Dota 2 is an upcoming action real-time strategy fantasy strategy video game being developed by Valve Corporation and the stand-alone sequel to the popular Defense of the Ancients mod for Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos and The Frozen Throne.
So, seeing as there's a LoL thread, thought we might as well have a DotA 2 one as well. No LoL/HoN bashing please, would like this to be civil. Don't beg for beta invites either.
My Steam name is IbbleBibble. I like playing support heroes the most, especially Enchantress, but I have a certain soft spot for Outworld Destroyer as well.
So, after looking through Cyborgmatt's data trawling through the latest test patch, it seems Brewmaster and Phantom Lancer are coming up soon. I especially want to try out PL. His skills seem hilariously fun to use, and he looks badass.
Looking forward to Brewmaster, Chaos Knight, and Dirge a lot. I'm sure Dirge is a ways away though, which is sad.
I do have a lot of fun in the game, but most games seem to be either Stomp, or Get stomped. It's beta, but the MM seems really bad right now.
This patch was nice, a lot of bugfixes. I imagine release isn't to far away, they seem to be focusing on the shop stuff right now, and I imagine when that's ready, we'll see release.
It's a closed beta for now. I don't have any spare invites left. :/
I like to random on my friendly games with friends. Thanks to it I found that I do a decent Viper. My best score so far was with Enchantress though, 18/0/9, thanks to a whole load of kill stealing.
Also, believe Brewmaster is up next, thanks to the title of the latest blog post on the DotA 2 site.
Swordwind wrote:It's a closed beta for now. I don't have any spare invites left. :/
I like to random on my friendly games with friends. Thanks to it I found that I do a decent Viper. My best score so far was with Enchantress though, 18/0/9, thanks to a whole load of kill stealing.
Also, believe Brewmaster is up next, thanks to the title of the latest blog post on the DotA 2 site.
I hate when people random on teams, because a lot times they get counter-picked, or they fail to fill a vital gap in a line up.
I accidentally randomed Lycan in a pub once. Luckily my friends were on my side and didn't rage at me for playing a hero I didn't know. I was gonna go Enchantress.
That was a hilarious game against 5 hard carries that we lost spectacularly.
Swordwind wrote:I accidentally randomed Lycan in a pub once. Luckily my friends were on my side and didn't rage at me for playing a hero I didn't know. I was gonna go Enchantress.
That was a hilarious game against 5 hard carries that we lost spectacularly.
How did you manage to loose against 5 hard carries?
As far as Heroes I'm not very good with, I'd have to say Storm and Pudge. I can't land a hook to save my life, and I am just not very good with Storm at all.
I like Dark Seer, Lycan, and Furion a lot, because I can roam easy, and do a ton of damage wherever I show up, They are also all incredibly easy to farm up
I have to say that Ursa, Shadow Shaman, and Skeletal King are my favorite characters, and I really want to learn how to play Storm Spirit well, because let's face it, you create clones of your hansome self.
I did discover that they changed everything they needed to; lack of QWER, twenty different shops (Mostly because each shopkeeper could only hold so much), and the terrible WC3 Graphics...... It's great, me thinks.
Only thing I wish DOTA has was Taric. I find his absence to be outrageous. Truely, truely, truely..... outrageous.
Slarg232 wrote:I bought WC3 two days before I got into the Beta
I did discover that they changed everything they needed to; lack of QWER, twenty different shops (Mostly because each shopkeeper could only hold so much), and the terrible WC3 Graphics...... It's great, me thinks.
Only thing I wish DOTA has was Taric. I find his absence to be outrageous. Truely, truely, truely..... outrageous.
Let's agree to keep this discussion to just DOTA 2, without anything about LoL or HoN. Someone will come in here, and totally derail it that stuff comes up.
Anyway,
I agree that it's shaping up to be better than Dota 1. I'm looking forward to some heroes being added. Can't wait for Dirge and Soul Keeper. Those two are a ton of fun.
There are a issues right now. Last patch went a long way into fixing some of the bugs, but it's still fairly riddled. This is to be expected of course. I'm betting that it's going to be released/go into open beta sometime around the time of the Next International tournament. I don't expect we'll see all the heroes in when the game is released.
MrDwhitey wrote:As someone who played Dota 1, and currently plays LoL, I really want this game to come out. I already know which hero I wish to main (Warlock).
You're in luck, because Valve just sent me 6, yes, 6, beta invites! PM your Steam name if you want it.
My thanks! Shall have it downloaded tonight and be playing it a lot.
Just playing some games on my own at the moment (I hate people who just jump into team games without knowing anything, so I refuse to do it myself), man, feels good. Memories coming back.
Slarg232 wrote:I bought WC3 two days before I got into the Beta
I did discover that they changed everything they needed to; lack of QWER, twenty different shops (Mostly because each shopkeeper could only hold so much), and the terrible WC3 Graphics...... It's great, me thinks.
Only thing I wish DOTA has was Taric. I find his absence to be outrageous. Truely, truely, truely..... outrageous.
Let's agree to keep this discussion to just DOTA 2, without anything about LoL or HoN. Someone will come in here, and totally derail it that stuff comes up.
Odd. You seem to know alot about the MOBA genre, but not that it is really easy to "Ignore" trolls.
Currently I've just been playing bot games. Playing a certain other game for so long means I have to familiarise myself with this, and I'm finding it hard, like an old dog.
Frankly watching some of the peoples live games (excellent feature that) puts the skill of people I've been playing against in LoL to shame. I was watching a mental Invoker player earlier, that was an eye opener.
Axe and Sven are my favorite. I have always preferred to be in the thick of melee combat. I have played most characters, and my favorite mage is Zeus. Getting a scepter and refresher orb is just ridiculous.
My all time favourite is Outworld Destroyer. Why? He utterly rolls over Anti-Mage. Practically all of AM's skills are nullified by something that OD can do.
Never could warm up to Lykan but Dark Seer is a love for life. Jungle until the 6-7 minute mark (especially if I'm on the dire), Arcane Boots, go troll the sh*t out of the enemy team. Pulling people onto cliffs is hilarious, especially when they repeated fail to buy TP or Force Staff. We once got 3 guys on a cliff, killed their courier, killed the other two supports and razed 3 towers and a set of rax.
I can also handle Bane, Night Stalker, Viper, Lich and Bloodseeker pretty well.
Whenever it goes available I'll give it a go. I only have experience playing LoL.
On that note, the marketing of DoTA2 was always strange to me. I would see banners for tournies and other such things that basically told me to play the game, but it was closed beta. Was odd that they advertised something you can't really play bar lucky invite draw.
Swordwind wrote:My all time favourite is Outworld Destroyer. Why? He utterly rolls over Anti-Mage. Practically all of AM's skills are nullified by something that OD can do.
Well, OD is all about buffing his Int/Mana Pool, something AM has a field day with. a Good Anti-mage will generally roll over OD. Not as bad as Pugna, but yeah.
I find he's a very good counter-pick to Low-int lineups. If I see their line-up has a lot of low int heroes, and no AM/Pugna Then I'll pick him. He needs a good team with him. I have a 100% win rate with him as of now.
Pugna Hard counters him though, if I see an enemy pick OD, I'll pick Pugna.
Swordwind wrote:My all time favourite is Outworld Destroyer. Why? He utterly rolls over Anti-Mage. Practically all of AM's skills are nullified by something that OD can do.
Well, OD is all about buffing his Int/Mana Pool, something AM has a field day with. a Good Anti-mage will generally roll over OD. Not as bad as Pugna, but yeah.
I find he's a very good counter-pick to Low-int lineups. If I see their line-up has a lot of low int heroes, and no AM/Pugna Then I'll pick him. He needs a good team with him. I have a 100% win rate with him as of now.
Pugna Hard counters him though, if I see an enemy pick OD, I'll pick Pugna.
The thing is, OD's aura just gives him back all his mana anyway. AM can't do much about that. True about Pugna, I'll have to watch out for him.
Talking about Pugna, decided to play him for the first time in a pub. Won.
Brewmaster is officaly in now, I'm looking forward to playing him when the Main game gets patched tomrrow. Here is the overview, for those unfamiliar with him.
TheWildHost wrote:(Hopefully I don't come off sounding like a troll)
Is DOTA a truly good game? I enjoy LoL( Which I know is a copy) , but how do they compare?
DotA is much more about positioning, where as LoL is much more about hand-eye coordination.
A gank in DotA is basically a chain stun fest where the person being ganked litterally can't do anything, there is little to no skill involved in Ganks in DotA, but it takes a hell of a lot more skill to avoid one.
In LoL, a Gank is you trying to escape a gank while being beaten on by two or more people while slowed.
Also, DotA is much more based upon random chance (Ever seen a Skeleton King flip gak and Crit 4 times in a row? 15% chance to deal 275% damage), where as everything in LoL is "Every X amount of times Y happens, Z happens".
Also, you lose money when you die, so it is doubly benefitial to kill people.
All in all, I prefer DotA to LoL, but they are both good. LoL gives you more content over the months, and Skins are honestly really cool. But I prefer having every character unlocked from the Get Go.
I'd also add that LoL is all about throwing out abilities and itemization is fairly linear for most champs (items in general are linear in comparison). In DotA, especially in early game, abilities are extremely powerful and can't be fired off anywhere near as often. DotA has much more complex itemization.
Also, DotA doesn't have Ability Power, which changes the dynamic of things quite a bit.
TheWildHost wrote:(Hopefully I don't come off sounding like a troll)
Is DOTA a truly good game? I enjoy LoL( Which I know is a copy) , but how do they compare?
If you don't want to concentrate and take the time to learn a game and get better, play LoL.
If you want to play a real game that you know will always be balanced and always be itself, play DotA.
DotA is not a real game compared to LoL. As I said, DotA is based alot more on chance than LoL is, and as every knows having your lucky number drawn isn't skillful on your part. There is also no actual mechanical skill involved in Chainstunning people, just as there is no skill involved in Magic Immune -> Running into three people -> Lifestealing all damage taken. LoL also has this, but no Magic Immune, meaning you can still CC people.
Also, not directed at you, Karon, but I hate when people say LoL is more Spammy than DotA...... Zues, Tinker, Silencer, Outworld Destroyer all say hello.
Maybe it's just the characters I'm playing. None of them can really shoot off abilities as frequently as I can in LoL (Mostly because I run out of mana if I do) but then I haven't played a lot of the characters yet. EDIT: Auto attacks in DotA2 actually matter, while in LoL unless you're a offtank or a AD carry, it doesn't really matter too much.
TheWildHost wrote:(Hopefully I don't come off sounding like a troll)
Is DOTA a truly good game? I enjoy LoL( Which I know is a copy) , but how do they compare?
If you don't want to concentrate and take the time to learn a game and get better, play LoL.
If you want to play a real game that you know will always be balanced and always be itself, play DotA.
DotA is not a real game compared to LoL. As I said, DotA is based alot more on chance than LoL is, and as every knows having your lucky number drawn isn't skillful on your part. There is also no actual mechanical skill involved in Chainstunning people, just as there is no skill involved in Magic Immune -> Running into three people -> Lifestealing all damage taken. LoL also has this, but no Magic Immune, meaning you can still CC people.
Also, not directed at you, Karon, but I hate when people say LoL is more Spammy than DotA...... Zues, Tinker, Silencer, Outworld Destroyer all say hello.
Some skills are based on chance, but to disregard the player skill involved is just silly. Ganks aren't just chain stuns either, I don't know where you get that idea. Do they involve stuns sometimes? Yes. All the time? Not even close. It's also not chance when it comes to denying/last hitting as well as proper positioning which is very important.
The lifesteal thing is also absurd. If you are at the point in the game, where one person is soling three at once, then the game has been over. Lifesteal is not enough to compensate from 3 players physical DPS, in addition to the plethora of things that go through Magic Immunity. If this was true, then everyone would just go BKB Skeleton king, and walk over everyone. That doesn't happen now though,does it?
You are really over simplifying things here, to an absurd degree.
DotA has a much steeper learning curve than LoL, and I would say you really have to put in some time and effort to get the point where you can start really enjoy it. Learning what every heroes abilities do, is also integral.
LordofHats wrote:Maybe it's just the characters I'm playing. None of them can really shoot off abilities as frequently as I can in LoL (Mostly because I run out of mana if I do) but then I haven't played a lot of the characters yet. EDIT: Auto attacks in DotA2 actually matter, while in LoL unless you're a offtank or a AD carry, it doesn't really matter too much.
If you want to Spam Skills, go as Silencer or more importantly, Outworld Destroyer; they can use a Skill every auto attack, which when you get your Attack Speed up there is quite fast. Outworld Destroyer can even restore Mana when he does it, allowing him to do it more.
Sasori wrote:
Slarg232 wrote:
Karon wrote:
TheWildHost wrote:(Hopefully I don't come off sounding like a troll)
Is DOTA a truly good game? I enjoy LoL( Which I know is a copy) , but how do they compare?
If you don't want to concentrate and take the time to learn a game and get better, play LoL.
If you want to play a real game that you know will always be balanced and always be itself, play DotA.
DotA is not a real game compared to LoL. As I said, DotA is based alot more on chance than LoL is, and as every knows having your lucky number drawn isn't skillful on your part. There is also no actual mechanical skill involved in Chainstunning people, just as there is no skill involved in Magic Immune -> Running into three people -> Lifestealing all damage taken. LoL also has this, but no Magic Immune, meaning you can still CC people.
Also, not directed at you, Karon, but I hate when people say LoL is more Spammy than DotA...... Zues, Tinker, Silencer, Outworld Destroyer all say hello.
Some skills are based on chance, but to disregard the player skill involved is just silly. Ganks aren't just chain stuns either, I don't know where you get that idea. Do they involve stuns sometimes? Yes. All the time? Not even close. It's also not chance when it comes to denying/last hitting as well as proper positioning which is very important.
The lifesteal thing is also absurd. If you are at the point in the game, where one person is soling three at once, then the game has been over. Lifesteal is not enough to compensate from 3 players physical DPS, in addition to the plethora of things that go through Magic Immunity. If this was true, then everyone would just go BKB Skeleton king, and walk over everyone. That doesn't happen now though,does it?
You are really over simplifying things here, to an absurd degree.
DotA has a much steeper learning curve than LoL, and I would say you really have to put in some time and effort to get the point where you can start really enjoy it. Learning what every heroes abilities do, is also integral.
You've never seen Tiny ganking a lane with Bane and Juggernaught, have you? Tiny does his AoE stun, Bane does his Ult, and if your still alive after that, you get Bane's 7 second Stun while Jug Blade Dances over you. What about Invoker ganking Crystal Maidens lane? Cold Snap stuns, stuns again per every damage tick, and then once that wears off CM Frostbites you. Still another is Sven ganking a lane with Skeleton King and Windrunner in it; Sven Fists you, Skely fists you, and then Windrunner does her Skillshot into it. Your stunned the entire time. If you somehow survive it, you get Powershot in the back. Natures Prophet jumps in, puts a ring of trees around you, then Clockwerk puts a ring of Gears around you, then Vengeful stuns you. I could go on, but you get the point.
Also, Ursa. Ursa is fully able to BKB into a group of enemies and rip them to shreds in three hits each.
Edit: because I forgot about it, Yes Last Hitting/Denying is more skillful, but it's really the only part of the game that absolutely requires more Skill than LoL.
Though another thing in DOTA's favor is Map Control. With Secret Shops and Runes, Map control actually means something in DotA. It doesn't mean as much in LoL.
LordofHats wrote:Maybe it's just the characters I'm playing. None of them can really shoot off abilities as frequently as I can in LoL (Mostly because I run out of mana if I do) but then I haven't played a lot of the characters yet. EDIT: Auto attacks in DotA2 actually matter, while in LoL unless you're a offtank or a AD carry, it doesn't really matter too much.
If you want to Spam Skills, go as Silencer or more importantly, Outworld Destroyer; they can use a Skill every auto attack, which when you get your Attack Speed up there is quite fast. Outworld Destroyer can even restore Mana when he does it, allowing him to do it more.
Sasori wrote:
Slarg232 wrote:
Karon wrote:
TheWildHost wrote:(Hopefully I don't come off sounding like a troll)
Is DOTA a truly good game? I enjoy LoL( Which I know is a copy) , but how do they compare?
If you don't want to concentrate and take the time to learn a game and get better, play LoL.
If you want to play a real game that you know will always be balanced and always be itself, play DotA.
DotA is not a real game compared to LoL. As I said, DotA is based alot more on chance than LoL is, and as every knows having your lucky number drawn isn't skillful on your part. There is also no actual mechanical skill involved in Chainstunning people, just as there is no skill involved in Magic Immune -> Running into three people -> Lifestealing all damage taken. LoL also has this, but no Magic Immune, meaning you can still CC people.
Also, not directed at you, Karon, but I hate when people say LoL is more Spammy than DotA...... Zues, Tinker, Silencer, Outworld Destroyer all say hello.
Some skills are based on chance, but to disregard the player skill involved is just silly. Ganks aren't just chain stuns either, I don't know where you get that idea. Do they involve stuns sometimes? Yes. All the time? Not even close. It's also not chance when it comes to denying/last hitting as well as proper positioning which is very important.
The lifesteal thing is also absurd. If you are at the point in the game, where one person is soling three at once, then the game has been over. Lifesteal is not enough to compensate from 3 players physical DPS, in addition to the plethora of things that go through Magic Immunity. If this was true, then everyone would just go BKB Skeleton king, and walk over everyone. That doesn't happen now though,does it?
You are really over simplifying things here, to an absurd degree.
DotA has a much steeper learning curve than LoL, and I would say you really have to put in some time and effort to get the point where you can start really enjoy it. Learning what every heroes abilities do, is also integral.
You've never seen Tiny ganking a lane with Bane and Juggernaught, have you? Tiny does his AoE stun, Bane does his Ult, and if your still alive after that, you get Bane's 7 second Stun while Jug Blade Dances over you. What about Invoker ganking Crystal Maidens lane? Cold Snap stuns, stuns again per every damage tick, and then once that wears off CM Frostbites you. Still another is Sven ganking a lane with Skeleton King and Windrunner in it; Sven Fists you, Skely fists you, and then Windrunner does her Skillshot into it. Your stunned the entire time. If you somehow survive it, you get Powershot in the back. Natures Prophet jumps in, puts a ring of trees around you, then Clockwerk puts a ring of Gears around you, then Vengeful stuns you. I could go on, but you get the point.
Also, Ursa. Ursa is fully able to BKB into a group of enemies and rip them to shreds in three hits each.
Edit: because I forgot about it, Yes Last Hitting/Denying is more skillful, but it's really the only part of the game that absolutely requires more Skill than LoL.
Though another thing in DOTA's favor is Map Control. With Secret Shops and Runes, Map control actually means something in DotA. It doesn't mean as much in LoL.
I played Dota For years, and then HoN, and now Dota 2. There are good combos out there, but to say every gank is a chainstun, is silly. I can give you the same example you just did, of a gank, without a single slow or stun. Perhaps if you read what I post next time.
Here, I'll do you a favor, and post it again for you.
ganks aren't just chain stuns either, I don't know where you get that idea. Do they involve stuns sometimes? Yes. All the time? Not even close
So, my point still stands.
Also, Ursa. Ursa is fully able to BKB into a group of enemies and rip them to shreds in three hits each.
Ursa is considered a pubstomp hero, because people don't counter him in pubs. You know what you do when an Ursa comes at you? You run. His slow has a terrible casting animation, and he is not going to catch you without team help. It's also incredibly easy to shut Ursa early game. There is a reason he isn't picked in competitive games.
Sasori wrote:I played Dota For years, and then HoN, and now Dota 2. There are good combos out there, but to say every gank is a chainstun, is silly. I can give you the same example you just did, of a gank, without a single slow or stun. Perhaps if you read what I post next time.
Here, I'll do you a favor, and post it again for you.
ganks aren't just chain stuns either, I don't know where you get that idea. Do they involve stuns sometimes? Yes. All the time? Not even close
So, my point still stands.
Odd, after rereading it I was not given a single example of a gank without a Chainstun. The only sort that wouldn't would be someone like Zues showing up and blasting you from behind. I can Gank with Mordekaiser, too, but that don't mean it's a good idea..
I see no point.
Also, Ursa. Ursa is fully able to BKB into a group of enemies and rip them to shreds in three hits each.
Ursa is considered a pubstomp hero, because people don't counter him in pubs. You know what you do when an Ursa comes at you? You run. His slow has a terrible casting animation, and he is not going to catch you without team help. It's also incredibly easy to shut Ursa early game. There is a reason he isn't picked in competitive games.
Ursa with a Haste Ruin. Ursa with Dark Seer. Ursa with Phase Boots. Also, in a team game, it's not too hard to get Team Help.
But please, give me an example of a Gank without a single stun.
Odd, after rereading it I was not given a single example of a gank without a Chainstun. The only sort that wouldn't would be someone like Zues showing up and blasting you from behind. I can Gank with Mordekaiser, too, but that don't mean it's a good idea..
I see no point.
But please, give me an example of a Gank without a single stun.
Alright, here we go.
Shadow Raze X3, Requiem of Souls, Blinked in Epicenter, Chainfrost, Sanitys Eclipse, Echo Slam, Lifebreak+burning spears. Etc etc.
The point is, you have no idea what your talking about. You are speaking from your very limited experience in the game, and it shows. Almost all of those moves can wipe out a team on their own, and don't require stuns in the least.
Ursa with a Haste Ruin. Ursa with Dark Seer. Ursa with Phase Boots. Also, in a team game, it's not too hard to get Team Help
If you want to include team help, then it makes it even easier to counter Ursa. Fissure in the way of him. Done. He can't catch you.
Are you really going to try to say, "Ursa with a haste rune with catch you" Anyone with a haste rune will. But considering runes only spawn every 2 minutes, and the chance of haste rune is only 1/5th chance, it's pretty silly to try to bring that into a discussion.
Odd, after rereading it I was not given a single example of a gank without a Chainstun. The only sort that wouldn't would be someone like Zues showing up and blasting you from behind. I can Gank with Mordekaiser, too, but that don't mean it's a good idea..
I see no point.
But please, give me an example of a Gank without a single stun.
Alright, here we go.
Shadow Raze X3, Requiem of Souls, Blinked in Epicenter, Chainfrost, Sanitys Eclipse, Echo Slam, Lifebreak+burning spears. Etc etc.
The point is, you have no idea what your talking about. You are speaking from your very limited experience in the game, and it shows. Almost all of those moves can wipe out a team on their own, and don't require stuns in the least.
Ursa with a Haste Ruin. Ursa with Dark Seer. Ursa with Phase Boots. Also, in a team game, it's not too hard to get Team Help
If you want to include team help, then it makes it even easier to counter Ursa. Fissure in the way of him. Done. He can't catch you.
Are you really going to try to say, "Ursa with a haste rune with catch you" Anyone with a haste rune will. But considering runes only spawn every 2 minutes, and the chance of haste rune is only 1/5th chance, it's pretty silly to try to bring that into a discussion.
Um.... Echo Slam stuns due to his third skill. Chainfrost is a Slow and Ministun. Sanities Eclipse is most often preceded by Astral Imprisonment (Added Intel, ya know). By the time any good Shadow Fiend has Requiem of Souls, the game has already moved to Teamfights. You've got me on the rest of them, but it appears your not quite as knowledgable as you would like to assume. It's ok though, you play DotA
Also, whose to say that the Ganker has to have the stun? I have yet to see a Gank get pulled off successfully without a stun in DotA, and more often than not it requires more than one.
Also, since YOU are bringing Blink Daggers into play, Ursa Blinks into your group. Done. He's now in the middle of you, killin ur doods. And since you can't be hurt before you Blink, all he has to do is divide his attacks once each, and your all his playthings.
And Haste Runes are a possibility and therefore are required to be brought up. Yes, ANYONE and their mother can catch you when Hasted. Including Ursa.
If you don't have it skilled, it doesn't stun. I'm talking about the skill of it's own merits.
Chainfrost is a Slow and Ministun
It ministuns the first target only, which is almost negligible, unless to interrupt a channeling spell or TP.
Sanities Eclipse is most often preceded by Astral Imprisonment (Added Intel, ya know).
Astral Imprisonment, isn't a stun, so I don't see your point here.
By the time any good Shadow Fiend has Requiem of Souls, the game has already moved to Teamfights.
Ganks can happen over the course of the entire game.
You've got me on the rest of them, but it appears your not quite as knowledgable as you would like to assume. It's ok though, you play DotA
I mentioned one with a Mini-stun, oh dear. There are plenty of more examples than this. It's pretty clear I'm quite knowledgeable.
Also, whose to say that the Ganker has to have the stun? I have yet to see a Gank get pulled off successfully without a stun in DotA, and more often than not it requires more than one.
Then you haven't been playing very long and/or not very skilled. it's not hard, and doesn't require one at all.
Also, since YOU are bringing Blink Daggers into play, Ursa Blinks into your group. Done. He's now in the middle of you, killin ur doods. And since you can't be hurt before you Blink, all he has to do is divide his attacks once each, and your all his playthings.
Forcestaff, Ghost say hi. Not to mention, the Blink dagger discussion was about Ganks, it had nothing to do with the Ursa Scenario.
So how much farm are you giving this Ursa, to successfully gank? Blink, BKB, Phase Boots, and Vlads at the moment. You care to throw anymore items on him? If he is that farmed up, then it is a failure of the enemy team to successfully gank him.
Slarg232 wrote:I could go on, but you get the point.
Some of the best ganking lineups have little to no stuns. Ever seen Night Stalker get Ion Shelled and Surged? Tidehunter with any decent right clicker? It works and it works just as often as chain stuns, which on in itself require intimate knowledge of your teammates skill distribution at any given time. There's nothing worse than overlapping stuns when you lose your target because everyone piled their disables at once.
And let's face it, most successful ganks come from the surprise factor and the target being out of position, not from stuns or slows.
Slarg232 wrote:Also, Ursa. Ursa is fully able to BKB into a group of enemies and rip them to shreds in three hits each.
Serves them right for letting him farm that much.
Slarg232 wrote:Though another thing in DOTA's favor is Map Control. With Secret Shops and Runes, Map control actually means something in DotA.
Past the 15 minute mark, map control is actually not about runes or secret shop (it's pretty much never about secret shop) and instead all about setting up favorable positioning for team fights and ganks, while having as much info on enemy movement as possible.
Speaking about info on enemy movement, I find it hilarious when we ward the opponent's jungle and their Chen starts raging in all caps about where their creeps are.
Also, managed to win a hilarious 70 minute game as Lich that started off with me disconnecting for 15 minutes, and us losing mid racks, and ended with us managing to push down mid and take all the towers and racks in one swoop.
If you don't have it skilled, it doesn't stun. I'm talking about the skill of it's own merits.
Chainfrost is a Slow and Ministun
It ministuns the first target only, which is almost negligible, unless to interrupt a channeling spell or TP.
Sanities Eclipse is most often preceded by Astral Imprisonment (Added Intel, ya know).
Astral Imprisonment, isn't a stun, so I don't see your point here.
By the time any good Shadow Fiend has Requiem of Souls, the game has already moved to Teamfights.
Ganks can happen over the course of the entire game.
You've got me on the rest of them, but it appears your not quite as knowledgable as you would like to assume. It's ok though, you play DotA
I mentioned one with a Mini-stun, oh dear. There are plenty of more examples than this. It's pretty clear I'm quite knowledgeable.
Also, whose to say that the Ganker has to have the stun? I have yet to see a Gank get pulled off successfully without a stun in DotA, and more often than not it requires more than one.
Then you haven't been playing very long and/or not very skilled. it's not hard, and doesn't require one at all.
Also, since YOU are bringing Blink Daggers into play, Ursa Blinks into your group. Done. He's now in the middle of you, killin ur doods. And since you can't be hurt before you Blink, all he has to do is divide his attacks once each, and your all his playthings.
Forcestaff, Ghost say hi. Not to mention, the Blink dagger discussion was about Ganks, it had nothing to do with the Ursa Scenario.
So how much farm are you giving this Ursa, to successfully gank? Blink, BKB, Phase Boots, and Vlads at the moment. You care to throw anymore items on him? If he is that farmed up, then it is a failure of the enemy team to successfully gank him.
His Master's Voice wrote:
Slarg232 wrote:I could go on, but you get the point.
Some of the best ganking lineups have little to no stuns. Ever seen Night Stalker get Ion Shelled and Surged? Tidehunter with any decent right clicker? It works and it works just as often as chain stuns, which on in itself require intimate knowledge of your teammates skill distribution at any given time. There's nothing worse than overlapping stuns when you lose your target because everyone piled their disables at once.
And let's face it, most successful ganks come from the surprise factor and the target being out of position, not from stuns or slows.
Slarg232 wrote:Also, Ursa. Ursa is fully able to BKB into a group of enemies and rip them to shreds in three hits each.
Serves them right for letting him farm that much.
Slarg232 wrote:Though another thing in DOTA's favor is Map Control. With Secret Shops and Runes, Map control actually means something in DotA.
Past the 15 minute mark, map control is actually not about runes or secret shop (it's pretty much never about secret shop) and instead all about setting up favorable positioning for team fights and ganks, while having as much info on enemy movement as possible.
While I disagree and your guy's tone is slightly condesending, I thank the both of you for actually typing things out and having a discussion, rather than just saying "HAHA LOL IS BAD!" without giving any other reason. I'll continue playing, and see what comes out of it. I love me some Rhasta, he's too cool to not play.
Karon wrote:Slarg, LoL is gak.
DotA is straight cash homie.
This sort of response is why nobody takes DotA seriously outside of a select few.
Its why most people who actively play DotA don't try to spread it to play other "MOBAs".
Its better in every way gameplay and balance wise to LoL, yet people still try to argue otherwise.
LoL is meant for casuals who can't handle the learning curve and complexity of DotA. That's it. The only reason LoL is even taken seriously in the e-sports scene is because of just how many people play it and are willing to watch streams of tournaments. Its not because its an actually competitive or balanced game, its because people will watch it regardless.
Slarg232 wrote:While I disagree and your guy's tone is slightly condesending, I thank the both of you for actually typing things out and having a discussion, rather than just saying "HAHA LOL IS BAD!" without giving any other reason. I'll continue playing, and see what comes out of it. I love me some Rhasta, he's too cool to not play.
Sorry if I sounded condescending. I was simply trying to convey the idea that ganks at their core rely on positioning. One can get good positioning via stuns, slows, speed or good map control, and all of those mechanics can contribute to a successful hit in varying degrees.
And Rhasta is indeed awesome, though I can't ward trap people for life. Don't know why, never could get it right...
Karon wrote:Its why most people who actively play DotA don't try to spread it to play other "MOBAs".
Its better in every way gameplay and balance wise to LoL, yet people still try to argue otherwise.
LoL is meant for casuals who can't handle the learning curve and complexity of DotA. That's it. The only reason LoL is even taken seriously in the e-sports scene is because of just how many people play it and are willing to watch streams of tournaments. Its not because its an actually competitive or balanced game, its because people will watch it regardless.
You know why Baseball is taken seriously as a Sport but Calvinball isn't? Because it's simple and alot of people know what it is/how to play it. You know why Chess is played for money, yet Mordheim isn't? Because it's alot simpler, and more people know how to play it. Being more complex makes it LESS likely to be taken seriously as an e-sport.
And League is balanced, almost perfectly so. The only characters who need help right now are Eve, Xin, and Heimerdinger, everyone after that is fine. The problem is.... Hell, I'll just link this picture:
Give me a character you feel is overpowered/underpowered in LoL, and I'll show you their counter.
His Master's Voice wrote:
Slarg232 wrote:While I disagree and your guy's tone is slightly condesending, I thank the both of you for actually typing things out and having a discussion, rather than just saying "HAHA LOL IS BAD!" without giving any other reason. I'll continue playing, and see what comes out of it. I love me some Rhasta, he's too cool to not play.
Sorry if I sounded condescending. I was simply trying to convey the idea that ganks at their core rely on positioning. One can get good positioning via stuns, slows, speed or good map control, and all of those mechanics can contribute to a successful hit in varying degrees.
And Rhasta is indeed awesome, though I can't ward trap people for life. Don't know why, never could get it right...
I also wish to apologize, that was mostly a jab at DotA players' stereotype, which if you go to Playdota.com..... oh gods......
Edit: Is Vlad's a good item for Skeleton King? Doesn't it give your entire team a 46% Vampiric Aura, or do they not stack? Also, what would be a good team to do this with?
Karon wrote:LoL can't be balanced with Runes, Summoner Spells, and a new hero coming out every two weeks.
Sorry, end of story. LoL is a gak version of DotA for casuals.
And once again, we get into it just being a gak version without anything to back it up.
Runes? Most casters/lanes use ONE type of Runepage. Depending on the Lane, the Runepage is almost always exactly alike (Pen Reds, Armor/Res Yellows, Regen Blues, Damage/Power Quints). So there is no unbalanced ness here.
Summoner Spells? Again, each Role uses the same one so it doesn't really matter. Every Carry takes Flash/Ignite. Every Support takes Heal/Clairvoyence. Every Jungler takes Smite/Exhaust. It's not unbalanced when every role has the same thing on each side.
The Heroes? Oddly enough, if the New Heroes are so overpowered, why are Ryze, Tryndamere, Win Nhao, and Mordekaiser constantly bitched about for being overpowered? There are only three heroes that are known to be underpowered; Kayle, Eve, and Xin (who is oddly still complained about being overpowered....). Kayle is trying to be too much (A carry/support/caster/debuffer) and it shows, Eve was never in a good place to begin with, and Xin was the most overpowered character on release and got over nerfed.
Also, oddly enough, Tourneys realize that new characters don't have their strengths and weaknesses apparant. That's why you can't use any characters that were added only a little bit ago in many of the legit ones.
Once again, there is nothing coming from the "LoL is for LOSERS!" people that isn't "LoL is for Losers!". Considering your lack of knowledge about Rally being taken out for Surge in an earlier thread, it can be assumed that you haven't even touched LoL in a long, long time.
No, not since October when I got into the DotA 2 beta have I touched LoL.
I don't really -need- to, though. The attitude the developers take towards their game tells me that its not competitive and its not meant to be. I've said this many, many times in other threads.
The only time Tournaments hold out on a new hero is because of stability issues. Each patch when I played seemed to feth something up so they usually use the most stable build in the past couple of versions.
But, yeah. DotA is now better in every way than LoL because of all the revisions in DotA 2 like standard QWER and all those kinds of things. Things that make it its own game and not just a mod.
Karon wrote:No, not since October when I got into the DotA 2 beta have I touched LoL.
I don't really -need- to, though. The attitude the developers take towards their game tells me that its not competitive and its not meant to be. I've said this many, many times in other threads.
The only time Tournaments hold out on a new hero is because of stability issues. Each patch when I played seemed to feth something up so they usually use the most stable build in the past couple of versions.
But, yeah. DotA is now better in every way than LoL because of all the revisions in DotA 2 like standard QWER and all those kinds of things. Things that make it its own game and not just a mod.
What attitude taken by it's developers? The constantly promoting pro streamers? The fact that my game is telling me to watch a Live Tourney going on every three months or so? What stance exactly is this you speak of?
When does Valve NOT have Stability issues with their new patches? TF2 gets knocked the FETH out every single time there is a major update. So does L4D/L4D2. It would be a fools ignorance to think DotA 2 is going to be any different.
But yeah, still no specific reason as to why DotA is better than LoL, other than DotA is supposidly better than LoL.
LoL isn't exactly the king of patching though The Hecarim Patch has screwed up the chat system in game and its actually impossible to communicate with your team in champ select if it cuts out. Its still happening even though Riot supposedly hotfixed it.
About Vlad's on Skele, I don't think it's the best idea. There's better holders of Vlad's out there, like Ursa.
Any unreleased heroes that you guys really want to try out? There's quite a few for me, such as Lancer, Treant, Mortred and Wisp. Oh god yes, Wisp. Seems like an epic support.
Swordwind wrote:Well this is turning into a big barrel of fun.
About Vlad's on Skele, I don't think it's the best idea. There's better holders of Vlad's out there, like Ursa.
Any unreleased heroes that you guys really want to try out? There's quite a few for me, such as Lancer, Treant, Mortred and Wisp. Oh god yes, Wisp. Seems like an epic support.
Only one that really sounds interesting is Mortred, honestly.
Though that means she's going to suck and I'll be playing as somebody else. I always look forward to the "Bad" characters.
Swordwind wrote:Well this is turning into a big barrel of fun.
About Vlad's on Skele, I don't think it's the best idea. There's better holders of Vlad's out there, like Ursa.
Any unreleased heroes that you guys really want to try out? There's quite a few for me, such as Lancer, Treant, Mortred and Wisp. Oh god yes, Wisp. Seems like an epic support.
Dirge is one of my favorites. He's a great pusher, and can wreck face in teamfights as well, with his ultimate. I'm not a fan of Lancer. He takes a lot of farm, and really takes half the game to get decent. Mortred is great. Her Ultimate can start having an impact right away. She is nearly impervious to ganks, thanks to the updated fade mechanic. She can also farm VERY well for a carry, with stifling dagger. Wisp stupid good for a support.
Right now, I'm looking forward to Dirge, Terrorblade, and Chaos Knight. I'm also Looking forward to Mortred as well. She seems almost done.
How should one familiar with LoL approach DotA ? I watched a friend play, it seemed quite brutal. Thoroughly enjoyed seeing a character (Sniper ? sum'thin' like that) taunt him after a kill : "Thanks for standing still, spanker !"
How should one familiar with LoL approach DotA ? I watched a friend play, it seemed quite brutal. Thoroughly enjoyed seeing a character (Sniper ? sum'thin' like that) taunt him after a kill : "Thanks for standing still, spanker !"
I still like Lich the most. I get kills by accident when I ulti. Seriously. Once my friend as SK epicentred and blinked in, I chain frosted, and I got 4 kills without realising it.
Swordwind wrote:I still like Lich the most. I get kills by accident when I ulti. Seriously. Once my friend as SK epicentred and blinked in, I chain frosted, and I got 4 kills without realising it.
Lich is great, because he can fit into almost any line up, and do well. I won a 4v5 last night as Lich. Granted, I was just being Ward Ho and what not, it was still great.
How should one familiar with LoL approach DotA ? I watched a friend play, it seemed quite brutal. Thoroughly enjoyed seeing a character (Sniper ? sum'thin' like that) taunt him after a kill : "Thanks for standing still, spanker !"
If your familiar with LoL, but not DotA, do these things:
Play Intelligence or Strength Heroes. Most of them don't need alot of Itemization, just levels. As a rule, stay away from people labeled "Carry", though Skeleton King is acceptable.
Also, play incredibly, INCREDIBLY defensive for the first few games. Do NOT push your lane. You will get Ganked, and you will die.
Don't get frustrated. DotA is very much a game you have to want to like. You will die alot right off the bat. It's ok. Just play Bot Matches, if you need to leave you may do so without penalty, so if you absolutely HATE a character your not stuck in forty five minutes of Hell.
Which brings me to why I am here; I got a PC Game Capture editor thingamajigger from work today. I was wondering if anyone would be willing to help me stage a few battles in both games to do a side by side comparison. I'm not trying to say which is better, they both have their merits, I'm just trying to let people see one or two videos and get the majority of differences between the two games, that way they can decide by themselves.
I wouldn't want to do DotA cause I suck and I don't want that on the internet but I'd totally help with LoL where I feel like I'm at least passable. I'm Lord0fHats.
LordofHats wrote:I wouldn't want to do DotA cause I suck and I don't want that on the internet but I'd totally help with LoL where I feel like I'm at least passable. I'm Lord0fHats.
It's staged, and no one is going to be "named" save me, and I'll be using a different screen name than what I usually use. It will basically be a "Let's look at a Pre-LvL6 gank in DotA". Now that you've seen what that's like, "let's look at a Pre LvL six gank in LoL". The trick will be picking which characters to use to show similarities.
MrDwhitey wrote:I can help with the Dota one, but you're on the feeeelthy americano servers for LoL.
Edit: Though I'm now getting another client of lol to run for those like some guy I know does...
Sweet.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Looks like it's a no go. my video capture program doesn't seem to work on DotA. I'll try again tomorrow morning.
Heres a picture with the new Items, compared to the old ones.
Just waiting for Cyborgmatts blog to get updated, so we can see what he data mined this week.
EDIT:
Figured I'd throw this into an Edit. I think we're going to end up with a large path of several heroes at some point. They are trying to get all the competitive ones ready, for the next international. Supposedly we should expect at least 5-10 getting released between now and then. I don't think there is any set date on the next international, but I suspect it'll probably be in the summer.
EDIT: 2
Cyborg matts stuff is up. A lot of work being done. Can't say I'm a fan of Lions new look. Seems like they are going to start working overtime, to get the more competitive heroes ready for the second international. I imaigne around that time, will mark Open Beta/Release as well.
I like the new layout, glyph and courier positioning (even though I usually hotkey the donkey) and the indicator of what it's doing at the moment (just so that I can instantly rage that someone is taking a courier to bring him a salve when I should be getting my bottle JUST ABOUT NOW)
I however hate the backgrounds they used for the new IU. I hope there's an option of restoring the old look with the new layout.
The icons I have no issues with. Divine rapier looked better before, but no one ever gets that unless for trolling the losing team so whatever...
His Master's Voice wrote:I like the new layout, glyph and courier positioning (even though I usually hotkey the donkey) and the indicator of what it's doing at the moment (just so that I can instantly rage that someone is taking a courier to bring him a salve when I should be getting my bottle JUST ABOUT NOW)
I however hate the backgrounds they used for the new IU. I hope there's an option of restoring the old look with the new layout.
The icons I have no issues with. Divine rapier looked better before, but no one ever gets that unless for trolling the losing team so whatever...
His Master's Voice wrote:I like the new layout, glyph and courier positioning (even though I usually hotkey the donkey) and the indicator of what it's doing at the moment (just so that I can instantly rage that someone is taking a courier to bring him a salve when I should be getting my bottle JUST ABOUT NOW)
I however hate the backgrounds they used for the new IU. I hope there's an option of restoring the old look with the new layout.
The icons I have no issues with. Divine rapier looked better before, but no one ever gets that unless for trolling the losing team so whatever...
Weaver disagrees with this statement.
Sorry Sol, I've been waiting for you to post for a LOOOOONG time for me to be able to do that.
So far I think my two favorites have to be Shadow Shaman and Zeus, though everyone complains about my Kill Securing when I play the Thundergod....
Soladrin wrote:Erm, seriously, rapier on weaver is legit.
In a very narrow set of circumstances.
I consider myself a pretty good Weaver player, but I'd be concerned about getting a divine on him. If the Enemy team had very few disables, and no Silence, then I could see it as legit. Granted, I wouldn't pick weaver if they had a lot of silence anyway, but the way people can sandbag picks right now, kind of sucks. Other than that though, I probably would not. And that's even if the game goes on that long.
Swordwind wrote:Gonna practise my Sven today, and maybe try out Enigma and Chen. Any tips?
Enigma is a great jungler so keep that in mind when playing. Before playing Chen go to Dota 2 wiki and memorize at least the big creep stats. You'll need to know what to persuade.
As for Sven, it depends on whether you want to play him as support or semi-carry. I'm guessing for practice games a semi-carry will be the only choice so just farm a lot (you've got a great attack animation) and get some basic mana regen early as his mana pool is abysmal and you're not much good without your stun. You want Storm Hammer and Cleave early, with God's Strength at normal levels and a single point of Warcry until everything else is maxed.
Honestly I played Sven Early the same way I played Skeleton King early, to decent effect:
Stun-Stats-Stats-Stun-Whatever-Ult
I love being able to level my Stats. It kind of threw me off at first, but now that I am used to it.... I really like having a bigger mana pool and such when I need them.
Stats over Cleave is good if you're going for a support Sven, I'll give you that. Farming Sven doesn't get anything from the extra tankiness if he can't get enough CS to get his items. I guess you could skip getting Warcry past level 1 when both Hammer and Cleave are maxed, but considering that 12% extra movement speed is your only escape mech, I don't see how you can skip it altogether.
My typical Build for Zeus is Mana Boots, Refresher, Ahganims. Anyway, I'm split pushing, watching my team fight them at their main base, and they somehow get them all down to 100 health without killing a single one of them. Needless to say, they raged quite hard when I suddenly killed all five of them from across the map. Didn't even have to waste my Refresher on them XD
It's probably not a good build, but it's hilarious dealing 1200 damage to EVERYONE, especially the mages, who usually only have 1400 health.
Yeah, I know there are already some Dakka groups but what is the most popular one / most active? Somewhere where I could actually find somebody to play with...?
FYI: I know about the sticky, I just want to know which one CURRENTLY is at least semi active.
Slarg232 wrote:Needless to say, they raged quite hard when I suddenly killed all five of them from across the map. Didn't even have to waste my Refresher on them XD
See Zeus - buy Pipe for team fights. In fact, just buy Pipe anyway after someone else got the Meka, the number of lineups it's not good against is every small. Wouldn't save them there, what with the refresher but hey, it's cool to almost effectively blank that ulti. Troll the troll so to speak.
Played a few games of single draft. I love that feeling when you get a hero you never played before and win with them.
In my case, Slardar and Riki. I was really farmed in the second case. Managed to grab Butterfly for once, but not level 25 for some odd reason. The feeling of a successful solo gank is great though.
Anyone know the word on when it's going to be released? I signed up for the beta the first day it was announced, but given that I haven't snagged access yet I don't have high hopes for it any time soon.
Anyone got any advice for Night Hunter? I've heard he is a decent ganker during the Day, but he's the Evil Incarnate Ganker From Hell during the Night....
Slarg232 wrote:Anyone got any advice for Night Hunter? I've heard he is a decent ganker during the Day, but he's the Evil Incarnate Ganker From Hell during the Night....
You have to be pretty ballsy to play Night Stalker. You really have to gank well during your first night, or you will be deadweight the rest of the game.
Play him in either Solo Mid, or in the Short lane.
Max Void, followed by Hunter in the night first. You can use Your ultimate at Nighttime, to extend the night as well. Urn, Phase, and Vanguard are core. Just Gank Gank Gank.
I found that Night Stalker is about as fun as it gets, 50% of the time. The other 50%, not so much.
Though it would have been alot better if I had some god damn support. Two of them, Map Hacks up and running so I KNOW there aren't any others there, Tell them this, and go Tower Diving.... Only for everyone else to decide to sit this one out.....
Just as an aside, I know this is the DotA2 Thread but its an interesting tidbit that isn't worthy of a thread in its own right, but as a related issue LoL has announced the implementation of a full spectator mode and I think we all know why that decision was made. Looks like DotA2 is already throwing its weight around in the genre.
Soladrin wrote:Actually, it's more of a case of LoL just not being much of a competitive game in all honousty.
I'm not talking about that. One of the coolest things I thought when I opened the DotA client was the spectate games. That's awesome. People have asked Riot to do something like that for years and Riots always said no until now. I doubt it's a coincidence they're implementing the feature now that DotA2 is back in the forefront of the genre.
I said in another thread I was really interested in how DotA2 would effect the other Moba's, and this is the first clear sign that it is effecting them (from a technical stand point).
To be honest, I still think anyone who is properly invested in MOBA's, and not just the persistent account with all your goodies, is going to switch over to dota2. It's simply the most balanced and complex MOBA out there.
I think it's more of the fact that no matter who you pick in DotA, your a god damn badass. Shadow Shaman for instance; by himself, he's worthless. But once you get good enough with him where you can lock down three of hte other five people.... You contribute. You just caused your team to win. Sure, you didn't get the kills, but your team KNOWS you did it.
LoL isn't like this; it's basically everyone is a Meatsheild for the Carry.
On an unrelated note, I'm looking for a Ganker, and can't decide between Windrunner and Bloodseeker. Any tips for the two of those?
Soladrin wrote:Ah, fair enough. Yeah I'll agree with that.
To be honest, I still think anyone who is properly invested in MOBA's, and not just the persistent account with all your goodies, is going to switch over to dota2. It's simply the most balanced and complex MOBA out there.
I don't know. LoL Appeals to a different audience than Dota does, so I doubt we'll see a massive exodus. HoN has a lot of people invested in it as well, I know the competitive teams have already for the most part switched to Dota 2, but I don't know if the Casual player base is going to.
LoL will retain both its competitive scene of ex-DotA players and its lots and lots of casual players. Nobody that is seriously wanting a balanced game that is truly competitive plays this. The "pro" players in LoL are ex-DotA players who find it really easy to dominate everyone else. Same reason why Kenyan people always win marathons and races.
DotA will continue to be the best game, as it always was.
LoL will retain both its competitive scene of ex-DotA players and its lots and lots of casual players. Nobody that is seriously wanting a balanced game that is truly competitive plays this. The "pro" players in LoL are ex-DotA players who find it really easy to dominate everyone else. Same reason why Kenyan people always win marathons and races.
DotA will continue to be the best game, as it always was.
Player: Karon
Level 21
Match History:
Normal Game: Teemo. 7/16/12 Defeat.
Coop vs. AI: Teemo. 15/5/14. Victory
Coop vs AI: Caitlyn. 4/13/9 Defeat
Co-op vs AI: Graves. 13/7/14 Victory
Co-op vs AI: Graves. 2/9/4 Defeat
Co-op vs AI: Teemo. 24/9/15 Victory
All taking place on January 8th, 2012.
If the game takes no skill, how in the HELL does one lose to Bots? That was even before the Great Rise of the Bots...... There IS a reason why "I Survived Karthus Bot 2012" is a Meme on the LoL forums...
Yeah, I know, but I just hate it when people don't put their money where their mouth is.....
And I'm not saying I'm the greatest player ever either, that's not the point I'm trying to make; You look at my stats, and the first 7 matches on my History are Ranked or Custom (ARAM) loses. But I'm not saying the game takes no skill, either.....
You know, for some reason, I HATE going against Bane, but I have no problem fighting Lion or Rhasta. Their the same basic thing, (LOTS and LOTS of CC), but Bane's the only one that pisses me off.
Slarg232 wrote:You know, for some reason, I HATE going against Bane, but I have no problem fighting Lion or Rhasta. Their the same basic thing, (LOTS and LOTS of CC), but Bane's the only one that pisses me off.
A good Bane can be a total pain. He can pretty much shut down three people at once, with enfeeble destroying right click damage. I'm not a fan of the Horsebane model though.
I can't wait till Naga is in the game. She hard counters Lycan, is impossible to Gank, and can turn a team fight in an instant.
I think I played Naga during my very breif DotA stint (Seriously, I bought Warcraft 3 to see what DotA was like, two days later got into the Beta). She's the one with the Spellsheild, and the serpent thingy that restores mana per hit, correct?
Honestly, the only character I'm looking forward to is Mortred, though Wisp sounds fun as well.
Also, I've fallen in love with SIngle Draft, and learnt how awesome Huskar can be.
I then learnt how terrible I can be with Vengeful Spirit, but can still save the team by a few swaps. Then I learnt how plain terrible I am with Windrunner.
Slarg232 wrote:I think I played Naga during my very breif DotA stint (Seriously, I bought Warcraft 3 to see what DotA was like, two days later got into the Beta). She's the one with the Spellsheild, and the serpent thingy that restores mana per hit, correct?
Honestly, the only character I'm looking forward to is Mortred, though Wisp sounds fun as well.
That's Medusa, who is the hard carry, of Hard carries.
Bassicly, Her net goes through BKB, which in itself, is great. When Someone BKBs, She pops her ult, which will put the rest of the enemy team in range, to sleep. The Range is MASSIVE, so there is no way anyone on the enemy team is going to be able to do anything, until the duration is up. She then Nets, and the team focuses down the BKB Carry. Ultimate counter to Lycan, and really, turning a 5v5 into a 1v5, into a 4v5 is great.
Also, I've fallen in love with SIngle Draft, and learnt how awesome Huskar can be.
I then learnt how terrible I can be with Vengeful Spirit, but can still save the team by a few swaps. Then I learnt how plain terrible I am with Windrunner.
VS is there to die, and save teammates, lol. Sounds like you played her right to me.
Husk is a great snowball hero. Picking him early can kind of suck, then the enemy may pick someone like Necrolyte.
Swordwind wrote:Pity the current metagame calls for hard fast pushes. Shadow Shaman and Leshrac are the biggest shiners now, with Chen right after.
Chen is actually the most competitive pick of those three, followed by Leshrac. You don't see Shadow Shaman a lot in pro games. Furion is probably the most competitive push pick of them all though.
Swordwind wrote:Pity the current metagame calls for hard fast pushes. Shadow Shaman and Leshrac are the biggest shiners now, with Chen right after.
Chen is actually the most competitive pick of those three, followed by Leshrac. You don't see Shadow Shaman a lot in pro games. Furion is probably the most competitive push pick of them all though.
He's always banned, so I don't see him much. I should watch more competitive when I have time.
I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say Khazrak; Unless it truely was Beatman, in which case you should be ashamed.
These are much more impressive, and I withdraw the accusation. However, you haven't played since October of last year, things have changed for the better.
Slarg232 wrote:I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say Khazrak; Unless it truely was Beatman, in which case you should be ashamed.
These are much more impressive, and I withdraw the accusation. However, you haven't played since October of last year, things have changed for the better.
Has anybody else seen a beige bar next to the power button in the upper right of the client? It seems to lead to a backpack, although I can't see what's in it. I guess this is an item feature they're putting in at some future point, like TF2 items.
Whatever it is, I'm sick of getting "new items in your inventory" messages whenever I log in
I don't like Brewmaster's new look. Looks like he spent too much time in Jersey.
Yeah, I prefer the old one as well.
Looks like we may get lucky, and get more than one Hero next time. A lot are almost Done. Ogre Magi has his Icons, and everything done, so he's likely next. Mortred does as well. Chaos Knight looks almost done, but doesn't have his Icons yet, so I don't think he's ready. Treant has his Icons, portrait, and particle effects almost done. Dirge is getting closer, and so Is Luna.
Slarg232 wrote:So who all are good characters to Counter PL? Earthshaker has to be a Hard Counter, but who else should I be looking at?
Kunkka and ES are probably the best at destroying him. Anyone with strong AoE damage does a number though. Pugna, Lesh, DP, Bat, Lina, Jakiro. Anyone with Short Cooldown AoE Nukes.
Radiance.
However, PL does exceptionally well, at single target heroes like Sniper, as it is very easy to get confused early on. Shut down PL early game, with some dust, and nukes, and he won't be very terrifying late game.
So if I'm laning against PL as Zeus, I want to level his Q instead of his W..... Great, don't even have to switch characters
DP= Death Prophet. 4 Sec CD Carrion Swarm, and her ult.
Well, as Zeus you always want to have at least one lvl in Arc lightning, for static Field damage anyway. He can't generate that many illusions during the laming phase, so you still want to max Lightning Bolt first, he doesn't deal well with big nukes early on.
Soladrin wrote:Point is, once PL get's manta your still boned, AOE be damned, he's one of my fav heroes.
Power threads, Vladimirs, Manta, and the rest as the line up demands.
Vlads is a terrible Item on PL. Radiance is much much better, than Manta as well. I'd also take a diffusal before Manta as well. Manta after that would be awesome, as I like my illusions generating more illusions, but I'd have to get Radi and Diffusal first.
Oh wait... yeah they changed manta a long time ago... completely forgot about that xD It used to be part of it. Before Dota 2 I had a LOOOOOOONG break from dota.
Gah damn, why are LoL players so god damn slowed..... "Character X has a move that forces you to move out of position in order to do anything, OP!!!!!!"
Me: "Character Y has a move that forces you to move out of position in order to do anything, shouldn't this be looked at?" Them: "TOTALLY BALANCED, NOOB!"
Sheesh.... at least DotA gives you stuff that PREVENTS this sort of thing (Axe killing Death/Magic Immune targets for instance).....
Slarg232 wrote:So I know that SPirit Breaker is often considered a Pub Stomp Champ, but does he have any merit in organized play at all?
He's decent if you're going for mid game ownage and ganking heavy lineups. However due to the nature of current pro play, there are better options in any category where SB is good.
There seems to be a lot of debate, about what heroes, if any we may get in the patch this week.
There does seem to be some strong indication that we may get Phantom Assassin AND Chaos Knight. That would be pretty amazing if so. We may get nothing, though the have been good at giving us heroes lately!
I'd say they should fix what they've broken with the last update before they go around adding new content. The dashboard is messed up and the hero picker is in shambles.
No test patch up today, as it is going to be a larger than Normal patch.
This means we are 90% sure to at least get two heroes. We may even get more.
The Devs also joked, that they will be proving Cyborgmatt wrong. This may mean that there is no Chaos Knight coming. I think he's still probably coming, but it's a possibility he may have been replaced by someone that's also close to being finished.
Sasori wrote:No test patch up today, as it is going to be a larger than Normal patch.
This means we are 90% sure to at least get two heroes. We may even get more.
The Devs also joked, that they will be proving Cyborgmatt wrong. This may mean that there is no Chaos Knight coming. I think he's still probably coming, but it's a possibility he may have been replaced by someone that's also close to being finished.
You are now the one I shall blame if Chaos Knight doesn't make an appearance.
We're getting a nice peek at what the In-game shop will offer.
Will all the extra work they are putting in to prepare for the international, and with the stuff in the shop, I would not be surprised if they release Dota 2, around the time of the upcoming international.
“item_name” “50% Battle Bonus (6 Days)”
“item_description” “Use this item to increase your rate of earning Battle Points for 6 days by 50%. Additionally, everyone else in games you play receive 10% extra Battle Points (this bonus stacks).”
Heh. Sounds like they may be following LoL's model for champion purchasing. I've always been deeply impressed with the idea of 10 rotating free to play champions, with the option to purchase or earn through combat any other champions you desire.
Gitzbitah wrote:Heh. Sounds like they may be following LoL's model for champion purchasing.
Battle Points are most likely used to either buy cosmetic upgrades, chests or increase your chance of getting a drop during a game. They WILL NOT force you to buy heroes, that doesn't make any business sense.
Gitzbitah wrote:Heh. Sounds like they may be following LoL's model for champion purchasing. I've always been deeply impressed with the idea of 10 rotating free to play champions, with the option to purchase or earn through combat any other champions you desire.
That's a terrible system and Valve knows it. They would never ruin the game with a bs moneygrab system.
All heroes will be unlocked from the start - I have no idea what Battle Points are. As of now, all they are is experience points for your account.
Gitzbitah wrote:Heh. Sounds like they may be following LoL's model for champion purchasing. I've always been deeply impressed with the idea of 10 rotating free to play champions, with the option to purchase or earn through combat any other champions you desire.
That's a terrible system and Valve knows it. They would never ruin the game with a bs moneygrab system.
All heroes will be unlocked from the start - I have no idea what Battle Points are. As of now, all they are is experience points for your account.
Yes, because Valve DOESN'T force you to buy keys to open items you never can use otherwise. That's NOT bs in the least..... Oh wait, it's in DotA 2 as well!
I'm afraid to say it, but your probably going to have buy heroes.....
I don't see the problem with the buy heroes model :/ So long as they are attainable to all people regardless of whether they pay real cash.
That said, the recent announcement is odd, but I don't take it as definitive that they will use the same model as LoL. The most obvious answer to me is that there will by a micro/in-game system to buy accessories, sort of like LoL skins but with a more customizable approach. EDIT: It's actually not that far removed from the TF2 system.
It's already been confirmed by Valve, that all heroes will be available to everyone without the need to purchase them. So, there is no need to worry about that.
Gitzbitah wrote:Heh. Sounds like they may be following LoL's model for champion purchasing. I've always been deeply impressed with the idea of 10 rotating free to play champions, with the option to purchase or earn through combat any other champions you desire.
That's a terrible system and Valve knows it. They would never ruin the game with a bs moneygrab system.
All heroes will be unlocked from the start - I have no idea what Battle Points are. As of now, all they are is experience points for your account.
Yes, because Valve DOESN'T force you to buy keys to open items you never can use otherwise. That's NOT bs in the least..... Oh wait, it's in DotA 2 as well!
I'm afraid to say it, but your probably going to have buy heroes.....
Except you are wrong, because its already been said all heroes will be available on release to everyone.
I'm afraid to say it but...you have no idea what you are talking about.
Is all I can find at the moment, but that just means the game will have all heroes on release. Not that they'll all be available for free use, though I'd like that. I'm quite happy with the idea of cosmetic purchases, and already want some of those shown.
Also
In his interview Gabe also stated clearly that he dislikes the freemium model, so don't expect anything similar to the model of LoL, for example. Well, it awaits to be seen, but knowing Valve - and trusting it - I kinda feel it is going to be an interesting and innovating model!
No, I said I'm fed up with community so I haven't played in weeks.
Besides, DotA hasn't been in my main games list for almost 2 years now. It's something I jump on for a month only to drop on the side of the road again for the rest of the year.
Is all I can find at the moment, but that just means the game will have all heroes on release. Not that they'll all be available for free use, though I'd like that. I'm quite happy with the idea of cosmetic purchases, and already want some of those shown.
Also
In his interview Gabe also stated clearly that he dislikes the freemium model, so don't expect anything similar to the model of LoL, for example. Well, it awaits to be seen, but knowing Valve - and trusting it - I kinda feel it is going to be an interesting and innovating model!
That's true, but as I said, it's promising they feel that way.
Frankly, I'm willing to put up with a lot, as I consider Dota 2 as it is now to be far and away superior to all else on the market (it's just I need more beta keys to get everyone I play LoL with to join me )
Regardless of the money bs, DotA(2) is clearly the best game of its type on the market.
It's not going to be pay-to-win, but if Valve allows trading and such I see a HUGE decline in the overall quality of the game.
Trading ruined the TF2 community in large part, and I don't want to see that happen to the DotA one.
Its not like DotA's community isn't gak already, but Trading would make it unbelievably bad.
I would MUCH prefer if the game was just $50-60 and just be done with it, but I knew deep down there was no chance when you consider the simple population chunk that China and Russia make up.
MrDwhitey wrote:Personally I feel trading of items will be in, considering how they're quite keen on it they already are (specifically the classic example being TF2).
I just hope it's managed in a way so as not to ruin the game. Also, I generally ignore the community, so I wouldn't know how bad it is at the moment.
Well, I know you played LoLIIRC.
Remember those BR's that would ruin every other game or so?
We deal with Russians AND BR's.
Less so BR's now that Valve put in a SA server in DotA 2, but the Ruskies who don't speak English are a huge menace in your games.
Its clear the Ruskies will get their own server hub now, and it really doesn't matter in the beta anyways, but yeah.
MrDwhitey wrote:Also, I generally ignore the community, so I wouldn't know how bad it is at the moment.
Its best you keep it that way
It seems to me that as more beta keys have gone out, the community has gotten worse than LoL's, which is just... Damn. I want it to go back to when I got my key and everyone was at least pseudo-nice XD
Yeah Karon, I remember that. They weren't all bad but.. hell, now we just blame the French.
LordofHats, whenever I play, even against people, I hardly ever see abuse, or even chat on my team bar "Roshan" or "gank top" or whatever. In LoL I have to put people on ignore every game if I solo queue.
When I first got my key and played my first few games, people were so nice that I thought I was in the twilight zone or something. I don't play DotA2 that much (haven't even touched it in like a month) but that slowly deteriorated for me XD
That actually sounds pretty awesome. I must agree, that is much more elegant than the LoL model. It was just my first experience with a premium game that did allow you to sample all of the content at one point or another.
So my next question- for someone who last played DoTA back when it was called DoTA allstars, what is a champion easy enough to learn on again that I won't embarrass my ancestors and cause my team to lose?
Lich or Tidehunter. Both need very little farm to be effective. Lich brings great laning and babysitting, a good nuke and quite a useful ulti. Tide is very durable, amazing teamfight ulti, and once he gets Blink Dagger he'll be a great initiator.
Gitzbitah wrote:Bwahahahah! You are the man Stormwind.
So my next question- for someone who last played DoTA back when it was called DoTA allstars, what is a champion easy enough to learn on again that I won't embarrass my ancestors and cause my team to lose?
I suggest you play several games with bots on the highest difficulty before doing regular matchmaking as well.
When I got my DotA 2 key back no October the 8th, I hadn't played it in over a month and I really needed to get used to it again. The bots aren't complete morons and will help you learn.
You cannot get those items from bot matches and AFAIK from custom lobbies either. It has to be a matchmaking game.
Would make sense, as it would prevent farming in 10 man groups (or just from multiple accounts).
Ok, now I'm rather angry. Way back when, I asked the DotA community which character Ra was a copy of:
Ra:
Q: Uses his health, heals an ally or deals damage to an enemy.
W: Places a sheild upon your target, after the sheild takes so much damage, it explodes.
E: Every time he takes damage, he gains health regen.
R: For 5 (7) seconds, all incoming damage is converted to healing.
Who does that sound like? Damn dirty liars......
Abaddon just might have become my favorite hero....
Slarg232 wrote:Also, anyone know how to finish this build for Sven? Urn -> Treads -> Armlet -> Mask of Madness -> ?
Assuming I don't need BKB, Gem, or Dust.
Just go full carry with Shivas or maybe even a Heart, if you're not doing support. Blademail looks fun too, though I'm not sure it counts just the base damage or calculates the MoM increase, never tried it.
Considering the recently released heroes, we might see Medusa next. Or Naga. Or Nyx. Or whatever. It's like Valve decided to troll Cyborgmatt to the ground...
I have no idea what being a "biker" is in the context of DotA.
Luna has to farm to be effective late game - she is a hard carry through and through.
Mirana is a semi-carry and can be much more versatile than Luna with her ganking potential. She doesn't have to farm nearly as much as a Luna/Antimage.
My best score so far was with Enchantress though, 18/0/9, thanks to a whole load of kill stealing. 
Looks like he spent too much time in Jersey.
