According to BoW this are the Stormtalon Rules as found in June WD:

Space Marine Stormtalon Gunship
130pts + upgrades

BS4 AV11
Fast Skimmer
Supersonic
Aerial Assault
Ceramite Plating
Deep Strike
No transporting ability

Comes with Twin linked Assault Cannons and a Twin linked Heavy Bolter than can be upgraded to the following
Twin linked Lascannon
Typhoon Missle Launcher
Sky Hammer Missle Launcher 60" S7 AP4 Heavy 3

Escort Craft
Can be attached to a unit of deep strikers, and will appear within 6" of the deepstriking unit

Hover Strike
Can convert to a skimmer but not move in order to recieve a +1 to BS

While the hover strike and escort craft rule seems like a nice gimmick, the stormtalon still strikes me as quite expensive considering it's rather soft armor.

The weapon option make it either an anti-infantry (HB & AC) or light-to-medium vehicle killer (AC & SHML) or both (AC & TML). The lascannon will very likely be too expensive to even consider.

My first question...

Can Blood Angels take them?

Not unless there is another part of the rules, tbe leaked pages clearly show this as an upgrade for Codex Marines...

But is there clarification on the aerial assault and supersonic rules?

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:But is there clarification on the aerial assault and supersonic rules?

Clearly you don't play against Dark Eldar very much.

Real shame they're only for Codex marines, cos I would've bought 3 for my BA

Hopefully the points will be high enough to keep the SM players to buy it.

What I don't get is why GW has to invent new weapons for every new unit they make. The skyhammers are just not necessary.

I would play it with bolters and assaults as an escort for a Storm Eagle filled with terminators.

What is the current fetish with making all ne space marines vehicle immune to Melta?


Seriously, the Assault Ram i can understand, the Storm Raven....maybe as it coudl coem from orbit.

The Talon?!

i can only assume they want no-one takign meltas in 6th Ed (althogh if that was the case, why can only marines ignore them?!)

Praxiss wrote:What is the current fetish with making all ne space marines vehicle immune to Melta?


Seriously, the Assault Ram i can understand, the Storm Raven....maybe as it coudl coem from orbit.

The Talon?!

i can only assume they want no-one takign meltas in 6th Ed (althogh if that was the case, why can only marines ignore them?!)

Its still only AV 11, melta will still work OK against it. With 12" move and still being able to fire it should be able to get som nice side shots. I think its viability depsnds alot on the cost of the Typhoon/Skyhammer upgrade. Could be interseting for Podding armies I guess.

Yeah, i am now terrified of my friends multi-dread drop army (likes to drop pod a 3 model unit of Venrable, ironclad and regular dreads).

With this thing not only can they climb and blast stuff, the now get a gunboat escort as well.

We will have to see how that works when/if deep trikign is changed in 6th Ed (i can only assume it is since there are various units in the 'cron codex who can play with when units can DS in etc)

Actually the rules aren't too shabby, super fast, but doesn't fill a void in the codex like I figured it would (this is basically a beefed up speeder)

tedurur wrote: I think its viability depsnds alot on the cost of the Typhoon/Skyhammer upgrade.

Yeah, I agree. Disregarding potential cost factors, AC&TML seems the best combo, as it can threaten a very wide range of targets from MCs over light-and-medium vehicles to hordes. I fear that the price of that upgrade will be quite restrictive though.

Darkseid wrote:

tedurur wrote: I think its viability depsnds alot on the cost of the Typhoon/Skyhammer upgrade.

Yeah, I agree. Disregarding potential cost factors, AC&TML seems the best combo, as it can threaten a very wide range of targets from MCs over light-and-medium vehicles to hordes. I fear that the price of that upgrade will be quite restrictive though.

Basically what we have is a slightly upgraded faster landspeeder that will cost a lot more.

Praxiss wrote:What is the current fetish with making all ne space marines vehicle immune to Melta?


Seriously, the Assault Ram i can understand, the Storm Raven....maybe as it coudl coem from orbit.

The Talon?!

i can only assume they want no-one takign meltas in 6th Ed (althogh if that was the case, why can only marines ignore them?!)

It feels like the worst of game design moves.

"Our most popular army is taking a beating because of overexstensive use of melta".
"Let's give all the new untis melta protection".

AV11 with ceramite plating happens to best be countered with missile launchers. The cheapest SM heavy weapon (compared to what you get).
Wonder how they will write a missile launcher protection for next edition.

"Flyers are extremely agile and as such can dodge incoming shooting attacks on a roll os a 3+"

OR

"When in the atmosphere, flyers can deploy countermeasures such as chaff or flares to protect themselves. This is represented by flyers have a 3+ invulnerable save against shooting attack"

sgtspiff wrote:

Praxiss wrote:What is the current fetish with making all ne space marines vehicle immune to Melta?


Seriously, the Assault Ram i can understand, the Storm Raven....maybe as it coudl coem from orbit.

The Talon?!

i can only assume they want no-one takign meltas in 6th Ed (althogh if that was the case, why can only marines ignore them?!)

It feels like the worst of game design moves.

"Our most popular army is taking a beating because of overexstensive use of melta".
"Let's give all the new untis melta protection".

AV11 with ceramite plating happens to best be countered with missile launchers. The cheapest SM heavy weapon (compared to what you get).
Wonder how they will write a missile launcher protection for next edition.

Or maybe they won't, and you're making a slippery slope argument. As someone else pointed out, protection from Melta doesn't help too much when your armor is only 12 at best.

In reality, SM vehicles do suck compared to other Chapter's vehicles. Not fast, doesn't have PotMS, and isn't part of an army that has tons of units that can replace vehicles anyway; SW and Dark Angels can field nearly anything to invalidate Preds, Vinds, and 'Saders of all kinds.

Aside from that, I don't believe for one second that GW gave them melta protection because SMs are their most popular army and are taking a beating. Every race's vehicles has some sort of major defense to breach; Tau has disruption pods, Guard have high AV vehicles, Dark Eldar and Eldar both have similar "gain cover against everything" rules, Orks and KFF, Necrons with quantum shielding, even Grey Knights with that psychic ability that removes shaken/stunned. Melta protection, compared to all those I mentioned, isn't that impressive.

Why the hell are all the new flyers as quick as the Dark Eldar vehicles?

Aren't we supposed to be the fastest around?

Lokas wrote:Why the hell are all the new flyers as quick as the Dark Eldar vehicles?

Aren't we supposed to be the fastest around?

Have you seen the model? Its basically a guided missile

The sky talon is pretty terrible, not being able to switch it's assault canon for a reasonably ranged weapon means that its 11 armor can't dart around at a standoff distance and it's wasting the ranged potential of all its other guns. What is the point of this thing? It fills absolutely no role that isn't better filled by a land speeder squadron. If it could switch its assault canon for a missile upgrade or it's HB for multi meltas then maybe I could see a use for it, but it's just painfully bad psyfleman fodder like this.

Praxiss wrote:What is the current fetish with making all ne space marines vehicle immune to Melta?

You'd be immune to Meltas too if you were capable of survivable atmospheric entry.

Platuan4th wrote:

Praxiss wrote:What is the current fetish with making all ne space marines vehicle immune to Melta?

You'd be immune to Meltas too if you were capable of survivable atmospheric entry.

You mean like every eldar, dark eldar, and necron flyer? Several IG planes too, the maurader for instance. In fact, why isn't the drop pod immune, it's clearly the most in need. Meltas don't even work that way, if they were immune to directed thermal energy then lasers and flamers wouldn't work. Meltas are some kind of weird microwave beam that functions dissimilarly from accruing heat via friction.

"Atmospheric entry" is badly applied handwavium for these vehicles.

The DE/Eldar/Necron flyers arent immune to melta....

ShumaGorath wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

Praxiss wrote:What is the current fetish with making all ne space marines vehicle immune to Melta?

You'd be immune to Meltas too if you were capable of survivable atmospheric entry.

You mean like every eldar, dark eldar, and necron flyer? Several IG planes too, the maurader for instance. In fact, why isn't the drop pod immune, it's clearly the most in need. Meltas don't even work that way, if they were immune to directed thermal energy then lasers and flamers wouldn't work. Meltas are some kind of weird microwave beam that functions dissimilarly from accruing heat via friction.

"Atmospheric entry" is badly applied handwavium for these vehicles.

Complain to GW, then. That's the actual excuse used in the books. We also have no indication that Eldar or Necron flyers ARE capable of atmospheric entry.

Platuan4th wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

Praxiss wrote:What is the current fetish with making all ne space marines vehicle immune to Melta?

You'd be immune to Meltas too if you were capable of survivable atmospheric entry.

You mean like every eldar, dark eldar, and necron flyer? Several IG planes too, the maurader for instance. In fact, why isn't the drop pod immune, it's clearly the most in need. Meltas don't even work that way, if they were immune to directed thermal energy then lasers and flamers wouldn't work. Meltas are some kind of weird microwave beam that functions dissimilarly from accruing heat via friction.

"Atmospheric entry" is badly applied handwavium for these vehicles.

Complain to GW, then. That's the actual excuse used in the books. We also have no indication that Eldar or Necron flyers ARE capable of Atmospheric entry.

If I had a direct line to gw they'd get an earful about every part of the stormtalon.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

Praxiss wrote:What is the current fetish with making all ne space marines vehicle immune to Melta?

You'd be immune to Meltas too if you were capable of survivable atmospheric entry.

You mean like every eldar, dark eldar, and necron flyer? Several IG planes too, the maurader for instance. In fact, why isn't the drop pod immune, it's clearly the most in need. Meltas don't even work that way, if they were immune to directed thermal energy then lasers and flamers wouldn't work. Meltas are some kind of weird microwave beam that functions dissimilarly from accruing heat via friction.

"Atmospheric entry" is badly applied handwavium for these vehicles.

Complain to GW, then. That's the actual excuse used in the books. We also have no indication that Eldar or Necron flyers ARE capable of Atmospheric entry.

If I had a direct line to gw they'd get an earful about every part of the stormtalon.

They need it.

In the 5th edition meta, AV11 just dies to easily to be worth 150 points.

Its a cool model, and I would enjoy having some beef to my marine list, but its overcosted by about 20%. If it was 130 for the AC/CML I would buy it.

Lots of unknowns, like what FOC slot, how much are the upgrades, are there other upgrades besides weaponry, etc. The possibility of squadrons of these ala Valkyries is also there (although unlikely).

On first glance its not really doing all that much for your typical SM army. We already get those weapons in spades, on cheaper and more resilient platforms. Its the maneuverable that sets it apart but not sure that alone is gonna make it worth while in most lists. I suppose it might fit into the more standard shooty spam marine list (eg 3x pred, 3x dread style, 3x shooty FA lists) if the upgrade costs aren't too high, but I am assuming a decent setup for the talon will be in the 150 point range, where just taking typhoons and whatnot makes more sense.

I could see a more death from above all drop pod or similar style themed list taking these as much needed long range support. The escort rule does seem to tie in with drop pod assault quite nicely and assuming its a heavy or FA should slot in fine in such a list. That's probably the intent of the designers and will likely be where you see them taken for the most part.

What is supersonic?

winterman wrote:I could see a more death from above all drop pod or similar style themed list taking these as much needed long range support. The escort rule does seem to tie in with drop pod assault quite nicely and assuming its a heavy or FA should slot in fine in such a list. That's probably the intent of the designers and will likely be where you see them taken for the most part.

This.

The ability to clump your reserves is pretty handy, so when one comes in you get two. If this combines with drop pod assault, it can be very strong, giving you a few nice side shots on the first turn.

Though at 150 points, I'm still leary on how much good that model will do. Even with all its special tricks, it just dies to a stiff breeze.

Imperial Monkey wrote:What is supersonic?

Can turbo boost 36 inches. I think it also allows the vehicle to move 12" and fire all guns which is important for deep striking.

labmouse42 wrote:
Though at 150 points, I'm still leary on how much good that model will do. Even with all its special tricks, it just dies to a stiff breeze.

If the stormtalon is a FA unit, I will drop them with my two ironclad dreads. It's kinda hard for the opponents to not shoot the dread when it's in your face.

juraigamer wrote:

labmouse42 wrote:
Though at 150 points, I'm still leary on how much good that model will do. Even with all its special tricks, it just dies to a stiff breeze.

If the stormtalon is a FA unit, I will drop them with my two ironclad dreads. It's kinda hard for the opponents to not shoot the dread when it's in your face.

It's easy to ignore the stormtalon though.

ShumaGorath wrote:I think it also allows the vehicle to move 12" and fire all guns which is important for deep striking.

That's Aerial Assault.

Lokas wrote:Why the hell are all the new flyers as quick as the Dark Eldar vehicles?

Aren't we supposed to be the fastest around?

"Speed" went down the drain the moment the IG codex was released. These days your codex doesn't count unless it has at least one fast skimmer with Aerial Assault and Supersonic. And with the number of "safe" deep strike options around, maneuvering on the gaming board has never been less important. Any army can be anywhere on the board within any 2 turns. I won't be surprised if and when the new Eldar codex is released, all their vehicles will have the "Blink" rule: can move anywhere on the table within its movement phase.

How is it easy to ignore a twin-linked assault cannon in your rear armor?

But yeah, basically whether the Stormtalon is good or not all comes down to points. At AV11, an expensive model without uniquely useful capabilities likely won't be worth it-- but if the Stormtalon is comparatively cheap, I can definitely see it taking the field instead of LSTyphoons. The Skyhammer missile upgrade costs will be especially important, because if this is cheap I can definitely see Stormtalons taking the field in normal armies. Range, after all, is a defense all its own, AV11 is still better than AV10, and the Skyhammer profile is quite appealing, plus you have the assault cannons for backup.

On the other hand, if the Skyhammer and Cyclone/Typhoon missile costs are high, this will likely only see use in armies that can make use of the Escort rules, where it appears to provide a useful concentration of force that may be worth the premium over a Land Speeder.

How is it easy to ignore a twin-linked assault cannon in your rear armor?

At ~150 points? Pretty easy. Especially given the likelihood that it won't get rear armor since there won't be a gigantic empty space behind my tank for a large oval base flyer to land. To pay for itself in that scenario it'd have to hit a tank that doesn't exist in either of the codexes I use. It's going to die in the attempt, so if doesn't hit a worthwhile target than it's not a worthwhile use of its points. It's not doing anything two speeders won't likely do better. Its far too expensive to be a single target suicide unit with meh firepower.

IMO it seems a bit overpriced, but if the skyhammer/typhoon is cheap, I can see a use for it, I don't care if it's overpriced really, I like the model and the idea, so I'm probably gonna get it anyway.

Praxiss wrote:What is the current fetish with making all ne space marines vehicle immune to Melta?


Seriously, the Assault Ram i can understand, the Storm Raven....maybe as it coudl coem from orbit.

The Talon?!

If it's escorting drop pods, it will probably be entering the atmosphere.

Does it scatter with the "escort" rule? Do you place it before or after you roll for scatter for the unit it's escorting?

@ the dude asking about Drop Pods getting anti-melta: Drop Pods don't have the anti-melta rule because they're open-topped. The heat-shielding doors are open after they land, allowing the opponent's melta weapons access to the cream-filling inside.

dæl wrote:

Praxiss wrote:What is the current fetish with making all ne space marines vehicle immune to Melta?


Seriously, the Assault Ram i can understand, the Storm Raven....maybe as it coudl coem from orbit.

The Talon?!

If it's escorting drop pods, it will probably be entering the atmosphere.

And the drop pods aren't immune to melta.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

kronk wrote:Does it scatter with the "escort" rule? Do you place it before or after you roll for scatter for the unit it's escorting?

@ the dude asking about Drop Pods getting anti-melta: Drop Pods don't have the anti-melta rule because they're open-topped. The heat-shielding doors are open after they land, allowing the opponent's melta weapons access to the cream-filling inside.

That's a reasonable explanation. It doesn't explain why every other air/space vehicle in the imperium isn't immune, let alone necron, tau or eldar versions of the same thing.

ShumaGorath wrote:

dæl wrote:

Praxiss wrote:What is the current fetish with making all ne space marines vehicle immune to Melta?


Seriously, the Assault Ram i can understand, the Storm Raven....maybe as it coudl coem from orbit.

The Talon?!

If it's escorting drop pods, it will probably be entering the atmosphere.

And the drop pods aren't immune to melta.

See above, open topped.

Codex Space Marines wrote:protected from the incandescent rage of atmospheric re-entry only by the Drop Pod's ceremite armour plating

they would be immune if the doors stayed shut.

edit: you did see above, no worries

Is there any news on FO slot yet? Keen to see where it fits in with the rest of the army. I'd almost prefer HS so it could fit in with an army with land speeders, and Vanguards.

Do these improve Vanguards at all? Heroic Intervention + Escort seem synergistic.

dæl wrote:Is there any news on FO slot yet?

It has a big 'fast attack' icon on the top intake, so I figure it will be fast attack?!

Do these improve Vanguards at all? Heroic Intervention + Escort seem synergistic.

How do they seem synergistic?

ShumaGorath wrote:How do they seem synergistic?

Seems to me that they could arrive simultaneously and the stormtalon could cause some ranged damage, then the vanguards could tie up whatever unit/s are the most threatening to the stormtalon, be it a rifleman dread, or a unit of melta heavy infantry. Just a thought.

Darkseid wrote:It has a big 'fast attack' icon on the top intake, so I figure it will be fast attack?!

I think that's the icon for assault marines, but it probably will be FA, I guess that will probably suit everyone bar me.

ShumaGorath wrote:

juraigamer wrote:

labmouse42 wrote:
Though at 150 points, I'm still leary on how much good that model will do. Even with all its special tricks, it just dies to a stiff breeze.

If the stormtalon is a FA unit, I will drop them with my two ironclad dreads. It's kinda hard for the opponents to not shoot the dread when it's in your face.

It's easy to ignore the stormtalon though.

Can you not understand that, that alone IS the idea. The ability to drop it with another unit means a couple of things are going to happen. 1) Your opponent needs to rethink what he is shooting at. 2) your opponent will have to allocate more shooting/assaulting in order to deal with whats left over.

It is real simple, give your opponent a OH factor that they have to respond to. If you can do it on turn 1 ALL THE BETTER!

dæl wrote:Seems to me that they could arrive simultaneously and the stormtalon could cause some ranged damage, then the vanguards could tie up whatever unit/s are the most threatening to the stormtalon, be it a rifleman dread, or a unit of melta heavy infantry. Just a thought.

Or the stormtalon will shoot a target, they'll pull models out of charge range, and the vanguards will wonder what they'll do after getting blown off the table. The stormtalons not like an ironclad dread or some dropping assault marines, and the primary targets of the vanguard aren't really what's threatening the stormtalon (everything except lone meltaguns in squads). You're better off having it guide in an ironclad so that they enemy is forced to divide their anti armor firepower between multiple vehicles (which itself is probably not great since you can have another dread instead). This is ignoring the fact that no amount of synergy will make vanguard vets worth their outrageous point cost. If the escort reduces deep strike penalties though it could be useful.

I would think that the Talon could be a solid addition to a unit of Sternguard w/Lysander in a pod. Could be fun if depending on the escort rules.

Lysenis wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

juraigamer wrote:

labmouse42 wrote:
Though at 150 points, I'm still leary on how much good that model will do. Even with all its special tricks, it just dies to a stiff breeze.

If the stormtalon is a FA unit, I will drop them with my two ironclad dreads. It's kinda hard for the opponents to not shoot the dread when it's in your face.

It's easy to ignore the stormtalon though.

Can you not understand that, that alone IS the idea. The ability to drop it with another unit means a couple of things are going to happen. 1) Your opponent needs to rethink what he is shooting at. 2) your opponent will have to allocate more shooting/assaulting in order to deal with whats left over.

It is real simple, give your opponent a OH factor that they have to respond to. If you can do it on turn 1 ALL THE BETTER!

There are better units to drop, when the opponent can easily ignore something because it isn't very dangerous (one assault canon and 2 missile shots is dangerous, but not overly so, it won't pay for itself in one turn and it wont last a second). Treating it like a dramatically worse ravager won't make it good, the points your spending on it could just be another IC dread, a dev squad, or some speeders. None of which are themselves all that great, yet are better.

Your saying its not a threat and now your saying that it wont last till turn 2. Please tell that you actually play 40k. Because last time I checked it was overly possible for a Rhino to last a full 6 rounds of play.

On top of that you get to drop it anywhere within 6" that means really great access to rear armor on turn 1 even with an autocannon it is still not a bad buy and it has Aerial Assault so whats the issue? And its 4 autocannon shots that are rending and TL as well as 2 TL missile shots or 3 TL Autocannon shots, or a TL Lascannon shot.

Your saying its not a threat and now your saying that it wont last till turn 2. Please tell that you actually play 40k. Because last time I checked it was overly possible for a Rhino to last a full 6 rounds of play.

Yes, the rhino isn't intrinsically dangerous. It's also a fifth the points of a stormtalon and you aren't deep striking it to point blank range as you suggested.

Anything within the rules is possible in 40k, the stormtalon may even survive and do a good job. It's unlikely though, it's too expensive and frail to get much use out of it's weapons and the point of armor saturation isn't to give the opponent easy choices.

On top of that you get to drop it anywhere within 6" that means really great access to rear armor on turn 1 even with an autocannon it is still not a bad buy and it has Aerial Assault so whats the issue?

Who exactly is presenting the rear of their vehicles when they see a drop podding marine army? Show me that player, I would like to play against him. Hell, show me the player that even bothers deploying against an IC spam drop pod list.

And its 4 autocannon shots that are rending and TL as well as 2 TL missile shots or 3 TL Autocannon shots, or a TL Lascannon shot.

It can't even have autocanons and if that's all you want just save a dime and buy a rifleman dread.

I have a feeling this has something to do with 6th.

The necron deathmarks have their special ability about enemy deep strikers, and maybe there will be a rule about deep striking, initiative shooting, etc. Who knows?

Supersonic, etc, rules might be different in 6th.

Either way I feel this is a vehicle with rules designed for 6th edition and the deep strike bodyguard rule might be extremely useful in the next edition.

I'm personally more of a Fan of the Valkyries (being that im a guard player ) But the Weapon Abilities make it more akain to a smaller and more manuverable Vulture gunship . What i would like to know is What does the misc. Special Rules do ? i don't know if that would be copyright infringment but if so . I would love to see one of those in action ( granted it was on my team) considerable it seems far more effective then the Vulture (price , Weapons , special Abilities ect. )

ShumaGorath wrote:

Your saying its not a threat and now your saying that it wont last till turn 2. Please tell that you actually play 40k. Because last time I checked it was overly possible for a Rhino to last a full 6 rounds of play.

Yes, the rhino isn't intrinsically dangerous. It's also a fifth the points of a stormtalon and you aren't deep striking it to point blank range as you suggested.

Anything within the rules is possible in 40k, the stormtalon may even survive and do a good job. It's unlikely though, it's too expensive and frail to get much use out of it's weapons and the point of armor saturation isn't to give the opponent easy choices.

On top of that you get to drop it anywhere within 6" that means really great access to rear armor on turn 1 even with an autocannon it is still not a bad buy and it has Aerial Assault so whats the issue?

Who exactly is presenting the rear of their vehicles when they see a drop podding marine army? Show me that player, I would like to play against him. Hell, show me the player that even bothers deploying against an IC spam drop pod list.

And its 4 autocannon shots that are rending and TL as well as 2 TL missile shots or 3 TL Autocannon shots, or a TL Lascannon shot.

It can't even have autocanons and if that's all you want just save a dime and buy a rifleman dread.

Wow did you now see the Skyhammer Missiles. Autocannon stats 60" and hev3 read please and reconsider. As for people deploying against a drop spam, now your just limiting its uses. Who needs drop spam having it support 1 to 2 dreads that drop in on turn 1 is great. Having it support a sternguard veteran drop in on turn 1 or later is good as well. HELL having it support a heroic intervention vanguard squad is fething amazing! The simple fact that it has complete transport poping capability makes it a great pick.

Praxiss wrote:What is the current fetish with making all ne space marines vehicle immune to Melta?


Seriously, the Assault Ram i can understand, the Storm Raven....maybe as it coudl coem from orbit.

The Talon?!

i can only assume they want no-one takign meltas in 6th Ed (althogh if that was the case, why can only marines ignore them?!)

My solution to this , that in my Army i never use Melta i always seem to favor Plasma ( My guard melt a fourth of the time but mehh ) But i never fight any Armies that employ multiple high AV Vehicales

Wow did you now see the Skyhammer Missiles. Autocannon stats 60" and hev3 read please and reconsider.

I did see them. They aren't called auto canons and they don't shoot four times and rend, that's the assault canon.

As for people deploying against a drop spam, now your just limiting its uses. Who needs drop spam having it support 1 to 2 dreads that drop in on turn 1 is great.

Qualify great. If great means "cost effective" then it's not great.

Having it support a sternguard veteran drop in on turn 1 or later is good as well.

So you're throwing about 500 points into what amounts to one turn of shooting to pop a rhino or maybe a tank and do some damage to a single squad followed by the total loss of 500 points due to the lack of assault capacity of the two units. If you're not going all in then such a tactic is inherently flawed since you're presenting high value defenseless targets for a single turn of shooting that isn't worth 500 points.

HELL having it support a heroic intervention vanguard squad is fething amazing!

I don't think we've been playing the same game.

The simple fact that it has complete transport poping capability makes it a great pick.

Not at that cost and that level of frailty. Buy an autocanon/lascanon pred if you want armor popping. Get four devastators. Get a rifleman. All cheaper, more resilient, and just as good at popping rhinos.

Hulksmash wrote:I would think that the Talon could be a solid addition to a unit of Sternguard w/Lysander in a pod. Could be fun if depending on the escort rules.

This... I'm already trying to reorganize my budget to get 2 other these, just for letting them drop in with 20 sternguard, 10 scouts, and 1 ironclad (with Lysander in tow).

An auto las pred is 135 on its own. That is 5 points more then the talon. Now it is likely the typhoon and skyhammer are roughly 25 points more to add either but looking at mathhammer TL is usually better then non TL. The. Add on 3 S7 shots and 4 S6 rending shots all TL.

Do you want the math hammer on 4 non TL shots AND THEN the damage table?

As for my grammatical error, you knew what I meant so stop being a 2d bigot

An auto las pred is 135 on its own. That is 5 points more then the talon. Now it is likely the typhoon and skyhammer are roughly 25 points more to add either but looking at mathhammer TL is usually better then non TL. The. Add on 3 S7 shots and 4 S6 rending shots all TL.

Do you want the math hammer on 4 non TL shots AND THEN the damage table?

Av13 on the pred. Av11 is exceptionally vulnerable. That predator is going to get several more turns of shooting then the talon.

Do you want the math hammer on 4 non TL shots AND THEN the damage table?

Do you want to mathhammer a longfang squad shooting at a skytalon vs a predator?

As for my grammatical error, you knew what I meant so stop being a 2d bigot

Just call things what they are.

According to the thread on Warseer, the escort rule applies to units entering from reserve, NOT Deep Strike

Escort craft: If a stormtalon is kept in reserve, it can be assigned to escort any friendly unit in reserve with the following exceptions:
A stormtalon cannot escort a unit arriving by Deep Strike.
One stormtalon cannot escort another stormtalon.
A maximum of one stormtalon can escort each unit.
If this is done, do not make reserve rolls for the stormtalon. Instead it arrives at the same time as the unit it is escorting. The stormtalon must move onto the board within 6" of the point that the unit it is escorting entered by.

Its a Fast Attack choice, cannot be squadroned, and is only for C:SM. Missiles are powerfist cost, lascannons a bit cheaper.

dæl wrote:According to the thread on Warseer, the escort rule applies to units entering from reserve, NOT Deep Strike

Escort craft: If a stormtalon is kept in reserve, it can be assigned to escort any friendly unit in reserve with the following exceptions:
A stormtalon cannot escort a unit arriving by Deep Strike.
One stormtalon cannot escort another stormtalon.
A maximum of one stormtalon can escort each unit.
If this is done, do not make reserve rolls for the stormtalon. Instead it arrives at the same time as the unit it is escorting. The stormtalon must move onto the board within 6" of the point that the unit it is escorting entered by.

Its a Fast Attack choice, cannot be squadroned, and is only for C:SM. Missiles are powerfist cost, lascannons a bit cheaper.

Wow, well there goes the only vaguely useful ability it had.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Its a Fast Attack choice, cannot be squadroned, and is only for C:SM. Missiles are powerfist cost, lascannons a bit cheaper.

Wow, well there goes the only vaguely useful ability it had.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Its a Fast Attack choice, cannot be squadroned, and is only for C:SM. Missiles are powerfist cost, lascannons a bit cheaper.

Wow, well there goes the only vaguely useful ability it had.

Let's revisit this in six months or so....

Escort might prove handy for outflankers, now who useful can outflank in C:SM?

dæl wrote:Escort might prove handy for outflankers, now who useful can outflank in C:SM?

Khan gives Outflank.

revackey wrote:

dæl wrote:Escort might prove handy for outflankers, now who useful can outflank in C:SM?

Khan gives Outflank.

Isn't the WD battle report White Scars?

Not a clue, I haven't actually seen the Battle Report.

It may be interesting in a Bike list or an Outflanking Mech List. I dont think it will be to competitive until 6E with new rules.

dæl wrote:According to the thread on Warseer, the escort rule applies to units entering from reserve, NOT Deep Strike

Escort craft: If a stormtalon is kept in reserve, it can be assigned to escort any friendly unit in reserve with the following exceptions:
A stormtalon cannot escort a unit arriving by Deep Strike.
One stormtalon cannot escort another stormtalon.
A maximum of one stormtalon can escort each unit.
If this is done, do not make reserve rolls for the stormtalon. Instead it arrives at the same time as the unit it is escorting. The stormtalon must move onto the board within 6" of the point that the unit it is escorting entered by.

Its a Fast Attack choice, cannot be squadroned, and is only for C:SM. Missiles are powerfist cost, lascannons a bit cheaper.

Where did you get those rules from? Could we get a link please.

dæl wrote:

revackey wrote:

dæl wrote:Escort might prove handy for outflankers, now who useful can outflank in C:SM?

Khan gives Outflank.

Isn't the WD battle report White Scars?

Yes it is, according to the May issue back page.

Lysenis wrote:Where did you get those rules from? Could we get a link please.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?336910-Autumn-of-Fliers/page54


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Skyhammer isn't twin linked, but still seems the best option imo, close enough to the assault cannons to be firing at the same stuff, and has rate of fire too. Seems its very much an anti-transport with this loadout.

Will be buying one for Combat Patrol games, this will take the place of my attack bike in 500 point games.

155 points for a skyhammer/Cyclone launcher (presumably 1-- if it's 2, this unit is extremely good and in fact likely broken), no Deep Strike, no escorting Deep Strikers? Might be competitive in 6e once the flyer rules hit (and presumably constitute buffs), isn't competitive now except perhaps in certain super aggressive lists or low points games where it can easily hang back and pummel people from out of their range.

One possibility, of course, is escorting outflankers and using the Skyhammer missiles as insurance for coming in on the wrong side of the board, but 155 points is an expensive insurance policy.

My biggest questions that have came from this:

1. how does this hover strike rule work. Adding BS +1 doesn't seem that effective with so many TL weapon profile. BS 5 is anything but a 1 to wound. so you would only have a few 1s to reroll from TL. but guess that will basically get you through to hit roll with out loosing a shot. . . Generally. Still will be incredibly helpful with the hammer launcher and typhoon.

2. how will the Escort rule work. the wording of the rule will be very important.

3. points cost is important. if the upgrades are too expensive it wont be worth it truly.

As to the argument about the cost verses the Pred the true point is that it is rather strong heavy weaponry in the FA slot. While a pred is cheaper it is not a FA (excluding stupid space vampires) some may have already filled their Heavy and still need more firepower. AV 11 makes it much better then a speeder as it can no longer be glanced to death by bolters or other S4 shooting and/or CC.

Fetterkey wrote:155 points for a skyhammer/Cyclone launcher (presumably 1-- if it's 2, this unit is extremely good and in fact likely broken), no Deep Strike, no escorting Deep Strikers? Might be competitive in 6e once the flyer rules hit (and presumably constitute buffs), isn't competitive now except perhaps in certain super aggressive lists or low points games where it can easily hang back and pummel people from out of their range.

One possibility, of course, is escorting outflankers and using the Skyhammer missiles as insurance for coming in on the wrong side of the board, but 155 points is an expensive insurance policy.

If that is the fate of it rule wise then yea its useless. And the fact that only C:SM gets them GW dropped the ball. BUT I will still have some tiny hope until I see an actual WD or pictures of the pages.

I wouldn't say useless. Useless is Honor Guard. But it certainly isn't a particularly efficient or strong choice at the moment, assuming you only get one skyhammer or Cyclone launcher. The leak I saw said "launchers" but I assume it's only one because two would be completely busted. A unit that fires six BS 5, Strength 7 shots from 60" away would be insanely strong, regardless of other rules.

Fetterkey wrote:I wouldn't say useless. Useless is Honor Guard. But it certainly isn't a particularly efficient or strong choice at the moment, assuming you only get one skyhammer or Cyclone launcher. The leak I saw said "launchers" but I assume it's only one because two would be completely busted. A unit that fires six BS 5, Strength 7 shots from 60" away would be insanely strong, regardless of other rules.

Without being twin linked that's actually worse against mech than a psyfledread while being much less resilient and more expensive. It'd be competitive with such august company, so it would be quite good.

I think it is very suspicious that all new flyers now have areal assault and supersonic, regardless of army (see necron and now this). I think something is brewing in the 6th edition that will let us make more sense of the Av11. Note also that necrons have living metal while this thing has ceramite plating - both defensive rules but by no means enough to make Av11 more palatable. So, there is a big piece of the puzzle that is still missing.

I think it is wise to reserve strong judgments until we see the real 6th edition.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:I wouldn't say useless. Useless is Honor Guard. But it certainly isn't a particularly efficient or strong choice at the moment, assuming you only get one skyhammer or Cyclone launcher. The leak I saw said "launchers" but I assume it's only one because two would be completely busted. A unit that fires six BS 5, Strength 7 shots from 60" away would be insanely strong, regardless of other rules.

Without being twin linked that's actually worse against mech than a psyfledread while being much less resilient and more expensive. It'd be competitive with such august company, so it would be quite good.

Lets compare it to an auto-include from the most OP army, see how it does. Let me guess, its worse than a vindicare against armour 14, and worse than Purifiers against hordes too, and it can't take as much fire as a Draigo-Paladin deathstar. This thing puts out 3 S6 Rending Twin Linked and 3 S7 all at potentially BS5, thats not bad, it will certainly work as airsuperiority, imagine firing that into a squadron of 3 vendettas.

dæl wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:I wouldn't say useless. Useless is Honor Guard. But it certainly isn't a particularly efficient or strong choice at the moment, assuming you only get one skyhammer or Cyclone launcher. The leak I saw said "launchers" but I assume it's only one because two would be completely busted. A unit that fires six BS 5, Strength 7 shots from 60" away would be insanely strong, regardless of other rules.

Without being twin linked that's actually worse against mech than a psyfledread while being much less resilient and more expensive. It'd be competitive with such august company, so it would be quite good.

Lets compare it to an auto-include from the most OP army, see how it does. Let me guess, its worse than a vindicare against armour 14, and worse than Purifiers against hordes too, and it can't take as much fire as a Draigo-Paladin deathstar. This thing puts out 3 S6 Rending Twin Linked and 3 S7 all at potentially BS5, thats not bad, it will certainly work as airsuperiority, imagine firing that into a squadron of 3 vendettas.

Read the last sentence of my post. Also, imagine a single vendetta firing at one of these. Hell, imagine a couple of multilaser chimeras firing at it. If it can have two missile pods that makes it 180 points for a six shot str7 ap4 on an 11 armor flying vehicle. Are six shots worth 180 points? That's all you're going to get, so those shots better be hitting some gold.

So the Stormtalon can't escort units deep striking? This isn't all that great except for units that can outflank. I'm guessing this essentially makes Khan somewhat useful now since you can bring in a squad from either table edge and have the Stormtalon firing at side armor. Sounds interesting, but not too game breaking I think.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:I wouldn't say useless. Useless is Honor Guard. But it certainly isn't a particularly efficient or strong choice at the moment, assuming you only get one skyhammer or Cyclone launcher. The leak I saw said "launchers" but I assume it's only one because two would be completely busted. A unit that fires six BS 5, Strength 7 shots from 60" away would be insanely strong, regardless of other rules.

Without being twin linked that's actually worse against mech than a psyfledread

How do you figure? 6 BS 5 shots = 5 hits average, while a psyfledread scores about 3.5, and while the psyfledread hits are a point higher in terms of Strength they're from shorter range. I'd rather have the Stormtalon, especially since it's in a less competitive slot.

The lack of deep strike options really disappoints me. All of the flyers should have this option and then the more agile fighters and possibly some ground units could attempt to shoot them down on deep strike attempts. It would add another level to tactics and list building that would not add any considerable length to the games.

I see all Marines getting the Talon eventually, maybe as soon as a 6th edition FAQ. I don't see GW telling customers not to buy a unit. I don't remember any non-chapter specific unit in the marine codex not being optioned somehow to the stand alone chapter books.

Piccolo wrote:The lack of deep strike options really disappoints me. All of the flyers should have this option and then the more agile fighters and possibly some ground units could attempt to shoot them down on deep strike attempts. It would add another level to tactics and list building that would not add any considerable length to the games.

I see all Marines getting the Talon eventually, maybe as soon as a 6th edition FAQ. I don't see GW telling customers not to buy a unit. I don't remember any non-chapter specific unit in the marine codex not being optioned somehow to the stand alone chapter books.

They didn't make the Stormraven available to all, and as for C:SM only - Master of the Forge, Thunderfire Cannon, Land Speeder Storm, Ironclad Dread, Legion of the Damned. They've got to have something that makes them unique, otherwise everyone would play BA/SW.

Piccolo wrote:I don't remember any non-chapter specific unit in the marine codex not being optioned somehow to the stand alone chapter books.

Thunderfire Cannons and Ironclad Dreadnoughts are the only such units I'm aware of at present.

I just don't see it replacing my Landspeeder Typhoons just yet...

My biggest concern is that fact that it comes in the FA slot. To me, MM Attack Bikes, Typhoons, and MM/HF Landspeeders are just too nice to pass up. One thing that might be interesting is having it escort a LSS that is Outflanking... but that's using up two FA slots for a gimmick. Meh...

ShumaGorath wrote:

dæl wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:I wouldn't say useless. Useless is Honor Guard. But it certainly isn't a particularly efficient or strong choice at the moment, assuming you only get one skyhammer or Cyclone launcher. The leak I saw said "launchers" but I assume it's only one because two would be completely busted. A unit that fires six BS 5, Strength 7 shots from 60" away would be insanely strong, regardless of other rules.

Without being twin linked that's actually worse against mech than a psyfledread while being much less resilient and more expensive. It'd be competitive with such august company, so it would be quite good.

Lets compare it to an auto-include from the most OP army, see how it does. Let me guess, its worse than a vindicare against armour 14, and worse than Purifiers against hordes too, and it can't take as much fire as a Draigo-Paladin deathstar. This thing puts out 3 S6 Rending Twin Linked and 3 S7 all at potentially BS5, thats not bad, it will certainly work as airsuperiority, imagine firing that into a squadron of 3 vendettas.

Read the last sentence of my post. Also, imagine a single vendetta firing at one of these. Hell, imagine a couple of multilaser chimeras firing at it. If it can have two missile pods that makes it 180 points for a six shot str7 ap4 on an 11 armor flying vehicle. Are six shots worth 180 points? That's all you're going to get, so those shots better be hitting some gold.

So this is the only thing in the SM army? Maybe at 500pts, but with saturation and range they should survive a few turns, if they don't something else is.

dæl wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

dæl wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:I wouldn't say useless. Useless is Honor Guard. But it certainly isn't a particularly efficient or strong choice at the moment, assuming you only get one skyhammer or Cyclone launcher. The leak I saw said "launchers" but I assume it's only one because two would be completely busted. A unit that fires six BS 5, Strength 7 shots from 60" away would be insanely strong, regardless of other rules.

Without being twin linked that's actually worse against mech than a psyfledread while being much less resilient and more expensive. It'd be competitive with such august company, so it would be quite good.

Lets compare it to an auto-include from the most OP army, see how it does. Let me guess, its worse than a vindicare against armour 14, and worse than Purifiers against hordes too, and it can't take as much fire as a Draigo-Paladin deathstar. This thing puts out 3 S6 Rending Twin Linked and 3 S7 all at potentially BS5, thats not bad, it will certainly work as airsuperiority, imagine firing that into a squadron of 3 vendettas.

Read the last sentence of my post. Also, imagine a single vendetta firing at one of these. Hell, imagine a couple of multilaser chimeras firing at it. If it can have two missile pods that makes it 180 points for a six shot str7 ap4 on an 11 armor flying vehicle. Are six shots worth 180 points? That's all you're going to get, so those shots better be hitting some gold.

So this is the only thing in the SM army? Maybe at 500pts, but with saturation and range they should survive a few turns, if they don't something else is.

It has a problematic firepower to armor ratio. Ask DE players how long their tanks last and thats in an army with nothing but glass canons which would imply target saturation. In a basic marine force it'd be very easy to prioritize the flyer over rhinos (cheaper) or everything else in the codex (much more resilient).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Fetterkey wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:I wouldn't say useless. Useless is Honor Guard. But it certainly isn't a particularly efficient or strong choice at the moment, assuming you only get one skyhammer or Cyclone launcher. The leak I saw said "launchers" but I assume it's only one because two would be completely busted. A unit that fires six BS 5, Strength 7 shots from 60" away would be insanely strong, regardless of other rules.

Without being twin linked that's actually worse against mech than a psyfledread

How do you figure? 6 BS 5 shots = 5 hits average, while a psyfledread scores about 3.5, and while the psyfledread hits are a point higher in terms of Strength they're from shorter range. I'd rather have the Stormtalon, especially since it's in a less competitive slot.

I give the nod thanks to the point of strength granting capability against av 13 and 14 and better odds of penetrating against av12. The jets probably a better rhino killer and it can dash in and maybe deal with a land raider thanks to the assault canon. It's more expensive and vastly less surviveable though and the extra 2 feet of range isn't that meaningful. When it walks a psyfledread has a 50" threat range which is 12 inches short of the entire table the long way.

If you take 2 and combine them with a full squadron of 3 Typhoons you would have a fairly decent amount of long range firepower.

I'll wait for the 6th edition rules to drop before making judgments but I like the concept.


The model on the other hand...

I actually like the Stormraven. This is just wierd

We also sit at a strong point here. Since the new rule set is surely just around the corner and with that we assume a new marines dex, we have the ability to really raise hell and complain about this model or rules surrounding it to hopefully get a change. If enough problems arise from this model then we can hope that something in the next edition will come up to make it more valuble

I want to like the concept, and I want to like the model, but it falls short for me in both areas.

At 155pts for a reasonable loadout, its just too expensive. If 6th ed magically changes a bunch of rules and what-not, then sure, it might become more useful. However, in the current 5th ed world, its simply too expensive when I could get 2x MM/HF speeders with 15pts to spare.

Yeah, but those are for completely different targets. Not to mention the fact they will be 2 easy kill points given their threat and the range they operate in.

The Stormtalon can operate at extreme range where the threats to itself are quite few in number. Its also cheap enough to not cramp the rest of the list, I can easily get 3 Predators and some rifleman dreads in addition to these guys to spread the threat out.

I may scratch build my own, but I will definitly be using them.

I think I'd rather spend my money on some hydras for my guard than buy one of these for my marines...

The "list" of codex only units was longe than I thought simply becuase I had crossed most of those off. Land speeder storm, ironclad dred and legion of the damned are all units that while codex specific have close variants in other lists. Master of the forge is just another character for modifying your list structure, like Belial for DW. That pretty much leaves the thunder fire, which while unique isn't something entire armies are built around.

With the idea that over the course of 6th edition and as new books come out everyone gets flyers I don't see how they can prevent marines not in C:SM from having this unit opened up to them.

Attach a basic one of these to Shrike and an outflanking Assault Squad and you will auto-win a lot of games. I think keeping this guy cheap and using an outflanking unit to get him in the backfield is the way to go. The Typhoon ML is a poor choice as the utility of having a S4 blast is lost on a vehicle that can move 12" and shoot everything. The Skyhammer seems to be the best weapon option but 155 is a little too much considering it loses twin-linked and is effectively a 24" and +2 strength buff; it isn't bad but I'm not sure if the weapon is worth the price considering the automatic TL Assault Cannon.

I think you outflank it however possible and shred infantry/side armor with the stock loadout. With both weapons being twin-linked you are always going to hit 5/7 of your shots and often will get all 7; that should wreak some havoc. The psychological impact of that thing in your opponent's backfield in mid/late game is huge too.

http://lkhero.blogspot.com/2012/05/new-40k-flyers-incoming.html


Found some rules for it from the WD, hope this isnt too late

Kinda late, check the thread about Autmn of Fliers.

Oh whoops sorry about that.

It's ok. I'm sorry about my lame spelling... stupid tablet keyboard...

I say lame duck.
It looks like it could look ok, and then they strapped too many guns on it. Why does the oversize turret have landing gear? It seems like it could be an interesting addition to a fast army, but I just don't like how it looks.

DakkaHammer wrote:I say lame duck.
It looks like it could look ok, and then they strapped too many guns on it. Why does the oversize turret have landing gear? It seems like it could be an interesting addition to a fast army, but I just don't like how it looks.

I can appreciate your opinion on the model's aesthetics but, as this is in the tactics section, this thread concerns how the Stormtalon functions in game; please keep conversation in this thread on such a topic.

I have been mulling over the value of the skyhammer for 25 points and, if in an outflanking role, I think it really isn't worth it. It gives you some flexibility with range but the assault cannon is still the best weapon on the vehicle so a poor outflank should probably be spent boosting 36" towards your intended target. It seems like the weapon options only make sense if you have the stormtalon in a defensive role. With that said, a landspeeder typhoon does the same defensive role better for 65 less points. Of course the stormtalon's assault cannon is more of a deterrent than a typhoon's heavy bolter but with the extreme points cost I just don't see it being worth it.

It just looks overpriced to me. Ceramite plating isn't much of an issue, melta weapons still pen it on a 4+ on 1D6. Krak missiles also pen it for that matter. Autocannons do even more damage. AV11 is a crappy AV value to hang out at. Every army out there is packing heat to smoke AV11 targets because the current meta is rhino/razorback heavy. A 130-155 point AV11 target that won't be able to find cover is the very definition of glass cannon. The ork AV 10 jets are more durable because of a KFF, and the Necron AV11 scythes can be backed up with night fighting. The AV11 Chibitalon may as well come with a standardized white paint job with red concentric circles on it.

Considering its a Flyer it will probably be alot more durable then its AV11 says it will be.

Currently, Flyers are only ever hit on a 6 for shooting attacks regardless of BS. AA mounts are the only thing that hits on normal BS. If this translates directly into the 6th edition rules it will be a very durable ship. And it makes going into hover mode more risky but rewarding.

Flyers are also required to move a great distance. If this also directly translates the Stormtalon will have a Flat Out cover save(assuming this survives the edition change)



Even if this doesn't work, if the Stormtalon takes Skyhammer missiles and stays at max range it can be pretty durable. More so then Typhoon Speeders who arn't all that easy to kill at long range. And Skyhammer missiles out range everything except Railguns and Battle Cannons.

OK, so you have for 155pts a better armored landspeeder. You have a 4 shot 24" weapon combined with a 3 shot 60" weapon. But unlike the Landspeeder you cannot start on the board. Also It must be placed in reserve with Another unit. So you are keeping 2 units off the board just for the right to play with this model.

I am not impressed with this at all. The only role I see it performing ok with is with a White Scars list. And that is questionable. If it could start on the board I would be a lot more impressed with it.

Hydras are gonna love these.

jbunny wrote:OK, so you have for 155pts a better armored landspeeder. You have a 4 shot 24" weapon combined with a 3 shot 60" weapon. But unlike the Landspeeder you cannot start on the board. Also It must be placed in reserve with Another unit. So you are keeping 2 units off the board just for the right to play with this model.

I am not impressed with this at all. The only role I see it performing ok with is with a White Scars list. And that is questionable. If it could start on the board I would be a lot more impressed with it.

Nothing's forcing you to keep it in reserves.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

jbunny wrote:OK, so you have for 155pts a better armored landspeeder. You have a 4 shot 24" weapon combined with a 3 shot 60" weapon. But unlike the Landspeeder you cannot start on the board. Also It must be placed in reserve with Another unit. So you are keeping 2 units off the board just for the right to play with this model.

I am not impressed with this at all. The only role I see it performing ok with is with a White Scars list. And that is questionable. If it could start on the board I would be a lot more impressed with it.

Nothing's forcing you to keep it in reserves.

I was led to believe that it must be held in reserve. Even starting on the board I think it is questionable at best.

I wrote a bit about this comparing it to the other FA choices in the SM book. I think it could be useful in certain lists, but not in your generic ultramarines type list. Check it! http://www.3forint.com/2012/05/stormtalon-why-do-you-want-it.html

ShumaGorath wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

Praxiss wrote:What is the current fetish with making all ne space marines vehicle immune to Melta?

You'd be immune to Meltas too if you were capable of survivable atmospheric entry.

You mean like every eldar, dark eldar, and necron flyer? Several IG planes too, the maurader for instance. In fact, why isn't the drop pod immune, it's clearly the most in need. Meltas don't even work that way, if they were immune to directed thermal energy then lasers and flamers wouldn't work. Meltas are some kind of weird microwave beam that functions dissimilarly from accruing heat via friction.

"Atmospheric entry" is badly applied handwavium for these vehicles.

The drop pod takes all it heat on the underside, so that would be the immune to melta portion. However since it lands on it's bottom, there's no need for an immune to melta rule. The Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo capsules took most of the heat from reentry on the bottom.

ShumaGorath wrote:The sky talon is pretty terrible, not being able to switch it's assault canon for a reasonably ranged weapon means that its 11 armor can't dart around at a standoff distance and it's wasting the ranged potential of all its other guns. What is the point of this thing? It fills absolutely no role that isn't better filled by a land speeder squadron. If it could switch its assault canon for a missile upgrade or it's HB for multi meltas then maybe I could see a use for it, but it's just painfully bad psyfleman fodder like this.

Well, it appears that the Skytalon is a strange new fiyer with an assault cannon that can't be switched.

I guess its a FA unit, isin't it?

If so, it will compete with Tornados that are pretty good for their pt value.

wuestenfux wrote:I guess its a FA unit, isin't it?

If so, it will compete with Tornados that are pretty good for their pt value.

I think the standard Stormtalon Gunship is far superior to the Landspeeder Tornado. For 40 extra points you twin-link both of your weapons, get +1 AV to all facings, an improved flat-out, and (most importantly) the ability to move 12" and shoot both weapons; if you favor lone Landspeeder Tornado models I think switching them out for this is a no-brainer.

The choice gets difficult when you favor the Typhoon as the Stormtalon only fills a similar role by upping its points to 155; this is far too expensive in my opinion.

I'm planning on keeping my two Typhoons and dropping my Thunderfire Cannon, and some unit upgrades to get a stock Stormtalon in my list. I'm going to piggyback it on Shrike and his outflanking Assault Squad to get it into the backfield.

SonicPara wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:I guess its a FA unit, isin't it?

If so, it will compete with Tornados that are pretty good for their pt value.

I think the standard Stormtalon Gunship is far superior to the Landspeeder Tornado. For 40 extra points you twin-link both of your weapons, get +1 AV to all facings, an improved flat-out, and (most importantly) the ability to move 12" and shoot both weapons; if you favor lone Landspeeder Tornado models I think switching them out for this is a no-brainer.

The choice gets difficult when you favor the Typhoon as the Stormtalon only fills a similar role by upping its points to 155; this is far too expensive in my opinion.

I'm planning on keeping my two Typhoons and dropping my Thunderfire Cannon, and some unit upgrades to get a stock Stormtalon in my list. I'm going to piggyback it on Shrike and his outflanking Assault Squad to get it into the backfield.

Could also be a Landspeeder Storm to piggyback a Storm Talon. As said above, the 6th edition may eventually make this new filyer more worthwhile.

wuestenfux wrote:
Could also be a Landspeeder Storm to piggyback a Storm Talon. As said above, the 6th edition may eventually make this new filyer more worthwhile.

Yes, I've thought of that but since both vehicles cannot be squadroned that means you are tying up two fast attack slots in a fairly underwhelming one-two punch. It would be super fun and cool looking but I think there are better things to use to piggyback the Stormtalon into outflank.

I think the Stormtalon is worthwhile in a select few cases as it stands now but, as you mentioned, 6th edition may really make it great.

I just got my WD.


I basically see no reason to ever run it with Typhoon Missiles as they are the same cost as the Skyhammer missiles.

There are 3 ways I can see running it. Naked, as an anti-infantry vehicle. With the TL-lascannon to take out vehicles. and with Skyhammer missiles to kinda do both.


The Skyhammer missile version will probably be best in an army that gets close fast to take pressure off the Stormtalons(and because you probably arn't taking much Fast Attack)



I will say that I'm jealous of the Ork flyers. They are rediclous. The Dakkajet has an effective BS of 3 at all times.

The skyhammer is basically an AC with 3 shot and a 60" range. Against MEQ, AV12+, and MC with a 3+ save the 2 S8 AP3 shots will out perform the 3 S7 AP4 shots. It would also be a more reliable way to force pinning tests on MEQ.

I really like the idea of the storm talon, especially with the lascannons. BS5 lascannons that are twin linked seems really fun, and hopefully can take things down reliably.

The skyhammer is a little lackluster Imho, but I dont really like autocannons anyways. I think this thing could do good if you have other things moving forward, say, a land raider filled with TH/SS terminators that so many lists take.

Although this is my opinion about it, so I may (probably) be wrong.

What I can't figure out is why it seems most people are drooling the most over the skyhammer missiles?

For the same points cost you can take the typhoon option which is better against either armor or massed troops with its 2 choices of ammo. By being better at both it compliments the TL ass cannon to form a more reliable loadout for any situation.

Now I just have to wait and see if my Dark Angels will get access to some variant of this craft. My guess is that 6th edition FAQ's that come out at the release of 6th will open this up to more armies, possibly with adjusted points costs and rules based on a months worth of feedback GW is receiving.

the 60" range is a nice advantage.

That outranges 90% of all weaponry you will encounter. Only Railguns, Battle Cannons, and a few other ordinance weapons can match that.

Str7 is very good at killing transports. the ability to do that from accross the board at potentially BS5 is pretty powerful.

Grey Templar wrote:the 60" range is a nice advantage.

That outranges 90% of all weaponry you will encounter. Only Railguns, Battle Cannons, and a few other ordinance weapons can match that.

Str7 is very good at killing transports. the ability to do that from accross the board at potentially BS5 is pretty powerful.

60" range is kinda wasted though, the 48" on the Typhoon is more than enough, especially as you can move and shoot.

schadenfreude wrote:The skyhammer is basically an AC with 3 shot and a 60" range. Against MEQ, AV12+, and MC with a 3+ save the 2 S8 AP3 shots will out perform the 3 S7 AP4 shots. It would also be a more reliable way to force pinning tests on MEQ.

Would it not be better to compare the two weapons to AV 10/11? Since you can drop the stormtalon within 6" of a drop pod, it should be pretty easy to line up side or rear shots.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but... For the escort ability, didn't the June WD specifically say that it *couldn't* escort a unit coming from deep strike? It has a list of restrictions, and iirc that was one of them. (I don't have the mag to hand, so can't confirm).

Thus, it could only escort a unit coming in from reserves, and its entry location had to be within 6" of the escort unit's entry point.

Either way, it looks like a Boss, and I'll pick one up. Fun times on the table will tell me if it's any good

Well, escorting is useful for a shooty tank if it carries short-ranged weapons like an assault cannon. Another use is contesting in the enemy's backfield.

I'm guessing thsi might be one of those thgins that makes a lot more sense when 6th ed come out (mayeb the reserves rules will be chaning so you can choose tables edges or something).

Praxiss wrote:I'm guessing thsi might be one of those thgins that makes a lot more sense when 6th ed come out (mayeb the reserves rules will be chaning so you can choose tables edges or something).

Yep. Today the stormtalon looks like trash with wings. In 2 months, it might be pretty f'ing awesome.

I keep seeing the same argument used on the akyhammer that makes no sense. People cite the same reasons.

1. 60" range, too bad that means you are ignoring TL assault cannon. Also as a tau player I have seen how often my railguns get to use max range, not often.

2. Three shots at possible bs 5, if your going to use the hover shot it means that the target has to die and nothing else can shoot back since you give up the defensive bonus of moving.

3. Aiming at av10/11, if this is the only use where you weapon is the best choice you are wasting the rest of the vehicle.

I am not saying it is a bad weapon, it just isn't as flexible or effective as the other choice at the same points cost.

The reasons above are exactly why I think piggybacking it into outflank via the Escort rule and leaving it with the basic setup is the best way to go. It is the most accurate version as all weapons are twin-linked, it is the cheapest variant, and it makes use of everything you are paying points for.

<redacted -- do NOT link scans of rules on Dakka. --Janthkin>

gimmicky, not useless but not great compared to other FA slots.
6th ed will make it better. Better enough to justify the costs, both in game and IRL? I'm going to wait for new 'dex before i pick this up if at all.

Oh and for my two cents on the Stormtalo:

I like the model, it looks chunky enough to look like the offspring of a Stormbird, as well as fitting in with the Stormraven and Stormeagle craft. but also, imo it is suitably Pre-heresy enough to be used in my Pre-heresy Iron Warriors army

the rules aren't too bad, and sure they will probably seem better once 6th ed is released along with an updated SM codex too. Sure its not for competitive lists, but who cares, its a game to be enjoyed, play it how ever you want, I certainly do.

For me it gets a big

I have been running White Scars as of late and I find this new vehicle interesting. I have a bigger concern for the FA slot (already filled by 3 squads of 2 TML Speeders) than the 130-155 point range.

Now, given cost, if I were to take a TML on the stormtalon vs a land speeder, I find they are near identical. A speeder with a TML and Assault cannon is 130 points. Stormtalon is 155, higher AV, and a few other gimmicks. The only problem is I never assault cannons on my speeders as I prefer to keep them in the 36"to 48" range (i.e. out of harm' way). So, the TL assault cannon seems to fit more of a "just in case someone gets too close" role than a definite need.

My plan is to take the skyhammer missile system, possibly the TL Lascannon. As for the Typhoons, what would be the point? As previously stated, speeders already fill that need better, cheaper, etc. I can see taking the stormtalon for one of two reasons: increased range (skyhammer) or increased damage (lascannon). Depending on the point level, I would either just change my speeder loadout from 3 squadrons of 2, to 2 squadrons of 3 or just replace one squadron.

I also don't run Khan. I run a normal captain on a bike, so outflanking it is a moot point. I see the escort rule being more of a "hey, that's handy" but not game breaking for me as I don't plan on running this as an in your face unit. It should be sitting in the backfield dropping shots in from far, far away.

Green is Best! wrote:I have been running White Scars as of late and I find this new vehicle interesting. I have a bigger concern for the FA slot (already filled by 3 squads of 2 TML Speeders) than the 130-155 point range.

Now, given cost, if I were to take a TML on the stormtalon vs a land speeder, I find they are near identical. A speeder with a TML and Assault cannon is 130 points. Stormtalon is 155, higher AV, and a few other gimmicks. The only problem is I never assault cannons on my speeders as I prefer to keep them in the 36"to 48" range (i.e. out of harm' way). So, the TL assault cannon seems to fit more of a "just in case someone gets too close" role than a definite need.

My plan is to take the skyhammer missile system, possibly the TL Lascannon. As for the Typhoons, what would be the point? As previously stated, speeders already fill that need better, cheaper, etc. I can see taking the stormtalon for one of two reasons: increased range (skyhammer) or increased damage (lascannon). Depending on the point level, I would either just change my speeder loadout from 3 squadrons of 2, to 2 squadrons of 3 or just replace one squadron.

I also don't run Khan. I run a normal captain on a bike, so outflanking it is a moot point. I see the escort rule being more of a "hey, that's handy" but not game breaking for me as I don't plan on running this as an in your face unit. It should be sitting in the backfield dropping shots in from far, far away.

Sounds like a good plan, and that the Stormtalon fits that kind of army perfectly. It seems aimed at White Scars, Raven Guard and and fast moving SM variant lists. I'll be taking one as part of my Pre-Heresy IW's (I use the SM codex) for giggles, as it just seems the perfect little craft over stormravens or stormeagles. I'd have a stormbird, but considering they don't make it (yet) I'll have to settle on its little baby

Green is Best! wrote:I also don't run Khan. I run a normal captain on a bike, so outflanking it is a moot point. I see the escort rule being more of a "hey, that's handy" but not game breaking for me as I don't plan on running this as an in your face unit. It should be sitting in the backfield dropping shots in from far, far away.

HIstorically I've not run Khan with my bike army in the past. The talon makes me reconsider this.
I stopped reserving my bikes when I shifted to using more fire support with my army. This was to cover a gap I found with the lack of long range anti-transport.
The talon allows for me to outflank my anti-transport, which means that outflanking could be a decent option again.

Reserving gives a few key advantages that I like in a bike army.
* Less turns to be shot means that your less likely to die.
* You get an extra round of shooting if you go second. Since you come in on the bottom of 2, in a 6 turn game, you give your opponent 4 turns of shooting while you get 5.
* You have an advantage on objective grabbing if you go second.
* Reserving can bone a lot of armies, like drop pod armies, DoA armies, or demons.
This is why I like the talon on paper. It allows me to shift back to a reserve-based army and focus on my outflanking.

You bring up some good points. I may have to consider giving Khan a go. And, its not so much that I am against outflanking, it is just that I am very much in favor of combat tactics. Falling back out of assault range is very handy.

But, if I were to outflank with a stormtalon, I am thinking the TL Lascannon would be the way to go.

Only way to find out is to try it out on the battlefield. I am picking mine up on Saturday....

dont know if it has been suggested, but at first glance it appears as if a squad of 3 typhoon/melta speeders and a talon outflanking would be very useful...i may be wrong, but im going to run them that way...
on a side note, does anyone else thing the "hover srike" rule is kind of pointless with half of the options for this unit being twin linked? only sense it would make is if twin linked weapons reroll hit&wound/pen rolls in 6th

Any rule saying you have to place it on base it comes with. I question this because most skimmers hover close to the ground granting an easier cover save. Ie tau eldar,de, etc. Would putting it on a base an inch or two off the table cause an uproar. Considering one for my salamanders.

there's no rules i know which states a vehicle must be based. and it is a vehicle, infantry and so on do however need to be based.

AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:there's no rules i know which states a vehicle must be based. and it is a vehicle, infantry and so on do however need to be based.

The rules simply require that models be based on the bases with which they come. As the Stormtalon will likely come with the same base as the Stormraven/Valkyrie/etc., the rules require that you mount it on the base.

Janthkin wrote:

AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:there's no rules i know which states a vehicle must be based. and it is a vehicle, infantry and so on do however need to be based.

The rules simply require that models be based on the bases with which they come. As the Stormtalon will likely come with the same base as the Stormraven/Valkyrie/etc., the rules require that you mount it on the base.

I was only aware that models should be based appropriately, and considering both the stormraven and stormtalon have landing gear they don't need to be mounted on any form of base and/or their flying stand.

The basic rule book specifically says that models must be based on the bases the model comes with.

Of course, I have some older terminators that came with 25mm bases back in the day...

kronk wrote:The basic rule book specifically says that models must be based on the bases the model comes with.

Of course, I have some older terminators that came with 25mm bases back in the day...

Well I guess that means you don't need to mount it on the flying stand then

yeah same about the termies, that made life so much easier lols

AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:

Janthkin wrote:

AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:there's no rules i know which states a vehicle must be based. and it is a vehicle, infantry and so on do however need to be based.

The rules simply require that models be based on the bases with which they come. As the Stormtalon will likely come with the same base as the Stormraven/Valkyrie/etc., the rules require that you mount it on the base.

I was only aware that models should be based appropriately, and considering both the stormraven and stormtalon have landing gear they don't need to be mounted on any form of base and/or their flying stand.

It is a rule that models need to be on their bases if they are supplied with one. Page 3.

Well I hope they omit that in 6th ed

AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:Well I hope they omit that in 6th ed

I doubt they will. It'd basicly be allowing people to MFA.

hmmmm true, I meant omit it for vehicles, as I just find it odd that certain ones now have to have their bases, whilst ones that don't have bases remain the same.

Well it is a skimmer, it kinda has to have a base. Regular vehicles don't need bases.

Given the role of these vehicles as gunboats it makes sense for them to be higher up.


Of course it would be nice if GW made some sort of tiered base where they could be at different heights. Like you skimmer could choose a height to hover at at the end of its movement phase but its stuck at that height for the turn.

Thats why I cut the flying stems, as I find the hight of them too big as to never give them suitable cover.

Maybe thats the point.

6th edition will most likely change them to the Flyer rules for Appocalypse, which will be better then getting cover saves.

if thats the point it makes some skimmers amazingly vulnerable, and takes modelling potential of of your hands... which to me anyways defeats half the point of this hobby. thats probably true for 6th ed, but I guess we'll wait and see.

I think all of the vehicles on the LOB would look very bad if they were closer to the ground. They don't look right if they arn't high above the battlefield. The Stormtalon doesn't look right at any height but thats not the point

lmfao, I see what you mean, but tbh imo I think it depends on the flier really. as with the Razorwing-jetfighter, I like the idea of it jinking close to the ground, as thats what their pilots do in the death arenas of comorragh. with the Stormtalon, its a close support unit, and in my eyes it should be able to be high or low in profile. the stormraven should be high due to its nature as a transport/gunship. the same goes for the Valkyrie/Vendetta too. The Necron Scythes I'm unsure of tbh. I guess any position is good for them

AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:Thats why I cut the flying stems, as I find the hight of them too big as to never give them suitable cover.

This is the textbook definition of Modelling For Advantage. It is disallowed for a good reason.

Erm considering no one I have faced in a tourney has ever complained as well as emailing GW to ask about it as a rules queary, I don't see how...

AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:Erm considering no one I have faced in a tourney has ever complained as well as emailing GW to ask about it as a rules queary, I don't see how...

They probably didn't notice if your modification was discreet. This doesn't change the fact that, as stated before, you have modeled for advantage per the definition present in the 40k rulebook. Getting away with something does not absolve the guilty of the infraction.

And before you ask why it is wrong to do this, I'm going to pre-emptively quote one of your other posts.

AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:Thats why I cut the flying stems, as I find the hight of them too big as to never give them suitable cover.

Anyways, back on topic, I will be picking up my Stormtalon tomorrow and trying it out with my previously stated tactic of outflanking it via Shrike and some Assault Marines. I'm sacrificing some weapon upgrades and a Thunderfire Cannon to fit the bird in my list but the added firepower in my enemy's backfield may well be worth it. I'll be sure to post my experiences.

Well, I'm planning to buy one Stormtalon on Saturday. I guess one is nothing, two are mean and three are overkill.

Green is Best! wrote:You bring up some good points. I may have to consider giving Khan a go. And, its not so much that I am against outflanking, it is just that I am very much in favor of combat tactics. Falling back out of assault range is very handy.

But, if I were to outflank with a stormtalon, I am thinking the TL Lascannon would be the way to go.

Only way to find out is to try it out on the battlefield. I am picking mine up on Saturday....

I'm a huge fan of combat tactics, and I hear you about how much it would suck to lose it.

That being said, I can understand the desire to go with outflanking now. Since the stormtalons help to 'clump' your reserves together, it means your coming on with a bigger hit.
I plan on testing this with some TH/SS termis in a LRR, some bikes, and a few talons. I don't expect it to be highly competitive, but I do expect it to throw some people off their game.

I am thinking a LRR w/ MM and TL Assault Cannon being escorted on by a Stormtalon w TL Assault Cannon and TL Lascannon with TH/SS termies assaulting would cause a considerable amount of headache for any army.

Khan may make it back into my army list after all.

I really can't see me taking more than one stormtalon in this role. Again, I would hate to give up my speeder squadrons. Depending on how it performs in the next few games, I may change my mind however.

Green is Best! wrote:I am thinking a LRR w/ MM and TL Assault Cannon being escorted on by a Stormtalon w TL Assault Cannon and TL Lascannon with TH/SS termies assaulting would cause a considerable amount of headache for any army.

Khan may make it back into my army list after all.

I really can't see me taking more than one stormtalon in this role. Again, I would hate to give up my speeder squadrons. Depending on how it performs in the next few games, I may change my mind however.

How are your Speeder squadrons equipped?

TML. I run bikes. So, the speeders hang back and shoot from a distance while the bikes hang around 13"-24" inches away dropping multi-melta and/or bolter shots.

Praxiss wrote:What is the current fetish with making all ne space marines vehicle immune to Melta?


Seriously, the Assault Ram i can understand, the Storm Raven....maybe as it coudl coem from orbit.

The Talon?!

i can only assume they want no-one takign meltas in 6th Ed (althogh if that was the case, why can only marines ignore them?!)

where does it say anything about being immune to melta? did i miss it?

phoenixrisin wrote:where does it say anything about being immune to melta? did i miss it?

The White Dwarf rules for the Stormtalon have it with Ceremite Plating which makes it immune to the "melta" rule. The Thunderhawk was the first to have it and it has since come over to the Caestus Assault Ram, Stormraven and the Stormtalon; it is not a new rule but it is new to the core 40K game.

thanks for the clarification.

also, these new flyers are super overpriced($$$).

phoenixrisin wrote:these new flyers are super overpriced($$$).

For GW kits, I actually think that they aren't too bad. The Ork one is easily the best value with the most goodies but considering all of the talk of a Stormraven going to $80+ and $70+ Land Raiders, $44.50 for these fliers doesn't hurt quite as bad.

SonicPara wrote:

phoenixrisin wrote:these new flyers are super overpriced($$$).

For GW kits, I actually think that they aren't too bad. The Ork one is easily the best value with the most goodies but considering all of the talk of a Stormraven going to $80+ and $70+ Land Raiders, $44.50 for these fliers doesn't hurt quite as bad.

Agreed, I think the Necron scythes are a close second for value for money too imo. But if your anything like my, shopping with independent stockists will save you a good 20% off the retail price anyway's, so the price increase shouldn't hit your wallet as hard.

SonicPara wrote:

phoenixrisin wrote:these new flyers are super overpriced($$$).

For GW kits, I actually think that they aren't too bad. The Ork one is easily the best value with the most goodies but considering all of the talk of a Stormraven going to $80+ and $70+ Land Raiders, $44.50 for these fliers doesn't hurt quite as bad.

And if you plan on making your bommas from a McDonalds McFlurry cup and a gak load of plastic card, well, then it starts to look even better!

SonicPara wrote:

phoenixrisin wrote:these new flyers are super overpriced($$$).

For GW kits, I actually think that they aren't too bad. The Ork one is easily the best value with the most goodies but considering all of the talk of a Stormraven going to $80+ and $70+ Land Raiders, $44.50 for these fliers doesn't hurt quite as bad.

$70 Land Raider??? i just bought a new sealed one for $49 and i thought it was a rip, lol.

At lest the stormtalon isn't open-topped which gives it a greater survivability.

Land Speeders arn't open topped. Just the LSS is.

Grey Templar wrote:Land Speeders arn't open topped. Just the LSS is.

Yep, the Stormtalon only has the +1 AV in durability over the Landspeeder. With that said AV11 isn't always as paper-thin as it appears, especially if there are other more dangerous armored threats on the battlefield. AV11 hits a sweet spot where simple infantry weapons can't scratch it but it is still soft enough that players hate to devote a missile to it.

SonicPara wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Land Speeders arn't open topped. Just the LSS is.

Yep, the Stormtalon only has the +1 AV in durability over the Landspeeder. With that said AV11 isn't always as paper-thin as it appears, especially if there are other more dangerous armored threats on the battlefield. AV11 hits a sweet spot where simple infantry weapons can't scratch it but it is still soft enough that players hate to devote a missile to it.

also, i dont know about anyone else, but ive seen rhinos survive more gunfire than my leman russes...although, that could just be luck...
the game i played tonight i ran a stormtalon and 2 land speeders with solitary multimeltas...(couldnt afford other upgrades) the talon outlived the speeders because they were the easier target (which is fine, thats why i took them) the storm talon went on to destroy 2 leman russes and wipe half of a vet squad out before my opponent stopped trying to break my land raider (rather unsuccessfully i might add) and turned his attention to the storm guppie of death...
now i will admit, my opponent had some of the worst target priority ive ever seen, but still, 2.5 times its point costs in damage in 2 turns...

Automatically Appended Next Post:

phoenixrisin wrote:
where does it say anything about being immune to melta? did i miss it?

Ceramite plating.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jordanis wrote:

SonicPara wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Land Speeders arn't open topped. Just the LSS is.

AV11 hits a sweet spot where simple infantry weapons can't scratch it but it is still soft enough that players hate to devote a missile to it.

also, i dont know about anyone else, but ive seen rhinos survive more gunfire than my leman russes...a
now i will admit, my opponent had some of the worst target priority ive ever seen, but still, 2.5 times its point costs in damage in 2 turns...

I could see Necron guass weapons being a big problem . (Always glance on a 6+ ?) Especially since they just got their new codex and you're likely to see a lot more of them.

I really wish it could have a multimelta!

Thrawn2600 wrote:I really wish it could have a multimelta!

In fact, a multimelta would be useful, especially when the Stormtalon comes from reserve escoring an outflanking unit. This brings it unhindered into range able for side shots.

wuestenfux wrote:
In fact, a multimelta would be useful, especially when the Stormtalon comes from reserve escoring an outflanking unit. This brings it unhindered into range able for side shots.

I think this is exactly why it can't have one, that would be a nearly foolproof way to autokill/maim something expensive and important. The TLAC/TLHB as it stands now is perfectly fine IMO, makes it more versatile as well for cutting apart infantry.

SonicPara wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:
In fact, a multimelta would be useful, especially when the Stormtalon comes from reserve escoring an outflanking unit. This brings it unhindered into range able for side shots.

I think this is exactly why it can't have one, that would be a nearly foolproof way to autokill/maim something expensive and important. The TLAC/TLHB as it stands now is perfectly fine IMO, makes it more versatile as well for cutting apart infantry.

Well, the TLAC and TLHA are good against AV 10 and 11, e.g., sideshots vs. Predators or Vindicators.

SonicPara wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:
In fact, a multimelta would be useful, especially when the Stormtalon comes from reserve escoring an outflanking unit. This brings it unhindered into range able for side shots.

I think this is exactly why it can't have one, that would be a nearly foolproof way to autokill/maim something expensive and important. The TLAC/TLHB as it stands now is perfectly fine IMO, makes it more versatile as well for cutting apart infantry.

BUT BUT BUT my LSS can have a multimelta. and it does very much the same thing.

Thrawn2600 wrote:

SonicPara wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:
In fact, a multimelta would be useful, especially when the Stormtalon comes from reserve escoring an outflanking unit. This brings it unhindered into range able for side shots.

I think this is exactly why it can't have one, that would be a nearly foolproof way to autokill/maim something expensive and important. The TLAC/TLHB as it stands now is perfectly fine IMO, makes it more versatile as well for cutting apart infantry.

BUT BUT BUT my LSS can have a multimelta. and it does very much the same thing.

But now you can use the Stormtalon to escort the LSS and target two units, one heavy tank and one light tank (or infantry).

Thrawn2600 wrote:
BUT BUT BUT my LSS can have a multimelta. and it does very much the same thing.

And then what? What if your opponent is lacking any AV14? What if you roll a 1 for your single shot before getting blown away?

I love landspeeders and still use them along with my Stormtalon but the Stormtalon does a much better job as mobile fire support for another unit. As mere DPS carriages, Landspeeder Typhoons are better for the points but this does not mean that the Stormtalon does not have its place.

Get creative with it, exploit the escort rules and outflank one into your opponent's backfield and see what happens.

Get creative with it, exploit the escort rules and outflank one into your opponent's backfield and see what happens.

In fact, the enemy has to react if a Stormtalon outflanks into his backfield, otherwise it will cause havoc. This will eventually change enemy plans which can be good news for you.

wuestenfux wrote:In fact, the enemy has to react if a Stormtalon outflanks into his backfield, otherwise it will cause havoc. This will eventually change enemy plans which can be good news for you.

This is, and has been, exactly my point.

SonicPara wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:In fact, the enemy has to react if a Stormtalon outflanks into his backfield, otherwise it will cause havoc. This will eventually change enemy plans which can be good news for you.

This is, and has been, exactly my point.

Well, I'll get one soon. The combo LSS and Stormtalon escort promises some synergy.

 Grey Templar wrote:
the 60" range is a nice advantage.

That outranges 90% of all weaponry you will encounter. Only Railguns, Battle Cannons, and a few other ordinance weapons can match that.

Str7 is very good at killing transports. the ability to do that from accross the board at potentially BS5 is pretty powerful.

Yeah, but the 60" range basically puts out the 'assault' out of assault cannon, fly around the edge of the board or hover and fire off missiles.

Please don't revive threads that are more than one month dormant.