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Post by: winterdyne
Today I went to get that nice limited edition marine. Always loved the rogue trader cover, and feel like doing one of these for GD. And it's been my birthday. Wanted a new toy of my own, as opposed to commission stuff.
Asked a staffer when I walk into Warhammer World what the casting rate is like on them. 100%, I'm told they're told. Heh.
Anyway, bought and OPENED IN STORE. First impressions were good, but it turns out the bottom of one of the greaves was borked, and the resin scenic base has a real thin spot. There was probably more, but store lighting at WHW is dire.
So, I go up to the counter. 'Can I have this replaced please?' (holding just the marine).
'No, sorry you have to go through customer services, 'cos it's limited edition.'
'That's awkward'
'Yeah, we know, sorry.'
I take a look at the fairly long queue... 'Can I have a full refund then please?'
'Yes, of course'.
'Cool, can I spend the refund immediately on another marine please?'
'Uhm, yess...'
'Bit of a pointless policy that then, isn't it?'
So, long story short, the second one comes out and seems to be cast better. Looking at it at home though, there's a fair few bubbles I didn't notice. Time to begin the replacements cycle. I've emailed off the pics below. I could probably fix all of these in a couple of hours' work, but for a £20 SINGLE FIGURE MODEL, I ain't gonna. These are just some of the bubbles too, there's a lot more on the base (mostly very easy fixes, so not of any concern).
So I'm going through the CS mill anyway it seems. Stupid Finecast.
As this is part of the process of getting the mini done, I'm including this stuff in the WIP log for everyone's general amusement.
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Post by: TungstenMonkey
Thats pretty dire for a limited edition model, you'd assume they'd make sure they where mint condition ... glad i didn't order one in advance (O_o)
Good luck with the replacement of the replacement 
T-M
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Post by: The_Stormrider
That is disheartening and frustrating in the extreme. Honestly, it's a joke that they won't even ensure a limited edition model is in acceptable condition before boxing it for sale.
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Post by: kenshin620
Once again, finecast has shown to be a gamble
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Post by: rigeld2
What a joke. I'm sorry for your loss.
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Post by: The Duke of Vandals
OK so this scares the crap outta me. I bought one as a advance order. If it looks even half as bad as yours Im gonna bumrush customer service like the wrath of khorne.
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Post by: Rayvon
It does take the **** if they cannot even get the 25th anniversary marine right.
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Post by: Sidstyler
I own about 20 Finecast models. 15 Dark Eldar incubi, a haemonculus, Lelith, a lhamaean, a medusae, and Trazyn the Infinite. Everything but the haemonculus and Lelith looks kinda like what you have pictured there. I've tried fixing a couple of the models and even if it is possible, it's really tedious (I've spent more time assembling Finecast than metal models because of the defects in them), taking a couple hours as you said, and it's not really worth it considering how expensive the models are. This isn't what a $30, limited edition single figure should look like, even at half the price that's unacceptable. I'd say it's a joke but Finecast is already something of a running joke as it is so it goes without saying.
I'd have liked to get one of these models myself, but I'm not a big Space Marine fan, haven't been around since the Rogue Trader days so the anniversary celebration/nostalgia factor isn't really there, and because I fully expected to have to deal with the same problems that every other Finecast model has, and I'm sad to see I was right. Even for a limited edition release with a boasted 100% casting rate, GW doesn't give a feth.
Looking forward to your progress on this nonetheless...mostly out of morbid curiosity as to whether or not you ever receive an acceptable replacement to actually begin the project.
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Post by: The Duke of Vandals
Sidstyler, if that many of your minis are defective Im fairly sure you can call customer services and ask (demand) replacements.
But on another note, I cant bring myself to totally hate failcast. Yes its expensive. Yes the quality control at this point is a joke. But when you get a good finecast mini, it really is outstanding. Im currently working on a conversion using Helbrecht model as a base. The $h!t Im doing to that mini would be impossible on the metal one. The quality control being terrible on something like a limited edition mini is really a huge shame. GW is really shooting themselves in the foot here, cause finecast could have really set them apart from their rivals. Instead they half-assed it. What a shame.
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Post by: Great White
Way to go GW.
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Post by: Sidstyler
The Duke of Vandals wrote:Sidstyler, if that many of your minis are defective Im fairly sure you can call customer services and ask (demand) replacements.
Well, I did. I got more gakky models. So I'm not buying it anymore. 
Maybe when they start using the whole ass I'll start buying it again...though I'm sure by that point the price will have gone up once or twice more and it won't be worth buying anyway.
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Post by: Emerett
Spend your money on WarmaHordes instead, the models are always pristine.
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Post by: Ekoi
Emerett wrote:Spend your money on WarmaHordes instead, the models are always pristine.
Now now, don't be that guy.
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Post by: CT GAMER
Ekoi wrote:Emerett wrote:Spend your money on WarmaHordes instead, the models are always pristine.
Now now, don't be that guy.
Yes, don't be a guy that enjoys quality and value for one's dollar...
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Post by: coyotius
It's Brother-Captain Stern all over again, huh Winterdyne? Getting mine on the 28th supposedly. Anyone aware of any rituals or warding signs I should make at the mailbox?
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Post by: The Duke of Vandals
CT GAMER wrote:Ekoi wrote:Emerett wrote:Spend your money on WarmaHordes instead, the models are always pristine.
Now now, don't be that guy.
Yes, don't be a guy that enjoys quality and value for one's dollar...
By all means, play what game you like. But Ive been apart of this hobby for the better part of my life. I love the fluff, I love the minis, and I love the game. I am however getting into hordes too. Its a fun game. But Im tired of hordes players scoffing when they see my angels, and talking down to me, like I somehow cant play both.
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Post by: heartserenade
I haven't bought much FW stuff, but my question is is the number of bubbles comparable to Finecast?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
...and belated happy birthday to you, winterdyne!
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Post by: coyotius
In my experience FW doesn't suffer from as many voids (bubbles) due to pressure casting. However, FW's problems are pulling the cast early, which causes warping, or getting sloppy when mating the mold halves...which causes offset details.
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Post by: Crazyterran
My 25th Anniversary was cast perfectly, as far as i can tell from what i've looked.
Main problem is going to be geting into the mood to paint a crimson fists guy, not to mention the head, and such...
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Post by: Chaplain Cy
I got mine, perfect cast.
Sucks for you dude ;/
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Post by: Breotan
coyotius wrote:In my experience FW doesn't suffer from as many voids (bubbles) due to pressure casting. However, FW's problems are pulling the cast early, which causes warping, or getting sloppy when mating the mold halves...which causes offset details.
I've had a hell of a time with Forge World kits being warped. They also have their share of bubbles and "spooges" where extra resin forms a blob that obscures some detail. At least you can take Finecast back to a GW store if you've one close by and get it exchanged. Forge World takes a bit longer to get stuff straightened out.
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Post by: HAZZER
I've had the same problem too! But have yet to replace it! I've been told (fromGW) that they will ahve a look at it and if its a misscast (What they will class a rubbish-sorry misscast I don't know) they will replace it, but that I dout.  Btw was your clear box which holds the min in not fully vacum formed too?  But luckerly I got two (one for me and one for eaby) so if the buyer got the misscast on I'd probally have to nock off £10 or more!  Back to topic, was your problem only air bubbles? Do you have holes in the rock part also? Got to admit the detail on that rock bit is amazing!  One final question, what are you assembling yours as? Ie- small or large base?
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Post by: The_Stormrider
I picked up my anniversary models. I only opened one of them and it was in very good shape all things considered. There was a hole on part of the banner pole but thankfully it will be easily filled. Some warping as well but it fixed easily with hot water. Is it strange to feel lucky that your model was only slightly messed up?? 
I wonder how they'll resolve these issues if the model is really limited edition. I find it hard to believe they stockpiled a bunch just in case of miscast versions.
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Post by: winterdyne
It'll be the large base for display / golden demon for me.
If I get a decent replacement I may use this one for a gaming piece, magnetising the captain so the rest of the base could be an objective marker.
I dunno, we'll see.
Hazzer- your sprue is seriously warped - is that backpack alright? It looks... off.
I have no idea how they'll handle replacements.
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Post by: The Duke of Vandals
Im happy to see the parts i didnt like about the model (the helm and the ork head are separate. I bought the thing for the sole purpose of making a mold of that awesome powerfist and turning the rock and flag into a objective marker.
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Post by: CaptainRavenclaw
I've got one coming in the post, I hope it doesn't have too many bubbles. Looking forward to your updates and hopefully story of customer service redemption??
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Post by: coyotius
Breotan wrote:coyotius wrote:In my experience FW doesn't suffer from as many voids (bubbles) due to pressure casting. However, FW's problems are pulling the cast early, which causes warping, or getting sloppy when mating the mold halves...which causes offset details.
I've had a hell of a time with Forge World kits being warped. They also have their share of bubbles and "spooges" where extra resin forms a blob that obscures some detail. At least you can take Finecast back to a GW store if you've one close by and get it exchanged. Forge World takes a bit longer to get stuff straightened out.
I believe the "spooges" are from bubbles or tears in the mold rather than air in the resin, but yeah, due to shipping time it does take longer to get a replacement from FW.
Its strange that the outcry over fincast hasn't generated some sort of response like blastscape back when planetstrike came out. Remember that? They painted the resin masters for display but sold vacuum formed versions to customers?
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Post by: brainscan
yikes, with all the shennanigans of the birthday events i didnt get round to checking mine. If it does have defects i shall be calling customers service (as the store had only 20 models) and they all were sold in less than 10mins from opening.
My experience with finecast is previously with internet only models like the lammasu and the great taurus. Both had some really large defects (bubbles, missing detail, the usual faults). I took them to local GW and was told to fix with green stuff. So i called customer services and they sent me out replacements within 2 days. Fortunately they were much better, otherwise i would have been asking for replacements. Automatically Appended Next Post: coyotius wrote:
Its strange that the outcry over fincast hasn't generated some sort of response like blastscape back when planetstrike came out. Remember that? They painted the resin masters for display but sold vacuum formed versions to customers?
Yes that was shocking, i called GW customer services and got £20 worth of credit as my blastscapes were paper thin and damaged in postage.
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Post by: MiLkiT
+1
Did they even look at these?? Its freaking unbelievable, Finecast my A$$. This was my first Finecrap mini I've ever purchased. 20 Years of GW for me and I've never seen such terrible craftsmanship! I waited a long time since they released this stuff, then got this crap handed to me. First and last for me.
Can you spot the Fail?
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
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Post by: The_Stormrider
On the upside that fail montage with the disapproving models might be my favorite version of effectively channeled fincast rage yet. Kudos to you sir, and kudos again.
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Post by: heartserenade
Er, change it into battle damage? That's really effed up. If it were me I would most likely just save the fist with GS and cut everything to combine with other kits for conversion.
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Post by: MiLkiT
heartserenade wrote:Er, change it into battle damage? That's really effed up. If it were me I would most likely just save the fist with GS and cut everything to combine with other kits for conversion.
Actually that's a pretty good idea, he might make a cool fight seen diorama
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Post by: coyotius
Surely someone could be motivated to start a Fincast Fail-A-Day blog...independant of Dakka or other forums where people could submit images of their bad products. I think threads on these larger sites or single person blogs tend to get lost in the shuffle
I agree with a previous comment that a class action lawsuit would be a bad move but this situation has been going on for what? Almost a year now? Sure there are good casts being made and sent out but as a community what is an acceptable failure rate?
The vanguard vets in this thread turned my stomach:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1110/414690.page
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Post by: The Duke of Vandals
The_Stormrider wrote:On the upside that fail montage with the disapproving models might be my favorite version of effectively channeled fincast rage yet. Kudos to you sir, and kudos again.
+10 internets, sir. Helpful farseer and disapproving necron made me laugh for a good minute.
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Post by: MiLkiT
The Duke of Vandals wrote:The_Stormrider wrote:On the upside that fail montage with the disapproving models might be my favorite version of effectively channeled fincast rage yet. Kudos to you sir, and kudos again.
+10 internets, sir. Helpful farseer and disapproving necron made me laugh for a good minute.
Thank you kind Sirs, I love the name Disapproving Necron! I think that will stick hehe. You might not have seen the last of him, If I finsih my dual entry in time
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Post by: Crazyterran
On closer look, the banner and such does have very thin areas if held up to a light, but other than that (and going over it again with a magnifying glass), not much i can do / complain about.
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Post by: heartserenade
MiLkiT wrote:heartserenade wrote:Er, change it into battle damage? That's really effed up. If it were me I would most likely just save the fist with GS and cut everything to combine with other kits for conversion.
Actually that's a pretty good idea, he might make a cool fight seen diorama
I actually have done this twice on two Sword brethren models. One had a derpy face and several bubbles on the shoulder pads and very bent sword. The other had several bubbles on both arms, legs and a HUGE bubble on its face that no one can fix short of resculpting. So for the first one I did a head swap and also changed the sword, then with my hobby knife turned the bubbles into battle damage. Same with the other one, only I hid the nasty bubbles with a shield on one hand and changed completely the other hand.
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Post by: winterdyne
No, just no. 'Call it battle damage' is NOT a solution.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Progress: I received an email from CS this morning, a replacement is on the way. I do really feel for the guys at CS, they have to deal with a ton of gak from a lot of folks (many of whom I'm willing to bet are far less polite than me). They do now, and always have done a sterling job.
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Post by: The Duke of Vandals
winterdyne wrote:No, just no. 'Call it battle damage' is NOT a solution.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Progress: I received an email from CS this morning, a replacement is on the way. I do really feel for the guys at CS, they have to deal with a ton of gak from a lot of folks (many of whom I'm willing to bet are far less polite than me). They do now, and always have done a sterling job.
Yeah I think if anything the CS guys prolly want to lead the riot of players that are pissed about finecast. All this must have increased their workload tenfold. Classic GW halfassing it. If they hired some guys to actually inspect the minis before they are sent out then they wouldnt be getting raked over the coals on the net.
Ive said it before and I stand by it. Finecast is a joy to work with. Beats the pants off metal and it puts detal on plastic to shame. This could have been the thing that helped cement GW as the leader. Instead people are afraid to buy it cause of the horror stories they have heard and the fact that they are even more expensive then the normal models.
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Post by: Mr. Burning
Whats limited about a finecast mini with defects?
Hope you can polish this one winterdyne.
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Post by: Spaced
The detail on finecast is superb, but I don't think it's worth the trade-off. Spending so much on a model demands they should have done quality control first before releasing finecast, not using their loyal customers as guinea pigs.....the number of warped power swords and snapped chainswords is dire. They snap so easily in a GW case, I'm talking after 1 day in a case, and by that point you can't return them......
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Post by: Sonophos
3 words: fit for purpose.
If it has bubbles and faults it is not fit for my collection and I ask for a new one that does not have faults. If I don't get one I want a double refund because I don't get my intended use out of it.
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Post by: HAZZER
winterdyne wrote:It'll be the large base for display / golden demon for me.
If I get a decent replacement I may use this one for a gaming piece, magnetising the captain so the rest of the base could be an objective marker.
I dunno, we'll see.
Hazzer- your sprue is seriously warped - is that backpack alright? It looks... off.
I have no idea how they'll handle replacements.
The backpack seems fine atm, but ain't going to remove it just incase I can't get a replacement. But the SM haed and backpack are fine, funny there the only things which are ok!
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Post by: Pilgrim Argyllian
I received two in the post today. Just sent this email to GW CS, I tried to be cheerful, because no doubt they have had bucketloads of complaints today, perhaps they'd prefer if I kept it short instead but oh well. One model's neck guard had quite a hole in it along with other mis casts, whereas the other just had several minor issues. If it were a box of ork Boyz I wouldn't worry, but this is designed to be a display piece.
Dear gamesworkshop customer support person,
I understand in your job you must deal with many grumpy people, to this end, I have tried to focus on the positive in my complaint. I ordered two of the 25th anniversary 40k model, and both arrived on time today. Unfortunately the casting is not completely up to standard in all regards.
The first character sprue appears fine, the neck guard is thin but not punctured like the other. The sides of the head are well aligned rather than the raised eyebrow expression I am given by my other purchase. The backpack is also perfectly formed, lacking the bubbles and gaps in vents seen upon his brethren. I also notice that his tailor is better, his heel lacking the unsightly bubble seen upon the other model.
Unfortunately the great scenic bases of both models have some imperfections. The detail of the helmet on the first is lost, as the eye blends with the cheek and the lump on the side is replaced with a large bubble accompanied by some smaller ones. On the other there are some small missing spots, nothing too dreadful, but on a model of such calibre small imperfections are somewhat disappointing. There are again some bubbles in the space marine helmet on ground.
As for the banners, the first model's "cross bar" is distinctly warped with with an air bubble in the end of it. The tassels hanging from this bar in front of the banner seem messy, certainly compared to those pictured on the box, although I do understand the difficulties in casting such fine detail. The second banner pole is far straighter and the detail is better than the first, although it shares an unsightly indentation along its reverse, which I would describe as "reverse mould line".
I understand that modelling is an important part of the hobby, and I have spent many hours removing mould lines over the past 13 years, but removing small casting imperfections is not the same as replacing parts that are not there and trying to reconstruct missing detail. There are little extra bits of resin to be removed across the model which I have no problem doing however, I feel the cost and significance of this model raise expectations of quality. One shouldn't have to spend time fixing bubbles and other imperfections on such a costly miniature. Your business is built upon detail and perfection and unfortunately both these models have fallen short of your own high standards.
I can provide pictures of the models if required, although that may have to wait until tomorrow for some better daylight. I do hope you are not having too rough a day, and thank you for reading my babbling. I hope to hear from you soon,
Your's Sincerely
Jim.
Would I be better off calling as well?
EDIT: DAMN COBBLERS MAKE SHOES NOT TAILORS.
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Post by: winterdyne
I think you're generally better of with:
'Hi, my model is miscast. Here are pictures [attached, cropped, showing faults clearly], please send a replacement to [address]'. Anything else simply isn't needed. 10-1 you get a response requesting pictures. It's not the delay in getting replacements sent out that's the issue (GW's customer service is superb, and really quite efficient) it's the fact that the replacements are handled as a new order process, so the chance of you getting a decent cast is the same as it was in the first place. ie, not very good.
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Post by: Pilgrim Argyllian
You're probably right. Although I wanted to make it seem as if there is somebody behind each of these requests, stop it being "we received 2000 replacement requests this week" rather than "2000 customers were dissatisfied", an attempt to stop it being so systematic. Looking forward to seeing how your replacement goes.
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Post by: MiLkiT
Update! I just got off the phone with CS. They told me that they would mail me a shipping label so I could send it back to them. After they have inspected it they will send me a replacement.
I asked what are the chances the second one will be perfect and I wont have to send it back? After a long awkward moment of silence he said.. well we ship a lot of finecast and its a lot of stuff for quality control to inspect.... Metal models and plastics have flaws too....he just BS me more WTF. So I say well if I get a second model and that's messed up too, can I get my money back? Well we'll talk about that when you get it, WTF! I started to get angry  now... Very angry  WTF is this garbage!!!.. I just got off the phone so my rage wouldn't consume me!
I guess i'm going to try sending them an angry email with pictures of this crap. I just can't believe what has happened to this once great company, Damn corporate whoring:(
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Post by: HAZZER
Guys does anybody have a GW CS number or link to hand please?
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Post by: coyotius
MiLkiT wrote:Update! I just got off the phone with CS. They told me that they would mail me a shipping label so I could send it back to them. After they have inspected it they will send me a replacement.
I asked what are the chances the second one will be perfect and I wont have to send it back? After a long awkward moment of silence he said.. well we ship a lot of finecast and its a lot of stuff for quality control to inspect.... Metal models and plastics have flaws too....he just BS me more WTF. So I say well if I get a second model and that's messed up too, can I get my money back? Well we'll talk about that when you get it, WTF! I started to get angry now... Very angry WTF is this garbage!!!.. I just got off the phone so my rage wouldn't consume me!
I guess i'm going to try sending them an angry email with pictures of this crap. I just can't believe what has happened to this once great company, Damn corporate whoring:(
I haven't dealt with Finecast yet...my first one will be this model (arriving tomorrow). Is it now standard practice to send the miniature back? Or is this a special case because of the limited nature of the mini? I've seen the necron overlord blog where the guy has all 8-10 bad castings, so obvious he didn't have to send them back.
I can only hope that as more armies get finecast releases and see older metal minis replaced with resin this situation will actually get worse! This will have to reach a critical mass before anything gets done. CS has been dealing with complaints for a year now so obviously we're still well within GW's acceptable complaint limit. Can't wait for all the fun when the Gamesday mini gets released and folks in the long queue start demanding the mini be opened on the spot for inspection!
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Post by: winterdyne
Pilgrim Argyllian wrote:You're probably right. Although I wanted to make it seem as if there is somebody behind each of these requests, stop it being "we received 2000 replacement requests this week" rather than "2000 customers were dissatisfied", an attempt to stop it being so systematic. Looking forward to seeing how your replacement goes.
I used to work in customer support (for PC's). My favourite customers were the ones that got straight to the point (politely). I didn't need to know (for example) what they were trying to burn to CD or why, simply that it wasn't working. A 10 minute discussion on their wedding day photography simply hurt my call times and my 'phone fix' quota for the day (and therefore my bonus).
MiLkiT: No need to get cross with the CS guys. Remember their calls are probably monitored, so they really can't tell you anything but the party line. Where they can't think of a sensible (and approved) answer, they're forced to use a deflection like you describe. Sad but true. Saying 'er, your chance of getting a good cast really isn't very good, expect to do this a few times' will just get them fired.
Hazzer: The CS number is: +44 (0) 115 9140000. Email is: orders@games-workshop.co.uk
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Post by: coyotius
Winterdyne, since you've worked CS, would you say that polite requests generated as much up-chanelling as heated ones? I feel for the poor CS people too but if all is calm at the phones I can only imagine that the supervisors don't react much and therefore the issue stays localized and never gets passed upwards...or if it does its not conveyed with the same sense of urgency. "We're getting raked over the coals down here...what are we doing about this?!?!" versus "oh, we've had complaints but we're processing them smoothly."
Edit: Could this be a cultural thing? Not to bash my countrymen but we do love a good confrontation from time to time. To be honest, it is necessary at times when you're being stonewalled.
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Post by: winterdyne
In the situation I worked in, frequency of complaint / calls about certain products, or requirement of replacement parts / engineer visits both generated quantatitve data that could be examined by the business I worked for. There was a database at the back end of it all that could (I suppose, wasn't my department) be queried for the number of fails on a particular part / system / manufacturer.
If a customer was abusive, swore a lot, or basically was being deliberately unpleasant to us we were allowed to simply terminate the call. Customers who'd been disconnected were 99% of the time polite the second time round. A certain amount of anger or frustration is to be expected, and a good CS operative will know how to calm someone down. We were required to go through several diagnostic steps to analyse problems, and quite often these could seem like a 'fob off' to customers, so it was a bit of an art in dealing with people to get the information needed to either fix the problem or arrange for it to be fixed.
But to directly address your question, no, at the end of the day a polite customer would get *exactly* the same service (or better, due to getting the information across) as an (initially) abusive or uncooperative one.
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Post by: rigeld2
coyotius wrote:Winterdyne, since you've worked CS, would you say that polite requests generated as much up-chanelling as heated ones? I feel for the poor CS people too but if all is calm at the phones I can only imagine that the supervisors don't react much and therefore the issue stays localized and never gets passed upwards...or if it does its not conveyed with the same sense of urgency. "We're getting raked over the coals down here...what are we doing about this?!?!" versus "oh, we've had complaints but we're processing them smoothly."
Edit: Could this be a cultural thing? Not to bash my countrymen but we do love a good confrontation from time to time. To be honest, it is necessary at times when you're being stonewalled.
Not trying to hijack the thread, and I (obviously) can't speak to winterdyne's experience..
When I worked phone support, the whole team was in pretty constant contact. If we all saw the same issue pretty constantly over the course of an hour or so, we'd ping the supervisor to let him know. If it continued, we'd ask him to escalate the issue. If we found a fix (especially one that wasn't related to our area) we'd escalate that immediately. The tone of the call didn't matter - angry callers simply took longer to deal with. Friendly or neutral callers were quick and to the point, issue resolved or otherwise documented, and call done. Angry callers meant I had to listen to a rant for 5 minutes before I could bother starting on the resolution, and there were many breaks in the fix waiting for another rant to finish.
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Post by: AlexHeap
Bar one or two every finecast model I've ordered from GW has had miscasts.
I've actually set up an email template now, with all the required information, so that I just have to plug the appropriate order number and picture into it. Saves me time and saves them time as they only have to send the one copy and pasted reply. Very rarely have to go through this process more than once though as you can generally cobble together a good one from the two sets.
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Post by: ironicsilence
Didnt GW put out a finecast repair kit for these problems? I kid i kid
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Post by: Daedricbob
Nothing I can add that hasn't already been said about quality control on some of the finecast castings, but for a 'flagship' limited edition figure they should have really made sure each one was pukka.
Ebay + metal models will be the preferred route for me until finecast quality control reaches a level on a par with the old white metals. Although finecast was obviously introduced by GW to be much cheaper to manufacture than metal figures, you can't melt the stuff down and recast when crap like that happens, so I wonder what the savings are? (And how big the returns pile is!)
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Post by: Talarn Blackshard
Having also worked in CS (currently working helpdesk for a hospital network) the main problem I have (from the CS POV) is that theres only so many phrases I can say and not get in trouble, so I really feel for CS.
My only interaction was when I received a large box full of knights (empire ... 5th/6th ed i think?back when they had the puffy pant and arm styles) they were awesome about it and send me my actual order (a ton of state troops and militia ... but did have to send back all the knights )
EDIT: fripping typos.
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Post by: HAZZER
ironicsilence wrote:Didnt GW put out a finecast repair kit for these problems? I kid i kid
There responce is either to buy anouther one or GS or liquid GS! Lol! But the thing is, my friend got a 25th guy and he was perfect! But mine has to be fuailty! @winterdyne-Thaks for the number! Will be phoning up trommrow!
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Post by: mwnciboo
That Space Marine head is a damn disgrace. So when GW say the price reflects the Quality and specialist nature of their business, I will say "BS".
I don't know any company that would put such a low quality product on sale. I mean thats the Quality you would expect of a third party fly by night operating company, that is ripping off customers.
I simply do not understand why when I buy from other companies like Battlefront or Forged in Battle, or even from FORGEWORLD, i get a decent resin product. But GW Finecast is awful.
I am also concerned as I like to Pin my models (even resin ones by drilling with a dremel and then gluing a Paperclip section in). With the number of air bubbles I am wary of voids within the Material and if i drill into it suddenly the outside collapses and I need to do reconstructive surgery with GS.
The only good thing to come out Finecast is Liquid Green Stuff and that says it all.
664
Post by: Grimtuff
mwnciboo wrote:
The only good thing to come out Finecast is Liquid Green Stuff and that says it all.
Which is simply the available-for-years-prior-to-failcast's-debut Vallejo Plastic Putty dyed green. 
40490
Post by: HAZZER
True! I second that! The GW Quailty control is complete !
7932
Post by: MiLkiT
winterdyne wrote:Pilgrim Argyllian wrote:You're probably right. Although I wanted to make it seem as if there is somebody behind each of these requests, stop it being "we received 2000 replacement requests this week" rather than "2000 customers were dissatisfied", an attempt to stop it being so systematic. Looking forward to seeing how your replacement goes.
I used to work in customer support (for PC's). My favourite customers were the ones that got straight to the point (politely). I didn't need to know (for example) what they were trying to burn to CD or why, simply that it wasn't working. A 10 minute discussion on their wedding day photography simply hurt my call times and my 'phone fix' quota for the day (and therefore my bonus).
MiLkiT: No need to get cross with the CS guys. Remember their calls are probably monitored, so they really can't tell you anything but the party line. Where they can't think of a sensible (and approved) answer, they're forced to use a deflection like you describe. Sad but true. Saying 'er, your chance of getting a good cast really isn't very good, expect to do this a few times' will just get them fired.
Hazzer: The CS number is: +44 (0) 115 9140000. Email is: orders@games-workshop.co.uk
I was getting quite steamed but I have also worked CS so I wasn't rude to him just a little questioning and annoyed. I basically got off the phone in time, just before After I wrote a polite but firm and to the point email with fail pictures and sent it to CS's E-mail.
They were going to mail me a shipping label that will take min of a week to get there. Then I have to post it and min of another week. That is if there isn't a delay from all the Fincrap they must receive daily.
I have never had to return anything. You just have to call them and explain or send in pictures. I had to order three batches of space wolf shoulder pads before I got enough to use, sometime last year. I used to work in a hobby store. When stuff was returned we'd just call GW CS and they'd send a replacement and we kept the defect. Can anyone confirm that this policy has changed?
53776
Post by: TheLionOfTheForest
I bought one finecast lord commissar.... never again.
40490
Post by: HAZZER
Tbh my first failcast was sicarus which was rather good only a few tich (Yes I mean tich not sarcusum this time) Air bubble's.
7932
Post by: MiLkiT
heartserenade wrote:MiLkiT wrote:heartserenade wrote:Er, change it into battle damage? That's really effed up. If it were me I would most likely just save the fist with GS and cut everything to combine with other kits for conversion.
Actually that's a pretty good idea, he might make a cool fight seen diorama
I actually have done this twice on two Sword brethren models. One had a derpy face and several bubbles on the shoulder pads and very bent sword. The other had several bubbles on both arms, legs and a HUGE bubble on its face that no one can fix short of resculpting. So for the first one I did a head swap and also changed the sword, then with my hobby knife turned the bubbles into battle damage. Same with the other one, only I hid the nasty bubbles with a shield on one hand and changed completely the other hand.
Nice work, great looking conversions !. This should be the penalty for gakky casting; the consumer gets something to mess with while waiting for a replacement. I guess you were able to keep the defected mini's right? Is the whole mailing them back thing just for Limited Edition stuff? Anyone?
18024
Post by: Velour_Fog
Might I suggest this thread instead if you want to vent your frustrations about finecast and GW?
50896
Post by: heartserenade
winterdyne wrote:No, just no. 'Call it battle damage' is NOT a solution.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Progress: I received an email from CS this morning, a replacement is on the way. I do really feel for the guys at CS, they have to deal with a ton of gak from a lot of folks (many of whom I'm willing to bet are far less polite than me). They do now, and always have done a sterling job.
Not saying it's a solution, but what would you do with the extra miscast models you have lying around when the replacements arrive? Waste not. Maybe someone should start a thread on selling miscasts they get to keep for people like me who would chop them up for conversions or try to salvage them as a challenge.
And it's a good thing you were allowed to terminate a call. Call center services here wouldn't allow that, and from my sister's rants a lot of the callers are pretty nasty =/. Yeah, be kind to them, really not their fault that the product is crappy or that they were instructed to answer that way. Automatically Appended Next Post: MiLkiT wrote:
Nice work, great looking conversions !. This should be the penalty for gakky casting; the consumer gets something to mess with while waiting for a replacement. I guess you were able to keep the defected mini's right? Is the whole mailing them back thing just for Limited Edition stuff? Anyone?
Yeah, I get to keep them. Funnily enough, I love the ones I "saved" more than the replacements I got. Now I don't even know if I want to include the replacements on my army, since they have the same poses. Might just give them as a gift to my friend who plays BT.
48376
Post by: Capitansolstice
Cant wait to see what you do with this winterdyne!
24347
Post by: templarboy
Has anyone notice any difference between finecast from the USA and the stuff from the UK? I would be interested to see if the QA is different here in the US. Is Fonecast even made here in the US? Enquiring minds want to know....
6589
Post by: Boss GreenNutz
Hmmm maybe GW should include a bottle of liquid GS with every Finecast sale and put a disclaimer that some airbubbles are expected but here are the tools for you to fill them.
7932
Post by: MiLkiT
Boss GreenNutz wrote:Hmmm maybe GW should include a bottle of liquid GS with every Finecast sale and put a disclaimer that some airbubbles are expected but here are the tools for you to fill them.
You might be onto something there. Giving the consumer complimentary tools to fix the mistaike makes a lot of sense! A lot more sense than lying to their face, increasing production costs and telling them everyrhings just Fine......casted
25853
Post by: winterdyne
Even if they gave me £20 worth of free tools with a £20 miniature, it's still not worth 3 hours of my time fixing it, and it would be returned as unsatisfactory. I already have all the tools I need to fix these disasters, it's simply not viable to do so.
40490
Post by: HAZZER
Skarwael wrote:Might I suggest this thread instead if you want to vent your frustrations about finecast and GW?
This thred is better because it singling out the 25th SM! But yes fair point!
40163
Post by: UNCLEBADTOUCH
I was told by my local GW manager that all the limited edition minis had been quality checked by the factory management team. If this was actually the case then the flaws you are seeing is what those managers deem suitable to appear in a retail product. This tells you a lot about the quality levels they are aiming for.
10093
Post by: Sidstyler
I really hope it's not true then, I'd hate to think each and every one of these things was inspected personally and all were deemed fit for sale.
40910
Post by: Pilgrim Argyllian
Got a reply this morning:
Hello
Thank you for your email. I am sorry for the problems you have had. A
replacement has been arranged and will be with you as soon as possible
at the provided address.
We have passed on all your feedback to quality controll and I hope that
this is of help, if you have any problems please do not hesitate to get
in touch.
Gareth
Customer Service
Whether they really pass it on I don't know, but that's what I really wanted, so I'm happy.
52525
Post by: Sonophos
ooo... no return request.
30520
Post by: deejaybainbridge
Mine looks ok. Some small bubbles but I'm not going to worry about those, easy fixed.
My WD model this year however is terrible, I've unclipped it and discovered some terrible miscasts.
I'm thinking of taking it back, will the unclipping be an issue?
48034
Post by: Jstncloud
The Duke of Vandals wrote:OK so this scares the crap outta me. I bought one as a advance order. If it looks even half as bad as yours Im gonna bumrush customer service like the wrath of khorne.
^
This...
I've had issues with Finecast and customer service was nothing but helpful with replacements, thought I was lucky and my first wave of replacements had minimal issues and was acceptable, seems it is a crapshoot but if you get a hold of one that isn't in rubbish shape I be danged if they do not look good.
25853
Post by: winterdyne
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:I was told by my local GW manager that all the limited edition minis had been quality checked by the factory management team. If this was actually the case then the flaws you are seeing is what those managers deem suitable to appear in a retail product. This tells you a lot about the quality levels they are aiming for.
I was told this too. I suspect it's part of a script, I doubt the store staff actually believe that. (Thought I'd be astonished to be corrected on that - do redshirts *actually* believe the crap they're told to say?)
40163
Post by: UNCLEBADTOUCH
I never did lol
I was sceptical then saw that the minis my local store were all in near perfect condition I thought maybe they had pulled there finger out then I switched on the internetz :-(
I do know the production and packaging guys have done some crazy stuff like repackaging all the bastions before release to avoid problems so they are capable of it when allowed
52525
Post by: Sonophos
winterdyne wrote:UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:I was told by my local GW manager that all the limited edition minis had been quality checked by the factory management team. If this was actually the case then the flaws you are seeing is what those managers deem suitable to appear in a retail product. This tells you a lot about the quality levels they are aiming for.
I was told this too. I suspect it's part of a script, I doubt the store staff actually believe that. (Thought I'd be astonished to be corrected on that - do redshirts *actually* believe the crap they're told to say?)
No but they like getting paid.
42504
Post by: JustPlainJim
Okay, I was really tempted to get this figure before I read this thread.
I have had a metal figure with a split-level head before, but that was just one instance... and it wasn't something as supposedly special as the uber-awesome happy-birthday- 40k figure.
40490
Post by: HAZZER
Pilgrim Argyllian wrote:Got a reply this morning:
Hello
Thank you for your email. I am sorry for the problems you have had. A
replacement has been arranged and will be with you as soon as possible
at the provided address.
We have passed on all your feedback to quality controll and I hope that
this is of help, if you have any problems please do not hesitate to get
in touch.
Gareth
Customer Service
Whether they really pass it on I don't know, but that's what I really wanted, so I'm happy.
So did you get 2? Automatically Appended Next Post: Just called custermer service!Dam I hate GW!
40910
Post by: Pilgrim Argyllian
So did you get 2?
I'm not entirely sure, thought about pinging a message back to check, because there are problems with both of them. I guess I'll find out tomorrow or thursday and report back here.
320
Post by: Platuan4th
mwnciboo wrote:I don't know any company that would put such a low quality product on sale. I mean thats the Quality you would expect of a third party fly by night operating company, that is ripping off customers.
Honestly, I've more often found it the other way around. Third Party companies generally have better QA and CS due to smaller print runs and surviving by word of mouth amongst customers and fans, whilst the big businesses send out whatever they deem "passable" and CS is hit or miss, ie. they'll send you any product(or product combination) that is the same cost dollar-wise if they don't have a replacement on hand rather than issue a refund and they'll STILL ask for the faulty product back. Of course, most of my experience in this comes from HUGE companies(as opposed to GW scale companies) like Hasbro, Mattel, Nintendo, Microsoft, etc. For example: Fansproject 3rd party add-ons are better quality plastic than Hasbro uses for its Transformers products due to not being held to the same safety standards due to being a collector's piece as opposed to a mass retail toy. In addition, they will ship(internationally and free of charge) any missing pieces that their product lacks if you have a problem where as Hasbro will e-mail you a return label to return the faulty merchandise and MAY send you the same product if they maybe possibly have it in stock in their warehouse that's clear on the other coast(they're based in Rhode Island and the warehouses are in California) that for some reason THEY CAN'T CHECK STOCK FOR.
40490
Post by: HAZZER
Just sent this E-mail to GW CS;
Dear Games Workshop Customer Services,
On the 25th of February I received a Warhammer 40k 25th anniversary figure, which I’m afraid to say was a miscast. I feel that this does not meet with Games Workshop’s standard for quality miniatures. I would like a sealed replacement please, to replace this miscast. The problem with this miscast are many various things which pictures have been attached;
Firstly a large chunk of a shoulder pad is missing because of an air bubble.
Secondly, the sprew which the miniature was moulded on is warped badly.
Thirdly the clear plastic box which the model came in was not fully vacuum formed meaning that there is no tab to open the box easily.
Fourthly, there were large amounts of flash which I have managed to remove the worst form the model.
Finally there were many various air bubbles on the model and the rock. For instance the Orks chin has two air bubbles on , The Space Marines power fist, both feet have air bubbles in, the neck guard Is very thin because of an air bubble which you can shine light through. The rock has air bubbles in too, with some shell casing not properly moulded.
However, there is another problem which has occurred; I bought two of these miniatures, to keep one for the future when 8th edition of Warhammer 40,000 is published. I would like to know if I should open this miniature to observe if this is also a miscast will I receive another sealed replacement for the additional model too? But, I will not open the second box if I do not receive a sealed replacement.
Finally I never received a poster or badge for the miniatures, and would it appreciate from a loyal customer if you could send me two posters and a badge. Or just tow posters instead, and I am willing to pay over the phone if necessary to receive them.
I hope that you can help me out on this matter,
Yours Sincerely,
HAZZER.(no in the real email I did'nt put HAZZER).
664
Post by: Grimtuff
HAZZER wrote:Just sent this E-mail to GW CS;
Dear Games Workshop Customer Services,
On the 25th of February I received a Warhammer 40k 25th anniversary figure, which I’m afraid to say was a miscast. I feel that this does not meet with Games Workshop’s standard for quality miniatures. I would like a sealed replacement please, to replace this miscast. The problem with this miscast are many various things which pictures have been attached;
Firstly a large chunk of a shoulder pad is missing because of an air bubble.
Secondly, the sprew which the miniature was moulded on is warped badly.
Thirdly the clear plastic box which the model came in was not fully vacuum formed meaning that there is no tab to open the box easily
Fourthly, there were large amounts of flash which I have managed to remove the worst form the model.
Finally there were many various air bubbles on the model and the rock. For instance the Orks chin has two air bubbles on , The Space Marines power fist, both feet have air bubbles in, the neck guard Is very thin because of an air bubble which you can shine light through. The rock has air bubbles in too, with some shell casing not properly moulded.
However, there is another problem which has occurred; I bought two of these miniatures, to keep one for the future when 8th edition of Warhammer 40,000 is published. I would like to know if I should open this miniature to observe if this is also a miscast will I receive another sealed replacement for the additional model too? But, I will not open the second box if I do not receive a sealed replacement.
Finally I never received a poster or badge for the miniatures, and would it appreciate from a loyal customer if you could send me two posters and a badge. Or just tow posters instead, and I am willing to pay over the phone if necessary to receive them.
I hope that you can help me out on this matter,
Yours Sincerely,
HAZZER.(no in the real email I did'nt put HAZZER).
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ArsonMurderAndJaywalking
@Winterdyne- Believe me, there were a few round here that believe the company line to the point of fanaticism. There really was no point in trying to have a conversation with them. See the "playing a pigeon at chess" analogy.
40490
Post by: HAZZER
Grimtuff wrote:HAZZER wrote:Just sent this E-mail to GW CS;
Dear Games Workshop Customer Services,
On the 25th of February I received a Warhammer 40k 25th anniversary figure, which I’m afraid to say was a miscast. I feel that this does not meet with Games Workshop’s standard for quality miniatures. I would like a sealed replacement please, to replace this miscast. The problem with this miscast are many various things which pictures have been attached;
Firstly a large chunk of a shoulder pad is missing because of an air bubble.
Secondly, the sprew which the miniature was moulded on is warped badly.
Thirdly the clear plastic box which the model came in was not fully vacuum formed meaning that there is no tab to open the box easily
Fourthly, there were large amounts of flash which I have managed to remove the worst form the model.
Finally there were many various air bubbles on the model and the rock. For instance the Orks chin has two air bubbles on , The Space Marines power fist, both feet have air bubbles in, the neck guard Is very thin because of an air bubble which you can shine light through. The rock has air bubbles in too, with some shell casing not properly moulded.
However, there is another problem which has occurred; I bought two of these miniatures, to keep one for the future when 8th edition of Warhammer 40,000 is published. I would like to know if I should open this miniature to observe if this is also a miscast will I receive another sealed replacement for the additional model too? But, I will not open the second box if I do not receive a sealed replacement.
Finally I never received a poster or badge for the miniatures, and would it appreciate from a loyal customer if you could send me two posters and a badge. Or just tow posters instead, and I am willing to pay over the phone if necessary to receive them.
I hope that you can help me out on this matter,
Yours Sincerely,
HAZZER.(no in the real email I did'nt put HAZZER).
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ArsonMurderAndJaywalking
@Winterdyne- Believe me, there were a few round here that believe the company line to the point of fanaticism. There really was no point in trying to have a conversation with them. See the "playing a pigeon at chess" analogy.
LOL! Thats GW for you!
7932
Post by: MiLkiT
During my Finecast induced rage, I wrote this letter to GW. If I don't get a satisfactory model I may just send it. Its jokes but I thought I should share..
Dear GW
Its been a great ride these last 25 years or so. We’ve had good times, we’ve fought and conquered many battles together. I remember back in the late 80’s that time the stoner GW employees got me to play a 40K against some strange skitzo weirdo. Oh how they all chuckled as the dude chrunched up his killed Eldar and threw them back in his case. All those painting contest we won together. Winning the 40K tournament @ Alternate Gravity with my best buddies….Good times and memories.
I guess the last time we really had a good time together was at your last 25th anniversary for Fantasy. That was fun, we won a painting contest got a Harry the hammer model.
But I just don’t think things are working out anymore. I stood by you when people called you over priced. When you released those horrible paints around 2000 that would constantly dry up, I kept buying….
I guess what I’m trying to say is; you’ve changed and I want to see other people. There I said it, you constantly think about yourself and spend all the money I give you on who knows what. So what do I get in return? Limp weak casts, empty promises! It’s like you don’t even care anymore. Look at yourself all droopy and full of holes, you really let yourself go. We took a break, ya I heard about you and this ‘Finecast’ I tried to ignore all the stuff people were saying about you.
Then I show up yesterday for the first time in years and you gak in a box and tell me its some fine ass chocolates! Well I’m not as stupid and blind as you think and I won’t stand for this negligent, neglectful, treatment anymore. You used to care so much about the little things, you know the details. It was nice back then but now you just abuse my trust and loyalty with lies and deceit.
Maybe in a few years, once you get your act together we’ll hang out. Talk about those good times again, maybe even do some shopping. But for now I’m going to block your E-mails, I’m not going to visit you online either. That’s right I’m going to find someone new. Someone who appreciates my loyalty, values honesty and commitment…. to quality. Its game over man, I hope you can live with what you’ve become.
Here is the reason for my rage 
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
40490
Post by: HAZZER
Lol!¬ so fuuny! But yes I deffently do agree with you, I've even sent out a emait to GW CS about a replacmant, but its ptreey stupid that they will give you a new modle and box but not re-seal it!
32492
Post by: l33tninj4
MiLkiT wrote:+1
Did they even look at these?? Its freaking unbelievable, Finecast my A$$. This was my first Finecrap mini I've ever purchased. 20 Years of GW for me and I've never seen such terrible craftsmanship! I waited a long time since they released this stuff, then got this crap handed to me. First and last for me.
Can you spot the Fail?
Curious space marine is very curious.
Anyways, what really killed failcast for me is I got an Isabella Von Carstein model and there was a tine bit of resin on her chin..... after shaving it down it led to a huge bubble that ruined her jawline. They should either learn to cast resin or go back to pewter in my view.
44886
Post by: Arm.chair.general
Failcost strikes again!
52629
Post by: The Duke of Vandals
So I got mine in the mail today, and it seems I won the crapshoot. 4 (very) minor bubbles on the powerfist. quick lick with liquid GS and done. I really feel for you guys getting crappy models. This is the 2nd finecast mini Ive bought and both have been great. Hope my luck holds up.
25853
Post by: winterdyne
40490
Post by: HAZZER
Holly... Do they ever lean?
13180
Post by: Cryb
Worst Fine cast i've ever seen. I make better resin casts myself
23489
Post by: Klogger
I thought about getting one of these guys, I am now very very glad I didnt
25853
Post by: winterdyne
If you can find one, apparently batch 2003 has quite a few that came out well.
40490
Post by: HAZZER
I got 2 form bach 2044!
50685
Post by: Skippy
Wow, those are awful! How do GW do it? Lots of other companies cast in resin ok dont they? GW certainly has the money for the best machines.
40490
Post by: HAZZER
Because there GW and don't give a dam about their loyal custumers, stopped around 3rd edtion.
1464
Post by: Breotan
winterdyne wrote:My replacement LE CF captain. I'll let the pics do the talking.
I was going to send in complete kits with failed bits in them but after seeing this, I'm going to prune anything remotefully acceptable (no bubbles, no mold slip) before I ship them back. No sense having them replace acceptable if not perfect parts with even worse parts. :(
25853
Post by: winterdyne
I ain't sending anything back until I get enough parts for a good, complete model.
40490
Post by: HAZZER
I'm thinking about keepig the banner when I send it back becuase the baner is perfect!
48376
Post by: Capitansolstice
Pathetic. Shame on GW
10345
Post by: LunaHound
HAZZER wrote:Because there GW and don't give a dam about their loyal custumers, stopped around 3rd edtion.
Why would GW need to care about their customers?
Half of the thread supports GW's fail casts
They can just keep making money off them
40490
Post by: HAZZER
LunaHound wrote:HAZZER wrote:Because there GW and don't give a dam about their loyal custumers, stopped around 3rd edtion.
Why would GW need to care about their customers?
Half of the thread supports GW's fail casts
And the other half supports GW's 'very cheep' prices!
25853
Post by: winterdyne
Guys, please cut the generic GW-bashing, or take it to a different thread. Keep discussion to the 25th Anniversary mini, please - this is supposed to be a WIP thread and it's being derailed a bit.
Thanks. :-)
7932
Post by: MiLkiT
winterdyne wrote:My replacement LE CF captain. I'll let the pics do the talking.
I'm amazed that we're all having casting issues in the same places. The M6 helmet on the base for instance. Your shoulder pad is even inside the sprue! How is it possible to miss that? Unless of course your not even looking. Oh right right, I forget they want us to mail them all back so they can look at them now 
I was at least hoping the replacments would be better than the origionals. I'm totaly not giving any parts back till I have one whole model. So far I have one $40(CND) flag and nothing else
They can have all the extra garbage back once I get one whole model, since GW likes garbage soo much. I mean just look at what they are shipping out. This will be the most limited model ever cause almost no one has gotten a decent one yet. Also I don't consider 7/10 decent for a LE model that cost $40. Let me go look at my Harry the Hammer models and see if there are any defects in either of those. Yep none there and that model is massive pile of metallic skeletons.
40490
Post by: HAZZER
I think that if you get misscast parts and good parts, keep the good parts (I have a nicly cast banner) and return the misscast parts!
41100
Post by: boember
Sad to see... Didn't finecasts turn better yet? Bought some in June and was really disappointed when I got home. Lots of bubbles, so I decided to wait until they become better. Seems like I have to wait some more time
37097
Post by: blood lance
Finecast has become so reknown as a bad product, I have to question how games workshop still have made no changes, or release a small paragraph apologising for their terrible product. Instead no, games workshop lives in a fantasy world where finecast IS the perfect product. As soon as someone slaps GW across the face so they can snap out of it the better.
44219
Post by: FrozenSoul80
This makes me scared for the Games Day figure. I was hoping to grab that one.
50238
Post by: Talos63
I had very similar problems with my first figure ordered from GW online here in Oz.
Misaligned SM Helmet, bubbles in the base and detail missing, warped banner and one of the purity seals missing. Small bubbles in right heel and sole not completely finished, bubbles in the crotch area.
My sealed replacement arrived today and it's worse than the original! It's impossible to try and salvage one good figure from the two as the problems occur in the same pieces.
So it's back on to Customer Service! It really takes the fun out of buying the figure when you can't rely on the product being of merchantable quality.
22413
Post by: mwnciboo
I bought an entire Platoon of panther Tanks from PSC (5 tanks) in 15mm, very good quality and very nice, £16. One single finecast specialist miniature celebrating 25 years of 40k, £20 and the quality is questionable.
Why would I pay well over the odds, for a single poor quality miniature. They can stick finecast I'll do without the filling out and re-sculpting the miniature to bring it to an acceptable level. I'll be buying 2nd hand white metal or plastic.
40490
Post by: HAZZER
Talos63 wrote:I had very similar problems with my first figure ordered from GW online here in Oz.
Misaligned SM Helmet, bubbles in the base and detail missing, warped banner and one of the purity seals missing. Small bubbles in right heel and sole not completely finished, bubbles in the crotch area.
My sealed replacement arrived today and it's worse than the original! It's impossible to try and salvage one good figure from the two as the problems occur in the same pieces.
So it's back on to Customer Service! It really takes the fun out of buying the figure when you can't rely on the product being of merchantable quality.
I know what you mean! I was thinking of getting 2 (thats if I can get an adtionail one on the day?) And 2 of the WD 2012 guys with my subcription!
47224
Post by: Stevey293
winterdyne wrote:Guys, please cut the generic GW-bashing, or take it to a different thread. Keep discussion to the 25th Anniversary mini, please - this is supposed to be a WIP thread and it's being derailed a bit.
Thanks. :-)
I'll just bump this on winterdynes behalf. Looking forward to when you actually get to start this thing.
40490
Post by: HAZZER
Stevey293 wrote:winterdyne wrote:Guys, please cut the generic GW-bashing, or take it to a different thread. Keep discussion to the 25th Anniversary mini, please - this is supposed to be a WIP thread and it's being derailed a bit.
Thanks. :-)
I'll just bump this on winterdynes behalf. Looking forward to when you actually get to start this thing.
Scond that! Automatically Appended Next Post: Just recived a reply form GW CS after 6 days of waiting, seems I don't need to send the guy back!
Hi HAZZER (again not the name replied with),
Thanks for the email, apologies it doesn’t seem we received this email, we are sorry to hear about this issue, if you could reply back with a preferred delivery address we will gladly recast a new one for you.
We look forward to hearing back from you.
Regards
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Post by: winterdyne
I also have a new one on the way and allegedly being cast up (they've run out of boxes!) and checked - I cheerfully informed them that if it wasn't up to scratch I'd want another, and another, and I wasn't bothered about the boxes, having 2 already. It took 4 days for the email to be replied to (faster after phoning - if you're in the UK pick up the phone, don't bother emailing) and it'll be another 3-5 working days for the replacement to arrive.
If the stories I've heard (improved casts! actual QA checks! 50 foot GIANT ANTS! erm...) bouncing around are true, this could be the one I get to work on. Fingers crossed, but don't hold your breath, guys.
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Post by: AustonT
I bought one after reading this thread ( I didn't even know about it before) and at first I thought it was great.NOT. Now it's my turn to play the GW Customer Service Game.
This was my first finecast model. Thank God GW does not disappoint in delivering a substandard product at an exorbitant price...bring back metal! or fix resin.
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Post by: Gravity
After seeing this I'm getting the metal Eldar Rangers instead of the Barfcast, even though they'r the old models. At least I get 6 models for less money than 5 Anuscast, and whitout fail on them.
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Post by: mahon
We had a chance to review this Finecast 25th Anniversary Space Marine and it was one of the best Finecast models we happened to see so far.
Comparing it to what you received makes me think we were simply lucky. But if you care to read our Finecast 25th Anniversary Space Marine review, you will see that our marine even if not perfect was not even remotely as bad as yours.
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Post by: winterdyne
Nice. I'd be happy with one like that. :-)
And, WoOO! Mahon posting in one of my humble threads. :-)
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Post by: Orki
mahon wrote:We had a chance to review this Finecast 25th Anniversary Space Marine and it was one of the best Finecast models we happened to see so far.
Comparing it to what you received makes me think we were simply lucky. But if you care to read our Finecast 25th Anniversary Space Marine review, you will see that our marine even if not perfect was not even remotely as bad as yours.
After checking your blog and looking at the final pics of the bubbles, I would say that the quality is as good as I have ever seen Finecast. Even if only 25% of Finecast models that I have seen in real life looked as good as that, I would be impressed!
winterdyne wrote:Nice. I'd be happy with one like that. :-)
And, WoOO! Mahon posting in one of my humble threads. :-)
Quick, ask him to sign your boobs!
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Post by: mahon
oh come on, don't make me shy, guys. if there are boobs to sign, just shoot me a PM (except for man boobs unless they're really nice )
i hope you don't mind the fact we included a link to your thread in the review, do you?
and yeah, had all Finecast models been half that good, nobody would have come up with the Failcast name
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Post by: Orki
Actually, last I knew Winterdyne didn't really have any moobs to sign. Not that i've, y'know checked personally or anything. *ahem*
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Post by: winterdyne
No, no moobs. Sometimes that makes me a little sad.
Anyway, no, certainly don't mind the link back. To bring the thread up to date, I am currently waiting for replacement number 6 to arrive. If it's not here by lunchtime tomorrow GW will be getting an angry phone call.
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Post by: mahon
Keep us updated, as it's as thrilling as it gets ^^.
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Post by: Orki
Man, you need a new girlfriend!
And Winterdyne needs to eat more pies. Get some macca man-boobs on the go!
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Post by: winterdyne
Just to update this; I am currently waiting for replacement 6 (I think - I've lost count) to arrive. Nearly 2 months in; still no joy.
I will not request a refund. I want a good cast (fixable with minimal Liquid GS work and cleaning up only), and I don't care how many it takes, or how long.
I have also eaten several pies since Orki's post. I am still moobless, but have developed a pot belly. My wife is threatening me with a diet.
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Post by: HAZZER
I'm waiting for a 3rd cuirrently and now GW want me to send the others back, this is really taking the micky. Do you still have the other replacements or did you have to send them back? When I phoned up they said all of the casts are meant to be like this, ie- aero marines and you should be able to use a litte (whole pot) liquid gs. Do you have any pics of the guys too? And finally are you getting whole replacements? Btw, ive been waiting over a week now the the next modle...
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Post by: mwnciboo
Erm, weren't these models limited edition? If so where are GW getting the replacements from?
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Post by: Sidstyler
lol, they're "meant to" be like this? So that means the holes are intentional to force you to buy their filler product then?
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Post by: Skinnattittar
Truly a shame, you guys. I do feel sorry for the products you have been receiving. But in all honesty, I have to say I am not surprised and I do not think you guys should be either.
It has gotten to a point, with Games Workshop models, that you have to expect such low quality of their models as part of the purchase. In most cases, you get lucky and the models are okay (with plastics at least), but all to often you get terrible pieces (such as in metals and now "finecast").
Ultimately, the only real solution, the only way to get GW to start producing proper models and taking care in their work, is to stop buying. I am serious, stop buying their products if you want them to improve their products. They will, of course, release statements attacking your loyalty or pleading and promising improvements in the near future once you have bought out their current stock of back products, but ultimately they will not change until you are hurting their pockets.
I am not trying to be vengeful or vindictive, or encouraging such acts, but practical. GW is a business, they operate and analyze themselves by the amount of money coming in. If something is not making them money (or enough money) they fix it. Otherwise.... well you get Finecast.
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Post by: HAZZER
mwnciboo wrote:Erm, weren't these models limited edition? If so where are GW getting the replacements from?
They remake the casts.
Skinnattittar wrote:Truly a shame, you guys. I do feel sorry for the products you have been receiving. But in all honesty, I have to say I am not surprised and I do not think you guys should be either.
It has gotten to a point, with Games Workshop models, that you have to expect such low quality of their models as part of the purchase. In most cases, you get lucky and the models are okay (with plastics at least), but all to often you get terrible pieces (such as in metals and now "finecast").
Ultimately, the only real solution, the only way to get GW to start producing proper models and taking care in their work, is to stop buying. I am serious, stop buying their products if you want them to improve their products. They will, of course, release statements attacking your loyalty or pleading and promising improvements in the near future once you have bought out their current stock of back products, but ultimately they will not change until you are hurting their pockets.
I am not trying to be vengeful or vindictive, or encouraging such acts, but practical. GW is a business, they operate and analyze themselves by the amount of money coming in. If something is not making them money (or enough money) they fix it. Otherwise.... well you get Finecast.
It won't work, trust me I've tried! The only other Failcast stuff I'm going to get is the WD guy becuse I'm a subber and the games day guy. After that I'm done for a while. Unless theres a modle that I really like or the quailty improves. Tbh I'd foung that metal was far better cast wise and was far less faulty. But I've only had about 20 not even that...
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Post by: winterdyne
Skinnattittar wrote:Ultimately, the only real solution, the only way to get GW to start producing proper models and taking care in their work, is to stop buying. I am serious, stop buying their products if you want them to improve their products. They will, of course, release statements attacking your loyalty or pleading and promising improvements in the near future once you have bought out their current stock of back products, but ultimately they will not change until you are hurting their pockets.
Partially right - returns / replacement figures are being tracked, and are having more of an effect than 'boycotts' - the feedback is being recorded and will build up to the point where it's unavoidable. Simply not buying gets ignored as a consumer 'trend' rather than anything in reaction to what the company has done. There is a 'yes man' culture there that does NOT acknowledge problems without significant pressure from several directions.
Consider some estimate profits in / expenses:
Purchase one model. Say around £12.50 revenue in.
Assume a relatively modest 40% profit margin - around £5 'profit'
Now, a replacements (by phone):
5 minutes phone CS agent time - £0.60 (ish - assume about £6.50 per hour). Make sure the CS agent knows you're not happy, but don't be rude. They have a lot to deal with at the moment.
Courier delivery of the new model - £0.70 (bit cheaper than RM 1st class)
Production and picking of new model - about £1.50 (assuming no packaging)
EVERY replacment they send out is going to cost them about £2.80. Two replacements leaves a zero profit sale. More starts to eat profits generated by the line itself. It's that impact of profits that's important. Just dig your heels in and continue the process untill you've at least eaten the profit from your purchase (before getting a refund!) or you get what you paid for.
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Post by: HAZZER
Hmm...That may be why they don't want to send out a 3rd replemnet.
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Post by: OscarHracsO
And I thought I had bad Finecast models, I guess I never realised the extent to which it could suck.
I think it's probably worst for the newest gamers and casual hobbyists - like me.
I'd NEVER be able to correct something as bad as that without grinding half his face off.
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Post by: HAZZER
Thats were Green Stuff comes in...Well if you can resculpt half a face or the most detailed part of the modle...
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Post by: OscarHracsO
"Resculpt"...
I don't know... I can fill in a hole, file down any lumps or clip off excess plastic (or metal as I'm more used to)..
But resculpting sounds like the kind of thing that could turn me into a shivering wreck.
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Post by: winterdyne
To update, I'm done with the replacement tango.
Number 6 came in, and apart from a few bubbles in the powerfist fingertips, some on one of the ribbed soft joins on the leg it's a clean enough cast.
In short it's fixable, and the best of the 6 so far, so I'll be breaking out the LGS and hair dryer to fix it up.
So Yay Finecast! 2 fecking months, and 6 fecking replacements and around 10 phone calls. Way to make profit GW.
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Post by: OscarHracsO
So are you going to do a showcase of how it turns out? I'd love to see it, basing my interest on your Blood Angels.
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Post by: Orki
Winterdyne told me earlier that he's gonna slap some regal blue on it and dip it in some black wash.
It'll get him in the fast queue for GD this year anyway.
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Post by: rigeld2
Should build a new base out of the 5 discard marines for the GD :-)
Or have them adorn a pedestal or something.
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Post by: winterdyne
I'm thinking of using a repeated '6' motif in any freehand. Why? 'Cos it took 6 fecking replacements, Alan.
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Post by: Aerethan
Any chance of posting pics of the new one? Or at least pics after it's been cleaned up and fixed.
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Post by: winterdyne
Yeah, I'll try and get them on soonish. Workspace needs a clearup today. :-)
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Post by: HAZZER
Do you have any pics of the other replacment modles? And did you send yours back?
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Post by: Lysenis
Ekoi wrote:Emerett wrote:Spend your money on WarmaHordes instead, the models are always pristine.
Now now, don't be that guy.
There is always one. . .
And this is the reason I call it Failcast still. If my upcomming tyranid army was not mostly failcast I would not fret BUT since it is I will be CQing them for GW and will most deffintly be getting replacements.
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Post by: winterdyne
No, I stopped taking pics after replacement 3. No point, CS pretty much take me at my word (and I don't take the piss - any faults I report are genuine). Didn't send any back, but didn't get full sets each time, just what I wasn't happy with.
To be fair, this final replacement has more bubbles than the one before, BUT they're in MUCH easier to fix places. I wanted something where I know any reason it's not a GD level model (clean!) is my own damn fault, not because I've had to cobble a fix on a hard to duplicate surface.
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Post by: HAZZER
Hmm... Ok Because I've had full replacements.
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Post by: King of the Elves
Here's what i don't get, why does GW even make finecast? No one (by that i mean the people that buys thier product) likes it, it costs a lot more reatil (i don't lnow if it costs more to make), and then they probley get a ton of returns on just finecast alone. On top of all that it's destroying GWs public image (or whatever they have left of it). You would think that GW would open thier eyes and go to big forums like Dakka to see what they could change to make thier company better! /end of banter
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Post by: Kanluwen
Using feedback from forums to run a company is like poking your eyes out with a red hot poker and entering a marksmanship competition on the idea of making perfect shots using coaching from the audience.
That said, I look forward to seeing Winterdyne's final replacement.
Have you considered what you're going to do with the rest of them?
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Post by: mwnciboo
Yup, Kanluwen is completely correct. You don't run a Company by popular consent or by committee. It's all about Finance, making product and selling product for a profit. Everything else is icing on the cake, and helps sales. FC is turning into a real millstone around GW's neck, they need to sort this out, or their Present Bouyant Share Price will begin to tumble.
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Post by: rigeld2
winterdyne wrote:I'm thinking of using a repeated '6' motif in any freehand. Why? 'Cos it took 6 fecking replacements, Alan.
I was thinking like he's standing triumphantly on top of his lessers... but either way
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Post by: winterdyne
King of the Elves wrote:Here's what i don't get, why does GW even make finecast? No one (by that i mean the people that buys thier product) likes it, it costs a lot more reatil (i don't lnow if it costs more to make), and then they probley get a ton of returns on just finecast alone. On top of all that it's destroying GWs public image (or whatever they have left of it). You would think that GW would open thier eyes and go to big forums like Dakka to see what they could change to make thier company better! /end of banter
It saves them a shedload of money to produce, and the (reported) culture of the company does not admit to mistakes. There's very little 'ownership' of problems. No 'I fethed up - sorry, this is not working'. The Company is always Right. Which makes fixing issues when they occur, foremost a problem of getting those issues recognised.
However, the critical returns rate may be costing them. I advise the customer base to keep pressure up in this regard. This is the feedback that counts. Get them shipped to you (costs the company, you keep the original parts). Don't take the piss - ensure you can prove each and every requirement for replacement. Generally you won't have to, but it's still good practice. The aim is to get what you paid for, not a bucket of free stuff. Consistent feedback online does in fact affect the *public's* regard for the product - whether the company takes note of it or not is largely irrelevant, as such feedback does inevitably have some effect. Look up finecast on Wikipedia for example.
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Post by: Kanluwen
winterdyne wrote:
Look up finecast on Wikipedia for example.
Not to be a knob or anything here Winterdyne, but searching for "Finecast" yields a link to the Citadel Miniatures page.
Which has this to say--and was modified on April 12, 2012.
On May 16th, 2011, Games Workshop announced a new range of Citadel models known as Citadel Finecast. [6] The new range of models are made out of high-quality[citation needed] resin, and were released on the 28th May 2011. All of the models that have been shown are resin versions of Citadel's lead-free white metal models, but are much lighter and more durable[citation needed] than their metal equivalents, as well as being of a higher level of detail[citation needed] than any other Citadel miniature currently available. [7] However it is possible that the quality of these models aren't actually as good as Games Workshop intended. As many people have pointed out, they have many flaws. Usually the models come with defects in them, such as bent weapons, lots of additional flash etc.[citation needed] The most significant concern is reports of high number of models that have casting flaws, such as bubbles, that completely obliterate detail, requiring resculpting to ensure the model is complete. Wayland Games, a retailer in UK, includes the following note on Finecast on their website:
"Note: If you wish to purchase any Finecast products please accept that this is a product for experienced modellers only and that some remedial effort is required due to the nature of the material and manufacturing techniques. If in doubt please do not purchase." [8]
It's very, very interesting that the Wayland Games citation, by the by, is not an actual link. It just says this:
^ "Wayland Games: Citadel Finecast;".
What that tells me is that particular citation was removed--somewhat recently, mind you, as it still is listed in the body of the article and in the citations section without a notation that the link is dead.
It's also worth noting this particular piece of the Finecast section:
As many people have pointed out, they have many flaws. Usually the models come with defects in them, such as bent weapons, lots of additional flash etc.[citation needed]
You and I both know that's not a "flaw" or a "defect". Bends are a product of the medium, and whoever put that up there is talking out of their bum. Whoever put "lots of additional flash" as well is so far beyond the pale of what could be considered rational that it's silly.
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Post by: rigeld2
Based on the edit history the link is there, it just wasn't done correctly... or something.
The citation link exists if you edit the section. No conspiracy theories there.
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Post by: Aerethan
Kanluwen wrote:
It's also worth noting this particular piece of the Finecast section:
As many people have pointed out, they have many flaws. Usually the models come with defects in them, such as bent weapons, lots of additional flash etc.[citation needed]
You and I both know that's not a "flaw" or a "defect". Bends are a product of the medium, and whoever put that up there is talking out of their bum. Whoever put "lots of additional flash" as well is so far beyond the pale of what could be considered rational that it's silly.
Funny, I can manage to cast resin weapons without bends just fine. You'd think a 100 million dollar company could figure out how to replicate my results...
So no, bends are not a product of the medium. They are a product of laziness and penny pinching. Leave the model in the mold until it is fully cured and problem solved. But then that would slow production, which costs them money...
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Post by: winterdyne
Kanluwen; Yeah that's the article I was thinking of.
Pretty damning that the entry on what's effectively a publicily editted encyclopedia states quality issues on what's supposed to be the world's best miniatures range.
In terms of bent weapons, there's a world of difference in correction difficulty between resin bent by pressure or heat compared to post-pull curing in a warped position. It's the curing in the warped position that gives a part a 'memory' of the warped position (hence things tending to move back to that position after being corrected).
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Post by: Kanluwen
Aerethan wrote:Kanluwen wrote:
It's also worth noting this particular piece of the Finecast section:
As many people have pointed out, they have many flaws. Usually the models come with defects in them, such as bent weapons, lots of additional flash etc.[citation needed]
You and I both know that's not a "flaw" or a "defect". Bends are a product of the medium, and whoever put that up there is talking out of their bum. Whoever put "lots of additional flash" as well is so far beyond the pale of what could be considered rational that it's silly.
Funny, I can manage to cast resin weapons without bends just fine. You'd think a 100 million dollar company could figure out how to replicate my results...
So no, bends are not a product of the medium. They are a product of laziness and penny pinching. Leave the model in the mold until it is fully cured and problem solved. But then that would slow production, which costs them money...
You're also casting things at a much smaller volume than they are. You can cite it for laziness and penny pinching all you want, but you're not producing upwards of hundreds of models a day now are you? However you did not actually dispute my statement. You simply said that "bends can be negated by paying lots of attention to each model".
That's not going to happen, and you most certainly know why.
Bends are a product of the medium of resin. The material has an inherent flexibility to it which is not necessarily seen in metal or the commonly utilized plastics. That comment, however, does not state that "bends never ever ever happen in any other medium other than Finecast and it's clearly a failure of quality control". Bends can--and do happen--even during things as simple as shipping.
winterdyne wrote:Kanluwen; Yeah that's the article I was thinking of.
Pretty damning that the entry on what's effectively a publicily editted encyclopedia states quality issues on what's supposed to be the world's best miniatures range.
Sure it is, but at the same time part of those criticisms are so ridiculously silly ("Excessive amounts of flash"? So we never see flash on metal or plastics?)they make it seem like someone just got bored and decided to take the most minimal issues and blow them up as the "big points".
In terms of bent weapons, there's a world of difference in correction difficulty between resin bent by pressure or heat compared to post-pull curing in a warped position. It's the curing in the warped position that gives a part a 'memory' of the warped position (hence things tending to move back to that position after being corrected).
Oh no doubt. The issue I take with it is that it does not differentiate between the two.
If the piece will not actually straighten out due to having been pulled at a warped position? Then yes--there is a problem.
If the piece will straighten after a few dips in hot->cold water? That's not a world-ending problem with the material. It's freaking two or three minutes worth of work, tops.
Sidenote: Sorry if I'm taking your thread off-topic here Winterdyne. If you want, I'll gladly discuss it in PMs with yourself and/or Aerethan.
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Post by: winterdyne
Nah, I'm not that botthered, mate.
I personally accept and expect small bubbles that are easily filled. Anything where I have to resculpt detail is a problem. Spin cast resin in particular has huge issues with this. Flash similarly, isn't an issue, nor are parts that bend post-cure (as they are easy enough to correct).
Even on the model I'm finally accepting, there are far mor fixes than there should be, or would be in metal or pressure-cast resin. You'll see when I take the photos. I also have an event only Skinwolf that is typically 'Finecast'. Missing fingertips, claw tips. The sort of thing that shouldn't be missing. :-( And already 1 set of replacement parts down.
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Post by: UNCLEBADTOUCH
You should paint the first miscast one you got to the highest of your skills an enter that into golden demon I'm sure it being the finest possible miniature you can't even imagine they would have to at least make it a finalist regardless.
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Post by: Fenrisian
Oh man. Now I'm afraid to even take it out of the box.
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Post by: Aerethan
My resin doesn't bend like finecast bends. I have no problem making pieces that stay the way they were designed thru the casting process.
And the excuse that GW doesn't have to meet basic criteria of quality because they produce on some grand scale is total BS.
Computer parts are produced on even broader scales and the failure/return rate on those is insanely less than with GW's rinky dink resin project.
The fact is that GW has no excuse to be releasing shoddy products that aren't as pictured, at least not without huge disclaimers about their lack of quality control and how your finecast model may look damn near nothing like the one pictured(many models of which are still pics of the original metal pieces).
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Post by: winterdyne
<frank oz>I sense much anger in you young Aerethan... much anger. Hmmm!</frank oz>
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Post by: Shadowbrand
Threads like this make me afraid of ordering my Haradrim Commanders.
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Post by: Aerethan
winterdyne wrote:<frank oz>I sense much anger in you young Aerethan... much anger. Hmmm!</frank oz>
lol
I just refuse to accept that GW can be ok with what they have done.
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Post by: winterdyne
Shadowbrand wrote:Threads like this make me afraid of ordering my Haradrim Commanders.
By all means order them. But well ahead of time and in the knowledge that you *may* need to dance the replacement tango for a while. Or they might be lovely first time out. The main thing is DON'T ACCEPT SOMETHING YOU'RE NOT HAPPY WITH.
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Post by: AgentP
I couldn't stop laughing when I saw that failcast helmet. He looks... dubious.
The shortbus riding red headed stepchild marine.
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