Obviously this is jumping the gun, but I'm tired of forcing Excel to do something it doesn't want to. So figured I'd take a shot at looking at Eldar based off the rumors I've seen. As an eldar player I can't say I'm particular happy. Eldar getting hit with some significant nerfs and only gaining a couple items. That being said I expect to see a lot more eldar on the table or more specifically, Eldrad and a unit of rangers in other armies.

Pros:

Rangers get to choose the targets for their AP1 shots

Hull points make killing Armour 12 vehicles fairly easy. We have a plethora of S6 weapons that can glance them easily alot. A unit of guided walkers will kill a a12 vehicle in 1 round

Some rumors seem to imply you can snapfire while turboboosting vehicles, depending on timing this could be useful.

Allies (sort of). A couple units of Grey hunters could really improve our durability, hydras could help with enemy plans, a rerolling showfield archon could provide a solid punch. However I think eldar will tend to be called upon as allies more than being the main force.

Warp spiders improve. They now get 3 attacks on the charge thanks to the impact hits.

Howling Banshees can be S4 if you can find enough of the old models with axes. Their mask ignores the unwieldy rule in round 1.

You can shoot and gain the extra movement from fleet.

Jink save for vehicles (and bikes?)

Wraithlords gan give up 1 attack to have a S20 smash attack (guessing capped at 10 so really only affects the avatar)

Meltaguns get +2 AP (do fire dragons need it?)


Cons:

Hull points make holofields worthless.

Everyone (almost) can get runes of warding

We lose our speed advantage, fleet goes from D6 extra to rerolling a D6. Not sure the math but this an inch or two difference.

Everyone gets 6+ save vs doom

Jink save not as good as turbosave

3+ to hit vehicles in combat regardless of speed moved

Everyone else can throw grenedes (ok we can to but few units have grenedes)

Everyone gains move and fire rapid fire full distance

Cover saves reduced to 5+

Overwatch hurts our assaulting units as they are only T3

Everyone else gets access to a bunch of new psychic powers

Flyers, unless you play with Forgeworld we have no anti-aircraft weapons

Power weapons are AP 3, so the only things that punch threw termintor armour are fire dragons and scorpion claws

Clearly this mostly speculation at this point but what do see in the Eldar's future?

As an Eldar player the only allies I will ever bring will be dark eldar. Grey Hunters and IG can suck it Im not bringing them.

As far as your actual post you made alot of valid points that I havent really thought of. Your compleatly right about holo fields. Generals of imperium armies getting runes of warding is an absolute load of crap, thats such a joke. You basically take the best part of eldar and give it to already overpowered armies. GW can suck it.

3+ to hit vehicles in close combat regardless of speed moved? Where did you hear that? If that is in fact true MechDar is dead.

One thing that will be interesting is Dark Eldar Allies, if we can bring alot of good units that should be alot of fun.

I wrote an article on this very subject this morning. http://www.3forint.com/2012/06/eldar-in-6th-edition-ray-of-hope.html

I think Footdar is going to see a huge increase in players. With all the S6 it can pump out and the lowered durability and points effectiveness of our own vehicles, it sounds like a tempting way to go. Although, we won't really know for sure until we've played with the new rules, so we'll see.

Yep, looks like you'll have Commorite Darkies hanging out in your threads now.

We Elves have got to stick together this edition.

So what do you think; will the errata allow Fortune to be cast on DE units?

Changes to Seer council configuration?

Smitty- I had to put the good ally options in my post even though I agree they shouldn't be taken often. Frankly neither should the dark eldar unless you have a bunch of harlequins. But a corsair style list will be viable, but pribably better with DE as base.

As for the imperium getting runes, don't worry I'm sure the Faq will change them so the only have a 6" range (not a rumor, just bitter)

Dok- If you can assault out of vehicles that is a plus, I haven't seen that rumor. Swooping hawks do get better (I forgot to put that on) however their intercept power is now useless as you never need more than a 3+ to hit. Although if they change the power to allow swooping hawks to hit flyers that would be a major buff. I also forgot about the witchblade change which is fairly major for some builds.

Mandolor- Footdar aren't shafted like mechdar but still take some fairly major hits as a result of lower cover, snapfire hurts more than it helps I think and most importantly I think you will see a lot more foot based lists resulting in meta more geared to killing foot troops

Dok wrote:I wrote an article on this very subject this morning. http://www.3forint.com/2012/06/eldar-in-6th-edition-ray-of-hope.html

There are a few excellent points here I would like to +1

Dok wrote:Secondly, I want to talk about the benefits that will affect Eldar players who play serpent spam or something similar. Jetbikes/skimmers now have a 5+ cover if they move at all. It’s called Jink (My early edition Dark Angels Brethren may remember this fondly). This is a pretty excellent survivability addition to the already excellent wave serpent. Also, we basically get flickerfields for free

This is a very nice upgrade added to wave serpents for basically free.

Dok wrote:While hull points hurt serpents, this increases their durability by 33%.
By far, the most interesting change to vehicles (imo) is the ability to move 6”, disembark your troops (Banshees), and then still be able to move and Assault! Again, fleet has been a little nerfed, but you have a threat range of 14-24” out of a serpent

This is also very nice. Basically it gives all Eldar serpents assault ramps -- which is a very nice perk! You can use it to assault with your warlocks or your banshees. While banshees will now bounce off terminators, they can clobber the hell out of a lot of other targets. As mentioned, you an replace them all with power axes for STR 4 smash factor -- making them much more in line with DCAs.

Dok wrote:Pathfinders (any models with sniper weapons?) select their targets on a 6, also they will be ap1

Pathfinders get either AP1 or Rending often. The ability to select their targets mean you can quickly neutralize heavy/special weapons or special characters such as IG commissars.

Here are some other points.
* DE and Eldar have some nice synergy. Autoarchs and webway portals, for example. DE venoms combined with fire dragons.

* Moving 12" and firing 2 weapons for serpents mean that serpents are getting 7 STR 6 shots a turn. Since you now can burn down hull points, thats more of a threat than it used to be.

* If what I read is correct, all skimmers can move 30" -- which means your getting star engines for free.

From what I've read online (don't have the book yet), it actually appears more the Avengers and Dragons are useful.

I keep looking at 10 Warp Spiders (w/ Exarch and Powerblades) w/ Autarch (Warp Jump Generator, Powerweapon, Manditblaser, Power Wpn). If you cast Doom on whatever unit they plan to attack, they are extremely useful.

I'm not clear how rending works now, but I've read that is has gone back to 4th edition; roll a '6' to hit and it autowounds and is AP2. If this is the case, Harlies can be a fantastic counterassault unit.

How do Witchblades work now? I read AP3 and S7-this would really make a Seer Council even more useful; still can tarpit, but actually do some damage in return.

S6 shooting appears to be even more effective against armor 11 and 12. With only 2-3 hull points, we can effectively glance vehicles to death. I can fully expect 3 War Walkers w/ Scatterlasers to pop Rhinos/Chimera chasis in a single volley.

With allies (not a fan at all of this), DE (brothers in arms) can create some absolutely crazy combos: Fortuned Shadowfields sitting in Seer Councils/Wraithguard units; Fortuned Beastmaster squads (would an Avatar make them Fearless.....?)

On one hand, I really don't like the allies system. On the other hand, it opens up a whole new batch of Jes Goodwin designed models (Dark Eldar, in my case).

AP 3 witchblades would be cool, the rumors I've seen have them as poisoned (2+) S3, AP4 2D6 vs vehicles. As someone pointed out Fortune/Guide only works on Eldar units (unless FAQ'ed). So maybe you won't see them everywhere. (who am I kidding, you'll see them with Doom and runes, you just might not see Eldrad everywhere.

On a more positive note, what units that don't see much play do you think will get on the board more often? I'm definitely thinking Hawks and Spiders, maybe Dark Reapers too? If people do indeed start taking less transports then they become so much deadlier vs MEQ.

I think you see a lot more 2 HQ eldar armies out there and all of them have benefits, including the phoenix lords now that power weapons are AP3.

Hawks and Spiders will see more table tops but are still too expensive. They are better and if intercept is change to work vs flyers, they will be a near mandatory requirement. Spiders were underrated before and this will get more people trying them out.

Banshees and Scorpions coming out of an allied webway portal could be fun

Nightspinners are better.

I still don't see a place for guardians (any variety), shining spears or vypers.

That's because Guardians, Shinign Spears and Vypers need to be updated terribly. The changes are quick and easy IMHO, but they need it.

Guardians - give them 18" shuriken catapults... come on.. or a +1 BS on the platform?

Shining Spears - Inv save? or more importantly... a pistol! they have an awesome one handed cc weapon but no pistol... LAME

Vypers - Just plain too expensive... but maybe not with these new skimmer rules and such. scout or outflanking would be awesome though...


Personally I'm worried about anti-TEQ - I mean Banshees have been THE TEQ slayer for the Eldar since their invention, now they are really effective MEQ killers... So now we shoot Termies... or charge them with Harlequins (if rending is ap2)

Gangrel767 wrote:
Personally I'm worried about anti-TEQ - I mean Banshees have been THE TEQ slayer for the Eldar since their invention, now they are really effective MEQ killers... So now we shoot Termies... or charge them with Harlequins (if rending is ap2)

Agreed. We need Starcannons to drop in points a little, that'd be a start

With overwatch, probably nobody's going to want to charge a unit of 20 guardians.

If it's true that AP2 adds +1 to the vehicle damage table, Wraithcannons, brightlances and pulse lasers (and starcannons) all get an antitank bonus.

Depending on how artillery rules have been changed, batteries of dirt-cheap shadow weaver shots, with the whole template now str6 against vehicles, might become a decent choice again.

Even though they're expensive, starcannons might become the go-to gun again for taking down terminators.

steinerp wrote:Dok- If you can assault out of vehicles that is a plus, I haven't seen that rumor. Swooping hawks do get better (I forgot to put that on) however their intercept power is now useless as you never need more than a 3+ to hit. Although if they change the power to allow swooping hawks to hit flyers that would be a major buff. I also forgot about the witchblade change which is fairly major for some builds.

You are correct sir. I had missed the ws1 on vehicles thing. I would imagine JI would be able to assault flyers, but I haven't heard anything specific to that. The witchblade change is sad. But, a council with multiple destructors will be a very scary thing to charge.

labmouse42 wrote:There are a few excellent points here I would like to +1

Thanks!

It does look like Harlequins are going to be must haves, now with rending

I will get to use my Blackmoor pattern war walkers again.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/124100.page

Warp Spiders can now kill vehicles.

The wave serpent assault army might be back.

DE add great synergy.

labmouse42 wrote:
By far, the most interesting change to vehicles (imo) is the ability to move 6”, disembark your troops (Banshees), and then still be able to move and Assault! Again, fleet has been a little nerfed, but you have a threat range of 14-24” out of a serpent. This is also very nice. Basically it gives all Eldar serpents assault ramps -- which is a very nice perk! You can use it to assault with your warlocks or your banshees. While banshees will now bounce off terminators, they can clobber the hell out of a lot of other targets. As mentioned, you an replace them all with power axes for STR 4 smash factor -- making them much more in line with DCAs.

you cannot assault after you get out of a transport. So you can move 6", disembark 6" but then you cannot assault. Lame and poorly worded.


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Flavius Infernus wrote:With overwatch, probably nobody's going to want to charge a unit of 20 guardians.

no one with a 5+ save. Unless you get the shoot at normal BS psykic power 20 guardians are going to get ~6.8 hits ~3.4 and ~1.1 dead Meq.

Flavius Infernus wrote:
If it's true that AP2 adds +1 to the vehicle damage table, Wraithcannons, brightlances and pulse lasers (and starcannons) all get an antitank bonus.

the new damage talbe is more favorable, only destroying a vehicle on a 6 instead of a 5 or 6 so bright lances are just as effective(or ineffective) as they use to be.

People are greatly overestimating how good overwatch is.

Blackmoor wrote:People are greatly overestimating how good overwatch is.

Agreed. So agreed.

+1 as well especially since Eldar typically won't have aceess to the full BS power unless they run two farseers

Warlocks won't be providing it?

The rumor thread says Dangerous Terrain now allows armor saves. That's a knock against Night Spinner.

If fast vehicles can move 12" and fire 2 guns at full BS, then the Falcon can be used as a gunboat. For 130 points you can get a scatter laser and the pulse laser.
If you do not want to have DE allies in a fragile AV 10 vehicle, you can stick them in these falcons giving them better protection.

Edit : I heard someone say allies cannot ride in transports. Not sure if they applies to falcons. If it does -- well poop.

Lucre- nope, just farseers from what I've seen

Quark- Haven't seen that, if true nightspinner is still probably better overall but not by as much

Also one rumor I saw from someone with a book is that you can now only keep 1/2 army in reserve, this is a big problem as shortening the game was key to some builds

labmouse42 wrote:If fast vehicles can move 12" and fire 2 guns at full BS, then the Falcon can be used as a gunboat. For 130 points you can get a scatter laser and the pulse laser.
If you do not want to have DE allies in a fragile AV 10 vehicle, you can stick them in these falcons giving them better protection.

Edit : I heard someone say allies cannot ride in transports. Not sure if they applies to falcons. If it does -- well poop.

depends on what kind of ally i think


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steinerp wrote:+1 as well especially since Eldar typically won't have aceess to the full BS power unless they run two farseers

warlocks have powers. run lots of them in a council and have them swap their powers. The full BS power is random though, you have to roll a 1 on the divination chart.

Exergy, are you sure the white dwarf only included farseers

steinerp wrote:Exergy, are you sure the white dwarf only included farseers

I am not, I had the book in hand yesterday and was reading it over, but I am not really use to psykers

steinerp wrote:Exergy, are you sure the white dwarf only included farseers

Yes

Dark reapers got a marginal buff due to snapshotting and cover saves being decreased! Still expensive, but worth noting.

If Jetbikes get Hammer of Wrath.... I can see the Shining Spears being awesome. Give them their +1 A they have been missing... then they can really hit and run!

I have some hopes for Eldar FAQ, for instance:
Pathfinders will be able to allocate wounds on 5+.
SH Intercept will allow hitting the fliers on 4+.
Let's not kid ourselves, there will be no major changes to Guardians or Dire Avengers.

It's too bad that there are no good bonuses that we can share between battle brothers. Fortune / guide are Eldar only. Markerlights are Tau only. Can DE give us anything?
IoM can easily benefit from our RoW, Vulkan, Sang Priests, OotF etc.

[I don't want to go on a whinefest, but it doesn't look good people. Of course nothing can compare to Tyranids and their allies. If there is no balancing factor GW really, really dropped the ball there. I won't be mentioning them but I really want to hug the bug players]
I feel like all troops in other armies are getting some kind of boost: no-retreat gone is huge for orks and a nice bonus for SMs, rapid fire for everybody bar Orks. Our already not so great troops gained nothing from general rules. Mechdar gets with 3+ to hit in CC. In shooting Jinx balances itself nicely with HP, at least I think it does, but Warwalkers will die a bit too fast.
Rangers are cool addition but nothing spectacular. 10 will get 2 sixes (let's be generous), one of those will wound and there is still 4+ Look Out Sir and possible cover. 50% from 190 point unit is not that great.
This isn't the end of the world (for mechdar it may be), but it won't get any easier.
The one good thing from vehicle nerf is that in our next book we may get a significant discount on vehicles.

DE gives us Web Way Portals. Reserve units and bring them on mid field. Great for Footdar.

I agree, I really do love my Eldar, but 6th looks like it's going to hit them hard.

The OP's summed it up excellently, but what I'm most off about is that everyone else is gaining our traits - the things that made Eldar Eldar.

Firstly, with this whole new Flier-Craze, and rumours about more coming out, everyone else will have fast vehicles. Secondly, everyone else is getting Shiny New Psychic Powers, which are probably going to be very good. It also annoys me that Eldar, probably the most potent psykers in the galaxy, have access to only 2 of these New Disciplines, where as the Space Marines, the pathetic human beings whose minds are so weak and easily corrupted that their largest threat is themselves, get access to all 5 *spits on ground*. Finally, and what really, really, makes me mad is this whole Allies system. Many people will, as the OP says, take a Farseer (or Eldrad, if it's allowed) and some Rangers/other stuff, but will never actually use Eldar armies. It's disgraceful. Then there's all the other stuff, like nerfs on Vehicles, Rapid Fire being improved, Fleet being nerfed etc, etc, etc, etc, etc

Yeah, I guess there's a few hopes. It'd be nice to possibly be able to field Warp Spiders and Shining Spears, Rangers get a cool boost, and who knows, maybe FootDar will begin to reign supreme. And hey, maybe the Erratas will rectify Holofields and all the other stuff that's been stomped by the Marine-Shaped Boot of GW. And the biggest light of hope is the possibility/rumours of a new codex in early 2013. And, I tell you, it better make the Eldar able to crush entire units with Psychic might, or zoom across the battlefield in a turn, to cancel out all these nerfs we've been dealt.

So, you may find me OTT, but I really do love the Eldar and, although I will keep playing them, I hate to lose the comfort and power I've felt with using them these past few years. And if it doesn't work out, I'll possibly just slink back into the cosy refines of WHFB, where the Eldar's Pointy-Eared Counterparts still have the Speed and Magical Supremacy they deserve.

/rant

jbunny wrote:DE gives us Web Way Portals. Reserve units and bring them on mid field. Great for Footdar.

IMO this is the future of Eldar.

really frustrating that I have 12 armor12 vehicles....whatever tho ill go feth myself.

That was my thought as well, until someone with a rulebook over on BOLS said that units can only assault if they started on the board at the beginning of the turn.

I wonder if av12 fast skimmers will end up being that bad.
I guess they might feel overcosted. I do like the new autocover, I wonder how that is supposed to interact with DE Flicker Fields..

I also get the feeling that the amount of str 6 fire that can be bought in a mech eldar list is going to be quite a boon.

I think av13 firing from over 24 will feel pretty safe, I wonder if the same will go for av12 with a jink. I guess 135ish point missile falcons don't sound all that awful. You could also be trying to get within 24 with them and really kill the crap out of something with the addition of a shuriken cannon, but it's probably not very cost effective at that kind of range.

Hahhaa you guys can all just make scythe spam lists if you want something that feels similar.Torrents are not as important in 6th (when cover gets crappier, AP weaponry gets better), but boy, those 5 average hits are going to be murder with the glance rules and the AP- buff. Not to mention gauss squads and stormteks are going to be feeling a lot more like little groups of fire dragons.

You are getting something like 4.5 hits at str6 with a scatter/shuricannon serpent at 24 range, and what I believe will be a little more survivability at 125 points. Just a matter of figuring out what good the rest of your army is doing. I don't think Serpents are going to be the draw anymore, unless tank shocking is nuts or we get something else that is awesome. Barring that, if serpents are your ace, and you don't have a lot of tricks built into your list, I think you could just be playing a more efficient army elsewhere at this point.

So I've been playing wraithguard. I haven't kept up on rumours, the though being I would just go over the book when I get it. So as far as wraithguard go, how does overwatch look for them?

Smitty0305 wrote:

jbunny wrote:DE gives us Web Way Portals. Reserve units and bring them on mid field. Great for Footdar.

IMO this is the future of Eldar.

Yeah, but somehow, I doubt that Allies will be able to make use of the main army's Rules or Equipment, or vice versa. I mean, it just makes sense. Sure, Eldar coming from a Webway Portal doesn't seem that strange, but what if the DE were Allied with Orks, or SM? Orks, coming from a Webway Portal?! I thought the Webway Portal led to Commoragh?

TheHarleqwin wrote:So I've been playing wraithguard. I haven't kept up on rumours, the though being I would just go over the book when I get it. So as far as wraithguard go, how does overwatch look for them?

Not great, I don't think. Mostly because Wraithguard Units are relatively small. With 10, shooting off BS1 with Overwatch, statistically only 1.666... will hit. That's not great when you're being charged by 30 Ork Boyz.

I think the sharing of rules would rely on the "battle brothers" designations.

Something else Ive just learned could be a Pro for 6th Edition Eldar (sorry if this has been said already): At 2000pts, you can use 2 FoCs. So, while other armies can take a Farseer, they can't take 4

Macok wrote:
[I don't want to go on a whinefest, but it doesn't look good people. Of course nothing can compare to Tyranids and their allies. If there is no balancing factor GW really, really dropped the ball there. I won't be mentioning them but I really want to hug the bug players]

HUG ME.

The Shadow wrote:It also annoys me that Eldar, probably the most potent psykers in the galaxy, have access to only 2 of these New Disciplines, where as the Space Marines, the pathetic human beings whose minds are so weak and easily corrupted that their largest threat is themselves, get access to all 5 *spits on ground*.

Yes, it's ridiculous. One can only hope that the Eldar get certain unique bonuses or something. Secondly; 'biomancy' isn't even unique to Tyranids (because Space Marines get it - hell, the IMPERIAL GUARD get it!), and even though the bugs are "the other psykers", they still don't get access to much. It's just somewhat frustrating. Fluff-wise, I'd say Librarians get Divination and Pyromancy, because all they do is divine and blow stuff up (It's also kind of amusing that the Grey Knights - THE psykerMarines - get fewer schools than Blood Angels do). However, like biomancy should be for Tyranids, divination should probably be unique to the Eldar. Because, you know, it's their thing. What next? Space Marines with shuriken-catapult bioweapons, toxin sacs and Banshee masks? Neither of us can complain as much as the one person who plays Chaos Daemons, though. The Warp-spawn get no Warp abilities. I... I don't even.

However, I take solace in the minor buff given to Monstrous Creatures. But one can only shudder to think what horrors the rules have in store for them and their ilk...

MadCowCrazy, via the 6E rumour sticky wrote:Forging a Narrative
In 40k there's nothing more important than being able to tell a story as you play, or as we've called it in the rulebook, Forging a Narrative. With that in mind, there are a number of rules to accommodate how individual models can make a difference to the battle without bogging the game down. Some of these rules are quite subtle, such as characters being able to pick out individual targets; others are more obvious and integral to the game, like challenging your opponent to a duel.

Have you ever imagined how cool it would be to bring down a Monstrous Creature by throwing a krak grenade into its mouth? Well, you can!

I might just be being paranoid, but this fills me with a little dread. What, instantly kill my 6-wound Trygon by rolling a 6 To Hit with a grenade? How much are krak grenades, 5pts? Free? Do you know how much Monstrous Creatures cost? Also, what about the ones that don't even have mouths? Like AHEM DREADKNIGHT AHEM NOT A WALKER.

The only good thing from this is the potential to turn Genestealer Broodlords into a cheap cannon:

"Vortex of Doom, warp charge 2, range 12". Vortex of doom is a Witchfire power with the following profile - S10 AP1, Heavy1, Blast* *If the psychic test is failed centre the template on the psyker, it does not scatter." . That Infiltrating and/or Outflanking? Yes, please.

EDIT: Oh, yeah, also; the allies are ridiculous. I wouldn't want Tyranids to ally. But if they can't, how come Necrons can? Orks can? Why are Eldar and Dark Eldar "Brothers in Arms"? Orks and Chaos Marines, and Tau, and Necron - not BiA, but why even at all? These are not things that grudgingly ally with each other. This makes no sense.

My favourite? Sisters of Battle hate Marines, especially the Black Templars, despite the BT and the SoBs being absolute bros because they both hate them some xenos with holy fury. Speaking of - Black Templars and Eldar? In other words, the single most xenophobic Chapter allied with aliens? Oh, why can't Grey Knights ally with Daemons, then? Other than the fact that that'd boost daemons. But most Marines can't ally with Orks... and GK can.

Also, the paradox of the Imperial Guard. "Grudging Allies" of Chaos, but "Brothers in Arms" to Imperial factions. Obviously the "BiA" represents Imperial Guard. One can only assume the 'allied with Chaos' guard are in fact, Traitor Guardsmen. In which case, why "Grudging Allies"? This is just a way to screw over Chaos Marines yet again; loyalists get Imperial support, but Chaos get crappy Chaos support. At least they have daemons again, but that's kind of no consolation.

The possible excuses for most of these are ridiculous, in of themselves, from a fluff standpoint. Therefore, why not y'know, Guard and Tyranids? Because screw canon! Or stretch belief by saying "Everything is Genestealer cult". Not that I particularly want allies (I will never use them in any army I play except maybe Chaos x Daemons or something), but it seems like Tyranids were shafted on purpose, considering that yes, no Tyranid allies makes sense... but the rest does not. I'm glad to see that the Blood Angels aren't Super Unicorn Princess Best Friends Forever with Necrons, even though "Grudging Allies" is freaking stupid for the Necrons, but since the retcron they're people now so whatever.

ALSO DAEMONS AND ELDAR LAWL.

steinerp wrote:That was my thought as well, until someone with a rulebook over on BOLS said that units can only assault if they started on the board at the beginning of the turn.

Ok well then good thing I can bring 4 Farseers and 18 war walkers and laugh as I table every army in 2 turns.

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Lucre wrote:I wonder if av12 fast skimmers will end up being that bad.
I guess they might feel overcosted. I do like the new autocover, I wonder how that is supposed to interact with DE Flicker Fields..

I also get the feeling that the amount of str 6 fire that can be bought in a mech eldar list is going to be quite a boon.

I think av13 firing from over 24 will feel pretty safe, I wonder if the same will go for av12 with a jink. I guess 135ish point missile falcons don't sound all that awful. You could also be trying to get within 24 with them and really kill the crap out of something with the addition of a shuriken cannon, but it's probably not very cost effective at that kind of range.

Hahhaa you guys can all just make scythe spam lists if you want something that feels similar.Torrents are not as important in 6th (when cover gets crappier, AP weaponry gets better), but boy, those 5 average hits are going to be murder with the glance rules and the AP- buff. Not to mention gauss squads and stormteks are going to be feeling a lot more like little groups of fire dragons.

You are getting something like 4.5 hits at str6 with a scatter/shuricannon serpent at 24 range, and what I believe will be a little more survivability at 125 points. Just a matter of figuring out what good the rest of your army is doing. I don't think Serpents are going to be the draw anymore, unless tank shocking is nuts or we get something else that is awesome. Barring that, if serpents are your ace, and you don't have a lot of tricks built into your list, I think you could just be playing a more efficient army elsewhere at this point.

Are you volunteering to buy and build and paint a gold and blue necron army for me? can I just have 9 war walkers?


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The Shadow wrote:Something else Ive just learned could be a Pro for 6th Edition Eldar (sorry if this has been said already): At 2000pts, you can use 2 FoCs. So, while other armies can take a Farseer, they can't take 4

O good 18 War Walkers rofl.

couple points that haven;t been made.

1. Farseers have the two best lores. One of them ideplicates a lot of the eldar psychic powers. The default for telepathy is guide by another name. That said, farseers are important. Doom and DE and the crazy amount of posion shots might be the strongest combo in the gamenow that you can pop trasnports so quickly.

2. Waveserpents. AV12 transports are pretty much as goodas you get and we have one with 2 weapons. Note if you run the math 2 x 3 shot S6 weapons statistically kills a rhino a turn. So are waveserpents the beast they used to be? No, but they are actually good compared to a lot of tansports now and the rules are perfec for their weapon payload.

3. FIRE PRISMS - Yes. You no longer need the hole to be on a vehicle for the blast template to be full strength. So fire prisms are really good at parking lot busting. It's also much harder to stop a fire prism from shooting with stun glance being harder toget

4. Harlies - The rending is good again due to the new wound allocation rules. Also haywires are really good, so look towrad grenade launchers and haywire grenades.

5. artillery are T7 2w now. They might be more viable

6. autarches on jetbikes. zoom "48 is interesting with a fusion gun, he can also be pretty good in hth. also with reserves starting on 3+ you are pretty much guarnteed to get what you want in.

7. scorps with hay wires maybe? It's unclear if you can throw haywire grenades, but we will have to wait for FAQ

8. fire dragons are hard to deploy now.... you can only ever disembark if the vehicle only moved 6"... so you would have to zoom up the turn before, then move the tank, disembark and shoot. kind of a screw you to fast armies

9. hth against vehicles is basically 3+ to hit, so eldar tanks are really vulnerable to charges now.

10. see councils seem dead.

deFl0 wrote:
2. Waveserpents. AV12 transports are pretty much as goodas you get and we have one with 2 weapons. Note if you run the math 2 x 3 shot S6 weapons statistically kills a rhino a turn. So are waveserpents the beast they used to be? No, but they are actually good compared to a lot of tansports now and the rules are perfec for their weapon payload.

3. FIRE PRISMS - Yes. You no longer need the hole to be on a vehicle for the blast template to be full strength. So fire prisms are really good at parking lot busting. It's also much harder to stop a fire prism from shooting with stun glance being harder toget

8. fire dragons are hard to deploy now.... you can only ever disembark if the vehicle only moved 6"... so you would have to zoom up the turn before, then move the tank, disembark and shoot. kind of a screw you to fast armies

2 & 3 - Good to note that apparently Fast Skimmers can move 12" in Mvmt and then 18" in the shooting phase instead of shooting... so the mobility is at it's utmost now. The only thing I am honestly worried about is the availability of Skyfire and flakk missiles....

#8 - Apparently you get to disembark 6" from access point though, so it's not a huge difference, and also the FD won't be the only AT in the list anymore because of the beauty of Hull Points, so you shouldnt have to suicide squad them anymore

deFl0 wrote:couple points that haven;t been made.

4. Harlies - The rending is good again due to the new wound allocation rules. Also haywires are really good, so look towrad grenade launchers and haywire grenades.

...

7. scorps with hay wires maybe? It's unclear if you can throw haywire grenades, but we will have to wait for FAQ

Neither of these units have haywire grenades, only Autarchs and Swooping Hawks do.

deFl0 wrote:10. see councils seem dead.

Warlocks with Destructor auto-hitting 1d3 in overwatch/snap-fire would like a word with you.

Not to mention you can't nerf fortuned Invulnerable saves. and when they get on their jetbikes... things get awesome. Jetbikes are getting a pretty good buff.

steinerp wrote:
[/list][list] Flyers, unless you play with Forgeworld we have no anti-aircraft weapons

After reading the actual book...

It looks like you can always buy an aegis wall with a gun emplacement for 100 points or less. Interceptor (shoot when it arrives) and skyfire (use regular BS), and twin-linking also possible. Put an exarch on the trigger for BS5.

Also it looks like all our exarchs get to allocate the wound when they roll a 6 to hit. That makes exarchs who get a lot of shots (DA with twin cats) or exarchs who can get crack shot (ignore cover) especially interesting...

Is that a squad leader rule, or have something to do with BS5?

It's a character rule. Any character who rolls a 6 to hit gets to allocate that hit. Shooting or close combat.

This also applies to death jesters.

Asurmen with his free rerolls to hit gets a little boost on that count.

Also you don't really need an autarch for reserve bonuses anymore, since reserve rolls are now 3+ on turn 2&3, then automatic on turn 4. If you really want the +1 for reserves, it's cheaper than a basic autarch to get an aegis wall with comms relay to reroll you reserves rolls. And it doesn't use up a HQ slot.

Eldar bikes have been buffed.

While their 3+ turbo-boost save has been nurfed, their total speed has increased

I hear they have hammer of wrath too, which will help seer councils.

How about the Seer Council? What I've heard here is that it gets weaker. Some comments please? (I'll pick up the rulebook on Monday).

It looks like all bikes have been boosted in that they just add +1 to base toughness now, no different toughness value for purposes of instant death.

So a farseer/autarch on a bike isn't instajibbed by T6 shots anymore.

But, according to the FAQ that came out this morning, Harlies veil of tears is replaced by stealth and shrouding :(

Flavius Infernus wrote:It looks like all bikes have been boosted in that they just add +1 to base toughness now, no different toughness value for purposes of instant death.

So a farseer/autarch on a bike isn't instajibbed by T6 shots anymore.

But, according to the FAQ that came out this morning, Harlies veil of tears is replaced by stealth and shrouding :(

I like the speed options they have. 12" move combined with a 24" turbo boost. I also saw they can move again in the assault phase (unsure if they can do this after turbo-boosting)

While eldar bikes may not have much shooty, they have a lot of movement. This might be extremely important, depending on how objectives play out.

Eldar jetbikes can either take a 12" move and 2d6 assault move, or a 36" turbo. Eldar in general might also benefit from speed in the way that the new wound allocation rules work.

People will tend to put the valuable models at the back of the unit, and Eldar units like jetbikes have the mobility to zoom around the back of the unit and shoot. Even shuriken catapults can do the job if you're just trying to snipe the missile guy or whatever.

Well, mech Eldar seems to get nerfed a bit.

Eldar vehicles are now easier to take down:
(1) 3 hull points means 3 glancing hits and the vehicle is gone,
(2) in cc vehicles are always hit on 3+.

On the other hand, shooting with a Serpent or a Falcon is now a bit more dangerous for the enemy, since fast vehicles can move 12'' and shoot 2 weapons (as far as I know).

Warp spiders still have an ignore armor saves weapon. Lol

pretre wrote:Warp spiders still have an ignore armor saves weapon. Lol

Warp Spiders are a very vulnerable unit that they always were. But I know one can do crazy things with them.

Like I said in another topic. The FAQ is just disappointing.
Changing working VoT and leaving Intercept and Surprise Assault? That's just sad.

Flavius Infernus wrote:With overwatch, probably nobody's going to want to charge a unit of 20 guardians.

If it's true that AP2 adds +1 to the vehicle damage table, Wraithcannons, brightlances and pulse lasers (and starcannons) all get an antitank bonus.

Depending on how artillery rules have been changed, batteries of dirt-cheap shadow weaver shots, with the whole template now str6 against vehicles, might become a decent choice again.

Even though they're expensive, starcannons might become the go-to gun again for taking down terminators.

20 Guardians kill 1 Space Marine at BS 1. That's not scary at all.


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Thanks to the person who pointed out the benefit of allying with DE giving Eldar WWP's! This had never crossed my mind. As much as the idea of "allying" DE and Eldar together make me sick, I can easily convert an Archon to be a Corsair Prince or something.

Not being able to assault out of a WWP isn't really that big of a deal since Footdar isn't awesome at assault anways. This just gives a Footdar list some more flexibility with deployment, and can help in matchups against long range gunlines that the shorter Eldar weapons have issues dealing with.

So, apparently GW can't count to 5 (I do not possess this ability either).
VoT FAQ states to replace second and third sentence and add Shrouding and Stealth. Thanks to their error VoT now gains those two abilities while loosing nothing.
I think I need to play with this FAQ fast before they will fix this (obvious) mistake.

That just made Veil of Tears even better. Especially since the part about following Warlock power rules does not matter (See further down in the FAQ about SHadowseer Psychic Mastery).

So now they have a 4+ cover save (when not in cover) AND they have to be spotted first to shoot at them.

Not sure how the spotting distance thing is going to work in the new rules though.

I also see Singing Spears being slightly better (ftm) compared to Witchblades when trying ot take out vehicles:
Witchblade - 2D6+3 armour pen
Singing Spear 9+D6 for armour pen

Too lazy to math-hammer to see what the probability to glance/pen is.

Griever wrote:
Thanks to the person who pointed out the benefit of allying with DE giving Eldar WWP's! This had never crossed my mind. As much as the idea of "allying" DE and Eldar together make me sick, I can easily convert an Archon to be a Corsair Prince or something.

Not being able to assault out of a WWP isn't really that big of a deal since Footdar isn't awesome at assault anways. This just gives a Footdar list some more flexibility with deployment, and can help in matchups against long range gunlines that the shorter Eldar weapons have issues dealing with.

keep reading, the DE faq says allies cannot come out of the WWP

Macok wrote:So, apparently GW can't count to 5 (I do not possess this ability either).
VoT FAQ states to replace second and third sentence and add Shrouding and Stealth. Thanks to their error VoT now gains those two abilities while loosing nothing.
I think I need to play with this FAQ fast before they will fix this (obvious) mistake.

Hahaha, I guess they meant "paragraph" and not "sentence." I wonder how that will play out.

my Eldar playing buddy who doesn't post on Dakka has a question about the new Eldar 6E FAQ:

"A Farseer (including Eldrad Ulthran) may use the psychic
disciplines found in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook, instead of those in Codex: Eldar. If he does so, for each psychic power he has purchased from Codex: Eldar, generate a new power from either the Divination or Telepathy discipline (in any combination) before armies are deployed. Eldrad Ulthran generates four new powers."

His questions: "Does that mean Eldrad gets 3 eldar only abilities or 4 non eldar abilities? It's not very clear. Can he mix and match?"

Another question: it says for each power purchased you can generate a new power. Does that mean if I want to generate two new powers, I can buy Guide and Mind War and have the same effect as if I bought Fortune and Doom, only saving 15 points?

MandalorynOranj wrote:Another question: it says for each power purchased you can generate a new power. Does that mean if I want to generate two new powers, I can buy Guide and Mind War and have the same effect as if I bought Fortune and Doom, only saving 15 points?

yes if you plan on subbing out powers it is best to buy cheap powers in the first place.

I'm curious as to other folks' opinions on whether or not changes to other armies might make Starcannons more common again. Previously, I'd switched to Scatter Lasers for the extra shots against light vehicles. With the changes to power weapons, I'm wondering if it is important to have another source of AP2 weaponry in the army.

I think you'll see starcannons coming back not just because we'll need more Ap2 for termies, but also because cover got worse.

I'll be running some star cannons on one of three war walkers to start.

I was reading the psychic power section and the book makes it very clear that a psyker must have LoS to the target. Specifically mentioned is being inside of a transport. Does this stop a farseer from casting fortune and guide at friendlies from a serpent or do we have a specific line somewhere that allows us to do so?

The entry about "Farseer Psychic Powers" p. 28 "Unless otherwise noted [...] and do not require the Eldar psyker to have line of sight to target".
I guess as a specific Eldar psychic power entry it is more important than BRB one.

Well, codex normally overrides rulebook.

Indeed it says so on page 7 in the bottom right corner.

I've began trying to piece together a tactica on the new eldar playstyles.. do you think we could start listing some new possiblities we find in our codex via the FAQ and new rulebook?

Here's a few things I've noticed..

1) Harliquins are right now very very solid. We are all fairly certain their FAQ is in error, and that they will lose the requirement to be spotted eventually.

While that is a semi-nerf, keep in mind that with shrouding and scout, a squad of Harliquins can outflank onto the board, run into cover, and enjoy a 2+ cover save for the round.

2) Eldar Jetbikes were definataly buffed. While you cannot gain a 3+ cover anymore, the large range is very useful. Note that Guardian Jetbikes are more durable, but cannot hide in reserves as long before coming to play.

3) Fire Prisms are about the same. On the brightside, they enjoy the new blast rules and might have more purpose with the incoming rise of TEQ's. Also, you probably won't feel the need to purchase any Holo-fields and Spirit Stones anymore.

4) Weapon Support Batteries Improved. Especially with the ability to move the infantry around but not lose the ability to fire if the weapons stay still. (Ie, each round you keep 1 guardian in front of each weapon. Shots are against T7 per artillery rules. Wounds still resolve vs the closest model. If your guardian dies, shuffle another up. Plus the cannon itself gained 2 wounds. Putting these things in an Aegis Defense Line or a bigger bastion is very doable,

D Cannons remain about the same. Glancing is better but the short range hurts.

Shadow Weavers improve tremendously. Note that with a double force orginizational chart, you can have 4 cheap Farseers with the "new" guide from divination aiding the shots of 12 STR 6 templates.. Technically, you could have up to 18 of these weapons..

Vibro Cannons become monstrous. Re-rollable (via powers) 36 inch lines that can hit units in CC and AUTOGLANCE vehicles on a hit is great. If you max these batteries out you could reliably kill 3 vehicles per turn and potentially glance 6 to death. And thats assuming you only hit 1 vehicle per 36 inch line.

5) Iyanden lists are doable for those fluff nutts. 20 Wraithguard can meet minimum troop obligations and leave room for 6 Wraithlords. Then take Yriel and it's a fluff list!

6) Seer Councils on Jetbikes may finally be worth the points of a maxed out unit. I'd attach two Farseers to it I think for the bigger range of powers. Witchblades didn't lose anything in melee really. 3+2d6 is an average of 10. I'm not clear on S.Spears. Does throwing them still count as Str 9?

Also, with a 36 inch range and rerollable 3+/4++ and the ability to take armor vs terrain tests, we can move up really well. And there's usually nightfight T1 anyways.

7) DE rerollable 2++ saves are ridiculous and tasty. I can see DE adding a lot of dimensions to our lists, should we choose to forgive our wayward cousins and except their aid.

8: With people getting really fancy with troop formations now, Eldar will have a great ability to mess with coherency. Rangers alone can usually eke out 2 precise shots with 9 shooters, and that alone might be enough. Then add jumppacks and jetbikes and it's very possible to throw off enemy forces with only a few wounds.

9) We do STR 6 spam better than anyone. Eldar glance-to-death armies gain power.

10) Swooping hawks can intercept flyers and plant grenades on a 4+. Might be worth a try.

Thunderfrog wrote:
2) Eldar Jetbikes were definataly buffed. While you cannot gain a 4+ cover anymore...

According to the Jink special rule (which all Bikes have), Turbo-boosting models (which Jetbikes can do) gain a 4+ cover save.

Unless you were thinking of the 3+ cover save from the prior edition, in which case... yes, a minor nerf.

Magc8Ball wrote:

Thunderfrog wrote:
2) Eldar Jetbikes were definataly buffed. While you cannot gain a 4+ cover anymore...

According to the Jink special rule (which all Bikes have), Turbo-boosting models (which Jetbikes can do) gain a 4+ cover save.

Unless you were thinking of the 3+ cover save from the prior edition, in which case... yes, a minor nerf.

This. Will edit.

Anyone else thinking Holofields aren't going to be worth the points anymore?

djones520 wrote:Anyone else thinking Holofields aren't going to be worth the points anymore?

Well, it appears that they are only in use when the tank get a penetrating hit. For a glancing hit, no roll on the chart is made. So three glancing hits and the tank is dead; the holofield comes not into effect.

Magc8Ball wrote:I'm curious as to other folks' opinions on whether or not changes to other armies might make Starcannons more common again. Previously, I'd switched to Scatter Lasers for the extra shots against light vehicles. With the changes to power weapons, I'm wondering if it is important to have another source of AP2 weaponry in the army.

How many power weapons did you bring to take down terminators before? I don't seem to remember many army lists with banshees.

You can expect to see a slight rise in terminator armies, but as people start bringing more PGs, the meta will shift back away from the terminator armies and you will see as many as you do today.

So, do you really need to alter your meta to deal with terminators as eldar? Probably not. Keep your fire dragons, they will do the job just as well vs normal terminators and bounce off TH/SS terminators -- just like before.


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Thunderfrog wrote:Vibro Cannons become monstrous. Re-rollable (via powers) 36 inch lines that can hit units in CC and AUTOGLANCE vehicles on a hit is great. If you max these batteries out you could reliably kill 3 vehicles per turn and potentially glance 6 to death. And thats assuming you only hit 1 vehicle per 36 inch line.

I've been looking at this, and I'm not sure it works that way.

The rule says that when you have a battery, you roll to hit with each battery. If one vibrocannon hits, then you draw a 36" line from any vibrocannon.
The section on vibrocannons effect on armor is the following "A target with an Armor Value that is hit by a vibro cannon always suffers a single glancing hit."
It seems that as your only drawing one line, that one vibrocannon is hitting. In the case of the vibrocannons on infantry, the others increase the STR of the hit -- but I see nothing about vehicles.

I looked through the FAQ. Is there another place that confirms that all 3 vibrocannos count as glancing?

Well, vibrocannons are very vulnerable. The enemy will target them early if necessary. Moreover, they compete with all the other units in the HS section.

Frankly, I'm a bit disappointed about these rule changes for Eldar. The prospects are not very good since Eldar is largely based on synergy.

-Eldrad rolling on Divination is very good. Auto-include for me.

-Starcannons got stronger with the ability to target models outside of cover.
-Reapers got stronger with the ability to target models outside of cover.

-Wraithlords are characters and can snipe/challenge. Many possible weapon Loadouts...

-I think Walkers/Reapers/Wraithlords will be common, won't see the Heavy Support Vehicles.

-Tank Hunter re-rolls to penetrate.

-Can Pre-measure everything. This helps a lot with Eldar.

-Stronger focus on infantry in the Meta and away from Mech-spam which Eldar struggled with.

-Waveserpent move and shoot turret+underslung Shuricannon, recieves 5+ jink save.

- You can ally a voidraven bomber for a flyer, and DE warriors have rapid fire guns - far better than Guardians.

These are the units I think have gotten better
* Pathfinders Being able to place precision shots at range is very strong.

* Harlequins.....Shroud and Stealth means they have a 4+ cover save in the open, dropping to a 2+ in woods. Rending is still AP2.

* Wraithlords...They gained new abilities, and kept all their old ones. Unlike other MCs, their impact hit is STR 10.

* Warlocks......Being level 0 psykers means they can deny the witch on a 5+. Wytchblades did get a nurf, but they still tear up most vehicles.

* Avatar...........For the same reason as the Wraithlords

* Eldrad...........I did not think it was possible, but being a lvl 3 psyker that can trade out 4 powers is huge.

* Dark Reapers...As mentioned, they can target outside cover -- and they can hold objectives on some missions.

* Banshees....Model power axes on all your banshees. Your squad strikes at I10 and at STR 4.

* Guardian Jet Bikes.....These can move incredibly fast -- excellent for taking objectives late game.

* Shining spears......They get impact hits. They can move very fast. Their still extremely overpriced.


These units have gotten better and worse
Falcons + Wave Serpents
* They get a 5+ jink save.
* They all can move 18" in the shooting phase instead of shooting.
* They can move 12" and shoot 2 guns, which is perfect for those underslung cannons or both falcon guns.
* They are more fragile with hull points. You can't just hide in your transports all game any more.
* STR 6 spam is better now that you can glance to death via hull points.


These are the units that I think have gotten weaker
* Nightspinners....being able to take armor saves vs dangerous terrain tests lowers the effect of these.

* Guardians.........Where all other basic troops with rapid fire weapons got a boost, guardians are bottom of the barrel.

I'm thinking wraithlords got a bit more fun with Fear and issuing challenges and now I can run 6 at 2000 points.

So did anyone else pick up on this sad tidbit:

6e Rulebook, p. 67:

A Psyker cannot attempt to manifest the same psychic power more than once per turn- even if the manifestation attempt is not successful

Eldar Codex, p. 28:

Farseer Psychic Powers: Unless otherwise noted, these powers work as described in the Psychic Powers section of the Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook...

I guess this means an end to casting Fortune or Guide on multiple units without two Farseers. :(

Loch wrote:So did anyone else pick up on this sad tidbit:

6e Rulebook, p. 67:

A Psyker cannot attempt to manifest the same psychic power more than once per turn- even if the manifestation attempt is not successful

Eldar Codex, p. 28:

Farseer Psychic Powers: Unless otherwise noted, these powers work as described in the Psychic Powers section of the Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook...

I guess this means an end to casting Fortune or Guide on multiple units without two Farseers. :(

I didnt think you could do that anyways.

Also...I mistakenly read "stealth" as "scout", so no outflanking Harliequins.

Griever wrote:

Flavius Infernus wrote:With overwatch, probably nobody's going to want to charge a unit of 20 guardians.

If it's true that AP2 adds +1 to the vehicle damage table, Wraithcannons, brightlances and pulse lasers (and starcannons) all get an antitank bonus.

Depending on how artillery rules have been changed, batteries of dirt-cheap shadow weaver shots, with the whole template now str6 against vehicles, might become a decent choice again.

Even though they're expensive, starcannons might become the go-to gun again for taking down terminators.

20 Guardians kill 1 Space Marine at BS 1. That's not scary at all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thanks to the person who pointed out the benefit of allying with DE giving Eldar WWP's! This had never crossed my mind. As much as the idea of "allying" DE and Eldar together make me sick, I can easily convert an Archon to be a Corsair Prince or something.

Not being able to assault out of a WWP isn't really that big of a deal since Footdar isn't awesome at assault anways. This just gives a Footdar list some more flexibility with deployment, and can help in matchups against long range gunlines that the shorter Eldar weapons have issues dealing with.

not being able to assault out of the webwayportal kills the build, it isnt viable without that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Loch wrote:So did anyone else pick up on this sad tidbit:

6e Rulebook, p. 67:

A Psyker cannot attempt to manifest the same psychic power more than once per turn- even if the manifestation attempt is not successful

Eldar Codex, p. 28:

Farseer Psychic Powers: Unless otherwise noted, these powers work as described in the Psychic Powers section of the Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook...

I guess this means an end to casting Fortune or Guide on multiple units without two Farseers. :(

Eldrads staff overides the BRB.


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labmouse42 wrote:These are the units I think have gotten better
* Pathfinders Being able to place precision shots at range is very strong.

* Harlequins.....Shroud and Stealth means they have a 4+ cover save in the open, dropping to a 2+ in woods. Rending is still AP2.

* Wraithlords...They gained new abilities, and kept all their old ones. Unlike other MCs, their impact hit is STR 10.

* Warlocks......Being level 0 psykers means they can deny the witch on a 5+. Wytchblades did get a nurf, but they still tear up most vehicles.

* Avatar...........For the same reason as the Wraithlords

* Eldrad...........I did not think it was possible, but being a lvl 3 psyker that can trade out 4 powers is huge.

* Dark Reapers...As mentioned, they can target outside cover -- and they can hold objectives on some missions.

* Banshees....Model power axes on all your banshees. Your squad strikes at I10 and at STR 4.

* Guardian Jet Bikes.....These can move incredibly fast -- excellent for taking objectives late game.

* Shining spears......They get impact hits. They can move very fast. Their still extremely overpriced.


These units have gotten better and worse
Falcons + Wave Serpents
* They get a 5+ jink save.
* They all can move 18" in the shooting phase instead of shooting.
* They can move 12" and shoot 2 guns, which is perfect for those underslung cannons or both falcon guns.
* They are more fragile with hull points. You can't just hide in your transports all game any more.
* STR 6 spam is better now that you can glance to death via hull points.


These are the units that I think have gotten weaker
* Nightspinners....being able to take armor saves vs dangerous terrain tests lowers the effect of these.

* Guardians.........Where all other basic troops with rapid fire weapons got a boost, guardians are bottom of the barrel.

Interesting points, thank you for posting this.




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wuestenfux wrote:

djones520 wrote:Anyone else thinking Holofields aren't going to be worth the points anymore?

Well, it appears that they are only in use when the tank get a penetrating hit. For a glancing hit, no roll on the chart is made. So three glancing hits and the tank is dead; the holofield comes not into effect.

holofields are 100% a dead and bad upgrade :(


Automatically Appended Next Post:

spackledgoat wrote:I was reading the psychic power section and the book makes it very clear that a psyker must have LoS to the target. Specifically mentioned is being inside of a transport. Does this stop a farseer from casting fortune and guide at friendlies from a serpent or do we have a specific line somewhere that allows us to do so?

Only shooting psychic powers require line of sight, Fortune and Guide are not shooting psychic powers, so they dont require LOS.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Exergy wrote:

Griever wrote:
Thanks to the person who pointed out the benefit of allying with DE giving Eldar WWP's! This had never crossed my mind. As much as the idea of "allying" DE and Eldar together make me sick, I can easily convert an Archon to be a Corsair Prince or something.

Not being able to assault out of a WWP isn't really that big of a deal since Footdar isn't awesome at assault anways. This just gives a Footdar list some more flexibility with deployment, and can help in matchups against long range gunlines that the shorter Eldar weapons have issues dealing with.

keep reading, the DE faq says allies cannot come out of the WWP

That would of made a really cool aspect to the game, but whatever GW.............

I know its sad that Imperials can now take Farseer with Runes of Warding, with Pathfinders, and a Squad of Fire Dragons in a Wave Serpent is a bit daunting, especially if you are Eldar fighting Space Marines with Eldar allies (lul what?).

But look on the bright side. We are buddies with the Tau and what do the Tau have? Marker lights and Broadsides. For the auxiliary we take a battle suit with 2 marker drones, missile pods, and targeting array. For troops we take 6 fire warriors and give their leader a marker light. Then we can take 8 pathfinders. Boom, no more cover for enemies. For the grand finale, take 3 broadsides. This way, we don't' worry about the cover saves on the board. And so far, the only S 10 AP 1 heavy that we have is taking 2 Fire Prisms. If we take Broadsides, we get 3 twin linked S 10 AP 1 shots AND we get 3 HS slots available. The Tau only comes out to around 725 points. Not a bad deal in a 2K game.

Then for the Eldar side, take Eldrad hands down. Take 2 5-man pathfinders for the troops. Take some Banshees and Fire Dragons in wave serpents for your elites. This still leaves you about 250 points if you want to take Yriel for Challenge lulls (Eldrad and Yriel both say that they ignore armor, not having power weapons so they can still take down terminators). Or you can take swooping hawk for their Haywire. Haywire got a massive buff. After hitting the vehicle you just need to not roll a 1 to glance it. Roll a 6 for a penetrating hit. If a tank didn't move, it gets auto hit. If it did move, you hit on a 3. 3 Haywire means byebye to most tanks out there. 4 for a Landraider. I think intercept allows us to hit flyers on a 4+. Take 10 Swooping Hawks and on average thats 5 grenades going off. Byebye flyer.

So yes, I'm peeved that others get Eldar, but look at it this way: use marker lights to light up that Wave Serpent witth the Fire Dragons so that there's no cover saves. Shoot 3 twin linked rail guns into it. You only need a 2+ to glance it. 3+ to pen it. So if you're lucky and hit with all rail guns and roll all 2+, thats the dead dreaded fire dragons coming at you.

So in a way, I'm very glad Eldar are buddies with the Tau.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hang on, pathfinders need a Devilship to go along with them, so it'll cost more than 725. That or take stealth teams.

Expect the broadsides are going to be str 8...

Railguns are still S: 10 AP: 1 in the reference table. Do they no longer have rail guns?

I also belive the tau codex only tau can take benefit markerlights. I don't have my codez in hand though.

Hey all, I went and got a login just to say...

SkyHawk wrote:Take some Banshees and Fire Dragons in wave serpents for your elites.

The Banshees part sounds like a bad taste joke... in 6th ed, even if a transport hasn't moved, you can't disembark and then assault in the same turn. Banshees in transports are unfortunately absolutely useless until the Eldar get assault ramps, if they ever do...

SkyHawk wrote: I think intercept allows us to hit flyers on a 4+.

Sadly I don't think that's true either. There's nothing in either the Eldar codex or the FAQ to suggest it.

I'm curious about Imperium armies taking Farseers for RoW... will the RoW nerf their own psykers as well? (if they have them?)

RoW: "All enemy psykers roll an extra d6..."

Allies of convenience, "Units in your army treat Allies of Convenience as enemy units..."

If an Imperial army takes a Farseer to a tournament, chances are they wont be taking their own psykers as well if my reading of this is correct... any thoughts?

SkyHawk wrote:Railguns are still S: 10 AP: 1 in the reference table. Do they no longer have rail guns?

Against Wave Serpents they'd still be str 8. I guess I should have qouted the direct comment.

stuffah wrote:Hey all, I went and got a login just to say...

SkyHawk wrote:Take some Banshees and Fire Dragons in wave serpents for your elites.

The Banshees part sounds like a bad taste joke... in 6th ed, even if a transport hasn't moved, you can't disembark and then assault in the same turn. Banshees in transports are unfortunately absolutely useless until the Eldar get assault ramps, if they ever do...

SkyHawk wrote: I think intercept allows us to hit flyers on a 4+.

Sadly I don't think that's true either. There's nothing in either the Eldar codex or the FAQ to suggest it.

Yeah, forgot about the no assault if you didn't ride a assault vehicle. That's scratches out. Tau and Eldar are Battle Brothers so they're treated as friendly units, meaning marker lights can affect them right?

And for intercept, it says, "In assaults they never require worse than 4+ to hit a vehicle." (35 of Eldar codex). A flyer is still a vehicle so wouldn't the rule still count?


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djones520 wrote:

SkyHawk wrote:Railguns are still S: 10 AP: 1 in the reference table. Do they no longer have rail guns?

Against Wave Serpents they'd still be str 8. I guess I should have qouted the direct comment.

Oh right forgot about that. Well, let's hope imperials don't know how to use a Wave Serpent. ^_^

slice'n'dice wrote: Allies of convenience, "Units in your army treat Allies of Convenience as enemy units..."

Excellent spot there! Until there's a FAQ ruling (if one ever comes out, of course), I'd say your interpretation is right. Seems a good thing too, since if I'm playing Eldar I don't want to keep having my own Farseers shut down by random allied ones...

slice'n'dice wrote:I'm curious about Imperium armies taking Farseers for RoW... will the RoW nerf their own psykers as well? (if they have them?)

RoW: "All enemy psykers roll an extra d6..."

Allies of convenience, "Units in your army treat Allies of Convenience as enemy units..."

If an Imperial army takes a Farseer to a tournament, chances are they wont be taking their own psykers as well if my reading of this is correct... any thoughts?

I guess that's true.
The only other possibility is RoW affecting farseer that holds it, since HE is the enemy, while imperial psykers remain unaffected.. I will have to read all the rules when I'm home, but that would be hilarious..

SkyHawk wrote: And for intercept, it says, "In assaults they never require worse than 4+ to hit a vehicle." (35 of Eldar codex). A flyer is still a vehicle so wouldn't the rule still count?

Problem is the rulebook says zooming flyers can't be assaulted at all. Hovering ones act like Fast Skimers, though, so I guess you can get them on a 3+.

stuffah wrote:

SkyHawk wrote: And for intercept, it says, "In assaults they never require worse than 4+ to hit a vehicle." (35 of Eldar codex). A flyer is still a vehicle so wouldn't the rule still count?

Problem is the rulebook says zooming flyers can't be assaulted at all. Hovering ones act like Fast Skimers, though, so I guess you can get them on a 3+.

Not when the rule book says, that you can NOT assault flyers while they are Zooming.

The rulebook says no assaulting.

Your codex says hits vehicles on a 4+.

But you can't hit something if you are not allowed to assault it.


Now you can throw a Haywire grenade at it and pray for a 6.

A little change I haven't seen mentioned yet... Stealth now gives Rangers a 6+ cover save if they're out of cover, so it seems like Pathfinders should always have a 5+. Also, if they're moving for some reason they can fire Snap Shots, and if you do happen to get that 6 (with the new improved version of Guide, maybe?) it will be AP1.

Not that they should be out of cover or moving anyway, but still, worth remembering...

I see your point. On a off not, I'm reading the psyker section and I do not see when we're suppose to cast the powers. For Eldar powers it's at the beginning of the turn. So for the others it's whenever I want? Also what is the cost of our spells? 1 charge?

Guardian jet bikes are also worth a second look.

If you take 4 of them, you can always regroup, as you will always have at least 25% of the base models in the squad.
Take 3 guardians and 1 warlock.

Now you have an extremely fast moving scoring unit. You can use this to tear up vehicles. While wytchblades got a nurf vs armor (down to STR +2d6) they hit vehicles now 2/3 of the time -- so a wytchblade will get 1 penetrating hit on average vs vehicles.

These 4 models clock in at 116 points with embolden.

labmouse42 wrote:Guardian jet bikes are also worth a second look.

If you take 4 of them, you can always regroup, as you will always have at least 25% of the base models in the squad.
Take 3 guardians and 1 warlock.

Now you have an extremely fast moving scoring unit. You can use this to tear up vehicles. While wytchblades got a nurf vs armor (down to STR +2d6) they hit vehicles now 2/3 of the time -- so a wytchblade will get 1 penetrating hit on average vs vehicles.

These 4 models clock in at 116 points with embolden.

Well, the regrouping property is nice. But I'll stay away from this extreme fragile unit, one penetrating hit per turn is not enough.

Remember that 5/6 of the missions are objective missions of one kind or another (the relic is a moveable objective or '40k bloodbowl')

As such fast moving MSU scoring units I think will be very strong.

I plan on playtesting with 24 bikes in an eldar army this coming weekend to see how it does. It might suck, but sometimes you won't know until the models hit the table.

SkyHawk wrote:Railguns are still S: 10 AP: 1 in the reference table. Do they no longer have rail guns?

In your hypothetical story you were shooting Railguns at a wave serpent....so yea they are str8 due to the energy field.

wuestenfux wrote:Well, vibrocannons are very vulnerable. The enemy will target them early if necessary. Moreover, they compete with all the other units in the HS section.

Frankly, I'm a bit disappointed about these rule changes for Eldar. The prospects are not very good since Eldar is largely based on synergy.

How vulnerable? They don't need LOS which means they can completely hide from the enemy and now it's a T7 2 wound monster that benifts from cover easier and fortune to reroll the save. Nothing can come on the back board edge to assault it anymore since you can't assault out of reserves.

It's the number one vehicle killer in the game right now. Heck Eldar are the number one vehicle killing army in the game right now. Str 6 weapons will glance the vast majority of tanks in the game and the Eldar can put out more str 6 multishot guns than any other codex.

slice'n'dice wrote:I'm curious about Imperium armies taking Farseers for RoW... will the RoW nerf their own psykers as well? (if they have them?)

RoW: "All enemy psykers roll an extra d6..."

Allies of convenience, "Units in your army treat Allies of Convenience as enemy units..."

If an Imperial army takes a Farseer to a tournament, chances are they wont be taking their own psykers as well if my reading of this is correct... any thoughts?

this is hilarious

Smitty0305 wrote:

slice'n'dice wrote:I'm curious about Imperium armies taking Farseers for RoW... will the RoW nerf their own psykers as well? (if they have them?)

RoW: "All enemy psykers roll an extra d6..."

Allies of convenience, "Units in your army treat Allies of Convenience as enemy units..."

If an Imperial army takes a Farseer to a tournament, chances are they wont be taking their own psykers as well if my reading of this is correct... any thoughts?

this is hilarious

Heh...they get what they deserve for trying to take Eldar allies to exploit RoW

DarthDiggler wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:Well, vibrocannons are very vulnerable. The enemy will target them early if necessary. Moreover, they compete with all the other units in the HS section.

Frankly, I'm a bit disappointed about these rule changes for Eldar. The prospects are not very good since Eldar is largely based on synergy.

How vulnerable? They don't need LOS which means they can completely hide from the enemy and now it's a T7 2 wound monster that benifts from cover easier and fortune to reroll the save. Nothing can come on the back board edge to assault it anymore since you can't assault out of reserves.

It's the number one vehicle killer in the game right now. Heck Eldar are the number one vehicle killing army in the game right now. Str 6 weapons will glance the vast majority of tanks in the game and the Eldar can put out more str 6 multishot guns than any other codex.

Well, I generally play on tables (also at GW stores) which hardly allow to fully hide batteries.

The number-one vehicle-killing army in the game is Necrons, hands down.

Read through all the comments and their are alot of good thoughts on how to play our pointy ears now. I really like the idea of tau allies helping us ignore cover. That is spectacular. Taking 4 farseers at 2000 points is also a great idea.

I wrote up all the info I could think of regarding eldar in 6th edition last night over here...

http://eldarandtheghostsofrazgriz.blogspot.com/

Some things were covered in these posts but three are also other stuff that wasn't mentioned. I made up a list of every unit and what I thought 6th edition was doing for it.

All in all, I dont think we got worse, just maybe a change of tactics.

I guess Star Engines are the Surprise Assault of this edition, in that you can pay points for something the unit can already do.

DarknessEternal wrote:I guess Star Engines are the Surprise Assault of this edition, in that you can pay points for something the unit can already do.

Flicker fields for Dark Eldar are completely useless do to jink as well.

Razgriz22 wrote:I really like the idea of tau allies helping us ignore cover. That is spectacular.

You may want to check if allies can use Tau markerlights

Razgriz22 wrote:Taking 4 farseers at 2000 points is also a great idea.

Lol I collected every foot farseer in the seer council, now I can use 3 farseers and eldrad / yriel

severedblue wrote:

Razgriz22 wrote:I really like the idea of tau allies helping us ignore cover. That is spectacular.

You may want to check if allies can use Tau markerlights

Battle Brothers are counted as being friendly units for the purpose of targeting with psychic powers, abilities, and so on. Tau Codex reads tat only tau Units may expend markerlights. Does the clause under battle brothers allow eldar to expend markerlights? Maybe? but probably not. The tau FAQ has a section for the markerlight but doesnt say anything about a battle brother using it. So I'd say probably no. But that "abilities and SO ON" part makes me think yes.

Razgriz22 wrote:My apology, That was just what it seemed from what you were saying.

The only point I am trying to make is that we can't just throw Eldar in dumps just yet. There seems to be plenty of viable options in 6th for them to try and test.


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And on the ranger/ pathfinder debate... I will be starting to take them in my list as a replacement for guardians that I had doing similar things. I dont think they are the most amaizng troop choice available, but when compared to guardians, the are gold. Now about the upgrade being worth it or not to pathfinders... thats a tough one. Is the scout, ignore difficult terrain, +2 on cover saves (shrouded is the new term i think?), and AP1 on 5-6 roll worth it? Im still on the fence over it. I think I'll play a few games with both and see if the extra 50 point is worth it else where or invested with the pathfinders.

Okay.

Pathfinders are still the way to go. Their damage output might be higher than in the 5th ed since we'll see more footslogging units. But watch out for cover-save ignoring weapons from deep striking or outflanking units, Whirlwind, or Thunder cannon.

Took rangers today - combined with doom, they were quite effective. Even in my second game vs. orks without doom, fairly effective. The combination of poorer cover saves and allocate + ap1 to wound on 6s is very powerful.

I can see taking the pathfinder upgrade.... sometimes. Larger units in larger games, i think it is worth it. When playing north of 1750, its probably a requirement, just so they can weather the generally stronger fire coming their way. But in 1000-1750, regular rangers are probably fine.

Area terrain + rangers is still a 2 up cover with go-to-ground.

Used pathfinders in a blob with Maugan Ra and Eldrad. Also Vibro cannons today.

In a fight with Tau after three turns of 90 percent of the tau army shooting at the snipestar... I lost one pathfinder, and one wound on Ra. Ra was in front soaking up most shots with his 2+ armor. Anything AP2 was looked out to the pathfinders with their 3+ cover. (I had no ruins to hide them in, just a bunch of rocks.)

The vibro cannons had a couple of good line up shots and glanced multiple tanks in a row. A it with a vibro cannon is an auto glance. I usually rolled two hits out of the three, getting double glances scared his tanks awy pretty quick.

Second game I played, my IG and Tau opponents were so worried about the vibro cannons they sat in the corners with all their tanks, pinned in and unable to really get at us. My team mate and I were really able to attack where we liked.

Thunderfrog wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I read Stelek's comments on the new Eldar. He's pretty much right. Eldar is almost dead. The buffs do not balance the nerfs.

They are not unplayable but unwinnable in stronger tournaments.

I guess Stelek was only responsible for the top part. The second assertion was your own.

By the way, I think even Stelek could approve of this unit.

Eldrad, Farseer with SS/RoWit/Fortune and Doom.

8-10 warlocks with various loadouts, l like 3 destructors.

Dark Eldar Allies: Archon with Shadowy Field, Blaster, Venom Blade, Haywire Grenades x2, 5 Kabalite Warriors x2


You can Footslog Eldrad, the Farseer, and the two Archons with the 10 guardians across the board. Put two archons in the front of the unit and Eldrad and the other Farseer in the middle.

Every model in this unit is a character. Whenever shots come your way, anything that won't cause ID is transfered to the Archons, who have rerollable 2+ invulnerable saves... until they fail them, they eat wounds like mad. then you can push wounds to eldrad for his re-rollable 3+ .... then you can just start taking that TERRIBLE 4+ rerollable invul when you don't feel like risking characters anymore. Against vehilces you have 2 18 inch STR 8 AP 2 lance shots, plus at least 3(in my own army) 12 inch Str 3 + 2d6 Singing Spears. Not to mention, thanks to the Embolden lock, you can reroll failed leadership checks, including failed 3d6 pysker rolls. AND even if the enemy manages to cast a psyker power on you through the 3d6 RoWard, you will usually have a 4+ Deny the Witch thanks to Eldrad having a higher Psyker Mastery level than all but like 3 other models. (6+ base and a +2 bonus.)

Getting this unit in combat is just curtains, even against terminators. 38 attacks that reroll misses and reroll failed 2's to wound and force the opponent ( Well, with a better than 4/7 chance to get this power and assuming they fail their 6+ deny the witch) to reroll successful saves?

Thats an average of 33 hits and about 6 dead termies, not counting Eldrads staff which ignores armor saves but isnt a power weapon.

Can someone please link this supposed post of Steleks that implies Eldar are now somewhat less then viable? I can't find anything newer then 2009 of his using the search function.

I'd love to see that on the table! How many points though for all that? Only problem I see is fast armies dodging around it. Granted they wouldnt be able to kill it, but be able to snag objectives faster. But still that unit is a walked ball of death.

836 points. I still have room for 2 aegis defense lines, rangers, FD in serpents, DA in serpents, and 2 fire prisms.

Thunderfrog wrote:

I'd love to see that on the table! How many points though for all that? Only problem I see is fast armies dodging around it. Granted they wouldnt be able to kill it, but be able to snag objectives faster. But still that unit is a walked ball of death.

836 points. I still have room for 2 aegis defense lines, rangers, FD in serpents, DA in serpents, and 2 fire prisms.

Now that seems like a solid list. I hope you get a chance t run it as I'd like to hear how it plays. My planned lists to try out are in the link in my sig. Let me know what you think about it. I hopefully will be trying one of them tomorrow if people show up to play at my local game store.

You can Footslog Eldrad, the Farseer, and the two Archons with the 10 guardians across the board. Put two archons in the front of the unit and Eldrad and the other Farseer in the middle.

Well, I don't like this tactics. Footslogging is a slow way to die.

Stelek's comments are here: http://yesthetruthhurts.com/2012/07/eldar-6th-edition-primer/

wuestenfux wrote:

You can Footslog Eldrad, the Farseer, and the two Archons with the 10 guardians across the board. Put two archons in the front of the unit and Eldrad and the other Farseer in the middle.

Well, I don't like this tactics. Footslogging is a slow way to die.

Stelek's comments are here: http://yesthetruthhurts.com/2012/07/eldar-6th-edition-primer/

Thanks. The USAF says I can't view that from work, so I'll check it out when I get home.

seapheonix wrote:
The vibro cannons had a couple of good line up shots and glanced multiple tanks in a row. A it with a vibro cannon is an auto glance. I usually rolled two hits out of the three, getting double glances scared his tanks awy pretty quick.

You do know you can only get one glance per tank per shot for the whole battery right? You can't glance a tank twice with the same battery in a single turn.

Lord Rogukiel wrote:

seapheonix wrote:
The vibro cannons had a couple of good line up shots and glanced multiple tanks in a row. A it with a vibro cannon is an auto glance. I usually rolled two hits out of the three, getting double glances scared his tanks awy pretty quick.

You do know you can only get one glance per tank per shot for the whole battery right? You can't glance a tank twice with the same battery in a single turn.

That's really a sad story.

To be only a little inflammatory:

Avatar. Still crap. Missiles love you.

Eldrad. Still overpriced. If you really have a hard-on for Invisibility, sure grab Eldrad and hope you get it. I’ll take Divination Is Good On A Normal Farseer for 500, Alex.

Really? Stelek is an idiot. Eldrad was basically the codex's best buy for for all of 5th edition (trailed closely by suicide fire dragons), and he still is.

Stuff like this:

Having a Warlock with enhance is critical for Guardians. F*** the rest.

makes me wonder if he even read the codex.

Rangers. Yeah yeah, oooh cover saves! Precision! They still suck unless you bring a big unit

I have empirical evidence from a game yesterday that you don't need to spend 240 points to get rangers to work out.

And this:

Dark Reapers. Still crap. S5 AP3 means dick when you can just torrent marines to death.

The eldar codex has real trouble torrenting anyone to death, as the only unit which can really do it anymore are AV10 vehicles taking a HS slot.

And how you can say that about dark reapers and then say this about wraithlords:

Wraithlord. He’s missile bait and las/plas bait. Bring if you want to field some kind of MC list, but since you can’t ally with anyone with access to MC’s in any but 1 slot, kind of pointless.

I mean, this is pretty clearly the age of foot units. As in, those missle launchers are coming from dev squads. So in one sentence you poo-poo an eldar unit designed to take out MEQ from 48" away, and in the next sentence you s*** all over a unit because those same MEQ squads can kill it. Does he have any concept how warhammer even works?

Its pretty clear how this works. Stelek goes from memory, forms a bunch of off-the-cuff not-actually-tested and poorly thought out opinions, and posts them. Then a bunch of people take them as gospel despite the fact that no one has ever verified they are true. Wtf Ever.

Maybe I just really love Eldrad, OR MAYBE he is just damn good. I take offense to someone saying he is crap due to how much of a champ he is. Yea yea everyone has different experiences but come on, unless you choose to use him horribly.... he cant be bad. I played against space wolves and he and a group of guardians took on a pack of terminators and Logan himself. Yea I didnt want that to happen but I had no choice. Eldrad held them off almost single handed until reinforcements arrived. I've had people hate him so much that they spent the entire game trying to kill him and his unit focusing all firepower available to him with no avail. He just rocks and I will not believe anything but that.

Razgriz22 wrote:Maybe I just really love Eldrad, OR MAYBE he is just damn good. I take offense to someone saying he is crap due to how much of a champ he is. Yea yea everyone has different experiences but come on, unless you choose to use him horribly.... he cant be bad. I played against space wolves and he and a group of guardians took on a pack of terminators and Logan himself. Yea I didnt want that to happen but I had no choice. Eldrad held them off almost single handed until reinforcements arrived. I've had people hate him so much that they spent the entire game trying to kill him and his unit focusing all firepower available to him with no avail. He just rocks and I will not believe anything but that.

Yes, that is totally true Eldrad just owns, in 6th I think he will do so more then ever.

Oh lovely memories of that game in 5th where he would pass all his saves and live until the very last turn where he blew up a land raider on an objetive^^

I really can´t understand how some people don´t like him.

Thunderfrog wrote:

Eldrad, Farseer with SS/RoWit/Fortune and Doom.

8-10 warlocks with various loadouts, l like 3 destructors.

Dark Eldar Allies: Archon with Shadowy Field, Blaster, Venom Blade, Haywire Grenades x2, 5 Kabalite Warriors x2


You can Footslog Eldrad, the Farseer, and the two Archons with the 10 guardians across the board. Put two archons in the front of the unit and Eldrad and the other Farseer in the middle.

Every model in this unit is a character. Whenever shots come your way, anything that won't cause ID is transfered to the Archons, who have rerollable 2+ invulnerable saves... until they fail them, they eat wounds like mad. then you can push wounds to eldrad for his re-rollable 3+ .... then you can just start taking that TERRIBLE 4+ rerollable invul when you don't feel like risking characters anymore. Against vehilces you have 2 18 inch STR 8 AP 2 lance shots, plus at least 3(in my own army) 12 inch Str 3 + 2d6 Singing Spears. Not to mention, thanks to the Embolden lock, you can reroll failed leadership checks, including failed 3d6 pysker rolls. AND even if the enemy manages to cast a psyker power on you through the 3d6 RoWard, you will usually have a 4+ Deny the Witch thanks to Eldrad having a higher Psyker Mastery level than all but like 3 other models. (6+ base and a +2 bonus.)
.

to get 2 archons your base army would have to be DE as allied detachements can only have 1 HQ

Exergy wrote:

Thunderfrog wrote:

Eldrad, Farseer with SS/RoWit/Fortune and Doom.

8-10 warlocks with various loadouts, l like 3 destructors.

Dark Eldar Allies: Archon with Shadowy Field, Blaster, Venom Blade, Haywire Grenades x2, 5 Kabalite Warriors x2


You can Footslog Eldrad, the Farseer, and the two Archons with the 10 guardians across the board. Put two archons in the front of the unit and Eldrad and the other Farseer in the middle.

Every model in this unit is a character. Whenever shots come your way, anything that won't cause ID is transfered to the Archons, who have rerollable 2+ invulnerable saves... until they fail them, they eat wounds like mad. then you can push wounds to eldrad for his re-rollable 3+ .... then you can just start taking that TERRIBLE 4+ rerollable invul when you don't feel like risking characters anymore. Against vehilces you have 2 18 inch STR 8 AP 2 lance shots, plus at least 3(in my own army) 12 inch Str 3 + 2d6 Singing Spears. Not to mention, thanks to the Embolden lock, you can reroll failed leadership checks, including failed 3d6 pysker rolls. AND even if the enemy manages to cast a psyker power on you through the 3d6 RoWard, you will usually have a 4+ Deny the Witch thanks to Eldrad having a higher Psyker Mastery level than all but like 3 other models. (6+ base and a +2 bonus.)
.

to get 2 archons your base army would have to be DE as allied detachements can only have 1 HQ

I humbly suggest you read the rulebook section on allies and the force org chart.

At 2000 points you can take a secondary allied detachment, doubling the numbers allowed. It must be from the same codex you already have allies from.

If he wants to argue his views on Dakka, let him do it himself. Stop trying to do it by-proxy.

Lord Rogukiel wrote:

seapheonix wrote:
The vibro cannons had a couple of good line up shots and glanced multiple tanks in a row. A it with a vibro cannon is an auto glance. I usually rolled two hits out of the three, getting double glances scared his tanks awy pretty quick.

You do know you can only get one glance per tank per shot for the whole battery right? You can't glance a tank twice with the same battery in a single turn.

It says a hit by a vibro cannon causes an auto glance... If the battery rolls two hits, why wouldn't that be two glances? Or another way to argue it. A single hit allows all three to contribute to the strength of the shot, why wouldn't all three contribute to the glances?

"Roll to hit, (firer does not need to pick a target) If any of the vibro cannon hit, draw a single 36" line from one vibro cannon in any direction. Any line which the line passes through suffers D6 hits. For each vibro cannon in the battery after the first add 1 to the strength of these hits. For example a unit of three vibro cannons rolls a 1, a 6, and a 4 to hit; they would draw a single line from one of the cannon and any unit it touches takes D6 str6 hits.

A target with an armor value that is hit by a vibro cannon always suffers a single glancing hit; do not roll for armor penetration."

The second paragraph is simply telling you how to resolve a hit on a target with an armor value. Not how many times a battery hits. Another thing for the long list of FAQ's.

I don't actually see anywhere in the writing of the entry that would suggest it only causes one damage to a vehicle versus the numerous hits to a squad.

I personally am very excited about 6th edition and Eldar. Fast Skimmers an fire 2 weapons @ 12" (go Falcons and Vipers!), vehicle squads don't die from being immobilized (go Vipers, War Walkers), Large/Small Blast weapons hit anything under the template, no half strength for vehicles (go Fire Prism/Night Spinners/Tempest Launchers, etc).

I'm surprised no one's commented something awesome: Swooping Hawks destroy vehicles in assault. I mean, 1 Squad of 10 models gets an average of 6-7 hits, you'd be unlikely to roll more than two 1's on the armor penetration roll ... that means an average of 4-5 glancing hits. Ok, lets just auto kill any vehicle in the game if we can assault it.


................


My other personal musings are Vypers are better now (yay!). My once oft used EML/Shurken Cannon Vipers will probably be converted to dual Shuriken Cannon Vipers for 60 points apiece, that's great for move 12", get 6 s6 r24" shots. Also expect far more firepower, with always being able to take at least snapshots (So awesome!) if glanced.

Hammer of Wrath is neat, makes any Jump or Jetbike unit more dangerous for sure (Guardian Jetbikes enjoying the extra hit, as a seer council will, too). Eldar players may be converting some axes onto models to get that +1 S/Ap2 (though I guess most eldar entries say power sword, and the Faq didn't errata that).

seapheonix wrote:

"Roll to hit, (firer does not need to pick a target) If any of the vibro cannon hit, draw a single 36" line from one vibro cannon in any direction. Any line which the line passes through suffers D6 hits. For each vibro cannon in the battery after the first add 1 to the strength of these hits. For example a unit of three vibro cannons rolls a 1, a 6, and a 4 to hit; they would draw a single line from one of the cannon and any unit it touches takes D6 str6 hits.

A target with an armor value that is hit by a vibro cannon always suffers a single glancing hit; do not roll for armor penetration."

The second paragraph is simply telling you how to resolve a hit on a target with an armor value. Not how many times a battery hits. Another thing for the long list of FAQ's.

I don't actually see anywhere in the writing of the entry that would suggest it only causes one damage to a vehicle versus the numerous hits to a squad.

You quoted it yourself. "Single glancing hit".

On the issue of Vibro Cannons...Notice how they specifically mention wether they are talking about vibro cannon (singular) and vibro cannon battery (plural) throughout the entire description of how Vibro Cannons work. Too many people don't bother to learn how to read english. If you read it with proper english it clearly states that you get a glancing hit for A (singular) vibro cannon hit.

It doesn't say if the Vibro Cannon Battery hits...it says if a Vibro Cannon hits. Therefore you get more than just one glancing hit vs vehicles if more than one cannon hits, just like you get one more strength for each vibro cannon in the battery. If they wanted to say you get on glancing hit for the whole battery then they would have put the word "battery" in there instead of the phrase " A vibro cannon" .

Apart from being 100% wrong, you insulted people's supposed inability to read and then yourself failed at the task.

"For example, a unit of 3 Vibro Cannons rolls a 1, a 6 and a 4 to hit; they would draw a single line from one of the cannon..."

The reason it only talks about being hit by a single cannon is because only a single cannon in each battery actually causes the damage. You cannot physically cause 2 glancing hits on the same vehicle with a single Vibro Cannon battery, because there is only ever a single line per battery.

It wasn't an insult. It is an observation. If you take it as an insult that's your problem. And you saying I'm 100% wrong in this is only your opinion of how it works. It is no more valid an opinion than anyone elses on this forum including my own so don't go getting all high and mighty about it. You have no moral high ground.

Avatar 720 wrote:Apart from being 100% wrong, you insulted people's supposed inability to read and then yourself failed at the task.

"For example, a unit of 3 Vibro Cannons rolls a 1, a 6 and a 4 to hit; they would draw a single line from one of the cannon..."

The reason it only talks about being hit by a single cannon is because only a single cannon in each battery actually causes the damage. You cannot physically cause 2 glancing hits on the same vehicle with a single Vibro Cannon battery, because there is only ever a single line per battery.

Oh, and if only one cannon in the battery is causing damage then why does the strength of the attack go up for each cannon in the battery. After all, your assertion that only one cannon is causing the damage would mean that it can only be a strength 4 hit....and that clearly isn't how it is described.

Roadkill Zombie wrote:Oh, and if only one cannon in the battery is causing damage then why does the strength of the attack go up for each cannon in the battery. After all, your assertion that only one cannon is causing the damage would mean that it can only be a strength 4 hit....and that clearly isn't how it is described.

You get two bonus from having a battery rather than a single cannon
- +1 to strength for each cannon
- increased survivability (more than 1 cannon to kill)

Think of it as the cannons "combine fire" like a Prism Cannon. It doesn't make sense in terms of "fluff" but it IS the RAW

As such you DO NOT get the following bonus
- multiple glancing hits from one battery

Passively increasing the strength =/= Causing damage.

GK Psyker Henchmen get +1 to the strength of their psychic attack for every psyker in the squad, and yet there is only a single attack being made; by your logic there should be an equal number of attacks to psykers in the squad.

Also, what about Fire Prism cannon links? If another Prism links and increases the strength and AP of another, then why are they not getting two blasts?

severedblue wrote:

Roadkill Zombie wrote:Oh, and if only one cannon in the battery is causing damage then why does the strength of the attack go up for each cannon in the battery. After all, your assertion that only one cannon is causing the damage would mean that it can only be a strength 4 hit....and that clearly isn't how it is described.

You get two bonus from having a battery rather than a single cannon
- +1 to strength for each cannon
- increased survivability (more than 1 cannon to kill)

Think of it as the cannons "combine fire" like a Prism Cannon. It doesn't make sense in terms of "fluff" but it IS the RAW

As such you DO NOT get the following bonus
- multiple glancing hits from one battery

Yeah, I understand the way you are reading it. But until GW actually comes out with a FAQ on the subject than it will always be up for debate, simply because it does say "A target with an Armour Value that is hit by a vibro cannon (notice it does not say vibro cannon battery here, it says vibro cannon) always suffers a single glancing hit."

That one line says "A" vibro cannon. In the entire description they are careful enough to differentiate between the battery and single cannons. Even when talking about the strength of a hit. Why all of a sudden would it change when talking about vehicles? It doesn't. People are just wishful thinking.

As a side note Vibro Cannon batteries in the old Epic Space Marine game were so powerful that they could topple titans in one round of shooting. They could bring down buildings by just shooting at them too.

No, it will never be up for debate. Since there is only a single line per battery, there can only ever be a single glancing hit per battery.

This is what you are either ignoring, or failing to grasp.

Avatar 720 wrote:Passively increasing the strength =/= Causing damage.

GK Psyker Henchmen get +1 to the strength of their psychic attack for every psyker in the squad, and yet there is only a single attack being made; by your logic there should be an equal number of attacks to psykers in the squad.

Also, what about Fire Prism cannon links? If another Prism links and increases the strength and AP of another, then why are they not getting two blasts?

The reason neither of those work the way Vibro Cannons do is because of how they are described in the books. Niether one says the GK Psyker Henchmen nor the Fire Prism gets extra attacks nor do they say they get an extra template. But the description for the Vibro Cannon DOES say it gets a single glacing hit for a vibro cannon. It doesn't say it gets that for the battery of vibro cannons, it says it gets it for "a" vibro cannon.

Sent off the question to GW. We'll see if and how they respond. Crossing the fingers I'm about to get three hits. Hee hee.

As to the fire prism cannon example. I would say that actually supports my argument. An additional tank has increased the damage caused. Your adding strength and lowering ap for every fire prism you ad in.

If the idea is the vibro cannon has increased strength but not hits, it should be that with more then one in the battery it becomes a penning hit. It's not written that way at all though, so that won't happen right now. New rulebook would be nice.

I am of course looking through rosy eldar glasses with hopes of making the best use of my old codex.

I'm not failing to grasp anything. It is most certainly up for debate.

Either way, it doesn't make a difference because you will continue to believe it works the way you see it and I will continue to believe it works the way I see it. Until GW actually comes out and explains it better in a FAQ or Codex update then we will just have to agree to disagree.

Okay, i'm going to try once more, using the most basic method I can.

You have a battery of 3 Vibro Cannons.

Each cannon in the battery successfully scores a hit.

A single line is drawn from one of the cannons.

This line passes over a model with an armour value.

The rules for Vibro Cannons targeting models with an armour value tell us that a target with an armour value that is hit by a vibro cannon suffers a single glancing hit.

Since there is only a single line coming from a single Vibro Cannon, the vehicle has been hit by a Vibro Cannon, and consequently suffers a single glancing hit.

You are not instructed to repeat this for the other cannons in the battery. You are not instructed to add any hits for other weapons in the battery. You are not instructed to draw anything more than a single line from a single cannon in the battery, and you are not instructed to inflict more than a single glancing hit.

Please tell me where, if anywhere, I lost you in this explanation.

Look. I already told you we will have to agree that we both disagree on the way they work. Since I don't know you personally and will probably never play you personally then there is no need to try to win me over to your way of thinking. It doesn't matter. People will have to decide for themselves how it works until we get a FAQ or a new codex (hopefully with a more clear way of explaining it)

What I can tell you is that this is not the only game Vibro Cannons have appeared in. In the Epic Space Marine game they work the way I think they work. They add more damage to vehicles when more vibro cannons are firing. They can even take out the leg of a titan and bring down buildings. But not if you are only firing one cannon. The more you add the more powerful it gets.

I was typing as you posted; I'm not omniscient, nor a clairvoyant, so I couldn't know that you had posted until I did.

That aside, Epic's rules have less than 0 weight in 40k; trying to justify your standpoint using a completely different game is laughable.

I wasn't justifying anything. I was mentioning them as a side note. Anyway, enough de railing the thread. back to 6th's effects on Eldar.

Read the full rules of the vibrocannon. Your roles "to hit" do not target anything, you just make a roll for each cannon. No matter how many hits you roll, you draw a single line from one of the cannons.
Now tell me how you figure which units were "hit" by the vibrocannon?
Not from the die rolls, because you're not targeting anything. It's by the line you draw from a SINGLE cannon, not a line drawn from each cannon that hits. The die rolls are only used to see if a line is drawn, not the number of lines and also to figure the strength of the attack. Since the strength of the attack has no meaning vs vehicles, it doesn't matter how many hits you roll over one. Since there is only ever one line drawn, there can only be one hit on a vehicle per round of firing by this battery of weapons.

I'm an Eldar player and even I wouldn't try to convince someone that my weapons could do more than the simple rules that govern them.

Ok, so how are foot Dire Avengers right now? Because I was thinking about having some two or three 10 man squads tooled up hard (dual-cats, defend, bladestorm).
I don't know if this is a -move but with current bladestorm + bladestorm on overwatch + defend those guys could do some damage and hold their ground.
Couple this with some Ranger support to try to snipe all the flamers and maybe a foot-council to be the anvil. Small units of Jetbikes/Vipers/Spiders to disable vehicles and harass, plus WW or WLs for heavy longer ranged support.
Or are they too fragile and in forthcoming foothammer won't last long to anti-infantry?

wuestenfux wrote:

You can Footslog Eldrad, the Farseer, and the two Archons with the 10 guardians across the board. Put two archons in the front of the unit and Eldrad and the other Farseer in the middle.

Well, I don't like this tactics. Footslogging is a slow way to die.

Stelek's comments are here: http://yesthetruthhurts.com/2012/07/eldar-6th-edition-primer/

Stelek is not an idiot. Stelek is the Rush Limbaugh of 40k. He sometimes has some good points, and has a strongly devoted following. He has the personality of sandpaper and occasionally makes statements that make you go
if you can stomach reading his posts or listening to his interviews, more power to you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Roadkill Zombie wrote:Look. I already told you we will have to agree that we both disagree on the way they work. Since I don't know you personally and will probably never play you personally then there is no need to try to win me over to your way of thinking. It doesn't matter

Here is where it does matter. If you go to the NOVA open, and try to use that ruling you may be in for a bit of a shock.

Tourneys are the baseline for why most of us argue rules. Who cares if your playing your buddy on a sunday afternoon. The only time it matters is when your playing competitively.

labmouse42 wrote:Stelek is the Rush Limbaugh of 40k.

I almost just spit my drink out all over my keyboard and monitor.

That's harsh dude.. but thank you for the laugh, that made my day.

Another plus for Swooping Hawks is that as there will be more emphasis on infantry, you'll have more targets for your deepstrike pie plate. I definitely see me trying them against IG.

Quick question, if you shoot (a haywire grenade) into a vehicle, and destroy it, can you then charge a different vehicle in the assault phase, effectively giving you a chance to damage/destroy 2 vehicles per turn?

Only if the new vehicle was part of a squadron with the now destroyed vehicle.

Yea I was about to say in most cases, no.

It seems plasma has become the new in thing from what I've seen, but what is the take on fire dragons these days? Are larger squads more viable now? Seems like a serpent isn't worth the points anymore.

Serpents are still great. I run 5 in all my lists from 1500 points. It's still a lot of focused shooting to bring down even 1 of them, and with Divination I always give the lead tank a 4+ invulnerable when I roll it up.

Not to mention it's a platform to carry 6 Str6 shots. I usually keep them beefed up with Prescience. Eldrad can usually keep two firing on all cylinders.

Fire dragons are still good. I usually bring a single serpent with a group of 6-9 these days. I either immediately beeline for whatever has an AV higher than 12/12/10 or use them as TEQ hunters.

But Eldar vehicles are still useful. I usually bring 2 prisms and about 3-5 other tanks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

seapheonix wrote: Seems like a serpent isn't worth the points anymore.

Remember, these aren't Rhinos. 12+ on the front and sides, Energy Shields, access to a 4+ invul for vehicles and 5+ jink saves, 4+ if flat out, and usually a 2/3+ during nightfight missions.

I think the Eldar ability to move, fire two guns at full BS and still get a jink save is what will be the saving grace of the book. Wave serpents, vypers, Falcons all with 2 guns running and gunning is where it's at. Maybe with some Tau allies to provide some higher AP, higher str shooting.

The foot list with DE allies seems like it will be strong as well. It's too bad you have to take Eldar troops, haha. But at least the Avatar will potentially make all your dark Eldar fearless

hey guys, first time posting....

i have a question about eldrad.... his staff says that he can use a third power if not locked in combat.... FAQ says he mastery 3.... does this means he gets to casts 3 powers every turn no matter in combat or not??? or does his staff now give him a possibility of casting a 4th power if not in combat???

silly 4th ed rules not making sense in 6th ed.....

Im fairly certain that now he can cast three powers whether locked in combat or not.

Four powers as he has spirit stones.

Staff gives him 2 powers to cast.
Stones give him 2 powers to cast.

I think that's right but I may be wrong.

Na, FAQ is fairly clear on Eldrad. The Psyker lvl 3 includes his bonus from Spirit Stones.

He start at 1 (like all farseers)
Stones bump to 2.
Staff jumps to 3.

Falconlance wrote:

labmouse42 wrote:Stelek is the Rush Limbaugh of 40k.

I almost just spit my drink out all over my keyboard and monitor.

That's harsh dude.. but thank you for the laugh, that made my day.

Well, I guess he is. His followers are even more so.

Thunderfrog wrote:Na, FAQ is fairly clear on Eldrad. The Psyker lvl 3 includes his bonus from Spirit Stones.

He start at 1 (like all farseers)
Stones bump to 2.
Staff jumps to 3.

Mastery level 3 but he can cast four powers no? Or at least the same one twice or something. I may just be wrong, don't have codex access right now.

Anyone one else notice that night spinner is a transport now? It says so in the reference area Fast, Tank, Skimmer, Transport. Has it always been this way? have I been out of the loop this whole time? either way, what the gak is the capacity on that thing so I can field mine.