitely see if someone can run you through the game if possible - it may seem complex, but is actually quite intuitive, and you will get used to the modifiers involved and the stats for your troops in no time at all.
Also, don't jump into the deep end in terms of points value. Although 300pts is the standard starting value, you will have a lot of fun at first even with 3-4 models a side (just a few line infantry and perhaps one heavy trooper or sniper each), and that will help you get used to game mechanics. As Fafnir says, it's great fun the firs time your guy throws himself out of sight the first time fire comes his way, or your sniper drills someone trying to run between 2 buildings
Finally, lots and lots of terrain. Go stupid with it, the board needs to be full to get the most from this game.
That was the idea. Looking through the Haqqislam range again, I'll probably grab two blisters of Hassassin Muyibs and a Hassassin Lasiq.
5 models with varied equipment might not be very optimised, but I like the models, so it'll get me painting, and it's varied enough to show me different things.
The nice thing about Infinity is that unlike 40k, spamming one thing that works isn't always the optimal way to get things done. The way units work with one another is an incredibly important factor in Infinity.
In the case of Muyibs, I wouldn't get too discouraged if you lost a lot with them early on. Muyibs require a fair amount of skill to use well, but can be extremely threatening when done so.
For the most part though, it's hard to find a model in Infinity that's outright bad. And most combinations can work, with some thought put behind them. Pick what looks and sounds cool, and play with that.
Getting started on Infinity myself. As people have mentioned, you need lots of LOS-blocking terrain, or you really reward camping with snipers/HMGs.
The site is really not bad: the free army-builder is a joy to use, and the factions all have decent concepts and possibilities. Lots of dead links on the fluff area, however.
The forums are also very helpful. Beware, though: you can get caught in a bit of a crossfire between the 'It's not your list, it's YOU' faction, who believes any legal list can beat any other and why are you even posting your list on the forum for comments, you lazy git!, and the people who think we can abuse Infinity with broken lists and our 40k-tainted minds.
The boards are great though, extremely helpful people and it's basically the same 4 people arguing about lists (although you could make the same argument that a lot of the 'trouble' on Dakka tends to come from a small group, that has got smaller since various bannings etc)
As usual I think it's just people polarising each other's opinions, and the truth is somewhere in between - of course list building is important, but it is not as important in some other games (chiefly GW ones).
It's the limit of how many of those units you may have in your army (it does NOT change with points levels). It does not mean PER GROUP.
AVA 1 means you may have no more than 1 in you army.
AVA 3 means you can have 0-3 of them in your army.
AVA total means your entire army can be made up of those units.
He gives you an additional order than ONLY he can use (for movement or shooting), allows an automatic pass on a single 'Guts' check on any other model (spend his order to do so), and for a handful of other uses. You do NOT have to use it, but if you declare "Lt's order " and do something, you have just painted a great big bullseye on him.
For pre-made terrain (walls, etc) no, there really isn't much in the way of cheap stuff. Pegasus Hobbies do some sandbag walls and drums (pre-painted, too) or barbed wire and stuff, but most games terrain requires some amount of assembly.
Are Drs important? Do you have any 2 wound models that you need to keep alive? Then you need a doc.
If, like me, your guys tend to get splatted past unconscious by inflicted wounds (into dead) then don't bother.
SWC is 1 per 50pts. At 200, your cap is 4. At 300, it is 6. Special Weapons Cost (weapons like HMGs, LGLs, MLs, etc will have a SWC in addition to the points cost of the unit/model. This is not added into your points tally, but against the SWC limit).
So AVA is like a FOC (thinking in 40k terms) for unit types?
So, Hassassin Muyibs have an AVA of 3, so I can only include 3 of them total in my army? Does that extend to, say, Hassassin Lasiqs, or do they have their own AVA?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Okay, figured a lot of stuff out stumbling through the list maker. That's an awesome tool they provide for free.
The first thing that I was taken aback by was the lack of customisation, being used to 40k's customise everything approach. Like, I need to eat up one more point to get to 200, and there's nothing to spend it on, but it won't give me a 'legal' list at 4 SWC until I use that last point.
Is that normal? Like, playing a 200 point game, getting to 199 points and 4 SWC, and thus being illegal?
Several of my lists have been 1 pt under at 300 and the army builder has let me use the full SWC6 for it.
I think it's the points level you are playing at that determines the SWC you can field.
The AVA is per UNIT type (Hassassin Muyibs and Hassassin Lasiqs are different UNITS). The army builder lets you take 3 Hassassin Ragiks (AVA3) and 2 Muyibs (AVA2) even though they are both Hassassin units (in a core Haqqislam army). In a pure Hassassin Sectorial list, you can take more of each (but none or fewer of the non "fluff" units).
ATM, infinity is a game that relies on "proxying" and converting to get the unit sub-types you want because there just aren't that many models released compared to the possible units you can take.
This is what I have so far for 200 points. This is based one primarily the models I like in the range (primary factor for me with pretty much anything related to wargaming)) and no 'waste' models. I'm buying blisters and using every model.
I have a feeling it's missing 'something'. I've seen lots of mention of hackers in the rules, which I didn't fit into the group. It's also nine points short, which is worrying.
Looks good you have a variety of stuff, and a good idea to start on that number of points I think. You can work out what is missing when you have some games under your belt and move up to 300.
The Fiday is awesome by the way, so much fun to use. Especially if you have varied opponents, in Infinity you don't show your army list to your opponent before the game in most cases, it's really funny to spring one on them (kill the guy and then use his weapon on his friends to boot )
For 9 points, why not get a couple of these cute little guys (Nasmat remotes) to run around and help your doctor?
Pacific wrote: in Infinity you don't show your army list to your opponent before the game in most cases, it's really funny to spring one on them (kill the guy and then use his weapon on his friends to boot )
Not strictly true. Everyone I know who plays fields two lists (one closed - showing everything and one open - showing only the units that are not camo, AD or hidden with the LT concealed also). You show your opponent the open list - he has to gauge what isn't there and might be based off points and SWC. And Tournaments use TWO list protocols, where you choose your list per game (thus you need to have four lists, two open and two closed).
You've got a Doc, you may as well run nasmats for him. He can take 2 of them, and it will extend his range (He can use his Doctor skill THROUGH it, and it moves faster than he does).
Yeah, what's actually on the table is public knowledge and the reason several of the army builders have options to print out a list that excludes AD/Camo/LT etc.
Having assemble alot of these I can say that conversions are indeed possible since there is multiple pieces, but it isn't easy by any stretch of the imagination.
-Loki- wrote:Regarding conversions, are the models solid one peice?
There's quite a few companies that make resin guns at this size, but if they're solid one peice, that goes out the window.
Depends a lot on the model. Most of my PanO LI are single piece casts, but the croc-men are at least 1 arm (and weapon) separates, if not both arms and weapon (which will often have the other hand moulded onto the weapon). The HI tend to have separate arms and heads. The Keisotsu butai for Yu-jing are mostly one piece, the missile launcher being an exception (arm is separate).
I can't say about Haqq or Ariadna or Combine (don't play them) and the only Nomad figure I have is a Masai who came with separate arms.
Grabbed my first models tonight - my Ghulam doctor and panzerfaust lugger (holy gak, the panzerfaust model is double the price of the doctor), and my Hassassin Fiday.
I wanted to get my Muyibs and Ghulam troops, but their Haqqislam range was actually not that extensive. They practicall had 2x the amount for every other faction.
Any of them lol.There isn't really "Artillery" except maybe Arianda's Traktor Muls.
Infinity is kinda like modern day special ops as opposed to large scale warfare. The biggest collateral damage weapon you usually will see is a missile launcher.
studderingdave wrote:thanks for the suggestion. i will add that too my list. anything else you see is very important to own if i was going down the shascastii route?
I think that is a very cool list. But Infinity is not a bout your army list, is about what can you do with it.
Play a few games with those 8 orders. Remember that if are using Hidden Deployment with any TO cammo unit you cannot use that order as a regular order.
Use the Sphinx as your main attack unit. Use the Speculo Killer as your assassin, deploy her next to the possible Lt. or the most dangerous enemy sniper and kill him!
Wait for the right moment for ARO reaction shots with your main defensive troops: Maligno Sniper and Noctifer with Spitfire.
Your 3 Seed Soldiers will be born at your 2nd turn, make a fireteam with them and place them in a good position where their Combi rifles have the +3 against any attacker, try not to expose them to any Line of Fire longer than 16".
One thing that you can do after the innitiative roll is: If you have the first active turn, deploy all your TO cammo miniatures as markers and maximize your 8 orders in making damage with the Speculo killer and the Sphinx, do not reveal any other units.
If you don´t have the first active turn, make hidden deployment with all your TO cammo troops and only reveal them if you have a good ARO chance with any attacker. When the active turn comes to you, reveal TOs as TO cammo markers and use their regular orders.
Considering I haven't worked with metal models in a longass time, should I wash these before I paint them, like resin models? They use similar molds, so I assume there will be release agent on them?
I can't speak specifically about Infinity models (I only got my first few earlier this week - possibly only as pretty display models, but I'm hoping to use them to lure other players in so I can collect a proper force - and I'm not planning to not wash them to see if the paint doesn't stick), but it's good to wash models of any material before painting. Release agent or not, you're likely to have left oily fingerprints from when you put them together.
Umm I have to be honest, it's not something I have ever done. I mean to me metals have never had that slightly oily residue on them that you get with resins, but it is possible that I have been doing it wrong for 20+ years
How did the construction of those Haqqislam go Loki? I know they can be difficult some times, you have to keep the final target in mind!
Pacific wrote:How did the construction of those Haqqislam go Loki? I know they can be difficult some times, you have to keep the final target in mind!
They are all stuck to their bases and cleaned. That's about it. I'm still debating whether I should stick them all together before painting, or leave off the occasional arm that blocks detail (like the Ghulam Panzerfaust lugger, who, when built, has binocular that totally obscure the face and make painting the face and binoculars difficult to paint. The doctor and Fiday look like they'll go together better, though with the Fiday, I'm having the problem of the shotgun not touching the ground, so I might need to place something under it.
Honestly though, I've been really busy working on 40k terrain - my fiancee got my a table, battlemat and some terrain for Christmas, and I've been getting stuff ready so next time my friend wants a game, we can play at here rather than the shop. Plus painting Skeletons. Plus Tyranids.
The main reason I picked Infinity over Warmachine as a third game is I can buy 10 models, and that's it, and just spend time slowly working on those 10 rather than have another bloody army to paint.
Still though, doctor will likely be the first worked on, since it'll go together easier. When I have some progress, I'll post some shots.
Haha yes I know the feeling mate, I am in exactly the same boat.
In between doing a Dwarf WFB army it's great to be able to lavish detail on individual minis and know that you don't have another 100 or so left on the workbench afterwards.
Please post some shots when you are able, I have an Infinity blog in the P&M section which could do with some company !
Yeah I never wash mine either, though it's probably a smart idea lol. Be forwarded that Infinity minitures are on the high end of the spectrum of difficulty to put together. However the end product is well worth it.
Oh my god, I need to clean the drool off my keyboard. That is exactly as I imagine an Infinity fight... with zombies. My brain can't handle shear awesome wrapped with zombies.
studderingdave wrote:which rulebook is the current rulebook i should be picking up? i know there are downloads but i like having a book in my hand.
is the human sphere expansion a neccesity?
Let me paste here this, it is from an old message for the same question, because I think it will be useful for you.
You can Download the complete PDF rules for free in the official Infinity website.Use this link.
You can also download the PDF Quickstart Rules made by Beasts of War. I strongly suggest to play your first games using just these rules, let the special habilities for the 2nd or 3rd game.
You can buy the rulebooks. Infinity has TWO rulebooks.
The First one, Infinity the Game, contains all the fluff from all the factions, all the rules and army lists.
The Second Book, Infinity: Human Sphere, is an expansion. It includes new troops, fluff and rules for all the existing armies, it brings the sectorial armies and a brand new army: ALEPH
This is the book that contains the Fireteam rule. IMHO the game got better after the expansion.
The difference between the books and the free PDF is that... the free rules are just the strictly necesary for playing, the books come with art and fluff. The infinity background is very detailed, some factions are much more than the miniatures. Its HUGE.
How many D20 dice are you ever going to need in Infinity? Because I'm about to take my first step into the realm of uncommonly-shaped dice, but I know that Infinity doesn't use that much dice, so I want a comfortable amount, but not an excess. I was thinking in the range of between 5 and 10, does this seem fitting?
GoldenKaos wrote:How many D20 dice are you ever going to need in Infinity? Because I'm about to take my first step into the realm of uncommonly-shaped dice, but I know that Infinity doesn't use that much dice, so I want a comfortable amount, but not an excess. I was thinking in the range of between 5 and 10, does this seem fitting?
The highest burst in Infinity is 5 dice. Maybe you can make a 6 dice roll if you get hit by an autocannon or a Viral Combi rifle full burst.
But I can't think of any case where you may need more than 5-6 dice, and those a pretty extreme cases. In fact, 4 is enough.
GoldenKaos wrote:I'm gonna get 7 because I like the number, plus there's a few left over to keep track of Orders.
4 really is enough much of the time. HMGs and Spitfires have a burst of 4 and are rather common heavy weapons.
Pretty much everyone has Rifles and those things are Burst 3.
As for keeping track of orders, most people just memorize it or use little tokens. Things get complicated when you have Impetuous, Irregular, or Religious troops.
Note that you may want to keep your number of orders secret from your opponent to hide your Lieutenant. Your Lieutenant gets an addition order for themselves and you don't have to (and usually should not) announce it when using it.
I merely mentioned the using of dice to keep track of orders because the rulebook suggests it. I think I can remember a descending single-digit number without needing a dice. XD
Bare in mind it's as much for your opponent as yourself though. Also, you can have quite a few breaks in between actually using orders, if you have some long skills going on, multiple ARO's, things like that.
Personally I think a little pile of tokens which you move to when side following an order is the ideal method.
Absolutionis wrote:4 really is enough much of the time. HMGs and Spitfires have a burst of 4 and are rather common heavy weapons. Pretty much everyone has Rifles and those things are Burst 3.
Never hurts to buy more though. Dice are constantly getting lost by skittering under things and disappearing, being left at the store, being eaten by vacuum cleaners, etc. Not to mention sometimes you're on one side of the table and need one more which is inconveniently on the other side of the table, under a stairway, which will knock that nice model on top off if you try to get it...
More dice is always good.
While I just about have my 200 point team, I still haven't started painting it (though I have started putting them together). Mostly because I want to start painting them when I have them all (and I'm still missing the Al Hawwa sniper my FLGS never has in stock and the two Nasmats) and also because I've been making a huge push to get my Tyranids at least painted to 1000 points.
Seriously considering a battlefoam infinity bag for them. At the moment they're in my 1520xl, and if I'm going to the FLGS to play a game of Infinity, I don't really want to lug that around.
Coordinated orders from two HMG models can roll a ton of dice. Have 10 handy, 4 one color, 4 another, and 2 a third. Makes rolling real simple when you can color-coordinate. Also, folks forget dice a lot and you'll often want 5 minimum, so with 10 you can lend your buddy a set.
I use D10s to count my orders, but whatever system you use you need to be clear with your opponent when and how you spend each order, and how many you have left. Otherwise disputes do seem to arise, as counting orders is such an important part of the game (gotta figure out who their Lt. is, right?).
Savnock wrote:Coordinated orders from two HMG models can roll a ton of dice.
As Burst values are halved in Co-ordinated shooting orders (see p148, assuming the PDF pg numbers match the proper one. Still waiting for the mailman to bring me a real copy... ), two HMG models in concert shouldn't be rolling more dice than a single one firing on their own.
That said, it is still possible to roll more dice in a co-ordinated order (e.g. three Rifle armed models shooting in unison would need 6 dice) than normal.
Extra dice also count for link teams.
The +1B means a HMG in the team (if leader) is rolling FIVE dice for BS attacks instead of 4 (and two in ARO).
I have about a dozen or 15 dice (d20s). About the same of d8, 10 and 12s.
I'm just using glass beads to count orders. The sort that magic players used back in the 90s for their "life points" (or whatever they used - I never played and never cared enough to learn).
Well the maximum number of dice you can roll at like 300pts is like 116 dice in a single order for a face to face roll, but that is kinda besides the point. The max any single model can roll is 5 at this time, so that is really the max you need.
Nice, and yeah it is rather X-Com like. I have always wanted to do an Infinity match where there is a ref and two tables that aren't able to see each other. One player is on one table the other is on the other. Players can't see each other's models untill there is LoS between them. Once LOS is attained the Ref places a mini on the player's table.
That is close as I can think to true fog of war x-com style.
That would be awesome, something similar to 1st edition 40k in fact.
Might be easily possible with a screen down the centre of the table? As way of explanation, there could be some kind of interference being caused that makes any kind of scanning technology useless.
In any case it might be able to replicate that wonderful (horrible?) feeling of x-com, where your guy steps around a corner, and a shot comes from the darkness instantly killing him
Haha cheers mate, that reminds me I should update it with all of the terrain I've been building. One great thing about having a low model count, it gives you more time to try and make a good terrain set.
Will definitely keep an eye out for your blog in any case!
Shooting is indeed incredibly lethal in Infinity. Certainly, I got my fingers burnt a few times just from the years of playing 40k. Yes my guy looks like a hard-ass stood in the open in the middle of a road, gun at his hip, shouting the rest of his troops forward. No actually, he's dead
I started painting a ghulam infantry to try and get my colour scheme down last night. I got the desert camo bodysuit done, but these models are very detailed. This is going to take time.
The detail is actually my favorite thing about Infinity miniatures. Anyone that has marginally discovered the usage of washes can paint a pretty good mini.
That being said, I've actually been rather afraid to paint my Ghulam or anyone with a bare face. All those years of painting helmeted 40k figures and monsters has left me looking at human faces as alien territory.
^Speaking of faces, I've heard good things about that DVD Privateer Press has that covers 'core painting techniques', and apparently face-painting is in it. I'm going to be watching that a couple of times before starting on any of my Infinity models.
Absolutionis wrote:The detail is actually my favorite thing about Infinity miniatures. Anyone that has marginally discovered the usage of washes can paint a pretty good mini. That being said, I've actually been rather afraid to paint my Ghulam or anyone with a bare face. All those years of painting helmeted 40k figures and monsters has left me looking at human faces as alien territory.
Definitely not saying it's not a good thing. But the last time I painted something this complex was my 3rd edition Salamanders and some Daemonhunter allies. Since then, I've been painting extremely simple Tyranids and moderately detailed Vampire Counts. Infinity is like having 10 characters. With more detail than GW puts on its character models. At a smaller scale.
I've just finished my 3 Ghulam models recently, link in my sig, and agree that they are super detailed. The face and hair was the hardest part of the model for me. I managed to get the hair looking ok, but the faces came out very gloomy since I had to use washes to supplement my paint collection. The thing that I get with the models though is that they are a feast on the eyes when finished - if you can manage to find all that detail. I've got Saladin in the mail, and I'm actively dreading trying to paint his cloak and armour.
Absolutionis wrote:The detail is actually my favorite thing about Infinity miniatures. Anyone that has marginally discovered the usage of washes can paint a pretty good mini.
That being said, I've actually been rather afraid to paint my Ghulam or anyone with a bare face. All those years of painting helmeted 40k figures and monsters has left me looking at human faces as alien territory.
Definitely not saying it's not a good thing. But the last time I painted something this complex was my 3rd edition Salamanders and some Daemonhunter allies. Since then, I've been painting extremely simple Tyranids and moderately detailed Vampire Counts. Infinity is like having 10 characters. With more detail than GW puts on its character models. At a smaller scale.
Completely new territory.
I found the same thing. My first model looked like it had been painted by a deranged baboon, with a mashed crayon wedged between its ass-cheeks.
Having just finished a marine army, I realised that I was almost going into a catatonic state and dribbling with a miniature and brush in my hand, whereas with the Infinity stuff my brain was actually having to take an active role in proceedings beyond simply motor control.
So my first result isn't very good, mostly because I didn't realize a couple of things (not least of which is I painted the arms as if they were part of the bodysuit, but they're meant to be bare).
She's going for a dettol swim and I'll take another stab at it.
Would've liked to see a shot of it anyway! Its good to get feedback on stuff, even if you are just gonna dip the thing again.
I find that the minis are tiny and have incredible detail, so when I screw up and paint things or miss things, it's my fault, not the miniature's. This is a nice change from the LoTR minis, which are tiny, but they tend to blend one bit of detail into the other, causing infuriating confusion where cloth stops and armor begins.
But the Infinity mini's are such high detail! I had fully painted my SAS dude, thought I was done, and then when I went to show him to my friend, I realized I had completely missed the gas-mask that was tied off on the guy's arm!
I know what you mean about the infinity detail. I just started my first couple and I get the feeling they are a make-or-break type of affair. If you finish painting them, you're definitely going to improve your painting. You can't not with that amount of tiny detail to work with!
Funny thing is I have see a lot of people jsut do simple base coats on parts of the models then hit it with washes and they still look great thanks to the wash getting in all the details.
Washes work a dream on Infinity models. My test model with desert camo used a simple method of prime grey, paint the areas to be desert camo Jack Bone, wash Gryphonne Sepia, layer some Jack Bone, then layer some Bleached Bone. Worked a treat, the wash really did the trick. I'll likely be changing it to Devlan Mud though, due to Gryphonne Sepia not giving quite enough definition. And because I like Devlan Mud.
It appears my local store has received their Al Hawwa snipers. I'll likely grab that and the nasmats this week, and have my 200 point force.
-Loki- wrote:Washes work a dream on Infinity models. My test model with desert camo used a simple method of prime grey, paint the areas to be desert camo Jack Bone, wash Gryphonne Sepia, layer some Jack Bone, then layer some Bleached Bone. Worked a treat, the wash really did the trick. I'll likely be changing it to Devlan Mud though, due to Gryphonne Sepia not giving quite enough definition. And because I like Devlan Mud.
Sure, I haven't stripped it yet. If I remember, I'll take a photo when I get home.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So my test model.
All kinds of fail. I tried a tan uniform for desert combat, which came out okay, but not quite defined enough. I might try a mix of Gryphonne Sepia with a touch of Devlan Mud for definition next time. I also didn't realize the arms should have been bare, and I have no idea why I thought the pockets on the thighs should be leather instead of the colour of the pants. I wear cargo pants enough. I know how they work. And the Devlan Mud on the pockets completely ruined the front.
Hah, you got the same model that I did. I ended up treating all of the pockets and the like as armour, which looks pretty decent. That technique you've got looks good - though I agree that devlan mud would make it pop a little more. I'd be interested to see how the finished model looks, especially the skin, as that was a nightmare for me.
I've been planning an Infinity board to go with my Haqqislam using Maxmini and Sarissa systems parts. The main thing I want to do it desert theme it, so I'll likely be going with a zuzzy mat. What size mat should I grab? Would a regluar 6x4 be too big?
Yes, although then you might have the rather over-bearing prospect of trying to cover a 6x4 board with dense terrain. I suppose a lot of it depends on whether you are just using a blank piece of wood as a base, or you are actually building some terrain into the base.
Although I suppose in that situation there would be nothing to stop you 'fencing off' the extra 2 feet or so of terrain.
++EDIT++ Loki, think that in purely technical terms that looks good. You have got nice shading, and I think a good colour for the pants, although I agree it should be one colour or the other for the pants (or else less contrast between the colours).
Just making some counters/templates. Rather than the MAS ones, which are rather expensive, i've just printed the ones provided for free on the forum (from the download section: http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity/downloads/markers/[en]Markers.pdf) onto glossy paper. I'm going to mount the smaller round ones onto Mantic Warpath round bases (which fit perfectly with printing straight from the PDF, and are just 1.50GBP for 10), and mount the flamer, smoke and explosion templates onto some 1.5mm plasticard. I'll post pics in my blog when they are done to show how they turned out!
Probably won't look as good as the official MAS ones, but saved me enough money for the Merovingian starter set when it comes.
Pacific wrote:Just making some counters/templates. Rather than the MAS ones, which are rather expensive, i've just printed the ones provided for free on the forum (from the download section: http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity/downloads/markers/[en]Markers.pdf) onto glossy paper. I'm going to mount the smaller round ones onto Mantic Warpath round bases (which fit perfectly with printing straight from the PDF, and are just 1.50GBP for 10), and mount the flamer, smoke and explosion templates onto some 1.5mm plasticard. I'll post pics in my blog when they are done to show how they turned out!
Probably won't look as good as the official MAS ones, but saved me enough money for the Merovingian starter set when it comes.
For the round templetes, I bought a 25 pack of CD for 3 bucks. Now I have all the smoke templetes I will ever need.
Hehe really that is unnecessary for the most part. Just place a GW base sized "smoke" marker at the center of the location you will place smoke and anytime the smoke might matter then place a template over it. You'll find that templates everywhere gets cluttered real fast, not to mention trying to balance them on terrain.
BlueDagger wrote:Hehe really that is unnecessary for the most part. Just place a GW base sized "smoke" marker at the center of the location you will place smoke and anytime the smoke might matter then place a template over it. You'll find that templates everywhere gets cluttered real fast, not to mention trying to balance them on terrain.
If i could found a 10 pack I would of bought that. But, I been known to use 4-5 smoke marker in a turn, it's my fav tactic with morlocks, then the killers move up or shoot through the smoke.
In the middle of building my Nasmats, and all I can say is I'm glad Infinity doesn't require multiples of models. These Nasmats, while they look adorable once built, are terrible to actually build.
I've seen less flash on a finecast model, and there's parts that are about 3mm wide and 1/4mm thick attached to pipes 2mm round. It's just a plain old nightmare building these.
Very, very difficult models to assemble. Gluing those arms and guns on, I've found, requires quite precise pinning to ensure durability for the rigors of gaming. These models are for sure not for beginners.
But they are amazingly detailed and awesome figures and a delight to paint. I love them all. Literally, I can't say any of the Infinity models I've bought so far suck. They are great miniatures and among the best out there right now.
But yes as coming from a space marine painter, the exposed flesh has required me to learn and practice how to paint realistic skin and eyes. It hasn't been easy, and several of my models have ended up looking psychotic, and some quite like The Joker.
Psychotic looking eyes works great for Space Marines, but not for these delicate figures. You want to take your time with them and put some energy into them. This is a good thing IMO coming from the perspective of a GW-oriented gamer, as trying to add character to your 50th marine is a dreary prospect, but adding character to your 2nd Infinity figure is a lot less fatiguing.
I'm really, really impressed with this line of models and also have found the game to be very good, although I've only played one game so far. Tomorrow I hope to play more!
I'm breaking a rule and not pinning mine. I've never been good at getting pinned limbs to line up properly. I can live with re-glueing and cleaning up occasionally. Some of the arms have been so thing I don't think I could even actually pin them.
Mate of mine has one, he pinned the feet to the base (using a resin 40mm base to make it easier) and discarded the base extensions because they looked naff.
He's like me - if you can pin a spear head to a spear shaft, pinning Infinity models is a piece of cake.
I use GS+superglue for most of mine. Only the larger pieces get pinned (TAGs).
-Loki- wrote:I'm breaking a rule and not pinning mine. I've never been good at getting pinned limbs to line up properly. I can live with re-glueing and cleaning up occasionally. Some of the arms have been so thing I don't think I could even actually pin them.
Consider using an extremely tiny bit of epoxy putty (I use Billy Mays's Mighty Putty!). I've found that even a small ball of epoxy as well as superglue ends up strong enough to hold up even a miniature on high heels.
I did that to attach the helmets to my infinity models. Just a dot of green stuff and super glue got the heads fixed on quickly. I did it because i didn't want to deform the green stuff helmet casts while drilling them. If you want a better look click on the link in my signature.
Biggest issue I'm having is models leaning on their guns, like the Fiday with Boarding Shotgun, Muyib with Spitfire and Al Hawwa sniper.
The Muyib with Spitfire isn't too bad, but the Fiday with Boarding shotgun ends up with about 0.5mm space between the base and the butt of the gun. The Al Hawwa is worse - there's a good 2mm clearance between the base and the sack the gun is leaning on.
It this a common issue? I can solve it easily with a wad of green stuff, but it seems like a strange oversight. Then again, these are the same guys that cast the Odalesque with Boarding Shotgun so you can't position it at all without cutting half of the right boob off.
Yes, that Odalisque is a famous (infamous?) miniature, I think the general consensus by most people was to file down her right chest a bit to get the gun to fit.
Shame as I think they are lovely looking models, and I love their special rules where special perfume pheremones overwhelm foes in close combat (really!)
I had that problem with the heights of feet. I was able to bend most of them back and i made one more prominent and modeled the mini walking down some stairs.
If you can't fix the models so they match up properly then you could add some terrain to the base like i did with the steps? Again, pictures are in the blog if you need a reference.
Owing to the fact that I'm an exceedingly slow painter, I'm trying yet another 'define it with washes' style. I'm going for the default Haqq look Corvus Belli do, just dirtier. Here's another test model - I'm actually happy with it post wash. I just need to do some layering and some highlights.
Something I'm planning on doing is making a 200pt list for another faction primarily to use as a way to get friends into the game, something for them to use in a game without needing to buy a team themselves. Most likely Nomads, because the Custodiers are gorgeous.
I actually spent all afternoon plugging away at that model. Quite happy with the results, bar the back of the legs, which I can't think of how to improve.
You did a great job on him, well done man! If you aren't happy with the backs of his legs how about giving them a very light drybrush of whatever colour you used before the wash?
Still needs a lot of work. The browns still need layering, the fatigues need their final Bleached Bone highlight, and I still need to do the metals and the hair.
My most irritating problems are fixing the back of the legs (though I think I know how I'll do it - painting them jack bone then highlighting the areas done with Jack Bone now should fix them) and the eyes.
Because I can't do eyes.
I know there's a way to 'cheat' and put a white dot on the outer side and innder side of the eyeball, which looks decent without actually painting the eye, but I have the most unsteady hands ever, and when I go to do something as small as an eye, I get really shakey hands.
I've found one alternative to getting really fine detail like irises, pupils or even eye glints done is using a hard point to dot the paint - something like a sewing needle (which end you need will vary) - rather than a brush. This can make it a lot easier to get the paint right where you want it.
But I do suggest persevering. Getting eyes "sorted" is very confidence inspiring, as improvements to painting a focal area like the face have a very dramatic effect overall.
I should note that the last time I painted skin was on a Daemonhunter about 10 years ago and that did not include the face. The last time I put effort into a face was... I think Fabius Bile in 2nd edition 40k?
So considering I haven't really painted a face in what, 15 years? I'm pretty happy with what I did there. I just wish I could do eyes. I even have trouble just doing plain yellow eyes on my Tyranids.
@chromedog: It is true that such details aren't usually visible from normal eye-to-tabletop distances, but when you've only got a few models to do, they're not monotonous near-clones of each other and they're such sumptuously detailed pieces like Infinity's range, it is an excuse to apply more effort.
This is part of the reason why my games of choice include Inquisitor (at both 28mm and 54mm) and Infinity, even though I don't get to play either that often - I can spend the extra time.
Eyes are quite the challenge to be sure. Painting some infinity, I've challenged myself to do it. What works for me is to first paint the face whatever tone you want then apply a wash. Then I take a darker wash, usually devlan mud and apply it to the eyes.
Next I use a very thin application of an off-white color, not pure white as I've found it to be a little too intense. You need a fine, high quality brush to get good results and it's tricky. If I don't get the proportion of the eyes right, I correct it with just a tad more devlan mud.
Next Ive been actually coloring the eyes with blue or something, but this really isn't necessary as mentioned before, these details aren't really visible unless under close scrutiny.
You can actually "cheat" at this point with a very fine tipped art pen. I use micron 0.1 Sakura ink pens, and it's a little easier to get a black dot with this to finish the eyes, instead of a brush.
MarcoSkoll wrote:@chromedog: It is true that such details aren't usually visible from normal eye-to-tabletop distances, but when you've only got a few models to do, they're not monotonous near-clones of each other and they're such sumptuously detailed pieces like Infinity's range, it is an excuse to apply more effort.
Pretty much this. My two other armies are Tyranids and Vampire Counts, both horde armies. I need to cut corners if I want to have a painted army some time in the next century. Infinity however, I have a 'complete' list sitting on my desk of 10 guys. So I'm pushing myself to try a but harder.
MarcoSkoll wrote:@chromedog: It is true that such details aren't usually visible from normal eye-to-tabletop distances, but when you've only got a few models to do, they're not monotonous near-clones of each other and they're such sumptuously detailed pieces like Infinity's range, it is an excuse to apply more effort.
Pretty much this. My two other armies are Tyranids and Vampire Counts, both horde armies. I need to cut corners if I want to have a painted army some time in the next century. Infinity however, I have a 'complete' list sitting on my desk of 10 guys. So I'm pushing myself to try a but harder.
Yes I'm trying to do the same - my last army was an Infantry Horde IG list, which I'm sure you can imagine was less than enthralling even with short-cuts and batch painting! It's nice painting a mini knowing that I never have to do that style sculpt again, and can put lots of effort into it.
So, that Ghulam is done. Or as done as it's going to get. Eyes suck, I fixed up the back of the pants, and realized I liked the browns how they were without adding some layering to them.
MarcoSkoll wrote:@chromedog: It is true that such details aren't usually visible from normal eye-to-tabletop distances, but when you've only got a few models to do, they're not monotonous near-clones of each other and they're such sumptuously detailed pieces like Infinity's range, it is an excuse to apply more effort.
This is part of the reason why my games of choice include Inquisitor (at both 28mm and 54mm) and Infinity, even though I don't get to play either that often - I can spend the extra time.
@Marko: It's mainly NOT a "not visible from such distances" it's a NOT VISIBLE TO ME at painting distance. This has two root causes:
1. Eyesight. I CANNOT focus on something that small (28mm mini eyes) at less than 75 or so cm (arms' reach). Who paints at arms' reach? The error magnification at that range makes it impossible (the slightest wrong move is amplified) - I might as well paint with my eyes closed. Which leads me to: 2. I have nerve damage in my left (painting) hand. It causes tremors and makes the painting of 28mm eyes IMPOSSIBLE. I could paint them, but then they would look all BESM/Kawaii (or permanently surprised) and I would have to dispose of them in a fire (I loathe Big Eyes Small Mouth anime in all its forms - and furries).
So it's not a question of me not applying myself. It's one of diminishing returns. I could try harder, but it makes no positive difference. A man's got to know his limitations - and mine include not being able to paint insignificant detail at 28mm. You might (and probably are different. Bully for you. I can't get better (over 25 years of trying has shown me the truth of the adage: Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.) hence I don't bother.
Now, 54mm is a different piscatorial vessel (kettle of fish). The eyes are around 4x the area. THESE are visible to me at painting distance (30-40cm) AND in FOCUS. They are large enough that the tremors don't have as noticeable an effect on them. These get painted - not well enough to compete in painting competitions, but well enough for me (they're my mandollies, after all, and ONLY my opinion counts on them as only I have to like them. I don't paint for other people's appreciation. It's a selfish thing for me alone.).
My inquisitor models sit on a shelf in a cupboard though, having not been played with in around 8 years - and unlikely to ever again be played with. Nobody around here WANTS to play the game and I don't want to play Necroquisitor. I've given up on the whole 40k schtick. I'm not selling them and should I tire of them, I'll melt them down.
chromedog wrote:It's mainly NOT a "not visible from such distances" it's a NOT VISIBLE TO ME at painting distance.
Well, that's an important difference. Your previous post read more like a general statement that there's no point in doing eyes for tabletop models, and versus that point, I disagree - when you've only got a few models, they should merit more than a "who cares" attitude to their painting. Indeed, I prefer games with few models as it means I don't have to apply such indifference to my painting.
But if it's more a case that you can't rather than won't, then that's (as you put it) a different piscatorial vessel.
Eyes kinda make or break a model to me. Luckily I've kinda got them down.
- paint them white
- do a very watered and light wash of badab black
- after fully dry hit the inner part of the ey white again if its too dark
- put a dot of color for the iris
I have to be honest, doing eyes is always a bit of a lottery for me - generally I will have 2 or 3 mistakes (which result in me having to go over it) until I get it right. Even then, often it is more luck than judgement. I do think that it's amusing that I once read a similar discussion on the FoW website, about painting eyes on 15mm infantry
Cat eyes:
I second using badab black, or even a very light grey for the eyes themselves. Having a bright white can make them look like they are bulging out of the head
I usually just do the eyes grey/white and don't bother with pupils or iris because everytime I attempt doing it I screw up. So far I've been to intimidated to actually start painting my Infinity minis! They are so finely proportioned I am afraid it will be a real challenge for me.
Regarding OP, I oddly first got into it because it reminded me of Mass Effect.
Since picking up my first figures and both books, I have quickly become a fan of the setting, and plan on expanding both the number of armies I have and numbers for them over the coming year.
Here is what I'm working on at the mo, my initial forces. Just got them pretty much to Stage two, just need more detailing work, and final highlights.
Hindenburg wrote:So far I've been to intimidated to actually start painting my Infinity minis! They are so finely proportioned I am afraid it will be a real challenge for me.
They take to GW washes insanely well. It's how I've come to paint recently with my Tyranids, and it transferred well to Infinity. For my Haqq, I basically prime them (I prefer grey, as it's not as bright as white and I can actually see details unlike with a black prime), block in the colours (tan fatigues, camo green armour, vermin brown leathers and wood, black for anything that will be a metallic, dwarf flesh skin), then hit them with devlan mud. It brings out the details really, really well. Then just layer up the colours.
While I'm trying to do more detail on them than normal, the basics of getting the main colours down doesn't change.
I mean, they make sense when you read them, until you start getting into "Phase 1, Phase 2, Phase 3".
Also, what does a Cube do? I haven't been able to find it in the book anywhere.....
I must say though, I do like the ARO/Face To Face roll thingamajiggers. It keeps it fun and active. Haven't played a game yet, but that's because I can't convince my dad to play as the Skirts for my PanO to crush.
The only time Cube matters in gameplay is that units without cubes are immune to the Sepsistor, the Combined Army's scary mind-control weapon.
Other than that, it's mostly something you can ignore.
As people have suggested, one of the best ways to learn the game is to watch the intro videos by Corvus Belli and Beasts of War. Then grab a friend and play a game.
Also, what does a Cube do? I haven't been able to find it in the book anywhere.....
I must say though, I do like the ARO/Face To Face roll thingamajiggers. It keeps it fun and active. Haven't played a game yet, but that's because I can't convince my dad to play as the Skirts for my PanO to crush.
In terms of game rules, not a lot. They function as a personality backup and are supposed to have a place in rules for campaign games - it's a form of immortality. With a cube, dead isn't necessarily dead dead. Essentially, if you are 'killed' and have a cube, they can upload you into a new body and you can come back for the next game. If not, you're DEAD DEAD, and out for the count.
Several weapons in the game can wipe or otherwise disrupt the cube (these have been declared as "illegal" weapons by O-12 (future UN with balls) as they can render you dead dead. Certain missions may have VP penalties for using them within LoF of a given individual or location.
So what do you guys think; should I try to make a smallish game table before I head off to college, or wait to see what the group there has? Never made a table before....
Makes all the difference. 6 months, you have the time, you might as well make one. 3 months, still enough time, so go for it. Next month? It can wait until you have time. You could probably ASSEMBLE the parts and leave it until you can get back to it.
Definitely second watching those intro vids. It might also be useful to use this guide for quick start from Beasts of War Infinity Week. I used this along with just 3 models a side (standard guys with rifles) just to get some idea of how the game mechanics work. You're right, it is a lot more involved than most other games! Chiefly remembering to do stuff during your opponents turn, I think I had become hard-wired into entering a kind of stupor during that time
Regarding Cubes, I believe they may become more relevant with the new missions/campaign book. At the moment, the only experience I have had of them is seeing someone being controlled by nasty CA and their voodoo technology (so more of a negative rather than a benefit!)
Third watching the videos, they are unbelievably informative! There are a lot but put them on next time you are painting or something and the time will fly by.
Would anyone have interest in me posting up a quickstart guide to Infinity Terrain? I have trees, buildings, and cargo palettes that I feel I have perfected at this point. Once you buy the materials in bulk they are rather dirt cheap as well.
Thanks for the tips on painting these minis fellas. Infinity figs are really great.
Speaking off terrain Infinity is a great motivator to start creating some off your own since it requires A LOT of terrain. I've even made some myself.
And BlueDagger, I think a quickstart guide is a great idea. The amount of terrain needed/recommended for Infinity can seem quite daunting so a guide of this sort is a good idea for people interested in Infinity.
Makes all the difference. 6 months, you have the time, you might as well make one. 3 months, still enough time, so go for it. Next month? It can wait until you have time. You could probably ASSEMBLE the parts and leave it until you can get back to it.
August is when I go, so about five months. Though I don't know what kind of terrain I should use; blocks or stairs or sumtin?
My first games were large textbook and DVD-box 'buildings' and scattered pen/pencil 'fences'. Just ensure that there are no clear fire-lanes where a camped sniper/HMG will have dominion over the entire board.
It would be really good if someone would set up a terrain thread to continue the discussion. The more quality threads the better while we are trying to entice people into he community.
What I've always thought is that there should be some kind of 'newbie blueprint' for an Infinity battlefield, because getting the right mix of cover-granting terrain, LoS blocking terrain, high ground/sniper nests and so on is something that can make or break a first-time gamer's enjoyment of the game. I'm reminded of quite a few people on forums who have been turned away by Infinity because they hadn't put down enough LoS-blocking terrain and they went away saying that ARO's were OP. Others didn't put down enough cover-save type terrain, and T.A.G.s ruled the firelanes, and others still put a tall tower in the deployment zones, and then complained that snipers were OP.
I haven't played a single game of Infinity, and one of the things that stops me from press-ganging my little brother into having a very basic matches with me are my concerns that my terrain set-up will cause some game mechanics to be broken.
The thing is i wouldn't expect anyone to write that out in a thread for me, not even on the official forums, especially when i don't appear to have done any research myself. Then again your much nicer than normal people IJW! 
, well I guess the only good thing about this particular post, is that it may encourage the 
Sorry, what? Which website? Dakka? Your account says you joined in 2010?!?.....more posts, doesn't mean longer duration....it just means you post alot.
NOMADS
INTERVENTOR Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife (26 | 0.5)
MOV:4-4 CC:13 BS:11 PH:10 WIP:15 ARM:1 BTS:-3 W:1
TSYKLON Spitfire, Marker / Electric Pulse (37 | 1)
LUNOKHOD Boarding Shotgun, Heavy Flamethrower, CrazyKoalas (2) / Electric Pulse (29)
REAKTION ZOND HMG, Antipersonnel Mines / Electric Pulse (28 | 1)
VERTIGO ZOND Guided Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse (34 | 1)
2x SALYUT Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse (21)
CLOCKMAKER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife (18)
4x ZONDBOT Electric Pulse (3)
HAQQISLAM
GHULAM Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife (13)
MUYIB Spitfire, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife (31 | 1)
FIDAY Boarding Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, EXP CCW (34)
HAWWA' Sniper Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife (29 | 0.5)
), two 
